The moment that the decision is made for a relationship to end and the words are final, we feel an immense sense of loss, of insecurity, indignant hurt, and as the dust settles and the days and weeks pass, white space appears where you originally had plans with them. Depending on how you tend to cope with loss (and it is a loss, whether it’s of a relationship or the idea of one) and whether you’re the type that does hurt but gradually starts to heal, get over it, and get on with their life, or whether you sink into a slump, wallow, and let your life come to a halt as you desperately try to find a way to get him and the security of the relationship back, you may draw the conclusion that he’s an assclown because he ended the relationship.
Likewise, it can feel like a blow to the solar plexus when it becomes evident that the person who we feel so much for doesn’t feel the same way. Maybe you’ve discovered that he’s with someone else or he’s started avoiding your contact or has straight up said ‘I’m not interested’ or ‘I don’t want a relationship’ or taken the easier route and said ‘I’m not ready for/looking for a relationship right now’ or even ‘I can’t give you what you want’.
For the demise of a relationship, you’ll be outraged and indignant that he’s not still there with you wanting what you want. You’ll think about how you feel and wonder how he can’t feel the same way. You may wonder if there is someone else or whether he’s confused/scared/having a moment and be plotting how to get him to come around to your way of thinking. You’ve already decided that you’re more than happy to try, to keep working at the relationship and you can’t understand why he doesn’t want to try. Or you may be using every expletive under the sun as you rage at yourself and anyone else who will listen about the fact that the relationship has ended.
If he’s communicated that he’s not interested, you’ll sting from the rejection and may wonder why he doesn’t want you, what you ‘did’ to turn him off, what you ‘could’ do to win him over, or go into a downward spiral because it reminds you of other past rejections.
However you react you may have decided that he’s an assclown, but in general, a man breaking up with you or not being interested does not an assclown make.
Not every relationship has potential or is built to last and not every man has to be interested. Relationships do end and, men are allowed to break up with us and not be interested.
You may be OK with things as they are or constantly trying to ‘make things work’ but the fact that he doesn’t share that same desire is not a crime and it certainly doesn’t make him an assclown.
Likewise, you may see wonderful potential in a relationship between you both and feel a great deal of interest in him, but that doesn’t demand an IOU and if he’s not feeling it, you don’t want to be that persistent car salesman that’s running after the uninterested customer begging them to take another look or lowering your price.
You have to ask yourself why you want a relationship with someone that doesn’t?
If he wants out of the relationship, why don’t you want out of the relationship?
What are you seeing about the relationship that he doesn’t?
What is he seeing about the relationship that you don’t?
Why are you so interested in him?
It’s also important to be honest with yourself and ask whether you feel the level of intensity towards him because you know that the relationship is unlikely to happen, that you get more interested the more resistant they are, or that it’s catering to negative beliefs that you have about relationships, love, and yourself.
The biggest thing that you have to accept about breaking up or being turned down is that it’s not just about what you want.
You cannot project what you think, feel, want, and need onto someone, and assume that ipso facto, they think, feel, want, and need exactly the same things as you. You may have been in a relationship but it doesn’t mean that you have to lose your sense of self and merge each others personalities, characters, and desires.
You may get trapped in your feelings and try to stem the loss and the feeling of rejection by seeking attention from them, giving you a temporary fix but inevitably opening you up to more pain, and potentially causing you to engage in, what is at best, embarrassing and at worst downright humiliating behaviour. You’ll do this to avoid processing how you feel about the end of the relationship or them turning you down, but you’re prolonging the inevitable and beating up your self-esteem and removing your own dignity in the process.
Men cross into assclown territory when they break up with you, not because they broke up, but because of how they choose to end the relationship or how they behave afterwards or in the run up to it. There isn’t a clean, pleasant way to tell someone that a relationship is over, but that doesn’t make it justifiable to do shitty things.
Treating you like shit until you get the message and bring about a confrontation so that he can orchestrate his ending is pathetic. Cheating on you or trying to line up his next ‘victim’ so that he can ensure continuity of en ego stroking is downright nasty. Refusing to give you space, or insisting it’s over, getting a new woman and then calling you up and ensuring that you don’t move on is idiotic. Putting all the blame at your door for why it has ended so that you end up agonising over what you coulda, woulda, shoulda done is cowardly. But when what he does is end the relationship and is upfront with you, it doesn’t make him and assclown, it just makes him uncomfortably (for us) honest.
Men also cross into assclown territory when they know you’re not ‘The One’ and actually know that they have no genuine interest but look at you as an opportunity for a shag, ego stroke, a shoulder to lean on, money, cheap babysitter etc, in spite of knowing that you want more.
There you are seeking validation asking what the deal is with you both, whether he loves you, wants you and he’s like ‘Of course I do baby now listen to my problems/give me a blowjob/buy me stuff ‘. Decent guys, and there are plenty of them, are not comfortable letting you think that the relationship or their interest are more than what they are, and will bite the bullet and be honest with you, or even distance themselves from you if you won’t listen.
And this is why it is important to listen and to open your eyes. Avoid loving and trusting blindly and keep your feet in reality because you have a responsibility to yourself to act in your own interests and make yourself opt out of situations that detract from you even if you have to experience initial pain. Be under no illusions even if that means confronting a painful truth – if you stick around with someone who wants out or who shows or voices their disinterest, you’re only lying to yourself and opening yourself up to more pain.
Your thoughts?
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my thought is that it’s not black or white, or all that obvious all of the time. That you either have to do with an AC rather than with somebody who’s just not that into you. One can be a mixture of bad habits, very much into you, while seeing the relationship doesn’t work but handles it badly.
And so, reacting to that can also give a mixture, of purely NC, or NC with a tendency to be gentle.
I find myself in a spot right there, where I know some of the things he said and did were all but decent towards me, but I know he isn’t a bad guy, or a worm or whatever, I also know he would’ve kept hanging around if I’d let him, and maybe he’ll try to contact me and maybe he won’t.
The thing is, he sure did put a lot of my self-esteem I had to shreds, and that is not love.
On the other hand, I know he’s hurting to, and I know what he felt for me, he felt was love.
I don’t want to put anybody down, I know where I come from and my former long relationship was heartache, betrayal and emotional abuse ALL over, but the moment you recognise such behaviour and you can distance yourself from that because you know you are a ‘good person’ makes it easier since you feel pitty for them in the long run.
Being with someone, or leaving someone or going NC on someone who you know isn’t a bad person inside when push comes to shove, but can behave in a terrible non-respecting way when angry and frustrated is and not knowing what to do or say, however much it doesn’t justify the swearing and the emotional attacks and the shutting you down, well, it’s frustrating.
But I also do agree with all of the above, it isn’t easy to put people into boxes allthough the things they do are very much similar (which is astounding really), not every EUM is laughing their eyes out at your distress, some of those guys actualy cry along with you, even when their behaviour wasn’t ok at all.
i have a question for you Sofie, since i agree with what you said and felt the same about somebody, until i found out that he had already lined up someone else when we broke up, that he also ended up moving in with shortly after.
my question therefore is if you found out that the guy you speak of in your comment has already moved in with another woman (when that was the last thing that you thought he would do the moment you were over), would you think differently of him in terms of him being an AC or not? because if you would think that he is one given that “new” info, then maybe putting people into AC boxes is merely dependent on how hurtful the facts surrounding your break up have been?
i’m just trying to sort out why i used to feel and think like you until i found out that he indeed was very ready for a relationship, he just didn’t want one with me (I got the “i guess i’m not ready for a relationship” spiel). Because i still want to think/feel the way you do (it’s gentler on the soul) and tell myself everyone has a right to change their mind, even if 10 min later – yet i can’t help feeling like that made all the difference; where the line was drawn between good guy with bad behavior to flat out despicable assclown.
if I understand this correctly, I say he was an AC, no doubt about it
If you consider cowardly behavior despicable in an adult ( I happen to) then saying “I am not ready” when you really mean “I have found someone else” is ……cowardly assisnine behavior in any romantic relationship.
If you respect someone you don’t treat them like a child that can’t handle the “truth” especially if your version of truth makes you appear to be a better person.
hi C,
if my now 10-days-ex had moved on allready, and not only that but would be moving in with another woman in say 2 months, well even 4 or so, that would definitely make him a big time assclown.
I percieve my ex in that way mentioned above because, allthough I feel like my feelings have been neglected all the time we were together, and some serious EUM-behaviour was going on, ànd he would say the most obnoxious things about me, to me, I think I know his love-feelings were sincere.
