What’s so bad about saying that we like and love ourselves? Or, what’s so bad about saying that we would like to get to know ourselves and evolve our relationship to one that comes from a place of healthier self-esteem and personal security? Doesn’t this benefit everyone all round? Isn’t this better than looking for romantic partners and other people in our lives, to fill voids or even parent us? Isn’t this better than rocking up to relationships expecting this person to tell us who we are and validate us?
What’s so bad about saying “I’m OK” or “I like and accept myself”?
When did things get so bad that being self-aware, having some self-worth and self-compassion, along with internalising our accomplishments, achievements and deeds, became a source of embarrassment and shame?
Some people teach shame.
They teach us to feel wrong, bad, and humiliated. When we were little, we may have been told that “good girls” or “good boys” don’t take pride in who they are because it’s “showing off”. Or maybe they said it will make people uncomfortable, envious or jealous. We may have gotten into the habit of dimming our light to fit in with or boost others. We may associate even the teensiest kind thought or action of self-appreciation as “selfish”, “uppity” or “self-involved”. It may be embedded in us as a default reaction to fear thinking decently of ourselves or thinking independently in case we cause embarrassment and problems.
Even though we’re grown-ups and know that the teachings are wrong, we remain loyal to the pattern out of fear of betraying and upsetting the proverbial applecart. This habit keeps us small.
Sometimes this happens because the person is trying to squash us because they then get to feel big or certainly less inadequate.
Often, though, they think they’re teaching us protective life lessons designed to spare us from a bigger pain that they imagine for us.
Reading stories from readers and students who are people pleasers or who just quite simply don’t like themselves, there was this recurring theme:
Often, when a person projects their fears and perspective onto us through criticism or distorted talk and ‘lessons’, it’s their way of not only protecting us from, for example, failing or being ridiculed, but also about controlling us. That person can feel in control and fit in with whoever they’re trying to please. They may have wanted us to toe the line so that they looked good to the community, parish, family, etc. This person was/is in their own pattern.
In being taught shame whether it was directly or inferred, when we continue with the same habits of thinking and behaviour rather than getting conscious, aware, and present and choosing what to continue with from the past, we reteach and reinforce that shame. A shame, I might add, that isn’t our burden to carry.
When we say, “I like and accept myself” or similar, we’re not saying that we’re narcissists or aspiring to be. For that to be the case, we’d have to be in very shallow relationships that rely on collecting “supply” and crushing others to big ourselves up. It would mean doing things with brute force and trickery. It would mean having an overinflated sense of our own importance that’s reliant on having very little self-awareness never mind empathy.
We’re also not saying that we don’t want to evolve. We can accept ourselves and know where we want to grow. Instead of doing it from a place of being self-critical and even cruel, we do it with respect and awareness.
If more of us expanded our awareness, it would deepen our relationships and impact on how we felt within our experiences.
This is especially because our viewpoint changes when we stop wearing a low self-esteem lens.
We can often be afraid to have an honest conversation with ourselves and to listen and respond kindly. We avoid journaling practices like keeping a Feelings Diary or writing Unsent Letters. The very activities we avoid in our self-care are the ones that help us release ourselves from the bind of anger, pain, and resentment and allow us to be the driver of changing our narrative on experiences from the past that inform our self-image.
There can be a fear of taking ownership because when we’re so used to feeling a certain way, continuing as is feels safer. We can avoid our personal responsibility. The past is known whereas the future isn’t. We lose our mojo with the self-work if it doesn’t generate instant or fast results. And so we go back to repeating what we already know doesn’t work while secretly accepting failure.
There is another way. It is OK to be OK.
We are allowed to evolve our internal dialogue and relationship to a more positive one. Really, the only people who would truly object to us doing this are those who feel threatened by the change. They see our growth as questioning their world view or resent that we will no longer play our role.
Having a healthier relationship with ourselves means our mental, emotional, physical and spiritual health will reap the benefit. We will also come at our relationships from a place of love, care, trust and respect.
We cannot truly know that we are liking, loving, respecting, trusting, and caring for others until we are familiar with this within ourselves.
- People who like others while hating themselves, like from a place of loathing. They like for the wrong reasons because they feel inferior. That’s not a mutual relationship, and in order to feel inferior, we have to judge. Whether we feel superior or inferior, what we can be sure of is that we’re acting as if our beliefs and perceptions are accurate.
Who is to say that our comparison and judgement measuring tape is accurate?
- People who love others while having very little love for themselves, cross into codependency. They may also unwittingly look for these people to fill voids or to help in some sort of reenactment of the past so that they can try to right the wrongs of it. They look for salvation.
- People who claim to respect others while at the same time disrespecting themselves are often unaware of where they’re crossing boundaries—their own and others people’s.
- People who trust others while lacking self-trust invariably bust their own boundaries due to lack of self-reliance and overriding vital inner information. They trust others to pass the buck. They also trust on the basis of not believing in the value of their own word and judgement.
- People who care about others while neglecting themselves, don’t close the compassion loop. For instance, they do lots of ‘good deeds’ but also tend to throw themselves under a bus in the process. They care in the hopes that they can pay off the resentment and pain. Or, they’re waiting for the tipping point of caring where they finally feel decent about themselves. It gives them a purpose and a distraction. They might mistake pity for compassion, empathy, and love.
We can’t keep relying on others to tell us we’re ‘okay’. It’s exhausting and disempowering.
We also cannot expect to make good decisions, or feel good or be in good relationships when we’re repeating thinking and behaviour that lead to the opposite.
It’s time for us to stop reinforcing shame.
We must forgive ourselves. This means opening our minds up to recognising where we are treating our beliefs or the mutterings of others as factual or even “the law”, when they’re not. Parents and other people we have viewed as authorities are not infallible.
We have to do the adult thing and stop obeying shame and start obeying the call from within to take better care of us.
We cannot keep ourselves small just so that we can give the impression that another person is never wrong or beyond question. What’s the point in repeatedly shaming ourselves just so that we keep the legacy of their shame intact? Truth and compassion take down shame.
Learning to like, love, care about, trust and respect ourselves is a process and a journey of which only we can be the driver. We can begin at any time. It starts with a decision, and that decision is to choose and keep re-choosing to love instead of choosing to shame.
Your thoughts?
The Joy of Saying No: A Simple Plan to Stop People Pleasing, Reclaim Boundaries, and Say Yes to the Life You Want (Harper Horizon/HarperCollins) is out now and available in bookshops on and offline. Listen to the first chapter.
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I am gobsmacked Natalie, this hits every button, Thank you. I will write more later….
Apologies for the delay in writing, there has been a death in the family and I’m not really up to writing much at the minute. I hope you all understand. Will write later.
Thanks Nat. You are a Godsend.
Still single. Still satisfied about it. Lately I have been getting some of my pieces together and ready to exhibit in my favorite art museum.
You help women on so many levels.
Peanut Xx
Excellent! Another perfectly timed post…just read it twice in a row.
I think I carry a lot of shame (I love to blame myself for every thing that went wrong in many aspects of life) and I think I haven’t ever really liked myself. Like EVER. So I think a feelings journal is definitely in order.
It has been a long 6 weeks and I’m still NC. (Small victory)
This site has been a godsend!
Thank you. Thank you. THANK YOU!
I needed this today. No contact got me detached from a dysfunctional relationship, but forgiving myself for ignoring the red flags and my own intuition and letting my self-esteem sink so low have been tougher to rise above. The shame I feel for investing so much emotion, attention, and energy into an EU man for soooo long before I came out of the fog is something I’m still struggling with, and ruminating over. I know shame is toxic, I feel the acid in my stomach churn whenever I think about how I was played for a fool, fed into his lies, and all the codependent behaviors I brought to the mix. I’m trying to be kind and loving to me and focus on how far I’ve come, but redirecting that internal dialogue has been tough. Your blog sure helps though Nat, I turn to your posts and those of your readers everyday for enlightenment and encouragement.
Dear GettingItRight, I’m standing right there with you by your side. Im experiencing very similar feelings and anxieties. Like you, I am so grateful for Nat’s timely posts of tender wisdom. Courage and kind fhoughts to you from my heart. X
This month will be 7 months “No Contact” and I am eternally grateful. Feels Wonderful!
Natalie, thank you so much for all you do to let us know this is going on. I thought i did have good self-esteem. I thought I did love and respect myself.
Then I listened to 5 weeks of the most entrancing music I’d ever heard. classical music played on one of those big church organs. Then he smiled at me, a white light explosion occurred and after two months my self esteem was in the toilet as I tried to make sense of why I was allowing myself to be emotionally abused by this malignant narcissist and I couldn’t believe people like this existed.
I’ve just completed 91 days of NC and am almost myself again. I sure hope there was a reason for this um,. . . interlude in my life. It was so uncomfortable. Thanks for all you do. I have been reading as my antidote to make sense of all this.
Wow. Just. WOW! I have often wondered where my outsize load of existential shame and guilt came from. Good to get some outside confirmation that it is not *mine*. A helpful step to further my progress in rebuilding myself as part of the ongoing cleanup and disaster recovery effort from ending my legendarily fucked up marriage a couple months ago.
I found this site a few days ago, in the midst of agonizing pain and anxiety over a breakup that I fear is (in my minds words) “mostly my fault”. I needed to read this today. I DO think the breakup was my fault. I think I sabotaged the relationship, and was possibly even emotionally abusive, but it is because I have been letting shame and self-hatred build up for years. All I want to do is to reconnect with the ex, but I know this might be my only chance to finally face myself and start to learn why I feel so empty and self-punishing on the inside. Thank you so much for this site, Natalie. It has been amazing reading so many of your posts.
I do have one question, either for you, or for other readers who have been on this site longer than me. Are there any posts about anger? I can relate to so much of the self-esteem stuff on here, and was definitely with an Emotionally Unavailable Man, but I was also angry, punitive, controlling, verbally abusive, and did not respect his boundaries. I think most these posts are for victims of this behavior, but what if you are the perpetrator? I learned this from an abusive parent, and I do not want to perpetuate it… this is one of the reasons why the relationship ended. It’s also one of the reasons why I am on this site right now. If anyone could speak to this, I would find it super helpful, as I am feeling shame, but also see this as a chance to finally learn a new way to be.
I cant answer your question directly and im not qualified or experienced enough to do so. But i do want to say how much i respect your honesty and integrity. Please dont be hard on yourself though – i used to believe some really bad things about.myself and am still struggling with accepting that i nurtured being codependent. But with Natalie’s wise, kind, words of wisdom i am finding the inner peace to come to terms with the things i did that were not helpful in my entangled relationship. Big hug.
Danica- This one is along the lines of what you’re talking about. You are self aware and that puts you miles ahead of many other people. Good luck on your journey.
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/criticism-sometimes-were-so-busy-focusing-on-the-negative-feelings-that-we-forget-to-question-whether-its-true/
Here is another one that is good.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/columns-blogs/steven-kalas/we-are-all-walking-wounded
Danica, I identify with your story; With the ex-AC/Narc/EU/passive aggressive gas lighter (he was the works), I was aggressive and mean, he drove me mental, and I wasn’t strong enough to walk away. I have worked on this immensely. Not just with romantic relationships. Its something about reducing anxiety, reducing trying to control others, self-validation, not taking things too seriously and AVOIDING rather than trying to change toxic people. It is practicing the belief that everyone has their issues, you can’t own other people’s problems, its best to walk away or not engage etc. I am happy with how I treated the EUs after him, I was always decent and kind, no anger, and I never tried to change them, I walked away.
So I would say; you can overcome it, it is a dynamic between people, and who you pick to be with is an important part of whether all those things get triggered, and learning to deal with people generally, in life, will help you manage romantic relationships too. Think of all the stress we carry towards others, and try to change that. Challenge your angry thoughts about others, yourself, your friends, coworkers, wait staff, road rage, whatever. The aim is to not be reactive, to identify triggers, to identify your own emotions.
I think anger is also about rejection AND a sense of entitlement. From having received very mixed messages in childhood (‘I love you, can’t you see I love you, and I will not concede that I treat you bad because hey can’t you see I love you’), there is huge fear of rejection. Because rejection seems to hit at who we are; its not ‘he doesnt like me’, its ‘I’m unlovable, people leave me, I’m not Ok’. Parents set this up – when a parent treats you like this, you’re not able to think ‘this is because they’re anxious, narcissistic, having a bad day’ – you think ‘this is because I’m not lovable’.
I think anger is about entitlement esp. in the face of rejection; ‘you will love me dammit, and you will listen!’ (isn’t that what our parents did, and isn’t that what we are doing with partners?). Its demanding validation, and demanding change. Its being unable to say ‘well, if he behaves like this, its not healthy, and it doesnt mean that I am not okay, and also I can’t make him change’. Instead, we need to practice actually accepting yourself and others for who they are and acting accordingly. If someone or a relationship is toxic, you dont try to change them – you walk away. If someone or a relationship is kind, you dont take advantage or sabotage – you invest in them. It can take some time to learn how to identify people because we received such mixed messages growing up that made us doubt our ability to differentiate healthy and non-healthy relationships.
With the recent ex-EU, he liked rejecting me; we never really dated, and he still managed to fake date and ‘dump’ me multiple times. Each time I thought oh well he doesnt like me (I didn’t take it as not being lovable). interestingly, HE kept coming back to reject me again and again and again. So i wonder if people like us attract those that LIKE TO REJECT, like to abandon, like to be inconsistent because of their own fears and anxieties. Of course I was hurt more and more every time i was rejected; but I never lost my temper really and I could eventually see what this was about and could walk away. We can overcome our need to engage with those that reject us like our parents.
So I dont think you deal with anger; you deal with the feelings and stories about yourself and other people that underlie that anger. And then you practice patience and kindness to yourself and others. practice, practice, practice.
Suki, so true…… one of the things I repeat often now, internally, is “you can’t change other people”, and it does allow me to divert some angst. I no longer entertain doing the coulda woulda shouda shuffle.
And Danica, that article I mentioned about marrying ourselves said to try speaking this aloud:
I am no longer looking for the perfect partner.
I am my own perfect partner.
I Me Wed
Suki, so true and so wise.
Other people being inconsistent is about them and them only. But in my case for example, it was not so much “they are inconsistent because I am unlovable” but the inconsistency itself was/is such a huge trigger for me. Due to my own history with my family, inconsistency is what I associate with love. The inconsistency is what hooks me up. In a perverted sense, inconsistency makes me feel loved. This is my biggest struggle right now. My new therapist has opened my eyes to this and this is when I felt real shame. That I equate inconsistency (you describe it perfectly in your comment) with love and care. That I don’t know (not on the intellectual or shallow level of cliches but on a real KNOW level) what love feels like, what being LOVED feels like if there is no inconsistency and mixed signals. It was also a big relief to realize this as well (is this weird?).
So for me personally, shame was a catalyst to make changes, shame meant there was room to become loved in a healthy way.
Wow.
Do you ever get the feeling that the universe is conspiring to help you? Throwing things in your path that keep shouting at you to change your point of view?
I’ve been dealing with both my parents lately, for various life reasons, they live separately, and I am seeing their obstinate controlling ways in parallel. It’s almost comical. Their unaccepting critical natures that found a home with each other for a time. Mom always swore it was Dad who kept her life so small, but I see them both sitting in the same place on their respective couches, being crochety about anything that might require them to move off of those couches. Both of them are never wrong, about anything.
But now I see them through BR goggles and realize their critical ways are directed at whatever target is in the vicinity, and I don’t have to live their version of me.
I’ve learned that I don’t have to try to cheer Mom up. That has been a major reflex action, for most of my life.
I let go of looking for effusive approval from those who have never given it.
I could go on and on about the parents issue, but I’ll tell those things to Cody, which is the name I have given to my black and white composition book that is my “codependent” journal, where I write my thoughts. I have always journaled, but the old journal was all about man drama, unrequited love, unreciprocated love care trust and respect. Cody is about dismantling old triggers/behaviors/beliefs and embracing self-love.
Just yesterday I read an article about “marrying yourself”, basically saying to make a commitment to love and honor yourself – and asking if you are strong enough to really do that. It went on to say that one of the main obstacles to loving and honoring yourself is self-hatredFrom the article: your disgust for your foibles and wobbles … the harsh slurs you inflict on your unripe beauty … your sneaky tendency to sabotage your exuberance … the bad excuses you concoct for not treating yourself with crafty kindness all the time….
Self love is the key to so many truly valuable experiences in life.
The partner in my last relationship said and did subtle things in an effort to shame me for just being me. He was not as financially stable as I but that didn’t bother me. However, it made him feel deeply insecure. I cared about him not fancy things and never threw my financial situation in his face. The interesting thing is that my very presence triggered his insecurity so he could never really relax around me. He later blamed me for his being uncomfortable but I’ll get to more of that in a moment.
At one point he flat out told me that he didn’t think he was enough for me. He would say silly, sarcastic things like “you sure like your house” when I would sit on my couch to relax. He also once said “I think you need more nuturing that I can give.” After that I thought “I haven’t asked you for anything so how can that be possible?” In the end, when he broke up with me, he admitted that he wasn’t ready for a relationship etc but he also said things about me that were not true using them as part of the reason he broke up with me. It was if he was trying to justify his actions by making his words and actions my fault! Although the relationship did not last long, strangely I was left utterly devastated. I think I stayed because in some way I wanted his approval and love and because deep down perhaps I questioned my self worth. I don’t don’t understand why he even bothered if my presence caused him anxiety. Anyway…
It’s been almost 8 months since then and I’m doing a lot better but still hurt. The pain taught me some very valuable lessons. The most important one is to love and believe in myself fully and never sell myself short again.
“He was not as financially stable as I but that didn’t bother me. However, it made him feel deeply insecure. I cared about him, not fancy things and never threw my financial situation in his face. “
Oh, Abby. Stop right there. This is the “don’t hate me because I’ve accomplished things” dance. I know it so well. We can’t understand why someone keeps rejecting us when we are so willing to share and enjoy the fruits of our labor. We start bending over backwards to NOT appear like we think we are “better” in any way. And with every success we have, however small, that person sends more negativity our way.
We can never win with that person. We will never win. Because the person they are most discontent with is themselves…and being with you makes them feel less than, but to feel that way is intolerable so they deflect it onto you and now you are made out to be less than. It’s a form of jealousy, but I was reading the other day that when one feels jealous, that jealousy is pointing out the things in ourselves that we are dissatisfied with. Your ex was dissatisfied with his “station”, it seems. But he made it about YOU and your quest for material comforts. YOU are the problem, not him.
That was NEVER the truth. You would not be feeling rejected if you would grasp on to the fact that his dissatisfaction was all about him. You were more than he could handle. And you need to stop trying to win with that person or people like that because they will try their best to ruin you – spiritually, emotionally, or financially.
Abby
Read Elgies words very very carefully and multiple times. Some folks cannot handle being with someone more successful or accomplished than they are. Often you do see this with men, who have been conditioned to be providers. You remind them that they could’ve been more in life and they retaliate by cutting you down. Sadly, a good many of those other dating blogs out there tell us chix to “date down” and not be so picky. What you experienced is often the result. Doing so only works when the person is OK with their life and many aren’t. It wasn’t you.
Noquay, I partially disagree with your interpretation. “More successful and accomplished” is a self-judgement by those who are tearing us down. Somewhere in their psyche they have judged themselves as less than….or in some cases perhaps they’ve judged themselves as being “more than”. Regardless, a judgement was made and we came out as being not up to specs, so they launch their verbal or emotional assaults. It is our job to take care of ourselves and get out of Dodge. So far as society encouraging women to “date down”… is that using income as a measuring stick? That is hardly a way to measure someone’s worth. Every billionaire who married “the nanny” has “dated down”, if that is the case. But if billionaires aren’t judged as “dating down” because the women they choose are stunningly attractive, then is any man who dates a plain jane “dating down?
Self-awareness is required on both sides of a relationship.
Elgie
In these blogs, “dating down” is described as dating someone (yep, this always the woman choosing to dare a man) with much less income and education. It does seem earning potential is their main criteria along with level of ambition. No, certainly not a way to measure someones worth as a human being, more a measure of compatibility. This is why most sucessful relationships are between socioeconomic peers. You tend to have the same lifestyles, thinking styles, core values, interests. Not so much a case of more than or less than: rather a case of extreme difference. Yep, men will date and marry a less ambitious woman if she’s hot; women will date a hot, less ambitious guy, but it usually doesn’t last (been there, done that). The issue is when some folks aren’t OK with their life and where they are in it, you are a reminder of that, so
they resent you and at some level, want to change you into someone more like them. Nat calls them “choppers”, they’re projecting in a way. What Abby describes is something I’ve experienced every time I tried to date someone unhappy with who they are, the life’s decisions they made. At the time some of these folk were more sucessful by conventional measures but still felt they didnt measure up in terms of their health, intellectual pursuits, relationship history. They want to douse your light so they can shine in comparison; borderline emotional abuse. You will never win in this situation. Yep, self awareness is important on both sides, including a full understanding of what you want and what does and does not work for you.
Abby, your post reminds me of something really profound my therapist once told me. She said that the most important quality in a potential partner is self-awareness and how willing the person is to struggle with their own issues in order to achieve greater consciousness about their behaviors and motivations. If your guy had been self-aware, he would have said to himself, “hmmm, I’m being triggered right now… I’m uncomfortable because I don’t feel I measure up to Abby. Ok, where’s that coming from? I can see that I’m starting to find fault with her. Gotta stop that! This is my problem, not hers.”
Of course this takes a great deal of maturity to do this as well as the willingness to look at painful things in one’s life. My therapist says that about 80% of her clients refuse to go that far. They come to therapy just for relief but the real cure requires more suffering than they are willing to do. This is such an important concept for me that I will not date someone who hasn’t been in therapy (and taken it seriously) or otherwise gone through a growing process of self-awareness.
Great point, Wiser. I’m starting to think that I would benefit from applying that standard to friendships as well.
The thing is though, most people, female or male, do not come to BR, don’t analyze their behavior, they keep on doing what has been “working.”
It’s hard to apply our values because most people DO NOT want to work on themselves.
Hence, I am thinking, albeit, we BR people, after years of being here, are healthy but single. Because we are “picky.” Meaning – self aware.
