Rejection is feeling that you’ve not been shown due care (hence you feel uncared for) or being turned down, which leaves you feeling that you weren’t up to ‘standard’.
Things not working out and hearing/experiencing no is a part of life. We all go through it, although you’ll notice that those who cope with rejection, don’t call it ‘rejection’. They call it, for example, ‘breaking up’, ‘it not working out’, ‘not getting the job’, ‘the friendship growing apart’, ‘different priorities’, ‘a disagreement’, ‘they said NO’ etc.
Short of only ever being with one person, you will have to turn people down, let go, and break up with them, and vice versa.
Rejection is unavoidable.
Being able to say no, to opt out of situations, to admit when something isn’t working, is part of the natural order of freeing yourself up to be available for a mutual relationship.
Unfortunately, if you have found yourself in unavailable relationships, especially as a Fallback Girl (or guy), you have some major issues with rejection. You’re either taking it too hard and being derailed by it, or busting a gut to ensure you don’t experience it, even though you actually are.
Every day, I hear stories of people who are completely overwhelmed by rejection or repeatedly throwing themselves under the same rejection bus because they don’t want to deal with the pain of accepting someone’s choice in another person or their mistreatment.
They think they can make one or a number of rejections right by trying to get this person to validate them and unfortunately end up experiencing even more pain.
Or… they languish in the sorrow of the rejection and they end up living in the past, thinking about the coulda, woulda, shoulda, shaming and blaming themselves, and avoiding their present and future. The rejection triggers a previous rejection, plunging them into more pain.
What you need to realise about avoiding rejection, whether it’s by living in the past, fearing starting over and giving yourself a hard time about all of the things that you perceive as a rejection of you, or clinging to a one-trick three-legged horse and refusing to fold on a relationship that’s completely detracting from you, is:
All of this trying to dodge the rejection bullet is actually doing anything but what you intended because you are rejecting yourself.
The mindset that surrounds someone that thinks they’ve been rejected, arerejectionable, and that there’s external evidence to support their mindset means that the unhealthy beliefs and feeding the self-fulfilling prophecy automatically opt them out of anything that contradicts this perspective. They’re not participating actively in their lives and moving forward.
The two ‘easiest’ ways to avoid rejection in relationships are:
Don’t have any relationships. Or…
Get involved with someone who offers the least likely prospect of commitment or a relationship. Yep, an unavailable relationship.
These are ‘safe rejection’, but both still wind up being self-rejection.
I’ve had to learn to stop taking things to the nth degree, making everything about me, and seeing things not going my way as ‘rejection’. I’m pretty sure I used to get abandonment and rejection confused, hence why I’d feel so terrible. They’re two different things. Also, people not doing what you want isn’t rejection or abandonment; it’s just them doing their own thing.
Rejection paves the way to opening a new door in your life.
While it can, and often does, hurt, them doing what you may not be able to do for yourself, frees you up to gain perspective. You get to be available for yourself and a more fulfilling relationship. Of course, that’s if you’re not trying to avoid relationships.
While, occasionally, I see people being torn up about a relationship not working out with someone they had a mutual one with love, care, trust, and respect that has for whatever reason not worked out, the overwhelming majority of people I witness struggling with ‘rejection’, are struggling with feeling that they weren’t up to ‘standard’ for someone and a relationship that they shouldn’t have been available for in the first place. It’s back to ‘I can’t believe they don’t want me’ syndrome.
“Why am I not up to standard for someone and a situation that was undeserving me? OMG! I must be highly rejectionable!”
If you were actually in something that detracted from you and had a load of code amber and red warnings, them ‘turning you down’ is a blessing in disguise. Let them skip on down the street and find someone else to mess with.
Stop feeling bad about the fact that someone who you knew (whether you choose to admit it or not) had clear signs that they weren’t capable of being the person you wanted them to be or giving you the relationship you want didn’t ‘change’ for you.
The funny thing is, you not accepting someone is… rejection. You’re feeling rejected about the fact that they didn’t change from what you find rejectionable.
You don’t have to see rejection as something terrible.
You were in this relationship too. Instead of rejecting the truth of who they are or your relationship, accept it. Recognise that you’re ‘out’ for a damn good reason!
People are allowed to say NO to you. They are. Don’t panic though. It cuts both ways!
You can’t just wallow in pain or stick to a relationship that detracts from you like glue just because it’s better than feeling ‘rejection rejection‘.
Some of the things you see as rejection aren’t rejection. These people gave you an Early Opt-Out with no penalties, a difference of opinion, or no.
Them not changing = them not changing.
Different values = wanted different things = incompatibility
Don’t see your relationships as a ‘waste’ or that you are now ‘rejectionable’. Doing so writes off both bad and good times.
Not all relationships can or are meant to last. To wallow in rejection, or avoid it, is to also disregard the truth.
Maybe there are things you could have done differently, but guess what? You weren’t alone. Whatever your relationship was supposed to be, it’s been even if you would have preferred it be something different.
Instead of feeling crap about everything you didn’t get that you think you were entitled to, remember who they were and why it’s over. If there’s some good in there, great. But if what you’re mourning is the loss of what didn’t happen, don’t ‘waste’ your life by devoting it to taking up pain and rejection solitude as a vocation.
Same goes for dates. dating is a discovery phase! Trust me when I say you haven’t discovered anything so fabulous about a date that warrants you carrying on like they were the last chance saloon!
You wanted different things. You had a difference of opinion. They’re not ready for commitment whether it’s you in the hot seat or the Most Perfect Person in the Universe. Whatever it is, it’s not the definition of you.
This is great! I went into a tail spin because I was dumped by a guy who turned out to be a narcisstic online porn addict. My monkey brain told me if he did not want me… who would? Duh!!!!! It was not supposed to happen! This guy was also a hypchondriac. He married a doctor who now lives with a high maintenace patient (who also cheats) AND I am free as a BIRD!!!!! Hurray!!!!!!!!
Nicola
on 16/08/2011 at 10:58 pm
I cried my eyes out for weeks over my ex, who had a pretty decent record of cheating throughout his life, and a coke habit, ( you can see were this going) who, when he went into re-hab, guess what..yeah he cheated with some messed up bint…and I was suprised. LOL any way I took him back and two years of sobriety what did I discover…Im not even gonna write it…I was devastated…In honesty I would have rather he relapsed (there goes the unconditional love I was supposed to have) because I could’nt take the rejection. The conclusion that I come today is quite sobering really in that, It was’nt the drink or drugs he IS a complete tosser. Let this also be a warning to all the Renovators and Florence Nightingales…what you see is what you get, even with a 12 step programme in tow. What a total whack job Ive been.
Natasha
on 16/08/2011 at 11:16 pm
Nicola, you’re not alone! One of my friends, who is now happily married, was in a similar situation involving a jackass with a perma-sniffle. Her rationale for him cheating was that people do things when they are cracked-out that they wouldn’t normally do. Fine, but some people are so self destructive and messed up that there is no loving them out of it. Just like in your situation, hers got sober and he still did everything in his power to make their relationship a hot mess. You haven’t been a whack job at all! Sometimes this is how we learn.
Nicola
on 17/08/2011 at 7:38 am
No really, putting up with this crap, makes me a whack job. LOL LOL Hey Ho. Rejections tough though. But It does get easier because in the end you start to do the rejecting. Like when you see smoke!
Natasha
on 17/08/2011 at 3:47 pm
Girl, if that makes you a whack job…then I’m one too! Seriously, my ex was in his early 30’s and would have status messages up on Fbook at 9am saying he was “still partying”. Now I didn’t know or care to ask if that meant, “hoovering up massive mountains of cocaine, that’s why I’m still up from the night before, y’all!”, but obviously it’s not good and I knew he drank like a fish. I didn’t ask any questions (dumbass move, he was yapping about his drinking constantly – however, Florence-ing has never been one of my many jacked-up relationship moves), but I figured if he was addicted to something it would reveal itself (err, hello? something was revealing itself all over my Fbook newsfeed) and it wasn’t my problem to fix (the one rational statement in that sentence, FYI). Leave these guys to their self-destructive mess, you have better things to do and WAY better men to meet 🙂
You haven’t been a whack job Nicola as the others have said but you have been too hopeful, trusting, and blind. You couldn’t save this man from Jesse Jaming you – hang up the nurses uniform, find healthier purposes, and heed the lessons learned. I say this to every Florence and Renovator – if you have that great a need to be needed, to fix/heal/help, do charity work. There are so many wonderful causes, children without homes, animals waiting to be taken of that are a more appropriate use for your energy. All women do that love men with addictions and lying habits, is provide an obstacle to consequences and growth. His life is his to fuck up or fix – you don’t need to be in it.
Nicola
on 17/08/2011 at 5:50 pm
Thankyou NML. I know what your saying about the obsticales to consequences. But when your in it up to your neck the hardest thing is to let go. Its so painful to realise that again Im unlovable, and no thats not the reason, he was a walking talking snorting AC well before I came along. The thing is that he is swanning around our very small town out on dates with other women, wooing them with his sobriety and that he is a changed man now looking for The One…Im like SAY WHAT! Its just an awful place to be and Im holed up here because my life has shrunk to nothing whilst he syphoned off all the love, laughter and spirit, that he so loved when we first met. These relationships are so bloody painful. Im not going back though not ever again. I want to walk in the Sun, alone. That means for me no dating for along time. Why because if Im honest thats what Ive always wanted, but never given it to me.
Jennifer
on 19/08/2011 at 7:38 pm
Don’t be so hard on yourself, Nicola. Just know you are wiser now and will handle the situation more swiftly the next time. Seriously, be kind to yourself. It’s one of the most important things, I think.
Valley Forge Lady – After blinking a few times at your description of him, I think it’s safe to say you’ve had a lucky escape!
Clay Andrews
on 16/08/2011 at 10:37 pm
One thing I’ve noticed is that people that deal with rejection tend to place a lot of importance on other’s opinions (what fancy-pants psychologists call an “external locus of control”).
As a result, they really let other people’s opinions or rejections of them get the best of them.
But who really gets to decide how you feel and how you react to other people’s actions? Ultimately, you, yourself are responsible for how you feel.
No one can reject you unless you’ve first surrendered your own power to someone else and given them the authority to “reject” you.
PJM
on 17/08/2011 at 8:47 am
Clay, I agree – only I’d call it ‘over-investing’ or ‘investing too early’.
When you’ve put all your eggs in one bastard (as Dorothy Parker said), then you’re much more likely to take perceived ‘rejections’ very hard.
Solution? Don’t invest. I have had some guys drifting in and out of my radar recently, and I haven’t invested in any of them, so guess what? When they drift out, no hard feelings – in fact, no feelings at all.
Anyone else here heard the saying ‘Rejection is God’s protection’? I come back to that one from time to time when I think about some of the awful men I chose to go out with/be strung along by! Boy was I lucky to escape.
In fact – drumroll please – I have had some unsolicited VALIDATION recently! A married friend of mine who is going through a rough patch with her husband phoned me recently for a long chat. She knows my ex, and said to me ‘Having myself married a guy who is surgically attached to his parents, I think you have had a very lucky escape.’
Wise words Clay. I think that in some instances, whether we perceive it as a rejection or not, what someone is actually doing when they cross boundaries is rejecting being a respectful partner with integrity. That is what many people struggle with until they realise that instead of, as you say, giving them the power and taking it on, it’s recognising that they’re rejecting a lot of the stuff that comes with being in a mutual relationship, not because of you, but because it’s not who they are or what they want to be.
Karina
on 16/08/2011 at 10:41 pm
WOW….you hit the nail today Nat! Just now I got news that my ex’s new gf (my old ex friend) wrote a bunch of lies in her blog about me defaming her in my blog and in my twitter account every week. All lies! I’ve never even touched her name on persona on my blog. Needless to say, I’ve been thinking she was so much better than me for getting the best of him and being so happy. What it is all making me realize is how stupid I have been to even think this way. I gave this girl my trust and even if it was years later down the line, she betrayed it (even if we didn’t really keep in touch) and treats me like a stranger and the worse person in the world by lying about it.
To some extent this is all part of rejection, because I feel that by loving her and not me I am the worse of the bunch. When in reality he was the assclown all along. I am starting to accept my part in the relationship, but he has never owned any of his wrong doings and in his eyes and hers I was the crazy one just because I landed in the nut house once. I’m looking for some sort of validation and acknoloedgement from both of them that what they did was wrong, specially him. And what I need to realize is that that relationship alone does not define me. She is not better than me, because I was brave enough to get out of that miserable life and I can move on even with the pain, because it slowly, but surely sill pass. So help me God.
I replied to you on Twitter earlier. The key with this is that this man represents a very painful chapter in your life but you don’t own him or his progression. You and her are not friends although you were a few years back, but while their actions are insensitive and she has leveraged the shared history you had with him, it’s not ‘wrong’ for them to be with each other because you don’t own either of them but their individual treatment of you is certainly inappropriate. Ultimately, you’ll be blue in the face trying before you get that validation, not least because she may not have viewed you as friends for quite a while, and the truth is – neither did you. You don’t love her now and what’s between you is from times gone by. She hasn’t chosen him over you because whatever loyalty and friendship there was had passed – she’s just doing what a lot of women do – chasing love at all costs and trying to be the exception to the rule. Let it go. She’s clearly a twit mouthing off but as I said to you in New York, stop showing them that you give a damn. Trust me – a woman who is as happy as she claims to be, doesn’t fanny around writing shite like that on Twitter and her blog. Me thinks she doth protest too much.
Karina
on 17/08/2011 at 3:08 pm
As I read this with tears in my eyes…I completely agree with you Nat. I need to let all this pain go and move on once and for all. I just didn imagine that this episode with them would hurt me so much. I’m still in therapy which is good,, but I think I need a good cry to let it all out for good. Thanks again….you have been way more patient and understanding than my friends!
Natasha
on 16/08/2011 at 10:44 pm
Awesome, just awesome 🙂 Sometimes in these situations the unavailable person comes to recognize that they can’t give you the relationship you want and, being basically a decent person, opts out. That’s not rejection! Hell, I’d rather that than what happened in my last go-around with my ex, i.e. the guy knew he didn’t want a relationship with me, but stuck around feeding me bull until it became too much of an effort for him. That’s not rejection either!
One of my friends was dating a great, emotionally available guy and, two months in, his family had a major crisis. He ended things with her, not because she wasn’t good enough to magically make him able to handle both a major life event and a budding-into-serious relationship, but because he knew he couldn’t give her what she needed and that his focus needed to be on his family. He told her straight up, “You deserve more than what I can give you right now and my family really needs me.” She was sad, but didn’t take it as a rejection, because it had jack to do with her. Whether it’s a great relationship, a sh*tty relationship or a “meh.” relationship, like Nat says, you can’t hang your value on what someone else chooses to do/not do!
Elle
on 17/08/2011 at 1:27 am
That last line is true, Natasha. I remember oscillating on that because the AC told me he had to end things because he did not like me as a person, and had been pretending to be happy and want a future with me. In other words, he tied his choice to me as a person. That was tough. But still, all along, I had this huge part of me inside going, ‘Well, what can you do about that?’ I had treated him kindly, reliably and honestly, and so it was all that other stuff – the rest of the way I am – that he wasn’t into. Again, you can’t really do much about that. It’s someone’s preference. It was actually this great opportunity to take my caravan elsewhere, and even to give it a bit of a polish (I like my caravan!).
Apart from all that, I have recognised from these experiences that what people say when they’re heading out the door is pretty dubious. People say all sorts of things to make them feel better about their own decisions, that they may or may not understand, that may come from hugely personal impulses and fears, or just superficial, selfish thoughts that they’d like to explore something or someone else in life.
And, yes, yes, Natalie, I have to remember this too, especially now that in a new relationship:
I’ve had to learn to stop taking things to the nth degree, making everything about me, and seeing things not going my way as ‘rejection’. I’m pretty sure I used to get abandonment and rejection confused hence why I’d feel so terrible – they’re two different things but also people not doing what you want isn’t rejection or abandonment; it’s just people doing their own thing.
It’s that selfishness that gets you in hot/cold relationships – where you will be nice and attentive if you’re getting what you want, and getting feelings and perceptions projected back to you from the other. Whereas, once you realise the other person is separate – and may want to do their own thing (even something routine), the default of the assclown (and related tendencies) is to withdraw and belittle, perceiving it as rejection. So true – really, it’s not that dramatic.
Natasha
on 17/08/2011 at 6:27 am
“Apart from all that, I have recognised from these experiences that what people say when they’re heading out the door is pretty dubious.”
Oh, true story Elle. If someone was an AC in the relationship, I think it’s about a one in a million chance that they are not going to act like one when they are ending it. It’s kind of funny, because my ex-AC was an ass when things ended and I was shocked. I mean, really? Was I was expecting him to say, “Now that this thing is over and I’ve gotten what I wanted, I’m going to do a total about-face and be respectful to this woman that I haven’t actually had respect for while I boomeranged in and out of her life for five years.”? Not likely.
Fact is, someone can “not like you as a person” (Who says that? For serious. Your caravan is awesome.) and the relationship can still end with everyone’s dignity intact, despite any hurt feelings. If someone’s Decency Quotient is in the negatives, it’s that much harder. Couple that with us on the other end with some self-esteem /blame absorbtion/Jedi mind trick issues and it can snowball into, “Ohmygod. They don’t want to be with me. I’ve been rejected.” and the reality of how unhealthy the whole thing was to begin with can get lost in the Rejection Shuffle (a highly depressing dance – I don’t recommend it for parties.)
I’m so excited for you that your new relationship is going well. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you sharing about that – I’m sure that should I meet someone normal to have dinner with, I’m going to deal with some of the same stuff. Enjoy it – you deserve it 🙂
MissE
on 17/08/2011 at 9:01 am
Elle, this is so true!
“Apart from all that, I have recognised from these experiences that what people say when they’re heading out the door is pretty dubious. People say all sorts of things to make them feel better about their own decisions, that they may or may not understand…”
—My ex AC said all kinds of contradictory things upon breaking up with me. In the same sentence in which he said it wasn’t me and he was just stressed with work he went on to accuse me of being “too resistant” (yeah…no surprise there, not always bending to his AC whims), “liking to go back and forth too much in conversation” (no kidding, I thought a convo was about a back and forth exchange!) and “liking to play fight too much”….WTF?! During a year and a 1/2 of back and forth, his complaints changed and he also had NO recollection of why he broke up with me, citing that I was the only gf he had no reason to break up with, saying I was a “good match” for him and the list goes on of all my great qualities.
Soooo yea…with ACs, it is all up for grabs and one really should give little weight to what a lot of them supposedly feel and think as they barely know themselves and are so broken that truly, their rejection should be welcomed. When my ex tried to pretend he was doing a noble thing by freeing me, it made me so upset, but now, I am eternally grateful that our relationship crashed and burned when it did! I am sure he was not being thoughtful or noble, but the Universe sure has a way of working things out despite that. I am glad he rejected me and I am glad that even when he came back and tried to pretend to change, he rejected me some more, as now I realize 1000% that he was NOT the one for me and I had plenty issues to work out myself. I am currently working on them and this article made me feel great tonight about the rejection by my recent EUM too, as I am certain he is not for me either and I am saving myself the heartache before I get in way too deep.
I think the moral of the story here is when you have been involved with someone who didn’t treat you that well/struggled to be honest/you regard as being an AC, never expect an ‘honesty’ in the breakup. Why break the habit of a lifetime?
SM
on 19/08/2011 at 4:08 am
Wow did we all date the same person? I love this website, I never even knew that I was being boomeranged til I found this blog. I knew I was attracted eum’s and/or ac’s but I didnt quite know the signs… I’m grateful for the words of wisdom various people post on here. My last eum/ac run in broke up with me and I remember being relieved and not feeling rejected at all, just walked away and thanked him. I didnt chase him, nothing its not normally my style but then he came back and I thought well maybe he’s seen the lite, then he started disappearing and coming back with me thinking he just couldnt do without me, how dumb. By the fourth time it was like I was beat down into feeling rejected, had I just not taken him back after the first and only real break up, I would have been spared. I never, ever want to feel that way again.
Ah your AC Elle was a real piece of work. It’s always good to remember that emotionally dishonest people are never going to be in a position to be truly honest about their reasons for breaking up nor are they ever going to own up to their part.
And it really is their own thing. If we remove ourselves out of the equation and remember that we can’t perform Jedi mind tricks and that unless they are a schizophrenic, they are not changing their personality *for* us, we realise they’re showing us themselves.
Elle
on 17/08/2011 at 3:27 pm
Thanks, Natalie! It’s all good! I even laugh about the fact that he was so unashamedly clear (brutal, one might say) in his not-into-me stance. It is actually pretty funny. Now, that is. But, yeah, Natasha, that oscillation I talked about is the rejection dance you brilliantly referred to. There’s definitely a perfomance-element to it all, and therefore, as Nat says, a choice. Thanks for the sweet thoughts, ladies, and best wishes MissE.
Mango
on 17/08/2011 at 6:49 pm
“It’s always good to remember that emotionally dishonest people are never going to be in a position to be truly honest about their reasons for breaking up nor are they ever going to own up to their part.”
Ooooh, I really needed to hear that! It’s seems so simple, and basic, and obvious, but apparently I am daft, as a lightbulb just went off! I’ve been really struggling with some things, and this really helps me to clarify it.
Thank you for this, and for this amazing post, which I need to read a few more times for it to really sink in. Still feeling rejected 😛
Your friend’s situation is so true! It’s just not that personal! It’s a pain in the ass but you cannot fault him for being upfront.
Natasha
on 17/08/2011 at 2:49 pm
Agreed Nat! They worked together at the time and it was a total drama-free situation – he was a decent guy in a crappy situation and the timing was off. She, in turn, didn’t make it about her! It’s funny, because I’ve been guilty of thinking in the past, “I know this guy has always been a user and a raging jackass for five years…but, maybe he couldn’t be decent to me when things ended because….he hates his job/he has a headache/his favorite pair of shoelaces broke.” Errrrr, lesson learned!
valley forge lady
on 16/08/2011 at 10:51 pm
Clay……….. You are a wise young Man! Luv Ya!
Sarah T
on 16/08/2011 at 10:58 pm
Fabulous timing! I just had a suck it and see evening with the ex. I was nervous, yes, but willing to remember that he was someone I’d once liked enough to date. I’d not forgotten that he finished things with me but I’ve been so gloomy about being rejected that I wanted the dark cloud to lift. So, I saw him to exchange items we both needed to return to each other. We chatted, we had coffee and it was nice. I see him more now as a person, not the man who rejected me. More like a great guy who I spent 7 months with who happens to mot be in a place where he can offer me what I need. So, ‘what’s wrong with me’? Nothing! I’m ok. I just can’t/won’t be happy settling for less than something that will make me happy. The relationship was doomed from the start as I knew he was EUM. At the time, the breakup sucked but now I feel a sense of c’est la vie and I recognise that we’re rejecting each others chosen paths, not each other as people.
It’s quite a nice feeling.
Nicola
on 16/08/2011 at 11:39 pm
Sarah,
You’re a better person than me…I saw my ex last week and thought what a dickhead he looked in flip flops. Thankgod he did reject me…the shame of walking down our High Street with him would have killed me. He looked like Donald Duck.
“I recognise that we’re rejecting each others chosen paths, not each other as people.” Brilliant Sarah T
Mika
on 16/08/2011 at 11:01 pm
A lot of people misconstrue the truth behind the rejection as them not being “good enough.”
Our mind filters our experiences in several ways–creating our perspective of life.
1.) Our mind will delete certain factors–only seeing what we want to see. 2.) Our mind will also distort or add things that aren’t really there 3.) Our mind takes certain experiences and generalizes them–creating stereotypical beliefs.
When it comes down to it, the way our mind filters our reality solely depends on how we feel about our selves. Your deeply rooted negative beliefs about yourself WILL impact the way you perceive your life.
If one of your beliefs is that you aren’t lovable… in some way, you’ll filter situations, trying to prove to yourself that you AREN’T lovable.
Our mind can seriously be such a bull sh** machine if you let it.
What’s help me change my negative beliefs about myself is POSITIVE FOCUSING… When we focus on what we WANT instead of don’t want to happen, we are going towards something rather than away from it.
When you’re avoiding something through negative focusing… you’re left walking in the dark with no direction. However, if you focus on what you WANT… you at least have a light to show you which direction to go:)
Thanks for sharing Mika. I have found that people who don’t feel they’re good enough look for constant examples (particularly from the media and peers) in real life to justify the mentality even though there are many other things contradicting it.
Mango
on 17/08/2011 at 6:57 pm
So true. This reminds me of a dance class years ago, when someone had given me a hard time about missing a step, and stepped on his foot, by accident, of course! I was overweight, felt offended and was upset.
The instructor came up to me in the locker room and said,”Why do you give so much power to one person, when so many people, myself included, think you’re amazing?”
Wise words. Things that you make you go hhmmmm…….
anoosh
on 16/08/2011 at 11:32 pm
this is a great follow-up to the last one on rumination, obsession, etc. I am back here today not because of that, but because I was just confronted with the exEUM/AC last night after 6+ months of NC, calling from an unfamiliar #. and I caught him in a ridiculous lie within minutes. just when I felt I had made a very big step forward in healing, and was taking a “rumination holiday”. this issue of rejection is so big, I really want to focus on that, and not start having unhealthy thoughts b/c of this call.
sometimes I wonder: I have a whole bunch of girlfriends like me, in their 40’s, 50’s, who are still single/no kids, seeming to always attract the commitmentphobes, going through patterns described here for EU. but for all, incl. me, our parents didn’t split up, they were all happily married for 50+ years! no family is perfect and without conflict or issues. but the reality is our model was truly “for better or worse”. when you really love someone, you don’t leave b/c of problems. my sister’s still married the guy she met at 18. and most of these single female friends have siblings who are in very long term marriages. I can look back to my first big breakup at age 19 with 1st love, absolutely devastated, even though he behaved like a jerk (really). I could not wrap my head around the concept of breaking up, for 2 people in love. it’s as if there’s an unwritten universal law in my psyche: when you & someone else mutually decide you love each other, that bond is FOREVER. it’s a cultural thing too, my mom is from Middle East. there was no such thing as divorce, no matter what. her parents had an arranged marriage. my dad is American, but I absolutely had those old-world values imprinted on my being. my mother’s older sister moved here w/her family, and her husband ended up leaving her after 35 years for a younger woman. she had a total breakdown, as did her 2 daughters, none of them to this day has EVER recovered (25+ years). I understand that their way of commitment and attachment to family developed from 1000’s of years of survival (minority group) — literally, the family IS everything. leaving is unfathomable. and I’m starting to think somehow, in my brain, that has gotten raveled in to the whole EU/rejection sensitivity issues. sigh…
Anoosh, I don’t think it’s just a Middle Eastern thing – most people *everywhere* got married up until the 50s and 60s. We have Caribbean, African, English, and Irish cultural influences in our family – all of these were stick together no matter what in the past. Yes some of the cultural aspects of the Middle East (eg standing within the community) certainly mean that being left can deal a huge blow but I’ve heard variations of your aunt’s story many times over several cultures. And here’s the truth of it – having a no break up stance could only ever work if the two of you are in mutual agreement about it. In Ireland where I was brought up and I know there’s a few readers that can attest to it, women have stayed with men like your ex at 19 that remained EXACTLY the same. When divorce came in the 90s, I literally watched families break apart. The pretence was OVER. And lots of readers of BR come from families with happy marriages – it’s your perception of what a relationship entails, choices in partners, beliefs, self-esteem etc that affects who you end up with.
And I’m sorry but when you really love someone, you love them in reality. Problems don’t break a relationship because shit happens. Relationships need to ride the smooth with the rough. But fundamental character and values differences that erode you and the relationship are not ‘problems’ – they are ticking time bombs that will explode. Cheating, lying, beating, disappearing, verbal and emotional abuse, mind fuckery, not being in the relationship, still being attached to someone else – these are not ‘problems’. They are crater sized holes in your relationship.
Re your ex – it’s just a phonecall. He’s still who he is plus he slipped in some porkies. You have to start asking yourself what you have to ruminate over? List it.
anoosh
on 17/08/2011 at 5:08 pm
“slipped in some porkies”, lmao! have no idea what that means but it sounds hilarious! been doing the lists thing for a long time, rrgghh. I’m sure the ruminating stems from many of the things you talk about frequently — not letting go of the fantasy of who they are in the beginning despite lots of A/C proof in the present, not knowing when to fold, last chance saloon, etc. since that phone call, I’ve felt strangely numb. which is great, actually. maybe it means I’m finally over it! ’bout time. that would be fabulous.
couldn’t agree more, absolutely about this phenomenon across cultures the world over. what I’ve wondered about more are the friends like me who had an example of very strong commitment & families as our model, and have had trouble finding it in our own lives. it seems as if many of us developed very naive and romanticized ideas about love, susceptible to falling too easily in love. and we weren’t prepared for how relationships very often get treated as disposable, how easily people could walk away after years of commitment. I know I was never given any kind of direction for how to deal with rejection or heartbreak. just had no concept about processing letting go of a romantic attachment. I don’t know if this observation is of any significance. my mind just never rests, always wanting explanations for everything. I should’ve gotten PhD (too bad at math & science) :)!
many more thoughts on the cultural things, talk about it w/my friends whose families are from the region all the time. don’t like being on stage, but for fun I was thinking of putting together a stand-up act on the topic from a female POV, b/c some of the stuff is hysterical. omg, “boundaries”? what’s that?!! it’s like “My Big Fat Greek Wedding” x 100. or more.
One of my closest friends – her parents blissfully happy for a gazillion years. She’s always dated dipsticks. Her dad was the type of guy she wanted to settle down with in the end but she liked the fun and being treated mean and kept keen by Mr Unavailables. Her parents may be happy and absolutely love her to death but that doesn’t make her the most confident person on earth. To be honest and she admits this – she always thought when she was ready to settle that it would just happen and a marriable guy would just come along. And also – like many women, she thought that you get attracted to the guy, you love him to death and then you settle. She didn’t reckon being messed around. She’s often liked Mr Unavailable – she didn’t enjoy the behaviours that come with the package. It was ‘Act now, think later’ and it’s the usual moral of the story – nothing wrong with fun and excitement but if you make a habit of being with Mr Unavailables that don’t always treat you in the best of ways, even if you started out with good self-esteem, you end up taking a few knocks and being out of sync with what you really want.
I’ll come to the stand up!
RadioGirl
on 17/08/2011 at 8:54 pm
Thank you, Anoosh and Natalie, for your thoughts above. Like Anoosh and her friends, I’m in my early 50’s and from a secure family with parents who’ve been married over 60 years and still very much in love. And yet my older sister and I have both had relationships with A/C’s and EUM’s. I was puzzled by this, but as Natalie says, having parents that are happily married and who love you to death doesn’t necessarily make you the most confident person on earth. And I agree with Anoosh that coming from a background of parents with a long and secure marriage maybe we’re just naive about love and overly trusting of the other person in our own relationships without doing the “due diligence” first. I guess because my lovely Dad isn’t the sort to mess people around, I’ve been totally blindsided by the ability of men I’ve been involved with to have such a totally different set of values to his, that they would treat me without the love, care, trust and respect that just goes without saying in my own family. I’m just amazed that I hadn’t ever joined up the dots and realised that I’ve actually been involved with the same guy different package many times since my late teens! Until now, that is… I was totally devastated by my breakup in February (after he literally ran off at Heathrow Airport at the end of our holiday, which he had spent being unbelieveably spineless, self-centred and heartless almost the whole time). I literally had a breakdown, lost a stone in weight in 3 weeks, couldn’t sleep, could barely drag myself into work, and felt utterly rejected and inconsolable. I’ve been NC for just over 2 months now, and after a *lot* of reading through the BR archives and weekly therapy, all the lessons that life has been repeatedly showing me (and which Natalie points out to us here) are at last starting to sink in, the unbearable pain has gradually been receding and my self-esteem is building bit by bit. It has taken the wake-up call of being so badly shaken physically, mentally and emotionally by this last relationship to start making the effort to do life differently. It’s hard to break the habits of a lifetime of what really amounts to self-neglect, and sometimes the baby steps are frustratingly small, but I’m incredibly grateful for the wonderful resource that you provide here, Natalie. Thank you so much.
ICanDoBetter
on 17/08/2011 at 5:59 pm
My parents are coming up on 50 years of marriage. They have definitely had their problems, but have stayed together all these years. But I don’t believe that just because a couple is together long-term necessarily means their marriage is a healthy example. I learned a lot watching my parents. My dad was often absent for work, and when he was home, he was still absent, watching TV or napping on the sofa, while my Mom ran around making the house nice, cooking, keeping us kids from disturbing him. She basically raised us by herself. My dad was/is also very controlling, and I have never gotten a clear picture of who my mom really is, because she was always so busy morphing into whatever she needed to be to accomodate his moods.
I too was never taught how to deal with rejection or heartbreak. The only example I saw was to bend over backward to try and keep someone happy. So, basically I was taught to avoid rejection at all costs.
This is only one example, but I think I always equated a marriage/relationship with completely losing yourself, and that example has definitely scared me off “commitment”.
Makes me wonder if other women who are surrounded by long-term relationships, but don’t choose healthy partners, are maybe have never seen the difference between healthy long-term, and just plain old commitment out of obligation or fear.
Magnolia
on 17/08/2011 at 12:34 am
“I’ve had to learn to stop taking things to the nth degree, making everything about me, and seeing things not going my way as ‘rejection’. I’m pretty sure I used to get abandonment and rejection confused hence why I’d feel so terrible…”
Can I add that another thing we might confuse with rejection is humiliation? I remember another reader’s comment where a break up reminded her of some guys or girls that had pretended to like her, then told her the “truth.”
As a pre-teen I was told often, probably just to see my reaction, that I was ugly, a dog, disgusting, etc and explicitly forced to listen to guys pretending to puke at the thought of touching me or kissing me or even coming within the radius of my apparent smell. They would imagine sexual scenarios out loud and then retch and laugh, etc.
This wasn’t a simple “I don’t want to date you.” Obviously it was way more than that. But they did a very good job of blurring my sense of a guy not being interested in me with the sense that I was a freak of nature and physically revolting. I would do a lot not to feel the feelings associated with that group sexual bullying.
I took any guy’s interest as “proof” I wasn’t what those guys said; so a guy’s disinterest unfortunately became proof that I was. I would do a lot not to lose proof that I was not disgusting.
It’s no small task to disassociate the reality of things not working out with an old, stupid message of “you are too disgusting for anyone (worthy) to ever want to work things out with you.” To disassociate the message from reality mentally is one relatively easy hurdle. To let the feelings in the body come – shame, fury, fear – as they do if I actually let myself like someone and risk their rejection, but not to believe those feelings, is another hurdle.
I know I have protected myself by choosing Unavailables: I never *really* liked them in the first place, so I never have to risk things not working out making me feel the way I felt when I did still really like the boys I liked.
Through this blog and other work, I’m getting to the place where I can make really liking someone a possibility again. What I choose to really like is about me. Even if what I really like doesn’t want me, it stings, but I think I can finally handle the idea that not everything/everyone that I love and want needs to love or want me back.
Wise words Magnolia. I think you have to continue to find your way and create an identity on your own terms by whatever means necessary. All I can say from personal experience is that I’ve been called many names, experienced things that made me believe I was a piece of shit, and would still experience a level of discomfort if I recall certain experiences. You’re only human, you can’t erase your past but your head is facing in the wrong direction because the more you look forward and work on now and the future, is the less those things impact you, is the more you can go when you recall a situation “Ah that’s discomfort at remembering something that hurt me” as opposed to “Hello shame”. The situations, the experiences, the people are gone and in the past so they have no more power over you – you do. You get to decide how you feel about you.
Janis
on 17/08/2011 at 2:44 pm
Magnolia, OMG, I could have written your post! I had the same type of experiences when I was a pre-teen and teen; boys saying things in front of me about how repulsive I was and how they’d rather die than kiss me. I just never before connected it with the issues I have now with rejection, but everything you said totally rings true for me.
You’ve given me some things to think about …
Lily
on 17/08/2011 at 8:34 pm
I think many of us with issues surrounding rejection and EUM actually experienced a lot of rejection with our peers during childhood. So even though I came from a very tight knit and loving family, my horrendous experiences in middle and high school have a lot to do with my fear of intimacy today. It was really painful!
Nicola
on 19/08/2011 at 6:27 pm
Ive just read this post by you Magnolia. I cannot beleive what I read, that treatment of you was so vile, Im totally at a loss for words. I hope you know that you have a safe place here. Everything you contribute is valid and nothing but love is felt for you. xxxx
Hey Natalie, You are welcome! I love what you do…and the pic too!
Robin
on 17/08/2011 at 12:49 am
It’s like you have to make a decision and stick with it, whether it’s staying in the relationship or opting out, and at the same time realize you have the choice to do either. Obsessing and blaming yourself over a decision to stay or even the decision to break up is not making a decision. It’s avoiding taking responsibility for the choices you make every moment.
Such good timing, tonight I discovered my ex-EUM-AC-teammate has sold another batch of his sports equipment which we used together.
The first time he did this after ditching the team eg me I was slighted by the rejection. I felt he was trying to erase the memories, especially as he also sold his sports car.
This time however I felt indifferent if not positive. Time does heal.
It certainly does and just remember – he’s just selling equipment. It might be because he’s low on cash, he might be upgrading, he might not have any space anymore or he might not even be exercising.
Jasmine
on 17/08/2011 at 1:26 am
Natalie,
Another great post. In the work I have been doing myself over the last year, I came to the realization that I suffer from low self-esteem. Rejection can be devastating blow when you don’t understand that about yourself. I had to work hard to get approval from my single parent, an ambivalent father, and I didn’t understand until recently that was how I approached my adult relationships. Either completely give what I could to EUMs, or hold back and not really try (therefore not be available to true rejection and abandonment).
In my last ex, I ended up attracting a man who always had one foot out the door and never fully appreciated me or my efforts to make the relationship work. He said lovely, lovely, things to me about my value to him, our future, a family, in the beginning. When he no longer wanted to be in the relationship, he suddenly broke up with me in about 20 minutes. I had been on the verge of moving in (his suggestion, months before). We hadn’t argued, or had a serious discussion about wanting different things, it was out of the blue. When I asked him why, he placed the reasons solely on me, the level of my performance. He told me it was because I didn’t cycle, we had different energy levels, I worried too much about things, I didn’t have more friends to introduce him to, and that I hadn’t been there for him at times (in our two year relationship I didn’t go to a couple of parties with him because I was tired, that’s the only thing I could guess he meant). We aren’t teenagers, but in our late 30’s, and yet the conversation felt like we were in high school. He continued to say that although we were still having “good times”, these things about me were why he wasn’t happy. That was all he gave me. While in shock, and trying to understand, hearing all of this for the first time, (he revealed me he’d been struggling for months, but outwardly he had only been affectionate and happy around me, introducing me to his parents, telling me he loved me ect) I asked why he hadn’t spoken up about being unhappy or having reservations. He told me it was because he didn’t want me to jump through hoops to make him happy. In other words, his lack of integrity, open and honest communication, was because of me, what I might do. Objectively, I know it wasn’t actually personal, and he did me a favor, but again, actually being told by the one you love you failed them somehow (because they can never say exactly how) is extremely painful.
Jasmine, your ex is a pisstaker. “He told me it was because I didn’t cycle, we had different energy levels, I worried too much about things, I didn’t have more friends to introduce him to, and that I hadn’t been there for him at times (in our two year relationship I didn’t go to a couple of parties with him because I was tired”
Now these are the reasons he gave but as Grace and others pointed out, people say all sorts of inaccurate shit when they break up. They want to break up. They often need to give a reason – in his case, it’s like he bent over and talked out of his arse.
A man in his late 30s who already had his foot out the door, giving excuses of this nature for breaking up, is only demonstrating what a completely immature twit he is.
He failed you many times – you seem to be forgetting that. Never try to make a relationship work where you’re the only one trying to do it. He’s just not that special. He’s also a coward and a tit.
RadioGirl
on 17/08/2011 at 9:58 pm
Natalie, you could just as easily have been writing about my ex there as about Jasmine’s. Except that, depressingly, mine wasn’t in his late 30’s but is 53 years old. Like Jasmine, my ex put all the blame for the failure of our relationship on superficial things about me and how our lifestyles and interests were incompatible. Funnily enough, when he talked about his previous failed relationships, it was always their fault too, never his. One (his ex-wife) was “too thick”, another “too controlling” and another was “barking mad”. How disrespectful was that!!!??? Why on earth didn’t I notice those outsized red flags flapping wildly around when I heard him talk about them like that? Too blinded by what I thought was love at the time, I guess. The really important things that were incompatible about us, which I doubt at his age he will ever have the insight to realise, were our basic life values – his are so far removed from the ones I grew up with that it’s no wonder being with him ended up making me so ill – my subconscious self must have been working overtime to get me to reject him!
Natalie – “They often need to give a reason – in his case, it’s like he bent over and talked out of his arse ” – the mental picture I had of that just had me roaring with laughter 😀
wicked74
on 17/08/2011 at 1:28 am
Great timing on this post. I have recently ended my marriage and unfortunately, he still lives here as I am not going to throw him into the streets. What I took away from this post was being ok with decisions you make and not making them into a personal rejection. I know that he does not see it this way but I am not rejecting him as a person, I am rejecting him as my husband. It is not my job to say that he can’t be a good husband to someone else. Someone who has a completely different idea of good husband than me! He has certainly been an EUM and an asshat but there may be someone who is fine with that – who am I to say?
“It’s unavoidable and being able to say NO, to opt out of situations, to admit when something isn’t working, is part of the natural order of freeing yourself up to be available for a mutual relationship. ” You know what else it is? MATURE. It’s mature to be able to admit your own culpability in a doomed relationship. It’s mature to say that your own fear of rejection made you marry someone totally unsuitable in every way possible.
Taking this stance on rejection will help me immensely as I deal with this fallout. Thanks for another insightful post, Nat!
“It is not my job to say that he can’t be a good husband to someone else.” – very true Wicked74. At the end of the day, you wanted different things. The relationship wasn’t working for you.
Nevertoolate!
on 17/08/2011 at 2:37 am
I was so sick of my MM telling me that if he was not married; we would be in a real relationship. It used to make my heart skip, because I thought we had this connection, which may or not be true, but so what? Now, I realize that each time I was paid this “compliment” (gag me!), I was in reality being rejected, each instance provided false hope which in turn never happened, resulting in rejection! By sticking around, I was perpetuating this vicious cycle of rejection. Lesson learned! Thanks again Natalie!
Thank you for another well-timed post.
I am struggling with rejection right now, and you rephrased it in just the right way. This will be bookmarked as a favorite for the next time a guy and I “want different things”!
I really identified with your comment, and maybe in some ways you didn’t even intend for. I sure as hell am guilty of seeing rejection as not being good enough. As an OW (I guess I need accept that he ended it, and I am indeed an ex OW now…that stings to admit), I felt in constant competition with his wife and, sadly, his kids. When he ended it last week I kept thinking, “I lost. I’m not good enough”. My whole relationship with him was based on me trying to prove myself worthy of his love, more worthy than someone else, and when it all came to a head, I felt defeated and unloved and rejected.
You wrote: “When it comes down to it, the way our mind filters our reality solely depends on how we feel about ourselves” – bingo. Having low self-esteem and little confidence in myself, I didn’t think I deserved to be respected and cared for properly. As Natalie has said in a previous post, my managed-down expectations kept getting lower and I accepted less and less from this man. I lost myself in searching for that special phrase, text/email, that light at the end of the tunnel, to pick me back up and make me feel wanted by him – that’s not love, and it’s certainly not healthy. I was constantly anxious and upset and longing. So much longing.
Contrary to your post, I AM focusing on the negative right now – thinking about how miserable I was in the relationship, how often I cried and how he never gave me what I needed. I made all of that easy for him, but it’s not what I want – I want to be happy and loved fully and, by being a mistress, I was being constantly rejected…I just didn’t realize it.
I’m still at that stage where my heart would leap if he came back to me saying he made a mistake, but I hope that if and when that day does come, I will be in a place where I can “reject” him. I’m not there yet, but I have some hope.
Audrey
on 17/08/2011 at 1:22 pm
Bri,
I think this relationship with this guy has been very painful for you – as you say full of longing and “if onlys” and full of highs and lows and i think it has affected your self esteem, it is bound to have. It’ll take some time to heal from this experience and find peace of mind again. I think you never had peace of mind while in the r/s with him. Now, you can breathe again -the anxiety, uncertainty and turmoil is at an end. I always say *you cannot put a price on peace of mind*. To me, my peace of mind is worth everything to me. I wish you the best on your road to recovery.
And the truth is Bri, you could never compete with someone’s children and you shouldn’t want to. OWs start out in a default position of being at least second best giving you the opportunity to ‘fight’ for pole position. Start relationships on a level footing and don’t set yourself up in situations where he has to ‘choose’ you over someone else.
Mika
on 18/08/2011 at 5:41 am
Bri,
Hoping that one day saying “no” to him is a good sign that you’re headed in the right direction. At least you know what you want AND what you deserve. The first step about changing your current mindset about needing him, is rediscovering your self-worth.
Our deepest negative beliefs about ourselves are stemmed from our negative experiences in our childhood. Even though our conscious minds KNOW what we want, our subconscious mind is the one steering the wheel. And what your subconscious mind believes is what the little girl inside of you believes.
Our subconscious mind will always try to prove to ourselves that we aren’t worthy, smart, pretty (and the list goes on) enough through self sabotage —>(i. e, you going after a relationship that you KNEW was doomed to begin with).
However, we CAN change our subconscious mind’s negative beliefs about ourselves and in doing so, we improve our lives for the better in ALL aspects.
You WILL get to that point when someday, you can tell him and other men (in your future relationships) that you are a woman WORTHY of love, respect and happiness.
Once you start loving yourself unconditionally, you’ll be attracting the right kind of men and the relationship you crave for.
Remember Bri, you MUST attract love… and never demand it.. And the best way to do it is to know to the DEPTHS of your core– that you are a beautiful, strong, radiant woman that doesn’t need any man to complete her… because she completes herself..
and THAT is the root behind successful relationships..is when each individual person doesn’t NEED each other to feel complete:)
sending you good vibes,
<3 Mika
runnergirl
on 17/08/2011 at 2:59 am
“I’m pretty sure I used to get abandonment and rejection confused hence why I’d feel so terrible – they’re two different things but also people not doing what you want isn’t rejection or abandonment; it’s just people doing their own thing.” You know Natalie, you just have a way with hitting this stuff out of the ball park. You just summed up my entire 52 years with one simple, clear sentence. It’s just people doing their own thing? I’m not disregarding , denying or dismissing the string of AC’s, EUM’s, greedy MM’s, and physically and emotionally abusive males I’ve been involved with but sometimes people can just be doing their own thing and it isn’t my father abandoning, rejecting, or not having enough time for me?
My ex MM didn’t reject or abandone me? He lied to me. His lies were about him? I’m not being rejected or abandoned?
Magnolia
on 17/08/2011 at 7:45 am
Hmm, runner, your last question is a good one. Because I would have thought, yes, of course the MM abandons the OW. All the time. But the fundamental thing is how the OW is rejecting herself by putting her heart in the care of an abandoner. The OW is the one who truly knows her inner self, that small voice and her own heartbeat and needs to treasure it.
I do think it makes sense to say he isn’t rejecting YOU because the real you doesn’t want to futz around with a married guy; the real you wants love and support and honesty, but you never showed him the real you in that relationship, anyway. You weren’t showing YOU the real you. At that point you were rejecting the part of yourself that deserved constancy and cherishing.
I dunno. Seems almost too easy to chime in with a POV on other folks – when I’m the one who needs to read and reread Getting Out of Stuck.
AdrienneBytheSea
on 17/08/2011 at 11:01 am
Magnolia, I am printing out your words and taping them to my bathroom mirror and sending them to my smart phone so I can read them whenever I have a nostalgic moment (I’m two weeks NC today from the ex MM who I was with for six years and who I rejected, in the end). This so hit home for me: “The OW is rejecting herself by putting her heart in the care of an abandoner.” And these lines: “The real you doesn’t want to futz around with a married guy; the real you wants love and support and honesty, but you never showed him the real you in that relationship, anyway. You weren’t showing YOU the real you. At that point you were rejecting the part of yourself that deserved constancy and cherishing.” This is so the heart of the matter for me right now, keeping the focus on me and why I did that rejecting of myself. I am seeing that for me it goes back to deep childhood issues of having been taught to take care of everyone else’s needs (notably, my mother’s) first. I see the connection between waiting hours for my mom to pick me up after school when I was six, seven, eight, nine years old and waiting days, weeks, etc for the MM to decide to stop by when it was convenient for him (there are more examples, but I’ll leave it at that). The REAL me knows I deserve much better. That dysfunctional pattern runs deep, but I am glad that being aware is the first step on the road to another, better road.
AdrienneBytheSea – You did the right thing. Six years is a long time. Too long. Let it be. You can only know you deserve better by giving yourself better.
Totally agree with you runnergirl. My long line of Mr Unavailables with the occasional AC along with various negative experiences are not the same as when my father abandoned me. They are such hugely different things but I labelled them the same. Those experiences were painful but most of the stuff wasn’t *about* me but it was about a lot of dubious choices.
The MM didn’t ‘abandon’ you – you both never in it for him to abandon you so you were really going to experience ‘abandonment abandonment’. He abandoned the dream but to be fair, you can’t hold someone accountable to pie in the sky. He lied to you because he’s The Cheater – there is no such thing as an honest cheat because if there was, he’d have gone home the first time you shagged or it was on the horizon and said “Honey, just to let you know. I’m attracted to Runnergirl and I’m thinking I want to shag her”. He had to be *caught* and I doubt he’s told her the whole truth and nothing but the truth. He lied to keep you on side but he also lied because it was his nature and also because you were receptive – lies cannot take shape or grow without someone being receptive and denying the truth once it is apparent. Did he reject you? No. He rejected being an honest man in an honest relationship and for that, he did it to *both* of you.
runnergirl
on 17/08/2011 at 3:52 pm
Thanks Natalie. I’ve struggled with the childhood abandonment/rejection stuff and this is the first time I can see a difference between the past and the present. This is also the first time I’ve been able to distinguish between them, my father, and me. It has been all tangled in my mind. We are all separate people with separate issues. I’ve been internalizing their issues and throwing myself under the same rejection bus in order to avoid rejection.
“He lied to keep you on side but he also lied because it was his nature and also because you were receptive…” This is where I’ve been stuck. The amount of deception that is part of an affair is mind numbing when reality “He rejected being an honest man in an honest relationship and for that, he did it to *both* of you.”
You made me snort my coffee, again!
Leigh
on 17/08/2011 at 8:08 pm
I needed to hear all this today because after reading this post I realised that I handed my power over to the ex MM. When we broke up (over the phone) in 2008 I said “Well I guess I have to take this rejection as a woman and get on with it.”
Nat, thanks for reminding me he rejected being an honest man in an honest relationship and he did it to both of us.
What I did was to set myself up for what I perceived as being rejected. I gave too much power to one person. It’s a good thing the power is back in-house and I’m working more and more on me.
Jennifer
on 17/08/2011 at 5:38 am
Ladies… I need help. After starting a comment thread on here a little while ago about how I was having trouble finding men who were available but not too socially off-putting, I met a man last week who seemed to be available and quite nice, and we went on two great dates. We had discussed getting together yesterday but he said he might have a big project coming in and too much work. Then I heard nothing from him for three days, then heard from him yesterday just to say he did get the project, is swamped, and asking how my weekend was. I replied within a few hours with something chatty and flirtatious because I was trying to hide the fact that I was upset at the three day gap in communication and him not suggesting a different time to get together. And that was yesterday and I have not heard a thing from him although I know he checks his messages all the time.
Is there anything I can/should do? I know everything Nat says in this post is true but I can’t help getting hung up/invested way too soon! Is this guy a douche/trying to blow me off? Help! I feel totally incapable of handling these situations. They literally throw me into a panic attack, and yes I have been through a lot of therapy.
Eve
on 17/08/2011 at 6:31 am
I don’t think you can really know if somebody is available after two dates, unless you came out and asked him if he was involved with anybody else or was casually dating.
But if you both agreed to some tentative plans and he didn’t call you until after the date of the plan, that’s bad form. In fact, I would consider it red flaggy.
You need more information though. Proceed with caution! If you get asked out by someone else or want to ask out somebody else, go for it. Don’t put all your eggs in this one.
Natasha
on 17/08/2011 at 7:07 am
Jennifer, I agree with Eve – keep your eyes and ears open on this one. Were these convos over text or on the phone? If I had a crazy big project come in, someone I’d only been out with a few times would probably be less of a prioity than the project, but personally I would call them to let them know what was happening, make sure they knew I was looking forward to getting together and give a definite timeframe when I’d be available for a date. I’d also be sure to keep in touch on the phone (minimal texting – if I like them, I want them to hear my voice and know for sure that I’m interested!). The ball is in his court, so all you have to do is see what he does, take notice of any code ambers/reds and act accordingly. Hope this helps!
Nicola
on 17/08/2011 at 7:12 am
Hi Jennifer. We talk on here about Red Flags. And in reading your post I see a whole host of them. Now dont get upset or take this the wrong way, because I say this with love. The Red Flags are coming from you. Your just not ready honey. Going into melt down about some guy not contacting you after 3 days? This is exactly what Nat talks about. We like to rant the about the AC in our lives but what we are unfortunatley unaware of is our own Tom Foolery. Self awareness comes over time and if I was feeling like this I would take that as I need to still do some work on myself. This type of response comes across as… please contact me to validate me…Any guy worth his salt will pick up on this and back away, and a guy who is AC will pick this up run with it. Now no-one on here has the physic ability to do anothers thinking. This is the problem, your wracking your brains about his thinking, trying to work out what someone elses thinking will put you on a one way train to Looneyville. This is a prime case of what alot of our problems are, if we just work out what he is thinking we can morph ourselves into what he wants, give him the right answers etc etc etc etc. The focus honey should be on your thinking, what do you think, what do you want, hell do you even really like this guy and after two dates what are your impressions. Is there anything you can do? In a word No, not about him anyway but you can do something about you. If you think he’s blowing you off, just shrug, you only met him twice. so what. He’s only one bloke and Im afraid it does’nt matter if he is blowing you off because unfortunatley not everyone is life is gonna like us, love us, fancy us, feel an obligation towards us….
If you feel totally of incapable of handling these situations, you have answered your own questions, you cant handle these situations. Your not full of your own self love, how can you date if you dont think your OK. If you think he’s full of crap and blowing you off, hes full of crap and blowing you off. Theres no right or wrong answer, its about what you feel. If it pans out he’s some Divine Entity and you blew him off so what it was’nt meant to be. xxxx
Jennifer
on 17/08/2011 at 4:27 pm
You are so right. Could someone please help me see how to love myself? Every time I think I’m making progress, and then something like this happens. I need help. Badly.
Could someone really spell it out for me? Not just “read through the site,” I need steps. Really.
Nicola
on 18/08/2011 at 3:46 pm
Yeah, I get that, I need a new Road Map this ones a bit of the beaten track….
Magnolia
on 17/08/2011 at 7:20 am
Jennifer, I’ll be interested to know how you handle your situation.
From my end it seems like a three day gap, after only two dates, is no big deal. How can anyone go from not knowing someone at all and having them in 0% of their days, to suddenly having them in 90% of their days, or even 100%? Seems like once a week or twice a week contact is a good starting pace.
That said, I recently posted about a guy who asked me out, dropped talking for weeks, asked me out again, and dropped conversation. He just asked me out for the third time, to which my roommate is like “that seems nice” even though she knows I’m beside myself trying to analyze the crap out of the situation so I can assure myself I will not be somehow duped and used.
I decided to invite a couple of friends to the same event he asked me to and said we’re going, join along if you like. He called tonight to say great! and do you want to do dinner after?
I’d said that the two weeks of no contact was a no-go for me. And here I am reconsidering.
I have been rereading Natalie’s posts on giving good men a hard time, keeping a feelings diary right from the start, and taking courage from the list of questions I will ask – mainly, do you have a girlfriend?
I wrote the post above about learning to take a risk of liking someone earlier today. I’m already looking at him and wondering if the reason I am not gaga is because he just doesn’t give me that AC thrill of fear: mind you, I can create it. I think: is it possible I could care if THIS person would eventually reject me?
Two weeks, three days … is it all subjective? All about our own personal boundary?