I think he should be reading sites like these and explore the inner sources of what led to this, but never will because of a serious amount of arrogance and self righteousness and therefor an amount of assclown-behaviour, and I will, not because I see myself as such an angel, but because I want to understand what happened or what is happening, and he won’t. The day to day reality of what being with him was like frankly.
And so maybe, by putting the whole blame on the fact that one wouldn’t ‘follow’ his ways, or react in the ways he wished to be reacted upon, a man could conclude you don’t exist no more, because you don’t fit his program.
Being it definitely not about you anymore, but about another ‘victim’, and maybe about a woman who is willing to do the things you were once willing to do in the beginning of your relationship with him, stroking his ego.
This is hurtfull, because the love you think he had for you, has suddenly been given to somebody else, but if his feelings for you were deep and sincere, surely moving on that quickly seems somewhat unnatural and feels more like rebound-behaviour to me, or just plain superficial and egocentric.
It would however again, make the detachment from him easier, because again this would be ‘proove’ that he is a jerk, at least, to me it would.
Sofie,
Many of us are not taught about honor, and responsibility, and respect, not at home, and often we don’t encounter it later in life.
What he does after the breakup, or perhaps even during or before, might be part of an ongoing pattern (a bozo, that is), but it might also be inexperience (How “should” you say you want out?) or misguidedness (I don’t want to hurt her, but I don’t want to stay.)
If a guy turns to someone else immediately at the end of things – it doesn’t mean anything more than he found someone interesting and interested, and neither one of them is smart enough to count the baggage he (at a minimum) hasn’t dealt with. We have all heard the fairy tale ending, of a guy stops at a bar, picks up an evening’s encounter – and they marry within the week. It does happen. We just don’t factor in how often the story ends less happily – as most “rebound” stories end unhappily.
If he found someone, realized he wants that relationship instead of being with you – he made a choice. It would be crappy for him to make the choice to move on – and didn’t move on right away. It would be manipulative and rude not to let you know, immediately that he chose. That would not be enough to make him an assclown, if his actions from before that didn’t make him an assclown. Deluded, headed for disaster, rude, crude, disrespectful – it happens. Owning up to mistakes and working to prevent recurrence is part of growing older and wiser.
In any case, once your partner believes the relationship is over, you have a choice – I think the wise path is to respect yourself and your beliefs, and accept his choice. What he does or doesn’t do after that moment is not longer your concern, your responsibility, nor does it reflect on you (at least, not more than the fact that you kept him in your life – whether he was responsible and respectful, or an abusive bozo).
I agree with what you say Brad, and allthough this has not been the case with my last relationship, it was however the case with my previous long relationship. One which was a very confusing, tiring and heartbraking relationship because this guy was everything an assclown describes and more.
He did ‘move on’ throughout the breakup (cheated in other words) and after, he moved in with one of his many relationships that were to follow, after a couple of months, I wà s extremely hurt over that, yet somehow it made me feel more free. That’s really what I was trying to say, if ‘your guy’ moves on that quickly, or/à nd you can see it has more to do with not getting ‘the message’ about his own behaviour and responsibility thus not taking the time to try and see the whole picture, only then when he doesn’t, I felt I myself could detach from him easier.
I could let gim go in a more relaxt way, I found myself dealing with myself in a more focussed way because clearly he was just going to act the same as he allways did.
And that reassured me I was taking the good road by focussing on myself.
I wouldn’t wonder what he was doing anymore, because a) he was going to do the exact same things the exact same way and b) it wasn’t my problem anymore but the other girl’s problem. Maybe a bit of a tricky thought, but I felt better. Not about myself, though I was starting to, but about the whole situation.
Still I think, no matter the circumstances of your upbringing and your experiences (he wasn’t a adolescent anymore and I wasn’t his first), one cà n tell the difference between right or wrong. There are off course shades of grey, but some things really are black and white, right and wrong.
It takes courage and a sense of care and empathy, and those qualities may come hard for some, but with effort and a bit of work, a short clean and ‘honest’ breaking up, surely that’s not too much too ask.
My feeling is, when they don’t and take the ‘easy’ road, I could move on quicker because I didn’t feel I had left a lot behind.
And so I did, and it felt really good 🙂
I haven’t seen him in 4 years, a NC of 4 years because I still don’t want to see him, and allthough some things about that past get to me when I think about them long enough,
it has nothing more to do with him, more a sense of guilt about the wasted time I spent with him.
He’s gone and I am very very happy about that.
I feel good reading this. Sometimes the reason a man becomes an assclown is because I continue chasing him AFTER he tells me he doesn’t want a relationship. A man isn’t going to turn down a free meal, ya know? And me continuing to feel upset that he doesn’t want a relationship is my issue, not his.
Bull. As Natalie said; decent guys won’t be comfortable with you wanting more if they don’t want a relationship. It isn’t your fault if an assclown takes advantage of your feelings for them. But now you are aware of it and know what to look for. I was used by my assclown for a long time and he would say things such as “I didn’t ask for your love” but he sure in the hell took it. Men who use and take advantage of vulnerabilities don’t become assclowns overnight. Your fault in this lies in the fact that you let your guard down because of how you felt. That is all. Don’t convince yourself that YOU turn these men into assclowns…
AMEN!
I think NML just described, once again, last AC. And I can totally see and even compare an AC to a good guy. Good men wether the relationship was good or not, dont string you along and try to suck the life out of you until they had enough to move one with someone else. Just think about how cruel that is. Any human with some sense of consciousness, guilt, morality and a bit of human emotions would at least go permanently cold on you so you get the message and set you free.
I think we need to “open our eyes and ears”. These men may or may not take advantage of us but if we are real with what they are doing and saying then we become responsible for the outcome.
‘I think we need to “open our eyes and ears”. These men may or may not take advantage of us but if we are real with what they are doing and saying then we become responsible for the outcome.’
Amen ME! My sentiments exactly.
Hi Cindy
Have you heard the expression, ‘It takes two to tango’?
If someone is so unhealthy, delusional, needy, in denial, desperate or whatever they are going through that they insist on still pursuing someone who HAS STATED gently or blatantly that they are not ready/don’t want/.are confused/or too messed up to have a relationship…………. and…………. the man ALSO is so unhealthy/delusional/confused/needy/looking for an ego stroke/horney/weak or whatever……that he ‘EVENTUALLY’ gives in to the offer foisted on him but later regrets it…… who is vulnerable and who exactly is the AC in this scenario?
In my humble opinion BOTH are encouraging and contributing to the dysfunctional dance.
Some guys are decent but just like some women just simply don’t know how to say a harsh NO that some women need. Some women don’t want to ACCEPT that someone doesn’t want to be with them and it FORCES some men to give them a harsh NO by some not so pleasant action (like suddenly going into the witness protection program), then the women feel hard done by and call the person an AC.
Nikko is recognising HER issues and that is going in some POSITIVE direction towards dealing with them. Well done you, Nikko!
Most of the time it is actually not about the other person, it is about US and what WE are doing to encourage a less then desirable situation.
Ah, but what about the ones that won’t tell you they’re not interested and still sleep with you knowing you want a relationship? They’re dogs and you’re humiliating yourself in chasing.
So what I understand from the previous post and this one is the following: When two people have declared each other bf/gf (after the bf asking if one wants to be his gf), and then, about 2 months later, disappears after the gf responds to his text asking if he is still interested in hanging out the next time as they might have planned (only to find out later that his dating profile “interested in” went from “long term” to “dating but nothing serious”), that is assclownery. Am I correct?
Or another assclownery version is when he refuses/ignores your question about why your status is still single in your profile? after 2 months dating. Seriously, I think all NML post carry one single very simple message: ALL MEN and I mean ALL MEN who dont show a genuine interest in you in any way or form fall directly into the cathegory of assclowns and they definitely dont deserve to get any chance with us at all. Best move will be for us to quit inmediately, no reasons, no explanations, nothing, basically NC, just dissapear and continue on dating and give BETTER GOOD MEN a chance.
Lol. Thanks.
I’m actually getting back my self-esteem. I’m trying new things and I have a better motivational drive than I did before. I think I’ve learned more about myself and people in general after the first half of this year thus I can pretty much .
I’m tired of getting the run around. Thus I will try to trust my instincts more and let the guy do most of the pursuing. Heh. :op
*thus I can pretty much say that I am feeling a lot better.
Thank you for your clarification. Yes, the feeling of rejection is a killer, but as you said, “why would you want to be with someone who doesn’t want to be with you?” Really that’s the bottom line, assclown or not. I heavily pursued an unavailable married man for close to two years, such a waste of time. The good thing that came out of it was my discovery of this site, reclaming my self-esteem, and the opportunity to find myself instead of losing myself in another dead end relationship. I am a better person for the experience, because I know without a doubt, I will never allow myself to be involved in another unhealthy relationship.
