Some of us find it really hard to imagine hurting someone and if we were to find ourselves in this unimaginable position, we’d feel terrible about it. It would play on our mind, we’d be desperate to express remorse, to begin to make amends, to show how what has occurred isn’t a character defect but some ill-chosen words or actions on our part that we feel terribly regretful about. This is why it’s utterly baffling to us when we have shown kindness, decency, love, compassion, tolerance and more for somebody, that they wouldn’t think twice about doing the very things that they know causes us pain. It beggars belief that they would re-enter our life after the last round of pain, with the same or even worse intentions than the last time. It’s like, Aren’t I worth a genuine, thought-out explanation? Where’s your conscience? When exactly are you going to feel enough remorse that you’d either be a better person or at least jog along and spare me any further pain?
We imagine that if someone knew that we were in love with them and that we wanted commitment and basically more than the crumbs that they offered before, that if they came back, it’s because they’re ready to come good. I mean, come on now– why are you here inviting me out, hounding me with texts, talking about moving in or how no one makes you feel like I do, if all you’re going to do is turn me inside out with pain?
We imagine that someone who has repeatedly disappointed us thinks, OK, I need to leave him/her alone. I can’t keep hurting this person.
We struggle to imagine why our feelings are used as a weapon against us.
There’s a certain type of person out there that mistakes the niceness that we pride ourselves on and yes, even our fear of confrontation and our desire to see the best in people, for a vulnerability to be exploited. They spot that we want to please, that maybe we’re a little (or a lot) unsure of ourselves, that we’ll be like a puppy kicked across the room if we sense criticism never mind experience it, and that we’re also missing a level of validation. They know that we want to be loved and they take us for granted.
They know that because we don’t like to make waves, that we’re caught between a rock and a hard place when they say all of the right things and hint at the future, because we don’t want to look as if we’re being ‘immature’ or ‘unforgiving’ by referencing what went on before. We worry about looking ‘rude’ and causing upset, so we feel obliged to press the reset button. We gamble our hopes yet again rather than question things. We hope that they will give us the dream so that we don’t ever have to face the truth and make uncomfortable but necessary changes that would spell the end of this person having a place in our life.
We admittedly do get a bit blinkered because we’re using our own moral outlook as a frame of reference to determine our expectations of that person rather than as a statement of our values that highlights the discrepancy with theirs.
We also try to take the higher road, seeing where a person is coming from and recognising what’s behind their behaviour. The problem with this is that because they don’t have that self-awareness or recognise and appreciate the empathy that we extend them, being understanding comes back to bite in a big way because they are not experiencing any true, natural consequences. They think they’re golden. They even think that it’s us who’s the problem and won’t take any responsibility for their part. We’ve fallen into the over-empathy trap.
All of a sudden we realise that we must stop being so in the moment with this person and getting sucked into their latest reset button press and hype. We realise that we do not need to give up our positive qualities but we certainly need to be more discerning and definitely a hell of a lot more boundaried.
There’s a two-fold problem when a person keeps hurting and disappointing us:
1) That they lack the pride, integrity, empathy, and compassion to recognise their own actions and their impact on others. They see people as a means to an end.
2) That we’re still giving them the space and opportunity and as such, are remaining open to the possibility of being hurt and disappointed some more.
No matter how much we try to please and love, we cannot influence or even control that person into doing better. All we’ll effectively end up doing is hurting us in the process and then trying to make them repay the debt created by our people pleasing.
What we can change is how much pain we’re in and how much more we are exposed to this type of carry-on.
I know from personal experience how comfortable it is to complain about someone’s treatment and to at the same time, keep denying, rationalising and minimising my way into being open to a repeat because I’m thinking that they must surely know that they’ve exhausted their line of credit and how hurtful it would be.
The reality is that some people hurt us and are not fully aware of how much because we shelter them from their actions and so they don’t experience natural consequences. We keep telling them how much we love them and chasing them about so to them, they still think that we’re good to go.
There are also some people who choose not to be aware. No matter how badly they behave, they’re never at fault and if anything, they’re the ‘victims’ of us calling them out on their actions or not being perfect all of the time and withstanding whatever crumbs and treatment they were throwing us.
Some people know and keep saying sorry and then it’s lather, rinse, repeat. It’s like, “Stop telling me you’re sorry and start living it!”
Some know what they’re doing (even if they deny it). To expect them to empathise is to expect them to use a resource they don’t have.
The fact is though, we know that we’ve been hurt and actually, we must stop treating the people who hurt us like overgrown babies. We must stop playing down our pain and whitewashing their behaviour. There’s no point in them going on about what they intended; it’s time to start talking about what has resulted.
Whether they’re family, romantic partners or whoever, what can be an underlying desire to be liked at all costs and the niceness and fear of confrontation that comes with that, can and will be used against us if we don’t recognise that some people do not have our best interests at heart because quite simply, they’re all about themselves.
We don’t have to go to war but we do need to recognise that being nice never meant being silent and never standing up for ourselves. We must draw our line because this is how they will know how much they have hurt and impacted us.
We need to be thankful that we care, that we empathise, that we want to do good and yes, that we want to give love. We need to be thankful that we want to do better and that it bothers us when we are wronged or when we err. Some people don’t give a damn and dislike themselves so much and see everything in terms of what can be gotten. Instead of craving what they don’t have to give and wondering why we can’t make them into who we want or be The Chosen One, we need to realise how much it must suck to be in their head. Instead of wondering if the next guy or woman is going to get a better them, we need to give a thought not just to all who came before us but also who is yet to be hurt by them. At least we’re out of it now, if we choose to be.
As we move through life on to happier times (and we will if we stop clinging to pain), those times when we hurt someone will still pop into our thoughts from time to time. It’s called having a conscience and life. Hopefully rather than still beating us up, the experience has helped us to grow as a person and to continue to try to do our best, to think of others but to also know that things won’t go perfectly and that at times, it’s gonna be painful. The fact that we care that much though, ends up being our strength and the anchor from which our integrity and loving relationships are all hitched to. We know that we’ll love more than we pain others.
Your thoughts?
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Relative newbie here, I’ve already asked this on another post, but hoping to get more feedback. Maybe some of you lovely ladies can help me with this:
DO THEY ALWAYS DRAG YOU BACK INTO IT, WHEN YOU’RE ABOUT TO LEAVE?
My EUM was never really interested in me besides when I was walking out of the door. He never made any effort other than right at that point. Then he’d make excuses that he didn’t have much time and go right back to ignoring me.
DO THEY MIMIC AND MIRROR YOU?
My EUM, aside from our very first communication via facebook messaging, was never himself. He took on my speech patterns, my slang, my tone, and sometimes my exact verbiage. I’ve never seen anything like it. In his first facebook message, he was all about being a born-again Christian, God, his family, etc. The subsequent messages never had that tone again. He took my tone on, adapted to my personality, used my wording (exactly) back at me. Or is this merely someone who doesn’t have his own personality?
DO THEY ALWAYS TRY AND FLATTER YOU BACK?
My EUM would, after I would compliment him, try and compliment me back in the same way. It was awkward and I could tell it was forced (you know when someone is being sincere). It was like tit-for-tat. Okay, she complimented me, now I must pay that in kind. I didn’t like it, felt it was forced and unnecessary, and mainly, insincere. I would have much rather preferred him not to respond in the like.
ARE THEY ALWAYS WARY AND STEER CLEAR OF EMOTIONS?
When I walk away from my EUM and he turns the tables around on me, making me feel like I’m the one who can’t handle it, I freaking apologize to him (yes, that is how sad I am at this point) for walking away and promise that next time, I’ll talk to him about any concerns. We’re leaving the movies at this point- with people around us- and he lowers his voice and says through practically gnashed teeth, “You. Need. To. Stop. Apologizing! Ugh!” and then he shakes his head like he’s shaking it off, his voice completely goes back to normal and he asks how my weekend was.
DO THEY TAKE ON YOUR TRAITS?
When I first met him, during our first hang-out, I asked him if he had hung-out with a lot of people from his work. He looked offended and said, “no! do you?” and I said of course I did, because quite frankly, how offended he looked kinda shocked me. The very next week, he begins to friend women (and men) at his work. He admits to me that he went straight home to view this woman’s profile. I became very jealous because after 5 years at his place of work and not befriending anyone there, he friends people only a week after meeting me. Also, since he says he doesn’t do facebook very often, I become jealous when I hear that he goes straight home to view their profile.
DO THEY ALWAYS LACK EMPATHY OR BLAME YOU FOR YOUR PAIN?
He warned me upfront that he was a bad friend. At one point when I’m walking away, he reveals through- what I now think of as a veiled threat- that he’s had to expel a group of friends just the year before…although he won’t say what they did…so I feel like I have to behave too, unless I want to become one of them. So, any pain that I’m experiencing now, I’m sure he blames me for and doesn’t point the finger at himself a bit (and all I’ve been doing is beating myself up for the mistakes I made) because he did warn me. Also, one time he picks me up from the dentist as a big favor to me (he reacted like I was proposing marriage when I’m asking for this favor) after I get some work done and need a ride home. When I get in the car, he can tell that I’m in pain and asked me what happened. I said that the dentist offered me more pain meds, but he would have had to stop what he was doing so I declined them in favor of getting the procedure over with. In a condescending tone he says “well, he did offer you more pain meds, so that’s your fault.” I remember thinking “WTF, I’m not even complaining about it, you asked ME.”
ARE THEY MOSTLY PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE?
Do they promise things and then move like a turtle to deliver them, or not at all? Why say that they are going to do something in the first place?
DO THEY ALWAYS CUT AND RUN?
My EUM bounced the moment that I called him on his stuff and not even in a mean, confrontational way. I joked, mainly. But off he went, with nary a word, and now giving me the silent treatment and acting like I don’t exist, BUT, leaving all lines of communication open. Do they bask in the desperation they sense?
Thank you.
Sonia,
I’ve been there, for many years unfortunately. And wasting my time on someone who doesn’t have the awareness, plays games, and was hurting me emotionally and mentally. My only regret was not learning about who I was, and waiting around for a selfish moron to realize my worth and the error of his ways and leave within months, not years of this person making me feel even an ounce of pain and upset.
It’s NOT about love for them, it’s about them and CONTROL. Not love, control. They manipulate, blame and make you feel bad. Believe me when I say, love definitely has nothing to do w that crazy dynamic.
Empaths tend to be very compassionate, empathetic people. To a fault if you don’t have boundaries, and know when to draw the line. Trust your instincts.
The best thing you can do for yourself, is be selfish. Occupy your time learning about you, who you are, the person you want to become. Don’t focus more on trying to figure him out. Figure out who you are, and how to love who you are. Because if you don’t learn how to do that, you are going to keep breaking your own heart and allowing this fool to keep suckering you in. Over and over again.
I told my ex to his face that I did not want him contacting me at all anymore. I was done. I was done with the nonsense and not living a life that I wanted because of him. All because of one person who is so false in so many ways, I sacrificed part of my life. I was unhappy, a majority of the time. Sure, I cared.. And there were times of bliss… But never consistent. In ten years the relationship never went beyond when it started. I was manipulated, blamed, wronged, you name it. Took me awhile to climb back up from being brainwashed and put down. But I did it. And so glad that I did. No more Jekyll/Hyde, feeling insecure, that it’s all my fault. No way. Get out. Work on you… You should be your only concern. I started by focusing on myself and re establishing relationships w my girlfriends. You need positive people around you who are consistent in being sensitive and care about your well being.
The relationship never went beyond where it started..that is my deal…the cruelty…the lies…man, I hope I can get out of this starting today….
Ditto. I was out. For 3 years, I was out. and then somehow he got back in. 8 years is enough!!
I was NC for 10 years, e-mailed a generic how are you note and got sucked in again, off and on again for 3 years Now I almost wish she’d contact me so I could scream FU loud enough for all of North America to hear it.
All I can say it this site is what got me through it the first time to the point that I didn’t even need to read it anymore for years. Now, here I am again all because I went against my gut and followed my stupid heart…
Demke you are so right in what you say..
It is all about control and also ego too
Absolutely right we do need to be selfish, we need to put us first and our own needs.
For 2016 I’m going to be alot tougher, I’m going to listen to my gut which is something I rarely do and I’m going to separate the weeds from the flowers!
This year has been an eye opener for me, I realise that life is to short to worry about people who don’t care or worry about you..
It’s time to put me first 🙂
Demke, your comment describes my marriage to a T. You may remember I left my likely narcissist husband after he hit me in October. We have been separated since then. Three long painful and tough months. Everyone here told me not to go back. I haven’t. The first 6 weeks he was trying to talk but each time he was Backtracking and minimising what he did and took weeks to see a therapist. I broke down on the phone to him when he kept changing his story saying I couldn’t take the mind games and just wanted honesty and consistency before I could even think about seeing him again. He then started seeing a therapist and since then he has backed off and somehow turned this into being about ‘how unhappy HE is’ and not sure what he wants. Manipulative. He now barely makes any effort. Yet won’t say lets split. I was strong the first 6 weeks and since the starting pulling back, I have felt crushed again. How can he hurt me again? Last week we met, I thought we connected and seemed like there was a shift, he told me he loved me and wanted to wait a bit longer and to keep in touch over Christmas. He sent me a text which I replied to and said call when free and now nothing. This article was so spot on. How can he keep hurting me? I have said its rude not to get back to messages. He tells me he wants me to only talk to him and nobody else yet I get nothing from him. So painful. I wish I left him and never looked back. Why do I want him to love me? How can I stop this cycle and own it. The path ahead seems so dark.
Maya, you say, “He tells me he wants me to only talk to him and nobody else yet I get nothing from him.” He is isolating you. This is a classic sign of abuse and control. He wants you all to himself so that you have no support network and no one to call him out on his abusive behaviors. He wants to make you completely dependent on him.
I commend you for not running back to him. That is the first step to a healthier life for you – and to a healthier relationship should you want one, further down the line. You also said, “Why do I want him to love me?” This is something you might want to explore further with a therapist of your own.
You also asked, “How can I stop this cycle and own it.” You do that by leaving him and the toxic situation he has created to you and sticking to that decision. Perhaps also by separating through legal means.
Yes, it’s going to be hard, but being on your own is a million times better than being in a bad relationship. There are so many worse things than being single – war, famine, death, catastrophe, severe health crises, etc. No one wants heartbreak, but being single is really not the end of the world. Take the focus on him and put instead on your safety and on creating a plan for setting up a healthier life for yourself. There may also be a women’s shelter or hotline in your area that you could call that could help you work through the practical and/or emotional aspects of your separation.
*take the focus *off* him* – unfortunate typo, there.
Demke, Thank you for sharing. I can relate. I have been in a similar situation, such as you. I have been involved with him for five years now. I can’t take one more let down anymore or him giving one more excuse. It currently feels like a knife just twisting in my back every time he breaks the promise again (about moving in together) and tramples on my feelings. I have had enough torture. I don’t know how to get through this and when i read your passage, I really wanted to respond because what you wrote sounds like the exact same experience. How have you started the process of moving on? My other big problem is how do I get him to realize I am serious about it being over? Unfortunately we do work together in the hospital and I will have to see him from time to time. This is what makes it extremely difficult and the fact is I have tried to break it off so many times (it’s quite ridiculous) but I know he doesn’t take me seriously, why should he though i gave him good reason not too. If you or anyone could help give me some insight please it would be much appreciated thank u!!
Sounds very similar to the narcissist I was dating 3 years ago. I didn’t know who I was dealing with back then. I blamed myself and got my self-esteem obliterated. Understood only recently. Picking myself up only now, 2 years past breakup. He exhibits many features of the narcissistic disorder. Run as fast you can.
Sofia so true!!! Indeed run as fast as you can! Lol..
I too had an encounter with a narc and it took me a long time to recover from the pain.. It’s hard to shake them off but now I see him for what he is.. He still makes contact but does not have an affect on me anymore… Do they ever go away!? I have a terrible habit of attracting narcs but luckily for me I now know the signs 🙂
They never go away from what I have experienced. You have to block them from every channel and change your phone number. And stick to it! I made the mistake of calling him once after I had changed my phone number. Biggest mistake every.
Sonia,
Yes, it is easier to mimic someone than to have an original thought. I knew a guy who wrote down everything I said. I found this out, when we liked different Christian music. He liked different praise bands, and I made the mistake of saying on the phone one time, that I did not like a video he sent of a praise band by saying, “all the guitars sound the same, the music is flat, I find it boring, etc.” and I went on how I did not like that style of music. About 3 months later, I sent him a video, and he said on the phone back to me the EXACT words I said to him, how he did not like my video.
Now, that would not be so unusual, but it was the Exact words, no different. I was creeped out to realize he had to have written it down or recorded my conversation, as I had not even remembered it exactly like that but he was saying it back to me exactly like that. It felt like phone stalking me or something, this guy had to have recorded it.
People who don’t have original thoughts just take ours as their own, just to throw them back at us later to make us feel bad.
Your EUM was just waiting for you to complain about the dentist, to make it your fault that you were in pain in the first place. It always has to be your fault. Think back on that last round with him and you will see, he was waiting for your first complaint so he could turn it around on you.
His formula:
Wait for her complaint.
You: I think I will wear a sweater, it is windy out today.
EUM: Well that is your fault for never knowing how to dress for the weather.
You: I will probably order steak tonight instead of a salad.
EUM: Well, it is your fault you will never lose weight by not sticking to your diet.
You: I was thinking I will call my sister later after I get a shower after my gym workout.
EUM: Well, it is your fault that you have a crappy relationship with your sister (or relative), look you never call her and you don’t know how to have healthy relationships, you are also jealous of her success.
Look at Anything you say to the EUM, and he will toss it back to you with a pile of steaming hot poop sitting on the top. If you say something nice, he craps on it, some complaint he craps on it double. It is not you, it is him, but he makes it about you if you say he is being selfish about him. You can never win with this guy as you are not on his level to play a hate game.
I knew an EUM who told me once, that we had a “love-hate relationship.” I was horrified!!! I never hated him and never thought of my relationship with him that way. But when he said it, I realized, “wow, how creepy, he hates me on some level.” That was the time to think on getting out myself.
You need some time away from this guy. I started knitting again, you need to take some time for you – right now, today, this minute. Focus on you, you and you, because you are worth it.
Knitting has been my sanity these last months since my ex EUM broke up. I knit up a lot of hats for a local charity 🙂
Wow! This is definitely my story. I realized that my guy never had anything good to say about anything. I would give him compliments and he would thank me but then say something bad about me being nice to him. He always felt bad or guilty when ever I was nice to him….RED FLAG!! And when he did something to make me feel uncomfortable, it was always my fault. My feelings were invalidated all the time. He could do something wrong, I’d tell him and then he’d blame me for causing problems y bring it up. He also held on to everything I did wrong and always brought up the past even when it wasn’t relevant. We could never move past anything! Overall he was just a negative person. He told me that I should leave him because he was no good…boy he was right about that!
Yep, EUMs do all or at least most of these things. These traits are all very classic. I wrote an article about psychopathic traits, and you’ve hit every single one of them. Most people think ‘psychopaths’ are serial killers, the vast majority are not. They are people who wreak havoc in their personal and professional lives (sometimes just personal). Mirroring is classic – they really don’t have their own fixed personalities. They shape shift to suit you – it’s another way of drawing you in, and getting you suckered into the idea that you two are ‘soul mates.’ This way, you’ll put up with far more crap than you would otherwise.
My EUM only had about half of these traits, I don’t think he was full on anti-social.
And to be honest I don’t think he chased me after I would break up with him ( he ALWAYS did) because of the reasons Natalie illuminates in this blog – but because he genuinely thought he could change, genuinely wanted to change (in the moment), and was panicking when I left and making all sorts of promises he thought he could keep, or didn’t give much thought to at all.