PJM
on 17/08/2011 at 8:57 am
Hi Jennifer –
Yes you can! You CAN help over-investing – if I can do it, anyone can. But it does take a bit of effort: you have to control your imagination, focus on other things and stop over-thinking this one. You’re just excited, that’s all, because this one hasn’t been a jerk straight away … give him time!
Alternatively, give in to the fantasies about him being The One, and then have a huge laugh at yourself afterwards. Or, try imagining that you discover he has a huge on-line porn habit, or a mystery first wife, or a thing for anonymous sex with men …
These simple tried-and-tested techniques can really keep your feet on the ground.
If he doesn’t contact you within a week, I’d give him the flick, quite frankly. No one’s THAT busy that they can’t at least email you or call you quickly.
If he doesn’t call/contact, DON’T CHASE HIM, or scold him or anything – just leave it.
Grab this opportunity with both hands, Jennifer – seize this as your big chance to get off the merry-go-round of humiliation and retreat with dignity. This in turn makes it easier to go out with the next guy, and you’ll be less nervous next time.
Jennifer, you *have* to help yourself on being invested. This is too much, too soon and alarm bells are ringing! You are Fast Forwarding. It’s been two dates. Remember when you didn’t know him a matter of weeks ago? Go about your life, do your own thing, be a personally secure person. If he calls, he calls. If he doesn’t – NEXT! Who knows if he’s a douche but it’s too soon for you to pin your whole life on him. If he is a douche, it’ll be revealed pretty quickly. Oh and you’ve been on two dates – you’re behaving like you’re in a relationship.
Jennifer
on 17/08/2011 at 5:29 pm
Nat, I know you’re right but when I start freaking out and panicking when this happens, what do I DO? I know intellectually that what you say is true, but it always seems that in the moment, nobody I trust to talk to and help me is around and nothing I tell myself helps to take the pain away.
I think this over-investing problem will prevent me from ever finding any kind of personal happiness if not addressed, but I have so much trouble fixing it. When it happens, I can’t sleep or concentrate. Can you suggest anything? As I’ve said, I’ve been to loads of therapy and it feels a little better in the moment to talk to the therapist but at the end of the day I leave and go back to feeling lonely and lousy. To be honest, I generally avoid dating relationships of any kind because I fear this happening so deeply, but this guy asked me out so I figured I should try.
Jennifer, if you’re experiencing a high level anxiety about going out on two dates and are unable to sleep and concentrate, it begs the question of why you would go out and date if you haven’t taken constructive measures to address the root cause of the anxiety? I don’t know what that is by just reading your comment but what I do know is that you’re veering between trying to run before you can walk or deciding “Shag it! I won’t walk at all.”
While there are some people who are anxious and realise that part of overcoming rejection is actually *taking* it and *dealing* with it and learning through each experience that they live to tell the tale, you’re not one of them. You’re alive, you’re kicking, no-one’s tarred and feathered you and I bet you don’t realise how great you are because you’re too busy being anxious.
The exceedingly high level of drama attached to this situation is unhealthy. It’s not because you are rejectionable why you cannot forge a relationship – it’s because with this level of anxiety after a week, it’s unsustainable whether it’s with Mr Available or Mr Unavailable.
You don’t need to avoid dating and relationships *forever* – you need to put 110% effort into finding the most appropriate support (I’m sure there are therapists that specifically deal with anxiety including cognitive behavioural therapists), taking a confidence class and learning techniques to gain some self control. No offence Jennifer, but chatting about your problems doesn’t sort them out – taking action does. It surprises me that with all of this therapy, not one person has given you constructive exercises and techniques for managing your anxiety!
What I don’t get a sense of here is self control. It’s like “Hey, there might be a fire.” Instead of thinking about what you can constructively do and how to access the reality of that fire and taking action, you do nothing and think about the possibility of there being a fire, how it will hurt, and how awful it will be and how you’re so terrible but never once think of a solution or do anything to constructively manage your anxiety.
The fact of the matter is, if there was possibility of a fire, you would use knowledge you already have to quickly think through the situation, check for smoke, heat, and even get the hell out. The fact that you have *that* much time to play with that you could lose sleep and concentration suggests that you are not responding to *real* external evidence of a ‘threat’ – you’re playing out your own internal drama.
If you don’t want to be lonely, if you don’t want to be lousy, stop being helpless and letting your mind run wild. Go to the gym and get on a treadmill when your mind goes into overdrive. Walk. Focus on doing things that need 100% attention. Make sure your day and your evening is full. Force yourself to choose something else to think about. Literally drag your thoughts from Exhibit A to whatever it is you’re supposed to be doing. Write out your thoughts to organise them. Keep a Feelings Diary. Join Meetup.com and force yourself to go to one outing a week so that you become used to meeting new people. Address your beliefs. Stop trying to take shortcuts. Start relying on YOU because just because someone isn’t around, doesn’t mean you can’t have a rational conversation with yourself.
I’m not a therapist Jennifer. I don’t ‘treat’ anything. I provide advice, commentary, tips, tools etc that can be of great benefit when you are ready to illuminate your life with answers, find solutions and take action.
In regards to what you can tell yourself. Stand in front of the mirror and say “Jennifer, it was just two fricking dates! TWO. I’ve known him a week! Whatever is or isn’t happening – I will be OK! It’s just two fricking dates. It’s just two fricking dates. It’s just two fricking dates.”
“Is it possible he’s found out ‘something’ about me? Er, how the hell could he – it’s just two fricking dates!”
“I’m scared that I’ve scared him off. Er, it’s just two fricking dates. I had a good time but jaysus, if it doesn’t progress, I’ll live. It’s just two fricking dates!”
Natasha
on 17/08/2011 at 6:23 pm
“Go to the gym and get on a treadmill when your mind goes into overdrive. Walk. Focus on doing things that need 100% attention. Make sure your day and your evening is full. Force yourself to choose something else to think about. Literally drag your thoughts from Exhibit A to whatever it is you’re supposed to be doing. ”
Nat, that is truly excellent advice. I have GAD and felt that in my case medication wasn’t the answer. What you’ve described is just about EXACTLY what I do! Jennifer, I can tell you this works 🙂
Natasha
on 17/08/2011 at 6:36 pm
Jennifer, getting a pet is also a great option if you have the time! Studies have shown that the simple act of petting a dog or cat can lower blood pressure. Pets also encourage you to get out and meet more people – dog parks are a lot of fun and filled with like-minded potential friends. A pet’s antics can also add a big dollop of good old uncomplicated fun to your life as well. I have a rescue bulldog and I can tell you that the unconditional love that pets give can be a great healer!
p.s. A lot of cute guys hang out at dog parks/will stop and pet a doggie on the street. Just sayin’ 😉
Blaise Parker
on 17/08/2011 at 7:30 pm
Jennifer,
I used to have the exact same problem. What helped me is simple:
I told the truth.
That means, I sat myself down, and I said the honest truth.
It hurt. A LOT!!!
The truth for me was, that no amount, of talking to therapists, thinking, praying, hoping, calling others about this intense anxiety issue would work, until I admitted that the anxiety was that I felt that I was not okay, that if this relationship ended (even a two-date-long “relationship”!) ended I would not be okay AT ALL. In fact, that it would be over for me, my last chance, no happiness at all. Because, I knew I was unloveable to the Nth degree and this man WAS MY LAST HOPE.
Honestly, the anxiety was so intense that I once got diarrhea, serious, intense, total body betrayal sickness – because he said he would call that evening and I had been waiting for a few hours and could not stand it. I flipped. This is with a guy who I had not even had a date with yet. (He’s not around anymore.)
So I suggest that therapists probably HAVE given you tools. You’ve just “forgotten” them. You probably HAVE read good books on the subject and gotten great advice. You will read the books and the advice, nod your head and when he does not call again you will
FLIP OUT GO NUTS HAVE AN ANXIETY MELTDOWN
because no amount of mental “talking to” you give yourself will do diddly-squat if you believe you are simple NOT OKAY without a man and THERE IS NO HOPE then you will act from that deepest belief every time.
So what I did was I played the “What if?” game. What if I ended up alone? What if I did not marry? What if I did not have children? What if he was not the one? Could I live, NOT HAVE TO BE HAPPY ABOUT IT, just live with it?
So I started imagining the very thing I feared so deeply. I just started to accept it as a possibility. NOTE: I did not have to like it, I just had to accept it as possible and start thinking of my future in terms of being alone and making the best of it.
What happened? At first, I panicked. Again. I got so ANGRY!!!!! I flipped out! And then I started to allow this new future, a little at time. I worked at this for a year or more. Instead of thinking, Oh when I met my man, I will (start saving, feel better, buy this or that, accomplish x dream)…I instead said, okay, what if I started now? Without a man?
This was not easy at first,…
Blaise Parker
on 17/08/2011 at 7:31 pm
This was not easy at first, but it got easier over time. Then, a funny thing happened. I started to feel more confident. A little at a time, because at least I was doing something proactively, even if it was just thinking about a future alone but with me at the helm, handling it as best I could.
So sometime later, without trying in the slightest, a guy walked in. I felt anxious, but when I did, I just told him. Straight out. And it soon passed. Then I started to feel in control of myself because since I had envisioned a life alone so much and worked at being okay with it, (not happy about it!) that when I thought this new guy did not treat me well, even for a little bit, I had no problem telling him he could hit the door. He developed respect for me, and I for him. Our best selves started to show up and a happy relationship developed.
So now, we are engaged, but here is the deal. If he were to seriously cross my boundaries, cheat on me, betray me, I would have no problem telling him to go, married or not. Because I know I CAN LIVE WITHOUT HIM. (Not that I’d be happy about it!)
So that makes living with him sweeter. Plus, because he knows he can’t get sloppy, lazy or screw with me, he doesn’t take that all too *human* tendency as a way out of a problem. Plus, he is a good guy, but good guys can be assholes too if they are dating a woman without boundaries. Some of his exes would attest to him not being so wonderful, I’m sure.
I hope this helps somewhat and give you a bit of hope.
I just want to clap my hands like a maniac! Thank you Blaise for sharing. You rock!
Blaise Parker
on 17/08/2011 at 8:19 pm
Natalie,
That means the world to me, thanks so much. I’ve been meaning to email you but I’ll just tell you here where everyone can see:
Without your blog, I firmly believe I would not be getting married next summer.
We will be together two years this winter and I still read every article you post and when anxiety, fear and pain tried to take over me and sabotage this relationship, I came here and I read. Over and over until the feelings passed. I cried and I read.
So to those of you who are thinking, like I did, that once you meet a man, it will all be better, think again. It does not get better because of him, it gets better because you keep facing the demons and doing your work and telling the truth.
And Natalie is the best truth-teller I know. Natalie, seriously, you got a friend in me and don’t you forget it.
When your famous, I’m gonna say, I knew her when….
*hugs!*
Magnolia
on 17/08/2011 at 9:24 pm
“So to those of you who are thinking, like I did, that once you meet a man, it will all be better, think again. It does not get better because of him, it gets better because you keep facing the demons and doing your work and telling the truth.”
Now THAT’s something to cut out and put on my mirror! Loved your story, Blaise, and thanks for laying it out step by step.
AdrienneBytheSea
on 18/08/2011 at 12:31 pm
Pretty soon there’s going to be only a tiny space left on my bathroom mirror — just enough for me to see my smile. So many wise words to copy/paste and print out in big, bold, sassy letters. 🙂
runnergirl
on 17/08/2011 at 10:06 pm
Hi Blaise, I’m clapping my hands like a maniac too. Congratulations on your upcoming marriage and congratulations for being okay even it it doesn’t happen. Thanks so much for your comment. It adds so much to Natalie’s original post and adds to my insights regarding my fear of rejection and/or abandonment.
“…if you believe you are simple NOT OKAY without a man and THERE IS NO HOPE then you will act from that deepest belief every time.” I’ve probably been operating from this belief which has kept me hanging on way, way past the shelf life of the relationship and kept me getting married and/or involved with a string of EU’s/AC’s/MM’s. Thank you for articulating it. And thank you Natalie for assisting me to getting to the point where I can hear it. I’m certain my expensive therapists said it but I may have not been ready to hear it. I’m trying to think back but I think this past 8 months is the first time since I was 14 I’ve not had some man in my life and I’m 52! None of them were keepers, as best I can remember, but I hung on as though there were no tomorrow without them. While I cried a river of tears in the first 3 months after the end of the affair with the ex MM, the last 5 months have been difficult but I have cried less than ever.
“So what I did was I played the “What if?” game. What if I ended up alone? What if I did not marry? What if I did not have children? What if he was not the one? Could I live, NOT HAVE TO BE HAPPY ABOUT IT, just live with it?” I think I may have subconsciously started playing this “What if” game in the last 5 months. You know, I think I’ll be okay. I know I’ll be a ton better than being a mistress while he waits for his 18 year old kid to grow up and then for his grandkids to grow up!
SLK
on 17/08/2011 at 11:12 pm
It is so nice to hear that others cry while reading these articles. I cry because I know it is true and I don’t want it to be. He does not care about me. No matter what he says, if he cared about me he would not do something that I very clearly told him hurts my feelings. He’s going to continue to think he’s a nice guy. He’s going to convince himself that he did nothing wrong and it was “all my fault”. And although I’m crying as I type this…that is okay. It can be all my fault. I’ll take the blame and I’ll move on knowing that he is the only one that got the short end of the stick. He lost me, and I’m awesome.
Ah Blaise. I’m so happy for you and so inspired by your determination and sense of self. I remember when you got together with him (congratulationssssssssss on getting married!) and what I really connected with you on your story, not just in your comments here, but over the time you’ve commented on BR, is that you have made a very conscious decision to quit the relationship insanity, to fight your fears and get out of an uncomfortable comfort zone. I too could easily have killed my relationship with the boyf with my own drama but I actually specifically remember sitting myself down one day and saying ENOUGH. I also made a promise and stuck to it, which really in itself taught me commitment. I’ve also admired that you’re straight shooter, no chaser – my kinda person. You comment occasionally but when you do, you deliver enormous value and perspective. And thank you for your ongoing support. (((((((hugs))))))))
Jennifer
on 17/08/2011 at 7:46 pm
All right ladies, I am starting a feelings diary right now and will join a swimming club this week. I’m a little concerned about the responsibility of a pet as it seems I can barely take care of myself, but will give it some thought.
Blaise, your words give me hope. I get a little bit of company after such a long dry spell and I just think OH GOD THIS IS MY LAST CHANCE!!!! You are so right. If anyone else has anything to share that worked for them, please do.
Jennifer
on 18/08/2011 at 5:45 am
Blaise – I am trying to do what you said, that is, envision myself alone forever, and honestly, it is super scary and awful. I mean, yes, I could earn a living, have a fulfilling career, buy a house if I wanted to, even adopt a child or something, but… no-one to love me? No-one to hold me? No-one to prioritize me above all others? If I’m honest, that doesn’t sound like much of a life. And I’m sure those of you who are in fulfilling relationships can attest to the fact that it is much better than being alone.
I’m not sure what the difference is between being able to live with it but not be happy about it and just not being able to live with it. I mean, I’m sure I could technically live as in survive, but it would be a kind of unfortunate existence. Am I wrong? What do you think?
Jennifer, I think that because you are focused on the tunnel vision of your own mindset and agenda, you’ve missed the point of what Blaise said. She looked her fear in the eye but if you’ve actually read her comment, she’s 1) learned to love herself 2) isn’t alone and 3) is in a mutual relationship. Application.
What I’m reluctant for you to do, is replicate what you say you do in therapy – pour out, feel bad, imagine the worst and do nothing – here in the comments. I’m all for introspection Jennifer but it’s time to ask yourself that if you want these things that badly, what are you going to do about it?
There’s no point trying to identify people who are ‘like’ you – every single person who engages in unavailable relationships and continues in it as a pattern has some level of anxiety issues to lesser or greater extents. It is ruminating on fears and unhealthy beliefs that creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s important also to recognise that a significant portion of people who go through this will not even call it anxiety – they will call it life, what they know, passion, excitement, whatever. Mislabeling until they listen to themselves and look at their experiences.
I had such a high level of anxiety at one point that I 1) had a panic attack that took nearly 3 weeks to recover from the after effects 2) had another panic attack where I had a headache that lasted for 4 days leaving me barely able to function and 3) I struggled with an immune system disease sarcoidosis which certainly showed physical symptoms of all of my secret stewing and hatefulness. I should be on steroids for life and barely able to walk – I’m alive and kicking and in remission for over for 5 years. I have never been to therapy although I know many people that benefit from it – I stopped pitying myself, I stopped making excuses, and I faced my fears and DID something.
You need to love you before anyone else is going to love you. How, are you going to have someone hold you when you go out of your way to derail after two dates? You don’t prioritise you above all others so why on earth would someone else?
Do you know what doesn’t sound like much of a life to me? The one you’re *living*. Now. I suggest that instead of worrying about something that hasn’t happened yet that you focus on addressing what’s happening and your pattern. What are you going to DO about YOUR life Jennifer?
grace
on 18/08/2011 at 12:25 pm
Nat
So true: “Do you know what doesn’t sound like much of a life to me? The one you’re *living*. ”
I’ve been single for about five years now (I’ve stopped counting) and am happier than I’ve ever been. Why? Cos I don’t worry about shite anymore:
Where shall I live? I bought a flat
What will I live on when I retire? I bought a flat and sorted out my pension
What does x, y, z think of me? I don’t care what people think of me anymore
Why am I always broke? I sorted out my finances and got a proper job
Why do I keep getting depression and anxiety? I saw a counsellor, read this blog, exercise and eat properly.
What if I’m alone forever? I take care of my friendships and family. I’m not alone, I just don’t have a boyfriend/husband.
It’s a combination of doing what’s in my control and letting the rest go or trusting that it will come to me in good time.
Jennifer, you can be single and happy. In fact, you have to be before you can meet someone decent. Otherwise, you try to make every man you meet into The One, whilst getting stressed and nervous about it, thereby putting him off and putting yourself off too. No decent man wants to be a woman’s guarantee against loneliness, he wants to be liked him on his own merits. You have to bring more to a relationship than fear and need. I’m sure you DO have a lot to offer but you have to know what it is and believe in it.
You’re putting the cart before the horse. I’ll repeat what’s been said. You don’t find a good relationship and then become happy. You become happy and THEN find a good relationship. Or maybe you won’t but at least it’s better than living a half-life of anxiety.
CC
on 18/08/2011 at 9:49 pm
Amen Grace! I’ve been single for 7 yrs… wow I haven’t counted that out in a while and it seems verrrrrrrry long?! I spent 6 of them trying to get a few different guys to love and commit to me. The last one I’ve spent happier than I’ve ever been… and single. Once I kicked my EUM habit and got some self esteem (the master key to all this) it didn’t take long for me to realize that I actually have an AMAZING life. And being single can be great fun when you realize that you are a great person and that in reality you don’t need a guy to complete you… I’ve got my shit together. If anyone is going to get a relationship from me you better be damn well worth it cuz otherwise, life is good just the way it is!
Nat – great new pic. And when I read the word “rejection” on this post I just knew it would speak to me. I took EVERY single EUM as a HUGE rejection of me as a woman. I wasn’t pretty enough, I wasn’t tall enough, they want someone more passive, more girly, bigger boobs… I mean you name it, I thought those were the reasons. And I would beat myself to death over how my friends were all getting so lucky and finding husbands… and really no one ever fell in love with me. And that old saying “I knew I was going to marry him/her the minute I met them; I just knew”… yeah, that doesn’t help either. Seems like any old EUM could “just know” and turn into the prince right? Wrong. It was me. I didn’t like myself. I had negative beliefs that spiraled worse and worse after every EUM. Eventually I just plain thought I wasn’t good enough. Man, what a joke. In reality I was too good for any of those time wasters and the important thing is that I see it and feel it NOW. Life will forever be great as far as I’m concerned… be it single, married, divorced. It all comes down to how you feel about yourself and what you do to take control of your life and make it a happy one.
runnergirl
on 19/08/2011 at 12:51 am
Carrie, Grace, CC, and Blaise,
That’s why I love this blog, Natalie’s post are brilliant and provide the best therapy I’ve ever had. Then, there are the wonderful comments which provide more brilliant insights. CC, I took every AC, EUM, and MM’s unavailabilty as a rejection of me as a woman. I wasn’t blah, blah, blah enough. Like you, I’m starting to realize they weren’t anywhere near what I thought I wanted, not that I really know yet. Wahoo for you Carrie. You comments nailed me. I’ve been unavailable my whole life and pursued EU’s like they held the brass ring to my happiness. Grace, I’ve been thinking about your comment all day: “You don’t find a good relationship and then become happy. You become happy and THEN find a good relationship.” Thank you. The brass ring to my happiness lies with me, NOT a “HIM”.
Thank you all for your uplifting and truly thought provoking comments. It is freaking amazing to hear about how happy, self-assured, self-loving folks with self-esteem think and act. You are all such an inspiration. Jennifer, I hope you are doing okay.
Natalie, your pic radiates love, respect, and happiness. Simply gorgeous from the inside.
anoosh
on 19/08/2011 at 4:31 am
very powerful words here. I can definitely confirm that you don’t hear this kind of stuff in many types of therapy. it’s also very encouraging to read about people who have overcome issues with anxiety (esp around relationships), who found the inner strength and resolve to stick with a plan of *action*. I’ve bookmarked many posts on BR, the last few + their comments have really struck a big nerve, along with re-reading the books. from my understanding, a big part of successful psychological treatment of anxiety/OCD/phobia is behavior modification, desensitization, cognitive therapy — and includes all kinds of relaxation & self-care exercises. I think that’s what I’ve basically giving myself by reading Baggage Reclaim for the past 4 months. BR is sort of “CBT” for EU 🙂 — changing negative thinking and distorted thoughts by objectively examining facts, which then changes emotions positively. it takes time to change the pathways in the brain, but it does work! I feel more hopeful now about overcoming my ‘rejection sensitivity’, dating anxiety, special EUM/AC magnet super-powers, etc than I have in 10-15 years. it’s so fantastic to have a forum to examine these issues which focuses on the BR principles.
last time I took an extended break (5 years) from dating, I thought I had it all figured it out. I didn’t even come close! Life had more lessons for me, apparently, to get me to my *higher ground*. great new portrait, btw!
Jennifer
on 19/08/2011 at 5:46 pm
I have thought over what everyone has said and have realized that whether or not someone is a jerk/right for me will not necessarily show itself right away, and that it’s always necessary to give the dating experience some time to play out. No reason to get all upset right at the beginning. Some people are great at the beginning and then show their true colours, and some people take a little time to warm up to and then they’re great. No reason to get all bent out of shape about it; just when someone shows their true colours, react appropriately and don’t get so upset. If someone I go out with a bunch of times ends up being a jerk or unavailable or whatever, so be it. It doesn’t mean I was taken advantage of, because I didn’t end up in a long drawn-out situation with him, thank goodness! I would just have stuck around long enough to do my research and then get out of there once I knew what I had to know.
As Blaise said, it was hard when she first thought about being alone, and that is the reaction I had as well – that my mindset would have to completely change. Now that I have thought a little more about it, I realize that there are guys who will be right for me in the long run, as long as I learn to manage my anxiety and be at ease with who I am. I am generally actually fine after a few days, which I guess means NML’s anxiety was probably quite a lot worse than mine is. I basically just need to work on the initial gut reaction I have to dates that may/may not have gone badly, which is always very negative. I am working on it by keeping a feelings diary and giving myself pep talks when I get freaked out over the idea of being alone. Hopefully that is a start at least.
I have also been thinking today that the best way to think about relationships with men is the same way I think about relationships with women. Some women are really nice and friendly for a while but turn out to be unavailable as friends (i.e., they’re never free to meet up, never return calls, maybe only talk about themselves and never listen, etc.). Then I sometimes hear from them when it suits them, and I usually don’t go out of my way to make time for them. This is all fine, and I don’t tend to get upset about it.
On the other hand, some women who I meet turn out to be very available, and we form intimate friendships in which we each know the other person is there for us…
Jennifer
on 19/08/2011 at 6:06 pm
… and that is fine too! But it is not possible to know upon the first meeting, or the second, third, or fourth! It’s something that comes out with time and has to play out. No need to pursue a friendship for months if it isn’t working, but give it a chance to reveal whether it is genuine. There is no rush when someone is new in your life. And just as there will always be available friends, there will always be available men. It just takes some patience to find out who they are.
I see a lot of comments on here that don’t get responded to at length, I suppose because they aren’t as nuts or whiny as mine, but that reflect a lot of sadness and despair. I wanted to suggest this way of thinking (in terms of platonic friendship) because it has helped me a lot in the past few days. There are many people on here who overcame anxiety and other issues a relatively long time ago, including NML and Blaise, and they have great insight, but I find it can be useful to hear from someone who figured out something that helped get them through the immediate moment, because that is the first step. Though I am fortunate never to have suffered from a serious illness, there was a time in my life when I lost someone close to me, and though I remember that I was sad, at this later date the climactic moment of pain and desperation is hard to recall in its live form and I might tell someone who was feeling it to do something that may not have been possible in that particular moment. I suspect that anxiety, once overcome, can be similar. There is no need to be hard on yourself if you stress out over the dating process, just realize that relationships take time to reveal what they are and there is no rush.
Sorry for the long post – now that I had done some constructive thinking, I hoped to say something constructive.
Fearless
on 19/08/2011 at 11:24 pm
Hi everyone,
great post Natalie – and great new pic. You look fab! It’s hard I think not to feel rejected when someone (or something) you care about turns you down. I have found it hard in the entrenched ex EUM relationship not to internalise what was effectively years and years of repeated ‘rejection’. The more rejection I suffered the less I expected to get from the relationship and more and more every crumb from him was like a feast in the desert for me (to quote Nat’s expression). I am convinced now that the key is to have strong self esteem and the ability to validate yourself. When I got that I pretty much had what I needed to solve my problem. I have more self confidence now than I’ve had for years – partly cos it’s no longer being relentlessly depleted and chipped away at!
I agree with Grace and CC and would say to Jennifer that a single woman is not half a person! And to see yourself as half a person, or a fraction of a person, waiting to be made into a whole one by a man is the crux of your problem I think, Jennifer – apart from anything else that kind of neediness is not attractive – and it’s not healthy; it’s like waiting for an opportunity to live your live vicariously through someone else – a man. Also, as Grace said, we need to bring something more to the table than an anxiety riddled desperation to bag a man so that our life can start. I also agree in that a man wants a woman who is already happy and fulfilled and confident, not one who is waiting for him to make her happy and fulfilled – that’s just giving him a big job to do and dumping a huge responsibility on to him. We are each of us a whole person in our own right and should not put ourselves and our lives on hold anxiously waiting for another human being to come along and make our life happen. It takes courage to take charge of your own life but it’s essential to get that courage or we run the risk of ending up in a codependent dysfunctional and even abusive situation with a man whom you are unable to leave because you can’t do your own life on your own. My mother always tells us, her children, that we are not responsible for anyone else’s happiness; a person’s happiness must come from within themselves and that we should never look to another person to *make* us happy.
Nicola
on 19/08/2011 at 11:32 pm
@ Jennifer. Your not whiny or nuts at all. xx I know exactly what you mean, there are times when I need help. It confuses me when I read stuff that says, for example…unhealthy behaviours…then goes on without explaining what unhealthy behaviors are. The thing is I don’t know what unhealthy behaviors are because they are normal to me. Its hard to figure summit out when you don’t have a clue what your trying to figure out. If what you’re doing is normal to you…IE playing hard to get because from the get go that’s what Ive been told and shown what to do, then they get bored, then you go after them, and then it all starts again. how the hell do I know this is wrong. Its OK telling me its wrong, but not giving me any clear idea on how to change it. Learning to love myself is new. Ive only ever loved myself to look good for some one else. On my own, for myself I can barely get in the shower wash then dry my hair, let alone put make Its hard to know where to start. This stuff frys my brain at times to. I read your posts and I can absolutely understand the desperation. Please someone tell me what I’m doing that’s so bad. Ive been working and reading loads on Co-dependency blah blah and all NML stuff but it fries my mind. I booked into a see a Relate counsellor this week. I told her all about my work she nodded and said this OK, you need a new Road Map. You have all this stuff but now you need help putting all together. THANK GOD. Help is now here.
Nicola, I’m ‘bemused’ by the tone and content of your comment. Who has said what to you and where did you read this stuff? Are you referring to this site, commenters on this blog, a different site, people in the real world? Please clarify.
anoosh
on 20/08/2011 at 1:50 am
hey Jennifer. I think I understand where you’re coming from. I’ve never worked harder than last 12+ months to resolve relationship issues. I haven’t put myself “out there” again. reading your posts actually got me thinking about what it would be like. seeing things now w/much more clarity, would I be able to try dating w/o having that anxiety reaction? I honestly don’t know. when will I be so strong in self-esteem, -love, etc., and so free of my *Baggage* that I no longer need worry about anxiety if a guy doesn’t call? it took a lifetime to get here, not sure how pliable my brain is, despite 100% commitment now to changing the way it works. I guess I won’t know until the opportunity arises. I haven’t met or clicked w/age-appropriate men in the course of daily life for years, tried online dating, was never crazy about it. this last EUM was an old friend from college, 20+ yrs ago. we started truly as friends on facebook. one thing led to another, it was a big pursuit, for almost a year he was a total Prince. I actually was open w/him about anxiety issue, he always tried to help me feel OK. he won my trust. then overnight, he bailed and turned into a major Frog. which didn’t do great things for my already fragile heart.
I commend you for trying, being honest, and reaching out. I’m thinking just the act of consistently reading BR, the books, the NC emails, etc, is one of the best things to overcome the problem. I kept many journals/blogs/video-diary over the past year, b/c I was determined to get to the bottom of it this time. 6 months ago at the beginning of NC, there were many difficult times. at the worst moments, I came here to read, and usually within 15-20 minutes I’d feel way better.
without question, there are those who do need more aggressive help to get to a level where they can get the full benefit of everything here. I guess it’s important for each person to figure out what they need to get them to the healthiest possible place.
Natasha
on 18/08/2011 at 5:03 pm
Blaise, that was truly awesome 🙂 Congratulations on your upcoming wedding and I wish you many happy and beautiful years together!!
anoosh
on 17/08/2011 at 5:27 pm
I know that level of anxiety and panic, even from just a few dates. I started noticing it in early 30’s, after several painful heartbreaks in 20’s. I named it “PTBD”, post-traumatic-breakup-disorder. I too have tried to address it in therapy for many years, without success. it’s the reason I pretty much stopped dating at 40, I just could not handle putting myself out there. and… here I am at 46, that special someone did not come along. one of the hardest parts of it, is (for me) totally knowing on a rational level that it makes absolutely no sense to react that way, but not being able to control the anxiety. I really do feel that reading BR and NML’s books have made a huge difference in starting to change the underlying beliefs, more than anything else I’ve come across. I can’t imagine going on a date with someone right now. hopefully that will change, sooner rather than later.
Jennifer
on 17/08/2011 at 5:42 pm
Anoosh, thank you for helping me see that I am not alone. Has anyone else been through this, and has anything helped?
PJM
on 18/08/2011 at 2:19 am
Jennifer, I have, which is why I said what I said.
I have had huge probs with anxiety; I probably always will have a degree of it. And of course it can all come down to where you are in your menstrual cycle as well, and also if you are getting older and feeling that clock ticking. It ain’t just in your head, girl.
The things that help me are:
1) TIME – the simple passage of time that you can’t fast-forward, and this is the hardest one to accept, so I’ve put it first on the list!
2) BE KIND TO YOURSELF. You are putting too much pressure on yourself and it’s taking the joy out of things. Nat is completely right; there are root causes here, possibly outside your relationships zone. Find them and start dealing with them, but in a kind way. Give yourself the kind of mothering perhaps you never had as a child. Be the kind of best friend you have always wanted.
The other things that help are the stuff you’ve planned already:
1) join a swimming club: fantastic idea. Get those endorphins going and start feeling good for a change!
2) volunteer for something. Anything. I find this really gets me out of my own head and my own problems, and I can think about other people.
3) Forget all about blokes for a few minutes – and when you’ve cleared your head, make a bucket list: all the stuff you’ve ever wanted to do, and haven’t yet done. [Hint: don’t put ‘get married’ on this list – very counter-productive]. This is just for you – not the things people have told you that you should do; the things that YOU genuinely want to do.
I did this recently, and I went and learned how to load and shoot a handgun. I overcame my fears, had a blazing good time, ended up burning through 100 rounds of live ammo, and flirted with the insanely chatty middle-aged chap who worked there.
Now when I get miserable, I go back to that moment, and in fact I find myself looking forward to my next session, when I’ll have a go at using a rifle …
Next, I am going to ask for a 30 minute flight in a Tiger Moth biplane for my 42nd birthday. It costs around $250 but I know enough people to get them all to chip in.
Chocks away! Don’t let your fears stop you from having a good time. A happy Jennifer is a sexy and attractive and confident Jennifer, so get happy first and then see what happens.
Mika
on 18/08/2011 at 10:34 pm
“I’m not sure what the difference is between being able to live with it but not be happy about it and just not being able to live with it. I mean, I’m sure I could technically live as in survive, but it would be a kind of unfortunate existence. ”
I think that most woman crave for love…but there is a difference between needing love in your life and wanting love. When you need someone, you depend on them to help you feel fulfilled. In other words, you are solely relying on them for you to be happy. And this will not attract the kind of love you want.
However, when you WANT love, you would like it in your life, but you wouldn’t solely depend on love to complete you. I think it’s a matter of your perspective in life. I also think you have a much better shot of ATTRACTING love when you’re in this mindset. Also, the past and future are just illusions. Focus on right now and because all you DO have is … right now:)
Sarah T
on 17/08/2011 at 6:53 am
Nicola, you sound awesome and I hope you see that in yourself!
I guess with me, the thought of my ex being a tosser made me feel worse for spending so long with him. Our meeting showed me he’s not a tosser really, he just hasn’t got anything to offer of any real substance (no pun intended!). I’m certainly not going to feel bad for not choosing to live a half life and wondering what I could be missing out on.
Flip-flops? Really?! The words ‘nail’ and ‘coffin’ spring to mind! Live your life girl! Don’t be defined by a chemically enhanced, flip-flop wearing half-man.
And HURRAH for your achievements. Xx
Nicola
on 17/08/2011 at 7:32 am
Thanks Sarah,
It comes to a point that you have to start laughing at your own exploits. When I read my journal, honestly I go into hysterics…because its like…SAY WHAT? Christ alive did I really put up with that? Its great to be back to who I am, a place where I can totally LOL at this AC. Ive been living a half life for over 4 years. I love this site, I know I should’nt lol but sometimes when I read the exploits of some of these blokes we tend to get involved with it does make me lol. I promise anyone out there you will get through this and see the funny side at some point. Sending you all love because believe me the Sun does begin to shine at some point. xxxxx
Lia
on 17/08/2011 at 6:56 am
“The two easiest ways to avoid rejection in relationships – don’t have any relationships or get involved with someone who offers the least likely prospect of commitment or a relationship – it’s ‘safe rejection’ but both still wind up being self-rejection.”
So so true. I’ve spent a lot of my dating life avoiding serious relationships, afraid of jumping into relationships with quality men out of a fear of getting hurt or humiliated. In a strange way, I always felt safer with less than trustworthy men because at least I knew what to expect from them. Even though it hurts when one of them disappointed me, if I’m being honest with myself, I could say that most of the time I could see it coming. But it would have hurt me far more if I actually trusted them and got hurt. In the end it all hurts, but it’s better the devil you know I guess…
But even when I had a good man on my hands, I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop, always waiting for their “true” colors to finally show. Eventually I would realize that the bad side I had been waiting for did not exist, but by then I had alienated them so badly that they then felt rejected by me. Realizing how horrible I was being to the good ones, I was caught between not wanting to deal with the losers and wanting to be with the good ones, but not feeling as though I deserved them. So instead of being hurt or hurting others, I just preferred to be alone as I thought that would forever be my fate. As sad as it is to say, subconsciously I don’t think I believed that men were trustworthy. 25 years of negative thoughts were in serious need of reprogramming. Having an inconsistent mostly absentee, deadbeat father taught me that men were not trustworthy, and the ones that were I didn’t feel like I deserved, so that’s the way I viewed men and my relation to them.
An experience with one man in particular finally gave me the epiphany that I needed. I let him jerk me around for a few years, excusing his poor behavior. But one day he crossed the line and no matter how hard I tried, I could not find any excuse in my brain that would justify how he treated me and I just snapped on him. But if I was being honest, he was always that person. He was never going to be able to have the relationship that I wanted. It was then that I realized this: I deserved more than I was allowing myself to have, I had to do better by myself to appreciate myself so I would be capable of appreciating the good things when they do come my way. I think once we realize that we deserve more and that we get to determine the reach of our own happiness, we figure out that relationships with incapable people are really just a waste of our time.
Nicola
on 17/08/2011 at 8:44 am
@ Jennifer…again.
I forgot to mention that, Ive seen alot of Assclownery behaviour in my time and been complicit in it. But thinking about Date Man further….saying he has stuff on etc, is a prime example of a guy setting the Status Quo. Now you have choices here Jennifer A) accept that he has lot on etc see it for what it is Setting the Status Quo. B)hear that he has alot on, not compute it, think awww the poor souls got alot on he just needs my understanding, maybe I should sit here wringing my hands hoping Im worth it, if we I hook up maybe that will help etc etc…and here we go around the merry go round. There will possibly be always something on! Make a choice, hopefully the right choice babe, your questioning your gut. But make sure the your one doing the rejecting. Your thoughts ladies.
Jennifer
on 19/08/2011 at 7:43 pm
Thanks Nicola, I really think you are quite right. And I really hope you are rid of drug addict loser man once and for all. 🙂
grace
on 17/08/2011 at 10:25 am
Lia
Actually, being hurt by a trustworthy person hurts less. They don’t jerk you around, they don’t blow hot and cold, they don’t lie to you, they don’t insult you, hit you, cheat on you etc. They will tell you no in a fairly straightforward manner then leave you alone. It hurts a bit (maybe a few days/weeks/possibly a few months). With some of my breakups, I only cried for about a week. It’s nothing like the ding-a-ling, jerking around, now he’s here now he’s gone, booty call downgrade for months/years of a man who doesn’t know his behind from his elbow.
That’s my experience anway
lilylee
on 17/08/2011 at 8:23 pm
Booty call downgrade…that’s classic
Lia
on 18/08/2011 at 12:58 am
You’re right, when I’ve been “hurt” by a trustworthy person, it doesn’t really feel all that painful. But I always feared that it would be more painful, it took me actually engaging in relationships with them for me to figure that out. It feels great when you’re dealing with someone who actually holds their self accountable and actually cares about your feelings.
Lia, what you’ve described is a classic example of unavailable relationships, the beliefs, and the self-fulfilling prophecy. By losing the limited beliefs which have you having limited relationships with limited men so that you can limit the vulnerability, you open up a whole new world.
j d
on 17/08/2011 at 6:12 pm
Lia,
Your comment really struck a chord. My EUW told me about all the bad guys she dated (the guy that held held her down when he was angry, the cokehead who tried to get her to use drugs, the cheating bad boy). Because of those experiences I thought she would value me. Wrong! I wasn’t the first nice guy she confused and alienated, and I won’t be the last. It is up to the EU to break the cycle or not; there is nothing I can do about it.
Lia
on 18/08/2011 at 1:12 am
My heart hurt a little when I read your comment, as I know that I’ve left a good number of men in my past confused and/or frustrated, and hurt. I’ve run into a few of them afterwards, and I can tell you that I felt extremely embarrassed by the way that I had treated them and it was hard to face them, but I also operate with a conscience. If this woman that you speak of does too, or ever gains one, she’ll realize what she did to you too. But no, there is nothing that you could have done to change what happened, she was not in a position to where she could value anything you had to offer. She more than likely didn’t value herself enough to realize that she deserved any of it. So glad you moved on…
oriana
on 17/08/2011 at 9:05 pm
Lia, you have described me to a T!. I’ve known this on a rational level for years but feeling worthy is a major struggle – since I was tortured by a psychopathic mother and not protected by my father for my entire childhood, I don’t have much hope of ever gaining the self-love I need. (I appreciate all the fantastic advice that people/therapists/etc. have to give, but with Complex PTSD it mostly useless). I have just stopped dating the less-thens, that’s all I can do for now. Thanks for sharing with so much honesty and succinctly describing the low self-esteem dating game we both play :).
Lia
on 18/08/2011 at 1:53 am
You know, one of my favorite movies, even as an adult, is Disney’s The Lion King. And my favorite part is actually this scene in which Mufasa manifests from the clouds and talks to Simba. Mufasa tells Simba: “You are more than what you have become… Remember who you are”. Leave it to me to learn a life lesson from a Disney movie LOL, but one day I was watching it, and those words literally sent chills through my body, it was like they were meant for me. I feel like a lot of my dating life was spent settling for less, just barely getting by. It didn’t matter how many people told me before, I had to learn the lesson on my own to figure out that I owed myself more than what I was allowing myself to have. And not unlike the lion young in the movie, I realized that I had been in fear of facing myself and my past, but inadvertently I was holding myself in it. I needed to deal with the hurt and pain from the past in order to get out of life what I truly wanted. No matter how I lived my life, I could never run away from that little voice in the back of my head that kept telling me that. The difference between now and then is that I hear it loud and clear. I’ve never been very good at lying to myself, I can’t run away from who I am, and I know that I am a person who wants and deserves to be loved. It just took a little while for me to realize that…It is my hope that you’ll continue to seek out self love as well, every day is a work in progress, don’t forget that. And don’t give up, I have hope for you.
Christina
on 17/08/2011 at 7:11 am
Very insightful post! (as usual) Especially the part about how rejection and abandonment are so often confused, and not everything is about us. I learned this lesson hard and early, and as awful as it was at the time, I’m glad I did. As a teenager I didn’t feel very attractive, but I soon realized that some guys did like my unconventional look and personality. So at some point I decided that it’s okay if not everyone likes me, because I know that some do. And I don’t need every guy- I just need one!
“As a teenager I didn’t feel very attractive, but I soon realized that some guys did like my unconventional look and personality. So at some point I decided that it’s okay if not everyone likes me, because I know that some do. And I don’t need every guy- I just need one!” very well said!
Magnolia
on 17/08/2011 at 7:32 am
Also realized today I feel rejected pretty damn easily. I had a sort-of interview with someone today who likes me so much she basically just brought me in to tell me how much she’d pay me to do some work for her; I didn’t have to show her a CV or portfolio or anything. I said a couple of things that I felt embarrassed myself and so I STILL left that meeting feeling like a stupid dufus.
I also recently was called at home and handed the biggest review of my career: new book of a world famous guy. I lasted about four hours before I was like: is he giving it to me because I cost less than big name reviewers??
And to make it a nice set of three: I’m being considered for a job at a small local university. I busted my ass for the interview. Now that they want me, I’m all like: man, aren’t I better than a small university?
Reject myself much? Argh!!! Talk about tying my own sense of valuation/rejection of myself to other people’s valuation of me. Maybe I’m an N.
Mainly of course I am happy about these developments and attribute them to the assertiveness I’m developing along with self-esteem.
Nonetheless, this week’s mantra has been: just because they aren’t rejecting me, and in fact are welcoming my advances, does not mean they are stupid / small potatoes / slumming.
grace
on 17/08/2011 at 10:28 am
Mag, Mag, Mag, I’m shaking my head here. You’ve achieved so much, don’t doubt it! It’s so true – never mind the men making us feel bad, we do it to ourselves.
Magnolia
on 17/08/2011 at 10:09 pm
Hi there grace, Natalie and all:
This has been a great post for helping me notice self-sabotaging habits. As I wrote the story about the childhood experiences, I could feel the story itself “getting tired.” Something about telling it to justify my anxiety isn’t working anymore. My history of having to overcome their old messages is true, but – it’s very strange – as I begin to genuinely overcome them, the story of their hold on me stops being ‘true.’ I can’t blame current events on that old hurdle. Now it’s a habit to overcome. I appreciate Natalie framing it in terms of my identity. It’s quite disorienting, but exciting, to be breaking out of the very stories that have been my identity.
Same with the self-deprecating stuff around my achievements. Again, writing them out here – for what? – fishing for support? I did have those thoughts that cut into my moment, but … it also felt like it wasn’t working; and I felt manipulative, almost, reading Grace’s response (thank you, Grace). When my advisor responded lukewarmly to my news of the review, both myself and my friend remarked on the inappropriateness.
I thought, huh, THAT is what I have been doing to myself all my life: being all *meh, whatever* about the good parts of me and others’ votes of confidence.
Self-indifference can be a sneaky form of self-rejection.
I have put myself down to try to control people’s perceived hostility, secretly feeling superior and deserving of praise. Lately I feel freer to achieve “in front of people”. Freer to care about my goals, to totally eff up in front of people, and to let go of soliciting support and attention through poses of victimhood.
It feels like I risk a lot of hate, jealousy and resentment coming my way if I start to identify with success. It’s the classic move of the woman who calls herself stupid before anyone else does. But – as this post reminds – I can’t keep rejecting myself just to avoid others’ rejection. If I do, I’m still getting rejected.
Onward!!
Nicola
on 19/08/2011 at 11:17 pm
I like that “…I cant keep rejecting myself to avoid others rejection. If I do, Im still being rejected..” that really struck a nerve. I do this all the time, hence why Im on lock down for a year to work out some MY AC behaviour. I feel like a toddler learning how to live from scratch.
katherine
on 17/08/2011 at 7:36 am
A-mazing. You are just amazing. It’s like you know me and this could not have come at a more perfect time… There was I, wallowing in my own self pity because I felt I wasn’t good enough, even after 4 months broken up, and when I know he’s already dating someone else ‘cooler, fitter and who’s more into sports’.
Thank you for the wake up call. It’s time to splash water on my face, to get a grip and to start looking out for number one.
“Thank you for the wake up call. It’s time to splash water on my face, to get a grip and to start looking out for number one. ” Yay Katherine! Good for you!
fitnessfreak
on 17/08/2011 at 9:13 am
@ Jennifer
How do you suss a guy is available after 2 dates ??
Way too invested !!!
Too busy / swamped at work ….no one is ” too busy ” to make room in their lives for things or people that are important.
It sounds like a brush off ….but don’t sweat the small stuff ….it was 2 dates !
Take care.
I think the key here is though that it’s not about being ‘important’ – they’ve just met. I’ll put it this way – Jennifer, you’ll know if it’s a brush off if he doesn’t follow up with making a date in the next few days up to a week after the last date. Don’t sit around waiting for the call and get on with your life!
Minky
on 17/08/2011 at 9:18 am
Brilliant! I think this post, along with the ones about self esteem and jedi mind tricks, have had a huge effect on me.
Being told no is a part of life and not a rejection. People not doing what you want is just them doing their own thing. The control freak in me really needs to hear this!
Also, i think my main fear in my current relationship is of rejection. There is absolutely no evidence of this and things are great with the boyfriend, it’s just my own imagination running riot. Articles like this show me that i need to chill out and stop trying to make people think and do as i want them to. I would hate it if someone constantly berated me for doing my own thing.
Minky, fear means it’s not happening. If it was, you’d be doing something about it. Exhale and enjoy your relationship. PS You are on my very long list of mails. I will try to do it before I head off next week!
Elle
on 17/08/2011 at 3:43 pm
Minks, I am with you. But also remember that you’ve dealt with rejection before, and from a trickster, no less, and you got through. If new guy rejected you or decided for whatever reason to end things – very unlikely and essentially not worth thinking about – then it wouldn’t be a pull-the-rug thing. In any case, this guy sounds solid – so enjoy the relationship, and give him the right to do his thing (including ending it), just as you have the same rights. (I am saying this to me too!)
Minky
on 19/08/2011 at 10:31 am
Too true Elle. My bloke is the guy who (years ago) ended a mutally agreed casual-fling because he realised the girl felt more strongly than he did. No flip-flapping, no yoyo-ing – a clean break. And I am the woman who has survived a control freak AC and a using twat of an EUM – and i absolutely loved being single. I think things will be fine :).
It has been a couple of days since i read this article and i can honestly say the internal change has been miraculous. I am so much better at defining ‘doing own thing’ behaviour with ‘being inconsiderate’, not just with my boyfriend but with friends, and partners of friends, alike. I just advised a good friend whose bloke has been playing a new computer game for a couple of days (men!), while being in touch and still arranging to meet up, that she should chill out and not perceive it as a rejection. Me! Telling people to chill out! Me! Who would have though!? 🙂
elsiewondercat
on 17/08/2011 at 11:53 am
This is just what i needed to read Natalie, having in the same week had a new guy go quiet on me after two really good dates, and had my ex boyfriend (‘love of my life?) contact me for some help with his teenage daughter, only for the contact to turn into a discussion about ‘us’ (i still had unanswered questions over a year later) and for him to confirm that he had loved me but ‘not enough’ and didn’t want the ‘family life’ with me! Well I was feeling very very rejected and sorry for myself! I look at both these guys with fresh eyes today, and see similar traits of ‘Mr. unavailable’…thanks for the words of wisdom as always and dragging me back into the real world xx
elsiewondercat (love the name) – Don’t take any more of his calls. You’re not his armchair psychologist or his girlfriend. Piss taker!
nk
on 17/08/2011 at 1:19 pm
My recent ex was unavailable. The way he acted wouldn’t sit well with any available women. I broke it off with him. What anoys me about it was that he speed things up in the beginning when I was taking it slow. It felt a little uncomfortable but I went along to see before breaking it off. I know I d the right thing. Our closure conversation consisted of him admitting his behavior displayed his unavailability but yet he still liked me and was serious. I said to him that he wasn’t because of his actions. And I asked him to admit he wasn’t feeling me In the same way. Now when I asked that I totally would of accepted him saying he wasn’t available for the type of commitment I wanted and be done he said nothing. this really Bugs me and I’ve stepped up mountains in terms of dealing with negative stiff since but every now an then that nagging thought says why couldn’t he just admit it? Even my ex eum can. My conclusion is that he
Can’t be honest with him self he ain’t going to be honest with Me.
NK, let me give you a piece of advice that will hopefully spare you many more man hours – You see how many people go before the courts each and every day around the world, accused of stuff that are found guilty and yet they never actually out and out say the words and admit what they’ve done? Have you watched Judge Judy recently?
Stop trying to force him to say what he doesn’t want to say. You’re a grown woman that can figure it out for yourself – you already have. You don’t need him to validate the fact that he’s unavailable. It’s like going to a man that beats you and saying ‘Admit that you’re an abusive asshole’. He-llo! You already know he’s unavailable, the decision is already made. If he wants to live in LaLa Land telling himself whatever he wants to, that’s his prerogative. You’re not the boss of him. You can’t open up his brain and remove any association with you or force in a program that says “Greetings commander! Must go to NK right now and tell her that I’m unavailable”. Let it go!
PJM
on 18/08/2011 at 2:24 am
I LOVE ‘Judge Judy’; it’s so therapeutic. Anyone who thinks a relationship will solve all their problems should watch that show and see just how many women have gotten themselves screwed over by shitheels.
My other favourite program is ‘Four Weddings’, which we have in Australia – don’t know if you have a UK or US equivalent? Four couples (translation – four insanely competitive Bridezillas) compete to see who can have the ‘best’ wedding. It’s hysterically trashy, and it really helps to cure my wedding/marriage blues.
Tina
on 17/08/2011 at 1:45 pm
What a brilliant article.
I recently ended a relationship that was just absolutely bonkers … rejection is what kept me in it lot longer than I should have. I viewed his regular rejections of me as a challenge almost …. he once viewed me as interesting, desirable, compelling and would contact me frequently by any means possible when we weren’t together (at the beginning) … then he changed … he seemed miserable in my presence, avoidant, overly critical of my every move and would reject my affections frequently (sometimes even during!!! :O). I stayed in the relationship because I wanted the ‘old’ him back. I was convinced that somehow I was doing something wrong to cause the change and he convinced me I was doing something wrong (I suffer from clinical depression, he told me it was bringing him down and told me his behavior change was because of this, called things like a freak or psycho). It eroded my confidence and made me feel ashamed of my illness. It was holding me back from recovery.
Eventually I just realized that by allowing him to treat me like that and to allow his frequent rejections of me I was rejecting myself … I just was trying to avoid the inevitable.
I also realize now that there’s nothing I can do to make someone change their personality and the way they relate to people.
You can’t make someone into an AC or EUM.
407
on 17/08/2011 at 11:46 pm
Extracting onself against one’s own feelings is extremely difficult. I think they call this ‘being clingy’ in dating parlance…
AngelFace
on 17/08/2011 at 2:57 pm
I’m going on a 1st date tonight with a man I’ve been communicating with from a dating website. We have emailed, and have had a few telephone conversations – of which, I HAVE NOTED A COUPLE Defensive/Odd remarks from him. We are taking separate cars and going to a restaurant -all very safe., and I am actually looking forward to this date.
I will pay attention while on this date, and not be fooled by his accomplishments – he is an author and published several books, he is a Ph.D., has travelled, etc. I will remember that I am a very good and successful woman, and will not have to ‘settle for’ or ‘fix up’ any new person that I allow into my life. AND that communication is important to me and I wont waste time with an under-par communicator!…. which is probably at least CODE AMBER for other things lurking.
I will be ready to Reject Him… politely and quickly, and might know after this very first date whether I will proceed! Thanks Natalie!
PJM
on 18/08/2011 at 2:25 am
BRILLIANT, AngelFace – atta girl!
jennynic
on 17/08/2011 at 5:29 pm
When someone likes me or sees potential in me, I feel like I am on thin ice. Yet one someone sees me as flawed I am super, super affected and internalize it. I am easily derailed. I guess at the core is my own belief I am flawed. I was humiliated as a child too, and although I know it was a childhood experience, I still revert to the child being humiliated when I feel rejected as an adult. I can’t believe people might see something else in me, something good. When I get complimented, I always tsk tsk it and put myself down, or down play it as a response because I am uncomfortable, instead of just smiling and saying thank you. I feel rejected very easily, I think because I expect it on some level. Ironically, I am accomplished in my life, feel capable, and have achieved things in my life that people call very admirable. I still seek approval and crump when I don’t get it. The approval I do get, I question.
Rejection is painful and trying to be ahead of it all the time by being unavailable, hooking up with unavailables, or by downplaying the interest of a potentially available doesn’t avoid it. You guarantee it. My last guy (if honest, many of my ex’s) told me I was not very expressive and didn’t make him feel like I wanted him around. I keep my feelings on a leash until I feel rejected, then the emotion pours out of my like hot lava. I am not good at showing someone I care about them (risking rejection?) but am good at telling them how they disappointed me (rejecting them). The last guy was no prince, but I am able to look at my own behavior pattern of self protection and how being so guarded doesn’t prevent rejection and in some cases causes it. People give up you if they have to prove themselves over and over again because you don’t believe that they can care about you. Shady people continue to disappoint you and it becomes unhealthy validation when they don’t give up on you, but they don’t actually step up to the plate either. Not expecting respect or love when you approach situations and relationships is expecting rejection. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy and rejecting your own value in life. I do this, in almost every relationship.
Lia
on 17/08/2011 at 11:23 pm
Preach! LOL, but seriously these thoughts are so familiar it’s almost scary! Gotten a lot better at it, but I’ve always had a hard time accepting compliments and have a tendency to strive towards perfection in order to avoid criticism…thought I was just keeping myself humble but what I was really doing was underestimating myself and holding myself to unrealistic expectations at the same time…but the flip side to that is that I used to seldom give out compliments but I wouldn’t criticize others unless I absolutely had to, and even then I would mince words…
I have had conversations with exes that told me that they felt as though I was indifferent to them when in actuality I was quite fond of them. But I never expressed myself to them, not positively at least. At the time I didn’t realize it, but these people honestly never knew that I genuinely cared for them, I might not have been in love with them, but they definitely had pieces of my heart…I was overprotective of my heart with people who I should have trusted it with. And those who I couldn’t trust I kept around because they fulfilled beliefs that I held about myself…
“The last guy was no prince, but I am able to look at my own behavior pattern of self protection and how being so guarded doesn’t prevent rejection and in some cases causes it. People give up you if they have to prove themselves over and over again because you don’t believe that they can care about you.” That is so true, eventually it becomes a drain, especially if you know that you or that person has the actions to go with the words…the last EUM has yet, to this day, to truly express himself to me. His words very rarely matched his actions for whatever reason, but I’m not waiting for him anymore. It’s like you said, eventually a person gets tired of trying to prove themselves to someone. And I know that outside of signing it in blood, there was absolutely nothing else I could have done to “prove” my love for him. Oddly enough, he told me that he always thought that I deserved better than him and that he was waiting for the day that I would see it. And the women before me were not good to him at all, so perhaps it was his self fulfilling prophecy coming to pass by keeping me at a distance… I’m never gonna know whether or not that’s actually true, but you are indeed correct. When you put in an order…
j d
on 19/08/2011 at 6:18 pm
Thanks for your posts Lia. As a self-aware EUW you really help me understand the thoughts of my ex.
