Trust is fundamental to all of your relationships. Too little, and it colours your vision and taints all of your interactions causing you to live in fear and cynicism. Too much, and it’s like operating blind, deaf, and dumb, running red lights, jumping in cages with wild animals, and being access all areas.
Whichever extreme you’re at will put you in the frontline of people who seek to take the mick by at best taking advantage and at worst abusing you. When you’re distrusting, they’ll likely work overtime to charm you or play mind games where you end up doubting yourself, and when you’re too trusting, they recognise your lack of reality and due care to yourself and exploit it.
Trust is about having faith not just in others but also in yourself. It requires you to have a reasonable level of self-esteem because it means that in being confident and knowing and acting like you’re a person of value that’s worthwhile, you’ll trust yourself.
What does trusting yourself involve? It means that you listen to you, don’t second guess your judgement or deny, rationalise, or minimise what you see, hear, and do. It means that even in the face of discovering difficult information and having to make uncomfortable decisions, that you’ll act in your best interests and suffer the short-term pain in recognition of the medium to long-term hangover that arises when you’re unwilling to trust your judgement, accept the signs, and admit you’ve made a mistake and do something about it.
Trust is also about using past information to form a basis for recognising situations where you shouldn’t be so trusting.
Unfortunately, what many people do is go “Oh, I experienced X,Y,Z in the past so shag it, I’m not trusting anything or anyone because it’s a big bad world out there and there’s obviously something wrong with me why all of these things happened.” The other thing that many people engage in is relationship insanity – having past experience as an indicator of what happens and then carrying the same baggage, beliefs, and behaviours, getting involved with same people different package or similar situations and then expecting different results.
In actual fact, the information gained from past experience is there to help you build up your confidence and judgement because the fact is, we all make mistakes.
We’ve all misjudged people, been too trusting, made decisions we regret, been slow to accept that something is patently wrong for us and at times been naive. Only the deeply arrogant and narcissistic ‘don’t make mistakes’ (read: they do make mistakes but don’t admit it under any circumstances or if they do, they say it wasn’t their fault).
At the other end of the spectrum, people who don’t think they’re ‘good enough’ take mistakes very much to heart. It was recognising that my past experiences, my mistakes, my so-called ‘failures’, my shiver my cringing timbers moments were not the bone crushing, doom and gloom that I had always believed them to be and instead using them as a springboard for personal growth, that was incredibly freeing for me.
It’s very easy to look at things you wish you’d done differently or that have come to hurt you from the wrong perspective – the perspective that traps you in blame and shame, believing you’re not good enough, or feeling wary of trusting yourself in the future.
Fact is, if you have any intention whatsoever of moving forward, you have to take that leap of faith on you and equip yourself to not only learn to trust yourself but to be able to recognise when something isn’t working for you.
The answer isn’t to trust nobody; it’s to roll back when it becomes apparent that your trust is misplaced.
The answer isn’t to put up a fortress but is is about being more choosy about the company you keep.
The answer isn’t to never date again but it is about forcing yourself out of being led by your libido or your imagination and being committed to stepping back or opting out when reality bites.
The answer isn’t to stop trusting yourself because it means you won’t trust anyone. Instead, it is trusting yourself and not disregarding ‘feedback’ from people and situations in favour of trying to be the exception.
The times that have been the most frustrating for me is recognising that I did know that something was wrong and that I let myself down – I can handle bad news now that I know I’m willing to deliver it in a timely manner to myself.
Keep your feet firmly in reality so that you can use the reliability of consistent previous experience combined with knowledge of what makes you uncomfortable, healthy boundaries, and code amber and red behaviour to help guide you.
I have a simple guideline for trust that ensures that you operate with your eyes and ears open, stop, look and listen for any discomfort, and adjust your trust levels and any subsequent interaction accordingly:
Start out with a reasonable level of trust with an awareness of code amber and red behaviour and a solid knowledge of what does and doesn’t work for you etc, and based on what you experience, you either increase your trust (PLUS) or pause (STOP, LOOK, LISTEN AND DON’T PROCEED UNTIL COMFORTABLE) or roll back (MINUS – ADDRESS AND/OR OPT OUT) when you have concerns.
Don’t use blind assumptions to navigate life or pull the “Well if it were me, I’d do such and such” because you will be blinded and bewildered when people act differently. Instead, yes you can initially take someone or something at face value but then you use your interactions and how you feel as building blocks for creating a fuller, more realistic picture.
When you operate with a reasonable level of trust and aren’t giving it out willy nilly, you want to have authentic relationships so you won’t fear asking someone what their relationship status is or making sure that their actions and words match up – you won’t get carried away and will be reliant on consistency.
Yes, you may find that some people and situations don’t turn out to be what you think they were but that’s life – operate with these trust guidelines and you’re unlikely to find yourself discovering that they’re attached after you’ve started developing feelings for or even shagged them. You could only ever discover this information by putting in some effort into the discovery.
It’s not about everyone ‘proving’ themselves to you. You’re an equal participant in your interactions so you have to trust to a reasonable level to be able to gauge whether to proceed or not. If you didn’t trust somewhat, you wouldn’t know if your perception is down to paranoia and if you trust too much, you can’t tell fact from fiction.
You have to ‘put out’ some trust, to learn to trust and then learn from any positive or negative ‘feedback’ that you receive.
Your confidence will build because not only will your self-esteem improve from not staying in situations long past their sell by dates and giving yourself a pat on the back for managing damage control, but because you’re taking action, it boosts your self-esteem because you know you’re acting in your best interests.
You’re also free to get on with enjoying relationships romantic and otherwise with people that consistently show that you have a mutually fulfilling relationship instead of having to second guess it.
Without trust, there is no relationship and that includes pseudo trust built on false promises, denial, fear, hot air and sandcastles in the sky so learn to trust yourself. Life is an ongoing journey that serves us lessons to teach and guide us and will keep serving you up the same lessons until you trust the positive and ‘feedback’ from your life and take action.
Your thoughts?
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oh jeez..I was covering this exact issue in my feelings diary throughout this evening and I had a sudden amazing yet very dissapointing memory.
I have been bullied in school from the age of 7-8 until I was 15. That was harsh and I’ll never quite know why, and i did stop trying to figure it out.
But I suddenly remembered my mother saying I had to stop asking so much of other people for they felt stressed out by me and not wanting to be around me. All good when you’re an adolescent, but hearing this as a child, I realise now that I feel anxious about new people I meet because I feel like I’m going to stress them out with my needy personality. I only came to realise just now, it’s not so much that I’m so needy (because since adolescense, I even feel anxious about calling somebody to ask to go out or have a coffee) but my mother should have stressed on the fact I wanted attention from the wrong people. If people don’t want to give you attention, they’re not ‘your’ kind of people. I build a huge mistrust in my own judgement, now not knowing if I can trust my gut and they are just unavailables (I think those certain people in my life actualy are) or if I’m just creeping them out for wanting too much.
I’m constantly second guessing my trust towards them.
The girl that invited me to stay with her for a month after I left my EUM, since I moved out her place I see her reguraly, but she never calls or texts, and she never asks me how I’m feeling. Every time I talk to her I have to bring the EUM topic into the conversation, because I really need to talk about this right now. I’m having wild trust issues with her she doesn’t even know about because I’m here thinking I’m being to needy with her. I can honestly say, that in the midst of this turbulant NC time, this is also wearing me down, like I’m wearing clothes under water and every move is heavy and slow.
Sofie…I understand what you are going through regarding really needing to talk about your breakup. After my break up that was ALL I wanted to talk about and I know my friends got tired of listening. You mentioned a feelings diary…I encourage you to keep writing. I have been journaling for years and find it so beneficial. When something is weighing heavily on my mind I journal about it and then feel that I can put those thoughts aside for a while. Also I read entries from the previous month or year and see how I’ve grown…or sometimes how I haven’t and it helps me to refocus on what I need to work on. Also, get some professional counseling, this has helped me tremendously. First of all the counselor has to listen because you are paying him/her to listen 🙂 but also you will work through so many issues that have been with you since your childhood and that’s where your healing will come from. Once you get some clarity about why you do what you do and learn about respecting yourself and get some boundaries and non-negotiables in place, you will be better equipped for your next relationship.
I was just realizing this fact today Nat, Self-Esteem has so much to do with this it really does.
Brenda, I agree; people with really healthy sense of their own values and self worth – good self-esteem – have in-built boundaries; they are on auto-pilot so to speak; they put out some trust but pull it right back at first sign of danger. But even so, we all make errors in judgement and should be careful, not fearful, just careful. The self esteem issue is a crucial one; the only reason I have “re-adjusted” (better late than never!) and stayed NC for so long now is cos I could see, thanks to reading Nat and BR, for the first time ever WHY I was putting up with less than I knew I should deserve. I thought it was because I looovvvved him soooo much. Nope. It was because I didn’t love myself enough. Of course it’s not easy to just start loving yourself more… but if we remember that “love” is a *doing word* (a verb), so you simply ACT in the manner of someone who cares about herself and your actions seem to inform your head (we are what we do, or something like that); I put out waaaayyy too much trust in the EUM even when I saw more flags than are flying at the UN! Now I am claiming it back – all of it – for me; and so I find that I like and trust myself more now too! I don’t know how well I could apply all this in a new relationship, cos I’m not looking for one. But for now, it’s working with the ex EUM.
What perfect timing! As usual…
What do you do when your instinct says a man is pulling away from you, and you really want to reignite his desire to spend more time with you? If you talk to him, doesn’t that shout ‘needy’? And if you back off, or act cool, doesn’t that make him think you’re no longer interested? Not all men chase – some are just as fearful of rejection, and will test the water with an innocuous text rather than being proactive about meeting up. My man has sporadic ‘cold spells’ where he’ll touch base almost daily with texts, calls, and emails – witty banter but no dates, then have a ‘heatwave’ where he can’t get enough of me. The only ‘cold’ aspect of the cold spell is not seeing eachother for a month, which drives me insane. My instincts are utterly confused, and fluctuate between thinking he’s just using me, or he’s doing the ‘rubber band’ pulling back after intimacy thing. What should I do?
you spend more time with you.
