One of the most popular subjects on Baggage Reclaim is the area of when people overestimate their capacity to be or do something, or overestimate their level of interest. When done habitually whether it’s with one person or across several relationships, it’s called Future Faking – talking about and even amping up the future to get what you want in the present.
Some people bestow time, effort, and emotions. Some people bestow future talk – gets the same result, possibly even more in record time plus they may not even have to be around for when the future rolls around.
Future Faking is bedmates with the people-pleasing habit of telling people what they want to hear. We’re all guilty of the latter at times but when we do it on the regular, we’ve become adrift not just from who we are but also from what we know that we’re actually going to do. We’re also being far too short-term. If we were truly thinking beyond the moment and not enjoying the flattery of their reaction, we might think a bit harder about the expectations that we’re creating and even any commitments that we’re making.
We’re getting high on our supply of a dreamy future.
Let’s be real – it’s a magic bullet that’s got many of us into bed far quicker than we’d intended, got us back into a relationship best left in the past, and has even gotten us to part with our money.
While some people Future Fake and tell people what they want to hear out of shadiness, what most people who do this are, is guilty of enjoying the feeling of having pleased someone.
They like how they look in our eyes. They like how they imagine we are feeling. They like what we reciprocate with as a result of their talk. It enhances their self-image.
When we find ourselves being shortchanged due to someone being more talk than action, rather than attacking our worth and checking through the mental CCTV to try to work out where we screwed up to provoke this person into not following through, what we should be looking at is what type of role was this person playing?
As I was thinking about the numerous tales of men and women left feeling confused as to why a Mr or Miss Unavailable Future Faked and told them what they wanted to hear, it occurred to me that all of this chit-chat (read: ‘well intentioned’ bullshit) allowed them to dine out on the part of Mr or Miss Available without actually having to truly risk. They could playact at commitment without actually being committed and enjoy all of the trappings that come with expressing these sentiments without actually having to live these sentiments.
In their minds, talking about commitment is as good as making the commitment.
They actually expect to feel committed and for the commitment actions to manifest themselves without their full input.
Even though they didn’t truly deliver on the actions end of things (remember that somebody who is commitment-resistant will feel like something basic is a mega effort), in their minds, just thinking about extending themselves and playing this show out in their minds and in what we didn’t realise was the preamble to them getting cold feet and pulling the plug, was commitment.
If it didn’t work out in their mind, if they’re not feeling compelled by another person to break ther typical habit, they write off the possibilities, press the Reset Button, and then lather, rinse, repeat with the next person. This also further distorts their self-image and general perception of past events because they focus on recalling how they made people feel good, not on how not following through caused pain and confusion. It’s for these very reasons why they may return to their exes and keep a foothold in their lives – they remember how good these people felt albeit temporarily and want to recoup that feeling. Then they’ll be offski again when they disappoint or revert to acting up, and yet still reminding themselves of how they look on a good future talking day…
Eventually there will come a time when even they don’t quite believe their own hype and of course, there’s only so many times that they can blame their usual excuses before even they can’t escape their own BS.
When somebody Future Fakes you or tells you what you want to hear, it’s all in the moment stuff so in reality, what they’re saying has a short shelf life because if you’re conscious, aware, and present and so not driven primarily by the short-term, you will notice very quickly that the chit-chat doesn’t stack up. The easiest way to minimise how much you are caught out by this malarkey is to reduce your own telling people what they want to hear. You won’t enter into things verbally on the basis of feeling good due to temporarily having made someone feel good (even though you’re going to let them down in the future or feel bad about what you’ve obligated yourself to). You will also be more focused on feeling good as a result of matching words and actions.
Your thoughts?
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Well, for me it wasn’t so much about telling her what I thought she wanted to hear, but rather doing something that I wanted to see. I wanted to believe in our relationship, and since nothing was really working out in the present, I thought: Hey, let’s paint a rosier picture of the future. By focusing on that future, I could feel better about the present. My specific “future fake” was suggesting that we look at engagement rings. “Let’s just look at them and see what happens,” I said. She agreed. So we went from jewelry store to jewelry store – and checked out rings online – for several months, patting ourselves on the backs (or at least I was patting my own back;-) that we were doing something “positive” re commitment and our relationship.
Gradually, the faux ring search faded into the mirage it truly was, and we were left holding the reality of the present. Ah, well. Another future fake goes up in smoke. :/ Funny how fantasy and reality don’t mix in a real relationship.
I am definitely a future faker and love to hear people future fake with me. How do you avoid it, when it’s so much fun to daydream about future plans and then add the thrill of someone new who agrees that your plans are desirable?
I am soon moving to a beach community in Washington State that is an art colony and has gorgeous scenery, legal pot and gay marriage. I am recently retired and intend to spend my golden years by the beach making art. It is not a fake future, I have meticulously planned it out including how to finance it.
So, how do I weed out those who future fake from those who’d truly love a set-up like the one I have created for myself?
Karen
Sounds more like an action plan not a future fake!
You’ve just got to keep looking, someone will love the plan, love you and there you go …
Note to myself – get an action plan in place!
Thanks, Pauline! 🙂
Excellent! I like how you connected seeing through this stuff with making sure we, ourselves, aren’t doing it. Because when I stopped people pleasing and realized having all my energy trumped being liked by takers, people pleasing itself started looking and sounding odd and fake.
The last guy I dated was so effusive with his compliments, and it didn’t get me high at all. I used to get really charged off of a guy’s initial interest in me. Now I’ll get a little happy glow, but won’t lose sight that he is a total stranger. With this guy, his compliments just felt weird and contradictory to his frequent cold eyes and mannerisms, and ultimately directly contradicted what he was actually willing to do. I was amazed when I asked him about monogomy about four weeks in and he acted like I had just burdened him with some highly serious decision he wasn’t ready for. Really? Because on our second date you gave me about 1,2359332 compliments, and now you’re making me feel like I need to convince YOU to continue this engagement. Talk about a bait and switch!! I actually remember saying to him “I deserve a guy who is excited to be able to call me his girlfriend.” Once you are saying that to someone, you know you’re in trouble.
Staying grounded and in touch with our intuition is the number one defense we have. Also the daily mantra “I am equally filled with worth and value whether or not this guy likes me, follows through, or disappoints.”
Cheers!
Thank u 🙂 I have an ass clown trying to get back in my life and he’s doing the future fake, but this post told me what’s really going on. Just say no to commitaphobes!!
I’ve been dabbling back and forth on this site for years, remembering the mess I was in about seven years ago. Slowly but surely gaining the confidence to be who I am and understand what healthy looks like. For instance, like you were referring to, I met someone recently and we both kind of ending up sleeping together a little sooner than I would have anticipated because drinking was involved. (I knew he wasn’t the future faking type) so when we last seen each other I told him that we are sleeping together and it is great, just a little odd if we were to be with other people at this point because with someone I like I like to concentrate on them and what do you know he said “Yes I think there is a certain responsibility that comes when you are intimate with someone, I know I have my profile hidden but if you feel more comfortable I will delete it and of course expect you to do the same”…. (wow… a little different than the types I’ve dated years ago when I was a different person, not thinking that I deserved that)… because if he would have turned around and sounded like he was scared to commit I would have let him go. Not to say this new interest is here or there because it is very new, but just very refreshing to be with someone who is capable and willing to offer a certain level of commitment as you mentioned.
Gina,
That is great! You know, it can be so tricky to forge healthy authentic intimacy while dating. The truth is beyond basic respect and being available there is no set rule book.
I think we are all allowed to fumble around and find our way however it works out. Good luck to you! And take care!
I was drawn in by a future faker. And it wasn’t that he told me we would be married and have babies, the biggie lies… it was the little ones that got me. The ones I had no defence for and just accepted because they weren’t big deals – *(remember that somebody who is commitment-resistant will feel like something basic is a mega effort)
What a shame hindsight can be. What a blessing a lesson learnt is.
Since I have never commented before, the first thing I want to say is a big thank you to Natalie. Since I started reading this blog, I have truly begun to change my life for the better, and words cannot express how grateful I am.
After too many years involvement with a EUM/AC in a setting I am too embarrassed to admit, I have been NC for about 2 months now.
The catalyst was that at our last evening together, he blew so hot, he “blew it”. Huge amount of future faking, and a fair amount of “past faking” too, he tried to convince me how fundamental and important I had been to his successes, and will continue to be.
The unforgettable line? “You are like God to me” (Ever heard that one before, ladies? 🙂 LOL
(I credit Natalie with being able to laugh about it now)
I wasn’t a complete idiot, I knew he couldn’t be serious, but I thought maybe he is just really naive. I had suffered already much from him being on and off, hot and cold, and liberally using the Reset button (though didn’t recognize what it was before reading BR)
It was true, I had been very supportive, so the future faking where he painted me being as an important part of his life for years to come didn’t seem far-fetched. Conscious of my past hurt, I didn’t let it overly impress me, but I took it as as evidence that, despite all his failings, his heart was in the right place, that he recognised my worth (wretched validation seeking on my part).
But of course, I should have known, it couldn’t last in any shape or form.
Shortly afterwards, he disappeared on me, completely.
The disappointment and heart break was so intense this time, I vowed it would finally be the last time (after 5 and a half years).
Natalie’s books and blogs helped enormously, and with NC in place, I have managed to get over it to a fair extent.
The future (and past) faking was so overblown on this occasion, when he diappeared it completely ruined my image of him. (The full opposite of what he probably intended) Truthfully, if he hadn’t blown so hot, if he had been consistent on the luke warm level, I would probably still be hooked.(A sad but honest truth)
He overplayed his card, and when he got scared and fell off the radar, I just lost all respect for him, which, along with the endless list of hurts, was finally enough and made me start to respect myself.
Anyway, good luck to everyone reading.
Getting off the merry-go-round is a choice.
I wish everyone the necessary strength to make that decision.
I also recently had my final moment that FINALLY pushed me over the edge and I literally felt that “switch” in my brain saying get out and get out forever. It’s an amazing moment really, and one in which I also lost respect for “my” AC. I believe that it was thanks in part to BR that I had the strength to tell him “it’s over” (about 10 times because he kept trying to find ways to stay in my life).
I’m very happy for you. Two months is a real accomplishment when trying to break free of something that lasted so many years. How much different do you feel now vs how you felt in the beginning? Was it very hard at first even though you knew you’d had enough and were doing the right thing?
Hi FedUp,
I’m sorry, I didn’t see your message before today.
Felt the need for some “classic” BR as I was feeling nostalgic (honestly despising myself for it, but I guess I have to accept I’m human).
Anyway, Nat’s advice is always spot on, reminding me of what brought me to this point in the first place.
Regarding your question, I think at the beginning, once you decide you really had enough, it’s comparatively easier, because the hurt and disappointment propel you into protecting yourself. In my case, the heart break was so bad, my self-preservation instinct kicked in. (Admittedly very late)
I believe the most dangerous part comes when you actually start feeling better. Once your anger abates, you can forget/minimise just how unhealthy the situation was. Nostalgia can creep up on you (hence why I’ve been reading old BR posts today).
I’ve kept NC despite temptation, and won’t break it for anything. But it’s odd how feelings change: you see, at the beginning I was wishing to hear from him, so I could snub him (and have him know it), but now I really hope NOT to hear from him, because it’ll be distracting and bothersome, and I may fall into ruminating, even though I won’t act on it.
I’m overall happy with my progress, but the fact that I needed to come back today, and answering your amazingly time-appropriate question, made me realise that I do need to stay vigilant. Boundaries need to be in place not only when you feel strong (which can oddly be when you’re terribly hurt), but also when you’re vulnerable (namely when you feel good and your guard is down as a consequence).
I hope you’re still on course and going strong.
Good luck!
I had one of those, except I didn’t let him b.s. me again. Not only did he try to future fake me about having a relationship, but he conveniently forgot that he stop seeing me to be with someone else! I was always baffled why he came back acting like nothing happened and he was the greatest guy in the world. He actually thought I was happy with his treatment. All I can say is thank God, I had enough sense to know that he was full of S$@t and walked away from the madness.
met a guy and went out 5-6 times in about 3 weeks. he is 51. he was soon gone after i wasn’t willing to be intimate “yet”…… soo happy i listened to myself…. this time
I think I was more drawn by his beautiful future that he painted for me, I belived him like I do not have a future of my own, I just wanted to be in it so much, I would do anything to see it happening. When I think of those dark days, it is like I can undo everything, but it was my learning path anyway.
What makes me angry is that he never VERBALLY promised me “any future,” but he would only mention “if things work out fine for us” and I would really want them to work out.
When I think of the hard work I put in that relationship, trying to please him and everything, I actually (lost) myself on the way trying to reach out to him, not knowing that I cannot. If only I new about what I know now, I wasnt even aware that people can be this cruel, to me, it always have been: You meet someone and you fall in love. never really know about this mind games.
When men started hurting me, I started dating the commited ones, hoping I would never have to give them my all too, to me it was 50/50. I was not aware that I will fall inlove with this last one, today it is two months no contact and I do not regret every second of it, I just regret all those years I spend running after unavailable men
Great post Nat.
For me being future faked, was a big part of things, a huge part of the dramatic hook.
Like the dooff doff sound at the end of Eastenders (Popular British TV Soap), it was intrinsic in keeping me tuned in, hoping things would get a bit better, be as exciting, as the Narc was promoting them soon to be.
But it never got better, in retrospect it was climb the walls boring. Same storylines, same loops, same returning other women, same AC bad jokes.
What is exciting about about a formula ?
Louise,
Your post could be mine. Lots of plans that never materialized. And yes, every time I went to his house! it was the same routine…terribly boring, same stories (about him, of course), nothing to bring to the table except ending the evening in bed together. And yes, all the same women that he loved to mention every time I was with him. I clung to the hope that I was different, and his future faking would turn into reality. Nope. Four years later I finally got tired of it all. Would I really want to spend my life with someone that only gave me pain and wasn’t even interesting. Bye bye.
Matlou, I was not promised any future either but it was regular and predictable, “let’s see if things work out, let’s give it more time, I need more time.” That held me, especially after I had invested myself and time I didn’t want to let it go. And yes, I could undo everything. It was a learning path. Very hurtful but rich and life changing. Never the same or any similar relationship again. I can’t even imagine it was me. It seems like it was someone else in my body. And that was only few months ago. Unbelievable. Like I had a double personality, but the other person in me has died and the new one has emerged.
YES! I absolutely agree – I can ‘t even believe that was ME, letting myself be treated like a shiny little toy – only getting his crumbs – when it was convenient for him. You nailed it.
Hi all,
In my experience, people have made false promises or misrepresented themselves because they’ve been quite disconnected from themselves- they have no “gut sense” of what’s going on, what they feel, what’s right for them, what they’re capable of, what they truly want and need for the long term. They’re like a little kid distracted by shiny things one second, and heading in that direction, then bored and chasing after some other momentarily appealing stimulus. They go for what feels good in the moment– which in some cases means riding a wave of attraction and a positive idea of themselves in someone else’s eyes and in other cases (when they start feeling uncomfortable or overcommitted) means fleeing or “moving on”.
It’s not always malicious or even intentional, in my experience, but still these types can’t be trusted because they don’t know themselves, and how do you be true to yourself and emotionally honest if you’re closed off from who you really are? Yuck- that’s a very confusing and painful place to be.
I like the connection with people pleasing, though I think the future faking version of it tends to cause more damage.
Very astute points Izzy…
I agree that these future fakers often do not know themselves. Also, I think that sometimes they might “mean” what they say in the moment, but they lack the empathy or ability (or both) to think about the consequences (good and bad) of what they are saying and how it might affect the other person.
I agree that they are very much like children who get distracted easily and don’t understand consequences. That’s “best case” scenario. Others are malicious and deceitful and selfish that want what they want and want it RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow be damned, much less a month or year from now. This is the type of person I was caught up with. It’s very damaging.
Izzy and FedUp, indeed. I am glad you are seeing those men for what they were. I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel too now. It’s not just me. He will be like this with any other woman. New toy, excitement, admiration and it’s all gone. Bored and fleeing. Not into you, not committed, you are not the one for me. Of course, there are so many other toys out there and when you can’t get connected to your own feelings and are afraid to be intimate, that’s what happens, you run from one person to the other. I remember his words, “Right now I am having fun with you, you are a great, smart, caring, fun, and beautiful woman. But will we have the same relationship later? I don’t know. People get bored with each other. People get separated. Look at you. you are divorced. Relationships don’t last. Don’t ask if it will last or not. I am enjoying it now. I don’t know if we will be together in the future.” I need to forgive myself for not listening and bailing out really early. Learning to forgive myself all the mistakes I made to cause me such hurt and damage.
Yes, forgiving oneself can be very difficult. I struggle with this as well. Why is it so hard?
It is hard because we think we are in control of our life events. In a way we are, but ultimately, we can do only so much and sometimes, we just need to let go.
You did the best you knew at the time. Now you have new knowledge and understanding. Not forgiving oneself is not believing that your mistakes/bad judgments/wrong choices can make you grow and lead you to become a better you. Make better choices, attract good people, lead a more fulfilling, peaceful and fear free life. I am telling this to myself more than anyone else. I am learning.
I had a thought today. It is my bad day of ruminating, caused by hormonal phase too I am sure (of which my friend always tells me, “Hormones are a scary thing. Time to sit quietly and not do any sharp moves!”), so I thought, ok, I always think I can’t forgive myself for the mistakes and for the bad things I think I did during the relationship. Yet I think I have forgiven him. But have I?
I believe in the long run, during the healing process we need to try to forgive both. Yourself and him. With time. Don’t push it yet. Later when time comes, work on it and give it time too. Rushing forgiveness is unnatural and will fake the healing of the wound meaning it won’t do anything. Nat has a good article on the subject. Plus time and healing are essential to be ready to forgive. So, today, as I was ruminating, a thought suddenly came to me that not have I only not forgiven myself, I haven’t forgiven him yet either. And I realized that once I start working on forgiving us both, it will let go. And again, this is not a magic switch process. It is our own recognition of the need to forgive both of you, time, and willingness to work on it. There are no magic tricks to the whole process. You don’t wake up tomorrow saying, “Today I will forgive me and him.” So…. that’s a new glimpse I got today in my healing, post breakup self-discovery. Forgiveness of both, which implies recognition of the mistakes and misgivings in your relationship, our weaknesses, blindness, and flaws. In your case, the guy is obviously a supreme AC. You will need to work on forgiving yourself for not seeing initially for who he was and so hurting yourself, but luckily you got out fast!!! You will also have to eventually learn to forgive him, so you can free yourself. When I was thinking today, why it is so hard to let go I think I might have found a little bit of an answer for myself. I can’t let go and forgive him that he didn’t love me as much as I loved him and as much as I wanted him to love me and as he said he did. And I can’t forgive him for stopping loving me (if he did love me in the first place). Can’t forgive him for stringing me along for a year while knowing or at least suspecting most of the time I am not the One but yet throwing “maybe let’s see” future faking. For making me go through an abortion. For faking support and love after the abortion only to dump me 1 month later, after I became the most vulnerable and thought we had become closer because of that and he stayed by my side instead of dumping me right at the news of my pregnancy. These are the thoughts that came to my mind today as I was having a bad time crying and wailing. I can’t forgive myself for being vulnerable and trusting, for trusting he cared for me, for trusting that he did intend to be with me although red flags and much more had always been present. So I recognize all the keys of the pain I am holding on to and have been as I am going through the grieving process. So, what I have figured out (maybe I have, I am just learning, it’s a learning journey indeed), that to help myself let all this go I need to forgive us both. Not meaning to forget and call him up to let’s hang out like fun buddies we used to be. But to help yourself to free yourself from the bitterness and pain.
I am telling all this more for your future – near future help, because you are still in the beginning, but you might go through these feelings soon enough. So that’s my advice and maybe it will help you. I just came up with this idea today. I read a lot about forgiveness and self-forgiveness, but I never seriously thought about it and considered it. Maybe I am still not ready. But somewhere, deep inside I believe that’s the only key to letting it all go. With time and work to let go all the pain we are holding to about ourselves and others. It is very hard I know. But I have a feeling it is liberating and empowering.
I wish I could give you a better advice. Your post came right on time when I was experiencing really hard time today, or actually on and off this month, as I am struggling with what I hope, are the last pains and the nearing of the acceptance (with some recycling storming in on and off but in shorter spurts).
The best thing for you already happened: you escaped the situation fast. Recognize and congratulate yourself that you didn’t trust and stay. That would have been a mistake that would take more time and pain to recover from.
Forgive yourself for getting involved with that king of ACs. You were temporarily blinded. Happens to all of us. The best thing is that you are free now:) And you have our support here on the BR. We will make it through to the other side!
Sofia,
Very insightful and well thought out comment. I will take this to heart. I want to start with forgiving myself first. I don’t know if I’ll ever forgive the AC but I know I will let this go eventually. Maybe that’s the same as forgiveness? I guess it all depends on how you define it.
