Deciding that we’re going to be or do something that basically amounts to us moving on from a space where we’ve been stuck in a cycle of thinking, feeling and acting in a particular way, sometimes leads to the assumption that the cycle will end automatically. We might spend months suffering over our ex and finally decide that we have to try to move forward. It may be that clashing with a loved one triggered months of rumination. Thoughts and feelings that we associate with The Time Before We Decided To Move On, can lead to us feeling confused and frustrated. We doubt our decision or doubt our ability to move on. We wonder, Is the fact that I’m thinking about him/her/the situation a sign that I’m not ready to move on?
In short, the answer is NO.
Imagine that last July, you finally ended your relationship after a year of going back and forth. During the relationship you overfunctioned to compensate, not just for where they weren’t showing up but also for your own underlying feelings of low self-worth. Maybe you reasoned that if you sacrificed you for the relationship, that they’d see that you were worth committing to. You’re ready to move on from trying at this relationship.
After an initial period of feeling almost on a bit of a high for having ended the relationship and beginning No Contact, the loss of the relationship starts to set in. You attempt dating but it doesn’t obliterate hurt and loss so feelings of inadequacy resurface. You fear that you’re never going to find The One. Maybe you hear that your ex is already seemingly moving on with someone else.
Like anyone who overcompensates during a relationship, you then end up feeling entirely to blame for why it didn’t work out. It doesn’t seem fair that they’ve moved on so quickly. How dare they replace me? You keep retracing your steps and trying to work out where you made ‘one false move’. Thinking about the relationship reminds you of other painful experiences and judgments. In your fantasy, it’s just you that they were this way with. You convince you that the new person is getting everything that you should have got.
Finally, you get to January of this year and you’re like, Enough. You’ve begun to acclimatise to the truth of the relationship. There’s a genuine need and desire to start rebuilding your life. You’re ready to take the focus off them and bring it back to you. You’re ready to move on.
I get that you want to move on (and you will) but it’s unrealistic to build a habit over a period of six months and to then expect it to vanish overnight because you’re ready to move on.
Feelings, thoughts, places, actions and, yes, other habits, are associated with this person.
If they were your first thought every day, they still will be for a while until you intervene on that habit of thinking. If you’ve just spent six months thinking about them in the shower, over breakfast, during meetings, while hanging out with friends, and you’ve pretty much diverted to them each time you’ve wanted to check out from life, that’s a habit.
No, it’s not going to take you six months to replace those thoughts but after defaulting to thinking and obsessing about this person morning, noon and night and building associations around that, it’s what your mind now thinks you’re supposed to do. Until you intervene and create new habits, it will continue to do so.
If we’ve spent weeks, months or even years responding with certain feelings and thoughts, it’s unrealistic to assume they’ll fade away of their own accord. You have to break the habit.
Keep in mind, as well, that the thoughts and feelings might be outdated. They might not represent who you are at this point in time — you just might be in the habit of having those thoughts and feelings linked with aspects of your day.
Before you convince you that thinking about them (or a situation) again despite your desire to move forward means that you’re not ready, halt. What’s the habit that you’ve created around this person or situation? Gather some intel over the course of a few days or a week. When you think about them (or the situation) where are you? What are you doing? What were you feeling and thinking? Who else is there? Break it down. You’ll spot opportunities to adjust this no longer desired routine plus you can intervene on habitual thoughts and feelings. You can move you on to another topic and jump off of that train of thought.
We like the familiar, even when it’s uncomfortable, but we are adaptable and a habit of thinking can be replaced by another one when we become more conscious, aware and present.
Your thoughts?
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Nat you are truly spookily and wonderfully telepathic!!! How do you do it? Every time I get into one of my self-doubt ‘oh dear what am I doing’ moments there you are snapping me out of fantasyland. I woke up really early this morning because I had a dream of the now on now off, friends but not really mind-screwer just as I finished almost three months of NC. And yes everyday as a habit I just can’t help thinking of what could’ve been and over analysing points around perhaps that ‘one false move’. Not that I miss anything about the situation when I actually think about what led me to NC in the first place. But then your post rang so true. It is indeed a habit and it is indeed something I do when I want to ‘check out from life’. Brilliant post and insane timing – as always!
I’ve never thought about it in that way – checking out of life – but it’s so true. You are important and your life does have to go on. And the last person it should stop for is someone who treated you terribly.
I’ve been recognising this for a while, that I used to think about him first in the morning when taking a shower… and at work I used to text him on my breaks in the kitchen at work. My life has long since moved on, but I go to those places and his name just pops into my head and it used to concern me, until I realised I’d got into a thought habit which was continuing to play itself out. The more drama I felt over it, with internal conflict and criticism, the more I was feeding it. I’m now just changing my habits around so that I don’t get the same triggers. He served no good purpose in my life and I choose life, rather than the static bind he wanted me in.
Emma- I understand exactly what you are saying! It’s tough to go places or see something on TV that we used to enjoy and not think of him. Mine was narcissistic and such an EU waste of time. I still find myself having trouble not texting him when I see something that I know would make him laugh. I stop though : I know he won’t text me UnLESS he wants something. I’m happier without him using me and draining me of my self confidence.
Thank you Natalie! I hadn’t considered that this is why I’m constantly thinking about her. What makes my situation even more pathetic is that we never had a relationship but I unwisely fell for her. I’m slowly getting over her and I’ve not contacted her since Christmas and vice versa. But I’ve gone through the same feelings and thoughts you’ve described. But I’ve let go.
This resonates with me as this has been going on for (gulp) FOUR YEARS. No wonder I’m in a habit. I feel hopeless so much of the time. I am not really sure how to break that habit now that it is identified. I do feel a sense of relief in naming the problem- I have conditioned myself into these cyclical thoughts. I am just not fully sure how to “adjust this no longer desired routine” or “intervene on habitual thoughts and feelings”… what are some practical tips for getting out of this headspace?
Read cognitive behavioral therapy for dummies. Don’t be turned off by the name it’s an excellent and practical book to dea with anxiety and negative thoughts and obsessive thinking. It helps you identify your trigger and to figure out how to replace your negative and irrational thoughts with more rational ones. It is very practical and activity oriented.
I also suggest reading a lot of BR and also people like Carolyn Hax. At one point I had read a lot of the good agony aunt columns. The old dear prudence was also really good. The point is that they respond to common social questions about bfs and family and friends and they provide a different perspective than that of people pleasing or co dependency or grin and bear it. So it’s just useful to see a lot of examples of social life where people are being advised to choose more healthy patterns. The point is that very often due to your own thinking or socialization or anxiety you cannot generate any alternative actions or thoughts. reading these things and practicing what they tell you helps generate those alternatives and to give you more tools to articulate your own feelings and your own power.
Another good book Brene Brown. There’s also a nice article by the guy that does the blog zenhabits on what a whole hearted relationship looks like. Looking back on my advice I guess what I’m saying is also – don’t just read about breakups and narcissistic personality, read from books that stress authentic living and owning your own feelings and taking responsibility for your own happiness. Give it a few months at least of seriously pursuing this way of being and it will stick. Rather see this as a life long quest for changing old patterns
Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I’ve pruchased a few of Brene Brown’s books and she resonates with me, loving your other suggestions also. I appreciate the compassion in this space! Thank you. 🙂
Hey Sarah, (that’s my bff’s name,)
It’s been over 4 years since I separated from my ex, and 2 since we officially divorced, but we still coparent; so I can empathize with your feelings and situation.
I have found, that the best way to break this pattern is to literally break your routine or do something drastic or life-changing if possible-even going on vacation, by yourself, can be refreshing. Second, ground yourself to a therapeutic hobby or a long-term goal that you would like to accomplish. Third, nurture your strong platonic relationships and surround yourself with friends that are good for you. Perhaps even adopt a pet, of you haven’t already or have the means to. Fourth, but actually first-emphasis on self-care: eating better, sunshine and exercise especially, getting good sleep, spending time alone in nature.
I was lucky enough to have food friends who were willing to support me in my grief, yet after a time, I realized I didn’t have to keep bitching about my ex or rehashing because it just kept the energy alive and it stayed the center focus of my life. This was the hardest thing for me, I think. It’s still hard.
I hope that helps. Best wishes in your healing journey. 🙂
I’m over my ex, but I know I was only supply for her, because she’s a narcissist. They never change and there is no cure.
