Last Thursday, I turned thirty four and I couldn’t help but remember that on my 28th birthday I was grappling with the realisation that was ill again (I found a lump in my neck that morning) and that I’d overheard the Mr Unavailable who gave me my epiphany shortly after, Dot Dot Dot Man (name for finishing his texts with three ambiguous full stops), correcting the waiter that recognised us from previous visits and saying we were “Um..er..friends”.
While talking with a few friends and us all reflecting on how much has changed over the past six years, it suddenly occurred to me:
There was a time when all of us were banking on three-legged horses. Some of us had lists, some us were pining for exes, one of us kept flogging that donkey till it collapses for a decade out of fear that he’d marry the next woman, one of us believed that she’d never love again, and I know I certainly believed that I was having an extended run of ‘bad luck’ with the dating pool. Here’s the thing:
We’ve all moved on. Most of us have settled down, some of us have become single but here’s the most interesting thing:
None of the guys that we were involved with have ‘changed’. They’re exactly the same.
Most of the guys are either not in relationships or are having similar types of relationship – that guy never did marry the ‘next woman’ who has taken over the reins from my friend. A few of them have settled down but the truth is, with the beauty of hindsight we recognise we weren’t the ones for them to settle with. Even if they have changed, it wouldn’t matter and to be honest, good for them. We’ve changed too.
Seriously. Being over your ex is definitely about being indifferent or at least not being invested in them either positively or negatively but I also recognise that much as I don’t own the right to any of my ex’s better selves, they don’t own the right to my better self.
This reminds me of my post on fear means it’s not happening yet – when we’re afraid of them leaving and becoming Catch of the Century, they’re often not even Catch of the Day in the present.
When I think of myself and the many readers who have or are plugging away at trying to get someone to change, I imagine us with a horse trying to drag it to the water and it jerking up and pulling back, digging its hooves in.
But here’s the funny thing – When they hold onto you while messing up your life and bringing nothing new to the table, it’s for similar reasons. They’re afraid you might get snapped up by someone else if you stop giving them the time of day and not only will they not have you as an option, but they may realise they made a mistake.
I know many readers are afraid that after trying to get someone to change and make them the exception to the rule, the moment their back is turned, they’re going to be a better person in a better relationship. This then plays into our fear that maybe it was us.
The truth is, the best thing that you can do post breakup is to accept that it’s over and grieve the loss of the relationship. The reason why you feel bad or even have regrets after letting go of a relationship that wasn’t working (you wanted different things or there were code amber and red behaviours made the you both incompatible), is because during the time that’s elapsed since the relationship ended, you’ve:
– Been in a holding pattern over your ‘relationship airport’ trying to get your ‘slot’ back which has left you ‘stuck’.
– Continued being with ‘them’, just in a different package.
– Have made choices and been involved in situations that in retrospect have detracted from you or kept you stuck.
The feelings that result on hearing about their latest relationship or them getting married etc arise from feeling like their lives have progressed while yours hasn’t. If they didn’t treat you that well or you don’t consider them to be a particularly nice person, it can feel like a kick in the teeth.
And truth be told, it does seem like those who cause us hurt seem to ‘land on their feet’ and ‘come up smelling of roses’ while often leaving us to pick up the pieces and knee deep in the doo doo from our involvement with them. To add insult to injury, they also tend to give themselves license to dip in and out of our lives.
While out dancing on Saturday night (check me!), I heard ‘You Keep Me Hangin’ On’ by The Supremes and it’s been stuck in my head ever since. My friend and I belted out every word – we knew it because we’d lived it. However I realise that even if they are throwing a crumb or a bone or the promise of a loaf to keep us hanging on, ultimately it’s us hanging on.
We hang on to the idea of who we thought they were or who we believed they might become.
I’m free because I didn’t wait for him (or anyone else) to set me free and I can assure you with 100% certainty that if I’d relied on the good conscience of one of my lingering exes to set me free, I’d still be floundering around in an unavailable pool.
So I’m going to say to you, what I would have said to me six plus years ago:
Stop the madness. This isn’t what ‘love’ feels or looks like. They’re just not that special and you’re not that desperate. Love involves a lot of ‘doing’ and without actions that reflect the love, it’s like being cloaked in hot air. Even if they do move on to someone else, this is not how you want love – trying to use an emotional battering ram to squeeze effort out of them that others do willingly.
It’s not you! Really! You haven’t got that kind of power to make someone change their personality or emotional style for a relationship. But if you do insist on doing stuff like dating a man that fell out of ten year relationship two months before meeting you, a man who can’t commit is what you’ll get, just like when you got involved with the guy with a girlfriend…
You’re just not that ‘special’ either – you’re worthy of love without having to feel like you’re extra special or finally ‘level’ because you made it come from a reluctant or bankrupt source.
Instead of worrying about what they might be and do – start worrying about who you are and what you may become if you continue. If you don’t put 100% into you and you keep banking on your three-legged horses, you have to own your choices. Someone can dangle a string, you don’t have to hold it, especially when they have repeatedly shown that they cannot come up with the goods.
You’re better than being a sideline piece or are an afterthought that gets slotted into their oh so hectic life. You’re also better than being with someone who actually leaves you feeling bad about yourself.
Love cannot take root, grow and flourish where there’s little or no self-love and boundaries as a foundation. Take the focus off them and bring it back to you. When you finally decide to fight for yourself and leave the prison of your fears, habits, and beliefs, you’ll discover that the door wasn’t locked, and you always had the power to leave and fight for something better.
Your thoughts?
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Hi Natalie, Happy belated birthday. I hope you had a chance to celebrate. I can belt out the words to that song too. You are so fortunate to have made the choices to set yourself free at such a young age but I guess it is never too late.
I know for a fact what you say is absolutely true. When I look back at my checkered string of EUM’s, AC’s, and physically/verbally abusive exes, I cannot for the life of me figure out what I could have possibly been thinking at the time. Each break-up brought heartache and new opportunities as well. As I look back, I am grateful for the break-ups. I know rationally in my head that this one will too pass and I’ll probably be grateful one day. I’m still working on accepting the fact that he didn’t choose me and that it has nothing to do with me. I know one day I’ll be grateful. It just all seemed so perfect in my fantasy, except for when it wasn’t!
Your website, insights, and the comments from the others have been a godsend. Wishing you the best.
Um, perfect timing. *thumbs up*
Thank you! I found this website today and I’ve read so much already. This is the most healing and honest place. Thank you, thank you!
Ooops. I can’t believe I used my real name. Perhaps Moderator could edit out? Thanks.
Love this! I also think you’re really over it when you HOPE they are a better person. As hard as it is to get there, if there’s one thing I’ve gleaned from this blog it’s that womankind (and mankind too!) does not need yet another assclown. To get to this point, you really have to believe that there is someone else out there that you’ll have those feelings for and for the right reasons. I think if you get it into your head that they are Last Chance Saloon (LOVE that term), then of course you’re going to be very worried at the prospect of them moving on to a being a decent person in a good relationship…because you don’t truly believe that there is the same out there for you. Luckily, from reading comments from the ladies who have moved on to much better relationships, we have hard evidence that this isn’t the case 🙂
Amazing! I can’t believe the timing. I just reinitiated NC with my ex after sliding back into an oh-so-familiar waiting game that left me feeling used and abused. Thank you-this is a great reminder that I just need to move on with my life and focuse on me!
Hello, Nics:
I also went NC again after going back to him. Nothing had changed, in fact, I’d say he treated me worse.
Sigh. Finally, I get it. He will never be different with me. I’m not 100% sure how he is/was in other relationships but I do know how he has been with me.
This weekend, I finally blocked all text messages and got rid of the text messaging function on my phone. Text messaging is his preferred method of contact and I’ve just totally eliminated it from my life. His second method of contact is email and I’ve blocked him on that, as well.
Honestly, he is not going to go through too much effort to contact me–if he decides to do so. One lame ass text message and perhaps one lame ass email is about all the effort that I’m going to get from him. Knowing that kind of hurts my feelings but hey . . . . I’m finally being honest with myself.
Tammy
I love this post so much, as I love all of them, and I always feel like I want to tell my girlfriends what I learn on here. When I attempt to bring up things like this, however, they don’t hear me, they’re lost in their own sagas while I feel like I’m empowering my self-worth through posts like this and my actions. How do we get women to support each other? Did you and all your girlfriends just happen to stumble upon the same epiphanies at the same time? Help me empower my sisters!
BZ I can so relate! When you begin empowering yourself and seeing the truth, you start seeing how everyone else is in a mess. You want to scream it from the rooftops that they don’t need to do that and they can do better and be better. However, NML had an article that talked about us wanting to share info with ACs and EUMs but it made no sense as they wouldn’t be receptive. I think the same goes for friends. I love the Buddhist saying: “When the student is ready, the master appears”. Which simply means that only when people are ready to change and grow can we help them…but we CANNOT force change upon them. Much like this article talks about not being able to lead an AC/EUM to the water like a horse and forcing them to drink.
It is disheartening when you see your friends in a mess and they keep floundering in it or talking about the same ol’ saga but don’t seem to hear the advice. You should definitely offer the website to those friends who are telling you about their problems, and offer them insights from here but we can’t shove it down their throats or take it personally when they don’t listen. I would also say that once you’re empowered you need other empowered people to be around as if you’re only around those in hot messes…you will become upset too. Sadly, sometimes when we start changing and growing our friends don’t come along and sometimes we have to reorganize our friendships altogether! But it usually works out for the best 🙂
@bz
I told a young woman about this site. She and I just started talking and, well, you know how we women can be at times . . .
Here’s her story: She was with a man for five years and even had a child with him. He just recently told her that they were NEVER in a relationship. I could hardly believe it when I heard it.
I told her about the site and I’ve asked her twice if she visited the site but she still hasn’t come yet. I’ve done all that I can do to support her. She and I had never met before that one day. I felt that she could benefit from knowing about this site but you can only lead a horse to water, you cannot make it drink.
Tammy
Tammy- Yes my ex definitely treated me worse, all under the guise of being ‘friends’. Well his friendship is not the kind I want. All he did was try to manipulate me into jealousy (rubbing his rebound gal in my face) or worse–saying things like “I still think we will end up getting married”. HA! please. NO THANK YOU TO ALL OF IT.
Basically, I had to block his number, email, facebook etc…because if it were up to him I would never move on and just be waiting for him to be ‘ready’ for a relationship with me. He even admitted this to me point blank! Gross.
Be thankful he doesn’t try to contact you–it will make your moving on much easier. My ex tried to worm his way back into my life any desperate way he knew how and it only caused me more pain and confusion. That is why NC is the only way to go with these guys. Because you give ’em an inch and they will take a mile. And no, they probably won’t ever change. And thats the whole point–because we CAN! 🙂
BZ- I am in the same boat, I just want to share this with all of my friends! Some of them listen, and some, it seems, would rather be victims to their own making. But It is so great to see so many great comments from women around the world who are empowering themselves to make healthy and positive choices.
Indeed Nics – you can’t force these things. Everyone goes out their own pace and some people will never be ready. But many others will 🙂
bz,
Unfortunately, unless your sisters are ready to be empowered (not just want to be, but READY to be), they will not listen. They will ignore, avoid, not hear, forget, get annoyed at you and whatever else they can do to keep the pain of the truth away. Cause at first, this site was REALLY painful to read. But…when the pain of HIM is MORE than the pain of truth, only then did I listen.
Now this site is a JOY to read, even the uncomfortable stuff.
“Cause at first, this site was REALLY painful to read. But…when the pain of HIM is MORE than the pain of truth, only then did I listen.” – Amen! And good to hear from you Blaise!
This is exactly what happened to me. I found this site a full YEAR before I actually took it to heart. At the time I thought it was a man bashing site. Oh what a fool I was. Then the pain became too great and I knew that I finally had to look at myself. I found the site again and wouldn’t you know it… I was ready for NC and everything I was reading sunk in. Funny thing was a LOT of my friends felt I was now a man basher. haha. They just aren’t ready and of course I DON’T bash men… only assclowns and encourage my friends to not engage in games. But I’ve learned you can only control yourself and that really I can’t save everyone. Now that I’m more at peace I think others will still have to learn their own lessons, but I am happy to share my thoughts with those that are open to it. I just try to give them more diplomatically now and keep the focus on how great these women are and how they deserve the best. They usually recieve it much easier that way than bashing the AC they’re dating or in love with.
bz (and others):
Not everyone wants to be saved/helped/rescued. I’m EXTREMELY selective about who I talk to about this site because most people are nowhere near ready for it. I only discuss it if my intuition tells me that they’re ready; unfortunately, I can count the amount of people that I’ve told about it on 1 hand (and at least 1 of those people still isn’t ready). When the student is ready, the master will come.
Blaise Parker:
I agree – this site is painful for me to read sometimes. But I force myself to read it because ultimately, it’ll help me and has already helped me quite a bit. (Which reminds me, I need to force myself through my book about mothers. :-/ )I’d rather force myself through the pain and come out alright on the other side, than be where I was about 5 years ago – a walking time bomb.
Blaise and Spinster,
yes, it can be painful – painfully embarrassing! LOL
I once sent Natalie’s NC self-test to a good friend who had the same ambiguous and frustrating ‘friendship’ with a man like I did at the time, and we compared notes a lot… she even told me how many points she checked off on the NC list (a lot!) but then she did nothing, guy still dips in and out every few months having successfully lowered her expectations to virtually zero… she has not mentioned reading BR… The thing is, we both got bored of getting together for girls’ nights and b*tching about these guys. Sadly the whole friendship seems to be slipping… I never realized how much it was about exchanging guy stories, until I ran out of them.
Just like I never realized how much of my ‘friendship’ with the EU was based on flirting and innuendo until I cut it out and it got so boring so fast for him, he faded out in a couple of months, and disappeared without explanation. He who professed we had an amazing connection and such a special friendship.
Other than my still raging anger for him disappearing from my life without a word, I have no reason to complain anyway. He’s an eccentric and egotistical character, and I was being a quite a dingbat to hang my hope for love and validation on him. Really, we are quite alike, but not in a healthy and compatible way. I wish he had a twin, I could sit down over a beer with and tell him all about him and we’d laugh at us both.
BZ-
Totally with you. my friends are very into enlightenment & empowerment, but this is VERY confronting stuff. the difference with BR versus every other relationship book/site/program, etc…is that although BR acknowledges these dudes are emotionally available or assclowns, BR pushes you to examine yourself, your accountability (not blame yourself-BIG DIFFERENCE), and do the work to make YOURSELF happy. It is not easy if you’ve spent your life believing your happiness was to be gotten from being in the perfect relationship with the perfect guy. My friends are great, but there is a huge resistance to these ideas. It’s scary. It’s confronting. But it’s the truth.
Nat,
Beautiful as usual. My AC actually DID marry the next one, and perhaps he’s even changed. Good for him, I don’t feel any sort of animosity anymore; frankly, I feel NOTHING :-). Even if he’s become the model husband and father (yep!!), it means nothing to me, because he wasn’t that way TO ME (and frankly, I’m the only person that I care about). I bear him no ill will, but as an adult, I have the complete right to decide whom to allow into my world. Even if he had wanted to remain friends, I wouldn’t have permitted it(it’s been at least 5 years of NC), because anyone who would have cared about me enough as a friend wouldn’t have treated me like crap all those years before. It doesn’t matter how he treats his wife, children, friends, etc…..what mattered is how he treated me….again, I am the only person that I care about. Discovering your own power is amazing. When I began exercising it for my own benefit, I felt a sense of freedom that was tantalizing. I have changed, and because I changed, HE lost HIS power over me. Right on as usual!!!! 🙂
Hugs!
OMG!! This couldn’t have come at a better time. After over a month of NC the past couple of days I’ve been fighting myself not to call hom. Today I decided I would look up his number on my phone bill (I had deleted it from my phone) as soon as I got home. Just pulled in front of the house and here was this email!! I’m so glad!! I would have undone everything and been back at square one all over again. Thank you sooo much!!
Natalie, again what positively “spooks” me, is how these articles come at the EXACT time that these EXACT things are happening in my life. Recently I’ve been terribly upset that my EUM has “moved on” (which is in his case, “falling back”), even though I KNOW he’s using this girl in some way that he’s in an alleged “relationship” with (and I say this because this “relationship” truly came out of nowhere!). He is a TERRIBLE user, and his drug addiction to marijuana makes him this way. Yet I STILL have that nagging fear that what if he’s “different” with her?, what if he really “loves” her?, what if it WAS me?, etc. My friends practically laugh because they can’t even believe what a downgrade this girl is compared to me. But he was the one who said two summers ago when we first got involved, that I was “better” than him. I didn’t want to believe it at the time because I still had my “rose colored glasses” on! But sometimes looking back on it, he was trying to TELL ME who he was! I just wasn’t LISTENING! But I KNOW he hasn’t changed. He is still that “three-legged horse” that you always write about. I am trying to move forward though on to a better relationship with a man who is actually decent and WORKS and doesn’t expect a woman to support him! You know he actually left me because I wouldn’t support him! God, what an assclown. The last words I wrote to him were, “I guess the shame is on me.” 🙁
So very true! They haven’t changed but I have and that has made all the difference. Its hard to believe it but its true. I now can see how it wouldn’t have worked in the first place on all counts. Eventually the last one would have ended very badly – the longer I stay the worse the end seems to be. I remember bawling my eyes out at not being “the one” for him. Now its totally turned around that I can see that not only is HE not the “the one” for me but there really is no such thing as “the one” – that would imply you could only love once and that’s not true. No… much better off now and really glad he did me a favor – gave me something I could not give myself at the time – freedom.
Great post Nat and it confirms all my fears, thoughts and decisions I had to make.
One of the best and also hardest things I did was to do NC with someone who dumped me and who I was still in love with and still worked with. This person wanted me to go from a partner with future hopes of living together, to friends and help him in a sense to get over me and make him feel safe in his decision of letting me go. Screw that! He never felt confident in his decision and frankly that’s his problem.
