Curious as to what qualified this person to have best friend status, it became apparent that this was a friendship that had initially appeared to be above board. He’d sought her out for advice because it’s the field she works in and she’s very bubbly, helpful and she admits, rather naive. Because he’s married, she automatically relaxed and assumed everything was above board. She relaxed even more when it turned out that they had mutual friends and that their families knew each other. Feeling safe in his company, she confided in him about her shady pest of an ex and he played knight in shining armour and told the ex to back off.
She, still thinking that he was being friendly, and with her wanting some insider info on what it’s like to be in a relationship, asked him about his marriage, to which he replied with grumbling about his unhappiness and how it was breaking down. Sympathetic, she provided a willing ear and still didn’t register that maybe this wasn’t really a friendship and that there might be ulterior motives behind him confiding in her. Of course it became an affair which is now over, but it never occurred to her that the writing was on the wall for that happened much earlier on in the proceedings.
The basis of her trusting him was social proof, so taking the fact that others she knew appeared to like and trust him, and then following suit without establishing personal reasons for that trust or at the very least, rolling back her trust levels when it became apparent that he was saying and doing things that really weren’t all that friendly.
When we are unsure of ourselves and feeling particularly vulnerable, we often look to others to direct us, even if it’s in an indirect way, so if we know that Tom, Dick and Harry also like Pete, and we like that group of people or consider them to be an authority, then even if we have some misgivings about Pete, we will assume that we must have it wrong.
If Pete gives us an increasing number of reasons to feel uncomfortable, even though we might be tempted to tell Pete to jog on, we’ll doubt our instincts and even wonder if it’s our fault that we’re experiencing a different version of Pete. We’ll want to ‘fit in’ and may feel that calling him out on his actions might threaten our secure seat in the group.
It might not occur to us that how liked or trusted we think a person is might be us projecting our perception of them, or that these people might not know this person in the context that we do.
Let’s be real: there are countless examples in this world when a group of people have known about someone’s shadiness but said or done nothing about it and kept up the facade. From the outside looking in, it’s easy to think that this person is powerful, better etc., or that there’s no point in saying anything because we think, Well, who will believe us?
But it’s not just social proof at play in these situations: Lindsey trusted because he appeared to trust in her.
I think most of us feel flattered when someone demonstrates trust in us by valuing our opinion or confiding in us. What we have to be careful of is those instances where us being seemingly trusted by somebody ends up charming and disarming us to the point where we won’t acknowledge and act upon very real reasons to stop trusting them.
The fact that someone appears to trust us because they’re asking our opinion, confiding in us, or quite simply needs us in some way, does not mean that they themselves are trustworthy. It doesn’t mean that we should be distrusting but it does mean that we need to be discerning where we recognise that how we are isn’t how everyone else is. We need to recognise that life doesn’t dole out experiences in an orderly fashion where we only fancy/like people who have the same values, or where everyone who likes what we do or makes similar choices is the same, or where we are only trusted by people who are as trustworthy as we are.
We’re not obliged to automatically give trust to somebody who appears to trust us and we need to be conscious, aware and present enough to discern motives.
Sometimes we confuse someone wanting something from us with trusting us, in much the same way that we sometimes assume that being desired by somebody means that they value us. This person might want something from us and that becomes clear with the pattern of their actions if we pay close attention.
If you’re a financial expert and a friend of friend seeks you out for some “very personal” advice, you wouldn’t still be regarding them as your friend if they’re raiding your finances.
In Lindsey’s situation, being relied upon for her expert opinion and then her empathising as he confided in her and appeared so vulnerable, was followed by her relaxing and confiding in him. It blinded her to the fact that what she was sharing ended up being used to his advantage but also, that much as she saw his appearances of vulnerability as being a real show of trust in her, his subsequent actions were not in line with that assessment. It really wasn’t that friendly and had crossed to inappropriate. It’s this exact same scenario of one’s opinion being needed or being confided in in close quarters, that leads to a hell of a lot of workplace affairs.
In retrospect she can see where she was being soaped up but also acknowledges that while she did not invite his behaviour (I think you should be able to confide in someone without it being seen as a SOS to get into your pants…), that she needs to be more grounded and willing to assess on her own experience of someone rather than inferences based on a person’s associations with other people she knows.