Yet a lot of things still remind me of her, and pausing to think about her is a habit that’s gradually thinning out. When a memory pops up say to myself, “Yeah, I really loved her but there was no there there, remember?” Then I say yes, and I move on with my day.
Other related habits I am having trouble with are: not only my belief that I will never love again, but because I isolated when I was with her, I lost most of my friends. After all of her gas-lighting, betrayal and all the other typical NPD BS, my mind is still mush and I can’t seem to make or hold onto new friends, and rekindling old friendships is often like trying to piss up a rope.
I’ve decided to just sit with these habits and assume they will start to fade like the memories.
I know the experience has made me a better person, but that’s something one has to show, not tell, and that takes time.
Hi Karen! I’m going through the same. I worry that if I put myself out there the next guy will be a narcissist and EU.. I don’t know if I can handle that again! Mine still tries to wiggle his way back in but only after ignoring me on purpose to torture me. I’m not interested in those games anymore.
He started out being very attentive and wanted to see me a lot but after he realized I wasn’t a shiny new toy anymore he wandered. I later found out he had a GF while he was trying to lure me in! I was gob smacked! Everything he did with his gaslighting and mind games broke me. It’s very tough to not text him now because I still feel like he’s a drug — I know he’s no good for me, and I cannot change him but it’s tough to accept. Never will I have closure and I’m working on that as well.
Karen I hope you find someone who truly loves you and you are happy. We all deserve that:)
Dear commentators,
Please be kind on yourselves! I’m not playing top trumps, but an old crush has dominated my life, thoughts, routine 21,yes 21 years since I last saw him.
He was a charming player but I kidded myself he was the lost love of my life. He wasn’t. He was a fond memory who I self soothed out of HABIT.
I’m working with an excellent therapist and it is hard work, but the future looks very bright.
If I can do this aged 60, trust me you all can.Natalie is a treasure trove of insight. Trust and use her insight.
Yours,
Living and learning
This is my first time commenting. I discovered BR the last week of December. Natalie, I cannot thank you enough for the incredible wisdom! You have helped me regain my sanity. To think that, only last November, I still wished the AC’s wife would divorce him (because he would never have the courage to give up the stability (financial and social) and built-in household services that she provides). Mind you, I wish her (and my husband) no harm and, even though neither of them know about the affair (it’s been over for about a year), I feel very bad about what happened behind their backs. Yes, I am not only one of the last group that sometimes receive judgement on this site (the OW), I am also a married woman. Even though my husband abandoned me with work, TV, legal narcotics, and video games, and that neglect made me easy prey for the predator narcissist, I don’t blame my husband. I blame myself for allowing it all to happen.
In early December, I had been in contact with the AC again, until the stupid empty texts about the weather, etc. bored me so much that I stopped. On Christmas Day, he, of course, lazy-texted with “Merry Christmas.” Before I could think, I texted something inane back. That week I discovered BR. I had been reading “the affair is over, but I still miss him” type forums with people whining about how much they missed the other person, and lots of commiseration, but no solutions. In one of those posts, I saw the word “limerence,” and that set me off down another rabbit hole. I started to regain my sanity reading about limerence (NOTE TO NATALIE: HAVE YOU WRITTEN ABOUT THIS TERM–IT MAY BE HELPFUL TO FOLKS), and in one post, I saw someone talking about “permanent no contact.” For some reason, that intrigued me, so I did another search and came across BR. Sanity *and* clarity! OMG! On New Years, just shortly after midnight, I received (wait for it…) a text that said “Happy New Year.” In that week, I’d learned a lot and chose to delete the text. I’ve also deleted two texts and an email since then (40 days NC!) . His “concern” for me only means that he needs a ping of dopamine! TBH, admittedly, I still like my ping of dopamine, which is why I haven’t yet blocked his phone (I’ve blocked and unblocked it more times than I can count). I still stalk his Twitter account, but find it more and more boring and unimaginative–just like his lazy communication–in fact, one of his texts was a re-tweet from his Twitter account! Obviously, I have a way to go, but in time, I will block the phone and lay off the Twitter. I no longer want his wife to divorce him, but feel sorry for her because (in the words of Karen, I believe), he’s a classic narcissist AC and she’s a doormat.
In time, too, I will stop thinking so much about him. I’m already doing it less and less–thanks to this amazing site, Natalie and all the other people putting their hearts out there. <3
I am having such a hard time letting go of an off/on, up/ down relationship that has lasted 7 years. There have been these magic moments and what seemed like intense attraction and love but it is clouded by cheating and lies The extent of it more than I want to admit. The assclown always comes back with this humble loving plea as if I was the wrongdoer. I kept readily taking him back hoping he was actually the person he purported to be but I don’t trust him and never feel that he is sincere in all of this. I feel damned if I do and damned if I don’t. I have never been able to fully make up with him because of his past deceitfulness, I hate to end it with him. He really opened up my world in some ways and some of our times together were lovely. I hate losing him. A part of me feels that I will never have a another relationship and that it’s him or nothing. This feeling is very overwhelming and the sadness is intense.
I share your pain, though my relationship, if you can call it that lasted much less than 7 years. What I struggle with accepting is that she’s an amazing friend and daughter/sister, but I, as someone who was close to her in a different way, was on the receiving end of the lies and shadiness. I can’t comprehend how people can be so selective. And I also take that as a sign that she never cared about me and surely you wouldn’t treat someone you love with such disdain? Still makes me very sad
So dead-on Nat. I had this realization a month ago. It’s just been a pattern for so long. I’m really not too bothered by the ex’s relationship affair still lasting, or my single life-which has been pretty peaceful and cush. The synapses in my brain are just used to following the old path of grieving over my ex first thing in the a.m. and right before bed; unless I make a conscious not to give into it and focus my energies elsewhere. Yoga and meditation has been my rock for the passed two years, and my platonic relationships have improved. I’ve been able to immerse myself fully into opportunities and experiences, without the distraction of heartbreak hangover or wrapping my identity in my divorce or trying to impress some unavailable. Looking at my patterns objectively with biological logic has helped me to break through the really tough emotional triggers and compulsions. Some days it’s a struggle, but organically, the days keep getting better.
EMC,
I am exactly where you are at. It’s been 2 years since the relationship ended. I’ve dedicated that time looking introspectively to uncover my relationship habits and patterns. I’m in such a better place emotionally, physically, and mentally. I am grounded, balanced, and engaging in all aspects of my life. I feel confident I will not enter into another EU relationship again. But thoughts still linger. I acknowledge the thoughts when they occur and try to associate circumstances for these thoughts. Sometimes it is just habit and sometimes (as an above commenter noted) it’s to “check out of life.” If the thoughts start to spiral too much, I will sometimes say out loud, “Stop with the thoughts” and then I take a deep breath and recenter myself. It’s not perfection, but a work in progress.
A friend of mine commented to me recently, “Maybe you neeed to create new memories to replace the old ones.” I’ve been giving this some thought as I have just newly entered the dating scene again. I am much more discerning with the online dating pool. It’s been amazing to be able to “read between the lines” with some profiles. But I do wonder if her comment about replacing memories has some merit. When the last memories a person has is of a toxic, dysfunctional relationship with a narcissisticly-inclinded EU who also has sociopathic traits, those are the last memories of a relationship. The hope is to enter a mutually, co-piloted relationship that is built on love, care, trust, and respect. When that occurs, I would hope those old memories are replaced. Just some thoughts.
Hello to all on this journey of self awareness,
I am 2 years out of a long, drawn out, on again, off again, toxic relationship that lasted decades. We broke up many times, usually with me walking away, holding on to the last little bit of my dignity and sanity. The most recent breakup, almost 2 years ago was different. I had purposely worked through the journey, conscience and aware, so whether it ended or continued, I was at peace with my decision. It was difficult but necessary so see myself in the midst what was happening, how I was participating in the drama. So when he left, with me tossing his stuff into piles to hurry up the process (he was moving too slow and I feel he didn’t believe I would let him go), I was not hysterical or a crying mess rolling around on the floor in a pool of my tears or anchored around his leg begging him to stay. Been there, done that. Geesh!
