Why am I still stuck?, is a question that I’m asked pretty much every day by people who find it difficult to move past somebody or something not living up to their hopes and expectations. They are gutted by disappointment and struggling to keep their head above water as they struggle against the tide of self-criticism and blame.
Sometimes as humans, we fall into the trap of feeling entitled to not be disappointed. We set our hearts on something or we work out, even if it’s subconsciously, a set of conditions under which we feel that we will be ‘OK’ or where we’ll ‘win’. If we feel that we have met these conditions and yet our desires have not been realised, we feel wronged. We feel a pervasive sense of injustice.
It’s not fair!
- We expect people to ‘act right’ even if it’s not their typical rule of behaviour.
- We expect people to express remorse when they wrong us, to feel suitably bad about the discomfort they have caused us, and to reflect all of this in their subsequent treatment of us. We expect that they will not repeat the very thing that they know caused a problem.
- We expect people to know that we have been through so much that surely we should be cut some slack or rewarded.
- We expect that because our parent(s) inadequately parented us and said and did certain things that set up a pattern of us being sensitive to conflict, criticism, rejection or disappointment, that they should either want to make it up to us and fill that void or that somebody else [that brings out similar feelings in us] should do it instead.
- We expect to be paid back for our people pleasing which is the equivalent of creating a debt and expecting others to pay it off.
- We expect that if we feel intensely about something that it should be matched with the outcome.
- We expect not to be ‘rejected’ if we have gone to the trouble of accepting the unacceptable.
It’s not fair!
This is not what we predicted.
When we are honest with ourselves, we can acknowledge that our perception of what makes the ‘conditions’ for a successful outcome, is based on our beliefs about what we feel that we and others ‘should’ do. These are the rules that aren’t really rules.
We edit and shave ourselves down and don’t truly relax and just be, because we are always on alert for cues that we are OK and ‘winning’.
That’s why when we go to such lengths to manage the potential for conflict, criticism, disappointment and rejection and then we still end up not feeling “good enough” and ultimately experience the gap between reality and our hopes and expectations, we feel so wounded by the injustice of it all.
We wonder, What the hell do I need to do to be OK? What do I need to do to finally win at this game of life?
And of course, because we are so set on our perception of what we’re entitled to when certain conditions are met, when we’re disappointed, we feel not OK and that we are losing.
We feel stuck because we just cannot understand what went wrong. We had a map; we had a plan and we followed the route and the instructions to the letter – why the frick didn’t we end up at the destination? Or, how come we got there and yet it doesn’t feel like how it’s ‘supposed’ to?
It can feel even worse when we copy somebody else or do what they told us that we had to do in order to be accepted and yet we’re still disappointed.
It’s not fair!
To accept that we may be using the wrong map and plan is terrifying because then, instead of focusing on the injustice, we’re having to acknowledge the flaw in our thinking. We have to acknowledge that we misjudged things and that we have some learning and growing to do, and this may have very painful associations for us.
Feeling stuck may be exacerbated if we keep using that same map and plan in an effort to generate a different result.
We feel its unfair and then, because we fear admitting that the way that we’re going about things is off, eventually we determine that the way in which we see things and are going about stuff is “right” it’s just that there’s something “wrong” with us and/or them. We’re “not good enough” and/or they are to blame for failing to be and do as we hoped or they’d inferred/promised.
Life isn’t fair in the sense of, there aren’t 7 billion people or so keeping tabs of who’s had what pain, who are the goodies and the baddies and then directing ‘the good’ and ‘the bad’ stuff at those who deserve it.
A natural reaction to trauma is to wonder, What did I do to deserve this? but to continue with it is to clobber us over the head with shame and a lack of self-compassion. This happens when we feed us with judgements about where we think we caused it. Even if we were The Most Perfect Person On Earth TM, we’d still experience disappointment.
If we want to break the cycle of the circular thinking, obsessing, and ruminating that is causing us to feel stuck, we have to, after we acknowledge the unfairness of whatever happened, also recognise the unfair way in which we are treating and regarding ourselves.
It’s not fair that certain things have happened but it’s also not fair to persecute you or to chain yourself to somebody and your desired outcome just so that you can make them ‘pay up’. It’s not fair to put your life on hold, to exclude you from your friendships and other close connections, to compare you, to use this It’s not fair train of thought as a way of procrastinating so that you can avoid what you feel is a bigger pain and/or avoid having to take action. It’s not fair to continue raking over it just so that you can feel purposeful. It’s not fair to hope that it happens to someone else or to wish that you could be in charge of discharging karma (this doesn’t happen on your beat).
We also have to acknowledge that getting hurt is horrible but that if we pursue or continue with a toxic situation, even if we have “good intentions”, the natural consequence is to get hurt and disappointed.
Disappointment is a pain in the bum and then some but, it’s there to show us where we stand with something or someone. It’s there to show us where we need to adjust our thinking and attitude. It’s there to highlight that maybe the plan we had needs some adjustment or to be scrapped so that we can approach with fresh thinking. It’s there, when we continue to repeat patterns, to show us that it’s not working and it will show up in bigger and more painful ways until we heed it. This in itself tells us, not where we can avoid disappointment but where we can learn and grow so that it doesn’t grip, distort, or destroy us. We’ll hurt but we’ll gradually have the perspective to bounce back.
Some of our greatest disappointments come, not just from people not living up to the picture that we had in our mind but from us not getting to realise the hopes and expectations that we had for ourselves as a result. It’s unrealistic to expect to dodge disappointment but when our conditions for being OK are based on treating ourselves with love, care, trust, and respect, we are no longer at the mercy of relying on precarious and external conditions for our self-esteem. We feel in command of us and we stop feeling stuck.
Your thoughts?
Add to favorites
Dear Nat, thank you again for another great post. I can’t seem to get out of stuck and go from forgiveness to anger to stuck. Keep staying in the same loop. I would be very grateful if you could post something to help get out of stuck and stop the wanting to make contact. I have read most of your posts and purchased a book from your website about letting go, It is very hard when you really do love someone to just let it all go. With many thanks.xx
Hello Rebecca regarding stopping the wanting to make contact – look at Natalies Non Contact rules and try positive displacement activities – set up a number of easy things to go to immediately every time you get this ‘wanting to make contact’ self destructive thought, things that are loving good things for you to do instead and if you still feel the same way after? try something else instead, until the thought is replaced by something else – I would say ‘No’ or ‘stop’ out loud if they came in my head, I used writing out my feelings or reading an old post on BR/following posts through on the pink word links until the ex-thought had well and truly gone and thought had come back to me.
Change ex’s names in your mobile phone to things like ‘devil or no-go’ etc…to stop temptation and give your memory a jolt after you’ve forgotten why you shouldn’t go there and are convincing yourself you should, get rid of their email addresses entirely on your systems if you don’t work with them/parent with them, never allow yourself to accidently be near where they live… or are… or may be going – in reality and online – even if you are feeling great – ESPECIALLY if you are feeling great – and eventually when you do the work on yourself, like listing why they were actually bad for you and what qualities and values you are really looking for in a mate in reality – then you will find it goes away and one day you will wake up not thinking of them at all and you’ve found yourself again. Start by doing it for an hour, or a day, then a week, a month….
It is much harder, not, giving up someone you think you love who you are no longer going out with. Its an illusion that it is love – love doesn’t make you feel the pain that you are now feeling, no matter what the circumstances are/were and you deserve to feel better than you feel now….
Oh and if you are?… stop watching romantic or rom-com films – a strict diet of good comedies from now on. Time to get busy – you have a job to do – your job now is to contact your lost self – you haven’t time to contact him and there is no relationship with anyone until you achieve and maintain that. Good Luck I promise you it will get better – love yourself – he’s not worth a hair on your head – let alone your precious time.
Thank you Natalie. This is an excellent post! It really has touched my heart. This has been my train of thought today. After my morning workout-I thought who are you not to face disappointment. I thought about all the wonderful things that are going right in my LIFE. And I thought you can’t have it all there are disappointments but you have to make sure you are framing your story the right way.
I have decided to watch the stories I am telling myself on a daily basis because they are bringing me down to my knees. I know it takes time to reprogram these stories , but I believe I can do this. I am NOT going to live this way anymore. If I continue to say to myself you will never meet anyone decent. Then this is what I believe and it is reflected in everything I do.
Imagine this what “If Cinderella had told herself that her stepmother and stepsisters had all the power, and she was going to be a scullery maid forever, would she even have wanted to go to that ball? Not a chance! She’d have known no prince would look at a scullery maid. She’d have sat by the kitchen fire moaning that she had nothing, “Just these rags and cinders and no chance ever to change it.”
But Cinderella wanted so badly to go to the ball that she conjured for herself a fairy godmother who could work the miracle of the mice and the pumpkin and the gorgeous dress.”
I am conjuring up images of me laughing and happy again. I can visualize it. Say Something we have to get back into the game of LIFE.
My feet are planted on solid ground- I am the only one responsible for my happiness and no matter what cards are dealt to me I get to decide how I will react- I am the master of MY STORY. I have had a MAJOR shift in my attitude and it comes from knowing that I am in charge of writing my own story. I always did before this tsunami hit me. I am going to change my story from this day FORWARD.
Thank you to every person who has supported me here. It means so much. Say Something things can change for us. BELIEVE IT.
MJ,
You are such a sweet, thoughtful person and you’re getting yourself unstuck and onward! Heart of gold. Thank you so much for every bit of support and all the kind words you’ve had for me.
As far as fairy-tales, I was lured into the land of make-believe (Grimm style) and I never want to go back. Maybe that’s where I’m still stuck. I don’t know when it’s ‘fair’ to expect honesty. Never?
I’ve never felt entitled, but I’ve had hope. Right now I’m not sure that anything I’m trying is working and I think maybe the disappointment of putting in so much thought, time, emotion, and effort and still feeling crappy and not sleeping well for a year is too much right now. I know there’s a difference between activity and productivity. I’ve been NC, I have a therapist, I’ve read as much as I can, I’ve tried distraction techniques and mindfulness exercises. I’ve written unsent letters. I’ve taken up new interests, I’ve tried to maintain normalcy. And I still cry everyday. It’s not right. Anyhow I think for a few days I’ll just read BR and refrain from commenting. (Probably 10,000 + people feeling relieved to read that).
So MJ, I’m going to have my coffee in the AM, read how you’re kicking butt, and cheer you on, but silently for a little bit. I don’t want you to think I disappeared, I’m still here, and I’ll check back in soon. I want to have something GOOD to say for myself and it scares me so much that I don’t.
I see you doing it though! Keep going! Your positive energy radiates. You.are.doing.it!!!!
🙂
Hi Say Something,
Thank you for your note and for not vanishing on me without saying a word (so thoughtful). I understand. Relax and find peace.
This week Unfolding gently said this to us (I appreciate her respectful tone and powerful message):
You are still so extremely over committed to someone who showed you that there are not worth your time, thoughts and feelings. Why do you keep investing in that place of pain?
Another thought from her post that Natalie says:
“There is no point in going on about anything that you are not experiencing the positive results of”!
I ask myself the question Unfolding ask like this – Why am I investing so much energy into someone (proven liar and cheat) who a proven they are not worth MY TIME? This has jolted me right back to earth. I do not have anymore time to give this foolishness.
Please over coffee or when you have some quiet to read this article:
http://www.rockyourday.com/how-to-stop-telling-your-sad-sad-story/
I have been reading this along with James Allen and this has brought me some PEACE. It is along the same lines of this post- about things not being fair-disappointments. I have a new story and a new outlook. I cant change overnight but I am giving it 100% EVERYDAY.
Yep I didn’t get the outcome that I had hoped for but I am glad that I didn’t (still disappointed because the man was never who he claimed to be) because I would have been D-I -V-O-R-C-E-D eventually. So, I will take this disappointment over that. Party of one- I am going to enjoy my life and what I have learned is PRICELESS. I am much wiser moving forward.
Find some little way to be happy Say Something.
MJ
Say Something,
Try really hard to create a new story. Join Meet Up and go do things with other new people. Go home and cry afterward if you need to, then get up and go do another Meet Up or take a class on pottery, art, wine making, whatever. Do something you’ve never done before or explore something you feel some kind of passion for. Create new patterns and habits. It may feel hollow at first, but you keep going, keep making new stories for yourself until they replace the one that still hurts so much. If you go two minutes today instead of one minute without thinking about your old story, then that is a victory. A small one, but lots of tiny victories will give way to a new story developing. I know after my postings about online liar, I probably seem like the worst person to give advice, but I went through similar to what you describing about 4 years ago and I had to force myself to take actions even when I didn’t feel like it. It was a slow process. Create a new story.
Mary Jane,
Good for you. Sometimes we get this breath of fresh air in the midst of so much darkness. That is healing. Eventually the light fresh air overtakes the darkness, until you wake up one day and realize the darkness has faded. Sending you encouragement.
Selkie,
Give yourself some self love. You offer good advice here on BR. I love BR it has been a place of healing for me. I am starting over and I have to make new friends. I appreciate the virtual support as I try to build friends in my community.
If you get a chance read the story that I sent Say Something. Thank you for laying out a strategy for Say Something. It is valuable. I m thinking along the same lines. Just keep doing a little something and move forward. Say Something I m out here pulling for you. I want you to be happy again. I am not sitting in the house on weekends anymore. I went to one meet up and I will go to more. Selkie think peaceful thoughts and keep moving forward. You are going to be fine.
HUGS,
MJ
Hi Say Something,
Some helpful tips for creating peace of mind.
http://tinybuddha.com/blog/40-ways-to-create-peace-of-mind/
This article reminds me of an excellent point….just because someone did not feel the same feelings as I did does not make them a bad person. Being disappointed does not mean I have been wronged. It just means we weren’t on the same page. While unfortunate for me, this is not cause to trash my ex. I need to get over my own disappointment because it was me who had all of the future hopes, expectations, and plans – and I didn’t even let him in on those.
If I could have a loving, trusting, caring AND romantic relationship with myself, that would work. But romance is not an independent sport.
This post was the medicine I needed. It’s helped me a lot. Thank you Natalie.
It also made me laugh at myself just a little, seeing so much of what I do in this post. Sometimes, I am so freaking emotionally dramatic when love goes wrong, it ends up being like an episode of a soap opera. I tend to lose control of my emotions, thoughts and my rationality, I guess you could say I panic, then I try to control everything around me, and most of all, the source of the pain so that I can stop anymore pain from happening. I try to control the uncontrollable, like how the person who hurt me thinks, how they act, what they will do next. And no, it never works. Gosh, the idea of just tossing that need to control the painful and disappointing actions of someone else into the wind and seeing where things land without trying to force a better outcome sounds so much easier. I could just let go of them and let them be who they are. I could accept the pain that was happening, see the situation for what it is and deal with it, and not fuel the whole freaking mess by overcompensating and manipulating them into caring.
“We expect people to express remorse when they wrong us, to feel suitably bad about the discomfort they have caused us, and to reflect all of this in their subsequent treatment of us. We expect that they will not repeat the very thing that they know caused a problem.”
I am SOOOO guilty of this. While I think it’s normal to feel like this to a degree and to HOPE someone will have enough remorse for being rotten to not do it again, it’s knowing when to cut your losses and face reality of who they are and getting your life back in order that is critical. I wallow in the mud, ‘poor me poor me, see what you’ve done’. They don’t care. It is attempting emotional blackmail on someone who obviously doesn’t care about our pain to begin with. I know this, I do, but I lose my mind sometimes when I feel really hurt. It all gets lost, but I see it pretty clear right now.
*hug* I guilty of this too. The what did I do to deserve this mentality.. Being overly emotionally dramatic. .. Even if the other party apologises repeatedly, it still doesn’t stifle or appease the pain in any way..
Hugs and kisses to all, may we shoulder on in our journey to get out of stuck.
Selkie,
I love your post with that self-awareness towards your own behavior. I know it is so easy to feel our feelings and get hooked and then if it doesn’t go well, boy, we would deserve differently. And we do, but as long as this healthy self-love and taking care of own values and integrity, it will be tricky- I don’t think its going to happen otherwise (at least it did not for me when I could not Would! not take myself out of that staring role of my own dramas!!!) I realize now how debilitating that is, because I was feeding the wrong reward system for myself…I want to say you made such amazing progress but that sounds very judgmental and I don’t think that we arrive at a certain state of mind and feelings and then -boom- we got it and the Prince will appear,
but I think being open to what we don’t understand about ourselves and figuring it out going forward is key and you are there! Congratulations!! There are only good things to come, although you might still have to kiss a few more frogs 🙂
Take good care,
Unfolding
So true! Take ourselves out of the staring role of our soap dramas!!
Excellent post Natalie! And I love your comment Mary Jane. It is hard to get past disappointment, but like most difficult things in life, as we get through them, we grow. And we learn. I hate that that’s the end result of all my struggle, but it is true that when we get to this stage it feels good.
I wish that some of my growing and learning had happened earlier in life. If I had learnt these lesson and taken charge of my life and my happiness earlier, I wouldn’t have set myself up with a life I wasn’t fully happy with and gotten myself into a painful situation. But you know what? I’m not dead yet. There is still lots of time to create a beautiful life with the tools and knowledge we have now. But we have to let go .. I have to keep letting go .. Of pain, of disappointment, of the story we told ourselves about ourselves and what we are entitled to and about life and what it should look like. Everytime I feel myself wallowing, I remind myself that I need to create a new story. Everyday I am working on this.
I still haven’t found a new job yet (narrow field), but I have been applying and I know the right job will come to me at the right time. In the meantime, I’ve done everything I can to avoid exMM at work and it has really worked (healing-wise). I have been 3 months NC (3 months!!) and have only seen him in the halls once or twice in passing from a distance. I am feeling so much better and while I sometimes still slip into a sad state of feeling really disappointed things turned out the way they did and angry at him for the things he said and did and for not loving me enough, I just keep trying to come back to my new story, where I’ve grown and healed and have created the most beautiful life imaginable.
Sometimes I still see his name places, like a sign or someone calling it out at another person, and I get this crazy feeling like maybe it’s a sign that things will all work out one day and that we’ll end up together. And then I remember that that sounds insane.. Come back to earth Leanne! You don’t even want to be with this man anyways. That kind of thing frustrates me, but I am trying to move past that now. And I am also really trying to kick my drinking habit. Does anyone else struggle with this? I’m worried I’m becoming an alcoholic and I really dont want to. It’s not about him anymore, I’ve just gotten into this habit of drinking to relax and my tolerance has gone way up now. But this is really not what I want in moving on from this disappointment. It’s a big piece of the new story that I don’t want and am trying to get past.
Otherwise, life is good. It feels like I was swimming upstream in a crazy, wild and dangerous river. But I made it through the rough part and now I am drifting through a peaceful river. It feels so good! And I know it is leading somewhere amazing.
I loved the Cinderella reference.. It’s silly but I saw the new Disney movie in March when I was still really struggling with my situation and I really took inspiration from it. It’s just a kids show, but I remember coming away with hope and the message really rang true with me: be kind and have courage. And most of all yes, keep showing up! For your life. Good things are coming for us if we believe (sometimes we just have to have courage and faith for longer than we like).
Thanks Nat for this wonderful post.
Yay Leanne! You have come so far. I am proud of you for sticking with it.
Hi Leeanne,
I hope that you find a new job soon. I think it will take you away from seeing that AC. You deserve better. Don’t give up on yourself. Keep trying everyday and block him out. Focus on YOU. I am going to see Cinderella (checked and it is still playing). Keep creating your new story-don’t stop till you have the change you want.
MJ
I am so pleased for you Leanne! – wow you have come such a long way in three months!!! Really really good. I don’t know much about drinking alot but I have realised I have other addictions other than attempting to achieve love with people who aren’t emotionally available and I am addressing them one by one at the minute when I’m ready and able using similar strategies such as BR – like talking about worries/feelings with people I can really trust, working out realistic strategies to help etc… and I know being happy and engaged in things I love doing tends to help first of all above everything. Sorry I can’t help more but maybe others can? Good Luck and best wishes to you for your exciting new future.
I don’t even know where to begin ..stuck is not just a word .. It is my life. Had an affair 19 years ago ( not proud of it but it happened) years of friendship talking feeling “high” was all great until jealousy too over.. And oh how powerful can that be. We argued finished got back together time and time again.. We basically out out marriage and kids on hold and kept this secret going for years.. Stopped socializing with friends and family so as not to hurt the other.. Then in the past few years the relationship has gone downhill but because of this deep connection we can’t seem to be together or be apart.
