When we suppress and repress our own feelings, opinions, needs, expectations and desires, we become oversensitised to those of others and develop a pesky habit of taking ownership of their feelings and behaviour. It’s as if in silencing us and being on high alert, we think that we’re feeling their feelings and thinking their thoughts, causing us to anticipate and forecast doom while burdening us with ‘duties’.
When we take ownership of other people’s feelings and behaviour, we spend a lot of our time grappling with doubt, guilt and shame. We fear that we are being “selfish” and we also tend to engage with people who feel entitled to our compliance.
We see it as our responsibility to be and do things that make people feel better… even if it’s to our detriment and even if it means that we are preventing them from taking ownership of their feelings and behaviour… and even if it means that we are avoiding our own responsibilities.
As a result, when we perceive that we’re being requested or expected to do something that takes care of their needs, expectations, and desires, even if it isn’t 1) fair and reasonable and 2) our responsibility, we convince ourselves that to say no or leave them to it, would be “selfish”. We imagine that they’re feeling really bad or thinking whatever and whatever about us. In order to relieve that tension within us and keep up with this image of being what we think is unselfish, we do what they need/want/expect or do what we think that they need/want/expect.
We of course, end up feeling pretty bloody awful because it’s one thing if we are being and doing stuff because it’s truly who we are and without expectation of a reward of some kind, but invariably, we are not being ourselves and we also have an underlying expectation that we should be rewarded in some way, so lack of conflict, criticism, disappointment etc. Really, all we’re doing is operating under the misguided hope that one day somebody will say, “Wow! Isn’t _______ such an altruistic person? Did you know that they’ve thrown themselves under a bus thousands of times? I think it’s time that the universe cut him/her a break and let the good times roll.”
That’s not how it works.
Sometimes we get a tad set in our vision of how we think things ‘should’ be, so we think that because we’re being what we view as unselfish, that we should be cut some slack but we don’t take responsibility for the fact that we may be doing us wrong in the process. So many of us believe that being unselfish means ignoring the self.
Unselfish doesn’t mean little or no boundaries because the reality is, every person who has bad boundaries, on some level expects something in return. They do.
As grownups, our relationships need respect. This means that we cannot be talking about this whole selfish/unselfish malarkey in a dynamic where one party is expected to lack self-respect while the other enjoys what they see as their entitlements and benefits.
It’s not a bad thing to ask stuff of others but it’s a problem when a person feels entitled to compliance and seeks to benefit at the expense of others. It adds insult to injury when they’re met with a NO and then they squawk about people being “selfish”.
No person has a right to expect that because they need, expect, or desire something, that they should be able influence, control or even force others into obliging them. That is selfish.
Life is a journey and our purpose isn’t to go out of our way to create limitations and disadvantages for ourselves. Every time we burden ourselves with false obligations, we are living life to our detriment by using our time, efforts, energies, and emotions in unproductive, self-defeating ways. What we need to do in order to live happily and authentically is figure out and be who we truly are (life is on the job training for this) by healthily benefiting ourselves.
When we treat and regard ourselves with love, care, trust, and respect, this not only benefits us but it also benefits others because we engage in our relationships and various dynamics from a healthy place as opposed to what we can “get out” of people.
When we worry about being selfish, we have to ask:
Will me being and doing something to benefit me, harm others?
Example: Will me having healthier boundaries harm others? Will me having healthier boundaries have an adverse effect on others?
Note, the ‘inconvenience’ of a person not being able to benefit from where we are less than respectful towards us, is not ‘harm’…
If the negative effects of us doing something for somebody isn’t going to outweigh the benefits, we can go ahead… if we want to. It is our choice, not our obligation.
If we bust boundaries, whether it’s our own or those of others, that does cause harm.
If we avoid responsibility or prevent others from experiencing natural consequences, this also causes harm.
If we prevent ourselves from evolving or we try to get in the way of others evolving so that we can feel ‘safe’, that also causes harm.
When we think that we’re being selfish or somebody intimates or states this about us, we need to take a step back and ask ourselves: Is the person in question being and doing something to benefit themselves, that is harming me? What is it?
I hear from a lot of people who go No Contact for very valid, healthy reasons and yet they end up excessively worrying about the other person’s feelings while barely considering or taking responsibility for their own feelings and wellbeing. They feel guilty for opting out and not being able to take anymore. They think that they’re “selfish” for needing time to grieve.
It’s not going to harm the other party to break up or even go No Contact from a relationship and interaction that isn’t working. That’s not to say that they won’t be hurt but that’s not a reason to stay. If we respond to this guilt and start doing the whole keeping in touch to make their image stack up, sleeping together or whatever, they benefit and yeah, we experience the illusion of our ego benefiting but actually, this causes us a great deal of harm because we ignore the very real reasons about why we needed to step back and are also now exposing ourselves to further new pain.
It’s also not beneficial to keep placating a person’s ego just so that they don’t have to face up to the end of the relationship or even their actions. We should know – enough of us here at BR have been placated by people who do not want to “feel bad” about ending the relationship or how they have treated us and actually, it messes with our heads. It can be a vicious cycle to keep trying to appease people in order to make ourselves feel better. We need to learn how to do the right, healthier thing by us and take command of us feeling better.
There are always going to be people out there who are OK with being selfish and all we can do is do our best to stay out of their way and to engage with like-minded folk.
Be suspicious of anybody who has a problem with you wanting to evolve through increasing self-knowledge, self-awareness, and self-love. Boundaried people; people who take responsibility for themselves and want to evolve and see those they love and care about evolve, don’t bandy around the term “selfish” or try to guilt others into compliance. If you have an overall pattern of being kind and generous, somebody who respects you, will respect that you have the right to make choices for you when you need to (as do they for themselves), and will trust in you and your relationship rather than focusing on any so-called inconvenience.
Your thoughts?
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Wow! Perfect timing! Just been through something with an on/off lover where it’s dawned on me he avoids accepting blame for things, and makes it out to be someone else’s fault. I’ve been doing way too much to please him, in the hope of things progressing between us. Time to practice asserting myself more and see what effect it has on him.
I think this is all summed up very well. Its important for me to remember these things. While it has become more natural for my first mind to now think like this I still have moments when I have to remind myself of things like this ESPECIALLY when I’ve had a series of challenging experiences. I try to remind myself of the medium to long term benefits of things and not short term. I also accept the fact people who want to treat us well will. Period. I feel better and freer. This website has been a wonderful tool for me. I’m so appreciative to have understanding here and to be understood.
One of the first things I learned in therapy was that when someone tells us ‘You’re being selfish/insensitive/uncaring/insert derogatory remark of your choice here’ what they are saying in effect is ‘You’re not doing what I want you to do’.
The derogatory term used can be instructive; chances are, it probably does apply to one person in the exchange. Just not the person who’s being accused of it.
Nutbrownhare,
Your assessment is correct. That’s why I wasn’t as mad with EUM because I was trying to control the uncontrollable. However, sometimes the truth is the truth. Some people are just selfish to the core! The problem is once you’ve established that their behavior is not just you wanting to control the outcome, but that they are just selfish period, you need to opt out.
The derogatory term can also include comments such as, “You’re being TOO sensitive.”
Just speaking from personal experience here.
Regardless of how it’s “couched”, the message that you are intended to receive is that it’s NOT okay to be you.
I was completely and utterly immersed in that climate when I was a child . . . lo, those many moons ago.
My relationship with both my mother and father was “parentified” to such an extent that I was launched into adulthood without any awareness of the fact that I even HAD rights to my own personal needs and boundaries.
Fast forward through years of therapy, the multiplicity of life’s experiences and the occasional ill-advised choices that went along with being so emotionally hobbled . . . and I’ve discovered that it can all be distilled down into this approach :
1) First of all, I have had to really work hard to let go of my worries about what other people think of me. It gets much easier with practice.
2) Once the filter of THAT distraction has been neutralized, I now rely pretty much exclusively on my “gut”. I have a very good friend who refers to the feeling of being on “red alert” as “icky”. ( lol ) Not terribly scientific, but it works for me. Truth be told, it’s probably one of the many faces of anxiety.
3) Any time that I start to feel “icky”, ( and our bodies will never lie to us ) I have learned that I have to step back . . . breathe . . . and take a moment or two to check in with myself.
From where does this “icky” feeling spring ?
What is going on in my life that has caused it ?
4) Once I get “clear” on what my body is trying to tell me, then I will move mountains, if I have to, to address the source of that feeling. Procrastinating tends to only make it worse. Our bodies also know how to turn up the volume, believe me.
5) I have learned to associate that “icky” feeling with situations where my boundaries are under attack . . . or where I find myself in a situation where it’s not okay to just be who I am.
People will bitch and squawk when they realize that your compliance is no longer guaranteed. But I’ve also learned to pay attention to their reactions . . . for they tell me more about the OTHER person than perhaps they even realize !
Fantastic, Catherine!!! I follow a similar approach. You’re right, your gut never lies. So important to pay attention to it even when you’re tempted not to.
People’s reaction/response to your boundaries tells you everything you need to know about how healthy your relationship is – it’s a great barometer!
So true!
“No person has a right to expect that because they need, expect, or desire something, that they should be able influence, control or even force others into obliging them. That is selfish.”
First time commenter. Love the site. The above quote is a fine line I believe. I spent 20 years being told I was selfish and demanding by my husband and asking less and less of him because of it. Yes, I had expectations. No I couldn’t force him to do anything. I expected him to interact with his family at the dinner table = SELFISH. I expected him to want to spend time with our children=SELFISH. I expected him to speak to us with respect=SELFISH. There wasn’t a lot that I wanted, needed or expected as a wife or parent from him that wasn’t selfish or demanding. I did more and more, he did less and less until the only thing he contributed was his wage. Why bother? Now I have expectations, now I will be selfish. If there is something in a relationship I need – I won’t go without it for fear of being called selfish. I don’t demand it – I state it and if it isn’t given then my choice is clear. I either have to move on or he will see my need as valid and rise to the occasion. I have no problem meeting others needs if they particular quirks etc. that are no skin off my nose and don’t violate my morals or values. Over my marriage I learned how to be giving, compliant and UNselfish by default even though the whole time I felt like the most awful, needy, selfish, demanding wife in the world because that is what I was told I was. Now, of course, I see I was trained very well. Now, I am more selfish than I have ever been and even then still pretty compliant.
Working things out with another adult(a man) who also has faults, traits, quirks, scars is not easy. What makes it easy is both people having self awareness of them and also being willing to work through it all from the beginning with the end goal of both of us getting what we need and desire out of the relationship. Both have expectations of the other. And both of us have the awareness that if the other becomes unwilling to adapt and grow towards each other, than we will move on. I guess you could say we are both selfish and have expectations but in a way that is mutually beneficial if we want to build something we both can live with. So far, this is working. We both give, we both take. What we get we are grateful for and in turn give more. We both appreciate the effort the other is making.
Love this website. I have learned a lot here.
be happy he contributed a wage, some guys don’t even do that.
Yes, I’m aware some have it worse. Your post is pretty dismissive of a 20 year emotionally, verbally and physically abusive marriage. But again, thank you for putting me in my place and reminding me that of course I should be happy about my marriage and the scars it left in my children and I and the poverty we were left in after I could take no more of his abuse, and even his wage wasn’t enough for me to keep myself and my children in that atmosphere. Take Care.
