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This week’s episode of The Baggage Reclaim Sessions marks the beginning of a series of episodes that I’ll be doing on the subject of friendship. There will be several episodes between now and the end of the year, and my aim is for it to be an in-depth, compassionate exploration into friendship so that you:
- Become more aware of what friendship means to you including recognising any unhealthy patterns.
- Appreciate and nourish the good, loving friendships in your life.
- Make shifts in dynamics that are revealing themselves to be unworkable.
Some nuggets from the episode:
- Family puts us in the position of engaging with some people who we potentially wouldn’t under other circumstances. Friends are the family we would choose for ourselves… but we might be choosing friendships that recreate the very dynamics we’re trying to escape.
- When we consider what the terms ‘friend’ and ‘friendship’ mean, it offers clues about why issues can arise.
The friendship might not be mutual, it might lack consistent mutual affection, and we might have clashing expectations of our friendships or be in them for the wrong reasons.
- A prime example of where friendship means different things to different people is when it comes to social media. So many people experience anxiety and resentment due to feeling neglected by someone they’ve connected with online. We might be somebody who doesn’t add someone as a friend on Facebook unless we consider them to be a friend. This creates certain expectations. They might be someone who adds people on Facebook within minutes of chatting!
- It’s okay to be different, to have differences, to get pissed off or irritated at times with our friends, but if tension defines the consistent state of a friendship, it’s a code red alert that something is very wrong. Keep in mind, also, that it’s so easy for us to miss the wood for the trees. We spend our time analysing the hell out of the person or trying to fix them instead of acknowledging that how we’re thinking, feeling and behaving is the clue to where we need to make a change.
- Sometimes we’re so busy focusing on our picture of things and how we’re being a ‘good friend’ in our role within the friendship that we’re not present to the friendship. By playing a role, we create expectations and obligations about what we think we should be getting back — and this guarantees tension and resentment.
- Overgiving, neglect and resentment are major signs that friendship is not mutual.
- Some friendships are based on a pattern of being friends with a bully. We’re trying to right the wrongs of the past or hang out with bullies to avoid experiencing harsher consequences by being on the outside. This isn’t a friendship!
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Some of us behave in our friendships like we would in a bad marriage. “You know you both can’t stand it, but you’re just going to continue on anyway.”
- For those of us where tension, boundary issues, unmet needs, trauma, friction were part of our childhood, where these were a representation of what family meant to us, that is what a lot of people’s friendships are about.
- If we’re in a friendship for the wrong reason(s), it will become increasingly painful to remain in it for those reasons.
- We people-please in unhealthy friendships to show them how to behave, to create a tipping point where they will finally step up and make things mutual by reciprocating.
- Compassionately investigate the nature of your friendships.
- Sit down in a quiet space for a few moments. Take a few deep breaths, and then mentally run through your close friendships. How do you feel?
- Or, make a list of your friends. Go through the list one by one. Which people energise you and which friendships are draining?
- Do you like who you are in your friendships?
- Do you feel as if you’re a better friend than they are to you, and if so, why?
- Do you have a role that you play in your friendships? Examples: piggy in the middle, the rescuer, the life coach, the odd one out, queen bee, the centre of attention, the one in the background. Where and why did you learn to play this role? What do you get out of playing it? How does this role make you feel? In order for you to play your role, who do they have to be? So, what’s their role?
- Who were you when these friendships were formed? Are there some friendships that haven’t grown with you?
- Finish the sentences:
- A good friend….
- Friends should…
- These are your rules about friendship. Where are your rules creating tension, resentment and imbalances? How do your rules make you feel?
Links mentioned
- Episode about who’s in your people-pleasing entourage?
- Karpman drama triangle
- Episode about respecting your emotional, mental, physical and spiritual bandwidth
- Episode where I talked about feeling low
- Healthy connections regulate you; unhealthy ones destabilise you.
Next stop
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Listener questions can be emailed to podcast AT baggagereclaim DOT com and if there’s a topic you’d love me to talk about, let me know!