Oriana
on 17/08/2011 at 11:48 pm
This is now the second bang on description of me in the comments. Exactly! You’re not alone – not much of a consolation I know, but thanks so much for sharing.
Sally
on 17/08/2011 at 5:46 pm
The lesson I learned after my ex-AC break-up and the rejection dance that ensued was that in reality – it’s not about YOU. Once I could separate myself from his actions, it made it not personal. It took a while and a lot of work, but thank God I’m here. I can now suck it and see on FBook and the only internal response I get from his photo is, this person is a stranger to me. Rejection truly is God’s protection.
I have a couple of friends going through it right now, and while I can empathize with their pain, I truly think it’s something we have to go through in order to come out the other side with a healthier perspective on ourselves and relationships. I believe that challenges like these make us stronger and are necessary for our growth. I read somewhere that “Ego enemies are friends of our true self”, and I really believe that going through what I went through, meaning the complete dismantling of my ego, has helped me get closer to my true self. It doesn’t happen over night, and I have slip-ups now and then, but time, no-contact, therapy, and this website have all helped me get to the other side. Best of luck to everyone “going through it”. You can do it!
SLK
on 17/08/2011 at 10:59 pm
I’ve been visiting the site often and this was a good post for me today. I definitely struggle with rejection and my first (yes, I made it to 36) experience with an EUM has me in a tailspin. I recognized it pretty early and being me confronted it. I told him that I couldn’t be angry at him for not feeling the way I wanted him to feel but I could/would be very angry and upset if he treated me poorly. This was after being blown off a few times. Silly me believed him when he assured me he wasn’t trying to blow me off. Turns out he was “talking out of his bum”. Although he promised me he would be upfront with me when he wanted out, we went from having a great date to him not acknowledging my existence (we work together) overnight. I have spent too much time wondering why he didn’t just tell me it wasn’t working for him and I’ve realized that of course it is working for him. I stroke his ego and give him company and pretty much accept not getting anything in return.
So, this is it. Though I’m tempted to call him and ask him why he started acting like a FNAH (my friend’s name for him. FNutAHole, I’m sure you can fill in the rest), I realize it is pointless because he’ll just tell me what he thinks I want to hear so he can gone on feeling like he’s been open and honest with me, blah blah blah.
Now I just have to stick to my guns. Easier said than done.
Cinderella
on 18/08/2011 at 1:39 am
Exactly!
Once I stopped rejecting myself, accepting it was easier to let go of.
Not everything works, as you said, and I KNEW I didn’t want someone who wasn’t there for me the way I wanted to be there for him.
As compared to hoping he’d want me the way I wanted him and hanging on to that fantasy.
I like myself more.
By not rejecting myself and by valuing myself, rejection from someone else is not as overwhelming.
Trinity
on 18/08/2011 at 3:39 am
This is something I have struggled with all my life; I take it all very, very hard. It causes me an extreme amount of pain.
My last relationship was one of the ones that caused me the most awful feelings of rejection but somehow on this occasion I found my own way and learnt the lessons I needed to.
I dealt with abandonment issues and learnt so many things about myself. Why should I allow others to define me? I know who I am. And why should I especially allow men and friends who behave badly to define me?
They just were not that special to begin with and what I didn’t realise was I was still dealing with painful childhood abandonment issues which caused me to pick people who would do the same.
If I look back at my relationships and each one came back, begging…. I can honestly say I would not take on the offer, in fact I couldn’t really even be their friends.
They all came into my life to teach me something about myself, that’s it. Each day is a learning experience for me because I’m choosing to live my life differently, it can be hard but its worth it.
Fedup
on 18/08/2011 at 6:47 am
ICanDoBetter- You just described my family aswell, I’m not kidding. If I call them out on it, my mum makes me apologize. They think that you have to be married just to leave home. It’s like are we living in 2011 or 1950? I don’t want to be 30 and still living at home, just coz ” you have to be married to do anything”. Who wants to marry an adult who still lives at home?
Fedup
on 18/08/2011 at 6:50 am
ICanDoBetter- You just described my family aswell, I’m not kidding. If I call them out on it, my mum makes me apologize. They think that you have to be married just to leave home. It’s like are we living in 2011 or 1950? I don’t want to be 30 and still living at home, just coz ” you have to be married to do anything”. Who wants to marry an adult who still lives at home? And they wonder why I want to rebel.
I love it! This makes so much sense to me. I’ve always been a, ‘oh, it just didn’t work out’ kinda person, but this really makes me understand my friends who always feel the rejection so keenly much more. I’m going to start explaining it in these terms to them, so if we can’t convert a few more people to your own brand of sanity!
Roxanne
on 18/08/2011 at 9:34 am
I’ve subscribed to your blog, and the NC newsletter, and have been reading you for about two months now. So much of what you say hits home hard with me. But this blog is EXACTLY what I needed to hear. I don’t know why it takes so many different ways of saying the same things. But tonight you rang true, and got through like never before. I will read these words over and over again until I let go.
“Instead of feeling crap about everything you didn’t get that you think you were entitled to – remember who they were and why it’s over. If there’s some good in there, great, but if what you’re mourning is the loss of what didn’t happen, don’t ‘waste’ your life by devoting it to taking up pain and rejection solitude as a vocation.”
This has been me, in a nutshell. And I’m so tired of it. Thank you for your words! You’ve helped me through (yet another) difficult time. But this time, there may truly be a light at the end.
Daisy
on 18/08/2011 at 10:01 am
This comes at exactly the right time–recently on holiday I met someone great and had a by-the-book holiday romance, complete with romantic moments and lots of sweet things said. While I was there I went off him and felt uncomfortable so I pushed him off me and pushed him away from me. It’s only when getting back home I realised how stupid I was in doing so. I’m still young and I’ve had my share of ACs and EUMs, while so far away this guy was much much better. He hasn’t replied to me for 2 weeks and I think it’s time to stop waiting but I regret my past actions and not seriously talking to him about relationships/treated him well. 🙁 He was surprised that I apologised for my behaviour then but was distant, no doubt because of us being on other sides of the world again! I’ve been stupidly rehashing everything and feeling very rejected, which is silly. I guess I’ll be using BR more and more.
grace
on 18/08/2011 at 12:04 pm
Daisy
This was never going anywhere, it was just a holiday fling.
No wonder he was suprised you apologised.
I wouldn’t waste any more time thinking about this.
Allison
on 18/08/2011 at 3:52 pm
Daisy,
I agree! He lives on the other side of the world. It would never work!
Natasha
on 18/08/2011 at 5:36 pm
Daisy, don’t feel rejected! This reminds me of this terrible reality show that MTV had a few years ago (terrible = I never missed an episode) about a group of 20-somethings that worked at a resort in Hawaii. The guys on it made a system out of bedding girls that were staying at this resort and yapped on and on about how it was fantastic because they’d never see them again. Those girls weren’t getting rejected – it just was what it was. It’s easy to be super-romantic and sweet when you know that the person is leaving and you won’t have to actually live up to any of that romance in the real world. Hope this helps!
pam
on 18/08/2011 at 2:28 pm
I think it’s hugely important how the ending of a relationship is conveyed , it can make a world of difference. I recently experienced finding out from an EUM passive agressive AC ( Yes I won the trifecta in him) who has stuffed me around for years,with his off and on again routine , well he realised ( yeah right ) he “shouldn’t be in a relationship yet again.I wasn’t overly surprised by him doing this again. What I found really painful , was that he sent me this via an email.Had he have had the respect to phone or express it face to face, it would have been disappointing for sure , but no where near as hurtful as what I found it to be, receiving exactly the same words via an email. The shallow creep did do me an unintended favor though , as it made me finally realise he just ” aint that good ” no way worthy of me , my time, my effort, my affection and energy.
Audrey
on 18/08/2011 at 5:16 pm
Absolutely, Nat, competing for a man’s attention is a sure fire way to set a woman up for major stress and inner turmoil. And peace of mind is impossible. And who wants to be second best and play second fiddle to another woman? And with kids involved, the other woman is far down in the pecking order.
Magnolia
on 18/08/2011 at 7:53 pm
Hey Nat – Nice new pic and layout!
Carrie
on 18/08/2011 at 10:13 pm
Woohoo – epiphany! I just realized that I’ve been the Emotionally Unavailable one my entire life in terms of guys I’ve thought I wanted. I’m the one who has always wanted guys (or boys) who were obviously not right for me and yet I’d still go after it.. because I didn’t think I deserved any better. And when they weren’t who I wanted them to be, I would just chase harder because the drama (in most cases) allowed the focus to be on them so I couldn’t look too hard at myself. I’ve fallen for guys way too young for me, a married guy, a couple guys who lived halfway across the country, oh yah and the oh-so-EU narcissist and though I’ve only had 2 serious relationships, all those “crushes” were SO wrong for me in so many ways. Even my ex-husband who loved me so much more than I ever loved him, I martyred myself by staying with him way past our expiration date. I thought it was to spare his feelings, but really it was to keep from pushing myself to do what was best for me. I didn’t know what was best for me, but I certainly wasn’t in any rush to find out and his or other guys’ issues kept me from dealing with my own. I certainly didn’t feel I deserved a good healthy relationship, I didn’t love myself enough to even know to want it. It’s amazing how much I’ve started learning about myself.. just freakin amazing.
Allison
on 19/08/2011 at 11:36 pm
Carrie,
I can totally relate.
I wish I could send your thoughts to a friend but, she is not ready for BR. I’ve tried.
All the best!
Carrie
on 20/08/2011 at 5:27 pm
Thanks Allison 🙂 I’m a total codependent so I definitely know the feeling of “knowing what’s best” for someone and wanting sooo bad to show them! But as we’ve read so many times on here, you can’t tell anyone anything, it’s up to them to know already or seek out the truth themselves and that goes for friends as well. All you can do is offer advice ONLY if they ask for it and even if they’re venting like mad, if they don’t ask all you can do is be a listening ear. Your friend will have to find her own way just as we all have.
Bri
on 18/08/2011 at 10:59 pm
Hey guys, I really need some support right now. It’s been one week since the MM ended our relationship and miserable doesn’t even begin to describe how I feel. I went NC for 5 days until we had an all-day meeting together at work and he approached me in the parking lot. Throughout the day he’d been giving me sad looks and I had to take bathroom breaks so I didn’t cry in front of my boss, but the end of the day did me in.
He asked me how I was doing (awful) and told me how sorry he was, how he’s not happy at all. He said his feelings for me will never change and no matter what decision he made, he wouldn’t be happy: if he chose me, he’d be “abandoning his children when they needed him most”, but he also hates living without “us”. Like a fool I told him that I hoped, if he ever changed his mind, he’d come back to me and he said that no matter where I was, he would…but right now, he’s still at home with his family and I’m sobbing on the couch writing this.
I’ve been crying uncontrollably for a week…I can’t eat, I can’t see my friends, I even work in a conference room alone so I can cry without anyone seeing. Despite how much of this blog I’ve read and what my therapist tells me, I want him back and can’t shake this pain – in fact, it seems to get worse every day.
I know everyone says I’ll get through this with time but it doesn’t feel that way. I feel crushed and I feel like I lost the love of my life. Seeing him at work is killing me, not talking to him is killing me, and talking to him is killing me. I feel like I can hardly function. How do I know I’m going to get over him? How do I know I won’t feel this pain forever?
I could understand if you said all this and a year or two had passed, but it’s been a week, you work with him AND you’ve already engage with him. What did you expect? You’ve just spent six years in a faux relationship with a married man with three kids, two of whom are disabled, who talked out of his arse, pontificated about what he’d like to do, slagged off his wife, and essentially future faked and delivered nothing.
You have spent ONE week in ‘suffering’ and are saying you can’t take it and are asking if it will last forever. Why, were you never asking this question during your SIX years?
The feeling doesn’t last forever or even for months and years on end – you’ll discover that if you stop being a one week thinker. It’s supposed to hurt – that’s why it’s called a breakup.
Correction two years. I was mixing you up with Adrienne. Two years vs a week anyway.
grace
on 19/08/2011 at 8:54 am
Nat
Your mix up says something – Bri, I know this situation feels very special and unique to you – but it’s really not. There’ve been so MANY women here who’ve heard exactly the same words from MMs as you and have felt the same as you, me included. Yep, we all thought we wouldn’t get over it either. So sometimes we get the details confused.
YOU are special and unique. Your affair isn’t. Don’t get it mixed up. You don’t need this affair to “work out” to be a special person, you already are.
And even if you were an everyday, ordinary kinda girl (nothing wrong with that) you’d still deserve an everyday, ordinary kinda guy just for you. Not someone who creeps around in parking lots to stick it to you after work.
Magnolia
on 19/08/2011 at 8:31 am
Hi Bri,
The pain won’t last forever. You seem young: I hope you won’t be like I was in my early twenties. When I dealt with my first shock from a lying guy, I obsessed for *more than a year* over why he wasn’t interested in me. My main focus was on how close he’d gotten to me (as in, he saw the “real” me!) and how could he leave me after that kind of closeness?
I thought you’d said it was two years and I hope to heck that’s right but even two days is two, too, too, long with a MM. Nat’s point is the same: you’ve invested a significant portion of your life in something that was never going to pay off for you the way you wanted. It’s going to hurt. If he wants to pull sad faces at you, whatever: he’s left with a family, and people around him every day, and a home life. You’re the one left with squat. He may feel bad about it but he’s not getting shafted the way you have been, and have positioned yourself to be, shafted.
Look at it as though you’ve been eviscerated. In Jane Eyre she described being in love (not that I’d call your affair love) as a connection between people’s guts: it’s a good image. You connected your guts to him; now all of those intestinal connections, which took time to form, like a tangle of nerves and blood vessels, have been ripped out.
It frickin hurts! It’s fricking bleeding and tearing up and snotting and diarrheaing all over the place! Yes, as it should. But it doesn’t mean you should surgically reattach yourself to the guy.
Take a brief leave if you have to, so at least for a few days you don’t see him.
You got wounded. You played in traffic, you got hit by the mack truck. Now go home and take care of yourself. Don’t go looking for the mack truck to be sorry he hit you. Give your own self a shake for getting intertwined with someone already intertwined with other people. Give yourself a shake for playing in traffic and getting smacked full of internal injuries. Yes, it hurts.
You will heal. Stay NC.
Nicola
on 19/08/2011 at 10:50 am
Hi Magnolia,
I really liked what you wrote:…”My main focus was on how close he’d gotten to me (as in, he saw the “real” me!) and how could he leave me after that kind of closeness?…” This got me thinking about the Flip Flop Wearing AC that I’d been with. This bloke loved the dating…ie not the real stuff…ie the real me. He liked the women who he could take out and feed! (read recent post on my feeder penchant) he liked me all dressed up, He liked my Job…dunno why it caused me nothing but stress and basically gave me something to hand wring about. He liked me going to his and snuggling up lol but he didnt like the real me…ie that stuff that we all have going on like periods, housework, chores friends, liking a glass of wine, getting upset, asking for something real, question his Rinky Dinky behaviour, a 18 year old son (who he was obsessed with, ie I was’nt pulling him to line, whatever that means, not controlling his drinking, not doing enough round the house) my son is a great young man and he is OK!!!! having a cat laughing at my type of comedy you know the real stuff that we all have going on. For years I was on a perpetual date with a guy who rides a bike wears Flip Flops and has nothing to talk about other than how he’s done his washing…Yeah I get that, cheers…how he had a punture on the way to work…great..children dying in the Sudan but yeah a punctures out there…what new aftershave he bought…get the picture I used to have life…I love london, theatres, doing like stuff…well I used to, The last time I went was to a dreary Coda meeting in a basement in a church there…just to prove I was working my programme. To be honest I dont know what I was doing. Worrying about this boring man rejecting me…to much of the Relationship Crack…I should have gone to a NA meeting instead. For most of us its so hard to look at the reality because we rush in idetifying with a few hurts and superficial values etc try to merge as one and take each other hostage and then wonder why the hell it didnt work out. Being emotionally unavailable for me was about ignoring the signs, not recognising the signs, one because it was to painful to look at because OH GOD he really is not that into me, not again, Im a really unlovable person and two not knowing what good relationship behaviour was or is, and not recognising the fact that…
AdrienneBytheSea
on 19/08/2011 at 12:12 pm
Bri, please hang in there and take NML’s and Magnolia’s words to heart. Don’t go down the road and end up six years down the line like me. I remember the pain you’re in — that level of non stop crying and hurt and body shaking happened to me the first couple times my ex MM and I broke up. If you go back, do you want to go through that pain again a few months or a year down the line when he realizes again that he can’t/won’t leave his kids, his life, etc. for you? Lather, rinse, repeat. You’ll go through that pain AGAIN and want him back to feel better and he’ll come back with apologies and how you have a “connection” and blah blah and you’ll want to just feel better and so…back to that again…and then the pain when he realizes, etc. I did that for six years. Please do not make the mistake I did. Stay strong. Take care of YOU. Hugs.
anoosh
on 20/08/2011 at 2:53 am
today is my parents’ 50th Anniversary, doing some reflecting on that. if I got married tomorrow, I’d have to be 96 for that day! they’re having a quiet dinner at home, just the 2 of them. they grew out of parties and big social events years ago, along with overt sentimentality about their marriage. hopefully they’ll enjoy themselves, and leave out the bickering, they’ve both become rather cranky and impatient! maybe I will too.
reading this thread has me thinking back to 1st serious heartbreaks in my 20’s. I was certain the pain would last forever then, was totally unprepared. thinking bout those guys, I haven’t been able to access intense feelings of any kind for them, or the extreme acuteness of the pain for what seems a million years. and I had a few rounds of VERY extreme heartbreak, which triggered terrible depression, and once even decided to take a year off of college b/c I knew I couldn’t focus. instead I worked & saved up to live in Paris w/girlfriends for the Spring, travelled around, met up w/friends in London. unfortunately, my rebound relationship then backfired, which prolonged the pain. in any case, it was all so long ago, and I was madly in love each time, it’s where all this oversensitivity to rejection first became apparent. but I did get over them, while swearing I never would. they’re just memories now. in my 30’s, I had relationships with 2 men who ended up dying far too young — one at 29 of pancreatic cancer, and one at 38 of an enlarged heart he was unaware of. I loved them too, and yes, had to mourn the losses. there was tremendous pain and grief. but I did move past that.
there have been many days over the past year, that inner negative voice has once again been telling me I’ll never get over this, I’ll never find anyone to love ever again, that those other heartbreaks were different. one cannot compare apples & oranges, but I know my losses are nothing like what my parents will experience when the time comes.
sometimes, I think the best cure is to zone out & laugh until you can’t breathe. just recently I found “Peep Show” from UK, on Hulu in the U.S., watched all 7 seasons in a marathon. never laughed so hard in my life. that’s a healthy way to distract from pain, imho!
grace
on 19/08/2011 at 8:43 am
Bri
A few practical suggestions:
1. Can you take holiday for a couple of weeks? Or even a week.
2. Stop describing it as a a “relationship”, call it an “affair”.
3. If he approaches you again in parking lots (pathetic), tell him you will only speak to him, in the office, on work-related matters
4. You’ve got another week of crying on the couch. Week three, limit your crying time to an hour a day.
5. Seriously, if it gets that bad, find a new job!
Oldenoughtoknowbetter
on 19/08/2011 at 5:59 pm
Hi Bri, I just want to give you some encouragement. Hang in there and give yourself some time. Time really does heal all wounds. I speak from experience. My 4 year old daughter died of cancer and at the time, I thought I would never enjoy life again, ever. I honestly did not believe I would even ever laugh again. It did take well over a year to even feel somewhat normal, and 5 years to realize I did enjoy life again and happiness did return to my heart and I did laugh again, a lot! The loss of my child was the deepest loss I could ever imagine, and while I don’t want to minimize your saddness (and I experienced a pretty good run of depression over my stupid MM situation) there is one thing I know. As humans, we can eventually move on past ANYTHING (not get over, just live with it), and so can you. Just keep your eyes in front of you, put one foot in front of the other, and remember when you feel the lowest, you will survive this. Time will march on, and one day you will think of him and not feel like someone kicked you in the stomach. Then another day you will think of him and realize it has been 2 days since you last thought of him. And finally, one day you will only think of him when you want to, or something reminds you of him. Your pain is not forever. It is impossible for us to hold it that long, we are not made that way. Use this time to grow. People lose people they love every day, through divorce, death, or break ups and they do go on to live happy, fulfilled lives. You will too, but please be a bit more patient with yourself. If you haven’t, watch 500 Days of Summer…what a great loved and lost movie!
Thank you for sharing and I’m sorry for your loss. As a mother, I know that just the thought of losing your child is painful and to experience it as you and several friends can attest to is something that changes a person. It is however recognising that people who lose loved ones through death do gradually recover. My grandma passed 3 years next week – my grandad after more than 50 years of being together lived to smile and enjoy life again. He’s not the ‘same’, how could he be, but after believing he’d never survive, he has.
runnergirl
on 19/08/2011 at 8:55 pm
Oldenough and Bri,
I too am very sorry for the loss of your 4 year old daughter Oldenough. I’m glad that you can laugh again, a lot. The exMM lost a child (same age as my daughter) and the grief was tremendous. I still have nightmares and call my daughter at all times of the day and night to make sure she is ok.
Bri as I mentioned to you, I experienced the rinse, lather, repeat syndrome when the ex MM would turn up at work, sad, looking like shit, wearing my favorite shirt, saying that he can’t live without me. The fact I now realize is, he made the choice to live without me, despite his words. Your ex MM has made the same choice, too live without you. Thus, he apparently can.
I couldn’t write much in the beginning, I thought, because I was too busy crying. When you can, download Natalie’s guidelines for the Unsent Letter. I’ve had therapists talk about Unsent Letters but never understood how to write one, what the significance was or how to start until I read Natalie’s guidelines. I started and stopped and started and stopped. Mostly, I feared the pain of unloading the baggage because it hurt too much. What I see now is how amazingly spot on I was when I started. Even though I didn’t think I was writing much, I was. Last night, I sat down to continue the Unsent Letter to the MM and I was shocked. Nothing came up. I may be simply done. I’d highly recommend getting started even while you are crying. That’s the best time. I’m going to do some more later this afternoon and see what comes up.
My thoughts are with you. Grace’s recommendation regarding next week and the week after are great! Get writing.
Fearless
on 20/08/2011 at 12:26 am
Can I also say to oldenough’, I am so, so sorry for your terrible loss and so impressed by your courage.
To Bri: you don’t get it yet, but keep reading Nat! And listen to amazing Grace – she talks a heap of sense borne out of hard won wisdom via personal experience – all hard truths, but truths! One suggestion from me: go back in the archives here and read about boundaries; you are in this situation partly,perhaps mainly, because you don’t kow what your boundaries are. If you have no boundaries – no non-negotiables – you have nothing to protect you from the hurt that you are now feeling – you cannot dodge the bullets and even when you free yourself from this MM you will remain vulnerable to repeat the same mistakes (and Bri, yes, this affair is a mistake! A very big mistake and you are now reaping what you have sown for yourself). Boundary number one for all of us: “I do not date men who are already attached” (married, girlfriend, partner etc.). Don’t date or engage in flirtations with them and you won’t be in this position. And that includes this MM you are stuck on now. Him too, he is NOT an exception. He is the rule. He has to go. For your own sake and health and happiness and well-being, he has to go. So, set that boundary now. No married men. None. He is bad news; all he has for you is more of the same. You are not that desperate and he is not that special (he is married = NOT available = don’t engage with him and if you do expect to do a shed load of crying on the couch and everywhere else for a very long time). Also, if he cared about you – or had a healthy respect for your welfare – he would not be bleating away about how hard it all is for him – in a parking lot. He’d know he was bad news for you and leave you well alone. Good luck.
Carrie
on 20/08/2011 at 5:31 pm
Oldenough – Just wanted to give you a big ol’ {{HUG}}. You are an inspiration!
Jennifer
on 19/08/2011 at 6:53 pm
Bri – you will move past this. Not that I’m an expert on anything, but if I were in your position I would look for a new job, pronto! I think you may even realize at this early stage that the work situation is going to cause you extended pain when it is not necessary.
Lila
on 19/08/2011 at 12:16 am
I’ve been reading BR for a few months, and in that time I have so benefitted from you, Natalie, and also all the fabulous insightful comments. The last two years I have been in so much pain with my divorce from a passive agressive AC/EUM with whom I share 3 children. Facing the knowledge of my own choices in this disaster have been particularly painful, since reading BR and thinking hard about my trend in choosing men–starting in middle school (ha so boys I guess).
I’ve screened plenty of unsuitable men in these past 2 years, and I finally fell (hard) for a younger man who while kind and sweet superficially, did in fact admit he could not give me what I thought I wanted (a committed relationship). Well, faced with this reality of our divergent paths, I was disappointed, but I foolishly resolved that “sure we can be friends, call me when things calm down in the next couple weeks.” Umm, yeah that was stupid. I knew it, and after reading this blog and seeing, thinking so much, I knew he would call, push the “reset” button in around ten days, and here I was giving him permission! Sure enough, he called on Sunday and asked if he could come over and just “lay in my bed with me.” Seriously! I said yes, and then in this little numb bubble of mine, proceeded to completely violate myself by having sex, thinking “well I know I’m gonna regret this, so I better do it twice.” Who does that!?! I was offended when I got an obligatory “nice” text the next day–“I had fun yesterday!” But that’s what I made it. It wasn’t meaningful, loving, affectionate, and he didn’t stay the night, because the pretense of maybe there’s a relationship, maybe there’s not was completely gone. And I handed to him on a silver platter. WTF.
“well I know I’m gonna regret this, so I better do it twice.” I actually couldn’t help but laugh and I suggest it’s what you do Lila and then never allow him to do it again. You’ve sucked, you’ve seen, you know it’s not good for you and ultimately that’s all that counts. Push your flush handle and start looking forward.
Fearless
on 20/08/2011 at 12:36 am
Lila, I laughed out loud at the ‘better do it twice”!! I can relate to that so much! I had same idea when I’d go against my better judgement and see the ex-EUM again after promising myself I wouldn’t when he did his ‘gone cold’ on me routine. I would know the on/off pattern would repeat itself and would figure, well, if I’m daft enough to be here with him – again! – I may as well make the most of it! Glad I have now got my head out of my arse!
Lila
on 21/08/2011 at 1:20 am
I am still really struggling with the reality of who he is. There are some really sweet things about him, almost like he’s straying into/experimenting with EU behavior but is not completely “gone” as it were. There I go, wanting to be Flo. Ugh. He is a musician, hanging with musicians. I have to remind myself that your company unavoidably affects your character…
Mango
on 19/08/2011 at 4:05 am
I still struggle with feelings of rejection. If we tried, and didn’t work, that’s one thing. But to build me up, then not even give it a whirl, and turn to someone you just met instead? Hurtful.
I feel like Sally in ‘When Harry Met Sally’, when she found out Joe, her ex was getting married. Harry came over, and said, “I thought you didn’t want him?” Sally says, “I didn’t. BUT HE DIDN’T WANT ME!”
He loves me, but isn’t in love with me. Can’t imagine me not in his life. Whatever.
Bah.
Mango
on 19/08/2011 at 4:42 am
Ah, I just read your highlighted post, after my most recent comment, and this jumped out at me:
“………it’s time to ask yourself that if you want these things that badly, what are you going to do about it?”
“I stopped pitying myself, I stopped making excuses, and I faced my fears and DID something. ”
What am I going to do about it, indeed! Time to get my head out of my butt. Seriously.
Thank you, Nat! And thank you Blaise, Grace, and CC, and others for sharing your stories!
Lila
on 19/08/2011 at 1:19 pm
Yes Nat, it is what I do. And I entered into this “autopilot” mode for the time we were together, so I was blindsided with the hurt that followed. Even though he positioned himself for my lapse in judgement, I was the one who made the decision to go through with it. I should also note that this was our first time being intimate. I am trying to learn to be more intentional with the men I choose. It’s exhausting sometimes. I’m taking some time for me for a while.
colororange
on 19/08/2011 at 9:59 pm
Over a week ago, there was a planned get together with some people on meetup.com. I backed out. I wondered if this was a red flag on my part, if it was me afraid of rejection or my paranoia. The coordinator has me as a friend (though we have not met) on FB and made a comment about someone who visited her house recently. It hit me as she is talking about someone she just met and is announcing it on this public website. That made me feel weird because my mind went to if she posts about people on this website, then this is the type of person she is and I am not comfortable with someone that could possibly post about me. Maybe I used that as an excuse not to go but it bothers me when people do stuff like that. So I immediately did not trust her.
Plus I was too anxious to go to her house, having never met her or the other people that were going. I was scared of what they would think of me…..and heck…..post about it on FB.
runnergirl
on 20/08/2011 at 12:42 am
Hey there colororange,
What you have described sounds a bit weird to me. I’m no expert though. I’ve only been to three meetup events but they have been in public places and not at somebody’s house. I don’t think I’d feel comfortable going to a stranger’s house to meet other folks I did not know. What they would think of me or post on FB seems irrelevant. That being said, the FB element just adds another dimension of weirdness. I think you probably did the right thing in trusting your instinct. Going to a stranger’s house to meet strangers doesn’t sound like fun to me either. The only reason I went to the three meet up events was because there was music I wanted to hear and I know I have to get out of my rut. I met a nut case but nut cases are everywhere, including my place of work. Now I think I know how to go in the opposite direction when the nuts drop on my doorstep whether they are my colleagues and/or jokeamoes who want to get laid. I’m thinking you did the right thing and thank you for sharing. It’s tough to know when you are behaving in the present based on the past and when to trust new found awareness. I wouldn’t go to a stranger’s house…red flag.
Fearless
on 20/08/2011 at 10:56 am
I am totally with runner on this colourorange – good decision!
Colororange, the red flag isn’t backing out (as Grace, Fearless have said it was a good decision) – the red flag is that when you have the opportunity to try something new and engage with new people, you choose a shady opportunity which then gives you the legitimate opportunity to back out. That is sabotage, self-fulfilling prophecy, laziness, you name it. You then get to tell yourself that new meetings are risky and avoid getting out of your comfort zone. I put it this way – if you were planning to meet people who never use a social network, you’re narrowing that pool dramatically.
1) Stop adding strangers on Facebook if you’re that concerned about privacy. Or get off Facebook.
2) Take the suggestions that Runner has made re meeting up – just like you wouldn’t go on a first date to someone’s house or meet in a dark alleyway, as a lone woman you wouldn’t just arrange to meet up with some randoms at a house.
3) Stop trying to control the uncontrollable – people talking about what they did, even when it’s ridiculously mundane is the bread and butter of social networks. If you’re going to judge people, do it for something proper.
4) Distrusting someone because they posted on Facebook is exceedingly disproportionate. Distrusting someone that posts inappropriate or even offensive material on Facebook is another matter of course.
What you did is like going on a dating site and agreeing to meet some random guy at his house and then changing your mind. Actually even worse, it would be like agreeing to meet several random guys at a house. What’s the issue? The fact that they might do something or the fact that you would agree to meet several random guys at the house? One is something that hasn’t happened yet but could and the other is something 100% under your control and has already happened.
colororange
on 20/08/2011 at 1:56 pm
When I saw that she was hosting the meetup at her house, I considered telling her I was not comfortable with that because I did not know her or anyone else that would be showing up. Plus, I did not have a suggestion as to where we could meet instead since it was a potluck. I can be a risk taker on some things but my days of doing stupid stuff like throwing myself headlong into things that could be dangerous are quickly ending. Then when I saw her making fun of someone else on FB it sort of solidified me not going. I know it sounds bad and I am not happy that I have this shady side to me, but it seems I am spending most my time managing anxiety over people. So would it have been rude or a good idea for me to just tell her I was not comfortable with the meetup situation or not say anything at all? I have many questions on general people skills on what to say and not to say. It’s like there are so many rules. I wish there was a class I could go to where I live that would help me out in this area. Being it is a small city where there is not much of that going on, I feel like I am floundering alone.
grace
on 20/08/2011 at 2:27 pm
colorange
you don’t have a shady side (well, no more than anyone else here). you’re not confident of your beliefs, you don’t trust your instincts, and you’re not very streetwise. I’m sure that how’s a lot of women end up in shady situations, not necessarily because they themselves are shady.
It’s fine to say “thanks for inviting me but i can’t make it. hope you’re evening goes well” You don’t have to give a long explanation.
Can you possibly extend the relationships you already have – say colleagues, family, friends, church, reading group at the library, evening classes, dance classes? The internet is a bit of a minefield.
Fearless
on 20/08/2011 at 2:56 pm
Colour, I agree totally with Nat. Your first mis-judgement was to arrange to meet a bunch of strangers in a house and not in an appropriate public place – God knows what they might have had in mind. That could have been potentially dangerous. That was the red flag. You missed it. I do however, agree that the woman who runs these “meets” should not be mocking her “guests” on f/bk or publicly – anywhere. That’s bad form and a red flag – but it was the second one and nothing campared to the first that you ignored. So you were right to back out. But you should never have opted in. Don’t add stangers as friends on f/bk. Meet them first before you decide to be friends! Focus on this: meet new people and have fun – but do it with your safety and well-being as your first and greatest priority.
I have a feeling you’d be better getting involved in an official, genuine and properly run local club or group that involves people who want to learn or engage in a common interest, sport or hobby. Consider that as a better and safer bet.
Peacefrog
on 20/08/2011 at 11:11 pm
I reckon a bigger red flag than Colororange’s doubts is the fact that anyone would consider hosting a Meetup in their own home, i.e. opening it up to total strangers. On top of this, the fact that this woman 1) befriends strangers on Facebook and 2) slags people off on Facebook should signal that this person has serious boundaries issues and therefore isn’t someone you’d want to spend time with.
Peacefrog Colororanges ‘doubts’ aren’t the primary red flag as they ultimately even though they’re scrambled in with some stuff she could do with handling, kept her out of an odd situation. It’s also important to recognise that with the level of anxiety, it could have been in room in the centre of town with police guard and closed access to social networks and there would still have been an issue.
2 people here – one you can control, one you can’t. Facebook aside, the original choice to go to it was made by Colororange. Plenty of people go to meetup’s at homes although I imagine they’re more likely to know one another.
It’s very easy for us to pick faults with others but at the end of day, take the focus of them and bring it back to you.
Carrie
on 20/08/2011 at 5:41 pm
Heh funny this came up.. I was going to go to my first meetup today because it sounded fun – Dinner & a Movie. Well it turned out that the movie was some weird independent film (I prefer mainstream movies) and the dinner was at a pretty expensive place that is also an absinthe bar (I don’t drink but I wondered if that was one of the reasons they chose it). Though I was excited to get out there, I ended up backing out and I wondered if I was doing it for the wrong reasons. But it occurred to me that spending at least $40 on an event that didn’t even sound interesting to me was just plain silly. Especially since I’m trying to watch my money right now. So I cancelled and created my own suggestion for a bowling and pizza meetup.. MUCH more my style. I still want to meet new people, but not in situations that don’t match up with what I’m interested in. That struck me as trying to be something I’m not and I wouldn’t attract the kind of people I would want to hang out with in that situation anyway.
Magnolia
on 19/08/2011 at 11:28 pm
Well, I did not get the job I wanted. They put me on a list of instructors. It is interesting, isn’t it, how you can really want a job and go hard for it and if you don’t get it: well – I don’t sit around crying, wondering if I’ll ever get another job, thinking, I have been rejected for jobs in the past! I’m destined to NEVER be employed! 🙂 I don’t feel rejected; I feel like I came second in a race.
I do wonder, with a twinge, who beat me out for this term’s position but really, it doesn’t matter that much. The job is about what I need out of it, if it’s not happening, moving on.
Could it be that this is how I can feel about dating? I have never felt as strongly about a guy as I have about certain jobs: ie. THAT one, I want THAT one. I wonder what kind of relationships would spur me with that kind of calm, focused and self-assured energy that I bring to job interviews I really want a shot at, am qualified or almost qualified for, and am a bit nervous about?
I would like to be so confident that I don’t feel disadvantaged in the ‘competition’ amongst women, and could handle being with someone that others would also try hard for.
Magnolia
on 19/08/2011 at 11:30 pm
By the way I thought BR readers might find this article interesting. It suggests having high or low self esteem affects even what consumer items we choose or reject. The results suggest how harshly we can compare ourselves to others.
Notice, it’s not actually “how pretty” the women are compared to one another that matters (as if that is measurable) but how much self-esteem the woman has.
Michelle
on 20/08/2011 at 3:02 am
Bri
I have been there too and made the mistake of having a relationship with a second married man. It has just ended and it hurts like heck and I have to see him at work every day. In fact he is now avoiding me in the parking lot even though I have done nothing to try to reconnect with him–and his avoiding hurts too (that’s why I am here). Believe me when I say that no matter how long you would have stuck it out, he will not leave his wife. Take the time to heal and then be sure you are ready for a relationship with someone who is available. This is a lesson to be learned now, so that you don’t repeat it again. That is a great gift. It was a long relationship, so don’t beat up on yourself for hurting so badly.
grace
on 20/08/2011 at 10:41 am
Michelle
Your comment highlights something I realised in my brush with the MM:
HE CANNOT DO THE RIGHT THING
It hurts when he lurks in the carpark to make you feel sorry for him but it hurts when he avoids you in said carpark.
It hurts when he says he loves you
It hurts when he doesn’t say it.
It hurts when he says he will leave his wife.
It hurts when he doesn’t say anything about leaving his wife.
It hurts when he has sex with you
It hurts when he cuts the sex off so you can be “just friends”
It hurts his wife when he’s with you.
It hurts you when he’s with his wife.
It would hurt his wife to leave her (and, for a minute, try to entertain the idea that she would hurt more than YOU do)
It hurts you if he stays with her
It hurts his family when he takes his money, time and love away from them
It hurts you when he puts them first
Honestly and seriously – what do we expect him to do? Stop waiting for him to come up with a solution! He’s stuck because EVERYTHING HE DOES IS WRONG. Every nice thing he does for his wife is bad for you. Every nice thing he does for you is bad for his wife.
Be grateful it’s over.
Fearless
on 20/08/2011 at 11:19 am
Yes Grace, so true. I have thought of exactly what you have said here before ,any times – I had a thing with an MM many years ago and it hurt like hell. I cried for months and didn’t feel human again for at least a year – Oh yes, he was the love of my life (lol). Yet, I did love him (in as much as I understood what “love” was at the time) but it’s an episode that I bitterly regret for all kinds of reasons. I felt very guilty about it eventually (and still do) because I came to understand how badly *I* had actually behaved. And if I’d loved him (and had any human concern for another woman and her children) I would have put him out of his misery and sent him home for good long before the actual ‘end’ came about. It was horrible. Yes, Grace, it doesn’t matter what they do – it all hurts. All of it. They can do nothing right, they can say nothing right – not one thing. Ever. Because it is ALL wrong and can never be the right thing to be doing. The rejection you feel when they finally stay with the wife and don’t come back is dreadful. I remember having the cheek to feel soooo angry that he still had his life in tact and a wife/partner to spend it with – he still had everything that he had had before he met me while I was left alone and desolate to start again (like Ann Robinson on the Weakest Link – UK quiz show – her end line to the loser: “you leave with nothing”. And that about sums it up for the OW; whatever is whatever is, whatever he does or doesn’t do, whatever he says or doesn’t say the result is the same: You Leave With Nothing.
And that’s exactly how it should be. We see that later, but not at the time.
Fearless
on 20/08/2011 at 11:43 am
One last comment on that which occurs to me: I came to understand how being an OW is a VERY, VERY selfish thing to do. I came to understand what a horrid selfish person I was in trying to convince a man with a wife and children to be with me. We are so wrapped up in the the love fantasy bubble and in our supposed god-given right to pursue it, so wrapped up in our misplaced, warped sense of righteousness (“but you don’t understand – we love eachother!!!” – bollocks) that we fail, miserably fail, to recognise just how enormously self-absorbed, selfish, self-pitying and self-centred we actually are during these affairs.
Sorry to be blabbing now, probably off topic.
grace
on 20/08/2011 at 1:42 pm
Fearless
Ouch but true.
And let’s not forget HIS selfishness – heads he wins (wife and family), tails he wins (mistress). Yay for him!
The innocent party is his wife, picking up the groceries, sexing him (yes they are having sex), looking after the kids, planning their holidays while he TALKS SHITE about her behind her back. To a woman she doesn’t even know who wants to see her divorced and her kids reduced to occasional visits with dad (and her replacement).
Divorce is sometimes necessary but who knows what problems a couple could overcome if a third party doesn’t get in the way? And sometimes divorce is best for the children. But that’s not the OW’s decision.
Bringing this back on topic, I get that it’s difficult when an affair ends but let’s not prolong our agony by obsessing about the perceived rejection. The MM couldn’t reject me. I wasn’t his wife and I wasn’t even his girlfriend. What’s to reject? He couldn’t take me out, introduce me to his kids or his family, or take me on work functions. He couldn’t meet my friends. He couldn’t move in with me. He couldn’t ask me to marry him no matter how fabulous, sexy, smart etc I am. He wasn’t rejecting me .HE WAS MARRIED.
And don’t diss his wife, imagining that she’s some sexless harridan for your poor MM to be a cheat. She could just as easily be Cheryl Cole, Jackie Kennedy, Jennifer Aniston – they all got cheated on!
wicked74
on 20/08/2011 at 2:40 pm
You know what? This is true for ANY relationship with an EU. Everything they do is wrong – all the time. It doesn’t matter if my husband never cheated on me physically – he cheated me of his time and affection when he spent hours with his friends, on the phone, on the Internet. He might as well have cheated! I would feel less insulted being “rejected” for an actual person than for some flirty girl on Facebook. EVERYTHING HE DOES IS WRONG! Thank you, @grace, for making a very good point!
Michelle
on 20/08/2011 at 5:10 pm
Grace
So true. I’m not proud that I fell in the trap again, but what happened is he did say he was leaving his wife (because she had had an affair). Then, however, he went on a planned business/personal trip with her. I said let’s suspend this until you are really ended. When he came back from the trip he implied, invited me to his place for dinner making my favorite meal (they work in separate cities), and then initiated sex, which I naively went along with. Afterwards I found out he had not left and they had had a good time together and he was going to work on the marriage. Yes, I was in denial and should have asked before being intimate with him again. But at least when he told me he was still with her I left immediately and initiated NC (with one lapse so far after the parking lot incident). Anyway I am not happy that I started a relationship with a MM, but I am very happy that I ended it as soon as I saw the writing on the wall. All of this happened in the span of 7 weeks, so thankfully I know I will get over it. The tough part is that we work in the same building and have some of the same social contacts, and that is what I am struggling with. I don’t want the possibility of seeing each other and things being awkward to interfere with my comfort and happiness at work. I love my job. I emailed him to try to say that I didn’t want things to be awkward, but it was useless and counterproductive because he didn’t respond. I’m back now to NC and focusing on me.
The ex MM was always surprised that there was a reagee song that summed life up. This one even surprised me today. Even though I’ve heard it before, it resonated today. Hope you will listen.
Fedup
on 20/08/2011 at 7:13 am
I’m feeling discouraged as all my cousins have settled down young, yet I’m single again. It feels like you get over an ex, only to get screwed over by the next person. Meanwhile my parents think you have to be married just to do anything. They would be happy if I never left home.
grace
on 20/08/2011 at 10:15 am
Fedup
There’s your problem – your parents and their expectations. My parents weren’t bothered if I got married or not and I still had crap relationships. That’s not really the issue, the issue that they are controlling your life.
When you care too much about what other people think you can’t have good relationships. You won’t know who you really are, you doubt yourself and your boundaries are poor. You don’t bring your full self into relationships, you morph into a boyfriend (or even someone-i-went-out-with-twice) pleaser. Decent men get put off by that. But it attracts EUs – they like women with no boundaries. And it makes YOU attracted to them because you have a compulsion to jump through hoops. “Ooh, he’s a bit distant, married, living with someone, a player, a bit mean, ambiguous. I’ll see what I can do to please him and make him pick me. That’s exciting to me”
Stop blaming the ACs and EUs for the fact that you’re stuck at home and unhappy. I’m assuming you live in the Western world where, thankfully, women don’t need their parents’ permission of a man’s permission to live our lives. Yes the exes were numpties but you can’t do anything about that. Judge Judy sometimes yells ” You get no compensation for emotional distress. YOU PICKED HIM!!” The only thing you can do something about is who you pick. And the first step is to ask yourself WHY you picked them. And, please, “I love him/he’s charming/witty/good looking/intelligent/ we have good sex/he says nice things” is NOT the right answer. That’s just what you tell yourself.
Minky
on 22/08/2011 at 12:05 pm
@Fedup – i’m from an eastern family, so i am very familiar with the pressures of conforming to family beliefs and values, even though mine are the total opposite. I spent 6 years with a perfectly decent, but wrong for me, man because it was what i thought i should be doing. That’s not life. It will never make you happy, even if you do have someone and are in a ‘stable’ relationship, it still might not be the right one. Just because you’re not with a total knob-head, doesn’t mean all your problems are solved.
Eventually, at the age of 31, i decided to do what i wanted. I decided to identify and stick to my values and tell my parents what my life was going to be, rather than asking them what it should be. They treated me like i had completely lost the plot. They asked me on several occasions whether i knew what the hell i was doing. My dad actually got angry and said “Don’t come crying to me when…..”. The end result? It has been two years since i started doing my own thing and i have never been happier. My parents still look at me like i’m one of those seven legged creatures in a jar, but they are still my parents who love me and, in any case, they never really understood me anyway. We agree to disagree.
Doing your own thing in spite of social and cultural norms does take courage. You do get a lot of flack for it, but if keeping quiet and ‘going along with things’, for an easier life is the alternative, i’d much rather put up with the occasional aggrevation.
Hope this helps!
Fearless
on 20/08/2011 at 1:44 pm
I still find the “rejection” of the ex EUM hardest to stomach when I find it hard to mentally re-invent him into the person I now understand him to be.
I struggle sometimes to completely demolish my own invention or erroneous belief about him and to re-invent him back again to the reality of the man I should have seen and acted upon when I met him. It is very hard (for me anyway) to re-align him consistently in my mind with the reality of who he actually is, who he has shown himself to be to me – consistently.
I am convinced that the EUM was NOT the man I thought (or hoped) he was. So I know I should not feel ‘rejected’ and that I did in fact reject myself for all those years I pursued the relationship and stuck it out with him. But…. I still find myself thinking about him, reacting to him and my thoughts of him in the “past person”, if you see what I mean. It’s such a hard habit to break. I did this yesterday. And it floored me for a whole day – hence I came back on to read BR. I found out that he had been promoted at work to a “big” position, one he had talked to me a lot about – well, now he has it. Fine. Thing is, when I fell of the NC wagon about four/five months ago (March). At that point I was communicating with him regularly for about 2/3 weeks. We slept together twice. What I know now is that he had already been promoted to this “big” position, seriously as big as it gets in his profession. He never mentioned it to me. He kept it from me. And I have no idea why he would do that (who the F cares, I hear you all say, and I agree – but it hurt!) Yesterday when I realised this had happened and he didn’t tell me, I was floored, rejected, slapped in the face – you name it I felt it. And my reaction about it was in the “past person” not the present person that I know him to be (if you see what I mean)… all the old misery and let down and rejection came flooding back and I felt like a worthless peice of shit the whole day. Am dealing with it better today… but am still feeling the effects; I feel demotivated. That feeling of rejection is shit. It’s sore. It hurts. I need to get my gumption back. And fast. I lost it yesterday.
wicked74
on 20/08/2011 at 2:52 pm
@Fearless – It seems like such a small thing, doesn’t it? But the shockwaves just keep pouring through you… He and I both pushed the Reset button yesterday knowingly. (I am punishing myself – it’s a long story) Thought I could stick it out this time. This morning, I go outside and on the ground I see the outer wrapper of a cigarette pack. I know it’s his. He knows I HATE littering. So I ask him to pick it up, he does. Then he walks over towards another car, casually strolling, finishing his cigarette. I know EXACTLY what he’s doing. He’s dropping that litter. So I take him to work. I come home and check. Yes, the litter is there, next to the wheel of the car.
No one but you all here would GET why this is the straw that broke the camel’s back. It doesn’t MATTER what he thinks. It bothers me, end of story. He could have easily put that trash in his pocket. But he does not care what I think and how I feel. And a little tiny piece of cellophane had to be my messenger. My heart sunk when I saw it but no surprise. Enough is enough already. I’m tired of being disgusted with myself.
Fearless
on 20/08/2011 at 3:34 pm
Wicked: “am tired of being disgusted with myself”. I so get that! You get tired of practically begging for their rejection of you until you realise you are the one who is doing all the rejecting – of you. It’s strange how we can find loving some daft clown so irresistible and yet so hard to love ourselves. I wish I had all the answers. I wish I could always feel what I know I should be feeling. What I do recognise now is what (and who) is bad for me… that’s got to be a good thing, even when it’s sore – the bad thing is sorer! The litter-bug is a twit, Wicked, chuck him to the kerb!
grace
on 20/08/2011 at 7:01 pm
Fearless, Wicked
Sorry to hear about this setback.
In my experience with breakups, you really start to turn the corner around the six month mark. It may take a year to fully recover from a big break up. Don’t panic, it’s not a year of unalloyed misery, it’s ups and downs, but with the overall trend being UP.
Falling off the wagon isn’t the end of the world but it does set you back a bit in your recovery. Fearless, it’s only been about four months since you last saw him; it’s not a very long time. Especially at our age!
It’s like snakes and ladders, you’ll get there in the end but the fewer snakes you slide down the quicker it will be. Emailing/facebook etc are like little snakes; sex is like sliding down a big snake (forgive the yucky sexual innuendo) When you know he doesn’t care about you, contact is just an opportunity for him to let you down/reject you again. He is just being what he is. Like they say in the mafia (allegedly) before they shoot you in the head “it’s not personal”. But no-one likes to be rejected or shot in the head so best avoid it.
There are good days and bad days. Let them pass and have faith that you’re on the right path. Don’t invest too much in a good day “I feel great; I feel SO GREAT I’m gonna see how he’s doing” or in a bad day “I feel SO BAD. It’s all over for me!”
And it’s best if you don’t try to find out whether he gets promoted/married/the Nobel Peace Prize. That said, if WE have the right to live a full life after the breakup, so does he. I’m sure even the best of us would get a kick out of our exes crying and weeping over us and not getting over our fabulousness, malingering in a half-life of non-achievement, but it’s better for Mankind as a whole if we all pick up the pieces and live to our full potential. Otherwise, none of us would be any use to anybody, least of all ourselves!
Natasha
on 20/08/2011 at 9:18 pm
Grace, that was all kinds of amazing. I really needed to read it today, so thank you! I had blocked all communication (Facebook, email, cell) from my ex-AC, so Genuis McGee decided to call me from another number. Not knowing it was him, I answered the call. He told me he’d been thinking about me and “just wanted to say hi”. I was stunned – I know I shouldn’t be, but things ended SO badly the last time I thought after a few half-hearted attempts at him contacting me after the fact, I wasn’t going to have him bothering me after 7+ months NC. Not to amp up the drama meter on this, but it was really, really insulting. I got off the phone as quickly as possible, with him asking if he could call me again. I said that no, it wasn’t appropriate and I am moving on with my life…of course he starts bleating about all of his problems and saying that he was thinking of moving to the city that I live in (heard that one before) but didn’t know what to do. I said that I did not want to hear from him again, asked him to respect my wishes and hung up. Contact like that really is just them trying to create another opportunity to reject us again!
Fearless
on 20/08/2011 at 10:44 pm
Thanks amazing Grace. I’ll be just fine. I am doing really well generally. It’s funny, yesterday as I was feeling all the familiar stomach churning of another slap in the face from him – imagined rejection! I really tuned in to how I was feeling. I decided to sit down and just FEEL it – all of it – and describe it to myself. And I realised that I felt absolutely terrible about myself, weak and worthless, neglected, dejected, rejected… and I was horrified to recognise this as a familiar feeling, like an old friend, but not so friendly!! – from the ex EUM relationship. I thought, ‘my God – I used to live with that regularly’, and it used to feel normal to me when I was in the midst of the Mr EUM – unpleasant, yes, but I was actually so used it I had come to expect to feel like that pretty regularly. I never really questioned it as something I had any control over. I just coped with it until it passed – and it never really went away, not really; not for very long, it lurked. I am NOT ever going to ignore or just accept those kind of feelings again without taking action to resolve whatever is causing them. And thank God for Nat and BR I have the foundations and the tools now to deal with it. I know what action to take and I will. Thank you. Everyone.
wicked74
on 21/08/2011 at 1:49 am
@grace – Thanks for some very good advice. I have trouble being kind to myself. Very good at criticising me, of course. It’s funny you brought up the 6 mos. mark. The lightbulb came on for me on Valentine’s Day of this year – almost exactly 6 months ago. I realized he was an emotional abuser. If we stayed together, it surely would have gotten physical eventually. Sadly, I have done this backwards and gotten over him while still staying with him. The only “good” thing about that is that I’m very calm now that he’s left. I feel relieved! It’s like I mourned this whole time and now I’m cried out. I still have my moments but I’m not on the floor doing Munch’s scream anymore! I’ve lost that lovin’ feelin’ – and it’s not coming back. THANK GOD!
runnergirl
on 20/08/2011 at 8:35 pm
Hey Fearless, I hope you are doing better today. After reading BR for about 8 months now, I think I’ve figured out how to spot an AC/EUM: When you are left scratching your head thinking WTF, who does that?
Bri and all the former OW’s, like Fearless, it is difficult to wrap my head around who I imagined him to be and who he actually is. I started writing that section of the Unsent Letter yesterday and the difference is striking. Bri, by the time he comes slithering back around (if he does), you will have the strength to reject him and his lying, decietful ways. MM’s are liars. Of course, that is not to diminish my role as a former OW.
Amazing Grace, you are amazing. “Like they say in the mafia (allegedly) before they shoot you in the head “it’s not personal”. But no-one likes to be rejected or shot in the head so best avoid it.” Breaking NC and sucking it and seeing is like being shot in the head.
Elle
on 21/08/2011 at 6:29 am
Fearless and Natasha (and all of you!), sending some e-love to you. Fearless – I can relate to how that feels, that sense of being somehow tricked again, even though he was just being, as Grace says in her usual, perfect way, his useless, selfish self. It’s a shame that there is not an indicative relationship between professional success and good relationship habits – in fact, if there’s any, it’s an inverse one! You’re right, it’s Fantasy Man. I have been out with Fantasy Man before. Awful.
Natasha – Can too see how you felt insulted by AC’s phonecall. What an ego this guy has! He just can’t handle being invisible to you. But, of course, once you’re vulnerable again, he will play up. It’s just a control/validation test! You sound like you dealt with it perfectly, no matter what the emotional lag was. Keep going forward!
As for me, I’ve had a rough few days in light of this rejection issue. My father, in an argument, said, directly (for the first time) that he finds, and has always found, me difficult to get along with, and that it had been his cross to bear in life (but that he just has to live with it). I can’t really express the full weight of this because it’s tied up with many horrible events, and was accompanied by signs of rage, then this kind of martyr-coldness. As if that weren’t enough, despite my best efforts, this then spills over to me having real difficulties with new man this weekend. He was sharp with me, about something that was fair for him, but unfair for me (and we recognised this). Nothing too dramatic happened, on the outside, but there’s such a big part of me that now wants to terminate the relationship because I can’t really afford to risk someone mistreating me. I am finding it really hard to resolve things – on the one hand, it feels easier just to switch off and leave than deal with someone having those angry-man qualities (however much he manages them 95% of the time), and then I feel like some of my power is warped because I can’t entirely tell what is about him and what is family stuff. Holding onto my a sense that I would leave a bad relationship and could cope with that – but this really does suck, having this sense of needing to be able to bail, and possibly over-reacting to threats (but possibly not – maybe he was genuinely being crap?!). Watchful and a little wounded
Natasha
on 21/08/2011 at 6:47 pm
Elle, thank you for the e-love and I’m sending lots back to you! I’m so sorry your father said that – parents can come out with some real crackerjack statements at times. I highly doubt that’s how he really feels about you. My mother said something similar to me a few years ago when we were having an argument, but at the end of the day, even if they are annoyed with us for some reason at the time, they still love us! In any event, he owes you an apology – that was a shitty thing to say. As far as the new guy goes, I would take a deep breath and try to relax – talk about easier said than done. I know that when I’m not getting along with someone in my family, I am much less objective in my other relationships! Is there something specific he said that upset you? Was it a one-off or part of a bigger pattern? I think we ALL deal with the urge to flee when we sense rejection, mainly because we failed to flee soon enough in our previous relationships!