For a while he started meeting new people.. Going out spending a lot of time with other female friends.. Making me ill with jealousy and made me pull away from living.. I don’t go out I’m angry negative just feel like at taking the world. So off and on in the same loop we continue . Arguments are getting nasty and painful.. But we are still connected with this thin line between us. Until now.. He has a new friend ( she is married with kids) he swears they are good close friends.. He is at hers most days, they do things together, shopping, trips with her kids ( they call him granpa !!!!?!?!) he calls her texts her, organized community parties together .. Basically he does everything with her that he can’t do with me ( cos we are a secret) and I am sick to my stomach with jealousy.she lives 50 metres from my house .. I see his car there .. I can hear them laughing .. I hear from others how they are always together and what they are doing .. I snapped .. Cried screamed pushed him and threw stones at him… I am so hurt that he does this infront of my face. I can’t escape them.
I told him I can’t take it.. It is either her or me .. And after 19 years he chose his friendship with her.
I’m so down and alone.. Become so negative and nasty .. I have turned into this awful bitter person.
I download hyonosis treatments, been to hypnotherapy 3 or 4 times .. Bought books ( also yours ) but I can’t move on. I am stuck.. I don’t know what is keeping this thread between us.. He causes me so much pain and I can’t escape it.. It’s infront of my eyes.. Mutual friends talk about them so I hear other things ( they don’t know out past) it’s just all got too much.
NC is sooo hard. I blocked all social networking. Stopped purposely passing to see where his car is.. Tried to stop this obsession but it is so hard. He is happy continuing his life with his new “friends” and I have been left behind .. Alone disappointed angry bitter and stuck in a loop I can’t see any way out
Help me please .. I’m at a loss 🙁
Is there a real thread between you? Then the thread thing is an illusion and YOU are going to have to break the illusion before you can start to heal – but as you are aware you have been in this mess, avoiding it a long time and the hurt and pain is bad at the moment, and you fear you cannot deal with it for the better?…
what you don’t know is – the past – that WAS the bad time/not good fearful time – NOW is when you can finally do things to get better, feel better and grow and thrive and feel what you deserved all along. Real love not an illusion.
Now you have the real chance of your life – no matter what has happened or what you have done – possibly unlike the others in this sad story from your past – you have already found BR and posted here and if you keep up the work – for yourself – you are well on your way to re-finding your true self….best wishes to you.
Thank you so much .. You really have made me stop and think.
There is no thread.. It snapped a long long time ago.
I am so glad I found BR
Best wishes to you and thank you
Kristy,
Where’s your husband and kids during all this. Doesn’t your husband see that something is wrong, what kind of relationship do you have with your husband?
Thanks so much for this post, Nat!
Interrupting resentful and analytical thoughts so I can fill my mind, and life, with more positive things. There’s only so much knowledge can do, and then it’s time to focus on the habits and draw clear boundary lines for OUR behavior.
I am kind of a mess right now. My friend (yes really my friend and not me) had dated a guy who was a handsome college student. He sweetly pursued her and led her to believe he was one of the good ones.
He got what he wanted from her and disappeared. He put so much “work” into being the nice, attentive guy so that he’d come up smelling of roses even after he stood her up more than once.
She isn’t even angry. She is bewildered and tired. I am angry. This guy gets out not having to face any of the consequences of his slimy behavior. After finding this out, I became sick to my stomach with a huge headache.
Reeks of my ex. These men carelessly use women then discard of them at their leisure and they truly believe themselves to be the good guys…
Wolves in sheep’s clothing are the worst. At least the outright obnoxious players are more honest.
I know there are good men out there but GEEZ does there ever seem to be a whole hell of a lot of dodgy ones!
It just gets to me the goody goody type that are basically
Nasty people underneath .. But after a breakup they hold
Their head up high as if they had nothing to do with it
Your friend ( we all ) deserve better x
Yes we are no longer naive.
I can so relate to this too. One of the last guys I went out acted very excited to go out with me. We had some good conversations beforehand and he asked a lot of good questions about how I saw things in life. On the date (where I asked for something low key) he went into seductionmode – flowers, deep talks, dinner, etc. then the next day brings up sex. As soon as I respond that I need to really know a guy before I have sex he disappears. I get one text that he’s been swamped at work and then crickets. I know Natalie says people unfold… So true. I know exactly what kind of guy he is now and won’t waste anymore time on that dead end. I just found it strange the amount of effort when he was after sex. I usually see the sex guys give a lot less upfront.
Kirsty,
I definitely teared up reading your account of this deeply painful situation.
I don’t even know you and I wish I could hold you and make the pain go away (a weird thing to say I know but that’s honestly how I feel/ & I am female and definitely not hitting on you; I clarify this because there were so many wolves in the corner ready and waiting to pounce when I was in as vulnerable state as you after the ex).
Three years ago I was in so much pain I couldn’t see straight let alone function. I barely ate and was headed to the grave had I not pulled myself up.
I was more of a plaything to my ex than anything…just something to mildly entertain him. I loved him deeply. He used me & moved on within days after I stood up for myself. Three years later I still don’t trust men. But I am better and I don’t fall for the shady ones anymore.
I take care of me. You must take care of you too.
Sometimes we feel deeply for those that can do callous things and feel nothing. We must choose ourselves and stay away from these people. We must not engage them in any way. We have that right. Everyone does.
My advice to you: Initiate and stick to No Contact no matter how difficult or how bad it hurts. Even if he contacts you (he would do this to regain power and keep you as an option/not because he cares; your deep connection with him is built on toxicity).
Follow all of Nat’s advice on the matter (hers is the best). There is not a single human I’d say that about, especially in regards to dating, but she is the best.
Read her books. Buy her online book on Obsession (something I need to get around to too). She won’t lead you astray, but it won’t be easy. If you commit to No Contact, you will have a better life.
Also, I do not recommend casual sex. It always made things worse for me in any time and every aspect of my life. Nat & I may differ a bit on this, but that is really the only thing I can think of.
Take Care, Godspeed, and Onwards.
XX Peanut
thank you so much for caring, your reply means so much to me and has really made me think. I know that we all talk to ourselves and we all know what we should and shoudnt do but when you hear it from someone else, someone who also has “been there” suddenly you see it differently.
I was doing well with the No contact rule… ignored him when he passed by me in the car, dont go to see where his car is etc..then the other night he sent me an email. it was so cruel…
” spend your time with those who love you unconditionaly and dont waste your time on those who only love you when their conditions are met”
in other words… she is the one he is spending time with and he is not wasting time on me
so WHY send the email !!!! and stupid me replied so what you said it so true, power, checking to see im “still there”
so its back to NC, i have to succeed ( as difficult as it is when we all live so close)
thanks for being there xx
in other words…HE is an extremely controlling, cruel and dangerous man who only loves conditionally himself – AND knows it – AND RUBS YOUR FACE IN IT!!!!
Delete this man from your life!!!! immediately!
His email address, phone number etc…he has chosen to no longer exist – his business is no longer your business – your illusion of him is being well and truly broken by him – the man he really is – is completely cruel and a really really dangerous person to be around emotionally or vulnerably – which we all know IS completely required for any relationship.
Thank YOU! for writing on here!! – others will see your posts – as ours – and identify or learn from them and find ways to get better relationships.
Kirsty,
Thats a long time to be living without integrity. Sounds like its an ‘addiction’ and Im speaking from experience.
We allow people to have such a hold on us (the wrong ones), and we do things that are just as wrong, sneaking around, obsessing, jealousy, having secret affairs. We may want someone and for all the wrong reasons. He may be wrong, but take a closer look in the mirror.
Its not ‘mature’ and its not ‘love’. The more you slowly remove yourself from that dark situation, light will begin to come in. If you want it. Only if you truly want to stop the suffering you’re putting yourself (and those closest to you) through.
Whether its the sex that keeps you obsessed with this man, attraction… Whatever IT is that keeps you kuckoo for Cocoa Puffs over this one person, its not love. No matter how much you want it to be, its not. He is not a good man, by any means.
To remove yourself from this toxicity, because its gone on for so long, will feel like its the fight of your life. Because it is. Its no different then being addicted to Heroine. Or any other drug that temporarily gives you that ‘high’ and then throws you into a downward spiral.
You are good enough. Stop throwing yourself down and putting yourself in the line of fire. His behavior and what he does thats upsetting you, isn’t about you.
You’ve been alone. This guy hasn’t been there for you to begin with. One of the most painful yet eye-opening experiences is being 100% responsible for where you are right now. We are all 100% responsible, for our reactions, circumstances, our feelings and where we are in life.
He’s out making new friends, etc., because he doesn’t care. And you care too much, you’re placing your care where it doesn’t belong and its killing you. Love is not pain.
What we resist, persists. You have to get real honest with yourself. You want someone thats not meant for you and its creating havoc in your life.
It will be hard to cut it off and walk away. Very hard. Are you willing to go through that? So you can stop this selfish, childish game? And I say that, because thats what it is. And not just that, its an addiction. Its vert difficult to let go, but let me tell you… Once you get real honest with yourself, and do let go, it’ll be the best decision you ever made. I promise.
This ‘connection’ obviously isn’t a good one. We try and use ‘connection’ as some… Mystical-it-must-be-fate-and-meant-to-be. The “connection”… It plays on your weaknesses. It brings out your weaknesses and everything you believe isn’t “good enough” about you.
Im not saying there wasn’t love present at times, or that you don’t love/like things about him. Its okay that you do. But acknowledge it, and put it away in an imaginary box somewhere, as you would put a box or photo album of pictures away in your storage. Don’t deny that you loved him, theres nothing wrong with that. But the behaviors you’re both displaying, is toxic. And…its time. Its been way past the expiration date.
“Help me, please”. Honey, no one can help you… You need to help yourself out of this one. Any advice given to you… Are you willing to not only listen to it, but take that advice? If you truly want help? And not make excuses to disregard it?
You will begin to feel empowered when you start stepping away from it. Expect and accept it will not be easy. You are going to go through every emotion. You’re going to have to accept it will take time and patience and there is a reward at the end.
I was in a similar situation for many years. I regret that I allowed one person (who when we step away from them, realize.. Umm… They’re not all that great. We make them greater then they actually are, in our minds because we cant see anything or anyone else, we’re too obsessed) to dominate my life. Think about that. Your life – if you have kids. Their life. Its a shame. A real shame.
The best thing I did for myself. Seems so darn simple,…. Make a decision.
Thats it. Make a decision. If you want to keep torturing yourself and the people closest to you, stay where you’re at and accept you will continue to go through the same, accept that he will continue to treat you the same. Don’t expect him to change and feel sympathy for you. Accept that you’re expecting from an unlikely source, you know the pattern. Its been 19 years. Accept its been a messy obsession. Make the decision to either say ‘no more’ or ‘yes, please… I want to keep throwing my life away and keep hurting myself and those close to me.’
You have two choices. Pick one. Choice #1 is the unknown and you can create whatever kind of life you want. (Yes, really)
Choice #2, well… You already know what you’re getting. Its a dead end.
I hope you choose ‘you’ in the end, good luck, xo
Demke,Thank you. Amen to the/your truth which has also been mine.
…….
This is so on the ball Natalie. One of the best yet encouraging us to honestly self reflect and access our own agency, go on the ultimate BS diet – the one where we stop BSsing ourselves about ourselves.
Experiencing being stuck people? Honestly converse with yourself then make a decision (action). Yes, a real and honest conversation with yourself. Distinguish the excuses, the fantasy, your story, your imagined image in others’ eyes, your self image and toxic self pity from self compassion and self acceptance. Learn what it means to love, care, trust and respect yourself. Take a leap and make a decision. Self care, self trust and self respect together make up self love. Begin by esteeming yourself in action, a little bit every day and feel your foundations begin to take root.
Taking a decision and COMMITTING to it is the first step to getting out of self sabotaging, unloving and very uncaring(to ourselves) and self-disrespectfulstuckness. Then it’s the little daily actions that honour that commitment, even just to begin by catching obsessive/habitual thoughts(aka a ‘story’ that has become a habit and taken on it’s own reality in fantasy) and not acting on the thought by allowing the next habitual thought or the usual habitual action. It’s the commitment to ourselves that counts – can be hard but it feels good when I can feel the diff between being EA with myself and the times when I’m not. I like being EA NOW, MUCH BETTER THAN CIRCULAR STORY. Disappointments still happen and yes they are still disappointing but the diff is in the time spent lingering in the mouse wheel (aka being EU to myself).
lizzp,
so so true, could not have said it better!! Great insight!
Demke,
I love the advice you have given. So much of what I know is reinforced here. I have to help myself. NO ONE ELSE CAN GET ME OUT OF THIS BUT ME.
You said, “That’s it. Make a decision. If you want to keep torturing yourself and the people closest to you, stay where you’re at and accept you will continue to go through the same,”
I have been torturing myself for sure. No more. I am FREE. Time to start over and live. Watched half of Still Alice last night. The plight of that fictional character demonstrates how quick life can change. Why should I remain in pain? I am acting as if my life has no expiration date. I have decided that my energy is devoted to self love and not torture.
If I had devoted half of my energy to self love my abs would be chiseled and I mean ch ch chiseled (lol). I have more important things to devote my energy to. SMILE.
MJ
Kirsty, I dont fully understand the story. So you’re still married? And have had a 19 year on-off secret relationship? I assume its not just an ’emotional affair’ because then you wouldn’t have to keep it so secret. You mention the drama of it, and that you’ve put life, family, friends, children, on the back burner for all this time.
I get the whole ‘I’m in so much pain’ but — this is self-inflicted pain. I agree with Demke, there has to be a moment where you are ready to take responsibility and that is the only time that advice will make sense. Till then whatever anyone says won’t help you because we won’t be validating your pain and thats what you seem to want – that we validate the story. You’re stuck in the story. It seems like your story is about how life has happened to you (exactly Natalie’s post, you seem to think IT was so unfair), and not how you have created this outcome. This isn’t about him. He’s doing what is best for him. He likes affairs with married women, good for him. By definition, affairs have no rules – you are expecting him to behave to rules when you are in one of those relationships that according to society has no basis for decency attached to it by default.
Thats a lot of drama for people your age (I assume you’re somewhere above 40?). Also, you’re surprised, shocked, whatever that those kids call him grandpa – why??? What does it have to do with you? Why is it shocking? How is THAT more shocking than the fact that you have had a 19 year drama filled affair that has eaten you up inside and most likely affected everyone around you but the only thing that really gets your goat is this fact that he has found someone else to be with?
I dont suggest religion to anyone, not having anything to do with it myself. But I think what you might need is to give up all your stories, accept, and feel compassion, love, for everyone, forgive yourself for the mess you have created. Sometimes religion can help with that. Accept the anger that people have had against you as you were absent from their lives while you thought only of yourself. THAT is acceptance – you dont have to make it up to them, one can’t really make up for the past, you can’t make up for 19 years, but you can change things now, so that in 11 years, you have had 11 great years rather than having to make up for 30 years of neglecting yourself and others. You have to let go of all those stories, 19 years of mistaken stories, and inauthentic actions.
The reason you can’t move on, is because you can’t yet forgive yourself, and you dont want to forgive yourself because that means taking responsibility, acknowledging that you created this. ANd you’re not ready yet to take responsibility for the story of 19 years of pain. I understand. Its hard to see that in black and white. We create our lives.
He is irrelevant, this is all about you.
NC is not ‘soooo hard’ – you’ve had children, how can this be harder than childbirth? We need to have perspective here!!
One might wonder how to take responsibility without being crushed by self-blame, and there is a way, and you have to find that way. Taking responsibility is step one.
Yes, it hurts to see his car down the street. My heart jumps every time ex-EU that I dont even care about sends an email to our social email group. So I can’t imagine your anxiety after 19 years of unrequited love. But remember, this is your choice. Every minute of our lives is our choice. And definitely – 19 years is your choice. The first year you might have been confused, the second year, you might have struggled to cut contact – but 19 years while you were married and he had made no promises… thats a choice.
WOW WOW WOW…. it is the first time i have ever written to anything about what im going through and i am so touched with the feedback.
you are an angel, you make so much sense and you came to me.
I know it is an obsession and i know its not love. once upon a time it was, like most romances. but not any more and i know that. I cant even tell you what im hanging on too, memories maybe,or the fact that i lost. He was my world and i was stupid enough to pull myself away from MY life leaving me empty inside.
what you say is so true we are all responsible 100% for our reactions, circumstances, our feelings and where we are in life.
the bubble i lived in with my “best friend, “my soul mate” is just what it is… a bubble. and yes you are right, he doesnt care but he knows so well how to play with my weaknesses.
You have given me so much to think about, you have shown me that WHEN i make my decision there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
my obsession-addiction is only hurting me, i have backed out of life while he is out enjoying it
thank you so much for being there xx
Demke this is brilliant! – choose him or yourself – there is no third option of together – its just you or him.
Kirsty,
It is extremely courageous to ask for help and there are people who can and will help you.
Such a timely post. Thank you so much. I needed to hear all this.
Once again, hiting the nail on the head. I recently went through a breakup and have managed to get myself back to where I was before I met him (thanks in part to your great articles but also because I worked on myself….gotta ackowledge it don’t I). This article actually hits home more for my mother than for myself. She’s been stuck for a few years now and it’s been really hard to bring her out of her self deprecating attitude. You see she was in a very long relationship with a very bad person who completly destroyed her inside. She doesn’t trust anyone anymore and has even managed to alienate the few friends she had. The relationship with this guy ended 6 years ago but she’s still very much raw from it because in her eyes he’s got everything good in life and she has nothing. And, well, It’s not fair. And she can’t get out of this feeling she has that she works so hard to get to that proverbial “happy ending” but the world is against her and she sees none of the positive stuff. I love her, don’t get me wrong, but it’s really hard to deal with. To her, my ideas on how to deal with this are brushed off as silly since, I’m her daughter and so I haven’t lived enough to understand. You see when she was my age, she wasn’t like that. She’s at the bottom of a dark hole and she’s looking down at the ground instead of looking at the light above, trying to figure out new ways to climb. I sent her this article. I hope it helps her realise that, yes the world is not fair and maybe her ex will never get the Karma he deserves for hurting her and yes, she may not be where she thought she would be by now but maybe if she approaches the situation differently, maybe life will finally go her way. I really wish she was happy. She does deserve it.
Say,
I heard the hurt in an earlier post from you (you talked about your flaws). It is similar to thoughts I had about REJECTION. You more than good enough. The right person will come along. I am not expecting a response I know you are taking a vacation (smile). I want to make sure you are taking care of yourself.
Natalie says:
Instead of feeling crap about everything you didn’t get that you think you were entitled to – remember who they were and why it’s over. If there’s some good in there, great, but if what you’re mourning is the loss of what didn’t happen, don’t ‘waste’ your life by devoting it to taking up pain and rejection solitude as a vocation.
Natalie’s Article
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/why-avoiding-rejection-actually-opens-you-up-to-more-why-its-not-always-rejection/
HUGS,
MJ
I agree with everyone’s insight. From my own experience, no contact was the essential first step to enable the fog to lift and see things as they really were. It was the most difficult thing I ever undertook in my life. I loved him like crazy but I was miserable. I slipped up a few times, initiating contact to say merry xmas or respond yo a text, but I’d feel the adverse effects from the setbacks, how I’d keep thinking of him and making excuses for his behavior, thinking I was being too hard on him. The toxicity of the dynamic with him, even with very limited interactions, was so damaging to my feelings of self-respect and self-worth. I kept chasing someone whose actions clearly said “I don’t give a sh*t, while his lips said “I love you”. I’m sure in his own limited way he cared, but was unwilling or unable to express it in the ways that mattered to me – effort, respect, honesty, and vulnerability. For years I overcompensated, thinking if I just loved him enough and gave him enough space he’d become the man I wanted him to be so I’d feel happy when I thought of him, instead of so often frustrated, disrespected, and disappointed. Writing this now it feels crazy that I ever betrayed myself with such a sacrifice – losing myself in an attempt to get closer to someone else (as Nat posted about on Facebook a few days ago). Kirsty, I’ve been where u are. It can take a really long time of no contact to see and feel the change in you, empowering you, knocking him off the pedestal he was on, and shifting your focus back onto you – what u want, all that u have to offer, and what u can take from this in order to learn and grow. Stay the course my dear, we’re all in your corner.