Apart from feeling devastated that I had to now force myself to get over someone, not spend time with them, work out my stuff and sift through the confusion. I had to also listen to remarks from people and the X that I was being immature for not talking to him. Apparently you’re not aloud to look after yourself and make sure your o.k. If it was up to my X and everyone around me then I would have stayed his best friend but only when it suited him, help him get over me, offer advice, give him his daily ego boost, have him watching over me and prying into my life, still put up with the mood swings and everything that frankly SUCKED about him then no doubt watched him move on with other women. What a joke!! Meanwhile I would have been stuck and still confused! My thoughts are when someone makes that decision they no longer want you then they have NO right to expect one dam thing from you. What I now realise and this article confirms is that he was the one holding on, not me. I watched him finally leave work about 6 weeks ago, it was with mixed feelings and one of them was, why did he land of his feet and get to move onto a high pay job? It didn’t take long for me to remember that he will still be him and wondered how he would even manage with new people who quite frankly would not pander to his moods. Like you said Nat I don’t have the power to change someone, he was a miserable mess before he met me, in fact for most of his life and I’m 100% confident he always will be. If it was up to him id still be stuck exactly where I was and god knows how much worse I would be feeling, I cant even imagine anything worse then I actually felt anyway. Instead I feel brave, more confident from going through the grieving process and excited about embarking onto my next journey whether that be alone or with someone. My X could never get back into my life in any capacity. He holds…
Perfect timing! Just this weekend I slipped. I was doing so good, made it through my 30 days NC. Then I had something happen that triggered the jealousy & anger. So I sent not 1 but 2 emails, which of course didn’t get answered. As everyone probably knows, this started a snowball effect. I sent 2 texts today. (Had to go online to my past cell phone bill to find his # , yet the extra work didn’t deter me). Those texts also went unanswered, so I really crossed the line & before I knew it, I was riding past his house. Yep another car in driveway. Makes me so sad to think he is living a happy life with her & not me. What does she have that I don’t? He is taking her on the vacations he promised me! I want to think he is EU but seems he is not with her. He was seeing us both at the same time. I didn’t know , not sure if she did or not. But still he chose her. He had chosen her before he got rid of me. He just stopped contacting me hoping I would disappear I guess. He wanted to ‘poof’ out of my life. So me not contacting him was a blessing for him I am sure. He didn’t care, probably didn’t even think of me the whole time. Ughhhh……I guess I have to start all over. Why is it so hard to let go? I read this site almost daily & I would like to thank you. Oh and Happy Birthday!
That is so horrible. I once went on dates with someone I met in the real world (by the way I am a gay man looking for a boyfriend! double the male trouble!) and the dates with this person just NEVER seemed to end. They didn’t want to kiss/go further and it just went nowhere. But they were super polite and courteous etc.
Final date there is a ‘friend’ at the movie we went to see. They looked like me, and I just knew. They’ve now been together for years- how do I know? I found them on an internet site looking for a 3rd!
The sheer audacity of people is just unbelieveable. You really have to nail people and ask questions and know what the ‘magic words’ are (i.e. Are you seeing someone else). Lies by omission!
*Don’t internalise (take within yourself) other people’s crumby behaviour*. It’s not about you. You can’t be responsible for other peoples’ BS.
Yep 407 – you’ve got to do the due diligence. I always say that you must categorically know their status between 1-3, but personally, you should know before going on a date. People hate asking because they’re like ‘They asked me out / were on a dating site so of course they’re single’ – ask. It’s better than the awkward moment a few dates in although it doesn’t help you avoid the liar liar Cheaters.
Carolinagrl – you won’t always feel like this, if you stick to NC. You’re just in that reactive, didn’t-get-what-I-wanted, you-will-love-me stage. We’ve all been there! It sucks when you’re in it, but when you’re out of it – through NC and doing some rad, new things for yourslf – you’ll see that his right not to be with you is the same as yours not to be with other people. This doesn’t justify anyone choosing to be a creep, but there is something that simply sucks about someone choosing not to be with you. We can’t always been on the side that gets to control what happens. And, in truth, we never can. Let go. You then have room for better things.
carolinagrl,
I feel you :(, especially the “poof” behavior. I was thinking about that this morning; my EUM has done the disappearing act a few times (I say a few times because I’M the one who has let him back to do it!). I did nothing to deserve being disappeared on. We would go out, he’d say it was great, that I’m great…and the poof! Gone. That is not normal, I now know (thanks to BR). It hurts that someone would do that for no discernible reason. I also thought, “How could he do that to me? I should be special to him! I’m a teenage flame of his after all!” <---that's me thinking I'm an exception to whatever his rule is. I am sad about it all, but I think it's good. I'm letting go of all the fantasies & grieving. What I want he can't give me and the more I sit around being shocked that he would do his vanishing act on me & waiting for him to contact me, the longer it will take for me to be happy with myself and open to the love I want. This post made me cry. I wish Natalie had been around when I had my first horrible EUM, but I'm happy I'm finally getting it now. Happy Belated Birthday Natalie (and fellow Leo!) Bet you never dreamed there would be a girl all the way in Los Angeles singing your praises in her therapist's office! 🙂
Thanks for the replies. I did actually ask him at the beginning, and I really do not believe he was seeing her at the beginning. He came to me about exclusivety…but then things started happening. I believe that she is an ex that he ran into on a business trip or a trip back home. I am trying to get over it, not beat myself up over the emails, texts and riding by his house. Today is a new day, I start all over. I just hope I can stick to it this time.
Last week the ex EUM dipshit asked me if I wanted a CD he was about to throw away (he’s started this thing now where when he wants to get rid of CDs he asks me if I want them as I am a huge music fan). Initially I was a bit shocked because it’s been a while since we spoke. I am fabulous at steering clear of him. And since he’s got this new thing with another broad at work, well, I especially stay away. Yeah, kick in the teeth. This time he had 3 CDs he was going to trash and (took me a couple hours AFTER THE FACT!) I took one. I know. I know.
Later that night, it hit me. This guy did not want me for whatever reason, he rejected me. I felt discarded. Now he wants to give me junk he’s about to toss? Whether he thought two seconds about it or not, it made me feel like “oh yeah give your throw away to someone you threw away”. I threw the disc in the trash. It was metaphorical for me. So next time he comes around looking to hand off his stuff to me I am prepared to say “No I do not want any more of your CDs” and continue what I was doing. F#ck I am better than a CD!
I love your last paragraph here. Often after a break up, it is so easy to become focused on all the factors outside of ourselves, that we forget to take care of the one person we can control in any relationship–ourselves.
I’ve found that personal healing really can only take place when we find the courage to look at ourselves and really work on making our life the best it can be whether or not we have a partner.
It’s only when the seeds of self-love have taken root that you can really ever hope to have a truly happy and rewarding relationship with anyone.
-Clay
“I’ve found that personal healing really can only take place when we find the courage to look at ourselves and really work on making our life the best it can be whether or not we have a partner.” Very well said Clay. We don’t realise that we can dodge the ‘work’ as much as we like but it will always come back to us.
Having a bad day and this post made me cry. I ended a relationship a little while ago and am feeling the down slide of self doubt. I also realize that I didn’t WANT to end the relationship, but needed to because it wasn’t healthy and he had serious issues to deal with on his own (alcoholism). This is the first relationship since my epiphany with the ex AC, and I ended up with a guy that had issues that were not going away. I really wanted it to be different this time, and feel so let down. I felt empowered for a bit because I opted out after a few episodes where my boundaries were walked on or ignored and some serious red flags were in my face. I knew what I had to do but feel so hollow right now. I know I wanted the validation of him”changing” so he won’t lose me but he isn’t going to change, I know this in my heart and mind, but I was hoping to be the exception. I’ m not. He did lose me. I haven’t contacted him after a final blow out and have ignored his attempts ( a few texts!) to contact me but feel so damn alone right now. I wanted so much for this to work and although have learned that I can’t change someone and it isn’t really a reflection on me, it still feels bad. It’s hard to let go of the fairy tale. The old me would of hung on to the fairy tale until I was a sobbing insecure mess. On the flip side, the ex AC prior to this may have changed, I don’t know but I know I don’t really care anymore. If he did, then thats good, but the ship has already sailed. I feel neutral about it. Having them linger only drags out the pain, funny how we find that validating……like saying please come back and hurt me some more so I know you haven’t forgotten me, I need to feel worse so I can feel better.
Jennynic, I think you’re having an entirely normal bad day and sending you big snuggly hugs. The way to get through this is to validate your decision. Fact is, he was and is an alcoholic. Not a recovering one, a current. He also has more baggage than a Heathrow terminal and isn’t exactly breaking his neck to address his problems. He’s happy as he is. It might not be your version of happy, but it’s his. You’re like the Other Woman but to *alcohol* and you want him to promote you in his priorities and choose you over the bottle. Not going to happen. The bottle is even bigger than himself so you’re giving yourself some back breaking and demoralising work. It’s also time to ask yourself: WHAT FAIRYTALE? I don’t read anything in any of your comments that suggests that this was a fairy *minute* never mind a fairy tale.
Your ex uses external substances to numb himself from problems both internal and external. To expect him to make you the solution to his problems, would actually be to replicate the same addictive and co-dependent behaviour which only further highlights how unhealthy this relationship is and also your idea of what constitutes a relationship.
You’re not the solution to his problems, not least because you didn’t create them in the first place and even by you loving him, it wouldn’t change the fact that he has a pretty messed up relationship with himself. It is wrong for you to expect what you do from him, even if he chirped about being a better man at the start of the relationship. From the moment that you knew he was an alcoholic, you had no choice but to get out of the way because the presence of his dependency means that he’s not equipped to be honest with you whether it’s about who he is, his emotions or his capabilities for a relationship.
What is to doubt? That you couldn’t be the exception to the rule that applies to everyone involved with an alcoholic? You deserve so much better Jennynic and I know you find it hard to believe. If you ever *truly* want to experience love and a relationship, stop trying to make the unavailable alcoholic buried in his own little world try to love you and overcome all of his issues and start taking care of you, get some extra support if needed and stop fighting reality.
All that you say is true. I am feeling better today and see things a little clearer without so much emotion fogging things up. I was in denial that if he wasn’t staggering around and passing out that he could function at a higher level and keep things in check per say. But like you wrote in one of your posts, someone can’t be just a little bit alcoholic. It reaches into his entire life, more than I was prepared for. I knew it was a bad choice but ignored my inner voice and minimized it. I am ashamed to say, but I was being naive about it all. I was dipping my toe in boiling water to check the temperature. Duh. Lesson. learned. Thanks Natalie, and Happy Belated Birthday!
Thanks for the super-generous post, Natalie. So many nuggets of wisdom in there! I am at the stage where I am noticing when I feel crappy (anxious) because of my new relationship, and when it’s from old hurts, but, I have to say, when I look after myself first – even as simply as eating and sleeping well, doing some exercise, finishing off that to-do list – it often turns out that it has very little to do with these other people.
You’re so right – they’re not that special. Even the good ones aren’t special enough to be able to determine your happiness and equanimity, as if they were magicians and we had no agency. (And the bad ones need to be chopped anyway – not because they hurt us per se, but because we don’t want, and choose not, to be around people who hurt us.)
And, it’s so right to point out that we’re not that special either. I was describing last night how new man really likes/loves and cares about me, but he’s certainly not blowing smoke up my bum, as you would say. As childish as this may sound, this makes me panic at times (because I am used to being idealised or treated poorly), but I am actually getting to the point where this seems the most loving and sound. He’s relating to me as a normal person – can you believe it!?!
For anyone who’s stuck thinking about what exes are like with other partners, the exes I’ve seen years after are not that different. I am glad to say that their current partners (wives and girlfriends) suit them better than I did. That’s how it should be. But they still do the less-than-functional, sometimes quite toxic, things that they did with me. It just works a little better with that someone else, for good and bad reasons (mostly good, in these cases, I have to say!). I am with Natasha, I hope they’re better at loving and being loved, especially the ones who have kids. I am only getting there now with the AC, but what makes things less light here is residual anger towards him – I am a little bit stuck in the feelings of where I left off with him (him abrupty ending things, and us never seeing/speaking again), which means I haven’t been able to normalise him. I have to assume he is as ordinary as anyone else, and still capable of being wonderfully funny and insightful one hour, and then plain angry, unkind and sulky the next!
Life’s hard – it’s great, but it’s hard for everyone. This post is also a reminder to watch how we think about other people, and what they can sensibly do or be for another person.
“As childish as this may sound, this makes me panic at times (because I am used to being idealised or treated poorly), but I am actually getting to the point where this seems the most loving and sound.”
This has given me a real ephiphany! I think like this too. Part of my change into a healthier person means that i have to get used to a new way of being related to and treated. It does feel a bit alien sometimes. It’s not dramatic, it relies on my own judgment to make sense of the situation, rather than being the glaringly obvious ‘I am being very nice to you!’ or ‘I am treating you like crap now!’. It takes faith in myself and him to keep me from totally freaking out and going ‘this is just not exreme enough for me!’, when faced with consistency, care, respect of boundaries and all those other amazing things that don’t come across like a firework display.
I also realised that the fear and the waiting for the ‘AC tsunami’ and all that, is just another way of maintaining control of the situation and keeping the other party at a distance. If you are constantly braced for disaster, the theory is that you won’t be taken by surprise or be devastated. At the same time, on some level, you think it inevitable that this person is going to suddenly switch on you at some point, so one uses that as an excuse not to get too emotionally invested, thereby maintaining a level of unavailability, which is not good.
Today has been full of thunderbolts! 🙂
So true, Minks. I can see me doing this, holding onto the AC-experience (as well as other childhood and adolescent hurts it reminds me of), like it is a railing, because, if I let it go fully and become fully invested in, and present for, new man, he might fully know me, and then fully reject me (‘when I haven’t done all this work to get through childhood and the AC for nothing’ goes the logic!).
Most of this is mental – because it suggests that I am not OK on my own (when I was OK on my own – I actually thrived in many ways!), that I can’t cope, that I can’t tell the difference between a good guy and an arse (hence Natalie saying to be careful which person you’re relating to, when you feel like something is a bit off or upsetting), and that I don’t have all sorts of great things (people, opportunities, experiences) in my life anyway. It also suggests that I need drama to fuse (or not, as the case may be) with someone, and that my main relationship mode is either as approval-seeker or monster-taker. Neither thanks!
Thanks for the breakthroughs! x
I think it is fear of the unknown, fear of vulnerability, old hurts surfacing, getting used to a new way of being and fear of rejection that makes us freak out.
I think for people working on self esteem, fear of rejection is the biggest hurdle, since it was this fear that motivated most of our lunatic behaviour before AC and EUM enlightenment came. Like you say – if someone fully knows you, they might fully reject you. I too was absolutely fine on my own, so i don’t really know what i’m worrying about. 🙂
Yesterday i had a bit of a panic, but i talked myself out of it. I feel a lot better today, because i didn’t seek external reassurance. It’s a hard habit to break and i think the transformation, for me, will be complete when i no longer rely on external validation for everything and just seek ‘feedback’ instead.
“I am used to being idealised or treated poorly” – That used to be me Elle. It’s the middle ground where a relationship lies. Idealised, pedestal. Them treating you like shit, pedestal. Both imbalanced.
I haven’t had any decent conversation with most of my exes. The more you get on with your own life is the less it matters not least because the possibility of having any closure/conversation becomes ridiculous given the time that has passed and the life you currently have. While it can be on our minds about how much of twit they are, they’re in La Land thinking happy thoughts. For us to continue to expend energy on them, even at a distance, is like I said to someone else in the comments, like throwing energy into the abyss or peeing into the wind. You don’t need to normalise him – give him a parking bay in a corner of your life or mentally bury him in your AC cemetery. No you’re not going to have the last word and yes he was a real piece of work, but you’re shot of him. He has no access. He might be happy, he might not – who cares? You’re free! Trust me, and I know your story, be thankful you weren’t together another minute and *embrace* your current relationship. I have a firm rule in life – it’s good to know the rule, it’s imperative to have boundaries, know what healthy vs unhealthy behaviour is etc and learn from previous relationships, but I also believe that if you’re going to be anxious or pissed off about something in the relationship, make sure it’s something to do with *this* relationship or you will kill it with your past and insecurities.
Elle, I have some residual anger too, so I totally know where you are coming from. Natalie, you are totally right about not necessarily needing to neutralize their sorry asses (or arses – I love British-isms), but park ’em or bury ’em. I am never going to be like “Ooooh, I have no negative feelings towards the guy that jerked me around for 5 years, begged me to take him back and then decided my half-Jewishness was a turn-off. Ice cream and champagne for everyone!!” What I can do is say, “He sucks. Hopefully he won’t suck for the next woman, because there are enough women (and men, of course) getting their feelings hurt/being used. No matter what he does or doesn’t do, he’s no longer my problem. Ice cream and champagne for everyone!!” Elle, enjoy your new relationship – you deserve to be happy 🙂
Thank you, again, ladies – this is such a magical site, really…I am so grateful.
You’re right, Natalie. I won’t get to normalise him. I hadn’t really wanted a formal conversation – something I gave up on after month two – I was just subconsciously hoping, on some level, to see him on the street (not possible as in different cities in different countries!) or equivalent, so that I could hear him speak or behave in a normal way, and maybe even trip over as he went to cross the street – you know, so I could see him as normal, not as this hero or this villain. But I am getting there, the caricatures are fading in my mind, and I am very aware of what you say, Nat, about them not thinking about us, any more than a once-every-few-months: ‘That girl was so into me, so I am doing a favour getting on with my life and letting her get on with hers’ (which is true, in a way, just skips all the accountability in between!).
And, yes the more great things that come into my life – from me tweaking my professional goals, as well as being a little smarter relationship-wise (about my values and what is worth struggling for – again, thanks in good part to this site!), the dimmer all of this anger becomes anyway. I really do think I am nearly there. Just not quite at ‘hope he’s happy’ phase. Having just written this now, I think that comes from the now-glaring fact that we were weren’t truly friends. I feel happy for my exes – in a remote way (rarely see or speak to them) – because they were relationships that, while they ended, were clearly two people trying to be decent, honest and loving.
Anyway, I am getting there! And I like this idea of the AC cemetary. It’s something new, isn’t it? I have to think about it like that – something new and not that much of a big deal.
These articles always seem to pop up at the time I need them most and I am very grateful for that! My ex Assclown Extraordinaire , sent me a short email today, after not speaking to him for a year, congratulating me on an accomplishment, which I suppose he heard through the grapevine. I am completely over him, have moved on and have ZERO desire to be friends, lovers, acquaintances and am not invested in whether or not he is a better person. I had decided to email him simply saying “Thanks” and then saw an email from the site, read this article and decided “HELL EF NO!”
