At what point do we say, “Enough”? It needs to be at the point where we’re feeling so desperate to keep someone in our life that we’re willing to let go of everything that needs to matter to us – our sense of self, our values, and most certainly, our boundaries and standards. It pains me when readers tell me harrowing stories of how they’re near begging somebody who doesn’t treat them with love, care, trust and respect, to come back or stay. They’d rather have some crumbs rather than no crumbs because the relationship has robbed them of the strength to leave. I’ve often threatened to show up at their homes by coming through their roof in an orange jumpsuit, intervention style. I may make this a reality the way some of you are going!
That’s why I made this video, Set The Standard. We cannot accept substandard treatment, least of all from ourselves. Watch the video, or you can listen to the audio, or read the transcript below.
It’s vital that we set the standard for how we are treated. This doesn’t mean that we take responsibility for other people’s feelings and behaviour but what it does mean is that we have to recognise that if we do not treat and regard ourselves with love, care, trust and respect, we are putting out the wrong message. We are sending out a message to anybody that is around us that, Hey, this is the standard that I have set for myself. It is OK for you to treat me similarly or worse.
When you are able to be there for you; when you are willing to step up and take care of you, to have your own back, to set the standard of how you will to be treated, you will not accept less from anybody else than what you can already do for you. This stops you from being in unhealthy relationships. This allows you to say, “Hey, I don’t accept that. I’m not OK with what you’ve just said/done”, because you know how you want to feel and how you want to continue to feel.
If somebody is mistreating you and they are at best, taking advantage and at worst, abusing you, if you then turn around and say, “I take the blame for your behaviour” or “That’s OK, I’m not going to create any consequences for your behaviour”, or “I love you, I love you, I love you…. Come back to me… I can’t bear to be without you…”, and this is after they have walked all over you and treated you worse than a doormat, that is sending out the wrong message and it’s not one that you want to continue to put out.
What you’re basically saying is, “I don’t love me. I don’t care about me. I don’t trust me. I don’t respect me”. It’s saying, “I know that you don’t either but I’d rather accept some crumbs rather than no crumbs”. It’s saying, “I don’t feel that I have to set any consequences for your actions…. I’m saying that I don’t think that I can do without you… yeah… I don’t feel that I can do without you who actually, isn’t really there for me at all”.
Don’t fall into the trap of believing that it’s better for somebody to be there in a crappy capacity rather than to not be there at all. And in the same way: it’s not better for somebody to be there but emotionally absent rather than being gone all together, because all of these things will kill your soul, they will kill your spirit and they will kill the very essence of you.
They will distort your view of you and they will distort your view of what a healthy, loving relationship should look like. You don’t need to be out there seeking perfection but what you do need to seek is to be with people who are like-minded. If your idea of like-minded folk is somebody who treats you less than something they just stepped on, something is very, very wrong.
The answer isn’t to try to change them. The answer isn’t to try to please them even more. The answer isn’t to keep editing and shaving you down in the hopes that one of these things will spark them into being a better person in a better relationship. The answer is to step right back and to invest all of your energy into evaluating and working on why you are accepting less than what you deserve even from yourself – and that is to evaluate why you don’t care about you, why you don’t even like you, why you don’t respect you, why you don’t trust you. What is it that is in your head and in your past that is telling you that THIS – this sh*tty, horrible relationship, that this horrible way of being – is the best that you can do?
Once you are able to look at what it is that you associate with feeling bad about you as well as what is it that you associate with love, you can then work on and heal those things from your past so that you are not making decisions now based on emotional reasons attached to the past that actually bear no real relation to anything that you are looking to do now and going forward.
If you are doing things because you felt abandoned by a parent or caregiver in the past or you felt rejected, or you are carrying all sorts of unhealthy beliefs about you, what you’re doing right now is responding to those emotional reasons that are not necessarily based on fact. Now, of course, we don’t always do things for logical reasons but once we recognise that we are doing things for emotional reasons that are not serving us right now, we can start to address the source of those emotional reasons and step in and be conscious, aware and present, so that we can take care of ourselves in a better way.
We cannot continue to accept less than what we deserve from others and we absolutely cannot continue to set a poor standard for treatment. We can not basically say, “This is the standard that I’m setting for myself and you can do whatever the hell you like”.
NO.
You must set the standard for treatment. You want to be treated with love, care, trust and respect? Treat yourself with love, care, trust and respect, not because you’re thinking, Well if I do this then I can force other people to do that, but because once you start to treat you with love, care, trust and respect, not only will you not accept less than what you can already do for yourself but you will also align you with entirely different people and situations. You will find that you come from a place of love as opposed to coming from a place of crushing you, or of trying to always go around and please and serve others. You will do things from a place of healthy desire as opposed to, Please! This is my need! I want you to be my salvation. That cannot be the way that you live your life.
The way that you feel right now is not going to be the way that you always feel so don’t make how you feel or see things right now into a permanent statement of your future. If it feels as if this person is the sole source of your happiness and at the same time, they’re the source of your misery, you can see where that person has become very skewed in your head and has become the thing that you are dependent on for your sense of self, for your emotions, for any sense of value here on earth, but that doesn’t have to continue.
Yes – it will take time. Yes – it will take work. Yes – it will take some reflection. Yes – it will take a bit of time for you to face up to your part in things. Not a part where you are taking responsibility for other people’s feelings and behaviour but recognising where you are not treating and regarding you in the best way that you can. Love you first. Take care of you. When you do these things, a whole other world is going to open up for you. Believe.
Your thoughts?
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This is going to be my final goodbye letter to my largely absent bf. Really. He can not read it, he can delete it, but it’ll feel good to tell him that I am no going to be played anymore. Thank you, Natalie.
Good luck Ariel. If he’s anything like my ex, he won’t even respond. I can’t tell you how many well thought out, carefully orchestrated emails I’ve sent and the only response I ever got was a text with a sad face. PLEASE! Send it and then know you’ve done everything you could. If there’s one thing I hope I can help others do it’s to not waste their valuable time on these people who are not worth any of it….xoxo
Thank you Nat. I just had a lightbulb moment. I’ve been in one relationship or another my entire adult life (and most of my teen years too). At almost 41, I have been single just 4 months, and while I have been content to believe that I’m missing my ex-EUM because he’s the last partner I had, I now realize I’m just lonely and he’s simply the most recent one to miss.(!!!) I’m just lonely. Lonely because I’ve always had attention from whatever man is in my life at the time (sometimes more than one at once!). Even though I didn’t believe it, I told the ex-EUM ‘While I love you, I love myself more and I’m not getting absolutely anything out of this relationship,’ when I broke up with him in February. I was saying these things out of hope that he’d stop me, which he didn’t, and have since been engrossed in a messed up addiction of text/flirt/hope for 4 months, waiting for him to see the error of his ways (HA!). Now I’m committed to doing NC and I finally realize IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM. I was sick of him after a month and knew I would never get what I need from him and didn’t even like him anymore, but there’s always been this f*cked up image I’ve held of myself that having a partner = worthiness. Here I am, 40 years old, petrified because I’ve BEEN WITHOUT A PARTNER FOR ALL OF 4 MONTHS. This all goes back to abandonment issues from unresolved childhood abuse, being raised by alcoholics and a father who wasn’t there, and who still isn’t, due to the drinking and erratic behavior of undiagnosed/undtreated mental illness. The inner child is afraid, and it’s up to the grown up me to parent the little girl inside and let her know I’m here, I love her, and I’m going to take care of her. She can trust me. I am enough.
d,
Your story is MY story. THANK YOU.
WE Are enough! WE ARE ENOUGH!
Thank YOU Starr. Too often I feel like no one gets it. I’ve been reading The Journey from Abandonment to Healing: Surviving Through and Recovering by Susan Anderson and it’s been eye opening and also a little disheartening. I highly recommend it.
Here I thought I had come so far but it appears I’m just scratching the surface of understanding why and where I am where I am. For some of us, we just simply cannot trust our instincts. We mistake feelings of fear and excitement for love. I don’t know about you, but the ‘good’ guys have always been too boring for me. I’m considering hypnotherapy at this point, no joke!
“there’s always been this f*cked up image I’ve held of myself that having a partner = worthiness”
WELL SAID!! This is most definitely something I picked up from my mother. Why is it that we feel so much worthier when we’re with someone? Now…does anyone know how to make the shift from understanding that intellectually (i.e. that we do not need to be in a relationship to be worthy or have worth) to feeling it as a truth emotionally?
Hi BermieGirl. I don’t know. I’m 40 years old and still just scratching the surface. I think reading and finding a good therapist help. I’m reading The Journey from Abandonment to Healing: Surviving Through and Recovering by Susan Anderson and I think I’m finally understanding. A blurb from what I read last night:
“Some of us are only attracted to people who are emotionally unavailable. Fear is almost always at the heart of this pattern. By chasing after emotionally unavailable targets, we avoid the risk of intimacy altogether…Traumatic experiences from your past have created automatic responses to signs of emotional danger. Your past may have conditioned you to associate insecurity with attraction. The adrenaline rush created by the fear of abandonment has become confused with the yearning of romantic love. You can no longer differentiate between love and emotional hunger.”
Just…whoa.
WHOA!!!!!!!! 🙁
Hit the nail on the head.
going to find that bool stat.
The most important part is now you are healing, you are taking time to find out how the familiar patterns that are haunting you in present, had their origins in past. It does get better but you may have to go all the way through your pain and sit with those feelings, despite the discomfort. And stick with it. You will be surprised at how better and clear-headed you feel after you have been through the process. Congratulations at making you a top priority! You are so worth it.
Bermiegirl – I looked at famous women and men now and in history who had achieved great things in their lives but were single and had no children – then people I know in the community – it was quite a hunt but I stopped when I was satisfied and had had enough to realise I wasn’t the only single person in the world with ambition to enjoy and forfill my life and helped me redress the idea that I must be dull, boring and faulty to be alone and left on the shelf. In fact it is the other way around really.
I also make sure I go out and have fun and do everything I want whether I am in a relationship or not – that includes going to pubs, great restaurants for meals, cinema, theatre, festivals, gigs, a grand opera or comedy etc…. My thought is – I almost died – I only get one life – as me – lets not waste it.
In restaurants I pretend to myself, if nervous, that I am away from home working and of course need to eat/get entertainment so why not on my own in a great restaurant? I get there fairly early for the first sitting so its not too loud/ busy and there are sometimes others waiting on their own for others to meet them, I make sure I am as assertive for help, as I need to be, straight away, no wimping about, and I always make sure I get the receipt at the end.
Its about finding a balance that works for you – and so if being told that ‘you being single must suck’ are the only words you hear – then rightfully you need to seek another view – or you will end up feeling there is something wrong with who you are and where you are in your life right now – when in reality there is nothing wrong with being single or different to others who choose to be in a couple – currently. In fact ironically the people who have reminded me most – in a negative way – were all interestingly in what was presented to me regularly as pretty dodgy relationships themselves! So I’m not so sure their ‘kind’ reminder of me being ‘still single’ and implying how dreadful it was/must be – was really meant for me – more like a reminder for themselves to feel lucky about where they are in their poor relationships/ego boosting themselves.
Watch what happens if you are start doing your equivalent, of my balloon trips and canoeing holiday, making your own art, listening to music and going out regularly having a fulfilling social life every other night practically, mixing in groups of creative fun intelligent adults and having lots to talk about !! – more than pr at least equally to, the people who make you feel bad for being single – either directly or ambiguously – they may have a problem with it and attempt to put you down for it – but remember the truth that exists WITHOUT their helpful (not) imput.
We might be on a shelf but we are all the better…for hand gliding off, practising yoga or kick boxing, twidling our thumbs better or baking a cake with your left toe – the point is NOW you can do what ever takes your fancy!! – their is NOTHING holding you back apart from sponging up negative views of who you apparently are meant to be and feel – as defined by people who aren’t walking in your shoes and have no ability ever to do so – compassionately…. dump the compassion haters and join the lovers.
The hardest thing I find is stopping trying to want friends to do things with me they clearly can’t do/won’t do – due to family/relationship commitments, not appropriate or simply not wanting to etc… I often find myself trying to get on and doing things for people simply so they’ll ask me to be in their gang but I have found that when I do that I never ever succeed and its usually a disastrous experience for all.
I find doing things on my own brings more like situation type people to me like a magnet. I just have to keep being brave to keep going out there as an individual – which as I said is pretty hard but is getting easier the more I do it and the more positive experiences I create for myself.
