Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl is now available in print – yay – so I thought it was high time I shared an excerpt from this completely rewritten edition. In the chapter, He Keeps a Foothold in Your Life, I explain how playing the ‘Friend Card’ and popping up from time to time in your life no matter how long you’ve been apart can make it difficult for you to move on. As many of you have already discovered, it can be very tricky to shake someone with the tenacity of a cockroach after a nuclear bomb out of your life when they’re determined to keep you as a rainy day option in their back pocket…
Let’s cut straight to the chase – he can’t keep control of you and maintain The Status Quo (his comfort zone) outside of the relationship if he doesn’t have a foot in your life and is unsure of your interest. He’s all about his comfort zone, so aside from having a comfort zone for when you’re involved, he equally has one for when you’re no longer together. In his mind, you’re either going to be together on his terms or apart on his terms. As a result, he’s quite frankly a pain in the bum.
From pushing the ‘Friend Card’, to poking around in your life, to chasing you for contact, attention, and even sex, he’s devised a number of means to attempt to maintain control even when the relationship is over. He can’t commit – whether it’s to being with you or leaving you the hell alone – so he’s ensuring that you’re an option should he change his mind or have a use for you, while feeding his ego with the security of what he perceives as your affections for him. He’s rarely upfront about this so of course this wreaks havoc in the lives of any and all Fallback Girls that give him the time of day.
The moment that you appear to be moving on is when he’ll home in on you, blow hot, and set you back ten steps. You’ll readily accept his offer of his friendship because you don’t want to let go either and you keep reminding yourself how he’s so nice, what great qualities he has, and how ‘connected’ you are, and how he’s so like your soulmate except for the small problem of him being emotionally unavailable and unable to commit. Let’s just cut to the chase:
He’s not your friend and he exploits an innate human desire to be perceived as being friend-worthy.
When he suggests that you should be friends or comes back and dangles the ‘Friend Card’ when he’s trying to squeeze his way into your life on lesser terms, it’s because if you won’t give him the time of day, let alone your friendship, aside from the fact that it will be very tricky for him to keep a foot in your life, you not being his friend communicates that he might not be as ‘wonderful’ or ‘innocent’ as he believes.
There’s a universal belief that if someone is still prepared to be your friend after you’ve broken up, it means you’re a good person. Securing friendship and respect, even if it’s undeserved, becomes of paramount importance. What he’s failed to realise is that these are things that are earned and if he’s that bloody concerned with being perceived as hurting or wronging someone, it’s about time he sought for his actions to reflect this.
You know when he asks to be friends after the breakup and you don’t hear from him for a while? It’s because, in you saying YES he’s secured enough of an ego stroke that he only sees the need to get in touch with you to check that it still stands.
You know when he pesters you about hanging out, catching up, or whatever to show that you’re ‘friends’ and then you agree and he suddenly goes ‘dark’ or the arrangement falls through? He secured enough of an ego stroke through your agreement that he sees no further use for you. For now.
You know when he badgers you to understand things from his perspective or for your forgiveness, only for him to go off and mistreat you again? It’s because he’s gained what he wants – forgiveness – so the slate’s been wiped clean. Even though he may do more stuff to piss you off, in his mind you’re ‘friends’.
The truth is: only people who are undeserving of your friendship have to badger, railroad, and guilt you into being their friend. If they were someone who acted with love, care, trust, and respect, they’d have a relative comfort in knowing they acted well enough that there is a possibility of friendship, but they equally would respect your need for space and not assume that they have a right to your friendship.
POKING AROUND
It’s easier to keep in touch with minimal effort, and with so many of us sharing aspects of our lives online that often link us to mutual friends and acquaintances, it has never been so easy for someone to poke around in our lives.
When he’s in ‘investigative mode’, he’s looking for clues either from you or third party sources that 1) you haven’t moved on, 2) you’re still the person he thought you were, and 3) that you’re still an option. Unfortunately, as Fallback Girls, we’re inclined to see poking around as something flattering – we think it’s a reflection of his feelings and inability to resist us. Be under no illusions – he’s poking around to maintain The Status Quo. Nothing more, nothing less.
If you haven’t heard from him, little do you realise, he may have done the poking around he needed without having to let you know about it. He may have asked mutual friends about you who told him that you’re OK but suffering (he thinks you’re still into him), or checked your Facebook profile and seen that you’re not happy or people sympathising with you (he thinks you’re still into him), or seen you walking around the office or town looking like someone has died (he thinks you’re still into him), seen a ‘tweet’ about how much your heart hurts (he thinks you’re still into him), or heard how you tried to date but decided to stop (he thinks you’re still into him).
Equally, he may have got confirmation that you’re still an option from you.
He may have gotten a call, text, or email from you checking in to ‘see how he’s doing’ (he thinks you’re still into him), or another message wondering why you haven’t heard from him (he thinks you’re still into him), or you told him he’s an asshole for treating you X/Y/Z but still responded to his next contact (he thinks you’re still into him), or you quickly reply to messages or agree to meet up (he thinks you’re still into him).
When you get the frenzied poking around, where he’s calling, showing up at your work or home, etc., it’s highly likely it’s because you’re not responding to any of these, or have responded in a drastically negative manner, and he hasn’t found third-party means to confirm your interest. While for a lot of Mr Unavailables even a very negative response is still attention in their eyes, for some, a very negative response will trigger that out-of-control sensation, and – yep, you guessed it – they start pursuing you, thinking they want to get back together, Future Faking etc. If you eventually move from very negative to positive again, which confirms your interest and validates their ego, they’ll bail or turn into Mr Not So Interested.
Your thoughts?
The new edition of Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girl is now available to buy both in print and in digital formats plus check out my ebooks the No Contact Rule and and more in my bookshop.
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“When he suggests that you should be friends or comes back and dangles the ‘Friend Card’ when he’s trying to squeeze his way into your life on lesser terms, it’s because if you won’t give him the time of day, let alone your friendship, aside from the fact that it will be very tricky for him to keep a foot in your life, you not being his friend communicates that he might not be as ‘wonderful’ or ‘innocent’ as he believes.”
YUP! As someone who’s been on the end of a few “I just wanted to say hi.” messages from a nincompoop with a serious mean streak, this was my favorite section in the book. If it wasn’t for this blog and the book, I would have sat around thinking, “Well, maybe I’m being immature for not wanting to be friends? I don’t want to get hurt again, but what a baby I’m being.” and then guilted myself over it.
It was really kind of funny, because this guy couldn’t have given a hoot in the past what was going on in my life, but after the Last Straw Break-Up (seriously, if things are even anywhere near that point – cut your losses and put your straws into something more useful…like a gin & tonic) he all of a sudden popped up repeatedly asking “What’s going on in your life?” Now I know that probably translates to, “Have you met someone? Have you forgotten about me? My back pocket is feeling a little light sister, please give up the info so I can slither away content that you’re still around.”
If you know someone’s not friend-worthy, believe that your feelings are valid, don’t let anyone Reset Button you and cut. them. off!
“the Last Straw Break-Up ” *snorting with laughter* The great thing is Natasha, you see through all these shenanigans as if you have X-ray vision. That’s major progress. It’s not immature to not want to be friends. The question I always have for people who persist in trying to force the friendship thing is this: Are you ever planning on moving on? Because it’s only people that aren’t that can invest themselves in the vocation of trying to string a friendship together with 1) someone that treated them like shit 2) wants to use them or 3) is now resisting the friendship. Where does this ex fit in when you move on? “Oh New Partner. Yes this is my ex who used to treat me like crap/has used me since we broke up/I had to force to be friends with me.” Are they going to be invited out? Yeah I thought not.
Nat, I am so grateful to you for giving me that X-ray vision! For serious, keeping these people around is the emotional equivalent of donning the Krystle Carrington peignoir and yelling, “I LOVE DRAMA!”
It’s funny, because only once in my three decades on this Earth have I ever sat around thinking about a platonic friend, “Should I be friends with them?” In every other case it’s like, “I like them, they like me. I respect them, they respect me. I enjoy their company, they enjoy my company. Good times!” Just because we’ve slept with/had a “relationship” with someone doesn’t mean that these fundamentals don’t apply. It would be like me responding to my ex with, “Yes, I know you don’t particularly like or respect me and I don’t like or respect you, but we should totally be friends! I have no desire to move on with my life, so text me whenever you’re bored. ” HELLO.
I totally agree on the new partner issue as well. Nothing says, “Date me!” like a bunch of malingering exes. That sample dialogue was not only dead on, I laughed so hard that my dog is now trying to jump on my desk to see what’s so funny 🙂
way to kick off the comments Natasha!
“I just wanted to say hi.” -check
“Well, maybe I’m being immature for not wanting to be friends? I don’t want to get hurt again, but what a baby I’m being.” and then guilted myself over it.-check
“…his guy couldn’t have given a hoot in the past what was going on in my life”-BIG CHECK
“Have you met someone? Have you forgotten about me? My back pocket is feeling a little light sister, please give up the info so I can slither away content that you’re still around.”-hello? can i get a check please??!!!!
Natalie is too right-friendship should be earned-because we are valuable & so is our friendship 🙂
Awwww thanks girl 🙂 Your checklist has me cracking up! For serious, when you actually physically write out how some of these guys operate, you can literally mark off a series of items on The Official Assclown Docket.
I left out one classic line of my ex’s (it’s a doozy)…”I feel bad about what happened between us/how things ended/any bad feelings between us.” It’s a very sneaky way of trying to worm back in, because it SOUNDS like they are being genuine, but they are not actually saying, “I acknowledge and take responsibility for my actions and their effects.” It’s sort of like the Splenda of apologies – looks like it, sounds like it, but there’s no real sugar in the bowl. A faux-pology, if you will. It’s even more ridiculous if they’ve busted out the same line before and then gone on to do the exact same things yet again. CHECK PLEASE!
Hey Natalie, my ex cockroach just stepped up the frenzied poking around through a mutual friend who I can’t tell to stop because, of course, our involvement was an affair. The poking around started last week and she came around today with more “news”. We’ve been strictly NC since his wife found about about the affair at the beginning of July. There hasn’t been so much as a peep or tweet or text out of me and I don’t post on my FB (he’s defriended any how) and he’s blocked from every cyberspace connection. I haven’t given the mutual friend any info about me so she has nothing to report back. You are right about feeling flattered but it is clearly because he has absolutely no idea what I’m doing or thinking and there is NO status quo to maintain. Thus, it’s about him getting a foot back in the door. As you say, it is so easy to slip into the FBG role and think that he finds me irresistible. Oh, be still my FBG heart. This guy sure knows how to do the EUM/AC/FBG dance. He better be looking for a new dance partner. My greatest joy at the moment is knowing that I am not an option and he is not wonderful and innocent let alone my s***lmate or even a friend. Thanks Natalie for the gift of NC. I’ll keep flushing until the chunk goes down. MM’s are such giant turds.
I’ve been in EXACTLY the same boat runnergirl :'( And this entire blog is spot on. But it still hurts like hell, in a way when they contact you it’s validation also, although I’m short in reply and friendly but say very little my heart leaps when it’s him. I told EUG where to go nearly a month ago and he has emailed me 3 weeks ago, text me 2 weeks ago to wish me luck with something and drunk dialed me last weekend (which I know he won’t remember). I don’t know if I’ll hear from him again now but I sort of hope I do, I feel we need an ‘air-clear’ (rightfully or wrongfully). Grrrr. *breathe*. I know they’re not worth the energy but it’s hard to just turn the brain off and not become overwhelmed at times! x
It’s time to ask yourself what one drunk dial, one text, and one email are validating RubyTuesday because from where I’m sitting, it’s not much. I know all too well how painful these situations but shouldn’t you want more. How have we as women been reduced to seeing one drunk dial, one text and an email as something worthwhile and meaningful? The man is so underwhelming it’s unbelievable!
Jeez he’s so predictable it’s scary. It would be great to be irresistible but the truth is, his nose is out of joint. Just as much as the OW gets used to the routine, so do they. If I had been used to sex, ego stroke, and having my cake and eating it with two women, I’d miss it too. I always snigger when you say about flushing that chunk down. Amen!
Thank you Natalie,
With your help and all of the wonderful folks who post, I see how scary he is and my situation is NOT unique. His nose is major league out of joint. Hope he finds a good plastic surgeon to put it back in place. I recieved my hardcopy of Mr. U and the FBG in the mail today. I was so excited to see it. Call me old-fashioned or just old but there is something about seeing it in hardcopy. Thank you and thank you for finishing it. As you can see, we needed it. I needed it. Congratulations. I can hardly wait for Miss Self-Sufficient. Natalie, what you have created here is exceptionally special. While I’ve read countless self-help books (yours are by far the best), it is the personal testimony via this blog of countless incredible folks who identify with what you write. It is reassuring to know that I’m not crazy or unique, just an unavailable FBG. What a relief! You should be very proud of what you have created. I’m extremely grateful.
Rubytuesday: After I read all the comments, I realized I don’t feel the least bit flattered regarding his poking around. Back in the day, I thought his “hey, miss you” texts meant that he missed me. NOT! He missed getting his ego and other things stroked. In fact, it feels degrading to think that I used to be “flattered” by being an option. Natasha hit it out of the park: “My back pocket is feeling a little light sister, please give up the info so I can slither away content that you’re still around.” Now, what in the world could be flattering about that? I’m no longer on his 90 day lay-away plan. There is no clearing the air with stinky turds. You just gotta keep flushing ’till they go down. Ignore him and stay NC.
Okay, I’m going to go flush again.
Yes! This post just makes me so happy. I got a text 2 days ago “hey stanger”
Didn’t fall for it, don’t feel guilty for not responding because it was so transparent. Thank you Natalie.
Jaysus Madeleine that’s a lame text if ever there was one. Lame AND lazy!
In his mind, you’re either going to be together on his terms or apart on his terms.
Oh this is so true.
We agreed to be friends after the break up.
Now I see it is/was a friendship on his terms and he doesn’t need to anything because I am so busy doing everything even if months go by and we haven’t communicated he knows 1) I will be the one to crack and ask him how he is or 2) He will communicate with me and know the response will be positive.
So of course he doesn’t need to do a thing, I do it all for him and his ego is stroked.
Why I haven’t seen that of course the friendship will be all on his terms since pretty much the whole relationship was conducted on his terms is beyond me.
I still think part of my struggle with this whole issue is facing the complete truth about how the relationship really was, a from of denial, yes we were friends and had a great relationship look our friendship still works to this day and its over a year now since we spilt. DENIAL on my part.
The friendship does not work, but in his and my mind it does DENIAL.
I too feel like an ass clown someone unable to truly commit to no contact also keeping tabs in his life, I am as guilty as him.
Tulipa,
I have an ex EUM who likes to run our so called friendship on his terms, just like he did when we were together. I can so relate to what you are saying cos i break contact when i dont hear from him, and he knows he can reley on me to do that. I dont know why i do it, I dont like doing it cos it derails me, and i feel like a fool cos it takes me backwards again.
If we do see each other its all about what he wants and usually thats a shag, which i have given him (stupid me). Now i want to stop the whole catching up and friend thing cos its getting me down and im not being treated with love and respect at all. We are not real friends, he is just an ex who knows im weak sometimes and give in to him and he uses that to his advantage.
Julie, you’re working off the whole “*This* time will be different” and taking the whole friends help one another out and do stuff for one another to a whole new level. Shagging isn’t a part of friendship and this is all based on him taking advantage. As long as you keep doing what he expects, he still has power over you.
Well it’s more that you’re unavailable Tulipa, as he is. Really it’s about exercising some self control because you and him have been back and forth so many times. I’ll put it this way – if it were that great, you’d either still be together or you’d have both healed, moved on and been able to have a decent friendship if it’s what you both wanted. The behaviour on both of your parts isn’t that of two people who have a great friendship never mind a relationship. You’re being like a dog with a bone. You have to decide what on earth it is that you’re avoiding that pissing around with him looks like a more attractive alternative.
Nat:
“You have to decide what on earth it is that you’re avoiding that pissing around with him looks like a more attractive alternative.”
This is so true Nat! – they are an avoidance tactic. When we are pissing around with these flip-flappers we have to take stock of what it is about ourselves and our own lives that we are avoiding – cos we are, for sure, avoiding something or we wouldn’t be giving these “relatiosnhips” the time of day. For me, recognising what I was avoiding and then facing it was the hardest part of letting my long-term flip-flapping “relationship” finally go. I’m not sure I like what I’m left with yet but thanks to you and BR I don’t see “him” as a viable or even attractive alternative anymore.
Thank you Natalie – that’s the wake-up call I needed as well: ‘what on earth it is that you’re avoiding that pissing around with him looks like a more attractive alternative’.
I spent much of last night having panic attacks and – oddly – hugely itchy skin, because I had to face some really bad shit about myself: here goes – childhood sexual and emotional abuse by my mother (so hard to say that one, but I have never said it out loud before), absent distant unkind father, horror teens, years of medicated depression, my first long-term relationship which was a horrible bipolar world of joy and sharing paired with domestic violence and drama; the very public breakup of our engagement and my utter humilitation.
I realised that I have wasted years of my life hiding in imaginary one-sided relationships, because it was easier and safer than going out there and getting hurt again. And the whole business with the ex is just another extension of that; it’s the same old territory. No wonder it felt ‘right’.
At the moment I’m trying to decide whether to try a dating site or not. I have had bad experiences in the past, but the eternal optimist within says ‘Oh what the heck; you won’t meet anyone sitting at home’. This challenge to myself has brought out a HUGE amount of commitment phobia and angst.
The other thing I have to think about seriously is whether I am really capable of having a one-to-one relationship with someone of the opposite sex, or whether – given the emotional damage within, even after many years of processing – I should just stick with making good friends and having as happy and loving a life as I can as a single person.
Yikes. Talk about big decisions. Some days you just shouldn’t get out of bed, should you?
So yes, you’re right – the ex is just the tip of the iceberg of a whole pile of issues, some addressed, some still banging on the inner door.
Thank you Natalie, for helping me with this, even if you didn’t realise it!
PJM
I’ve been through exactly the same. I didn’t put the childhood issues behind me until this year and I’m 46. Time will tell if it “sticks”. I really do feel as though I’ve turned a corner though. It took a combination of baggage reclaim and ten months of counselling.
Until you really deal with these issues, I’d be wary to date. It all just comes out again when you’re in a sexual relationship – the fuzzy boundaries, the intimacy issues, the need to escape, the fear – even if he’s a good guy. So Lord knows what would happen if you bump into a bad one.
Can a parent visit upon a child such pain and suffering that it takes them decades to process it? Absolutely. And it only gets compounded by crap relationships. Still, some people never get past it, and I’m grateful that I have. And so will you.
You’re being like a dog with a bone. You have to decide what on earth it is that you’re avoiding that pissing around with him looks like a more attractive alternative.
I have asked myself that question since he dumped me.
I truly don’t know, I get extremely frustrated with myself that I keep digging the bone up after I tell myself let it go, I have all the infomation I need he is not interested in a friendship with me and yet there I am with my bone.
I do know one day I will be rid of the bone I have done it before and I can do it again.
PJM
I wish you all the best on your journey, I’m very sorry for what you have been through. Your post gave me some insight into me too so thank you.
Hi PJM, I’ve been meaning to come back to your comment. You have been through a lot and not only are you so very strong but you always have some wisdom to share with readers. It’s very hard to admit pain from our childhoods, especially when it’s our mothers. It’s the first bond you made in your life PJM and you’d be forgiven for expecting to be taken care of, nurtured, protected. When that doesn’t happen, it’s a horrible abandonment. I would focus on working out where you are in terms of your past. You may already be on your way to separating yourself from it and making peace with it, or you may want and need to do a little work. It’s good to be an optimist but make sure you resolve how you feel about you and your experiences before you go back out there again, especially with online dating which does require a bit more strength and alertness than when you’re ‘on foot’. It’s also important to get to the point of believing that you’re capable of a one-to-one relationship because when you don’t believe in you and what you’re capable of, it will reflect inadvertently in your choices. Don’t necessarily focus on a ‘big decision’ – focus on doing good stuff for you day by day and working through your past so that it’s more of an organic process of becoming ready because it’s just a natural extension of your improved confidence.
Wow! I had an ex several years ago that did this to me. In fact the popping in back and forth lasted much longer than the original relationship. It kept me from going through the work of healing from the relationship and moving on. This could be why I had so much trouble this time around. The ex who dumped me in July hasn’t tried to get in touch in any way for 3 months. He seems perfectly fine letting me think he’s an a-hole.
This may be the only decent thing he’s done for me, which he is probably doing more for himself. We live in the same neighborhood and I haven’t even seen him drive by in his car. It makes me curious…but not curious enough to find out what he’s up to.
What’s the longest amount of time that can pass before they come around again? I have to admit, I have a perverse desire to ignore a text or let the phone ring once or twice and send the call to voice mail. Considering how badly the relationship ended part of me thinks that if he never tries to poke around again then I was never really that important. I know, I know, focus more on me.
…”part of me thinks that if he never tries to poke around again then I was never really that important”
I feel that way. Dumb I know. I see him all the time (mutual friend situation), so I guess this really has changed our post breakup process bc i had to see him, and just ugh added stress since I couldnt just get rid of him, or knowing all his business bc it was in my face. Had the breakup, then I faked being ok and friendly, then the ex sex, then the lies, then….the new gf! I always have this stupid feeling of envy when I see women post about their exes contacting them. I feel like he left, and will never look back…which I know, I know..it is what i should hope!
…”part of me thinks that if he never tries to poke around again then I was never really that important”
yup.
It can be any time! My ex AC has recently started pestering me with late night phone calls after THREE MONTHS of total NC. He leaves messages begging me to answer saying ‘it’s important’. It just makes me laugh, he is a textbook case as described above. He doesn’t care at all, he just wants to know I’m still around for an ego stroke. The second I reply or show any interest he’ll back off. I can’t believe I nearly lost my mind over such an idiot!
Yep Kat – you know that someone doesn’t mean any good when they wait 22 to 23 hours of the day before they call you….
Donna, not calling has nothing to do with importance and I think just as it’s childish when a man reaches out to a woman, gets a response and then promptly ignores or strings out responding and ignoring, it’s also childish for you to do the same thing. That’s not to say that having the thoughts to do so is unnatural – quite the opposite – but we also have to question the validity of slagging off people, men in particular for being unavailable and then doing what they do. I’d also say that it’s a life wasted to basically lay in wait on the off chance that you have the opportunity to blank him.
Let me say it again – not chasing you up has nothing to do with importance. It’s called 1) fear of conflict and 2) fear of expectations and sometimes it’s 3) remembering what the last time was like and possibly believing that their bridges are burnt.
Fact is, while many of these Mr Unavailables appear to run from the same pack and playbook, it’s not the most insane thing on earth to believe that no woman would surely want a guy who acted like a complete asshole, broke up via text, hurled himself into something else pronto to make himself feel like the big man, ditched you after a miscarriage, to get in touch?
He may think you have more self-esteem than you actually do.
