Sometimes you think that you’re OK about the one you let go of because you think, Well, they’re not the marrying kind, and then even though you’ve moved on, when you hear that they’ve only gone and done what was considered the unthinkable, it can cause you to feel unsettled. You might doubt your original judgment about the situation or question how into you they really were. Being wooed and pursued by someone who at the same time laments their inability to give you what you want, can feel quite flattering. You might feel extra special and so when you do move on, there might be a part of you thinking that you were the person they really wanted to be different for but couldn’t.
I suspect that this has a part to play in today’s Advice Wednesday where she’s seemingly happily married but a year into it, she’s discovered that the ex who didn’t want marriage, is married. He’s now sniffing around, sending her messages and she suspects that he wants to mess with her heart and her mind again.
I think the lesson here that can really be applied to all sorts of situations not just a romantic one is, don’t rent out space in your head to people who say one thing, do another, or who are quite simply all charm and not much else because before they’ve even done anything, you start using up your energies trying to make sense out of nonsense and trying to anticipate their motives, what their next move is.
When it comes to people who are not that into boundaries and who love an ego stroke, the bulk of their thrills comes from knowing that they can still ‘command’ a response from you. It’s like, Yeah baby! I’ve still got the magic touch. Knowing that they can have you or that they can certainly insert themselves into your consciousness and potentially disrupt your well-being and/or how available you are to a current partner, is in their mind, as good as having you. Don’t give them the space or the opportunity. Flush! And don’t respond. Silence says a great deal more than your words will.
Have you had an ex pop up out of the woodwork when you’re all moved on? What did you do? Have you had an ex say that they’ll never commit/marry only for it to look as if they’re living the great fairy tale with someone else? What advice do you have for Priti?
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I’ve had three husbands, all three of whom remarried very shortly after we were divorced. All three have been married for years now, and seem quite happy. My attitude is that I wish them well, but I don’t envy their new wives. I know what the wives are getting, and–well–it’s no big deal.
Sometimes men marry for specific reasons, such as they need help supporting themselves while they go to college or they want to have a family and need a mother for their kids or they need someone to help them take care of their elderly parents. But when their needs have been fulfilled, they want to have all their options open again. And I say, if that’s all they care about, let them have their options and welcome to them. I’m quite happy as a busy, single woman and frankly, I’m glad each of the three of them is now somebody else’s problem.
“My attitude is that I wish them well, but I don’t envy their new wives. I know what the wives are getting, and–well–it’s no big deal.” Love this! Exactly.
My ex wanted a self-effacing sidekick, emotional punching bag, and mother of future children… I don’t want kids and was looking for a best friend and confidante. How we stayed together two years is beyond me!
Must say I am sure a lot of my ex’s insecure, conniving female “friends” whose sneaky harassment and juvenile antics I put up with for two years (and never once saw as a red flag as to his own – or my own – emotional state, *facepalm*) are over the moon about our recent breakup…
Have at him ladies;) Everyone involved – me, ex, etc. thinks they’re secretly winning at this outcome and that’s fine by me. I don’t give a hoot about any of them because they’re not my problem anymore.
Only thing I care about related to any of that or them is putting in the time and work with MYSELF to id and avoid similar situations in the future.
Natalie: You always come through when I need you. I am nearly two years out of a two plus year relationship with a man, who at the time was newly divorced (ladies…big mistake) and who cared for me, was charming and involved, but said he couldn’t give me what I wanted. We departed when I made it clear that I did not want to waste my time on someone who wasn’t “committed” and he moved on to someone who he had lined up as my replacement. We had only brief texting contact after our break, but nothing for many months. Within 18 months of our breakup, he married her! I was a bit hurt that it “couldn’t be me”, but she is nothing like me…a totally different age (18 years younger) and vastly different cultural, worldly experiential and educational background (ahem…not as good as mine I have to say…sorry, but it is so true). While I haven’t heard from him (yet) since he married, he did text me a few times in advance of his marriage when he must have known he was about to be married. I told him I was blocking him.
I have come to realize that, of course, he couldn’t commit to me because he wasn’t interested in marriage to someone like me. He met his match…a woman he most likely can control and direct in a way that he never would have been able to with me. (Again, I apologize for the assumptions, but I know it to be true). They probably are an ideal match because she needs him in a way he can provide (materially, financially) that I did not need. I needed him more emotionally and spiritually…something he couldn’t provide to me and I doubt that he is providing to her. The union works because of the middle ground that they likely are able to achieve. I have come to peace with the fact that he never would have been able to be the person that I needed. So, ladies…do not necessarily think that simply because they moved on to someone because they couldn’t give You what you wanted, that they give that same stuff to someone else. It simply could be that the new person needs something different from them…something that they can give. Lesson learned.
Beverly reading your words is like reading my situation sooo on POINT! I too have finally realized the same about my ex not being what I needed especially in a healthy way. Thank you!!! Now I can stop thinking I’m crazy!!
Wonderful response!!! Thank you for the new perspective!
Ow Beverly! You’re so right! Some men really aren’t developed enough to boost their own self esteem, so they use young girls for that.. Why in the hell would you lock with someone 18 years younger!? No offence to anyone but You’re better off without him Beverly! Too good for him anyways!!
“Why in the hell would you lock with someone 18 years younger!?”
Easily answered. Because they’re young and as such easily impressionable, often naive, don’t question, don’t know how to trust their instincts yet, don’t strongly know their mind and/or lack confidence to assert themselves when faced with BS.
I have to say that I think it really depends on each individual situation. I’ve seen age gap relationships that do work. Ultimately, I think that age is just a number. Obviously some men have insincere intentions and are looking to manipulate when dating much younger women, but I don’t think that’s true in every situation. On the other hand, I’ve known some really immature old people. I’ve known 50 or 60 year olds who act like they’re still in junior high. It’s depressing, but true. My last ex (the one who brought me to BR, so this was a few years ago now) was 10 years older than me and at 34, I think that he was one of the most emotionally immature people I’ve ever I met.
