As someone who seems to have a natural aptitude for a busy mind, I’ve worked hard over the past few years to reduce the amount of time and energy I spend worrying and ruminating, especially as at times it’s affected my health. A few months back while listening to a talk on meditation, the speaker said something that immediately clicked with me and reflected my own experiences:
Mindfulness is about being in the present – not worrying about what isn’t happening and not trying to anticipate what’s next.
I recognise this as being one of the fundamental qualities of my relationship – unlike days of old, I have spent the majority of my relationship being too physically, mentally and emotionally connected to the present to be affected by anxiety, rumination, dissatisfaction, fantasising etc.
It’s important to remember something here: All of this time spent anywhere but the present questioning things, trying to work out what’s happening is pretty futile when you consider that the bulk of the answers actually reside in the present.
I went through a phase about 2-3 months into my relationship where my insecurities kicked in: When is the other shoe going to drop? What’s the catch?
Realistically, the act of riddling yourself with anxiety is like trying to look ahead using a vision and mentality that’s essentially made up of your beliefs, unhealthy, unrealistic and otherwise, and asking “Mirror, mirror, on the wall, how am I going to eff this up and fall?”
“I need to know if this is going to work out” a friend insisted recently. I told her it’s a bit like seeking assurances that the person isn’t going to get ill, run down, or have a bad day some time, or that even if they don’t know you, that they must know right now whether they see a future with you.
You need to be putting in the energy, effort, and emotion and enjoying and engaging in your relationship now.
If you’re not putting in these ingredients, which cover off your love, care, trust, respect, and discovering whether you have shared values, and you’re not enjoying it and you’re not engaging because you’re off in LaLa Land, what’s the point? Also what’s with the desperation to ditch your ‘old life’? Relationships, when they’re great are a wonderful addition to your life, but when you’re desperate for each relationship to be ‘it’, it’s like a blood soaked invitation to the shady sharks in the dating pool.
It’s not that you can’t look a little ahead but do you know what lies beyond there? “Should” and “Must”.
Next thing you’ve forecasted what you think the relationship should be, often based on assumptions and ego, not reality, and are prescribing what should and must happen and then busting your own and their proverbial balls about what hasn’t happened yet. “Why am I not good enough?”, “What can I change about them?”, “If this was going how I thought it should, they’d have asked me to move in by now or told me they loved me” and other such guff.
You don’t need to absolutely know that something is going to progress especially when you’ve barely known someone a hot minute or you’re not even that into them. The sheer number of people I hear from who invest so much energy worrying and anticipating who actually aren’t that fussed about who they’re with, they just want the validation of being chosen, is scary.
How about you live the relationship first, get to know them, and enjoy the present?
On the fear front, this invariably brings the relationship (or you) to its knees if it’s not nipped in the bud. Whoever you’re with is not your ex, or your father / mother, or whoever you have unresolved issues with. If you want a reasonably healthy relationship, you both need to have a decent level of personal security.
Let me tell you from personal experience – looking for reassurance that they’re not going to leave or that they’re not your ex and vomiting out your fears that actually exist independently of the relationship anyway, is not attractive. It doesn’t scream “Let’s make a future together” but it does raise concerns about whether you are cut out for the relationship and it flags up your trust issues.
At the very least, if you’re going to distrust someone, at least do it on merit – based on actions in the present, not what’s going on in your busy mind trying to work out what they might do.
Is it fear? Or is it knowledge? Fear means it’s not happening and knowledge means it is but that you’re not acting upon it and possibly even writing it off as fear.
If you spend too much time out of the present trying to anticipate what’s next, it’s actually fantasising. You will miss way too much and detach from the present. Geeing yourself up about what’s next will drain whatever battery is left in your fledging relationship. It’s exhausting for both of you, even if they play along with it initially and then of course have to backtrack after over-promising themselves or even violating the Trade Description Act by mis-representing themselves.
Someone else told me that they spent a lot of time thinking about what might be next – living together, meeting parents, marriage. They’d been together for just under two months and it was mostly long distance.
If you’re struggling to stay present, it’s time to ask: What is wrong with now? Why are you so dissatisfied? It’s like inadvertently communicating, “Now and in the near future isn’t good enough”.
I should also add that if you live in the past in your relationship, it means you’re treating the relationship as if it’s over. Even if you’re still in it, it’s like you’ve left the building.
It’s natural to think about the future a bit but it’s not so natural to exit your present or be ruled by fear. If you spend more time in the present, not only do you get to know them, your relationship, and ultimately what you want and how you feel, but the present can grow and soon become your future. This means what’s happening in the present can be an indicator of what may be there in the future. But there’s no point in anticipating what might be next and plotting out a fairy tale if the present is pretty lacking.
Do you know what you have to do? Pull over.
It’s like going too fast on the relationship highway – slow down, pull over, get your bearings, calm yourself down, talk rationally (and compassionately) to yourself, reconnect with the present and essentially get your mind off the Fear or Fantasy Motorway and get off at Junction Reality.
Another thing that I’ve learned is that you don’t have to chase after every thought. “Ooh a thought has entered my mind – I must think about it for as long as it stays” even though you actually stoke it. Next thing, the whole day has gone by while your mind lurches its way around.
Pull over. Come back to reality. Yeah of course your mind can wander for a few minutes, but pinch yourself and come back to earth. Set a timer if necessary – 10 minutes is good. Come back to reality – your present needs you.
Your thoughts?
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When you are with a FLIP-FLAPPER Mr Unavailable / chronic disappointer you can get VERY caught up in the fantasy because you live minute to minute about whether that text is going to come through, or how you are going to chat to them on IM or how they are going to come around, or trying to piece together what is going on and heavy analysis or guessing their next move. With a FLIP-FLAPPER EUM you’re on unstable, liquid ground, so it is not surprising to try and ‘predict’ what they might do next of how to win them over and get to the next level of commitment.
Status plays a huge role in society. Just having your facebook status as saying ‘HELLO EVERYONE I HAVE A *MAN* ON MY ARM!!’ LOOK AT ME!! is very attractive to many!
Many longtime readers of BR will know of my flip-flapper ‘friend’ Mr Unavailable in a fantasy non-relationship that gave me the final epiphany and had me offline and in recovery for an entire year. When I did recover I asked someone out then had anxiety attacks over them not phoning back.
Once good piece of advice – Let.It.Unfold
Hi TOA.
I post weekly about life/yoga, and have been holding back on publishing this week’s post for almost a year. When I read your words, Let.It.Unfold, I decided to give it a go. You never know who you help with your comments, so thank you.
The post is called Peacefully Unfolding, and it deals with anxiety over things out of our control. It’s the most recent post at yogaspeak.blogspot.com, if you wish to read.
This is sooooo fine! I recently heard that if you want to eliminate fear and anxiety….live in gratitude.
I am grateful for this message! I have a dear man who has been in touch with me from NYC ( I am in Philadelphia)….he is decent….and I don’t know what to do with him. Guess what… I don’t know and that is OK!!!!!
I am going to stop being anxious, I appreciate that this man likes me. That is enough.
As for the Bad Boys who don’t seem to forget me……I have it in my power to tell them that players are off my list. I actually did day this in an email to an old flame of 10 years who was looking to get “lucky”. When I told him that I was too busy and sensible to get involved with players…..he said that I was “being mature and serious,” Who cares what he thinks…….I took a stand that works.
We all need to appreciate that we live in a free society where women have power if we claim it. And when a man tries to take over….we leave! They eat our dust!
It feels good to be here again. I was on a detour with a male dating coach who was full of himself. It took too long to figure that out!
So true! I recently went away travelling for a few months and i nearly gave myself a heart attack wondering whether the boyfriend would wait for me, (but he did!) I realised while i was out there that my worrying about it was not going to make him be more attentive, or more likely to be faithful etc etc, these things were down to him and all i could do was enjoy my journey. Then I was worried about coming back and the relationship falling apart because i’d been gone so long, but that was just making me be all weird and flighty, to the point that he asked what was wrong! I was acutally sabbotaging the situation by imagining things that weren’t happening. I am much better now and letting it flow, so things are much more stable.
Also, i recently talked to a friend who told a guy she liked him, but the guy was all vague and non-committal about taking it further and i told her to take it at face value that he’s not that interested. She was trying to figure out ‘what it all means’, to the point where he wore nice new shoes to the pub and she was wondering if that meant something and who he was trying to impress! If you need to become Sherlock Holmes to figure out where something is going, then chances are it’s not going anywhere at all.
This post was so well said and helpful. I approached relationships as a potential cure for my lingering childhood hurts and heartaches ever since I was 16. I have never learned to trust in my 43 years. I waited for the other shoe to drop, and it always did because I was holding back until it did and never really putting my heart into my relationships because I was scared. Instead I invested my fragile ego and brittle self esteem. Fear has ruled me, manipulated me and ultimately stolen from me. But, I have been making some dramatic changes in myself lately, changes that I hope are for the better, like just being more in touch with myself, recognizing fear but not getting paralyzed it. This means taking chances I normally wouldn’t have before because this stupid fear is making me miss out on life. I’m relaxing, smiling more and not worrying so damn much, and its making me less self conscience and less’ reactive’. If someone does something crappy, well damn that sucks but it’s my choice to stay stuck in it or brush off the dirt and recognize that my happiness doesn’t involve staying in the hurt ego mode of ‘why me, what’s wrong with me?’ I make better choices and see a view of things I’ve never been able to see before without fear distorting my interpretation. It’s taken a few years to get here, but the clean air up here is so much better. I still wobble here and there, and have bad days but the process of learning to accept and love myself is paying off and so within reach.