Nat xxx
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After a long struggle to leave and finally cease all contact with a narcissist ex, a big part of the healing process was getting therapy to discover why I was a shit magnet for narcissists, users and cheaters, then rooting out and addressing a pretty serious case of recurring PTSD.
Part of the treatment included forming core values and some fairly simple but reasonable boundaries. Then I weeded out the more aggregious users, losers and clowns who spit on my boundaries and laughed at my efforts to heal.
Enforcing my boundaries was hard at first, because people pleasing was a major part of dealing with my much older siblings and negligent parents as a child.
After a year or so of being the world’s tightest ass about enforcing my boundaries, I discovered previously unrecognized self respect, self esteem and resilience.
Eventually, I had weeded out the last round of rats, including my older sister whose treatment of me from toddlerhood had toggled between kind and generous to blackmailing me, stealing my toys, then years later sleeping with my partner and trying to poach my friends whose status in life was suitably impressive to her social climbing aims.
This summer I celebrated four years of no contact with the witch. Unfortunately, she is an accomplished liar and character assassin (lawyer), and she managed to convince my older brother, whom I had gotten close to after dumping the sister) that I was the villain, after she’d moved to the same small town where he lives and bought a boat he’s always dreamed of, and asked him if she could store it at his lakeside home (and saying he could use it whenever he wished).
Suddenly, I was without family.
Thank God I had developed by then strong enough boundaries that I enforced rigorously, because when I realized I was all alone, I saw that I loved spending time with myself. I had many creative pursuits, I was never bored, and I had pared down my friends to a few people I trusted and loved, who reciprocated.
I used to think self love meant conceit, so the concept skeeved me out.
Now I know self love means treating myself kindly, taking care of my health, journaling and practicing daily gratitude.
The narcissist who launched all this is now a tiny speck in the past, and I have no interest in any kind of contact in the present or future, period. It ended when I stopped participating and offered no excuses for it.
Now I am happy and easy going around others unless they cross a known boundary. I’m not a baseball game, so I am under no obligation to give three strikes.
Thanks for all the help, coach.
😀
Karen,
I have a younger sister who I wouldn’t have as a friend given the choice. She was always jealous of me even the two years I had with my parents before she was born. At school she homed in on any boys she fancied who might have been interested in me to get one over. We don’t have anything in common. My sister is a control freak according to her own children, selfish and attention seeking. As children it always had to be about her and she often put me down. I don’t have anything to do with her and am glad as she was am emotional vampire any conversations were a moan from her about trivia and I was dealing with life changing events like divorce and health. Sometimes we have to flush these people from our lives and are better for it.
It sounds like your sister is still in child mode, even with her own children. For some reason, she’s never felt settled and seems to think you’ve stolen something from her. This is ironic given that she’s not even the first child!
It sounds like your brother is inadvertently (or possibly consciously) in the flying monkey role. He thrives on the tension between you sisters and feels needed by whichever sister is coming to him after the fallout.
Stayed friends with someone for much longer than I should have (despite what my gut was telling me) because I was afraid of what she would do if I ended the friendship.
She told me at the very beginning how she did others when they stopped being friends with her and the antics that occurred during the friendship (that I would sometimes participate in because I was afraid in saying no) to people who stopped being friends or contacting her.
The day came to end things when she saw on Facebook that I was in the same area as her with my other friends and didn’t tell her – who didn’t like her nor did my family so I didn’t include her with either group anymore.
I got long enraged texts when I said it’s best to end things as we weren’t working well as friends anymore. She thought it was about money or me feeling that I was better than her and ensured her it wasn’t. I was also diagnosed with something chronic and trying to deal with that and this relationship was adding more terrible stress.
There many were other factors that led up to this- one situation I told her about a day after it happened led to a long enraged novel long text, letting me know to remember she doesn’t owe me or anyone anything ever. That hurt deeply.
Still, over a year later I receive long texts from her about her family problems, why aren’t we talking still and other things that she says to trigger a response (questionable things). I didn’t know these were being sent until I went into my stock app on my phone and saw all of these texts that I never responded to.