Bronze,
My heart aches for YOU. Like you I have taken a risks to post about my PAIN. Thank you for sharing and being open. You were not selfish. You are not wrong for wanting respect and it is not selfish to expect a conversation at the dinner table. These are common things everybody wants and expects.
Here is a big hug from me. You know what you need and you have every right to ask for it in a relationship. I hope you find love and happiness.
When we suppress and repress our own feelings, opinions, needs, expectations and desires, we become oversensitised to those of others and develop a pesky habit of taking ownership of their feelings and behaviour.
I have been having some difficulties with my son who is turning an important birthday this week. It is important for me to give him a small present to celebrate him and this important occasion. Presents and celebrations were important in my family and I cared a lot about what people wanted and would like. As an adult he doesn’t like presents – giving or taking and has been very dismissive to me which I found hurtful. Gifts from my ex were most often careless and often thoughtless and some times I didn’t get gifts at all. Right now being authentic and standing up for myself is something I am working on but his rejection has placed me back in the self-blame, confusion and bewilderment camp…SO familiar from my marriage. I realize that I feel my son bullies me emotionally because I often can’t “get out from under” his “telling me what to do” and loud talking (he is also a lawyer). He has not had a long term intimate relationship for years and I am thinking how he might treat a young woman in this circumstance. People who love each other naturally love to give gifts – of any sort. It saddens me that I never got a gift I cherished from my ex. I also feel sad that my son perhaps adopted dynamics in the family that I didn’t see the consequences of ..for him. Anyway, this came at the exact right time. I want to have expectations, desires, values etc and be honest about them, even with my grown kids.
Espressso,
I hate to say it, but you are projecting your feelings about gift giving onto your son. You said he doesn’t like the whole gift giving thing so I’m not sure why you are upset! He told you, but because you have personal feelings about this your upset that he doesn’t feel like you do. If anything you should be happy that he doesn’t want anything! With all the entitlement adults out here! You need to take your feelings out of this and let your adult son enjoy his day. He may or may not end up like your ex, but you have no control over this so, let it go!
Espresso, don’t give him any gift. And I bet the person who has the most angst over that is YOU.
You want to be seen as “giving and caring” so you are doing things that make YOU feel like you are “giving and caring”. But if you were to listen to what your son is saying, either in words or action or non-action, he is not moved emotionally by gifts. He doesn’t want a gift.
You’re trying to turn him into the son you wish he was. Someone who is delighted by your thoughtfulness. But that is not who he is. You need to let him be who he is.
And that is scary because then you have to accept that you are alone in your need to be cherished by the people around you. These people do not speak your love language. And you can’t turn them into people who do. So….that means finding other people who do cherish you in the ways that you want to be cherished.
And you can have expectations and desires, but that does not mean he has to live up to them or fulfill them. It does mean you have to find other people who are more aligned with what YOU want. You need to separate yourself from those who do not meet your requirements. Don’t think that these people not giving you what you want means what you want is wrong. It means they are the wrong people for your needs.
“I realize that I feel my son bullies me emotionally because I often can’t “get out from under” his “telling me what to do” and loud talking (he is also a lawyer).”
Do you feel intimidated by your son? Is his anger (loud voice, etc.) a signal for you to back down? If so, you might be so conflict avoident that you are allowing yourself to be controlled by him, his anger (voice level, telling you what to do).
Been there, done that! I was raised to be a people-pleasing compliant and was petrified of confrontation. I tried the kill ’em with kindness approach in hopes it would appease them and they would change their ways. It does not work!
Have you ever told him that his loud talking and telling you what to do bothers you? If not, you are sending him the signal that what he is doing is okay. He doesn’t see it as a problem…’casue it’s not for HIM.
“I want to have expectations, desires, values etc and be honest about them, even with my grown kids.”
That’s great. Go for it! You deserve it. They might not like it initially, especially if they are used to you catering to them or always putting them first. But remember, they have their limits too and that respect needs to flow both ways!
“People who love each other naturally love to give gifts – of any sort.” I don’t believe that’s true. You may love to give gifts to show someone you love them, but that does not mean that everybody else does. Some people show their love by doing things for you – acts of service, or other ways.
“As an adult he doesn’t like presents – giving or taking and has been very dismissive to me which I found hurtful.”
He has told you something about himself. He set a limit (boundary) and you feel hurt by it. Unfortunately, that’s for you to feel and sort out. I understand. I’m a mom. I’m a mom that loves to give gifts! 🙂
What about asking him if here’s another way that he would find a meaningful way to “celebrate” this birthday? A nice dinner together, a concert, bungee jumping (kidding, you get the picture :)). He might tell you that he doesn’t want to celebrate it at all. That’s his choice – you get to choose how you respond to that information.
To be honest with them, you first have to be honest with yourself. You also have to be willing to risk feeling lots of things, many of which will be very uncomfortable.
Hope this helps. I’ve been in a somewhat similar situation, so I do empathize with you.
“People who love each other naturally love to give gifts – of any sort.”
I have to agree that this one baffled me. It goes to show you how completely convinced we are that because we think one way, everyone else does too. I don’t like gifts, nor do I like giving them. I will, however, I much prefer people give me gifts of honesty, gifts of respect, gifts of listening. You name it. I hardly ever remember anyone’s birthday, or even my own. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest if no one gives me a gift (which is good because hardly anyone ever does). What I like is a friend who is there for me throughout the year, whether it’s thinking to invite me over occasionally, getting on the phone for a chat, answering my emails in a timely manner, or just asking how I am, etc. I would much prefer that from my parents too than any gift (though with them I don’t get that either- ha). Maybe your son feels like you are trying to give him physical gifts rather than emotional ones? I don’t know. But you are definitely projecting. Not everyone likes gift giving or receiving, but does enjoy the more giving emotional acts of being there for someone.
Espresso, I will also add to this and say – from someone that struggles with an emotionally demanding parent – please dont give your son gifts. Its very likely that he sees a gift as an emotional demand – after all you expect him to be excited, maybe even grateful. He might also feel (just projecting here!) that his displays of emotion are being judged and he has decided he doesnt want to play that game anymore. How he treats his mother is not necessarily related to how he might treat a partner.
I find my mother to be emotionally demanding – I mean she demands emotions. I was never happy enough for her. Sadness was an indictment of her parenting skills. Criticism was something she couldn’t stand though she could dole it out. Depression – forgeddaboutit! How dare I be depressed! That was just selfish. She also demanded gratitude. Her gifts came with the reminder that I was loved – hey, did you hear me? I’m doing this because I love you. Look.at.me.I.love.you.are.you.seeing.that. Also why aren’t you grateful.
I am not a mother. But I have been a child. Dont make these gifts about you. If you must gift, make it normal, simple, chocolate maybe. By giving an overly thoughtful gift you’re setting up reciprocity. AND your gift seems to be not a fully heartfelt gift – it is gift partly borne of resentment on both sides. Thats not a gift.
The real gift he wants – a gift of being heard, and accepted. For his desires as an adult to be understood. For YOU to be PRESENT (a present, see!).
[please note; no doubt he’s not a paragon of virtue. We all have our crap. But from what you’re saying I see a dynamic that I have heard from my friends too, and seems to be especially from mothers to children. You dont understand him and instead of just accepting what you dont understand, you’re trying to change him, and you are demanding emotional displays that you know you will not get. Thereby you are also setting yourself up for pain and failure. Please provide yourself the understanding and love that you are expecting from a son that has so far proven unable to provide it].
Suki, I concur – my mother does this to me – not just with gifts but with anything she ‘gives’ in reality it is never given unconditionally, though its claimed it is/she believes it is – she expects – and when she doesn’t get what she expects and gets the truth she doesn’t want to hear – basically that we do not have the relationship she pretends that we have ie that she actually listens to my needs and validates them, whilst simultaneously listening to her real needs and find ways to satisfy them without breaking my boundaries.
Sad because there is no gift in the world she could ever buy me that will make up for her breaking my boundaries over and over again – watch out Expresso – YOUR behaviour just may be the behaviour that is causing the problem in the first place… there is some good news – it is the only behaviour you can actually change and do something about anyway.
“We need to learn how to do the right, healthier thing by us and take command of us feeling better…If you have an overall pattern of being kind and generous, somebody who respects you, will respect that you have the right to make choices for you when you need to (as do they for themselves), and will trust in you and your relationship rather than focusing on any so-called inconvenience”
Exactly and thank you Natalie for another insightful article. Nowadays I ask myself one question before I comply to a request or offer my help to others: “Am I doing this because I want to or is it because I am hoping they will like me better?” If the answer is because of the latter, I say no or I don’t offer my help. I have no more qualms about saying no if saying yes causes me stress, regrets and self devaluation. The people who care for me, still do even after hearing no. As a former people pleaser, I have to keep myself from falling into old patterns while being mindful not becoming a scrooge. After all there’s pleasure in helping and being kind and generous with others.
truthinclarity, I’m in a similar place. I’ve found that if I’m going to feel resentful about doing it, that that is my cue to say no.
Great question thank you.
“Life is a journey and our purpose isn’t to go out of our way to create limitations and disadvantages for ourselves. Every time we burden ourselves with false obligations, we are living life to our detriment by using our time, efforts, energies, and emotions in unproductive, self-defeating ways. “
So aptly put! Story. Of. My. Life. And I do have a lifelong tendency of “engaging with people who feel entitled to my compliance”! I have belatedly realised that the hellscape I have made it my life’s mission to immerse myself in has given me a pretty iron-clad and ever-ready excuse for a lifetime of failing.
Brenda K, Yes, yes, yes!!
“So aptly put! Story. Of. My. Life. And I do have a lifelong tendency of “engaging with people who feel entitled to my compliance”! I have belatedly realised that the hellscape I have made it my life’s mission to immerse myself in has given me a pretty iron-clad and ever-ready excuse for a lifetime of failing.”
We set ourselves up for failure – sabotaging ourselves repeatedly. I look back now and I am so sad about all of the lost time, opportunities, happiness, love, support, self-respect, etc.. I’m so disappointed with myself.
Oh goodness, tell me about it! *facedesk* As soon as I got my abusive husband out of the house (I am presently in the process of working through the divorce papers and scrambling the funding together to file it), the next thing I took on was my lifelong habit of being perpetually overcommitted. I realise that may well have its origin in a lifetime of trying to buy forgiveness for the fact that I exist due to having grown up in an environment where it was not okay to be me, by agreeing (however grudgingly) to everything every Tom, Dick and Harry on the planet asks or tells me to do. I too was raised to be an unhappy and resentful but compliant hoop-jumper and a pathological conflict/confrontation/intimacy avoider (“avoidant-attached” much?).
“I too was raised to be an unhappy and resentful but compliant hoop-jumper and a pathological conflict/confrontation/intimacy avoider (“avoidant-attached” much?).”
It took me years, and I mean YEARS, to recognize I was feeling resentful about it. I was so conditioned not to recognize/feel my own feelings that they didn’t surface. At least not that I was aware of. I was taught to do it with a smile. Ugh.
I do not want to let go. I am experiencing incredible loss in other areas of my life – I want to keep trying regardless of safety, boundaries, respect.
