In recent weeks, I’ve been speaking to several people who feel ‘powerless’ and ‘helpless’ in their relationships. In some instances, it was only after the relationship had ended that they recognised that there was a severe imbalance in the relationship that caused the other party to effectively hold position of power, or ‘the powerbase’.
Now it stands to reason that if you feel helpless, powerless, and that everything is on the other persons terms, you’re not the one holding the powerbase.
What I have tended to find in talking with people and the many emails and comments is that in poor and dysfuntional relationships, someone always has more power than the other. In the dynamic between Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, he holds the powerbase because he couldn’t fall back on or default to a woman unless she was allowing him to, or he had managed the situation through both obvious and subtle means to get the relationship to operate on his terms.
In a healthy relationship that involves two people with each other’s best interests at heart with both of their feet in the relationship, no-one has more power over the other. Yes, in risking yourself and actually being in a relationship where you are committed to each other and have shared your feelings, and love, trust, respect, and care about one another, you both have the power to hurt one another, but this is not ‘power’ in the sense of one person having the ability to control the dynamics and actions of the other person.
Sometimes the power is assumed. In this instance, for example, a Mr Unavailable blows hot and cold, which manages down the Fallback Girls expectations so that she learns not to want, need, or expect too much from him and when she does too much of any of these, she is effectively penalised with a rush of cold. Mr Unavailable is all about having the relationship on his terms and the struggle arises when you, the Fallback Girl try to get him to come around to your way of thinking and play more fairly.
Often the power is given. Many people are just waiting for someone to come along and validate them. They almost end up being in awe of their relationship partners and in having so little self-esteem and wanting to be the ideal person for them without actually questioning whether that person is even the ideal person for them, they immediately take an almost submissive role in the relationship.
Even if this doesn’t happen from the outset, the powerbase can end up being established either in the first and subsequent acceptances of bad behaviour or when there is conflict.
A classic example of this is when the ‘powerful person’ cuts off and disappears and they are welcomed back with little or no question, or even if there is an argument, a signal is sent that they can get away with it.
Likewise when the ‘powerful person’ ends the relationship, usually suddenly, and often for a ridiculous reason, and they turn the tables and have the other party practically jumping through hoops to get back with them, this also firmly establishes the powerbase.
If you have little or no boundaries in relationships, the other person will hold the powerbase because you basically are giving them carte blanche to do whatever the hell they like without fear of consequences.
If you love someone unconditionally who not only is unworthy of it but loves you conditionally, you give them the powerbase.
If you become someone who talks a good game but doesn’t back up with actions (empty threats, ultimatums, defining the relationship talks that never go anywhere), you do not hold the powerbase because you repeatedly send a signal to them that no matter what you say, you’ll be there yabbering on letting them do exactly what they want to do.
If nothing or very little you say or do causes anything to change, you have little or no power, or you just don’t know how to use it.
And actually, it’s not in healthy relationships where you need to be flexing your power muscles – it’s in the negative, self depreciating, life sapping, brain draining, mentally exhausting, drama filled relationships where you need to plug back into your power source (your sense of self) and get the hell out.
It’s very difficult to wrestle power off someone who has enjoyed the fruits of their power trip. They certainly don’t want to share the power because that dynamic doesn’t work for them as they wouldn’t be in control.
If you’re fighting someone who is struggling against being a decent person in a decent relationship, isn’t this a waste of energy? They’re not going to validate you, balance up the power, and then you both live happily ever after. Isn’t it better to figure out why you are giving up your power in the first place and build up some energy or use whatever little reserves you have within to do something so that you can get back to you?
The funny thing is that the best way you can stop being helpless and powerless is to recognise that you are actually more in control of this situation than you realise and to opt out. Someone cannot enjoy power over you when you’re no longer around to give it to them or you no longer do what they expect.
Yes, stop doing what they expect.
People who are very powerful are use to people doing what they expect from them and what they want.
They feel out of control when you deviate from what you have taught them to expect from you.
We teach people how to treat us and what to expect from us. If you don’t want to feel the misery anymore, you must start teaching them something different. Now. Not in a year when he’s met some arbitrary deadline in your head for him to ‘improve’ and has failed. But now. Because being happy isn’t something you plan for, it’s what you get on with doing now.
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Bravo…again!
RIGHT ON! I have since dumped my AssClown 4 months ago… but back in the throws of my relationship I never called him because when I did he gave me the “cold” voice…. you know the one when you know something is wrong or that he is just too busy…. not the sweet warm tone like he was glad to hear from me. I look back and realize I was really in a bad way in that relationship.
I agree with all that is written here. As always it’s insightful and good advice and deep down exactly what you already know. My problem is, and always seems to be, is how do you change? I was in a very messy relationship on and off for about 2 and a half years. He was always completely in control of it all and always made excuses for his behaviour. I knew he was treatly me badly but I loved him so much that I really couldn’t bear to believe that he didn’t really love me in the same way, it was easier to believe the excuses really – he had jsut got out of a marriage, he did have a child, he did need to “sort his head out”. To be honest, much to my embarrassement it wasn’t actually him making the excuses to me, well at least not full heartedly, but I soo so wanted him to love me that I jsut wanted to let it go and go back to the start when things had seemed so perfect. It was all pretty draining and completely damaging to my self esteem but the problem is that it’s now 8 months on and he still has the power. But he has moved on, appears to care very little about me now, but I still am so so affected by everything that he does, he still holds so much power over my emotions and I hate it. I just don’t know how to get out if it. I know that he’s not right for me, that I should be in a relationship where I feel equal and happy the majority of the time but I feel like such a failure without him, so rejected and unimportant. Shouldn’t he be realising what an eror he made and me deciding I deserve more? Isn’t that how these things are MEANT to work out?! But no, he just doesn;t care. I was coping ok ish with it all, but now having been on holiday for 6 weeks I have had to return to work and I’m having to face him again and it’s literally unbearable. It’s brought it all back again, I jsut feel so rubbish the whole time and I don’t know how this is going to get better. I can’t just leave my job like that, Im a teacher and have to stay till the end of the year really but I can’t bear another year of feeling like this. I wish I was stronger but I just don’t know how. And I guess that’s what I’m asking, from anyone! How do I take control of my life again, feel better about myself and most importantly feel nothing for him? Please help!
Carrie, I feel your pain, but I can only say what I have said before. I have posted here a lot the last eight months. Seek the truth, say it outloud, say it inside your head and know it. The man does not care about you in a meaningful way. It may be because he is unable to care about anyone, meaning he has deficiencies of character. Or it may be that he could not meet your particularly unique and valid needs. Regardless, it is what it is. This may seem trite but ….it still is the truth.
The AC I know cares bout me, but only because he used me to give some importance to his existence. Once I realized that he is not capable of giving anything in return I saw it for what it was…a relationship that would always drain me and never give me anything back to replenish all that I was giving.
And, being a practical sort, under all the fantasy that he would be able to come through for me, I knew that was no way to live. You know this too, now you just have to now the truth..this man cannot give you what you need,
Your needs are not anything demanding, it’s his ability in relation to your needs that is the problem. But wanting him to accept you, wanting him to think you are important, his validation of you…that is the essence of this essay by NML, and the very thing you need to look at and challenge.
He does not define you. No one defines you. You define you. From this day, till the day you die, you are the only one who truly defines you and your importance. No one else should hold that power over you. Someone who loves you may challenge certain behaviors, but they would never seek to make you feel worthless.
One thing this post made me think of is that unconditional love is most appropriate between mother and child. In adult relationships unconditional love should be a red flag warning that one person is accepting crappy behavior, turning the other cheek, and enabling an assclown to be an assclown. I was guilty of this with the AC and will never do this again, ever.
Crap. I just read NML’s last sentence and it felt good (The woman is wise and has an uncanny way of putting her finger exactly on the crux of the matter, doesn’t she?)
“Because being happy isn’t something you plan for, it’s what you get on with doing now.”
I so want to stop hurting. Carrie said, “My problem is, and always seems to be, is how do you change?” I mean I know that it boils down to NC and the determination to stay with it, but does it really have to hurt this much? Aphrogirl, you said 5 months (to my and Meant’s 1 week). I am so overwhelmed by the amount of hurt in between.
Aega, I will tell you this. Yes it hurts, like hell at first. Looking back now I can’t believe I got through it, it was that hard. And I have had some really painful things happen to me in my life.
Today I realized that I hope my daughter never ever has to go through what I went through. And I never went through such a thing till I did NC with the EUM. Nothing I have ever done with a person was harder, nothing.
It made me think it was a lot like beating a drug addiction. Anyone who is a recovered substance abuser will tell you how hard it was beating the addiction. And I think many of us can attest to the strength of the EUM addiction. But, we hit some bottom, we are here, and we are in recovery. Stay with it, it’s worth it.
One more thing, time is time is time. There will be times in your life that you hurt, maybe that is a lesson needing to be learned, to avoid ever going to that place where you can be hurt like that again.
We do not stay in any one state … happy, or sad or hurt or whatever our whole life. If what you are feeling now is hurt and pain then that is what you have right now But, it will pass. It may take longer than you wish but… it will pass.
Feeling insignificant in his life..that really..reallly hurts worst of all. His friends, his needs, his life matter more than you. Nothing you ever do to make him see ever makes a difference in the scheme of things, ever. So, why do we still love these men who do absolutely nothing for us except to make us feel inadequate, joyless, deficient , desperate, loveless, unworthy and ever so very, very sad 🙁
I feel as if I cannot feel anything good anymore, only a deep sense of loss. I do not like this dark, cold and weary place that I have come to.
@aphrogirl
“Yes it hurts, like hell at first. Looking back now I can’t believe I got through it, it was that hard.” It really does help to hear that. It’s not that I’m glad your experience had been so excruciating (I hope you know that because no one should ever suffer disappointments like this) and it’s not that misery loves company. It’s just then when I hit rock bottom like this and it’s impossible to imagine ever feeling better about it, words of encouragement from a person that knows how deeply this cuts go a long way toward gaining perspective.
Time does do its thing in the end, like you said. Tomorrow I’ll give myself an endorphin shot with a 10-mile run, which should eliminate moping till at least Sunday. And Sunday I’m firing pottery for the first time with friends I haven’t seen in 8 months. Busy is the key, isn’t it?
Oh. My. Goodness. Usually when I read your posts, NML, I am relating them to my exMM, whom I broke up with 2 months ago, and re-established NC a week ago. He is definitely an EUM, probably an AC, so it’s easy to relate almost everything on this site to him. However, this time I read your post twice – the second time I was thinking of my “room-mate/husband/SOâ€, who I have recently realized is EU and passive aggressive. This post relates well to him, too! I never really thought of my SO blowing hot and cold, managing down my expectations, etc, but he so clearly does!!!! NML, I *do* have a pattern of relationships with EUM’s. My SO also holds power over me.
