“She’s got a really important job”
“They travel a lot”
“They’re just insanely busy”
“He said he hasn’t had five minutes”
You know, I’m not disputing that being busy is a very real experience, but as excuses go for why you’re letting someone off the hook for being emotionally and physically unavailable in your relationship, not making an effort, and keeping you on the fringes of their lives while you wait for your ‘time slot’, it’s actually pretty pathetic.
Not only are they using a lame excuse to manage down your expectations or to even passive aggressively communicate that they want out or that things are casual, but when you use this as an excuse, you’re talking yourself into managing down your own expectations.
You’re a valuable person in your own right deserving of love, care, trust, respect as well as time and effort. How can a relationship progress, experience commitment and intimacy, plus have balance and consistency if someone is pleading off with the modern day equivalent of “Oh sorry, not tonight love, I’ve got a headache”?
– So they’re so busy that they couldn’t find two minutes in their day to pick up the phone?
– They’re so important that you’re not important?
– If they’re travelling a lot, why bother?
– They’re ‘insanely busy’? Doing what? Saving the world? Running a country? Helping the hungry and the poor?- They haven’t had five minutes? Wow. I bet they’ve found 5 minutes to sleep, use the bathroom, hang around on Facebook.
Being super-duper-busy all the time whether it’s them offering it up as an excuse or you’re making the excuse for them, is a rather big hint – it’s telling you that they don’t have time for the relationship and certainly don’t have time to meet your hopes and expectations, so you should be making an exit and moving on to someone and something where you’re more valued and not in their ‘queue’.
You’re like a plane circling above them waiting for relationship traffic control to give you your slot. “Permission to land in the shag lane” and “Permission to land for dinner and an ego stroke”.
When I ‘dated’ – and my goodness I use this term loosely – the guy who gave me my epiphany on unavailable relationships, he was always telling me how busy he was. I used to call him Busy Bee and he would go on and on and on. “Wow… you must be really important at work…” and “How do you cope with such a hectic schedule?” After a while he realised that I was mocking him and would at least muster up some embarrassment when I’d refer to him as Busy Bee. I even asked him if he was working for MI5 or running a country that I was unaware of.
I don’t buy busy. I’m not saying that people don’t have busy lives but using it as an excuse for why you don’t make an effort is bullshit. Behind every excuse is the real reason and the real reason is that aside from considering themselves to be ‘super-important’, they also don’t want to make the effort. Whatever they’re busy at is a crutch and it’s one that they cling on to that prevents them from getting ‘too’ intimate and ‘too’ committed ensuring that they don’t have ‘too many’ responsibilities.
It’s not about you though. I wouldn’t go thinking that your inadequacies are what are causing them to fill up their schedule. It’s not about them making time for the ‘right’ person; it’s about them not only being available but also having the decency and a reined in enough ego to not actually think that it’s acceptable to treat someone in this manner.
They’re just not that special but on top of this, they just don’t know how to come correct and say “You know what? I’m not truly available for the type of relationship you want or deserve.” Instead, they hang around enjoying the fringe benefits of a relationship on their terms and their schedule. Often if you tell them to hop it, they make themselves temporarily available and then gradually ease things back to their comfort zone.
There are many people who work very hard because they’re busy building up a company, studying or on the fast track in their career, but there are also people who act like they’re ‘critical’ and work very long hours because it helps them to avoid their feelings, themselves, and even relationships. Shock horror, but there have been people who have founded companies, built them up, studied, been on the fast track of their career and many other things, who have also found and made the time for a relationship.
And you know, if you’re in this situation, it’s a good time to ask yourself just what you think they’re busy doing and how if you’re already making excuses for their busyness and writing yourself out of the relationship that you deserve, do you expect to actually have a full on relationship with this person that will actually go anywhere?
They’re just not that busy and they’re just not that special that you should be “Oh little old me must wait around patiently because they’re so important and busy”.
It can be very easy to buy into the whole ‘super-busy’ excuse if one or both parents didn’t have time for you, or you got lost in the shuffle of being one of several children, or had a parent who travelled or you had to do ‘visits’. My own Mr Unavailable father was so ‘busy’ that most visitations were spent with us sitting on the side of a cricket pitch and then when we were flown halfway across the world to see him, he was ‘out’ (as in socialising not working…). You can see how easy it was for me to think that not being a priority was normal.
You are deserving of being a priority and don’t let anyone tell you that being low on their todo list is what being a priority in their life looks like. Instead of waiting around for them to be less busy, it’s best that you make time for you and tell them that if they don’t have the time for even the basics right now, they surely don’t have time for a relationship. I know of lots of busy couples being busy together. You know what being a priority looks like – you talking about their busyness or them talking about it while you’re waiting around isn’t what being a priority or even being in a relationship looks or feels like.
Your thoughts?
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That’s true, when I want out of a relationship I talk about how “busy” I am. Guess I’ll realize that when others tell me how busy they are, it means they want out.
This is how I would do it – a few months ago I was attempting to date someone, and they were pulling the whole ‘Oh, I’m so busy with night shift, more night shift blah blah blah’ and making the BARE MINIMUM effort. I’d say, ‘let’s do something tomorrow’ and then this would blow out to like three days, and at the last minute they’d be like let’s go to X, so I’d go, then they’d ruin the whole thing by acting all tired ‘I had such a long day, got up at 4 am, blah blah blah’ and being such a weight to drag around. Horrible!
I’m so glad I read the signals and flushed this prospect after only 2 weeks. They didn’t get a shag either!! I rang up and said, ‘look you seem to be so busy, and I wouldn’t want to get in the way of your work, so I think we should stop seeing each other’. Win!
Oh, and they said ‘let’s be friends’ LOL. These guys are soooo predictable!
Even the night shift excuse is garbage. In my last proper relationship, my ex worked (and probably still works) the night shift. He still made time for me. We broke up somewhat amicably, and that was never an issue. So using the night shift as an excuse – goodbye.
This is me, the ex EUM and our relationshit. Every single word you write here Natalie is an exact description of what he did and what I tolerated and bought into and for exactly the reasons you say – I was ‘lost in the shuffle’ of a large family; my father worked seven days a week, fourteen hours a day (except for Sundays); my mother complained bitterly about the hours he put in. Being low on the priority list was perfectly normal for me – still is. I think I would find being ‘first in the queue’/high priority a very alien experience indeed; it would make me uncomfortable; it may even make me want to back off, I suspect. You get used to expecting very little by way of personal attention, so the EUM being the busiest man in the history of all all busy men didn’t seem very odd to me!
You’re right of course that “busy” excuse is a way to manage expectations – yes, very passive aggressive; it communicates the clear message that they want to keep it casual, do not want the responsibility or the commitment; they want to control the flow of engagement on their own terms. Not being completely stupid, I knew he was doing it and why, particularly over the course of time, it became as clear as day that he was just trying to keep his distance and not have me expect anything from him. I grew to really resent (even despise) him for it – and I despised myself for allowing it.
Two years of BR and nearly two years of distance from him and I can see how pathetic I was; If I still gave a shit I’d be embarrassed – but I can’t even be bothered with ’embarrassed’. I’m just glad I saw the light before I died! I guess I didn’t expect anything else from Mr Most Important. His time was more valuable than mine, he seemed to think, and I agreed with him. I don’t agree with him now!
This post is so spot on Natalie.
” I’m just glad I saw the light before I died!”
Profound!!!! 🙂
Fearless, I’ve also seen the light (just over 5 weeks of NC), but I’m actually feeling quite embarrassed (humiliated even). His busy excuse was one of the reasons why I decided to go NC. Towards the end of our “relationship” he would often use this excuse to avoid contact with me. I can see in hindsight that this was one of his (passive aggressive) ways of off-loading me. I didn’t take the hint initially because the “I’m really busy right now” was always accompanied by other statements that were conflicting, eg, he would sign off on emails as “always yours” or “thinking of you”, etc. The mixed messages eventually led me to seek clarification about our situation. I told him that I was confused as to why he remained in contact with me given he was always so busy. I suggested some space. He replied with “do what you think is best” but still signed off as “your man”. At the time I really wished he was my man, but I decided that NC was best! Perhaps this was a way for him to avoid responsibility or maybe he feared confrontation? Whatever, it definitely demonstrates an inability to deal straight with people which would have made this much less painful and less humiliating for me. Still, another lesson learned.
Ah Lilly – my “NC sister” – I can so relate to those mixed messages. I had almost the exact words you did – “sorry I haven’t texted or emailed you much today….but you were always on my mind, just like the song.” How corny and insulting! Or he would just text the words “thinking of you” and that was it – I would try to text back and start a conversation but he’d gone MIA. For hours. And I got the “I’m yours” too – sheesh, do they have a little handbook of crumb phrases to throw out to their FBG’s because they think they will keep us strung along?. What am I saying – they DID keep us strung along temporarily, or at least confused! But no longer, thank goodness. Here’s to week 6 of NC 🙂
Lilly,
I got all that as well – the ambiguous sign offs to his emails and texts. They do it to keep you ‘warm’ towards them but they never act on those words (they are too busy!!).
After my ex EUM’s final storming off conflict avoidant disappearing act, to go off and do something more important than work things out with me, I sent him an email (pfft! – he would never ever have ‘the conversation’ about it – too scared to! I wouldn’t have wasted my time asking him to come and speak to me – he would have been too “busy” or feeling unwell, or some – any old – other crap). I told him him I couldn’t take any more of his disappearing and his silent treatment, that his relationship behaviour was very painful for me and I could not handle any more of it. His return email read: “I will never not love you” (work that one out if you can!). That, after ten years, was the sum total of what he had to say to me. That was literally all I got from him. He was ambiguous in the relationshit and he was ambiguous right to the end (why expect anything different?). It really is true that them being “too busy” means they don’t want involved – but they like to think that you still want involved with them and their ‘too busy’ crumbs; they like you to be there. Don’t buy into his ambiguity. Read and process his real message.
Fearless,
I am so encouraged that you no longer give a shit about your busy, busy exEUM. I also had very busy parents, with a mum who worked permanent night shifts for years and a dad who was always off working on his own dreams and projects (when he was sober). It must be wonderful for you to be in that place now. Can I just clarify – did it take you the full two years of NC to “get there”?
I’m glad I saw the light before I died
No Learner, not all that time, but a long time (I was emotionally involved and invested in this man for ten years, so it was bound to take some time to get to where I am now – wherever that is. I’m not even sure where that is; all I know is I would never go back; I still think about it/him a lot, but never in a good way. Mostly now I am astonished at myself for taking crumbs from him like they were a feast in the desert for me and I still often experience waves of furious incredulity (like impotent fury) at how he did nothing, absolutely nothing to hold on to me (that was the final kick in the face for me – and I still feel the hurt of it, that I meant so little to him after all his promises and his “love” – I meant nothing to him, it would seem. His unavailability was total).
You will be fine, Learner; be patient with yourself. Give it all the time it needs. I think Natalie is right that we accept all this “too busy – woe is me, I am up to my neck in this and that and the next thing…” and it never ends. We think it is ‘normal’ for us not to be important, not to be worth more than that. It does all come down to what we believe we are worth – what we really, truly believe we are worth. What took time for me was getting to a place where I absolutely know, in all certainty, that although I am not used to being a priority, that I am as deserving of that as the next person. I look at women in good relationships now and I no longer see that as something unattainable for me; I know now that I am worthy of real love and respect and care – not faux love, faux respect, faux care. Nat’s fantastic line that will stick with me till I die: “he’s not that special and I am not that desperate” takes on a real and true meaning for you as you stick with NC – you start to really see what that means. He is not that special, Learner, and you are not that desperate. really, you’re not!
Hi Fearless
I agree this post has taken me on a trip down memory lane.
I cringe when I think about when the ex eum and I were together which wasn’t too often and it was always for two nights and one full day. And during that time together he would want time out it really was like I’m sorry I can’t possibly spend all of this time together I need to be busy doing other stuff so of he’d go to his office for anywhere up to four hours and leave me to my own devices.
I remember feeling insulted but I still never left I wish I had but I was too busy with denial.
I’d also like to ask a completely silly question was what he did wrong ? Even though I felt insulted I was also conflicted thinking when people are in a relationship they don’t spend all of their time with their partner even if they are both at home for the day.