Bev,
I know young men in their early twenties who are mature, caring, and thoughtful. And date amazing women.
Obviously things must be legal; age really can just be a number in terms of maturity once someone is an adult.
It’s about values.
This is very Dionne Warwick’s Psychic Friends Network, because this literally just happened to me today! And it was the OG Assclown who brought me to BR years ago (so, I guess he did one good thing? ;)). In any event, I agree with Nat – ignore, ignore, ignore. It’s actually somewhat funny if you think about it, because these ninnies think they are so desirable (they’re not) that their exes who are happy with someone who isn’t a moron are going to trip over themselves to respond to their texts. TEXTS. Boy, bye.
I blocked all the lurkers, on my phone, on my email and on facebook. Go away and stay gone. Done
Kirsten,
I blocked all my lurkers, too! It felt so good! I am calling them “lurkers” from now on. Love that label.
~Laura
Great advice, as always, from Natalie.
Battling with something similar, except it’s an ex affair partner who is sniffing around, rather than an ex boyfriend.
I’ve confessed my several occasions of cheating (over many yrs) to my partner, who wanted me to stay and work on the relationship and has actually made substantial changes to address the issues with our relationship which drove me to cheat. I also want to work on the relationship and have resolved not to cheat, and that in the worst case scenario I will do the right thing and end my relationship rather than cheat again.
My ex affair partner, however, has done nothing of the sort, and continues to deceive his wife. He also insists on contacting me to sniff around whenever he is back in my country, to see if he’s still “got it” and if he can lure me off the fidelity wagon.
I’ve tried cutting him off, but then he successfully guilt trips me about not wanting to be “friends”. Every. F***ing. Time. After I try to cut him off.
I know deep down that I need to grow a pair and recognise that him pretending to be hurt when I try and cut off all contact is actually just him being pissed off that I am cutting off a source of a potential extra-marital shag.
Hi E, you do not have to be friends with him, your partner is obviously really trying to do the right thing by you and being friends with the *affair ex* means you are not doing right by your partner. Yes you do need to grow some balls and cut off all contact, who cares if he is hurt he apparently doesn’t seem to care about your feelings at all. If you really, really want things to work with your relationship then having someone in the background isn’t going to help.
“…and has actually made substantial changes to address the issues with our relationship which drove me to cheat. ”
Nobody drives anyone to cheat. There is no point being on a self-help site when you are disowning your own emotional baggage.
Hi Priti,
I agree with Natalie–it’s true, the whole creating a distraction, telling you one thing that doesn’t factor out with the other (acting romantic, claiming to not want marriage, but wanting a best friend?!!) oh, and then poof! now he’s married and looking to mentally dick whip (sorry to be crass) someone at his own convenience? Why, why, why?! SO weird! He sounds like a frosted flake to me, or prince mama drama. I’ve been through it too, but I’m not married to anyone..so there’s only one person for this type to mess with, rather than 2 people. Don’t worry about why he’s doing this now, just leave it. You can’t always get what you want-THE TRUTH-from everyone!! It’s very unfair, but then it could be a blessing in disguise too. Maybe in the future it’ll make more sense, hopefully and you’ll have your realization about Mr. Frosted Fake.
My ex and I had the most dragged out hurtful breakup! It finally ended when I purposefully slept with him one last time to specifically use it against him if he ever came back, which he did 9 mos later in a text message pic of his newborn child! I ratted him out then and there to his new baby mama…she was devastated but they stayed together . Fast forward 18 mos and as I’m walking out my door there’s my ex WITH his child!! He proceeded to call me twice before ultimately I changed my number.
It’s been a year and I think it’s finally done….ill never, see, hear or speak to him again. So yeah…I took the hard road to “No Contact” land.
Now if I can only get out of the “obsessing” phase ????… Please don’t judge (I look at his FB page and it just kills me ???? We’re not friends his page is public).. Anyone out there got some advice? PLEASE!!!! I really do want to move on! I take various classes to get myself back out there and I am diligently working on healing my inner spirit ????????. If I could conquer this it would be and feel amazing!!
No judgement here, but I can understand feeling powerless within a very sick, emotionally abusive situation-although I am not assuming this is what you were going through, it does sound kind of abusive to me..I’m not sure why you felt the need to sleep with this guy one more time-or if it was all you, or maybe he was pressuring you? (this has happened to me, the ‘one more time baby’ after they break up with you ‘one more time before you go’ sickness…this is just me, (my self worth is and has been in the toilet for years, never changing)! so..if my advice is off I apologize sincerely, but I can only relate from what I’ve been through…it sounds like this guy may be a very sick person, and you need to find someone to talk to about it, and continue absolute no contact–which means you can’t FB stalk him (for reasons other than what you may, or may not need for your own protection…) Sometimes you just have to allow that what happened to you will never make sense, and there will never be any closure, ever. You were hurt, and they didn’t care, and he may have taken advantage of your pain for an ego stroke! So let them be that way…it’s not very attractive is it? you have to find some support for you, and be HONEST about it. Don’t take the blame for his actions. Don’t try to make sense of it, because what he did isn’t realistically about you. Some people are just cold, callous, and make no apologies for getting whatever they want in the moment. Like having a baby, a human life, and then throwing it in your face…after you decided to go no contact! M-E-A-N.
Thank you for your response! It really helps me keep it all in perspective…everything you’ve said is 100% spot on! I’m also proud to say that I’ve stopped stalking his FB page…I’m now 3 days clean and sober!! One day at a time!