You’re right. I don’t want to sink to his level of behavior. Better to believe in karma than to try and get revenge. Still working on gettin the self esteem to acceptable levels. I love the way you retold his part of the relationship. Succinct and accurate. I need to remember it that way whenever I feel weak.
I see my future faker AC every single day when he picks up or drops off our daughter. Boy has that made it difficult to get over him. He sent me an email from work kicking me out of our home when the baby was 5 1/2 months old. Since that day, he has acted like nothing happened and I never had any reason to be upset with him EVER. He is so unaware of the damage he did to me it is EERIE (lost weight, lost my hair, devastated for 6 months at least). Kicking me out with a new baby (that we planned for)…NO BIGGIE in his AC world! Even a week later, still traumatized by the shock of it all, he is wondering why I’m acting cold and angry towards him. He used my “anger” to justify what he did apparently on a whim. It appears it was supposed to be no big deal for me either and I’m still supposed to think he’s Mr. Wonderful. It’s been just over a year…a very hard year of healing for me and continuing emotional manipulation by him…and he still lingers in my porch daily making conversation when I just want him to pick up our daughter and get the hell out of my house ASAP! He has a new girlfriend too, but he’s still doing stuff like offering to buy me a family gym membership. I guess it makes him feel like a good guy to act like things are honky dory between us. He still asks for favors even though I say NO over and over and over again. He still thinks I’m here to run around for him. I’ve decided I’ve been too nice lately…letting him come in and make his small talk. Time to tell him something is burning on the stove or that I have to scoop the cat litter…anything to remind him that no WE’RE NOT BUDDIES and the only reason I have anything to do with him is out of fairness to my beautiful daughter!
“he’s still doing stuff like offering to buy me a family gym membership. I guess it makes him feel like a good guy to act like things are honky dory between us. ”
OMG, Natasha that is outrageous. He can be father of the year and it still wouldn’t make him a decent guy to you or any less of a user, immature, cold hearted AC. I wouldn’t give him the satisfaction of letting him do anything for me. He just wants to alleviate his conscience. You sound very strong and your daughter will benefit greatly from seeing her mom enforce these boundaries.
Natasha
When you both needed him the most he kicked you out via a text message .That is terrible ! He also has a new girlfriend.It is so difficult when there are children involved.Try to stay strong.
“Know your worth,and never settle for less than you deserve.”
I dont understand why these man dont understand why we get angry…when they cheat, vanish, dumper us via text/phone, make us leave our home….etc etc etc, you name it. They do the most awful things, that really cause damage…then just wanna hit that reset button like all is fine. Every time I see my ex, and he says hi…i politely say hi back, but i wanna be like “why the f are you sayin hi to me”. Like your behavior towards me disgusts me, i dont care how many months it has been! Ugh, morons.
Shortee,
They don’t get it because we are responsive to them. By responding in any manner, it shows that their behavior is OK. We are half of the problem.
They do understand why you get angry but they hope that by pressing the rest button that they can rid themselves of it. When we’re still chasing them for validation, being nice to them, shagging them etc, it means that however angry we may claim we are or we are expected to be, we’re not *that* angry.
What a creep. Which one of his relationship personalities is he bringing out today? I’ll tell you what he’s doing – all this cosying up to you, trying to be nicey nice etc is not only to convince himself that he’s not the arsehole who abandoned you in that horrendous way, but it’s also to show he’s new girlfriend, that for now, he’s Mr Decent. While it’s not unknown for women to get involved with men who abandon their kids and partners, cheat etc, there’s plenty of women who would see it as a major code red that he had behaved in that way and flush him. Someone can’t claim they’re decent while having ‘abandoned girlfriend and baby by kicking them out via email’. He probably thinks he’s even erased that misdemeanor. I wouldn’t give him the steam off my pee. Being civil isn’t the same as being friendly.
My ex-EUM is my daughter’s dad too, and yes, I firmly and truly believe every single thing he says and does with regard to me (we’re great friends according to him) and my daughter (he is the greatest father ever according to him) is to IMPRESS other women – in other words – it helps get him laid…
So glad we can help. *LOL*
As always, good stuff.
“Unfortunately, as Fallback Girls, we’re inclined to see poking around as something flattering – we think it’s a reflection of his feelings and inability to resist us. Be under no illusions – he’s poking around to maintain The Status Quo. Nothing more, nothing less.”
It doesn’t flatter me at all. 😐 I don’t think that it ever did, to be honest. To me, it’s a disgusting invasion of privacy. I’m a very private person, so that insults my sensibilities and infuriates me. The on-and-off-again guy did that – asking people about me, manipulating one of them to get information about me, an ex-friend willingly gave him private information – and he may still do it for all I know; I mentioned on here 1 or 2 posts ago that he added me on a social media website without my knowledge. I was very angry when I found out & removed him immediately. I’ve even thought about deleting my blogs because he’s that much of a sneaky slimy grimy dirtbag snake. So – going back to the main point of this post – I can’t really understand how or why people are flattered by this shady manipulative asshole behavior. It’s an invasion of privacy, complete disregard of boundaries, and complete disrespect of the person. Infuriating.
Gonna end here so that I don’t end the day with a damn headache.
I agree it’s invasive. Asking about you behind your back is akin to coming inside your house and going through your stuff without you knowing it. It’s a personal violation of your space. Of you.
Honestly, my deal now with any future guys is “You’re either in, or you’re out.” In or out. It’s really that simple. You want to be exclusive, try it on for size? Nobody’s talking marriage but no more of this screwing someone if they can’t be exclusive. So they’re either in, or out.
But this crawling back into your life, via your friends, or these social websites, or trying to play the casual card in a phone call – that’s not “in or out.” That’s a freaking game, and it’s no longer acceptable to me.
Look at what came in my e-mail this morning.
_____________________
(ex-boyfriend@___.com sent by ooVoo)
Hello,
Check this out!!!
I’m using ooVoo for face-to-face video calls and I would really like you to see how it works.
It’s easy to use and the video quality is amazing.
You can download ooVoo here.
What is ooVoo?
With ooVoo, you can connect with anyone, anytime, with video calls, video messages, phone calls, text and more. Use ooVoo to get in touch with people you can’t meet in person (and save travel time and money!).
ooVoo makes life easier and more fun.
See you on ooVoo!
(ex-boyfriend)
_____________________
First the dirtbag on LinkedIn, now my ex here. The ex was my best relationship, but still… we no longer speak and this is unnecessary, especially since he KNOWS my boundaries.
My life for the fucking win today. 😐
(Don’t worry, it’s already deleted. I don’t play or appreciate these games, as you can see from my previous comment. Just went into the trash folder so you could see an example of this bullshit. Completely & utterly disrespectful.)
Block, block, block! They’re just chancing their arm!
“You want to be exclusive, try it on for size? Nobody’s talking marriage but no more of this screwing someone if they can’t be exclusive. So they’re either in, or out. ” Amen Molly.
Yep, I’m not remotely flattered by it either Spinster. I got wise to it after a few exes did it and it actually made me feel ill sometimes, especially when they were very persistent. I’ve found that exes getting in touch has dropped off over the past 2-3 years, probably because they’ve Googled my name or even seen me on Facebook and realised that not only am I very much moved on, but they’ve also been valuable research. *snigger*
Just keep blocking the mofo’s. Don’t stress yourself – even the most shameless have to give in sometime so being blocked and blanked will rid them.
‘seen me on Facebook and realised that not only am I very much moved on, but they’ve also been valuable research. *snigger*’
Natalie you do have the ultimate revenge….LOL
Done & Done. 😐
I didn’t sleep well the night before so this annoyed me even more than it usually would. I slept much better last night. Gmail doesn’t have a block feature, but it allows filters such that any mail that a person doesn’t want to see, can be deleted without the person’s knowledge. That’s what I did with The Snake with the 11 year relationship, a few former friends & family members and, sad to say, what I’ll have to do with Good-Relationship-But-Doesn’t-Get-It (the ooVoo invite). Oh well. *shrugs*
Ladies (and gentlemen): if you use Gmail and didn’t know about the filters, now you know. There’s NO reason why you should see or answer any bullshit e-mails from assclown exes or former friends.
Natalie’s book is an astonishingly accurate portrayal of these EUMs.
I broke up with a classic, textbook EUM 10 months ago, because I finally got fed up with the lack of progess in the relationship, his keeping me a secret, the hot/cold/lukewarm efforts, and his inability to commit to planning for next week, nevermind next year. A sweet, loving man, just one who is crippled by an inability to commit (and I now see clearly that in choosing him to date, I must be EU, too).
Since then — and as much as he’s was unable to commit to being WITH me — he has been unable to stick to leaving me alone, either. Very true to form. I have gone NC for weeks at a time only to have him ramp up the phone calls and texts (which I studiously ignore), and then in a desperate seemingly panicky bid to get my attention he will show up on my doorstep, unnanounced, with flowers or a gift (and I don’t answer the door, so he is forced to leave them on the stoop).
Periodically, I will break NC for the sheer purpose of telling him point-blank I am not responding to any attempts at friendship, and he knows damned well why. Then I start the NC clock again.
I am now seeing someone else, so it has not kept me from moving on. But it’s an odd, predictable, pattern with these guys.
Thanks, Natalie, for spelling it out so clearly for us. Otherwise, I’d be tempted to see it as flattering proof of how much I still mean to him. Now I know that it means precisely nothing.
PS. In a rare glimpse of the underlying reality that Natalie preaches about with these guys:
This EUM keeps asking me if I “miss him”. I never answer (as it’s irrelevant), but ask him why it’s important for him to know. He said “if you still miss me, then I know there’s a chance I can still come back some day”.
Translation: Part ego stroke, part keeping-his-options-open.
Flush!
““if you still miss me, then I know there’s a chance I can still come back some day”. And there you have it. Flush indeed!
Predictable,
I would get a restraining order. This is clearly harassment.
HowPredictable (great name). Your ex is a clown. He’d want to get off the crack and take a hint. That’s not flattering behaviour – it’s major boundary busting. He has no right to attempt to control your agenda and breeze his way back in. Ugh!
Hi! I’ve tried writing this on three different psots and none have been published. I’m hoping that this one will be because it does relate to the friendship post.
Like I briefly said before, after 10 mos of no contact, I kept seeing him around lately ( thinkin this was cosmic) and then on Monday I bumped into him face to face and had to say something. We discussed our break up and also went for coffee over it. ( I know suck and see it) He was acting like a gentlemen but turned everything around on me stating that I have misinterpreted things wrong, and he really didnt’ care. We were friends who were getting to know each other and not really in a relationship yet. I pointed out mistakes to him and he yelled at me to get out of the car and said we were over and even at that point friendship wasn’t on offer.
I took the rejection really bad and sent many malicious texts. I know my behaviour is appauling..but i was hurting. I’m back into NO contact but this is the 5th time I’ve done this. The previous ones he’s come back and this time we bumped into each other. He has moved on and I got no responses to my texts.
I did originally say I wanted his friendship back, and now even that’s not on offer. It was on offer but I told him he really didn’t mean it but it was lip service. I feel back in my rut again and I’m quite upset. I really need help again. A few questions, I know I did the wrong thing by sending malicious texts but did I do the wrong thing by wanting his friendship back but also knowing that i didn’t want it cuz it wasn’t real.
I feel like I’m going crazy.
If you take responsibility for why you wanted to be his “friend,” I think it will be easier to deal with. You wanted validation. There is no healthy reason why you would want to be friends with someone who has jerked you around. No Contact forever is the only way to not feel crazy.
Jupiter is right! You wanted validation.
I remember telling my brother something about the ex, it was pretty awful. I told him that I wanted to continue with a friendship- needed to hold on-he asked, “do friends treat one another this way.” I know this sounds very simple, but he was right, friends do not treat one another this way. Do you allow the other people in your life to disrespect you in this manner, if not, then why allow him to?
If we do not love and respect ourselves, no one else will.
I agree that NC is the only way to sanity especially when it’s so easy for you to get pulled back in. There’s no friendship there. He treated you like shit and blamed you for everything. What kind of friend is that?
Anari, this is some Dynasty levels of drama right here and I think it’s time to get off the Relationship Crack. Fast. You’re getting high on confrontations and engaging with him. It’s like all attention is attention to you but this is *negative* attention. You’re also being provocative and it’s like on one hand you’re seeking validation that you’re friend worthy and then you’re saying and doing stuff that you end up validating negative things about yourself with. There ain’t nothin’ cosmic about keeping seeing him around. Don’t bother counting any magpies, checking your horoscopes, fannying away your money on psychics or listening to anymore shite advice from your mates because you’ve gone off to slaughter off the back of this BS.
What the frick do you want this man’s friendship for? Don’t be beg-a-friend. The man isn’t behaving like a friend nor is he worthy of being your friend. You’re not that desperate and all you’re doing by doing Dynasty episodes 1 through 5 is inadvertently giving him a legitimate reason to think that he’s justified for behaving as he did. Stop. Have some self-control. Get some extra professional support if needed but it’s time to quit crack. It doesn’t suit you and you’re better than this.
” Don’t be a beg a friend”… Love it. I get it. I get it. I just chose not to control myself I was sooo angry at everything he said. And so jealous that someone else gets his friendship and that he can be a better person to someone else. I’m seeking validation. I know. Thank you so much for the support everyone. No contact day 3… again.
Hey Anari, you aren’t going crazy. You are just a FBG. “I feel back in my rut again and I’m quite upset.” It happened to me too when I fell off the NC wagon and did the “suck it and see”. Get back on the NC wagon. I’ve been an avid reader of this blog for 10 months and I don’t recall a single post of a FBG who fell of the NC wagon and it worked out. It’s okay. If you can, it is amazing how validating it is to block, delete, defriend, and otherwise cut the AC/EUM/MM out of cyberspace communication. It took me a while, but once I figured out how to do it and got the balls to do it, I couldn’t contact him when I was feeling nostalgic or screamy meammy angry because I couldn’t figure out how to unblock, undelete, or friend him. And unless he pulls a sneaky, sneaky (which the ex cockroach has done) by emailing from a new address or calling from a blocked number, you are done with the cosmic, cyberspace connection. It’s hard but he isn’t your friend. I wouldn’t want your ex as my friend. Hopefully, my ex won’t try to be your friend either. Just own the humilation, feel the hurt and pain, and move on. There’s no other way. He’s not your friend.
Hi Runnergirl,
I’ve read several of your posts about being the OW to a MM and have been in the same boat myself….for 3 years now. I’ve even posted on “Return of the childhood Sweetheart” about this last year. It all started 3 years ago…after we went our separate ways 15 years ago after dating a few months. He led off with the I’ve missed you and things about you, blah blah, and I fell for it, went to see him (he lives in another country), you can guess what happened there, then had my heart broken after I returned….when he decided to ignore me and my texts for several months later. This happened two years in a row!! Now, I’m carrying the “friend card” not sure why, maybe because I’m hoping he’ll eventually feel the way about me that I do him. Which I know is wrong because he is married. I just thought it was possible since we had a history. As a “friend” (I guess, we’ve never discussed what we are), he initiates texts with me and we go back and forth ALL day EVERY day while he’s at work. Of course, I don’t hear from him at night or on weekends when he’s not working. He only talks to be about sports or to jokingly insult about my country’s faults. We basically just banter. I’ve been holding onto this as a “connection” since it was all I had, but now the “joking insults” and bantering aren’t funny anymore (because I want more than friendship..I wanted validation I guess that I meant something) and now I want to just forget about him. But, not having me in his life even as a “friend” makes me almost physically sick. I’ve spent WAY too much time, effort, and mental stability haha thinking and worrying over this situation. It hurts so bad knowing I’m in love with someone who doesn’t love me back or can’t even say it. Btw, I asked “How do you feel about me?” and he said “I’m not sure of my feelings to be honest.” Ugh…this is after us carrying on for 3 years!! Just last year he told me he could definitely love me..but can’t imagine saying that to someone else right now due to his current situation. Can you please tell me how you finally went NC and decided to not even be his friend anymore??? Thanks so much to you and ANYONE for any help given!!!
“When he’s in ‘investigative mode’, he’s looking for clues either from you or third party sources that 1) you haven’t moved on, 2) you’re still the person he thought you were, and 3) that you’re still an option.”
Yep he tried that – didn’t really look at it that way because it was through a third party and honestly thought the mutual friend was wanting to rekindle OUR friendship at the time. But looking back – yeah he knew she was coming to a party at my house – she told me she told him… why would I care – read as red flag.
So what did he learn – 1) yes I moved on 2) I am NOT that woman anymore and 3) never an option.
So have I heard from the mutual friend since then (June this year) despite my attempts at communication – no – not even a happy birthday – further evidence that it was a fishing expedition not a true attempt at rekindling a friendship. Kind of sad… I liked her but true colors have a way of showing themselves if you keep your eyes open. Not a Fallback girl or a Fallback friend either.
Harem member she is. Blankety-blank her. You don’t need to keep up with any ties between you, not least someone who is reporting back and shit stirring. I think some people Movedup, get off on running interference – getting high on people’s reactions and the possibility of Other People’s Drama.
I think you are right on target on that one. She is really into Other People’s Drama. She did give me some horrifying information that I actually needed to know about as a forewarning – hidden video cameras found all over his house including bedroom thou no videos were found of me – videos of himself masturbating (who does that? another story) but still thought I needed to know. It did turn my world upside down for awhile. We didn’t talk about it after the party – I just sent out my geek squad which turned up nothing. If anything ever comes up I will just take it to the police and let them deal with it. To be a part of someone’s private collection is just disturbing – makes me even more grateful I am long gone from that situation. Goes to show how pathetic he really is. Still hasn’t stopped me from moving forward and enjoying my life. I didn’t react all that much when she told me other than what a turd – how pathetic is that and laughed. Guess she didn’t get the drama from me she thought she would – so no drama fix here. I am NOT that woman anymore… Flush!
This happens to men as well. I was a Fallback Guy for about two years, being the friend who didn’t judge her decision to stay in a rotten relationship, and then being the guy who was available to fill in the gap when she finally had enough of that relationship. Both times we started “dating” occurred right after she broke up with another man (the same guy both times). I don’t think she could handle being alone for long stretches, since she basically hadn’t been single for any significant period her entire adult life.
I will say that the dynamics of our relationship as a whole were a bit different than what Natalie describes above. She blew hot and cold as a friend, and was obviously in rebound mode when I dated her, always needing to deal with the past, but trying to hold on to me with half measures. I doubt she did much “poking around” – it was more random popping up with a “hey, how are you?” after weeks, sometimes even months of silence.
The tricky thing about these relationships is that things work enough that it seems like you could move to the next step with the person. Our friendship was decent and we got along pretty well. But the reality – and it really sunk in when we dated the second time around – was that she always was maintaining moving walls and blocks around emotional intimacy. Which turned into walls and blocks around sexual intimacy as well when we dated. No matter how honest and open I was – either as a friend or lover – she was usually holding back, or spinning things in a manner that allowed her to dodge deeper level conversations.
I’m kind of convinced that until you stand up for yourself in situations like this, and in most cases, move on from the person in question, you’ll keep attracting the same kind of situation with a different person.
“I’m kind of convinced that until you stand up for yourself in situations like this, and in most cases, move on from the person in question, you’ll keep attracting the same kind of situation with a different person.”
Agreed.
Totally Nathan – I have a lot of male readers. While the book is about Mr and Miss, the posts are generally gender neutral as the readership isn’t purely women or even purely heterosexual relationships. You’re also correct about standing up for yourself – emotional backbone is a forcefield that keeps out people that thrive on you not standing up for yourself and having shag all boundaries.
Ahhh so many home truths in this excerp. I’ve just recommenced no contact with an ex-MM who I foolishly kidded myself I was ‘friends’ with for the last few years because I felt after a previous nine months of no contact that I’d got control of the whole situtation and my emotional state.
So we’d have friendly chats, txt occasionally and meet up for coffee when in the same city. But I finally realised it was still preventing me from moving on and he was still emotionally manipulating me. I got to the point where I just didn’t want to speak to him any more. It struck me that I added so much to his life where he added very little to mine and in fact was holding me back from living mine. Remaining ‘friends’ with him made him feel better about all the hurt he caused and the lies he told me. It validated his sense that he’s still a good person – despite all the shitty stuff he’s done/is doing to me and his wife. Maybe it even allows him to justify what he’s doing because he can use the excuse of ‘fatalistic love’ and such a strong connection to conveniently forget that it’s still a conscious choice he’s making.
I recently spent the weekend in his city and although we’d talked about catching up I just didn’t want to see him or speak to him so I ignored all his calls. When I finally got home I decided I needed to ring him to prevent him (cause he wouldn’t stop calling) and the conversation thankfully made me so angry it only firmed my resolve. I told him ‘I’ve reached the point where I can’t do this any more’ and he proceeded to say he was surprised I didn’t want to catch up – that if he was in my town he’d always want to make the time to see me and have coffee as ‘friends’. As though he would be doing me a favour! I told him that we aren’t friends – that you don’t have to hide a friendship from your wife and everyone else in your life.
He then went on to say that he’s always said I’m a good person who politely responds to calls etc, but that having ignored his calls all weekend if I hadn’t called him back that day he would have had to start wondering if he was a poor judge of character. Total manipulation. This is what they do – turn it back around on YOU and try to make you amend your behaviour to prove you are not a rude person who ignores calls etc. Lucky I’m a pro at recognising this for what it is and told him if he’s prepared to change his opinion of me so quickly after five years then he doesn’t know me at all.
Ladies – recognise the emotional manipulation for what it is, think about what you add to their life but honestly consider if there’s anything they add to yours. I’m sure you’ll find the answer is NO.
Danielle, I read “He then went on to say that he’s always said I’m a good person who politely responds to calls etc, but that having ignored his calls all weekend if I hadn’t called him back that day he would have had to start wondering if he was a poor judge of character.” and mentally called him the C word which I don’t like to use very often but…. Don’t ever speak to this manipulative man ever again. I’d have said “I’ve clearly misjudged you too. I had been thinking to myself that surely when we meet up that you’ll apologise for the X,Y,Z that you’ve done, but I’ve clearly misjudged you too. See ya!”
Nat that is pretty funny. When I first found out that this man was married (8 months after meeting him) and told my friends that word did the rounds quite loudly!
You are right though – he was excellent at this kind of emotional manipulation and would often talk about my qualities which would of course only make me feel guilty if I was considering behaviour that contradicted his portrayal of me.
And despite always apologising for his behaviour and repeating that he would never intentionally hurt me I reinforced that it was ok for him to pay this lip service and neglect to follow it up with real action by continuing to be involved with him.
I think ultimately everyone in this situation needs to think to themselves = if any of my friends treated me this way would I continue to be their friend? I just stop interacting with ‘friends’ who exhibit dodgy behaviour so to accept it from somehow who professes to love you is ludicrous.