I tore myself way from a verbally abusive man about two years ago. Was it hard? YES. Was it worth it? YES. I felt empty and sad and desperate for so long. Then one day I had a talk with myself, and decided to “create a kick ass life for myself.” I took a painting class. I started exercising. I planted a garden. I went to Paris. I went to Oxford. I took summer classes. I started to hike more in nature. I went on charter fishing trips. I made a quilt. I taught myself how to can. I rented a sander and refinished my wood floors. I did all of this ALONE and guess what! I had a blast!!! Make a list of all the things you want to do in life, then get off your butt and go do them. After a while you will forget his phone number. After a while you will forget what you ever saw in him.
d,
I been there too! I didn’t even like the ex-eum but I didn’t realize I had abandonment issues either until I dealt with him. I didn’t like the idea of being “lefted out”! But once I got real with myself, I was able to heal and move on. Once I recognized that I was holding bcuz of my issues it got easier to let go. It took a couple more drama filled episodes, but I finally got it! This doesn’t excuse his horrible behavior, but I couldn’t be but so mad bcuz I had to own up to my part.
Thank you Natalie
I recently finished with a MM. He broke it off after 4 years. I had been accepting his lies (and so had his wife for that matter) and managing down my expectations because I thought he would leave her if I hung on long enough. He was often on the brink and would “escape” to me when things got bad at home and I believed everything he said about being unfulfilled at home. In the past, I would have been tempted to phone him and we would work things out and it would start up again. I have had just one text from him about how he is a horrible person and I am a beautiful person and that I deserve more and he can’t give it to me and that he will always have a special place in his heart for me etc etc. I have scraped together the bit of dignity I have left and ignored the text and not replied. I feel lost without him, but honestly can’t believe I have allowed someone to treat me so badly all these years. At least he acknowledges that he did not do things right, but that just makes me feel that he pities me and that is not a particularly nice feeling. Is it bad to want him to be miserable “trapped” in an unhappy sexless marriage? Why should I even care what happens to him or his wife? But I do. I want to believe that I wasn’t used, but that’s what it ultimately was.
Hi Mary…been there.
I think you wanting him to be punished by having a sh*tty marriage is normal. Part of the grieving process. My ex has sent me those same responses whenever I’ve confronted him on his behavior and it’s manipulation and a cop out. Except he’s right – you DO deserve more. You ARE a beautiful person, and he IS a horrible person. He just wants you to tell him he’s not. Don’t do it! <3
Thanks d,
I think you are right, he did want a response to the text. The only thing I did right in four years was not to reply to it.
Iv been there too Mary. Was involved with this married man, and begged him to leave his wife. Finally after 3 years he just walked.Well i met his wife, and discovered that this guyhad been playing me and had been discussing me with his wife all along. Ilearnt a whole lot of unpalatable stuff about him too.It was his wife who was trapped in a loveless sexless marriage, while this guy was playing the field. Now three years down the line i am so grateful to be out.
I know how you feel Anne. Although, I was the only person he ever strayed with in 22 years of marriage (he says), I did notice how much he appreciated young and pretty females when we were out. I am sure his wife feels quite intimidated sometimes by that, because I’m sure he still does that kind of thing around her. I think the behaviour that drove him to have an affair has not been addressed and I am sure he is the type to always be unfulfilled in a relationship. Even if he had left to be with me, he would have found fault with me eventually too.
Dear Mary,
I’m a belgian woman so excuse me for my English, your story is sort of the same as mine. I’m also leaving my married man, going no contact, after 200 attempts and 2 years of pure hell. The problem with my married guy is that he wants to keep status quo with the 2 parties and goes really far in this. He acts like he is making steps for divorce, renting an apartment, getting advice from lawyers for divorce together with his wife. But at the same time he buys her flowers, kisses her and says he doesn’t want to leave her, taking her out to expensive diners and nice hotels BUT does the same thing with me in the same week. At first I believed all the “renting his own apartment / lawyer – thing but still doing romantic stuff with the wife”, and looked at it as a process to come to me. But after discovering this website I could open my eyes, I realize his mentality is still the same and I feel that I’m always last at the priority list. He first cleans up the mess with the wife so he doesn’t feel guilty and make sure she keeps investing and then I got the leftovers. This guy has no interest in choosing. I hope I can stick with NC this time and don’t fall for the same con. He’s really playing us both (and even his grown-up daughters because they also keep being hurt, fighting and investing in him to win him back to the family – mega ego stroke for him), I just wonder if his behavior is linked to his weakness or that he is really conscious playing this game??
You are correct. He LOVES having two women, both of them jumping up and down saying Pick ME, Pick ME. He loves being at the center of all the drama and attention. He is using you. Move on. Make YOU the center of your life.
I’m new just signed up, can really use advice and want to share my experience..
i met him 12 years ago in college, were friends about a year. Im currently 33 he is 31. we went to movies, dinner, hung out, went over each others houses (were living with our parents at the time). We were just about to get close to make the relatioship to the next level . BUT suddenly he cut off contact with all his friends including myseslf because he had saw his ex gf going with some guy that was 2 doors from his dormroom. I tried emailing him , IMing him, nothing. He left my life but i always felt that we were “meant to be” and always had a feeling that it would have worked between us had it not been for that situation. Even though we had a falling out for years , i had always thought about him from time to time and even tried to find him online before facebook came to be popular.
fast foward to today. we found each other on facebook, the past year we reconnected. He apologized for the past and said he was stupid back then. Then he starts leading me on, initiating everything. He even said “oh man, bad timing all around back then”. we talked online mostly at first as we live in different states. He flirted , talked sexy to me, the works. We finally met each other a few times in person to get reacquainted. After a while i fell in love, and in a way i fell in love with him years ago even though we did not date then. We made love on 2 occasions. Really made me feel we were reconnected and eventually have a possible future-and believe me , he said and did things that made me feel that way.
After that he decides to tell me that he is separating from his wife -I DID NOT know he was married. I backed away because of this because my gut tells me to stay away even if a guy is in a “seperating” phase. plus i was pissed. Well just a few weeks later i find some info and it turns out his wife is newly pregnant and the pregnancy was planned. i thought back to the times HE started initiating and to when we made love-it was the exact same time around he was Planning a pregnancy with her!
now i have heard of men cheating when their wives are already pregnant ( and that’s terrible too) but not while PLANNING a pregnancy!?
im so confused, hurt and agitated. and so embarrest -i told this guy how special he was to me, how i thought of him over the years of our falling out, i told him i looked at the sky and thought of him, i told him how much i cared …i got a total slap in the face. I havent heard from him in about 1.5 months. last i spoke online to him, i confronted him , but once i started telling him how i felt , he conveniently told me the phone was “dying” “sorry to rush”. I tried to tell him that he had to stop with the sexual comments thats how far i got. I told him i couldn’t believe what he did and that i gave him my heart. he says im in his….yeah but did he even care….i invested so much time with this guy. As for the wife-i don’t know her and feel bad. i refuse to contact the wife-im NOT going to be a homewrecker , if anyone is going to mess that marriage up-its him…..i wonder if karma will bite his butt one day…..Any insight to his behavior ? Aside from the fact I felt used…sigh
I’m so sorry to read this Cookiecubbie12… It disgusts me the way that these men are so free and easy with their lies.
My situation is slightly different to yours, but the end result is pretty much the same sad story. If I were you, knowing what he was like in the past, I would never have entertained him a second time – but I guess you had that feeling of “what if?” to contend with.
It sucks though… Especially when you have a genuine affinity with them. I would talk to my ex every day – even when he got deployed. We would discuss everything and anything together, tell each other that we loved each other etc. He did a great job of making me feel loved, never suspected any foul play at all.
To have it ripped away like this is painful, but we both need to use this experience and move on in a positive manner. I’m glad it was only 8 months of my life, and will not waste a single minute pining for his sorry arse, and neither should you.
Chin up hun, keep me posted.
x
Check out a blog called “Chump Lady,” which talks a lot about why men cheat. There is nothing he can tell you that has not been already said by a thousand other cheating men. They are all the same. Dump his ass. Don’t look back.
You had helped me in so many ways Natalie! I have 2 of your books and i re-read them often. Thank you. You always say the right words.
I have read the majority of your articles and this has to be the best one. Thank you. It’s been 2.5 years since my breakup and I have grown so much and reflected on so many things. Sometimes I feel sad as I still care about him and drift into old patterns of thought. This article hit the nail on the head for how I need to continue to do what I am doing and why. You are truly awesome!
Natalie, you’re the best!! Thanks for the work you do.
–Andrea
USA
Have you looked into SLAA, Nat? This is all very good advice — but to some of the women who are engaged in these patterns, it is an addiction, and a sex or love addiction can be as strong as a heroin addiction, and needs similar treatment. No amount of advice or talk therapy can equal 12-step recovery and meetings if there is an underlying addiction.
As an Al Anon and CODA veteran with more than 10 years of 12 step experience, I respectfully disagree. While I did get a lot from Al Anon meetings, and just a bit from CODA, it took Natalie to explain exactly how to become emotionally available and stop going after EU assclowns, cheaters and passive aggressives.
Even though I still have an occasional slip, I catch it much faster and when I do I immediately bail out.
Natalie taught me to always choose myself it’s a matter of me or someone else’s needs.
Therapists call it, “developing an internal locus of control.”
Hi Tangerine,
12 step does work for some and does not work for others (myself in the latter category). Natalie works for me to include testimonies of BR folk along with my therapist and other one-on-one ways (important to include spiritual element/guidance given our spiritual nature) where I can intensely work at bringing up unhealthy causes/roots…
Given what I have said above, no amount of talk/therapy/12 step etc is going to work unless the addicted person actually/consistently puts in the practical effort and work for recovery. And maintenance work is required from thereon to maintain healthy new habits formed.
This is my experience as well. I was in SLAA for several years and saw people there who had been for decades and (to me) seemed isolated and stuck. I think its up to the individual to test different approaches and put together a recovery plan that is effective and sustainable. In my opinion, I found it harmful that the 12 step programs emphasized that you could not remain ‘recovered’ without them. To me this breeds dependency on meetings and sponsorship for people whose problems are mild to moderate. There were people there who had brushes with the law for sexual crimes/indecency, etc. For those people, it absolutely made sense to be in a program for the rest of the lives.
My issue with SLAA was that everyone is lumped together – from the love addict who can’t get over one ex, to the person who ruined their marriage with multiple affairs and STDs, to the virgin addicted to cyber sex – all are told they must be in the program for the rest of their lives. For me it was helpful for about 3 years, and I would definitely recommend it to some of the women on here. At the same time, I would caution against adopting language that one is a lifelong “addict”.
This site helped me to understand WHY I was so miserable with my MM. It helped me to understand what part of the problem was mine, and how to fix it When I decided to leave him, the moral support from the other women here was incredible. Now I check in once in a while when I feel I might be having a “moment of weakness.” I have not contacted him in 1 year and 3 months. When I get the urge (not so often, not so intense any more), I look here and then I get a grip. Then I reward myself for making the right choice for me!
Every month on the anniversary of my last contact, I buy myself a treat of some kind as a reward to sticking true to myself. It’s nice.
I’m happy to report that after one year of suffering from a serious depressive episode brought on by 2 surgeries and mourning the loss of a relationship with a man who who left me shortly after the first surgery, I’m finally doing well.
I cried almost every night for an entire year. There has been only one other time in my life that I felt so helpless and abandoned. A couple of months ago I didn’t think I would date again. I couldn’t stand the thought of being close to a man or anyone for that matter. I didn’t leave my house to go anyplace except work and maybe the grocery store. But I kept taking care of me. I practiced yoga, went to therapy (been doing both for years anyway)and watched Neflix for the first time. Boy what a life saver lol! Suddenly and slowly I started to regain just enough motivation to join a girlfriend to a party. I hated it and didn’t have fun but it planted a small seed. One month later I went to a movie with the same friend. The week after that I went to a networking party and was introduced to some very nice people. I befriended one woman who invited me to her Memorial Day party. I went. Then met a man who invited me to his party the following week. I went, met another nice woman I befriended had a good time. Wednesday the host of the party and I are going to lunch. I’m not officially calling it a date (instead it’s a colleague lunch) but my friend and mother says its a date. One month ago I never thought I’d make new friends and be in the company of a man in a potential romantic capacity. But here I am doing both and smiling.