Of course, it would then turn out he couldn’t or wouldn’t want to keep those promises.
I don’t think he sat there and thought ‘Ah ha! I’m gonna get her AGAIN!’ He just knew what he wanted in the moment – me- and would say whatever he thought would get that – without putting much or any thought into whether he was capable of it and whether he would hurt me again because he wasn’t.
In other words, not evil, just an emotional toddler.
This rings so true with what I’ve just gone through. My ex was very compulsive but unable to find any kind of consistency. I believe he had good intentions but let his emotions carry them off.
Perhaps, it’s easier for me to believe this so I don’t build resentment. Whatever the case, forgiveness is important for us so that we can quit looking back.
I appreciate your explanation of psychopath – it gives me a much deeper understanding of what has happened and the ability to free myself of this cycle.
Diane, An emotional toddler, you have me rolling. I love it and I can relate. I believe that is exactly what I am dealing with, someone quick to say anything in the moment and not give an inkling of thought to it in the present tense. I just so mad at myself for taking it for so long. Thank you for sharing.
I posted a few weeks ago about my relationship with my son’s father and this definitely relates to me. He continually acts like we are together but then when I bring up his actions to him, he says that he doesn’t have anyone else in his life, so if I keep coming around, he’s going to try to have sex with me.
At first I was really hurt…like am I not a person with feelings? Am I not genuine enough that being the mother of his child warrants a bit of respect? But then, I listened to his words and took them at face value. If I keep coming around, he will continue to do the things he does. He will continue to hurt me and have no remorse for it. I have gone two weeks so far with very little contact with him, and I’ve only been to his house to pick up our son. I haven’t slept over, I haven’t allowed him my company, and I’ve been making sure to focus solely on my son and not what could’ve been with his father.
After he cheated and dumped me, and blamed me for his actions, not to mention the emotional abuse and the coldness that came along when I found out about him cheating, I should’ve known that empathy is just something this man does not have. In fact, he wants to see me struggle and fail. I’m just taking things one day at a time, and trying to detach myself from this parasite. I’ve never felt so low in my life, but the difference between my last post and now is that I do have some hope for the future of me and my son.
And somehow, I was the one begging for him to take me back and that I was sorry for making him cheat! Pfft!
He has a narcissist personality disorder. Run don’t walk to the nearest exist!
Yes, my thoughts exactly, Linzi. And, Sonia – you need to work on getting yourself free from victimhood – it’s like a sign on your forehead, or a vibration that is so easily picked up on. I always wondered why I was attracting narcissists, so I thought I must be one, because like attracts like. But when I read about the disorder, I realised I’m way too empathetic and compassionate to be a narcissist. Yet they are victims too, so in a way like *is* attracting like, and the only way to be free of the cycle, is to break free of the cycle (victim/rescuer/perpetrator). To love and respect ourselves is a gift to the Universe – with self-love, we can love others. What you’re doing isn’t loving – it’s enabling…
First of all, as Linzi says, run for your life – cut him out of your life completely. Then go about healing the childhood hurts that are keeping you in victimhood. It’s not easy. In fact, I’m finding it to be a life’s work, so be prepared for the long haul. What else is there? Why are we here? To learn to love, beginning with ourselves…
I agree with linzi 100%, I forgot to add NPD to my first response. Exactly, put your Nike’s on girl, and run like Forest!
LOL, you guys are so right. Researched it a bit and things ring true (on the narc front).
Thank you ladies for being so insightful!!
Another great article Nat. This is so me. I ignored my ex for three months before responding to a text (lazy communication) about his aunt passing. He did try to call once but I tried to be strong in keeping no contact. I got sucked back in thinking he still cares or misses me that he still tried to reach out to me over the few months of no contact. But what I had hope for a new start, just brought back pain and booty calls for him. He is probably seeing another girl and just has me for variety. I need to let him go and not let him have this power over me (been depressed and just drowning my sorrows in sleep and tv). I left him a message (got his voice message after calling him) to tell him that 2016 is a new chapter for both of us, not in each other lives. I wished him the best but that I need to move on and find someone who will appreciate me, love me and respect me. We cannot be friends. I have to let go of the illusion that he is a good man.. maybe he is, but not a good man for me.
Wishing everyone a great new year filled with self love, self preservation and happiness. xoxo
Sammi,
Try to let go, the New Year is such a great time to do it and stick to it. The day before New Year’s should be “Get Over an Ex Day.”
Good luck for a better relationship in 2016.
I think this is probably the most difficult part for me in the “letting go” process. I’m genuinely baffled as to how people can treat others so poorly….
Michelle, I’m with you on that. Letting go has been the hardest part and wondering why or how someone could treat us so poorly…especially after being treated like a queen by that same person. I’ll never understand it.
@Jay,
I am finally catching up after a BR break. I hope you don’t find my comment intrusive. Like you, I didn’t receive closure and like you, I SENT the letter. I mailed it, asking him to only contact me if he’d had a change of heart (16 months ago). I received an email response back. No change of heart, no answers, just how wonderful his life was going and how he’d considered contacting me but didn’t want to be unfair to the new GF. So why contact me? Idk. A few back and forths, no answers, never asked about me, just said I could contact him when my mindset changed because you know, he’d be sad to never see me again. I sent a final response a couple weeks later, saying everything I felt while trying to not blame or criticize, although I’m sure expressing my disappointment (the biggest of my life to date) seemed critical. I never heard from him again and I don’t regret sending it. I hope you’re ok with your decision too. I needed to know that I’d tried my best and that I would never wonder if maybe he just didn’t know how much I cared. I did give my best. HE didn’t care. So in this sense, although it still hurts like a m-f’er, I got my answer. Sometimes silence can be more painful than words. I think speaking our own truth is part of healing.
@Saysomething…hi and not intrusive at all, thank you for your input. Sorry to hear you didn’t get the response you were hoping for. They usually reiterate what they told us at the time of the breakup in most cases, with an added sting sometimes (new girl etc) At least you got some kind of response which is good I guess idk? How would you feel if he had ignored your letter? Not sure what’s worse, the brutal honesty or brutal silence. Sometimes the “not knowing” is comforting..as strange as that sounds. Like you, this has been my biggest disappointment to date also. I’ve never in my life “felt” like I had to write a closure type letter to any guy, that’s how much this has affected me. Sure I’ve loved and lost before but I truly felt like this was it for me.
To add to the disappointment/heartbreak, Ive lost my dignity as well by reacting in a bad way to his decision. I’ve never been dumped in such a cruel manner, then completely axed from their life. No apology, NC from him, nothing. (Happy one day, chopped the next) What’s scary to me is how someone can seem like such a good person…sweet, funny, lots of friends and so on and do a complete 180 and act like a total AC. (How do they sleep at night?) I realize there’s no easy way to break up but at least have some empathy. More than the breakup itself, I was more upset in the way it ended.
Til this day though (a few months post breakup) I don’t have regrets about sending my letter either…except for the possible ego stroke or me appearing to be the crazy, needy ex (of course!) There will always be some kind of backlash. I considered all the responses I may or may not get but in the end I decided to send it for ME. Not really for closure,I knew I wouldn’t get that from him…it was just to let him know how I felt about what happened, in a mature manner of course.
I’m not sure he even read it or responded but it still felt good to get those feelings out, they were eating me up inside. And like you said, I wanted to let him know I cared just in case he didn’t know how much. They know believe me but it’s that final attempt so we can say “I’ve done everything I can do and I tried my best”. If they can’t see that, what else CAN you do? Maybe one day they will realize what they left behind, maybe not. I’m at a point now where I keep telling myself there’s nothing I can do anymore, it is what it is. I wish I could say “eh screw that jerk” but I’m not there yet.
My apologies for the long, repetitive post! I’m glad you were able to get some sort of closure, even if it’s not the kind you wanted. Hopefully next year will bring better things our way.
I’m a guy and I can tell you it happens to me us as well. Its disturbing yet comforting to know that you arent crazy and that there are others, even opposite sex that experience the same shock and hurt as I do, in the same eerily situations. I treated my ex like a queen. Never disrespectful, never mean or rude. Always put her first. And then she went pyscho and left me for someone else in the same grand lying secretive fashion without telling me until I found out myself. And its like whats better than being loved? Whats better than loyalty, honesty, and being committed? Whats better than standing by a person’s side no matter what? Whats better than being there for that person 24/7? NOTHING. They might leave thinking they can find better but there is nothing better than that. So they are chasing a pipe dream and if they arent happy with all those things they never will be.
“wondering why or how someone could treat us so poorly…especially after being treated like a queen by that same person. I’ll never understand it.”
that’s the part i cant fathom either.
I agree with you so strongly on this Jay, im also so baffled as to what makes people so hurtful to others for no reason
Charlie, for no reason is right. I can’t even wrap my head around why people do things like this. If you’re going to do something you know will hurt another, at least have some empathy about it. It’s no wonder women (and men) are damaged and take it into the next relationship when we shouldn’t. We’re so afraid of it happening again.
I’ve learned a lot of people are just selfish and do what suits THEM and their needs. They don’t seem to care about the devastation they’ve left behind for the other person to deal with. Do they even realize what they’ve done? Maybe I’m being negative I don’t know. I always wonder how some people sleep at night and look themselves in the mirror after causing such pain to another, I know I can’t. Then again I was raised by nice parents and I use to assume everyone is like that. Nope!
I cried but strangely I did not want him back. He wants to be friends but that ain’t happening. I actually feel relieved that things have finally ended. Dig a little deeper girl, that man is a burden. Lift him off of your heart, back, shoulders, and chest and face the world!! Its a big and wonderful world out there waiting for you to submerge yourself in it. That guy is only holding you back from what you truly want.
This REALLY hits close to home. Impeccable timing. Thanks, Natalie.
This is the best post ever. Thank you!
I’ve finally come to see that my ex EUM is absolutely toxic to me, and I need to steer clear of him because I know myself well enough to know that if I don’t, I’ll let him mistreat me and walk all over me yet again. His charisma has a way of weakening my defenses. I get myself so worked up and angry when I hear from him, wondering why it is he continues to contact me when he knows how much he’s hurt me. How he can act as if nothing has ever happened between us, as if we didn’t have years of relationship behind us. As if we’re just a couple of old friends. Why would I want to be friends with somebody who treated me so poorly? But his selfishness knows no bounds, and I will no longer be indulging his selfish behaviour. I know better now.
Mae,
Good you are leaving this bum. I used to get flattered they always wanted to be friends after the big breakup, but after reading these posts and advice, I see now it was ego stroking for them, not for me for the ex’s to come crawling back. I meant nothing to them really, and it makes me sad I went back for more pain, but I did.
Now, more pain is not on the menu, but being happy is. People want to throw shade and pain, we just have to accept it.
I went to an event tonight and was taking notes on a speaker. A fashionably dressed woman walked by my table, and asked to use my pen and paper to write herself a note. I just looked at her, everyone else looked at her then at me. She had the nerve to say to me “well if you don’t want to give me the paper and your pen, I will just look in my bag for a pen and paper.” So, I said to her, “I was just handing it over to you.”
So I gave her the full pad and paper, after taking off my notes. Then she dug the pen in the paper and wrote 2 lines, and took off the paper. I could see what she wrote it was nothing really. She (I think) just wanted to unsettle the playing field or something. Everyone at my table just said it was awkward, and thought I was nicer than I needed to be.
The point being, our table was laughing and joking together, all strangers before that event happened. And after this woman left, it was quiet again, she found a way to spoil the mood. This is all from a stupid insecure stranger.
Now think of the damage a guy can do who has access to the keys to your heart? Major damage for sure. You have to change the locks for safety. Some people, even strangers, want to make us unhappy, as they are so pitifully unhappy, they cannot stand themselves in the mirror, so they can’t stand us in the mirror being happy either.
Mae,
This is what they do! They will call you and act just like your the best of friends after they’ve done some hurtful and mean things. They KNOW what they did was wrong but they will never say anything because that would require accountability and that it something they lack.
The ex-eum left me for another woman (I saw him)!, didn’t hear from him for 2.5 months then he calls me at work acting like we just talked the day before! You know what I didn’t say a word because by then any feelings I had for him left the day he drove off with that woman. This shows you how disconnected they are from the emotions and the level of selfishness they possess. I would NEVER leave another person for someone else then call the person I left! You would think they would want to distance themselves as far away from you especially since they have exhibited less than desireable behavior. But nope, not them they just can’t help themselves.
Adele and Stephanie, thank you. It’s good to hear from others that I’m not crazy and not being paranoid. He’s being an asshat, and playing with my heart. Thankfully he’s left me alone for the past month, after I told him that I wasn’t over things yet and not in a place where I wanted to be in contact with him. It still hurts though, knowing how much I gave to that relationship, and how he could just throw it away as if it had meant nothing to him. But it’s a new year, and a new opportunity for me to put him behind me for good.
Thank you, I needed to hear this.
i am in such pain at this moment and i thank you for this article. 5 years with this narcissist…doing as he says…jumping when he asks…ignoring his lies…and he goes and makes New Years Eve plans without me..after I saw him twice this week. When I told him I cant believe it he said I was being embarrassing in behavior and that I acted like a jerk. Its so hard to pull away…I dont know how…despite all the articles Ive read…It just scares me…not to mention I know all the bad things he will say to others about me..as he always comments that Im jealous, immature, etc….
what a way to start the year…
But you shouldn’t think you should stay with someone partly ’cause you’re worried about the bad things he’ll say to others. Let him say what he wants – you can’t control what people are saying behind your back anyway. Those who count will know the slights aren’t true; those who believe them don’t count!
Lee, trust us when we say he is an assclown. Assclowns live day-to-day using people who don’t have personal boundaries. You might have been one of them at one time, but you mustn’t be any more. Withdraw from him completely and live your lovely life without being enveloped in his toxic gas. Say nothing — your silence will be strong and deafening. So what if he goes on to criticise you to others? Let him. Let him say the most awful things imaginable because any normal balanced person listening to him spouting garbage will walk away admiring you for turning your back on him.
Spot on great timing as always
Hey Ladies – lets stop with the pain and tears! I got stood up on Boxing Day by my ‘new’ date. Why? He has decided he wants to get back with his ex. and was ACTUALLY with her, instead of me. My last venture into love decided the same, to get back with his ex wife. SERIOUSLY??? I could SO get to be paranoid about why I seem to propel men back to their exes, when I am a sparkling glass of champagne and their exes, by their descriptions are tepid, stale cups of tea.
When I got back from being stood up I had a text from the previous ex (not having heard from him from over a year), telling me how wonderful his life is with his ex and wished me a happy new year.
I have been in an ocean of tears over the weekend, believe me. Oh the PAIN.
Well sod them. We have all been poisoned by fairy tales; of a prince charming sweeping us off to happy ever after. Fact of the matter is that there is no such thing and at the end of the day, we only have ourselves and its time to make our lives pain free. We do not let those ‘men’ dictate how we feel – WE get to say how we feel. We let them come, we let them go, as the tides and the seasons. Its OK to be on our own. We don’t need them. Come on, ladies, lets make 2016 and onwards, pain free!!
Be strong Bee!
One stands you up, the other texts you a passive-aggressive humblebrag designed to hurt your feelings. Ask yourself. WHO DOES THAT? Seriously, who? What kind of man does that? Assclowns do. They do that.
I proclaim 2016 to be Year of No More Assclown. Put up the bunting, strike up the band, let off the fireworks and join in the celebrations…!
2016: The Year of No More Assclown
Nice!
Bee, you’re not driving men to their exes. You’re getting EU ambivalent men. Are you giving out EU vibes yourself? Are you giving out cool girl vibes? – you know the girl that puts up with anything. That this lousy bloke wrote you gloating about his happiness w the ex I assume he left you for – meaning he is totally classless so why are you grieving such a person? What kind of d-canoe writes to an ex gloating about their current love life? You can only do that if mutually you have moved on to being friends which I doubt you have.
My question is: why are you invested in the story where men leave you for their exes and where you aren’t good enough? And to what extent is that story itself driving these men into your path?
Bee,
I admire your strength and attitude despite the pain. You deserve better. The 1st AC sounds like a pathetic piece of poop who was double timing, arranging seeing you while at the same time pressing reset button with his ex,whichever comes first. Bad trash not to bring with you in the new year. And the one that popped out of the blue after a year just to hurt you,I doubt if he is as happy as he claims tobe. Happy people don’t find time to intentionally hurt others. Soldier on girl. Come home to BR for support. Stay strong. Hugs.
Dear Natalie,
another spot on article and exactly what I needed as I am doing NC and struggling, but reading your book and your website help keep me on track.
I have been thinking a lot about this aspect: Why does someone we have always treated with nothing but respect decide to treat us like crap? Unfortunately we blame ourselves more often than not. Have we put too much pressure on someone? Have we not been understanding enough? Blah, blah, blah…
Your article has really helped to put things into perspective. Thanks so much!
People will tend to walk all over us when we’re too focused on them, and believing we’re not good enough. If we learned how to hold ourselves in high esteem and regard, other people would begin to treat us as such. And when you believe you’re good enough, it’s not as difficult to let go off people who treat you poorly, No matter what your story or circumstance is with this certain someone.
I think of everyone as a mirror for me. If they’re treating me poorly, I must not think highly of myself. And vice/versa.
Everyone wants to know the easy answers of letting go of toxic people, and wondering why ‘they’ do what they do. The more we focus on them, over there, the less we have to become responsible for ourselves. And wonder what’s going on, right here. We’re avoiding the pain of digging deep within ourselves and figuring us out. So we’ll use distractions and focus on trying to ‘fix’ others, because maybe if we can fix them, we’ll be okay then. It doesn’t work that way. Obviously.
The only person who will never leave you and be with you until your death bed, is you. Don’t you think you’re worth investing in? Take the time to learn about yourself. Don’t worry about what he/she is doing, saying, thinking. You can’t control it anyway. So that’s you’re first step in letting go. Let go of the idea of trying to figure them out. Like Nat says, “they’re just not that special”. It’s stressful, exhausting, and you can’t do anything about it anyway.
I agree Demke! A parallel thought… Every time I read a complaint on a blog like this where someone (usually a woman) is upset because they were dumped or rejected or humiliated or treated disrespectfully in a hundred different ways and can’t understand why: “but I was so good to him! I did everything for him! I took him in when he was broke/drunk/unemployed/just got out of jail! I cooked/cleaned/gave him money/made sure life was easy for him! I was always happy, upbeat, never complained! I was always focused on him and his needs! I was so NICE AND LOVING AND UNDERSTANDING! etc. etc.” – when I hear that, I think BINGO! There’s the answer to why she got dumped and disrespected. No one respects someone who minimizes themselves in a relationship. No one respects a person who puts up with bad treatment under the guise of being long-suffering and uber-“supportive” – ironically, the person giving the bad treatment respects the other person least of all. Doing for others to the degree that you become a doormat – that isn’t love, and everyone knows it deep down. It’s a sign of something unhealthy and a clear red flag that the super nice, make sure everybody is happy, don’t-make-waves woman doesn’t respect herself. Men may appear to enjoy all this coddling and mothering, but inside they know they need someone strong who will kick them in the ass when it’s required and say “Buster, shape up or ship out! I’m not putting up with this crap anymore.”
It seems counter-intuitive but a woman (or man) who is too “nice and giving” usually becomes an object of contempt. Sad but true. But understandable if you believe that most people who indulge in crappy self-serving behavior, even if they aren’t completely conscious of it, are hungry for self-respect and looking for a partner who will help them find it. Someone who just crawls in their messy playpen with them instead of insisting they come out of there and clean up their act will not be taken seriously, will not be respected, and will eventually be dismissed.
