Dee’s ex kept pursuing her periodically for over ten years until she stopped taking his calls and emails. “Ten years of anxiety about when I’d hear from him next or what the hell he wanted with me is enough. I’m not gonna guilt myself any longer and it’s my own time I’m wasting. He knows why I’m not accepting contact from him – we’ve been broken up for TEN years!”.
For anyone, under any illusions about disappearing and No Contact, while they appear to have similarities, they are different.
To disappear is to leave secretly and without explanation.The core difference with it and NC is there’s no secrecy and plenty of explaining and warning has gone beforehand whether or not the person chose to heed it. Disappearing in relationships is really about a current relationship where you have the right to expect that they’re still showing up for the relationship job. It also refers to when you’re dating someone and they vacate abruptly and without explanation.
‘Disappearers’ exit either permanently or for a period of time, returning often without warning or explanation to manage down your expectations and train you to expect that they’ll disappear. They may press The Reset Button. They tend to be either avoiding conflict, panicking about delivering on grand promises, juggling another relationship etc
You may also believe they disappeared if they did warn or explain but you didn’t think it was the end of the discussion – that is where disappearing and No Contact cross paths.
Unfortunately that ‘end of the discussion’ can be subjective and sometimes they think there’s nothing left to say, especially if they don’t want to continue the cycle. If they disappeared after a few dates, regardless of how well they appeared to go, they likely don’t feel it warrants an explanation.
No Contact is generally a post breakup tool and it’swhatcementsa decision to break up that’s already been made ANDcommunicated whether they’ve chosen to heed what you say or not.
It’s cutting contact both physically and communicatively to put distance and boundaries between you, heal, and move forward, and is often used when when they don’t respect your wishes and your boundaries. You might also go NC if you’ve been pursuing them after you’ve broken up and engaging in what you’ve come to view as embarrassing and/or humiliating behaviour.
You’ll have discovered they were a NC candidate either during the relationship or when you tried to break up with them and discovered you couldn’t shake them off.
They’ll want to have relationships on their terms and to breakup on their terms – i.e with the right to bust up your boundaries and enjoy the same level of access to you that they had in the relationship.
Unless they’re dangerous, NC is not what you would use to break up for the first time as it would cross into disappearing as you abruptly vanish from an existing relationship.
In reality, people break up all the time without having to employ hardcore NC but being healthy enough to recognise that some distance is required and not expecting to continue on with the fringe benefits of a relationship when it suits. That’s not disappearing – it’s respect and life.
The relationship is broken. That means it is time to move on. If you had a healthy relationship, you might remain friends, but equally you might not.
People with reasonable levels of self-esteem and healthy relationship habits recognise that you cannot grieve the loss of a relationship if you are still emotionally invested and/or the other party has license to screw with you.
Every day, many people break up by uttering the words ‘I want to break up’ (or whatever) and following through. It’s tricky, it’s uncomfortable, they likely have some awkward discussions and arguments, but they do it because they recognise that if one or both people’s hearts aren’t in it or they’re not able to get what they need/are incompatible, it’s time to let it go.
NC tends to be used for:
Assclowns – they either have narcissistic tendencies orarenarcissistic so you absolutely will not get rid of them out of your lifeuntilyou cut them off. Trying to reason with them is like rationalising the irrational. In the worst cases, you may need to disappear instead of just rejecting contact.
Unavailable people – they may have narcissistic tendencies, but the bigger issue of why NC arises is that they’re commitment resistant, so they don’t like endings, struggle with ‘abandonment’, and their actions don’t match their words.
Those without pride – any form of attention keeps feeding the fantasy and they’re crossing boundaries.
Casual relationships – they’re informal and ambiguous, and if the other party is hard of hearing, they’ll keep floating around in your life treating you like a gap filler.
Once you’ve broken up with someone and they know it yet you can’t shake them off, you do not have to explain why you are distancing yourself – they know.
The truth is: When one person wants out, they wantout. They don’t need your permission to leave and equally you don’t need theirpermission to leave either. Some people will never give you that anyway, hence NC.
Yes breakups hurt, yes they’re a pain in the arse, yes some people can and should handle them better, but unless you both mutually agree that the relationship isn’t working, one of you is not going to like the decision.
With NC, people tend to fall into one of three camps:
They tell the person, even if they’ve told them a thousand times before, not to contact them, and then start NC.
They take the previous discussions and/or the fact that they’re already broken up as them being told and start NC.
And then there are some who use NC to play games and provoke the person into being and doing what they want – this is the 2nd instance where NC crosses paths with disappearing because it’s with the intention of going back & trying to get things on their terms.
In theory, I’m NC with a number of exes, but actually I’m living my life. If I’d let them, they’d still be contacting me today. I haven’t disappeared – there was a clear breakup at some point but I had to opt out of the madness of them either trying to screw me or screw with me. If you’re not OK with the post breakup mind f*ckery whether it’s of yours or their making, you don’t need to wait around for them to be OK with you not giving them easy access. NC all the way. You might be friends one day (if they treated you decently in the relationship) but you’re obviously not friends now and ultimately, you have your own life to lead.
Phew – well that article hit a few cords – a good reminder for me. I’m the woman who ended up with a total assclown after my lovely husband died (long story) – anyway – the AC got in touch just a month ago – by email (wow, big boy, brave!) – all sweetness and enquiring on where i live now (serious!!) and how he had been “thinking of you last night…” – yeah right! anyway, I had been NC for months and ignored it – rightly.
But something came over me the next day – a rage! Now I am strong again and acknowledging his and my behaviour – I was very much aware that these emails were not going to stop… so I sent one, very concise and clear email – “DO NOT CONTACT ME” take and good luck.
Frankly I don’t care after all this time what he made of that – but I sure as hell do not want any more emails – even every 3 months.. it is an invasion of my space and my life and I am happier and healthier (mentally and physically) than ever. He is a head_f**ker and clearly has a mountain of issues… that thankfully are not mine to deal with through his games, lack of integrity, compassion, empathy – a true narcissist!
I will be honest – this has been soooooo HARD – so gruelling but also such an essential challenge in self love and respect and way over due.
BE STRONG – MOVE ON – self-love is the key x
grace
on 24/02/2011 at 7:01 pm
breath
i like this post. i’ve been reading and posting here a while and what i’ve noticed is the clarity – like yours – when we come out the other side. at the start of my journey i was confused, i didn’t understand natalie’s posts, i wanted to believe my MM was different, i wanted us to be friends (esp as we didn’t actually do eet), NC didn’t apply to ME, what harm is the odd text?. i was jumping through mental hoops trying to justify the unjustifiable. i was obsessed.
and now nearly six months down the line i really don’t give a **** about him. no confusion, no ifs and buts, it’s marvellous!
Spiral
on 23/02/2011 at 8:15 pm
Thank you for this wonderful clarification, NML!
I have been struggling with the NC/disappearing cross-over for a while. I think the problem with my situation is we’re BOTH emotionally unavailable so neither of us wants to stick to NC. Both of us are flip-flapping, disappearing, and then re-establishing contact after various periods apart. It’s not healthy, especially since he is married (eek, I know!) but I’m trying to accept the reality that I have to be the one to stick to NC.
But dammit, it’s tough! I’m not a negative person: I like to think of the positives in life and in people, so it’s very easy for me to forgive and forget and hope for a brighter future. This makes NC exceptionally difficult because of all the strong positive feelings and memories I associate with this man.
Thank you to Natalie and all the strong women here for providing me with inspiration and motivation.
Monique
on 23/02/2011 at 9:44 pm
Spiral!
What you wrote made me really nervous.
“It’s easy for me to forgive and forget and hope for a brighter future” because I am “a positive person.” Egads.
Standing up for yourself and seeing the reality of your situation and this man does not make you a negative person–it makes you a wise, healthy woman. Your AC is no doubt a charmer and, unlike his wife, I’m sure that he liked to show you the very best of himself all wrapped up in a fantasy package of how great he is and how good together you can be. How nice for him to be around someone who thinks that his excrement smells like flowers. Hard for him to give that up. And, buying into the fantasy of who you think he is, it is hard for you to give it up.
But do reread some of the material on this site. If the fruit fell so easily off the tree it was rotten to the core. Think about what you really have–a man who runs hot cold, who cheats on the woman he made promises to, and someone who uses you as an ego booster when he needs it. Ask yourself why you really haven’t been completely successful at NC. It’s not because you are positive/hopeful it is because this AC who cheats on his wife knows what to say to you to get what he wants and he is able to make you feel special and important. The real question is why are you looking for validation from an AC?
You’re so much better and stronger than that!
grace
on 24/02/2011 at 11:25 am
monique
yeah, so often i told myself i was being “patient”, “hopeful”, “faithful” when in fact i was being walked all over. patience, hope and faith are wonderful qualities, and so is love. but please don’t go chucking it into a bottomless pit of ingratitude.
even Jesus said don’t cast your pearls before swine.
outergirl
on 24/02/2011 at 8:50 pm
Hi Spiral!
‘This makes NC exceptionally difficult because of all the strong positive feelings and memories I associate with this man’
As someone who’s been there and to some extent; still going through it, look at it this way; if he was so wonderful he would have found a way for the two of you to be together properly. Not as a married man. I have memories of how much fun my eum was and I have the memories of how EU he was/is.om him. It keeps me focused in reality. Hope this helps you stay away from him.
Beth D
on 09/04/2011 at 3:39 am
I am in the exact same situation and also with a married man. I don’t know why I am having such a hard time with NC. I think it is because I also think of the good times but this man is truly a narcissist who runs hot and cold. Can put me in a compartment and pull me out with his charm when the timing is right. It is so sick. The roller coaster is so unhealthy. Thanks for making me see the light!!
Beautiful_1
on 23/02/2011 at 9:05 pm
I was in a 4 yr long disaster. It started while we were both ending our marriages and his only son was produced after my divorce and before his finalized….needless to say a emotional nightmare. His other children are all girls. Come to find out that he was denying me to everyone and claiming our son came out of a one time deal. After his divorced finalized he began playing the dating game and I became the fall back girl. No matter how hard I tried to get away hed always make his way back around. Using our son as an excuse always somehting to maintain contact. I finally got so fed up and angry I cut him off and told him was not going to speak to him except the day before he gets his son on his scheduled day and only when he confirms his pick up. In case of emergency only will I contact him. I was sooo devistated to know he was out there with all these women and he wouldnt acknowledge me. Im stuck with this situation but I will not allow it to control me anymore. I ran into this website by pure luck i typed in no contact just to see if what I felt I needed to do was being done by anyone else and Baggage Claim popped up. My sons father is 100 percent and more emotionally unavailable and I feel that everything here is what Im going thru. Whenever I have a weak moment I jump on here I am rebuilding and refocusing on what matters before I get into anything just for the sake of not being alone or to one up him because I dont want him to think im single because im waiting on him. He is the father of my youngest son and I do have feelings for him but I love myself more and I deserved way more than what he did to me. Im just very grateful for having found this site.
outergirl
on 24/02/2011 at 8:53 pm
My EUM has daughters and I see others like him have daughters. Do they ever think someday their girls could fall prey to men just like them??
live my gorgeous life
on 23/02/2011 at 9:11 pm
I went into no contact with an ex because the relationship was not one that really gave me the respect I needed or the love. I did the work on me in the time we were apart and just realised how much I totally love my own life. Now I am feeling some compassion for the guy. I have contacted him asking about meeting for a coffee as friends and he has been rather snippy with me implying I should get on with my life! The funny thing is , is that I AM getting on with my life and now I really don’t care if he doesn’t want any more contact himself. It would be cool to be friends but on the other hand I am okay with not being.
The great thing about no contact is that it gives you a chance to work on you for yourself and noone else and yes self love and the love affair you have with yourself is a good place to start in reconnecting with your own life. He said, “leave the past in the past” but the funny thing is for me time has moved along and he and that relationship is so far in the past that I find it hard to think about it without seeing all the holes in it, but he did have some good points! It sdid make me laugh though the way he seemed to think an offer of friendship was an offer to get back on the crazy train! When you can laugh about it, you know its finally over.
TJ
on 23/02/2011 at 9:18 pm
Another great read, thanks Nat.
This part resonated with me:
“If you’re not OK with the post breakup mind f*ckery whether it’s of yours or their making, you don’t need to wait around for them to be OK with you not giving them easy access. NC all the way. You might be friends one day (if they treated you decently in the relationship) but you’re obviously not friends now and ultimately, you have your own life to lead.”
The instituting NC is a way to take our lives back, keep the focus on US, rebuilding our lives without having to deal with mindf*&^ery. There was alot of that mindf*&^ery in the relationship with my ex, both during & after the break up, hence I had to go NC otherwise I would have continued to go nuts trying to understand the “impossible to understand”. I do for all intents & purposes feel that he was an EU future faker who wouldn’t commit to me, or commit to stay away from me – I also found out there was another woman involved… Now that I have had a year of NC I now struggle with remembering the “friends” aspects of the relationship… the laughing & joking around, we seemed to “bond” in that way moreso than I have ever connected with anyone before. I see him for what he is (AC), yet somehow this doesn’t stop me from thinking about talking to him. I don’t want to get off topic & I have read NML’s articles about staying friends with an ex, the do’s & don’ts on the matter… still, I struggle to keep from contacting him. I am wondering if this is normal or I have some weird affliction that keeps me from emotionally just severing this last tie. When/if my BR friends read this they are going to kick my butt as they have told me over & over to not talk to this guy. Do others feel this way? Am I crazy? If someone didn’t treat you right in a romantic fashion, does this necessarily mean that they won’t in a platonic way? Are the answers that black & white? Perhaps this is just a symptom of looking back & seeing & magnifying the good times in our minds – this is why a person has the compulsion to stay friends with an ex. Plus as human beings we crave to connect with others – and habits whether good or bad are HARD to break. All I know is that I know what I should do… following through is the hard part.
Best
TJ
Leigh
on 23/02/2011 at 9:42 pm
TJ,
How they treat you just after the honeymmon period is how they will treat you after a relationship (or so called relationship. In fact, in some instances it will be worse treatment.
Both my ex H and ex MM treated me badly post NC and breakup.
That doesn’t stop me knowing that – especially with the ex MM we had on some level a good friendship to start off with. It’s how he hooked me in.
The severing of the last tie will come, it will come when you least expect it. One day you won’t think about him as hard or often. It’s normal to want to talk to someone you once felt close to but it doesn’t mean it’s good for you. Keep that in mind and what will happen to your emotions afterwards if you DO speak to him. Take it from me it’s not a pleasant experience.
Learning
on 23/02/2011 at 10:09 pm
Generally no, they won’t treat you right platonically if they didn’t treat you right romantically.
In my case, I think he got used to seeing and interacting with me in a certain way. I’d try to institute “platonic boundaries,” but they wouldn’t stick, as he’d just do enough of what it took to weasel back into my affections and then act like an a-hole again. Don’t count on him being friends once you say you’re just “friends.”
TJ
on 24/02/2011 at 1:04 am
Leigh & Learning,
Thank you for your comments. On an intellectual level I know what you say is the truth of the matter, emotionally still hard to deal with – but like you said, one day when I least expect it, it won’t matter to me at all. It’s true, I have to remember that the ex hasn’t changed and the treatment I would receive would not be good. Going from friends to lovers then back to friends again is almost impossible even in the best scenario. Reinstituting contact with an ex AC would in effect be like jumping from the frying pan right back into the fire. Problem is, I have always liked the heat, been drawn to it…. Time to get out the water hose!! Severing all ties with someone that you connect with on even the smallest level can be so difficult… when hearts and emotions get thrown into the mix then it becomes a much more challenging task. I think one must buckle down when these cravings for contact come around – stay strong in our convictions to be good to US. Ask ourselves what is really good for me?? Not just at this moment but for the long run. They say past behaviour is the best predictor of future behaviour, so we have to realize nothing would be any different the 2nd, 3rd or 4th time around with an EU AC ex in any capacity.
TJ
ICanDoBetter
on 24/02/2011 at 12:30 am
TJ,
“If someone didn’t treat you right in a romantic fashion, does this necessarily mean that they won’t in a platonic way? Are the answers that black & white?”
I know it was that way in my situation. The AC broke up with me, suggested we be friends, and I unwisely agreed to it. He was just as bad a friend (actually worse) as he was a boyfriend.
Lack of respect is lack of respect, no matter what the context. It reflects that person’s character. It’s like saying a romantic relationship excuses bad behavior.
grace
on 24/02/2011 at 11:39 am
“If someone didn’t treat you right in a romantic fashion, does this necessarily mean that they won’t in a platonic way?”
Yes.
Yes, it is that black and white.
90% of our confusion, that I have felt too, is because we don’t want to believe the truth. When you see the truth, it sets you free. You’ll always be confused when you try to believe the unbelievable.
TJ
on 24/02/2011 at 5:47 pm
Grace & ICanDoBetter,
Thanks for your comments. Ok, let’s take it one step further… What if a substantial amount of time has gone by and you have accepted that the romantic relationship is over & there will be no rekindling of it… Is it possible then to have a friendship/acquaintance? What if both parties realize that they never should have been anything more than casual friends in the first place? I know that protecting ourselves from hurt and getting on with our lives is the #1 priority – I am just wondering if a person has a strong frame of mind about who they are, if it is possible to see (& accept) the AC personality traits in an ex, but still see them as human & a person instead of a monster that you have to rid yourself of? Maybe I am getting too deep here, but wouldn’t the ultimate in serenity and personal strength be to be able to move past the desire for a romantic relationship and beyond the past hurts & be able to talk to the ex without putting our own expectations -wants/needs/desires on them? If we truly have grown and have self love it could be argued that we wouldn’t want to be in any sort of contact with the exs… but it could be argued the other way too. I guess it is just what a person thinks they could handle, and of course you can only control what you do – just as Learning said, you can institute platonic boundaries but that doesn’t mean the ex will honor them. Sounds like I have come around to giving myself the answer – AC’s don’t honor anything or anyone, so probably best not to try having any sort of a friendship with the ex. Anyway, just me thinking out loud.
TJ
TJ, I’m not one to bullshit so I’ll be straight with you – if you have to intellectualise and psychoanalyse something as simple as being friends, you are looking for reasons to maintain a connection with him. Either you want to value your judgement and your decision to no longer be with him or you want to back away from that decision and have him in your life on some terms rather than *no* terms.
You can only speak for yourself and especially as you refer to him as an AC it’s best to cut the ‘we’ and speak for you. That means when you remove the projection, it is you that seems to think you’ve moved so far along and are mature enough to handle his good bits. You don’t need to demonise the guy but don’t disrespect him by only seeing what it suits you to see. He comes as a package with the not so good bits too. Denial has no place in romantic relationships no more than it does anywhere else in life. You want to swap jumping in the cage with the AC for just putting your hand in. You’re still going to get hurt.
As I ask of anyone who claims they were involved with someone who mistreated them: Why, if you’re calling them an AC do you want to be friends with them or are thinking about it? When you answer that question, you see where the work needs to be done on you. I actually don’t believe you fully believe he is an AC because you refer to ‘AC personality traits’ as if you think he’s a great person dabbling with being an asshole. How far you’re prepared to making excuses for him or denying aspects of him that are not so great, or glorifiying the better aspects are indicative of how deep you will get in with this guy. It’s not “probably” best not to be his friend – it is best not to be his friend.