GettingItRight, thank you for writing this: “thinking if I just loved him enough and gave him enough space he’d become the man I wanted him to be so I’d feel happy when I thought of him, instead of so often frustrated, disrespected, and disappointed”. This is very smart and I have not made a connection before you said it. So very true. I am now looking back too and think – what was I so happy about? And why did I choose to be happy about while my whole house was on fire? How could I ignore the essentials and feel happy about this person? Thank you for your very thoughtful comment.
Yes. This is so apt for me again
I just want to throw something out there. For some honest feedback
My g/ f and her husband split up over 2 years ago. I have know her for 7 years. We have some lovely times and great chemistry. Sex is very good. I have met her kids had we get on really well although they only think I’m her friend.
The trouble is she talks about her ex so much and agonises over him leaving her to be with another woman. Just when I think I have given her great support and love , she will flip back to grief. She admits she’d be happier for the kids if he came back.
I arranged to meet him the other day to basically try to get him to be nicer to her before I realised that basically I was being used by her to get the low down on his plans.
That’s sick isn’t it ; being a go between to bring about a situation where I’d end up on the sidelines. I have been upset and angry so much about the situation. She just won’t let him go. But she won’t let me go either. I have tried to end it numerous times but she reacts very badly.
Ok. Give me your worst. – it’s completely dysfunctional right ? Bad can only end badly for me. ?
Hi Robbie… yep, I have done a version of this. With my EU, I worked so hard to be “understanding” and be the “peacemaker” while his ex would have a meltdown if I was around… he wasn’t over her and I was the buffer. Instead of seeing how I was being used, I was being shorted, I was the armchair therapist, I thought I was “helping” and these two people would “get over it,” be “better off” for my “help” – and then I could get what *I* want! Hooray! But it didn’t come to pass, even after she was totally out of the picture. And all the “helping” was at my expense ultimately – and it could only happen because I consented… until I didn’t. And then I felt a whole lot better bc these people were not my problem – they never *were* my problem, I just willingly took them on thinking this was the way to get what I wanted. Needless to say, my “love” was not “magic” and these people did not heal overnight nor let each other go… so I had to let them go. I don’t know if they got back together; for a month after, I was eaten up by that but now, 3 months later, I don’t care.
It sounds like you’ve figured this out (oh do they hate when that happens and will deny it up and down to keep you giving and giving). They will play hurt and wounded because it’s worked before to keep our attention/focus on them (that’s how they get their goodies). I’m sorry she’s still holding out for him; you’ll likely get scraps till she lets him go and you deserve a lot more than that.
Robbie, if you are in such a truly wonderful loving relationship, why are you on here?
Robbie, are they divorced? Soundds like she is not emotionally available. Your meeting with her ex does sound manipulative on her part; can’t see how that will help things.
You say she won’t let you go …. she doesn’t control you; if you want to go, for your own sanity, just … go. You don’t need to be reeled back in just because she acts badly; so what? She’s acting badly whether you’re there or trying to leave her.
Yeah, it’s dysfunctional, and doesn’t look like a shiny ending … but the good news is you already know this. You are able to go NC and stay NC, and this will really give you the space you need to see what the dynamics have been, and whether it’s now time for you to move on to someone who is emotionally available. You deserve to be in the spotlight, not the sidelines!
That feeling of unfairness is us shorting ourselves. I’ve been thinking about that debt-creation concept and boy, have I been *so* guilty of this. I give and give, thinking “surely they’re going to return the favor” and it seems so *obvious* to me that the “ball is in their court” but they just don’t catch on. Yes, they’re clueless but I’m the one tossing the ball over the fence to them, thinking they’ll wake up.
When I think about inverting it – giving to myself – it feels like an “emotional savings account.” I’ve been NC for a couple months and I feel so different now. All the things I wanted him to do for me, the ways I would have felt cared for, powerful, happy – they’re coming into my life in other ways now. It’s like, by investing my time/energy in my own “emotional savings account,” it’s paying out with interest – and I know what I want to “buy” with it so I’m always pleased with the result (instead of disappointed all the time). Going NC is a way to ensure that not even a single “dime” of my time/energy gets invested in an EU. I needed my own love more than he did.
Just like a financial savings account, the more time goes on, the bigger and stronger it gets… the more there is to work with and less likely I am to give it away because I feel and see what it does for me now. I was “loaning my (emotional) money” to the equivalent of an amateur gambler and wondering why the jackpot never hit… LOL My heart is a bank vault and I can withdraw my own funds anytime I want to now. This website has helped me tremendously to understand not just where he is EU but where I most definitely was. Thanks.
Love your perspective, Michelle! Yay!
LOVE THIS.
I have also started approaching these situation from a rational, business like perspective. The thing that bugs me though is that I should never tell other people about it because otherwise they start guilt tripping me into “but how can you be so cold! these are people we’re talking about! you’re so rigid” and I feel that this statement is actually about them. That they a) don’t like me having boundaries now. that are non-negotiable (i.e. not feeding my time and emotionally investing into someone who can only offer some future faking but takes my time right now); and b) they feel that once the emotional guilt is off the table they will not measure up and I’ll dump them. Which is exactly what happened.
At this point I honestly stopped giving a bleep about whether this is “cold hearted” of me as seeing relationships as an exchange of goods (good = anything that brings positivity to my life).
I’ve been in an on and off relationship for about 4 years. I always ended the rrelationship because I would always catch him talking and flirting with one of his exes. He always return with a sob story and of course I buy it believing some how I was overreacting and it wasn’t a big deal. Fast forward,this last time we reconnected after 4mnths of nc he was involved with someone he claimed was a good person, but she wasn’t me and didn’t make him happy. He admitted he had done wrong in the past and that he really wanted to be with me his exact words were “I don’t know how or when, but you’ll be mine again” this was in January it is now May and he was still singing the same song…so I ended it on mother’s day went nc for 7 days he contacts my mom telling her I’m always acting crazy, flipping out, and why does I hold things in that are bothering me. After this last episode I considered myself done so I didn’t see a need to question him about anything..but I flipped when my mom told me he had contacted her pointing the blame at me I texted him telling him that I would be to confront him at his door and that I hope his girl that he didn’t like was there so I could tell heor how great of a man he wasn’t. I went to his home her car was there and a few lights were on but no one came to the door..I figured he must had taken for a drive or something because of my text…anyway I texted him a few times basically taunting him insisting that he reply to me..he did stating “You win, you have taken this to a whole nother level, but I’ll take the next step..I replied great by not contacting me ever again in your life lying bas***d. It has been a day in a half of no contact & I don’t plan on contacting him ever. I just wonder what did he mean by taking the next step and why the lies of how much he loved and cared for me and that we would be together?
Confused, your whole story is confusing and full of drama! I can only imagine it’s all full of pain there too. I can’t see anything but games there; his saying “you’ll be mine again” (uh, like a title to a car? sheesh)
And the text games — glad they are O.V.E.R.
It doesn’t matteer what he meant about “next steps.” It’s all just garbage talk. Block him and stay blocked. He’s a gamer. You don’t need to get re-sucked back into it.
Stay with NC and you will see that after a few months, you will start feeling a whole lot less confused!
Judy, thanks for responding to my post. It’s funny that you say that it’s confusing and full of drama because he would always tell me I was full of drama and I didn’t want to be happy. I knew for a long time that I wasn’t crazy and I wasn’t causing the drama but I was reacting so I did play a part and I own that. I was hopeful that we could get back to the way we were in the beginning..ha wishful thinking. I’m moving all though it hurts i’ll be okay with time. I plan to come here and read because Natalie’s post and are so encouraging and they give me hope along with the others that give advice here.
@confused15, my ex-EUM pulled the same nonsense on me for almost six years. I’d find some shady sh*T, leave, and he’d beg me back with a lot of blather … a few weeks later, I’d find the same thing … rinse, repeat … cut your losses.
Hello Diane, my situation exactly! I’m happy you were able to let it all go and thanks for your response i’m moving on, I know i’ll get through this.
“he was involved with someone he claimed was a good person, but she wasn’t me and didn’t make him happy” IF ONLY I HAD AT LEAST A DOLLAR FOR EVERY TIME I HEARD THIS STORY HERE. Omg, confused. This guy is a total bleh. What is he, 17 year old college student? He is absolutely immature and lacks integrity aka his words have nothing to do with his actions.
His words about making you his (some time some day oh oh oh we will ride into the setting sun. maybe) – is a classic commitmentphobe reply and thinking. Have you read anything on the subject? I suggest you get your hands on the main books on the subjects. This kind of thinking of theirs is also exactly the reason why they juggle different women and never stay FULLY committed to either one of them: in their mind, no matter how shitty they behave or how uncommital they are, they can always lure us back. And guess what? We often allow for this to happen. We buy into their story of “I can always lure you back in. Even if we meet 15 years from now” (an exEUM told me something very similar on many occasions). In their mind, it is NEVER over. But you don’t have to buy into their story. It’s not your story. As classic literature suggests, they will continue coming back with the least effort (the usual “what you up to?” after months of no contact and sent via their favorite medium of all – text message). It is on US to cut the cord.
Also, what you said ” he would always tell me I was full of drama and I didn’t want to be happy” made me shiver. Word by word, this is exactly what an exEUM kept telling me at the final stages of our relationshit. And then I went back for more and his behavior became even more outrageous = more occasions when he could tell me I was crazy for having thought he wanted to have sex with that young colleague of ours whom he was touching in front of me. And gosh, did I try to see it through his eyes! Nope. Nope. Nope. Although I don’t have the best eyesight in the world and wear glasses, my vision was never myopic enough to see how I was “crazy” for getting outraged at all the triangulation, constant flaunting of his harem in my face and etc. and he was the one who was “normal”.
And guess what? After that I had although a short lived (non EU related issues) relationship where these questions were never even on the table – we were too busy living and loving our relationship and US together.
Confused, don’t be confused about this guy. If there’s anything to be confused now it is how to treat yourself not just good but in the best way possible. Let’s be confused by the amount of goodness that awaits you in this world once you scrub this person off your shoe!
Hugs.
Confused15,
Sounds like he’s a bit narcissistic. That ‘type’ will drive you batty. They usually have a handful of women on rotation because he’s always pulling some crap to piss one of you off. And the only one not getting hurt or driven crazy is him. Oh, I know the type all too well (unfortunately). They blame you for you reacting to their lies and manipulation.
These are the type of people No Contact was invented for. They will not take responsibility (it’s all your fault, even though you could have solid proof it’s not). One day they’re professing their love, a few days, a week or two later, they completely change their minds (they’re back on with one of the other females on rotation). Then when they want more (these type aren’t too generous, it’s all about their needs) and start feeling unhappy with him. He’ll be back to you. It’s usually a consistent inconsistent pattern of craziness.
It’s a sick game that you can’t afford to play, or figure it out, or how to ‘win’.
Do yourself and the people closest to you the biggest favor, go NC, as hard as it may ‘seem’, you will be glad you did and your saving your sanity.
You are the one engaging with him and entertaining him and the insanity. So, it’s not just him, it takes two.
They’ll lie just to get back in, and kick you to the curb whenever they want. And come back when they want. They won’t change, they keep you in a state of confusion, keeping you weak and waiting for their return. They keep you confused and weak because it’s the only way they can weasel back into your life.
Best thing you can do, is keep ignoring him. Focus on you. I had to change my number (he’d stalk my FB), blocked him from my FB, then he’d stalk my email, told him if he didn’t stop, he’d get a visit from the PoPo. Balls to the wall with these crazy makers. It was hard because it went on for a decade, but I did it. And I’m happy. I’m happy because I never have to feel that craziness ever again. I have stability in my life.
Good luck 🙂
Omg Demke, I told him that I thought he was narcissistic because of his inability to cry and express emotion. I thought I could get through to him by encouraging him to let go of the pain of his past that was caused by his mother. He would always state that if he had a better relationship with his mother maybe his relationships would last. He really has an don;t care attitude about anything that;s not beneficial to him. I can’t believe I was a complete fool for this guy! The way you explain how he has several women in rotation is spot on I would always wonder what did I do to cause him to become distant some days we would talk for hours, spend time together, and all of a sudden he would become distant. He still maintained contact, but it was very little. This last time I pretty much figured out he was full of game and that it was time for me to move on. I take responsibility for my part by entertaining the foolery and sticking and staying through the games which lead to this mess. Every time I would leave, I was confused yet waiting for his return. I’ll keep ignoring him, I have already changed both phone numbers, I have blocked him from all my social media accounts and i’m in the process of switching all of my important emails to a different account. I’m so happy that you escaped the craziness and reestablished a stable life for yourself. I can’t wait until i’m free of all this.
Yep mastering disappointment and self compassion is a real struggle for me – I had a really traumatic 6 weeks, I scrabbled through, but survived better than normal and with everything else I’ve been though – I expected – I would be able to handle the drilled in NC rules for people in my community responsible for consistant emotional abuse of me over the last four years (in the name of their own power and control over me stemming from their fears)……………I mean I handled worse right…………… and was so so so disappointed when yet again I trotted out the same old people pleasing
‘it’s sooooo nice to see you blah blah blah’ + smile – twice!
– when in reality, I was tired from work, hungry, thirsty and just wanted to grunt something brief and walk on by – sit down in my own home with a nice cup of tea and have nothing much more to do with them, relaxing in peace.
And I knew it when I saw them coming…. and actually tried hiding in my car for a while but was sooo tired it was move now or sleep in the car decision time.
I AM seeking validation from them in reality because I do feel they owe me – big time – I am owed for all the pain and hurt and humiliation, destruction of my reputation and relationships, ability to work in my community, compounding my shame and stress that led me to losing my health completely and any reality of realistically having my own family… or children… or relationship…or success.. or love or care. There I said it. I am owed ALOT of love and genuine care – after what I have taken from them and the love & care I gave to them – rather than myself.
This is…. even after everything I’ve been through and learned and KNOWING they would never in a million years give me anything that resembled care or love or acknowledge guilt of any kind – yet there I am still hoping….maybe this time?!…. I’ll get it right and i’ll be rewarded? finally – and consequently…. I end up seriously beating myself up for getting further pain during the whole 4 minute conversation… setting me up for further failure and further connected sabotage afterwards – till the next thing….
I am so traumatized around people, it took a while before I even recognised that all this IS in fact extreme disappointment in myself that I feel mostly – I was actually googling why I couldn’t be nasty to people who had been nasty to me????! – thinking what is wrong with me why can’t I be nasty?…I’m so chicken – before I thought hold on a minute and started writing it all out and following my feelings once again – balancing.
The word disappointment didn’t even occur to me – I just felt bad as I’ve felt most of my life.
I have discovered also, I have a complete sense of over responsibility (out of fear that if I’m not responsible – how can I stop bad things continuing to happen to me?) – like I could control the world by my perfectly (controlled/disaplined/powerful) behaviour??? and when I do – it would be perfect/controlled/disaplined back to me. How deluded!! and what a set up! – I have to be 100% controlling and powerful over all situations or else I’ll not only get beaten by them but worse by myself emotionally?!
I have a total lack of compassion for myself failing – I have failed completely in every way in life, leading to serious abuse, loss of health and find it incomprehensible why I would repeat behaviours that I KNOW only lead me to pain and more abuse. I have such a huge sense of loss and failure for my life and responsibility for it, that it takes over and makes self compassion near impossible when stacked up against everything – ‘I’ – have lost – through my life.
My expectations are completely unrealistic of other people AND myself in reality and I’m not sure I know how to change it practically without filling that hole with real love – safe compassion for them AND for me. I owe it to myself. Which is what I did for three and a half hours the next day. It may not fill a 44 year hole or give me a loving family but it won’t make the deficit hole grow bigger – and to expect to be able to switch to do it full time 24 hours a day, every day for the rest of my life is totally unrealistic, un-self compassionate and will only ever lead to disappointment guaranteed.
Being fair to myself is the next thing I am trying… looking for a better sense of perspective, that puts me and my behaviour, my intentions in a better warmer frame of light rather than always negative and responsible for everything bad that ever happens/has happened to me. We can’t control everything, unfair things will happen and I need to find a better way to handle them for me.
I can totally relate to all you say Nat. I feel very stuck and have a hard time giving to myself, and receiving. Like right now, I have lived in the same place for 2 decades and can’t get myself to move, so I can have a pet or even for a change.
Many other things I keep changing like men and jobs, both not by choice. Is this a symptom of being raised by narcissistic parents? How does one get the hell out of that pattern? It’s very debilitating and I feel like I am missing out on a lot of joy, like having a pet and just moving forward. I definitely think its unfair.
@whatever, why can’t you have a pet, not allowed in your building? Can you volunteer at a rescue group and get access to animals anyway? They really make one’s life so much better! Don’t know what I’d do without the unconditional love pets bring.
Have been in a very toxic and destructive relationship for 6 years,which was spent hoping that eventually his actions would match his words – just a token I love you if I asked – My self esteem has been completely stripped away and I never got anything that I needed in a relationship like honesty, respect, integrity, emotion etc. Had bailed him out of countless situations at home and work (we worked at the same place) all to do with money debts and gambling. finally he was asked to resign as had done one thing too many and got caught. He left and flew to the other end of the country to see his family and ‘sort his head out’ saying he was coming home and still loved me. That was the last I have heard from him (3 months ago) won’t answer calls, emails, texts, letters. Nothing. To say I have been devastated is an understatement and whilst I am now in a place where I don’t want him back as a partner, I still struggle to get over being totally rejected and wiped out without a backward glance. I have seen how quickly he has got back together with an old girlfriend from schooldays and am so hurt that he is saying and feeling things for her he never did for me. All I ever wanted him to say to me he is now saying to her and it seems so unfair. I am trying hard to move on but find being alone so so hard. I am 54 and everyone else I know is in a relationship. How can I get to grips with him falling on his feet and being so happy when I am in so much pain, on anti-depressants and seeing a counsellor?? any advice welcome
@Struggling15, how do you KNOW he’s saying x,y,z wonderful things to her? Are you listening in on their convos? He’s telling you this? He’s saying it to make you crazy. Also, who CARES what he says to her? It’s about what he DOES. Do you know what he’s doing? No. Lastly, who cares if he says/does x,y,z wonderful things to her and not you? Unless you’re HER, it doesn’t matter.
Struggling, it doesn’t sound like he landed on his feet at all, from reading your post. Sounds like he just grabbed another “savior” to save his sorry butt. He runs away and puts it all onto another unfortunate woman who is willing to accept his crumbs. (words are cheap. His actions are still crumbs.)
And not everyone is in a relationship, believe me!!! I am older than you and not in a relationship. Very happy with that status right now, by the way.
NC is the best thing to do with this guy. Otherwise, you not only accepted crumbs, you’d be begging for still more crumbs. And you deserve way more than that.
Struggling, so the liar, gambler, embezzler (?), moocher, got fired from his job and left you for someone else. You should be thrilled. You’ve chosen the wrong story – your story should be ‘why was I such a fool and praise to Venus that I’m out of it, hooray!’.
…you’re single, I’m single, its an epidemic of single – there are statistics on this. Live your life. Theres only one life. Forget him.
And turn the attention back to you. Ask yourself ‘why did I allow a moocher and gambler and unstable person into my life’ and ‘why do I mourn him now’. And how do I protect myself from people taking advantage of me (because that is what he did, and yes, you let him, that was a choice you made – after the fool me ten times, then its on you).
Call a friend. Call your therapist and ask them to be more directive. Ask close friends for virtual slaps (I used to ask my friend to send me a ‘slap’ on text to knock sense into me). Open up. Tell your story about him, just the facts, not your interpretation about how wonderful he is and how sad your life is – tell the facts. Hi, my name is struggling and I dated a deadbeat. The facts will set you free.
Volunteer. Travel. Fill your days. Garden. Knock every single thought out of your head for 5 months. You’ll feel better. Dont think – thinking involves telling yourself the story you just wrote here. That story will pull you down with it. Change the story, write five different versions of that story. Write the story of joy that you see the light now, you are just a few weeks from the light and even before the fog of sadness lifts, that moocher gambler dingbat is not in your life.
Tough love dear friend, we all need tough love. We need to be tough so we’re not such soft touches for such ACs.
Striggling15, not everybody is in a relationship, 58p of all people are single. You just masochistically focus on those who aren’t single. Next, keeping in mind average life expectancy, you’ve got at least 30 more years to spend far better than you’ve done so far. You’ve got a long time in front of you and now you decide whether to cut your losses and be happier because of your past experiences which have given you precious insights and awareness, or you want to continue to pine for a nobody. Simple choice, really.
I’d like to point out something else. I’m so grateful that I live in times when it’s totally acceptable fora woman to be single, and being able to earn my own living with my head and/or hands. Priceless.