I hadn’t heard from my AC MM for about a week until last Saturday night when he sent me an e-mail. He wrote, “Here’s what’s been going on” and proceeded list the reasons why he hadn’t been in touch (went off his depression meds, in-laws are nosy, is under surveillance at work , oh, and goes to Lodges 3 nights a week. He said that he missed me and that he wanted to talk to me about a few things, and that he worried that I didn’t trust him, listen to him or believe him (oh, and why wasn’t I playing on-line Scrabble with him?). Foolishly, perhaps, I wrote him back a day later, said a few things, and basically told him that I can’t discuss things anymore via e-mail. If he wants to talk, he needs to make an effort and do it in person. I know, I know, he’s married and I don’t expect much, if anything. And I realize the futility of getting the last word in. But he hasn’t responded to my e-mail and once again, I feel furious and hurt (yes, I know he’s married – it still hurts, though). What is he playing at?? And why can’t I get over him?
Oops, Amy – sounds like the fallout from having bothered to answer his text. Sounds like you were basically saying you want to see him in person. If I were an AC that would be proof enough to me that you are still into me. No biggie, though. Just don’t answer next time. Focus on the fact that he. is. married.
You can’t get over him because you are not No Contact.
Amy
You can’t get over him because you’re allowing him to play you like a fiddle.
Of course he doesn’t want to meet you. A married man does not contact another woman to be nagged and told how bad he is. He gets enough of that at home. You’re supposed to be his light relief. If you’re not prepared to play that role (hint: you shouldn’t) then leave him alone and get on with your own life. And ignore him.
Heartache,
I agree you can’t get over him because you keep picking at the wound (talking to him). I also received a list of reasons/excuses via email as to why my EUM could not call. And he is married. In the time he would write me (and yours would write you), he could have taken that very same time to punch in some digits on a phone and ring me. But no. He decided to pour out this long list of what he does through out most days that keeps him from being able to call. He forgot to mention in there that he can’t quite tell his wife he’s going to call this “friend” for a chat. Heck his wife may be the jealous type. I would be too if I knew my husband was asking a woman for her phone number and had feelings for her once upon a time and she him. But that is just me. I know plenty of people who are married and carry on with exes. It is almost unreal how many of these guys have this common thread. And we end up suffering so much pain over it.
Heartache Amy, I’ve been following your whole story with interest and I must admit some level of bemusement. It reminds me of when I was five and realised that church was not really that holy a place. After standing there listening to the gospel singers and parishioners going crazy singing and dancing and praising the Lord, we got on the coach to go home. Not only did I have to listen to people cussing and carrying on not 5 minutes down the road from the church, but I witnessed a married man and the OW arranging to hook up at the back of the “Lord’s bus”.
If church is so important to you Amy, I suggest you start living by the values. We all make mistakes, especially when vulnerable but stop entertaining this married man.
It’s not that you ‘can’t’ get over him – you have chosen not to because you persist in engaging with this man, mooning over him in the privacy of your own home and wishing he was yours while looking for validation and looking to be the exception. You know he’s married but you think *you’re* different and that you must be very exceptional for this church going man to try and tap ass with a church going woman behind his wife’s back. Stop the madness. Trust me when I say that you’re not the first woman he’s done this with.
You’re right, of course. And how did you know I was mooning over him at home? Yes, I have been, licking my wounds, feeling sorry for myself and feeling angry, too, about how he’s treated me. I know I’m naive but can he really not feel badly about how he’s just blown me off? It’s so hard to fathom, yet, I realize it’s what happens. I never thought it would happen to me. My soon-to-be ex-husband did the same.
Hi Natalie,
I’m curious – how do you know that this guy has done this before? I believe you, but I’m curious as to why you you say this. Not too long ago, he told me that he hadn’t done anything like “this” before, and that he was 99% sure that he wouldn’t do the same to me…
In the case of MM who strike up these “relationships” with women, do their wives ever suspect or are these men so clever as to deceive them, too?
Amy, the other posters have said great things to you. The thing that struck me was the content of the note:
“He wrote, “Here’s what’s been going on” and proceeded list the reasons why he hadn’t been in touch (went off his depression meds, in-laws are nosy, is under surveillance at work , oh, and goes to Lodges 3 nights a week. He said that he missed me and that he wanted to talk to me about a few things, and that he worried that I didn’t trust him, listen to him or believe him..”
He sounds unpleasant, whiny, and borderline paranoid. His in-laws are nosy! He’s under surveillance at work! Wah wah wah, everyone’s out to get him! Even you because you don’t trust his emotionally cheating ass!
It’s not just that you’re pining after a MM. It’s not just that he uses lazy communication to let you know how “busy” he is and that you are not a priority. It’s that he is demonstrably, from his own testimony, a victim-card-playing, accountablity-avoiding, emotionally dysfunctional mess. His worldview involves authority figures who are keeping him down and women who don’t understand him.
You really really don’t want this person in your life. You are lucky he is married and not available. Let his wife, his in-laws, his employer, his lodge members, and his psychiatrist deal with his crazymaking. You get to be free of it!
ixnay,
You’re right. He’s a dysfunctional mess and I played right into it. My counselor said that I go for needy men, and that’s too true. This MM told me that he has to rush right home after work because his wife gets after him if he’s at all late. She also told him what kind of sunglasses he could buy. She definitely rules the roost. I was flabbergasted when he told me these things, yet, even more so when I realized that he was putting up with it all, but acting passive aggressive about it. He’s also on a medication for bipolar disorder/depression that he took himself off of (?why) and fell into a major depression (I hear more whining). I suppose I really should be thankful that his wife has to deal with him, and not me anymore.
Heart ache Amy
here’s what’s been going on:
*He is married*
Did he have that one on his list of ‘why I have neglected you’? I think not.
My guess is Nat knows he’s done this before because he is doing it *now* – it’s who he is – these are his values – he is a cheat and a liar. Yes the wife will suspect, if not right now then later – depends on how long it goes on and how well he covers his tracks. And when she does – you will be history. So make yourself *his* history. Right away. You have your head in the clouds Amy.
I got a text from the ex EUM after six months of total NC.
“Hi! I hope you still remember me! ”
It’s so easy for him to forget that he never bothered to remember me.
Ugh.
These guys. Everyone of them so textbook.
Yep, I’ve had the “remember me?” text! Another classic phrase from the How To Be an EUM/Assclown Playbook, along with “Hi, how are you?” and “I miss our chats” (had those too). Once the penny had dropped that he was just making sure I was still dangling on the piece of string he keeps the rest of his harem on, I just felt annoyed – and that’s when I finally cut all remaining contact 4 months ago. He has tried to break it once so far with another text incorporating some more predictable Reset-Button-pressing lines, hooks referring to our past together and sob-stories about how tough his life is (even trying to use me as a shoulder to lean on without me replying!). Pleased to say I ignored it, which I’m sure he already knew I would.
RadioGirl, one thing I know for sure, there is no way in hell that any person with any decent level of credibility can expect to be taken seriously by trying to creep back in by text. It screams of being lazy.
He always was lazy on the communication front, Natalie, even when we were together – lots of texts and Facebook Chats, but not much in the way of phone calls (massive flag if only I’d thought about it). When he was away for a week or so a couple of times, I was lucky if I got one text every 2 or 3 days, and not once did he phone even though his mobile was obviously working! However, during the last 3 months of the relationship when he was working in Argentina he did call me nearly every day on Skype. But I found out that during those 3 months he was back in frequent touch with exes and other women from his past (harem!), so I’m now thinking it was down to a “guilty conscience”, or else to try and throw me off the scent of his emotional infidelity. Whatever his reasons, he was being a barefaced liar pretending everything was fine between us when in reality it was not. I still feel sick to think of how much leave and money I wasted flying out there to join him – ugh!
Received my signed copy of Mr Unavailable & the Fallback Girl this morning, ordered from Baggage Reclaim via Amazon.co.uk – wow, *superfast* delivery, I’ve never received online goods in the post so quickly!! Really looking forward to reading it 🙂
Hi Magdalena, that text just begs for the response “Er sorry, do I know you?” It’s quite a pathetic text and extremely attention seeking. Who on earth does he think he is?!
Well said.
“Unfortunately, as Fallback Girls, we’re inclined to see poking around as something flattering – we think it’s a reflection of his feelings and inability to resist us. Be under no illusions – he’s poking around to maintain The Status Quo. Nothing more, nothing less.”
Wow – Nat. The AC came to eff with my head two months ago (after a year broken up). I should have left his # blocked, but really didn’t think he would try again. August – I miss you, I love you, I effed up. Just to eff with his head I told him if we got back together it was my terms this time, he agreed, but then I let him have it (the girl who talks too much). That does not really matter much, because if I had not talked too much, he would have just reset the button and we would have been doing the same thing until he found someone that he thought was better than me. I did not let him.
With that being said – I let him eff with my head again. Because I really truly find it hard to believe that there really are people out there who really are that heartless – but geuss what – THERE ARE!!!
You’d better believe it Amy – he’s *shown* you that this is his way. The moment you started entertaining a discussion with him, he knew you were up for negotiation. The key with this stuff is not to entertain someone who has previously treated you in a less than manner because you interacting suggests you’re ‘hopeful’ which for people like him is more than enough. The run-in is a blessing in disguise.
I LOVE this post Nat!
My ex EUM sent an email message (knowing full well that we are NC) stating, “Hi, Long time no hear! I found some shoes and books that you left at my house and just wanted to let you know. If you would like for me to mail them to you, let me know. Hope you are doing good, that life is treating you well, and that you had a great summer.” Twenty-four hours later, one of his best female friends emailed me out of the blue asking if I was busy, implying that she wanted to get together. I ignored her.
Wanting to let him know that I am happy with my life in spite of the fact that he is no longer in it (my own ego stroke) I sent a very brief and aloof email back to the stating that I was doing great, and that life is treating me VERY well. I then asked him to mail the rest of my things, and blocked him and her from being able to contact me in the future.
I should have been suspicious when he broke NC three months prior to that stating that he had found some clothes that I’d left in his closet. I didn’t realize that I’d left the outfit and really wanted it back because I’d bought it when I lived overseas. So I emailed him back and asked him to leave the outfit at an acquaintance’s house where I could pick it up without having to see or interact with him. I also had some things that I needed to give back to him, so it was a good opportunity to do that as well.
When he recently contacted me again about the shoes and books, I realized that he just wanted to snoop around to see what I had been up to.
BLOCK! BLOCK! BLOCK! BLOCK! BLOCK!
Like my late mother used to say, “I can show you better than I can tell you.”
With that said, sometimes life is stranger than fiction. I have had exes reconnect with me as friends, and turned out to be better friends than lovers (one cheated on me and the other, whom I was married to, fell out of love with me and became emotionally distant as a result). They initiated contact and since I was totally over them, I was okay with it.
Oh jeez this guy is very opportunistic and seriously reaching. What’s he going to do next time? “Hey Gina, I found a strand of your hair in the bathroom. I’ll pop by this evening if you like and bring it round.” flush!
Oy. Haven’t read this yet, but I can tell……..it’s got my name and my twenty four (24!) year lover-friendship-survived a 14 year absence-dalliance dance written over all it. Sigh.
I think I may need a glass of wine with this reading. And a big ole furry dog to curl up with. And chocolate chip cookies. Sigh.
Thank you in advance for what I am sure is going to be yet another illuminating, girl-I-need-to-hear it post. xx
Haha Mango – hope it was illuminating!
My ridiculous ex dumped me with the words “let’s stay friends”..I refused laughably for several years. Meanwhile allowing him to come in and out of my life in various ways, for a shag, an ego stroke etc. Slowly the penny has fallen and it has made me laugh to admit to myself that I don’t need or want his friendship. Friends don’t use you.
He was after all a man who when I told him I was pregnant lied to me and told me he was posted to Iraq and was in fact sterile from depleted plutonium shells (whatever they are!!) .
So I came to realise that not being able to let him go was about me not wanting to admit that I made a real mistake on this dipstick, I didn’t respect him and he certainly was not as he portrayed. I was also addicted to the drama, the ups and downs and I suspect so was he. I didn’t even in fact like the guy. When finally I told him I didn’t want his friendship and would take a rain check on that , he then came back with “I have had no problems with talking to you about your problems in life, but so long as you leave out anything about me or how I live my life” So that reads as, you tell me how badly your life is going so I can feel superior whilst keeping a toe hold in your life whilst I will make sure you have no information whatsoever about me. After reminding him that he very rarely asked about my life and our conversations were always about him and that he was not there for me when I needed him, I am hoping we can both see that we are NOT friends and never have been. When you really emotionally grasp that actually whatever you had with this asshole was NEVER about friendship truely that is an epiphany moment. Then you know its absolutely over.
I hope to never hear from him or contact him again. This website has been a lifesaver. but I am now at a point where I am going to stop reading about emotionally unavailable men and focus on keeping an available one in my life. At last I feel I am free and understand how I became addicted to contact with this one person (it never happened before in my life) and how I will recognise toxic relationships and friendships in the future. Healed at last. It’s been five years. A total wasteland of lost opportunities, depression, lost jobs chances and emotional fall out. However its a lesson well learnt and for all those people doing no contact right now persist in doing it.
Josie I must admit that I failed to keep a straight face when I read about the sterile from plutonium shells! What a weasel! You definitely weren’t friends and I’m glad that you finally walked away from him. Yeah it was five years but that’s better than letting this go on forever and ever.
Plutonium or was it uranium…. anyhow it was bollocks! Yes it’s funny now but sure as hell wasn’t at the time! Moreover he had the biggest balls I had ever seen..yep sounds about right!
Basically he was All balls!
Its so funny that towards the end their basically no where to be found and show they dont want to be with you and then want to be friends… I remember doubting myself as one of the responders said, thinking maybe i wasnt being sensible and mature but deep inside i knew it didnt make sense. Its awesome how you can shed light on these issues and have it make so much sense for womsn to identify with this and ultimately have breakthroughs and healing. Ive been following you for the past five years and I always gain something valuable or something to reflect on.
Thanks Gina and I love hearing from long term readers! The whole sensible and mature thing is a crock anyway because people only say you’re being immature or we think we are when the situation presented means us having to sell ourselves short for the benefit of the other person. We’re not on the playground anymore – we don’t have to ‘make friends’ with everyone.
WOW! What perfect timing for this article! I just made the dopiest mistake of all. We are both ( that is the AC and I ) on the same dating website and curiousity got the best of me.. when I saw his profile, I clicked on it! OMG! Now he can see that I was the one being nosy! Oh my gosh- didn’t I feel like the dope. I quickly deleted my profile..now I need to create a new one but alas, I am not really ready to date… that’s another article I have read as well. Just needed the validation that I was still desirable, I guess. But deleting my profile denied him the notification I was looking – thank goodness I was a quick thinker!
Anyway, I managed to come out of that BIG OOPS! unscathed, but some advice to the others.. curiousity can kill the cat – it almost ran down this one. LOL!
I know he has been doing these things to me too. Telling his facebook female harem to comment on his photos about how sexy and handsome he is. His advice to them was ” Make as many comments and likes as you want” that will piss ” someone off” like it’s an ego game. I am guessing that is what it is. I left him, but if he weren’t hurt and angry he would’t be doing this stuff…. anyway. Into third week of of NC ( well except the profile oops ) my bad… I am sure he hasn’t noticed but I know it is the best thing I could do for my esteem. And he has been talking to another woman about me! My god, personal stuff too – yes, like how great the sex was and all that. I will confess, at first I thought his comments and requests were flattering : hey! He is thinkng about hurting me – Oh yay! and of course the nonsense that he left me and yada, yada… indirect contact, if you will.
Look, my opinion is, I would never say evil things in a public forum ( like Facebook ) or in a private conversation – I am way above that, but why is he doing this? To make himself look like the hero, the nice guy – frankly, he is further proving is residence in assclown town. I pity the woman he hooks up with next that wants to live there with him.
Friends my celtic behind. He doesn’t deserve my friendship – never did. And I admit, yes, I am still angry he turned out to be a loser, so I can’t help but wonder, what the hell is he thinkng? saying that stuff…. like it won’t get back to me- which of course it did…. it’s a back door to “keeping me on my toes. Well these toes are movin on!
FinallyCaughtOn, I hope you finally catch on to the fact that he’s baiting you while stoking the flames in his harem. He doth protest too much. No ‘innocent’ person posts that sort of passive aggressive shit on Facebook et al. He might think he looks like a man in demand but he just looks like a prick. It’s a shame these women don’t see it…
Thanks Nat! He does not only LOOK like a prick, he is acting like one and I do realize he is waiting for me to comment, notice, make a snarky remark or whatever. It ain’t happening…… It is just a shame, in all honesty, when you think you know a person and they turn out to be so different from what you thought – even in my wildest dreams, I never imagined he could be so mean – and childish. Unfortunately, these women think if they help him, they’ll get him because he’ll be so gratelful to them and some of these women want him, period. Be careful what you wish for! LOL 🙂
Love this blog – keep it coming! It is really awesome and has kept me from going insane some days!
At the age of 47, I’ve never acted so incredibly ‘dignified’ as I did when the guy for whom I fell madly (it’s a good term, I think) this past summer called me three weeks ago at the school where I teach and told me he didn’t want to see me anymore. I started to break down, said goodbye, and quickly hung up the phone. And, thanks largely to this site, I never once contacted him since, in spite of the fact that later that day, I broke down in front of a student and had to be carried from the building by a friend, in front of the principal. I need not go into the details of the days that have followed. Except for this: I have never before been more emotionally sucker-punched by the fact that twice, quite soon thereafter, he has tried to non-chalantly contact me via text and voice-mail almost feverishly asking if we can be friends, and even “hang out and do fun things together.” Quite tellingly, he almost begged for a response either way. Could you please just text me to buzz off if you’re not into it? No. I can’t. I haven’t. I never will. Because never in my life have I been treated with such unmitigated gaul, such lack of empathy, such selfishness, in all of my life!
The Buddhists have this one dead on: If you want a situation to reveal itself, do nothing. It will take every ounce of discipline you have. But in the end, regardless of the ensuing pain, it will invariably lead to a time of great awakening.
My heart is with all of you. This really is our life’s work. My great mentor, Buddhist author Susan Piver, says it like this: We cannot strategize when it comes to love. All we can do is welcome it when it comes into our lives, and mourn its loss when it leaves.
Jaysus Kmac, how awful. I loved this “The Buddhists have this one dead on: If you want a situation to reveal itself, do nothing. It will take every ounce of discipline you have. But in the end, regardless of the ensuing pain, it will invariably lead to a time of great awakening.” Preach!
He doesn’t deserve an ounce of your time. The remotest discussion with him will let the silly twat think that his behaviour isn’t that bad because you’re willing to talk to him. Grieve but don’t give him so much as the steam off your pee. That is a despicable way to treat you and what you are showing him is that you’re not that woman that he can treat like that. Take care of you.
Kmac,
I had a BING!! moment when I read “The Buddhists have this one dead on: If you want a situation to reveal itself, do nothing. ” It hit me and thank you for sharing that. That helps. Makes me think of having silent strength.
I wish I had not done/said a thing last year when my ex wanted to break up with me. Instead I acted like a looney fool (we had been together over 4 years). If I had just kept quiet and let him do what he wanted to do, it may have turned out differently.
You are so welcome, Colororange! This is the first time I have ever been able to keep from reacting after a break-up, and for some reason, this one left me reeling beyond compare. This is such progress for me. I know that had I sent a drunken e-mail, or responded to his selfish attempts to get me to assuage his guilt by offering him a little lollipop of “friendship” to suck on it would have taken much longer for his true colors to show, draining my precious energy even further than it has been already.
The power of doing nothing until a situation reveals itself…it’s the hardest thing I have ever practiced, as it takes extraordinary self-discipline, but it continues to save my life.
And don’t ever call yourself a looney fool, or anything other than beautiful. You are a precious human being, and have a great warrior spirit, or you wouldn’t be here.
“If you want a situation to reveal itself, do nothing. It will take every ounce of discipline you have. But in the end, regardless of the ensuing pain, it will invariably lead to a time of great awakening. ”
Love this. Ironically, or not, the phrase “It is your attachment that brings you pain” is what initially brought me to study Buddhism many years ago. I have since strayed off my path; thank you for the reminder.
omg Nat, best one YET , I swear!! so true and funny . (he thinks you’re still into him ) seriously that was great, what a great article! i wonder if (he thinks you’re still into him) is the same with bonafide narcissists or if they just don’t think about the person at all? what would be your take on that?
regardless, frickin awesome post. SO good. thanks!
Narcissists think they’re the centre of the universe. They may or may not think about you – it depends on if you suit their purpose. I wouldn’t concern yourself with what whether they do – it suggests you still want validation and love from them which you just won’t get.
well, bcuz he is a regular customer where i work, i had figured he has mistaken my polite, professional demeanor for forgiveness, but it hadn’t occured to me he might have mistaken it for INTEREST!!!
well i doubt that’s the case now, as the last two times i ignored him completely as other co-workers were there to handle him, and he comes in now with that intense glare….lol….how dare I not press reset and be friendly!!! lol what an ass. it’s been TOTAL NC since i told him not to bother even talking to me in passing (small town) and that was almost a year ago. but, now i work in one of his haunts and i’m not RUDE so….actually, in HIS mind, ignoring him whilest busy at work while other employees handle him IS rude…hence the glare lol!
these guys are SO Effed UP!!
OMG….I’ve been reading and reading this blog for months and learning about myself and being so thankful that I was NOT CRAZY and have been NC for THREE glorious months (yay!), have gotten the random email, but TODAY I got an email that said…..”I could really use a friendly voice”. I admit, I paused, because I thought…..I could do some verbal diarrhea and get the LAST WORD in, but……..here is Natalie with this precise post to tell me that this AC is trying to sucker me back in as his effing Florence Nightingale. Nope. No way. IGNORE. I can’t wait to get my book! Ordered it off Amazon.
Wow Coffee. Something about that one … I guess everybody has their triggers, and yours did for me … the “hey how you doing” texts wouldn’t get me, but the ones that might sound like they are alone and thinking of me when they need help would tug at my gut. Good job for staying strong.
Actually, the “hey, hope all is okay” email was tough for me to not respond to. This friendly voice crap (hindsight is 20/20) was all I was to him…..his therapist, shoulder to lean on etc., I was his classic Florence Nightingale. Wugh. So to me, it was the red flag I ignored in the beginning.
Thanks CoffeeCat! I’ll bet he could use a friendly voice. He should call the Samaritans or friends who chat hotline. Who does he think you are? Dial an ego stroke?
Yes, that’s who he thinks I am. And I was. But not any more. I refuse, REFUSE to get sucked in again. He can burn in he**.
This recently happened to me, good timing. “I’m sure you don’t want to talk to me but wondering how you are?” – the previous one was sent in May, my last reply in March (thanks to time stamps I know this- and still remember the result of round 2, the biggest disappearing act ever!). I remember his level of inquiry was low when he had my attention – the random texts are poor attempts, and low on my list of reaching out to people I care about – visits & phone calls being my first options. Even an email could be more personable. I didn’t respond – I’m glad. Another man has my attention and is yet to disappear to only come back up to see if I’m still looking.
Well it begs the question of “why are you contacting me then?” if he knows you don’t want to speak to him? It’s quite revealing though because he knows he is not well regarded by you and *why* and yet he ploughs on regardless. It’s not important for him to be a remorseful person; it’s important for you to relieve his conscience by giving him some attention.