Don’t let anyone tell you how long is too long to mourn. It might take 2 years, maybe two months. Often times we are mourning the loss of something deeper than the breakup. Take as much time as you need to rest and reflect. One day, you will break free of the cocoon and be forever changed for the better.
My better is that in the future, I will choose a partner who will support me as much as I would support him. I will never accept crumbs again.
Thanks for this. It’s really helpful. I have been mourning for a year too (a toxic relationship that spanned over a decade) and I don’t feel very close to the point of getting out of the cocoon. I’m proud that at least I am accomplishing a degree effectively despite the pain. I’ve just started going into therapy. People (including mutual friends) start asking me whether I have “moved on” with someone else (he obviously replaced me immediately) if they only knew the mess I’m in…I feel like a loser! I wish I could just skip all of this and get to the part where I am alive again…I don’t want him anymore but I do miss my life pre-breakup and the friends I’m not seeing anymore, the city where I don’t live anymore…etc…It’s easy for the assclown moving on with his ass on his own couch and the collection of emotional air bags all lined up! 🙁
@How; oh the ‘moved on’ question! A good friend asked me this after the ex-AC got married to someone no one knew he was dating (I say this because whats so great about rushing into marriage?).
‘You should move on, he’s moved on’.
And I said ‘has he moved on from being an a**hole?’. Ha ha. But I was upset to be asked this question as if it was a competition between us. And by that count, I am yet to ‘move on’. But in terms of living well, I think I have done quite quite well and I’m happy with where I am.
Reading your response has really helped me to feel better about where I am in my healing. I’ve been doing everything I can for myself (therapy, boxing, time with friends, acupuncture, Netflix binge-watching, mac and cheese, you name it), but at a certain point all you can do is wait on time.
It still feels impossible that I could be comfortable with another man in a romantic capacity again… but every time I read a story like yours, I get a little more hopeful. Thank you!
Wow! This is so sad and painful for me to read. I was in a longterm marriage with a totally emotionally absent witholding man who said all these textbook things whie I contorted myself to try to make the marriage better and accepted his crumbs, passive-aggressiveness and cutting down. It is true that this is soul destroying and risks killing your spirit and the very essence of you. When I think of the last ten years in the marriage , I think just of struggling. Leaving was a question of survival but I have had a long painful journey trying to regain my confidence and well-being. I knew I hated being in the relationship but didn’t understand the emotional costs to me. I am facing a lot of additional losses and so honestly some days are so tough as I try to be more authentic qnd caring of me.
Big hugs to you, Espresso! I feel there are a lot of similarities in our erstwhile marriages. I have been making progress by leaps and bounds, and hope the same for you.
Perfectly written and so applicable to me. I finally realized that what a person doesn’t do or say is as important and as disrespectful as some words and actions. I also read a wonderful post a couple of weeks ago: You gotta learn how to drop people with no warning. We are getting too old to explain to people what they know they’re doing wrong. (unknown author) I will be my best friend and best advocate from now on. I will look at situations and ask myself this question: If my best friend/mother/sister/daughter/niece came to me and presented this very situation about her life what would be my advice to them. Walk away and stay away from any situation where you are not valued.
Thank you for a beautifully written article.
Again, Natalie nails it as if she has a spy camera on my life.
About 25 years ago, I was seeing a physican who lived in a nearby city.
We how did attended high school together, and met up for affairs every 10 years until were 38.
By then she had a very successful radiology practice and l basically lived with her two weeks out of every month.
At first I thought it was very glamorous, dining on gourmet foods and drinking vintage wines and VSOP cognac every night after the requisite two bottles of wine with dinner.
One morning I woke up with a hangover from hell and I asked her why my head was hurting so much. Very casually, she said, “Oh, that’s just the fascia pulling away from your skull.” When I asked her w the hell that meant, she likened it to pulling the skin off of chicken breast.
That’s when it hit me that I was drinking three times more than I was used to, and we were turning into raging alcoholics.
When I mentioned it she got very defensive and asked me where I went to medical school, since I was diagnosing her as an alcoholic. I said to her, “l didn’t go to medical school, nor did I go to meteorology school, but I can tell you when its raining, and even the clerk at your favorite liquor store probably notices how much booze you buy every week.”
A huge argument ensued, and I walked out and didn’t see or speak to her for 25 years.
Then last January through the magic of Facebook we bumped into each other again. She told me She had stopped drinking “ages ago,” and that she had retired from practicing medicine and bought herself a horse farm about 250 miles northeast of me.
We talked for hours every night from January till late last month, and she never seem drunk although she seemed very sick. True to my prediction, she has acquired cirrhosis of the liver, and hepatitis C she had acquired from a needle stick on an infected patient. I was concerned, especially when she said her roommate had a German Shepherd who recently mauled her and broke her femur, that huge bone on the upper leg. The roommate was not paying rent nor was he doing much work around the ranch but he had enough pull to demand the epileptic dog got to stay inside. My friend was also paying $100 a week for the mutt’s phenobarbital. IT ALL SEEMED WICKEDLY FISHY TO ME?
She said she had missed me over the years and realized I was right about her alcoholism. She also said she never stopped loving me. For me that was codependent catnip, so in just a few days later I was rushing up to see her and check out her shady roommate with the mean dog.
I got there and I was shocked to see my friend looked like she was on death’s doorstep even though she was a year younger than me. It turned out she had hepatitis, cirrhosis, COPD, fibromyalgia, a hip replacement, a knee replacement, and the slowly healing fracture of the femur, and one like had gotten to choose shorter than the other, so she had to wear special orthopedic shoes and she couldn’t walk without one of those things with wheels and tennis balls.
ImagIne my shock when I learned she was stIll drInkIng, stIll smokIng, and now hooked on opiate RX pills and her equally addicted, paranoid drifter roommate had turned Into one of those rIght wIng nuts who thInks Obama is goIng to invade Texas and put all of us in FEMA concentratIon camps that used to be Walmarts, so Obama army can steal all our guns away and keep us quiet in the concentration camps.
Okay, I am a liberal who loves Obama. Long story short, I took care of me and got the f*ck out of that nut house. Once I got home, I called her brother and told him all about the cheese slipping off her pizza, he told me this was the phone call he’s been dreading for years, and I wished him luck and tell them she needed rehab, then assisted care living, and that teabagger hobo roommate of hers needed to be thrown off the ranch, and leave without the weapons he had amassed…using her credit cards.
I may still be too trusting and slow to catch on, but thanks to you, Natalie, when I do catch on I am out of there faster than a duck on a June bug.
Her brother asked me if I wanted to talk to her once she got sober, and I said, “No, I stop at the second chance and she just used hers up.”
Karen, I love your writing! You put your story-of-weirdness in such vivid terms, and had me laughing at “the cheese slipping off her pizza” (been there!), and getting out of there faster than a duck on a June bug. Apt, and priceless.
You’re so smart to see things as they actually are. You saw the situation years ago and left, and sure enough, her situation degraded like you predicted. Alcohol and worse. It’s sad you had to see here this way, but a real eye-opener, I’m sure.
I have a one-chance standard; you F with me once, and you are DONE. But then, I’m too old to wait around for second chances, and also too self-respecting to allow second chances.
Good story and good recoveery – thank you for sharing!
What a great story! You have a great way with words. I hope you write all this down. Would make a great book 🙂
OMG I just spent an hour detailing my latest nightmare reconciliation with a crazy ex I bumped into on Facebook in January (25 years later), but I think the internet gods so how long and nutty it was and they deleted it.
Long story short, she was a physician back then, but also a fall down drunk so I left her. This year, she lied and said she’s sober now so I drove six hours to see her at her horse ranch, and she and her hobo, conspiracy theorist, teabagging racist roommate are both addicted to prescription painkillers, both drunks, both chainsmokers, who both tried to convince me that President Obama was sending the US military to Texas, so he could round us all up and put us in FEMA concentration camps that used to be Walmarts. Once we all are locked up he’s going to take all our guns away from us, then keep us away from the media.
I’m a liberal, fer chrissakes, so the minute that I saw and heard all their drug and booze powered paranoia and teabagger fuckery, I beat it out of there quicker than a duck on the June bug.
Thanks for wising me up, Natalie.
Thanks Nat for this post. This advice actually also works for an employee and boss situation. I have a boss who was doing subtle things to take advantage and I just woke up last week to it and decided to make real changes. I started with changing my hours and I come in 3 hours earlier to start the day. I sort of did not “ask” or “tell” him, I just took advantage of a chaotic mixup with a delivery that came too early to say, “oh, I will start coming in early tomorrow.” And this means I see him a lot less and I don’t have to deal with him.
The boss is the owner of a small company, so he gets away with murder basically as no one calls him down on anything. And if you are wondering about me going to HR, well, HR is basically me!
Boss’s transgressions:
* He won’t buy an air conditioner for small stuffy office.
* He does not take a bath daily, and comes in sweaty daily to the hot stuffy office space we share.
* He gets frustrated with ordering supplies online and swears and cusses all day long about an online computer system he does not understand.
* Makes inappropriate jokes. I tried to tell him he is a walking lawsuit, he just laughed it off and said “I have been sued before.”
The good side?
He fired 2 people to bring me in, I don’t want to out and out quit quite yet as I need the money and he has been generous in other ways, so he has a good side. He just has a hygiene problem and is a bit rough around the edges.
He has a girlfriend who lives miles away, he does not see her daily, but only on weekends. She does not watch what he eats, how often he bathes etc. and I realized I was worrying about things regarding him that were none of my business. I wish she lived closer, as he would have to shape up daily for her, but she is an hour and a half away at best. She wanted to marry him (second marriage prospect for both of them with grown children), but he told her “No!” so many times he says “she stopped asking.” I no longer discuss personal things with him to set better boundaries, but I know this much about that situation.
So, now he treats me way better, when I come in at 7:30am now, he is NEVER there, and he gets the message. I do even more work as it is quiet and cooler in the am anyway.
So, this advice can work with a boss and should be used to set boundaries and standards just like with an errant boyfriend.
Thanks again for your insight. This advice also worked with my rude brother this week. He lost his job and threatened my parents to move back home, I called him and calmly told him that boundaries are being set on him as we speak, and he even got a job interview set for tomorrow while we were on the phone. Maybe now my parents will stop enabling him, though I doubt it, but now with boundaries, I am less angry with him and actually had the first civil conversation in decades with him today.
Dear Nat, you’re right. I agree with you and I am trying to go this route with all of my strengths, big time.
But I feel lonely. Not “I miss a boyfriend” lonely, but “I miss ANY significant relationship” lonely. For a set of circumnstances, I’m going through this process of mourning the toxic relationship while I live abroad and due to cultural change (and my mood, I guess) I don’t manage to make any new friends – besides being hypervigilant -. It’s too lonely. I feel like I don’t remember how human closeness feels like. It doesn’t help the process of letting go something that was wrong but felt familiar. I don’t see the end of it.
HowIGotOver
Keep remembering you have a lifetime relationship with YOURSELF.
You are the only ongoing full time permanent relationship you will ever have in your lifetime.
Let that sink in for a while and then think how are you going to look after this relationship (you) for the rest of your life.
People come and go, people die and some people will stick around for a long time. This is life.
How can you take care of and nurture you for the long term? If you are incapable of caring properly for yourself, how are you ever going to care about someone else who may come into your life. Love, care, trust, respect and honesty for yourself will flow on to others when you have these basics along with good boundaries in place for you and others.
If you can’t say no to being treated poorly, used, abused and accepting crumbs from anyone, where are you looking out for your own best interests and being your own best friend. A true friend (basically you) will give you a kick up the ass and tell you to stop acting against yourself by being in destructive go nowhere situations.
Yep, the world is full of sharks who are looking for their next meal but that won’t be you if you have your own back.
Fact is, we are alone, every single person on the planet is. This isn’t news but we can share our life with other people (and pets) but we can’t expect others to be or do for us anything we should be capable of doing for ourselves.
Nat says it all in this post, take a leap of faith and believe.
Natalie I need help. This post is talking to me I don’t see how to come out of begging this person back. They contiously tell me they don’t want me but I keep feeling like crumbs are better than nothing. It’s so hard to let go and move on. I know I can do better. But each day I feel like I have nothing to move on to.
Dee, Natalie said ‘believe’ and it does take a leap of faith, it always does. To me the best changes always follow a leap into the unknown and blind faith. I personally don’t believe in a higher power, but whether you do or not, you can certainly believe that with positive choices, a better life will unfold because you’ll make it work. It starts right now, with the calm that comes with living by your values and the power of making a decision instead of living by someone else’s whims.