The parts that resonated were about this person feeling like they have the license to dip in and out of your life at will, how they try to hold on to you as an option fearing that they may have made a mistake or in case someone else snaps you up and the fact about someone’s life seeming grand while yours seems to not progress. I think that’s perhaps what’s going on with him. I mentioned in another article comment section that my friend saw him the other day and he looked unhappy and pathetic. The article got me thinking that who knows what’s going on with him but this message may be him phishing, him feeling like my life has clearly progressed and now he is sniffing around trying to get his hooks in, thinking he made a mistake, he said in the message “You’re destined for great things”…no shyt *roll eyes*. He never apologized or acknowledged that we haven’t spoken for a year because of him leaving me hanging, yet he acts like absolutely nothing is wrong and he’s sending a friendly message…wtf…WE’RE NOT FRIENDS! I was going to answer to be cordial but I think not. I think he is still the same AC he always was, shows no remorse or accountability and this may open the door for him to insert himself into my life, scot-free, as he normally does. He has ignored me many times and I owe him nothing! I don’t need to kiss his feet bc he gave me some half-hearted congratulations…..and I won’t. Delete.
You’re right not to answer MissE – it would be stoking the fire he’s trying to start. They’ll try any old flimsy excuse while liberally pressing the Reset Button. You don’t need his congrats – hit the FLUSH 😉
Thanks NML! I can see that now. For a brief couple of minutes I started to wonder whether or not I was being “petty”….but I realize, no I am absolutely not. What will I gain by saying thanks? Nothing. The chance that it will seem as an invite to him is more likely, and I would rather avoid that at ALL cost!
In the past I always played the bigger person, I’m sure it did not come off that way to him, but came off like: “Wow….look at me….I am so charming and wonderful that no matter what I do, how I do it, how long I have disappeared, my ex will welcome me with open arms.” And then he would gradually increase his contact and then demands and then it of course got to the point of absolute brazenness. I have come to believe that ALL contact from him is insincere and is a manipulation tool to get his foot in the door so that he can then promote his own agenda. NOT GONNA HAPPEN THIS TIME!
I love my new sense of self and the goddess I am becoming! 🙂
I posted on this site about a man I was dating who always set off my instincts in some way (not thinking he was ready, too immature for a real relationship) although when I met him he was sober, fun-loving and had a lot of “potential.” We dated for about a year.
I wrote about it on this site looking for advice – he started drinking, partying, smoking weed and all in all being completely unavailable. He kept telling me it was a phase while also blaming me for pushing him into these habits – the “pressure” of the relationship.
Guess what? That was over 6 months ago and we broke up 4 months ago. Guess who is still drinking and partying? While I don’t keep up with him (No Contact for over 4 months) some of our mutual friends reached out to me in concern for him – they now see he has a real issue and are no longer close friends w/ him because of his party habits.
So while I have moved on with my life, feeling healthy and happy, my EUM has not changed. Whilst it was hard to start off with someone who was seeming EA develop a drug addiction and all sorts of issues, where would I be now if I stayed? Everything about my life changed for the better.
Health & Happiness to everyone who posts and reads this site.
Sho, you totally did the right thing and I remember your story. At the end of the day, even if it started out so great, it wound up in a different direction that made a relationship untenable. His problems are his problems. Be thankful he’s not dragging you down and kudos to you for moving on to happiness.
They have to WANT to be empowered.
Over ten years ago, I told a friend (who was and still is a mutual friend of the ex-EUM) that she, he, and others in our circle of acquaintances that they were all e.u.
But for the ex-EUM (who, though married, still checks women, including me, out), who did get married, all of the people I identified to her as e.u. are still e.u. and single.
This is so very true, and has led me to these insight about the 4 major EUM’s and AC’s in my past.
#1 flat out told me he needed someone to bitch at him. I wasn’t his mother, and would not spend time bitching at him him to treat him decently. He is now married to a “bitch”.
#2 kept the company of much younger women. I looked very young at the time, but the bullshit meter of someone who knew better. He’s now married to someone 10 years his junior.
#3 was mentally unstable, and needed to make the women he engeged with feel as crazy as he did. I’m sane. The one time he called me after no contact of 2 years, he constantly complained about how “crazy” his current girlfriend is.
#4 preferred women who he could dominate and control until he got bored, or, as far as I could tell, wanted somone to put him in his place when he acted like a dipshit. I don’t have the time and energy to waste on constantly deflecting that crap to prove I’m “worthy.” Because I already am.
These guys have all come back and apologized for the way that they treated me. But that does not mean that they changed. And all it changed in me was making me realize exactly what I do NOT want.
Happy Girl:
My 1 Assclown of an ex encompasses the qualities of several of your exes….it is creepily familiar and I was certain while reading your post that you had dated my ex, disguised as different men!
“#3 was mentally unstable, and needed to make the women he engeged with feel as crazy as he did. I’m sane. The one time he called me after no contact of 2 years, he constantly complained about how “crazy” his current girlfriend is.”
—- My ex AC is mentally unstable himself and he too would call me complaining about his gfs’ (with whom he’d break up with before contacting me) craziness *roll eyes*. How unfortunate for him to always find crazy people…*roll eyes some more* He also has accused his mother of being crazy (and she is no such thing, she is a lovely lady who he despises because she scolds him for his immature/irresponsible behavior) and he has of course called me crazy too.
“#4 preferred women who he could dominate and control until he got bored, or, as far as I could tell, wanted somone to put him in his place when he acted like a dipshit. I don’t have the time and energy to waste on constantly deflecting that crap to prove I’m “worthy.” Because I already am.”
—- This! The last I spoke to him (before he resurfaced today, 1 year post NC) he said he needed me in his life to call him on his BS and said I didn’t allow him to get away w/ it like his other gfs. He complained that his ex wife had no opinions unless he told her what they were and after me he chose really young girls and/or very foolish women who pandered to him and he inevitably became bored of them and dumped them and tried to come back citing the fact they were foolish, crazy, he got bored of them blah blah.
I’m sure he has not changed, so I opted to ignore the message he sent me yesterday. I am very proud of myself for no longer being validated by his interest, when in prior times I would secretly get off on the fact that no matter who he dated after me, he always came back because I was irreplaceable *gag*. I am incredible, yes, but that has ZERO to do w/ his reasons & even if I’m the one that got away for him….I am HAPPY to have gotten away, as regardless of his feelings, he is not what I want & that’s the ONLY thing that matters!
MissE, you and all the other lovely readers are not these people’s keepers. How fricking lazy is this man? He doesn’t need you to call him on his BS – stop fricking doing the BS and endeavour to be a better person! FLUSH!
Precisely. He is a giant “manchild” as you’ve so eloquently put it lol. No wonder his mother still plays such an integral role in his affairs and no wonder he has accused both of us of constantly “lecturing him”. Well maybe if he acted like an adult, then that wouldn’t be the case, as his YOUNGER brother(no less) is married, settled, on the straight and narrow so does not receive “lectures”.
Oh well his mother may feel obligated to be his keeper, but no one else should and he has been loooooooooong flushed! I have no desire to meet another man that I have to lecture, scold and coddle.
While I’ve made the choice to force myself to move on… going NC and recognizing that the relationship was way less than I deserved and he has a long way to go before there’s any possibility of him healing from his Narcissism, there’s still a part of me that is PISSED that he could get better and I don’t get to be a part of it. I put in 6 years hoping that he would one day wake up and be that half of him that was so much fun, while realizing how awful he was the other half. I’ve had to come to terms that if, by highly unlikely chance, he does change, my part in his life is done. Whatever role I played, it doesn’t matter if I wish I could have the good parts only. I just have to keep reminding myself of how bad he made me feel about myself and remember that I deserve a man with a healthy mentality. I may have grown up with broken, toxic people, but I don’t have to continue the cycle. It’s up to me to break it and I’ll be the one who reaps the benefits and it doesn’t matter what my ex does. It’s my road now.. and it’s nice not to feel like I have to be following someone else’s.
“he has a long way to go before there’s any possibility of him healing from his Narcissism” – Carrie, if you’ve done any research into narcissism, you should know by now that narcissism and mutual relationship are an oxymoron and that it’s very tricky to ‘heal’ narcissism, not least because it’s widely not clinically diagnosed, not least because the patients are too arrogant and messed up to actually seek out treatment. Even if they do go, they’re the type that tell you that the therapist said there was nothing wrong with them. They have to want to get better. Your love, a relationship etc cannot fix them so it’s like throwing energy into the abyss and peeing into the wind. It’s time to ask yourself why you need the love of someone who cannot love? Why does love have to come from such a destructive force? You’re right that you don’t have to continue the cycle but believe it by not continuing to be with someone that is a reflection of that cycle.
Oh yes Natalie I have researched thoroughly the demon that is narcissism! Don’t worry.. I have no desire to get back with him. I know I deserve SO much better. He is seeing a therapist who specializes in narcissism (yes I found him for him when I still believed he wanted to change, but I’m pretty sure he’s just a new audience member to him) and my own therapist has said he has years, if ever, before he’d be able to give to anyone but himself. But I am pissed that I used so much of myself for someone who will never appreciate all that I did for him. I’m working on that because it’s wasted energy. I’m now 2 1/2 weeks NC other than sending him an invoice for money he still owes me. I’ve been using Paypal to keep it business, but he responded by text yesterday and it threw me for a loop. He obviously was testing the waters to see if he could get me to talk to him again, but it’s not gonna happen. When he paid me, I had to fight the urge to send him a thanks, but then I realized it would just open the door to him again and I stopped the urge. Darn courtesy runs deep! I’m grateful I have strong will power and that I recognize he wasn’t any good for me. It’s just more difficult than I expected to let go of the 6 years I put in.. like I should get some prize or something lol. Oh I know! My prize is learning to love myself! Who knows if I would even have gotten to this point to recognize my codependency and childhood issues that allowed me to take his craziness if the relationship hadn’t happened. That’s what I’m trying to take away from it. Just the other day I found myself looking forward to eventually meeting someone who wasn’t completely dysfunctional.. but I won’t attract those people until I’ve put in some more work on myself. That’s what the rest of 2011 is for.
Carrie, good for you for getting out of the dysfunctional relationship with your narcissist. For the narcissist, if you think about it, narcissism works for them in their life and that’s one reason why they don’t want to change. Narcissists are the worst type of users and manipulators that walk this planet and the devalue and discard phase(s) of the relationship is emotionally devastating for the person on the receiving end of it.
And from what i’ve read, the majority of therapists believe narcissism is pretty much incurable and therapist treat the victims of narcissists alot more than they treat narcissists. And i think that says a lot – narcissists don’t go looking for help with their narcissism as a general rule. And i can imagine that the narcissist in the therapist’s office actually enjoys the attention they get! They’re bonkers really, Carrie. You are far better off out of the relationship. And be prepared for him to keep trying to get you to respond to him. Narcissists follow the same cycle – trying and trying to get a response from you and when get it, they ignore you again.
I’m already feeling stronger.. my life is my own now – not just based on what he wanted. And you’re absolutely correct, who he is works for him because well of course it is if everything is all about him! He would say to me when we were still living together after we broke up and supposedly wanting to still be friends (this was before i knew about the narcissism) “I can’t be around you because then i’ll want to get back together” and I’d say every time “Don’t worry! I wouldn’t take you back!” and he’d just act like I didn’t say anything.. I’m sure he thought if he really wanted it I would just be so grateful to have him back but I knew I couldn’t go back to how things were. Would I have been open to it if he really got help for his anger issues? Probably, if that had been the only problem. I was under the assumption that he was a normal person with somewhat normal childhood issues. But after I realized it was narcissism I had to accept that his problems were way too big to have any hope for a reconciliation ever. I’m just waiting for the day when he really pulls an all out contact attack.. hopefully it just won’t happen. I mean he did leave his other exes alone as far as I know.. just talked mad trash about them.
Carrie….finding out about narcissism is a real light bulb moment isn’t it and thankfully you did find out. Same here for me, I was so glad i found out as it answered so many questions for me about an ex-assclown, but it was quite frightening too…..when you realise you’ve been with a person who has a personality disorder and can lie through their teeth without the blink of an eye.
A major part of the disorder is not accepting any responsibility for their lives or their actions – it’s always someone else’s fault and it doesn’t surprise me he talked badly about his exes. They don’t do remorse like the rest of us, that is a place they simply will not visit.
Things would never have gotten better with him, Carrie, that’s for sure and your life IS your own now and what a great feeling that must be.
My ex. ..thought he was the one..planning to get married…family was on board. Ur the one baby baby baby. ..a year since ..he happy one day and disappeared.. ..we were living together in house we planned to buy…is planning to marry who he set up while he fell out of love with me4 months prior to running away…girls trust any intuition….now a year out …tough year..but looking back he and his family gave red flags..after dumpage. Started running again…working out after work…reading again…and reconnecting with the greatest friends. Who.understood but were glad I got it…lesson ..don’t loose yourself cause maybe your afraid of being alone..get to know you…on this side of Atlantic u don’t need any man to validate the Laura Croft in u…thanks Natalie. U really are a God. Send
I’m sorry to hear about what happened Maria – you can feel very blinded by shady shenanigans. It’s like having the rug ripped from under your feet. Well done for finding and using your inner strength. Keep the faith and it sounds like you’re well shot of the sneaky twit.
Oh MY GOODNESS… Natalie love when you comment…feel like a rock star…yes finally… needed time to process…grieve and now finally ..wish him well.. but better her than me…My dad (84) …So God Bless him…never liked him said… thank GOD!!! do you realize how lucky you are…he is right…thank God for my family..Natalie… you do more for people than you know…you tell it straight…I can’t thank you enough. for a year you have been my north star….luv you much…many blessings
again, perfect timing for me too. I have been in the nostalgia stage of wondering why my ex AC hasnt even bothered to reach out to me after our 6 year relationship ended. I am looking for some sort of reassurance that he NEVER gave to me in the relationship…what am i doing?! This post was exactly what I needed right now. thank you!!
Missfoosy, I understand your hurt as we all want to feel like we mean something but equally there’s better ways to feel like you mean something than attention from an ex that didn’t treat you that well *in* the relationship. Truth is – a breakup is to break a relationship. You’re not really supposed to be in touch, or at least until you’re over one another. I think when there’s a possibility of reading more into the contact, it’s best not to have any. It’ll get better.
This blog has been a God send in my healing from a really disastorous relationship with a very bad man three years ago. He has since married the poor woman he left me for and I am genuinely glad that he is off the market. I am so glad that unhealthy chapter of my life is over!
In my reading to understand why I have a string of poor choices when it comes to men …..I have encountered a relatively new word that is full of meaning. LIMERENCE. Google this word a learn so much about attachment to less than ideal romantic partners.
Thank you for the historical perpsective on your life and those close to you. I can’t believe the drama I created over such poor choices. Since Limerence is something I have done……I need to be more cautious in the future. Thank you for your reflection on your journey!
Congrats ValleyForgeLady on moving past your pain. No harm can come from going a little slower with eyes and ears wide open and feet in reality.
I want to change. I’ll do my best to keep this comment in line with the topic.
Yesterday I went out with a man with whom I felt pretty comfortable. I kept trying to monitor my own negativity. I kept thinking, this guy is already getting a taste of how pissy I can be. I don’t think it’s him. I’m just so apologetic or sarcastic about so much that I present about myself. The fact that so much doubt and anxiety run through my head is no fun. I wonder if I might as well leave guys alone, because I can’t share what is going on with me until ‘what is going on with me’ isn’t anxiety and avoidance. It was nice being out with him, not so nice listening to myself still sounding snarky or ashamed about life and work. I want to change that.
What about him, you ask? Hmm, how little I got to know him because I was so worried about me …. ! He was sweet.
I came home and late last night couldn’t sleep. Realized I was having a deep body memory about being used sexually. Goes back to a few incidents, but one in particular that was kind of ugly. It isn’t the actual events that stick with me, it’s the shock afterward, the sense that I chose that person and delivered myself into his kind of hands.
I ended up recreating/avoiding that shock with the past two ACs. Avoiding seeing that I was being used again, avoiding the horror of realizing that I put myself into such hands again.
Because I’ve been on a zero-shame diet, I was able to stay with the feeling and ended up being up all night crying, shallow breathing, realizing how deeply I believe that I am damaged permanently and will only attract abuse, scared, feel like ‘reality’ laughs at the idea that I would ever have a baby with a loving partner etc. Saw sunrise.
Just one date where I felt “comfortable” enough to be open and suddenly all this shit comes up. I don’t care at all about missing out on the last two ACs and whether they change to be better with someone else. If they do, good; less predators for us to deal with.
Will I really feel eventually indifferent toward people I experienced as predatory? Even with AC #1, who I haven’t spoken to in over 3 years, makes me grit my teeth whenever I see him, and I wish him ill.
Trying to focus on how this bitterness hurts ME, so I can let go, and change. That their memory still scares me – don’t know what to do about that.
*hugs* babe I don’t know but feel your pain xxx
Jaysus Magnolia (((hugs))) Be compassionate and gentle with yourself and stop trying to run before you can walk. You’re only just acclimatising to a different state of mind, outlook, and habits that you’re putting into action. You don’t have to date or even if you do, listen to yourself. What I hear your body saying is “Magnolia, I ain’t fricking ready yet! Let me offload some of this shit even if it means you cry like a flood that triggers a landslide. Men can wait. You can’t”.
I think you have to look at indifference in a different way and I say this from experience. I experienced certain people in my life as predatory. If I think very specifically about what they did or how I was around them or felt afterwards, my stomach feels uncomfortable. There was a time I felt ashamed of being so desperate for love and unknowing about healthy relationships that I put up with some of this shit, but much like when I finally accepted that other people’s actions are other people’s actions and that my parents failures are their failures just like any shame of others is their shame, I’m not carrying other people’s shitty wrongdoings.
Yes could I have done better for myself, yes could I have walked, yes could I have done so many things – as an adult, yes. But I didn’t know what I know now and I didn’t feel about myself what I feel now so what I did and didn’t do was greatly affected and irrespective of any of these things, some of these dipsticks took advantage of at best and at worst abused my lack of self-esteem. You didn’t know either and you’re still learning now.
