Following part one of this post where I explained why boundaries are necessities, how boundaries are mostly taught through actions, how we teach people how to teach us, and how the core thread of human behaviour in relationships is acceptance and rejection, here are the next three:
5. Even if you don’t have boundaries, believe it or not, he does.
Whilst an assclown or Mr Unavailable will get no brownie points for their relationship style, when they manage your expectations down by blowing hot and cold, or manipulate you into corners, it’s because they have boundaries of their own that they don’t want you crossing. Rightly or wrongly, they do have boundaries and their ‘my way or the highway mentality’ plus their tendency to pull passive aggressive strokes where they appear to be doing as you ask only to do exactly what they intended, combine to keep you inside their boundary lines.
In poor relationships we soon discover how we have to tow the line if we want them to stick around and not be scared off (even if they could do with being scared off). They may not be big on words, but as I’ve repeatedly said, actions speak way louder than words and this is how they maintain their boundaries.
His boundaries aren’t necessarily about values – in a poor relationship it is often about ensuring that you don’t want, need or expect too much of him. When you cross the line and start treating him like he’s your boyfriend, a signal goes up and he reacts to this. Cue disappearing act or whatever his modus operandi is. Ignoring you, disappearing on you, or letting you think that speaking your mind is a bad thing are all master strokes on their parts.
What we fail to realise is that if we had some boundaries of our own, we’d feel the conflict of being involved with them much quicker and register it for what it is and opt out.
This is what makes the whole idea of not needing boundaries redundant – if you don’t, the other person will, only you’ll have to be super adaptable and you can only play by their often shitty rules.
6. If people believe there are no consequence to their actions, they continue with their behaviour – there has to be consequences!
One of the biggest trappings of women is that we consistently reward shitty relationship behaviour with more I love you’s and demonstrations of our love and commitment to the relationship.
You can’t be rewarding bad with good constantly, especially when repeatedly doing this yields the same crappy results! At some point you have to recognise the madness in treating someone good after they consistently treat you bad and expecting a different, better result each time!
There has to be consequences – If someone thinks that there’s no negative consequences to their crap behaviour, why would they stop? Why would they change? More importantly, if you’re not creating consequences, when do you get your signal to opt out? Even more importantly, why are there no consequences? I don’t mean pretend consequences where you repeatedly say you’re mad and done with him, but real ones where you say you’re mad, you recognise how inappropriate this is and way over your boundaries, and you actually cut him off?
It is not up to him to decide the fate of his own behaviour – it’s up to you. You can’t do the whole ‘If he doesn’t want to be around, why doesn’t he just leave? Why does he keep coming back?’ You need to be asking why you can’t end it and why you keep letting him come back when he persistently disrespects you.
7. NO isn’t a dirty word
Life…is not about saying yes all the time because saying yes to everything, again creates a lack of boundaries. Yes and No are opportunities to define your space and ensure that you put your welfare and best interests at heart. Many women don’t know how to say NO – that’s why they’re run ragged by work colleagues, family and friends who take advantage and men who recognise that they don’t recognise themselves as entities to be respected.
People operate within the boundary lines that you set.
Yes it would be nice if we could all have a common code of conduct with the expectation that people will be respectful and not take advantage, but it’s your responsibility to set the boundaries of your relationships, not theirs. If people hear yes from you all the time, they after a while take it as a given that it’s a yes. You can’t complain after you’ve said yes a thousand times that they didn’t recognise that you may not want to be or do the thousand and oneth thing!
NO is a combination of actions and words. You don’t need to bellowing it at every opportunity but if you don’t say it very often, you need to say it a hell of a lot more because if the reality is that by saying NO that the recipient of it will be uncomfortable around you and won’t want to play ball anymore, you know exactly where the land lies.
All of your adult relationships are a two way street. If people can’t hack that you say NO when their behaviour is inappropriate and can’t adjust to that, it is a sign that they are only comfortable with the relationship on their terms and where you get to be the agreeable, pliable one. Clearly, that can’t work and it’s not a very good indicator of how they see you.
Part 3 will be published on Wednesday is published now. Also read part one.
Your thoughts?
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Oh boy this is good !!!
So true – and VERY important to know HIS boundaries – as well as why our own and how each come into play !!!
And why putting up with his c**p gets us nowhere. And why it is better to leave him than think he will change when the behavior stinks.
Your site is so helpful, NML. I don’t know how you do it, day after day, but every time you teach me something valuable and necessary.
Thank you.
Loving Annie
however, it comes easy for men as, they dont think with their emotions like alot of women do.
Its hard to be emotional, as some of us where probably bought up by emotional, rewarding mothers. I know I was, Im excactly like her with men, pathetic!!! LOL love you mum you did your best. xx (but christ your such a victim) I love her really, but theres always a drama, she’s bounced from man to man all her life and the one she’s with now, I think he’s funny, no-way would I put up with his antics!!! but its moan moan moan, I reply ‘do something then, anything!’ her reply is that I just dont understand!!! Oh really? I look at her and think she comes from a position of weakness, come on ladies lets get it together and come from a position of strenghth and show the B*******s where to go. KatyB not happy!! awwwww. she will be!!!
LOl Ladies ladies ladie, I forgot to say, had chat with a mate, today, who dated a bloke last Feb, she didnt want to know at first, but he ardently chased her, I didnt like him within 20 mins of meeting arrogant git, anyway, talking of his boundaries contradicting yours 1st date out, he got drunk and spent the night showing other younger ladies his new tatooo, this would have had me running for the door, then he got so drunk he fell out of the club, was sick on my friends shoes and got in his car and drove himself home,yeah she carried on seeing him! but a few weeks later she was out racing with our other friends and was lil worse for wear, he turns up cops a strop, and never rings her again!!! talk about double standards, anyway she forgot about him, UNTIL today she gets a letter through her door, saying he wished her and her son a happy new year (where was the xmas card) and that he would forever hang his head in shame for the way he treated her! BOOHOO!!! she was fast onto that ERRRR ‘I think he’s run outta options’ she promises she wont be txting him to say ‘thats ok,dont worry’ he can sling his hook took his time 7months!!! what a sleaze bag. Girls you gotta laugh hvnt you. Its ok Shell said I could tell you all this, she looked at this website on Sun whilst here consoling KatyB and couldnt belive the misery that we allow men to cause.
Rules,
Whatts “cops a strop?” I don’t understand why he stopped speaking to her? And did he just now contact her after this incident? I’m confused?
Hey Gaynor, Im from the UK I take it your from the US? ‘cops a strop’ means gets sulky. He stopped speaking to her because she was a lil drunk with her friends on a girls day out, he turned up outta the blue on her day out. Then after that he disapearred for 7months until today!
Dont worry, my friend didnt even notice he’d gone!! She’s like that, men dont ruffle her feathers in the slightest.
Rules,
Your first ‘whilst’ was my initial clue 🙂
This clown waited 7 months to contact her??? Did he want to reconcile?
Sorry Gaynor, didnt mean to patronise you honey. LOL. But I hope the story shows what can happen when you have a strong feeling of ‘self’ it didnt ruffle her at all when he didnt call. Whether or not he wants to reconcile is not the point. Its how he’s done it, ME ME ME, feel sorry for me! YUK, Oh he did ring her in Oct at 3 in the morning drunk she told him where to get of then. Its slimy, he cant even face her. He’s a loser honestly, He thinks he’s all that, I promise he aint. He wears a flash watch and nice clothes but underneath he’s a drinker, who is in denial and worst he looks down his nose at everyone else who does, he likes young girls fawning over him, he’s an arrogant cock, my personal experience with him! This lady will not even give him the pleasure of a response, NO CONTACT. Thats a boundary, even though she let a few red flags go at first. I remember her saying to me after he’d cooked for her three times, ‘oh he’s very nice’ I said, as I walking out the door ‘oh yeah, lets wait and see shall we!’ a week later POOF gone!
We know he wants to reconcile. CREEP. Like my friend said he had his chance, he made a choice, errr live with it.
I can relate this all too well! My EUM did have boundaries and just as NML says “Like letting you think that speaking your mind was a bad thing” this gf’s is walking on eggshells. And I remember feeling so inadequate at times wanting to say something, knowing full well he would never stand for it and would discount me or my feelings. But in the low of the low times, I was affraid to walk. So I catered to his so-called boundaries and it got me no where. The relationship did not improve, and I sunk lower into despair.
So listen up to these wise words from NML in Part 1 &2. So many of us have been asking what are good boundaries? how do we go about setting some? Thank you NML, this gives it to us straight up. It’s one less excuse for those ladies still hanging on, and one more reason for those of us removed from the EUM to keep up the good work of NC and hold our heads up high. We can beat this thing and these losers. It’s a simple as the steps shared here!
Can’t wait for Part 3!!
LOL … I kept saying omg, omg to myself as I read this post, NML. It is what I am going through at this very moment. …
“When you cross the line and start treating him like he’s your boyfriend, a signal goes up and he reacts to this.” Yea, he dumps me. … Gives me about a month to cool off and comes back around saying nice things – but never the very thing that I want.
He pretends he never said the hurtful things he said when he broke up with me either. Just picks up with … “It’s lonely without you … dont you miss my comfy bed? … you are so good at loving me, why wouldnt i miss that? … you know me better than I know myself … dont you know by now that I am complicated?”
The list goes on and on. Every time I fell right back in line with what he wanted, just because I wanted him. I really cant think of another reason for doing it. Bleh!
Awesome NML!! I never took the time to see it like that before….”Even if you don’t have boundaries, believe it or not, he does.” I was too busy trying to figure out the meaning of the few scraps he threw my way!!!! All that manages to do now is p**s me off! The longer I’m on this site the more I learn and understand. Thanks ladies for your stories and brutal honesty….you truly are all gems.
Hi everyone. I can totally relate to this post. However, my problem now is that I am the one contacting him – I’ve absolutely BLOWN UP all of my boundaries. Can all of you on this site please please please bring me back to “earth.” I swore I wouldn’t contact him, but here I am in this state of “if only this” or “I’m sure he’s already moved on.” It’s like I want to torture myself even further by trying to find out if he’s actually seeing someone else. I hate how I feel at this moment.
Hey Chloe … I’m sorry. I know exactly where you are coming from. I’m not sure if there is a switch we can click and stop the tape that runs in our heads. I do the same questioning (usually at night in bed) and I let myself go through the loop for a while then, I have to make myself stop.
I try to wean myself down a little more each night. It’s like – okay brain, i know you’re going there – have at it – but only for a limited time. As the days go by with NC, the tape doesnt run as much.