Dee, I hope you can find peace. I can honestly say that in my experience, those feelings are created by the shitty situation. That is why No Contact helps, it removes the source of the pain.
I learnt that actions = feelings
So, answer a text = feel bad
Go to the gym = feel good
Start with the basics and you will get there xx
Dee, crumbs are not beetter than nothing. NOTHING is better than nothing.
Even if you have nothing to move on to except a boring day washing your dishes and doing your laundry, and feeding yourself the whole loaf in terms of how you value yourself, that is 1000% better than accepting crumbs. Please realize that, and take care of yourself. You have yourself to move on to!
Woah this is such a timely article for me. After 8 months in a casual FWB with an EU work colleague I am finally ready to set my standard and move on. Its been two weeks since we last hooked up and while I will miss the physical relationship I know I won’t miss the emotional drama, fear, anxiety and other crap that goes along with it when I know my boundaries are being crushed. I am done with trying to be more in order to please him and make him want to commit because I know I am more than enough and that I can do so much better.
It has been difficult for the “good high self-esteem” me to convince the “low self-esteem” me that I deserve a better standard of treatment than he is prepared to give – mainly because I really don’t think I want a “proper” relationship at this point in time (I broke up with my partner of 4 years last August) and am quite happy to date casually until I meet someone who changes my mind.
That said, I do know I will no longer accept being treated like garbage by anyone let alone a short, balding, red headed player who in all honestly I don’t even like as a person and who should be crawling over broken glass to have the chance to be with someone like me.
I need to remember that even when only wanting a casual relationship I still need to set my standards and boundaries and insist on being treated with respect and consideration.
Thanks for the reminder Nat 🙂
Whoah. I so agree with you here Poppy. I too was recently having a casual fling. I really like when you said that “even in a casual rel, you still need to have standards and boundaries and insist on being treated with respect and consideration.” I was so blatantly not being treated like this. My toleration for bad behavior seems to be decreasing. I, too, sometimes miss the physical relationship but have decided that jerks are no longer welcome anywhere near me.
Gosh. This article is so me. I was with me ex on and off for three years. When he cheated, I forgave him. When he treated me badly, I lowered my standard and was so happy when he gave me crumbs. I lost myself and went to a dark place when we broke up for the 20th time. My doctor asked why I would let a selfish narc hold so much weight that he won’t care what you do with your life to make him feel guilty. He lacks empathy for if he did, he wouldn’t have treated the way he did. I’m working on getting to a better place and setting a standard to never be in that position again. No one deserves to treat me like what he did and I need to accept some blame that I saw all the red signs but just kept on accepting the treatment I was given. I had moments of clarity where I did no contact (longest 2 months) but his text and calls gave me some validation and hope that THIS time would be different. In the end, I realized that I was trying to save him to save me. I don’t think I have any daddy issues but rather, i have this savior complex. I wanted to be THE ONE who inspires him to be good (he is a bad boy). but after so much heartache, I am seeing the light. I hope I will find love again and this time, to my standard where it will be a mutual loving, trusting and worthy relationship. Wishing all the ladies strength whereever you are and know, we DO DESERVE to be a great relationship. Don’t settle.. it’s not worth your mental state or your emotional state. love and hugs.
Sammi, you didn’t know what you didn’t know (that he was a narc), so self-blame only goes so far. You can read “Narcissistic Lovers” and see how horrible and unchanging they really are; that will help.
If you have a savior complex, that may mean codependence. I’m a classic codependent (in recovery) and narcs spot us like a robin spots a worm.
And bad boys suck.
This post is so, so, good – loved the video delivery. Preach, Natalie. PREACH! Tellin it like it IS!
We have to find our sense of self. I am 50+ and recently finding my self. In the last few months. It is an ongoing process. It started with dumping the AC “for good” in November 2014, and losing my job in December 2014, getting a limited severance. I’m not going to call it a blessing in disguise yet, because it is scary being unemployed at my age. But I notice I am more committed to “finding my tribe” than I have ever been in my life. I am following up on my own interests, doing things that are good for ME first. Confronting when necessary – case in point – a nosy Old Man neighbor who sweet talked my Mother into allowing him to take our trash bags one trash day. Not discarded trash items like old electronics and furniture and junk – the actual trash bag, the kind of thing the police take when they want to investigate someone. When I found out by happenstance, I suddenly felt very exposed and unsafe…imagining him finding out where you shop, what you like to eat, jerking off in tossed underwear. Mom of course dismissed my concerns, but I told her I would ask him to stop it. I wanted to do things civilly, because “neighbor wars” can turn ugly. He had only done it one time. Then, a few months later, again by happenstance, I found out he did it a second time. When he did it a 3rd time, and I was home to see it, I walked over to him and said “You took our trash? Don’t do that.” He asked me why. I calmly said “Because I don’t like it.” He got blustery, said “Lemme explain….” I cut him off, saying I heard he had an “in”…but don’t take my trash. He said “You had your say now let me have mine. I useta work for the department..!”. I said nothing. Then he said “I’m not lookin’ in your trash!” I said “You’re a great neighbor, but don’t take my trash bags..we good? “ He acquiesced. No more incidents. We’ve only seen each other once since then, and he ignored me.
Mom of course took to phoning neighbors asking if Old Man had taken their trash, to which everyone said NO. We recently got a new next door neighbor with a purported unsavory background, and Mom saw Old Man take his trash. So now she thinks I might have had a valid reaction, there might be some reason to suspect Old Man is snooping through the trash, because he has no relationship with the new neighbor.
But I no longer need you to understand or agree with, or even approve of what I think, Mom.
Though my life is in flux, I sometimes feel peacefully grounded. When the screaming meemie fears come, I remind myself to enjoy what I can about having no job and my time being “mine”. Last month I went to a tech meetup where a woman said to the group “Don’t be afraid to quit your job. Take that time and teach yourself some new programming skills – there are lots of jobs waiting for you!”
I do wish I had taken control of my “self” months ago – years ago. Don’t think I’d be unemployed now. But I am where I am.
D, I relate to you saying “I’m going to take care of ME”. I have always felt alone, done things alone. Since 16 I have always been either alone or in a codependent relationship. But at 16, I had interests that captivated me, and I see that girl who pursues her interests is coming back, and I like it. I am just now addressing the “always alone” part, having the courage to look for what fits ME, rather than accepting what simply dropped in front of me.
When I think of what’s in my trash … Eeeeew! What a weird old dude and how creepy.
Yep, sorry Mom, I got my own life to run, I’m all grown up and can make up my own mind. Kinda butt out ok!
Thank you, Natalie. This is excellent; you have some great stuff, but this is one of your best posts. Even though it’s been a year and a half since my break-up, there are still a lot of times when I rely on your perspective. The reminders you give are life-giving and life-changing. I’m so, so very grateful for your work. You make an enormous difference to so many!
I left a future faking Assclown back in March. He had a gf, I was married on the brink of divorce. I finally got divorced, he continued to Future fake. You taught me well Nat! I left for good and have been NC for 3 months, a record. Now 40, I realize that it’s time to have the relationship I desire, without compromising. Your column’s sound advice is outstanding! I continue to nurse the bastard child who suffered from low self esteem and unworthiness. I get better and better. Love you! Your soul is beautiful!
@Lysah,
I so much relate to your story. I am on the brink of divorce with an EUM. I got involved with a lying, future-faking, passive aggressive AC four months ago. I started NC 4 days ago after getting a silent treatment for 2 days because I stood him up. Whereas, he has stood me up several times with no explanation and I accepted it. I am beginning to have more peace in my life than I have had in my 7 years of marriage and 4 months of dating an AC.
I am codependent by nature but I am learning to be alone and to enjoy the company of myself.
@Natalielue AMEN SISTER GIRLFRIEND! High fives to self awareness and personal growth.
Go Natalie! I love how you see the same issues over and over, but never lose the energy or passion to put things right. I had over a decade allowing my worth to be determined by another person, spending so much time in misery and fear. Thanks mainly to your wisdom and my determination, I live freely and know my own role in the world and what I can and can’t control, I have a good sense of right and wrong, I know what makes me uncomfortable and why. I do better things, I make mistakes and I learn from them, always looking forward or confronting the past if I need to. Things are so much better!
“…once you start to treat you with love, care, trust and respect, not only will you not accept less than what you can already do for yourself but you will also align you with entirely different people and situations.”
In addition to feeling better overall, I think this has been the single greatest reassurance that I am getting healthier: seeing the changes in who’s hanging around my life since going NC three months ago. I almost wish I would run into him because things are going so well (lol) – once I booted his EU ass out, there was *room* for people and projects that truly deserve my time and attention. I think, if you’re wondering if you’re doing OK, take a look around at who’s around and how you’re spending your time now. This is good evidence you’ve done it!
I feared these changes at the beginning (“If I do xyz, I am making it harder for us to reconcile/rekindle”). Now, I welcome them as evidence that I am focusing on me and the healthy people/things around me are moving closer to fill my time joyfully.
I think this latest post is really the underlying message of the whole site: stop settling for less and begin to trust that you are worth more – and you will receive more, as a result.
“stop settling for less and begin to trust that you are worth more – and you will receive more, as a result.” Gonna write that down, thanks!
I’m glad to know that is helpful, Veracity. Some days are easier than others and I try to journal when I feel solid so I can come back to that when I feel wobbly. This website also helps me get back to my center when I feel off-course and start to wander back into focusing on my EU. Knowing that my thinking resonates with folks helps me too – so thank you!
This article really speaks to me right now….because I am desperate. And hurt. And angry. I have been dating a guy off and on for 18 months. I am in my mid-30’s and he’s the first guy I have ever truly loved. We’ve broken up and gotten back together more times than I can count (I’m always the one to say I need distance because I need more). And I even had no contact with him for 4 months before I went back because I missed him so much. I struggle every day with the notion that to have him in the capacity I do have him is better than no capacity at all. And I hate myself for that. I’m smart, I’m educated, I have a good job, I have great friends, and I have an awesome family. Why this relationship has brought me to my knees boggles my mind. But it has…every single day for the last 18 months. I don’t believe he has ever intended to hurt me, but he unintentionally hurts me every day. After 18 months, he feels uncomfortable with the terms “boyfriend/girlfriend.” He says he cares about me and wants to be with me, but he just isn’t ready to make any sort of commitment. He says he would introduce me to his family, but he hasn’t. He’s moody, and I think he probably suffers from depression. I exert so much energy trying to make him feel better, while I only feel worse. But….I love him. I love having fun and laughing when I’m with him. I love that he loves his family. I love talking to him. I love that he’s the first guy I’ve ever felt truly in love with and that I’ve told him things I haven’t told anyone else before. I don’t know what to do. I read this article right now and think “There it is…this is you. Get out of this.” And then I can’t…and it scares me that 5 years from now, I’ll still be here. Sorry for this stream of consciousness, I just needed to write down these thoughts somewhere. Thank you for what you do for so many women out there. I wish I had your strength.
Michelle!
If a man hasn’t made you his girl friend after 6 months, the chances are that he is not going too! You have given him no reason to change his mind because if he can still continue to see you and get the benefits, he doesn’t need to have a relationship. I don’t want to hurt your feelings but he is never going to be your bf. Walk away and began healing yourself. I can guarantee that when he meets someone else (and he will) and begin a relationship it’s going to hurt like hell if you still continue to hold onto him! Sorry!
It’s great that you feel love, Michelle. But he does not love you. He likes you and he will NEVER feel more than that….so don’t pin any hopes on him eventually falling in love with you, it won’t happen. Stop trying to find the magic formula that will make him embrace your love.
So, now that you know this imbalance of feelings will always remain, ask yourself if you can live with that. If the answer is yes, I think the next question should be “Why am I willing to live with that?”
What is it you are getting from him that you think is so rare it can’t be found with another? Some sort of validation of your being is going on.
The ACMM I finally got over was a charming man who validated me by “seeing” me. We did the same kind of work and I could tell he valued my opinions. He empathized with the little disappointments of my day. I still get a thrill remembering how he said “That’s not you” when I wore frosted blue nail polish one day….because he was right, I was trying to be more flamboyant, which is not me…..and I felt so SEEN ….that is catnip to someone who grew up not ever being seen by her own family. I know he likes me, but he does not love me.