I love this. You hit everything on the nail. Nice job. Thanks!
But what if you naturally just like taking care of people? Sometimes it bothers me when people say, “You need to do less!” but for me, it makes me happy to do those things. Is it really my fault that people don’t respect someone who does nice things for them? Its just so strange to me…when people do nice things for me, I am excited and grateful. Why is it that hard to appreciate niceness?
Jessika Jones, I so agree with you! It makes me happy to do nice things for people too and vice versa. With my ex, it seemed like we were both happy being good to each other etc. It’s only after I got screwed over that I started thinking maybe I was being too nice and he took advantage of that. I sometimes wonder if things would have been different if I had kept him on his toes more and not been so available.
It’s a shame some mistake kindness for weakness. That goes for anyone…boyfriends, friends, coworkers. It’s sad when you feel like you can’t even be yourself for fear you’re being ”too nice”. Maybe some of us don’t even realize when we’re being too nice. Where do you draw the line then. You just can’t win.
“It’s a shame some mistake kindness for weakness. That goes for anyone…boyfriends, friends, coworkers. It’s sad when you feel like you can’t even be yourself for fear you’re being ”too nice”. Maybe some of us don’t even realize when we’re being too nice. Where do you draw the line then. You just can’t win.”
I agree! I used to fall way to far on the being too nice scale and allowed myself to be taken advantage of. Then I started getting disgruntled and started giving to people mostly when I felt it was an equal give and take. If it started getting skewed, I’d hold back. I still struggle with it a bit. There’s a great book about this and people’s styles of giving/taking and how to spot the takers!
One key thing I took from it was when dealing with a taker, focus on what they are thinking, not what they are feeling! Makes it so much easier.
Here’s a link that summarizes it pretty nicely:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/careers/leadership-lab/the-difference-between-workplace-givers-takers-and-matchers/article25594837/
@Veracity, me too. I’m naturally a nice person so I struggle with where to draw the line with certain people, pull back etc. It’s a reminder that we need to pay close attention to other people and always be on our feet.
Thank you for the great article. I’ve often been the ”giver”. It can be good and bad. Plus, the workplace is full of different personalities so you have to learn how to deal with people you wouldn’t normally get along with….not to mention for most of the day too. I’ve worked with some rough folks in my career and there’s a thin line between standing your ground but being professional at the same time. It’s a daily struggle.
I disagree. While you should never let someone walk over you and disrespect you, love is supposed to conquer all things. So if you’re in a relationship or marriage and your partner starts having problems are you supposed to abandom them? Drugs and alcoholism is a completely different thing. But you SHOULD be there for your partner and do everything you can to make them happy. Thats what you do when you live someone. You never stop dhowering them with love. I have never not been attracted to a woman because she’s willing to do everything for me. Thats stupid. To say that the reason why a woman got dumped is because she was too available for her man is ignorant. And shows how foolish society has become. When you are in a relationship and or married you no longer live for yourself. You now have to think about another person. When you have a baby you are basically waiting on them hand and foot. While a grown adult is not a baby that needs to be waited on, same principal applies. You now have think about another human being. The bible says that is why a man will leave his mother and his father and he will stick to hus wife and the two will become ONE flesh. So you should treat your mate as you would treat yourself.
Of course self-love has a lot to do with it, but certain men mess with our heads as well in a way that you even start to doubt yourself in areas where you know that you are doing a great job, because lots of people have told you so. The problem is that the longer this goes on, the harder it is to leave, because you want to prove them wrong. Stupid, I know! Why does the opinion of one lousy prick seem to be more important that the opinion of some many other people?
Because on some level, we still think we’re not good or worthy enough, or deserve to be treated decently and cherished. I completely understand, and have unfortunately had the experience of continually being manipulated, lied to, cheated on… And still wanted him. (Wtf..? Lol) For over a decade. Mind you, I am a single mom w two kids, working, going to school at night. I was exhausted. Do you think he cared? He was cheating on me and then blamed it on me because I was too busy w everything else. Omg, thank God I woke up. Cause…I had hit rock bottom. Took me awhile to figure it all out the best I could. Toxic people w narcissistic traits to me, are the equivalent of what Heroin can do. They destroy peoples lives. But underneath our feelings of ‘not good enough’, etc., we know, deep down, something is really off. It doesn’t feel good (consistently), as soon as it seems great and… We’re thinking marriage, kids, and ‘This is it’, bam! He starts treating you poorly for no reason (yet, somehow he makes it your fault), backs away, we go crazy, etc., then he calls us crazy. And it’s a cluster. And they know damn well what they’re doing. It’s all about them. Always will be, until you stop worrying and obsessing about having a man (that man) in your life. And that you will not only be okay, but so much happier and better off standing on your own, learning about becoming the best woman you can, and are more than capable of being. But you can’t do it with a 180+ Lb monkey on your back. You will only get so far and feel drained all the time.
Stop ‘doing’ and ‘giving’ for these type of people, and stop feeling bad about stopping it. Because that’s what gets you suckered back in. We feel ‘bad’ for cutting them off, or getting pissed because we know we’re being mistreated.
I suggest being very aware and mindful of your reactions when dealing with these types of people. Less is more. Calm and cool is the better option. I started taking boxing classes and kicking & punching the heck out of a bag, weekly. I got in shape, let out my anger, had fun… It helped :). Our reactions sometimes are also what keeps us in that vicious cycle. We take so much, we blow up, they leave, we take them back because, well, look how we reacted! It’s our fault! Do you see the craziness of it?!
All I can say is… It did take time, work, and a real conscious effort on my part to finally let go, without anger. Sure, I cried myself to sleep some nights, but I felt more empowered and optimistic about my future letting go completely, than I ever had.
They only come back when they know you still don’t feel good enough about yourself, and know you’re not done, yet. They know you’re not done on their way out for the nth time, they know you’ll be anxiously waiting for their return. So, they go and play… And they’ve either gotten fed up w whoever they were pursuing, or they were rejected.
You want to know why they keep coming back? Stop looking out your window and checking your phone constantly, their Facebook, driving past their house to see if there’s a mysterious car in the driveway. They know you will still allow them to walk right back in, no matter what they’ve done.
Instead of wasting hours trying to figure them out, and don’t get me wrong, it’s healthy and wise to learn about relationships and becoming more confident and building your self-esteem, but try to keep the focus on yourself. You can’t figure out someone else when you’re avoiding what’s going on with you. Start there…
My ex knew I meant it when I told him straight-faced, and to his face, I was done. And that there’s no comma, or semi-colon at the end of that sentence anymore, period, And not to contact me ever again. And he hasn’t. They’ll be done when you’re done. So, get crack in’ ladies, do your homework on yourself… And get yourself out of that unecessary, waste of time mess.
Well said Demke, ‘they’ll be done when you’re done’. Your post really resonated with me. You sound like you’ve really been through it, and the whole cycle is exhausting when it’s on-off-on-off-on like that – man, it takes over your life. Well done for stopping the cycle.
Demke,
Perfect post! My new word is indifference. I wasted over 5 years waking up wondering if I would get the random text, the invitation to his bed (always after 9:00 at night), the crumbs, the other women, looking at his fb page, the crude, rude remarks, etc., etc. I am finally on the high road and working on loving myself. It doesn’t matter who he is seeing, what he is doing…he is no longer a part of my life. Indifference!
I believe some people will treat us poorly no matter how positive our self-image due to factors outside our control – as Nat says, they may lack awareness, it may habitual, or there may be other factors that we’re not aware of. Simply having healthy self-esteem does not give us control of the people around us. However, I do believe in the idea of “teaching people how to treat us.” Our reaction to such poor treatment says a lot about our state of mind. If we find ourselves being abused in a relationship, do we break up and leave, or do we keep going back, over and over again “hoping he’ll change.” As you say, Demke, “And when you believe you’re good enough, it’s not as difficult to let go off people who treat you poorly.” This is key.
I don’t think we always need to use this as a tool to work on ourselves. In some cases – yes, it could reflect lack of self esteem but in others we may be simply doing what we think is right. I was taught that to love someone is to believe in them and to work hard through tough situations. When they come back with all kinds of promises and resolve to to better, it’s understandable that we would want to give him that chance.
It is sometimes difficult to differentiate between what may be emotional abuse or just emotional immaturity. Either way, at some point we must realize that another chance is not going to help this person and walk away. It’s much easier said than done when we’ve invested so much time and emotion with one person but that is when we know our value and our worth. When we finally stand up and kick that bastard to the curb, then we are placing ourselves first and are on the path to freedom.
If they come back, ask yourself – am I ready to be back in that prison again?
“I was taught that to love someone is to believe in them and to work hard through tough situations.”
Amen! Thats how it should be but people who use us see this as a weakness and clingy. How sad they dont know what love is.
I’ve worked very hard to become the woman I am today & I have a very healthy self esteem & body image. I know I am not perfect but I am comfortable with my flaws & imperfections. I’m also a very empathetic person but at the same time I have a very low tolerance for bullshit. I’ve thought a lot about why the EUM I met about a year ago treated me with contempt & it wasn’t because because I didn’t respect myself. I think he treated me with contempt because his past experiences taught him that he could treat all empathetic individuals like crap & that I, like the rest, would take it & smile, beg, or plead, or chase, or whatever… Truthfully, I think he was quite surprised when I confronted him on his crappy behavior. I then immediately removed myself from his life. I thought that was the end of it because he was angry & ignored me for a while, thinking I would apologize. I didn’t. He knew damn well he deserved it. Unfortunately, after about 3 weeks he started the chase again. I still had feelings for him & couldn’t understand why he kept trying to hurt me. I eventually decided to ignore him altogether & pretend he didn’t exist when we had to be in the same room together. I have set my boundaries & I have stood firm by them through all of the emotional turmoil he has put me through. I’m tired of all of it though. I think he has been trying to wear me down as this has been going on for about a year already. The last time I saw him I ignored him & refused to make eye contact. I sensed he was angry & frustrated with my unwillingness to play along & stroke his ego. I’m tired of the mind games, covert manipulation, & his futile attempts to control me. I don’t know if it is now over but I have decided that if he tries his tricks again that I will confront him & finally speak my mind. I have remained silent long enough.
Nat – it never ceases to amaze me (and has happened time and time again) how just when I need encouragement or courage to keep moving forward and away from the person who hurt (and has everytime I have allowed her back into my life) me, I read a post From you that sets me right back on track and reminds me that, while being strong and facing the truth and not buying into the fantasy, is not easy, it is healthy and the only way to treat yourself with the same integrity the other person does not bring to the table. Every word of this post rings true and I needed to hear it all. Thank you! I love your books and posts.
Nat, this was spot on. We empaths do tend to assume others have our moral framework then are confused and hurt when they do seemingly irrational things. A good many folk are users who lack the ability or do not care that they are using you. These folk can suck years from your life. This is where BR comes in; we can learn from the experience of others, recognize warning signs, and bail before weget too attached. Am currently seeing a new guy, who compared to Narcboy, treats me like a queen and really seems to admire who I am. Still, I pay attention and don’t allow myself to have blinders on.
Noquay,
I am so happy for you!!! You are being treated like the QUEEN you are. Enjoy yourself. I have always admired your push to get what you want out of LIFE. You have laid out detailed plans (here on BR) to get what you want. I am so glad you have someone to spend time with.
You can’t see me, but I am jumping up and down. I am SO happy for you. I wish you the best in 2016 and I thank you for the kind words of encouragement you have shared with me. I hope your new love interest distracts you from the nonsense you deal with at work. You deserve this.
MJ
Thanks!
SOOOO happy to hear that, Noquay!!! Very best to you for 2016!!
Glad to hear there’s some positive change in your life. I hadn’t seen you on here for a minute, was wondering. Hope the trend continues.
Natalie, your articles are such nourishment to my soul. I have just given a year of my heart and being to what I believe is a narcissist. I cannot truly diagnose him but according to much of which I have researched on the effects on MY life and insides, it is clear to me. Possibly even Borderline Personality Disorder. I have not been strong enough to have no contact, but like Sammi, above, I am riddled with sorrow. For 2.5 months my body wracked with sobbing, which I learned were the results of many hurts from my past and it is good this situation helped bring some healing. But this man gave me nothing in return for my love but fed my need for parenting and affection of which I had gone without in childhood. I had more affection from him in this year than ever in my life and THIS is the draw to him. THIS is the addiction I have so hard a time letting go of. Last night he ‘jokingly’ texted me an invite to come over. I didn’t go. He has a “friend” of 30 years who, when he shared news of his singleness, packed up her bags and is moving here next week. Like Sammi above I feel drowning in my sadness and I am on the edge of depression. I am getting better as my need for physical contact has gone from hunger to habit, if that makes any sense. As of next week, with my replacement moved in, my brokenness will rear its ugly head again. But I will be set free from this man’s abusive put downs, and selfishness, shaming and blaming, while in his eyes he remains so righteous. A man of which I gave everything, and when I was spent, he wanted still more.
Thank you Natalie for your insight. I look for your posts and podcasts and glean much.
Beautifully put. Thank you!
Brilliant post, you nailed it 1000% insightfully yet again, Natalie, thank you!
This post also applies to my Mother, and to people who I used to think were friends.
It isn’t just about the girl-hut thing. It’s about hurtful behavior when I continue to participate in an unhealthy or delusionary relationship, period.
augggh- typo. girl-guy, not girl-hut.
A man I was interested in went silent on me, I resisted the urge to text him, which in the past I have done. I then remembered that he had complained about being misunderstood at work. We work in the same place at a mega corp. He said that people thought he was mean. Now I am thinking, the problem is other people are right and you have zero self awareness. This in turn makes me know that if he was to pop back in with an apology it would not be real.
However, I was reminded of the healing power of a real apology also at work and in life. One day last week my decision maker was broken for a moment. I made a half assed decision that impacted somebody I supervise who I also have a history of poor communication with. She has a strong personality. I told the other supervisor I worked with yesterday that I made a shitty decision and I absolutely had to apologize to this woman. So, I called her into the office and told her I was very sorry, that I made the wrong decision. I told her I felt terrible that my bad decision impacted her specifically and others and then told her what decision I should have made. She brightened up right away, said she was sorry for reacting poorly and thanked me for the apology and the reflection. We ended by agreeing to make an effort at better communication. It worked because she knew I was sincere, and I felt she was sincere. I was reminded that perhaps when I feel defensive about any relationship work, romantic, or non romantic, I need to reflect on my part and own it.
Thank you ladies, for your insight. I will read up on narcissistic personality disorder and try to understand how I got myself involved in this.
I’m hurting and confused right now.
My EUM had been giving me the silent treatment for the past two weeks. When he left (by in friending me on Facebook w/o a word), I contacted to tell him if he ever needed someone to talk to, my door was always open for him (ugh, why am I being so nice to him!)…he responded by ignoring my email, sending my Facebook message to spam (so I can’t tell if he read it or not), and just ignoring me but leaving all avenues of communication open. It was almost like he was taunting me: I’m so close yet so far. And him shunning me, really hurt. I haven’t been given the silent treatment or iced out since I was a teenager in high school.
A few days after icing me out, I emailed him and asked him to re-think his decision. I gave him until today to think about it until (we had plans scheduled for this Saturday) and told him if he’d like to resume our plans, to look me up.
He continued to ignore my existence and didnt respond with a word…that was two weeks ago.
Then I wrote on here and read your lovely, helpful responses and decided I need to work on myself and go no contact. I blocked him just from Facebook late last night, with the intentiOn of blocking him on my phone and email today.
Well, I wake up this morning and see that someone tried to reset my password. That wasn’t me. I’ve never had a password reset in over 5 years on Facebook. It had to be him. He’s the only person who knows the email address my Facebook is associated to, because that’s how was initially corresponded. I do not believe he was trying to hack me. I think he was trying to get my attention because today was the day I asked him to think it over by.
He wasn’t blocked on phone or email, so why on Earth do you reset my password to get my attention?
My best friend said that its like “he’s throwing pebbles at your window”, but she made me promise not to contact him, because she believes he only wants me to come back so he can continue to give me the silent treatment and regain control.
Why do they do this?! I don’t understand! A part of me wants to reach out to him, thinking it may be different this time. But resetting my password isn’t normal. I know why he did it though- he would never stick out his neck for me. He did everything in a passive aggressive way. He could have emailed or texted me, but THIS is how he chooses to get my attention?!
The even sicker part? Is that while I was on the phone with my BFF, I justified and tried to rationalize his behavior: “Well, it was the only way he could get a hold of me because he would never give up any control and risk texting or emailing me while he was blocked on Facebook.”
How sick am I?! My gut says my BFF is right and that if I respond in anyway, he’ll only place me back where I belong- on the outside looking in- to regain control.
Why is it that I would never accept this with anyone else? Why can’t I see him for what he is? How does he not know what he’s doing and what this does to me?! He’s in his early 40’s, he has a son, he’s a respected professional. He has friends and family that love him. So, if they love him, it’s me then, right?
He has over 500 facebook friends with people clamoring to see him. Then it has to be me?! Why am I excluded and extricated from his life?
I don’t understand this. My feelings were involved and I was always honest. I try to see things from his perspective.
I’m going to look for a therapist today. I don’t understand why in my 30 years on this planet, I’m accepting this treatment NOW in my life and defending this guy.
Thank you ladies. I feel a mess. My gut says not to trust him. For some reason, I think he may and slander me to his friends now that I’m blocked. Maybe I’m wrong.
Ugh. Thanks for listening.
*Now that’s he’s blocked.
But how someone is professionally, socially and to their family isn’t the same as how they behave in relationships. The inner AC comes out when emotions get involved (emotions that they’re often largely disconnected from) so of course it isn’t you that’s making him behave in these dysfunctional ways! The guy has issues with women; it’s nothing that you personally have done. I myself came across a guy who I imagine would be similar to your one if I had got involved. Luckily I rooted out his true nature before even the beginning stage between us and he knows that I know so I’ve never heard from him again. However HE also is ‘Mr Popular’/an extrovert, hundreds of ‘friends’ on Fakebook (that has nothing to do with how decent someone is by the way) and seems to get along great with his family. All means nothing if he’s chasing another girl (me) when he has a girlfriend, hides that girlfriend’s existence from me so I had to play detective, displays manipulative and generally disrespectful behaviour in his dealings with women.
I swear these guys are somewhere on the narcissistic spectrum; you just need to get rid of them out of your life, start a new year and be thankful they didn’t waste anymore of your time.
Oh by the way Mr Popular has split up with the girlfriend he hid from me now – lasted 15 months between them. I bet she dumped him as he seems to be one of those who hates being single. Most likely he’s a serial dater and the girls get fed up of his treatment after a while.
Thank you, Claire, for your words.
It’s so frustrating, isn’t it? When will it stop hurting? How do you begin to move on? I guess I need to stop trying to understand something I never will.
I’m glad you got away from him!
Oh Sonia, it really is all surface. Scratch the surface and you’ll see people who won’t give him the time of day. He perhaps has doting family (mother, sisters?) who believe his BS, and a gaggle of women who will eventually quit him, and loads who have moved on and are shot of him, and guys who thinks he’s a douche. You’ll find them if you look. I’m sure I read once that 130 friends is optimal on FB, much more than that and its indiscriminating. But really, it’s all noise.
I met an EUM yesterday. I was in the airport and we got chatting, he got me coffee and we went through check-in and security together, meandered round the shops, then found our plane seats were next to each other, remarkable coincidence. So this was a talented, successful, intelligent, outgoing, handsome guy, musical, same politics, same comedy taste, great discussion about our childhoods and families and past relationships, a pleasant 7 hours together, wouldn’t it be nice if this turned into a romantic story and was somehow ‘fate’?