The takeaway here isn’t to become suspicious of people who show trust in you but to instead become more aware of context and your boundaries.
Choose based on your experience of a person, not someone else’s.
Don’t bag and tag something as friendship just to make something inappropriate more palatable and normalised. There are people who will ask your opinion or confide in you because in their moment of difficulty, they might feel more at ease sharing with you than they might with someone a bit closer to home who they think might judge or misunderstand them. Sometimes a person wants a third-party opinion from someone who has no connection to anything. Don’t give up your positive qualities and become suspicious of everyone and instead, if after you help someone, the interaction starts heading down a path that feels exploitative, step back so that you gain some objectivity and take care of you and the situation with boundaries.
Your thoughts?
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Great post, as usual. I’ve found it’s something to watch out for with potential friends, too.
Hi Crystal – like you totally resonated w me about potential friendships! Perfect post timing as Ive been wondering about friendships and context. Seem to be on a run of friends behaving in ways I never expected. Quite disappointing and saddening. Stepping back strikes me that what I considered to be a real friendship ( they did too) was within a specific context (work friendships, travel buddies, workout pals) but in a different context (housemate, a financial transaction, shift in relationship status) they seem to become someone I don’t know anymore because of how they behave towards me (badly). Realizing that just because I get on well with someone in one capacity, doesnt mean it will hold true across the board. Perhaps we need to experience potential friends under various circumstances before we can really know if someone can be considered a true blue friend?
Yes, great post. My ex had and still has all the social proof in the world that would make you think he’s an amazing guy. He’s chsrismatic and funny and charming and talented and successful. Heck, men and women alike adore him and chase him for time and attention. I don’t know how I ended up tangled up with this man (Prob the same way every girl does), but he proved to be a HUGE asshole. Tried to manipulate me into behaving the way he wanted (submissive and unquestioning) and when I wouldnt, his I’ll treatment of me just escalated until it broke me. I’m still embarrassed I hung onto hope about who he was as long as I did, but I honestly think this social proof thing was a problem. His charm and charisma still makes me miss him (wtf??) and knowing that he’s out with a million other girls now and has so much fun all the time being invited everywhere and adored by everyone makes me seriously question at times whether his meanness and cruel behaviour was reserved just for me. It was not, I’m sure (it’s impossible). And I never did anything wrong except stand up for myself and back off when he was treatin me badly.
Don’t use social proof and strong feelings over your own experience and common sense about a person. If it looks like an AC and acts like an AC.. its an AC.
This came just in time after I have just seen the recently released new documentary on O.J. Simpson. Gosh, social proof can dupe everybody all at the same time. And even after people prove completely void of morals their lifetime of collected social proof still buys them the benefits of charm. O.J has some of the most loyal friends despite some of the abhorrent things he has done to them personally and of course to his wife and others. It’s really amazing how much us humans fall for magnetic personality.
It’s a very heady experience when someone with “social capital” in a community appears to take a liking to you – whether that community is a work environment or a church or a school or just the world in general because that person is physically attractive. And when you have a long-standing unmet need for validation, being liked by someone that “everybody wants to know” makes you feel like AT LAST you have found someone who appreciates you.
And then you turn off all your filters and rush headlong into trusting everything about that person – because you are basking in being accepted into their entourage.
I’m not at all flattered by the phrase “I trust you” when uttered by a person I haven’t known for a long time. I don’t think I’ve ever uttered that phrase to the people I trust. Since trust is really built on actions and not feelings, the trust I have in an individual is due to a long history of them being trustworthy with me. Charmers say “I trust you” in an effort to make you feel obligated to reciprocate. It’s a ploy to make you trust them when they have given you no reason to trust them.
Just recently I had to resolve an overdue home maintenance bill where the handyman had not billed me for a year of service. I gave him partial cash, the rest in a check, and I asked him to sign a receipt and to count the cash. He signed my receipt but declined to count the cash, saying “I can see in your eyes that you are an honest person. I trust you.” After he left I remember thinking “Yeah…. great, but it’s not about you trusting me, it’s about me trusting you. That’s why I required you sign a receipt.”