Aimee
on 24/02/2011 at 7:19 pm
My old AC from 20 something years ago called me when we had been broke up about 1 year. Said”if I was gay, you’d be my friend”. I told him the truth – “Why would I want to be friends with you now, you couldn’t even be my friend when we were lovers”. The last one – broke up 7 months ago – he kept insisting that we be friends and I told him I couldn’t do that. I finally said – why is it so important to you that we be friends?” His reply – don’t you want to surround yourself with good people? Me – I already do, people who don’t lie to me or cheat on me!! PERIOD END OF STORY. Was he really your “friend” when you were together? If not, don’t you think a romantic relationship should be just as or more sacred? I do.
TJ
on 24/02/2011 at 7:39 pm
Hi Nat,
I appreciate you taking the time to respond, I know you are a busy lady. And as far as “no bullshiting” goes, I love your straight talk! 🙂
One good thing about my maturing is that now I am really contemplating any decisions I make in my life… before I wouldn’t have thought… I would have jumped right in and thought (hurt) later. I think this may be the reality of it – you are right in that I am not necessarily convinced that he is 100% AC. Is there any such thing as being semi-assclown? I think that this is where I need to do the work, because I should not be willing to accept ANY sort of assclownery whatsoever in my life. I do see the AC things that my ex did, so that isn’t the issue & I would not like a romantic relationship with him now. He has called me expressing concern when I was ill a couple times – maybe I am thinking from that he might not be 100% a piece of crap? I think it is a combination of things that has me analyzing things – the missing the friendship connection with him etc. I will need to read & re-read your response so that I can form a plan for this point forward. I do believe that I will make the right decision in terms of respecting and honoring ME though. Even if I were to make a mistake and stick my hand in the fire, I still know that I will get back up on the horse, I will always survive. I have come a long way thanks for BR and true friends.
Best,
TJ
grace
on 24/02/2011 at 6:40 pm
TJ
I don’t have anyone in my life who adds nothing positive to it. I’ll move jobs to get away from crazy bosses, I’ll ignore people I work with who don’t pull their weight and take advantage. I’ve even severely limited contact with my own mother. I don’t see that as making me weak. I felt WAY weaker when I even cared what these people think. To think I would even bend over backwards to appease them!
Anyone who keeps you awake at night (and not in a good way) needs to go! Life’s too short to keep an open door for all the users out there!
And put it another way – what’s so great about me that I can benefit these people? They stay away from me, I stay away from them. Everyone’s a winner!
TJ
on 24/02/2011 at 7:53 pm
@Aimee:
Surrounding ourselves with only GOOD people… that is a very good point.
@Grace:
“Life is too short to keep an open door for all the users out there”…. another great point.
And in response to this: “And put it another way – what’s so great about me that I can benefit these people? They stay away from me, I stay away from them. Everyone’s a winner!”
I have to say that I have to disagree, having ME in anyone’s life benefits THEM 100%!!! 😉
Thank you everyone for your responses. I think I am coming back down to reality and stopping the living in la la land…I am realizing my folly in thinking that there would be any benefit to keeping an association with my ex.
TJ
divalolo
on 23/02/2011 at 9:21 pm
Thanks for this post! It came a bit late for me — I realise now that a few years ago I disappeared on an assclown when I should have had an adult, clear conversation about why I was not going to have any more contact with him.
Still, he was definitely a Mr Unavailable. I see now that I could have terminated the relationship cleanly.
Hugs to you all!
Leigh
on 23/02/2011 at 9:35 pm
With the AC MM was able to go NC properly after a three year break!
When his wife went back home to him after admitting to being dumped in an affair he said and I said that he should be faithful. Fair enough I was expecting that and even suggested it prior to her coming back to his home (after he threw her out for the third time). But he didn’t want to let me go and offered me friendship. I knew this was booty call territory and I told him I would think about it. I never contacted him for months afterwards I just wanted to recover.
We contacted each other on several occassions, then he offered to buy he lunch when I was in his town. I accepted. He pressed the reset button. I said no to his sexual advances. He twisted that into he couldn’t have sex with me because of his morals (YUK! The Liar) I tried the friendship thing for one email only after he tried to manage down my expectations (and I didn’t even have any) I picked up the phone and said. “sorry, I care but I care about me more. I can’t do this.”
I have been NC since, that is five months officially with three months of Nats emails to remind me.
Yes, there is a clear difference between NC and disappearing. He would disappear to gain control, To manipulate. I went NC because I wanted to get the pigeon chest arsehole out of my life on a permanent basis. I have accomplished that. I do not expect him to contact me again. If he tries, he will get a stone walling!
NC is for me, and it’s been so easy to do because I have peace of mind and clarity! And to think, I let him suck the emotional life out of me just so he could get on his ego power trip. I have forgiven myself and I feel more alive and in touch with life after going NC.
MaryC
on 23/02/2011 at 11:51 pm
Leigh…I too let someone suck the emotional life out of me but have been NC for well over a year and yes just like you “I have forgiven myself and I feel more alive and in touch with life after going NC”.
Its nice to know you’re doing well too.
Learning From My Mistakes
on 24/02/2011 at 5:31 pm
Yes, there is a clear difference between NC and disappearing. He would disappear to gain control, To manipulate. I went NC because I wanted to get the pigeon chest arsehole out of my life on a permanent basis. I have accomplished that. I do not expect him to contact me again. If he tries, he will get a stone walling!
I appreciated your thoughts on the differences.
When we are clear with ourselves about why we are doing something (and especially something like NC that will help us in the long term) it helps us recognize when they do something opposite (like disappearing, and why they choose to do that) so that we continue in the course that will benefit us and keep our sanity.
Nevertoolate!
on 23/02/2011 at 9:54 pm
I don’t think you can be friends with an AC EVER! The relationships we have with these men is too intense, they are too twisted to trust, way bother? When you break up with a normal man, then you can have a normal platonic relationship, because the breakup was done with mutual respect, no drama, no hard feelings, but even this takes time, one person is ALWAYS hurt, it is never completely mutual. Although, I can only list 2 normal relationships being the classic FB girl that I am. Thanks to this site hopefully I will be a FB girl no more!
Miriam
on 23/02/2011 at 10:07 pm
I had to go NC on a casual realationship- almost 6months already (can’t believe it), I’m pretty much over it, though still sad about how things ended, I really really liked him, but it’s no use dwelling on it!
Linda F
on 23/02/2011 at 10:55 pm
My head knows all of this, and I totally agree, but how do you maintain the NC when you don’t hate the guy, when you have an understanding of your actions as well as his…….and NC is a tool to salvage what little is left?
I found myself involved with an old friend, we reconnected and got intimate after a 30 year absence from one another’s lives…. (never lovers 30 years ago, just friends…..) We were both unhappily married, and I eventually got divorced. HE NEVER SAID HE’D LEAVE HIS FAMILY, AND I NEVER WANTED HIM TOO……… He began to feel guilty about being a cheater, so he set a sexual boundary…..We tried to stay close because we were VERY GOOD FRIENDS…….I couldn’t get past not being lovers, and felt very abandoned by him…. and it effected our friendship….He started pulling away, but tried to maintain what he said was a friendship…….The man has HUGE GUILT ISSUES….
We just continued to hurt one another over and over again, we tried to find a balance, but couldn’t……I couldn’t be a friend, I despised his wife, who treats him like crap, and I just couldn’t keep it to myself, so the pain got to be too much and I needed a clean break, before we lost everything…..But I miss my friend, let me restate, THE FRIEND I HAD BEFORE we started to deteriorate… I feel like I SHOULD DISAPPEAR!!!! it hurts like hell when all I want to do is talk to my friend………and feel like we BOTH MADE A HORRIBLE MISTAKE BY CROSSING THE LINE……..
Is there hope of getting my friend back at some point, and how does this self love and relationship with ones self work??????
Linda I feel for you I really do but you’re living in the past. I appreciate that you miss your friend but you’re missing someone who isn’t around. The friend you want is from 30 years ago – a lots gone down in that time. Countries, continents, social norms and *people* have changed in 30 years – it stands to reason that he is not the same person and neither is your friendship. You have tried to pick up where you left off, not acknowledging who he is now and the choices he’s made. You don’t own him because you have a past with him. You can’t necessarily love him better because you knew him first.
You tried to find the balance and you couldn’t. You cannot be friends because you want more than what is on offer and you don’t respect his marriage and he *is* married. It doesn’t matter whether his wife is a bitch on wheels – that’s who he’s married to and it’s who he’s chosen to stay with. Acting like you think you can love him better and telling him how much you despise his wife just isn’t conducive to a friendship. Yes you have both crossed the line and you can’t take that back. Until you accept who is and the choices he has made, you cannot get your friendship back because it wouldn’t be friendship. I’m sorry you are hurting and I’m sure you miss him but this is not good for either of you. If you care about him that much, let him go. If you have any care for yourself, recognise how damaging it is to hold on to something that doesn’t exist *now* for so long. You deserve better than this.
Learning From My Mistakes
on 23/02/2011 at 10:43 pm
Thanks so much for this post, Natalie! This post and one quite a while back about it not being morally wrong to go NC when someone does not respect you in the “relationship”, (which the EU/MM I was with very briefly said we didn’t have-and I can see that now, I just didn’t want to hear it at the 3 month and again at the 5 month marks of our time together-but after 5 months, it did sink in that I needed to realize that he was letting me know the reality and I needed to opt out). We did not have 5 solid months or a relationship (I can see that and admit that now and NC has helped me to be able to), but would see each other once every three weeks (due to his busy work schedule, but when his work slowed down it did not become any more frequent with seeing each other as I had hoped and we had talked about) and a few phone calls and text messages in between-at his convienience, of course. His wife had left him about a year and a half ago to go back to her family overseas and took their 12 year old daughter with her. It was easier to think he was more available than he was. I told him once over the phone when he called that we would no longer be available to each other for phone calls or texts, as well as no more visits when he told me that his wife was coming back sometime during the holidays and that he wanted to be with her and make it work, especially since they have a daughter. I also had two opportunities before the Thanksgiving holiday to tell him in person (which I did) that I understood his decision to be with his wife and daughter and that we would no longer enjoy any more time together. Then I went NC from the Thanksgiving holiday (2010) through the first week after New Years, when after his texting and phone call attempts did not bring a response from me, he called me at work. He blocked his number from caller id and not every unknown number at work would be his, so I took the call-not realizing until hearing his voice who it was. One thing about being on the office line was that is was a brief call, but he felt he did not have the talk with me that he wanted, so I agreed to see him. (I knew it would be my Suck It and See time). He told me how his wife wouldn’t be coming back until the Spring or Summer this following year (2011) and he had wanted me to know that, that was why he was trying to reach me so much. He also told me he would start seeng me more often-once a week and be more available. I told him that since his wife would be coming back in his life at some point and he still wanted to be with her, there was no longer any reason for us to see each other. I didn’t belong. Of course, he said I did. After that visit he disappeared on me for two weeks and then sent a text message asking to see me in another week’s time. I ignored it and have been back on NC since. I had worried that I had been cowardly by going NC the first time (which lasted six weeks), even though I realized I had told him in person, but I think it was because NC felt uncomfortable and was very hard at first. In that time I had the chance to go through the withdrawls and tears and realize that not only was I able to live through it, but that the life I had before him with friends and family was (and still is) a good life, and that it really is better not being someone’s option, secret, fling, or passing time candidate. I also realized that I was no longer buying time since I made the decision to go NC and went back on it when he disappeared on me. It has been five weeks now and I have every intention of remaining this way. Thank you for all your posts, books, and FB site as these all prove very helpful, encouraging, and motiviating for us to stick to our decisions, educate ourselves, and continue to learn how to better understand ourselves so that we make better choices in the future. The comments from the Baggage Reclaim readers are also good in that we know we are not alone in going through these situations.
grace
on 25/02/2011 at 10:58 am
learning
you did the right think. NC is completely appropriate if he’s married. it’s doubly appropriate if he has children. give him a warning if you must but even if you disappear without a word it’s okay in my book.
Learning From My Mistakes
on 25/02/2011 at 5:15 pm
Grace,
Thank you so much for your encouraging, supportive comment. It helps me realize that it is ok to be where I’m at with him (in NC-even though I told him in person why I would no longer see him or take his calls or texts (I told him no more calls and texts over the phone when he called me, and only one time, so it was not a repeated discussion)-not wanting to be the OW, and not wanting to be the girl who cried wolf (I do want my actions to back up what I told him)- I did not tell him not to contact me anymore, so I guess he might think I just disappeared on him and that thought does make me feel bad, like I didn’t close things properly). I also realize it is for the best to not be with him while he is married and to realize, too, that this won’t play out like a romantic movie with him choosing to be with me, that is not the reality. Finding this site has really helped me see things much more clearly and understand things better than I have before.
Self Respect
on 23/02/2011 at 11:18 pm
This article was an amazing reminder. Realized over the past couple of years that I was choosing men who were emotionally unavailable because I was emotionally available as well. Going through the last break up with my ex I read this book called “Getting past your break up” and it makes you take your relationship inventory. After answering so many questions, you really start to realize how all of the relationships end up the same way. After years of talking with a therapist and lots of self discovery, I’m learning that no one deserves to be treated this way. It’s almost like once you start loving yourself and become emotionally available, you change and start seeing right through these ass clowns. My ass clown came back right after my break up and fell right back into the trap and I’m done. I do not want to disrespect myself like that anymore and will no longer be treated this way. I’m just wondering if I should stop contacting him all together or be straight forward with him and tell him I’m done. Your thoughts?
jennynic
on 24/02/2011 at 12:01 am
Self Respect,
I don’t know the details of your relationship, but I would tell him you want no further contact with him then enforce it. If you go NC without any explanation ( not saying he deserves one), he might call even more to try and figure out whats going on or even think you’re playing a game. Tell him your done with him and you want no further contact, then stick to it. Don’t respond to any attempts on his part. I tried to go NC many times and my EX AC would stalk me, break in, show up at 2 AM, etc. etc., but I gave in numerous times and then he never took me serious. Hope this helps. Natalie has a NC guide on this site, look it up. Good Luck.
rabbtifish
on 23/02/2011 at 11:55 pm
I dated a commitment-phobe for 3 long years. Our relationship never “grew” beyond the dinner on Wednesdays/Saturday night date night scenario and halfway in he started triangulating me by having an emotional affair with an “ex” who he viewed as “the one who got away.” Mind you, she doesn’t want him back as a boyfriend, but she loves to dangle that carrot in front of his nose for things like job referrals, loans, and companionship when none of the other guys she is dangling are available. Anyway, we had a pre-break-up in September and then 4 weeks later the same break-up conversation happened again with Mr. Unavailable saying he really, really wanted to stay friends. I told him that I thought friendship might be an optio at some point in the future, but I felt we should have 6 months of no contact first to adjust to our new status and begin moving forward as individuals. I told him he was welcome to drop me a line in six months and if I felt at that time like a friendship made sense, I’d respond. The next day, I went no contact. It’s really very easy. I blocked him from my home phone, my two e-mail accounts and blocked him completely on Facebook, as well as un-friending anyone on my page who was actually his friend first. I can’t block my cell phone, but I know his #’s so if he calls, I don’t answer. The real beauty of this plan (at least for me) was it took the “wondering when he might contact me” question out of the mix, it sent him a strong message that I accepted the breakup and was ready to move on, and it has allowed me time and space to heal and move forward with my own life. I have no intention of being his friend and I think he knows that. But my point in leaving this comment is that a lot of people say they “struggle” with no contact when in fact, no contact is easy. You just have to be strong in the knowledge that you really DON’T WANT TO BE CONTACTED.
Little Nickle
on 24/02/2011 at 12:33 am
I’ve been NC from an AC platonic friend for 4 months now. I chose to not give any explanation to him after the lies, lies, and more lies. He had extreme narcissistic tendencies and admitted to me once in a rare glimpse of the dark side he knew exactly how he treated people. Chilling.
However, after reading this, for the FIRST time in 4 months NC I am tempted to break NC to give him that final heave-ho explanation so that in my own mind I can justify based on what is said here that I just didn’t disappear. Game playing was not my intent, I JUST HAD DAMN ENOUGH OF HIM AND HIS EMOTIONAL ABUSE, and that was what it was, emotional abuse.
I thought it was okay to just go away aka “disappear into that NC good night” without explanation to practice self-care, but this entry has me questioning all I thought before. I must say that my AC ex-friend said no wrong, did no wrong, felt no wrong in his own grandiose mind while I said no right, did no right, felt no right. He was a master of projection, non-empathy, and using my words against me. In a public place he flew into me in what I firmly believe was a narcissistic rage after a very difficult time of loss for me. I honestly don’t know what he would have done if I had told him I was going away. Very unpredictable depending on how he chose to mind-f*ck me that day. He could have said “Cool” or “B*tch!”. Either way.
Did I do the wrong thing just disappearing from this clown or should I have given him a statement of my NC intentions which would have begged a reason(s) to be given? Are the NC rules relaxed/different for platonic friendships? He has not tried to contact me once since I went NC, although I suspect he has been tracking me once, so it’s not as if I’m ignoring his communication.
Thanks for any input the BR ladies might give me in this only moment of wobbly in four months NC.
Little Nickle
on 24/02/2011 at 1:54 am
I meant are the NC rules relaxed/different for platonic relationships in the sense of starting NC with an announcement or not. I did not mean to imply that the rules that govern NC all along are different for friendships. I hope this makes sense. Does a psuedo friendship with an AC who can only maintain surface attachments as he is a hollow shell with narcissistic tendencies demand the same “courtesy” of announcing where I’m going, which is far, far away from him forever more?
I hate that after reading this post I wonder if I went about NC the wrong way, which is in my opinion worrying about HIM and if HIS FEELINGS are hurt over my own after the thousand little emotional and self-esteem cuts he inflicted on me.
No you did the right thing – you refer to him as an AC, he raged at you and he’s obviously dangerous. It is pointless breaking NC now unless you have a desire to invite him to wreak havoc in your life. Leave it alone. Personally I would run from anyone like that for my own self protection.
Little Nickle
on 24/02/2011 at 10:50 am
Natalie, thank you for your words of encouragement and confirmation that I did the right thing. It means so much to me. NC onward march! 🙂
CC
on 24/02/2011 at 12:43 am
This is an interesting article Natalie as I am one year NC from an EUM that I was “in love” with but never had an actual relationship with. It was casual and I was waiting for him to want a committed relationship with me… when the pain of it never coming to fruition finally had hurt so bad, I disappeared and instituted NC. I never said a word of why I opted out, I just did. The interesting thing is for some reason I still struggle with that decision, it’s like I can’t get over the guilt of just disappearing. A lot of it I suspect is that with all the work I’ve done on myself in 12 mos I know I could actually handle a conversation like that now without letting my emotions get the best of me. Back then I couldn’t, I would always be a crying mess (which he had already witnessed when I confessed my feelings and wants in the past). So part of me did not want to have that crying conversation again, I was embarassed and mad that I did it once so what was the point in doing it again? In my heart I felt that he knew and so I was within my rights to just bail. Even if he did “know” he acted like had no clue what the problem was and so that exacerbated my guilt and worrying about how I was being perceived.
So I guess I would be interested from you all in your thoughts on reconciling with myself the 1. guilt of disappearing and 2. the fantasy of meeting again “one day” in which we have an adult conversation about ourselves and he’s gained as much clarity about his issues as I have over the period of NC.
