Stephanie asks: One year after my ex broke up with me, I have been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. We had issues; I was clingy/jealous, he was avoidant/promised more than he could keep. I offered to seek treatment, spend time apart and try again, but he said he needed a “clean break” and since then he has ignored me whenever possible. I haven’t been involved with anyone since as I am terrified of being left by and/or hurting another person. I am also not over his lack of empathy after the breakup (blanking me in the streets). Weeks after, he started dating someone new and they’re still together.
I don’t want to resume the relationship but wonder if I should inform him about my diagnosis as it contributed to things. I wonder if him ignoring me and jumping into a new relationship is his way of protecting himself/forgetting past hurt. He knows I’m truly sorry and in treatment. Do you think it would be useful for him to understand that I have a mental disorder? I don’t want him to feel absolved from everything because “I’m crazy” either. We’ve had no contact in 6 months.
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I imagine that this is a very vulnerable time for you as you navigate your diagnosis. Now that you have an explanation for some of your thinking, emotions and behaviour, there is undoubtedly a period that follows where you press rewind on your mental tape, watch back previous events, analyse your own actions and his, and wonder how different things would be if you could turn back time and you were both aware of your BPD. There can also be a temptation to assume that because your actions were in part influenced by the BPD that ipso facto his actions were too, and that’s not to discount that there will have been an element of that but if everything is put on your diagnosis, you won’t see the woods for the trees.
The degree to which you needed to gain some independence in your life (emotionally, mentally, physically and spiritually) so that you can be interdependent in your relationships reflects the degree to which he needed to allow himself to be more depended on (not codependent) so that he could be interdependent in his own relationships. As a result of your involvement with him, the pain, fear and guilt that came to the fore and the way in which you reacted prompted you to seek help and get a diagnosis—you needed this breaking point.
It is not ‘easy’ to be in an unavailable relationship whether it’s a matter of two emotionally unavailable people doing the awkward tango of their issues or whether it’s full-blown toxic chaos. This relationship must have been incredibly stressful for the both of you. I know that he did not handle things well and that his lack of empathy has hurt you deeply, but your relationship will have been triggering not just for you but also for him. This is not to excuse his behaviour but more to recognise that he’s on his own journey and that he may deal with his feelings and past in a very different way to you. His breaking point may look very different to yours. He may have decided to press the reset button and move on as quickly as possible and that has meant that he has gone to lengths to ignore you.
You say that you wonder if him ignoring you and starting a new relationship very quickly is his way of “protecting himself/forgetting past hurt”? I say, how long is a piece of string? It might be anger; it might be not wanting a scene whether that’s fear of his own behaviour/feelings/words or yours; it might be shutting out due to guilt and shame; it could be trauma; it could be that he has a parent/caregiver that elements of this involvement reminded him of. You have to go back to the top line data: you described him as being “avoidant” in the relationship and that means he’s bound to be avoidant out of it.
Many people bounce from relationship to relationship to avoid confronting the feelings that surface at the end of a relationship around loss and vulnerability but his past hurt doesn’t entirely relate to you. Sure, there will be some baggage allocation for what went on between you and him but believe me, he has plenty of other stuff in there too.
This relationship was triggering for the both of you. Ultimately you were both relating in unhealthy ways and that will have dragged each of you down. As you already recognise, it’s the right thing that you’re no longer together.
It’s hard enough when you have a fear of abandonment but this will be incredibly heightened by the BPD but no doubt there were factors that pushed you over the edge. You are not “crazy”. Did you say and do things that you regret? Sure but who hasn’t? Acknowledge the different experiences along your journey that have led you to this juncture. Have some compassion not just for your present self but also for those younger versions of you that have been dismissed as “crazy” or “needy”.
You have taken responsibility for you and that is a massive step. You are taking care of you and the bulk of your energies need to be devoted to that.
If you let him know about your disorder, you need to be absolutely clear on your motivations. If there is no agenda and you’re giving him that information with no expectation of what you will get back and more a ‘gift’ for what you think is his peace of mind, knock yourself out. If however, what you really want is to divulge your diagnosis in the hopes that he’ll display more empathy and even feel guilty about his behaviour so that you can feel less abandoned and hurt, halt. You have no control over how absolved he feels of anything. He might already feel that way. If you’re going to explain and apologise, do so because you have it to give. In this way, no matter how he responds, you will feel more at peace because you know that you did what you did from an authentic place where you considered his feelings and yours too. You will then be able to get the support you need to deal with situations like him ignoring you.