But instead I’d met charismatic EUM mark 12, spookily similar model to the others.
Flag 1 – he’s not over his ex.
Flag 2 – showing me his facebook, the pics he’s been posting, the comments he’s got back. Did he think this would impress me? I told him I quit FB because of people like him!
Flag 3 – he’s into BDSM, not what I’m looking for.
For all I know, he wasn’t interested in anything with me anyway, but I know before my last lesson, I would have latched onto his promise to come and hear me sing, and believed I could turn it into something different, that it was meant to be.
Instead, we said goodbye and had a friendly hug at the baggage reclaim!
I’ve never heard of an “optimal” number of friends on fb. I think different people use fb for very different reasons. I’ve even heard of different fb “personality types” like the myers-briggs, only for online. I think one area where people can have problems or hang-ups is assuming that social media sites like fb mean the same thing to everyone else that it means to them.
Yep, you’re right, some use it for their nearest and dearest, some for work/ common interest reasons, in which case there should be as many as possible. But I think the point was that if it’s purely for social networking and not at all work or activity related, you could feasibly have 130 acquaintances you’d say hi to if you saw them in the street and actually like them, but probably not more than that. But it’s just a number.
I like the way you think, Happy B. Although, for me personally, I find that having 530 friends on there is not unreasonable because I really do know a lot of people. Use it to keep up with a lot of people from college, boarding school, and another high school I went to. I think every person probably has a number they feel comfortable with & beyond that it’d be awkward.
Very smart screening. Bullet dodged. You have to get to a mental space where you can seriously take it or leave it, and be ready to leave it if you see something you don’t like. Get ready for people to tell you you’re “too picky” though.
I think you were replying to happy b but for my part I’m lucky in that I’ve never been surrounded by people who stick their nose into my romantic life. I’m quite reserved/introverted and have always had a fairly small circle of friends who I trust – good people who don’t boundary cross in that way.
Hi Sonia,
What the Christmas season is all about if one truly reflects on such i.e. new life and time to re-evaluate and make the necessary changes that will allow one to make the most of one’s own life. It is not to say you cannot empathise with the guy in question (from a great distance like in Shrek’s far far away kingdom) however the freezing you out clearly indicates his level of immaturity and his need to sort his own issues out and for you to sort out yours which I am likening to co-dependency. This really is not about the guy rather why you are drawn to such a child-like personality, you cannot fix him (nor force any type of response) and it is not your job to.
I think it is time now for you to get real and make the serious decision of whether this guy is adding anything to your life. If not consistently and in a mutually fulfilling way then keep working for a better you and keep it moving from men who feel it is ok to treat anyone so poorly and with disregard. Again his problems are not there for you to fix or shelter him from, plus it seems he has it going for himself (professional, loved by others etc) so it’s not like his world is going to fall apart when you are no longer in it.
You have a shining beacon right beside you in your friend giving you most sensible advice. Stay true to wise words while you work out feelings, thoughts, and questions coming at you thick and thin right now (Nat really emphasises a feelings journal) as clamouring for his attention is really not holding yourself in good stead with yourself and most likely him. The guy is where he is in his life and he cannot be forced to act in any other way than how he knows to at the moment. You’ve reached out and nothing so conclude that as his level of immaturity and stop enabling that with more contact and ultimatums.
And listen please to your gut telling you to not trust him, do due diligence on him if that is the case (and if you want to waste more energy). And don’t rule out a new female on the scene as generally guys act up when this happens.
Thank you for your kind words and insight, Gina. They are much appreciated.
It’s always easier to focus on the external than deal with the internal issues within our soul. That seems like some scary work and very tough. I’m so glad for everyone on here and Nat, as I don’t know what I would have done had I not found this blog. Everything I’ve read, I’m like “so it’s not just meeeeeeee.” LOL!
Sonia,
You’re wayyy too focused on him. And you don’t know if it was him who reset your password. You’re coming off as a doormat, no wonder why he’s ignoring you and treating you the way he is (not to say that it’s right). You’re reversing the roles here and doing the guys job. If you want to stop feeling as hurt and confused. Take a few steps back, wayyy back. Try to take some breaks from Facebook and your phone. I know you’re spinning/obsessing about him. You need to just stop reaching for him. Your actions scream desperation, and is that how you want to come off? You’re better than that. You don’t need to be desperate for anyone. You’re chasing him, and it’s pushing him away, whether he’s narcissistic or not.
Take a ‘Sonia’ vacation, and when you start to obsess over him, interject thoughts of how YOU want to be treated, what you want. The kind of man you want in your life. The fun you can be having with your friends and family.
The biggest mistake we make is worrying so much about them and completely neglecting our own needs and desires. Learn how to value who you are. You are so far gone from your needs and wants… That your actions scream ‘I don’t value me, I’m not worthy, I’m undeserving’. It could be any man, and they would be turned off to that.
And even though you’re struggling right now with all of this, the answer is simple. Take this time to take care of you. And treat yourself as how you would want any man or anyone to treat you… And people will begin to treat you that way. And when/if he comes sniffing around, you may not even care. Just stay consistent with treating yourself in high regard. You are already important and you do matter, so stop treating yourself as if you don’t. Keep practicing it. Be aware of it every time you want to behave in a desperate way, catch yourself and step back, regroup, and treat you like the worthwhile woman that you are.
Unfortunately, I’m certain that it was him that did that. I had previously walked away from him before, asked him not to contact me and disabled my Facebook to get clarity when he emailed me. Only time he ever scrambled to make any effort was when I was walking away.
Only person with the email address is him. My phone isn’t connected to my Facebook and username reset is disabled, so you have to know my email. My email itself wasn’t hacked. That was the day I gAve him to think it over by. To wake up and see that password reset had me freaking out.
Hadn’t happened in 5+ years on Facebook, I have a long name with a hyphen as an Email, and when you get hacked, that isn’t how it’s done.
It was him, throwing a pebble at my window, probably in shock and therefore cautious about losing the control and doing anything to be noticed.
I went on a NPD site and there were examples of others, friends/lovers/spouses, who had their password reset on their birthdays and anniversary, so that the EUP could get some attention. In most cases, the EUP, once with the upper hand, continued to shun the person.
Not that any of that matters. I’m certain it was him. Too much evidence to be anything else and along the lines of his MO.
Not that any of that matters. It’s relieving to see him act this way in the end and cements my thoughts about him. It was always a power struggle that he was going to win. And you’re right, I did feel and act desperate. Oddly enough, I have never acted like this with any other human being before. So it has caught me offguard now.
He’s still blocked on Facebook. I have now blocked him on emails and my phone. I occasionally think about his reaction, then put it out of my mind, because his reaction and wellbeing need to stop being of any importance to me.
I’ve never been attracted to, or had a relationship with this kind of man before. It felt off the entire time. My gut screamed for me to go, but I stayed, hoping it would change and the level of connection would never come around again…
Which begs the question:
Was that really a connection I felt, or rather, attracted to the scarcity that was him? He doled out attention like it was a hot commodity…how lucky I felt to hang out with him because his other friends were lucky to see him 2-3x’s per year, if THEY were lucky.
And oh, how I wanted to be the one to change him, because then that would validate me, the time I was putting in, and the effort I was making.
If this was ANYONE ELSE in my life, I’d be freaked out that they reset my password and pissed off at the treatment. But him, I give a pass to and make excuses for.
I’m glad he did that, because now I can have some clarity that it wasn’t just me acting like that. That dysfunctional. It was him, too. And oh my, how I’ve been beating myself up.
All for what? Crumbs of attention. White lies. Excuses. Scolding me like a child when I apologized to him.
I wouldn’t have accepted a friendship like this, from anyone else. Let alone whatever it is that he and I were engaged in…friendship, FWB, etc.
Its easier to look for distractions outside of ourselves, rather than to do the dirty work, the tough work, on the inside.
Thank you for your input. It’s so nice to correspond with nice people like yourself, willing to hear my issues and be objective ????
“The biggest mistake we make is worrying so much about them and completely neglecting our own needs and desires.”
This was my problem. Was he a lying a$$hole? Yes! But did I allow it whenever I kept making myself available to him even though I knew he wasn’t meeting my needs and desires? Yes!Yes! and YES!
At the end of the day, I was the one who should have walked away a lot sooner. My guy would say that he was serious about me but his actions were very casual, always reverting me back to nothing but a glorified booty call. Basically his words and actions were not matching. He’d say that he thought more of me, that he had feelings for me, that he valued me as a person and that he thought I was someone special. But I mostly felt like some chick he was banging whenever it was convenient. He kept in touch and would call and text me almost everyday but when it came down to actually seeing each other, it was always very hard to do. He never had time and was always canceling plans. He’d always say that he is just too busy and could only see me late at night. Can’t believe I fell for that! I figured that if he was talking to me every day then he must really be interested in me so I allowed him to come over late at night and leave before dawn. I allowed him to cancel plans any time we tried to go on real dates then all of the sudden he’d have “free time” at the last minute but it was so late that all we could do was grab drinks at a bar. But here I was just feeding into his words. At least he’s calling me everyday…is what I’d say to myself. And if I disappeared, he was always worried so I thought that meant he cared…he cared about me because he wouldn’t let me go for too long. But the truth is that I only got to see him once or twice a month and each time it was nothing but drinks and then sex that never lasted until the morning because he was dressed and gone promising to do something nicer next time. He’d also make all these promises that he’d do all these wonderful things with me (take me on trips, etc.) but never could stick to it.
I finally realized that he wasn’t serious about me at all when I started to express my feelings about his behavior. We’d been “dating” for 8 mos and there was no progression from my status of glorified booty call. He began to get annoyed and frustrated that I had problems with his behavior. He was dismissive of my feelings and told me that he didn’t have time to deal with my non-sense. He said that me wanting to spend time with him and me wanting to know where our relationship was going “non-sense.” According to him, he’s doing only what he can do (because he’s such a busy man) and doesn’t have the patience for a woman who wants anything more than what he’s offering. So naturally things ended at that point. What bothered me was that he could have made that clear from the beginning instead of future faking me.
But somehow I felt like I was the one with the problem for rocking the boat. Somehow it was my fault, I made him run away by talking about my feelings again, stupid me! I felt bad for asking for more time (Why would you ask for more time when you know he’s too busy for that?)
But most importantly, I forgot about me, I forgot that I NEED more time. I forgot about me in this situation! What do I want? What do I need? I need to find a partner who can actually commit to a dinner date, I need a partner who makes me feel safe in the relationship regardless if he’s busy or not. I need a partner who can at least stay for breakfast. I need a partner who can schedule plans for a trip and we actually do it! Screw the fact that I wasn’t being accommodating enough for him. How accommodating was he being for me? On a scale from 1-10, he was a solid 3! And I only give him a 3 because he did try to call me and help me whenever I needed him for things that weren’t related to our relationship. But as far as him picking one-day (out of 8 mos) to do something with me that I would like…nope! That was impossible. Not enough time for that! Yet he was out with friends and other people all the time.
Ladies, ask yourself…what do you want? The more you ask this, the less you’ll care about these men and what they do/don’t do for you.
Eventually you can finally say to these men..”I don’t want you!”
Sonia,
Glad you’re reading about NPD. To learn the ins-and-outs of it is devastating, horrifying and fascinating all at the same time — but it’s extremely important for you, us, and the whole of society to throw as much light on the topic as possible so that we can pick them out and render their shenanigans useless.
Your friend is right to say he will throw pebbles at your window. But you’ve got to understand that he’s NOT throwing pebbles because he likes you, wants to get back together and is being a bit shy about it. That would be a long way from the truth. He’s throwing pebbles because he wants to continue manipulating you, sucking up your precious time and attention, and torturing your emotions all for shits-n-giggles. Those are the terms he’s dictating. Why? Because it’s how textbook sociopaths run relationships. Sounds weird, right? That’s because they are weird. They don’t actually feel anything for anyone, and they consider that to be an advantageous strength over empaths, who they consider weak and stupid for having feelings for others. Weak and stupid and ripe for manipulating. Don’t fall for that any more. It’s not a relationship and there’s nothing to save here. Save yourself and your sanity instead. Block everything, respond to nothing. Build a wall up to the sky and seal it off. Give yourself time to heal and you’ll soon be wondering why the hell you ever wanted to have anything to do with someone like that in the first place. Hundreds of ladies and gents on BR can tell you that’s what they did — and it gave them their lives back!
Griselda,
Thank you for your response. It was certainly enlightening to go on that narc site and read from others about how these kind of people operate, like resetting your password, etc.
And the way you described it, me trying to convince myself that this was his way of showing me that he’s interested, was way off.
He was merely frantic because I went away. Because he no longer had control. Because I did something he wasn’t expecting (like block him on Facebook). And that those kind of people do weird things like that to get you back.
I confided to my mother about this and she said “dear, it’s probably not him”, to which my best-friend who was there with me backed me up and said, “no, I believe her and with everything she has told me: it’s him.”
So it was very relieving to go on that narc website. I even left a comment and asked why do they do these things and a forum moderator said “these people have to be the ones doing the leaving. They hate to be abandoned, even if they are giving you the punishment of the cold shoulder. If you leave the situation, basically like picking up your ball and leaving to find a nicer friend to play with, they will do weird things to try and get you to come back, depending on how long you were involved with them.”
So he and I were involved for only a couple of months, so I don’t expect too much weirdness aside from the password reset and it’s easy to do that from the leisure of your home.
I have taken up your recommendation and blocked him sky-high, lol. He remains to be blocked on Facebook, phone, and I have changed my email address and associated my Facebook with that new email address.
I have a separate email address just for emails, not connected to social media (I did this months ago, to avoid being hacked as most of my friends were) and he has that email too, so for that one I filtered his emails straight to trash and into oblivion.
I’m on a little high right now from exerting the control I could and regaining a sense of my power that I had given up, but what goes up must go down, and i know I’ll have an itch to contact him just like I had before, but I have to resist that.
How on Earth did I become attracted to that? To sacrifice my own wellbeing for. I feel emotionally exhausted, drained of self-esteem.
I’m sure blocking him in every capacity will bring a level of mental clarity.
A part of me wonders, will he be normal for the next woman? If the next woman gets the good version of him, doesn’t it mean that it was me that was not good enough? Is it even NORMAL to ask myself this? Something I’ve never asked myself before?
Thank you for listening, Griselda. It certainly is cathartic to write here.
“Happy to help!” I wear a badge on my chest with that haha…
It won’t come as a surprise to you, but no, there is no other version of him. It’s only ‘mask on’ inevitably followed sooner or later by ‘mask off’. All future conquests get the same sorry excuse of a man — the only difference will be how long it takes for them to stop eating the shit sandwiches he’s serving and boot him out of their lives.
Remember that personality disorders are permanent and pervasive. Permanent and pervasive: no exceptions. There is no cure, no treatment, and they don’t somehow get ‘better’. Ever.
Wow, only a couple of months? For all of this drama, I thought it had been a couple of decades, lol. But listen to me, he won’t change. I was involved with one of these guys – more or less – for FIVE years. Not one iota of him changed, and five years later, he and I still keep in touch, and he’s STILL the same! Unlike most everyone else on here, I am still friends with my EUM. I got to the point where I no longer wanted to reunite with him in a relationship nor does his general personality (passive aggressive, insensitive, sneaky, lying, etc) bother me because I don’t expect anything else from him. I take the good (he’s very funny, we have the same sense of humor, he’s extremely reliable, and oddly one of those EUMs who, if I asked him to come help me move on a rainy day, actually would) without expecting that bit of good to turn into a relationship. However, let me stress, I went through a long period of NC to detox from him before I got to the point where I could just be semi-friends with him (not like we hang out, we have seen each other once in a year- we mostly email).
Anyway, my point being, you are very lucky that you have only two months behind you with this guy – and not years, like me and others on this board. This will be dangerous for you, because you’ll be thinking, ‘well it was only 2 months, maybe I didn’t get to know him well enough.’ Trust me, people are on their BEST BEHAVIOR in the beginning. If this is his best behavior, imagine what is to come?!
You fell for him because narc/psychs/socs are extremely charming and charismatic and lots of people do. Don’t get down on yourself about it. There’s nothing necessarily WRONG with you. In fact, there’s a lot that is right if you have figured him out this early. (Thank god for BR and the internet, am I right?)
Just cut him out, go NC, and within a few weeks or months, you will be back on track. You are much luckier than those who have spent years and even have kids with these soul destroyers.
No, they do not change. No, you will not be the catalyst that makes him change. No, you are not going to ‘win’ anything (except the booby prize). And who cares if he suddenly turns into Prince Charming with the next woman – he wasn’t that with YOU and it’s how he is with YOU that counts.
Good luck!
Just wanted to add in that I too am friends *of a sort* with the single EUM I know. We may physically be in each others’ company 2 or 3 times a year, at one of his ‘gigs’. But if I needed a ride to a car repair shop, he would do that for me. If he wants me to be his date for a high school reunion, I have done that and would do it again. Although we have known each other for two decades, we have never gotten any emotionally closer than we were after knowing each other for two months. Our knowledge of each other never travels beyond the superficial. Any woman looking for emotional connectedness with him is destined to be lonely in that relationship. For me, the realization of that fact occurred in 2011, and I permanently ended the FWB thing with him. It had been sporadic anyway, with years in-between each attempt I made to use FWB as a survival mechanism. I still recall how happy I was the minute I said “No more” to FWB with him. And I STILL feel that happiness!
Yes – Year 2016, The Year of No Assclowns! Terrific.
Happy New Year, everyone!
This was my first encounter with a narcissist. At least to this extreme. Hung in amidst all the confusion and manipulations. He was always having a childish tantrum over things I still don’t understand. I am co-dependent. And a codependent, as I have researched can do the perfect dance with a narcissist. One is a giver and the other takes without reciprocation. If you type in
“Ross Rosenberg” in tube you will find out most all you want to know to try and understand what has happened to us. Yes, for me the breakup was the most excruciating pain I have ever endured. I still am not strong enough to have no contact if he calls. Do I love him or is it my addiction to him? Probably a bit of both.
Lori, please choose ‘you’.
I think your question is a good one — is it love or addiction? I’d say both. Of course you can love someone with a dangerous personality disorder, the same as you can love someone with any other kind of incurable mental disorder. Apparently women from all over the world write sincere love letters to Charles Manson. Ok it’s an extreme example but think about that a moment. Where are these ladies’ heads? Do they think there’s a different version of Charles Manson in there somewhere? A loving, empathetic, understanding man who reciprocates their feelings?
I have no idea who coined this laughable phrase: “Doing bad things doesn’t make you a bad person” but um, oh yes it does. Yes indeedy do, it most certainly does. I say this because we — as people — are the sum of our actions. Actions are ultimately the only things that count in our lives, especially the actions we make that affect other people.
So when you take a good look at who it is you love, or what it is you’re addicted to, if it’s bad — it’s bad.
These blogs are amazing. Thanks to my friend Jess for sending me here. I am going through this right now! I am being ghosted and lied to by my EUM because I sent an amazing list of his awesome traits on Xmas Day (of all days) as a gift as I couldn’t afford material things.
His issues, not mine.
I am proud that I shared my thoughts and feelings. He was good at dishing it (he’s a FF and a FF , hehehe) but he clearly can’t take it.
Here’s to you, 2016. Looking forward to not dating these clowns anymore.
Jooolz,
Agree with Nat’s site. And unlucky guy alright failing to seeing his own good traits, and not even recognising such even when it’s literally spelled out to him. Keep being the beautiful you, clowns will always be blinded by that 🙂
I needed this article today. I have been reflecting on the year and trying to figure out how I will do better for myself in 2016. I started thinking about my ex. All the plans we made, the things he said and of course the lies and his inability to be consistent, loyal or faithful.