I thought it was quite clear that things were done and she agreed last summer. We both wished other luck. But stuff is still being sent. I have not responded and don’t plan to. I’m currently (and finally!) talking to a therapist to work on weaker areas of my life and recognize my strengths.
Thank you for you your blog and podcasts. I have been reading it for years.
Wow. This is a deeply unpleasant situation, and I’m sorry that you’re going through this.
The truth is, this wasn’t a friendship. You stuck it out because you were afraid that she would turn on you. You basically hung out with the bully and went along with her to protect yourself, only now it has blown up and no doubt there’s a part of you wishing that you had said no to a friendship with her and trusted what you felt as a sign that a friendship was a bad idea.
If this is taking place in the U.K., it would fall under harassment as you can’t send more than two unwanted communications, and it’s quite clear that you don’t want to hear from her.
This is one of those situations where you’re going to need to sever contact clearly, firmly but gracefully. She is not someone who is interested in you breaking down what has gone wrong, and in actual fact she’s hellbent on being the victim. Right now, she’s gone from perpetrator/aggressor to victim and you’ve now been given the role of perpetrator/aggressor. Use therapy as an opportunity to understand what happened in the past that would have made pursuing this friendship a viable option. If you can recognise who that person is from your past, you will be able to see what this person is here to show you so that you can heal and move forward.
I can relate to what others have commented before me. After leaving a highly emotionally toxic and dare I say covertly abusive relationship I found myself with no friends left. Blaming myself and the gaslighting I reached out to who had been my here closest friends, explained as best as I could why I distanced myself and apologised profusely, stated where I was and what I needed to be focused on to live healthier, and expressed how not ok I was at the time. Tried to reach out to talk, to make and, to just have social interaction outside of replaying the horrible memories of the now ex and I previous 10 months of hell of trying to get him to leave and know what I got? Crickets. One friend unwell herself has cut ties with all of us, for me it was when I asked if ok after she forgot my birthday 10+ yrs into the friendship and having made plans three times. The other two I still somewhat talk to but it’s difficult. The one is a flake in the most excessive ways, always over promising then ditching me for the other friend who was beyond chilly about the situation i’d left and still holds old grudges against me from over 4+ yrs ago now. We’ve all had our breaking points and time apart after I would confront them on noticed tendencies that made me question their investment into our friendship based on always expecting more effort and flexibility from me than ever was returned. The flake and I didn’t talk for half a yr after confronting her on her having me change vacation time booked off so we could go on a day trip when she visited home not once but twice then to ditch those plans without being at all apologetic. The other one needs to be a saviour and I got tired of it. We had lived together too and she still is bitter about a time I didn’t want to hear about her soap opera show after a long day and thinks I blame wanting my own time and space and a need to regulate my own cptsd and depression through boundaries as an excuse to be selfish and uncaring towards her. They are all older than me by 5-7 yrs. In a small town there is little opportunity to make new friends and or know people who aren’t friends with them already. Every time I reach out I am forgotten about or plans always fall through or they are busy etc. Like to the point that I see them maybe once per year or twice despite living ten minutes away or less by car from the one. Complicating reconciliation is her partner hating me and not at all being open to doing everything possible to be an obstacle in our friendship. So many hurt feelings over time, I am not sure the one understands how mutual that is or is able to stop keeping score for over a decade now. The flake barely makes an effort longer than once or twice. I have tried many times but refuse to keep on longer than a few months if not reciprocated. It’s all a big mess and has made recovering from the ex relationship so difficult with so many setbacks over the last 1.5 yrs from it all. I’m at my last straw. My friendship makeover has failed with repeatedly being showing that despite saying that something has been worked out and an agreement to both try again finding that just lipservice. Can’t make over something that isn’t there to work with since they disappear into oblivion. Wish I never moved to this place from a major city to be close to them I’ve never been his lonely before in my life and my mental health has taken a hit not to mention self confidence and motivation. I know I take a role in this and am so trying to not be in my own way but at what point do I say it’s not me being the “crazy one” but actually that I’m dealing with half assed selfish people.