Good for you. I’m so happy for you! You don’t deserve to be treated like trash-ever, ever, ever. This one sounds like a dog, maybe he’ll come back around, so be strong & get some good support. 🙂 Don’t do what I did and fall into phony pity plays for booty call, either…if he comes around to mess with your heart. Hopefully that won’t happen, but be kind to you first.
Hi, I don’t know if you spotted that Nat does offer a Guide to Stopping Obsessing (something like that) I have just purchased it after reading this blog for years and after having a call with Nat and this Guide had so much in it. I think it will stop the years of obsessing I have wasted every time I go through a break up. My latest was a 5 month relationship and here I am one year later still stalking. Even though I KNOW deep down I did not fancy him all that much! Anyway the guide is absolutely brilliant at explaining why we do it and what we can do to break the cycle of it. I do think it has worked for me. Good luck with it all.
Yes, I did spot it and bought it and carry it with me every day!!! It’s me page for page! But I’m still obsessing…I think it’s because I have PTSD, which will make getting over this azzhat that more difficult because I get flashbacks (of various conversations we’ve had) as well as triggers (if I see something that reminds me of him or us). He didn’t cause the PTSD (that was caused by my traumatic childhood) but the relationship did exacerbate it…I’m seeing a therapist and I hope to be over him SOON! It’s weird because a part of me is DEFINITELY over him…but the PTSD part of me won’t let him go – it’s like being caught between a rock and a hard place! UGH! I wish Natalie got deeper into talking about “obsession”, specifically making it STOP permanently!
I learnt (from my yoga teacher) to say, “CANCEL! CANCEL! CANCEL!” each time you ruminate to yourself. Some fishes still filter through the net but they become less. I did this with my ruminating and its working – albeit that a few thoughts still filter through that net.
Thanks for the “CANCEL! CANCEL! CANCEL!” trick. I’ve used it at least three times and I love it.
Simeone, do u regret telling the other woman? I want to tell my ex fiance so back that he won’t leave me alone. I haven’t messed w him since I found out about her. But part of me says just let it go. Cuz if I tell her and they stay together, that’s almost even worse somehow.
Nope, I have no regrets telling his baby mama at all! Best move I ever made…simply because I wasn’t allowing him to continue to get away with using me while still being with her…that anger fueled me to rat him out! In full disclosure, they stayed together and are still together. But it is what it is…I was just shocked that he still came back to me AFTER I ratted him out to his baby mama just to stroke his ego! UGH!! It’s been nearly a year with no contact only cause I had to change my number (aside from me stalking his FB page because it’s public – but I’ve recently stopped looking, I’m 3 days clean and sober of not stalking his FB page). Sadly, there’s still a part of me hoping, wishing and praying that he’ll pop back up even though if he did it would be to my detriment.
My ex has a terrible desire for us to be “friends”, perhaps so then he can kid himself, and everyone else, that he hasn’t behaved badly. I’ve blocked him on FB etc but I can’t avoid him entirely socially and I know he’ll make a play for my friendship sooner or later, probably publically to try to guilt trip me. So I’ve already come up with my answer: “You know how one of the reasons you gave for dumping me was that I didn’t have boundaries? Well now I have some, and one of them is I Don’t Have To Be Friends With People Who Lied To Me.”
This one I concur with 100%!!!!!!!!!
Here are some of the things my ex said to me at the end of a very long marriage, four kids together etc
I couldn’t give you want you want and this was the only relationship for me. I am not going to try again
(crocodile tears)
I am definitely NOT gettting involved with another woman. I need to work on myself
I am going to work on being the best friend to you ever and all the things I wasn’t in the marriage I am going to be.
Six hours later (we weren’t even officially separated yet and our kids didn’t know), he started a heavy duty emotipnally intense relationship with his seatmate on a plane even though I was meeting him 3 days later to help a daughter. He then denied it was emotionally intimate although I got sent the email copies to my work address so pretty easy to tell
I moved away 18 months ago and savoured another email on a woman he was dating a few months after I left. Recently I learned via hm breakoing contact rules that he is in a serious new relationship and was taking her around to meet our children even though they are stil adjusting to the separation. It was a “nice” way for him to break the no contact rule under the guise of being nice
It actually was heartbreaking to me to end a long term marriage where I lost so much and it was hard on our kids and grandkids. And it took me a very long time to see him as the bullshitter he is and how his words were just a form of self validation – SEE – I am such a nice guy but meant nothing. It has been a long struggle for me to understand the depth of his fakery and how it was all l for show. Even though I know all this now it still unsettles and enrages me. Run from these guys – it is a fatal flaw.
Oh man, I am so grateful for this site! Always so helpful to read other people’s similar experiences and draw strength from those who are doing well.
E, get going with no contact and stick with it! I had a very similar experience to you a year ago. My gut told me in early days that the MM I was involved with was selfish and potentially just looking for an ego stroke. He told me he loved me and wanted to be with me. Then proceed to play with my heart, drag me down and make me feel terrible before ending things to stay with his “perfect” wife and marriage. They now have a baby 🙁 It was devastating.
If I had listened to my gut and trusted the reality of the red flags that were waving. I could’ve saved myself a TON of pain, embarrassment, heartbreak and anger.
Your guy is a cheater. He also sounds like a manipulator, which rings of narcissism and a lack of empathy and compassion. Trust the message here: he does not have yours, or his wife’s, best interests at heart. Even for you as “friends”. He most likely deep down only really cares for himself, despite the surface version you are “in love” with. Keep swimming away from this mans emotional net, whether he intends to trap you or not.
As for you, I think the tone of the way you’re talking also sounds similar to me a year ago. I was in denial about my behaviour. I knew it was “wrong” to cheat and I would never do it again. But beyond the moralistic level of what it means to cheat, take a look at what it says about you and you’ll find what you need to start working on. People who cheat are narcissists. They are emotionally immature. They are selfish and reckless. I say this to you not to make you feel bad, but because I hard to face these hard realities about myself last year and it took awhile to get there. I hope the realizations and the work put in have made me a better person, but there is still more work to do. Who knows where it comes from, but I do not want to be that kind of person anymore.