Today I got a msg from his sister wishing me happy holidays and telling me how great i am and how the family loves and misses me. I broke down in tears just thinking his family loves me but he doesn’t. We could have had a great life together.
In reality he didn’t want a life together, otherwise he wouldn’t be an ex. Therefore, he isn’t the one for me. I am making peace with that everyday after 3months but reflecting on why he didn’t do what he said he would do is still painful.
Your story is the same as mine. My ex’s family also was very sad when we broke up. Take it as a great compliment because it truly is. You’ll find someone else.
I have never commented before, but I’ve been reading the wonderful Natalie’s posts for a few years now and in the past two weeks been here daily, due to a charming narcissist I’m trying to go cold turkey from. I’ll be honest it’s absolutely sucked not talking to him, or knowing how he is, especially over the holidays, but I’ve learned the hard way in the past from relationships with similar guys that keeping the door ajar to someone who isn’t ever going to be fully present or want a healthy relationship, is just about the most toxic thing a woman can do to herself. Believe me, I’ve dedicated years at a time to unbalanced, controlling, EU muppets. I’ve tried to help them, be there for them, wait for them, been the other woman, all that jazz. Not proud. Deep down I know this guy is the same = not good for my head/heart/wellbeing – so weighing it up, a bit of short-term ‘ouch’ is preferable to another year or so of the emotional rollercoaster of engaging, which in my case usually involves putting my life on hold to a certain extent (I’ve waited in for a phone call on a Saturday night, been excited about the crumbs of a weekly text, the lot). So this is the first time I’ve ever just walked away without trying to scratch the itch/text him/tell him I care/check he’s ok/play games/lean forward/chase him/act cool to make HIM feel better while inside I’m really dying of disappointment etc etc. This was a relatively new relationship of a couple of months (and he’s not a bad guy, just an EU one who has let me down a lot), so pulling the plug this early and not giving him a chance to let me down further has felt very unnatural to me. It’s been like coming off crack (I imagine) – as my gosh these guys are pure addictive, but I’ve finally decided to own my contribution to these relationships and stop the crazy. I’ll let you know how it goes.
Anyway I wanted to comment because I read Sonia’s post.
Sonia: please do not engage with this guy anymore. I completely understand how you feel, in these situations we want answers, we become Sherlock Holmes and Miss Marple and Jessica Fletcher rolled into one trying to work out a) why they behave like they do towards us and b) what we did wrong.
You did nothing wrong. You say several times how nice you were, how understanding, which I imagine is why you’re so confused by him – but guys like that, guys that think it’s ok to just ghost, they don’t care how sweet and thoughtful you are, or that you’d never treat someone that way, because to them, it’s NORMAL to behave so rudely/thoughtlessly/ridiculously. It’s THEIR normal to do that. Enough books have been written on the subject, yet still some guys do the ignoring/disappearing act and still we go 10 Rounds of ‘What Did I Doooo To Cause This?!’ It’s HIS stuff, not yours. You don’t know why he did it, so why not go with the 90% possibility that he’s a douche, instead of the 10% possibility that it’s all your fault?
You may never get an explanation or an apology, because guys like that rarely own their own bad behaviour, but I do know you can’t reason with crazy. And trying to reset your facebook password (if indeed it was him – it may well not have been) to get your attention is CRAZY. And you believing that someone would reset your password to get your attention is also pretty crazy, as is even putting up with that BS. As is entertaining the possibility he’s trying to communicate with you and you should therefore respond/reach out in return. As is wanting this guy back in your life. I’m not saying you’re crazy, by the way, I know full well we’ll tell ourselves anything when we like someone and want them to like us back, but you said yourself, your gut is telling you not to trust him. Please listen to that. That is your inner voice, your reason, your subconscious, telling you this is all wrong. However attractive this man is to you, however he made you feel in the good times, however strong your pull is towards him, however much you think he was special, or real, or meant to be, or the one, he’s ignored your last few attempts to get in contact, and if you look at the bigger picture, that doesn’t sound special, that sounds horrible for you and unnecessarily rude. If the friend of yours you were talking to on the phone told you about a guy treating her so disrespectfully, what would you tell her to do?
And finally, if he ‘slanders’ you to his friends on facebook (again, you don’t know if he will) what do you care? A 40yr old guy slandering a girl who has been nice to him is an idiot, and I expect if any of them are close friends of his, then they’ll know exactly what he’s like already… If you possibly can, stop torturing yourself trying to work it all out because this guy probably isn’t torturing himself about it. And congratulations on not contacting him for 2wks, even though it feels empty and crappy and as if you’re not being friendly, you’re doing the right thing and it WILL get better (at least, that’s what I’m telling myself….)
Lilstar,
Thank you for your response. I do feel crazy. I would have never accepted this type of behaviour before, so why now?
I went on a website for narcissistic personalities and lo and behold, there are other people on there- all who have written posts before me- as to how the friends/lovers/spouses in their life have reset their facebook passwords as a way to get their attention. And my friend was right, in most cases, those kind of people just continue to shun you. It was actually relieving to read those stories. Whew! In my gut, as well as my bestfriend’s, we both knew that’s what he was doing. He was only interested in me as I was walking away.
How sad/sick/flawed of me to entertain him coming back into my life, like things would be different. Like I could change things.
It’s so nice to meet nice ladies like yourself, hearing your stories. It’s so relieving, just like it was to read about others on that narcissistic site. I can relax a little now, lol.
How are you doing? Have you been drawn to these type of men before?
It’s different for me, because usually I go screaming/running in the opposite direction when I meet these kind of guys. LOL. Why, on Earth, nowwwww! Thank you for your candor. It helps to hear an objective point of view, one that doesn’t have the veil over it- like mine 🙂
Lilstar,
So you walked away from you EUM, cold turkey? When you’ve walked away before, did it feel like- what I could only equate to- as withdrawal?
Did you always feel the need to explain yourself as you were walking away? I’ve noticed that with this guy, I felt the need to always explain why I was doing what I was doing, feeling bad if I didn’t. I NORMALLY wouldn’t feel that way.
I feel good. I just blocked him on text/e-mail and changed my email address, to avoid it getting reset again.
On that narcissistic site, many talk about how those sorts of folks hate the feeling of being abandoned, even if they are in the middle of giving YOU (me, lol) the silent treatment. Wow.
I feel kind of on a high right now, but I know I’ll come crashing down and want to reach out to him again- as I had done before (I had begged for his presence in my life, before)…but I can’t. I need to love myself than put myself through this.
This site is so helpful and is like a beacon of hope! I think when I get that inkling to talk to him, I’ll visit this blog.
It’s so hopeful to me to hear that now you recognize the signs and walk away quicker. That’s certainly a goal of mine, too, as this really sucks.
Hi Sonia,
Thanks for asking how I’m doing! Today actually feels pretty good after a week of dragging myself through Christmas. I’ve been listening to music, cleaning, chatting to friends – all stuff I’ve felt too exhausted/upset to do recently. Last week I turned down holiday party offers because I couldn’t face them and I’d ground to a halt for a while there; nothing felt enjoyable without him in my life. Ugh what a feeling!
Oh yes I’ve been drawn to these types of men before – they’re all I’m drawn to if I’m honest, which says a heck of a lot about me doesn’t it! But I’m slowly learning that ‘nice’ guys don’t equal dull, and dramatic guys who have already-complicated ‘my wife doesn’t understand me’ backgrounds and come on strong then reduce it to leaving a trail of crumbs whilst acting dramatic/controlling you if you don’t fall into line, don’t equal love.
You are not sad/sick/flawed – you really liked the guy and you’re human. Something I’ve had trouble with is reaaaally beating myself up when relationships go wrong and it’s not been my fault (if it has been my fault or 50/50 – and I have had some healthy ones where that’s the case – then of course you do a little of that). Interestingly, I partly beat myself up because I’m an intelligent, attractive, strong, career woman so I can’t believe my judgement of a guy can have been so skewed, which leads to lots of ‘why didn’t I see that coming?!’ and ‘well it MUST have been something special because I refuse to see that my judgement’s that bad so I MUST now salvage it/make it work at any cost to my self worth’ thoughts. And because I put the guy on such a pedestal that I think he’s amazing and if he doesn’t ‘want’ me then I must be the opposite. It took my Dad saying over Christmas ‘imagine you saw someone on the street with a child, and they spoke to it like your inner voice talks to yourself. You’d call Child Protection Services!’ He’s right, a constant voice in my head effectively telling me off where men are concerned is dangerous and damaging. So don’t you do it either please!
You know you don’t haaaaave to come crashing down again as you put it, right? You could just stay on that high, just saying. And don’t try to get away with secretly telling yourself that not contacting him might elicit a reply from him just cos these sorts of men hate abandonment – it may well do, but is that REALLY the man you want? A big baby man-child that you had to ignore in order for him to turn around and see if you were still there? That is game playing (I have done this too of course, but in the long-run it doesn’t end with a happy, healthy relationship, it ends with being stuck in a game) – which is exhausting let’s face it.
You say you felt bad about not telling him why you had stopped contacting him. That’s natural, because you’re a well-balanced, nice human being. But don’t forget you have contacted him a bit and he’s not responded, so he knows EXACTLY why you’re now stopping, because to continue would be like asking to be ignored again = asking to be hurt. And you’re better than that. Smarter than that. You know it, and more importantly HE knows it.
If you feel bad about leaving it all so unfinished or it feels unconcluded to you, then if you can, wish him well, just in your head. It’s very hard to do, but wish him love and light and a peaceful 2016 and wish yourself the same. Feel a bit sorry for him, if anything. Feel glad you’re not going to be drawn in further as that wouldn’t be the best thing for you. A lot of relationship stuff, especially with narcissistic men, is to do with control, and us feeling out of control and wanting to gain back the control to make ourselves feel better and that everything is going to be ok. You CAN gain back the control, if indeed that is important to you, by making the decision to leave him in 2015 and wishing him all the best. Wishing someone well who has hurt you and ignored you might sound a bit mad, but I’ve found it helps with letting go of the crazy-making idea of trying to ‘make’ him behave how you would like him to. Just an idea. He’s on his path and you’re on yours, and that’s ok. And remember he won’t have had a personality transplant overnight – whatever girl he winds up with, will get the same deal you got. Meanwhile whatever guy you wind up with in 2016, will be a lucky, lucky man.
In answer to your question I’ve never just ‘stopped’ cold turkey like this, I’ve always left the door open, so it does indeed feel like withdrawal, bereavement, all kinds of hideous, and it hurt like hell for the first few weeks. In my case, I met him on a trip, we spent an amazing weekend together, I then flew home, he kept in touch daily for 2mths and I went back to see him for another amazing visit. But in the end we got into a discussion and I won’t bore you with the details but he didn’t want to do the whole LDR thing (which he’d been quite successfully doing for 2mths, but anyway…) so I went a bit ultimatum-y and said in that case we’d better say goodbye, and he didn’t exactly put up a fight, which wounded my pride and disappointed me because I really, really liked him and thought he’d be unable to let me go. Yikes! After the heavy chat we were texting and being funny and light right up until I got on the plane, and then I landed at the other end and I didn’t message him and he didn’t message me and….here we are. Every morning I woke up hoping to hear from him, and every evening went to bed devastated that I hadn’t. All was dark. And then slowly reality has kicked in that – for whatever reason – neither of us has reached out, and it’s done. Yes it’s felt very alien to me not to say ‘erm, actually….you know that goodbye thing I said? Lol I didn’t mean it! I want to still get texts from you! Can we be friends? Can we, like, stay in touch? Please? On any terms? Because I miss you and we shared something sooooo special, do we have to now be total strangers?’ but like yours, my gut is pretty trustworthy and tells me that is not the way forward. The way forward is clearing the decks of guys like that, because while I’ve made him sound lovely, I’m afraid to say there were many red flags along the way that I chose to ignore as I liked him so much. I took the cues, but in the wronnng way. For example: his ‘poor me’ attitude to his exes, whom he referred to as ‘all psychos’ (so with that I made a note to self: never act like a psycho – ie never call him on his BS), his constant control of his time and his schedule (so with that I made a note to be a good girl and fit in around him), his rages when stuff went wrong at work because he was sooo busy and important and stressed (so with that I made a note to not bother him with my work dramas and just be beguiling and lovely and fun and a welcome distraction), his stories about how all the girls at work flirted with him (so with that I made a note to be BETTER than all those girls and different to all those girls in order to keep his attention), his cocky admission that he could get any girl he wanted but he’d chosen me (so with that I made a note to be very thankful about this and feel very lucky), his self-congratulatory stories about how much his employees ‘loved’ him and what a great boss he was (I made a note that he must therefore be a great guy and again, wasn’t I lucky to have him shine his light on me), his dramatic and complicated personal life as a newly separated-man from a woman he only married last year (ugh, that should’ve rung alarm bells if nothing else!), his breaking dates/not phoning when he’d promised and coming up with heart-tugging but dramatic and likely BS excuses – my daughter is sick, we’ve had a death in the family – (to which I could not possibly argue or make a fuss about, but obviously only be sympathetic). The list goes on. All stuff that didn’t feel quiiiiiite right, but that I chose to explain away as we do when we’re falling for a guy like this. Of course there are normal, lovely guys that get stressed at work and have sick daughters, but this charming, glib guy was just a lot of drama over all. And I know deep down that a more well-balanced girl would’ve had very different reactions to those people-pleasing ones I had above! Of course when he wanted me he REALLY wanted me, and said and did a lot of lovely things, which felt very exciting and very attractive, so I was able to put that feeling above any doubts.
One other thing which looking back is really cheesy and I have to laugh at this now, he was keen to tell me he went to the gym every day and ‘lifted per-ritty heavy weights’ (his words, while showing me his arms and complaining they weren’t ‘ripped’ enough) and also on our first date very earnestly and seriously pointed out that he had ‘a good head of hair, whereas lots of men just don’t.’ I found that insecurity/vulnerability endearing and liked that he was opening up and sharing it with me. Dear God! What baloney. I’ve made him sound like a real catch haven’t I… My goodness this website is helpful in seeing things as they really are 🙂
You’ll get there, Sonia, it’s ups and downs but you will, I promise.
Sonia, you got addicted so easily because of ‘intermittent reinforcement.’ Look it up. It it much more addictive that continual reinforcement or no reinforcement. It’s how people get addicted to gambling. Good luck!
Very good article why narcissist ignore you and give you silent treatment what eventually can brake your heart. I
Very well said !
Sonia, re. giving them an explanation: I don’t think half of these guys deserve one really (and I believe one should only do it if it really is to help YOU get over him, not because you hope to get a reply/jumpstart contact again, or because you load more importance on what he thinks of you than what you think of you) but on the other hand, I’ve never done the whole blocking thing. I’m not sure what the brilliant ladies on here think about blocking, as I’m sure it works successfully for some people, but I find it quite draconian and at times disproportionate to the situation.
If a guy wants to reach out or text/email me, so be it, then I get to decide whether or not to reply based on their past behaviour (and it’s actually been quite a helpful tool to work out what that sort of EU/Narc guy can be like and is capable of – one repeat offender has sent me about 20 texts, some weekly, some daily, some with gaps of six months, over the past year or so – even though our relationship ended in 2011. These texts have been everything from ‘I just found an old receipt in my wallet from a night out we had’ to ‘I had a dream about you, we were having dinner in a 5* hotel!’ to ‘I saw a car like yours’ to ‘I’m going to block your number if you don’t reply’ to (amazing, this one) ‘I get that you don’t want to talk to me but I would appreciate a quick text back just to confirm that you don’t?’ to ‘I heard our song on the radio’ to ‘Hello???’ to ‘???????’ to another ‘I had a dream about you’ – but not once has he sent a text saying ‘hey, I’m sorry I behaved so badly and had an affair while we were together’.
I haven’t ever replied. I feel nothing positive or negative for him all these years on – I don’t feel affected by his texts, or upset by them, or confused by them – at the time we split I was devastated and it took me about two years to get over him, but I did, and moved on. And for reasons known only to himself, despite him knowing we hashed it out at the time and went our separate ways, he keeps on sending reset texts out into the air on the off-chance I’ll suddenly get memory loss and reply. Insane behaviour. Especially considering he’s now married with a toddler…)
I do agree if you’re trying to disengage from someone who won’t leave you alone when you’ve asked them to, who is busting your boundaries by contacting you, if it’s keeping you engaged in their BS, or if they’re being abusive, then blocking is helpful and important.
I also agree that social media is different, unfriending/unfollowing on facebook or twitter is vital in getting over someone, and not looking at their page/their friends’/their girlfriends’ pages goes without saying, because that is extremely damaging to your healing heart and head, and will only set you back. (Also please remember half the guff people put on social media is just ego-stroking themselves, so if you see it you can end up being upset by something that isn’t even accurate! Pointless! I have friends in the unhappiest of marriages, but to look at their facebook you’d think they were married to Man Of The Year and all was perfect. Never use an ex’s social media page as a benchmark to allow yourself to feel ‘less-than’ about yourself. Ever. Looking at their social media is just habitual. Break the habit.
Had the same experience! He had selective memory and never once said I am sorry! But he manage to let me know he was getting married after going silent for a year! Never expected a sorry but did expect that he would find an opportunity to try and hurt me again. Too bad it didn’t work!
My experience is similar too. I have never met anyone who felt so uncomfortable to say sorry even when it is obvious he is wrong.
He will rather cherrypick my words and manipulate and get angry just to avoid saying sorry. And I am constantly put in the position to apologize afterwards. Yuck
Dear Natalie and fellow Baggage Reclaimers – commenters and readers,
Wishing you all a Happy, Peaceful and Fruitful New Year in 2016.
May we all not only reap the wisdom and insight your blog offers, Nat, but then go forward to sow these new seeds practically in our very lives, everyday and every hour.
So much wealthy insight too from all the wonderful comments.
p.s.I want to send a special hello to Mary-Jane through the ether. Mary Jane, we’ve never exchanged comments, BR helped me expunge my demons a couple of years ago now and I’m not here much and comment rarely. But I followed your story with ever increasing awe. Your comments, how you have describe your emotional process, elicit my admiration and total respect for your own strength and self respect. I think you have stayed emotionally available and honest with yourself, you have felt and are feeling your pain, have admirable boundaries. Your comments show that you know your own worth. Life cannot always be joyful, but you are grounded, you are yourself and learning more about yourself with everyday you move forward. Happy New Year!
Lizzp
Lizzp,
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your message. Nat has helped me to reinforce my boundaries. Now, I strongly believe I can smell a rat. I cut off relationships that don’t feel right and I am slow to invest major time without having a good feeling. I go on dates and if I don’t feel right I just kindly turn down any future offers for a date with them.
I appreciate what you said because I knew I made the right choice but it turned my life upside down. I had to navigate ALONE. Being alone is tough and I shared my raw emotions here about it. I would rather be ALONE and maintain my self respect.
Natalie gave me the space I needed to vent and it made all the difference for me. I felt safe to share my REAL feelings here. I worked my way thru some major pain. I look back now and just wonder how I made it. THANK YOU NATALIE!
HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone with love.
MJ
oh wow! it’s not just me then :/ I felt that I was stupid and dumb for believing such lies for 4 years, coming from a fairly religious background I trusted him due to him practicing his religion as well as saying all the things like He will marry me and that everything was ‘ours’. I’m glad I’m over him after reading this, I know that I was played I did a lot for this guy thinking he was my happily ever after but glad I got saved before he messed me around even more! Keep strong ladies I’m the most emotional person in the world and if I can be strong then anybody can! and never stop believing in love because someone out there will give you the world and more 🙂
Really needed to read this – perfect timing. Thank you!
