Have you ever found yourself blindsided by the confusion of not knowing what the hell you should think about how badly you’ve been treated by a guy?
Well I can bet if you have been involved with a Mr Unavailable or assclown that you’ve felt this way.
Have you found yourself looking back of your relationship and feeling more than a bit galled and bewildered by the type of relationship and behaviour that you have accepted?
I’ll bet you have!
I was speaking with a reader earlier who has been through exactly this – you know it doesn’t feel good. You know what you like and what you don’t like. You know there is something more than a little jacked up about what you have experienced and yet…
The self doubt comes in.
It’s the rationalising, the ignoring, the denying, the ability to see gold where there is rusty copper, the confusion, the listening to the words rather than looking at the actions.
More importantly, you no longer know what is ‘normal’ anymore.
Your normal is what you used to think is screwed up.
You have become very good at normalising bad behaviour.
If you imagine your ‘relationship’ with Mr Unavailable’s and assclowns like this:
Imagine that your capacity to love is at, let’s say 70%. Depending on what flavour of guy you’re messing with out of these two, let’s say his capacity is 20%.
These guys don’t see themselves in the reality because they are distanced from their emotions and distanced from their behaviour – hence why their words rarely match their actions.
Their oversized ego’s, which compensate for the little boy within, have them rationalising their behaviour to themselves and deciding that they’re Mr Wonderful’s.
You know the “It’s not like I cheat/beat/steal/do x,y,z like ‘other’ guys” kind of rubbish… Or “I wouldn’t be this way if you weren’t so needy/thinner/gave me more BJ’s/let me sleep around…” crap…
As a result, they don’t see their 20% as 20% – they see it as 100%.
This is why they big up themselves and think their crumbs should be more than enough to sustain you.
They throw you a crumb but in their eyes, the crumb has become a loaf in the transit.
They’ve given as much as they’re capable of giving, but it’s not up to much, but in their eyes, they think it’s brilliant because they’ve normalised their own bad behaviour.
The key is that you have got to stop thinking that because someone has given all that they can give that it makes it enough, or believing that you can continue to put your bucket down in the emotional blackhole well in the hope that on one of the buckets trips, some extra emotion will come out.
When they first started doing things that you didn’t like, you will have objected, but in eventually accepting their behaviour because you wanted to believe in the best him, the illusion, the guy you think is hidden within, or the relationship that you so desperately want, your expectations got managed down to accommodate them, and you got trained.
You have adapted to the whims and idiosyncrasies each time you have been with these men, so what was abnormal has become totally normal.
This is how you end up becoming distanced from yourself and forgetting who you are, what you need, what you want etc.
This is why it is important to step back, cut contact, have some breathing space, and figure out who the hell you are, what you’re doing, what you want, and where you are going.
You need to separate yourself from your men and re-establish your identity.
You and your Mr Unavailable/assclown are not the same person.
They don’t get to make the rules – you do.
They don’t get to define the boundaries – you do.
They don’t get to decide what you like and don’t like – you do.
More importantly, you have to step back and re-evaluate this relationship thang because trust me, normalising their bad behaviour and moulding, adapting, and accommodating till the cows come home is not working for you.
You don’t get extra brownie points. They don’t love you more, respect you, trust you, or care about you more. In fact, they just use your behaviour as an excuse to continue their behaviour because they believe and know that if you loved yourself more and had boundaries in place, there’s no way in hell you’d continue to give him the time of day.
If you’ve been saying to yourself that you don’t know what’s normal anymore or that you no longer know what a normal relationship looks like, step back, re-evaluate, and start building a you with boundaries and healthier attitudes towards yourself and love.
If you put your feet in reality and think about how these men have behaved, you will recognise that at times they’ve been nothing short of outrageous! You can only truly see this if you don’t have the shadow of their crap looming over you which is why cutting contact, ending the relationship, whatever it is you need to do, in time, will give you objectivity, which in turn will give you the freedom to take care of you.
Your thoughts?
Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download. If you need personal advice or analysis of your relationship/situation, check out my consultation service.
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Serena
Sorry you had such a prick but at least you didn’t totally cave into his madness.
Asking how he should introduce you? WTF? If anyone had said that to me I’d have said how ’bout hood ornament or the chick who shags you ’cause you’re too ugly for anyone else – trust me these guys need to be harshed out and sent packing pronto.
Get really selfish to protect yourself – splurge on some new lipstick, lingerie or perfume – have a date with you!
In the future to avoid this BS with males I intend to be fully upfront with men asking straight out: Have you got a girlfriend or any loose ends? Is this a friendship club thing, fuck buddy or friends with benefits thing? Or are you a real man who is a straight up heterosexual interested in me for a real relationship who doesn’t blow hot and cold?
I know it sounds a bit full on but I just can’t be bothered with all the crap anymore of what is supposed to pass for male interest and listening to my girlfriends and the misery they experience with the men in their lives just hardens my resolve.
Hi ladies, many thanks for reading this message.
I am a writer for Marie Claire magazine and I’m working on a feature on women whose partners left a wife/girlfriend to be with them.
It doesn’t matter if you’re still with the man in question – a variety of experiences is expected (and welcomed!)
The piece will be very positive and non-judgmental, and will comprise a short telephone interview. You will get the opportunity to take part in a photo shoot with of the magazine’s top photographers.
If you, or anyone you know, has been in this situation, I’d love to hear from you. Please email me at caroline.hedley@gmail.com. Thanks in advance!
Serena, your post reminded me of bizarre conversations with my ex. He was talking about moving and how he would bring me with him or buy me a car so I could come visit. Then he turned on me one day and said that I could not control him if he wanted to move aweay. Then he would joke about my cooking and how he should marry me and then would remind me it was just a joke and not to get ahead of myself. He would talk about the future and when he said things were not going well I would suggest we not see each other anymore and he would say we should work at it, only to suddenly dump me. When I got upset he said it was ridiculous because we had never been together that long or seriously. I I met everyone in his life, he never met anyone on mine. The messages were constantly mixed.
@Butterfly — On your question about the increasingly degrading sexual stuff — it’s part of the pattern for some of these guys. They are very good at “grooming” their victims for further abuse and humiliation. They introduce things (porn, explicit sex talk, other women, and so forth) gradually. The shock wears off, we normalize it in our minds, and then they take the next step.