I know that makes it harder to find these people initially, but they are out there. Lots of people are emotionally healthy and set and maintain healthy boundaries. They may have been blessed with parents that raised them to be that way, or maybe they worked hard to reparent themselves like many of us. I think the key is recognizing them.
Wiser,
I don’t remember who said that. Just very recently. That she is single still because she is self-aware. And will perhaps stay that way because she is “picky.” I thought this week. That I might forever stay single. I am too picky?
I am starting to think that’s the thing. How easy it would be for me now to go and find a relationship. Probably oh very easy if I am disengaged from myself.
It is nearly impossible now when I know what I want, my values, my needs, and the kind of person I want.
This week I have met a lot of couples, people I used to know who are couples now, remarried. Makes me think.. Is something wrong with me? 9 years officially single. Still single. Attractive and fit and with a job and things put together, why? Is something wrong with me? Sometimes I despair so much. One of those days.
But I move on because I know I have a goal in my life. From a spiritual perspective.
All is well. God Bless everyone.
Hi Sofia,
I just had to comment on your comments to Wiser. Your words… The wondering… The feeling of getting it together the best you can and then reflecting…
I often have the similar thoughts… I’m in decent shape, employed, own my home, have friends and activities, for
the most part, the majority of my life is in order. Except for one thing. I commented at the end of the previous post about feeling too self-aware.
A friend suggested “at thus age” (48) I should give up
on the concept of attraction. My response was “really, could you go to bed every night and let someone touch you that you had no physical attraction to?”. So is that being too picky? Is wanting someone to be intelligent, active, stable, and caring too picky? My divorce began 7 years ago, and here I am. But I survived the ending of a 20 yr marriage. That’s not what brought me here. It was last year and BGE (Best Guy Ever). I did not know that there was such a thing as a magical “opt out” button that BGE could press without warning, that means everything between us is n
(oops guess that’s what prematuely hitting the button does)
Continued
… Now null and void, even though I just mentioned things we will be doing this summer. And since you’ve traveled here, I’ll make sure to keep you confused so we can still have sex, even though I’m breaking your heart, and I’ll downplay and deny everything I’ve ever said, done, and promised over all these months. You have never seen this side of me. And once you leave, you will never, ever see me again.
And that WAS me being “picky”. And now I haven’t slept a night through in 10 1/2 months.
And yes, I’ve thought, are people who are less self-aware, or just naive, or maybe even ignorant, are these people happier? What am I doing wrong? Is it ME?
Say Something,
I could write what you said. About your experience with the BGE. He was the Best Guy Ever too for me after 7 years of being divorced I thought I had found finally someone good. There were red flags of course but I chose to ignore. Pleasing, accommodating, etc etc. Then later, insecure, pathetic, no self-esteem, the diet of crumbs. And the breakup, from which I am still recovering. It has been 13 months now. The good thing there are days and weeks when I feel indifferent to him. Then something hits and I feel it all over again. There are still cycles. My sleep too had been interrupted for months and I still wake up a lot. My memory has been affected and I am more prone to depression now than before. It was the most traumatic experience in my life not just the breakup but something else that happened. It will take more time to recover. I have found my source for healing. Faith. I don’t feel either scared or alone anymore and my soul is being healed.
Like this post describes, while healing, we have to continue trying liking and loving ourselves and not shaming ourselves for the things we did or didn’t do. I know I still continue shaming myself for some of my behavior during that relationship. Still thinking (during my dark days) that I screwed it all up. But of course it’s not true. It takes two people. I recognize now that shaming and making feel ourselves guilty is the way to control the past and prevent ourselves from going and moving forward. It is an unhealthy behavior. The great thing is to acknowledge this issue and keep on reinforcing love for yourself and connect with you and keep reconnecting. Forgiving ourselves and being in peace with who we are. You will heal eventually. Don’t shame yourself for still not being over him. Take as long as it’s needed. As long as you know you are improving and moving forward even if with the baby steps.
Oh Sofia,
Your response made me cry. I keep asking myself how much longer until I stop thinking about him because it’s still (10 1/2 months later and 6 1/2 months NC) 1000x a day at least.
Here’s how I describe the sensation: you know when you have to pee, but you need to distract yourself… The next exit, the next commercial, 1 more hour of sleep… But you still have to pee, no matter WHAT distraction method you use. And there’s discomfort. And then, in a few hours, you’ll have to pee again. It’s like BGE is just leaning on my bladder.
I was pleasing and accommodating too, thinking that was a GOOD thing. And he was always kind and “nice”. I hate that word now, NICE. Because he had stress at work and corporate changes happening. So I didn’t want to add to the stress. He told me he’s never been able to relax before like he could with me, that I was so easy to spend time with, that he was so lucky, that he had the best girlfriend ever, that I was beautiful. Those sounded like good things. Real things. I never told him when my birthday was until the next day. Why didn’t he ever ask? Was that a red flag?
And then on TLW (the last weekend May 2014) I THOUGHT we were having a great time together. We were grilling. I was soooo happy. I felt so fortunate. There was nobody I’d rather be with and nowhere I’d rather be. And all of a sudden Sunday (prompted by me asking the question “when am I going to see you?) I suddenly “lived too far away”. There are blurry moments, but I STAYED because something must be WRONG. BGE doesn’t treat me like this. And he tried being BGE and we had sex twice after that. Confusing. Things are ok? Nope. I left on Tuesday morning, sobbing, distraught. AMBUSHED.
I was asking question after question just wanting him to SAY SOMETHING. Sometimes he just stared at me.j A week later I called and BEGGED. For the second time EVER in my life. I BEGGED. Please don’t give up on us. I don’t understand. And still I don’t.
Sofia, how can someone literally discard another person and claim to care? That’s not caring. So I poured it all out. Everything. Told him “you know I’d do anything for you” and he replied “I know”. I begged him to tell me what I’d done wrong because I had NO IDEA. A week later he mentioned ONE minor incident from months earlier that he’d never said anything about that was almost nonsensical. I explained it. I offered everything and anything.
I know I treated him beyond well. But I didn’t ask for clarity and definitions because the relationship FELT so right, so comfortable, SO natural and real. For me. How could I not know after almost 6 months that I meant nothing to him. So nothing that I never saw him ever again. WHO DOES THAT?
I lost 11 lbs without effort. People commented how great I looked, while inside I was DYING and thinking that dying might not be so bad, as I was awaiting 2nd round biopsy results. (benign, but still a growth/tumor in there). Maybe cancer was supposed to take me out of my misery. Maybe I DESERVED it, for not going to regular medical exams. My destiny.
And like you said Sofia, the most traumatic experience of my life. Worse than a cancer scare. Worse than the end of a 20 year marriage. Worse than my father’s death. Friends could not relate.
I thank NML for providing this site, and for people like you who share and understand. I have never read so much, slept so little, cried so much, or searched so hard for elusive answers:
1. What happened?
2. What is wrong with me?
3. When will I ever feel better?
I don’t know how yet to accept and be ok. Thank you for “listening”. I am so sorry you had BGE trauma. Love is not pain.
Say something – is it love when you have lost absolutely all your dignity???? Really???
From your description, it was you that was the Best Girl Ever – ie too good – for this person. In reality you have him on such a high pedestal – you can’t see the wood for the trees.
Take him off the pedestal – stop calling him that – he wasn’t.
Any man worth his salt would not leave you in such a mess with such a surprise out of know where – there would be many discussions attempting to connect and communicate with you directly – you say there were no run up clues, amber/ red flags??? of his??? at all???
If there were non – either you were in a complete fantasy and totally unaware or you were conned completely by this highly skilled imposter of a best man ever?
Conveniently for you – you can blame/shame yourself either way. I suggest re reading Natalies post above. This man was not for you – you deserve better treatment and to feel love – real love.
Hi Oona,
You are right that he cannot be the BGE. The guy I THOUGHT I knew until The End was the BGE. All of a sudden, he appeared to become a different person. You know Natalie’s post about “people unfold”? Well, this was like PEOPLE EXPLODE. I had NEVER seen this cold, dismissive, detached, uncaring man.
Were there flags? Maybe a few but they were not glaring. He’d been married twice for 2 years each. Pregnant high school gf and then a rebound is the story. (we are both in our 40’s) He was mistreated in past relationships- didn’t know victimhood was a flag, thought he was being open. He might bring up his ex for 5 min in a weekend. I thought, again, he was being truthful and open. He seemed to like me alot right away. I thought he DID. There was future faking, but much was supposed to happen in the summer. He bailed in May. He constantly said he had a terrible memory. His mother said so too. Believable. My kids liked him. My family liked him. My friends liked him, and he received the green light from my most cynical friend. She now says that he fooled her too. He was “nice”. And yes, charming. Not until AFTER and reading like my life depended on it did I see “patterns” for EU men. Natalie’s Mr. Unavailable and the book Men Who Can’t Love provided the most insight. But I haven’t yet come to acceptance. I still have cognitive dissonance with BGE/EU passive aggressive guy with narcissistic traits. And on top of that I still question What If It’s Me? What if he just can’t commit to ME? And I know, logically, that no matter what, he is WRONG because he opted out. During THE END he said these things to me, which I couldn’t believe were coming out of his mouth:
Sometimes you need to think logically, and not emotionally.
I gave you all my free time.
I feel like I’m living a lifestyle that isn’t mine.
The stakes are really high.
This entire relationship has been a vacation.
A week later he let me know that he badly wanted to have had me over for the weekend, but thought that would have been irresponsible. (because he’s such a NICE guy and was now practicing harm reduction?) 2-3 weeks later he was dating someone else.
When I broke no contact months later and mailed a letter, he responded via email. In the email he wrote “my life with you was great. But that’s not the REAL me. Perhaps you weren’t around me long enough…”
There’s so much more, but bottom line is that I truly believed I’d met the BGE. And clearly he is not (for me). But I still miss that person because it’s so hard to believe he could have been the BIE Best Imposter Ever. Truly a Jekyll-Hyde revelation in the end. There was no middle, no unfolding, not one word of unhappiness, negativity, uncertainty ever spoken. Thank you for pointing out that a worthy man would have discussed things with me. So I THOUGHT too, but it never happened so I believed I didn’t deserve even THAT because people CAN and DO choose to do whatever they want.
But inaction blamed on forgetting aka future faking. I didn’t know about future faking. I didn’t know about impression management, or fast forwarding. Mind f-ery like i was brainwashed. And now that i know EU lingo, I struggle with accepting and blaming myself for believing in him. All (90% of) the anger I WANTED to have toward him has been directed at myself. Yes, STUCK here.
Very similar things were said to me. The truth is that they put a mask on while trying us out. Test drive. They act polite and nice. They might not show their trueselves to protect themselves and not get deep with us (while we drown in fantasies).Then, at some point, 6+ months or so, they realize we are not the Ones for them and they bail. Some people I guess just need more time to figure it out. Perhaps they don’t even lead us on, they are just not sure and take a long time to figure out if they can commit to us.
The hard and painful truth is that they didn’t choose us. No matter how great we are. And we are. But they are looking for someone else. We are not their match. They are not our match therefore either. All the fantasies crash because we were not meant for each other. And that was the hardest to accept for me. I have by now. It’s still hard. Confusing and painful, but once you accept that fact you will start letting go. Doesn’t mean all the pain will go away. No. But at least you will get on the path of being unstuck because you firmly told yourself: “We are not meant for each other.” And that’s the truth. If we were, we would be with them now. Blaming, shaming, them or yourself, won’t help. Will keep you stuck and make things worse. It’s taking the hard reality of that a person has freedom to choose. And we are not their choice. And I can understand that even though it is “unfair” and painful to us. Ultimately, loving (not being painfully addicted) someone would also mean wishing them the best. Peace and health and security and love. That’s the hardest too when we are holding on to them and clinging to them.
Other people, although affect our lives, they don’t rule it. You can become UNSTUCK and you will! With work and determination. I got on the unstuck path many times, forcibly, last year just because I was fed up thinking of it all. And gradually this getting on the path, sliding off it, getting back, etc., gradually and naturally you will stay on the healthy path to yourself.
Sofia, this writing has a “I was not good enough” tone. I imagine you are on the downward slope of the healing line today. Healing is like a jagged lined which is always headed upwards, but there are down days. You have to understand that these men are not looking for THE ONE. They are actually looking for THE MANY. So, you did not lose out because you did not check off essential things on their checklist. The only thing on their checklist is – “ is she available when I need some kind of stroking – ego or johnson”.
These men aren’t picky and tossing us back because they find us lacking. They back away to keep us from expecting anything of them.
I believe when men are ready to settle down, they do so quickly. They have made up their minds that it is “time” to settle down, there is no hemming and hawing, and they choose quickly, based on what is most important to him – be it temperament or kitchen skills or looks or income. But any relationship prior to that “time to settle down” moment is purely recreational for the man. And with recreational relationships, they run away when there is any hint that the woman is seeking permanency.
Say Something,
I had those questions too the first 10 months for sure. How can one discard someone so easily and never even care to see you again even as a friend, the idea which he offered himself to never follow up on it. It’s truly amazing to me too. I went in circles asking myself the same question over and over. Didn’t I mean anything to him at all? Didn’t he care for me? How is that possible? Was he faking and leading me on all the time? I know what you are going through. I feel I am almost done ruminating with those kinds of questions. My pain is more deeply rooted because he would have been a father of my child. He pressured to terminate and promised we would be together and have a child later when he is ready. If I had kept the child I would have never seen him again, I was told. I made the gravest mistake of my life, which I won’t even go into explaining on here. I deeply regret and grieve the loss. So my situation is traumatic because it’s connected to all of this, which happened couple months before he broke up with me. Which of course is not surprising considering what happened.
I am healing and recovering with God’s help, but I will always repent this horrendous act that I committed. If I were in this situation now, I would kick the guy to the curb and keep the pregnancy, no matter fears of being a single mom already.
This subject is shameful to discuss and painful as well, but I wanted to let you know, if it makes you feel any better. I went through quite a turmoil last year and even if I get over him (get over the pain and the loss of hopes and illusions), I will always carry the loss in my heart, but with Faith and prayers, I know I can go through it and will not beat up myself and hate myself. I am learning to forgive and love myself even with all the mistakes and misdeeds I committed.
Do you have a job you like? A close network of friends? Do you feel lonely? I think if we are unsatisfied with a major factor in our life: career, friendships, other relationships, we tend to fall back in the trap of thinking of the past and torturing ourselves because it occupies us and adds something to our void I guess. I am stuck in the midst of career change (rather thinking about it). Lack of satisfaction in my professional life makes me think of all the past in cycles again. It’s important to find the meaning(s) in your life in different areas. Personal (hobby, interests), professional (job, study), relationships (friends, family). Spiritual, if you are a believer. We need to straighten out all the areas in our life. To focus on these. To stay busy. Yes, we will continue thinking of them, but slowly we will be moving on because we are building our lives even though we seem to be stuck on them. We are not. We are moving on. Slowly yes, but we are.
P.S. I read your dating stories in the previous post. It is hilarious. Here you go, you could write a blog about dating experiences. You have a great sense of humor.
I wanted to add that some of it (1000x a day thinking of him for 10 1/2 months) is a formed habit. I had it too. I tried the rubber band on my wrist, tried thinking of something else, revert my attention, distract. What finally made me think less frequently of him and sporadically is just a natural progress. I guess my brain got burned out thinking of him. You just eventually get fed up (subconsciously) playing the images in your head. You will!!! Trust me! I think at about 10-12 months mark I noticed my obsessive thinking of him stopped. It came by itself where there were long gaps. He would still pop up daily in my head, but I contribute it to a formed habit not because I was thinking of him. So be aware that some of it is like a ritual, autopilot processing. It will go away because it will wear off soon. You are closer than you think. You will just get sick of it!!! I promise.
Hi Sofia,
I DO remember your story from the previous post. I cannot imagine having to make that decision, and I know you felt like you were making it jointly, and you trusted that he was supporting you. And then he betrayed you. I have been reading about “intimate betrayal” and its traumatic effect, which mimic addiction. Or maybe better worded, it can create a powerful and traumatic addiction/ withdrawal bond.
I was also offered the (fake) friendship card. When I could “get out of this frame of mind” I was encouraged to contact him because he still cared and “I’m a big fan of say something”- WTF??? Reset button. So a day later, via email, I responded:
Maybe now you’re like crack to me. It would be like saying goodbye all over again. Probably worse, because I was still in shock then. And I would cry, and plead with you, and hope that if you saw me again, maybe you’d change your mind about me. And I wouldn’t want to let go of you. And I would beg, and cling, and ask for anything. And everything. And then some. And you would be polite, but dismissive. And I would still be crying when, for the 26th time, you’d say you’re sorry. (but he never meant it, just the word “sorry” with no explanation or action to support it) And it would break me, if there is anything left to break. And I’ve never been broken like this before. And I would want more from you, want you to come back to me, be with me, tell me you made a mistake. And you would be polite and friendly, and say something you think would make me feel better. And I wouldn’t feel better, because I would want it to be different. I would want you to say that you needed to see me because you missed me like I miss you. I would want you to take me back, to stay with me, to tell me that this time would be different. And better. And you would tell me that you just don’t feel the same. And I would be a mess beyond repair. And I know you don’t want to see that.
^that^ was the Pre-amble to what I would send 2 weeks later. I never heard from him again. EVER.
He always had “nice guy” words. Impression management. Even in the end, he texted me a list of the qualities he sees in me, that he admires: “you make me laugh and you make me smile. You’re sexy-smart and just plain sexy…” BUT??? BUT what???? If I make you smile and laugh, are you unhappy with me? Please SAY SOMETHING because NORMAL PEOPLE DON’T JUST DISCARD ANOTHER PERSON LIKE THIS and claim to care but offer no explanation except that I (ALL of a sudden) live too far away. (2 hrs) I offered to visit midweek, not just fri pm – mon am. I offered to MOVE there. And meant it. I asked if there was someone else. No. Did he want to get back with his ex? No. He just shut down. And I know I need to “accept” that he is just not the BGE. I KNOW I need to.
And Sofia, I do have “good” things in my life: kids, career, friends, activities, dogs. I felt strong and confident when I met him. In the aftermath, my ability to appreciate and enjoy these things was depleted. Therapy, reading, excessive exercising like you mentioned… I remember referring to “triathlon Sunday” last summer which consisted of me playing a soccer game, followed by tennis, and then biking almost back-to-back because I HAD to be moving. I didn’t want to be in my house.
It has been suggested that my life would make a good reality show or at least I should blog about it. (that’s all Pre-not-BGE). I think for now sharing on BR is what I need. And then yes, maybe I’ll get sick of everything about him. Thank you so much for your encouragement, Sofia. I want to hear about your progress 🙂
Say Something,
I agree with Oona that for whatever reason, we got attached to these people being in a complete fantasy/infatuation and putting them on a high pedestal. Also, very possible, these “nice” guys were the imposters. The ex was very “nice” too. His last words were about how great a woman I am, intelligent, beautiful, funny, sexy and hot and I can have anyone I want. But. He doesn’t have the feelings for me anymore. They are gone. And he can’t commit. And there is nobody else. I spent a year trying to dissect and figure it all out. I have gradually come to the conclusion that I will never know the answer why. At this point I almost don’t care. What remains is a pain of the trauma. I might refer to the specialist if my burgeoning and just now developing spiritual life is not yet enough for now to go through this. If Faith alone for now is not enough to heal. I will heed my symptoms and take care of me I feel I am stuck on the past. Not him. But rather what happened. And very importantly, like I said before in my recent posts, my attitude about me is 180 different than it was all in my previous life. I turned completely around and it took this kind of hit to change me and my life for the better. You will eventually burn out, Say Something. This intensity can’t last forever. I would suggest, if you can afford, finding a good therapist. Cognitive therapy perhaps. I am feeling you have something very painful stuck from maybe some time ago but the “source” of it has become he and the relationship. Not letting go of some control and pain. An objective, professional person might help you redirect your thinking path. After all: it’s all in our head. I feel you are very much in pain and still raw. Like it just happened. Mine is more dull and kind of always there, sometimes muted, sometimes “gone,” sometimes anew.I am aware though of my feelings and will seek help if I feel I am progressively stuck. Think about it as you being unwell and needing help. Seek help. Spiritual or counseling or both. You are a very kind and caring person. You deserve to love and respect yourself. That person is dead, figuratively speaking. It was a temporary thing for him, while for you it was an investment. Overinvestment. Fantasies, pedestal. Addiction and pain. Start taking care of you. The people in your life need you. Your kids, family. And you have years ahead to live and enjoy all the goodness in this life. Make a commitment to start a recovery today! With some positive, affirmation act that will make you feel special and lovable. Take care of yourself and all will fall in place. You WILL BE indifferent to him! But you need to take care of YOU first.
Its interesting reading you both because I can honestly say I have felt every thought you are now currently describing from your present and near past and could not see the wood for the trees myself ……. but there is one thing I notice in both of your writings which may or may not be of help?
– you both seem to focus on ‘them’ for your bench mark feeling of this is perfection at the time, which I understand you really assume is equal to finding actual real love… THEY were perfect, THEY were nice, THEY were this or that…????? which means this is therefore love and it is real….you are NOT describing your own feelings/situation – you describe your observations of what you perceive to be the mirror to yourself – they are great and therefore I am – unfortunately this approach actually leaves you open to smoke and mirrors not a true mirror reflection of where you are hense the Narcissists appearing in our lives.
? When I have been lucky enough to be in the presence of love – I noticed, strangely to me, I was able to automatically focus on how it felt being with them from MY feelings inside they made me feel x and Y like I barely notice the mechanics of it…and how it made myself act as I felt – I felt connected fully with myself and able to BE myself in reality… I was this, I was that and these feelings were perfectly wonderful and felt natural not in a fizzy drink kind of orgasmic high but in a warm and safe kind of way – more like a nice cup of tea or hot chocolate ( for the tea drinkers among us).
Could you be stuck still because even though the relationship is non existent, you are choosing to maintain it by continuing your infatuation with THEM afterwards, due to choosing to disbelieve that they could be imperfect in any way/and that you are imperfect and if you just crack it you could have them back anytime?
rather than drawing a line and creating an infatuation with yourself? – which is where you will truly find love and learn to accept yourselves for who you truly are – imperfections and all…. ?