I will also add that anger is very helpful in letting go. I spent the entire afternoon after I was dumped going over old IM’s and emails – good and bad. I calculated the number of “re-starts” over 2 years time. It was my way of purging.
Hope this helps a little. 🙂
I think the other piece I’m figuring out now that I am learning more and more about boundaries and especially how they (EUM) set boundaries with us. I could never figure out why other friends/family/coworkers were easy to talk with and they seemed to understand things I was conversing about. But this assclown never seemed to get it, and I thought it was because I didn’t explain myself well enough so what did I do? I overtalked with him and it still got me nowhere he just didn’t care enough to listen or care enough to want to work through stuff with me.
It’s all getting clearer and clearer each time I read more of this site and interact with all of you ladies. Things are just so much better now and it helps to have 5 months of NC behind me. Thank you NML and all the wonderful ladies who post here!
Chloe,
I’m sorry you’re having such a hard time going NC. What has stopped me from calling was thinking about what it would change if I actually called…nothing. He would just be cold and distant and my self-esteem would just be knocked even further. I think you’re actually going through withdrawals. You just have try and be ‘still’ through those panicky moments when you want to call and think about what you will accomplish by calling.
Mariposa – you’re right. He has been distant… now only responding via text, if at all. I think I’m more upset at what I know will never happen – a real relationship with this guy. If I do catch myself in one of these moments, I try to remind myself that we never really had a “real” relationship. So what am I missing? I’m missing those 2 or 3 nights a week that we “hung out.” I realized that my expectations were WAY OUT THERE compared to the reality of the situation. I’m not even sure when/why or how I let that happen. Maybe the “blowing hot” in the beginning was what did it. I do know that I feel like complete s**t right now… I feel like everyone knows what I’ve done in my desperate attempts to contact him. It’s embarassing.
Chloe- Don’t be embarrassed, especially here on this site. We’ve all been there or are going through something. Here is one thing which helped me get past the panicky stuff, anxious feelings. I found a song, a song I could sing in my head knew almost all the words to. It happened to be CAguilera “Fighter”. When I started to feel anxious I started to sing out loud (when alone) or in my head while driving, working, sitting at home, before bed, etc. I had read somewhere that singing a song in your head helps calm you when feeling angry, anxious, etc. Slowly, it worked for me.
There is no magic switch you can turn off, just find something to do, or someone to call, soon you will realize it is only a temporary feeling. It will pass and then the frequency between the anxious moments goes longer between.
Hugs!
Did anyone on this site le friendships, hobbies, or work take a back seat when they were with their EUM’s. I actually have a hard time doing anything “fun.” I let friendships slip – although in some cases that might have been a good idea since they were also his friends – and now, I’m the one alone while he moves on pretty much unscathed. I know that losing myself is my fault – not his. I guess I am more “screwed up” that I initially thought. The “why not me” phase has kicked in full throttle. One day at a time… One day at a time. thanks!!
New year/new boundries for all of us…Focus on being gratful for the things you do have in your life now Chloe. I am approaching 3 weeks of NC with the MM. I am so happy that I don’t have the drama in my life any longer. I am also focusing on the fact that he knows nothing about what is going on in my life. I have ignored his text messages and the baited questions he has sent my way all this time. I am rejoicing every week by giving myself something special and when I feel weak I call my best freind. If she is not there, I look at my note card tucked in my wallet with a list of all the heart break times. I also remind myself of the picture of him and his family on his wife’s Facebook page that he had taken at the same time he was telling me he was leaving her for the 10th time.
Wow chloe~ I really feel for you right now. In fact, use this moment to reinforce why NC is so important. You really have to be sick and tired of the knots in your tummy before you will be ready to let go. You more then likely won’t get the reaction from him that you desire so save yourself the heartache (and his ego stroke). Wishing the best your way…..
. If people believe there is no consequence to their actions, they continue with their behaviour – there has to be consequences!
This is me all over, I’d set some flimsy boundry tell him he had violated it and then do nothing just let him talk me round.. wow he must have thought what an easy mark I was and no wonder his behaviour never changed.
It has taken me 7 months to finally end it properly with this EUM after 16 months dating.. 7months to wake up and see it for what it is .. wish it had been sooner since that is almost two years gone..
Hopefully next time I will react quicker and have my boundaries firmly in place…
Hi Everyone…WOW!!! What a great post. It’s so true how these guys have their boundaries in place, but we are the ones who let them walk all over ours. I feel for you Chloe, I’ve been there…and the withdrawal is tough, just keep reminding yourself that you are worth more than a guy who doesn’t want a relationship and doesn’t respect your feelings. Try to find something to do when you want to call him or break NC. I know for me, I would feel so good after breaking up, relieved and proud of myself for standing up for myself and then a few days would go by and I would have that empty feeling inside…what we have to do is get past that emptiness and face our issues…the pain and uncomfortable feeling are hard to live with…that is why we sought the drama from these assclowns in the first place. I know I felt miserable with him, but I also felt miserable afterward too…but I believe that I have to sit with that emptiness so that I can see my own issues clearly and work on them without clouding my head with thoughts of the EUM. Thank you all of you for being a support here!!!! HUGS!
Tulipa…it’s two and a half years for me too…but let’s look at the bright side, at least we are seeing it clearly!
NML,
One aspect of “no is not a dirty word” and boundaries – is that a boundary is a rule. Many times that rule isn’t really clear to you or to your partner. Which means even a healthy partner may butt up against it several times.
For instance, turning down a dinner companion that wants more intimacy might mean, “No, not tonight” (not enough foundation, this wouldn’t be a boundary), or it might mean “No, I don’t know you well enough / we aren’t in a relationship / I don’t trust you enough yet / It seems too soon”. And you might not be clear, at the moment, why you turned down the request. Such a boundary will need to be revisited so you both understand what that boundary is. That is, through trial and error, maybe discussion, you and your partner work out the shape of the boundary.
And at each step, it is the “no” that defines something meaningful. “It is the dates she walks home from that define a girl’s character.” Don’t go out without cab fare home. (I may have read that somewhere.)
There are probably a few other words and phrases that can mean “no”. Like, “That felt rude.” “How is (saying) that supposed to help me respect you?”
Just keep the focus on the word or action – not the partner. Don’t let it get personal. “That felt rude” is about how his words or actions hurt you. “You are rude” would be about him, his character, his self image – and is much too wide a scope for him to attack from. Instead, “That felt rude” keeps the focus on what he did – where the boundary needs to be set. You want to be respected, we all need that. So someone being rude, especially our partner, is hurtful. We need to respond, to let them know what action or word is at issue, and why – “That felt rude.”
Boundaries can move over time. It is your responsibility to let your partner know when your boundaries move, your partner’s responsibility to let you know if his/her boundaries change. ‘No pets’ might become, ‘a small dog’. ‘No oral sex’ might become ‘I’ll try it once.’ ‘No I won’t try a threesome with another woman’ might become, ‘I see you really need that kind of sex frolic, hit the road and find someone that is interested.’ (Sorry, that last one was supposed to be a lame joke. But really. You won’t change his interest or obsession, you won’t have a happy relationship while he dwells on kinky stuff that doesn’t interest you. You need a partner that needs you in their life, not a willing body for a kink partner.)
Maybe, “boundaries are the walls that build a happy, healthy life”?
Chloe…..I completely understand when you say you lost yourself when you were with your EUM. I did the same thing, I turned my life upside down for him. Then two years later when he cheated on me and I kept breaking up and making up with him, he learned that my boundries meant nothing. That he could have me back anytime he wanted, while he was moving on with his life, seeing someone else but still pretending we were in a relationship, lying and stringing me along.
Finally when I saw the light and really stuck to NC I realized that I had to start over with my life whilst he had another gf, still had his friends, nothing really changed for him. It was totally seamless and I was left the wreck.
It taught me to never give your life up for any man. Never sit around waiting for phone calls or break engagements for them. In the end they won’t respect you and you’ll end up on the losing end. How attractive is it to have a gf that has no life? How much of an ego stroke do you think they get by having that kind of control over someone?
I’m now putting my life back together after two years of an EUM relationship. At least I learned some positive lessons about myself and how I want to be treated from now on. It’s just too bad I wasted so much time on him. Do yourself a big favor and don’t waste another second of your time on someone that doesn’t deserve you.
I especially love #5. It’s very simple and spot on.
I work with families and one of the first things that we tell parents is that they MUST implement rules and consequences for children’s behaviors, no matter the age.
Same shit applies to adults, ESPECIALLY men.
This whole post is good actually. I like how it was put that these assclowns have their own (sick?) boundaries. Looking back at my last relationship (yeah, we were young but that still doesn’t excuse his shitty behavior), he definitely had boundaries and made me feel bad whenever I expressed deeper thoughts when it came to the relationship. We were together for over 3 years and we never even said “I love you” to each other; I was afraid to say it because among other things, I was afraid it’d drive him away and I didn’t want any more rejection in my life. (There were other reasons too having to do with my own not-so-sweet upbringing, but that’s another story.)
My god, was that a childish, ridiculous, EU relationship…….
But I digress, got lost in thought. Thanks for this post. You learn something new every day. 🙂
Oops, I meant # 6, not 5.
My sis Mr. EU attempted to contact her after a year of staying silent. He let her phone rang once and hung up. Think he either wanted to make her believed that it was a mistake to dial her or he wanted a return call. My sis didn’t call… Although I know she misses him so much but she stayed with the NC. Somehow, I think the problem is my sis didn’t really impose boundaries in the relationship. She just believes that if a guy really cared for her he should know how to treat her right.Shouldn’t she tell the guy her expectations in a healthy relationship? Thanks for your help.
This is for Chloe as well as myself when I say this … you will be ready when you are ready and not a moment before. I learned that the hard way. I kept forcing myself to believe things (the truth) that I was just not ready to believe. Think of it as being brainwashed – no way you can recover from that in a day or two. It’s gonna take time. My best friend listened to me complain for 2 years about the A.Clown I was seeing – every time we broke up and I went back (ashamed) – she would say, “you will be ready when you’re redy and not a moment before.” She was so right. It has taken me a looong time to get over this and I’m still working on it. Good luck!
Aggggh! I’m guilty of not enforcing my boundaries and I’m taking steps to correct that oversight – not just with men, but in my relationships at work & with family.