Happy New Year Natalie and BR readers! 🙂
Dear Natalie… thank you so much for your funny, witty, and sincere blog. Your willingness to help and cheer up is incredibly selfless and I truly appreciate your time in extending yourself this way.
Natalie or anyone else who has a good opinion, I need your help–
Having recently “cut off” my physical involvement with a MU, I would like to employ the NC rule, but what do I do if we are both part of the same close-knit friend group?
I can ignore his private messages, texts, etc, but I still want to respond to my friends! Problem is, he is usually in those conversations, so he’ll see that I am responding to the entire group but not to him. Plus, there will also be hang-outs with the entire group. These friends know there is something up between us but none of them know any details other than “there might be something up”….
What to do in this situation? Please help!
It might be hard to hear but I had to disengage from our group for a while. I also didn’t initiate any conversations with him. I invested in other people instead. All the people in our group are still my friends so I didn’t lose any friend except him who was no friend anyway – people moved away and now I hang out with them whenever they are in town. It was hard at first to avoid our group and why shouldn’t he have, huh? Well, because I have to protect myself. And I made time for others or went to group things one of every four times so I could keep a foot in the door. If I knew he wasn’t coming, I’d make an extra effort to go.
Sounds harsh but sometimes this is the cost of a no drama life. And you usually don’t pay it very long – either you will find a new group or he will.
(What’s MU?)
I too am curious as to what “MU” is. If this was a married guy, then it’s a no-brainer. You cut yourself off from him entirely, and if there are people in the group that you like, then you see them separately – invite them to lunch, to go hear music, etc. See them one on one. Don’t discuss him. In any case, if he’s part of these social gatherings, then hanging out with the “group” will either be painful or uncomfortable or both. I like Suki’s solution and think she has the right attitude – part of the consequences of a break-up includes likely moving on from mutual friends. It’s also possible these people already know or will guess the reason why you aren’t hanging out with them as much. If they are truly friends, they will understand, and will figure out ways to socialize with both of you separately.
Oh also – you are in your rights to deny that anything was up with the this guy. If someone asks, say no. Since your friends didn’t know when it was in, they don’t need to know now.
They don’t deserve to know this about your life. And if he’s married – then hell no! Run for the hills, and deny everything. You made a mistake and you don’t want to be the subject of gossip.
If he sees you respond to others and not him – then he will get the message. You have actually broken off haven’t you? If this was a casual deal and you ghosted, stick to it especially if he’s a drama producer.
you don’t owe anyone explanations.
@Suki, Thanks so much for your perspective. I truly appreciate you sharing your experience. By MU I meant “Mr. Unavailable” – he is not at all married! (In fact, the furthest from it that one can possibly be!)
Basically, what happened was I was denying that I wanted more, and pretended I was OK with friends with benefits until one day he particularly acted like an asshole and it really hurt me – and I told him what I actually think. So, he apologized for hurting me, and suggested we should stop seeing each other “in that way” (while throwing in the friend card, of course!). Which is all fine and dandy, but I would prefer not to talk or hear from him at the moment – yet he keeps commenting on my public social network posts….as if we are the best of friends (or more).
@Wiser – thanks, let’s hope so! I really like the people in the friend group, and they really like/respect both of us immensely… and some of them have even hinted that we are great for each other. I guess the best thing is to just carry along as if nothing happened – and never mention it again to anyone. He’s also the type to be really flirty (I am too!) so I feel that if I go to a mutual hangout and we start flirting, I’ll just be back to square one.
@FWBnm; the problem isn’t if ‘we’ start flirting, its if ‘he’ starts flirting with other people. Which he will. I’ve been there. Right now you’re upset, you need to get to a really calm meh place and then you can make different choices about hanging out.
Also, if you two flirt with each other, thats fine, as long as you don’t convert that into going home together.
And remember all the assumptions we tend to work with – you’re a human, you’re allowed to have feelings, you’re allowed to step back from a group without explanation, for your own self-care. You don’t have to be ‘cool girl’ that has sex with a guy, gets treated badly, gets dumped, wakes up, pins a smile on, and starts flirting again.
I don’t have details on your EUM – seems he wanted FWB in a pretty messy situation (with a friend; I mean if he wanted casual he could have got that with someone outside the circle) and then did something a-holish and now decides to back off – it got too real for him and you’re no longer the uncomplicated eff buddy and he’s over it.
Of course, he will ‘like’ your Facebook posts because he wants to quickly dial your relationship into ‘friends’ so he doesn’t feel any dreaded ‘consequences’. The moment you also slip into friends, he’s off the hook, and the problematic behavior will start again. His ‘liking’ your posts is him resetting the relationship. [I don’t know who this fellow is, but if he’s really EUM, he’s going to be back for round 2 and 3; he’ll do hot and cold until your expectations are so managed down that he can get away with anything]. The man has turned you down, don’t let him be back for round 2. Round 2 includes coffee, drinks, normal activities also – avoid being alone with him. I was never alone with the EUM again – once when a group invite started to dwindle into me and him, I wrote a bunch of emails ‘come on guys y’all have to eat!’ – until people joined us. You have to have goals here and stick to them.
So you do need to be a bit frosty to him for a while if for nothing else but to redraw the boundaries. He should know that those are the consequences both for behaving badly and not being your EU guy anymore. And don’t get drawn into what friends think is such a cute couple – they’re always wrong. My friends thought me and the ex-narc were adorable together, they were so invested in us. He was a nightmare in private because he invested so much time in the public persona.
[I know I’m coming on thick with the advice, I cant help it! I just went through this! And he was a flirt! – but really he was a needy jerk. And casual! and he behaved like an a-hole! and i called him out on it! and he came for rounds 2 and 3!!!! NC, snubbed him, avoided him, and man, did he come back even then. I had people speculating about his interest in me 5 months later he was that convincing [pretty sure he had started pursuing at least two other women in that period so this is all a gigantic mind eff – his mind]. He had something to prove with that – like he’s such a great guy? Like we’re friends? I know at least one of our mutual friends also called him out on his a-holish behavior toward me – I didn’t hear this from the friend, he told me. Stay away!!! I will say that the distance from the group allowed me to calm down, to realize I have choices, and thats your power and its a good learning. He knew that I didn’t trust him anymore and that I had totally cut him out. I didn’t trust a word out of his mouth. If we were in a group and I heard him talking about certain topics, I would tune him out, direct my attention to someone else. I protected myself hugely against any information about him, from him etc. Served me well]
@Suki, wow, thanks so much for such a thoughtful and thorough reply. I definitely understand that it’s OK to take a break from the friend group for my protection… but it makes me feel guilty, because I have a feeling another one of my guy friends did the same thing because of *me*. Except, there was literally nothing between us, we only went out on a few platonic dates – I suspected he might have feelings for me (he never stated them outright or anything – while I told my EUM that I really liked him), but I chose to ignore it and hung out with him as a friend – he probably figured out my preference for the EUM… The more I think of it, the more I realize that I EMOTIONALLY treated a person (or two) like my EUM treated me, though not to such an a-holish extent since there was no physical component whatsoever.
Which is why I thought that my EUM and I were so similar, and that we *could* have a FWB situation, until I realized that I cared for him a lot more than he did for me…
He doesn’t just “like” my posts – he comments on them all the time as if we are really good friends. One of my friends says that he is “marking his territory” this way – i.e. when he puts on that facade, other guys might think I am (still?) involved with him in some way… one part of me thinks this might indicate some type of romantic feelings for me, while common sense tells me you are right – it’s just resetting the relationship.
The scary part is, I caught myself thinking that if I were given the option to stay over his place the next time we all hang out, I wouldn’t immediately deny it. I have been CONDITIONED to accept and treasure the 14 hours per two weeks (i.e. a “friend-ish” activity & sleepover) that he gives me at the expense of my self-esteem and emotional health.
Another problem is that although I think he is an asshole, I feel an intellectual attraction to him… we have had some really interesting philosophical discussions after the breaking point. And because I am the type who usually thrives from mental rather than emotional stimulation, I think the only thing preventing me from engaging in these discussions with him is a sense of pride and a teeny bit of resentment, which seems a bit silly after a time…
Dear Natalie and all the BR participants and readers, Happy New Year!
I would like to express my gratitude for all the wisdom, support, tough love, insight, healthy criticism, everything that came my way especially in the first year as I was not only healing but also repairing and rebuilding myself from the ground. No therapist in the world would do what BR did for me. During the first months I read Nat’s articles, I was angry at her!!! Because she showed me honestly but compassionately of who I was and what was wrong with me and my choices. Only now, almost 2 years later, I look back at me and appalled how I had lived all my life prior to now. No boundaries, no self-esteem, wrong man picker, wrong people picker period, people pleaser, Florence, no confidence, seeking for something to feel the void, and on and on, you know the story.
With the help of BR I have grown so much. I can’t believe how much I have changed. I love myself, I have boundaries, I will never put up with a behavior from a man or a friend or a family member that I used to consider normal 2 years prior. There are so many things that have improved over the course of the last 2 years, my epiphany and break up in January 2014.
I have had a spiritual breakthrough and learned through my faith so much as well and am continuing learning.
Thank you Everyone so much! I could list all the names but am afraid to miss some people and/or misspell all the people. I remember all of you and am very grateful to you. Thank you!
It will be a great year. We are older, wiser, more compassionate to ourselves, and happier:)
Sofia
@Sofia,
Much love to you. Your wisdom this past year has remained with me since we first connected. Although my progress is S-L-O-W, you’ve been an instrumental, stabilizing voice that I appreciate more than I can ever explain in a comment box. Thank you Sofia, SO MUCH, for your encouragement and patience, and for sharing your beautiful, authentic self. I know you have helped more than just me. I hope your happiness continues and grows. I believe it will.
And thank you Natalie, of course!
And to MJ, thank you for believing me and understanding my pain. I hope we can catch up. Your support has meant the world to me. Always and forever grateful.
Happy New Year Say Something,
Thanks for your kind notes. Your support has meant the world to me. I came here on a daily basis (my first stop of the day) to get support. BIG hug to you.
So glad to hear from you. This is a place where you can always come (over and over again). Each time you come- you will find love.
Sofia thank you for all the days you also gave me a virtual shoulder. You gave me so much comfort.
MJ
Thank you, Say Something, Mary Jane, and Wiser.
Love and big hugs!
🙂
Sofia, I have truly enjoyed your comments and insights this past year and think you are definitely on the right path. I think of you as a fellow traveler on the spiritual journey and wish you continued peace, inner serenity, and the joy of increasing self-love.
Wishing you all the best in the coming year. I have recieved so much support and help from you Natalie and all the women who comment here. May you all be blessed and peace in all of our hearts. Sincerely Mistea1
When I was a young girl (nine), I was sent away to camp for months. My stepmother hated me (biological mother had disappeared again) and my father didn’t care. I was teased, call retarded, sexually harassed, had eggs thrown on me, and my pants yanked off on the sports field by other older crueler teens.
And then there was Francesca. She was my age and in the same bunk as me. She was chubby, sweet, docile, warm, thoughtful, and smart. And she wanted to be my friend. I had no friends. What did I do? I was weirded out at first. Then I started to warm up a little (as much as I could).
And then we had a field trip.
As we were exploring the nearby city, a counselor notified Francesca that her mom would be picking her up for a special lunch date (my father would not bother to show up to pick me up from camp a few weeks later). As soon as Francesca saw her mom, she was beaming and so was her beautiful mother. She came back to tell us all how yummy and nice it had all been.
Not too long after, Francesca innocently told me of a boy she liked. I lied and told everyone she was a lesbian and that she had came on to me.
As I was going through my grandparents’ office looking at old family photos, I found my camp pictures. There it was. First day of camp photo and with Francesca looking plump and happy and healthy and beautiful. And me somewhat peaceful. And then the last day photos. Francesca looking sleep deprived wary and terrified. And I with a haughty self-defensive sinister grin.
Why do I tell this story?
So, as Nat says and has said time and time again; IT’S NOT ABOUT YOU. But you must use your adult power to stand up to people in the appropriate way and get the hell out.
Do I feel guilt?
Immensely, I think of her often, pray about it, sob about it, and beg for forgiveness from myself, from something. But mind you this is two decades later.
People don’t heal on your time.
Get out.
Shine that light of intuition.
And trust it.
And act.
To self-protection. (and protection for any children that may be involved/animals too).
Oh my goodness!!! This is truly A One Time at Band Camp story (without the poor me element, I hope!). I think it has some wisdom and value to shine the light on how cruel life can be no matter how ‘good’ we are or helpless and that as adults it is our innate right and responsibility to protect ourselves and those more vulnerable. That is the lesson. I hope.
Jennifer.. your ”one time at band camp story” is very relatable! I have a similar story, not as severe but about a girl in my childhood too and have always felt guilty about it. In some ways, I got my karma! And it’s so true, we always want to make it about US because it’s easier to blame ourselves than the other person I guess. Your comments about trusting your intuition resonated with me because I have a bad habit of ”staying too long” and not protecting and trusting myself. Ultimately I end up heartbroken and blaming myself because I saw the signs and didn’t act!
Jen,
Oh, yes, Karma has had her hand in my life too, and I am better for it.
We’re all here to learn lessons so just keep trying and don’t ever give up on yourself. Case in point: Not too long ago I went out with a man *just* like the ex that brought me here. Instead of getting down on myself I broke it off after two dates instead of two months.
Hang in there. It gets better.
My ass clown ended things (only casually) for a second time for a new gf.
I cant stop thinking how he’s cheated on everyone anyway and she may well be next.
But I cant give up hope he may be back again one day as he knows i will have him.
How do I stop feeling like this.
Eventually it will become very clear to you that you are so much better than what he is doing to you. Hang in there. Remain confident and classy. This is his loss. Because you are still in love with him, it’s easy to want him and take him back. But don’t do it. He is a loser. Re-read the above article again. Eventually your love for him will fade which will be a good thing and you will wonder why you ever wanted to get back with him. When your love starts to fade you will see the light.
I keep looking on facebook for signs they may have broken up.
He has foul moods, has been unfaithful in every relationship and if you pull him up on his behavior he acts like the wounded soldier and has you apologizing to him.
I hope his new one sees through it.
So then why do I want him back.
Hi Alison,
This is the first time I post but I couldn’t resist telling you that the reason you want him to come back to you, might be your “ego”. I haven’t told my story yet here in BR although I’ve been around for quite some time. I know in my case that’s what it was, I couldn’t stand the rejection, I couldn’t handle that he thought I wasn’t good enough!
It’s hard to see that at first but what helped me was realizing there is no logic or pattern in the minds of such people, they are thoughtless and unpredictable and we can’t understand how they function. It’s not about you, it’s about his need for attention and all his other issues.
Don’t take it personally and try to keep yourself busy doing things that make you feel good.
Good luck and don’t let him back in, they don’t even understand how much they hurt us because they can’t comprehend that kind of pain.
Long time lurker but first post.I called my ex 32 times on nyd after 6 weeks and just want to shoot myself.I have also just had the most dismal tarot card reading ever.Please help me with this pain
Veronica, forgive yourself for the phone calls. We have all made contact with an ex when we shouldn’t have. You are clearly feeling awful about it but the net result is that you gave your ex an ego stroke. That’s all that happened so please don’t use it as a stick to beat yourself up with. Be kind to yourself. Doing NC for 6 weeks was brilliant but remember that making these kind of mistakes is also part of the healing and learning process. It’s very much two steps forward one step back. Your back on the NC wagon now. Your goal is to do another 6 weeks and then keep going beyond that until the day comes where you don’t even think about contacting him and you have stopped counting. You will get there.
As for the tarot cards, I have been for readings myself and to be honest I don’t know whether people can actually see the future/get messages from loved ones or not. But a friend of mine went along to a tarot reading with me decades ago and came out of her reading in a flood of tears. She had been told that if she married her boyfriend he would be the rock she perished on. My friend ignored that advice, married him and they have two children together and are very happy! So a lot of tarot readings are utter crap! I also had a so called professional and highly recommended tarot reader cold read me to the point where it was embarrassing. Also, remember that even if the reader can get messages anything they see, hear or feel has to be filtered through their own head first before you get the message. It is only is their interpretation of what they think they hear, see or feel. What the message (if there was any in the first place) actually was or was supposed to mean may have got lost in translation. Your in a vulnerable place at the moment and looking for guidance so a bad tarot reading will be difficult to deal with emotionally. Try not to judge the accuracy of what were you were told at the moment because you may not be able to be objective. Put it away and when your feeling stronger look at it again with fresh eyes and from a place of strength not hurt.
I know it stings like a bitch but it will get easier.
Veronica
Take a step back and see how you are actively seeking disappointment and rejection. Don’t do that! Just don’t do it. You’re being cruel and unfair to yourself at a time when you need to protect yourself.
Know that silence is far stronger than words. Stop throwing words at him — they’re harming your self respect and expressing desperation. By giving him words he can choose to ignore or mock, you are giving him power — like giving him sticks he can beat you with. Avoid this by staying NC. Step away from the crazy. Be strong enough to stay NC for three months at least, and you will begin to feel much better and much more on top of your emotions.
I wouldn’t recommend believing the Tarot reading you’ve had — remember you’re in a stressful downward emotional turmoil right now, and I bet a lot of negative energy has been reflected in the cards as a consequence. When you’ve started healing and are feeling calm, relaxed, balanced and well, perhaps you should try another reading and see if it makes a difference.
“Take a step back and see how you are actively seeking disappointment and rejection. Don’t do that! Just don’t do it. You’re being cruel and unfair to yourself at a time when you need to protect yourself.
Know that silence is far stronger than words. Stop throwing words at him — they’re harming your self respect and expressing desperation. By giving him words he can choose to ignore or mock, you are giving him power — like giving him sticks he can beat you with.”
Very helpful insight!
Veronica,
I don’t know you, but if I could scoop you up in my arms and hug that worthwhile brilliant soul of yours I would. And I would not let go until you knew, saw, and, stood your worth.
I have been there.
I once called an ex 100 or so times I think. I have tried to suicide many many times. The first time when I was twelve (I am 31 now). My mother didn’t live to see 35 (self-inflicted bullet to the brain).
You can make it. You can do this. You have worth. I know this because you are honest enough to bare your soul to the world here and ask for help. If I could take some of that pain, I would. I don’t wish any human to suffer what I went through or lose themselves the way my mother lost herself.
Hang in there. It does get better. And you are strong enough to pull through and do the right thing for yourself by getting help and getting out and away from toxic situations.
I am rooting for you. I am feeling for you. You got this. Get away from what you know is unhealthy, get to know you, heal you, and love you. You will get there just do not give up your God given right to live with integrity. The fortitude to plow on healthily is already within you. Find it, give it love and light and let is shine instead of living in the drudgery and shadows of mean, lost souls.
You deserve more than this pain. You deserve love and to be happy and loved. And you will find that. Keep going in the right direction.
All your negative feelings are normal, just plow through them to the other side without harming your self or others and replace them with positive choices.
You’ll get there.
You’re already on your way.
Much Love,
Jennifer Xx
Elle and Griselda I cannot thankyou both enough for taking the time to reply.I was just about to go to bed as I just want to escape these horrible thoughts.I am so glad I checked in here first as you have both given me the encouragement to see it for what is and go easy on myself,Thank you both so much
Veronica, I am a big believer in tarot cards so I understand how you feel. I once had a tarot reader tell me that their readings are based on the trajectory you are on at the time. This really helped me because it showed me that I had control and if I didn’t want the negative thing they mentioned to happen I had all the power to change my thoughts and actions to creative the life I wanted. You do to. Going back NC and feeling empowered in doing so is one step to changing your path and feeling powerful. One mistake doesn’t make you a failure. Quitting does. Get back to NC and let this feeling you have now be enough to not let you contact him again. Good luck.