Ie….so this really crap thing happened to me but hey I am great and I got myself heroically through it despite feeling really dreadful and him playing the nice man with me in order to dump his guilt and shame – aren’t I lucky to be away from this shameful excuse of a worm? I did well to stay away from him, I did well to find BR etc……
This may be confusing but I am beginning to believe there is no such thing as the perfect partner? – and if they are RUN because it is in theirs and your imperfections combined that unconditional love can truly be found and KNOWN by the both of you.
I remember an old family friend telling me about how she met her beau on the internet and then he finally asked her out on a date for which he arrived forty minutes late – she ripped shreds off him, absolutely tore him to bits in public – only he is a policeman and had been caught up rescuing someone. They in that moment both did things that upset the other one but also were able to express their dismay and still get through it together communicating fully with themselves and each other. Imperfectly perfect and it was with this and many other disappointing events that they finally got married and had children.
If she had not had such an infatuation with respect she felt she deserved for herself I doubt she would have ripped his head off – which by the way he found extremely attractive because she was asserting her own self worth.
Wiser, I really like your comment about self-aware men. I am gonna take your therapist’s advice to heart too.
I know at least one such man. We are very good friends and sometimes he can hurt me or trigger me and I know that I am safe to tell him that. And we’ll talk about what has happened. And I am not always right. Sometimes it’s a shadow of some past hurt caused by someone else entirely, just an echo. And I get scared and relieve the hurt. But he’ll go there with me, he’ll be interested in how this works with me so he can be more conscious of this in his communication with me and with others. I imagine he is more of an exception. And yes, one of his parents is a psychotherapist 🙂
Though I know at least two other men who are in therapy and who are sometimes described in self-help books as people to stay away from. They are mostly narcs who gain even more insight during therapy, who never get better, and only gain more ways to trick and use other people that they learn from therapy. Although, on paper (or on a first date) they are those self-aware men who’ve been working on themselves for years. These are very dangerous.
Thank you Sofia,
I appreciate that you are able to relate to what I’m saying. Too bad about our reasons for being here. And I AM (since last summer) in therapy with a well respected CBT. First time in my life. I feel like it’s my dirty secret, only a handful of people know I go because feeling traumatized months after a breakup is not acceptable in our society. Traumatized, disappointed, sad, hurt, deceived, betrayed. And then I feel guilty that I could STILL have these feelings, which, as it’s been pointed out in therapy, causes suffering. So though I swirl around trying to find acceptance, end the suffering, I haven’t let go of the fantasy quest for answers I will never get. Nonsensical.
He would not admit to not having/ losing feelings. I asked. His last (THE END) TEXT to me said “I can’t commit in the way I think you’d want me to” and “for your sake I wish I could tell you where I’ll be down the road” that “we need to move on for now”… So trying to “soften” things because he’s the “nice guy”. The “nice guy” that TEXTS that to me when I tell him I have a serious medical concern. I did also say I didn’t want him back out of guilt, but if there was ANY possibility, then NOW was the time to step up. And he then announced he had someone new, when just TWO weeks earlier we spoke on the phone and he assured me “I haven’t given up” and “we need to talk in person”. I realize that writing this still puts the focus on him.
Being told, like you were, of all my wonderful qualities at the end was brutal. Let’s not forget “I still think you’re the bomb” (yes, he actually said that). In a TEXT of course.
Sofia, your story and recovery give me hope. You (and others) are right in that if we were meant to be, we’d BE TOGETHER. Duh, right? When I frantically phoned a friend from his house on Monday (he’d gone to work and agreed that I could stay another day… I thought we’d work things out…) she advised me to collect my things and leave immediately. When he returned, I told her what my friend suggested. He said that would’ve been harsh. (BUT WHAT ABOUT WHAT YOU’RE DOING TO ME?)
Sigh. Yes, I (obviously) cared WAY more than he ever did. I REALLY thought he liked me. And he still has a bunch of my things. I never tried to get them back, never will, and he never mentioned returning anything.
There’s part of me that just wants to be believed. I did not jump in blindly, but after 3-4 months, I started to fall for him. I didn’t get there alone. He encouraged it, and I believed. Three weeks earlier, at my house, he continued talking about our upcoming vacation that was HIS idea. (he then evoked gaslighting techniques when I brought it up) Two weeks earlier when we were last together, he was holding my hand as we drove to the store, kissing me up and down my arm as I was falling asleep in his bed. JUST HOURS before he broke my heart, he discussed summer plans with me and invited my daughter and her bf (they were visiting for the first time) to join us for summer bonfires. I guess that’s how he treats someone that he never wants to see again.
As far as internalizing, I think like this- If he really believed all the “nice” things he said about me, how could he cut me off without any honest discussion (although I was still good enough to have sex with – and he initiated it- which mistakenly made me think he DID like me and was just scared or freaking out or something) and NEVER SEE ME AGAIN?
Wait, let me answer my own question: he did it because he CAN and now it’s up to me to accept that and “focus on me”…
How I wish I never fell for him and grew so bonded and attached. Please tell me it’s “normal” to develop a bond with someone you care deeply about.
I am now officially exhausted. I am not delusional, just sad. STILL.
Say Something,
And this is your answer, “because he CAN and now it’s up to me to accept that and ‘focus on me.’ ”
How easy and hard, right? It is normal to develop a bond. It takes time to unattach. You will get there. This won’t last a life time. It may take a year or 3 more, but you will get where he will be just a fading memory with maybe some fleeting, dull and sweet in a way pain and memory attached. I already get that feeling sometimes. I feel now he is the past. It’s a sign of moving on. Don’t rush yourself and don’t shame yourself for not being where you “should be” by now at the 10,5 month mark. Everyone is different.
The reality is, say something, that actually you did not fall for him, you did NOT fall for him – it is the other way around to your thinking. When someone told me that I though what are you mad are you insane? Truth is love never hurts like you are hurting now – this is not love you feel for this person.
If you had really fallen for him you would have put your feelings first and connected and expressed them enough to get the information you needed to either walk away with no guilt or shame or safely enter more into the relationship….this didn’t happen and now you are showing love to yourself by allowing yourself to connect with your true self.
Very wise Wiser. I remember the only useful mandatory work meeting I attended: the speaker discussed the learning process and the necessity of going through “the pain of learning”; the process involves being uncomfortable before you can take in new information and integrate it.
Wiser, your comment was so astute–I appreciate you sharing the insight your therapist offered about the importance of self-awareness and willingness to struggle with one’s own issues. I am (and continue to be) genuinely invested in my own growth and self-awareness and have made a lot of progress in therapy. I thought I had a partner who was invested in the same thing, but his hasty departure with the very lame explanation of “My feelings have changed” proved to me that he is anything but self-aware and interested in truly working at a successful relationship. I have had NC with him since mid-January and am in a good place, but going forward, I’ll definitely be paying close attention to the level of self-awareness of potential suitors…and not just their words, but their actions.
This month will make 7 month of “No Contact”. I am eternally grateful. I feel wonderful! Although, I still think of him most days, but by no means in a good way. Never knew I could hate a person so much.
Freeatlast
I can relate to that feeling of hate. Even after 2 years free of the assclown, occasionally something said, done or seen can trigger a bad memory and I can feel a slow burn of hate for him rising.
I’m not normally a hater of anyone or anything and I have surprised myself when this feeling has arisen. Perhaps I’m still transitioning the 7 stages of grief and have hit the anger phase.
I know that given more time this feeling will eventually go away.
freeatlast and Pauline,
That’s interesting about hate and anger stage. Sometimes I wish I felt these feelings more frequently, so that I don’t remember only all the good things about the relationship. I did have the anger phase (screaming in the car, hitting the pillow, working out intensely, running and crying at the same time, whatever to release so much anger, in a safe way), but that phase didn’t last long. I think I might have suppressed or shortened that phase and the anger was/is reversed and internalized as shame and guilt, on which I am working to relieve myself from. I take too much responsibility for what happened. I do not hate him at all. Sometimes I wish I did, but then if you think about it, anger is just another way to hold on to the past. Just like shame and guilt. Obviously more work to do on ourselves. Either feeling is controlling us from moving on,but perhaps it’s all still part of grieving as long as though we are not stuck permanently and that’s where I am confused. When do you know you are stuck in the recycling or when it’s still normal. I have a feeling that the longer the good times (not thinking of him at all and living a new life and feeling the goodness and renewal, feeling free) last, the more likely that the healing process is working. I would think if one is still stuck after 2-3 years with hate/shame, then there might be a problem of excessive recycling and avoiding to move on.
Sofia
What brought this to a head recently for me was that I had a series of texts from the AC in the last month from a different mobile number. As soon as I knew it was him I blocked the new number. I stupidly checked the spam folder and there was a series of texts getting more angry and nasty with me for not answering him.
(I won’t be checking the spam folder again in a hurry.)
After not hearing from him for so long and then this arrogant, abusive attitude as if I’m in the wrong for not replying, I really got angry.
Pushing all of my old buttons, he even sent a text saying he still loved me after calling me bad names, an old ploy of his that always used to work, not anymore though. I nearly went incandescent. Who the fuck does he think he is and more along those lines. Why would anyone keep trying after being told in no uncertain terms that you don’t want anything more to do with them. Pride, self respect and common sense would tell you to back off, go away and leave them alone but not this Assclown.
One thing I do know is the woman he used to know doesn’t exist now and I can see how far I have come. I never responded to any of his texts, that would give him a hook back into my life which he would take full advantage of with the inevitable results.
I feel you are right when you say after so long there must be excessive recycling with the hate/shame and I wasn’t consciously aware that it was still there. I am now.
Thanks Sofia, you’ve given me a lot to think about.
I think it depends what happens to you Sofia as to knowing how long it is before you are – stuck in recycling emotions point – some relationships i have had were fairly simple to move on from – others which were abusive much, much more difficult due to the recovering cycles that trauma naturally goes in before you are fully recovered.
It has been over three years for me but considering what happened was really extreme I feel it is acceptable for me to be occasionally recycling old stuff that still hurts like hell – I suppose the key is for me – what is the frequency things are re-occurring at? and length of time I am still stuck in it? – and for that a feelings diary is very handy for showing me how I am improving even though I am still going through the mill.
Its too difficult to accurately see improvement while you are in it but I feel the pain is decreasing and shorter bursts and there are signs from the outside building up – that seems to mirror this feeling – so that’s good enough for me currently.
Oona, that’s how I feel too. I am ok with occasional pain. I do know and feel that I am moving on because the frequency and intensity of the episodes are decreasing overtime. It is a slow process. I agree with you it depends what happened during the relationship. How traumatic it was on one’s psyche.
Suki You wrote: “I think anger is about entitlement esp. in the face of rejection; ‘you will love me dammit, and you will listen!’ (isn’t that what our parents did, and isn’t that what we are doing with partners?). Its demanding validation, and demanding change. Its being unable to say ‘well, if he behaves like this, its not healthy, and it doesnt mean that I am not okay, and also I can’t make him change’. Instead, we need to practice actually accepting yourself and others for who they are and acting accordingly.”
This is exactly my situation. It is crazy how familiar that sounds. I grew up with an incredibly demanding, authoritarian father who did not have any boundaries. I learned that behavior and now when I feel threatened it comes out by me demanding love instead of waiting for it. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR RESPONSE. It is so hard for me to remember right now while I am not hearing from this ex, and feeling that it is because I pushed him away that a.) nothing will change without me taking time to examine and forgive myself and b.) that it was a dynamic, not just me. Thanks again. <3
Danica, and perhaps we can’t wait for love or demand it. We just have to practice it and create it together, over time.
I think with problematic parenting it takes us a long time to realize that that was not love, and then to start practicing something healthier including with ourselves. I used to put myself down so much, entertained so many fools and mean girls, etc.
We werent heard growing up. And we’re still not hearing ourselves; when we feel sad/bad/mad we just get reactive instead of accepting our feelings or talking through them or acting in line with our feelings and needs. We deny our feelings and needs. And we dont accept our partner’s feelings – the guy is telling us in so many ways how unreliable he is, or how much he wants out, how much he is not ready for what we want and we dont accept it.
Treat yourself with kindness, as an interesting book in a slightly strange dialect that you have to learn. Be more curious rather than putting yourself down. The longer he doesnt contact you, it will make you validate yourself rather than getting a quick fix from him.
Suki, this post is deliciously accurate…very much my reality for so long. And it is true that we have to learn our own dialect, because it is a book we had never taken off the shelf before now. We didn’t even know it was in the library!
Suki & Elgie R., I love the book analogies as well as the suggestion to be more curious rather than putting yourself down.
I’ve started catching myself when the critical parent starts in, and instead I speak to myself the way I would want to be spoken to – with kindness. It is starting to become a habit and the critical parent shows up a lot less!
Yes, Suki and Elgie R…. it’s so funny. I’m 34 years old and I feel I have mistaken feeling terrible about myself for that curiosity you mention. Going to therapy and saying “what is wrong with me!?” “how did i get this way?” instead of saying “what do i want to create?” “who do i WANT to be?” “what makes me tick?” I am so beyond happy that I found this site.
And Scott, thank you for the articles. I have never been divorced, but I am definitely a “walking wounded” as you say… mostly from daddy issues. I’ve been in therapy for a few years now, and I am praying that at some point in my life the healing (which I feel is happening right now) will be less acute.
@Danica,
As much as my ‘shame’ is not mine but engraved on me by my abusive father (guilt trip as I write this), your anger is not ‘yours’ either.
It takes time to overcome old patterns and being patient with yourself is a start. I think you already did the first step: recognizing your patterns of anger. I went through it for the last couple of years with my family, ex MM, fake friends..
The next step for me was this: whenever I felt the anger (or even rage sometimes!) rise inside of me I tell myself :”This is not me. I am not this weak and ugly. I am quiet and strong.” You should find your own true affirmations. I really do find it connected to self-esteem. Accepting yourself and recognizing your value and beaty and uniqueness will quiet these out-of-true-character moments. Nobody hurts other people intentionally, it’s not in our human nature. So to recap my (and your) struggle:
1. Recognize your past patterns
2. Get rid of toxic relationship
3. Surround yourself with positives: true and tried friends, pets, loving members of family
4. Notice the beauty of nature and people
5. Ask qestions and find answers through: therapy, BR, self-help books
I am still doing it and I see a progress. I hope you remain honest with yourself. It’s great you decided to ask questions! Some people never do. Hugs, all the best.
Suki and Elgie, your posts helped me so much. I really can identify with the experience u had with your ex-EU, Suki (sounds exactly like the dynamic I had with mine), and the insight into where to go from here is something I’m going to re-read over & over. It really struck a chord with me, as I’m presently stuck in anger-mode – at him, at me, and at my Mom for where much of these unhealthy beliefs and patterns first took flight. Looking to rise above all that, and your awesome post was really eye-opening for me. Elgie, I love your Cody journal and thoughts about self-love. Don’t know where I’d be today if I hadn’t found Baggage Reclaim. Bless u Nat and your readers too for the wisdom and support!
What a great article! This reminds me so much of myself and my sisters. My younger sister especially is a people-pleaser to the point that it is uncomfortable. She’ll do anything for anyone but will never accept anything or any help. I have an extremely hard time sticking up for myself and when I do, I always retract and apologize. Heaven forbid that anyone should ever feel uncomfortable around us, even if they are being a total jerk. Where did this come from?? I don’t know. I do have a volatile and narcissistic mother. Perhaps that’s a big part of it. Or it’s cultural. A lot of women seem to suffer from this phenomenon.
On the topic of shame, I have been having more and more insights into the MM I was seeing. I think he has an ego the size of Texas and that he actually enjoys rejecting me on some level. I can see it because since I’ve been truly NC for the longest period yet, and he keeps fishing around on email for attention, I think just so that he can reject me again and stay in control. That’s my take on it anyways. But I’ve been staying NC to the extent that I can.
He sent something to my assistant the other day that he must have KNOWN she would flip to me and I would have to deal with. When I responded to him (in a totally cold and professional way) because I had to, he acted like I was after him and he was trying to shut me down again. What a loser! All I ever did was be honest about my feelings and he is trying to make it seems like I’m a child who wants his love and attention when really, he is the childish one! When he was shining his love on me and telling me that I was the one he wanted, it felt great. But even then, I remember feeling like something wasn’t quite right. It was this feeling like if we were going to be together one day that it was because we were better than everyone else and that the other people involved were chumps. I don’t think that way at all. I just fell in love with him, but it didn’t make me think the man I was with was any worse or that his wife was a loser. They weren’t worse and we wereNt better, just like he and his wife aren’t the big winners now. There’s no winners and losers, just love and deciding who you want to be with. The fact that this guy thinks like this says a lot about him. He has so little self-awareness and so little regard for other peoples’s feelings that it’s mind boggling. I feel ashamed that I didn’t see it earlier or that I did see it, but chose to ignore it because I didn’t want it to be true.
Anyways, enough self-shame and blame. I am working hard to move on. I had a job interview this morning that went really well. I am avoiding him in the hallways at work and places I think he might be and continuing to opt out of work events. I am feeling better and better, but shame is getting me down today.. I feel embarrassed that I fell for this guy and that he’s put me in the position of feeling bad about myself. I know i shouldn’t take on what he thinks, but it’s hard not to when you like someone and care about their feelings for you. But he’s the one trying to make me feel this way. Who does that to someone?? I never would. If someone liked me the way that I liked him, I would try to be extremely kind to them. The fact that he is cold then hot, rude, condescending and tries to stay in control and cast me as a rejected loser says a lot about him. This guy isn’t worth my time of day, let alone the effort I put into making things work out with him before. Good riddance .. to him and the ridiculous shame game he is playing!!
Leanne, I think these men (women) like rejecting others, enjoy causing pain and meting out punishments for disobedience. I also think he’s angry at you because you got away and not wanting to play hot and cold game with him anymore. I think he brought his pregnant wife to the work party to parade her and her belly in front of you and cause you pain.
I think you can be really proud of yourself and how far you’ve come. Good luck with your job interview. And when you feel guilty/ ashamed just remember, you’ve made a mistake but it wasn’t such a gargantuan one (you weren’t sexually involved). You don’t need to be perfect, you’re just human and bound to make mistakes.
Leanne WATCH OUT he is sniffing for an Energy Ego Stroke – this is serious – time for extreme alert – he has worked out you are putting yourself back together because you stopped running after him and he has come back to reset button – as soon as he gets an energy ego stroke or anything he can sign off as near one – he’ll steal all YOUR good energy and suck the wind from those beautiful sails you have carefully managed into place.
STAY AWAY FROM HIM – HE IS VERY DANGEROUS RIGHT NOW – BE ULTRA CAREFUL – HE SENSES YOU ARE ALMOST OUT OF THE DOOR IN RELATIONSHIP TERMS (let alone real terms).
Ask yourself – What married man who has had an affair and is now back in his marriage, would go anywhere near you or YOUR assistant?!!????? Not a good one – STAY AWAY – DO NOT BE REELED BACK IN UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE – NEXT HE MAY TRY MORE UNDERHAND THINGS TO GET YOUR ATTENTION – BE READY TO DEAL WITH SURPRISE DIRECT COMMUNICATION FROM HIM – FIND SENTENCES TO BE POLITE BUT SHUT HIM DOWN AND WALK AWAY IMMEDIATELY – ‘I’M BUSY’ ETC… which you are – putting yourself back together again, after this joker.
Natalie you’re a guardian angel. Last night saw my first appointment at relate. I’m single, and have been for the last 3 years. When dating or in relationships I have always been drawn to narcisstic, subtly (and not so subtly) abusive men. My closest female friendship has been abusive at times too. Why? Because I grew up with abusive parents, a narcissistic mother and I have never fully addressed the effects that this has had on me.
I know I’m reasonably attractive and likeable, intelligent etc yet it’s as though I only have a superficial relationship with myself. I don’t connect strongly enough with myself to take care of my needs and so pleasing these men is easy because I can ignore my own discomfort. This has to stop and it is partly because of your amazing posts that I have the strength to move forward and for healthier patterns. Thank you! X
“I know I’m reasonably attractive and likeable, intelligent etc yet it’s as though I only have a superficial relationship with myself. I don’t connect strongly enough with myself to take care of my needs and so pleasing these men is easy because I can ignore my own discomfort.”
That’s a great way to explain that.
Hi Natalie.
This post succinctly articulated a lot I have discovered about myself. Last weekend my two boys and I attended a camp. I always come away from these camps feeling revoltingly self loathing. This post explains why.
I owe my eldest son an apology. I wanted him to curtail his randomly bizarre, attention seeking behaviour to help ME fit in with the other mainstream, nuclear families. My son exudes a rainbow of light on the world, and last weekend, I attempted to dim it. Oh dear. Learned behaviour…
So, Natalie, my son will get his apology, a more aware mum and the world will get a shining star. Look at the gifts you gave! Thank you.
Thank you, Wiser, for reminding me of the most important quality in another relationship – the willingness to be self-aware and have insight.
I have felt a lot of shame in my life and not been kind enough to myself. I am still not there yet. It has been a really difficult year for me and sometimes I feel that my head is just barely above water. I left my home, community, job, stability, economic security etc behind when I left the long-term marriage. It was the ONLY decision and it took me years to see things and extract myself but there is still big loss there that has been hard on me. I came to another city to get away from my ex, am pretty much through working in the same field (another loss actually), and things have been hard. Adjusting to school has been challenging but interesting and engaging – it is hard to see where my contribution will be though…because it won’t be in academia.
The friend who promised me the rental of a floor of her mother’s house (she died many years ago) for the 3-4 years I needed for my degree became instantly controlling, prying and interfering as soon as I moved in – not respecting my privacy and wanting me to do things the way her mother did. I got hit by a cyclist last February and have been in recovery since then….that has been painful and difficult but I have been successful and now run and do everything I used to – although still have pain and a sense of loss about my body.
So this friend decided I had to leave because she didn’t want anybody living in her mother’s house anybody.and told me in the most hurtful circumstances – no recognition at all for her betrayal and the implications it would have on me, which are many.