Natasha, I’m so sorry to hear what you went through. The bit about him ending things one day and then expecting everything to be just fine–my experience exactly. I suppose these guys think that if they do a good enough job of acting like things are fine it will convince us. Kind of like those guys who do crappy things and then turn around and act angry in the hopes that the woman will think she’s the one who has done something wrong.
My EUM broke it off, and has kept his foot in the door for the past year. I got tired of it and wasn’t really returning his calls, and so he had a tantrum on the phone and said he wasn’t going to call me again. A week later he texted a pseudo apology saying he didn’t like how he handled things. (Nevermind that any kind of reasonably mature person never would have said it to begin with, and in any event would have apologized much sooner). It was very surprising though, since he never accepts responsibility for anything. I imagine he waited a week before sending it to see if I would call him and accept the blame.
He followed up with a call saying that I’m a great person and he wants me in his life long term, he wants to do better, etc. He supposedly wanted to talk it all out and was willing to listen to me telling him he doesn’t treat me well, but we weren’t able to finish the conversation. He tried to meet up over the next few days to finish the talk, then essentially invited himself by just to ‘chat’ for a few minutes since I didn’t have the time to have a real conversation. He showed up and talked about himself for a while, tried to get an invitation to sleep at my place, and nosed around my house and my life….he left saying we’d talk to the next day, and I haven’t heard from him in the week since. Surprise!
I’m guessing either he got enough of a boost/felt like he could still have me such that he no longer needs to make an effort, or alternatively, he was annoyed that I didn’t fall at his feet when he walked in the door. I suppose if he does call and bring it up again I’ll give a brief rundown as it may make me feel better ultimately to know that I’ve said my piece…even though I know it’s unlikely to sink in.
Personally, I don’t think you should anticipate his next contact so that you can say something. You should start no contact this moment and decide no matter what he does–you will never speak to him again. Block him if you have to. Just my opinion, though.
A, it begs the question of why you would give this man another opportunity to behave in this way? So you can tell him all about himself and have the last word? You had your opportunity to say something and you didn’t. This man hasn’t changed and you know who he is. You know full well that it won’t change anything so why say something for the sake of it when you could be breaking ties and moving on with your life?
In my defence I did get one of two main points across before the call ended–if we’d had more time I would have finished it up. 🙂 I guess the thought of saying it makes me feel like I’ll be standing up for myself for once (although I do realize that closing the door and keeping it shut does the same). I’m tired of leaving things unsaid. At the end of the day I think I’ll feel better about going NC if I get this out first–even if I just summarize it into a 30 second sound bite. I should add that I’m feeling a reasonable level of indifference these days–obviously not 100% or I wouldn’t be bothered with this, but enough so that I don’t think I’ll be causing myself more pain in saying a few things.
That being said, he ended up calling today. I was curious to see what he would say. He asked how I was, then proceeded to ask me if I could help him with some random question. When I called him on it (i.e. calling after falling off the grid when we were supposed to have this great “talk”) he brushed my comments off, insisted on his question and said he’d call me back. I didn’t bother picking up when he did. I shouldn’t be surprised but I was annoyed, and I suppose I reverted back to an “I can’t be bothered to pursue this conversation” position.
A, how can you move on with that kind of contact still happening? For a year? You deserve better. Nat said it: you’ve had likely many chances, and attempts, to get better treatment from this guy already. Hope you’ve put that curiosity to bed for good.
A
You won’t get through to him. He’s not interested. If one of the exes I wronged came back to tell me about myself, I wouldn’t be interested either. I’d be embarrassed. I’d wonder why they couldn’t just drop it. I’d think they need to get a life. It’s been a year. By engaging with him for an entire year, he’s getting the message that a) you can’t be THAT angry and b) what he did can’t be THAT bad.
It would be like me turning up for work for a year, complaining about how I’m being treated, not being paid enough, being taken advantage of. At some point my colleagues will be thinking “She can’t be THAT bothered or she’d leave.”. That’s if they’re still listening!
Of course, if I had no skills, no prospects, no hope, no drive, no ambition and it was the only job on the planet then I would HAVE to stay. But that’s not the case is it?
A, and I say this as the outsider looking in – you’re falling into a well honed pattern of behaviour. The reason why you’re not getting to verbalise your sound bite is because every time you interact with this guy you prioritise your curiosity about what he might say or do. Fact is, if you continue down this road, you will never be NC because he will always get to pull one of his dumb stunts and afterwards you’ll come up with a new plan for what you intend to say that will make you feel better. It’s not about having more time – the time you get is what you have and if you didn’t keep putting this man on a pedestal and hoping he had a new record to play instead of the Me Me Me LP and you shut this bullshit down immediately when he made contact, you’d have your say if having the pseudo last word is of importance. You haven’t had your say because you don’t want to cut the tie. Let me assure you that when you start talking, he’s not going to pull up a pew, make himself comfortable and then say “OK A, please get all your grievances out and tell me what a shit of a man I am while I sit here politely and listen to you.”
Thank you Natalie! That really helped me. I keep formulating things in my head that I would say to my ex AC if I spoke to him. Why would I think that he would actually listen, hear me and say or do something differently than he has in the past? Definitely would just be more Relationship Insanity.
Thanks Nat. I agree with what you’re saying, but I think the curiosity at this moment stems from the fact that he did something he’s never done before. Is it enough? No. But his apologizing and asking me what the problems are, saying he wants to do better, blah blah blah–it’s a first. I don’t think his actions will match, but I suppose it was interesting to be in that position for the first time where he was asking me to talk to him about it–he did pull up a pew, for however briefly 🙂
I know his “turn around” only happened b/c I was actually ready to not contact him again, and he sensed that the tides had shifted. You’re right, Nat, that I haven’t wanted to cut the tie completely. I’m more ready to do it than ever before, but I do let this little bit of sadness stop me. It’s funny, but I’ve realized that I’m actually sad sometimes about the fact that my feelings have changed and that I’m not crazy about this guy anymore. It’s a stupid thing to regret since his actions are what have made me feel this way…and of course I’m grateful for it at the same time b/c I’ve clearly been a fool and put up with way too much crap, and I’m tired of hurting. I guess it’s just so rare for me to feel so much for someone that I’m mourning the loss of what I thought it could have been. (Emotionally lazy, maybe?)
The sound bite isn’t going to be reactive to whatever stupid thing he says or does tomorrow. It’s essentially “you treat me badly, this isn’t a friendship, it doesn’t work for me–I don’t want some kind of in-between thing in my life (nor someone who treats me like crap)”. That is all. Maybe somewhere in his selfish little brain he’ll feel a twinge, maybe not. But I’ll have said it, and he won’t have to wonder why I’m not answering my phone anymore.
Hey. Just thanks. And you, yet again, got this one bang on. Hurts.
You’re welcome Tracy and hope you’re OK.
When I broke up with my ex he asked if we were still friends.I told him I couldn’t be friends with someone I was in love with .( He wasn’t friend worthy )
In my experience,if there is nothing in it for them eg-sex, attention etc.they soon lose the desire to be friends.They look for the next vulnerable female.That’s why no contact is great advice.
I am now emotionally unavailable because of him, but I don’t want to date anyone either.I don’t want to pretend to be something i’m not,mess someone about or make false promises.These EUM are without conscience and who needs a friend like that.
Hi Tanzanitw, I always think when someone asks to be friends straight after breaking up that it’s madness. It’s like “Hello! How about you give me more than a hot minute to process and come to terms with this breakup!”
Hi everyone..
First, let me say thank you so much to all of you ladies that have replied to my posts with kind words and links, and support. I really appreciate evey word of it.
The last couple days has been really tough, since he sent the two text messages in a day after 20 of NC. I was doing great with the no contact..then BLAM!..Im sent about 10 step backwards emotionally, with two measley texts. Left wondering a dozen things, and one of them being if I brought this all on myself. After we broke up, he said the most important thing to him was that we remained friends. Then he mentioned it again, after i sent him a text saying that I needed time and space away from him. ..he sent one back saying that he would be “right here, if I decided that we could try to find a relationship(by that he means “friendship”) that worked for both of us. Hold on Assclown..You dumped me. Twice. Now, 22 days ago before I was obsessivley reading this website and still willing to accept and hoping for his crumbs, I was more than willing to try to be his friend. Even when he said, ” It feels good to think that we can be intimate again one day.,but we’ll have to cross that bridge when we get to it”. THAT actually excited me.
I admit I have had the last couple days the two things that those texts have me questioning the most is…
1.) Is he REALLY an Assclown and a EUM? Or have I unfairly labelled?.Why cant i just stick to one freaking emotion or thought..one minute im totally convinced that I was treated like crap, and this is the best thing for me to do, the next minute im flopping the other way, and ive decided that hes a great guy and im the one that messed everything up with my neediness.
2.) Cant help but keep wondering what hes doing,..if hes dating again, and yet, I know that having anything to do with him has always been painful, within the first 30 seconds of contact he usually says something that hurts, or causes me anxiety. I cant seem to keep focused on me, and moving forward….
Im glad that Ive been able to be strong enough to maintain no contact for 23 days now..and I made a big move today, and finally erased all his texts from the last month and a half. It was heart breaking for me, because it was the last bit of him I had left.
This friends idea was never going to work, and I know that…i have no intentions of being his friend. Im just having…
you will never get to “that bridge”. AND, might i add, why should you?! like being intimate with him is a favor you have to gain ? keep coming back here. read all Nat’s posts. DO.NOT>MAKE.CONTACT:EVER!! trust me, if you stick to this, you will feel SO ReLIEVED in a few months when u can see straight. labels, labels. forget the labels. if what is written on this site resonates….keep reading.
Oh @Heartshaped, my heart aches for you. This absolutely sucks.
You could try Nat’s post ‘Why You’re Still Stuck on Hurt’ –
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/why-youre-still-stuck-on-hurt/
This got me through a really rough patch.
Sweetie, it doesn’t sound like you two can be friends, and that is NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. Now is a really good time to go and find your real friends – remember them? the people who DON’T make you feel like shit.
I like to sing, at times like this, a rousing chorus of ‘Who are the people in your neighbourhood?’ and list all my real friends. Surround yourself with good things, and just give this whole awful mess plenty of time to heal. It will heal, but it will take time, that’s all.
PJM, I’ve cursed you a few times today. That song has been stuck in my head on and off since this morning! One of my favourites from when I was a kid!
It IS hugely annoying, but it does stick in the mind, which is why it’s a good tool to keep in the mental health first aid kit.
And if it really annoys you, replace it with the theme from ‘Bonanza’, because that will clear a ‘blocked’ tune but leaves no oily residue behind …
HSN: Am I right in remembering that this was a guy who was a client? Isn’t that in itself enough to take a step back?
Stay strong and know that the self-doubt is normal. Focus on what you said: “Having anything to do with him has always been painful, within the first 30 seconds of contact he usually says something that hurts, or causes me anxiety.”
For what it’s worth, your exact confusion is very familiar to me. It’s important to remember that judging a person’s character is not a zero sum game: he doesn’t get to do two negatives because he does two positives. You want a relationship that is Value Added to your life: ie. positive. There should be way more positive than negative.
Also, you might look at it like this. I found I couldn’t go more than about 48 hours, usually less, before my exAC would say something that either caused anxiety, was hurtful, or just openly displayed what a mean-spirited person he was, even though these moments would occur within the context of him taking me to dinner, him doing a movie night with me, us going away for a weekend. When I really stopped and thought about it, these moments were like verbal slaps in the face.
How often in a relationship do you allow a slap in the face? 48 hours of ‘good’ behaviour does not mean he gets a free bitch slap! Seen in those terms, even if he is a ‘nice’ guy – like an otherwise normal dude who can’t keep from swinging his fist when he gets upset, if a guy can’t control his put downs and sabotages of trust, he’s toxic.
Stay NC. We’re here for you.
I’m really with you with the “diagnosis” issue. I’ve been SO needy and have crossed boundaries so many times myself ! Like, the first time we broke up he was keeping away and being silent and saying “we can’t talk now, we need to let time help us figure things out” but I would be the one giving in, by sending an email or a text each week. I’ve been so scared of losing him that him being No Contact made me feel like I had lost everything and needed some proof that he was still there.
The second time we broke up, which was four months ago, I did it again. I thought I managed my neediness but I didn’t. I truly tried to make myself available all the time and *I* was the one not letting go and trying to keep a foot in his life by all means.
But.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the “diagnosis” doesn’t really matter in the end. If you have been too needy and didn’t hold your own in the past, you can do it NOW.
When you look back don’t try to figure out his intentions, just concentrate on your actions and whether you were acting with sufficient distance and self-esteem. If not, acknowledge it and be sure not to do it again !
Whether you were being needy or not at the time, you can change and stop being that woman.
From now on, focus on standing your ground. And don’t play any games with him. If he’s a decent guy, he will not play any games either and whatever form your relationship takes (be it acquaintances, friends, etc) from now on it will be clear cut and respectful, simple as that.
If he wasn’t a decent guy, he’s not going to take your new confidence all that well and is going to try to have you back as the needy woman.
For me there’s really no way of knowing what’s the ‘truth’ about him and you don’t need to. You need to think about yourself, become more confident and get some self-esteem so you don’t repeat your behavior with NOBODY. Not him, not any other man.
The most important point is, don’t lose yourself, don’t let anybody get that type of control over you ever again. Those who only want to control you will not appreciate your confident self anyway.
In short : don’t let it be about him (not now, not ever). Get comfortable and happy with yourself. Don’t cross others’ boundaries anymore if you have in the past, and don’t let anybody cross yours. You’ll know soon enough if he was an assclown or not.
Very much agree Tya. I think as women, if we stopped playing Columbo and Doctor Bad Relationship, diagnosing our exes and partners and trying to pin conditions on them, our lives would be radically different. It says a lot about where your priorities are and how honest you are with yourself as an individual when you are faced with an opportunity to learn from a poor experience and build on your self-etseem, and instead you invest in getting a Ph.D in figuring out someone else. Major avoidance.
I couldn’t agree more. I spent about one year (embarrassing I know) reading medical textbooks (I’m a nerd) and medical journals because I was convinced the guy I was seeing was a sociopath or simply just a narcissist. I spent so much time doing this (one year!!) that I truly believe I could pass a medical school psychiatry exam on the subject. What a complete and utter waste of my time. He was just a super jerk and I should have spent that time focusing on myself and my future and studying for my actual exams!! Something in me needed to know WHY he was that way. In the end the WHY didn’t change the fact that he was that way.
@Lavender: Frankly, I don’t think it was a complete waste of time. Understanding what’s wrong with those people is a first step to understand what we are struggling with ourselves. Judging from what you told us about your ex, I guess you might have been right about his narcissism.
The point is, you can’t change him (the most important thing to know about narcissism!), so you have to start with yourself. Same with narcissistic parents (like mine).
Maybe you should start reading more stuff about how narcissistic abuse affects YOU (if you haven’t done it yet). You also need to focus on your feelings (preferrably together with a counselor).
EllyB and Lavender, no it’s not a complete waste but out of a year, that’s anything from 358-364 days too many spent investigating the shit out of another person. You only have to read one page of information about narcisissts to know that it’s an an abort mission situation. What becomes a year long investigation is avoiding yourself and being in denial about their problems while often becoming obsessed with every facet of their character. If you have a year of your life to spare, the first priority is to invest it in you. It’s no about investigating the shit out of them – it’s working out why you’re still there and/or why you’re attracted to them.
This guy sounds narcissistic. I would stay away.
HS
I’m going to promote him from EU to AC. Stick with NC.
“Is he REALLY an Assclown and a EUM? Or have I unfairly labelled?.Why cant i just stick to one freaking emotion or thought..one minute im totally convinced that I was treated like crap, and this is the best thing for me to do, the next minute im flopping the other way, and ive decided that hes a great guy and im the one that messed everything up with my neediness.”
HeartShaped, I think a lot of us have been there (I know I have!). This guy is a total assclown. It’s not needy to expect to be treated well – that’s a baseline requirement, not an extraordinary request! As normal as it is to wonder what he’s doing – don’t, because this type of guy tends to do the lather-rinse-repeat where it’s “same bullshit, different woman”. Let me break it down for you: If he was a decent guy, upon being told or recognizing that he was hurting you, he would respectfully walk away. It’s that simple.
Heartshapednoose this man is unavailable anyway, assclown or not. Personally I don’t believe in spending time around men who give you forewarning that they’re going to tap you up for a no strings shag by crossing that bridge when you come to it. It’s only been 23 days – you’re supposed to feel a roller coaster of emotions. I wouldn’t analyse the crap out of yourself or stifle the process. Let it be. Feel the pain. Accept that it’s over and what has happened. This isn’t a fairytale – let real life kick in.
If you have to put this much “analysis” into trying to figure out where he is coming from or “who he is,” you’re dating the wrong guy!
Healthy relationships don’t require that we bend ourselves into pretzels trying to figure everything out.
It’s all a big passive-aggressive game to them, and if you engage, you are also being passive-aggressive and unwilling to see the reality.
Do NC and forget about him.
HSN,
Everytime I see your posts, I read “HeartshapedNOSE. In December of 2011, when I first googled “Other Women” and hit fortunately on BR, I wondered too if the exMM was an AC or a EUM. In the beginning, it is hard to see the forest through the trees. I agree with the others, the label doesn’t matter. Where was Mr. Client when you terminated your pregnancy? A cheese sandwich and bowl of soup…Plezzz?
My emotions darted all over the map in the beginning and my posts on this blog reflect the fact I may have been crazy. The only saving grace for me has been NC, even if I slipped, I knew the only way out of this was NC. No matter how crazy you feel right now, stay NC. Hmmm, I’d like 15 minutes with your ex-client. He’s AC/EUM and a total JERK. Forgive my labels. He is simply not treating you with love, respect, and care. “I made a big move today, and finally erased all his texts from the last month and a half. It was heart breaking for me, because it was the last bit of him I had left.” I just did it too. It hurts cos we so want him to be the handsome prince and sweep us off in the pumpkin carriage. We ain’t Cinderella. In fact, Cinderella wasn’t Cinderella. And there is no Stana Claus. Darn. Is there an Easter Bunny?
OK, lets cut the thing simple – lets imagine you give in and the *friendship* starts all over again. And you secretly hope that THIS time its all different and he finally comes to his senses (and maybe you know someone WHO had the similar situation and now miraculously they are married). Or you have seen a movie, where the “love conquers it all, no matter the size of the rocks” and you belive, that if you do a little bit more, try act less *needy*, be more understanding, misjudge your own gut and judgement, things will be better and you finally conquer him.
But reality is that it wont be different, except that each time it affects you worse and you feel worse about yourself etc.
There are too much x-files going on with this man. So if you imagine the rest of your life with anxiety, never knowing where you stand, feeling that you are option, feeling not so good about yourself, when he is away (and you never know WHERE he is exactly), being kept secret from his family, hot and cold, on and off, not knowing when you see him next, him calling you needy, the overall bad feeling you have when he isnt around, but when he is around you think, maybe you are wrong about judging him, then well, you are in charge of your desicions. But when you are in the place where you already realize, how bad that feels and sounds, you might also realize that *those shoes make your feet go pain*
Healing is a proccess of its own, and you cannot *force yourself* to get better. Its like bleeding wound, which heals in time. So give yourself time to heal and put your *firewalls* in action, which means keeping NC.
youre super woman you can do this!!
Oh You Guys..
Thanks so much for your words. Its always so damn relieving to know im not the only one going through this healing process.
I came to another big step, and realization, but I will have to write about it a bit later, I’d love to get your opinions on this one.
I was so excited to see that NML relpied to my post too!…LOL..i’m all starstruck!…I seriously told a friend of mine, and he was like…”what?..who replied to your post?”
So this is just a thank you to all of you. I will be back a little later when the kids arent so busy, and I have a little more time.
Have a good day everyone.
HSN
So as I was reading this post last night thinking “ Thank God, I don’t have to worry about this situation.” See, my exEUM pulled a disappearing act on me only to reappear 2 weeks later parading his new gf in front of me. They met online, while we were still together….
Well anyways, I was reading this article and got a text message guess from who? YEP, after almost 4 months of NC I got a text from HIM ? saying that he is “out partying with some people from your country. How are you? ;-)”
WHAT? Do I care?
Sounds like sooner or later he is going to be all about let’s be friends BS… and making me an exclusive member of his Narcissistic harem.
I must admit that I was shocked to get a text after 4 months of strict NC. We had a huge fight the very last time I saw him and he was ok with losing me because he already had my replacement lined up. At the same time, It just confirms what Natalie has been saying all along – They always want to keep a foothold in our lives, poking, texting, future faking.
It’s not flattering for me to realize that he might still think of me as an option. … I am sticking to NC – that is something that I am proud of !
Hmmmmm, Liska, I believe 4 months is a fairly standard time for an EUM/AC to feel that the novelty has worn off with his shiny new girlfriend………. Could it be that he’s starting to sound out all his fallback options, I wonder?
Yep, definitely stick to it Liska. To be honest with you, I wouldn’t take him too seriously. His new girlfriend isn’t going to have it easy either. He’s slippery. Little does she realise that he was in another relationship when they met… He’s barely taken time to pee, never mind breathe from your relationship. Guys that disappear don’t just do it once…
I was thinking the same thing! Hmm sounds like the shiny new penny has become worn… better make sure someone out there thinks I’m the bee’s knees!
I agree with you Spinster, I’m a pretty private person swell . I don’t have Facebook. My ex contacted me months after our breakup and still blamed everything on me- even though he wanted to be single. He jumped straight into ” are you single?”. I never broke NC, he did- yet he called me the nutjob. He promised to meet me, weeks later he still hadn’t. Them I find out this prick already had someone new. Yet he was chasing me. So how am I the nutjob? He begged me to meet him for weeks. I hope someone screws this guy over, I have no empathy at all. Utterly pathetic.
My exAC has not contacted me in 10 months and I’ve been NC with him for over a year. That’s good.
I want to figure out how to let go of the ‘hold’ I allow ‘him’ to have in my life by still thinking about how he treated me. Every time I go for a walk in my neighborhood I go by the big glass tower where he works and enjoys his big shot life; every time I see the logo for his company I feel like I’m still getting laughed at, still being treated like a quirky, amusing artist who doesn’t know how to make money, still being treated like I should be grateful that a big powerful white man reached down and tried to make a Cinderella out of a working class brown girl.
Every time I think of my financial situation, my work choices, the unfairness of the world (big Wall Street egos versus non-profit strugglers, for example), I think of him.
When he used to contact me, I was flattered. He always made it clear that a man like him hardly has time to return most of his business calls, let alone call some random single woman – so I did feel more than ‘random.’ The phone ring was exhilarating, he always disappointed once he opened his mouth to start talking about himself.
Anyway I think it’s far too long that I have been feeling invisible and isolated. Those feelings remind me of how mean he was, and how no one saw it, and how he’ll never pay. Somewhere along the line I have lost my sense of closure, and I still imagine running into him. I do picture being cool and collected, but I know it would be a non-event, and that the next minute I’d be right back to where I am now. I know I have to give myself closure; I’m frankly ashamed that the idea of him still has such a big plot of real estate in my head. I still wish, I guess, that I could see him pay for what he did.
