Have you ever been in a situation where if someone else were to tell you that they were in it, you’d be telling them to run for the hills, yet despite this, you’re still there?
I’ve been in some situations where I look back and wonder if I was smoking crack but at the time, the chaos, the absurdity, seemed so normal and there was a part of me wondering if I was being “too harsh” [in recognising the loud code red alerts] and so I second-guessed everything that my mind and body was screaming at me but that I was pushing down, after all, what if this was going to be my fairy tale ending? I think as well, when something is so outrageous but you’re having a good time with this person or you’re inclined to see or should I say, magic up the ‘good’ in people, you can be inclined to rationalise the outrageous, hoping and praying that the outrageous is a blip, the result of desperate moment and that with the love of the right person, they would have no need to do that thing to you.
When you try to bury something outrageous, it becomes an outrageous lie that reflects a betrayal of the self.
Love doesn’t need lies and deception and no matter what somebody claims is their reason for lying to us and possibly others, it is a code red alert to hit pause and depending on how far and wide the lie goes and whether this person is even making amends, it’s time to take a parachute and jump, even if your heart isn’t on board with the truth yet–it’ll get on board when you leave and start telling you the truth instead of denying, rationalising, minimising and excusing so that you can continue with the lie.
In today’s Advice Wednesday (it’s back and in video format), I help Sherry understand why she needs to make her exit. It’s all I can do not to stick on an orange jumpsuit and come through her roof intervention style!
The big takeaway from this situation that can be applied to any and all situations, is never ignore red flags (code amber and red alerts) or your gut and intuition and always take assertive action when confronted with anything related to honesty and integrity because somebody who does not truly care about being honest and their integrity, cannot treat you with love, care, trust and respect. You will be seen as a means to an end as they advance their self-interest.
Have you ever been in a situation that now that you’re out of it, you realise how outrageous it was? What was the clincher for you that finally gave you the impetus to get out? If you have any insights or some advice, please do share.
Take care of you,
Nat
Add to favorites
Beautifully said, Natalie! You are in danger, Sherry. A married man should always be a “code red”/red flag, because he is giving off commitment issue vibes and he is unavailable, but a man married to two women really needs to be a double red flag! Tell a loved one Sherry, and please get help out of this situation.
Goodness, this reminds me when I thought I could change someone who was a living red flag. He was a lier, a cheat, he was out to get my money , my time, he used to abuse me verbally and made my life a real hell, even though I thought that man was the answer to everything . It took me months of not answering the phone and not answering his emails and still crying till I finally woke up and it all seemed a terrible dream, a bad trip, something so obviously bad that I couldn’t believe I was caught up in that.
I’ve just broken up with a guy I’ve been seeing for 2 months 1/2. This is a happy-ending story: I’ve learned to take red flags seriously and act upon them.
The guy was nice and, at the beginning, polite, respectful, present. Unfortunately, as soon as things got more stable (after the first month), he slowly started to change his behavior. Yellow flag 1: we decide to meet at 11 for a brunch. At 11:05 he writes me that he’s at the cafe. At 11:10 he writes that he will have to meet a client (on a Sunday) last-minute so we can’t go on with our plan (the client wasn’t an important one, mind you. Not at all. He wasn’t even a “real” client, he could have postponed it, no pb). Yellow flag 2: he doesn’t communicate much while he’s on a trip, and my gut feeling tells me it’s not OK. It starts to become a little more difficult to male plans with him. Yellow flag 3: we have a small fight. I start pouting (i know….). He gets angry, and tells me “You have to learn to…”. Plus his anger didn’t show, but it was more of a cold anger. There’s nothing worse than cold anger, in my opinion. It hides a very dark personality. At this point I wait, eyes open, to check if I am over exaggerating things like the “cold rage” one, because of my ex super EUM super dark-souled. Red flag 1: he always wants to have sex, and if I say no, he insists. Not forcefully, mind you, nicely and sweetly: but he insists. This was where I should have stopped seeing him, I know, but he was so nice that his insisting kind of became invisible… Red flag 2: We bicker again. “Cold anger” + disappearing for 3 whole days on his side. I break up.
In the future, I want to be smart enough to break up at the first red flag 😉 I still have a lot to learn. But the positive thing is that I got better at trusting myself, the whole time I had my eyes very open, and it was the dating phase, nothing more than that.
I think the only way to this is NOT needing a relationship. I mean, we all need love and a fulfilling relationship with a committed partner, but at this point in my life I don’t need it to feel whole. Plus, after the Super EUM, and a lot of work on myself, I finally TRUST my gut. My emotions are my best friends: they are like lights in the dark, they help me see things that my brain doesn’t register. It feels extremely empowering, like as if I were standing on a much solider ground.
Thank you Nat, you played a big role in this!
Misa,
So good to read your story! And yes, you are so right: this is a happy-ending. I have such a similar story as yours! Flirting married Ass-clown ex-colleague, and my reaction to his advances, completely shook my value system and self worth. Thank you Nat for writing this blog! It came on my path at just the right time 2 years ago and I have kept checking back regularly since.
Fast forward to 6 months ago when a guy I met pulled out all the stops to make me feel special. Seemingly so, so smitten with me… and my red flag recognition system needs some more honing too! But as Nat explains so eloquently, these guys are not (just) a victim that we need to save with all our love and care. Yes, they have issues that are may be bigger than themselves at times, but to act the way like your guy acted: that is selfish, opportunistic and being a coward. These men (and women) can be so dangerous to our emotional health.