What you’re looking for from him is something that you need to give you: empathy, understanding, patience, tolerance, forgiveness. Focus your efforts on getting as much support as possible which will nourish you. Get educated about your disorder. If there is anything in your past that contributes to your fear of abandonment, working on this in therapy and treatment will help you to build your self-esteem and calm down some of the triggers so that you can lead your life. One day you will be ready to try again with a relationship but for now, you need to build a relationship with you and be choosy about who you allow into your Circle of Trust.
Even without a disorder, millions of people worry about being hurt or hurting others. I can’t promise that you won’t be hurt or even that you won’t hurt others at times–we all do–but with the right support, you will be able to forge relationships.
Have you been through something similar to Stephanie or been the partner? What [compassionate] advice can you offer up?
Each Wednesday, I help a reader to solve a dilemma. To submit a question, please email advicewednesdayAT baggagereclaim.com. If you would prefer your question to be featured on the podcast, drop a line to podcast AT baggagereclaim.com. Keep questions below 200 words. For in-depth support, book a clarity session or coaching.
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Nooooo… Don’t tell.
If it comes up you could say you were having mental health problems but why disclose something that could, for instance, keep you out of a job you want, or other situation?
Whether or not she tells the ex, I think it’s important not to perpetuate the stigmas surrounding mental illness. A lot of people with mental health conditions find it beneficial to talk to those close to them about their condition. While a diagnosis could be a factor in regards to some jobs, etc., I don’t think that means that she should tell no one about her condition if it’s helpful to her to talk. There are ways of managing information in regards to employment, etc. that are a way to complex to go into here. A professional could probably help her in deciding when and when not to share to share information regarding her condition so that the disclosure is helpful and not harmful to her.
I agree. I think discussing it with your therapist/mhp would be best. He/she could walk you through the pros/cons for sharing and anticipate people’s potential responses so you are prepared for them.
Whatever you choose, Stephanie, good for you for getting the help you need and taking good care of you!
Sophie E – it’s also discrimination to refuse to employ someone on the basis of their health or mental health (unless the job is physically/mentally taxing etc), so she shouldn’t fear informing people about her diagnosis. As someone who used to suffer with severe depression and anxiety, I’m very lucky that I have a really understanding boss who is my ‘go to’ person when I have a bad day or feel anxious. My employers are also great at accommodating all of my appointments for lupus as well. I’m really blessed to work for such a great firm.
We need to remove the stigma that mental health shouldn’t be discussed openly. It’s such an antiquated view that causes more harm than good. I would encourage Stephanie to talk to a counselor and develop a strong support network of close friends and family (maybe join a support group for people with BPD?).
I’m not sure how helpful disclosing this info to your ex will be… He has made the decision to blank you, and although this hurts, he’s actually doing you a favour by not lingering around, or trying to get you into bed with him like some of my assclown exes have done. Take a deep breath and keep pushing forwards Stephanie. It does get better with time. 🙂
Not to sound cold, but I would not tell the ex anything–especially not about a cluster B mental disorder. If you do, it gives him carte blanche to blame it all on you, plus he could gossip about it and do you some social harm.
Having not long ago escaped from a covert malignant narcissist, I doubt I’d have the fortitude to try another cluster B patient just yet.
Being diagnosed opened a wonderful door for you. Now with your intelligence and a desire to get a handle on it, I suggest you put boys on the shelf for now, and make your goal to understand BPD, then find ways to cope with it before you set out for new romance.
You are worth the trouble. Best of luck in this difficult but treatable disorder. There is a cure.
I agree with you. He probably does not care that much and telling him that it probably make him feel extra relieved he got out of there.