Tulipa
going by your post alone (as that’s all I can do here on the blog) my first thought is that if my ex EUM left me ‘to my own devices’ to go off and be busy in the office for four hours I’d have thought I’d won watch! Mine would easily and frequently be too busy for four months – and some! Seriously. Of course people in relationships can’t/shouldn’t be around each other 24/7 – that doesn’t sound too healthy to me either, but if you are not spending much time together in a consistent way and the ‘busy’ excuse is a means he’s using to ensure the relationship does not progress then that’s a big issue. So from your post, it’s not the four hours that raises flags for me but the maybe there’s a lack of consistency (dare I say lack of predictability) and that you were not spending time together “too often” (though your “too often” and my “too often” may be two different things; you need to think about whether he’s being evasively ‘busy’ or if you are being clingy).
Fearless,
Oh my, I didn’t realize you had spent *ten years* with your super-busy EUM, nor that he had been so blasé about your relationship ending. No fighting for you after you had put up with his crumbs all that time. How awful! It’s understandable why that would take a while to recover from. And, “I will never not love you” Was he a specialist in double negatives? My word processing program has green squiggly lines under that one (“negation use: consider revising” it tells me!). Wow.
That’s even worse than what I got from *my* “busy, busy, busy”, ghastly (love that term you used for him!) exMM when I sent the NC email:
“Although saddened, I respect your decision… I will never deny that you are the love of my life, but understand also that I blew it, that I made some terribly bad choices and fully understand all of your decisions….”
It’s funny that they both used the word “never” in this convoluted way! When I first got this email from him (there was a bit more to it than what I quoted), I thought it seemed quite thoughtful and respectful. Now I’m thinking maybe it’s not so thoughtful as he seemed just fine with letting the “friendship” go so easily (after all his carrying on when we stopped being lovers two months prior to this). At least NC has been easier this way.
It’s great that you have progressed to the place where you know for sure that you are worthy of *real* love, respect and care, and deserve to be a priority in a good relationship. Thanks for the reassurance that I, too, will be fine, and to be patient with myself. Nat, and you, are right – they are not that special and we are not that desperate!
Learner
Language/the written word is exactly my ex’s field of specialism – he’s an accomplished academic; he knows exactly what he was saying (and so did I!). They are non-committal – ambivalence personified – it oozes from their every pore. The whole “too busy” thing Nat’s talking about on this post is but one aspect of their entire non-committal armory.
Every time I blew a fuse at my ex EUM (which wasn’t often openly communicated to him because I knew he’d disappear at the first sign of me being disgruntled with him in any way – and it was always couched in terms of him being ‘considerate *to me*, i.e. “I’m obviously upsetting you/annoying you so I’ll leave you alone” – and he did, for months and months at a time). Yes, like yours, he always “understood” – “I blew it; I screwed up; I let you down; I don’t blame you if you never speak to me again; I worry that you’ll find someone else; one day I’ll come to your door to be with you and I won’t blame you if you tell me to eff off; I know you deserve better; I’ve just been busy; I’m insanely swamped…. blah, blah, blah…..’
It’s all very well that they are so ‘thoughtfully understanding’ (pfft!) but what they really mean is “I am a total shit and I know it – I’m just hoping that if I couch that in terms of consideration for you that you’ll still be the woman who won’t notice that I’m a total shit”
To get back to the topic, this guy can tell you whatever baloney he likes (that’s easy!) to keep you on his back-burner – but his shitty behaviour is still his shitty behaviour; whatever he says,he still too busy! And the bottom line is this: He. Is. Not. There.
That’s all you need to know. What I ask myself now is, if he’s not there why the hell was I?
Fearless: “His return email read: “I will never not love you” (work that one out if you can!).” Got the same message via text because…wait for it…he was too busy. I remember staring at my phone trying to figure it out. That’s a red flag. Whenever I have to stare at my phone trying to figure it out…? Learner, take all the time you need. As others and Natalie have said, sometimes processing the present break-up triggers processing and coming to grips with the past, at least it has been true for me. Although I was only involved with the exMM for two years, it has taken a year and a half to get out. My three prior divorces didn’t take “this long”. It’s difficult for me to identify my favorite Natalie advice because everything I’ve read has substantially changed my life. “There is no fire” has resonated with me. Although, “he’s not that special and I’m not that desperate” is topline. For me, any guy that is too busy, too married, too attached, is NOT special. It’s taken a ton of BR work but like Fearless says, “its no longer unattainable for me”. Good goddam Fealess. you are simply on fire. We are a priority. Guys that don’t recognize that get the giant flush.
PS. What were we thinking? I mean that in the nicest way!
Fearless,
Even more similarities in the bullshit these guys spew forth, especially the “I would understand if you never speak to me again” – seriously, almost word for word from “my” guy’s mouth! I think you just succinctly interpreted about 90% of the exMM’s communication with me in this one thought: ‘what they really mean is “I am a total shit and I know it – I’m just hoping that if I couch that in terms of consideration for you that you’ll still be the woman who won’t notice that I’m a total shit”’ (we are noticing *now* though). That plus Natalie’s interpretation of the whole “busy” plea is giving me a much clearer picture of what these pathetic, ambivalence-oozing, non-committal men really mean. They just weren’t “there” so why were we? Brilliant!
Runnergirl,
Yes, loads of coming to grips with the past going on here, too. I am in my late 40’s, so it’s about time. If it took you a year and a half to process your exMM relationshit, I guess I will extend the timeline a bit for myself and not be so impatient to get “over it” so fast. After reading “Mr U and the FBG”, I know there is some work to be done that won’t happen overnight. We ARE a priority and we need to feel that in our core. I agree that Fearless is on fire! Such wise words from her, and from you, and the whole BR community.
“I’m glad I saw the light before I died!” So funny but so spot-on, Fearless and exactly how I feel. My ex-AC, who is thankfully now receding into a dim and distant memory, was “too busy” to commit to any plans *ever* and also used to spend entire evenings lying in the bath, notebook and pen in hand, “thinking” (he was a writer and we lived in a tiny flat. I now clearly see it was just a way to avoid me/be “busy” – ie not be available or present even on a quiet night in at home!)
I now spend my time busy doing things I want to do for myself, not waiting around for someone else to fit me into their plans. Someone else includes a perpetually late friend who I allowed to act as if her time was more important than mine for years, and seemed rather shocked when I was no longer amenable to adhering to her schedule, because I actually had a schedule of my own.
This is the kind of thing that has made a HUGE difference to my outlook on life and makes me really HAPPY. Thank you Natalie! xx
Hi all,
Well, I’ve moved and I started my new job today! I’m excited and scared. I had a lovely send off from folks who know me from work, and some personal friends were great. I’m a little puzzled and disappointed in the behaviour of a couple friends and I’m so this post is on topic for me. Two of my ‘friends’ were ‘super-busy’ during my last days in town.
One of my friends, whom I considered one of my closest friends, didn’t do anything special around my departure. She offered help that I didn’t call on, though. I’m not sure if I should make anything of it, but it’s kind of strange when folks who don’t seem like my closest friends take time out to do a special lunch, some of them bringing little gifts, others coming by and helping me move stuff, etc, that my last visit to my one friend should be me going to her place and bringing snacks and a goodbye gift for her – I don’t know. Maybe I’m overthinking it.
The other one is my roommate. I’ve discussed differences I have had with her here before. I feel that despite these differences I’ve attempted to behave like a friend, keeping discussions of her behaviour that bothers me to a minimum, still chatting and listening to her as friends do, trying to keep up on her life and know what matters to her, etc to provide emotional support, all the time feeling distance but trying, you know? In the midst of my finishing my dissertation and getting ready to move, her birthday was three days before my moving day and I had a present ready for her in the morning; said happy birthday to her upon waking, made her a smoothie, and then two days later made time, right before the move, to go out with her as part of her birthday celebration.
Now I feel silly because she basically stood back and watched me haul boxes without lifting a finger. She hid in her room while I packed and moved things downstairs, and the day I was loading up she said the day before, “Oh, sorry I’m not helping, I’m just so busy preparing my classes.” Then load-up day, she tiptoed out (“I have so much work to do”) while my other friend arrived to help me move. She came back while I was still hauling boxes (alone, my other friend could only stay a couple hours), watched me carrying stuff, then went upstairs and hid out for a while before reappearing dressed to go to yoga and left.
I also feel silly (having treated her like a friend) when I watched her simply leave the unusual mess she made of the kitchen: sink full of dirty dishes, knives and cutting board still full of food mess on the counter, food smeared on the stove area, etc. She left this mess while I was in the final stages of prepping and moving out, making it impossible to wash up my own dishes, to do the fridge clean-out, or to even use the counter space in the service of the move (the kitchen is the closest to the front door). She just looked at it and said, “Oh, I don’t want to touch anything until everything is settled.” She had made it clear that the mess I was making while moving was a big disruption for her. I finally had to tell her I wouldn’t be able to clear out the fridge because I had no access to the sink.
I wondered on BR a few days ago whether her leaving things in the sink for almost a week, the last time, was passive aggression, because it seemed so opposite to her telling me not to make a mess.
I should say that she did write a reference to my new landlady, so it’s not like she did absolutely nothing, and that I asked to leave some stuff there that wouldn’t fit in the car for an extra couple weeks and I will come back and get it. She said she wanted all my office furniture out and I was unable to arrange to get it all out by the end of the month. I left today, and plan to go get the stuff the next weekend. I know it’s poor tenancy to leave furniture beyond the move-out date. She doesn’t have anyone in my space; she had said that she was thinking she wouldn’t get a new tenant, then just told me yesterday that she wants to show the room.
Anyway, I’m feeling like things I did “made her” treat me this way. She has said before that she expects people to take a hint and not make her have to rudely spell things out. I don’t know if the fly-attracting kitchen mess and the not-helping were deliberate, like a message I’m supposed to interpret. If it is, then the message I get is ‘I don’t like you; you mean little to me; I am your landlord not your friend.” Even if her behaviour is “unconscious” it still feels like a slap in the face.
Can any of you help me make sense of this? I can hear Natalie’s voice saying “It’s not about you. You don’t make someone treat you poorly” and I think, yeah, even though there are lots of things that offend me in her, I don’t believe I have used it as an excuse to treat her poorly. Maybe I’m kidding myself. Maybe I’m a jerk and she’s just finally expressing it (passively) as I leave? It just feels so bizarre (and somewhat hurtful) to feel that someone would say “and fuck you” as I go, rather than take the opportunity to close off the relationship on a strong note.
Hey Magnolia,
Congratulations on starting your new job. It’s such a wonderful opportunity for you. New job, new friends, and new YOU! How exciting.
I wouldn’t fret too much about the former room mate. I’d be grateful to be out of that situation. Let her be busy. As for the other “super busy” friends, let them be busy too. I know it feels like a let down or a slap in the face but there is nothing you can do to make them “unbusy”. I had to let go of my very festest friend of almost 6 six years because I realized whenever I wanted to do something, she was busy. But I was supposed to drop everything when she had time to do something. So I dropped her.
Look to your new future and to filling your life with people who do make the effort.
Hi Magnolia
Just want to add my good wishes – I wish you all the best in your new job and hope you enjoy it.
I wouldn’t worry about your ex room mate maybe she just wanted to push your buttons one last time and I agree with another poster it seemed like she was jealous.
As for your other friends I don’t know but hopefully you can put it behind you and find better friends.
Magnolia, I think it’s a bad habit of trying to get along with everyone. Noone can be liked by everyone. It seems to me that you were chasing your ex roommate, when she actually showed you very clear she doesn’t respect you. Why would you want a friend like that? Congrats on your new job! Forget your mean roomate, I’m sure you’ll find some very cool friends there.
Magnolia
It sounds like SHE should be the one feeling “silly”, (or rude!), instead of you. What you describe does not sound like her treating you with care or respect. How fortunate that you will now have a “natural” ending to this lopsided friendship. Onward and upward, and all the best to you in your new position.
Same thing happened to me when I moved a little over 2 years ago. One person was really nasty to me a few days before I moved – for no reason whatsoever – and needless to say, I dropped that dead weight & I’ll never speak to her again. Along with that jackass, I actually dropped a few other dead weights when I moved. It kinda stung back then, but in hindsight, I’m glad that they’re gone.