Life is such a beautiful thing! We don’t need this drama in our lives.
Thank you Nat, Mira, you all for being here and giving me a portion of truth when I need some.
Thx Natalie and readers! This is the kick I’ve been needing.
Please get away from him otherwise I’ll have to come through your roof in my orange jumpsuit just like I promised!! Hugs and take care.
I am! But I have to admit, I would love to see you in action!! OMG I can so picture it! Thanks again, Nat, and also for answering so quickly and telling me exactly what my gut has been telling me all along. For some reason, I have a hard time listening to ME!! <3
So glad to see you are following what Natalie said! It’s hard to see clearly sometimes when you are in it. Always listen to your gut. I have been in a similar situation and once I walked away from it my whole world opened up and now I have the most amazing man in my life.
Dear ladies…. Brilliant article as usual Nat , thanks . It took a diagnosis of breast cancer for me to ‘wake-up’ to all red flags of my ex as He went from being there when he ‘needed’ me (mostly for sex) to disappearing completely when I told him of my illness…. My one and only good thing to come out of the last few months is realising how deceived id been by this seemingly charming good looking guy who I’d foolishly allowed to take advantage of my lack of self worth and not waiting around for another single crumb of him. Thank god I didn’t waste anymore of my precious time on him and Surviving BC and realising I deserve better motivates me further – I can do this alone and so can u all too…… Group hug! xxx
Survivor!
Wow!!! You are strong! You survived a wuss and BC at the same time. You are an inspiration.
Yes, group hug!
Sherry, I too have loved my share of losers, liars and assclowns but I yield the title of world’s most gullible sucker to you. Jeeze, girl, the guy is a flake and a bigamist. The idea that he told you about his effed up life is even creepier. He expected you to not only accept it but aid and abet in his crimes. In Texas we love corny slogans, so here is one for you. This guy is worse than a cow turd. He is the seed inside the turd that grows into a shabby looking flower called a turd blossom. Pour some ammonia or bleach on that turd blossom. Kill it, then wake up. Buy yourself some roses and erase every trace of this scumbag. No contact, ever. You owe him no explanation. Run.
Love advice Wednesday! Yay! And now in video! Double yay!!
I feel that Integrity is a word and characteristic that needs a serious revival across all aspects of life/society. So pleased to hear that word here, although it does run through all your work anyway. Integrity is about personal ability to act morally and ethically but I also love the ‘structural’ definition too! Listen to this…..
“Structural integrity is the term used for the performance characteristic applied to a component, a single structure, or a structure consisting of different components. Structural integrity is the ability of an item to hold together under a load, including its own weight, resisting breakage or bending. It assures that the construction will perform its designed function, during reasonable use, for as long as the designed life of the structure. Items are constructed with structural integrity to ensure that catastrophic failure does not occur, which can result in injuries, severe damage, death, and/or monetary losses.”
…as human beings we are individual structures and collective ones too. An individual without integrity will undoubtedly take themselves down but will also take down those that align themselves with them…make no mistake.
Lochy,
I loved this definition. It is a great picture for the black hole that appears when a structure (person) falls down and all the people that they take with them. My mom married several horrible men and tried to commit suicide and we 8 children all have huge holes we are trying to repair and heal. It is generational damage we are talking when these ass clowns get past our radar. I am 56 and still repairing my radar. Natalie is my radar repair girl. And I love Wednesdays because I get my fix of getting fixed. Great share, Lochy.
Oh wow… Is this for real?!?! I was dying laughing at the absurdity of this man’s life and lies. How did he figure out how to marry a second woman while already married? it makes no sense that he’s broke and not able to pay back one (of presumably four) in laws, yet still must keep wife#2 happy so she’ll give him money to pay her father? WHAT A LOSER?!?! Sherry, please report him, run, and don’t look back!
I’ve spent my life in one bad relationship after another. Same guy different package. If I haven’t read every post Natalie has written (multiple times), I’d be surprised. When you finally say enough is enough..Your Life Changes!
I have boundaries, it works. Magically things are simple, there is clarity, you can spot BS from a mile away. I never knew love is effortless. I thought it was angst and worry and pain, and thinking forever and ever.
Thank you (!!!) Natalie for changing my life with your common sense, tenacity, compassion, laugh out loud humor, and intelligence. You are a gem. Your advice is right on every time. xoxo
Natalie,
Thank you as usual. I’ve read your blog for over 4 years but never commented.
I have been in some good process since we met at the SF work shop.
It’s been painful yet eye opening.
I’ve been reading your book and learning so much.
The most eye opening thing to realize, even more painful to admit was how I’m realizing how emotionally unavailable I’ve been!!!
I’ve been single going on 4 years and had a brief relationship with a very narsassitic man and I became addicted to him…so ugly.
I went through therapy and have tried on line dating on and off for about a year and 1/2.
The men I’ve meet have been pathetic!!!
Now I know that is what I attracted.
I came home from the workshop and deleted all my booty call contacts and my 1 dating site profile. Taking the next 4 months off and going to enjoy my summer with my children and focus on self care.
Thanks again for your very inspiring and helpful workshop, it really hit home in many ways, the book too!