@Snook, thanks for your response!! Your response to “How should I introduce you?†made me laugh!! Actually after giving him a ration of sh** about insulting me with this insane question, I figured the bizarre question needed to be met with a bizarre response. I said, “Why don’t you introduce me as your cousin?†He was stunned!! and responded, “Oh no, no, I couldn’t do that!†I think he saw the insanity of his juvenile question if only for a moment. Anyway, as I reflect on this relationship I realize that he was constantly defining and verbalizing how I felt about him without even asking me!! Talk about bass ackwards!! After the first month he said, “You call me more than I call you, you know.†This wasn’t AT ALL the case and I knew it. It went on to “You miss me more than I miss you†and “you invested more than I invested†onto the final end of it because as he put it, “you will develop more feelings for me and mine will stay the same!†WTF is right!! How did he presume to be able to define my feelings or my investment in him without asking me??!! Ours wasn’t a F-buddy thing. He even slept with me without sex on occasion to as he said, “prove that he wasn’t just with me for the sex.†He knew I’d have none of that from the start and he knew I’d never continue in that context at the end as well as not continuing as friends. Although I didn’t totally cave over his madness, I do hurt and miss the relationship (I notice I wrote miss the relationship, not the man) although I’m really not sure why. Maybe at some level subconsciously it was an intellectual challenge to outsmart him and beat him at his own game in which case, I’ve got an issue too!! I don’t know, I’m still figuring it out and I still hurt deeply!! There’s other bizarre twists and turns in this and it’s so therapeutic to post it to the board here and get responses. Thank you. Your response is empowering to me!!
@Butterfly and Snook: What’s the deal with the “straight up heterosexual†question? Do these guys tend to have alternative sexual desires too?? Butterfly, you alluded to this in your most recent post. I’m interested due to experiencing a couple of red flags in that area although nothing really concrete.
@Dazed and Confused, the constant barrage of mixed signals are enough to daze and confuse anyone, especially when they’re rapid fire and coming at short intervals!! I really think in the case of my EUM it was more coming from his twisted thinking than orchestrated, although I think some was orchestrated. Here’s one for the books, he spends his last week with me 24/7 before his move. We’re walking around town on his last day and he looks at a company and says, “we should look that up on the internet when we get home (my note: ‘when we get home’ not ‘when we get to your house’ hmmm, interesting) because I could probably get a job there.†The next morning he leaves after spending this intimate, connected, contented and passionate week with me and says, “I’ll call you when I’m on my way back.†I thought he was kidding and responded, “No, you’ll call me when you get there,†which he did. BUT. . . his intent all along was to discontinue the relationship upon moving even though its within driving distance to continue. I guess such is the case with an EUM!! Apparently they’re used to just flipping a switch and denying or squashing their emotions or who knows. It did continue after he left but with more bizarre pushey, pulley behavior and mixed signals. I know he’s had difficulty separating emotionally from the relationship. I think it’s because he let his emotions go in this knowing that his get out of jai free card was the move. He even said that he thinks the reason it developed to the level emotionally that it did was because we knew he might be moving!! Figure that one out if you can. I can’t??!!
@ Kissie – “you have to met MY standards and meet MY criteria, b/c I AM the catch, not you…ME!” That is so cool, can i still that line?
I was in an online relationship with a guy for 6 months. We talked on the phone for 4 or 5 hours each night (3 times a week). Sometimes we talk on night and left our cells on ’til morning. He was so sweet and says “I love you” all the time. But the last 4 weeks I noticed he wouldn’t take my calls on Sundays nights… even at midnight he wouldn’t pick up. So Sundays must be his “other chic day” and the other 6 days my day. Aint gonna cut it buddy! So 3 days ago I called and dumped him via voice mail. He hasn’t even bothered to call me since & I sure as hell ain’t call him again. He’s not the only badass in this relationship! End, Ovaaa, C ya!!! Don’t let the door slam ya! lol
Snook,
In your message to Leonine, you list a few of your “deal breakers”. I think those are what I call boundaries, and they are immensely powerful. They also dramatically increase safety.
But I am a bit surprised that you would work so hard to “tone down” a bozo’s sexual stuff, if he didn’t measure up to be an intimate partner candidate. I mean, if you have a dodgy bozo buzzing around, how is a good man going to know you aren’t dodgy, too? If you keep practicing putting up with inappropriate shenanigans, doesn’t that make acting straight arrow and demanding straight arrow from your partner, well, tougher?
Any dude hanging around, that brings up sexual topics regularly – isn’t there for the friendship. As long as this bozo hangs around, he acts like “good guy” repellent. And he keeps your tolerance of unsuitable behavior at a “high” level.
Where I keep getting stuck – As much as I understand that my ex was terribly EU – there were two major contradictions to him that made it hard for me to grasp while in the relationship and no easier now that I’m out and being haunted by the past 6 years. So on the one hand, my ex has a gentle demeanour, he’s playful, light hearted, and physically affectionate. On the other hand, once there is an issue that requires him to give of himself emotionally – he checks out. In a conversation he goes silent, he avoids discussing things, he will spend his time doing other things like spending hours at the gym, he will brush off my opinions, tell me I too sensitive or plain tell me that he can’t deal with it. He makes meager attempts, very meager and says “i don’t what to do”. Towards the end of the relationship he became cold, viscious, bold face lying, and deceitful.
That was a side of him, I never saw before, and that was in response to taking a step back from the relationship – i spent the whole time putting his needs first, I had to fight against ex girlfriends (he has no boundaries) who were trying to ruin things (whom he defended), his mother who is a manipulating wench, his crazy family who wanted to use him and him to their own ends, his female friends who were jealous of our relationship and many many other goodies. The one and only time I said, enough I have lost myself in this relationship, and my needs are not being met – he basically said eff you.
Within a month of taking some time to think through my issues he was off and running with some other chick and lying to my face about it. He wanted me to come to his cousin’s wedding and pose in family photos while he had begun a relationship with someone else. And said I was selfish when i declined!
I can’t seem to reconcile his inability to try and change what I had pointed out for years – i guess i can’t accept that I gave my all, to the point i almost had a nervous breakdown (doctors prescribing medication and all) while he never really really tried to emotionally connect with me. I can’t accept it – I keep feeling like I failed – how could I love him with everything I had – only to have him hook up with some other chic?
Cece I understand how you feel, your ex sounds very much like mine and I too have spent 6 years on him.
I think that you have answered your own question though, you said ‘putting his needs first’ and that when you told him that your needs were not being met, he changed.