And it has gotten much worse so that I feel so low, can’t recognize my accomplishments, feel I am a loser and haven’t been able to meet my own hopes and expectations, that perhaps my decisions have been wrong, that I can’t assess people well…because in the end this woman is a lot like my ex – full of self righteousness and the belief that she is well intended and that is enough. So right now I feel destabilized – I can see that I have made so many changes but right now I feel completely overwhelmed. How can I get back to a place of being kind to myself when I feel so done in?
One step at a time Expresso and it is possible – write a list of all the things you want to change in your life, choose the most important and pressing need to you first and then move on to the next one – be gentle on yourself and reward yourself each time you have achieved one – very important – and do not set yourself up to fail by trying to do too much at once or expecting too much of your self – when judging how you feel, compare yourself with how you felt yesterday, do not compare yourself with anyone else right now.
Your friend shouldn’t have rented the property to you – from your description she was clearly not in the correct mental place to do so and may have perfectly valid emotional reasons she ignored – so losing it, may be the break you actually need to start to flourish and thrive in your exciting new environment.
I had three days, once, to find a new home and I found a great place I’d never have got otherwise. It can be amazing sometimes what can come to you in your hour of need. One step at a time.
Good luck and joy in your new home.
Ps Expresso I think it may be helpful for you to also work on why you become reliant upon these ‘helpful’ kinds of people and where else it may have happened in your life in the past?
Espresso, I know you’ve had a hell of a year and what you’ve written reminds me of the year right after I separated from my husband. I felt crazy, scared, had no idea what I was doing, didn’t really have plans… and yet I had a spiritual connection with God that I had never had before. I had nowhere else to turn – and it was like hitting bottom and cracking open – and finding out that instead of falling to pieces, I was being upheld in a way I had not experienced before. It was also like jumping off a cliff and realizing a net was there that would catch me. And slowly I started to relax and completely surrender to this mystery that was my life and my future. I let go of trying to figure it all out and simply tried to rest in a feeling of trust and optimism. There was a lot of crap to deal with externally, but internally I had never felt so grounded and secure. I highly recommend whatever you have to do to feel that deep grounding. That’s the kindest thing you can do for yourself. Also find some affirmations that give you that deep, calm feeling. For me, one of the most important ones is “Whatever happens, I’ll be ok.” Or another one, which is a kind of a paradox but makes me feel so secure… “Even when things aren’t ok, it’s still ok.”
Also, stay away from toxic, controlling people, no matter how “helpful” they seem to be. Better to rent a room in a YMCA than stay with people who are going to make you more miserable. After what you went through with your ex (and I remember your posts!), you absolutely do NOT need to get all enmeshed with another crazy person. The more grounded you are in yourself and the sense that God is helping you, the less the behavior of others can diminish your peace of mind and your feelings about yourself. I wish that for you very much.
You have already done an amazing and brave thing – left the marriage, which I know wasn’t easy; moved yourself to a new place, started over with work and school. This is awesome, Espresso! If there are rough patches, that’s to be expected. Don’t beat yourself up because it’s not all Bliss City the first year. It took me several years to get myself together. And hey, ten years later, after my divorce, I’m still here! Taking care of myself all that time. I had my rough patches, believe me. I spent plenty of time on the floor in a fetal position. But I never second guessed myself about the decision to leave the marriage. It was very clear to all of us here at BR (and I hope to you too) that you had to get out of that destructive relationship. It WILL get better for you too. Big hugs!
Espresso, things are reeling a bit out of control for you, aren’t they. I’m sorry you are caught up in such a whirlwind of disruption.
Take a breath, and realize, everything is negotiable.
Can you try to stabilize your living conditions. Don’t know the details of your residency, but if rent is involved, and you have been paying it in a timely fashion, and aren’t in arrears, then things are negotiable. If your accident put you in arrears, then it is time to pay up with labor, like daily chores.
She has the right to dictate the rules, especially if you are living there rent free, and especially if she lives there too.
Sit with your ex-friend and work out ON PAPER the rules for living in that house for the next 4 months, with the goal of you finding a new place to live in that period. The rules should cover everything, including rules about conduct in the home (for example – wash dishes after eating), and noise, and facility use – everything that has been a bone of contention.
Just my opinion. Hope something is useful.
In new situations find myself having a wrestling match with myself sometimes over how much is too much or too little. Am I talking “too much/too little” (I tend to be on the reserved side), except here. I even find myself wondering here if I’m posting “too much”. I’m so excited about this community of like-minded people and I enjoy the exchange. But then the shame kicks in and I feel the urge to withdraw.
The old message “who do you think you are?” comes to mind.
I struggle with wanting to be seen and heard and being afraid/ashamed of being seen and heard.
Thanks @oona, I don’t know why I still feel bad about everything, but i am really trying to stop. I think If I had been a shittier person I would have stayed involved with him (physically) because that seemed to be what he wanted. but I didn’t want to. I was just wanted to Stay friends but that was too hard and I couldn’t hear about their life together anymore. The back and forth with trying to stay friends has left me feeling really embarrassed though. I think he’s tried to frame it like I’m after him. No! I just tried to salvage what was once a good friendship, but clearly he’s not the man I thought he was. Why do I feel so bad?? I can’t wait to be fully over this. It is eating away at my self esteem, the way he’s treated me, when really that says more about his character than it does about mine. How can I stop myself from taking on his thoughts? Or what I imagine to be his thoughts now? Why do I even care??
Leanne its called enmeshment – you are enmeshed in him – and in order to survive you have to maintain keeping the focus on yourself 100% – its you or him full stop.
If he was any kind of gentleman he would leave you alone and let you heal and move on but if he wants to dump HIS guilt and shame and get a little ego stroke in the meantime – he will come back to you for some more – BEWARE a leopard in this case is NOT going to change his spots no matter how much he alludes to pretend that he just may….
Leanne
You’re doing great and it sounds like the ex is fishing for an ego stroke or to gain some control. It goes to show how these men really are all the same because you and I go through so many similar experiences. The fishing, reset button, getting to us via our employees.
Mine has started working directly with a bright new star I have and he keeps mailing me about how she is behaving and asking me if he can provide her various bits of feedback. It’s creepy and an invasion. I can’t work out if he’s trying to be my best work friend, or trying to recreate the relationship with my employee, or trying to make me think he is. It’s all pretty distasteful whatever. I’m politely thanking him for his feedback and leaving it be. Makes me shudder.
You will feel better about yourself and stop turning his behaviour in on yourself, hell I have!
Hugs
Colly, its called triangulation – he is using another to still maintain contact/control over you/hurt you and it is not acceptable – it is abusive to yourself considering your history together – disgusting – is there a way you can tell him you are busy when he calls/ emails? Hand him over to someone else Or … I am sure you are amazing but I am not interested. and repeat ‘I am not interested’ should he continue and then SHOW him in your actions you mean what you say ie walk away no discussion, put phone down, hand him repeatedly to someone else, do not open his email send it back to him with note saying – sorry I can’t open this right now.
You need to set firm boundaries with this person he is clearly violating you KNOWING both of your histories together by discussing another woman.
Telling him thanks for his contact – gives him an open door policy to do it to you again because you are thankful for his input – this is not the truth you are not thankful – you are busy putting yourself back together after what HE did to you.
Beware sending mixed messages Colly. You don’t have to be rude just to the point, firm and truthful on some level you connect with. He will resist initially but be firm and he will realise he is on to a loser and leave you alone.
or ask him right out = are you only contacting me to… x,y and z???
Personally I’ve never seen people run so fast when I’ve been straight up with them when they are using ambiguous statements and ruses to connect with me — and besides he’ll probably lie in response but he will know you are on to him and not prepared to lie about it to him anymore.
I remember that the last time, after a long period of NC, I broke down and sent a photo to an exEUM that was half sexual/half innocent (of a garment, not of myself) and said “This is beautiful”, he replied with a photo of his niece and saying “THIS is beatiful. This is my happiness” or something like this. I felt so ashamed of myself. Like I was this dark, rotten person for having a libido or liking lingerie. And I knew he liked the item. He used to go forever about those things and how good they look and how he likes seeing me wear them. I felt overwhelmed with guilt that I did not have a niece or for wanting a piece of garment. Or for having potential problems with bearing children (all solvable though).
And then I realized that although I have crossed a boundary (my own) and went back for more with him and gotten exactly the selfish reply aka the only reply I could expect from him. I remembered that his gf was a bad lover, that he was sexually frustrated and that he hated me for having sexual desires and liking lingerie that alluded to that. I saw that he tried to shame me. I understood that his reaction was about his belief that a woman could only be either a Madonna OR a prostitute. And during our “relationship” he would shame me for having desires (for him, mind you!). For him it was a proof I’d be a bad mother to his children.
I got the punch I deserved for breaking NC (it was a long time ago) but I also saw him for the manipulator he was. My shame of myself transformed into being disgusted by his stupid shaming me and I blocked his contacts.
Not to mention that the association in his mind between sexy lingerie and his niece is disturbing. V.
V, that’s an interesting observation! Did not even cross my mind. But it’s his whole kids vs sexually active women mindset. One is pure, the other is dirty. However, he wanted the latter but hated me for it.
Why, that man was projecting his own guilt onto you with his reply. He was trying to act as if he “evolved above such carnal pursuits” and trying to make you feel lower for having such “base desires”. Anytime someone makes attempts to make you feel “less than”, something inside of you should immediately recognize that, and you should then kick their projected negativity to the curb. But I understand you were feeling emotionally weak at the time, you were lonely and in need of validation, and you sought it from someone who used to give it to you. You even tried to get it on his terms, the way it had worked before, on the sexual enjoyment aspect. Yeah, it does seem he had a Madonna-whore complex, but what he was most upset about was his own carnal desires.
You say it was a while ago, but sometimes we continue to psychic shame ourselves. No need to beat yourself up over this ever again. He did do a U-Turn, and it was about HIS shame.
Elgie, thank you so much for your kind words and support!
Why, I agree with what Elgie R is saying. One time or actually more than one time, I would send a sexy pic of me (and we had been in a relationship for 6 months + at that point) to the ex. He would respond something like “wow, is this some porn scam? I am deleting it.” (joking I guess but came out so serious and offensive to me. No compliment. Nothing.) Mind you it was nothing outrageous. Just a sexy lingerie pic with all (well almost) body parts covered. But he was my boyfriend and it was just a little tease and flirt on my part. He shamed me for it and I felt like shit and slutty being so expressive and sexual. Yet I know he liked that stuff, what man doesn’t. He made me feel so bad for that and sexy texts or expressions or being sexual with him. Yet I know he liked it. It’s like he repressed it in himself, pulled away from me, and made me feel like I was too loose and dirty. It was so weird. Your story reminded me that something else was off in my relationship besides so many other things… Nothing is wrong with what you did. Don’t feel bad. I fully support what Elgie R is saying.
Sofia, thank you for sharing your story. Yes, it sounds very familiar.
We had fantastic sex, mind you. It was the only thing that was truly good about that relationshit. And he craved it. A lot. So did I. But then there’d be those intermissions where he’d imply that I was somehow impure for having those desires. Yet he had the very same desires. Ironically, his gf is a Madonna (on this spectre) but he still was not happy. I suppose it was just one of the mechanisms of his commitmentphobic self to punish and distance us both once we got too close. I don’t really want to go into there. But you’re absolutely right, it’s their thing PLUS it’s a sign that something is really off.
Why, I think it’s sort of a hallmark of EUMs that they have sexual issues — a Madonna/whore complex. Probably the way they were brought up. My ex could be like that — we always had a good sex life, but he couldn’t seem to see me as someone to build a life with. One time during one of our breaks, he began dating someone who was his “ideal” — she played piano, was into art, spoke different languages, etc. (all the shit he does — he is his own ideal). Anyway, later on I got into his email and found he had written a letter telling his friend how terrible their sex life was, that he couldn’t finish with her, etc. Erm, no, I guess because she wasn’t the ‘whore’ (which has nothing to do with having sex mind you, I’m sure I’d been with less guys than her, I’ve been with less guys than most women — yet somehow he put me in the “whore” category just because he was sexually attracted to me). These guys have all sorts of problems and will never make good boyfriends/husbands, because if they ever commit to you, their erection shrivels up and floats away (and lands on a “whore”).
I mean anyone who responds to a flirty lingerie text with someone about his niece is weird with a capital W.
Diane, I laughed at your comment so hard 🙂 Thank you! Weird with a capital W indeed!
Why – my interpretation is a little different to others and you may not like it/it may not be right – who knows? – I read him as sending the photo of a niece (who is a child I guess?) – who acts instinctively for themselves – as being beautiful vs your text appealing to HIS satisfaction trying to hook him and gain validation from him by being who you believe he would want – as beautiful.
Irrespectively of who is right or wrong, his reply says he’s just not that into you, it was done in an hurtful, uncaring manner and there is nothing wrong with what you sent – apart from you sent it to a guy who has no ability to validate you for who you are. You did well to work this out and non contact from then on.
I hope he isn’t ever allowed to be alone with the niece.
I am shamed over a recent event but am getting over it quickly. The new ‘nice guy’ from on line dating who was moving too fast for me has unfolded and I have opted out after two months. I have gotten early signs of controlling behavior ( like saying my skirts are too short, questioning whether other guys approach me etc.) My alarm bells were starting to chime. The final straw for me was sitting on the couch with him, innocently scrolling through Netflix on his tv to pick out a movie, when I hit a wrong button on his Smart TV remote and his recent history came up and there was a large as life close picture of his ex wife’s hoo hoo staring me in the face from a 48 inch tv screen. eewww. OMG, I was speechless. I looked over at him in shock and said, wtf, who is that? he said, “my ex wife, but I never look at it. Wrong. Lie, it was showing up in recent history Then the sob story came out how he was trying to delete it, couldn’t figure out how, wasn’t looking at it, swear on my life, blah blah blah. Of course he was looking at it thats why it’s in his recent history. He figured out how to put the pic on his tv didn;t he? , which he bought, by the way, long AFTER he was divorced. Okay, it gets worse. Last week he sent me a text saying he broke his chair while masturbating thinking of me ( yep, this grossed me out too) Recent ex wife beaver shot, broke chair, “multi orgasmic male” books lying around, pink fuzzy handcuffs in his drawer ( he showed me, I never snooped). I felt like I had walked into an audition for a porn flick. I calmly left ( well, after saying I was disgusted by seeing his ex”s hoo hoo) while he cried like a baby, pleaded with me, chased my car up the driveway. I was done. Just like that. I am shamed because I had hopes again, and again, I met a shady guy who was good at knowing what to say. I am also shamed because a a tiny part of me wants to belive him, that he is a good guy and was trying to delete the hoo pics of his wife, and attemtpign to be respectful but it backfired on him. so, I was intimate with him, which now makes me kinda gag. I am so grossed out right now. I was starting to feel my gut poking me, that this guy might have some secrets and not be who he is pretending to be. Something was off, and he stared at womens’ assess everywhere we went anyway, which turned me off too. No matter how nice he was to me, or how many things he did for me…..dodgy sex stuff jut gives me the creeps. I am not thrilled to have a guy I’m with into porn in the first place, but to keep porn (very graphic I might add) of his ex wife and still look at it is a deal breaker for me.. Yuck. The good ending? I drove home feeling okay. I am a little bothered by all this, and disappointed, but okay. My peace has not been too rattled. I kept my feet on the ground, let him unfold and when the info said what it said, I bailed. He was saying he wanted to marry me, grow old with me, take care of me, etc. etc. He was saying I LOVE you and guilting me for not saying it back. Way to fast for me and had begun starting to guilt me for not wanting to talk on the phone for three hours or for wanting to spend one of my days off alone. I have been getting texts all day pleading with me. Bummer is, I drove off with a bunch of his stuff in my car. A heavy message table, too big to send to him. Yep,he gave me a two or three hour professional massage at least once a week. Kinda hard to walk away from that after being single for so long. But, I am joking of course. I am sad that this ended the way it did and my hopes are over, in the snap of a finger. But, life goes on. Me with it.
To clarify, I was intimate with him prior to this picture fiasco, not after. Also, I think I am handling this okay because I know I am okay on my own, and just as I am. Bullet dodged.
Selkie, bullet dodged for sure! Don’t slam yourself for having slept with him. You tried, you were patient, then he unfolded and you left. NEXT!
PS: He sounds a bit creepy and maybe desperate? Good one on you for bailing out so soon.
Thanks Why. I hadn’t touched a man in two years so it was a big step for me. I insisted he get all checked out with his MD before I slept with him, which he did. I’m thankful for that anyway.
Selkie, thank you for sharing. First of all, another reminder how gruesome online dating is.
You handled it very well.
But I can only imagine how grossed out and dirty you feel. In the sense like you just got out from a muddy swamp. Reading what you wrote is making me scared. And sick of how many weird people are out there. Even if they seem so normal on the outside. Online especially is dangerous. Makes me sealed even more in my decision to stay single. After 2-3 attempts to date in the last 6 months, and after an attempt to reconnect with my long-distance friend, whom I have known for over 7 years and who I thought was very close to me but checked out about a year ago, I realized that he is gone too. He replied that he loves me and always will. I heard that line for couple years, but only now I see clearly that his words mean NOTHING. NOTHING. He has made no action to prove what he has been saying for some time now.
The clarity makes me free and numb at the same time. I feel tired and expired. I feel I have no resources or energy for any kind of relationship anymore. Personal or friendship. All of my energy goes to my child.
I am firmly set now, as never before in my life, that we don’t really need anyone. We can do it on our own. We can’t demand or expect anything from anybody. We have ourselves. I have come to the resolution to not even try anymore. Has been an interesting week for me. I feel completely burned out. I think I am done and I am fine with it. Finally. Amen.
Thanks, Selkie. Quite a reminder to stay put and in peace where I am. I am sorry for the mess you went through.
Selkie and Sofia…
Selkie… OMG, but what a story. I’m sure part of you is grateful for your remote control malfunction. The fact that he wanted you to be “ok” with it and stay, wow, would he have adorned you the duty of e-vag deletion since he “didn’t know how”? Good for you for calmly walking out. I hope you can return his table and not have to see him. And you are right about all the moving too fast signs. He’s a chair breaker AND a deal breaker.
Sofia and Selkie,
The theme of needing/ wanting someone is one I also toss around. When I question my wanting/ needing to meet “one sincere real good guy” I feel like I’m being selfish. I don’t even know if it’s a want or a need and then I think that it MUST be so difficult and seemingly unobtainable for a reason. Maybe this is a selfish want, and will happen for only for certain people. I NEVER imagined that finding someone to share my life with could be so difficult, cause such pain, and deplete my energy like it has. I have taken YEARS off of dating. “he’s just around the corner” and “it’ll happen when you’re not trying”… Ok, but 7 years??? Like both of you, I’m sure, I have things I’d like to do and share with a life partner. I don’t want to be invited on the couple’s wine tour because there’s one seat left to fill and the other single seat is someone’s 70 yr old father. I don’t want to be told I’m lucky I don’t have to answer to a husband. I wouldn’t allow someone to demand things of me in the first place. But I want someone to fall asleep with, to wake up with that wants to participate fully. But like Sofia, I wonder do we really not need anyone? Is it just a selfish want? If does sometimes feel painful and shameful. Painful for the persistent unmet want/ need and shameful for even HAVING the want/ need. I have friend’s who tell me how wonderful and fabulous I am. It’s difficult to believe them anymore, because I’ve allowed rejection to chip away my positive beliefs. I’ve been told that people are single for a reason- because they are undateable. Oh, but I’m the exception. Everyone else is single because they have serious issues. I don’t run around broadcasting this attitude, but I feel like BR is a safe forum to gain insight with these issues. I know that we are these wonderful, giving people who have been doing the hard work, and are SO self aware. It just feels sometimes like there is zero ROI. I just saw the movie Still Alice. It reinforced my belief that our families, relationships and memories are the most important “things” we carry with us through life. Beautiful and heartbreaking. Happy Easter.
Say Something,
I completely understand you. It is normal to want to have a family, to love and be loved, to have a partner, to do things together, to care for each other in health and sickness. I want those things too. But I am learning to accept that I might stay single. 9 years of being single officially and on. I am convincing myself that I don’t have to have a partner to have a complete life as a woman. It’s hard, but that’s the only way to build a happy life by yourself. Perhaps something is undateable and non-relationship in me too. I don’t know anymore. I am building my new life as it is and making it work and finding content and peace and love in it through other sources other than a man. I know though where you are coming from. Totally agree and understand.
Sofia and Say Something,
I was finally in a good place with myself when I decided to try online dating. I actually had fun meeting new people and it was good for me to put myself out there, but it was scary too. I told myself that I would give it a real try but underlying my enthusiasm was the fear that if things went to shit and I got hurt again or jerked around that I may be discouraged enough to be done with dating for good. So, like you I wonder if my peace is worth trying again. I like being part of a couple, but think I can live without it. So far, the calmest, most peaceful time of my life has been the last two years when I wasn’t interested in dating at all. Having a few days to absorb it all, I’m not totally discouraged but I entered into this feeling pretty good abut myself and didn’t place my happiness in the hands of finding a relationship. I was already happy. A few years ago I would of made this all about me not being good enough, sexy enough, young enough, etc etc etc. But…this isn’t about me. It feels good to stop blaming myself. Never thought I’d get here, but here I am. I changed my goals a couple years ago which involved my dreams of building a cob house, selling art that I create and living off the land. This always involved and included a partner in my mind. When I finally made the shift mentally that I could do this on my own instead of waiting for the right man to show up, I released some pressure on myself. I gave myself permission to start living life NOW instead of waiting for a man to come along so I could make plans. It helped. And about being undateable…..I am the best I’ve ever been and I have no doubt you are fabulous wonderful women too. I think the world has shifted since we were kids and the dating scene is not what it used to be. There are so many choices now with a click of a mouse that people get lazy and instead of doing the work and becoming a better person, they just move on to the next. It’s emotional immaturity. I choose to be better than that, and so do you. It’s called integrity.
The remote malfunction, I believe was the universe tapping me on the shoulder. I believe we get signs and omens all the time. It’s whether we choose to pay attention and listen to them.