Crazybaby,
When we say he goes ‘cold’ what we can mean is that he simply doesn’t see us for a month! What else is that? Hot? (oh yes, mine was never ‘cold’ TO me on his emails/texts and (less so) phone calls so long as I didn’t complain about him not seeing me for a month!! (And more than))
Try reading Nat’s stuff on Mr Unavailable. He’s EU. His blowing hot and cold is him managing your expectations, the level of interaction and intimacy and manoevering you into option status. He already KNOWS you are interested. You are trying to make excuses for HIS lack of consistent interest. There are many red flags flying around here that you are trying to paint a different colour, so take Nat’s advice here “to roll back when it becomes apparent that your trust is misplaced”. It is apparent. Read Nat’s post here again too – I think you are at the stage where you could be avoiding disaster with this guy by “adjusting accordingly”, yet you are thinking it might be a good idea to “re-ignite his interest”. No, that’s adjusting in the wrong direction! Step away. I can tell you through long and difficult experience that trying to convince an EUM that you are worth more than this hot and cold crap does NOT work. Convince yourself! That’s what you should do.
Hi Crazybaby,
reading your post….I see flags waving all over the place. If his way of communicating and lack of personal contact is driving you insane that means it`s simply wrong for you . It would be wrong for me. As Natalie says, TRUST YOURSELF and your gut and you feel extremely uncomfortable. You ARE showing plenty of interest in him by responding to all this (lazy-red flag) communication and seeing him when he goes through the hot stage,so he has no reason to be wondering and having “shyness” attacks. It looks very much like relationship on his terms, and you are twisting yourself to accomodate him, and all that twisting hurts. I did a similar thing in my last relationship, and became a doormat. My protests were met with mostly “you are needy, you have trust issues ect” I was always trying to prove myself/my interest in him, and worried about his feelings instead of worrying about mine, he didn`t reciprocate.I now believe, if a man is interested, you will have no doubt whatsoever, and he will want to see you as much as he can. He doesn`t need to give up the rest of his life, but you will be included in it and feel like a priority.Which will make you feel loved and wanted, and not wondering and analysing. In my relationship I practically felt the need to run an opinion poll; am I too needy and controlling by not being happy for him to go out drinking with his ex or having her over for drinks till 3 am at his place ( because he is nice and civilised and they are neighbours now and there is nothing happening between them and he doesn`t even like her, she is horrible and boring, and he is just being polite). First time I came over to his place she was stood in her front garden watching me arrive and watching me leave, but that was because she is curious. And he didn`t know if he could live with the fact that I don`t trust him, and wanted to leave me because of that ( now I wish he had). He also tried very hard for her and I not to meet- he said he felt uncomfortable. Fact that I felt uncomfortable was neither here nor there.
I don`t believe in the rubber band theory, would they be happy if we rubber-banded? I don`t think so.
You can also simply ask him why, face to face and see if you get a straight answer. And then you can see how you feel about that answer. I wish you strenth xxx
Crazy Baby,
Does he live close? If yes, then I would dump him, he is very manipulative!
It doesn’t sound like you’re happy with this arrangement, so what keeps you there?
How long have you been together?
I think this rubber band nonsense is a load of bull. If a guy doesn’t want to see you for a month, i’m afraid it means he’s not that interested in you. It’s nothing to do with you and says nothing about your value, but it does say an awful lot about him. He doesn’t appreciate how wonderful you are – if he really valued you, he would not dare go for a whole month without seeing you. He thinks it is perfectly ok to keep you hanging around for his own selfish needs, even though he is quite aware that he has limited interest in being with you. Is that ok with you? It doesn’t sound like it is, but by hanging around you’re telling him, by your actions, that it’s perfectly alright for him to treat you this way. If the situation is driving you crazy, why aren’t you voting with your feet? Why are you still an option for him?
Like the post says – we have to take care of ourselves. He is not considering your needs and your feelings, so you are going to have to have to make yourself a priority. This man’s only priority is himself.
crazyb
I’m not sure why you see the rubber band thing as a better option. God forbid if you were to have a baby with him, he’d be rubberbanding himself halfway across the globe.
He just doesn’t want a proper relationship with you (or anyone to be fair). He likes having a girl around for female company, sex, attention, when he feels like it. It’s like a Nintendo Wii. I’d get it out every now and then but I don’t want to play on it every day.
It sounds bizarre, but you can trust your confusion. Confusion is the no. 1, gold (well crappy gilt) star sign that you’re dealing with a man whose interest is inconsistent, half-hearted and only “for now”. “For now” could be 6 months, 6 years or half a century. You’ll always feel when he walks out the door “I wonder if he’s coming back.”. I expect that’s how Jerry Hall felt with Mick Jagger even after 20 years and children … I wonder if he’s coming back? And one day he didn’t.
Grace,
Like the Nintendo wii analogy. I always think of it like I was the holiday resort – nice place to visit now and again but wouldn’t want to live there.
Great article – it makes me think of Evolution of trust in intimate relationship. It’s hard and with EUMs/ACs you just never know where you stand. In the beginning of my recent relationship, my exEUM really worked hard to woe me and earn my trust. I remember that he often asked me how I felt about him. I didn’t know how to respond because he was fresh out of divorce, two kids and I just wasn’t sure where it was going. Yet, he worked overtime on me… silly text messages, long conversations, and going out. Three months into our relationship, I felt comfortable about revealing some of my insecurities, secrets …. Interestingly, the more I was trusting the more distant he became. He started to pull back saying “ We are both not ready for a serious relationship”. He even called me “volatile” and “unstable”. Anyways, 2 weeks ago I found his profile on dating website. We talked about it and he turned it into a joke. For me that was the end of it. I am on one week NC and going strong, ladies.
My post got sent prematurely. I really like this post. One of my biggest challenges was trusting myself. The way you spell it out makes the concept easier to understand. Its really getting to an authentic relationship with who you are bc I know I was very out of touch with who I am. Learning and gaining awareness of being healthy as a person also was part of the process, you helped us with identying unhealthy behaviors and us getting preparred to what we will and will not accept.
AMEN!! “A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in settings of silver.” Proverbs 25 Thank-you Natalie for your encouraging words.:D
i used to trust my gut feelings very much and most of the time i was right ……..but with the AC i didnt listen to these feelings……
i was completely in denial
sometimes i still feel in shock about how i was blinded and did not want to see those red flags everywhere
when i look back now i get really sad about myself that i didnt trust myself anymore…….
i can see him and his actions and his sweet words objectively and i know i was completely under his control and manipulated……if somebody would have told me before i would fall for such a guy i would have laughed out loud ……..i would have felt there was something wrong and i would have listen to my instinct feelings……..
but when he came in the picture i just didnt listen……..
and i still dont know why
i need to trust my feelings again cause actually they never lied to me before………
trust is a great gift to other people if they are trustworthy but the best is to trust yourself
Wow, Simone !! I am thinking the same!! Red flags were everywhere from the early beginning with my ex EUM. I was completely oblivious. We must not forget that EUMs/ACs are masters of deception. They twist the truth, they turn tables against you and they have no problems lying. Right now, I am in so much in disbelief.
Yes, but we also choose to ignore the red flags. We are half of the problem!
“Without trust, there is no relationship and that includes pseudo trust built on false promises, denial, fear, hot air and sandcastles in the sky so learn to trust yourself. Life is an ongoing journey that serves us lessons to teach and guide us and will keep serving you up the same lessons until you trust the positive and ‘feedback’ from your life and take action.”
Absolutely agree with that statement Natalie, and the rest is excellent as usual.
many many people think Love makes a relationship. When actual it is Trust that is at the core of any relationship. And if we do not have Trust in our selves. How are we ever going to have trust in others?
But it is not to Trust blindly……….People lie and deceive or are afraid to show the true nature of themselves.
So with Trust I would add…………..Also be “Discerning.” If You have doubts, listen to Yourself and don’t go of into cloud cookoo land. And never be afraid to ask questions. If a person is Confident about themselves, they will answer openly. Just never make it an interrogation!
Trust is a very great quality to possess, but so is being wise in discerning in who you share that Trust with.
“If you do not tell the truth about yourself and trust yourself, be Authentic. You cannot tell it about other people.”
Great Post as ever Natalie.
Enjoy a lovely day.
Amour
AF
This is all very true. I guess the question I have is: HOW do you stop yourself from developing feelings for someone too early and then finding out it isn’t going to happen for whatever reason? I obviously understand how you can stop yourself from shagging someone, but developing feelings really does seem to just happen. Will this stop happening too early as my self-esteem improves, or is there something I can do in the meantime? Thoughts?
I have a sneaking suspicion that those premature feelings come with premature physical involvement? 🙂 Just a guess, based on experience.
I see why you say that as I have had those experiences too, but actually not necessarily. I’m doing my best to keep my mind from working overtime thinking about someone until I really know him well (including those I’ve not been physically intimate with) but it’s like I don’t even know what else to think about, even though I am really busy! What do you think about that? Am I totally weird?
Jennifer, You must allow your mind and your heart to work together…feelings just ARE but how you act on them is KEY. Read through this blog…lots of articles and posts with apt info and loaded with tools…I believe that you will find your answers within this site…plus download Nat’s books!
Great post Nat, It seems to be no matter what has happened in the past all I need to do is learn from my journey and trust myself. If I trust myself and build confidence then im well equipped which gives me the freedom to trust and interact. I agree with this completely and I’m working on that. My problem seems to be that right now I don’t have much respect for men, at work, friends, old partners, Dad and bosses.
I find myself constantly thinking “knuckleheads, idiots, control freaks, arrogant, sexist, jerks”
It feels like I don’t really like them anymore………..because I feel like their idiots!!!
I know that sounds bad but its how I feel right now.
Any male annoys me and feels like an imposition. I just don’t think i have anything to give to males any more. I figure ive been dating for over 20 years and basically its not all its cracked up to be. So im focussing on me, i start my masters in one month, saving for a holiday, working out and challenging myself physically, painting and trying to climb the career ladder. Do i have a problem?
You are angry…keep processing…work through it and realise where it comes from. Disappointment and disillusionment sound like a big part of it…anger often comes disguising sadness. The work you are doing in your outer life towards your master’s is awesome. Your inner work is another story that takes time and effort as well. Trust is a big factor in all that we do. Don’t give up on yourself or the males; just be prepared for the jerks and flushing…there are good people of both sexes. I think for you, your inner work needs doing before you will see things differently in the outer world.
This is a good topic for me, as I am trying to decide if I am really ready to date again. Trust plays a big part in it, not only trust in opening up to a new person, but trusting myself to judge well enough to pick a good person, as my track record has been terrible. LOL
I think I am more afraid of trusting my own judgment. I am afraid of allowing myself to get hurt again. Which is why I probably won’t start dating again, even though I feel like I am ready to. I always have seemed to pick the wrong relationships, simply because I was a mess.