I was in a similar situation. I told him, but later realized I shouldn’t have bothered. What I didn’t realize at the time was that I was still seeking validation from him. I was still trying to control the way he viewed me, less “crazy” and over-sensitive, and more a product of reacting to his behaviors with triggers from BPD. I also wanted him to take my lead and reflect on how his own abandonment and childhood issues contributed to his part in the toxic dynamic between us. Uh… nope. He said “it sounds like you’re in a good place”, and nothing more. Why was I surprised. I’m in a place where after 2 yrs of no contact I could be friends with him; I’ll always care about him. But that’s not something I’d want to happen unless he initiated telling me he’s realized his part in the problems we had, and how things would be different this time around. Knowing him, that ain’t gonna happen. Understand, learn, and heal for YOU.
”If you let him know about your disorder, you need to be absolutely clear on your motivations. If there is no agenda and you’re giving him that information with no expectation of what you will get back and more a ‘gift’ for what you think is his peace of mind, knock yourself out. If however, what you really want is to divulge your diagnosis in the hopes that he’ll display more empathy and even feel guilty about his behavior so that you can feel less abandoned and hurt, halt.
What you’re looking for from him is something that you need to give you: empathy, understanding, patience, tolerance, forgiveness.
Stephanie, weigh those passages by Natalie in your decision on whether or not to tell him.
I’ve dealt with a BPD father my whole life, and I get why someone would be totally avoidant of re-involving themselves with a BPD partner. Not absolving the former boyfriend, because it is possible that Stephanie’s case is one of “two emotionally unavailable people doing the awkward tango of their issues”. However, if the boyfriend was emotionally self-caring, he could have made a decision to keep the BPD at arms length, not get too close, because BPDs are often very emotionally draining.
My experience has been that my father is either left by a woman and never does she want to deal with him again OR he is with his on-and-off relationship where there is “full-blown toxic chaos”.
I am in awe that Stephanie actually sought treatment. I did not think BPDs ever self-examined their motivations. It bodes well that she knew there were some emotional problems that need addressing. My father would deny, deny, deny, then rage at you for even suggesting he do some introspective work.
I was thinking the same thing. It is very very unusual for someone with BPD to get help and even admit the diagnosis. I believe it is said that they are treatment resistant. My ex-wife has BPD and was always in full-blown denial and it was maddening. If you know your diagnosis and can commit to working on it, you are light years ahead of most people. Good luck
Wow a few ignorant statements here in comments ,saying wow I don’t know bpd people went for therapy and just dismissing it as similar to your ex narcissistic personality disorder .I was diagnosed bpd 4 years ago after years of trying to find out what is wrong with me ,the 16 bpd people in my therapist group have been the same desperately in emotional pain trying to find answers ,they are the most sensitive vulnerable empathetic compassionate group of people I’ve ever met and our biggest problem is not focusing on our own problems because we can’t bear others in pain because,we feel it too much we are dragged down with our exquisit sensitivity ,the problem with bpd is too much compassion and sensitivity and our inability to filter that out hence us all have been in abusive relationships have no self worth ,I’m tired of the ignorant attitudes expressed here and labelled as narcissistic aND just cluster b I know sociopathic narcissistic people who aren’t bpd everyone is on the spectrum of personality disorders .We are an incredibly vulnerable group of people all of us experienced such trauma growing up 4 victims of sexual abuse from toddler to teenager one girl still is,struggling with having to tell her dad that she can’t see him anymore even though he raped her from the age of 4 till 15 because she can’t bear to hurt him 4 from foster care the old style foster care where you live in children homes and are regularly beaten ,the rest had very abusive and bullying mothers with distant father’s and devoid of any security or acceptance or love and have been left to fend for ourselves and to end up in abusive situations ,we all have been diagnosed bpd but we are all on a spectrum and I suggest you educate yourself on the illness is a terrifying way to live with sometimes death is the only escape it has the highest suicide rate of any mental illness ,one girl pulls her own toenails out to deal with the deep enotional pain she is in ,another has sex with random men and now has hiv 10 out of 16 cut themselves the rest struggle with food and cuttING there is bulimia, anorexia, binge eating ,but you know what these people are the most unjudgemental tolerant open minded accepting group of people it’s staggering how everyone naturally validates and empathise with each other and to help each other through our journey ,that level of perception and compassion is innate in a lot of deeply traumatised people ,id also like to point out bpd is also known as complex ptsd which is more traumatic and multi layered than ptsd which is usually isolated incidents ,complex ptsd is when you grow up in an abusive environment that makes you form faulty brain functioning you’re constantly in survival mode hence our comfort in relations hips that are abusive to us ,because it literally feels like home .