Right now I’m squarely in the ‘anger’ stage of NC and I’m quite content here for now to be honest. I’d rather feel anger when I think of him than sadness….I’m not quite as pathetic. However, I will not allow him to indefinitely have a hold or influence on my mind and my life. I am working every day to surround myself with positive, grounded people who are authentic and loving. I’m doing all kinds of things that I want to do. It really makes a difference.
Sooner rather than later, he will fade further and further in my rear view mirror until I can no longer see him because my eyes are squarely on the road ahead.
xoxo
FedUp, this is your 2-3rd week of NC? Great job! Has he tried contacting you?
Yes, about forgiving him is more like letting go, I think. It’s when you are indifferent about him, so the forgiving happens automatically. We are humans, not saints. It’s hard for us to make ourselves forgive others upon our command to do so. What I am hoping is that with time the letting go will happen and it will be equivalent of forgiving them. And of course we will never forget them. I am 36 and this is the first person in my life from whom I experienced so much hurt and grief. It has been quite a transforming experience, all for the better.
A friend of mine told me that possibly, when more time passes by, when let’s say you look back one year ago and remember all the bad things that were happening already at the time (so in my case September-November this year will be when the distancing and pulling away started occurring last year) , that’s when the lifting off might happen. right now, when I think of a year ago, it was a very happy summer last year. Well, “happy,” as far as he was still into me at that time and claimed love and that he will be with me. So I am hoping that once the unhappy, bad times of a year ago will roll and I will look back and compare how much better off I am now than a year ago when he started pulling away from me causing anxiety, fear, and stress, then perhaps I will start feeling even better and letting go will occur more naturally. I am still partially in the good memories a year ago mode. Maybe my theory is not right, I don’t know. I will see.
Anger is good. I was not feeling anger the first 2-3 months past breakup. It bottled up as depression, sadness, self-blame and internalization. Only in the last 2 months I started experienced anger and downright scaring rage feeling when I want to smash things and strangle him and beat him up or do something violent (not acting on anything of course, but that’s the feeling. crying out/working out helps. praying helps). But that’s good you are experiencing anger. You are letting things out. Pay attention to not spend in anger too long because it can become persistent and chronic. Just like any stage of grieving, we need to be careful to not spend too long in any of the stage. Whether it’s sadness, self-blame, guilt, shame, anger, denial, final rage. You might get out of your pain much faster. Your ex was such an AC, it’s just breathtaking. I think and I hope you will be able to heal faster. His actions are so obviously ACish, it’s just unbelievable how this person can live with himself without changing his ways.
You will be free from him soon. I can feel it from your post. You see all the wrong things and it’s wonderful. The problem with my story is that the guy was never straightforward AC or EU. He did a lot of nice and good and consistent things yet a lot of confusing and ambiguous things, which now I see with clarity were not that confusing. Those actions were screaming, “Wake up!!! I am casual with you!! I am just for fun!” It’s hard to recover from a nice bad guy. I thought I was getting all better and got hit again in the last couple weeks so I am back on BR, reading and writing. Helps tremendously to hear other stories and offer some advice and help others.
Do please come back here. Invaluable support from wonderful people.
Sofia,
Your comments are always so well thought out and insightful. I really appreciate that.
I do not know if he has tried to contact me because I blocked his phone number (thank you iPhone!) and have all of his email addresses set to automatically delete if he tries to email me. It’s been 2 weeks of NC. My mom believes he will try to contact me again at some point – probably when I’m coming out of the fog completely and REALLY moving past this. It’s like they have a radar detector for when we are making real progress without them.
I agree that we cannot spend too much time in any stage. This morning I was having a lot of negative thoughts about myself after a weird dream starring the AC and his wife. Things like, you’re such a dumbass, what a moron you were, you’re not special, you’re just like all the other idiots he’s slept with….every time I would have a bad thought I would literally say NO out loud and replace it with a positive thought about myself. I’m feeling better already this morning because of it.
It’s amazing how our emotions can change from day to day. Yesterday I was angry, today I’m sad and having a pity party (very unbecoming). But like you’ve said, we have to be gentle with ourselves and let the feelings flow yet not hold on to them too long. I’ve been getting involved with new people and activities and it’s helped some. The worst time for me is first thing in the morning. He used to call me every morning at 7:30 on the dot and we would talk until 9:00 when I got to work. I just miss the companionship but would rather be alone than have someone like that wrecking havoc on my soul.
I will definitely hang around. I’m looking forward to getting to know you and the others more. This is such a great site. What a God send!
Oh yes, emotions change daily. For me too. I read your story again and similar stories of others here in this thread, and I am wondering if it would have been easier for me if my ex had been an AC too. Such an obvious AC. The problem in my case he was not such an obvious AC. Complicated. That’s why I wrote so many times on BR before that maybe “he was just not into me after a while. feelings go away, things change, priorities shift, etc.. ” Anyway, in your case, the person is so blatantly AC and I see you are even laughing about the golf video in one of your posts on the bottom of the page. I chuckled imagining you laughing. That’s so cool you can laugh at this so early at NC stage. That’s just awesome. High five and really great job! You will be rid of this douche in no time. He is not worth a moment of your thought.
Yes, different emotions will come and go. When you think you are a bit better, your dreams of him will disturb you. I haven’t watched any romantic movies or listened to romantic music since breakup. I listen to classical music, workout music (tuning out the words), or French or Italian ( I don’t understand the languages). There will be different reminders throughout. Like you are saying the time when he used to call you in the morning. Those set routines and habits are hard to undo. Our habit was to talk on phone each evening before going to bed. The first month of NC I literally sat on my hands to not dial.
You will have a fast time recovering, FedUp. I know it’s not easy, but I am telling you and many other people here, your guy , your rather ex guy, is truly the best example of AC. It’s an epitome of AC. Classic case. I dated one few years ago and I thought that something was wrong with me. Now I can’t believe I loved that person. I am laughing at it. This recent ex EU epiphany part… The hardest thing to overcome, is that he is the BEST relationship I had since my marriage ended (8 years ago). And I thought I had a catch. By “catch” I mean a person who is not an AC, who has a great job, education, confident, intelligent, all the nice societal things present. Consistent, considerate, etc. That’s the problem with good nice but EU guys. They are nice for most of the time. Just unavailable. Or unavailable for me only? Very confusing.
I like your attitude and I think you are doing great. I am sorry, but when I read about your ex AC , I want to laugh myself. It’s sad actually, how can a grown man be such way? I can’t believe it. I feel bad for these people.
Nat’s work is God sent indeed. She has helped so many people and we are helping each other. I consistently and increasingly have been reading spiritual material and going to church but without the BR it would be still difficult because I am still just a human and a woman. Simple straightforward , tough love honest words, or warm support and encouragement are invaluable.
To add: true ACs do have radars. He WILL find a way to contact you. He might knock on your door. Or write a handwritten letter with kisses and perfume all over and a bow over the envelope. Or he might sing songs under your window at night or lay down on the doormat (haha, doormat) in front of your door. And cry maybe using a microphone. These Future Fakers are ACs are excellent performers. I know one from years ago. Great that you blocked the phone number and e-mails are deleted. I don’t have to do any of that. Mine will not contact me again. Another thing that proves he was not an AC and makes it tougher for me.
The support I have already received on BR has been overwhelming. I am so happy to be here and thank you so very much for your kind and supportive words and thoughts. Your advice is really great. I am going to work first on forgiving myself and working through ALL of the lessons I have learned from this mistake. Believe me, there are many and most are purely about me and my weaknesses.
I will try to forgive him eventually. I don’t know what forgiveness actually means sometimes. If it means getting to a place where the thought of him does not affect me either positively or negatively then yes, that is my goal. He doesn’t ever need to know this either…it’s not my job to coddle him or soothe his “pain” for what he did to me, as he said he will never forgive himself and even if I hated him and told him to fuck off (I kinda did already?!?!) he would always love me and wish we were together. GIVE ME A BREAK! Ugh, enough! lol. I’m still in the angry phase if you couldn’t tell. The good news is, there are finally times throughout the day when I’m not thinking about him or the situation at all. I’m fully immersed in whatever I’m doing and living in the moment. Now, those occasions aren’t as numerous as I’d like, but it’s barely been a week and I need to be patient.
I look forward to hanging around here and posting more and hearing everyone’s stories. Together, we will find the other side!
hugs!
He doesn’t need to know your forgiveness and letting go of him. And you know, when that does happen, you will be so indifferent to him, that the thought won’t even cross your mind whether you should let him know that you forgave him. The beauty of indifference. The person is just a bleak memory, some face in the distance. We will reach that point.
Just work on forgiving yourself. I am learning how to do that. I think it’s really important in order to move on. It’s all a process. Takes patience and dedication and belief that the healing will work.
I agree Izzybell… your first paragraph totally described my ex. I was the shiny thing for about 10 minutes until he was distracted by the next woman who came along. I don’t think he was intentional malicious, just another dumb guy with the emotional psyche of a 15-year-old. I even told him I thought he was “lost” and didn’t know what he was doing – and I hoped that was the case, because otherwise he was just a selfish, superficial, immature bastard with a very small heart and little conscience. I didn’t want to think I had been the dupe of a real asshole so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. However, people who are merely lost and disconnected from themselves and chasing what feels good in the moment can still do a HELL of a lot of emotional damage to others. Forget about saving them, helping them, fixing them… Best to run, not walk, away as fast as possible.
Hi Wiser,
well, if he’s really a bastard etc. that’s demeaning to you and your choice to like him so I think giving him the benefit of the doubt is the better option. he probably genuinely thought you were fantastic, Wiser, because you probably are. some people just don’t do monogamy/fidelity. better to cut them loose when you find out that’s their MO than end up with someone who isn’t designed to provide you with what you really want (if that’s a long term, committed relationship). If you’re loyal and considerate and capable of committing then you deserve someone who is too.
Izzybell – you just described my ex. Wow. He’s always been a chase a feeling, grass is always greener kind of guy who I used to call an emotionless robot. IT was good for me to read what you wrote in the way you put it. He’s also very manipulative. He contacted me a few weeks ago flooding me with I miss you, I need to see you, I miss our friendship blah blah blah. I told him he couldn’t come over and he said he was just going to take his chances and show up. At that point I resigned to the fact he was there….seducing me with his words and wanting to be with me. He kept saying I want to please you, touch you etc. Then he kissed me and it was all over. Did I mention he moved in with his gf a few weeks ago? I was so pulled in…then the next day he pushed me away like he always does by telling me that he still doesn’t feel the attraction he thinks he needs for a relationship. Saying that his gf wears makeup when they watch tv and that makes him more attracted to her, she cooks and cleans. And that her ex husband was an ass so if he does something small around the apartment she thinks he’s awesome. I was just floored. He is so shallow. And I am glad I am not with him. He also told me that moving in with her was a good opportunity to get out of his mom’s place. I was like yes, its always all about you and how to self service you. He is really messed up….anyway – sorry for over sharing but I got on a roll. I had an emotional hangover a few days after he bulldozed me but I am doing much better.
Izzy,
This is really insightful and well stated. The guys who have future faked with me have all seemed lost in a way. Not necessarily with their careers or social groups, but in a more general way. Like they didn’t have a clear sense of who they were. They lacked a strong foundation. And underneath their very confident facades, seemed quite insecure.
Thanks, Sally. Me too. And I’m guilty of being naive, overly trusting and assuming that anyone I’m with must have a strong foundation, even if they are struggling momentarily. But this isn’t necessarily true. There are lots of people out there who are a bit lost, don’t trust (or even have) gut feelings to help guide their actions, and are casting around trying to fill up the emptiness inside without regard for the damage they do. I think perhaps I have been one of these people at certain points in my life too. And when I’ve been with someone in this state, hanging in there hoping he’ll figure himself out hasn’t really worked out well for me (and I’m sad to say I’ve tested this out numerous times). Now I know to look for someone who isn’t a big giant mystery to himself. Confidence, career, social status etc. is nice, but they don’t count for much, imo (at least in an intimate relationship) in the absence of self awareness, committment and some level of responsibility for how one’s decisions and behavior impact others.
Izzybell,
That sounds terribly familiar to me… My boyfriend and me broke up 4 months ago. We’d been together for 10 years, living together for 5 years. He was a nice guy but completely disconnected from himself. He could not build a solid life and earn his own money consistently. He was always involved in numerous projects, all failing, never really working hard to make it happen. But his words… man. He was a great talker, he could sell a refrigerator to an eskimo. He was funny, charming, intelligent, but all this was wrapped around a complete lack of discipline.
And so it came to an end 4 months ago: at that moment he finally did not believe his own BS anymore. He said he made a mess of his life, and he was moving to his parents’ house. To figure out what to do with his life. He wanted a break, but I broke up with him, intuitively knowing that the process of him getting to know himself would probably last months, maybe years. I am not going to wait for that.
But man I still love him. We are on NC sinds 6 weeks and it’s though. He was my best friend. Izzybell, I can so relate to what you are saying that future faking is not always malicious or intentional. But still, you don’t want to be cycling with them in these happy thoughts that will never materialize. I did that for too long… Thanks for your thoughts.
I’ve been seeing someone for the last 6 months. FUTURE FAKER. He is separated, but still lives at home because he lost his job and hasn’t found another one yet. Yes, I do believe he is ‘separated’ because I have seen texts back and forth between him and his wife where she is explicitly referencing him sleeping in the guest room as well as saying things like ‘I know you are over me and I’ve accepted that’. I am also separated, but am further along in my process and live apart from my husband.
The man I’ve been seeing is someone that I’ve known for 3 years. We used to work together, and had a very close professional relationship. We never talked about our personal lives, and neither had any idea that the other was having so many marital problems.
I kept my separation quiet for a long time, but when I started telling people, he was one of the first people I told. He then told me about his separation. We started talking every single day. What was once a good working friendship became a very intense emotional relationship. A couple months later, the relationship became sexual.
We started talking about a future together. And by we I really mean both of us. He was a little more assertive with it than I was, mostly because I wanted to wait until he moved out of his house to get more serious. But, my emotions took over and I started to believe we could have a real future together. Here is a sampling of some of the things he’s said to me:
-There isn’t another woman on Earth that I would want my daughter to grow up to be like more than you
-You are the perfect woman for me
-I imagine your first name with my last name
-I dream of our life together
-You are my best friend
-I’m closer to you than anyone else in this world
-I can tell you things I can’t tell anyone else
-You’ve made me better
-You make me feel like I can do anything
-I want to be a better man for you
-You make me want to be a better father
Pretty intense stuff right? Well, here comes the crazy.
Over the course of the relationship he has confided some very scary information to me. In a nutshell, he has NEVER been faithful to his wife of almost 20 years. He was cheating on her before they got married and has cheated on her with dozens of people since they got married, including a couple of days after returning from the honeymoon. When I displayed the appropriate, disgusted reaction, he said well there were years when I was faithful. And I said no, you’ve never been faithful. This whole marriage is a sham and she doesn’t even know it! He said he’s never been caught, but she has been very suspicious and accusatory at times. My heart was aching for this poor woman who I’m sure is suffering emotionally beyond description. To “know” but have no evidence must be awful.
Anyway, about two weeks ago he tells me that he’s “struggling with doubt” about “leaving his daughter”. He says that if it weren’t for her he’d have been long gone and we’d be engaged by now. But, it “breaks his heart” to think about ripping her world apart. So, my response was that clearly he had some issues to resolve within himself and we needed to break up and stop talking in order for him to do that.
He cried hysterically (almost hyperventilating) and said his heart was breaking….that he can’t imagine his life without me, he’s just struggling with doubt about his daughter and he thinks that’s normal. I said yes, doubt is normal trust me I had my own doubts at times too but at some point you have to trust in the future you want for yourself and move forward. Anyway, I didn’t “dance” or play pick me, I just told him to call me when he figured out what he was going to do – stay or go. Not that I would be around when he called, just that I didn’t want to hear anything from him in the meantime. He said well you can block my number or emails, if I want to get in touch with you I will make a new email address or call from someone else’s phone. Wtf!
He kept asking me if I believed that he didn’t “do this” on purpose and that he meant it when he said he wanted a life with me. I told him it didn’t matter what I thought at this point. He wanted me to stroke his ego and feel better about his future faking but I refused.
My struggle is – why can’t I trust that this guy SUCKS. It’s like I’m in love with the idea that someone could love me so much that they’d change their ways for me. It sickens me to think about losing him but there is a part of my brain that knows I could be for a lifetime of misery. Please help me see the light. PLEASE!! I feel so stuck emotionally and have barely been able to eat in the last two weeks because I am so sad. It’s like I’m going through a drug withdrawal. It’s been 2 weeks of NC.
This sounds horrific fedup, please stay away, keep reading and keep posting. He is a mess, he wants things to stay as they are,he has no skills or humanity to take it further or make it any different. I think detoxing from these men is like cold turkey off of class A drugs. Keep drinking water, getting as much nature as possible, and keep remembering this is not normal behaviour, this is a very damaged and dangerous man.
His reckless actions and phoney words are deeply honed,his act is polished, he is off khe scale, you deserve better. NO CONTACT
Louise,
I will keep reading and posting, absolutely! BR helped me a lot because I started reading about a month ago and it helped me see the red flags more clearly. So when s*** hit the fan, I was “prepared” to some degree.
I am disgusted with myself for ever being involved with him, much less sleeping with him. He used to say “you can do so much better than me” and “I don’t deserve you”….well, at least he got two things right!
Fedup…I read somewhere (it may probably be here also on Nat’s site) that these lines are classically commonly used by idiots who are no longer wanting to be in the relationship (after getting what they are after). It’s a huge, though subtle, major hint I am thinking to go ahead and do leave, cowardly for sure rather having to do the actual break up (evident in your case as he is no longer making himself available). I know the ex used the very same words so don’t read anything into it, and you are already worthy and deserving of everything, that includes a man (if you wish to include) and not solely so.
Thank you Gina. I wonder if they all have a fucking handbook or something that gives them a script to work from. The common phrases used between FFs and ACs is creepy!
It was like he didn’t want to let me go (I feed the ego of course) but didn’t want to fully commit either. It’s like that one picture that Natalie posts from time to time on Facebook: Some people can’t commit – they can’t commit to being with you and they can’t commit to NOT being with you. Don’t disrespect yourself by waiting around for them to get off the fence! PEACE OUT!
When I was doing the “breaking up”, he tried every little thing to keep some kind of attachment to me. Including asking if we could wait until July to break up (wtf) or if I would send pics and videos to a mutual friend so he could see me (wtf x2) or if he would be able to see my Facebook pics if he signed into his brother’s account (wtf x3).
Gross.
Your ex is a sociopath, I think. Truly. Or a 13-year old. Sigh….
FedUp,
Be thankful that AC’s etc all do read the same handbook of a**holery, it allows us to recognise them very quickly when you hear the crap falling out of their mouths.
One can avoid them without any problems then.
Louise, you are absolutely right. FedUp’s story is eerily similar to mine. He could not leave his deadbeat stepdaughter and her small children, he would “destroy” the children . . . then, when he finally decides he can’t take the horrific behavior of the step daughter – he is finally free – he immediately jumps into a sexual relationship with a woman who apparently told him within days of meeting him that she would love to have his child . . . all the while trying to let me down “gently” and crying alligator tears while telling me he wants to always be my “friend” and that this is “ripping his heart out.” Yeah, right buddy. My take on that is that he’s now hooked up with a mirror of himself – another Future Faker! The fire burned hot while they were working on making that poor innocent baby. Now? Not so much, I’m thinking. I’m hearing some troubling bits and pieces through the grapevine of mutual friends. All is not rosy in his new “Paradise.” But he’s painted himself into a corner now – if he leaves this relationship, he will really look foolish and he’s too vain to risk that. He will stick it out – but my guess is she’ll eventually leave him after she figures out he doesn’t even love himself, much less anyone else. He should be the poster child for EU/Future Fakers/Fast Forwarders/Enablers//Toxic men. Thank GOD I escaped the madness. Very painful, but better than going through my life with an unstable personality.
OMG Gentry. You dodged a HUGE bullet. How long have you been free of this man?