You have to deal with things in how you see fit but deal with them you must until they’re on the backburner as opposed to being on the frontburner. If that means you cry and rage every day for months, so be it – at least you’re feeling and dealing. You must change your mindset about yourself because as long as you believe you’re damaged (you’re not) then you will act like a damaged person and align yourself in that direction. I have friends and family that have experienced terrible things – they’re not damaged and I think it *is* wrong of us as a society and individuals to deem ourselves or others as damaged due to experiences. You live to live and love again. You’re only ‘damaged’ if you give up. I see and know people who have experienced vicious, brutal crimes go onto love, have babies – why limit yourself? Why *punish* yourself?
Mags – Natalie’s loving advice has summed it up, but I just wanted to say that I can relate to how you feel, maybe not on the same scale and I don’t want to minimise anything you’ve written, but only last week, my intense ‘I can’t do this’ feeling when the new man did not call when he said he would (he texted instead with a rearrangement!) was essentially driven by the feelings cascading into this well of past fears, including an overarching worry that maybe I was destined for a lonely life, and some serious hurts.
Now, I don’t feel like that. I haven’t rewritten history, I have just figured out and remembered a few things: I need my life to be liveable and emotionally sustainable (so I can’t have every small emotion attach to every big emotion), I need to give myself a break, I need to grieve things properly and let the perpetrators take the rest, I need to trust that it’s OK to show people my less-than-perfect sides (it’s not like I ditch people at the first sign of their anxiety or pain – so long as they don’t take it out on me and want to address it), I always get another chance, I want things to turn out well, and I am getting better at all of this.
You are too Magnolia! It’s not easy, this whole process, and you’re doing it with real courage. One thing at a time! Now, be extra nice to yourself, OK!
Wow, ladies. Thanks. I didn’t expect such a response.
“There was a time I felt ashamed of being so desperate for love.” Natalie, even though I’ve been reading your stuff for this long, I don’t think I’ve heard you put it quite like this and realize I didn’t fully appreciate you had overcome THAT particular clusterf*ck of genuine need mixed with fear and shame. This gives me hope.
Elle: “I need my life to be liveable and emotionally sustainable (so I can’t have every small emotion attach to every big emotion).” Yes. And I just figured out that shaming myself over having big emotions is not working. Sounds like you have learned, for the most part, to slow the cascade to managable levels and to trust. This also gives me hope!
Man. I never realized how terrified I am now of each new encounter. Two posts from the “H on 2 Hurt” thread really resonated with me: PoisonIvy’s, who had flashbacks of being tricked, and Rosegirl’s, who is dealing with the fallout of not realizing how out of line her bf’s actions truly were.
Both these women encountered wolves in sheep’s clothing – I have too (though I’m sure Natalie would be like, “no, you encountered wolves in wolves’ clothing!” But never underestimate the ‘clothing’ power of kind words to the desperate).
It’s like we’re all realizing that there are wolves (if wolf here means harmful), and there are sheep. The world is not full of ‘sholves’ or ‘wolveeps’ only – that is, not every man is part wolf, not everyone is going to like you but harm you anyway. If we never knew there were real sheep, how would we know to brush off the wolveeps professing their love and giving us orders?
Phew, still feeling like opening up to a guy on a date is going to let the wolf in, stupid Magnolia, etc. Still feeling like sheep are not quite real.
But so heartened by your examples and support.
Baaa!
In the natural world, prey way outnumber the predator to keep things balanced. It seems, I too, meet wolves more than sheep and that the world is unnaturally outnumbered by them, but realistically, I probably present myself like an injured animal (low self esteem) and attract the predators (wolf), so the world does seem full of them. That relates to what you said, that for someone feeling desperate for love, the wolf can easily dress like a sheep and sneak in. Find your flock and don’t give the wolf the edge it seeks. Take care of yourself, take your time and feel better and the wolves will no longer see you as an easy target. More sheep will enter your life as a result. Me too, Magnolia, I need to do the same. From one limping sheep to another….baaaa. : )
“Love cannot take root, grow and flourish where there’s little no self-love and boundaries as a foundation. Take the focus off them and bring it back to you. When you finally decide to fight for yourself and leave the prison of your fears, habits, and beliefs, you’ll discover that the door wasn’t locked, and you always had the power to leave and fight for something better.”
So true, so true. I have played this silly game with the last two EUMs, not just the assclown. Believing in my soul that they would go on to the next girl and suddenly be unbelievably happy. That some other girl was going to get what I so desperately wanted. And that’s the key – desperation. That was why these time-wasters could come and set up shop in my life and why I could never evict them. I was desperate for someone to love me. I would morph and change and be whatever they wanted. And that, right there, is where the belief that HE would change for ME comes from. There was literally nothing I wouldn’t have done to get someone to love me. I lost ridiculous amounts of weight, bought designer clothes, took up hobbies and interests I could have cared less about to suit him, completely abandoned my own life and schedule – whatever it took to show him I was in it for real. And that is why I (until this very moment, Hallelujah!!!) believed he would change for me too. That’s what love looked like to me. Becoming someone else’s idea of lovable so that you could be loved.
I am going to be who I am (after first discovering who that is). I will love and care for me. Hopefully, from that healthy place, someone else might as well but if not, I will no longer desperately throw myself to the dogs to be used. I have changed. I don’t give a monkey’s whether they have or not.
Hi Debra, I think that the tricky part is that these relationships can end up making us frauds, which is something that we have to let go of in order to be authentic.
“I will no longer desperately throw myself to the dogs to be used. I have changed. I don’t give a monkey’s whether they have or not.” – Brilliant.
” when we we’re afraid of them leaving and becoming Catch of the Century, they’re often not even Catch of the Day in the present.” Love this!!!
Happy Belated!!!!!!! 🙂
Thanks Allison!
Happy Birthday Natalie, I hope it was a wonderful day.
Thank you for all you do. I am trying to muster up the courage to go Nc pathetic it’s taken this long …but I can see the light and this time , I pray , it wont be the oncoming freight train I jumped in front of!!!!!
bought the ebooks ( bundle cause I’m definately a fallback too)
You are awesome !!!!!!
Hopefool, thank you – I had a great time! Don’t hope though – do! You can do it!
In the picture you chose for this article I can see a double entendre, the horse has been led to the water, but not so keen to drink. But when I look again, I also spy a Large Horse’s Ass looking back at me from the photo. Hey wait, how did you get a picture of my EU, harem-having, Sir-Text-A-Lot, ex boyfriend? 🙂
My ex has been on the online dating site for months. He’s probably running his game on there, texting, emailing, e-chatting, maybe trying to get sex, but never providing them with anything that resembles intimacy. I bet he feels like a real King Player on there.
“I also spy a Large Horse’s Ass looking back at me from the photo. Hey wait, how did you get a picture of my EU, harem-having, Sir-Text-A-Lot, ex boyfriend?” Hilarious!
Clutching at straws, no doubt one day someone will be silly enough to feed him some hay, haha too funny Mel.
Old Pearl Jam song “hearts and thoughts they fade away” so true
I can definitely confirm that the ex EUM is exactly the same! I bump into him from time to time, though thankfully not recently. He is still spouting the same old stuff about not having anything to offer anyone. Too bloody right mate! And yes he has tried to dip back into my life, while telling me that my current bloke is so much better for me, that i’m far better off, but then in the same sentence tries it on with me (sigh). Where do they make these guys?!
I bumped into him at a festival a few weeks ago, while i was with the boyfriend. They chatted and were perfectly civil to each other. After we walked away i had a ‘what the hell was i thinking??!!’ moment. I almost laughed out loud because it was at that time a year previously, at the very same festival, where the ex EUM had made a huuuuuge play for me to get back with him after i dumped him – he then dumped me by email 2 weeks later. It took me a long time to get over that plonker, who told me in his breaking up email that he’d been dreaming about his former fallback girl and wanted to resolve things with her. I felt so worthless back then – i wondered why her and not me, i imagined he had transformed into the perfect boyfriend for her. I actually used to ask my incresingly exhasperated friends why he didn’t want me! Fast forward one year and he’s the same pathetic excuse of a man (and single). I on the other hand have transformed. I’ve transformed into a much happier person in a healthy relationship! Yay! 🙂
Thank you so much, Nat, i would not be here if it weren’t for you and this site. Hope you had a fab birthday!
@Minky
“..telling me that my current bloke is so much better for me, that i’m far better off, but then in the same sentence tries it on with me (sigh). Where do they make these guys?!”
So true where do they get the nerve ?!
My ex-EUM-narc-AC-homewrecker-“teammate” was the same,
knowing my guy was decent but he still tried to split us up by discrediting my guy and then trying it on with me WTF.
This post is true, he hasn’t changed in the past few years,
still the same old same old AC behaviour but now elsewhere (thankfully).
If you listen carefully they do tell you they are no good,
cos in this case he was “always no good at relationships” his words with 2 divorces and a string of broken hearts.
Too funny he said I’d “smashed his heart to a pulp” when I refused to sleep with him or leave my guy for him only to dump me later.
He had no right to ask, he was living with a gal too. It’s just games.
I’ve changed even more since then, tightening my boundaries further and learnt to avoid these AC types and staying NC.
Cinn….you are so right about this:
“If you listen carefully they do tell you they are no good,
cos in this case he was “always no good at relationships” his words with 2 divorces and a string of broken hearts.”
— My ex AC told me he didn’t attach to people, he asked to “back track” about 2 weeks after he asked to be exclusive, then 2 weeks later asked to be back together then he announced he loved me, he was divorced after a 2 year marriage, he said he hadn’t been in love with anyone in 5 years until he met me (mind you, within those 5 years he was married), the one girl he claimed he “truly loved” from 5 years ago (whom he also said I reminded him of)he said he “messed up” that relationship, he often commented that I was the only gf he had that his mother would like, he said he was good at making women cry, he said he had manipulated women “in the past” but had not done it to me…….omg the list goes on of all the ways he frankly told me and showed me that he would be NO GOOD and was a COMPLETE MESS! I thought it was all weird and saw them as flags but promptly picked up the flags and hid them behind my back, as his idealization of me (as another poster noted) felt good at the time and I was very happy to find someone who on the outside “had it all” and was also very into me…fast forwarding and future faking like none other! I paid the price…but it wasn’t all bad, as it was a catalyst for my growth.
@MissE
“omg the list goes on of all the ways he frankly told me and showed me that he would be NO GOOD and was a COMPLETE MESS! ”
Exactly, they tell us to stay away yet they were the ones who chased us! Complete mind eff. WTF.
anyway, I like to play the song “Forget you” by Cee Lo Green
and if you are feeling particularly hurt and angry you can always play his rude version “F**k you” 🙂
OMg sooo freakin true Cinn:
“Exactly, they tell us to stay away yet they were the ones who chased us! Complete mind eff. WTF.”
—The ex AC, after his back and forth and dipping in and out of my life– last year after not speaking for months and he had a new gf— he texted me to say: “You were right” and that he needed to indeed work on himself (read: “I am BSing and I’m just saying what you want to hear to get my foot in the door”). He then proceeded to say he would be going to another country for 2 years and I “shouldn’t wait for him”. WTF??!!! I never said I would! We hadn’t spoken in months and he had a new gf! I told him, great for him and good luck! He then texted me every couple weeks then every couple days and I would respond but never initiated contact….then one day he sends a lengthy epistle about how he was “pursuing me” and that his efforts felt “unrequited”…LMAO OMG! What a douche! How does he go from “don’t wait for me”, to sending some lousy texts then being upset that he was “pursuing me” (through texts..wtf lmao) and I was indeed not waiting around for him as he had asked!
Not to mention, on several of his back and forth occasions he’d state how he wasn’t ready for a relationship and a gf and he wanted to chill and be single…. I said okay…yet in the next breath he would ask me about my future plans and I of course planed MY LIFE without him in mind and he’d be upset saying how MY PLANS were impeding his marriage ideals, as if I was going away to grad school he’d have to do stuff alone! WTF?! How and why would I make plans with a man who says he isn’t ready for a relationship, furthermore MARRIAGE??!
LMAOO….these ACs omg….so crazy.
“And yes he has tried to dip back into my life, while telling me that my current bloke is so much better for me, that i’m far better off, but then in the same sentence tries it on with me “Is your ex my ex Minky? *snigger*
@Minky, “…it was at that time a year previously, at the very same festival, where the ex EUM had made a huuuuuge play for me to get back with him after i dumped him – he then dumped me by email 2 weeks later.”
This is what happened with me and my ex. I dumped him at a show, at a festival (because he was texting with another girl). He apologized and asked me to come back (by text) for two weeks, then when he finally had me on the phone (I suggested moving the conversation to phone, and he texted “Ok you can call me if you want”, seemed like he should’ve been the one wanting to call me, since he’s the one who claimed to want to win me back), when he had me on the phone, he acted totally nonchalant, like he had it all sewn up, made no effort to really convince me why I should come back. He couldn’t even stay awake long enough on the phone to seal a reconciliation.
So after we got off the phone I texted him that he’s the one who ruined us and if he wanted us back he’d have to convince me, he texted back that maybe we’re better off apart, and that was it. Well if he was going to be that lazy in the first place, why didn’t he just stay dumped? I’m guessing he was only begging me to talk to him, so he could be lazy then dump me.
Then the next day he did text me asking if he could have his jacket back he’d lent me. I suggested a time for him to come over and get it. Half hour before time for him to come pick up his jacket, I put it out on my front porch neatly folded, and I left. I think he’d planned I was going to be there for him to nonchalantly try to talk to me. I didn’t see any point in me staying around, I figured if he wanted to see or talk to me then he’d have to actually make effort and be nice to me. Needless to say the actual making effort part never happened.
Now he seems to have no trouble finding the energy and stamina to stay awake all night on the online dating site chatting up strangers.
Minky,
You confirm what I suspected about my exAC – but wasn’t sure if people would ACTUALLY be like that. He had no respect for others’ status, married or in an LTR or whatever. I guess he figured lots of people must be as hopeful to get action “on the side” as he had been. But he also just craved ‘owning’ people, particularly women, and had a number of men’s wives calling him regularly at home for advice and ‘mentorship.’ He would always say what wonderful guys their husbands were. He also kept in touch with a couple now-married exes, for whom he said he had paved the way for them to be in their current good relationship. Blecch.
Control freak and delusions-of-grandeur martyr in one! Ick.
Yaaaay for you minky! 😀
I too remember the days of wondering “Why her?”, he got several gfs in a short period, with a pause in between each where he’d come back profess his love, being a changed man then pulling a Houdini and ending up with someone else. I would think “Maybe he really loves this new one”, “Maybe this will be for real”…part of me knew it wouldn’t be and knew his pattern and knew it’d end and he’d be back…at the time I foolishly was comforted by the thought that he couldn’t let me go and “always came back” and part of me was scared that each new “relationship” may end up being “the real thing” (since he professed he wanted to settle down and for his next relationship to be his last).
Needless to say, he is still not married, still a serial dater, still up to his old tricks, still sniffing around me and still on that unhappy treadmill to nowhere while I have moved on, am happier, more empowered, headed to an Ivy League graduate program and am making room for a fabulous new life, with new people and of course, eventually a new love 😉
Thank you Natalie,
I had a breakup a month ago with a man I’d been seeing for about 5 months. I ‘d known him for a year. He said he was tired of fighting and I’ve shifted between blaming myself (mostly) and blaming him. During the course of the relationship I lost a baby and my state of mind took a nosedive. He doesn’t want to see the conncetion between my sadness over the pregnancy and our arguments. I wanted to feel closer to him after the ordeal and it just wasn’t happening. We never went anywhere, or did anything special just the two of us. I became frustrated and we fought every weekend for about a month. The fights were about lots of different topics but for me they stemmed from a feeling of not being seen and heard or thought about in ways that made sense to me. Was I emotionally demanding? I guess I was to him.
He dumped me by not speaking to me for 4 days. I sent e-mails, texts, and called. He didn’t respond. (How do you break up in that way? It was very cold.) When we finally spoke I begged him to reconsider. He said we should give it some time. I took a trip to Morocco that had been planned months in advance. He said we would talk when I came back. This trip was my dream and it was nearly ruined by my worry about the status of the relationship.
When I got back, two weeks later, he said too much time had passed and that “so many things changed”. While I was away he went to Texas to see Sade and John Legend with a “friend who is a girl”. She lives there; I’m not even sure how they met! I’m still shattered by this. How could he find the time to go to Texas when he couldn’t even take an afternoon off work to go get a drink with me? Some time alone with him would have done so much to ease my tension and feel reassured. Did he change for this woman? Is he being better for her because she is better? It’s been a little over a week since he told me. I cry every day. MY family and friends are worried about me. Today’s my birthday and I feel so broken and lost. I read this website all the time and it gives me some comfort. Hopefully things will get better in time.
How awful Donna and I’m sorry for your loss. I think situations like these either bring you closer together or put a very firm wedge between you. Relationships involve riding the lows as well as the smooth and what will break it is if when times get tough, you end up on opposing sides instead of together. It’s also important to realise that we all handle things differently, and often not that well. I think considering your needs, feelings, and what has happened is likely opening him up to a vulnerability that he wants to avoid. If he was unavailable *anyway*, certainly within a few months, he would have been showing signs of putting on the lukewarm/cold tap. Also thinking about someone other than himself and looking past his own nose may be tricky…
What’s happened is a lot to happen in 5 months, but fact is, it happened and it’s unfair of him to treat you as he has. Unfortunately, the more you try to get him to chip in some support and emotion, is the further away he’ll move. The best thing you could do now is get some grief counselling because you’ve experienced the loss of a baby and had your world turned upside down at the same time and have broken up. This will help you to find your center again. I would also hold that thought and your dialling, typing finger and make no contact with him. Every time you reach out, it’s like saying “Please throw some more salt on my open wound”.
You know the way I said a lot had happened in 5 months? Well it’s also important not to get carried away – it’s been TWO weeks. TWO WEEKS. Three if you include the week that’s elapsed since. Hardly enough time to change a personality, emotional style and break a habit.
I know you’re struggling but happy birthday fellow Leo and it will get better. But it won’t get better if you don’t get some additional support. Stop looking for Hollowman to make you better. Hugs xx
Donna, i’m so sorry to hear of your loss. Take care of you and surround yourself with the people in your life that truly care about you. This guy has caused you alot of pain Any contact is, as Nat says, throwing salt on your wounds, ((big hugs to you)).