I wanted him to love me. For a long time I accepted less than what I wanted, because I thought..it was enough. He was tall and handsome, and mannered, and funny, and I was comfortable around him…but things I really wanted from a man were lacking, and I started to die a little bit on the inside. I actually sacrificed my libido to stay in this non-relationship….why was I so willing to do that? That’s when the work began for me….and I started to learn about the hunger for validation, where it comes from, and why we sacrifice so much to get it.
We think by accepting less, we’ll get more. That is so wrong. You GET more when you REQUIRE more. Whether on the job, or making a purchase, or in a relationship…you have to start from a point of power. Feeling powerful about yourself.
BTW, your guy sounds like he is attached to someone else. And, uncomfortable with “boyfriend/girlfriend”…?…..if you still want him to be your boyfriend after a line like that, you are in serious denial/fantasyland of what is happening between you two.
Elgie,
“We think by accepting less, we’ll get more.”
Insightful and you are so right. That thinking is wrong.
@Michelle; energy vampire. Thats what he is. A weak person that can’t commit. In fact he is also getting crumbs from you. You think you give so much, in his mind its crumbs, he’s looking for more, better, perfection, the princess of his dreams. Its a fantasy for both of you. No woman will complete him, he’s a bottomless pit of need for validation.
By being so nice, you put him in your debt. We think people respond to that with reciprocation – they dont, they resent it. Why do you keep giving to someone that resents you? Thats not love for yourself, and its not love for him – ergo, its not love. If the balance of giving is so off, the person doing the taking starts to resent the debt they’re accruing.
Run.away.from.this.man. He will suck you in, and destroy your self esteem while pumping himself up. Its already happening. He’s not your bf. No one person gets to decide. Being someone’s bf/gf is a mutual decision two people reach almost without much thought. Its not a negotiation or a compromise. Its not something you can withhold while still maintaining a relationship. I have to say even though it might hurt to hear – this is not love, you dont love this man, this is a feeling of need and fear and not wanting to lose. Love means happiness, joy, trust, safety, peace – it also means of course fighting, apologizing, compromise, sarcasm etc etc – but once you have commitment you can weather these little storms.
Also, you might need to ask yourself why this is the first man you’ve loved if you’re in your mid-30s. We’re a lot of single people here, so we’ve loved and lost, not to say thats better than your timeline. But have you been hiding your heart, so afraid of letting go and then you manage to find someone that is totally not capable of love? This is a good learning experience I think – you learnt to love someone, now you need to learn how to let go. We’re all on here because we’ve done it before and lived to tell the tale. And lived very well, may I just add.
All comments to Michelle so far = exactly, 100%, right.
SUKI, you are a beast! your first paragraph to Michelle helped me! THank you!
Elgie – I’ve been reading this blog for several months (I’m in a 2 year non-relationship with MM) – I’ve read such great advice on this forum but I really like what you wrote, enough to sign on and post. I’m going to think about your words tonight, thank you for taking the time to post. Can you tell me what happened to your MM, the charming guy who made you feel so validated? The way you described it sounds so familiar to me – it’s so hard to walk away from, but I know I need to do it. My guy is like yours – mannered, handsome, funny, caring – problem is, he’s married to someone else. And has never made any pretense otherwise. I’m not getting any younger living in this weird fantasy but can’t find the strength to walk away. I’d love to hear more about how you moved away from him and on with your life.
Hi, Blondie53. ACMM is still around, I am just no longer interested and I don’t respond in any way. He’s emailed me, using the same old lazy texts as always, trying to hit reset. He’s called my cell, I don’t answer.
I don’t know what happened. Something changed inside me. I got tired of crying over him. Yes he is very good looking and a rock of a man, but he is HER rock, not mine. I realized I want someone to be MY rock. That takes time and mutual involvement, which means I’ve learned that casual sex is not for me anymore.
Over time I noticed I walked such a narrow line with him. I knew nothing about his daily life and he knew nothing about mine. The “relationshit” was actually very shallow – general conversation about work and weather and politics. Fun conversation, but surface conversation. He wasn’t “in” my life and I wasn’t “in” his. It was just a longtime booty call between two nice people. The only time we talked was when he came over for the booty – there were no “just called to say “hi” “ moments with us…unless he sensed I was pulling away…the total AC play. Just feed enuf crumbs to keep the booty.
At some point I just realized I was settling for less than what was possible for me.
I also started dismantling the pedestal I had him on. I had graded his sex skills on a curve, because I was so thrilled that someone as physically desirable as he was coming to see me. (Low-self-esteem alert!) But his lack of interest in giving pleasure began messing with my mood. Then I noticed I could predict the threads of conversation. Then I took notice of my habit of writing down “topics” to talk with him about – because we never talked about our real lives – he never mentioned his wife or children and he never asked about my life – he doesn’t know the names of any of my coworkers/friends and I don’t know his. We drink beer during our visits, and IF he brought anything over, it was always FOUR bottles – two for him and two for me – never a 6-pack in 3 years – and he always drank his two. And I realized this is who he is. A selfish charmer with good manners. Eye candy. And eye candy does have value for a lot of people. Sometimes it is all people actually want. Not judging. I hope the guy for me does make my eyes light up. But ACMM is not that guy.
Ugh, I know this guy…I’ve dated this guy. Not married, but everything else sounds very familiar. I recently met another one just like this…my male version of kryptonite. Not taking the bait this time. Damn cleft chin and blue eyes…..workin’ on my house instead.
Michelle,
You gotta find the strength to leave it.
If I can leave a man just like that, so can you.
You gotta muster up the courage and fall back on all those great things in your life: “I’m smart, I’m educated, I have a good job, I have great friends, and I have an awesome family.”
RUN from that man!!
This is for d: while I didn’t send Natalie’s post, I did email him telling him I was done. Amazingly, he called. But, while he listened, he ended up putting this failure back on me. His cheating and lying back on me! He’s so used to not taking responsibility, his default setting is to blame. Then, because I’m the bad guy,he hangs up on me. We’re talking a 56 yr old man here. I expect now he’ll disappear. Not having seen him for over a week, I’m glad there was no face to face. He is a child. He’ll be somebody else’s problem now.
Areil, he’s a narcissistic “Who, me? I acted impeccably” idiot. If he disappears, it’s a gift.
Wow ariel, I’m sorry to hear but happy that his behavior basically confirmed what you already know: TIME TO MOVE ON!
He can’t take responsibility for his own behavior so puts it on you and hangs up on you – wow. Sure, he’ll disappear for a while, waiting for his phone to ring from you apologizing. When you don’t, I have a feeling he’ll pop back in the future. I think your job now (and mine as well) is considering how we’ll deal with it if/when they do. This is the longest I’ve gone without speaking to (er, texting with) my ex-EUM. It’s been a full week of NC!!!! (cue the celebration music!!!) I seriously feel like I am a drug addict going through withdrawals. Very up and down with emotions but something Nat said to the effect of, ‘Waiting for them to call during NC is staying stuck in the bargaining stage’ hit home for me. It’s only been the last day or two where I haven’t been obsessively checking my phone to see if there’s a message from him. At first I was sad that he was leaving me alone and not still trying to be in contact but now I’m grateful. Because if he had, I would have responded. And the longer he leaves me alone the more I realize I am better off without him. The clouds are lifting. I don’t know how easy or hard this is for him and I don’t care. I even have a coffee date on Sunday! I’m not looking to get into anything serious until I start doing some real work on my abandonment issues, but it does feel good to get out and meet more people. Sorry, didn’t mean to make this all about me. Hang in there, I hope you are doing okay!
Just FYI… The married assclown whose crumbs and passive aggression led me to Natalie’s site in 2013… is now a distant memory. I read old journals and laugh at how crazy she used to make me. Not anymore. I’d rather date Dominic Strauss Kahn than my loony ex. This shit works! ????
I’ve been reading this blog for many years and recently found myself involved with a MM despite the knowledge I thought I had. But rather than beat myself up over my mistake I feel better equipped than ever to trust myself and make better choices. Instead of driving myself up a wall and settling for crumbs for years on end it only took months this time (still too long) for me to see the light and choose me. Words are not enough when the actions are so clearly self-serving and bare minimum on their part! I was able to stand up for me and make it clear that I am worth far more than *he decided I’m worth. No contact now and I’m not doing what I used to do, using NC just to see if he’d Crack first or miss me, or wonder why he doesn’t see the error of his ways and prostrate himself at my feet. I can’t know what goes on in his pointy little head. Who cares what he is doing or what he thinks?!
Of course it hurts like hell at times to get it so wrong especially when I knew this couldn’t go well, but like Natalie said, staying will only destroy me. So many of your words have stayed with me during hard relationship times but love, care, trust and respect are the paramount ones! No real relationship can exist without these things. The alternative of indifference, uncaring, untrustworthy disrespect doesnt sound too palatable. I experienced that, I chose the wrong man but I’m free of his sorry ass and his lies. There’s got to be better for me out there.
Each time I read a new post I am amazed at how far I have come since the AC that brought me here. Last week I received an email from a former friend who, at my lowest point, undermined my marriage and other strong friendships. She was a cheater, a manipulater and toxic with envy. She wanted to know if I wanted the baby things I had given her and she missed me. I replied but didn’t acknowledge the emotional hooks. Now I know I will deal with the AC in the same way (if I ever have to, NC has been so good and not worth breaking). Thank you Natalie, I hear your truth.
Nat I love you and what you do for giving women the strength to go on.
This one brought me to tears.
Another great post…..it has been 18 months since I last saw my MM but I still visit this site regularly to read and continue to learn. I have in this last eighteen months separated from my husband of 20 years, we are still the best of friends and it has gone very amicably. I have become independent for the first time in my life and I am 50 next week.
I still think about him a lot and how low I actually felt when I was seeing him. My self esteem was at an all time low and I did the trying to change to make him want me more, show me more attention, throw me more than a few crumbs, it was so degrading and soul destroying I did not recognise myself in the end. It has taken a lot of reading and soul searching but I am getting there. I have no interest at the moment in getting involved with anyone. I have good friends who I appreciate so much more now. I learnt that none of us deserve to be thrown crumbs and to think that we should somehow be grateful for that. I used to think I missed him but I have learnt that really it was just the excitement of him, in reality I was miserable most of the time. I am slowly learning to love myself and forgive myself for letting a man make me feel so worthless. I am getting there and I totally agree with Nat says about learning to love yourself, respect yourself and enjoy being by yourself, that alone has got to take you to a better place. Thank you Nat and everyone on this site you have no idea how much I have learnt over the last eighteen months that have helped me to get where I am today.
Hi
Can anyone tell me why men go silent? I was dating someone for 4 months. He’s left the country for 6 months which had been planned for some time. We are no longer together but have not fallen out. He’s completely ignored 2 friendly attempts at contact. I’m completely gutted. We might not be in a continuing relationship but surely one doesn’t need to be unkind?
Y
Yoyo, sorry that you had go to thru this. I know it hurt, Ive jsut gone thru a similar thing. You do know that this is about him. It is not about you. His lack of kindness, consideration and empathy truly shows the type of person he is.
Please think about going into NC. You have tried and done your best, you dont want friendly connections or affection that is forced. You are wonderful, special, loving enough to have someone give you all that without forcing or contacting them repeatedly. Know that. Believe that. You dont want unkind people in you life, they dont change and you dont need more unkind, hurtful instances.
Sending you warm hugs 🙂
Yoyo – I feel into the same trap a few months ago. I know it’s still fresh and so you’re still in shock mode, wondering what is it about YOU that made him do this to you. This isn’t about you at all. This is all about HIM. Please don’t blame yourself for this. Keep reminding yourself that someone who really cares for you, respects you, trusts you and loves you would never do this to you. And if that’s what they choose to do, then you know for sure they don’t belong in your life. Look forward, spend time with those who value you, go out and have fun. People who are meant to be with you will stay. Give yourself the opportunity to meet a guy who will meet you and never let you feel uncertain about what is happening. Best of luck to you dear.
I like the word ‘standard’. Unlike the word ‘boundary’ a standard cannot be busted through or trampled over. A standard is something you set for yourself for others to rise to.
You see, when you set a standard other people have no choice but to respect it.
If you decide you are a person with standards and act accordingly, all the wrong people will fall away.
It’s subtler but all together stronger than a boundary. It’s not an external measure, instead it is who you are.
Thanks Nat
Bx
Oh Nat, How I wish I had found this website and your many empowering posts over a year ago.
Perhaps I wasn’t ready at that time to accept it, but at least I could have had a think about not wasting all that time wondering about that assclown.