Oh yep, have definitely been a victim of social proof. Once even, with a guy my best friends set me up with (with the best of intentions!) i guess the thing to remember is that someone can be a good friend but a terrible significant other. one of my best friends is someone who i would never let any of my female friends date.
But C, why would you be friends with someone whom you know is capable of behaving that badly?
Crystal, it’s a really good question and something I have debated myself with this particular friend. I’ve known him since high school and unfortunately he is in our “group”. He has also acted abusively towards me in the past on more than one occasion (as a friend, I’d never date him either).
Surprise surprise, I made the mistake of being his roommate for the past 4 months and it turns out he is one of the worst roommates I’ve ever had. And it’s gotten to the point where I’ve started to hate him. As soon as it is financially feasible for me, I’m moving out.
B/c of this horrible roommate experience I’ve already demoted him in my head. The issue is, despite his many flaws, he is a good person. But discovering that he someone that is a good friend as long as they aren’t a “close” friend, if you get what i’m saying.
thankfully to my knowledge, he hasn’t done anything seriously bad to anyone he’s dated. just been douchey. But he is also a habitual liar. Which is another reason why after we’re no longer roommates he is getting super demoted on the friendship ladder. IT is just too much lying.
Actually I guess… the issue is that despite his flaws, he has been THERE for me in some really tough friends. And is a very loyal guy who does care about me.
Everybody knows he has issues, but he’s also a very good guy. Which makes the situation very perplexing.
His issues all stem from his mom but the problem is that he gets by because people enable him (for example friends constantly lending him money because his constantly in debt due to poor spending habits..etc).
I guess he’s sort of a bipolar person in that sense. He’s either the best friend in the world, or you want to kill him. -_-;;
*in some really tough times..sorry for all the typos
I will not ever cut him out of my life but after living him will just take some big steps back.
I’ve had similar experiences with friends, and it’s even tougher when they are part of your group. The same feelings that they have been there for me and I kept trying to keep them in my life, or in my circle. It never got better and eventually, when I cut them out I was much happier. I have friends now that don’t make me feel like I need to kill them sometimes.
Everyone’s situation is different, but saying you’ll never cut him out of your life sounds like you are trying very hard to keep him there.
I think it’s also important to recognize when *you’re* the one with social capital and folks are riding your coattails/your reputation in an attempt to repair their own. Someone I know is always posting about how much time we spend together and how close we are (and we do and we are) – and the more she does it, the more I realize she has burned a lot of bridges and has a reputation for being terrible to people and I think she’s doing the “I’m friends with (successful newcomer) so how bad could I be?” It’s been a year and I’m starting to see the boundary issues come through… Reconsidering hanging out more with this one because I’m getting that feeling… thanks NML!
Ooohh eesh yeah. I’ve had that problem before too. This person sounds like bad news, I’d stay away.
Yes be careful! I tend to socialize easily, and I value a lot being friendly and welcoming, but a recent ” friendship” made me reevaluate my own attitude: am I too enthusiastic with new acquaintances? Is my being a single child experience shining through? This girl acted very much like your friend, and I’ve had to cut her off (I slowed things down, and now I live in another city, so it was easy). Still, she writes all the time, alternating whining with pretending nothing has happened. Quite creepy.
I made this mistake with somebody who was not married but appeared to have more social capital than me. I made myself vulnerable and then had it thrown in my face as proof I was “damaged” and not worthy of the friendship. Sometimes people like to venture out towards people of percieved lesser vaalue and use them as an emotional dumping ground. They are manipulative and they do not want to make themselves vulnerable to people in their social or work circles for fear they will be diminished. It is a game easy to recognized when you get burned by it. I have been in this position since and I just let them say their thing and then offered nothing in return. Real friends people who actually want to know you won’t mock you or make you feel bad for opening up.
Paula, thanks for this insight. The connecting with a person of perceived lessor value to use them as a dumping ground, yes now I see it.
In my former social circle I was the high value person. In my new social circle I am perceived as lessor value.