That’s it in a nutshell, as long as you are there to serve them, they will be sweetness and light, as soon as you make any emotional demand on them, they can change quite dramatically.
It was the same for me, all was light hearted and fun (and on his terms of course) until I needed support from him. My parents were sick, they live in the same country as him (it was a LDR) I came to visit them but stayed with him. He ‘jokingly’ told a friend, ‘I’m fed up, she’s here for them not me’ Well ha ha, it wasn’t really a joke, his behaviour changed and he became cold, vicious, and mean, and shortly after we split up. He was in the arms of his next woman within minutes. I couldn’t understand what had gone wrong, after all I loved him so much.
It’s the pattern, serve them above all others and you’re OK, suggest things that they want to do too, and you’re OK, make ‘demands’ and they are off. There is always another woman around for them to seduce, and the pattern will play out again.
I understand the feeling of failure, I’ve spent years trying to prove that I’m better than my replacement and just recently have started to realise that I’m certainly better off than her. Now I see the pattern emerging again, she’s making demands on him, he’s backing off and has her replacement lined up. You didn’t succeed in breaking the pattern, the next one is unlikely to either, only he can change it, and he is unlikely to, it works for him.
Our failure was to protect ourselves enough, don’t know about you but though I can see this, I’m still struggling to disconnect emotionally. Others on this site have succeeded with time so I hope you get there too.
@cece you sure you’re not me?
Sounds very familiar apart from a couple of fine details. Please read NML’s book … seriously … your answers are in there and they have the ring of truth, a good truth with no punches held, and possibly an uncomfortable truth because what you have to deal with is YOU, not this idiot who loves all the drama around him and can’t function without a veritable shitstorm.
As with posts above, my take is to stop trying to reconcile it – you never will, end of, because you are not one of these damaged little men. Don’t feel bad that he was with the other girl …
When I had all this in the properly terminal phase I also got “I hoped you’d never find out about it”. I found out a bit about her and oh man is she an emotional wreckage – very needy, very clingy … he always used to say “thanks for being sane” and said that normally he attracts very unstable types. Think of it this way – YOU win. You just can’t see it yet.
Read the book honey
~hugs~
@Snook etc: Well I am adventurous in my own right but it was the gradual introduction thing for sure, more than I was happy to have, and looking back even the way that they were introduced were … weird. One time he was whining “I don’t know what I want” and I tried to end things, felt so bad, contacted him back and was a little taken aback that he seemed to have just calmly gone to sleep after much crying and being sad – hindsight tells me now, with THIS information, that he was just pushing to see.
The only mistake was believing “I love you”, “I need you” etc etc – these are normal human failings and none of us should beat ourselves up over these men who have no idea at all what it means.
Getting that point (thank you Karen!!!!!) is a very key step.
@cece (and sadthing)
“on the one hand, my ex has a gentle demeanour, he’s playful, light hearted, and physically affectionate. On the other hand, once there is an issue that requires him to give of himself emotionally – he checks out. In a conversation he goes silent, he avoids discussing things†This could have been written to describe my exEUM. Mine would also make meagre attempts, but his line was “I don’t know what you’re looking forâ€, or “I’m sweating here, can you cut me some slack?†It’s like they always try to turn it back to *them* even when we are talking about *our* feelings and opinions. As if any negative feeling or dis-satisfaction we have about the relationship is a direct attack on them. I would actually have to say to mine “I am trying to tell you about my feeling_______ here, and you are just talking about being uncomfortable yourself– could you please respond to what I’m trying to convey?†Sometimes that would work, sometimes it didn’t, but it was like I had to teach him how to respond to how someone else was feeling! And my exEUM is in his late 40’s – I have no idea how he got through life without even a basic understanding of responding to others’ feelings. Like you, I tried to figure out what I was doing wrong. But as many others have said, it’s not us that’s the problem, it’s them, they are unable to feel like we do. I am reading “Women who Love too Much†by Robin Norwood, and she suggests we like to blame ourselves for failed relationships, because then we have hope that *we* can change, and things will get better. But if *he* has some problem (like addiction or EU) then the changing has to come from him.
Cece, you said “I can’t accept it – I keep feeling like I failed†– but you said *he* didn’t change what *you* pointed out for years. I find people don’t truly change as a result of someone else just pointing something out to them. They change because they have developed insight into a problem they have that interferes with their life somehow and that motivates them to change. I don’t think many EU men have this kind of insight.
Sadthing, you said “I’m still struggling to disconnect emotionally. Others on this site have succeeded with time so I hope you get there too.†Me too. It’s one thing to realize all this information about the EUM, and another completely to get your emotions caught up!!!
@Butterfly
I’m still planning to read NML’s book once I am finished WWLTM, as you suggested. Thanks for responding to my earlier post – you are always so encouraging and helpful. “The only mistake was believing “I love youâ€, “I need you†etc etc – these are normal human failings and none of us should beat ourselves up over these men who have no idea at all what it means.†– I am still trying to understand why I believed him saying these things, when my gut told me he was after a FWB situation. BTW Butterfly, how long have you been NC? You sound like you are much further along in your understanding than me (I am day 16).
Hi Im felling a bit down today and could realy use some suport.Im felling sad and lonely today and I miss having a bf.Sometimes I think I will never find one.And more I fell like that more I miss my EUM,anyway at least now I can see the conection so I can prevent myself from going after him.I think I just wanted to let it out and hear some words of encouragement.
@Anusha,
I’m sorry to hear you are feeling down today. I know what it’s like to feel sad and lonely and missing the EUM. You have given really good advice to people on here, and it sounds like you are making great progress – that’s something to feel good about! Is there something you can do for yourself today – something that brings you joy and has nothing to do with the EUM or even men in general? There will be plenty of time for a bf later, when the right one comes along.
I send you a cyber hug (((((((((((((Anusha))))))))))))) and I will send positive thoughts your way…. I hope your day gets better. Hang in there!!!!!
Anusha, (this is kind of long, and maybe I’m writing more for me than I realize!