“a Mr Unavailable blows hot and cold, which manages down the Fallback Girls expectations so that she learns not to want, need, or expect too much from him and when she does too much of any of these, she is effectively penalised with a rush of cold. Mr Unavailable is all about having the relationship on his terms and the struggle arises when you, the Fallback Girl try to get him to come around to your way of thinking and play more fairly.†– OK, this describes the interactions between me and my exMM, but also between me and my SO. This is really an eye-opener. I now have to think about applying your strategies to my SO as well. That will require a lot of reflection and energy, as we have children together, so more people will be affected by whatever outcome that’s decided upon.
@Aega – I agree with your opinion that this line is significant “Because being happy isn’t something you plan for, it’s what you get on with doing now.†We have a lot of work to do in the near future!!! Aphrogirl had talked about getting over our addictions to EUM’s, and I think the logical first step is to get over the addiction to the exEMR. Then the focus will be there for the primary relationship. I am looking forward to recovering from the exMM addiction enough that it doesn’t hurt so badly. You said to aphrogirl “words of encouragement from a person that knows how deeply this cuts go a long way toward gaining perspective.†– and I fully agree. Thanks so much again to NML and all who post here – I really can’t say that enough!!!
Oh, and Aega, enjoy your run and pottery firing!
You know, I was thinking that this post reminds me a lot of my ex husband, too. And I’ve been divorced for 9 years…. At the time I was married, I knew something was wrong, and I used to pray to be able to adapt and be able to live in that kind of relationship where one person holds the power…. I didn’t have the kind of help that now-a-days seems to be more available.
These words are just enforcing some of the conclusions that I had to come to all on my own all those years ago. Wow!
Thank you to NML for making this positive, honest information available so that people like me, who feel isolated or that they are the only one in this kind of relationship can really find the answers (or at least the start to their answers) that they are looking for!
My marriage and kids looked fine on the outside because I was bending and changing and submitting and keeping quiet to make sure that it all looked good to everyone else, but it wasn’t good. I was hurting and crying and living alone and very lonely in my own house. That is no way to spend a life time. I was being a very good mom, and did all the right things (and enjoyed a lot of it), but no one was looking after me or in a warm, honest caring relationship with me. That’s what I wanted from my husband, and I kept thinking it could get better, but these guys just don’t/can’t change!
Aega, yes, keeping busy really does help because the more you get outside yourself, it gives your heart a few moments of rest which helps in the healing process… doesn’t mean that you won’t hurt, but at least you’re giving your insides a reprieve… you know? Each time you go out and do another activity, you’re giving your heart a nice “break.” (so to speak) A healthy break.
Carrie,
Things really aren’t as hopeless as they seem, and I imagine you are closer to finding yourself that you might believe. Teachers see change all the time – the profession of teaching is to begin and to guide change.
What I think happened was that you *gave* yourself to this bozo. Coming from a marriage, unsure of who he is and what his needs are – you jumped in and gave away direction of your home life. You blessed him with your affection and trust, but he wasn’t ready.
As he begins his healing (he is still likely a couple of years from “stable”), he finds that he has you to comfort him and validate him – only he hasn’t earned it. He didn’t ask to guide your life, nor is he healed enough to do a credible job of it. He lost his marriage for a reason; apparently he is still hazardous relationship material, because with someone caring and interested in his life – he takes advantage of you without giving back, without earning your respect and trust with his every breath. He is in the position of having you available when convenient, and never worrying about losing you -that is, a tyrant. Perhaps you are satisfied that he isn’t brutal or otherwise intolerable, yet he isn’t acting as a partner to you at home.
How to change? You could decide to break off this part of your life and start over – move, look for work in another school district, cut contact with him and anyone he knows, change your online identity, etc.
But real change can begin with small, gentle changes, too. Since you don’t feel physically threatened, then you have an option to examine what you have done, and adjust a few things. I would look at how you relate to him. Your feelings are your own; I would keep in mind, though, that love is not eternal – it is only an invitation for today, to build a shared tomorrow. His sharing seems impaired, so I would start here by considering whether you give him love – or affection, and kindness, and comfort.
The change I would suggest to start with is to examine and understand your own feelings and commitment, and as time goes by be willing to consider adding a new direction or three to your life – say, hobbies, friends, family, etc.
And the first substantial change I would recommend is to look at your attachment to him. I think that he is still too unhealed from his marriage (and jumping into a relationship delayed that healing), so he is going to be going through changes – big changes – of his own. And no one knows what those changes will do to his life and relationships.
You gifted this man with the direction of your life, offered a shared life in a long term relationship. You left him responsible for finding a path to happiness for you both. Only he isn’t being there for you, and he isn’t taking you in a joyful direction.
Which brings us back to self esteem, and responsibility. You are responsible for finding joy in life. At present you are doing this by putting yourself in his hands, and it isn’t working well for you. So begin taking care of yourself first.
Look at what you apologize for, what you worry about because you fear it might annoy him – or lose his presence in your life. You are the only one that can determine what is necessary in your work, in your life. Sharon Lee and Steve Miller in their Liaden Universe SF novels hold “Necessity exists” as an overwhelming and indisputable force in their lives. In moderation, this is about self esteem, about taking control of our lives and considering anyone that stands between us and need – as an opponent.
I suspect that you will find what seems clear to me – that he doesn’t hold the power to control your life. You are still gifting him with yourself. That this is just a bad habit, like sucking your thumb, and not a genuinely shared life with a healthy and well adjusted, involved partner.
As for not leaving your job – can you talk to your superintendent and ask about being considered for transfer within the district, in the event an opening comes up?
Blessed be.
.-= Brad K.´s last blog ..ps: Boundaries – keep kids, romance safe. =-.
I’ve got my mobile back from my ex but one, not had to see him. Told myself I wouldn’t look at the call list … msg list … did … and I felt nothing much (not saying it won’t manifest later) but did realise something. New girl has morphed and FAST, and appears to like cricket (urgh) as well as horse racing (urgh!!!!!) and has picked up my baton as “getting him to sort things out” person. Who has the powerbase in that relationship?
Everything deleted from the phone, as to be honest I was just hacked off with being the one paying for any of the phone calls he was making to her.
***
About to go to my friend’s evening wedding do. Lovely wedding … I was so happy for them. Somewhere in the mix was the thought that he should have been sitting by my side, and last night I was full on back in love with him. Whoas, rewind… I started to have a conversation with him in my mind during which I said that since he loved the mirror he saw himself in with me, I also had only seen a reflection and fallen in love with it but that I was no longer said, I could see what I sent out. Then I said to him, and said it aloud to myself, “You really aren’t much use at all are you?”.
Seeing my friends marry, knowing all I do about them both, seeing how happy they were … I am realising how much progress I have made from the mess I was in. I am starting to understand the peace and calm that other women have mentioned and when there were readings of love and trust and contentment I found myself almost crying … not with the hurt, but with love for them both.
I know only a short while ago I couldn’t have had a day like this, with the mirage blinding me to positive things.
Who has the powerbase in my relationship? Well, it’s a relationship with myself, and it looks like I do.
Aega, thanks for talking about what you get out of running, and thus reminding and motivating me to get off my behind and get back into shape, Yet another thing that went by the wayside as I fell into depression with the depressing EUM. I am going to buy a goofy workout video and commit to it for a few weeks- never done that before.
We all know by now that exercise is one of the tools you can use to combat depression. Taking responsibility for doing healthy things with others and for ourselves is one of the ways we get our power and strength back.
Oh guys. I went looking for hurt today and I found it.
Amen- this post is incredibly spot on. Thank you!
@Aega – what happened????
@Meant
I’m back to square one. Allowed myself to get convinced to say goodbye in person. It was in a public place so nothing tawdry happened (I do apparently have enough integrity for that), but when I had thought I would pay for this with regrets I’s had no idea just how much it would hurt afterwards. You have all said it, breaking NC in any way for any reason makes it worse and brings back the worst of the pain, and I never doubted it. I don’t know whether I thought I was stronger than I am and could take the long view afterwards or whether I had been expecting that elusive “miracle” we had all hoped for at one point or another.
Well, neither one was the case. The lack of any physical concessions nothwithstanding, I did not hold it together while we talked. One good thing, I held it together better than he did, although I wonder how much of his version of “grief” were crocodile tears. Still, not one of my finest moments.
I’m just kind of numb right now, which beats the hard sobbing that wouldn’t go away for hours and ended in a horrendous headache. It’s 5 a.m. here and I’m going back to sleep, I’ve been up for hours and I’m so tied I can’t think all that clearly, and I need to be able to do that to plan my next step here.
Aega, one week of NC is such a small chunk of time in the big picture. I will remind you of some stuff, to reinforce what you already know.Of course you went to see him, in part, hoping he has had an epiphany about you two, that would be perfectly normal.
But, again, the lesson with the EUM/ AC/ whatever we want to call them.. is that unless both of you are committed, really committed to making the relationship work, including all the formidable obstacles in your particular situation, there is no way your heart can continue any more.
For the first two or three months of NC these words popped into my head, repeatedly “I can’t believe you would do this” addressed to the AC, meaning… I could not believe he would do what he did, to break the connection we shared, that I thought was so special. But , for all his complicated EUM/ AC reasons, he did break it. And know what? I know there were, and maybe still are, times when he knows how special that connection was.
BUT, and thats a big but :-)), turns out that a once in a lifetime special connection is just not enough. A special connection where person is wishy washy( or worse) about acknowledging that connection .. is something that does not work so well, like an intermittent faulty electrical connection. And those intermittent electrical things, those are the most difficult things to trace and thus repair. One person wishy washy is the perfect setup for the makings of a not so great fantasy. I think many men especially enjoy playing fantasy romance, it’s a game of sorts.
But when we try to make the whole connection thing real, thats when they freak out and their true colors show. Connection has to be backed up with fully committed actions all the way or its heartache for us, even though it may work for them.
So, in all my months of NC, even though a part of me could not believe he walked away from what we had, I continued to challenge that disbelief and remind myself that he, in fact, did walk away. Even if I showed him the path to walk away, he chose to take it.
I also have come to see that the disbelief about him choosing to walk was related to my own self confidence in assessing the situation accurately. And that confidence was also pretty shaken by the fact that a person I thought cared for me could turn on me like he did.
Well anyways, you held it together in your closure attempt, thats good. I never understood crimes of passion so much before the EUM, though I also doubt I’d ever lose it bad enough to do something drastic.
Give yourself time to recover from him. You loved him, you thought he loved you enough and that is not exactly how it was. That hurts and that hurt is universal, something many people encounter at least once in their lives. It takes time to accept it and get over it.