You’re projecting – you’re assuming because you’ve grown that he has. It was a casual dalliance and also a lot of it was in your head – the NC here is actually for your own self preservation. If you hadn’t, you would have continued to throw yourself under the bus – you would be feeling v humiliated.
Leave it alone, get behind your decision and stop fantasising about him because no matter what you’ve done in that time, you are still fantasising about someone from a casual relationship that didn’t progress. To try and have a discussion now is to not only seek validation and attention plus he’s getting on with his own life. You pursuing your fantasy will have him thinking ‘Wtf?’. Leave it alone.
grace
on 24/02/2011 at 11:52 am
CC
you’re a bloke, you know a girl who is attractive. you don’t want a proper relationship but are happy to shag her and hang out with her. one day she disappears. oh well, you think, she was getting a bit clingy. in fact you’re relieved. plus there’s that babe you’ve been eyeing up at the gym. not to mention the new girl at work.
what’s you think is not what he thinks.
charla
on 25/02/2011 at 1:28 am
Hah! Hilarious Grace 🙂 I knew that’s what my xEUM was thinking, likely weeks before he dumped. Thank goodness I had no illusions of growth on his part 😉
Dawn
on 24/02/2011 at 2:40 am
Perfect timing again. I am in week 8 of no contact for what seems like the hundredth time. This time is different though. I feel “done ” now thanks to 6 months of therapy and I want to move on. I have cut all ties with him, blocked him and cut ties with his family in order to do so.
I shared with my family some of the insanity that was our interaction and have asked them to also cut ties with him so that he is no longer allowed to cross my boundries which he was always so proud to bust through. How ever I have found that he is still contacting them and they recipicate. I feel betrayed by them. If your own family doesn’t have your back who will? I learned through therapy that I was interacting with someone who has serious narcissistic tendencies. And because I know him so well I know he loves that he can still punish me from afar. How am I suppose to handle this? I am trying really hard to not get dramatic. I am pissed and I want him to go away.
grace
on 25/02/2011 at 11:03 am
dawn
tell your friends and family you don’t want to hear his name mentioned nor do you want to know his business, what he said, nothing. if they mention it, get up and go home. they’ll get the message. if they don’t, get new friends and consider whether your family is acting in your best interests.
if they want to engage with him, let them. just make sure it has nada to do with you.
shoegal101
on 24/02/2011 at 2:52 am
I had a fabulous 8-hour first date with a guy. We made plans for a second date and texted the following day. Then, he disappeared forever. He’s the only “disappearing” dude I’ve encountered thus far…however, I do agree that the NC rule works wonders, especially after a break-up that YOU didn’t necessarily want. In time, wounds heal and perhaps a friendship can emerge after all the pain and resentment are placed with forgiveness and the reality that some relationships are just stepping stones to the ONE relationship we are all seeking.
Allison
on 24/02/2011 at 12:22 pm
Shoe,
I don’t understand? Are you saying you wish to be friends with this guy? Didn’t he disappear after you made plans for another date? Sounds like a flakey individual to me.
debra
on 24/02/2011 at 3:28 am
Disappearing is what people in relationships do when they don’t want to face the consequences – they don’t want to have the formal goodbye, they don’t want to have another talk about the relationship, they don’t want to deal with their issues.
No contact is what people in relationships do when they accept the reality of the relationship and it isn’t good. You have worked on it (at least to the extent the other person is willing to), you have tried to address what is wrong and you have run out of options. The two people in the relationship are in different places and there is no future, no hope, no point in continuing.
It’s just my opinion but disappearing is the act of a coward, while NC is an act of bravery or necessity.
Movedup
on 24/02/2011 at 8:01 pm
Debra – could not agree more. Cowards disappear rather than face up. The key here with an EUM/AC/NARC is they don’t necessarily see it that way. So there is no sense in it AND no sense in chasing it either. Its useless to try an analyze it. Believe me I have tried only to fail to understand again and again. Until I realized one very important thing – If I could comprehend him – I would be just like him. I don’t get it but I don’t have too either. He’s not my problem anymore. NC is for me and let it stay that way.
Annie
on 24/02/2011 at 3:44 am
Thanks Nat!!! This helped me soooo much!! MUAH!!!
Jo
on 24/02/2011 at 3:56 am
I just came upon this site today. When I first read this thread it brought me to tears. I can’t believe how many women are in the same boat as me. I have been involved with an EUM off an on for 2 years. We started as ‘friends’, then became lovers. His wife died 3 years ago very tragically. I think I have been making excuses for him and feeling very sorry for him because of that. But the bottom line is, he’s unavailable, self-absorbed and so far has not respected my request for us to not stay in contact. It’s tricky, because when he comes back I feel so bad for him. His wife left him with 2 young children.
I need some help. How can I practice NC with this man if I can’t stop feeling so much empathy for him? I know it’s the right thing for my own mental and emotional sanity, but I can’t seem to switch off my caring and nurturing instinct?
Lynn
on 24/02/2011 at 7:39 pm
Hi Jo,
Go through Natalie’s posts specifically on No Contact. They deal with your exact question. You can do it!
ICanDoBetter
on 24/02/2011 at 9:20 pm
Jo,
There is a caring and nurturing, and then there is co-dependency. And they can often LOOK the same. It’s one things to have empathy for the situation he is in. That is what makes you such a good person. But how much good are you doing him to enable him to continue being disrespectful?
jupiter23
on 24/02/2011 at 4:26 am
I need to go no contact.
I feel like I give really good advice but am currently in a situation that with an EUM that has been draining my energy. I’m about to graduate from graduate school and am job hunting and have a million things to do. And my problem with this person is just making me crazy and listless.
We are currently long distance. I want (wanted) to be together when I graduate and for us to move to the same city. He is wishy washy. He’s not ready to get married (I never said anything about marriage). He is so selfish. I know this story. I know to get out. I was actually doing pretty good for a few days, had gained some acceptance, had felt like I wasn’t even angry with him and was letting go. Then he called and now I’m back in the craziness as of tonight. Once he feels like he has me again, he again becomes an unfeeling horrible man. He acts very indifferent.
But he wants to visit and he wants me to pay for his ticket. I waiver about wanting him to visit. And I sure as hell cannot even believe he wants me to pay for his flight. I will never pay. But I feel like saying no puts an ultimate end to this situation. I can’t have one more conversation about the same sh*t. I just want to leave. But I’m scared. I, deep down, must not believe I deserve better. I feel like an idiot for being in this situation again.
Do I really even want this person? There is no way I could. I must just want to win. But how it feels like I want him! Wow, I didn’t think I would ever be here again. I can’t remember how I left before. I’m so tired and wish someone else could pick up my life for me, but I know it has to be me. I can’t express the depths of my sadness and anger.
Minky
on 24/02/2011 at 10:55 am
Hey Jupiter,
I really feel for you. I know exactly how you feel! You have several options, but the only one you really want is: option z – where he has a total change of heart and becomes this perfect guy who is utterly devoted to you. That’s not going to happen and i think you know that.
This guy is totally taking you for granted and you are enabling him to do it by continuing to engage with him. I was in exactly the same boat (long distance, blowing hot and cold, swanning in and out as he pleased, not caring about me or my life and just about himself and the attention he needed). Good for you for refusing to pay for him to come see you – does he think you’re a charity for half-hearted, commitment phobes?! You have to break the cycle and keep it broken. It’s the only way. Yes it will hurt, it will be difficult, you will miss him, but like i’ve said before in other posts – it’s like coming off drugs. You have to go through the detox and withdrawl to come out the other side and start fresh, you can’t kick any habit if you’re still dabbling from time to time.
You can do this! I did and it’s the best thing i ever did. I am at the point where i don’t give a damn about him, where he is, what he’s doing – i don’t care! I’m with a great guy now who treats me properly and wants to be with me. I would never have found him if i were still messing about with my EU ex.
Best of luck to you 🙂
grace
on 24/02/2011 at 11:34 am
jupiter
you’re being kinda wishy washy too, to be fair. moving to be with someone is a major step and it’s quite logical for him to see it as the first rung towards marriage. in a way, he is seeing that more clearly that you.
do you want to get married one day? cos if you do, look for someone who is at least not allergic to the idea.
don’t downgrade what you want to fit in with whatever crappy situation you are in, that’s the slippery slope to nowhere.
and yes, do NOT pay for his ticket!!!
lynne
on 24/02/2011 at 4:33 am
i screwed up and was drunk and made contact after i did NC successfully.
i even asked to go out. i did not get a friday night invitation, i got a weeknight one instead, and declined it and then basically told him … i would not bother anymore.
i was so flushed with embarrassment at myself. he did not respond when i said i was only free on fridays. so another mini reconnect and another mini break up. i told myself: it doesn’t matter. the only people that something like this matters are the ones who are really worth something. he was not.
so i do not sweat it. initially, i was mortified by him blowing me off. but it’s ok. i will just resume NC and work it out. it reminds me that experiences with him are poor ones and best avoided. NC is very helpful and pounding home the theory also helpful. NC gives us a chance to reign our texting fingers in and grab back our self esteem.
it forbids us from chasing … and that is very very important. some chase, understandable. but chase too much and you become a stalker, almost a nut job. you need your self esteem and self respect for YOURSELF. so thanks for this board because it’s saved me once again … going back into it would have been a criminal mistake and at least i saved myself from being involved with him again at a bad time in my life. i got singed and it was a good reminder and warning to stay away from him. so it’s OK. i needed that reminder.
lynne
on 24/02/2011 at 4:38 am
i just want to add …. anyone who is sad their AC is not in contact … i.e. doesn’t want them enough to call and bother them, be glad that they don’t!
thing is: these are BAD experiences that leave you feeling BAD, bad about yourself, life and him.
feeling bad sucks and it not necessary. not having contact with someone who doesn’t give a damn about you IS A GOOD THING. i am feeling BAD again, totally unnecessary, because i was in touch with him. i can’t wait to be NC for a long time again. it saved me.
ICanDoBetter
on 24/02/2011 at 3:32 pm
lynne,
A couple of things you said hit home for me. When your ex didn’t offer you a friday night invitation, it reminded me of my ex. Even after we were broken up he wanted to spend time with me, even on Friday or Saturday nights. I thought it meant something to get such a prime spot. All it meant was that he had nothing (or no ONE) better to do!!!
And yes, sometimes, I still think about what a rush it was to hear from him. But I have to remind myself that I was the one who said “I can’t do this anymore”, and the fact that he does NOT call is really a sign of respect.
It is a blessing that your fall from the wagon didn’t amount to anything. It’s good that you were able to “suck it and see” without it actually going any further. At least you had the sense to turn down his “weeknight” offering, even in your drunken state, and now in your sober frame of mind you see it for what it really is. That is way more insightful that he will ever be!
Sandy
on 24/02/2011 at 5:42 am
My AC pulled the disappearing act over two months ago and I’m still dying for closure. When I texted him asking why he set me up for a coffee date, then left the country his only answer (20 minutes later) was “I don’t know”. Upon returning back to the country, he kept texting me as if nothing had gone wrong. I’m still having a hard time letting go and having no contact. Reading these posts is really helping alot. Thanks!!
Audrey
on 24/02/2011 at 10:14 am
@Sandy: Not getting closure is difficult and it’s a trap to look for closure from an assclown. You wont get it cos assclowns do not understand common decency and are ego maniacs – they don’t see your needs. What he did was typical of a narcissist – he thought he could pick up where he left off as if nothing happened. This type of behaviour is outrageous in the extreme, Sandy. Decent, nice people do not behave like this.
You must get closure yourself and you do that by having no contact with him. Have you thought about changing your number so you won’t be tempted to contact him and also it will block him off from you so he can’t get through to you.?
grace
on 24/02/2011 at 11:57 am
sandy
do you really expect someone who doesn’t know why they do things to give you closure?
Tulipa
on 24/02/2011 at 8:42 am
I am confused
I say I want no contact (not to him just to myself) and then I don’t stick with it. He says he wants to be friends and he will call etc. but I don’t get a thing he has only once in the past six months done one thing he said he would do. Yet I don’t leave the situation alone I frustrate myself over this issue and a lot of what was said in the above post could apply to me more than him.
Think I need to re visit this post for my benefit. It feels like he is the normal one and I am the one with the issues.
Audrey
on 24/02/2011 at 12:20 pm
@Tulipa … why bother with someone like this? Even as a “friend” he’s unreliable and does things on HIS TERMS ONLY. It takes a a bit of deterimination to stick with nc but it is well worth it in the end. He’s only wrecking your head anyway, no good is coming out of responding to him.
ICanDoBetter
on 24/02/2011 at 3:45 pm
Tulipa,
It often does feel that way with AC’s. I agree with you, we do need to look at our own issues, but don’t take on his as well. Someone consistently not following through on their word is not normal. It’s easy for us to think like that, because we feel remorse for our actions and how they affect others. Since he does not seem bothered by it, you give him too much power by assuming his actions must be OK, since he feels no remorse. Since when do people with no compassion get to be the moral compass for right and wrong?
Minky
on 24/02/2011 at 11:04 am
Hi Sandy,
i’m so sorry this happened to you and of course you’re baffled.
He has given you the answer, however, ‘he doesn’t know’. Guys like him do these things because they only think about themselves, they don’t feel guilt, they are like selfish children. He didn’t feel like meeting you, for whatever reason, and so he didn’t. He didn’t care about your feelings, that you would be hurt, or confused. He didn’t consider how his actions would affect you. He knows he can disappear and come swanning back and you will be there. Be grateful that this mentality is totally baffling to you – that you’re the kind of person who could never do this.
You are too good for him and he knows it. Cut him off, stop trying to figure him out and focus on indulging yourself, focus on the people who treat you with respect. They deserve your time and effort – he doesn’t!
Hugs! 🙂
live my gorgeous life
on 24/02/2011 at 5:44 pm
Hi Sandy,
I would agree with Minky when she said
– stop trying to figure him out and focus on indulging yourself, focus on the people who treat you with respect.
It’s never worth the effort to try to figure out someone else’s actions especially if they are really very different from your own, but it is worth spending time and effort to think about your own life and how you invited an ass clown in in the first place.
runnergirlno1
on 25/02/2011 at 1:46 am
I’m not sure where precisely I fit in this thread because I fit in in almost every post. I think I’ve done both NC and disappearing. I did NC and when it was working, I slipped and fell off NC for two telephone conversations. Then when he blew hard and I knew I could slip into other woman status at the drop of a dime, I disappeared. I don’t know if I’m in NC or disappearing. The best description I can find here is post break up mind f**kering. The minute I broke NC, he came right in for post break up mind f**kering. My gut sensed that I was headed back to other woman status because he “so missed me” but would not do anything to change things because he was “too messed up”. Thus, I disappeared. Or is it NC? Perhaps, someone could lay out the post-break up mind f**kering. Is all I know, is it didn’t feel right and I could never, ever, be that woman, the other woman again. Thus, no response or NC or disappearing? He doesn’t get me, literally and metaphorically. Don’t know if I’ve disappeared. Don’t know if I’m in NC. Don’t know if it matters??? Your thoughts?
Trust me Runnergirl, you’re NC. I’ve been where you are. If someone was hounding me to maintain the status quo of keeping me as a spare *and* is married, I’d damn well cut contact and disappear too.
runnergirlno1
on 25/02/2011 at 4:48 pm
Okey doke…thanks for the clarification. You have such a great way of putting things. “A spare”…pretty graphic. YUCK! And by the way you are right, each day of NC does get better. I’m establishing my own routine and getting my life back. It is interesting getting a chance to focus on me and what I want to do. Additionally, I’ve noticed that my life is drama-free now that he is out. It is nice.
Folks out there in the first few weeks of NC, hang in there. It really does get better. Everyone who helped me through those first weeks, thank you. “A spare”, that’s going to keep me laughing all day.
Gina
on 25/02/2011 at 2:46 am
I remember trying to go NC with a person I had dated, started off blowing hot, then cold which is when I basically finally trusted my gut to break it off. Of course he wanted to ‘remain’ friends… as Nat says to stay in your life because they are uncomfortable with endings and want it on their terms. I remember how although my instincts knew it wasn’t right, didn’t trust in them enough, so was easily guilted feeling like I was being a bad person for not wanting to remain friends… Then I finally got with it and the reason why I felt so strongly against it, is because he wasn’t capable of being a ‘friend’ and he was just trying to demote me to that level and still try to dabble in and out… now, I’m looking back and shake my head it’ s funny when they are barely there for you when you are ‘dating’ if you want to call it that but as soon as you try and leave you all of a peak their interest… like you are a little cat toy or something.
Nevertoolate!
on 25/02/2011 at 4:14 am
these ACs truly “don’t know” what they do wrong. They feel because they are wishy washy and their “promises” are not set in stone, then they have done nothing “wrong”. So, really, no matter what you do you can’t get through to them and ever win, Walk away and realize that you are the sane one and the better person, there is someone out there who comprehends English (or whatever it is you speak). And, can understand a whole conversation, not just his “skewed” interpretation. Practice NC, I know it is hard, focus on YOU and move on.
Melanie
on 26/02/2011 at 8:49 am
Nevertoolate!: “there is someone out there who comprehends English (or whatever it is you speak). And, can understand a whole conversation, not just his “skewed” interpretation.”
Good point there. This selective hearing thing, it’s a trait I’ve observed. I’ve noticed when I see a pattern in a boyfriend, or even just a female I know, where they often *seem* to ‘misunderstand’ or ‘misinterpret’ your meaning…. People like that are best to be avoided. With some, it gets to the point where you honestly wonder if they are doing it quite intentionally and are simply playing a game they consider fun. They twist your meaning, (often over minor and inconsequential things), watch you get frustrated, and derive pleasure from it. I think maybe it’s a sign of mental illness. A form of gaslighting. And if you remember the movie the husband was trying to make his wife crazy, but it was actually he who was mentally ill. I will give one example of this. I had a female friend who used to ‘misinterpret’ my meaning, and it became more frequently. For example, she and I were going to watch a late afternoon event outdoors. I knew that one side of the arena faced the late afternoon sun making it almost impossible to watch the show. So I mentioned ‘Let’s be sure to sit on the side where we won’t have the sun in our eyes’. It was a very simple statement. Not complex or difficult to understand. Yet she *seemed* very perplexed and upset by it. After that, she proceeded to badger me every time I was planning to do anything outside, asking if I’d be ok since I was sooo sensitive to the sun, she “knew” I didn’t like being outside in the sun, I should see an eye doctor about my over-sensitive eyes, etc, etc. (I actually did see an eye doctor, and he said no, it’s normal to have light sensitive eyes, nothing abnormal going on with my eyes at all!) Well she was pretending not to understand me. I enjoy the sun, and the outdoors. Just don’t enjoy watching an event while the sun is beaming near sunset directly into my eyes. That’s normal. MOST people don’t prefer that. She twisted it around and wouldn’t stop trying to make it into something completely different, and for no apparent reason. She did a lot of other things like that, too, and we never fought but I stopped returning her calls. Not sure if she knows why or not.
ICanDoBetter
on 26/02/2011 at 2:16 pm
Wow, I have a couple of female friends who do the exact same thing you are describing! I always assumed it was a power struggle, or a way to mock my wants and needs, in order to put me down. But then I would look at them and wonder why they felt so insecure as to do that.
It’s no wonder I can feel so isolated at times, especially when I am feeling down. Because these are not the type of people to offer support. If they will mock you for the simplest things, then I don’t feel safe in sharing anything deeper.