To me, things like this are excuses for people to get out of friendships (or romantic relationships) that they never really wanted to be in, in the first place. Those excuses, to me, are also a way to avoid facing the inevitable, whether it’s the pain they feel from you moving or a conflict (that can lead to resolution if they didn’t act like such jerks) or fear or etc. With friends like that, you don’t need enemies. Congratulations on the move and good luck with the new job.
I actually wrote this post out yesterday (though today was the first day of the job!). Reading through NML’s thoughts, I guess I just am gobsmacked at the people who showed me I was a low priority in their lives.
Mags,
My first thoughts are that I find it difficult to spend two weeks on holiday in the same apartment as my family (and these are people I love), so I think difficulties you’ve had (perhaps her too) are not entirely unusual – difficult to avoid even. Sounds to me like once you were definitely leaving she didn’t feel the need to bother her shirt even with the niceties anymore – to my mind her ‘busy’ excuse is exactly fitting with Nat’s post – it means she can’t be arsed; and since she doesn’t need to be anymore, she won’t even be paying it lip service (I smell a bit of jealousy too?). I’d feel the same as you; and I’d take the same message from it. I’d also be thinking to myself, ‘well, if that’s how ignorant you want to be, I’m glad to be leaving you behind. Believe in the power of ‘good-bye’. Try not to dwell on her – be far too busy! She’s over. Good luck with the new post! Enjoy.
Dear Magnolia
Good Luck in the new job. Hope it goes really well and everything falls into place really quickly. Your old flatmates behaviour is not a reflection of you. Its a reflection on her and she seems a very self centred and selfish person. She probably had a set of house rules that NEVER applied to her. You are moving on to bigger and brighter things and enjoy the new experience and dont give HER behaviour another thought!
People have their limitations for whatever reasons. The amount of time we spend dwelling on these people their limitations is up to us. How much better to use our energies focusing on the positive things that are done for us, perhaps even noticing and remembering even the smallest of things (ie, the door being held for us by a stranger, a kudos by a colleague, a smile from a baby) instead of wasting our energies on unreliable sources.
Hang in there. The pain will subside after a while. And you may not feel this way now, but I’ll say it for you:
Fuck them. 😐 Better will come along. Best wishes to you.
When I was very young, a guy that I liked but wasn’t *that* into would ask me out a lot. And I would tell him that I was “really busy”. One day he said to me, “Well, we make time for the things we want to make time for”. Busted! I felt bad. I ended up giving him the “I just want to be friends” talk (which I am sure he knew was coming, but bad on me). Here it is a couple of decades later and I still remember his words. It’s a gauge and a measure for me and for the men I connect (or not) with.
I love your site! I, too, have been stung by a “busy bee” who also happens to be a Narcissist, which means the world revolves around him. It took me years, but I finally said goodbye. We talk once in awhile and I tell him to just be honest and say that he doesn’t want to catch up in person because NO ONE is that busy. My mom and mother of eleven had a great saying, “People make time for what (and who) they want to make time for.” It’s true.
Same here, Nicole: I married the Narcissist, and he was “too busy” to connect emotionally with me. I was perpetually jealous of his clients who got his undivided attention.
I suppose if I could have paid for his time, he would have given me some, too.
Lessons learned for both of us, apparently.
Nicole.
You’re still in contact with a man you consider to be a narcissist and doesn’t want to meet up with you??
Nicole
Your (truly busy!) mother was so right. I had to say that line to my ex many times as he listed off all the things he had to do before he could sit down and chat with me. And I often interspersed that line with “People *remember* what’s important to them and to people they truly care about”. So many lame excuses about being busy and having a crappy memory. Who do they think they are???
‘Stung’ by busy bee. LOL. What a great meme!!
I had that scenario as well. Meanwhile I own a business and I fully well know what a crazy, hectic, busy day is. There is always some time in the course of a crazy busy day I can get in a few minute phone call no matter what. Even if it is in the car or bathtub…lol I had the biggest fight with my ex over his busy busy excuse. I actually broke it off with him over it. When I took him back a few months later he would call every day twice a day. All of a sudden he got less busy? It is the most bs excuse I have ever heard. Of course the relationship eventually ended a few yrs later because he was a narcissist I found out….of course the painful way.
While I understand your post, Nat, there are exceptions.
Take me- I’m a single mom, self employed, with a huge mortgage – and I have a very high stress job that’s dependent on how fast I can turnaround work. I had a really bad year last year financially, no health insurance (so have to pay cash for doctor’s visits). Frankly, it’s a nightmare and here in the states the economy sucks, so I work long hours and most weekends, too.
Take that combo of issues and you get a gal who loves men, misses having a man in her life, but truly lives a life on the edge. And I have a guy that really is trying to be there for me, but I’m not doing him justice. And i’ve told him so – but honestly I don’t think he’s “the one”, either. The thought has crossed my mind that if I really really found another guy that I am head over heels about, I would likely make it all work. I guess I just shouldn’t be dating until I can feel comfortable financially – or until I’ve found the one. I’m just afraid at my age, I never will!
Tess,
If you know it will not work out with this guy, PLEASE do not string him along. It’s not fair!!! The majority of people on this site have been in that position, and it doesn’t feel good to be second-best or used.
Do the right thing, and let him go!
Aw Tess 🙁
I have to say – and I say this as someone who is also a single mother and has to work stupidly hard on occasion (but is lucky enough to get the school holidays off) – that your life sounds very very difficult atm.
To be honest, I wouldn’t even think about trying to have a relationship while you’re in this position, you have enough priorities to be going on with right now. I know that it’s tempting to think that meeting someone will lighten the load in some ways, but I’m not sure that it works like that.
If I were you, I’d pour my energies into looking for solutions to the issues that you currently have, it doesn’t sound like a fun way to be living your life. Could you downsize on the house or get a different job? I know that they sound like rather drastic solutions (also I know next to nothing about your life, so feel free to tell me to push off!) but I personally don’t believe that ANYTHING is worth living your life in a miasma of deadlines and panic. Also, while you’re having to prioritise those things so highly you’re physically not in a position to be able to put the effort, time and thought that you need into building a good healthy relationship.
Thanks, yes you’ve hit a few things on the head- and it isn’t a fun way to live, but in this economy I actually feel blessed to have work to support myself and my daughter. With the state of the economy here, many don’t.
I have told my guy friend the situation- several times- but he continues to pursue me. It’s juxtaposed to the typical male female situation as most of the time it’s the guy keeping the woman at arms’ length with real or made up business. I must admit he makes it easy to continue my hectic schedule but I do feel badly because the shoe’s been on the other foot for me as well. And so my post, because it’s easy to get in this place with someone who is supportive of you no matter what.
Thanks for your kind words, gonna work on the situation.
“….but there are also people who act like they’re ‘critical’ and work very long hours because it helps them to avoid their feelings, themselves, and even relationships.” BINGO!!!
I ended a relationship with my ex passive-aggressive EUM three weeks ago. Things were great the first four months that we were together. The last 2 1/2 months (after accepting a full-time job offer, as well as continuing to work for himself in the evenings) he used the excuse of being too busy. When I finally got tired of being jerked around, I walked away. Thanks to Nat’s blog, I handled it well and actually felt a great sense of relief. My only regret is that I bought his b.s. and did not end it sooner. I am in therapy to figure out why I seem to attract “nice” guys who turn out to be emotionally unavailable. I am sick of this foolishness and am looking for an emotionally available man like Nat has found.
Gina, the author of How to avoid falling in love with a jerk (he’s a psychologist) says that it takes about 3 months for a person to show his/her dominant behavior patterns. First three months almost everyone wants to be at his/her best, and is usually caring, attentive etc. (honeymoon phase). Around the third or fourth month, if the person is EU we can already see some very serious red flags, and we should abort mission. However, most people keep dating that person, hoping to recreate the feeling of the honeymoon phase again.
Titi that is SO true! My ex used to say that the representatives have left when referring to someone who started to show their true colors. At the time I did not know that he would eventually referring to himself!! With that said, I look at this former relationship as a valuable learning experience that will make be better and wiser. He tried get the best of me by passive-aggressively playing mind games and trying to manipulate me. It was as though he got his jollies from being emotionally abusive–in a subtle way–so as not to destroy his ‘nice’ guy image. He was hoping for a drama filled break up on my end, so that he could get a big ego boost and keep his nice guy image. I did not give him the satisfaction of being confrontational. Instead, I chose to take the high road and broke up with him in a calm, matter-of-fact, see ya, but would not want to be ya, wishing you all the best tone. In other words: I took my power back, and it felt GOOD like I knew that it would!
“And you know, if you’re in this situation, it’s a good time to ask yourself just what you think they’re busy doing and how if you’re already making excuses for their busyness and writing yourself out of the relationship that you deserve, do you expect to actually have a full on relationship with this person that will actually go anywhere?”
This certainly hits home. I made an exit from this kind of mind effery relationship months back when i feel i deserved so much better than what this ex-EUM has given to me. Have been on NC for 2 months and going strong. I started to go back to the plans i made before i get together with this AC. And i just came back from a vacation that i have put on hold before and i will be going for another one soon. Life’s definitely getting better without this AC who sucked the happiness out of me. Thanks a lot Natalie for all the postings and to all the readers who share their experiences. I have learned a lot and knowing i am not alone to went thru all this BS.
The insulting thing about the whole “I’ve been really busy” excuse is that it implies that they believe you’ve been sitting there twittling your thumbs doing absolutely nothing with your life while he or she presumably has the weight of the entire world on their shoulders. Give me a friggin break, it’s called making an effort despite what we ALL have on our plates. I used to accept that as a valid excuse, mainly because I used to use it myself. But one day I realized that it was nothing more than a cop out I used when there was something/someone that was a) going to require more time or effort than I felt like giving at the time, or b) not high on my priority list. Some people are lazy and not worth your time either way. Others are not self-aware enough to realize that they’re insulting your intelligence with such a bogus excuse when the truth is that they don’t value you. My friend’s dad used to have this saying back when we were teenagers: “It only takes five minutes to call.” Anybody who isn’t even willing to spare five minutes of their day for you isn’t worth anything that you are capable of offering. Glad I understand what he meant, but I wish I understood it a few years ago. Could’ve saved myself a lot of trouble…
Lia
“The insulting thing about the whole “I’ve been really busy” excuse is that it implies that they believe you’ve been sitting there twittling your thumbs doing absolutely nothing with your life while he or she presumably has the weight of the entire world on their shoulders.”
Ha! So, so true! When I started seeing my ex EUM I was sitting final university exams and raising my young daughter (on my own) on a very tight budget; and as the relationshit “progressed” I started a full time professional job which was very stressful (I was still learning how to do it!) and still raising my daughter and trying to get a mortgage to buy a house – ironically though, Mr Most Important had no children, no dependents, no money worries, his own home and yes, he too had a busy job but still his life, ironically, was much busier, more demanding and more challenging than mine was. Yet I did superhuman juggling acts, pulled rabbits out of hats, spun plates and turned cartwheels to make time and space for him. Bigger fool me and don’t I know it now.
“The insulting thing about the whole “I’ve been really busy” excuse is that it implies that they believe you’ve been sitting there twittling your thumbs doing absolutely nothing with your life while he or she presumably has the weight of the entire world on their shoulders.”
Yep! As if you’re beneath the so-busy-so-important person. Ridiculous.
You are, as usual, spot on about this. I’m dating a guy who has been 8,000 miles away on business the past 5 weeks, yet he has found time to email/chat 2-3x/week and make a date to see me the day after he gets back–1.5 weeks in advance! Time difference, distance, and “busyness” don’t matter if you are truly interested in someone and emotionally available!!
Besides “I’m busy,” to me, the word “maybe” is another lame excuse. Instead of supposedly being busy, the guys (and gals!) I’ve encountered tend to respond with “we’ll see” or “maybe” when they want to hedge their bets. They initially sound like they’ve really planned this out well, and way ahead of time, but after that, if something (an event, a better time to hang out) comes along that they feel is better for them, they’ll try to change the date immediately. They’re changing plans for themselves, and not for you-they don’t care if you’re not ok with how frequently they change plans.
“You’re like a plane circling above them waiting for the relationship traffic control to give you your slot. Permission to land in the shag lane and permission to land in the dinner and an ego lane.”
I so relate to the above only at the time I was in denial about it. I mean I felt like I was getting a good deal too.