No wonder people stick with their own. It can feel like a mine field out there.
I’m in the process of no contact with a few friends because the friendships weren’t in my best interest. These people weren’t bad; I liked them, but they weren’t very supportive or positive and I feel like I can’t get by with just cynicism in life or the sound of crickets when I really need company. So, alas. I miss them already, but I know this is best for me and it’s a decision I had to make and own; I can’t rely on anyone else to tell me who to give my time to save me.
Stay strong! I’ve been through this too and it has been very hard, it still is: but one of the most important things in life is to be surrounded by supportive, loving people. If not then one’s better off alone. It is scary and lonely at times, to do what you did, but be strong and use the extra time to take good care of yourself 🙂
I know I have fallen for this too.
There is someone that I am taking my time to get to know and I have serious doubts about her. I wonder if she senses it and is trying to get me to trust her. She was pushing me for my email address so she could add me to her group email list and I declined. She pushed again. I declined. She is the leader of this group I’m in (for a hobby I really enjoy) and since I am new, I get a lot of attention. I get the feeling she doesn’t like it, but if she’s with me, she gets it too. There’s a guy in the group who was (is?) interested in me. She was interested in him (I wasn’t sure about him and was taking my time). She “forgot” to invite me to her party (which he was going to be attending) after I would not tell her the name of a guy that I dated in the past that wasn’t a good guy.
I’m pretty sure she’s competing with me. I have noticed that she talk a lot and when I speak she does not listen. I don’t think she’s a ‘bad’ person, she isn’t good friend material. So I’ve decided to keep going and enjoying my hobby but remind myself that just because she has a background in social work, is socially minded, and seems to be well liked, doesn’t make her trustworthy. Keep my cards close to my vest.
She sounds like an insecure, petty pantload.
Once again, out of nowhere, you hit the nail on the head. As a gay woman, I make it a habit not to date bi or straight women, because they always end up missing male ‘equipment’ I neither possess nor want.
I have tons of male friends I adore; I just don’t like their spooge. So sue me.
I shop at an art supply store every week, and I spend a lot so they treat me like a goddess. I even get a 20% discount on every purchase, so I am very loyal to that store.
One of the clerks, whom I will call Robin, is one of those women whose goodness illuminates her from the inside out. From the moment we met, as a REIKI healer I could tell she was an empath and a special person. She and I felt like old friends the day we met. It was a soul-to soul connection. I assumed she was straight so I willed myself to just ignore her beauty and sexiness. They were not my business.
Generally with straight women like her, I don’t try to initiate contact off the job. I gave Robin some info about the art I sell online because she asked to see it. On my card was also my phone number and e-mail address. I didn’t ask for hers.
This week she texted me for the first time. Seems her boyfriend of 12 years got physically violent with her for the first time since he’d done it 5 years earlier. I asked the usual questions– did she photograph it (yes), did she call the cops(no), etc.
We texted for an hour and finally I asked if she wanted a REIKI healing. She did.
Please note, REIKI is my religion and in 25 years I have never, ever used it as a gimmick or prelude to sexual activity. The thought of it would me feel like a fraud and no longer worthy of having the sacred gift of healing.
The healing on Robin went perfectly. She was a conduit for all the energy that came to me and through me. She looked totally serene afterwards.
We sat on her balcony afterwards and, because I had told her via text before I agreed to do REIKI on her that I never hit on bi or straight women, ESPECIALLY during REIKI, so afer the healing I figured we could discuss anything and we both could relax about whatever topic came up.
I follow-up texted her this morning to ask how she slept.
After some hemming and hawing she admitted that some things I either said or did from the night before felt like I was coming on to her sexually and she felt uncomfortable.
Thought I was gobsmacked and it was incredulous to hear that stuff, I remembered she’d just been beaten, she was traumatized, I had healed her, and whatever she meant was a mystery to me. I asked for specifics, but she just said don’t worry about it, it’s all right.
I replied, “No, it is not all right. If you feel I did or said something inappropriate, I should know what it was so I don’t ever repeat it. Meanwhile, I apologize and assure you it was not my intent.”
Hours later she replied by text, “Thank you.”