Your post alarmed me Carrots. Staying involved with someone who costs your safety, boundaries and respect will result in very serious losses – losses to your self-esteem, your peace of mind, your confidence, your health, your dignity, your integrity… I could go on and on. It will NOT help you cope with whatever else is going on in your life. You sound like you don’t need more losses. But you do need to get in touch with your own inner strength, which is probably more powerful than you realize.
I agree with Wiser. ILC, it sounds like you are desperate to avoid the pain of the multiple losses, which is understandable and human. It sounds like, on some level, you recognize that this is what you’re doing. Deciding to “keep trying” in the face of what you know isn’t there (“safety, boundaries, respect”) allows you to delay feeling the full effect of loss – but it also delays you getting to the other side of it, which is healthier in the long run. I’m sorry for what you’re going through and I can relate to this feeling of wanting to delay the inevitable. We are both utterly human for it! ::hugs::
oh dear Carrots, I almost lost my home in a huge forest fire, I had an ongoing battle with my county to save my water aquifer from Ecoli after they lied to the community about a development, my neighbor killed two 500 year old trees on my property by not removing pine beetle killed trees on his, my other neighbor committed insurance fraud after the fire and tried to steal my land so I had to take her to court, I broke my foot and got cancer so I had to quit my job- and I left my Ex of ten years. yea, it all hurt, all of it, yet here I am almost a year away… and the thing I am most relieved about its I had the courage to leave that chopper, that psychologically abusive and entitled man. Sure I still think about him, but less and less, and have so much hope for the future because I went through the terrible time of cutting him out of my life completely.
I love carrots – you are stronger than you think and can probably see things in the dark regardless – if your name is anything to go by – so why not act on what you see?
What have you done on this earth that is worthy of this pain? Did you murder someone? If not why do you believe you deserve to effectively kill yourself – which is what you do when you suppress your needs and feelings by not acting on them safely? This creates internal stress you and others are less able to see at the time, which erupts in your life, where ever it can – everytime. You will never win this way.
You already have pain elsewhere in your life – DO NOT add to it by accepting this. Make a plan to get what you really see you need now and act on it – for YOUR life’s sake.
As others describe above – it is not easy – but when you come out the other side – my word you KNOW you did the right thing and would leave again every-time – if not earlier. I have read some truly harrowing posts on BR here and I can honestly say I never read a post that said I wish I never left……………. or……….. I didn’t leave and it got better…………… but I’ve read lots that say I wish I left years ago/ wish I knew to leave years ago etc…. DO NOT DELAY. BE SAFE AND HAPPY. I wish for you lots of carrots to help get you on your way to being safe, happy and loved for who you are.
Time and time again, you blow me away with your wisdom. Thanks for doing what you do, Natalie!
Last Sept, 8 months ago, I made a request for a performance of a difficult musical piece to someone who I’ve since recognized is narcissist. I have had some hard times with this person and have had no contact since January except the couple of times he has stood directly in front of me and then it has been a polite return greeting only.
This past weekend he included this piece in his recital plus 2 other things we had discussed. I did not approach him after the recital. The performance was spectacular and everyone attending thought so too. I literally had tears because of the beauty and was left speechless after the performance.
I’m hoping a note (short) will be appropriate. Then I don’t have to risk seeing him in person. I guess it just shows us what lengths a narcissist will go to keep the target around. I do not want to be that person but I so appreciated that performance. Thoughts?
Run in the opposite direction.
I agree with Blake. Cherish what the performance meant to you and appreciate it for what it was. The person I am recovering from is also an artist and I appreciate his work, value the joy it brings to world. But that doesn’t mean that engaging with him personally is wise or healthy for me to do. Some folks bring beauty into the world via their work rather than their personality/ability to love. It was hard for me to comprehend that someone so capable of making something so amazing wasn’t reflecting something equally valuable in their hearts (that I could have access to, anyway). I understand the impulse to reach out – my approach has been: appreciate the work for what it is and allow it to remain pure by forgoing the note.
Agree completely.
That is what I am going through now: the final stages of extricating myself from a marriage to my artistic partner of 17 years because he is an abusive, drug-addled nut case. I had the same issue: how. on. earth. can someone who creates something so beautiful and inspiring treat other people — particularly people he professes to love — so poorly, AND THINK IT’S OKAY??!!! T1, please stay no-contact. No matter how we feel about them, these types will only suck our vital energy away and destroy our souls.
Why does he think he can get away with behaving this way? Because he presumes you will NOT do the same as he does – which is – act whatever your true feelings dictate.
Narcissists are a bit of a problem because as soon as you do, do what they perceive as out of character – act on your true feelings – they will go nuts to defend their place/state in the world. Best thing is to have nothing to do with them and never invite them in via anything – work, romance, need for beauty in your life etc….
You have broken this so the next best thing is to get away as soon as you can (while you contact/are around them, expect pain from them – emotionally, verbally, physically – like water racing to get into the porous ground) and NEVER EVER go back – no excuses.
There is no winning with a narcissist – no matter how wise your counsel is – the only way for you to win – is on your own = remove yourself from any relationship with them entirely. That has been the only thing to work in my experience.
Of course his work is extremely beautiful – you and others, gave him the ego stroke to make it so in the first place. There are others who make more and less beautiful work who don’t abuse at the same time – ask them instead without fail. Otherwise its near saying ‘Hitler was a horrible man but he was sooooo motivational’…
I think what this boils down to is projection. The person that is labeling their partner as selfish is in fact just projecting their own selfishness onto them. This is some classic psychology stuff here and it makes me sick. Even if you KNOW how the dynamics of this works, you can STILL be a victim to it because the way in which it is executed is so subtle and stealthily that you may not even recognize it as it happens. Usually you’re caught up with emotions in the moment anyway which blinds you from taking a step back and having time to properly process what is actually going on. That is what happened to me with my exEUW. She had me so whipped up in an emotional storm that I literally had zero time to even think properly. This same tactic was used to make me feel selfish, needy, “clingy”, that I was asking too much and that I was being “unhealthy” because of my strong feelings for her (love). It really makes me sick to think about. My best advice to you all is to always have a little thought process going on in your mind that is LOOKING for these nefarious things ALWAYS, no matter WHAT else is going on, NEVER let that little thought process stop.
Blake,
I agree somewhat, I don’t always think the EUM/EUW are projecting. I think many times they know your not selfish otherwise you would never put up with them! What I think is when they are being selfish they justify their behavior as them looking out for themselves and wanting to make themselves happy. They see you as getting in the way of that happiness with your so called “neediness”. Believe me if you where as selfish as them, you probably wouldn’t give them the time of day! Let’s face it, they can’t let that happen!!
Blake,
There is a book called ‘He’s scared she’s scared’ that look at why this occurs. They break it down into active and passive EU and what it looks like in both sexes.
The dynamic you posted about the euXW reminded me of things I read in that book.
Yep another tactic is to confuse you – answer any question of yours or comment relating to any crime you accuse them, with either an accusation from themselves or something that makes absolutely no sense whats so ever – projection on you can be confusing also – then you focus on defending yourself and leave them alone rather than focusing on defending yourself as you were before.
I use daily writing and connecting with myself regularly in order to hear myself loud and clear and pick up every sign.
Thanks for this! I have passed it onto a friend in need!
I don’t even know where to begin. I have this very problem with my 30 year old son. I’m so overwhelmed by him and his self-created problems that I don’t know what to do to help myself.
Dcd, the best thing you can do for both of you is to stay out of his life. The only reason to get involved is if he is abusing a child or an animal and they need your protection.
Anything else in his life will have to be fixed by him.
Hi Natalie,
Haven’t been here in a few years but wanted to let you and any BR old-timers know that I just got engaged. That doesn’t mean everything or guarantee anything – life is far more than a long term relationship and assclowns get engaged all the time! But I’m engaged to a kind-hearted, super funny, intelligent, talented, diligent, responsible and loving guy. Again, maybe not mindblowing – there are loads of good guys out there. But for me, with my experiences of ACs, starting with my Dad and ending with propose-and-disappear guy (the fallout of which brought me here), it’s taken me a good few years and a lot of self-discipline, humour and small, good choices to get to a state where I would let myself build a very calm, loving and happy-making home with someone. I’m proud of that. Your site was a big part of that (ongoing) process, particularly learning adult boundaries, sustainable values, getting off the drama smack, and just having the validation and support you provided while my head was spinning and my heart was full of fear, sadness and anger. Thank you! xx
Congrats Elle! Your post gives me hope!
Can you share any tips on what small steps you made to get to a better place?
Popped a list on here, figuringitout but was on phone and individual reply function doesn’t work.
(it’s below)
Elle,
Congrats on your engagement. After all of your hurt and pain it must feel good to be engaged. I really have a question for you. Once you had someone propose and disappear. I had someone I loved propose and then I found out he was cheating on me.
How did you work thru the healing process when someone proposed and disappeared? How were you able to trust again. This recently happened to me. I am trying to heal. I just wanted to know if you could share how you got over the hurt. Thanks.
MJ,
I’ve written a list of things that helped (below), but the whole experience was deeply painful and, without some pre-existing self-esteem and natural determination, it could have sent me quite mad. Also, I was fortunate to have had two healthy romantic relationships before this happened. Remembering the kindness and trust there helped. I too focused on the people around me, most of whom are in trusting and happy relationships.
For a year after, I sought out EUMs, just for fun and to feel better (more in control and powerfully attractive). But I realised that this was all part of some dramatic idea that I was somehow destined for a rubbish relationship, an idea that had only really occurred to me after the propose-and-flee caper. I don’t know if it involved cheating, but it involved a whole lot of other factors that meant I was without a house and by myself in a strange country. Getting a home, a good job, a more stable life, my own life, these things helped. These things meant I could look at a man and not worry as much if they left – and of course without this worry, life is sweeter anyway.
One thing that immensely helped: I stopped telling the story as my story or my first story. This is the first time I’ve written about this in a few years and it only vaguely hurts, the memory of hurt more than anything real. Your story, with this guy who wronged you, is not the only thing about you either. You were a lot more before, you were even more during, and you are now far more than this. You know when survivors on TV say “I refuse to be defined by this [traumatic] story” and it seems heroic but sort of high-minded or distant or just not really appropriate to your matter of the heart? Well, it actually is like that. It is that serious. But don’t make this thing that happened your identity.
Looking back, I was lucky because I never or rarely felt worthless. Somehow, thank goodness, I had some very strong sense that by his actions he self-selected out of being someone I’d want to be around, let alone married to (and I hope you feel that too). It FELT awful and sad (and sometimes these feelings tricked me into thinking we were bonded more than ever), but I never THOUGHT that I deserved that treatment or that I caused that treatment or that somehow he was more worthy than me or that it would be a good idea to reunite. NO WAY! Alongside the pain and mind-boggling confusion, I always held onto the idea that he was a flawed and despicable person, and not good for me.
The harder part was getting to trusting myself after making such a bad series of decisions and trusting that if you do, you’ll stop making them earlier or you’ll respond better. Because that’s what trusting others is about, really, it’s about backing yourself. That comes with practising integrity (following your values), healthy boundaries (as per BR!) and compassion. You’ll get there. Start with small things, like just sitting with friends and not thinking about it for a while. You just had a tornado rip through town. You’re not the tornado. Pick up your things and gently but determinedly move on.
Elle,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. You are right this does not define me. I have so many wonderful things going on in my life. The PAIN right now is stopping me from enjoying anything. One step at a time. I will get there. I want to meet new friends. I spent ALL of my time with him.