But when things are always on someone elses time schedule and you have to continually change all your plans and they rarely change their plans to fit in with yours you realise that you are not on equal footing. When they do change their plans to fit yours you never hear the end of it and how grateful you should be.
I don’t know how being low on someone’s list became the norm for me even now I don’t like being someone’s priority as Fearless says it is an uncomfortable position to be in.
I revisited my EUM recently and realized that he is EXACTLY the same a year later. Still not divorced, still EU, still too busy. Going back validated why I bailed in the first place and helped me take his extreme “busy-ness” less personally. Nat is so right, if it weren’t us in the picture it would be someone else with exactly the same result. I will not settle ever again for excuses and table scraps.
Hi magnolia
Good news with the new job! I’m not familiar with your back story but I did notice that you posted a lot about your flatmate’s behaviour after establishing early on in that post that she probably isn’t your favourite person anyway (my interpretation of your comments, so pls let me know if I’ve misunderstood!). If my understanding is correct, why do you care why she is behaving that way? You spent a lot more time explaining her behaviour than going in to how your other closer friends behaved (some of which seem to have let you down) in the lead up to your move. Not that I think it helps to analyse thing too much, I just wonder why you haven’t written as much abut your closer friends?
Re the post generally: totes agree! I had a near brush with a busy person. My view: I think some of these people actually believe they want to follow through with most of the plans they make and then, when they realise that others expect them to follow through, the passive aggressive/push-pull behaviour becomes apparent. Once I realized that my busy person was just going to be a “relationship” built on drama and moved on, I felt so much calmer immediately. I haven’t looked back – my epiphany moment came when I truly *felt* like I do deserve more. I had some abstract intellectual idea of my worth which I would duly roll out to my therapist…but now I *feel* it to my core. And, unsurprisingly, the busy person has a new partner who, conveniently, lives in another state and so the status quo remains!
Getting it
“my epiphany moment came when I truly *felt* like I do deserve more. I had some abstract intellectual idea of my worth […]…but now I *feel* it to my core.”
I am so with you on that one. I too had some abstract intellectual idea that I deserved/was worth more but that’s not the same as knowing it and believing it. I don’t know at what point that knowledge seeped from my conscious intellect into my ‘core’ (many many months after starting NC nearly two years ago – even quite recently, I’d say).
I can see clearly now that the reason I tolerated a non-relationship with a man who was “too busy” to get both feet in, to busy for me, too busy to have the relationship was because I did not believe I deserved more. Those of my friends who were bewildered that I stuck around for this man did not share my feelings of low-worth; no wonder they were utterly bewildered – speechless even – at my behaviour!
If we are tolerating a man who is “too busy” to have a relationship with us, we have to see that the issue is not that he’s “too busy” but that we think “too busy” will be good enough for us. That’s what needs to be tackled.
“If we are tolerating a man who is “too busy” to have a relationship with us, we have to see that the issue is not that he’s “too busy” but that we think “too busy” will be good enough for us. That’s what needs to be tackled.”
GREAT point & food for thought.
My ex AC narcissist was either “super busy” or “super wiped,” and went to great pains to come up with excuses as why he couldn’t see me. In hindsight I can see he was trying to manage down the relationship, because it didn’t make any sense why I couldn’t simply hang out with him while he watched TV. After two years it went from seeing each other 3-4 times a week to maybe seeing him twice a week. I called him my “weekend boyfriend,” and if he was feeling charitable, he’d step it back up to three times a week. But he never so much as left a tooth brush at my house, and if I left any of my possessions at his place, he’d hide them away if a friend visited from out of town. He couldn’t bear the mere symbols of a relationship hanging around his bachelor pad. After two years of exclusive dating.
It wasn’t a relationship. It was soul destroying, and I’m still piecing myself together a year after dumping his ass.
Never again will I put up with such disrespect.
This is so funny (now) Natalie,
I was involved with the most important, super busy guy on the planet. In fact I think he was running another planet! In hindsight, listening to him endlessly recount all the things he had to do taught me a valuable lesson: Nobody wants to hear the tedious details of what someones else has to do. Totally boring. Most importantly, it was a way of managing down my expectations which were already pretty minimal. Of course at the outset, I recognized that he was pretty full of himself. Nobody could be that critical and I realized he worked those long hours in order to avoid something. In perfect dreamer mode, I figured he was trying to avoid his wife and that once he realized how wonderful I was he’d stop working those long hours. Nope. I just got tossed in the que waiting for “Permission to land in the shag lane” and “Permission to land for dinner and an ego stroke”. I don’t buy busy anymore. I also noticed that he could get really unbusy when he needed a shag.
Like you say, I learned this pattern of waiting around for super-important-super- busy men from the first EU in my life, my father.
PS. I got the “I’m so busy” line from an online dating guy when attempting to set up a first date. He was so busy we couldn’t meet for two weeks and he proceeded to outline everything he had to tend to. I went comatose. There’s nothing more fascinating than listening to a perfect stranger list his two week itinerary. Too busy for a first date? We didn’t meet. I can’t remember why. Maybe cos I was busy…he, he, he!
Runnergirl
I hear you on the tedium involved in listening to a “loved-one’s” exhaustive to-do list.
And, Oh my goodness, we had the same dream! The exMM’s must have been running neighbouring planets: ” I figured he was trying to avoid his wife and that once he realized how wonderful I was he’d stop working those long hours.” YES! That’s exactly what I thought. Thing is though, over the 3 years, he *did* have more and more time for me, so it fueled the dream even further. What was really happening though, was that he was “weaning himself off” (his words) his OOW and putting more of his attention-getting, need-fulfillment energy and time towards me. Once I found out about this OOW (in May of this year) I asked him how he explained to *her* his big drop in time availability. He said “oh, I tell her I am on the run…busy, busy, busy….I have a shadow today” (his wife). and guess what? These are all the things he told ME when he was *so busy* in the beginning. How sickeningly predictable and self-serving and cowardly and EU.
Runnergirl, I am *so* glad you are too busy (hehe) for this online guy that revealed his to-do list before you even met him. Talk about nipping this crap in the bud. Good for you!!!
@Learner I have been an avid reader of BR for about 6 months now and just recently had the courage to start participating in conversations. Courage mostly relates to my having to look at my situation in reality and not for what I hope/wish it to be. It has been very difficult realizing that everything my EUM says and does is “typical” behavior for someone who is completely emotionally unavailable. While it helps to know that I am not alone, it hurts to know that my situation won’t turn out differently and my holding onto hope is only hurting myself.
I have read a lot of you quote the excuses your EUM/AC give you but it was when you (@Learner) wrote that he told you “I have a shadow today (his wife)” I realized I am in something really bad. I have been told that and haven’t heard anyone else use that term before. I just realized there is very high potential I am the OOW – something I never thought could be true. Despite all the red flags, lies, manipulation, blowing hot and cold, verbal lashings…I still wanted to believe everything he has told me. Right now I am being “punished,” i.e. he’s not speaking to me, because I said something he didn’t like. More than likely he found a reason to temporarily get rid of me while he is blowing hot with someone else. All the while I am sitting with the excruciating pain that comes with this horrible emotional game. I am in the thick of it and not sure what to do. Any advice is completely welcome.
Lillian,
Do you mean you think you could be the OOW to “my” exMM? I think saying one” has a shadow” may not be common, but with the millions of EUM/MM’s out there, it’s likely more than one would say it. However, it IS a small planet, soo – this is what I know of the OOW in my world:
-exMM and OOW have been involved for at least 10 years
-they have been on many walks and hikes together, which often includes a stop at a cheap motel for a “quickie”. I am ashamed to say he has taken ME to that very motel. How nauseating.
-they got into the routine of having early morning coffee before they both headed off to work for the day
-the OOW is a friend of both exMM and his wife.
-OOW has a son and a daughter, exMM has a son around 20 years old
-he has spent less time with OOW than usual over the last 2 years
These are points he has told me, but who knows how much of it is true? Is any of this sounding familiar?
As far as advice, I agree with everything Teachable has suggested to you further down this post/thread.
Best of luck to you as you extricate yourself from this excruciatingly painful situation. Hugs xo
Learner – I wasn’t necessarily thinking I was the OOW to your exEUM, but was more saying it jarred me into thinking I could be the other OOW to ANY of these EUMs and it really hit home when I read that. It was more the “OMG he says that to me!” that went off in my head and made me feel ashamed to think I am falling for all of it. So, no, I am not the person you described, but I am the person that is described in so many of these posts and it is so hurtful to every ounce of my being. It took me a long time to realize that all of the things that he tells me are classic and typical lines and nothing special at all. And to think he could be saying all that to someone else made me feel sick. Sorry if my post was confusing. Thanks for your response and encouragement.
Lilian
I read a lot of posts here from women outlining the sheer misery they are experiencing at the hands of some EUM or A/C or MM (all amounts to the same thing!) who finish their comment with ‘I don’t know/not sure what to do”.
While I sympathise greatly with where that emotion is coming from, the answer is always the same really: You do know what to do (at least in the short term), which is don’t walk, run and don’t look back. End it. And get on the road to recovery. Your only other option is to stick around and settle for what you’re getting – but you need to know it won’t get any better; it’ll get much, much worse. So if you can’t save yourself you had better brace yourself.
Also, I assume since you’re talking about OW status that the guy is already married. Well, wake up and smell the coffee (read: shite) soon as you can, for your own sake. Many of us have been there and the story is always the same. Good luck.
runner,
yep, my ex EUM would give me the whole list of work he had scheduled; he’d even rhyme off all his deadline dates for his tasks (he published in professional journals and edited books etc. – a Phd, now professor, of literature and literary critic). He’d always give me these woe is me ” updates” just before my/his holiday periods, e.g. immediately before the Xmas hols I’d get the rundown/update of how awful his workload is, how worried he is about it all, and how he does not know how he’s going to meet all these deadlines and he’d finish off my saying that he’d need to work night and day all over Xmas and New Year, ending with his favourite phrase – ‘but it just has to be done’. Grrr. I think Nat’s post has taken me on a trip down misery memory lane (and reminded me to never go there again!)
I would ask him why he takes on all these tasks; why he doesn’t say ‘no, I can’t fit that in’ (they weren’t necessary – and a lot of it was writing/essays that he’d set for himself; he’s very ambitious, career focused); he’d babble about how he knows he has to cut back and stop saying ‘yes’ to everyone (everyone except for me apparently!) he never did cut back, not a bit; it just got worse.
Busted! I can fall into doing that; I catch myself sometimes listing off all the things I have to do. It is indeed boring! I do think I’ve improved on that count, but when I’m tired, and interacting – say, with family – my lazy communication habits come back and I hear myself recounting the list. Thanks for the reminder that I’m communicating lazy interest in the person that is on the receiving end of my litany!
Another way of looking at it is ….when someone demands your time all the time and you give it …….up to the point you’re not living your own life anymore. They don’t appreciate that you need ” me time” So when you try to take a little time for yourself they are constantly contacting you. Its not that you’re too busy but some people even in relationships need a little space and if the other person doesn’t allow any space …what do you do?
I was in a relationship were all my time was free at the beck and call of my partner .My life didn’t seem important.Now I see I let that happen but the minute I wasn’t available I was called “pathetic ” for not even having time to call ….” not asking too much” etc etc
In a healthy relationship two people would want to make time for each other but when one person makes unreasonable demands on the other for their time how do you handle this?
I think at times it comes down to a simple lack of effective communication. Certain personalities do need more time to themselves…others don’t. You just need to communicate clearly to your partner that you need “me time” however you must ensure that you do spend at least some quality time with that person. I have been on this situation in a previous relationship where my partner was trying to explain to me that he needed “me time” and space and that was fine, I understood that and was more than willing to allow that. However, it became messy when he was barely spending any time with me at all…the time that was spent together was spent in virtual silence. It was not fun.
I do think it’s inappropriate when someone demands all of your time but as long as you are communicating..I would say to my partner “I NEED sometimes a bit of time to myself, just with the way that I am. I love spending time with you but I need time just for me to recharge/etc/etc…” then make sure you let your partner know that couple time is on the agenda soon and perhaps set a time for it..”we should go out for dinner/etc/etc..tomorrow, just you and me”..with communication and compromise there is lessened room for error.