I don’t think I am a mess anymore, but then again, I thought that in the past . In the past, I thought I would never pick the wrong man again – yet bam over again it happened.
Trusting myself and believing in myself is the hardest part.
“Trusting myself and believing in myself is the hardest part.” (Barbara Doduk)
Ditto. It all stems from childhood for me. My parents… 😐 It’s taken me a while, but it’ll happen for me….. and it’ll happen for you too. 🙂
Spinster, yes, I know one day I might feel complete. LOL I believe growth is a life long journey. I also know that I did pick up some really terrible habits from the bad relationship-role-models I had growing up.
It’s hard to open your heart to someone when your in the process of healing from a broken heart.
Amy, when someone is in the process of healing they are a transitional and should not be seeking a relationship…healing takes time….it isn’t something that occurs without the work of the grieving.
Last weekend, during a ferry ride, I’ve chatted up a handsome guy (in spite of my ongoing dating hiatus). From the outset, I thought “well, he’s traveling together with a couple and might therefore be single, but he seems quite EUM. Besides, I’m probably still quite EUW too”. Anyway, now I’m somewhat frustrated that he didn’t ask me for my phone number (although I didn’t ask him for his either). This damn ego of mine, lol.
Obvious case of rejection, right? He’s just not that interested, or he is EUM, or both. On the other hand, maybe I’m wrong. Our chat was brief but nice, and I might be more lucky if I tried to meet him again “by chance” (there are possibilities).
But then… Wasn’t I on a dating hiatus? Frankly, for various reasons (both emotional and practical ones – I’m soon going to move to another country) this would probably never lead to a relationship. If I continued pursuing him anyway and had success, I wouldn’t be any better than all those EUM out there.
Elly, stop BSing yourself. You’re the one who isn’t available – no matter whether he is.
Hi Nat,
I want to tell you the coincidences don’t just end with your uncanny ability to see into our private lives! You are also echoing the mental health professionals. I just finished reading The Sociopath next door : the ruthless versus the rest of us by Martha Stout. See, she has a chapter on how to deal with your everyday sociopath in thirteen points. I was thinking of you and BR because you have written in your ebook and blogged about everything she recommends. So, on today’s topic, her rule number 2 is to trust yourself and your instinct over social appearances; Number 3 is the rule of threes: three broken promises means a liar, cut your losses and get out. Sounds familiar, yay! No. 12, “Defend your psyche”, is essentially what you just wrote here about not having too little trust in people after being traumatized by a manipulative person. She says roughly, do not allow someone without a conscience (or even a string of such people) to lose your faith in humanity. Most human beings do possess a conscience. Most human beings are able to love.
It’s a great book, highly recommended to anyone who feels taken advantage of by persons of little remorse (assclowns in our terminology) who apparently constitute 4% of the population. Who knew. Or else just keep reading BR, the insights are all the same and hey, Nat, your language and imagery are more colorful 🙂
Can you -other BR readers- think of books you’ve found helpful? My other one I’m trying to finish now is titled Mistakes have been made (but not by us). That one’s on self-justification and rationalizations. Another eye opener… on how we trick ourselves into doing things that are obviously not right or in our best interest. Guilty as charged, but so are most people!
Cave,
I think we have to be very careful when we are throwing terms around. A very small percentage of the population are sociopathic, and I would think it unlikely that the majority of men discussed on this forum fit that title. We get so focused trying to understand the behavior that we must attach some specific syndrome on these fools, so that we may lessen the responsibility on ourselves. I think that Nat would like us to focus on us because if we make the ACs carry the load, we will fail to recognize our complicity and make change.
Allison
Nat does focus on us but she doesn’t let the men (or women) who are hurting us off the hook either. I like that balance very much. When I came here I had no idea what was going on, I thought it was just part of relationships (though I had an inkling it wasn’t right), then I realised my part in it, and took on ALL the blame, but when I read some of the stories here I thought … hang on, no-one should treat ANYONE like this. Now I’m further down the line I no longer feel the need to say it’s 50:50 or 70:30 or 80:20 or whatever.
Now that a lot of water has passed under the bridge I’m allowing myself to remember the player’s (very sweet) pursuit of me. A lot of women would have fallen for it. In fact, I know a lot did ha ha. As someone said a while ago – they don’t come with a sign on their heads.
As for sociopaths, I’m not a mental health professional but some of us are DEFINITELY dealing with men who are dangerous (physical abusers, conmen, criminals). Recognising that doesn’t make us any less responsible for our own safety though. The sociopath (or whatever he/she is) isn’t going to help you out. You have to do it yourself (maybe with outside assistance).
I don’t disagree with you, btw, just thinking around this topic.
As for trust, once you’ve been through this experience and HEALED properly (which can take a while), you’re not afraid to put yourself out there. The likelihood is that a) you make better choices and b) you have the safety net of knowing that even if you fell in love but had to walk away, you’d get over it. You did it before. And you would’t be some heartbroken, damaged thing with no more chances, you’d still be a fabulous person with a lot to offer.
Trouble is, I’m so content with my single life I could be 70 before I’m ready to date. Hope there are some decent men in the retirement complex!
Grace,
I don’t think you’ll have a problem meeting someone in the retirement village 🙂
I agree, that the responsibility is 50/50, but I also believe if we start overanalyzing-Cave, I am not inferring you’re overanalyzing-and needing to attach a condition to men, we’re getting into a bad area. I believe this places us in victim territory and alleviates much of our own responsibility-I did the same when I was trying to understand my ex. I did not start to heal and make positive change, until I took the focus off him. That’s the point I was trying to make
Hey Allison, all points well taken. No over-analysis of any one person is necessary… yes, it can even be counterproductive, I agree! On the other hand, the use of the word sociopath in the context of this book is not exaggerated. The thesis of the book is that *most of the time* lack of empathy and conscience doesn’t come with criminal, violent, or otherwise egregious behavior: thus the figure one in twenty-five, and the description ‘next door’. (Assuming it’s even roughly correct.) So many readers here report being blindsided by treatment that just cannot be explained based on reasonable assumptions about what motivates a person, that is, trying to do the right thing and inadvertently failing as all humans do from time to time. Just food for thought. No need to get all paranoid though!
🙂
I know you’re not a fan of online dating and it’s rather freaky to met too. (And here’s the but) But, I joined a free one to see. I have made no contact with anyone yet two men the same age as my father!!! have contacted me. I immediately blocked them. Why would a man that age want to interact with someone that could be their daughter if it isn’t for sex or to try and control me? Plus, the site shows who views your profile. There were a few men my age that looked and never said anything. Then I felt myself waver. That let me know I S.T.I.L.L. have self-esteem issues. :::sigh::: Because the old “what’s wrong with me” tape blared in my thoughts. The only places I can think of to meet guys are: the library, bookstore, grocery store or somewhere like that. I do not go to pubs or to “parties.”
A “friend” of mine asks me every time I see her if I’m dating anyone yet. And I’m like why the heck is it so important that I be seeing someone?!? It’s like there is nothing else in this world that is important unless you’re with someone. Probably the area I live in too. It’s annoying. I’m at a juncture where I’m seeing if I’m ready to date, being impatient or just feeling antsy because someone bugs me about my dating status. I know I’m through with giving old pervs the time of day because I want a shot of attention. I still get burned up from time to time knowing my ex of 4 years has moved on with someone already. I figure if I were more social I’d be in a different place with the whole issue. I’m taking my time though. Before I would rush into things, anything and bust my head open each time I landed on it. Apparently this hesitation I am having is a red flag to trust myself in that I am not ready to date yet.
When I go out with my best friend she always says, “I have a feeling tonight you’ll meet Mr. Right” or something like that. I respect she merely wants me to be happy, and to find someone (she has found her husband and is happy) but at the same time it can be annoying. I usually just say I doubt it, because I am not searching. I do not project the “come hit on me” vibe. LOL I know she means well, and I know she and her hubby are like rabbits and she can’t seem to understand how I can possibly have gone this long without sex. But frankly it doesn’t cross my mind. I am too busy focusing on me, my daughter and life… at times I feel ready to date, other times not.
I have looked into the online dating thing. I don’t like the options on there. I know what I want, and I will not even consider any one much older or younger, and I will not even consider someone who lists themselves as ‘separated’. One man lied about his age and height, and I have to say, WHY? I told him that made me have a bad first impression of him, because it made him a liar from the moment we met.
The online dating thing feels so empty to me much like most internet usage does. Then I still shy away from physical relationships. I feel like I’ve missed the boat as far as making friends is concerned. I stayed to myself all throughout school and anyone I was close to moved away. Yea, definitely need to keep working at my self-esteem and confidence in social situations……it’s that I don’t TRUST people. From what I see, I trust that people will tell other people what I tell them about my life (even if it’s personal/private) and I don’t like that.
Colour orange
Yes, the ‘so are you seeing anyone?’ used to annoy me too but take heart! – once you reach a “certain age” and you’re still not dating anyone (well, in my case except for some illusive EUM Scarlet Pimpernel who was never around anyway so he didn’t count!) they just stop asking. I’m not sure which is worse: they think you are still date-able so they ask or they stop asking cos they see you as inherently, immutably single and/or too old to be of interest to a man.
I’d like to make some constructive contribution to your good post here Nat but, like Trinity above, I just don’t think I like men very much!… I appreciate that other BR ladies are trying to get to grips with knowing how to trust again and be open to new relationships while remaining safe from predators and EUM types and this is a helpful post with all the right advice… but for me… I can relate totally to Trinity: I am past caring – I have been “dating” for even more than 20 years -and like the colourorange, I don’t party or go clubbing – I am beyond all of that – I never was one for going out ‘on the pull’ anyway and I hate the idea of on-line dating; for my generation looking at the dating ads is for desperados – like a cattle market – tho I know that’s just an old fashioned take on it probably – I know I am not going to go on a man- hunt so I don’t care about who to trust and not to trust -they can all go shuv it! Like Trinity I am wondering what the hell is wrong with me?!! Cos I know I am not suppsed to feel like that! It seems easier and more comfortable to just give it all a by now – have been there, done that – was all a lot of pish… Oh dear… I have problems…or do I? Maybe just embracing my peri-menopausal hot flushes and letting it all go behind me now is what I should be doing… and what a blessed relief that would be? One less thing to worry about. I am mixed up, yes.
fearless,
I’m still pretty young yet…..but age catches up quick. In my opinion, I’ve only had one better than bad, no where near perfect relationship and all the rest were people I hooked on to because they showed me attention. I am single with no kids. It makes me sad that I’d go the rest of my life without quality companionship but if I have to in order to drop the losers, then so be it. I have a year book from high school that an old friend signed “don’t settle for less” and he was referring to the douche I was dating at the time. I don’t think I’m too picky about guys. I’m not looking for the best looking guy in town or the richest. I’ve dated brokes, ugly guys and everything else in between. I’d like a good guy that freaking can tell me the truth and can grow intimately with me. I’m tired of settling for assclowns and unavailables. But it’s like the world is swamped with them!!!