Something I have never experienced before started to happen after he left. I had to not only contend with my thoughts, feelings and habits, but also the psychic/energetic connection which is not often acknowledged or talked about that can happen between some narcissists and codependent/empaths. Almost immediately, he showed up in my dreams or his energy would jump out at me. I am a woo-woo, empath, intuitive who is also left brained and very logical. Initially when he showed up in my dreams, I was so angry/fearful that I would wake myself up out of the dream and tell him to leave me alone. One day when at a gas station, I looked across and a guy was getting out of his car and my ex’s energy jumped out at me, to the point that I thought it was him. It was so startling that I gasped in fear and had to take a second look and calm myself down. Thank GOD for being in therapy, but I feel my poor therapist thought I was crazy and was just obsessing over him and honestly, so did I. I was more than willing to acknowledge that I was working through the trauma of the relationshit so I dedicated myself to working through my baggage full out, as I did not want to go down this road ever again. Thankfully, I also have a spiritual mentor, who understands the energetic side, who assured me that what I was experiencing was real and to work on how it disrupted my peace and assert at taking my power back.
Fast forward to late last year and the psychic happenings were occurring so frequently, that I decided to reach out to a perfect stranger who does tarot card readings on YouTube. This woman didn’t know me from an unlabeled can of paint. I told her we broke up and I was heavily experiencing his energy, our names and birth dates and that I did not want him back–that’s it. Well, when I received the video reading back, my jaw nearly hit the floor. She talked about specific things that had happened in our relationship, his plans on returning and our psychic/energetic connection among others things. WTF! I couldn’t wait to go into my therapist’s office and show her the video. Now, she finally understood what I was experiencing and began to take it seriously. Thank God that my therapist is also woo woo but never had a client as woo woo as me, lol. Even though some of my friends were experiencing some of the same things, they initially poo pooed what I was experiencing and after the video, had to rethink that I was just obsessing or working through mental/emotional trauma. Ultimately, I had to explore why I needed anyone’s (therapist and friends included) validation for my feelings and experiences. Standing in my truth, not discounting myself as crazy or obsessive, knowing what was happening even though I didn’t fully understand, allowed me to take my energetic power back.
I can now tell when it is my thought or it is coming from outside of me. When it is within me, I can retrace the thoughts that lead to me thinking about him. And then I work through the feeling that is ultimately trying to have a voice, whether it is fear, loneliness, powerlessness, etc. then I work on those feelings and resolve to heal them. Acknowledging, sitting with and working through my core issues allows me not to make contact with him. When it is coming from an outside energetic place, a thought may just pop up and there is no logical reason for it to be there. Then I can say, ‘You are a liar and a cheater and I am done.’ I check with myself to see how I am feeling and make sure I stay glued in the reality of who he is and what we had and don’t give way to nostalgia or fantasy thinking. I also choose to stop bringing myself out of dreams with him, so that I can see what was happening and how I feel. Many times in my dreams, he would be in some sort of trouble (big surprise there) and I would feel the need to help him (another big shocker for a codependent, empath). Those feelings of wanting to help, have turned to allowing myself to see the mess he has created and allowing him to be responsible for the outcome. Maybe some day I can have compassion for him.
Now I barely remember dreams that involve him. The impact of these interactions used to feel intrusive. Now I am only slightly annoyed, like shooing off a fly that is buzzing around me. Thinking about him does not mean I want to get back with him or I haven’t moved on, nor does experiencing an energetic connection mean that our connection is special/magical and we need to get back together. We are all energy and energy manifests in different ways. I am just more attuned to this energy. I now work on the impact of the energetic and emotional connections and maintaining my power and peace.
Much love, light and blessings to you all.
May you walk in your truth and light, always…
Just need a space to talk about this, to clear my head about it. After a long time I started dating someone. He is divorced and shares custody, it was a messy divorce that happened a long time ago, but the ex recently split up with her partner, and I wonder if their family is trying to find a new pattern of being as she is now back in his life in a more active way than before. I am not sure at what point in their family life have I made an appearance.
We are not going public, and this is my choice – because we work together. Oh seeing this all written down is not fun!! It seems very complicated – I dont see a lot of red flags because the flags are so out there (working together, co-parenting) that it somehow feels more comfortable than my exes who were hiding things. I prefer a real ex wife than an ex gf that someone is still pining over and wont’ confess to. Its very early days, he stays in touch, I stay in touch, during the week (maybe a text or two a day, no phone calls), we meet once a week at least, and usually for a good chunk of time, e.g. going out to a movie, getting dinner and then maybe coming back to my place.
So he is not hustling me for time or managing down expectations about time spent, although a lot of our meeting is on his schedule because he is an active co-parent. It does feel like he is investing emotion into it, and I’m quite cautious so its not like the pace is too slow for me. I worry more about the fact that his life is so much more complicated and also fuller than mine – he could very easily be integrated into my life, I have no exes in my life (NC), no children and I dont have family here. I dont know how I will integrate into his. We enjoy our time together, and I like being with him. Its only month 3 so I am reluctant to have any serious conversations beyond what we have done already – I dont know if I see this going long term so I dont want to have the ‘talk’ before I know what I want. But it feels heavy – when I am with him I am happy but when I think about it I feel weighed down. And I am an anxious person. I wonder if this relationship is really a way to find myself rather than anything about him. Heres what I am planning – do what I am doing for a few more weeks and then have a conversation to see where this could go. But really I need to decide if I want to invest more or not. Any thoughts on the early ambiguous parts of relationships are most welcome.
lukewarmlife–
I think you are right in taking it slow and being cautious. But realize that red flags are red flags–just because they are “out there” doesn’t diminish them. And an ex-wife (with whom he shares a child) is no “less” than an ex-girlfriend–in fact, she’s “more,” and you are probably only hearing about the tip of the iceberg of what is going on in his “fuller” life.
I would suggest listening very carefully to the things he says (i.e., like if he says he’s not available to spend more time with you because of the co-parenting thing, he’s too busy, not ready, etc). Have a contingency plan on how you’ll handle things at work if this doesn’t work out.
At some point, you will probably want to spend more than a couple hours a week together. If he can’t give more than that, you will know that you are taking a back seat to his ex, his child and everything else he’s got going on. Make a fuller life for yourself NOW. Not only will it make you more attractive to him, but will keep you occupied and happy should you decide to move on.
Best of luck to you!
You’re seriously overthinking this. No relationship can survive this level of scrutiny. Take a deep breath and a step back and stop trying to figure out and control everything. You are creating a lot of your own angst and drama by analyzing every aspect of the relationship. If you aren’t that in to him, that’s okay. You don’t need to justify your feelings to anyone, including yourself. If you’re fine with how things are going, you don’t need to justify that either. Don’t make it an issue that he has kids just because you heard somewhere that it should be an issue.
And your decision to not go public is a major red flag. Fix your own issues before worrying about his. Secret relationships are always a bad idea. If it’s too awkward to tell them you’re dating after three months, it’s going to get even more awkward the more time that passes. Ask yourself why you are keeping things secret. That answer may be all you need.
thanks for your tough love comment. I am indeed seriously overthinking it. I over-think. Thats what I do. Youre right relationships cannot survive so much scrutiny – but I think its more that my own peace of mind cannot survive it. I am not keeping it secret from friends or family – just not out at work. We dont work in the same part of the company so we see each other rarely at work and we dont work on the same projects. Keeping it private was something I wanted to start with, and now I dont how I feel about it — partly because going public will be a decision point and I do feel we might be coming up to a decision point anyway.
I also appreciate your comment that I need to listen to what I do want. I like him, his having kids is not a problem to me. I think the relationship brings out a lot of anxieties – of being rejected, of feeling loss, of not having control etc. Overthinking is an attempt to have control, and its not doing me any good.
Maybe not…but not listening to your gut instinct is worse.
Let it unfold and have your poker face practiced if those red flags start appearing.
Enjoy life…because trust in yourself to recognise your feelings, those signs and when to bail when shit floats to the top is all you really need.
You got this.
Hello Natalie: The no-contact rule was extremely helpful in helping me get rid of someone and I did tell them not to. They did about once a year through social media (I then blocked them). I knew it was not out of love but for their game. I’m a sane and logical woman, but yet their ghost still lingered. In every relationship after him, guys always felt like they never had all of me, and I hated that!
After 6 years and the demise of a relationship, I got back in touch with the no-contactee very briefly. I was amazed to see that everything I felt in the relationship came back to me in a short amount of time: lovely passion, affection and connection… at their whim! I soon decided, after he seemed to ghost me (he always came back months later), to reinstate the no-contact rule. No, I didn’t tell them. I was always transparent with how I felt, but I took the advice of a seasoned lawyer friend who told me I never had to explain myself to anyone if they didn’t bother to listen and consider.