I love that…changing your goals and starting on them NOW instead of waiting for a partner. I think we waste a good portion of our lives waiting for someone…We’ll start living for real when they show up (or when we lose 10 lbs, etc..).
I think that’s one of the major blessings of getting older (or perhaps just maturing), this shift in perspective.
I looked up a cob house, very cool! I’d like to build an eco home next time around and am constantly looking at ideas.
Am right there with you that we get signs and omens all the time! Such gifts. I often put it out there when I’m unsure about a person or situation that I need a sign/guidance and then I pay very close attention.
Selkie and Sofia,
It’s so good to hear from you both. I’ve been sad today on Easter, ruminating and remembering Easter with BGE. We both went our separate ways for Easter brunch, then met back up. Was it a red flag that when I invited him to Easter dinner (restaurant) with my family and he declined, saying he had to go to his family’s dinner? We’d been together 4- 4 1/2 months. His grown son and twin brother (who hadn’t spoken to him for months) did not even go. Was it a red flag that I created a special custom Easter basket (and his it in a closet) and he gave me … NOTHING.
I told myself it was selfish to expect anything, he’s a guy, it’s just Easter, and not a reason to exchange gifts. Anyhow I felt so “awkward” that I’d brought a gift and he had done nothing, that I didn’t tell him about the hidden Easter basket until Monday night, well after I’d left his house. A couple days later he declared wonderful vacation intentions for the two of us. (It never happened, because he ditched me a month later and back peddled and threw gas lighting at me surrounding the vacation). But I have these lingering memories of BGE because all the time I spent with him was actually GOOD.
The negative was more about what he DIDN’T do. I suppose Natalie might call this managing down expectations. I could expect kindness, affection, and attention. That’s not much effort. Anyhow, deep breath and sigh for ruminating. I hate that I could even miss him.
Sofia, you said you have 9 years of being single. But last year you WERE in a relationship. So were there others before him? BGE was the ONLY one I’d count as an actual relationship since 2009, when I started post divorce “dating”.
ughh… Online dating. Click. Click. Click. The grass is always greener? Maybe it’s artificial turf. The grass is always greener? Maybe it’s contaminated by chemicals. The grass is always greener? Maybe someone else is being paid to care for it. My lawn has some dandelions, but I take care of it myself and it’s safe and it’s real.
So here’s a story to make you laugh I hope. Last post I listed all my attempts at online dating. Well last night #5 dentist (he recently revealed he’s on the state medical marijuana list) texted me. We write once in awhile, and basically have a casual online friendship, nothing more. Additionally I was by (recap):
#23. college soccer coach- we never met… He emailed me weeks later to “apologize” for his disappearing act. Round 2 attempt he said when can you meet. I picked Saturday and he said he’d be out of town. Done.
Here’s the end of our texting:
I want to meet you
Yes, you’ve said previously that you wanted to meet me. I remember
Let’s do it
And last time after you asked me when, I suggested and you replied that you’d be out of town.
So, tomorrow
Ok, well you get ahold of me tomorrow if you haven’t disappeared by then
Lol. I will 🙂
K, we’ll see
Goodnight
Sweet dreams 🙂
Ladies, you KNOW how this ended. Exactly as expected. I am NOT sure why he keeps contacting me. Of course since I’ve been broken in a million pieces by BGE, this doesn’t hurt. Just a bit annoying is all. And hopefully at least a smile for you both and other readers.
Please check out this article. I copied and pasted most of it into my online dating profile. Not that it has made a difference, but WOW. WOW. And W O W:
http://thoughtcatalog.com/jamie-varon/2014/12/this-is-how-we-date-now/
Wishing for and sending thoughts of tranquility 🙂
Typos above-
*hid not his (regarding Easter basket)
*contacted via text (regarding online soccer coach)
I think you’ll figure it out tho.
Interesting article. It is the same thoughts I have about how dating has changed. Thanks for sharing it.
I think it also extends into other relationships as well. Everyone’s so darn distracted. I think as a society we are quickly losing/discarding our social skills and our ability to really connect.
I (wrongly) thought that if I posted the majority of this article in my profile I’d attract like-minded guys. Nope.
CLICK. “Guy that forgot to wipe his mouth and comb his hair” is interested in you!
CLICK. “Guy laying on his back taking a selfie in bed wearing a stained beater” just made you his favorite!
CLICK. “Guy with no profile picture” likes your photo!
CLICK. “Guy hoo cant rite a sentince” emailed you: I lik you’re proofile
CLICK. “Guy who changed his username to stalk you because you might think he’s a different guy” likes your photo!
CLICK. “Biggest creeper ever – he’s 67 but wants to date 30-45 yr olds” is interested in you!
CLICK. “invisible guy #2” just winked at you! Flirt right back!
Seriously. I think I’m saying things to attract people I might be interested in. I started forwarding these notifications to my (married) friends to show them that I’m not making this stuff up! Why, when putting real stuff that means DON’T JUST CLICK AT ME do I continue to attract what I don’t want. Because clicking is lazier and easier that making a decent first impression?
I’m making jokes, but that doesn’t take away from the cold, hard reality that it’s brutal
and ugly and creepy. But behind ONE door in the biggest structure ever MIGHT be a good guy. But you don’t have a key to get in. Ouch.
I don’t give out my cell number, so I’m managing to completely avoid these texter dudes, but my friends get them. They get a little jolt of something — they probably feel as long as they are texting someone, they are “trying.” I will email guys but they disappear quickly over email if they aren’t going to put forth any effort. Something about texting — I once had a dude text me on and off for 2 years after ONE date. He never asked me out again … and I never responded to his texts … but he would text. I don’t think it mattered to him or not whether I responded, because it wasn’t about me.
Say Something,
I think you need to stay away from online dating. It’s damaging your fragile self-esteem and broken heart right now and it’s depressing. Just reading about your experiences online makes me feel good I am out of that game. Just spend time being on your own for a little while.
The relationship I had in 2013 that ended early 2014 is the first relationship I had since I got divorced in 2006. I did have some one-few night(s) stand “relationships” and some awkward friends with benefits or casual non-relationships. This one was my first serious (to me) relationship since my divorce. I was ready to settle down, but little did I know I was too broken. I had to be fixed. I am almost repaired now. 🙂 Still way to go.
Sofia,
“BGE” was also who I THOUGHT was my first authentic relationship. Like you, I dabbled around but never found the right fit. He is THE ONLY MAN I ever allowed in my bed since my divorce. Because I was SURE. And he was The One. And I waited months to even get to that point. I had never felt SO RIGHT about anyone in my life, and I was married for 20 years, but took years “off dating” in between.
Anyhow, you are right when you mentioned earlier that I still seemed raw. I have never admitted this to anyone, but here goes… On TLW (The Last Weekend) I remember thinking, this relationship is SO good, So right, and I felt like we were moving to that “next level” kind of place, going into 6 months. I actually THOUGHT that “this could be the weekend we say I love you” because it just can’t get better than this, where we are right now.” I’d thought we’d taken our time, not rushing into that, being respectful of each other, getting along so well, having “that feeling”, the great sex, on the same page with all that discuss. Instead, he broke my heart and elected to never see me again. I am HORRIFIED that my feelings could have been THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what he was feeling. How could he pretend to be so into me, invite me up for the weekend, continue playing the role of BGE, and then drop a bomb? I’m so embarrassed that I was completely unaware, when I’ve always been the type of person to pay attention and be aware. And so everyday, STILL, I run it through my mind. I’m convinced he was the best poker-faced “nice guy” mind-f*ck charmer I’ve ever known. I’ve never been so sure and so wrong. Or even close. A blind-side that has left me questioning my own reality. How can my perception be 100% wrong? How could I dare to have believed all he seemed to be? What were his intentions, ever?
It’s like I was the warm bodied, generic stopgap that fulfilled everything he wanted. FOR NOW. But yes, I had a shelf life, and didn’t have a clue. The one thing I am certain of is that I
didn’t do anything wrong. Except believe him. And I believed that my judgment was intact when I was able to get to the point of believing, trusting, and investing. So now I’m embarrassed, humiliated, and horrified on top of being
traumatized, sad, and devastated. I can’t believe I just admitted to this either. I have never felt so wrong in my life.
Say Something,
Learning to love ourselves, being secure, and being self aware are all signs of us being the best we can be, but it’s not a guarantee we’ll always recognize the lack of this in others. Some people are just really good at not showing what’s really going on inside. They are good at it, because they are good at self avoiding.
I’m sorry this guy pulled the rug out like that, I know what an insult that is to your heart and soul. It’s like everything changed at the snap of a finger and it’s completely unbalancing to your soul. I got ambushed dumped a few years back in a public place and it rocked me. I felt humiliated, sad, pissed off, tricked, you name it! I had feelings for this man, but wasn’t wholly happy with him and it STILL rocked me, so I can only imagine the depth of this bottom drop out you felt. It was exactly six months dating too. I felt thrown away like garbage. I had to go complete NC afterward, not even see him around by totally avoiding anywhere he might be. I blocked his phone and email to keep myself from the anxiety of waiting for him to call ( don’t know if he even tried, I doubt it though ). A year later I ran into him and he acted like we were long lost friends. I brushed him off and felt a tiny bit of self satisfaction that I finally got some choice in the matter. My choice was not to pretend we were friends. It took time sweetie. In hindsight, it was my lack of having any control over it, no talk, no empathy, no concern for me, that made me feel like a car over a cliff. It hurt. It was cruel in a way, but in time it made me see how disconnected and cold he was. It would of never worked out. This guy who did this to you had some disconnect from his own self to pull a huge u turn like that. I know it’s hard to see when we hurt, but you and I are better off without these cold hearted men. We have all kinds of life around us still, life we can appreciate and find joy in.
Selkie,
Thank you so much for this post. I can relate too. It’s unspeakably cruel and cold to cut the relationship like you, Say Something, and I had with those men. It takes time. I get better slowly with every month. It will get better. Hugs to all.
Say Something,
Of course you are feeling all these feelings. Embarrassed, humiliated, wrong, deceived, stupid, immature, etc etc. I know these feelings and I still have glimpses of them. It’s great you are writing out these feelings here in a safe, anonymous environment. It helps you to see it from another angle, on the Internet, and see other people’s perspectives. It’s normal to have all these feelings. You have to go through all the pain. It sucks, I know. But at the same time it is cleansing and renewing even though you don’t feel like it right now or in the last months. Yes, we had a shelf life. Yes, we thought they were the ONE but they weren’t and they didn’t think we were for them. Perhaps from the beginning. We were nice to pass the time with until someone “better” came along. Some people do that. I have to admit I hurt people myself before. I didn’t promise them or led them on though. Didn’t make any plans with them. Didn’t tell them I loved them. Didn’t act like I saw potential in them. But they did fall in love with me and saw a potential with me. But I didn’t. I know I hurt them, but at least I didn’t build up anything to where those guys thought I was building a path to the future with them. The ex who brought me here was the worst pain in my life so far, and I think, sadly, all of us, have to go through at least one devastation like this to be reborn. To start a new and better life. To learn about ourselves. I know my life before was a different life. I have a new life now. I like it. But I have been down in the last couple weeks and if this continues I might seek help. I am feeling I am burned out even to feel shame or sadness nor disappointment. I feel kind of numb. It’s not giving up. It’s indifference. Like I said before I am stuck in my career change. I know I need to change but don’t know where to go. Yet I know I can’t go on with the same type of career I have had in the last 15 years. Because of the tremendous changes happening in my internal life in the last 1,5 years, everything inside me, naturally, turned upside down numerous time and I feel like I am a new person spiritually and otherwise, yet I am in the same occupation which I don’t enjoy and the new me feels it more sharply than ever. Perhaps some of you can relate to when you have had a quite a shift in your internal life you find yourself in your current situation and think and are shocked, “What I am doing here?” That’s kind of where I am. Personally, like I wrote in other couple posts, I feel burned out too. The most recent experience with the half-date, who disappeared absolutely unexpectedly, was tiring and unpleasant but I got over that fast. I deleted several contacts from my phone this week because I give up contacting people to catch up (I contacted 1-2 times a year and they live close by). Tired of initiating, making the efforts. The long-distance guy I have known for 7 years, told me he loves me and always will and then ignore my e-mail where I want to reconnect with him on a friendly basis, sharing things. Other couple people tell me energetically they want to catch me up with me so bad and then ignore the contact and invitation to go out. It has always been like that. And I am not a nag, I don’t chase people. I like reconnecting, staying in touch, listening, being friends. Everyone is very busy. Sorry for rambling. I am glad for those mini-“rejections,” so to speak, because I choose to now nurture my family only: my daughter and me, our relationship, dedicate myself to my physical and emotional well being, have a guts to change my professional path. I feel completely drained from trying to do anything with other people and trying to figure them out. Today particularly I feel I am completely done and tired of it all. I think some of you can relate. I understand now what it means to lead a sheltered life. You are just tired of trying eventually. On another and much positive note, I will be looking out to take care of my family and find people / organizations I can help.
Selkie and Sofia,
Thank you both for your comments. When I received TFT “the final text,” a month after TLW (the last weekend, I was having lunch with a friend outside at a restaurant. I cried. She cried with me. And then I.continued.to.cry. for.two.hours. in.public.at.at.a.restaurant. in.front.of.people. That was SO not me. But it WAS me.
And yes, we all can disappoint people, and BE disappointed, but doing it on purpose- passive-aggressively, covertly, or with hidden agenda is different. I have opted out before as well, but I did not lead the person on, promise and future fake, have lots of sex, say I miss you, and all that goes with pretending to actually like someone. There is a HUGE difference and it seems like we are all aware of that.
Mini-rejections don’t phase me much. They’re little normal “dents” but not life altering events.
I can’t say I feel numb. I feel unsettled. I want to fast forward to forgetting him. I want to have hope that he won’t matter to me anymore. And I am glad I chose to ignore the (fake) friendship card. We were never “friends” to begin with, and I don’t believe we could be “friends” ever. What would there be to value? I don’t know that I will EVER get to that level of acceptance where I can hope he finds love and happiness. Because selfishly, I wanted it to be with me. I have no desire to wish him a wonderful life without me. I just want to forget and accept that he is gone, does not care about me, and thus we will never have a life together. Yep I completely KNOW this but I have to get “ok” with it and not feel the loss.
I have also found that there are less and less people that I want to be around. Be real. Be reliable. Say what you mean. Mean what you say.
Sofia, your long distance guy… he loves you from afar, electronically, yes? If you ever questioned it, you’d probably be told what “love” is. People say what they want and mean something else. Words.Actions. So he loves you at HIS level. You’re WAY ABOVE THAT! YOU LIVE AT AN AUTHENTIC, MEANINGFUL, CARING LEVEL. And I believe that most people don’t.
Thank you both for your understanding. It feels real. Even electronically. No CLICKS allowed! I’m pleased that after reading these posts for months now, that I’ve finally decided to interact.
Hi Sofia,
I can relate to your post on the career change. I love what I do but I live day to day with the fear of losing my job and livelihood. I realized that I can’t continue to live like this and that I must work towards ensuring my financial stability. I am planning for a major career change within the next 5 years, assuming that my job isn’t eliminated during that time-frame. I have to transition slowly because I depend solely on my job and I have to be responsible. Find something you love that is also aligned with your values and the new you. It may be scary, but it’s worth trying.
As for the flaky acquaintance, I finally accept them for they are. I don’t put any weight on what they say. If they come through on a promise, fine, if not, it’s also fine. I try to remember that some people mean well, but they get busy with life and family, so I don’t hold it against them. I just cherish the people that value me enough to make time for me.
I hope you feel better today, it’s one day at a time.
Selkie,
What a great example how one’s work on oneself can make one progress so far. I can relate partially to what you are saying. I am not there yet as I am just now learning to find peace and happiness by myself without waiting to become happy when a right guy shows up. My hope is that my consistent work on myself will get me where you are right now. I believe I am on the right path even though I have few dark days here and there, which is ok too.
My recent short dating story revealed to me quite a few interesting things about myself: I won’t tolerate BS anymore, being someone’s option, and waiting for someone to like me/appreciate me. Also, although it was upsetting I am back to normal almost instantly. Because he didn’t choose me, it doesn’t reflect on my worth, sexuality, likeability. These are great changes to observe and when I fall I pick myself up and keep moving forward. Still ways to go but I am doing so much better and so drastically different from my old ways. The important thing for me now is to change a job or rather a career for that matter. That’s where the focus is and I am grateful I can focus on this matter finally and build my new life.
selkie this is inspirational!!
Great job for seeing him for who he is and saying no thanks! You did the best you could, that’s all you can do, all any of us can do.
Shocking indeed. I had to look up the word hoo hoo… Also, I know I’m not supposed to laugh (too much), but after looking up the word I was then wondering how did you know it was his wife’s??
Ah, but you explain it later… 🙂 V.
I bet you were surprised when you discovered what a hoo hoo is! 🙂
Veracity and V.,
Thanks Gals. I have to laugh too…now that my jaw isn’t hitting my knees.
Selkie
You couldn’t possibly have know what this guy was about when you met him so don’t beat yourself up. Your not prescient and you can’t read minds. Two super powers we wish we all had.
Having sex with a guy is not wrong so don’t beat yourself up about that either. It wasn’t gross when you first did it, right?
He unfolded and you didn’t like what you saw, so you left. That’s all you have to do. It’s his loss not yours, in fact it was a lucky escape so count your blessings.
Online is like real life, how many guys do you walk past and never see let alone go out with them. 99% or more at least?
If you really want to meet someone you can’t sit at home waiting for them to beat a path to your door. It will never happen.
Chalk it up to experience and move on.
Hi Pauline. No, it wasn’t gross. He was very very nice to me all the time. Which is why the pics of his ex wife was so shocking. He didn’t do anything TO me really, he just isn’t who I thought he was and who he tried really hard to make himself look like. He was very attentive, always available for me ( too much ), cooked for me, bought me things, rubbed my feet every time I sat down, went out of his way to do nice things for me. Too good to be true? perhaps. I feel he has secrets and is probably hung up on his ex wife. I get the feeling he is into weird things sexually and may have been promiscuous. He never disappeared or went missing in the two months, but it’s the feeling I get from the puzzle pieces. A big part of me knows there was no way for me to know until he unfolded and I did good by opting out. A small part of me wants to be wrong about him and blame myself for ‘over reacting’ so that I can go back to thinking he’s a great guy. That is what I beat myself up about this time around, doubting my own gut and attempting ( in thought only) to creep into denial so I can go back to not knowing what I now know and being treated like a queen again. If that makes sense?
Selkie
What you say makes perfect sense – if you can hit the reset button and truly forget what you saw.
He didn’t do anything TO you except he forgot to remove some old porn pics of his ex wife and you inadvertently saw them. I can’t blame you for being grossed out, any woman would under the circumstances. I’d be out the door and wouldn’t be going back after that. Bad mental picture of what he is doing dribbling over the pics when no one is around.
Go with your gut feeling, it is always right and if you feel he has secrets he probably has. You just don’t know what they are – yet!
He sounds like the perfect guy, feet rubbing, cooking meals, being attentive and buying you things. He sounds rather too good to be true unfortunately and this seems to be what you are picking up on. That old saying ‘if it seems too good to be true, it probably is’.
I’ve met guys like this before and while it’s very flattering to be treated like a queen it’s not sustainable for the long term and you may find that the controlling and jealous side will surface at some point.
There is always something with these guys who try to sweep you off your feet and try to bulldoze you into a relationship, so much so that you can hardly have 5 minutes free time for yourself let alone family, work or friends.
Not saying this guy is doing this but it seems to have the hallmarks of what he desperately wants without checking in with what you want of where you are at, it’s all about him and his needs.
Don’t try to second guess yourself and rationalise, it will only lead to trouble done the track.
Selkie,
You can’t unring the bell.
Chair breaker.
Deal breaker.
Your decision was the right one!
Pauline and Say Something,
I know this in my head, but it’s good reinforcement to hear it from others. I still don’t feel heartbroken or anything like that, I think because my emotional investment was normal for only two months, but everything feels quiet around me again. It just seems like a loud kind of quiet right now after the whirlwind.
Thank you 🙂
Selkie,
all you said screams one thing for me, ‘submissive male’. I did not even know they existed before I met the narcissistic guy who has brought me here. But all the details you mention seem to fit the picture, treating you like a queen, the little gestures, rubbing feet, the handcuffs, the feeling you have that he has secrets, even the neediness… At the very least he is into BDSM. Nothing wrong with it if one is being upfront about it and if it is your cup of tea. Otherwise, recipe for disaster.
Of course I may be wrong, just a gut reaction to your posts. Hugs
The submissive male…your description fits an ex “friend” to a T (minus the handcuffs, but who knows)!! Mind you he didn’t do these things with me, he did them with his dates. I went NC about 6 months ago because of years of shady behavior towards me. Once I really looked at his MO, he had the calling card of a sociopath.
Guilt and shame…My therapist and I talked again about my blame-absorbing regarding my sexual assault. (For those who don’t know, during the sexual part of the assault, I thought, “This is the best I can do–users and rapists?”):She said that I’m judging myself for calling myself insane for something I thought during a horrific experience. She suggested I show compassion for myself who was trying to survive!
So that’s what I’m trying to do. I’m trying to view myself through a nonjudgmental lense. It’s hard because I often don’t realize how I’m being so self-critical, even to the point of labeling myself as “crazy” for what I thought when I was being physically and sexually attacked! Wow! My eyes are really opening!
Rosie,
You know that “humor”, even when it may seem inappropriate, is a defense/ survival mechanism. I am sorry for what happened to you. Who knows what other people think to make it through traumatic events. You are just being honest and dealing with it.
@why, wow some people are jerks! That guy sounds like a controlling moron. Nice work blocking him.
And @colly, I think that every time I read your posts.. So, so similar! it sounds from the outside that your ex is going for the third scenario you laid out: like he’s unhappy that you’re getting away and not playing his game anymore, so he’s trying to get a rise out of you by pretending he’s firing up a similar situation with this new employee. What an idiot! Again, would you ever do something like this to someone? Especially someone whose spirit you just crushed? No! He is such a prick its hard to read about. You don’t need him!