Would you condemn someone who had ptsd and been through a horrific incident so why would you condemn a person who has to live years and years as a young child in a,damaging
Toxic invalidating sp much so that they can’t seem to function in a wold where there is no threat ,or chaos.
Educate yourself you are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to your uninformed opinion ,and thank you natalie for dealing with it sensitively ,we all use your site in group it helps us with our boundaries and relationships and in the depths of despair after the end of another attempt at a relationship with an abusive unavailable man ,I just go through all your articles and it helps me see what I need to do ,you really are a life saver sone times you have helped me through many a suicidal dark episode xx
Well said Gemma! Couldn’t agree with you more about some of the comments here. It’s startling to find that some people still have these outdated attitudes towards mental illness in 2016!
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge with us.
Gemma, thank you for sharing your thoughts, I found them helpful. When you stated that “Toxic invalidating so much so that they can’t seem to function in a world where there is no threat or chaos” , it gave me some insight into what is happening in my father’s head. He does seem to create chaos. It seemed to me that he liked making life hard for himself, always choosing the hardest road to hoe…and I’d wonder why he seemed to resist making life easier. Now I see…chaos is familiar to him. Chaos feels like home to him. I can’t change that.
Yl’know? I get super queasy over this stuff. First “personality disorders”? What the hell does that mean???! There’s all kind of labels out there to make people who are just fall outside the norm (whatever that is) feel defective. I’ve been diagnosed with every personality disorder under the sun ( what does that tell you? Like, um, so which one am I ? Narcissist, BDP, Histrionic, Manic Depressive… C’mon guys figure that stuff out. Because while your not really sure, and its all subjective, Blah Blah, Blah, yer slapping a big ol’label on me that make me think I should 1) let people know in the past where things things went south ( and maybe for good reason ) that I had “issues” or be any one that I meet iin the future that I am defective. My attitude has become “yeah, I’ve got a personality. Who the hell are you to say it’s a disorder?!
My rant does NOT mean we should to excuse ourselves from our behavaior. b
But I am getting so very tired of the personality disorder stuff. I bet bet you my histrionic personalty. Okay I cry at sunsets. love to sing, and when someone hurts my feelings I feel deeply wounded. So what?! Really? You’re going to slap a goddam label on me for that?! I just have to learn to handle my trigger hair finely tuned emotions which, ahem. are highly sensitive and I love that about myself. The “Histrionic” label does not make one feel very good about who they are. Hahaha in fact if I go out on a date with a guy that is clearly not aligned with my principles and with whats important to me but ihounding me to hop in the sack, all I have to do is say, “Oh God, I cant tell you how much it means to me that you want me because when most guys find out I’m a histrionic? They run for the hills.” When they suddenly remember they have an early meeting and have to go, dont feel the slightest bit rejected. One has to laugh at life and use every opportunity to crack oneself up over the silliness of it all, I bet you my histrionic diagnosis to your BDP diagnosis ( and raise you a narcissistic disorder) that 20 years from now all this personality disorder stuff will be put in the same category as leeches and bleeding. Anyone you feel a need to explain yourself to? Why? They are in no position to judge, and, while easier said than done, is of no consequence to us whether they understand. Everyone is an armchair psychologist. I get a bee in my bonnet when it comes to the whole personality order thing.. ( Hahaha obviously!) Good luck to you. and be careful to not let yourself get dragged down into too much seriousness or the personality disorder thing. You are YOU. And whatever that is, just focus on what you can learn while you are on this little ball of dirt. Its a wonderful ride and we only get to go on it once. 🙂
PS responding on fly, cutting and pasting. etc. If any of it sounds incoherent attribute it to one of my personality disorders 😉
Yesss!! I had to google ‘Histrionic’ PD to know what that was, but yes… you described how I’m feeling right now with doctors trying to put some medical label on me being me.
I think sharing such sensitive information with someone who ignores you in the street is just a recipie for pain . It is the sort of information that if it were me I would only share with people close to me now , and that had shown themselves to be trustworthy . You don’t owe this man anything . He is from the past , and he is certainly not turning himself inside out explaining to you why his own behaviour fell short . I would learn from this what I could , and then use that information moving forward
1) he’s asked for a “clean break”
2) he’s in a new relationship
3) he’s demonstrated a lack of empathy after the break up
4) he’s “blanked” you on the streets
5) there’s been no contact for 6 months
There are 5 excellent reasons not to tell him about your personality disorder, and 5 strong indications that he has truely moved on… The tiny possibility that it might benefit him is vastly outweighed by the inevitable pain for you if you tell him.