I think that when I did the no-contact the first time, I did it out of a space of fear, anger, and disappointment. In this iteration, I wanted the action to be done much more out of self-love and a wish to be free and love someone else fully! The first no-contact span was almost 6 years, and now I hope this time it will stay in place!
This article really resonated with me – I am still going over things in my
mind that happened almost a year ago
My ex finished with me last year after 3 years where I basically let him
use me while he was living in my city to do a PhD. I thought he was a nice
safe and available man – or that is what I told myself. I was going to do
better with this relationship and not choose to be with someone I had to
chase. I’ve previously been with every type of Mr Unavailable under the sun
– and each time I think ‘I’ve done better this time, this one is different’
to come out with the same outcome
I actually split with him after 6 months as I realised that he couldn’t
give me what I wanted but them he wanted me back and I went thinking that
things would be better now that he wanted me. This was not the case as I
just lowered my boundaries as I felt safer (and because he felt that he was
on trial all the time)
For quite a while I was angry with him for deceiving me but I realise now
that I allowed him to treat me in this way. I did all of the chasing
initially, I bought him gifts, took him sightseeing round my country, did
all of the running. If I’d have just stepped back then he would have been
gone and I wouldn’t have had all of the heartache.
I am quite good at No Contact though and haven’t responded to the 3
attempts he’s made to contact me and he’s blocked everywhere and all of the
cards, presents and photos are gone to the charity shop or the recycling
bin.
I typically think about him when I am driving to work in the morning for
some reason. This morning I was thinking that I would like to be ready, I’d
like to meet someone and be able to exercise better boundaries but I worry
that I can never learn and in the past I’ve always thought that I am
picking better this time but I never have. I’ve gone for a different
packaging of the same thing. I’m now almost 50.
The fact that I let this happen is a bit a relief as that is something I
can hopefully do something about. I won’t be hoodwinked again – I wasn’t
hoodwinked at all. What happened was within my control. I did allow it but
I can also work to not let this happen again
And if I don’t meet someone then I have got a good life as a singleton without the drama
Do you think maybe the key is being happy? In the moment? To give as much as you want, and not as a way to hang on to the person but because you want to give and enjoy their company? Relationships end for all sorts of reasons. It doesn’t mean there is something wrong with you or with them. If he was treating you badly or you were bending over backwards to be the good girlfriend then that’s a problem and also means the relationship was no fun. If it was fun, then that’s time well spent anyway isn’t it?
I totally understand the fear of trying again and failing and messing up. But that’s your interpretation that this was a failure or a mess up. If you enjoy giving and doing things for people then keep doing it. Enjoy it. But if people treat you badly then stop of course – because how can it make you happy if you give and they not only just take but are resentful? And if you’re giving to someone resentful then how is that heartfelt? That’s a form of control your side or fear of rejection or of stating your needs.
In other words something whole hearted is always right. Even if it ends. And I don’t think we can give whole heartedly to someone resistant or resentful or greedy or insecure. I don’t always know how we can practice being whole hearted but isn’t that the whole point of being alive? To practice how to be authentic and whole hearted?
I feel for you! My Father told me once, that to avoid this vicious cycle of being involved in toxic relationships, I should be less “unconditional”. Natalie wrote an excellent post about how “unconditional love” is a de facto synonym for “having no boundaries”. We are often afraid that if want something in return, then it’s not honest and it’s not love. Well…. not true in my opinion. My Father said : “If you have a friend and you invite her here or there, or send her birthday greetings, or do stuff for her, observe her reactions carefully. People who will take you for granted will always do everything to never do any good in return. Sure, they will thank you for invitations, gifts, time you spend with them, but they WON’T invest their efforts in you. Same for romantic relationships. My Dad said you should give a little, and then watch how the person reacts. Keep the balance! Give others not more then they give you. It’s not a cold canculation, it’s keeping things in a balance. With normal and healthy people it’s super easy, because they will do the same! No effort, no weird situations…. .
An example : my Mom has two friends, Anna and Grace. Grace is a type of person, who will tell how how life is, who will invite you “just because”, who will bake a cake for you when you are sick, and who will give you two buckets of pears from her garden, just because she has plenty of them and wants to share with you, because you have none. It automatically make us behaving in the same way – joyful meeting, spontaneous sharing.
Anna is tight-fisted. When she gives you anything, it’s only something old, half-broken (to be honest, I would never do such thing to anyone!), and she believes she is “generous”. She return texts or calls from my Mom only when she’s in a mood to do so. My Mom helped her incredibly when her son was ill and died, Mum supported her and so on. She never showed any normal gratitude to my Mom. It’s not about words, gifts, stuff like that. It’s about some basic stuff, like answring those phone calls.
Resume: it’s wise to be outgoing,friendly and sharing with Grace, because she sees its value. Anna feels entitled to be cared for, and in the same time she doesn’t have any need to care too much for my Mom. Friendship with Grace is authentic, “friendship” with Anna is not friendship at all. It’s one-sided.
I’ve decided to put my Dad’s theory into practice with one of my acquaintances, and I was amazed. When I stopped giving too much, care too much ,share too much and all that people-pleasing stuff, I realized that this person is not exactly as I thought. This person’s true colours showed up in a quite unpleasant way. I discovered this person is egocentric and doesn’t need a friend but a sycophant. BUT… because I didn’t invest much of my emotions, feelings, time etc., I didn’t felt like a loser when “shit happened”. I was still in control of my dignity, emotions, self-esteem.
Because I was not butt-kissing people -pleaser this time, that person accused me of “not being helpful”, “ignore his feelings” and “being totally insensitite and arrogant”. I bet you want to know what horrible thing I’ve done, right? Ready?
I said that the amonut of snow in the place he lives is nothing to worry about. It’s barely a few inches / centimetres (!). In many other places people live in a severe weather conditions and they still are able to function, even if it’s much harder and takes much more time.
YEPP. And that was enough for him to send me an insulting message about my arrogance, ignorance and lack of sensitivity and all. I read my comment to my Mother, I read his reply.. my Mother was shocked. I have no idea why he insulted me, but at least I didn’t feel like I “invested” my good will, time and effort in a person who doesn’t deserve it. Mind you, he got mad because of my comment about the weather. If he react this way about nonimportant things, then I can imagine his rage when it comes to big stuff.
So… try this method! Give to the people who give you, and more less the same amount of what they give. Keep the balance! 🙂
P.S. sorry for typos 🙂
I love your id of ‘Border Control Trainee’, very apt! Your post was really lovely too, very balanced.
Six months! More like twenty years for me- how long will it take me to reprogram my mind?! I have wasted so much time! I found this site today- until today I thought I was alone with all this and that I had some sort of special thing going on with the love of my life and then I read all this stuff here- it’s as if it’s all been written about me. I’m sort of horrified but part of me still doesn’t want to believe it- like my life has been a lie. What an idiot I am.
Ellie, please do not call yourself an idiot. That makes me sad. We all try to do the best we can. Sometimes we need to get a little more help. There are some excellent help sources in the comments. Peace and love to you.
Excellent info. Excellent comments. Thank you.
Sometimes constant thinking about our past is a symptom of PTSD. If your ex was not just a plain jerk, but a cunning abuser, you can’t just “forget”. I was wondering why it’s so hard to “move on”… I don’t know what you think about it, but for people like me (dealing with PTSD) the whole ruminating evolves in this way –> thoughts about (t.a.) being abused BY HIM –> t.a.b. replaced BY HIM –> t.a.b. ridiculed BY HIM –> t.a. feeling like I AM a hopeless loser / blaming MYSELF –> t.a. ME being unattractive to anyone else except for my former abuser –> t.a. ME being unable to make people to want to by MY friends –> t.a. ME feeling paralysed by the fear of being stuck in helplessness.
People often tell me it’s weird or abnormal to think about my former boyfriend for such a long time, but the truth is, I don’t think about him anymore. I think about my own life. My relationship with him was a part of my life. I learned (thanks to this blog! ) a lot about toxic people, my own weaknesses and lack of self-esteem and boundaries. I’ve changed a lot and now I really like myself and respect myself. The only think I’ve stucked with is that I hardly make friends “in real world”. Why? Because most of folks are married with children and completely uninterested in being anyone’s friend. Thank God I have some online friends who were my guard angels during the worst time of my recovery.
