The tricky situation: Jennifer explains…. I got divorced in 2010 and in 2013 I met another man and married him. He’s a very good husband to me, very caring, helpful, and romantic. Our wedding was in my garden, with the presence of my family only, because he told me his children would not come anyway.
From then on I did everything in my power to get to know his four children. I’ve contacted them through Facebook, sent them some messages, Christmas presents, presents for the baby his daughter just had. There was only silence from their side, till one day the daughter invited me to her house (in another city) but treated me in a terribly cold way. She also told me that her brothers do not want to know about me.
Recently, the daughter-in-law responded to an invitation from me with, “I’m a Catholic and I cannot talk to you, because for me there is only one marriage”. His daughter then sent me a message saying that I will never be welcomed there because of her mother! Well, my husband hasn’t lived with his ex-wife for more than 20 years and I do not understand that.
But, there is more. Last time my husband went there, his eldest son asked him to remove his wedding ring because his mother would come to the party—and he did! It was a terrible shock to me. When I asked him why he did that, he said his ex-wife likes a fight and a show and she would say something that would ruin the party for the children.
I’m never invited. If there’s a party, the invitation comes here in his name only. This goes for everything—-recently there was the wedding of the second son and of course my husband went on his own.
Some weeks ago he wrote a letter to each child of his saying I’m his wife now and they have to accept it, however there was no response at all. His brothers and sisters have accepted me and I see them on a regular basis, but don’t know what to do about the children and I also think that something is wrong about taking the wedding ring off when the ex-wife is present. What do you think?
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One of my pet peeves is when people get all judgmental, rude, and even badly behaved, and then claim that it’s for religious reasons. No it’s not! Your husband’s adult children and his ex-wife are being unkind but if you want to feel better about this situation and move forward, you need to learn how to get behind your own line and actually, your husband needs to clearly communicate his boundaries and that includes protecting his marriage with you.
It’s not easy when marriages break down. Even when the kids are grown up, it can still be a sore point or there can be a weirdness–my girls have eight grandparents and it can be tricky enough dealing with their personalities, one upmanships, grievances and carry-on. Children sometimes take sides but also, sometimes one or both parents have a habit of guilting the children and being divisive. It is not always possible to get on with the mother or father of your children but what doesn’t need to happen is being divisive in your children’s relationship with your ex-spouse and encouraging them to be disrespectful.
It strikes me that his admission that his children wouldn’t come to the wedding (and incidentally, there’s a big difference between asking and being declined, and then assuming that they’re not going to come….), has ‘activated’ you and sent you into hyperactive people pleaser on steroids mode, and this is proving to be your blind spot and the key source of your pain. I understand your desire to cultivate a relationship with his children, but turning into the people pleaser energiser bunny after you’ve already married their father, is akin to closing the door after the horse has bolted. You clearly did not need their approval to get married (nor did he in principle), so why are you seeking it post wedding? That makes no sense.
Are you trying to sabotage your own happiness? Is your comfort zone being the good girl going around town people pleasing and being rejected?
It’s also patently clear that you had not gotten to know the children prior to engagement (or at the point of it). Maybe you took it as a foregone conclusion that they would be cool with you or assumed that once married, they’d have no choice but to accept you. Maybe he glossed over the extent of the issues–‘They’ll come round’. Maybe you were so caught up in the flushes of romance and maybe even feeling like, Yes! I am not single anymore!, that you didn’t do some ‘reccy’ (reconnaissance) where you surveyed and observed what type of family dynamic you were entering into or his relationship with his kids and the overall situation. Whatever it is though–and the kids are still out of order–the ball has been dropped.
Your husband is doing too little too late. He may be a “very good husband” but you know what, Jennifer? He has a fear of confrontation that’s in danger of damaging your marriage if he doesn’t step up to the plate. I don’t know what crack he has been smoking, but taking off his wedding band, is incredibly disrespectful and hurtful. I am not asking him to cuss out his ex-wife or his kids but every time he fails to draw the line in person and he shows up without you, he’s letting them know that his marriage to you is not real. He’s inadvertently colluding with them; he’s allowing them to not only continue living in the past but for them to run his life. You say that you don’t understand, considering that he and his ex-wife have been done for twenty years but newsflash: your husband has been going along with things for that time so a pattern’s been established.