)
Before I found this site, I used to try “no contact” on my own and then I’d end up breaking it after a few days or a week or so (or sometimes he broke it) because I just missed having him to e-mail or tell about my day, but everytime I went back, I realized that things were the same, he was still unavailable, and my needs were never going to be met through this person no matter how many different words he used with me. His actions never backed up his words. I have been away from him mainly since December ’08, but saw him once in February, and have not seen him again since then, and there really hasn’t been a day gone by where I don’t think about him maybe a little and wish things had been different, but I sit on my hands, I go work out a little, take my dogs for a walk, make my teenaged sons a nice meal (which I don’t do all the time
…. just try to do anything to remind myself that I am better off without this guy in my life. I was sad and lonely even when I was with him (interspersed with nice moments), but mainly sad because it wasn’t a full relationship with both people having both feet in.
We deserve a full relationship, and I know from reading your posts that you want to work on Y-O-U so that you can be ready for the kind of relationship that we all long for. I want that, too! I think I still have some fear that I’m not good enough because the jerk really turned everything around on me and tried to make me feel like I was the crazy one for wanting “more.”
I hope you can remember why you need to move on, and this weekend do something spectacular to celebrate yourself! Celebrate that you’ve found this site and become very wise and are now on a better path.
I love reading about everyone’s journey here.
Today, after I finish work (I teach music privately), I’m going to go out and buy myself an outfit and wear it to church tonight where I’ll be playing with my church band. I’m just doing it because I don’t spend money on myself very often, but I noticed I’ve let myself get a little bit dumpy looking! LOL! I’m not ugly, but I’m not all girly girl pretty, either, and I’m tall and big (not super fat, just kind of big… 5 ft. 8, 175 pounds) and I never feel like I look good, so I’m going to actually put some effort into it today. There are no guys available at church, but I just feel like looking nice today just for me!
The weekends are the hardest for me because my sons go to their dad’s house on Sat. and Sun. and that is when I am alone (whereas my entire work week is very busy), so when I first did “no contact” for real, I would take a bath, groom myself, make a nice meal for myself, read everything over and over on this site so that I’d never go back to the A.C. , get a good book and try to bask in my newfound “me” time.
I hope you find some greatness to dwell on this weekend, and from what I can tell, your man wasn’t/isn’t so great.
Remember you’re an amazing woman! You can get through this!
@meanttobehappy – I dunno how long I am into NC because I don’t WANT to keep tabs on how long. To me (and this is just my own personal view) anyone who can tell you it is day 63 is keeping tabs and keeping invested by doing so. I’ve thought about him all day, and I do mean all day, but it’s like a more see-through ghost, or lemonade with the fizz going out more and more. Mainly what I have thought today is how much I’d love to tell him, with feeling, to f*** off. I realise this is just another stage in the process so I am shrugging it off.
@Anusha I feel like that too but cheer up chicken, just because you feel something does not make it true. The fact you’ve seen a connection is a great thing. Do something nice – get in touch with a friend, watch a comedy you like (not anything about romance!!!) or buy yourself a new book. Tonight I am not going out, I intend to read and just chill out doing girly things/housey things and reading voraciously!
Thank you very much for all your kind words and suport
I will try doing something to cheer me up.I never thought I could be where Im now,I couldnt go a week without contacting my EUM and now Im on week 12 of NC!!!!! For more I was unhappy and saw that he was wrong for me I just couldnt get away from him but now I finaly could do that I cant just waist it by contacting him.I tried dating to help out on my felling lonely and to help me to forget my EUM faster but didnt turn out much good.I think maybe I should take a time away from romance,it always has been my main concern since I was 14 or so but it isnt working.I mean I want to find a nice guy and have a good relationship and I have been pursing it so much but the results so far werent much good.I think is like NML says,if you look for a relationship out of desperation and loneliness the result wont be good.Is hard for me to take a time away from relationships because is something I realy want but I think maybe I need that.I think I need to sort myself first to be able to get a good relationship.
@Meant to be Happy-Thanks for the cyber hug and to remind me that my main concern now should be me and not a bf.
@lisa-Thank you for sharing your story,you are on the right track.I will concetrate on taking more care of me from now on.
@Butterfly-Thanks for your sugestions,I will give them a try.Btw congratulations for had deleted your ex from messenger,I bet you fell much better now.
@Anusha that was meant not me
I deleted monkey face before I even started NC – and then forgot that I had deleted him already and had a surprise when he wasn’t there to delete! I attribute that to adjusting to a new country more than planning though 
thank you butterfly, meant to be happy, and sadthing I hope I didn’t miss anybody. I appreciate all the feedback, it has been a hard hard week – sending me right back to 6 months ago. I like many others on this blog just have to work on accepting without trying to figure it out – there is no easy answer. I’m analytical by nature – too analytical and I have a habit of lying awake at night trying to figure things out – i think that i forced myself to accept it, but it was superficial acceptance and that is why i am back to square one.
It’s not as easy as saying he’s an a**h**le because he is and he isn’t – he cried the other day when I was having a meltdown on the phone. Although he hasn’t bothered to call me back to see how I have been doing since then. It’s not in him – it’s something he has to learn – if willing – and he has to learn it on his own to paraphrase Meant to be Happy. He has learned other things, he told me so and he told me that he attributes not letting his mom manipulate him to me.
Sad thing, you were treated horribly! I’m sorry – it is clear that regardless of the fact that you had to help your family his needs came first – period. Similar on my end, regardless of the fact that I had drained myself emotionally and physically – it was not acceptable for me to work on me. Even when I was having mental breakdowns crying for hours and hours, not eating, not sleeping, not working just lying in bed – he shed a little remorse, gave me a mini pep talk and left to see his other women and from time to time didn’t come back home till the next day. His needs came first! He can’t see that because he can’t really really see beyond his own needs when it comes to me. This is not the case with his family – only me!
@lisa: “he cried the other day when I was having a meltdown on the phone. Although he hasn’t bothered to call me back to see how I have been doing since then.”
This speaks volumes. Did you call him or did he call you?
He called me after I texted him twice – and asking why he had not bothered to respond to me. I was in pieces on the phone – he said that he felt responsible and asked me to give up on myself to fight.
That was tues or wed ….
Ah honey … NC only works if you stick with it … when you break it you break your heart all over again. ~hugs~
He ain’t worth it. Saying he feels responsible, crying … these are all the passive aggressive methods these fools use to absolve themselves, but actions really do speak louder than words. If he had the capacity to care, if he was worth it, he’d have been in touch right away. As it is, he has no idea what to do or say because he is a frightened little boy inside.
You deserve better, we all do.
Thank you butterfly, you’re right we all deserve better.