I am not surprised that I find myself surrounded by such people. After all, if I choose AC’s and EUM’s in romantic relationships, then I probably choose those types of people for friendships, too.
Melanie
on 26/02/2011 at 6:10 pm
Icandobetter: “I always assumed it was a power struggle, or a way to mock my wants and needs, in order to put me down.”
Yes I think you’re right it’s like they’re mocking us. And over something so commonplace and inconsequential. I had an ex boyfriend who used to do that kind of thing to me too. He’d always declare “Ohhh, I know how you feel about XYZ topic…” And go on with an incorrect synopsis of how I actually felt about that topic. All based on some minor comment or reaction of mine at some point in the past. And even when I’d repeatedly correct him on his assumption, it was like he never heard that part. He’d just continue on over and over again repeating the same lie, as he preferred to be the one telling my life story, rather than allowing me to do that myself. Very bizarre behavior. It’s like they’re trying to tell you that THEY know you better than YOU know you!!
Used
on 26/02/2011 at 7:56 pm
Uhm, what they are really trying to so is get you to second-guess yourself, b/c that is what they do all the time…with themselves.
After all, professional vampires want to make everyone else one of them, too.
Melanie
on 26/02/2011 at 9:58 pm
Used, Vampires, that’s a good analogy! I guess it is kind of like the ‘misery loves company’ dynamic. I’d rather just have a normal interaction and not be miserable but I guess these people like creating drama from nothing.
ICanDoBetter
on 26/02/2011 at 10:02 pm
Used,
You are absolutely right about them second guessing themselves. They are looking for external validation, and when we have a different opinion, they start to question their own beliefs. So, then they mock us and exaggerate what we said, or pick on us for little things like Melanie mentioned, so they feel one-up again.
And, what you said about them wanting to make us one of them is true. I know that I have found myself getting irritated and nit-picking back at them, so I become like them, too. It can become very toxic, if you let it.
Confused
on 25/02/2011 at 8:49 am
This site has really resonated with me and made me think about my actions and my history, but I really don’t know what to do about my current situation.
It’s complicated, and genuinely not the guy’s fault. It’s sort of a work thing, and he’s working away going through a very stressful and highly pressured training period and has always been completely up front and honest that he can’t focus on a relationship while he’s going through that.
He doesn’t sleep with me, and goes out of his way to avoid situations where that might happen (ie, being in my house when he’s had a drink) because he doesn’t think sex would be fair on me.
We’re very close friends, while he’s away I have lots of contact with him and I am trying to be as supportive as I can while he goes through something that’s very difficult. He rings me pretty much every week, texts when he can and makes time to see me when he comes home for a visit. He’s never tried to stop me moving on, and has previously said if we’re both still single when he’s available, he’d like to pursue a relationship with me. That’s 4 months away.
The problem for me is, having contact with him is making it hard for me to move on. I don’t know if he still feels the way he said he did (I can’t talk to him about it, he finds emotional conversations pretty difficult at the best of times and he’s already under an enormous amount of stress and pressure right now) so I think the best thing would be for me to move on from him.
The problem is, while I’m still in contact with him, it’s incredibly difficult to move on. Plus if I met another man, how would I explain having this very close friend who I have strong feelings for and have slept with in the past? I either have to start a new relationship with a lie, or things are going to get very complicated!
No Contact doesn’t seem fair. He hasn’t done anything wrong, he’s always been honest with me, and he has told me that my support has meant a great deal to him and really helped. I can’t just suddenly withdraw that.
I also can’t sit around on the off chance that he’ll still feel the same in 4 months time (which will be about 10 months since we last had an honest conversation about how we felt, things are very unlikely to be the same!) so I really don’t know what to do for the best!
I think my ideal situation would be for my feelings to change, and for it just to be an uncomplicated friendship. I don’t know how to orchestrate that though 🙁
Confused, hard as this may be to hear, a lot of the confusion is really of your own making. He is being clear – he is an unavailable man, he doesn’t want a relationship and he has ‘obstacles’. It is not a case of that he can’t focus on a relationship right now, it’s that he doesn’t *want* to. You’re making it sound like it’s beyond his control – he is not the only person on earth to have a stressful job or training period.
Your feelings have not abated and you are waiting around for him. It is not a case of that he tells you that he ‘can’t’ or that he doesn’t feel the same way and then your feelings melt away – you have to have some distance, accept that he is unavailable, focus on you and get on with your own life. He wants to have the best of both worlds, and actually so do you.
You’re not going to meet someone else and even if you did, it would be an incredible disrespect. Why on earth would you be meeting someone else without processing your feelings about this guy and grieving the loss of what you thought could happen, but didn’t? Why on earth would you get involved with someone else and tell them that you have feelings for someone else?
You have to do the work and get over this guy. You can’t have your cake and eat it. You want to avoid accepting what has happened and you want to have license to start up something somewhere else without dealing with your feelings which makes you unavailable.
No Contact isn’t always about doing something wrong – many people who get in touch with me, go No Contact because they realise that their feelings outpace what is on offer and they can’t deal with them and they can’t just be friends. If you could, you’d be just friends already and you would have accepted it. Fact is, yes you started out as friends but you are no longer ‘friends’ because you want more – friends don’t want to screw each other and have a romantic relationship.
You are not a careers advisor or an armchair psychologist – if you and he are really the friends that you believe you are, he will be totally understanding of you having some time out. If he is your thoughtless Mr Unavailable trying to get an ego stroke and a shoulder to lean on, you will find that he will be reluctant to let you go.
Why is that? Because *he* is OK with the situation so he just assumes that *you* are. This will be the real litmus test of the friendship – is he thinking about you? Is he empathising? If he is, there will no issue with you backing off even if it makes him uncomfortable because he will recognise it is necessary to keep your friendship in the medium to long-term.
If you want your feelings to change, go ahead and change them.
grace
on 25/02/2011 at 10:37 am
Confused
NC is not about “punishing” the other person. It’s about removing oruselves from a situation that hurts us.
Even though our low self esteem puts us in these positions, we conversely think TOO MUCH of ourselves by imagining that these poor helpless men cannot cope without our amazing presence.
Er, they have CHOSEN to limit the relationship. They can cope very well without us and they know it otherwise they wouldn’t be playing fast and loose with us. Someone who doesn’t want to lose you will make it clear that a) you are in a relationship b) there is fidelity on both sides c) he has a future to offer you. If your support means that much to him, he would put himself on the line, not hold you at arm’s length and reap all the benefits without any cost to himself.
And for what it’s’ worth, President Obama got elected and rules the United States while maintaining his marriage. And I expect they have sex too though that’s none of our business.
Minky
on 25/02/2011 at 11:37 am
Grace – I SO have to remember that President Obama line. That is so true!
Aimee
on 25/02/2011 at 6:56 pm
Hahaha – Oh Grace that was good!!! LMAO
Marilyn
on 25/02/2011 at 12:25 pm
I am (once again) trying to enforce NC with my 8-plus year assclown and it is SO DIFFICULT. We have a 4 year old daughter together and he calls my home at least twice a day to speak to my daughter on the speaker phone and/or webcam, and he comes to visit our daughter a couple times per month (because he lives several hundred miles away). After years of struggling to move on, I have been successful at extricating him from my home for the most part during his visits (although he always ends up on my couch at some point). He declared that he wants to start sleeping with other women so I told him that he was no longer to speak to me (except about our daughter) or be at my home. He constantly disrespects these boundaries. He keeps trying to talk to me, call me, send me messages through our daughter — all AFTER he said I need to move on b/c he’s ready to find someone else. He is the quintessential EU AC who cannot commit to being together or being apart. I have read the article on this site about enforcing No Contact when you share a child with your assclown but this is a major, ongoing struggle. Thanks for the wonderful information and encouragement on this website and allowing me to vent.
Trying to Move On
Audrey
on 25/02/2011 at 1:07 pm
@ Marilyn, I feel for you. it’s very difficult if you have child because you know he’ll be in your life in some capacity. i don’t understand why it’s a problem that he wants to sleep with other women if you are no longer in a couple…. ..if it was me, personally i’d be glad because he’ll be focused on the new woman and will have less time to be pestering you.
If he’s persisting in contacting you for his own gain, tell him once and once only, that you are not engaging with him any further except if it concerns your daughter, as you are moving on. I mean, he’s said this himself to you so use it to your advantage i..e you don’t want to engage with him because as he’s said himself, you must/want to move on. And if he keeps up the contact after that, just ignore it. He’ll eventually give up if he realises you are serious about it.
You MUST show him you are serious about not engaging with him by IGNORING HIM. It;s the only thing these assclowns understand!
audrey
on 25/02/2011 at 6:58 pm
hello ladies. another pointed post. i posted on post about lying written in early dec 2010. it gives brief background. the dude that had me in a twist always ran after me in a werid mr. big way (no flatter there. he is the big banker and me the freelance woman with good shoes. and that being the last comparison) he left for asia on “extended travel”. a blessing yes. but i found he moved to asia with a work colleague who puts him in her profile pic (facebook be damned. i have since deleted my account) #1. he said oh i never date colleagues. lie #2. he tried his best to well have a little roll in the hay (ala nyc style.. no hay). the DAY BEFORE HE LEFT and I am thinking NO WAY and I didn’t but i am so angry (at me) for not calling him out and then having him give me how much he cares for me and Oh wel will keep in touch. “don’t worry he said. it’s all good” no its not and i am in need of lady advice. grazie ciao… a
Catherine
on 26/02/2011 at 6:25 am
I am so glad I found this site. It has helped me so much. My question is this.. How do you go NC with a man you have 2 children for? And he is a big AC. He lies, he cheats, he is verbally and emotionally abusive. Around 6 months pregnant for my last child (she is 3 months old now) i went NC. For the 7 years we were together I had NEVER gone NC even after the lies and cheating.. he even made up some story that he had another child so he could be around an EGF with a valid excuse. It felt..well..good to go NC. I cried, I healed, I felt almost happy..as happy as I could be about to be a single mother of 2 kids. And then the baby was born and I contacted him and I was sucked right back into his vortex. I have only seen him a handful of times but now he has disappeared. Is it a blessing in disguise? The last thing he said to me is he will make it by when he makes it by and he disconnected his phone. Should I file for child support and reinstate NC? I don’t know what to do. He has never helped me financially. And I really don’t know if he will show up or not. He doesn’t seem concerned about the children or me. Please help.
Reinstate NC, file for child support if you can but if he has already had two kids with you that he doesn’t support, to look for him to make the third the exception to the rule and change the habit of a shady lifetime is foolhardy. Get on with your life. You’ve been raising your children alone anyway. I’m not saying it’s ideal – I’m saying it’s reality. He is not partner material and while some Acs will do their bit for their children, yours is not one of those and I wouldn’t keep testing the theory by having any more kids with him.
If he wants to have a relationship with the children at some point, you guys can work that out, but for the sake of yourself and your kids, stop having any sex /relationship with this man. Any arrangements made should be in writing and unless his contact is regarding the children, don’t bother with him
Catherine
on 26/02/2011 at 3:39 pm
Thank you for your help. I should have explained myself better. When I was 6 months pregnant I ended the relationship and went NC. I haven’t slept with him since. It’s the promises he makes and doesn’t keep that keeps me hopeful he will be a father and maybe something to me. I just wasn’t sure if I should keep him in my life and try to work things out for the kids or completely cut him out of it. It sounded harsh to go NC with 2 children for him. Thank you for your encouragement I really appreciate it.
grace
on 26/02/2011 at 8:12 pm
catherine
how is it “harsh”? you’ve given him more than enough chances to step up to the plate. yet he disappears, isn’t interested in the children and doesn’t contribute financially. i can see who’s being harsh here, and it isn’t you.
as is common in our situations, your further explanation just makes him sound even worse. it doesn’t justify what he does AT ALL.
by all means go after the child support. through a lawyer. though i’m concerned that you don’t see him for what he is. if you can’t put the boundaries in place for you and your children it might not be worth the money.
Lisa
on 15/03/2011 at 6:41 pm
I have a question. I broke up with my AC about two months ago. My work planned a party at a restaurant that he works at. Now, if I see him, do I acknowledge him or ignore…my male friends said to acknowledge and move on and have a good time! My girl friends tell me to not say a thing…Personally, I would rather say whats up and move on…I think he might die of a heart attack if I do that but hes an AC he might think I want him! HELP ME…. I have to go to the party, its business
I get asked this question a lot – I call this the ‘And…move…’ technique. If he says hi, you say ‘hi’ and move on. You’re passing him ‘Hi’ and move. Basically no stopping. He stops you and grabs your arm and says ‘Hey, how are you doing?’, you say great, look at his hand on your arm…and move. Don’t ask him how he is or engage in anything. No dawdling. And make sure you enjoy yourself and no staring. Oh and if he tries to approach you, and…move to another group of people.
Lisa
on 17/03/2011 at 2:02 pm
Love it! Thank you!
Sandra81
on 17/03/2011 at 6:25 pm
Dear Lisa,
I just practised what Natalie calls the “And…move” technique last night, when I met my ex at a party. I didn’t even TRY to speak to him or to be around him. It felt empowering! Sometimes it hurts to push him away, because, on one hand, I still care about him. But I know that this distance I’m imposing right now will be beneficial to me in the long-run. Much more beneficial than choosing to be the nice girl who accepts weird behaviour, and still kisses his backside! He has to know that I respect myself, and if he doesn’t do the same, I will step back from him! 😉
Lisa
on 15/04/2011 at 8:35 pm
Sandra:
It was funny…he touched my shoulder when he walked by me and said “Hey”…i was like ew…but I said hi. AND that was that…I had a great time with my friends and although they told me he kept staring at me, I ignored him the whole time…I said hi, I acknowledged him , that is that. AND I found out that I am truly over him. My heart didnt go to my stomach when I saw him…I felt nothing..and it was great! I have moved on and so have closed he door on him!! YAY go me.
Beth D
on 15/04/2011 at 4:13 pm
This board is helping me so much. My AC who killed our relationship with his emotionally unavailable bs keeps contacting me even though it is over two years since we broke up. It is like he hates to see me move on. I couldn’t figure this out until I started reading these posts. It is not like he is willing to come to the table or anything so why is he keeping it up with me under the guise of being friends. At one time he was my best friend although I realize I always held things together. I would always feel bad and take his phone calls. Didn’t feel like going into my 100th explanation of why we can’t be friends. I see from this there is no need for explanations. Not with an AC I need to be strong and do this!!!!
Allison
on 15/04/2011 at 7:24 pm
Yeah, don’t continue to allow yourself to be put through this!
By staying in contact you’re further destroying your self-esteem and not allowing yourself to heal properly.
Time to look out for yourself, and go NC. Block e-mails and phones from contact.
You have to look out for yourself, as no one else will.
Beth D
on 20/04/2011 at 12:57 am
I made the decision to do it but wow it is hard when they keep up the phone calls and start texting Are you ok? Should I write an explanation. I am just so tired of good bye letters and explaining. Shouldn’t he know? Damn
Minky
on 20/04/2011 at 10:04 am
He should know, definitely. He’s just trying to get you to engage. Cut him off – and if you feel bad about the way you’re treating him when you ignore him, just remember just how badly he treated you! I am sure there are plenty of examples, or you wouldn’t be calling him an AC. He’s probably amazed that you haven’t done it already!
He does not deserve communication from you. This is not you being harsh with him, these are the consequences of his own actions. This is the situation he made for himself by acting like a twat (and he knows it – believe me). Don’t you feel guilty or obligated to this plonker for another second! Go and live your life. He had his chance with you.
Titch
on 28/04/2011 at 11:20 pm
This is a little saying that helps me through these situations “Mans rejection is Gods protection” Stay strong!!
Sam
on 05/05/2011 at 6:32 pm
This is the first time I’ve posted anywhere online, but I feel I really need the help. My story is long, but the nuts and bolts are this – I have what I’m sure is a EUM friend who I’ve known about twelve years. We are both married (to other people) and our families have done things together all that time.
He and I became entirely too close – I know that know. It really was at his direction – he started emailing, IMs, texting, calling, regularly, daily. Both our spouses knew this – in fact, they were often around when this was happening. There were some comments that it was excessive and I do think it started to have an effect. When I saw it becoming pretty excessive, I tried to knock it down a peg. Then he would always question my disappearance and so I always knew I would continue hearing from him.
I then became Florence Nightingale deluxe – couldn’t do enough for him, his family, his friends, it was pretty ridiculous. He did often help our family out when needed so I thought it was pretty reciprocal, but pretty soon, it started to become very one-sided. When I noticed that, I think it was too late but I started to pull back on my offers to help.
In the meantime, somewhere along the line I became less and less involved in their lives (which is a good thing), but yet I would continue to get daily texts and more often than not, they were when he needed help with something. I started feeling pretty resentful and thus started speaking up about his only communicating with me/us when he needed something. The more I “complained”, the more distant he became. I began to see this friendship as terribly off-kilter but wasn’t sure how to extricate myself.
I became the “Cried Wolf” person … I tried to pull myself out of the relationship because I could see what was happening, but every time I did that he would suck me back in, just enough to make me believe our friendship meant something, but not enough to actually be present in it. Soon the invites from he and his wife to my husband and myself started to drop off, the calls and emails as well, and basically what was left was a greeting of some sort every day or two and not really knowing anything about their lives. A very strange…
leisha
on 05/05/2011 at 10:09 pm
Sam, your post isn’t clear b/c of word limit cut-off…I’m unsure what you are searching for in a response because I didn’t see a question…I hope you see that and that you aren’t being ignored.
Sam
on 08/05/2011 at 2:31 pm
I apologize. I guess I thought the box would cut me off if I was too long-winded 😉
I am pretty sure I went on to say that this long-term friendship with my EUM friend seems to be ending and I’m in a way grieving it and finding it hard to move on. He (and his wife) seem to have little interest in our lives anymore and it is leaving a huge gap for me, particularly. I was very attached to them, and to their child. I miss them, plain and simple.
I get little tidbits of contact from him but they seem to just make me feel worse than if I didn’t hear from him at all. I am seeing a therapist who tells me basically to let it go and cherish the memories, but I seem to be stuck.
I think my question was simply – do I just disappear from this situation at this point? Or what can I do to keep it from dying entirely? It is a little bit different because it isn’t a romantic relationship, but it still is very sad because it feels like I’ve lost a great friend.
Thanks for any insight you can give me.
grace
on 08/05/2011 at 5:24 pm
Sam
It’s inappropriate for a MM to contact a woman every day who’s not his wife. Even if it was his mother or sister it’s not right. His wife is number one. Your spouses may have know about it but I’m guessing she has put her foot down (quite right too) or he’s realised he was sailing close to the wind and has backed off.
You can’t be friends with them anymore.
You can’t keep it from dying – it’s not just your decision. Their silence says it all and it would not be right to pursue this further. It will make you look … bad. How would you feel if your husband was contacting a woman every day? How would you feel if he backed off and she came running after him. It just won’t work.
Sam
on 08/05/2011 at 8:11 pm
Yes, I know you are right. We have all been friends for many years and I think I will miss his child the most. It may be awkward too because we have mutual friends, but since we rarely see any of them, it may be a nonissue. I never really knew why he would contact me all the time, to be honest. But the bottom line is that these were important people to me, and now I need to let them go and am trying to work my way through it.
While I believe she has probably put the brakes on it, it was actually me a few weeks ago who said that I thought the constant contact had to stop. That came about because he blasted me about some issues in my family that I think were none of his business, which when I later described to my husband, my husband thought there is some real tension within their relationship and that my friend was taking it out on me instead. Totally inappropriate and I told him (the friend) this.