Hey Elle. What an unpleasant episode to experience with your father. I think the main thing to temper it with is the fact that it was 1) said in an argument and 2) his perspective which may not be entirely emotionally honest never mind honest. It positions him as being a ‘poor poor father’ with a difficult child and absolves himself of any contribution. It doesn’t sound like he’s easy either. So all I can tell you from personal experience and from the many similar tales I hear is that with parents like this, a ‘conversation’ like this was always on the cards. It’s like years of built up frustration. My mother told me that I’d been difficult from when I was a baby in the cot and chose my father and ‘everyone else’ over her. As a baby. I actually burst out laughing and then felt crashing hurt. These ‘conversations’ are designed to make it sound like you would’ve been treated better…if you weren’t so difficult or whatever.
Here’s the thing – your parents are supposed to love and nurture you. I’m not saying they’re not infallible because lord knows they fuck up, but you can’t just go “Ah sod it. She doesn’t jump to my beat/is a bit too clever/needs a bit more time and effort than I’m used to doing/doesn’t think the sun shines out of my arse – shag it, I’ll just opt out of being a parent”
Don’t give him your power. When you stop looking for his approval and love and basically expecting him to be different to what he’s always been, is when you can exhale and just let things be. I refuse to have these types of conversations anymore – my last one was April ’10. You remind him where’s he’s let you down – remember that before you put the responsibility for his actions on your back and carry it around with you.
Re your fella, I’d be careful of doing anything ‘rash’ especially with the two events so close. Be sure you’re seeing and dealing with each one separately. People do get angry – you do, I do, everyone does. It’s what type of anger and how it resolves itself out. It’s impossible to avoid conflict in a relationship. I don’t know what the nature of the argument was or what went down, but as someone who has previously been hypersensitive to anger or ‘criticism’, it’s important to recognise that arguments happen and that a raised voice doesn’t mean you’re 7 again having something ‘bad’ happen to you. My M.O. was to bail at arguments. 5 years ago I made a promise to myself to grow up and learn to argue and experience conflict maturely. I’ve stuck to it. There is also nothing wrong with saying ‘Er, easy now on the shouting. Time out.’ or whatever. You have to decide if this is a bad relationship and if it is, get out.
Fearless
on 21/08/2011 at 8:34 pm
Thanks for your encouragement Elle. I’d like to offer you some decent advice – but Nat’s is as good as it gets! I agree also with Natasha – if he has been a good dad wo hasn’t been a hurtful bugger since day dot then it’s just a blip.
My mother always said that she loves all her children dearly but she did not always like them. And no wonder, I say! Lol. Our parents are just people who get along better with some people than with others. The good ones love their children, and also the children they don’t always get along with when they grow up (I don’t believe any parent should say a baby or a child was “difficult” or selfish, like Nat’s story – and blame it on the baby or the child – that’s just daft! The adult is the adult and should take the adult role) I have always known that both my mum and dad got along with my first younger sister much better then they did with me – much better (as teenagers and grown-ups, I mean). I was the quiet, serious one who read a lot of books and she was the ‘fun’ person! (ha! but I was the good-lookin sister! lol). I would sometimes feel a twinge of hurt when I knew they preferred her company to mine – especially my dad did – that they really liked her better – but I also always reminded myself that they did not love her more – we were all loved the same – all loved if not always liked! So I was also loved very dearly, they just got along better as people with my sister than with me. I don’t know if that helps.
Elle
on 22/08/2011 at 1:50 am
Thanks again, ladies – as ever, great and generous advice. I am afraid to say that my father’s comments were a response to me trying to apologise (the next day) and the scene is far more like Natalie’s with her mother (ie he has this idea that I have somehow victimised him since birth). Certainly no apology on the horizon – in fact, when I saw him a couple of days ago, he had that giddy, gleeful tone as if he’d finally got to say what he’d been wanting to say to me. Anyway, I am not taking it as I might have a decade ago, and certainly not since the AC experience (crawling from that trench has been good training for all sorts of things!). So, yes, I just have to avoid the ‘conversations’ and carry on. As for new man, he has his own family stuff – stuff you can’t know about during the first weeks of a relationship – and he was reacting sharply to me asking him about it. He’s very touchy about it, and I know this issue has been cause for serious problems in his romantic life. I see this as an amber flag. I am going to leave it til I feel a little more robust, and then see if we can have a calm talk about it because there can’t be this whole area of his life that is off-limits for me and a source of anger for him. But I can see now that I have to be gentle and see myself outside it, rather than mixing all the feelings and meanings together. And you’re very right about being able to cope with anger and fighting – in the past, I have either been with passive super-gently guys or horribly angry ones – so my skills are a little skewed. Finally, yes, will opt-out if it’s simply not working (ie making me feel bad and out of touch with my values), for good reasons. But not yet.
Natasha
on 22/08/2011 at 6:57 am
Elle, my aunt is the female version of your Dad, so I’ve seen what you’re talking about. In the case of my aunt, she really does love my cousin, her only child, she’s just so dysfunctional that she can’t express it normally. The stuff that she does isn’t just confined to that relationship – she can’t relate normally to anyone in the family. When we were little, she used to tell me I was her favorite niece, because for who knows what reason she didn’t like my sister. 20-something years later, she still doesn’t and no one has a clue why! She was so nasty to her that my mother had to basically cut her out of our lives – it’s so sad all around. What my cousin does with her is to take the good parts of her relationship with her mother and let the bad parts roll off her back as best she can. Please pardon the extended Natasha Family Anecdote – I figured one more reminder that you’re not alone in this couldn’t hurt! As far as the challenge with the new guy goes, I think you’re right on with how you’re handling it. Keep being awesome 🙂
Bri
on 20/08/2011 at 4:13 pm
Grace, Fearless, Runnergirl and others,
Your insight is so valuable to me as women who have been in my position. I read your words and know that I am not anywhere close to where you are, but you are examples that it does get better. After the five days of NC when he approached me in the parking lot, I thought it would make me feel better to tell him that I hoped he’d come back to me – WRONG. I cried for two hours in my car as soon as the conversation ended.
I seem to hold onto the notion that if he would “take me back”, I’d at least still have the peace of mind of having hope that he’d leave his wife one day…but the two years we were together, I didn’t have peace of mind. Fearless, like you I am trouble separating the beautiful image of him I had in my head for so long and who he is in reality. I still have that “if only we could be together, everything would be okay” notion in my head, because I’m in withdrawal – he really is a drug to me, and my body is reacting to his absence.
This hurts more than anything I could have ever imagined, but I know that if I can get through it the way you ladies have, I’ll come out on the other side stronger and, more importantly, happier. I just have to shake my longing to be with him again, because unfortunately I’m still in the place where I’d take him back if given the opportunity – and that scares me.
You all are right – I have no boundaries and I’ve struggled with self-esteem issues my entire life. Daddy issues, mommy issues, abusive exboyfriend issues. The crying, the anxiety attacks, the sadness and feeling worthless have made me feel dead inside.
Thank you for your words, and I know I’ll need them many more times in the coming weeks/months. I rely on this blog and the stories of all of you to get me through the day – I don’t know how I’d be cop ing without them.
Fearless
on 20/08/2011 at 10:05 pm
Bri,
your experience is similar to all of us recovering from EUMs and ACs – it’s really the same deal: he is unavailable. But he would like to keep you as an option. If you tell him your happy to accept the relationship/affair on his terms (forever secret and clandestine) he’ll happily oblige! Beieve me. He just doesn’t’ want the hassle of a moaner and groaner who is expecting too much of him – like leaving his wife or actually providing you with a real relationship. Be aware of him mangaging down your expectations – you are vulnerable to that; vunerable to finding yourself in the OW position for many years. You have a lot of work to do on yourself to avoid the constant misery of ‘rejection’ that comes with the EUM/MM. I said before as well as CC that I think the key is rasing your self-esteem and being able to validate yourself. You DO deserve someone who can actually be with you without having to dump – reject – a wife and children. This is a hopeless situation, Bri – you need to dig deep to get some courage and face this awful problem head on. Start thinking with your head. He is NOT that special! you are NOT this desperate! You have your value with or without him or his hopeless affair! Stay as far away from him as possible. You need to get out of the fog before you can get some clarity to work with. Every day you pine for him is a day you reject yourself, your own life and your own potential to have a fulfilling life. This helps me – I get angry now when I have any kind of ‘relapse’ (I have lost yesterday and today to a “relapse”) – I am upset about it cos I know I am allowing him to rob me of some more of my life – even if it’s just one day! Cos that’s one a day I will never get back – and it’s one day that I could have enjoyed, been content, productive, cheerful and enjoying the company of friends or family or happily out and about in the garden, or lolling around enjoying the rare sunshine we had here today with a nice glass of wine and my book instead of mulling around like I was sick or something, achieving nothing and feeling like shit! We don’t just reject ourselves when we give them our time and energy and emotions, we reject and neglect our own lives. I reclaim mine as of right now. Tomorrow belongs to me!
AdrienneBytheSea
on 21/08/2011 at 10:54 am
“Every day you pine for him is a day you reject yourself, your own life and your own potential to have a fulfilling life.” Amen to that. I have gotten more done in the last two and a half weeks since the fog lifted and I went NC than I have in ages. And I don’t mean just getting chores done. But honestly looking at myself and finally getting it and doing the journaling and reading to begin the process of change. All of what you say, Fearless, is spot on. I lost my last Thursday night to a spell of crying/mourning the “loss” of the physical intimacy the MM and I had for six years. But the next morning, bleary eyed and looking like sh*t, I got onto this site and through reading, gave myself a good slap upside the head. Reading here helps me to VALIDATE MYSELF and my decision to go NC. I see now my part in this “sickness” and it’s down to me to heal myself, not reject myself. At 48 years old, I don’t have any more time to waste. Better, as you say, to do the work on myself, and also enjoy life! Action is key. I hit the gym hard yesterday. I’ve been cleaning the house. I’ve been writing. I’ve been cuddling with the cat. And cooking myself nutritious meals. So much better than pining for a “connection” of “love” that existed only in my head, despite the great sex. In the end, (and all along), he was a selfish, lying cheater. And I, with no boundaries and fuzzy values, made that choice. No more!
grace
on 21/08/2011 at 4:35 pm
fearless
exactly. the main reason these EUs sniff around after a break up is to see if they can get something from us on “reduced” terms- eg “just friends”, FWB, booty call, someone to sympathise with their wailing, or whatever crazy arrangement they can wring out of us.
“Surely she must understand by now that I WON’T leave my wife and kids/commit/give up other women/be monogomous/pay my own way. Now that she’s missing me and desperate I can go back and get something for nothing. Worth a try”.
runnergirl
on 20/08/2011 at 10:27 pm
Hey Bri and others,
In my experience, Grace’s comments with regards to boundaries is spot on as usual. My newly established Boundary No. 1: No married men, no men attached, separated, or otherwise involved with another woman (or man). It occured to me after reading Natalie’s “Getting to Grips with Values” (great BTW), core values (not common interests) act in correlation with boundaries. Core Value No. 1: Honesty. Thus, Boundary No. 1 plus Core Value No. 1 ought to add up to 2, right?
Lisa
on 21/08/2011 at 4:24 pm
Hi Bri and others,
I get the pain, the physical and emotional agony of separation with these attachments. I had another relapse because I don’t want to experience what NML calls, “rejection, rejection”. Over 3 years with a man who told me a few months ago, “it just wasn’t quite there for me” and I found a way to make it okay to hook up with him again. This time after regular contact he just disappeared without one word leaving me with this silence. I am sure he is with someone he actually wants to be with, feeding somewhere else. I find myself feeling incredulous even though he has hurt me so many times in the past (but never just disappeared without a word). I am still stuck on how he never wanted to be my boyfriend but has signed up for others and even cut me off to pursue one. It makes me feel different from many of the other situations people talk about here because I can whack myself over the head with the notion that he wasn’t EU, just disinterested in me, proof positive that I am ‘not up to standard’. Somehow, this cycle of self abuse feels better than the big uncertain chasm that is my future without him. All that to say I found this book that might be helpful to others here called, How to Break You Addiction to a Person by Howard Halpern. He addresses the horrible withdrawal from bad relationships because of attachment issues.
I just wish I felt more hopeful about being able to actually attract someone I would actually date (can string a sentence together, doesn’t act like a horny 18 year old, doesn’t have breath so bad I can smell it across the table i.e. the last 3 guys I went out with). I don’t know about others, but that is partly why I am scared to let go…the prospects feel so bleak. Right now he hasn’t given me a choice because he left but should he come back, I don’t think I could resist. I don’t think I want to. I want to want to but some people feel like it would be better to be alone than be with someone you don’t like or who doesn’t like you. I don’t feel that way. I feel like I have dated for so many years now and the men that like me are not appealing for some of the reasons I mentioned above and then there is the guy I speak of her who isn’t attracted enough to me but I am to him…either way I am compromising, me feeling less, them feeling less or being alone. Sometimes I wonder what…
Lisa I’m sorry to hear of what has happened although admittedly unsurprised as I guessed this is where you had been. In simple terms, the reason why a man like this doesn’t ‘choose’ you is because he doesn’t *have* to. You’ve made it clear repeatedly over 3 years that you’re ok being an option. When he isn’t with you and he treats you badly, you’re still an option and still yapping at his heels trying to get him to choose you – there’s nothing to choose as you’re there regardless. And the fact is, if you want to get into the semantics of it all – he has ‘chosen’ you repeatedly – you’re the chosen one to fall back on.
What you don’t realise is that each fall back is a test of your worth – he’d only really recognise how valuable a person he has mistreated for 3 years was when she stopped giving him the time of day and was no longer an option.
As I’ve said to you before, I’m not here to convince you Lisa and I know that a gazillion people could share their experiences and point out how awful his actions are and your own treatment of yourself but you’re not interested because you insist on not only making his actions about you but separating yourself from ‘everyone’ and determining that you’re a special case of worthlessness. Everything that you participate in and tell yourself about love, relationships and yourself are what you use as justifications for continuing as you are. Everything that happens no matter how much evidence that there is of 1) the other persons character and 2) it not being anything to do with you, you make it about you.
You don’t want me (or anyone) to say what a shit he is etc – you want someone to say ‘Yes Lisa it’s all your fault.’
It is laughable that you’re worried about not being up to standard for a cretin which shows just how low you’re aiming.
I only hope that one day you look up long enough from the self hatred and start treating *you* like someone that’s valuable and worthwhile.
grace
on 21/08/2011 at 7:36 pm
NML
“special case of worthlessness”. Love it. It’s weird but lots of men and women (addicts, fallback girls, the suicidal) would rather be a special case than just plain ordinary. Been there myself.
Lisa, please dig yourself out of your pit and join the rest of us.
You’re not so far gone that the solutions which work for everyone else won’t work for you.
Unless you’ve killed someone?
Lisa
on 25/08/2011 at 2:36 am
Hi Nat,
I think you are so wise and I appreciate the time you take to respond thoughtfully to comments. I try to take in what is said on this blog and do feel like I have learned a lot. I struggle to make changes but I don’t think I am exactly the same as when I landed at BR. It is a fabulous place that you have created here. I am trying to understand why it has been hard for me to take in your response to me and I am wondering if you can help me with that. I know you aren’t here to convince me but I do want to try and understand this in a way that isn’t so painful (like your explanation) but what I don’t get is when I think about never making him choose because I was always there, I don’t think that acknowledges that if he wasn’t into me (wasn’t attracted enough at beginning or didn’t feel the right chemistry), he wouldn’t choose me for a relationship no matter what I did or didn’t do and that is where the pain and rejection lie. Don’t get me wrong, I know you can teach someone how to treat you or turn them off with neediness but usually I don’t act insecure unless I feel insecure and he made me feel that way pretty soon in because he acted the way someone does when they aren’t that into you. The fact that I pursued anyway is indicative of my issues and resulted in more rejection and his treatment does say stuff about his character but the underlying pain is around him not wanting me. Me knowing that he has introduced others to his friends, loved others, chased others but not me…in knowing that my friend is his type (he told me she was hot), she is prettier than me and has the body type he likes and that it might have gone differently if he met her instead of me. This is what I just can’t kick my ass past and why I keep protesting responses…I want to believe it wasn’t about me, it would feel better but I wasn’t what he wanted. I feel like it’s just a case of unrequited love with a douchebag.
Lisa, hard as it may be to hear, it’s an over statement of the obvious that you weren’t who he wanted. But the fact that you claim to have “unrequited love with a douchebag” and that you have always known that he’s “just not that into you” answers your own question. I’m not sure what you want Lisa. What is it that you want?
It’s not like you have come here and said “I met this amazing guy with umpteen great qualities but he wasn’t interested and he went on with his life and ever since, I’ve been devastated by the fact that he didn’t want me. He really was such a great guy”.No Lisa. You’re here trying to rationalise “I met an asshole three years ago, who pretty quickly revealed himself to be an asshole and treated me in a less than manner. He obviously wasn’t that into me although to be fair, it’s not like being a decent person in a decent relationship is on his agenda anyway and even if he *had* wanted to be with me, he would still have been an asshole *anyway*. Once he decided that I wasn’t the one for him, he didn’t move on completely and instead kept me in the background to use and abuse, although to be fair, I made myself available for it and chased him down and even when he moved on and claimed to be in love and asked me for advice, I sat there chit chatting to him and then took him back *again* only for him to disappear.”
“what I don’t get is when I think about never making him choose because I was always there, I don’t think that acknowledges that if he wasn’t into me (wasn’t attracted enough at beginning or didn’t feel the right chemistry), he wouldn’t choose me for a relationship no matter what I did or didn’t do and that is where the pain and rejection lie.”
Where are these ‘others’ Lisa? If these people are so fantastic, why isn’t he with them? Where are these people who he has introduced to his friends? Where are these people that he’s chased? Where are these people that he’s ‘loved’? Do you even know what that means?! Why has he been sleeping with/around you if these people are oh so special? Why, when he said he was in love *to* you only three weeks after you broke up, were you able to get back together afterwards and then have him disappear again? Where is that love now? If your friend is his type or he has a type, why isn’t he with it? He has met her and he’s not exactly citizen of the year – if he wanted to have a crack at her, I’m sure he would have done.
He was never ‘choosing’ you for a relationship. He hasn’t ‘chosen’ anyone for a relationship otherwise he would have been in and *stayed* in one.
You could have been different, you still wouldn’t have had a relationship with him. This is evidenced by the fact that this prize of a man is not in a relationship, hasn’t held down a relationship, isn’t with any of these people you overvalue so much and is in fact a twat. He might have behaved slightly better but that’s like me saying that a man that beats his girlfriend wouldn’t have done it if he were more attracted or felt the right chemistry or she had more self-respect – she wouldn’t be there and he’d still be a beater; he’d just be beating someone else.
You still wouldn’t have had a relationship. This would also have been over three years ago if you had been different because you like any other self-respecting person would have realised he was a jackass and that he wasn’t interested and WALKED.
You do not want to believe it wasn’t about you. I don’t believe that for even two seconds. I’ll believe that when I read it. Actions speak louder than words – every comment you’ve made has been variations of “I refuse to believe it isn’t me” even after being away from the site. You don’t ‘get’ what I or anyone else has said to you because it doesn’t suit your agenda. That’s OK because you have to live your life and make your choices. Some people are ready to look at things differently, to let things go, to fight for themselves, to change, to end the pattern, to stop analysing the crap out of other people’s shitty behaviour and be accountable for their own. You are not there yet. Hopefully one day you will be.
Natasha
on 25/08/2011 at 1:01 pm
Lisa, listen to what Nat is telling you. When I was in the early days of NC and very busy denying the reality of who and what I’d been involved with, I posted something along the lines of, “But I think he was so much nicer to his exes!”. One of the ladies, who I am beyond eternally grateful to, said something that became my “light bulb moment”. What she said boiled down to (pardon the paraphrasing), “He has no empathy for you, he’s a crappy person. If it was so great with his exes, where are these women now? I hope they are not all sitting around wondering why he does what he does.” When I read that, it was like….BINGO! I still have my wobbly times where I cringe that I let a bunch of bs go on for so long, but what this lovely woman said to me became the catalyst for a whole new way of life. Let this be your light bulb moment.
Lisa
on 25/08/2011 at 1:07 pm
I am daft because when you were saying things about his character (and it not having anything to do with me), I thought you were saying that it wasn’t that he wasn’t into me, it was that he was an asshole. I guess you had already known the first part and were trying to explain the second. Thanks for your response.
Fearless
on 21/08/2011 at 9:10 pm
Lisa,
I feel for you and am not a millions miles away from the feelings you have described- though I am getting through them now and once where there was a tunnel I can now see a bright and life-giving light.
I want to look at this statement you made:
“I want to want to but some people feel like it would be better to be alone than be with someone you don’t like or who doesn’t like you. I don’t feel that way.”
I spent years and years rationlising and minimising and convincing myself that a barely there on again, off again relationship was better than being alone – better than nothing. I really did think it was better than the alternative, whatever that was – stupid men with bad breath – or whatever else that was also not going to be any use to me.
Yep, I thought, there’s nothing better out there anyway. I was certain I was right. Now I think, well, maybe I will never meet anyone I want to be with and maybe I will. But I know there’s one thing out there that is better than a barely there, on/off, non-commital crap relationship: ME. I am out there.
And so are you.
Ask yourself this: in all honesty, how *not alone* have you actually been while you’ve been involved with this man?
What I came to understand is that I was way more “alone” in the barely there, half in/ half out, on again/off again relationship than I am now that I am officially “alone”, now that he is no more. When you find yourself, you won’t be alone; you’ll be getting you and *your* life back. All these men have for you is “aloneness”. There is no togetherness in relationships where one or t’other is not really in it. You are more *alone* in these relationships than you ever are by yourself becaue there is no true connection. These relationships are inherently lonely and isolating. If that’s the kind of *not alone* you can convince yourself about you maybe as well get a cardboard cut out of George Clooney and be not alone with that (lol!). Seriously though, try not to connect a man that you can stand to be around or who can stand to be around you as being “not alone”. Try to connectwith yourself. Discover yourself and see how fab you are and everything else will take on a whole different hue and will take on something very important – potential for better.
Lisa
on 22/08/2011 at 1:14 am
Thank you for your responses everyone. “Special case of worthlessness”…yup, that about covers how I feel about myself. It was a short relapse with him, I was alone for a bit, then dated a few guys and then returned to the pains source. This book that I referred to earlier in my post talks a lot about Attachment Hunger that stems from childhood. It is putting into words the agony that accompanies some people with being “alone” and prevents them from ending a bad relationship…even an attachment to a assclown feels better to me than how invisible and worthless I feel without him. It’s such a weird contradiction about how I feel beautiful and visible when he is on my couch but overall worthless because he never wanted me to be his girlfriend. I guess I never felt it would matter if I had boundaries (made him choose) and he validated that when he told me it wasn’t quite there for him. I had the sense pretty early on that if I expected anything from him, he would walk and I didn’t want him to. I always felt I was the one who would be missing out. Anytime I tried to lay down the law, he would walk (even at the beginning when he didn’t know he could come back). Like he said, I don’t think he was ever that into me or at least not enough to date me but I didn’t and don’t want to accept it. I know it’s a short term vs. long term kinda thing and that you are right, the work is not going to lost on me if I can bare the pain of moving through it. It’s a deeper more primal pain in the short term than the bittersweet pain of obsessing about HIM.
anoosh
on 23/08/2011 at 4:19 am
hi, I just wanted to add a comment here on the subject of the books out there on what is essentially being framed as love or romance addiction, codependence, and programs to deal with these. I’ve read every single one of them, and every other relationship/he’s-just-not-into-you/get-your-ex-back/after-the-breakup thing on the shelf of barnes&noble. I also joined an actual support group for a couple months, where the philosophy adhered to was that we were all helpless love addicts, and that it was “our disease” that caused the withdrawal. I never bought into it for a moment. maybe it works for some people. hey, I wish them only the best, and don’t want to disparage anything that exists to help people in pain. I think there are people who do have anxiety, obsessive, and other disorders related to relationships, and they really need help. but I am so thankful that someone pointed me to Baggage Reclaim, because for my money, *this* is the way to go! instead of agreeing I had no control over changing my emotional state, something in the tone here right away made me feel I *could* get over it. a lightbulb did go on: I had to get to the bottom of whatever caused 25+ years of EU relationships, I needed an explanation for what the hell that was, and to deal with my grief without succumbing to some sort of victim-mentality I didn’t believe in. it’s up to *me* to take the responsibility for my well-being. the power is within *me* to change my EUMmagnet-superpowers into Truly Available Woman, who can leap over tall buildings of A**clowns faster than a speeding bullet, etc. I’m not there yet, but for the first time ever, I fully expect to reach my goal: that I will not get demolished in the future if someone rejects me romantically. that’s an exciting thought!
grace
on 23/08/2011 at 10:37 am
anoosh
I agree that there’s a danger of “over-medicalising” our problems. I’ve known “alcoholics” who have been sober for 20+ years who still refer to themselves as alcholics and see themselves as basket cases (to put it bluntly). That would be like me constantly referring to myself as a recovering fallback girl. I’m not, I’m am absolutely not that woman anymore!
Life’s tough enough without us victimising ourselves.
grace
on 25/08/2011 at 11:04 am
Lisa
I see you are very stuck. Try this theory for size:
“The only reason I like him is because he rejects me”.
Him being an AC is not about you . What IS about you? You picked him. And when he turned out to be, surprise, surprise, an AC you wanted him even more.
I’m the control experiment – I was happier out of a relationship than in one. I preferred long distance relationhips cos I got to spend more time alone. HOWEVER, I still ended up with EUMs/ACs. Why? Because a) I could NOT STAND being rejected but b) I always ended up in rejection-situations because of my compulsion to “win”. Rejection sparked my interest (to say the least). A man just liking me for myself without any drama absolutely did not.
Lisa – the couples you know in healthy happy relationships do not parkate in this nonsense gameplaying (for that is what it is, however, you dress it up). You need to give it up.
Bri
on 22/08/2011 at 1:53 am
Lisa,
I can relate to a lot of what you’re saying. When I look at the guys who have been interested in me in the past two years – while I’ve been in love with the MM – they barely register for me. It’s not even little things I can pick out about their character or looks, I just don’t feel it…so I get it.
But I also know that we have to give ourselves some breathing room – we are both clearly knee deep in feelings for someone else (both of whom don’t treat us the way we should be treated, nor do we get anything close to what we need from them), so we’re not open to falling for someone else. It’s not fair to the other guys out there or to ourselves to expect to have feelings for someone else when our hearts are elsewhere. That space is currently filled, and that’s okay, but we have to recognize what that means for the meantime.
Like you, I’m in withdrawal from my ex…I miss him, I need him to feel complete, and my mind and body are all out of whack without him. I too have the feeling of “if he’d only come back, even if he gave me crumbs again and put me through the same anxiety and tears and longing as before, at least I’d have him more than I do now…at least it’s better than nothing.” And right now, that might be true…but if we can move past these toxic relationships and can let go of these feelings, we will be open to someone else who can fulfill us completely. We obviously haven’t met that person yet, but I can’t give up hope that one day I’ll be sitting in a coffee shop, maybe even reading this site, and a man will sit down beside me and I’ll get butterflies, just like I did with the MM.
But I know that I have to give myself this grieving time and let myself cry and miss him and maybe even relapse on NC. One of my favorite sayings is, “You haven’t had enough until you’ve had enough…and if you’re still there, you haven’t had enough.” If you’re not there yet, it’s okay – there’s no set timeline, and we learn through our own pain. Just know that you’re not alone, as I’m in the same place as you…even though I know it’s not healthy, I want him back more than I’ve ever wanted anything in my life. I hope we can both move past this place, and one day look back on these posts and reflect on how far we’ve come.
Natasha
on 22/08/2011 at 6:31 am
“But I know that I have to give myself this grieving time and let myself cry and miss him and maybe even relapse on NC.”
Bri, I absolutely agree about giving yourself the time and space to heal and grieve the end of the relationship. I would, however, be really careful about giving yourself “permission” to relapse on NC. I read in Mr. Unavailable and The Fallback Girl (if you don’t have it, get it – it’s really and truly amazing) that part of what keeps Fallback Girls in Fallback Mode is “rendering ourselves hopeless”., i.e. “I’m not entirely sure I’ll be able to stay NC, so I’m going to expect to perhaps relapse.” I think it would be much better for you to say, “Even though NC won’t be easy, I KNOW I have it in me to make better choices! Plus, this jackass just isn’t special enough for me to waste my precious time speaking to.” Give yourself more credit – I know you are hurting now, but I also think you’re a very intelligent lady who obviously has a lot going for her. I know how hard it is, as I was in a 5 year boomerang debacle with an unmarried, but awful AC. Talk yourself up and believe that you can do it!! *Hugs*
Lisa
on 23/08/2011 at 4:08 am
Thanks Bri. I know what you mean about feeling like you might need to hit “rock bottom” before you can really walk away but I also hear what Natasha is saying about giving yourself permission on some level by expecting to relapse in order to feel fed up. I keep telling myself “I guess I haven’t had enough yet” and my therapist once told me that I am letting myself off the hook by saying this. But I guess all the wisdom and advice in the world won’t help if you are not commited to yourself and making changes. For me, it’s the avoidance of the short term (which I don’t feel will be that short) pain vs. the potential long term gain (which I don’t think I have totally bought into). For me, I believe that there have been times over the last three years where I have been in different head spaces and would have loved to have met someone else and felt open to it, it just didn’t happen. The withdrawal is hard…I am finding the silence unbearable at times. I am fighting the frequent urge to reach out to him AGAIN to plead with him and attempt to appeal to that part of him that is humane to acknowledge my existence (I just can’t accept that anyone could be that heartless so there must be a way I can get through to him). I also see that I am unable/unwilling to accept that despite what the facts say, that he did not care about me at all. I keep thinking indignantly, “how could you just walk away and pretend I am dead after 3 years? You are finished with me/onto someone else so now you just leave with no word, goodbye, explanation and you ignore my attempts to contact?” I am begging someone to care about me…that’s where I have gotten to. What would hitting bottom be if this isn’t it? Scary question.
Lisa
on 23/08/2011 at 4:30 am
Just another thought about the origins of these hurtful attachments. As I was thinking about pleading with HIM to acknowledge me and wondering and feeling this agonizing feeling attached to the question of “how could you have spent all this time with me, slept with me, eaten with me, cried with me etc. and not care enough to just say that you are moving on or not care about me period?” It made me think of how ineffectual I felt with my mother. I remember feeling like I couldn’t get her to react to me the way I wanted and/or needed her to. It made me feel hard to love and easy to dismiss. It feels similar to my current situation…a little girl saying, “why don’t you love me”? “why can’t I get through to you. you are my mom, I am supposed to be able to melt your heart” but I never could. I am just connecting this now…the memory of my mom being mad at me when I was young and me putting on my red fuzzy bathrobe and grabbing my teddy bear and walking in front of her in hopes my looking cute would make her not be mad at me anymore. But she looked up for a minute and then looked down at her paper again. It’s like the weight loss and the new pants and the hair extensions…maybe he’ll love me now. Intellectually, I know I can’t heal it through any man let alone this unlikely source and I am playing out this drama but emotionally I feel this compulsion to continue.
grace
on 23/08/2011 at 10:25 am
Lisa, Bri
I don’t think you should allow yourself to hit rock bottom. Rock bottom is where Amy Winehouse and Marilyn Monroe ended up.
While i understand that breakup hurts, don’t completely give into it. You can feel the pain and mourn the loss without throwing yourself off a cliff (figuratively or metaphorically). It’s a break up. Millions have gone through it, are going through it and will go through it and move one. No-one’s died.
There is a certain attraction to feeling a lot of pain, and feeling more pain than other people (“I’m so sensitive!) but you can be a sensitive, empathetic, sympathetic, caring person without having to drag yourself through the gutter of self-loathing and despair.
Bri
on 23/08/2011 at 8:07 pm
Lisa,
I’m in the same spot. I fight the incredible urge every day to try and somehow get him back. And I too feel like it’s only been 12 days since my breakup with the MM but that’s already longer than I ever wanted to feel this way. What does “short-term” even mean? How do I know that going through this pain now will benefit me in the future? How can something good come from feeling this badly?
The silence is the hardest part; not only does not talking to the person I love, the person I talked to almost every day for two years, make me feel like my whole world has shifted and I miss him so much, but it also makes me feel like he’s okay without me after he told me he’d never be happy again because I was the only person to ever bring him joy.
You are not alone, I know how you feel and it’s awful – I hope for both of us we can get out of this space and one day, if and when they come back, we can tell them to get lost.
AdrienneBytheSea
on 22/08/2011 at 11:00 am
Lisa, that book by Howard Halpern is excellent. It cracked my head open (figuratively speaking), but I finally didn’t *get it* about myself until yesterday when I read Pia Mellody’s “Facing Co-dependence.” I have read Melody Beattie’s books on Co-dependence and they are good, but Pia Mellody’s reaches right into the heart of it for me. Might be of some interest to you, as well. Feeling unworthy (low self-esteem), little or no boundaries, not owning reality, not knowing or being able to distinguish between needs and wants, and the extremes of emotion are the core aspects Pia writes about (as does NML, brilliantly!). I now see how these core aspects have resulted in a rejection of myself. Pia writes a lot about the childhood origins of these core aspects and it can be an overwhelming read, but I found it very apt, and it made the ideas in Halpern’s book make more sense at a gut level. Good luck to you.
Lisa
on 23/08/2011 at 4:13 am
Thank you Adrienne. I will check it out.
Lisa
on 23/08/2011 at 1:35 pm
Anoosh,
I agree that there should be some caution about over pathologizing our relationship issues and falling into a victim or hopeless/helpless role (all things that I can do rather than take action). I did just want to say that the Halpern book I talk about does not take anyone off the hook from taking action in their life but seeks to explain why the attraction is there and why it hurts so much but he says, that once you realize what it is and why it’s there you can coach yourself to move away from it.
Lisa
on 23/08/2011 at 10:48 pm
Hi Bri,
When I read what you wrote, I have had a lot of the same feelings and thoughts and I remember people saying things like “it’s always the darkest before dawn”. Someone also described the loss of love as a “dark night of the soul”. These things change us and if we do the work, likely for the better. I know it barely puts a dent in the agony and it does feel like agony. Some people talk about taking it one day at a time or even one moment at a time. When you feel really alone or scared or isolated from the pain, it can sometimes be helpful to draw strength from the idea that there are others (like me) who get it and are somewhere else in the world trying to get through their day. I thought of you today and I knew that I wasn’t alone in this pain. I know, it sucks but hopefully this will be of some comfort.
anoosh
on 25/08/2011 at 9:30 am
Hi Lisa — I’m familiar w/the HH book, in fact my copy of it is from the 80’s, I believe! I think someone passed it on to me in the mid 90’s, during a painful breakup within the most serious relationship I’ve ever had in my life. also, someone recently gave me the Pia Mellody one called Facing Love Addiction. there are absolutely worthwhile concepts in both, and have given lots of food for thought. in the latter, there is a description of the dynamic between the Love Addict/”Love Avoidant” that rang alotta bells for me. whatever helps people to unhook themselves from unhealthy relationships and create new patterns, I’m happy for those things. however, I can only speak for myself, dating seriously for 25+ years (!), and none of the self-help books ever gave the kind of breakthroughs I’ve been experiencing on Baggage Reclaim the past 4 months. I think Natalie has struck something like gold, and I’m finding each week that goes by I’m *getting it* more & more. I don’t think I will ever be able to delude myself ever again about any man — or friendship for that matter, a number of which are under my review at the moment. 🙂
Layla
on 20/08/2011 at 6:30 pm
I’m grieving the end of a 7-8 year affair . I haven’t seem him for a year and we kept in touch up until a month ago by phone and texts (mainly). I’m finding it hard to move on.
The thing that’s confusing me is I was married twice and both husbands left me for their ‘mistresses’. My first husband left after a 3 year marriage for a female at his work. They were together for 15 years and had a child. My second husband left me and my 7 year old daughter after 9 years of being together- it turned out she had even a 5 year old child to him. Sixteen years later and they’re still together. I was devastated after both divorces But ,when I looked around some of my friends also experienced being left for other women -the divorce courts are full of cases of adultery and people meeting someone else thed prefer to be with. So I suppose what I’m saying is it isn’t always black and white that men/women wont leave who they are with if they meet someone they fall more in love with. According to the comments here Ive been ‘shafted’ and I’m ‘selfish’. However I had some of my happiest times with my MM. His children from his first wife were grown up so that wasn’t exactly an issue. I never thought I would have an affair and be a ‘mistress’ and I regret very much that his wife was hurt. Yet I don’t totally regret falling in love with him .
It just seems like you really cant have total guarantees – life can be messy-and you cant be complacent even if your’e married and have a child. Your’e boundaries and values can…
grace
on 20/08/2011 at 7:48 pm
Layla
I hear what you’re saying and yes life can be messy and sometimes he will leave his wife. But in my experience (yes a man did leave his wife for me unfortunately) it happens quickly, I would say within three to six months. Seven to eight years is out of the ballpark. In Bri’s case – two years is entirely too much, especially for a young woman. Time just passes slower when you’re young.
Reading your comment, what strikes me isn’t “Cool, men do leave their wives for other women” but “Poor Layla, two duds and now a third dud”. It’s not your fault that these men have proven to be unreliable but the way out of your predicament isn’t to throw your lot in with dubious beliefs but to understand that the best chance two people have is when they are both single and looking for a proper relationship. It’s taken me a long time to get that but finally I have.
If you remain in contact with this man you won’t get over him. And it’s best if you don’t know what happens after the breakup. If you can avoid it, it’s best not to know if he got married had kids etc. Luckily for me, I’ve moved around a lot and have no kids with the exes so I’ve no clue what happened to them and they don’t know what happened to me. It’s better that way.
And you’ve no way of knowing (I hope!) how good, bad or indifferent your exes’ marriages turned out. Though we know one got divorced. So it’s not great odds.
Layla
on 20/08/2011 at 9:49 pm
Thanks Grace, I really appreciate your’e comment. I realize now i’d ‘thrown my lot in with dubious values’.Practically all my life. This post and especially the comments really woke me up. I think I’m finally getting it ! I plan to be a lot wiser about choices and being aware of and standing by my boundaries in the future, (better late than never)
Fearless
on 20/08/2011 at 9:35 pm
I agree completely with Grace on this; if he’s going to leave he’s going to do it fast, not malinger around for years saying he’ll leave and not doing it. The guy who’s going to leave is the one who decides pretty quickly that this is what he’s doing and he actually does it – soon. These are the exceptions but men don’t often have affairs cos they want to end their marriage but cos they want to have an affair. That’s my view. I’m sorry Layla if my ‘OW/selfish’ comment seemed harsh… we all have different experiences of similar situations – but after my thing with an MM I felt, eventually, that I’d been v selfish and I was ashamed of myself. I don’t speak for everyone. All the best to you.
Anyway… am sorry Nat, this is not really on topic.
Michelle
on 20/08/2011 at 9:57 pm
Bri
I’m new to this site but have been reading every post after my recent break up/NC with MM. I just saw my therapist and she said somehting that I haven’t read on this site yet. She said MM was Emotionally Dangerous. I described everything and the parking lot incident and she pointed out that my interaction s with him send me into a tailspin and I am unable to function. It is in fact putting yourself in emotional danger to have contact because you are unable to heal and risk repeating the cycle. Evene if some men do leave for the OW, the OW still always has a little bit (or a lot) of doubt about whwther she will be left. You only see surface things, like number of years married, and not whether they have been happy and fulfilling years. Your best chance for a long-lasting, happy relationship is with someone who is not attached when you begin the relationship.
Fearless
on 21/08/2011 at 3:51 pm
I am beginning to see my ex Mr EUM as *emotionally dangerous*. He would be appalled if I told him that! I am appalled to think that it has some truth in it. Are they really emotionally dangerous or is it that we are just emotionally pathetic?!! I don’t know the answer
izzybell
on 21/08/2011 at 5:04 pm
hopefully not emotionally pathetic, but perhaps emotionally vulnerable. these men wouldn’t be good for even the most resilient, confident women but they wouldn’t be dangerous because these women wouldn’t give them the time of day!
Lisa
on 22/08/2011 at 1:43 am
I agree. I think that they are emotionally dangerous to us because we are vulnerable to them for whatever reason. I told my therapist that he was like cocaine to me and she said, “at this point, I think you’d be better off doing coke”. This is how poisonous she feels he is to me.
Bri
on 21/08/2011 at 3:51 pm
Michelle,
So true. Even when I told my MM, also in a parking lot (I mean seriously, how similar can these situations gets?!) that I hoped he’d come back one day, he told me that if he was ready to do so, he’d find me no matter what. Did that make me feel better? No, it actually made me feel rejected all over again because it wasn’t the answer I wanted. Like you, I went into a tailspin and cried for hours.
My therapist has told me the same thing – that maybe the OW situation works for some people, but it’s clear that I’m not one of those people. Due to my past, and past “rejections” by numerous people, I need someone I can trust 100%, who makes me their #1 priority and that will never be him. It’s hard separating your head from your heart when you’re in pain, though…
Michelle
on 21/08/2011 at 8:57 pm
Bri
Yes, I am growing to hate that parking lot, LOL. I wish he would get a new car already so that I wouldn’t be able to tell when he’s around!
izzybell is right, I (and you also right now it seems) are emotionally vulnerable and so these men, in our situations, at this time in our lives are dangerous. When we grow more confident we will be not be affected so deeply by the MMs actions. You need to fight, really fight, for yourself and your life. Read BR whenever you think of him (it’s really helping me) and be true to yourself–you KNOW deep in your heart that you want and deserve a relationship where you are the only one.
Fedup
on 21/08/2011 at 3:22 am
Grace- You asked me why did I pick them. Probably because I wanted to get away from my over controlling, verbally abusive father. I’m 24 you would think that my parents would want an empty nest, but all I get is screaming and verbal abuse from them. The Only reason I haven’t left is money. And I wanted to go back to school.
Tulipa
on 21/08/2011 at 7:40 am
Unfortunately, if you have found yourself in unavailable relationships, especially as a Fallback Girl (or guy), you have some major issues with rejection, either taking it too hard and being derailed by it, or busting a gut to ensure that you don’t experience it, even though you actually are.
I was derailed and took it very hard when my dad rejected me and I think this has kept me busting a gut with guys so I never want to feel those feelings again.
Denial plays a large part in this too because as you state when you are busting a gut to ensure you don’t experience rejection you already are but I have refused to see and feel and carried on flogging the dead horse.
I do know that not all rejection is personal and stopped taking things to the nth degree a long time ago except with romantic relationships these are my undoing, and why I make a willing fallback girl no matter what the guy has done I return.
This is why I have to start to love myself and pick myself up and carry on because there is nothing fundamentally wrong with me because people choose to end things with me just as there was nothing wrong with me when my dad made his decsion to live his life without me in it.
Fedup
on 21/08/2011 at 2:05 pm
I remember someone said that they wanted to breakup with their parents. I would love to to this. Natalie what do you do when your own parents tell you need a man just to do anythIng?
Fearless
on 21/08/2011 at 3:44 pm
Fed-up,
what you do is you don’t believe them! Cos it’s not true! You’re an autonomous adult. Remind your parents of that. You need your independence. Move out of their house. Find a way and do it. That’s my view for what it’s worth!
Sam
on 21/08/2011 at 2:19 pm
I could not have found this website at a better time. This article gave me a wake up call. I ended a one year LDR with someone who did not care about me as much as I thought he did. He used me. I don’t miss him, I don’t want to be with him, and I would be okay not talking to him even though he said we were on a break and wanted to be friends. I was upset and still am. Fast forward to last week: met a great guy, we were kissing and I told him that I was not sure if I was ready to date, he took this as rejection. I sent him a FB message telling him that I liked him and that I did not want to waste time and asked him out on a date. He rejected me. I was upset but understood why he turned me down. We agreed to be friends, but it was definitely an eye-opener.
My anger at my ex was preventing me from having fulfilling relationships and has kept me from moving on. It took rejection to make me see this and realizing that I screwed up badly, and now I feel like I can actually make progress in terms of getting over my ex and hopefully it will lead to more fulfilling relationships. There is always a silver lining and rejection can be a good thing.
Michelle
on 21/08/2011 at 3:13 pm
Here is something that someone has said to me that is helping me reframe my thinking on rejection. We often have very severe pain around rejection because we have years of hurt from previous rejections that have piled up. So when we perceive someone is rejecting us we feel incredible pain that is not just the pain of the particular event, but pain from many years. But changing our inner dialogue can help. Instead of saying, “they are rejecting me, so something must be wrong with me, I am no good, etc.” and therefore going into a mode of self-blame, ask a question instead: “What did they do that was inappropriate?” I’ve applied this to a few events in my life and it has brought great understanding. As a teenager in school, being teased about your looks becomes a question, “What did they do that was inappropriate?” and an answer “they are rude.” On the topic here of EUs and AC, ask yourself, what did he or she do that was inappropriate? Try not to go into automatic thought patterns of self-blame and self-rejection. What they did or said does not translate into there being something wrong with you.
wicked74
on 22/08/2011 at 1:22 am
@Michelle – 37 years and a pretty good brain and I have never thought of it in quite that way. Why have I always assumed others knew better than me what my worth or value was? Wow. Thank you!
Fearless
on 21/08/2011 at 3:33 pm
With Mr EU was definitely trying to avoid rejection, I was Nat:
“busting a gut to ensure that you don’t experience it, even though you actually are.”
The one thing I experienced with him more than anything else was *rejection*; it was like living a broken heart. So I can see that while I was trying to avoid rejection I WAS actually being rejected -constantly, so I wasn’t avoiding it, not one little bit. All of this was not entirely lost on me at the time: I would say to him (probably by email or text!), more than once, ‘you’ve been rejecting me every day of my life, for years’. Of course for some reason, I thought, or hoped, that if I could make him undersand how he made me feel that he would stop doing it and do something else instead! Pigs might fly, but they don’t.
So what I was actually doing was this:
“repeatedly throwing myself under the same rejection bus because I didn’t want to deal with the pain of accepting his choice or his treatment of me”.
Of course, He did not want to make a choice – part of my problem was thinking that so long as he didn’t made a choice to commit or not to commit, then he might still choose to commit! There was always the possibility (in my mind) that he had still to choose one or the other and get off the fence – no choices were ver made. I don’t have a huge problem, I don’t think, in accepting someone’s CHOICE, so long as that choice is made and made clear and is consistent. What I have is trouuble when he WON’T choose because (in my mixed up head) that still leaves all possibilities open.
The EUM has still not “ended” it. If I wanted to press re-set, I could be pressing it. I have ended it, in so far as I am not engaging with him. It’s weird – nothing has been said by either of us about “ending” anything, which makes me think that from his point of view there must have been nothing to end! What kind of ending is that – one minute your speaking the next minute you’re not and when enough time passes we can both tacitly understand that it’s over?? That’s be the end then! WTF is that all about! But I know the important thing anyway is that it is over for me, however it comes about. This post makes me understand why I didn’t fold. Rejecction avoidance. Pah! When I was actually fired more times than a circus cannon!
Fearless
on 21/08/2011 at 6:53 pm
And now having read NML’s reply to Lisa, I am reminded that of course my Mr EUM didn’t *choose* – he didn’t have to choose. He was having me anyway! So I could hardly feel rejected by his “choice” when he was never pressed to make one. So I felt repeatedly rejected by his treatment of me instead and of his failure to choose me even though he didn’t have to choose – and he was choosing me actually, just on his terms, which felt like rejection cos I new the terms were a bad deal fo me. The whole thing with these “relationships” is just a big can of misery-making worms – it’s horrendous. No wonder it’s such a painfully hard task to unravel ourselves from it all.
Lila
on 21/08/2011 at 9:00 pm
“So I felt repeatedly rejected by his treatment of me instead and of his failure to choose me even though he didn’t have to choose – and he was choosing me actually, just on his terms, which felt like rejection cos I new the terms were a bad deal for me.”
Thank you Fearless, for that. This sentence perfectly describes the scenario I am fighting my way out of…I need a good dose of this truth serum daily!!
Another thought I read on a friend’s status update today really resonated: “Adversity gives birth to Fear or Courage. Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the overcoming of fear.” So I take that as, when I am met with rejection, or resistance, I won’t make choices out of fear (of avoiding pain or facing the truth), but face everything and pass through it with a clear head and heart…which also means having the courage to be alone instead of attending to any fool who comes along and says one half-ass nice word.
Fearless
on 21/08/2011 at 9:38 pm
Yes, Lila,
I think our choices were borne out of fear – avoidance of facing the fear of rejection, which we were experiencing anyway! That’s the irony. We have to dump the fear and embrace the courage. I believe that it’ the fear of something unpleasant happening that keeps us stuck and avoiding it. Once the thing has happened it’s like, bingo! I don’t need to fear this any more because it’s happened, so now I can just get on with it – minus the fear! I think that’s why some people say things like ‘when he finally walked out for good, the thing that I’d feared for so long, it actually came as a blessed relief!’ I still some days feel so free! Because the fear of losing the EUM for good has gone. Cos he’s gone.
Lisa
on 22/08/2011 at 2:02 am
Fired more times than a circus canon…awesome! I get the pervasive hope that he will choose you one day Fearless. I swear, I would buy a new pair of pants that looked good on me and thought to myself, “maybe if he see’s me in these pants he’ll love me”. Oy. I know undying hope is generally a good thing but in these cases, it really should die a violent and expedient death.
Fearless
on 22/08/2011 at 9:54 am
Lisa,
yep, I get the ‘pants’ thing.I did similar, he paid attention – until he’d had the sex then the ‘pants’ didn’t matter anymore! And I had to think of better ‘pants’!! Lol. I kinda stopped thinking that anything like that would make a difference a long time ago!
This is interesting:
“I get the pervasive hope that he will choose you one day Fearless.”
Natalie too warned me that I must draw an EMPHATIC line under the ex Mr EUM relationship. All I can say is that getting beyond the “pervasive hope” is what trying to free yourself from these relationships is about much of the time (for me anyway). It’s all tied in with the working on myself, avoiding the “rejection” feelings, raising my self esteem, maintaining my boundaries and quashing the drive for validation (from him). I understand totally the emphatic line / ditch all “hope” thing – but if I could have done that easily in a few minutes flat, it woud have been done years ago. I get that drawing an emphatic line in your mind helps you to get closure and move forward and I have, as much as I know how, drawn that line in my mind… sometimes the line goes squiggly! And then I try to straighten it out again. And I do.
I now know that I do not want to go back to that place with the EUM or with anyone else, EVER, but some of the emotions about it still find their way to the surface and are still hard to deal with, and yes, probably the hope-habit is a hard one to break; I lived off it for ten years with this guy! The difference now is that I do deal with these emotions. I fight them hard. I don’t go running back to him for more rejection and validation and crap. I stay and I fight. I think, in the main, my head is in reality, and when it slips out of it, I now at least know where reality is and how to get back there! I don’t harbour hope, not consciously anyway.
I don’t think it’s any exaggeration to say that to get yourself back from these painful ‘relationships’ you really do have to fight very hard – for a long time.
I’ve enjoyed your comments Lisa – Good luck.
Lisa
on 23/08/2011 at 4:58 am
You have done some really hard work which is amazing and courageous.
izzybell
on 21/08/2011 at 4:50 pm
This made me think about the relationship between avoiding rejection, and picking men who tell you what you want to hear at the expense of the truth. I think if I were not as sensitive about being “rejected” and all I make it mean about me I would be quicker to read the signs and throw in the towel when things are not working for me, less likely to accept words that aren’t matched by action, and promises not backed up with plans. And, less likely to ruminate about it when the relationship ends.
I say that I prefer people to be direct and authentic even if it hurts me, but in dating my fear of rejection has invisibly sent a different message: “Don’t tell me what’s really going on, I don’t want to hear it, don’t leave, don’t hurt me.” This, paired with dating men who have no insight into themselves and limited courage and integrity, ends up causing me more pain and wasting more time than just accepting that it’s not working out. No matter how much I complain about my ex’s future faking I now realize that I was complicit by choosing the fantasy of our potential future over clearly seeing and acting on the here-and-now reality that made me feel uneasy and was built on a less-than-healthy dynamic.
Being afraid of being “rejectionable” has fueled my choice in EUM’s– men who are out of touch with themselves and self-centered, willing to say anything they need to to get what they want, and incapable (or unwilling) of being consistent, clear and up front about their true capacity for or interest in a long term committed relationship with me. It almost makes me laugh to see how I pick these men, inevitably reject them, and then suffer horribly!
ImFree
on 21/08/2011 at 7:36 pm
Thank you for this article. I had never really looked at the rejection issue as a reason why i would continue to put myself out there (i.e. in a situation that had *no go* all over it from the outset). It has helped me realise that I am trying to chase a feeling to stop me actually accepting the hurt that it is over. Throw in a few other things (low self esteem, bad experiences with men, absent dad etc) and you have me going back and forth like a boomerang muttering – I *will* make it work (repeat x infinite). Somewhere along the line I picked up the idea that I have to do all the running in a relationship and the other person just has to show up. Sometimes. Dangerous thinking.
I was in a situation very recently and my friend (happily married, never had any problems with men) listened very carefully to a long drawn out story and just summed it up with “you need to listen to what he is saying, he is saying – it is not going to happen for various reasons” and that I needed to focus on the “its not going to happen part” and not the rest of the conversation. In the past I would have spent energy thinking about his motivations, what if x, what if y, why, why why. If I did x or y then maybe it will be different. Or basically hear the bit that I am liked and ignore the more painful, its not gonna work.
What amazes me is that some people can do this almost automatically – it’s like the self preservation part of me just hasn’t developed/doesn’t exist. Well, I am going to try really hard to take the advice and emotionally opt out of something that doesn’t exist. (or rather only exists for me)…..
Eternal Summer
on 22/08/2011 at 1:56 am
Well, I finally “rejected” my OM….made it short & sweet after I realized I didn’t want to “compartmentalize” within relationships anymore. I want to be “all in” or “all out”. I know it’s the right thing to do for me, but, of course, I’m bummed that he hasn’t responded since i did it a few days ago…Now “I” feel rejected!!! I know it’s reality setting in after ripping off the bandaid. I know that it’s best since he’s not that into me anyway & continuing it would drive me batty, but it still feels like crap. I’m going to just keep reminding myself that it is best to NOT be in any relationship that you can’t be fully self expressed for a myriad of reasons. I don’t want to live & love like that. Just miss the “crummy crumbs” like everyone else. Did I just say I miss “crummy crumbs”???!!!! Hahaha!
Eternal Summer
on 22/08/2011 at 2:06 am
PS it has taken me close to 3 years to “reject” this relationship. I wanted to say, I am not rejecting him, I am rejecting the relationship as it does not make me happy. I don’t think I would have had the clarity to distinguish that if it weren’t for Natalie & her literature. If you are stuck & really need help, I recommend all of Natalie’s books. They have seen me through some dark days indeed…
Michelle
on 23/08/2011 at 5:00 am
@Eternal Summer
There’s no way to know how he’s feeling but speaking as a twice OW, I was heartbroken when I was broken up with but never showed it and didn’t initiate contact out of pride and also genuinely wanting him to be happy, and if happy was with his wife then so be it. The best thing you can do for him, if you care at all, is to continue NC. If he’s married then it will force him to look deeply at his marriage and if he’s single he can move on, which is what this blog is all about.
Spinster
on 22/08/2011 at 10:42 am
Just read this entry twice (may have to read it again at least once more). Thinking about abandonment & rejection as 2 separate things, hmmmm. Good food for thought.
“I’m pretty sure I used to get abandonment and rejection confused hence why I’d feel so terrible – they’re two different things…..”