@Butterfly-Sorry for had confused meant’s post with yours.I read so many posts a day that I get confused with the names lol
I know we have all acknowledged our EUM’s bad relationship behaviour, and how they can sometimes be sweet or charming to get what they want, but at the end of the day they hurt us as they are not capable of a fully committed, both-feet-in relationship. I am reflecting on my ex-EUM/MM’s behaviour outside of our relationship though, and it is confusing me. I know some of my ex-EUM’s work colleagues and almost all of them say how hard-working he is, how he’d do anything for anyone, how many hours he spends at the office, that he’s “awesome†and “helpfulâ€. Only one person said “Trying to get something out of ____ is like extracting teeth†– everyone else says how great he is. So now I’m starting to doubt my judgement of him – maybe I have been too harsh? How can he be this well liked if he’s an AC? Maybe he’s not an AC, just an EUM? But then again, he’s a MM, so of course no good for me!!!
@Anusha – no worries for confusing my post with Butterfly – I know it’s hard to keep track sometimes – but thanks for your encouragement to delete my EUM from messenger, you were very helpful in getting me to that point (as was Butterfly).
I had an ex who would do anything for anyone (this is one I haven’t even started on), and always seemed to have another women he was definitely not sleeping with but who plumped up his ego – eventually they would meet me and like me and the moment that they did like me he was done with them.
Please remember though, if it is something he is doing for himself then his behaviour will be TOTALLY DIFFERENT and you should not be linking yourself in this way and asking and justifying – deep down you know the truth, allow yourself to accept it and to work out not about him and were you too harsh etc etc etc … he is MARRIED he is happy to cheat on a woman who made a commitment to him (irrespective of whether or not she is any good herself) and he is married he is already cheating etc etc etc etc. Free yourself of this rubbish!!!
Everyone thinks my ex-ass is “awesome” etc too apart from the women he has pissed about who had more sense than to go back, the people who chose whether or not they carried on employing him … need I say more? Who is the person who said trying to get something is like pulling teeth? Maybe here’s some food for thought?
Hi Butterfly,
The ‘pulling teeth” comment came from someone who has known him for a long time. One time when the AC left a social event we were all at because someone put on a sports event on the TV and he didn’t like it, this person also said – “typical” that he wouldn’t stay. I guess I should listen to this person’s opinions! Come to think of it, my brother – who usually says the AC is a “nice guy” – once mentioned that the AC liked to get acknowledgment/praise a lot at work. Maybe he just “goes the extra mile” for people so that he gets an ego stroke?
Butterfly, I hope you’re having a great evening in – thanks again for your responses. I’m off to read some more Robin Norwood and stop obsessing about the AC. Cheers!
@ Anusha,
What are you doing to even out the good days and bad days? (I mean, brighten up the sad days! Leave the good days the heck alone!)
You might consider a private journal, something with more depth than the tweets you would put in a diary, something that you don’t plan to show anyone in this life time. You might tag each entry, with date, amount of energy (degree of depression!), brigthness of mood, interest in being with other people, and whether you enjoined interacting with others – make a habit of noting each of these. Use a 1 to 10 or 1 to 5 scale. OK, if you *have to*, include how much you miss the relationship and how much leaving him affects your day – but be warned. Acknowledging how much you miss him, recording how painful and burdened you are, tends to bind us back to him, and disrupts healing a bit. Then start jotting down the biggest two or three thoughts at that moment.
A daily journal gives you something to look back at and notice whether the days are getting brighter or not, trends in your thinking, changes in how you view yourself, your home, and your life. The discipline of checking your feelings and making a subjective estimate gives you a bit more understanding – and control! – of your emotions and the changes in your life.
Plus, making a journal entry is a quiet time. By looking at the thoughts swirling, and acknowledging the top two or three, you may find the noise level of your thoughts start to drop, and you may find some healing quiet time. The journal you write might be one map from here to a healthy and happy place.
Luck!
@cece thanks, actually his behaviour got more and more weird after that comment, I know now that he was pushing me to finish it because he was in too deep and didn’t want the responsibility of a real relationship.
Yours situation sounds even more horrible though, what sort of man ignores you when you are so distressed – and then tells you he feels responsible – but does absolutely nothing about it!!!
It really is all about them, I sometimes think they get a little power kick out of thinking that they can affect someone else so much. Don’t think it matters if it’s a positive or negative effect, anything will do.
You said he’s not like this with his family, only you. Please don’t see this as your failing, he has learned over his whole life how to maintain whatever relationship he needs with his family, and we all tend to have an alloted role to play in our families. My AC was the last surviving child in a large family, the one after him died early, so he became the golden child to all his siblings – and carries that sense of entitlement into the outside world.
In my experience it’s only in personal relationships that their true character comes out so the sense of entitlement becomes the selfish ‘me first, me second, me third etc’ if you’re very lucky you might get onto the list from time to time, BUT only when they deign to put you on it, not when you need some support or attention.
Sorry he was so mean when you needed support, but you know that he’s that way. I told mine he has no heart, that a rock would have more feelings than him, and he agreed with ‘I’m different’ too right!
I think, ladies, we are heading back into the territory of whether someone is emotionally unavailable or is narcissistic. If you continue to be with/think about/are hung up on a narcissist this is a one way ticket to continued misery. End it.
I do find this site extremely useful but I also find it very dismaying that some people seem to be using it to KEEP TALKING ABOUT THIS MAN. Please ask yourselves, when we are trying to support each other, are we helping or are we continuing our “need to give” behaviours which screw us up in the first place by enabling someone else and thereby being able to continue ourselves talking about “him”.
It ain’t about the various “hims” – it’s about all of us – and I do worry that too much emphasis goes onto the guys. I am guilty of this myself and certainly in the early days people really need to vent but at the end of the day there is only the work we can do on ourselves never to accept/normalise this kind of abnormal manipulation etc again.
Sorry to double post but I just realised something – hey, meant … you know what you should be reading? A book you like … anything. Your own personal taste in good literature. Or maybe the papers. Or a website about how to grow your own chili peppers. Whatever floats your boat because you need time off this thing, away from the search for answers and clues. Buy yourself a load of strawberries and enjoy them warm in the sunshine (maybe without the cream and sugar). Brush your hair till it shines. Drive somewhere beautiful listening to music that makes you happy. Anything … anything … that connects you to you and not to the hurt you feel.
The reason I say this is because (and this is leading on from the post above anyway) obsessing is abnormal behaviour and you are continuing to normalise what is not healthy if that’s all you do without you time. Yes it is good to understand but you have to balance it out with … deep breath … life.