How does the dynamic work say in a long distance scenario? In my last relationship we began as a couple in close proximity however he left for another city to work. He promised frequent communication, calls etc… however this never transpired…it got to a stage where I’d get one text in response (hours later) to one of mine..two at the very most (even though he still had time for Facebook), no phone calls from him (I had to make all of the calls at his encouragement because he had no money/call credit..etc.)..if I was lucky enough to get a summons to call him it would be late at night after he’d finished work (even though he’d start work in the afternoon)…all of this was because he was busy of course. Once, he put his lack of communication with me down “to my insecurities”…little did I know, I later found out that he was going out after work drinking with other women who were his friends/work buddies…didn’t know any of these people existed at the time of course, not until I had arrived to visit him. I have no idea whether any of this was acceptable…he was BUSY of course and I felt like I almost had no right to question him over it (one of the only times I did I received a snappy text in response)…I almost felt to afraid to contact him in case I was being needy or demanding..and my insecurities regarding the relationship worsened..killed it in the end.
To be honest, I just felt as if he’d completely lost interest in the relationship after he left but…
I’m not sure if all that comment went up but to quickly summarize..I just felt as if he’d completely lost interest in the relationship after he left but still wanted to keep me in his drawer..so I wouldn’t move on only for him to realize he’d made a mistake. We broke up a while ago but I’m thinking of getting into a new relationship where it could be long distance for a period..so how does the whole “I’m busy” thing work in a LDR..what is acceptable in that situation and what isn’t? What is right and what is wrong?
Sarah
When I was EU and scared of relationships (though at the time I chalked it up to “independence”) I had one LDR after another. Too many to be a coincidence or just down to circumstances. You may be falling into a pattern; I think it’s worth some examination.
Sarah
In my opinion, long distance smacks of being emotionally unavailable. You or your partner are off somewhere else living life separately. It is very difficult to build a relationship with such limited time together and I’ve seen how these connections can mask relationship issues because you only see each other for a few days at a time – so there is the emotional high of reconnecting and the lows of disconnecting – it can be another example of the passive aggressive ‘push-pull’ dynamic played out within the mechanics of the LDR.
I’d rather build something with someone local … It probably has a better chance of lasting, too!
I too, believe it “smacks” of EU behavior!
Stick to someone local!
Magnolia
Hope good things in hour new town and job; you deserve it. Your now ex flatmate sounds like a self absorbed slob! People make time for what and who they want to make time for. I run a small organic farm, am building a new building solo, among other things, but will still volunteer my time today putting up tents, driving in fence posts, etc. for a community event. Tomorrow, I travel to a town in the northern part of the state to run an ultra and hopefully meet new healthy people as long distance relationships are my only option here. Most folks that live far more convenience oriented lives can get up earlier and turn off the #$%& TV and would have tons of time. They just choose not to.
I always say that if President Obama, the leader of the free world can make time to spend with his family, then there is no such thing as someone being “too busy.” It is all an excuse that allows someone the opportunity to pop in and out of your life as they please. I am guilty of falling for this one, but best to realize the signs early and make an exit. Thank you Natalie!
Good luck to you Magnolia!! Belated birthday wishes and thank you Natalie. Miskwa you sound like one tough, awesome lady! and finally..I wanted to share this song; Dayna Kurtz “not the only fool in town”. Sorry I had trouble sending the link.
Um, wow!! This was my X eu mm. In the beginning, couldn’t get rid of him and that’s one of the things that attracted me to him, his ‘availablity’
But can you believe it, just as I had come to expect it, and push for more of his time and future he became really busy. It’s really sad to see that none of these situations are unique. He also is a ‘Houdini’ and disappeared again 6 weeks ago, the difference this time is that I let him go. No inquiring of why , ‘checking’ in on him. I’m done. I will say, Ive been very curious of why they choose the disappearing act. I know Nat must have a post somewhere on here about that.
I can finally say I’m glad I’m off that roller coaster. Now I’m working on me and my ‘little girl inside’ issues. I’ve seen a pattern and it’s time to correct it. I’m thankful I found this site.
“I will say, Ive been very curious of why they choose the disappearing act.”
The answer is simple: because it’s easy and takes no effort. Think about it, what do they have to do if they disappear on someone? Absolutely nothing other than not talk to you. They call it The Fade Away, and it’s used by people who are not thinking about how it will make you feel. They are only trying spare themselves a potential confrontation, whatever they would consider that to be, or maybe even want to avoid feeling guilty for hurting someone’s feelings…
When someone says they are too busy to make plans with you, I’ve learned it means one of two things. They conduct themselves this way in all their relationships as a control mechanism or they are no longer interested and don’t have the guts to tell you. Either way cut them loose. Usually I only get this from men I date but recently I’ve come to the conclusion that my best friend uses this technique with the people she dates as well as friends. She thinks it makes her seem desireable but really it just makes her a pain in the azz. She is late to everything, makes a whole group of people wait on her. I am finally over it and don’t invite her to things anymore unless I could care less if she comes. Everytime I would invite her to something she would say I’ll let you know ,I have so many options. Well that doesn’t work for me anymore.
They disappear because we let them and they know when they reappear we will greet them with open arms (fallback girls, we are). My ex- assclown from hell pulled that one on me more times than I want to admit. One time he disappeared for three weeks and then sent me an email saying “I would be lying if I said I wasn’t thinking about you.”. Oh really? I was so stupid back then but I learned, and I learned through Baggage Reclaim and the incredible wisdom of Natalie. Fast forward to today…. He knows the window of opportunity to be with me came and went, he blew it, no more chances, that pedastel doesn’t have your name on it anymore , sex – not with me buddy, give it to somebody else. And the great thing about this is that I sent this message to him and will continue to send it to him without saying a word and that is through NC.
Finallydidit
Yay! Inspiring 🙂
Thanks everyone for the congrats. I’m a little raw from these experiences in part because they go with the adventure of moving to a new place and hoping that the community I find myself in will be good. I’ve gone out to lunch twice with a colleague and today heard a lot of bitchy gossip about another colleague who wasn’t there. It makes me nervous: I’m reminded of all the people I’ve “picked” in my life, and feel like these “too busy” experiences suggest I still don’t have a great people picker. I feel I need to be very careful about whom I pick to be friends with in this new town and yet my self-trust in this area has just been challenged.
@GettingIt: I have always felt something off with my roommate, but I figured that we have spent so much time together that I’d leave on as positive a note as possible, to save at least a collegial relationship for the future when we aren’t in each others’ face. I am hurt because she seemed to actively behave her worst at the end, as if to *bury* the relationship instead. Fearless wrote about her EUM, “how he did nothing, absolutely nothing to hold on to me (that was the final kick in the face for me)” – if anything, it’s like she didn’t even do nothing, she added a little final kick! I might not have chosen her as my bff but I thought I accorded her the respect I believe is due the person that I lived with and shared space with for three years. I’m still stunned.
Lo J and Getting It, you seem to suggest I’m focusing on the negative – well, yes, I’m writing about something I’m trying to make sense of. I’m not sitting here wondering about the friends who behaved like friends; I’m concerned that I was so off-base in thinking that certain people were indeed my close friends. The one friend I mentioned – as I’m feeling all the strangeness of being in a new town – I thought I’d look back on our friendship fondly, and was looking forward to maintaining a connection; now I’m stunned to have this memory of her behaviour. Lo J, if one of the people you thought was a close friend suddenly seemed to treat you like nothing, would you just think, oh well, and notice that someone else held a door for you? Wouldn’t you wonder wtf?
I had three friends that helped me move, and another couple that made sure to grab a coffee with me before I left, and two sets of social circles that had special outings to say farewell. All of these gestures meant so much to me. I “made time” for all of these people and they made time for me; really it is the first time in my life that I’ve had good community like this and was able to see it and appreciate it; some people that I didn’t even expect to hear from expressed that it would be a loss to our group that I was going.
It is only now, in the context of seeing how genuine kindness and interest works that I am forced to reassess what I thought was a close tie in one case; and in the other – well, I’m still left totally stunned and basically have to do the post-AC thing of somehow coming to terms with incomprehensible behaviour.
I hope I’m not over-analyzing; it would be one thing if it were people I barely knew. It’s that I thought I knew them; and thought I knew them well. With a bit of distance, re the friend, maybe I’ll look back and see the signs I missed.
Well, I would think, wtf, then I would focus on the behavior of the positive things that others would have done for me. Because that is where I am in my life. Because I know it isn’t about me. Your roommate showed you who she was all along. You have to really question what your motives were with your last gesture. Were you expecting something in return? Some miraculous change of character on her part? Perhaps her changing from a “pigs ear to a silk purse?” (Did I get that quote right? I’m horrible about that.) People are who they are in spite of you, Magnolia. You don’t have that power, no matter what gift you give, what you say, what actions you do. PERIOD. We are all separate from each other. It is a recurrent theme that I read in your posts that I see is an issue with you, this separating from others. I get it. I have struggled with it as well. I see it with your family (Dad), your roommate. (I have thought about you throughout my day, several times, and wished there were the right words to say to you. Funny, huh??) And the one friend that you said, “I thought I’d look back on our friendship fondly, and was looking forward to maintaining a connection; now I’m stunned to have this memory of her behavior.” You have how many great memories?? Focus on those.
Take responsibility for your part, Magnolia. What could you have done differently. You aren’t the victim. Empower yourself. Sometimes people don’t manage down our expectations. Sometimes we have unrealistic expectations. I am not saying this to shame you by any means. But people do have lives. And some people really do wait for others to call on them for help. They aren’t mind readers. A lot of people ask for help when they need it, whether it be for emotional support, help with a move, or just a hug/meal/shared glass of wine. What signals are you sending out to others?
Lo J,
Very wise advise! I believe it applies to most of us.
When I lost my brother to cancer, the majority of friends were loving and supportive, for which I am eternally grateful. There were two ‘good’ friends who were not there. At all!!! I was hurt and disappointed, but it forced me to recognize they really hadn’t ever been there , as they weren’t capable- I dissolved the relationships shortly thereafter, should have done it much sooner . This was my fault. I could have focused on these two, but i choose to focus on those who helped me get through the most difficult period I have ever experienced.
Remember, these people did not change overnight, but we choose to ignore and excuse that they were lousy friends, we are also responsible for continuing to have them in our lives, hoping they will change. This is not fair, nor realistic! Focus on the positive!
I’m always too busy, or busy when I want to avoid someone or something. For instance a man who is hitting on me that was a creep in my complex tried to strike up a conversation with me and as I was walking away I was saying “I’ve been very busy” as he was asking how I was doing and “I’m very busy, got to go” …
In the past I definitely dated those unavailable guys who said that they were too busy.
Now, to avoid that all together – and the help from this site of getting healthy and setting boundaries. I know that in a relationship I need, want and expect quality time and if a guy tells me he is busy most of the time, he will be history.
an excrept from a book emotional blackmail by susan forward
emotional blackmail is a powerful form of manipulation in whicj=h people close to us( you parents, boss, siblings, children…) threaten to punish us if we do not do what they want.
( if you do not behave the way i want you to, you will suffer)
just because there’s emotional blackmail in a close relationship does not mean it is doomed. It simply means that we need to honestly acknowledge and correct the behaviour that is causing us pain, putting these relationships back on a more solid foundation.
emotional blackmailers know how much we value our relationship with them. They know our vulnerabilities.
No matter how much they care about us, when they fear they won’t get their way, they use this intimate knowledge to shape teh threats taht give them the payoff tehy want: our compliance.
knowing that we want love or approval, our blackmailers threaten to withhold it or take it away altogether, or make us feel we must earn it.
for example, if you pride yourself on being generous and caring, the blackmailer might label you selfish or inconsiderate if you do not accede to his wishes.
our manipulators make it nearly impossible to see how they’re manipulatig us, they lay down a thick fog taht obscures their actions. Fog is shorthand way of referring to fear, obligation, and guilt, teh tools of the blackmailer’s trade.