Magnolia,
I know that sense of wanting revenge. It reminds me of the saying that when we feel resentful it is like we’re taking poison and hoping the other person will die.
Magnolia, I think sometimes you are far too hard on yourself. You’re not Wonderwoman you know. You’re only human and have been through a lot and have also progressed a lot. Your feelings, vision, and experience are just as important. It doesn’t matter if they didn’t see it – they weren’t in a relationship with him. That’s an entirely different thing. I’m sure the people around some of my exes think the sun shines out of their back sides – they’ve never been that flipping close to them or had to put up with them in a relationship way to truly know a damn thing. I’d also stop making him out to be a giant. You’re the one making him out to a big man by overvaluing his status etc. This is in direct contradiction with your own values. By overvaluing his status you’re actually undermining your own values including your creativity. Embrace who you are. This man is not the definition of you.
I’m also someone who just wants them out of my head already!!! I’m always trying to rush things though and it’s barely 4 months since we broke up and 3 since I moved out.. you gotta allow your feelings to be what they are. There’s nothing wrong with them and they’re going to be there no matter how much you try to talk yourself out of it. In fact you’ll just drag it out longer because if you repress them, you won’t truly heal. So just let them out – cry when you want to cry, scream when you want to scream. And don’t think you *shouldn’t* be feeling a certain way because there is no should or shouldn’t with feelings.. they just are.
I know how you feel. You get to torn to shreds on every level….these people have a way of rejecting you as a human being. Everything in you takes a beating. AND….they go on living their shallow, worthless lives, enjoying every day. You know you’re a good person….you know they are monsters. It defies every notion of Cosmic Justice. Why do the worthy lose, and the undeserving win? If there is no such thing as justice – what’s the point???
Have faith that we’ll live to see better days, and they’ll be the same empty, pathetic pieces of crap they always were.
Orange, carrie, NML, hadenough: thanks. Sometimes it’s just enough to express my out-of-control feelings in a space where some fine people will respond, remind me of my strengths, and we all carry on. I have up days and down days – the above is a ‘down’ day. Nat is right. I keep progressing, in that zig zaggy upward trend, and the down zags aren’t anywhere near what they used to be. It’s like now, if I already feel down, I’m reminded of the feeling of him (spiralling thoughts) as opposed to actively still getting over him and having that bring me down. I just have to not let those associations scare me into telling myself that I’m not progressing fast enough. Maybe I’ll just picture a vat of boiling acid or something as a replacement for the bad, but in fact, old history memories that come up when my active imagination is in a dark spiral.
Magnolia,
I have been, for the last two days, having the idea to pass on the emails from the married guy to his wife. I’m feeling vengeful. I played a part in destroying a relationship with a boyfriend a few years back because I was having this emotional affair with this now married man (he was not married back then). His girlfriend, now wife, had no idea. So he gets to go on and she never has to know all the while I am single and kicking myself at times for what I did. I remember the married guy saying to me once a while ago that I should have felt flattered he even considered leaving his girlfriend for me. It feels unbalanced, like his side of the scale is higher than mine. But I imagine his wife would probably only gripe at him, monitor his emails and cell phone for a while until it passed. I really doubt she would leave him, not a lot of women do leave their player husbands. I don’t think I”ll do it though because I don’t want anything to do with her, I just wish she had a clue what he does behind her back even if it only meant she would become a nag toward him. It ticks me off they don’t have to have consequences.
I understand the need for revenge Magnolia and Colororange. Even now seven years after I split up with the narc assclown who I wasted 10 years of my life on (and five years NC although of course I no longer count), and despite being in a much happier place now, I have a recurring dream about grassing him up to the Inland Revenue as he never used to pay his taxes (and more than likely still doesn’t). I’ve been close to actually doing it but always decide I don’t want to be that person and that karma will get him in the end. Some days it just makes me so cross that he got off scot free and is now off merrily screwing with another woman’s head and probably scrounging money off her to boot. But if we took our revenge would I feel any better after we did it? I think the cliche ‘the best revenge is living well’ is probably true.
I’m lucky in the fact that my last eum and I have no friends or people in common. It would be almost impossible for us to keep up with each other. I removed him from my facebook page and the other social media outlets I use are for business purposes only and dont say anything about my private life.
I am so grateful for this blog. Nat is right, I used to really believe that I was irresistible or that I was well thought of because lots of eu’s I dated would continue to contact me long after we had stopped seeing each other, sometimes 3 in one week. I now realize it was just their way of getting an ego stroke and that the only thing that said about me is that I’m a doormat that keeps answering the phone….basically I’m good for a laugh, a shoulder to cry on and an encouraging word to make them feel good about themselves. But not one of them ever gave anything in return. My sister asked me recently why did my exs always call me and I finally admitted to her and myself that it was simply because I pick up the phone. Well no more, after I found this site there is a new sheriff in town and her name is sm. I deleted all ex assclowns off my fb, linkedin, twitter. I made myself recall what it really was about them that I did not like and how their specific treatment of me denoted that they really did not care about me at all. I feel much better now that I am seeing ‘the light’. Its been 3 months since this occurred and all kinds of progressive things are happening for me. I havent felt like dating yet, but not because I’m hung up on some guy its because I’m hung up on me.
” I havent felt like dating yet, but not because I’m hung up on some guy its because I’m hung up on me.”
Ooo I really like this.. I’m in the same spot – both in how much time it’s been and being ready to date. I have no desire to be with my ex – friendship or otherwise – but I’m not ready to give up all the joy I’m having just being with me! It’s awesome to only worry about myself. I figure I’ll know when it’s time – I won’t have to wonder if it is or not, it’ll just be.
“I havent felt like dating yet, but not because I’m hung up on some guy its because I’m hung up on me.” Brilliant SM.
So is there a trick or technique to prevent or limit how often you think about the AC/EUM? I try to put him out of my mind, but unfortunately my thoughts keep wandering back to him. Sometimes it’s because I’m so angry at him for blowing me off, other times it’s because I miss him. Is it that it just takes time to get over him? I hate the fact that I’m wasting time and energy thinking about him, but I’m not quite sure how to put him out of my mind.
Also, I have to see him at church. Do I just be polite, say hello and walk away?
I would suggest visiting another church for a while or changing churches all together. I stayed (regretably) at my last church for two years after my boyfriend and I broke up, and it was hell. This is after he broke up with me by ceasing all communication with me. Then he flaunted his new girlfriend in my face for those two years while I bravely tried to put up a front of being okay with it all. I was not okay; I was an emotional wreck, bleeding internally. My pride kept me at that church for too long, and it was not worth it. I was much happier when I let go and moved on.
This topic also reminds me of a friend of mine. He has a mutual friend that constantly keeps him up to date on his ex wife’s personal life. He complains about it, but won’t tell the person to stop! Such insanity, no wonder why he can’t get over her. Why not actually do something about it? It REALLY puts me off.
But Fedup, you’ve done the same thing if you’ve been with a Mr Unavailable… We’ve all been guilty of it at some point!
Fedup, you’re doing the same thing NOW by complaining about the stuff this guy is complaining to YOU about, and not telling him to stop!
This year alone, I had three ex EUMs and near AC territory contact me and throw around the friend card. The first, well, I let that fall in a pile of dust because he’s a complete idiot and he was only wanting to add one more “friend” to his 1300 “friends” on facebook. I had no self-doubt about that decision. The second, we’re on talking terms and it’s no where near where it was earlier this year when I was torn up over his arse. I still go from “do I want to be his ‘friend’ to ef the douche and stop talking to him since he was a toad to me” in my head. There is no romanticizing some stupid fairytale with him though. It’s next to null. My definition of a friend is not what he is.
The third is a different story. I had strong feelings for him and it was difficult to let that go. When I said it was over a couple years ago but I still had to see him at times, it was hard. Then he rolls my way this time and he is married, saying he didn’t know where he’d be six months from now. It didn’t feel right and in all honesty I could not be his “friend” considering there are still feelings there for him. It would be stupid on my part to go down that road because it would always be lingering in my head if I still had a shot with him. The funny thing is, none of these guys ever wanted a shag. I’ve not had a man come back around my way for a shag. I guess it was more for my paying some sort of attention to them that “soothed” them.
Most the people I consider friends are twice my age. I have gravitated to older people all my life because most my age are immature or I haven’t found any that stick around as a friend. I feel bad about myself a lot because there is no one I can really call up and go hang out as a friend. It can be easy to fall in to that trap of being taken advantage of by someone in the name of having a friend.
Yeah it would be better if these guys learned how to self-soothe or got themselves a comforter / blankie / silky Colororange…. I know you were very attracted to the third one but there’s no other way to say this – he’s a penis. Anyone that will do a general ‘weather forcast’ and predict that his marriage may be over in a fee months with his who knows attitude is to be backed away from. His behaviour isn’t flattering – he’s just lining his ex ducks up like the way someone else would hear a weather forecast for rain and take an umbrella…
Captivated by him was more like it, more than physically. I am not sure why he threw the whole didn’t know where he would be six months from now as far as his marriage is concerned. I only asked if he was married, not where he would be or how much longer it would be. All he had to do was say yes or no. I figure he said it to dangle some kind of hope in front of me to keep me around to chat with. It sucks. It hurts. It makes me sad. I have to let that dream go since obviously he is no good for me. I wouldn’t imagine by my negative response to him he’ll be poking around my neck of the woods again. This is a tough one. It’ll take time but it will pass. He just jarred me is all.
PS I don’t know what a silky is, but I bet he’d get good use out of it.
I’ve got a little quiz for you all:
Imagine a man saying:
A. “We broke up but stayed friends. I’m friends with loads of exes, I’m a cool guy! She’s happy with it – she goes on a bit sometimes but I reckon she still likes me, ha, she’s only human. Look at these facebook posts and these texts! She even sent me a birthday card. The other day she invited me over. I tried to shag her but she turned me down – maybe next time though! It’s handy having her around. If it doesn’t work out with the new bird, at least I’ve got her to hook up with or hang out with. No, I wouldn’t have a SERIOUS relationship with her, I’m not ready for that and, anyway, been there, tried that with her already. ” OR
B. “We broke up and I never heard from her again. When I tried to contact her she completely blanked me.”
Would you rather be the woman in A. or B.? Who does this man respect more?
C. the woman who does not give a sh** on his respect/opinion
Good point, Grace. But maybe the question should be: which version of ourselves would WE respect more? As tough as it is, we’re all working on bringing it back to ourselves, and maybe his opinion of us shouldn’t matter a whit.
Oh yes, I’m way beyond caring, but I see that many women are not. Wee think that by being accommodating, “nice”, friendly, or chasing him down for an answer we’re going to get something from him. We get nada. Just more disrespect. And THAT I think we should all care about.
Amen Grace.
SOLUTION:
I think that when we get to a point of feeling indifferent towards these clowns, whatever they do and say won’t really matter anymore. I also think that once they realize that, then they immediately change their tune. Also, once we move on to new, fulfilling, happy, and healthy relationships, it most certainly won’t matter anymore. Once you truly move on, YOU really won’t give a rats ass anymore.
Here’s to moving on and becoming indifferent
Agreed Gina. In general, a Mr Unavailable been able to dip in and out of your life, poke around, cause you to expend serious brain power and emotion, is a sign tha you haven’t moved on. The more moved on you are, the less of an impact they can make.
This one really hit home for me. My ex tried to play the friend card and i agreed. He was actually a nicer person after we broke up however that didnt last very long at all. He was doing all this to ease his guilt for being a cheater and a liar. He wanted to prove to his family and friends that he couldnt possibly be such a bad guy if i the ex still gave him the time of day. Thank god i wised up and took off the rose tinted glasses and went full NC 4 months now. I don’t care what he thinks of me anymore. The spell is broken and the frog stayed as a frog. He is someone elses problem now i just wish it hadn’t taken me so long to flush this loser
This “He wanted to prove to his family and friends that he couldnt possibly be such a bad guy if i the ex still gave him the time of day.” is spot on. You’re just part of a shady production. It’s not about you – it’s image maintenance. Imagine if half of these clowns were being blanked and rightly so by their exes – that would send a serous message to them. It’d be like “What? So you never did anything wrong in any of your relationships and yet not one of your exes wants anything to do with you?”
It’s ironic, isn’t it, that the very thing he is trying to prove actually disproves the health of the relationship in the first place? A healthy, decent guy would respect the need for space for himself and his ex, in order to move on. And he wouldn’t worry about proving his decency.
I read the this post and started to cry. It is okay. Happened to me last week. After 8 months of my going NC and then 2 months of him checking up on me, I finally said, “sure, come over for coffee”. An hour of good conversation, my boundaries fully in place, I said “nice to see you and bye”. And I knew it bugged the heck out of him. I am not the same person I was. But it made me sad. Still. Thanks for helping me understand myself better.
That made me snort with laughter Tracy but I do understand your sadness. It’s because it was farewell and acceptance. Now let me send you a virtual high five!
Yo Shizzle
I can tell you that once a Narcissist decides you are surplus to his requirements, he NEVER gets back in touch with you, he is too busy either into his other harem members (yes he usually has quite a few in the background you never knew about, nor did i), or else thinks he is too ‘special’ to even consider what suffering you may have since the split. He is so far into himself he could not care less how you are. He has no feelings about you then, nor any empathy.
How do i know this? Because the man i was with for 3 years, the man who called me ‘my girl’, put me on a pedestal and then he cheated, and probably not for the first time, which i did not know about, actually stood in front of me one night and right out of the blue having had no argument, unceremoniously told me he was now a changed man and he did not want anything to do with me anymore. To say i was dumbfounded was an understatement, i actually asked if he had had some sort of breakdown, or was joking. No, he replied he had changed now and i was no longer required. Just like you would throw out an old pair of old shoes !
It has been well over 12 months now and i have never tried to contact him, nor he me, and i can honestly say i am now healing nicely and long may it continue. I have to thank him really for letting me see how the mind of a Narcissist operates and enabling me to be fore warned for avoiding those types of men. They are surely a race apart.
That’s one cold hearted twit right there Madam Butterfly. Mind you, the way he was talking, all he did was prove that he truly is bonkers because no normal, rational, empathetic human being behaves in this way. His behaviour was so assholic, he made it easy for you to ignore him. Kudos to you.
“Be under no illusions – he’s poking around to maintain The Status Quo. Nothing more, nothing less.”
Oh, yes, I know, I answered two or three times before initiating NC again. I told him I was in a hurry and asked to be quick. He had nothing to say,of course , just to say “how are you”. I noticed that every time when I take his calls, I have a bad mood right afterwards. Once I asked “Why are you calling?” and he replied “Do I need a reason to call?”
These jerks think they have the right to be in our life even if the so called relationship has ended. They think they are so gorgeous that we must be flattered by their attention.
So now I just don’t take his calls. I didn’t even call him on his birthday, I don’t want a friend with such a character. I don’t wish him luck, nor happiness. I’m sure he’ll receive what he deserves.
That’s hilarious Mirelle. Actually he *does* need a reason to call! As you rightly pointed out, not only are you not friends but he didn’t even treat you well in the relationship. I once said to an ex when he poked around “Please state the nature of your call!” He wasn’t too pleased but I had a good laugh!
That reminds me that sometimes some ex-friends do that too, not just ex-lovers. I have this acquaintance on FB, who used to be a really, really close friend, who never comments on anything going in my life, doesn’t wish me a happy b-day (I have stopped doing it in return, but only after a couple of times) or doesn’t ever make any attempt at contacting me when it doesn’t fit her agenda.
But everytime I post something really ‘big’ on FB it’s all about her. She won’t speak to me for literally a year, but when I will ask if someone is up to share a flat with me suddenly she’s the first to answer “Oh, me ! That’d be wicked ! I miss you. 🙁 ” and I humour her with a “Definitely, we’d have a blast ! Miss you too babe !”. That’s the end of her for another year.
Seriously, I had a crush on her five or six years back, that I got over very quickly, so it doesn’t hurt me at all. It came to mind reading this post but I don’t ever think about her those days.
But still. Those messages tended to puzzle me briefly in the past, now I’m just seeing her has keeping a foothold in my life to see if I’m still interested in her. That’s… interesting.
I’m really starting to become amused by the terms “friends” recently. I would say I’ve been an avid BR student for almost 2 yrs now. The longer you go the more enlightened you become. I’m now in the “wow” phase of are men and women reeeeeeeeaallly friends. Of course I have men I am friendly with, that I’m not attracted to, that have wives, significant others that I know and love. But really how many of those men actually call me to check in on me, see how I’m doing, etc? I can count maybe only a few, if that. Conversely, I am also no longer phoning them all the time whining about my dating life, how so and so gives me the mixed messages drama and what should I do? blah blah. I think once I stopped needing a willing ear it became glaringly apparant how really deep some of these friendships ran with men. Not very. Maybe they are not supposed to. It’s definitely been food for thought on my mind lately so it’s a timely article to throw it out.
I now maintain a few distant, keep in touch once in a while, with a few male friendships that I’ve had for years where there’s never been any attraction/dating/messing around with ever. Otherwise I really consider deeper emotional friends my female counterparts, that worry when they haven’t heard from me in a while, that support me and speak kindly to and about me. And I will say even THAT group is dwindling due to the rampant EU drama a lot of my female friends engage in. If I tell them to dump the guy, I’m a bitch… no fun, etc. If I sit and listen to it I want to kill myself out of frustration for them to see the light. It’s been another onion layer eye opener to let go and accept that maybe the term “friend” doesn’t mean as much as I always gave it credit for. I used friendships as yet another validation avenue. Strip yet that one away for the TRUE meaning of what a friend is and boy its another level of letting go. Of realizing that being alone is truer than some of my friendships… being alone is a good test of self love and fighting the woe is me that can keep you stuck. Even though I’ve been spending more time than ever alone I feel like I’m growing even more.
CC
I no longer have any close male friends either. Fortunately, I have two brothers so I don’t feel I’m missing out. I’m also friendly with a few elderly (and I mean ELDERLY) gentlemen at church. I’m still quite attractive so I wouldn’t chat up a storm with any young married men – I’m past being so naive as to think their wives won’t mind. And I’m past being so selfish that I don’t care what the wives think. As for single men, I certainly don’t want to be encouraging any half my age, or less. It was a shock a few years ago when I realised an 18 yo boy was flirting with me!
I’ve softened myposition – if other women tell me they have close male friends with no agenda and it IS possible for men and women to be friends, I believe them. But I’ve not experienced it myself and none of my female friends or colleagues have close male friends either. So I think it’s rare and we don’t need to agonise about not having male friends. I think it’s quite normal.
It’s a different matter to be in a couple and to have mutual friends, but when you’re single, it’s thorny.
I really know what you’re talking about re: the female friends situation. Also the male friends.
Nat, one day I really hope you write a post on friends (not guys you like that you pretend to be friends with), but actual friends both female and male and how to set boundaries with them. I think a lot of the same problems I have with men romantically, I also have with my friends – as in I don’t put myself first, I am a push over etc. I would read this a million times!
Here you go https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/when-you-experience-conflict-in-your-friendships-because-of-new-boundaries/
Thank you so much Nat!! I have learned so much from your site – truly! I think you have astoundingly good insight into human behaviour. I hope you don’t stop blogging, even when you become a world famous author. I like the blogging cause whenever you post something it’s a chance for me to remind myself of this tendency that I have towards unsuitable men. If it wasn’t for that reminder, I might forget and fall back into old patterns.
Started NC with my AC of 6 years 5 weeks ago before I found this smart and supportive site. We’ve been on/off, I’ve normalized bad behavior and been managed down to I-don’t-know-what! He stood me up/blew me off the wknd I moved – a new low. I called him out and elaborated why what he did was wrong in multiple texts – realized it was ridiculous. Right, Mr. Charming doesn’t know how to woo when it suits him?!! A week later, he replies “You’re an ass. I’m home wishing you were here next to me.” He uses “ass” as a catch-all but that text kind of sums up our recent history. LOL. I could have smoothed things over then but I replied “Let me know if that translates to “I’m sorry for…” (Elaborating the obvious again!!!) That’s when I went NC out of mortification over my predicament. He’s been bad and getting worse. I didn’t expect him to not answer and go NC/disappear on me, though!
Here’s my issue – we’ve been doing the on/off dance almost a year since I moved out and he had a new gf for a while but this is the first time we’ve both been silent for so long. I’m sure he has some gf or he wouldn’t let go of his FBG so easily but I know I he’ll come back looking for ego/sex and am pretty sure he’ll try to charm/worm his way back in. So even though I’m NC, it’s hanging over my head bc I have all of the tool’s tools and owe him money to be paid in the future so staying entirely NC won’t be possible. Withdrawal is painful and I’m not functioning well yet. I don’t want to be friends with an AC with so little respect and empathy but, when I do hear from him again, I don’t know what I’ll do onward… I am 51 now and not who I was and can’t imagine dating. He was a MM EU player when we met (I was an EU player, too, just in it for fun.) I was the OW when he divorced. I had a “nervous breakdown” and he let me move in but it wasn’t normal. We’d been having fun- nice dinners, hot sex, hanging out, daily phone calls between blow ups again but it was taking its toll on my remaining self-esteem. Can’t go backwards. I want and deserve respect, care and love now. I know he can’t provide it and know all the sh*t he put me thru but I still crave a little taste of that dangerous drug to take the edge off. Ugh.
FX
It’s not taking the edge off, it IS the edge. Of a precipice. Get a friend to drop the tools off if they mean that much. Send him the money when you get it. Apart from that, NC. Nothing else.
Thank you Grace. I know you are right. In my stronger moments, I tell myself that he gave up the right to anything from me and I will not be available in any way to him ever again. I think a lot of my missing him is that I lost my social life when I isolated myself due to my “breakdown.” It didn’t seem to be caused by him then but in retrospect, the anxiety I feel now reminds me of that time and so I think he probably was a key factor. I don’t have any close friends around – and lost my mojo to get out and meet people and was too dependent on him as my social support. I now have an interesting job and the opportunity to meet people again so I need to build on that. (I actually think my increased independence may be related the the escalation in the AC’s bad behavior.) My daughter and mother are my best friends and they both have been urging me to get him out of my life for years which should tell me something huge! Yes, I will stay NC and hope the endless conversations I have with him in my head stop soon. He doesn’t deserve the space in my brain let alone my life.
After 2 years my AC contacted me wanting to be friends and I took the bait thinking OMG he wants me, my world is now complete. Boy was I wrong and stupid. Nothing changed. He blew hot and cold, disappeared for days, never responded back to me, offered me his time only when convenient for him and, of course, offered me the package that he was carrying in his pants. Ended up chasing him again, stroking his ego big time. You would think I would have learned. I did this time and my wakeup call was when he walked out on me shortly (and I mean shortly after we had sex). Got up, went to the bathroom, and left. That was it for me. When I told him I no longer wanted to spend time with someone who thinks so little of me he said “what do you mean? I stayed and talked to you for 45 minutes afterwards”. (more like 15). Big of him, huh? Won’t ever again play the friend card. BTW, the package he offered was good but not that great and it’s going to be under someone else’s Christmas tree this year. Poor girl who unwraps that one. Natalie: Just ordered your book. Can’t wait to read it.