What really stood out about this post is that the x-EUM had his boundaries. Before I used to talk compromise and wanted to discuss how to make the relationship work blah blah blah, but that only applies if the man is normal and committed to the relationship in the first place, and the EUM certainly wasn’t. Now I understand that Mr EUM was being true to his selfish, emotionally distant, self by maintaining his boundaries. Well, if he’s gonna stick to his boundaries, you can be dam sure I’m not budging from mine. My mistake was trying to *compromise*, but what happened is I disregarded my instinct and the last of my boundaries to adhere to his!
On the second charge of me not making Mr X-EUM bear the consequences of his actions, I’m guilty again. He would get a slap on the wrist or I would grimace and see the latest infraction as a stumbling block in the relationship to be fixed and overcome. Now I know better. I am so grateful for this post!
Chole, *Hugs* and I hope you find your way from that “place.”
Cynnie xoxox
You are completely right annied about being ready when your ready. I know that it takes even looooonger if we refuse to look at our own “stuff” (at least the case for me). How can you possibly know what a reasonable boundary is if you don’t even like yourself enough to push back??
Verbalizing (to myself) what actually makes me feel bad has done wonders. When I feel sad or mad I stop immediately and ask myself what has caused the feeling. It sounds crazy….but then I verbalize and explain the behavior (to myself, not him) and how it makes me feel. In doing this I have established enough foundation to begin my boundary or not (it’s still my choice)….the more I do it the better I feel about myself…feel more in control of my own life…which means yanking the plug on the A**clown!! Bless you ladies.
hey girls, you wanna know how weak Ive been, yeah here goes!!!! Once a guy stood me up… after saying he would cook for me and my son… I was in bed ill at the time… I trailed my arse down to the pub, he was wiv a girl he SWORE he had no interest in, some 19 yr old cocain taking slapper.. we had a row… the next day.. I went round his house and gave him a bottle of wine!!! that cost me over a tenner!!! Jesus talk about rewarding bad behaviour!!! lol, Yes I had a further 2 years of misery with that tosser too! Christ get me a gun!!
When I told my Hubby about it, he truly looked at me in utter disbelief!!! like is this the same woman?? cos Ive got the short end of the stick!!!! LOL we love and learn.
Please NML dont even say a word, I know I know. LOL I cant even believe it myself. Its so damn horrific my teeth are on edge just rembering it. KatyB Back at work, bawling over her desk!!! awwww. xxx Heres a bit of perspective for you all, A great great friend of mine was horribly diagnosed with breast cancer last week. If thats not the worst thing ever that could happen to such a wonderful creature, this is a warning to us all! For 1 year she has been running around, crying and having time of work because of some low life crack addled freak, she has not been looking after herself, she finally kicked it into touch and within one week of getting back to work after 5months of with depression. She found one lump and the hospital found afurther two. She didnt even know how long that lump had been there. When I say, it can be a matter of life and death, Imean it!!!! LISTEN UP. PLEASE. Loving you all. KatyB comin for tea.
I think Cynnie is right on with her comment about compromising. I know I did a lot of compromising – even when he was clearly at fault. Ican’t believe how “good” he was at managing down any expectation I had. His favorite word was “drama” as in any time I did something that upset me or he didn’t want to hear, I was a “drama” queen. After awhile, I started to believe that I was just that. How ridiculous that I allowed him to treat me like I was second rate. I think about the many times he totally blew me off for friends and when I did get upset he started with the “drama queen” shi**t. But right now, instead of getting mad about that I’m in the “why wasn’t I good enough” phase. What the hell is wrong with me?
Oh Chloe~ get over the I”m not good enough stuff because you totally are!! Instead get mad as hell….it will help.
Remember ladies~ We’re only as good as we say and/or believe. There isn’t a person on this blog that can convince us how great we are if we won’t believe it. It’s amazing but only we decide…we hold the key~
Metsgurl… you’re right. I need to stop wallowing in my own misery and start getting on with my life. Thanks for the comment… I need to get over myself.
Hey Chloe–
I know what you are going through. Some of this is really hard stuff. Try to remind yourself that it is a process…and yes getting mad certainly does help!!! I know I did the right thing in letting my EUM go– it was hard and it hurt having to let someone that I love go but I have realized through NML’s posts and this site that boundries is what is truly lacking as well as lack of self love. There are moments in which I still want to be with him and like you I wonder what the hell is wrong with me for wanting to be with someone who gave me soo little– and treated me soo poorly. I know for me reading the boundries section really put things into perspective. It made me realize that there HAVE to be rules– and that I shouldn’t feel bad for having them because they are there to protect ME and Honor who I am!! And in doing so— that is an act of SELF LOVE. We have to learn to stop putting ourselves second– for if we do— we will always be considered SECOND!!!! I have a quote that I put on my computer screen at work and it says: “NEVER MAKE SOMEONE A PRIORITY WHEN THEY ONLY MAKE YOU AN OPTION”…. I try to live by those words whenever I find myself wanting and thinking about him again. The hardest thing is realizing our worth and truly learning to love ourselves first– because it is true like NML says: That if we had a healthier self esteem we would not be accepting such poor behavior and or putting up with soo little. I know one of the things that kept me stuck was in thinking what i did wrong and in feeling that if only I could have done this or that differently– he would still be here. Try to get out of that mindset— and think more about the fact that you have had to put your foot down because someone has crossed a boundry— they don’t want to play fair and follow the rules— so they don’t get to play with you…….and it’s their loss not yours…..Im sure our rules aren’t soo hard to follow— its the fact that they want things THEIR WAY and THEIR WAY only that is the problem…. and that is not fair in any situation!!! Try to think of it in that sense…. who wants to play with someone who always wants to be the winner and never allows anyone else the same chance? The only winner I see here is YOU Chloe and me and all the other women on here who have decided that enough is enough!
Hope this helps. 🙂
How do you believe that you’re good enough? I know in my head that I’m great, but I don’t think my heart truly believes that. I’ve read self-esteem books and am going through therapy, but nothing seems to help. Maybe the break-up is just too recent. It’s been 3 weeks for me. Some days are better than others.
I know I have problems with boundaries. I let EUM walk all over me and when I finally spoke up he broke up with me, which really tells me how much he truly cared for me. Although I know the break-up wasn’t my fault I keep blaming myself. I can’t seem to stop. Now this past weekend he sent me a brief email asking how I was. Does he still want to see if he as any effect on me? It really messed me up and it was just a little stupid email. I get angry at that.
Hi All,
This is sort of off topic but, a young woman by the name of Broken posted on a much earlier post today about Married Men, her post is listed on recent posts and is really reaching out for help. I don’t have experience in the MM arena (although she would benefit from the current posts) except I feel her pain. Can someone reply to her please that would be much more experienced in dealing with the topic….Thanx…Gail
Mariposa~ the break up is pretty recent so I can identify with what your saying. Think of it this way….dealing with your stuff (ie what you believe/feel about yourself) has nothing to do with your current situation (or any guy). You can mourn the guy and still start the process of “getting strong”. My guess is that we can’t believe the truth about ourselves until we identify what the lies are?? If you’re anything like me, I can look back and see that I have a looooot of material to work with. Stay strong girl. Hugs
Mariposa – yes! that is all he is doing by sending you that stupid email! how are you doing? dont answer it. He wants to know that you are still miserable over him and if he senses you are weak, he will come back. But he will not come back the way you want him, trust me.
I’m only 2 weeks out and I expect in a month or two, my ex will come back and see if I’m “over him” and can now be his friend. Uh-huh. My yo-yo days are over.
Karen… thanks. Your comments do help.
Mariposa… It’s been almost a month and I am feeling like you are. But even when I did “conform” to what I thought would make him happy, it was good for awhile (for him) but I was miserable. It was a “damned if I do / damned if I don’t” situation for me. No matter what I did, he was never going to commit with “both feet” in this relationship. It’s time we stop beating ourselves up about it.
NML,
You are so right, and your words ‘If he doesn’t want to be around, why doesn’t he just leave? Why does he keep coming back?’ – these questions – I keep asking myself all the time…
I am so depressed, my EUM was begging me to meet him last week, even I was saying to him that I dont want to meet him for “cheap f””” and after his dozen messages and calls he finally persuaded me to meet him (after his three weeks desappearing act)!
Can you imagine, he didnt show up after all! He was sending me messages like :” I am expecting my food to be delievered and I will text you as soon as it comes”, “Cant wait to see you” etc.
I was waitng for 1 hour and finally called him. He didnt even bothered to pick up the phone and didnt call me back. JUST disappeared…Why Why Why they do that??? It’s always him who make arrangements, chasing and begging…HOW can I stop this MADNESS?
Mariposa, don’t answer him…we’ve all been there and you’ll just be miserable if you do…like Karen said, “they don’t play fair.” My ex EUM kept rearing his head after a few weeks or few months and I was always wishing things were different so I would respond…it was never different. If he had some epiphany, the email wouldn’t just sniff you out with how are you type of crap…The last time my EUM came back…he emailed with with happy holiday, how are you SNIFF SNIFF and I thought I could handle being just friends with him…it was just as painful as the relationship…Never again for me…not only do I need a boundary, I need the Berlin Wall to keep him out…they have a way of pushing our buttons…so please don’t give him the opportunity…you will have to start from scratch if you have any contact…I know for me it felt like breaking up all over again when I had to reinstate NC…it was 3 months when he contacted me and now that I started NC again it’s only 1 week…I’m much stronger now…but never want to go back..
We have to recognize our own worth…these guys are not worthy of a good woman…they are users, manipulators, liars and SELFISH…they have no problem walking all over us…We need to know we are strong, can love ourselves..XXXOO to all.
Alika – your EUM is the worst kind. That is just cruel and awful to do to you…he just needs to know that you are willing and that’s enough for him (an ego stroke), so he doesn’t NEED to show up. You need to NOT RESPOND and institute NC right away. Don’t get tricked by him again…obviously his word is crap and he doesn’t mean a word he says…he’s getting off on abusing you and making you jump through hoops…you are better than that!
Alika My EUM would make plans with me, then text me an hour before and say something like ” I need to get to bed early tonight for a big meeting tomorrow. Would you mind if we skipped seeing each other tonight?” So I would call him and he was at the bar with this friends – usually halfway to being completely drunk (and always high from smoking pot). I would ask why he needed to lie about hanging with the guys and he said “because I didn’t want any of your drama.” I usually replied with “You start the drama by lying in the first place.” That’s when I would get the “I think I need to take a break – possibly a few weeks.” And he would hang up, turn off his phone and have no contact with me. And to think I felt bad during that week of NC. Now, I’m starting to realize what an A-Hole he really was.