“I waited for the other shoe to drop, and it always did because I was holding back until it did and never really putting my heart into my relationships…”
I think that says so much. I think we’re looking to have others invest and become wildly committed but we get to analyze whether things are good or not and invest accordingly. (I will add that “bitching” and/or “analyzing” about what the relationship “is” or “is not” doesn’t equal investment…it’s pretty much wasted energy.) I was always holding back (emotionally) and yet expected things to progress methodically. When it didnt progress…I shrunk back and would ultimately make the situation worse. In reality I should have just let the relationship go. Two dynamics going on there…self-fulfilling prophecy and fear of intimacy.
Great post.
Hello! I recently de-lurked myself on another post, but I must say, this one is timely and insightful as ever. I’ve always been prone to fantasy and had a hard time staying present and while I’ve gotten *much* better at being grounded lately, I still struggle with this when it comes to relationships. I’ve noticed a disturbing trend in my life, recently: while I am decisive and driven in most areas of my life (work, education, friendships, etc.) I have become *terribly* passive aggressive when it comes to men. This distresses me because I despise passive aggression in any form. While I am polite, I have never had a problem being direct with people or dealing with confrontation. I know my new passive aggressive habit is because I spent much of my teens and early twenties suffering from low self-esteem and throwing myself at guys who clearly (in retrospect) didn’t care one whit about me. I am used to being led on and having the rug pulled out from under me, often in deliberately cruel in malicious ways. I’ve grown up a lot in the last two years. My self-esteem is *worlds* above where it used to be, but I find I have almost swung in the opposite direction. Instead of throwing myself at self-involved jerks, I now try to communicate *dis*interest when I really like a guy for fear of scaring him off. I realize this is counter-productive and it has recently begun to have a significant impact, not only on my happiness, but that of other people as well. I think passive-aggression may have recently caused me to miss out on a potentially great opportunity and I could use some advice on how to reign this in, so I don’t continue to make the same mistake in the future.
Reality
It’s practice. You can’t learn to drive by just reading the car manual, thinking about driving, watching other people drive, talking to other people about driving. At some point you have to get behind the wheel and take control of the car and deal with whatever comes your way.
My church has really helped me out with that. They “pushed” me into membership. they pushed me into giving a talk, they’ve pushed me into study groups. They have made me jump in and speak up, the thing I feared most in the whole world. And it’s been absolutely fine! I can do it!
Putting up barriers for a man to leap over is the easy way out. I DON’T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING! LET HIM PROVE HIMSELF. But we have to show interest and be encouraging, warm, engaging, approachable. Because it’s mostly the EUs, nutters and ACs who will look at a woman’s” keep back” signal and defensiveness, and pursue anyway.
And even if you don’t get the guy, you’ll make tons more friends and be happier.
I dated a man for 17 months. He was my first relationship in many, many years. We started out slow, seeing each other once or twice a month, and eventually became a couple. After about 13 months, we had our first misunderstanding. He told me I might not be the girl for him and we split for about 2 weeks. After we talked about the incident things were better for about 6 weeks. Then he told me if it happened again he would walk away and not need closure. Well, on May 10th it happened again. The “it” I refer to was my behavior of fear and insecurities combined with alcohol coming out at inopportune moments. All along I was being fed crumbs by this man who I felt deeply for. After reading BR, I realized what text messages as a means of communication is…crumbs. We have been in contact since then but initiated on the most part by me. He told me he has both feet in on rebuilding the relationship and wants to take baby steps. But there is no contact initiated by him. We have talked about seeing each other weekly or biweekly to work on the baby steps. Supposedly we have plans to spend the day this Wednesday but as I write this there are no confirmed plans. I am having a difficult time living in the present. I know what my mind is telling me but my heart …well, I don’t know. I just read the last sentence from the comment before mine…”If you need….to figure out where something is going, then chances are it’s not going anywhere at all.” Wow! How fitting for this situation.
Him saying that if ‘xyz’ happened again that he could walk away with no need for closure is a red flag. If he REALLY cared & was emotionally invested he would need closure. My guess is that this guy is EUM. He’s clearly not as invested as you are as you do most of the initiating. Nat’s advice that he’s just not that special comes to mind. Plus you deserve better than crumbs. Do yourself a favour and FLUSH now before you sign up for a whole new round of pain!
What can i say? The guy is a YUTZ!
FLUSH!
I had my last EUM tell me he wanted to take things slow with me and I went along because I thought I was being reasonable. Whenever there was some friction (he would start an opera over any silly remark I made) I was the one to calm him down.
Guess what? It was no use. He remained EU and I had (am still having) a hard time letting him go because these guys have a knack of giving you enough crumbs to keep you hooked. And then, when you decide you´re not waiting around for them anymore they become sooo repentant and charming that you fall in that trap again!
If you stop contacting this guy he will probably pursue you again – in fact, there´s a whole program to “catch” a commitment phobe based on being indifferent. But dear girl, please follow this advice: RUN! Don´t let this man mess with your emotions and your self esteem! You deserve and will find a real nice man once you let go of this crap.
I dont know if this pertains to this post or not but a friend of mine texted that she wanted to meet over drinks because she was feeling very awkward about something and had to get it off her chest. I couldnt figure out for the life of me what she was referring to so I made up all kinds if things in my mind including she was dating my exbf. Turns out she was fretting for weeks because she wasnt going to invite me to her daughters wedding, something I couldnt care less about and never thought a thing about. So she fretted for weeks and I fretted for 24 hrs over something that wasnt even happening. What a useless waste of energy.
She is a true friend. Making the effort to meet with you in person shows great respect and care for you, even if the issue turned out to be something you didn’t mind.
I’m a “pre-emptive strike” kinda girl. I get so anxious and worried and afraid that someone might dump me, hurt me, reject me, _____ me, that I do it to them first and totally muck up a situation that was totally fine on its own.
I see a future that scares me, albeit a future largely made up in my own head (and, yes, as NML says, based on past experiences that exist APART from the current situation) and BAM! I tell a guy, “You don’t need to call” because then when he doesn’t call I can tell myself, “It’s because you told him not to” and mitigate the pain that would’ve happened if he just didn’t call on his own because he didn’t want to. Follow all that? It’s sick. It’s exhausting. And I’m done with it.
“Your present needs you.” <— thanks for that.
your values must be flexible not rigid (unbending and universally applied), your rule that u must be liked by everyone, is an universal value which is unhealthy, i.e you must either follow the rule or feel worthless, it effects your self-esteem.
flexible rules include a built-in awareness that a certain percentage of the time you will fail to live up in the ideal standard.
an example of a rigid rule is “i should never make mistakes” striving for excellence is a worthy ambition, but you need a healthy quota for mistakes and failures, without such your stress level will be high, and your self-esteem will be destroyed by the smallest mistake.
you expect to be liked by everyone, this is a rigid value. flexible values allow u to do mistake. its human, its life moving on to be rejected ignored sometimes and we have to accept that…
“You don’t need to absolutely know that something is going to progress especially when you’ve barely known someone a hot minute or you’re not even that into them. The sheer number of people I hear from who invest so much energy worrying and anticipating who actually aren’t that fussed about who they’re with, they just want the validation of being chosen, is scary.”
— Yes, this is so appropriate for me. My last stint with a Mr.Unavailable included lots and lots of anxiety, over-thinking, wondering if we would work out, trying to anticipate the entire relationship from our first few conversations smh. I did not want to go through the pain of attachment and being hurt or investing too much and then it not amounting to anything, so tried to crystal ball it from day one. I also think part of me KNEW he would be an EUM and knew he would never be reliable, but the pattern I’ve learned of competing for validation and being chosen went into overdrive where I had to try to be an exception.
I’m really learning though and realize that dating is a discovery phase and that no one is that special and I don’t need to dive in too quickly or know how it will all turn out. If I keep my eyes and ears open and live in the moment, I’ll be able to actually discover the reality of the relationship as it’s progressing, instead of planning our future that may not happen OR worrying that the future (with someone I don’t even know well) won’t happen. Saying it out loud makes it sound so insane lol. Funnily with my last EUM, I realized we wouldn’t work out, even if he wasn’t EUM and was doing everything right, showing up, not being flaky, prioritizing me, etc…even if he was, we wouldn’t work, yet while I KNEW this and he was also showing me the EUM signs…I still so wanted to be chosen. I’m learning with each misstep though and am excited to continue dating and applying this knowledge.
This post is exactly where I’m at now with my once again resurrected relationship. It is so hard for me to be mindful with all that has happened and all the uncertainty I have, but without it I can’t know the truth. I have to remind myself, I don’t need to know if he’s ‘the one’ right now, that by being mindful, the truth, instead of my massive fears will reveal itself. It’s a tough one for me.
I fear the unknown, I worry that I’ll never find someone. So I take comfort in fantasies sometimes. The minute I meet a guy, he occupies my thoughts – even though I have a very full life with a busy job, friends, fitness routine, etc. Because I’ve been single most of my life, the minute a man seems the tiniest bit promising, he takes over my mind. Meditation & therapy have helped. More importantly, I remind myself daily that only I can control my happiness. No one else!
Gosh, Sabrina, this sounds like me!