Natalie why do ACs always have harems? Why can’t/ don’t other women see what complete jerks these men really are?
Hi Fedup,
I’m not Natalie, but I have been thinking about harems a bit lately.
My ex eum has two harems. The first harem in my opinion is made of women he would like to date or have sex with if I’m blunt about it. He gathers this harem around himself once a month. (he invites them whether him or them are in a relationship)) He is their listening ear as they pour their troubles out to him, he advises them blah blah. They stroke his ego by telling him what a great listener and advisor he is etc. they haven’t dated him and I doubt he would sit spilling out about he treats the women he does date. So they don’t see him as an assclown. I didn’t see him interact with this harem as a whole but I saw him one on one with a few of them and from that I drew my own conclusions. One of them in particular would never date him but knows he would like to date her so uses that to her advantage. He often invites members of this harem to high class events so again he looks great.
The second harem he has is smaller it is made up of exes who have dated him, and obviously he only catches up with this one in a one on one basis. This harem is established because he gets to say wow I am a great guy look how many exes stay in touch how many I catch up with. He is very careful none of us ever meet up with others. These women don’t want to see the truth of his behaviour though Im sure deep down they know very well what an ass clown he is, but due to their own issues continue on in some sort of freindship.
FedUp
I expect the women have their own issues too. Such as a need for male attention ( it’s biologically natural esp when you’re young). Thinking that they’re the exception (he’s different with me). Or thinking he’ll change (we’ve all done that!). Thinking a bit too much of themselves (I’m so cool a mere man isn’t going to hurt me). Or it’s just not a big deal – maybe THEY have a harem of male admirers/”friends” so it doesn’t make any difference if one or two of them is a twit. Or they’re shallow and don’t think about it. Or they’re boundaries are so firm, they’re unaffected. Or they don’t fancy him so they’re not bothered.
But the key is not to be distracted about what other people do and to ask ourselves, what do I do, and does it make ME happy? And if not happy, does it at least line up with my values?
Harems are about attention/validation/security on both sides. Both men and women utilize so many tools to get and take attention to make themselves feel good. I did it. We all have ego and all do things to make ourselves feel good, it’s human. It’s been a real life lesson for me to see how I was allowing myself to be used in a tradeoff for attention that I spun into “love”. I also had to look at all the things I was doing and who I was using in order to avoid lonliness, to feel like I was popular, busy. If I was alone then that must mean nobody loved me. If I was out all the time then I was loved, fun, popular. I never had to face those crap feelings of nobody loves me… I made sure of it by constantly going out, calling people, texting, partying. I couldn’t be alone. It’s so clear to me now but for so long I was in a fog. I can attest… this self love stuff is not easy but oh how grateful I am to have evolved. Hardest work I ever did… but the best payoff ever. Oddly as a result, my anger and sadness for the last EUM has turned to gratitude… silent gratitude but gratitude nonetheless. I’m sure if it wouldn’t have been him it could have been someone else, quite positive of that but still… that guy actually did me a huge favor.
Remember the attached guy from Kansas? Poet-host? He has been pressuring me to set up an event for him here in my town. Now he has something set up (not through me) and what do I do? Offer him a place to stay (he had been asking for that before, too). NONE of my friends, who heard about his MM-like inappropriate ways, think I will be remiss in uninviting him. I will uninvite him.
Though, stickily, I need him to do a report on my trip and have been putting off asking him because I just don’t want to be in touch with the guy. It’s not quite him keeping a foothold, but I certainly am shocked at myself to watch me bend down and be submissive, and blurt out an offer I don’t at all mean, almost like it’s automatic, in this situation. He really does press on the buttons of politeness and wanting to be gracious, and I am really surprised at myself to find that saying no – even over email – in a way that would indicate my displeasure is VERY difficult.
Maybe you also remember the student-host’s comment to me about training people (women) like dogs? Not meaning to be hard on myself, I really did react like a trained animal with my knee-jerk socially acceptable offer.
It helps me in my understanding to think that some ACs count on exactly this. When I think back to how I often felt my ex expected me to sit up, roll over, and wag my tail at his approach like a trained animal, it really does help me get a (revolting) perspective on the way these guys think. Unfortunately as women (and I think we probably can all say we’ve witnessed this in other women, if not in ourselves) we ARE socially trained to react in very submissive, agreeable and demure ways to male attention, to their deep voices, to their often larger presences, etc. I watched it recently with a relative: when her husband used a commanding tone you’d use with a child or a pet, she just went docile. She would never have reacted that way to the same command from a woman.
Sometimes when these guys keep getting in touch, really, all they’re looking for is the equivalent of you wagging your tail. (I also think this has something to do with guys having bodies that DO betray when they really “like” a woman.) If they can see that your behaviour betrays that you are still into them, still jumping up when they call, still barking when they tease you with a stick (aka sweet nothings), that’s…
Hey Magnolia,
I’ve wanted to get back to your post. I do remember Poethost from this summer. His interaction with you sent my alarm bells ringing because attached guys seem to read from the same play book. I seem, unfortunately, to have a Phd in attached guys. Stay strong when he comes to town. Get what you need from him professionally. Poethost has a live in gf who he seemed to forget about when he came sniffing around at midnight with a bottle-o-wine. Nuff said, right? Attached guys=red alert, right? Do guys have better sex than we do?
… a stick (aka sweet nothings), that’s ALL they’re looking for.
I’m also reminded of how the ex once told me he knew I liked him because of how I swayed my hips when I got up from the table to go the ladies room. He said it gloatingly, like I had been unable to hide how I felt. Personally my memory of that moment, of my intentions and inner thoughts, is different, but he was right that he had captured my interest at that point. It just later made me want to puke a little that to him it was all about “reading me” and feeling he’d “got me.”
I have also heard men express on various occasions that women *like* to be treated poorly and *it keeps them coming back for more.* If these douches can get that feeling of dominating us without even being in a relationship, i.e. treating us poorly with even less effort than before and yet still hearing from us and getting to feel like a bad, bad bad boy that women can’t resist, it’s no wonder they try to keep harems, and keep their half-assed footholds in our lives.
Okay, blog-hog lecture on Magnolia’s theory of why-ACs-bother-to-still-come-around-to-treat-you-poorly over.
Tulipa, thankyou for replying what you said makes alot of sense. I just didn’t get how the harem don’t want to date the ACs, yet continue with their BS “friendship” and the ACs BS in general.
I think of one particular girl in his harem of girls hed like to date and if those two dated it wouldn’t last long 3 months is his general mo then they’d break up, but the friendship balance would now be altered. For her being in his harem she gets work out of him, she gets dinner or lunch with him, she has a free ear to tell her relationship woes to, free advice and invites to places she couldnt afford to go. He gets to hang around someone he would like to date but she won’t but he gets to tell her in all kinds of ways what a great bloke he is, and maybe just maybe oneday he will be granted a proper date. I think it works more to her advantage than his and looking back now I just smile, but one time I was furious that those two acted like they were on a date when I was actually his date, and it also makes me smile to know he will never have her. To me they just don’t bullshit them in the same way they do those they date.
Natalie can you please make a post about what to do with mutual friends after a AC breakup. Do you cut them off or continue being friends with them?
If you check your email you will have got a link to the article on it from the NC email.
I’ll respond to more comments later – my iPhone keeps crashing.
Song: Lemme be something sung by Shel Silverstein, couldn’t find a video link 🙁 – The whine of a guy who wants to hang around in every capacity possible if you allow, never fails to crack me up, so here we go:
Now if I can’t be your hotdog lemme be your little weiner
Baby if I can’t be your regular man lemme be your in betweener
And if I can’t be your human torch lemme be your submariner
Well hey baby don’t you leave me this way lemme be somethin’
Yeah If I can’t be your Abercrombie bitch lemme be your five and tener
If I can’t be your all-the-time lemme be your now-and-thenner
And if I can’t be your now-and-thenner lemme be your you-tell-me-whenner
Mmm hey baby don’t you leave me this way lemme be somethin’
And if I can’t be your datenut bread lemme be your soda cracker
And if I can’t be your boom-a-dee boom lemme be your clickity clacker
And if I can’t be your seven-course meal lemme be your midnight snacker
Yeah baby don’t you leave me this way lemme be somethin’
Yeah if I can’t be your lovey-dovey lemme be your flirty-flirty
And if I can’t be your orchestra lemme be your little hurdy gurdy
And if I can’t be your Mr Clean lemme be your Mr Dirty
Oh hey baby don’t you leave me this way lemme be somthin’
Hey if I can’t be your Sunday man lemme be your Monday action
Yeah well if I can’t be your big big show lemme be your coming attraction
And if I can’t be your coming attraction lemme be your momentary satisfaction
Yeah well hey baby don’t you leave me this way lemme be somethin’
And if I can’t be your bombardier let me be your tail gunner
If I can’t be your serious love lemme be your just-for-funner
And if I can’t be your big collision lemme be your hit-and-runner
Yeah well hey baby don’t you leave me this way lemme be somethin’
This is absolutely hysterical. Gonna have to look this up after work. Perfect ass-wipe theme song.
Another good one is ‘Give Me One Reason’ by Tracy Chapman. That’s on repeat. Or ‘I Don’t Want Love’ by the Antlers. Or… so many more!
Today my ex-assclown started poking around on facebook, because apparently people can still post comments on your pictures even if they are no longer friends, as long as they are tagged in it. It was some pathetic cry for attention about the dog that he mentally tortured me over for a year, about how much he misses him.
Instead of being grown-up and saying nothing, I responded with a hilarious e-card about how I told our dog he died. Then he responded with some thinly-veiled insult, and I broke that comment with a threat to block-delete, again. He said nothing (there was nothing he could say, it was so perfect).
I know I should have said nothing, but in the last few months of the last four years that we’ve been broken up, I find it hilarious to respond to his contact-attempts by dissing him hardcore in a hilarious way. Is this wrong? I know I’m still fairly angry at him… but I find this the most constructive and useful way to indicate to him that I no longer want to communicate.
Janie
You’re still playing the game and you may even be winning. I admit the scenario is funny but … ignoring is safest and the best way to move on.
Ah the friend card. Ex tried to pull that with me immediately after I dumped him, and I stupidly agreed to it. And lunch the next day? Sure, why not, that’s what friends do right? Lunch turns to drinks, a few hours later.. Can I spend the night for old times sake? No sex, I just want to lay next to you? Umm…I guess so? Tries to screw me- Oh HELL NO!! Proceeded to cut contact 100 percent.
His attempts to ‘keep tabs’ quickly turned into stalking. And car damage. And weird shit left on my porch. And a not-so-friendly surprise visit at 1 am. And having to move from my home out of fear. And 3 months of in and out of court with 2 attys and overwhelming evidence only to be denied an order of protection because the bastard is in law enforcement. To have gone through all of that and then having my rights to a free and fair hearing taken away from me was like being raped- by far the worst day of my life.
I now equate men trying to play the ‘friend card’ (i.e. staying in your life despite the fact that you don’t want them in your life) as the worst type of sociopath out there. Think about it: they want to take away your right to decide who is in your life and who isn’t, and in their mind it is their decision to make, not yours. And in my case, when I stood firm and didn’t allow him to be the ‘driver’ of my life, I had hell to pay.
Ladie, like Kanye said, “Baby I got a plan. Run away as fast as you can.”
Hello everyone, this blog has helped me immensely over the last 2 months. Right now I’m dealing with an ex who I can’t tell if he’s just trying to keep a foothold or if he really wants to change.
My relationship ended in August after a very intense 1.5 years. My ex is a neighbor, he is 29 and I am 33. We had known each other for over a year as acquaintances until the timing was right, and when it was, we were off to the races and established a relationship quickly. In the first month or two, I was feeling so secure and comfortable that I divulged a LOT of my past to him — the good the bad and the ugly, in some instances. In hindsight I think I was displaying insecurity when I did this. He shared a lot with me as well, and never indicated that anything that I said bothered him. Regardless, we fell very much in love — I never felt so cherished and I never longed for someone so much — and in hindsight we did smother each other a bit. Anyway, about five months into the relationship he started verbally attacking me over my past. He would have some sort of outburst about every 2 months (sometimes alcohol related), telling me I “had too much experience”, that it was “not his style”, obsessing about feeling inferior to my exes for crazy reasons, etc. It gutted me because this is the same guy who acted like he worshiped me the other 90% of the time. When I should have walked away, I stayed, I guess out of shock and to prove him wrong with my love. His verbal abuse made me doubt myself and feel guilt, and I became very anxious and critical of him and I was controlling at times — I guess my way of revenge. In the meantime, we still maintained this (unhealthy) serious, intimate, practically living-together relationship where he mentioned marriage and a family constantly.
By this past July we were still a fully functioning couple but the relationship was so strained by verbal abuse and bad behavior (in the last 2 months, he stood me up for an entire night, as well as had a drunken night out where a woman acquaintance crashed at his house — nothing happened but I was disgusted), not to mention nitpicking by me due to immense stress and self doubt over his not fully accepting me. I was a mess, having absorbed so much and dealt with tactics like the silent treatment, him walking out on arguments, vulgar language, and his constant bringing up…
my past whenever we fought. The final straw was when he, drunk, yelled at me in a bar in July about my past (I had asked him to slow his drinking) and I got up and walked away. The next month was a back and forth battle (I said I would not go on with the relationship unless the verbal abuse stopped) and he ended up coming around saying he would change. Then he disappeared for 5 weeks- nothing! Then he started texting, and I ignored and finally said that if he can’t talk constructively, to stop contacting me. He backpedaled and said he wanted to talk. We scheduled and I canceled-was afraid of getting hurt. He wrote back this self-pitying email about how I’m the one that got away and he’s sorry he can’t be the man I need. I wrote back with some choice words, which really pissed him off. That was it for a week. Saw him on the street a week later and he expressed a desire to talk and “get to the root” of what went wrong. My therapist suggested we talk in her office, and I asked and he agreed. We met up Sunday to chat a bit (5 hours) and ease the tension. He told me he wants to work on things, but that he feels he knows too much about my past and it led to the abuse. Monday at therapy he talked about how he obsesses over it TO THIS DAY and wishes he told me to stop telling him things. He said he felt like I wasn’t attracted to him anymore in the last year, and how he felt highly criticized by me. He cried and said he has not lost any love for me. Wants to go back to therapy with me and he wouldn’t be there if he didn’t want us to try and work things out. But I haven’t heard from him since. I’m not going to talk him into continuing this. I’m very aware of the damage he’s done, and that he is very insecure. He let things that I said almost 2 yrs ago manifest in ways as to hurt me, and end our relationship. I do feel guilty for sharing so much info about my past with him. Perhaps not doing so could have saved us both pain. Why did he walk away and why can’t he just get over his issues? I’m a fantastic woman (with some admitted self esteem issues I am working on). He always said he would never leave-he did, and now he’s back-kind of. Should I have any faith now, since he’s gone to therapy with me and expressed desire to work on things? I just wish he would go away for good if he can’t get over his insecurities. I refuse to feel shame about my past…
Seeing
A five hour chat! A visit to the therapist. A proposed return visit to the therapist. Maybe, the answer isn’t more talking and you should just turf him out of your life. For all the talking, he’s still displaying classic EU behaviour – disappearing, texting, disappearing.
It doesn’t matter how fantastic you are. Kylie is fantastic, so is Helena Christiansen, Tina Tuner, Halley Berry, Marilyn Monroe, Jennifer Aniston, Diana Spencer – all have been maltreated by men.
Being fantastic is no guarantee that a man will treat you right. It doesn’t let us off the hook. We still have to exercise our judgement and know when. to. call. it. a. day.
Why did he walk away and why can’t he just get over his issues? He is a separate human being and that’s his choice. Whether he is allowed to keep popping in and out of your life is entirely YOUR choice.
Grace,
Thanks for your response. You have a great point about cutting him off. I really think that is the only way out of this cycle of pain and frustration.
I didn’t mean to sound “I’m so great, how on EARTH could he leave?” I know wonderful women are mistreated all the time. Just simply stating that this is the man who told me for well over a year how much he loved me and how beautiful and perfect (I didn’t like when he called me perfect) and amazing I was; that he couldn’t wait to start a family together and suggested on a daily basis that he was ready for me to move in… then bailed for well over a month when I put my foot down on his abuse- and now has a litany of complaints about me. On the flip side, I can’t believe the verbal abuse I endured at times from the same ‘loving’ mouth.
That he, who lives 2 blocks from me, can look me in the eye now and say he wants to work things out and then disappeared again for a week! Aside from telling him that of course I missed the good times, and that the last couple of months have been hell for me, I’ve stayed strong and spoken with incredulity and anger to him for all of our in-person contact. I did say that we will never be friends, and the only condition of being in contact would be rebuilding our relationship… so maybe it’s just the textbook EUM… hot and cold… everything on his terms… saying things in the moment. Oh, and without texting, he’s got nothing! It’s just mind boggling, the carelessness. Thanks again.
@Nat: You’re certainly right, reading books is no excuse for not going NC. That needs to be done ASAP if you figure out you’ve been abused by a narcissist.
Anyway, I went NC with my narc mother years ago without even knowing about narcissism. Unfortunately, I went on suffering because I still blamed myself believing I was the crazy one (as I’d been told so many times) and not her. I refused to get counselling because I believed all therapists would be just like her, trying to teach me to put up with perversities, hatred and ridicule without even getting angry – basically trying to kill all that was ME!
It took me one year of reading about narcissism until I gained enough trust to even try counselling. Therefore I think reading about personality disorders isn’t always a bad approach.
Natalie Thankyou for the link. I just still don’t understand why everyone chose my ex ACs side and not mine. While I got ostracizied and dumped by everyone. I never felt so betrayed in all my life. A friend of mine said that I should’ve kept in contact with the mutual friends and not cut them off. Then I would’ve had some support and they could see what a prick this guy really is. I just don’t see the point in doing the right thing anymore, when I get screwed over like this. What do I do if I ever run into these people again? I still want revenge. I still hope that he screws them all over. I don’t understand how an AC who is a complete bastard, be really popular and have so many friends.
These ACs seem to get off scot free no matter what. I won’t forgive the mutual friends either. If he was cheating on me, they probably knew about it and never told me. Two faced people. I hope the same thing happens to them, I really do.
fedup
How long have you been feeling this resentment? It’s very natural and nothing wrong with it per se it but at some point we have to ask yourself if we’re stuck. At the risk of sounding like an elderly aunt – it only hurts you. Like you said, he doesn’t care and the friends don’t care. Or, to be more charitable, the friends don’t see it as their business.
By focusing on their wrongdoing (and, yes, he was wrong), we can’t move on. It’s just another way of putting them in the centre of our lives. Instead of waking up and loving them, or waking up and wondering how to make them love us, or waking up and feeling sad about them, we move to waking up and hating them. It’s still making them the centre of our lives.
I hesitate to put a timeframe on it, but having been BURNED by obsessions with exes, I would tentatively suggest that if it’s been six months since your break up and there’s no let up in the intensity of your pain (whether it be crying, anger, resentment, grief) that it’s time to instigate a rescue plan for yourself.
Starting with total NC and nuke the mutual friendships if you have to. Drastic times call for drastic measures.
Leave him to karma, to God, or to natural justice – you don’t have the power or the time to deal with it!
“If you eventually move from very negative to positive again, which confirms your interest and validates their ego, they’ll bail or turn into Mr Not So Interested.”
I sucked it and saw. This also happened in 24 freakin’ hours! Ridiculous. I want to cry but instead I’m going to blast out my Douchebag Playlist and keep rebuilding. My epiphany is that I CAN opt out. I don’t have to carry this hurt like a millstone. His Friend Card is revoked.
D,
Hang in there. I’m in the same boat. Hold Strong. Suck and saw it and now miserable. Hang tough you can do it.
I don’t know where Natalie gets her wisdom from, but this post is SPOT ON.
My 3.5 year relationship with an a**clown ended about three months ago. During that time I slowly discovered that the reason his mobile phone was constantly attached to his hip like another appendage is because he has a long list of women in various stages :
– the ex (the one before me), in a holding pattern (she thought he was going to return to marry her), he regularly contacts her even after 4 years, goes to see her as a ‘friend’ perhaps once every two/three months. He knows she’s still hoping that ‘things will work out’.
– the newbie on the scene, he’s texting her secretly so her partner doesn’t find out, trying to meet her during the work day. He’s known her for 2 years and I never knew a thing (until recently) …He’s been telling her that he’s not happy with me (of course, he didn’t tell ME that). He’s getting ready to swoop in. She’s flattered, but doesn’t realize she isn’t the only one. There are at least 2 other newbies in similar holding patterns.
– there are a number of ex ex’s. He contacts them on their birthdays and other important days telling them that he has ‘happy memories’ of particular events and times. Implicitly implying that he STILL isn’t happy in his life. They probably think that he wishes he was back with them. The texts are designed to make them feel that way.
-then there are a couple of women who never quite made it to the ‘girlfriend’ stage but are FWB and are used for dry spells or when he is having an argument/disagreement with his current relationship.
– then there’s ME. The most recent ex. I’ve recently informed him that I’m going NC in order to move on. I know that he doesn’t believe me..I know that he’s simply going to put me on to the next stage of his ‘holding pattern’.
Ladies, when your ex has shown you the red flags of an a**clown know this: it is all about HIM and feeding his ego. He is not capable of thinking about YOU. For whatever reason, he is very damaged.. Don’t be just another name in his Inbox.
I totally agree! It feels almost like for so many women (or men… or I could just speak for myself), red flags aren’t so much warning beacons as lightbulbs we gravitate to like moths… .
I’ve personally had enough. I can’t heal, cosset or mollycoddle someone into loving me. I can’t throw the kitchen sink at someone who can’t even stay inside my boundaries.
I actually visited this really cool site, called Emotional Bag Check, where you can either “check” your baggage–write a note about whatever’s bothering you anonymously, and another user will read it and send you a message with a song. Or you can ‘carry’ someone’s baggage and do the same for them, anonymously. I carried some baggage and checked mine in and got a really nice message from someone that put everything I think into perspective.
The assclown I’m embroiled with is so caught up on keeping me on side for whatever he can get that we don’t even have a relationship. I’m so frazzled by keeping track of his crazy theatrics that I’m not in it for the right reasons either. And I’ve realised that while i’m so busy holding onto him like he’s the last man on Earth… I’m missing out. the idea of missing out on love doesn’t convince me deep down, but you know what? I’m missing out on a happy, healthy life and loving myself.
If he can’t match up his actions with words, it’s his loss. If he doesn’t have time, I don’t either. It feels like such a hard road to be trudging through, back and forth. But I have to choose myself before I break down. xxx
D,
You’re on the right track in looking for actions instead of words. That’s what I keep reminding myself when I ask questions about my ex out loud… “Why did he say this and do that?” etc.