Nailed that one for me. Illusions poof! Was an EUM/AC before he met me, was an EUM/AC while with me and will continue to be an EUM/AC. Would have been alot easier to get over, let go if he was a decent guy who just didn’t feel the same way and broke it off because he couldn’t meet my needs as clearly stated.
“Putting all the blame at your door for why it has ended so that you end up agonising over what you coulda, woulda, shoulda done is cowardly.” He did this and much much more!
The shitty behavior cannot be ignored or forgotten or excused.
The fact that I fell so hard and trusted so blindly that I did not see it was my failing. I forgive me – he can kiss my as*.
I disagree about the ‘getting over a guy and especialy an AC is harder just because he was an AC’.
My previous relationship of 5 years, where I found out I was cheated upon not 10, or 20 but over 40 times (yes !)’ had left me shattered and yes, heart broken, but I didn’t need to get over the guy.
I needed to get over myself for being that ‘blind’.
Getting over a guy, mutualy deciding things don’t work between you two, seems harder to me, because you are left with all these subtle reasons why it didn’t work, and subtle reasons seem harder to comprehend and take longer to accept than obvious AC behaviour.
The hurt may be deeper and more profound and more devistating, but I think the hurt is out of guilt to yourself, the hurt you feel over a guy like that, I would call anger.
And anger is, I think, an even stronger emotion than any rejection could make you feel.
Yes, Ellie, that is an Assclownry. There was the definition of a relationship (i.e. boyfriend/girlfriend status), then he disappeared without a trace when the gf asked what plans are. In my mind, if the relationship has been defined, there needs to be a conversation to undefine the relationship. Or else someone is falling into the Assclown category.
I just ended something with someone, leaving me trying to figure out how much of an Assclown he is. He’s respected my need for space and is leaving me alone, but he puts women through “tests”, all just to see if they can earn a spot in an emotionally ambiguous relationship with him.
For instance, he wants to make sure they are emotionally mature, so he engages them in long, deep conversations about past relationships, where they reveal a lot and he reveals very little. Before they can sex with him, he makes every woman get tested for STIs, which he calls a “weeding out” process because he refuses to sleep with those who don’t. (He will get tested if you demand it, but his surefire rule is that the woman get tested.) His reasoning is logical, on the surface, but he the whole “weeding out” thing seems somewhat manipulative to me. He also controls when he thinks this STI testing happens in the relationship. After women pass all these tests (which can take several months), women enter in a very no-strings attached dating relationship, where they are held at arm’s length. Most of the women he goes after are divorced women with kids, because he is satisfied they won’t expect marriage or children from him, which I guess he is upfront about.
What bugged me about my relationship with him is that, initially, he said he wanted to just be professional (as did I, we were working together on a political campaign. I was volunteering my time), but he continued flirting with me and chasing me. After some thought, I decided to test the waters to see if we could mix business with pleasure. Things were going very well (his words, not mine, guess I passed most of his crazy tests), but he apparently couldn’t handle that. He ended our relationship to focus on the campaign. I immediately quit the campaign. I felt played; plus, there weren’t enough positives in the campaign to keep me there. He’s left me alone since. Guess he has backup women.
And now, I guess, I’m evaluating him for Assclownry. Seems like a mixed bag.
Yes, tests ! haha, my ex did the same, also on the STI thing, because he would always assume I had ‘many boyfriends in the past’ no matter what I said, and that that wasn’t true, but in those 14 months he never took one.
My EUM (how fluently I call him that these days) had a daughter of 7 years old.
He said in our first 2-3 weeks together, that he actualy wasn’t looking for someone like me, he was looking for a single mom with a kid the same age as his daughter so it could be ‘cosy like that’ and the woman would already have ‘her kid’ hence wouldn’t want any more.
I’m 31 and in my prime and childless, so, that wasn’t the pancake he initialy wanted to eat.
Whenever we had an argument that would result in him going ‘numb’ he would throw in his kid, that it wasn’t about him alone anymore.
So I needed to ‘calm down’ for her sake (she wasn’t present or anything).
I never realised that that was maybe his job, if it was a job to be done in the first place.
He would throw the child’s name in every ‘arguing’ email we shared, ‘what about her’ ‘(the child) gives her regards’ ‘she misses you’.
He would nèver apologise for any of his outrageous namecalling, but throw in a little guilt-reminder because he has a daughter.
Although he loves his kid with all his heart, I too felt played through it, as if I was the one who had to proove my love for his daughter and my capability of helping to raise her, and as if it was a reason to shut me down whenever I thougth I wasn’t being respected in how I felt.
Sofie, does your Mr. Wonderful have full custody of his daughter, she lives with him?
no, co-parentship, 3,5 days a week. Seems to work out fine..
(haha my mr wonderfull, yeah songs could be definitely made that’s for sure)
Seems like he uses the fact that he has a daughter to manipulate your or a situation. The name calling should really bother you, that makes him trash, you should never tolerate that. I know you said at one point that he has a beautiful mind, where is his filthy mouth coming from?
(…)
I am clearly making excuses for him aren’t I :-s
Again it’s like he didn’t mean no harm and I’m just to selfcentered to see his good intentions.
But swearing and making those harmfull words so personal and hurting, really is a very assclowny thing to do and shows no compassion or love for the another person what so ever. He got it out of his system, by putting it in mine.
There should be no excuse for that, I’m fooling myself.
This is so true. I dated a EUM for two years who was honest enough to tell me that he wasn’t ready to give me the commitment that I wanted. I valued the fact that he had enough respect for me to be upfront about it. I, of course, clung to vision that I had of us. I prolonged my pain. My 5 years with the Assclown, was much different. I had very little self-esteem, and had poor relationship habits. Not only did he see that I had little self-esteem he also preyed on it. That’s what makes him an Assclown. Happy belated birthday Natalie- many blessings for you and your family for the coming year. Married life is delightfully peaceful. It’s funny you know, my mother was right. I don’t want at almost 45 (gulp 🙁 ) what I wanted at 25….Life is delightfully dull, and I just adore it..:-)
I loved reading this Res, becasuel I know is you have been on here longer than me,
Somehow I know that you recovered from EUM/AC lalla land and that you are over assclownitus and I don’t really need to know any more. I know there is light at the end of the AC tunnel, without giving up on men, and I am just happy you post here as an example of recovery. Thank you.
No problem, Aphrogirl. “Getting real” with myself was difficult, but pain, hurt, it doesn’t kill you. I’ve grown as a person, so much so, that I wouldn’t have changed anything. I am married now to a man who worships me. That’s what I deserve..love, care, and respect…..that’s what we all deserve. There are no fairy tales in life. Sometimes I feel a bit sad about that. But having a REAL healthy, mutually fulfilling relationship is definitely better than waking up in my 50’s or 60’s realizing I was waiting for something that doesn’t exist in the first place. I think the biggest lesson that I learned was that chemistry is NOT love. As NML so eloquently stated, I know longer trust my “vajayjay” to pick a partner for me. I love that phrase 🙂 Good luck to you, and remember feeling pain is part of the journey. By avoiding it we avoid improving our lives and moving on. Pain doesn’t kill you. That I promise 🙂
Hugs!
@Res, thank you for your inspiring words of wisdom! I am finally free of my AC, and it is a great feelings:-)
I am single and happy, do not want to date anyone for now!
@NML, thank you so much for everything you did, all your great posts helped me and I wish you all the best!
That’s great to hear Happy Soul! After 7 years in two unfulfilling relationships, the first thing that I did was CHOOSE to NOT date anyone until I dealt with ME first. It was the first truly selfish thing that I could have done for myself! I really felt a complete sense of freedom that I’d never experienced before…..and I loved it!
I realize that just because a man doesn’t want a relationship with you, it doesn’t make him an assclown. I do note, however, that assclownery usually rears its ugly head when a guy tells you (or tries to tell you through his assclown behaviour) that he’s not interested.
Future faking before the break up – assclown
Breaking up over e-mail – assclown
Putting you at the bottom of his priority list so you’re forced to start an argument because he’s non-communicative – assclown
Showing interest and saying “maybe” to a relationship when he knows he only wants a shag – assclown
Lying about where he’s been or what he’s doing – assclown
I’m fine if a man doesn’t want to date me. But for once I’d really like him just to be upfront and honest while still treating my feelings with respect and kindness. A face to face conversation with him just saying “I like you but I don’t see future for us because I don’t think we’re a good match” would suffice, followed by a question and answer period to clear up lingering questions. LOL.