I wish you luck it getting away from and staying away from this MM. Even as friends.. It is so unhealthy. Channel the energy you spend thinking about him into self improvement. And find some hobbies and other interests to occupy yourself until you’re away from this man emotionally. You will be seriously better for it.
Hugs xo Leanne
Hi, Leanne,
I do not mean to criticize your post, as it sounds like you have done an enormous amount of self-work and emotional growth and you should be commended for that. However, I respectfully disagree with your statement that, “People who cheat are narcissists.” This seems overly black and white to me. I do not argue with the concept that there is a level of selfishness involved in cheating (nor am I in any way, shape, or form trying to justify cheating or make it seem okay). However, full blown narcissism is in its true sense is a complex psychological diagnosis as well as more of a core personality trait. It’s not caused by cheating. Sometimes, people make regrettable mistakes, or they act out of selfishness, drunken-ness, or loneliness. This doesn’t necessarily automatically make them narcissists. Again, it’s not my intention to pick your post apart, or criticize you. I just think that it’s important to use psychological terms correctly and maintain some perspective.
Respectfully,
Freedom
What Nat says is quite true. It’s so hard, though, to stop caring and wondering about a past relationship that was intense, fulfilling and more. I’ve been NC for two years but now as we approach the tenth anniversary (YIKES) of our first meeting, I’m struggling again, just a bit, against nostalgia, struggling against denial (what a toughie). I must keep reminding myself that it is not my problem whether or not he regrets his choices or misses me. It is not my job to make him feel better OR to absolve him. My job and my focus must remain firmly on my life, my needs, or my feelings, and I refuse to sacrifice any of them for him for one second longer. Do I wonder or secretly hope that he’ll try to contact me one last time? I’d be lying if I said no. I’m not there yet, not at the point of indifference. that’s a bit scary, so I might go out of town during that time. Last year I actually scheduled major surgery at that time so I would be pre-occupied!!
Thanks Freedom,
I agree that people can make mistakes and act out of drunkeness, loneliness, etc. But what I meant is people who “cheat” as in have an affair.
I still believe that people who engage in an ongoing affair of any length have narcissistic tendencies and at least some sense of entitlement. I don’t mean that judgmentally, having been involved like this myself for 6 months. But I think it’s important for people to self-analyze a bit, particularly on this site which encourages doing so.
I’m no psychologist, so I didn’t mean the term “narcissist” in a clinical way. But there are tendencies that we are discussing on this blog, in others we date and in ourselves. Just worth considering our own role in the affair and why we engaged in it as we continue to work on self-improvement.
People, I really, really don’t understand your obsession with staying friends with you exes. Guilt tripping? Over people who might have cheated on you, lied to you, mistreated you etc.?????? Really, are you for real??? Even if nothing that bad happened, are you friends with anybody who wants to be your friend? Of course not. What’s wrong with saying – I wish you all the best in life but our dating/ relationship has made me realise that we don’t have much in common after all so I don’t see the point of being your friend. (I was less nice to one guy who dumped me 12 hours after making life plans involving me – I said to him that he had been good enough to be my boyfriend but not good enough to be my friend).
Also, spare 6 min to listen to this guy – he looks and talks like a used car salesman but he’s so right about being “friends” with your ex. Completely summarises my thoughts on such friendships.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo0a0hxk0Zc
Inclined to agree with Freedom. I think narcissists are more inclined to cheat, but that doesn’t mean all cheaters are narcissists and that narcissism is the only explanation for cheating.
I cheated as I had a workaholic partner who insisted on separate bedrooms because sharing a bed with me would “disturb his sleep”. Also, he had a tendency to be overly critical to me, with regards to my career.
I’d mentioned these problems to him again and again but it took my admission of serial cheating, driven by unhappiness, for my partner to actually decide to change.
I had actually decided to end the relationship when I confessed, and I basically said “I’ve cheated on you several times because I am unhappy and we need to break up because I am worried I will just do it again”. His response was to ask me to give it one last go, and, to his credit, he has made a massive effort to change what was making me unhappy.
While I was unhappy I was a magent for Mr Unavailables (hence being here at BR). I’d advise any woman tempted to cheat on her partner out of unhappiness, not to go there.
Men who want to get involved with attached women (in my experience) are doing it as they see getting you to cheat as the ultimate challenge and ego boost, they don’t want you to actually consider leaving your partner for them. They just want an ego boost from sleeping with another man’s wife or partner.
I realise now that it’s awful to try and be a branch swinger in relationships and if, worst case scenario, my partner and I don’t work out I will end it and be single before I get involved with anyone else.
The married man tries to tell me that I am being naive and unrealistic by not wanting to act on my attraction to him anymore, but I think he’s possibly pissed off because I am no longer burying my head in the sand about cheating being a sh*tty thing to do. I think he sees me as judging him, now that I am no longer prepared to play along and cheat.
(This was typed from a small phone, so apologies if there are any errors).
Sorry E, didn’t mean to make sweeping assumptions about your situation. But I do think it is first and foremost valuable to look at yourself and why you are engaging with this man, beyond just what is wrong in your marriage. He is married. He sounds like he is not really great guy (cheating, plus angry at you for not wanting to carry on). From my experience, some self-analysis beyond what was wrong in my relationship at the time of the affair was really helpful. I also felt like I was justified in engaging in it since I was unhappy and had made so many sacrifices. But on deeper analysis, I felt entitled and was willing to hurt a lot of other people because I felt I deserved the relationship.