@Aega – I’m so sorry you were hurt by meeting with your exMM. Seeing them in person brings back all kinds of emotions, and you were so strong not to get involved physically with him (I wasn’t so strong in that area once I had seen my ex for 2 or 3 full days). I think it’s hard to realize that they are not fully committed to us, that they still hold their wives and family in higher priority, and that they are willing to give up the special relationship with us. You said you thought you were stronger than you are, and I can relate to that feeling, but the physical presence can be so overwhelming to one’s defences. After only a week or so of NC, you were just beginning to heal, and you were still reading his emails so still receiving communication from him, and not in that place of “indifference†that we hear prolonged NC can bring.
I remember feeling numb after seeing my ex in person, and after a night of crying. The numbness was actually helpful in making me want to return to NC, and to protect myself from further hurt by this man who does not have my best interests at heart. I hope it does the same for you. At the end of your meeting, had you come to any conclusions together? Did you gain any clarity? I’m glad you are getting some sleep today, and hopefully taking good care of yourself, because you will make better decisions if you are well rested and healthy. I wish you strength as you plan for your next step (of course I hope it’s going back to NC), and I send you many hugs.
@aphrogirl – I agree with your advice to Aega (and it was helpful for me, too, thanks). I love your analogies – the intermittent faulty electrical connection is a great way to look at the EUM relationship. You said “I continued to challenge that disbelief and remind myself that he, in fact, did walk away. Even if I showed him the path to walk away, he chose to take it.†– I am feeling this statement, too. Yesterday and today, I have been sad about the fact that my ex has not even sent me the files I need from him to post on that conference site. I did ask for NC (i.e., no personal communication), but he has taken it even further and he’s being NC for work purposes, too!!! And that hurts more than I would like it to, and it’s making me think about him more than I should. Can he really be so busy that he can’t take 5 minutes to send me a file I requested? I finally broke down and sent him a reminder email a few minutes ago, but now I am feeling like I’m likely to go back to obsessively checking my work email to see if he answered. Oh my, have I given him all the power, or what???
Hi girls,I need some advice.I just found out that my ex mother joined facebook.I thought about adding her but I think it might not be a good idea since there is a chance I might end up getting news about my ex trough her(like for example when she post her status or pictures of the family).Im realy fond of her and his family but I havent spoken to them since the first time me and him broke up.Anyway I think that maybe would be better wait until Im fully over him to get her as my friend on facebook but what I want to know is do you think I should write her a email? I never thanked her for all she did for me when I was with him and let her know how much I apreciate her and I was thinking that I should let her know that.She always was so sweet and caring with me and tried to make me fell welcome when I was at their house.Anyway you think is a good idea to write her a email to let her know that?
@Anusha – I think you already know you should not add her as a friend on Facebook, for the reasons you mentioned. As far as sending her an email, I guess it depends on your “real” reasons. If you truly feel a need to thank her, that could be OK, but if you are hoping she mentions the email to your ex, and that may prompt him to contact you, and you may wait for a text, then maybe not. Or if sending her an email will make you think of him more, maybe you shouldn’t. It all depends on your motives and expectations.
@aphrogirl – my exMM returned my email within the hour, told me how overwhelmingly busy he is at work and at home, and assured me that sending me the files was on his “to-do” list. In a little more time than what it took him to write that email, he could have made a pdf of the file and sent it. I will never understand this man!!!
Just wanted to say thanks Brad for your post, and aphrogirl too. You both talk a lot of sense and it was really helpful to read. Thanks for taking the time. I feel I need to think about some of the points that you raised – the unconditional love and the apropriateness of that and how to move my self forward. Thank you.
Anusha, if she did not ” invite” you to befriend her, I think you know the answer and see you suspect your intention is not so great on this Fact is, the mom is out of your life because her son is. And that will not change.
Mom is mature enough that she understands this, and if she is kind she does not need to be thanked for being a kind person to you.If you ever bump into her you certainly could thank her for making you feel welcome, that would be nice.I suppose if she was really extra kind and good to you, you could send a holiday card or something one time but..if it feels in any way like you are engaging in contact through her, ditch the idea.
I don’t get Facebook, it seems like a lot of it is keeping tabs on people who are not really in your life in a meaningful way. It almost seems to encourage lightweight acquaintances, or make a big deal out of acquaintances, which reminds me a lot of emotionally unavailable relationships.
Meant, I’d might be in your shoes if I worked with the EUM, but you hold the power over you as long as you stay away, as long as you are retraining yourself to not want him in your life anymore.
If you could finish the work project without his files, ( and maybe this means the project would not be as good as it could, but would still be OK) I would do that and not give him more thn one professional reminder.
And then if he did not come through I would know that any in work project in the future it would be hard to depend on him because he’s struggling to hold power over you in this juvenile and unprofessional manner.
Working with boys is such a PIA .
Thank you meant and aphrogirl 🙂 My intention is realy just thank her and let her know I apreciate all she did to me.I even hope that she doesnt coment with him about the email to not make him think that Im using it as a excuse to get to him or something like that.About befriend her on facebook,I agree isnt a good idea right now.Not for her but more because of my ex.I think with me exchanging messages or seeing her pictures I would end up getting to know about him and I realy dont want that.I blocked all his updates so I have no idea what is going on his life for the past 4 months and I plan to continue like that until Im over him.It helps me to move on like that.
About sending the email,I just fell like I should send it.I think is important that she knows that and that I have no hard fellings with her.My problem was with her son,it was him that wasnt nice to me.But somehow it end up reflecting on her since I distanced myself from her once the relationship was over(what is normal on a break up and that I think that she understands like aphrogirl said)but I think would be a good idea to let her know how I fell.
Hey Aega,
Before I knew how to stick to “no contact” maybe back last November, I was trying all the time to break it off with the MM, but he would always come back with intentions and promises (and vagueness)…. after I had succeeded with NC for maybe 4 or 5 weeks, He, last Nov, initiated a “meeting” where he said he knew that I needed to hear some clarity from him….. so, I broke NC and let him come over to talk to me. It felt terrible, really, but I let him in, and then he started with “Well, I guess you really need to hear something from me….” (vague) And then he talked about how great I was and how I’m the best thing that has ever happened in his life, and he is in love for the first time in his life for real, and he wants to “marry” me and he even mustered up some tears, which might have been genuine… I don’t know. But, but, but…. he still didn’t say anything that I needed to hear. I still had such a love for this man, but he was only hurting me by saying all these things to me without any action on his part to back up all these blubberings. (which I now refer to them as…) We ended up being physical, just because that was what I had grown used to, and I really enjoyed it because I had NEVER experienced anything like that in my marriage, ever…. but, he went home, and I had to go back to hurting and doing the no contact thing He has shown up in my life a few other times since then, but I have been able to finally get him to stop because every time he showed up (acting innocent) I ended up being the one to feel bad, not him. He got to go home and have a relationship with his woman, and I had to pick myself up and get over him, yet again (although it got easier every time)
I guess it doesn’t matter if we initiate that last meeting, or they do… they still are all the same in that they don’t have anything concrete to say that shows us that they will commit to both feet in a relationship. As hard as it was for me to finally admit it, I realize that he wanted to have his cake and to eat it too… (what is that expression?)
It was horrible to admit that I had let myself become that, but time passes, we forgive ourselves, and life gets better.
I don’t know. Reading about everyone’s different stories, but seeing the similarities is just good medicine for me to know that I did the right thing by ending it.
I still sometimes wish he would show up at my door and say “I did it, I’m divorced, I have an apartment, I’ve come to be your full-time man, I can’t live without you!….” but would I really want that now, knowing what I do? I doubt it.
You’re all doing so well. Keep getting back up and getting on with life!
Power and NC: I think, no matter how much we try to disguise it, the stating that one is NC, but yet continues to check emails, voicemails, contact his friends, family, and co-workers etc . . .it is not NC. And it keeps us hoping, wishing, praying, that something has changed or will change. And it keeps us focused on him rather than on ourselves.
I am not pointing fingers, because I did the same thing. I also, when I run into him – even though I don’t speak – look to see if he still has on his wedding ring. Then, I comfort myself with the thought that at least he is still married and hasn’t left BW for who I suspect is now the OW. What is that? That is me still hoping, wishing, praying . . .
And, it means that I am still letting him have too much power. And, it means that I am not over him.
This is why NC assists us in getting back our own power. I mean, it does in the sense that if practicing a behavior eventually leads to a change internally, then, in theory and practice, NC should work.
I was doing so well with NC for a whole week and I literally just broke it about half an hour ago. He emailed me asking bout his son, so I called him back and I just couldn’t help but ask all these stupid questions that were completely irrelevant. I just wanted to know if he had someone else or whatever (keep in mind it was only last week we decided to completely end our on and off relationship and only contact one another when it was bout our son) .. I just could not help myself. Anyways while we were on the phone I justfelt that he had allthe power saying things like if you don’t change ur attitude then I won’t show you my true feelings. He was the one setting the rules and making me feel like nothing. I mean I know that he is right when he says we have no rights over each other but it kills me to think that in one week he doesn’t have these feelings for me anymore and all of a sudden he doesn’t care and is the one setting the rules. Help…
@aphrogirl – “you hold the power over you as long as you stay away, as long as you are retraining yourself to not want him in your life anymore.†– I like this perspective, thank you. I want him less and less in my life as time goes on. You are right, working with boys *is* such a pain, but trying to have a relationship with them is a thousand times worse!!!
@lisa – thanks again for reminding us that it is possible to break away eventually, even with some breeches of NC. The vagueness you speak of has very much been a part of my interactions with the exMM. Mine said “I think you are looking for something†and “I have been bad not to tell you how I feel, like I promised I wouldâ€, and “you’re the best thing that’s ever happened to meâ€, and “I do love you, and I have not loved many people in my lifeâ€, and “I will love you until I dieâ€, and “I would want you for my life partner if the timing had been right or if our circumstances changeâ€, and so on, and so on. Mine never cried, but just had a very “sad little boy†look when I spoke of leaving him. Just enough to keep me hanging on, but again, nothing that I needed to hear.
“We ended up being physical, just because that was what I had grown used to, and I really enjoyed it because I had NEVER experienced anything like that in my marriage, ever…†– and that is exactly why I was unable to resist my exMM at the conference – he did for me what no man ever has before, and I wish that wasn’t the case!!! I am so glad that, as you said, each time you go back to NC, it gets easier to leave them.
@Angelina – I know you spoke of not being in NC because of checking email, but I *have* to check my work email, and that is where I am expecting to hear from him for work purposes. But you are right, I am taking his tardiness in getting back to me with that file personally, and I probably wouldn’t do that so much if it was a different colleague that I hadn’t been involved with for the last year and a half. And yes, I did really want him to reply – more so than if it had been someone else. Now that he has answered me and I know it’s “on his to-do listâ€, I don’t feel as distracted, and I’m better able to focus on me and the things I need to get done.