I’m not unreasonable, crazy or a stalker. Anyone who dates me should know that I welcome talking like two adults and am not going to make life difficult for him if he decides to leave on respectful terms. (But anyway, if you’re going to dump someone who has been a big part of your life for a certain period of time, a few tears shouldn’t be a huge thing to deal with).
I realize that respect and kindness and honesty can be difficult or uncomfortable in a situation where you’re trying to bow out gracefully, but we’re not teenagers any more. I feel like no one is interested in doing the right thing these days. Respect is a lost art. Disappearing or acting shabbily is the easiest and they don’t have to deal with the fallout. Unfortunately, the other party does.
I agree 100%…the guy I dated for 4 months broke my heart in the most heartless way. thought that he was letting me down easy (coward) said that his plate was full and that he pretty much cut off a lot of his “friends” and that he would call ne soon. Well 2 monts later, after many prompts from me I finally got it…I tested him and confronted him on what he was doing. His response? I did tell you that I was not looking for a relationship. What BS!! He never did say that ever. I am doing my best to move on, but it has taken a toll on my self esteem. How dare he???
Hi Fluffernutter
I agree totally with your last paragraph.
With the advancement of technology, we seem to have lost the real art of direct communication. Technology, great though it is and can be has made it easier to avoid (text/email), to not deal with a problem in a relationship (just go on the internet and look for someone else to give one’s flagging ego a stroke in some chat-room or dating site).
Before all this technology you had no choice but to develop your social skills because you HAD to see (each other locally) and talk and deal with it. These days people can disappear into the ether as quickly as they first appeared!
Half the time they can tell you BS, fantasise and tell you what they think you want to hear because you don’t really know their family, friends or community anymore so you can’t check them out to any large degree.
All these things acted as checks and balances and glue to a relationship.
It can sometimes be like the ‘wild west’ out there now!
Yikes, FN, my ex ticks all those boxes…(he even told me he was talking to his grandmother about proposing to me this Summer a mere three days before dumping me) and has definitely used contemporary technology to duck out of his responsibilities and weave out of the fall-out. He never had to see or experience how much he shocked and hurt me, and what a practical shitstorm he left me in. And I had no opportunity to participate in the discourse of what happened and why.
But, the more time I get, the more I realise that I was being a bit of an AC too. Not in a real sense – ie still v honest, dependable, kind, loyal, open and warm – but in the sense that I was so keen for this relationship to take me to that next stage of life (ie settling down) that there was something unsteady about the way I engaged with him. It was like I thought if I just said it should happen, ‘it’ being the grand, ‘certain’ future, it would. I bulldozed him a bit. It shouldn’t have been fatal, but combined with his genuine flitty behavour and intense intimacy fears, it was. So I am taking a few lessons from this, and considering that I have my own integrity and self-composure issues to work on too…
I totally agree. Respect is a dying art and many people prefer to take the low road or the easy one rather than deal honestly and fairly. This has devastating effects on a relationship.
I think the most disrespectful thing a person can do is break-up with you. Why would you want to justify or quantify it more than recognizing this man isn’t the one. Whether he got that feeling or just knew you weren’t the one isn’t a crime but if someone makes it clear to you that they prefer the company of someone else, no one else or anyone else to you’re exclusive company they may not be an assclown but they surely aren’t for you. Its hard to accept but its like being cut by a knife. would you forgive your friend for stabbing you or try to make excuses to figure out why. Hell no, they cut you, you’re hurt stay away from this dangerous person with a knife. relationships are no different when you are hurt, shocked, stunned and/ or blindsided by a breakup consider it a favor done. Move on and whether they are an assclown or not they aren’t on the same relationship path as you are. Accept it.
Yes, I totally agree.
Someone once told me “Rejection is God’s protection.” I have found this advice comforting so many times.
If you have been rejected …. There is someone or something better out there for you. The trick is how to build belief and attract love into your life.
‘Rejection is God’s protection’
Cathy J, love that!
I believe so. If we can only leave our ego’s outside the door, rejection becomes totally powerless. If your MIND is in a great place, it can actually turn rejection into being a very empowering experience.
It really is all in the MIND.
I want my mind to be on my team! I had another set of dreams last night about my ex, after a relatively normal period, in which I was able to confront him in person (I do believe that being dumped via email and without any say in what happened and why would disturb all but the supremely emotionally healthy…or else super detached, oblivious person), but my mind could not give him the words to reply to me. He just avoided and rejected me again. I woke up anxious.
Anyway, this whole experience has taught me that I am not nearly as good with letting go or accepting uncertainty as I would like to be at this stage of life. I also find it pretty astounding that I can’t be open to the idea that someone who is clearly a flitty little fuc*er would leave me. I still have such desire for him, but it’s part fantasy and the rest is based on the superficial (because he is so impressive, intellectual and good-looking). I am also not used to giving up on things, but obviously one can’t hold up a whole relationship on one’s own. He has left.
Then I feel like I am being too hard on myself, and putting too much on my shoulders. Then I feel bad about both – being a benevolent nutter on the one hand, and then too hard on myself/too susceptible to blame/shame on the other. I need some help! I am emotionally tired.
Enlightened…You around? ; )
Is it better for me to keep going cold turkey on the NC, and go through the whole process of letting go, on my own…or is it worth me having a conversation, a kind of ‘victim impact statement’ experience and also an opportunity to take him off his pedestal…It’s hard because I don’t trust that he would listen or care because it would require too much honesty from him. I am stuck.
I would say keep marching forward. With some things, let the world come to you.
Be strong and best of luck.
Thanks Judy…You’re right. I grew up in a household where we had to be accountable for all of our behaviour, and resolve conflict fully. There are many good things that came from this family culture, but it also means that I have never been great at moving on without agreement/’peace’. It’s one of the hardest things for me, and I tend to be willing to give too much in the spirit of resolution. I really think I need to use this as an opportunity to back myself…and, like you said, let the world come to me, instead of me chasing all these things I don’t have control over and are ultimately thankless tasks! But I am having some trouble with it..
This clears up a few lingering doubts I’ve had. He did break up with me face to face, and was actually very tactful about the breakup, but 3 or 4 weeks prior to the breakup, he was easing his way out. Not calling as much, never making plans for the weekend until the last minute. Sometimes even making plans and not following through. In the beginning he wanted to see me daily, but the last 3 or 4 weeks, he got “busy”. I even asked him a few times had he lost interest, and he said no. But like NML said, they behave in such a way that forces a controntation, and then he broke up with me. He actually said, “Well, you were the one who brought it up. I wasn’t going to say anything.”
WTF? Did he mean he was going to continue stringing me along, when he knew he wanted to break up?
Then he said he wanted to be friends, and I said I could not do that, at least not right away, because it was too fresh. I don’t hear from him for two days, and I assume that’s it. Then he starts calling me just to say hi. Of course, I take responsibility for taking his calls, but I actually thought that maybe he was having second thoughts, especially since I said I would not be able to be friends right away. I can see now that I deluded myself, and his behavior was classic AC. He was just trying to keep tabs on me to see if I was moving on. The longer it went on, the more miserable I became being his “friend”, because I knew that I still had feelings, and that if he ever started dating someone new, that would be the end of our “friendship”.
So, yeah, I can see now that he was not being a decent guy to me before the breakup, and was definitely not considerate of my feelings after the breakup.
I mean, I get that some people don’t mean to hurt others intentionally. There may be some emotional pain from the past that causes them to act that way. But, you know what? I have emotional pain from my past, too. And, after my awful divorce, I didn’t date for over a year, because I knew it would not be good for me, but also not for someone else either. I didn’t want to hurt them or me.
So, regardless of the emotional scars we all may carry, we still have a choice to treat others with respect and decency. So, if someone uses their pain as an excuse to behave badly, I think that makes them an AC. I’m just sayin’.
Good post Nicole,
I don’t know why so many guys have problems just coming out and saying they want out. It’s so cowardly to act this way.
A clean break is one thing, you know it’s over. But this occassional dropping into your life to say ‘hi’…I don’t know it’s a lack of impulse control or just because they’re 100% keeping you on the fringe they think you are 100% happy with it as well.
Thanks, Eve. I always enjoy reading your comments. You have such a no-nonsense way of putting things.