“I’m missing out on a happy, healthy life and loving myself.” So true. I was doing NC pretty successfully for a while there… even though I was hurting tremendously, I was getting better slowly but surely, and focusing on myself — and I went for a couple weeks without crying — until I gave in and let us have a ‘talk’ at his request. He also came to my therapist with me. He claims to want to work on things and some may see the therapy as progress, but honestly, having him back in contact is hurting me more than anything (now I haven’t heard from him in 5 days!), so I think I am going to go NC again.
We are addicted to hope and bread crumbs, and as long as they are around, we can’t fully respect ourselves. Ask yourself… do you really want to live like this, with a man who’s not putting you first? And go from there. Love yourself.
Seeing,
Your comment “We are addicted to hope and bread crumbs” might as well have been in BIG RED FLASHING LIGHTS going off just for me. I’m on here looking for courage and wisdom to finally go NC myself when I came across your posting. To date, I haven’t been able to make it past 5 days of NC, but still trying. I always have that hope that things will change, he will change, he’ll finally realize how he feels for me, etc. That has been the hardest part honestly to me is “hoping”. That word used to be filled with happiness and potential but now has a much different meaning. My EUC is someone I’ve been trying to break away from for over 3yrs, but I haven’t been strong enough to do it yet…always taking the crumbs he gives and hoping for more to come from it. It’s difficult when I know he would be just fine not communicating with me…there would be no late night texts, or calls asking me to return. You see, I’m the OW (although we were childhood sweethearts) and he certainly doesn’t put me first and realistically I know he shouldn’t. I think that’s what hurts the most, knowing when I shut the door, it will be closed for good. Someone doesn’t even see me as being worth having back even as a FBG. Good luck to you on your journey and positive thoughts headed your way!
Complicated, as Seeing has said. “Love yourself”. I am ever more convinced that this is the way – the only way, to get beyond all of this. Please take note of all Nat’s posts and other literature in her books on self-esteem and validation seeking etc.
We stay stuck because we imagine we need the validation from the EUM/MM/AC – we are worth nothing, nada, zilch, unless they notice us/pay us attention/love us/give us a crumb/show us we matter by sending a text/nodding in our direction/not telling us to piss off… and all blah.. blah. We need to be able to validate ourselves! Until you recognise that YOU are your own problem here and it’s you who needs to address YOU (not him) you will be forever begging for a crumb from this guy or another guy or another until you finally learn to KNOW your own worth; people who know there own worth walk away from crumbs, they do not sit about weeping cos the crumb didn’t get chucked their way today nor do they whine and pine for another crumb from anyone, never mind an arrogant, cheating fecker. You need to address your sense of self worth / self esteem; this is the crux of the problem; if you really thought more of yourself you would not be in this position.Understand this: the value you are placing on you is the same as value he is placing on you – they are connected! You are communicating your value TO HIM. So why complain about him not valuing you when you are the one who is telling him/showing him that this is all you are worth?
Start with complaining to yourself – you are the one who is de-valuing you; he is going along with your own appraisal of yourself, and why would he not – what else has he got to go on? Wishing you good luck!
A few posts mention EU or otherwise not so great friends, and it’s something I’ve been giving some thought to lately. I’ve had a couple of friends fade out and I’m a bit puzzled by it. The 1st is a guy friend who has become a bit of an unreliable jerk now that he has a girlfriend. When we first met I think he was interested, but I mentioned that I had a bf right away and he backed off. We never flirted and there wasn’t anything more to it. We became good friends–talked a lot and hung out a fair bit, he was easy going, and I thought we were good friends–he was considerate, etc. When he did mention his romantic life it was odd….in his late 30s he’s only ever had one girlfriend and apparently wasn’t that into her or kind to her, and just has no strings attached sexual relationships it seems. I didn’t care to discuss it with him much, but whenever he spoke of anything like this I thought “yep, definitely not anyone I’d set a friend up with”. But thought I could classify him as a friend who just isn’t a good bf-type to women. With his now gf, it started out as a “we have rules in place, this is just sex” thing, but now they’re dating and it sounds like he really likes her. I was happy for him that he seemed to have a normal dating life. I’m not surprised that he may be less available now that he’s dating someone, but he also doesn’t return calls, is generally a bit of a jerk, and only suggests hanging out now if it’s something he’s already doing with a group. I’m disappointed, b/c I thought we were good friends….I also don’t fully understand it. I can see being caught up in spending most of his time with the new gf, but talking or meeting for a bite once a month or so doesn’t seem like that high of an expectation.
The second friend is a woman who I was very close to. We had an eery sort of parallel going on in terms of what was happening with the EU men in each of our lives. She would talk about how I was one of her best friends and how much she missed me (different cities) but now that she’s started a new job and (last I heard) decided to move on from her EU, she’s been really curt when I’ve been in touch and now hasn’t responded to a couple of emails suggesting catching up/planning a visit. Maybe I’m a reminder of the EU?
I guess I just wanted to see if anyone on here may have some insight. Are these friends just EU as…
well? Am I attracting the wrong sort of friends? She has gone from telling me how I’m one of her best friends to being incommunicado for long stretches in the past. It doesn’t really make sense to me, and if she is upset about something or if this has to do with the EU man situation, I would hope if we’re good friends that she could just talk to me about it. I know I can’t really know what goes on in the minds of others, and I’m trying to just leave it be, but I do still think about it and would like to have a better understanding of these things.
A
I guess the male friend (and/or his g/friend) a) doesn’t see it as appropriate for him to hang out with another girl on a one-to-one basis. I would agree with that. b) Now that he has an actual g/friend and not a faux one, you as the ‘stand in’ has outlived your usefulness. He’ll be happy to get back to the one-to-one thing with you if and when he finds himself single again.
I think your chats and closeness with the female friend has gone for a burton for exactly the reasons you say – she has moved on from the EU crap and so she doesn’t want to chat about it anymore or be reminded of it and it is that which you had in common. You don’t anymore. She has moved on. Simples. Let her.
Grace I have had resentment from day 1. And I have tried therapy, not that it helped much.
Fedup
grace is right. You need to put some serious, permanent and total distance between you and this guy and these mutual friends (the friends may not be meaning any harm – but nevertheless there very existence in the whole thing is affecting you very badly – so drop the whole lot of them and move right along to new pastures).
I have read this a couple of times now and it describes both of my previous relationships.
The one before last I non longer have contact with bu only becuase I changed my number and email and moved house (to a different country). The most recent still tries on occasion, usually with some sort of flirty text at silly o’clock in the morning or just turning up at my appartment drunk after a night out. He will then spout all the usual BS about how he feels about me etc and I would fall for it, conviently forgetting that he broke up with me firstly because he “wasn’t ready” for a new relationship and the second time to go back to his Ex.
I don’t intiate contact with him but sometimes end up at the same bar on night out due to having mutual friends and living in a very small place so limited places to go, and he will then play the “friend” card very well.
Luckily I am moving again in a few months to start a new job in yet another new country so won’t have to worry about any late night visits.
Fearless,
I’m happy that the female friend has moved on from the EU. She deserved better. But we were friends long before the EU’s, and there are much better things we can still talk about. I would hope that end of the EU wouldn’t mean the end of the friendship. And who knows, it may not even be about that.
As for the guy, maybe that is how he saw it–his female friends as stand in faux gf’s, I don’t know. Or he may be one of those people (male or female) who ditches their friends, be it same sex or opposite, when in a relationship.
I have male friends who I meet up with for coffee or a bite to eat once in a while. Their partners are fully aware and fine with it b/c the friendship is purely platonic (and sometimes the partners come for the bite to eat as well). I’ve maintained these friendships while in a relationship and my bf was ok with it–he knew all about who the friends are, when I meet them, and had met them himself. There is no flirting going on, and I never treated them as confidantes about my relationship (or vice versa). I disagree that it’s disrespectful to meet up with someone of the opposite sex one-on-one when you’re in a relationship if it truly is harmless. (And as for this friend, I don’t get the sense that he is of this view, nor that his girlfriend is).
A, I think that this is one of those classic examples where you’re investing brain energy into investigating and thinking about something where the topline information is pretty obvious. Hung out before he got a girlfriend, now he has one he’s no longer hanging out. He might be busy, he may no longer have a need for you or assume by your eagerness for friendship that you’ll still be there when he chooses to reach out. He may even see the friendship differently to you. It doesn’t matter what you do with all of these other male friends – it’s not what he’s doing with you. He doesn’t ‘owe’ you a meetup once a month. Genuine organic friendships don’t have those sorts of schedules. You may not realise it but you’re behaving like an ‘ex’ who has been told you’re still friends and then they move on and they suddenly go ‘dark’. Topline info is he’s very busy since he started this relationship. You have a lot of other friends from the sound of it – put your energies there and leave him be. It will show itself and resolve itself one way or another. Bad enough to be a worrying Fallback to someone you had a relationship with, so don’t do it with friendships with Mr Unavailables…
Personally, though it hurts. I think it’s a flat out pride and ego bruising issue. You know he doesn’t want to be your friend…and making a regular scheduled ‘meetup’ won’t make you feel better. It will feel forced. You know, the weird thing is when things have ended sourly with other exes, after time they’ve come back and it took me much longer but after some time I was ready as well to be friends. The feelings were gone and hence the friendship flowed naturally. I’m in the exact same boat…and I know I keep wondering why not a friendship…but if I’m honest…my ego is bruised. Cuz i still care.
Hi Anari,
In my case the guy friend was always just a friend–it’s not an ex-to-friend scenario. The “once a month” thing was really just an example–i.e. if we’re friends we would still talk/meet up once in a while even if he is busy & excited about a new relationship. I don’t have a schedule in mind. It’s irked me a bit, but more had me wondering if we were ever friends or if there was always something a bit off….or whether his not treating women he was involved with all that well was a red flag in terms of having a friendship with him. Either way, I’ve left it alone.
Thanks, Nat. I have left this one alone–tried a few times with the guy friend, then just dropped it. Reading this blog and thinking about things with the EU has me re-evaluating all kinds of relationships….I’m trying to see the bigger picture so I can work on what I need to do differently. I guess I’m having a hard time deciphering when things should be put down to being “just life” and when I should be learning a lesson.
I’m truthfully more upset about the situation with my female friend. I’ve left that situation alone as well for the time being and I suppose I should just continue to leave it–though I have moments where I wonder if I should send an email to reach out.
A,
I commented to your post above.
I have cut the ex and mutual friends off. They wouldn’t even tell me if he was heating on me- highly likely considering threat I got dumped. They’ll all married and engaged- they don’t understand at all, they’re all in the honeymoon stage. So much for their friendship! It defies any logic to me. Ive been going to a therapist a long time but it seems to be a complete waste of money.
Oh my… it’s like NML is my guardian angel or something because it seems everytime I have something fishy going on from my ex AC, Nat is there with an article that sums up exactly what I am going through. THANK YOU Nat.
Ex AC has most definitely been keeping tabs on me. Heck he called and hung up on my work voicemail about 24 times in the past 2 years. I am proud of myself because I ignored this. I am teetering on the edge of perhaps insanity because I have actually had contact with him (although it is only because he works in the building beside me and works for the same company- can’t avoid him all the time). I have been pleasant when I ran into him (although running over him crossed my mind too) Anyway, he has been doing what Nat describes – getting ahold of me whenever he can (I never initiate it) & he has even made up bogus reasons to come into my building to see me. He actually even had the gall to phone me and ask about my cell phone and whether I had changed my number (yeah duh I changed it immediately after I found out he was an ass). I have been dealing with him using comedy… I have lied to him … which is something that I normally do not do in my life but I feel that I don’t respect him so why not lie?! He called me 3 weeks ago, from an unknown number (and yes, if I was smart or stronger I would just hang up) and said that he wants to “have that talk”. (I am thinking, oh, yeah, you mean the talk I asked to have with you 2 years ago but instead you treated me like crap and pretended I wasn’t alive… OH that talk… NOW you’re ready). Anyway, I just played along with him, told him it wasn’t necessary but if he wants to that it’s ok. Well, haven’t heard from him since. Not that it matters, I don’t care if I ever hear from him again. But like Nat says he got what he was looking for… an ego stroke… he got just enough from me to feel that somehow I still care (which I don’t) so now he can screw off & wait a few months to contact me again. I guess I’ll have the last laugh though because I will be moving within the next couple years & he ain’t getting a forwarding address. Good thing is, after a while you just don’t care anymore. I figure IF he does call, well let’s face it, he WILL call, he needs another ego stroke at some point, I am going to let him talk, then I am going to tell him that we never ever should have gotten involved…
Just wanted to say one more thing, if he starts chasing me after I tell him there is no way in hell I would ever get with him again, then good for him. He is going to be met by a BRICK WALL. I have found out through this whole debacle that he is going to do what he wants to do regardless of anything I DO or SAY – because he is extremely selfish & just an ASS. I have to always remember who I am dealing with… this man does NOT think like me or care for anyone but himself. He’s a beautiful shell with a grotesque interior.
Cheers,
TJ
I also posted on previous page and realized I should’ve done this at the end to get as much feedback as possible. Oh well, I’ve read several posts about being the OW to a MM and have been in the same boat myself….for 3 years now. I’ve even posted on “Return of the childhood Sweetheart” about this last year. It all started 3 years ago…after we went our separate ways 15 years ago after dating a few months. He led off with the I’ve missed you and things about you, blah blah, and I fell for it, went to see him (he lives in another country), you can guess what happened there, then had my heart broken after I returned….when he decided to ignore me and my texts for several months later. This happened two years in a row!! Now, I’m carrying the “friend card” not sure why, maybe because I’m hoping he’ll eventually feel the way about me that I do him. Which I know is wrong because he is married. I just thought it was possible since we had a history. As a “friend” (I guess, we’ve never discussed what we are), he initiates texts with me and we go back and forth ALL day EVERY day while he’s at work. Of course, I don’t hear from him at night or on weekends when he’s not working. He only talks to be about sports or to jokingly insult about my country’s faults. We basically just banter. I’ve been holding onto this as a “connection” since it was all I had, but now the “joking insults” and bantering aren’t funny anymore (because I want more than friendship..I wanted validation I guess that I meant something) and now I want to just forget about him. But, not having me in his life even as a “friend” makes me almost physically sick. I’ve spent WAY too much time, effort, and mental stability haha thinking and worrying over this situation. It hurts so bad knowing I’m in love with someone who doesn’t love me back or can’t even say it. Btw, I asked “How do you feel about me?” and he said “I’m not sure of my feelings to be honest.” Ugh…this is after us carrying on for 3 years!! Just last year he told me he could definitely love me..but can’t imagine saying that to someone else right now due to his current situation. Can you please tell me how to finally go NC and decide not even be his friend anymore??? I’ve purchased FBG last year and No Contact ebooks (this one just now). Thanks so much!!
Hi Complicated, I can tell you how to go NC and it isn’t complicated. YOU STOP ALL CONTACT with the MM. Block him, delete him, ignore him. Since you have Natalie’s fabulous NC ebook, you know what to do because she outlines it perfectly. (BTW, order the new edition of Mr. U and the FBG…Nat’s at her best in this one.) The problem, of course, is implementing Natalie’s NC guidelines. She’s outlined what to do perfectly clearly. It wasn’t complicated for me, it was painful. Therein lies the problem. Implementing NC hurts, it sucks, it’s painful, and it makes me angry that I endured such shite. When I read your story, I felt very sad for you. Your MM said “I’m not sure of my feelings to be honest.” That hurts. If you can muster the energy to go NC, it’ll hurt, it’ll suck at first but there really is life after being involved with a MM/AC/EUM. You are on the right track “and now I want to just forget about him.” Leave him to banter with his wife all day about sports and such. He is married. And not to y0u. I’m a recovering OW too. It sucks. But I’ll never be an OW again cos it sucks. OW’s can we unite? No more bantering, sexing, texting, emailing, being strung out on a limb of umteen years with a stupid MM? All MM’s get flushed!
Thanks runnergirl,
Well I didn’t have to worry about “going NC” with him because it’s been 3 days since I’ve heard from him. I’m not about to initiate contact with him…that is a HUUUGE step for me. You see, in 2009 and 2010 both, he went 6 months (each year because he says he didn’t know how to process what was going on between us) without sending or responding to my texts. When we reconciled last year, I told him I would never be there for him again if he just stopped communicating again so I’m working to keep that promise to myself. Just sucks and is painful because it seems just when I’m about to get all strong and go no contact…HE DOES IT FIRST! Ugh. Also, I can’t help but wonder if he is ok. Like I had said in my previous post, we talk all day everyday about life and sports (with him sending the first message) and now I’m hoping he’s ok. I even did the unthinkable…checked his FB page to see if there was any activity and there wasn’t. I wish I didn’t care so much for him and it was as easy for me to disconnect from him as it’s always been for him to disconnect from me. Well, I’m done ranting now haha…but it’s kept me from sending him a message so it’s well worth it. I would like to keep in touch so if you have any insight to give, please send it my way. This is agonizing! Kinda feels like internal bleeding since I’m trying not to share this with any of my local friends as they’re soooo tired of hearing about it. But, I have to get it out before it eats me alive.
PS. Natalie – if you see this, feel free to comment. I have sent so many women to your site. You are a godsend and I wish you many blessings for all the help you’ve given me and Many other women 🙂
Congratulations Complicated on 3 days of NC. It doesn’t matter who initiated it as long as you can stay strong and resist the urge to respond if he tries to make contact. Stick to your promise to yourself. Regarding your thoughts as to whether he is okay, he is okay. If he isn’t, he has a wife, right? You are the other woman who has been “demoted” to friend, if there is such a thing as a demotion for an OW.
Your description about how it feels like “internal bleeding” because you can’t share your grief is spot on. I agree about Natalie’s blog and all the wise folks who comment, it is a godsend. With each day of NC, it does get a little easier and less painful. Have you started a journal yet? Writing out what you are feeling is helpful to get it out. If you keep posting in your journal, it is also a helpful reminder when you are feeling nostalgic and it helps you track your healing process. I have some darn sad and angry posts in my journal and on this blog . Everyday you spend NC is a gift, although there are down days there are also okay days. Everday you spend as an OW/Friend is one more miserable day you are unavailable for yourself and a future healthy relationship with an available man. If you can, block him, delete him, and defriend him on FB. It took me a while to get to that stage but it is extremely helpful. Sending you some cyberstrength. I know it sucks. It is the only way. Keep reading Natalie’s stuff too.
Hi runnergirl,
Well today is day 5 o f no contact. Everyone has said it will get easier with each passing day, but I don’t feel any better. The tears started yesterday and I found myself going back through our last conversations this past Sunday. There was nothing unusual said. I just can’t seem to wrap my head around the fact that it has been 7 months since we have gone more than 2 days without talking and now it’s been 5 days, so i can’t help but wonder why he hasn’t at least contacted me. He wasn’t blowing hot and cold…he was consistently sending daily messages. So, I just don’t get it. I’m obviously not ready for no contact…but I will not be making contact with him if that makes any sense. I keep thinking maybe he got tired of doing all the initiating and is now waiting for me to do it and thinks “why hasn’t she contacted me?” Ugh. The mind games we play on ourselves. As always, any feedback you have is appreciated :). I know I’ll make it through, but right now it feels awful.
Hey Complicated,
Hang in there with NC and try as hard as you can not to think about why he isn’t contacting you. You’ve got to steel yourself to not respond if he does becuase as Natalie says in this post, he will be simply fishing around in order to keep you as an option or even less of an option since he’s only got the friend card on offer, if that. The thing I couldn’t get through my thick head was that he is MARRIED. If he really wanted to be with me like he said, his actions would have followed. On one of my early, teary days of NC and after hours on BR, I realized that I was sick to death of being an option but only I could change that. I envisioned myself NO. 1 which is the origin of runnergirlno1. Do you want to be NO. 1 or remain banging at the back door as a barely there OW hoping one day he’ll upgrade you? Please don’t get me wrong, I want to encourage you. However, every time I broke NC and responded to him (or worse initiated contact), it kept me stuck. Everytime he contacted me, I fantasized that this was it…he really can’t live without me, I’ll be NO.1 now! Everysingletime, I ended up sad and angry because is all he wanted was to know if I was still an option, NO. 2. At Nat says: “… he’s devised a number of means to attempt to maintain control even when the relationship is over. He can’t commit – whether it’s to being with you or leaving you the hell alone…” I had to finally break down and commit to me and that took some doing, including an awful “suck it and see” experience. I think you are ready for NC because you are here! Keep trying to envision being in a healthy relationship with someone who loves you where you are NO.1 Keep reading Natalie’s stuff and keep reading the comments from women (and men) who got to the other side. It will happen for us too. I’m not there yet but I know anything is better than being an OW. When I think about being an OW, I feel like I need to go take a hot, steamy shower to shower it off. Good luck. Keep posting, that helps too. Hugs.
Hi Runnergirl,
Well, I fell off the NC wagon. Ugh. I was only on it for 5 days before falling off. I contacted him to say that I haven’t heard from him and wanted to know if he was ok. Like I had previously mentioned, we were talking all day everyday so it was really bothering me that we hadn’t spoken in a week. He responded with “I’m Okay, was just thinking the same about you.” When I asked if he wanted to chat, there was no comment…until midnight when he decided to send me some nice compliments (not asking for anything, just nice compliments). Of course now my head is spinning. At least I got some nice compliments out of it..just trying to see the bright side if there is one. So here I go dragging my weak self back up onto the ‘NC Wagon’ and sitting with my head hung low. Oh well, tomorrow is a new day.
**Random thought – sometimes I can’t help but wonder if some of these ACs, EUM, or MM are like deer. If you stand still long enough they’ll come near, but the moment you make even the slightest move, they run for the hills.
Girl if you’re serious about NC, you need to delete his number. Delete every text he sends you. That way you have nothing to re-read and over analyze when you start to think about him. Healing already hurts enough without re-opening the wound every other day. Commit to yourself and follow through. Once you get past the hump of desire for him with some REAL distance, it’ll be easier to see him for the player he actually is.
I know this works ecause I’m currently 3 weeks NC with my EUM who I was in love with and the distance has allowed me to see just how selfish he really is. I told him I always hurt after I saw him and that if we weren’t going to date we needed to go our separate ways, but he keeps texting me anyway. No respect for my boundaries or feelings. Not such a catch afterall!
Ladies, may I exhibit an example of exactly what Nat is talking to us about in this article? I long ago kicked a specific assclown to the curb after leading me on, pretending he wanted a r’ship with me, then dumping me to moan over the accidental death of a girlfriend he’d dumped a decade before. I care and am sympathetic, but after awhile I was able to tell this was a head game of his to remain unavailable while using me as free therapist. Got sick of it, cut him off politely, wished him the best, moved on with my life.
A few weeks ago, he breaks into my blissful pool of NC saying hi to me on Facebook. I gave him a curt hi and moved briskly on, offering no emotion and no interest. Things quieted for awhile.