Oh Fearless, “I’m not going on a man-hunt so I don’t care who to trust or not trust” this didn’t resonate with the Fearless I’ve come to know on this site…just a wee bad mood perhaps? Trust : to trust or not to trust is something we need to ascertain in all associations/relationships imo…and I like to think of it as we learn who we can trust for what and we adust that as we learn in situations/context…
Yes, Leisha… I see! I don’t have many issues in other relationships – I am pretty good at holding my own and pulling back from people when I think they are demanding too much! I am the type who doesn’t answer my phone if I’m too tired to deal with any more issues that day! I’m no shrinking violet! I choose my friends carefully etc… I have nice friends both at home and at work, a nice family (just usual problems – nothing severe – but some of them drink a bit much sometimes! But I don’t get involved in drama or rows). I do have one sister with mental health poblems (bi-polar), which is a real source of sadness and tragedy in all of our lives… but I do what I can and have learned that I can only help her; I can’t cure her.
I have had my losses and my difficulties.. I understand now more who I am (and why I am) since I came on BR.. and I will always be grateful to Natalie for putting up with me! I am seen by everyone who knows me as stable, sane and sensible and self-sufficient – except in my love life!! (which is always sparse and troublesome, but only ever troublesome to me internally, not overtly. No-one I know would ever guess the extent of the misery this EUM relationship has caused and is causing me. No-one, except Nat and you guys on here). Anyway… yes, I still have my bad grumpy days when I think I will never trust a man again and don’t care to anyway! But other times I am hopeful that I may still find a trustworthy companion (maybe by tripping over one in the street!)… and now I def. know when to run for the hills!
Thanks for your concern Liesha. I appreciate. x
Thought it was just me; some people bother me about this all the time, as if there’s something wrong with me because I’m not seeing anyone. It’s as if they have nothing else to talk about & they’re more concerned about it than I am! It’s very annoying but I’m handling it better than before (limiting interactions, etc.). I’m not averse to being in a relationship IF a decent person comes alone and we’re on the same level in terms of being co-pilots in a relationship. I just don’t feel like being bothered right now. That’s why I can’t understand man-crazy women & people who can’t be alone – never understood & never will.
I could write so much about this great post, but suffice to say, it is so true, and is the conclusion I’ve pretty much come to. Up until now I’ve always seen the “best” in people – better than some actually deserve – now I just want to see “how the person really is,” and that takes time and objectivity. Men are famous for being ever-ready for physical involvement – in my experience, most by the second date, which I’ve had to reign in (the last date said, “Yeah, I guess it’s early in our relationship” – uh yeah, the second date kind of is!) This stirs the pot for emotional feelings too quickly. We want to believe that physicality means something to the guy – I am not quite sure how their emotions develop in relation to their physical desire, but it seems a separate package. Maybe a key is to reign that in for a bit. That’s how it ties together for me. That is, if you are looking for an actual relationship rather than just “fun” which it seems that many of us here are. To me now, if a guy can go with my restraint and still have interest, it will be more valuable to me. And trust – no, never so freely given again. Well stated about the fine line between cynicism and total trust. Start with a little trust, and let it grow if warranted. Before physical involvement, I’ll know more where the guy is coming from, and if any physical involvement ensues, by then I want to know exactly where he’s coming from. The whole “I want something casual, I just want some fun,” is done, because I am done with that.
Great advice, as usual! I have recently been trying to be more gentle with myself when I have betrayed my own trust by ignoring big, flaming red flags and ending up frustrated and alone. I hold fast to the adage that there is no such thing as failure, only feedback, and continue to use that enormous debacle of a relationship to remind myself that even though I’m not yet perfect in the realm of trusting myself, at least I’ll never do that again!
PS – I will no longer equate “chemistry” with anything. All it is, is chemistry. Means nothing about the future, nothing about the guy’s interest in you, just a delicious opening from which to further explore.
That’s smart. Thanks.
Jennifer I know how you feel. When you have feelings for someone, you don’t want to hold back, and it’s really hard to tell if they have genuine feelings for you, or are just taking advantage of your loving nature because it makes them feel good, and they’re choosing to ‘give’ as much as will keep you giving to them. And it’s a catch 22, because if you hold back your feelings, then you’re the one who’s not being ‘honest’. When my instinct says a man is holding back from giving emotionally, then I do press the ‘pause’ button as mentioned in this post, but then how do you get back to ‘play’…?!
Crazybaby,
you get back to play by ditching the EUM who is already giving you all he’s got to offer and already getting everything he will ever want from you and by finding an emotionally available man – not by trying to ignite a (not so) spontaneous combustion in the man you think you have. You can’t get to ” back to play” with this guy. He does not have a “play” button – he has only one “start” and one “stop” button and – you need to get this before you get hurt some more: he is in total and complete control of the buttons. If you want your man to be different – get a different man.
Spot on Natalie…Rock on! Hope the vaca is awesome!
Thanks for the post, Nat. It has helped me with some of my thinking. I just had a sad and draining conversation with an ex – not the big bad ex – an ex with whom I had a very intense, solid relationship in my late teens to mid-twenties. (You know the first healthy, ‘you get me’ relationship?). Anyway, in light of me recently starting to see someone (great and worthy), I decided I should finally cut this emotional tie with my ex, because for the past 5 or so years since we broke up, we’ve both used each other as that person to go to for assurance, that person who tells us we are super and lovable, and that whoever didn’t give us a job or a grant or mistreated us was wrong!
I feel like a right AC now because in one of our recent conversations, a few months back, I was moaning about there being so many EUMs everywhere and he was also moaning about the problems in his long-term relationship, which then turned into a kind of ‘what are we doing? we’re too old to be pissing about in half-way relationships’ (implication being we should give it another shot) conversation. Then a few weeks ago he left his relationship (for his own reasons, but with me in mind), and now I am seeing someone else (who I met, by chance, out with mutual friends).
The ex has decided I am a big turd, and that the trust is broken between us, that I lied to him, willfully messed with him, and that he won’t forgive me or ever talk to me again. I understand this is some of his pain speaking and that he is transferring anger about his relationship ending onto me, but I really have been careless (at best) as I should not have engaged in that sort of conversation with him.
On the one hand, this bond had to be broken somehow because I want to give my heart/mind fully to someone else without the emotional crutches of a past relationship. I want to be able to trust myself that I can be in a relationship on my own, without dashing off to him for help. I also want this person to be able to trust that I am emotionally committed to him. On the other, I did do something that’s quite like what an AC would do – i.e. looked for assurance (if not the potential of a relationship – which felt real, but I was also wavering like an AC). Would really appreciate some help with how to make amends with him/ respond in a healthy, useful way. Don’t want to think it is simply OK as an AC might.
Elle
I don’t think that qualifies as assclownery, it’s more EU (on both sides).
Not all friendships last forever. People move, get new jobs and, yes, start new relationships. Even female friendships don’t always survive that.
It may be time to cut the tie. I cut off an ex that I had stayed friends with over a 20 year period. In the end, it just wasn’t worth it. He wanted more (or claimed he did, when he DID have me, he dumped me!) and I just got fed up with having to justify why I wasn’t interested.
You shouldn’t have engaged in that conversation but that doesn’t mean you have to keep continuing the cycle. I’m not sure what to suggest. You don’t want to leave it on a sour note but to go back to be the nice guy .. is just what EUMs do.
If it was me, I would leave it.
I knew I was out of the EU jungle when I was able to FINISH relationships that no longer benefited me or the other party, rather than just put them on layaway for a rainy day. It really doesn’t make you a bad person. It cuts both ways, I’ve been dropped (by male and female friends/acquaintances) without explanation and, while it hurt, I DID understand that people move on. I think he’ll understand too.
Hey Elle,
A bit of a pickle, i grant you! You are right when you say that your ex is angry about his relationship ending and is transferring that on to you.
His actions have not been squeaky clean either though. He did break up with his girlfriend with the view of moving onto you. That’s not really healthy. One should process the end of one relationship before moving onto the next. Going back to what is familiar out of fear and frustration is not the answer. But i digress!
How to deal with this – i would give it time, give him some space and then try to talk to him again. If he won’t and gives you no other option, i would write a letter and post it through his door (less ‘lazy’ than an email). The most important thing is that you have YOUR head on straight before you talk to him and that your words are not coming from a place of guilt, or wanting to not look like a turd. You may have been talking about getting back together, but he had a girlfriend at the time. You have not made any promises to him – you dont owe him anything. You have done nothing wrong. You met someone you like, it happens! You know that you didn’t mean to mess him about. All you can do is communicate that to him – you have no control over his reaction, that’s entirely up to him.
Bottom line: all you can do is be genuine, honest and communicate your thoughts and feelings to him – trust in your own integrity.The rest is out of your hands. You know you are not an AC. Don’t be so concerned with his perception of you (jedi mind tricks). If he is a true friend, he will realise that he has no claims over you because you had conversations about theoretically getting back together and he will be happy for you.
Best of luck! 🙂
Minky
That would be perfect if Elle wanted to remain friends with him. Have I misunderstood “cut the emotional tie”? To me, that means cutting him off (to be brutal).
If it was me, I’d be pissed if I told someone not to speak to me, they came back after I’d calmed down to explain themselves and then … dumped me (albeit nicely). Sometimes we don’t get to have the last word and we don’t get to show the best side of ourselves.
I’m not trying to be argumentative, but just be careful of putting yourself back into someone’s life. All break ups are hard and messy. You can’t go back and rewrite it. I wish I could but it would just makes thing worse.
It’s not about who’s right and who’s wrong. What IS the right way to deal with an ex who has romantic feelings for you, which you did entertain for a little while? Sometimes, when you make a mistake, you can’t undo it, you learn and move on.