I am sure that my whole recovery from this relationship would be very fast, if I had a strong support from the friends “in real life”, if I knew there are people who I might spend time with, chat like normal people do, laugh, stuff like that. It’s painful ,because when I was with him I had many “friends”, I had a sense of belonging. for a short period of this relationship I had a sense of “being alive”. I don’t have it anymore. I miss having friends. And I don’t have too many chances to meet new people here where I live. In a few years I’ll be 40 and my life is like a big black hole: super heavy, nothing inside, and I don’t know how to fix it. I am definitely ready to “forget” about this relationship and move on, but to forget about it, I need something to think about. Something good, optimistic and … you know what I mean…. something to make that past memories meaningless.
BorderControlTrainee-Wouldn’t it be so much easier if he didn’t go on as if everything was fine? The cheater who got me, didn’t tell me he was cheating on the woman he lived with, who bought a home for him after he cheated with her on his then 2nd wife, specifically, his first and then his second, same person, wife whom he had cheated on in both marriages. And between marriages to her he was with a woman with whom he owned a townhouse and began cheating on her with his soon to be second, first wife. The man is sick. These men are sick. Your man is sick. Sickness is contagious sometimes. From their sickness we get PTSD. But from what I have read, as I have struggled to recover for 6 years, is that we are healthy in that we set boundaries. We did not put up with their behavior. This man’s first wife, divorced him, once. She then went back, only to divorce him again. She too, has PTSD. He still lives with the woman he was living with when he cheated on her with me. And she cheated on her hubby with this cheater man. Sure, we wonder about them, I sure hope he is miserable worrying about his meal ticket coming to an end-he is now 70 years old and was 64 when he started up with me. I had no idea and must say that I was of the same age, widowed and it never crossed my mind that some man that old would be in this game of cheat, cheat cheat on anyone, whether wife, or the live-with. When I found out the truth about him, he said, “I love her and I am never leaving her”. He had already left in the sense of commitment and I cannot believe one can love someone and still cheat on them. But I ended it. It still hurts, but not as much-because it hurts to be used, betrayed, treated like a tool, not a person with feelings. I hope he is in emotional muck. I hope this current cheated on woman has an invisible fence around his neck. I hope he has std’s, gonorrhea and syphilis all at the same time. What I do believe in is karma. I am in contact with his ex-wife whom I sought out after this happened. So many lies he told and her story was all truths, I could tell -she knew I told her truths, also. I think the karma train came for her along with some healing and satisfaction to learn that the same woman he had cheated with, when married to this wife, he was now cheating on. HAHA. Imagine that! So, I sent a registered letter to this currently cheated on woman along with many of this man’s emails. The letter had my name and my email address and I invited her to contact me if she had any questions. She never did. We all think they are staying together to prove something to those he hurt, (that they are true loves because they are still together)-and that includes 3 of his siblings, and all of his ex-wife’s 7 siblings (yes, Irish) who have zero to do with him, yet include the ex-wife in everything, weddings, trips, cruises, etc. and she stays with them when in from out of town. How’s that for a slap? AND when I sent the letter to the current cheated on woman, I first had the ex/first/second wife approve it, gave her several sets of everything and told her she can show ANYONE, give to anyone, tell ANYONE. Another piece of karma is about the home the cheated on current she, bought to house him and his woodshop tools, which has a mortgage-a 4 bed 2.5 bath in Palatine Illinois-gawd, I would love to give the address and names, but I won’t-just for my privacy, not theirs. This current cheated on woman is 71. Even though this house is in her name only, she needs this man to help maintain the house BECAUSE she paid $410,000, has a mortgage and the house is now $70,000. underwater. I am a non-selling RE BROKER, along with MBA in Finance and Paralegal so believe me when I tell you that if she sells her house, which will be very difficult in corrupt Illinois where people are fleeing at the rate of one taxpayer every 4 minutes, this woman will be out at minimum, $100,000.00. Karma and the price of luvvykisskiss- not love. Remember she was a cheater too and knew she was cheating with a married man. Here’s a clue-her son has a boat and that was one of their rendezvous places 12 years ago when he and she were both married living in their shared spouse’s homes-cheaper than a motel and this man is proven gigolo. So, I think my PTSD will end when I know about his downfall. And I will, eventually, since my connection with the ex-wife gets me all info she gets from his damaged and reticent two sons, one of whom dislikes the current cheated on woman, who for some, not odd, reason, they have lived together unmarried. It does however allow her to cheat on her Real Estate taxes as she does not claim the household income which is perjury in Illinois. But then, character is what a person does. We have character-and there are so many people in this world who do not. We hear about them every single day, whether they are people like Harvey Weinstein, people like Hillary Clinton and her payments for uranium, fake reports, illegal wire-tapping, or these people who infected our lives and forever will take up a piece of gray matter. I can only tell you that what you feel is normal-your friends don’t understand. They don’t understand because it hasn’t happened to them. They haven’t experienced a deep wound to the heart-just because it was not a physical stab, rather an emotional stab, it’s a trauma to our brains. We can have a physical issue, whether a cold, or surgery and generally we eventually recover. But brain injuries are forever. Although symptoms may or do subside, the effect is with us for the rest our lives. That’s us. You are normal. It’s not great to tell you that it will take many more years of your life-as I glean, it’s not much more than a year at the most. But, still this pain we experience is a gift too-our compassion for the person who comes along in your life, who is suffering from a similar trauma, is who you will help. Just as I am seeing and identifying with your angst in some impersonal blog, a total stranger, I know what it is like for you. Someday, you will help someone in person with their pain-their deep pain. You will. That’s the gift we having been given, the gift of giving. Bless you. Stay safe and thank you for what you are doing for our country.
Find your real interests and you will find friends. Join groups who have the same interests.
Hi everyone! I briefly mentioned my history with a very narcissistic EU within this thread. I didn’t know about these men at all until I started reading this blog.
My guy acted like the best thing since sliced bread. He was literally everything I had dreamed of except he had secrets and he still does. After a lot of confusion, and trying to figure out why he shares deep hurtful things about himself (he’s telling me he is broken and acts the way he does because of childhood trauma), and I have to accept him as is. If I can’t , well, 2 bad. He wore me out with ignoring my texts and the last straw was after New Years. He had been on an extended business trip and we finally saw eachother for 2 days. He quickly netted out again but texted saying we would see eachother again soon as his schedule was changing. Great! I got an instant high thinking about how much he cared for me, and really valued what we weee trying to work through. Oh bull. I realized this after 3 weeks of him not answering a single text. He said he had been at deaths door and didn’t look at his phone at all. Seriously? I used to follow him on twitter and it was the only way I knew he was still alive and able to press a key on his phone. Nope. Done with that. I left Twitter and don’t care to see what he’s doing while he’s “at deaths door”. His last text was to flirt with me and said he would be over again when he could. Nothing since.
He’s just not relationship material. What he is, is a drug that makes you feel amazing in the moment but after you go through withdrawal and it is just awful. He doesn’t care if I’m hurting or missing him. I’m positive he loves that I text and he just stares at it and doesn’t reply. So, I stopped. I have trouble with reaching for the phone because things remind me of him but I’m working on distancing myself from him. I don’t believe a word he says now and trust is out the window. Patching myself up is tough but I’m working hard. Honestly if he texts me saying he wants to meet up, I don’t know what I’ll do. Part of me says No. the other says “yes! Tell him off” … men. Sigh. Good luck ladies you are not alone!
Sunny you can do no contact – he clearly isn’t that in to you – so be into yourself instead. Do all the things that you want to do for yourself- you deserve better than he has to offer you
Hi BorderControl- that’s the issue : this man has been doing this for about 10 years now. That’s how long we have known eachother. We were just friends for about half of that time, and the rest is all a muddled blue of flirting and things progressing. I’ve never not believed him when he said he cares for me and trusts me etc.. especially after everything he’s told me about his horrific childhood. I’ve seen a very weak side to this man, and I do feel bad but it doesn’t excuse his shady behavior. It plays a part but being a lousy friend after I’ve been there for him no matter what just sucks. I’ve pushed away from the bar so to speak a million times and forgiven just as much. Each time I disappear and rebuild he shows up again and I listen patiently — which excuse this time… the entire situation sucks because I honestly believe he cares for me but because of his narcissistic mental state, he will never change. What I see is what I get.