I too was in an unhappy relationship when I cheated, so I understand it can be complex. But the energy I spent analyzing his marriage and reasons for cheating, and justifying why I had engaged in it was time that would have been way better spent focusing on working on myself and my life and continuing to move away from him and his emotional hold over me. It sounds like you are trying to do this, so good work!
I think that you need to keep moving away from this guy (emotionally, through no contact) and keep working on yourself (and your relationship, if you are so inclined) instead. Your situation sounds painful and if it was anything like my experience, will only get worse by trying to remain friends.
Get some space and distance from him and this situation through no contact. Only then can you really make a rational decision about your own life and relationship, as well as who this guy really is and what your feelings for him really are.
Priti and Nat,
The first thing I thought of as I was listening is a wise saying my mother said, “We always try to get the love from the indifferent parent.” In other words, emotionally we want to “solve” the person who doesn’t want us. Why? Was something wrong with me? Do they like me now? He’s back does that mean he sees my worth and beauty now? I think it is a pride and ego thing for you, Priti. He hurt you by not choosing you and now he is dangling his attention again. You have the solid backup of your husband but it is the “one who got away” that holds your heart (just a little) because he hurt you with rejection. Now, that inner child, longs to be unrejected.
I think you have to do a hard thing–accept that your pride is aching for an ego stroke from this guy and accept that you won’t get it. He is just going to dig the hole in your pride deeper because pretty soon you will be slipping down that slippery slope of betrayal with your husband if you pursue this. I had many of these same feeling about my charming cheating Narcissist ex who took on a younger woman mere minutes after I left him. And I still fight a pathetic urge to get his attention for how I look and how successful I now am and how he is missing out whenever I run into him in our tiny Texas town.
Honestly, I have not been able to magic-wand this longing away. My pride was hurt and it still hurts even two years later. But I have kept No Contact and gradually I have done the inner work to fill in that hole myself. All I can say is that what works for me now is to remind myself that he rejects everyone in the same way. It is his game. He is wired up to be a seducer who rejects. His payoff is my longing and pain. It is a sick game and–though I am a human with pride–I am also a woman who understands the high cost of paying any attention at all to this vampire. He wins if I think about him AT ALL. And though I will admit to a desire to reject him back, I know I never really can because it was never really me he wanted. All he wanted was my heartache and pain and the notch on his belt that said, “I’ve killed another angel.”
Wow. Excellent. Need to print out & save forever! Applies to more than just romantic relationships–& women do this, a lot, too.
Exactly. A certain type of person is just digging for a response – any response. Especially if this is someone with a knack for getting inside your head, silence may well be the best answer.
Took me a couple of years to realise that no contact is a permanent situation like an alcoholic who can’t drink ever again. These empty shells of men will tinker with our feelings forever if we let them. You can’t be “friends” they don’t want that just easy sex and ego stroke when it suits them. They are an addiction with a terrible come down once they’ve had their fix. For me I’ve learned the hard way taken a while but it’s a relief to honestly feel that I don’t care. Now I can really see him for what he is and is not. I feel nothing. The spell is broken but keeping a wall of no possible access to me keeps me safe from myself. Like all recovering addicts!
This hit me hard spot on. I had gotten to this point w my ex. I spent about 2 yrs not caring and avoiding him at all costs. Until my bf and I started having problems and I wanted out. So I let him back in. Biggest mistake ever. Now he is engaged and still won’t keave me alone. I need to remember what I did last time to get over him….
Nat thank you for this website! It has really helped me a lot the past few weeks. I have been dealing with a situation of that one that won’t go away as well…
Basically I realized… I am too nice to him. I see his insecurities and I want to build him up so that he knows how great he is. I want him to see himself they way I see him. I never have missed an opportunity to stroke his ego, because I love him and I want him to be happy and feel good about himself! And I love knowing I am the only person in his life that is doing this for him. But then reading through your website I realized…
HE DOESN’T LOVE ME. HE LOVES THE WAY I MADE HIM FEEL ABOUT HIMSELF.
I have learned so much about this guy, and I feel like he never bothered to learn anything real about me. He needs me and wants me in his life, but not because he has any intention of ever being there for me. He just wants me love and support him unconditionally. He easily apologizes not because he hurts me, but because he needs me. He always does the just enough to keep me happy and entertained in the “friendship” and thinking about the future. Honestly, I think I could probably get him if I kept it up… Just because he is so dependent on me. But he would never really love me for who I am as a person. And when I realized that, I realized that there is nothing he can say or do that will fix it. I’m not mad at him… there’s just nothing else to say.
Oh yeah had one of those! Ex Eum “moved on” with the woman he was seeing while he was seeing me and got in engaged. He called me at work after a year to let me know he was getting married and was talking to me like we were long lost friends! I didn’t care as I had “REALLY” moved on and was in another relationship, but I was struck by his delusion. I was however not surprised. He was very selfish and didn’t care about anybody else’s feelings but his own. Never asked how I was doing or if I was even involved with anybody else. Just started with the “what ifs”! He should have felt stupid as I said “congratulations, I am happy you found somebody”! LOL . I could careless! Then he had the nerve to try to see me! I was like wow only you could take something as special as getting married and ruin it. The fact that he could do that and then hang up and go on with his day like nothing happened is sad. Oh well, FLUSH!
What a D**khead! Sam!! More like something my D**khead would do!! FLUSH!