I do not know what the funk just happened.
Did I mistake a spiritually advanced being with a drama queen?
Please, I need you ladies and gentlemen to give me your take on this. I am sitting here like a moron wondering what just hit me.
Haven’t we all witnessed a man saying “She wants me” about a woman who doesn’t even know he’s in the room? And don’t we all know a woman who thinks every man she crosses paths with is making a pass at her?
Robin’s ego wants to think you made a veiled pass at her. I think she willingly misconstrued things said in the after-session conversation because she was in need of a validating ego-stroke and – maybe also – a story to tell to the errant boyfriend. I think she may possibly be bi-curious. She was the one who initiated the conversation that led to your invite to a Reiki session.
Stop ruminating and keep going to your favorite store and make no more offers of Reiki sessions. If this is about her curiosity, she’ll find a way to be alone with you again.
Could be for attention maybe or to feel desirable after that awful experience with her bf.
“Stop ruminating and keep going to your favorite store and make no more offers of Reiki sessions. If this is about her curiosity, she’ll find a way to be alone with you again.” I agree. If it’s about drama…you’ll soon discover that as well. Either way, it’s on her.
Wow. As a bi woman, THANKS for putting us all in one offensive catagory! I wouldn’t want to date you either as clearly you are a small minded you know what.
I would say more of what I think of you based on your offensive as all get out statement but refraining.
C, here are two rules from the guidelines for this site: 1)Don’t be aggressive towards other commenters. 2)If you can’t respectfully disagree, don’t comment.
Now, C, if you think you can deal with those rules, this is my question to you –
I did not read any general insult to “bi” woman in any of these answers, but it is clear that you do see an insult. It matters not if it was my response, or Veracity’s, or Karen’s….I just am seeking to understand you.
What is it in the above statements that offend you as a bi woman?
I am a minority, and I bristle at things people say that they think are well-meaning, but are actually insults – like complimenting me on being “well-spoken” or “not like the others”. So I want to learn what was said in the above posts that wave a big flag of “gay” predjudice. OK.
For those of you who don’t know, there is actually a significant amount of hate and disrespect against my fellow bisexuals in the gay community as well as in the straight community.
We literally can’t win.
This is the highly offensive and illogical statement: “As a gay woman, I make it a habit not to date bi or straight women, because they always end up missing male ‘equipment’”
Yeah, because you know, loooook at us bisexuals! Clearly it’s ALL ABOUT THE EQUIPMENT and we are actually secretly just DYING FOR THE DICK. God give me an f-ing break. Because you know, us Bi’s just can’t control ourselves or be loyal to the person we love.
We are too gay for the straight community, or just a straight up hypersexualized joke (Look at Tila Tequila), or you know, us bi girls are just “doing it for male attention.” Or perhaps “a phase”. And to lesbians, of course, our identity isn’t real. We are just “experimenting” or some b.s.
Or my favorite “so you just don’t have enough experience to choose one already?”
And then you get people like this who claim our affections towards the same gender are somehow “less valid” because of our orientation. And that we are apparently not actually even into girls because oh yeah, you know, eventually we’re just going to “want the dick”.
So offensive and just gross.
No, I will not apologize, because statements like the one made above are bi-phobic and *not okay.*
Think of it as if we were talking about RACE. Something else that people have no control over, such as my bisexuality.
“As an [ASIAN] person, I make it a habit not to date [BLACK] or [HISPANIC] people, because they always end up missing the ‘equipment’ of their “own kind”.”
Now when I put it into this light, do you see how offensive it is? Or swap race for any other sort of characteristic one is born with.
So yeah please don’t lecture me for defending those of my sexuality against a highly offensive comment.
C,
This sight is about uplifting people without the drama so please don’t come on this sight creating drama.
Hey Sam. This site*. 🙂 Out of respect for Nat’s rules, I will refrain from doing anything more in response to your comment.
C, like Elgie, now that you have put across your points about why you responded in that manner, I understand where you’re coming from and it is something that we can all learn from because many, and that includes people within the LGBT community because believe me when I say that not all bisexual people will be triggered by that comment or see things in the same way as you but, that doesn’t exempt you from respecting boundaries–mine and those of others. I recognise that you are going through a lot but it is twice in less than a week that I’ve had to remind you about aggression and respect. I only have to do this on a *handful* of occasions in an entire year so I have to ask myself, Why is this continuing to happen?