I’m currently in counseling because of this and am seeing him in a new light. I no longer get depressed when he vanishes and doesn’t text me. It aggravates me but I don’t take it to heart thinking it’s me. It’s not me at all!!
I go about my days and reward myself when I don’t think about texting him something I see tha we used to enjoy. Little things like that are tough but I have noticed I am not the only one who struggles.
I think in his mind i am someone who sees a dark side, vulnerable side to a man who portrays himself as rock steady and very sure of himself for his job. He’s not. He likes that he can cry around me and slump against me on the couch and I comfort him.
What about me? The ratio is wayyyyy off. It’s all about him. So, as hard as it is I just work through the fact that I have a man who loves me but he will never be enuff for me. Pushing him away hurts but is necessary to take care of myself. Reading all of these posts certainly helps me as well 🙂 I was truly broken a year ago and he has tried to wiggle his way back in and do it again.. I can’t and won’t.
What I can’t understand is how, even if your experience was a short-lived thing, if you were treated with absolute disdain by someone very dear to you (two year friendship initially) and whom you treated well (too well) and only ever tried to love, you can wind so damaged emotionally.
I can’t understand how someone can be so loving and kind one minute and then so cold the next, like you never existed.
On the one hand there are the classic signs of narcissism, or at least traits of it, which of course meant I was gaslit and blamed for the demise of the brief relationship and friendship. But on the other hand I want to be able to forgive her, be compassionate and understanding and empathetic to someone who was never any of those things towards me. And I want to do that despite no acknowledgment of my own feelings, no apology or even an attempt to understand my own perspective.
I really don’t understand how and why so many people (going by the amount of great people on here) can be treated so poorly by fellow human beings. I can’t understand how all of us can be so motivated to grow and learn from the experience, and yet the people on the other side, of which there logically just as many people, are so opposed to the idea of self-growth. Thoufh I realise that’s not something one can force upon another – of course the desire for that has to come from within.
And while I obviously crave validation of my own feelings and emotions, I’m at a loss as to where to start in order to simply move on. I crave the day that I look back on all this and simply don’t care, and realise it was the making of me. But I know there’s a long journey ahead before I find the self-worth and self-confidence to be of that mindset. Maybe if I had more self-esteem to start with I’d have avoided the situation altogether.
Most of all out of all this though, I don’t want to stop believing that there is potentially someone out there that can and will be able to treat me with love, kindness, respect, empathy, understanding, as well as be accountable for their actions.
It’s nice to be able to just write and express your thoughts in such a great forum without fear of any judgment or backlash 🙂
You took the words out of my mouth and a lot of others on here, Trevor! We may never ever get an answer especially with a narcissist. Looking back I never saw the signs until recently. I held out hope that he would change if I just hung in longer. He was very aware with his game that he played that I would always be there and never give up on him. When I would disappear, he would frantically try to Hoover me back in. I played that game a few times and only until he failed to text me when there was bad news within our circle of friends did I see how selfish and cold he was. These people literally do not care, and have a child like state of mind. If they ignore the bad, the stress, the issues, it will all go away. They stomp there feet if they are upset with you. When things are good though, you feel like it will all work out but it’s short lived.
I’ve had about 8 years of this and recently felt strong enough to make my move away from the man who treated me this way. He hasn’t realized that I’m on to him – nor do I care. I’m focused on me. There is someone else out there that is worthy of my love and attention and I hope to meet them when the time is right. Thinking about how much time I wasted, and the things I gave him make me so mad but there isn’t a darn thing I can do. Time to look forward . Good luck Trevor.
All power to you, Elaine. I think having that inner focus you talk about, which is hard and something I’ve failed to do thus far, will actually stop us needing any kind of answers anyway as we’re living for ourselves and not someone else. In the end it’s irrelevant why someone mistreats us, what is important though is that they did. And it is no reflection on us or our self-worth.
Trevor- you are on the right path. I’m not sure what kind of situation you had, but if you tend to think about this person suddenly during the day and about good times that you shared just stop. Quickly refocus on your work. Read CNN. Anything. I had a very tough time with no contact because I craved hearing his texts come in to me. The only time he texted was when it benefited him though. He always wanted something. Sometimes he would simply text me “hello” after I hadn’t heard from him in a month, and poof! He was gone if I answered. It was a tactic to see if I was still on the line. No one should have to work his hard for bread crumbs from someone. He wasn’t worth it because of the stress he caused and the anger within me. It took its toll on my health and he will never know that because he simply does not care. Sad people like that walk amongst us with no empathy. I can only hope he finds happiness in some way and doesn’t torture others like he did me. I hope you find the person you are meant to be with Trevor because you deserve nothing but the best. Don’t let anyone walk all over your heart. Your gut instincts will be on high alert now. 🙂
Ditto to Elaine’s response Trevor. I am also trying hard to understand this behaviour and its motivations. I constantly wonder, what do people who operate like this tell themselves? What excuses do they make to their own conscience?
Just another added example of this behavior: he had some items at my house. After he got a job elsewhere he suddenly texted me saying he would be in my area to get them. Did he have an exact time, date, month.. nope. But that was his focus for the moment. He did that with ALOt of things. Recently he texted asking if I had one of his CD’s because he needs it for some presentation he’s working on. I do have it.. he made it seem like it was something he hAD to have immediately or the world would crumble. Fine I’ll have it for you but when will you be here? Haven’t heard a word since but I knew that would happen. He’s incapable of locking in times to meet up. He used to when he was first chasing me. Now he just assumes he can randomly text me at midnight and pop by to grab his stuff.
It’s exhausting at times thinking about the WHY and don’t they GET IT? No they don’t. A narcissist like I dealt with crushed me because I hadn’t ever dealt with one and I kept going back in fear of losing the good times and moments. Surely he will explain why he has ghosted me for a month after we spent a glamourous weekend together! Nope. He would randomly show up thinking things were fine because in his mind they were.
I struggle with NC sometimes and ultimately anger sets in thinking about how miserable he has made me. So I go workout instead and crank up the music. His loss . He’s suffering not enjoying time with me. They are drugs to us…
That’s exactly right. It’s their loss, and not ours. They lost someone that truly cared about them, while we lost someone who was ambivalent at best…
That is what hurts the most with these people. You get frustrated because you hope they realize how amazing you are and what they are losing — they will never see it because all they see are themselves. You have to rewire your brain and try to stop thinking of them and move forward knowing that someone else is out there and worth the love you have.
Trevor: I understand what you are going through. I keep asking why my best friend of 15 years (male), has treated me so coldly. He has all of the signs of a narcissist which I never even linked to him. He and I have had feelings for one another throughout the years and recently things got a bit more involved – he didn’t disappear after that, but he made more empty promises after being honest about many things. He thanked me for sticking with him for a lot of years knowing he has had ups and downs. Yes I have given him the benefit of the doubt a lot and forgiven but I’m thinking these kind of people don’t know how to feel things. They hurt but don’t care. They float through the world thinking it’s only them. I told him my father was ill via text and I had to explain more to him about it. He never said a word and vanished for a week. Who does that. He finally texted but he said HE had been sick and hadn’t seen his phone for days and he needed to know if I had some of his clothes still at my crib. Seriously? Still nothing about a man who you think of as your own father? I have mentioned it again to him but he has vanished yet again. It’s been about 3 weeks. I try to send him funny texts like we always do or other items of mention and get zero. He always comes around eventually but I’m tired. I really don’t understand this man at all and my love for him is depleting. 🙁
Here are some red flags. I’m sure these are in Nats list but I just recently experienced these and want to write them down.
Someone that dismisses rules – e.g. saying they aren’t interested in marriage. If you didn’t ask them to marry you then why are they blathering about how much they have to be free agents? It’s a way to tell you that normal rules don’t apply to them. Same with someone dismissing stories about infidelity in others. They are dismissing rules about commitment. They are also likely to make you feel stupid and hidebound and traditional to have rules yourself and hence they are subtly telling you not to have boundaries or expectations.
Someone that is ambiguous to you – e.g. Someone that invites you out to a date but then shows up with other friends or converts it into a group hangout or comes on strong and then doesn’t make a move. The reason to avoid this person is partly that this person isn’t showing clear interest. But also this person might find it very easy to be ambiguous. So they will not only keep you at arms length and confused they might make it a habit to be ambiguous with others. And they will probably also talk about those ambiguous relationships to you making you feel doubly insecure. I’ve found that so many guys talk a lot about the harem etc. Somwtimes there isn’t even a harem. They like to talk it up. It keeps you feeling unstable. And it keeps them practicing their unavailability.