Fearless
on 24/08/2011 at 10:41 pm
I’ve just read this entry again too. It is always wise to read Nat’s posts a few times as you see things – or get them – second time round that didn’t quite register first time. For example:
“the overwhelming majority of people I witness struggling with ‘rejection’, are struggling with feeling that they weren’t up to ‘standard’ for someone and a relationship that they shouldn’t have been available for in the first place.” [Etc…]
Yes, Nat. Exactly! I tink most of us on here can admit to this being the case. But we don’t get it at the time. I felt rejected constantly by the EUM…until I finally came to entertain the novel, ground-breaking idea that maybe I shouldn’t be making myself available for this crap, at all! (and of course the thing is I should *never* have been available for it.) You are so right – we choose someone who we can see from very early on is offering us a ‘rejectionable’ situation, we walk right into it and are then surprised when we are and feel rejected! We don’t realise, oddly, just how much we are setting ourselves up for exactly what we imagine we are trying to avoid. Bizarre.
It’s kind of like we are actually driving the metaphorical car – we are behind the wheel but like an idiot we are not following the road signs, we are ignoring them; we are very bad drivers; despite all the signs clearly pointing us in the right, and safe, direction to our deired destination, we head the wrong way up the motorway and wonder why we get dog’s abuse from other drivers and are run off the road or involved in a disasterous head on collision with our inevitable fate. We are like tragic heroines in a Greek play. My fall, my fate with the EUM, just as much as with the MM (all those years ago) was inevitable – and all driven by my own bad judgements. I see that now and it makes it much easier to bear, oddly, to know that I was actually in control – just very badly! And that it wasn’t random; I was not a victim of unrequited love or an EUM; I created the circumstances that set me up for ‘rejection’ and in doing so, it was really me, rejecting me. It is great comfort to me somehow to see that all I really need to do is to take better care of myself, know I am worth taking the right road for – and read the bloody signs! That I can do. I am very hopeful for me. I have learned so much from you Natalie and I thank you very, very much.
SM
on 25/08/2011 at 12:18 am
Fearless…thank you for your post. I’ve seen the signs too and I have chosen to ignore them for whatever reason, sometimes I didnt even know why. But I’ve been pondering this particular blog for the past few days. I’m wondering, how can I make myself have self esteem? I’ve come to the conclusion that I cant. But what I can do is not ignore the ‘signs’, stay true to my boundaries, get out if my gut tells me to, and to take action in going after what I want while continuously pushing back the feeling that I am not worthy or ‘cant’ do it. I’m actually amazed that I’ve gotten as far ahead in life as I have with such low self esteem, that goes for other aspects, not romance. I’m completely over my last eum, I dont have to try to have nc, I realistically dont think very much of him as a person. I dont care who he dates, I know what they are getting. One of my friends who dated a lot of eum/ac is getting married this weekend, she finally found her ‘good’ guy. I’ve been thinking about the guys she dated and I think ‘how dare they not have valued her’. She is a winner by everyones count, and these losers had the nerve not to treat her right. I love this website, it was like a ‘come to Jesus’ moment when I found it.
Fearless
on 25/08/2011 at 10:57 am
SM:
“how can I make myself have self esteem? I’ve come to the conclusion that I cant.”
Oh dear! Start with dumping the “can’t” word! It’s the first sign of the low-self esteem. Never use it again – switch it for “CAN”! or “WILL”!
Self esteem is a self *belief* – not a character trait. You CAN change your beliefs about anything – people do it all the time! So you CAN change your belief about yourself. You are inherently as valuable and worthy a human being as any one of us, you need to teach yourself to believe that. And you CAN 🙂
Lila
on 26/08/2011 at 3:43 am
This week on BR has been tearful and enlightening for me in so many ways. Self-esteem. It is interesting how I have attached my apparent value on outward acheivements, appearance, even the behavior of my children, that somehow in the year that have passed (most of my life), I missed the central meaning of the concept–which is believing that I can DRIVE my own life. The contributing factors are multiple and tangled at this juncture in my life, but I have to attribute a major factor to my parents and upbringing. As a parent this idea is particularly disturbing to me, as I think “what am I going to do to eff up my girls?” My parents, while well intentioned and wonderful people, where also legalistic and managed to communicate to me in their style of parenting that my feelings weren’t as important as their ideals, and the family unit as a whole. While I think ideals and family untiy are important, their unintentional overkill led me, as an extraordinarily sensitive child, to feel firstly that I shouldn’t have REAL needs in a relationship, and secondly that any feelings/needs I had were low on the list of priorites. So, I chose as a partner for a husband (and dated countless others) someone who wouldn’t acknowledge my needs as legitimate and would expect me to subjugate my desires/needs to his own. This felt normal to me, but I always languished, just like I did as a child, waiting for someone to notice that I was emotionally starving. And because I didn’t ask for what I needed initially, it felt normal for me to let someone else “drive” my life and relationships, because I didn’t know how to do it or feel comfortable in even defining a locus of control. Now I realize that while I should grieve this loss I experienced as a child, it is important to recognize and change the pattern. Wow…and I CAN do it.
Seren
on 05/09/2011 at 1:12 am
This post was right on the mark. I’m realising my own immaturity, playing the ‘victim of rejection’ role, instead of facing up to the fact that I rejected myself and let myself down in not asserting my boundaries and letting some narcissistic weirdo push my buttons to feed his ego, and not taking care of myself; and that’s something that I alone am responsible for, which is actually great.
The hard part is forgiving myself for making a mistake, and not falling into the trap of using the fact that it was a mistake as an excuse to confirm inner shitness, but seeing it as a golden first hand lesson in red flag readership and an experience that helped me develop an intolerance to knobbery. God, daddy issues are so bloody annoying though.
Good luck to everyone
Irishgirl3
on 05/09/2011 at 6:44 pm
I’m feeling very rejected and hurt by what I’ve learned through this site is an EUM & bonafide Assclown. I married my highschool sweetheart after dating for over 10 years, and after 10 years of marriage and 2 kids, divorced him due to mental abuse and the fact he was literally turning into a crazy person. (putting spyware on my laptop, tape recorders in my car and house, even parking up the street and hiding in the shower or my son’s closet). I spent a year recoverying from my guilt of the divorce, and trying to earn back my self esteem. Because this guy was my HIGHSCHOOL sweetheart, I hadn’t dated many guys at all, and now, turning 40 later this year, felt clueless about the dating scene. The 1st guy I dated went on for almost 8 months (we didn’t see each other much) and he would never touch me so I told him we just needed to remain on the friend front. The 2nd was a guy I graduated HS with, and out of the blue invited me on a trip he won through work to Cabo San Lucas Mexico! It was our “first date” and I did go and had fun, even though didn’t think he was much my type. After trying to date him for a few months, I found out he had a girlfriend LIVING with him the entire time! Then, this past July I met the assclown. We met on a dating site and things went FAST! There was nothing about him I didn’t like! Great looking, a dad, great job, very polite, made lots of efforts to call, text, see me, come over….Now I know he was a fast forwarder, and I tried to keep a wall up to some degree but had NEVER felt so intensely about ANYONE that quickly, so after having goosebumps everyday by his comments & him telling me he loved me, I gave my heart up completely. It all came to screeching hault 2 fridays ago when a friend of mine followed me and drove 40 min. to “his” town to hang at “his” places, when within the hour, he started an arguement w/ her and before I knew it, told me to get her & leave! I didn’t understand what was even happening, but I left, and he came outside and yelled at me again! His friend drove my car to his apartment, as I was so upset I threw up. I ended up crashing into a tree, causing over $3000 damage to my car (luckily not hurt), AND got stopped at a sobreity check, although I passed the test! I sent him a text picture of my car and told him what happened, only to get his response of “don’t blame me for…
Brenda
on 26/09/2011 at 3:01 am
Hi out there!A girlfreind told me about this site and I think its amazing!
I am having a hard time right now as the Guy I was in a relationship for 5 months did the disapperaing act on me..No call,nothing…I of course called,begged for an answer,closure,,,all to no avial..I am trying to get the strength to find the closure for myself,but its so hard…Why do guys do this?Did I mention,there was no fight before,no other woman,I was so blindsided….
grace
on 26/09/2011 at 11:39 am
brenda
I think you have to close it yourself.
Friend of a friend made plans with her boyfriend to rent a house so they could live together. They moved in. Then he tells her he doesn’t love her. He dumps her. She has to move out. Now she wants closure as it was all out of the blue. I’m thinking surely he’s made it plain that he a) hes an ass and b) he wants out. What else is there to know. Does it really help to be told that he doesn’t fancy you/hates your snoring/ doesn’t see you as the mother of his children/ is bored/ can’t be bothered/ needs to shag around.
Disappearing falls into that category. He wants out. Let him go. The few women here who HAVE hunted the man down for an explanation always end up with a half-assed excuse which leaves them wanting yet more closure. Or worse, they end up being insulted or as a booty call.
You always have to close it yourself. He’s got nothing to do with that. Even if he did grace you with a perfectly worded honest and truthful explanation, it’s only over when YOU accept YOURSELF that it’s over. The words that come out of his mouth are not that useful. Half the time we’re barely listening anyway (even though we pride ourselves on our communication skills).
I’ve been running Baggage Reclaim since September 2005, and I’ve spent many thousands of hours writing this labour of love. The site has been ad-free the entire time, and it costs hundreds of pounds a month to run it on my own. If what I share here has helped you and you’re in a position to do so, I would love if you could make a donation. Your support is so very much appreciated! Thank you.
Copyright Natalie Lue 2005-2024, All rights reserved. Written and express permission along with credit is needed to reproduce and distribute excerpts or entire pieces of my work.
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This is great! I went into a tail spin because I was dumped by a guy who turned out to be a narcisstic online porn addict. My monkey brain told me if he did not want me… who would? Duh!!!!! It was not supposed to happen! This guy was also a hypchondriac. He married a doctor who now lives with a high maintenace patient (who also cheats) AND I am free as a BIRD!!!!! Hurray!!!!!!!!
I cried my eyes out for weeks over my ex, who had a pretty decent record of cheating throughout his life, and a coke habit, ( you can see were this going) who, when he went into re-hab, guess what..yeah he cheated with some messed up bint…and I was suprised. LOL any way I took him back and two years of sobriety what did I discover…Im not even gonna write it…I was devastated…In honesty I would have rather he relapsed (there goes the unconditional love I was supposed to have) because I could’nt take the rejection. The conclusion that I come today is quite sobering really in that, It was’nt the drink or drugs he IS a complete tosser. Let this also be a warning to all the Renovators and Florence Nightingales…what you see is what you get, even with a 12 step programme in tow. What a total whack job Ive been.
Nicola, you’re not alone! One of my friends, who is now happily married, was in a similar situation involving a jackass with a perma-sniffle. Her rationale for him cheating was that people do things when they are cracked-out that they wouldn’t normally do. Fine, but some people are so self destructive and messed up that there is no loving them out of it. Just like in your situation, hers got sober and he still did everything in his power to make their relationship a hot mess. You haven’t been a whack job at all! Sometimes this is how we learn.
No really, putting up with this crap, makes me a whack job. LOL LOL Hey Ho. Rejections tough though. But It does get easier because in the end you start to do the rejecting. Like when you see smoke!
Girl, if that makes you a whack job…then I’m one too! Seriously, my ex was in his early 30’s and would have status messages up on Fbook at 9am saying he was “still partying”. Now I didn’t know or care to ask if that meant, “hoovering up massive mountains of cocaine, that’s why I’m still up from the night before, y’all!”, but obviously it’s not good and I knew he drank like a fish. I didn’t ask any questions (dumbass move, he was yapping about his drinking constantly – however, Florence-ing has never been one of my many jacked-up relationship moves), but I figured if he was addicted to something it would reveal itself (err, hello? something was revealing itself all over my Fbook newsfeed) and it wasn’t my problem to fix (the one rational statement in that sentence, FYI). Leave these guys to their self-destructive mess, you have better things to do and WAY better men to meet 🙂
You haven’t been a whack job Nicola as the others have said but you have been too hopeful, trusting, and blind. You couldn’t save this man from Jesse Jaming you – hang up the nurses uniform, find healthier purposes, and heed the lessons learned. I say this to every Florence and Renovator – if you have that great a need to be needed, to fix/heal/help, do charity work. There are so many wonderful causes, children without homes, animals waiting to be taken of that are a more appropriate use for your energy. All women do that love men with addictions and lying habits, is provide an obstacle to consequences and growth. His life is his to fuck up or fix – you don’t need to be in it.
Thankyou NML. I know what your saying about the obsticales to consequences. But when your in it up to your neck the hardest thing is to let go. Its so painful to realise that again Im unlovable, and no thats not the reason, he was a walking talking snorting AC well before I came along. The thing is that he is swanning around our very small town out on dates with other women, wooing them with his sobriety and that he is a changed man now looking for The One…Im like SAY WHAT! Its just an awful place to be and Im holed up here because my life has shrunk to nothing whilst he syphoned off all the love, laughter and spirit, that he so loved when we first met. These relationships are so bloody painful. Im not going back though not ever again. I want to walk in the Sun, alone. That means for me no dating for along time. Why because if Im honest thats what Ive always wanted, but never given it to me.
Don’t be so hard on yourself, Nicola. Just know you are wiser now and will handle the situation more swiftly the next time. Seriously, be kind to yourself. It’s one of the most important things, I think.
Valley Forge Lady – After blinking a few times at your description of him, I think it’s safe to say you’ve had a lucky escape!
One thing I’ve noticed is that people that deal with rejection tend to place a lot of importance on other’s opinions (what fancy-pants psychologists call an “external locus of control”).
As a result, they really let other people’s opinions or rejections of them get the best of them.
But who really gets to decide how you feel and how you react to other people’s actions? Ultimately, you, yourself are responsible for how you feel.
No one can reject you unless you’ve first surrendered your own power to someone else and given them the authority to “reject” you.
Clay, I agree – only I’d call it ‘over-investing’ or ‘investing too early’.
When you’ve put all your eggs in one bastard (as Dorothy Parker said), then you’re much more likely to take perceived ‘rejections’ very hard.
Solution? Don’t invest. I have had some guys drifting in and out of my radar recently, and I haven’t invested in any of them, so guess what? When they drift out, no hard feelings – in fact, no feelings at all.
Anyone else here heard the saying ‘Rejection is God’s protection’? I come back to that one from time to time when I think about some of the awful men I chose to go out with/be strung along by! Boy was I lucky to escape.
In fact – drumroll please – I have had some unsolicited VALIDATION recently! A married friend of mine who is going through a rough patch with her husband phoned me recently for a long chat. She knows my ex, and said to me ‘Having myself married a guy who is surgically attached to his parents, I think you have had a very lucky escape.’
And I agreed with her heartily.
Love that saying PJM!
Wise words Clay. I think that in some instances, whether we perceive it as a rejection or not, what someone is actually doing when they cross boundaries is rejecting being a respectful partner with integrity. That is what many people struggle with until they realise that instead of, as you say, giving them the power and taking it on, it’s recognising that they’re rejecting a lot of the stuff that comes with being in a mutual relationship, not because of you, but because it’s not who they are or what they want to be.
WOW….you hit the nail today Nat! Just now I got news that my ex’s new gf (my old ex friend) wrote a bunch of lies in her blog about me defaming her in my blog and in my twitter account every week. All lies! I’ve never even touched her name on persona on my blog. Needless to say, I’ve been thinking she was so much better than me for getting the best of him and being so happy. What it is all making me realize is how stupid I have been to even think this way. I gave this girl my trust and even if it was years later down the line, she betrayed it (even if we didn’t really keep in touch) and treats me like a stranger and the worse person in the world by lying about it.
To some extent this is all part of rejection, because I feel that by loving her and not me I am the worse of the bunch. When in reality he was the assclown all along. I am starting to accept my part in the relationship, but he has never owned any of his wrong doings and in his eyes and hers I was the crazy one just because I landed in the nut house once. I’m looking for some sort of validation and acknoloedgement from both of them that what they did was wrong, specially him. And what I need to realize is that that relationship alone does not define me. She is not better than me, because I was brave enough to get out of that miserable life and I can move on even with the pain, because it slowly, but surely sill pass. So help me God.
I replied to you on Twitter earlier. The key with this is that this man represents a very painful chapter in your life but you don’t own him or his progression. You and her are not friends although you were a few years back, but while their actions are insensitive and she has leveraged the shared history you had with him, it’s not ‘wrong’ for them to be with each other because you don’t own either of them but their individual treatment of you is certainly inappropriate. Ultimately, you’ll be blue in the face trying before you get that validation, not least because she may not have viewed you as friends for quite a while, and the truth is – neither did you. You don’t love her now and what’s between you is from times gone by. She hasn’t chosen him over you because whatever loyalty and friendship there was had passed – she’s just doing what a lot of women do – chasing love at all costs and trying to be the exception to the rule. Let it go. She’s clearly a twit mouthing off but as I said to you in New York, stop showing them that you give a damn. Trust me – a woman who is as happy as she claims to be, doesn’t fanny around writing shite like that on Twitter and her blog. Me thinks she doth protest too much.
As I read this with tears in my eyes…I completely agree with you Nat. I need to let all this pain go and move on once and for all. I just didn imagine that this episode with them would hurt me so much. I’m still in therapy which is good,, but I think I need a good cry to let it all out for good. Thanks again….you have been way more patient and understanding than my friends!
Awesome, just awesome 🙂 Sometimes in these situations the unavailable person comes to recognize that they can’t give you the relationship you want and, being basically a decent person, opts out. That’s not rejection! Hell, I’d rather that than what happened in my last go-around with my ex, i.e. the guy knew he didn’t want a relationship with me, but stuck around feeding me bull until it became too much of an effort for him. That’s not rejection either!
One of my friends was dating a great, emotionally available guy and, two months in, his family had a major crisis. He ended things with her, not because she wasn’t good enough to magically make him able to handle both a major life event and a budding-into-serious relationship, but because he knew he couldn’t give her what she needed and that his focus needed to be on his family. He told her straight up, “You deserve more than what I can give you right now and my family really needs me.” She was sad, but didn’t take it as a rejection, because it had jack to do with her. Whether it’s a great relationship, a sh*tty relationship or a “meh.” relationship, like Nat says, you can’t hang your value on what someone else chooses to do/not do!
That last line is true, Natasha. I remember oscillating on that because the AC told me he had to end things because he did not like me as a person, and had been pretending to be happy and want a future with me. In other words, he tied his choice to me as a person. That was tough. But still, all along, I had this huge part of me inside going, ‘Well, what can you do about that?’ I had treated him kindly, reliably and honestly, and so it was all that other stuff – the rest of the way I am – that he wasn’t into. Again, you can’t really do much about that. It’s someone’s preference. It was actually this great opportunity to take my caravan elsewhere, and even to give it a bit of a polish (I like my caravan!).
Apart from all that, I have recognised from these experiences that what people say when they’re heading out the door is pretty dubious. People say all sorts of things to make them feel better about their own decisions, that they may or may not understand, that may come from hugely personal impulses and fears, or just superficial, selfish thoughts that they’d like to explore something or someone else in life.
And, yes, yes, Natalie, I have to remember this too, especially now that in a new relationship:
I’ve had to learn to stop taking things to the nth degree, making everything about me, and seeing things not going my way as ‘rejection’. I’m pretty sure I used to get abandonment and rejection confused hence why I’d feel so terrible – they’re two different things but also people not doing what you want isn’t rejection or abandonment; it’s just people doing their own thing.
It’s that selfishness that gets you in hot/cold relationships – where you will be nice and attentive if you’re getting what you want, and getting feelings and perceptions projected back to you from the other. Whereas, once you realise the other person is separate – and may want to do their own thing (even something routine), the default of the assclown (and related tendencies) is to withdraw and belittle, perceiving it as rejection. So true – really, it’s not that dramatic.
“Apart from all that, I have recognised from these experiences that what people say when they’re heading out the door is pretty dubious.”
Oh, true story Elle. If someone was an AC in the relationship, I think it’s about a one in a million chance that they are not going to act like one when they are ending it. It’s kind of funny, because my ex-AC was an ass when things ended and I was shocked. I mean, really? Was I was expecting him to say, “Now that this thing is over and I’ve gotten what I wanted, I’m going to do a total about-face and be respectful to this woman that I haven’t actually had respect for while I boomeranged in and out of her life for five years.”? Not likely.
Fact is, someone can “not like you as a person” (Who says that? For serious. Your caravan is awesome.) and the relationship can still end with everyone’s dignity intact, despite any hurt feelings. If someone’s Decency Quotient is in the negatives, it’s that much harder. Couple that with us on the other end with some self-esteem /blame absorbtion/Jedi mind trick issues and it can snowball into, “Ohmygod. They don’t want to be with me. I’ve been rejected.” and the reality of how unhealthy the whole thing was to begin with can get lost in the Rejection Shuffle (a highly depressing dance – I don’t recommend it for parties.)
I’m so excited for you that your new relationship is going well. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you sharing about that – I’m sure that should I meet someone normal to have dinner with, I’m going to deal with some of the same stuff. Enjoy it – you deserve it 🙂
Elle, this is so true!
“Apart from all that, I have recognised from these experiences that what people say when they’re heading out the door is pretty dubious. People say all sorts of things to make them feel better about their own decisions, that they may or may not understand…”
—My ex AC said all kinds of contradictory things upon breaking up with me. In the same sentence in which he said it wasn’t me and he was just stressed with work he went on to accuse me of being “too resistant” (yeah…no surprise there, not always bending to his AC whims), “liking to go back and forth too much in conversation” (no kidding, I thought a convo was about a back and forth exchange!) and “liking to play fight too much”….WTF?! During a year and a 1/2 of back and forth, his complaints changed and he also had NO recollection of why he broke up with me, citing that I was the only gf he had no reason to break up with, saying I was a “good match” for him and the list goes on of all my great qualities.
Soooo yea…with ACs, it is all up for grabs and one really should give little weight to what a lot of them supposedly feel and think as they barely know themselves and are so broken that truly, their rejection should be welcomed. When my ex tried to pretend he was doing a noble thing by freeing me, it made me so upset, but now, I am eternally grateful that our relationship crashed and burned when it did! I am sure he was not being thoughtful or noble, but the Universe sure has a way of working things out despite that. I am glad he rejected me and I am glad that even when he came back and tried to pretend to change, he rejected me some more, as now I realize 1000% that he was NOT the one for me and I had plenty issues to work out myself. I am currently working on them and this article made me feel great tonight about the rejection by my recent EUM too, as I am certain he is not for me either and I am saving myself the heartache before I get in way too deep.
I think the moral of the story here is when you have been involved with someone who didn’t treat you that well/struggled to be honest/you regard as being an AC, never expect an ‘honesty’ in the breakup. Why break the habit of a lifetime?
Wow did we all date the same person? I love this website, I never even knew that I was being boomeranged til I found this blog. I knew I was attracted eum’s and/or ac’s but I didnt quite know the signs… I’m grateful for the words of wisdom various people post on here. My last eum/ac run in broke up with me and I remember being relieved and not feeling rejected at all, just walked away and thanked him. I didnt chase him, nothing its not normally my style but then he came back and I thought well maybe he’s seen the lite, then he started disappearing and coming back with me thinking he just couldnt do without me, how dumb. By the fourth time it was like I was beat down into feeling rejected, had I just not taken him back after the first and only real break up, I would have been spared. I never, ever want to feel that way again.
Ah your AC Elle was a real piece of work. It’s always good to remember that emotionally dishonest people are never going to be in a position to be truly honest about their reasons for breaking up nor are they ever going to own up to their part.
And it really is their own thing. If we remove ourselves out of the equation and remember that we can’t perform Jedi mind tricks and that unless they are a schizophrenic, they are not changing their personality *for* us, we realise they’re showing us themselves.
Thanks, Natalie! It’s all good! I even laugh about the fact that he was so unashamedly clear (brutal, one might say) in his not-into-me stance. It is actually pretty funny. Now, that is. But, yeah, Natasha, that oscillation I talked about is the rejection dance you brilliantly referred to. There’s definitely a perfomance-element to it all, and therefore, as Nat says, a choice. Thanks for the sweet thoughts, ladies, and best wishes MissE.
“It’s always good to remember that emotionally dishonest people are never going to be in a position to be truly honest about their reasons for breaking up nor are they ever going to own up to their part.”
Ooooh, I really needed to hear that! It’s seems so simple, and basic, and obvious, but apparently I am daft, as a lightbulb just went off! I’ve been really struggling with some things, and this really helps me to clarify it.
Thank you for this, and for this amazing post, which I need to read a few more times for it to really sink in. Still feeling rejected 😛
Your friend’s situation is so true! It’s just not that personal! It’s a pain in the ass but you cannot fault him for being upfront.
Agreed Nat! They worked together at the time and it was a total drama-free situation – he was a decent guy in a crappy situation and the timing was off. She, in turn, didn’t make it about her! It’s funny, because I’ve been guilty of thinking in the past, “I know this guy has always been a user and a raging jackass for five years…but, maybe he couldn’t be decent to me when things ended because….he hates his job/he has a headache/his favorite pair of shoelaces broke.” Errrrr, lesson learned!
Clay……….. You are a wise young Man! Luv Ya!
Fabulous timing! I just had a suck it and see evening with the ex. I was nervous, yes, but willing to remember that he was someone I’d once liked enough to date. I’d not forgotten that he finished things with me but I’ve been so gloomy about being rejected that I wanted the dark cloud to lift. So, I saw him to exchange items we both needed to return to each other. We chatted, we had coffee and it was nice. I see him more now as a person, not the man who rejected me. More like a great guy who I spent 7 months with who happens to mot be in a place where he can offer me what I need. So, ‘what’s wrong with me’? Nothing! I’m ok. I just can’t/won’t be happy settling for less than something that will make me happy. The relationship was doomed from the start as I knew he was EUM. At the time, the breakup sucked but now I feel a sense of c’est la vie and I recognise that we’re rejecting each others chosen paths, not each other as people.
It’s quite a nice feeling.
Sarah,
You’re a better person than me…I saw my ex last week and thought what a dickhead he looked in flip flops. Thankgod he did reject me…the shame of walking down our High Street with him would have killed me. He looked like Donald Duck.
Hilarious! 🙂
“I recognise that we’re rejecting each others chosen paths, not each other as people.” Brilliant Sarah T
A lot of people misconstrue the truth behind the rejection as them not being “good enough.”
Our mind filters our experiences in several ways–creating our perspective of life.
1.) Our mind will delete certain factors–only seeing what we want to see. 2.) Our mind will also distort or add things that aren’t really there 3.) Our mind takes certain experiences and generalizes them–creating stereotypical beliefs.
When it comes down to it, the way our mind filters our reality solely depends on how we feel about our selves. Your deeply rooted negative beliefs about yourself WILL impact the way you perceive your life.
If one of your beliefs is that you aren’t lovable… in some way, you’ll filter situations, trying to prove to yourself that you AREN’T lovable.
Our mind can seriously be such a bull sh** machine if you let it.
What’s help me change my negative beliefs about myself is POSITIVE FOCUSING… When we focus on what we WANT instead of don’t want to happen, we are going towards something rather than away from it.
When you’re avoiding something through negative focusing… you’re left walking in the dark with no direction. However, if you focus on what you WANT… you at least have a light to show you which direction to go:)
Thanks for this!
Thanks for sharing Mika. I have found that people who don’t feel they’re good enough look for constant examples (particularly from the media and peers) in real life to justify the mentality even though there are many other things contradicting it.
So true. This reminds me of a dance class years ago, when someone had given me a hard time about missing a step, and stepped on his foot, by accident, of course! I was overweight, felt offended and was upset.
The instructor came up to me in the locker room and said,”Why do you give so much power to one person, when so many people, myself included, think you’re amazing?”
Wise words. Things that you make you go hhmmmm…….
this is a great follow-up to the last one on rumination, obsession, etc. I am back here today not because of that, but because I was just confronted with the exEUM/AC last night after 6+ months of NC, calling from an unfamiliar #. and I caught him in a ridiculous lie within minutes. just when I felt I had made a very big step forward in healing, and was taking a “rumination holiday”. this issue of rejection is so big, I really want to focus on that, and not start having unhealthy thoughts b/c of this call.
sometimes I wonder: I have a whole bunch of girlfriends like me, in their 40’s, 50’s, who are still single/no kids, seeming to always attract the commitmentphobes, going through patterns described here for EU. but for all, incl. me, our parents didn’t split up, they were all happily married for 50+ years! no family is perfect and without conflict or issues. but the reality is our model was truly “for better or worse”. when you really love someone, you don’t leave b/c of problems. my sister’s still married the guy she met at 18. and most of these single female friends have siblings who are in very long term marriages. I can look back to my first big breakup at age 19 with 1st love, absolutely devastated, even though he behaved like a jerk (really). I could not wrap my head around the concept of breaking up, for 2 people in love. it’s as if there’s an unwritten universal law in my psyche: when you & someone else mutually decide you love each other, that bond is FOREVER. it’s a cultural thing too, my mom is from Middle East. there was no such thing as divorce, no matter what. her parents had an arranged marriage. my dad is American, but I absolutely had those old-world values imprinted on my being. my mother’s older sister moved here w/her family, and her husband ended up leaving her after 35 years for a younger woman. she had a total breakdown, as did her 2 daughters, none of them to this day has EVER recovered (25+ years). I understand that their way of commitment and attachment to family developed from 1000’s of years of survival (minority group) — literally, the family IS everything. leaving is unfathomable. and I’m starting to think somehow, in my brain, that has gotten raveled in to the whole EU/rejection sensitivity issues. sigh…
Anoosh, I don’t think it’s just a Middle Eastern thing – most people *everywhere* got married up until the 50s and 60s. We have Caribbean, African, English, and Irish cultural influences in our family – all of these were stick together no matter what in the past. Yes some of the cultural aspects of the Middle East (eg standing within the community) certainly mean that being left can deal a huge blow but I’ve heard variations of your aunt’s story many times over several cultures. And here’s the truth of it – having a no break up stance could only ever work if the two of you are in mutual agreement about it. In Ireland where I was brought up and I know there’s a few readers that can attest to it, women have stayed with men like your ex at 19 that remained EXACTLY the same. When divorce came in the 90s, I literally watched families break apart. The pretence was OVER. And lots of readers of BR come from families with happy marriages – it’s your perception of what a relationship entails, choices in partners, beliefs, self-esteem etc that affects who you end up with.
And I’m sorry but when you really love someone, you love them in reality. Problems don’t break a relationship because shit happens. Relationships need to ride the smooth with the rough. But fundamental character and values differences that erode you and the relationship are not ‘problems’ – they are ticking time bombs that will explode. Cheating, lying, beating, disappearing, verbal and emotional abuse, mind fuckery, not being in the relationship, still being attached to someone else – these are not ‘problems’. They are crater sized holes in your relationship.
Re your ex – it’s just a phonecall. He’s still who he is plus he slipped in some porkies. You have to start asking yourself what you have to ruminate over? List it.
“slipped in some porkies”, lmao! have no idea what that means but it sounds hilarious! been doing the lists thing for a long time, rrgghh. I’m sure the ruminating stems from many of the things you talk about frequently — not letting go of the fantasy of who they are in the beginning despite lots of A/C proof in the present, not knowing when to fold, last chance saloon, etc. since that phone call, I’ve felt strangely numb. which is great, actually. maybe it means I’m finally over it! ’bout time. that would be fabulous.
couldn’t agree more, absolutely about this phenomenon across cultures the world over. what I’ve wondered about more are the friends like me who had an example of very strong commitment & families as our model, and have had trouble finding it in our own lives. it seems as if many of us developed very naive and romanticized ideas about love, susceptible to falling too easily in love. and we weren’t prepared for how relationships very often get treated as disposable, how easily people could walk away after years of commitment. I know I was never given any kind of direction for how to deal with rejection or heartbreak. just had no concept about processing letting go of a romantic attachment. I don’t know if this observation is of any significance. my mind just never rests, always wanting explanations for everything. I should’ve gotten PhD (too bad at math & science) :)!
many more thoughts on the cultural things, talk about it w/my friends whose families are from the region all the time. don’t like being on stage, but for fun I was thinking of putting together a stand-up act on the topic from a female POV, b/c some of the stuff is hysterical. omg, “boundaries”? what’s that?!! it’s like “My Big Fat Greek Wedding” x 100. or more.
One of my closest friends – her parents blissfully happy for a gazillion years. She’s always dated dipsticks. Her dad was the type of guy she wanted to settle down with in the end but she liked the fun and being treated mean and kept keen by Mr Unavailables. Her parents may be happy and absolutely love her to death but that doesn’t make her the most confident person on earth. To be honest and she admits this – she always thought when she was ready to settle that it would just happen and a marriable guy would just come along. And also – like many women, she thought that you get attracted to the guy, you love him to death and then you settle. She didn’t reckon being messed around. She’s often liked Mr Unavailable – she didn’t enjoy the behaviours that come with the package. It was ‘Act now, think later’ and it’s the usual moral of the story – nothing wrong with fun and excitement but if you make a habit of being with Mr Unavailables that don’t always treat you in the best of ways, even if you started out with good self-esteem, you end up taking a few knocks and being out of sync with what you really want.
I’ll come to the stand up!
Thank you, Anoosh and Natalie, for your thoughts above. Like Anoosh and her friends, I’m in my early 50’s and from a secure family with parents who’ve been married over 60 years and still very much in love. And yet my older sister and I have both had relationships with A/C’s and EUM’s. I was puzzled by this, but as Natalie says, having parents that are happily married and who love you to death doesn’t necessarily make you the most confident person on earth. And I agree with Anoosh that coming from a background of parents with a long and secure marriage maybe we’re just naive about love and overly trusting of the other person in our own relationships without doing the “due diligence” first. I guess because my lovely Dad isn’t the sort to mess people around, I’ve been totally blindsided by the ability of men I’ve been involved with to have such a totally different set of values to his, that they would treat me without the love, care, trust and respect that just goes without saying in my own family. I’m just amazed that I hadn’t ever joined up the dots and realised that I’ve actually been involved with the same guy different package many times since my late teens! Until now, that is… I was totally devastated by my breakup in February (after he literally ran off at Heathrow Airport at the end of our holiday, which he had spent being unbelieveably spineless, self-centred and heartless almost the whole time). I literally had a breakdown, lost a stone in weight in 3 weeks, couldn’t sleep, could barely drag myself into work, and felt utterly rejected and inconsolable. I’ve been NC for just over 2 months now, and after a *lot* of reading through the BR archives and weekly therapy, all the lessons that life has been repeatedly showing me (and which Natalie points out to us here) are at last starting to sink in, the unbearable pain has gradually been receding and my self-esteem is building bit by bit. It has taken the wake-up call of being so badly shaken physically, mentally and emotionally by this last relationship to start making the effort to do life differently. It’s hard to break the habits of a lifetime of what really amounts to self-neglect, and sometimes the baby steps are frustratingly small, but I’m incredibly grateful for the wonderful resource that you provide here, Natalie. Thank you so much.
My parents are coming up on 50 years of marriage. They have definitely had their problems, but have stayed together all these years. But I don’t believe that just because a couple is together long-term necessarily means their marriage is a healthy example. I learned a lot watching my parents. My dad was often absent for work, and when he was home, he was still absent, watching TV or napping on the sofa, while my Mom ran around making the house nice, cooking, keeping us kids from disturbing him. She basically raised us by herself. My dad was/is also very controlling, and I have never gotten a clear picture of who my mom really is, because she was always so busy morphing into whatever she needed to be to accomodate his moods.
I too was never taught how to deal with rejection or heartbreak. The only example I saw was to bend over backward to try and keep someone happy. So, basically I was taught to avoid rejection at all costs.
This is only one example, but I think I always equated a marriage/relationship with completely losing yourself, and that example has definitely scared me off “commitment”.
Makes me wonder if other women who are surrounded by long-term relationships, but don’t choose healthy partners, are maybe have never seen the difference between healthy long-term, and just plain old commitment out of obligation or fear.
“I’ve had to learn to stop taking things to the nth degree, making everything about me, and seeing things not going my way as ‘rejection’. I’m pretty sure I used to get abandonment and rejection confused hence why I’d feel so terrible…”
Can I add that another thing we might confuse with rejection is humiliation? I remember another reader’s comment where a break up reminded her of some guys or girls that had pretended to like her, then told her the “truth.”
As a pre-teen I was told often, probably just to see my reaction, that I was ugly, a dog, disgusting, etc and explicitly forced to listen to guys pretending to puke at the thought of touching me or kissing me or even coming within the radius of my apparent smell. They would imagine sexual scenarios out loud and then retch and laugh, etc.
This wasn’t a simple “I don’t want to date you.” Obviously it was way more than that. But they did a very good job of blurring my sense of a guy not being interested in me with the sense that I was a freak of nature and physically revolting. I would do a lot not to feel the feelings associated with that group sexual bullying.
I took any guy’s interest as “proof” I wasn’t what those guys said; so a guy’s disinterest unfortunately became proof that I was. I would do a lot not to lose proof that I was not disgusting.
It’s no small task to disassociate the reality of things not working out with an old, stupid message of “you are too disgusting for anyone (worthy) to ever want to work things out with you.” To disassociate the message from reality mentally is one relatively easy hurdle. To let the feelings in the body come – shame, fury, fear – as they do if I actually let myself like someone and risk their rejection, but not to believe those feelings, is another hurdle.
I know I have protected myself by choosing Unavailables: I never *really* liked them in the first place, so I never have to risk things not working out making me feel the way I felt when I did still really like the boys I liked.
Through this blog and other work, I’m getting to the place where I can make really liking someone a possibility again. What I choose to really like is about me. Even if what I really like doesn’t want me, it stings, but I think I can finally handle the idea that not everything/everyone that I love and want needs to love or want me back.
Wise words Magnolia. I think you have to continue to find your way and create an identity on your own terms by whatever means necessary. All I can say from personal experience is that I’ve been called many names, experienced things that made me believe I was a piece of shit, and would still experience a level of discomfort if I recall certain experiences. You’re only human, you can’t erase your past but your head is facing in the wrong direction because the more you look forward and work on now and the future, is the less those things impact you, is the more you can go when you recall a situation “Ah that’s discomfort at remembering something that hurt me” as opposed to “Hello shame”. The situations, the experiences, the people are gone and in the past so they have no more power over you – you do. You get to decide how you feel about you.
Magnolia, OMG, I could have written your post! I had the same type of experiences when I was a pre-teen and teen; boys saying things in front of me about how repulsive I was and how they’d rather die than kiss me. I just never before connected it with the issues I have now with rejection, but everything you said totally rings true for me.
You’ve given me some things to think about …
I think many of us with issues surrounding rejection and EUM actually experienced a lot of rejection with our peers during childhood. So even though I came from a very tight knit and loving family, my horrendous experiences in middle and high school have a lot to do with my fear of intimacy today. It was really painful!
Ive just read this post by you Magnolia. I cannot beleive what I read, that treatment of you was so vile, Im totally at a loss for words. I hope you know that you have a safe place here. Everything you contribute is valid and nothing but love is felt for you. xxxx
Spot on Natalie…absolutely awesome!
Hey Leisha! Thank you!
Hey Natalie, You are welcome! I love what you do…and the pic too!
It’s like you have to make a decision and stick with it, whether it’s staying in the relationship or opting out, and at the same time realize you have the choice to do either. Obsessing and blaming yourself over a decision to stay or even the decision to break up is not making a decision. It’s avoiding taking responsibility for the choices you make every moment.
EXACTLY Robin!
Such good timing, tonight I discovered my ex-EUM-AC-teammate has sold another batch of his sports equipment which we used together.
The first time he did this after ditching the team eg me I was slighted by the rejection. I felt he was trying to erase the memories, especially as he also sold his sports car.
This time however I felt indifferent if not positive. Time does heal.
It certainly does and just remember – he’s just selling equipment. It might be because he’s low on cash, he might be upgrading, he might not have any space anymore or he might not even be exercising.
Natalie,
Another great post. In the work I have been doing myself over the last year, I came to the realization that I suffer from low self-esteem. Rejection can be devastating blow when you don’t understand that about yourself. I had to work hard to get approval from my single parent, an ambivalent father, and I didn’t understand until recently that was how I approached my adult relationships. Either completely give what I could to EUMs, or hold back and not really try (therefore not be available to true rejection and abandonment).
In my last ex, I ended up attracting a man who always had one foot out the door and never fully appreciated me or my efforts to make the relationship work. He said lovely, lovely, things to me about my value to him, our future, a family, in the beginning. When he no longer wanted to be in the relationship, he suddenly broke up with me in about 20 minutes. I had been on the verge of moving in (his suggestion, months before). We hadn’t argued, or had a serious discussion about wanting different things, it was out of the blue. When I asked him why, he placed the reasons solely on me, the level of my performance. He told me it was because I didn’t cycle, we had different energy levels, I worried too much about things, I didn’t have more friends to introduce him to, and that I hadn’t been there for him at times (in our two year relationship I didn’t go to a couple of parties with him because I was tired, that’s the only thing I could guess he meant). We aren’t teenagers, but in our late 30’s, and yet the conversation felt like we were in high school. He continued to say that although we were still having “good times”, these things about me were why he wasn’t happy. That was all he gave me. While in shock, and trying to understand, hearing all of this for the first time, (he revealed me he’d been struggling for months, but outwardly he had only been affectionate and happy around me, introducing me to his parents, telling me he loved me ect) I asked why he hadn’t spoken up about being unhappy or having reservations. He told me it was because he didn’t want me to jump through hoops to make him happy. In other words, his lack of integrity, open and honest communication, was because of me, what I might do. Objectively, I know it wasn’t actually personal, and he did me a favor, but again, actually being told by the one you love you failed them somehow (because they can never say exactly how) is extremely painful.
Jasmine, your ex is a pisstaker. “He told me it was because I didn’t cycle, we had different energy levels, I worried too much about things, I didn’t have more friends to introduce him to, and that I hadn’t been there for him at times (in our two year relationship I didn’t go to a couple of parties with him because I was tired”
Now these are the reasons he gave but as Grace and others pointed out, people say all sorts of inaccurate shit when they break up. They want to break up. They often need to give a reason – in his case, it’s like he bent over and talked out of his arse.
A man in his late 30s who already had his foot out the door, giving excuses of this nature for breaking up, is only demonstrating what a completely immature twit he is.
He failed you many times – you seem to be forgetting that. Never try to make a relationship work where you’re the only one trying to do it. He’s just not that special. He’s also a coward and a tit.
Natalie, you could just as easily have been writing about my ex there as about Jasmine’s. Except that, depressingly, mine wasn’t in his late 30’s but is 53 years old. Like Jasmine, my ex put all the blame for the failure of our relationship on superficial things about me and how our lifestyles and interests were incompatible. Funnily enough, when he talked about his previous failed relationships, it was always their fault too, never his. One (his ex-wife) was “too thick”, another “too controlling” and another was “barking mad”. How disrespectful was that!!!??? Why on earth didn’t I notice those outsized red flags flapping wildly around when I heard him talk about them like that? Too blinded by what I thought was love at the time, I guess. The really important things that were incompatible about us, which I doubt at his age he will ever have the insight to realise, were our basic life values – his are so far removed from the ones I grew up with that it’s no wonder being with him ended up making me so ill – my subconscious self must have been working overtime to get me to reject him!
Natalie – “They often need to give a reason – in his case, it’s like he bent over and talked out of his arse ” – the mental picture I had of that just had me roaring with laughter 😀
Great timing on this post. I have recently ended my marriage and unfortunately, he still lives here as I am not going to throw him into the streets. What I took away from this post was being ok with decisions you make and not making them into a personal rejection. I know that he does not see it this way but I am not rejecting him as a person, I am rejecting him as my husband. It is not my job to say that he can’t be a good husband to someone else. Someone who has a completely different idea of good husband than me! He has certainly been an EUM and an asshat but there may be someone who is fine with that – who am I to say?
“It’s unavoidable and being able to say NO, to opt out of situations, to admit when something isn’t working, is part of the natural order of freeing yourself up to be available for a mutual relationship. ” You know what else it is? MATURE. It’s mature to be able to admit your own culpability in a doomed relationship. It’s mature to say that your own fear of rejection made you marry someone totally unsuitable in every way possible.
Taking this stance on rejection will help me immensely as I deal with this fallout. Thanks for another insightful post, Nat!
“It is not my job to say that he can’t be a good husband to someone else.” – very true Wicked74. At the end of the day, you wanted different things. The relationship wasn’t working for you.
I was so sick of my MM telling me that if he was not married; we would be in a real relationship. It used to make my heart skip, because I thought we had this connection, which may or not be true, but so what? Now, I realize that each time I was paid this “compliment” (gag me!), I was in reality being rejected, each instance provided false hope which in turn never happened, resulting in rejection! By sticking around, I was perpetuating this vicious cycle of rejection. Lesson learned! Thanks again Natalie!
Very insightful and very, very true Nevertoolate!
Thank you for another well-timed post.
I am struggling with rejection right now, and you rephrased it in just the right way. This will be bookmarked as a favorite for the next time a guy and I “want different things”!
Glad to help!
Mika,
I really identified with your comment, and maybe in some ways you didn’t even intend for. I sure as hell am guilty of seeing rejection as not being good enough. As an OW (I guess I need accept that he ended it, and I am indeed an ex OW now…that stings to admit), I felt in constant competition with his wife and, sadly, his kids. When he ended it last week I kept thinking, “I lost. I’m not good enough”. My whole relationship with him was based on me trying to prove myself worthy of his love, more worthy than someone else, and when it all came to a head, I felt defeated and unloved and rejected.
You wrote: “When it comes down to it, the way our mind filters our reality solely depends on how we feel about ourselves” – bingo. Having low self-esteem and little confidence in myself, I didn’t think I deserved to be respected and cared for properly. As Natalie has said in a previous post, my managed-down expectations kept getting lower and I accepted less and less from this man. I lost myself in searching for that special phrase, text/email, that light at the end of the tunnel, to pick me back up and make me feel wanted by him – that’s not love, and it’s certainly not healthy. I was constantly anxious and upset and longing. So much longing.
Contrary to your post, I AM focusing on the negative right now – thinking about how miserable I was in the relationship, how often I cried and how he never gave me what I needed. I made all of that easy for him, but it’s not what I want – I want to be happy and loved fully and, by being a mistress, I was being constantly rejected…I just didn’t realize it.
I’m still at that stage where my heart would leap if he came back to me saying he made a mistake, but I hope that if and when that day does come, I will be in a place where I can “reject” him. I’m not there yet, but I have some hope.
Bri,
I think this relationship with this guy has been very painful for you – as you say full of longing and “if onlys” and full of highs and lows and i think it has affected your self esteem, it is bound to have. It’ll take some time to heal from this experience and find peace of mind again. I think you never had peace of mind while in the r/s with him. Now, you can breathe again -the anxiety, uncertainty and turmoil is at an end. I always say *you cannot put a price on peace of mind*. To me, my peace of mind is worth everything to me. I wish you the best on your road to recovery.
And the truth is Bri, you could never compete with someone’s children and you shouldn’t want to. OWs start out in a default position of being at least second best giving you the opportunity to ‘fight’ for pole position. Start relationships on a level footing and don’t set yourself up in situations where he has to ‘choose’ you over someone else.
Bri,
Hoping that one day saying “no” to him is a good sign that you’re headed in the right direction. At least you know what you want AND what you deserve. The first step about changing your current mindset about needing him, is rediscovering your self-worth.
Our deepest negative beliefs about ourselves are stemmed from our negative experiences in our childhood. Even though our conscious minds KNOW what we want, our subconscious mind is the one steering the wheel. And what your subconscious mind believes is what the little girl inside of you believes.
Our subconscious mind will always try to prove to ourselves that we aren’t worthy, smart, pretty (and the list goes on) enough through self sabotage —>(i. e, you going after a relationship that you KNEW was doomed to begin with).
However, we CAN change our subconscious mind’s negative beliefs about ourselves and in doing so, we improve our lives for the better in ALL aspects.
You WILL get to that point when someday, you can tell him and other men (in your future relationships) that you are a woman WORTHY of love, respect and happiness.
Once you start loving yourself unconditionally, you’ll be attracting the right kind of men and the relationship you crave for.
Remember Bri, you MUST attract love… and never demand it.. And the best way to do it is to know to the DEPTHS of your core– that you are a beautiful, strong, radiant woman that doesn’t need any man to complete her… because she completes herself..
and THAT is the root behind successful relationships..is when each individual person doesn’t NEED each other to feel complete:)
sending you good vibes,
<3 Mika
“I’m pretty sure I used to get abandonment and rejection confused hence why I’d feel so terrible – they’re two different things but also people not doing what you want isn’t rejection or abandonment; it’s just people doing their own thing.” You know Natalie, you just have a way with hitting this stuff out of the ball park. You just summed up my entire 52 years with one simple, clear sentence. It’s just people doing their own thing? I’m not disregarding , denying or dismissing the string of AC’s, EUM’s, greedy MM’s, and physically and emotionally abusive males I’ve been involved with but sometimes people can just be doing their own thing and it isn’t my father abandoning, rejecting, or not having enough time for me?
My ex MM didn’t reject or abandone me? He lied to me. His lies were about him? I’m not being rejected or abandoned?
Hmm, runner, your last question is a good one. Because I would have thought, yes, of course the MM abandons the OW. All the time. But the fundamental thing is how the OW is rejecting herself by putting her heart in the care of an abandoner. The OW is the one who truly knows her inner self, that small voice and her own heartbeat and needs to treasure it.
I do think it makes sense to say he isn’t rejecting YOU because the real you doesn’t want to futz around with a married guy; the real you wants love and support and honesty, but you never showed him the real you in that relationship, anyway. You weren’t showing YOU the real you. At that point you were rejecting the part of yourself that deserved constancy and cherishing.
I dunno. Seems almost too easy to chime in with a POV on other folks – when I’m the one who needs to read and reread Getting Out of Stuck.
Magnolia, I am printing out your words and taping them to my bathroom mirror and sending them to my smart phone so I can read them whenever I have a nostalgic moment (I’m two weeks NC today from the ex MM who I was with for six years and who I rejected, in the end). This so hit home for me: “The OW is rejecting herself by putting her heart in the care of an abandoner.” And these lines: “The real you doesn’t want to futz around with a married guy; the real you wants love and support and honesty, but you never showed him the real you in that relationship, anyway. You weren’t showing YOU the real you. At that point you were rejecting the part of yourself that deserved constancy and cherishing.” This is so the heart of the matter for me right now, keeping the focus on me and why I did that rejecting of myself. I am seeing that for me it goes back to deep childhood issues of having been taught to take care of everyone else’s needs (notably, my mother’s) first. I see the connection between waiting hours for my mom to pick me up after school when I was six, seven, eight, nine years old and waiting days, weeks, etc for the MM to decide to stop by when it was convenient for him (there are more examples, but I’ll leave it at that). The REAL me knows I deserve much better. That dysfunctional pattern runs deep, but I am glad that being aware is the first step on the road to another, better road.
AdrienneBytheSea – You did the right thing. Six years is a long time. Too long. Let it be. You can only know you deserve better by giving yourself better.
Totally agree with you runnergirl. My long line of Mr Unavailables with the occasional AC along with various negative experiences are not the same as when my father abandoned me. They are such hugely different things but I labelled them the same. Those experiences were painful but most of the stuff wasn’t *about* me but it was about a lot of dubious choices.
The MM didn’t ‘abandon’ you – you both never in it for him to abandon you so you were really going to experience ‘abandonment abandonment’. He abandoned the dream but to be fair, you can’t hold someone accountable to pie in the sky. He lied to you because he’s The Cheater – there is no such thing as an honest cheat because if there was, he’d have gone home the first time you shagged or it was on the horizon and said “Honey, just to let you know. I’m attracted to Runnergirl and I’m thinking I want to shag her”. He had to be *caught* and I doubt he’s told her the whole truth and nothing but the truth. He lied to keep you on side but he also lied because it was his nature and also because you were receptive – lies cannot take shape or grow without someone being receptive and denying the truth once it is apparent. Did he reject you? No. He rejected being an honest man in an honest relationship and for that, he did it to *both* of you.
Thanks Natalie. I’ve struggled with the childhood abandonment/rejection stuff and this is the first time I can see a difference between the past and the present. This is also the first time I’ve been able to distinguish between them, my father, and me. It has been all tangled in my mind. We are all separate people with separate issues. I’ve been internalizing their issues and throwing myself under the same rejection bus in order to avoid rejection.
“He lied to keep you on side but he also lied because it was his nature and also because you were receptive…” This is where I’ve been stuck. The amount of deception that is part of an affair is mind numbing when reality “He rejected being an honest man in an honest relationship and for that, he did it to *both* of you.”
You made me snort my coffee, again!
I needed to hear all this today because after reading this post I realised that I handed my power over to the ex MM. When we broke up (over the phone) in 2008 I said “Well I guess I have to take this rejection as a woman and get on with it.”
Nat, thanks for reminding me he rejected being an honest man in an honest relationship and he did it to both of us.
What I did was to set myself up for what I perceived as being rejected. I gave too much power to one person. It’s a good thing the power is back in-house and I’m working more and more on me.
Ladies… I need help. After starting a comment thread on here a little while ago about how I was having trouble finding men who were available but not too socially off-putting, I met a man last week who seemed to be available and quite nice, and we went on two great dates. We had discussed getting together yesterday but he said he might have a big project coming in and too much work. Then I heard nothing from him for three days, then heard from him yesterday just to say he did get the project, is swamped, and asking how my weekend was. I replied within a few hours with something chatty and flirtatious because I was trying to hide the fact that I was upset at the three day gap in communication and him not suggesting a different time to get together. And that was yesterday and I have not heard a thing from him although I know he checks his messages all the time.
Is there anything I can/should do? I know everything Nat says in this post is true but I can’t help getting hung up/invested way too soon! Is this guy a douche/trying to blow me off? Help! I feel totally incapable of handling these situations. They literally throw me into a panic attack, and yes I have been through a lot of therapy.
I don’t think you can really know if somebody is available after two dates, unless you came out and asked him if he was involved with anybody else or was casually dating.
But if you both agreed to some tentative plans and he didn’t call you until after the date of the plan, that’s bad form. In fact, I would consider it red flaggy.
You need more information though. Proceed with caution! If you get asked out by someone else or want to ask out somebody else, go for it. Don’t put all your eggs in this one.
Jennifer, I agree with Eve – keep your eyes and ears open on this one. Were these convos over text or on the phone? If I had a crazy big project come in, someone I’d only been out with a few times would probably be less of a prioity than the project, but personally I would call them to let them know what was happening, make sure they knew I was looking forward to getting together and give a definite timeframe when I’d be available for a date. I’d also be sure to keep in touch on the phone (minimal texting – if I like them, I want them to hear my voice and know for sure that I’m interested!). The ball is in his court, so all you have to do is see what he does, take notice of any code ambers/reds and act accordingly. Hope this helps!
Hi Jennifer. We talk on here about Red Flags. And in reading your post I see a whole host of them. Now dont get upset or take this the wrong way, because I say this with love. The Red Flags are coming from you. Your just not ready honey. Going into melt down about some guy not contacting you after 3 days? This is exactly what Nat talks about. We like to rant the about the AC in our lives but what we are unfortunatley unaware of is our own Tom Foolery. Self awareness comes over time and if I was feeling like this I would take that as I need to still do some work on myself. This type of response comes across as… please contact me to validate me…Any guy worth his salt will pick up on this and back away, and a guy who is AC will pick this up run with it. Now no-one on here has the physic ability to do anothers thinking. This is the problem, your wracking your brains about his thinking, trying to work out what someone elses thinking will put you on a one way train to Looneyville. This is a prime case of what alot of our problems are, if we just work out what he is thinking we can morph ourselves into what he wants, give him the right answers etc etc etc etc. The focus honey should be on your thinking, what do you think, what do you want, hell do you even really like this guy and after two dates what are your impressions. Is there anything you can do? In a word No, not about him anyway but you can do something about you. If you think he’s blowing you off, just shrug, you only met him twice. so what. He’s only one bloke and Im afraid it does’nt matter if he is blowing you off because unfortunatley not everyone is life is gonna like us, love us, fancy us, feel an obligation towards us….
If you feel totally of incapable of handling these situations, you have answered your own questions, you cant handle these situations. Your not full of your own self love, how can you date if you dont think your OK. If you think he’s full of crap and blowing you off, hes full of crap and blowing you off. Theres no right or wrong answer, its about what you feel. If it pans out he’s some Divine Entity and you blew him off so what it was’nt meant to be. xxxx
You are so right. Could someone please help me see how to love myself? Every time I think I’m making progress, and then something like this happens. I need help. Badly.