Have you ever been diagnosed with – or has anyone suggested that you may have – OCD or an anxiety disorder? This, strangely enough, has really helped me to come to grips with why I would obsess, ruminate and fantasise.
The obsession comes with the territory of being me – overachieving, busy job, etc etc etc. It’s like a separate problem that I have to deal with, but it impacts on my attitude to love and romance.
People with high levels of anxiety are usually also depressed and over-think things, as Natalie suggested – and it’s really draining. Again, me in a nutshell.
With that kind of emotional load on, it’s no wonder we fantasise – it’s like an endorphin rush that heals, comforts, soothes away all the jangled edges. In a fantasy world, we can control everything and there are always happy endings.
This has helped me to try to make sense of the relationship madness – that it’s not just ‘I am unlucky in love’ or ‘I make poor choices’ or ‘I am a silly girl who wants a white knight’.
It’s acknowledging that there are other things going on here with my general mental health and outlook on life that extend into my love life. The whole thing needs to be addressed, not just the love life.
We have a lot in common, then! I have actually been diagnosed with anxiety disorder. It’s something I’m seeking treatment for, medically and through therapy, but it’s still my “normal.” Just like you, I’ve found it helpful to manage these issues, and it’s extended into my love life. Although there’s part of me that will never stop worrying, I’ve certainly toned it down!
Sabrina
I know exactly how you feel. If you tough it out, not give free reign to the thoughts (as the post says, you don’t HAVE to follow them) it does pass, Quit the analysis. DON’T discuss it ad infinitum with all your friends. Keep up your good habits – exercise, healthy diet, your interests.
A less healthy-minded person might say that the calmer you means the “spark” has gone or that the chemistry has faded. I say, no, you found your way back to solid ground. Here is a man. He is just a man. See how it goes.
Sabrina…we are so alike! I tend to do the same and that’s why now I have chosen just to be alone until I figure myself out.
Sabrina,
“the minute a man seems the tiniest bit promising, he takes over my mind.”
It drives me crazy! I dream about him being a part of my life, try to work out the logistics of being together, and that dream can quickly turn into fear and make me anxious, like I might have to lose some of my independence. I can’t focus on what I’m meant to be doing and get frustrated. I used to think it was love and infatuation, but now I know there is nothing romantic to it and it’s just noise. I really want to share my life with someone but have clearly been held back by negative experiences of this and just don’t believe it can happen.
I like the “slow down, pull over, get your bearings, calm yourself down, talk rationally” in this post. It might help me to hold a powerful image the next time I have these fantasies, I will tell myself ‘don’t crash, keep your eyes on the road, concentrate (on NOW) or better stop for a minute’. I struggled recently, felt this nice guy (I think) was smothering me when really, I knew all along that I was smothering myself with him. And knowing this made me annoyed with myself, but still made me too anxious around him.
I can see from this why it gets further with ACs – they play a game of grabbing you and then stepping back so that the focus is ‘why aren’t they interested anymore/ooh they’re interested again’, rather than ‘he is consistently interested so better think about a REAL relationship and whether I want it with this person and whether I am capable’.
Right! It’s scary to yield that much power to a man. And I KNOW I shouldn’t be letting him live “rent free” in mind. But that’s why my defensive walls go up and I stay single…. all the while wishing I had someone 🙂
I have to strongly disagree.
Not every situation can be described in this way. Our emotions are an important ingridient in our lives. But recently the trend is to – get rid of the bad emotions and you’re good! Happy ever after. That is bulls…
Your emotions, anxiety and fear especially, tell you where you are, they are our natural intuition that guides us.
I see people all around going after their instincts, rationalizing their fears and anxieties like that. They end up in two possible ways: one is getting really hurt at the end (coz their fears prove to have been right) or they live trapped in a fantasy world and deny ever seeing the reality for what it really is.
Living in the present is good, but you know what‘s better – a healthy balance of experiencing the present as well as the past (experiences) and the future (expectations).
If you just live your life never thinking what you want of it – even now this very moment, you let others create your life for you. You accept whatever’s coming.
If your intuition tells you something is wrong – you know what?- It most probably is! Finding out what it is may be hard or even impossible in some cases, but you have two choices of getting rid of it – one is getting rid of the source – lover, job, place you live in, etc, the other – getting rid of your feelings. While the second option may make you happier for a moment, the first one will make you happy ever after and more importantly – enable you to find the things that are fear/anxiety free.
I believe life should be simple. Same goes for relationships. If you feel like you have to ask some things or you cant ask some things or you should or you would and so on – why bother? Keep looking, dont settle. Because when you’ve found what is good for you you will know – and the know is in the lack of fear and anxiety.
catherine
I get your point, but I have an anxiety disorder and to me anxiety is about AVOIDING emotion rather than an emotion in itself.
In the depths of my anxiety over the excrush/whatever, people were naturally assuming that he must be doing something wrong. I’d assume the same if someone’s new friendship/relationship was causing anxiety. I kept saying no it’s not that. The more I protested, the more of a red flag it seemed. What was really bugging me was that I didn’t feel good enough. And that brought down an avalanche of “stuff” that has nothing to do with him – my childhood, the abuse, the past crappy relationships.
Anxiety is fantasy – but it’s fantasizing all the bad stuff rather than “good” stuff. How he’s going to reject me, how his familywill hate me, how I’m not pretty anymore. It achieves nothing except drive us down a sulf-fulfilling dead end.
That’s not to say we should blithely ignore our intuition. But a few months down the line I wonder if my first intuition was not correct after all. That as we stood in the church lobby staring at each other, that something good might happen.
I’ve followed Nat’s advice to me as far as I was able – live in the present, enjoy life. And since then I have become so much happier. I’m going to carry on doing it.
“I get your point, but I have an anxiety disorder and to me anxiety is about AVOIDING emotion rather than an emotion in itself.”
Ohhhh Grace, I was there at one point (and by “one point”, I mean “approximately one decade”) too. For me, learning how to let go of that was THE most important thing I learned from Nat and the BR ladies! Being in the here and now if infinitely more enjoyable than obsessing over stuff that hasn’t happened/may never happen/only ever really happens on Mistresses or Footballer’s Wives (yes, we watch these in the US 😉 ). As a plus, thoroughly enjoying life is quite sexy to dudes…just sayin’!
You make some vaild points. I think it’s about having a balance. LEARNING from the past whilst living in the present. 🙂
Catherine- What you are talking about it not getting rid of the bad emotions, its stuffing them, avoiding them, and being emotionally unavailable. People who “rationalize” their feelings do find themselves in a world of hurt. If you have a healthy dose of self esteem, have good boundaries, and have unloaded your extra baggage and left it behind, you can go forward in life with a more positive outlook, less emotional extremes, healthier choices for yourself. Its almost as if you get a fresh start. Its not a denial, or being a Marge Simpson, lol, but a rebirth, if you will. At least that is how I see it. Most days I wake up optimistic and ready to face the world, but my judgment is more on cue than ever. Now more than ever I trust my intuition and go with my feelings. And the feelings aren’t always “good” per say, but the good far outweigh the bad and I’m certainly in reality and am able to stay in the present. Does that make sense?
Lo J, well stated.
Catherine,
Have you experienced this ‘know’ without fear and anxiety in relationship? I’ve always believed that I would ‘know’ and everything would be easy in relationship, but I have never never never experienced this myself. I’d like to know that it’s not just a fantasy and if there is such a thing, does it last?
Catherine,
I’m a therapist, and I go to mindfulness therapy. It’s not about not feeling emotions. It’s about not allowing them to take over. Once your negative thoughts overpower everything else in your mind, then you become very anxious and stressed out, which in turn is bad for your overall health.
Mindfulness is about learning how to actually feel what you are feeling – which also means getting in touch with the sensations in your body. If you feel anger, sometimes your chest is tight. If you feel guilt, your head might feel tight, nervous, your belly. We often let these things go, only to ruminate on the thought and images we create, rather than actually FEEL the emotion and what we are going through at the present time. If I feel angry, I have learned to say “What is it I am feeling, where do I feel it, what do I need for myself right now?” Breathing is at the core of mindfulness. Learning to identify our emotions, and breathe through the feelings is what helps us feel it, not shove it. Live with it, and let it go so it doesn’t limit our daily functioning.
Good call.
Mindfulness as a therapy/approach in general is very helpful for people like me who suffer from anxiety to a disabling degree. There are actual physical techniques I can use to ‘ground’ me in the present, which is where I really need to be, after all (especially when driving; I have a horrid tendency to PTSD flashbacks while driving and really need to be able to snap back quickly).
Last time I was here (in the days when Natalie was single!) I needed help to flush a Mr Unavailable, and I did so, and I am SO GLAD; I recovered really quickly as well, which I didn’t expect – bonus!
Since then I’ve met another one, but in a different form (tricky bastards, aren’t they?) This particular guise, however, I have met before – churchy, aloof, and I suspect deep-down gay, and if not gay, then with some real issues with women.
This one asked for my number and got it – ‘hey, everyone gets a chance!’ I said to myself at the time, but now looking at the description I just gave above, I am slapping my forehead …
Huge surprise: he hasn’t called me, and it’s been a month. I have already caught myself ‘putting myself in his way’ a couple of times, but to my credit (!!! I need to clutch at the baby steps here) I have not initiated anything like asking him out for ‘coffee’ as a ‘friend’ or anything else.