Alika~ I could just hug you right now. What a complete pr*ck!!
You guys are right about beating yourself up. I was kicking myself in the butt this Sunday when I broke my no contact after my ex-EUM kept blowing up my phone. The result was me blowing steam at him on the phone and then him rushing me off the phone when he realized that I didn’t want to see him! I spent the first half of yesterday feeling like crap before I decided to just get over it and start a new NC. I realized that it was just because I’d disappeared on him and he needed an ego stroke that he’d contacted me toe begin with. It made me livid. He seriously couldn’t understand why I wouldn’t want to stay “friends” with him, even though we broke up almost two months ago and I’d only moved out about 3 weeks ago. It never matters with these guys.
Dear Ladies,
Thank you so much for your wonderful words…I dont know what I would have done without this site (Thanks NML) and your wise advices girls!!!
I will start again…my NC rule:-(
Unfortunately this EUM works in the same building I do. Apparently he came up to my floor and noticed I wasn’t there, so he emailed me to see if I was okay. I already answered him that I was fine, but I didn’t ask him how he was or anything like that. I just kept it short. I didn’t want him to think I was pining over him. If he broke up with me why would he want to worm his way back in? Did he break up with me to basically teach me a lesson and not ask for more and now that I know not to ask for more he can worm his way back in is that it.
Alika,
I’m so sorry your EUM is such a dick. I hope you can be strong enough not respond to him anymore.
Mariposa, unfortunately with these men it’s a power play. They break up with you, yet execpt you to keep pining after them for their ego sake. It’s absolutely unheard of that you should say screw them and move on with your life. They treat you like crap and then seem surprised when you finally wake up to their antics and say to hell with it and them. When they come back begging it’s not because they really miss you or are coming to offer you anything different, it’s because they can’t believe that someone finally sees what they know deep down inside themselves, they’re full of crap!
Mariposa, there is no rhyme or reason to these a**clowns…they do whatever they want as long as it pleases them. They are unreliable, unpredictable and there is no figuring them out. Try instead to figure out why you should NOT put up with any of his or anyone’s nonsense…spend time in finding yourself worthwhile. These guys can throw us off balance in a heartbeat. Next time he emails you …delete it or don’t answer him. Can you block him?
HUGS
Nikki,
You know one of the many times we’ve broken up he actually told me that he wanted me to be pining for him. I started dating about a month afterwards and he was extremely hurt, so he says. He said, “how could I move on so fast”. Oh he gave me the guilt trip. It made me so mad. I unfortunately went back with him for a couple of months until he broke up with me this last time.
Everytime we have broken up it’s been pretty cordial, but this time it was really bad. I basically asked for more and he said that he couldn’t do this anymore. I was just asking for the basics like calling me to at least wish me a Happy New Year. He couldn’t even do that. Then I asked about his MySpace and his over 5000 skanky friends and he really got upset.
What get’s me is that if you saw him walking down the street he’s nobody that you would give a second glance. He’s somewhat overweight and balding. People use to wonder what the hell I saw in him.
The problem is that we work in the same building so I’m bound to run into him one of these days. He’s already come to my floor twice since he broke up with me. I could hear him talking really loud and laughing. Makes me think he did on purpose.
finallyseenthelight,
I am trying to figure out myself. I’m going to therapy and reading a lot. I’m even journalling. I still can’t stop myself from trying to figure him out.
mariposa,
i know, i wasted plenty of time trying to analyze my ex EUM too…and when you are ready to, you will focus more on you!
Good luck and don’t give up…it’ll get better. Some days it’s harder for me, but I try to work through those days and eventually it gets easier. I keep telling myself that he strung me along and wasted enough of my time…I also accept the fact when I am obsessing and tell myself, “okay, you are obsessing, now let’s try and do something for yourself now”….make some tea, play on the computer, call a friend, go for a walk….good luck.
OK going on week 3 of NC. This is an example of boundries crossed. Weirdly, an hour after I posted my earlier comment I got a sneak phone call from the MM who calls my work number which has no caller ID. I told him there was nothing to talk about and hung up. Then he texts me this: Why do u hav to shut me out of ur life…I have always been there for u when u wanted to talk. do u want me to hate u, cause that will make things a lot worse.
I felt I had to set my boundry again so I text: Nothing ever changes, I do not want u in my life at all…do not contact me again. He relplies: I love you more than anything and ur breaking my heart. I want us to be happy together , im so sorrry i hurt u. If you want things to change and want us to be together how can that possibly happen if u don’t talk to me or help me leave.
This my friends is an example of desperate messures and a hint of threat. This has been going on for 5 months of me saying I don’t want to do this, and I give in and talk to him and then he says he is leaving and he doesn’t. THis time I really am not doing it for a response. I really want him out of my life.
Reading this blog has given me the wake up call to take my life back. Thanks to all of you.
Hey nysharon, this guy sounds a little bit unbalanced. Talk about trying to guilt you – and that really did sound like a veiled threat he made. I would save that text, and if he bothers you again I would tell him if he contacts you one more time, you will contact the authorities. That should get him out of your life. I’m happy for you that you saw the light with this guy. This blog gave me my wake up call too 🙂
Hey NYSharon,
It seems to me that it is not your job or responsibility to “help him leave”. That has always been his responsibility, either to you or himself, or the relationship you thought you had with him. He is blameshifting right now, and personally, I hope you don’t fall prey to his tactics. Stay strong, you are better than this, and can certainly find other ways to spend your time, than thinking or dealing with a man who cheats. Take care, best to you. TS.
NY Sharon,
You need to stop responding to this guy altogether!! Go NC completely!! He going to continue texting and calling as long as you respond to his messages. Show him you mean business!!!
Hey NYSharon,
I am not sure what type of business you work at, especially in
NY(?), where you don’t have caller ID on your business phone? That is just standard in business today. Maybe, for awhile, let all calls go to voice mail? Then, answer the messages only. If he has that number, and knows it is a way to get to you unannounced, then you may have to address that in some way. Perhaps suggest to your employer that caller ID is a very important tool for more efficient use of the work phone? I often let calls go to voicemail, either because I am engaged in other activities that need my immediate attention at that moment or I know I can call them back later when I can really talk about the work issue at hand.
Getting personal calls at work is unfair to you and your employer, if they disrupt your attention to the job you are being paid to do. If your MM doesn’t respect you enough to respect the work you do, that says a lot. He does not take you seriously, he does not even respect the work you need to do. I am sure he would not be so open to you intruding on his work life, if you would do the same to him.
Personal life has to be kept out of the work place, in reasonable ways. Technically, he should only be trying to contact you through personal means, although, technically, he shouldn’t, because, he is a married man.
Although, you have already asked him not to contact you, he is disrespecting your wishes right now, that shows great disrespect to you. You should not misinterpret that message in any way shape or form. He is disrespecting you right now. Do not respond. I agree with everyone here. Absolute NC is what you need to do right now.
To take a note from Brad on this board. Maybe, this is a case, where you need to notify your employer that you are being harassed, and that you need caller ID on your work phone, to avoid his calls. It might be needed? But, then again, you don’t need to announce to everyone at work that this is going on. I hope you can figure out a way to get him to stop calling you at work.
It will be hard, it will be painful, but, in the end, it will be worth it.
Best to you NYSharon, I hope tomorrow seems better. TS
Rules,
We all discuss our lack of self-esteem-reason for staying with the assclowns-on this site, so I was wondering what your husband’s self-esteem level was when he was going through his period?
I haven’t seen him on here in a while so I thought I would pass this question through you.
Thank you Finallyseenthelight, you are right we are awake now and can do something about it ie. no contact.
I think the past 7 months of trying to be friends have been more painful than the 16 months of dating .. he played so many games in the past 7 months.. so I kept it brief and to the point and said this friendship doesn’t work for me so im ending contact.. wow did that feel gooooooooooodd. No point doing it anytime before now though because i wasn’t quite ready to let go …
Goodlcuk on continuing your journey finallyseenthelight and others
Tulipa, Ive advised katyB not to try and be friends with this clown of hers. Shes had no contact for 1 week now, I know she is desperate for him to contact her. I saw him quickly on Sat!!! hvnt told her what he said. I bumped into him in town. As I cnt make head nor tails of this freakin situation. Part of me is inclined to write off everything he says as BS, and belive me some of it is and just wait and see what happens with him. He is a totally messed up guy and to be honest his freakin antics at xmas would have freaked me out, cos these guys can quite literally change in a matter of hours. Im totally at loss as to really help her, I know she is desperate for him to make the changes that my ex did and have the same outcome, but what I cant make her realise is that, Yes they had a nice xmas at her house playing happy families, he got arsey, caged in, bored cld entertain himself without gambling, going out, even though he aint drinking, getting cabin fever, even though he was the one who kept clinging hold of her, going round her house, he had a two week break from work, when she was ok doing her own stuff, like a normal person, she aint clingy, she does loads, when his at her house, she gets on with her own stuff. He freakin freaked started getting arsey when she called him to say hey, then within one week of a great xmas day, great gifts, etc he’s telling her, he dont love her, going out to pubs again, but saying he’s not drinking etc, like that changes anything the twaty mentalities still there, trawling arse in the roughest pub, GRRRRRRRR Freak. Her heads about to cave in. I need advice quickly girls, Im losing her. xxx
Rules,
What happened to the 12-step program???? It sounds like she needs to get some outside help ASAP!
I’ve been visiting this blog for almost a year and it has been very helpful. I recognised myself in majority of posts and just wanted to add that those men (EUM) are like clone, more or less, as though they are ‘special kind’, maybe some of them also have psychopath personality traits. I am also still asking myself where those creatures came from??!!!!!
This may sound crazy but most of you are hearing back from your A**Clowns after either they or yourselves have broken it off with them. THis to an extent gives you the opportunity to reject him and his behaviour many times (and in a way that has to feel good) and also perhaps makes you feel like oh ok… maybe he did care. I broke up with mine and ever since he hasnt really even tried to get back with me (we work together) Not that i would want him to but somehow the fact that he just “ACCEPTED” the break up makes me feel worse— I almost want him to come crying back to me saying he’s sorry etc… .just so that I can say… NOPE! Sorry!!! Like I said– I know this sounds crazy but I sometimes think about this and feel worse that he hasn’t really tried anything. I see him at work and he says hello (I stay away as much as possible) and every once in awhile he will say something like “Oh you look very pretty today” or… “Hey– where have you been? You haven’t been down here in awhile” Like I said– I keep it short, simple and professional but could it be that he didnt even care about me? Or is it that these men are sooo selfish and full of pride that he WILL NOT go there? I guess either way it hurts and it shouldnt matter but knowing that he isnt even TRYING to contact me makes me feel worse somehow! 🙁
Karen,
No, it doesn’t sound crazy. I guess we want to feel we have a little control at some point of this mess . But the good thing is is that he is not trying to reconcile, making for a faster recovery.