What I do know is that you are trying way too hard and I know that you have good intentions but Jennifer, you’re making a doormat of yourself and you’re putting more question marks over your head because it’s as if you’re trying to convince them. Stop the brown-nosing!
All you’re doing is pumping them up and causing them to wonder what your ‘game’ is. You’re repeatedly opening you up to being disrespected. Imagine you had a child who wanted to get in with the gang of people who dislike him/her or who have been openly dismissive of them? Would you pat them on the back and say, “There, there baby! You go in there tomorrow and offer them your lunch, your pocket money and anything else you’ve got. Keep trying until they can’t say no anymore!”, or would you say, “Honey, I know it’s hard when people dislike you or don’t want to be your friend even when you haven’t done anything to make them dislike you, but you’ve got to leave these people alone. Every time you throw yourself at them, you are hurting you! You haven’t done anything wrong. You’re still a good person. I don’t know why these people don’t want you in their gang but what I do know is that they’re missing out and that it’s best that you’re not around them if that’s the way they are. Spend time around the people who love and appreciate you for who you are”.
Jennifer, you must stop opening you up to rejection in this way. What you’re doing is a form of self-rejection–you’re being a glutton for punishment. You keep looking for approval, validation and acceptance, while saying bad things about you. These are all untruths that will ensure your unhappiness.
Things have changed and they don’t like it. They feel threatened. His family have their own set of beliefs that although you don’t agree with them, it’s their values. Respecting them doesn’t mean agreeing with them–it means live and let live. The problem of your husband’s children and his ex-wife has nothing to do with you not being “good enough”. They’re not going to make an exception for you. You trying to guilt them through your people pleasing into feeling obliged to behave more decently is only going to fuel resentment on all sides.
Stop trying to be “right”. Look into your heart, look into your past and examine your true motivations for what you’re doing because it looks like this situation is bringing out an unhealed wound from your past. Get a piece of paper and write down memories and associations with not being accepted. Anything that pulls on you emotionally, is why you’re doing what you are today. Once you address the old pain, you will be able to put this situation into perspective.
Open up to your husband and explain your struggle and how you have felt when you have not only been excluded, but that he’s been a party to it. Describe how you feel and what he and they have been doing without going down the blame path. The easiest way to do this is to talk in facts. e.g. When you ________________, it feels as if you don’t _____________ because you don’t stand up for me or for us.
You don’t need to ‘do’ anything about the children–they’re not children. Thank goodness you don’t have to rear them!
You cannot force them to invite you but you know what? Your husband has married you so he needs to find a way to integrate you or to stop excluding you. He doesn’t need to attend every function he’s invited you. The consequence of their actions is that they see him less. Boom! They can’t have it all ways. He must stop getting on board with repeatedly excluding you, no more listening to them talk crap about you and no more ring removal. That. is. not. on. They can have their opinion but they don’t need to share it with him (or you). Find a solution you can both live with–accept that you and they are not about to be bezzy mates, stop brown-nosing, and he cuts down on accepting the invites and excluding you.
His kids may never get on board with his marriage but you have a choice: you can step back, know that you have tried your best, and focus on enjoying your marriage and spending time with his (the welcoming ones) and your own family, or you can keep flogging a dead horse. The weird thing is, when you stop showing how desperate you are for their approval, they’ll very possibly amend their behaviour. Take care.
Each Wednesday, I help a reader to solve a dilemma. To submit a question, please email natalie AT baggagereclaim.com with ‘Advice Wednesday’ in the subject line. If you would prefer your question to be featured on the podcast, drop a line to podcast AT baggagereclaim.com. Keep questions below 200 words. For in-depth support, my consultation service is booked up (you can join the waiting list).
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NML,
Love your advice to Jennifer! Here is my question: If Jennifer speaks up for herself, but her husband CONTINUES with his existing behavior, then what are Jennifer’s choices? I have not been in THIS particular situation, but I think it may be quite possible that he wants to continue status quo. As you stated, HIS behavior is disrespectful. So if he is unwilling to change (maybe Jennifer’s fear) does it come down to:
A. Suck it up and be miserable
B. Keep trying – counseling?
C. End of marriage if she doesn’t accept he won’t change
And MAYBE he will. I’m reflecting on my former marriage and there were a few significant things I asked for and was denied. Not what Jennifer is saying, but same level of importance. My requests were denied. So I guess I’m asking, if there is no compromising with him, but in all OTHER respects she is happy, is the marriage solid and caring?