Blessings,
Shannon
This is brilliant news Shannon. I am so pleased for you! *This* is why I ran the workshop–for big changes to come through. Have an amazing summer with your children and onwards and upwards xx
yep, well the x wife got what she wanted in my situation.
she cheated 3 times and left in 20 years. told my x to find someone else as she didnt love him anymore. when he found me she hit the roof she stalked us, hit him, harrassed him whilst we were together then eventually turned their son against him, to the point where the son stole, did breakins and hit his father all cos his dad was trying to discipline him and she did nothing. she then stopped him from speaking to his dad whilst my x had a dying father. I couldnt help it i got so frustrated at his lack of strength and protecting me, i started arguing with him and basically nearly went loopy, I had the kids and the wife giving my x a hard time. In the end i lost he dumped me blamed our arguing. we only argued about this situation. i find out later she was dating sites throughout our whole relationship. i then get accused by his kids of vandalising his car, i got abuse from kids i didnt even know, he even abused me. I have never even spoken to him since the day we broke up. He wouldnt take my calls, I now see they all friends again, the wife, him and the kids. The wife has now gone into business with the father of her first child after my x pretended the child was his for many years. I cannot believe it. Photos of her x and her hugging and my x boyfriend has pressed like on fb. She has poisoned them. I got a threatening text from her, i didnt reply i went straight to police, when they said your husband she yelled X husband dont call him my husband. She also said she wasn’t happy about her kids harrassing me. hmmmmm i just dont get why my x just suddenly disappeared and treated me like i was the leper or evil one.
Moving forward, what was I doing in this situation
” magic up the good” is an absolutely perfect description of what I did. After all, my person is quiet, gentle, helpful, loving. but something is wrong …. is it the stuffed animal he snuggles and talks to? is it that he will not get a job, volunteer or even socialize with neighbors? is it that i let him ‘stay till spring’ in my studio apt. and now its been a year? But everyone ‘loves him’ hes so ‘nice!’. hes so nice that i dont set boundaries.
HI. Yes, I had an experience for two years before things ended. I was widowed and had not dated much. After 30 years of marriage, I was inexperienced in the variations of men in mid-life. (My late husband and I had a healthy, balanced and respectful, loving relationship). Along comes a retired military man, 6 years my junior, charming, handsome, sexy, attentive, etc. Well, as so many have experienced, notwithstanding the relentless chase and talk of marriage in the beginning, he cooled down, talked of not being “ready for a relationship”, etc. (He was recently divorced when we met – second marriage). Yet he tried to integrate himself into nearly all aspects of my life, including participating in MY family celebrations at Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter. While I enjoyed it, I did find it odd that he was not with at least someone from his various families for those holidays. Bottom line, while I had not experienced the personality before, I have come to realize that he is the poster child for passive aggressive behavior. He injected confusion into our relationship, was non-committal about even minor things, failed to follow through on several commitments that HE made to me, secretive, withholding of affection and sex and things that I wanted, critical of how I dressed, talked, ate, etc. Mr. Charming and involved turned into Mr. Critical, Unreliable and Unavailable. Red flags were everywhere….I just didn’t know what it all meant. I eventually tried to end it peacefully, by being willing to acknowledge that he might want to see others since we met when he was newly divorced, but also, that I wanted more of commitment at this time. I was giving us both a graceful way to part, but he had to have control. So, he agreed to be more committed, but was really just giving himself time to find another woman. He did and within 10 days of the death of my only sibling, Mr. PA said he wanted to “take a break”. I told him I considered it a break up and except for one instance, have never talked to him again. That was nearly two years ago, and I found out he recently married the “other woman”. She is 12 years his junior, foreign born, not well-educated (he has a Master’s)….but just his type as he likely can control her in a way he could not control me…no matter how hard he tried. Funny thing, he texted me twice with non-sensical stuff, within the few months before his marriage. In one he said…after almost two years, mind you…that he was “sorry that things didn’t work out between us”. Really…you say this to your ex as you are about to marry someone else? She eventually will find herself on the receiving end of PA behavior as well. It is just that her needs likely will make her stay. That is the formula that he sought…a needy woman who he can control and who will put up with his BS. I blocked him after the second text. So many lessons learned. I know now to be mindful of red flags. One day I will thank him for the experience.
“…he was “sorry that things didn’t work out between us”. Really…you say this to your ex as you are about to marry someone else?”
Yes Beverly I couldn’t believe it either when my ex controlling Narc said the exact same thing as he was about to marry someone else. I went NC when he became engaged to the new woman in the background just months after our break up.
He kept begging me via letters throughout my NC to come to his wedding (his ex before me was also invited and attended). Ick.
He also wrote “I will be sad on my wedding day at the what might have been between us”. SMH. Cringe.
Needless to say their marriage did not last and he is onto the next with a woman half his age.
NC is the only way to go.
Beverly & Cinnamon,
Did we all date the same man! LOL I remember when the ex EUM I dated called me after 1 year to let me know he was getting married too! Talking all this nonsense about “what if” and can I see you! I just sat there thinking he is a complete a&@hole. But at that point I didn’t care. I just felt sorry for the woman he was marrying and I wished him well.
Here’s a good one, when my ex told me he was getting married, he actually said he still thought we would end up together in the future…I couldn’t believe what I was hearing and told him marriage is a commitment til death do you part. His answer, well my first marriage didn’t go that way. I immediately felt sorry for the new woman and knew he was a total scum bag, assclown!
Kacie,
These guys are so pathetic! Too think we were sad at one time that they didn’t pick us! It goes to show you that they are who they are no matter who they decide to be with.