Constantly threaten to end teh relationship if you do not do what they want?
threaten to make your life difficult if you do not do what they want?
regularly ignore or discount your wants and feelings?
constantly label you as selfish, greedy, uncaring when you do not give in to them?
some blackmailers are passive, some aggressive, some r direct, some let us know precisely what the consequences will be if we displease them, others emphasize how much we are making them suffer.
fear of loss, fear of change, fear of rejection, fear of losing power is a common ground, stretching beneath those who become blackailers. For some, these fears are rooted in a lengthy history of feeling anxious and inadequate. for others, they maybe a response to more recent uncertainities and stresses that have undermined their sense of themselves as secure competent people. triggering events such as rejection by a lover, the loss of a job, divorce, retirement or illness can easily turn someone close to us into a blackmailer. The blackmail is the ticket to feeling safe and in charge. no matter how confident they look on teh outside, blackmailers are operating out of high degrees of anxiety.
Without our help blackmail can not take root. Blackmailers operate when we let people know they have found our hot buttons and that we will jump when they push them. Our compliance rewards the blackmailer and when we reward them , we are letting them know that they can do it again.
The world of emotional blackmail is confusing. while some emotional blackmailers are clear in their threats, others may send us mixed signals, acting kindly much of the time and resorting to blackmail only occasionally.
We know that the other person likes us, and we let our memories od positive experiences overshadows our nagging feeling that something is wrong.
The 6 emotional blackmail symptoms are: a demand, resistance (might be in withdrawl or becoming less affectionate – the answer is NO)- pressure (they do not understand our feelings but rather pushes us to go in their terms, lecturing us), threats (as the resistance continues he will let her know that there would be consequences if she did not give him what he wants- “if you can not make this kind of commitment to me after all we have meant to each other, amybe it is time for us to see other people), compliance, repetition ( he saw that he succedded in his way so he will do it again – teh ground work is laid for a pattern of demands, pressure and capitulation.
Manipulation becomes emotional blackmail when it is used repeatedly to corce us into complying with the blackmailer’s demands, at the expense of our own wishes and well-being.
Great discussion on the use of the “busy” card! I have said it and I have heard it. It addresses the pattern of playing the option game and not making committments. I think on lin dating always holds out the option that someting better is just about to appear.
I am clearing out all the old hanger on men from the dating sites and making certain that I am putting forth the same degree of honesty that I expect to find. I think we hang on to marginal relationships out of fear of being lonely when in fact this practice perpetuates the syndrome.
I resolve to only allow local guys only and those who show some healthy communication patterns.
And Magnolia, the co-worker who is talking about the other co-worker… she’ll talk about you too. Stay away. Really. There are people out there who don’t gossip.
Ok I’m going to chip in here because there are a few lessons to be learned here that we can all benefit from. First off Magnolia, congratulations on your move. This is a wonderful opportunity for you although I’m sure that all of the change will make you feel unsteady and it’s not easy being the new person and also being in a new place. At times like this, it’s important to have a sense of belonging with the people who matter to you – your friends. Now I could be wrong as I only have the various comments from the past to go on but nothing that you’ve said about your now ex housemate says ‘friend’. You were flatmates *not* friends. You did not particularly like this person nor did you share anything here of her behaviour that suggested that she had any great love for you.
Friends help you out in your time of need – not pompous, self-involved flatmates who have so little awareness and manners that not only do they pile up their washing up as if you’ve moved out already, but she also seeks to remind you when you’re not invited to things that lots of others aren’t invited to.
Granted, this woman is quite the jackass but it is time to ask yourself what you gain from investing yourself in trying with her or getting tangled up in the drama? It’s not that this woman isn’t who she is but it’s also time to ask yourself why your attitude, mentality and behaviour hasn’t changed towards her?
She did not deserve the effort that you made. Yeah we all have the propensity to get sentimental at times like this but in your effort to do the whole I Am A Good Person and I’ll Show You By Making Us Part On A Good Note, you set yourself up for a kicking. Why is this person’s validation so important? Why does she matter so much?
Has it occurred to you in all of this time you’ve been insecure about this woman and ruminating over her that she is quite clearly insecure about you?
You are not at school anymore. You do not need to win over the aloof girl who *you* think is better than you. She is not better than you – it is up to you to accept you and not participate in this. The more you have tried with this woman is the worse you have made things for you. You send red flags about yourself when even when a person is rude and clearly not your friend, you keep trying. It is not sincere to try to force friendship that actually, let’s be real, you didn’t want.
There is no ‘rule’ that says that your landlord must become your friend because you’re both women.
And while it’s normal to be bothered about her behaviour temporarily, you certainly shouldn’t shortchange yourself OR your true friends who have all made efforts by putting all of your energy or even any of it into this woman.
What you hoped for was a fantasy that she was not in agreement on. What you wanted out of this situation and the sentimentality was not shared by her. You made too many assumptions and had hidden expectations in your actions and you were ‘hinting’. She ‘hinted’ back at you with her own disruptive behaviour in your last days.
Leave it be and stop feeding the drama. Be grateful for real friends and appreciate the fact that you can move on.
As an aside, lots of people gossip especially in workplaces. Just go about your business. It’s been a few days not a few months. There is plenty to discover. Start with a clean drama slate here.
As always, I’m still in search of the land of “Happy Medium” and “just being”. Thanks, Natalie.
This was such a fantastic piece for me to reflect on and really know that everything could have been written for me. been hanging around for an EUM for four years, on false promises, future faking and the point of being too busy. seen him for 6 and a half hours ( twenty minute pieces) in three months. absolutely mental i was.that man could find time for sports though and other such important things, yet if i asked for some time i was “demanding” ” putting pressure on. There has been no contact, and be it just for a week, i actually feel better. I am not getting moaned and whinged at, told i am ” giving him shit” all the time for asking to see him or being told i am a nightmare. Thank you R–N– youre a selfish effer with a heart like a stone, unsympathetic, unloving and unkind. I should have got rid of you years ago were i not so hopefull you would do what you said. but youre a liar and a cheat. you told me you were only married on paper yet youre still there four years later. God how stupid i feel. best of luck Loser. Thank you natalie i read you every day, youre my bible/ Love to you xxxx
I’ve been on both ends of this I’m busy equation. I admit I sometimes use it when I really don’t feel like hanging out with some one. And, I’m not lying to them about being busy, I am doing other things, but if I really wanted to hang out with them, I would make time. No question. I can look back and apply the same to me when I’ve been told they were too busy to see me, frequently. Once in a while people are too busy, for real, but if it becomes the norm instead of once in a while, you need to see it for what it is. They aren’t offering you space in their life, except when it’s to throw you a few crumbs to keep you on hold. I am currently limiting the amount of time I have for a guy friend of mine. Although he hasn’t come out and said it, I think he’s angling for more than friendship, so I DO manage how much space I give him in my life to manage his expectations of me and yes, I don’t want him thinking I am available for more. I’m on the fence whether I should come out and say I only want to be friends when he hasn’t come out and said he wants more. Maybe I’m being critical, but a grown man not coming out and just saying how he feels but trying to steer me into a romantic relationship just bugs. I do like him as a friend, he is a decent guy and he is part of a group I hang out with, and I am afraid if I broach the subject, he will be offended and the whole dynamic with the group will change and I will possibly lose the friendship with him. I don’t want to hang out with him as much as he asks me. When the’ I’m too busy card’ has been pulled on me in a relationship or in a dating situation, it does feel shitty. And, the ball is in my court at that point to either accept that someone doesn’t have or make space for me or move on. Sometimes the mixed signals make it hard to come to that conclusion. But what if you aren’t in a dating situation? Is it okay to be too busy or do you have to ‘have the talk’ with every person who may want more than you do (but is ambiguous about it). I don’t want to act like an ass clown, but is it bad to manage expectations of someone who really isn’t in the position to expect more? This is a grey area for me.
I must confess I´ve been guilty of using the too busy excuse myself (as I´ve also been handed it many times by the weirdo EUM) – and I mean guilty in that it makes me feel very bad about myself.
Just last week, I told this nice but extremely unattractive guy I was too busy to go out with him. Mainly because I didn´t want to get his expectations for romance up – aaargh yes exactly as the ACs do.
So, I was talking this over with my mom. She said I should be able to tell him honestly what I feel about him. Something like Listen, you´re funny and I love talking with you because we share the same interests but don´t ever think this will go any further because you´re shorter than me and overweight…
So that sounded terrible! That would leave him looking bad and me as well – like a complete shallow bitch! So, what would be a nicer way to phrase it? I don´t want to do to another what the EUM did to me (though of course I never did string this guy along, I thought I was just being plain friendly, and I never used him for an ego stroke or free shag or whatever).
If that’s the truth, it *is* being shallow. I don’t think there is a nicer way to put it. If some man told me that, it wouldn’t hurt my feelings, I’d feel grateful I’d been spared.
No you need a minimum of attraction to start and maintain a relationship. It can´t be based on goodwill and amicable chats.
(And not to offend anyone but I just don´t fancy obese men, but if you do, Sunshine, good for you.)
Right, I agree with you…and making it about you not being attracted to him is different than making it about him being overweight.
“This will never go any further because I’m not attracted to you.”
is different from
“This will never go any further because you are shorter than me and overweight.”
Owning up that you are simply not attracted is not being shallow.
Trying to make it about the other persons’ physical appearance is.
So now that you say that the truth is you are simply not attracted, the truth may not be so hurtful to him. The truth sounds like it’s, “I can tell you want more from me than I want from you, and I’m just not developing feelings that way, I don’t feel attracted to you and I don’t want to lead you on,” and whatever else is true. Which would be less hurtful than pulling a “busy” act, which is insulting to those who can see right through it.
Lilia: Sorry to put it bluntly, but I think in this case your mom is completely wrong. Telling him the truth would be rude and wouldn’t do any good at all.
Sometimes “too busy” is really the most polite way to say “no thanks”, especially if you don’t know that other person very well. The only thing is that you have to stick to it. Don’t try to be “friends” with him, because it wouldn’t be fair in my book.
Even if judging somebody by their appearance might sound a bit superficial, fact is still that you aren’t attracted to him. It happens. Simply say “no” to him (or “too busy”, if it does the trick) in the most polite way possible, without any convoluted and even possibly hurtful explanations. Then leave him alone.
EllyB
I agree with you. It’s insulting.
Lillia
This cuts to the core issue of being a FBG. Quit the people pleasing. Ironically, with the people pleasing we can end up hurting people even more. You’re not in relationship with this man and you haven’t dated him. It’s fine to say you’re too busy, if he tries again you may have to be more blunt and say “Thank you for asking but this isn’t something I want to pursue”. Sometimes you just have to say no. We do a lot of hinting but men don’t get it! (I’m not sure women do either. )
I think Nat’s post is more for those of us in a relationship or a semblance thereof.
You aren’t even dating this man. And it doesn’t even sound like you’re friends.
If you like him but are not romantically interested, you can tell him as much without listing specific physical attributes that you find unappealing (which would just be hurtful and unnecessary). In other words, “you´re funny and I love talking with you because we share the same interests” is fine, but change the rest of the sentence to indicate that you aren’t interested in anything more than friendship.
Sorry, but I’m very wary of all this “offering friendship to soften a rejection” stuff. I don’t think it’s polite. It’s disrespectful of the other person’s feelings. He’s been rejected, and he has to process this. Friendship won’t help him. Quite the opposite. Even if you seemed to become something like friends before, it’s time to stay away now I think.
I’m size XS and relatively pretty, but I’m no Scarlett Johansson (which means I’m not a show-stopping beauty). I’ve had quite a few guys reject me on these grounds. Staying “friends” with them never did me any good. It simply diminished my sense of self-worth.
Furthermore, to me it sounds as if he is a guy who intentionally pursues women who aren’t interested in him. Who don’t value him. He might be EU. That’s just a guess – but haven’t many of us done the same thing? I’ve been there for sure.
I totally concur: friendship is not the consolation prize given to the loser in the love game.
Lilia – just say that you value his friendship (truth) but that you aren’t interested in a romance with him (truth). You don’t need to say why you aren’t interested in more; it’s your prerogative to not be attracted to him.
Thanks for your replies, I wanted to add though that I (and my mother!) did never seriously contemplate to go tell someone he is overweight, it was more in the mood of “wouldn´t it be nice if you could tell everyone your honest opinion” – because we both know you just can´t do that.
Anyway.
What happened in this particular situation is that I tried to do the polite hinting, saying I´m too busy (as Grace said). But he kept insisting, I got about 4 emails in one day, some of them asking if I had received his previous emails. I found that pretty anxious. Then, in the last one he sounded offended. This before I even got to say anything.