Struggling15
Send a heartfelt prayer to whatever God or higher power you believe in that this deadbeat has flown out of your life. Feel sorry for his old girlfriend that he’s hooked up with again because she will be getting the same crap that you have been for the last 6 years.
These types of men DONT change, it’s not you, understand that, what you have got from him, absolutely nothing all this time is who he is.
It took me quite a while before I understood that the AC I was involved with was incapable of changing, I was always going to be beating my head up against a brick wall as far as he was concerned.
I’m older than you and single and having a great time with my family and friends. I do part time courses at a local college, joined my local gym to tighten up the flabby bits and have a active social life with a group I joined. A widowed lady I know has a lovely boyfriend 5 years younger than her, mind you she is 80 years old and having a ball. Never say never, you have no idea of what the future will bring.
One thing I do understand is to get rid of the crappy people that drag you down and suck all of the good things out of you, they take everything and don’t give a rats ass about you.
Flush hard and keep flushing.
“One thing I do understand is to get rid of the crappy people that drag you down and suck all of the good things out of you, they take everything and don’t give a rats ass about you.
Flush hard and keep flushing.”
Amen!
I just want to say that you are all wonderful and caring people, no one should put you down … Especially not ourselves.. We all need to learn to hold our heads up high and start to look after number one.
The personal stories, the advice given to each other and of course from Nat touches our hearts.. Together we will be stronger
Big hugs all round and thank you all for being there xx
Thank you for all your replies.it helps so much to put things in perspective. I know I need to take the focus off him and it shouldn’t matter who he is with or what he is doing. I’m getting there slowly but its hard that he stole 6 years of my life and harder that I let him. It just seems so unfair that the AC comes out happy and moves on with his life without a backward glance or thought. My values I know but how can you just wipe people from existence and stop caring overnight? He walked away in the clothes he had on,lives back with his parents, has walked into work with family and is the happiest he has ever been. I don’t wish people ill but how is it they go through life causing so much hurt and damage to others but never feel that themselves? BR and all you lovely people has been my saviour but my living room resembles a scene from CSI with so many downloaded articles and writing just to try and make sense of it.
@Struggling, I’m confused. I understand your sense of unfairness about the situation, but how do you know ‘he’s the happiest he’s ever been’? You said you haven’t spoken to him in 3 months. It sounds like a lot of projection on your part — you’re imagining that he’s walked away, got a new girlfriend, is deliriously happy, and is telling her all the wonderful things he never told you. I’m pretty certain absolutely none of this is true. He sounds like a complete and utter loser — lost his job, lost his reputation, lost money, and had to move back in with his parents, and used some woman as an airbag. I bet he can’t stand himself. Now to focus on you and stop imagining some perfect life that he’s not really living …
Whatever- This is by phone so I hope you see this. This is in response to your comment on why you (unwillingly) change jobs and men but won’t move so you can have a pet. Yes, these are symptoms of being raised by narcissistic parents. Obviously, I can’t say whether or not this is why these parts of your life are how they are but Google adult children of narcissistic parents. You may (or may not) have an “Ahah!”moment. 😉
I was raised by narcissistic parents and my therapist said that I’m classic textbook. There are good things about my parents too that I value but knowing that there isn’t something inherently wrong with me, that I’m just living out unconscious childhood crap is such a relief! 🙂
Rosie,
Thanks, any tips on what has helped you. I have done inner child work and continue to, seems like my life has barely moved past the inner child.
Also had some girlfriends provide mothering, but I didn’t like it for too long because it made me codependent, so I ended most of those relationships and am working on my relationship with myself.
As you can imagine, relationships with men have been difficult, I think I have attracted men like my father, who is a also a narcissist. That’s why I thought a pet would be good for me. I didn’t have any children (not by choice). Perhaps, not by choice, is a symptom of all this. Seems like I have too many ‘not by choice’ scenarios in my life.
@Whatever – I understand the feeling of ‘not by choice’ scenarios in your life. That’s exactly how I have felt all my adult life (now 53) BUT – I am sure that NML would say that in reality we did make a ‘choice’ by letting others make that choice for us.
I also have no children, never had a ‘successful relationship’ and have always stayed too long at the fair, not recognising when to walk away – seeking validation from men who could not/would not give it to me. Now I have to start my thinking over and accept that I can make the choices for me on what is best for me. Don’t get me wrong – it is very hard to change these habits of a lifetime. But it has to be done. I simply cannot go through the pain of these relationshits anymore. So I have to change my thinking and actions to get a new outcome.
I have also chosen ‘my father’ over and over again. Same man, different suit is how I described it to a friend (once the penny dropped!) And it is like being kicked in the gut over and over again. So now I have to choose differently. I don’t think it can be any worse! But it will take a bit of time to feel better. Just like any other addiction, I still get the cravings for validation/attention and the oxytocin too. But after reading BR for a while now and reading all the comments – now I have to choose me. And you can too.
Best wishes and strength in your recovery xxx
Best wishes to you
@whatever; I was thinking today that I am obsessing a bit over ex-EU fake dater. And trying as usual to figure my way out of it, thinking, thinking. And I realized a couple of things – firstly I had forgotten a few things that had happened and someone reminded me. So I realized I could let go because I have already figured this out.
And second, that sometimes it helps to accept the anxiety. Its accepting what is. I accept that something about him triggers me and thats just what it is – I dont act on it, I have no intention at all of acting on it, and the anxiety remains and thats ok. As long as I am not acting on it, I am not creating any new pain. Whats the big deal? yes the thoughts are harming me a bit, but there is only so much we can control our brains.
The reality it seems is that you are NOT ready to move out and get a pet. And you know what? Thats okay. MOving is stressful and a lot of work, so are pets. And its okay to not do it. To just stay where you are. You are not moving AND YET you’re beating yourself up over it – pick one of the two things. You ARE making a choice (not moving) and yet beating yourself up over it – why dont you trust your choices? You not moving is a choice.
Why not accept your current ‘flaws’ if you want to call them that or even just constraints? ITs a constraint that you’re not really ready to pick up and move. Its okay. Life is good enough, as it is.
@Suki,Bella
Thanks for your reassuring words. I suffer emotionally by not giving myself these needs I have, however, you are correct Suki, am I really ready for the responsibility of a pet, never had one…not really. Do I want to travel more extensively instead. My contract is ending in less than a month and I dread waking up to the ’empty days’, but have been through this many times before. Am trying to set up some travel to give me something to look forward to. For starters, I want to go to Santa Fe, trying to find someone to go with and that again presents another problem, so I’ll probably have to go alone, or I just won’t go.
Bellakins, you and I have had similar experiences and I laugh when you call it relationshit, let’s see if we can turn that into relationship.
@whatever; go alone. If you like, book yourself a nice place to stay so that if you’re overwhelmed you will at least enjoy a nice hotel where someone else does the cooking and cleaning. You deserve to enjoy life even if you can’t get someone to go with you. I think going alone is better than dragging someone unwilling + who knows what their idea of vacation is etc. Think of the bare minimum you might do on this vacation, and then decide if that bare minimum is better than staying home. If it is, then go!
I think in a big city, even going there, going to cafes, walking around the streets, is better than staying home because big cities are exciting and different. [i dont know if Santa Fe is a big city but I assume you like it since you want to go there so you’ll know how to enjoy yourself there, book a couple of tours or classes or experiences]. Enjoy life. Dont create moments of regret, action is better and will lift your depression.
@Whatever,
I can’t take the credit for the term ‘relationshit’ – I found that on an old post on here and thought ‘that’s exactly it – a relationshit’.
And ALL of mine have been too. So of course I have to look at the common denominator and that’s ME! Gulp! Much work to do….
Wishing you all the best, Bellakins xxx
@whatever – I’ve been to Santa Fe a couple times. It’s a smallish-manageable city but the drivers suck. There’s a lot to see if you love art. The cuisine is phenomenal. You don’t need to go with someone. I’ve been there with family, but it would’ve been nice to go on my own so I could’ve explored at my own pace.
Rosie, Thank you so much for your comments and tips about being raised by narcissistic parents. Your comments/tips (I checked out some of the sites) helped me make new connections and a huge leap in moving forward in healing! This one one voicelessness in particular really struck me.
Thanks again! Veracity
http://www.voicelessness.com/essay.html
Struggling 15,
I know you are hurt because you invested time and you loved him. Be kind to yourself everyday. Put your energy into making things better for you. I am following the advice I am giving you daily. You can gather enough information to write a doctoral dissertation and ponder about his behavior 24 -7 but he is gone. Grieve but put the energy into creating a new life for YOU. You say it’s unfair he found someone else. You can find someone too -when you let go of the pain and accept that he is gone. I understand the hurt because it happened to me. I was engaged and close to being married. He was out sleeping around.
That same energy you put into building a room of CSI material and studying him can be put into building a new healthy relationship with someone new. Pull you together and design a new life for yourself. Some days will be hard but create a new life. Think about your next move. It sucks that you gave him so much support and he was deceptive. In the future watch how men you date treat other people. All the lying and deception he was doing was a red flag. I watch how people treat others. If they lie to other people they will lie to me. I understand-after years of love and support you wanted a return on your investment. I did too. I found out he was cheating and I kicked him to the curb. We have never spoken again. Just like that.
Now, I am taking care of me. I want this PASIN to go away. So, I have the most fabulous weekend planned. I cannot stay at home reading and dissecting what he did. I told him to hit the road. Hit the road jack don’t you come back no more no more (you should be singing this song-lol.) I know exactly what my x is doing this weekend. He is at an event that we use to attend every year. Guess what? He will be living it up and I will be out living it up in a new way. Cause I can’t waste another weekend being SAD about what he did. Oh yeah life goes on.
Hit the road Jack. I like the sound of that.
MJ
@Struggling: (why me? Why why why..)
I was in love with a narcisist and raised by emotional abusers (my parents). It took me about 1 year of shifting my focus from him to me. So during the year I went through phases of: 1.rejection/ignoring/hurt 2. Why why why 3. Why did I accept his abuse 5. What was his hook into me ( father figure? Power? Money? Social dominance? My answer: all of the above 6. What can he really do that would make me content and happy? Nothing, I jumped into the same pain 100 times with no results ( love, respect, truth) from him. He was not capable of empathy. 7. Blocked all his contacts 8. Cry, unblock, contact = more pain. 9. Block permanently (made decision to love ME!). 10.Get busy: writing journal, seek friends read 11. Find values and virtues in me (self validation) not from him 12. Choose different perspective: I was able to love THAT MUCH! 14. Allow him in my thoughts as “someone I made a mistake with”. 15. See beauty in little things. 16. Be grateful every day.
Struggling you need to stop thinking that he has changed and is suddenly this wonderful, caring man who is treating this new girlfriend with love, care and respect. Leopards NEVER change their spots. He will be treating her exactly the same way he treated you and you should be thanking your lucky stars he is no longer in your life. It’s time to focus on yourself as you will never know if he is the happiest he’s ever been, or if he’s treating her wonderfully (guaranteed he is not). There is simply no point in fantasizing about them. Focus on you and your life, not his. Honestly he sounds like a complete douche and you have definitely dodged a bullet there.
I’m ashamed to admit that I still had access to his emails hence knowing what he was saying and who to. I have cut that now. MJ I LOVE the dissertation analagy! It stops today. Well done you for finding the strength to sound so positive. I no longer want him back but the void/hurt is huge and I need to find some purpose in life. I hate weekends and especially these long ones. I try to fill them for me and get out but life is just very lonely at the moment and it all feels like going through the motions. Sitting in Costa with a coffee is soooo hard for me. What do you do with your time?? Thank you all, Just knowing I’m not alone is the best help there is.
@Struggling, that’s a peculiar form of torture I am all too familiar with, and it will get you nowhere but deeper in doo-doo. Change his password if you have to, but stop reading. Also, whatever he’s saying to someone else doesn’t mean squat. People like this often change their persona to reel in a different person, and it doesn’t mean that persona is any more sincere. My ex-EUM used to write the type of emails to another girl that he never wrote to me, however, within a month, he had dumped her and was back banging on my door. Months after we finally broke up, a friend of mine saw him holding hands with a girl on the street — holding hands was something we argued about a lot, since he wouldn’t do it with me (should have dumped him then). Did that mean he’d finally found THE ONE? Hells no. Within a couple of months, he was back trying to get with me AGAIN. These guys switch up what they do with various women because they are experts at knowing what each woman wants. He’s a lost cause. Cut your losses and start the long, painful but worthwhile process of moving on. First step is TRULY accepting that none of this was YOUR fault, and he’s damaged.
Saturdays – Learning woodwork – different joins – making all the furniture I always wanted but thought I could never afford – out of the most beautiful off-cut rejected pieces of oak that I’ve been finding and saving.
Sundays – day of rest…
struggling 15 – finding things to do at the weekend is only hard while you are out of touch with yourself – once you re- connect with yourself, you suddenly start seeing things you want to do all over the place – and actually do them! – gaining so much love and respect and power for yourself along the way.
Get looking for things YOU like to do, what we do won’t help you , its the things that YOU KNOW will make you feel good doing them – alot of people use meetup.com to find local free groups to join or courses or make your own group or even if its going to the park and eating trifle – just do it for you. Enjoy yourself it is now allowed.
This is definitely an area that I need more work on. I have begun paying attention to my expectations of others. I have come to realize the way (one of the ways?) I have been sabotaging myself is by choosing to ignore it when people show me who they are. I used to think if I’m kind enough, I’ll win them over and they’ll be kinder, more generous, reciprocate, less withholding, etc.… This is old stuff. I’m relating to them like I did with my narcissistic parents. Everything was me trying to win them over – to validate me. Trying to get them to hear me, see me, consider me. Narcissists come off as very powerful – that’s the draw. What better place to get my voice validated that someone who is powerful (like mom and dad)?
The reality is, however, they only yield to my voice when it serves to keep me entangled – when it serves their agenda. It’s not sincere. So I end up feeling unheard, invisible and unimportant – a very familiar place. I’m aware now, more aware than I was yesterday. As my awareness grows, so does my ability to protect and love myself.
I would never have thought that I was a person that felt entitled, but I see it now. I sometimes want to have some slack cut for me for all the years of abuse and trauma. I do feel like I’ve lived through hell and I deserve some slack sometimes.
I now see that that slack needs to come from me. One of the ways I can cut myself some slack is by not beating myself for not seeing through people as quickly as I’d like. And for forgiving myself for all these years of hurting myself with my choices. I’ve been practicing self-compassion and I’m going to double my efforts.
I’ve just started a new temporary position and my new boss is very EU! He is not aggressive or anything (thankfully, last two bosses were), I think he is uncomfortable with people. He sneaks in, does what he needs to do and leaves. Nobody ever knows when or if he’s going to come in. Of the few times he’s said anything to me directly he told me twice in the last week that he will send out an email introducing me to the staff, he hasn’t yet. He was supposed to be in on Thursday to sign checks for the staff, he wasn’t there by the time I left.
When I first started (a little over a week ago), I felt the old familiar pain of being ignored and unimportant. I also felt that anxiety and that feeling of wanting to win him over – to change him – to make him see me – to make him want to talk to me. To control him. *Sigh* That’s what that is – trying to get someone to do something that they’re not.
The person training me acknowledged that he’s “a typical guy – not good at communicating”. Actually, she has been very validating of my feelings. I haven’t expressed them, but I’m filling in for her, so I would imagine she has experienced them as well.
I’m happy to have spotted it right away and have been able to feel those hurt and abandoned feelings without reacting to them (acting them out)!! I accept that that is how my boss is. For whatever reasons, that is how he chooses to relate (or not) to his staff/company. It has nothing to do with me. I’m responsible for how I choose to respond to him. I have chosen not to take it personally. I have chosen not to chase him, not to try and change him. I will set and maintain healthy boundaries with him. I will communicate in writing to protect myself from his lack of responsibility/accountability. That’s all I can do. It probably doesn’t sound like a big deal, but for me it is huge. My last few bosses were monsters and I took it personally and tried to fix, change, and pacify them – just like mom and dad. Of course that just made it worse for me. I see my part in it now.
Every day I see something new, feel something new, accept something new, grieve a little more and grow a little more. I’m so grateful.
I’m also grateful for those who hear me.
@Veracity, isn’t it amazing how well Natalie’s tenets work with all types of relationships? Good for you for seeing what it was.
Yes, Diane, it is! I’ve stopped dating, but the universe keeps sending people to learn from!
Thank you.
Veracity
Veracity are we sisters? Well done for halting the cycle of trauma in its tracks – while in it – its such a pivotal moment and I hope it feeds masses and masses of confidence in you and your true abilities and this gets reflected back to you positively.
I caught a man trying to exert his power and control over me for his benefit, today within a group – I must have either triggered a feeling of competition for him or threat of some sort /fear??? – who knows? not my problem I’m not his psychologist – at first I reacted to his behaviour and became subservient – then on his second humiliating public command at me – I dodged it completely and set a boundary instinctively!!! – in front of the entire group of people we were with (some of which had been sucked in to his ‘harem team’ already and didn’t even look at me on their way out – pretending not to see me out of ? – I imagined it was disgust at me).
I now have stocked up on strategies to further protect and support myself from any more possible grand shadiness because I knew exactly what he was doing the moment he started his shadiness – I felt the danger fully – and it took precisely one slip up before – no way came up.
I was shocked – I don’t mind telling you – he is exactly the kind of person I spent my life putting on a pedestal (and had done during this meeting feeling grateful just to have met him) – seems educated, hugely confident, successful etc… with me trying to get him/those on the pedestal to invite and accept me into their social circle – to raise me up to their level! (my family) – only…I set a really clear public boundary –
then ended up beating myself up for a short while after, for, setting it –
then heard myself clearly say – Can I be kind to myself today? My new sentence!!!!
I wrote a brutally honest list of the people in the group I genuinely feel truly comfortable with, in their presence and it was a total of 2 out of the 9 – which then made me realise why I felt so on edge all the time, in this particular group, why I had been struggling and failing increasingly with tasks I find normally easily within my stride and like I couldn’t get the majority of them to like me and crucially – LIKE I NEEDED TO DO BETTER, BEHAVE BETTER AND BE SEEN TO BE BETTER AND THAT I WAS BEEN JUDGED NEGATIVELY BY CERTAIN POWERFUL PEOPLE WITHIN THE GROUP – because I was being judged and not just by them, by me.
Can I be kind to myself now? Yes I can.
I stopped myself from over analysing tonight each person over and over in my head, over strategizing so I would forget what to do in any future moment of need – found the nippy pieces of advice I needed to protect myself, thanked something I learned and I KNOW and I am able to find what I need much quicker now and have moved on mostly … I am still rocking from the… but before I knew all this stuff I was just subservient and I barely noticed what was going on – should I be ignoring it and subservient like all the others again?…… – then I remember I have a colostomy as a result of my subservience and I think Hell No! I’d rather be on my own for the rest of my life, than go through any of that again – its still hard to break the habit of a lifetime and I’m sure I’ll slip up again so self compassion and disappointment strategies are becoming really important to me now.
Yes Veracity – what a difference it is to actually grow and live for real, and KNOW you CAN handle it – no matter whats thrown at you – you can find a way to get through and protect yourself. I am grateful for all the people out there I really connected/connect with – who come out of hiding and show themselves for who they truly are AND the people I don’t connect with for showing me who they really are – so I can head for the ones that make me feel better for being who I am, as I am more and more.
Too funny, Oona! I’ve thought that we could be sisters on many occasions! Last night I was thinking about your post and was thinking about how many similarities there are between us.
As an aside, I love that you make furniture, that’s awesome!
Thanks for the kind word of support. I’m working very hard to fully take it in the progress and let it build my confidence and sense of security. I’m amazed how much my confidence has suffered in the last few years.
Wow! Setting that boundary instinctively in front of all those people is huge. It’s so much harder when you’re in a group like that. It’s a lot of social pressure to just be quiet and play nice, nice.
“I was shocked – I don’t mind telling you – he is exactly the kind of person I spent my life putting on a pedestal (and had done during this meeting feeling grateful just to have met him) – seems educated, hugely confident, successful etc… with me trying to get him/those on the pedestal to invite and accept me into their social circle – to raise me up to their level! (my family) – only…I set a really clear public boundary –
then ended up beating myself up for a short while after, for, setting it –
then heard myself clearly say – Can I be kind to myself today? My new sentence!!!! “
The fact that he’s the kind of person you spent your life putting on a pedestal and you knocked him off it instinctively is proof of how far you’ve come!! That’s fantastic! I can totally relate to feeling grateful for being in their presence and trying to be accepted into their social circle. That they are the special ones and wanting to feel like you belong. I’m sorry that you ended up beating yourself up a bit afterwards, but I understand that too. It’s like were doing something wrong when we stick up for ourselves. I think it’s guilt (or maybe shame). Now when I feel guilty for sticking up for myself, I tell myself good job!! That guilt is telling me on the right track. Have you noticed that it looses its power over time?