Funny my on/off narcisstic EU assclown can’t see how he has caused me to be emotionally unavailable for a good healthy relationship due to his selfish charming contact. In this last year, I have dated 2 guys who one ghosted me after romancing me and the other was all about himself, not wanting to get to know me. I saw the red flags, no tears. I ended them both for my own self-worth; not desperate for shallow Al. While dealing with MP has taken me too many years to release my feelings, my broken heart and loving him was never going to change him. He is lying to me and the girlfriend he has lived with her last 3 yrs/5yrs. He doesn’t love her; just lives with her for the financial perks, traveling and in Jan. became a domesticated partner for cheaper insurance; plus he lost his job again. She rescued him previously while he was without a job. She puts up with his crap 24 hrs/7 days a wk. I only see him for a few hours or when she goes out of town. Less time, now since her mo has passed away. I was a fool for letting the devil in crack in the door. This kind of relationship isn’t what I want. My life is socially full otherwise; but desire the companionship, a partner to grow with and have respect, honesty, and trust with each other.
MP doesn’t give me enough what I need and never will. I know he isn’t capable of giving true love….too much of an EUM, narcissistic assclown out for his own self-interest.
thank you Nat for these articles, blogs. I hope to attend one of your seminars soon to gain more info for NC & to move on at 60; shut the revolving door. He admitted last Sept, he is an assclown & again a month ago admitted he has held me back from finding my true soulmate God has for me. I have allowed off/on through to many years to seek making him happy & played his games. I’m getting off the merry go round and take care of me.
Hi Sherry,
I can totally relate to your situation. I’ve been in the same position and then later once the relationship came to a painful end, would look back on it a year later and go “What the heck were you thinking?!!! One thing that would help me move towards a painful decision would be to propose a solution that I thought would help me see how things really were since in the past I used to doubt my perceptions. Something that would give me the “proof” I needed to stop telling myself that I wasnt seeing things the right way, being unfair, jumping to conclusions, not being open to possibility etc etc etc. All the things I would turn to for rationalizing why I still should “hang in there.” Interestingly enough, even though I would come up with a proposal and the answer would rub the truth in my face, even though I told myself “If his answer is “X” then it’s pretty clear what’s going on and it’s time to do what I need to do for myself”, I would STILL find myself coming up with more reasons that negated the truth I had asked for. But eventually, having that undeniable truth in hand, the dissonance was so great I eventually was forced to see it, realize the irrationality, and make a painful decision. Perhaps you already have done that and have your proof in hand. I understand how hard it can be. The pain we feel in our hearts can feel unbearable. Make sure you have something healthy you can look to that helps lessen the pain and eventually the pain you feel will become less and less while being replaced by a more true joy coming into your heart from things that really matter in your life. Yep, he is doing something highly unethical (and even illegal) but for me even something so obvious was like gibberish to the language of my heart. I was wondering what I might do if I was in your situation and didn’t have an undeniable truth that my heart would listen to yet. A thought that came to me was I think I would propose the idea of moving in with him but I would not contribute financially. Not one red penny. Zilch. Maybe I would let him know the only reason I wanted to live with him was coming from my heart’s yearning to be in a real relationship – that I wanted to see how/if the relationship could really deepen and grow the way I’d want it to. If he said he wouldn’t want to do it unless I split costs with him it would tell me that he’s not interested in the value of pursuing a the kind of relationship I yearned for that’s about growth and deepening. I think that would be my proof and I’d have to ask my heart if it really wanted to waste the gift of whatever time has been given to me on this planet in a relationship that will remain stagnant and not even a real one at that. Tricky part is would be not allowing myself to tell my heart the lies it wanted to hear to spare it the pain of ending it.
Good luck to you Sherry and wishing you the beautiful future we all deserve.
i liked what Nat said about what about this feels familiar to you, what past patterns and people pleasing are you re-enacting. The thing with lies is that they are far more corrosive than anger or other problematic behaviours – a person could try and fix their anger and with each passing day that they aren’t angry, you have evidence that they’re trying. But with lying what you see is not what you get, so you can never know if the person has stopped lying. The basic foundation of trust is not there.
And one wonders what this guy will ask Sherry to do next – he’s already asked her to put up with two marriages, the roommate, the being in touch with current wife, and now the merging of finances. That’s a distinct ratcheting up of outrageous and the end result is that you stop being able to validate yourself and to judge what is the right thing to do – your feelings of love are so messed up with a person like this that there is no perspective. And that maybe is what is familiar about these relationships – I think many of us that have trouble maintaining intimate relationships have grown up not being validated for our feelings and thoughts and told to believe some outrageous things. We’ve been told ‘who will you believe me or your own eyes’ and we have trusted where we shouldn’t have.
That’s a distinct ratcheting up of outrageous and the end result is “that you stop being able to validate yourself and to judge what is the right thing to do – your feelings of love are so messed up with a person like this that there is no perspective. And that maybe is what is familiar about these relationships – I think many of us that have trouble maintaining intimate relationships have grown up not being validated for our feelings and thoughts and told to believe some outrageous things. We’ve been told ‘who will you believe me or your own eyes’ and we have trusted where we shouldn’t have.”
Yes!! Especially the ‘who will you believe me or your own eyes’. There are people who spot this vulnerability and use it to hurt you. Unfortunately my daughter is one of them.
Now I believe me.
Excellent insights as usual, Suki!