OMG, I think we dated the same guy! Why can’t they just say they want out? My assclown rushed in, started acting like a boyfriend from day one, this went on for months then, little by little, he starts backing away. Finally, I ask what the status of the relationship was and he tells me that I imagined the whole thing – that we were just friends and if I misunderstood, he was sorry. I was devastated and confused and he finally came clean, admitted he had chased me, had started something but later decided he didn’t want to pursue it and was trying to take the easy way out. I then got the friend line and suddenly he was back to answering emails right away and blowing hot again. That lasted three emails before I went NC and have stayed that way for 9 weeks now.
Why can’t these ACs just grow a pair and say they want out when they do? Mine actually told me he had decided he wanted out weeks before he actually told me but never bothered to tell me…he thought he could just touch me less, email a little less often and I would “get the message”. That’s an assclown. Couldn’t commit to yes but really couldn’t commit to no either. I was graciously offered a spot on the harem and was offered the role of “filler” for those times when he couldn’t find a woman he wanted to pursue. That’s an assclown.
I think it comes down to these guys auditioning girls for “the one”. The second he decides you aren’t “the one”, he starts blowing cold but doesn’t have the guts or the compassion to just say so, so he keeps you around for an ego stroke and as an option, in case he can’t find “the one”. I have to wonder how many women in his harem are hanging in there, hoping that one day they might get to be “the one”. Glad I finally saw him for what he was, got some of my self-esteem back and won’t be joining the harem. Assclown!!
The one I knew (and see here and there right now) always held one girl out of the harem out as his “one and only,” or “public,” girlfriend…but he dated her only every few weeks, too! But he was sensitive to any sort of remarks, mention, questionsing, you-name-it of her. Once he got her back, he’d be looking at others (including me, and when I was very serious with someone) again! He ended up marrying her 4 1/2 years after their first big huge break-up (which caused his 1-year-plus period of dating around, which included dating me AND another mutual friend!).
She (his once-upon-a-time on-again, off-again gf, now-wife) had boundaries when she dated him, yes, in that she’d tell him to f*** off when his behavior became very bad (looking at other women, for ex.), BUT she cooked for him, took care of household renovations for him, had sex with him, etc., as well. So I don’t get how this woman became the chosen one.
You won’t miss the guy. Ever. But the unanswered questions do make you wonder, “Why her?” Not even why her and not me. Just “WHY HER?”
So he may choose out of the harem. But the choice won’t make any sense! It even goes against what they SAY they want sometimes! Which is crazy! Also, the chosen one will ALWAYS wonder wher she stands. Which sucks in and of itself.
Dear Used,
I know what you mean. I don’t have any definitive answers but I think it stems from the fact that whoever else he messed around with, she was always the “official” – even pre- the marriage, she had the role of the long-suffering wife.
She was the one who made, at least, certain demands of him; she was not letting him go and she wasn’t going anywhere either; she would see the rest come and go but she was the permanent fixture; there comes a point that it’s less to trouble to marry her than to continue to avoid it – and after she put up with so much for so long, she would be making it more than clear to him (probably just after he had over-stepped the mark big time and she was fuming about it) that she expected the wedding ring and the shopping bag as compensation for all her trouble – and she was permanent and ‘official’ anyway, so…
I your case he definitely is an assclown who broke up with you (and lots of other people), and just because he didn’t break up with her – the ‘chosen one’, doesn’t make him less of an assclown – just be glad he chose her; she got the pig in a poke.
I think it’s time we worried more about what we choose – what’s important is our choices – our “chosen one” – not theirs.
Fearless–
Thank you for your answer and answers.
Well, I was the one who broke up with him, via his seeing me with someone else.
He broke up with her only about 3-4 mos. after they got back together (the first time they got back together after their big huge break-up) JUST AFTER his best friend came to see me on business AND to ask (VERY round-aboutedly) about why “we” had ended.
To this day, he goes out of his way to be in my “line of vision” to get me to talk to him. I don’t budge. HIs wife has CAUGHT HIM checking me out big-time.
Because I always run into him I do wonder:
1. “WHY HER”? Esp. b/c I know that, when single, he bragged about dating x (me), y (a mutual friend), z, a, b, and c. NAMING all of us to another friend;
2. why did he cause all of this mess with women he KNEW he’d be running into all of the time later on, when married (to whomever he’d marry)?
3. why date others (AT ALL) when he had the “official” one? Especially when he knew that we all ran in the same (or similar) social circles!
You have good insight. Your opinion/answers would be appreciated.
I just don’t get people like this! Yes, he is the pig, as you say! Good expression: pig in a poke!
If you’re confused about what went down ie: “am I crazy ? was he normal about it?” and it’s all jumbled up, look at his behaviour leading up to the end. There is probably some bad behaviour on both parts but if you’re wondering if it’s “all you”…that crazymaking thought….ask yourself: Is he an addict? is he a liar? does he have “psychos” for exes? was he honest, or deceptive? did he blow cold and then hot? etc. Puts my mind at ease every time.
All these people just saying ‘leave it’, you do realise that ‘love’, or whatever you want to call it is a chemical reaction/emotion. It doesn’t just switch off and on, it does take time to get out of your system, like quitting anything with an addictive quality there is only so much achieved by say ‘tough get over it.’
This blog comes on a day when I am trying to figure out if I can be friends with him. I broke things off last November and didn’t stick with the no contact rule. After two months of no contact he called and I answered, he says we were always meant to be friends and we messed things up by trying to be lovers. I just don’t see things the same as he does. What I am trying to come to terms with is whether I can handle being his friend.
I think if you even need to think about whether you can handle being his friend should tell you all you need to know. How will you feel when he’s telling you about his new gf? Do you have any fantasy thoughts about getting back together?
For me because I never got the answers I felt I deserved and so much that should have been said wasn’t I would find it very difficult at playing lets be friends.
I have my pride.
Eve,
He did tell me he was on his way to a friends house because I asked him, I thought once I could handle his talking about his other relationships that I could truly be his friend but the conversation made me feel jealous. He is not trying to hurt me, he is trying to be a true friend it is me that can’t seem to transition into friendship. I keep feeling like I am going through the breakup continually. Once I think I have moved forward I find myself right back to square one and it is not him, he stays true to his word, he never crosses the line, I just wish I could be the same way. Silly I know. Thank you for your comment.
Michelle, Eve is absolutely right.
You are ‘obviously’ struggling with the concept of being his friend, for a reason. So it seems that you are very much not ready. If you are not ready, why do you feel the need to do so.
Because he says so? Because you are afraid you might lose him as ‘a friend’ if you don’t? Because you hope that it will turn from pure friendship to something more when he finally comes to his senses and realises you are the one?
Be true to yourself…… like Eve said, you don’t need to play at being ‘friends’ when that is not how you feel and it is obviously weighing you down. It definitely takes time…….. if ever.
Sometimes people come into your life, things happen and things end. You are meant to step forward into the next phase of your journey WITHOUT them at that point. That is what allows new people in…..to give us new experiences.
Don’t traumatise yourself. If you are struggling with friendship then you are not ready to be. Just listen to yourself and go with it.
Enlightened,
Thanks, I know you are right.
Y’know what’s a bit of a test – not that anyone should need to…you’re ‘friends’….what do you think his answer would be if you suggested to hook up?
By that I mean does he consider you a friend who is a friend, i.e. OFF limits sexually OR after a drink or two she might be up for it if I’m bored.
Which is why I don’t consider ex-ac to be a friend to me. Because we were always one stupid message away from, I’m feeling bored, I wonder what they’re doing?….And as long as that’s in anyones mind there is zero chance of anything like a normal friendship. I’m not sure I would want to be.
Eve,
That is not a test for him at all, although he assures me that he is very attracted to me and that he enjoyed the sexual aspect of our relationship he will not cross the line to have sex because if he does so he knows it will ruin the friendship we are trying to build. I am the one that would jump right into sex, not him. I am a mess for sure….
I think it also depends on whether you think he’s got the sorts of qualities that you’d want in a friend, whether you’d think you’d both get more than just a sense of both being good people (ie absolution), how practical it is, whether everything could be on the table, whether you can rely on him, but not expect more than what a friend should reasonably give…
I agree with Eve! As NML said if they were an asshole to you as a boyfriend, they’ll be an asshole to you as a friend. In the case of the two EUM I had serious feelings for, one I pursued a disasatrous painful ambiguous friendship with that ended with my self esteem in tatters and took forever to recover from. The other one who I just got in to NC with this week wanted to keep in touch at first but then didn’t when I suspect he saw that he had no effect on me. These EUM are often incapable of treating you correctly. They may have other friends they can treat well but it will probably not be you. It’s what is so frustrating with the last EUM for me, everyone thinks he is this amazing guy, but he put me in this gray zone where I wasn’t treated like a girlfriend or as a friend. I was just treated bizzarely and quite badly. I’m letting go, but it’s still difficult to let go of some of the things he did and said.