As for my ex, I dont know what his deal is and what my problem is. He’s clearly bad news. The fact that he’s done all of this is clear enough of his terrible character. Why do I even still think about him?? The fact that he enjoys being in control and trying to shame everyone else who he deems unworthy (ie. not the one he’s chosen) is laughable.
I wish I could tell him off, but instead I will stay no contact. Why do I even feel I want to contact him anyways?? It’s like an old bad habit. I won’t, but it’s frustrating it’s even an urge.!!
Thanks for your responses and support. Happy Easter everyone!
@Leanne,
I still think about him all the time, but I’m pretty sure it’s just a nasty habit and a tool to keep me out of myself. Maybe you feel like this a bit too?
I think my exMOMs game is very twisted, it’s like he mails me telling me all about what my employee has or hasn’t done, trying to give me tips on how to manage her, saying he wants her to do great – like he’s trying to help me. However I remember him being this way towards me – trying to coach me all the time – before anything got anyway. I used to think he was a real tit doing this – I’m 9 yrs his senior and a lot more senior in the company. Anyway when I realised he was a perfect magnet to my dysfunction I soon forgot about this and was hooked. I remember though he used to have a bit of a harem of women who’s careers he was trying to improve. It’s very creepy, and I think he is a narcissistic tit, and I wish he would piss off and mind his own business. Yuk…but hey sometimes I catch myself dreaming about the person he isn’t! Craziness.
Happy Easter to you too.
YEP grooming! This man is very dangerous colly you and leanne do have alot in common – get distance from this man and take it seriously please.
Wiser mentioned self-awareness and as if on a cue, exEUM reappeared and informed me that his therapist (he recently enrolled into therapy as I understood) “understands” why he acted the way he acted with me. I kind of lost my cool at this point and showed a bit of interest in this outrageous statement. “Oh, and does he understand and support when you told me you loved me and how you see us living together and how you undressed me AND THEN went back to your gf and told her exactly the same things and did this for years?”. Surprisingly, “yes, he does. He is very understanding”. So a word of caution about men being in therapy as a sign of their self-awareness. Some just use it to feel good about how they behaved in the past. I hope that his therapist understands but someday will tell him that understanding and thinking their behavior is okay is not the same thing. But maybe they truly believe it is okay to lead two women on. I don’t know. That is no longer my problem.
I personally have no understanding for this. As Wiser says, I’d expect a person getting into such a messy set up to be aware that they need to follow up on their words. But my EXPECTING things is not right. To assume is not right (for me personally). Assuming led me to the pattern of when we’d have dinner (often he’d be the cook), have sex and then he’ll tell me to go home (at 2-3-4am) because I could not stay because he had a gf (they did not live together). And I thought it was okay, since I was the non-primary partner (only temporarily! now he was confused, but he’s gonna get his sh!t together and will fix it, – he’d say) then this is what I could get. So I’d stay on a bus stop for a long time, in freezing cold. Short skirt and stockings.
And yesterday I remembered all those nights. And if I am ashamed of anything it’s also this. This man, who could do that, was The Prize? What was I thinking? Also, did he really think that my not sleeping over was making it less a cheat? And sex and emotional affair was not cheating? It makes me so nauseous now. I was working so hard to stay in denial and not to see any of it. And yesterday I thought, you must be really just a fraction of a man if you think that this acceptable, if you think this is “understandable”. I feel ashamed I betrayed this little girl inside myself for someone who was not even half a man.
I did not tell him anyone of this of course. But it inspired me to work on myself more. Reminded me to be more self-aware and never ever ever take words over actions. If someone says they’re in therapy and then act like a totally unaware AC, then this is my cue to put a high wall between myself and this person. Actions vs words as per Natalie’s NO BS rules.
Why, just being in therapy means nothing if a) the therapist is an idiot (and some are) and b) the client isn’t willing to do the hard work to bring dysfunctional and destructive patterns of thought and behavior into awareness. This is a painful process, designed to take the ego apart. If therapy is going along swimmingly, it probably isn’t working. And you’re right, a good way to judge this is if a person’s words are matching actions. Truly self-aware people are changed by their insights and they act accordingly.
Oh, and remember you only have your EUM’s word for what his therapist says and thinks. Is he likely to lie just to make himself look good? Who knows what’s really going on. And it doesn’t matter! Let him have his “therapy.” You just stick to your guns as to what you know is right – and leading multiple women on is definitely not right.
Wiser, yes, I totally agree. Your words reminded me that it wouldn’t be the first time he was untrue (he calls them “half truth”) about something. So glad it’s no longer my headache. Really, the first thought I had after that. BR really cleans your palate like that 🙂
@Why,
Really irritating the way these guys just pop up again to share their “good news”. A therapist can understand intellectually without condoning, it is not their role to be judgemental. “Yes I understand why you treated Why and your gf like this, (it’s because you’re an AC).” We can take away what we like from therapy and I think you’re right to think your exEUM thinks he’s got himself a free pass. Grrrr, makes me angry and cuts so close for me because of my exMOM that keeps popping up with such news. I can’t properly block mine because of work, can you though?
Shame is so corrosive Why, I know from all the bucket loads I carry about what I’ve done to myself and others. All you did was try to be loved, that’s human Why.
Have a good restful day today
Thanks, Colly. Yes, I am lucky in a way that the treatment I’ve described in previous posts (talking only with other people in the room or emails). Thankfully a slip like the above haven’t happened in a long time (in large, thanks to BR and all the unbelievable support that comes from everyone here, keeping each other sane) and I was able to catch myself biting the bait right when it happened. I am lucky in a way that I can define my work hours and the people I engage with. It never has to be just him. And the longer I stay in NC, the easier it gets. I’d say, it’s gotten pretty easy now. I am pretty sure he also got some other sources of ego strokes and I am now more of a threat or disappointment to him so he’s rarely trying to get in there with me. Plus, Nat’s low BS diet made me really categorical (in a good sense): I call it when I see it.
Stay strong, Colly. You can do it. You can overcome this. Stay NC.
Why, further to most of what others have pointed out, your ex also contacted you to tell you that you were just not understanding enough and what he did was understandable and therefore acceptable. I believe the therapists might have said something like this, after all forensic psychologists also want to understand serial kollers but they certainly don’t condone what they did. Also, were you in NC with him? If yes, then this is also a way of getting a reaction out of you by p*****g you off. If you werent in NC, why not??? In any case, his personal or spiritual growth are none of your concerns or responsibility, so don’t react. Any reaction makes him happy, remember that next time you’re tempted to hit the keyboard.
Mephista, thanks for the tough love. You’re absolutely right – his growth (or stagnation) is none of my business. I am finally learning to foster my own growth. I fail and make mistakes but it’s so worth it.
Hello Claimers,
I have been away for a while but Im back .. Its refreshing to see that Nat is still giving us the much needed wisdom. I have to say that over the last 2years a lot of events have triggered the journey to self love, compassion and being aware of boundaries. When I look back I can admit that I had those rose tinted shades on from watching too many Rom-Coms and expected my life to play out as such but it didnt and I guess the more my adult and dating life didnt quite fit the mould the more I started to question a lot of things including my sexuality ( Yep) this only lead me to seeking for solace and validation through sex and trying to make dead end relationships work. Fortunately for me the journey to self healing started when a EUM/In transition now divorced man broke my heart. I honestly look back and thank Him cos his act lead me to seek help.After a rather tumultuous relationship and turning 30 hit me I decided I need to make better choices. I started to embrace self love and forgiveness more (baggage claim and a relationship coach as well helped me a great deal). I am now making a second major change I am moving to a different state for a new beginning. I am scared sh**tless but I would like to start over particularly after being victim to Office bullying which led me to lose my job 2 months ago another blow to my healing self confidence.
If you have managed to get this far ( Kudos n ty)my heart just feels a bit heavy today and writing all of this helped me to realize I have come a long way and I know I will continue to progress. Thanks Nat !!!!!
Hi NcinCanada,
Good luck with your new life. Fear is normal but don’t let it stop you from enjoying this new phase of your life. As President Franklin D. Roosvelt(FDR)said before “the only thing to fear is fear itself.”
Thank You… I mean at some point I got to take my Power back and start living AGAIN.. So what if I fall down, Ill get up again.
I remember my mom, repeatedly, telling me to “stop showing off.” Ackk, reading your post reminded me of the times she….
Yep, she shamed me, and I was just enjoying my accomplishment…probably got an A…. I deserved to feel proud of myself for….
Mimi,
In third grade our teacher handed out chocolate candy kisses to students when they received 100% on a paper. My mother sent the teacher a letter disagreeing with this practice. I guess my mother believed that all motivation in school should be internal. Result: I was the only one NOT ALLOWED to receive the candy reward for doing well. Why do I still remember this story?
Because it struck you as a mean, petty and unnecessary act by your mother even when you were so young. You did so well getting 100% on your paper and your mother took that away, all over a small piece of chocolate no less.
You didn’t have any food allergies to anything at that age that you might not remember. Or any dental issues?
Sorry forgot to add, do you know if your mother was concerned about the levels of sugar and junk food in young children’s diets? It concerns me when I see young kids eating so much packaged crap and McDonald’s instead of much healthier options.
Thanks Pauline,
I think it has more to do with control. And being right, for whatever her reasons were. Intinsic motivation. We could drink look-aid, not soda. (hello sugar) At the end of first grade she made me cut off all my long hair before I began swimming lessons. I hated it and cried and have never had short hair like that again. She told me my hair would clog the pool drain. I was a kid and believed her. But then I got to swimming lessons and all the other girls had long hair so I knew she lied. She finally admitted she was sick of brushing and detangling my hair so she made up the story.
Every other year I could have a friend birthday party. But no gifts. That’s not what having a birthday party I’d for. (and yes deep down, there IS a sensible part of that) But I always felt I missed out. One year when I was 11 or 12 my father’s work had a big holiday party and all the kids received a gift. I got a tabletop chalboard easel. But I was not allowed to keep it and she donated it to charity because I didn’t need it. I remember thinking it was so cool and I wanted to keep it. I feel like instead of learning about charity and giving, I learned that I was selfish. It was forced, not a choice. So even while SHE thought her intentions were well meaning, they were forced control. When I was 15 and our dog bit me in the face, it must’ve been my fault. I received no medical attention, and still have a scar inside my lip. I could go on, as many of us could. I was never abused or neglected in the traditional sense. I was over-controlled and instructed to “get over” things, go to my room if I was going to cry, and that when others treated me badly, I should just “kill them with kindness”. I can also remember being told by my patents that to me, “nothing is ever enough. You’re never satisfied.” I don’t remember what it is I thought I wanted and didnt have back then, but it must’ve been a recurring theme, because it’s stuck with me: stop being selfish, don’t expect too much, and smile when people hurt you. Don’t let them know. You’re fine.
Spell-check phone troubles!
Intrinsic, koolaid, chalkboard
You get the picture!
One thing I do know is that you will never know what moves people in their minds.
Sometimes it’s a case of ‘monkey see, monkey do’ and maybe this was the way your mother was treated as a child or maybe she developed her own ideas of what was best for you.
Controlling, yes I understand that. I’m a mother of a daughter and I did what I thought was best for her when she was growing up. She has PKU, a metabolic disorder, and had to be kept on a very strict diet. Long story short, I had to be tough at times about what went into her mouth but she’s got all her faculties in one piece and got a degree from university, something that doesn’t happen very often with PKU kids. It wasn’t an easy road for either of us but worth it in the end.
While I can’t understand what your mother was thinking or why she did those things, no medical treatment for a dog bite was bad and no excuse for that in my opinion.
I don’t know if you have any kids but I’m sure you will put in a lot more thought to their upbringing than your (and my) rather enlightened parents did. We have so much more information now and much more resources than they ever did.
You can’t keep a good girl down Say Something. Xo
That’s un-enlightened parents.
Pauline,
It’s good to hear that your daughter has done so well!
I think sometimes I’ve tried to be the opposite, and have been overall much more liberal with my own kids. Then sometimes I worry that I’ve been too lazy. At times (post divorce) they’ve attempted to run the show. They’re now teenage-20’s and are decent, responsible people (usually ha). Beyond controlling, my mother really does not show much emotion. Sometimes anger/frustration. When my father died, years ago, I didn’t see her cry. When her mother died recently I didn’t see her cry. She did not appear sad. I’m SURE I talked about my mother’s lack of emotions with BGE. And in the end, he was able to dismiss me and show no emotion either. I believe I feel things deeply, and THOUGHT he did too, (he’d spoken of the “work” he’d done on himself, being mindful, blah blah). So imagine my horror when BGE “morphed into” unavailable dismissive man with no emotional connection to me. I know some people cannot understand this concept. He truly, all of a sudden, displayed the complete opposite personality of the guy I knew. Unlike my mother, he’d faked his emotional availability. Like it never even happened. Like I never even mattered.
Say Something,
Wow. I am very sorry for all of these things that happened to you when you were growing up. I can imagine what it might have done to your self-esteem. I see where your mother was coming from on some level, but it was definite overboard and stripping away a girl’s enjoyment of childhood, growing up, receiving, and being loved. She must have had a lot of issues with being unloved, controlled, lacking affection when growing up and dominated by control, rigidity, and the “rightness” environment. Who brought her up must have had similar issues and it goes on and on and continues generations after generations until one person in a chain is not catching him/herself, becoming self-aware, changing oneself as a person and a parent. I have thought about your post a lot and reflected as a parent.I am trying to do all the opposite and much better than what my parents and especially my mother did (my dad was absent , on and off reappearing pretty much and an alcoholic), but I still catch myself at being emotionally unavailable at times by not being fully present 100% of the time and not being a very good listener. I work on my weaknesses every day just like we should in any long-term committed relationship. I am very careful at how everything I do affects my growing up girl’s self-esteem and self-worth. I praise her, constructively give advice, and make sure she feels she is lovable and important and that my actions prove my words. I am not perfect, but the good thing I stop regularly and thinking what I am doing, how it is affecting this person, and as a mother what influence I am having on her. I am responsible for forming her personality on many levels and I am very careful of what I am doing and not doing every day. Learning on my mistakes, learning myself, and learning how to be a better mother so that I can do my best and what I can do to raise a confident woman. Your post resonates and reminded me how much what we do as parents affect our children. Thank you for sharing your story.
I’m feeling guilty that I’ve made it seem like I had a torturous childhood. I did not. Overall things were good. I guess I’m remembering and sharing the hurtful parts that I don’t usually talk about. (The over-controlling and lack of emotional connection parts)
Maybe this is (partially) why I long for emotional connection with a partner. But is it WRONG to want that? I don’t want someone to save me or to parent me. I want someone who can and will share, listen, care. I feel like I NEED that. I feel selfish for wanting/ needing it. And I feel a tremendous loss from finally trusting that someone that I fell in love with actually cared, only to find out that, in the end, he was EU and completely rejected me. I am re-reading Mr. Unavailable, and thinking of Sofia’s words that “we are not The One” and it’s harsh. It feels shameful because it feels like “the best me is not enough”.
I ignored the “don’t send” unsent letter advice when I made my final contact back in September. No regrets. I needed to express myself to him and be honest, because that was the best I could do. I had to make sure I was clear with what I thought, felt, believed and wanted. I needed to clarify what “I miss you” and “I care about you” mean to me. Clearly I now think that to him those things mean “eh” so I explained what “I care about you” and “I miss you” mean TO ME.
I indicated that TO ME, if he meant those things, he would DO something, not just e-mail nice, empty words. “… It means that it hurts to be apart from you and makes me sad that we aren’t together to share the good, the bad, the daily grind, random thoughts, laughter, the future… Not just hope you’re doing well. Not just maybe we’ll run into each other some day. Not just I remember some good things about you. For me, it’s the ‘I would do whatever it takes because you mean the world to me’ kind of thing. That’s how I care. You don’t care about me like that.”
He’d tried to pull the reset/ friendship BS stuff telling me to get in touch when my frame of mind changed. I concluded by stating that if he ever missed me in the same way that I missed him (which was a really detailed, from the heart passage), then he would like to hear from him.
Anyhow, that’s an excerpt from what I call my manifestivus. It was the most painful, emotional, heart-wrenching, soul-bearing, descriptive writing I have ever done. And it was L O N G. And it will forever go unanswered.
Say Something
You shouldn’t feel any shame about the best you not being good enough. Trying to cope with EU people is not something than anyone is easily able to do and you’re not some sort of higher power that is capable of changing them. They have to do this themselves if they want to.
The more you try to explain these alien (to them) concepts of love, compassion and being open and vulnerable the more they will shrink back into where ever they go. I feel rather sorry for EU’S, they’re locked away from themselves and others who do care for them, but, we have to look after and care for ourselves first and that means letting go. Your mother is EU and if you can find a little compassion and realise that she’s not someone that you will ever be able to change, you might be able to come to terms with the things she has done.
The same with that EU man. He has no comprehension of what you were trying to tell him. His comment to everything you tried to explain about you and how you feel and his answer to get in touch with him when your ‘frame of mind’ changed says it all.
The best you is still there. The only thing you did wrong was trying to change the un-changeable and please the un-pleasable.
I tried to change the AC I was involved with into what I thought he should be to make him a ‘better man’, for me that is. All that did, I understand now, was stamp all over his own boundaries of how he saw himself and what he did which he thought was good and was offensive on my part. Needless to say it didn’t work and he got worse. I finally did what I should have done years ago and that was to stop talking and leave him to his own devices and get out. I don’t know why I thought I could change him and why I kept trying, it was never going to happen but it took me the best part of 5 years to work out. That’s relationship insanity.
Give it up and move on, you have wonderful kids and UE man has gone from your life never to return and that your blessings for that.
Thanks Pauline,
I HAVE accepted that my mother is EU. It took quite some time, but I’ve known it and dealt with it.
As far as BGE goes, I didn’t realize he was EU, as he presented himself differently. It’s hard because I DON’T KNOW who or what he really is. In the end he gave me “logical reasons” for why “the relationship isn’t sustainable” that seemed like easy to address. He NEVER mentioned lack of feelings, incompatibility, or unhappiness and specifically said it was NOT emotional so I didn’t understand. I didn’t want to change him, but I worried that he had misunderstood me possibly. I wanted an honest discussion and solution, because from my perspective, we had a relationship worth keeping. How could I know any differently if didn’t say something? He referenced, in the aftermath, that we were different or something, (in our thinking) so I just wanted to explain myself. Had I not been clear that I was invested, that I wasn’t leaving, that I cared deeply? I put it out there one last time before NC, as to not have to ever question that I gave up or was unclear about my depth of caring. In the end with him, I realized I had offered the best I could, I had treated him well, I had been honest, and willing to do whatever was necessary. I had believed a man who told me that he didn’t have a mean bone in his body, and that he’d never quit anything in his life. He quit me.
Sorry Say Something, but you were definitely abused and quite badly, too. Being bitten by a dog and not seeking medical help?? At least tetanus shot should have been considered. Also, she had no right to give away YOUR present. And btw, how many presents of her own has she given away? I thought so.
I’m proud of a recent accomplishment: I listened to myself, and made a big move on something.
It was scary, but I decided to put my Faith in me rather than someone else. And, I decided I could live
with the consequences.
I’ll be there for me if things go, as Natalie says, “tits up,” hehehehe.
Well done that is great!
Sofia/SaySomething
It’s so confusing, right? I fnd that I think I’m okay as the blog says. Worked for a few years on gettng over depression and anxiety, boosting self esteem despite being bullied at work. Had two female friends who told me basically that they didn’t like me as a person- I didn’t get upset: I had boundaries, I was okay, I was stronger than that. Felt I’d come far and v positive.
Met a guy and soon I was also having great sex with a fun man – life was good. But whoops- turns out to be married. But I knew I was worth more thsn that I told myself I can walk away anytime. Fast forward two months and he’s persuaded me he cares and accuses me of being guarded and sceptical. Two more montgs and transpired he’d been sleeping with somene else- for years. My colleague. And tells me all about it. Then when I try to walk away says “it was only ever meant to be casual”. barely tried to convince me I meant anything to him. I felt totally disposable.
I see now where I should have had boundaries and walked away: but how am I not over it? 6 mths later and 2mths NC and I’m confused as to how I think I am okay, or thought I was strong and in control in general in life
BUT
If I was those things surely I’d be feeling better than I do?
I feel myself now more sensitive to everything: to mey cliquey unfriendly colleagues, at work I’m always told how I can do better, improve. Not what I’ve achieved. I am less willing to engage and just generally feeling lonely, tired of all the effort I’d make with friends and work, feeling like no one wants to make an effort with me and now I need to look for a new job and am engulfed in feel vs of self doubt and insecurity. Had met a nice chap- not romantic but v close- who no longer replies to my friendly emails. I tried a week without proactively suggesting social things and sadly… had no invitations. They started again but I felt maybe they were pity invites (they aren’t, but I still fear they are). I make a point of letting colleagues know that I don’t need to beg for an invitation from them- I know they talk about me behind my back. And how this guy treated me.
Msybe I never really was ok? Maybe I ought to resign myself to the fact that lovers, friends, colleagues, family- no one wants to be with me or my company and they never really ever did. Maybe I just didn’t ever see it until now? Maybe MM who was so awful was my wake up call?
I may think I’m an interesting funny, friendly pretty, generous person. I’ve been told I was before. But msybe those people who said that no longer feel that way.
ICan’tBelieveIFoundThis,
I am experiencing the same feelings. Tired of making the efforts. Even very close people seem to have become distant. Or rather, I am not trying anymore and now the contact has almost disappeared. I think when people get older everyone just gets tired of trying and is more focused on their lives, whether single or attached. Gone are the friendships and socialization in the sense of how much time is allotted for the interactions. My life is busy, but I still feel I need and want time for interaction with others. I too feel isolated and get depleted from making the efforts to reconnect with someone, to ask people out, do things together. They politely respond, yes, sure, and never follow up. I don’t even take it personally anymore. I just give up. Yes, we need other people in our lives, but we need to learn to be self-sufficient in our own lives. To not need anyone and be ok by ourselves. Easy to say, I know. People just move in and out each other’s lives easily I guess, or it seems so. In the end result you always have to be prepared to face yourself and your own company. I am not investing anymore of my time into someone’s who is indifferent to me. I understand that you feel rejected, not interesting, not funny, not smart enough, etc. These are just the feelings, not the facts. I feel it’s time to grow a shell and live a sheltered, “safe” live. Sorry if I sound cynical. Just tired like you are.