Your advice is something that I thought about. As I meet new friends I will not discuss this. I want to open a new chapter with new friends. This will be a thing of the past. I don’t want to rehash this story. In fact, I am reframing this story. A man made a commitment he knew he couldn’t keep. I refuse to let that destroy my WORLD. I am going to create a NEW LIFE for myself.
I want to feel like a real human again. My daily homework is just to keep moving forward. I am reading and posting here. I have to rebuild a new LIFE.
Thank you Elle.
Hi Mary Jane,
I don’t know if you have ever heard of meetup.com, but it is a social website where you can meet people in your neighborhood with share interests. They have every imaginable social clubs, you can even start your own. It’s a wonderful way to get out, enjoy your life and maybe make a few good friends.
Hi Truthinclarity,
Thank you so much for this suggestion. I pulled up local listings in my area. I am going to spend some time looking these over on the weekends. Thank you! They look good. I need to get out my house. I m going to pull out a calendar and make plans to get out. Staying in gives me way too much time to THINK. Time to get up and MOVE ON.
Hi MJ,
Just want to say that I am glad to be some comfort. I can recognise that pain and loneliness. I remember it. I don’t feel it anymore, but I remember it, and the crying in the bath and the hollowed out confusion and anxiety. It was dreadful.
You are doing the right thing, saving yourself. You do need to build a new life, new friends, new habits (keep up with exercise and meditation – they might take a month or two to get your brain going), go to therapy or the GP if you need to (a therapist wasn’t especially useful for me in my case, but had been for another traumatic experience) and make sure you’re doing a job that has real satisfaction for you (even if you can’t thoroughly experience that right now).
I can almost promise you that at some point you will see that you were not actually in a loving, beautiful relationship. Something in you probably sensed something all along, and maybe even didn’t like the guy. My mini-theory is that awesome sex/physical connection is our way of compensating for or somehow purging that knowledge. ACs and EUs are almost always characterised by mind-blowing sex.
I am not saying this to suggest you ought to have known – why would you suspect someone would betray you so deeply and lie about it (for all the simple reasons your hairdresser suggested: he wanted the pleasure and thought he could get away with it!)? I am suggesting that at some point you won’t be as clouded by pain and attachment and you’ll know, with or without a new man, that this guy was just not a good enough person and certainly wasn’t the guy for you; you’ll even be relieved that he was caught out before your wedding. He isn’t worthy of you, which I suspect you know but haven’t yet let your heart believe.
In the many months post my heartbreak, I wanted others to validate my ex’s behaviour as bad – which people duly did, it was objectively cruel and careless (to end a proposal by simply leaving and then sending an email) – but what really helped (and this ties to the selfishness/unselfishness topic) was trusting my assessment of the situation and not feeling like I was being overly harsh or somehow, on some level, I could have done something to change what happened. Well, there were things I could have done to change what happened, but they required things that weren’t available for me at the time: knowing better, having a healthier and more grounded life (which was not entirely possible then) and being prepared to listen to something in me that knew those love chemicals weren’t the good ones, but the danger ones (I come from a background where I learnt to associate threats/danger as normal)! In my case, I knew that he wasn’t treating me well, but as BR posts confirmed, I was focused on the first-6-months guy, not the guy that was telling me in all sorts of ways that I was disgusting, unlikable and unattractive. Your situation might be entirely different there – but I still think that one day you’ll see this relationship as a pale sort of love and that will be a reliving rather than a saddening thing.
Anyway, it took a long time and, like you, somedays it was just about doing something small that others had told me would be good for me, and hanging on/ trusting the process. Overall, I used the situation (and less him, really worked on not thinking about him), as a push off to better things. It has been really useful in an oddly scientific way. Keep going, go with this process.
Best Wishes
Hi Elle,
I so appreciate you offering me advice. Thank You. I honestly never sensed that anything was going on until it was too late. He was really good at deceiving me. This guy was into me in every sense of the way.
He was there to help solve problems. He was my best friend. We talked on the phone every day for hours. He helped out in so many ways. When I found out he was checking into a hotel and sleeping with someone else I was SHOCKED. I wish I knew how long he was done this. He wasn’t giving me crumbs. He had to go to the hotel after 10 when he said good night MJ I love you.
Four or six weeks before I found out he was cheating. I kept thinking that it was so important to make new friends and it was a mistake to center my world around him.
When I found out he was cheating. He turned ice COLD on me. He acted like he never knew me. I never had an opportunity to ask him Y. Next time, I will be more alert. I trusted him fully. He was registered on dating sites. I simply had no idea. He never told me he was unhappy. We had dates during the week and spent weekends together. There were no arguments.
Now I can say he obviously wasn’t happy with me. It hurts to say it because I never saw it reflected in how he treated me and he never said it. But he was checked into a hotel-so the guy was in misery. All he had to say was that he wanted OUT. He could have acted like a man about it.
After the engagement was broken other people told me they didn’t like him but they never voiced that to me before. I think they were just closing ranks around me to offer support. I know now he is not a stand up guy. He broke my Heart. I am sure you know how humiliating it is to have to tell people your engagement has been called off- the man who said he wanted to spend his life with me is in bed with someone else. The betrayal takes me to all time lows. I am trying and this forum is helping. I am trying to rebuild. I already have set up some trips. I need to get away. I am plotting out my next steps.
I appreciate the note TODAY. Today was one of the bad days. I am trying. One step at time. I am going to be fine is a phrase I repeat daily for comfort.
Hi Elle. I believe you were on this site a lot when I first found it about three or four years ago. I was a mess and you were one of the kind people who responded to my comments and gave me hope. I changed my name after fear of my ex reading my posts, so you won’t recognize the handle Selkie, but I do remember you. Congratulations on getting engaged! I’m so glad to hear your hard work paid off and it inspires me and reminds me that things can work out in life, even after the bottom has dropped out. Thank you for the update and the positive reminder to keep trying to be our best.
Thanks Selkie and, yes, that was me 3-4 years ago, probably only half a stroke ahead of you in this. The engagement is a lovely thing. It’s not everything – I think we overplay it in society, particularly for women (some of my women friends are now visibly more comfortable around me now that I am engaged!) – but it has been a very calming and positive symbol and commitment within my relationship. And I have a good man – someone who is kind, smart, handsome, and talented. I say this because broken-hearted women can rush to find a man too soon and end up with someone who is not their dearest pal-love, but someone they know won’t hurt them. I can understand this, I was with a guy like this for a while post-AC largely for that reason, but you can actually get back to meeting the guy you know is a good, compatible match for you. If it needs to be said, neither one of us is perfect – and we’ve had to adjust to certain behaviour that is weird and sometimes rather annoying, but it’s all with firm kindness. Keep going, yes, it’s hard work but it does pay off – not always or only in relationships. Actually, I think the relationship came from me sorting out and developing better habits in the rest of my life – and taking up a creative hobby quite seriously (which is where we met). Thanks for replying. Nice to see the continuity on BR. 🙂
Hi Elle,
Thank you for sharing your positive message here and below. I agree NC is key, and I’ve also distanced myself from certain people, although I sometimes wonder if I’m the jerk and need to just “act like I’m totally fine”. I know I am not there yet, so it’s easier to stay away from friends in order to avoid my own selfish needs (to work through this mess) right now. It’s also lonely.
You listed some great strategies. Thank you!
Hi Say Something,
Have you tried doing the unsent letters? Today, I sat and wrote a letter that will never be sent. It is my way to express what I feel. Venting helps some. Just wanted to know if you tried this. Natalie talks about it.
Yes MJ,
I have written both the unsent and sent letter. Maybe this weekend I’ll write another, as it’s been a few weeks. How did you meet and what was your timeline? I know you thought you knew him well. Did you keep the ring? I’ve also tried looking ahead/ looking backwards. Where do I want to be and now how will I get there. It feels like deleting your hopes and dreams and coming up with new ones. I know I don’t want to be alone. I’ve spent years trying it out. And once again another wedding invite awaits my reply of “1” or “0”. Well, here’s to a positive, baby-stepping weekend. May we all experience at least one positive thing!
Good morning Say Something,
I am so glad you are here and we can discuss our situation together. This forum is wonderful for helping with the healing process. I wish neither of us were in this PAIN, but this is something we have in common. I need to get my thoughts out today.
I was out running this morning and this man ahead of me kept turning around constantly to see where I was. It was actually frustrating me a little. In that moment I thought- Man focus on your run not where I am. Then I related this to my own LIFE. Now, I need to focus 100% on ME not on him he is GONE. I have to ACCEPT it. I need to heal my broken heart. Starting today, I am going to try like hell not to focus on HIM. He is some place loving OTHER women. He is on tons of dating sites looking high and low for a decent woman like ME. Someone told me that he he is looking for someone like me. I know he regrets what he did. He lied to me about where he was that night because he wanted to save our relationship. He realized he made a BIG mistake. I had to end the relationship. The trust was destroyed. No turning back. I was angry. I only regret not asking him him Y. Man Y did you do this to me? My hair stylist put it really simple to me. He didn’t think you would catch him. He didn’t want to end the relationship. He was just being a dirty dog. Her heart is not tied up into this. But that explanation makes sense. Some men play these dirty games. Some men don’t really want just one woman they want many women. I wish I had known this. Years of time invested in him. My ego is wounded by his actions. We had a beautiful thing. I thought we did.
I am taking myself thru some MAJOR pain. Y? Cause I keep sitting here feeling HURT that he would throw away what I thought was BEAUTIFUL. HE did it by cheating. I cant help but think the woman he was cheating with must be a bad (great qualities-like super woman) B. I hope they had fun together. He has never called me and I haven’t called him. On days I have thought about calling to ask Y I stop myself. I just think we need to leave each other alone and MOVE ON. Some mornings I just want to text him this simple text- Y?
I am back here dazed trying to figure out how he banged me over the head. STUCK. HURT. I am not going to use dating sites but I am going to become a social butterfly. I need to find small ways to enjoy my life. I am going to every single charity event and dinner party that I get an invite to. I am going to concerts, plays and anything else I can find. I am going to every gallery opening or new exhibit. Every time a client sends me an invite -I am there. ALL OF THIS TIME I have is going to be devoted to being the BEST ME. No more energy on my x who is loving someone else (and he is GREAT in that area-AWESOME- the heavens opened up when we connected). Even if he is with the chick at the hotel -he is still online looking (HARD).
I regret the day that I met him. I want to erase HIM out of my mind. If God showed up today and granted me a WISH. I would have him erase that time period from my life. I would have him roll the movie clip of my life back and erase the day he walked up an introduced himself to me SNIP. I have a ton of other life lessons (where my a** was kicked good). I don’t need this one. He disrespected me BIG TIME. I feel like he got over on ME. You have provided validation for me that this happens to other people. How do we move on? Do you think Christie Brinkley is happy about Cook cheating on her? Heck no but she is now living a beautiful life by all accounts. If life moves on for her and others it can move on for us. I have to make up my mind that he is not the be all end all.
There are lots of causes I could devote my time to. I have so much to GIVE. While in pain I can be out helping in so many ways. To whom much is given much is expected.