Hugs x
@sadthing-you say your’s agreed with you when you said he had no heart.During one disagreement I told mine he was “cold,arrogant and emotionless.”His reply was “You are right,I am cold”.What’s the saying here on the posts-If he tells you something about himself,believe it!!If I think of the times he told me he didn’t get attached to people,had committment issues(had a terrible childhood-father left,drug addiction for many years),told me he didn’t deserve me,etc etc..if I had only seen those as red flags then.But I just thought he was being hard on himself and of course rushed to reassure him how wonderful he was.
Of course I find it interesting that he couldn’t give me any of that committment,attachment etc,but blossomed under all my attention,spoiling etc.BUT…he can be committed and dedicated and loyal to the new love of his life to the extent he could just cut me out without even looking backwards after 3 years.What is so special about HER??Another thing I’ve just noticed-he would never ever pay me any compliments.If I sent him a photo and he never commented,I would say “Didn’t you like the picture?”And he would say “Did I say I never liked it?”-a sort of twisted,backhanded acknowledgement,but that was that.Something I found very very odd,and I have never come across this before-he never used my name.In 3 years he called me by my name twice.Once was when he texted me to say “goodbye,it’s over”.And it wasn’t a case of “darling” or something similar instead as I called him,he never referred to me as anything.When I told him it bothered me,he never commented,or changed.It was almost a way of “humiliating” me,or keeping me in my place,now when I think back on it.
I know what and who he is,really.My logical mind tells me I am better off without him,And I am doing better than I was a few weeks ago.It’s just on lonely days when I allow myself to think just a liitle bit too long about it all,to go to the places which still hurt that I wonder why I should still feel twinges of pain when he is as happy as a lark.And the infuriating thing is that I did nothing wrong to him…I loved,I gave I supported I was loyal…it was just not enough.
I AM progressing,trying to look after myself,going to my therapist,spoiling myself.It’s just those moments where I realise that I am never going to see or speak to him ever again- the habit of the text or phone call or visit is still being broken.Or maybe more the annoyance with myself that he really wasn’t who I thought he was,and I was so blinded,that I didn’t have the savvy to see him for what he is-a parasite who took advantage of my generous,kind nature.I feel a fool for being “conned”.In hindsight,his actions should have been screaming warning bells in my head..guess my pride and ego is wounded.Two things which can be restored though!!:).
Thanks for reading my vent.I know everyone posting here really does understand…Just a difficult day today.
Hi Serena
Re the straight up heterosexual male thing – I meant that if a male is really interested in you he will chase and pursue and keep on pursuing – that his desire for you just isn’t physical but encompasses all aspects of you. For myself I cannot get interested in a male unless I know for sure that he finds my brain engaging and that I adore the way his brain works too.
Brad
I take your point about inappropriate comments but sometimes I am rather earthy myself but in a general way. When I found out that he was only interested in doing the friend thing I immediately countered with “OK, that’s cool at least I’m free to meet someone else.” When I related this to a girlfriend she said that he would not have liked hearing that and I said that it was too bad as his window of opportunity had passed.
Maybe it’s that his guy is super smart and I enjoy his company on a intellectual level. I’m not really actively looking for anyone – I never do -but if a male came into my orbit that ticks all the boxes for a relationship this friend would have to take a back seat in my life as I would only ever see him in the presence of my beloved. This guy works odd hours so I only see him sporadically anyway and only if the planets are in the right places for me (sarcasm).
I very much enjoy your male perspective on relationships and have visited your site a number of times for a read.
@Butterfly
Yes, you are right, we need to think about our own interests and what makes us happy. In reading “Women Who Love too Much†(I am 2/3 through it) I am coming to realize this, too. Yes, I am still looking for answers to this whole EUM situation I put myself in, but I feel I need to understand myself in general as well – I do have a lot of the characteristics and behaviours of the women Robin Norwood writes about. I seriously need to develop some boundaries, too, as I tend to let people “walk all over me†and I have been looking at my relationships with friends, too – some of them are EU, I now realize. For some reason, people who are not entirely emotionally happy/healthy are the friends I end up with – perhaps they like the fact I’m a good listener, and will allow them to talk about themselves for hours. Perhaps I am EU myself, as many of us here may be. I rarely talk about my own (significant) issues with friends, and it has actually been strange to write about myself on here – not what I’m used to at all!!! But because it’s anonymous, and others on here are going through some of the same things I am, and because of the support I have received, I have felt OK to actually talk about myself. Yes, I am still obsessing about him, and I know that’s abnormal. But I now realize I have been addicted to the relationship with him, and I need to recover from that.
You are right, I need to read something for pleasure, not just to find answers about *him*. I love music, but so does he, and I have been consciously trying to listen to music that I love, but that I don’t associate with my ex EUM. I am also taking dance classes and I went for a massage last week, which was amazing. It’s inspiring to hear that *you* have been taking care of yourself too, by going to the gym, enjoying a beautiful day, etc. Each day gets better as far as the yearning to hear from him and the habit of thinking about him. I love your analogy of the lemonade with the fizz going out! My plan for today is to get rid of some clutter around the house (*other* kinds of rubbish that I need to get rid of!).
Thanks again for your help and support Butterfly, and everyone else on here. I appreciate it more than you will ever know.
Obsessing really isn’t abnormal; it’s just unhealthy. It’s very normal in a grief process to want to do it. Looking for answers is common in any type of grief situation. But the realization does have to come one day that we probably won’t get any answers, even if we replay our relationship a million times, so it has to stop. It’s tough. The focus does have to be on ourselves because we are the most important person in our lives. Most of the time, after the relationship with an EUM is over, we intellectually know that this person could never make us as happy. We just have to have high enough self-esteem to believe we deserve much happiness in our lives, so working on self-esteem is very important. If we had really high self-esteem, I don’t think we’d be in these situations.
@Jupiter
Thanks for noting that obsessing is part of the grieving process. I agree we need to work on self-esteem issues to increase our resilience and our ability to avoid future EU relationships with others and with ourselves.
Just wanted to let you know that one of your earlier comments to me (when I went by “not meant to beâ€) really stuck with me, and continues to help keep me NC. On the day I broke up with my ex-MM you asked “Really, what are you getting out of this situation? Less than nothing.†And you are sooo right. Less than nothing because it detracts from my happiness, instead of enhancing it in any lasting way. You wrote that note at just the time I needed it (just before *the* break-up phone call). It was awesome!