I’ve seen the way you write Elle. If you wrote him a letter, wouldn’t he just fall in love with you again?
I have a feeling he may be back in touch, in which case a (very) short and (moderately) sweet reply would be fine. I wouldn’t just ignore in that instance.
grace,
“Sometimes we don’t get to have the last word and we don’t get to show the best side of ourselves.” Just thank you. That’s what I’m struggling with right now. It’s okay to let it go — this is very helpful to me today! I think I want to do right not just for ego reasons, or just noble reasons, but also with an eye on that potential future confidential friendship… the last potential I seem to be chasing. Which is sadly too likely to get someone into trouble down the line as it happened with you Elle, even with the best of intentions. Is it even possible in general, to have a friend of the opposite sex who is available for discussing romantic issues, without any subtext or unspoken expectations? Why is it not so appealing, for instance, to hash out man trouble with my own brother? We are very close otherwise. I do have the suspicion that those types of friendships are always subtly about comparisons between ex and current partner, and secret what ifs on at least one party’s side…
Hey Elle,
I think the comments made by Grace etc. are good advice. Maybe time to put this ex into your past and let him deal with it. I had similar “friendship” through my twenties with the boyfriend I had from 16 yrs old until I was about 23yrs (my mother still says I should have stuck with him! And he was actually the only really decent, true, relationship I have had with a man). I came to realise much later, in my thirties, that he had actually been carrying a torch for me all that time (since I broke it off when I was 23yrs, to “spread my wings”!!).
Like you we remained good friends who confided in eachother but, as I say, it became clear that he (and even sometimes me) secretly or even unconsciously hoped it might be re-ignited and I did nothing definite to discourage that as an “option”… the friendship fizzled out only when he finally really moved on – and got married to someone else. So I’not entirely convinced by these “ex friends” situations…
My guess is your ex is mad mainly cos he broke with the girfriend for what now seems to be no apparent reason – and he feels like a fool – and he will likely go back to her; but in the long run, drawing a line under that “friendship” is probably the best thing. Good luck with new guy. Am dead jealous!
Ladies, Thank you so much for your comments (and to Nat because I recognise this moved the discussion a little off-topic, even if the trust issue was what initially brought it to mind). I really appreciate your suggestions – for my thinking as well as what to do about it. I have decided that I will leave him alone, certainly for a while – to do otherwise would be pretty cruel, and delay what has needed to happen for the 5-odd years since we broke up (a complete emotional separation). I would feel more optimistic about being pals if both of us hadn’t been so EU – as Grace says – and set each other up as our means of not being open to other people, and if it wasn’t clear that he retains romantic feelings. Minky – thanks for pointing out a few things about AC behaviour and how unhelpful it is to focus on whether I am an AC (bloody diagnosing!). I may speak or write to him at some point in the future, something simple (and not seductively elaborate), but you’re right, Grace, the cue has to come from him. I still wish I hadn’t engaged in the conversation with him, but I will do my best to turn it into another gentle slap from life, rather than anything hugely indicative. Finally, Fearless, thanks for the well wishes re. the new man – who still has not (to use Minky’s expression) grown horns and a tail. It’s going very well. I assure you, I was in post-AC (and geez, I can only see now what a meanie that guy could be!) haze of ‘can’t be bothered’, ‘just so many EUs everywhere’ too. But I truly think that was also because I hadn’t mastered (not that ever mastered, but gotten sufficiently good at) being good to myself yet. I suspect you’re in that stage now, and as you introduce more new ideas and experiences into your life, and focus on building things for yourself, you’ll naturally become more open to the possibility of a good guy coming into your life and more likely to recognise him. Either way, you’ll be sorted.
Great entry. Now trying to figure out exactly where my trust issues come from. Actually, there’s nothing to figure out; my mother & father can be thanked for my trust issues. 😐 Still working on these issues but have come a LONG way so far. 🙂 Off to read the comments…..
Moving on is so hard. As is deciding to trust again, once you’ve had your heart broken.
I love what you said about those embarassing failures really being lessons in personal growth. Realising that is soooo liberating.
I also always concentrate on the fact that though past mistakes are embarassing TO ME, no-one else really cares that much. And honestly, they don’t. Try to think of something cringe-worthy a friend has done, and, chances are, you just see it as kind of silly and funny. That’s how other people look at your transgressions too.
Yesterday I felt ultra down and sent my recent ex (whom I dumped because he treated me like an option) a text saying ‘miss you’. I just felt so lonely and not just about him about everything. Freinfs etc..I’m suppose to be in a hugely productive part of my life and all I can think about is where has my spark gone? Why don’t I waNna get up in the morning? I go through a week of positivey then a few days of despair. Up and down. I understand everyone had bad days but lately mine are,awful.
H
nk, I think that you may be buying into some exterior idea of how you should be doing in your life and that, along with the loss of a relationship has you tossing around. Unfortunately, contacting the person you broke up with via text isn’t really helpful to either of you. Sending him that text telling him that you miss him after you broke up with him is very conflicting information and can lead to confusion if not outright anger.If you have had a change of heart then you need to step up and communicate with this person that you spoke of and/or cut him loose and allow both of you to go on with your lives. Yes, break-ups are hard, coping with the grieving is difficult, wanting things to be better immediately is understandable but unrealistic as far as your feelings are concerned…it is a LOSS…even if it’s a loss that will prove to be best for you. There are many posts on this site that may prove helpful for you. I think that you may need to consider taking awhile to mull over what you are thinking and feeling and coming to terms about it all. This is your life and not someone else’s to determine how successful you are at any given time based on others expectations. If nothing else, please control your urge to text…look up the rules for break-ups, boundaries that everyone should have type of posts…best of luck and hang in there!
@Allison
i think you are very right about wondering if they may be narcissts or sociopathic etc.
Imho its better to acept them for who they are……
They dumped us? They played us? etc………
Well it is what it is.
What is to gain if we find a definition for them?
I mysself was looking so much into the Whys that my head was ready to explode and i could just not focus on the important thing……ME………
I felt bad when j thought there maybe was more behind my back that i didnt know of.
But at the ende the result is the same…….i.we are better away from the toxic relations.
Concentrate on yourself.This is the only way to get ourselves back.Let go and get your trust for yourself back.
In the middle of last night, I suddenly woke up in horrible fear and terror. I’m used to it. It has happened over and over again throughout my life. I guess it’s a flashback of some childhood abuse, although I still can’t remember what it was. I know my parents tortured me in countless ways, but many memories are still blurred.
Anyway, until recently, I used to think: “If I can’t even remember what happened to me, how can I blame others for it? Maybe I was such a horrible, disgusting child that I somehow forced others to abuse me”.
This is also a matter of trust, I think. I’m learning to say to myself: “No matter what memories I’m suppressing, I trust my own instinct that I wasn’t to blame for those incidents and that my feelings are valid.”
I’m also learning to trust life. Whatever the bad stuff was, it’s over. I’ve kicked my entire family out of my life for good and I trust myself that I can achieve happiness on my own.
My Ex-BF of three years (10 years ago) grew annoyed whenever I had those seemingly inexplicable anxiety attacks at midnight. He even ridiculed me for them. However, I didn’t mind. I believed this to be “real love” and the kind of healthy treatment I needed and deserved. After all, hadn’t my “loving” mother treated me the same way?
Had my BF shown genuine concern instead, I would have ran away, I guess. I would have gotten angry at him, saying something like: “Do I really think I’m such a wimp? This is not what I need. I need a partner who teaches me to grow stronger, not one who nurtures my wimpiness”.
Today, thinking of this old self of mine makes me cry. On the other hand, back then (in my early twenties) I probably had to push all my pain away just to survive. But for the same reason I was absolutely not ready for a healthy relationship.
elly
I felt very sad for you reading that. For many of us here, the men are small potatoes compared to the deeper traumas we have been through. I feel fairly easygoing about the men now. But I can still lie in bed at 3am and wonder about my parents. Every day I feel sorry about it. A part of me would still like to fix it.
Of course, it’s not your fault. It’s easy for me to say from the outside. Harder for someone to believe when it’s happening to them.
And of course you can trust your instinct that you weren’t to blame. When I look at the children in my life I cannot imagine what they would have to do for me to start mistreating them. From an early age you were forced to deal with things that most adults will never experience. You weren’t able to help yourself. You were too small. But thankfully you can now.
Bon courage.
Oh EllyB, Hugs!!! You have lived through hell…but you are in the light now and I am so glad for you. Obviously you kept your heart intact and are a feeling and loving woman. Your mind is obviously working as well and I see you as a total package who is well worth fighting for…keep up the work and keep honoring and trusting yourself!
There are several people on this site who have literally gone through hellish things and didn’t let those times destroy them. In so many cases the pressure has made diamonds and the heat has forged steel. Beauty and strength have risen like the phoenix from situations that could easily have led to so many negative results…wow….
I am so sorry you had to go through so much but I am thrilled that you did it and that you are loving yourself now and refusing to let the negative voice(s) stop you. You couldn’t have been horrid…you just had horrid conditions to survive.
The question is….how do I possibly get back to having enough trust in my husband again after discovering his secret phone emotional affair that had gone on for over 2 years. Everytime I look at him I think about him dialing her up every morning and every evening just to check in. She made him feel important and I didn’t (I was at home resenting the fact that I was doing everything to and for our kids, shopping, cooking, cleaning, mowing…this super woman allowed him time for his precious Sarah. Its no wonder I was a tad bid resentful with he would arrive at home.
We had a couple drinks with our neighbors yesterday and he drank a lot…he kept mentioning skinny dipping (not happening obviously) so then he decides to go to bed and my daughter and I follow shortly there after. I am not sleeping in the same room with him since the discovery so I go in the master to get my pjs and gym clothes for the following morning and he is sprawled out in buck naked on our bed….I actually threw up in the bathroom – what was he expecting me to jump in bed with him or was he going to take things into his own hands if you know what I mean. Thankfully I shut the door before my daughter saw. He can’t get his apt soon enough!!! He still shows no remorse….
Bewildered, You need time to yourself and for yourself and to continue to function in your life so that this catastrophe doesn’t cause more harm than it has already. I thought that he was at a hotel and that you weren’t associating with him. You are asking how you can trust him and return to the previous trust for him…idk if that is possible but it is something that you will learn and decide in time. What I advise now is for him to get the hell out of your house; for you to live apart and to not associate for a few months except in bill and child related concerns. This is so fresh that you are unable to look at it with clear perspective and without a great deal of emotional turmoil. This is a time of hell for you. You thought both of you were in the relationship yoke together and that you were building your future and headed in the same direction…you had no clue he was being emotionally unfaithful and now you are spinning. I so feel for you and I do understand how betrayed you feel. But, again, I think that you need time and perspective in order to come to some decisions about what to do and where to go from here.