My exMM doesn’t wear a wedding ring, as he said it hurt his finger and led to callouses when he worked at his old job. So he took it off, and he said his wife cried for 3 days, then just accepted it. I never even liked the fact he didn’t wear a ring, as it made me feel he seemed available to other women, and it bothered me (wow, how insecure am I?). “And, it means that I am still letting him have too much power. And, it means that I am not over him.†– I guess there are many of us right there with you Angelina. BTW, I’m just curious (hope you don’t mind me asking)– are you and your husband “just roomies†now, too? Or still together?
I’d also like to point out he made me feel like I needed to follow his rules cos if I don’t we will never have a chance again. I mean I kno that I don’t ever wanna get back with him considering all the lies and deceit that he put me through but with the strength that he showed me before made me feel like I did. I felt like because he no longer wanted me I should chase after him. Honestly I feel like it should not be him callin the shots on when we get back or not
@bbylove – if you want to maintain NC and maintain power, you must resist asking him those questions that could lead to pain for you. NC is NC, and if you *need* to talk about your son, that is one thing, but if you then go onto other topics, that is not NC.If you have decided to end things by starting NC, it shouldn’t matter if he has someone new, it doesn’t matter what his feelings are, you should be focusing on yourself and healing. If you want to call the shots, stay NC. It’s hard as hell, it hurts like hell, but as all who post here have said, it’s the only way. Best of luck to you.
Thanks for the advice meant to be happy. You’re completely right I will be able to call the shots if I stay NC. And yes it does hurt like hell but it will be worth it in the long run.
LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT!! Like I have said to myself before:
If a man can’t see the value In me and doesn’t treat me right is stupid enough to not be called a real man so he can go hang himself off the bridge if he wishes because he is not worth my time or effort into pursuing any kind of relationship with him. PERIOD!!!
Damn I feel so VERY empowering today!!! ALL ASSCLOWNS GET OUT OF MY WAY!!!!
Thanks for this post NML. I have been giving this very thing a lot of thought lately after a comment G made about her boyfriend “being in charge.” I thought it was silly to assume that someone has to be in charge and then realized that this is why she is in another relationship with yet another EUM. Her low self-esteem leads her to believe that someone else because she is not capable of calling the shots in her own life. She just doesn’t trust herself to do so.
Anyway, hadn’t commented in awhile and wanted you to know that I truly appreciated the post.
I have just received a voicemail message on my mobile from my long standing assclown. I have been seeing him for 22 months [since November 2007] and he always told me he never wanted a relationship. On top of that he hardly ever took me anywhere, and whenever we did go anywhere it was always me who instigated it [and paid]. Basically, i let this poor excuse of a man use me for all that time and i got miniscule crumbs in return. And very poor treatment at times.
Then in June this year, he randomly announced that he had a girlfriend!!!!!!!! [remember, he told he he was not looking for a relationship with anyone] And get this! He explained to me that he had always faniced a particular girl since the age of 21 [he is now 33] but nothing happened between them back then. But in May this year, he randomly bumped into her on the street and he asked her to be his girlfriend on the spot. They did not even court and they had not seen each other in 12 years!!! And she accepted his girlfriend invitation.
Well, this man has continued to sleep with me since the arrival of his new girlfriend. I hated myself for doing this but i just couldn’t stop it. It was like i was addicted to him, the sex and the physical attraction. But the more i continued to see him, the more i became disgruntled at having to be his SIDE SHAG whilst some other girl [who, unlike myself, has invested zero time in him] takes the glory of being his official girlfriend who gets to be paraded in front of his friends and family.
So when he called me last week for a booty call, I TURNED HIM DOWN. Because i rejected him [i rarely do] he told me not contact him again. But i did. In fact, i was so angry and hurt by the disrespectful way i’ve been treated for 22 months, i started to text him everyday since our phone-call, sending at least 3 a day! I know girls! I turned *psycho* on his ass, telling him how hurt i am about him taking up with the new girl, and it felt like a dagger to my heart. I also accused him of being cold and selfish and having no consideration for me and my feelings. I also told him that him and the girl will not last and that he is going to miss me and want me back in his life. I couldn’t help myself. I knew sending him all these texts was the wrong thing to do but i felt compelled.
I received NO reply whatsoever to my texts….. until today! after i sent him yet another 2 texts. The last time we were together [around 2 weeks ago] he was telling me that he would like to be having sex with me long into the distant future [even around 10 or 20 years from now]. I did not say anything at the time, but today his words crossed my mind and i became angry. Since he has made it clear in no uncertain terms that we will never be a proper couple, I felt that he was assuming i was going to be dumb enough to continue being his secret side-shag for the next 20 years of my life.
So my 2 texts this morning addressed this issue and i told him that he was absolutely crazy and he would never get me to waste my life, fulfilling his pathetic pipe dream as his bit on the side [whilst he gets on with is life, building a proper life with another woman], and if he was going to be sleeping with me 10 or 20 years from now, it would be because we were HUSBAND AND WIFE, not as a side shag!
As soon as the texts were delivered, he immediately called me, but i did not answer. He then left a voicemail message on my mobile telling me that my all texts are now pissing him off and we need to go our separate ways. I replied, cursing and swearing at him, telling him i’m glad i finally pushed him over the edge. I also told him to leave me the f**k alone now from now on.
Needless to say, he never replied to that one!
I have his girlfriends phone number and for a hot second i felt like calling her an telling her all about me and him. I even dialled her number but there was no reply. Now, i have thought against contacting her as i know it’s not going to bring me any satisfaction.
I hate myself right now, for being such an idiot to let a man treat me so badly for the last 22 months. This is not my pattern at all!! I still don’t understand how this man got to get away with murder. I am usually a woman of high self esteem, high expectations and firm boundaries. I know it sounds hard to believe but i am actually used to good treatment from guys!
HOW DID THIS HAPPEN TO ME????????????
When i used to tell my friends about me and him, they’d look at me like i am MAD to stay with him. I started to feel judged so i stopped talking to them about us.
I really do hope i will be able to forgive myself, as i feel so ashamed to have allowed such blatant liberties to take place.
But now that I FINALLY got a reaction from him after all those texts, i feel like i can start to heal and move on now. [yes i know that sounds pathetic as i should not have to wait for him to tell me to leave him alone before i decide it’s over].
Day 1 of “No Contact†starts tomorrow.
Wish me luck girls! I am about to go cold turkey. I feel it’ll be successful though because i have now angered him so i dont think he’ll be contacting me now anyway. And i am now too embarrassed to dare contact him again.
On the other hand, we have gone through worse incidents in the past and we still got back together so i really don’t know for sure whether or not he’ll try contacting me again in future.
If that time does roll around, i really do hope i will have the strength
to tell him to go to hell.
But for sure, my assclown has always had the power in his possession. And whenever i attempt to share the power, he blows cold.
I believe its his defence against being vulnerable, and he has admitted to not never wanting to repeat the experience of being hurt as he did in the past, [by another woman].
My assclown’s heart is surrounded by a wall of stone and woe betide anyone who attempts to chip away at his defences!
He even calls himself “the destroyer” and has admitted to being his own worst enemy, but i don’t think he has the tools to change this.
He has told me i have the power to hurt him and I have explained to him that not letting people get close to him has its good points in that it defends against people hurting him, but the downside is that he cannot allow himslef to receive love. He agreed with me but has done nothing else to change the status quo.
In a nutshell he is unwilling to take down his stone wall and therefore is not ready to receive my love. So i am breaking my bones each tine i attempt to hurl myself at the wall, so to speak.
The only left to do is wish him well and walk away. Because i know he will be back.
And i am certain that his so called “relationship” with this girl is not going to last. But why should i care, right??
Aa long as i make sure i do not become the fall back girl when it all goes belly up.
I have been reading posts on this site for a few months now, but I must admit that although NML seems to ALWAYS be on my street (I swear she’s eavesdropping on me or sumthing) I guess I was not ready (until now) to realize and accept that the man I thought I loved, is indeed an EUM and will never change! I met my EUM in 1997 (12 YEARS!?!) when I was 24 and he 27; and from the start it was an emotional roller-coaster that I would get on and off of. This dude even managed to get married during this 12 year timeframe (while I was ‘off’ of the ride), but ALWAYS blew on the coals by calling now and then to catch up, etc.(I would never call him and threw away his number, but he had mine; in hindsight I shoulda told him to kick rocks and kiss my entire azz). When the marriage inevitably ended guess who he calls? Me – the Fallback Girl (NML you have this stuff down to a tee – are you psychic??? – for real tho?). Anyway, I was all too available and happy (thinking “finally he sees the error of his ways”) and let him back into my world (that btw was peaceful). Well – same shit, different decade, however, I aint no sprung chicken anymore and do not have time for the bullshit. I want a partner! A man who is capable of loving me in return and who wants me like I want him. This dude aint it. I am attempting NC cuz I know that I cannot do this anymore. Nothing specifically happened, its just the same crap – inconsistency, not keeping his word with simple shit like calling, etc. The more and more this occurs I am becoming less and less interested in him – which is great. I even stopped the sex b/c I no longer am interested in anything undefined or casual – with ANYBODY! I even told him this and he still says things that makes me think maybe he’s interested, but his actions are what I am now going with – cuz what he is saying is hot trash. I keep telling myself “people do what they WANT to do” and “if a man wants you and loves you nothing would stop him” – it stops me from making excuses for him when he lets me down. I guess I am still a bit disappointment b/c like many of you have written, he and I had crazy chemistry and always had the best time together (he’s said this himself too), but I know myself better now and I know that it’s not enough. These things pale in comparison to the things that are truly important – respect, caring, trust – things that I simply do not see or have in him. I am truly learning to love, value and respect myself first! Sorry my post is so long, but I am so thankful for this site and for all of you that share your stories – its all been a great help 🙂
Just to let you all know,I sent the email to the mother of my ex.It was short and mainly just said that I apreciated all that she did for me and for making me fell so welcome on her house and with her family the times I was there.Thanks for all that adviced me btw,I fell good about it like if I did the right thing 🙂
I thought I’d share something with you.
The wedding I went to. I have loved this man for many many years, as a friend and a person, he is kind and generous and an all round decent guy, He was crapped on from a great height by his ex, and we lost touch for a while because I knew I had to eitgher knock this women’s block off and risk offending him, or opt out.
I met his mother for the first time at the wedding and she went into raptures of sorrow about the way his ex had treated him … she was Narc, pretty sure about it. However, he’s met a kind and caring woman and watching them marry had a very profound effect on me.
So did flying back home this evening, although a couple of days in the UK has definitely retarded my learning of the language.
Anything is possible. Anything.