Good morning everyone,
Taking off the wedding ring is a totally shitty and disrespectful thing to do, why does he even care what his ex wife thinks?
I guess another option for the husband could be meeting his kids in a coffee shop/BBQ at the park/public place instead of going to their houses all the time and including Jennifer in those occasions. The kids are less likely to be spoilt brats in public (I would hope anyway).
Good luck Jennifer xx
Wise words Nat! X
Natalie is right, your husband is in collusion with his adult kids. Please set boundaries and remember none of this behavior (your husbands as well as his adult kids) has anything to do with you. This was all set in motion decades before you came into the picture. My very best to you Jennifer.
My question is, if his kids are Catholic with such staunch beliefs (and it seems his ex-wife too, not wanting to see a wedding band on her ex’s finger) are they not perhaps Jennifer’s husband’s beliefs as well? If they raised their kids that way I’m inclined to think he holds the same views, and is the motivation behind him going along with their demands… he feels they are right. His lack of loyalty towards Jennifer, putting her feelings behind those of his kids… doesn’t this perhaps show how he views Jennifer? More like a wife who doesn’t have real wife status or privilege because she is “the second one”? Did he marry her out of guilt to be able to have a guilt free sexual relationship with her, but not entirely feeling right with her actual place as his other half? This is a highly complexed situation. Jennifer will probably never ‘win the kids over’ but yes, she should stop trying to. Live her own life and work on creating a new one with her husband and everyone else who wishes to be a part of it. I would also start probing some deep discussions with hubby and get him to work through the foundations of what causes his behavior. Let him spend time alone with his kids – he shouldn’t have to choose between them and his new wife, Jennifer should be mature enough to understand his kids do not have to like and accept her or risk not see the dad. She can take the time alone to enjoy doing her own thing, hobbies or friends or anything else, it can only be healthy as long as it is not at their significant and meaningful traditional times. But let hubby know this compromise comes at the expense of him learning not to jump to their demands so as not to offend the ex wife. He has moved on, and they need to in some way too.
Firstly, I want to thank you for this site, Nat. It’s been an absolute Godsend. I’ve been on here for five years doing some really good work on myself. I can honestly say that since I’ve been on here I’ve been able to really work on accepting myself as I am (warts and all) and to accept those I love as they are. My relationships have all hugely improved and the negative ones, I’ve stepped away from.
This actually triggered something in me as we’ve had issues as a wider family of having to take person ‘X’ if we want a relationship with person ‘Y’, as children and then young adults. Consequently, in my 30’s, I have stepped away from a lot of X&Y pairings for the sake of inner peace & mental health. I’m not saying that anyone is causing trouble in this situation, I’m just thinking of it from another perspective. Relationships, good/real ones, should be voluntary on both sides. No one should be tricked or forced into having a relationship with someone they don’t want to be around, for whatever reason. Although I do feel for this lady and I wouldn’t know where to go from here in her situation. I genuinely hope it works out – good luck:)
I just want to again say thank you, Natalie. This is my first time posting and I’ve wanted to say this for ages. Also, thanks to everyone else who’s posted over the years as I’ve learnt so much from you guys. I’ve been so encouraged, I can’t even tell you how much. Everyone says this but I honestly wish we had these sort of lessons in school or something. I think the world would be a better place, I really do.
This situation sounds incredibly stressful and I truly feel it for Jennifer… I’d be curious to know how long she was with her hubby before they decided to get married? And whether or not she had opportunities to get to know his kids before they got hitched?
When my Mum met my step-dad it seemed as if he had become a member of our family overnight! I was neither consulted (I was only 7 at the time) nor was I asked how I’d feel about living with a virtual stranger who I knew jack shit about. Consequently, I resented his presence and this was amplified by the fact that he was also an aggressive bully, and a control freak too (he never had kids of his own).
I guess what I’m trying to say is, if hubby and Jennifer had made more effort to build a rapport with his kids prior to marrying (or at the very least, given them a chance to suss his new woman out for themselves before deciding they want nothing to do with her), then this situation could’ve been avoided. However, I fully agree that hubby needs to STEP UP and support his new wife! Stop pandering to your ex and kids! Start supporting your new wife and NEVER remove your wedding band again!