I used to think I was a strong woman, not accepting people treating me like a doormat. But when HE pushed me off my throne, leaving me confused, my childhood dream broken into a million pieces, he took that strenght away from me.
Then came the crumbs… and in my hope that he would come back, I accepted that disrespect, bit by bit. Why the hell did I take that crap, why did I let him treat me as his personal toy…
Your stories all sound so familiar, so it’s slowly kicking in.
I must admit that sometimes the feeling of having him out of my life forever, overwhelms me. The hardest part is letting go of that fantasy. Funny (in a sarcastic way) when you have to realise that you can’t loose something you never had in the first place.
I can’t allow any more nonsense, not anymore, I can be strong, I deserve better! Here’s to strong women!
I firstly want to send big hugs to everyone who is here and have ended up here because of EU/ACs being absolute d!ckf@ces. I believe (really, really believe) that we will get out of this stronger and so much more happier.
Nat, such a timely post. I dont know how you do this, like you can read my mind!
Ive recently had to go back to therapy while I went back to dating after a year off it (online dating, ugh!). And I was hit with abandonment and reassurance issues that I thought I had put to bed. Im working with a kind, understanding relationship therapist to help me find strategies to build stronger relationships. Im looking forward to getting to the other side of things 🙂
Of course, I recently met, a now confirmed EUM. He was at university, doing a PhD and it meant that a lot of out catching up was based on his schedule. I have a 9.00-5.00 job and I was willing to be flexible as long as I didnt have to change my plans. He was busy, hard to communicate with, a LOT was about him-him-him. Red flags, thought they were amber. Now I know better!
I remember Nat’s post about people revealing themselves. And it took him exactly 6 weeks to reveal..and disappear. Yup. The first sign of needing support (I was home with a crook back and a stressed mum with gran in the hospital)when I texted to ask if I could call him later that day. Im not a needy/clingy person and I have a great support system. So I think I wanted to be ok with having a bad day around this person. And poof…gone! No text saying “sorry to hear that, lets chat later/tomorrow/this week”. Not even a “ok”. Nothing. As someone asked earlier here, “why be so unkind?”
In hindsight, it became a good gauge to see if this person was cut out for a mutually caring,trusting,respectful relationship. And he failed in the discovery phase (no sex yet).Gave it two tries (texts) and immediately went into NC. I didnt want to try to get someone who lacks basic kindness, decency and empathy back (WHY oh WHY are these so hard to find).
Sure, it has hurt me a little, made me wonder “is it me, did I make him do this” made me curse and wonder whats wrong with people. Nah, not me, he just showed me who he truly is.
But Ive learnt to, yet again, watch out for those flags. And set a higher standard. Its scary, its a new thing to do. But already, BR has taught me to stand up for myself. No crumbs. Flush the very first time there is boundary busting/disrespect. Imagine ending up with this idiot!
“Stop settling for less”.. Yes, thank you!! When you truly go no contact and set your standards higher, you create space for your life to heal, followed by space for new experiences and new people. When you stop settling by lowering your standards and boundaries, you create a vibe around yourself that only honest, good people are able to connect with and be let in. There may be fewer people in your circle for awhile, but at least try are good people that make you feel happy. And as you feel happy and build your tribe with good people, more and more good people an experiences are attracted to you. I have really felt this lately and it is truly wonderful. I can really feel my life and friendships expanding and I feels wonderful!! And it all started with no contact about 4 months ago.
To anyone who is struggling with losing someone they “love”, it is SO possible to feel these feelings again towards someone else ad to heal from an get over the object of your affection. If I can do it, anyone can!! But first you have to create space for yourself and your life without this person and grow in confidence and love for yourself. Tell yourself whatever you nee to at first to get through no contact (maybe we’ll be friends again one day, maybe we’ll be together next year and they’ll be completely healed, maybe I’ll meet someone new oh is even better). Whatever get you past the initial no contact hump.
I’ve been working on this and life is getting better and better. Had a little slip up in the no contact department two weeks ago that ended badly, but you know what? Who cares?! It’s his loss that we can’t be friends anymore. Yes, he might frame it like I’m the big loser here, so sad to live without him. But throughout our whole time together I was honest about my feelings and I tried to pull back when I had to and to be respectful as I could be, i tried to put to put myself out there and have faith in love an I got burned. So what?! He’s the one that was dishonest, unsure, untruthful, disrespectful and mean. He is not worth my time and never was. I just have to drill it in my head sometimes. I can’t believe he’s still on my mind! But I am working next on thought stopping and getting rid of dreams of him and thoughts of him. I keep seeing his name everywhere still. I can’t wait for that to stop!!
Anyways, that’s my update and my thoughts. I hope they are helpful to someone this week. Thanks for te post Natalie, it was excellent, as always.
“If it feels as if this person is the sole source of your happiness and at the same time, they’re the source of your misery, you can see where that person has become very skewed in your head and has become the thing that you are dependent on for your sense of self, for your emotions, for any sense of value here on earth, but that doesn’t have to continue.”
That feeling of HOW DID I COMPLETELY LOSE MYSELF. It wasn’t until after I was forever unwanted that I realized I had allowed him (BGE) to be this important. To me, he was the most wonderful person, Best Guy Ever, but as it turned out, to him I was just ehhhh, disposable. I definitely lost my sense of self along the way. And I DID beg, for only the second time in my life, (the other was years ago during my marriage) for another chance. I begged him not to walk away. Not to give up. But he already had. Over a year later, I still don’t know why.
” …it’s not better for somebody to be there but emotionally absent rather than being gone all together, because all of these things will kill your soul, they will kill your spirit and they will kill the very essence of you.”
Holding on to the belief that he could actually be the great, caring, thoughtful man he HAD ME BELIEVING that he was, did indeed suck the very life out of me once he just STOPPED “being” that guy. Crushed me. Depleted me. Brought me to a place I am still digging out of. Trusting him was the biggest mistake of my life, but he was soooo good at earning it. He said all the right words. He made me feel cared for and valued. I THOUGHT I had boundaries and standards but maybe I relaxed them with being too vulnerable, too trusting, too believing. I still remember waking up the night before and looking at him, thinking “wow, I am SO fortunate that I am with the best guy ever. Life can not get any better and I have never been happier.” And somehow this guy sleeping next to me, with his arms around me all night, was going through the motions, saying the right things, acting the part, promising a future for months, but not meaning or feeling any of it.
“They will distort your view of you and they will distort your view of what a healthy, loving relationship should look like.”
I want to ‘believe’ again.
My new mantra: Believe carefully.
Yes! Yes to everything! And I will add this – I know most of us will struggle with just cutting people out of our lives. Some of us will give them a chance to speak and defend themselves or prove to us that they are worth another chance. But I think we know in our hearts who is capable of changing and who is not (and we are not the ones who will be making this change – remember, they can only change themselves), and the ones who are not should be dropped like a hot potato. NC all the way. I’m finding myself doing this with non-romantic relationships as well. I honestly don’t have the time to teach a grown adult how to behave like a decent person, especially if that is just how they are. I’m not going to waste my time trying to get someone to be who they aren’t. Let them go!! Live your life free of these people. The more I love myself and stand up for myself, the more I see that cutting them out and just letting them be is fair for them too – they ultimately have the same right to live as they wish that we have ourselves.
Tea, You are absolutely right!
This is exactly what I’m struggling with… After the disrespect, the not caring, just after the whole mess of this non- relationship, I struggle with cutting him out of my life.. But after this week I came to the decision to go no contact. I was thinking of telling him how i feel and just to lay it out all to him, so he can “defend himself, and prove to me that he is worth another chance” but at the end of the day, he isn’t able of changing.
Thank you for your words, because you’ve helped me make my decision. He needs to be dropped like a hot potato (lol)
It sucks to lose someone who you really want in your life, but loving myself and treating myself with love, care, trust and respect comes FIRST..
Best Regards
TryingToBeStrong – I’m glad my post helped you make the decision! He will know very well why you chose to go NC without any explanation. Every day that you put yourself first, you will feel stronger and happier that you chose YOU over him. Know that this group here on Baggage Reclaim has your back. All the best.
Wow, wow, and WOW! Another very timely post. I finally did it!!! The ex came back from Japan last week for what was originally agreed to be a brief visit to sort out a few things (incl. “officially” end it by filing the divorce papers) and bring more of his stuff back to Japan, but then he tried to turn it into another open-ended occupation. This time I took control and put my foot down hard and he will be out once and for all on or before June 30th. I’ve been sounding like a broken gramophone record repeating ad nauseam: “No. You will not make that MY problem. No. You will NOT make that MY problem. NO. You will NOT make that MY problem!” No. No. No.
It finally at long last dawned on me how I have been letting him make the rules of engagement throughout this whole fucked-up thing for the past 17 years and guilt-tripping and emotionally extorting me into complying, but No más! Hell, even Roberto Durán has had enough. Articulating boundaries and limits, and asserting your basic human right to decent, respectful treatment, while it can be very uncomfortable to actually do it the first time, especially in the face of such a profoundly entrenched pattern, is SO empowering, and in fact it works like the proverbial “magic bullet” where all of a sudden your erstwhile oppressor starts complying, although at the moment I just feel kinda sick and punch-drunk….
Additionally, as I get more comfortable setting standards for what I expect for myself and asserting boundaries and beginning to stretch out my wings and explore and get to know who I am in the “Post-Chi era”, I am finding that my whole life is improving dramatically. I am attracting different people, new opportunities, and just better “luck”. Except for now that the ex has returned and brought his chaos and drama back here with him (to be gone again shortly!), I feel so full and content and at peace that I don’t feel any particular need to have a new partner, at least not for now.
On that note, for those who have been following this saga, I now understand and have a personal conviction about the reason why it is a really fucking terrible idea to get into a new romantic relationship when one is either immediately out of a significant involvement, or worse, not quite out of it yet, or worse still, doing stacked, overlapped entanglements. When I manage to distill it into a cogent, concise statement, I will write it down and publish it. Many thanks to all who have weighed in and advised me on my mess. Your thoughtful comments and questions have been extremely helpful to me in sorting it all out and learning to make better decisions going forward.
Great Brenda! Glad things are moving forward 🙂
Some of you may or may not recall me discussing a soldier I’ve been seeing for the last 7-8 months – where (for once in my life) everything was going really well and I felt like I’d found my match?
Long story short, I just found out he is in fact married with two young daughters… I don’t know why I didn’t just search for him on Facebook in the first place, and save myself a whole lot of time and heartache! I felt so happy and secure with him that I never felt the need to snoop on social media.
Before we even had our first date, I did the whole vetting procedure: “Do you have any kids? A wife? Any crazy exes I should know about?” etc. He answered resolutely “no” to all of these questions and I had no reason not to believe him. Later on in our courtship before he got deployed to Afghan in March, talk turned to how he’d like to get married and have kids with me in the future (I don’t have any, and he knew I wanted to settle down as I’m not getting any younger at 31). We started planning all the things we would do together when he gets back in August (e.g. a holiday together, meet my family and friends, a trip to Zambia to meet his family and friends etc). It all seemed so perfect, I had no reason at all to suspect anything shady. I never had a relationship with anyone prior to this where they actually wanted to meet my parents and make plans for OUR future.
Fast forward to the last couple of weeks: my Grandma is seriously ill with stage 4 myeloma in Jamaica, my cousin collapsed at work and found out that he has a brain tumour, and my brother had a cardiac arrest last Sun. I was feeling a bit overwhlemed by all these events and when I sent him a message about all of this, his response was a lacklustre, “I’m sorry to hear that.” WTF? Is that the most supportive reply you could come up with? I was also concerned about the fact that he never once enquired how my Grandma or brother are doing, or how I was coping? At first I chalked it up to him being busy working, but after a while it just seemed cold – like he didn’t care – so I challenged him about it and he apologised for not being supportive enough. He continued to be distant for the rest of that week, so in an attempt to get some info I decided to see if he has a FB account – where I also discovered his wife and kids.
He ignored my attemps to call him via whatsapp and skype, so I sent him a message explaining that I know about his wife and kids. He immediately blocks me from both modes of communication and has since ignored all of my messages. Arsehole. No explaination, no apology, NOTHING.
The old me, pre-Baggage Reclaim, would’ve been a crying mess over this shit. I would’ve assumed his deception was something to do with me not being good enough in some aspect, or about how I always attract low-lifes and scumbags. Now, aside from feeling heartbroken(I did fall for him pretty hard) and disappointed, the overarching feeling is anger coupled with a desire to destroy his picture perfect life (inform the wife, perhaps?).