I also met someone at this wedding (read:set up friends) I definitely played this extremely cool as various of my notice getters were lit up but I am telling myself these are red flags = musician of course. I deliberately did NOT take any contact details for him but gave him the address to find me on Facebook if he can be bothered. If not then fine … I admit to rather hoping he does having said that, but I also made a point of not being too available.
For someone as shy as me, I had a lot more confidence this weekend and I relaxed into being me more – this is the me shelved and put aside so I could morph. What an idiot … well no, not really, unless I do the same things again blindly.
@aphrogirl,Meant, and lisa
What each one of you said means more than you can imagine. What I did yesterday is such a mix of naïveté and an addicts behavior that on one hand I can’t believe I did it and on the other hand it was such a “me†thing to do.
I love this man more than I can describe. When I get angry or hurt I am able to stuff the other emotion down, but it doesn’t last. I have a fatal flaw – I take people at face value. I’ve known this to be a handicap longer than I’ve known that it’s so ingrained in my psychological make-up that I will never be rid of it but can only hope to learn to work around it.
Here’s a little more than you ever wanted to know about Asperger’s – the current theory is that feelings in an AS version of a person develop unobstructed by social convention and therefore much faster and unequivocal, and there is no perspective or internalized context to keep them from taking root whether they are destructive or not (I’m paraphrasing here but that’s the gist).
I know this and use intellectual rather than emotional rationalization to cope with it. It helps that I’m proud and stubborn as hell so that it’s easy to put the face of convention on the things I feel and do. It takes a lot of work. Ironically, I have successfully taught classes on cultural diversity and adaptation as well as group dynamics; lacking the intuition of how to fit into most group settings naturally, learning by observation has been a survival skill for me. I think the reason that folks I interact with daily tell me stuff they won’t tell others and actually ask my advice is that I have become perceptive by default and am able to assess other people’s interactions with one another pretty accurately (you know, those who can’t do – teach…)
Unfortunately, it’s a skill I can’t apply to myself. I seem to only read body language, for example, when it has nothing to do with me. I have also been known to do and say unbelievably heartless things because I had no idea at the time that they were having that kind of effect on the person I was with. In fact, when some of you wonder in retrospect about some of the more puzzling things that your exes did in the course of your relationship, I frequently relate. So much between people seems to go wrong out of cluelessness. The key, however, is to recognize when you hurt someone and fix it (in other words, don’t blame it on AS if you commit the same arse-clownery again and again).
The point is that in my case I have a stronger tendency than most to give the other person the benefit of the doubt, since I’m never really sure that I “translated†what happened between us correctly. That and I just abhor negative emotions. I forgive everyone eventually. It doesn’t make me a doormat, mind you, because fool me once shame on you, fool me twice etc. But I can’t stay angry as I relate so much to being an unintentional ass sometimes.
Being able to define what one feels isn’t a skill everyone possesses to the same degree. Aphrogirl, your analogy of the electric current is so damn accurate. It not only captures the dynamic of the way I think attraction works for most of us in the beginning, but it also describes what it takes to turn an intermittent electric current into a functional circuit. You said that when there is a faulty, intermittent connection, it is “the most difficult thing to trace and thus repairâ€. That probably explains why there are more disasters than healthy relationships.
To continue your analogy from a little different angle: let’s say you like what you feel when there is that connection and you do want it to become a permanent circuit. But you don’t know how or are afraid to have it blow up in your face, and you are already a part of a previously built circuit – not as strong as the one you are feeling with this new person, but a stable one. You have options – you make up your mind to give it a go or you walk away. Or you waffle and bounce back and forth between the two circuits, unsure whether this other person is really, really, for sure going to meet you half way. You give them escape paths, showing them in how many places the circuit can break, then pull them back in because the connection is still there and you don’t seem able to give it up. And because you know squat about electric circuits in the first place, at the first sign of trouble you run like hell so that your eyebrows won’t get singed. You said, “Even if I showed him the path to walk away, he chose to take it.†Basically (and I’m really beating your analogy to death here 🙂 but it is such a strong visual for me), you were the person that knew how to build a stable circuit. You had shown him what would work, but also – as any responsible electrician – you explained the risks. All he heard or chose to hear were the risks. There’s no way to know whether it was because he was weak or afraid or too comfortable in his previous arrangement. Any of those reasons, however, would have given a relationship a shaky foundation. You saw that, and made the wise decision to walk away.
I guess my point now is that I don’t know who screwed up in my disaster. I know that it really doesn’t matter since the bottom line is that nothing stable or healthy can happen between us. It’s bad enough if one person can’t sustain the connection, it’s impossible when both are incapable of it. But the not knowing leads to endless second-guessing for me and I remember how he and I had talked about this, and every time I think of something he had done to hurt me, I think of something equally painful I’d done on another occasion.
Tuesday I get on a plane. I don’t want to go back, but I have to. One reason is that getting fired would probably complicate a lot right now 🙂 but I also need this distance from both men to figure out who I am and what I want. Leonine had said very wisely that one needs the distance to “clear the fogâ€. I actually told my MM as much. Everything else is getting shelved right now. I explained the NC as vital for me to get my head straight. I asked him to not try to “fix†anything right now, ask me to come back, nor make any emotional decisions himself. Soul mates or not (he said he felt sappy using the word but did anyway), current circumstances are what they are. Maybe one day I “find myself†and he leaves his marriage because it isn’t right for him, but I don’t either one of us to base that on the other. One person leaving their marriage for the other would push the power balance in their direction, with the other becoming the main cause of something so destructive. In the meantime I need NC and moments of sanity like the one I’m feeling right now. The hurt will come again and stay but I’ve got to get off this see-saw.
If it’s any consolation Aega this is a pattern it seems that everyone goes through. Hurts more second time round. However, what you have posted above is total poison.
NC. Properly.
(I should say: I chose to say this to Aega deliberately but perhaps without the understanding that I know Aega will understand what I am saying as being said in support it looks really harsh. It isn’t – it’s short for a reason and she will know exactly why I am saying this is poison aka she already knows what medicine is needed, I am encouraging her to take it and to stop betting on potential. I already know that the happy and positive things I am posting above won’t resonate yet with many people).
aega you wrote..'” I don’t know who screwed up in my disaster. …It’s bad enough if one person can’t sustain the connection, it’s impossible when both are incapable of it. But the not knowing leads to endless second-guessing for me “”
Doubts, hesitations and insecurities are part of life, and even more so in complex situations like yours. But be clear here, you asked him, at your mom’s prodding, to make the choice, to take a stand, to be with you, and he gave you his answer.
He can waffle all he wants now, as can you, say things in hindsight, wish things were different..but when the time came for him to address that very serious question you posed, he gave you his answer.
I would bet that if you posed it to him again, give him another chance to make a choice, he would still waffle. Hell, he is capable of making the choice on his own right now, last night, last month.
It’s not you, even if you expressed some doubts as you asked, ( as you should in your situation !!! ) It is not you. You are the one who finally took a stand by trying to make the relationship a real and whole and healthy one.
The only thing that would change it for you is if he made the very clear choice to be with you. Don’t forget, you are only one week in NC. Listen and believe me as I tell you again that it is taking me months to mentally detangle from this kind of relationship where you thought you had something more than you did.
Denial raised its head in all kinds of forms, some just like this, for many weeks for me. Your perception of how you relate is not the issue. We are all different and unique in our approaches.It is nothing you said or did not say. He may be miserable and wish it was different too. But, the facts remain.
Letting go and the loss of something so cherished is so very hard, but it really is only the truth that sets us free. I don’t cry so much anymore but this really damn sad fact of life is making me teary eyed. Just for a minute though cause now I know my tears come for something that was not really what I thought it was.
Good post, as usual. I’m still in NC mode. Or I should honestly say…he is. I’m not doing so well these days, but I have no escape from this depression and pain. It’s just something that I have to deal with. I’ve tried to stop looking for “signs”. There will be none. It’s just hard to think that he could walk away like this…with nothing. I know, I’ve probably said this before. It is not a good thing to feel this way. Useless and rejected…but I do. While he settles in to his new comfortable home and social life with his “lady he’s been looking for”, I find myself trying to disappear and not stand out so much as a bad memory for him. He still has the power over me…and doesn’t even care to have it. I should have known from the beginning this would be the way it ended. I am fooling myself in saying I’ve taken my life back. He had been divorced for a little better than a year after several years of separation…I walked in at truly the worst time. He was still complaining about the wifey thing and I couldn’t see. Now all I can see is his face and I still miss him in my world. I’m not sleeping at all now and he’s gone on with his life…knowing that I had hoped to share my life with him. I wonder what he thought I’d be doing now? Probably doesn’t care…waiting to be able to tell me he’s got what he wants in someone else. That would be rich. I will avoid it like the plague, because I’m not strong enough to hear him actually say goodbye.
Damn…
@Aega
Aphrogirl’s words are wise (and not monsterously hungover, so also not disordered). More than ever, I repeat what has oft been said: NC means NC (even when you have to discuss some things) and it does hurt but you don’t have to act on things.
Imagine, or relate to experience of, the loss through bereavement of someone you loved and miss. There are many parallels – if mirage man had been hit by a truck when running ht long before the flapping about started I’d have raged to the skies and mourned something real as far as I knew. I’d never have known the truth, but it would have healed normally because everyone has to die some time or another. People would have understood and symapthised for a long long time.
This is not normal and people can’t empathise – though my heart is sad to think this is what will become normal as more and more people accept such crap into their lives.
I’m choosing to look at the light not the darkness and to accept it was all just flimflam. Yes I was fleeced but it’s shown me where never to tread again but I am not going to look behind me forevermore.
My life, your lives, lies ahead of me and you. Are you going to waste even more of it clinging to what CAN NOT BE in any healthy way?
@Jetred this is a stage in the process it too shall pass but I strongly recommend you to have a chat with a therapist about your issues, you’re pinning it all on this guy as some golden boy with a particular NEED to tell YOU … na. He’s doing whatever he is doing and you want him to be really happy about it so he does not come looking for you.
@Meant. His wedding ring caused a callous? It was the wrong size then – in this circumstances you fix the ring/accept that there is a callous which shows where you put up with something through love or whatever: you don’t just take it off and that’s ok unless you are truly married in your heart. I like this guy less and less the more I hear about him.
@Aega and Aphrogirl:
I disagree.
“You said, “Even if I showed him the path to walk away, he chose to take it.†Basically (and I’m really beating your analogy to death here but it is such a strong visual for me), you were the person that knew how to build a stable circuit. You had shown him what would work, but also – as any responsible electrician – you explained the risks. All he heard or chose to hear were the risks. There’s no way to know whether it was because he was weak or afraid or too comfortable in his previous arrangement. Any of those reasons, however, would have given a relationship a shaky foundation. You saw that, and made the wise decision to walk away.”