To all you ladies
Thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing your experiences. I actively found this site just over a year ago after searching the net for “how to get over an ex.” I met this man, he had no idea what he wanted, planted seeds of passion for life in him needless to say after he felt good about himself and his place in the world he found someone “better” after cheating on me. After a 3 year relationship we broke up almost 2 years now. Practiced NC except for some business we had since our business was completed went back to NC. He calls me last week wants to hang out, but not in the area where his current squize lives which happens to be where I used to live and still work. By the way when we broke up two thirds of my friends, the ones I introduced him to, friends I knew since primary school picked sides and became his friends, I have dealt with those feelings. He is originally out of town but has now settled in the surburb I grew up in and used to call home but I must play hide and seek. He wants to be friends because he cares about me and wants to look out for me. I have deleted him everywhere but he has my number and keeps popping up. It is posts and comments like these that keep me on the straight and narrow I am forever grateful to you Nat and all you ladies. Coming to the realization that true happiness can only come from me has changed my life. Thank you
Say Something,
I am disappointed I can’t attend the Saturday workshop. I hope you enjoy Nat’s workshop. Nat please do New York again soon. Smile.
MJ
MJ,
I’m packing my little bag for the day and thinking of you. I wish you could attend. And yes, of course I will be back. Not so far away, but my first time solo. I hope I don’t get lost, as I’m prone to wrong direction-taking 🙂
Say Something,
You will be fine flying solo. I so wish that I could be there.
You will be fine. I can’t wait to hear about the workshop (smile). I LOVE NYC.
Safe travels.
MJ
I’m in the vicinity (super early) and yes, I started out the wrong way! But I have coffee now.
SS,
Hi. Yay you made it. Hoping you saw the note from me below. I know the workshop will be outstanding. I’m sending Nat a request today for another NYC workshop. Smiles.
Don’t forget your positive affirmation card.
MJ
SS,
Hope the workshop was great. They failed to deliver today claiming no one could sign for package. Frown. Please let me know how the workshop went.
Safe travels.
MJ
Hi MJ,
The best part of the day was just getting to meet Natalie and a group of like-minded people. In the afternoon she did receive a note from someone so probably a follow up from you? I had lunch with someone from the session which was a bonus. Wish you could’ve made it. I brought a card for Natalie and forgot to give it to her. I’m sweating and relaxing (yes, both at the same time) in Bryant Park. I’ve definitely wandered wrong ways, but I’m going in the right direction. Heading home soon. Long day. Tired.
Say Something,
I am so proud of you. It is so good you got out. I love that park. Thanks for sharing an update about the workshop. I was hoping to get you a card. I wanted to make sure I kept my promise for your birthday.
This is the start of a great summer. Wish that I had been there to go to lunch with you. Smile. Did the workshop inspire you?
Let’s have a great summer.
Big hug.
MJ
Did you both get my emails on Saturday?
Yes! Best email ever!
Nat and Say Something,
I sent you both a card to the center in NYC where the workshop is being held. I hope both of you have a great Saturday.
SS please see Nat for your card (smiles).
MJ
I completely understand and relate to everyone’s feelings here. I’m ashamed I actually had a relapse and had Birthday sex with my ex of two years. I loved that man with all my heart, and I actually thought he’d marry me. I was doing so well with NC for almost 5 months, since I left him as he cheated on me and got the other woman pregnant!! I was devastated!! But stupid inlove, with no self esteem, even then when I knew he had impregnated this woman, I stayed with him hoping we could work around the situation. He told me he wanted to be with me and not her bla bla BS which I fell for! Ow god! Until I grew a pair and finally kicked him out of my life! Then next thing I hear she’s moved in with him! OMG I almost died! Lost sooo much weight! Had anxiety attacks!! I was basically a zombie throughout the 5 months of NC!!! But just when I was starting to see the light.. He resurfaced. It was my birthday just recently and he asked to take me out for a lil ‘harmless dinner’ I must admit I was happy to see him, I’d missed him( shaking my head..I know) then he started talking about the relationship about how he’d missed me and wasn’t happy without me and things became emotional! I was crying again! Oh God why do I keep doing this to myself!!? He apologized and I ended up giving in to his advances and we had SEX!! I felt soo vulnerable! I couldn’t stop crying all night, I was overwhelmed with emotion and all the pain came swooping back!! it was as if my mind knew this wasn’t right but my body had abandoned me! And then the next day we went out for b-fast and talking about ‘working things out’ oh so I thought… I became insecure and didn’t want him to go.. He never called afterwards. Nor see me the next day as he promised ;( next thing he texts me accusing me of calling his baby mama! (the girl who’s the reason I left) he told me she told him I called her and bragged abt our meeting! A complete LIE!!! I don’t even know how she knew but I assume she was snooping bcz he spent the night with me Omg! I’m in so much pain and right to back where I started, if only I had stayed NC!!! I feel soo humiliated and tricked, So bitter and resentful. But I’m not the first to relapse, I forgive myself for foolishly thinking we could work. I’m sorry ladies I needed to cough this out.
Dear Broken,
You are not broken – just human. Giving up an @ss clown can be as difficult as giving up smoking or drinking. Just about everyone falls off the wagon at some point trying to let go of a bad habit. The thing is, it’s your wagon. So you can get back on any time you like.
Dear Broken,
I habe been in the exact same situation….:-(
A few days after our meeting he texted me his baby mama (who tricked him into becoming pregnant…) found out about us and was giving him hell… Reality was -as I learned much later- she didn’t know anything about us. It was just him making up a story for stepping back, but with the possiblity to return as he pleases- as the victim of the “crazy” women in his life, as the victim of circumstances…. but himself “innocent”.
(Sorry, I’m not a native English speaker).
Stay strong!
Kay, thank you so much for your response a deep part of me already knows the truth. You are more than right. This is my wagon and I know, I know I need to get off it because it’s really doing no good. My sense of self has eroded, I have zero self esteem. I keep wondering why couldn’t he love me like I loved him. I’m pathetic. I know, I’m in tears as I type with a bottle of wine next to me. How could he use me like this! You don’t know how much I wish it was easier to just jump off but honestly it’s soo dam hard. I was so invested, I used to be so confident prior to meeting him. I’m hurting a lot. I suppose a huge part of me still stuck on the hope that things could still work out but it won’t. I have reblocked him from all social media. Slowly, I’ll get there hopefully.