Hi Michelle,
It’s good you’re being so honest. If you think/feel you’re likely to fall in to bed with this guy or imagine your self esteem if you throw yourself at this guy and he says no!
If there’s amorous feelings from either side, once you’re an ex-I think it would be very tricky trying to be friends.
Eve,
It is tricky being friends and what is confusing to me is that I don’t normally feel this way. I was married almost 21 years and have remained friends with my ex-husband, of course we have four children together and it was very important to maintain some sort of normal for them. Throughout the years after the divorce I have worked to build the relationship between him, his wife and my family and we all get along very well. I have dated now for 7 years, many different types of men and when it was over I walked away, sometimes it was a little harder than others but I moved on quickly and if any of our paths would cross I would be able to wish them joy in their life. With this man that I can’t seem to figure out what to do, I honestly have never connected to another human being on such a deep level and he feels the same, he just feels we were always meant to be friends. With this sort of connection my brain keeps telling me if we only tried hard enough we could be partners, his brain tells him that we tried hard enough and it just didn’t work. I want to be on the same page as him, I just can’t seem to get a grip and realize that I will always be no more than a friend to him and he will always be no less than a love for me. Now it is a matter of whether I am willing to face this truth and be his friend or to walk away from the only person that I have ever connected too in such a way. I know the answer seems so simple to all of you but it isn’t quite so simple for me. While these blogs help me realize that I am not being real with myself, I still struggle.
Hey Michelle,
Yes, it is a struggle. And I think many of us know how much easier it can be to tell others the best course of action, but when it comes down to it, we all struggle to take our own advice. I think that is the point of this site. For us to be able to hear the truth from each other that we cannot clearly see for ourselves.
Believe me, I know first-hand, because I tried to stay friends with my ex. The mistake I made was trying to be friends straight away, while the break-up was still fresh. I really believe there has to be a time apart for you to grieve the loss of the romantic relationship, before you will be able to move into a truly platonic friendship. And the only way you will know when you are ready for that, is if you can be his friend, even if he has a new girlfriend.
It doesn’t sound like you are in that place right now. I wasn’t either, and the whole time, I would be reading into every word and action, trying to figure out if he still had feelings for me. Or listening for clues or hints as to whether he was dating anyone new or not. It drove me crazy, and I made myself miserable.
I don’t think your choice right now has to be all or nothing. If you were meant to be friends, then some time apart will not harm that. And if he truly is a friend to you, he will understand your need for it.
It is definitely not a simple choice, nor will it be easy. But then again, in the long run, whatever friendship you could have had will be doomed to failure if you try to continue it while you still want more.
Michelle,
I think the important thing here is to ask yourself why you feel such a deep connection with someone who cannot give you what you want. Think about this. This man has told you he can only be your friend and each time you are with him and long for him to be more it will erode your self esteem and make you feel like …..what is wrong with me that he doesnt want me in that way
Michelle, sorry about that! Something technical happened and the reply was sent before I could finish……really, just wanted to add that like yourself I am divorced and am friendly with my ex and until my EUM had only had healthy, functional relationships which seems to be the case with you until you met this man. I have been no contact for eight months now after a relationship which shocked me to the core because it was unhealthy and dysfunctional and I had never been involved in anything like it before. I had to ask myself some pretty searching questions as to what getting involved with someone like this guy said about myself, as in, how BAD must l feel about myself to be with someone like this .Perhaps the same with you. Why waste your precious time on someone who for whatever reason cannot give you want you want – you are certainly worth more than that. Just a thought – wish you all the luck in the world, we are all sisters here, trying to work out ways to moving forward and away from abusive relationships.
Michelle – third post !! I see the first one which got posted half way through finished on an ambiguous note – what I wanted to add after saying ……you are feeling what is wrong with me that he doesnt want to be with me in this way…..is there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with you – HE is just not right for YOU,and perhaps you will be able to be friends with him when you have found the man who IS right for you. x
Lucy,
Thanks so much for your post. I am truly working on moving forward with my life, I am involving myself if social activities, I am volunteering, I am spending as much time as possible with my children, working two jobs and trying to act as if my life is somewhat normal if there is such a thing. Most days I am good the smile on my face is genuine and then suddenly I crash and burn and usually it is because I know he will never be nor does he want to be the right man for me. I know that he genuinely cares for me, I know that he keeps my best interests in mind, he asks nothing of me but my friendship in return and most of the time I deeply appreciate his friendship. I do see a counselor and she does force to see things differently then I do and asks some pretty tough questions.
Hi Michelle, Just a thought ,but do you think it would be a good idea to not see this guy while you are working on yourself with your counsellor ? The thing is that if he is a true friend he will understand, you need the distance. Distance gives you perspective and you can see things that you otherwise wouldnt see, which is why NO CONTACT eventually becomes so effective. I am a buddhist and one of my buddhist friends said something very interesting to me about my relationship with the dysfunctional guy, she said maybe there was something in my karma that I had to sort out and didnt know about but which he activated. actually, it turns out she was right, it has been a painful road but i have discovered that through being with this person, who, by the way like you with your friend, I felt the deepest connection to a man I have ever felt in my life, nothing is more empowering than getting to the place when you can be authentic with yourself. and truely know that you are worth love, care, consideration and respect. I also found counselling a real help and I am sure you will too. Good luck and stay strong. x
Lucy & Nicole,
Thank you both for your encouraging words, I am doing much better this morning. I know that both of you are very wise and are telling me the things I already know deep within myself. Now it is a matter of finding courage and doing what I know is the right thing to get me to a healthy place.
Michelle
I think you have to learn to trust your instincts on whether someone is being an assclown or just needing to leave. My instincts told me mine was an AC. It was hard to stand by my convictions, stand by me, up for me and not let me down. Especially since my AC plays the “I never meant to do anything intentially, I’m just the good sweet guy” routine. In fact he lies, manipulates and is completly selfish. All blame was left with me. It’s a person who never accepts responsibilty. He showed that right from the begining (hindsight is a wonderful thing) in the relationship, as friends, while I did nc and to this day. His latest? As most readers no I have the fun task of working with my x. He blew hot and cold, dumped me, threw the friend card, still blew hot and cold, tried to manipulate me while I did nc, chased me 4 who knows what for 10 months and the final straw? As if seeing thus numskull 5 days a week hasn’t been enough, tiring for me to get through he has now moved into the same neighborhood where we will use all the same shops, transport and so forth. Yet he doesnt get why I’d find that upsetting or annoying when the weekends were my only down time.
Girls and guys you always no deep down when someone is an AC, look at the whole picture and stand by your feelings, don’t let them tell you otherwise. I was actually worried that because I was so hurt that I was demonising him. I wasn’t, he is just a very selfish, manipulating AC with a tonne of baggage.
The more you start to trust your instincts the more confident you will grow and that helps to make better choices. Stand by you !! Be your own best friend and no matter what happens, who leaves, you will be ok, no matter what.
Take care 🙂
‘Girls and guys you always no deep down when someone is an AC, look at the whole picture and stand by your feelings, don’t let them tell you otherwise. I was actually worried that because I was so hurt that I was demonising him. I wasn’t, he is just a very selfish, manipulating AC with a tonne of baggage.
The more you start to trust your instincts the more confident you will grow and that helps to make better choices. Stand by you !! Be your own best friend and no matter what happens, who leaves, you will be ok, no matter what.’
Never a truer word spoken, Trinity. Couldn’t have put it better.
This was interesting to me. I had been told that someone I saw briefly was not an AC because the interaction was short. As if you can’t be and AC over the course of a short time. So he was allowed to be just dating casually and I misunderstood.
But I know he was because I dated other people for a short period of time who were open and honest about where they were (in love with someone else, not interested in long distance etc). While those people were not interested, I never felt they were an ACs. I was sad, yes, but I had enough expressed info in both words and actions that I could make a choice and had no one to blame but myself.
In this case I could see the AC behavior in:
A. Coming on strong and them backing away
B, Not communicating the status but by acting passive aggressively and meanly until I ended it
C. Suggesting medium term plans and not following through
Was he a bad guy? No. In fact, I am not sure he knew how to communicate better. But that is why I ended it when I asked the right questions (and that I should have done sooner). But that does not mean he was not an AC.
You can use your compass on if he is an AC. If every man you have ever dated is considered and AC, you may want to think about:
A. Why am I with people I think are ACs?
B. Were they all ACs?
If you have people that feel like they were different because you felt jerked around during the interaction, and others did not, then maybe you were with an AC. Even if for a short interaction – not relationship.