Suki I am going to disagree with you that someone who doesn’t want to marry is dismissing rules. I have been married twice, the last time to a monster who developed a personality disorder. Due to the emotional abuse and other things I experienced, I don’t wish to marry again. I am in my 50s and having nearly been homeless during the traumatic divorce from this man I will not relinquish my own space. There is also not the emotional resilience for failed marriages when older. People are allowed to feel that they don’t want to live with a man or marry. My elderly father and his companion live apart and not does he like it but she does as well yet they are committed to each other. As you get older it becomes more difficult to meld lives and there are often children to consider and finances. I also have health problems and simply know that I don’t want someone being in a position of power over me when I am ill nor do I want to become someones carer. For me I neither need nor want a man in my life and am at a place where I am content. Most men I meet are dysfunctional in some way having not dealt with their past baggage and/or are more interested in their daughter’s friends. I have sorted my life out and don’t intend to be a man’s emotional airbag or therapist to then see them move on when they’ve used me to heal. Maybe you are younger but I will be up front if I think a man wants to marry so there is no hurt. At my age it is often because men want someone to cook, clean and nurse them!
I agree with you! Perhaps I was not clear enough. I totally understand that one might not want to be married especially not married again. And I would not mind if I asked someone what they wanted and they said not marriage. I’m not sure I am interested to be married but I do believe in it and I believe in what it stands for. I have found more that the ‘I don’t believe in marriage’ statement which comes very early and when no talk of marriage is on the table is more a sign of ambiguity and warning the partner away from commitment or faithfulness. It’s a sign of I’m not interested in what goes with marriage which is love and trust and long term commitment. No reflection on your experience I totally understand what you mean. And I agree with you that marriage is not always something you want to take on later in life when you are set and your finances are in order and you like your house etc.
I completely understand you. If someone says they don’t believe in marriage early on before anything is serious that is a massive red flag and a warning for potentially shady behaviour. I believe in love and commitment and for those who have long marriages I salute you. I would give commitment to a man but need my safe space and would respect his. Not only that but I am a relationship woman and am not looking for a quick bang. At my age I can’t be bothered with games and if someone isn’t on the same wavelength then I won’t pass go. Meeting men who aren’t Peter Pans or pervy Peter Pans isn’t easy so the fact I am single saves me a lot of hassle and with health problems that is my priority. Because of the latter I don’t want a man to walk when the going gets tough as my last ex did amongst other things. After two marriages I simply have no desire to go there now.
Is a narcassist male truly ever your best friend?
Natalie, I am new to your blog. I know that God is working through you to heal my broken heart. I feel compassion for you because I realize your blog was born from your own heartbreak. Now you are helping so many people, like me. Wish you the best!
Natalie,
Your posts are helping me to reclaim my self esteem. I just bought your books via Amazon and am anxiously awaiting their arrival. I am currently in a relationship with someone who is married. I have tried, unsuccessfully, to end it several times over the last 6 months. I know what I need to do but am unable/unwilling to break this habit. I am hoping to gain strength from following your blog and reading your books. Thank you.
There are great podcast episodes about your situation that will help you!! In addition to her books and blog, definitely utilize the podcast as a resource. It has helped me in so many ways, so many times.
I can’t tell you all how much better I feel reading about your struggles with EU, AC, narcissistic individuals. Cuz I am on that same train Choo choo!
I want to jump off of the train so badly but it keeps circling around and around and just when it slows down so I can jump, things get going again. Let me explain.
I fell for my best friend about 15 years ago. He lit up my world, made me feel amazing about myself (I am not a super model, but I am darn pretty haha). We both knew we had feelings and we flirted a lot, hung out but nothing serious happened. One night he finally admitted he had a GF that lived elsewhere because of her position at a large company. He had chosen to move to my area because of a special job he was training in. I slowed things down and we agreed that friends was good. Whenever he had a bad day, got hurt,sick, needed a pet sitter for his dog – guess who he called. I was always there to help him out. The stories I heard of child hood abuse crushed me, and I remember standing there as he cried thinking – this man needs me. I can fix him and help him. Wrong . He has ptsd, adhd, and is a narcassist. I know all of this now after over the years he has lead me to believe he was leaving his GF because she was crazy, complained about her nonstop, and texted me during a concert she bought tickets for saying he wished she hadn’t done that and wanted to spend time with me. I ate it up like chocolate sauce. More time goes by and I’ve developed this band aid of love for the man. I can still fix him and help him so he’s happy. I want him to be happy! Never once did I see what was happening to me during this. I started drinking more because he did. We would drink at his place and watch movies etc. if I was at my place he would text me what he was drinking and vice verse.. the flirting increased and he said he just can’t stop thinking about me. After he had some minor surgery for his knee, he literally started to vanish. I asked if he needed me to help him recover- heck I would take a couple of days off and run errands. Never a word back. Something had changed and it wasn’t good. He pushed me away ignoring me so much that I snapped. I melted down one night drinking so much that I was in hospital the next day. I recovered and he finally saw me but only after a friend dragged him to my office to see me. He played it off with excuses. Flirting the entire time. That was his way of showing he cared for me.
Fast forward to about 2 months ago. He moved away to live with his GF, and he is only around this area 2 days a week once in awhile. I had stopped texting him, and was healing. I was miffed because he didn’t even bother to tell me as a friend that he had decided to up and leave. Manners man! My parents who were close to him sat shocked when I explained he had left. So, out of the blue he texts saying he needs to see me ASAP. It’s on his terms… always is./was. I decide fine – now is my chance to give him grief. I meet him, he’s been drinking. We get dinner, he pays for whatever I want. Anything! Wish I had chosen a fancy steak house. We go back to my place so we can talk. He actually opens up and explains what’s going on in his life. Normally he is guarded. Very guarded. Asking if he likes the color green would provoke an angry look. Oh no that night I had many questions answered and he admitted he was wrong and apologized. I finally asked why he disappears and all he could say was that it was him. Not me. Never has been me. Bull. The man has “punished” me when I didn’t tell him a friend of ours was in a car accident and he read it online. The child like narcassist kicked in. He ignored me and wouldn’t text me at all for 2 weeks. So he left me wanting more of him when he visited because he told me he loved me and reminded me of how much I helped him with, and how he loved my parents ..my father is ill and I tried telling this man that I had to tell him about my father. I hinted it was bad news. He never returned my text. I left a voicemail. Nothing. But yet he sends a text saying he’s been gone for a week not looking at his phone because of an illness. Did your eyeballs pop out and your fingers shrivel? No. No no. I can’t take anymore excuses. I’ve sent him updates on my father as recently as today and he doesn’t text back. For a man who said that he was like a real father to him, he really isn’t showing much empathy. Oh wait- that’s because he’s a narcassist! I have some of his things that he wants and he wanted them ASAP. Good will is down the road ….thanks for letting me vent. I would be curious to see if anyone else has struggled with this. I’m working on pushing myself away from him and doing NC now and it’s tough because of how close we were. But now I don’t know how much was real ?
Galaxy,
You are in control of youself and your life and you need to be real with yourself first. As adult women nothing can remain in our life without permission. What are you expecting from a man that has a girlfriend? What do you believes he owes you? As long as you keep playing free therapist for this man you are doing it to yourself.