I use to LOVE I mean LOVE weekends. I am ALONE now. I am determined to find a way to SMILE this weekend. I can go anywhere and do anything I want. My PAIN has kept me grounded. I have checked into some of the BEST resorts and been pampered and I then have sat in the room crying. I mean I have been surrounded by BEAUTY. This PAIN is real. I am not being dramatic but he should have just taken a knife and cut my heart out that night. A part of me just died right there in his driveway. DAMN. This has been TOUGH. Just like you said tougher than the death of a family member. I am sitting in here crying right NOW.
I am going to let this thing run its course but I am going to use every ounce of strength I have to FOCUS ON ME. I am wasting SO MUCH time analyzing this. There are so many other things I could have done that would have improved the quality of my life. But the energy has been tied up in the BS this lair pulled. My choice. I get angry sometimes when people say your happiness is your responsibility. I know it is. But when you are hurt like this it is hard to hear that. Hell I m just trying to get thru each day.
I am going to start to FOCUS ON ME. When I have to cry I will but I am going to keep moving. I really did LOVE him. We had so much fun together. We had some really good times. Now, for the sake of my own sanity I want to forget the day I MET HIM. This is TOUGH.
I have said what is on my mind in a safe place today. I don’t really TRUST anything anymore. I was afraid to post here till I read your posts and felt your pain. I was afraid of having someone on here HURT me again. Today, I am full and I just needed a place to let it all out.
I am going to make a project list this weekend. Say Something let’s try to have a good weekend. Like you said I hope we experience one positive thing this weekend. HUGS.
Hi Mary Jane,
I read on this site for months before ever commenting. Right now I’m reading Natalie’s No Contact book and Sandra Brown’s Women Who Love Psychopaths. If you’re not familiar, check out what she refers to as “super traits”. It’s because we’re NOT selfish:
“Women who love psychopaths have some very interesting traits. Women who ended up with these types of me were tested using the TCI (Temperament and Character Instrument). They test off the charts high in the following:
Excitement Seeking, Extraversion and Dominance. I had a resistance to dominance, as I do not consider myself a dominant person, but she explained that dominance encompasses people that feel like they are very in control of their lives.
In these 3 areas, the women scored almost as high as psychopaths. That is the draw, the magnet that pulls them in and draws them to each other.
Aside from those 3 traits, the women were in the 97% percentile for the following traits:
Competitive
Sentimentality
Bonding
Attachment
Tolerance
Friendliness
Empathy
Helpfulness
Compassion
Responsibility
Purposefulness
Resourcefulness
Loyalty
Trust
And that is where the see-saw comes in. Dangerous men are severely lacking if not completely deficient in all of these traits. He pretends to have them and her overage of these traits evens them out. She is over empathic, he has zero. Her empathy covers for his complete lack.”
BGE never reached out to me either. Any contact was always on response to what I initiated. And like you, I have to be DONE.
So I went out with a group I’m involved with recently. Of course I realized I was THE ONLY SINGLE person. I was even asked that dreaded question, “Are you seeing anyone?” Ughhhh. So fast forward, one woman and I stayed later. Her (new) husband was out of town. I was feeling bad, because they met just before I’d met BGE and they are now married. Anyhow, she texted me to meet her out a few days later. Trying to forge a new path, of course I agreed. Well, after a few drinks, she was telling some guy we’d have group sex. Umm no, not me. Well eventually her husband showed up. Nobody near us knew she was married. She wasn’t wearing her ring. Then, with her husband at her side, she totally hit on me, pleading for me to text my address. She was quite graphic. I know she was drinking, but not sure where this all came from. I was nicely, but firmly telling her no, not my thing. Plus I can’t believe her husband couldn’t hear her. Thinking he was not cool with the entire scene. Anyhow, THAT was my most recent experience at focusing back on me.
And no comparing to celebrities. They have resources that we don’t. Weekends are still killer for me as well. This weekend, one year ago, was the last weekend he came to my house. My neighbor saw him with me and texted me. I replied “Nicest guy ever” to her. So I totally get your pain. Last I saw, few months ago, his profile was “hidden” so I assume he found who he has been looking for. Whoever it is, it isn’t me.
Let me know what GOOD thing you do. And it’s ok if you are still crying.
Say Something,
Thanks for the information about these books. I plan to get both. I know celebrities have better resources but I guess I like to look at people who survive. If they do so can I. Everyday people suffer great loses and keep moving forward-we can too.
Don’t allow that lady to stop you from continuing to open the door to meet people. Sounds like her new marriage has already fallen apart. Maybe that is why they say not to envy what other people have. You never know what goes on behind closed doors.
Right now I am trying to deal with the loneliness. I am going to start going out more and doing things. I have two great vacations planned out. It will do me good to get away.
I have a MAJOR work project coming up and I have to knock it out the PARK. So I have to put time into that.
I will let you know the one positive thing I do this weekend and you keep me posted. I hope I don’t cry but if I do. I know it is just the loneliness. Hugs.
Sandra Brown has a blog on PT as well: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/pathological-relationships
Another useful blog on PT is “Stop walking on eggshells”:
Thanks Teddie,
I’ve read about all of the links on Sandra Brown’s site. I know I’ve seen the other as well. I bookmarked so many sites (100s)!!!
Love this writer, Brianna Weist too:
http://thoughtcatalog.com/brianna-wiest/2015/04/how-to-love-a-girl-whos-guarded/
“Once upon a time she fell in love the way thousands and millions of people do every day and hour and in the last three seconds while you were reading this. But it wasn’t the falling in love, or the breaking up that ultimately broke her.
It was that she found the truest seeming, most divinely timed, so evidently fated love, only to learn that conviction is not actually an indication of what will transpire. One person’s absolutely certain belief that it should be forever… doesn’t make it so. She learned that deep, true, miraculous love… goes away sometimes. Without explanation. Without retribution.
She loved so maddeningly she let it burn through her and realized she was left with nothing. She grasped and begged and convinced herself it just absolutely had to be! She rested her heart in that safety, only to find it was an illusion.
It’s not that she doesn’t believe in love, she just doesn’t trust it.”
Hi Say Something,
I did a pilates and cycle class today. Wish I could say it helped me feel good. A lady I normally see there went for coffee with me. When she took off her shades she had a black eye. I guess the makeup she had hiding it had came off from class. She told me a guy she met on a dating site hit her. They had gone out for about four months. I will not use a dating site. You just don’t know who you are going to meet.
Her story has me wiped out. She is a professional out here just trying to date. Starting over is not going to be easy. All my dreams and hopes are wiped away. I am starting at ground zero. The stories here and elsewhere are not the best.
This weekend is just not the best. I hope you had a better weekend. I know this weekend has some memories for you to deal with. Hugs.
Hi MJ,
Scary story from your exercise friend. And she didn’t have him arrested because…? I hope she does not see him again. But it doesn’t matter how she met him.
I am visiting with a friend tonite who listens to me endlessly. She sees that I dodged a bullet. If only we could say that about ourselves, believe it, and not look back. Oh, to not look back.
I’ll hope you have a better Sunday, and I’ll think positive thoughts for you when I have some morning coffee. Coffee is a good thing. We have THAT.
🙂
Say Something,
Here is a positive article I wanted to share with you.
http://blogs.psychcentral.com/leveraging-adversity/2014/10/want-to-be-mentally-tough-stop-doing-these-five-things/
MJ,
I’ve been thinking. Your guy was selfish. I think he DID want you to catch him. You’ll never know for SURE, but he was being passive-aggressive and wouldn’t tell you. So he did his semi-secret HO-tel thing. I think, if he really DIDN’T want you to find out, you would have seen “cease and desist” with him begging for forgiveness.
Your guy and BGE were both DONE. I did get the “I haven’t given up” when prompted, but it was a lie because there was no explanation, effort, caring, or understanding. There was no resemblance of a mature, adult breakup. Once another woman is introduced, they know that’s the ultimate betrayal and a way out. That’s the most hurtful and final escape. Neither one asked for forgiveness. I think BGE strung me along at the end hoping I just couldn’t take it anymore. Instead I received a TEXT. When prompted of course. F-ing TEXT. Your guy was a coward. You are courageous. And Sofia, if you are reading, you are courageous too.
I know I felt like I put BGE before me. He had work stress, and stress with his brother. And not that I had any major needs, but I know I put him first. I didn’t want to add TO his stress, and so when he never gave me the possible dates for our vacation, I said nothing. He must have been too busy, or stressed, or just forgot this week. Plus I didn’t NEED a vacation. I haven’t had one in 12 years. I’ve learned to go without. I’m used to it. And asking for what he’d already offered felt selfish to me. Because he didn’t ever owe me anything, right?
Say Something,
There was no begging for forgiveness. He sent a hotel receipt by text and lied about who he was with. That was his effort to salvage what we had. I shut that down once I made the call and found out how man HO-tel runs he had made. I cant police a man. He was doing this when I went to sleep at night.
I cant play security guard either. Maybe you are right. He wanted me to find out. He is GONE is my evidence. He throw a fire bomb and took off for the hills. I am doing damage control now.
This is just my personal observation gurl. You need a vacation NOW. Put yourself first and plan a vacation.
You are so correct about him being a coward. He went out on date after date with me. Ate these great dinners I cooked for him. Accepted nice gifts knowing what he was doing behind my back—ALL ALONG.
Let’s stop putting them first and NOW we need to focus on healing.
Hi MJ,
Well I’m at a weekend sporting event out of town and outside- freezing. Looking around at men in proximity and am blinded by the glare from all the wedding rings. Sigh. Anyhow, I brought Natalie’s NC book with me and am reading about what to expect in stages of relationship grief. I think I’m all over the map because I relate to feelings in all the stages. Well, not acceptance. I know I’m not there. Kind of lonely here, as usual, but I’m here.
I have a super busy work week on tap, as you mentioned, and need to finish a large project as well. I am in a good place career-wise at the moment. When my kids are a little older and I have reason to possibly move, I know I’ll be in a good place to transition. Sadly, I offered to move for him and would’ve commuted to my job until finding something closer. I guess putting that offer out and being point blank denied is pretty telling. So I never really lived too far away. (original reason he was breaking up with me even though he claimed he wasn’t.)
BGE: You live too far away.
Me: You’re ditching me?
BGE: That’s not what I’m saying. Why are you being so harsh?
Truth is, both guys were harsh. We should never have to question “where we stand” or if they’re hiding out in a HO-tel or pimping themselves out online. They’re selfish. I’m glad you found out the truth and are working through your pain. You’re working with your only good option.
I used to have an almost daily morning exercise routine. I haven’t had the mind to get through it since my life stopped in its tracks 11 months ago. I think I need that back. Damn. When he gave up on me, I gave up on myself too. Except when I’m alone, I feel fake because I have to show the world that I’m wonderful and ok. My goal is that someday I won’t be faking it. Let’s get real!
Say Something,
I got emotional reading the part of your note about giving up on yourself. I understand what you are saying. Things shut down for me too in some ways. I use to have my hair done twice a week. I lived in the spa having facials, mani, pedi etc. We saw each other doing the week for dinner and movies or other things and I wanted to look great. I still get these things done but it takes MAJOR effort to go. This has drained the LIFE out of me. Obviously I am having a bad weekend.
We had nice long weekends together. We would discuss our businesses together and how we handled clients. We planned how we would merge our work once we were married. Just dead dreams now. The excitement is SUCKED out of everything NOW. I am just floating thru my work now- no real joy and not meeting my full potential.