THIS^
Only bring it up if he gets back in touch with you of his own volition.
IMO, there’s nothing to be gained (except getting hurt by a guy who has moved on) by getting back in touch with him yourself, just to tell him about your diagnosis.
Yes, Natalie wrote something once about how important it is to hear what it is a person is saying to you .
He couldn’t be making it more clear .
I think you are having a lot of trouble seeing where you/he begin and end in this situation . There seems to be a real blurring of boundaries . He has made it clear he does not want to know you and it is necessary to accept that and respect his choice .
The temptation to think that you will reach some sort of understanding or maintain some sort of friendly connection if you share your diagnosis is misguided, and probably a reaction to the fact of how painful it is to see someone you cared about deeply acting as if you don’t exist , and the difficulty with accepting that .
Instead of focussing on this relationship , which isn’t a relationship anymore, you need to focus on yourself . How to heal , how to nurture and how to protect yourself .
Hello,
I am the person who sent in this question and thank you very much Nat for putting my message up here! I am aware that personality disorders and BPD in general are often perceived as a can of worms better left unopened.
Maybe to explain a bit further for those who are interested:
During the relationship it was already clear that I had at least some type of depression (that’s what we thought), I was aware that I had issues around jealousy, and was eager to seek help. Now the problem with that was: it’s not that easy to get into therapy. The first doctor I went to see (while crying in front of her), told me that I’m probably just going through a stressful phase and that it’ll be alright. The second doctor took a blood sample which came back negative, and I was told that “no further treatment is necessary”. Through a friend (no doctor told me about this), I learned about a scheme to make help for mental health issues more accessible. I had a phone assessment after two weeks, then three months on a waiting list, then 6 sessions/weeks with a CBT practitioner (NOT a doctor or therapist…), had my diagnosis, and am now on another waiting list. In other words, it took about a year to get my diagnosis, and now I’m on yet another indefinite waiting list to actually receive treatment. Apparently BPD isn’t exactly “popular” with therapists either, and unfortunately, I can’t afford private therapy.
I also have to say that, apart from when I was in relationship turmoil and therefore entirely off the rails, my professional or other interpersonal relationships have never suffered from this behaviour. It is really just the romantic relationships that (to my knowledge…) are affected by it. My mother definitely has BPD streaks as well (she had a very traumatic childhood), although I and other people suspect that she’s also on the Narc spectrum as she is very emotionally manipulative and lies in situations, where the lie doesn’t even bring her any personal advantage. She is also unfortunately one of those entirely treatment/criticism resistant people. Even when you suggest help in the friendliest manner, she dismisses it and calls the person “insane”.
Back to the former relationship:
It became clear that I wasn’t emotionally stable, jealous, insecure, often felt down, and had 2 suicidal episodes. My ex was adamant to help and said he’d never leave me “just like that”. Well. He remained in fairly regular contact (IM) with several past flings, including his then most recent ex which I told him made me feel uncomfortable. He told me not to worry and that he’s doing it out of respect for what they once had. Fast forward a few months, we had a fight about basically nothing and concluded we’d discuss the issue further the next day, which was when he broke up with me. At the same time he assured me that he was aware that my depression (which we then thought was all that it was) was weighing heavy on me and should I ever need any help, he’d always be there. I even told him that I knew people say that to soften the blow and he really didn’t have to if he didn’t mean it, but he insisted that he meant it cause I would always be a very important person in his life. Ah well… he’s an actor btw. 😛 😉 After that day, it was as if someone had flicked a switch and I simply didn’t exist anymore.
Maybe that explains a bit more about my situation and my confusion with it. Thanks again so much Nat for choosing this question, and thanks everyone else for your input.
Best,
Steph
Steph,
I think it’s understandable that you want to clarify this to him. But it will likely do you more harm than good.
Given that your relationship has been over for a year, and he is seeing someone else, it seems best not to contact him for this or any other reason.