He told me everything in his life was “on the table” – including our relationship one year ago (June 26 to be exact). 4 days after I returned from Europe with my daughter. We had met for dinner the day after I got back and he was all weird and cried like a baby – when I asked him point blank if there was someone else, he looked horrified and said “NO! That’s not it!” (Dear Lord – what a liar!!!) and went on about how he had this epiphany that it hit him suddenly that he HAD to try to have a child. Of course, that was not gonna happen with me at 52. Nope, I think he found someone to have sex with while I was gone, and bonus – she has an 11 year old and a 4 year old as backup in case he can’t get her pregnant. So anyway – after he confirmed that our relationship was “on the table” since he was having such a soul searching in his life (ha) – I completely withdrew – I would not see him – but I was talking to him and long FB chats late at night for the next five weeks. He’s saying constantly how much he loves me and cherishes me . . . blah blah blah. I go on FB around 10 pm August 5 – and BAM – there’s a lovely profile pic of him and some lady with her arms all around his neck and he’s “IN A RELATIONSHIP”!!! As you can tell, I’m still not over that crap. I just wrote how I couldn’t believe he would be that juvenile and dishonest with me (he said “I was going to tell you . . . but I didn’t know how – all sad and teary) I was in total shock. I knew he was moving on with his life, but to try to deceive me all summer, actually told me he was nowhere near ready for a new relationship, would take his time, keep his standards high (! – excuse me!) well, that’s what I’m just furious about. So the next morning I emailed him from work email, instructed him to not call or email me anymore and to expect a package of some poems his deceased mother had written that were special to him, I wouldn’t keep something like that. Also, all the jewelry and special keepsakes I could gather up quickly – nothing expensive, but I didn’t want any of that. So after that, no contact til I decided to offload the rest of the accumulated crap he had given me over four years. I did not want to spend a dime in mailing it and I was ready to face him. So NC Aug-March. Best thing I ever did, though hard. And again NC since March. And no need to ever again contact him. Oh, and I blocked him immediately on FB that night when the jig was up. Sorry to be so long winded but it is therapeutic to purge! I know he could not believe I wouldn’t give in and be his little “friend” – while watching his baby grow in his girlfriend’s belly. Are you delusional, you stupid idiot? Guess so. God, it all sounds so tacky – I’m really embarrassed that I even associated with someone who would conduct their life in such an insane manner! I was the calm, no-drama part of his life – but clearly, he feeds off the drama. Well, he’s sure got a crapload of it now! I am still mad, but not constant anymore. After a year, just feeling mostly relief. I know it will give me a twinge though when I find out the baby is born. Oh, and get this, his new chick is not such a young chick – she’s 44, almost 45 and having a baby in the next 2 weeks! Oh my. I’m all about babies, but this whole thing seems so rushed, forced, and contrived! So, so weird. Makes me really question how in the world I ever got sucked in by someone like that – and then I remember the flattery, the promises, the over the top compliments, all the flowery love talk .. . . but I’ll take honesty and integrity any day over that lying cheating fool! Okay – rant off ; > )
GentryG9 – I believe that my ex is hooked up with a mirror of himself too…he doesn’t care about people and doesn’t even know how to love people. They moved in together – and 3 weeks ago he was begging to see me and be physical with me. I caved. After he pulled me in he then pushed me away saying very shallow things such as ‘she wears makeup while we watch tv which makes me more attracted to her’, she was married to an ass so if I help a little around the house she thinks I’m awesome’ and ‘she cooks and cleans’ and ‘she is like a guy – doesn’t care what I do’. His words hurt me for a bit and then I realized why in the hell would I want to be with someone who focuses on things that don’t build a healthy relationship. I felt like he was saying I didn’t wear enough makeup therefore he wasn’t attracted to me nor did I let him do what he wanted. But that’s not the case. He is a messed up guy who will eventually move on from this girl to find another emotionally unavailable girl etc etc etc
FedUp
RUN, RUN, RUN like hell and don’t look back, don’t think, just get away and stay away … FOREVER.
You’re hooked on the FANTASY of what could be, and the REALITY of who he is has disgusted you, what more do you need to know!
It’s a no brainer dear girl. Hugs
Pauline,
I will not look back. The last straw (finally) came when he told me that a mutual acquaintance of ours was threatening to tell his wife about his cheating ways. He asked me if I would be willing to lie for him about it! I couldn’t believe it. My brain literally started tingling all over – a very visceral reaction to this user and abuser. I said, you want me to help you save your marriage?! He blew up and said, I don’t give a **** about [wife’s] feelings, I just don’t want people to know that [daughter’s] dad is a whore!
Wow.
FedUp
Wow is right! I’ve been reading your other posts about this guy. He’s all over the place, has absolutely no self control and absolutely no personal dignity and would think having ethics is something to eat.
He sounds like a child who has never grown up, never had to take responsibility for his own actions and has never wanted to, more to the point.
He’s been getting away with this type of behaviour for years and the sad thing is, he will NEVER change.
He not your problem, and unfortunately we can’t brand dickheads like this on the forehead as a warning to avoid any personal involvement.
I have an idea that unless his daughter is too young to understand what a whore is, she probably knows, kids just aren’t that dumb!
FedUp, you answered your own question,” It’s like I’m in love with the idea that someone could love me so much that they’d change their ways for me. ” Has he changed anything for you?
From your story about him I would Run!!! Cheater, overemotional, hyperventilating even!!, overreacting, all the performance. I don’t trust him.
All the words he said are too much. It’s theatrical.
“He said well you can block my number or emails, if I want to get in touch with you I will make a new email address or call from someone else’s phone.” – That’s pathetic.
RUN!!!!!
I don’t trust the guy. My opinion.
He hasn’t changed a damn thing. There is always another excuse. “I need to get a job first so I know what my options are”, “I’d sacrifice my own happiness for my daughter”, blah blah blah.
I feel bad for the wife for sure but feel even worse for the daughter. She is his scapegoat and God only knows what kind of mind games he’s played with her already in her young little life.
FedUp, I feel bad for you, his daughter, his wife. How much suffering can one person bring to others before he wakes up himself, if ever?
Like everyone says here, RUN.
You are so lucky you escaped early.
Sofia, at least he knows he is a whore (his own words as mentioned above). Maybe in others truly knowing about it will stir him into committing to change his awful behaviour toward women (and at least to stop all the lies). That is another tactic idiots use to keep their squeaky clean and/or hey I’m the good guy image….all hogwash and outrageous (smh).
I doubt it will ever come out. I don’t think the mutual friend will spill the beans. Knowing this person as well as I do, they would’ve already done it by now if they were going to do it (most likely). The AC will just continue to live his life of lies…faking being a family man, going to church, doing things for others. He needs others to think that he sparkles. He is rotten on the inside. What a lost and sad soul. The degree of insecurity and self-loathing is off the charts.
Sofia, I’m sure there are many others whom he promised the world to along the way. After all, he’s had dozens and dozens of affairs. Surely others were told the same things I was. Who knows how much damage this asshole has truly done…
I’d personally tell him to get into therapy and call you in a year. There’s no way he’s going to go from chronic cheater to monogamous committed type. Cheating is the way he deals with life. He hasn’t figured out how to change that. He may never. But that’s just my opinion maybe someone else has something different. Good for you for not making him feel better about his FF. I’d recommend the book “Men Who Can’t Love” because he sounds classic. As long as he’s got one foot half out the door — which he did with you as long as he was officially still sort of with his wife — he could say everything he said to you. But as soon as that was done and everything began to feel real and there was no impediment to your being together, suddenly he was concerned about his daughter. Once he’s with you completely he will start to feel hemmed in, just like he did with his wife. Then he starts looking around for an escape route (ie cheating). Actually he should read the book, but these guys usually don’t think there is anything wrong other than that they haven’t been struck by a bolt lightning (ie the right one!). Good luck and very sorry for your pain. I’ve been there with the EUM who cried so hard he was hyperventilating (he also had snot running down his nose) and I thought that must mean something. I was wrong.
Diane –
We talked about therapy – he said it’s a “waste of money”. Red flag.
Thanks for BR I knew better than to coddle him and give him the “forgiveness” he is looking for. I don’t think I will ever “forgive” him per say, but I will eventually let go of this…I just know it. Even though it’s hard now, it’s a process and I just have to keep going.
I have a therapist and she’s wonderful. I have friends that I trust to talk to about this. I also ordered the book, Women Who Love Too Much as I want to focus on what changes I can make within me to avoid repeating a mistake like this in the future.
He caught me at a very emotional time in my life. I never, ever would have suspected him to be this kind of person because I “knew him so well” for over two years before this. He wears his mask VERY well.
Dear Fed Up, good thing you didn’t waste any time on therapy. I actually went to therapy with my future faker who wept fake crocodile tears in the session when he talked about having to face a life without me. He told me he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me and was crazy about me (er, he’s crazy allright) he also told my daughter that he loved me and he wanted to be with me. Yada, yada, yada. Therapy does nothing for these disordered a-holes. He probably future faked the shrink too, with promises to return, which he never did. As soon as he got me back with lies he quit therapy and I wasted a year waiting for him. You dodged a bullet, your ex sounds like a narcissist at the very least. I am sorry for what you are going through. Thank God for Nat! When I found out about future faking it was the key to everything I had been going through. Good luck to you, everything’s going to be ok as long as you stay NC!
Lucky Charms,
You are so right. And I’m so sorry that you went through what you did as well. Some people are just too far gone I think. NC all the way!
hugs!
Diane, good point. I think that too. These guys don’t think anything is wrong with them. They think they have not met the right one. That’s what my ex said. That I am not the right one for him, but perhaps, I will never meet the One. I will stay single forever, he said.
FedUp
He has cheated on his wife of 20 years, during most of those 20 years. It´s simple: he WILL cheat on you.
He WILL.
Don´t fool yourself, he WILL cheat on you.
That is, unless you accept it, ditch the blahblah and move on. And don´t look back, you don´t need someone like that in your life.
A friend sent this to me and it really helped:
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/manipulator/special.shtml
I recommend it to anyone who thinks someone with a pattern of shitty behavior will “change” for them. I am looking into my own emotional issues that got me to this point. I have everything going for me in life: great job, great friends, great family, my health…this AC was the only sore spot. Now that he’s gone even though I am reeling emotionally from the trauma of it all, I feel a weight has been lifted from me.
When I was dumping him he said that he “didn’t want to be this way” (a cheater) and that when he goes to church it makes him want to change. Uhhhh, ok but you haven’t changed anything! I’d never feel safe with him. I’d never be able to trust him, and for good reason!
AMEN – they will never change! Run, run, run like the wind!
He sucks. When you feel better and you will, you will be almightily glad that he kept his eye on his own personal emergency exit door, his daughter.
The withdrawal you are going through now will pass. I wish I could reach over and reassure you. I’ve been there FedUp. It feels as though it will never end but it will. And just as you feel slightly better and more aligned, I could put every penny on a bet that he will pop up again.
It’s true, he can’t help himself, he meant it all at the time, yada yada yada. What a weak streak of see through rancid liquid.
Take the facts.
No job
Still living in the marital home
Unresolved relationship with the ex (guaranteed)
Using his kid as an excuse for his behaviour
And run, my friend, run all the way.
He isn’t the only option you will ever have, you are. You choose yourself now and in the future of your own making. All of those things he said to you? say them to yourself.
And I bet your last name looks just right with your first name as it is? And you are absolutely the perfect woman for you.
Hold your head up, see that in the distance? That is the future where everything is going to be much much better than this.
seamstress,
Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words. I have read so many amazing stories of triumph on BR that I know I can do the same. I just can’t believe how only 6 months of my life can leave me feeling so wrecked. It really is the ultimate mindf***. I can’t imagine being married to him for almost 20 years and all the pain and loneliness that his poor wife must feel. Even if she’s never found any “proof” of anything (he is the ultimate gas lighter!), in her heart she must know that something is very amiss.
“What a weak streak of see through rancid liquid.”
I love it!
I second everything you said, Seamstress!
Well this looks like a huge BS:
“I imagine your first name with my last name”
Stable, mature and serious man will never rise the topic about marriage in this way. For me it’s as he said “I imagine …”
This dude has imagination and looks like he loves to live in a fantasy.
Yup. He’s like Peter Pan. Lives in a fantasy world and doesn’t ever want to grow up. He was making plans to marry me like 1 week into dating. Had I known of BR at that time I would’ve run like hell right from the beginning. He caught me at a very emotionally vulnerable time in my life and all my common sense went right out the window. I was so scared of being alone and thought I’d never have to be again. UGH!!!!!!!!!! Such a moron I was. And apparently I’m also Yoda, haha.
Sometimes we are blinded, because of their beauty, social status, age and etc. We think, that if a person for e.g. is 40 years old, then he is mature enough and know, what he is doing. I see people, that keep the same shitty rebound behavior and blame the others for their problems.
Take your time, enjoy your time with yourself and never look back to this person. The guy has issues and only he can help himself.
If you can stick to NC it will be great. These folks find crazy ways to contact and to mess up again.
This is about my store if you are interested:
In my case after my miss EU/AC removed me as friend from FB, she wrote to me 3 times before I put her in spam and never looked at her again when we crossed paths :
1 ) She asked if I can hire her friend. I was firm and said, that we don’t hire people.
2 ) She saw me on the street and I was with sports wear. I got FB message, with suggestion to go to shopping and to improve my dress code and also she will give me perfume as present. This change should be for the dates ( she wasn’t clear enough, but I think, that this was something like attempt to help me to move on, but this for me was like I she is rejecting me again ). I didn’t accept and said, that I am grown person and I can take care for my self.
3 ) I was still emotionally attached and confused, so I decided to stop to use FB for a month. My idea was to get some time and space and if she writes to me, then I will see the message after weeks and etc. So I will resist the desire to answer on time. My friends were joking why I don’t use FB, because they knew the reason and for them this was p***y behavior.
When I opened my FB account I had message from her, she was inviting me to eat pizza. The message was 2 – 3 weeks old. I just answered, that I prefer the situation to stay in the same state ( no meetings, no communication ), wished all the best and she was moved in spam filter.
We crossed paths a couple of times, but I turned my head in the opposite direction. I don’t know what to say more, but we had boiling point / drama in the night when she removed me as friend from FB. She was the person, that initiate the break up, I chased her for 2 – 3 moths and when I gave up, she started to send mixed messages and bla, bla, bla. I didn’t know what is happening and I did a provocation after one of the messages. I asked her to visit her at home and to watch movie together. She said, that I got her, wrong. Well then I said, that if I get her wrong and she is convinced, that she doesn’t do anything wrong, then I have problem, so I will step back and will keep distance from her, so this is the end.
I wanted honest 5 minutes conversation this night, to say goodbye, sorry and etc. I wanted this so much, but she rejected. I did the most stupid thing, I knocked on her door, but she didn’t open. I still feel shame and guilt, because she is single mother and the door, that I knocked was of the apartment where her daughter is growing ( I knew that at this night the kid is not there, but I really crossed border ). I expected she to flush me totally, because I was potential risk for her and the kid. Well she wrote to me 3 times before I totally cut the contact, it’s till a mystery why she wrote to me. I accept the message about the perfume like attempt for brainwashing, it was like accept this gift from me and as reward keep cool when we cross paths so she can keep her cool social status.
I closed the business and moved in another country. 3 months I am out of the country and I don’t see her, because we don’t have a chance cross paths. I don’t regret my decision. I am feeling better, still have flash lights, but I am not angry anymore. Hope, that I will never be abused again.
NC is the key!
fedup – its hard to convince yourself someone sucks when you have illusions created. Trust me I am 89% convinced my ex sucks but sometimes nostalgia and things blind me for a bit. But if he’s always been a cheater, a cheater he will always be. And even if he did leave his wife for you – what is stopping him from leaving you?
It really pains me to read this. It was the major operating principle of my ex during my long term marriage. But I think his dreamy future faking and hype of the way he was going to be and what he was going to do was mainly for HIS benefit…to continually reassure himself that he was such a nice, decent person and so that he didn’t ever really have to look at his lack of action – which is what was important to me.
I am not sure if he thought much of me at all when he made his pronouncements but he often liked to repeat his promises to others so they would be impressed. Although I do not engage with him and if I am in his presence either remain silent or talk about business arrangements, he will say such gems as, “when we are separated I look forward to taking the kids (all adults)on all expenses paid vacations.” This is done to make him look good and me look bad but well, it is the way he is. (I sure can’t do this). I think this goes along with “I always have good intentions” because this is the magic escape clause for future faking when reality intervenes. No, I did not do this even though I promised I would and you depended on it but my intentions were good…again ALL to preserve his sense of being such a nice guy.
Future faking is also a sign of an impulsive person and so they can’t really be trusted. It is the sign of an undeveloped person….like a kid who gets all dreamy and thinks of a plan they would like even though it is fantasy. He was the guy who told me that in the initial period after separation he would be the best friend to me possible and would give me all the consideration and things he didn’t in the marriage and how he would NOT get involved with another woman because he needed to grow and change and the next day started an intense emotional affair on the plane with a random woman and made sure I saw all the emails. It pains me that it took me so long to realize that he was a genuine future faker who was always pressing the reset button because I had my own fantasy – I just couldn’t believe this was true…and I really WANTED to believe in good intentions. I really like what this post says about really being aware of not telling people what they want to hear. I really have become more aware of matching my words with my actions which is why this past year has been so devastating to me as I haven’t done it myself.
That they are SO concerned with what everyone else thinks of them and so unconcerned with the pain they’ve inflicted on us is traumatic in itself.
I remember when I caught him in bed with Skankalina. He REFUSED to apologize (unless you count the one he hollered at me) or to discuss it on any level. He was, however, on the phone right away calling all our friends explaining that he got “busted” (he did add that I merely caught them in bed naked together, and nothing really happened). That way, they get the idea that he’s handling this like a stand-up guy.
Their lack of awareness doesn’t keep them from actively protecting their reputations, just owning the devastation.
In bed naked together, and nothing really happened? Are you serious? If these friends of his believe that, they kinda deserve each other.
Clare….that was in 2010, and to this day he swears up and down nothing happened. It was one of our friends that relayed to me what he had told them. No…..they weren’t buying it. He’s still the only one who believes that might be a plausible story. At least there’s something to laugh about now…it was just incredibly unfunny at the time.
Espresso,
You’re in my thoughts. If I recall correctly, your plan is to move away from your ex by the end of August. I hope soon you’re free to lead your life as you please. The more you write of him the more it confirms my belief that he’s away with the fairies – the ones that feed his illusion about being a good guy with good intentions. I understand it must be annoying to listen to his self-promoting tape record that just doesn’t match his track record. The end is near – soon you’ll have less & less contact with him. In their minds, people like him run kangaroo courts in which even if they admit to feeling guilty & sorry, they don’t hold themselves responsible for mistreating or misleading others because they insist it was never their intention to do so. So, as you rightly said, it is this emphasis on “good intentions” that enables people like your ex to live on patterns that “benefit” them but not others. It isn’t surprising that in their defense future-fakers prioritize intentions over actions – they focus on their intent at the expense of the *impact* their words & deeds have on others. I’m glad you aren’t buying into his good intentions. Regardless of what took course in the marriage, you’re no longer colluding in the act of being future-faked by him. Cheers to you!
In an attempt to save face, people are going to use all sorts of self-exonerating gambits to justify their illusions, lies, and actions to themselves & to others. It is what it is. Exceptionally forgiving & trusting people to their detriment might also accept this emphasis on intent over impact – or *assume* & accept that someone didn’t intentionally mislead or mistreat them. For sure, *intentions matter up to a point* – so I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt but not the benefit of the clean sheet if their actions repeatedly don’t compliment their promises. Both on professional & personal fronts, after a point it isn’t good enough for me to accept justifications of this sort: “I haven’t intentionally deceived you. I didn’t mean to hurt you, I was just teasing. She didn’t miss the deadline on purpose. He didn’t plan to take credit for your work. They didn’t deliberately leave you out of the meeting”.
It makes sense to me to accept such justifications & continue the relationship if people stop repeating the (unintended) thing once I’ve said it doesn’t sit well with me. If they persist in doing the same thing, then it’s a cue for me to leave them to their own devices or to change my approach to them. In their eyes, the problem isn’t that they didn’t follow through or didn’t keep their word, the problem is that someone is disliking their flip-flapping & future-faking. EUs & assclowns pull a slow-fade & disappear – and then console themselves & others by saying that they haven’t intentionally misled or mistreated others. Their good intentions are good enough for them. If at all, they don’t stick around to acknowledge the impact of their behavior on others. Some might acknowledge disappointing or hurting someone but do nothing to rectify the situation because that isn’t on their agenda. Making a mess, feeling or feigning guilt, saying sorry, and escaping the situation is an easier option. Clinging to their good intentions, they move on. Rinse & repeat.
Reading your thoughtful comment, I remembered a well-wisher quoting something that left a strong impression on me: “we judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their actions”. In sharp contrast to this quote, I admire you for evaluating your own actions & breaking patterns that do you no good. Personally, after a while, I have no interest in assuming or believing that someone is doing something unintentionally or intentionally – consciously or unconsciously. I’ll leave that to their defence attorney or psychoanalyst. I’d rather focus on the impact of their behavior on me so that I can act on my behalf by asking: “what can I do to ensure this person doesn’t have a negative impact on me?” To be fair, if the tables are turned, I don’t mind someone choosing to focus on the impact of my behavior on them. Repeatedly, if I disappoint them, in spite of being informed that something isn’t sitting well with them, then it’s fair of them to judge me on the basis of what I do rather than intend. I can raise the bar for others only if I first raise it for myself. I’ve found that it becomes difficult for people to future-fake someone when she’s clear about her own goals. By staying committed to our plans, I think we’ll be less likely to accommodate non-committal people who future-fake & change goalposts to suit their own interests.