Thanks for the birthday wishes, Natalie, and the advice. I did some research this afternoon and there is a type of post traumatic stress disorder that exists for miscarriages, abortions etc. I’m relieved to sind that I was experiencing something real as opposed to just turning into a selfish lunatic!
I’m sure the situation was difficult for him to process as well. There could be a degree of immaturity, self centeredness and his own coping mechanisms at play here. But I have to believe that the man who is truly meant for me will be there in tough times. Even if tough times come early on in the relationship.
One of the last things he said to me via text was that he wanted things to be a bit easier. I sure as hec would’ve liked that too. He could have helped make it easier for both of us. Instead he hooked up with another girl. I keep reading your Thanksgiving post which mentions, “Thanks for showing me who you really are…” I wonder if you have witten any posts that focus on how big or tragic events affect relationships. thanks again for a wonderful site. You touch people’s lives every day!
Donna, my prayers are with you. I had a similar situation (though nothing as serious) when a girl I had been with for a few months decided to cut me out, cold turkey. It doesn’t make sense, but sometimes bad things happen without an explanation and we just have to dust ourselves off and get up. Easier said than done, I know. Look within yourself and you’ll find that the strength is there. Take Nat’s advice and get professional counseling to help you through this traumatic time. Remember that no storm lasts forever, and you WILL love again.
Ohh Donna..How awfull..please hang in there…went through a heart wrenching breakup and he disappeared for three days before I actually knew what was happening …we lived in the same house…we were going to get married..hang in it’s a bummpy ride …but hang in some times I felt like attaching a hose…hopeless and ohh the heartbreaking pain of rejection and the lies..if only they were honest…hang in …i am living prove that ” yes Virginia”…Pheonix’s actually do rise from ashes….
Ha!! One of my fav relationship anthems, sadly the Kim Wilde version is on my ipod playlist a LOT, I mean a LOT meanwhile wishing I had the guts to one day belt it out on a Karaoke night in his face haha. Fab post Natalie and great advice, sounds like a great night 🙂
Agree you can’t fear what hasn’t happened yet nor can you assume people will change their ways, I’ve been stuck on that at times.
Possibly slightly off topic but I have also been flabagasted at star sign traits in my ‘case studies’ of men lately it is freaky. Some obviously lend themsleves to EUM traits than others, mine is Aquarius and renouned for being aloof, distant (and highest divorce rate ha, brill) but also genuine, make great friends then lovers, compassionate and compatible intellectually, take forever to commit/say the L word etc. Can we confuse this with EUM? Just wonder if anyone else thinks sometimes this is a factor on reading/ adjusting to partners styles also. Maybe I am looking for excuses for ‘hanging on’ …..?
Personally I don’t get too involved in the horoscope thing and I have a very specific reason: After one ex, I vowed I wouldn’t ever get involved with a “pissy Pisces”. The boyf is a Pisces and his birthday is I think two days after my exes. They have completely different personalities, characteristics, and values – like night and day. Dating is a discovery phase. If it were as easy as just looking up your star sign and reading statistics on them, we wouldn’t have to make any effort to get to know people.
“pissy Pisces” where is the like button? Okay I hear you…”keep it real’ .
“Giving them your back” is a Traditional Native way of handling situations or people that you find inappropriate or offensive. Instead of confronting the person, perhaps having angry words, you simply turn away from them as though they are no longer there. This hopefully gives them the strong message that they are of no consequence to you. Often exes, cheaters, etc. want to justify their previous behavior, want to think that they are not the jerks that they are or still want some shred of attention. Giving them your back denies them all of this and also spares you the pain of having to deal with them and still be able to behave with dignity.
miskwa,
Love this! I don’t know what part of N. America you are from but your comments always make me feel (even!) more at home on this site (I’m in Vancouver – unceded Musqueam territory – in a community where First Nations folks are much more politically powerful than back east).
miskwa…touchee!!! love this!!!
I was in a relationship some few years back. We parted ways and moved on. Just recently we bumped into each other and we had time to talk and update ourselves with what has been going on with each other. One thing I have realized is that , he has never changed. He might have had a new job but still, he’s this person I used to know.
Yes this is right on time..after NC for about 1yr i initiated because i honestly believe that over the past yr i have grown. What i refuse to do is pick up where we left off, i refuse to jump back into the old cycle of things, it was so unhealthy. I remind myself everyday that i have been doing the work that it takes to build healthy, honest relationships. Trust is an issue with me and because of this i accept no games and the first sign of a red flag is being dealt with not avoided. Im still learning. Its true with him i hold on to HOPE. What WE could be. Like the universe is sending us thru all these lessons to be learned just so we can make it work with eachother. *it sounds even crazier when i say it out loud but this is the kind of self destructive thoughts/behaviour that i had to reprogram* I am an optimist and a hopeless romantic. With that being said in reality i know i have to enforce my boundaries raise my standards and not settle for crumbs.
Wow again, Natalie! 🙂 Your post is full of great thoughts to keep in my head. One of my favorites is this one:
Stop the madness. This isn’t what ‘love’ feels or looks like. They’re just not that special and you’re not that desperate. Love involves a lot of ‘doing’…
And “doing” I did. He did none of it. Little bits and crumbs, like you’ve always said – just enough to keep my hopes up for change. He’s not going to change! He likes how he is. He believes he is a great guy. Well, I know better. He is a user – a sneaky snake.
It’s been 3 months of NC and in his usual pattern, he’s been slithering closer over the past week. Today he sent me a message that read: “Just wanted to say hi and if you ever want to come by and shoot the shit, that’d be fine. I won’t be mean.”
WTF? I won’t be MEAN? I won’t be there! I didn’t respond. That is so like him. Like I’m some kind of stupid dog waiting for him to give me the last slimy bite of his sandwich …
So here, Natalie and all, is annied’s new policy:
Would I rather be the one that would never go away or the one that got away???
Too bad for this a-hole. I’m the one that got away!
annied – I freakin LOVE this – “Would I rather be the one that would never go away or the one that got away???”
Great as always,
I recently added my ex on FB, my reasoning was that I was going to see him soon and more often ( I work at festivals and hes generally there) plus other events. The last time I saw him was in March at a festival, where he proclaimed his ‘love’ for me (we split in 2009) I told him where to go.
I really dont have any feelings for him anymore and I KNOW that I would not ever go there again, admittedly I have in the past yera had a few moments of what if?s but im human after all. I have recently stopped dating someone as he was unavailable, but it only lasted 4 months (and I noticed alot earlier than 4 months but admittedly I did stretch a little longer than needed, 1 month was when I knew ‘sigh’, until next time if there is one!), where as this ex was off and on (when I was a gluton for the punishment) for 18 months. A marked improvement.
I am now off the market and will be for at LEAST 6 months and no casual encounters either…..
Anyways, I know the NC rule makes buckett loads of sense, but its like every time I see this ex he has another BS story to sell me, my attention has ogne down each time but I know he will keep on trying. By having him as a freind on FB he can message me until the hills come home and I’ll ignore his crap. He’ll get bored quicker this way? I know im strong enough to ignore him now (I have previously blocked him for over a year).
Hi NK, I saw your message when I checked the comments – I didn’t feel this was really a question and I think you recognise that you’re playing games. – Facebook isn’t the Oracle nor the governor of life. You added your ex on Facebook because you wanted to and enjoy the attention on some level, plus you’ve convinced yourself that it was ‘necessary’. Truth is, it was completely unnecessary to add him and it’s like saying “My ex keeps telling me he loves me, but I keep knocking him back and it’s so annoying that he has a BS story to tell me but I decided to make it easier to tell me his BS stories by messaging me on Facebook instead of keeping it at a distance because we’ll bump into each other at festivals occasionally”. That doesn’t even make sense. Might as well you give him a meeting point and time at each festival so you can schedule in a declaration while you’re at it. If you were strong enough to ignore him, you’d be ignoring him instead of inviting him into your inbox.
I’ve recently been thinking about one particular ex from many years ago (it wasn’t really a relationship, but we were dating for several months). He probably wasn’t an AC like many other guys.
He was very nerdy, but desperately trying to be “cool”: He wore designer clothes that didn’t flatter him and hung out at parties together with his “cool” brother, even if his brother’s friends quite obviously looked down on him. He had a job for which he was overqualified. His colleagues went out with him after work, claiming “he was annoying and nobody liked him, but they wanted to keep him happy because of his skills”.
He was very close to his parents, even if they gave me the creeps whenever I met them (probably because they reminded me of mine). He also tried to impress all those people with having me as a girlfriend. I thought this was kind of weird, because I had never managed to convince people like that that I was “cool” myself.
I dumped him after a while, but felt bad about it. After all, I was just another person who let him down! I thought: Do I really believe I’m so much better than he is??? After all, we’ve both been bullied at school.
I think I now understand all this a little better. I always silently wondered: Why does he hang out with those people? Doesn’t he notice how bad they are for him? Doesn’t he see he is worth much more than that? Why does he need their validation? I also felt he would let me down whenever this seemed necessary to please the other (more difficult) people in his life. I think we were both quite EU. It certainly wasn’t my fault only.
According to Google, he is now married. Maybe he is really healthier than I emotionally, or maybe he has improved. Or maybe not. It doesn’t matter.
Isn’t it interesting how we let our minds go to that place of thinking someone must have really pulled their s**t together, because they are now married? I know I have thought that exact same thing with an ex-bf of mine.
But then I remember how EU I have been in my relationships, and I was married twice. He was EU, I was EU. We were a match made in hell. Unhealthy people get married all the time.
“Unhealthy people get married all the time.”
—- Sooooo true ICanDoBetter! So very true.
EllyB,
He could be happily married or still trapped in that dynamic, married to someone who demands he be ‘cool.’
A nerdy kid myself and unlucky product of a girls’ high school, I chose the wrong crowd-with-guys at university. One of my good friends from that time never understood why I kept going back for more abuse to that group. It was clear they thought they were better than me.
Even today one group of folks in the lit scene seems to me to dominate it and I feel I am between a rock and a hard place re being in the “in crowd”: I either hang with people I hate or cut myself out of a significant loop of work/profile/support. I keep vacillating between the two, constantly telling myself I can just strap on my fake dorsal fin and dip in to the shark pond every now and then.
One of my longer term exes from years ago suffered quite a bit from my inability to figure out where and when to try to fit in. I would bitch at him terribly, either before or after a social event. I always managed to find him terribly embarrassing.
He would have married me. He had a rough childhood and didn’t expect much better himself. He always tried to ingratiate himself to the guys at work, and ingratiate himself to me. I guess we could both see how the other was wearing a “kick-me” sign but couldn’t see the one plastered (by our own blindness and actions) to our own foreheads. Gosh, we would have been a pair.
He did marry the woman he went to right after we split up. They have two kids now and “are very happy.” He emailed me off and on for years to let me know how happy they are. I hope he’s better, but his being married isn’t any indicator of that.
@Magnolia, I can relate to your feelings about the “in crowd” in your field of work. I have very similiar issues, but what helped me was to pick a niche within my profession where most of the “in crowd”-members didn’t want to go. It felt a little humiliating at first (after all, I needed to admit to the crowd that I was “chickening out”), but believe me, it’s a huge relief in the long run.
I don’t know whether this applies to your situation, but if there is some kind of job within your field (or close to it) at which the “in crowd” sneers, but that pays (comparably) well and is overall a decent package (working hours, personal challenges, carreer opportunities and the like), then it’s probably the place to be. It might also mean having to acquire additional skills (“in crowds” tend to be lazy!), but it might be very well worth it.
Again, I’m not sure whether this applies to you. But I’m quite sure you are both talented and hard-working. Maybe there is a place where those talents would be rewarded more than where you currently are (or try to be).
Addendum: Maybe there are also ways to get support and information outside the “in crowd”. In my experience, this is often the case.
Think about it. Is there a way to avoid the “in crowd” without being cut off from everything that matters (for example, by sticking to a few mentors who really value your skills)? If yes, go for it. Your self-esteem might skyrocket, and your career might follow.
Magnolia “Even today one group of folks in the lit scene seems to me to dominate it and I feel I am between a rock and a hard place re being in the “in crowd”: I either hang with people I hate or cut myself out of a significant loop of work/profile/support.”
I see a similar dynamic in a social group I joined on meetup. I’ve had a lot of fun chatting with these people about our common interest. Unfortunately at the last meeting, one man kept acting like a dictator, trying to force his opinions on others, and kept criticizing others’ statements about their own likes/dislikes. Actually he was doing this to others but focusing more on me. Maybe I remind him of the girls that normally reject him, I don’t know. I saw others rolling their eyes while he was dictating too.
I rated the last meeting low because of it and sent the leader a message telling her why. It really drags down the tone of the whole group for us all. Sure hope he stops it.
Natalie one of your best posts! Very informative, very true and very funny. You tell it how it is girl! 7 months NC (okay a couple of wobbles) but I have moved on, the pain has gone, and I look back and cannot believe I stuck it out so long. It’s amazing how, once you are out of it, you see it all so clearly, could not have done it without this site. You are amazing Nat, Happy Birthday and keep up the dancing! Set YOURSELVES free people! x
yaba dabba do…isn’t great to be free and finally get it…right on soul sister
Great Message.
I really think that I should print this quote, and hang it on the wall; “This isn’t what ‘love’ feels or looks like. They’re just not that special and you’re not that desperate.”
I am at that place of letting go, and clarity is coming into view. Your writing has helped me a lot, and you really are changing lives for the better.
Bravo! Bravo!
Ladies, this is a fantastic article from The Frisky on jerks/changing men/self improvement/and “good guys”. I especially love how she says that men aren’t “art projects”. TRUTH. Enjoy – it’s short and a great read 🙂
Thanks for the link! I enjoyed that article! She hit on a lot that’s been said here. But do those guys actually exist? Here’s hopin’!
Carrie, I’m glad you liked it! I do believe that they exist – whenever I flag on that belief, I look at my Dad, the guys my friends are with, my brother in law, etc. 🙂 *Hugs*
I have to say, since stumbling onto this site (“when the student is ready, the teacher shows up”!), reading all the books, and amping up my therapy sessions my head has become so swirly-in a good way. My negative beliefs have been challenged, I’m grieving past relationships, I’m grieving and letting go of the fantasies about my parents and so on.
I’ve been almost paralyzed & “stuck” for 2 1/2 years in the most surreal relationships. I discovered here that one of my hooks is success/fame & engaged in 2 non-relationships with 2 people who are creative types in the public eye. It has been surreal to say the least. Once I discovered I had this hook, it really took the power out of it. I really got that I was seeking validation of myself because they were validated. All this while juggling a very, very dysfunctional marriage. I feel like I’m on the right track now, but it’s scary, I feel lonely, and did I say scary???!!!
This post is right on. My meditation teacher has said, “People, when enlightened, discover that they had the key all along to the prison they are in.” I set myself free from one of the relationships I was in a birthday gift to myself. I never would have thought that before. I would have seen walking away from someone as a huge punishment to myself.
Just wanted to thank you for all your’e posts, especially this one . I thought your’e comments to Jennynic about breaking free with guy with addiction(alcoholism) was astounding and I have copied it for my archives . Addiction is addiction whether it is alcohol , gambling, football, drugs,debt, spending etc etc .All forms of Disassociation from feelings if taken to extremes. I realize I had been taught to turn a blind eye as a child and repeated that pattern in my adult like in my relationships with men, female friends even. I realize now only I can get to grips with my own issues and nobody is going to ‘rescue’ me. Thank you for helping me get over my MM and all the other past AC’s. Grieving is tough, even scary, but I get stronger very day.I greatly appreciate that you recognize how stormy the grieving process can be. My counselor thought I was not only delusional but getting ‘psychotic’ . Yet two weeks on and I’m feeling peaceful and no I didn’t turn to tranquilisers as she suggested. Your’e posts and the comments from you all are the best support ever. Not only are you helping me but you are helping me to guide my daughter and to build her self esteem and keep her safe. Its so important to get to grips with our own issues, and stand up for your’e true values -especially if we have have children – otherwise the pattern is just repeated in one form or another. You are doing wonderful work. There’s been some days I cant read the posts as reality can be painful but out of the ashes I’m re-emerging better than ever- and you have been a guiding light. xx
Your right when you said most of them havent changed. I got to see evidence, when at least five years or more later an ex contacted me on a dating site (which im not active on any now) of course I did not respond, but lo and behold he may have gotten older in years, but he sounded like the same guy he was years ago, that goes for several of my barely if you would call it “exs”. Its so suprising bc I am so determined to grow, ive changed so much, how could someone possibly just exist? Its really eye opening when you can see how far youve come from what you used to deem as an acceptable person to spend time with. This past weekend I went out to an online networking event, which plans fun things for people that want to get out. I connected with this guy who was ehemm seperated in a friendly way, I did give him my number in the moment, he text me the next day saying he had a nice time and if I liked to get together. I told him I dont involve myself with anyone who isnt at least divorced period, although persistant, he had to respect it. I truly dont think the guy had any ill intensions and probably wants to mingle, but I know what I want, and he couldnt possibly give me the relationship I deserve. I loved when he said “no risk, no gain” and all I could think about was your analogys you use when gloing into somethimg with blinders on, its not exciting fot me to take dumb risks like that. Oh it was the post with the roulette table that reminded me of that.
When I initially started NC with my ex AC all I wanted was to him to eventually contact me so I could “tell him about himself” and get some satisfaction from rejecting him.
it isn’t until recently that I realised that I would only be telling him about himself in hopes that he learns from it and comes back a better man so I don’t have to move on and do all the hard work of getting over him.
The reality, friends warned me, I read blogs before and I had lists and lists of everything wrong with my ex but I went back twice. It was only when I was ready did I look inwards and realise my self esteem and warped world view were one of the main reasons I stayed in a toxic relationship for 31/2yrs. I am now working on myself and I am happier even on my hard days than I was with my ex AC. So telling him about himself like he doesn’t know or as though all he needs is me to hold up a mirror to his behaviour would be pointless. he may apologise even think about it and change for a while but it will be short lived as history has shown me
Another thought I had was that I didnt wish my ex well, I wasn’t enlightened, i didn’t want him to be better or be happy without me. I wanted him to lay on his deathbed at 90 and my name be his last breath. I wanted to be his biggest regret.I wanted him to look at his future wife and know she isn’t half the woman I am. However slowly I am realising that if God willing I live to be 90 and my claim to fame is that my ex AC who I dated for only 3 of those 90yrs many moons ago said my name on his death bed then I would not have lead a life worthy of the woman I want to become.