Could someone really spell it out for me? Not just “read through the site,” I need steps. Really.
Yeah, I get that, I need a new Road Map this ones a bit of the beaten track….
Jennifer, I’ll be interested to know how you handle your situation.
From my end it seems like a three day gap, after only two dates, is no big deal. How can anyone go from not knowing someone at all and having them in 0% of their days, to suddenly having them in 90% of their days, or even 100%? Seems like once a week or twice a week contact is a good starting pace.
That said, I recently posted about a guy who asked me out, dropped talking for weeks, asked me out again, and dropped conversation. He just asked me out for the third time, to which my roommate is like “that seems nice” even though she knows I’m beside myself trying to analyze the crap out of the situation so I can assure myself I will not be somehow duped and used.
I decided to invite a couple of friends to the same event he asked me to and said we’re going, join along if you like. He called tonight to say great! and do you want to do dinner after?
I’d said that the two weeks of no contact was a no-go for me. And here I am reconsidering.
I have been rereading Natalie’s posts on giving good men a hard time, keeping a feelings diary right from the start, and taking courage from the list of questions I will ask – mainly, do you have a girlfriend?
I wrote the post above about learning to take a risk of liking someone earlier today. I’m already looking at him and wondering if the reason I am not gaga is because he just doesn’t give me that AC thrill of fear: mind you, I can create it. I think: is it possible I could care if THIS person would eventually reject me?
Two weeks, three days … is it all subjective? All about our own personal boundary?
Hi Jennifer –
Yes you can! You CAN help over-investing – if I can do it, anyone can. But it does take a bit of effort: you have to control your imagination, focus on other things and stop over-thinking this one. You’re just excited, that’s all, because this one hasn’t been a jerk straight away … give him time!
Alternatively, give in to the fantasies about him being The One, and then have a huge laugh at yourself afterwards. Or, try imagining that you discover he has a huge on-line porn habit, or a mystery first wife, or a thing for anonymous sex with men …
These simple tried-and-tested techniques can really keep your feet on the ground.
If he doesn’t contact you within a week, I’d give him the flick, quite frankly. No one’s THAT busy that they can’t at least email you or call you quickly.
If he doesn’t call/contact, DON’T CHASE HIM, or scold him or anything – just leave it.
Grab this opportunity with both hands, Jennifer – seize this as your big chance to get off the merry-go-round of humiliation and retreat with dignity. This in turn makes it easier to go out with the next guy, and you’ll be less nervous next time.
Jennifer, you *have* to help yourself on being invested. This is too much, too soon and alarm bells are ringing! You are Fast Forwarding. It’s been two dates. Remember when you didn’t know him a matter of weeks ago? Go about your life, do your own thing, be a personally secure person. If he calls, he calls. If he doesn’t – NEXT! Who knows if he’s a douche but it’s too soon for you to pin your whole life on him. If he is a douche, it’ll be revealed pretty quickly. Oh and you’ve been on two dates – you’re behaving like you’re in a relationship.
Nat, I know you’re right but when I start freaking out and panicking when this happens, what do I DO? I know intellectually that what you say is true, but it always seems that in the moment, nobody I trust to talk to and help me is around and nothing I tell myself helps to take the pain away.
I think this over-investing problem will prevent me from ever finding any kind of personal happiness if not addressed, but I have so much trouble fixing it. When it happens, I can’t sleep or concentrate. Can you suggest anything? As I’ve said, I’ve been to loads of therapy and it feels a little better in the moment to talk to the therapist but at the end of the day I leave and go back to feeling lonely and lousy. To be honest, I generally avoid dating relationships of any kind because I fear this happening so deeply, but this guy asked me out so I figured I should try.
I can’t be the only one. Help.
Jennifer, if you’re experiencing a high level anxiety about going out on two dates and are unable to sleep and concentrate, it begs the question of why you would go out and date if you haven’t taken constructive measures to address the root cause of the anxiety? I don’t know what that is by just reading your comment but what I do know is that you’re veering between trying to run before you can walk or deciding “Shag it! I won’t walk at all.”
While there are some people who are anxious and realise that part of overcoming rejection is actually *taking* it and *dealing* with it and learning through each experience that they live to tell the tale, you’re not one of them. You’re alive, you’re kicking, no-one’s tarred and feathered you and I bet you don’t realise how great you are because you’re too busy being anxious.
The exceedingly high level of drama attached to this situation is unhealthy. It’s not because you are rejectionable why you cannot forge a relationship – it’s because with this level of anxiety after a week, it’s unsustainable whether it’s with Mr Available or Mr Unavailable.
You don’t need to avoid dating and relationships *forever* – you need to put 110% effort into finding the most appropriate support (I’m sure there are therapists that specifically deal with anxiety including cognitive behavioural therapists), taking a confidence class and learning techniques to gain some self control. No offence Jennifer, but chatting about your problems doesn’t sort them out – taking action does. It surprises me that with all of this therapy, not one person has given you constructive exercises and techniques for managing your anxiety!
What I don’t get a sense of here is self control. It’s like “Hey, there might be a fire.” Instead of thinking about what you can constructively do and how to access the reality of that fire and taking action, you do nothing and think about the possibility of there being a fire, how it will hurt, and how awful it will be and how you’re so terrible but never once think of a solution or do anything to constructively manage your anxiety.
The fact of the matter is, if there was possibility of a fire, you would use knowledge you already have to quickly think through the situation, check for smoke, heat, and even get the hell out. The fact that you have *that* much time to play with that you could lose sleep and concentration suggests that you are not responding to *real* external evidence of a ‘threat’ – you’re playing out your own internal drama.
If you don’t want to be lonely, if you don’t want to be lousy, stop being helpless and letting your mind run wild. Go to the gym and get on a treadmill when your mind goes into overdrive. Walk. Focus on doing things that need 100% attention. Make sure your day and your evening is full. Force yourself to choose something else to think about. Literally drag your thoughts from Exhibit A to whatever it is you’re supposed to be doing. Write out your thoughts to organise them. Keep a Feelings Diary. Join Meetup.com and force yourself to go to one outing a week so that you become used to meeting new people. Address your beliefs. Stop trying to take shortcuts. Start relying on YOU because just because someone isn’t around, doesn’t mean you can’t have a rational conversation with yourself.
I’m not a therapist Jennifer. I don’t ‘treat’ anything. I provide advice, commentary, tips, tools etc that can be of great benefit when you are ready to illuminate your life with answers, find solutions and take action.
In regards to what you can tell yourself. Stand in front of the mirror and say “Jennifer, it was just two fricking dates! TWO. I’ve known him a week! Whatever is or isn’t happening – I will be OK! It’s just two fricking dates. It’s just two fricking dates. It’s just two fricking dates.”
“Is it possible he’s found out ‘something’ about me? Er, how the hell could he – it’s just two fricking dates!”
“I’m scared that I’ve scared him off. Er, it’s just two fricking dates. I had a good time but jaysus, if it doesn’t progress, I’ll live. It’s just two fricking dates!”
“Go to the gym and get on a treadmill when your mind goes into overdrive. Walk. Focus on doing things that need 100% attention. Make sure your day and your evening is full. Force yourself to choose something else to think about. Literally drag your thoughts from Exhibit A to whatever it is you’re supposed to be doing. ”
Nat, that is truly excellent advice. I have GAD and felt that in my case medication wasn’t the answer. What you’ve described is just about EXACTLY what I do! Jennifer, I can tell you this works 🙂
Jennifer, getting a pet is also a great option if you have the time! Studies have shown that the simple act of petting a dog or cat can lower blood pressure. Pets also encourage you to get out and meet more people – dog parks are a lot of fun and filled with like-minded potential friends. A pet’s antics can also add a big dollop of good old uncomplicated fun to your life as well. I have a rescue bulldog and I can tell you that the unconditional love that pets give can be a great healer!
p.s. A lot of cute guys hang out at dog parks/will stop and pet a doggie on the street. Just sayin’ 😉
Jennifer,
I used to have the exact same problem. What helped me is simple:
I told the truth.
That means, I sat myself down, and I said the honest truth.
It hurt. A LOT!!!
The truth for me was, that no amount, of talking to therapists, thinking, praying, hoping, calling others about this intense anxiety issue would work, until I admitted that the anxiety was that I felt that I was not okay, that if this relationship ended (even a two-date-long “relationship”!) ended I would not be okay AT ALL. In fact, that it would be over for me, my last chance, no happiness at all. Because, I knew I was unloveable to the Nth degree and this man WAS MY LAST HOPE.
Honestly, the anxiety was so intense that I once got diarrhea, serious, intense, total body betrayal sickness – because he said he would call that evening and I had been waiting for a few hours and could not stand it. I flipped. This is with a guy who I had not even had a date with yet. (He’s not around anymore.)
So I suggest that therapists probably HAVE given you tools. You’ve just “forgotten” them. You probably HAVE read good books on the subject and gotten great advice. You will read the books and the advice, nod your head and when he does not call again you will
FLIP OUT GO NUTS HAVE AN ANXIETY MELTDOWN
because no amount of mental “talking to” you give yourself will do diddly-squat if you believe you are simple NOT OKAY without a man and THERE IS NO HOPE then you will act from that deepest belief every time.
So what I did was I played the “What if?” game. What if I ended up alone? What if I did not marry? What if I did not have children? What if he was not the one? Could I live, NOT HAVE TO BE HAPPY ABOUT IT, just live with it?
So I started imagining the very thing I feared so deeply. I just started to accept it as a possibility. NOTE: I did not have to like it, I just had to accept it as possible and start thinking of my future in terms of being alone and making the best of it.
What happened? At first, I panicked. Again. I got so ANGRY!!!!! I flipped out! And then I started to allow this new future, a little at time. I worked at this for a year or more. Instead of thinking, Oh when I met my man, I will (start saving, feel better, buy this or that, accomplish x dream)…I instead said, okay, what if I started now? Without a man?
This was not easy at first,…
This was not easy at first, but it got easier over time. Then, a funny thing happened. I started to feel more confident. A little at a time, because at least I was doing something proactively, even if it was just thinking about a future alone but with me at the helm, handling it as best I could.
So sometime later, without trying in the slightest, a guy walked in. I felt anxious, but when I did, I just told him. Straight out. And it soon passed. Then I started to feel in control of myself because since I had envisioned a life alone so much and worked at being okay with it, (not happy about it!) that when I thought this new guy did not treat me well, even for a little bit, I had no problem telling him he could hit the door. He developed respect for me, and I for him. Our best selves started to show up and a happy relationship developed.
So now, we are engaged, but here is the deal. If he were to seriously cross my boundaries, cheat on me, betray me, I would have no problem telling him to go, married or not. Because I know I CAN LIVE WITHOUT HIM. (Not that I’d be happy about it!)
So that makes living with him sweeter. Plus, because he knows he can’t get sloppy, lazy or screw with me, he doesn’t take that all too *human* tendency as a way out of a problem. Plus, he is a good guy, but good guys can be assholes too if they are dating a woman without boundaries. Some of his exes would attest to him not being so wonderful, I’m sure.
I hope this helps somewhat and give you a bit of hope.
I just want to clap my hands like a maniac! Thank you Blaise for sharing. You rock!
Natalie,
That means the world to me, thanks so much. I’ve been meaning to email you but I’ll just tell you here where everyone can see:
Without your blog, I firmly believe I would not be getting married next summer.
We will be together two years this winter and I still read every article you post and when anxiety, fear and pain tried to take over me and sabotage this relationship, I came here and I read. Over and over until the feelings passed. I cried and I read.
So to those of you who are thinking, like I did, that once you meet a man, it will all be better, think again. It does not get better because of him, it gets better because you keep facing the demons and doing your work and telling the truth.
And Natalie is the best truth-teller I know. Natalie, seriously, you got a friend in me and don’t you forget it.
When your famous, I’m gonna say, I knew her when….
*hugs!*
“So to those of you who are thinking, like I did, that once you meet a man, it will all be better, think again. It does not get better because of him, it gets better because you keep facing the demons and doing your work and telling the truth.”
Now THAT’s something to cut out and put on my mirror! Loved your story, Blaise, and thanks for laying it out step by step.
Pretty soon there’s going to be only a tiny space left on my bathroom mirror — just enough for me to see my smile. So many wise words to copy/paste and print out in big, bold, sassy letters. 🙂
Hi Blaise, I’m clapping my hands like a maniac too. Congratulations on your upcoming marriage and congratulations for being okay even it it doesn’t happen. Thanks so much for your comment. It adds so much to Natalie’s original post and adds to my insights regarding my fear of rejection and/or abandonment.
“…if you believe you are simple NOT OKAY without a man and THERE IS NO HOPE then you will act from that deepest belief every time.” I’ve probably been operating from this belief which has kept me hanging on way, way past the shelf life of the relationship and kept me getting married and/or involved with a string of EU’s/AC’s/MM’s. Thank you for articulating it. And thank you Natalie for assisting me to getting to the point where I can hear it. I’m certain my expensive therapists said it but I may have not been ready to hear it. I’m trying to think back but I think this past 8 months is the first time since I was 14 I’ve not had some man in my life and I’m 52! None of them were keepers, as best I can remember, but I hung on as though there were no tomorrow without them. While I cried a river of tears in the first 3 months after the end of the affair with the ex MM, the last 5 months have been difficult but I have cried less than ever.
“So what I did was I played the “What if?” game. What if I ended up alone? What if I did not marry? What if I did not have children? What if he was not the one? Could I live, NOT HAVE TO BE HAPPY ABOUT IT, just live with it?” I think I may have subconsciously started playing this “What if” game in the last 5 months. You know, I think I’ll be okay. I know I’ll be a ton better than being a mistress while he waits for his 18 year old kid to grow up and then for his grandkids to grow up!
It is so nice to hear that others cry while reading these articles. I cry because I know it is true and I don’t want it to be. He does not care about me. No matter what he says, if he cared about me he would not do something that I very clearly told him hurts my feelings. He’s going to continue to think he’s a nice guy. He’s going to convince himself that he did nothing wrong and it was “all my fault”. And although I’m crying as I type this…that is okay. It can be all my fault. I’ll take the blame and I’ll move on knowing that he is the only one that got the short end of the stick. He lost me, and I’m awesome.
Ah Blaise. I’m so happy for you and so inspired by your determination and sense of self. I remember when you got together with him (congratulationssssssssss on getting married!) and what I really connected with you on your story, not just in your comments here, but over the time you’ve commented on BR, is that you have made a very conscious decision to quit the relationship insanity, to fight your fears and get out of an uncomfortable comfort zone. I too could easily have killed my relationship with the boyf with my own drama but I actually specifically remember sitting myself down one day and saying ENOUGH. I also made a promise and stuck to it, which really in itself taught me commitment. I’ve also admired that you’re straight shooter, no chaser – my kinda person. You comment occasionally but when you do, you deliver enormous value and perspective. And thank you for your ongoing support. (((((((hugs))))))))
All right ladies, I am starting a feelings diary right now and will join a swimming club this week. I’m a little concerned about the responsibility of a pet as it seems I can barely take care of myself, but will give it some thought.
Blaise, your words give me hope. I get a little bit of company after such a long dry spell and I just think OH GOD THIS IS MY LAST CHANCE!!!! You are so right. If anyone else has anything to share that worked for them, please do.
Blaise – I am trying to do what you said, that is, envision myself alone forever, and honestly, it is super scary and awful. I mean, yes, I could earn a living, have a fulfilling career, buy a house if I wanted to, even adopt a child or something, but… no-one to love me? No-one to hold me? No-one to prioritize me above all others? If I’m honest, that doesn’t sound like much of a life. And I’m sure those of you who are in fulfilling relationships can attest to the fact that it is much better than being alone.
I’m not sure what the difference is between being able to live with it but not be happy about it and just not being able to live with it. I mean, I’m sure I could technically live as in survive, but it would be a kind of unfortunate existence. Am I wrong? What do you think?
Jennifer, I think that because you are focused on the tunnel vision of your own mindset and agenda, you’ve missed the point of what Blaise said. She looked her fear in the eye but if you’ve actually read her comment, she’s 1) learned to love herself 2) isn’t alone and 3) is in a mutual relationship. Application.
What I’m reluctant for you to do, is replicate what you say you do in therapy – pour out, feel bad, imagine the worst and do nothing – here in the comments. I’m all for introspection Jennifer but it’s time to ask yourself that if you want these things that badly, what are you going to do about it?
There’s no point trying to identify people who are ‘like’ you – every single person who engages in unavailable relationships and continues in it as a pattern has some level of anxiety issues to lesser or greater extents. It is ruminating on fears and unhealthy beliefs that creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. It’s important also to recognise that a significant portion of people who go through this will not even call it anxiety – they will call it life, what they know, passion, excitement, whatever. Mislabeling until they listen to themselves and look at their experiences.
I had such a high level of anxiety at one point that I 1) had a panic attack that took nearly 3 weeks to recover from the after effects 2) had another panic attack where I had a headache that lasted for 4 days leaving me barely able to function and 3) I struggled with an immune system disease sarcoidosis which certainly showed physical symptoms of all of my secret stewing and hatefulness. I should be on steroids for life and barely able to walk – I’m alive and kicking and in remission for over for 5 years. I have never been to therapy although I know many people that benefit from it – I stopped pitying myself, I stopped making excuses, and I faced my fears and DID something.
You need to love you before anyone else is going to love you. How, are you going to have someone hold you when you go out of your way to derail after two dates? You don’t prioritise you above all others so why on earth would someone else?
Do you know what doesn’t sound like much of a life to me? The one you’re *living*. Now. I suggest that instead of worrying about something that hasn’t happened yet that you focus on addressing what’s happening and your pattern. What are you going to DO about YOUR life Jennifer?
Nat
So true: “Do you know what doesn’t sound like much of a life to me? The one you’re *living*. ”
I’ve been single for about five years now (I’ve stopped counting) and am happier than I’ve ever been. Why? Cos I don’t worry about shite anymore:
Where shall I live? I bought a flat
What will I live on when I retire? I bought a flat and sorted out my pension
What does x, y, z think of me? I don’t care what people think of me anymore
Why am I always broke? I sorted out my finances and got a proper job
Why do I keep getting depression and anxiety? I saw a counsellor, read this blog, exercise and eat properly.
What if I’m alone forever? I take care of my friendships and family. I’m not alone, I just don’t have a boyfriend/husband.
It’s a combination of doing what’s in my control and letting the rest go or trusting that it will come to me in good time.
Jennifer, you can be single and happy. In fact, you have to be before you can meet someone decent. Otherwise, you try to make every man you meet into The One, whilst getting stressed and nervous about it, thereby putting him off and putting yourself off too. No decent man wants to be a woman’s guarantee against loneliness, he wants to be liked him on his own merits. You have to bring more to a relationship than fear and need. I’m sure you DO have a lot to offer but you have to know what it is and believe in it.
You’re putting the cart before the horse. I’ll repeat what’s been said. You don’t find a good relationship and then become happy. You become happy and THEN find a good relationship. Or maybe you won’t but at least it’s better than living a half-life of anxiety.
Amen Grace! I’ve been single for 7 yrs… wow I haven’t counted that out in a while and it seems verrrrrrrry long?! I spent 6 of them trying to get a few different guys to love and commit to me. The last one I’ve spent happier than I’ve ever been… and single. Once I kicked my EUM habit and got some self esteem (the master key to all this) it didn’t take long for me to realize that I actually have an AMAZING life. And being single can be great fun when you realize that you are a great person and that in reality you don’t need a guy to complete you… I’ve got my shit together. If anyone is going to get a relationship from me you better be damn well worth it cuz otherwise, life is good just the way it is!
Nat – great new pic. And when I read the word “rejection” on this post I just knew it would speak to me. I took EVERY single EUM as a HUGE rejection of me as a woman. I wasn’t pretty enough, I wasn’t tall enough, they want someone more passive, more girly, bigger boobs… I mean you name it, I thought those were the reasons. And I would beat myself to death over how my friends were all getting so lucky and finding husbands… and really no one ever fell in love with me. And that old saying “I knew I was going to marry him/her the minute I met them; I just knew”… yeah, that doesn’t help either. Seems like any old EUM could “just know” and turn into the prince right? Wrong. It was me. I didn’t like myself. I had negative beliefs that spiraled worse and worse after every EUM. Eventually I just plain thought I wasn’t good enough. Man, what a joke. In reality I was too good for any of those time wasters and the important thing is that I see it and feel it NOW. Life will forever be great as far as I’m concerned… be it single, married, divorced. It all comes down to how you feel about yourself and what you do to take control of your life and make it a happy one.
Carrie, Grace, CC, and Blaise,
That’s why I love this blog, Natalie’s post are brilliant and provide the best therapy I’ve ever had. Then, there are the wonderful comments which provide more brilliant insights. CC, I took every AC, EUM, and MM’s unavailabilty as a rejection of me as a woman. I wasn’t blah, blah, blah enough. Like you, I’m starting to realize they weren’t anywhere near what I thought I wanted, not that I really know yet. Wahoo for you Carrie. You comments nailed me. I’ve been unavailable my whole life and pursued EU’s like they held the brass ring to my happiness. Grace, I’ve been thinking about your comment all day: “You don’t find a good relationship and then become happy. You become happy and THEN find a good relationship.” Thank you. The brass ring to my happiness lies with me, NOT a “HIM”.
Thank you all for your uplifting and truly thought provoking comments. It is freaking amazing to hear about how happy, self-assured, self-loving folks with self-esteem think and act. You are all such an inspiration. Jennifer, I hope you are doing okay.
Natalie, your pic radiates love, respect, and happiness. Simply gorgeous from the inside.
very powerful words here. I can definitely confirm that you don’t hear this kind of stuff in many types of therapy. it’s also very encouraging to read about people who have overcome issues with anxiety (esp around relationships), who found the inner strength and resolve to stick with a plan of *action*. I’ve bookmarked many posts on BR, the last few + their comments have really struck a big nerve, along with re-reading the books. from my understanding, a big part of successful psychological treatment of anxiety/OCD/phobia is behavior modification, desensitization, cognitive therapy — and includes all kinds of relaxation & self-care exercises. I think that’s what I’ve basically giving myself by reading Baggage Reclaim for the past 4 months. BR is sort of “CBT” for EU 🙂 — changing negative thinking and distorted thoughts by objectively examining facts, which then changes emotions positively. it takes time to change the pathways in the brain, but it does work! I feel more hopeful now about overcoming my ‘rejection sensitivity’, dating anxiety, special EUM/AC magnet super-powers, etc than I have in 10-15 years. it’s so fantastic to have a forum to examine these issues which focuses on the BR principles.
last time I took an extended break (5 years) from dating, I thought I had it all figured it out. I didn’t even come close! Life had more lessons for me, apparently, to get me to my *higher ground*. great new portrait, btw!
I have thought over what everyone has said and have realized that whether or not someone is a jerk/right for me will not necessarily show itself right away, and that it’s always necessary to give the dating experience some time to play out. No reason to get all upset right at the beginning. Some people are great at the beginning and then show their true colours, and some people take a little time to warm up to and then they’re great. No reason to get all bent out of shape about it; just when someone shows their true colours, react appropriately and don’t get so upset. If someone I go out with a bunch of times ends up being a jerk or unavailable or whatever, so be it. It doesn’t mean I was taken advantage of, because I didn’t end up in a long drawn-out situation with him, thank goodness! I would just have stuck around long enough to do my research and then get out of there once I knew what I had to know.
As Blaise said, it was hard when she first thought about being alone, and that is the reaction I had as well – that my mindset would have to completely change. Now that I have thought a little more about it, I realize that there are guys who will be right for me in the long run, as long as I learn to manage my anxiety and be at ease with who I am. I am generally actually fine after a few days, which I guess means NML’s anxiety was probably quite a lot worse than mine is. I basically just need to work on the initial gut reaction I have to dates that may/may not have gone badly, which is always very negative. I am working on it by keeping a feelings diary and giving myself pep talks when I get freaked out over the idea of being alone. Hopefully that is a start at least.
I have also been thinking today that the best way to think about relationships with men is the same way I think about relationships with women. Some women are really nice and friendly for a while but turn out to be unavailable as friends (i.e., they’re never free to meet up, never return calls, maybe only talk about themselves and never listen, etc.). Then I sometimes hear from them when it suits them, and I usually don’t go out of my way to make time for them. This is all fine, and I don’t tend to get upset about it.
On the other hand, some women who I meet turn out to be very available, and we form intimate friendships in which we each know the other person is there for us…
… and that is fine too! But it is not possible to know upon the first meeting, or the second, third, or fourth! It’s something that comes out with time and has to play out. No need to pursue a friendship for months if it isn’t working, but give it a chance to reveal whether it is genuine. There is no rush when someone is new in your life. And just as there will always be available friends, there will always be available men. It just takes some patience to find out who they are.
I see a lot of comments on here that don’t get responded to at length, I suppose because they aren’t as nuts or whiny as mine, but that reflect a lot of sadness and despair. I wanted to suggest this way of thinking (in terms of platonic friendship) because it has helped me a lot in the past few days. There are many people on here who overcame anxiety and other issues a relatively long time ago, including NML and Blaise, and they have great insight, but I find it can be useful to hear from someone who figured out something that helped get them through the immediate moment, because that is the first step. Though I am fortunate never to have suffered from a serious illness, there was a time in my life when I lost someone close to me, and though I remember that I was sad, at this later date the climactic moment of pain and desperation is hard to recall in its live form and I might tell someone who was feeling it to do something that may not have been possible in that particular moment. I suspect that anxiety, once overcome, can be similar. There is no need to be hard on yourself if you stress out over the dating process, just realize that relationships take time to reveal what they are and there is no rush.
Sorry for the long post – now that I had done some constructive thinking, I hoped to say something constructive.
Hi everyone,
great post Natalie – and great new pic. You look fab! It’s hard I think not to feel rejected when someone (or something) you care about turns you down. I have found it hard in the entrenched ex EUM relationship not to internalise what was effectively years and years of repeated ‘rejection’. The more rejection I suffered the less I expected to get from the relationship and more and more every crumb from him was like a feast in the desert for me (to quote Nat’s expression). I am convinced now that the key is to have strong self esteem and the ability to validate yourself. When I got that I pretty much had what I needed to solve my problem. I have more self confidence now than I’ve had for years – partly cos it’s no longer being relentlessly depleted and chipped away at!
I agree with Grace and CC and would say to Jennifer that a single woman is not half a person! And to see yourself as half a person, or a fraction of a person, waiting to be made into a whole one by a man is the crux of your problem I think, Jennifer – apart from anything else that kind of neediness is not attractive – and it’s not healthy; it’s like waiting for an opportunity to live your live vicariously through someone else – a man. Also, as Grace said, we need to bring something more to the table than an anxiety riddled desperation to bag a man so that our life can start. I also agree in that a man wants a woman who is already happy and fulfilled and confident, not one who is waiting for him to make her happy and fulfilled – that’s just giving him a big job to do and dumping a huge responsibility on to him. We are each of us a whole person in our own right and should not put ourselves and our lives on hold anxiously waiting for another human being to come along and make our life happen. It takes courage to take charge of your own life but it’s essential to get that courage or we run the risk of ending up in a codependent dysfunctional and even abusive situation with a man whom you are unable to leave because you can’t do your own life on your own. My mother always tells us, her children, that we are not responsible for anyone else’s happiness; a person’s happiness must come from within themselves and that we should never look to another person to *make* us happy.
@ Jennifer. Your not whiny or nuts at all. xx I know exactly what you mean, there are times when I need help. It confuses me when I read stuff that says, for example…unhealthy behaviours…then goes on without explaining what unhealthy behaviors are. The thing is I don’t know what unhealthy behaviors are because they are normal to me. Its hard to figure summit out when you don’t have a clue what your trying to figure out. If what you’re doing is normal to you…IE playing hard to get because from the get go that’s what Ive been told and shown what to do, then they get bored, then you go after them, and then it all starts again. how the hell do I know this is wrong. Its OK telling me its wrong, but not giving me any clear idea on how to change it. Learning to love myself is new. Ive only ever loved myself to look good for some one else. On my own, for myself I can barely get in the shower wash then dry my hair, let alone put make Its hard to know where to start. This stuff frys my brain at times to. I read your posts and I can absolutely understand the desperation. Please someone tell me what I’m doing that’s so bad. Ive been working and reading loads on Co-dependency blah blah and all NML stuff but it fries my mind. I booked into a see a Relate counsellor this week. I told her all about my work she nodded and said this OK, you need a new Road Map. You have all this stuff but now you need help putting all together. THANK GOD. Help is now here.
Nicola, I’m ‘bemused’ by the tone and content of your comment. Who has said what to you and where did you read this stuff? Are you referring to this site, commenters on this blog, a different site, people in the real world? Please clarify.
hey Jennifer. I think I understand where you’re coming from. I’ve never worked harder than last 12+ months to resolve relationship issues. I haven’t put myself “out there” again. reading your posts actually got me thinking about what it would be like. seeing things now w/much more clarity, would I be able to try dating w/o having that anxiety reaction? I honestly don’t know. when will I be so strong in self-esteem, -love, etc., and so free of my *Baggage* that I no longer need worry about anxiety if a guy doesn’t call? it took a lifetime to get here, not sure how pliable my brain is, despite 100% commitment now to changing the way it works. I guess I won’t know until the opportunity arises. I haven’t met or clicked w/age-appropriate men in the course of daily life for years, tried online dating, was never crazy about it. this last EUM was an old friend from college, 20+ yrs ago. we started truly as friends on facebook. one thing led to another, it was a big pursuit, for almost a year he was a total Prince. I actually was open w/him about anxiety issue, he always tried to help me feel OK. he won my trust. then overnight, he bailed and turned into a major Frog. which didn’t do great things for my already fragile heart.
I commend you for trying, being honest, and reaching out. I’m thinking just the act of consistently reading BR, the books, the NC emails, etc, is one of the best things to overcome the problem. I kept many journals/blogs/video-diary over the past year, b/c I was determined to get to the bottom of it this time. 6 months ago at the beginning of NC, there were many difficult times. at the worst moments, I came here to read, and usually within 15-20 minutes I’d feel way better.
without question, there are those who do need more aggressive help to get to a level where they can get the full benefit of everything here. I guess it’s important for each person to figure out what they need to get them to the healthiest possible place.
Blaise, that was truly awesome 🙂 Congratulations on your upcoming wedding and I wish you many happy and beautiful years together!!
I know that level of anxiety and panic, even from just a few dates. I started noticing it in early 30’s, after several painful heartbreaks in 20’s. I named it “PTBD”, post-traumatic-breakup-disorder. I too have tried to address it in therapy for many years, without success. it’s the reason I pretty much stopped dating at 40, I just could not handle putting myself out there. and… here I am at 46, that special someone did not come along. one of the hardest parts of it, is (for me) totally knowing on a rational level that it makes absolutely no sense to react that way, but not being able to control the anxiety. I really do feel that reading BR and NML’s books have made a huge difference in starting to change the underlying beliefs, more than anything else I’ve come across. I can’t imagine going on a date with someone right now. hopefully that will change, sooner rather than later.
Anoosh, thank you for helping me see that I am not alone. Has anyone else been through this, and has anything helped?
Jennifer, I have, which is why I said what I said.
I have had huge probs with anxiety; I probably always will have a degree of it. And of course it can all come down to where you are in your menstrual cycle as well, and also if you are getting older and feeling that clock ticking. It ain’t just in your head, girl.
The things that help me are:
1) TIME – the simple passage of time that you can’t fast-forward, and this is the hardest one to accept, so I’ve put it first on the list!
2) BE KIND TO YOURSELF. You are putting too much pressure on yourself and it’s taking the joy out of things. Nat is completely right; there are root causes here, possibly outside your relationships zone. Find them and start dealing with them, but in a kind way. Give yourself the kind of mothering perhaps you never had as a child. Be the kind of best friend you have always wanted.
The other things that help are the stuff you’ve planned already:
1) join a swimming club: fantastic idea. Get those endorphins going and start feeling good for a change!
2) volunteer for something. Anything. I find this really gets me out of my own head and my own problems, and I can think about other people.
3) Forget all about blokes for a few minutes – and when you’ve cleared your head, make a bucket list: all the stuff you’ve ever wanted to do, and haven’t yet done. [Hint: don’t put ‘get married’ on this list – very counter-productive]. This is just for you – not the things people have told you that you should do; the things that YOU genuinely want to do.
I did this recently, and I went and learned how to load and shoot a handgun. I overcame my fears, had a blazing good time, ended up burning through 100 rounds of live ammo, and flirted with the insanely chatty middle-aged chap who worked there.
Now when I get miserable, I go back to that moment, and in fact I find myself looking forward to my next session, when I’ll have a go at using a rifle …
Next, I am going to ask for a 30 minute flight in a Tiger Moth biplane for my 42nd birthday. It costs around $250 but I know enough people to get them all to chip in.
Chocks away! Don’t let your fears stop you from having a good time. A happy Jennifer is a sexy and attractive and confident Jennifer, so get happy first and then see what happens.
“I’m not sure what the difference is between being able to live with it but not be happy about it and just not being able to live with it. I mean, I’m sure I could technically live as in survive, but it would be a kind of unfortunate existence. ”
I think that most woman crave for love…but there is a difference between needing love in your life and wanting love. When you need someone, you depend on them to help you feel fulfilled. In other words, you are solely relying on them for you to be happy. And this will not attract the kind of love you want.
However, when you WANT love, you would like it in your life, but you wouldn’t solely depend on love to complete you. I think it’s a matter of your perspective in life. I also think you have a much better shot of ATTRACTING love when you’re in this mindset. Also, the past and future are just illusions. Focus on right now and because all you DO have is … right now:)
Nicola, you sound awesome and I hope you see that in yourself!
I guess with me, the thought of my ex being a tosser made me feel worse for spending so long with him. Our meeting showed me he’s not a tosser really, he just hasn’t got anything to offer of any real substance (no pun intended!). I’m certainly not going to feel bad for not choosing to live a half life and wondering what I could be missing out on.
Flip-flops? Really?! The words ‘nail’ and ‘coffin’ spring to mind! Live your life girl! Don’t be defined by a chemically enhanced, flip-flop wearing half-man.
And HURRAH for your achievements. Xx
Thanks Sarah,
It comes to a point that you have to start laughing at your own exploits. When I read my journal, honestly I go into hysterics…because its like…SAY WHAT? Christ alive did I really put up with that? Its great to be back to who I am, a place where I can totally LOL at this AC. Ive been living a half life for over 4 years. I love this site, I know I should’nt lol but sometimes when I read the exploits of some of these blokes we tend to get involved with it does make me lol. I promise anyone out there you will get through this and see the funny side at some point. Sending you all love because believe me the Sun does begin to shine at some point. xxxxx
“The two easiest ways to avoid rejection in relationships – don’t have any relationships or get involved with someone who offers the least likely prospect of commitment or a relationship – it’s ‘safe rejection’ but both still wind up being self-rejection.”
So so true. I’ve spent a lot of my dating life avoiding serious relationships, afraid of jumping into relationships with quality men out of a fear of getting hurt or humiliated. In a strange way, I always felt safer with less than trustworthy men because at least I knew what to expect from them. Even though it hurts when one of them disappointed me, if I’m being honest with myself, I could say that most of the time I could see it coming. But it would have hurt me far more if I actually trusted them and got hurt. In the end it all hurts, but it’s better the devil you know I guess…
But even when I had a good man on my hands, I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop, always waiting for their “true” colors to finally show. Eventually I would realize that the bad side I had been waiting for did not exist, but by then I had alienated them so badly that they then felt rejected by me. Realizing how horrible I was being to the good ones, I was caught between not wanting to deal with the losers and wanting to be with the good ones, but not feeling as though I deserved them. So instead of being hurt or hurting others, I just preferred to be alone as I thought that would forever be my fate. As sad as it is to say, subconsciously I don’t think I believed that men were trustworthy. 25 years of negative thoughts were in serious need of reprogramming. Having an inconsistent mostly absentee, deadbeat father taught me that men were not trustworthy, and the ones that were I didn’t feel like I deserved, so that’s the way I viewed men and my relation to them.
An experience with one man in particular finally gave me the epiphany that I needed. I let him jerk me around for a few years, excusing his poor behavior. But one day he crossed the line and no matter how hard I tried, I could not find any excuse in my brain that would justify how he treated me and I just snapped on him. But if I was being honest, he was always that person. He was never going to be able to have the relationship that I wanted. It was then that I realized this: I deserved more than I was allowing myself to have, I had to do better by myself to appreciate myself so I would be capable of appreciating the good things when they do come my way. I think once we realize that we deserve more and that we get to determine the reach of our own happiness, we figure out that relationships with incapable people are really just a waste of our time.
@ Jennifer…again.
I forgot to mention that, Ive seen alot of Assclownery behaviour in my time and been complicit in it. But thinking about Date Man further….saying he has stuff on etc, is a prime example of a guy setting the Status Quo. Now you have choices here Jennifer A) accept that he has lot on etc see it for what it is Setting the Status Quo. B)hear that he has alot on, not compute it, think awww the poor souls got alot on he just needs my understanding, maybe I should sit here wringing my hands hoping Im worth it, if we I hook up maybe that will help etc etc…and here we go around the merry go round. There will possibly be always something on! Make a choice, hopefully the right choice babe, your questioning your gut. But make sure the your one doing the rejecting. Your thoughts ladies.
Thanks Nicola, I really think you are quite right. And I really hope you are rid of drug addict loser man once and for all. 🙂
Lia
Actually, being hurt by a trustworthy person hurts less. They don’t jerk you around, they don’t blow hot and cold, they don’t lie to you, they don’t insult you, hit you, cheat on you etc. They will tell you no in a fairly straightforward manner then leave you alone. It hurts a bit (maybe a few days/weeks/possibly a few months). With some of my breakups, I only cried for about a week. It’s nothing like the ding-a-ling, jerking around, now he’s here now he’s gone, booty call downgrade for months/years of a man who doesn’t know his behind from his elbow.
That’s my experience anway
Booty call downgrade…that’s classic
You’re right, when I’ve been “hurt” by a trustworthy person, it doesn’t really feel all that painful. But I always feared that it would be more painful, it took me actually engaging in relationships with them for me to figure that out. It feels great when you’re dealing with someone who actually holds their self accountable and actually cares about your feelings.
Lia, what you’ve described is a classic example of unavailable relationships, the beliefs, and the self-fulfilling prophecy. By losing the limited beliefs which have you having limited relationships with limited men so that you can limit the vulnerability, you open up a whole new world.
Lia,
Your comment really struck a chord. My EUW told me about all the bad guys she dated (the guy that held held her down when he was angry, the cokehead who tried to get her to use drugs, the cheating bad boy). Because of those experiences I thought she would value me. Wrong! I wasn’t the first nice guy she confused and alienated, and I won’t be the last. It is up to the EU to break the cycle or not; there is nothing I can do about it.
My heart hurt a little when I read your comment, as I know that I’ve left a good number of men in my past confused and/or frustrated, and hurt. I’ve run into a few of them afterwards, and I can tell you that I felt extremely embarrassed by the way that I had treated them and it was hard to face them, but I also operate with a conscience. If this woman that you speak of does too, or ever gains one, she’ll realize what she did to you too. But no, there is nothing that you could have done to change what happened, she was not in a position to where she could value anything you had to offer. She more than likely didn’t value herself enough to realize that she deserved any of it. So glad you moved on…
Lia, you have described me to a T!. I’ve known this on a rational level for years but feeling worthy is a major struggle – since I was tortured by a psychopathic mother and not protected by my father for my entire childhood, I don’t have much hope of ever gaining the self-love I need. (I appreciate all the fantastic advice that people/therapists/etc. have to give, but with Complex PTSD it mostly useless). I have just stopped dating the less-thens, that’s all I can do for now. Thanks for sharing with so much honesty and succinctly describing the low self-esteem dating game we both play :).
You know, one of my favorite movies, even as an adult, is Disney’s The Lion King. And my favorite part is actually this scene in which Mufasa manifests from the clouds and talks to Simba. Mufasa tells Simba: “You are more than what you have become… Remember who you are”. Leave it to me to learn a life lesson from a Disney movie LOL, but one day I was watching it, and those words literally sent chills through my body, it was like they were meant for me. I feel like a lot of my dating life was spent settling for less, just barely getting by. It didn’t matter how many people told me before, I had to learn the lesson on my own to figure out that I owed myself more than what I was allowing myself to have. And not unlike the lion young in the movie, I realized that I had been in fear of facing myself and my past, but inadvertently I was holding myself in it. I needed to deal with the hurt and pain from the past in order to get out of life what I truly wanted. No matter how I lived my life, I could never run away from that little voice in the back of my head that kept telling me that. The difference between now and then is that I hear it loud and clear. I’ve never been very good at lying to myself, I can’t run away from who I am, and I know that I am a person who wants and deserves to be loved. It just took a little while for me to realize that…It is my hope that you’ll continue to seek out self love as well, every day is a work in progress, don’t forget that. And don’t give up, I have hope for you.
Very insightful post! (as usual) Especially the part about how rejection and abandonment are so often confused, and not everything is about us. I learned this lesson hard and early, and as awful as it was at the time, I’m glad I did. As a teenager I didn’t feel very attractive, but I soon realized that some guys did like my unconventional look and personality. So at some point I decided that it’s okay if not everyone likes me, because I know that some do. And I don’t need every guy- I just need one!
“As a teenager I didn’t feel very attractive, but I soon realized that some guys did like my unconventional look and personality. So at some point I decided that it’s okay if not everyone likes me, because I know that some do. And I don’t need every guy- I just need one!” very well said!
Also realized today I feel rejected pretty damn easily. I had a sort-of interview with someone today who likes me so much she basically just brought me in to tell me how much she’d pay me to do some work for her; I didn’t have to show her a CV or portfolio or anything. I said a couple of things that I felt embarrassed myself and so I STILL left that meeting feeling like a stupid dufus.
I also recently was called at home and handed the biggest review of my career: new book of a world famous guy. I lasted about four hours before I was like: is he giving it to me because I cost less than big name reviewers??
And to make it a nice set of three: I’m being considered for a job at a small local university. I busted my ass for the interview. Now that they want me, I’m all like: man, aren’t I better than a small university?
Reject myself much? Argh!!! Talk about tying my own sense of valuation/rejection of myself to other people’s valuation of me. Maybe I’m an N.
Mainly of course I am happy about these developments and attribute them to the assertiveness I’m developing along with self-esteem.
Nonetheless, this week’s mantra has been: just because they aren’t rejecting me, and in fact are welcoming my advances, does not mean they are stupid / small potatoes / slumming.
Mag, Mag, Mag, I’m shaking my head here. You’ve achieved so much, don’t doubt it! It’s so true – never mind the men making us feel bad, we do it to ourselves.
Hi there grace, Natalie and all:
This has been a great post for helping me notice self-sabotaging habits. As I wrote the story about the childhood experiences, I could feel the story itself “getting tired.” Something about telling it to justify my anxiety isn’t working anymore. My history of having to overcome their old messages is true, but – it’s very strange – as I begin to genuinely overcome them, the story of their hold on me stops being ‘true.’ I can’t blame current events on that old hurdle. Now it’s a habit to overcome. I appreciate Natalie framing it in terms of my identity. It’s quite disorienting, but exciting, to be breaking out of the very stories that have been my identity.
Same with the self-deprecating stuff around my achievements. Again, writing them out here – for what? – fishing for support? I did have those thoughts that cut into my moment, but … it also felt like it wasn’t working; and I felt manipulative, almost, reading Grace’s response (thank you, Grace). When my advisor responded lukewarmly to my news of the review, both myself and my friend remarked on the inappropriateness.
I thought, huh, THAT is what I have been doing to myself all my life: being all *meh, whatever* about the good parts of me and others’ votes of confidence.
Self-indifference can be a sneaky form of self-rejection.
I have put myself down to try to control people’s perceived hostility, secretly feeling superior and deserving of praise. Lately I feel freer to achieve “in front of people”. Freer to care about my goals, to totally eff up in front of people, and to let go of soliciting support and attention through poses of victimhood.
It feels like I risk a lot of hate, jealousy and resentment coming my way if I start to identify with success. It’s the classic move of the woman who calls herself stupid before anyone else does. But – as this post reminds – I can’t keep rejecting myself just to avoid others’ rejection. If I do, I’m still getting rejected.
Onward!!
I like that “…I cant keep rejecting myself to avoid others rejection. If I do, Im still being rejected..” that really struck a nerve. I do this all the time, hence why Im on lock down for a year to work out some MY AC behaviour. I feel like a toddler learning how to live from scratch.
A-mazing. You are just amazing. It’s like you know me and this could not have come at a more perfect time… There was I, wallowing in my own self pity because I felt I wasn’t good enough, even after 4 months broken up, and when I know he’s already dating someone else ‘cooler, fitter and who’s more into sports’.
Thank you for the wake up call. It’s time to splash water on my face, to get a grip and to start looking out for number one.
Katherine, New Zealand
“Thank you for the wake up call. It’s time to splash water on my face, to get a grip and to start looking out for number one. ” Yay Katherine! Good for you!
@ Jennifer
How do you suss a guy is available after 2 dates ??
Way too invested !!!
Too busy / swamped at work ….no one is ” too busy ” to make room in their lives for things or people that are important.
It sounds like a brush off ….but don’t sweat the small stuff ….it was 2 dates !
Take care.
I think the key here is though that it’s not about being ‘important’ – they’ve just met. I’ll put it this way – Jennifer, you’ll know if it’s a brush off if he doesn’t follow up with making a date in the next few days up to a week after the last date. Don’t sit around waiting for the call and get on with your life!
Brilliant! I think this post, along with the ones about self esteem and jedi mind tricks, have had a huge effect on me.
Being told no is a part of life and not a rejection. People not doing what you want is just them doing their own thing. The control freak in me really needs to hear this!
Also, i think my main fear in my current relationship is of rejection. There is absolutely no evidence of this and things are great with the boyfriend, it’s just my own imagination running riot. Articles like this show me that i need to chill out and stop trying to make people think and do as i want them to. I would hate it if someone constantly berated me for doing my own thing.
Minky, fear means it’s not happening. If it was, you’d be doing something about it. Exhale and enjoy your relationship. PS You are on my very long list of mails. I will try to do it before I head off next week!
Minks, I am with you. But also remember that you’ve dealt with rejection before, and from a trickster, no less, and you got through. If new guy rejected you or decided for whatever reason to end things – very unlikely and essentially not worth thinking about – then it wouldn’t be a pull-the-rug thing. In any case, this guy sounds solid – so enjoy the relationship, and give him the right to do his thing (including ending it), just as you have the same rights. (I am saying this to me too!)
Too true Elle. My bloke is the guy who (years ago) ended a mutally agreed casual-fling because he realised the girl felt more strongly than he did. No flip-flapping, no yoyo-ing – a clean break. And I am the woman who has survived a control freak AC and a using twat of an EUM – and i absolutely loved being single. I think things will be fine :).
It has been a couple of days since i read this article and i can honestly say the internal change has been miraculous. I am so much better at defining ‘doing own thing’ behaviour with ‘being inconsiderate’, not just with my boyfriend but with friends, and partners of friends, alike. I just advised a good friend whose bloke has been playing a new computer game for a couple of days (men!), while being in touch and still arranging to meet up, that she should chill out and not perceive it as a rejection. Me! Telling people to chill out! Me! Who would have though!? 🙂
This is just what i needed to read Natalie, having in the same week had a new guy go quiet on me after two really good dates, and had my ex boyfriend (‘love of my life?) contact me for some help with his teenage daughter, only for the contact to turn into a discussion about ‘us’ (i still had unanswered questions over a year later) and for him to confirm that he had loved me but ‘not enough’ and didn’t want the ‘family life’ with me! Well I was feeling very very rejected and sorry for myself! I look at both these guys with fresh eyes today, and see similar traits of ‘Mr. unavailable’…thanks for the words of wisdom as always and dragging me back into the real world xx
elsiewondercat (love the name) – Don’t take any more of his calls. You’re not his armchair psychologist or his girlfriend. Piss taker!
My recent ex was unavailable. The way he acted wouldn’t sit well with any available women. I broke it off with him. What anoys me about it was that he speed things up in the beginning when I was taking it slow. It felt a little uncomfortable but I went along to see before breaking it off. I know I d the right thing. Our closure conversation consisted of him admitting his behavior displayed his unavailability but yet he still liked me and was serious. I said to him that he wasn’t because of his actions. And I asked him to admit he wasn’t feeling me In the same way. Now when I asked that I totally would of accepted him saying he wasn’t available for the type of commitment I wanted and be done he said nothing. this really Bugs me and I’ve stepped up mountains in terms of dealing with negative stiff since but every now an then that nagging thought says why couldn’t he just admit it? Even my ex eum can. My conclusion is that he
Can’t be honest with him self he ain’t going to be honest with Me.
NK, let me give you a piece of advice that will hopefully spare you many more man hours – You see how many people go before the courts each and every day around the world, accused of stuff that are found guilty and yet they never actually out and out say the words and admit what they’ve done? Have you watched Judge Judy recently?
Stop trying to force him to say what he doesn’t want to say. You’re a grown woman that can figure it out for yourself – you already have. You don’t need him to validate the fact that he’s unavailable. It’s like going to a man that beats you and saying ‘Admit that you’re an abusive asshole’. He-llo! You already know he’s unavailable, the decision is already made. If he wants to live in LaLa Land telling himself whatever he wants to, that’s his prerogative. You’re not the boss of him. You can’t open up his brain and remove any association with you or force in a program that says “Greetings commander! Must go to NK right now and tell her that I’m unavailable”. Let it go!
I LOVE ‘Judge Judy’; it’s so therapeutic. Anyone who thinks a relationship will solve all their problems should watch that show and see just how many women have gotten themselves screwed over by shitheels.
My other favourite program is ‘Four Weddings’, which we have in Australia – don’t know if you have a UK or US equivalent? Four couples (translation – four insanely competitive Bridezillas) compete to see who can have the ‘best’ wedding. It’s hysterically trashy, and it really helps to cure my wedding/marriage blues.
What a brilliant article.
I recently ended a relationship that was just absolutely bonkers … rejection is what kept me in it lot longer than I should have. I viewed his regular rejections of me as a challenge almost …. he once viewed me as interesting, desirable, compelling and would contact me frequently by any means possible when we weren’t together (at the beginning) … then he changed … he seemed miserable in my presence, avoidant, overly critical of my every move and would reject my affections frequently (sometimes even during!!! :O). I stayed in the relationship because I wanted the ‘old’ him back. I was convinced that somehow I was doing something wrong to cause the change and he convinced me I was doing something wrong (I suffer from clinical depression, he told me it was bringing him down and told me his behavior change was because of this, called things like a freak or psycho). It eroded my confidence and made me feel ashamed of my illness. It was holding me back from recovery.
Eventually I just realized that by allowing him to treat me like that and to allow his frequent rejections of me I was rejecting myself … I just was trying to avoid the inevitable.
I also realize now that there’s nothing I can do to make someone change their personality and the way they relate to people.
You can’t make someone into an AC or EUM.
Extracting onself against one’s own feelings is extremely difficult. I think they call this ‘being clingy’ in dating parlance…
I’m going on a 1st date tonight with a man I’ve been communicating with from a dating website. We have emailed, and have had a few telephone conversations – of which, I HAVE NOTED A COUPLE Defensive/Odd remarks from him. We are taking separate cars and going to a restaurant -all very safe., and I am actually looking forward to this date.
I will pay attention while on this date, and not be fooled by his accomplishments – he is an author and published several books, he is a Ph.D., has travelled, etc. I will remember that I am a very good and successful woman, and will not have to ‘settle for’ or ‘fix up’ any new person that I allow into my life. AND that communication is important to me and I wont waste time with an under-par communicator!…. which is probably at least CODE AMBER for other things lurking.
I will be ready to Reject Him… politely and quickly, and might know after this very first date whether I will proceed! Thanks Natalie!
BRILLIANT, AngelFace – atta girl!
When someone likes me or sees potential in me, I feel like I am on thin ice. Yet one someone sees me as flawed I am super, super affected and internalize it. I am easily derailed. I guess at the core is my own belief I am flawed. I was humiliated as a child too, and although I know it was a childhood experience, I still revert to the child being humiliated when I feel rejected as an adult. I can’t believe people might see something else in me, something good. When I get complimented, I always tsk tsk it and put myself down, or down play it as a response because I am uncomfortable, instead of just smiling and saying thank you. I feel rejected very easily, I think because I expect it on some level. Ironically, I am accomplished in my life, feel capable, and have achieved things in my life that people call very admirable. I still seek approval and crump when I don’t get it. The approval I do get, I question.
Rejection is painful and trying to be ahead of it all the time by being unavailable, hooking up with unavailables, or by downplaying the interest of a potentially available doesn’t avoid it. You guarantee it. My last guy (if honest, many of my ex’s) told me I was not very expressive and didn’t make him feel like I wanted him around. I keep my feelings on a leash until I feel rejected, then the emotion pours out of my like hot lava. I am not good at showing someone I care about them (risking rejection?) but am good at telling them how they disappointed me (rejecting them). The last guy was no prince, but I am able to look at my own behavior pattern of self protection and how being so guarded doesn’t prevent rejection and in some cases causes it. People give up you if they have to prove themselves over and over again because you don’t believe that they can care about you. Shady people continue to disappoint you and it becomes unhealthy validation when they don’t give up on you, but they don’t actually step up to the plate either. Not expecting respect or love when you approach situations and relationships is expecting rejection. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy and rejecting your own value in life. I do this, in almost every relationship.
Preach! LOL, but seriously these thoughts are so familiar it’s almost scary! Gotten a lot better at it, but I’ve always had a hard time accepting compliments and have a tendency to strive towards perfection in order to avoid criticism…thought I was just keeping myself humble but what I was really doing was underestimating myself and holding myself to unrealistic expectations at the same time…but the flip side to that is that I used to seldom give out compliments but I wouldn’t criticize others unless I absolutely had to, and even then I would mince words…
I have had conversations with exes that told me that they felt as though I was indifferent to them when in actuality I was quite fond of them. But I never expressed myself to them, not positively at least. At the time I didn’t realize it, but these people honestly never knew that I genuinely cared for them, I might not have been in love with them, but they definitely had pieces of my heart…I was overprotective of my heart with people who I should have trusted it with. And those who I couldn’t trust I kept around because they fulfilled beliefs that I held about myself…
“The last guy was no prince, but I am able to look at my own behavior pattern of self protection and how being so guarded doesn’t prevent rejection and in some cases causes it. People give up you if they have to prove themselves over and over again because you don’t believe that they can care about you.” That is so true, eventually it becomes a drain, especially if you know that you or that person has the actions to go with the words…the last EUM has yet, to this day, to truly express himself to me. His words very rarely matched his actions for whatever reason, but I’m not waiting for him anymore. It’s like you said, eventually a person gets tired of trying to prove themselves to someone. And I know that outside of signing it in blood, there was absolutely nothing else I could have done to “prove” my love for him. Oddly enough, he told me that he always thought that I deserved better than him and that he was waiting for the day that I would see it. And the women before me were not good to him at all, so perhaps it was his self fulfilling prophecy coming to pass by keeping me at a distance… I’m never gonna know whether or not that’s actually true, but you are indeed correct. When you put in an order…
Thanks for your posts Lia. As a self-aware EUW you really help me understand the thoughts of my ex.
This is now the second bang on description of me in the comments. Exactly! You’re not alone – not much of a consolation I know, but thanks so much for sharing.
The lesson I learned after my ex-AC break-up and the rejection dance that ensued was that in reality – it’s not about YOU. Once I could separate myself from his actions, it made it not personal. It took a while and a lot of work, but thank God I’m here. I can now suck it and see on FBook and the only internal response I get from his photo is, this person is a stranger to me. Rejection truly is God’s protection.
I have a couple of friends going through it right now, and while I can empathize with their pain, I truly think it’s something we have to go through in order to come out the other side with a healthier perspective on ourselves and relationships. I believe that challenges like these make us stronger and are necessary for our growth. I read somewhere that “Ego enemies are friends of our true self”, and I really believe that going through what I went through, meaning the complete dismantling of my ego, has helped me get closer to my true self. It doesn’t happen over night, and I have slip-ups now and then, but time, no-contact, therapy, and this website have all helped me get to the other side. Best of luck to everyone “going through it”. You can do it!