It’s great you’re choosing not to dine off his “good intentions” or “illusions”. This makes me so happy for you. I doubt Mr. Hopium is going to *change* his self-serving patterns. Instead, as a perpetual escapee from realities, he’s building castles in the air, dreaming of going on junkets, and leap-frogging into affairs. His castles, trips, and affairs don’t matter – what matters is that you’re no longer tripping on Hopium or getting high on the fantasy that he’ll be your “best friend”. He can’t future-fake you. Please don’t berate yourself for not matching your words & actions. Gradually, you can start matching them. I’m rooting for you & thank you for sharing your thoughts. It’s inspiring to know that someone is saying No to living off crumbs & good intentions.
Oh yeah. I got snowed by the worst sort of future faker. My marriage had just ended and it was to be all us us us forever and ever. Until of course my expectations for follow through on the promises came home to roost and suddenly he “needed his space.” But oh yeah – let me stay in your life and keep you hooked just enough to believe there might be something there when I’m all done messing around. Apparently, there’s nobody like me who knows him so well, we have such a “connection,” and he’s never loved anyone like me (yada yada). Thank you BR/Nat/and therapy I found my self worth and esteem enough to let him become someone else’s pile of wreckage
Your story is so very similar to mine. They really are all the same. And yes, thank you Nat and BR for setting us off down the right path.
BeenThere, how long has it been since you ended things with him?
Oh my goodness – is there some secret “script” that all these jerks read from?!? Those words sound so familiar . . . how about this one: “You’re the love of my life!”
Yeah, right.
Ah, well. Better to know now what a messed up faker they are.
Boy, talk about hitting the nail on the head and another aspect of an EUM that I hadn’t considered. They like how they look in your eyes…he had even said as much early on in the relationship. And the reason they seem so mind-numbingly oblivious to the pain they cause is because they only see those couple of moments where they made you happy. In his efforts to ‘reconnect’ (hell no) he’s always blabbering about the “good times” we had, and I’m thinking YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR DAMN MIND. He’s not, just in his own little screwed up egocentric world.
Wow. FedUp – you have just described my relationship with a very messed up, EU Future Faker down to the sampling of things he told you! It’s like a script of what I went through. He was married (yes – I KNOW better!) but his marriage (so he said) was horrible. His home life was drama on steroids with 3 stepdaughters, all of them lazy, uneducated, and mooching off he and his wife. The oldest has 2 children, no daddy, so he was the stabilizing force for the grandchildren. That was his excuse for not leaving. But he talked ALL. THE. TIME. about our future – being married, we even looked at houses, he helped me buy a car, etc . . . HUGE future faker. He finally moved out – WITH the deadbeat stepdaughter and two sweet grandchildren (cue the violins – how noble). But still never went through with the divorce – that is UNTIL – I left last June for a three week trip to Europe with my daughter . . . he proceeded to find a “friend” on Facebook with 2 young daughters, work his way into her life, begin caring for her children while she worked – all in three weeks, mind you. . . lied to me all last summer, never telling me he was in a relationship, just that he decided he wanted a baby of his own (he had no children, 48 years old.) I’m 52, so that’s out for me, already have three amazing kids – he said for the nearly 5 yrs of our relationshiip that he did not want children, it did not matter that we wouldn’t have our own. . . . Long story short – he slipped up and I found out on Facebook, no less, when his new “love of his life” – as he always proclaimed I was – threw up a very happy, cozy profile pic of them announcing they were in a relationship. All the while, he is still telling me how much he loves and respects me. Excuse me??? So, he’s known this new gal for about 5 weeks when they move in together, and lickety split – in another month, you guessed it – she’s pregnant! Still can’t quite wrap my head around that . . . wow. Due any day now. I could go on – but suffice it to say, the minute I saw that post – I cut off all contact (August 5, 2013). Very proud of myself for sticking to my instincts (this was before I knew about BR) and immediately blocking him from everything. I did see him 3 months ago to return ALL the things he ever gave me – and while I agonized over doing that, in the end, I’m glad I did. I was so strong! And he was a HOT MESS. Cried the entire time. Said he “hated himself” . . . blah, blah, blah. Loser! He seriously thought I would be his friend! Now I know that he only wanted to have me on the periphery of his life to stroke his ego, make him feel not so bad about the horrible way he treated me, and throw me the occasional crumb. Oh no, mister. He is SO unworthy of me! As all of these selfish, sick individuals are of those of us they stomp on. I do believe in Karma . . . I hear from mutual friends that this new relationship is not all sunshine and roses . . . they are “engaged” – oh yeah, he did that a couple weeks after she got pregnant, but still not married. Huh??? Feel kinda bad for the new chick. Anyway – it was eerie to read your story. It’s like these people are cut from the same template, you know?
Gentry,
I am so sorry that you’ve been through a situation like this. It sounds like you have made some major in-roads in your recovery and he is the same ole flaming POS he’s always been. Good for you!
I feel stronger every day and reading stories like this helps me remember that I will not always feel the way that I do.
One thing I struggle with is forgiving myself for making such a horrible mistake. I feel like this AC has stained me in some way. I know that is giving him too much power, but I’ve always struggled with guilt my whole life. I have this awful need to punish myself mentally for the mistakes I’ve made. Definitely something I’ve got to work on!
Best of luck to you and I look forward to reading more of your progress.
FedUp, you address the subject of forgiving oneself in another post also. I have the same issue. Carrying around guilt, self-blame, and criticizing myself for my mistakes. I don’t know your relation to faith, and I won’t bring up the subject here, but I can tell you that I have started finding self-forgiveness through my faith, which I discovered some time ago, but which started growing and becoming stronger since the painful, life changing experience that I went through with the ex prior to the breakup and the breakup itself. This blog, psychology, friends have helped a lot. What gives me true glimpses (and I hope I will progress) of self-forgiveness is my faith. I hope, if not faith, you will find your way forgiving yourself. We all make mistakes. As much as it hurts right now, it will all turn out for the better. I am still having good and bad days, and I read about people and their success stories on BR, and how they finally found themselves on the other side, I feel encouraged that the forgiveness will come eventually and letting go will happen. This won’t last forever. I am trying to remind myself to be patient with the healing process. There is no magic switch. There is no definite schedule. That I have learned in 4,5 months past breakup. And that it does get better. Please believe in it, as hard as it is right now, there will be more and more lighter days and you will see things with more and more clarity. One day we will be indifferent to them. And I know we will be. We all have exes to whom by now we are indifferent. This time will come. Hugs.
Wise words, Sofia. My faith, while always there, has grown immensely with this experience. I’ve done some major soul searching and found solace and peace in my faith. I’ve also become very purposeful in living each day in gratitude for all I have to be thankful for – three wonderful children, both parents still alive and healthy, an interesting job . . . it helps to acknowledge my blessings. Hang in there. I still struggle with the rejection, but I truly believe God was protecting me. If you are 4-5 months out, it gives you a nice clarity looking back – yeah, you still miss him, but you’ve made a TON of progress. Be proud of yourself. My therapist literally had me pat myself on the back – sounds cheesy, but hey – it works!
Thank you, Gentry. It seems it’s nothing – 4-5 months. At times it seems like it has been eternity. It seems like such a long long time. And yet, I look back it seems only yesterday we had that breakup conversation. Not cheesy at all. Thank you for your encouragement. I just shared it with my friend, actually:) I said, even though I had quite few drinks on the weekends, never, no matter how tipsy, did I break NC. So, see, alcohol or not involved, doesn’t matter. I have NC determination. I deserve a pat on the back. Thank you for reminding:) Feels so good! Best of luck to you.
Keep going! Just think how far you’ve come. At one year, yeah, I still hurt, but it’s not nearly as sharp. And the next 4-5 months will likely be a little easier. You’ve done a ton of hard work during the most painful time. I read something on a website (maybe this one!) that “silence is the loudest scream.” By saying nothing to them, they KNOW they have completely screwed up and lost you forever. My ex could not believe that I would just cut him off completely – found this out through mutual friends. It was very satisfying (yet one of the hardest things I’ve ever done.) It also sends a clear message to the exes that we have self respect and dignity and will not stoop to chasing them. Powerful message without having to say a word : > )
Gentry, thank you for these supportive words! Indeed, you are right, the first 4-5 months must be the hardest. I read somewhere the first 3 weeks and then 3 months are the hardest but then I am finding that the next couple too are not exactly easy. Yes, I do think that by a year I will feel way way better. Still remembering the hurt I am sure but not so profoundly. I can’t get why I am jealous of him imagining all kinds of scenarios of him being happy going out, making out, having sex, and even worse, being emotionally available for someone, giving her what he didn’t give me. It’s stupid and immature I know. I need to learn to discard these thoughts. Masochism. Nat has articles on the subject why her and not me. Need to revisit those. I don’t even know if he is dating but I am jealous anyway. So silly…
My ex told me let’s stay friends. I said not now. I can’t even think of it. Then, he said, let’s see in couple months. He contacted me two months after the breakup. By email. Seeing how I am doing and hope all is well. I was in shock for two hours but responded by email – yes broke NC, because he did. If I had gotten this email now, I would have not responded. But 2 months ago I was still very vulnerable. I told him I was fine and not ready to see him as a friend. Wished him the best. He didn’t respond and I made a mistake of clarifying a week later what he wanted by contacting me. He said he was just checking on me and he is there if I need anything. And he realizes that I need more time to heal. I didn’t say anything. I regret that I replied. Since then no contact. Although I had over 1000 temptations, trust me.
I agree not saying anything is the best. He might not even care, but it tells a man, if he is even half-way intelligent, that when there is no contact at all, it must mean that a person is really really hurt. Not indifferent obviously. But extremely hurt. I thought I would be ok by now, by summer. I even thought i could have casual sex with him (which I suggested at the breakup , crazy! I know), but now I can’t fathom any of it: being friends or having casual sex. I have way to go to heal and even then, I don’t know if I want to talk to him. Why SHOULD I EVEN HAVE TO? I am not obliged to talk to him. Yes, he might think later I am childish etc and a bitch, but who cares? He made his choice to not have me in his life. I made mine choice as well.
You bring up a good point. If these men are half-decent, like mine was , they have to realize that they hurt the other tremendously. If I were them, later or sooner I would ask for a meeting just to ask for forgiveness, to apologize. I don’t know how these people can go on with their lives. But they do.
Because they don’t think they did anything wrong. Not a single thing.
Thanks for the kind words, FedUp. After the first couple of months, I did realize I needed counseling. I could not eat or sleep due to feeling like I was such a loser for falling under his spell. I had so much guilt! I am normally such a strong, capable, sensible person – but my terrific counselor helped me realize I need to forgive myself, view this as a learning experience, and thank my lucky stars that I didn’t end up married to him. He would have left me and/or cheated on me sooner or later.
Please forgive yourself. It’s not our fault. Once I started viewing this as an opportunity to grow and be able to recognize these toxic people for what they are, the peace began to find my heart. I’m still not completely healed, and still feel foolish for putting up with his EU mess for so long (always giving him just ONE more chance!) – but I’m the winner here – as are you. We KNOW ourselves – they will never know themselves or what a true relationship entails.
Gentry, did counseling help you? I have considered it on and off. I am now into the depth of discovering my faith and spirituality and psychology doesn’t go with it very well. I mean, psychology is fine as the beginning of the healing but it doesn’t get you there, if you know what I mean. I see from your posts you are a believer. I won’t go into this subject here, but what I would like to ask is whether counseling is helping you. If it is , I might consider seeking help too. From what you are saying in this post, it seems like it’s helping your self-discovery. I feel that no matter how many books and help guides I read I am still not getting closer to the help I need. I talked to a friend of mine who studied psychology and she said, that the thing is that you can read a lot and it might help, but unless you see a professional, who can objectively put all the cards on the table and see you who you are and tell you that, what mistakes you are doing and not seeing yourself, you might not be helping yourself through JUST reading. Please let me know because I am considering therapy. Thank you.
FedUp – I think you should set up a few sessions, leave it open-ended as to how many you will need, and go from there. You can always cancel if it doesn’t seem to help. Especially if you have a job where it’s covered under your healthcare plan. I know we aren’t all that fortunate, but if it’s there, and just the cost of a co-pay, it’s certainly worth seeing if it’s beneficial. Yes, I have a strong faith, but I’m also very analytical and understanding why things happen and why he behaved this way has helped so much. My therapist can’t analyze him and the reasons for his behavior, but she can help me understand mine. When I found BR – it helped me analyze HIS craziness. So the two have worked together for me. I tried working through this alone (by reading everything I could) for about the first 3 months, but I just couldn’t reconcile WHY I had let myself fall under that man’s “spell” – it is so unlike me. In order to process and understand, I needed that objective sounding board. I’m a healthcare professional myself, but mental health isn’t my expertise.
I can’t tell you how much my therapist’s non-judgmental, open attitude helped me heal. She asked me what my goals were the first session – it forced me to think about what I want/need to move on – #1 – peace #2 forgiving myself #3 – understanding why I allowed this to happen (so that it never happens again). She could take all my ramblings, and focus them and reflect them back to me in a couple of sentences. For example – early on – I was so torn up because I was obsessively thinking of him, wondering what he and the new woman were doing, why, after he told me he had never had love like he had with me (hmmm), I just couldn’t stop the thoughts from circling and circling my brain – she nodded here head and said, “well, that’s completely normal, that’s the child-like curiousity in you coming out.” Boom. Even though I still obsessed (and still do occasionally – oh, he’s never far from my thoughts, I have to stay super-busy to forget him for any length of time) over the whole upsetting thing – just having that accepting, neutral statement really decompressed that feeling of helpless anxiety. There are many more examples. Anyway, I started out going every 2 weeks, starting a couple months ago, backed it off to once a month. I think a few more months will get me mostly whole. I really, really recommend it but understand it can be difficult financially without insurance. However, remember, it’s an investment in yourself – and you’re worth it. You sound like a very nice and thoughtful person with a lot to give to others, you’ve already made a lot of progress in a short time, this could help you heal more quickly, it definitely did help me. A couple of other things that helped me were to find websites like “Wisdom Quotes” and listening to music that soothes my heart and soul (not sad breakup songs!) – for me, if you are in the US – KLove radio is contemporary Christian music – it just calms me immediately, helps me remember that God’s love will never fail, and that He loves me no matter what. I think it takes a variety of measures to build ourselves back up after going through the trauma of being used and abused by these types of people. Even finding out that others are going through the same experience helps (while I would never wish it on anyone else!). This article is the first one I’ve ever commented on, so I’ve finally come out of my shell and how nice to find such helpful, kind people. Good luck, and hey – don’t beat yourself up if you don’t end up in counseling – we all get through tough times a little differently.
Gentry, I have a feeling you meant this post for me, Sofia, and not FedUp. Although all of us could derive help from this post! You explain very well and give a good advice. My insurance does cover few sessions I think. So maybe I could try. See, the thing is that since I started the spiritual path, in a way, it does cancel out the analytical and digging in yourself stuff. Because there is the ultimate end or rather the eternity that Christianity talks about, but I won’t go into this subject here. I am careful to not discuss theology on BR.
I am analytical like you are and have been circling and circling forever!!! And it just doesn’t help. That’s why I do too believe that an objective person, a professional can point out where you are stuck exactly so you can start working on your mess. I seem to understand everything. I read so much in the last 4-5 months and I get it. The childhood trauma, unavailable parents, lack of self-love, not knowing what love is, chasing for validation. Good, that is understood. What professionals can do though and we can’t is to push us gently to a certain point or resolution where we can finally move from the dead end of circling and circling. However, here is my question again: what is the fine line between circling and normal process of healing. So confusing. At 4-5 months perhaps I am ok (1-year relationship). But if circling goes beyond the length of what relationship lasted than it looks like being stuck. Although I am already feeling stuck but that’s perhaps I am a bit impatient and not compassionate to myself. We want a quick fix and gratification.
I agree that Christian reading and music are soothing and powerful. Choir in my Church fills me with so much peace and I leave energized and happy. It’s great to have faith and I don’t know how I could do without it and actually I should be thankful to my ex EUM , because of whom I started going to church. The experience was so hurtful. It brought me down to my knees, but it’s all for the better because I am discovering a new relationship with someone who loves me for who I am. Unconditionally.
I will certainly think of counseling, Gentry. It wouldn’t hurt. Just couple sessions. The problem is how you find a good therapist. Did you find yours quickly? And how? Reference?
I am in the US too by the way. I will check out the radio station.
Thank you for your input, Gentry. And I do see it’s possible to combine psychology with religion. For analytical people like you and me I guess that’s the way to go. To dig for the truth but come back to the church after our detailed truth is discovered:)
Sofia- sorry! Got my wires crossed and it was getting late last night . . . anyhow . . . I was referred through Personal Assistance Services at my workplace (most companies have a Human Resources dept. that can steer you to that). I do work at a large teaching hospital so that’s helpful – they gave me a list of 3 or 4 therapists and I googled them for references. I chose a woman, that’s just me, thinking I’d feel more comfortable. I don’t think I really turned the corner, having that raw pain subside somewhat, until about 9 months after the breakup – although that term doesn’t begin to encompass what happened – really, to put it bluntly, he dumped me, threw me away like a used Kleenex! He was so delusional to think I would ever, ever be his “friend” . . . Honestly, I think all these types of toxic people are unable to empathathize with others, they are empty shells inside and nothing will fill them up until they work through their issues. One of the things I’ve learned to be grateful for amidst all the pain and emotional distress, is that I can FEEL the pain and that I would never, ever treat another person so cruelly. Best of luck to you.
I completely understand – I still can’t believe I made such a horrible mistake and misjudgment of character. He had me so snowed! We have to be gentle with ourselves – we are only human – if you are like me, we tend to trust others too much. I had never even heard the terms Natalie uses – EU, Future Faker, etc .. . but reading her posts are like bolts of lightning as I realize the toxic personalities she describes. Look at it this way – now we know! And it won’t ever happen again!
gentryg9
At 48 he is going to be mowed down by the huge amount of stepping up he will have to do to become a father for the first time. It’s almost funny except he is now someone else’s pain in the arse creep. And she’s finding out exactly what he is made of. You have to feel sorry for his new victim.
What is it with these dudes? You turn your back for 5 minutes to go on holiday and there they are popping up on Fakebook with a new life? Unbelievable. They are still babies themselves and they are having them. Congrats to you for your almost whole year of NC. That is BR in action girl, reclaiming it all the way. I wish you well.
Thanks for your kind and funny words, Seamstress! Yes – he absolutely is someone else’s pain. I think he’s definitely bitten off more than he can chew. He doesn’t have the income to support his new “instant” family and I hear that his new love has not been able to work almost the entire pregnancy due to complications. So he’s had to go from supporting just himself to 3 more with another baby coming any day. It can’t be pretty.
It’s so ironic/sad – get this – the new gal has never been married but has 2 children from 2 different fathers. This baby makes the third from a different daddy and all born out of wedlock (not being prudish but for Pete’s sake!) That shouts to me EU on her part! Shaking my head and so glad I am healing from his horrible behavior and just feeling so betrayed. Apparently she won’t marry him until she “gets her figure back.” So who is this really all about – apparently her – and not the baby. I almost feel sorry for him. I’ve of course obsessed over how in the world I got involved with someone so clearly out of touch with respecting my feelings. He had me really fooled for almost five years. BR has been a lifesaver, helping me understand I was worth FAR more than that loser. Oh, and a huge benefit – I lost 50 pounds and am the same size I was in college – thought I’d never see that again : > ). Started out losing weight from heartache, and able to continue when I realized I was worth taking care of. Thanks again for the support.
Well I just realised Future Faking has been a constant in my life since I was a child because it runs in the family.
My grandfather (from my father´s side) was a known FF, he would make anyone the most grandiose promises and then never follow through. So no wonder my own father spoonfed me his own false promises. When I was in my 20s, about 20 years ago, I already knew not to believe anything he said. Like when I brought him a kitten I had found abandoned in the street so he´d take care of it (he promised he would) and he gave it away though I came over to his house every day just to see this kitten. When I was upset about it, he promised “I will have a cat of my own some day and you can help me choose one to adopt”. I think that´s when I realised he was full of shit. Of course, he hasn´t adopted any pet to this day.
The thing is, once you´re in a relationship with a future faker, as I inevitably am, it becomes difficult to discern which promises he will fulfill. Because it´s not all BS, just a large portion of it.
The other thing that worries me is that, even with this experience under my belt, I fell for the EUM´s FF, which was exactly like my father´s. He constantly manipulated me into feeling happy and hopeful that some day we´d have a proper relationship, but it never ever happened. He was just satisfied to see me happy for a while, until his words had died down and I was completely confused again. How do you go from the unhappy known to a happy unknown? I wouldn´t know what a honest, decent guy looks like if he bit me in the bum.
Whoa! This has been the story of my life. I loved FUTURE FAKING. It gave me hope when there was no hope. It put a log to stoke up a dying fire. I accepted it. I let it happen and I stand guilty as charged.
Just as I read that, I realize that I could have said, “Don’t say that. You actions will tell me what I need to know.” Wow! What a novel idea.