Mary73, thank you for your response. I’m sorry you went through the same thing. It’s horrible A part of me feels less stupid knowing, knowing I’m not alone(don’t mean this in a bad way) yup! I also think he lied about his baby mama knowing just to back away from me. Dam! I’d like to know how you got over him, how you moved on if you have. Please. I’d really appreciate just knowing how you did, if you have because I’m going through hell right now. I’m so broken I don’t think I’ll ever find love..and though breaks my already broken heart.
Thank you.
Thank you both ladies and everyone for sharing.
Hello Broken,
I really wish I could give you some advice, but I’m stuck in my emotions myself….
Well, I read a lot- like Natalies wonderful blog here!
And perhaps I could recommand you a book called Exaholics, which explains pretty good the biochemical reasons for staying so attached and which takes a little of the pressure for feeling guity about the way one is feeling (even if the whole situation is a toxic mess). Nevertheless I haven’t found a solution for myself to once and forever break free and let go. I feel ashamed to admit this, because by now I think I get my situation completely intellectually…. but not with my heart….
I wish I could be a better help, really! Stay strong!
Espresso,
My situation is a whole lot like yours, and its so hard to come to grips with the loss of a long term marriage and such and then even the price it was of cutting out of it. You question your sanity in it and a bit out of it too. Time has been the sanity that showed the depth of his frosted flakiness and I have watched him make himself look crazier than the mad hatter with all the women and drama. This was a family man who was never a womanizer and persona of ” Father knows best’ by the way.
I know I helped direct that image through. However, its been a long sad journey of him parent alienating me , not being successful at it though, but making our kids lives complete of such mind fuckery that you all would think I am actually making the stuff up that he has done. We were so well respected and looked up to has the couple who had it all before I made him leave. Me and the kids did not think anyone would believe us of how he actually was with us at home.
I can relate to the loss you feel for real, but do not get stuck there and do not allow others to make you doubt your sanity. Loss is neccessary and welcome it. Sad, when you see real families with their kids and grand kids , but, most likely they are not in a soul contract and at a huge loss of their selves either. Feel bad for the loss of yourself for that time of engaging with this assclown for all that time. I can tell from your post you may be stuck there a bit and I’ve never actually commented on a post on this site either, but your comment really hit me.
I feel your pain and I have every book Natalie has written and bought a few of her courses. This site has actually been a life saver for me and Natalie’s work is so very important. Trust the universe! When you can get yourself out of that ruminating stage and it is so very difficult with all the years you spent “earning” that whole life and discover that love is not earned, and people that are meant to be in your life will be!!
Stay the course and quit looking back. I know it can be difficult but, when you get back to you, that bad ass you, with out any apologies for being that awesome you, then you have arrived!!
I’m in a relationship where’s there’s no intimacy. “I love you” these are the words he never came to say. He just comes kisses me and leaves. Yes I admit that I also have to take part in our relationship but I’ve done that several times thinking that maybe he will that I care but no he keeps on acting as if he doesn’t care. I know that the relationship is still new but new relationships are the one’s that has more intimacy! But this seems to be going nowhere… Yes I understand that we were friends before we engaged into a relationship but I thought its the best foundation for our relationship… I feel insecure sometimes..I ask myself questions with no answers..”Does he cheat on me,does he love me or maybe he feels sorry for me cause he knows that I’ve been in an abusive relationship in the past” well I don’t know what to think … I love him so much to let him go…and again staying in this relationship is hurting me. I think I should put my happiness first focus on making myself happy rather than pleasing other people but then I think that’s very selfish of me. I don’t know what to do. I wish he can tell me how much I mean to him.
I think you might be mixing up actions and feelings. We can never really know a person’s feelings – they might tell us, but if we are insecure or they are inauthentic, we will not believe them. But actions are more believable – is he kind, considerate, consistent, calls when he says, interested in you (listens, wants to talk, cares about your choices) etc. You say he ‘acts as if he doesn’t care’ – what does this mean exactly, can you tell us any behaviors which have led you to believe this? And if your really believe this, why are you with him?
When it comes to feelings we can only know your own. You don’t say anything about what it feels to be with him – is it fun, are you happy, do you feel like yourself, do you enjoy it.
If its a new relationship, perhaps you are fast-forwarding by expecting ‘I love you’.
Finally, if you were in an abusive relationship before, you might want to consider therapy to figure out how to maintain healthy boundaries in relationships and to have FUN, a good time, enjoy life. Your relationship does not sound enjoyable – it sounds like dull work.
Jessica,
There’s absolutely nothing selfish about focusing on yourself. Infact since you were in an abusive relationship, taking care of yourself is exactly what you need to do. Suki has a point, it’ll help you establish healthy boundaries. I’m sure your sense of self must’ve eroded from that abusive, toxic relationship with your ex. As a result you may be feeling a bit bruised perhaps longing for some assurance and security, you might have expected your boyfriend to love you in a certain way and considerably mend the broken pieces of heart from your past because after all he knows your history, which is understandable. You are feeling vulnerable right now because the expectations you had are not being met and you’re not getting the fulfillment you were hoping to get, especially since you had a friendship with this man before getting into a relationship with him. You need to take charge, talk to him about how you’re feeling and let him know what your expectations are. If all else fail then GIVE YOURSELF the love that seems to be lacking in your relationship. Sometimes life forces us to walk away from people/situations that sabotage our self esteem, peace of mind and self worth. Ultimately if the cons outweigh the pros then, as much as you love him, you need to also LOVE YOU enough to let go. If he wants you in his life he will take note of your concerns, up his game and give the love you deserve.
Jessica, you said “I think I should put my happiness first focus on making myself happy rather than pleasing other people but then I think that’s very selfish of me.”