So I did the BR catechism: ‘if he doesn’t call, he’s not interested. Don’t worry about. Move on to the next thing.’ Reality check, mindfulness-style: We have had two or three conversations, during which he has emerged as a dreamer with his head in the clouds and his eye to the main chance, and a tendency to be good on talk and short on follow-through.
Oh dear, I have SO been here before.
Query: do I want to be with someone like that?
Answer: No.
Query: So why get antsy about it?
Answer: Yeah, why indeed? Why indeed …
Rinse and repeat.
And this time it’s been much easier to avoid the wedding fantasies as well. So I think I am making progress, which is really encouraging.
Just the ticket and perfectly timed again.
I have recently read Eckhart Tolle’s book The Power of Now, it is so true we spend so much of our time, either in the past or future which ultimately causes a lot of pain. What else is there other than the present and just being. Our minds can be powerful tools if we learn how to use them properly and not let thoughts take us over.
Really enjoyed reading your article and has spurred me on to do some more mindfulness meditation.
This rings very true – but it seems to apply to the EU!
My last promising relationship ended because, after a month, he was arranging to see other people. When I confronted him, it was ex issues, trust issues, second-guessing, blah blah. How I’d love to send him this post – I told him I felt the same way, that I was scared too, but was focused on enjoying the present. If he was too, we’d probably still be together. Or not. But it wouldn’t have ended the way it did, when it did.
I love your work Nat! i REALLY DO! It’s awesome!
Minky…”If you need to become Sherlock Holmes to figure out where something is going, then chances are it’s not going anywhere at all.”
I think I’ve read Nat say this elsewhere somewhere also. SO TRUE!!
Jennynic
We are the same age, and I totally relate. I got into therapy aged 17 yo and have had it on and off throughout my life so managed to break SOME patterns very early on BUT suspect I went a tad too far in the opposite direction on another.
For example, I learned to avoid (in the main and with only one short lived exception) abusive relationships as an adult, after realising these reflected my child abuse history, however, in being determined not to be abused I became overly self reliant and thus am now Nat’s ‘Ms Independent’ type. Although I chose to stay single for 15 years whilst my Son grew into an adult (a choice which I felt was right at the time – to avoid my Son being exposed to a passing parade of step father figures in case things didn’t work out – something which I question the logic of this now), when I started dating again approximately 4 years ago, I then found that being independent, that on one occassion, I attracted an EUM because I was SO independent that he was happy to rest back on his laurals and stay living with mummy (he was 36 yrs old & had NEVER moved out of home!!) because, hey, I had my own home / career / $$$ so didn’t ‘need’ him to step up to the plate in any way (i.e. how convenient – for HIM!!)
I’d never dated a guy who lived with his Mother before so didn’t know that was a red flag (and his Mother IS elderly and her husband deceased although I soon saw through this excuse). It took me 6 mths to work him out, and upon declining his suggestion that I one day move in with him & his Mother (was he kidding?!) I (astutely) opted out.
The thing I relate to in your post is that this independent streak I have (which is somewhat to the extreme (i.e. I insist on owning my own home outright, being totally financially independent, completing my studies & having my career back on solid ground again BEFORE I will feel ready to date again) is that all of this is underpinned by FEAR. Fear that I will be homeless again like I was as a child. Fear that a man is going to screw me over financially. Fear that a man will try to take my house. Fear that I will get cheated on and things will come crashing down anyway even if I do meet someone nice. I’m still recovering from an awful situation with an ex (the sole abuser who slipped through my normally steel reinforced bounderies as an adult) and so am not fit to date…
not fit to date atm, BUT I would like to learn to be a little more flexible about these things. Protecting one’s assets is failry easy to do but even thnigs not allowing myself to date until my studies are finished, or until my career is back on track are a bit extreme. The fact is that if my situation stays stable for the next 12 months I will own my house outright anyway. So why I couldn’t date after that perhaps, even whilst studying and before re-establishing my career? I will cross that bridge when I come to it but am grateful that this site makes me THINK. Ruminating is not a good thing but self examination is healthy and I’m in a stage where lots of that is called for 🙂
This was so me – before I started reading this column. I spend so much time fantasising and plotting and ruminating about this man that in the end I felt that I was getting out of control of my feelings and that I rationally couldn’t understand why I felt so intense about someone who lived 5 hours away… Then I realised it the intensity was generated by my thoughts – not by my reaction to him. The more I thought about him the more intense my feelings for him got – both positive and negative. The intense positive feelings were based on my fantasies, the negative on my fears. And the anger I directed at him at times was when I saw how little his feelings for me measured up to my fantasies. And once i had fantasised that he had strong feelings for me I was too proud to take note of his behaviour that very clearly refuted that – instead I made up stories or issues or things I had done wrong to legitimise my fantasy of how he felt about me and ignore reality. Because frankly those fantasies felt good! Very good! I am so glad I am out of that headspace – and yes I like him, but I can survive without him and I no longer sleep with him as his values around honesty and commitment are not close enough to mine.
oy vey. this is SO me. or used to be, maybe its not so me anymore. let’s hope.
I haven’t posted for a while but was reminded today of how much this site and you,Natalie had helped me over the course of three years or so to
‘return myself to the present’.
Reflection and ruminating obsessively are two different things.At times I was trapped in the past,seeking explanation from parents or exes and when of course, I didn’t get explanation…I would obsess about reasons.Imagine the worst reasons possible.Find myself wanting.
Yet reflection is necessary for me to stay focused and in the’now’. I remind myself how far I have come in my self esteem and am energised about goals..not frightened to make them these days. I’ll achieve some, not others but that’s ok.
I often burst out laughing at how daft my life had become in my last relationship.Severe loss of marbles.
My life with the ex EUM was fraught and self-reproaching. I veered between trying to make order out of chaos and profound sadness.
I will never again allow myself to be in a situation like that.These days, a year or so on, I am single,full of energy and building on what I need to do now…. for a hopeful and interesting future.
BR gave me back my capacity to hope.
This used to be a very bad habit of mine, especially as someone who, as is my nature, prefers to plan things instead of being spontaneous. Now it’s easier to stop those thoughts quicker, not linger on them long, and replace those thoughts with something else. Still have work to do on this, but have come a long way. 🙂
@Teachable
Insisting on having your own home and completing your studies is not being too independent, it’s taking care of you. I cannot tell you how many womyn I have met that stay in crap/abusive relationships because to leave would mean being homeless. Also, education is something NO ONE can take away from you. One should only be in a relationship because they want to be, never need to be. Any guy that says you are too independent is just masking his own insecurities and unavailability.
A timely post; I am actively practicing initial detachment, having zero expectations, with any on line guy I encounter because there is so much “false advertising” out there. Met a guy at the local coffeehouse yesterday. He showed up wearing a white shirt (dirty), smelled unwashed, and is obviously physically fragile, not fit as advertised (I suspect malnutrition due to weird dietary habits). He proceeded to treat me to three solid hours to a discourse on his health issues. I finally cut him off in order to keep an appointment to hike with a woman friend. If I’d gone into this meeting with any expectations, it would have been very sad at the least. As it was, I didn’t care in the least that it is a no go, I am merely annoyed because I could have used that three hours to get work done on my farm.
Oh, miskwa, I do love your posts. I asked about the diversity of the student population when I accepted this new teaching job, and everyone just shifted uncomfortably, and eventually they just said there isn’t any. I only plan to be out there ten months but who knows. I thought, I may be stuck somewhere where my politics and background make me very different from those around me. I always think of you as – why is this? – I don’t even know if you’re native or not? or do i? – this feisty first nations woman growing organic food while surrounded by guys with pick up trucks and gun racks.
Your description of your date made me laugh, but perhaps that’s because I have watched too much North of 60. You are great. Don’t date the unwashed. I am so rooting for you.
I can relate well to what teachable says. I too have raised a child on my own and was very aware of protecting her from a ‘passing parade of stepfathers’. I am now 51 years old and I have never married/never lived with a man – not even for a wee while – never (something which seems to astonish some women when it comes up in conversation; typically women who have lived with a number of different men or been married more than once or twice – they seem to find me very odd!). I have never depended on a man – but I’ve had to work much harder than my peers who are married, I have less; I struggle more. I think if I was not EU before becoming a single, unmarried mother, I definitely was EU when she came along (but not and never with her; she is the great love of my life!); I think the very few men I have dated since she came along were EU for a reason – they suited my circumstances and what I thought I had to offer a man (or so I thought – though I question that now too, of course!).
I don’t mean to stray too far off topic, but I wanted to say in reply to Miskwa’s response above, that I agree women should not need to stay in relationships because they would be homeless or because they don’t want to be there but need to be there, but the reality is that for many women (like my mother for example) they do need to; there is little, if any, other practical option for them (this has been a feature of women’s lives for centuries, and even in the western world today for many it remains the case, most especially if there are children).
Thanks for the reply Miskwa and Fearless.