I’ve been visiting the site often and this was a good post for me today. I definitely struggle with rejection and my first (yes, I made it to 36) experience with an EUM has me in a tailspin. I recognized it pretty early and being me confronted it. I told him that I couldn’t be angry at him for not feeling the way I wanted him to feel but I could/would be very angry and upset if he treated me poorly. This was after being blown off a few times. Silly me believed him when he assured me he wasn’t trying to blow me off. Turns out he was “talking out of his bum”. Although he promised me he would be upfront with me when he wanted out, we went from having a great date to him not acknowledging my existence (we work together) overnight. I have spent too much time wondering why he didn’t just tell me it wasn’t working for him and I’ve realized that of course it is working for him. I stroke his ego and give him company and pretty much accept not getting anything in return.
So, this is it. Though I’m tempted to call him and ask him why he started acting like a FNAH (my friend’s name for him. FNutAHole, I’m sure you can fill in the rest), I realize it is pointless because he’ll just tell me what he thinks I want to hear so he can gone on feeling like he’s been open and honest with me, blah blah blah.
Now I just have to stick to my guns. Easier said than done.
Exactly!
Once I stopped rejecting myself, accepting it was easier to let go of.
Not everything works, as you said, and I KNEW I didn’t want someone who wasn’t there for me the way I wanted to be there for him.
As compared to hoping he’d want me the way I wanted him and hanging on to that fantasy.
I like myself more.
By not rejecting myself and by valuing myself, rejection from someone else is not as overwhelming.
This is something I have struggled with all my life; I take it all very, very hard. It causes me an extreme amount of pain.
My last relationship was one of the ones that caused me the most awful feelings of rejection but somehow on this occasion I found my own way and learnt the lessons I needed to.
I dealt with abandonment issues and learnt so many things about myself. Why should I allow others to define me? I know who I am. And why should I especially allow men and friends who behave badly to define me?
They just were not that special to begin with and what I didn’t realise was I was still dealing with painful childhood abandonment issues which caused me to pick people who would do the same.
If I look back at my relationships and each one came back, begging…. I can honestly say I would not take on the offer, in fact I couldn’t really even be their friends.
They all came into my life to teach me something about myself, that’s it. Each day is a learning experience for me because I’m choosing to live my life differently, it can be hard but its worth it.
ICanDoBetter- You just described my family aswell, I’m not kidding. If I call them out on it, my mum makes me apologize. They think that you have to be married just to leave home. It’s like are we living in 2011 or 1950? I don’t want to be 30 and still living at home, just coz ” you have to be married to do anything”. Who wants to marry an adult who still lives at home?
ICanDoBetter- You just described my family aswell, I’m not kidding. If I call them out on it, my mum makes me apologize. They think that you have to be married just to leave home. It’s like are we living in 2011 or 1950? I don’t want to be 30 and still living at home, just coz ” you have to be married to do anything”. Who wants to marry an adult who still lives at home? And they wonder why I want to rebel.
I love it! This makes so much sense to me. I’ve always been a, ‘oh, it just didn’t work out’ kinda person, but this really makes me understand my friends who always feel the rejection so keenly much more. I’m going to start explaining it in these terms to them, so if we can’t convert a few more people to your own brand of sanity!
I’ve subscribed to your blog, and the NC newsletter, and have been reading you for about two months now. So much of what you say hits home hard with me. But this blog is EXACTLY what I needed to hear. I don’t know why it takes so many different ways of saying the same things. But tonight you rang true, and got through like never before. I will read these words over and over again until I let go.
“Instead of feeling crap about everything you didn’t get that you think you were entitled to – remember who they were and why it’s over. If there’s some good in there, great, but if what you’re mourning is the loss of what didn’t happen, don’t ‘waste’ your life by devoting it to taking up pain and rejection solitude as a vocation.”
This has been me, in a nutshell. And I’m so tired of it. Thank you for your words! You’ve helped me through (yet another) difficult time. But this time, there may truly be a light at the end.
This comes at exactly the right time–recently on holiday I met someone great and had a by-the-book holiday romance, complete with romantic moments and lots of sweet things said. While I was there I went off him and felt uncomfortable so I pushed him off me and pushed him away from me. It’s only when getting back home I realised how stupid I was in doing so. I’m still young and I’ve had my share of ACs and EUMs, while so far away this guy was much much better. He hasn’t replied to me for 2 weeks and I think it’s time to stop waiting but I regret my past actions and not seriously talking to him about relationships/treated him well. 🙁 He was surprised that I apologised for my behaviour then but was distant, no doubt because of us being on other sides of the world again! I’ve been stupidly rehashing everything and feeling very rejected, which is silly. I guess I’ll be using BR more and more.
Daisy
This was never going anywhere, it was just a holiday fling.
No wonder he was suprised you apologised.
I wouldn’t waste any more time thinking about this.
Daisy,
I agree! He lives on the other side of the world. It would never work!
Daisy, don’t feel rejected! This reminds me of this terrible reality show that MTV had a few years ago (terrible = I never missed an episode) about a group of 20-somethings that worked at a resort in Hawaii. The guys on it made a system out of bedding girls that were staying at this resort and yapped on and on about how it was fantastic because they’d never see them again. Those girls weren’t getting rejected – it just was what it was. It’s easy to be super-romantic and sweet when you know that the person is leaving and you won’t have to actually live up to any of that romance in the real world. Hope this helps!
I think it’s hugely important how the ending of a relationship is conveyed , it can make a world of difference. I recently experienced finding out from an EUM passive agressive AC ( Yes I won the trifecta in him) who has stuffed me around for years,with his off and on again routine , well he realised ( yeah right ) he “shouldn’t be in a relationship yet again.I wasn’t overly surprised by him doing this again. What I found really painful , was that he sent me this via an email.Had he have had the respect to phone or express it face to face, it would have been disappointing for sure , but no where near as hurtful as what I found it to be, receiving exactly the same words via an email. The shallow creep did do me an unintended favor though , as it made me finally realise he just ” aint that good ” no way worthy of me , my time, my effort, my affection and energy.
Absolutely, Nat, competing for a man’s attention is a sure fire way to set a woman up for major stress and inner turmoil. And peace of mind is impossible. And who wants to be second best and play second fiddle to another woman? And with kids involved, the other woman is far down in the pecking order.
Hey Nat – Nice new pic and layout!
Woohoo – epiphany! I just realized that I’ve been the Emotionally Unavailable one my entire life in terms of guys I’ve thought I wanted. I’m the one who has always wanted guys (or boys) who were obviously not right for me and yet I’d still go after it.. because I didn’t think I deserved any better. And when they weren’t who I wanted them to be, I would just chase harder because the drama (in most cases) allowed the focus to be on them so I couldn’t look too hard at myself. I’ve fallen for guys way too young for me, a married guy, a couple guys who lived halfway across the country, oh yah and the oh-so-EU narcissist and though I’ve only had 2 serious relationships, all those “crushes” were SO wrong for me in so many ways. Even my ex-husband who loved me so much more than I ever loved him, I martyred myself by staying with him way past our expiration date. I thought it was to spare his feelings, but really it was to keep from pushing myself to do what was best for me. I didn’t know what was best for me, but I certainly wasn’t in any rush to find out and his or other guys’ issues kept me from dealing with my own. I certainly didn’t feel I deserved a good healthy relationship, I didn’t love myself enough to even know to want it. It’s amazing how much I’ve started learning about myself.. just freakin amazing.
Carrie,
I can totally relate.
I wish I could send your thoughts to a friend but, she is not ready for BR. I’ve tried.
All the best!
Thanks Allison 🙂 I’m a total codependent so I definitely know the feeling of “knowing what’s best” for someone and wanting sooo bad to show them! But as we’ve read so many times on here, you can’t tell anyone anything, it’s up to them to know already or seek out the truth themselves and that goes for friends as well. All you can do is offer advice ONLY if they ask for it and even if they’re venting like mad, if they don’t ask all you can do is be a listening ear. Your friend will have to find her own way just as we all have.
Hey guys, I really need some support right now. It’s been one week since the MM ended our relationship and miserable doesn’t even begin to describe how I feel. I went NC for 5 days until we had an all-day meeting together at work and he approached me in the parking lot. Throughout the day he’d been giving me sad looks and I had to take bathroom breaks so I didn’t cry in front of my boss, but the end of the day did me in.
He asked me how I was doing (awful) and told me how sorry he was, how he’s not happy at all. He said his feelings for me will never change and no matter what decision he made, he wouldn’t be happy: if he chose me, he’d be “abandoning his children when they needed him most”, but he also hates living without “us”. Like a fool I told him that I hoped, if he ever changed his mind, he’d come back to me and he said that no matter where I was, he would…but right now, he’s still at home with his family and I’m sobbing on the couch writing this.
I’ve been crying uncontrollably for a week…I can’t eat, I can’t see my friends, I even work in a conference room alone so I can cry without anyone seeing. Despite how much of this blog I’ve read and what my therapist tells me, I want him back and can’t shake this pain – in fact, it seems to get worse every day.
I know everyone says I’ll get through this with time but it doesn’t feel that way. I feel crushed and I feel like I lost the love of my life. Seeing him at work is killing me, not talking to him is killing me, and talking to him is killing me. I feel like I can hardly function. How do I know I’m going to get over him? How do I know I won’t feel this pain forever?
Bri, 4 words: it’s been a week.
I could understand if you said all this and a year or two had passed, but it’s been a week, you work with him AND you’ve already engage with him. What did you expect? You’ve just spent six years in a faux relationship with a married man with three kids, two of whom are disabled, who talked out of his arse, pontificated about what he’d like to do, slagged off his wife, and essentially future faked and delivered nothing.
You have spent ONE week in ‘suffering’ and are saying you can’t take it and are asking if it will last forever. Why, were you never asking this question during your SIX years?
The feeling doesn’t last forever or even for months and years on end – you’ll discover that if you stop being a one week thinker. It’s supposed to hurt – that’s why it’s called a breakup.
Correction two years. I was mixing you up with Adrienne. Two years vs a week anyway.
Nat
Your mix up says something – Bri, I know this situation feels very special and unique to you – but it’s really not. There’ve been so MANY women here who’ve heard exactly the same words from MMs as you and have felt the same as you, me included. Yep, we all thought we wouldn’t get over it either. So sometimes we get the details confused.
YOU are special and unique. Your affair isn’t. Don’t get it mixed up. You don’t need this affair to “work out” to be a special person, you already are.
And even if you were an everyday, ordinary kinda girl (nothing wrong with that) you’d still deserve an everyday, ordinary kinda guy just for you. Not someone who creeps around in parking lots to stick it to you after work.
Hi Bri,
The pain won’t last forever. You seem young: I hope you won’t be like I was in my early twenties. When I dealt with my first shock from a lying guy, I obsessed for *more than a year* over why he wasn’t interested in me. My main focus was on how close he’d gotten to me (as in, he saw the “real” me!) and how could he leave me after that kind of closeness?
I thought you’d said it was two years and I hope to heck that’s right but even two days is two, too, too, long with a MM. Nat’s point is the same: you’ve invested a significant portion of your life in something that was never going to pay off for you the way you wanted. It’s going to hurt. If he wants to pull sad faces at you, whatever: he’s left with a family, and people around him every day, and a home life. You’re the one left with squat. He may feel bad about it but he’s not getting shafted the way you have been, and have positioned yourself to be, shafted.
Look at it as though you’ve been eviscerated. In Jane Eyre she described being in love (not that I’d call your affair love) as a connection between people’s guts: it’s a good image. You connected your guts to him; now all of those intestinal connections, which took time to form, like a tangle of nerves and blood vessels, have been ripped out.
It frickin hurts! It’s fricking bleeding and tearing up and snotting and diarrheaing all over the place! Yes, as it should. But it doesn’t mean you should surgically reattach yourself to the guy.
Take a brief leave if you have to, so at least for a few days you don’t see him.
You got wounded. You played in traffic, you got hit by the mack truck. Now go home and take care of yourself. Don’t go looking for the mack truck to be sorry he hit you. Give your own self a shake for getting intertwined with someone already intertwined with other people. Give yourself a shake for playing in traffic and getting smacked full of internal injuries. Yes, it hurts.
You will heal. Stay NC.
Hi Magnolia,
I really liked what you wrote:…”My main focus was on how close he’d gotten to me (as in, he saw the “real” me!) and how could he leave me after that kind of closeness?…” This got me thinking about the Flip Flop Wearing AC that I’d been with. This bloke loved the dating…ie not the real stuff…ie the real me. He liked the women who he could take out and feed! (read recent post on my feeder penchant) he liked me all dressed up, He liked my Job…dunno why it caused me nothing but stress and basically gave me something to hand wring about. He liked me going to his and snuggling up lol but he didnt like the real me…ie that stuff that we all have going on like periods, housework, chores friends, liking a glass of wine, getting upset, asking for something real, question his Rinky Dinky behaviour, a 18 year old son (who he was obsessed with, ie I was’nt pulling him to line, whatever that means, not controlling his drinking, not doing enough round the house) my son is a great young man and he is OK!!!! having a cat laughing at my type of comedy you know the real stuff that we all have going on. For years I was on a perpetual date with a guy who rides a bike wears Flip Flops and has nothing to talk about other than how he’s done his washing…Yeah I get that, cheers…how he had a punture on the way to work…great..children dying in the Sudan but yeah a punctures out there…what new aftershave he bought…get the picture I used to have life…I love london, theatres, doing like stuff…well I used to, The last time I went was to a dreary Coda meeting in a basement in a church there…just to prove I was working my programme. To be honest I dont know what I was doing. Worrying about this boring man rejecting me…to much of the Relationship Crack…I should have gone to a NA meeting instead. For most of us its so hard to look at the reality because we rush in idetifying with a few hurts and superficial values etc try to merge as one and take each other hostage and then wonder why the hell it didnt work out. Being emotionally unavailable for me was about ignoring the signs, not recognising the signs, one because it was to painful to look at because OH GOD he really is not that into me, not again, Im a really unlovable person and two not knowing what good relationship behaviour was or is, and not recognising the fact that…
Bri, please hang in there and take NML’s and Magnolia’s words to heart. Don’t go down the road and end up six years down the line like me. I remember the pain you’re in — that level of non stop crying and hurt and body shaking happened to me the first couple times my ex MM and I broke up. If you go back, do you want to go through that pain again a few months or a year down the line when he realizes again that he can’t/won’t leave his kids, his life, etc. for you? Lather, rinse, repeat. You’ll go through that pain AGAIN and want him back to feel better and he’ll come back with apologies and how you have a “connection” and blah blah and you’ll want to just feel better and so…back to that again…and then the pain when he realizes, etc. I did that for six years. Please do not make the mistake I did. Stay strong. Take care of YOU. Hugs.
today is my parents’ 50th Anniversary, doing some reflecting on that. if I got married tomorrow, I’d have to be 96 for that day! they’re having a quiet dinner at home, just the 2 of them. they grew out of parties and big social events years ago, along with overt sentimentality about their marriage. hopefully they’ll enjoy themselves, and leave out the bickering, they’ve both become rather cranky and impatient! maybe I will too.
reading this thread has me thinking back to 1st serious heartbreaks in my 20’s. I was certain the pain would last forever then, was totally unprepared. thinking bout those guys, I haven’t been able to access intense feelings of any kind for them, or the extreme acuteness of the pain for what seems a million years. and I had a few rounds of VERY extreme heartbreak, which triggered terrible depression, and once even decided to take a year off of college b/c I knew I couldn’t focus. instead I worked & saved up to live in Paris w/girlfriends for the Spring, travelled around, met up w/friends in London. unfortunately, my rebound relationship then backfired, which prolonged the pain. in any case, it was all so long ago, and I was madly in love each time, it’s where all this oversensitivity to rejection first became apparent. but I did get over them, while swearing I never would. they’re just memories now. in my 30’s, I had relationships with 2 men who ended up dying far too young — one at 29 of pancreatic cancer, and one at 38 of an enlarged heart he was unaware of. I loved them too, and yes, had to mourn the losses. there was tremendous pain and grief. but I did move past that.
there have been many days over the past year, that inner negative voice has once again been telling me I’ll never get over this, I’ll never find anyone to love ever again, that those other heartbreaks were different. one cannot compare apples & oranges, but I know my losses are nothing like what my parents will experience when the time comes.
sometimes, I think the best cure is to zone out & laugh until you can’t breathe. just recently I found “Peep Show” from UK, on Hulu in the U.S., watched all 7 seasons in a marathon. never laughed so hard in my life. that’s a healthy way to distract from pain, imho!
Bri
A few practical suggestions:
1. Can you take holiday for a couple of weeks? Or even a week.
2. Stop describing it as a a “relationship”, call it an “affair”.
3. If he approaches you again in parking lots (pathetic), tell him you will only speak to him, in the office, on work-related matters
4. You’ve got another week of crying on the couch. Week three, limit your crying time to an hour a day.
5. Seriously, if it gets that bad, find a new job!
Hi Bri, I just want to give you some encouragement. Hang in there and give yourself some time. Time really does heal all wounds. I speak from experience. My 4 year old daughter died of cancer and at the time, I thought I would never enjoy life again, ever. I honestly did not believe I would even ever laugh again. It did take well over a year to even feel somewhat normal, and 5 years to realize I did enjoy life again and happiness did return to my heart and I did laugh again, a lot! The loss of my child was the deepest loss I could ever imagine, and while I don’t want to minimize your saddness (and I experienced a pretty good run of depression over my stupid MM situation) there is one thing I know. As humans, we can eventually move on past ANYTHING (not get over, just live with it), and so can you. Just keep your eyes in front of you, put one foot in front of the other, and remember when you feel the lowest, you will survive this. Time will march on, and one day you will think of him and not feel like someone kicked you in the stomach. Then another day you will think of him and realize it has been 2 days since you last thought of him. And finally, one day you will only think of him when you want to, or something reminds you of him. Your pain is not forever. It is impossible for us to hold it that long, we are not made that way. Use this time to grow. People lose people they love every day, through divorce, death, or break ups and they do go on to live happy, fulfilled lives. You will too, but please be a bit more patient with yourself. If you haven’t, watch 500 Days of Summer…what a great loved and lost movie!
Thank you for sharing and I’m sorry for your loss. As a mother, I know that just the thought of losing your child is painful and to experience it as you and several friends can attest to is something that changes a person. It is however recognising that people who lose loved ones through death do gradually recover. My grandma passed 3 years next week – my grandad after more than 50 years of being together lived to smile and enjoy life again. He’s not the ‘same’, how could he be, but after believing he’d never survive, he has.
Oldenough and Bri,
I too am very sorry for the loss of your 4 year old daughter Oldenough. I’m glad that you can laugh again, a lot. The exMM lost a child (same age as my daughter) and the grief was tremendous. I still have nightmares and call my daughter at all times of the day and night to make sure she is ok.
Bri as I mentioned to you, I experienced the rinse, lather, repeat syndrome when the ex MM would turn up at work, sad, looking like shit, wearing my favorite shirt, saying that he can’t live without me. The fact I now realize is, he made the choice to live without me, despite his words. Your ex MM has made the same choice, too live without you. Thus, he apparently can.
I couldn’t write much in the beginning, I thought, because I was too busy crying. When you can, download Natalie’s guidelines for the Unsent Letter. I’ve had therapists talk about Unsent Letters but never understood how to write one, what the significance was or how to start until I read Natalie’s guidelines. I started and stopped and started and stopped. Mostly, I feared the pain of unloading the baggage because it hurt too much. What I see now is how amazingly spot on I was when I started. Even though I didn’t think I was writing much, I was. Last night, I sat down to continue the Unsent Letter to the MM and I was shocked. Nothing came up. I may be simply done. I’d highly recommend getting started even while you are crying. That’s the best time. I’m going to do some more later this afternoon and see what comes up.
My thoughts are with you. Grace’s recommendation regarding next week and the week after are great! Get writing.
Can I also say to oldenough’, I am so, so sorry for your terrible loss and so impressed by your courage.
To Bri: you don’t get it yet, but keep reading Nat! And listen to amazing Grace – she talks a heap of sense borne out of hard won wisdom via personal experience – all hard truths, but truths! One suggestion from me: go back in the archives here and read about boundaries; you are in this situation partly,perhaps mainly, because you don’t kow what your boundaries are. If you have no boundaries – no non-negotiables – you have nothing to protect you from the hurt that you are now feeling – you cannot dodge the bullets and even when you free yourself from this MM you will remain vulnerable to repeat the same mistakes (and Bri, yes, this affair is a mistake! A very big mistake and you are now reaping what you have sown for yourself). Boundary number one for all of us: “I do not date men who are already attached” (married, girlfriend, partner etc.). Don’t date or engage in flirtations with them and you won’t be in this position. And that includes this MM you are stuck on now. Him too, he is NOT an exception. He is the rule. He has to go. For your own sake and health and happiness and well-being, he has to go. So, set that boundary now. No married men. None. He is bad news; all he has for you is more of the same. You are not that desperate and he is not that special (he is married = NOT available = don’t engage with him and if you do expect to do a shed load of crying on the couch and everywhere else for a very long time). Also, if he cared about you – or had a healthy respect for your welfare – he would not be bleating away about how hard it all is for him – in a parking lot. He’d know he was bad news for you and leave you well alone. Good luck.
Oldenough – Just wanted to give you a big ol’ {{HUG}}. You are an inspiration!
Bri – you will move past this. Not that I’m an expert on anything, but if I were in your position I would look for a new job, pronto! I think you may even realize at this early stage that the work situation is going to cause you extended pain when it is not necessary.
I’ve been reading BR for a few months, and in that time I have so benefitted from you, Natalie, and also all the fabulous insightful comments. The last two years I have been in so much pain with my divorce from a passive agressive AC/EUM with whom I share 3 children. Facing the knowledge of my own choices in this disaster have been particularly painful, since reading BR and thinking hard about my trend in choosing men–starting in middle school (ha so boys I guess).
I’ve screened plenty of unsuitable men in these past 2 years, and I finally fell (hard) for a younger man who while kind and sweet superficially, did in fact admit he could not give me what I thought I wanted (a committed relationship). Well, faced with this reality of our divergent paths, I was disappointed, but I foolishly resolved that “sure we can be friends, call me when things calm down in the next couple weeks.” Umm, yeah that was stupid. I knew it, and after reading this blog and seeing, thinking so much, I knew he would call, push the “reset” button in around ten days, and here I was giving him permission! Sure enough, he called on Sunday and asked if he could come over and just “lay in my bed with me.” Seriously! I said yes, and then in this little numb bubble of mine, proceeded to completely violate myself by having sex, thinking “well I know I’m gonna regret this, so I better do it twice.” Who does that!?! I was offended when I got an obligatory “nice” text the next day–“I had fun yesterday!” But that’s what I made it. It wasn’t meaningful, loving, affectionate, and he didn’t stay the night, because the pretense of maybe there’s a relationship, maybe there’s not was completely gone. And I handed to him on a silver platter. WTF.
“well I know I’m gonna regret this, so I better do it twice.” I actually couldn’t help but laugh and I suggest it’s what you do Lila and then never allow him to do it again. You’ve sucked, you’ve seen, you know it’s not good for you and ultimately that’s all that counts. Push your flush handle and start looking forward.
Lila, I laughed out loud at the ‘better do it twice”!! I can relate to that so much! I had same idea when I’d go against my better judgement and see the ex-EUM again after promising myself I wouldn’t when he did his ‘gone cold’ on me routine. I would know the on/off pattern would repeat itself and would figure, well, if I’m daft enough to be here with him – again! – I may as well make the most of it! Glad I have now got my head out of my arse!
I am still really struggling with the reality of who he is. There are some really sweet things about him, almost like he’s straying into/experimenting with EU behavior but is not completely “gone” as it were. There I go, wanting to be Flo. Ugh. He is a musician, hanging with musicians. I have to remind myself that your company unavoidably affects your character…
I still struggle with feelings of rejection. If we tried, and didn’t work, that’s one thing. But to build me up, then not even give it a whirl, and turn to someone you just met instead? Hurtful.
I feel like Sally in ‘When Harry Met Sally’, when she found out Joe, her ex was getting married. Harry came over, and said, “I thought you didn’t want him?” Sally says, “I didn’t. BUT HE DIDN’T WANT ME!”
He loves me, but isn’t in love with me. Can’t imagine me not in his life. Whatever.
Bah.
Ah, I just read your highlighted post, after my most recent comment, and this jumped out at me:
“………it’s time to ask yourself that if you want these things that badly, what are you going to do about it?”
“I stopped pitying myself, I stopped making excuses, and I faced my fears and DID something. ”
What am I going to do about it, indeed! Time to get my head out of my butt. Seriously.
Thank you, Nat! And thank you Blaise, Grace, and CC, and others for sharing your stories!
Yes Nat, it is what I do. And I entered into this “autopilot” mode for the time we were together, so I was blindsided with the hurt that followed. Even though he positioned himself for my lapse in judgement, I was the one who made the decision to go through with it. I should also note that this was our first time being intimate. I am trying to learn to be more intentional with the men I choose. It’s exhausting sometimes. I’m taking some time for me for a while.
Over a week ago, there was a planned get together with some people on meetup.com. I backed out. I wondered if this was a red flag on my part, if it was me afraid of rejection or my paranoia. The coordinator has me as a friend (though we have not met) on FB and made a comment about someone who visited her house recently. It hit me as she is talking about someone she just met and is announcing it on this public website. That made me feel weird because my mind went to if she posts about people on this website, then this is the type of person she is and I am not comfortable with someone that could possibly post about me. Maybe I used that as an excuse not to go but it bothers me when people do stuff like that. So I immediately did not trust her.
Plus I was too anxious to go to her house, having never met her or the other people that were going. I was scared of what they would think of me…..and heck…..post about it on FB.
Hey there colororange,
What you have described sounds a bit weird to me. I’m no expert though. I’ve only been to three meetup events but they have been in public places and not at somebody’s house. I don’t think I’d feel comfortable going to a stranger’s house to meet other folks I did not know. What they would think of me or post on FB seems irrelevant. That being said, the FB element just adds another dimension of weirdness. I think you probably did the right thing in trusting your instinct. Going to a stranger’s house to meet strangers doesn’t sound like fun to me either. The only reason I went to the three meet up events was because there was music I wanted to hear and I know I have to get out of my rut. I met a nut case but nut cases are everywhere, including my place of work. Now I think I know how to go in the opposite direction when the nuts drop on my doorstep whether they are my colleagues and/or jokeamoes who want to get laid. I’m thinking you did the right thing and thank you for sharing. It’s tough to know when you are behaving in the present based on the past and when to trust new found awareness. I wouldn’t go to a stranger’s house…red flag.
I am totally with runner on this colourorange – good decision!
Colororange, the red flag isn’t backing out (as Grace, Fearless have said it was a good decision) – the red flag is that when you have the opportunity to try something new and engage with new people, you choose a shady opportunity which then gives you the legitimate opportunity to back out. That is sabotage, self-fulfilling prophecy, laziness, you name it. You then get to tell yourself that new meetings are risky and avoid getting out of your comfort zone. I put it this way – if you were planning to meet people who never use a social network, you’re narrowing that pool dramatically.
1) Stop adding strangers on Facebook if you’re that concerned about privacy. Or get off Facebook.
2) Take the suggestions that Runner has made re meeting up – just like you wouldn’t go on a first date to someone’s house or meet in a dark alleyway, as a lone woman you wouldn’t just arrange to meet up with some randoms at a house.
3) Stop trying to control the uncontrollable – people talking about what they did, even when it’s ridiculously mundane is the bread and butter of social networks. If you’re going to judge people, do it for something proper.
4) Distrusting someone because they posted on Facebook is exceedingly disproportionate. Distrusting someone that posts inappropriate or even offensive material on Facebook is another matter of course.
What you did is like going on a dating site and agreeing to meet some random guy at his house and then changing your mind. Actually even worse, it would be like agreeing to meet several random guys at a house. What’s the issue? The fact that they might do something or the fact that you would agree to meet several random guys at the house? One is something that hasn’t happened yet but could and the other is something 100% under your control and has already happened.
When I saw that she was hosting the meetup at her house, I considered telling her I was not comfortable with that because I did not know her or anyone else that would be showing up. Plus, I did not have a suggestion as to where we could meet instead since it was a potluck. I can be a risk taker on some things but my days of doing stupid stuff like throwing myself headlong into things that could be dangerous are quickly ending. Then when I saw her making fun of someone else on FB it sort of solidified me not going. I know it sounds bad and I am not happy that I have this shady side to me, but it seems I am spending most my time managing anxiety over people. So would it have been rude or a good idea for me to just tell her I was not comfortable with the meetup situation or not say anything at all? I have many questions on general people skills on what to say and not to say. It’s like there are so many rules. I wish there was a class I could go to where I live that would help me out in this area. Being it is a small city where there is not much of that going on, I feel like I am floundering alone.
colorange
you don’t have a shady side (well, no more than anyone else here). you’re not confident of your beliefs, you don’t trust your instincts, and you’re not very streetwise. I’m sure that how’s a lot of women end up in shady situations, not necessarily because they themselves are shady.
It’s fine to say “thanks for inviting me but i can’t make it. hope you’re evening goes well” You don’t have to give a long explanation.
Can you possibly extend the relationships you already have – say colleagues, family, friends, church, reading group at the library, evening classes, dance classes? The internet is a bit of a minefield.
Colour, I agree totally with Nat. Your first mis-judgement was to arrange to meet a bunch of strangers in a house and not in an appropriate public place – God knows what they might have had in mind. That could have been potentially dangerous. That was the red flag. You missed it. I do however, agree that the woman who runs these “meets” should not be mocking her “guests” on f/bk or publicly – anywhere. That’s bad form and a red flag – but it was the second one and nothing campared to the first that you ignored. So you were right to back out. But you should never have opted in. Don’t add stangers as friends on f/bk. Meet them first before you decide to be friends! Focus on this: meet new people and have fun – but do it with your safety and well-being as your first and greatest priority.
I have a feeling you’d be better getting involved in an official, genuine and properly run local club or group that involves people who want to learn or engage in a common interest, sport or hobby. Consider that as a better and safer bet.
I reckon a bigger red flag than Colororange’s doubts is the fact that anyone would consider hosting a Meetup in their own home, i.e. opening it up to total strangers. On top of this, the fact that this woman 1) befriends strangers on Facebook and 2) slags people off on Facebook should signal that this person has serious boundaries issues and therefore isn’t someone you’d want to spend time with.
Peacefrog Colororanges ‘doubts’ aren’t the primary red flag as they ultimately even though they’re scrambled in with some stuff she could do with handling, kept her out of an odd situation. It’s also important to recognise that with the level of anxiety, it could have been in room in the centre of town with police guard and closed access to social networks and there would still have been an issue.
2 people here – one you can control, one you can’t. Facebook aside, the original choice to go to it was made by Colororange. Plenty of people go to meetup’s at homes although I imagine they’re more likely to know one another.
It’s very easy for us to pick faults with others but at the end of day, take the focus of them and bring it back to you.
Heh funny this came up.. I was going to go to my first meetup today because it sounded fun – Dinner & a Movie. Well it turned out that the movie was some weird independent film (I prefer mainstream movies) and the dinner was at a pretty expensive place that is also an absinthe bar (I don’t drink but I wondered if that was one of the reasons they chose it). Though I was excited to get out there, I ended up backing out and I wondered if I was doing it for the wrong reasons. But it occurred to me that spending at least $40 on an event that didn’t even sound interesting to me was just plain silly. Especially since I’m trying to watch my money right now. So I cancelled and created my own suggestion for a bowling and pizza meetup.. MUCH more my style. I still want to meet new people, but not in situations that don’t match up with what I’m interested in. That struck me as trying to be something I’m not and I wouldn’t attract the kind of people I would want to hang out with in that situation anyway.
Well, I did not get the job I wanted. They put me on a list of instructors. It is interesting, isn’t it, how you can really want a job and go hard for it and if you don’t get it: well – I don’t sit around crying, wondering if I’ll ever get another job, thinking, I have been rejected for jobs in the past! I’m destined to NEVER be employed! 🙂 I don’t feel rejected; I feel like I came second in a race.
I do wonder, with a twinge, who beat me out for this term’s position but really, it doesn’t matter that much. The job is about what I need out of it, if it’s not happening, moving on.
Could it be that this is how I can feel about dating? I have never felt as strongly about a guy as I have about certain jobs: ie. THAT one, I want THAT one. I wonder what kind of relationships would spur me with that kind of calm, focused and self-assured energy that I bring to job interviews I really want a shot at, am qualified or almost qualified for, and am a bit nervous about?
I would like to be so confident that I don’t feel disadvantaged in the ‘competition’ amongst women, and could handle being with someone that others would also try hard for.
By the way I thought BR readers might find this article interesting. It suggests having high or low self esteem affects even what consumer items we choose or reject. The results suggest how harshly we can compare ourselves to others.
Notice, it’s not actually “how pretty” the women are compared to one another that matters (as if that is measurable) but how much self-esteem the woman has.
Bri
I have been there too and made the mistake of having a relationship with a second married man. It has just ended and it hurts like heck and I have to see him at work every day. In fact he is now avoiding me in the parking lot even though I have done nothing to try to reconnect with him–and his avoiding hurts too (that’s why I am here). Believe me when I say that no matter how long you would have stuck it out, he will not leave his wife. Take the time to heal and then be sure you are ready for a relationship with someone who is available. This is a lesson to be learned now, so that you don’t repeat it again. That is a great gift. It was a long relationship, so don’t beat up on yourself for hurting so badly.
Michelle
Your comment highlights something I realised in my brush with the MM:
HE CANNOT DO THE RIGHT THING
It hurts when he lurks in the carpark to make you feel sorry for him but it hurts when he avoids you in said carpark.
It hurts when he says he loves you
It hurts when he doesn’t say it.
It hurts when he says he will leave his wife.
It hurts when he doesn’t say anything about leaving his wife.
It hurts when he has sex with you
It hurts when he cuts the sex off so you can be “just friends”
It hurts his wife when he’s with you.
It hurts you when he’s with his wife.
It would hurt his wife to leave her (and, for a minute, try to entertain the idea that she would hurt more than YOU do)
It hurts you if he stays with her
It hurts his family when he takes his money, time and love away from them
It hurts you when he puts them first
Honestly and seriously – what do we expect him to do? Stop waiting for him to come up with a solution! He’s stuck because EVERYTHING HE DOES IS WRONG. Every nice thing he does for his wife is bad for you. Every nice thing he does for you is bad for his wife.
Be grateful it’s over.
Yes Grace, so true. I have thought of exactly what you have said here before ,any times – I had a thing with an MM many years ago and it hurt like hell. I cried for months and didn’t feel human again for at least a year – Oh yes, he was the love of my life (lol). Yet, I did love him (in as much as I understood what “love” was at the time) but it’s an episode that I bitterly regret for all kinds of reasons. I felt very guilty about it eventually (and still do) because I came to understand how badly *I* had actually behaved. And if I’d loved him (and had any human concern for another woman and her children) I would have put him out of his misery and sent him home for good long before the actual ‘end’ came about. It was horrible. Yes, Grace, it doesn’t matter what they do – it all hurts. All of it. They can do nothing right, they can say nothing right – not one thing. Ever. Because it is ALL wrong and can never be the right thing to be doing. The rejection you feel when they finally stay with the wife and don’t come back is dreadful. I remember having the cheek to feel soooo angry that he still had his life in tact and a wife/partner to spend it with – he still had everything that he had had before he met me while I was left alone and desolate to start again (like Ann Robinson on the Weakest Link – UK quiz show – her end line to the loser: “you leave with nothing”. And that about sums it up for the OW; whatever is whatever is, whatever he does or doesn’t do, whatever he says or doesn’t say the result is the same: You Leave With Nothing.
And that’s exactly how it should be. We see that later, but not at the time.
One last comment on that which occurs to me: I came to understand how being an OW is a VERY, VERY selfish thing to do. I came to understand what a horrid selfish person I was in trying to convince a man with a wife and children to be with me. We are so wrapped up in the the love fantasy bubble and in our supposed god-given right to pursue it, so wrapped up in our misplaced, warped sense of righteousness (“but you don’t understand – we love eachother!!!” – bollocks) that we fail, miserably fail, to recognise just how enormously self-absorbed, selfish, self-pitying and self-centred we actually are during these affairs.
Sorry to be blabbing now, probably off topic.
Fearless
Ouch but true.
And let’s not forget HIS selfishness – heads he wins (wife and family), tails he wins (mistress). Yay for him!
The innocent party is his wife, picking up the groceries, sexing him (yes they are having sex), looking after the kids, planning their holidays while he TALKS SHITE about her behind her back. To a woman she doesn’t even know who wants to see her divorced and her kids reduced to occasional visits with dad (and her replacement).
Divorce is sometimes necessary but who knows what problems a couple could overcome if a third party doesn’t get in the way? And sometimes divorce is best for the children. But that’s not the OW’s decision.
Bringing this back on topic, I get that it’s difficult when an affair ends but let’s not prolong our agony by obsessing about the perceived rejection. The MM couldn’t reject me. I wasn’t his wife and I wasn’t even his girlfriend. What’s to reject? He couldn’t take me out, introduce me to his kids or his family, or take me on work functions. He couldn’t meet my friends. He couldn’t move in with me. He couldn’t ask me to marry him no matter how fabulous, sexy, smart etc I am. He wasn’t rejecting me .HE WAS MARRIED.
And don’t diss his wife, imagining that she’s some sexless harridan for your poor MM to be a cheat. She could just as easily be Cheryl Cole, Jackie Kennedy, Jennifer Aniston – they all got cheated on!
You know what? This is true for ANY relationship with an EU. Everything they do is wrong – all the time. It doesn’t matter if my husband never cheated on me physically – he cheated me of his time and affection when he spent hours with his friends, on the phone, on the Internet. He might as well have cheated! I would feel less insulted being “rejected” for an actual person than for some flirty girl on Facebook. EVERYTHING HE DOES IS WRONG! Thank you, @grace, for making a very good point!
Grace
So true. I’m not proud that I fell in the trap again, but what happened is he did say he was leaving his wife (because she had had an affair). Then, however, he went on a planned business/personal trip with her. I said let’s suspend this until you are really ended. When he came back from the trip he implied, invited me to his place for dinner making my favorite meal (they work in separate cities), and then initiated sex, which I naively went along with. Afterwards I found out he had not left and they had had a good time together and he was going to work on the marriage. Yes, I was in denial and should have asked before being intimate with him again. But at least when he told me he was still with her I left immediately and initiated NC (with one lapse so far after the parking lot incident). Anyway I am not happy that I started a relationship with a MM, but I am very happy that I ended it as soon as I saw the writing on the wall. All of this happened in the span of 7 weeks, so thankfully I know I will get over it. The tough part is that we work in the same building and have some of the same social contacts, and that is what I am struggling with. I don’t want the possibility of seeing each other and things being awkward to interfere with my comfort and happiness at work. I love my job. I emailed him to try to say that I didn’t want things to be awkward, but it was useless and counterproductive because he didn’t respond. I’m back now to NC and focusing on me.
I’ve got to be true to myself… http://youtu.be/ikzQmC3S-mE.
The ex MM was always surprised that there was a reagee song that summed life up. This one even surprised me today. Even though I’ve heard it before, it resonated today. Hope you will listen.
I’m feeling discouraged as all my cousins have settled down young, yet I’m single again. It feels like you get over an ex, only to get screwed over by the next person. Meanwhile my parents think you have to be married just to do anything. They would be happy if I never left home.
Fedup
There’s your problem – your parents and their expectations. My parents weren’t bothered if I got married or not and I still had crap relationships. That’s not really the issue, the issue that they are controlling your life.
When you care too much about what other people think you can’t have good relationships. You won’t know who you really are, you doubt yourself and your boundaries are poor. You don’t bring your full self into relationships, you morph into a boyfriend (or even someone-i-went-out-with-twice) pleaser. Decent men get put off by that. But it attracts EUs – they like women with no boundaries. And it makes YOU attracted to them because you have a compulsion to jump through hoops. “Ooh, he’s a bit distant, married, living with someone, a player, a bit mean, ambiguous. I’ll see what I can do to please him and make him pick me. That’s exciting to me”
Stop blaming the ACs and EUs for the fact that you’re stuck at home and unhappy. I’m assuming you live in the Western world where, thankfully, women don’t need their parents’ permission of a man’s permission to live our lives. Yes the exes were numpties but you can’t do anything about that. Judge Judy sometimes yells ” You get no compensation for emotional distress. YOU PICKED HIM!!” The only thing you can do something about is who you pick. And the first step is to ask yourself WHY you picked them. And, please, “I love him/he’s charming/witty/good looking/intelligent/ we have good sex/he says nice things” is NOT the right answer. That’s just what you tell yourself.
@Fedup – i’m from an eastern family, so i am very familiar with the pressures of conforming to family beliefs and values, even though mine are the total opposite. I spent 6 years with a perfectly decent, but wrong for me, man because it was what i thought i should be doing. That’s not life. It will never make you happy, even if you do have someone and are in a ‘stable’ relationship, it still might not be the right one. Just because you’re not with a total knob-head, doesn’t mean all your problems are solved.
Eventually, at the age of 31, i decided to do what i wanted. I decided to identify and stick to my values and tell my parents what my life was going to be, rather than asking them what it should be. They treated me like i had completely lost the plot. They asked me on several occasions whether i knew what the hell i was doing. My dad actually got angry and said “Don’t come crying to me when…..”. The end result? It has been two years since i started doing my own thing and i have never been happier. My parents still look at me like i’m one of those seven legged creatures in a jar, but they are still my parents who love me and, in any case, they never really understood me anyway. We agree to disagree.
Doing your own thing in spite of social and cultural norms does take courage. You do get a lot of flack for it, but if keeping quiet and ‘going along with things’, for an easier life is the alternative, i’d much rather put up with the occasional aggrevation.
Hope this helps!
I still find the “rejection” of the ex EUM hardest to stomach when I find it hard to mentally re-invent him into the person I now understand him to be.
I struggle sometimes to completely demolish my own invention or erroneous belief about him and to re-invent him back again to the reality of the man I should have seen and acted upon when I met him. It is very hard (for me anyway) to re-align him consistently in my mind with the reality of who he actually is, who he has shown himself to be to me – consistently.
I am convinced that the EUM was NOT the man I thought (or hoped) he was. So I know I should not feel ‘rejected’ and that I did in fact reject myself for all those years I pursued the relationship and stuck it out with him. But…. I still find myself thinking about him, reacting to him and my thoughts of him in the “past person”, if you see what I mean. It’s such a hard habit to break. I did this yesterday. And it floored me for a whole day – hence I came back on to read BR. I found out that he had been promoted at work to a “big” position, one he had talked to me a lot about – well, now he has it. Fine. Thing is, when I fell of the NC wagon about four/five months ago (March). At that point I was communicating with him regularly for about 2/3 weeks. We slept together twice. What I know now is that he had already been promoted to this “big” position, seriously as big as it gets in his profession. He never mentioned it to me. He kept it from me. And I have no idea why he would do that (who the F cares, I hear you all say, and I agree – but it hurt!) Yesterday when I realised this had happened and he didn’t tell me, I was floored, rejected, slapped in the face – you name it I felt it. And my reaction about it was in the “past person” not the present person that I know him to be (if you see what I mean)… all the old misery and let down and rejection came flooding back and I felt like a worthless peice of shit the whole day. Am dealing with it better today… but am still feeling the effects; I feel demotivated. That feeling of rejection is shit. It’s sore. It hurts. I need to get my gumption back. And fast. I lost it yesterday.
@Fearless – It seems like such a small thing, doesn’t it? But the shockwaves just keep pouring through you… He and I both pushed the Reset button yesterday knowingly. (I am punishing myself – it’s a long story) Thought I could stick it out this time. This morning, I go outside and on the ground I see the outer wrapper of a cigarette pack. I know it’s his. He knows I HATE littering. So I ask him to pick it up, he does. Then he walks over towards another car, casually strolling, finishing his cigarette. I know EXACTLY what he’s doing. He’s dropping that litter. So I take him to work. I come home and check. Yes, the litter is there, next to the wheel of the car.
No one but you all here would GET why this is the straw that broke the camel’s back. It doesn’t MATTER what he thinks. It bothers me, end of story. He could have easily put that trash in his pocket. But he does not care what I think and how I feel. And a little tiny piece of cellophane had to be my messenger. My heart sunk when I saw it but no surprise. Enough is enough already. I’m tired of being disgusted with myself.
Wicked: “am tired of being disgusted with myself”. I so get that! You get tired of practically begging for their rejection of you until you realise you are the one who is doing all the rejecting – of you. It’s strange how we can find loving some daft clown so irresistible and yet so hard to love ourselves. I wish I had all the answers. I wish I could always feel what I know I should be feeling. What I do recognise now is what (and who) is bad for me… that’s got to be a good thing, even when it’s sore – the bad thing is sorer! The litter-bug is a twit, Wicked, chuck him to the kerb!
Fearless, Wicked
Sorry to hear about this setback.
In my experience with breakups, you really start to turn the corner around the six month mark. It may take a year to fully recover from a big break up. Don’t panic, it’s not a year of unalloyed misery, it’s ups and downs, but with the overall trend being UP.
Falling off the wagon isn’t the end of the world but it does set you back a bit in your recovery. Fearless, it’s only been about four months since you last saw him; it’s not a very long time. Especially at our age!
It’s like snakes and ladders, you’ll get there in the end but the fewer snakes you slide down the quicker it will be. Emailing/facebook etc are like little snakes; sex is like sliding down a big snake (forgive the yucky sexual innuendo) When you know he doesn’t care about you, contact is just an opportunity for him to let you down/reject you again. He is just being what he is. Like they say in the mafia (allegedly) before they shoot you in the head “it’s not personal”. But no-one likes to be rejected or shot in the head so best avoid it.
There are good days and bad days. Let them pass and have faith that you’re on the right path. Don’t invest too much in a good day “I feel great; I feel SO GREAT I’m gonna see how he’s doing” or in a bad day “I feel SO BAD. It’s all over for me!”
And it’s best if you don’t try to find out whether he gets promoted/married/the Nobel Peace Prize. That said, if WE have the right to live a full life after the breakup, so does he. I’m sure even the best of us would get a kick out of our exes crying and weeping over us and not getting over our fabulousness, malingering in a half-life of non-achievement, but it’s better for Mankind as a whole if we all pick up the pieces and live to our full potential. Otherwise, none of us would be any use to anybody, least of all ourselves!
Grace, that was all kinds of amazing. I really needed to read it today, so thank you! I had blocked all communication (Facebook, email, cell) from my ex-AC, so Genuis McGee decided to call me from another number. Not knowing it was him, I answered the call. He told me he’d been thinking about me and “just wanted to say hi”. I was stunned – I know I shouldn’t be, but things ended SO badly the last time I thought after a few half-hearted attempts at him contacting me after the fact, I wasn’t going to have him bothering me after 7+ months NC. Not to amp up the drama meter on this, but it was really, really insulting. I got off the phone as quickly as possible, with him asking if he could call me again. I said that no, it wasn’t appropriate and I am moving on with my life…of course he starts bleating about all of his problems and saying that he was thinking of moving to the city that I live in (heard that one before) but didn’t know what to do. I said that I did not want to hear from him again, asked him to respect my wishes and hung up. Contact like that really is just them trying to create another opportunity to reject us again!
Thanks amazing Grace. I’ll be just fine. I am doing really well generally. It’s funny, yesterday as I was feeling all the familiar stomach churning of another slap in the face from him – imagined rejection! I really tuned in to how I was feeling. I decided to sit down and just FEEL it – all of it – and describe it to myself. And I realised that I felt absolutely terrible about myself, weak and worthless, neglected, dejected, rejected… and I was horrified to recognise this as a familiar feeling, like an old friend, but not so friendly!! – from the ex EUM relationship. I thought, ‘my God – I used to live with that regularly’, and it used to feel normal to me when I was in the midst of the Mr EUM – unpleasant, yes, but I was actually so used it I had come to expect to feel like that pretty regularly. I never really questioned it as something I had any control over. I just coped with it until it passed – and it never really went away, not really; not for very long, it lurked. I am NOT ever going to ignore or just accept those kind of feelings again without taking action to resolve whatever is causing them. And thank God for Nat and BR I have the foundations and the tools now to deal with it. I know what action to take and I will. Thank you. Everyone.
@grace – Thanks for some very good advice. I have trouble being kind to myself. Very good at criticising me, of course. It’s funny you brought up the 6 mos. mark. The lightbulb came on for me on Valentine’s Day of this year – almost exactly 6 months ago. I realized he was an emotional abuser. If we stayed together, it surely would have gotten physical eventually. Sadly, I have done this backwards and gotten over him while still staying with him. The only “good” thing about that is that I’m very calm now that he’s left. I feel relieved! It’s like I mourned this whole time and now I’m cried out. I still have my moments but I’m not on the floor doing Munch’s scream anymore! I’ve lost that lovin’ feelin’ – and it’s not coming back. THANK GOD!
Hey Fearless, I hope you are doing better today. After reading BR for about 8 months now, I think I’ve figured out how to spot an AC/EUM: When you are left scratching your head thinking WTF, who does that?
Bri and all the former OW’s, like Fearless, it is difficult to wrap my head around who I imagined him to be and who he actually is. I started writing that section of the Unsent Letter yesterday and the difference is striking. Bri, by the time he comes slithering back around (if he does), you will have the strength to reject him and his lying, decietful ways. MM’s are liars. Of course, that is not to diminish my role as a former OW.
Amazing Grace, you are amazing. “Like they say in the mafia (allegedly) before they shoot you in the head “it’s not personal”. But no-one likes to be rejected or shot in the head so best avoid it.” Breaking NC and sucking it and seeing is like being shot in the head.
Fearless and Natasha (and all of you!), sending some e-love to you. Fearless – I can relate to how that feels, that sense of being somehow tricked again, even though he was just being, as Grace says in her usual, perfect way, his useless, selfish self. It’s a shame that there is not an indicative relationship between professional success and good relationship habits – in fact, if there’s any, it’s an inverse one! You’re right, it’s Fantasy Man. I have been out with Fantasy Man before. Awful.
Natasha – Can too see how you felt insulted by AC’s phonecall. What an ego this guy has! He just can’t handle being invisible to you. But, of course, once you’re vulnerable again, he will play up. It’s just a control/validation test! You sound like you dealt with it perfectly, no matter what the emotional lag was. Keep going forward!
As for me, I’ve had a rough few days in light of this rejection issue. My father, in an argument, said, directly (for the first time) that he finds, and has always found, me difficult to get along with, and that it had been his cross to bear in life (but that he just has to live with it). I can’t really express the full weight of this because it’s tied up with many horrible events, and was accompanied by signs of rage, then this kind of martyr-coldness. As if that weren’t enough, despite my best efforts, this then spills over to me having real difficulties with new man this weekend. He was sharp with me, about something that was fair for him, but unfair for me (and we recognised this). Nothing too dramatic happened, on the outside, but there’s such a big part of me that now wants to terminate the relationship because I can’t really afford to risk someone mistreating me. I am finding it really hard to resolve things – on the one hand, it feels easier just to switch off and leave than deal with someone having those angry-man qualities (however much he manages them 95% of the time), and then I feel like some of my power is warped because I can’t entirely tell what is about him and what is family stuff. Holding onto my a sense that I would leave a bad relationship and could cope with that – but this really does suck, having this sense of needing to be able to bail, and possibly over-reacting to threats (but possibly not – maybe he was genuinely being crap?!). Watchful and a little wounded
Elle, thank you for the e-love and I’m sending lots back to you! I’m so sorry your father said that – parents can come out with some real crackerjack statements at times. I highly doubt that’s how he really feels about you. My mother said something similar to me a few years ago when we were having an argument, but at the end of the day, even if they are annoyed with us for some reason at the time, they still love us! In any event, he owes you an apology – that was a shitty thing to say. As far as the new guy goes, I would take a deep breath and try to relax – talk about easier said than done. I know that when I’m not getting along with someone in my family, I am much less objective in my other relationships! Is there something specific he said that upset you? Was it a one-off or part of a bigger pattern? I think we ALL deal with the urge to flee when we sense rejection, mainly because we failed to flee soon enough in our previous relationships!
Hey Elle. What an unpleasant episode to experience with your father. I think the main thing to temper it with is the fact that it was 1) said in an argument and 2) his perspective which may not be entirely emotionally honest never mind honest. It positions him as being a ‘poor poor father’ with a difficult child and absolves himself of any contribution. It doesn’t sound like he’s easy either. So all I can tell you from personal experience and from the many similar tales I hear is that with parents like this, a ‘conversation’ like this was always on the cards. It’s like years of built up frustration. My mother told me that I’d been difficult from when I was a baby in the cot and chose my father and ‘everyone else’ over her. As a baby. I actually burst out laughing and then felt crashing hurt. These ‘conversations’ are designed to make it sound like you would’ve been treated better…if you weren’t so difficult or whatever.
Here’s the thing – your parents are supposed to love and nurture you. I’m not saying they’re not infallible because lord knows they fuck up, but you can’t just go “Ah sod it. She doesn’t jump to my beat/is a bit too clever/needs a bit more time and effort than I’m used to doing/doesn’t think the sun shines out of my arse – shag it, I’ll just opt out of being a parent”
Don’t give him your power. When you stop looking for his approval and love and basically expecting him to be different to what he’s always been, is when you can exhale and just let things be. I refuse to have these types of conversations anymore – my last one was April ’10. You remind him where’s he’s let you down – remember that before you put the responsibility for his actions on your back and carry it around with you.
Re your fella, I’d be careful of doing anything ‘rash’ especially with the two events so close. Be sure you’re seeing and dealing with each one separately. People do get angry – you do, I do, everyone does. It’s what type of anger and how it resolves itself out. It’s impossible to avoid conflict in a relationship. I don’t know what the nature of the argument was or what went down, but as someone who has previously been hypersensitive to anger or ‘criticism’, it’s important to recognise that arguments happen and that a raised voice doesn’t mean you’re 7 again having something ‘bad’ happen to you. My M.O. was to bail at arguments. 5 years ago I made a promise to myself to grow up and learn to argue and experience conflict maturely. I’ve stuck to it. There is also nothing wrong with saying ‘Er, easy now on the shouting. Time out.’ or whatever. You have to decide if this is a bad relationship and if it is, get out.
Thanks for your encouragement Elle. I’d like to offer you some decent advice – but Nat’s is as good as it gets! I agree also with Natasha – if he has been a good dad wo hasn’t been a hurtful bugger since day dot then it’s just a blip.
My mother always said that she loves all her children dearly but she did not always like them. And no wonder, I say! Lol. Our parents are just people who get along better with some people than with others. The good ones love their children, and also the children they don’t always get along with when they grow up (I don’t believe any parent should say a baby or a child was “difficult” or selfish, like Nat’s story – and blame it on the baby or the child – that’s just daft! The adult is the adult and should take the adult role) I have always known that both my mum and dad got along with my first younger sister much better then they did with me – much better (as teenagers and grown-ups, I mean). I was the quiet, serious one who read a lot of books and she was the ‘fun’ person! (ha! but I was the good-lookin sister! lol). I would sometimes feel a twinge of hurt when I knew they preferred her company to mine – especially my dad did – that they really liked her better – but I also always reminded myself that they did not love her more – we were all loved the same – all loved if not always liked! So I was also loved very dearly, they just got along better as people with my sister than with me. I don’t know if that helps.
Thanks again, ladies – as ever, great and generous advice. I am afraid to say that my father’s comments were a response to me trying to apologise (the next day) and the scene is far more like Natalie’s with her mother (ie he has this idea that I have somehow victimised him since birth). Certainly no apology on the horizon – in fact, when I saw him a couple of days ago, he had that giddy, gleeful tone as if he’d finally got to say what he’d been wanting to say to me. Anyway, I am not taking it as I might have a decade ago, and certainly not since the AC experience (crawling from that trench has been good training for all sorts of things!). So, yes, I just have to avoid the ‘conversations’ and carry on. As for new man, he has his own family stuff – stuff you can’t know about during the first weeks of a relationship – and he was reacting sharply to me asking him about it. He’s very touchy about it, and I know this issue has been cause for serious problems in his romantic life. I see this as an amber flag. I am going to leave it til I feel a little more robust, and then see if we can have a calm talk about it because there can’t be this whole area of his life that is off-limits for me and a source of anger for him. But I can see now that I have to be gentle and see myself outside it, rather than mixing all the feelings and meanings together. And you’re very right about being able to cope with anger and fighting – in the past, I have either been with passive super-gently guys or horribly angry ones – so my skills are a little skewed. Finally, yes, will opt-out if it’s simply not working (ie making me feel bad and out of touch with my values), for good reasons. But not yet.