One more thing. We must stop obsessing, I would guarantee that they are not doing the same. They don’t care!!!
Lilly, I think they came from over indulgent moms and uninvolved fathers.
Thanks to you others for your advice. He will keep trying because in the past I have always caved at some point. Some of it is my fault. He is just trying to get the status quo back and have his cake and eat it too. He has a million excuses for not leaving his wife, and I have finally accepted that he will never do it. I woke up this am to another text message saying now he is sorry he hurt me. I agree that i will not respond and yes he crossed the boundries I set. The only text I responded with was the one telling him no more contact. He has even come to my house in the past and I have pretened I wasn’t home. Last night I had a coworker walk out with me just in case he was there. Mentioning my phone problem at work is not an option since I am embarrassed about the situation. I will ponder this one though. Also he is a cop and in the past I have told his friends to leave me alone. He knows i have used up that option now since they will know I have caved and started talking to him again, it makes me look bad. So I am going to let my phone go to voicemail, and hope he eventually gives up. I will also avoid going places, esp with a date, that I may possibly run into him. Thanks again, I feel strong.
Karen
your comments are right on. It is sad that they aren’t trying to contact us but at the same time when they do, it makes it worse for us to move on. I wish I could erase the past 5 years – but it is what it is. Hopefully we all come out alot stronger, smarter and wiser on the other side of this mess.
Karen,
I know it’s hard when they don’t even try to contact you, but think that he’s doing you a favor by not trying to get back with you. When thoughts of rejection surface try not to take it personally. It’s his problem not yours. He has issues and be glad that they’re no longer yours. This is what I tell myself and it does help when I get into panic mode. I think the further out you are from the situation the easier it gets.
I know– but its sick how I really wish he was pining for me– as if that would take the pain away. I guess it hurts to think that these men really don’t care… it makes me sad and mad at the same time to know that I wasted my time. If only I knew then what I know now…. I would have handled things soo differently. I know we can’t get that time back but I can’t help to sometimes really wish and feel there was a way to make him hurt as well– I guess if he was “trying” to contact me or say im sorry it would somehow make me feel good to have to shoot him down. Its like the only way to hurt these men is to hurt their ego’s… if even that. I know I did the right thing in ending it (although it was very hard and it took a long time for me to finally do it) and that in a sense like NML says… I rejected him…and I rejected his behavior. Either way i guess it always hurts to know that you loved someone that much and they weren’t genuine and sincere with their feelings in return. It just sucks sometimes!!!
Wow! So many similarities in our stories here. I think yesterday I posted that I work with my A.Clown (dont even like calling him mine!) and said he’d probably start pulling the friend card in a month or two. Well, obviously my complete and utter disappearance (for the first time ever) has knocked him back a peg or two. He was staring me down all morning and made all kinds of stupid moves to start a conversation. 😉 I just looked at him. I didnt feel anything.
So I can tell you from my own experience, that it will happen. It is different for everybody, but one day you will look at that stupid idiot and know in both heart and head that he is … a stupid idiot.
And even now, with me doing so well I sometimes feel guilty that I am feeling so incredibly powerful and “okay”. We will get through this – all of us. You ladies have helped me so much. Yay! 😀
Hold your head up high Karen. Your revenge is living well, having no drama in your life, and something better will walk into your life because you set the boundries! It is harder to move on when they contact you. When they do its just to boost their ego’s. It doesn’t mean he didn’t care for you…he just loves himself more.
Hey Gaynor- Dont think she’s ready for the 12 steps yet, she really doesnt equal her behaviour with his. However she is always asking how I got to be so strong. To be honest the 12 programme is a huge work as well as the workbook alongside it, it takes a couple of years to get through to be honest. Ive got a Law Degree and I can tell you studying myself and being totally honest about me, was truly the hardest thing Ive ever accomplished. Im thinking about taking an MA in Legal Theory for fun! thats how hard working the steps is. It takes true guts, commitment and determination, and I had a few amendments to make myself ie MY SON, who had been dragged from relationship to relationship because of my addiction. KatyB has some addictions herslef I watch her, Im not judging her, but I have a very keen eye, and to be honest just thinking about yourself in those terms is a huge accomplishmnet, as we never think we are addicts in the sense that we know an addict, she comfort eats, as I have and would do, drinks a bit to cheer herself up, cleans, works evrything is over and above the norm. We all posses thes qualities, or should I say querks, but where for most us these totally come to the fore is MEN, Thats our addiction. For KatyB truly understan this she has to take a step back, I was lucky (if I can say that) I was involved with Narcotics Anon in my relationshio, It gave me a head strart. I just dont think she’s there yet. She’s in that zone of analyising every word etc. I get him totally, and I think he wanted to talk to me on Sat. But you know Im done with addicts, all that I know are in recovery I love em and I have a few in my life those that are doing it. KatyB just isnt there yet. I will work with her, Her daughter is off to her fathers this weekend, John is off to the States on Bussiness, My boy is of doing summit, that I dont wanna know about, so Im gonna have her here, and Im gonna try and get her to read an amazing book by Robin Norwood to get her started. She needs to stop obsessing, and boy do we know about that. I think in truth he loves her, but being an addict p[uts him in the no go zone, he cant figure what he wants from one day to another, how can he, even though he’s clean the addict in him is still there, dying to be quenched, no drugs noalchol, but theres sex, and gambling work etc. Until he gets a grip of his own behavior and gets the help he needs, KatB needs to go. The thing she aint getting is that if and if is a big word, he goes to re-hab and gets his sponser it will take him at least one year before he can even think about getting into any kind of relationship, and he cant do that without his sponsers permission or guidance, she dont get that she should be moved on by then, and to be honest his relationship with KatB was negative, it’ll always be there, no trust, niggling at her, he cant go back there,he will have to move on into a relationship where those negatives dont excist. Its a huge pill to swallow, for her she’s got to at first accept thats its truly over, it has to be, for her sake her daughters sake and if, as I belive he knows whats going on with him, his sake to. I truly believe in letting people go, to find there own way home. If you love someone, truly, you will love them for whatever path they follow. She doesnt, shes angry, OK fair point, but true love lets go. She doesnt love him truthfully. I know, I can tell the difference.
Karen,
I think what you’re seeking is validation from him. He can’t give you that you have to give it to yourself. I understand wanting revenge, but if you did get revenge the feeling of satisfaction would be short lived. The best you can do is work on yourself.
I think these guys are not capable of truly caring for anybody. It’s his problem not yours. You have to figure out why you placed yourself in a no win situation and work on you.
Gaynor_ John will answer, but he said for all of us to find a relevant post, because he dont wanna take it of track.
Girls after my warrble above, I would like also to say to get it back on track, boundaries dont have to excist for others only, they have to excist for yourself to. Example, you go out with a guy, dont drink, it makes you drop your watchful eye, it makes you messy, and ohh so easy lol xxx loving you all.
Hi ladies, just having a browse at what my wife has been writing. Karen, Im going to tell you from a mans point of view why he isnt pining. He thinks differently from you. Men think rationaly, woman think emotionaly. Totally different. He will think, if he has a bit of personl insight, its good she’s gone, Im no good for her, or if he has no personal insight, F@”$* her, she was a nagging cow anyway. Most men even though they have alot of personal insight, will still block it out, by thinking S*&^)! but Im a guy lets go F$)&* another woman, that’ll sort it out. Men dont do emotions, very few of us. Im a guy and I have loads of guys telling me BS about girls, they love them but would rather make exuses, and to them they are valid excuses, than admit how they feel. It takes a Nemesis of a woman or to come at the right time, to make a difference. Sorry but some of you may not be at the right time or that woman.
Thank you (to everyone) I know Im seeking validation in the wrong place… and I know that I have to work on me…. I guess thats why it feels crazy… because inspite of “KNOWING” these things my mind still goes there like its on AUTOPILOT or something! Im still obsessing or thinking about HIM at times (Its getting better– but I have my moments) I guess I just regret having given soo much of myself and somehow I feel like he ROBBED me!!! I know I have to take responsibility for putting myself in this situation– I guess I just believed him, his stupid sob stories, how bad he had it at home, the poor me come and save me role. I was very clear in what my expectations were the entire time… there was no need for him to say I love you– or yes I want a future with you if there was no intention of following through with that… I guess Im more angry at myself for believing his words more than his actions!! A tough lesson that I hope i have finally learned!! I guess I will never really get answers to all my “why’s” but know that If I continue to ask why it only keeps me stuck. I know I need to focus on me and why I chose a man who is “unavailable”– if it weren’t for me coming across this site I don’t think I would have made it this far or have known that part of the problem is that I myself have issues that I need to address. Ok– gonna keep strong!! Thanks again !!! (hugs)
John T:
OUCH! But nice to have this perspective! Great! I hope i dont start obsessing as to WHY I WASNT that woman who could make the difference! LOL I know— sooo my brain is soo dysfunctional!!!
JohnT,
That is an OUCH. Then why is it that a lot of these men come back sniffing around after a while?
However, I think I would have solved a few thousand pounds, if I’d Have known about the 12 steps. In all honesty girls, when I met my wife she was totally in control. Us guys knows when a girl is freaked out, has trust issues, playing hard to get. Its the same as when you know a guy is stringing you a line. Sorry we do, we love sex ans we will do anything to get it!. SORRY!!!!. I think its good for you to know. We tend to go for those that are, dare I say it needy!!! in other words, they chat us up. Never cool, Ladies, c’mon, we love a challenge!!! Those ladies, we know are gonna give it up. They equate sex with love. Men suck we’ll say anything to get laid. Its awful. The girls that have true boundaries, and I dont mean the ones that are put up because of a lacking in trust, those ones that truly dont give a toss whether we are there or not are the ones we fall in love with. GAME ON!!!
Mariposa, Sorry, but we like the intial dating shit. We love to date. We still feel free. Oh because we can! Im ducking for cover now!!!!
Karen dont start obsessing!! for most of the time its our fault. However womans behavior can drive a man to drink. SORRY RULES IM T-TOTAL HONEST!!