Bewildered,
I’m sorry all this is happening after so many years but, this guy is not trustworthy.
I am surprised that you don’t apply the threesome with the other woman, for me that would worse. What a mess!
Have you done any more digging on his computer?
Allison – That was our conversation last night….He says he is a victim (with the computer thing) but refuses to let me bring the computer to someone to obtain all of the records that were deleted. Talk about red flags….that right there is the biggest admission of guilt. He told me he would rather leave than have me gain access to the computer records so obviously there is some deep seeded situation going on…much more than just an emotional affair. He will be leaving asap based on that and that alone.
He forbids me to dig on the computer….says he is a victim. I told him he would have to leave asap if I did not know everything about what is on the computer – he says then he will leave. BIGGEST RED FLAG of some really deep seeded things he has probably been hiding for a very long time if you ask me. So…don’t let the door hit you in the arse on your way out.
Bewildered,
OMG!! That is really scary!
Why don’t you take the computer to someone on your own? You’re the wife, you have every right. This would be in your favor when you’re making a settlement.
One question: why are you telling him you want to check the computer-so he can erase it-why didn’t you just do it?
“deep seeded things he has probably been hiding for a very long time if you ask me.”
Yes there is. You know the truth Bewildered – it’s just a hard one to take in… and that is v understandable. Of course he won’t give you access to the computer… it would hang him out to dry! *HE* would rather leave? Really? Why is he dishing out all the ultimatums? Of course he’d rather leave – he may as well leave, because what he knows is that if you find out what’s on that computer you’ll be so disgusted you will tell him to leave right away, so either way the result for him is the same. Don’t listen to any more of his pish and tell him to hand it over or get out. (I would get my hands on it one way or another – by fair means or foul – but that’s just me!)
Bewildered,
I feel for you and know you are hurting, but let me be blunt, if permitted by Nat:
Your husband was involved in threesome sex with this woman and others. That much is very obvious from your previous comments: You posted on here an email he had sent to a third party arranging to meet for sex at Sarah’s mother’s house. He has been making more than phone calls with this woman and with other people! Believe it. Like Allison, I am bewildred about why you seem to have drawn a veil over this and managed to reduce it to phone calls with a “friend”. I think you are burying your head on the sand. If I were you (famous last words!!) I would be contacting Sarah myself.
Your husband is making something small of the reality in the hope that he deceives you into making small of it as well… I’ve seen this tactic before with my ex (and it works! And it’s working with you); they belittle your concerns; they act as if nothing is out of place; they refuse to even acknowledge that there is an issue; they brush over it; they make you feel there is nothing to make a big deal about; you are over-reacting; and in doing all that they make sure that you do not EVER get to appreciate or discuss what actually IS the issue cos they are drawing a very heavy veil over it. And you are falling for this – you are (in all but sleeping in another toom) following his lead on the whole thing – socialising with neighbours together! Next *you* will be feeling like the bad one here for not having sex with him as well.
You are trying to carry on as normal (minus the sex) which is all very convenient for him (and is sending him mixed messages)… you want things to get back to “normal” – and that’s also what he wants – but the truth is. things never were “normal” (his normal is not the same as your normal).
How can you ever trust him again when he is not telling you the truth about the nature of his infidelities? You can’t! How can you trust him, or more importantly trust *you* again, if you won’t deal with the reality of what has been going on in your relationship? You can’t.
I wish you all the best but would urge you to get your head out of the sand, open you eyes and start taking this bull by the horns. Get him out of your house for starters! – get some NC going – and you might get some clarity here. I also think you really need to talk to someone about this. It’s not going to just go away.
Bewildered
ps:
What do you think the ‘skinny dipping’ suggestions with the neighbours are all about? I could hazard a guess. You think this is a new thing? (he knows what he likes – and it ain’t just phone calls.)
And… “you didn’t make him feel important enough” Poor wee soul, so it’s your fault is it? You mean he didn’t make YOU feel important! All your homemaking wasn’t important enough to HIM. At least get the issue the right way up bewildered? How important do you think the pain you are in right now – that he has caused – is to him? You did nothing wrong. You are just paying for what he did wrong.
Sprawled out on the bed buck naked – indeed! It’s making me mad just thinking about it! 🙂 He needs a boot up the arse.
Thank you Fearless. You are so right…I want so much for everything to be the way it was (minus Sarah and his other friends) but its never going to be “normal” again. Sucks when the rug is pulled out from underneath you…..so does one change the locks if he is paying half of the bills? Never been in this type of situation before.
He always claims he is never wrong (not this time) and has a very powerful position when they find out about this it will not be well received. His job was on the back burner if it was ok for him to be late to work almost every morning talking with Sarah.
I should just go forward and get the computer records because after all he didn’t consult me about having a “special friend” or his Craigslist obsession.
I hate how he keeps playing the “she is only a friend card” and suddenly (trying to shift the blame) keeps bringing up how I go to the store for long periods of time etc…..but, you are right I can’t let the veil get over my head in this one.
You need to seek legal advice.
Bewildered,
Trust your own instincts here – not him! You know you can’t trust him one iota. You need to get off the fence on this – one minute you’re socialising with him and the neighbours and the next you’re talking about changing the locks; you are going from one extreme to the other, so which is it? Decide. For what it’s worth, I think you need to give this man one clear and consistent message and stop listening to his pish, like you spending a lot of time at the shops! Good god! If that’s all he’s got on you he’s a desperate man scraping the bottom of a deep barrel – but what’s worse is that you seem to be giving it some credence and headspace. He has been habitually on-line setting up threeway sex sessions – what part of that are you missing? Get a hold of that computer – don’t ask him for it anymore – if he thinks you are desperate for it he’ll throw it in a river (he may even have gotten rid of it by now). Get it, if you can, and don’t let him have any more acces to it – then you won’t need to change the locks! Stop engaging with him – he is lying through his back teeth and is manipulating, controlling and bullying you. If you are serious about dealing with this problem you’d be better getting some proper professional advice, and don’t sit on it.
Over and out! Good luck.
Great advice!
Bewildered,
Forgive me, but, I think you have not addressed the computer issue because if you find the truth-years of cheating and lying-you will be forced to be more pro active.
You will have to face up to this at some time, shouldn’t it be now?
Bewildered,
I lived through two months of my (soon to be) ex husband conducting an affair via phone, email, facebook and skype in plain view of me and our children, for hours at a time, day and night, while I was taking care of a toddler and an older child and household. It’s an awful way to embark upon single motherhood like that, but that is what this period is about. Every day that man is in your house is just another day you’re delaying the inevitable. He must get out. I know what it’s like to not feel ready, but you will feel better, it is a relief to be physically away from the pain source.
I got advice from mutual friends (goodness knows why) not to rush this transition, but I felt like I had to crawl out of my skin. The whole ‘no rush’ approach was totally misguided in retrospect, and only served to prolong the sense of uncertainty and my misery. But there is nothing uncertain about the fate of a marriage at this stage. It’s already over at this point. I even felt better once he had a move-in date for his new apt. You mention you do all the housework and child care already, and you have reason to take great strength in that. You know you can manage it all, and the children, sadly, are not attached to him in a healthy way already and that’s a fact that cannot be changed by him staying. My heart goes out to you and I wish you strength and faith.
Grace said not all friendships last forever……..and i think this is a very important point.
I believe its a very hard thing for people to let go AND to let go for good. We have to see all we are going through as learning lessons on our way to our trueselves.
Sometimes its hard to see who we are……like when we are in such relations where we cant let go and we are obsessed about WHAT IF thoughts.
But as we go through pain and sadness and grieve we come closer to the person that we really are.
These ways are stony and hurtfull but without these experiences we cant grow.
When i saw myself begging for the ACs love i felt that this is not what i wanted….but still i could not let go.
Going through my life i know now its from my childhood…….i always felt like begging for love.
So now i realize this AC story has tought me sthg. I havent known till now although I am 39.
I have to let go for good and trust myself to be able to stand on my own feet and to love myself for who I am, with my weakness and strength.
Trust yourself!
NML, CaveWoman,
Another psychic post!!!! Like yoga, Trusting Myself is a daily practice…
I have wondered if it was OK to recommend books to each other? Thank you for allowing it NML and thank you for mentioning good reads Cavewoman.
Recently my two Bibles have been: Baggage Reclaim and Act Like a Lady, Think Like a Man. (Steve Harvey). He totally de-mystifies the dating process as NML does.
“I can handle bad news now that I know I’m willing to deliver it in a timely manner to myself.”
Amen…thank you NML!
P. S. Trust is Earned!
My date? Just met him; how can I trust him so soon?
Me? Known this gal a lifetime…now there’s Someone I can trust!
: )
Ha ha … Natalie – this is one of your best articles. You could almost end your blog with this one (but no, please don’t!) It kind of wraps things up for me.
I’m doing good with NC. The AC’s b-day was a couple of days ago and I sat on my hands and did nothing! 🙂 I’m beginning to get used to trusting my own feelings on these issues. I considered sending him a generic card and my physical reaction was a tightening in my chest. It took me a day or two to figure out me thinking of sending a card and the heaviness in my chest were connected.
I’ve always been sooo worried about how he felt about things. Not wanting to hurt his feelings in any way – that is why NC was so difficult. Now I’m thinking about MY feelings first. He used to make fun of, ridicule, discount, ignore, and become angry about my “feelings” – I guess he doesn’t think he has any.
Thanks for this. I’m still struggling with massive trust issues in the wake of the ex-EUM. I finally realized that trusting other people had to start with trusting myself first. One of the best and most powerful things I’ve done in my post EUM life has been to create the following affirmation:
“I have faith in myself and trust myself to make good choices that are in my best interests.”
When I find myself in doubt, I remember this little statement and repeat it. And then I proceed.
I know I’m going to sound the negative one here. I do trust myself- it’s everyone else I don’t trust. Frankly, I’m just not willing to anymore. I’m exhausted with men, with people. Now, if anyone can tell me the location of an atheist convent somewhere in Europe where there is a 24/7/365 imposed vow of silence and all I have to do is take care of animals and read, I’ll move there in a heartbeat. East Anglia if possible (jokes about Essex notwithstanding).