I agree with you both. As a feminist of the radical persuasion, lol, I decided at a very young age that come hell or high water, I would NEVER have a man in my life because I ‘needed’ one for housing etc. I’ve stuck to that & I don’t regret it, so I will continue on that path BUT it isn’t easy getting back into dating at this age. I wasn’t EU when I decided not to date whilst my Son was growing up, I just made a conscious decision not to date, and that was that. I’m not fit to date at all right now so I guess it’s all a moot point. I would like to ease up just a tad though on my expectations of where I need to be at before feeling ready to date. At this rate (due to needing to complete post grad also) I’ll be pushing 50 before I get back out there! lol
This is one area where I really struggle…staying in the present!!!!!! I remember in past relationship where it almost entirely consisted of my fantasies…I was almost always never fantasising about the actual realistic person..even after fights where they had been yelling at me I’d still find a way to imagine myself into this beautiful Austenean romance after I’d stormed off..:P
And of course I’d always be preoccupied with the future…always. I think though as much as the last relationship sucked and destroyed me for months, I’m grateful for it in a way because I know that the next will not be the same. I’m different now and know when to bail. Partially thanks to Baggage Reclaim. 🙂
Hi,
I’m new to this blog. I am having a rough time with a ‘mr unavailable’ I have been with the guy on and off for 2 years – each time he ends it (by text) and I hang around crying and begging for him to come back. The break ups are usually because he doesn’t want to be in a relationship, that being with me is no longer fun r because I have refused to do something because of work or the fact that it is the middle of the night so he has called the whole thing off. The pattern usually ends up with after a large amount of time of me waiitng around I decide that it must be over and to accept it, and then he tells me he wants to give it another go. We gave it another go and now i’m in the situation where he has ended it again- he said on Saturday night that he is ‘incapable of love’ and cannot commit to me 100% and that he can’t keep putting me through this. However on Sunday it was my fault and said that I caused it and maybe of I wasn’t so boring and repetative in bed it would have worked. At this moment in time I am feeling very sorry for myself and wonder how to move on and be happy without him
oh HELLLL no!! he told you what?? that you were boring and that is why he can’t commit? I have been in more shady situations , ive been the one to end it by text, disappeared on etc, so I feel comfortable recognizing one. This is beyond jacked up. What saved me was doing MOST of what I could myself, and finally meeting someone that is helping me the rest of the way. Treats me like I have never been treated before. Please see this man for what he is. Women play way more games than men, if a man tells you he can’t commit, whether it means ever or just to you, believe him. It took me a long time to get myself even on the way to better where I am now. I wrote all day sometimes, took more walks than I can tell you, signed up for classes, anything. People don’t like responsibility , and closing doors all the way is hard. He may have moments of regret where he feels bad for what he is doing, but you stay and beg him to come back. ofcourse he will take it. oh please bounce him, and love yourself.
Marie
sit up and pay attention (all your attention) to what’s going on right now (and has been going on for two years) and use it to inform your own next steps. Stop waiting for him to fix it. He isn’t going to fix it for you – you need to be take charge and control of what happens to you next. You wonder how to move on and be happy without him? Moving on will give you a chance to be happy; is sticking round another two years or four or six or ten for booty calls and the like from this user your idea of a ‘happy’ future for you? Think about what the future with him really means and not what you’d like it to mean, and deal in and with the reality. NC him. That’s how you move on.
Marie, he deserves a slap in the face. You need to avoid feeling sorry for yourself like the plague because it detracts from your self esteem and leaves you unable to do something about this situation. So then it can go on and on and on, with you feeling worse every time.
I was thinking there is probably a strategy behind these EUMs behaviours: they train us to feel inferior, and then they can establish the dynamics they enjoy – all the benefits and none of the responsabilities.
They are only using us, you know!
I haven´t figured out yet how to move on and be happy when these guys make us feel like sh*t but I guess getting angry helps, being stubborn with NC, and just convincing yourself that someone better will come along once the EUM is out of your system.
I’m with Katy, bounce him! When he calls next time, just chuckle and ask him to not call again. Do NOT waste your time on an inconsiderate AC who wants to put all the blame on you. This would be repeated wash, rinse, repeat, with your self esteem being put through the ringer endlessly.
You are a considerate, special woman. Believe it because it’s TRUE, and as Nat would say, FLUSH!
Marie, gonna copy & paste what you typed:
“each time he ends it (by text) and I hang around crying and begging for him to come back. The break ups are usually because he doesn’t want to be in a relationship, that being with me is no longer fun r because I have refused to do something because of work or the fact that it is the middle of the night so he has called the whole thing off. The pattern usually ends up with after a large amount of time of me waiitng around I decide that it must be over and to accept it, and then he tells me he wants to give it another go.”
“However on Sunday it was my fault and said that I caused it and maybe of I wasn’t so boring and repetitive in bed it would have worked.”
He’s taking the piss, playing sick games with you & your mind. Anytime you think that you want him back, please re-read what you’ve typed and understand why it’s best to get away from him.
Flush this walking shit-stain down the toilet for good. Wishing you the best as you move ahead.
Thanks for all the comments guys, I know it is time to move on and it is my fear and uncertainty keeping me there but need to be strong x
I think this relates: I’m just finishing up a long visit to my parents’ place. My father is as he has always been. Not fully present emotionally, just doesn’t pay attention to relationships or tap into other people’s … well, being other people. At least it doesn’t seem so to me. I think that I have been “present” in standing there, or sitting there, listening to him talk about his interests, noticing as always that he won’t (I prefer to think ‘can’t’ ask about me), and just noticing how I feel about it.
I still feel frustrated and sad. I thought that I had accepted that he is incapable of being a father who ADDS calmness, thoughtfulness and presence to a situation but is more a man who I used to be dependent on who now continues to only engage me if he is telling me something I should know (doesn’t happen so much anymore), or if I’ve decided to listen to him go on about his hobbies, and who TAKES security out of a situation by being easily frustrated, and spending impulsively, bringing my mother into ever more debt. My mother of course isn’t blameless in allowing all this to occur.
But at least I know my mother thinks about me and knows what’s going on with me. My Dad is always clueless; forgets what you tell him or isn’t listening half the time.
The past couple of days I’ve ruminated so much about it I wondered if I don’t need to go talk to someone again. I assume that acceptance means it doesn’t make me sad anymore? I mean, I went for a walk yesterday and was having arguments in my head where I tell him what an insensitive, selfish dolt he is, and I realized I have been doing that for 30 years! He’s the same guy he always was; a scared man who used to bully me, and now that he can’t do that, there’s little meaningful interaction. The main connected feelings come when I am supporting him in some way.
I saw this post and I thought immediately of this feeling stuck in a story that goes back to childhood. I want to be in the present but I hate the feeling of wishing I had a different parent, feeling ashamed at feeling that way, and fantasizing about what it would mean to have had a supportive, stable father figure. I don’t know if the wishing is just “being present” to what I feel right now or being stuck in some fantasy.
Magnolia
I can relate to some of what you are saying,
“My Dad is always clueless; forgets what you tell him or isn’t listening half the time”
My dad doesn’t know when my birthday is.
I went on a holiday recently to an interesting place when I tried to tell my dad about it he cut me off mid sentence with sarcasm and continued on with the only topic he seems to know himself.
Thinking about my dad is hard I had nothing to do with him for many many years yet in my head there was always a fantasy going on about how he would rescue me from the situation I was living in. That he would be the dad I always dreamed of.
The reality of situation when we made contact again was so different to my fantasy but I refused to acknowledge things because after all he is my dad.
I can see a pattern now in my stubborness in refusing to look at reality in my relationships with men. The fantasy element has always been there and it was always a rescue fantasy leading to happily ever after.
It has been hard to come to terms with that my dad is still not really interested in knowing me not properly anyway and to accept him as he is someone who chat with me once a month for half an hour or so about himself and his life but will feel free to direct criticism my way.
We live in different countries so visitng each other is not an option.
I think it is okay to be sad and grieve even for what we did not have in life.
Magnolia, I can relate to your comment. I too was singled out and almost continuously bullied and put-down by my father growing up, something that is now folklore in the family, and it still happens at times (if my father and I disagree about something, he continues to take it to the highest and most personal stakes). Maybe my father still has a bit more of that aggression in him than yours, because I think a lot of the tapering off is about their hormones changing, coming to terms with their own relevance/mortality, and, hopefully, some sort of self-reflection or benign resignation of sorts. In any case, I sometimes get this intense fear about the fact that I haven’t really known a truly, truly safe relationship. That comes up every now and then for me in and out of a relationship, and can make me feel quite hopeless at times, if I think about it too much. But, not so much anymore, I have to say. I guess I don’t really have a fantasy about my father any more. I am more and more thinking of my parents are older people who need my attention and care, rather than me asking much of them. It’s saddens me sometimes that I won’t have this moment of connection or reconciliation or even much simple friendship with my father, but I also just see him as a person, more and more, and not just that but an ageing man who is going to need me more and more. As I see him more like this, I start to be more generous in the good qualities I can see in him. It’s liberating, having this space.
I should add that I mean ‘safe relationship’ when growing up – since then, I have been lucky to have some wonderful relationships (boyfriends and friends generally) and my siblings are very loving, reliable, supportive people. These things have helped!
magnolia, tulipa-
so, i don’t know if this philosophy will help, but…
mindfulness also means being sufficiently compassionate with ourselves to let ourselves feel how we feel in the moment, whatever that is. there is no way to size the enormity of how painful and disappointing it is to be raised by parents who never really see us, value us, or acknowledge us properly. the fact that these parents are themselves flawed humans who are grappling ineffectively with their own demons and shortcomings is little comfort when we are trying to process the fact that we never got, and probably never will get, what we needed from them. that’s a lot of rage and pain that we can’t ignore. but we still need to expunge it as best we can so we can be whole.
this expunging takes a lot of time. it just does. and we don’t have to feel guilty or shameful about it. we do have to, or rather its a very good idea to, handle it in responsible ways, to prevent those feelings from making us act out and create situations that only exacerbate the problem, that carry on the pattern of low quality interaction. but coming to terms that our parents are likely to never be who we need them to be? that’s brutal. and we need to let ourselves grieve it so we can move on.
the grief does end, but only if you really grieve. so, my advice is to stop fighting it. you have to go through it to get to the other side. it does take a long time, but not forever. truly.
and you’re already doing so many, many, many things that will help you individuate and grow, to move past this grieving stage. so allow yourselves credit for those things, while you grieve. keep turning, more and more, to the good things, the light things, and gradually you will process the grief and it will fall away. the more compassion you give yourselves, the more compassion you’ll be able to give the parents who failed you. aim for that, but aim gradually.
just try to stop denying it. its natural to be royally pissed off about this. stuffing it doesn’t help.