I know I don’t deserve any of this. I value myself enough to know that none of this is my fault. Do I feel stupid? Yes. I can’t help but think maybe there were clues that I missed along the way – but I wasn’t looking for any because I was truly happy with our relationship. Aside from his deployment, I was in the kind of relationship I’d always wanted – loving, stable, committed, consistent, reliable. He made me feel loved, safe and special, and I can honestly say I’ve never had that before.
It hurts to see my hopes, and what I believed to be our future disappear into the ether. To know that everything I believed in was based on a lie. To realise that I never really mattered to him at all, yet he meant so much to me. That he could cut me out of his life as if I was never there at all. Wow. I could never do that to someone…
Where do I go from here?
Do I tell his wife?
Should I retreat and thank my lucky stars it was only 8 months of my life wasted and not more?
I already had major trust issues before I met him, how can I ever trust anyone else after this?
Lupie84,
Let it go! I am sure this is not the first time this guy has lied and cheated. Just be thankful you dodge a bullet and that you are not married to such an ahole! Hope your family feels better and God Bless!!!
Thanks Stephanie, I truly do feel like I dodged a bullet here.
I’ll be flying to Jamaica on Weds for my Grandma’s funeral – she passed away last Sat.
Looking forward to spending time with my family and God willing – seeing a beach or two whilst I’m there.
No island guys for me, promise!
Lupie, how will you feel when his wife says you’re the 5th or 6th or 7th woman this year who called to “tell” on her husband?
For you to spin “forever after” on the basis of an 8-month courtship…..? Lupie, the responsibility is not all on the AC. Future faking takes two to tango. This line in particular drips with fantasy and projection: I was in the kind of relationship I’d always wanted – loving, stable, committed, consistent, reliable. He made me feel loved, safe and special, and I can honestly say I’ve never had that before. You just cannot KNOW those things after 8-months of virtually problem-free dating. He called when he said he would. He showed up for your dates. He took you out and paid for the date. That does not equal “loving, stable, committed, consistent, reliable”. How about “He moved me into his home and took care of me when I lost my job. He supported me while I went to school. He praised me when I graduated.” Whoa…wait a minute…he kinda disappeared on you when you met up with some hardships….am I right?
I’m glad you’re not demolished by this. And, decades ago, I once made such a phone call. The man was single and had a live-in girlfriend who he had told me had fallen on tough financial times and he was helping her and she was moving out at the end of the month. I called the first day of the new month and she was still there. I dumped him, then in my anger, made that “tell on him” phone call to tell her I did not want him, but did she know what a creep she had? She asked “How long have you been seeing my husband?” HUSBAND? HUSBAND? He is such a liar! That is what I said. I apologized and told her I did not know he was married, and told her the story he had told me. He called a few minutes later to yell at me about “trying to mess up his HOME LIFE.” I said “Home Life?? I did not even know you HAD a home life!” He hung up after calling me crazy. We never spoke again and to this day I feel at peace about making that call. But I don’t recommend it.
Elgie R – I understand what you’re saying and appreciate your view on this, but I’m not as green as you may think. This isn’t my first rodeo – I’ve been dealing with ACs/EUMs since my late teens, and have learned to identify/flush them in record time thanks to Natalie and this incredible site. What encouraged me to get swept-up in this situation were the interactions I had with him and the quality of the (short) time we spent together – which was really great, until I found out about his family.
You say that one “cannot KNOW those things after 8-months of virtually problem-free dating” – maybe so. However I personally know a handful of people who have met and gotten married within 6 months to a year of meeting each other. Call me a fantasist/dreamer, but I do believe that some people just click and they know when they’ve met the right person.
I’m happy to take responsibility for my own actions when I know I’ve been ignorant of warning signs etc (I’m sure we’ve all done that before), but on this occasion, I cannot/will not blame myself for the fact that he’s a lying sack of sh*t. Yeah, he got me good! I believed all his lies, he gave me no reason not to. Not once did I catch a whiff of BS in the air.
Have I learned anything from this? Of course!
1. Online dating is not for me – encountered too many liars, arseholes, and enough bad dates to last me a lifetime. I’m done.
2. Don’t go looking for love – spent the last 2+ years actively dating and I feel like a wounded soldier.
3. Take things even slower – I genuinely got excited for the first time in years, and allowed myself to get swept-up in his future faking BS after a few months dating. I won’t be making that mistake again.
4. Time for a dating hiatus – emotionally and spiritually out of balance right now. Time for me to re-group, re-energise and do me now.
5. Reluctanctly starting to accept that I may not get the happy ending in the time frame I wanted (love, marriage, kids etc), so I’m openly considering alternative endings that don’t include these things.
I will always live in hope – that’s just how I am. But I’m so done with all of this crap.
I won’t be contacting his wife either, let karma sort him out.
Lupie,
I just read your story, I just posted mine today on here. I’m new to this site.
Isn’t it amazing how these guys think we’re stupid that eventually down the line we r going to find something out?
I too found out something was up and found things via fb, read my story if u want..my story is unusual.
But in all honesty, since u don’t know the wife, I would NOT bother and here is why…shit will hit the fan eventually. Something else is going to happen where he will mess up. every dog has its day….but will probably happen when you find your own happiness.
Be grateful you only wasted 8 months and not 12 years like me…
Natalie, this is the best article I’ve read all day. You are doing the world a favour by being you and sharing your knowledge on this spectrum of the human emotional experience. I just wanted to thank you for freeing your time to create this blog and helping others. Keep being you and keep writing! Xx
Struggling today. Day 9 of no contact? Why hasn’t he called? Why hasn’t he texted? Doesn’t he miss me? I know it’s better if he stays away like I asked him to, I know that I’m starting to get over him but there’s part of me that doesn’t want to.
I keep making a list of all the awful things he did/said and how incompatible we are, and the list of good things is 90% shorter. Do I just want him to want me so I can feel good about myself? I miss him but I don’t know why…maybe I just miss being desired. This is like coming off of a drug addiction. Did I really mean so little to him? Why does it matter? So many questions and thoughts and insecurities…little things keep popping up that make me think now that he was cheating on me. I don’t really want to know. I know it doesn’t even matter…I want to text him so bad to say hi but I won’t. My pride is too strong.
So I just want to say here, Thank you for not contacting me after I asked you to stop 9 days ago. Thank you for helping me uncover my unhealthy patterns in relationships by being so emotionally unavailable and crazy-making that I could no longer deny the work that I have to do for myself. Thank you for showing me that I deserve so much better than the crumbs you were feeding me. I feel sorry for you that you aren’t able to have a healthy relationship but that is not my problem. It never was. Please don’t future fake with other women just because you don’t want to show your true colors. Your actions never EVER matched your words, and I’m done beating myself up for believing in you because I am a loving, trusting person and those are GOOD qualities to have. I just believed your B.S. for too long because I had no boundaries. Now I am learning. Please keep your promise to not contact me because even though this is really hard, I do not want to be stuck with the decision of what to do with another one of your texts, even if it’s just to say hi. You’re used me and manipulated me. You don’t deserve my love. But I am still grateful. You have given me the gift of one of the most important life lessons I need to learn.
D, you are right on track with your healing. Just like ACs, we are allowed to want ego strokes too. In the beginning of our NC, we are hurt that the AC seems so OK with it. Surely he must miss us, after all we’ve done for him! But the real lesson in that angst is how much our self-esteem rode on him wanting us. It makes us see how many ways we twisted and contorted ourselves just to keep him, and it’s a little embarrassing to realize we could have done a WHOLE LOT LESS and got the same amount of interest from this man. We’ve been casting pearls before swine.
You will know it is just an ego stroke you want when he finally does contact you, and just the fact of his contact gives you peace. At least that is how it was for me. I felt that need-an-ego-stroke angst, and when a text would come, my ego was stroked and my angst would disappear without my needing to actually talk to him. And I know I am over him now because I don’t get any ego strokes from his occasional contacts any more. I think there was a five-month gap with his latest reset attempt. My ego was not stroked. Nor did I feel any intense anger. I felt like that line from that Danielle Steele poem – “no longer love, almost anger, yet not quite hate…..too late. “
I do think it is a lot easier to get over an AC when you don’t have to see him on a regular basis. It is harder if you work with them.
d,
keep reading your book. I am struggling with EVERYTHING you said, too! It’s only been two weeks (TWO WEEKS!) when I packed my shit up and left his house within two hours. It was the hardest move ever.
Within the last two weeks since I moved, I moved in with people I don’t know to start over, had realizations that my parents have much contempt for me, have had suicidal thoughts, darkness, confusion, love addiction/sex addiction revelations, loss of sleep, hardly can eat, and want to contact him so badly. HE treated me poorly; just the day before I moved he said, “It’s you and me Starr, against the world! I want this.” I left the very next morning, because I had to. I gave everything I had and he reaped the benefits of everything I gave and left me empty handed every day. I remember me saying over and over again, “my spirit is gone.” I miss a healthy relationship, not him. He is a straight dick. But, still, I have such an ache…
but, I think my light bulb is, the ache is for me.
Starr
Thank you Elgie. I keep telling myself this feeling of desperate longing and loneliness is not permanent but today it’s hard to believe. I’m in the process of fleshing out a new therapist, too. I can’t get over these abandonment and emotionally unavailable issues on my own.
Luckily we do not hang out at the same places and the chances of bumping into him are very small. Did you work with yours? Ouch.
Hey D..
Be strong.. my love with my ex was an addiction as well. Like you. I can write a list on how bad he is for me and yes, it like an addiction. You go through denial, withdrawal and all kinds of emotions. I’ve been with my ex on and off for 3 years and he managed to take my self esteem away and lower my standards to unbelievable lows. I used to be a secured self confident person and he took that away from me from not being open or communicating. In the end, he always blamed me for our problems when in the end, he was EU and needed women to stroke his ego.
I miss him dearly but we have to be strong to move forward. I know it’s hard but BR is a great place to share stories and know we are not alone. It’s sad, are all men like this these days? Will we find decent me in this day in age of technology (i.e. facebook, tinder, online dating). Let’s be hopeful and not like a bad experience jade us forever.
Mine has been 7 days of NC and yes, i wake up in the middle of the night looking at my phone to see if he has texted. Why do I want something so bad for me mentally? He is not a good person, called me so many names and doesn’t treat me right yet I would forgive him in a second if he gave me crumbs.. something is really wrong with this picture and I need to find a better outlook on things.
Hang tight.. let’s try to be strong together as we detoxify from these toxic men who are not really men, more like peter pan.. never wanting to take responsibility of their actions and only are selfish. So when he does text, it’s not because he misses us, it’s because he’s bored, hoping for sex or/and making sure they have this control knowing we are still pinning for him.. don’t give them that power..
be strong..xoxo
Tea and Purplelily,
Thanks for your comments. It really helps to know others understand. I think I’m just not wanting to accept that this person really doesn’t care how I feel. He’s away to clear his head after a divorce, bereavement, legal battle etc. I want to believe that it’s these things contributing to his inability to cope and also manage how I feel. I’m hopeful he will contact me one day (as most seem to eventually do) when he is back in the country. Am I prolonging my hurt by thinking this way, am I being too kind thinking there may be some circumstances where this is ok?
Like you Purplelily I had really thought I’d turned a massive corner with my abandonment issues and put things to rest. I honestly thought enough time had passed that there was no reason why he would ignore me. I have to go NC now definitely but I have a pain in my chest I don’t know how to tell to go away. Xx
Yoyo – How I wish we could wave a wand and make the pain go away. I hear you. I do want you to think of this scenario with roles reversed – let’s say you were away and he tried contacting you in a friendly manner, just wanting to check in to see how you are after all the divorce, bereavement, etc. Would you have time to send a quick message back to someone you care for who is worried about you? To reassure them it’s not about them, you just need space? I think the fact you say he is ignoring you already tells us what your gut is feeling. Listen to this warning!
Further, in your previous post you do mention that you are not together but have not had a falling out. Perhaps he feels he does not owe you anything at this point because you are not together.
Whatever the reason though, it sounds like he is off sorting out his life, and as hard as it is to believe right now, this sorting out does not include you. You should use this time to take care of you. Work on yourself and take care of your own life and heart. If he comes back and explains himself, so be it, but don’t put your life on hold for him for that “maybe” possibility. Big hugs to you dear.