It’s great that you took a good look at the folks to see how you felt around them. The realization of judgment is a big one. I think when we stop judging ourselves (accept ourselves) we will care a whole lot less about people like that. Like you, I’ve started really looking at the people I’m involved with and figuring out who I really feel good around and who I feel bad about myself when I’m around. I’ve ditched an awful lot of people! ?
I love your new sentence!
I’ve started talking to myself, soothing myself, as I would with anyone else, especially a small child, when I make a *mistake* or don’t do something “perfectly”. My inner voice loves me now.
Oh, I agree 100% with the hell no to going back to being subservient!! You now have the skills to protect yourself that you didn’t have as a child. You can make it on your own and not just survive, but thrive!! My new mantra is “whatever happens, I can handle it.”
“I am grateful for all the people out there I really connected/connect with – who come out of hiding and show themselves for who they truly are AND the people I don’t connect with for showing me who they really are – so I can head for the ones that make me feel better for being who I am, as I am more and more.”
Yes, yes, yes!!
Hugs to you, sister Oona.
Veracity
Veracity that – ‘good job’ – after a socially awkward boundary thing is a really good idea thank you – I was definitely telling myself ‘bad job’ for a short while after – its nipping the non self compassion in the bud that I am focusing on and recognising realistically what I am up against – ie if most in room don’t make you feel good – they won’t realistically support you if you set a boundary with one of them and they will attempt to make you feel bad for it – if you let THEIR feelings matter more than your own.
I noticed for a while, I am so used to accepting a self beating either way I handle something – i.e I was bad for not setting an immediate boundary AND bad if I set one?!! – always based on the clear information THEY gave me, that they didn’t like, love or care for whatever action I took.
This made me feel over responsible for more than my fair share of things and as Natalie neatly says re focusing that negative exterior gaze you have, on positive feelings for yourself internally is totally key but not easy when you never learned how as a child let alone adult.
Ps I am definitely, learning, to make furniture rather than professional furniture maker – found metaphor funny while I wrote it – realised suddenly the significance of using off cuts of oak and my need to not see it go to waste and be thrown away but be used to make something beautiful and functional for my home.
On Saturday I made my first joint – which was sadly a bit slack and gappy after Mr Micromanager had his go but I learned something and I am half way onto the next one which is much more precise and controlled and likely to stay together nicely. Its so enjoyable using a margin gauge (precision), saw, sharp chisel and mallet chipping out the wood you don’t want and leaving the wood you do.
Yep its not exactly what I saw myself doing as a 17 year old materialistic suburban hip grunge punk but I really enjoy making things of beauty/function and learning from them as I go and find making things gives strange little life lessons when I am least expecting which I’ve never noticed before.
Any way ‘good job’ Veracity, have a good week…
I’m glad that’s helpful for you, Oona. Absolutely, you get in a room full of mean/selfish people, their not going to support your boundaries. Quite the opposite and that is challenging when you were trained to look outside yourself for cues as to what you should do. Oh, and the over responsibility – that just clicked for me in a new way. I’m not sure I’ve thought of it that way.
I also found myself beating myself either way, so this – the good job – helped me move out of that. Baby steps, right?!
Sounds like you’re well on your way in making the joints solid. There is something very healing about creating things with your hands. The way you describe working and chiseling the wood does seem like a great metaphor for what we are all working towards here. Removing the bits that we don’t want/need and keeping the parts we do and in the process creating something strong and beautiful.
😉 It’s amazing where the lessons come from when you’re open to them.
Thanks, Oona. Right back atcha!
Veracity, I relate to every.single.word of your post. I’ve come to realize (with the help of my new therapist) that I was raised by a narcissist parent too. That once a person acts rejecting-ish towards me AND ESPECIALLY if it’s right after they were all hot about me – I get hooked. This is partially how I got hooked to an exEUM though I don’t understand that mechanism fully (yet).
The anxiety of rejection, the anxiety of competing for their attention (and often it’s not even with other people, it’s with their job, geographical distance, culture, family, hobbies, pets – you name it, I’ve competed with them all it seems) it all feels SO FAMILIAR. My goal now is to catch this feeling of familiar anxiety as early as possible. Once I catch it – I stop all communication and write it all down. What happened, what I thought, what they replied, how they acted. It may seem a bit insane if you never experienced this kind of narc rejection but for me this is the only way I can re-wire my brain and break the loop.
The worst part for me (and the most dangerous) is that I took that familiar anxiety to mean we were meant for each other, that he was the one, that we fit perfectly and etc. While in reality he just triggered my childhood trauma caused by my narc mother.
Why, it’s amazing, isn’t it?! It’s like a weird drug. Compulsion, really.
That doesn’t seem insane to me at all. You have to do whatever is going to help you short circuit that process. For me it was paying attention to what I felt like when I was wanting to leave my comfort zone and chase or whatever. It was in one of the boundary books I read.
That makes sense, that you would associate a familiar feeling meaning a good match until you recognized what that feeling is and what it represents. Now that you are aware of it, my guess is that it won’t have as much power over you. Now when I have that feeling I recognize that the person is not healthy for me to be around or if I do have to be around them, then I have to stay very conscious and put up a much stronger boundary.
You’ve got it Veracity.
Golden rule #1. Stop taking things personally. It’s not about you. These adults have had 10,20,30 or more years to be who they are, and no matter how much they try to blame you, their lack of real character, bad habits & behaviour is already fixed and is NOT caused by you.
Golden rule #1. Stop trying to change, fix, heal or manipulate other people so you can get what you think you want. In other words mind your own business and keep your mouth firmly shut and leave them to their own devices.
Golden rule #1. Develop and maintain healthy boundaries and don’t let anyone bust them for ANY reason.
Golden rule #1. Stop caring about or loving anyone who isn’t even giving you the basics of love, care, trust, respect, honesty and who doesn’t lie to you. It will be evident very quickly when everything is all about them and whatever their drama of the day is. They won’t give a rats ass about you or your problems and will disappear like smoke when you really need them.
Golden rule #1. Be your own best friend and guard your own back, no one can do this but you. This is a very good thing and don’t let anyone tell you that it isn’t, Assclown alert and boundary busting ahead if someone does.
Well done Veracity, it gets easier from here.
Thanks, Pauline! I also appreciate the way you wrote out the Golden rules. I’m going to print these as a reminder!
Veracity
I have a similar childhood as you. And, one thing I have been able to accomplish is to not take people at work personally.
I used to want them to be like family and it got me in trouble time and time again because my neediness came out and guess what, I got let go! I was doing a fantastic job, better than the person I was needy with and I got let go, not her.
Yet, I kept trying to have ‘friends’ in the workplace, which meant, i wanted to talk about my issues, until one helpful co-worker told me to stop it, it wasn’t appropriate.
I really learned from her and since then, I have not shared much about myself, only the good stuff. And, I loved it! it empowered me and made me feel like I don’t have issues, not in the workplace, so i looked forward to going got work.
I don’t have any personal expectations of my co-workers/ bosses. It makes me feel quite grown up at work and I love it. I always say now, work gets the ‘best’ me. I also feel a lot of confidence in myself at work, so I don’t need all the extra validation, but if I do get validated, I want it to be about my work, not me as a human, that’s my job and I do it well at work. Now, I need to transfer that attitude into the rest of my life.
Of course, it’s trickier, but am practicing not sharing my ‘issues’ anymore with friends too and in other social places, or much less, because issues bring me down. I too was raised by narcs. Bottom line, believe in yourself and don’t look for outside validation for your existence.
Of course, easier said then done. I do like having a bf to validate my womanhood, and i think that’s normal, just trying to not be desperate, otherwise, I pick bad men for me.
There is a guy right now that I met while taking a course, we see each other every couple of weeks in the class, but nothing has happened. In doing a couple of exercises, I noticed his behavior was very appealing, he seemed to be fair and caring and remembers things, like I told him it was going to be my b-day a couple weeks from now and as soon as I came into class he quietly wished me a happy birthday and told people at break, very sweet. We talked about b-days and I told him I will do his birth chart for him and I suggested we meet for a drink so I can go over it. He seems shy and is quiet in class. I don’t know anything about him, if he’s singles etc. But I made the first move and now will email him to go for that drink. Let’s see.
Whatever, That’s a big accomplishment! I think given many of our dysfunctional/abusive upbringing, it’s a challenge as everything feels so personal – we’re so used to feeling responsible for everything. I’m glad someone was kind and helped you learn that and good for you for acting on that information.
That’s an important lesson too – not to expect to get your unmet needs met at the office, it’s not healthy and it’s not appropriate.
That’s a wonderful perspective! To share your best self at work and with friends, very empowering. That’s what I’ve been working on as well.
I was reading of on bullying after I left my last workplace. I wanted tips to help prevent it from happening again. One of the big tips was not to tell anyone about your past experiences with bullying(abuse). It makes sense. I’ve taken it a step further and haven’t shared much at all about my personal life. I’ve mostly shared info about my hobbies while chatting at lunch.
I’ve noticed a bit of cliqueness and gossiping going on. (unfortunately, the woman who is training me seems to share her frustrations about what others are doing or not doing correctly as far as paperwork and who knows what else to this other woman – they whisper a lot). I just do my job and ignore it, pretend like I don’t see or hear anything. None of my business.
This other woman was acting jealous when the person training me was spending all her time with me. So juvenile. Now she appears to be ignoring me. I plan on avoiding her like the plague.
It’s a challenge for me. I’m new, I’m temporary (4 months) and the woman I’m filling in for seems to have herself well positioned and people seem to fawn all over her. My new boss still hasn’t introduced me. It’s a strange position to be in. I’m doing my best to relax and fit in as best I can and not expect anything more. Maybe in time it will feel more comfortable. I’ve got the job pretty well figured out, so I plan on going in, doing my job as best I can and going home! I’m stressed today though, my eye is twitching like crazy today!
“Bottom line, believe in yourself and don’t look for outside validation for your existence.”
I felt so sad and had so much compassion for myself when I was getting ready to leave. I found myself wanting to just disappear. To not bother anyone on the way out. Like my presence was a burden, annoyance or an inconvenience. I wanted to slip out quietly. Definitely old hurts coming up.
I wonder if that is what that was – wanting validation for my existence, but not feeling worthy of it?
I felt what came up and then said goodnight to each person I passed on the way out. I’m worthy of being seen and heard. My existence is not a – ?burden?, not sure what the answer is yet.
This is a good learning/growing opportunity for me.
It’s such a great feeling when you meet someone you’re potentially interested in! That was thoughtful of him to remember your birthday. Happy belated birthday! I hope he’s a great, single guy and it works out well for you. Since you’re a BR regular I trust you’ll watch your back! Good luck!
@whatever – I’m responding to your comments because they resonate with me.
I went through a major bullying experience at work 10 years ago that ultimately cost me my job, though I was able to get another position.
I didn’t realize I was being bullied until it was too late & I couldn’t undo it. Everyone turned against me because the bully was friends with everyone and she went from person to person pretty much every day to tell them how much I wasn’t working. It didn’t occur to them that these 30 minute sessions with 10 people took up about 5 hours as she literally had nothing else to do while I was swamped (she refused to help me). A couple years later she was fired after being caught on camera stealing people’s lunches.
The one thing I vowed immediately when I moved to this less desirable job (though I ended up liking it), was to get allies. I didn’t go from person to person to person, but I engaged more in friendly banter and didn’t let other people overwhelm me with their work. I had better boundaries so that when there was a problem, everyone knew me & I could be reckoned with. In my other job, I took on work and should’ve spent more time politicking. That didn’t mean I was now telling everyone my personal life, I was just getting allies.
Not as Antsy
Thank you for that. I realize how important those allies are. I try to have lunch with people but I don’t have to and I find most times I don’t (I’m on a different floor) but I also force myself to, just to make an appearance once in a while.
I’m stuck…..been stuck for so long it’s all I know as reality. Today I literally can’t get out of bed. My BF verbally abuses me “when his feelings get hurt”. The problem is, I internalize everything he says and have begun to take ownership of these things he says. Yes he apologizes later, saying he was mad or hurt and doesn’t mean what he says. His emotions get the best of him.
Each time this happens I feel myself going deeper into a hole. He then tells me that I’m unable to forgive him and he’s trying to become a better person. Oh the guilt!! I try to forgive and move on but it just ends up happening again.
I’m stuck and literally don’t know what to do or how to do it.
Donna – you are not stuck – you just got yourself out of stuck by finding BR, reading and posting on here. Now you have the chance of your life to move on and grow for yourself – YOUR INSTINCT IS NOT WRONG.
FOLLOW IT AND YOU WILL COME GOOD. IGNORE IT AND YOU WILL EFFECTIVELY BECOME ONE OF THE WALKING DEAD IN A REALLY BAD HORROR FILM.
Hello Oona,
Thanks for your kind words. My instinct?? He has me convinced that “anything” can be worked through if we love each other. That being said, he is the one who has done the heinous acts. Other women, online dating accounts, lying, I’ve not met any of his friends or family in three years.
When we have a disagreement (when I begin to push back) he becomes a true monster and says horrible things to me and about me. Each time it happens I feel myself slipping further into a very dark place. I hate myself, I hate my life, I hate my job…..ugh. All I want to do is sleep.
So yes, I feel stuck because I’ve listened to his mantra of “love conquers all”. I’m far from perfect……but I seem to remember myself as being laid back and happy at one point in my life. Pre him.
The promises kept me with him too. We are going to live together, we are going to get married.
What I don’t understand is that if he really doesn’t intend on these things then why continue to manipulate me to stay?? Why not just go find another victim?
Donna, and he really expects you to believe that “anything” — other women, online dating accounts, lying, alienating you from his family for three years, saying horrible things (verbal abuse) to you — can be resolved “if you love one another” ??? That is SUCH total bulls$$t.
Love is an action. His actions show callous disregard for your feelings. He is disrespectful and a manipulator.
Why does he continue to manipulate you to stay? Because, as a narcissist, you are still giving him some degree of narcissistic supply. And because he can.
Hi Judi,
Apparently he does. And what’s worse is that I did too. He had me convinced.
When things started going to “s**t” is the only time he would pull out the grand gestures. The latest was telling me that he intended on marrying me when we take our vacation to Las Vegas next month. I’ve heard these things over and over…..nothing ever comes of it.
He promised to set up counseling for us 6 weeks ago so we can work out our issues and move forward. NEVER HAPPENED.
He has said to me that he is ashamed of his behavior and wants to become a better person with my help….it’s comments like these that have kept me in this for so long. I say to myself “he wants to be better for me”…..so I stayed.
Just yesterday he had the day off and I asked him what he was doing. His reply was “oh I’m meeting someone for a thing”. It took a few minutes for him to actually tell me that he was meeting some guy for a job interview. This “privacy” thing as I call it has also been a constant for three years.
UGH…sorry for the rant. Just feeling mad this morning.
Thanks for your response…it gave me an incredible amount of strength.
Donna
Whatever- What is helping me (baby steps) is grieving for the loss of what should have happened in my childhood but didn’t. For example, I didn’t get birthday parties as a child so wasn’t really celebrated. Thus, I’m grieving the loss of not having been celebrated and then am closing that door. In closing that door, I’m closing the door on trying to get my parents to celebrate me through my relationships with others.
For me, it’s not so much doing inner child work but grieving what should have happened in childhood but didn’t happen and this reinforces my truth: 1. I deserved to be noticed and celebrated by my parents and 2. I deserve good things now as an adult. This is important because I am declaring that I was then and am now valuable. Thus, I’m looking for someone who matches me instead of me hoping I match him.
On Br, commenters say a lot, “Take what you give and bring it back to you.” I don’t understand that as no man/woman is an island. However, I’m learning that the happiness I wish for…say…A child…I deserve too.
Anyway, I don’t know if any of this is helpful to you. Although this is not a forum, I really appreciate Natalie’s allowance for us to comment on each others’ comments. We’re in this healing process together and knowing that is…well…healing. 🙂
Hi Rosie,
Thanks for confirming what I have been doing in my inner child work as well, perhaps the piece missing is the ‘closing the door’ you said
“In closing that door, I’m closing the door on trying to get my parents to celebrate me through my relationships with others.”
Can you elaborate on this. Do you mean, you are trying not to project your parent’s onto others and trying to get your parental needs met through them? This is how I’m reading it. That one is toughest of all. We have so many needs that haven’t been fulfilled and are still looking for outer expression.
Confused15,
In my experience with what I believed was a narcissistic person, the more you try to defend yourself, prove yourself right, try to understand them, give them advice, ‘help’ them in anyway, it’ll only harm you. We dont understand it because most people don’t act the way they do. They are very self absorbed people, and they have this way about them that keeps us hooked, no matter how poorly they treat us and how they drive us nuts. Remember, they are only out for themselves. Don’t bother defending or proving how they’re wrong. Just leave. You will never get what you deserve from someone like that.
Whatever keeps you ‘hooked’, you have to be stronger than whatever it is. And make a decision to never look back. He’ll keep doing what he’s always done.
For me it took over a decade and a lot of hurt to really, truly be done with him. He tried to make me feel bad and blame me for everything not working out. One simple response. “I’m done”. Changed #, blocked, etc.
I said it about 200 x’s in 10 years. I meant it that time. I am done. And so glad I finally got to that point.
I thought it was funny when he was all bothered I didn’t fight for him, come running over to his house to talk to him (back when I gave a damn), it’s an awesome feeling to finally let go, be done and no longer engage in someone else’s twisted idea of what love is.
Quote from a previous comment:
“One of the most painful yet eye-opening experiences is being 100% responsible for where you are right now. We are all 100% responsible, for our reactions, circumstances, our feelings and where we are in life.”
Okay, I have to step back and disagree with this, at least a little. I’m all for personal accountability and taking responsibility for one’s actions, but there’s such a thing as too much of a good thing. There is a point at which taking responsibility can cross the line and become a toxic form of self-flagellation. I don’t know if anyone has seen the HBO program “In Treatment” (It’s about therapy.), but there’s a wonderful scene where the therapist character is counseling a suicidal teenage girl and advising her to stop taking responsibility for her parent’s mistakes. This young girl was so obsessed with self-blame that it was contributing to her suicidal tendencies.
Obviously, that’s an extreme example, but, of course, things happen in life that we can’t control. We can be treated unfairly, people get sick, people die, a partner cheats, we get unfairly passed over for promotion, the economy crashes, natural disasters happen. I don’t think any of the victims are responsible for the earthquakes in Nepal. There’s a difference between self-responsibility, taking ownership, and victim-blaming. Survival guilt.
I like the old adage that we can’t control everything that happens to us, we can only control our reaction to what happens to us. I can’t control what my co-workers, my parents, or my ex-boyfriend does. I can only control what I do and how I respond to what life throws at me.
Kirsty,
Thank you for sharing your story. I have to say it struck me very hard and my first thought was “OMG Colly don’t let yourself be stuck for 19 years (I’ve stuck for 17 months – 9 months in the affair, and 8 months after in cycles of broken NC and the same arguments coming up again). My second thought was that you really must be such a strong strong person to be able to live through those 19 years of pain, deception and half-lived life. Really, it’s going to be tough to go NC but you have ever bit of strength you need to do it, it’s just a case of chanelling it towards you.
I haven’t posted in a few weeks, after letting myself down by actually seeing exMOM for the first time in seven months and then lashing out like a crazy person on here afterwards – frankly I’ve been too ashamed to write. Last time I was here Suki recommended that I read anything by Brene Brown, which I have done – I’ve done two books and an audiobook and I am so thankful I did – thank you Suki for the tip. Brene is a shame researcher and really explains the whole thing so well. I understood finally how utterly trapped in shame I am, and that has prevented me from feeling the guilt I need to to really make a change.
I’ve now moved onto Kristin Neff’s Self Compassion, and this is also making a real difference. I didn’t understand what being kind to myself was, and just practicing the exercises in the book is making me feel better (even though the exercises feel very unnatural to me). I am also now feeling guilty, which I think is great, because at least it means I’m finally coming back into myself.