Say Something I just wish I knew when he did his U Turn. I cant really tell you how long he was checking into that HO-tel. I wish you were here and we could sit and talk about this (lol).
TLW you had with him did you say he told you it was over and he still made love to you. If it is not too painful can you tell me what that was about.
He knew where you lived when he started the relationship with you. I wish these fools could just be honest. Oh and I hate how we had to deal with them being so COLD at the end. These are men we treated with respect. We have to be more careful with our hearts moving forward. This has done a number on us.
Have a great weekend. I am glad you are out and I am glad we can continue our talks.
Good afternoon MJ,
I did think of you this morning with my coffee. And yes, it would be great to have coffee together in real life. Let’s not rule it out. Well then of course I was sad remembering “our” weekend coffee time together. And knowing that’s the last thing we did together on TLW. I was trying to leave early tues and he insisted I sit on the couch with him for coffee. That’s when I lost it. And TLW actually began early Sun eve while we were getting the grill set for dinner. But it was so confusing and mixed with contradictory statements that I didn’t know what was really going on. All I knew and believed was that BGE would NEVER hurt me. I believed that. Yet, I was hurting. And confused. So yes, why were we still having sex Sunday night and why did he agree to me staying another day when I asked for that on Monday morning? Monday morning was one last round of sex, and he agreed that I could stay another day. So I was thinking we’d talk through whatever his doubts seemed to be. Maybe I’d been unclear. Maybe he doubted my commitment? Maybe something scared him. He wasn’t saying. I just figured it HAD to be something we could talk about and solve together since, like you, he never said or acted any differently than really liking me. Well until TLW. And even Tues AM when I left because I couldn’t choke down coffee in the midst of having a meltdown.
Me: I’m never going to see you again, am I?
BGE: I think I’m going to be here next weekend.
Does it make sense why I was so confused? I don’t know when he did his EU-turn either, and of course I wonder if he EVER liked me at all. Why did he invite me for TLW? Did he know it would be TLW? And I know, in the end he just bailed. Cold-hearted nothingness. I remember saying “I’m a person, not a thing.” Nothing more than a temporary, generic warm body, serving as a stop gap to fill some unspoken void of his. Disposable at whim. I NEVER want to be treated like that again. Yes, they were treated with respect. We were not. We will have new stories, though. We HAVE to.
Regarding the link you sent, I’ve always taken things personally. Have you read The Four Agreements? I connected with the overall message, but the content was a bit much for me.
Hi Say Something,
Part of recovering for me is reading positive things about acceptance and forgiveness. Please look at this article if you get a chance. There may be things you like. If not I understand.
This part struck a chord with me:
use the pain of your experience as an asset that motivates you to learn how to better protect yourself from harm
I have to use this experience as an asset because I don’t EVER want anything like this to happen again. I am going to be very careful.
Here in the link for the article
http://blogs.psychcentral.com/relationships/2012/04/the-ten-steps-of-acceptance-healing-yourself-when-forgiveness-of-the-other-is-not-the-best-option/
Have a great week. I am working on recovery by accepting what is. I planned out my social calendar for the next month. Socializing is part of my healing process. I also developed a list of interesting projects. If I focus on these (it is a Looong list-lol)I am hoping I want have time to focus on anything else but ME.
I have cried this weekend, but I have not idealized him. I have focused on the damage he did and thought about how to turn this around. Acceptance and forgiveness is where my focus is right now.
I want my life back. Like you I don’t want to be alone. I want to spend my life with someone special.
Excerpt from the article
4. Protect yourself from further abuse.
This step involves fully accepting the fullness of how wrong the other’s actions against you were in order to learn to distance and to protect yourself from such actions in the future. This conscious acceptance allows you to chose to use the pain of your experience as an asset that motivates you to learn how to better protect yourself from harm, and to take precautions to ensure your safety in the present and future, setting up physical barriers if necessary. Your success depends on how much you want the abusive pattern to stop, the extent to which you believe in yourself to make whatever changes necessary, and what you’re willing to do to realize change.
Thanks MJ,
I think that’s the same link I sent to Sofia a few weeks ago. Conscious Awareness and Acceptance. I’m going to keep trying. I wrote, in response to Ellle, that I need to see BGE as the guy he was at the end. I need to accept that TLW guy is who he really is. Of course being the person I am, I want evidence. I want proof in the form of knowing how he was with others. I have nothing because I didn’t know him before we got together, and I’ve never seen him again. I can only extrapolate.
You are much more organized than I am. Six months ago I ordered concert tickets and I still have nobody to go with me this next weekend. That is just pathetic. I have a few routine scheduled activities, primarily athletic, that I do each week, but it still feels lonely. I feel lonely, even when I’m not alone.
So I want to work on realizing that BGE is NOT BGE. I truly believe that is critical for me. Because I’m still feeling like I lost out on the best person to ever enter my life. I missed out on the greatest guy I have ever known. That’s the guy he showed himself to be, consistently. So I continue to believe that BGE is the real him, and the ugliness at the end was just me not liking the fact that he rejected me. He was able to switch back and forth during TLW. I’ll never forget that blank stare when I told he had the best poker face ever. He just stared at me with no emotion and SAID NOTHING.
Conscious awareness and acceptance…
Hi Say Something,
These two NEVER thought about the damage they were doing. Neither of them can be trusted. They were both COLD to us. Did I tell you that I had tickets for MAJOR things for us to do? He knew this. Never used them money down the drain. One time I went out again and got some tickets (after he cheated). An associate said she would go with me. She bailed out on me at the last minute. I just sat at home BIG money lost. I tried to give the tickets away too late. People couldn’t do it. I was too sad to go anywhere.
The two of us use to talk on the phone all day. I was MY TRUE SELF with him. It was just so REAL (so I thought). Some things are just too painful to revisit.
What is your biggest fear? I don’t think I will ever meet anyone I have this close connection with. Is this sad? I had a close connection with a liar and a cheater.
I want someone I can laugh and talk to like I did with him. When did he find the time to see her? It had to be late at night after I went to bed. He talked to me all day. Now, I am hurting myself going back down this lane. It is OVER. He wanted someone else they started out at HO-tels. I need to focus on ME and how I put the pieces of my life back together.
He disrespected me. No face to face sit down. No explanation. You see here I go again. They are both cold blooded. We deserve better.
We need to see these guys for who they are. I miss the really good things I had with him. He is a LIAR. He is a coward. He betrayed me. He disrespected me. Someone like that even if they can help me pick out great shoes and dresses (and hold great conversations) with me cant be part of my life. There were so many good things with us. It wasn’t enough for him. He is some place lying and cheating on someone. They want know what hit them till they go that dark COLD treatment from HIM. I bet Ms. HO-tel already got a dose of that. SMH.
Say Something, are you in love with your pain? Is your reason for keeping the pain” fresh” – constantly using the BGE moniker, constantly referring to TLW (the last weekend) – is that your way of staying emotionally connected? If you can’t “move on”, then technically you are still “in” the relationship.
You’re lonely. The last times you had an escape from loneliness all involve your last crash-and-burn relationship. You’re afraid that you can’t find another way to fight your loneliness, so you are holding on to your pain like it’s a security blanket.
If any of us actually find our BGE, we have to know that sometimes they will disappoint us. BGE does not mean he won’t ever let you down. So, NO BGE should ever be put on a pedestal. Get yours off of the pedestal, accept that he wants to move on, and then move on yourself.
And a man who shows no empathy or tenderness when you are standing before him with your emotions in a hurt state, well, I hope that is not the best guy you’ll ever be with.
Hi Elgie,
I’m not exactly sure why I continue hanging on to the pain. I haven’t figured out HOW to release it, and it’s been pointed out to me that while pain is inevitable, suffering does not have to continue. I feel incapable of navigating from pain to healing. I feel frustrated. Sad. Abnormal. I read comments from people who appear to have “aha” moments and within days or weeks they’re so much better. I’m stubborn. And hurting. And lonely. And I just can’t seem to let “this” go – you are completely right. I’m doing something wrong. Because who would EVER want to feel so horrible? Every single day, for eleven months? Yet, I remain. And I remember who I knew as the BGE and I miss him. And I don’t WANT to miss him because THAT’S WHAT IS KILLING ME.
You are right, Elgie, that a BGE (or ANYONE important in our lives) can let us down. But we are able to talk, compromise, and form solutions. Or at least make decisions based on truth and knowledge. But I guess that to me, the BGE wouldn’t deceive me on purpose, wouldn’t offer promises of a future and then downplay and deny that he did. And wouldn’t walk away forever. But he did, and I know I sound like an annoying broken record. And I’m sorry. Additionally, I think the fact that, unlike MOST people posting on this site, he NEVER contacted me of his own accord, is an ego blow. I guess that is the sense I make of it. So in turn I have made that fact to be that there must have been something so terribly wrong that he would never, ever think twice about his (to me) abrupt and swift, out of nowhere, decision to forever end our relationship without saying a word or ever acting unhappy or dissatisfied. If I “imagined” that who I thought was the BGE was fake and that what I thought was the best relationship ever was really ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL, what does that say about me? That I am completely delusional, and made up a relationship? I have admittedly been wrong many times in my life, but not like this. So maybe “staying here” is my punishment because I have no idea what real is, what it feels like, or how to embrace it.
Figuring out “how to be now” is the most difficult concept I’ve ever dealt with. I don’t know WHY I can successfully deal with all the other aspects of my life. Just not this part. It is SO not a reflection of my overall being and it is killing me to have this awful, secret fault and weakness. I have a mid-level career with significant responsibilities; an advanced degree; a mortgage; kids; I do my own taxes; manage my finances. I’m functional everywhere else. Yet I feel completely inadequate trying to “move on”. Ok, I absolutely suck at it might be more accurate. It is eating away at me, no doubt. And yes, being stuck here has created beliefs that herein lies my destiny and all the other unworthy crap that follows. Sometimes I feel like I have put in 100 times the thought, work, effort, different angles, positive attitude (even before the BGE debacle) than most people I know but it is never enough and my god, how much harder to I need to work? Nobody I know (except people I read about here and one real life friend) ever had to think like this. Someday I just want to live my life and not have to be swirling in misery and attempting to “fix” myself over and over with it never being right. I believe in continued growth and learning. I believe in the goodness of other people. I believe that those who are truly happy are living their best lives. And I believe that I must not be doing it right.
The rational part of me, can look from the outside and say WHY WOULD YOU E-V-E-R PUT UP WITH THIS SHIT? It’s crazy, makes no sense, and it’s wasteful. I know all this to be true. But then I look back and wonder… how could this mindf-ck of a relationship be the best I’ve ever had? So.messed.up.
I sincerely thank you for making me think. My frustration is with myself, not with your questions. I know I need to think differently and I’m out of my element.
Elgie,
Interesting comment…. It seems like it is giving her energy. Some kind of twisted ‘purpose.’
It’s misguided though–wasting all of this time trying to figure him out, and for what?
The real work is figuring out ourselves, knowing who we are…what we need, want….
In her obsession, you will find the denial. It’s safer to dissect him than to dissect oneself. It’s easier to throw around ‘expletives’…some could find it comforting.
It takes courage to look at oneself in the mirror…the pain….
These men are long gone, and some people are still sifting through their closets, staring at a piece of paper he dropped on the floor, unnoticed, on his haste to get out the door.