So yes, I agree with Ellyb that he must be one of those guys who set themselves up for rejection going after women who don´t show any interest at all. EU? The other thing I found a bit immature is that he told me he´d prefer the live fast/die young schenario instead of having a long and quiet life (this from someone who is close to 40 and a father).
So well, after his offended email I sent him one listing his qualities and that I value his friendship (very lame, I know) because I felt sorry for him.
I know this post was related to being too busy IN a relationship but I just wanted to mention this because it shows how difficult it is to have to reject someone.
Hello, everyone,
I can so relate to the “I am too busy” scheme. My mother was always too busy taking care of her patients or my sister and it took me years to realize this would never change, because it is not really her “busyness’, but other issues, even as she has always expected me to be available to her, the rest of the family and even her friends (not to my friends that she forbade me to even talked to on the phone when she was visiting). Ditto with my ex or exes; only now I am starting to see the pattern. One of them even said to me:”Men are supposed to have hobbies, and so tennis is #1 for me, but you will be #2, because I love you.” Uhm… WHAT? (That is what I am thinking now, “WHAT”?)
There is one confusing issue that I had with this scenario: I correctly felt such attitude was not right, that I was being used, if not abused, but when I confided in my mother or friends, they always said:”But, you are a woman, you have to be more understanding. After all, he loves you and wants to marry you/wants to be with you/ whatever.” Also: “Men are busier than women generally” and other such BS. I see that now, btu at times it felt like there was this collusion in the world about what is “expected” and “appropriate” and I could not figure out why I had that sick feeling listening to this.
The new version that I have heard lately, after my divorce, is: “Your schedule is more flexible than mine, so you should drive to meet with me etc.” It took me another year to realize this is also BS…
I guess just some examples not to fall for the “I am busy” excuse, but also for the “supporting excusers” that can really mess with your mind since they are often people close to you whom you trust.
P. – I totally agree. The busyness scheme is so hurtful when it’s played by people close to you. I am constantly being told by my sisters that I do not have a life and therefore, their agenda comes first. And, the agendas of their “busy” friends, “busy” spouse, “busy” kids, and any and all other “busy” people that come along, including my xEUM.
Recently, I’ve started relating to my family more like coworkers than friends. I try to be polite and friendly, remember birthdays and holidays, etc. but stay out of the gossip and keep my personal life out of our conversations. I’m trying to love from a safe distance, from my own life, you might say.
LoJ, Allison, NML:
Thanks so much for all the straight talk. I couldn’t see the behaviour on my part that you describe. It is true that I thought she was “better” than me when I first moved in with her. I felt flattered that she asked. The learning curve that I have had since (met, dated, and broke up with the AC during my tenure living there) has had me see that I am equal and learn about the ways I communicate that I don’t think I am.
Allison, I appreciate the anecdote. Perhaps I have confused “focus on the positive” with “excuse lousy behavior”? I thought I *was* focusing on the positive by focusing on the good points at the end, but everyone’s feedback here suggests I’m not totally getting it.
“You made too many assumptions and had hidden expectations in your actions and you were ‘hinting’. She ‘hinted’ back at you with her own disruptive behaviour in your last days.” I’m going to think about my motives for gift-giving. I suppose I thought I was doing what was expected … I’m going to have to think on that.
But I won’t dwell so much as to make a huge issue out of her in the long-, or even medium-term. I just want to find the learning in it. The thing is, a different woman who once called me best-friend, and now calls me her “longest-standing” friend, has always been intermittent and busy – she’s an ambitious lawyer, and like that with everyone I think, but now I wonder – that has been my standard. She’s my “best friend.” I’ve had more “exposure” to the jackasses and busy-ladies and less to the people who were actually “there” for me: that’s what I want to look at. I deserve better? What does that even look like on a day-to-day basis (when not in the heightened sentimental space of goodbyes)?
This whole thing can only be a good experience. I can tell you ladies are rooting for me. I knew I’d get some clarity here.
By the way, I think I see this time (before it happens) the way I have allowed myself in the past to get “taken under the wing” of the office busybody. My sense of belonging is shifting tectonically this week: I got so much support from the poetry community in my old city I’m really seeing everything very differently. I had no idea I had so much support there. I may wobble, but I hope you all stay with me as I remind myself to notice the good stuff around me, tell myself that I rock and don’t need bully-shelter from the other kids on the playground (many of whom will also rock) as I step into this new scene.
Magnolia,
Funny how life just doesn’t slow down a bit for us to absorb our lessons before the next is upon us. Lessons and introspection are constant. Sometimes it’s good to just sit back with a cup of tea (or a beer if you choose) and take a break from the trying and just be for a moment. That is a lesson too. Good luck at your job and new town. I personally love clean slates.
This article really spoke to me, iv been stung many-a-time by the ridiculously busy BS!!!
Im on NC too with my most recent mr unavailable who I pretty much forced into a relationship. im totally ashamed of my behaviour now, even though I was equipped with Baggage Reclaim (which by the way – im absolutely loving it and it keeps me sane) I still stupidly fell head over heels despite ALOT of amber flags and probably some red ones too… the main one though was he was ALWAYS too busy. I didn’t expect him to give up his friends and hobbies for me at all, but it was as if EVERYthing was more important than me… I felt really un-special, unimportant and just like an annoyance in his life.
Goodbye and Good riddence to that one!
Just wanted to vent a bit, thanks for reading
xx
PS everyones comments keeps me strong, so thankyou again for that!
Ahhh … just be. Enjoy the excitement, the adventure: you don’t need to be taken in under anybody’s wing. You can stand alone on your own and shine ’cause you got this lady!
@Magnolia–I can relate to the flatmate issue! I suppose it’s a bad habit to let your imagination wander as to why he/she/they treated you without the consideration you would have liked, but Natalie brings up the most crucial point: what do you have to gain from thinking about it? Surely, a million reasons could contribute to why she acted the way she did (i.e., she isn’t good at goodbyes, perhaps she is jealous of your new opportunities, or she just doesn’t want to be your friend), but in the end it’s not worth the time or energy to focus on it. Instead, think of all the great things that lie in your future path!
This is the first time I’ve written here, but I’ve followed Baggage Reclaim for about a year and been so impressed with everyone and their progress. I spent the past two years in an on and off relationship with an unhealthy man who in the end stopped making time for me and treating me the way I deserve to be treated. It’s so difficult to walk away in the moment, because you almost want to believe they will snap back to the person you knew before and realize they have been a jerk (and he has definitely come around apologizing, blaming his depression, financial issues, dysfunctional family background, living situation, and now recent diagnosis of Aspergers–all the while doing nothing to remedy any of these.) These people cannot live up to the standards of honesty, maturity, and self-awareness that you choose in your own life. I think that in the case of my ex, he may very well want to be that person (or even think he is!), but the truth is, he is not capable of it. So long as he is not honest with himself, why should I expect him to be honest with me? Or keep commitments with me? People that do not love themselves will not love you. People that do not respect themselves will not respect you.
I still have my ups and downs, but there’s one thing I’m struggling with and would love some advice: how do you deal with the embarrassment and anger after it all ends? I know he’s not right for me, and I know I did the right thing ending it. When I reflect on it all, however, I get so angry with myself and can’t believe I let him treat me that way. Since going NC I have regained my sense of self, but how do I forgive myself for my past behavior? How do you forgive and let go of the anger towards the EU? I am not actively angry towards him or the situation, but sometimes I feel this bitterness and injustice about it all. I really don’t want to resentful :/
Hi PhoneixRises,
I’m glad you finally posted. You posed excellent questions: So long as he is not honest with himself, why should I expect him to be honest with me? Or keep commitments with me?” Perfect. In my case, his busyness was our way of avoiding the dishonesty and deception.
Your statement “People that do not love themselves will not love you. People that do not respect themselves will not respect you” rang a bell with me but from the perspective that I didn’t love or respect myself which is why I got involved with a MM. I’ve been really working on self-love/care/respect.
Good for you for walking away and not wasting any more time waiting for him to snap back. Regarding the anger, it is a natural phase of the grieving process. I had to work through it without getting stuck. BR and Natalie’s books helped a lot. Yeah, letting go of the anger, embarrassment, resentment, and bitterness while working toward forgiveness and acceptance is the key. I’m still working toward forgiveness or at least acceptance. It takes time and a lot of work. Natalie has some really great posts on the topics of mistakes, forgiveness, and acceptance…plug the words into the search function. Wishing you the best. Look at it this way, when the next guy itemizes his busy itinerary as a way of managing your expectations, you’ll know to take a parachute and jump. When you make yourself a priority, these types don’t seem that special or even the slightest bit interesting.
“Behind every excuse is the real reason and the real reason is that aside from considering themselves to be ‘super-important’, they also don’t want to make the effort. ”
Hi Natalie, me here AngelFace.
I’ve been traveling and last month went on a dinner date with a man that happens to be an X-Pro football player. We live in different cities and both of us discussed desire to get to know each other. ( didn’t jump into bed).
He has been sending stupid texts, so I did not answer last few, and told him by phone call that I will not communicate by texts and by phone, dates, and visits. Was going to give him til this Sunday, and then block his number.
He called me mid-day knowing I was at work and left a message-agreeing to talk on phone but here it is 10 pm & No call, No effort!?! This guy is probably so used to women chasing him./ well Not me. Still might put him into No Contact-CAUSE there is a F L A G on the field.
Ps: thanks for all the help, update: My X: harem guy, narcissist, sadist, sex addict is now a papa & that rouelette ball (he) is landing on the baby mama. Cheaper to keep her, and needs her money and credit score to buy his house.
I’m tired from overwork ( a trigger) and am want a loving mutual relationship & will enforce my boundaries and best judgement to create the happiness I Deserve!!!!! Thanks Nat, and All have a good weekend!
Meant to say: will talk on phone , go on dates and visits. His turn to come up to Seattle. I might relocate to Hawaii cause I love the sun ocean and sky.
AngelFace
I hope you’re not basing this on one date a month ago. Way too early to think about relocation. I get that our minds can start wandering off. Don’t let it. Unless I’ve missed something this is a man you have seen once in four weeks.
Also, be wary of long distance. I was the queen of long distance relationships (I even managed to have a long distance marriage) but now I am seeing someone who lives up the road and I LOVE IT. After our long days at work, and our commute home we can meet up for a simple walk around the park.
I’m not saying that long distance can never work. My brother’s wife relocated to be with him. However, I see that she is paying the price for that with her family being in another country. It IS a big deal. It may be worth the sacrifice and the risk for someone who is genuine but I’m afraid I see no indication of that here. We shouldn’t have to cajole them into calling and visiting.
Surely there are men in Seattle?
I will spare ppl the details but have chosen to let go of my r.ship w my sister y.day after (yet another) round of shoddy treatment using the ‘too busy’ excuse in an incredibly (hurtful &) inappropriate manner. As I’m dealing with ill health & am mostly housebound, (& live alone), that now leaves me basically devoid of any sort of regular contact with anyone, other than weekly visits from a counsellor.
– LOL! Having let go of my so called bestie for shoddy treatment also (at least temp & who knows – maybe for good), I prefer to stand alone in my power & truth, however, than to be accompanied in relationships which diminish me & are therefore a lie. I DO have friends – they’re just either living far away nowadays (as tends to happen) or perhaps work related so I’m not comfortable revealing the details of my current health status out of mindfulness for my privacy when I eventually return to my career. Otherwise, I’m focused on my studies like a lazer beam & am noticing how understimulating they are. I’m wondering if the future might eventually bring changes in that area also? I once dreamed of studying medicine (believe it or not) & investigated my options in quite some depth… Certainly wasting life ‘chasing’ relationships or cooking & cleaning for some bloke was never destined to be my lot, LOL! Be lovely to meet someone but not bemoaning any great loss if I don’t! LOL Too busy conquering mountains! LOL I couldn’t help notice Kayla Harrison’s Gold in Judo @ the Olympics. She overcame testifying against her former coach for sexually abusing her as a child to achieve that. I have 2 second dan black belts in two different styles of martial arts. In one, I am still the first & only female in the world to hold this ranking. Otherwise, I too am slowing taking a perp of child abuse to court. I may never be an olympian but to me – I am already a champion b/c I not only survived but also THRIVED. I made this up today. I hope it inspires someone. “Don’t let others see your tears. Instead, transcend your pain by the height of your acheivements.” Peace out. T 🙂
I don’t know, long distance can work in my experience if there is a mutual commitment to it and an end in sight.