Jolene, I don’t have friends so you aren’t alone. I am quite happy as with my health problems I have come to recognise having a social life would put me under too much pressure. You need to just get out of the situation now. I had a friend who ghosted me over time when I became ill and it hurt but I realised that is how she is plus very EU and selfish to boot. I should have called this woman on her ghosting but was ill and vulnerable. In the end I wrote to her and told her that she’d treated me badly and that there was nothing left in the friendship and there would be no further contact.
You have done this then gone back on what you said so for others it is cry wolf to them. I suggest you firm up your boundaries and look to expand your life beyond the small town you live in if you can. Maybe there is a group that you can join in the next town. Firm up your boundaries and stick to them as you are in the later, rinse and repeat cycle of self destruction taking crumbs and nothing else.
I don’t think that this is about you being the “crazy one” or in fact anyone being that. I think if you focus on this, it will stop you from seeing the wood for the trees. This friendship, even if it’s had its good times, is toxic. None of you are benefiting from it and the friendship reflects a time when you were all less self-aware and less mature. That’s not to say that they’ve all grown, but what has become clear is that they cannot meet *your* needs. There’s a lot of drama going on here, and considering the relationship that you’ve come out of, you would be better of taking time out to take care of you and looking to create new connections that don’t have this messy history. No, it’s not ‘easy’, but it’s a damn sight less painful than trying to fastrack to a friendship that you didn’t have with these people off the back of feeling displaced after the end of your relationship. If they are “half-assed selfish people”, it’s how they’ve always been. All you can do here is own your side of the street. In the past, you fit into this dynamic, and now you don’t. And the truth is, you were willing to maybe push aside underlying concerns about these people if it meant that you didn’t have to start afresh and could sort of ‘slot back in’. That’s not the path. I really feel for you because connecting with people who know you, even if maybe they’re not the best people to do it with, seems like a balm to your lonely sole. But you will feel worse. Join a couple of groups locally and no, you won’t have an instant best friend, but actually, you will be better off than you currently are. It’s time to start afresh.
Thanks for this Nat. It’s a while since I listened to your first podcast and you’re sounding like a pro! I’d like if you could explore how to make friends in middle age. I feel we should never stop making friends – to compensate for the ones that fall by the wayside – but it’s hard to know where to start.
It does seem harder as you get older, especially as there’s the whole texting/social networks thing that can make it difficult to gauge what’s going on. Great topic, Elle, and I’ll definitely cover it.
Jolene,
I once moved to be closer to some friends. When i was back it was not mutual and i cared alot more than them. I had to let them go and it was hard because i just wanted mutual but if that is not happening you have to back up. Well it was very hard and i felt alone but over time i met new people and gave them time to unfold so i didnt over invest but rather give and take on both sides and paid attention to what people were showing me rather than just jumping in. While i didnt like having to be in the situation to let go of some people i geniunely cared about. I believe i was still supposed to move back so i could learn how to let go rather than run away or settle. Your experience of having moved back may just be for you to learn to do somethings you couldnt do in the past in order to take care of you. I wish you the best.
Someone once told me that if someone in meant to be in your life the universe will make it happen. If it doesn’t happen then it was life teaching you something you needed to know. I can honestly say having applied this to situations I have found myself in it is true. Yes we feel hurt, anger and sadness if something doesn’t work out as we hoped. But….. in the long run we are often better off as things do or don’t happen for a reason. With men I can say very lucky escapes.
“Your experience of having moved back may just be for you to learn to do somethings you couldnt do in the past in order to take care of you. I wish you the best.” Well said, HappyAgain.