I don’t feel Sherry was trying to change this man. Sherry was willing to accept “less than”. I recognize that behavior.
Sherry, why were you so willing to accept less than? That is the internal work that is begging for your attention.
I have recently realized that I have accepted “small” relationships because I have a real fear of being left by someone I care for. As long as I can stay in my own private cocoon of good times with the person of my dreams, I never have to face being compared to others and losing the contest. Because I feel that I will always lose the contest. Somewhere I have internalized that I am not good enough when compared to the whole field of possibilities set forth on this earth. And THAT is the issue that has made me play small my entire life.
Don’t you see? That “I will always lose when compared to others” is a false belief that has run my life for years. It made me over-nice, over-anxious, over-compensate, over-react – all because I never felt I am enough the way I AM, warts/faults/strengths and all.
When you come from strength, you are never afraid to say no, or to disappoint someone else, or to admit you are wrong. When you come from strength you can walk away from bad situations because you know it is not what you want……you can deal with the fact that what you want is not here, it is ahead of you.
I agree. We must stay strong and not weaken & take them back to wreck havoc with our minds & hearts.
“…the chaos, the absurdity seemed so normal and there was a part of me wondering if I was being too harsh [in recognising the loud code red alerts] and so I second-guessed everything that my mind and body was screaming at me but that I was pushing down… “
SOOO YES! That’s EXACTLY why I stayed in my colossally f’d-up marriage for so long! I kept thinking, “Is this *really* happening?” “Am I overreacting?” And then there’s the “Well, so many other people have it so much worse, it can’t be THAT bad, can it?” I kept thinking that I did not want to make any drastic decisions until I was mentally in a clear and rational space, and unfortunately that never came to pass.
What finally did it for me was getting to the point where I simply had to face the writing on the wall that I’d been painting over for years on end the zillionth time the paint peeled off: that I SIMPLY COULD NOT AFFORD to have a person attached to me that operates like that. It was me finally understanding that however hard I was working for us to be successful, he was working equally hard to sabotage and destroy any possibility of a successful outcome to anything anywhere ever, and I was in an unwinnable war.
What gave me the resolve to actually pull the proverbial “nuclear trigger” and end it was reading your piece — the excerpt from “Mr. Unavailable…” about Florences and renovators, etc., and the realisation that I was harming my ex by allowing him to continue depending on me for everything as we edged closer and closer to ending up homeless and bankrupt.
I am working on a piece I plan on publishing fairly soon that details my process of setting my intention and following through on it and the various things I learned while doing so that ultimately allowed me to free myself.
Hi Nat, Sherry and fellow Reclaimers.
I have no support close friends or support system where I am; and can’t speak to my relatives (i.e parents or siblings) about this. So, I am sharing with you.
Without going into too long of a tale, I’ve decided to contribute. I’ve never contributed here, before; but, once I read the title, I wanted to see how close to my own current situation this is. There are a few key differences: (1) he lives with his first wife and their child (2) he employed his “side chick” & supports her as (according to his own words) he “feels responsible for her” and (3) we have a child together who has developed a strong attachment to him.
DAILY, my child cries for or asks to see/speak to the father. Since he only comes around maybe 4 times in the year now (in the beginning, we’d see him 6-7 days a week), that’s a request I can’t grant my child. Between the imaginary phone conversations, the waving to the father’s photos (a substitute for Skype and FaceTime), and the outburst of sobbing at school and home for him, my heart breaks even more.
I’ve talked over and over again to the father–sharing what goes on, and even asking for him to return to what he used to do (calling him like he used to at the same time everyday, so he can look forward to that). He does it for about a day, then returns to the neglect and indifference. Occasionally, he’ll say “I’m planning on coming there. I miss you guys.” Seldom does that happen. When it does, it only takes a call from the side chick to have him heading back home (lying that it’s the wife who called with some injury or some fever their child has).
I can go on and on with the examples of how he used to be vs how he is now. They don’t much matter, though. The bottom line is–I’ve loved this man and withheld none of myself from him. Due to my low self-esteem and thinking that “someone like him would never want someone like me”, I ignored ALL the red flags of disrespect, lies, indifference, neglect, sex with other women, and other forms of emotional abuse because…well…someone like him did choose someone like me. Except, I now know he didn’t choose me. I pursued and made my self available to him–choosing him and his needs at the cost of me.
When I began to neglect, disrespect myself and dismissing my feelings and treating my needs and desires with indifference, I KNEW something had to change. When I see my child going through the tears and longing, I NEED to change EVERYTHING! I DON’T want this for my child. I’ve thought to tell my little one the father is dead and never coming back; but me lying to and deceiving him–two of the very things that has caused me so much pain in this mess already–is wrong.
I didn’t guard my heart and RUN; but how do I guard my little one’s (esp when there is such a love and desire for the father)?
FYI: I already see very toxic behavior that I’d like to nip in the bud. My little one (3 years old) measures accomplishments by how proud the father would be of them. “Mommy, do you think daddy would be proud of me?”is the question. My replies bide time; and soothe only temporarily.
“I don’t know,” I say. “But, I think you should be very proud of yourself for (X accomplishment).” “Are you proud of me, mommy?” “I’m ALWAYS proud of you, no matter what.”
I want to do what’s best for my little one. If it were just me, the no contact (EVER) rule would be in effect. I don’t have that luxury here.