Everyone is right, the guy is just seeking to have power over you, and you are likely struggling because you feel like you have lost control over him (even though you didn’t really have control anyway). It’s not really love anymore when it gets to this.
I’ve just come through a few days of exMOM contacting me to tell me he can’t stop thinking about me, loves me and doesn’t want to be in his marriage anymore, and then going back to saying he is stuck where he is and chooses to be. He even admitted he couldn’t commit to any decision about me or his wife. Hey just reading this I bore myself. This time I did cut it all off shorter than before, and I hope next time I’ll manage to just not listen at all – as it really is all the same circular bs every time.
So Kirsty, NC it is, and I really appreciate now how it’s not just NC but what you do in that time that counts. Leanne is a fine example of what can be achieved. Today I’ve made contact with a good friend id isolated myself from, and tomorrow I’ll do something else to grab my life back.
You can do this Kirsty.
Wow Colly! That is a real move forward. It shows in your words, that you can see that exMOM is a drama monkey, and frankly after your last encounter with him its clear he is totally unstable, even dangerous. I think its possible that he will also realize soon that you are no longer hooked, and as we all know it might make him try harder for a bit. So the really important thing now is for you to stay firm with him – if you give an inch, it will make him bold to keep trying. They say that ‘intermittent reinforcement’ is the worst kind for any behavior change – that is, if you ‘reward’ someone e.g. with your attention consistently then as soon as you take away the rewards they will get the memo and they will also pull back. But if you reward infrequently, then they will think hey, i might get lucky next time, and they will keep trying. So its important to be consistent with him so that he pulls away and finds someone else (we all worry that the EUs will find someone else, but this is probably what we should be praying for).
I only have a mild hooking in with the ex-EUM since we never got that deep, and I still think that he’s trying to ensure that I’m still hooked – he seemed very insistent recently that I come to a pub night with our group, and I didn’t go. I felt that this was likely going to be his usual bait and switch – pursuit and retreat – hot and cold – and thats exactly what your ex-MOM did. I didn’t think ex-EUM was pursuing me romantically, just that there was some stake which is why he was so insistent after months of ignoring me and NC from my side also. Although again, with a dating thing that didn’t go too deep it could also be the EU wanting to feel good about themselves – like oh look at me, I hang on to my ‘friends’ even though these ‘friends’ are ex-fake-dating-partners that I treated badly etc.
Except that in your case the stakes are higher – he’s not asking you to come out to some pub night, he’s asking you to leave your life for him… oh wait, no he changed his mind, some other time maybe, he just remembered he has a wife. Seriously!! He is living with no integrity at all, and I’m almost sorry for him because the odds are he has no respect for himself and loathes himself. He contacts you so that he can convince himself he has his life under control – and the more you respond, the more that confirms his belief that everything he does is okay. He is stumbling through life hoping someone is fooled long enough to validate his extremely poor life choices.
Hi Suki,
Yeah, I do hate the bait and switch, he does this every time. In fact I can say that it is never me that initiates personal contact, it’s always him, and it usually always ends up with me behaving crazily. The last few times it’s been him telling me how much he loves me and doesn’t want to stay with his wife, then after a couple of days of drama of him flipping all over the place he then retracts and says he is going NC on me – to focus on his life and prevent doing anymore damage to me. So, he kind of turns it round so that he looks like he’s the good guy who is trying to do right by everyone in the end.
I agree there is a lot of self loathing and shame with him, as is very normal when living in abusive situations, and I sometimes wonder if he does this mistreatment stuff to further keep himself trapped in shame. I also know that he is a FBG waiting and hoping for his wife to change – though I think his eyes are opening because he’s telling me she has changed but he still doesn’t want to be in it (guess he knows the change is really only temporary). I do feel sad for him and my Florence Nightingale kicks in and wants to help (and fix him up for me).
I’ve known for quite some time what he is really like, I just somehow still go for a hit of the drug. I’m hoping that the focused work I’m doing on myself will help me stop. I am working through my own shame and understanding how it keeps me trapped.
I just feel very sad about the whole thing today, but that’s OK, I’m going to allow myself that for a change.
Colly welcome back – I’m glad you overcame your shame to come back on here and re post kind, informative things for others – its brave – no one is perfect on here – and facing it is hard when we’ve felt so bad about ourselves for so long – proud of you. I know I find it difficult sometimes.
Ps we all go back to them until we are finally done – don’t beat yourself up please – you needed more confirmation and now you have it
– you can’t even have a conversation with this guy without being made to feel bad –
rejoice that you finally worked it out for yourself and can now put strategies in place to keep him away from you emotionally if not physically… and move on to something healthier and real.
Well done.
Thank you for your self compassion book recommendation – working on this at the moment and I am struggling with it off and on – I will check it out. Have a nice week Colly and welcome back – we all make an t** of ourselves occasionally and its part of our humanity and makes us more able to connect with others. If you were completely perfect you would in reality be a pretty frightening person to have around.
Hi Oona
Thank you, and it’s good to be back, my heart was in my mouth when I wrote yesterday and I’m so glad I did it.
The self compassion book is so helpful, one of the most useful things is it’s helping me be less judgemental about the thoughts and feelings I have, and it doing that they do come and go more easily. The Mindfullness exercises are also good and are stopping me from chasing the unhealthy thoughts so much.
Ooh perfection…that’s another one of my problems…though getting less virulent I think
Have a great week too.
@ Colly and Kirsty and anyone else who has been stuck in the OW role,
I have never been the OW, but I have been approached by MM, especially once word got out that I was getting divorced. Anyhow, I just wanted to share what’s really not fair, and something that maybe isn’t always considered.
My ex-MIL was the OW for 40+ years. Maybe 50. Until he died. My ex husband was the child of MM and OW. MM NEVER EVER LEFT HIS WIFE. I am not saying that this is WHY my marriage ended, however this dysfunctional dynamic infiltrated my entire family. My ex grew up with a secret father. My kids grew up with a secret grandfather. They were told that he was “working” all the time. Because the affair was ongoing, special visitations were encouraged when MM grandfather was making an appearance at OW grandmother’s house. Who cares if it interrupted nap time when the kids were young? Who cares if it was all built on lies? No, he can’t come to your birthday party, music concert, sports game, graduation. Nothing EVER because he has his REAL FAMILY. I resented my ex for never speaking up. I resented that we got sucked into playing into this BS lifestyle to accommodate a messed up situation. I finally told my kids when they were teens. It was eating away at me. The impacts are beyond not fair, as my kids were innocent. Am I at fault for not predicting the fallout and the generational secrets that would span decades and infiltrate my family? Should I have not married him? Should I have kept my kids from OW grandmother and/or MM grandfather? I don’t know. The entire “family” supported the secret. Anyhow, people could not believe Kirsty’s story. The combination of “it’s not fair” as well as Kirsty’s story and the responses to her reminded me of the resentment I’ve had for the “unfair” dynamic that my kids were born into. Of course, it had to be worse for my ex, as he never had a REAL father. People have baggage that they carry for a lifetime and pass along. Fair or not.
Veracity- Thank you for the link on adult children of narcissistic parents. Yes, it’s true what the doctor says–it’s important to allow children to have a voice. Interestingly, when I was sexually assaulted, I couldn’t scream or yell. I lost my voice. As an abused child, I wasn’t given a voice. What happens to us as children really does affect how we respond to trauma in our adult lives. Who knew, lol?
You’re welcome, Rosie.
I’m so sorry, Rosie. It’s amazing what that trauma does to our spirit. I was very, very quiet as a child. I stammered sometimes when I did speak. I still have a very soft voice. My (very inexperienced) therapist told me my soft voice could be my passive aggressive way of forcing people to listen to me. I could not wrap my brain around it no matter how hard I tried, It did not resonate at all with me. I’ve worked very hard to get my voice stronger. One of the essays in that link validated my belief that it’s not passive aggressiveness at all, it was just stomped out of me.
Vercity,
Try scream therapy, simply practice screaming into a pillow, or in your car (best done in an empty parking lot. Singing might be good too. And toast masters.
I have done a little of that, Whatever. Thank you for the reminder, I’ll do it consistently. I did it today and scared my cat! Should probably use the pillow in the future.
Freedom Tastes of Reality,
What I meant in my comment about being 100% responsible, is that anything that occurs in our lives that are “external” (how people treat us, natural disaster, etc.) we cannot control or predict unforeseen circumstances, that are external to us. However, we are100% responsible for how we interpret, perceive and react to these circumstances.
People will treat us badly, only if we allow it. We hurt for however long we choose, and we pick whatever ‘story’ keeps us there. There’s nothing ‘wrong’ with it, it’s just we actually can control a lot of how we live our lives. We can sit back and stay where we’re at, or make a decision that we want different. We realize time is precious. And we deserve better.
It doesn’t mean that we’ll ‘forget’ about anything bad that has happened to us, but we can, 100% choose how we will let it effect the rest of our lives. Each day. Today, I choose me. (A day of choosing me looks like…. not checking my ex’s FBook, my email, I’d rather put my time where it will actually have a positive impact (because I know it works).. My kids, my career, my self-improvement). Because that’s an investment in my present and future… That other ‘stuff’, isn’t in my favor. It’s not getting me to the good stuff. When I wake up tomorrow… It will be, ‘I choose me, again’ I’d rather lather, rinse, repeat that cycle than the cycle of toxicity any day.
It takes having courage to choose and keeping choosing, even if it’s baby steps, choices that will bring us closer to living a life that we really want. Many people have overcome some really tough obstacles in life, we’re no different. We choose to make excuses, justify and we allow fear to run our lives. If we ‘choose’.
So. Maybe the first step is… Asking yourself, ‘what does a day of choosing me and bettering my life look like’. I believe, that’s a start of being 100% responsible for you, and where your life (and if you have kids), where their life will be.
I think the toughest part is realizing who you loved isn’t the real person. For me, once I saw my ex for who he truly is which is a manipulating, cheating mentally unstable person (I truly think he’s a sociopath) that he is, my feelings disappeared. I no longer mourn his loss, I only mourned the loss of the imaginary person he created because I thought he was this kind hearted person who was genuine and honest- boy was I off. This past weekend I through mutual friends met the other designated fall back girl who also left him after reading his texts to many many women while with her, including me. It felt so great to share stories knowing he was this horrible person to someone else and treated us both just as awful but we could laugh, make jokes, and even had drinks with cheers to a positive future with a good man and not that loser. It was a great feeling to be able to look back and make light of the dark days I never thought I’d get past to now look back and laugh it off. I think the turning point for me was seeing him for who he is and not the made up person he made me believe he was. I can honestly say I have zero feelings or desire to ever be with that sorry excuse for a man ever again. I hope you ladies get there someday. I think part of it is loving yourself and knowing that it’s nothing you did, you just made a poor choice. It happens. Hell it happened to many women with my ex as I saw this last weekend. Don’t be hard on yourselves. Just move forward more wisely and try to see them for who they are from the early stages to prevent any further disappointments in the future.
Veracity, I just found this quote:
Self-criticism asks, “Am I good enough?” Self-compassion asks, “What’s good for me?”
It resonated with my situation and my narc parent and the way I am trying to switch my thinking now. Essentially, my whole life are in that description above. Funny enough, the quote is from a review on a book Colly mentioned in the comments here. Ironic how once you open your eyes even those small things start to align and lead you to a better place.
That’s a great one, Why! Yeah, that’s my life summed up too.
I just love that about awareness, all of the sudden there are signs everywhere leading to exactly what you need! That’s one of the reasons I try not to hold back too much here – to self edit too much. One never knows what is going to help another person on their journey.
Thank you for sharing the quote. I’m going to work that into my self talk!
Hi Colly, so glad to see you back and that you are seeing things more clearly. Well done on working towards no contact and for coming back to post here 🙂
It’s amazing how long we can stay in these situations and go around and around. We are ever hopeful, but after awhile, for what? Do we even really want to be with these men in all their glory, or are we addicted to the idea of them? I dont know. Kirstys story freaked me out too. So sorry to hear that it’s been 19 years K :(. Very hard to break from.
I have been having a good week, but very, very anxious.. Because I finally have another job interview! I am so excited because it’s with the company I wanted to go to, in the same position I have here at my current job. Fingers crossed that I get it!
I think knowing that this is coming up and that if I get it, I’ll really be moving away from exMM for real has been making me feel out of sorts. It’s a great thing and I really need it. Just trying to quell the nervous over the next bit without booze. And then I need to nail the interview so I can get away from here and on with the better life I have envisioned for myself. Wish me luck!
Whatever- Yes, I do mean that, by closing the door, I stop projecting unmet needs onto others. My therapist specializes in depth psychology. We didn’t go into detail about this but, basically, when we interact with someone, there are two conversations going on–the conscious, deliberate one and the subconscious, unspoken one. Out childhood stuff lived in the subconscious world and that’s why I have to not only acknowledge that I wasn’t celebrated (for example) but grieve it. The grieving part is very important. Until I grieve it, the door’s still open, which means I’m still trying to get that need met through other people, as you said.
Rosie
Thank you for that clarification. Very important and also it’s very important to be able to get where the other person is coming from, I sense these things with others, their underlying need and try to respond with their needs in mind, especially at work.
Demke, I figured that’s what you meant and I agree with you. Taking responsibility for ourselves is so important. I read an article in my local paper the other day that really bothered me. It was about a girl who dropped out of high school. She ultimately did find a route that worked for her, but what really struck me about the article was that this was an individual who made a lot of excuses. I also remember wanting to drop out as a young person & I had some of the same problems as this girl (bullying, etc.) but I consistently made the choice to continue my education. Now, I have a Bachelor’s Degree and might be going back for a second undergraduate degree.
As for this part of your post: “People will treat us badly, only if we allow it.” I am partially in agreement with this. I was discussing with my therapist an abusive relationship that I was in (and I really don’t think that I am the “type” of person most would expect to have had an experience like that, which just goes to show how unhelpful stereotypes really are). My therapist really clarified this issue for me. He said that, of course, no one chooses to be abused. What a good therapist looks for is did the person being abused a.) recognize the abuse and b.) leave (both of which I did.) He explained that that is the difference between a psychologically healthy response and an unhealthy reaction, such as codependency, which would basically where a woman with the means to leave stays for years and years hoping that he’ll “change.” And I think that’s the essence of what you’re driving at in your post. Am I wrong?
Colly- I’m glad you’re back too. I’ve been away so I don’t know what was said & done that warranted your leaving, but I’ve had to issue out many apologies to Online people, including here. In fact, I think I owed three apologies in one day on here, all because I read & posted before my first cup of coffee.
Thank you for the insight about the differences between shame and guilt and how you see how you’re working through the shame and are now experiencing guilt. You explain how this is good because it’s a sign of you returning to you. Wow! I would never have made that connection. Thank you for sharing what you’re learning and experiencing! 🙂
Wow. Absolutely nailed it. Thank you for this. I feel like a lightbulb just went off in my head.
This one is SO true. I guess this must be the main reason why it still hurts (I’m on NC for a month now since a breakup with a special person who looks like to be a coward or an overlapper or maybe a lot more). I cannot understand HOW a person you treated with love, care, trust and respect may construct the breakup itself around keeping his own comfort only, ignore my feelings, come up with weird and silly reasons to ‘why I didn’t tell you before’ and ultimately creating a ‘hang on’ situation (which would hurt me like hell if I wasn’t trying NC and rethinking myself instead of boiling the same situation with ex over and over). It’s just NOT FAIR, it’s absurd and not the way people should treat each other! Yes, I’m naive, I don’t have this kind of treating people in my picture of life, it’s a bad soap opera story arc and let it stay there. It’s not like I believe people should ‘pay’ other people for their feelings with those of their own, it’s OK that relationships don’t always work and in this case I had no illusions of our big future together, but people should break up DECENTLY and decent means not making yourself look like an honest person and me a fool who thought things were fine and acted accordingly, while a wholly different story was going on.
At least I’m trying my best not to break NC for the sake of ‘telling ex the bitter truth about himself’ crusade. I don’t think he would understand even if a hundred people told him that.
Lenny
I don’t think most of them do it on purpose. People are cowards becasue they just are and most would rather not be, but simply are. Owning up to it would bring up a whole lot of unpleasant feelings, so they simply disengage. It has nothing to do with you, so don’t take it personally and move on with your integrity intact. Good luck
Thank you for your comment and support Whatever! I agree that people may be cowards just because they are, either they don’t want to deal with sharp moments in life or haven’t been brought up in a certain way or don’t like feeling responsible for someone else’s feelings or many other reasons why. I just get angry when people fake cowardice with ‘friendly and calm’ approach to things. I’m trying not to take it personally, yet I understand I made my own mistakes by having some illusionary beliefs about this person and putting him on pedestal. I wonder how that could happen, usually I check and drop Mr. Unavailables and assclowns on the first or second date. Love does make us blind (or partly blind) sometimes…
I think saying they don’t do it on purpose is giving too much credit and buying into them being the victims. Yes, they disengage and when they make up crap to ‘escape’ having to be decent and honest, that’s manipulation. That’s on purpose.
Of course I’m speaking from my experience, but come on, if they PRETEND to be great guys, that’s also on purpose, to get what they want. Fair only in their world. I know Natalie has written about intentions. “Oops, not my intention” is not good enough.
Hello, Say Something!
Well, of course there is a bunch of those assclowns who are like ‘assclown classics’ with manipulative traits and knowing how to pretend to get what they want, but in my case I doubt he was this kind of assclown… Though I still cannot figure out if how he behaved was based on utter lack of people communication knowledge/interest bordering on sociopathy, cruelty or cowardice, or a little of everything.
Maybe there is some subconscious habit of doing such things? Like the guy is so egocentric that it looks natural to him that everything in this world is about his comfort. I mean, he doesn’t see it as performance or fabricating an easy escape, that’s just the way he lives and treats people. It doesn’t even make sense to confront him with arguments not fitting his picture, he won’t feel ashamed, hurt, sad or realizing he did something wrong. He sees things as FAIR for him, like you said, in his world, and it’s his genuine belief.
I now remember that one thing I particularly liked about this guy was him not trying or wishing to change me. I see know that probably nothing in this world could ever change his way of thinking & acting.
Hi Lenny,
In reading your other comments you have called him ‘special’, and then a ‘coward’, and ‘overlapper’. He can’t be special. And then you somehow realized he had someone else? He was never direct. I call passive aggressive all the way. Avoiding responsibility and being fair only to himself by not telling you. On purpose. That is cruel and cowardly for sure. I WRONGLY thought BGE would never hurt me, and even responded by writing to apologize to him, telling him I knew he wouldn’t hurt me on purpose. HE BROKE MY HEART AND I APOLOGIZED TO HIM. I realized later… Everything he did was on purpose. Passive aggressive and manipulative. He just
wasn’t CONCERNED with my feelings. It worked like a charm FOR HIM.
Say Something, yes, calling someone ‘special’ and a ‘coward’ in one sentence does seem weird! In fact you made me realize that both those characteristics or ‘titles’ I gave him still manage to live together in my mind. Ugh, I believe another month of NC will make me wiser!
He wasn’t concerned with my feelings at all – you’re totally right. This is also what I consider absolutely NOT FAIR. I shouldn’t be treated in that way, no woman who loves, cares, trusts and respects should be either.
Apologizing is another interesting point. I remember I used to apologize for a bunch of nonsense… like I feared he and our relationship were so fragile it would break from any slightest problem or mistake. Yet apparently tiptoeing around the man gives no guarantees and only makes things worse…
(by the way, I’m sorry for any mistakes I make – I’m from Eastern Europe and English is not my mother tongue :))
“Welcome to the jungle.”
Freedom Tastes of Reality,
No, you’re not wrong. I just say what I’ve learned in my experiences and others experiences, I’m not always right or trying to be right.
No, no one chooses to be in abusive relationships, I stayed in one for 10/11 years. He never took care of me, I took care of myself and my kids. To think of it now, the behavior I allowed for so long… Oh my goodness. So unnecessary. My mindset was so different then. It took me years to finally shut the door. Why? Because I was so wrapped up in the craziness, I didn’t know what the heck was going on. I had to learn, grow, mature and see it for what it really was before I could finally leave. It took a lot of learning, pain, tears, confusion and getting out of denial. No matter what lies I told myself, I decided no matter what, I was good enough. No matter what disappointments happened, any dates that never went past the first date… I was good enough… I kept moving. I still say it to myself every day.