I have been in this situation, and the marriage did not survive. I was demonized, and I suffered a lot of abuse. Getting out was difficult, but I was obsessed with trying to please these people and there was absolutely no way to do so and I finally had to rescue myself. I agree with the question: If the husband doesn’t comply, then what (especially if ending the marriage isn’t an option you want to consider)?
My personal advice to add to Nat’s amazing (as always) insight: If he continues to go to these family events without you, find things to do during those times that you enjoy very much, with people you like a lot, or that he would normally do with you. It will feel “spiteful” at first, but the ultimate goal will be to allow yourself to look forward to your time without him/them and not feel shackled to dysfunction. He may respond by criticizing you for what he will perceive as retaliation, but don’t bite at the bit. Let him know he is welcome to join you but you can’t sit at home feeling bad just because he’s leaving you out of family events. And if he wants you to sit at home feeling bad, then that’s mean and controlling behavior on his part.
This may be going too far, but I’d almost recommend that if his wedding ring comes off, yours does too. Being married involves two people, equally, at all times. This would be a last resort to me, probably equivalent to taking off the gloves and starting a divorce discussion…
I’m in total agreement with Larisa. I was also in a marriage where I lost myself. My ex’s adult kids were angry, abusive, and aggressive.
It’s difficult to gain perspective until you leave an unbalanced, reckless, and disrespectful marriage behind you.
Jennifer,
I wonder if its a deal-breaker for you to be put aside so deliberately. It was for a friend of mine — eventually — though she put up with it for several years before she realized what his actions said about his feelings for her. He kept choosing ex-wife and kids over her.
I agree with Natalie: there is something in your past that is making you treat yourself this way. That is the essence of what I keep learning and relearning at Baggage Reclaim. I am doing it to me because I have a blind spot in loving myself. Almost always I am people-pleasing to do what Nat calls “running up a debt that they owe me.” It always causes resentments, disrespect and lowers my self-esteem.
Great advice, Natalie.
This one threw me for a loop at first. Typically, I get a sense of what Nat’s response will be before I get to it. This time I had to read the advice and sit a bit and think what would I do. Well.
Truth be told, I would never ever ever enter into a marriage (no matter how kind, great, romantic, good looking, etc…) where I was being unjustly ostracized by my partners’ family members without complete assertiveness, and backing from my partner. I would never marry a man who wouldn’t stand up for me appropriately. I mean you are his wife for goodness sake. I’m not saying he should be abusive and retaliate (not at all) but he’s not even firmly addressing the issue, much less assertively, and certainly not appropriately with his family. If I were him, I would not attend events without my wife (CURRENT wife), etc.
His children and ex wife are ridiculous and so is his passivity. He’s basically going along with the whole thing and not putting up too much fuss. The behavior of his children and ex wife is truly abhorrent. No decency. I get the feeling maybe he’s trying to come out as the good guy (not ruffle too many featherers) but his lack of boundaries on your behalf doesn’t make him sound so good.
Absolutely agree! Jennifer it seems you were a bit shortsighted. When you marry you don’t just marry a person, you marry into a family. Failing to get to know your husband’s family before tying the knot was not the brightest of things to do. And you unfortunately are having to face the consequences of that mistake now.
I am sorry but my opinion is that your husband’s attitude and behaviour in this situation is a reflection of how he deals with the world, not just his family and ex wife. He lacks the man parts to stand up and assert himself. As a result you are continuously being disrespected and treated as unworthy not just by them , BUT HIM too. You are his wife. He has a responsibility to stand by you and have your back at all times. And no one should have to tell him this! Instead he is allowing this dysfunctional situation to worsen everytime he panders to the whims and fancies of his spoilt adult children and pathetic ex wife! It’s clear his children don’t want him to be happy.
I think you have to sit him down and let him know how this is hurting you. And if he refuses to do anything about it. ..then you have some serious thinking to do about the type of future you are going to have with him. I am also wondering whether you are trying so hard, because you desperately want this marriage to work ,since its your second marriage. If that’s the case you placing yourself in a very disempowered position. Centre yourself and take back your power Jennifer! Good luck.