@Tulipa and Elle: Yes, you get it. I do see my father as just a person and not one I have to get into fights with anymore. But I am not neutral about having to care increasingly for him in his old age, when I feel like so much of what was sideways about our relationship was him and my mother expecting that I should take care of him emotionally when I was younger. I feel like the expectation that I should care for him in old age makes sense and is the natural cycle IF the parent did actually take care of me in my youth. I still feel obligated and likely will take care of him but still feel resentful. Thanks for letting me know I’m not alone in this.
Elle, my sister struggles with the same self-absorption issues (as I do) but we’re both doing okay, my brother is as withdrawn and non-present as my dad. I look for reliability and warmth in my friends – and treasure it.
cc: Thank you for saying this. I wish I had realized long ago that he is just incapable of hearing me, instead of feeling like he was deliberately ignoring me, I might have started accepting my own feelings about it sooner.
I had many instances this visit where I realized how much of what I say to him in conversation is motivated by wanting to change him, change his opinion, get him to notice, etc. I realized how much boundary crossing in conversation and relationship I just took as natural, and okay, because the crossing I was doing never had any effect. Any healthy person/parent would have set limits with me.
I will keep turning to the light things. Thanks cc.
Hey again, Mags – you’re not alone in this either, in wishing that you’d recognised and accepted some of his limitations and (if I may), to some extent, toxicity as his stuff, deliberate or not.
What cc. said was beautiful and helpful, and probably meeting you more where you need to be. I think I am simply in a different stage of the whole thing, where I feel more distant from it, in a good way (letting go of things that aren’t serving me and those around me, making the best of our relationship in its simplest and least dramatic) and a possibly less-healthy way (tenaciously forging ahead on my own, or apparently on my own – as I said, have other sources of support).
Recently though, my father said to me, ‘I am just a person, you know’, seemingly out of nowhere, but was his way of saying ‘stop expecting me to be perfect’. I wanted to say (but didn’t, for many reasons), ‘well, why did you set yourself up as perfect, the fountain of all wisdom, knowledge and earthly judgement?!’ But, to some extent, he was asking for a reworking of the relationship too. A bit rich, sure, after all his tyranny, but he was trying to say, ‘Can I just be this normal person with normal expectations, normal surveillance, normal levels of decency and kindness?’ The last part of what you said made me think that your father might want this too. That doesn’t mean he should get it, necessarily, just that it might not be possible for him to do much from a position of lack of acceptance (which he would know – he would know, on some level, that you don’t accept him and that he was a bit sh*t).
Thank you for your comment cc very thought provoking
I thought after meeting my dad in person it knocked the fantasy element on the head but to some extent it was still there just not as dramatic as the rescue fantasy I had. It has only been quite recent I have even noticed this pattern of him going on about himself and not knowing me. Before I guess I was just happy he was phoning me rather like crumbs from an eum. Leaves me with lots to think about.
I haven’t reached the anger stage I don’t know if there is a point to anger I can’t change anything??
mags – hugs
tulipa-
what i’m saying is just feel how you feel. if you’re not angry, great (although that would never happen to me, haha!!). but if you are, don’t not feel it because you think its pointless. its NOT pointless. its your experience, its your life, its how you feel. the point is that you have every right to that.
not only that, but if you deny your experience, not to be scary, but i promise, it will come back to haunt you. because yes, it IS just like crumbs from an EUM. and to change our patterns we need to be …
mindful. so give yourself compassion for whatever you feel or don’t feel. don’t decide it doesn’t matter because you can’t change anything. because you CAN change something: you.
This post highlights something I definitely need to work on. I’m a HUGE daydreamer. I walk 5 miles a day and I live a lone which leave my a lot of time with my thoughts and I know I get carried away! My biggest downfall is especially with our relationships. I play out scenarios in my head which always sets me up for failure because I’m dissatisfied if things don’t go to ‘plan’ and I feel disheartened by it. I think it’s also how I end up feeling so involved in relationships, even when the other person is so half-hearted, because I struggle with the idea of giving up on this total dreamworld.
Hi, Natalie. I hope you’re enjoying newlywed bliss! 😉
Having been a relationship where my hyper-analytic self was plagued by constant worries about a future, I can well-appreciate your thoughts here.
On the other hand – and I see this as really the other side of the same self-blinding coin – I’ve also experienced a relationship where I steadfastly focused almost exclusively on the present.
In the former case, I was blinded by ill-based anxieties, to the point of not seeing the good in the present; in the latter, I was blind to the increasingly obvious truth that we didn’t have a future together.
A happy medium between the two – being aware of the now and some of its implications for the future – strikes me as the most mindful way to be in a relationship. Which I don’t think is very different from what you’re saying.
Oh, how I used to be the Queen of Over thinking. I’d mentally pick out China patterns with every first kiss.
Additionally, I always pick the Unavailables, assuring there would be no future.
Hot Mess, your table is ready.
I agree with most on here who say it is a balancing game. You cannot live 100% in the present in a relationship. Some thought has to be given to the future and to the past if the guy you are with has a negative past history of cheating or doing drugs or something like that. You also need to have a common goal for the future. If one wants commitment and marriage in the long run and the other doesn’t, then it won’t work out long term and you should cut your losses. You never know, they may come back to you at some point in the future when they are ready, but why waste time?
But, I do tend to fantasize and over analyze in relationships, and I always thought it was because I was soooo into the guy. But maybe it’s because I am bored. I am trying to re-train my brain and keep busy, but it is hard. And oddly enough, it is the only time I become obsessive about anything in my life. Otherwise I am pretty balanced and calm.
Marie, he is using you for his own narcissistix supply. What he is doing is cruel. Reeling you in with false promises and then dumping you whilst criticizing your bedroom skills? He’s only doing this to ensure he has you on tap when he fancies a shag, and ruining your confidence in the process. He is an emotionally abusive man. Read more of Natalie’s posts. It will click, I promise, if you open your heart to her advice. And if this jackass comes back begging, I hope you will have the confidence and self love not to give him the time of day. Xx
Like most of you that have commented on this post I have a degree in overthinking and analysing. I’m 37 and I think I’ve been like this since around the age of 16. I think its mainly to do with low self esteem, I was very popular at school but never felt as attractive as my friends and this stuck with me right up until my late 20s. I don’t always have low self esteem, in certain areas of my life I’m very confident and I actually believe that I have blossomed as I’ve got older (lol). However, when it comes to relationships I fall apart and operate with fear. The good thing is since meeting the disappearing AC I have addressed this issue and I’m actively dealing with it. I recognise where I go wrong (i,e not speaking my mind, holding back, giving in too easily) and I’m determined to fix it. I never thought I would say this but by him disappearing on me, it woke me up (after the initial shock followed by depression) and made me realise that I’m too much of a people pleaser that likes to fantasise and dream about being in love. When I met him I thought I hit the jackpot (not financially) but because he was so damn gorgeous, he future faked and made me feel good but really he isn’t that special! He’s a player that saw me coming and took advantage.
Ex
“If one wants commitment and marriage in the long run and the other doesn’t, then it won’t work out long term and you should cut your losses.”
I don’t read the post as contradicting that. If you are living in the present, and taking on board the information presenting itself to you, you WILL cut your losses. It’s the rabid fears and anxiety – he’s the last man on earth! I’m very vulnerable and can never get over breakups! I can’t do anything right! which keep us stuck. I don’t think Nat means at all that we should be completely carefree like Pollyanna on ecstasy, rather that we deal with what unfolds in front of us.
And -I know I’m being picky here and deliberately misrepresenting your point, but bear with me – who’s to say that the next man you’ll meet will be a former drug user who won’t ever get married.? He could just as well be a lovely man! But you already projected yourself into a bad situation and nothing has happened! If he is a lovely man we may never find out as we’re too busy excusing our way out of taking a risk.
I must respond to some of these comments as I’m having one of those moments where I feel rather confused!
The post is about not worrying about what ISN’T happening and not missing out on the present by trying to anticipate what’s next when now has barely unfolded. It says this very close to the beginning – am I missing something here?
It doesn’t say don’t think, it doesn’t say don’t think about the future – the post is about overthinking, ruminating, betting on potential and fantasising. If these are things that you think yield a healthy relationship, please knock yourself out. If this isn’t working for you, consider a different perspective.
How about worrying about what IS happening and doing something about it?
How about discovering reality so that you actually have a better indicator of what’s next? You are part of what’s next – if all you do is sit around thinking, next ain’t up to much.
Natalie:
“How about worrying about what IS happening and doing something about it?”
Yes, quite. That’s the main message I am taking from your post as something I should have woken up to if I’d known what was good for me; if I’d faced up to reality; if I hadn’t willfully ignored the information I was getting in the ‘here and now’; if I wasn’t betting on what I thought was his potential – cos the reality is that he had NO potential!