Thanks everyone, I really appreciate what you’re saying. The background is that he was my boss when we first started seeing eachother. We saw eachother in secret for 3 years, and he was always hot and cold, but said he felt guilty about the work aspect, and wasn’t looking for a relationship. I accepted that because when we were hot it was amazing. Then earlier this year I had an epic talk with him, telling him what I wasn’t happy about, but also how much I love him. It had a positive effect on him and we got closer, and then two weeks later the company went bust. I was apprehensive to see what affect this would have on the dynamic between us, and he was so loving and attentive that it blew me away. I felt so happy. This continued up until last month when he was constantly in touch but not making time to see me. That’s what really threw me in terms of instincts and trust. We saw eachother a few days ago, and all seemed good again, but I have this niggling doubt that the love and attention he was showing me was just another hot spell, and not a sign that he wants something lasting with me.
Crazy baby – try going back into the blog and reading Nat’s post on how not to be an option and also the one on why you shouldn’t wait around for a guy to get interested in you. This guy is plainly an EUM… sooner or later you will have to admit that you have made an error in judgement by continuing to invest in him and realise there is only one answer here for you: stop investing, cut him off and move on. I know it’s not the answer you want.. but it’s the only one there is.
crazyb
Couples often meet each other at work. Odds are, one of them will be superior to the other. The way to deal with it is not to sneak about for THREE years but to make the relationship “official” so people stop gossiping about it. I know several couples who met at work and got married. In some cases, one of them had to get a job elsewhere (it’s usually the woman, that’s sexism for you) but at least it’s dealt with.
We often try to defend the EU by giving some background to the situation. He’s busy .. he’s a father .. you met at work .. he’s young/old etc. I made a lot of excuses for my ex too, but now I just cynically raise my eyebrows when I hear excuses. They’re red herrings. Busy people, single parents, colleagues, of all ages forge proper relationships all the time.
The obstacle to the relationship isn’t external forces. It’s him.
You’re correct, it’s another hot spell. Are you gonna trust your experience, your instincts, even us ? None of this relationship is enjoyable for you. Understandably you hate the cold spells and you can’t even enjoy the hot ones cos you know it won’t last.
And as for him, I don’t care if your self-esteem is shot to pieces and you’re unable to stick up for yourself – what the hell gives him the right to pick up and drop another human being as he pleases? I don’t think you should let him anymore!
I absolutely agree Grace…once you really see what these AC’s are doing and get some distance from there behavior, you realize that the “hot and cold thing” that we make excuses for is really very abusive behavor that plays with your mind. The more you let it go on, the harder it gets to extricate yourself from it.
The key to freedom from this is tocontinually observe their behavior through the lens of care, trust and respect….if you don’t feel this from them, then you are likely not getting it…doesn’t matter what they say..
I really have come to see in the last year that what people “do “shows you who they are, not what they say….and I include myself in that…no more talking about the changes I want to make….just do them, each day, every day…do it..and the more I do that the better I feel about myself and my life changes a little bit each day..It’s lovely.
Wow Natalie, trust? That is a hard thing to have. I know I don’t trust myself, so I let other men, decide what is best for me. I believe them instead of my own intuitive feelings telling me that the relationship is all wrong. How can I trust men, when I can’t trust myself? How will I know if the next guy is telling the truth? How can you prevent yourself from being bitter and mistrusting everything he says. OR, believing everything he says and maybe being hurt again? I’m full of questions, doubts and fears as I begin my NC again.
nk,
I know how you feel. You feel so strong one day and the next day or minute or moment, you are basket case. A song or something you see that reminds you him and you struggle not to send that “I miss you” text. And you wonder if it will ever go away. You know it probably will, but it seems like it will be long time before that happens. And so you wait and hurt.
Vanja,
This up one day, down the next is really the process of grief. It is so hard, but what I have found is that if I sit in it and really let the feelings come, each time I do that I get stronger. I don’t feel as afraid to have a down day or moment. I don’t feel scared now when I know I am about to cry. I see this as being human. The fact that I am missing him or having a memory about good times and feeling that means that I am human and I have the ability to feel. I see this as a strength actually. I feel like I am learning to use a muscle that we are often taught to supress.
The trust piece lies with you. When you start really listening to your gut and the feelings you get when you talk to people, that becomes your guide. Often it takes time to recognize and understand these feelings, because you may be so used to looking to others to guide you, validate you and direct you.
I am now really learning this and it feels so good. I’m 46, so it has taken awhile, but I see the early connection to my childhood and am really starting to understand how I communicate. I now think consciously before I speak and I notice I talk less now, because I don’t have the need for validation and approval. So much my conversation was wrapped up in that..it takes time to learn.
lilylee,
Thank you for your encouraging words. Learning to trust myself will take time I know. I hear that whisper from my gut, but I ignore it because I can’t tell the difference between fact and fear. I am trying though. I am reviewing my past two years with my EUM and now I see so many times I ignored the truth; settling instead for his words. Or even worst, my fantasy of what I wished was true. I know about those days of up and down. Some evenings I am crying the whole night and feeling is an actual pain in my gut. But this is a lesson teaching me to trust myself so I never go through this again. I’m 28 and I want to not have this happen anymore. Praying!
NML, your posts have really made me see the light. I just have to say to everyone that learning to trust yourself and getting the opportunity to make wiser choices is really the best vindication. Since my breakup with my AC/EUM I’ve had 2 men trying to get me into another dubious situation. It makes me feel really good that I’m taking such good care of my mental health by walking away as soon as I see those big red flags a-flyin’!!! I prefer my sanity, thank you very much!!
RML,
Amen to that!! I find the same thing is happening to me also. Over the past year I have been on a few dates and I can see the red flags clearly now. My perspective has shifted. I no longer think, “wow they like me”, I think, “Do I like them”. It’s not enough that they like me…what do they bring to the table.
Also, I notice that when I think of the men on these dates, I visualize down the road and think, “Would I want this person in my future”. Do I want to spend or “waste” a year or more of my life with this person.
Time has become such a valued commodity for me and I just don’t want to spend time with people that do not make me feel good.
I really enjoy my own company now and I think I am really learning how to love myself.
Good article.
I’m struggling with finding the middle ground. I want to trust people to not want to mess with me. I had my epiphany “relationship” where I was pretty much just used, no commitment, so I trust myself to not make myself go through that again. It was HORRIBLE to say the least. But I know myself to know it would still hurt a lot. I’d rather take the risk, but still I’m weary. But then also I’d want to meet someone nice for a CHANGE and not get carried away in old patterns trying to see something that isn’t there.
It’s just hard when the mind can be this contradicting. :/
Natalie,
I really could relate to your post! I was with a future faker (who was consistent in how he treated me and never blew hot and cold) for 14 months. During that time, he spoke and behaved in a manner that lead me to believe that he felt more strongly for me than he actually did and that we were heading towards marriage. Because he was romantic, affectionate, and very attentive, I was trusting and believed him. However, my gut kept after me to ask him questions from time-to-time just to check in and see if we were on the same page, and he would give me consistent answers. In spite of this, my gut continued to keep after me (every three months or so) to ask the same questions in order to see if I would get the same answers. When our one year anniversary rolled around, we took a cruise together. While waiting at the airport for our flight, he checked his email on his laptop and asked if I wanted to check mine as he got up to go and get a snack. Once again, my gut kicked in and told me to look at his email. After going back and forth with myself about how wrong it was, the voice in my head screamed, “YOU NEED TO CHECK HIS EMAIL NOW!” I reluctantly did so, and found out that he had been emailing his ex for the past two weeks trying to help her with a computer virus. In his last mail to her, he asked her if she needed him to come over to her house and take a look at it. It turned out that he still had feelings for her and wanted any excuse to reestablish contact with her. To make a long story short, I ended up walking away from the relationship two months later, after asking him if we had a future together. Once I broke up with him, he admitted that he told me that we had a future because that was what he was feeling in the moment, but those feelings didn’t last. Fortunately, for me, my intuition enabled me to find out the truth, so that I could do damage control and walk away before he had the chance to blindside me and dump me once he decided that he was ready to move on. The lesson that I learned is that although a man can act like he’s totally into you, trust your instincts and take heed because doing so can save you from being devastated.
Hey Gina –
Thanks for sharing your experience. What were the signs that made you doubt the relationship? If he was consistent and treated you well, what was it that had you so worried?
I ask this because i think that, sometimes, the best people in the world change their minds. Feelings change. I have been on the receiving end of it and i have also been the one to walk away when things fizzled out. In my experience my feelings and desire to have a future was genuine at the time, but people do sometimes change their minds. There is no way to defend against that. It’s not necessarily future ‘faking’ because, at the time, the person truly means what they are saying.
I’m not saying this is what happened to you! He was aboviously still into his ex and there were other red flags too, but i think sometimes things don’t work out without there being any malice or deception involved. I think if we assume that every relationship that didn’t work out was because someone was EU, or future faking, or being a user, then we will never have faith in anybody.
Hi Minky,
We met online and became long distance email friends. Prior to becoming involved with each other romantically, we were both involved in other relationships. He would write and tell me about his new lady friend and from what he wrote, it seemed as though they were very happy and were heading towards marriage (she lived in L.A. and he in San Francisco). One day, he wrote me and (to my surprise) said that they had broken up. We began talking on the phone (we had only spoken via email up to that point) and he admitted to me that he had broken up with her because his ex called out of the blue and he realized that he could never feel as strongly for the new lady as he did her. When the new lady started talking about relocating to move in with him, he broke it off. He also admitted to me that he had lead the new lady on giving her the impression that he felt more for her than he really did. He said that was how he felt in the moment. He said that he broke up with her in the car when he was taking her to the airport! He then tried to get back together with the ex, but she told him that she did not love him and that they had no future together (in spite of this, she likes to pop up periodically, give him false hope that they might get back together, then disappear on him). That was the first and biggest red flag! We then started talking via skype. I confided in him that I was not happy in my current relationship and did not trust my boyfriend because he had cheated on me. Long story short, feelings started to develop for me and this guy. He flew to visit me on the east coast and we realized that we wanted to be together. I broke up with the other guy, and he discontinued contact with the ex. I was able to find a great job in the bay area, and he came and drove me cross country back to the west coast (I was basically coming back home), helped me find a place to stay, and we were pretty much inseparable for 14 months. During that time, my gut would bug me to check in to see if he’d gotten over her. When I asked, he said that he’d put his feelings for her in a box and stored them on a shelf in the closet. I think that he tried, but he couldn’t let go of how he felt for her. When he realized that he didn’t feel as strongly for me as he did her, he didn’t say anything. It wasn’t until I asked him out of the blue if I was the one, that he finally came clean and said that he wasn’t sure. I then realized that at some point along the way, he’d gotten on a different train heading in a different direction and I would have been blindsided (like his previous girlfriend) had I not kept asking questions.