This is not a forum, it’s a blog so this kind of interaction is not acceptable or permissable. As much as you are going through issues and have things that you are sensitive and even triggered about, so do a hell of a lot of the readers and your tone and language including the typo correction and emoticon, may cause other vulnerable people to feel unsafe. I have these guidelines, not just for your protection but for the collective protection of this community. I am concerned that actually, you are in a very vulnerable place and that commenting is accentuating that, so I would ask that you take a step back and consider whether you’re going to be OK with staying within guidelines and not using posts and the comments to defend aspects of yourself (which you don’t need to do btw). Please take care of yourself.
You’re right Natalie. To be honest, I have been lashing out at a lot of people both in my real life and online. I’ve been having issues fighting w/ the state government to get medical insurance as there was some sort of issue with me moving cities and not reporting this move promptly enough, I now have some big medical bills incurred after the time my job’s health insurance ran out. That plus the lawsuit against my former employer, and not having a great living situation in a dangerous area, it’s just so much stress and it got bad enough that I got placed on an involuntary psychiatric hold at the ER due to my panic attacks. I’m really stressed out and starting arguments with people/getting aggressive for no reason. I really apologize for having violating the guidelines, I’m going to take a break from the website and come back when I’m not so stressed out. Apologies to all involved.
Thank you for your answer, C. You did a good job of explaining what you found offensive and I understand the whys of your feelings now. You made some very valid points and my eyes have been opened. I can see why you feel the way you do.
To be clear, I was not asking for any apologies. This forum is a great place to share your points of view. You don’t need to sledgehammer every point you want to make. As Corporal Hicks said to Ripley in Aliens – “Ease down. Ease down.”
Yeah you are absolutely right Elgie re: the quote. And thank you for actually caring to ask why the comment upset me, and for understanding my point of view.
I wasn’t angry at you, just generally angry at people making those types of comments. Honestly it hurts way more when I hear it from someone within the LGBT community than from the outside, because you would think/hope a fellow queer person would know better than to question your identity in such an insulting way. 🙁
(it’s a trigger issue so i apologize for my aggressiveness in the response, elgie, as i know that 99% of people outside the lgbt community would not realize it goes on)
How can it be possible that every time I come back to this site, you have written about exactly what I am going through. I told my brother’s friend I like him. I regret it. The time I told him I like him, it’s like he has been treating me so bad. And making it like oh I don’t think I actually want to date you but he was supposedly really into me for years. I shouldn’t have. I didn’t really know him I just thought i did. He’s a jackass. One minute he is just like oh you are great, the next it’s like well I’ma see if I can put you on my schedule. I’ve known him my whole life. I really didn’t think he would treat me this way but he really thinks he shits golden eggs. Oh puhlease! I really am disappointed because it seemed as though knowing each other would have made a difference. We never dated but me just telling him I was into him was a big mistake. He’s like a little boy. In all fairness he basically did tell me he wasn’t ready to be in a relationship. I should have dropped it there. But no, oh course I didn’t. I’m glad things didn’t go pass that.
Hi Natalie,
I tried to see if I could contact you in a different way but I’m not sure how, so I just wanted to ask you if it’s possible that the Facebook/ Twitter/ Google plus etc bar can be moved to a different spot? I always use the page down button on my laptop because I can’t do that here because that bar is in the way LOL…. And I don’t want to miss out on an important sentence!!! Maybe you can move it more to the side if possible. Also wanted to add that I LOVE all your articles and blogs!!! Thanks for that!!!
I mean “but I can’t do that here” (not ‘because’) 🙂
This is yet another reason I have problems socializing with and belonging to larger groups — very often, there is at least one person at the center of the group whom I find insufferably creepy. No one else seems to see it. Or that person is creepy with me, usually when the others aren’t around, and normal with everyone else. Sometimes even both. Sometimes some of the others realize that I am on to something, but usually by then it’s too late.