Agreed. He never made the move because he was getting all he needed without any effort. Just wanted some attention and an ego stroke. He needs to put on his big boy pants and you need to don your big girl pants. You lost nothing because there was nothing to lose, nothing that you ever had with this jerk. I suggest that you text him and say he can pick up his stuff from outside your house/garage/whatever within 3 days or it will go to the tip, then also tell him that he is never to show up or text you again and block him. He leaves his stuff as a foothold to get back in your life. Believe me that if you have to dump his stuff it will be cathartic. The tip is where these man children belong.
ljsrmissy and Feisty- thanks for your counsel, I appreciate that! I must say that part of my continued internalization regarding him is because of the fact that we did slip up and fool around that time he was in town. He actually texted me a lot the next day very upset because he said he had been very nervous around me. I figured he would text me ASAP when he was in town again (he is currently starting the separation from his GF), but surprise surprise – nothing. I should be the one rejecting his texts after that night but anywayyyys. I think you are right feisty about having a foothold in my life if he has items here. He did that before and he just kept stringing me along saying he would show up at some point but could never set a day or time. He’s always been like that. His priorities for each day depend on his mood, and who makes his ego puff up. It’s damn exhausting and I hope no one else has to suffer like this with a guy who plays a very skilled game. I honestly had no clue of what he was doing to me until I researched it more. This blog has also been truly helpful. Reading multiple posts it appears the best thing to do is not text him a ranting, hate filled text. Just vanish like he does for a month at a time and that’s it. Control – I am looking forward to taking the wheel and controlling the direction my life is going in. He isn’t enough for me, and seriously not even a real man even though he brags and plays the part of a Superman daily. Smoke and mirrors. If he is done with his GF I hope he doesn’t turn to me for a place to stay once in awhile – he has hinted at that. I laughed when he told me that a male friend of his rejected him when asked if he could stay with him sometime. He’s burned a lot of bridges with people. My bridge is smoking! Soooo here I am with his number in my phone knowing he will be in the area tomorrow. Time to lose the number and donate his things to some people who can use them. All of my offers over the years to cook him a hearty meal, help him run errands when his knee was out, lend him things… never saw hardly anything in return. Time to find a man who respects me more and actually appreciates my kindness and love. If this guy loves me as he says, it’s the oddest thing I’ve ever seen.
Atta girl. I like the concept of donating his things but I’d still give him the chance to collect them as you don’t want to be charged with destroying his property or something like that. These men can be very vindictive when the mood takes them. Text him and keep the text but give a deadline so he is clear what the outcome is if he doesn’t pick his stuff up. Then block and go NC and after 3 days you know what to do with his stuff.
Have a witness present as you take one big group photo of all of his stuff and do a written log (an itemized list) of his stuff. On the same day, write him a letter (that you will send via certified mail and regular mail) identifying the stuff and telling him that is is NOW abandoned; and that you are willing to give him 5 business days to pick it up, and that if he doesn’t, you will treat it as what is is right now: abandoned property.
Fiesty and Used – brilliant idea!!! I actually took the time and put the items into a box, labeled it “appropriately”, and have it in my spare room. He texted me out of the blue 2 nights ago saying his work schedule had changed but that he would call me in the morning to explain some things. I laughed knowing he wouldn’t. He didn’t. Such mental games with these guys. Because I know him so well, I know he will reach out again and when he does I’m ignoring whatever he says and telling him he has 3 days to get his stuff… great idea ! I’ll also have a friend know about all of this. Love it. Haha
I’m reading a lot of posts from people who either are or were heavily invested in someone they don’t seem to have a particularly high opinion of. I’m not passing judgement because I’ve been there myself. I came to BR because I was unable to break free of a relationship that was making me completely miserable with a man I “loved” but didn’t like.
Wanting, needing or, worse, expecting attention from someone you don’t respect or like is a sign that you need to take a serious look at your own feelings and motivations. It is impossible to have a healthy and happy relationship with someone you have a low opinion of. Saying things would be great if only they would change means you have contempt for the person they are now. Whatever they did or didn’t do, when you have little or nothing good to say about a person it is time to move on. Being “right” is no consolation for time wasted.
I agree with Stephanie . I also think it’s difficult to let go of someone depending on the situation. If they are a narcassist that is able to lure u in and throw u out repeated times with promise of change, that messes a person up. Been there done that. Getting resolve and feeling like you can walk away the “winner” will never happen with men like this. I have tried to figure out why I went back over and over to a man who would never be enough, never commit, and certainly never show me the respect I needed when I deserved it. I don’t have an answer. I was raised in a loving family with supportive parents and a protective father. The man I fell for had the opposite upbringing completely. I thought I could fix him somehow like a lot of these woman do. He made me depressed because all I was doing was trying to be there for him and help him. I did at times when he was physically hurt from his job he has, or needed a shoulder but sadly – he didn’t have enough to give me. It was never about me. I still have days where I sit here knowing he is around and I crave that text tone. I think it’s part of the healing process. It sucks but we all have to deal with it in our own way and perhaps the hardest thing is really not knowing why we cling to them.. but realize we are all here to try and figure out a way to let go on our own terms. It’s posisble but painful.
I’m beginning to believe that sometimes their reasons for ‘luring us back’ are not that different from our reasons for going back. Maybe they are as disillusioned as we are but, like us, are unable to walk away. Maybe, sometimes, they ask themselves why they cling to us. Just because we do more, give more, sacrifice more does not make us ideal relationship partners. This is the point I was trying to make above. Once I reached the place where most of my feelings about him and the relationship were negative, I was no longer a good relationship partner.
My ex was thoroughly selfish and often unkind. I deserved much better. But, the real problem is that I was treating myself badly by overgiving and waiting for him to prove my worth by reciprocating or at least acknowledging my efforts. In my own way, I was as messed up as he was.
Wow that makes so much sense Stephanie. We give and give so they are drawn to us, but they know that we are not someone who they want to have a relationship with. We fill a void that maybe others cannot and that’s why they are also “addicted” to us. Also as you said , I have been treating myself badly because of this push and pull trying to keep him happy. Grasping at straws and accepting bread crumbs. Forgiving when he disappears for a month and doesn’t reply to a text —always offering to help him and give him my time. Zip zero zilch from him and he’s not worth it. I will be ready next time, and know the signs of a Narcassist. I don’t think I can handle going through it again.
Natalie, as I sit here in the California sunshine reading this article, I cannot believe how relevant this article is to my current state. The exact struggles I am enduring (having moved on, but questioning why I still think of him) are addressed here. I feel like you wrote this for me. Thank you.
So true. I have fleeting thoughts of someone for 25 years, since college. He said he loved me but was newly with someone he didn’t want to leave. Have dated (unsuccessfully) since then. He got in touch suddenly recently, and is now single, and things cld have happened but did not because this last week he says he’s met someone. I certainly hope the fact I’ve not forgotten him and loved him means I can’t or have been unable to move on.
I think we can all go through some hurtful and heart deflating crushes , relationships, friendships. With me, all of them have a place in my heart and I will still think of certain men depending on the situation. With the latest FAIL, it’s still very fresh and I must move forward and let go. He’s in my heart though. Apparently I am still in his as well because he’s never happy with any new GF and claims he loves me. The issue is I don’t trust him. Everything else about him is what I have wanted since college. Watching someone walk away because of a trust issue is tough but I’ll most likely lock him away and think of him once in awhile over the next 50 years haha. I feel u can move on and start over but sometimes the heart knows what it wants. You also cannot change a person though. 🙂
Hi guys : just an update . The narcissistic guy who was on my life just officially helped me end things with him. He had been ignoring texts until he wanted something from me. Ignored when I tried to tell him about some very serious health issues as well. Well today he called me asking for something that would benefit him. I stopped him and called him out on it . He just kept trying to defend himself. I asked if he even remembered when he blabbed on and on about things after drinking one night. Whenever he drinks he is emotional and opens up about a lot. Always been like that. He said he remembered a little – basically the part where he said he loved me he never mentioned that sober. I asked if he had seen that there was a serious health issue in the family that I needed to tell him about . He got quiet and sarcastic saying he did see that and knows they will be fine. Really? So u couldn’t text me something sweet and kind maybe even encouraging when I originally texted you? That was the final straw for me. I hung up with a headache and my stomache in knots. This man has truly shown his true colors and it pains me to think that he really expects me to love him for who he is. Nope. Good luck…
I think my struggle, and that of others is the urge to hear from these men. We know they are not enough. We know that they give us bread crumbs. That quick “fix” is all we want. I personally get so frustrated with myself because I end up texting him hoping he will text back and talk to me like he used to. The dynamic has changed since he moved away and we no longer see each other weekly. Now it’s once every few months and i work very hard to try and push forward but it’s difficult. My record for Nc is 1 week and he started to text me again. I realize it was to make sure I was still in his back pocket . Sadly I am. This man is a narcissist like others have described on here and the last time he told me he loved me he was drunk and using me as a “therapist”. I’ve always helped him through tough times and he knows it and he recognizes it. His lack of empathy for even small things upsets me. What’s the draw? Why can’t I accept who he is and just move on? I’ve recently lost a lot of weight and am extremely proud of it . Im healthier than ever and he gets jealous because guys notice. I love that. It shouldn’t be a game though. Does anyone else relate ? How do I just begin to move on and retrain my brain and make it realize he’s not for me???