My mirage also LITERALLY would say “here is your escape hatch” then say it was slammed shut again. It gave me a false sense of security. It really wasn’t even a red flag: mission control was flashing all screens red and the abort siren was going, I just hadn’t had the training to know it. I am posting this purely as counterpoint for someone coming here and reading for the first time and thinking “oh this is a good thing” and being reassured when really they might well have been played by someone who learned how to control, manipulate and manage expectation in this way.
@SlowlySurely – it sounds like you are taking NML’s information and suggestions to heart. You are tired of the roller coaster, you are looking at his actions now instead of his words, and you are going NC so he can’t reel you back in again to be his FBG. I wish you all the best as you take this next step.
@Anusha – I’m glad you feel like you did the right thing re: the email to your ex’s mother.
@Butterfly – I’m glad the wedding was a positive experience for you. An increase in confidence, and feeling like you are back to being yourself is also fantastic! (you’re shy? I wouldn’t have guessed).
I agree, the fact my exMM took off his wedding ring instead of getting it re-sized bothered me, too. Even the way he coldly described his wife crying for 3 days bothered me.
@Aega – “Being able to define what one feels isn’t a skill everyone possesses to the same degree.†– yes, that is so true. Also, some people are more afraid than others of any risks that may come about from a certain course of action, which seems to be the case with your exMM. What you wrote above that makes most sense to me is “the bottom line is that nothing stable or healthy can happen between us.†You *know* that in your mind, but you may need to realize that in your heart, too, which will take longer. “In the meantime I need NC and moments of sanity like the one I’m feeling right now. The hurt will come again and stay but I’ve got to get off this see-saw.†– yes, NC is what you need, and if the 2,000 miles between you and these 2 men makes things easier and more clear, then all the better. I hope you have a safe flight back, and that the withdrawal symptoms become less intense faster this time around.
@aphrogirl – “Letting go and the loss of something so cherished is so very hard, but it really is only the truth that sets us free.†– excellent point, and lately, I have been trying to think of what is the truth in my own situation. I think it was you that said a while ago that when you think of your exEUM you tell yourself things like “___ is not interested in loving me in a meaningful wayâ€. I have been doing that lately re: my exMM. Oh, and he finally sent that file I needed last night (on a Sunday, no less). The interesting part is he just sent it as an attachment, with no explanation in the body of the email, just the attachment. As I said before, I will never understand this man!!!
@Jetred – oh Sweetie, that’s awful you’re not sleeping, and still focusing so much on what he’s doing (I know, I am guilty of that too). Are you doing things to take care of yourself? Exercising, eating well, spending time with friends? By going NC, *you* have said goodbye to *him* and you can get on with your own life now. If your subconscious is telling you something is wrong (insomnia), can you consider going to talk to a counsellor? It just sounds like he is getting on with his life, and you haven’t got on with living life for *you* yet. Hugs to you..
@everyone – on Saturday night, I went to visit some old friends with my SO. It went OK, but I could tell he didn’t really want to be there. Then last night, we were hanging out with one of our daughters, and he started to criticize me, and I became quiet and withdrawn. He called me on being negative (which is VERY unlike me – I am always the cheery one in the house while he has prolonged periods of being down and negative) so I went into my room to read a book. He later knocked on the door, came in to see why I left, and when I told him how I felt when he criticized me, he just suggested another way that I could have changed. He didn’t acknowledge my feelings at all, just wanted to make another point. He saw I was upset and went to hug me, but I told him I didn’t want a hug from him. I am sick of letting him have all the power, and did not want to be placated. I don’t like this conflict in our house, which will cause tension that our daughter will feel today, but at least I am starting to show how I’m really feeling instead of continuing in my role as the ever-positive, tolerant peace-maker. It’s time for me to deal with the power inequities in this relationship, and figure out where to go from here. Wish me luck…
Meant to be Happy, I wish you all the luck trying to figure out which way to go. I’m really glad you shared that you are married…. it just helps us to get the whole picture of the journey you’re going through.
I think finally letting your feelings known and not just faking cheeriness to keep the family happy is the right thing. It gives your husband a chance to see your sadness and really work through this to a happier marriage, and then if he can’t do that, you have your answers… you know?
My ex husband (long after I had finally given up and already been divorced) said that while we were married, I should have stood in the doorway every single day and never let him leave the house until he understood how sad I was and I should have demanded change from him until he finally woke up.
Not my personality to do that, and actually… maybe good advice, but way too late. I thought he should have been able to see the sadness in my eyes, and the fact that I lost so much weight and couldn’t eat and had started drinking (when I had never been a drinker)…. No, he needed me to stand in the doorway and shout my unhappiness to him every day in order to notice. I’m sorry, but that wasn’t a marriage (in my eyes). I was withering away before his eyes, and as long as my mouth was shut and I didn’t say things out loud he didn’t have a reason to notice…. that wasn’t cool. He had the power, and I had no voice strong enough to shout at him.
So, you are at that point where if you can hear why I’m telling you what my ex husband said….. maybe it is time to shout to your man HEY, I NEED A CHANGE FROM YOU, FROM US, OR I CAN’T STAY HERE!’
I don’t know…. it is easier to talk about it now that I’m not there anymore, but I read your posts and I almost want to cry for the feelings that come back.
There was another woman, I think it was Gail, who used to post here a bit who had the same story and was still married, but she was older and had been married a very long time, and just couldn’t see how to get out of it even though she was very sad.
I hope she is still reading and might give an update one of these days…
Even if you don’t know what to do or where to go yet, just reading that you’re not alone really helps.
Feeling like you’re the only one in a sad marriage is pretty much the loneliest place in the world.
Aega-“In the meantime I need NC and moments of sanity like the one I’m feeling right now. The hurt will come again and stay but I’ve got to get off this see-saw.”
I agree with you,I think that going NC and getting some distance is the best you can do now.You need to figure out what you realy want and concetrate on you right now.
Meant-Thank you 🙂 Im glad you are trying to sort things with your SO but at the same time behaving diferently by showing your real fellings instead of just being a peace maker.It seems you are empowering yourself,very nice.
@lisa
I remember when it first occurred to me that my marriage might not last – or rather when I was able to say it out loud, to someone else (a very good friend), because that gave it a whole new feeling of reality. At the time my friend, K, was taken aback; he had only known us as a couple a.k.a. the “perfect coupleâ€, and even though he and my husband only got along for my sake (he is gay and I was, am married to a homophobe, politically correct as he may be).
By then I had been getting unhappy for about a year, maybe longer. Of course no one ever knew because I kept my dirty laundry in a closet. So when I told K my marriage wasn’t making it, he tried to help fix it. As he started giving me advice and suggestions, and I started replying to all of them, “check, did thatâ€, I realized that I had done everything BUT stand in the doorway and shout that I was unhappy.
I know I’ve said this before: I hate conflict. I had witnessed all of my parents’ destructive relationships and once the initial awkward stage of my own marriage had passed I started using what I knew of theirs as a sort of how-not-to-screw-up-your-marriage manual. When my SO did something to upset me I always tried to wait until my head cleared and ask to talk about it later. I’d tell him why what he did had hurt me, taking care to always clarify that it was the “it†and not him that I referred to as hurtful. I never said, “you alwaysâ€, “you neverâ€, etc. When my SO would marginalize my getting upset by saying that I was being overly sensitive (and sometimes I was) or that he “didn’t mean it that wayâ€, I would tell him afterwards that I understood that he hadn’t meant to hurt me, but the thing he did or said had, and I was letting him know so that in the future we would address the issue in a more constructive way.
Those books and articles on how to “fight fairlyâ€, “communicate openlyâ€, “be good to each other†– I could have written them. I can tell you now, though – it takes two. My SO was never wrong and didn’t believe in acknowledging that something he did may have hurt me. He saw that as apologizing for nothing (even though as apology was never what I asked for). Ironically enough, he has always said – and still does – is that one of my best traits is “not naggingâ€.
At some point, more than once, I told him that I needed his help in the effort to keep the spark alive. We had gradually begun living lives that were parallel but independent of each other: we’re both workaholics and I have such a strong need for my own personal space to do the things I love that his lack of interest in what mattered to me had simply translated into my doing all of them without him. Granted, he always asked me to join him in doing what he enjoyed, but pretty soon it seemed like watching ESPN was all that ever entailed. He didn’t have friends of his own and his professional colleagues weren’t all that exciting to either of us. He was always polite to but slightly disdainful of people that mattered to me and when I asked him to be a better sport around them he pretty much told me that I needed better friends (read: people that played golf in overpriced polo shirts and had impressive portfolios).
This went on for 3 years. When I left 8 months ago it seemed to come as such a shock to him. I got to hear all the why-didn’t-you’s then. I patiently explained that I had told him about all the things that had made me sad and tried to work with him on sustaining the marriage. He honestly didn’t remember, and actually told me that he had never really paid attention or taken me seriously when I had – well – asked him to pay attention and take me seriously.
When you said, “Maybe it is time to shout to your man HEY, I NEED A CHANGE FROM YOU, FROM US, OR I CAN’T STAY HERE!†I can honestly say that I had. Not to mention that, just like you, I had withered away and replaced dinner with a glass of wine. These aren’t dumb men we are/were married to. If you drive past 20 signs telling you that asphalt ends and dirt begins and you hit that dirt road at 70mph anyway – well, the signs can’t do much for you now that the wheels are off your car.
Sometimes I too think that maybe I should have got angry and shown it. But one shouldn’t have to in a loving relationship. It had been too important to him to have that power of always proving to me that he was right. Our marriage didn’t go out with a bang, it fizzled out. He had been the guy at the top, marching his armies through the streets to show off the power he had over the folks watching the parades from their windows. The people wrote petitions and put up signs to ask for their tax money to be spent on something else. He kept marching through the streets though. Finally the folks tired of the noise so they packed their bags and moved to Brazil. When the parade on the street finally stopped, there was no one left in the windows to see it.
I see both sides to Lisa’s post. It is one thing to complain, everyday, about something that is bothering you. But having to complain everyday signals to me that the other person is not listening…was not listening on day one, nor day two or any other day for that matter. Complaining gets nowhere if intelligent communication and then the very very hard work of change and compromise follows the complaint. And complaining when it is not followed by action just degrades into obnoxious annoying behavioral habits that the other person learns to ignore.
On the other hand, withdrawl and saying nothing is a guaranteed path to darkness and despair for both the one suffering and the relationship.
I am fond of a book whose premise is that trouble in relationships offers the largest opportunity for growth, for both people, but only if both people love each other enough and are confident and committed enough to take that difficult journey of working to change and compromise.
Taking a hard look at whether the other person has the capabilities needed, of strong love, confidence, a good intellect, a strong work ethic and an ability to be fair, to be a true partner…seems to be the key.