@Snook — Thanks for the clarification. I just didn’t know if there was another common oddity in the behavioral aspects of EUM. It is so strange to me that this relationship still has me holding onto hope that he’ll look in the mirror and transform. I never thought I could change him. I just thought he was at a point in mid-life where he was coming to recognize his issues and was wanting to change. There were things he said that led me to believe this. During our break-up conversations (there were 3 after his move and he came back every time) he never pointed to anything about me or the relationship as the cause. It was always “what if six months down the road” and “I just have a gut feeling” and “I don’t know if I’m making the right decision” and “I’ve been stressing about this all the time” and “It’s not you, you’re awesome and I love you” yada, yada, yada, weird!! It’s been 4 weeks NC tomorrow. I know its killing him because of his need to maintain “friendships” with his exes. He takes pride in this. I always found it a bit odd but didn’t understand it until now!! His Harem!! At one point I almost said, “I refuse to become a member of the ‘I’ve dated ________ fan club!!’” and this was before I understood this EUM pattern. I think this is hard on me because I don’t have closure. It didn’t deteriorate and then end like a normal relationship. He pulled away at the peak of connection and intimacy with an expressed “I hope we both find a relationship just like this one that is long term.” WTF!! How do you get closure with something like this. I really want to contact him, get together face to face and tell him exactly how his bizarre behavior affected me. I know this will not be good for me though. Thanks again Snook. Today is a down day.
@Serena, sounds like this guy doesn’t have a clue of what it takes to make a relationship work. I hope you can find a way to turn today into a reflective day and learn something more about yourself.
@sadthing – thank you again for the kind words, my ex EUM word’s don’t match his actions. I have to keep reminding myself regardless of the reasons (a whole family of EU people – a very distant mother) it doesn’t make the pain hurt any less. I spent 6 years making excuses for his “shortcomings” taking on all the emotional labour in the relationship until I almost had a nervous breakdown – understanding the reasons didn’t help me then and won’t help me now. I need to find a way to move on – like many of us do! It’s difficult because what we know of EUM’s is familiar – now myself like many others have to start from scratch – with ourselves. I’ll be damned if I go running into the arms of the next guy just to help soothe (superficially) the pain – at 31 I will not be repeating this pattern in the next relationship, for now I know I’m not ready.
@ Jupiter, obsessing is part of the grieving process is true I agree, the time it takes depends a bit on the sort of person you are,.
Some are able to pick themselves up, understand that being attracted to these types is their problem and they need to focus on themselves, they don’t really need to understand why their ‘mates’ are like they are. Others need to understand what they were attracted to, and maybe why the person is like this BEFORE they can really believe that their sh*tty behaviour is nothing to do with them.
I belong in the second group, overly analytical maybe, but it’s taken me to understand my AC’s behaviour to realise that it has little to do with me. OK that I find him attractive in the face of his nonsense is something I need to work on, but I could never have done it without trying to understand what I’d been involved with.
We all have different journeys I guess, as long as we end up in the same place!
@ Serena, I so know what you’re saying, but forget closure, it just doesn’t happen with them. I’ve tried the ‘that’s it, it’s over’ speech several times but they never agree, leave you hanging with some variation on ‘ we’ll see in the future’ and the truth was that I wasn’t quite ready for total disconnection. Closure only comes when you decide to cut contact for real, with no more last connections of any sort. Sounds like you are doing this so hang in there.
@jupiter Yes I agree it is part of the grieving process – perhaps my meaning was unclear. There gets to a point, though, where going over and over about these men in detail is not what should be done.
Meant … music is damned tricky and was my major trigger for a long long time (it doesn’t matter if he likes music
)
@ Serena – amen re the harem crap. You get your closure knowing you are not part of that and never will be, closing the door and welding it shut (easier said than done, I know). As ever the case I might as well be reading what my ex said word for word – who feeds these idiots their lines? hugs
Serena… thanks for the message. What gets me about all this is exactly what NML’s post speaks to… I can’t even tell when this sort of thing is normal. I have no ideas if normal guys can talk about the future or if I set expectations too high and need to sit back and relax.
Either way my ex suddenly blew me off just like that, no mixed emotions, it was over and done with. Even after time passed and I broached the subject he told me to get over it it was done… after he had been talking long term. The only sign of mixed emotions was the continued rage he exhibits when I see him now as if he hates me. He certainly does not seem to have reached the point of simply not caring… he has gone from love to hate.
Either way it leaves me replaying the situation in my head, which is fruitless given that despite my attempts at reconciliation he has rudely told me where to go and get over it. Not sure how much more rejection I feel I need than that to get on with my life… it’s the sudden 24 hour turn around in emotions that leaves me baffled.
Thanks for all your support! I really need it and appreciate it right now!! This relationshp is unparalelled in my expereicne and I have nothing to reference to personally. Therefore, the validation of the experience coming from all of you is so healing!
@cece, I don’t think he had a clue as to what it takes to grow a relationship either! His thoughts pertaining to relationships seemed so juvenile at times.
@sadthing, I belong in the analytical group too with a need to understand what I was involved with before I move on. Regarding closure, after our last conversation 4 weeks ago he’s stayed away which is unusual in his pattern. In reality, I’m hoping that he’s miserable in himself and that he’s finally facing himself full on in the mirror. It’s likley wishful thinking on my part as he’s likely relying on his harem to support him through this and finding a new main shag. Who knows!! But at some point when I’m further detached emotionally I really want to confront him face to face and clearly communicate the impact of his behavior on me whether he cares or not. He fancies himself as an exemplar of respect. I kid you not!!
@butterfly, the harem thing is apparently so typical. Shortly before his move, I found a card written to him from a woman that said, “Thank you for being the special and kind person you are. I am blessed to have you in my life. Our time together has certainly been a bit strange, but I feel honored to be in your circle and spend time with you.” I’d say this is a classic example! YUCK!! You’re right, who feeds these lines or conducts the course “Harem Building 101.” What’s more is that every woman who sucks into this crap and pours adulation on these men feeds their sickness.