Gina
Yes there’s your red flag.
I would also say, more generally and from my own experience, don’t start relationships unless you’re single.
When I met my player ex I was in a relationship (an abusive one, so I was looking for a way out). I know my player ex wasn’t looking for a proper relationship. How? If you don’t want to commit, if you still have feelings for an ex, if you’re confused, if you’re not sure about relationships, if you don’t want to give up being single, if you’re a player, if you don’t want responsibility, it makes sense to form a “friendship” with someone who is attached. It’s safe. Then when that person makes themselves available … there’s some backpedalling to do! “I didn’t sign up for this! You were in a relationship … all I wanted was limited time with you and no prospects … I don’t actually want you to myself! But I better try to make it work, I/you/we dumped someone to get here .. ”
Also, only people with poor relationship habits (and I count myself as having been solidly in that category) will start seeing someone who is already in a relationship. It’s because we don’t have good boundaries and not much respect for relationships either. Otherwise we wouldn’t go messing about in other people’s. And how do you know if you genuinely want this person or you’re just trying to get out of unsatisfactory situation?
If you want to know where a relationship went wrong … it’s very often in the beginning. You can’t build something solid on poor ground. It’s going to keep falling down.
Only date when you are single and only date other single people. Everything else is a can of wriggly worms.
I know there are exceptions but I’d rather trust the Rule than the Exception. This blog is like a halfway house for women who thought we were the exception. It’s too much of a long shot to trust in it.
Gina,
I am so curious as to your situation. You stated that your guy was consistent (no hot/cold), affectionate, and attentive for 14 mos. What was it that made your gut give you pause? The only thing consistent with my EUM was red flags (which I chose to ignore). My gut had tons of reasons to scream at me! Your story makes me cringe about trusting again. For all appearances it seemed you had a good relationship. Kudos to you for opting out once you learned of his true feelings. But again, just curious……
Lois Lane,
Please read what I wrote to Minky. Prior to us getting together, he told me about his ex and their messed up relationship. I wasn’t emotionally attached to him at that point and told him point blank that she didn’t care about him and that he was behaving like a doormat with her. He thanked me and told me that he respected the fact that I was direct. I actually thought that he would not write to me anymore, but the opposite happened. He developed a greater interest in me, and I foolishly allowed myself to develop feelings for him and become romantically involved. Now that everything is said and done, I would also like to add to what you said about trusting. My ability to trust has been shattered because this was a “nice” guy, who seemed sincere. His actions and words matched up (for the most part). Both my friends and his friends were shocked when we broke up because he acted like he was totally into me. Even after he realized that we had no future, he still acted like he was totally into me!! I only knew that he still had feelings for his ex because my gut told me to keep asking questions. If it weren’t for my intuition, I would not have had a clue until he decided he wasn’t feeling what he needed to feel and wanted out of the relationship. What really shocked and hurt me was how easily he let me go. Yes, he cried when I told him that I wanted a future with him and that it would hurt too much for me to continue on with him knowing that he didn’t feel the same way. However, three days after I broke up with him he was back online looking for his next girlfriend! He brought my things back that I’d left at his house and although he was his nice usual self, he also acted like he was totally fine with me ending things. How could this man go from acting so into me to acting like what we had for the past 14 months didn’t really mean that much to him. He even said that I made him feel loved, cherished, and adored. WOW! Yet, he was only with the ex for 8 months, during which time she emasculated him by telling him he was too short, too weak, etc., then dumped him. Three years later, he’s still chasing after her trying to win her love!!?!!? I don’t understand why he idolizes her even though he said that compared to me, she set the bar very low. He said the he was devastated when she broke up with him and wanted to run into the freeway divider and kill himself as he drove from her house. He told me that the only thing that stopped him was the love he felt for his daughter :-O
Gina,
Doesn’t his story with the ex sound similar to the ones you have read on here? He is EU, through and through.
Hi Allison,
He sure as hell is!! I can see that so clearly now!
When I met my MM he was an old friend and he told me he and his wife lived separate lives, separate bedrooms but stayed together due to mortgage/ financial reason. He was semi retired and we drifted into affair and for seven years I saw him daily. Ok I broke all the rules . However He was totally reliable devoted loving and supportive to me bringing up my daughter and also kept on good terms with his wife . His wife lost her job they had to downsize houses and moved out of town and still he didn’t ‘come clean’ and ‘sort himself out’ as he’d said he would. Guilt over having an affair etc finally got the better of me and I said it was over and i havent seen him for a year. Ive done NC for months at a time but recently relapsed . I feel I cant move on as i feel im leaving him behind as he ‘s in an unhappy situation and i miss everything about him. Im a devotee of this website and see the logic and my rational mind gets it . Yet for 7 years he acted like my soul mate and I am pining for him more than ever.
Im asking myself if the love we had wasn’t real what is ? Trust seems like an illusion. I had a father that abused me, a mother who lived in denial, two husbands that left me for other women. Ive worked on my issues for 30 years ,at times thought I had thing sorted and yes I have a beautiful well balanced daughter and a few lovely friend,s and some talents so its not all bad.
When it comes to ‘love’ relationships though Im reminded of a quote I read when I was learning to drive
‘ Assume everyone behind you and everyone in front of you are psychos’ !
Then this week I got sent another quote from Buddist website which says ‘Trying to find lasting happiness from relationships’ is like drinking salt water to quench your’e thirst’.
Maybe love is fluid Trust is fluid and people change, including yourself, and you just cant control it or avoid heartache.
Layla,
I am so sorry for everything you experienced in your childhood and marriages.
The problem is, he is not acting as your soulmate. The feelings have to go both ways.
Are you going to waste another seven years on a man that refuses to leave his marriage and make excuses? It sounds like he has made his choice by sticking by his wife. He’s not going anywhere.
Have you sought counseling?
I stopped counting the no contact days with my MM….absolute best thing I ever did was to go no contact. Holding steady and firm and not regreting one minute of my clarity! No explaning is necessry if they are treating you like crap – you must think more about yourself and get out. They get it…they know they are treating you like crap and they will keep doing it – just opt out of the madness. Trust me!!!
@ Layla
The saying If it hurts its not love……..i always wondered if this is true.
I loved my Mom and it hurt i got not the love i needed.
I loved my AC but it hurt a lot.
But sometimes love turns into adicction and because of the bonds we made we cant see this fact anymore.
I felt deeply for your story and I would wish you well but it feels like he is not deciding whether you ir his wife.
I dont know……..mine said we were soulmates and i believed it……..it felt this way for me…..but i am so very sure that if he was my soulmate then there wouldnt have been this pain.
I am letting go of this illusion……..i need this for my health.
I wish you the best.
Thanks for youre comment Simone. Maybe it was an addictive relationship . All i know is I saw a courageous man in him that I believed in . Im having to face being disillusioned by him . But Im disillusioned by myself too as I allowed him to know my daughter . She now feels fooled as she too thought he had integrity. I’m determined to restore her faith in me and I can do that by building a fulfilling life which relies on my own integrity.
Thanks for comment Allison. I’ve been in counselling last 2 years and in some ways am better than ever. I do see the light some days. Im hoping its just a relapse in letting go. It seems like I’m having to move house anyway and I actually think its what I need to do to make a total fresh start
I have read this blog for years. When i was feeling lost and trying to find my way out of 6 years of seeing a married assclown with major future faking, this was my guide. I check in almost every week to read. Today I feel better as I start my no contact. There is a light at the end of this tunnel. I can’t afford therapy.. no insurance.. got to love America.. this has saved me.. I”ll keep reading. Thank you Natalie. Change is possible
Grace,
Good points you made. The right thing to do would have been to break up with the first boyfriend way before I developed an emotional attachment to my ex. The first guy seemed to offer me everything that I was missing in my previous relationship. So when he asked me to break up with the first guy to be his girlfriend, I did. I also felt justified because the first guy had lied and cheated on me. But as my late mother used to say, “Two wrongs do not make a right.” Life is always teaching us lessons though. When the second guy broke my heart, it was the first one who provided me a shoulder to cry on. When I apologized to him and asked for forgiveness (we are good friends to this day) he did so and not once did he tell me that I deserved what I got for leaving him for the new guy. He even praised me for the classy way in which I broke up with him, in spite of the fact that I hurt him. Needless to say that I was humbled. What I learned is that the person who seems to really care about you, may not care as much as you thought. And the person whom you thought did not care that much about
you may care more than you really know. I also learned that the person whom you made cry, one day may very well turn out to be the one whose shoulder you cry on in the future.
I am not posting this reply to blame or point the finger at any exes or friends who have come and gone in my life like most people would do. However, I too, was heartbroken by my first girlfriend which, without me realising for a long time, made me very ‘closed’ and guarded.
I found it extremely hard to open up to anyone and passed my pain on to other girls who came into my life. Now, I look back at the years, and to be honest, I am grateful in some way for not settling down straight away.
It’s weird, this time last week I was thinking about this, and I know I have learnt two things: dating statistics say that before you get into a relationship, you need to know what you want and don’t want from a partner and to do that you need to date and work you’re L.O.A, its all trial and error. Also, don’t blame your exes for your future actions. They are your choices.
Another wonderful post that hits close to my heart, Natalie! I used to be very very trusting, and think that just because I wouldn’t approach something one way, that everyone would be just the same! I was very wrong in my viewpoint, and I’m still learning.. 🙂
Great post, like all the rest. I learn something every time I come here to read. Trust. I noticed that I tell wayyyyyyyyyyyy to much about myself too early in the game with whomever. Particularly, if I feel comfortable and I am not talking after 6 months of getting to know a person, but right away. It seems as if these folks know just what buttons to push to get me comfortable. Then I notice that after maybe 3 months, the cold shoulder starts or the disrespect towards me. I believe that I am consistent with my behavior and accept me through out no matter how much dirt they tell me. This has happened more often than not. I don’t know who to trust at this point. Nat, I would love to hear your take on this.