Whenever I start to wonder, “was he an assclown?” I recall the last text I got from him after I cursed him out, then hung up on him when he told me he was seeing someone else. This was a month after we broke up, and he admitted to my suspicions that I had voiced towards the end of our relationship. He was forced to tell me because we all work together, and I’d find out soon enough. His last text said, “I’m really, really sorry. I don’t expect you to ever forgive me.” How’s that for assclownery?
@ Michelle. Don’t do it. Just move on. Your instincts are already telling you it’s wrong that’s why your questioning things. Should I! Shouldn’t I? Just don’t, u will be better off.
“In this case I could see the AC behavior in:
A. Coming on strong and them backing away
B, Not communicating the status but by acting passive aggressively and meanly until I ended it
C. Suggesting medium term plans and not following through”
@Tallgirl10, you have described my ex-AC exactly!
I also had a somewhat short relationship with my ex-AC. In fact I tried the “friend” thing afterwards for twice the amount of time I actually spent dating him. And guess what? He was an asshole boyfriend, and probably an even bigger asshole friend. He still blew hot and cold, tried to keep tabs on me, who I was with, what I was doing. Talked about plans, but didn’t follow through. He was even still passive-aggressive in the friendship, not expressing if he was mad about something, just freezing me out.
So, apparently it wasn’t the romance or commitment issues that were causing him to act that way. That is just who he was!
Nicole – your experiences are helpful. I am friends or at least on friendly terms with all of my exes, so this latest guy – my first official AC (geez, he became mean in the end!) – represents my first attempt at cutting someone completely out of my life. When I think of how he talked about his friends, his female friends and exes in particular who were all apparently on the spectrum of selfish and dramatic to crazy to ruining his life, and take your experiences into account, I figure that he probably wouldn’t be an especially worthy or decent friend anyway…Makes it easier to know that NC is probably a permanent thing for me on this one.
Y’know what I find fascinating? How we all use the reset button. The times I feel I’ve been pressed to tell the ex-ac to get lost & occassionally get harsh about it and his ability to ignore basically me calling him a shit. For a brief time I took this as a sign of being interested, I mean, would you stick around if someone was telling you off? 🙂 I know wouldn’t. There are so many variables, in one ear out the other, switching off or just so used to women complaining it has zero impact…but when it comes down to it. Both of us reset button, reset button, reset button. It’s not healthy.
It is one week tomorrow since the final dumping and end of communication and it is true he is not an ass clown because of the way he dumped me fair enough but he is an assclown how he did it mind you I was there participating right along with him..
His reasons were sound his execution was misleading to say the least I should have seen it coming because I have been down this road with him before so some positives from this time to last time I am determined to make no contact about me not him as i did on the previous occasion I was pathetic for six months throwing myself at him making myself available living on crumbs and it was painful and finally I did see the need for no contact but he came back and because it wasn’t about me just a waiting game really I was weak got right back into it believed him that he had changed…
This time I don’t want to hang around and be pathetic so I have cut contact from last week after one or two foot stamping texts which even as I pressed send realised how futile they were.. yes it hurts but i really am hoping this time I can move on and leave him in the past I have deleted contact numbers thankfully because I have already wanted to send angry disgruntled texts and he is not worth it..
I know I have a way to travel before I can yes he out of my system there is no going back he has already asked me if we could just continue on a sex basis and also if things don’t work out for him say in 6 months time would I come back… I seriously hope not for my sake ..
He wants you to hang around for six months in case things don’t worth out?
That’s downright insulting. You’re not an air stewardess on standyby!
I meant to say WORK out. It’s too early in the morning for me.
Thanks Grace the way I have been though probably was worth him trying that one out on me… Heres to change and everyday to try and find some blessing as to why we have no contact.
Was too something for me I was meant to say in my earlier post I cannot fault his reasons for ending things and that didn’t make him an assclown it was the way in which he did it misleading etc. that makes him an assclown
Dear Used,
I will be brief as poos, as I am aware of ‘going of topic’ etc…. Re your 3 “why” points (above Aug 29th):
Why is he behaving like an assclown?… Because he’s an assclown.
Why her?…. Why not her?
Why shag all these women who all know eachother?… because he can.
Why is he still giving you the eye? Because he thinks you’re still interested. He’s not wrong
(no offence intended).
Fearless–
Well, he didn’t shag me. And he didn’t shag my friend, either. He married the woman who he DID shag (despite abandoning her after she gave it to him, and despite his own protestations against “easy”/desperate women); your first answer explains why this happened, though.
I am sure that he thinks that we are ALL (me and my friend who did date him, as well as other women we all know in common!) interested in him. After all, the other women work against each other (as an ex.: my own best friend ignoring me when he and wifey are around!) when he is somehow involved.
I appreciate how you answered my questions in light of how HE would look at it all.
Why not her? She is HEINOUS. Sorry, but true.
Fearless–
Well, first, neither I nor my friend slept with him. Also, despite his looking at women who WOULD sleep with anyone before marriage as “loose,” he married the girl who DID give it to him! (Hence my saying in my first comment above that these guys’ actions are crazy.)
Second, I am SURE that he thinks that ALL of us–mutual friends, exes, etc.–are interested in him! After all, all of the women (except me) are clawing each other’s eyes out to make each other look bad, and to look bad to him especially!
Back to topic: yes, based on your reasoning (that she was always suffering with him), he IS (still) an AC, despite his having treated her (the “official”) “better” than the rest.
Third, why not her? Because she is HEINOUS!!! If he dated muitual friends “because he can,” as you say, then you’d think that he “can” do better, period! I think her ugliness ironically makes the WOMEN feel better about themselves! Makes them think, “Wow. A guy like that (decent looking, great job) might like me, too!”
We are our own worst enemies. My own former best friend even ignored me once–in front of my loved ones!!–when he and wifey are around! SHE contributes to making me look interested! I kicked her to the curb a long time ago now. Never looked back.
Well i am so glad i found Natalie’s site, it has helped me enormously.
I dont know if my ex was an EUM or AC perhaps someone would advise me.
After my hubby died aftr 40 happy years of marriage i was lost and put myself on a dating site. I was contacted by my recent ex who swept me off my feet and showered me with expensive gifts, put me on a pedestal, treated me like a princess and told me he was going to ‘build my life around you’. Of course, being off the man market for years i had no idea about other men!
The first year was fantastic, we found we were so compatible together especially physically and had a great time together. He did want to move into my home but i refused as i did not feel ready to have anyone to live with me so soon after my hubby had died..
Into the second year, he started to become a little distant towards me and
disrespectful towards me, especially in public where he would pass nasty, cruel comments on occasion and try to belittle me etc.
Then, recently, the third year we were together (this year) i found out quite by chance he has been cheating on me for 14 months with a co-worker who knew nothing about myself, nor i her. She was as shocked as i was and i have backed out of the equation. It is unforgiveable to me that he did not have the decency to finish our relationship before starting another with her. I can now see how stressed he was by leading a double life as on occasion he used to say his head felt ’empty’.
He tells me the other person has ‘gone’ but i wonder if she has. It doesnt really matter anyway as i would never take him back again even though i have an idea he may try to make contact once more at some time in the future..
I may seem quite upbeat writing this posting but i have been so upset, cried buckets over this man, wondered what i had done to deserve treatment like this and hope that as time passes i shall recover my self-esteem and my usually outgoing nature. He has stripped away all that i believed men were having once had a good one. It has put me off trying once more to be honest.
Does this man seem like an EUM or an AC?
Yes, cheating on someone for 14 months, with neither of you knowing about the other takes an expert level of deception. I’m calling AC.
I am calling AC too. What a despicable man.
It’s a sore lesson, susiejay; I feel for you. You were vulnerable and trusting and he took advantage. You are right, that it doesn’t matter if he is still seeing the other woman now or not… and dating sites are a minefield; why not try just meeting some decent folk who are looking for good company (and Mr decent guy may be one of them!) – my mum was widowed 3 years ago; she is young at heart, sprightly and sociable – she’s now going Scottish country dancing every week and it sounds like such good fun, I am thinking of tagging along! Try new things – whatever takes your fancy – where fun happens and like-minded folk hang out…is all I’m saying.
Take care x
Thank you Grace and Fearless and yes, he is a despicable man he must have known i was still grieving for my late hubby as i did tell him i was recently widowed and he acted sympathetic initially. We did have some great times and he bought me so many things both personal and for the home, took me on holidays etc, but i would have preferred for him to be a faithful man and not had these ‘gifts’ if you see what i mean.