I still feel a great sense of loss. Hopefully my experience will be a lesson to anyone reading this, because this site has been a big help to me at least understanding what I am dealing with.
runnergirl
on 08/05/2011 at 8:54 pm
Hi Sam,
I think Grace is correct. In my experience when a MM is contacting another woman everyday, it is a red flag. FULL STOP. I wish I could have seen the red flag three years ago when the ex MM was texting, emailing, and calling me everyday because we were such “good friends” and, at first, it wasn’t romantic. In time, we became “entirely to close” and after a two year affair, I’m left picking up the pieces of my life. I feel like I’ve lost a great friend too. Maybe this would be a good time to connect with your husband? Can he be your great friend? Hugs.
Sam
on 08/05/2011 at 8:32 pm
I do have to add that I feel somewhat used in the process which is what brought me to this site. I am seeking therapy mostly in an effort to avoid becoming another married man’s sounding board like in this situation. I’m just sad that his issues (and my lack of boundaries) have doomed what was a fun friendship for all of us. Their child will want to see me, I know that. It is going to be tricky stuff to get through and I know they aren’t done with me, not quite yet. His wife hasn’t cut contact with me completely, I just don’t hear from her quite like I used to.
runnergirl
on 09/05/2011 at 12:49 am
I’ve been there too Sam. Being a MM’s sounding board isn’t a relationship or a great friend. As Natalie put’s it, it is an emotional airbag. That doesn’t sound as wonderful as a great friend or soulmate I know. What about your husband and family? Everything you write is about him, his wife, and child. What about you, and your husband?
Sam
on 08/05/2011 at 11:33 pm
Runnergirl, my husband and I have always been close and this has actually brought us closer. I have had this happen to me two other times in our long marriage – the other two guys were just as messed up as this one was, almost exact same personalities. My husband thinks I take on these “rescue” cases and will likely do it again. I told him that is why for the first time in my life, I am seeing a therapist.
My friend needed me, I know that now, maybe even was in love with me at some point, and he crossed the line, at least emotionally, but I let him. I liked being needed but never would have considered an affair. The thing that bothers me the most though is that men and women cannot be close friends, it seems, especially if there are SO’s involved with each. If this friend of mine was a woman, I doubt I’d be in this predicament.
He does very much have all the “symptoms” of a EUM though so I am sure that the issues I’ve had with him are probably his wife’s problem as well, which could be what drew him to me. And then when I started needing more from the friendship, he has finally backed out. I really hate to see the friendship go but I saw the writing on the wall. I am glad I found this site that makes it make more sense to me now.
grace
on 09/05/2011 at 8:28 am
Sam
Men and women can be friends but the boundaries have to be quite tight. And if he’s EU, he’s incapable of keeping them. I was very friendly with some men at my previous job but now we are no longer friends. For us to get together, it can’t just be office drinks or a working lunch, it would be like making a date. It isn’t going to work.
I’ve somewhat downgraded my expectations regarding friendships. They can’t always be heart-to-heart and last years and years. Sometimes people come together for a while, enjoy each other’s company and then drift apart, especially with today’s geographical mobility. I’ve experienced it with female friends too. (But it’s not carte blanche for an EUM to mess you about!)
I think it’s part of good self-esteem to be able to take the rough and the smooth of it, not see it as a reflection on you, or something you did wrong, or something not right with the world. It’s justpart of life’s rich pageant!
Sam
on 09/05/2011 at 12:38 pm
Grace, part of my issues now with the therapist are centering around my self esteem and abandonment issues that made me cling to this relationship far too long. It wasn’t necessarily this particular friend, it is just a repeat of how I’ve felt over the years when various friendships have dwindled. And yes, you are right. I do know that they aren’t often lifetime … just for a time, and to be enjoyed for a time, and then let go. I think that’s where I stumble.
And Runnergirl, my husband is a great guy and has been completely supportive of this process with me. Yes, I do believe at one point he was concerned about my friendship with this man, which was the very first point I decided the frequent contact was too frequent. It was my EUM friend though who held on, sought me out, and dumped his life’s problems on me, and I thought I was being helpful. Each day that goes by, I realize I was just used, and there will likely be another after me to take my place.
I had another situation like this that ended several years ago, quite badly (a bridge definitely burned). It was a man I worked with. I quit that job because of it. Turned out a few months later, his wife left him. It seems I needed to be out of the fray before that happened, and it could happen again here, and I don’t need to be involved.
Sam2
on 09/05/2011 at 1:39 pm
Just want to say – appears there is another “Sam” on these blogs … so for clarity, I will call myself Sam2 🙂
Sam2
on 09/05/2011 at 11:21 pm
I do have a final question/comment. This is the first time in many years that he hasn’t contacted me in days, so I know there’s a good chance he will. This is a tricky situation – is total NC appropriate here? Because of the social circle (albeit very limited contact with anyone the last several months) we share, there are good chances of being in the same place at the same time and obviously I can’t avoid that, but what about texts and/or emails. I doubt he will call. That ended a long time ago. His preferred method of contact had become nearly all electronic.
The last time I saw him (two weeks ago) was when he verbally beat the crap out of me which led to my “final straw” moment.
My wonderful husband suggested I take a short trip to visit our daughter and I’m going to do just that. A change of scene is exactly what I need! 🙂
Thanks.
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Phew – well that article hit a few cords – a good reminder for me. I’m the woman who ended up with a total assclown after my lovely husband died (long story) – anyway – the AC got in touch just a month ago – by email (wow, big boy, brave!) – all sweetness and enquiring on where i live now (serious!!) and how he had been “thinking of you last night…” – yeah right! anyway, I had been NC for months and ignored it – rightly.
But something came over me the next day – a rage! Now I am strong again and acknowledging his and my behaviour – I was very much aware that these emails were not going to stop… so I sent one, very concise and clear email – “DO NOT CONTACT ME” take and good luck.
Frankly I don’t care after all this time what he made of that – but I sure as hell do not want any more emails – even every 3 months.. it is an invasion of my space and my life and I am happier and healthier (mentally and physically) than ever. He is a head_f**ker and clearly has a mountain of issues… that thankfully are not mine to deal with through his games, lack of integrity, compassion, empathy – a true narcissist!
I will be honest – this has been soooooo HARD – so gruelling but also such an essential challenge in self love and respect and way over due.
BE STRONG – MOVE ON – self-love is the key x
breath
i like this post. i’ve been reading and posting here a while and what i’ve noticed is the clarity – like yours – when we come out the other side. at the start of my journey i was confused, i didn’t understand natalie’s posts, i wanted to believe my MM was different, i wanted us to be friends (esp as we didn’t actually do eet), NC didn’t apply to ME, what harm is the odd text?. i was jumping through mental hoops trying to justify the unjustifiable. i was obsessed.
and now nearly six months down the line i really don’t give a **** about him. no confusion, no ifs and buts, it’s marvellous!
Thank you for this wonderful clarification, NML!
I have been struggling with the NC/disappearing cross-over for a while. I think the problem with my situation is we’re BOTH emotionally unavailable so neither of us wants to stick to NC. Both of us are flip-flapping, disappearing, and then re-establishing contact after various periods apart. It’s not healthy, especially since he is married (eek, I know!) but I’m trying to accept the reality that I have to be the one to stick to NC.
But dammit, it’s tough! I’m not a negative person: I like to think of the positives in life and in people, so it’s very easy for me to forgive and forget and hope for a brighter future. This makes NC exceptionally difficult because of all the strong positive feelings and memories I associate with this man.
Thank you to Natalie and all the strong women here for providing me with inspiration and motivation.
Spiral!
What you wrote made me really nervous.
“It’s easy for me to forgive and forget and hope for a brighter future” because I am “a positive person.” Egads.
Standing up for yourself and seeing the reality of your situation and this man does not make you a negative person–it makes you a wise, healthy woman. Your AC is no doubt a charmer and, unlike his wife, I’m sure that he liked to show you the very best of himself all wrapped up in a fantasy package of how great he is and how good together you can be. How nice for him to be around someone who thinks that his excrement smells like flowers. Hard for him to give that up. And, buying into the fantasy of who you think he is, it is hard for you to give it up.
But do reread some of the material on this site. If the fruit fell so easily off the tree it was rotten to the core. Think about what you really have–a man who runs hot cold, who cheats on the woman he made promises to, and someone who uses you as an ego booster when he needs it. Ask yourself why you really haven’t been completely successful at NC. It’s not because you are positive/hopeful it is because this AC who cheats on his wife knows what to say to you to get what he wants and he is able to make you feel special and important. The real question is why are you looking for validation from an AC?
You’re so much better and stronger than that!
monique
yeah, so often i told myself i was being “patient”, “hopeful”, “faithful” when in fact i was being walked all over. patience, hope and faith are wonderful qualities, and so is love. but please don’t go chucking it into a bottomless pit of ingratitude.
even Jesus said don’t cast your pearls before swine.
Hi Spiral!
‘This makes NC exceptionally difficult because of all the strong positive feelings and memories I associate with this man’
As someone who’s been there and to some extent; still going through it, look at it this way; if he was so wonderful he would have found a way for the two of you to be together properly. Not as a married man. I have memories of how much fun my eum was and I have the memories of how EU he was/is.om him. It keeps me focused in reality. Hope this helps you stay away from him.
I am in the exact same situation and also with a married man. I don’t know why I am having such a hard time with NC. I think it is because I also think of the good times but this man is truly a narcissist who runs hot and cold. Can put me in a compartment and pull me out with his charm when the timing is right. It is so sick. The roller coaster is so unhealthy. Thanks for making me see the light!!
I was in a 4 yr long disaster. It started while we were both ending our marriages and his only son was produced after my divorce and before his finalized….needless to say a emotional nightmare. His other children are all girls. Come to find out that he was denying me to everyone and claiming our son came out of a one time deal. After his divorced finalized he began playing the dating game and I became the fall back girl. No matter how hard I tried to get away hed always make his way back around. Using our son as an excuse always somehting to maintain contact. I finally got so fed up and angry I cut him off and told him was not going to speak to him except the day before he gets his son on his scheduled day and only when he confirms his pick up. In case of emergency only will I contact him. I was sooo devistated to know he was out there with all these women and he wouldnt acknowledge me. Im stuck with this situation but I will not allow it to control me anymore. I ran into this website by pure luck i typed in no contact just to see if what I felt I needed to do was being done by anyone else and Baggage Claim popped up. My sons father is 100 percent and more emotionally unavailable and I feel that everything here is what Im going thru. Whenever I have a weak moment I jump on here I am rebuilding and refocusing on what matters before I get into anything just for the sake of not being alone or to one up him because I dont want him to think im single because im waiting on him. He is the father of my youngest son and I do have feelings for him but I love myself more and I deserved way more than what he did to me. Im just very grateful for having found this site.
My EUM has daughters and I see others like him have daughters. Do they ever think someday their girls could fall prey to men just like them??
I went into no contact with an ex because the relationship was not one that really gave me the respect I needed or the love. I did the work on me in the time we were apart and just realised how much I totally love my own life. Now I am feeling some compassion for the guy. I have contacted him asking about meeting for a coffee as friends and he has been rather snippy with me implying I should get on with my life! The funny thing is , is that I AM getting on with my life and now I really don’t care if he doesn’t want any more contact himself. It would be cool to be friends but on the other hand I am okay with not being.
The great thing about no contact is that it gives you a chance to work on you for yourself and noone else and yes self love and the love affair you have with yourself is a good place to start in reconnecting with your own life. He said, “leave the past in the past” but the funny thing is for me time has moved along and he and that relationship is so far in the past that I find it hard to think about it without seeing all the holes in it, but he did have some good points! It sdid make me laugh though the way he seemed to think an offer of friendship was an offer to get back on the crazy train! When you can laugh about it, you know its finally over.
Another great read, thanks Nat.
This part resonated with me:
“If you’re not OK with the post breakup mind f*ckery whether it’s of yours or their making, you don’t need to wait around for them to be OK with you not giving them easy access. NC all the way. You might be friends one day (if they treated you decently in the relationship) but you’re obviously not friends now and ultimately, you have your own life to lead.”
The instituting NC is a way to take our lives back, keep the focus on US, rebuilding our lives without having to deal with mindf*&^ery. There was alot of that mindf*&^ery in the relationship with my ex, both during & after the break up, hence I had to go NC otherwise I would have continued to go nuts trying to understand the “impossible to understand”. I do for all intents & purposes feel that he was an EU future faker who wouldn’t commit to me, or commit to stay away from me – I also found out there was another woman involved… Now that I have had a year of NC I now struggle with remembering the “friends” aspects of the relationship… the laughing & joking around, we seemed to “bond” in that way moreso than I have ever connected with anyone before. I see him for what he is (AC), yet somehow this doesn’t stop me from thinking about talking to him. I don’t want to get off topic & I have read NML’s articles about staying friends with an ex, the do’s & don’ts on the matter… still, I struggle to keep from contacting him. I am wondering if this is normal or I have some weird affliction that keeps me from emotionally just severing this last tie. When/if my BR friends read this they are going to kick my butt as they have told me over & over to not talk to this guy. Do others feel this way? Am I crazy? If someone didn’t treat you right in a romantic fashion, does this necessarily mean that they won’t in a platonic way? Are the answers that black & white? Perhaps this is just a symptom of looking back & seeing & magnifying the good times in our minds – this is why a person has the compulsion to stay friends with an ex. Plus as human beings we crave to connect with others – and habits whether good or bad are HARD to break. All I know is that I know what I should do… following through is the hard part.
Best
TJ
TJ,
How they treat you just after the honeymmon period is how they will treat you after a relationship (or so called relationship. In fact, in some instances it will be worse treatment.
Both my ex H and ex MM treated me badly post NC and breakup.
That doesn’t stop me knowing that – especially with the ex MM we had on some level a good friendship to start off with. It’s how he hooked me in.
The severing of the last tie will come, it will come when you least expect it. One day you won’t think about him as hard or often. It’s normal to want to talk to someone you once felt close to but it doesn’t mean it’s good for you. Keep that in mind and what will happen to your emotions afterwards if you DO speak to him. Take it from me it’s not a pleasant experience.
Generally no, they won’t treat you right platonically if they didn’t treat you right romantically.
In my case, I think he got used to seeing and interacting with me in a certain way. I’d try to institute “platonic boundaries,” but they wouldn’t stick, as he’d just do enough of what it took to weasel back into my affections and then act like an a-hole again. Don’t count on him being friends once you say you’re just “friends.”
Leigh & Learning,
Thank you for your comments. On an intellectual level I know what you say is the truth of the matter, emotionally still hard to deal with – but like you said, one day when I least expect it, it won’t matter to me at all. It’s true, I have to remember that the ex hasn’t changed and the treatment I would receive would not be good. Going from friends to lovers then back to friends again is almost impossible even in the best scenario. Reinstituting contact with an ex AC would in effect be like jumping from the frying pan right back into the fire. Problem is, I have always liked the heat, been drawn to it…. Time to get out the water hose!! Severing all ties with someone that you connect with on even the smallest level can be so difficult… when hearts and emotions get thrown into the mix then it becomes a much more challenging task. I think one must buckle down when these cravings for contact come around – stay strong in our convictions to be good to US. Ask ourselves what is really good for me?? Not just at this moment but for the long run. They say past behaviour is the best predictor of future behaviour, so we have to realize nothing would be any different the 2nd, 3rd or 4th time around with an EU AC ex in any capacity.
TJ
TJ,
“If someone didn’t treat you right in a romantic fashion, does this necessarily mean that they won’t in a platonic way? Are the answers that black & white?”
I know it was that way in my situation. The AC broke up with me, suggested we be friends, and I unwisely agreed to it. He was just as bad a friend (actually worse) as he was a boyfriend.
Lack of respect is lack of respect, no matter what the context. It reflects that person’s character. It’s like saying a romantic relationship excuses bad behavior.
“If someone didn’t treat you right in a romantic fashion, does this necessarily mean that they won’t in a platonic way?”
Yes.
Yes, it is that black and white.
90% of our confusion, that I have felt too, is because we don’t want to believe the truth. When you see the truth, it sets you free. You’ll always be confused when you try to believe the unbelievable.
Grace & ICanDoBetter,
Thanks for your comments. Ok, let’s take it one step further… What if a substantial amount of time has gone by and you have accepted that the romantic relationship is over & there will be no rekindling of it… Is it possible then to have a friendship/acquaintance? What if both parties realize that they never should have been anything more than casual friends in the first place? I know that protecting ourselves from hurt and getting on with our lives is the #1 priority – I am just wondering if a person has a strong frame of mind about who they are, if it is possible to see (& accept) the AC personality traits in an ex, but still see them as human & a person instead of a monster that you have to rid yourself of? Maybe I am getting too deep here, but wouldn’t the ultimate in serenity and personal strength be to be able to move past the desire for a romantic relationship and beyond the past hurts & be able to talk to the ex without putting our own expectations -wants/needs/desires on them? If we truly have grown and have self love it could be argued that we wouldn’t want to be in any sort of contact with the exs… but it could be argued the other way too. I guess it is just what a person thinks they could handle, and of course you can only control what you do – just as Learning said, you can institute platonic boundaries but that doesn’t mean the ex will honor them. Sounds like I have come around to giving myself the answer – AC’s don’t honor anything or anyone, so probably best not to try having any sort of a friendship with the ex. Anyway, just me thinking out loud.
TJ
TJ, I’m not one to bullshit so I’ll be straight with you – if you have to intellectualise and psychoanalyse something as simple as being friends, you are looking for reasons to maintain a connection with him. Either you want to value your judgement and your decision to no longer be with him or you want to back away from that decision and have him in your life on some terms rather than *no* terms.
You can only speak for yourself and especially as you refer to him as an AC it’s best to cut the ‘we’ and speak for you. That means when you remove the projection, it is you that seems to think you’ve moved so far along and are mature enough to handle his good bits. You don’t need to demonise the guy but don’t disrespect him by only seeing what it suits you to see. He comes as a package with the not so good bits too. Denial has no place in romantic relationships no more than it does anywhere else in life. You want to swap jumping in the cage with the AC for just putting your hand in. You’re still going to get hurt.
As I ask of anyone who claims they were involved with someone who mistreated them: Why, if you’re calling them an AC do you want to be friends with them or are thinking about it? When you answer that question, you see where the work needs to be done on you. I actually don’t believe you fully believe he is an AC because you refer to ‘AC personality traits’ as if you think he’s a great person dabbling with being an asshole. How far you’re prepared to making excuses for him or denying aspects of him that are not so great, or glorifiying the better aspects are indicative of how deep you will get in with this guy. It’s not “probably” best not to be his friend – it is best not to be his friend.
My old AC from 20 something years ago called me when we had been broke up about 1 year. Said”if I was gay, you’d be my friend”. I told him the truth – “Why would I want to be friends with you now, you couldn’t even be my friend when we were lovers”. The last one – broke up 7 months ago – he kept insisting that we be friends and I told him I couldn’t do that. I finally said – why is it so important to you that we be friends?” His reply – don’t you want to surround yourself with good people? Me – I already do, people who don’t lie to me or cheat on me!! PERIOD END OF STORY. Was he really your “friend” when you were together? If not, don’t you think a romantic relationship should be just as or more sacred? I do.