Steph, much empathy for you as I have somewhat been through a similar situation. Thank you for writing and asking a great question.Left a comment below.
Have you ever looked into attachment theory? You mention your mother’s own condition; your ex being avoidant, and yoir relationship anxiety. Perhaps it was just behavior you learned?
Have you ever considered that you might possibly be looking too hard for a psychiatric label in effort to feel better about your previous relationship, and an excus e not to absorb all of the blame and not feel entierly responsible?
Peace and blessings on your journey.
eph – despite your emotional distress there were many problems in this relationship. I think you are absorbing a lot of the blame and this may be one of the reasons you want his validation or empathy. I lived in the fantasy that I could have a meaningful conversation with my ex but this was still based on a view that he could be empathic duh. I learned that my making myself vulnerable to him just led to him being cruel and then I felt humiliated because I could see that my neediness lacked self respect. It is very very painful to realize that he is over you and is not preoccupied with how things were. My ex moved on very quickly after a very long marriage. I have rigid no contact although we need to communicate from time to time and it always makes me feel awful as he usually has to insert some passive aggressive statement in an email.
Oh and he told me he would be the best friend to me ever after the sep and would always want me to be happy and would never have another relatiponship and would work on himself blah blah.
Good luck and be kind to yourself. I know how hard it is xx
I was diagnosed bipolar at 17 years old, after a freak-out moment, hospitalization and 10 minute meeting with a psychiatrist. I’m now 31. I am not the little girl I used to be. I have learned self-care and yoga/meditation, have educated myself in attachment theory and have taken to singledom in efforts to sort out my baggage and negative behavioral patterns/reactions.
Looking back, I can see my role in my family system. My father was not in my life and my mother was very micro-managing and invalidating. I feel that I was treated as poor little crazy “Em,” who created problems. My mother recently admitted to me that I was “spanked” the most out of the 5 kids. I remember growing up thinking I wasn’t really that bad of a kid and wondered what it was that made me wrong or why everything I tried to do right was never enough. Yes, I tested boundaries, could be resistant and had a fierce temper, like many children, but I was a kid. I remember my relationship with my mother was between two extremes of feeling either love or hate. It was an emotional roller coaster growing up and I feel for her, as she was a single mom and had a history of abuse from her own parents.
Fast forward to my 20’s, right after I move out, and I meet and end up marrying a man who is an exact combination of my mother and father-micromanaging and not there, ei: critical, and avoidant. I made the mistake of telling him about my diagnosis and he used it against me, to dodge responsibility, whenever I felt strongly about something or tried to talk with him about his unsuppportive behavior, by saying, “You’re manic,” or, “You’re such a victim.”
Eventually, this type of dismissal can cause a person to bottle resentment until they act out, in order to be truly heard or taken seriously. This is exactly how I behaved as a kid. I remember vacilating back and forth between love and hate for my now ex-husband.
I now realize this relationship reactivated all those old wounds and attachment deficiencies and I never allowed myself to develop into an emotional adult and “re-parent” myself, even though I was doing all those adult things, like paying bills and working full time.
I share a kid with my ex so we still have minimal contact.
Even now when I try to create an emotional connection and share feelings about co-parenting, I’m still dismissed and written-off, even though I have been working hard on healthy delivery and approach, with communication.
I also have to work hard to boundary myself with emotional communication vs. logistics. This has been a struggle. I don’t want to be with him but still wounded from his affair.
The emotional reaching out and trying to get him to atleast sympathize and validate my point, even if he doesn’t agree has proven that it will never happen because the relating has become more toxic. He already has it made up in his mind who he thinks I’ll always be which colors any possible intimate connection.
Too much time has passed for your situationof 6 minths no contact
Don’t beat a dead horse; the relationship is done. At this point you would be trying to relieve your attachment anxiety even though you know this person is no good for you. Don’t reactivate an old wound, possibly embarrass yourself and then feel even worse. You have a choice. Practice self-care. Live in the present. Breathe and find some support and fullfilling activity.
Also, the bottled up resentment and eventual acting out from not feeling seen or heard or sympathized with further validates their label of you as, “crazy.”
I wonder sometimes if some abusers do this on purpose…they withhold, minimize, deny and wait for the moment when it finally gets you so they can say “see, you’re irrational!”.