Elle, my aunt is the female version of your Dad, so I’ve seen what you’re talking about. In the case of my aunt, she really does love my cousin, her only child, she’s just so dysfunctional that she can’t express it normally. The stuff that she does isn’t just confined to that relationship – she can’t relate normally to anyone in the family. When we were little, she used to tell me I was her favorite niece, because for who knows what reason she didn’t like my sister. 20-something years later, she still doesn’t and no one has a clue why! She was so nasty to her that my mother had to basically cut her out of our lives – it’s so sad all around. What my cousin does with her is to take the good parts of her relationship with her mother and let the bad parts roll off her back as best she can. Please pardon the extended Natasha Family Anecdote – I figured one more reminder that you’re not alone in this couldn’t hurt! As far as the challenge with the new guy goes, I think you’re right on with how you’re handling it. Keep being awesome 🙂
Grace, Fearless, Runnergirl and others,
Your insight is so valuable to me as women who have been in my position. I read your words and know that I am not anywhere close to where you are, but you are examples that it does get better. After the five days of NC when he approached me in the parking lot, I thought it would make me feel better to tell him that I hoped he’d come back to me – WRONG. I cried for two hours in my car as soon as the conversation ended.
I seem to hold onto the notion that if he would “take me back”, I’d at least still have the peace of mind of having hope that he’d leave his wife one day…but the two years we were together, I didn’t have peace of mind. Fearless, like you I am trouble separating the beautiful image of him I had in my head for so long and who he is in reality. I still have that “if only we could be together, everything would be okay” notion in my head, because I’m in withdrawal – he really is a drug to me, and my body is reacting to his absence.
This hurts more than anything I could have ever imagined, but I know that if I can get through it the way you ladies have, I’ll come out on the other side stronger and, more importantly, happier. I just have to shake my longing to be with him again, because unfortunately I’m still in the place where I’d take him back if given the opportunity – and that scares me.
You all are right – I have no boundaries and I’ve struggled with self-esteem issues my entire life. Daddy issues, mommy issues, abusive exboyfriend issues. The crying, the anxiety attacks, the sadness and feeling worthless have made me feel dead inside.
Thank you for your words, and I know I’ll need them many more times in the coming weeks/months. I rely on this blog and the stories of all of you to get me through the day – I don’t know how I’d be cop ing without them.
Bri,
your experience is similar to all of us recovering from EUMs and ACs – it’s really the same deal: he is unavailable. But he would like to keep you as an option. If you tell him your happy to accept the relationship/affair on his terms (forever secret and clandestine) he’ll happily oblige! Beieve me. He just doesn’t’ want the hassle of a moaner and groaner who is expecting too much of him – like leaving his wife or actually providing you with a real relationship. Be aware of him mangaging down your expectations – you are vulnerable to that; vunerable to finding yourself in the OW position for many years. You have a lot of work to do on yourself to avoid the constant misery of ‘rejection’ that comes with the EUM/MM. I said before as well as CC that I think the key is rasing your self-esteem and being able to validate yourself. You DO deserve someone who can actually be with you without having to dump – reject – a wife and children. This is a hopeless situation, Bri – you need to dig deep to get some courage and face this awful problem head on. Start thinking with your head. He is NOT that special! you are NOT this desperate! You have your value with or without him or his hopeless affair! Stay as far away from him as possible. You need to get out of the fog before you can get some clarity to work with. Every day you pine for him is a day you reject yourself, your own life and your own potential to have a fulfilling life. This helps me – I get angry now when I have any kind of ‘relapse’ (I have lost yesterday and today to a “relapse”) – I am upset about it cos I know I am allowing him to rob me of some more of my life – even if it’s just one day! Cos that’s one a day I will never get back – and it’s one day that I could have enjoyed, been content, productive, cheerful and enjoying the company of friends or family or happily out and about in the garden, or lolling around enjoying the rare sunshine we had here today with a nice glass of wine and my book instead of mulling around like I was sick or something, achieving nothing and feeling like shit! We don’t just reject ourselves when we give them our time and energy and emotions, we reject and neglect our own lives. I reclaim mine as of right now. Tomorrow belongs to me!
“Every day you pine for him is a day you reject yourself, your own life and your own potential to have a fulfilling life.” Amen to that. I have gotten more done in the last two and a half weeks since the fog lifted and I went NC than I have in ages. And I don’t mean just getting chores done. But honestly looking at myself and finally getting it and doing the journaling and reading to begin the process of change. All of what you say, Fearless, is spot on. I lost my last Thursday night to a spell of crying/mourning the “loss” of the physical intimacy the MM and I had for six years. But the next morning, bleary eyed and looking like sh*t, I got onto this site and through reading, gave myself a good slap upside the head. Reading here helps me to VALIDATE MYSELF and my decision to go NC. I see now my part in this “sickness” and it’s down to me to heal myself, not reject myself. At 48 years old, I don’t have any more time to waste. Better, as you say, to do the work on myself, and also enjoy life! Action is key. I hit the gym hard yesterday. I’ve been cleaning the house. I’ve been writing. I’ve been cuddling with the cat. And cooking myself nutritious meals. So much better than pining for a “connection” of “love” that existed only in my head, despite the great sex. In the end, (and all along), he was a selfish, lying cheater. And I, with no boundaries and fuzzy values, made that choice. No more!
fearless
exactly. the main reason these EUs sniff around after a break up is to see if they can get something from us on “reduced” terms- eg “just friends”, FWB, booty call, someone to sympathise with their wailing, or whatever crazy arrangement they can wring out of us.
“Surely she must understand by now that I WON’T leave my wife and kids/commit/give up other women/be monogomous/pay my own way. Now that she’s missing me and desperate I can go back and get something for nothing. Worth a try”.
Hey Bri and others,
In my experience, Grace’s comments with regards to boundaries is spot on as usual. My newly established Boundary No. 1: No married men, no men attached, separated, or otherwise involved with another woman (or man). It occured to me after reading Natalie’s “Getting to Grips with Values” (great BTW), core values (not common interests) act in correlation with boundaries. Core Value No. 1: Honesty. Thus, Boundary No. 1 plus Core Value No. 1 ought to add up to 2, right?
Hi Bri and others,
I get the pain, the physical and emotional agony of separation with these attachments. I had another relapse because I don’t want to experience what NML calls, “rejection, rejection”. Over 3 years with a man who told me a few months ago, “it just wasn’t quite there for me” and I found a way to make it okay to hook up with him again. This time after regular contact he just disappeared without one word leaving me with this silence. I am sure he is with someone he actually wants to be with, feeding somewhere else. I find myself feeling incredulous even though he has hurt me so many times in the past (but never just disappeared without a word). I am still stuck on how he never wanted to be my boyfriend but has signed up for others and even cut me off to pursue one. It makes me feel different from many of the other situations people talk about here because I can whack myself over the head with the notion that he wasn’t EU, just disinterested in me, proof positive that I am ‘not up to standard’. Somehow, this cycle of self abuse feels better than the big uncertain chasm that is my future without him. All that to say I found this book that might be helpful to others here called, How to Break You Addiction to a Person by Howard Halpern. He addresses the horrible withdrawal from bad relationships because of attachment issues.
I just wish I felt more hopeful about being able to actually attract someone I would actually date (can string a sentence together, doesn’t act like a horny 18 year old, doesn’t have breath so bad I can smell it across the table i.e. the last 3 guys I went out with). I don’t know about others, but that is partly why I am scared to let go…the prospects feel so bleak. Right now he hasn’t given me a choice because he left but should he come back, I don’t think I could resist. I don’t think I want to. I want to want to but some people feel like it would be better to be alone than be with someone you don’t like or who doesn’t like you. I don’t feel that way. I feel like I have dated for so many years now and the men that like me are not appealing for some of the reasons I mentioned above and then there is the guy I speak of her who isn’t attracted enough to me but I am to him…either way I am compromising, me feeling less, them feeling less or being alone. Sometimes I wonder what…
Lisa I’m sorry to hear of what has happened although admittedly unsurprised as I guessed this is where you had been. In simple terms, the reason why a man like this doesn’t ‘choose’ you is because he doesn’t *have* to. You’ve made it clear repeatedly over 3 years that you’re ok being an option. When he isn’t with you and he treats you badly, you’re still an option and still yapping at his heels trying to get him to choose you – there’s nothing to choose as you’re there regardless. And the fact is, if you want to get into the semantics of it all – he has ‘chosen’ you repeatedly – you’re the chosen one to fall back on.
What you don’t realise is that each fall back is a test of your worth – he’d only really recognise how valuable a person he has mistreated for 3 years was when she stopped giving him the time of day and was no longer an option.
As I’ve said to you before, I’m not here to convince you Lisa and I know that a gazillion people could share their experiences and point out how awful his actions are and your own treatment of yourself but you’re not interested because you insist on not only making his actions about you but separating yourself from ‘everyone’ and determining that you’re a special case of worthlessness. Everything that you participate in and tell yourself about love, relationships and yourself are what you use as justifications for continuing as you are. Everything that happens no matter how much evidence that there is of 1) the other persons character and 2) it not being anything to do with you, you make it about you.
You don’t want me (or anyone) to say what a shit he is etc – you want someone to say ‘Yes Lisa it’s all your fault.’
It is laughable that you’re worried about not being up to standard for a cretin which shows just how low you’re aiming.
I only hope that one day you look up long enough from the self hatred and start treating *you* like someone that’s valuable and worthwhile.
NML
“special case of worthlessness”. Love it. It’s weird but lots of men and women (addicts, fallback girls, the suicidal) would rather be a special case than just plain ordinary. Been there myself.
Lisa, please dig yourself out of your pit and join the rest of us.
You’re not so far gone that the solutions which work for everyone else won’t work for you.
Unless you’ve killed someone?
Hi Nat,
I think you are so wise and I appreciate the time you take to respond thoughtfully to comments. I try to take in what is said on this blog and do feel like I have learned a lot. I struggle to make changes but I don’t think I am exactly the same as when I landed at BR. It is a fabulous place that you have created here. I am trying to understand why it has been hard for me to take in your response to me and I am wondering if you can help me with that. I know you aren’t here to convince me but I do want to try and understand this in a way that isn’t so painful (like your explanation) but what I don’t get is when I think about never making him choose because I was always there, I don’t think that acknowledges that if he wasn’t into me (wasn’t attracted enough at beginning or didn’t feel the right chemistry), he wouldn’t choose me for a relationship no matter what I did or didn’t do and that is where the pain and rejection lie. Don’t get me wrong, I know you can teach someone how to treat you or turn them off with neediness but usually I don’t act insecure unless I feel insecure and he made me feel that way pretty soon in because he acted the way someone does when they aren’t that into you. The fact that I pursued anyway is indicative of my issues and resulted in more rejection and his treatment does say stuff about his character but the underlying pain is around him not wanting me. Me knowing that he has introduced others to his friends, loved others, chased others but not me…in knowing that my friend is his type (he told me she was hot), she is prettier than me and has the body type he likes and that it might have gone differently if he met her instead of me. This is what I just can’t kick my ass past and why I keep protesting responses…I want to believe it wasn’t about me, it would feel better but I wasn’t what he wanted. I feel like it’s just a case of unrequited love with a douchebag.
Lisa, hard as it may be to hear, it’s an over statement of the obvious that you weren’t who he wanted. But the fact that you claim to have “unrequited love with a douchebag” and that you have always known that he’s “just not that into you” answers your own question. I’m not sure what you want Lisa. What is it that you want?
It’s not like you have come here and said “I met this amazing guy with umpteen great qualities but he wasn’t interested and he went on with his life and ever since, I’ve been devastated by the fact that he didn’t want me. He really was such a great guy”. No Lisa. You’re here trying to rationalise “I met an asshole three years ago, who pretty quickly revealed himself to be an asshole and treated me in a less than manner. He obviously wasn’t that into me although to be fair, it’s not like being a decent person in a decent relationship is on his agenda anyway and even if he *had* wanted to be with me, he would still have been an asshole *anyway*. Once he decided that I wasn’t the one for him, he didn’t move on completely and instead kept me in the background to use and abuse, although to be fair, I made myself available for it and chased him down and even when he moved on and claimed to be in love and asked me for advice, I sat there chit chatting to him and then took him back *again* only for him to disappear.”
“what I don’t get is when I think about never making him choose because I was always there, I don’t think that acknowledges that if he wasn’t into me (wasn’t attracted enough at beginning or didn’t feel the right chemistry), he wouldn’t choose me for a relationship no matter what I did or didn’t do and that is where the pain and rejection lie.”
Where are these ‘others’ Lisa? If these people are so fantastic, why isn’t he with them? Where are these people who he has introduced to his friends? Where are these people that he’s chased? Where are these people that he’s ‘loved’? Do you even know what that means?! Why has he been sleeping with/around you if these people are oh so special? Why, when he said he was in love *to* you only three weeks after you broke up, were you able to get back together afterwards and then have him disappear again? Where is that love now? If your friend is his type or he has a type, why isn’t he with it? He has met her and he’s not exactly citizen of the year – if he wanted to have a crack at her, I’m sure he would have done.
He was never ‘choosing’ you for a relationship. He hasn’t ‘chosen’ anyone for a relationship otherwise he would have been in and *stayed* in one.
You could have been different, you still wouldn’t have had a relationship with him. This is evidenced by the fact that this prize of a man is not in a relationship, hasn’t held down a relationship, isn’t with any of these people you overvalue so much and is in fact a twat. He might have behaved slightly better but that’s like me saying that a man that beats his girlfriend wouldn’t have done it if he were more attracted or felt the right chemistry or she had more self-respect – she wouldn’t be there and he’d still be a beater; he’d just be beating someone else.
You still wouldn’t have had a relationship. This would also have been over three years ago if you had been different because you like any other self-respecting person would have realised he was a jackass and that he wasn’t interested and WALKED.
You do not want to believe it wasn’t about you. I don’t believe that for even two seconds. I’ll believe that when I read it. Actions speak louder than words – every comment you’ve made has been variations of “I refuse to believe it isn’t me” even after being away from the site. You don’t ‘get’ what I or anyone else has said to you because it doesn’t suit your agenda. That’s OK because you have to live your life and make your choices. Some people are ready to look at things differently, to let things go, to fight for themselves, to change, to end the pattern, to stop analysing the crap out of other people’s shitty behaviour and be accountable for their own. You are not there yet. Hopefully one day you will be.
Lisa, listen to what Nat is telling you. When I was in the early days of NC and very busy denying the reality of who and what I’d been involved with, I posted something along the lines of, “But I think he was so much nicer to his exes!”. One of the ladies, who I am beyond eternally grateful to, said something that became my “light bulb moment”. What she said boiled down to (pardon the paraphrasing), “He has no empathy for you, he’s a crappy person. If it was so great with his exes, where are these women now? I hope they are not all sitting around wondering why he does what he does.” When I read that, it was like….BINGO! I still have my wobbly times where I cringe that I let a bunch of bs go on for so long, but what this lovely woman said to me became the catalyst for a whole new way of life. Let this be your light bulb moment.
I am daft because when you were saying things about his character (and it not having anything to do with me), I thought you were saying that it wasn’t that he wasn’t into me, it was that he was an asshole. I guess you had already known the first part and were trying to explain the second. Thanks for your response.
Lisa,
I feel for you and am not a millions miles away from the feelings you have described- though I am getting through them now and once where there was a tunnel I can now see a bright and life-giving light.
I want to look at this statement you made:
“I want to want to but some people feel like it would be better to be alone than be with someone you don’t like or who doesn’t like you. I don’t feel that way.”
I spent years and years rationlising and minimising and convincing myself that a barely there on again, off again relationship was better than being alone – better than nothing. I really did think it was better than the alternative, whatever that was – stupid men with bad breath – or whatever else that was also not going to be any use to me.
Yep, I thought, there’s nothing better out there anyway. I was certain I was right. Now I think, well, maybe I will never meet anyone I want to be with and maybe I will. But I know there’s one thing out there that is better than a barely there, on/off, non-commital crap relationship: ME. I am out there.
And so are you.
Ask yourself this: in all honesty, how *not alone* have you actually been while you’ve been involved with this man?
What I came to understand is that I was way more “alone” in the barely there, half in/ half out, on again/off again relationship than I am now that I am officially “alone”, now that he is no more. When you find yourself, you won’t be alone; you’ll be getting you and *your* life back. All these men have for you is “aloneness”. There is no togetherness in relationships where one or t’other is not really in it. You are more *alone* in these relationships than you ever are by yourself becaue there is no true connection. These relationships are inherently lonely and isolating. If that’s the kind of *not alone* you can convince yourself about you maybe as well get a cardboard cut out of George Clooney and be not alone with that (lol!). Seriously though, try not to connect a man that you can stand to be around or who can stand to be around you as being “not alone”. Try to connectwith yourself. Discover yourself and see how fab you are and everything else will take on a whole different hue and will take on something very important – potential for better.
Thank you for your responses everyone. “Special case of worthlessness”…yup, that about covers how I feel about myself. It was a short relapse with him, I was alone for a bit, then dated a few guys and then returned to the pains source. This book that I referred to earlier in my post talks a lot about Attachment Hunger that stems from childhood. It is putting into words the agony that accompanies some people with being “alone” and prevents them from ending a bad relationship…even an attachment to a assclown feels better to me than how invisible and worthless I feel without him. It’s such a weird contradiction about how I feel beautiful and visible when he is on my couch but overall worthless because he never wanted me to be his girlfriend. I guess I never felt it would matter if I had boundaries (made him choose) and he validated that when he told me it wasn’t quite there for him. I had the sense pretty early on that if I expected anything from him, he would walk and I didn’t want him to. I always felt I was the one who would be missing out. Anytime I tried to lay down the law, he would walk (even at the beginning when he didn’t know he could come back). Like he said, I don’t think he was ever that into me or at least not enough to date me but I didn’t and don’t want to accept it. I know it’s a short term vs. long term kinda thing and that you are right, the work is not going to lost on me if I can bare the pain of moving through it. It’s a deeper more primal pain in the short term than the bittersweet pain of obsessing about HIM.
hi, I just wanted to add a comment here on the subject of the books out there on what is essentially being framed as love or romance addiction, codependence, and programs to deal with these. I’ve read every single one of them, and every other relationship/he’s-just-not-into-you/get-your-ex-back/after-the-breakup thing on the shelf of barnes&noble. I also joined an actual support group for a couple months, where the philosophy adhered to was that we were all helpless love addicts, and that it was “our disease” that caused the withdrawal. I never bought into it for a moment. maybe it works for some people. hey, I wish them only the best, and don’t want to disparage anything that exists to help people in pain. I think there are people who do have anxiety, obsessive, and other disorders related to relationships, and they really need help. but I am so thankful that someone pointed me to Baggage Reclaim, because for my money, *this* is the way to go! instead of agreeing I had no control over changing my emotional state, something in the tone here right away made me feel I *could* get over it. a lightbulb did go on: I had to get to the bottom of whatever caused 25+ years of EU relationships, I needed an explanation for what the hell that was, and to deal with my grief without succumbing to some sort of victim-mentality I didn’t believe in. it’s up to *me* to take the responsibility for my well-being. the power is within *me* to change my EUMmagnet-superpowers into Truly Available Woman, who can leap over tall buildings of A**clowns faster than a speeding bullet, etc. I’m not there yet, but for the first time ever, I fully expect to reach my goal: that I will not get demolished in the future if someone rejects me romantically. that’s an exciting thought!
anoosh
I agree that there’s a danger of “over-medicalising” our problems. I’ve known “alcoholics” who have been sober for 20+ years who still refer to themselves as alcholics and see themselves as basket cases (to put it bluntly). That would be like me constantly referring to myself as a recovering fallback girl. I’m not, I’m am absolutely not that woman anymore!
Life’s tough enough without us victimising ourselves.
Lisa
I see you are very stuck. Try this theory for size:
“The only reason I like him is because he rejects me”.
Him being an AC is not about you . What IS about you? You picked him. And when he turned out to be, surprise, surprise, an AC you wanted him even more.
I’m the control experiment – I was happier out of a relationship than in one. I preferred long distance relationhips cos I got to spend more time alone. HOWEVER, I still ended up with EUMs/ACs. Why? Because a) I could NOT STAND being rejected but b) I always ended up in rejection-situations because of my compulsion to “win”. Rejection sparked my interest (to say the least). A man just liking me for myself without any drama absolutely did not.
Lisa – the couples you know in healthy happy relationships do not parkate in this nonsense gameplaying (for that is what it is, however, you dress it up). You need to give it up.
Lisa,
I can relate to a lot of what you’re saying. When I look at the guys who have been interested in me in the past two years – while I’ve been in love with the MM – they barely register for me. It’s not even little things I can pick out about their character or looks, I just don’t feel it…so I get it.
But I also know that we have to give ourselves some breathing room – we are both clearly knee deep in feelings for someone else (both of whom don’t treat us the way we should be treated, nor do we get anything close to what we need from them), so we’re not open to falling for someone else. It’s not fair to the other guys out there or to ourselves to expect to have feelings for someone else when our hearts are elsewhere. That space is currently filled, and that’s okay, but we have to recognize what that means for the meantime.
Like you, I’m in withdrawal from my ex…I miss him, I need him to feel complete, and my mind and body are all out of whack without him. I too have the feeling of “if he’d only come back, even if he gave me crumbs again and put me through the same anxiety and tears and longing as before, at least I’d have him more than I do now…at least it’s better than nothing.” And right now, that might be true…but if we can move past these toxic relationships and can let go of these feelings, we will be open to someone else who can fulfill us completely. We obviously haven’t met that person yet, but I can’t give up hope that one day I’ll be sitting in a coffee shop, maybe even reading this site, and a man will sit down beside me and I’ll get butterflies, just like I did with the MM.
But I know that I have to give myself this grieving time and let myself cry and miss him and maybe even relapse on NC. One of my favorite sayings is, “You haven’t had enough until you’ve had enough…and if you’re still there, you haven’t had enough.” If you’re not there yet, it’s okay – there’s no set timeline, and we learn through our own pain. Just know that you’re not alone, as I’m in the same place as you…even though I know it’s not healthy, I want him back more than I’ve ever wanted anything in my life. I hope we can both move past this place, and one day look back on these posts and reflect on how far we’ve come.
“But I know that I have to give myself this grieving time and let myself cry and miss him and maybe even relapse on NC.”
Bri, I absolutely agree about giving yourself the time and space to heal and grieve the end of the relationship. I would, however, be really careful about giving yourself “permission” to relapse on NC. I read in Mr. Unavailable and The Fallback Girl (if you don’t have it, get it – it’s really and truly amazing) that part of what keeps Fallback Girls in Fallback Mode is “rendering ourselves hopeless”., i.e. “I’m not entirely sure I’ll be able to stay NC, so I’m going to expect to perhaps relapse.” I think it would be much better for you to say, “Even though NC won’t be easy, I KNOW I have it in me to make better choices! Plus, this jackass just isn’t special enough for me to waste my precious time speaking to.” Give yourself more credit – I know you are hurting now, but I also think you’re a very intelligent lady who obviously has a lot going for her. I know how hard it is, as I was in a 5 year boomerang debacle with an unmarried, but awful AC. Talk yourself up and believe that you can do it!! *Hugs*
Thanks Bri. I know what you mean about feeling like you might need to hit “rock bottom” before you can really walk away but I also hear what Natasha is saying about giving yourself permission on some level by expecting to relapse in order to feel fed up. I keep telling myself “I guess I haven’t had enough yet” and my therapist once told me that I am letting myself off the hook by saying this. But I guess all the wisdom and advice in the world won’t help if you are not commited to yourself and making changes. For me, it’s the avoidance of the short term (which I don’t feel will be that short) pain vs. the potential long term gain (which I don’t think I have totally bought into). For me, I believe that there have been times over the last three years where I have been in different head spaces and would have loved to have met someone else and felt open to it, it just didn’t happen. The withdrawal is hard…I am finding the silence unbearable at times. I am fighting the frequent urge to reach out to him AGAIN to plead with him and attempt to appeal to that part of him that is humane to acknowledge my existence (I just can’t accept that anyone could be that heartless so there must be a way I can get through to him). I also see that I am unable/unwilling to accept that despite what the facts say, that he did not care about me at all. I keep thinking indignantly, “how could you just walk away and pretend I am dead after 3 years? You are finished with me/onto someone else so now you just leave with no word, goodbye, explanation and you ignore my attempts to contact?” I am begging someone to care about me…that’s where I have gotten to. What would hitting bottom be if this isn’t it? Scary question.
Just another thought about the origins of these hurtful attachments. As I was thinking about pleading with HIM to acknowledge me and wondering and feeling this agonizing feeling attached to the question of “how could you have spent all this time with me, slept with me, eaten with me, cried with me etc. and not care enough to just say that you are moving on or not care about me period?” It made me think of how ineffectual I felt with my mother. I remember feeling like I couldn’t get her to react to me the way I wanted and/or needed her to. It made me feel hard to love and easy to dismiss. It feels similar to my current situation…a little girl saying, “why don’t you love me”? “why can’t I get through to you. you are my mom, I am supposed to be able to melt your heart” but I never could. I am just connecting this now…the memory of my mom being mad at me when I was young and me putting on my red fuzzy bathrobe and grabbing my teddy bear and walking in front of her in hopes my looking cute would make her not be mad at me anymore. But she looked up for a minute and then looked down at her paper again. It’s like the weight loss and the new pants and the hair extensions…maybe he’ll love me now. Intellectually, I know I can’t heal it through any man let alone this unlikely source and I am playing out this drama but emotionally I feel this compulsion to continue.
Lisa, Bri
I don’t think you should allow yourself to hit rock bottom. Rock bottom is where Amy Winehouse and Marilyn Monroe ended up.
While i understand that breakup hurts, don’t completely give into it. You can feel the pain and mourn the loss without throwing yourself off a cliff (figuratively or metaphorically). It’s a break up. Millions have gone through it, are going through it and will go through it and move one. No-one’s died.
There is a certain attraction to feeling a lot of pain, and feeling more pain than other people (“I’m so sensitive!) but you can be a sensitive, empathetic, sympathetic, caring person without having to drag yourself through the gutter of self-loathing and despair.
Lisa,
I’m in the same spot. I fight the incredible urge every day to try and somehow get him back. And I too feel like it’s only been 12 days since my breakup with the MM but that’s already longer than I ever wanted to feel this way. What does “short-term” even mean? How do I know that going through this pain now will benefit me in the future? How can something good come from feeling this badly?
The silence is the hardest part; not only does not talking to the person I love, the person I talked to almost every day for two years, make me feel like my whole world has shifted and I miss him so much, but it also makes me feel like he’s okay without me after he told me he’d never be happy again because I was the only person to ever bring him joy.
You are not alone, I know how you feel and it’s awful – I hope for both of us we can get out of this space and one day, if and when they come back, we can tell them to get lost.
Lisa, that book by Howard Halpern is excellent. It cracked my head open (figuratively speaking), but I finally didn’t *get it* about myself until yesterday when I read Pia Mellody’s “Facing Co-dependence.” I have read Melody Beattie’s books on Co-dependence and they are good, but Pia Mellody’s reaches right into the heart of it for me. Might be of some interest to you, as well. Feeling unworthy (low self-esteem), little or no boundaries, not owning reality, not knowing or being able to distinguish between needs and wants, and the extremes of emotion are the core aspects Pia writes about (as does NML, brilliantly!). I now see how these core aspects have resulted in a rejection of myself. Pia writes a lot about the childhood origins of these core aspects and it can be an overwhelming read, but I found it very apt, and it made the ideas in Halpern’s book make more sense at a gut level. Good luck to you.
Thank you Adrienne. I will check it out.
Anoosh,
I agree that there should be some caution about over pathologizing our relationship issues and falling into a victim or hopeless/helpless role (all things that I can do rather than take action). I did just want to say that the Halpern book I talk about does not take anyone off the hook from taking action in their life but seeks to explain why the attraction is there and why it hurts so much but he says, that once you realize what it is and why it’s there you can coach yourself to move away from it.
Hi Bri,
When I read what you wrote, I have had a lot of the same feelings and thoughts and I remember people saying things like “it’s always the darkest before dawn”. Someone also described the loss of love as a “dark night of the soul”. These things change us and if we do the work, likely for the better. I know it barely puts a dent in the agony and it does feel like agony. Some people talk about taking it one day at a time or even one moment at a time. When you feel really alone or scared or isolated from the pain, it can sometimes be helpful to draw strength from the idea that there are others (like me) who get it and are somewhere else in the world trying to get through their day. I thought of you today and I knew that I wasn’t alone in this pain. I know, it sucks but hopefully this will be of some comfort.
Hi Lisa — I’m familiar w/the HH book, in fact my copy of it is from the 80’s, I believe! I think someone passed it on to me in the mid 90’s, during a painful breakup within the most serious relationship I’ve ever had in my life. also, someone recently gave me the Pia Mellody one called Facing Love Addiction. there are absolutely worthwhile concepts in both, and have given lots of food for thought. in the latter, there is a description of the dynamic between the Love Addict/”Love Avoidant” that rang alotta bells for me. whatever helps people to unhook themselves from unhealthy relationships and create new patterns, I’m happy for those things. however, I can only speak for myself, dating seriously for 25+ years (!), and none of the self-help books ever gave the kind of breakthroughs I’ve been experiencing on Baggage Reclaim the past 4 months. I think Natalie has struck something like gold, and I’m finding each week that goes by I’m *getting it* more & more. I don’t think I will ever be able to delude myself ever again about any man — or friendship for that matter, a number of which are under my review at the moment. 🙂
I’m grieving the end of a 7-8 year affair . I haven’t seem him for a year and we kept in touch up until a month ago by phone and texts (mainly). I’m finding it hard to move on.
The thing that’s confusing me is I was married twice and both husbands left me for their ‘mistresses’. My first husband left after a 3 year marriage for a female at his work. They were together for 15 years and had a child. My second husband left me and my 7 year old daughter after 9 years of being together- it turned out she had even a 5 year old child to him. Sixteen years later and they’re still together. I was devastated after both divorces But ,when I looked around some of my friends also experienced being left for other women -the divorce courts are full of cases of adultery and people meeting someone else thed prefer to be with. So I suppose what I’m saying is it isn’t always black and white that men/women wont leave who they are with if they meet someone they fall more in love with. According to the comments here Ive been ‘shafted’ and I’m ‘selfish’. However I had some of my happiest times with my MM. His children from his first wife were grown up so that wasn’t exactly an issue. I never thought I would have an affair and be a ‘mistress’ and I regret very much that his wife was hurt. Yet I don’t totally regret falling in love with him .
It just seems like you really cant have total guarantees – life can be messy-and you cant be complacent even if your’e married and have a child. Your’e boundaries and values can…
Layla
I hear what you’re saying and yes life can be messy and sometimes he will leave his wife. But in my experience (yes a man did leave his wife for me unfortunately) it happens quickly, I would say within three to six months. Seven to eight years is out of the ballpark. In Bri’s case – two years is entirely too much, especially for a young woman. Time just passes slower when you’re young.
Reading your comment, what strikes me isn’t “Cool, men do leave their wives for other women” but “Poor Layla, two duds and now a third dud”. It’s not your fault that these men have proven to be unreliable but the way out of your predicament isn’t to throw your lot in with dubious beliefs but to understand that the best chance two people have is when they are both single and looking for a proper relationship. It’s taken me a long time to get that but finally I have.
If you remain in contact with this man you won’t get over him. And it’s best if you don’t know what happens after the breakup. If you can avoid it, it’s best not to know if he got married had kids etc. Luckily for me, I’ve moved around a lot and have no kids with the exes so I’ve no clue what happened to them and they don’t know what happened to me. It’s better that way.
And you’ve no way of knowing (I hope!) how good, bad or indifferent your exes’ marriages turned out. Though we know one got divorced. So it’s not great odds.
Thanks Grace, I really appreciate your’e comment. I realize now i’d ‘thrown my lot in with dubious values’.Practically all my life. This post and especially the comments really woke me up. I think I’m finally getting it ! I plan to be a lot wiser about choices and being aware of and standing by my boundaries in the future, (better late than never)
I agree completely with Grace on this; if he’s going to leave he’s going to do it fast, not malinger around for years saying he’ll leave and not doing it. The guy who’s going to leave is the one who decides pretty quickly that this is what he’s doing and he actually does it – soon. These are the exceptions but men don’t often have affairs cos they want to end their marriage but cos they want to have an affair. That’s my view. I’m sorry Layla if my ‘OW/selfish’ comment seemed harsh… we all have different experiences of similar situations – but after my thing with an MM I felt, eventually, that I’d been v selfish and I was ashamed of myself. I don’t speak for everyone. All the best to you.
Anyway… am sorry Nat, this is not really on topic.
Bri
I’m new to this site but have been reading every post after my recent break up/NC with MM. I just saw my therapist and she said somehting that I haven’t read on this site yet. She said MM was Emotionally Dangerous. I described everything and the parking lot incident and she pointed out that my interaction s with him send me into a tailspin and I am unable to function. It is in fact putting yourself in emotional danger to have contact because you are unable to heal and risk repeating the cycle. Evene if some men do leave for the OW, the OW still always has a little bit (or a lot) of doubt about whwther she will be left. You only see surface things, like number of years married, and not whether they have been happy and fulfilling years. Your best chance for a long-lasting, happy relationship is with someone who is not attached when you begin the relationship.
I am beginning to see my ex Mr EUM as *emotionally dangerous*. He would be appalled if I told him that! I am appalled to think that it has some truth in it. Are they really emotionally dangerous or is it that we are just emotionally pathetic?!! I don’t know the answer
hopefully not emotionally pathetic, but perhaps emotionally vulnerable. these men wouldn’t be good for even the most resilient, confident women but they wouldn’t be dangerous because these women wouldn’t give them the time of day!
I agree. I think that they are emotionally dangerous to us because we are vulnerable to them for whatever reason. I told my therapist that he was like cocaine to me and she said, “at this point, I think you’d be better off doing coke”. This is how poisonous she feels he is to me.
Michelle,
So true. Even when I told my MM, also in a parking lot (I mean seriously, how similar can these situations gets?!) that I hoped he’d come back one day, he told me that if he was ready to do so, he’d find me no matter what. Did that make me feel better? No, it actually made me feel rejected all over again because it wasn’t the answer I wanted. Like you, I went into a tailspin and cried for hours.
My therapist has told me the same thing – that maybe the OW situation works for some people, but it’s clear that I’m not one of those people. Due to my past, and past “rejections” by numerous people, I need someone I can trust 100%, who makes me their #1 priority and that will never be him. It’s hard separating your head from your heart when you’re in pain, though…
Bri
Yes, I am growing to hate that parking lot, LOL. I wish he would get a new car already so that I wouldn’t be able to tell when he’s around!
izzybell is right, I (and you also right now it seems) are emotionally vulnerable and so these men, in our situations, at this time in our lives are dangerous. When we grow more confident we will be not be affected so deeply by the MMs actions. You need to fight, really fight, for yourself and your life. Read BR whenever you think of him (it’s really helping me) and be true to yourself–you KNOW deep in your heart that you want and deserve a relationship where you are the only one.
Grace- You asked me why did I pick them. Probably because I wanted to get away from my over controlling, verbally abusive father. I’m 24 you would think that my parents would want an empty nest, but all I get is screaming and verbal abuse from them. The Only reason I haven’t left is money. And I wanted to go back to school.
Unfortunately, if you have found yourself in unavailable relationships, especially as a Fallback Girl (or guy), you have some major issues with rejection, either taking it too hard and being derailed by it, or busting a gut to ensure that you don’t experience it, even though you actually are.
I was derailed and took it very hard when my dad rejected me and I think this has kept me busting a gut with guys so I never want to feel those feelings again.
Denial plays a large part in this too because as you state when you are busting a gut to ensure you don’t experience rejection you already are but I have refused to see and feel and carried on flogging the dead horse.
I do know that not all rejection is personal and stopped taking things to the nth degree a long time ago except with romantic relationships these are my undoing, and why I make a willing fallback girl no matter what the guy has done I return.
This is why I have to start to love myself and pick myself up and carry on because there is nothing fundamentally wrong with me because people choose to end things with me just as there was nothing wrong with me when my dad made his decsion to live his life without me in it.
I remember someone said that they wanted to breakup with their parents. I would love to to this. Natalie what do you do when your own parents tell you need a man just to do anythIng?
Fed-up,
what you do is you don’t believe them! Cos it’s not true! You’re an autonomous adult. Remind your parents of that. You need your independence. Move out of their house. Find a way and do it. That’s my view for what it’s worth!
I could not have found this website at a better time. This article gave me a wake up call. I ended a one year LDR with someone who did not care about me as much as I thought he did. He used me. I don’t miss him, I don’t want to be with him, and I would be okay not talking to him even though he said we were on a break and wanted to be friends. I was upset and still am. Fast forward to last week: met a great guy, we were kissing and I told him that I was not sure if I was ready to date, he took this as rejection. I sent him a FB message telling him that I liked him and that I did not want to waste time and asked him out on a date. He rejected me. I was upset but understood why he turned me down. We agreed to be friends, but it was definitely an eye-opener.
My anger at my ex was preventing me from having fulfilling relationships and has kept me from moving on. It took rejection to make me see this and realizing that I screwed up badly, and now I feel like I can actually make progress in terms of getting over my ex and hopefully it will lead to more fulfilling relationships. There is always a silver lining and rejection can be a good thing.
Here is something that someone has said to me that is helping me reframe my thinking on rejection. We often have very severe pain around rejection because we have years of hurt from previous rejections that have piled up. So when we perceive someone is rejecting us we feel incredible pain that is not just the pain of the particular event, but pain from many years. But changing our inner dialogue can help. Instead of saying, “they are rejecting me, so something must be wrong with me, I am no good, etc.” and therefore going into a mode of self-blame, ask a question instead: “What did they do that was inappropriate?” I’ve applied this to a few events in my life and it has brought great understanding. As a teenager in school, being teased about your looks becomes a question, “What did they do that was inappropriate?” and an answer “they are rude.” On the topic here of EUs and AC, ask yourself, what did he or she do that was inappropriate? Try not to go into automatic thought patterns of self-blame and self-rejection. What they did or said does not translate into there being something wrong with you.
@Michelle – 37 years and a pretty good brain and I have never thought of it in quite that way. Why have I always assumed others knew better than me what my worth or value was? Wow. Thank you!
With Mr EU was definitely trying to avoid rejection, I was Nat:
“busting a gut to ensure that you don’t experience it, even though you actually are.”
The one thing I experienced with him more than anything else was *rejection*; it was like living a broken heart. So I can see that while I was trying to avoid rejection I WAS actually being rejected -constantly, so I wasn’t avoiding it, not one little bit. All of this was not entirely lost on me at the time: I would say to him (probably by email or text!), more than once, ‘you’ve been rejecting me every day of my life, for years’. Of course for some reason, I thought, or hoped, that if I could make him undersand how he made me feel that he would stop doing it and do something else instead! Pigs might fly, but they don’t.
So what I was actually doing was this:
“repeatedly throwing myself under the same rejection bus because I didn’t want to deal with the pain of accepting his choice or his treatment of me”.
Of course, He did not want to make a choice – part of my problem was thinking that so long as he didn’t made a choice to commit or not to commit, then he might still choose to commit! There was always the possibility (in my mind) that he had still to choose one or the other and get off the fence – no choices were ver made. I don’t have a huge problem, I don’t think, in accepting someone’s CHOICE, so long as that choice is made and made clear and is consistent. What I have is trouuble when he WON’T choose because (in my mixed up head) that still leaves all possibilities open.
The EUM has still not “ended” it. If I wanted to press re-set, I could be pressing it. I have ended it, in so far as I am not engaging with him. It’s weird – nothing has been said by either of us about “ending” anything, which makes me think that from his point of view there must have been nothing to end! What kind of ending is that – one minute your speaking the next minute you’re not and when enough time passes we can both tacitly understand that it’s over?? That’s be the end then! WTF is that all about! But I know the important thing anyway is that it is over for me, however it comes about. This post makes me understand why I didn’t fold. Rejecction avoidance. Pah! When I was actually fired more times than a circus cannon!
And now having read NML’s reply to Lisa, I am reminded that of course my Mr EUM didn’t *choose* – he didn’t have to choose. He was having me anyway! So I could hardly feel rejected by his “choice” when he was never pressed to make one. So I felt repeatedly rejected by his treatment of me instead and of his failure to choose me even though he didn’t have to choose – and he was choosing me actually, just on his terms, which felt like rejection cos I new the terms were a bad deal fo me. The whole thing with these “relationships” is just a big can of misery-making worms – it’s horrendous. No wonder it’s such a painfully hard task to unravel ourselves from it all.
“So I felt repeatedly rejected by his treatment of me instead and of his failure to choose me even though he didn’t have to choose – and he was choosing me actually, just on his terms, which felt like rejection cos I new the terms were a bad deal for me.”
Thank you Fearless, for that. This sentence perfectly describes the scenario I am fighting my way out of…I need a good dose of this truth serum daily!!
Another thought I read on a friend’s status update today really resonated: “Adversity gives birth to Fear or Courage. Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the overcoming of fear.” So I take that as, when I am met with rejection, or resistance, I won’t make choices out of fear (of avoiding pain or facing the truth), but face everything and pass through it with a clear head and heart…which also means having the courage to be alone instead of attending to any fool who comes along and says one half-ass nice word.
Yes, Lila,
I think our choices were borne out of fear – avoidance of facing the fear of rejection, which we were experiencing anyway! That’s the irony. We have to dump the fear and embrace the courage. I believe that it’ the fear of something unpleasant happening that keeps us stuck and avoiding it. Once the thing has happened it’s like, bingo! I don’t need to fear this any more because it’s happened, so now I can just get on with it – minus the fear! I think that’s why some people say things like ‘when he finally walked out for good, the thing that I’d feared for so long, it actually came as a blessed relief!’ I still some days feel so free! Because the fear of losing the EUM for good has gone. Cos he’s gone.
Fired more times than a circus canon…awesome! I get the pervasive hope that he will choose you one day Fearless. I swear, I would buy a new pair of pants that looked good on me and thought to myself, “maybe if he see’s me in these pants he’ll love me”. Oy. I know undying hope is generally a good thing but in these cases, it really should die a violent and expedient death.
Lisa,
yep, I get the ‘pants’ thing.I did similar, he paid attention – until he’d had the sex then the ‘pants’ didn’t matter anymore! And I had to think of better ‘pants’!! Lol. I kinda stopped thinking that anything like that would make a difference a long time ago!
This is interesting:
“I get the pervasive hope that he will choose you one day Fearless.”
Natalie too warned me that I must draw an EMPHATIC line under the ex Mr EUM relationship. All I can say is that getting beyond the “pervasive hope” is what trying to free yourself from these relationships is about much of the time (for me anyway). It’s all tied in with the working on myself, avoiding the “rejection” feelings, raising my self esteem, maintaining my boundaries and quashing the drive for validation (from him). I understand totally the emphatic line / ditch all “hope” thing – but if I could have done that easily in a few minutes flat, it woud have been done years ago. I get that drawing an emphatic line in your mind helps you to get closure and move forward and I have, as much as I know how, drawn that line in my mind… sometimes the line goes squiggly! And then I try to straighten it out again. And I do.
I now know that I do not want to go back to that place with the EUM or with anyone else, EVER, but some of the emotions about it still find their way to the surface and are still hard to deal with, and yes, probably the hope-habit is a hard one to break; I lived off it for ten years with this guy! The difference now is that I do deal with these emotions. I fight them hard. I don’t go running back to him for more rejection and validation and crap. I stay and I fight. I think, in the main, my head is in reality, and when it slips out of it, I now at least know where reality is and how to get back there! I don’t harbour hope, not consciously anyway.
I don’t think it’s any exaggeration to say that to get yourself back from these painful ‘relationships’ you really do have to fight very hard – for a long time.
I’ve enjoyed your comments Lisa – Good luck.
You have done some really hard work which is amazing and courageous.
This made me think about the relationship between avoiding rejection, and picking men who tell you what you want to hear at the expense of the truth. I think if I were not as sensitive about being “rejected” and all I make it mean about me I would be quicker to read the signs and throw in the towel when things are not working for me, less likely to accept words that aren’t matched by action, and promises not backed up with plans. And, less likely to ruminate about it when the relationship ends.
I say that I prefer people to be direct and authentic even if it hurts me, but in dating my fear of rejection has invisibly sent a different message: “Don’t tell me what’s really going on, I don’t want to hear it, don’t leave, don’t hurt me.” This, paired with dating men who have no insight into themselves and limited courage and integrity, ends up causing me more pain and wasting more time than just accepting that it’s not working out. No matter how much I complain about my ex’s future faking I now realize that I was complicit by choosing the fantasy of our potential future over clearly seeing and acting on the here-and-now reality that made me feel uneasy and was built on a less-than-healthy dynamic.
Being afraid of being “rejectionable” has fueled my choice in EUM’s– men who are out of touch with themselves and self-centered, willing to say anything they need to to get what they want, and incapable (or unwilling) of being consistent, clear and up front about their true capacity for or interest in a long term committed relationship with me. It almost makes me laugh to see how I pick these men, inevitably reject them, and then suffer horribly!
Thank you for this article. I had never really looked at the rejection issue as a reason why i would continue to put myself out there (i.e. in a situation that had *no go* all over it from the outset). It has helped me realise that I am trying to chase a feeling to stop me actually accepting the hurt that it is over. Throw in a few other things (low self esteem, bad experiences with men, absent dad etc) and you have me going back and forth like a boomerang muttering – I *will* make it work (repeat x infinite). Somewhere along the line I picked up the idea that I have to do all the running in a relationship and the other person just has to show up. Sometimes. Dangerous thinking.
I was in a situation very recently and my friend (happily married, never had any problems with men) listened very carefully to a long drawn out story and just summed it up with “you need to listen to what he is saying, he is saying – it is not going to happen for various reasons” and that I needed to focus on the “its not going to happen part” and not the rest of the conversation. In the past I would have spent energy thinking about his motivations, what if x, what if y, why, why why. If I did x or y then maybe it will be different. Or basically hear the bit that I am liked and ignore the more painful, its not gonna work.
What amazes me is that some people can do this almost automatically – it’s like the self preservation part of me just hasn’t developed/doesn’t exist. Well, I am going to try really hard to take the advice and emotionally opt out of something that doesn’t exist. (or rather only exists for me)…..
Well, I finally “rejected” my OM….made it short & sweet after I realized I didn’t want to “compartmentalize” within relationships anymore. I want to be “all in” or “all out”. I know it’s the right thing to do for me, but, of course, I’m bummed that he hasn’t responded since i did it a few days ago…Now “I” feel rejected!!! I know it’s reality setting in after ripping off the bandaid. I know that it’s best since he’s not that into me anyway & continuing it would drive me batty, but it still feels like crap. I’m going to just keep reminding myself that it is best to NOT be in any relationship that you can’t be fully self expressed for a myriad of reasons. I don’t want to live & love like that. Just miss the “crummy crumbs” like everyone else. Did I just say I miss “crummy crumbs”???!!!! Hahaha!
PS it has taken me close to 3 years to “reject” this relationship. I wanted to say, I am not rejecting him, I am rejecting the relationship as it does not make me happy. I don’t think I would have had the clarity to distinguish that if it weren’t for Natalie & her literature. If you are stuck & really need help, I recommend all of Natalie’s books. They have seen me through some dark days indeed…
@Eternal Summer
There’s no way to know how he’s feeling but speaking as a twice OW, I was heartbroken when I was broken up with but never showed it and didn’t initiate contact out of pride and also genuinely wanting him to be happy, and if happy was with his wife then so be it. The best thing you can do for him, if you care at all, is to continue NC. If he’s married then it will force him to look deeply at his marriage and if he’s single he can move on, which is what this blog is all about.
Just read this entry twice (may have to read it again at least once more). Thinking about abandonment & rejection as 2 separate things, hmmmm. Good food for thought.
“I’m pretty sure I used to get abandonment and rejection confused hence why I’d feel so terrible – they’re two different things…..”
I’ve just read this entry again too. It is always wise to read Nat’s posts a few times as you see things – or get them – second time round that didn’t quite register first time. For example:
“the overwhelming majority of people I witness struggling with ‘rejection’, are struggling with feeling that they weren’t up to ‘standard’ for someone and a relationship that they shouldn’t have been available for in the first place.” [Etc…]
Yes, Nat. Exactly! I tink most of us on here can admit to this being the case. But we don’t get it at the time. I felt rejected constantly by the EUM…until I finally came to entertain the novel, ground-breaking idea that maybe I shouldn’t be making myself available for this crap, at all! (and of course the thing is I should *never* have been available for it.) You are so right – we choose someone who we can see from very early on is offering us a ‘rejectionable’ situation, we walk right into it and are then surprised when we are and feel rejected! We don’t realise, oddly, just how much we are setting ourselves up for exactly what we imagine we are trying to avoid. Bizarre.
It’s kind of like we are actually driving the metaphorical car – we are behind the wheel but like an idiot we are not following the road signs, we are ignoring them; we are very bad drivers; despite all the signs clearly pointing us in the right, and safe, direction to our deired destination, we head the wrong way up the motorway and wonder why we get dog’s abuse from other drivers and are run off the road or involved in a disasterous head on collision with our inevitable fate. We are like tragic heroines in a Greek play. My fall, my fate with the EUM, just as much as with the MM (all those years ago) was inevitable – and all driven by my own bad judgements. I see that now and it makes it much easier to bear, oddly, to know that I was actually in control – just very badly! And that it wasn’t random; I was not a victim of unrequited love or an EUM; I created the circumstances that set me up for ‘rejection’ and in doing so, it was really me, rejecting me. It is great comfort to me somehow to see that all I really need to do is to take better care of myself, know I am worth taking the right road for – and read the bloody signs! That I can do. I am very hopeful for me. I have learned so much from you Natalie and I thank you very, very much.
Fearless…thank you for your post. I’ve seen the signs too and I have chosen to ignore them for whatever reason, sometimes I didnt even know why. But I’ve been pondering this particular blog for the past few days. I’m wondering, how can I make myself have self esteem? I’ve come to the conclusion that I cant. But what I can do is not ignore the ‘signs’, stay true to my boundaries, get out if my gut tells me to, and to take action in going after what I want while continuously pushing back the feeling that I am not worthy or ‘cant’ do it. I’m actually amazed that I’ve gotten as far ahead in life as I have with such low self esteem, that goes for other aspects, not romance. I’m completely over my last eum, I dont have to try to have nc, I realistically dont think very much of him as a person. I dont care who he dates, I know what they are getting. One of my friends who dated a lot of eum/ac is getting married this weekend, she finally found her ‘good’ guy. I’ve been thinking about the guys she dated and I think ‘how dare they not have valued her’. She is a winner by everyones count, and these losers had the nerve not to treat her right. I love this website, it was like a ‘come to Jesus’ moment when I found it.
SM:
“how can I make myself have self esteem? I’ve come to the conclusion that I cant.”
Oh dear! Start with dumping the “can’t” word! It’s the first sign of the low-self esteem. Never use it again – switch it for “CAN”! or “WILL”!
Self esteem is a self *belief* – not a character trait. You CAN change your beliefs about anything – people do it all the time! So you CAN change your belief about yourself. You are inherently as valuable and worthy a human being as any one of us, you need to teach yourself to believe that. And you CAN 🙂
This week on BR has been tearful and enlightening for me in so many ways. Self-esteem. It is interesting how I have attached my apparent value on outward acheivements, appearance, even the behavior of my children, that somehow in the year that have passed (most of my life), I missed the central meaning of the concept–which is believing that I can DRIVE my own life. The contributing factors are multiple and tangled at this juncture in my life, but I have to attribute a major factor to my parents and upbringing. As a parent this idea is particularly disturbing to me, as I think “what am I going to do to eff up my girls?” My parents, while well intentioned and wonderful people, where also legalistic and managed to communicate to me in their style of parenting that my feelings weren’t as important as their ideals, and the family unit as a whole. While I think ideals and family untiy are important, their unintentional overkill led me, as an extraordinarily sensitive child, to feel firstly that I shouldn’t have REAL needs in a relationship, and secondly that any feelings/needs I had were low on the list of priorites. So, I chose as a partner for a husband (and dated countless others) someone who wouldn’t acknowledge my needs as legitimate and would expect me to subjugate my desires/needs to his own. This felt normal to me, but I always languished, just like I did as a child, waiting for someone to notice that I was emotionally starving. And because I didn’t ask for what I needed initially, it felt normal for me to let someone else “drive” my life and relationships, because I didn’t know how to do it or feel comfortable in even defining a locus of control. Now I realize that while I should grieve this loss I experienced as a child, it is important to recognize and change the pattern. Wow…and I CAN do it.
This post was right on the mark. I’m realising my own immaturity, playing the ‘victim of rejection’ role, instead of facing up to the fact that I rejected myself and let myself down in not asserting my boundaries and letting some narcissistic weirdo push my buttons to feed his ego, and not taking care of myself; and that’s something that I alone am responsible for, which is actually great.
The hard part is forgiving myself for making a mistake, and not falling into the trap of using the fact that it was a mistake as an excuse to confirm inner shitness, but seeing it as a golden first hand lesson in red flag readership and an experience that helped me develop an intolerance to knobbery. God, daddy issues are so bloody annoying though.
Good luck to everyone
I’m feeling very rejected and hurt by what I’ve learned through this site is an EUM & bonafide Assclown. I married my highschool sweetheart after dating for over 10 years, and after 10 years of marriage and 2 kids, divorced him due to mental abuse and the fact he was literally turning into a crazy person. (putting spyware on my laptop, tape recorders in my car and house, even parking up the street and hiding in the shower or my son’s closet). I spent a year recoverying from my guilt of the divorce, and trying to earn back my self esteem. Because this guy was my HIGHSCHOOL sweetheart, I hadn’t dated many guys at all, and now, turning 40 later this year, felt clueless about the dating scene. The 1st guy I dated went on for almost 8 months (we didn’t see each other much) and he would never touch me so I told him we just needed to remain on the friend front. The 2nd was a guy I graduated HS with, and out of the blue invited me on a trip he won through work to Cabo San Lucas Mexico! It was our “first date” and I did go and had fun, even though didn’t think he was much my type. After trying to date him for a few months, I found out he had a girlfriend LIVING with him the entire time! Then, this past July I met the assclown. We met on a dating site and things went FAST! There was nothing about him I didn’t like! Great looking, a dad, great job, very polite, made lots of efforts to call, text, see me, come over….Now I know he was a fast forwarder, and I tried to keep a wall up to some degree but had NEVER felt so intensely about ANYONE that quickly, so after having goosebumps everyday by his comments & him telling me he loved me, I gave my heart up completely. It all came to screeching hault 2 fridays ago when a friend of mine followed me and drove 40 min. to “his” town to hang at “his” places, when within the hour, he started an arguement w/ her and before I knew it, told me to get her & leave! I didn’t understand what was even happening, but I left, and he came outside and yelled at me again! His friend drove my car to his apartment, as I was so upset I threw up. I ended up crashing into a tree, causing over $3000 damage to my car (luckily not hurt), AND got stopped at a sobreity check, although I passed the test! I sent him a text picture of my car and told him what happened, only to get his response of “don’t blame me for…
Hi out there!A girlfreind told me about this site and I think its amazing!
I am having a hard time right now as the Guy I was in a relationship for 5 months did the disapperaing act on me..No call,nothing…I of course called,begged for an answer,closure,,,all to no avial..I am trying to get the strength to find the closure for myself,but its so hard…Why do guys do this?Did I mention,there was no fight before,no other woman,I was so blindsided….
brenda
I think you have to close it yourself.
Friend of a friend made plans with her boyfriend to rent a house so they could live together. They moved in. Then he tells her he doesn’t love her. He dumps her. She has to move out. Now she wants closure as it was all out of the blue. I’m thinking surely he’s made it plain that he a) hes an ass and b) he wants out. What else is there to know. Does it really help to be told that he doesn’t fancy you/hates your snoring/ doesn’t see you as the mother of his children/ is bored/ can’t be bothered/ needs to shag around.
Disappearing falls into that category. He wants out. Let him go. The few women here who HAVE hunted the man down for an explanation always end up with a half-assed excuse which leaves them wanting yet more closure. Or worse, they end up being insulted or as a booty call.
You always have to close it yourself. He’s got nothing to do with that. Even if he did grace you with a perfectly worded honest and truthful explanation, it’s only over when YOU accept YOURSELF that it’s over. The words that come out of his mouth are not that useful. Half the time we’re barely listening anyway (even though we pride ourselves on our communication skills).