Hi Nat,
I appreciate you taking the time to respond, I know you are a busy lady. And as far as “no bullshiting” goes, I love your straight talk! 🙂
One good thing about my maturing is that now I am really contemplating any decisions I make in my life… before I wouldn’t have thought… I would have jumped right in and thought (hurt) later. I think this may be the reality of it – you are right in that I am not necessarily convinced that he is 100% AC. Is there any such thing as being semi-assclown? I think that this is where I need to do the work, because I should not be willing to accept ANY sort of assclownery whatsoever in my life. I do see the AC things that my ex did, so that isn’t the issue & I would not like a romantic relationship with him now. He has called me expressing concern when I was ill a couple times – maybe I am thinking from that he might not be 100% a piece of crap? I think it is a combination of things that has me analyzing things – the missing the friendship connection with him etc. I will need to read & re-read your response so that I can form a plan for this point forward. I do believe that I will make the right decision in terms of respecting and honoring ME though. Even if I were to make a mistake and stick my hand in the fire, I still know that I will get back up on the horse, I will always survive. I have come a long way thanks for BR and true friends.
Best,
TJ
TJ
I don’t have anyone in my life who adds nothing positive to it. I’ll move jobs to get away from crazy bosses, I’ll ignore people I work with who don’t pull their weight and take advantage. I’ve even severely limited contact with my own mother. I don’t see that as making me weak. I felt WAY weaker when I even cared what these people think. To think I would even bend over backwards to appease them!
Anyone who keeps you awake at night (and not in a good way) needs to go! Life’s too short to keep an open door for all the users out there!
And put it another way – what’s so great about me that I can benefit these people? They stay away from me, I stay away from them. Everyone’s a winner!
@Aimee:
Surrounding ourselves with only GOOD people… that is a very good point.
@Grace:
“Life is too short to keep an open door for all the users out there”…. another great point.
And in response to this: “And put it another way – what’s so great about me that I can benefit these people? They stay away from me, I stay away from them. Everyone’s a winner!”
I have to say that I have to disagree, having ME in anyone’s life benefits THEM 100%!!! 😉
Thank you everyone for your responses. I think I am coming back down to reality and stopping the living in la la land…I am realizing my folly in thinking that there would be any benefit to keeping an association with my ex.
TJ
Thanks for this post! It came a bit late for me — I realise now that a few years ago I disappeared on an assclown when I should have had an adult, clear conversation about why I was not going to have any more contact with him.
Still, he was definitely a Mr Unavailable. I see now that I could have terminated the relationship cleanly.
Hugs to you all!
With the AC MM was able to go NC properly after a three year break!
When his wife went back home to him after admitting to being dumped in an affair he said and I said that he should be faithful. Fair enough I was expecting that and even suggested it prior to her coming back to his home (after he threw her out for the third time). But he didn’t want to let me go and offered me friendship. I knew this was booty call territory and I told him I would think about it. I never contacted him for months afterwards I just wanted to recover.
We contacted each other on several occassions, then he offered to buy he lunch when I was in his town. I accepted. He pressed the reset button. I said no to his sexual advances. He twisted that into he couldn’t have sex with me because of his morals (YUK! The Liar) I tried the friendship thing for one email only after he tried to manage down my expectations (and I didn’t even have any) I picked up the phone and said. “sorry, I care but I care about me more. I can’t do this.”
I have been NC since, that is five months officially with three months of Nats emails to remind me.
Yes, there is a clear difference between NC and disappearing. He would disappear to gain control, To manipulate. I went NC because I wanted to get the pigeon chest arsehole out of my life on a permanent basis. I have accomplished that. I do not expect him to contact me again. If he tries, he will get a stone walling!
NC is for me, and it’s been so easy to do because I have peace of mind and clarity! And to think, I let him suck the emotional life out of me just so he could get on his ego power trip. I have forgiven myself and I feel more alive and in touch with life after going NC.
Leigh…I too let someone suck the emotional life out of me but have been NC for well over a year and yes just like you “I have forgiven myself and I feel more alive and in touch with life after going NC”.
Its nice to know you’re doing well too.
Yes, there is a clear difference between NC and disappearing. He would disappear to gain control, To manipulate. I went NC because I wanted to get the pigeon chest arsehole out of my life on a permanent basis. I have accomplished that. I do not expect him to contact me again. If he tries, he will get a stone walling!
I appreciated your thoughts on the differences.
When we are clear with ourselves about why we are doing something (and especially something like NC that will help us in the long term) it helps us recognize when they do something opposite (like disappearing, and why they choose to do that) so that we continue in the course that will benefit us and keep our sanity.
I don’t think you can be friends with an AC EVER! The relationships we have with these men is too intense, they are too twisted to trust, way bother? When you break up with a normal man, then you can have a normal platonic relationship, because the breakup was done with mutual respect, no drama, no hard feelings, but even this takes time, one person is ALWAYS hurt, it is never completely mutual. Although, I can only list 2 normal relationships being the classic FB girl that I am. Thanks to this site hopefully I will be a FB girl no more!
I had to go NC on a casual realationship- almost 6months already (can’t believe it), I’m pretty much over it, though still sad about how things ended, I really really liked him, but it’s no use dwelling on it!
My head knows all of this, and I totally agree, but how do you maintain the NC when you don’t hate the guy, when you have an understanding of your actions as well as his…….and NC is a tool to salvage what little is left?
I found myself involved with an old friend, we reconnected and got intimate after a 30 year absence from one another’s lives…. (never lovers 30 years ago, just friends…..) We were both unhappily married, and I eventually got divorced. HE NEVER SAID HE’D LEAVE HIS FAMILY, AND I NEVER WANTED HIM TOO……… He began to feel guilty about being a cheater, so he set a sexual boundary…..We tried to stay close because we were VERY GOOD FRIENDS…….I couldn’t get past not being lovers, and felt very abandoned by him…. and it effected our friendship….He started pulling away, but tried to maintain what he said was a friendship…….The man has HUGE GUILT ISSUES….
We just continued to hurt one another over and over again, we tried to find a balance, but couldn’t……I couldn’t be a friend, I despised his wife, who treats him like crap, and I just couldn’t keep it to myself, so the pain got to be too much and I needed a clean break, before we lost everything…..But I miss my friend, let me restate, THE FRIEND I HAD BEFORE we started to deteriorate… I feel like I SHOULD DISAPPEAR!!!! it hurts like hell when all I want to do is talk to my friend………and feel like we BOTH MADE A HORRIBLE MISTAKE BY CROSSING THE LINE……..
Is there hope of getting my friend back at some point, and how does this self love and relationship with ones self work??????
I am glad I found this site….
Linda
Linda I feel for you I really do but you’re living in the past. I appreciate that you miss your friend but you’re missing someone who isn’t around. The friend you want is from 30 years ago – a lots gone down in that time. Countries, continents, social norms and *people* have changed in 30 years – it stands to reason that he is not the same person and neither is your friendship. You have tried to pick up where you left off, not acknowledging who he is now and the choices he’s made. You don’t own him because you have a past with him. You can’t necessarily love him better because you knew him first.
You tried to find the balance and you couldn’t. You cannot be friends because you want more than what is on offer and you don’t respect his marriage and he *is* married. It doesn’t matter whether his wife is a bitch on wheels – that’s who he’s married to and it’s who he’s chosen to stay with. Acting like you think you can love him better and telling him how much you despise his wife just isn’t conducive to a friendship. Yes you have both crossed the line and you can’t take that back. Until you accept who is and the choices he has made, you cannot get your friendship back because it wouldn’t be friendship. I’m sorry you are hurting and I’m sure you miss him but this is not good for either of you. If you care about him that much, let him go. If you have any care for yourself, recognise how damaging it is to hold on to something that doesn’t exist *now* for so long. You deserve better than this.
Re self-love https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/100-tips-thoughts-for-better-self-esteem-because-if-you-dont-like-love-you-youll-choose-people-that-reflect-this/
Thanks so much for this post, Natalie! This post and one quite a while back about it not being morally wrong to go NC when someone does not respect you in the “relationship”, (which the EU/MM I was with very briefly said we didn’t have-and I can see that now, I just didn’t want to hear it at the 3 month and again at the 5 month marks of our time together-but after 5 months, it did sink in that I needed to realize that he was letting me know the reality and I needed to opt out). We did not have 5 solid months or a relationship (I can see that and admit that now and NC has helped me to be able to), but would see each other once every three weeks (due to his busy work schedule, but when his work slowed down it did not become any more frequent with seeing each other as I had hoped and we had talked about) and a few phone calls and text messages in between-at his convienience, of course. His wife had left him about a year and a half ago to go back to her family overseas and took their 12 year old daughter with her. It was easier to think he was more available than he was. I told him once over the phone when he called that we would no longer be available to each other for phone calls or texts, as well as no more visits when he told me that his wife was coming back sometime during the holidays and that he wanted to be with her and make it work, especially since they have a daughter. I also had two opportunities before the Thanksgiving holiday to tell him in person (which I did) that I understood his decision to be with his wife and daughter and that we would no longer enjoy any more time together. Then I went NC from the Thanksgiving holiday (2010) through the first week after New Years, when after his texting and phone call attempts did not bring a response from me, he called me at work. He blocked his number from caller id and not every unknown number at work would be his, so I took the call-not realizing until hearing his voice who it was. One thing about being on the office line was that is was a brief call, but he felt he did not have the talk with me that he wanted, so I agreed to see him. (I knew it would be my Suck It and See time). He told me how his wife wouldn’t be coming back until the Spring or Summer this following year (2011) and he had wanted me to know that, that was why he was trying to reach me so much. He also told me he would start seeng me more often-once a week and be more available. I told him that since his wife would be coming back in his life at some point and he still wanted to be with her, there was no longer any reason for us to see each other. I didn’t belong. Of course, he said I did. After that visit he disappeared on me for two weeks and then sent a text message asking to see me in another week’s time. I ignored it and have been back on NC since. I had worried that I had been cowardly by going NC the first time (which lasted six weeks), even though I realized I had told him in person, but I think it was because NC felt uncomfortable and was very hard at first. In that time I had the chance to go through the withdrawls and tears and realize that not only was I able to live through it, but that the life I had before him with friends and family was (and still is) a good life, and that it really is better not being someone’s option, secret, fling, or passing time candidate. I also realized that I was no longer buying time since I made the decision to go NC and went back on it when he disappeared on me. It has been five weeks now and I have every intention of remaining this way. Thank you for all your posts, books, and FB site as these all prove very helpful, encouraging, and motiviating for us to stick to our decisions, educate ourselves, and continue to learn how to better understand ourselves so that we make better choices in the future. The comments from the Baggage Reclaim readers are also good in that we know we are not alone in going through these situations.
learning
you did the right think. NC is completely appropriate if he’s married. it’s doubly appropriate if he has children. give him a warning if you must but even if you disappear without a word it’s okay in my book.
Grace,
Thank you so much for your encouraging, supportive comment. It helps me realize that it is ok to be where I’m at with him (in NC-even though I told him in person why I would no longer see him or take his calls or texts (I told him no more calls and texts over the phone when he called me, and only one time, so it was not a repeated discussion)-not wanting to be the OW, and not wanting to be the girl who cried wolf (I do want my actions to back up what I told him)- I did not tell him not to contact me anymore, so I guess he might think I just disappeared on him and that thought does make me feel bad, like I didn’t close things properly). I also realize it is for the best to not be with him while he is married and to realize, too, that this won’t play out like a romantic movie with him choosing to be with me, that is not the reality. Finding this site has really helped me see things much more clearly and understand things better than I have before.
This article was an amazing reminder. Realized over the past couple of years that I was choosing men who were emotionally unavailable because I was emotionally available as well. Going through the last break up with my ex I read this book called “Getting past your break up” and it makes you take your relationship inventory. After answering so many questions, you really start to realize how all of the relationships end up the same way. After years of talking with a therapist and lots of self discovery, I’m learning that no one deserves to be treated this way. It’s almost like once you start loving yourself and become emotionally available, you change and start seeing right through these ass clowns. My ass clown came back right after my break up and fell right back into the trap and I’m done. I do not want to disrespect myself like that anymore and will no longer be treated this way. I’m just wondering if I should stop contacting him all together or be straight forward with him and tell him I’m done. Your thoughts?
Self Respect,
I don’t know the details of your relationship, but I would tell him you want no further contact with him then enforce it. If you go NC without any explanation ( not saying he deserves one), he might call even more to try and figure out whats going on or even think you’re playing a game. Tell him your done with him and you want no further contact, then stick to it. Don’t respond to any attempts on his part. I tried to go NC many times and my EX AC would stalk me, break in, show up at 2 AM, etc. etc., but I gave in numerous times and then he never took me serious. Hope this helps. Natalie has a NC guide on this site, look it up. Good Luck.
I dated a commitment-phobe for 3 long years. Our relationship never “grew” beyond the dinner on Wednesdays/Saturday night date night scenario and halfway in he started triangulating me by having an emotional affair with an “ex” who he viewed as “the one who got away.” Mind you, she doesn’t want him back as a boyfriend, but she loves to dangle that carrot in front of his nose for things like job referrals, loans, and companionship when none of the other guys she is dangling are available. Anyway, we had a pre-break-up in September and then 4 weeks later the same break-up conversation happened again with Mr. Unavailable saying he really, really wanted to stay friends. I told him that I thought friendship might be an optio at some point in the future, but I felt we should have 6 months of no contact first to adjust to our new status and begin moving forward as individuals. I told him he was welcome to drop me a line in six months and if I felt at that time like a friendship made sense, I’d respond. The next day, I went no contact. It’s really very easy. I blocked him from my home phone, my two e-mail accounts and blocked him completely on Facebook, as well as un-friending anyone on my page who was actually his friend first. I can’t block my cell phone, but I know his #’s so if he calls, I don’t answer. The real beauty of this plan (at least for me) was it took the “wondering when he might contact me” question out of the mix, it sent him a strong message that I accepted the breakup and was ready to move on, and it has allowed me time and space to heal and move forward with my own life. I have no intention of being his friend and I think he knows that. But my point in leaving this comment is that a lot of people say they “struggle” with no contact when in fact, no contact is easy. You just have to be strong in the knowledge that you really DON’T WANT TO BE CONTACTED.
I’ve been NC from an AC platonic friend for 4 months now. I chose to not give any explanation to him after the lies, lies, and more lies. He had extreme narcissistic tendencies and admitted to me once in a rare glimpse of the dark side he knew exactly how he treated people. Chilling.
However, after reading this, for the FIRST time in 4 months NC I am tempted to break NC to give him that final heave-ho explanation so that in my own mind I can justify based on what is said here that I just didn’t disappear. Game playing was not my intent, I JUST HAD DAMN ENOUGH OF HIM AND HIS EMOTIONAL ABUSE, and that was what it was, emotional abuse.
I thought it was okay to just go away aka “disappear into that NC good night” without explanation to practice self-care, but this entry has me questioning all I thought before. I must say that my AC ex-friend said no wrong, did no wrong, felt no wrong in his own grandiose mind while I said no right, did no right, felt no right. He was a master of projection, non-empathy, and using my words against me. In a public place he flew into me in what I firmly believe was a narcissistic rage after a very difficult time of loss for me. I honestly don’t know what he would have done if I had told him I was going away. Very unpredictable depending on how he chose to mind-f*ck me that day. He could have said “Cool” or “B*tch!”. Either way.
Did I do the wrong thing just disappearing from this clown or should I have given him a statement of my NC intentions which would have begged a reason(s) to be given? Are the NC rules relaxed/different for platonic friendships? He has not tried to contact me once since I went NC, although I suspect he has been tracking me once, so it’s not as if I’m ignoring his communication.
Thanks for any input the BR ladies might give me in this only moment of wobbly in four months NC.
I meant are the NC rules relaxed/different for platonic relationships in the sense of starting NC with an announcement or not. I did not mean to imply that the rules that govern NC all along are different for friendships. I hope this makes sense. Does a psuedo friendship with an AC who can only maintain surface attachments as he is a hollow shell with narcissistic tendencies demand the same “courtesy” of announcing where I’m going, which is far, far away from him forever more?
I hate that after reading this post I wonder if I went about NC the wrong way, which is in my opinion worrying about HIM and if HIS FEELINGS are hurt over my own after the thousand little emotional and self-esteem cuts he inflicted on me.
No you did the right thing – you refer to him as an AC, he raged at you and he’s obviously dangerous. It is pointless breaking NC now unless you have a desire to invite him to wreak havoc in your life. Leave it alone. Personally I would run from anyone like that for my own self protection.
Natalie, thank you for your words of encouragement and confirmation that I did the right thing. It means so much to me. NC onward march! 🙂
This is an interesting article Natalie as I am one year NC from an EUM that I was “in love” with but never had an actual relationship with. It was casual and I was waiting for him to want a committed relationship with me… when the pain of it never coming to fruition finally had hurt so bad, I disappeared and instituted NC. I never said a word of why I opted out, I just did. The interesting thing is for some reason I still struggle with that decision, it’s like I can’t get over the guilt of just disappearing. A lot of it I suspect is that with all the work I’ve done on myself in 12 mos I know I could actually handle a conversation like that now without letting my emotions get the best of me. Back then I couldn’t, I would always be a crying mess (which he had already witnessed when I confessed my feelings and wants in the past). So part of me did not want to have that crying conversation again, I was embarassed and mad that I did it once so what was the point in doing it again? In my heart I felt that he knew and so I was within my rights to just bail. Even if he did “know” he acted like had no clue what the problem was and so that exacerbated my guilt and worrying about how I was being perceived.
So I guess I would be interested from you all in your thoughts on reconciling with myself the 1. guilt of disappearing and 2. the fantasy of meeting again “one day” in which we have an adult conversation about ourselves and he’s gained as much clarity about his issues as I have over the period of NC.
You’re projecting – you’re assuming because you’ve grown that he has. It was a casual dalliance and also a lot of it was in your head – the NC here is actually for your own self preservation. If you hadn’t, you would have continued to throw yourself under the bus – you would be feeling v humiliated.
Leave it alone, get behind your decision and stop fantasising about him because no matter what you’ve done in that time, you are still fantasising about someone from a casual relationship that didn’t progress. To try and have a discussion now is to not only seek validation and attention plus he’s getting on with his own life. You pursuing your fantasy will have him thinking ‘Wtf?’. Leave it alone.
CC
you’re a bloke, you know a girl who is attractive. you don’t want a proper relationship but are happy to shag her and hang out with her. one day she disappears. oh well, you think, she was getting a bit clingy. in fact you’re relieved. plus there’s that babe you’ve been eyeing up at the gym. not to mention the new girl at work.
what’s you think is not what he thinks.
Hah! Hilarious Grace 🙂 I knew that’s what my xEUM was thinking, likely weeks before he dumped. Thank goodness I had no illusions of growth on his part 😉
Perfect timing again. I am in week 8 of no contact for what seems like the hundredth time. This time is different though. I feel “done ” now thanks to 6 months of therapy and I want to move on. I have cut all ties with him, blocked him and cut ties with his family in order to do so.
I shared with my family some of the insanity that was our interaction and have asked them to also cut ties with him so that he is no longer allowed to cross my boundries which he was always so proud to bust through. How ever I have found that he is still contacting them and they recipicate. I feel betrayed by them. If your own family doesn’t have your back who will? I learned through therapy that I was interacting with someone who has serious narcissistic tendencies. And because I know him so well I know he loves that he can still punish me from afar. How am I suppose to handle this? I am trying really hard to not get dramatic. I am pissed and I want him to go away.
dawn
tell your friends and family you don’t want to hear his name mentioned nor do you want to know his business, what he said, nothing. if they mention it, get up and go home. they’ll get the message. if they don’t, get new friends and consider whether your family is acting in your best interests.
if they want to engage with him, let them. just make sure it has nada to do with you.