Hey Veronica, don’t beat yourself up. I’m sure most of the ladies on here, including myself have contacted their ex’s when we shouldn’t. I’ve been beating myself up for months for loss of dignity and so on…it’s a pointless process because you can’t change it. Be kind to yourself. As for the readings, although entertaining…shouldn’t be taken seriously. I had a psychic tell me my ex was “totally gone and went back to something in his past”. So far the “gone” part is true but what ex isn’t? I really think she got sick of me asking about him and just told me that to shut me up! I even went to a different one (don’t judge me lol) and she told me he would call me…so, don’t put too much thought into it. Very entertaining but not reliable.
Thank you all so much.You are so strong.I was in a very dark place yesterday and your very kind comments have helped me enormously.I will certainly get back on the NC horse and continue to use this amazing site for support as it has helped so much already.Happy new year to all of you
Hi Nat. I read your blogs and posts religiously and it all makes sense but I am struggling to let go. I met a guy overseas and we had a deep connection however due to distances, timing (he was just out of a long term relationship) and the fact he met someone else – things did not progress for us. I was devastated and he was very apologetic as he never intended things to be this way or hurt me. We remained friends until I told him I could no longer pretend to be happy. He respected my wishes to not be in contact but said he would always be my friend and will be there for me when I am ready to reconnect. We were very close, my best friend. I contacted him recently (3 weeks later) and he replied. But shortly afterwards, I contacted him again and asked to call him but he has not replied. I truly want to be friends and I am worried that my to-ing/fro-ing with contact/no contact is upsetting and hurting him. I care for him very much. I feel like I have been inconsiderate of what he might be feeling too. I know it pained him to break my heart, I do wish him the best. Can you give me some insights on whether you think I have hurt him to the point of him not being able to speak with me again? And some advice on how to let go. Thank you
Hi Tina,
Ask yourself if he was REALLY your best friend. You don’t mention how long you knew this person or how many in-person get togethers/dates you actually had.
Reality Check.
I am writing from the heart, from MY point of view. You are NOT upsetting or hurting him. That is projection. YOU are hurt and upset. You say ‘I know it pained him to break my heart’ but that’s also projection. Sure, maybe he felt bad, as in ‘I feel bad that I forgot to turn the lights off when I left the house’ or ‘I’m sorry I drank all the coffee and didn’t leave any for you.’ Not feeling bad anymore though.
So now you’re trying to get back in contact. Tina, do you REALLY want to know about his new relationship? THAT’S where his thoughts are invested. He gave you his sweet, parting, friendly words and exited in good graces.
YOU felt a deep connection. You thought he must have too. Sometimes what you think and believe is not what is really true. I learned the hard way. Even when all evidence you have supports your belief, sometimes evidence is missing. Some people are great at SEEMING to be who they aren’t. They say the right things. They treat you well. They share your values. They make plans with you. They share intimate details, hopes, dreams, fears. They share their bed with you. You exchange calls and texts on a regular basis. You might spend the most wonderful time together. BUT… what you perceive as a deep connection is just a N I C E moment in time to them.
Accepting this truth hurts like hell. If he felt a super great deep connection, he’d be seeing if there might be some way for you to be together. He’d be contacting you. He’d NOT be telling you that he met someone else. HE IS NOT HURTING. Please believe that. I’m sorry if I sound harsh, but I too held wrong beliefs about someone. 100% wrong. No more contacting him. His silence speaks for itself. Again, I am sorry for being so direct, but IMO, he is done and feeling fine.
Say something, I hope this doesn’t come across as patronizing, because that’s not my intention at all, but it’s obvious from this comment that you have made huge progress and come a long way. I know we haven’t interacted much here, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents and say I’m proud of you! Wishing you a wonderful 2016!
Hi Say Something, thank you very much for your comments and advice. It was really a reality check for me and I am glad I posted my situation here. With that in mind though, it still does not wipe away the tears, the pain or the memories. To answer your question – we have met in person twice only, we spoke on the phone a handful of times, but we messaged each other everyday for a period of two years. I do believe you when you say that if it was a deep connection for him too, he would move probably have heaven and earth to be with me. But he did not, and he probably had his reasons. To me, the biggest pain is making a conscious decision to walk away from the friendship that had developed during this time. I don’t know what to do to ease or move on quicker. I just hope that I will be strong enough to overcome this and not allow it to destroy me even more.
Hi Tina,
Of course you will have all those feelings. I am still processing almost 20 months later and have sadness every single day. I also learned via BR that texting is ‘lazy communication’ and I experienced much of that too. We DID see each other every week, but the days in between were multiple texts every single day and usually one phone call a week. And one day he was just done. I thought like you that maybe I’d scared him off, but that was wrong. I’ll never know and it will gnaw at me forever. But I know that it is ME hurting, NOT HIM. I’M THE ONE with the deep authentic feelings, NOT HIM. I’m the one who was willing to do anything- move, talk more, whatever it took. ANYTHING. He offered NOTHING except silence. So I get it. And it sucks. Natalie has three great books. Treat yourself and buy them all.
Hi Tina,
I was in a long distance as well. We met on vacation and stayed together for two years but in the end I realized that I put in most of the work. I was always planing the next time we would see each other and Skype time.
Of course it’s painful wondering who he is with. The person who claimed to care and love you so much. My ex even named our future potential children. In the end they are not loyal to us. Even if he claims he wants to be friends. They really have moved on.
Be loyal to yourself and try not to think about him with another woman.
It’s been 3months and everyday I tell myself time will heal my heart and I will miss what I thought we had with each passing day less and less.
Be kind to yourself!
I had to visit this site for inspiration as today is not a good day for me. I had to read several articles AGAIN just to remind myself why I feel this way and what I need to be doing. I was at the store earlier and had terrible anxiety because I’m always afraid of seeing my ex there. I can’t even go grocery shopping in peace without the possibility of seeing him..and possibly his new gf or even his friends. Besides going to work, home has been my safe haven (sadly) where I don’t have to worry about being reminded of him. I hate seeing couples out in public and wondering why my relationship(s) crumbled or in this case why he abandoned me…of course I know nothing about these couples, if they’re happy, miserable whatever but it doesn’t matter, I still wonder. My worst fear is him being happy with this new girl and wondering why he wasn’t with me.
It’s been months post breakup and it still seems like there’s no end in sight for my pain. I’ve been stuck in this in between, feeling weird stage, can’t really explain it. Just when I think I’m over him, something happens causing me to relapse. The sad thing is it’s ALL me because he’s gone! It’s like I’m mourning a stranger or non existent person. I went on a date recently for New Years, not because I’m ready to date again but because I didn’t want to be alone…terrible I know. I’ve been talking to a few guys and it’s nice but once they want to meet up and get to know me, I find myself turning them down because I don’t want to start anew with someone else. I guess you could say I’m a bit jaded.
Fear and panic have now set in because I’m sure we’ll never speak again, which isn’t so much a bad thing but I’ll never know the whys or how’s of what actually happened…or even just have a normal conversation. I can’t help but wonder why he has never once tried to contact me even to say hello, sorry for what happened, kiss my ass, nothing… Although he’s moved on with someone new (the thought alone kills me slowly) I’ll never understand why we couldn’t be civil at least. Instead, he chooses to treat me and our relationship like it never existed and I meant NOTHING. How do they do it… I would love to turn my feelings on and off like that. I could’ve put myself out of misery a long time ago! Sometimes I feel like I can’t even take it anymore it hurts so bad. Why would someone work so hard for something then walk away (forever!) They treat you as if you’re a disease or they found out something horrible about you. Of course we know this isn’t the case but that’s how it feels. I often wonder what’s been going on in his head, if anything. Does he feel guilt, shame, regret, or the opposite.
I feel pathetic that I’m still stuck in the past, seeking some sort of validation from him, anything…and he’s long gone. I know some would ask why I would want to talk to someone who dumped me, said mean things and treated me like shit (post breakup) I wish I had an answer…. It’s hard to accept the fact that this is the same person who treated me like a queen before. Maybe I’m just clinging on to the great memories of him. This may sound odd but I struggle with whether he really was an AC…or a normal guy that had a change of heart. Like one of Nats articles says they’re not an AC just because they want to break up, it’s their actions in doing so and after (sorry if i misquoted that) I think he’s an AC based on how he ended it, cowardy and cruel in my opinion.
Its too bad I can’t speak with his ex’s just to see if he did things like this to them…or even a friend of his to confirm he’s an AC. Sounds ridiculous but it would make me feel better, like I’m not the only one that was subjected to his AC shady behavior. I read comments on here all the time where the ex’s are still contacting them (not that I’m envious) but it feels strange to have an ex that wants nothing to do with me. We had a very loving relationship…I thought. With the exception of a few not so serious dating partners, I’ve always heard from my ex’s in one way or another so this is new for me and it’s an awful and empty feeling. Besides the day he dumped me and a nice, closure type letter…I have not contacted him so he has no reason to treat me like this. It sucks to know I’ve done all I can to make amends and be civil and it’s still not good enough. Hopefully one day (soon) I’ll look back on this and understand it.
My apologies for the long ”woe is me” post, just don’t know how to deal anymore. I hope there’s some sort of karma out there for him or something better comes along for me. Any advice from anyone stuck in something like this would be great, thank you 🙂
Hello Jen
Your post particularly resonated with me so I felt compelled to respond to you.
The last month hasn’t been good for me, 10 months after my break up with the EUMM I found the Christmas and NY period extremely difficult. Ive tried to stick to NC over the last 6 months but I’ve broken it a few times, more recently on NY day when I reached out to him. Ironically I got the same stuff back……he just tells me how much he misses me (same old same old) but of course nothing has changed because he never does anything about it so I instantly regretted this contact. He didn’t even ask how I was or what I was doing, I know nothing about him either, I don’t know if he went back to his wife even. He abandoned me so why should I care but I do.
I still suffer terrible anxiety, anxiety because I’m still plagued with memories of his lies and betrayal and crippling loneliness at times. I too will never know the truth about what happened, we had a life, a home together and it was ripped away from me. He too treated me like a queen and I thought we had a future, we planned it.
I wanted to start 2016 with a fresh start, leave last year behind me and start as I mean to go on but I’m scared I’ll never recover from this. It doesn’t help I know that I google his family for a sign of what he’s up to, I’m aware this is setting me back.
My life, although was a total nightmare most of the time I was with him, still has a void in it which I haven’t been able to fill and I get anxious I never will and I’ll be defined by this bad man. Memories are everywhere, I too feel so sad when I see couples and question why he could have walked away from what we had. I question him whether what we had was real given his lies and he always maintains it was….. but then he’s not with me is he so how can that be? and it still hurts.
I’m trying SO damn hard to be the best version of me and to be better than this but more than anything I want to be happy……not just occasionally as I seem to have been but most of the time if that’s possible. I too am stuck in this strange phase.
“It’s been months post breakup and it still seems like there’s no end in sight for my pain. I’ve been stuck in this in between, feeling weird stage, can’t really explain it. Just when I think I’m over him, something happens causing me to relapse. The sad thing is it’s ALL me because he’s gone! It’s like I’m mourning a stranger or non existent person”……….I couldn’t have put it better myself!
I’m struggling with sleeping again and he’s still at the forefront of my mind which drives me mad and I can’t seem to shake it. I’m now 44 and painfully aware I’ve already wasted too much of my life on this guy and sometimes (like more recently) I feel as if I’ve made no progress at all 🙁
I’m sorry I can’t offer you advice, I’m still struggling to make sense of it all. I can’t talk to any of my friends or family about this because after all this time they expect me to be over him but I’m stuck and praying for a miracle……something better comes along for me too!
Nicki, I forgot to add a few things sorry…I’m not good at offering advice either because I can’t even take my own. However, what I can tell you is to stop googling him or his family trying to see what they’re up to. I did this too in the beginning and although I never found anything bad (thank goodness) I stopped because it was self torture. Besides that, I felt like it was none of my business anymore..sadly. Plus if you did find something, what would you do about it besides get upset which you don’t need at this point.
Recently I thought of looking at his social media accounts and then thought of how I might react if I saw something. First I’d probably get angry or cry, then be tempted to text him and that would be awkward since we haven’t spoken in months. So please don’t do that to yourself. I’ve always been told ”if you’re looking for something you will find it”. I figure if he’s not in my life anymore..a stranger basically, then whats the point of seeing what he’s up to. Not to sound like a creeper but I’ve even looked up old flings out of curiousity and seen things I don’t like and it doesn’t matter how long it’s been, it still hurts….Hope that helps, even a little.
Hi Nicki,
You are in good, kind company…..
First, struggling after a loss of an important relationship (and dreams of the future) is completely normal. Patience, self compassion, and self care are important to routinely practice, but more so during this period of time. Repeatedly remind yourself of these! Try not to be mean to yourself with “should be” and “shouldn’t be”. We all slip up.
Second, I feel when we are stuck in something, there is an underlying cause….something deeper. In no way to minimize how distressing feeling stuck can be, we can look at this objectively as more lessons need to be learned from this difficult period. For instance, in my past I have sought out people and a professional that were respectful of the humanness of this feeling (stuck) and were willing to help me piece apart and explore this feeling more.
Finally, let me return to self care- Focus on: are you getting the right amount of vitamins and minerals from your diet (check: foods that are good for anxiety, etc…)? Are you getting routine exercise? Sleep? What things help you cope with difficult feelings? Sometimes our “go to” coping skills are not effective for all situations and we need to expand our list. Further (as you work towards the best version of you), what makes you, you? What things invigorate you (bring about happiness)? How can you shape your best future? Where do you see yourself/what do you desire in 1 year? 5 years? (temporarily remove from this equation being involved in a romantic relationship and focus on yourself for these questions). Stand with yourself and focus on YOU!
Remember, you are not alone in trying to work through a painful period.
Excellent post, Natalie. If a woman reads and heeds this advice, especially while young, she can save herself a boatload of unnecessary people pleasing and hurt. Men like you have described rarely change, and they therefore deserve to be lonely, if women would just let them be. Thanks again.
Nicki, thank you for responding and sorry to hear you’re struggling as well. I know what you mean about the friends and family thing. I can’t talk to them anymore either because they’ve exhausted their advice and feel like I should be over this by now. I’ve noticed anytime I bring it up, even in a joking manner, they politely change the subject..I get it. Plus I haven’t spoken with him since the breakup so there’s nothing new to report, it’s the same old story. There’s only so much rehashing you can do about a situation and because of this, I just think about it all the time now.
I had an emotional moment last night and my friend said she was worried about me that I wasn’t over it yet. I know she means well but it made me feel bad. I’m an emotional and somewhat nervous/anxious person to begin with so this situation has really brought that out. At the same time, there was a lot of ”future faking” going on in my case so that’s made it harder for me to move on… not to mention the loss of dignity I felt, abandonment and refusal to discuss things with me. I know the reasons why I’m having a hard time moving on but ”truly” accepting those harsh facts is another thing.
The holidays were hard for me too, wondering what he was doing with her or in general ugh, so glad that’s over. Like you, I’m okay most days now but I’ll have triggers or reminders that set me back…memories, seeing a truck like his and so on. I even feel a constant sadness that I can’t seem to shake, due to the abandonment and him not being in my life at all. I don’t even feel like the same person anymore at times. I’ll even sit here sometimes and think about something he said or did and obsess about it for a while…and then I’m fine again. Even when I’m busy, I’m thinking about him.
For the most part, I’ve accepted that we’re no longer a couple but still having trouble accepting how he ended things with me, if that makes any sense. I even talk to other guys but still find myself thinking of him all the time. I’ve truly reached the point where it’s pathetic because he is Gone. I need to file this away in the ”bad experience” folder and move on. I hope you can do the same. We need to accept that it’s just taking more time for us to get over things than others and that is ok.
Some people will use brainwashing techniques to keep you from recognizing the reality of the situation. They want you out of your reality and into their twisted world so they can continue to degrade and humiliate you so they can (establish) maintain control.
http://verbalabusejournals.com/about-abuse/brainwashing-and-domestic-abuse/how-to-control-your-mind-brainwashing/
“How can they keep doing what they know will hurt us ”
“How can I keep doing what I know will hurt me”
I’ve never commented on anything before so please excuse me if this doesn’t make sense, but none of it does! I have been reading these post for nearly 3 years so I knew I was in trouble from the start! Brief circa : aged 52, married 27 years , lovely husband, house, kids job, car, confident ect ect ect husband had a one night stand 13 years ago, I found out straight away, she left a message on the house phone! He admitted it, was sorry,we had a bad time but we worked through it. I had one intimate partner before marriage and was very naive and moral! Oh how the mighty have fallen! 3 years ago I got attention at a work party from a younger colleague (27 is turns out!) ego boost or what. He was just married with a child and been in that relationship 10 years. I had the limmerence, the affair fog , everything that has been said on these posts , he future faked, I told him I had nothing to offer him. When he treated me bad I told him he didn’t deserve me! He hurt me , I retaliated and hurt him. He said he couldn’t keep doin this it was wrong, I agreed but said I was selfish and wanted it all! 3 months in he left his wife! He told her he didn’t love her! This is when I told him I could not offer him anything. We called it a day but agreed to a work night out as friends, he got very drunk and was horrible and left with another colleague and sleep with her ! This was the point I should have read the advice here and gone NC. I didn’t, He went back to his wife and confessed to the one night stand. the last 3 years have been a nightmare rollercoster which I blame myself for being weak and selfish and him for being weak and selfish! I do all the things of someone EU and I think a narcisssis but I blame him! He fits the profile of the men mentioned here, no dates, lazy communication, re-set button, only catch up for sex ect ect , I try to get nights out and more than sex but it never happens. I go NC and give in, he’s says it has to stop he feels bad and should put his effort into his marriage but still meets up and makes me feel that l control this, (I am a control freak) I know I don’t want him, the sex is awesome, but that’s it, and I have great sex with my husband. I could go on and on but you have all been there and done that I don’t need to tell you about the self loathing, lack of pride, embarrassment by my actions …… I don’t don’t what I want to acheive by posting this, I know what’s right and wrong, I know the horrific consequences, I know everyone is worth better than this situation so WTF is wrong with me that I say to myself “I can’t help myself! ” pathetic , no one can judge me any worse that I do myself so feel free to tell it like it is and I only hope that by reaching out this way I can end this, regain my self esteam and stop letting it be the focus of all my attention.
I’ve just put an end to a year long relationship with an EUM. Of course, like many of us I’m sure, when I first read Natalie’s work I did’nt want to believe my guy was an Ass Clown. But I think I am now starting to face the facts.
I’m embarassed to say that it took a year of him telling me he was’nt ready for a relationship for me to get the picture. A year in which he ended things between us 5 times – each time for me to cry my eyes out, each time for him to come back only a couple of weeks later with proclamations of love (but never the offer of a relationship – the ‘label’ made him feel uncomfortable) and each time for me to accept him back with open arms. Because when it was good it was f***ing incredible. To be told I was loved daily, that I was beautiful, sexy, perfect. To have someone love all of my imperfections. To have someone tell me all of tgings I’ve ever longed and wanted to hear.
But when, after a particularly difficult break up in which he gave me the silent treatment for 3 months, he came back into my life to tell me he was going back to his ex ( for the sake of their children) something clicked in me. No man who loved me as much as he proclaimed to would deny me a relationship. He certainly wouldnt get in touch out of the blue mobths later just to let me know he and his ex are giving it another go. The right man would and should jump through hoops for me.