Sofia,
I’m in a similar place in some respects and I’m starting to wonder if it has to do with grief and loss. That when we start to see and accept people for who they really are we experience a loss. Loss that they aren’t who we wanted/needed them to be. It leaves a hole. Or perhaps a more accurate way to put it is that it reveals a hole. A hole we have been trying to fill with them.
I’ve stopped accepting poor behavior and the consequence has been that I have less people in my life. Do I feel rejected, yes! But the truth is I felt rejected all along, I just kept trying to shove that feeling down. And kept trying to justify their actions because, for whatever reason, I didn’t want to lose them. I didn’t want to feel that loss-that hole.
It’s very painful.
I am viewing this time as my time to grieve as well as time to get to know myself better. To fill that hole. I am the only one that can do that.
I’ve chosen to deal with it by nurturing myself and the relationships I chose to keep. The ones with people that show up and do their part, it’s a mutual relationship. We embrace and support healthy behaviors.
I think part of the process of healing and setting limits on people is going through what we are going through. It can be painful and feel isolating.
My belief is that as we get stronger and healthier we will recognize and attract healthier people. And just as important, set appropriate limits or stay away from those people who don’t pull their weight or will harm us.
Veracity,
I never really thought about it . . . That going through a grief and loss can bring one the realization about other people. But I do see the effects. We see them who they are and we understand that we “used” them to fill the holes in us. This is so true! My interactions have decreased in the last 1,5 year. I just started distancing myself since I noticed that my efforts were useless. It’s like being in a forest and calling out for someone and all your hear back is your own echo. I like your perspective that as we become healthier, distance ourselves from people who shouldn’t be in our lives, we will attract healthier people and nourish the relationships with them. And first of all as we are healing we nourish the relationships with us. I am blessed that I don’t have a void in me anymore because it’s filled with my Faith, which is yet still fairly new and I am growing it and nurturing and will be continue doing so throughout my life. No human can fill the void even ultimately yourself, but that’s another subject. Wise words, Veracity. I will ponder about you said today.
Hello Can’t Believe,
Office politics and romance can be brutal. You’re aware of that. You’re also aware that this d-bag is married. Maybe you didn’t know at first. But now you do. You didn’t say if you know married d-bag thru work. How is it that he knows and is also screwing your co-worker? It may be that since he felt the need to share information about HER with you, that he’s done the same vice versa. Only a complete a-hole d-bag would do that. And married makes him exponentially worse. Nothing good will EVER last between you and him. You know this. That’s why you’re here.
NC is good. I’ve been NC for 6.5 months and it’s still a painful journey. It hurts to feel like we’re disposable. We’re not. Treating someone like trash speaks volumes about character. Search out Natalie’s post about personality and character not being the same thing. A “nice guy” personality can be the cover/ mask for a selfish, mal-intentioned person.
Decide what’s important to you. What do you value in yourself and others? Spend time with people who are on the same page. Having a group of friends with diverse personalities is great, but you don’t want to be around people who talk behind your back (jealousy?).
It’s much easier to see the “holy crap” that someone else is experiencing rather than acknowledging and taking action in your own life. This weekend, my sister came into town. (I only know because my mother mentioned it) I haven’t seen her in months. She chose to not contact me. I’m not sure why. I’ve also lost contact with a long term friend. She did not like the fact that I couldn’t “get over” my hurt feelings and be the “old me”. I feel forever changed. Instead of being the good listener and constant pleasing, happy friend and sister, I reached out to them for support last year. So I add these losses to my shame and grief. If I just wasn’t so hurt by BGE, and I didn’t reach out, and I could just GET OVER IT AND BE NORMAL AND STOP LETTING HIS DECISION AFFECT ME, why then my friend and sister would want to be around me. Let me add that I repeatedly and genuinely thanked them for their time, patience, guidance, and understanding. It wasn’t enough. And this feeling adds to the cycle of “what is wrong with ME – I can’t depend on ANYONE but myself”.
Do what you need to do to feel better Can’t Believe, but stay NC and seek out supportive people.
ICan’tBelieveIFoundThis!
This is gonna be a statement based only on what you’ve written above and I have not met you in person so I might be wrong. My first thought is that you’re really clinging to what other people think of you and how they perceive you. In a way, you’re trying to control the others.
Why? Do you fear that if you stopped trying to control everything, then you’d be forgotten/neglected/hurt by others? As NML and many women wrote here before – other people’s behavior is largely their responsibility. You can only be genuine with the world and provide truthful information.
You say you thought you’re strong but in your message you sound scared and feeling vulnerable. There’s nothing wrong with either.
Is your thinking binary? Do you think you can only be either strong or vulnerable? Can you imagine yourself being both? Can you imagine yourself being stronger BECAUSE you’re vulnerable?
In my opinion, no one writes about the correlation of vulnerability and strength as Cheryl Strayed in her “Dear Sugar” does http://therumpus.net/2012/02/dear-sugar-the-rumpus-advice-column-96-the-dark-cocoon/
“Msybe I never really was ok? Maybe I ought to resign myself to the fact that lovers, friends, colleagues, family- no one wants to be with me or my company and they never really ever did. Maybe I just didn’t ever see it until now? Maybe MM who was so awful was my wake up call?”
These are probably your worst fears condensed in a few sentences. Suppose for a moment that they are true, what does that mean?
1) If you never were ok and you recognise it now, it can only mean that you are somehow recovering.
2) Lovers family etc. didn’t (ever) love you? They are not the right people for you, and this is a blessing. Do you want the ‘love’ of a person so slimy as your ex-MM? Does he even know what love is?
3) If you are seeing it now, then the problem is solved. It only takes a little bit to adjust to the new vision, then you’ll recognise decent people and stop making efforts – love and friendship don’t feel like a job.
4) ‘Resign’ is very close to surrender and let go in this case. Maybe if you let go of some false love or idealized image of family and lovers it wouldn’t be so bad.
Best, V.
Go to a doctor and get a complete hormone panel done. You have ben under so much stress that you need a complete check up of your endocrine system. So, if you have good health insurance at work I would do this before I moved on to another job. Sometimes a fresh start can bring optimism and learning, both fun things. It sound like you need more fun in your life. but please, the hormone panel is a simple saliva test and you can get bio-identical creams at a compounding pharmacy. Anything you can do to improve your health right now is very important.
Elgie R., there was no Reply button to your post about “not good enough” and dark days during the healing process.
Although I don’t analyze anymore why he did what he did, generally, how can you be so sure that it was not us but because they are not ready. Again, it doesn’t matter to me anymore, but I don’t think it’s so clear cut. I could be just not the One for him. It doesn’t mean anything is wrong with me or I am not good enough. Just not someone he sees as a life time partner (that’s what he told me). And I finally accept it.
But who knows, you could be right. Luckily I don’t expend my energy trying to figure that out. 1 year was plenty enough on figuring out his or anybody else’s behavior.
You are right about the healing process. Lots of upward, especially further down the road, but some dark and heavy days too, which feel like it’s the beginning again. It’s all normal and we have to be gentle to ourselves. I already recognize these patterns and tell myself to not beat up myself for being down again. Tomorrow is another day and there will be a good week and a good month. It’s all okay to experience a range of emotions, as long as we are not stuck during the healing process, meaning there is no healing. Thanks for your insight.
Hi, Sofia. My point about a man being ready was just to emphasize that a woman does not have to guess if a man wants commitment or twist herself into pretzels to get commitment, because a man who wants commitment is very forthcoming about it, in actions and words.
But just because he does not want a commitment with me, does not mean I am not good enough for him or that I am “less than”. It just means he does not want me, and that is not a judgement on my worth. Your post sounded like you cast yourself in a “not good enough” role. If I am strawberry ice cream, but you choose vanilla ice cream, that does not mean strawberry is a worthless flavor.
Elgie R, I must have worded myself incorrectly or had a sad tone that day, which influenced the meaning. I meant the same thing. Because he is not ready to commit with me, it doesn’t say anything about me. Exactly. It took me sometime to get there that his choices in life don’t define me. Or anyone’s choices should not affect me and my life. Thank you for clarifying.
Thanks Wiser, Oona and Elgie. Renting this place I see now was a mistake. It was only a few months from my accident and I was till in recovery, exhausted a lot of the time – no stamina. So knowing that I would even more tired after leaving my home, city and relationships, it seemed like a practical idea and we had a formal agreement, I pay decent rent etc. But she actually wasn’t ready to rent the place, never had and never would again. This was an old friend who I hadn’t really known for many years …..but I have been surprised by her degree of betrayal of our agreement which I carefully explored and which was very clearly articulated.
It really is only 7 months since I moved our of my own house and I am having to work with ex via online until the end of May. I need that final project money and I stay detached etc but it always upsets me when he writes because he always says something that reminds me of the fact that he never listened to anything I said and always showed disrespect. I sometimes wonder if I come any distance at all in terms of self awareness and real emotional autonomy. Right now I am back “in the pain.”
yea, the exs who never listen to anything we say make me absolutely crazy. They are crazy makers, they like to deny women even the modicum of reciprocity or respect and humiliating people makes them feel better about themselves. gag. Let them go bother others with this twisted behavior.
I’ve never thought of it that way, shano. I’ve wondered about it. That makes sense.
Espresso,
I think one of the reasons why you are still in pain is because you have not reached the acceptance stage of your relationship. If you know that he does not listen to you and is disrespectual then why are you suprised when this behavior is presented? Acceptance is freeing! When you accept that he is this way and that this doesn’t work for you then you won’t be affected by it when he does it. You can’t change him, but you can change your reaction.
That’s so true, Stephanie! I think it’s sometimes easy (at least for me it was…I say was, optimistically 😉 to fall in the trap of trying to figure out why they are doing it! Trying to get to the bottom of it. The why use to drive me crazy.
Far better to just see it as it is, and accept them as they are, and know it’s not your fault or your problem.
Thank you for all your comments.
SaySomething:
yes he was a colleague (now left), she a foreign colleague in another branch office (where he’d done a short term project) who’d fly over to meet him. He didn’t tell me until she was in a new relationship, but she wanted to come fly to see him, ie cheat on her partner with him, who was cheating on his wife with both her AND me. That was 4.5 mths after we’d started, and when it ended.
D- bag is right! He said he could not tell her about me (I.e. his way of getting me to end it, I reckon….) because he “owed her.” Ive written more about it 3 mths ago. Thanks to NML ive moved on (a bit…) guess he didn’t feel he owed me anything.
I can’t imagine how or why I cld have liked someone like that- I felt so duped! the “is this all I deserve?” line keeps going round my mind.
V.
Yes these are all my fears. But if they are true then I’m not sure I like myself anymore either. It’s not okay because I don’t think I like this new realisation, this new me.
Why :
you’re right, about the binary thinking. And controlling others perhaps… Never thought of that. Thank you. But being vulnerable to me = needy; no man or friends want needy (not that that makes a difference as Im single)
Just like you say we’re told not to show off when growng up, I was told also not to be needy or weak. I think in Britain we sort of grow up not to be weak and never to boast. I just feel that that attitude plus my critical parents who don’t show / demonstrate love very well arent a great combo for an “over sensitive” child. I’m 40 now and still feel vulnerable yet try to be stronger. And my parents and brother tell me I’m “over sensitive” / indecisive / weak / low self esteem every time I meet them.
MM pushed back on me saying I was emotionally guarded because of this (we both knew it suited him though). His other woman wanted more, was high maintenace, a drama queen, he said. But I saw myself he ran circles round her trying to keep her. He even told me he did after he knew he’d hurt me! I feel sick if I think about it, try to forget. Feel AWFUL for his poor wife, she sounded nice, he’d sent me photos of her.
yes maybe I trusted their judgments of me more than my own. I see that’s not good
But V.
your para 3- how do I change? Feels HUGE, not a small adjustment.
ICBIFT
I can totally relate, being a 40 year old Brit with parents who were (and still are) not demonstrative with affection (except for with the family dog). I was told over and over to never let anyone see they were bothering you…as well as not to show off. They did some very weird repressive stuff to us in the 70s and 80s! I do though see my daughter and nieces growing up and being individual and expressive and it makes me really hopeful that the generation after us will not be saddled with the same hang ups (except for being the internet generation that have chronic text/email/mms addiction).
Regarding being told to “not show off”….sometimes parents are just trying to teach us modesty, which is a good thing. I think it becomes light dimming when they will not allow you to ever shine, or will never acknowledge you or validate you in any way, or will take actions that invalidate you.
I think today’s children aren’t learning modesty, or how to lose, or that they may have to accept that someone might be better at some talent than they are. When I hear about teenagers gunning each other down over romantic breakups, it seems to me that kids aren’t learning that sometimes we lose in the game of love. They are not developing the strengths that let them move on when they lose.
Can’t Believe,
Sometimes the drama feels normal to them, right? Because that’s one of the theories of why I was ditched. He was used to chaos, and what I offered was real and stable and calming. (not to be confused with boring, as I was the more outgoing one.) in the end he also declared that I was “more social and relaxed”. So? Someone’s always taller, older, louder, faster… Anyhow, yours created a cluster and thrived on it. Maybe it makes them feel more important than they really are.
You will never be “ok” with him, you know. He’s a fraud. And he’s selfish. And just mean. And that really sucks. He sent you pictures of his wife? Try not to listen to anything he says. Listen to Natalie and the people here. It’s ok to have feelings and it’s ok to be guarded, especially when you NEED TO BE! Sending you some positive vibes!
Say Something- Thank you. Yes, “humor” helps. My sister is the same way as is our cousin from our mom’s side. Thus, we decided that we get it from her side. It’s like the more stress we’re under, the more jokes we crack. Now that you mention it, I was cracking all kinds of jokes when the police came. Of course, I was also in a state of shock…My sister calls our humor our “weird strength”. I like it! 🙂
Anyway, thank you for your supportive reply. 🙂
Veracity- I can’t reply directly beneath your comment. This is regarding your feelings that perhaps you’re wrong for sharing so much here. I’m glad you’re sharing yourself here. I told my therapist about your suggestion of telling myself my new affirmations in front of a mirror. She said the same thing Colly & others here said–many of her clients find it difficult to do it. Even 5 min. In front of a mirror made a client uncomfortable. I’ve been trying to follow your advice & I’m discovering glimmers of hope in my eyes, just really making an effort to get past the superficial beauty and really see me. If it weren’t for your simple suggestion, I don’t know if I would think of doing this.
Thank you for your kind words of support, Rosie. I find it very scary because it’s new and uncharted territory. I’m like a fish out of water.
The issue of being seen/heard was/is something I’ve been struggling with most of my life. I’ve spent a good bit of time thinking about this issue and its roots since posting this and have made some really important and helpful connections to the past (and present). I also did EFT to help release the emotions.
I’m really happy to hear that the suggestion was something that may help in your healing and growth. I love the way we can learn and grow from one another!
@ICBIFT; from what you are saying, that you are resigned to not being liked etc., that sounds very much like depression. Depression actually does make us seem unfriendly, uninteresting to ourselves and to others – except to our closest friends. I’m very happy that now my 3-4 closest friends know about my depression and the depths of it. As does my family. So during my worst times at least I am not totally alone, and I can be more honest and tell people to watch out for me as I am starting to cut off from others.
Years ago, when I was very depressed, and also very anxious; I assumed that I was no good, not lovable, why even try etc. OR I’d force myself to go to with total fools and means girls and end up feeling worse. This is all the hopelessness and despair that is the hallmark of depression. I would strongly suggest you read up on depression, cognitive behavioral therapy for dummies is a very good book to get you started rethinking. BUT for that you have to be ready to believe that your resignation at your unlovability is at least partly depression rather than a ‘true’ reflection of you. At the same time, depression does make us more unattractive because we often let ourselves go, can’t be positive, can’t have fun etc – at that time, less close friends or work colleagues will not be able to do anything for you at all and will probably move away cuz they dont know you enough to see the good parts of you when you’re in the worst of it.
So — I can’t say whether you will find a person to date, but I can guarantee that you will get your mojo back especially if you commit to getting healthier emotionally.
It’s kind of like a never ending battle with myself.. I know what’s not good for me, and I know what I want, and what I’m worth, and I know my values, BUT I constantly struggle with being there for “ME”. It’s funny how some days you can be sooo strong with yourself, and you can just relapse by a memory, a sight, or a text…
I feel so ashamed, I broke a month of NC, hung out with him for the weekend, slept with him, and all that self esteem, all that dignity that I built over the month was just crushed by being in his presence… The crazy thing is that I knew this was going to happen just by seeing him, but some part of me couldn’t help it, I wanted to.. Anyone can relate? How can you win the battle when the demon your facing is YOU?
ughhh. now the letting go speech that I gave him before I started NC doesn’t mean shit, old feelings have crept back up, he’s stuck in my brain, and now every new memory that I’ve made with him this weekend is haunting me.
Back to the starting line again.. I’m a little worried, I thought I was getting stronger, but I do not exemplify strength all that much… But I must say, between the two parts of me that I’m battling, the part of me where I’ve spent building values, my self esteem. That part of me is telling me to keep on fighting, and I am. My emotional state would of been way worse if I didn’t work on myself in the last month.
So instead of self pity, and self harm, I see this as a setback that I must learn from.. I just want to get to the point where I’m fully over him, and where I’m fully loving ME.. I want to fully love myself, and as I say that it makes me sad because I haven’t fully gotten there yet..
Sorry for rambling, I needed to get out my emotions.
Best regards to you all.
TTBS, of course the majority of us can relate to what you’re saying. Without knowing much about your story (why you broke up and why you can’t be together, and why his presence degrades your sense of worth), it’s evident that, like many of us here, you’re battling an addiction. You’re addicted to many things. I find that it’s never just one something. It’s a complex of things that a person makes you feel that is so addictive. Sometimes they are not even nice things (i.e. in my case it was ambiguity and anxiety), they may be painful things but you still yearn for them.
At first you like the high of it. You’re on top of the world. It never lasts. You then come back to the man trying to catch a glimpse of that first love/romance/attention/good feeling. You try and try and try (at this point you can also get addicted to trying while getting used to exists on very little). Then you come back to the source of your addiction thinking that it’s still better with him, than without him. OR, you come back thinking you’re strong enough now, you can take just a whiff of your drug and not be affected.
You probably can see where I am going with this. If you’ve ever read any real life stories about people struggling with heroine, cigarettes, alcohol and even sex addictions, then the mechanism is more or less the same. The remedy is also the same – NO CONTACT. There’s no way around it. If we want to heal, if we want to clean our system, we have to stop bargaining with ourselves (“oh just one more time”) and go full no contact.
Why, You are absolutely right.. It is an addiction. I’m addicted to the good/bad ways he makes me feel. I had this whole story in my head that, “I was strong enough to be around him, and I wouldn’t do anything that would degrade my worth.” I definitely thought I was ready to take a whiff of him and not be affected.. Not at all.
You are right the remedy is NO CONTACT.. I just have to stop battling against myself. I am my own worst enemy in this situation.
I don’t know if u can relate but did you ever struggle with wanting to be friends with the ex ac? but only because you didn’t want it to be all for nothing? It’s something that I was struggling with before I went NC,and still a little bit now that I’ve seen him this past weekend. I wanted something meaningful, I wanted purpose, I find it quite hard to let go of someone you gave your best to, and at the end of the day it’ll all be for nothing..
Ughh I need to get it together.
Thank You Why for responding..
Trying to Be-
I did exactly what you did with MM…. went back after this whole thing about needing to let go ( wasted on him he had no feelings…ESP not for me) that was after he’d told me the other woman was flying in to visit him. And he’d message her from. bed. Ugh
I’ve posted the whole sorry story before)
Only thing I can share is that there are days since then when I HATE myself when I think about it. I forgave him long before I forgave me. And I HATE(D) her (other woman not wife) .. still do. I feel sick when I even hear the country she’s from mentioned. To me she is a cheating (on her boyfriend) demanding, needy demanding loser whose been seeing MM for 2 yrs+. ugh: I even think often how she should get a life and stick to someone her own nationality in her own town. Dumb.
So I know that I won’t be her. I’m better than her cheating or his cheating. On a bad day I think: he chose her over me. On a good day : I dodged a bullet.
I’m sure the key is to reinforce the latter and not take an AC decision and behaviour to you as valuation of you, or your gong back as weakness. I know, It’s hard though.
Suki: you’re spot on. I had a couple of bad bouts of depression 3-4 yrs ago. It’s down to my strength that recovered, I know. But I’m feeling I’m not in a good place now- so work pressures or being told I need to “engage” more with my colleagues is resulting in a less positive report. I almost told my boss but didn’t. The last boss knew and then bullied me more…. it was awful.
Yes the colleagues knew about other woman flying in regularly and knew also MM was married.(I’ve posted before about that) and condoned it. It’s made me wary of some of them in general,
But I thought I’d recovered but I thinkresding your thread made me cry…. maybe I’m not actually recovered. Or maybe my shrinking into myself I’ve let myself get worse. Several good friends have left my town recently. It’s not an easy period.
ICBIFT: dont tell your boss. Sadly mental health is not well understood. Tell a therapist. Tell yourself first. Acknowledge it so you practice more self-care. Seriously. Opt out of non-work related events that are likely to bring you down. Guard your good mood and mental health. Schedule more non-work related events that will make you feel better – massage, eat more chocolate, read happy books, watch comedy shows or funny movies or uplifting things. Get involved in some groups or activities where you dont have to plan things. Make sure you are eating and sleeping enough. Right now if you are depressed, its good to treat yourself as someone that is unwell, that needs to take care of themselves to get healthier. Depression takes a while to sort itself out but it does lift. Turn to people that you trust – dont tell people that you dont trust. Good luck.
ICan’tBelieve,
To me she is a cheating (on her boyfriend) demanding, needy demanding loser whose been seeing MM for 2 yrs+. ugh: I even think often how she should get a life
You’ve come up with this idea about the MM’s other woman that is pretty harsh. Did you spend time with her to get to know her? Or in reality, is this how you see yourself? Is it healthy to “hate” someone who is not behaving any differently from the way you are?