I’ve done it before and it sucked. I was lied to, taken advantage of and hurt like hell. I swore off it… but as it happened, this came along.
Now… it’s different. We talk on phone and skype daily, text during the day, see each other at least once a fortnight, go on holidays together and fit that around our busy schedules. We are both upper management, busy as hell, with responsibilities and stress, but we make time for each other because it matters.
The matters part is what makes the difference.
My partner works an average of 10-12 hours a day and travels a lot. So do I. But in this world of communication? If someone doesn’t find time for you, it’s because they don’t want to.
Magnolia I just wanted to say a BIG congrats on the new job & move. They’re both really big things. Goodness knows what’s up with the the ex flatmate but it seems safe to conclude she doesn’t meet ‘friend’ criteria going forward. That’s really all you need to know. I too have felt a bit ‘egg on my face-ish’ with similar miss matched situations at times, but really, it’s HER loss. The great news for you is you’ve just been saved the hassle of wasting anymore of your VALUABLE TIME on her ie BONUS! T 😉
Lilia
I say I wish u success in ur search
I do not want to waste ur time
We are not compatible
I would not say im busy it is known it is a lame excuse, I prefer honesty
I do not mention reasons for rejection cause that shall intensify the rejection also it is not my bussiness n I m not asked for unless he asked me for reasons then I shall be honest careful n brief cause that might help him in the future if he has a problem to change
I donot change it to friendship caz I doubt he shall change his feelings even if he asked
Have a nice day all
Rana thankyou for the post re emotional blackmail. I read it with some concern questioning my own beh w my sister. Throughout our adult lives we have spent long periods of many years estranged, always initiated by me after hurtful, controlling, boundry violating, behaviour on her part. It is an interesting r.ship. We could not be more different in terms of our life decisions & personalities (she is mostly unhappily married, uneducated & is raising 6 children) I wont elaborate as it would be off topic to go into but I realise, it’s not that I’m cutting off to be manipulative, as indeed such a split is a decision of last resort (I have suggested we have counselling but she refuses) & painful for me to make as I love my sister very much. Rather, it’s a little like the other r/ships here in that I simply need to protect myself from being subjected to maltreatment as my self esteem takes a nose dive otherwise. I have in the past talked things through before allowing regular contact to be restab but this seems to be to no avail. Perhaps I like Magnolia have expected someone who PRENTENDS to have some self awaeness (but really doesn’t) to actually HAVE some? Whatever the case I feel a little sad to have made this chioce again but feel I have no other option as her beh is really that hurtful & intolerable. The only thing I can think of so as NOT to be mistaken for being emotionally manipulative is to leave the door slightly ajar should she ever change her mind abt us having some therapy together. That way she will know I havent outright rejected her. It’s a very sad state of affairs. We were dumped in childrens homes together as toddlers & @ 3 yo I was thrust into the role of literally mothering her (she was 12 mths). I copped by far the majority of the sadistic abuse but could not protect her fully toward the later yrs, as by then we were seperated. She misplaces anger she should feel toward our borderline mother toward me! It’s very sad. Today she dotes on the mother who abused her so terribly as a child. And the ONLY person who ever did anything to try to protect her cops all the sh*t ie ME! I have to keep remembering. I am NOT her mother…
Honestly Lilian? Firstly, I’m so sorry to hear you’ve found yourself in such a pickle with such an AC. He sounds AWFUL! You on the other hand sound like you’re starting to see the light 🙂 I will only post to you once b.c I’m very pushed for time atm so can’t can’t get into a to/fro exchange but here is what comes to mind:
RE what to do, you need to make a DECISION about what you WANT do (preferrably one based upon what is in yr own best interests) & then ACT upon whatever CHOICE you make. I don’t know how long you’ve been seeing this guy but it sounds as though your attatchment to him is reasonably strong
Thus I understand the process you are going through probably FEELS anything but simple or cut & dried. That said, however, at it’s very core, notwithstanding whatever history you may share with his man, it IS simple in the sense that
1. you suspect that you are not the only woman he is involved with & that you are an OOW
2. he is currently emotionally abusing you i.e using withdrawal as a form of punishing you for whatever he is displeased with.
Those two things, right there, are very powerful motivators to be thinking to yourself, ‘do I REALLY need this sort of B.S is my life?’ The answer from a healthy person would be HELL NO!
My suggestions are:
1. Get Nats Guide to No Contact as a start on the action front. It might help you to prepare for what lies ahead.
2. Google emotional abuse & silent treatment. You are currently a victim of it. Decide that being a victim of abuse SUCKS & instead empower yourself by doing whatever it takes to learn how to protect yourself from all forms of abuse from here on in.
3. If you haven’t done so already, find a good therapist to help with the latter. You may be a person who has never had a single shred of abuse from anyone ever before in your life, however, it’s a tad more likely that somewhere along the way you learned from SOMEONE BEFORE THIS GUY, that emotional abuse (or perhaps other forms of abuse also) were ‘ok’. Not that they actually WERE ok, but by the fact that it was happening & either you did not recognise it and/or for whatever reasons, were powerless to stop it. This work often lies at the very CORE of issues for women who find themselves in abusive r.ships. Be your own best friend & if you haven’t already, & if you can afford to, see a therapist as even if I’m wrong about the aforementioned, at the very least, they will support you to extricate yourself from this soul destroying situation.
All the best. T x
This is one of my biggest pet peeves – always has been, even since before finding out about this blog, and likely always will be. If the President of the United States can make time for date nights & bring the First Lady with him to different countries & events & etc., then YOU, Mr. or Ms. I’m-So-Busy-And-So-Important, have absolutely NO excuse whatsoever and need to get over yourself. (The same goes for non-romantic relationships.)
Why is it that they’re never busy in the beginning and in time, they become too busy? What do you ladies think of men who can greet you good morning by text EVERY single day yet you hear absolutely nothing from them ALL day. I mean like complete radio silence.
4Maree: texts mean very little. There are women on this blog who received good morning texts each morning from their MARRIED partners. Texts are crumbs. A text takes two seconds to send, and then they think they don’t have to contact you for the rest of the day because crumbs are what you have accepted as enough.
I have a strong suspicion that one of the bums who was (unsuccessfully) trying to get at me last year was sending all his intended women the same lovey-dovey “good morning” text at the same time. You can do that, if you put them all on a text list.
The texts never used my name; that was the main reason I thought they were SMS spam for a long list of potential victims.
Just one more thing to watch out for.
OMGsh do you know I thought the same hing and dismissed it!!! I said hmm he sends good morning every morning w/o my name i felt as if he programmed his phone to send it to me or was jusst sending it to a lot of girls!!! WOW this just confirmed it!
4Maree
Most mornings I get a text from the man. he starts the day with prayer and he prays for me. But we also text during the day, call and see each other twice a week or so (I’m not keeping tabs on it, but it feels appropriate to how long we’ve been dating).
If I was just getting one text a day I’d be moving along pronto.
I hate to say it, but this lame excuse is just a cover up for what the person really wants to say, but doesnt want to come out and say it.
“you are not important to me”
And if you really are important to that person, and they STILL use these lame excuses, then, the other person is probably a USER, and only thinks of you during times of THEIR need.
If you hear this, just back off, and adjust your expectations downward, and reciprocate how they treat you. If they call you, put them off, with the I am busy line, and see how they respond. Its been my experience that these types of people go bat crazy when THEY are put on hold.
Wow. And wow.
I discovered your site, Nat, a while ago, as I’ve been trying to untangle myself from an unavailable partner for months now. The busy excuse was something that came up more recently and for a while I just bought it as we are long distance – him on the west coast and me on the east coast in the US. He’s been struggling financially and working hard manual labor and I’ve been trying to be understanding. But for so long, I would always feel rushed in our communications or that we were running out of time or that we could talk only when he was available.
I have to say this site is so right on and has been bringing me many realizations. We were together for four years. He pursued me very strongly and never having experienced that love or acceptance or attention or validation from someone before (especially someone as handsome as him) I fell in. And deep. In November of last year, though, I came back from a trip to see him not feeling very satiated and that was the beginning of the end. I knew we wanted different things, my needs were changing, but I couldn’t come to terms with it. How could something so good, so amazing, so wonderful not be meant to last – even though we were talking about the future, life together being bicoastal, etc etc etc. I trusted him and I really believed he had good intentions – I do believe he still does, but I think he is stuck in his own patterns in regards to relationship and is deluded in regards to what he has been doing.
We finally broke up in May – over my birthday – and at this point, I was still working so hard to please him and he was withdrawn and unavailable in his actions and behaviors but telling me he loved me and wanted to be with me. I kept believing him. So we broke up and for two weeks had no communication. I started getting my spirit back.
THEN he called me crying and told me he missed me and that we had come so far that we were foolish to give up now. (Granted, we did a lot of good work together and I did learn a lot about myself and relationships and there was a lot of good, hearty value to our time together that I am grateful for. This is why I think I had a hard time realizing what was really going on). So we started reconciling over the phone. I was skeptical, but since being apart was painful (despite the fact that I was starting to feel better overall) and I didn’t really want to be broken up (at least wouldn’t admit that to myself) I went back. He made plans to come visit me and once he booked the flight, I started getting sick – first with intense jaw pain (repressed anger, anyone?) and then with sore throat and then I lost my voice a day before he was due to arrive. So he came and he just left on Monday. I won’t go into details but what I realized being in his presence is that I felt heavy. There was no joy. We did fun things but I did not feel like we were having fun. I felt lonely. There was virtually no emotional connection. What was once intensely passionate and full of affection was now feeling very dud like. And once I realized these were my feelings and they were not going away and acknowledged that I could not ignore my voice of “break up with him already!” playing over and over in my brain, I just told him, the day he was leaving that I couldn’t do it anymore. We wanted different things. My feelings have changed. I love him, care about him, but I can’t go forward. There’s nothing left to do. We ran a course. It was good. Enjoy your life. Have your freedom. Goodbye.
Fuck it was hard. But I was blinded for so long and I did not listen to my feelings. I didn’t trust my own feelings. My own intuition. I wanted so badly for the relationship to work, to please him, to have that validation from him and being in a couple that I was ignoring my own wisdom and emotional intelligence.
I feel really grateful. And I feel daunted about the separation process but I know it’s really the right thing to do. I need my energy back.
Thank you for this site. It’s invaluable.
Interesting article as I have been the one accused of being “too busy” I have really resented men who expect me to have no life just hoping for them to walk into it and make it complete. I’m happy to make room and also include that someone special in my life, I’m happy to figure it out and find a way to talk, see them, text, quick hello or an email just to bring a smile. At times I have had to go up to two weeks either due to mine, theirs or both of ours schedules. The way I see it you can be legitmately busy loving life, your friends, family and work, squeezing enjoyment out of every second of the day but when that special someone shows up smiling and inviting them in is easier than you think. Cheers to my fellow busy beavers who never settle to have their life fulfilled by someone else but who recognize when and how to make room when that person arrives.
It’s a hard pill to swallow when you care about someone that they simply don’t make you a priority.People make time for the things that are important,don’t let anybody fool you,I recently had to say so long to someone who thought it was acceptable to be really neglectful,I didn’t want to say goodbye but for my own self respect I had no choice,nobody is too busy to take twenty seconds out of their day to text “I love you and I’m thinking about you”,being too busy is an avoidance mechanism,either through fear of intimacy or simply lack of interest,for those “Busy Bees”I wish you the best
Just to update on my post. Its been 13 days now no contact and though thats not a lot, it has surpassed the amount of days i have had no contact with him before. I wrote to natali and called him a colonic EUM and thats what he was. so after getting rid of my Colonic Irritation lol, how do i feel,? well better really, the time spent in no contact really makes you reflect on the situation. Up to now I have no intentions about contacting him. it was his birthday yesterday and i never sent a text or anything, ususally I would have. so to get past that was another milestone. I wish you all the best in whatever you all do and really feel for you all going through pain. hard to believe what we go through really when you look back. If i hadnt have found this site i think i would have cracked up. Thank you Natalie x
Natalie, your posts are always on point. You speak the truth. I love it.