In the past, I would let the words roll around in my head for a while. Wanting it to be true, I would also compare their words with their track record and the two never seemed to jibe. However, instead of dismissing it as Future Faking, I put in a part of my mind of “probably not…. but maybe” which was a true waste of my time.
As always, thank you Natalie for a timely post.
my ex used to skate on the notion of “good intentions” regarding all of his short and long term promises and his fake out future plans that never came to be. After getting used to waiting for anything he said to actually happen and him rarely ever coming through I began to accept the idea that “at least his intentions were good” as fair enough reasoning when he would back out of things, change his mind, pull the rug out or just plain old not come through with little explanation. It happened ALL THE TIME, nothing was too big or too small to back out of.
With his “good intentions” in tow he would still hold claim to being a really great guy (he’s just really busy right now) or a”nice” guy because he really meant what he said and what he offered, he just couldn’t come through because of x, y, z and then some. The problem: it became a huge predictable pattern and issue for me and he would then take offense when I was upset, disappointed or just plain mad when his promises and offers didn’t come to fruition. Then… I started to point it out and remind him of what he said he was going to do, guess what? he did not like this one bit and had strong reactions to this perceived criticism. I also couldn’t take listening to or participating in any of his grand (and small) plans and promises anymore. I could no longer “get on board” and that caused problems because I ended up being the jerk in his eyes who was no longer impressed with him and his bs grandiosity and who he now wasn’t so sure if he could see a future with anymore!? He would tell me that he really needed me to “trust him” and be “patient”. Trust in what? Hell,by his reasoning I should have been grateful just for the mere fact that he was even willing to future fake with me, I mean really, why wasn’t that enough for me? and of course, I should have always been understanding as to why things he promised weren’t happening. This was extremely frustrating and went on throughout the entire relationship. It was insanity.
Oh and here’s the cherry on top: He was 100% capable and then some of making all of HIS plans and goals (which I supported and listened to endlessly) work out thereby showing me that he was in fact MORE than capable of delivering…but only when it was about him and meeting HIS own needs. People, I can’t believe I stayed with this person for 3 years, waiting for this amazing future to happen while the present was anything but. I’m finally able to see it for what it was (thanks BR!)and starting more and more to understand my attraction to, my willingness to stay with and my role in the whole charade and also starting to finally move on.
Unlike,
I could have written this myself (except for the three years part)! It is amazing how common this is. I’m sorry that you spent so much time with this AC but at least you have learned the lesson and your “picker” will be fine tuned in the future. Like Nat says, we will have to throw a little faith out there and then adjust our level of trust depending on the action (or lack thereof), but I doubt any of us will EVER spend a second longer than we have to with a FF again!
hugs!
Ditto – you just described my relationship with the the FF I tolerated for over 4 years! Rarely followed through on promises, constantly late, long gaps in communication (his grandchildren needed him, work needed him . . . ) I was always last on the list after everything else was taken care of. Geez, you think I’d get a clue. I’m a pretty intelligent woman with a Master’s Degree and a very demanding job. But he had all the lines, the puppy dog eyes, the alligator tears, he could really turn it on. Not only are they FF’s – they are faking themselves out, convincing themselves they are such noble people. They need people like us to stroke and prop up their egos and low self-esteem. All I can say is it’s far more peaceful without him than with him, and I don’t envy the chaos he’s created for himself now and the remainder of his life. Not fun at all what he’s manipulated with this new relationship. When this new baby comes, he’s gonna get a wakeup call the likes which he has never seen.
Can’t miss any of it and broke the NC thing numerous times, not sure even if I am doing NC? because I simply feel nothing and really do not want to hear from my old friend so it dont feel like NC anymore but just really don’t want him as anything or near me and not curious about him at all anymore, I have nothing to miss in so many ways and never was loved by any man. I do not think ever in reality, and now even that don’t bother me anymore, it’s just better to not have anything than to have something that turns into a pain in the @ss situation period.
Like, I almost feel guilty for simply not feeling so much BS anymore or something? just rather relaxed and that is even better than getting ecstatic to only be let down, not sure if I want the high of falling in live or lust ever again to be honest?, think I like being relaxed more.
Ohh this post makes me worried. I am going on my 4th date with this man that I really like tonight, and it seems that we are both pretty smitten but we are getting to know each other pretty fast.
He texts daily and calls as well. Just little things like “good morning I had a great time last night” etc but still, now after reading this I am suddenly getting nervous if we are in too much contact lol
He has been consistent with everything so far… No worries. He wanted to fit in one last date before he goes away for a ten day trip on international business. He made a big point of telling me that he normally does not travel this much but it’s a 5 day trip plus a vacation he had planned to go back East to visit family before we met. He wrote me this cute email stating that he just wanted to make sure that I knew that he knew that this was really bad timing, as we are just getting to know each other, and that he wants to touch base daily: would this be considered fast forwarding? It feels fine but it is hard to tell. We are pretty candid with each other and I think we both want a relationship so we have been pretty open with each other. Although with that said we have not slept together and I am still driving to meet him at dates because I am cautious like that…hmmm
Dancingqueen, I don’t think it’s fast forwarding. It’s being on the same page and communicating well what’s going on and why he will be gone for 10 days. You just started dating and then he will be gone. If I were him, I would explain that too. I don’t think you have to worry about anything. Everything is fine, from what I read. 🙂
I see what you mean about being nervous. I am nowhere close to dating, but I feel I will overanalyze now every step while before I ignored everything and only listened to my feelings.
Sounds to me like he wants to make it clear he’s very interested in you. Throw a little trust out there to this guy and pay very close to his actions upon his return.
I think it’s great that you haven’t slept together yet and are still driving to meet him. No reason to rush ANYTHING! If he’s truly interested he will not run, nor will he go over the top with declarations of love at this early stage.
“Touching base” daily while on vacation is NOT fast forwarding. It’s considerate. Maybe it’s a little email, maybe it’s a text, maybe it’s a call. Just a little something to show you that you’re on his mind and he isn’t vanishing on you.
Just pay attention after he returns but you’re going to have to throw a little trust out there at some point and see how he reacts. So far, it sounds good! Best of luck to you dear!!
hugs!
Been future-faked upon twice; once by a separated friend who always had plans for moving out, getting another place, having me join him. After seven years, as far as I know, he is still putting up with abuse from his not quite ex wife. The second instance was a guy from the other end of the continent who contacted me on line. Flew all the way over here to meet which I wasn’t too thrilled with, immediately wanted to marry me, talked about moving to the nearest city. His rship had broken up two years prior and he really wasn’t over it. He totally ignored the issue of our lives being totally incompatible (city dude vs woodswoman), was already dissing me for having “too full” of a life, was trying to get a friend of his, an academic, to give me a teaching job (doesn’t work that way, eh?) so I could move in with him, totally ignoring one again, the incompatibility in lifestyles. All this from a dude who hadn’t even slept with me (my choice) and had seen me a grand total of twice. Occasionally, some of the down and outers here behave as though they are applying for the job of “Noquays husband”, ignoring the fact that when ones life is a train wreck, you cannot be a good partner to anyone. Magical thinking doesn’t solve the problem, action and change does.
“Magical thinking doesn’t solve the problem, action and change does.”
I used to say something along these lines to the ex AC when he would whine (quite literally sometimes) about his “situation” and not being “able” to make a decision. I’m like, life doesn’t just HAPPEN to you. If you want something you have to take the steps to GO GET IT. Fucking fucktard. Excuse the language, I just still get so irritated with martyrs and whiny babies. Grow the hell up!
Noquay, sounds like you’ve had a couple run ins from some real winners. Kudos to you for living a “too full” life! Sounds like you were rather intimidating to a tiny man that couldn’t handle the fact that you wanted something different than him. Boo hoo. You’re the winner here girl!
hugs!
“when ones life is a train wreck, you cannot be a good partner to anyone. Magical thinking doesn’t solve the problem, action and change does.”
I can’t believe how brilliant you and others are on this forum. Thanks for all the insight. Just reading these stories and realizing I’m not the only one who has been abused by these types of poisonous people helps the healing.
Thanks Fedup and Sofia: you are both right…i need to put some trust out there! It is hard though: I feel like the fast forwarding guys always end up honing in on me because they like cautious women: the one who brought me to this site years ago was Mr Instarelationship until he was instaNONrelationship lol. He took me on a trip with his family and the spent the trip intentionally embarrassing me
So that I was forced to break up with him. It was such a set up! It also really scared me and made me afraid to trust when guys are so eager because it makes me worry that they are like him.
Gotta go to the gym and run off some of this anxiety: thanks:)
Dancingqueen, wow, about your exAC. Mr. Instarelationship. My ex was hiding me from his family in his country, but your story shows that even if they introduce you to their family, it still doesn’t mean anything, or in fact anticipates the end of it! How weird! Sometimes I just think that’s it, I can’t figure out anything or anyone anymore. People are just so odd. Or rather these ACs and EUs.
About the guy you are dating: yes, I forgot to add – that’s excellent that you haven’t slept with him yet. the longer you wait the better:) Not months of course, but maybe few dates more:) I used to always have sex on date 2 . Shame on me. Well actually I did have sex on date 2 with my ex-husband. Our marriage turned out to be fine and we separated for other reasons: grew apart, couldn’t reconcile our incompatibilities after 8 years of marriage. But it was a good person and a good marriage:)
If and when I date next time I am certainly waiting way more than two dates. More like 12-20 for me. If the person is really interested in you – they will wait. I am confident.
Good luck!
@Sofia,
Yes, the ACs and EUs are a special breed: what is even funnier is that they cross cultures! I lived in France for 2 years, and an American AC is really the same as a French AC: they still end up with the same playbook more or less imho.
So learning about this “possibility” of “relationship material” is globally enriching; it is kind of like learning that global language, what was it, Esparanto? It is investment in understanding other “cultures” of men lol.
Our 4th date went great, and we both volunteered some info and it was very natural. He confided that he is a little nervous and bummed out to leave me for 10 days because he knows that we are in a delicate time in our new relationship and we agreed to email, text, or call briefly daily. We also made plans for a special dinner when he gets back: I am going to make us a dinner because it will have been his bday while he is gone.
So feel pretty good today: no anxiety, just calm and comfortable:)
Dancingqueen, I dated international ACs and EUs, and yes, it’s across the board. They are all the same. No matter what nationality.
I really like your new guy:) His little nervousness. Wanting to reassure you of the contact while he is gone. It all sounds normal.
How did you meet, may I ask? I am just wondering how people meet people. I am determined a NO to websites. I don’t go out much at all and don’t think bars is a good place. I guess that leaves work or social events or finding new hobbies and groups to meet new people. Please share, if you feel like it.
And I like that you feel calm and confident. I feel that just reading your story about your date:)
Hey Dancingqueen and Sofia
DQ – I think this sounds really promising. Not future-faking at all. Just being a reliable, communicative, honest person.
I’ve actually met a similar-sounding guy! We met at a nightclub and have gone on a few dates. Initially I was a bit put-off by his ‘niceness’ (I still need to learn a lot from BR, clearly) but I am, at the same time, enjoying what you call ‘calm and comfortable’ early phase of dating.
He’s been overseas for the last ten days too at the soccer world cup. I’ve had emails from him during this time. Hullloooo anxiety-free dating. It is a revelation to me.
Perhaps that’s why the niceness does not have an addictive pull to it. I think in the past I would have been more involved/intrigued/attracted if there was the excitement of someone ’emotionally unavailable’. Someone I could ‘convince’ to love me.
Instead, I’m presently being treated with kindness, care and respect. Quite lovely.
Best wishes
Nel
Nel, I am happy for you. 🙂 Thank you for sharing.
Dancingqueen, I think thats a really interesting comment. Now why would the fast forwarding person want the cautious person? Because another ff person would just jump in with their ideas? (as in, if they say lets move in, the person would say ‘sure’ and then they’d be stuck in a level of commitment they dont want?).
Or is this a story of emotional unavailability on both sides just manifested differently? I dont know.
I think future faking and charm can go hand in hand. That’s what my ex used to manage down my expectations (I got high on words instead of happy on actual experiences).
It is so interesting though to delve into the possibilities as to why someone you’ve know for years is the way they are.
I recently had a conversation with an old friend from another town I used to live in. I always remembered her as ‘flaky’ but uber entertaining. And, yes, of course, charming.
She future fakes but I noticed I don’t even keep score because I stopped paying attention when she’d talk about “plans” along time ago.
Near the entire time on the phone she dominated with wit and charm. I was a passive listener. I was mildly entertained though she is an expert story teller.
And then I realized something.
She turns up the charm and giggly persona to account for a lack in reliability, authenticity, and genuine depth. But it’s not good enough.
When I wasn’t placating her humor, she suddenly had to go. Generally, goodbye would have been precluded with promises of meeting up and or more phone calls.
Neither of us played that game. Yes, it was tense for a bit, but hanging up the phone on an honest note felt amazing.
I don’t even feel like I lost a friend; I feel like I lost another dimension of superficiality.
Btw Nat,
Your sound cloud photo is superbly gorgeous!
“Charming” is now an amber or maybe even red flag for me now! Hate that word. Ex-AC is extremely charming and he knows it. He isn’t highly intelligent (obviously) but has honed his charm to get what he wants.
Yep, same here re: charm. Charisma and smooth moves are red flags for me, for sure. I don’t even find them attractive any more — it just feels weird and inauthentic.
I know that when I turn up my (dubious) charm, it is usually in the service of some sort of selfish agenda, or trying to manipulate a situation, rather than just letting the situation play out organically.
No more snake-charmers for me.
“I don’t even feel like I lost a friend; I feel like I lost another dimension of superficiality.”
Perfectly stated, and a really helpful way to view that type of friendship dynamics. Since I started flexing my boundary-setting muscle (courtesy of BR), I’ve noticed that I am much more attuned to what is really going on in my long-standing friendships. I’ve had to redraw some lines recently with certain charismatic friends to shift the dynamic to a more healthy, balanced, respectful one. Mostly it’s a mental shift for me — I choose not to engage in certain patterns any more — but in that process, I’m seeing certain friendships “get real”, which includes some of them falling away. I’m fine with that — it frees up more time and energy for new, healthy relationships.
And this:
“(I got high on words instead of happy on actual experiences).”
Wow, that sums up my past as a textbook Dreamer/Fantasy Relationship woman. Thank you for putting it so succinctly.
Yes! I’ve dated three future fakers, and they were all incredibly charming. Charming/funny is my achilies heel. I’m so attracted to it, but I know that it typically comes with all sorts of bad news.
Mr. U,
Dear God. Your story. I can relate though. I dated a man for 2.5 months and spent the following 2.5 years getting over him.
I went bananas and near lost everything. I am building myself up better. You will be too.
I have an ex from 25 years ago trying to future fake me now. I’ve gone NC after a one off phone call (& some subsequent emails) revealed he is not suitable as even platonic friend material. I’ve well & truely learned my lesson about ex’s. Ex’s are ex’s for a REASON!
I’m getting all sorts of guff trying to convince me to allow this person into my life; from inaccurate statements of what occurred way back when (I guess attempting to bait a rise out of me is as good attention as any?) to promises of undying love (funny this, HE left ME back then & never ‘loved’ me to start with, not in the way I had him. lol) & that he will ‘make me happy’.
I am four days off smoking (yay, this is a.deadly serious & hopefully, final attempt) & could not think of anything worse than opening my life to this guy. Things may have been different if he hadn’t taken off all those years ago, but since he did, his life (I now know) went terribly awry. Mine did not & went in the other direction; from strength to strength (a trend that’s now resumed after the expisode with my ex / now deceased AC that died).
I am not accepting this guys future faking (NC all the way here) but more importantly, I AM NO LONGER FUTURE FAKING MYSELF (caps just for Magnolia, lol). IT IS HIGHLY LIKELY I WILL DIE OF A SMOKING RELATED DISEASE IF I DON’T STOP SMOKING! So, I’ve STOPPED! This is my truth!
Luv to Nat (with thanks for this post!) & all the BR community.
Teach 😉
Teach, that is wonderful news about dropping the ciggies. The Future You will thank the present-day you. (No Future Faking needed!).
I agree that exes are best left in the past, in many cases. ESPECIALLY if they show a disregard for our happy, healthy boundaries, and keep poking us with a stick to see if we are open to reconnecting. We know what is best for us, and for them to presume that they know better than we do (i.e., repeatedly prodding us via email or Facebook, even after we’ve repeatedly ignored them)…well, that just shows they are not ready/willing/able to treat us with care, trust, and respect.
I had a guy continue to email me for 18 months after I ended things. He tried every ploy to provoke me: sentimental Xmas message; wistful remembrances of our times together (which I did not recall with the same rosy glow); his travails in the working world; and even an email to let me know he’d put down his dog because the poor beast was apparently too much for him to handle (yet another reason I’m glad I nixed him from my life).
What I don’t think he realized is that with each message, he only reaffirmed the type of person he is (one who lacks boundaries), and only reinforced my decision to bounce from that “relationship” back in the day.
Great post Nat! I have never really been a future faker to others that I can recall thus far. However I know when I future fake myself from time (ex. say I’m going to sew the hole in my glove when I get home)I actually get a good feeling just from saying I’m going to do it. I actually feel some sense of accomplishment in advance just from saying I’m going to do it. When it comes to myself I know that I will eventually get to it but it still is good to work on not over promising myself…with myself. lol. I say that to say that FF are the equivalent to those who run Ponzi schemes but except the extraction of the victims money being the goal (as it is with some future fakers as well), the goal with future faking is to also extract the power, respect, admiration, and adulation given to the future faker when he/she makes or hints to promises and plans they know ahead of time they are not going to deliver on. Either they are the type to keep their word or not …and they know which type they are. Its pilfering the person who is being future faked if you ask me. In my experience, men in general are on a never ending quest to PAT THEMSELVES on the back. With a future faker guy, its no different. When he tells a woman he/they are going to do something in the future, and they see her eyes light up, her smile, her telling him thank you, you are the best boyfriend/husband ever, and whatever else she chooses to give him because she is so thrilled about the prospect and possibility…. that man gets a opportunity to ‘big up’ and pat himself on the back in addition to the ‘good feeling’ that’s comes from a combination of him simply saying he was going to do it and the (in escrow) power respect admiration, company, sympathy, empathy, the thrill of watching a woman he know he don’t want to be with try to ‘get chose’ by him, and adulation he got from the person he said it to. The problem with these guys who are looking to ‘extract’ and pilfer these things from women is that once they get what they want, they feel like whether the woman was looking for him to actually follow through with that is her problem…he got what he wanted so you are on your own girlfriend. When I was in undergrad, i was dating this guy who wouldn’t follow through enough to the point when he said he was going to come by one night, I essentially offered the out for him, just so I wouldn’t be disappointed and I could go ahead and do something else. I specifically told him that he didn’t need to feel obligated to say he was coming by if a. didn’t want to and b. knew he wasn’t going to make it. He INSISTED that he was coming over even when I basically gave him and out..I was even trying to save my feelings from hearing any of his lame ass excuses so I made one up for him. My God. The night rolled on and he didn’t show. Looking back on that, it displayed how sadistic and narcissistic he and those like him are. He intentionally and deliberately set up a situation that A. gave him a chance to mistreat me for no reason, even when i offered him the out ahead of time. He didn’t want an out, he didn’t want me to go on about my business that night, he wanted A. to elicit an angry reaction in me so he could put me in the crazy/psycho woman category B. to elicit a reaction from me so he could have an excuse to disappear and/or to more sadistic things and C. He wanted to extract the feeling of power and ego feed that came from knowing that I was waiting for him or that he was because of HIM that this usually cool woman is so upset. Siiickkkkkk on top of sick on top of sick! See I know he saw me ‘trying’ doing what made sense, what supposed to work, working to keep things peaceful and afloat and running smoothly as that how I run my life. However there was no way that he could ‘feed’ from that, so he went out of his way to keep up confusion and instability, and unclarity. I had already set an exit date in my head months prior. My ‘if things don’t shape up, Im going to ship out’ date was April (1 year mark) and I graduated in May. My Lord, I couldn’t exit stage left quick enough!!! An you all should have saw the last ditch, his gravy train was a leaving performance he gave. He was offering my everything that I wanted while dating him, but he played dumb about at the time. That made my running for the hills that much easier because this guy knew all along what I wanted but intentionally withheld it. It was pretty cool to get into my power as a young woman. To realize he was an emperor who I knew had no clothes on, and to see that imaginary house of cards disappear in one day. I utilized my lady pimp hand. He had me on the run and with a blink of my eye, he was on the run. In all of that though, it taught me lessons that have saved my hide until this very day.
Also to the few ladies that feel guilty and self blaming about getting with these AC’s, I want to say that we as women are not responsible for what and who these guys are in the first place. When I hear a woman, including myself blaming self for having a heart and being human, it must say something. There are men/women/children in adult bodies who are bottomless pits, some are simply dark hearted and dark spirited. These guys in particular use the notion of friendship, like, love and relationship as a GUISE, ROUSE, and auspice, and ‘in’ if you will to pilfering what he wants. He knows those are buzz words that women like to hear while they are tricks of the trade for him. Women are like real life video games. Its can be easy to be mislead.