I had a fabulous 8-hour first date with a guy. We made plans for a second date and texted the following day. Then, he disappeared forever. He’s the only “disappearing” dude I’ve encountered thus far…however, I do agree that the NC rule works wonders, especially after a break-up that YOU didn’t necessarily want. In time, wounds heal and perhaps a friendship can emerge after all the pain and resentment are placed with forgiveness and the reality that some relationships are just stepping stones to the ONE relationship we are all seeking.
Shoe,
I don’t understand? Are you saying you wish to be friends with this guy? Didn’t he disappear after you made plans for another date? Sounds like a flakey individual to me.
Disappearing is what people in relationships do when they don’t want to face the consequences – they don’t want to have the formal goodbye, they don’t want to have another talk about the relationship, they don’t want to deal with their issues.
No contact is what people in relationships do when they accept the reality of the relationship and it isn’t good. You have worked on it (at least to the extent the other person is willing to), you have tried to address what is wrong and you have run out of options. The two people in the relationship are in different places and there is no future, no hope, no point in continuing.
It’s just my opinion but disappearing is the act of a coward, while NC is an act of bravery or necessity.
Debra – could not agree more. Cowards disappear rather than face up. The key here with an EUM/AC/NARC is they don’t necessarily see it that way. So there is no sense in it AND no sense in chasing it either. Its useless to try an analyze it. Believe me I have tried only to fail to understand again and again. Until I realized one very important thing – If I could comprehend him – I would be just like him. I don’t get it but I don’t have too either. He’s not my problem anymore. NC is for me and let it stay that way.
Thanks Nat!!! This helped me soooo much!! MUAH!!!
I just came upon this site today. When I first read this thread it brought me to tears. I can’t believe how many women are in the same boat as me. I have been involved with an EUM off an on for 2 years. We started as ‘friends’, then became lovers. His wife died 3 years ago very tragically. I think I have been making excuses for him and feeling very sorry for him because of that. But the bottom line is, he’s unavailable, self-absorbed and so far has not respected my request for us to not stay in contact. It’s tricky, because when he comes back I feel so bad for him. His wife left him with 2 young children.
I need some help. How can I practice NC with this man if I can’t stop feeling so much empathy for him? I know it’s the right thing for my own mental and emotional sanity, but I can’t seem to switch off my caring and nurturing instinct?
Hi Jo,
Go through Natalie’s posts specifically on No Contact. They deal with your exact question. You can do it!
Jo,
There is a caring and nurturing, and then there is co-dependency. And they can often LOOK the same. It’s one things to have empathy for the situation he is in. That is what makes you such a good person. But how much good are you doing him to enable him to continue being disrespectful?
I need to go no contact.
I feel like I give really good advice but am currently in a situation that with an EUM that has been draining my energy. I’m about to graduate from graduate school and am job hunting and have a million things to do. And my problem with this person is just making me crazy and listless.
We are currently long distance. I want (wanted) to be together when I graduate and for us to move to the same city. He is wishy washy. He’s not ready to get married (I never said anything about marriage). He is so selfish. I know this story. I know to get out. I was actually doing pretty good for a few days, had gained some acceptance, had felt like I wasn’t even angry with him and was letting go. Then he called and now I’m back in the craziness as of tonight. Once he feels like he has me again, he again becomes an unfeeling horrible man. He acts very indifferent.
But he wants to visit and he wants me to pay for his ticket. I waiver about wanting him to visit. And I sure as hell cannot even believe he wants me to pay for his flight. I will never pay. But I feel like saying no puts an ultimate end to this situation. I can’t have one more conversation about the same sh*t. I just want to leave. But I’m scared. I, deep down, must not believe I deserve better. I feel like an idiot for being in this situation again.
Do I really even want this person? There is no way I could. I must just want to win. But how it feels like I want him! Wow, I didn’t think I would ever be here again. I can’t remember how I left before. I’m so tired and wish someone else could pick up my life for me, but I know it has to be me. I can’t express the depths of my sadness and anger.
Hey Jupiter,
I really feel for you. I know exactly how you feel! You have several options, but the only one you really want is: option z – where he has a total change of heart and becomes this perfect guy who is utterly devoted to you. That’s not going to happen and i think you know that.
This guy is totally taking you for granted and you are enabling him to do it by continuing to engage with him. I was in exactly the same boat (long distance, blowing hot and cold, swanning in and out as he pleased, not caring about me or my life and just about himself and the attention he needed). Good for you for refusing to pay for him to come see you – does he think you’re a charity for half-hearted, commitment phobes?! You have to break the cycle and keep it broken. It’s the only way. Yes it will hurt, it will be difficult, you will miss him, but like i’ve said before in other posts – it’s like coming off drugs. You have to go through the detox and withdrawl to come out the other side and start fresh, you can’t kick any habit if you’re still dabbling from time to time.
You can do this! I did and it’s the best thing i ever did. I am at the point where i don’t give a damn about him, where he is, what he’s doing – i don’t care! I’m with a great guy now who treats me properly and wants to be with me. I would never have found him if i were still messing about with my EU ex.
Best of luck to you 🙂
jupiter
you’re being kinda wishy washy too, to be fair. moving to be with someone is a major step and it’s quite logical for him to see it as the first rung towards marriage. in a way, he is seeing that more clearly that you.
do you want to get married one day? cos if you do, look for someone who is at least not allergic to the idea.
don’t downgrade what you want to fit in with whatever crappy situation you are in, that’s the slippery slope to nowhere.
and yes, do NOT pay for his ticket!!!
i screwed up and was drunk and made contact after i did NC successfully.
i even asked to go out. i did not get a friday night invitation, i got a weeknight one instead, and declined it and then basically told him … i would not bother anymore.
i was so flushed with embarrassment at myself. he did not respond when i said i was only free on fridays. so another mini reconnect and another mini break up. i told myself: it doesn’t matter. the only people that something like this matters are the ones who are really worth something. he was not.
so i do not sweat it. initially, i was mortified by him blowing me off. but it’s ok. i will just resume NC and work it out. it reminds me that experiences with him are poor ones and best avoided. NC is very helpful and pounding home the theory also helpful. NC gives us a chance to reign our texting fingers in and grab back our self esteem.
it forbids us from chasing … and that is very very important. some chase, understandable. but chase too much and you become a stalker, almost a nut job. you need your self esteem and self respect for YOURSELF. so thanks for this board because it’s saved me once again … going back into it would have been a criminal mistake and at least i saved myself from being involved with him again at a bad time in my life. i got singed and it was a good reminder and warning to stay away from him. so it’s OK. i needed that reminder.
i just want to add …. anyone who is sad their AC is not in contact … i.e. doesn’t want them enough to call and bother them, be glad that they don’t!
thing is: these are BAD experiences that leave you feeling BAD, bad about yourself, life and him.
feeling bad sucks and it not necessary. not having contact with someone who doesn’t give a damn about you IS A GOOD THING. i am feeling BAD again, totally unnecessary, because i was in touch with him. i can’t wait to be NC for a long time again. it saved me.
lynne,
A couple of things you said hit home for me. When your ex didn’t offer you a friday night invitation, it reminded me of my ex. Even after we were broken up he wanted to spend time with me, even on Friday or Saturday nights. I thought it meant something to get such a prime spot. All it meant was that he had nothing (or no ONE) better to do!!!
And yes, sometimes, I still think about what a rush it was to hear from him. But I have to remind myself that I was the one who said “I can’t do this anymore”, and the fact that he does NOT call is really a sign of respect.
It is a blessing that your fall from the wagon didn’t amount to anything. It’s good that you were able to “suck it and see” without it actually going any further. At least you had the sense to turn down his “weeknight” offering, even in your drunken state, and now in your sober frame of mind you see it for what it really is. That is way more insightful that he will ever be!
My AC pulled the disappearing act over two months ago and I’m still dying for closure. When I texted him asking why he set me up for a coffee date, then left the country his only answer (20 minutes later) was “I don’t know”. Upon returning back to the country, he kept texting me as if nothing had gone wrong. I’m still having a hard time letting go and having no contact. Reading these posts is really helping alot. Thanks!!
@Sandy: Not getting closure is difficult and it’s a trap to look for closure from an assclown. You wont get it cos assclowns do not understand common decency and are ego maniacs – they don’t see your needs. What he did was typical of a narcissist – he thought he could pick up where he left off as if nothing happened. This type of behaviour is outrageous in the extreme, Sandy. Decent, nice people do not behave like this.
You must get closure yourself and you do that by having no contact with him. Have you thought about changing your number so you won’t be tempted to contact him and also it will block him off from you so he can’t get through to you.?
sandy
do you really expect someone who doesn’t know why they do things to give you closure?
I am confused
I say I want no contact (not to him just to myself) and then I don’t stick with it. He says he wants to be friends and he will call etc. but I don’t get a thing he has only once in the past six months done one thing he said he would do. Yet I don’t leave the situation alone I frustrate myself over this issue and a lot of what was said in the above post could apply to me more than him.
Think I need to re visit this post for my benefit. It feels like he is the normal one and I am the one with the issues.
@Tulipa … why bother with someone like this? Even as a “friend” he’s unreliable and does things on HIS TERMS ONLY. It takes a a bit of deterimination to stick with nc but it is well worth it in the end. He’s only wrecking your head anyway, no good is coming out of responding to him.
Tulipa,
It often does feel that way with AC’s. I agree with you, we do need to look at our own issues, but don’t take on his as well. Someone consistently not following through on their word is not normal. It’s easy for us to think like that, because we feel remorse for our actions and how they affect others. Since he does not seem bothered by it, you give him too much power by assuming his actions must be OK, since he feels no remorse. Since when do people with no compassion get to be the moral compass for right and wrong?
Hi Sandy,
i’m so sorry this happened to you and of course you’re baffled.
He has given you the answer, however, ‘he doesn’t know’. Guys like him do these things because they only think about themselves, they don’t feel guilt, they are like selfish children. He didn’t feel like meeting you, for whatever reason, and so he didn’t. He didn’t care about your feelings, that you would be hurt, or confused. He didn’t consider how his actions would affect you. He knows he can disappear and come swanning back and you will be there. Be grateful that this mentality is totally baffling to you – that you’re the kind of person who could never do this.
You are too good for him and he knows it. Cut him off, stop trying to figure him out and focus on indulging yourself, focus on the people who treat you with respect. They deserve your time and effort – he doesn’t!
Hugs! 🙂
Hi Sandy,
I would agree with Minky when she said
– stop trying to figure him out and focus on indulging yourself, focus on the people who treat you with respect.
It’s never worth the effort to try to figure out someone else’s actions especially if they are really very different from your own, but it is worth spending time and effort to think about your own life and how you invited an ass clown in in the first place.
I’m not sure where precisely I fit in this thread because I fit in in almost every post. I think I’ve done both NC and disappearing. I did NC and when it was working, I slipped and fell off NC for two telephone conversations. Then when he blew hard and I knew I could slip into other woman status at the drop of a dime, I disappeared. I don’t know if I’m in NC or disappearing. The best description I can find here is post break up mind f**kering. The minute I broke NC, he came right in for post break up mind f**kering. My gut sensed that I was headed back to other woman status because he “so missed me” but would not do anything to change things because he was “too messed up”. Thus, I disappeared. Or is it NC? Perhaps, someone could lay out the post-break up mind f**kering. Is all I know, is it didn’t feel right and I could never, ever, be that woman, the other woman again. Thus, no response or NC or disappearing? He doesn’t get me, literally and metaphorically. Don’t know if I’ve disappeared. Don’t know if I’m in NC. Don’t know if it matters??? Your thoughts?
Trust me Runnergirl, you’re NC. I’ve been where you are. If someone was hounding me to maintain the status quo of keeping me as a spare *and* is married, I’d damn well cut contact and disappear too.
Okey doke…thanks for the clarification. You have such a great way of putting things. “A spare”…pretty graphic. YUCK! And by the way you are right, each day of NC does get better. I’m establishing my own routine and getting my life back. It is interesting getting a chance to focus on me and what I want to do. Additionally, I’ve noticed that my life is drama-free now that he is out. It is nice.
Folks out there in the first few weeks of NC, hang in there. It really does get better. Everyone who helped me through those first weeks, thank you. “A spare”, that’s going to keep me laughing all day.
I remember trying to go NC with a person I had dated, started off blowing hot, then cold which is when I basically finally trusted my gut to break it off. Of course he wanted to ‘remain’ friends… as Nat says to stay in your life because they are uncomfortable with endings and want it on their terms. I remember how although my instincts knew it wasn’t right, didn’t trust in them enough, so was easily guilted feeling like I was being a bad person for not wanting to remain friends… Then I finally got with it and the reason why I felt so strongly against it, is because he wasn’t capable of being a ‘friend’ and he was just trying to demote me to that level and still try to dabble in and out… now, I’m looking back and shake my head it’ s funny when they are barely there for you when you are ‘dating’ if you want to call it that but as soon as you try and leave you all of a peak their interest… like you are a little cat toy or something.
these ACs truly “don’t know” what they do wrong. They feel because they are wishy washy and their “promises” are not set in stone, then they have done nothing “wrong”. So, really, no matter what you do you can’t get through to them and ever win, Walk away and realize that you are the sane one and the better person, there is someone out there who comprehends English (or whatever it is you speak). And, can understand a whole conversation, not just his “skewed” interpretation. Practice NC, I know it is hard, focus on YOU and move on.
Nevertoolate!: “there is someone out there who comprehends English (or whatever it is you speak). And, can understand a whole conversation, not just his “skewed” interpretation.”
Good point there. This selective hearing thing, it’s a trait I’ve observed. I’ve noticed when I see a pattern in a boyfriend, or even just a female I know, where they often *seem* to ‘misunderstand’ or ‘misinterpret’ your meaning…. People like that are best to be avoided. With some, it gets to the point where you honestly wonder if they are doing it quite intentionally and are simply playing a game they consider fun. They twist your meaning, (often over minor and inconsequential things), watch you get frustrated, and derive pleasure from it. I think maybe it’s a sign of mental illness. A form of gaslighting. And if you remember the movie the husband was trying to make his wife crazy, but it was actually he who was mentally ill. I will give one example of this. I had a female friend who used to ‘misinterpret’ my meaning, and it became more frequently. For example, she and I were going to watch a late afternoon event outdoors. I knew that one side of the arena faced the late afternoon sun making it almost impossible to watch the show. So I mentioned ‘Let’s be sure to sit on the side where we won’t have the sun in our eyes’. It was a very simple statement. Not complex or difficult to understand. Yet she *seemed* very perplexed and upset by it. After that, she proceeded to badger me every time I was planning to do anything outside, asking if I’d be ok since I was sooo sensitive to the sun, she “knew” I didn’t like being outside in the sun, I should see an eye doctor about my over-sensitive eyes, etc, etc. (I actually did see an eye doctor, and he said no, it’s normal to have light sensitive eyes, nothing abnormal going on with my eyes at all!) Well she was pretending not to understand me. I enjoy the sun, and the outdoors. Just don’t enjoy watching an event while the sun is beaming near sunset directly into my eyes. That’s normal. MOST people don’t prefer that. She twisted it around and wouldn’t stop trying to make it into something completely different, and for no apparent reason. She did a lot of other things like that, too, and we never fought but I stopped returning her calls. Not sure if she knows why or not.
Wow, I have a couple of female friends who do the exact same thing you are describing! I always assumed it was a power struggle, or a way to mock my wants and needs, in order to put me down. But then I would look at them and wonder why they felt so insecure as to do that.
It’s no wonder I can feel so isolated at times, especially when I am feeling down. Because these are not the type of people to offer support. If they will mock you for the simplest things, then I don’t feel safe in sharing anything deeper.
I am not surprised that I find myself surrounded by such people. After all, if I choose AC’s and EUM’s in romantic relationships, then I probably choose those types of people for friendships, too.
Icandobetter: “I always assumed it was a power struggle, or a way to mock my wants and needs, in order to put me down.”
Yes I think you’re right it’s like they’re mocking us. And over something so commonplace and inconsequential. I had an ex boyfriend who used to do that kind of thing to me too. He’d always declare “Ohhh, I know how you feel about XYZ topic…” And go on with an incorrect synopsis of how I actually felt about that topic. All based on some minor comment or reaction of mine at some point in the past. And even when I’d repeatedly correct him on his assumption, it was like he never heard that part. He’d just continue on over and over again repeating the same lie, as he preferred to be the one telling my life story, rather than allowing me to do that myself. Very bizarre behavior. It’s like they’re trying to tell you that THEY know you better than YOU know you!!
Uhm, what they are really trying to so is get you to second-guess yourself, b/c that is what they do all the time…with themselves.
After all, professional vampires want to make everyone else one of them, too.
Used, Vampires, that’s a good analogy! I guess it is kind of like the ‘misery loves company’ dynamic. I’d rather just have a normal interaction and not be miserable but I guess these people like creating drama from nothing.
Used,
You are absolutely right about them second guessing themselves. They are looking for external validation, and when we have a different opinion, they start to question their own beliefs. So, then they mock us and exaggerate what we said, or pick on us for little things like Melanie mentioned, so they feel one-up again.
And, what you said about them wanting to make us one of them is true. I know that I have found myself getting irritated and nit-picking back at them, so I become like them, too. It can become very toxic, if you let it.
This site has really resonated with me and made me think about my actions and my history, but I really don’t know what to do about my current situation.
It’s complicated, and genuinely not the guy’s fault. It’s sort of a work thing, and he’s working away going through a very stressful and highly pressured training period and has always been completely up front and honest that he can’t focus on a relationship while he’s going through that.
He doesn’t sleep with me, and goes out of his way to avoid situations where that might happen (ie, being in my house when he’s had a drink) because he doesn’t think sex would be fair on me.
We’re very close friends, while he’s away I have lots of contact with him and I am trying to be as supportive as I can while he goes through something that’s very difficult. He rings me pretty much every week, texts when he can and makes time to see me when he comes home for a visit. He’s never tried to stop me moving on, and has previously said if we’re both still single when he’s available, he’d like to pursue a relationship with me. That’s 4 months away.
The problem for me is, having contact with him is making it hard for me to move on. I don’t know if he still feels the way he said he did (I can’t talk to him about it, he finds emotional conversations pretty difficult at the best of times and he’s already under an enormous amount of stress and pressure right now) so I think the best thing would be for me to move on from him.
The problem is, while I’m still in contact with him, it’s incredibly difficult to move on. Plus if I met another man, how would I explain having this very close friend who I have strong feelings for and have slept with in the past? I either have to start a new relationship with a lie, or things are going to get very complicated!
No Contact doesn’t seem fair. He hasn’t done anything wrong, he’s always been honest with me, and he has told me that my support has meant a great deal to him and really helped. I can’t just suddenly withdraw that.
I also can’t sit around on the off chance that he’ll still feel the same in 4 months time (which will be about 10 months since we last had an honest conversation about how we felt, things are very unlikely to be the same!) so I really don’t know what to do for the best!