The worst thing was he disappeared on me for 15 days before Christmas 2009 without any argument, just out of the blue, but then returned on Christmas Eve to tell me he loved me, although he had told me preiously he did not know what ‘love’ was and asked me to explain it to him. He then told me he had a wedding invite for the summer and when i was asking what i should wear, he told me i was not invited! He said he was going with a nephew and his 2 sons and there was no room in the car for me. Hows that for a steadfast partner, going to a wedding without you by his side?
It later turned out that his co-worker (the OW) was the one who went with him and her two sons (she told me herself when she discovered my existence) which made it even more painful to me. Not only was he having an affair i did not know about, he was rubbing my nose in it!
I immediately ended my contact with him which was July, so early days, but once he knew the OW had told me all about his cheating with her his attitude was disgusting towards me, he said he………wait for this……had tried to GET RID of me at Christmas!! Well, i only wish he had told me then, because it would have saved me so much pain and hurt as i am now experiencing.
Yes, i shall get out and about and i am an outgoing person, but its a lesson i have learned the hard way never to be complacent and not to give my heart
away so easily in future. Thanks for reading and commenting.
susiejay
Yes, he’s a rotter. Soon as “there’s no room in the car for you” there’s no room in your life for him. Wishing you all good things. x
My guy was my friend for years. We hung out and even lived together with another friend platonically for awhile. I fell for him even though I knew he had a history of dating a lot of women. He knew I was the kind of girl that thought sex was special but as soon as I told him I had feeling for him we had sex that night. It was the first time for me in two years. I loved it and I was so excited about all the possibilities. For a week or so things seemed fine. Then we went out of town for one night and after we got back he did not contact me for a week? I e-mailed him telling him that I could see that it was not going any where and would move on but then he e-mailed me wanting to talk. He said he cared for me deeply but was conflicted and unsure he was ready for a relationship. We agreed to date but he still blew me off.
I began to act desperate and wrote him erotic e-mails trying to keep him interested. We kept hooking up here and there but the hanging out and dating all stopped. He was at times attentive but other times he acted distant. He is a musician and always has a lot of other women around but prior to all of this he always gave me a lot of attention. That all stopped. We had planned a trip for a week at a beach house with two other friends and family prior to our hooking up and I told him at the beach house that I could not see him anymore after this because I needed to protect my heart. Except for a few more erotic e-mails and text I stood by this no contact rule until we ran into each other one night. He was so excited to see me and then he started texting and we hung out a couple of times. He was flirty again and I was back to wanting to be with him again. I agreed to help him with a fundraiser and one of the days while I was cleaning the kitchen he came up behind me and was kissing me and well it all started agian. BUT GUESS WHAT! Yeah! he went cold again?? This time I called him and broke down crying asking him why? Why did you pull me back just to push me away again. This is when I realized I had only become and option to him. I was addicted to him but he was addicted to sex and women. I also realized that this was just an ego stroke to him. I finally asked him to spell it out and to tell me if he had any intentions of having a future with me. He said he cared for me but wanted me to move on and be happy. I told him to never contact me agian not even a text. I told him to delete everything I sent him and that we could not be frineds. It has been 7 days and I heard that he is already seeing another girl. Probibly even before all of this happened. I know I have a part in all of this. I should not have tried to keep him hostage with sexual e-mails and I should have listen to his words instead of wanting to be with him so bad I rationalized everything and made sand castles in the clouds. At times I think I was just delusional. I guess what hurts the most is that I feel like he does not even care. I feel like I was just an option! AN OPTION! I put him as a possible forever and I was just an OPTION! It still hurts but I know I have to just move on, but I still have that dam need to want to know if he even cares or thinks of me? I know I know… He is non-of-my business anymore!
Dear Lisa,
I completely understand you, as I’m going through a similar story. The only difference is that we haven’t slept together, but it’s still a continuous push & pull “entertainment show”. I got the advice to “run and don’t look back” from some ladies on this site. For me it’s hard, because him and I are part of a youth organization (that is also how we met), we see each other regularly, and we have lots of mutual friends and activities together. Things happened pretty fast between us: we didn’t start off as just friends – it was mutual attraction from the first moment. I still remember his face when he first saw me… ;-D Things went strange a week or so after our first kissing & cuddling session, when he started blowing hot & cold, just like your guy. So, I decided to move on, despite the fact that I still had feelings for him, and I told him so. This, however, was a blow to his ego, and sometimes he acts as if I was the one to push him away. Now we are technically just friends, but there still are some strange things going on: occasional flirting, strange/cryptic Facebook updates, etc. No erotic messsages though, but he’s posting lot of photos of him at the beach, and he’s just gorgeous! Anyway… 🙂 I wish you to be strong, and please keep your fingers crossed for me too. I don’t want to “give in”, although I’m only human! 😉 xx
Hi Sandra,
I just read your story. This year I met a guy at work that acted just like yours. The first time he saw me, I too could sense the attraction. He initiated the conversations, changed his schedule so we would both leave at the same time, asked me lots of questions, seems interested in knowing more about me, asked me for my phone number, lots of flirting involved. Well, this kept on for almost three months. After we kissed guess what? He started blowing hot and cold too. Somedays he talked to me, other days he didn’t, He started making excuses for everything, but oh yes, if he saw me, he would try to kiss me or hug me.
After three weeks of this I did the same thing you did. I told him that we would be better off as friends. Now when he sees me, he sometimes says hello, but for the most part, he looks at me angrily or completely ignores me. The first 4-5 weeks I felt really said, but I did what Natalie suggested (NC) and I can tell you it really works. Now I don’t care if he talks or doesn’t talk (we work in the same floor, so I know it’s difficult at first).
Time made me realize that there were lots of red flags (never invited me to lunch, never made plans to see me after work, never invited me to go out in the weekends (although he kept asking if I had anything to do). I don’t know about yours, but later I found out he was daiting 3-4 girls at the same time. He has a girlfriend now, but he’s behavior is completely weird. Believe me, someone who acts offended like he does when I did nothing wrong (he was the one blowing hot and cold) doesn’t deserve the time of day.
Be strong and follow Natalie’s advice. Better that you have found out now how he really is than later on. It does make one mad, but at least you didn’t waste your time with him. Good luck to you.
These men fall out with you when you stop massaging their egos for them – and their egos are so large they need more than one woman on the job!
He has to be offended because he was willing to scatter the crumbs of his attention on the floor for your benefit and you stopped clucking after him to eat it all up, so just who the hell do you think you are! 🙂
Thanks for your stories and your advice, girls! 😉
@ Jennyana: With workmates I think it’s even harder, because you spend 8 hours (or even more?) each day in the same place. Plus, there’s the risk of him ruining your concentration on the job. Well, at least I hope you don’t have many tasks to share!
As for red flags, the only one I can think of is that one of our friends made a joke about “his large number of girlfrriends”. Now, every joke has some seed of truth in it, and I don’t think someone would made that joke about a serious, monogamous person. :-/ So yeah, he might be dating several girls at once, and a few weeks ago he told us he was back together with an ex, but I somehow think it’s not true, and that he told us that because I was there, and he wanted to see if I was jealous. But, surprise: I didn’t have any reaction! 😀
@ Fearless: You are soooo right! And, believe it or not, the night we first kissed, we had this talk about how he admires people who can make themselves respected, and don’t let the others walk all over them. So, I guess he admires them only when the other person involved is not him! 🙂
I was just gonna ask: is any of your guys a Leo? 😀
@Fearless – you are so funny!! I giggle every time I read you analogies. Thank God for laughter – it is so healing!
@Sandra81
Mine’s a Capricorn in Colorado.
Sandra81 – my ex is a leo – why?
Aimee – mine lives in Colorado too….never going there agian!!!!
@Aimee
Happy to be of service…cluck cluck!
Thank you Lisa, for telling your story. It is so similar to mine, and though my heart breaks for you, there is something comforting in knowing that I am not the only one.
@ Ramona – because my assclown is a Leo too, not in Colorado, but in Milan, Italy. That’s where the “love story” is based! 🙂
@Aimee – Good to hear from you again! I’m still working to follow your advice, to run and don’t look back! I’m still hanging tough! 😉
Hi Sandra81,
Leos are supposed to be loyal and trustworthy I thought……
Good girl – you can do this!!!
Hi everyone,
@Sandra. Mine is a Gemini from the East Coast. We do work on the same floor, but not on the same projects.
@Fearless. Loved your comment. You are so right. They are mad and offended because we are not chasing after them.