Family therapy for you and the kid. You need to go NC and learn how to talk to the child about his father. It’s not normal that the kid cries everyday for a dad he sees three times a year. A year?
And there is so much desperation in your writing – I don’t know how to respond tbh. You had a child with a married man. There are negative consequences to this – you need therapy to navigate them.
Hi, your child will be okay (believe me my son is now 10 and his dad left in the worst possible way) IF you’re okay.
You need to start focussing on you; go and see a therapist and give up on this waste of space who is not/will never be a dad to your child.
No judgement from me as I know how traumatic it is, but that question related to the dad sounds a bit grown-up for a 3 year old, maybe he/she is picking up on what you want, or your feelings?
What you don’t want is for your child to be repeatedly let down/rejected by his/her father. Your focus must now be on becoming the centre/source of stability in your child’s life. You can do this. You will be fine.
I would also hate to imagine what kinds of values, esp about women this man will pass onto his child…
You’re in charge here. Start using it by cutting this man out of your life – it’s hard enough raising one child, you don’t need two. Good luck.
Totally agree with this, if he wanted to be involved he would. It’s down to you an your child now, I really understand what its like, I split from my ex husband when my daughter was 18 months. Fully expecting that he would remain part of her life. We were married 5 years before we had her. He cut ties and moved away very quickly. He sees her once a year and she’s 16 this year. My point is that you can do it on your own. Never bad mouth him to your child. Kids make their own minds up (with time and love) if you can show that you are strong and capable this will pass… My bond with daughter is amazing. She’s happy, well balanced and loved, You will have this with your baby, for sure!!
Hi ladies! I posted here last year under the name “Leanne”. anyways, it’s been awhile but I’m back to check out some of Natalie’s writing.
I’ve been pretty good for the last year, and I apologize about getting angry a bit on here last year. I wasn’t in a good place. I’ve had virtually no contact all year, but for the odd run in with exMM in the elevator. I thought I was healed and pretty much over it, but the last couple times I’ve run into him have been hard. I can tell on some level he still likes me or just wants me to like him again. But I still really hate Him for the things he said and did last year. So I’ve been pretty cold to him. Not to be a jerk but because I acgually just can’t bear to smile and chat with him. He’s so smug and condescending, like his life is so great that he’s a big winner. Hes a jerk! Anyways, his response has been to be cold back and even though it makes sense because I’ve been cold a lot, it really hurts. I guess it’s better than before when he was acting like he felt sorry for me. But whatever, I digress.
I guess I’m posting because I need a little support. I’ve been trying hard to get over it, stay no contact, try not to care about him and to rebuild my life. But I can’t stop feelin sad and angry too. I feel like it’s becoming obsessive how much I think about him, even though it’s not good thoughts. Like its thoughts of anger and sadness. What is going on with me and how do I get out of this headspace?? It would probably help if I didn’t run into him at work regularly and constantly trying to avoid him. I don’t know what to do. Today I ran into him in the elevator. He was with a colleague who asked what are you doing for lunch? And exMM said, “meeting the wife for lunch.” Wtf? Is this 1950? And why say that in front of me? Haven’t you done enough?
Hi Ms. Leanne,
I think it is natural to have some contradicting feeling and emotions after the fact. I know that I can speak for the other ladies as well as myself (who were here when you were in the throes of this last year) when I say that I am happy and proud that you took at least the first step which is stepping back and disengaging. Give yourself that. Thank goodness you are not where you were last year!
That’s the thing with cheating. It all boils down to selfishness and greed in my opinion as often times instead of sitting down with their wives/girlfriends and ‘doing the work’ or GASP, actually sitting down TAKING RESPONSIBILITY for the part that they are playing in the unhappy state of their relationship, they take the selfish route and just find a women who they can throw a little attention and get the ego stroke/recovery, pump up, and feel good. Not because they actually want a relationship with the other woman, but because they want to FEEL GOOD and be PUMPED UP as Nat says.
Then there are the men that don’t have any issues in their relationships/marriages, they just want the thrill and sportsmanship of the chase. And they embark on extramarital affairs like men go sport fishing. The aim of sport fishing is to see what their skills can catch. They have no intentions on actually taking it home. Its mental masturbation for them. These kinds of attached/unavailable men just want stroke their own egos by seeing if they still ‘got it’. It all amounts to selfishness and greed either way because guys who do this are just going around usurping ‘feel good’, ‘ego strokes’ to pump up themselves.
With regards to your situation Leanne hun, that man doesn’t owe you anything, including the sense that you were the exception to the rule. Which it seems like you are still seeking a sense of that from him. I think that sooner you realize that you are not going to get that from him, the better. He never ever had it to give to you in the beginning. He was sensation seeking. What does all the high school frilly giggly stuff you felt at work matter if he was and still is coming from a home that she shares with HIS WIFE before he sees you at work and going back to the home that he shares with his wife after he sees you every day.
See, this is not about this guy, but I think this is about you and figuring out what is going on that made you vulnerable to this in the first place. There are married men everywhere, opportunistic people are everywhere, unavailable people are everywhere, so the married man is not your issue, your vulnerability is. The fact that you are still trying to squeeze blood from a turnip with this man is the issue.
Have you tried therapy Leanne?
Thanks @lrsjmissy
Yeah, I’ve been in therapy all year and it’s been helpful. I think the whole situation boils down to having low self esteem and getting excited about a seemingly awesome man who said he wanted to be with me. And my own expectations that I deserve this “love” and I always thought that one day I would meet a guy like this. But obviously that was delusional and not well thought out since this guy had just gotten married when we met.