I am trying to learn and adopt the view everyday that it is not about what he does, how he changes or the life he leads or even who makes him happy or a better man. It is about the Woman I become, the life I lead and my happiness.
“Another thought I had was that I didnt wish my ex well, I wasn’t enlightened, i didn’t want him to be better or be happy without me. I wanted him to lay on his deathbed at 90 and my name be his last breath. I wanted to be his biggest regret.I wanted him to look at his future wife and know she isn’t half the woman I am. However slowly I am realising that if God willing I live to be 90 and my claim to fame is that my ex AC who I dated for only 3 of those 90yrs many moons ago said my name on his death bed then I would not have lead a life worthy of the woman I want to become.”
— LOL! So true Jane. At one point I felt the same, but now see, as you do, how ridiculous it is.
I did get to a point of wishing my ex well and hoping that he changed, especially for his son, because his antics will surely negatively affect that poor boy and create an AC of him too…as the exs’ father, from what I know of him, is very much an AC as well. I did have hope for him to break the chain. I still wish him well but am accepting that he may never change…..
If he thinks of me at 90 or not, doesn’t matter….it’s just sad. I have the power to change my life and move on and be happier in another relationship while he does not, it’s not anything to gloat about, it’s just very sad. I am glad though that I can wish him well in a detached manner without hoping he lives in regret or without feeling (like I did in the past) that it was my duty to fix him.
A couple of days ago I posted that I had a text (lazy communication) from my ex asking if we could be friends. I replied Why and did his GF (the one he left me for) know about this. As of today I still haven’t gotten a response.
The old me would of taken him up on his offer, I’ve change – He’s still the same.
Mary C,
Please don’t respond, next time. Any response, and they know you still haven’t moved on. Ego stroke!
I love this post, so true in every way and it completely relates to my life! I left my eum about a year ago and as heart renching as it was, I’m so much happier and at peace today. However the one thing I will say is still pisses me off that he moved on so quickly shortly after with another girl and here I am, over a year later, alone and striving as hard as I can to open
up. It feels like he really doesn’t need to do much, there’s always someone waiting in the wings to take that spot (not that it’s a good one!). But it still ticks me off that he gets to have companionship, an ego boost etc…and somehow I’m still alone. I realize I need to find happiness minus needing or having anyone in my life but, just makes me mad! Thanks for this post 🙂
Perfect timing of this article for me too! I have been in NC for a couple of months before the ex decided to pop into my life with a phone call, followed by a couple of random texts to ……2 coffee dates! Why? B/c according to him, he wanted to make sure I was “okay”. Ummm I think its b/c he knew I was more than okay that he wanted to see me – see if he could still rattle my emotions and sadly, he did. Now I feel like I did post-break up – I’m a miserable wreck. I feel I took a million steps back just by allowing myself to get worked up over a few crumbs of attention he threw my way (to the point where I started initiating contact with him). Pathetic! NC was such a success that even he said he couldn’t believe how tough I was after we broke up…..but I let him break me b/c a part of me believed ….. well it doesn’t matter what I believed or hoped for – now I have to start NC all over again b/c I was wrong in my assessment of the situation. This time though I made it very clear that he is not to contact me whatsoever. He’s either “in” or “out” – no in between. And this time, I will know better than to pull at dangling strings he presents me with.
“We hang on to the idea of who we thought they were or who we believed they might become.” This is what hit home for me. Luckily I read this post not once but 3 times in the past hour – and its bookmarked for the next time I start being disillusional about him (which will probably be within the next 24 hrs 🙂 As always, thanks Natalie! And Happy Belated B-Day!!!
Happy belated birthday Natalie!!!! As usual, you are right in the mark. The song that comes to my mind after reading this article is Fantasia’s “I’m Doing Me.” As I write this comment, I am sitting in the kitchen of my new home, which is something I wanted to do my ex, but am doing it on my own because I’m worth it :))) Doing me never felt so good!!!!
Once again, the perfect words for me to hear at this moment.
I have taken the quote “You’re better than being a sideline piece” and have posted that in big letters on my bathroom mirror to view every morning. That needs to be my mantra, until I can believe it without having to read the words.
Breaking free is not easy. However, it’s even worse when they don’t want you too break free because being in love with them strokes their oh-so-delicate ego.
I’m done falling into that pattern of saying to myself, “I’ve made an impact on this man’s heart” and ” I know he really loves me. He just has a hard time showing it”. If he did love me, I would feel loved and not used. Thank you, Natalie, for another great article.
*Once again, the perfect words for me to hear at this moment.
Thank you, Natalie, for another great article.*
I totally agree. Thanks Natalie. I needed these words at THIS moment.
*“You’re better than being a sideline piece” and have posted that in big letters on my bathroom mirror to view every morning. That needs to be my mantra, until I can believe it without having to read the words.*
Good idea.
Instead of opting out at the red flags & big flashing amber alerts lights, I made excuses and quelled my protective instincts with illusionary love mantras such as:
* “I’ve made an impact on this man’s heart” and” I know he really loves me. He just has a hard time showing it”.*
BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER is:
*”if he did love me, I would feel loved and not used.”*
Thanks Donna. I needed these words at THIS moment.
Happy birthday Natalie, and keep up the good work!
I’d love it if you’d write something on the comment above by ICanDoBetter, which I found really, really helpful – that many of us see ‘marriage’ or some kind of semi-permanent equivalent as having ‘made it’.
So our ex’s get married, and we think ‘DAMN! the one that got away’, and ‘what’s she got that I ain’t got?’ and ‘he’s changed, oh she’s so lucky’, etc etc.
Or worse, we try to rush in with compensatory ‘marriages’ of our own, so we can show him that we damn well made it after all, before he did, and boy does he feel small now …
But what ICanDoBetter said is so true: people get married all the time – mean, ugly, screwed up, selfish people. Jesse James springs to mind; Charlie Sheen, Nicholas Sarkozy – Rod Stewart is on at least his third Stepford Wife now, isn’t he? (I think there’s a factory somewhere churning them out)
I know intellectually that marriage is NOT a sign of having sorted yourself out, and it’s not validation, but I struggle a lot of the time with this one, because sometimes it seems as if everything and everyone around you is saying exactly the opposite.
Anyone else in this boat?
I’m not sure if I’m in the same boat or just a sinking boat but I can attest to the fact that being married has NOTHING to do with being healthy or happy or the fact that someone has changed and the new wife/husband hit the jack pot. I was married three times from 20 to 41. I did not change with each marriage and I kept marrying EU’s. Same guy different package and I was the same screwed up EUW each time. Neither one of us hit the jack pot or “made it”. I don’t know if they have changed since and I don’t care. Once I stopped getting married, I then got involved with a married man who is in his 27th year of marriage.
After bing the OW for two years, I’ve decided that it’s high time for some serious self-reflection and some serious changes for me.
That said, I’m not so sure what marriage actually means, other than it is a legally binding contract between two individuals. I am, however, becoming a little more clear as to what a healthy relationship may look and feel like when two healthy individuals with self-esteem, boundaries, and common core values decide to be involved in a relationship , thanks to this website. I’m so looking forward to reading your “values” books Natalie. And rather than being simply “married” again, I’m looking forward to a healthy relationship, married or not.
Well, I was married and I did feel like I had myself all sorted out… really! How arrogant. I was so convinced that my marriage was going to last forever despite its lack of intimacy. I believed that staying and gritting my teeth and quietly blaming my emotionally absent husband was the right thing to do… ugh. Because marriage did seem so final, and I clung to that finality because I’m a grand procrastinator and I would have put off being honest with myself forever. So there’s one marriage in a nutshell. Plus, 50% end in divorce anyway, that number must be around 90% for unhappy couples so why did I think I could beat those chances? And why would you want to?
I have never been married (shock, horror) but I too used to think it was the pinnacle step in a relationship, some kind of achievement, a stamp of worthiness in society.
But if I’d married any of my exes wow would have I have set myself up for a lifetime of misery. Always bending, never being me always being that doormat for them to wipe their crap on as they do as they please. So even though I have flogged many a dead horse we never made it down the aisle. (THANK GOODNESS) It is unfortunate though it is only in hindsight I can see we were imcompatible and not in the thick of it.
Sometimes I think society must see me as a failure for not marrying as if they are walking around saying “whats wrong with her no one wants to marry her.”
But I think I would rather be making the long hard journey to change me even though I sabotage myself from time to time I know Im better off single than in a miserable marriage.
OMG, you are so correct with this point. I will turn 45 (and no kids) in 12 days and I feel so insecure that I have not snagged a husband. I believe that people look at me and say “she is attractive and smart, so something must me be wrong, she must be crazy” There have been times that I felt like I should be trying to snag somebody , hell anybody so that I will not die an “old maid”. Mentally, this thought is slowly destroying me. And I am working hard to release this thought from my mind.
Unfortunately, when I honestly look at some of my dating choices, I have to admit that I completely and totally chose unavailable men. So yes, maybe mentally, I was not prepared for a true relationship. This fact is soooo hard for me to admit and face because I thought that I really wanted a relationship. I just wished that I had come to this realization a lot sooner in order to save my self a lot of pain. But hey what can you do about spilled milk.
Looking at my past, sometimes I chose Unavailable men because I was naive. For example, I chose to date a man who had been separated from his wife for 5 years ( he had his own apartment), I thought this was as good as divorce. And he treated me very well. Problem was, he was also still treating his wife very well, under the disguise that “I must go to her and help her for the sake of my son”. And I continued to argue with him over the situation instead of walking away immediately. Eventually, I did leave but not fast enough. I learned the hard way that most times these so-called separated relationships are unfinished. Sometimes, I just made poor choices because I did not believe in myself, lack of self love or just plain ole lonliness. It saddens me to admit this truth, that I contributed to YEARS of pain for myself. I am trying to reconcile with myself that the past is over, tomorrow is not promised, so all I have is today. It helps to soothe my mind over my past mistakes.
Recently, I read this affirmation and I repeat it often, “I now realize that I created this condition and now I am ready to release the patterns in my consciousness responsible for this condition”. The patterns in my consciousness are
1. “I’m old and I am running out of time 2. there are no good men out there 3. any man is better than no man 4. worried that people think that I am a loser cause I don’t have a man. and 5. deep down I do not feel worthy.
I do not have any answers but i do know for sure that life has to be more than a perpetual search for a man. I am truly going to try to find my happiness today, even if that includes a life with no man.
I’m 45 and am reading a book called Love in 90 Days. The 90 Days may not be realistic but it is good for releasing a lot of negative patterns. Also a lot of people may be married at our age but not necessarily be happy. I’m successful, attractive, young-looking, fit, etc. but notice that married men and much older and often overweight men will hit on me – I guess they assume someone at a certain age will have to ‘settle’. I send them packing! Also I was hit on more when I was younger but those men were not great catches – players, addicts, etc. I am cautiously optimistic. But at this age, I would rather be happy and single than settle for the wrong partner. It gets to a point where I don’t have the energy for b.s. I’m not grouchy yet but comfortably aged.
MissE
you are right about them telling us who they are often loud and clear ….but what I can’t figure out is why oh why didn’t I LISTEN.???!!!!
Here’s a few classics he gave me :
” I’m a c*nt , I’m shit at relationships, you should stay as far away from me as possible ”
Err that’s not a red flag !! It’s a blinking neon crimson banner !!
” I am no good , I have been a really bad person ”
” women always end up crying too much ”
I could go on ..but I’m almost toooo embarrassed !!!
And PJM….my AC was married for 15 years but I don’t imagine his wife thought she had hit the jackpot …more like crackpot…he said himself he was unavailable emotionally for his wife and kids ..found it difficult to engage ..and preferred to sit in the garden alone , or worked long hours .his wife eventually left for someone else. which wad his excuse for being AC…but I think he had always been that way…he didn’t change.
so far from marriage being some sort of goal of prize with these guys ..I would pity any woman married to an EU/ AC it must be like being in prison.
You’re so right fitness.
My exEU told me early on he believed that relationships were hard work after the euphoria wears off, and that he’s not in a position to do the work, he doesn’t want to hurt/get hurt, he’s bad news, wouldn’t be fair to me for us to get involved… etc… But then, in classic EU style we continued on with the pillowtalk-by-phone sessions…. It felt intimate, but it was substitute intimacy. When I actually saw him in person I had this vague sense that he’s different in person and that I prefer the one on the phone… Toward the end he would start telling me things like women were nice–for the first couple of years… We were pushing two years at the time. He gave me several ominous hints like this before he vanished. I was so darn confused up until the very end. The mixed friggin messages: we’re friends, feels so easy to talk to me, I’m so much nicer than *them*, it’s all a pleasure, communication’s not a problem with me, he’s so glad I’m not like them because he has NO INTEREST in any of THAT. It almost felt like a veiled threat – like I’d better not complain, and turn out to be like them. But how could I, why would I, isn’t this why I’m putting up with not being the girlfriend so there’s no reason for drama?? Very preemptive stuff, elaborate distancing maneuvers, a self fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one.
Imagine the friend equivalent of the stay away from me speech! “Friends… they are nice, but they always want to socialize with you, and insist on plans, so forget them, they all get offended in the end, I’m so glad you’re not like that, that’s the great thing about you, totally easygoing, so glad you’re okay with just being passing acquaintances, I’ll call you again and tell you about more of my woes, wow this is special, this doesn’t happen to me very often — we’re like practically strangers, and we’re still getting along exceptionally well! LOL
@Umi..’be a little crazy yourself’ Love it and I hope I can adapt that to myself.
@ Cavewoman – OMG, “Imagine the friend equivalent of the stay away from me speech! “Friends… they are nice, but they always want to socialize with you, and insist on plans, so forget them, they all get offended in the end, I’m so glad you’re not like that, that’s the great thing about you, totally easygoing, so glad you’re okay with just being passing acquaintances, I’ll call you again and tell you about more of my woes, wow this is special, this doesn’t happen to me very often — we’re like practically strangers, and we’re still getting along exceptionally well! ‘
All of that!! He generously suggested that because ‘WE’ [i.e. meaning me not he] failed at being friends [as in I’m not having any of his b*s* anymore] that we can communicate on Facebook!! Wowee!! Look at me, I’m a pimply faced 15 y.o. mouth breather w/no friends and here is this guy offering me a virtual friendship on-line!! How could anyone turn that offer down?? Yea..I blocked him. But even through my bravado, it stinks that he downgraded me to ‘acquaintance’ status like we never meant anything to one another.
Cave,
I know this post is slipping into he archives but I just have to say that your “Imagine the friend equivalent of the stay away from me speech!” is hilarious! Illustrates just how effed up the whole thing is. My ex EU did all same stuff – “I am not good at relationships” / “I really feel I connect with you” / “I find it hard to connect with people” / “I would like to settle down and have children” / “I am never going to marry anyone” / “one if the things I really like about you is that you are so independent” (- read: not going to be needy and demanding!)
fitness, I’ve been there too with the them telling me how the other girls reacted to their behavior but I thought because he recognized it that he must want to change..not. I can tell you living with an eum/ac does feel like prison because my own father is one, and I lived with him for 19 years. My mom finally divorced him when I was 23, we all felt like we were in prison. I distinctly remember what a major relief it was when I moved into my own place. The last guy I dated was just like him, eu ac the works. The turning point was when he told me he never went on vacation with the girl he lived with for 8 years, she went by herself. It was like being hit upside the head with a brick, my father never went on vacation with us not once because he only wanted to do what he wanted to do. His needs always came first in the household even before the children. Now 20 years later he is alone because of his attitudes. I dont know how people go from being a major eu and ac without a lot of therapy, drugs and serious soul searching. I dont need the drugs but I sure am working hard on the other two.
Thank you for this post NML, and for your blog. It has been a great source of validation, comfort and answers to some very confusing questions about my most recent relationship.
The scariest thing I’ve ever had to do was finally tell my boyfriend of 2 years that I couldn’t be in a relationship with him anymore, and actually stick to that decision instead of going round in circles like I had so many times previously. At the time I thought I was making a huge mistake, that somehow it was largely my fault that the relationship didn’t work.
I now see that my ex was wanting to be in a relationship with me because he did not want to face the emotional pain he was carrying around inside his heart from childhood and other previous relationships. He also had quite negative beliefs about himself. I wanted to support him and show him that I loved and accepted him for who he was, but over time I realised that he just wasn’t able to give me what I needed from him: to feel loved and supported in return.
I am still carrying a lot of hurt from this relationship, because I saw a lot of potential and beauty in this man. I am also disappointed because I can no longer share the things that I would once share with him; we do not speak with each other anymore. However, your post gives me hope that I will one day find a greater, healthier and ultimately more fulfilling love than the ‘love’ I experienced in this most recent relationship.
I liked this comment:
“You’re better than being a sideline piece or are an afterthought that gets slotted into their oh so hectic life. You’re also better than being with someone who actually leaves you feeling bad about yourself.”
I certainly feel that as soon as someone makes you feel bad about yourself on a consistant basis its time to fold the cards. I am over my ex now even as far as to say, he’s not that big a deal, but I could have speeded up that realisation if I could have have been truely looking out for myself and listening to my inner voice.
I mean why didn’t I see it as a red flag that he couldn’t give me his home telephone number, that he didn’t want to be involved in my life, just me to be involved in his, that one minute he was calling every night to chat for hours then overnight no call at all. I mean how did I not see that my driving 300 miles to see him and him never doing the same was a bit one sided. They say love is blind, but that wasn;t love it was wishful thinking and not protecting my own back.
I look back and think though that the asshole has not changed. Yes he got engaged but three years later he isn’t married, has no intention of getting married. Now when I hear a man say “my ex is a crazy bitch” I am so tempted so ask “was she crazy before or after she met you?”. It seems to me that men who are unavailable create crazy bitches whereever they go because all those damed crazy vixens call them on their crap! So now I am all for being called a crazy bitch because when my ex said he couldn’t give me his home number when I was in his home just having had sex with him then THAT was the time to be a crazy damned bitch, get in my car and drive home at 3am in the morning shouting screw you as I left the drive!!!