I don’t know but something is wrong with this story. I can’t imagine that a man that has been divorced for over 20 years is having this kind of drama with his kids and ex-wife. I am sure he has dated other woman in between that time, so I’m not sure why his adult kids are acting like their parents just got divorced! It seems to me that either her husband is not being completely honest with her about his involvement with the ex-wife or their is some money or assets involved in this drama.
Hi Stephanie,
I have a friend whose parents divorced over 25 years ago. Dad left mom and the kids. He quickly married new wife and moved in with her and her kids (same gender/ages for the most part). My friend’s mom was HEARTBROKEN UNTIL THE DAY SHE DIED. My friend did NOT attend her father’s 2nd wedding and is still hurting all these years later that her father in essence left their family and joined a ready-made new one. STILL doesn’t care for dad’s second wife.
So we don’t know this guy’s history for the last 20 years. But “adult children” absolutely hold grudges and transfer pain from years ago. Seeing as he already KNEW his kids wouldn’t attend the wedding as someone stated above, the dynamics of this situation were created long ago.
I wonder if the ex wife even knows he is married again.
In the scenario u described I can see bitter feelings, but in the story that Natalie describes something is missing. I suspect the Dad did something that is making his kids angry and I suspect like your friend he must have left the ex wife at some point.
To every uncoupled woman who looks at marriage from the outside and thinks that being married means life is perfect, well, this letter shows that you never know what is going on in a marriage unless you are in it.
The husband in this marriage is the only one who can set the behavior right, and he is not up for the challenge. I have experienced the crazy-ex histrionics – I understand that taking off the wedding ring may have been the best choice for the occasion – crazy ex’s look for any excuse to throw a fit and cannot be reasoned with. Maybe his ex is a Betty Broderick. But….I’m a little suspicious of his motivation for mentioning it to you….the fact that he did tells me he enjoys inflicting a little insecurity in his women..but depending on how he brought it up, he may have been trying to be transparent about things. And I am confused about your wedding – were the children invited…?…or were invitations never issued because the hubby-to-be said they “would not come anyway”? This group of people sounds like they live to take offense, so what came first, a perceived slight or their immature behavior?
Anyway, it does not matter. I agree that Jennifer needs to stop trying to win them over. Until hubby decides to bring order to this chaos, Jennifer needs to disengage from this family drama.
If hubby wants to work on correcting this, any future invitations that are addressed only to him should be returned via mail with “wrong addressee” written on it in his handwriting.
And what are all these “occasions” that he feels he must participate in – kid’s birthdays/graduations/recitals….?..weddings…?..send a card…with no money inside. Barbecues? Have your own backyard party. Other than funerals, or hospital stays, there is no real need to attend every family function when the family is refusing to recognize his new wife.
Isn’t there some saying about how the family you pick can be more dear than the family you’re born into? Hubby needs to pick his family by choosing those who support him, starting with Jennifer.
From where I see the story focusing on kids is focusing away from the real problem. Their attitude doesn’t say anything about or much about you, Jennifer, but says much about what kind of relationship is between them and your husband – it apperas unclear and unresolved, same as with ex wife. There is no rule that kids should like or even love you (eventually) and there is no rule you should like or love them, just because they are your husband’s kids. You are strangers to each other and things can develop only without pressure and with mutual agreement and respect. What I miss in your story is basic human respect, from all sides. Having two parents with unresolved issues is quite enough for not wanting to have a third party in it…who would want to be in triangulations knowing whatever you do, at least one out of three will make problems…(Can you really expect them to act normally considering example they are getting from parents? What were the reasons YOU didn’t check this out bf. marrying him. You could learn in advance what to expect of him if you had a child with him one day fx.)You made your point, you would like to meet and get to know them, and that’s it. Constant invitations might appear as a control attempt from your side, especially after the wedding (fx. she didn’t care about meeting us before marriage…). Don’t allow yourself to carry your husbands’ issues with kids on your shoulders. You don’t need to resolve it, he does. He’s the one who had a chance and duty to teach them what normal loving relationships are. If you do get to meet them, be relaxed and yourself, it might turn out you have something in common or it might not. Basic respect should do. Howere your focus should be on what you need and want from your husband and marriage. Kids thing is on his shoulders. Ring thing is on yours,too.