You sound incredibly self-assured and that is wonderful! I loved reading your story, as there are SO MANY similarities. I’m sure other people reading can relate as well.
God one of my broken record things I would say to him was, I just want you to do what you say you’re going to do! He just loves having options and that goes for EVERY area of his life. Fuck him.
Very inspiring to read how clear headed you’ve been about this. Congrats on your graduation and good riddance to that AC!
Ms. Fedup thank you! I am working on it like we all are. All of that took place years ago in undergrad. However, that schooled me pretty well. I’m and American black women by the way. If anything, guys of the past hip me to the game. As my mother and grand mother would always say ‘sense that you had to pay for are the best kind!” I read your story FedUp and you are like me and like every other woman around the world who is looking to have romantic love or keep it. I am in the mental/behavioral health field and let me tell you, you could put 10 Stephen Spielberg’s, 10 Stephen Kings, and 10 George Lucas’ in a room and they STILL would be able to come up with a being that is more twisted and mangled up than the ones we have already dated/married/had kids with. What I’m saying is that there are men who will use your HUMANITY AGAINST YOU. They literally use your capacity for kindness, empathy, patience, responsibility, forgiveness to his benefit and your ultimate detriment. He sees it in you and he plans on riding it until the wheels fall off! They especially love to hook their wagons onto go getter, make it happen no matter what, got it together, managing just fine on her own women as they know we like to own our situations, we are constantly striving for smoothness, peace, overcoming adversity, and cooperation in all areas in our lives. They know we will take the same attitude with our relationships. I can have experienced listening to some mans old sob story lol. The married man who owned the bar I used to patronize (in attempts of a shag) would complain about his wife. But I was like wait a minute lol, how are you sitting here badmouthing the way your wife is and you’ve been married to her for over 10 years… How do you talk that mess and then get in your truck at the end of the night choose and continue to choose to go right back to it and have been doing so for over 10 years…..SHUUUT UP! You dodged a bullet with that guy. Did you REALLY want to hitch your wagon to a man who handles his affairs like that!??
Ljsrmissy,
What you said from they want to use your humanity against you and everything after that is so spot on. In the process of doing alot of self reflection after the AC I dealt with I noticed a pattern w the men id been with and it is summed up by exactly that. On a now funny note though, when the AC and I started getting to know eachother better I, in hindsight, realize I gave him the blueprint to f$#& me over. I told him im very nice, I am loyal, been through alot, etc. Etc. It was like a fly to honey for a narcissist. I learned a lesson! Many actually. I went on a date w a guy a couple of weeks ago and he asked was I selfish. I am a really giving unselfish person, but ill be damned if im a fly to honey for him. I answered no more or less than the average person. I asked him if he was selfish. He said yes. I believed him! No more not taking peoples words for what they mean. Taking the time to unfold (us to them and them to us) really helps!
HappyAgain,
I chose not to engage they guy I used to date in college for that very reason. He is the type that always have something up his sleeve, and its never his arm! I simply cant with people who are constantly ‘trying to pull it’. They are everywhere like night of the living dead lol! And cudos to you believing him the FIRST time instead of practicing that selective hearing that we women do when we want a man around THAT BAD.
Ljsrmissy,
Lol, something up his sleeve and its never his arm! 🙂 You are right though they are everywhere. It’s hard to have to sift through the mess. I was upset about that for a while but I am at a place where I now just except I will have to. I hope all of us run into fewer of the living dead going forward. 🙂 And even better yet that we don’t allow ourselves to stay and be devoured by the living dead!
lysrmissy,
We must have dated the same fool? Because the ex AC did the same thing. When he saw me leaving, he all of sudden wanted a relationship when he acted like I didn’t exist most of the time I knew him. In addition, he left me for somebody else and then tried to play dumb later on. At the time, I really didn’t know about narcissistic personalities, but now when I look back he displayed many of those traits. Thank god I was able to take back my control and rid myself of that man.
Im glad you were able to do that as well Ms. Stephanie! I don’t think that us ladies realize that those personality disordered, dark spirited guys have no where near the same goal as we do when we get involved with them. I am telling you no lies when I have heard men refer to treating women like yoyo’s, and seeing women as video games that they are trying to beat. Guys like that are not out for someone, but rather something/bottomless pit called his ego and that is why they can latch on to the next woman without batting an eyelash.
Ljsrmissy,
Thanks for sharing your undergrad experience involving Mr. Absentee. If I were your friend or colleague I’d welcome opportunities to spend time with you because I’d come out laughing & learning something meaningful. Once again, your comments added gems to my thought-&-phrase bank: “riding the gravy train”, “pimp hand”, “hitch your wagon”, “treating a woman like a yo-yo or video game”, and “I’m too grown for this!” I gain a lot from the values & insights you communicate. Reading your thoughts is like drinking a fresh glass of orange juice. Energizing.
Miss Nigella,
I glad above and beyond glad that I can be that for you as you all are that for me. There is strength is support as we know that it isn’t something that is oh so wrong with us at a cellular and chromosomal level lol. If women are getting over ran by these types, like, EVERYWHERE, how can it be personal?
WE HAVE CONTACT! LOL. Well, not on my end. But AC had a mutual friend send me a Facebook message asking if I got a new driver (I play golf) and if I had a video of me practicing with it. WTF!!! I’m actually laughing. This is a good sign (the fact that I’m laughing about it).
Wonk, wonk, woooonkkk! Take the mini ego stroke/vindication, leave the AC. In light of this, here are some eye rolling gifs for your viewing pleasure.
Also Mr. U,
Remember to be very, very patient with yourself. I still cut my teeth on bad men.
lysrmissy,
You’re right. I see lots of folks in this & other communities take responsibility for BS by others that has nothing whatsoever to do with them. The ONLY responsibility genuinely attributable to the wounded party of a sitch involving a narcissist / anti social personality disordered person is that they were THERE ie they just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. LOL Sick folks run their play on all comers. The trick is to recognise the crazy ASAP & GET OUT.
Over reaching on taking responsibility for stuff that isn’t ours is, IMO, a form of self obsessed attention seeking. It allows people to spew on infinitum about their situation with all sorts of detailed ‘self analysis’ that’s irrelevent.
I would add that I agree that being an independent empowered woman in all aspects rocks! This sorts the wheat from the chaff re irresponsible men & affords us the freedom to say, ‘no thanks’ to those that are not up to par. I’m really starting to feel the benefits of this now. Ne’er do well types will not be pilfering anything from me (& I place this ex in that catagory, this being why my NC is so resolute) – I’ve worked FAR to hard for too long to be so careless!
Onwards n upwards to all that are ‘doing the work’. To the AC’s of this world… ~ insert deathly silence~ LOL
“IMO, a form of self obsessed attention seeking. It allows people to spew on infinitum about their situation with all sorts of detailed ‘self analysis’ that’s irrelevent.”
OOHHH you just told on me! I am an empath (some feel its neurotic). I am just now coming to realize that it is my greatest gift and for the longest time my greatest curse as well. I am now learning more about being empathic and how to temper those abilities. And I feel you on working too hard and much too long! What we like to say in the African American community is “I am too grown for this !!”
ijsrmissy- Excellent point you bring up about the power and control that is so important to these AC’s. I don’t think I’ll evet undetstand why the AC that I dated deceived me about his moving in a month. We went on a date (singular) with no relationship being offered. I knew that going in and he knew rhat I knew. I just wanted to enjoy myself that evening. I asked him if he was still planning on grad school and he said he was still thinking about it. This makes no sense as it was just a (singular) date.
Unfortunately, I lwt my hormones and negative headspace run the show that night but I said no to his follow-up attempted booty call. We haven’t seenor spoken since as, as mentioned, he left for grad school.in another state a month later. I don’t know…It still seems he may have planned to keep me around as a blowup doll until he moved. What other reason could there be for such adumb deception?
Rosie, without knowing your full situation, but from my experience with guys who lie for no reason, I find that with these types, they are wannabe godlike puppet masters…even over the dumbest, miniscule, copacetic things. As my therapist from years ago told me ‘everything is a joke and a game” to them. As I said, to them, women are video games that they just cant help but to try to ‘beat’. They get off on the feeling that they are beating you out of something or somehow concealing/privy to something that you are not. They will make a game out of ANYTHING as you saw. They are CONSTANTLY looking for opportunities to use their subterfuge and machinations…never mind its completely unnecessary, they do it because it ‘feeds’ them and their sense of being wannabe gods and puppet masters. Like when I mentioned they guy I used to date. How he purposely stood me up when I told him more than once that he didn’t have to come by that night.. I wanted things to be clear, honest, and copacetic.. He didn’t. He couldn’t turn down an opportunity to let me down and therefor score/feed in his own twisted mind. They will use any situation, person, place or thing to ‘score’ and ‘feed’.
oh I had to reply to this ljsrmissy!
‘They are CONSTANTLY looking for opportunities to use their subterfuge and machinations…never mind its completely unnecessary, they do it because it ‘feeds’ them and their sense of being wannabe gods and puppet masters.’
The AC I’m thinking of recently married (no, didn’t tell me, 5 days before that we had chatted, he tried to proposition me, but anyway…) the whole ‘secret wedding’ with parents invited, well, turned out the that the siblings were coming and at the airport ! Surprise !! I don’t know about you ladies, but I would not want surprises on my wedding day. I would feel quite shaken and undermined and exactly like I was being manipulated into socialising with people I hadn’t prepared for (in context obviously). It sickens me that I had been so honest and yes, I gave him my blueprint. He undermined my marriage vows with no intention or concept of responsibility.
The really weird thing is that my best friend is/was an AC too and she ‘supported me without judging me’. Yeah right. She seethes in envy and score keeping. NC both of them forever.
Miss Nic,
“It sickens me that I had been so honest and yes, I gave him my blueprint. ”
That must suck even saying something like that. I’ve had to learn not to tell too much of your business to a man. Even if you are not interested romantically, they still will use it as the ‘answer key/sheet’. However, men who do that are predators/exploiters, not suitable mates. You don’t want to hitch your wagon to that no way. In terms of letting go of your buddy, do what you gotta do lady. Every and I mean every women deserves, love, progress, peace, happiness, success, and joy. Drop those who obstruct and undermine your quest for these like a hot pot!
Hi, Rosie. I think his deception was all about “detachment”. In his head he cast you in the role of ‘not being important enough to rate an honest exchange’. ACs and EUMs often lie about little things, unimportant things. It’s as if they decide ‘you mean nothing and I will give nothing’, not even truth about inconsequential things.
What I find sick about these types is that what the rest of us HUMAN human beings give to others (BASIC human dignity and humane treatment), just out of human being to human being respect, these types feel like a woman has to ‘earn’ her right to be treated HUMANELY by him. These guys are so obsessed with being godlike, they want to have a sense of control (as false as it is) so bad, that they will use ANYTHING, even basic HUMANE treatment of others/women as a tool/weapon.
Rosie,
In his mind: If he had told you he was leaving, it was less likely you’d sleep with him. He deceived you on purpose. He lied to get laid. Pure and simple. And really selfish.
Dumped me for another woman that did not last – told me she drank, had a personality disorder, abused him and betrayed his trust. I was in a vulnerable place and kept in touch with him. He wanted to start afresh and move to another country together – we met up for a week together which ended badly with him abusing and humiliating me for no reason. Was completely distressed and broken – no communication from him for 3 months and I resigned from my job. Called him and met up again but it was really just sex. Then wanted to meet up again before he left to go abroad – said we would spend a week together, a lie as he arranged appointments with other people. Played at being a loving partner for a few days then turned around and said that I was not long term partner material – more a “helpful friend”. Said he would email me from now on as very busy. Also alluded to sleeping with other women in the future. I was ashamed and angry at myself for letting him abuse me again. Said he would see me again before he left and he was asking me how long it would take for me to travel and see him. I received an email two days later asking how I was feeling. I called him and he did not want to talk long as his conscience was telling him not to encourage me. He said he would call me before he went – never did. Has been gone two weeks now and nothing – he has cut me off completely. I feel angry, sad, and fretful that he is gone forever. I will keep working on myself and hope that I will reach the day when he is a distant memory.
Meerkat, how long have you been together, may I ask? If this can be called “together”, but still… He sounds like a douchebag. Selfish, indecisive, immature. Abusive. Liar. From the story you wrote, definite AC and EU. Both.
You dodged the bullet. Seems like a dangerous guy. The type who can screw with your heart for years if you let them. Good riddance.
I know it is “easy” to say all that ” good riddance and dodged the bullet.” I know you have feelings for him even though he sucks, and it is so tough. All I can say is that NC and hoping that time will heal. I come here it helps. I go to church it helps. Come back here. Keep busy. I have a child. I have a job. Being busy though doesn’t prevent the thoughts. So I know it’s time. Time will heal you. You will find lots of support here. We are all here for you. Write, talk, vent, and when you want to break NC post here too, anything, there are people here who will help. You are not alone. Hugs.
hi Sofia – thank you so much for your support. In three and a half years we were physically together for around 4 months – the rest of the time it was emails, sms, viber skype etc as we worked in separate cities then separate countries. He is in his late 60’s and is a clinical psychologist so very good at crazy making behaviour. He has screwed with my heart and mind for a long time and it broke me. I am now taking a few months off and will do some road trips (have just returned from one). I don’t have a job or kids but have family and friends who love and accept me as I am. It did not matter what I did for him there was always a problem in his eyes. You are correct -time is a great healer and I will have my weak moments but he is gone and I need to survive. I should count my blessings – the person before me was on and off for 15 years. I now need to find myself again as I compromised my values, lied to my friends and devalued myself for this “man”. I became very resentful and lonely and blamed myself when he turned on me. I will keep reading BR and posting when I have moments of weakness and it all gets too much. Thank you again.
Clinical psychologist – I guess he knows how to push your buttons. From what I can tell this is and will be good for you that it’s over. It doesn’t sound healthy at all. I know he is on the pedestal for you right now, but he will come off soon enough. I am glad you have your friends and family who love you. Good you can take time off and travel. The guy sounds AC very much. And a smart one. Shows that the age doesn’t mean anything. 3,5 years is a long time but 4 months physically together – that means it was mainly a long distance relationship. Those are always hard. From my healing experience only time really helps to numb the pain. To heal it rather I should say. It is a painful and inevitable process. Be with your friends and family as much as you can. Read and post here. Go to a counselor if you can. Know you are not alone. Stick to this community. We are all in pain and support each other, but we know we will get better. Time forgives and heals.
Yes, he has slipped off the pedestal now as I am so disillusioned. Yes, he is very smart – got me to open up to him and used it against me. It was a distance relationship but not by my choice – job, family illness were factors but essentially he future faked and when I moved to be with him he did not want me around long term – said I “hovered”. Very hurtful stuff but this was how he worked. I also knew what he told me re the OW were lies. He was firm in his belief that he had never been nasty or cruel to me and that if I had felt that he had, not to meet up with him. He also felt I had a love/hate thing with him and told me he was not special…who knows he may also read this site. I need to find the person I was before I met him and reconnect with a quieter drama free existence.
ljrmissy so much of what you said has hit me like an educational ton of bricks but the most enlightening statement was:the thrill of watching a woman he know he don’t want to be with try to ‘get chose’ by him. Often I hear two thoughts running through my head as I read everyone’s emails “wow those were the exact same things, ways, etc. mine treated me” and “well it seems a bit harsh to think they reallllly did this stuff on purpose and to label someone” the first statement tells me I am attracting my level of self worth right on course and the second statement tells me I have a loooong ways to go and get healthy inside. I’m too trusting, too it’s all about YOU and too “your needs are so much more important than my needs”… wow thank you all and thank God for this website!!
Ms. Rosecoloredglasses, I think that we don’t ‘attract’ who we are. However, who we CHOOSE TO KEEP AROUND says something about us! If you are a halfway decent looking woman, you will ‘attract’ all kinds of men.
In regards to “well it seems a bit harsh to think they reallllly did this stuff on purpose”. Check this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1FOpilKmEE poem out and tell me what you think. Straight from a man’s mouth.
ljsrmissy, your comments are very insightful, who I attract certainly does not equal worth, the people I keep around do. Doesn’t the saying go that you are a sum of your five closest relationships ?
Miss Nic,
Not to split hairs..but to split hairs lol. The only thing that determines our worth is US! Or friendships, our close friendships do indeed say something about us, but not everything as our friends are their own beings. and their beings are not our beings.
Well, I need help. I have been involved for twelve years with a man who I believed was my soul mate. I met him while he was caring for his ill wife, and when she died, we became a couple. Yes, I worried that he had not had time to grieve, but I let him rush me along. He needed sex, and it was fantastic to feel so loved.
I suggested that he take his time and thought I was helping him through his grief. He claimed I was his rock and his anchor. He told his daughters that we were ‘friends’. Our relationship was kept a secret and I have spent all major family holidays alone, while he spent those times with his daughters and grandchldren. Funny, I didn’t mind. I thought it was just the way it was going to be.
He treated me well enough, I guess. But about six weeks ago, he began to act odd and I thought he might be ill. No such luck. He has met a younger woman, he’s loaned her money so she could finance her new car, he’s had her sleep over once (although he assured me “we didn’t have sex”.) I actually caught them, because he told me to come over in the morning before I went to work. I believe he set me up for that, although he claims not.
I guess he’s a huge faker – I thought we’d be married – he was happy for some reason coasting with me.
I don’t know what to do to get over this. We work at the same building, so I see him daily. I feel pretty awful about everything, and I don’t know what to do about my feelings of shame, remorse, humiliation, and I know this sounds sick, but my love for him.
Sorry for going on, but I think there are some wise people who can voice for me something positive about this?
Oh, Jackie. I know your pain. Going into the bathroom to cry. Drifting into sad thoughts while working. Filling pain and angst when hearing his voice in the hallway.
Girl, the best revenge is to act like he does not matter. In this case, faking is the path to healing.
Change routines enough to avoid running in to him if you can. If he tries the “remain friends” tactic, just tell him “I’m trying to get my heart and mind into another guy right now, so can you do me a favor, be my friend and give me space.”
Nothing hurts men like this more than thinking it was too easy for you to get over them.
He will try to make you part of the harem.
Now, for the internal work….ask yourself why you were so OK about accepting so little. Are you EU – emotionally unavailable – yourself? Did you grow up thinking all the good things in life were meant for other people, but not you? You got work to do girl.
Thanks Elgie R. I appreciate your advice, especially changing my routines to avoid him. I know he’ll seek me out, because he thinks he has to ‘take care’ of people at work. I’m sure I’ll hear the ‘let’s be friends’ line too, because that his how he always described me to his family and our colleagues. Ain’t I just always the good sport!
Thanks, too, for acknowledging that I have work with my own issues. I’ve ordered the e-book on Obsession from this site, and have downloaded the other resources, so I’m starting.
I’m a mess and I suspect he’s not the only one to blame.
Jackie,
Check out the book “Women Who Love Too Much” by Robin Norwood. I’m reading it now and it’s amazing. So eye opening yet so painful to read sometimes. I say painful because I am forced to really look inside myself honestly.
When I am having my “high” moments, I think that I am grateful for this horrific experience with the AC because it was like hitting rock bottom emotionally and now I’m doing the work on myself that I MUST do in order to find a healthy, loving relationship. I’ve always associated love with pain, and unless I disconnect the two I will continue to repeat the same pattern.
This person is NOT your friend. A friend would never, ever treat you so horribly. Stay away from him at all costs. You may not see it right now, but you’ve dodged a huge bullet.
hugs!
jackie – I am so sorry you’re going through this! Twelve years of your time and energy invested on someone who ended up mistreating you so badly is gut-wrenching. I “only” wasted 4 1/2 years on my FF/UE/toxic crapload of a lying idiot and that was excruciating enough (yeah – I’m still MAD after a year! But well on the road to healing.) The story is SO familiar – “I need you. You are my everything, you are my ROCK. I adore you. You make my life worth living. . . ” and on and on. Yet, no – I can’t leave my horrible marriage – I have to be there for my grandchildren . . .whatever excuse fits the situation. So we get crumbs for years. Then, boom! All of a sudden, they are ready to commit – to SOMEONE ELSE! What the $%@#? Just proves how crazy they are. Yes, mine found a younger woman too – but not that much younger. It was just an ego stroke for him to get her pregnant – dear Lord – she’s 44, almost 45 yrs old and he’s 48! The mother of his child, due any day, allowed him to care for her 2 young daughters for 14 hrs/day while she was working after having known him for (I’m guessing) 2 weeks. What??? And moved in with him and was pregnant within TWELVE WEEKS. What kind of person would act so impulsively with young children?? Not a very stable one, right? She didn’t even know him . . . and to trust him with her children. . . All his friends and work colleagues are appalled. He loves to portray this upstanding, Christian persona but he just looks like a damn fool now. I’m thinking your ex looks equally foolish at work. By keeping your head high, acting with dignity, and never giving him the time of day, you will build your inner self back up and fall in love with yourself again. That’s truly the most important relationship, isn’t it? We can’t truly love others until we love ourselves. ANd I know I didn’t really love myself knowing that I was being taken advantage of.