I am so glad that you started talking about friendship. I have had difficulty making good friendships since we relocated to a new area. I have not always been as discerning about suitable friendships as I should have been. As a result I have ended up with relationships that lack mutuality and friendships where the other person is trying to dominate me and remake me into their image. I have been also in one friendship where I have felt like a prop in their busy social lives. Another friendship where the other person makes all the decisions about what restaurant we go to and what concert we attend and never wants to do anything I suggest. Then another person tried to take me on as a “project” and to give me a life makeover. I had never complained about my life or expressed a desire for change. Nor had I asked for any advice or help. I just wanted to be with someone who wanted to do fun things and just enjoy life. But she kept going on and on about what she thought I should do and where she thought I should go. I shut that person down after a couple of interactions. I simply want a friendship where we can go do things together that are fun and we take turns suggesting activities, like shopping or movies or concerts, or just going out for coffee and talking. I also like a conversation where we both spend equal time talking and listening. Not a person who monopolizes the conversation and never listens. Is that asking too much? Why is it so hard to find?
No, it’s not asking too much, Victoria. I think that having shut it down quickly in the last interaction is the sign of a shift. For some reason, you’ve been in a passive role in your friendships even if it wasn’t what you consciously intended. You’re highly likely to connect with someone who is passive aggressive or aggressive (and you’ll mistake it for assertiveness). It’s possible that there are qualities that you are drawn to that are a theme with these friendships. Look for what the commonalities are with these friendships (how you met, who befriended who, what drew you to them, what got on your nerves etc) and see what intel you can gather. Something in there has been a blind spot that influenced you being in unfulfilling friendships. And “discerning” is the key word and that will mean taking your time but also ensuring that you are being yourself. My daughter started secondary school recently and is meeting lots of new people. Sometimes when you’re somewhere new, you latch on to people who seem interesting, but it’s wise to take a bit of time so that you get into the friendship for good reasons rather than unwitting desperation.
Thank you very much Natalie for your insight. It’s highly appreciated.
This resonates with me completely. Just lately I have been questioning my relationships with friends and families. I am 53 years old and when I was 19 I went out with Jay since breaking up before my 21st birthday we managed over the years to maintain a friendship. During my relationships with other men they questioned how and why are we friends. It was hard for them to believe we could only be friends. I always considered Jay to be my go to friend especially when I had relationship troubles. Somehow he always knew how to say the right things and recognised my worth. He’s single and so am I! He broke up with his ex about 2 years ago same time I broke up with my ex totally unrelated. He’s struggling either the break up as she’s getting married and he wanted to be a hands on dAd to their 4 year old son. Duding the past few months he declared he had feelings for me. Well I never i was blown awY as I didn’t feel the same he managed to convince me he was ready for a relationship and we already knew each other and we get on etc. Somehow I agreed but wasn’t completely sold on the idea. I respected Jay and our friendship so I agreed to try. Very soon into our union something changed not only did I see he was self centred everything was about him. How on earth did I miss that over the years of friendship….also his perspective on life and people were not in tune with mines. 2 months o. He appeared distant in communication and I was beginning to feel something may be wron, something had changed but we had a friendship of over 30 years this man knew my back story in relationships surely he would talk to me and show me some consideration. In the meantime my default setting reared it’s ugly head your not good enough, why would he want you…..I hadn’t visited that setting in a long time. I felt it and heard my intuition this time I was not prepared to let my self talk dominate I was going to address it and free myself. When I spoke to Jay first he said he was going to talk to me, then he said because our relationship had changed he couldn’t. He was demonstrating behaviour I deemed unfriend worthy. By this stage I knew he could no longer be my go to friend and told him so. His response was his feelings had resurfaced for his ex, that wasn’t a big problem per say it was when he said I was over thinking things, not to take it personal and he’s not marginalising me…. he even went onto say because we didn’t live together what has happened wasn’t bad.
Your podcast 106 is a ringing endorsement to me I did the right thing. He is no longer my go to friend and I have ceased all contact. If/when I see him around I will say hello and smile that at 53 years old I am learning to value my self and my intuition. This friendship has shown me without holding onto some of my people pleasing anything for a friend, they don’t mean it like that excuses it’s not a friendship I can count on to safe guard my emotional well being