Of course they do it on purpose! It’s not just intimate partner abusers, though. Sometimes, toxic bosses or other authority figures will try to purposefully get an emotional reaction out of you to undermine your credibility. I’m not saying that all (or even most) bosses do this, but it can and does happen.
I know you’re right, and I have such a hard time wrapping my head around being so cruel and calculating. I believe they also do it to undermine your confidence, at least that seems to be the goal of my abuser. Wants me to believe I’m wrong and alone in my perceptions.
Wow Em! I can relate to your entire story, especially when you are labeled the “crazy” one from dealing with conflict avoidant/passive aggressive people. I was also accused of being bipolar, and in retrospect I was experiencing healthy emotional responses. So glad that chapter is over, and I can choose who I interact with. If I can’t be honest, direct, and open, then I won’t waste my precious energy. Thanks for sharing your insight, and I hope you are proud of all the work you have done!
Dear Natalie, I wondered if you could do a post on maintaining nc when you have children. My ex lives in a shared house so unable to have our 2 year old at his house so he usually sees her at my house for a couple of hours once a week. It isn’t ideal but we don’t communicate by txt other than to arrange contact
If it were me, I would have him pick her up and take her someplace. The park, the movies, the zoo, for an ice cream, or whatever….that way they have their time together and you don’t have to deal with him. That’s what I did with my ex and it worked well.
BPD and other mental health issues — that’s loaded. It adds complications to relationships both with one’s self and with others. Natalie did a great job parsing that publicly.
Aside from that, I think one of the worst experiences anyone can have in life dealing with another person is that the other person simply does not care about us. That’s plus or minus any mitigating factors, such as mental health.
It’s like a saying I heard once: the opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference.
I think we underestimate just how “cold” cold is when someone goes from hot to cold. Especially if it seems “out of the blue.” It seems unfathomable that someone can shut their feelings for us on and off like a faucet, but yes, it does happen — and often, I think, especially in this age of technology where people can more easily hide their emotional shortcomings.
Being flat out ignored by someone is a form of emotional abuse. Emotional intelligence requires acknowledging the other person’s need to connect at a minimum but then making clear that there should be no further contact.
From just the outside– and i hate to seem as if taking the guy’s side — it seems like the guy went no contact. Do doesn’t feel good to be on the receiving end of that does it? It would be so great if grown folks would just communicate and leave the door open for same but . . .really? Ain’t nobody got time. We do stuff like “I will always care about you” and “we can be friends” etc. but really? They don’t give a damn.
As such, continuing to want to get the attention of someone who has made clear by word or deed that they want nothing further to do with us is *also* a form of emotional abuse. Boundaries are shred on both ends of that kind of equation. Saying “but I have (BPD. . .cancer. . .the plague. . .whatever) to someone who just is not trying to hear us seems to me unreasonable — for both people.
I mean it IS very hard to accept that men really really do move on and through women quickly, without a second thought. Just today, I looked at a very attractive male actor who looked very young but turned out to be, almost 60! I was significantly less attracted when I found that he appeared to have traded in his long-term marriage for a younger model. I mean, he was married again less than a year after the divorce.
Regular guys pull that kind of stuff too! If I had to sit down and mark it out, I would say each one of my exes moved on to significant relationships within, like, *weeks* of us being over. It makes you feel bad, like jeez, did I mean *nothing* to you? Thanks for promptly crowding out any chance we could get back together, eh! I’m in the back of my mind thinking “breakup” means “cooling off,” but noooooooo.
We expect what, loyalty? Lingering feelings? Understanding? Nooooo — it’s not there. I say it’s better to let them initiate and try to recapitulate as long as it’s in a non-stalkerish way, b/c again, I think we just cannot let ourselves feel just how little they care — it’s too hard.
Thanks for your reply.
I just found it very strange because I TOLD him that I know “I’ll always care/We’ll be friends” is something people use as a line to soften the blow and he didn’t have to say it and could let me know if he wanted no further contact – yet he INSISTED he meant it and would always be there for me.
What’s that all about?
It’s not so much about the no contact itself but about, what I consider, insincerity of it all. I don’t know. Maybe I’m weird. I tend to mean what I say. 😛 😉
Steph, lady, on this: Yet he INSISTED he meant it and would always be there for me. , ,What’s that all about?