ERRRRRRR, Yeah right. Go do the washing up honey! Ladies Ladies Ladies. JT met me at a time of total personal enlightenment. Truly. I didnt give and I quot “a toss” whether he was there or not. I did’nt. My boudaries where there naturally. I was walking the walk! so to speak. If youre talking them, youre kidding yourself.
Mariposa- we can, because you are an option, or we truly love you. However you have to take into consideration what we have done to you, whether we have seen the error of our ways. DONT GO BACK! Ok? Its our loss. Self respect. ALWAYS!
John T that is all I need to hear are the words Self Resect. It is what keeps me going. I am sick of being seen as this emotional, sappy, talker, blah blah blah. It is so boring to me and to the men. I am toughening up now. I broke up with my x for the third time a month ago and all I can think is self respect. IF he comes back, because he thinks he can, he will be sadly mistaken. My goal is to not just not take his calls but to tell him in a very nice way this relationship does not work for me and that is it.
BTW, I am so glad you are posting on here. I really like having the male perspective. It is really helpful.
Karen,
You are like how i use to be. I always wanted him to come back because I thought somehow it proved that he cared about it. In reality it does not mean that. It usually means they want something from you, or they are lonely or bored. Them coming back is never about YOU. It is about them. Unfortunately I often felt that i could be anyone to him. It wasn’t really me. It was comfort, ego stroking, sex, etc that he wanted. I have come to realize their return has nothing to do with how they feel about you. You no longer need his validation. The man can not love, is a bad person that did not treat you 100%. You should just feel good knowing you are a better person than him and that you are just going to grow and get healthier from this. He will continue is eu ways.
Thanks Leeane!!! 🙂
John T:
Not for anything but HE DID all the chasing!!! Grant it… I fell into it… he was the first one to say I love you and he was HOT HOT in the beginning. For some of us who are uneducated in the fact that these “types” of men exist…. I guess we were just thinking it was your normal— he is interested in me pursuit (or atleast thats the way I took it) I followed his lead……… I am not good at Bullsh*T and so I would call him on things that he would say he would do– but didnt follow through with. So If I was too much pressure or didn’t let him get away with lies or telling me one thing but doing another and or calling him out on things and I am NEEDY for that— than so be it!!! I guess those were my boundries… he crossed them– and while I allowed his behaviour instead of getting out at the get go— I guess better late than never!! But I certainly didn’t feel like I chased him (in the beginning) he chased me all the way!!! It wasn’t until he started giving me mixed signals (from HOT to Cold) that I started to feel insecure and clingy and needy!! Because not for anything… I was like WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON??? It was that rollercoaster ride of not knowing where I stood. If he really liked me or if he didnt because he was soo inconsistent. If he really meant what he said or if he was just saying it because its what I wanted to hear. So I guess my point is that I really don’t think that this is the norm. Men who are not emotionally unavailable I dont think would do this…. it feels different. I know that now perhaps I could spot the difference but I definetely feel that this relationship or these types of men are in a league of their own.
NML: while I think that we as having been women who whether consciously or unconsciously chose these men…. that these men are a certain “type” that we need to be wary of these types of men and the reasons why we attract them but that not every man will make you feel this way… am I correct in that? Can you elaborate?
And John T– it is great having you as a Male perspective but i dont agree that ALL men are like this (and if that is the case than I will go and live on the moon instead!!! LOL– losing hope here!!!) 😉
Rules, what do you think her true feelings are for him?? Is she getting angry with him or herself???
Gaynor,
Do you mean my feelings for him? I am not angry at him or myself actually. I just have faced the reality of my situation. It is not a pretty one but I am living with it and I am working with my therapist to never have a repeat performance. Actually I have been the happiest I have been since this break up. I had a lot of time to mourn when he disappeared for two months. Only to come back but that was the one and only boundary I had and he crossed the line. I have been dealing with this situation for two years and I think i just finally get it. All the analyzing over and over in my head was such a waste of time and I am so glad to say I am finally over that. I really think everyone gets to a point where they have had enough. I also keep thinking about what John T said weeks ago. Men like women who have self respect and boundaries. That is what I am focusing on. If I ever want to have a healthy relationship I need to develop boundaries.
Leeanne,
I’m sorry, I meant her girlfriend Katy.
So good to see things are coming along better for you. I am so with you regarding the boundaries-applying it to every aspect of my life-I think it is one of the most important lessons we have learned here.
John T, yea … honest you are. However, what you said truly makes me feel like maybe I should switch teams. Sounds like guys really do suck after all.
John,
Doesn’t the endless dating get a little lonely after awhile????
Thanks Gaynor. You have no idea. Six months ago I was in the same place as Karen and others on this site. I am still healing and I like to read the posts as they have given me so much strength. I have realized that I have an extreme fear of abandonment and that whenever I was getting the cold treatment all my self respect and rational went out the window. I am now working on this because if i don’t fix it I will never be in a healthy relationship as they will always have power over me.
Okay…you guys this is really getting to me. I told you EUM works in the same building as me but different floors. Lately he’s been coming to my floor and basically walking all around, but avoiding my cubicle. Why is he doing that? It’s like he’s purposely showing me that he’s ignoring me.
Yeah really. So does that mean that as women we always have to “BE THE CHALLENGE”? As I said before– I think this only applies to men who are EU. They are the one’s who don’t really want you to recipricate.. they want you to maintain a certain distance from them…..even when they are the one’s doing all the chasing!! They are the one’s that don’t really want you to WANT a relationship– they just enjoy the chase!! The problem is that when we start recipricating — they start blowing cold… then we get stuck in the vicious cycle!!! I don’t think all men are like this just the one’s that don’t have healthy relationship habits… (atleast im hoping this is the case)
If my ex EUM comes sniffing around again…I won’t be nice…I’ll tell him to GET FRIGGIN LOST! No more nice girl here! Karen, you are so lucky he has the decency to leave you alone. I’ve had those feelings..hoping he would contact me and thinking that meant he missed me and cared…but 2 things I learned…one, he only came back for his selfish reasons, to make himself feel good…and two, it SET ME BACK so much in my growth and my self esteem went spiraling downward…so…just keep on keeping on!!! Thanks to all of you for keeping me strong!
mariposa,
he’s teasing you…these guys are good at that…he wants you to feel him there, and get you to make a move for contact…not because he wants you, but for another ego stroke…they are selfish, unempathetic and make me sick! We have to watch out for ourselves!
As you, I feel so fortunate to have found this site. It has given me so much insight into myself as well as all the screwballs that exist in the dating world. With the tools we have gained, we will be able to recognize the red flags early on, which will hopefully prevent any further pain in our relationships. The sad thing is is that there are so many that do not have the insight we have gained.
Thats what I learned from this site and from Leeane and your post today finallyseenthelight– is that even if were to contact me– it wouldn’t be because he cared or missed me– or any of the reasons I would want. Thanks for reminding me of that and helping me to get back on track!
mariposa: Im sure that he is trying to get attention from you although in a very subtle way. Sounds like he is looking for an ego stroke but doesn’t want to have to ask you for it. So instead he wanders around you to see if and when you will give in. Looking to see if you will say or do anything because you know… they do think so highly of themselves!! But just like others have said today to me on this post— he is only doing it for selfish reasons !! DONT GIVE IN!!!
If he wanted to he could just talk to me. Why is he going all around? Just to show me that he could ignore me?
Cause these men are cowards mariposa. He wants the attention he just doesn’t want to work for it or ask for it or anything!!! Because if he were to say hello or come talk to you– he would have to own up to the fact that HE INITIATED the contact not you…! which in essence would mean that he is doing the chasing. He isn’t going to want to admit to this. It is easier for him to justify it to himself by saying… “Oh– i was just walking around minding my own business and she approached me” These guys really do make me sick! They are such liars!! Not only to us– but even worse… TO themselves!!! Its all about them NOT HAVING to take any responsibility for being the A**clowns that they are or for anything for that matter!!! Ugh!! Please dont give him the time of day or even look his way!! Thats exactly what he wants!!! This isnt about him ignoring you– this is about tempting you to come his way…. you don’t ignore someone by putting yourself right in their face. His actions are saying something that contradicts someone who wants to ignore you (very typical of EUM)
Mariposa- I think you are falling into his trap. He wants you to wonder and to notice that he has been on your floor. He is dangling a carrot so you will bite. Don’t do it. So pathetic on his part. Look at it like this. He is not showing you that he is ignoring you he is showing you that he is a coward and won’t make the first move to get you hooked back in. Ignore it and try to think about how pathetic his behavior actually is!
Right on Karen!
Mariposa,
It is pretty sad.
Mariposa – it could be whistling past the graveyard. That is, trying to show he isn’t afraid, when really, he is lost. What does he have to fear? Losing his job, for one, for harassing you.
You might mention this to your supervisor/boss. “I notice he keeps drifting around this floor. Doesn’t he have enough work on his floor?” and let it go. You don’t have a good case of him interfering with your work, yet the fact you said something will give a perceptive boss the message that he is interfering in your work. (Making a complaint to an unperceptive boss won’t accomplish anything at this point.) Hopefully just shining some light on his antics will get things straightened out. May get together with a couple of others in your area, and set up a daily pool for when he first shows up, and how many times each day. That would start the kind of notice he likely can’t afford. It should be easy to start, “I got a quarter says Bozo will be by twice today.”
He can’t be seen to harass you at work, so he won’t want anyone to pay particular attention to the fact he is “out of bounds” when he (and those around you) are supposed to be working.
In your case, “boundary” can be really simple – your work area. If you don’t defend your boundaries – who will?
Thanks guys. What sucks is that just when I start to feel better. He does something like that. It totally sucks. I woke up this morning actually feeling good. It’s like he knows and does something so subtle that I can’t really complain and then it sets me back a little again.
Mariposa, I really feel for you because you have to deal with this at work. I know that makes it so much harder for you to put him out of your mind. Just know that he’s trying to get your attention…and it’s working…just don’t let him know that. You will get his goat by ignoring him and not giving him that ego stroke that he is dying for…these guys are like vampires…they live off of the ego strokes we give them, draining us of our good self esteem…don’t let him do it…just keep writing on here and doing anything but making contact with him. He’s put you through too much misery already.
We all have to realize that a good relationship would make us feel good and not bad. So keep telling yourself that he’s not worth it…
Good Luck…………HUGS!
finallyseenthelight,
Believe me I am not letting him know. I’d die before I let him know how much he’s getting to me. I am trying to move on. I’m going to therapy. I’m journalling. I’ve even started dating, which might be too soon. If he thinks I’m going to call him I will not.