Hello Miss Nat,
I’m a little late to the game on this one but just thought I’d say thank you for posting such a beautiful and important post and video. This is something that so many people (and I do believe predominantly women) need to hear. Since I learned this lesson (and to this day continue to reinforce it daily) you’re right: a whole new world HAS opened up for me. A world where I feel safe and secure in the knowledge that I have my own back and won’t be selling myself down the river for some fool. I sleep well at night.
I sincerely hope that you reflect on what a powerful legacy you are leaving your daughters, Nat. You should be very proud of the work you do.
Much love,
Revs
Lupie,
I’m so sorry.
It was not you.
I know how it feels to think you’ve found the one for you.
What an awful time you are going through right now. Please seek a helpful shoulder that you can cry and let your heart out to. Speak to a trusted friend in your life. Sharing this will help you.
As for the man, he will get his comeuppance – karma is a bitch for sure! ????
You do not need to tell his wife. Feel your man and take the time to heal.
He will get what he deserves.
Bxx
*feel your pain
Sorry loads of typos in that!
Update: you were right, he doesn’t care at all. Blocked me on all social media. I havnt even been crazy and sent a ton of messages so I’ve really no idea why it was called for. Gave me reassurance that even when I handle myself well men can still be jerks. I listened to this guy for 4 months talk about his wife leaving him, his mum dying, her partner cheating on her, a legal batte with his mums ex. I supported his decision to leave and go travelling despite having an 89 yr old father who would probably like him around. And then he disappears off the face of the earth and shuts me out like I never existed. Seems he was using me for companionship when it suited.
I’m starting to wonder if this is normal behaviour? It has happened to me with pretty much every guy I’ve dated. When did this become acceptable?
This sounds exactly like mine Yoyo, and despite knowing I’m better off if that’s the way they treat people that help them and care for them, I still can’t get over it, arghh! This place is a help though, and we’ve already made efforts to move on so hopefully we won’t give over as much of ourselves next time and love ourselves first and foremost!
Yoyo – I only saw your update now after replying to your previous comment. I’m sorry this happened to you. It’s the worst feeling when you know you did your best and you still encountered a jerk. I felt that earlier this year. But the good news is that you now know exactly who he is and what is going on, and in turn you can move on with your life too. You do mention that the way this guy used you for companionship has happened to you with most guys you’ve dated. I’d suggest reflecting on what the similarities were between these guys to see if there’s any signs you can pick up on if you were to encounter someone similar in the future. That way, you can cut them off earlier before the emotional investment. But most importantly for now, take care of you. The right guy will appreciate your support and won’t take advantage of it. All the best.
And I agree with Boo I have faith that Karma will get its return. I hope one day all these jerks stop and reflect in what shoddy behaviour they have displayed and the effect it can have on someone whether they have low self esteem or not.
This has really struck home for me. Thank you Natalie for your inspirational blogs.
I am now going through the process of realising that he is not treating me with love, care, trust and respect and giving me crumbs when I know that I deserve, as we all should in a healthy relationship, be it a man or woman.
It is going to be a difficult process but I shall keep watching your video whenever doubts crop up. We were friends for 9 years before he expressed his feelings towards me, has now divorced but is now saying he wants to be friends and I have made excuses for him too many times. I have to continue with the no contact rule, delete his contacts, stop looking at his Facebook page and love, care, trust and respect myself on this journey of enlightenment!!
Thank you again, Natalie ????
Hi,
I’ve posted on here various times over the past few years and here I am again. I’ve moved to Paris – jacked in my career in England, got a scholarship on a MA and moved to Paris. Been feeling great – no dramas, just making some nice friends and studying. Until now. Met a guy back in November, an aid worker, maybe I’ve mentioned him before. he was back on r&r a couple of weeks ago. We slept together, despite his barely-ever communications during the previous few months. Now he’s gone again. Got an email the day he got back to the field, I replied ‘I miss you’. Nothing. That was a week ago. So, here I am setting myself up with EU men, just in a different country. Ihave the phone number of my dad who disappeared 10 years ago, and I’m too scared to call it – I know my dad is the reason for all my crap men-decisions. I’d like counselling, but I can’t afford it. So I feel stuck. Sad, Lonely, Stuck. Please help. My sensitivity around rejection is not feleing good. A male friend visited this weekend, and we didn’t end up meeting the morning before he left, because time ran away with him – I have taken this very personally – i can’t even work out if that’s reasonable or not. I’m feeling all over the place.
I am to the point where really the only cure for bad men hangovers and the only way to prevent yourself from entering into something that destroys your sense of self is to face whatever you have been avoiding.
What was I avoiding with my ex? At the time we met, I was settling in a subpar job which felt like a slow burning hell inside. I was living with my family who are violent and cruel. I was denying every fiber in my being that I am made to be a musician and artist.
Now. Three years later I haven’t gone back (to the ex or vile family), I am an award winning artist and pursuing music. No, none of it has been easy. (I also needed help for drug and alcohol addiction–which I sought.)
Yes, it’s so much easier to let these guys distract us with their bullshit in the short term, but you pay with your life. Don’t waste your life on people who really don’t give a damn about you.
Start giving a damn about yourself.
Peanut,
your reply hit home, boy, did it hit home.
I was thinking I never wanted to leave him because of what I was leaving him to return to it all by myself. I kept thinking, I want to move on, but move on to what??
I mean all the stuff was there when he was in my life, but his bullshit distracted me from acknowledging the areas of my life I was unhappy with. Then I became extremely unhappy with him and it all became too much.
WOW.
Starr
Peanut, I remember your posts from 1,5 years ago and earlier. Wow, you have changed so much! I can’t recognize you:) It is so awesome!
I agree with you so much about us avoiding dealing with real problems in our internal and external lives by getting involved with people who offer us distraction by their unavailability, commitment issues, stringing us along. All my life that is what I had been doing and only recently did I wake up realizing that I had been running from myself all this time. Now I am sorting through all kind of stuff, from childhood to career issues. The issues that had been avoided are resurfacing and I tackle them, cry through them, fix them, improve them as I go. Lots of repair and reconstruction this and last year.
I am really so happy for you:) You are an inspiration!!
“Yes, it’s so much easier to let these guys distract us with their bullshit in the short term, but you pay with your life. Don’t waste your life on people who really don’t give a damn about you.
Start giving a damn about yourself.”
Thank you, Peanut. Maybe we get stuck believing, hoping, looking for proof that they DO care. We shouldn’t have to search for proof. Once that tide of pain rolls in, it washes away those hopes. Feeling that pain is so telling, so why do we try to excuse it?
Hi Shyner
Sorry you feel this way. I’d say try to see the positive, you are at least now able to recognise that you are chasing EU men. This is a step in the right direction, even if there is some way to go. Be kind to yourself and realise that attraction is attraction, we can’t help being attracted to these people and you have to give people a chance because not all will let us down. What you need to do now is cut contact, no more attempts because THAT is where we are very responsible for self sabotage.
As for your friend you are obviously feeling fragile at the moment and wanted to see your friend, if you’d been in a better place maybe you wouldn’t feel so hurt. It won’t be a personal thing sometimes other things do get in the way. Hope you feel better soon.
Yoyo
That’s such a nice reply – thank you. I really appreciate it.
Also, we can’t have faith in karma; we must have faith in ourselves.
I have seen icky people live fantastic lives. We must count on ourselves to get us to neutrality.
d,
Keep working on you and you will see the good guys for what they are: good. They are like a breath of fresh air in a stagnant cesspool of shadiness. When you work hard for a good, honest life with sincerity at the forefront, you will be damned before you let someone take it away so easily (which is what all unavailable men inevitably do).
Peanut, I feel like my sincerity is a big ol waving flag for the creeps of the world. Like it puts a target on my back. I find myself guarding it more.
Wow, somehow only just found this site, but I can see it being a massive help already what with the amazing advice from Nat & the community; I thought I was different! This post in particular speaks so many truths that I recognise.
After a tonne of horrible experiences dating/in relationships, I started seeing someone who I thought was different & seemed really in to me. He had told me he hadn’t long got out of a relationship when I asked, but said it didn’t count as it was only for 2 weeks before the guy went off with someone else. He was in the middle of switching uni’s as he told me he wanted to do something different. We would speak every day & he was the needy one, asking why I was absent if I didn’t instantly reply; & I would help him with a lot. He would kiss me first alot of the time out of the blue as well. When I broached the subject of making it official after a month or so, he said his head was a bit muddled atm, & so I said did that mean it would never happen, as I couldn’t go on doing what we were doing otherwise, & he said that no he could see it going that way in a month or so. We agreed to continue as we had, with my caveat that it was just me & him; he’d already told me he wasn’t on the apps any more after I asked him, but I started to worry as I saw him add other people on facebook.
He went ultra needy after that for a few days, but would always back down from his own suggestions to meet up. Then he went really quiet. I brought it up & told him my feelings for him again, & he said he was worried he had a personality disorder, but invited me to stay with him again, & I took him to the doctors etc. He then went back to being quiet before getting in touch to say he couldn’t do it any more, that I was lovely but that he needed to sort his head out (but it was that & not me). We continued to talk, & I saw it as him coming back to me once he came to terms with what he had, but he would get short-tempered with me if I started it, but then seemingly change when he wanted to.
Then one night he started talking to me about how bad he was feeling & used me as his counselor for 1 1/2 hours; telling me he had drove away his ex by being horrible to him (& the other before that), & he had changed uni’s because of the pain of this failed 2 week relationship he had had (they didn’t meet there). He then asked why I was being so nice to him when he had been horrible to me, & that he had slept with someone 2 days ago. We had a blazing row, & he told me there was nothing special between us & he talks to everyone like he did me; he denied ever saying it would be a relationship in a month or so, & when I showed him that text, he said he clearly didn’t mean it. That was back in January, & I messaged him a few more times in March to see if he had got diagnosed, & he apparently had as bipolar (no excuse though). I then went NC, but it pains me that he could be out getting in a relationship with someone else & doesn’t want to talk anymore; I’m better than needing crumbs! This place, along with the other steps I’m taking, will hopefully help though!
I found Nat’s site about 2.5 years ago. I had just walked away from a guy who was starting to be more cold than hot. I decided I couldn’t take it anymore. Then I went reeling into a world of depression and suicidal thoughts. I really feel like in addition to my circle of trust friends and family that Baggage Reclaim saved my life. I purchased NC Rule, the Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, and Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship. I use them as reference guides EXCEPT recently. Around March, I met an Assclown. Let’s call him Lucifer. He is exactly like him – charming, funny, attractive, and evil. I found myself in the same downward spiral of delusion, irrational thinking, letting my emotions make me their bitch, acting bat shit crazy et all. Well naturally he says things like “I’m emotionally unavailable but I love you.” Right? So I agreed ( bad idea) to see him last night where he stood me up for the 4th time in 3 months. Yes there never should have been a second time. I feel completely foolish and embarrassed for putting my dignity aside for just one moment let alone 3 months. The lesson is No Contact always works. And we have to remember it even once we’re years out from the person or experience that brought us here initially. Nat this is exactly what I needed. Thank you for putting me back on track.
Sophia,
I know it takes time to learn. However, you are learning and growing. The difference now is that you are walking away and going NC. Back then you would have stretched this out in a year plus and damaged yourself much more. You are doing a great job recognizing all this much earlier and listening to yourself. Don’t beat yourself up for giving him more chances. You won’t next time with another person like him. NC and block the person. I applied my standards and practiced BR knowledge after the third (and last date) couple months ago. 2-3 years ago I would have gotten into a relationship with that guy and gone through a hell cycle because of my own fault. If I met this man now, I would have ended it after that very first date. Actually, I wouldn’t have even met him for the first date. Too many red flags beforehand.
It takes time. You are moving in the right direction! Keep rereading BR and the books you have!
Sofia,
Cool name! 😉 Thanks for the kind words. It’s hard when I make a mistake like not sticking with no contact because I am somewhat of a perfectionist. Also, about 2 weeks ago I decided to go no contact with my ex-fiancee who I thought was a friend and a guy I dated last year in winter. Meeting assclown after assclown has left me weary and emotionally spent. I have decided to stop dating altogether at least for the near future.
A very timely post for me. I definitely need to start treating myself with a lot of love, care, trust and respect. Setting standards was exactly what I was looking for. I would like to see more such posts on how does self love and self respect look like in practice, esp. at a time when going through tough times.