I just got a email from my ex mother.She thanked me for my email and said was very nice from me to say those thinngs.She said that she still thinks about me sometimes and hope that everything is fine on my life.And she even said ” You deserve someone that treats you better than my son did” (what means a lot to me,because if even his own mother thinks that I guess it means I was right in all I said about him and not just being too demanding like he used to say).It was a sweet email and I got touched by all that she said.Btw she thinks me and him are broke up for almost 2 years and not just the 8 months that we are now.Like I said before me and my ex broke up twice,the first time on 2007 and the second time last year.We stayed 6 months broke up after the first break up and got back together for 9 months last year but he never mentioned that to his mother.He said he didnt know how things would turn out between us so he wanted to wait a while to tell his family about it but we end up breaking up again.So she never got to know that we were still together last year.And I havent talked to her or seen her since the first break up too,so we were almost 2 years without talking to each other.So I can imagine how it might have surprised her(she even comented that on the email) to hear from me after all that time,but anyway her reaction was pretty good.Im glad about that.
Jetred, part of the process of grief and loss is depression, isolation, sadness. Do whatever you can to get going, I started an exercise video, not my style at all, but endorphins are known to be generated through exercise. If you can’t pull out of it, get some help.
Also, when I was in the worst of it a few months back, when I was not sleeping, I went o my acupuncturist, whom I prefer to my MD. He very specifically told me to meditate and I have a very hard time doing that. So, I asked him to make me a guided tape, and he did.
Basically in the beginning of the tape, he had me relax my body but then coached me get in touch with the love that is in my heart. He believes there is a healing light/ love / force that needs to be tapped into to heal.The first few times I tried to do this I cried and I really do not even know why, it was so hard.
Think my point is, especially if your physical body is suffering.. you have to attack the problem from a few different directions…physical, emotional, behavioral, spiritual. I am also certain that doing something for others in need can help also.
@lisa – Thanks for wishing me luck, and for sharing even more of your story. You almost made *me* cry with your post. When things first started to go downhill with my husband (a few years ago now), I spent a lot of time trying to express my feelings to him in a non-threatening and tactful way. Oftentimes, he would then become withdrawn himself, as if my expressing any negative feelings was an attack on him. Then his depressed moods would start to affect how he related to our daughters, so I eventually gave up on telling him how I felt, and then I took on this role of stoic peace-keeper. We started sleeping in different bedrooms. Two years ago, I asked our real estate agent how much we could get for the house, as I was thinking of moving out. I told my girls I was thinking of leaving their dad as I was not happy in the relationship and how he treated them. They told me how much they wanted us to stay together as a family, and so I agreed to our living together in the same house, in separate spaces. My SO knows I am mostly staying here for the children, but his behaviour towards me has generally improved since I told him I was thinking of moving out. I just try to go about my life, doing things I like to do, and trying to give the girls as good a life as possible. Last night, although I am usually afraid to cause any conflict, it actually felt good to be the “grumpy one†for a change. I have to put up with moodiness from my SO *and* my teenage daughters, so it’s time they see that I can get down, too!!! Lisa, I think I *will* start to tell my SO how sad I feel on a more regular basis. Then maybe it will sink into his head!!! I don’t want to be in your position and wither away before his eyes. That must have been horrible for you. You said “Even if you don’t know what to do or where to go yet, just reading that you’re not alone really helps†– yes, you are right, and thank you so much for your continuing thoughtful comments – they are extremely helpful.
@Aega – will the similarities in our situations never end? Everyone thinks we are the “perfect couple†too, and they think we are in separate bedrooms because my husband snores. I have tried all the “I†statements, etc, etc, that are suggested in conflict resolution, too, but to no avail.
You wrote “his lack of interest in what mattered to me had simply translated into my doing all of them without him. Granted, he always asked me to join him in doing what he enjoyed, but pretty soon it seemed like watching …(movies – minor change!)… was all that ever entailed. He didn’t have friends of his own and his professional colleagues weren’t all that exciting to either of us. He was always polite to but slightly disdainful of people that mattered to me and when I asked him to be a better sport around them he pretty much told me that I needed better friends†– same here, same here, same here!!!!!
“Sometimes I too think that maybe I should have got angry and shown it. But one shouldn’t have to in a loving relationship.†– I am starting to question this. Why hide anger? I want to get mine out, and deal with it as constructively as possible. I have had to put up with his seething repressed anger for 2 decades now.
@aphrogirl – I don’t plan to complain every day about how I feel, but often enough that he “gets itâ€. You wrote “And complaining when it is not followed by action just degrades into obnoxious annoying behavioral habits that the other person learns to ignore.†– and this may be where we are stuck. Yes, we need to make some compromises, and I hope to do that in the context of marital counselling after I have been to my individual counsellor for a while. What is the name of the book you mentioned?
@Anusha – that’s nice your ex’s mother sent a friendly reply to your email. I think her comment that you deserve someone who treats you better than her son did should be taken to heart!!!
@Aphrogirl
I just realized something: you were *beyond* right. Here I am, talking about a marriage having to dissolve because the guy only gets so many chances to take us up on our offer to work things out. Hummm… maybe I should use the same metric with my MM…?
You said, “He can waffle all he wants now, as can you, say things in hindsight, wish things were different… but when the time came for him to address that very serious question you posed, he gave you his answer.
I would bet that if you posed it to him again, give him another chance to make a choice, he would still waffle. Hell, he is capable of making the choice on his own right now, last night, last month.â€
You are right – how many chances does a man get to “not miss his chance� In a way it is an arbitrary line we draw at some point, but the alternative is to go through the vicious cycle forever. And the months – years – do go by. I suppose not being able to really vilify the other person doesn’t mean that you let him keep you hanging indefinitely.
You will be proud of me 🙂 , because despite my long rambling post on humanizing those that hurt us etc I had actually taken a stand in our meeting. I didn’t really think of it as such at the time, but replayed it again in my head after reading what you wrote: “He may be miserable and wish it was different too. But, the facts remain.†The thing that happened the other day that made me feel so hollow all over again was that he had started talking about ending his marriage. Again. He said that moving away to where I was meant not seeing his kids and he didn’t know how to do that.
I didn’t tell him not to get a divorce (like I used to), but I also acknowledged to myself that as he was saying this he was still married. I basically said that as much as my dreams included having him in my life, too, the fact was that we both had commitments to other people. I told him that I didn’t know where either one would be say 5 years from now, but for now he is married and I need to be away from here to learn to stand on my own two feet. Both of us having doubts and fears was a recipe for disaster. I was unhappy and as such leaving a door open for him (who also had reached but couldn’t get past a crossroads) would muddy things even more, for both. Hence the NC (I know – again…)
When you said all this is denial I think it is, too. The love is still there and I can’t seem to talk my way out it inside my head. I don’t think the guy is a bastard, hard as I’ve tried. But I am holding firmly to getting out of his life as he is living it now. He may show up on my doorstep one day. I didn’t tell him that he couldn’t, but I made it very clear that I will not be the one helping him through a divorce if he chooses to get one. And I didn’t promise I’d be there if he did go through with it because firstly, I don’t want him to leave his wife for me (if the relationship is bad he will leave her regardless, and if he stays than that means he loved her enough for that in the first place) and secondly, I need to shape my own future based on who I am, and not who I am with him.
I don’t know if any of this makes sense.
…. I am trying to get to work outside : -))) but this is just as important work in a way. For anyone thinking of working on a relationship, who likes books, Journey of the Heart, by John Welwood is a really perceptive conceptual book. The other book, as a more specific working manual, that helps people to understand and break the patterns behind the difficulties, was reccommended to a friend by a very good therapist, its called Hold Me Tight. I have not used it but I read it as I am interested in difficulties presented in relationship.
Most important point. Both books, if used to actually work on a relationship, assume both people are totally committed to the hard work of change. A positive outlook sure would help too Journey is a great book even to read alone, though, a bit zen like, meaning spacey at times, so you got to work to grasp the concepts. But I found such good insights in that book. The other book is most relevant as part of a couples work together.
Have a good day or evening all, I do think of many of the insights gained here, as I go about my daily physical work. Thanks again.
@Meant
I have to lol, I can’t help it…. my husband snores too!! Epically so. I mean, it is l e g e n d a r y. This has been one of our bones of contention, in fact, because since no one, and I mean no one, can fall asleep in the same room with him and yet he always has excuses for not following all that his doctor prescribed for him. He has severe sleep apnea. He has and has to wear a special mask at night to help him breathe. The oxygen apparatus itself makes noise so it’s not like it’s a picnic from where I sit anyway, but somehow it’s always miscalibrated, or too loose, or too tight, and he never has time to take care of it.
Anyway, that’s what got me to the sofa in my studio in the first place, and all of our friends and family know that. The reason I *stayed* there can’t be fixed with an oxygen mask…
I think it’s good you’re “grumpyâ€, especially if it feels right. I wonder whether your daughters might have insisted on keeping the four of you together because they never saw their dad’s behavior get to you. I’m definitely not advocating repressing anger; I always acknowledged it when it came my way (that is, until anger had finally turned to apathy), I just don’t get angry in a volatile way, I suppose. When I’m mad I’m literally speechless, that’s why I talk about it later. If it feels right to you to get things out when they are boiling over, I think you should.
I have to ask…. does he check if the door is locked at least twice, no matter what, and wash his hands constantly…? 🙂
I have a question,on the end of her email my ex mother wished me all the best and that she hopes that I have a good future.Do you think that me not emailing back to thank her is rude? I mean I just wanted to let her know that I apreciate all she did but I didnt plan to keep the contact going at least for now,so I dont fell much like emailing again.I said what I had to said,she replied and I was thinking about just leaving like that but I just dont want to seem rude.You think it will seem that way if I dont email her to thank?
@aphrogirl – thanks for the names of the books – I may just check them out. I think you were the one who recommended “Women Who love Too Much, and it was helpful, indeed. Enjoy your evening, too.
@Aega – OK, I now have goosebumps all over my body. “He has severe sleep apnea. He has to wear a special mask at night to help him breathe. The oxygen apparatus itself makes noise so it’s not like it’s a picnic from where I sit anyway†–Oh my goodness, my SO has severe sleep apnea too!!!! His CPAP machine is supposed to be quiet, but I am a very light sleeper, and even the “white noise†it makes (which I try to imagine is the waves of the ocean) keeps me awake for hours. It’s hard to find him attractive when he looks more like a patient in the hospital with breathing difficulties than the young, healthy man he was when we met. I know that sounds cruel and shallow, but I can’t help it affecting me the way it does. He needs to exercise and to lose a lot of weight to become fit again, and better able to breathe. I am very physically fit, and it frustrates me that he does not take care of himself, although he has been trying to get a little more physically active recently. I hope he does manage to stay on the path to health.