If I’d thought about the future *based on* the information I was getting in the present then I could not have failed to notice that there was NO future with that man – The present was actually telling me that (if only I’d listened and did something about it)
That, at least is my reading of the Nat’s post here and what I take from it.
Oh and Marie dear, the first place to start is by cutting ALL CONTACT with him. Facebook, texts, email, calls, the full monty.
He will invariably try to up his game to get you back but here it is imperative that you don’t respond at all. Not in sorrow, regret, even anger cos that is a red flag to a bull. You want to say something to him? Nat has great advice in writing the Unsent Letter. I advocate this. Even writing on paper what you’d usually text him will help you see that this relationship is a lame duck. All the best xx
If I had dealt with what was happening in the “now” and remained wholly in the present instead of focusing on what coulda, woulda, shoulda with that blighter of an EUM for ten bloody years I might be in a very different place now. Sometimes that makes me very sad, frustrated and makes me feel cheated and angry but I’m also glad to have at least come to terms with ending that relationshit – before another ten years flew past me! GREAT advice again, Natalie, for relationships, and for many aspects of life. Thanks so much for your work here – it’s so helpful in so many ways. And many congratulations on your wedding!
relationshit…..lol
“The sheer number of people I hear from who invest so much energy worrying and anticipating who actually aren’t that fussed about who they’re with, they just want the validation of being chosen, is scary.”
Yes that is me. I recently found myself down about a relationship that-while pleasant-did not have the emotional connection and passion and just…something that lacked. I waited and waited and WAITED. Then it was ended, mostly by me, but some by him and even though I wish him the best I feel so sad for not having a relationship, but the one I was in felt a bit boring too soon….I know that it is not all party central with emotions but when you stop wanting to have sex after the third month and you hang in there almost three more, it was obviously my fear; would I meet someone else just a great at my age?
sigh. I hate being afraid. I am not sorry that we broke up but it is so so SO hard to not worry about the future.
On a side note….after TWO years!-yes that is right-of debating whether or not to lighten my hair and chop it into a cute pixie I finally did it…and guess what; it came out fantastic and I love it! I was so scared there sitting in the chair watching them bleach out my hair, make it an orange before applying the new dye and then chopping it away in what seemed like fistfulls…but when it all was said and done it looks so great and really it was such a huge transformation that I feel like a new person. I wish I had not been so afraid for so long to do that…it was such a useless fear:)
Every time the ex EUM showed his true colours, I frantically looked the other way. Deep down I knew, but I didn’t want to see. I wanted the fantasy instead. I would obsess over his words, turning them over in my mind, searching for evidence that he cared, that he might love me. I was Sherlock Holmes, alright, but I was turning up false evidence to suit the fantasy I’d created. I sure didn’t want to see the truth that was staring me in the face – not until I had to, anyway.
Now that it’s over, I have to do what I wouldn’t do then. I have to see it for what it was. And move on.
Baggage reclaim has become for me like my AA meeting was for me early days in sobriety. I come here every day to read the posts and gain strenght and new resolve to not reengage with unavailable exes. Its so similar to my drinking which was filled with pain, doing the relationship thing over and over again, hoping for different results. I have acknowledged my own unavailability through reading the posts and recognise that I am attracted to men that resemble either my morther or my father, both of whom I had very different but dysfunctional relationships with, and set about to act like the little girl I was when I was a child. I can see the patterns so clearly. Im early days no contact, but learning to love and nurture myself. I felt incredibly lonely tonight, so for a treat bought myself a lovely big icecream. Just one little way to reward myself for trying to turn my life around.
I can relate to that!
NML how does this relate to people in committed long term relationships who are trying to get through a rough patch, survive small children, recover from infidelity, cope with really hard personal issues like depression, addiction or bipolar in a partner, or even just job loss or isolation from family? It’s often hard to relate your columns to us because it reads like “quit, you’re worth more” is your default advice. Sometimes even if you’re worth more than you’re getting you are better off to try to stick it out and change things than just write it off. So how do you stay mindful and how does it help I’d you are trying to survive the present (focus on the future is natural), or heal the past?
Mona, you site several complicated issues. Mostly we tune in here to learn from our mistakes, get insight into the ways we have made our decisions, build
self esteem and identify clearly our personal strengths and needs from group
support sharing similar experiences. NML gives us a jumping off point to get to
our “aha” moments. The things you may be coping with may be better addressed
one on one with professional counselling
I agree that for those kind of issues it can be hard to be mindfull but in fact it’s probably the time its MOST important. I’ve lived with pretty much all of those things – all related and mainly simultaneous – and the thing that got me through was simply taking each day as it came. The minute I tried to ”help” was when things got worse not better. My FDH had bipolar, no work, we had little kids. I simple had to keep calm and carry on. I had to trust that it would work itself out, and in the meantime ensure that I was looking after myself, and my children.
Ultimately in my case we separated however right thought this process I tried to surround myself with supportive people and continue with self care. it wasn’t easy but it kept me sane, I beleive.
I unfortunately have not ”quite” learned the lessons and somehow seem to find myself entangled with EU men time after time. I still can’t quite figure out how to move beyond this. I am clear in my intentions and they all – without exception – tell me how marvellous I am – until the reality that I am not going to be shag/shoulder kicks in, and then I am moved to friendzone.
I continue to look after myself, effectively ”date” myself, and follow the advice of forums like this, especially those timely reminders about living in the present. I call it living DELIBERATELY (ie weighing up and then moving forward with purpose) and with a view for SUSTAINABILITY. If it’s neither then i have to focus on letting it go.
MonaLisa,
This post can relate very much to the issues you are speaking about. I am a therapist, and I am someone who has dealt with/dealing with a rough patch, with a child, trust issues, accused of being a cheater, believing that my ex has (lied) withheld information for many years, someone who has reconciled, only to have him bail on me – again.
I do mindfulness on a daily basis. It is not about forgetting the issues, or not thinking about your pain. It’s about learning how to manage your negative thoughts, emotions and feelings in a way that makes you feel less stressed and anxious. it’s about sitting with the pain, breathing, meditating. It’s about accepting difficult emotions. I’m not saying that I do go off on tangents in my head, saying what I WISH I could really say to my ex. I’m saying that I recognize when it’s taking me away from being present, when it’s interfering with my daily functioning. I have learned to note the crap feelings I am having, even say what it is “I FEEL ANGRY!”, feel it, and move on. If I have to do it a hundred times in a minute, then I do it.
If you try to keep your relationship alive, for whatever reason, then it is your choice. I was fully ready to commit 100% of my life, love and time to reconcile, only to be told that I did “a lot of things wrong” and that I “didn’t even read the book”. Two ridiculously vague, and unfounded excuses for a man who – I now realize – cannot have a meaningful relationship because of his passive-aggressive behaviour, high expectations for everyone (but himself), and who will always look for someone to blame and control, in the most subtle, hurtful of ways. I highly recommend couples counselling – if you decide that working it out is the best for you, and your family. Just note that you may feel compelled to change, but your partner may not. All the best. It is a tough journey, but whatever you decide, is the right decision.
@Magnolia
Yep, I am native, a coupla kinds of European, and a wee bit Black. Your description of the guys that surround me are spot on, except you forgot their drug and/or alcohol issues. The younger generation is better but they’re busy having kids and are young enough to be my sons. This town is featured in the book “Born to Run”.
This is the biggest problem in my emotional life, so thank you for the post Natalie.
I’ve just come out of a whirlwind two-week thing with someone I met and instantly clicked with, something that had a lot of promise. He wasn’t perfect by any means but it had the emotional and intellectual connection, the passion and the same values. But a bit of a communication gap, and as soon as I let my fears about how good this could be start talking to me, he picked up on it and his fears about getting involved with someone insecure started to emerge. For the past few days I have been trying to figure out how I can repair things, or if it’s just another one lost to old fears, and most importantly, how I can put these to rest so I don’t make the same mistakes in future. This one was really something quite special, which goes to show the power that fears can have in eating away at us.
Lola,
Two weeks is all the guy wanted, or as long as you keep it light and fun and away from any serious talk. You move way too fast! Hope you didn’t sleep with him, but if you did, then he’d be on his way out if that’s all he wanted. Of course you had fears about how good this could be! They were valid fears, becasue you were moving wayyyyyyyy toooooo fasttttttttt!! Those are healthy fears of being with a player, or one that might only be interested in casual, which is probably the case. This guy doesn’t sound authentic, he doesn;t want real, he wants play and fun and casual. Expressing anything but the positive will turn him off becasue all he wants is fun without any real commitment! I’ve been there too many times and know this one well. A guy is always into you at the begiinning of these flings, but lose interest quickly when you want to move it into something more. It’s sad, but too often true.
and lola-
on what choe said, if it were really real, it wouldn’t have ended, he wouldn’t have cared that you had a moment of fear, if he sensed it he would have either given you space to figure it out or comforted you.
don’t assign his behavior to you – his behavior is his behavior, it shows you who he is, not who you are. if you want to work on you, great. but don’t make yourself the nexxus of other people’s reactions.
i agree with chloe – whirlwinds often aren’t great. most of the time hey blow away, taking the playa who blew in with them. which only reinforces fear. so, next time, maybe take more time to let the guy show you who he is.