The new (I call it rebound) relationship is off the charts ridiculous, and of course, will not last. Those poor children… I would also guess that your ex’s new relationship can be categorized as rebound. You see, we’ve left a deep hole (which these types of people have always had and cannot be filled because they don’t know how to authentically create relationships) – and these jerks will work frantically and desperately to create a new relationship as fast as possible to bring it up to the level of the previous one. It made perfect sense when I read about rebounds – he tried to get to FOUR years (us) in four WEEKS – with the new person. But it’s an impossible task. I estimate my ex’s new relationship to last 5 yrs max, before she leaves him . . . mutual friends have already hinted that they would be done already if not for the baby . . . hmmm . . .
It’s so, so hard right now – but be grateful that you are OUT from his poisonous control and you can focus on yourself. Counselling is very helpful. It’s helped me understand why I got involved with someone so toxic (although he’s a master at disguising it with his charm, his humor, his overwhelming attention and flattery) so that I can prevent it from happening again and forgive myself. Good luck. This site it a mental health lifesaver!
Miss Jackie,
Are you in counseling/therapy? From what I’m hearing, the positive part is that he has let you go (by having you accidentally-on purpose see his new woman)and now you can deal with YOUR STUFF. Feeling how you feel is pretty much par for the course and Miss Nat, counseling, and BR nation will help you as much as you want to be helped. Nat has many many great reads. I would suggest looking up ‘Florence Nightingale’ in the search box for a start. In regards to your situation, we could go on and on about how ‘wrong’ he is/was for all that he has said/done but I don’t think that will be fully helpful or true. After 12 years you were pretty much a co-conspirator in your own unhappiness. The thing is when you meet a ‘down and out’, got pressing emotional/financial ‘situations’, in distress, broke winged, wounded, ‘injured’ man is that they are usually but a mere shell of themselves and they will hook their wagon onto a woman because they are a distraction/comforting. That woman is not necessarily who they would go for if they were in a ‘better place’ in their lives. This BR article is great: “Why Rebound Relationships & ‘Florencing’ Are Like Hospital Stays Or Retreats For The Emotionally Wounded”
Jackie, you asked for help finding something positive in your situation. Here is what I would say if you were sitting on my couch, drinking tea with me, as a friend:
There is nothing to be ashamed of. Just like the rest of us, you are a human who wants to love and be loved; that is a healthy, lovely, natural thing to want. You gave love and support to that man, in good faith; that he ultimately wasn’t able to reciprocate isn’t a mark of you being unlovable or unworthy. He simply wasn’t the right man for you.
Him stepping out of the picture has cleared the way for you to find someone who IS right for you. After you move through this grieving process, you can look forward to a fresh start. You’ll be wiser for having gone through this last relationship, and can take the lessons you learned into your next one.
Nat has written of her Epiphany Relationship — the super-painful experience that led her to really sit down and think through her values, and how she wanted her life to be going forward. It was a catalyst for change for her. It is my belief that this last relationship of yours could be your turning-point one…what do you think?
There is nothing shameful in having loved and lost. It’s an experience that just about everyone can relate to — you are in good company with people everywhere, around the world, over the millenia. I know that doesn’t make it hurt less, and it doesn’t excuse that guy’s behavior, but just keep that in mind if you are feeling ashamed or flawed.
Big hugs to you, Jackie. Stay close to BR…it will be a comfort.
I’m really glad I found this site. Missy, yes, I realize that I’m as much to ‘blame’ for things in my relationship. I cannot fathom why I allowed myself to believe for so long that we’d ‘find a way’. He was too broken or so I thought, and I kept waiting for him to ‘show up’ and let me know he was ready for all I had to offer. Thank you for directing me to readings on this site that will help.
Victoria, thank you for your affirmation. I needed your words today. I’m not stupid and I loved him well. You’re right. He’s not the man for me. I just need to get that thought into my head and into my heart. And begin to live for myself. I need to work on myself, because he’s flying high now – in part, thanks to me!
I feel fortunate that you’re all here. Thank you!
No, Jackie, like the rest of us, you are not stupid – you are a woman who gave your love freely. It is his loss! People like him, and all the other EUs/FFs, are emotional wastelands. Unable to truly love anyone but themselves. I pity them. We’re the ones that will come out on the other side stronger, happier, and in a far better place.
This is an amazing community of support. I appreciate all the advice, tips, book and article suggestions and most of all, the kindness you show me. I have felt pretty low during all of this, but each of you have really helped me glimpse a bit off light at the end of the tunnel. I haven’t had any contact with him this week, so far, at work – although I know he’s been ‘around’ hoping to catch me. But today, I feel stronger and ready for the opportunity to ‘let it all go’. I hope I’m successful, but I’m also on my guard, because he knows me very well, and knows how vulnerable I can feel around him. I refuse to let him exploit this part of my personality and I am determined not to appear needy – he just loves that!
Again, I’m happy to have found this site and this no nonsense approach. It’s going to be difficult to navigate. Today, I feel as though I can do it. And more, I want to do it.
Fedup,
I dealt with a man almost EXACTLY like the one you did including some of the things he said. It left me torn down and messed up emotionally. I’ve been NC for 7 months but before that I had mostly left him alone early last year. He will show up again believe me!! Probably many many times even if you tell him to stay away. I had never dealt w someone like this before so I thought that was it. Nope he still shows up to this day!! Its weird. The relationship I had w him came at a huge cost of myself. I finally don’t care when he shows up because I know it doesn’t mean anything more than he wants to tell me things he thinks I want to hear for an ego stroke for himself. He doesn’t care about me. I just don’t answer my door. Keep up NC and one day you may still be hurt by what you went through but you will have learned from it and feel “meh” about him. I wish you all the best! Hang in there!
HappyAgain,
Thank you for the reassurance. Since I’ve only been NC for a couple of weeks (I didn’t respond to his attempt to contact me through a mutual friend), it still feels so raw emotionally. I don’t even feel sad…I feel pathetic, stupid, used, and like a total freaking idiot that I allowed someone I thought I knew to play me like a fiddle. I did used to believe that I was special to him but now I realize that NO ONE is special to him…not even himself. He’s a sad, sorry man and I guess the one thing I can be thankful for is that I’m not his wife.
I will keep with NC until I reach the point where you are. Then it will no longer be “NC” as Nat says but just me living my life without him in it.
hugs!
I understand your feelings. It is a process. I feel meh about him but since he still shows up sometimes I get angry because why won’t he leave me alone. I used to get alot of anxiety ofter he would show up. You will be ok, hang in there, be encouraged and whenever you want to beat yourself up or get down on yourself talk to you like you would a friend. It will help. 🙂
Fedup,
I’m going to be blunt & serious b.c this is your life you’re talking about & yr physical, mental & financial health are on the line /in play. These things are NOT to be trifled with!
This guy WILL TOTALLY DESTROY YOU if slip back into any sort of involvement with him. His lack of remorse & empathy (shown by failure to cease infidelity & to own up to the person that matters MOST ie this WIFE) & as well as his level of dishonesty are all absolutely chilling. What you describe is a pathological narrcissistic personality type which was shared by my ex (now deceased) AC who died (mercifully I finally got rid of him once for all before he died).
You did not share an intimate working relationship with this guy because at that time you didn’t know who he really was. Now you know. Stay NC come hell or high water & keep acting accordingly in your own best interests NOW.
Do not take anything about this guy lightly. You are in real danger in terms of the terrible risk he presents to your future. It is your job here to PROTECT YOURSELF. Tune in & remain vigilent.
Teach 😉
Teach,
Thank you for your direct and blunt words of wisdom. Believe me, I will heed them. I am finally seeing things more clearly and letting go of who I thought he was and who he really is. I still can’t believe he asked me if I’d be willing to lie for him if our mutual acquaintance blew the whistle on his cheating. I can’t believe he would put me in the line of fire like that. And that he would ask me to help him save his marriage. When I said that to him he said he didn’t give a fuck about his wife’s feelings and that everything he was doing was to protect his daughter from finding out the truth about her father. Jesus. So many issues. As my very good friend says, “he is truly off the rails”.
His life is a house of cards that will probably come crashing down around him at some point. Thankfully, I will not be in the middle of it to see it. He did so much damage to me in such a short amount of time. It’s amazing really, and not in a good way.
You are right that I did not know him previously. I’m still reconciling the real him from the version that he presented for 2 years. It’s amazing how people can live a double life. I even said that to him one time…how the hell can you have lived a double life for so long (in reference to cheating on his wife for their entire marriage)? Are you even ready for this response?! He says, well if you add it all up it’s only been for about 25% of the marriage.
……
Let that sink in. This psycho has justified the unjustifiable to himself. I said, so just because some years went by where you weren’t cheating that somehow makes this ok?! What a freak!!!!!!!
NC all the way!!!
hugs!
Very wise advice Teachable! I think one of my biggest challenges was realizing that my ex was EU/Narcisisstic, etc . . . because I thought he was so “nice” as did everyone else he works with . . . It’s just tough to conclude that they can so thoroughly fool everyone.
You are spot on Victoria. It’s only been a few emails but I’m horrified by ‘what part of NO don’t you understand!’
Now that I’m NC (& ignoring the barbs even – he knows he’s distorting history & if he doesn’t he must be mentally ill in some way, which is only all the MORE reason for me to stay well away) I’m hoping no further messages will come.
Unfortunately he has my home phone number (idiot me gave this out w.out thinking anything of it at the outset. Valuable lesson learned there!) I didn’t change the number but can if I need to. He called a month or so back. I just refused to confirm it was me answering & said, sorry, wrong number then hung up!
He’s currently IN A DEFACTO R/SHIP interstate. Apparently not happy. Tells me he wants to move to be with me & basically rock my world. Just one problem. I wouldn’t go near him with a barge pole. Very damaged man but seems to be pottering along ok. Whatever. Just so long as he STAYS AWAY I’m happy! 😀
Teachable,
What you said to Fedup is exactly right! Ive been there and it took such a toll on me people were very concerned about me and thought I might “do something”. I never said I would but they said they had never seen me so down or depressed. Narcissistic people almost seem to have a game to destroy you and get pleasure from breaking you down.
Fedup,
I hope you really can spare yourself the emotional destruction this man will bring on you. He sounds exactly like my ex.
I’ve experienced future faking mostly in the early stages of dating, when I’m getting to know the guy and figuring out if we have a connection. Some guys will state explicitly, and without provocation, that they want to “hang out again soon” and even narrow it down to specific days or activities. Then those days come and go, and there’s radio silence from the guy.
I’ve even had guys say, “I really want to see (current movie). We should go together.” And then I’ll follow up on it (without being pushy) and they act like they have no interest. It’s not as if my behavior in the interim has turned them off because I typically don’t contact them in the interim.
The first few times this happened, I was perplexed. I chalked it up to forgetfulness, flakiness, or maybe he was just busy. But after experiencing it with three different guys, I learned that it was something more. It feels pathological now, and not at all random.
This site has been so helpful to me in understanding future faking. I’m so grateful, because as you all know, this behavior can be crazy-making when you don’t understand it. And while I’m beginning to understand future faking intellectually, I still can’t fully comprehend it.
I understand that you want to make somebody feel good or to be polite in the moment, and I’m sure that i do this too to an extent. But future fakers take it father, and the consequences are greater. It seems so selfish and totally unnecessary. Maybe I just don’t want to believe that someone I shared a great date with could turn around and be so careless.
This behavior has caused me pain, but I”m also fascinated by it. It’s so strange to me. I wish I could fully wrap my head around it. I would love to sit down with one of these guys and make him explain to me exactly how it works (if he’s even aware of it). i also wonder, do they do it in other areas of their lives, e.g. work? family?
Sally – from what I am learning (dating for the first time in my 40s) like the movie example.. don’t follow up on it. Men like the “chase” and that takes the wind out of the sails. Also, if they say they narrow down when they are going to see you next and don’t follow up and make it happen, I would consider it best that it didn’t happen personally. If they have half hearted interest or don’t keep their verbal commitments when they make them – not sure it is truly a loss. Know what I mean? It’s nothing about you my dear, I think there is just a very big part of courting that involves them liking finding you a little bit hard to get your full attention… like they are competing for your attention… a bit of a challenge but not playing games. Also, I keep seeing this and hearing this IF A MAN IS TRULY INTERESTED HE WILL BE VERY OBVIOUS ABOUT HIS INTEREST. You won’t have to wonder he will be pursuing you because he is very interested in you. Man this has been such a learning experience for me for the past 5 years that I have been dating since my husband died. I feel like I am learning more in this last year than the 4 before or maybe I am just finally starting to get it now… I have learn so very much (and still am) from this site too wow I had no idea about AC EUM Narc and all the rest. Good luck to you!!
Thanks! This is wonderful advice. I’ve been doing the Evan Marc Katz ‘mirroring’ technique for a few months now. It’s so true – when you don’t follow up on a guy’s vague ‘plans’, their true intentions reveal themselves rather quickly.
And you’re right that a truly interested man will make it quite obvious. My own little mantra for myself is, “If I’m analyzing his behavior every day, or asking my friends what his behavior could mean, then he’s not a keeper.” The reason of course, is that if he’s truly interested, I won’t need to analyze his behavior, because it will be very clear. I’ve dated guys who are genuinely interested and this is absolutely the case. They don’t take any chances by giving mixed signals.
I’m sorry to hear about your loss. I’ve been single for about the same amount of time that you have, and YES – what a learning experience it has been. It sounds like the last year has really changed the way you look at dating.
Don’t worry TOO much about the narcs. Although they are destructive, they are pretty easy to spot. I.e. they tend to follow a predictable pattern, so if you are armed with the right knowledge, you can avoid them.
Thanks again, and good luck!
Natalie, I have just come back to this site to thank you for the help I got from it a couple of years back.
The Dead Weight (future faker, commitmentphobe, etc) and I finally split for good about a year ago, and it’s been NC ever since, even though I’ve seen him at public events (and I SMILE and WAVE from a safe distance, and I have absolutely no bad feelings towards him; just immense relief).
He met someone else, as predicted – she asked him out. Only she’s even less available than I am. So he gets his dream pretend relationship – his family aren’t allowed to know about her, no one else is allowed to know about her, and they will simply ‘keep company’ until she gets (or doesn’t get) an annulment of her first marriage, and then they will ‘discern’ some more… He told me all this with a perfectly straight face.
It was all so utterly bizarre that all I could do was laugh and laugh. And then I went home, and I had a little cry over the past, and then you know what? I started to laugh again, because I felt such an incredible sense of relief. It was like losing 120kg of unwanted weight, all in one go.
And I haven’t looked back. Not once. I have no desire to have any contact with him at all. I am grateful for the good times, but honestaGod, I am so, so grateful that he’s out of my life.
I had had NO IDEA how bad he was making me feel, until I suddenly – that day – got my self-respect back.
It was so sudden that it hit me a bit like a slap. I suddenly felt attractive again. I felt confident. I had been thinking it was because I was a bit overweight that I didn’t feel confident, but you know what? It was because my soul was being sucked dry by a man who didn’t love me.
THAT’S what makes you feel bad, ladies. It’s not your hairdo, or your waistline, or your wardrobe, or your address. It’s that man in your life who quite simply should not be there.
So thank you, Natalie, for being there, and for bearing with me patiently while I had to learn the hard way about so many things. But oh, it was worth it – to have such confidence and drive and energy back again, and to be able to have my hair cut whenever I want, in the way that I want, instead of worrying about what he’d think of it … It’s such a relief, and such a joy.
“THAT’S what makes you feel bad, ladies. It’s not your hairdo, or your waistline, or your wardrobe, or your address. It’s that man in your life who quite simply should not be there.”
THATS IT!!!
This particular post is right on!In fact while I was reading it he cancelled our date 3 hours from now by text with an I’m sorry tossed in for good measure. I thought I had something better than the previous dating disappointments but really all this one turned out to be was a man bearing gifts once in a while to keep me on the hook. There has not been one date set he hasn’t cancelled or altered in some way (rescheduled.)His word is just like mayonnaise left out overnight on the counter. Sickening & unreliable!
@Meerkat:
Darling, you already know he’s a bad news so please please please go NC.It took me 8 months of back and forth until I was so exhausted and spent I could hardly move. I blocked the AC’s contact couple of times and unblocked it when I felt weak. But when I finally did it, I felt so right and myself after so many years of FF and unproductive dreaming, discussions etc. Once I went NC and blocked his number (that helped a lot!) that was it. If you asked me a year ago if I could get over this guy I would be weepy and say that I am addicted and I can’t live without him. What a load of BS. I know for sure I can’t live without MYSELF. These ACs and Narcs let you choose.. I wish you lots od courage and strength in your decisions. Hugs!
Thank you for your support Elle – he is off on a new adventure now so there will be no contact from him. He made all the decisions and knew my weaknesses so he had all the power. He even said I was upset because I could not get what I wanted – more like upset because of how he abused me and I enabled it. He even wanted sex when I was crying and asked for it before he left me alone in the hotel, dangling the carrot of staying in touch with me and seeing him again. I said no and after he left he cut off contact all together. I will get there and yes, it was always my decision as he could not care less.
That’s right, they do let you chose. I got asked, ‘what more can you expect?’ oh boy… you have no idea the list of realistic expectations I hold dear to my heart. All of which he utterly failed to meet.
Meerkat, life with NC is a relief from the pain. We are here to help.
HappyAgain
Thanks for “They get pleasure from breaking yor down.” I cannt see any other reason besides this one.
Meerkat – boy does that resonate with me… over a year when I would find my voice and start to express my needs, wants, desires in a relationship… I would always get the response “I can’t give you what you want right now” as he was in the middle of a divorce. So my little brain thinks oh he is just dealing with so much grief from the divorce is why. That held me on for a year and 4 months – they still aren’t divorced. Haven’t lived together since June 2012 but I have always highly suspected his main goal is to reconcile and there is some sick emotional dance they do when she would piss him off he would be wonderful to me when she maybe batted an eyelash and was sweet on things I was completely ignored for days and sometimes weeks. If I contacted him got one word texts back and was always too tired to talk on the phone much – ugh. Anyway I digress, when I read your words it was like wow I heard that everytime and ya know the part I focused on in that whole sentence “right now” so that kept me holding on thinking he was suddenly going to combust and value me, have both feet in of interest in a relationship with me, want to commit to me yada yada yada. Over that time it just got more and more distant and less and less emotion expressed – it was to the point of civil and oh yeah always ended with sex the two time a month he wanted to see me. Where was/is my self esteem?? When I step back and think about one of my girlfriends telling me a man was treating her in all the ways he treated me I would tell her YOU DESERVE BETTER WHY ARE YOU WASTING YOUR TIME ON A GUY THAT TREATS YOU THAT WAY??? But it was me and it was him and well he wasn’t doing these things on purpose right?? uhhh yeah he was and I had to come to the realization that there are AC EUMs out there that don’t have the capacity or the desire to put forth the effort to value women (me).
Sally: glad I could offer some good insights and we are getting wiser each time and thankfully for this site we can support each other as we go on our journeys!
ljsrmissy – I just saw your comment to me tonight thank you! I also just watched the video/poem. Yes – I see what you mean the line that stood out to me the most was we have been raised in sexism… and of course the end line of what are we teaching our boys. MY AC/EUM/NARC (I don’t even know what to call him) had a dad that was a player of women through and through. Cheated on ACs mother, physically and emotionally abused AC, and played women like chess pieces. And ya know what – I have lost count in just the year and 4 months I was with AC who he told me the stories about his dad – at first he said well my dad was a true player but I play for one for keeps, but as time went on when he would recall those same stories there was awe in his eyes, admiration for his dad’s ability to be talking to the girl at the store register and be in bed with her that night, and how it didn’t matter age, color, financial level – he got anyone he wanted to sleep with him – BY HIS CHARM. He fake charming someone, saying whatever he needed to and showing such passionate interest in her after only speaking to her for minutes to make her feel like she was the most wonderful creature he had ever encountered in his life – and it worked LIKE A CHARM. My AC charmed the pants off of me (and yes literally before I even wanted to) the first 2 mos – he had been pushing me away ever since. But fed me enough interest, lines, hooks to keep me vested thinking that guy that made me feel like the most special, beautiful, wonderful woman he had been looking for all of his life that “he was reallllly going to fall in love this time” (his words) because I was that special compared to anyone in his past… um yeah. At the end only text me the day before he wanted to get together for dinner/sex zippo days and weeks after until he was bored, horny, or felt it might have been too long of a gap and he better try to make sure I was still hooked. It makes me want to vomit that I could actually be played when I thought he (well all men) were so genuine like my husband that died – truly loved me and treated me with the most value, respect, care a girl could imagine. I’m learning. Thank you all for your words of wisdom – it’s helping me to stop giving him the out of “not being like those other guys AC EUM NARC and the rest” but truly seeing him for what he is and how he treated me.
ljsrmissy, Elgie R, Selkie- I don’t know if you’ll read this but thank you so much for ypur replies! All three of you are right. As I was just a sex toy, who cares about conversation? He is a little bit controlling and I often wondered if he was a sex addict. He can get away with it because he’s single, just pats on the back from his buddies.