I have been trying to take responsibility for my role in the affair but I keep getting angry because of how he’s treated me since it ended. he acts like I’m a heartbroken loser and like he’s some amazing guy that unfortunately, I just don’t get to be with. I guess there is no good ending to an affair.
I never actually wanted to hurt his wife or breakup a family (after he told me they were pregnant). I was the one who ended it. I am just having such a hard time letting go of the anger and sadness. Am thinking of going back for more therapy, so hopefully it will helps.
Thanks so much for your comments and support! It means a lot to have someone/people to talk to.
Leanne, It is very human to get excited and you do deserve a great love… an actual great love. You are not the devil for getting involved with this guy. It was a mistake but you are so not wrong for wanting love and to love! The attention can be such a drug and hypnotising, especially when there seems to be nothing on the horizon as far as viable dating candidates are concerned. And it sucks to be past high school or college age and still out here trying to meet someone!
I sooo empathize with you having to see him at work..ugh!
I think you were in love with the ideal or what you wanted it to be rather than what it actually was with this guy cuz no matter how Mcdreamy and perfect you two seemed together at work (and hell, how McDeamy can it be at work?) he went and continues to go back home to his wife…BY CHOICE.
Its also quite natural to feel angry about him acting like’ I’m a heartbroken loser and like he’s some amazing guy that unfortunately, I just don’t get to be with.’ Now here’s is where it may sting…. is he lying? Ask yourself is he lying? Are you? Now are you a looser, hell no, but you were heart broken about not getting a chance to be with him. As a man be probably would assume that you wanted me that bad to try and have a relationship with me when you know I’m essentially a newlywed. Just think about it. Ask yourself, is that what you think he is thinking about you are is that what you are thinking of yourself? Because unless he actually told you he thinks that, then you don’t know that for sure. I think that is something that you are telling yourself and some ego bruise in there too. Us women can get our ego’s bruised too. Is the anger about you feeling some righteous indignation or about you beating you up for a heartbroken loser and feeling like he’s some amazing guy that unfortunately, I just don’t get to be with.’
You may be at the anger stage of grief which is progress! Know that this too shall pass. You will look back on this and and wonder what were you thinking. It will be look looking back at another person.
Thanks @lrsymissy,
I sure do hope it’s looking back one day soon. I felt like I was getting well, but just a couple bad run ins with him lately which set things back a bit. I don’t know. It’s just the way he talks to me when I do see him and the couple times we’ve had to correspond by email that make me feel like he’s smug and condescending. But you’re right. Some of it is actually true. Which is painful. I did really care about him and he did break my heart. I did engage in something shitty, even if he led the ship. and it is painful to the ego to have to see him moving on and talking about it at work. I’ve tried to just focus on my own life, but I relapse sometimes.
I was thinking of leaving my job last year, but my company offered me a really good offer to stay. So I wish that one of us would leave soon. Since I had this relapse this weekend, I am sure that will have to happen. but I wish it would be him. My job is a harder one to find elsewhere. But I can’t tell him to leave, he’ll have to be inspired to do so I guess.
Anyways, back to work tomorrow and going to keep working on moving forward. Again and again. Hoping to avoid him again as much as possible.
To all the people out there struggling, send you love and support.
Hi Leanne,
I am so happy to hear you are trying to move on. It can be tough. I just can’t imagine the heavy feelings you must carry having to see this immature man at work.
Please consider if possible finding a new place to work. Getting over a relationship is tough. I believe it would be worse having to hear your ex talk about his wife. For the sake of your sanity get away from him. I have never seen my ex and never want to see him again. One day when I am completely healed it may be fine. By seeing him you can’t heal. It is too much work to carry those heavy feelings of disgust. Bad energy and it only hurts you more. Release yourself from this torture. ( I am sitting here watching It’s Complicated and the main character is looking at her ex husband hugged up with someone else cringe).
If I had to hear my ex talk about meeting someone for lunch it would just be too tough. Salt in the wounds. Set a deadline for finding new work. Peace of mind is priceless. I know how tough it can be to get over someone when you don’t see them. But you my dear are still in the eye of the storm. Continue to be good to yourself.
Thank you for the support you gave me.
MJ
Thanks MJ. I appreciate your words. I am going to continue working on getting well and most definitely never get involved with a man in a relationship again. Thanks for your support!
@MJ, I am also glad to hear that you seem to be doing well. How long have you been NC? I can’t remember.. Is your ex married? Hope life is treating you well!
Hi Leanne,
I was engaged to be married and my ex was cheating. I have never dated a married man. BR has reinforced that no matter how lonely I get that is a path not to take.
BR has been a place of refuge for me. Say Something, Elgie R, Wiser, Sofia and many others have been my strength. Big hug for Say Something hope you get some sleep this week.
MJ
Hi Leanne, I also remember your story from last year. I think you’ve done really well since you’re NC. Remind me – wasn’t he having a baby? He might be looking for some kibbles from you so watch out.
I agree with other posters he doesn’t owe you anything. He didn’t ‘do’ anything to you either – what he did he did to his wife. Perhaps you are still not ready to just say ‘married men are a bad idea, married men at work was a really big mistake one I will not be making again’. Why is it hard to do that? You’re responsible for yourself.