This is what that’s all about:
He INSISTED=hot words but, to what is my understanding from what you have already stated he proceeded to ignore you=cold actions ergo, blowing hot and cold. We as women tend to place hopes and high value on what is *said*. No, we have to go by what people *do*. It sounds like? You’re holding or held in the past on to some last hope that he care(d)(s) based on words rather than seeing clearly that he doesn’t give a damn, based on actions.
Unfortunately, people in general, not just men, blow hot and cold and either don’t really mean what they say in a tangible way, speak before they think, can’t follow through or change their minds and won’t face up to themselves and/or us to give us a heads up to update their actions. What does that sound like to you? Right– a classic EUM. That’s emotional unavailability for you.
Most men relish a FWB type of situation, no matter what they say about “always caring!” But he found someone else to sleep with! Quickly! Also “caring” doesn’t mean that a person wants to be drawn into the depths of our lives. It might mean, you know, not crossing to the other side of the street on sight of us. But. . .sounds like this guy IS crossing to the other side of the street, he ignores you! Ignoring someone=emotional abuse and lack of emotional intelligence, like I said.
Give you a lighter example: I met a guy recently totally randomly, by chance while I was out. We then e-mailed and connected over social media. Now. There was TALK of making specific plans to hang out again. He SAID he enjoyed my company! I SAID I enjoyed his sense of humour! I found him attractive, if a bit short! He SAID I had a pretty smile! Oooooh, sounds good, sounds promising, right? Hmmmmm.
But the action?(wait for it. . .)
Not a drop. If this seems hot/cold to you, it’s b/c it is. This after I sort of foolishly send a too-long email as if we were speaking in person — describing XYZ, giving suggestions for the next meeting to try to find common ground but also show that I’m active and not waiting around for him, etc. etc. etc. THAT EMAIL WAS NEVER RETURNED! I OFTEN do this, foolishly thinking it’s okay b/c, well, you, know, we’re GONNA talk in person eventually, right? E-mail is just a substitute and warmer for that, right? Erm— noooooo.. .it’s as I said before–a vehicle for hiding emotional shortcomings, people do this to *seem* more present than they actually are.
See, sometimes people *say things* so that 1) They don’t seem like the bad guy(to themselves or to you, I might add) and 2) They get a mini ego stroke from giving us crumbs of hope.
I think you’re feeling the “insincerity of it all” simply b/c you unwittingly invested and valued more in the relationship than he did. That’s why it was so easy to cut, run and ignore you. That’s a bitter pill to swallow — especially if you had sex with him. A lot of times, sex really is just sex to a man, even within a “relationship”– they really can just often go cold without a second thought. Women typically attach emotionally more deeply than men do, quite often. It’s hard to maintain a non-sexual relationship with a man — unless he or we are gay, it is clear that we and him are more like bro-sis and/or he is EXTREMELY honorable and principled, which is, you know, rare.
If you look and think about it carefully, the crux of your situation is EXACTLY the same as my random guy I met. Unfortunately, you just happened to spend more time and heart in the situation–but we BOTH fell into his words and our hopes in just the same way–only to be ignored.
I will end by saying — maybe talk to a guy or guys who is reasonable who you trust for some perspective. Sometimes we can get too stuck when hearing relationship stuff only from women.
Me personally? I spent A LOT of time around guys (uhm. . .in various degrees of honor, I might add — all but a few really wanted to sleep with me, which I did not want, and did not do — didn’t matter their marital or relationship status at times) asking them things, listening to them talk about women, watching them treat women certain ways. I was SHOCKED at how little some of them care, but also SHOCKED by how obvious a good guy can be. It’s like, night and day.
I also for a time had a very good friend who was the only girl in a family of boys relate stories about “the male perspective.” She straightened me out on a few things when I came running to her with my girly tales of woe.
Say all that to say — what’s obvious to ME is not what’s obvious to the next woman — and even with all of that info under my belt, I STILL can get foolish and fooled!!
Lady, Steph, sorry for your suffering. Irregardless of (mental) health issues, this stuff happens again and again until we take some real steps to get wise. That’s what BR is all about, it’s a great resource Natalie’s got going here for us all to backcheck our own BS, as well as that of others.