Ladies, be a little crazy and save yourself from being crazier than paving later on.
Umi, I burst out laughing when I read the “crazy bitch” portion of your comment! I have always made it a policy (even at the soaring height of my Relationship Insanity Era, at least I managed to do one thing right) to avoid ANY guy that says, “My ex/all my exes is/are crazy.” like a Biblical plague. You have neatly illustrated exactly why, i.e. you will end up being called “crazy” too! I think anyone who talks excessive smack about their exes should be given a wide, wide berth. For all my crappy relationships, if I’m on a date and the guys asks me why my last relationship ended, I just say, “It didn’t work out.” That’s. It. Anything else can come off as, “I’m still in love with them/bitter/looking for a rebound/I’m a gaping asshole.”
” I have always made it a policy (even at the soaring height of my Relationship Insanity Era, at least I managed to do one thing right) to avoid ANY guy that says, “My ex/all my exes is/are crazy.” like a Biblical plague. You have neatly illustrated exactly why, i.e. you will end up being called “crazy” too! I think anyone who talks excessive smack about their exes should be given a wide, wide berth. For all my crappy relationships, if I’m on a date and the guys asks me why my last relationship ended, I just say, “It didn’t work out.” That’s. It. Anything else can come off as, “I’m still in love with them/bitter/looking for a rebound/I’m a gaping asshole.”
—-Natasha, this is so funny but true! My AC ex said that about pretty much all his exes. I am now wondering about me and how I’d describe him! He IS crazy and I haven’t been shy about saying that things didn’t work out because he is crazy! LMAO….But perhaps I should avoid saying that. I am not hung up on him or bitter but I felt no need to sugar coat his insanity. But now I’m seeing that I should stick to a less aggressive sounding response, but even thinking of it, it seems like omg what can I say besides he was completely mad! Lol. But yeaa I think I’ll work on stating something more neutral (although right now it seems hard and disingenuous). He is the ONLY ex I have accused of being crazy, because he is….all the rest, I feel fine about saying “Oh we wanted different things….it just didn’t work out…etc”.
MissE, I know exactly what you mean! My ex-AC is the only one of my exes that I would describe as a few apples short of a bushel. Incidentally, I’m sure he’s the only one of my exes that, if asked about me, would be all, “Bitch crazy.” (In assclown lexicon, “Bitch crazy” = “She didn’t want to put up with my bullshit.”/”I’ve gone DIY and pressed the Reset Button for myself and have conveniently forgotten anything I did wrong. She blew up at me and I did nothing! Bitch crazy.”)
As for ex mentions on dates, I think less is more. If asked, I’ll pull that little line out of my purse, but other than that I don’t bring it up. A new date with a new person is a fresh start and I think the best thing to do is to always be coming from a positive place. It can be tough, for sure, because if they press the issue, it’s like, “Ummm, what can I say? He’s crazy?” I just smile sweetly and say, “It just didn’t work out (yes, I repeat myself if necessary). So, you said you love the beach? What’s your favorite one?” Deflection accomplished! When in doubt, keep it sexy/fun/mysterious on a date. We all know there is nothing sexy/fun/mysterious/vaguely appealing about assclowns, hence, they have no place in the convo 😉
“It can be tough, for sure, because if they press the issue, it’s like, “Ummm, what can I say? He’s crazy?” I just smile sweetly and say, “It just didn’t work out (yes, I repeat myself if necessary). So, you said you love the beach? What’s your favorite one?” Deflection accomplished! When in doubt, keep it sexy/fun/mysterious on a date. We all know there is nothing sexy/fun/mysterious/vaguely appealing about assclowns, hence, they have no place in the convo ”
—- LOL! True.
I think I need to practice that. I say I am not bitter, and I don’t think I am, but I feel angry about not telling people he was crazy if they ask. I feel almost like, you ARE crazy! I defended you and allowed you to be an Assclown and carry on with all sorts of stunts…and now I also have to downplay your craziness…NO! YOU’RE CRAZY! Too bad! Butttt alas, it isn’t about him and I can divulge the juicy details in my memoir lol or later in the relationship, but in the early stages I’ll just say “Our mental health wavelengths were not in sync” lmaoo…I kid. I’ll just say “We were incompatible and had diverging paths, so parted ways” but then think to myself “And he’s cray cray!” I know I’ll probably do an inadvertent eye roll as I say this to someone, I can’t help it…smh….
Umi you are so right! I used to think I should leave these eu/ac’s with a good impression of myself (you know take the higher road, dont say anything bad, just walk away) all that got me was their boomerang behavior and most likely the only impression they had of me was one of disrespect and being a pushover. I’d rather be known as a ‘crazy bitch’.
This is absolutely brilliant! Thank you.
Natasha, it’s always best to do the crazy bitch thing when you have a huge red flag in your face…I did drive out of his drive screaming “screw you”, yeah and time had elapsed, no red flag around and yes I looked like a damned crazy bitch! ha ha ha ha
Umi, you are too funny!! I told my ex-AC, “I don’t ever want to hear from you again. Believe me when I tell you, you are done here.” He then told me, “You kinda freaked me out when you went ballistic like that. What did I do?!” Oh. My. God. (In case you’ve never read my comments, he begged me to take him back, fronted like there was a relationship in the offing and then made some nasty comments about the fact that I’m half-Jewish and disappeared. This all occurred the week of Christmas. Mmmhmm.) They are like little kids on the playground that when they have no comeback yell, “Yeah? We’ll you’re….you’re….a baby!” In their version, just substitute “crazy” for “baby” – it’s basically the same maturity level, except the kids are still loveable.
I totally agree that marriage carries this “you’ve made it” aura. It just has to do with the institution of marriage and the way society sees it – you can choose whether or not to believe it. Just because you’re married doesn’t mean you’re a good person, or better, or that it’s a healthy relationship. It’s just a matter of believing in who you are, what you believe in, what marriage means to you, and how you want to do it. It’s a tough journey to figure all that out (and it takes self-esteem). Other people will have their beliefs about marriage, but you don’t have to subscribe to them. And don’t be surprised if they feel threatened if your ideas about marriage are different from theirs! I don’t think “you’ve made it” if you get married, or are married. It just means you have a type of relationship that is recognized by the state and confers benefits. How the relationship is between those two people – unless you’re super close to them (and even then), you’re not going to know all the goings on between them. So ask yourself: what is it that you expect marriage to give you? Why? People talk about security and all, but even being married doesn’t guarantee security or that you’ll stay together forever.
Lily –
Good, good question – ‘what is it that you expect marriage to give you? Why?’
This involves facing some awful demons:
1) ‘I want to show those bitches at high school that I can pull someone, just like they did’
Who’s watching, already? You never go to a school reunion, and you’ve fled these people for years. Who’s gonna know? Better idea: create a fake Wikipedia entry or fake Facebook account, detailing your absolutely brilliant life and marriage to wonderful man, and then invite them all to view it. This would serve the same purpose.
2) ‘I want to show my parents that a complete stranger could and did actually love me and want me, unlike them’
Ouch – a more painful admission, but perhaps it might be better addressed in good therapy than in surgically and legally attaching yourself to another person.
3) ‘I want to have a ring on my finger so that I’m not the only one in the room who doesn’t’
So go buy one. Go buy as many as you want, and wear them, if that’s all it’s about.
4) ‘I want to stop hating every man I see who’s wearing a wedding ring.’
See ‘good therapy’, above. Get over it; would you want to wake up to most of them every morning?
5) ‘I want to feel superior to single women’
Oh deary me. Is it THAT bad? You really want to rub it in to others who are suffering? Well honey, that says a lot more about you than it does about them.
6) ‘I want to feel like I’ve made it’
Hmmm. Well, I suspect that your problems are so well-rooted that nothing in the world will make you feel like you’ve made it, until you can see for yourself that you have, and have learned to hold that thought.
7) ‘I wanna wedding!’
Really? If you have $25,000 to flush down the toilet (which you clearly do) you could actually do some good with that money instead and throw a party for all your friends, or make a donation to a charity, or go on a holiday, or anything, really. And while you’re at it, it’s probably time to rent ‘Muriel’s Wedding’ again.
Ouch. Ouch ouch ouch, but thank you Lily. I needed that!
cheers
@PJM: Great points! It’s embarrassing to admit, but I had many of those thoughts too, particularly 1) and 2)!
7) doesn’t apply to me, but that’s because after I’ve cut all the narcs and codependents in my family out of my life, there is almost nobody left to be invited to any wedding. I had a few more relatives, but they went no contact with my parents and grandparents (I can see why) while I was a child and I don’t even know where they are today.
Anyway, I always imagined the following embarassing scenario: “Would you marry me?” “Yes, if you don’t mind celebrating without my family”. Such a wedding might feel a little awkward, I guess! With many of the conservative, narrow-minded ex-boyfriends of mine, this would have really been a problem.
But with a really healthy and loving partner (who doesn’t blame me for my past), maybe not that much.
EllyB, you know my fantasy wedding?
We do our marriage preparation with our church (one evening a week for as long as we need). Then on the designated day, he comes and picks me up from my house that morning, with me in my decent white-ish dress. We simply go to my local church with a couple of witnesses and have our marriage as part of the daily worship there. We walk up the aisle together, and then walk back down it together afterwards.
Have about three photos taken outside the church with parents and priest. Then we have a finger food and cup-of-tea-and-wedding-cake snack. Then we get the hell out of there and get on with the real business of being married.
No frickin’ bridal waltz, no garter, no bouquet-tossing, no car with shaving cream, no massive debt, no fights, no stress, no tension. No presents, because we’ve both got houses full of crap already. Donation to charity of OUR choice, if you want to give us something.
Can you imagine the social outrage at our failure to sacrifice huge amounts of money, and to do all the RIGHT things that are supposed to make the marriage WORK?
But what a nice wedding day that would be for the bride and groom.
OMG, this is such a timely post. I will turn 45 in 12 days (never married and no kids). I now realize that I have spent all of my 30s and half of my 40s trying to find a husband so that I can get validation for having fulfilled the ultimate goal of “snagging a husband” This pursuit has literally pushed me to the brink of insanity and depression.
Yes, I have definitely contributed to my own pain with my poor choices. It is a very painful fact to face and accept that I have contributed to YEARS of pain for myself. I just wish that I could have come to this conclusion years earlier so that I could have been spared some of this pain. Hey but what can i do about the past, it is spilled milk.
With the help of this blog, self-help books and prayer, I am truly learning to love me and accept my life as it is today. I learning to be grateful for what I do have. And not give a f—k about what people think about me. Recently, I read this affirmation and I repeat it often “I now realize that I created this condition and now I am ready to release the patterns in my consciousness that is responsible for this condition. My long running condition is a deep rooted sense of unhappiness.
The patterns of my consciousness are:
1. I’m getting old and I am running out of time
2. There are no good men out there
3. Any man is better than no man
4. i am to too whatever (fill in the blank cause it changes to my mood, day, sun position)
5. I feel unworthy for true happiness, whether its relationships or work.
6. OMG, people must think that I am loser because I am single.
I simply can not continue this perpetual search for a man. Gosh it has to be more to life than this. But society makes it sooo hard to to believe anything other that snagging a husband is the ultimate. For example, I was commenting on what an extraordinary woman Oprah Winfrey is and my Auntie said, yeah but she could not get Stedman to marry her. That type of thought is exactly what I am trying expel from my mind. With all that Oprah has accomplished, in this society, she is still considered by some people, unsuccessful because she never married and had children.
I don’t have any hard fast answers, maybe my destiny or higher power wants something more for me than to be married, I don’t know. Of course I would like to be truly loved by a man and all the perks of having a steady reliable companion. I have not given up on love. But what I know for sure that today I have to find my happiness and be comfortable with me even if that means that means a life without a man.
OMG, this is such a timely post. I will turn 45 in 12 days. I now I realize that I have spent all of my 30s and half of my 40s trying to find a husband so that I can get validation for having fulfilled the ultimate goal of “snagging a husband” This pursuit has literally pushed me to the brink of insanity and depression.
Yes, I have definitely contributed to my own pain with my poor choices. It is a very painful fact to face and accept that I have contributed to YEARS of pain for myself. I just wish that I could have come to this conclusion years earlier so that I could have been spared some of this pain. Hey but what can i do about the past, it is spilled milk.
With the help of this blog, self-help books and prayer, I am truly learning to love me. And not give a f—k about what people think about me. Recently, I read this affirmation and I repeat it often “I now realize that I created this condition and now I am ready to release the patterns in my consciousness that is responsible for this condition. My condition is a long standing deep rooted sense of unhappiness.
The patterns are:
1. I’m getting old and I am running out of time
2. There are no good men out there
3. Any man is better than no man
4. i am to too whatever (fill in the blank cause it changes to my mood)
5. I feel unworthy for true happiness, whether its relationships or work.
6. OMG, people must think that I am loser because I am single.
I simply can not continue this perpetual search for a man. Gosh it has to be more to life than this. But society makes it sooo hard to to believe anything other that snagging a husband is the ultimate. For example, I was commenting on what an extraordinary woman Oprah Winfrey is and my Auntie said, yeah but she could not get Stedman to marry her. That type of thinking is exactly what I am trying expel from my mind. With all that Oprah has accomplished, she is still considered unsuccessful by some, because she never married and had children.
I don’t have any hard fast answers, maybe my destiny or higher power wants something more for me than to be married, I don’t know. But what I know for sure that today I have to find my happiness and be comfortable with me even if that means that means a life without a man.
Me again – possibly I have been too hard on myself above, but my goodness, I was amazed at what came up first on my list of possible reasons for marriage …
But there are others, and they’re more positive:
1) I’d like to have someone to look after, and to help look after me
2) I’d like to have someone to share things with
3) Could be a whole new life?
But here we are again: I already have all those things in my friends, my housemate, and my own two hands?
Natalie, I think we are back at the ‘icing, not the cake’ point.
Oh, dammit all to hell. I’ve booked in for the ‘introduction to handguns’ class at my local shooting gallery. Ladies, it’s time to take up shooting for fun. And if I can get through my fear of loud noises, I’ll go and have motorbike lessons.
I was still having a very hard time after almost 2 months of no contact (except twice which he initiated) over a man who had lied to me about his relationship status. I finally picked up the phone and called his live-in girlfriend/baby momma and told her exactly what had gone down. From our conversation, I learned that he had “a history” of cheating and that it was entirely possible that I wasn’t the only one. Well, that helped me get over all the “what ifs” in a big way. I realized that, even if he had ended up with me, he would have just started cheating on me the minute the thrill was gone or the relationship hit a bump in the road. It also stopped the whole “why is she better than me” stuff. The woman he is with isn’t better than me. She’s just dysfunctional enough to keep taking him back after he cheats. Of course he won’t leave that situation because he can always have the prospect of another door opening elsewhere. Thanks for all the posts. Whenever I have bad thoughts or thoughts of contact, I just click on here and read until the feeling passes.
“You’re just not that ‘special’ either – you’re worthy of love without having to feel like you’re extra special or finally ‘level’ because you made it come from a reluctant or bankrupt source.”
This describes me to a tee ~and a pattern I still fight~ of chasing after the elusive, mysterious, rather f***ed up boy/man who is totally uninterested in me when I have a decent, loving relationship that I take for granted and abuse.
I see the pattern; I recognize its power, but I don’t understand it. And I’m sad that I feel so powerless to change it. How do I win the battle when I don’t understand what I’m fighting against?
I feel EXACTLY the same way as this. I disregard and don’t value decent care and attention from a loving partner and chase after love from people who clearly aren’t capable of giving it. Like BG I recognise the pattern but I haven’t been able to change the feelings. Attention freely given just doesn’t feel like it does when it is a fruit machine pay out. I understand the rational explanations for this and the links to self esteem but I can’t seem to shift the feelings.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY NATALIE!!
Since discovering Baggage Reclaim on June 23, 2011, I’ve used the blogs as a self-directed study.
Baggage Reclaim improved the quality of my day to day existence. Natalie triggers pointed self-reflection and after putting in the work, I’m on my way from a “barely there, faint, lost in a sea of wreckage and ruins” self-image ego to a healthy emergence of increased self-love, self-regard, self-worth, self-esteem and self-worth. Yayyy!
“Set You Free: They’re Still The Same. Even If They Change, It Doesn’t Matter – You’ve Changed Too (Or You’re Going To)” by NML on August 1, 2011 is sooo timely for me geting unstuck today in my search for the whys and the how’s. I’ve been going round n’ round, looking back and sifting through my self-destructive tolerance of Dr. Crappy’s shoddy, shiesty, slip-shod, D-, lackluster emotional work trying to sap a few drops of blood (read: validation) from a beaten dead horse (read: ended interaction with an emotional dead beat, crusty, stubborn, callus ass dude). No need to keep blaming myself, feeling ashamed, and/or feeling hurt for listening to his fake-a-future yippy yap and tolerating his drip-feed info, blowing hot & cold shenanigans. I can drop the dead weight, heal past hurts and put my efforts to better use by continuing to build and live the great life I have within myself!!! Yayyyy!
when it comes to idiot ex’s this song is the sort of thing that we should be singing as we move on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc0mxOXbWIU
Love that song…but I’ve always found it interesting that at the bridge, he sings “WHY??!! I STILL LOVE YOU!!!??” So sad and so true, you know better, you even stay away for your own good, but there’s residue, no? I remember a quote from Courtney Love, she said the pain doesn’t go away/lessen, it just gets farther away. Distancing yourself helps alot, but you’ve gotta do it mentally too. It’s a great thing when someone painful can become nothing more than an insignificant memory.
Niki,
I don’t still love my ex lol.. not even a little bit. Didn’t even notice the bridge except in that it was laughable when you are telling someone to fcuk themselves.
You get over people and you don’t love them anymore not even a bit. That’s when you know you are over them.
I like the message of “set YOU free”, instead of waiting for the man to do it like in the song. She says, “Why don’t you be a man about it?” Well, this is a great message for us to “be a woman about it”, and do for ourselves what these clowns won’t.