What I hear from you is your inability to fully take responsibility and to fully forgive yourself. The two are connected. It’s like you don’t know how to acknowledge a mistake and let go. You’re still focused on him and not on yourself. When you see yourself as an imperfect person that makes mistakes but still deserves to be loved and cared for – including by yourself – then he won’t have this hold on you. His treatment is triggering your feelings of unlovability – after all he ‘chose’ his wife didn’t he. Trust me he didn’t choose his wife over you, there was no competition the whole thing was a mirage.
I think it’s brave of you to ask this comments board – I think obsessive thoughts are no big deal. We all have them. Find a hobby. Take more action. Build a deck. Regrout the bathroom. As long as you don’t act on those thoughts, they’re just your sub conscious being bored. You’re doing fine.
Thanks @suki. I appreciate your comments. Yeah, I Probably havent taken as much responsibility as is mine. I knew he was married when we met, but I didn’t care. I think because they were only married one year, they didn’t have kids and everyone (including him) always says that she’s really rich and really stuck up. For some reason, this made me not care about her feeling. But I never wanted to actually hurt anyone, and I don’t now or in the future. So no more married men, ever, regardless of feelings.
I think you are also right that I need to get busier. I am pretty busy but I still manage to find time to obsess about this stuff. I need to find better and more distracting hobbies and yeah, going back to therapy this week. Wish me luck.
Thanks, Leanne
Good luck Leanne! I’m just going back into therapy myself. Its never not a good idea. You’re doing fine. Maybe the new stronger you isn’t happy with the old you, its stretching into a new skin. The present is usually quite good, but we keep re-interpreting the past. I need a ton of work on my present right now.
This post really hits home. My heart goes out to all of you going through this sort of experience
Having no real support network to talk to about my experience, I wanted share with people on here.
I recently dated a, sadly, narcissistically inclined man who did everything you described in your blogs to a T- future faked, love bombed and threw anything and everything at me (suggesting moving in after 3 months, many many future-orientated activities) in what turned out to be him trying to alleviate his own loneliness, his wife had left him 6 months earlier. Despite this, we seemingly got along very well, I believe I started to fall in love with him, due to his charisma, the ‘attention’ and faux affection and promises, and some good times/experiences and behaviour. I now know that I unwittingly dismissed red flags (dismissive behaviour, betrayal,lying, attempt to cheat, objectifying me, subtly putting me down, promising help and never giving it, always manipulating situations to suit him, among others) thinking it was purely my own pickyness and that alone, which contributed to the issues we had. He ended things during a time of great trauma for me (family illness, me being injured at work) right before Christmas, but begged me to stay friends. I found out after ‘staying friends’ for a few months that he was indeed betraying and cheating on me whilst we were together, and whilst friends was boasting to the women he betrayed me with about how he was proud of himself for ‘leading me on’.
As much as it has hurt to realise and relive my mistakes and some gullible-ness, and caused me discover trust and esteem issues and a barrage of other matters, I am grateful that I made the decision to walk away from the ‘friendship’ and have never contacted him again. Recently, he approached me at a sporting club (we are both part of) to say hello (mind you, the brief interaction was only him talking about himself) and I could not bring myself to respond with anything other than a hi. I am proud that I held my ground and did not let him start another false social interaction with me. Despite this i experienced trauma at the resurfacing of someone I hoped I wouldn’t have deal with again.
Saddest of all is that I see him doing the same thing to other women, and I can only hope they realise. To be blunt, I know I dodged a bullet.
Now 2 months after the last bombshell, things are better, but I still have intense moments of grief and anxiety. I am terrified of the loneliness and issues this brief relationship brought to a head, but I have drawn much strength and direction from you post, and avoided starting another relationship with someone who was definitely unavailable, despite a clear connection. By no means will I taint all men with the same brush, because i know it not to be the case!
Nothing is as simple as a few paragraphs, naturally, nonetheless, Natalie, I want to thank you for your blog. Your common sense and multi faceted approach to all the aspects of a relationships/ break ups and the sorts of issues they may bring up and how my life and approach has to change is refreshing and has helped to start the healing.
Thankyou to everyone else who has shared on here, sometimes seeing you aren’t the only one who has been through this, or fooled by people like this is incredibly reassuring.
My best wishes to everyone recovering 🙂
@nicola,
Sorry to hear about your experience with this ridiculous man. He sounds like an ex boyfriend of mine from years ago. Always manipulating things and never taking the blame. He complained a lot about other people and how they treated him badly. This should be been a red flag because that’s exactly how he became about me. I was never good enough except dying those fun first few months where he seemed to adore me and have me on a pedastle.
I really hope you’ve moved away from this far enough to get some perspective. It’s hard to stop carin about someone, even when you know they are horrible and not good for you. I still feel pangs of love for my ex years later. But you are only 6 months out, so hope you are doing well.
Good luck to you.
“My boyfriend is still married to two women-what should I do?” Probably not date him.
lol.
“My boyfriend is still married to two women”
Jesus, who has this kind of time in their schedule? I can barely buy toilet paper before it runs out.
That’s one up on me Revolution. Probably more often than not I’m getting the loo paper *after* it’s run out (this is where good neighbours become priceless)!
Is that even legal to be married to 2 people at the same time? And the person who chooses to be with a married person is just as bad as the married person. They’re both needy on the same level. A healthy strong person would just walk away the second they found out the guy is married. How nice to be a man these days, with NOTHING to offer and yet they still find women to date… Go figure.