I think my ideal situation would be for my feelings to change, and for it just to be an uncomplicated friendship. I don’t know how to orchestrate that though 🙁
Confused, hard as this may be to hear, a lot of the confusion is really of your own making. He is being clear – he is an unavailable man, he doesn’t want a relationship and he has ‘obstacles’. It is not a case of that he can’t focus on a relationship right now, it’s that he doesn’t *want* to. You’re making it sound like it’s beyond his control – he is not the only person on earth to have a stressful job or training period.
Your feelings have not abated and you are waiting around for him. It is not a case of that he tells you that he ‘can’t’ or that he doesn’t feel the same way and then your feelings melt away – you have to have some distance, accept that he is unavailable, focus on you and get on with your own life. He wants to have the best of both worlds, and actually so do you.
You’re not going to meet someone else and even if you did, it would be an incredible disrespect. Why on earth would you be meeting someone else without processing your feelings about this guy and grieving the loss of what you thought could happen, but didn’t? Why on earth would you get involved with someone else and tell them that you have feelings for someone else?
You have to do the work and get over this guy. You can’t have your cake and eat it. You want to avoid accepting what has happened and you want to have license to start up something somewhere else without dealing with your feelings which makes you unavailable.
No Contact isn’t always about doing something wrong – many people who get in touch with me, go No Contact because they realise that their feelings outpace what is on offer and they can’t deal with them and they can’t just be friends. If you could, you’d be just friends already and you would have accepted it. Fact is, yes you started out as friends but you are no longer ‘friends’ because you want more – friends don’t want to screw each other and have a romantic relationship.
You are not a careers advisor or an armchair psychologist – if you and he are really the friends that you believe you are, he will be totally understanding of you having some time out. If he is your thoughtless Mr Unavailable trying to get an ego stroke and a shoulder to lean on, you will find that he will be reluctant to let you go.
Why is that? Because *he* is OK with the situation so he just assumes that *you* are. This will be the real litmus test of the friendship – is he thinking about you? Is he empathising? If he is, there will no issue with you backing off even if it makes him uncomfortable because he will recognise it is necessary to keep your friendship in the medium to long-term.
If you want your feelings to change, go ahead and change them.
Confused
NC is not about “punishing” the other person. It’s about removing oruselves from a situation that hurts us.
Even though our low self esteem puts us in these positions, we conversely think TOO MUCH of ourselves by imagining that these poor helpless men cannot cope without our amazing presence.
Er, they have CHOSEN to limit the relationship. They can cope very well without us and they know it otherwise they wouldn’t be playing fast and loose with us. Someone who doesn’t want to lose you will make it clear that a) you are in a relationship b) there is fidelity on both sides c) he has a future to offer you. If your support means that much to him, he would put himself on the line, not hold you at arm’s length and reap all the benefits without any cost to himself.
And for what it’s’ worth, President Obama got elected and rules the United States while maintaining his marriage. And I expect they have sex too though that’s none of our business.
Grace – I SO have to remember that President Obama line. That is so true!
Hahaha – Oh Grace that was good!!! LMAO
I am (once again) trying to enforce NC with my 8-plus year assclown and it is SO DIFFICULT. We have a 4 year old daughter together and he calls my home at least twice a day to speak to my daughter on the speaker phone and/or webcam, and he comes to visit our daughter a couple times per month (because he lives several hundred miles away). After years of struggling to move on, I have been successful at extricating him from my home for the most part during his visits (although he always ends up on my couch at some point). He declared that he wants to start sleeping with other women so I told him that he was no longer to speak to me (except about our daughter) or be at my home. He constantly disrespects these boundaries. He keeps trying to talk to me, call me, send me messages through our daughter — all AFTER he said I need to move on b/c he’s ready to find someone else. He is the quintessential EU AC who cannot commit to being together or being apart. I have read the article on this site about enforcing No Contact when you share a child with your assclown but this is a major, ongoing struggle. Thanks for the wonderful information and encouragement on this website and allowing me to vent.
Trying to Move On
@ Marilyn, I feel for you. it’s very difficult if you have child because you know he’ll be in your life in some capacity. i don’t understand why it’s a problem that he wants to sleep with other women if you are no longer in a couple…. ..if it was me, personally i’d be glad because he’ll be focused on the new woman and will have less time to be pestering you.
If he’s persisting in contacting you for his own gain, tell him once and once only, that you are not engaging with him any further except if it concerns your daughter, as you are moving on. I mean, he’s said this himself to you so use it to your advantage i..e you don’t want to engage with him because as he’s said himself, you must/want to move on. And if he keeps up the contact after that, just ignore it. He’ll eventually give up if he realises you are serious about it.
You MUST show him you are serious about not engaging with him by IGNORING HIM. It;s the only thing these assclowns understand!
hello ladies. another pointed post. i posted on post about lying written in early dec 2010. it gives brief background. the dude that had me in a twist always ran after me in a werid mr. big way (no flatter there. he is the big banker and me the freelance woman with good shoes. and that being the last comparison) he left for asia on “extended travel”. a blessing yes. but i found he moved to asia with a work colleague who puts him in her profile pic (facebook be damned. i have since deleted my account) #1. he said oh i never date colleagues. lie #2. he tried his best to well have a little roll in the hay (ala nyc style.. no hay). the DAY BEFORE HE LEFT and I am thinking NO WAY and I didn’t but i am so angry (at me) for not calling him out and then having him give me how much he cares for me and Oh wel will keep in touch. “don’t worry he said. it’s all good” no its not and i am in need of lady advice. grazie ciao… a
I am so glad I found this site. It has helped me so much. My question is this.. How do you go NC with a man you have 2 children for? And he is a big AC. He lies, he cheats, he is verbally and emotionally abusive. Around 6 months pregnant for my last child (she is 3 months old now) i went NC. For the 7 years we were together I had NEVER gone NC even after the lies and cheating.. he even made up some story that he had another child so he could be around an EGF with a valid excuse. It felt..well..good to go NC. I cried, I healed, I felt almost happy..as happy as I could be about to be a single mother of 2 kids. And then the baby was born and I contacted him and I was sucked right back into his vortex. I have only seen him a handful of times but now he has disappeared. Is it a blessing in disguise? The last thing he said to me is he will make it by when he makes it by and he disconnected his phone. Should I file for child support and reinstate NC? I don’t know what to do. He has never helped me financially. And I really don’t know if he will show up or not. He doesn’t seem concerned about the children or me. Please help.
Reinstate NC, file for child support if you can but if he has already had two kids with you that he doesn’t support, to look for him to make the third the exception to the rule and change the habit of a shady lifetime is foolhardy. Get on with your life. You’ve been raising your children alone anyway. I’m not saying it’s ideal – I’m saying it’s reality. He is not partner material and while some Acs will do their bit for their children, yours is not one of those and I wouldn’t keep testing the theory by having any more kids with him.
If he wants to have a relationship with the children at some point, you guys can work that out, but for the sake of yourself and your kids, stop having any sex /relationship with this man. Any arrangements made should be in writing and unless his contact is regarding the children, don’t bother with him
Thank you for your help. I should have explained myself better. When I was 6 months pregnant I ended the relationship and went NC. I haven’t slept with him since. It’s the promises he makes and doesn’t keep that keeps me hopeful he will be a father and maybe something to me. I just wasn’t sure if I should keep him in my life and try to work things out for the kids or completely cut him out of it. It sounded harsh to go NC with 2 children for him. Thank you for your encouragement I really appreciate it.
catherine
how is it “harsh”? you’ve given him more than enough chances to step up to the plate. yet he disappears, isn’t interested in the children and doesn’t contribute financially. i can see who’s being harsh here, and it isn’t you.
as is common in our situations, your further explanation just makes him sound even worse. it doesn’t justify what he does AT ALL.
by all means go after the child support. through a lawyer. though i’m concerned that you don’t see him for what he is. if you can’t put the boundaries in place for you and your children it might not be worth the money.
I have a question. I broke up with my AC about two months ago. My work planned a party at a restaurant that he works at. Now, if I see him, do I acknowledge him or ignore…my male friends said to acknowledge and move on and have a good time! My girl friends tell me to not say a thing…Personally, I would rather say whats up and move on…I think he might die of a heart attack if I do that but hes an AC he might think I want him! HELP ME…. I have to go to the party, its business
I get asked this question a lot – I call this the ‘And…move…’ technique. If he says hi, you say ‘hi’ and move on. You’re passing him ‘Hi’ and move. Basically no stopping. He stops you and grabs your arm and says ‘Hey, how are you doing?’, you say great, look at his hand on your arm…and move. Don’t ask him how he is or engage in anything. No dawdling. And make sure you enjoy yourself and no staring. Oh and if he tries to approach you, and…move to another group of people.
Love it! Thank you!
Dear Lisa,
I just practised what Natalie calls the “And…move” technique last night, when I met my ex at a party. I didn’t even TRY to speak to him or to be around him. It felt empowering! Sometimes it hurts to push him away, because, on one hand, I still care about him. But I know that this distance I’m imposing right now will be beneficial to me in the long-run. Much more beneficial than choosing to be the nice girl who accepts weird behaviour, and still kisses his backside! He has to know that I respect myself, and if he doesn’t do the same, I will step back from him! 😉
Sandra:
It was funny…he touched my shoulder when he walked by me and said “Hey”…i was like ew…but I said hi. AND that was that…I had a great time with my friends and although they told me he kept staring at me, I ignored him the whole time…I said hi, I acknowledged him , that is that. AND I found out that I am truly over him. My heart didnt go to my stomach when I saw him…I felt nothing..and it was great! I have moved on and so have closed he door on him!! YAY go me.
This board is helping me so much. My AC who killed our relationship with his emotionally unavailable bs keeps contacting me even though it is over two years since we broke up. It is like he hates to see me move on. I couldn’t figure this out until I started reading these posts. It is not like he is willing to come to the table or anything so why is he keeping it up with me under the guise of being friends. At one time he was my best friend although I realize I always held things together. I would always feel bad and take his phone calls. Didn’t feel like going into my 100th explanation of why we can’t be friends. I see from this there is no need for explanations. Not with an AC I need to be strong and do this!!!!
Yeah, don’t continue to allow yourself to be put through this!
By staying in contact you’re further destroying your self-esteem and not allowing yourself to heal properly.
Time to look out for yourself, and go NC. Block e-mails and phones from contact.
You have to look out for yourself, as no one else will.
I made the decision to do it but wow it is hard when they keep up the phone calls and start texting Are you ok? Should I write an explanation. I am just so tired of good bye letters and explaining. Shouldn’t he know? Damn
He should know, definitely. He’s just trying to get you to engage. Cut him off – and if you feel bad about the way you’re treating him when you ignore him, just remember just how badly he treated you! I am sure there are plenty of examples, or you wouldn’t be calling him an AC. He’s probably amazed that you haven’t done it already!
He does not deserve communication from you. This is not you being harsh with him, these are the consequences of his own actions. This is the situation he made for himself by acting like a twat (and he knows it – believe me). Don’t you feel guilty or obligated to this plonker for another second! Go and live your life. He had his chance with you.
This is a little saying that helps me through these situations “Mans rejection is Gods protection” Stay strong!!
This is the first time I’ve posted anywhere online, but I feel I really need the help. My story is long, but the nuts and bolts are this – I have what I’m sure is a EUM friend who I’ve known about twelve years. We are both married (to other people) and our families have done things together all that time.
He and I became entirely too close – I know that know. It really was at his direction – he started emailing, IMs, texting, calling, regularly, daily. Both our spouses knew this – in fact, they were often around when this was happening. There were some comments that it was excessive and I do think it started to have an effect. When I saw it becoming pretty excessive, I tried to knock it down a peg. Then he would always question my disappearance and so I always knew I would continue hearing from him.
I then became Florence Nightingale deluxe – couldn’t do enough for him, his family, his friends, it was pretty ridiculous. He did often help our family out when needed so I thought it was pretty reciprocal, but pretty soon, it started to become very one-sided. When I noticed that, I think it was too late but I started to pull back on my offers to help.
In the meantime, somewhere along the line I became less and less involved in their lives (which is a good thing), but yet I would continue to get daily texts and more often than not, they were when he needed help with something. I started feeling pretty resentful and thus started speaking up about his only communicating with me/us when he needed something. The more I “complained”, the more distant he became. I began to see this friendship as terribly off-kilter but wasn’t sure how to extricate myself.
I became the “Cried Wolf” person … I tried to pull myself out of the relationship because I could see what was happening, but every time I did that he would suck me back in, just enough to make me believe our friendship meant something, but not enough to actually be present in it. Soon the invites from he and his wife to my husband and myself started to drop off, the calls and emails as well, and basically what was left was a greeting of some sort every day or two and not really knowing anything about their lives. A very strange…
Sam, your post isn’t clear b/c of word limit cut-off…I’m unsure what you are searching for in a response because I didn’t see a question…I hope you see that and that you aren’t being ignored.
I apologize. I guess I thought the box would cut me off if I was too long-winded 😉
I am pretty sure I went on to say that this long-term friendship with my EUM friend seems to be ending and I’m in a way grieving it and finding it hard to move on. He (and his wife) seem to have little interest in our lives anymore and it is leaving a huge gap for me, particularly. I was very attached to them, and to their child. I miss them, plain and simple.
I get little tidbits of contact from him but they seem to just make me feel worse than if I didn’t hear from him at all. I am seeing a therapist who tells me basically to let it go and cherish the memories, but I seem to be stuck.
I think my question was simply – do I just disappear from this situation at this point? Or what can I do to keep it from dying entirely? It is a little bit different because it isn’t a romantic relationship, but it still is very sad because it feels like I’ve lost a great friend.
Thanks for any insight you can give me.
Sam
It’s inappropriate for a MM to contact a woman every day who’s not his wife. Even if it was his mother or sister it’s not right. His wife is number one. Your spouses may have know about it but I’m guessing she has put her foot down (quite right too) or he’s realised he was sailing close to the wind and has backed off.
You can’t be friends with them anymore.
You can’t keep it from dying – it’s not just your decision. Their silence says it all and it would not be right to pursue this further. It will make you look … bad. How would you feel if your husband was contacting a woman every day? How would you feel if he backed off and she came running after him. It just won’t work.
Yes, I know you are right. We have all been friends for many years and I think I will miss his child the most. It may be awkward too because we have mutual friends, but since we rarely see any of them, it may be a nonissue. I never really knew why he would contact me all the time, to be honest. But the bottom line is that these were important people to me, and now I need to let them go and am trying to work my way through it.
While I believe she has probably put the brakes on it, it was actually me a few weeks ago who said that I thought the constant contact had to stop. That came about because he blasted me about some issues in my family that I think were none of his business, which when I later described to my husband, my husband thought there is some real tension within their relationship and that my friend was taking it out on me instead. Totally inappropriate and I told him (the friend) this.
I still feel a great sense of loss. Hopefully my experience will be a lesson to anyone reading this, because this site has been a big help to me at least understanding what I am dealing with.
Hi Sam,
I think Grace is correct. In my experience when a MM is contacting another woman everyday, it is a red flag. FULL STOP. I wish I could have seen the red flag three years ago when the ex MM was texting, emailing, and calling me everyday because we were such “good friends” and, at first, it wasn’t romantic. In time, we became “entirely to close” and after a two year affair, I’m left picking up the pieces of my life. I feel like I’ve lost a great friend too. Maybe this would be a good time to connect with your husband? Can he be your great friend? Hugs.
I do have to add that I feel somewhat used in the process which is what brought me to this site. I am seeking therapy mostly in an effort to avoid becoming another married man’s sounding board like in this situation. I’m just sad that his issues (and my lack of boundaries) have doomed what was a fun friendship for all of us. Their child will want to see me, I know that. It is going to be tricky stuff to get through and I know they aren’t done with me, not quite yet. His wife hasn’t cut contact with me completely, I just don’t hear from her quite like I used to.
I’ve been there too Sam. Being a MM’s sounding board isn’t a relationship or a great friend. As Natalie put’s it, it is an emotional airbag. That doesn’t sound as wonderful as a great friend or soulmate I know. What about your husband and family? Everything you write is about him, his wife, and child. What about you, and your husband?
Runnergirl, my husband and I have always been close and this has actually brought us closer. I have had this happen to me two other times in our long marriage – the other two guys were just as messed up as this one was, almost exact same personalities. My husband thinks I take on these “rescue” cases and will likely do it again. I told him that is why for the first time in my life, I am seeing a therapist.
My friend needed me, I know that now, maybe even was in love with me at some point, and he crossed the line, at least emotionally, but I let him. I liked being needed but never would have considered an affair. The thing that bothers me the most though is that men and women cannot be close friends, it seems, especially if there are SO’s involved with each. If this friend of mine was a woman, I doubt I’d be in this predicament.
He does very much have all the “symptoms” of a EUM though so I am sure that the issues I’ve had with him are probably his wife’s problem as well, which could be what drew him to me. And then when I started needing more from the friendship, he has finally backed out. I really hate to see the friendship go but I saw the writing on the wall. I am glad I found this site that makes it make more sense to me now.
Sam
Men and women can be friends but the boundaries have to be quite tight. And if he’s EU, he’s incapable of keeping them. I was very friendly with some men at my previous job but now we are no longer friends. For us to get together, it can’t just be office drinks or a working lunch, it would be like making a date. It isn’t going to work.
I’ve somewhat downgraded my expectations regarding friendships. They can’t always be heart-to-heart and last years and years. Sometimes people come together for a while, enjoy each other’s company and then drift apart, especially with today’s geographical mobility. I’ve experienced it with female friends too. (But it’s not carte blanche for an EUM to mess you about!)
I think it’s part of good self-esteem to be able to take the rough and the smooth of it, not see it as a reflection on you, or something you did wrong, or something not right with the world. It’s justpart of life’s rich pageant!
Grace, part of my issues now with the therapist are centering around my self esteem and abandonment issues that made me cling to this relationship far too long. It wasn’t necessarily this particular friend, it is just a repeat of how I’ve felt over the years when various friendships have dwindled. And yes, you are right. I do know that they aren’t often lifetime … just for a time, and to be enjoyed for a time, and then let go. I think that’s where I stumble.
And Runnergirl, my husband is a great guy and has been completely supportive of this process with me. Yes, I do believe at one point he was concerned about my friendship with this man, which was the very first point I decided the frequent contact was too frequent. It was my EUM friend though who held on, sought me out, and dumped his life’s problems on me, and I thought I was being helpful. Each day that goes by, I realize I was just used, and there will likely be another after me to take my place.
I had another situation like this that ended several years ago, quite badly (a bridge definitely burned). It was a man I worked with. I quit that job because of it. Turned out a few months later, his wife left him. It seems I needed to be out of the fray before that happened, and it could happen again here, and I don’t need to be involved.
Just want to say – appears there is another “Sam” on these blogs … so for clarity, I will call myself Sam2 🙂
I do have a final question/comment. This is the first time in many years that he hasn’t contacted me in days, so I know there’s a good chance he will. This is a tricky situation – is total NC appropriate here? Because of the social circle (albeit very limited contact with anyone the last several months) we share, there are good chances of being in the same place at the same time and obviously I can’t avoid that, but what about texts and/or emails. I doubt he will call. That ended a long time ago. His preferred method of contact had become nearly all electronic.
The last time I saw him (two weeks ago) was when he verbally beat the crap out of me which led to my “final straw” moment.
My wonderful husband suggested I take a short trip to visit our daughter and I’m going to do just that. A change of scene is exactly what I need! 🙂
Thanks.