Both of my ex-husbands cheated. And I hung around for years trying to make the relationship “work” after that, when clearly, neither one of them were invested in doing any of the hard work. But then, neither one of them were about to leave either. Why would they? They cheated, and I still hung around. I realize I was waiting for them to call it quits, foolishly thinking they must truly want to work it out if they are staying. But, really it was just the easier thing to do for them. And for me too. In both my marriages, I was the one who ended up filing for divorce.
With the recent ex-bf, however, I hung around until he abruptly ended things by just disappearing from the relationship. And you know what? I think I got stuck on healing from this short-term relationship, mostly because I wish I had had the self-esteem to end things when I first knew they were bad. I didn’t take care of me by opting out, and so I let him kick me to the curb, and that is the part that was/is the hardest to get over.
So, this message, for me, is one of empowerment. I have the power to set me free, and don’t need anyone’s permission or actions to give me the green light. Thanks, Nat!!
Oh my god! I’m 28 and just got out of this relationship. WOW. Thank you for the words that may help me move on far more quickly…
I did something pretty stupid today. I emailed a relative of my ex and told her all about the pregnancy and how I believe my resulting state of mind caused the fighting in my relationship. She’s the long term girlfriend of my ex’s brother. An older woman who I always liked. I did it because I was in desperate need for someone to understand my point of view. I have no idea what he told his family about me. I wanted to be heard. I don’t think what I did was appropriate. I didn’t name call or try to lay blame in the email. I was just communicating that I felt sad about whole situation. I asked her not to tell him that I emailed her but she has no reason to do what I ask. She can’t respond to the email because I did it on facebook which has an option to block emails from non-friends.
I’m trying to feel better. He’s not coming back. Hasnt tried to call me. He caused me unimaginable grief. I’ve been thinking lately that he couldn’t have loved me to behave this way. When we fought he would come at me full force, like I was his enemy. There was so much resentment there. I have to add that there may have been cultural/religious issues that may have contributed to the stress. Plus he had been in a six year relationship that ended about 8 months before we became serious. When I met him he had just gotten out of the relationship, although he didn’t admit this to me until much later. I had an EUM on my hands! I don’t know why I let myself or him believe that our relationship was real.
Natalie, I can’t thank you enough for this! Between the “Stuck on Hurt” post and this one, you are like a therapist in a box.
I have been struggling with this very issue for some time now—why HER and not me? Why could he change for her? Not belittle and degrade her? Marry her? This and my inability to find someone to validate the fact that I’m loveable has kept me stuck. But I’m not just stuck on hurt, I’m now currently stuck on angry. Angry at him for being EU to me but then magically making himself available to her; and angry at me for being angry at him and allowing it to bother me (apparently I’m stuck on Crazy as well).
As one of my friends pointed out to me–“you never know what goes on inside of a marriage–you’re projecting….” I guess what I continue to chew on is why he couldn’t be happy with me and what was so broken about me that I couldn’t make him love me rather than why was I so broken that I stayed with him way too long.
I also agree with PJM(& ICANDOBETTER)–society tells women that the ultimate act of love is marriage and that the better woman is the one who is able to get him to seal the deal (particularly if he was EU).
SueC,
I still think my ex-AC would have married me if I could have shut up about being belittled and degraded. He had a nice house he had given me the keys to and had put me on his life insurance, flown me to the US to meet his family, introduced me to all his bigwig friends.
It took me a long time to reconcile that with his roving eye and random put downs. Why would anybody who put me down want to marry me? Why would anyone who wanted to marry me put me down?
Well. He was 50, had just sold a business, bought the new house, got the stable exec job, and was setting up shop in the city. He had, as he’d let me know, decided it was time for “a permanent relationship.” He hadn’t put much more thought into what kind of woman he wanted for that other than he liked smart South American women and she had to like good food and listening to business talk. The put downs showed me that what he meant was: a nice, hot brownskinned cook and maid to fuck who will dress up and play A-list hostess when it’s time to impress the buddies and otherwise listen raptly to tales of his decision-making prowess.
He held marriage out there like all I had to do was get with the program and I could have the prize. “My unhappiness” was all that was standing between us and a ring.
Would that have been ‘making it’? God, there were so many women around him that would have seen me as having snagged a great catch. I would have been in the ‘in’ crowd (screw you, mean boys who said I could never!).
But God, I can only imagine the level of indifference and abuse that would have ensued AFTER he got the ring on my finger, when there was that much even while he was courting me.
I agree, Magnolia. If you aren’t happy in the relationship and you don’t feel like you’re cared for and respected the way you need to be in order to be happy getting married isn’t going to resolve this!
I kept thinking “how could he do a, b, c? I would never do these things/act this way/treat someone I loved like this…” and finally realized that I wouldn’t do these things that he did because we don’t actually share the same values about how to deal with relationships, intimacy, conflict, communication, etc. And who wants to be married to someone who doesn’t have the same values about things that are sooo important?
Magnolia and Izzy,
I agree with you– if they belittle and degrade you prior to marriage, they will surely do it after marriage!
Izzy–bingo!!–we didn’t have the same values and just b/c he settled down with someone doesn’t mean that her values are any BETTER, they are maybe just the same as his.
@Magnolia: This sounds horrible, but unfortunately, there are many people out there who won’t get the point. Doesn’t that prove how silly/narrow-minded and often outright dangerous “in crowds” are? How can a guy be a “great catch” if he is that abusive?
I don’t care much for royals (except for Kate Middleton’s coats and blazers, which I all covet), but the following story has really made me thinking:
Would “in crowds” consider Charlene Wittstock a lucky woman? I’m sure they would (unless they are left-wing/anti-royalist). But is she happy? I seriously doubt it.
I think I may be starting to get there.. I’m reading comments about having an urge to communicate with them.. and I realized – I don’t! There’s nothing but insecurity waiting if I wanted that. I think back to the last time I saw him – almost 3 weeks ago – and how immediately all the self doubt came back.. me downplaying anything he said about how I sounded different (even though I knew it was because I was finally living my own life again and beginning to feel more self confident again) and him barking orders and expecting me to read his mind. It was like a mini-recreation of the last 6 years. I don’t know why I was missing that so bad! Missing what?!?!? There’s nothing to miss!
This is so true, I have been catering to my own beliefs… set me free, resonates… I have believed that he would, here I am waiting… why give him the chance when it’s me that needs to do the setting free… it would be a relief… so scared tho… I’m stuck…
Soooo true izzybell… “I kept thinking “how could he do a, b, c? I would never do these things/act this way/treat someone I loved like this…” and finally realized that I wouldn’t do these things that he did because we don’t actually share the same values about how to deal with relationships, intimacy, conflict, communication, etc. And who wants to be married to someone who doesn’t have the same values about things that are sooo important”? It’s not that I don’t want to do these things, maybe it’s because I’m scared, trying to find a shortcut, or just plain don’t know how? Maybe trying to find a reason to stay, hoping when there is none… maybe I haven’t done my homework… he has said I am insecure and I need a shot of self-esteem…
Believe me, it truly sucked when I finally had to admit that we weren’t on the same page. He kept saying we wanted and valued the same things, but his behavior didn’t support his words. I wanted to believe so badly that the mismatch was circumstantial and temporary- as you put it “trying to find a reason to stay”.
Still, it was kind of freeing to finally admit that there wasn’t any reason to stay as we didn’t share the same core values. Then it became clear that there wasn’t much else to do besides opt out and feel the pain. Because you can’t change someone else’s core values, and I actually LIKE mine– and am not going to be changing them anytime soon.
If you can, give yourself that shot of self esteem you need.. spend time thinking about what you like about yourself, and your values, and why you are a good person just the way you are.
I’m trying to do better as each day goes by. I’m getting help for the end of the relationship and the pregnancy. I’d been in therapy already I just added more sessions.
I’m trying to sort out my feelings and heal. I’m not sure if my guy was an AC or EUM. Although I met him a yearago we had trouble getting together because he had just gotten out of a 6 year relationship. I found out several months into dating him that he had just broken up but I was already sucked in. By the time we became serious he told me he loved me and wanted a family and asked questions about what religion we would use to raise our kids (he’s Pakistani Muslim). He was giving me signs that he was ready to give it 100%. After the pregnancy I needed the reassurance that I really was his woman. I wanted little things, like a picture of myself on his facebook page, or to go out on a date so we could escape what had been a really tough reality for both of us. When it didn’t happen we fought.
He was rigid and aggressive and I would become dramatic. He told me to “shut the F@%# up once! He would hang up the phone on me. We had a really nasty fight because I was wearing a knee length skirt and he told me I couldn’t go into his uncle’s house dressed that way. When we fought he seemed to treat me like an enemy. I don’t know where the resentment came from. I always tried to remember that this was a person I loved. Even when we fought. It was draining.
I still blame myself for not having the skills to deal with him. maybe a more strategic thinker or more secure person would have had some success. I wanted a chance to fix things, especially in light of what we lost. In the end he said he didn’t love me and that it was too hard. I have to accept that it’s over, but my brain is split and I want to try to get through to him.
I saw his van in the gas station in my neighborhood last night and it took a lot of restraint not to go up to him. I knew it would end up being upsetting. I want him to think about what he’s done and at least say he can understand the pain I was in and that he didn’t do anything to make it easier. He’s a smart man, I know he’s capable of it. It hurts me that he just doesn’t want to.
Natalie, I’d like some guidance on this culture/religion question as well.
When a guy’s from a completely different culture – and a strongly patriarchal one, where women really are still second class citizens – how to proceed?
And SHOULD any of us proceed, especially as we’re all dealing with these issues already?
I’ve met a guy at work, but he’s from South America. English good, family background probably quite wealthy, city boy. BUT BUT BUT – all we have done so far is a bit of flirting, and once he seriously crossed the line in what he said to me. I laughed it off at the time, as there were other people present, but immediately afterwards I sent him an email saying that he had crossed the line for workplace behaviour, and to be more careful in future.
He responded really well to it, and hasn’t pestered me since, so I’m glad I stood up for myself.
But this is a sticky one. How long does it take to separate ‘assclown’ from ‘different cultural expectations’?
In other words, how long should one be set on the default explanation that ‘He’s from Barcelona’?
Happy belated birthday Natalie!
I have recently returned home after a lovely break with some family on a Spanish island and am enjoying catching up on your posts and the comments. While on my holiday I was struck by how little I even thought of the ex EUM – really barely at all and only in terms of being surprised that I wasn’t thinking of him, if that makes sense… everytime he pops into my head (rarely, and I think now only out of habit) my internal “conversation” about him amounts ot nothing more than “You f-ing asshole”. End of conversation!! (pardon the bad language but that’s what I hear myself saying). It’s like there is no more for me to say to myself anymore about him. I really get this post of yours and particularly this bit:
“Being over your ex is definitely about being indifferent or at least not being invested in them either positively or negatively”
Yes, I think it’s important to recognise that we CAN stay *negatively* invested. I am getting to indifference I think, or at least the kind of indifference that comes with realising there is nothing to be gained from tormenting myself with ANY of it any more – so all I seem to have left is “you f-ing asshole”! And that’s it!
Oddly, the EUM and I did not ‘fall-out’ – there was no big row, no big statements, no drama – I just stopped engaging with him months and months ago now (I never told him I was NC – he knows nothing of my efforts to stop the madness). I have heard nothing from him although there is no ostensible reason why that should be; I didn’t “finish” with him, he didn’t finish with me, nothing was said – nothing; I just have not heard from him nor him from me. And all I can think is…. well so much for that!! “That” is what Iwas putting all that emotional energy into? Really! That was it! (“You f-ing asshole!”). Once I got that I really had to draw an emphatic line under it – that it had to be over *for me* – that there was no other way to deal with him – with the problem, then it ALL became easier to deal with with. It is about just letting it all go, stopping the madness – putting a firm stop to it.
Thanks for getting me this far Natalie… I dread to think what I’d be doing now if not for you and BR and the support of your readers… I don’t know what my future holds and, yes, it’s scary, but it’s a scary I can deal with cos I am capable…
Glad to have you back Fearless 🙂 . I missed your comments :(,
Not posted lately as been bomarded from contact from ex AC !_
Me only just maintaining NC .! I just know if the sweet words keep coming I will crack !!
Hey there Fitness,
I agree, it’s good to have Fearless back. Fearless, it sounds like you had a lovely holiday. A Spanish island, how dreamy. I had some weak, nostaligic moments today at school when I ran into some folks who reminded me of the good ‘ole dishonest, deceptive, stressful days and your f**king asshole comment kept showing up in the bubble above my head. I pulled through thinking about how I used to have to lie and decieve my friends and colleagues.
DON’T crack Fitness, you’ve made too much progress to backslide now. You don’t want to go back to the lies, stress, and despair, do you. Stay strong, stay firm, and stay fit. Try to remember that his sweet words mean nothing. Try to remember his f**king asshole actions. Tape your fingers together or just post here until your fingers cramp.
Fitness and runner, Thank you!! You are wonderful people. Fitness, you really, really do not want to go there. Block him as much as you can. Stay strong girls! Spanish island was fab! So relaxing. A total chill-out week. Tapas, sun, sand, swimming, Sangria… who needs an EUM/AC!! They are all dark clouds, rain, strain, crumbs that taste bad, leave you hungry and just leave a bad taste in your mouth. Life is for living and living to the full. Let’s get on with it!
Hi Nathalie
Thanks again for your dedication to this site. You are a life saver ! When I saw this photo, it reminded me of the saying “you can take a horse to water, but you cant make him drink”.
I check back on this site when I feel the need for support from you and everyone else. Its comforting to know I am not alone. I recently discovered that a past bf EU AC is dating an old friend of mine. it did not shock me to hear the state of their relationship. He is the same man only now more of an assclown. He moved on got married , divorced on and on. Why would he change when there is always someone out there available for him.
From my previous post of not being an “option” . The man I was involved with for five years did get married after 3 months of reuniting with his old EU AC girlfriend of 25 yrs ago . I have realized that if she can chose to live long distance with a man that has to have the LD relationship on his terms and lacking the ability to emotionally connect , then good for her. In fact that is why she wants to be with him I want more , I deserve more and I will have more in all areas of my life. People only change when they want to . I didnt break him ,so I cant fix him . I decided I was going to change my pattern, focus on me and I am in so much better place. Everything that Nathalie has written is so true – no contact, seeing the big picture, getting honest about yourself, bounderies, etc I am in a better place because I took the time to grieve the loss, let go of the anger and I do forgive him because he does not have the strength or need to change. He is a good guy, just not one that is capable of a intimate relationship . It may have been a blessing that she did come back into his life, that way he didnt try and come in and out of my life and make it more difficult to move on.
“Relationships are like glass. Sometimes its better to leave them broken than hurt yourself trying to put the pieces back together ”
Girls, stay strong, time heals, keep focused on your self . I realized once I started to love myself again, the love I felt for him left and began to come back to me.
I have never been happier in my life , what a relief now that I know more about myself and can have the freedom to make positive changes for me.
This article, and some of the comments above, really have struck home to me. I’ve had a happy single life, mostly, in spite of a few EUMs around(one for years, I am sorry to say!!). It’s true that these men don’t change, and that I’ve changed so much in the past few months that I wouldn’t feel the same about them if we met again.
I am almost forty, and never married, no kids. I’m still attractive, adventurous, and working toward getting the career I want. But—as some of you have said in earlier comments–there is a horrible social pressure that tells me I am incomplete by not being married! I get asked at every family gathering: “Are you seeing someone?”
I had to laugh at the earlier comment about unsuitable men approaching a woman this age–I think that men assume forty is code for “desperate female”! I still have eyes and a heart! (And a sense of smell!)
But lately, I’ve decided to give up on serious dating for a bit, and work on myself and my issues. This is not an easy choice. I’ve always had some “male best friend” or maybe a romantic interest in the background. It seems to me that although I am single, I could not be without a man around! Can anyone relate to that? My best friends while growing up were often boys. So it’s hard not to fall into the “comfortable” zone with a funny and unavailable guy.
I found this site months ago, when trying to give up my addiction to a man I thought had great potential at first(“we had so much in common”), who turned out to be unavailable. What I’ve learned since the breakup is that I am unavailable myself.
So hard to accept, but it was true. I couldn’t be close to a man, and accept real love. I guess this stemmed from rejection issues with my dad–if you go away, I’ll win you back!
So the question for me is, should I feel let down because I haven’t married? Would I be happier married? I can’t say–but this site has been such a help! I would have gone chasing after the ones who didn’t want me for a long, long time if I hadn’t found BR. Happy Birthday to Natalie and the site!!
Thank you for this appropriately timed article. I received a heartbreaking email from my Dad’s girlfriend of 11 years last night describing how my father criticized her endlessly, refused to help around the house, and finally ended things between them. I had to respond and let her know that the horrible things she described him doing were exactly what he did to my beautiful mother, sister, and me for the entire 14 years he lived with us. He was like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde–a human dynamite stick of aggression and anger. He was married to my Mom from age 28 until 42. Now he’s in his 60s, and STILL hasn’t changed. He is still mean. Tigers do not change their stripes! RUN AWAY!
What if we look at it from a different perspective? I know that my ex has left a string of broken hearts behind him, many from short-term, high-intensity flings (I was one of his only serious relationships). He still has many exes and past flings as friends on FB and they would have seen all the photos of us, looking happy together, glowing, and having fun in various settings over a period of two years. When I spoke to a friend I hadn’t seen for a while about how mine and his relationship had really been (misery at regular intervals, for me at least) she was surprised and said we looked so happy and right for each other in the photos. I had to wonder, if my ex’s exes (if that makes sense) tortured themselves over seeing us together and knowing that we lived together, had been together for some time and seemed very happy. In all likelihood at least some of them thought ‘so, he’s changed, he gave her what he wouldn’t/couldn’t give me’ and felt like it was something about them that failed to bring out the best in him. If these women had indeed felt like that, it would have been such a pointless pity as what they could not see was the reality: how he made me feel like a disappointment, left me questioning my attractiveness, and made me believe I was a needy bore. I myself am absolutely dreading the day I hear that he has a new proper girlfriend (he had a fling with one of our mutual friends and that hurt more than enough as it is). However, if/when that happens I’ll need to keep in mind that even if I see happy photos of them that appearances can be deceiving and it’s very unlikely that he’s dealt with his issues enough to be emotionally available and empathetic to the next woman he gets involved with, considering he denied he had any issues and was in no way open to seeking help or even taking a look inside when we were together.