I realise now that I have been as much at fault. Instead of closing the door on his sorry ass and locking it behind him I let him back in – time after time. And all because I didnt want him to think bad of me.
In an ironic twist just before Christmas my EUM told me he was finally ready for a relationship with me (he and his ex never got back together because SHE put the stoppers on that plan). Somehow, from somewhere I found the strength to say no. Here he was, saying the words I’d longed all yesf to hear, and I said no. There has been too much hurt. My gut also tells me he knew I was slipping away and only offered a relationship as a last sitch attempt to keep me hanging on. He’ll never be ready, and he’s missed out on the best thing he ever (could have) had.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m terrified that no one will ever lovr me as intensley as he did. But was it ever really love? It certainly was’ny a healthy kind of love.
Ladies, trust me when I say you will get to a point where enough is enough. You may have gone past that point weeks, months or years ago and are desperately clinging on because one day he MIGHT change his mind. Don’t wait a second longer. You are causing yourself more hurt by waiting than he will ever cause you.
You deserve the best. We deserve the best, and trust me – your EUM does’nt rven vome close.
Love and peace
I am really glad I have found this site. There have been so many stories I have read on here that sound exactly like the one I went through with my ex. I would like to share my story, but am not really sure where to begin. And I have shared my story on other similar sites and have gotten no response, so I am a little gunshy about opening up and sharing again. But everyone here seems like they are really open and caring and supportive of others sharing their stories, so I would like to share mine.
Hi New here 2016
I’m in the same situation as you and I realised by posting here that it was just good for me to put my nightmare down in writing. I only posted a few days ago and reading it back has shown me the reality of the situation. It is wrong on so many levels, HE Hasn’t caused this! I have, my ego, my pride, my making excuses, excuses, excuses, my projecting, my lack of self esteem, my over thinking, my selfishnes, my thinking I’m special. My fantasy world! I lost myself and for what? He would say he loved me to bits, he adored me, he’d do anything for me, but never followed this up with actions except when he wanted an ego stroke and sex. I thought I was a giving considerate person, well my actions show a dark side. If I’m going to try to explain why I’ve changed I could say, age, midlife crisis, empty nest, close family deaths, new stressful job, but are these just more excuses??? I do know it stops right here, right now! No more excuses and justifying . It has turned into a game where no one wins (thanks for that post too natalie, again spot on, so insightful) I invested so much I had to win or how could I justify the things I had done? I am mortified by my behaviour, I have been NC for a week, the breaking point , texting all day, we leave work at the same time but he couldn’t make the effort to hang about to see me for 5 mins, he had a hair appointment! Really? So I called him out and he said I’ve said this once! He called me and asked what time I was finishing next day he would see what he could do if I was lucky ! Seriously he thinks he’s funny when he says this, I tell him I’m not happy with him and he not in my good books , he says nothing new he’s not in anybody’s, so for once I said he needed to look at himself. I knew he would give me the silent treatment after this. He would expect me to tx the following day to see if we were meeting up. NO MORE ! I will not be that woman again,
No fool like an old fool. I have to now try to move on and live with my guilt and shame and feel blessed that no one found out and no families ruined ! I just want to go to sleep and wake up and it all have gone away. But I will beat myself up, obsesses about woulda coulda shouda and stay strong when he does eventually get over his man child sulk and come fishing. I WILL NOT REPLY, I will not let myself down again, I will not disappoint myself again, I will not blow smoke up his Ass for attention, I will not explain why I have change my habits of the last 3 years, I will accept its ME Not him, but he played the game as well. I am not that special, HE is not that special . To err is human is the only solace I can take at this moment.
GAME OVER !
Hello, wanted to share something with you all spoken at my yoga class yesterday evening (highly recommend yoga for practicing self-love). I was fearful I might never get over my past but I think I might actually be turning a corner now, I’m feeling much stronger and happier and this resonated with me so hope it might help some of you too……..stay strong, you are worth so much more then them x
Your beliefs become your thoughts
Your thoughts become your words
Your words become your actions
Your actions become your habits
Your habits become your values
Your values become your destiny
– Gandhi
So mine is famous and went off To travel and cheated on me with a girl half his age.
I called him out and told her he had been with me for almost a year.
We’ve had fights in the past, and he always comes back. It’s been a month and I’ve been in NC. do you think he will come back?
What’s horrible is being with an EUM who tells you he loves you and you’re the one. It really screws with your head.
To Natalie and Every Lovely Lady Who Has Commented On This Blog Page –
First off, I got about half way into this particular blog and had to stop for a moment to prevent myself from utterly sobbing on top of the tears that were already falling down my face. The remarkable thing about this, though, was that these were not tears of sadness, they were tears of relief.
As an ESFJ-type personality through and through, you can only imagine the kind of compassion, patience, and overall kindness and love I put into any kind of relationship, but romantic ones even more so. My Mr. Unavailable came with plus-sized baggage (mentally AND physically…not even kidding) that contained an ADD diagnosis, anger issues so extreme that 3 therapists came to the conclusion that he was basically beyond help (*very convinced there should have been an Intermittent Explosive Disorder diagnosis in there had those people seen the kinds of things I saw, too… just sayin’.), struggles with introversion and sensitivity (*very convinced that this ‘excuse’ he still gives to this day is absolutely him trying to cover up the fact that he’s a covert narcissist, whether he realizes it or not) a lonely, violent childhood, struggles with gender identity [thanks to his father who divorced his ADD-ridden mother essentially to ‘become a woman’], and a whole lot more, with all that stuff just being a small handful of pieces of the enigma that is my Mr. Unavailable.
I should note something important here before the ‘WHY DIDN’T YOU RUN AWAY SCREAMING BEFORE THAT WHOLE MESS EVEN STARTED?’ comments happen: I knew virtually NONE of that information when I first started going out with him. I can guarantee you that had I actually known about ALL his, as he calls them, ‘quirks’, I WOULD have run away screaming.
Seemingly much like a lot of you (including Natalie, as we know), I too went through a very unfulfilling long-term relationship with Mr. Unavailable, as you can probably tell by my initial pseudo-description of him. Thankfully, I broke it off a bit after reaching the ‘two-year mark’ of the relationship after receiving what I can only describe as life-changing visions sent by God (which I have nicknamed ‘The 56-Hour Nightmare’, and yes, I do have plans to write about this event and possibly even make it into a publishable book) after praying for clarity, finally declaring that I had had enough of essentially destroying myself, mentally and physically, for a guy who, despite what he said, really didn’t care about anyone except himself. I have tried, and still try, to tell myself that I’m okay now and he doesn’t affect me anymore, especially since I physically moved myself away from him, and my own mother keeps telling me that I need to stop ‘harboring resentment and anger’ by this point, or that ‘I need to forgive him’, but even as the 1 year ‘anniversary’ of me breaking up with him approaches me steadily, I’m still practically just as emotionally torn up about it as I was back then. Until today, that is.
One of the things that had bothered me the most was that even though people sympathized, empathized, etc. with me about my situation, I still felt like people either didn’t truly understand the depth of my plight (particularly friends I still talk to who are also friends with him and [imo] most likely still don’t know the REAL whole story), or they think that ‘i should have known better way before I finally actually knew better’/ ‘you technically caused the problem yourself because you chose to stay with him so a lot of it is your fault rather than his’ (lol mom), and I had no one to REALLY relate to with this kind of scenario, so it felt like an ongoing war with myself. Not necessarily a ‘omg I shouldn’t have dumped him’ kind of struggle (NOOOO way), but more of a ‘why DIDN’T I dump him way sooner than I did?’ kind of issue. I don’t know if any of you struggled with guys who had mental issues of any kind in the past, but I am still very convinced that I had a hard time letting myself be frustrated/angry with things that he did/said because I felt like I would be blaming him for things he most likely couldn’t help, or worse, feel like a hypocrite since I noticed a lot of similar behavior patterns between him and myself when it came to a lot of [genuinely] ‘smaller’ issues, which only made things more complicated for me emotionally. What made this even more interesting, and almost worse, was that I ended up being professionally diagnosed with ADD about 6 months after I dumped his butt, only depleting my self-esteem further since I started making the mistake of comparing my much smaller ‘flaws’ caused by ADD and other non-ADD related ‘disabilities’ with his significantly larger, and most likely forever incurable [mostly due to his own stubbornness and refusal to change his attitude] problems.
Natalie, this blog entry, and you beautiful, brave, and clever ladies have perfectly summarized a lot of the things I was going through, made me feel so much better about it all, and helped me realize that I’m truly not alone in those struggles. After I initially dumped Mr. Unavailable, I promised myself that after years of neglecting my physical and mental health in order to help someone else’s (especially since that aspect of my life actually started even BEFORE the reign of Mr. Unavailable), I would start making a complete 360 degree turn-around to be healthier, to love myself again, and not stop until I have a firm understanding of my strengths and weaknesses in life, and aspects I can control or not control. I signed myself up for a fitness program that helped me re-shape my diet and exercise regimes back to one that would help rather than hurt my weight (from that point in time until now, I’ve lost and kept off almost 50 pounds! Woooo!), I make myself learn at least one new thing a day and made an effort to start reading books again instead of letting my brain rot in front of a TV screen 24/7, I started getting allergy shots in hopes of someday not being able to use ‘bad allergies’ as an excuse of why I can’t leave my apartment and improving my health overall, and many other really good things. My next step is, and NEEDS to be, finally healing my broken heart for good, and I can tell that keeping up with Baggage Reclaim will be one of many tools I will use to help myself in this process. As I approach my 24th birthday, I now look forward to a year of even more positive changes as compared to my lonely, downer 23rd birthday. Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for helping me find even more clarity than I’ve already found!
Love and virtual hugs to everyone! <3
Hi 🙂 like a lot of you I am new here too. Not new to the game though. I enjoy reading all the comments from similar people and see, they are exactly like my situation, when it all comes down to it.
Hopefully by posting someone will
Also see similarities as well…
I met a man ten years older than me through an on line game. My intention was the game as I have never done anything else but this. He was a random partner and we started to slowly communicate. Within a day or two he started with comments that I was not used to..basically we were starting to get to know each other but he was way ahead of me with his comments. Telling me he loved me and asking if j wanted a relationship and all the things he promised…marriage, a ring, children…
Wow..I didn’t even know this existed and couldn’t believe it but I eventually figured it must be true if he is pursuing me so strongly. He did the typical love bombing, at the time I knew nothing about.
I knew he was pushing things and even hesitated answering anything he suggested. After a week maybe two, he wanted to visit me…he needs to come by plane, he’s from another country. First he had a six month tour in Iraq then he’d visit. We kept communication going Very strong during this time. I finally agreed for him to visit..what is the harm? He’d been pursuing me for approx 7 months very persistently anyway. My marriage had been very rocky and I had nothing to lose in that sense and was doing nothing wrong. He was so nice and I admitted was falling for him.
He visited and we became very committed. Over the course of three years we continued. Visits were made each few months, daily texting, emails and phone calls too. I thought he was so serious. He put me
On such a high pedestal and seemed
To remain true to his promises.
At the beginning before meeting one another, somehow I came across a site he’d been on, (down the road there were many many more I’d found) with a different name, but having same conversations with other women. Promising them visits after his tour, promises of marriage and children and how they were the woman of his dreams…same things he’d says to me. I confronted hkm immediately and he made it sound like a very innocent thing, and stupid stupid me, believed it. Something like his account had been hacked and someone was posing as him, a really really dumb story. I figured it must be the truth we communicate so
Often and I know where he is at all times.
To speed things up, I’d discovered situations like this quite a few times
During the three years. Each time not so forgiving as the last. Communication was slowing down eventually at the end, the praising and intense love bombing was slowing down and even putting off visits.
At the end of the the three years with so much more in between that is pretty much the same crap, he became unapproachable for a few days…I was starting to become nervous thinking something had happened. Finally he wrote me back telling me that “he was very sorry and he can’t live a double life any longer. He met someone thirty years younger and he was visiting her country for “work” and they were getting married and we had to end things. He was an unemployed man, and always “online”
Looking for work and finishing up a masters degree. He’d get “jobs” pretty much anywhere through the world if he found the right one, throigh agencies. They were always very temporary lasting a week
Or two at the most. He claimed that he was affiliated with very hush hush government projects and had to be very selected when it came
To work.
Anyway, They did marry about a year and a half later…but during that time when he returned to his home country, he had told me he changed his mind and was not marrying her and wanted to
Pursue things with me, so I did.
What happened finally after he and I continuing just as we had been, was a repeat of his silence, to turn around and tell me they set a date. He was marrying her and moving to her country.
How could he tell me horrible things about her, during that year and a half..he hated her, she was disgusting and who’d marry someone like this, never wants to see her again and I was the love of his life!
They’ve been now married a year and a half. He has written me a handful
Of times telling me how he is so sorry and dislikes what he’s done and not happy and wants to be with me…only to write me the very next day and apologiZe for writing me and confessing his feelings and he can’t betray his wife but we can stay in contact. This has happened about five times since he married with the last one bejng “he does love her but just can’t keep me out of his thoughts and needs to see me”.
Thankfully I’m not a stupid woman and have done so much reading and gotten informed to see this man is very disturbed.he has had a horrible
Upbringing..mother sexually abused him many times, she committed suicide and be discovered her and he was shifted around his entire life from abusive family member to orphanages.
He gets you with his words, he writes
Beautifully so when he approaches me I believed his bull.
After contacting me confessing his undying love for me, and wanting to see me, he keeps up the messaging for a day and then takes back all he had just said, and disappears until a
Coupl months later, he reappears with the same requests…I really believed it too the very first time he told
Me he made a mistake. But enough is enough now after five or six times
Of the same thing. And when he contacts he goes on to say what he doesn’t like about her, and then changes his mind about her the next day??
I can’t imagine what would become
Of us if I had fought hard to keep
Him at the beginning. I dismissed all the cheating and lies I had discovered, because of his “intentions” with me…he knew how
To play the game and very well too.
I went NC on my part. No contacting him out of desperation. I had finally said to myself I have to have dignity and self respect. I do admit when he’s contacted me I was thrilled the first time. But after his repeat performances, I’m very turned off at what could have been.
I can see he hasn’t changed and goes behind his wife as he did when he was with me. I’m sure he was not monogamous like i thought. There were more than just his wife that he cheated with, now I know by what I discovered. They don’t change and he’s 61…it just gets worse!!
If you can just think of all the bad things that have happened between you both, that brought you here to begin with, each time you feel yourself sliding and want to reach out to him, hopefully it will be enough to hold you back from contact. NC gives you such clarity and an open clear mind, to see the things you were blinded by. It allows you to eventually see there were more negative than good qualities. Make a list and keep it close. Read it over and over. Keep reading others stories and parts of their stories will resonate with yours. And I have proof that if he lied
And cheated behind your back, he isn’t happy with the next because it’s a matter of time before he does the same to her.
I hope I’ve brought even the smallest amount of clarity to someone as others have done for me 🙂
Ladies,
I know this has been said time and time again, But I love y’all and you will get through this. Take back your life.
Things that have stuck with me recently:
“Don’t make him feel secure about how much you are into him if he is not making you feel secure about how much he is into you.”
“Get what you want out of your life or someone will walk all over you.”
“Get your wants and needs met in a relationship or get out.”
“LISTEN to what he is telling you.”
And my most favorite of all that resonates with me..
“The point is — the hooking of insecurity is a sure sign that this is a bad idea relationship. Those relationships are strangely hard to get out of because they are not real, they are two people whose deep underlying fears about themselves and life have clicked and will now be locked in a struggle not to make a more authentic relationship but to have the other person validate our story about ourselves and life.”
Girls, make it more about you and less about him. And the most important thing,
DON’T BLAME YOURSELF. REALIZE WHY YOU ATTRACT THESE PEOPLE INTO YOUR LIFE AND “FLUSH”, AS NATALIE SAYS.
These people very well may be a blessing in disguise for us to lead better, more fulfilling lives in the future.
Don’t be afraid to live without them, to go no contact and to break the cycle.
I struggle with this now as I work with two of the assclowns I’ve pursued. However, I am no longer interested in receiving texts asking for hook ups, looking for ego inflations, or any kind of non work related text.
In fact, I am no longer interested in even receiving work related texts on my non work phone.
The main assclown I am dealing with – We recently had a work function and I knew he would be there (He is a client of sorts) and he almost avoided conversation with me the whole time! He would later tell me this was on purpose.
BS!!!
We had talked about possibly me spending the night at his house after the party, to avoid me having to drive 2 hours home. However, when I had brought that up the last time we were together, he shrugged it off!
I went and got myself a hotel that night and did not give him one thought.
Then, 2-3 days later I get a text from him telling me to “call him” and that he “lost his phone, phone broke, screen cracked.” etc.
And that he’s been “trying to reach me.”
I responded with saying I’m sure this is something you need for work so what do you need. I am not at work (he was) so what is up.
He responded with, “No, it’s not about work. Call me. What are you doing? WHY are you being so mean to me?”
Called him.. got a story saying, “You have no idea what I’VE been through.” “YOU didn’t even text me to make sure I got home that night, The guy at the phone store was SO mean to me, etc.”
He ended it by saying I may have a couple e-mails from him at my work e-mail address, as he’s been trying to get ahold of me since the night of the party.
He said with desperation, “I sent you 10 messages!!!” “I was thinking why isn’t she responding to me!”
Well, that’s going to look real professional come Monday morning. 🙂
When I asked why he didn’t even say goodbye to me at the party, he responded so sly, “Oh I didn’t see you.”
So I did get ahold of him much later in the evening, (I know, stupid.) and he texted me all night blowing up my phone with little messages to get my attention, like “!”
Who sends just an exclamation mark!?
I called him up at this point and said what gives? Do you really want to see me?
And he wouldn’t even admit it to my face.
I ended up going over and his first statement, “Wow, what would you have done if I wasn’t here. Where would you have stayed?”
Spent the night, slept in, not a whole lot of conversation but him mentioning a few odd things such as, “I would never cheat on you, I would never cheat on my wife.” (He is not married, just referring to when he gets married.”
Followed by, saying my name with his last name. Mentioned about our kids having my last name as a joke. Etc.
WHAT???
The only thing I did not understand is:
Why say all these things to me after you presumably “got what you wanted” ie. I came over, ie. I did go down on him.
Ok so now you want to say stuff like that. Case in point, left in the morning, he called me 2 hours later from work on his break, which he has never done before.
I’m surprised, delighted actually, I didn’t even know how to take it..
Tells me he’ll call me later..
Doesn’t..
I go in the next morning to four e-mails at work, one in all caps, saying “call me, lost phone, trying to get ahold of you.”
I didn’t understand why someone would “act so clingy” or “try so hard” all of a sudden. For what? Did he think because I ignored him at the party and that he “broke his phone” that I was mad because I had planned to stay there? Did he think his hook up chances were ruined for the future?
That is the only logical thing I can think of.
Flash forward since then, no texts to me, no calls to me, made a work call to me and mentioned my name and his last name again,
I was annoyed to the maximum level.
I lost my voice and have been sick so sent him some text messages being silly and he didn’t even write back.
So here I am but I REFUSE to feel like an idiot, even though to be honest with you, that’s all I’ve felt like since he didn’t even respond. Thinking, “What did I do. He must find me annoying. Why did I mess it up.”
I didn’t mess anything up because there never was “anything” to mess up.
He texted me this morning, like clockwork, Sat, asking me “Are you working today?” and when I didn’t respond, he wrote, “?”
I have no doubt this guy will contact me in the future but for a booty call and I almost want to just ignore the shi* out of him like he did to me.
But I’m a better person than that.
And I need to realize what’s real. 🙂
Thanks for listening,
Kelly