This article couldn’t have come at a better time. I’m 2.5 months out of a relationship (that I ended), but still very hurt by the indifference/detachment and aloofness of my ex. We spoke recently and it really helped me get closure in realizing that he’s completely emotionally unavailable. I ended things with him because his distancing tactics became too much for me to handle emotionally. Although he tells me I’m the only woman he’s ever loved, I realize now that his emotional investment was on a different page than mine. He is not sad over the breakup, has not mourned any type of loss, just kept going and moved on. Is actually ‘happier’ not being in a relationship and says he doesn’t want another one for years–if ever. It is hard to not turn that around on myself and feel like I am to blame for his indifference or that I somehow caused him misery in the relationship. Is this typical of someone who is an avoidant or dismissive attachment style. He seems to thrive on being alone and shallow relationships with friends.
Sam, I don’t know if this answers your question. I can’t speak for your individual situation, but I personally tend to think that I get over things (especially romantic relationships) more quickly than most people, especially most other women. Not to say the break-ups don’t hurt, cause me pain, or take a certain amount of processing time to get over. For me, I think it’s a combination of it being just plain easier to live in the acceptance stage than stay stuck in denial. Also, I’ve always felt that I don’t need a guy or a relationship (I do *want* one, but that’s a very different thing). I’ve always enjoyed my own company, but I have many deep and meaningful friendships, so in that sense, I’m sure I’m very different from your ex. Also, it may be helpful to keep in mind that your ex may be putting up a front. Remember, guys are raised not to show as much emotion or wear their hearts on their sleeves. It’s very common for men to take up with another female shortly after a break-up. Even though he may be devastated inside, he would be feeling a lot of pressure not to show that to you or the “outside world.”
Thanks for your reply Freedom Tastes!
I look back on the relationship and realize that there’s been signs of him being unavailable emotionally for pretty much the whole duration of the relationship. He ‘wanted’ a relationship, but quickly realized that what a true, meaningful relationship requires is beyond what he’s capable of giving. He doesn’t like feeling vulnerable and doesn’t like people depending on him in any way. He went through a lot of emotional trauma as a child, so I’m not sure if that has anything to do with him, but it’s like he has no real attachment towards me..and never did.
Even during our 1 year relationship, he never once expressed anger, sadness, frustration, etc…over anything. It’s like he avoids all negative feelings or something. He told me recently that he’s realized he’s not ready for a relationship right now because he is selfish and ‘wants to do what he wants to do’. He said it’ll be years, if ever if he gets in a relationship again.
However, I take those words, and I turn them inwards to myself. Like 1. “did I do something to cause him to want to steer clear from relationships” and 2. “if he really did love me like he says he does, wouldn’t he be able to give me what a relationship requires, or wouldn’t he WANT to do whatever it takes to not lose me”. He’s said over and over again that it’s not me and it’s just where he is with life right now, but I can’t seem to wrap my mind around that.
Sam,
YOU being able to end things when faced with what your guy told you shows great strength. I have wondered those same things you listed, although I was never “told” what you were. I was told my good qualities, and (all of a sudden?) he’s “still F’d up” from his last relationship. When I asked a couple weeks later if he was happier without me around, he responded,”I don’t know how to answer that.” Those words crushed me. Next communication, he was with someone else. Not sure what keeps me in a place of pain a full year later. Maybe not being fair to myself. Thank you for sharing.
I don’t know if this helps at all, but I’ve started imagining the worst case scenario (even though we know it’s not true–it takes 2 people to be in a relationship). But in my case, I’ve started to say to myself…. ‘okay, let’s say I really was needy or let’s say I really was insecure, let’s say that really did drive him away and I am to blame for that’. I try to first acknowledge someone that isn’t going to trigger my insecurities and needs not being met (we all have insecurities and we all have needs) and I also try to accept my responsibility in the relationship and tell myself ‘forgive yourself for your part–how much longer are you going to beat yourself up for it?’
Try to let yourself off the hook and realize that this guy obviously has a pattern (as so many of them do). My guess it won’t be long before the new girl is in your boat.
@Sam,
I think I connected with your comment due to the description of your ex, and how he wasn’t sad and ‘he never once expressed anger, sadness, frustration, etc…over anything. It’s like he avoids all negative feelings or something’. I relate to that.
You also asked ‘Is this typical of someone who is an avoidant or dismissive attachment style. He seems to thrive on being alone and shallow relationships with friends.’ I thought the same in my experience. Beyond avoidant attachment, I added passive aggressive.
Anyhow, if he never expressed those emotions DURING your relationship, he wouldn’t express them in the end, right? For me the unfairness part is that the truth was buried because not expressing negative emotions also affects truly feeling and expressing the positive ones. That’s what I think.
You were smart enough to get out. My part, where I was guilty in the relationship, would be that I believed him and trusted too much. With only his positive encouragement and future faking ideas, and no negative feedback ever, I wrongly believed him.
People can do whatever they want, fair or not. In relationships I wonder if the word *FAIR* even applies. Sometimes I think it’s a free for all, and we choose to participate or opt out.
@MJ- thinking of you and looking forward to an update.
Hi Say Something,
I wish I were near you. Today, I would buy you drinks and dinner. You are not guilty of anything but wanting to be loved and treated right. Sadly, you met an ass (so did I). If you can be grateful for anything be glad it didn’t take years to figure out that he was an ASS. I know it still hurts.
I am forcing myself to get out and enjoy weekends. This is a process. It will not get better overnight. I must be healing. I use to walk 20 miles and I was so numb it never registered (broken into to ten mile sessions). Now, there are days I have walked 10 miles and I mumble to myself this is no JOKE. It is HARD as hell to walk that far. I must be coming back to reality. I am feeling it in my heels. I am BACK.
There has been a shift in my attitude. I have accepted what has happened. It’s over and I finally understand and appreciate what people mean about living in the present. I cant look back and I cant look too far ahead. Those thought patterns set me back. If I have a day that I cry (it is lonely) then I just sit and the tears pass. I want someone special in my life.
I want YOU and all the special ladies on here to HEAL. I wish I had a wand that I could wave and make all of our wishes come true. Here is a big hug for you. I want you to be HAPPY. Have a beautiful weekend.
Your Virtual Friend,
MJ
Hi MJ,
I walked 4 miles in flip flops today and my feet hurt. 10 would’ve been tough in such inappropriate footwear. Well my walk was with Internet bird-nesting guy. We met for the first time, and I asked if he’d actually moved out at all. Supposedly they were going to alternate their time in the house with the kids. Nope! The apartment fell through. (oh and there aren’t any others?) So 3x wk he and the “almost” ex wife live together, because only SHE found alternative housing. YeP, the courts just haven’t processed the paperwork, silly courts. I see RED and see that I would be the transitional relationship. I’m way beyond this kind of crap. I’m sure HE will think I’m not being fair, because he says they’re like roommates. Oh, and she has to buy all the groceries. WTF. I
totally get it. I am not getting involved.
The 10 yr older guy contacted me for the 4th or 5th or 6th time now, telling me again how I’m not being fair to him. He added that his lawn is free of dandelions, LIKE I CARE! I never responded to him, but one time, and he didn’t like what I wrote, and is still working it to change my mind. It’s never going to happen. And I’m still sad and messed up about BGE.
Good to hear from you, and that reality is kicking in.
Run gurl run. What made you decide to meet him? You said before he was a big RED flag. Are you lonely?
MJ,
Well yes I’m lonely, but not desperate. After 5 days of disappearing, he emailed me how crazy busy he’d been. I called BS and replied that nobody needs 5 days for a 5 min response. He then admitted that he was ‘slighted’ by my original remark of having a friend try the rotating parents in the house and it not working out. I figured can’t hurt to meet in real life, probe a bit deeper. Making sure I’m being true and fair to myself and not over reacting. But my instincts were right. He may be a ‘good’ and ‘decent’ person. He seemed so. BUT def EU based on confirming his living situation and ‘almost’ divorced status. AND kinda boring AND no spark. I wonder, if his personality were not so dry and I felt any chemistry, would I still apply the BR-EU not gonna work rules? I hope so.
I think this is where we (Me for sure) run into problems. We see red flags in these men in the very beginning ( this guy has them), they are very clear, yet we still engage and point out the red flags like anything we say is really going to make them say “gee, your right I wasn’t busy enough to text, I was just making that up” Then we have to satisfy our curiosity, or our co dependence, or our florence habits, or our loneliness by spending time with them just to make sure the red flags were RED enough. We try to come across as secure and not the kind of person to take any BS then we step right in it. I m not criticizing you at all, more of a reflection on seeing myself and maybe something many of us do when we have soft boundaries but try to put a front that we don’t. Hopefully you won’t see him again. He has nothing to offer but some future drama.
My reply sounded critical, but it was more of an ‘AHHA’ moment. If his ‘almost divorce’ and nesting with his wife is a deal breaker for you, why go in for more evidence? What was your goal? Was it to relieve some boredom or try out you dating again wings? All understandable, but really more interaction with losers that do very little but drain us. Do we need anymore of that?
Hi Say Something,
I am with you lonely, but not desperate. Smile. The disappearing act alone the he pulled would do it for me. I understand you wanting to make sure you were not overreacting, but I think that is how some people get caught up in bad relationships.
Trust yourself you outlined some good reasons before for not meeting this guy. His situation stinks. I don’t think you want a grown man who does not seem to know how to get his own place. He is still tied to his wife and whoever gets involved with him will deal with drama.
Based on what I just experienced I am going to be careful about calling anybody decent until they have truly proven it. When he contacts you again what are you going to tell him?
There are too many games with dating.
MJ and Selkie,
I already wrote up a brief msg for this guy and then decided to send ONLY if he gets back in touch. I wasn’t really looking forward to mtg him, (no excitement brewing, so maybe this was good… no fantasy expectations?), fairly certain that I’d discover he hadn’t found his own place yet, but in-person to me is helpful. I didn’t want to interrogate him via email and text, and decided I’d ask the ‘defining’ questions within a natural convo face to face. I also suggested we meet at a park, so no dinner, drinks, strings…
Anyhow, turns out he’s just some guy going through a divorce at his own pace, which is fine. Just not fine for me. I’m way beyond that stage in my life. Not even really a date. Had he actually been moved out, and said yep, got my papers, AND there was any kind of attraction, maybe I’d have proceeded w caution. I guess I was clarifying amber v red. And I’d taken a 4-5 month break, so maybe boredom played a factor. But I verified dead end, and am totally ok with that.
Part of me feels like ‘hey I’ve done a shite-ton of work on myself’, years pre-BGE, and now over a year post-BGE. And I guess this is where I wonder when I’ve done ENOUGH to qualify as a person allowed back in. Like ‘fair is fair and I’ve paid my dues and I’m good enough now, right’? Selkie, as you’ve discovered, there are some messed up people we could/ might/ do date. I feel emotionally head and shoulders above that type of shady person now. Maybe I can’t completely shake this BGE thing until I meet a genuine good guy. I live in stuckness partially because there IS nobody else in my life and I think that there may never be. I have gone through more than a complete year now and have posted about my sadness here. I admit that I’m still deeply sad, more than a year later, FEELING like I lost the best thing ever, but knowing that it couldn’t be, or it WOULD still be.
I cried alot last night, just thinking about him (BGE) and wondering when can I be done working ‘enough’ on myself, trying to forget him, and actually meet a real guy. I will always work to improve myself, but at the same time I realize I am super self-critical. Being told ‘you’re not ready’ or ‘you have SO much work to do’ or ‘you need to stay away from dating’ reinforces that ‘something is wrong with me/ I need to side-step the world’ mentality. Maybe I needed to show myself I can and do know what to look for. I can. I do. I can apply what I know, just not to BGE. I’ve been over 8 mos. NC and I’m trying. But I am still hurting tremendously.
Last night I went to bed at 7pm and read and thought of BGE, missed him, and cried. Still reading NML’s pink book (toward the end is feeling more relevant) and ‘the sociopath next door’. I’d much rather have been spending my time with another person than being alone again. I hate that I miss him. It feels so unfair that I am still crying. This pain feels deep and settled in.
I will still maintain that BGE had me believing he was the best guy ever. Consistent, thoughtful, kind, affectionate, attentive. I didn’t know then that ‘charming’ and ‘sad stories’ were warning signs of EU and/or sociopath. I didn’t know that being involved with someone like that could completely disarm me, causing me to lose the essence of who I am. I didn’t know that I could fall for someone who could present and maintain such a wonderful persona, while having a covert agenda. I know now. Of course that doesn’t seem fair at all, but nothing has to be, right? That’s just sometimes what happens.
Hi Say Something,
You are in pain from what the dirty douche bag did to you. So, you must have some strong boundaries in the future. Guard your heart like a pot of gold. Because when you fall for someone you fall hard. When you determine that a man has red flags don’t look any further exclude him for your list of prospects. QUICK.
You are so pin point on with your advice to many on BR about the men they are with being douche bags. Now, I want you to see your ex for who he is a big douche bag (BDB). He knew exactly what he was doing that last weekend. He already had a new relationship. Let Go.
The reason Mr. (nesting with his wife-dating website guy) was so slow to respond to you is because he is dating other women and he has a mess with his wife. You are single-suggestion- don’t consider men who are going thru a divorce. They are married men until they are legally divorced (messy). You need someone who has something MAJOR to offer you. You should RUN and FAST from any future drama. I do.
Your note to Mr. Dry Personality and still married is simple. BYE.
Are you really ready to date? You seem still really hurt (about douche bag) and you sound like you may be really critical (you indicate the need to ask questions-examine) of someone new. You have to exude a positive energy when you are ready to start dating again. You have to take things light and slow when you start dating. Mentally you need to feel good about yourself. You don’t want someone else to take advantage of you (they can smell blood in the water-hurt). Some advice- your story about the douche bag should stay here on BR (or with close friends)don’t take this baggage about this creep into a new relationship. Move forward with a clean slate. I m giving you advice that I am going to take myself.
You can meet someone NEW. When you are ready to date make sure that you look sexy and hot(I got some hot little Black Halo dresses-they can go from client meetings to a nice evening with cocktails). Have a positive attitude to match your look and don’t deal with anyone who exhibits red flags upfront (FLUSH). Keep your boundaries in place. It is TOUGH enough when we discover red flags much later.
One day at a time. You will HEAL.
HUGS,
MJ
Hi MJ,
Well I don’t HAVE anyone to date, so it doesn’t much matter. And I won’t stay with someone that I don’t REALLY like. That’s what happened this past fall. Just didn’t feel it and never got serious, so ended it. But I tried and no regrets. He had asked me about BGE and I just told him that I didn’t want to talk about it.
If I could view BGE as a d-bag, I think I would probably feel so much better, instead of continuing to feel like I lost out. Damn. Just not right.
Just realized my texting hasn’t worked for 48 hrs, so not sure if bird guy tried to make contact. I have no desire to see him. He invited me (in person, when we met) to a wine thing next wknd, but I have somewhere else to be anyhow.
I have three dresses hanging in my closet that I’ve never worn… Two are summer. One is tangerine, one is black. I’ll let you know if I ever have a reason to put one on.
Hi Say Something,
I couldn’t reply under your last post. Put on one of your cute dresses and go to a happy hour that lots of people go to. Go out just to have fun and with no expectations.
I don’t like that you were waiting or wondering why bird man did not text. He is not worth a minute of concern. NEXT.
Focus on the game douche bag played on you and not the fantasy you have of a great future with him. Do you believe that you are stuck because -you think he will call one day and say I really screwed up I want you back?
Do one thing great for yourself this week.
HUGS,
MJ
Good Morning MJ,
Thanks for your suggestion and song links. When I’m out of the office, I’ll click them.
I wasn’t waiting on bird man, but rather was expressing that IF he had tried to text, my phone was on hiatus and I didn’t get messages (confirmed) for 1.5 days. Thus if he HAD contacted me, I would send him a no thank you response. That’s all, just don’t want to be rude, and look like I’ve disappeared. Not a big deal.
I guess there is a part of me that would like to see BGE come back and apologize and say how unfair he was and sorry and let’s try again. I know he won’t. And like you, I have no idea what was wrong, only that he chose to leave. And over a year later I still miss him like I’ve never missed anyone or anything. Guilty.
Hi Say Something,
If he ever comes back please don’t entertain a relationship with him. Someone who disappeared like this will only hurt you again. He knows he could get away with it. They are not worth the effort.
I wish there was some way to erase the memories. Maybe we both would have healed faster. Healing takes place on your timetable. Just be good to yourself.
I am glad bird man is no big deal. Smile.
HUGS,
MJ
I am going this phase where I feel rejected by someone who I loved. I found out he had a girlfriend the whole time that we where involved and he never disclosed that information. How do I get past the hurt? How do I get past the shame of things I have done like face book stalking, sending messages and calling the girl. I was hurt deeply but I want to get out of this state of mind and move on. This pain is unbearable. We had a closure meeting but my pain lingers on.
Hello Dee, I’ve been going through the same hurt. I was keeping usual contact with the guy not realising he had that other woman already (though I had asked him to tell me if he wanted to change something in our relationship and he didn’t react). I wasn’t stalking or calling her, though couldn’t hold myself from picking information about her on the internet etc. I have those terrible waves of rejection sometimes, like I’ve been ‘exchanged’. Yet at least they are waves, not constant feeling as in the beginning. I think you should forgive yourself and not feed your shame ‘on purpose’, though it happens that pain sucks energy from us by itself. Being NC helps A LOT and with time pain will go away (I hope that too). Take care!
@Dee & @ Lenny,
I feel the same at the moment – the pain feels very real but if I put my hand back in the fire (by contacting him again – and he probably would reinstate me into the harem at a very low level, the rejection (and mistreatment) that I inevitably face will just make it worse and prolong my recovery. But it doesn’t stop the craving and I am reading (and posting) all I can to prevent me going back in.
For me, I was in fantasyland with the very little he gave me (especially in the way of communication) and he started a slow descent so that the bar was so low in the end that all I was getting was dust…not even crumbs. I literally clamoured for his attention and validation and he just laughed at me and lowered it even further until I agreed to things that were demeaning and shameful. He is the archetypal player and has many women on the go so he just wanted to see how far he could push me down. Of course, he has zero respect for me as I agreed to do those things so it could never get better even if a miracle happened and he saw that I was a worthy person and he changed his AC/EUM ways. So I can’t go back for more of the same or worse. But it is crippling me at the moment.
More reading, more writing, more distractions and hopefully the pain will go with time.
Best wishes,
Bellakins
This is my first post and I would like to start off by saying this website has shed a lot of light on many issues that are often very difficult to articulate or express. I’m very grateful for stumbling across this community. It is wonderful to see so many people sharing their stories and offering support.
However, I cry as I read many of these posts. They resonate with me so much, I can feel others’ pain because I have experienced that same pain. This is a long introduction, so please bear with me.
I feel stuck. My past three relationships have been abusive–mainly emotional and verbal abuse. After each one ended I told myself I deserved better and I would be stronger the next time round. While I have made progress, I still find myself attracting Mr. Unavailables and/or Assclowns. The first abusive guy I determined had BPD (borderline personality disorder) although I’m not a psychologist, the traits of BPD described him perfectly. The next guy was emotionally unavailable, a pathological liar, and manipulative, but was slightly more conscientious than the prior guy.
The most recent guy is extremely narcissistic and and an AC in almost every way. He has called me every name in the book (worthless c*nt, psycho b*tch who no one likes or respects, etc). He is selfish, disrespectdul, never accountable for his mistakes, blames me, projects, manipulates, makes excuses, gaslights, twists my words around, lies, and he cheated on me. We were fighting and not on speaking terms when he got drunk and decided to take some random girl home with him. He told me the day after it happened and he was crying about it, so I thought he was showing regret and remorse. However, he claims that it was not cheating because he thought it was over between us. Then he claimed that his reason for doing it was to “secure” our breakup, since we had many fights yet neither of us had the strength to end it for real, he believed sleeping with someone else would ensure we didn’t get back together. I felt like this was his way of portraying his irresponsible actions as “heroic” in some way, but I accepted it and forgave him.
I continued trying to work things out, constantly explaining myself, my feelings, desperately trying to get validation. But the more I did this, the more things he found to use against me and blame me and put me down. Any time I would get upset and react angrily, he would use that against me. “You’re lashing out in anger!! See?! You are abusive too!!” All because when I called him out on his garbage, he would deny/defend/excuse/justify, which naturally makes me angry. Now, I’ve told him he is a selfish jerk and is being an a**hole, which I know name calling is not acceptable, he has said and done much worse things to me. I know that doesn’t make it right to call him names and in fact by doing that, it gives him something to use against me in an argument so he can deflect from his own patterns of misbehavior.