“The reason I *stayed* there can’t be fixed with an oxygen mask…†– I hear you sister!! We did try marital therapy a few years ago, but the therapist wasn’t very effective, and just focused on the differences in our libidos (mine is higher – he told me to dress more provocatively to get my husband’s interest. Puh-lease!). If we decide to go back to therapy, we will find someone who will hopefully be more effective. Have you ever gone the marital therapy route? I don’t remember you mentioning it.
I don’t get angry in a volatile way, either, and I’m also wary of raised voices (my dad is a heavy drinker, and his loud anger would terrify me). But I think I need to start expressing it more, even though it may bring the “punishment†of my husband not speaking to me or our daughters for days at a time. I think my daughters know my husband’s moodiness and negativity affect me, but maybe not the extent that is does.
And yes, my husband double checks locks at night, but doesn’t do the constant handwashing (that’s my obsession, lol). He doesn’t ever like to see anything out of place, though – not a toy or piece of mail in sight, no place mats on the table unless he’s just about to eat, not one dish visible on the counter, the towels perfectly arranged in the bathroom (a la movie “Sleeping with the Enemyâ€).
@Anusha – I think it’s fine not to email her back. She wished you a good future – doesn’t need a thank you 🙂
Hello Jetred, Meanttobehappy, Butterfly, Anusha, Aega, Aphrogirl,
I am aware that you all comment regularly on here and constantly talk to one another about all the things you all are going through, and that is fine, hat is how it is meant to be.
However, i would appreciate if I and others could be let into your circle as i feel there is a danger that the contributions of others [mine included] are being overlooked and ignored. I had the courage to share my experience with an assclown and i have received absolutely nothing by way of comments, support or encouragement, and it is feeling like an exclusive club where the same commentators dominate and nobody else gets a look in/or feel too left out to comment.
I don’t mean to offend anybody, but i would like to have the same sense of belonging on this blog/website as the rest of you. I have a lot of insights to share too.
Thanks
Sweetie187 -x-
@Butterfly
I know I need the medicine and sometimes I feel like the kid in a commercial that is running like mad through the house while his mother is chasing him with cough syrup. If I couldn’t handle tough love I wouldn’t keep coming back here. I firmly believe in the therapeutic benefits of a smack upside the head for someone that’s hyperventilating instead of breathing.
I went back reread what I had written, though, because I am not saying to anyone that wishy-washy, let’s-test-them-and-see-if-they-stick-around kind of behavior is OK. I’m saying that it happens, and the people that are guilty of it aren’t necessarily inherently bad. They may just be idiots.
This is not to say it’s anyone’s responsibility to fix their partner’s insecurities, nor that they will be succesful doing so if they try. For me, I have to admit to myself that my insecurities have caused me (and others) as much misery as others may have brought to me. I know this to be the case and if I don’t acknowledge it – and work to improve it – it will always come back to bite me in the ass.
I’d give my right arm to be as grounded and self-possessed as so many women here are, and to bring wise advice to others instead of just my two cents’ worth.
Well, that was my two cents… 🙂 . I liked when you said that, “My life, your lives, lies ahead of me and you”. Accordingly, I am going to get my patootie up and away from the laptop and see if a little fresh air does its usual trick for me.
@Sweetie 187 – I did actually respond to what I think may have been your first post on here – under a previous post of NML’s. If you remember which one you first put it on, have a look, and my response to you is there. I didn’t comment on this one, as it seemed to be exactly the same post that I had already responded to.
This is not an exclusive club, all are welcome to post and receive support, and I personally try to respond to any new person who does not yet have a response from someone else, as I hate people to feel left out.
So, tell me, which post of NML’s did you first post on?
@Sweetie
I’m sorry – I just am not in a place to respond to you today, not in a tactful way which you will find supportive. I tend to say exactly what I think … your posts were very aggressive, both actively and passively, and much as we will all be willing to help you also have to take the time to think about what you say and how it might affect others who are feeling fragile. My actual advice is that first and foremost you should consider seeking some professional guidance for the distress you are in which is not immediately and directly caused by the situation.
By stating your case in a passive-aggressive way – and by accusing (I’m sorry but this IS the right word here) people of forming a clique which excludes you, you are excluding yourself and placing others into a position of being “abusers”. This isn’t the case in reality and you need to take stock of yourself before anything that is said here, by NML or anyone else will do anything but fuel the fires. In other words you need to be ready to “do the work” as opposed to wishing harm on others which is what came out from your earlier posts.
I hope this doesn’t cast me as a bitch: nothing could be further from the truth.
@Aega I’d give my right arm to be as grounded and self possessed as you perceive people here to be lol – I’m just a bumbling idiot and I feel in the dark.
@Meant – your situation sounds like mine with kids – “stoic” is a word I identify with.
I can’t believe how hung over I still am !!!!
Butterfly i am sorry you feel my request to open up the circle of support [and make it less exclusive] was deeemed “aggressive” but i have looked back over my post and there is nothing aggresive about it.
But i am sorry to have upset the clique. I should have kept my mouth shut because now i am looking like a villain. I have even been falsely accused of “wishing harm on others”! But i cannot see the evidence that backs up your accusation so that is very unfair.
I will bow out now and not make any further comment on this site.
From now on i will be a silent reader, least i upset anyone further.
Sorry.
But the evidence is clear to see. If you look back over this blog, you will see that there are six main “in-group” people who totally dominate. I’m sorry if my accurate obeservations has upset you.
If i was feeling like an outsider 4 hours ago, i am feeling even more of an outsider after Butterfly’s response!
I did not accuse or perceive anybody on here of being an “abuser”, Butterfly. Wow. I am gob-smacked.
And i will leave well alone now.
Sweetie187-Sorry if you felt left out,I didnt mean to make you fell this way.I guess you know what to do already,that is go NC and cut that guy out from your life.He cant give you the relationship you want and was using you for a FWB situation.I know it hurts that he said that he didnt want a relationship and then shows up with a gf but it realy doesnt matter his reasons for that,what matters now is you.I think you should stop texting him to try to get a reaction from him and just go NC.You wont achieve anything by that and only will make you look bad and waist your life.You should be concetrating that energy you using to piss him of on yourself and on moving on.I know isnt easy but you have to try and just forget about him for now.Just continue NC and you will see how much better you will fell to be out of all that.
meant-Thank you for your response 🙂 I guess I wont email her anymore then and just leave things like that.
Ok I know I just said I wouldnt email my ex mother but I just did it(yeah I know I change my mind too fast lol).I wanted to explain why I havent been around and let clear that it had nothing to do with her,that I just needed some distance to get over my ex and move on.And most important I wanted to let her know how much I apreciated all that she said,specialy the part where she said that I deserve someone that treats me better than her son did(that realy touched me).I always admired how she never took his side or made excuses for his behaviour just because he is her son,and just said when she thinks that he wasnt right.She even told me once that she loves him very much but that she knows he can be very selfish and hurtfull.I think is very nice how she can talk about her own son behaviour like that.
@sweetie
It didn’t upset me, quite the opposite. What you need to look at is why you were motivated to post as you did, and how you are reacting. We are NOT the “main six” – this is a huge huge huge site, please read the other posts and replies. All the answers you can ever want are right here, but you have tobe prepared to look for them and not expect people here to validate you.
We’re not here to enable you to carry on self destructing. THAT would be cruel.
@Anusha It’s nice that you’ve made that connection but my advice would be to take your own advice and leave it alone. You’ve settled something you feel bad about, and you know she understands he treated you like crap (she’s probably upset about it too) but if you keep getting involved in this it’s another form of remaining invested with him isn’t it?
@Butterfly – I agree with your posts to Sweetie187 and Anusha.
You’re right, this site is huge, and many people have been responded to and supported, even when they are “new” – and when I look over this very post and the comments, I see that anyone who has actually asked a question has had someone try to answer it (Carrie, bbylove, SlowlySurely), and I see no evidence of anyone being left out. Sometimes people just comment, and that’s fine, too, and I think maybe Sweetie’s post was interpreted as her just “wanting to comment”. Perhaps if she had asked a specific question, or, like you suggested, if the tone of her post had been different, she may have received the responses she seems to need.
This comment below was posted by Anusha on another post and directed at Butterfly. The comment has been removed from the post it was placed on because it is off topic.
Butterfly-I see your point,yes geting involved in this is a form to stay invested on him.And I also think that Im not ready to keep constant contact with her right now.I need to be fully over him to be sure that I will be able to handle that without being sucked back on.So from now on I plan to leave it like that.I just thought was important to let her know how much I apreciated what she said and let clear why I havent been around but from now on no more emails.
That is a answer to Butterfly post on the other page but since there is closed for coments now I had to post it here.
This was posted by Tulipa:
Anyway I just wanted to share that I did not do as he expected me to do and and contact him on his b’day. I worked out his mo was to give me crumbs with which I would bake the whole loaf and call to his attention that what he is doing wrong however there was no real consequences from me for his behaviour so he continued on.
He through me enough crumbs to make me think this time he would follow his words with actions but that turned out to be totally not true.
So his b’day was Sunday and I did not do as he expected I did not contact him in anyway at all about it.. I felt guilty but kept recalling his lies and why would I want to say Happy B’day to a liar??
I don’t think he has noticed that I said nothing either that or he thinks I’m playing games now to gain the power but really I’m trying to see the big picture and move on with my life and get out of the fallback girl position.. That was a great article NML thank you and apologies it is posted in the wrong spot.
Baggage Reclaim now has its own social network where you can create groups and set up forum topics and even chat with other members. This has been set up so that lengthier more personal discussions can take place without causing disruption to the comments.
Guys, please take heed of the commenting guidelines as this is not a forum – it’s a blog. Whilst I appreciate that some of you are trying to support each other, this is exactly why I have said on a number of occasions that I don’t want personal conversations or comments being placed that end up swinging the thread off topic. I let it roll periodically and then comments like the most recent start and emails start coming thick and fast from readers who feel that they can’t comment because the comment thread is off topic and has become like a conversation between just a few people.
The comments on this post are now closed – please don’t continue this discussion on another post and please ensure that comments are within the guidelines. If anyone has any queries, please use the email on the contact page to get in touch. Thanks Natalie
.-= NML´s last blog ..Overestimating the ‘chemistry’ and the ‘attraction’ in your relationships =-.
To NML,
Thanks very much for enforcing a much needed boundary, and for setting up a social network forum in order for some of your website fans to have back and forth, personal, off topic conversations with each other, if that’s what they wish, without the rest of us having to feel like outsiders, eavesdropping on a private discussion between two people or a select few.
The social network forum is a highly appropriate and worthwhile move that will benefit some of the fans here, and its creation will help to free up the blog comments box to be used as it was intended to: which is to stay ON TOPIC according to the blog in question, adhering to the commenting guidelines.
Sweetie187 -x-