Thanks for talking to me.
Hey Brad K.
I think the advice you give is great.
But, I do have to ask, why are you so hard core?
Just asking, do you have a background to share yourself?
As a guy, I can’t believe women like you exist. Come on, we just don’t want to be with you any longer. We wait until someone better or more “interesting” comes along and then we move on. Most guys have already figured out with girls like you that we are NOT responsible for your actions. If we string you along time and again and you decide to put up with it, we know it!! If you allow us to have sex with you time and again – especially if we treat you like crap – but think we are committing to you, it’s your own damn fault for the pain you cause yourself when we decide it’s time to move on. You ladies sometimes think we have no right to move on. EVERYONE has that right. Face it, we lost interest in you – for whatever reason we wanted – and moved on. Period. Perhaps we found someone more intelligent, more attractive, more “fun” – we just know that we no longer wanted to be with you.
Mike,
Then why do these men repeatedly come back proclaiming their undying love???? Normal men leave and don’t string women along!
Gaynor- Because they can! these men are totally selfish and have no thought. Errrr exactly how all of us should think about them when we’re dating them, take it or leave it. Ladies have to take responsibility for there own hearts, as we cannot assume or expect anyone else to. Some men will take advantage of a no boudaries situation, in fact alot of men will, and leave it up to you to deal with. Like he says it is not their responsibility for our actions, as there stupid action behaviour is not our responsibility to stay and fix. we should move on to.
@ Mike Even though they are harsh words, how you describe this kind of guys actions and perception of the situation are actually quite accurate. The troublesome thing in this situation is that you’re right – continuing to take very clear poor behaviour, regardless of what comes out of their mouths places and onus of responsibility on the woman (far from all of it though) because we cannot live off words. But…these aren’t your average, ‘normal’ guy because if they were, they wouldn’t string and draw it out and so where the responsibility comes in, is that instead of taking what you can get and saying all of the right things to get an ego stroke and a shag, YOU should take responsibility and get lost. At the end of the day – someone has to opt out and whilst yes, the woman can always opt out of the shitty behaviour and should, it’s about time guys like this took some responsibility and did the decent thing and got lost. You do have every right to move on – but there is a big difference between doing that and literally straddling the fence so that you get the best of both worlds.
Men Suck!
Right on NML!
Rules,
Thankfully,I have become very clear on bad behavior in relationships.
I guess it is a little surprising even now to see such callous words in print. He thinks it is acceptable to treat people like crap as long as they accept it. This is narcissism at its best!!!! We could all follow his example but thankfully most of of know this is wrong and choose to lead our lives differently and treat people with kindness and respect . Would he want his mother or sister treated this way, I think not! Now, I’m not taking any of the responsibility off the woman, if a man is treating you poorly then get out. If she is choosing to stay in an unhealthy relationship then she is half of the problem and has her own issues to deal with. Enough said!
I am just so amazed at the information on this blog. It is by far the very best relationship advice out there! I’ll just post to everything in one post instead of making several little ones.
Chloe, yes during my marriage I gave up myself. My friends, hobbies, and just everything because there would be He$$ to pay if I didn’t. He was abusive.
I see this happen so much with women. They get with a guy and suddenly she takes on his life and hers is gone. Have you noticed this?
I have a workmate who just moved in with a guy and he doesn’t like the air con on so she is just supposed to sit and swelter in the heat when it is 42 out! I said look you live there too and you should speak up. I heard her on the phone the other day hunting around for boots for his kids. She has met them a once and now all of a sudden she is stuck with his child rearing things. She is going on a bunch of holidays with him and they are all his ideas. She always goes out for NYE and he didn’t want to so she didn’t. So yeah she has given up her life to this guy.
The consequences thing just really hit me when I read it today. I mean Wow what a light bulb. My thinking is that I just ignore things because I don’t want him to know I am angry and then he’ll deliberately do it to make me angry. If I ignore the behaviour they’ll stop doing it. Well maybe that works with little kids, but it doesn’t work with men. They just keep on doing the behaviour because they think because you haven’t said anything, then it is ok with you.
Like the last AC I was with. He would make the comment “you’re old” just like that. He just said it like he was saying that wall is tan. I just ignored it and thought he would stop saying it and then I tried agreesing with him saying yeah I know and I’m quite happy about my age. But he would keep on saying it so it was a put down. I should have given him consequences about it and then it would have stopped.
Cynnie, yes you find out their boundaries are quite firm. You do all the compromising and they don’t budge a bit. Talking did absolutely no good. None. I would say I would really like it if you told me you loved me more or I would like it if you bought me flowers sometime. Did he do it? No of course not as he already decided what he was going to do and not do and it wasn’t up for negotiation. He would say, I’m not romantic. End of conversation.
Rewarding bad behaviours! Gosh we women do this Soooo very much! I guess my thinking was if I kept giving and do nice things, he would see this and return the favour. Nope, they just keep taking and think you are a sap.
This other forum I read a gal was dating some AC for maybe 6 months and then he up and vanished poof. So about 6 months later he calls and leaves a voice message on her phone. Well instead of just ignoring it, she calls him back the next day and leaves one on his phone. People told her to just ignore him but she said ignoring him wouldn’t be polite and she is ready to forgive him!!!! Accck! So she thought it was all done with and now he is calling again and really he was just fishing looking for some action. Now she is all confused wondering if she should give him another chance! Another chance for what? To treat you like rubbish!
I have done it too. The disease to please and not be thought of as rude regardless of how the other person has treated you. I am getting much better at that though.
Ok I’ve written way too much. 🙂
Cheers
Boy isn’t it true that they have their boundaries and if you cross them, woe be you!!! Last week, my EUM and I were on vacation. His phone kept getting texts, so when he was asleep, I looked at his phone and a 27 year old girl from his work (he’s 47) was texting him. The text I saw said, “Beautiful pictures” meaning he sent her pictures of OUR vacation. I also saw that his ex-girlfriend sent him a text asking him “how’s skiing?” This was 2 days AFTER he told me he never hears from her. I should have turned the light on and thrown him and his friends who were staying with us out the door. Instead, I sent him a text (so I wouldn’t embarass him in front of his friends) saying I had a bad dream there was someone else and asking if there is anyone else because if there was, we could both walk out the door the next day and go our separate ways. He acted as if I hadn’t sent him a thing. Monday, I apologized for the bizarre text. What did he do???? He went off on me about how we had previously discussed this issue. ??????????? 3 months ago, I asked him on 2 occasions “are we okay?” and he got exasperated that I asked him, so we agreed I wouldn’t ask him that if he agreed we would tell each other if we wanted to end the relationship instead of doing the slow fade or disappearing – its what I call “The Rule.” THAT is what he meant and when I said it wouldn’t happen again, he repeatedly said, “You said that before.” Ultimately, he said, “Don’t let it happen again.” Now, I haven’t heard from him in two days despite a text and a phone call and I’m sitting here panicking that I pushed him over the edge and he’s ignoring The Rule and disappearing or is going to come back and say its over. If I had boundaries, I would have thrown his sorry butt out the door!!! Why, oh why, can’t I do that??? Why can’t I let go if this AC? I’ve read Natalie’s book and I STILL can’t let go!!!! HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Judy,
You’ve got to let this bum go!!! How long have you been together and are you happy with this man?????
I got a little confused with your story (needs to be broken up a bit) but from what I gather there has been a lot of lying and disappointment in the relationship. It sounds like this man has implemented his boundaries but you have clearly not done the same. Remember, there was life before this man .
I think you need to ask yourself what you are getting from the relationship
Gaynor,
We have been together 7 months. This is the first instance of which I am aware that he has lied – were there more? I don’t know. I was very happy at the beginning. He works a 12 hour shift schedule where he has every other weekend off and switches from days to nights each month. For the first 3 months of our relationship, we were together all weekend, every weekend that he had off and 1 day during the week. He would text me every day or two.
We had a big weather event at the end of month 3 that caused me not to have power for a week and he invited me to stay at this house. The weather event caused damage to his house but did not render it unliveable, so after it and up until just before we left on vacation, he has spent most of his free time dealing with insurace, repairs, etc. His work schedule also increased because 2 people in a small organization were out sick.
Following the major weather event (September) until now, I can go many days (as many as 5) without a text or phone call and we have gone as long as 2 weeks without seeing each other. It is always me going down to his house (about 60 miles away) because “its easier for [me] to find someone to take of my dogs than it is for him to find someone to take care of his” and his dog and one of mine do not get a long. Basically, he determines when we have text/phone contact and when we get together “because of his schedule.” There are many other signals that he is EU.
I am here on Natalie’s site and read her book to help fortify me to make hard decisions because I am NOT happy with the way things are. The few times I have asked him to do something different (call instead of text, take down his online dating profile), he did. But, we had our first argument on Monday with because, several months ago, when he first got whiggy, I asked him on 2 occasions, “are we okay?” to which he would get exasperated and ask me why I was asking. The third time, instead of asking if we’re okay, I suggested that I wouldn’t ask him that anymore if we could agree if one of us wanted to end the relationship, we would tell the other instead of disappearing or doing the slow fade. (The disappearing for days without contact was having an emotional toll on me). He agreed. I now call this “The Rule.”
Since our heated discussion on Monday (what I would call our first argument), I have not heard from him (did not respond to a text from me or a call) which, as I said, is not unusual for him, but because of the argument, I am having anxiety/panic attacks because I haven’t heard from him – kind of like an addict going through withdrawal – thinking he’s disappeared and not abiding by “The Rule” or that he will come back and tell me he doesn’t want to see me anymore. In other words, give me a few days to not hear from him and then do the deed as if it would make it easier to take, somehow. It would probably be a good thing if he didn’t come back since I am going through the grieving/withdrawal right now.
Monday’s argument was because I asked him via text if there was someone else. He equated that with my asking him are we okay and when I said I was sorry and it wouldn’t happen again, he kept repeating, “you said that before.” Ultimately, we ended the discussion and the phone call by him saying “don’t let it happen again.”
I will add that, from day one, I have let him do all the pursuing. Until recently, I would respond to his texts/phone calls but not initiate them. Only recently have I initiated and I may or may not get an answer. For instance, I texted him on Monday night that my son just asked to go live with his Dad and he did not answer. I called his cell the next night but did not leave a message.
In Natalie’s book, my EUM is “The Convenient One With Feet Set in Cement.†Fits him to a “Tâ€!