@ dazedandconfused — I completely empathize with you. What you experienced is not normal and has left you in the quandry of going from 100km per hour to a screeching halt never having applied the brakes. He slammed his foot on the brakes and its left you jolted. And to top it off, he doesn’t even have the dignity to explain why, he just blows you off, rejects you, and hurts you again. Who does that!! It’s NORMAL that you feel jolted and its NORMAL that you wonder why he did this to you because you would never engage in that behavior toward someone else. It NOT NORMAL that people end relationships this way, not people with any dignity anyway. And this guy is devoid in that department. You may never be able to completely figure it out because your brain doesn’t operate like his and thank God it doesn’t!! Anyway, here’s a tidbit that you may find helpful. From what I understand, EUM often bolt when they become emotionally attached at some level. And the level that they can take the attachment to is different for each one.
4 days of NC and it’s soooooooooooooooo freakin’ HARD!!! The online bf of 6 months has someone else on the side (although he denies it, the signs are all there – ie. not picking up the phone on certain nights, not calling, i always have to initiate the calls, not wanting to meet, etc). Four days ago I called and called and called and called some more and he wouldn’t pick up. So i left several voice mail messages breaking it off. Now I’m soooooooooooooo embarrassed that i acted like a looney I just wanna crawl in a cave and hide!!! And it’s been 4 days and he hasn’t even attempted to call me back. If I know he has someone else why can’t I move on????
@Coffee –
it doesn’t sound like you acted like a looney to me – just like someone who was frustrated and fed up with his behaviour. Are you positive he has someone else and is not just “blowing hot and coldâ€? If you are truly starting NC, it is good that he hasn’t tried to contact you, as that would make it even more difficult to move on. It is hard to move on for anyone who has lost a relationship, no matter how unhealthy it was or who broke up with whom. You need time to grieve the relationship. If you are committed to NC, I suggest you read NML’s post on the “no contact rulesâ€, follow them, and most of all, take care of yourself. Yes, NC is “freakin’ hard†(I can’t believe I got past 2 weeks!) but it really helps to give you some objectivity. I find exercise helps a lot (I take dance classes), and also getting in touch with friends I haven’t spoken to for a while, but mostly whatever makes *you* happy and keeps you occupied. As you have read here in the comments, it’s all about taking care of you – you are worth having fulfilling relationships with others, and with *yourself*. Best of luck to you!
@sadthing and Serena: I am also the analytical type who needs to “process the evidence†to quote CSI.
In fact, I am thinking of getting into therapy to help with the analysis of my own behaviour and relationship patterns. Does anyone have a suggestion as to the type of therapist that is most likely to be effective in getting over relationship addiction to EUM’s? Psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker, cognitive behavioural therapist? I just need a clue on where to start looking for the best person for the job. I definitely want a female.
@ Meant to be Happy -
You are on 2+ weeks of NC?? Wow, u are SO STRONGGG!!!!! *Huggiezz, proud of you!* I’m only into day 4 & so wanting to cave already!!! Somebody stop meeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!! I would feel ashamed if i called him, like a sucker who can’t take a hint! The fact that he hasn’t responsed to my voicemail in 4 days shows he no longer wants me. I don’t hate him and I’m not mad at him. He’s still a great guy and always will be. I wish him nothing but true happiness. Even though i’m hurting. I just want to make this pain go away.
To break up w/ him on voice mail, without a word back from him, that’s the hardest part…no closure, no nothing, just a sudden end…
Meant to be Happy
It makes me really happy that my comment stuck with you and helped you. These relationship situations are just so hard sometimes, and I take strength in many things that are said here and am glad that someone might find strength in what I’ve said. I’m going to find Codependent No More at my library and read it; I heard it’s a great read for people who find themselves in unsatisfying relationships.I need all the help I can get. Good luck to you.
@Meant to be Happy
I just read your last comment.
I think therapy is a great idea. I actually have been in therapy before, which helped me finally break it off. I will be starting again once I start graduate school and have mental health insurance again. They also have group therapy at the college I will be attending, and I plan on going.
From what I understand and the advice I have been given, the best therapy incorporates an eclectic mix of therapies (behavioral, cognitive, etc.) Depending on what insurance you’ll be using, you can find a therapist in their database, and they usually have short description of the therapy they use, their style, and what their specialties are. Some specialize in grief and relationship issues.
Truly, I wish you the best.
Thanks Jupiter
Have you done the group therapy before, and if so, how did you like it?
Best of luck in grad school – it’s a lot of work, but so worth it in the end (kind of like ending it with an EUM!!!)
I love this post NML. Letting women know it’s time to bring the focus back where it belongs!! 2nd month of NC and I feel really good. I decided not to focus on him and really worked on ME. There is no better feeling than loving yourself unconditionally, it literally changes all aspects of your life.
@ coffee – someone can stop you. Someone wiser, stronger and who cares about you and how you feel. Someone who will forgive you for your human frailties, will kick you up the arse and be tough with you, will take charge of you, will guide you intuitively. You have to let her though.
Her name is coffee.
@ Meant – you do not need a social worker sweetheart
Therapy might well be one of your answers, wish I could find a suitable therapist who speaks English.
@ Serena – yes I agree about the actual emotional attachment thing. What sparked galvanised me into purposeful action, what sparked made him run.
To all those who probably think I am being glib: spent most of last night crying after going on a date against my better judgement and feeling thoroughly crappy. I know that will pass, but every day is different (and although I will see this guy again it won’t be in a romantic sense, red flag!!! red flag!!!)
Hey, I broke the NCR about 3 weeks ago now. Really wish i hadn’t… as it took a toll on my current relationship. I with a fantastic guy, who gives 100%. He doesn’t play games and is honest with me, it’s really thrown me off after my last relationship.
My ex kept texting me offering me the world etc – and when i replied he couldn’t be bothered to make any form of effort despite keep saying it. Actions speak louder than words.
So, perhaps childishly, i played a little game. I told him i didn’t want him, he could NEVER have me again cos what he’d done to me made me beyond unavailable. I said how fabulous the guy i’m with now is… then I stopped texting last night and so far i’ve got three texts, all saying the EXACT things i want to hear.
Things he hasn’t given away from our private life, like things we did and said, pet names which only we understood. Things he didn’t try to recreate with the woman he cheated on me to be with, or hasn’t told his new gf.
I don’t know if i’m being harsh, but it makes me wonder why he’s recreating these things y’know?
Either way, reading this page has made a huge difference to me. And i’m certaintly not going to keep going around in circles with him any longer. I wanted to reply, cos he sounds like the man i love, but really… i fell for a fantasy man and i deserve better than being blamed for all the bad he did! So back to the NCR and i’m sticking to it for good – because he will never change.
Thanks all
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