I hope you will stay at BR and read many posts, on many subjects, because my time here has taught me that whenever a thought like the one you expressed enters my mind, I mean, in the *instance* when I start mulling over whether I should consider someone else’s comfort over mine, that is when I MOST need to take care of myself, take hold of the myself, and do what is in MY best interest.
I’m not saying we need to go around acting like entitled A-holes. But when a thought like yours enters one’s mind, it is usually a response to an internal boundary being ignored by you because you want to squelch something you need in order to satisfy what someone else is asking of you.
In your case, you have a need to hear loving words, and see loving actions. You’re not sure he thinks of you in the way you want and you don’t need to apologize for needing more evidence of his care.
Right now he is like a pair of shoes that don’t fit well. It is OK to put him back on the shelf. He is not your last chance at happiness. I see it as a positive step for you that you have recognized you are not getting what you want from this union and you are questioning it’s worth to you. Don’t be sad.
You say you love him so much, but sometimes we fall in love with the first person who shows even a hint of kindness to us, especially when for so long life has not given you someone to love who loves you back. You are aching to love someone, and this “friend” was there. You don’t have to turn him into your rescuer. I agree with Sandi that a break from romance could help. If this man is the one, he’ll hang around and be your friend – without benefits (if it’s gone that far).
I’m running into a helluva time with men I allow to waste my time in the guise of “friendship” because I’m lonely. I’m 31 and have never had a respectful boyfriend. Anyhow, during the times I’m single I allow myself to be charmed by these platonic dalliances: A guy who just wants to use me for sex (haven’t allowed that thank god), a man who wants loads of ego stroking while he lives with his ex girlfriend, and another who has a Facebook messenger harem. I see nice seeming men and their happy girlfriends quite often but that isn’t my situation.
I was recounting this to my therapist the other day and she made the point that I just might meet someone if I wasn’t always with someone I wasn’t with.
I have found a plethora of men who love love love the idea of being best friends with “casual sex”. It’s such a joke really. They just waste our time while the women with self-esteem get the actual boyfriends/relationships with men who can actually cough them up.
Oy vey
platonic = of friendship, not sexual.
So a platonic dalliance = oxymoron.
Friends with casual sex = fwb? = not platonic.
I think these people are not your friends. They sound self absorbed and shifty and dodgy. I do agree with you that the women with self esteem and the men interested in relationships found each other early on – the rest of us muddle along as best we can.
Suki,
Dalliance: 1) A casual romantic OR sexual relationship
2) Brief or casual involvement with something
(Source New Oxford American Dictionary).
Platonic dalliance is not an oxymoron.
But that really wasn’t my point. My point was that I was gaining self-awareness to the pattern that I allow myself to be distracted by non-sexual encounters (I’ve consistently said no to a friend’s advances) instead of pursuing situations in which I get an all around fulfilling sexual, respectful, and mutual, monogamous committed relationship with a good person who wants the same with me.
Wowwww, thanks all for your sharings & experiences, Nat – u rock tks for this site 🙂
Been so good to read all the comments but I’m still struggling to understand what my ex eum actually is trying to achieve. In short after 6 toxic years together he just flew to the other end of the country without a word, ignored any contact for nearly a year, has got back together with a schooldays GF and living very happily (only aware of any of this from FB stalking which I have now stopped – was my only way of trying g to find out WHY… which I never have) out of the blue he just sent me a selfie photo. No message. What is that all about?? It’s driving me insane trying to work out what he is doing? He is very aware that he completely destroyed me by how he left.
Hi Confused, I hear your frustration and sadness. It can be crazymaking torture to figure out why people behave the way they do and it can keep you stuck. I’ve spent a lot of time there. Every second you choose to focus on him you are losing you and your life, those seconds add up, to years sometimes. He’s not able to give you what you need (what are your needs? something to think about). It’s not your fault (or his).
Sometimes the hardest thing to do is just to face that sadness and disappointment and accept reality. Surrender the need for it (them) to be different and to know why. He probably doesn’t know why either, it’s just who he is.
It may also be helpful for you to find something else to focus on, a new hobby, looking for a new job (if that’s something you’ve been wanting to do), making new friends, starting that home project you’ve been wanting to do, etc… Doing those things also help to build your self-esteem back up.
If you’re interested in insights as to your patterns and what some characteristics of unhealthy people are, the book Safe People by Cloud & Townsend may offer insights.
I hope this helps. Take good care of you.
Hi Veracity. Thanks so much for your comments. I am finally starting to move forward and leave this behind. I’ve joined some groups and really feel I had put this behind me when suddenly yesterday I got that photo he sent of himself! No message, nothing and I’m just struggling to see why do that? What’s he trying g to achieve? Will check out he book too
Hi Confused. A selfie from a selfish person who wants to hurt you? Punish you? See if you’re still hanging on? An ego stroke? Whatever his reason, it’s not in YOUR best interest, that I’m sure of. Some people are selfish and cruel. To be open to his cruelty in any way is a form of self abuse.
Has a part of you been secretly (or not so secretly) been hoping he would contact you? I ask that because you have left the lines of communication open. I’d be curious as to why. You might be amazed at what you discover and it could be exactly what you need to move forward and heal.
Thanx for this.
I left an abusive relationship a year a a half ago and went NC (blocked all social media, phone, etc). The ex was very persistent for the first few months and I went out of my way to ensure there was not even something that the ex might interprete as a “smoke signal” on my part. He seemed to go silent for about a year but now I’m getting random texts and calls from numbers I don’t recognize. I’m not sure if it’s taken him this long to realize he’s been blocked or if he’s just starting a new harassment campaign but I’m starting to wonder if he will ever go away.
Reading your article has made me see that he is likely just trying to continue hurting me and ensure he is not forgotten. It has given me new strength to keep on keeping on and not let the whole “why is he doing this?” get to me.