And now this afternoon, he contacted me again, making all sorts of flirtation noise, coming on to me, making clear romantic comments to me, all of which I blew aside. His profile picture on Facebook shows him with dead girlfriend. It has for months. Besides, being tough girl that I am, I’m over him and have been – for ages. Once a guy messes me over, my heart seals over bulletproof against him and I could not be back “into” him if I tried! Well, said assclown continues making vague comeons and being blown off, until he finally attempts to close escrow. Below you can read what he said, and what I said in return: (note especially what he says back after)
6 hours agoVasilis Assclown
hmmm why u dont ship yourself here
6 hours agoHeather Toughgirl
Because you’re not over you know who yet, and I need someone who is available
6 hours agoVasilis Assclown
hehhe
true
clever girl
6 hours agoVasilis Assclown
plus winter is comming
i ll be in a horny period:)
6 hours ago Heather Toughgirl
I have no doubt you’ll emerge from the darkness. I know you will. Take care and super best with the festival!!!!
AND I LOGGED OFF.
See ladies? Men know precisely what they’re up to when they play this game. Unfortunately for them, where I’m concerned, I just happen to be one of those women absolutely immune to it. Assclown continued to send messages and be ignored after that for a good 10 minutes of talking to himself in an empty digital room… then got the message and moved on.
That’s how ya do it, ladies. Heather in New York City 🙂
I say if there is a next time, just ignore the guy altogether. He probably got some satisfaction out of you telling him that you can’t be together because he’s hung up on someone else. Don’t let him think that if only his feelings changed that he would still have a chance with you. I would say that silence is the best way, but a simple “I’m not interested in you in that way” would also make for a nice blow to his ego.
(Always easier to give advice than to take it though 🙂
Do AC’s have radar?!! I knew he would pop up eventually and sure enough he called the morning after an amazing day for me professionally yesterday. (No way he could know what’s going on with me.) It went to voicemail and his message was to give him a call because he wanted to ask me something… Talk about the reset button, too, it was like he talked to me yesterday not 7 weeks since we last spoke. I’m sure he thinks enough time has passed that I’ll ask “How high?” since he’s asked me to jump. I don’t think so! Thank you Natalie and all you ladies for getting me to this point of strength and self love and care.
Hi Runnergirl,
Thank you so much for your comments. I am so much stronger dealing with all this, this time around than I was 3 years ago when it all started. That was round #1, when he stopped communicating with me for 5 months even though I kept sending desperate, needy messages every week. Yep, that was embarrassing. Last summer during round #2, I was an absolute mess on the inside while walking around with a smile on my face when he decided to stop communicating again. That time for 3 months. I still can’t believe 5 days have now gone by and nothing. No sports comments or FB posts directed towards me or anything. Just last Sunday, I had a FB post directed at me followed by hours of messages all initiated by him. You see, I decided not to ever initiate another message as to seem needy or desperate and seem more like a friend. I thought this would keep him from running away again. In March, I even told him I had to back off from sending messages because I knew he didn’t feel the way about me as I did for him. His response, “We have a unique and special bond that I treasure and I will continue to message you.” The thought of not having him to discuss our favorite sports or upcoming holiday plans or my birthday simply makes me want to cry. I wish someone would tell me, how do you spend ALL DAY, EVERY DAY messaging someone for a period of 7 months and then just stop abruptly??? For no reason. Just 2 weeks ago when he hadn’t heard from me he sent a message to see how I was doing . This is someone I have cared about for the past 15 years even after we broke up and went our separate ways. Up until March of this year, we weren’t communicating daily and I was honestly pursuing him even when he said “What do you expect of me, you’re there, I’m here and married?” When I finally flew to visit him (my idea), he said he had ignored me in “round #2” because he “didn’t know how to process what was happening between us, had feelings for me, but couldn’t imagine telling someone else that he loved them right now during his current situation so he just shut down and disconnected”. His words. So, I’m feeling as if the past 3 years…all the time, effort, worrying, daily messaging, and money spent to travel to visit him 5 times was all a waste. He’s not a bad guy, but he is a cowardly man. Why can’t men just say “I can’t, I’m…
Complicated
“I wish someone would tell me, how do you spend ALL DAY, EVERY DAY messaging someone for a period of 7 months and then just stop abruptly??? For no reason.”
What do you mean, “for no reason”? You have EVERY and MANY reasons. I could list them for you but here’s one that is enough all by itself: he. is. making. you. utterly. miserable. Enough??
Fearless,
Although those are harsh words…they are the truth. Thank you for that. I’m not sure why we sometimes choose the path that is clearly more painful. You’re right, it does make me miserable. I’m miserable when I don’t hear from him and miserable when I do hear from him because I want more. I did hear from him early Sunday morning where he texted me with compliments which of course makes me wonder if I’m so great, why didn’t you choose me all those years ago…and so the mind games continued!! I’m dragging myself back up on the NC wagon with my head hung low and tail tucked between my legs. One day it will stick…right?
Complicated
You can’t believe he’s just disappeared after x, y, or z? I can. Every single person who comments here has experienced it. It’s got to the stage where I read the first few lines of a post “We had some great dates; he got back in touch; he said this or that, we had sex, he said we should live together, even … he proposed, I just KNOW that the next sentence will be .. and then he disappeared/stopped calling/ changed his mind/ pretended it hadn’t happened/ dumped me/ cheated on me.
This is what they do. It’s their stock in trade, along with the freakin texts.
You could spend another three years trying to figure it out or just cut and run. All this so you can “talk” about sport and holidays? Via messaging?
And he’s not your friend. He’s someone else’s husband. He knows that very well which is why he’s holding you at arm’s length where you can’t damage him but can quite effectively damage yourself.
Hi Grace,
You’re right, I am the one who’s been kept at arms length and ultimately just ending up hurting myself. I even asked him once how he could “disconnect” so easily and he said “I don’t know.” Wow, can you imagine if most women were able to disconnect that easily?! What a boatload of pain and misery we could save ourselves. He did end up contacting me this past weekend (late at night I might add) with the compliments. Oh, they were good ones too talking about my looks and how no one else was as good, etc. Well, obviously he didn’t think I was THAT good or he would’ve chose me 15 years ago and not string me along for the past 3 years. But, I know, it’s not about me, it’s about his unavailability (emotionally and marriage wise). I truly wish I’d never found him and reconnected and saved myself all this heartache. I do feel as if part of me has been damaged or broken and hopefully time (along with No Contact will help). But, I am so glad you all have been here on this website to help. Oh, and you’re right about him not being my friend because true friends don’t treat each other this way. As I told Fearless, here I go dragging myself back onto the NC wagon with my tail stuck between my legs. The only thing that scares me is that I’m afraid subconsciously in the back of my head I’m thinking I’ll do no contact until he contacts me first. 🙁
Hey Complicated,
Of course, Grace and Fearless have said it all as your situation is not unique, sorry. I lived it too as did many wonderful ladies (and men) who comment here. I’d like to lend my support to getting back on the NC wagon. I fell off and drug my sad, sorry arse back on the wagon before I committed. You’ve got to commit to NC and to yourself. You’ve got the FBG going strong as did I. Have you read Natalie’s latest post about the “Dreamer and the Shopper”? When I was first dealing with NC, I was stuck in what Natalie describes a “sustained period of continuing a ‘connection’ mentally that’s ceased in real life with the help of the internet, and then those who use the flimsiest of connections as a springboard to create a connection and relationship in their imagination that far surpasses reality.” It may be what you are doing at this point? A few late night compliments via TEXT are simply CRUMBS. Do you suppose he managed to get a few text messages out to you around midnight after dinner with his wife, a movie with his wife, and making love with his wife? And you got a TEXT! That is the relationship crack Natalie talks about, only there’s no relationship in reality, it’s just crack. Cheating MM’s are not like deer. Cheating MM’s are unavailable lying assclowns. So sorry. I know your pain. Your lying, cheating ex MM is telling you in very clear language why he can just “disconnect”. He is married to his wife and is not leaving her. As a former OW, it took me a long time (and a lot of wonderful support from Natalie and the comments on this blog) to realize, he has a wife. It seems odd to me now that I could simply deny the plain, obvious reality that he was married and NOT my boyfriend, despite his protestations that we were “s**lmates”. I might have well just walked around in a Cinderella costume as I was so living in a fantasy. It wasn’t until his wife put a tail on him, caught us red-handed, and hacked his email/texts that I realized he was married and cheating on his wife of 27 years. That pretty well ended the dream or nightmare! Stick to NC, no matter what crumb text he sends. Otherwise, it’s just more pain. For me, the pain of being the OW was greater than the pain of NC. Stay strong. Hope to hear back.
Hi runnergirl,
Good to hear from you. It does feel like “relationship crack”! When I hear from him, I’m on the top of the world and nothing is unattainable. But when I don’t hear from him, I have this sinking, empty feeling in my chest. It is like withdrawl. For me, it’s been so much better to just communicate and not have to walk around with the “person cut out” in my chest as Natalie called it,and the heaviness in my heart that I may never hear from him again. I have to move past this and even wrote a goodbye letter last night (didn’t send it just wrote out everything I’ve been thinking and why I was saying goodbye). Did you send a letter or anything or just go cold turkey not saying anything and ignoring any communication? How long did it take him to contact you and how did you react? Sorry for the questions, I’m just trying to build up my armor and protection for myself. 15 years of thoughts and feelings is alot to let go of. Hope to hear from you soon.
The “Friend Card” = I don’t want a relationship with you. I don’t want to commit to you. I don’t really want you in that sense at all. In fact, I don’t want anything that doesn’t fall under the “casual” category. I want to keep you in my back pocket and in the back burner of my life so that should I need easy/convenient sex, an ego stroke or however else I can use you…. you’ll be handy.
I’m sure we ALL have that one EUB (Emotionally Unavailable Bastard) who doesn’t really want us, but just can’t seem to let go of us lurking in our lives. Unfortunately, I know some women who think that just because these men seem to be “sticking around”, that there might actually be something potentially real there………. NEWSFLASH: There isn’t! Quite ironic how these AC’s only seem to “want” you and chase after you when you become unavailable to them. The only way to deal with these ones is to go cold turkey and keep reinforcing No Contact. It may even take years until they finally get the message. The Rule: You must remain strong & consistent. I have an EUM who I’m on the verge of going No Contact with because simply saying “No” isn’t sinking through to him. Thing is, he hasn’t pissed me off enough for me to enforce NC. He falls under the “Likeable EUM” category because he’s pretty honest about being emotionally unavailable and is not a deceitful assclown.
NML I need your comment on my question:
I was involved emotionally with a man who has a NPD for four years in a constant off-and-on relationship; now, after two years of no-contact he appeared asking for friendship?!! Will he ever stop poking into my life? should I do anything or just keep on ignoring him, his, calls, sms’……….??
Hi Complicated,
Good to hear from you and your questions are spot on with regards to NC. I wasn’t the perfect NC role model. For the first seven months,when he poked around in my life, I responded in order to get my crack hit and I’d poke around in his life as well. I was an addict. We were on a 90-day cycle. 90 days NC. Then one of us would break NC. It did no good. The momentary crack high was followed by an incredibly low, just as Natalie describes. Every single time I broke NC, I realized he wanted to hit the reset button: He wanted a mistress; I wanted a committed relationship. Poking around in each other’s life simply prolonged the hurt, anger, and sadness. Worse the crack hit/contact set me back. After the July “Suck it and See” experience, I’m not even tempted to take a hit off the mistress crack pipe. I never sent my Unsent Letter, which is why it’s called an “Unsent Letter”, although I threatened to do so and the wonderful folks on this blog talked sense into me. I kept writing and writing and writing until I’d written, cried, stomped my feet, and thrown all my toys out of the pram. I raged on this blog since last December (thank you all for your patience with me). After the writing, raging, crying, stomping, and throwing my toys, I realized (I think), I unloaded him. I just had to suck it up. Either I could be his mistress forever or I could move on and find someone who is available for a committed relationship. It ended up being MY CHOICE, although I wanted to blame him and place the burden on him for not chosing me, even though he was always up for a shag. It’s YOUR CHOICE too. How long to you want to prolong your misery by getting a momentary high? Is the high as high as the low is low?
Runner:
“I just had to suck it up.”
That’s a very American expression to me! But it is exctly right. Well put. We can stomp and throw as many fits and rages as we want, we can cry and weep and howl at the moon and suck it and see and hope and want and howl again and suck it and see again…. all as long as we want… but when we eventually get that it is what it is and no amount of howling will ever make it anything else, a light comes on: we actually do just ‘have to suck it up’.
That’s when we really get what this is all about – it’s not about looking for ways to fix it, Complicated – it’s really really not! It’s about accpeting the harsh, blunt and painful reality that NC is all that’s left and we need to just – suck it up!
Hi Runnergirl,
The high is definitely not as high as the low is low. I found myself last week lying in bed with a horrible migraine and crying because I hadn’t heard from him in a day or so. The realistic part of me was thinking “how stupid can you be, it’s time to move on, there’s nothing he can give me that I want” and the other part of me was saying maybe I’ll hear from him soon. Ugh. The 12 inches between my head and heart are the longest journey I’ve ever taken. I read that quote somewhere. Sure enough, I heard from him the next morning…and oh, was he blowing hot again. This time, he said he wanted to start sending “pictures” to each other. Umm, ya not gonna happen. This made me feel a little sick to my stomach to be honest. This person doesn’t know how they feel about me after 3yrs, but wants to start sending “pictures” to each other??!! The lightbulb started to flicker in my head. Funny thing is, I’m starting to see what everyone is saying about how they want to talk to you on their terms. When I send him a message, sometimes he’ll respond and sometimes he won’t. There’s nothing he can give me that I want so I just don’t understand why I even bother sticking around hoping for stupid crumbs. Now I’m staring to think maybe there’s something completely wrong with me if I can’t move on past this and see him for what he really is….married, unavailable, and basically no good (to me or his wife). Just wish I didn’t feel so empty when I didn’t hear from him. I’m going to keep journaling and reading from all of you and praying that I can get the strength to get out of this mess. Please keep the comments coming. Thanks!!!
complicated
You just have to grit your teeth and stop responding Cut him off.. I went down the exact same route with the MM last year – with the texts and the sexting. For a time, I imagined that he was full of love and yearning for me. But I realised that ALL HE WANTED was the texting and pictures. Don’t forget, that while you are single, alone, not seeing anyone else, and utterly dependent on him, HE is married, sexing his wife (possibly after being turned on by you), enjoying a full family life. His experience of this is not your experience. He has it all and more. You get a few texts every now and then.
It’s like he has a full buffet meal in front of him but will pop out every now and then for a change of scene. You’re just a bit of variety to his life. It’s not that hard to understand, throughout history, powerful men have had harems of women. Even if there was a favoured woman, they like the OPTION of others. It gives them a kick.
The MM texted (of course) that he always wanted to be a part of my life. What does that actually mean? He just wanted to dip in and out at his convenience, from a distance, and for me just to be there ready and waiting.
I’m better than that and so are you!
Hi Grace,
My MM made a similar comment earlier this year saying “You won’t lose me from your life, we have a special bond that I treasure.” Ugh. Just typing that makes me want to throw up. I do wish sometimes I could throw up and get out this poison that’s inside of me (at least that’s how it feels). I heard from him today after nothing since this past weekend. I made it all of 40 minutes, yep, a measly 40 minutes before I responded. He asked how my Halloween was and I responded all too happy to hear from him. I might as well be the little puppy that sits alone all day while their human is at work and when they get home, the puppy jumps up and down so happy to see them. I feel so stupid! Get this, when I responded and asked how his Halloween was, you know what he said?? Oh, I bet you can guess. Nothing. Yes, that’s right, no response. Why would he, he knows I’m still here. So here I am thinking why am I so weak over this MM?? Prayers, good thoughts, anything is needed. I feel so ridiculous. I can’t even sleep at night without him being in my dreams in one way or another. My mind and subconscious are so infested with him. If he was a drug, I’d have overdosed by now. Ugh!!
Complicated: sounds as though you also want to have the last word. Since it seems that this guy will sniff around if you stop contact, and that you find that hard to resist, I suggest focusing on knowing that NC will mean blocking him. Whatever works for you: either wait until he texts once more and you can respond with “I’m not interested anymore. You won’t be hearing from me again.” Or simply block him right now.
I understand the temptation, believe me. It has been almost a year now since my last contact with my ex (who did keep trying to stay in touch, when I’d asked for space, and I not-so-secretly-to-BR-readers enjoyed it on one level). Every time they contact it’s the same sweet syrup at first, with that bitter bitter aftertaste of their indifference that lingers long after. Sometimes I still remember the sweetness, but am so glad for NC because I do not need to ever feel that bitterness of having wasted on him even a moment more of my valuable time or attention.
We have ALL been there. Runnergirl and Grace are right. It’s not complicated. Block him: all text, all email, phone, fb, tinfoil antenna, block block block.
Then start to breathe.
Oh dear lord Complicated….he now wants pictures? I’m glad there’s a light flickering for you. This guy is a total cad. Of course, you realize that sexting (I’m assuming he doesn’t simply want to see pics of you gardening and cleaning the toilet) isn’t going to get you a committed, healthy relationship based on trust, love, and respect, right? Do you think that if this sad situation spontaneously combusted into a “relationship” that you could ever trust him? Or would you be in total Columbo mode every time he texted? I had to treat myself like I was withdrawing from a powerful drug. I knew the only way out was to cut contact and eventually I got there with the help of Natalie, this blog, and his wife! Lot’s of folks on this site have done it, despite the intense withdrawal symtoms, and you can too if you commit. Once you detox, you can start to address the empty feeling. Filling up the empty feeling with sexting a MM isn’t going to work. It’ll leave you even more empty and depleted. You can do it. Actually, you’ve got to do it for you. I wish I could cut him off for you but nobody can do it but you.
@Fearless, I didn’t realize “Suck it up” was an American expression. It does mean accepting the harsh, blunt, painful reality that there’s nothing left but NC. It is better not having them poking around trying to keep a foothold in nothingness. Hang in there!
Runnergirl,
I wish you could cut him off for me too. I never heard back from him yesterday and no texts today. I didn’t send anything today either. Taking it one day at a time. Part of me can’t help but wonder why he didn’t contact me today and the other part of me is fighting to not contact him. To be honest, sometimes I wish he was one of those men I read about on here that keep trying to reach their FBG…at least the FBG gets the satisfaction of watching the texts come in and hitting delete. In my situation, he won’t even make the effort for me. Yes, that should tell me something right there. I’ve been living off crumbs for the past 3 years, so maybe it’s become a way of life..a way of life I know I have to change. I just hate that I want to hear from him so badly. I want to get to the point where I don’t care whether or not he contacts me. He’s been a part of me for 3yrs now. I once heard the opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference. I still love the stupid MM but want so badly to disconnect and feel ‘indifferent’. I took off work today and slept lots. I simply feel numb when I don’t feel like crying. This whole experience is starting to drain the life and joy out of me.
Magnolia – you are right, I do want the last word. Unfortunately, if i stop contacting him, he wont be burning up my phone trying to reach me to give me the last word. I’d have to initiate contact…just to have the last word. I know all to well the whole bittersweet feelings. How did you succeed with NC??? Any tips would be appreciated.
THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!!!!
To b totally honest i didnt know what an EUM was before this site. I am going to admit im married and so is he. I have never had an affair before and nor was i planning to. I met him online and he was so hot in pursuit when we first exchanged numbers and yes you guessed it he would only text never call me. I found this very strange until i realized what i was dealing with. He pursued hard until unfortunately it paid off and he got what he wanted. He was still around 4 months later but not as hot as he was to begin with and you guessed it again i became the pursuer 2 weeks ago he said he was going away and he will text me the following tuesday guess what heard nothing not a peep. I texted like a crazy lady for 2 days getting upset over it. The things these men make us resort too. It hurts but i am moving until 2 days ago he texted me “Hi babe sorry you havent heard from me i have been in hospital, i just got out, no money on my phone, i will put money and text you in the next couple of days and tell you all about it. How have you been”. I did not reply and nor am i ever giving him the time of day again. We as women are worth more dont let these losers into your life.
Dearest Natalie, I have been reading your articles for over a year, now. I was trying to figure out if I was crazy. My BF of two years, was referred to, as the biggest Narcissist, my friend had ever met. So in my confusion, on one of my FB pages, I noticed an article about Emotionally Unavailable Men, a light went off, as I read article after article, blog after blog. This man, which I fell head over heels, in Love with, turns out to be the classic, well, everything. Narcissist, EUM, AC. He is an amazing man in his productive life, just an absolute mess in a relationship. I have been Managed Down, probably to a 2 or 3, most of the time. I’ve had the reset button pushed innumerable times, hung up on, whenever I demanded more than the Status Quo, then blown off for 48 hours, until he cooled off, and pushed the reset button, again. He “blows Hot and Cold, and Lukewarm.” I was told on more than one occassion, that, “we should just enjoy the time we have together, why do I have to “push”, and not just “go with the flow”?” He would start fights, when I would ask when we would see each other, again, at the end of my “booty call.” He thinks because he’s not a cheater, or a beater, he’s the perfect catch. This is bad, I know it, I told him off, and gave him the “break up call”, last week, and NC’d for a week, guess who calls to check on my ailing father a week later? His number is blocked, and he calls my business phone. I went on two dates last week trying to get on with my life, but he just “drops” in when it’s convenient. I swear he has a tracking program on my phone, he always seems to know when I have been out of my “usual” pattern. I live in a small town, and I know he has spies, reporting on me. I date off the mountain, ’cause I don’t think my personal life is anybody’s business. I am a successful business woman, and homeowner, and it seems most men tend to run from me, because they fear the responsibility of my lifestyle. So I welcome his attention, even though I know better. I have turned into “damaged goods,” and I don’t even know how I got here.
Dearest Natalie, I have been reading your articles for over a year, now. I was trying to figure out if I was crazy. My BF of two years, was referred to, as the biggest Narcissist, my friend had ever met. So in my confusion, on one of my FB pages, I noticed an article about Emotionally Unavailable Men, a light went off, as I read article after article, blog after blog. This man, which I fell head over heels, in Love with, turns out to be the classic, well, everything. Narcissist, EUM, AC. He is an amazing man in his productive life, just an absolute mess in a relationship. I have been Managed Down, probably to a 2 or 3, most of the time. I’ve had the reset button pushed innumerable times, hung up on, whenever I demanded more than the Status Quo, then blown off for 48 hours, until he cooled off, and pushed the reset button, again. He “blows Hot and Cold, and Lukewarm.” I was told on more than one occassion, that, “we should just enjoy the time we have together, why do I have to “push”, and not just “go with the flow”?” He would start fights, when I would ask when we would see each other, again, at the end of my “booty call.” He thinks because he’s not a cheater, or a beater, he’s the perfect catch. This is bad, I know it, I told him off, and gave him the “break up call”, last week, and NC’d for a week, guess who calls to check on my ailing father a week later? His number is blocked, and he calls my business phone. I went on two dates last week trying to get on with my life, but he just “drops” in when it’s convenient. I swear he has a tracking program on my phone, he always seems to know when I have been out of my “usual” pattern. I live in a small town, and I know he has spies, reporting on me. I date off the mountain, ’cause I don’t think my personal life is anybody’s business. I am a successful business woman, and homeowner, and it seems most men tend to run from me, because they fear the responsibility of my lifestyle. So I welcome his attention, even though I know better. I have turned into “damaged goods,” and I don’t even know how I got here.