Yes! Yes! Yes! This article, by far Natalie, is the best for me! I’ve loved your other ones, but this one really resonated with me. I’d been living in my relationship of six years feeding off of fantasies. What I knew he could be? What he’d promised to be? What I wanted the relationship to become? This was horrible because it failed to help me see that I was with Mr. FLIP FLOPPER! I’m telling you, if there is a flip flopper, he is it! I can’t say that I’m totally delivered because I will find myself fantasizing about my wasted years with this dude, but I have to tell you, my mind is moving forward. What he hasn’t done? What he failed to do is just that – UNDONE, NOT REAL! So, thank you because I really was worn of jumping from cloud to cloud searching for stability and finally falling through! Your article really was the loud thump that I needed! All thought in the present from now on – IT IS WHAT IT IS!
Simple Pleasures of course counseling is important to some of those issues but also to many other issues addressed here. Im not personally dealing with all of those, just one, but they are comparable examples of where things are more complicated than just “get out you deserve better”.
All I’m saying is that BR seldom (ever?) deals with when you are right to stay and work through the bad stuff. There’s very much a “get out if it’s got issues and move on” mentality. But that isn’t always best. Sometimes people stay with someone who treated them badly (reasons above) and work to make things better while knowing they can’t make the other person a healthier or better person without their consent.
Given the advice to “other women” why would a wife ever be right to stay after infidelity? I wish NML would address that. Why is the other woman “worth more” than a cheater but the wife isn’t? Why is it assumed its the man doing the chasing and the woman doing the dumping? What about women out there who try their hardest to win a married man and rejoice in their success? Are they “worth better”? I don’t think so. What about when the man wakes up hat she’s really like and dumps her but she won’t let go? She’s the one constantly texting and stalking. How can a wife balance self esteem, emotional availability, personal responsibility and yet stay?
I really like the site and have recommended it to other’s but I wish it didn’t make such assumptions about mistresses and wives and never deal with the decision to stay and work on it.
MonaLisa, this isn’t a mistresses site and I don’t talk about cheating very often – there’s over 1100 posts here. You are making your issues very personal as if I have some window into your life. I don’t know you. I don’t advocate stalking. I don’t advocate affairs. I don’t say any of the stuff you say that I say. Please stop saying that I do. I absolutely do not support the behaviour that you’re talking about. Send your address to my assistant via the contact page and I will post you a copy of my book and you will discover that you have judged me very wrong. I also suggest that you find a site that is more appropriate to you instead of degenerating what I do to “get out you deserve better.” Or see a therapist. If that’s what you’ve taken from this site, it is a shame, but it is your opinion and in that case, I’m of no use to you.
Instead of directing your frustration about your relationship or the other woman at me, please put your efforts where they will be more useful to you. I feel for you, I really do, but enough. Yes I made the mistake of being the other woman before but it doesn’t give you the right to make things up to suit your agenda.
For me BR is about empowering all of us (women or men, married or otherwise) who are experiencing difficulties in their relationships. I’m generalising and can only really speak for myself, but I think many of us reading BR are suffering and have already tried to work through the’ bad stuff’. We are dealing with the effects of being with an EU man or woman who does not want to deal with the bad stuff and is basically detracting from our lives. When I found this site I was feeling confused, exhausted and emotionally and physically drained. BR for me is much more than “get out you deserve better”. I’m new to the site, however, Natalie and others who post comments have already helped me understand the underlying dynamics of my dysfunctional relationship, provided me with solid advice on how to put much needed boundaries in place, how to re-build my self-esteem, how to get back in touch with my values, all of which can help me to make an informed decision of whether to get out or not, to put a stop to the pain and take back control of my life. This is a work in progress and I still have a long way to go, but armed with these tools I’m hopeful that I can make better and more informed decisions both now and in the future.
MonaLisa, you sound as if you are in pain and I also feel for you but BR isn’t about the other woman being “worth more than a cheater but the wife isn’t”. It’s about all of us, women or men who are not being, but want to be treated with love, care, trust and respect and yes, we do deserve it and so do you.
I adore this post for many reasons. One – I practice mindfulness on a daily basis. I go to a mindfulness/CBT therapist because I was have a great deal of difficulty coping with my ex-partner, dealing with “co-parenting” (I’m co-parenting, he’s doing whatever he feels like doing), and the stress of not having the family together over the holidays.
I recently came across your blog and noticed that a lot of the attitude you speak of, seems to come from a very mindful place. I was wondering if there were any posts on mindfulness in the blog – and then low and behold, you gave use this wonderful entry.
Mindfulness works, but it is a practice that people have to really commit to. I’m not saying I’m fine with my ex and his mind games, I’m just handling it a lot better than I would have a year ago. I’m also learning to sit with my feelings of rejection, discomfort, guilt, anger, in a way that allows me to feel these emotions and let them go. I have learned to let go.
Hi Natalie and everyone who has posted comments and yet to do so. This is another inspiring post. I began mindful practice in 2001 and this approach has carried me through many dark days/nights, blind alleys and thorn ditches. The practice in recent times has been more consistent because I needed peace and space in my head to think, plus I needed to breathe. The dramas I invited and struggled to free myself from almost consumed me. Mindful practise has helped to keep me honest, reflective, open, realistic and to accept the perspectives. I love to dream though now I know and accept the difference.
I only discovered this site a few months ago after trawling the net for inspiration and guidance. I have not had many of the experiences discussed here but nonetheless these honest accounts, shared wounds, healing balms and jokes keep me whole. I have used the advice offered and am seeing the fruits.
I have come to learn that it is the message you must listen to even if you don’t like the lesson being taught or who is teaching it. Mindful practice gives me many aha moments and connects me back to friends and family who really did try to steer me on the right path but ego, pride and being wrong and strong got the better of me. I am now learning to listen effectively and trust myself.
I accept there’s a lot more here than other woman posts but the advice to the other woman does seem to me to be “Nasty EU man, you deserve better”. What I’m asking for is when encouraging self esteem, healthy choices and emotional availability, where does that leave the wife? It seems to me the implication is she must leave or she’s a doormat. Being mindful for a betrayed woman seems to always lead to protecting herself by leaving. I don’t see anything leaving room for working through difficult times after such pain (or other issues I mentioned). If NML can tell me the tags I would appreciate it.
Hey Monalisa,
I think i know where you are. I was also one time married and then my ex-husband cheated on me and then eventhough i was more than willing to work our problems out (which i didn’t even know we had problems), he insisted in divorcing me. My advice from my experience is that you need to see and process the facts from what it means in your own life. Don’t see the other woman’s perspective. I don’t know your situation, but really both your husband and the other person are the ones the get into this entanglement. There was a time that i felt i hated the other woman. She knew my ex and i were married, and in my oppinion she didn’t care. Although I have never been the other woman, after being single most of my life and 5 years after my divorse and still stugling with singleness and loneliness, and with the help of this website, i can see how the other woman sometimes settle for crumbs. That is what they are getting. The woman that my husband cheated on me, they have been together 5 years on and off with a lot of infidelities and heartache, now they are “separated” but i can tell you for sure, if he was “bad” with me, nothing compared to how he was to her. The level of disrespect he has shown to her is amazing to me. Did she bring it to herself? yes but we all are human and have our shortcomings. Natalie’s blog is to help women and empower us to make wiser decitions.
If you don’t feel like leaving your husban and if you think things can be worked out, then you do it. It is worth trying. I have heard from marriages that had survived affairs. It is important too that he wants this marriage to work.
I wish you the best and pray for strenght and patiente.
monalisa-
let me give this a shot. and, at the outset, i am sorry that you’re in pain.
the boundaries and self-love that BR encourages also apply to you. if you read through the posts (and i suggest just typing something you’re feeling into the search box, hit enter, and just start reading, then type something else in the search box and read those) you’ll see that the ways in which you decide to stay or go, or to work on it or not work on it, are the same whether you are the wife, or the significant other, or the husband, or the girl/boyfriend, or the OW or OM. its all the same, and it all comes from self-love, self-care, having and enforcing one’s own boundaries, and knowing what you want.
it sounds like you are in a very hard, painful situation, and i’m sorry for that. i have been in that position. there are decisions you have to make. and please hear this the right way – the quality of these decisions will depend on how much you are acting from self-love and self-care and self-respect. of course, stay in your situation if that is the right decision for you. but you need to decide that first, and i’m not entirely from what you write that you are comfortable in that decision.
having said all this, i don’t know if BR is the right site/community for you and what you’re grappling with right now. certainly, you could use more support than just BR. but if you stay, use it for its intended purpose. you are trying to cope with very difficult things. only you can decide if they are things that you should not be coping with at all.
i wish you love and peace.
MonaLisa
Here’s the dilemma:
I’m not married.
I believe I deserve love, commitment and fidelity from a man. If I marry him, am I less deserving of those things because he made a promise? Does his promise mean more than his actions? Can a promise be better than the person who made it?
There are websites that support wronged parties looking to stay. You could try this one:
Also consider an opposing view:
For what it’s worth, I believe that if you dont’ have trust you have nothing.
way to go gracey grace. that beyondaffairs website is incredible. and thank goodness it exists for those who need it, it looks like an unbelievably invaluable resource. brava.
Monalisa- they all apply. You might try “Love Must Be Tough” by Dr James Dobson. Its for spouses who want the marriage to work out after an affair. But please stay in reality, sweetie. And do what’s best for your babies, if there are children.
Spot on – you don’t create a future with someone by fretting about the future, but by focusing on the present.