I will add that, from day one, I have let him do all the pursuing. Until recently, I would respond to his texts/phone calls but not initiate them. Only recently have I initiated and I may or may not get an answer. For instance, I texted him on Monday night that my son just asked to go live with his Dad and he did not answer. I called his cell the next night but did not leave a message.
Judy, let me give you piece of well intended advice. Whatever this ‘rule’ is, it doesn’t sound like he would abide by it. He controls the pace of this relationship which is not a good sign although this has been taught by you both as you say you let him do the pursuing.
“Are we OK?” is an extremely indirect question and not likely to achieve much. I suspect no matter what you say, he’s going to get p*ssy with you anyway, but there is no other way to ask if he is sleeping with someone else, other than to ask him straight up if he is.
Someone who has regard for your feelings and doesn’t want you to be in a position of feeling uncared for or like you’re being cheated on, would speak up and say no, I’m not cheating. You will keep going around in circles on this discussion until you are direct with him. Many a man would tell you that things were fine if you ask them if you’re OK…even if their shagging ten women behind your back. Clearly, if a guy is screwing around behind your back, he is OK with that – it’s you that isn’t.
What you have is a man that doesn’t want to communicate and doesn’t want to have his honesty questioned, even if you are justified in doing so. However, you must learn to be more direct and have the uncomfortable conversations – should he ever pick up the phone again…
Personally, he sounds like a real class act – change the table, assume the power, and YOU cut contact. You know what you are dealing with so why prolong the agony? What is it that you need him to ‘clarify’ for you? His actions speak volumes.
Natalie,
Thanks SO much for your advice. You are very right that he does control the pace of the relationship. Actually, the text I sent him on Sunday did, in fact, ask him if he was seeing anyone else. Notably, he never answered the question and, instead, said I thought we’ve been through this before – meaning the are we okay and, then, “the rule” that, until he tells me otherwise, we are fine and in an exclusive relationship.
Right now, I really don’t think I need him to clarify anything and I just need to pull up my big girl panties, acknowledge the AC that he is and move on. That’s what I’m having problems doing and why I keep hoping he makes contact. I keep reading your articles here and the comments in the hope I will get mad enough to do the deed and call it off. The thought of that has me panicked.
Dear Judy, I’m so sorry for you. But you are only seven months in, so you should be able to recover from this bad treatment pretty quickly. Just try to extrapolate into the future…how would several years of uncertainty and his evasions and refusal to say anything to reassure you, how would that affect your emotional well being? If you are already feeling panicky now, you’d probably be a basket case later.
If he doesn’t have somebody else now, it sure looks like he is shopping or open to the idea. I hope you can get out before that happens. Take care!
Judy,
Why is this relationship in his control, there are two people involved here??? What percentage of this relationship are you happy???
I realize that you love this man-we all have-but the world will not come to an end, you must recognize that another cannot have so much control over your life and actions.
Lastly, this guy mainly texts? Big red flag. Also, you said he you can go five-days w/o NC, this is not a relationship. Judy, I’m sorry but you have to recognize what this situation is and move on or you will or you will lose yourself and your self respect. Not worth it!!!!!
Thanks Regina! This guy works around a lot of women (health care professionals) and he claims they are all just very good, close friends. I have met several of them, which would support that claim. the thing is, here we are 7 months in and I should feel a lot more secure about our relationship than I do. I’m constantly wondering why I don’t hear from him for 2, 3,4 and 5 days at a pop. I can see how he manages down my expectations, I can see how he is keeping me close, yet far enough away. I am just having the hardest time accepting all of that and doing something about it. I am also having the hardest time thinking of him with other women – why them and not me? What’s wrong with me? Why am I ALWAYS second best? (My XH left me for another woman and I have a chain of relationships that ended because the guy left me for someone else).
I think it was Mike who commented that we all seem like intelligent women who are above these guys. My EUM should be thanking is lucky stars to have someone like me. I am very well-educated, multiple degrees – he graduated from flight school in the Army. I have a 6 figure salary that is almost 4 times his. I could go on and on and on. Yet, here he is holding all the cards, exercising all the control. I NEED to force myself to break contact (although, we’re in one of the periods where there’s been no contact for several days) and having such a difficult time with it.
Judy,
You know all the signs, he screams EUM. Do you think he’s going to change??? We cannot expect people to change, this is who he is.
Oh, I’m very clear he isn’t going to change! That’s one thing I’ve known from the outset!
Judy,
Then why stick around???
Judy,
How far into the relationship was his online profile up? Also, I don’t get why you’re always going to this clown? If he wanted to spend time together he would have made an effort to come to you on a 50/50 basis. Remember, it’s all in the actions!!!!
You also asked why you come in “second best.” Perhaps this is because you have not set any boundaries with these men-I did the same in my last relationship-why would they want a woman who does not respect herself enough to stand up for her beliefs and values, would you if the situation were reversed???? We must implement boundaries or we will continue to be doormats in every aspect of our lives. Go back and reread the series on boundaries, and also focus on the comments made by the male posters.
Gaynor, thanks so very much. I am reading and rereading and rereading. His profile was up 4 months from the day we started dating. When I asked him, he took it down. I drive his way because of the dogs. I have 2 very big and one little dog and he has 1 VERY big dog (Great Dane).
Today has been good and bad. The anxiety attacks continue, but at least now, I am vascilating between wanting him to call/text and not wanting him to because I have sworn to myself I will not contact him – and so far I haven’t. When I am wanting him to text/call, it so overwhelms the practical side of me (the side that hopes he doesn’t). Its as the fear that he is mad at me still, rejecting me, disappearing/abandoning has to be removed before I can rationally take action to end the relationship. Stupid, I know, but the pain is killing me.
One of the male posters (Mike) said when men text they only want sex. That hit me square between the eyes because for the first several months of our relationship, all we did was text unless we were making plans to go out. He RARELY called. It wasn’t until I told him I would like him to call more often that he did. But, the texts at the beginning of the relationship were always about sex….what I was wearing (panties), were they wet, etc. It was very erotic and exciting. Speaking of sex, when we would have sex, he’d pull my hair and say I’m such a whore because I like it so much. At the time, again, it was very exciting and erotic, but when he did it last week when we were on vacation, I was offended because I feel we’re past that – yet, I didn’t say anything.
I would appreciate any good words of wisdom on how to stop obsessing and wallowing in limbo hoping and praying he’ll text/call. I’ve tried the keeping busy, working out, etc. I even tried one posters suggestion to sing a song because it redirects you and makes you feel happy. (Funny, the song I keep singing is from the Spongebob CD, Plankton singing, “You will obey. Body and soul, you will obey.” Can’t get it out of my head). Nothing is working. I can’t even sleep.
To tell you how nuts this has made me, I am so worried about this 27 year old that i drove past her house. She lives in a row of condos and there was a guy who looks exactly like my EUM (even same color/type sweater EUM has) on the balcony of either hers or the condo next to hers. He stared at me as I drove past. Would have sworn it was him. Then, I drove past his house which is some 35 miles away and his garage door was open, one of his two vehicles was visible (the other could have or may not have been behind the other, closed garage door. and lights in the house were on. I am still sitting here panicking that the reason I haven’t heard from his because it was him on the balcony…That is now illogical I am being….how would he have gotten there? Neither of his cars were anywhere to be seen near her condo unless his little sports car (the one that would have been behind his other, closed garage door) was in her garage, she would have had to drive him there from 35 miles away (why would they do that) and EUM would have had to left his garage door open and lights on (he’s very meticulous and a bit OC with regard to orderliness) or called one of his neighbors to go open his garage door (they have the code) when he saw me.. THIS shows you how neurotic my thinking is right now!!!! I am SO panicked it was him and that’s why he hasn’t contacted me. (YES, I am seeing a counselor)!
Hi Judy,
I wanted to let you know I was where you are about 2 months ago, (only it was for the umpteenth time for me). My last EUM only texted though (that was his management tool, to manage my expectations down). I obsessed for a while and I was the one that cut contact. At the end of the day, it didn’t matter because what my perception was and what his was were two different things and there wasn’t any relationship to begin with. I got on this site and it’s made a world of difference in my life. I too, had to read and reread before I got it and I am still working on it, only working on me!
At any rate, this is a suggestion, Do Not give away your dignity to this guy by calling him, texting him checking up on him, it’s a waste of your time and energy (I know, easier said than done). You will look needy, it’s just not worth it and you came to the right place to help with that. Forget about the “Rule” obviously he is not playing in the same sandbox as you so there are no “Rules” and be glad that your investment is limited to 7 months rather than years down the road….Gail
Judy,
I hope I wasn’t too tough but it’s what got me to see reality.
I find it very disturbing that you had to ask him to take down his profile, he should have done this once it was established you were together. I still don’t get the dog thing. You have three and yet he only has one, this doesn’t make sense. It’s all in the actions or should I say inaction!!!!!
I think you need to ask yourself what you get from this ‘relationship’ besides misery. Honestly, it doesn’t sound like he’s contributing much of anything. How can you miss nothing???? When I went NC from my Ex-assclown it was so liberating, b/c you know what, I got my self-esteem back and that’s more important than any man could ever give me. I really think you need to look within and ask yourself why you believe you deserve so little in your life.
What helped me was keeping very busy. I got involved with volunteer activities, Salsa dancing, meditation, courses in school, etc…. Not only did I discover fun activities I also made a lot of new and wonderful people. This is up to you, you can choose to hold on to something that is painful and destructive or you can choose to do what’s best for you. As I stated before, the world will end if this man is no longer in your life.
Gaynor,
You are not being too tough. You are forcing me to look at reality and I appreciate it GREATLY! Stick with me girlfriend!
Judy,
You got it!!!!!
Having a really tough time….fought the good fight but can’t seem to maintain no contact. I keep reaching out to him. Called him yesterday and had a nice conversation. Sent him 2 texts today and received no anwers to either one. UGH!!!!!!!!! Why can’t I stay away from him? I’m like a moth and he’s the candle.
Hi Everyone. Due to a technical fault with the previous service which notifies you by email when I publish a new post, I have had to move to a new provider. The error means you will now need to sign up to the Feedblitz service if you want to start receiving emails again. Apologies for any inconvenience caused. Thanks Natalie/NML
YOU ARE BRILLIANT!! Absolutely Brilliant. I found this site 6 weeks ago after getting dumped in January (he disappeared from the face of the earth) and it is paramount in helping me get my act together…It has not been a smooth ride…but when I am feeling weak or down…I read another post to reinforce my resolve. THANK YOU SO MUCH…