It is hard to maintain No Contact with this person as he works with me and we are neighbors. He doesn’t have a car, so I have been giving him rides to work. I have tried being just friends with him, but we end up hanging out and sleeping together. We have great sexual chemistry and a few things in common but that’s it. I know he is extremely toxic but it is very difficult to keep him out. He blows up my phone, knocks on my door and bedroom window to “check up on me” when I don’t respond to his calls or texts. He is very invasive and does not respect privacy or boundaries whatsoever. Then he claims that *I* am the one who is oppressive, controlling, and demanding. I know he is projecting his own actions onto me to make me look like the bad guy, but I still doubt myself. These past relationships have completely shattered any self esteem I may have had.
Last time I talked to him was a few days ago, and he told me not to “air our dirty laundry” to everyone we work with. I have never done that, though, of course I talk to close friends and family about some things. He then texts me and says he has sent the ENTIRETY of our text conversations to some of his closest friends, to see what they think. He said that they all think I am crazy and that he can’t help me and advised him to stay away from me. I was furious at this, of course, not because I was worried that I made a fool of myself in the texts but because that is an extreme violation of privacy and personal boundaries. He then tells me he didn’t actually send our conversations to anyone, he just lied to see my reaction. He says, “What does that say about you?” And then “It’s nice to know you can talk about our problems with others but I can’t” WHAT? I never ever sent anyone our private conversations, that is completely different from talking to friends and family for support and advice! This “man” is 27, and he is acting spitefully because I told some close friends and my mom that he cheated on me.
After that I decided I was no longer going to text him, at all, ever again. He has been out of town the past few days at a music festival, and he has been sending me texts about what a great time he’s having with all his new friends that he just met, and more texts about how everything is my fault and what a terrible person I am. It has been tempting to reply and refute and explain and defend myself but I know it ultimately does me no good. I shouldn’t even be giving him the time of day.
I just want to figure out why I keep letting men like this into my life. What is it about me internally that I need to work on and fix to prevent this from happening in the future? Obviously I have low self esteem, but I know several women who have low self esteem and low confidence who are in normal, healthy relationships. What is wrong with me?
Carebear,
Right now THIS GUY is what’s wrong. Basically, from what you’ve said, there is sex. And he’s a clear, no more info about him needed, D-bag. Even you see that.
You are reacting and defending yourself. He enjoys this dynamic; the drama. Part of you gets something from it as well, otherwise you wouldn’t participate. If you want validation that he’s a huge idiot, HE IS. Most others will agree. But now you need to stop being part of this craziness. It’s mean, disrespectful, and immature. Stop forgiving him, stop talking to him, stop sleeping with him. You will miss ‘it’ but that’s okay. He is not going to morph from D-bag to good guy no matter what he says or does. Haven’t you had enough? Be fair and kind to yourself. CUT HIM OFF.
I have almost reached accepting that this relationship is actually over but still struggle over the way he left (just disappeared and cut all contact 3 months ago – flew to the other end of the country to his family, living with parents having said he was coming back and still loved me) My problem now is that having recognised that he was EU and had it pointed out by many people that HE had issues and was clearly unable to function in a normal relationship, I have had to face the fact that it would appear that is not the case. He has returned (straight away) to an old GF from his school days (who is married!) and they have obviously both regretted not staying together, feel like soulmates etc. His ability to both feel and articulate loving emotion for her has been such a blow to me – if he had said half of that to me I would have got what I needed. His physical desire for her has also been so hurtful (he had no interest in a physicial relationship for years) All I ever got was indifference. I just don’t know how to process that in fact it was me who was wrong for him. He has never been himself with me or opened up, a very ‘hard’ person. He has completely opened up this woman about everything. Has said he has given her his heart and is completely vulnerable now but realises it is the way to her heart. (Yes, I am sorry to say I have been accessing his email) I really don’t know how to process this now – it was hard enough when loving him so much I had to try and accept he was UNABLE to return those emotions. Now I have to accept that he just didn’t want to and feel as upset and distraught as I did on Day 1. I just can’t find a way to stop being in love with him and stop this pain.
@Struggling15,
Please please STOP reading his emails. I know people who have done the same and it will suck the life right out of you. You are torturing yourself. T-O-R-T-U-R-I-N-G. He lives with his parents and is spewing crap to a married woman. Classy. You are not going to become stronger and accepting until you STOP torturing yourself. He’s a pathetic liar playing an attention game with an unavailable woman. Now you know he’s a pathetic liar. Get the NO Contact book. Stop looking, reading, searching, accessing anything at all connected to him. You’re NOT missing out anything and thinking you’d want even half of his lying BS? Really? You don’t. You wished he’d said loving things TO YOU and meant them. You were wishing he could be someone COMPLETELY different than who you’re telling us he is. Sorry, no way can he be ‘vulnerable’ with a married woman. He is so full of crap; so much crap that it’s just spewing from him. How bout you change his pw to something you’ll never remember and let him wonder how his account got hacked.
@saysomething. Thank you. Thank you. I get so stuck inside this wheel I cannot see things. You are right and I will keep reading that until I get it in my head. Please let that be soon. Maybe I have been hoping to read something, anything to explain his vanishing act, acknowledge some sort of feeling for me?? I don’t know but I know it has to stop and I have to find the strength from somewhere. If I could stop loving him it would help. Then I hate myself for still living such a ***** and suffering so much when he has moved on so fast
Struggling15,
He didn’t just vanish. He wasn’t “present” in the relationship for a long time. You just got used to it, and blah became normal. Actually, it was worse than blah. It was horrific, the way you described it. But it became your normal. Put all your CSI articles in a bag because this case is solved. He is no good, you’ve even said so. You feel attached, but you are attached to guy who is truly no good. What is it that you think you’re missing out on? It’s just the spewing of the crap. Read above from all who wrote to you. CSI= Crap Spewing Idiot
Say Something,
Hi. This is some helpful tips. Nothing but time can make this right.
http://tinybuddha.com/blog/how-to-let-go-of-a-past-relationship-10-steps-to-peacefully-move-on/
#4 complicated grief
I’ve been reading articles, in order, from the last one you sent me. I’m again reading this one. I feel like it relates to this post as well. LOTS of comments and marriages, moving-ins, and plain old relationships that ended as the result of blindside, unfair sabotage.
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/happy-one-day-chopped-the-next-when-they-breakup-and-vanish/
“People, especially dishonest, deluded, scared, and fickle people are changeable.”
Hi Say Something,
That article was brutal for me to read. WOW. Some things take me back down a bad memory lane. Happy one minute and chopped the next. Reality. We can’t really control what someone else will decide. WOW.
MJ,
I actually read all 300+ comments as well. Some people do whatever they want, with a secret agenda. Not sure why I can’t get over ONE. FRICKING. GUY. It still feels like “GAME OVER”.
Hi Say Something,
Like you I read all the comments it helps me learn from others. Do you enjoy your work? Is it a distraction for you? I was up painting last night like I was getting ready for a one woman art show. LOL. I need to get a life. SMILE.
Where do we go from here? UP!
MJ/Selkie,
I’ve started replies to you both (and Eli’s) in another post, but couldn’t finish. I’ve been reading and thinking of your stories, comments and progress. Just finished reading the ‘sabotaging happiness’ post and I def do that. MJ, my work is moderately satisfying, and I know my true unhappiness is because I still associate happiness with BGE.
Additionally, I have destroyed all my close friendships. All in different ways, like completing my self-fulfilling prophecy that I don’t deserve goodness or happiness. Feeling confused, sad, afraid, empty, unsettled, and alone. All of this feels ‘wrong’ and I’m frustrated and wonder if ‘the work’ I’ve done was ‘wrong’ as well. Therapist every 1-2 wks for almost a year, NC for over 8 months, trying and doing new things, still doing my other activities, reading, no excessive drinking, no hookups, unsent letters, writing, ‘acting’ happy around others, getting up and going to work whether I feel like it or not. But I am still feeling profoundly sad and haven’t stopped missing him. I hoped that doing these things would help, and assist me in accepting and letting go and feeling better. I know my thinking is ‘off’ because I’m not having the AHA moment that people seem to get. Or the fading/change of feelings I thought (hoped) would happen with time and distance. Am I sabotaging
myself? Can I actually feel worse? I’m not sure why I can’t progress and why I can’t let go. Logically it seems like it’s my fault for not working hard enough on my thoughts- feelings- beliefs. I feel buried in grief and recognize that this process of digging out is excruciating, as well as something immensely difficult for me. The most difficult thing ever. I don’t feel like myself anymore but am not sure what being ‘myself’ really feels like anymore. How much crying in a day is normal and am I just feeling sorry for myself? Can missing someone feel this awful a year later? Have I given up on feeling better? These are questions I can’t even answer because I am really severely hurting and confused right now. Ughh.
Hi Say Something,
It really does sound like you have done a lot of work to recover from the damage this ass did. I can relate to- so much of what you say-that is why we have connected here.
I made plans to go to a paint the nite event (paint and drink wine)with a new girlfriend. I just set up a date to do this. I regret it now. I am just not feeling it. Nothing seems to fill this void that I feel. Like you I am trying but it is tough. I just try every day. I do great things on the weekends, but it is like something is missing. Not him. I don’t want him anymore and I don’t miss him. I think it is just loneliness. A cute guy smiled at me as I was entering the coffee shop. Looked me up and down like I was a piece of fine art work. But he couldn’t close the deal. He didn’t have the nerve to say anything and I will never approach a man and help him. Nope you gotta be able to close the deal without my initial help.
For me this time is about rebuilding a new life. I never saw this coming and it is tough to start over. I will never make a man the center of my UNIVERSE again.
I needed company bad so I hired a group of women to clean my place. It is so important to have order and a clean home when your mood sucks. I talk to the ladies as they clean and I cook some great meals while they are here and then invite them to eat dinner. I know it sounds pathetic (asking strangers to eat with me) but you have to start some place. My next door neighbor told me to stop by. I am thinking of taking some flowers and wine and dropping by their place (a couple-sad face-could be me). LOL.
You sound like an incredible person when I read your posts. You give some loving advice here to people and you have a heart. Something is going to work out for you. What does your therapist say about your recovery and you feeling stuck?
Hey did I ever tell you that you gave me more respect than my fiancé did? You were kind enough to tell me when you were taking a BR break. He just went to a hotel and hopped up on top of someone and did his business on them. Never thought I am about to rip MJ’s heart out.
Things are getting better but it is slow. Hang in there Say Something.
HUGS,
MJ
MJ,
It’s great you are cooking and sharing w people. Not pathetic! I spent some time last wknd cleaning. I have a long way to go, as I’ve never been good at it.
Finally listened to your Joss Stone recommendations. Great voice, second song was more empowering. She might have better hair than me 🙂 but similar.
I think the difference between us/ them does come down to fairness, honesty, caring, having a heart… doing the right thing and owning it. Not PURPOSEFULLY hurting others thru deceit, withholding, manipulation, and secret agendas.
You don’t miss him. I do. And I
HATE that I do. What does my therapist say? She says acceptance is difficult. That it’s not helpful to be negative. That my thoughts and beliefs aren’t necessarily truths. That there is no timetable.
I’m reading april/may 2011 posts now. I know I’m not an exception, that we all share a common hurt. I think that’s why I’m frustrated w myself… I can’t grasp the breakthrough or the change in attitude that others can.
Virtual good thoughts for your loneliness to dissolve.
Good Morning Say Something,
I am reading old posts on BR too. It is helping me. It feels good to finally not miss him. Now, I cry about being lonely but don’t miss him. His birthday was recent and I thought of him. But I don’t care what he is doing. This shows how I have changed and it feels strange.
This whole experience has changed me. I am just not the same. I am not fully present when I am around other people. I feel disengaged with life. I am no longer a good listener. Sometimes I just check out. I think it has to do with my loneliness. I set up a date for a social event but don’t really want to go but I have to. I am trying to build relationships. So, I have to get out.
I feel like this experience has destroyed my life. Typing this make me cry. I am trying to continue to recover. I have basically tried to heal from this alone. That is tough. How are weekends for you?
MJ
Hi MJ,
I feel ‘changed’ as well and I understand how you describe being disengaged. I’m out of town at an event for one of my kids, sharing a hotel room with my ex-H. First time ever, but $ is the main reason. Could not have done this years ago, but I don’t have any strong feelings for him so I am thus far handling this ok. Wish I could call you and tell you more.
Anyhow I am TRYING to be fair to myself and make better decisions. The last few days I have been contacted by several online people. I recently changed the wording in my profile, and stated things like: I’m the only one who looks after me; currently separated = still married; I know what it feels like to be 100% wrong; What I write in my profile doesn’t really matter, or mean we’re necessarily ‘a match’; nice and good are not the same. Perhaps some see these statements as a challenge. Idk. But three guys already want to meet me, citing things like:
We have alot in common (our kids are the same ages?)
You’re adorable (it’s the joss stone hair lol)
You seem to know what you want (it’s just a frickin profile)
We should see if there’s a spark (yes, when I’M ready, not in 24 hrs)
I am able to relocate (ffwd much?)
I’m not saying ok and giving out my number. I am asking more questions. Yes, it would be GREAT if one was the real deal. My profile has over 8000 views, but so what. I am going to be fair to ME regarding online dating and whether I give out more info or not. Would I rather meet someone face to face and not thru online? Yes, but it rarely happens no matter where I am, who I network with, where I go. Just being honest.
I’m sitting outside this hotel (not a HOtel) by myself and wishing I were here with someone else. That’s the void, the loneliness, even though I’m surrounded my a zillion people. I can’t much cry this wknd even though I kind of am right now, just a little.
Let’s overcome loneliness. I need to forget BGE. I need to do that or I will never, ever be ok.
Say Something,
I am spending this rainy evening reading thru this article and all the comments again. It helps to see that other people -have gone thru the tough adjustment of starting all over again.
WOW. This is not where I expected to be. It’s not the dream I had for my life. For sure. Thanks for sending me this link.
MJ
@Say Something,
It is a harsh reality but you’re absolutely right. I have to cut him off. He has been harassing me despite my request for distance and space. He texts me constantly, going from one extreme to the other. He’ll tell me how wonderful I am, how much he misses me, how he wants to work through our problems no matter how tough it gets. Then as soon as I respond with something like, “please leave me alone and stop contacting me,” all of the kind words he was saying get thrown out the window and he starts chastising me again which tempts me to get defensive and argue all over again. It’s like if he doesn’t get his way and doesn’t hear what he wants to hear, he turns against me like we are mortal enemies. It is absolutely ridiculous and it’s a cycle of abuse that I have to get out of if I ever want to be happy.
I got in touch with my service provider today and blocked his phone number. I already feel bad about it…but I know it’s for my own good.
Thank you for the advice.
I have read and read and read and just wish I could make the theory work in in practice and get myself out of this stuck place. It really is why her??? And I’ve read that BR post a lot. Its spewing crap but I wanted some of that crap from someone who basically told me (and appeared) completely unable to ‘feel’ for 6 yes – quite a transformation. I just don’t understand why i can’t move past this and stop caring if he says xyz or not. He’s gone. I get that. I don’t get this??
Hi Say Something,
So glad to hear from you today. LONELY. I will never make a man the center of my universe again. As this Saturday drifts by the day is tough. Socialized on Friday some. I feel like someone throw me on a roller coaster (I am going up and down). I am doubting myself. I am feeling like a misfit thinking about how he cheated. I am trying to get dressed to go get some therapy- a deep tissue massage.
I am happy for you that people are contacting you online. I went online and it is really screwing up my weekend. I m overwhelmed by the number of a$$holes including my x fiancé that are online talking trash. I wish I had the number of a caring adult. I have been reading Nat’s old BR pieces all morning. It is bringing me some comfort.
You are amazing to be able to share a room with your ex H. WOW. You are my hero. Something great is going to happen in your life. You are going to heal. I like the way you sound today. I hear HOPE in your post. You deserve that. We all do. What is life without HOPE?
Tough day. I need a HUG. I am so lonely.
MJ
So, I’ve declared that I am attempting to be fairTO MYSELF. I am being slammed by online messages from 8-10 people. Please assure me that NOT YET wanting to give out my # (after just 1-2 days of emailing) is NORMAL and ok. I was just called non-trusting and defensive, and that I’m judging and convicting someone because I declared a boundary of NOT JUST YET. I said I want to know what’s important to you, and I want to proceed with caution. I get told, “well I have a liquor license, that speaks for itself.” WTF no it doesn’t. What is this 24 rush to claim a phone#? This guy gave me his and is now basically trying to say that I’m not being fair because I won’t do what HE WANTS. That’s what I’m feeling. Or am I missing something. I am DEFENDING MYSELF against a potential date? Not ok.
Hi Say Something,
You don’t know who these men are. You have the right to decide when YOU are comfortable giving out your number. If anyone tries to force you to do otherwise simply say BYE.
A RUSH is not respecting your boundaries. RED FLAG. Don’t entertain red flags RUN. As Natalie says you have to trust your own assessment of things. SMILE. I read BR posts yesterday while trying to solve a work issue. Yesterday, was a TOUGH day. Reading BR helped because I saw that everyone has struggles.
Recovery from being cheated on (and lied to) is a roller coaster ride (up and down). I just don’t like this, but the reality is there is no quick fix. There is one ray of HOPE. I don’t miss him. Now, I am just lonely. If I had a girl friend my healing might move faster. We all need people in our lives. If I can just fix a couple of things I would be good.
MJ
Hey Say Something,
I agree with Mary Jane. If you don’t feel comfortable giving your number, you shouldn’t be guilty or forced into it. I do the same thing. I don’t give my number out until I have met the guy and feel there is a potential. I don’t need a texting friend or a guy collecting numbers. And most importantly, I don’t even know if that is the person I am talking to if I haven’t met them in person. Stick to your guns. If they don’t respect your boundary, it’s not worth it and you don’t know the person so don’t take it personal.
I once had a guy that wanted to take me out to dinner on the first date and I declined politely that I prefer to do drinks on the first date. He got so offended he started calling me a stiff or to live a little.. I told him, if he can’t understand where I am coming from, then we are not a good fit. He emailed me later saying he found 2 other ladies for dinner dates and it was my lost. How can I lose something that I didn’t even know the guy? I’m glad I kept my boundaries because can you imagine if I went to dinner with the guy and he wanted to walk me home? crazy!
Ladies,
I’ve stood my ground. I never thought about casual meet/date and THEN give number out. Thanks for that idea. It’s kind of ____ (arrogant?) that someone I don’t know can tell me I’m this and that because of abc so I should do xyz. Making up things about me, oh I should contact police if guys are bothering me. I never said THAT. I just said I wanted to be careful and take my time. He then called said guys “rednecks” so I pointed out that actually, said guys have been PhD professor, business developer, engineer, dentist… Then he starts with “money people” are controlling. Projection much?
Thank you! Why is it hard being fair to ourselves? I don’t owe this guy ANYTHING.
So, I’ve declared that I am attempting to be fairTO MYSELF. I am being slammed by online messages from 8-10 people. Please assure me that NOT YET wanting to give out my # (after just 1-2 days of emailing) is NORMAL and ok. I was just called non-trusting and defensive, and that I’m judging and convicting someone because I declared a boundary of NOT JUST YET. I said I want to know what’s important to you, and I want to proceed with caution. I get told, “well I have a liquor license, that speaks for itself.” WTLF no it doesn’t. What is this 24 rush to claim a phone#? This guy gave me his and is now basically trying to say that I’m not being fair because I won’t do what HE WANTS. That’s what I’m feeling. Or am I missing something. I am DEFENDING MYSELF against a potential date? Not ok.
Hey Say Something,
I agree with Mary Jane. If you don’t feel comfortable giving your number, you shouldn’t be guilty or forced into it. I do the same thing. I don’t give my number out until I have met the guy and feel there is a potential. I don’t need a texting friend or a guy collecting numbers. And most importantly, I don’t even know if that is the person I am talking to if I haven’t met them in person. Stick to your guns. If they don’t respect your boundary, it’s not worth it and you don’t know the person so don’t take it personal.
I once had a guy that wanted to take me out to dinner on the first date and I declined politely that I prefer to do drinks on the first date. He got so offended he started calling me a stiff or to live a little.. I told him, if he can’t understand where I am coming from, then we are not a good fit. He emailed me later saying he found 2 other ladies for dinner dates and it was my lost. How can I lose something that I didn’t even know the guy? I’m glad I kept my boundaries because can you imagine if I went to dinner with the guy and he wanted to walk me home? crazy!