Say Something,
Here is a HUG from me to YOU. We have things in common. We will get to the other side of this. Read this list (see link below). I am just thinking of things to try to help us both heal. I am trying to HEAL.
Rejection hurts. You know I use to get so excited about small things. I use to LOVE planning to see great plays and did all sorts of really FUN things. I loved going shopping for a great pair of shoes. It would tickle me to find a great pair of shoes. I know these things may seem silly but I loved them. I am just pointing out I want JOY in my life again. We have to redirect all of our energy into US.
Like YOU I am on top of my game in all areas of my life. I worked hard to get here. This has sidelined me. I am personally NUMB at times. I don’t want you to feel any worse than you do. You have helped me. This did major damage to me. I just couldn’t believe someone I have loved would turn so COLD. When you had the courage to SHARE your story it helped me. I am learning. I will monitor the EXPECTATIONS that I have with people moving forward.
I have a new name for BGE -BJO (Biggest Jerk Off). I feel your pain. I love this site. People here are reaching out to help. They are saying things to help us think this all over. Both of these men had to know we were in PAIN. It is tough but I accept that he MOVED ON. He got caught and moved on. This game was going on behind my back. This is a reflection on him. He got down on his name and proposed. He is a liar and a fraud. It has nothing to do with me. I treated him with RESPECT till the end.
We need to think about all the work we have done to date to build our bright futures. One ASS can’t just walk in and destroy us. We have come through other storms and we need to reframe our stories. We will RECOVER.
http://tinybuddha.com/blog/40-ways-to-let-go-and-feel-less-pain/
Hello MJ,
Thank you for the link. I’m going to pick TWO that I haven’t yet done and focus on those. Even when I have tried/ done suggested things I don’t have those feeling of satisfaction, peace, or acceptance. That’s where I need to be. Ahhhh, and JOY. Miss that too. I’m glad that sharing my story has benefitted you. It’s hard not knowing anyone who’s been through anything similar. I do have a friend that many many years ago, before she was married and before Internet, suffered a related abrupt relationship ending with no explanation. So I understand about feeling damaged. Feeling numb. Feeling never-ending sadness. Of course initially I believed he would apologize, say he was scared, say something that made sense. Say something honest! Call it denial, but that’s how confident (like you I’m guessing) I was in how he felt about me.
RECOVERY
I think I shared my basic story “reframe” aka safe story:
I met a guy
I fell in love
He broke my heart
RECOVERY
Sending a hug back your way.
Hi Say Something (running out of space to reply under your latest notes),
The exchanges that we are having are helping me out. You have many of the same questions that I have. They will never be answered by them. We have to sort thru this mess.
I have heard about four agreements but have not read it. I will look into that one. I am spending lots of time reading. My other panacea is running. I am really getting back into my running. It calms my mind. I am going to do it daily along with a LONG walk. I will close out my day with positive reading.
I think it is interesting that this guy had you come spend the weekend with him and then end it. Mine left my house knowing he was headed to a HO-tel almost two hours away. I guess he must have been laughing his ass off as he left my house. I guess he needed something new. This didn’t just start that day. He had been doing it all along. He really fooled me. I had NO IDEA this was going on. How long was this going on? He was able to compartmentalize it all.
I think your guy was online talking to someone else and decided to move on. He knew. They both knew what they were doing. They didn’t have to give a second thought about it because it is what they wanted. They didn’t have the decency to respectfully tell us they were ready to move on with someone new.
You know what- I am glad I didn’t marry him. He would have done the same thing to me. An engagement is a commitment. He didn’t honor it. A marriage would have been a nightmare. A legal nightmare. It was so easy for him to trot off and find someone. Now, I would love to find someone who has character and is right for me.
I don’t want to be alone. I don’t like how he played with you that last weekend. It sounds like he had you so confused. You were even blaming yourself. He KNEW what he was doing. He tells you later he is dating someone else. He knew all along what his game plan was. It is wrong to TOY around with someone’s emotions. Just dead wrong.
Neither of them have called (and I am glad). It shows they had a hidden agenda. I don’t want this to happen again. Hurts too much.
Hi MJ,
So in my response to Elgie I wrote that part of me is sad (ok, all of me) that he never contacted me, never gave the relationship a second thought, or second chance. Never. And I wonder if that is extra hurtful to you as well. NO IDEA either that I was about to be cut out of his life. Forever. Unless I wanted to accept the fake friend card and I could not. And MJ, how do you know he’s still with HO-tel girl? How do you know? What are you seeing or hearing? In my dream last night, I was standing by the highway looking for his vehicle to go by. And on my half sleep, I wondered if I’d really done that. But everyday I see dozens of vehicles just like his and it’s a horrible anxiety trigger for me. I’ve never had anxiety and sleep issues until him. And I can’t help but believe that I wasn’t enough FOR HIM because he picked someone else. Do you know the song “Girl Crush”? Yeah.
Yes, you did mention you’d purchased tickets and things. But we both know it’s not really the money wasted that’s important. It’s the loss of trust and the person we thought we knew. Cold, blank stare. With his final text and follow up emails when I broke NC, he SIGNED HIS NAME like a formal business letter. WTF.
We had GREAT conversations too, which I absolutely valued and loved. But was it all pretend and mirroring? Idk because I wasn’t LOOKING for deception. I miss that. No lie. I miss talking to him.
I should invest in waterproof mascara, as I’m constantly smearing black (or brownish-black) into the crevasses my tears have carved into my face. I have cried more in the last year than every other year of my life combined. It can’t be right.
Yes, my biggest fear is the same as yours. I will never meet someone I feel so connected to, someone I care for that much, someone who feels that right. I think I will never know what genuine love feels like. I don’t even know. And yep, if I’m this far along in life and can’t connect with ONE DECENT PERSON after years of trying and offering my best, then my best is sub-par and I don’t know why. And people can say “change your attitude” yes, but I’ve had the good attitude, the confidence, the positivity. I’ve been the upbeat, wonderful, thoughtful, caring, responsible me. And I made the mistake of letting him destroy me. I didn’t do it on purpose. I just never saw it coming.
Say Something –
Just wanted to offer a hug and let you know you’re not alone. I had met a guy and we hit it off for months and he stood me up on a date and disappeared. To make matters worse the last thing he said to me was ‘I love you’.
I get the thing about the car. We lived and worked in the same parts of town and I would see his car and panic initially whenever I saw a similar car wondering if it was him. I had to turn it around and think rationally – “Why am I the one hiding when it was HE who acted dishonest and cowardly?’ It meddled with my head a lot longer than it needed to just because of the way it ended. I hadn’t seen anyone act so intense and then go poof like that before.
I pushed myself to go spend time with people who had been there for me and do things I enjoyed. Eventually it stopped caring if his car was near when driving around town.
I found the book ‘He’s Scared She’s Scared’ helpful as it addresses what they call active EU and this (plus cheating) are a few ways it plays out. It at least got me to see it had everything to do with him and his issues and nothing about me (other than I missed a few flags and kept engaging).
Hi Allison,
I purchased and read all three books in the series:
Men Who Can’t Love
He’s Scared, She’s Scared
Getting to Commitment
After storming through so many books, articles, and blogs I realize I need to revisit many with fresh eyes and a modified perspective. I think I remember being frustrated in reading these books (2 and 3) because I felt like the message was almost saying “well, he just can’t help it, poor thing” but maybe I’m being ultra-sensitive.
I found the first one most relevant to me. Sorry that you also experienced a disappearing act. Although it happens often after just meeting, or talking with someone online and never meeting, it’s just crazy to pretty much all but disappear after an
established relationship.
The other crazy thing is that he doesn’t even live near me. My mind does not care.
Say Something –
I’m glad to see you found those books. Yes I can mostly relate to Men Who Can’t Love but I realized after coming here to BR that I need to not just relate to EU men but that I also need to see my role and behavior in it. That’s why I do like He’s Scared, She’s Scared. I didn’t look at it as ‘he can’t help you’. I saw it as ‘here is the crazy dynamic that both of you are contributing to’.
Another book I like and reread a lot (besides Nat’s stuff) is Temptations of a Single Girl. Basically it’s a fictional story of a fallback girl working with a life coach to become emotionally available.
In any case, the Houdini act sucks and makes things so much worse. I hope you’re getting some benefit writing out the hurt here.
Good Morning Say Something,
I can feel the PAIN you are in with each POST. Like you I was happy and never saw it coming. The only thing we can do at this point is put our energy into healing and think about our future.
I don’t really know what he is doing. Now, I don’t care. He attempted to lie to me about where he was that night. He did that to try to save our relationship. I ended it QUICK once I knew he lied. My regret is not asking him why he did it.
He appeared to be happy every time I saw him. He was always hugging and kissing me. He would pull me over to sit on his lap and he was hugging me. When we went out to eat he sat right beside me in the booth rather than sit across from me. I point this out to show how close he liked being with me because his actions demonstrated LOVE. So, I never saw any attempts to distance himself from me. He took interest in everything I did. We spent countless hours together. We both planned and talked about our future. Then he got down on his knee and ask me to marry him. Then he betrayed me. He kissed me and told me he loved me as he left my house headed to the HO-tel. I called him JUDAS when I discovered what he did.
I m going to FIGHT like hell to recover. I am not going to let the actions of a man who lied and cheated destroy me. I am also going to stop analyzing this. It is simple he went out to get some extra *** at the HO-tel. He got caught. Don’t know why he did it but if you are engaged to me I will not tolerate that BS. So, I broke it off QUICK.
I am going to pursue happiness. I can’t rehash it anymore. It is setting me back. “Loving myself means letting go” is the phrase plastered in my master bathroom mirror. That is my TRUTH.
I will not continue allow his HO-tel runs to impact my sleep or my health. He cheated. I didn’t want him back. NEVER DID. MAJOR DISAPPOINTMENT. Just want to know Y. I wanted to know why he DID IT.
I have read that sometimes you have to get closure on your own. Here is my closure- he wasn’t happy and just never told me. I don’t want to be with a sneaky lair. I guess we just don’t get everything we want. I would have preferred that he say MJ I am not happy and I want to break things off. That would have hurt, but I would have had a respectful conversation with someone I loved and invested time in.
I have so MANY beautiful memories. There were so many good times. I can not idealize him. He is a LIAR and a CHEAT. I have accepted it and I am moving forward each day. I want a connection with someone who can be loyal and still happily go shoe shopping with me (and love it).
There is nothing wrong with you. In your reply you have listed out your qualities and you are PROUD of them. You don’t have to PROVE your worth. There is someone out there who would love to be with YOU. Rejection bruises the EGO. I know. This JERK (BGE) just toyed around with YOU. He had someone else in the wings. He told you to move on. It seems like he made it clear that there was no FUTURE. I never got that.
What I don’t like is how he had you over for an extended weekend. That is just cruel. He knew then what his intentions were. I am not clear on this but I think he told you it was over but the next morning he still had sex with you. At that point you were stunned, hurt and confused. You thought you could change his mind. My x never told me to move on. Never told me it was over. He just kept going to the HO-tel until I caught him. We were engaged.
I know it hurts and not being sure of what the future holds makes it tough. I think if you really thought about the dirty crap he pulled and got angry about it you would knock him off that pedestal. You noticed one day that he had his dating profile open. What if he was on-line searching the entire time you were together? Neither of them were honest. I believe JUDAS was online looking while engaged to me. He spent too much time with me. Online gave him the opportunity to search and blindside me.