Perhaps you should start to see the guy this way, since according to what you’ve said, this is the way HE actually is. Cheating on his wife with 2 women at the same time? All that needs to be added to your list is selfish.
ICBIFT, Thank you for responding back to me, and I’m sorry for what your going through.. You said that you forgave him long before you forgave yourself… Forgive yourself, and start to heal.
You said that your angry with the other woman and not the wife? Why? This guy was with his wife, you, and the other woman.. He’s the ass clown, he’s the scum.
Some days are going to be hard, but you did dodge a bullet. This man’s actions doesn’t validate you. His inability to see your worth doesn’t diminish your value.
Sweetie, like every other woman or man who comes here, you are WORTHY. You are worthy of love, you are worthy of happiness, you are worthy of RESPECT. Your tears, your sadness, are not worthy of him. He doesn’t deserve it. You know who deserves you? YOU.
Be there for YOU because you are most important.
Best Regards
One additional silly nutty thing- MM said physically I reminded him of a “friend”. Turned out it was other woman.
So now I look at myself in the mirror and hate what I see .
Thank you NML for this empowering post. I read it several times to really absorb and understand your beautiful message.
Oona, thank you as well for your words of kindness and compassion on a very personal post I made recently. You are right, I am very uncomfortable having such a troubling experience out there. But we all have a story that brought us here on this website. I am learning that forgiveness doesn’t mean forgotten and that I need to remember without the shame or the pain that the past can stir up.
ICBIFT
Please don’t turn inwards on this and hate yourself and how you look – turn it outwards and be angry and hateful towards him. Like – what a creep to say something like that? Yuk. I feel for you, it makes my flesh crawl.
I had an email overnight from the ex saying his boss was giving him a PM to look after the project that he’s been sending me strange emails about my employee over. I truly feel relieved and happy that a) I would be able to have must less to do with him directly and b) my poor employee would no longer be inflicted.
It might be small thing, but my feeling like that about less contact, relieved and happy, has to be a good thing for me and shows some progress.
Happy Colly
You sound so much stronger, Colly! Good for you!!
Yes, it sounds like you’re starting to do better and better Colly. Nice work! I seem to respond mostly to you, but it’s because I’ve got such limited time to write on here (and we’re going through the same stuff). But I’m so happy to hear that you are really getting some space from this. I am still up and down (as you know from my posts) but I am slowly getting better and better. NC is the only way to heal and move on. Good stuff 🙂
Hi Leanne,
Well I’m happy that you are too busy to post here much, go girl you are making a full life. I hope it’s plenty of play rather than work?
I have up and down days too, but feel like I was stuck in denial for so long and then am moving swiftly through the other grieving phases. It’s probably cyclical and I’ll go back a bit at some point, but right now, spring is here and the sun is shining and all feels better.
How’s the job hunt?
That’s great Colly 🙂 It’s so nice here right now too! Feels like summer.. so refreshing!
Yes, I’ve been taking lots of time for play and seeing friends. I don’t always feel like getting out, but I know it’s better than sitting around at home thinking about him. And even though it takes an effort to force myself to act happy sometimes, it actually seems to be working.. getting there bit by bit.
The job hunt is slow going right now. I’m in a pretty specific field and there are only a handful of jobs in the city that I can replace this with. I am definitely looking though and networking as I can. In the meantime, keeping busy with fun things. And TOTALLY avoiding ex-MM.. I honestly didn’t even think it was possible before (I would see him everywhere!) It’s amazing what a little planning around where I think he’ll be can do. And amazing what NC is doing for my spirit.
I’ll report back soon with more success I hope. Hope for the same for you! xo
On Easter, I took a crow bar and beat up an empty box, which felt good, but I still wanted to shred his mail and keep his gift cards.
I tore up some of his junk mail, and I smiled, as I cursed his recent actions. Catharsis…. Yep, it felt good, but I decided to stop, and so I placed his gift card back in the envelope and taped it shut.
I ended up needing an ice pack, my eyes are still swollen from all the crying. I did pray to God. I mowed all three of my lawns, and part of the shared lawn on one side. I pulled weeds, swepted up the yard, took two hot showers, washed and brushed my hair, exercised, stretched,drank cups of herbal tea, told myself “It is going to be okay,” wrote in my feelings diary, ate good, healthy meals, tried to watch two movies, and ….
The next day, I asked myself “Why did I beat up the box, and tear up his junk mail, and contemplate stealing his gift cards?” I answered… because I want to hurt him because I hate him because he….
I wondered how the $%#@ does Natalie calm herself down when she writes in her journal? It isn’t enough! Yeah, yeah, I’m assuming a lot…like that she actually gets this angry, but those were my thoughts.
I listened to some Teal Swan videos, as I was painting in oils, and her thoughts on how to deal with anger made a lot of sense.
I remembered once…once, I felt my anger. It was sharp, startling, and deep and pointed. It was like being mildly electrocuted.
When I was a teenager, I used to rage against my mom to get her to back off, and I tried to protect my sanity by blurting out the ‘truth.’ It was a nasty, unfiltered truth; the hidden…the ugly….
I refused to ignore or cover it.
It was my defense against a crazed, borderline psychotic. I was protecting myself, but I wasn’t
containing myself…no boundaries….
==******
I will probably beat up some more empty boxes, but I will also continue to work through my anger. And, I can see how to use my feelings diary now that ….
I matter, and I love myself in the face of my own humanity.
I’m OK with feeling other people’s disapproval. I really don’t give a shit.
I texted him and let him know I have his gift cards. I told him I will keep them for him until he makes arrangements to retrieve them. I’m not a theif; I’m glad I didn’t violate my own values; I’m not going to destroy my good character.
I patted myself on the back for that one. I exercised restraint, and enforced some internal boundaries. I will build on that next time. Maybe, I will try to sit with the anger longer, knowing those feelings will pass, (but I’m not opposed to beating on a box if I want).
My anger passed. I don’t hate him anymore.
I’m not talking about my ex; this person is a family member who did something I didn’t appreciate.
I’m not ready to discuss my anger with him. He has no idea I beat up a box in his honor.
I’m still processing my feelings, which are underneath the anger, and I need to sort through the feelings being triggered from my past.
When I’m ready I’ll talk to him, or I will simply implement new boundaries to take care of myself…one day at a…one minute….
Yep, Natalie, I’m proud of that accomplishment.
There’s my light…eff dimming.
Crystal/ Colly- yes I hate her because she kind of jeopardised my relationship with him by seeking him out agsin (or he’d lied when he said it was over with her dos shed called it a day). I think I wanted to “win”. I hate her because he thought she was great but I never knew if he thought I was. And I hate her because I know/ assume/ he liked her more.
And I hate myself for not calling it a day earlier. I just can’t reconcile all the feeling we talk about on BR. And when I’m filled with hate I dislike myself and think I’m selfish, so hate myself more and do not think I’m ok!
ICBIFT
I used to hate exMOMs wife, feeling like she’d won and took something any from me. I’ve eventually come to see him for what he is and I no longer have that feeling. I realise and feel that nobody is a winner here, his treatment of both women is bad, and that actually I’m the winner for being cut loose (the blessing in disguise) because I get to move on and away. I feel sorry for his wife, and shame at my involvement.
I know its slightly different because you were one of two OW, but really you are even luckier to get away. You don’t need anymore proof than his actions, he can’t love anyone, he’s not capable. This will smack you in the face one day and you’ll feel much better.
Are you sure it’s hate you feel or anger that you can’t process somehow?
Well, ICBIFT, I am appreciating the honesty in your posts. It galls me when women act like ALL women should be friends with each other, when it has been my experience that the people who have hurt me most deeply with betrayal have been other women. Mean girls are everywhere.
Women hate on each other instead of dealing with the real issue – a cheating man. I think ACs in particular use the fact that women are so ready to hate other women. The AC remains blameless for the chaos he causes.
Your anger toward the other other woman is so misplaced, but it makes you feel like there is only one obstacle to your “true love” – her. Not the wife. Not the fact that there may be a third other woman that you have not yet discovered. Not the fact that all of this is a clear testimony to how much your AC loves to deceive. No, let’s not look at those facts. Let’s make it all about a competition for the coveted other woman role in AC land.
No, let’s not even begin to look under the covers to understand why you are so ready to fight to the death to win, at best, second place in someone’s life.
“Women hate on each other instead of dealing with the real issue-a cheating man”. I’m not so sure about that from all I’ve read from BR posters. I think the real issue is why is
someone complicit with the cheater? Why does a woman agree to cross the boundary into ‘affair with a married man’,
And end up on “Baggage Reclaim” in misery?
In my view, BR is not a sisterhood of “dumped other women”. Lots of ACs and EUMs are single.
But about the “affair” – single women aren’t tackling married guys in the street and forcing sex on them. The married man instigates and encourages the relationship. Why is that married person sending out “I am available” signals? If he focused his attentions toward his spouse, there’d be a lot less cheating going on.
About women hating on women – many women worry about the fidelity of their husbands around other attractive women. They future blame the woman for the “potential cheat”. Isn’t the issue their husbands?
Blaming the bar for being the reason he is an alcoholic? Blaming the casino for being the reason he gambled away the mortgage? Blaming the outside person for being the reason a man cheats….? Nope. The problem is with the man. But many women want to make it about the woman.
Elgie, you are right about women not attacking married men. I had NEVER in my LIFE thought I would have anything to do with a married man, EVER. And I’m no spring chick, I had had plenty of chances. And then recently I went on vacation and a guy who worked at the resort zeroed in on me the second I got there. He was SO friendly, upbeat, flirty. He wasn’t wearing a wedding ring. I assumed he was single. Several days into the vacay, with him being my guide and taking me through arduous treks through the mountains, I began falling for him and, I thought, him for me. He only bothered to tell me he was married after we got into a clinch. I’m not going to excuse my part in it but none of would have happened if he’d actually ACTED like a married guy!
ICan’tBelieve,
It just sounds to me like you’re putting some hatred onto this woman only because her behaviour isn’t any different than yours. My point is not that you should hate yourself, but to look at the ways that you’re judging and insulting her. It strikes me that you speak about her in the same ways that you likely think about yourself. Because if she’s wrong to be with this guy, then so are you, but if you call her out first then you don’t really have to examine your own behaviour. (You can be certain that his wife doesn’t see either one of you as better than the other, and that she hates both of you equally.)
And of course, no-one is a winner here. A lying, cheating man is no prize except in his own mind. It’s sad that his wife is stuck with him. She didn’t “win” anything.
I need to store my feelings from today somewhere safe, so that I can relive them when I have a bad day: Today, for the first time in many months, I sat in the office, in a meeting room, opposite the jerk colleague for a full day and felt totally indifferent. I just noticed at some point that I had not cared at all what he did or said, more observing his behaviour than hating, judging or actively trying to come up with ways of avoiding or blocking him.
I still feel somewhat sad and disappointed, but these days it’s more about what he’s lost and what he could not appreciate enough. He had plenty of chances being a good friend to me and he f****d up each opportunity. Time to move on!
ICan’tBelieveIFoundThis!: “But V. your para 3- how do I change? Feels HUGE, not a small adjustment.”
So how do you walk a 10 mile walk? One step at a time, right? Of course it is huge, and huge is made of a lot of small adjustmets. You are already changing, you are expanding your awareness by posing so many questions and reading this blog and embracing new insights that come your way. Just keep going and have faith in yourself. After a while you’ll look back and see how far you’ve come. Also, no rush :). Best, V.
I find as I get older and still feel unfufilled, especially in the relationship dept, I feel more and more shame. I resonate with Nat’s comment:
“We lose our mojo with the self-work if it doesn’t generate instant or fast results and go back to repeating what we already know doesn’t work while secretly accepting failure.”
However, I have also felt more self love, but still vacillate between shame and self love. Definately, dating brings on alot of shame for me now, so I have decided I need to stop dating, especially online dating, which has only led me onto the path of more shame.
I was brought up in a family with alot of toxic shame and I felt like the scapegoat, so this is a really tough one for me. I still speak to my family and visit rarely. My mother who is shame filled did a good job of passing it onto me, my father is not much better. I’ve tried to not talk to them, done alot of work around this, but the more failure I experience, the more shame I seem to accumulate, my hormones may have a lot to do with it these days.
This is a really tough one for me. Forgiving myself for buying into BS, like a man is going to take care of me and that I need to wait for a man to make big life decisions like buying a home, well, I just screwed myself over (and possibly my future) because now it is too late to do these things (prices of homes are way too high now where I live)
I just told my mother that I want to get a MA, she replies, you are too old and I know I kind of think that too (not to mention the expense), so it’s easy to get discouraged, even though I am a good student. So, yes, I feel a lot of shame and it’s tough. I just would have done things a lot differently if I knew I would be single for most of my life.
I know I must sound like a victim and I guess I feel that way becasue I have missed out on a lot including being married and having a family. It’s darn hard to not feel shame when I had expectations of so much more in my life and I feel my potential slipping away.
I am trying to create a different life for myself, but it is tough, really tough, so shame keeps creeping in..there is so much I need to change and I just feel stuck.
Whatever, what you write really resonates with me. Everything.
Especially “Forgiving myself for buying into BS, like a man is going to take care of me and that I need to wait for a man to make big life decisions”. In my case it wasn’t the house, but something else but now I also think, “eh, I am too old”. I also tried to get into graduate school at least 3 times and did not. For many reasons. Mostly self-inflicted. But I also know that getting there is one thing. But having enough funds to pay for it and support myself at the same time is something else entirely. And I cannot afford it.
I also think we both do a lot of comparisons. Comparing ourselves to others. What we should already have acquired at “our age”. Or, not do certain things.
Sometimes when I stop my mental anguish, I am surprised to see that I took the initiative from my mother and now doing her job at whipping my self esteem instead of her. But I don’t have to. You don’t have to.
I don’t really have any advice for you. But I just wanted to let you know that you’re not alone. There are many of us here, in the shadows.
I am also re-reading NML’s post on comparing yourself to others and self-esteem. Maybe it will be of some interest to you https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/why-youve-got-to-minimise-comparison-to-improve-your-self-esteem/
Hi Whatever,
As Why said in her response to you, you are not alone. I blame myself for missing on the family and children I wanted to have. The need to have those led to many mistakes, where I wasn’t choosing in accord with my beliefs and values. I became a people-pleaser. But I have to forgive myself and remember that I did the best I could with the info I had. I had nobody to teach me about healthy love and realistic expectations. As you said, you are creating a new life for yourself, believe in that and allow it to flourish one day at a day. Practice gratitude and stay strong. Your sister in spirit:-)
@Why, truthinclarity and Ican’tbelieveIfound this
Thank you so much for your kind words and letting me know that I’m not the only one who feels like this. I feel like we need a support group just for this, gals who missed out.
Today I feel better and clearer and my hormones aren’t beating on me as much, probably because I have decided not to go for hormone replacement drugs due to the side effects, so I’ll have to deal with the mood swings. But really, I’ve battled them my whole life, due to my upbringing.
Why, I agree with the self comparison, that’s the worst! This is something we MUST stop. Oh well, what to do? Is it fear that stopped us, or are we just not willing to put up with less than what we want? Funny thing is, I feel like I am putting up with less than, in other ways and in myself now. I think it’s a question of acceptance of what is and of ourselves and as few of you mentioned, gratitude. Good luck to us!
Colly, V.
Thank you for your support and advice. It means so much.
Deep down I know I was lucky to get away, and know MM doesn’t love people. A female friend who also had a v similar experience said these kind of men (particular job/ region/ age etc). often have an unhealthy view of women.
If there was one good thing of hanging around with him / going back (like TryingToBeStronger) the last weekend was when he started to talk about his wife. That was the moment I thought my heart would break- for her. Because he sounded like after 25 yrs of marriage to her, having children, life, history? what sounded like the picture perfect life (one colleagye still admires MM for his perfect family….)
He more or less said that HE was owed this life now- where he could have sex with other women. And oh how ‘good’ he had been to have ‘only had 2 affairs’ – me and foreign OW. I was disgusted because he was basically justifying all this to himself. Affairs, one night stands, sex with people he didn’t even know the name of. I reckon wife may have cheated too- but that just meant of the 3 of us (her, foreign OW, me) id have been the only moron who was monogamous! God help me: I was lucky to gave called it a day.
ElgieR : I do know what you say. Makes sense. But I’m always more comfortable with men than women as I fear women in the workplace : at work we judge quicker, are meaner etc. it’s insecuirty perhaps? I hate when I overhear my female colleagues gossip about others. It’s horrid! So unprofessional and usually bitchy. Men are usually easier to read. But this MM was deceitful selfish and msnipulative.
But yet I find it difficult not to feel okay about myself… the MM issues suddenly reappeared, maybe as I’m at a pressure point at work? Triggered? why do I not feel okay about this again, all of a sudden? How do I feel ok, as the post says? I went through a month or so of “ok”. How do I turn this MM sequence of events from last summer: the shame and self hate, to a permanent celebration of the fact that I’m in NC and he knows, and free?
How, V. Do the small steps finally bed-in and become permanent?
Just slow down. If you slow down, what is not processed will come to the fore, be it hurt anger or fear. You sound anxious from your posts, a lot of pressing questions and hurry. Let yourself feel the feelings instead of running away from them, that is the definitive way for discharging them.
Also, it is very natural to go back and forth between a bit of denial and a bit of digesting the new painful information. You are doing very well already. Give yourself some more time. V.
TTBStrong
I tried to be friends with MM- yup even after he clearly could not care less about me and treated me worse than the others. He’d email and I ignored for a while but then replied eventually.
I also felt like surely it wasn’t for nothing ( as I never saw it as a committee affair, if that makes sense..) and we were friends.
One of the few colleagurs I told was a v sensible guy who said something that made sense: why do you want to stay friends with someone who will only serve to remind you how badly you were treated?
I ignored it at the time- but only after three months of emails (I forbid him to call me as couldn’t handle it) I realused what he said made sense.
I’d listened to MMs stories, his job stuff, helped him with his child’s job application (I know, I know… Dumb!!!!.) and he’d mention other woman still and I think she was flying in again to meet him. I felt ill:
@Crystsl- maybe I’m the same but I DO feel better than her because I walked away after 5 mths, not 2.5 yrs!
TTBS- I realised I wasn’t getting anything out of it. My fruend was right. Only bad memories. I was due to be in a town near to him, for my work and he said he wanted to see me.
I didn’t reply for two days …. but by then knew I was starting to feel anxious and sad and stressed just thinking about seeing him. I did want to sleep with him but knew I should not . So that was a no go area. Without that what would we talk about? Relive the memories of very good sex? Talk dirty to each other like we used to? Talk about his work/ kids/ other affairs/ how much be hurt me?
No thanks……
Natalie talked about this in older posts very well. It’s like she predicted how I’d feel!
Thanks to recognising my feelings and BR, I declined meeting him. I’ve not heard from him since and hope I don’t for a good while. I didn’t send anything or email on his birthday either. A liberating moment (agsin NML and other sites talk about this: don’t break NC for a birthday….)
It’s still tough ; but I think what you’re feeling is not uncommon: even though I know the shame and mortification of the whole thing still hurts.
AND THANK YOU EVERYBODY ON THIS SITE!
thank you. I have really started to heal only after I realised that the failure of my “relationship” with the EUM wasn’t my fault. I am flawed: so what? I deserve love anyway. And with my flaws come all the good things about me. I deserve people to love me for who I am, for everything I am. It reads banal and simple, it took me 32 years to understand it, not with the mind but with the heart.
I have been coming here at BR for more than 3 years now. The journey is long, and sometimes lonely, but I am trying to keep my head up and remember to love me. I am still not very good at it.
I have sold myself short my whole life. I have never embraced my quirks and differences because I didn’t want to alienate people. I almost got to the point of utterly destroying myself. So now I am working on being nice to me, being sweet, patient, understanding, loving, caring, respectful, quiet, positive, encouraging.
I am learning to embrace all of me, to allow me to be contradictory, to feel the pain and not fear it, to believe in a brighter future.
Things are better. I am less EU now than I used to be. I have a small circle of true friends. I have myself, more often than in the past. I don’t have a partner, but I now it will take time.
I still worry that I will not find a person to build a family with, but then I tell myself that it’s my demons speaking, it’s the bullies and the abusive people and the unavailables telling me that I am not normal, I should be different, I don’t live life the right way, therefore I won’t be able to have a home, a family, children. I know it’s my demons and I only let them speak very briefly before meditating, doing yoga, putting on some make up and smiling at me in the mirror, writing or calling a friend.
Step by step 🙂 Thank you, Nat.
Whatever- I’m with you too. It’s all very familiar to me. And just as I think I’m okay, a tiny blip and the bucketfuls of shame of not bring promoted/ being single/ low salary in my 40s is once again thrown over me drenching me even more than before! (but dramatic but feels like that).
Hmmm wobbling tonight, it’s exMOM’s birthday. I haven’t acknowledged it all day, no card, only very straight professional email responses and all day I’ve been fine – I even forgot for a while. This evening,tired, glass of wine, I’m feeling a bit guilty for not acknowledging it, sad that it has to be this way, but also thinking he doesn’t deserve my time to acknowledge his birthday. So, I’m holding on to the last thought, writing how I feel here instead, and having an early night. I am done and resolved to stay there.
Awesome post! I am really happy to read something fresh with a new spin on things. I love expanding my mind!
It’s hard to believe it after three long years and plenty of emotionally unavailable types stopping me in my tracks that I’m here! I’m finally at a place where it’s all about me and I have to say I love it. The turning point for me was standing up to the last guy and saying, ‘Actually you know what, I deserve better!’. Metaphorically obviously by ending the relationship! Loving yourself for me seems to be the foundation of every relationship and if you don’t have that it’s going to be a bit shaky. Before I broke up with my ex I read loads of posts here about emotionally unavailable types, I even made notes! It helped me to see it wasn’t a reflection on me that he couldn’t meet me in that way. My self esteem took a real nose dive while we were together. Ultimately I listened to my gut feeling which makes it hard to justify when people want a juicy break-up story! Right now I’m quiet happy to sit back, relax and enjoy being single. It’s a nice feeling 🙂