At one time I would have pitied him. Now, I just don’t care. He’s a grown up and I don’t coddle grown ups.
Rosie,
Don’t beat u up too much. We have AAALLLLLLL been there. How he saw you is how he saw you, but that has NOTHING to do with who you ARE!! YOU decide the truth in who and what you are!!
Thanks to all those who wrote me & basically, I agree with you all!
I am still cigarette free here (9 days now) & no desire to smoke AT ALL.
Otherwise, unbelievably FOUR more emails arrived yesterday from this awful ex. I have already said I wont be replying any further (after previous polite attempts at telling him, in no circumstances am I interested in him failed). The crap he’s writing is very delusional & painting himself as a victim in matters between us that never even occurred!
I’m actually a little frightened. There’s no threats in the emails so nothing to hang my hat on to apply for an intervention order. Apart from the night I split up with him decades ago when he yelled at me in a very frightening way & man handked / locked me out of his flat in the middle of the night in my underwear (I had to BEG to.be let.back in to collect my clothes & things), he’s never been overtly violent toward me, but I suspect he has a capacity for this. I’ve deleted all his messages & not replied. Give me strength!! I’m VERY angry!! :(((
Hang in there Teachable. Anger is very, very normal especially when an AC is trying to re-paint the past or play victim. Let yourself feel your anger but also let it pass. Focus on what you can control – you. Your feelings, your actions, your attitude. He will NOT win. He will NOT. You’ve got this. NC all the way! You’ve told him he will receive no further reply, now make sure you stick to that. If he has the potential to be violent or threatening you must stay away at all costs. I agree that maybe you should print the emails out for evidence before deleting them or forward them to a friend that you trust. Be careful!!
hugs!
Teachable- Maybe print out all copies of his E-mails and your telling him that you eon’t respind further? I hope it doesn’t get to that point but you may need them as evidence.
Fedup/Rosie,
I deleted the emails already. They were upsetting due to insanity of wrongful statements in them. I ALMOST replied by writing back to say, ‘listen bucko, XY&Z are ALL complete figments of your IMAGINATION so F*CK OFF & stay away from me’. My next thought after starting to draft just such a reply was how stressed I was & that I wanted a cigarette.
I caught myself, deleted my half drafted reply & ALL of his emails along with it. AGAIN I blocked his email address (had already done this but they kept coming for some reason?)
What pisses me off is that all of this has arisen from ONE PHONE CALL..That’s right. My ONLY contact with this guy in 25 YEARS was a fakebook message initiating contact where numbers were exchanged, then ONE PHONE CALL. I was alarmed at some of the things he said in the call afterward & wrote him by email to say this & to tell him I wish to.have no further contact. I even stated this was not due to anything HE had done, now or in the past, but was simply a choice I’m making about what’s best for me. STILL though, I get MORE.emails begging me practically to be with him !
The whole thing is outrageous. This guy is NOTHING to me! I will be maintaining NC no matter what he says or does bc ppl that ARENT EVEN A PART OF MY LIFE WILL NOT BE GIVEN ONE DROP OF MY ENERGY. I have genuinely important things to attend to here. 1. STAYING a non smoker (so far so good) & 2. I’m back @ uni.
When it comes right down to it this PITA is no match for me. Noquay, he’s one of yr ‘escaped from city to tiny country town in middle of no-where where he’s been unemployed for 20+ years (he’s only 45!), has lost HALF A LUNG DUE TO LIFESTYLE CHOICES, owns NOTHING & continues to have unresolved AOD issues (ie he is on methadone!)
But, he has a motorbike (he says) & we could ‘have fun together’ & he would ‘even let me ride it’ (doesnt allow anyone else to apparently). BTW, he is also practically illiterate. His writing is so poor he could not keep any job requiring written word skills (former shearer). Anyway, whoopde effin do to his future faking guff (he’s not even faking anything I’d want which is just really sad & pathetic!)
With any luck he will fall off that motorbike & break both arms so he cant send me anymore messages! LOL
Run like this Teach:
ps.fedup,
He was never violent or threatening to me when we dated way bk when (we never lived together). There was just the night we split up. If I think about it NOW I would call that violent although I didnt really at the time as (sadly) as a kid I’d experienced much worse. I was genuinely scared of him that night. So scared that I took a friend with me when I returned later to collect my belongings, after first leaving having convinced him to give me my clothes. I think in hindsight IF I’d continued the r.ship with him after that he might have become violent.
These guys are SCAREY. I’m RUNNING in the opposite direction not walking. And that’s even though with TWO second dan black belts I could now kick his arse! It’s the life damage I’m not interested in. I have nothing in common with this guy. When I knew him he smoked a bit of pot & was a shearer. Life since then for him went terribly awry (by his own choices though). Sad for him but NOT MY PROBLEM. 😉
Another feeble and pitiful attempt at contact last night. That’s two in less than two weeks. Again, having a mutual friend ask if I had my golf video made yet. What the hell people? I can’t decide if I should just ignore it completely or tell the friend that this subject is off limits and not to talk to me about the AC ever again. Thoughts?
Fed Up. You are doing good. RUN..Don’t walk. BR nation wants to see you leave skidmarks from trying to run from this. Run like this: http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/oh-shi.gif
And this:
The thing about abusers, AC’s, and the like, they never quite apologize. They never quite take ownership for theirs. At best, they will give a half assed (I’m sorry if YOU felt)type apologies that are more insulting than anything. They lack humility. If this guy was truly trying to get back into your graces, he should ATLEAST have some humility, recognize, acknowledge, and apologize for his wrong doing. “Has she made her golf video yet”? That’s what he chooses to come up with? He is not the least bit concerned about your golf video. I know you are not looking for an apology, you are looking to spray him with your AC-b-Gone spray lol! In terms of your question, I would ask her to please ignore any messages from him asking about you. Or she can ago ahead and tell him herself to stop asking about you on her facebook. Its rude and inconsiderate and shows that he don’t care who he uses/bothers to meet his selfish ends.
I am in the middle of this right now. I’ve been in an on-again off-again thing with an EUM for the past three plus years. It’s long-distance too so perfect for someone like him. I have bent every rule that I’ve ever made for myself and rationalized his behavior to an extent I never thought myself capable of. We have talked about him coming to visit me. I always visit him since I have family in the area so I can get a two-fer with the visits. Every time we talk about it, it’s the “we should do that” or kind of non-committal. Never fully no. After a couple of weeks of talking and feeling close, I sent him a text saying that I was asking him straight out if he would please come see me. Yes and we make plans, no and I stop bringing it up. His response? Silence. I sent a follow up text saying that I was taking his silence as a no but it would have been nice to get a response. More silence. It’s now been four days since the initial text. A question made him head for the hills? Even when I gave him an opt out? At most it would have been a commitment of four days. That is ridiculous. Of course I am now beating myself up for even sending it.
I would add, after so many years, I’d totally forgotten about how this man treated me on the night I ended the relationship with him all those years ago (just one episode of that sort of BS was more than enough for me to end things. I don’t date ppl who during an argument THEY’VE needlessly provoked humiliate me & cause me to feel fearful. Period!). For some reason (not sure why exactly?), it seems I had forgiven him & attempted on one occassion to help him a few years later. This proved a fruitless waste of my time & although annoyed, I wasn’t too concerned as it involved only 24 hrs & I was very guarded with my boundaries so he was treated as a platonic friend only & no harm was done. I think this is why I wasn’t recalling this guy in the ‘could be a problem’ catagory. He’s never been a problem in all these long yrs so why would he start being one now? Maybe because he didn’t want to be with me back then & his life wasnt so shite then but now he does as he can see I have a good life? His emails are concerning in what they reveal about his lack of personal development, insight & world view (suddenly claims to be victim of me ‘using him’ when we dated all those years ago. This could not be further from the truth. Not only did I not need to use him FOR anything but it was he who simply didnt love me like I thought I did him, so a short time after I ended things following said poor treatment he packed up & left town to go interstate & return to shearing work). I do know I never want to have to deal with this bozo again. He has never made these claims before (also claims he was 2nd best as I was seeing someone else when seeing him that apparently I had told him about. This too is complete rubbish. I was dead set totally in love with this guy & I am VERY pedantic about never dating two ppl at the same time. Even back then I was like this.) I have no idea why he is making them now. He told me many years ago I was only person looking back who had treated him WELL in a relationship & who had NOT just used him. I think maybe his drug abuse that has been quite serious in the intervening years may have caused some brain damage? Anyway, deeply regretting ever talking to this guy in the 1st place. He will NEVER get to speak to or interact with me again. I don’t do crazy makers that LIE & frankly insult me!
I dont know if I had a future faker or what I had but it didnt end well after I asked for a commitment of some kind. Apparently the longest relationship he ever had was 4 months prior to me… I was 23 and he was 33 We had been dating for years long distance until I moved to his town to try and find a career in my field of study… once there, we became exclusive and I met his friends and family. I had to leave my apt and was faced with the fact that i might have to leave the state so he asked me to stay with him… he got upset after only a couple of weeks of us living together so i tried to pack up and leave but he told me he was sorry and to take the time i needed. I believed him and during this time, he asked me to try on wedding dresses (even though i didnt have a ring so i said no) anyways, we had a good relationship but then the job i was supposed to get fell through and my beloved cat was diagnosed with cancer back home. I didnt feel it was right for me to stay with him when he didnt tell me “please dont go i cant live without you” he only told me “you can stay if you want…” plus i didnt want to infringe on his independence and make him feel like he had to take care of me so i asked him if we could continue our relationship until I came back and he agreed. The following few months he asked me when i was coming back and I told him, we already lived together and i really enjoyed that, unless we are going to live together than i cant come back and do it alone again… we continued our relationship and he would make statements like “maybe and well see how things go” ‘take it one day at a time” towards the later part of our relationship he sent me the most amazing valentines day card i ever received and i cherish it to this day. Finally, I needed to know where we were going so I took a visit to see him with the intention of bringing it up. On the way to our weekend getaway, after asking him what he was in deep thought about, he said he was thinking of this girl he used to date and how he wished he would have kept in touch with her… i tried to ignore it and make the best of the time we had until i asked him where things were going and he told me all of these excuses including “i just cant see myself with just one woman the rest of my life” he told me he didnt want to talk about it and just went to bed and ignored me as i cried in the bathroom.. the next day i gave him the distant and cold shoulder, he acted as if everything was okay and asked me to go shopping.. i told him no i just want to go home. at the airport i told him i had a feeling this would be the last time we saw each other and he kissed me goodbye and i knew because weeks later he gave me the whole “i dont know what i want in my life and need to figure it out but i hope eventually we will get back together…” fast forward now, he became distant after saying he wanted to be friends and cried on the phone after i told him i felt like we were best friends and now i dont even know him at all.. and that i dont appreciate him telling me i misunderstood anything he said. i said we could be friends but im starting to think this is not a good idea anymore…
It’s not a good idea to try being friends. I did and it was a hassle. I had to go NC, she kept breaking it, so I had to block her phone, route her email to trash, and lockdown my facebook because she was insistent on keeping the door open in case she changed her mind or had some use for me.
But she said almost verbatim what your guy did, about not seeing herself with just one man the rest of her life, never living with someone ever again, and how she doesn’t know what she’s doing with her life and needs to figure it out…but she was always dangling that “maybe we’ll be together one day again” carrot of hope so that I wouldn’t cut her off. She dragged out the “break up” almost a month with trying to push her own agenda. She was a piece of work, maybe moreso than your guy because I don’t see any evidence of emotional abuse like what I experienced with her (long story, told it in the comments elsewhere.)
I can tell you for sure I have felt so much better in the month since I’ve cut her off. I’m meeting other women and have reached a point where I’m actually ready to try with someone else. There’s life after this guy but you’ve got to get yourself some space. Cut him off. He’s not going to change, or if he does and he wants you, he will come for you. If he does, be wary of trusting him unless he proves himself and you see noticeable change. With mine, I’ll know if she’s changed if she actually bothers with “Hi, how are you” and listens to what I have to say instead of immediately dumping her feelings or troubles on me without so much as a hello. It’d take an act of God to trust her, though. Like you, I thought this was my best friend, until I realized the person she presented before we dated and then during the first few months, doesn’t exist. As she unfolded she completely flipped on her values, morals, showed low integrity, and most importantly, she neglected and mistreated me. I’ll forgive in time, but I will NEVER forget. Good luck and I wish you well. Someone great will come along one day and you won’t even remember ol’ what’s his name.
Hi, I am new to this site and have I think read almost every post and at least half the comments. I haven’t been with a man romantically speaking in about 5 years and have been pretty much avoiding the area. Had a profile up on a dating site but pretty much forgot about it until one day I got his email from a gentleman. And so it began. We did the usual, text, talk on the phone etc…he was very chatty and flattering mixed in with what felt like genuine talk. We met a week later and it went fine, definite physical attraction. He wanted to hold my hand that first day which I wasn’t really comfortable with but then thought oh what the hell it is just his hand. It didn’t last long as I pulled away sneakily. When he left he snuck a kiss in on the mouth – that was bold I thought.
This guy could sweet talk. I even at one point called him out right a player. Then he made a joke and we both laughed.
A few weeks went by, lots of phone calls, texts, FB songs for me…lol…he declared multiple times how interested he was and that he was actually playing it down as he didn’t want to scare me away etc…
Then he asked me if I would go away overnight to a really cool place (I won’t say here where it was) he would make sure there were two beds blah blah and I agreed.
Long and short, I slept with him. I knew I shouldn’t but he was so convincing that he was’t going anywhere that he so interested and wanted to have a relationship….I blindly trusted. Plus, I hadn’t been with a man in so long, well, anyway.
After the trip he backed off somewhat but I persisted so we met again and he asked me if I wanted to have this relationship with me and I said I did.
Major back off after this. Major. He was busy with work, the house, paperwork etc…it turned into a huge vacuum that I got sucked into and I got pissed off.
We met again. I asked him direct questions, got vague answers etc…I told him that I wanted to have phone conversations and not texts. We slept together again. He left texted me when he got said thank you for an awesome time and then and 2 days went by and another text asking how my day went yesterday. Then 3 days. Nothing. No call, no text, not even FB…lol\\I sent him an email (as he doesn’t answer his phone even though he said he would drop everything if I called) that basically told him I was done and why. It was pretty harsh.
Then I felt bad about being so harsh in the email. So I sent him another one that was a little nicer in words but the same message, I’m done. This is so confusing to me. He has not tried to contact me and that probably bothers me more than anything. Why can’t he just say you know what I am sorry I put you through all this but I don’t want to have a relationship. And then why ask me if I wanted to do in the first place….very frustrating.
Thanks for reading all this, feeling alone and confused.
Lorri,
Your comment raised my hackles somewhat and that is putting it mildly. The man is a cowardly, selfish, deceptive a**cavity. An empty space. If I could I would go up to him for you and give him a piece of my mind and then slap him -“that’s for masquerading as a man, knowing full well you prefer being a little boy and ultimately will behave as a cowardly little boy. Shame on you and now get the eff out of my sight”.
Your confusion is understandable. He’s a disappearing coward who used you. Please don’t write any more emails to him. If he does ever get in touch silence is a self respecting option for you. I am curious as to Mr A**cavity’s age and marital status.
Natalie’s posts on the misnomer which is online ‘dating’, lazy communication and looking at actions rather than relying on words in the *discovery* phase of dating may be of use to you. I am so sorry you were duped by this future faking, fast talking little boy in a man’s body. Take good care of yourself and if relevant I hope you will reconnect with your own sense of value and self respect. If you can do this your confusion will start to dissipate.
Dear Lorri
I can relate to your post, and I can only extend a virtual hug your way. If we were having a cup of tea right now, I’d say the following.
A similar thing happened to me last year, particularly how you describe the ending. So I hope I can give you advice from a place of empathy. Nat posted a picture very recently that simply said ‘the most painful goodbyes are the ones that are never said and never explained.’
Well, I couldn’t have said it better myself eh! This was like a rock on my head. It provided some explanation as to why I just couldn’t get over how he disappeared.
Like you, I had done the same thing – sent a harsh text as I had no idea where I stood. He replied & apologised, so then I sent another which was nicer & more apologetic etc. I don’t need to go into the detail, as I’m pretty much over the whole saga, but he did what your EUM did & disappeared into the ether.
Through much reading of BR, and some very wonderful & beautiful comments from other readers, I hope I can offer a few snippets of wisdom. I might pop this in dot-form below.
– First of all, this isn’t about you. This is his appalling behaviour, which has absolutely nothing to do with you. Don’t let this define you.
– He is clearly a coward for being intentionally evasive and not even having the decency to end things properly (for whatever misguided reason). I’d say this is because he is either quite ashamed of his behaviour (unlikely) or he is a selfish, narcissistic EUM twat who has got what he wanted & disappeared off the face of the earth (more likely). Who knows, but either way, don’t spend any more time trying to work his behaviour out.
– Which brings me to my next point. You may not understand his behaviour & why this has happened, but you don’t have or need to, either. Don’t spend one more minute of your precious time asking yourself about his behaviour. We can’t expect others to behave as we would (with love, care, trust & respect) because they aren’t us.
– Which brings me to the love, care, trust and respect. You absolutely deserve this & he hasn’t shown it to you. People unfold. When they show you who they are, believe them. If this how he behaves, then let his behaviour speak for itself & run run run far away. Consider this a blessing in disguise. You don’t want a weak, spineless pr*ck.
– Because surely a grown man can end things in a mature, adult way. If for some reason, he had to opt out, then yes, the reasonable and kind and respectful thing is to say so. But he didn’t, which says for more about his character than anything about you.
– Which brings me to my last people. Look after you in this situation. Do something nice for you. Don’t let this put you off dating, and not all men are like this. But do things you love & enjoy. Most importantly, I have learnt from BR to know my worth, and never settle for anything less than. If your instincts are telling you ‘no’ or ‘run far, far away’ (Forrest Gump style), then trust them. Trust you. Learn the red flags, and know when to opt out.
Big hugs. And I hope I have helped. Be assured that you will get past the lonely & frustrated & confused stage. Keep reading BR. I have discovered my worth, learnt my boundaries, know of red flags, and am staying well clear of doofusy loser eejits these days.
Nel
Oh, ridiculous typo in the first line of the second last paragraph. Last people = last point. Thank goodness it’s Friday arvo!
lizzp > Thank you for saying what I had been thinking. Sometimes it is hard not to blame yourself as a person with a good responsibility level I think would naturally do so. It is the silence that hurts and leaves a void.
He has just turned 60 or that is what he told me, who knows, I didn’t check his credentials. He says he was in a 10 year marriage but she divorced him 2 years ago. May or may not be true.
The reason why I felt he could be trusted is because he is a group facilitator for kids at high risk, so I assumed someone in this position must have a fair bit of knowledge in psychology to be doing this as a profession. I “assumed” he had used some of this knowledge to better himself as well.
I won’t write anymore emails to him. He is back hunting on the dating site I met him on. I removed my profile.
This whole event really took me down a peg or 10 and I am trying to sort through whose baggage is whose now, but it is not easy at all. There are hours when I am will be doing okay and then something triggers and I am on the floor again.
I saw this poem and thought it was apt.
“Sticks and stones are hard on bones, aimed with angry art, words can sting like anything but silence breaks the heart.”
— Phyllis McGinley
LovefromNel > I would love to be having a cup of tea with you. Part of the problem is noone to talk to – I have family here but I cannot be being negative at this time as my sister was just diagnosed with third stage lung cancer and my mom is struggling to accept it and I don’t want to burden my sister. So, hence, alone.
Having your judgement smashed up like that leaves one wondering what one thought they saw or didn’t see. It wipes out self confidence and trust in yourself. Fortunately there is lots of information and there are tools to be used on this site for someone like me who trusts too easily.
Thank you so much for responding, I really needed some feedback as I have been turning in wild agonizing circles over this and I needed some friends.
I happened to have been in a relationship with a man who only texted and emailed, with little phone contact. I had the insight to google men who only text and email which brought me to baggage reclaim! I can’t stress enough the two books of THE NO CONTACT RUlE and MR UNAVAILABLE AND THE fALLBACk GIRL. Both brought me to a fast reality check and I dumped the guy after 5 weeks. He is so successful and 10 years older than me, a widower. That one would like to think a guy in his mid life should have his life more together! Wrong….age has nothing to do with life. I feel so much more empowered, by these books, this guy had the multi dysfunction of future faker, emotionally unavailable , distancer, arseclown. After reading baggage reclaim I said goodbye really fast. These two books are my bibles for,the next relationship. I can only suggest you read them! Eve