Have faith in yourself. Life can change in a minute for the BEST. You need to meet someone new. So do I. PUT ALL OF YOUR ENERGY INTO YOU. Forget him one day at a time. He is not worth all the PAIN. My energy is now focused on ME.
I know this is TOUGH, but you need a plan for moving on. I have read that there is no timetable and no one can tell you when to LET GO. You have to make this call. You are not abnormal. You are just hurt. You are going to have to let go.
What are you going to do to enjoy your Summer?
Say Something,
I had to look at the lyrics of Girl Crush. Those lyrics can take you DOWN into a deep dark hole. You need sunshine dear heart. These lyrics cause you to compare yourself to someone. To falsely believe you are just not good enough. Rejection is so painful. You are good enough. You have much to offer to someone who is worthy. He is not worth it.
The women they ran off with are no better than US. They may even be discarded and mistreated. I have had the same thoughts that you have had. When I found out he was at the HO-tel. I thought WOW that must have been one bad B****. He risk his future with me to be with her. The same way he made the decision to ask me to marry him- he made the choice to go to that HO-tel. It had nothing to do with me.
We can tell ourselves stories that do further damage. Here is the truth. You deserve to be with someone better. His actions do not take away from your positive traits. LIARS do major damage but it can be overcome. Think about him seeing your pain and showing you no mercy. He had moved on.
Those lyrics are BRUTAL. Be kind to yourself. I know this may not seem important to you because you are HURT. He told you it was over. He is one cold ass, but this jack ass closed the door. You are hurt because your heart is stuck on the future and the promises of more good times. You have to accept that he is gone. Men are not as emotional as we are. Judas didn’t tell me but his actions caused our relationship to end. You know what I am 100% sure of when I discovered his betrayal- he didn’t miss a beat. He kept humping that HO-tel prospect like she was the best thing going. He didn’t let this STOP his life. Do you understand what I am telling you?
Someone else wrote a POST to you about how someone just disappeared without a word. Find a way to be kind to yourself and LET GO. You have his words- it is over we need to move on. So many of us get nothing. Use his words as fuel to restart your life.
Let his words fire you up to move on. You need some type of JOY and NOW. Continue to read positive articles and right now push everything negative aside. Find one new project and when you think of him dive into that project. Do something to try to make yourself find a little bit of JOY.
I am out here doing the same thing and I am pulling for YOU. I understand how this has hit you. You and I can put this behind US.
Good Morning MJ,
Last night I felt so physically and emotionally exhausted that I didn’t have it in me to respond. I also saw my therapist yesterday, and talked about some of my interactions on BR. I told her how at this point in time I’ve hit over 1000 hours of reading, researching, writing, talking and wondered when it would be enough. Because if I’ve done all this work and 99% of people interact with are not on the same page, what difference does it make? My point is not that I don’t want to continue to become a better person, but WHEN can the intense focus become just a steady, consistent part of life? Idk but she said it was the first time she sensed a shift in me. I feel like my laser focus on the BGE debacle, on top of the fact that it happened, is doing me in.
Before I fell asleep last night, I noticed how cool the pillowcase felt on the side of my face. Just for one second. And then I felt how tight my back, shoulders, and face felt from all the stress I’ve been living with. And I woke up feeling this stress. Living with pain and suffering is causing this stress. I know it.
The fact that you were able to discover that Judas betrayed you and you didn’t want him back shows you have strength of character. Please don’t think that because BGE said/wrote anything to me that it was at all helpful. I never got truth or clarity. And yes, TLW was fri-tues. Sunday while making dinner is when he served up the first phase of the discard. But he “wasn’t ditching me” and I don’t remember how that phase ended. And yes, then we continued life, including having sex, like phase 1 never happened. But something in me felt “off” and so phase 2 began IN HIS BED right after having sex when I asked what was going on. With his arms around me, he just coldly uttered the words “you live too far away” so I pushed away and sat up in bed and told him “I feel like I shouldn’t be here” and there I remained. He then calmly asked “are you fuming mad?” (I think he WANTED me to be) and I said “No, I’m really upset.” A few minutes later he reached up for me and pulled me back down to him and fell asleep. I couldn’t sleep. And yes, then we had sex AGAIN in the morning, like everything was fine. Why did I participate? Well I WANTED everything to be fine, and part of me thought he must’ve had some weird, bad day because I’d never seen that side of him. I was confused, upset, scared. I didn’t understand fully what was going on but I knew we needed to talk. He agreed I could stay another day. He went to work and I worked a half day remotely while experiencing full blown anxiety that had me wanting to escape myself. Why did he agree I could stay if he didn’t want me around? He must want to work “this” out. But he didn’t want to talk about it. Why was I still there? Why did he insist on wanting me to sit with him for coffee tues am when I tried to flee the scene? Why did he kiss me goodbye? Twice? How was he able to fall asleep again so easily mon night while I was right there next to him crying? How could he say things like “I gave you all my free time,” “this happens sometimes in dating,” “this whole relationship has been a vacation,” ” this relationship isn’t sustainable”??? Believe me, that wasn’t closure it was just brutal pain coming from someone I absolutely adored. And it didn’t even make sense.
And all along he’d been working this other angle… “I really need a vacation,” ” have I mentioned that I really need a vacation,” “Soon we’ll have the sun on our shoulders and IPAs in our hands,” “I want to pack up …and take you to xxxxxx,” “next week I’ll pick some dates.” I never promoted any vacation talk, it was all him. But in the end, he denied it all and said “oh, that would have been when it was cold. I usually spend my time off staining my deck.” that’s where “this whole relationship has been a vacation” came from.
I know what you mean about physical closeness. “It feels like you’re melting right into me” he said. I could go on, but it’s too painful.
Anyhow, I also mentioned that I feel like all his BGE qualities had been imprinted in my mind. Like permanently. And I need to erase that. I can’t explain it any other way because I don’t have any other experience to compare with. I felt bonded, attached, trusting, sure, confident, happy, hopeful, comfortable, peaceful. And with TLW, I left all those good feelings behind with him. I attached the good feelings to him. I’m not trying to ignore “my part” which was in essence wrongly trusting, believing, and attaching to him. I didn’t know he was a future faker, nor had I ever heard that term. In the aftermath, he claimed that nothing hurtful was his intention. But no explanation. MJ, if J told you he didn’t intend to hurt you, you wouldn’t believe it, would you? I found that statement to be “Reset button” worthy. Like “oops, forgot to put on deodorant this morning.”
I want the simple, cold pillowcase on my cheek joy, the smell of coffee means I have a day to look forward to joy, the laughter in my house means I’m supposed to me here joy. And I want more. I want the guy who values me for who I am and does not waiver joy. I want you to find that too… in your shoe shopping kind of way!
Hi Say Something (response to your post 4.29),
You have done some major reading like me. I continue to read and many times I see that I have read the things before. It is not Exhausting for me. But at first is was. Now, I look at it as a way to heal. Just like running it soothes me. Do you think you are having a hard time with this because you just cant believe he REJECTED you? I have said it before rejection hurts. Do you think some how he believes you were not good enough (ego bruised)?
I even read things on rejection to deal with the hurt. It was like being kicked in the teeth. You know I want to make a suggestion based on the stress you described. Try a hot yoga class. It lasts 90 minutes. It is SOooo relaxing. I leave all my problems on the mat. It is ok to cry in there too. You will be dripping sweat so no one will really know. Put your mat in the back of the room. If that is not good for you -go get a massage.
You could also get a really good book and go sit outside some place pretty or in a comfortable chair and just escape all of this. You need a book that is really interesting or full of drama. It will take you away.
Please think of another name for him like butt wipe. Be creative but really you saw the good side for a short period of time in the scheme of things. My Dad use to tell me that when you first meet a man that it takes time for you to see who he really is. His representative his the first person you meet. Because of the distance between where you live you never really got to see the real man. You saw his weekend face. Anybody can pull off a good guy act for the weekend. Take it from me some can pull off the act much longer before the REAL them shows up and shows out.
You need to plan a vacation. Get away to some new place. Don’t wait for anyone to show up just take a vacation.
If Judas had told me it was OVER. I can assure you he would have never seen my face again. I would have made sure I granted him his wish. I don’t care how much it would have hurt me. I would be DONE with him. I have never seen his face since I found out about his dirty deed. I hope I never see him again as long as I am living. I think I would VOMIT. If I ever run into him. I am going to turn and go in the opposite direction.
I have made a shift. I have really started to try to focus my energy on what I need to do. I sent him packing. Now, I need to rebuild. We both have to put our weekend send offs behind us.
Judas is out there some place getting his hump on(lol). My focus is on me. I had a gentleman come up and introduce himself to me and practically beg for my number. He was texting me during the week and called me. He wanted to get together. Then he went weekend silent and showed up again texting on Tuesday. I never responded. I have learned something. I am not messy but when you go silent on me. You never have to worry about reengaging with me. Radio silence. This man is obviously seeing someone and wants to add another to his roster. Girlfriend it want be me. I am screening tight. I would rather be alone tell Jesus comes back then to deal with anymore foolishness.
Hugs.
Hi SS, I think you need to be around people who you know you like and who like you. Don’t cut yourself off – and harden that heart of yours. But don’t be around agitating people who, on a good day, you’d need to bring your mini-shield with you. Try to listen to other people and join the conversation – if only to give your mind a break from this. But don’t act like you’re totally fine. I know that people have limited patience for sadness in others – which is unfortunate – but you should (hopefully) be able to tell your closest friends that you still feel like sh*t about the situation. Anyway, I am sounding rather bossy. I feel like a former smoker sometimes with all this – but the truth is, there’s still some work for me to do. Not about the AC himself (if I ever saw him again, I am sure I’d be stunned by his ordinariness and I’d think, ‘I can see why I was attracted to you, but I am so grateful that you’re no longer central to my life’), but with my parents. That’s the healing I have to do, and that’s the stuff that can still make certain social interactions less simple and chilled than I would like. Oh, I should add, a handful of my closest friends are friends I made in the year post-AC, through a certain artistic community in my city. We bonded through that pursuit, but also because we were using it to deal with stuff. I’d really recommend pursuing something creative that you’ve been holding off. That’s been huge for me. And actually, it’s where and how I eventually met my man-fiancé (can’t say second part of that word on its own, too cringy).
Hi Elle,
Thank you for sharing your words of wisdom. I think, until a year ago, I was the fun friend, the always available one, the independent, doing my life on my own one. The stable one, the she lived through a divorce after 20 years of marriage and came out ok one.
Once that dynamic changed, I was no longer who people expected me to be. I became the sad friend, the I don’t know how to feel better and I don’t want to be alone friend. The please listen to my story even if I tell it again and again annoying friend. I became the please just stop talking about him, just get on with your life friend. I became a non-friend.
I’ve always been social and friendly. In the end, BGE pointed that out as a negative/ incompatible trait. I have so narrowed down the people I interact with on a friend basis. It’s bizarre.
Also I’ve tended to thrive on creativity but right now I just don’t feel any passion. I’d shared so many ideas with BGE, and I’m now remembering him saying we needed to “fast forward my retirement ideas” meaning that haha, they were so unique we could market them and retire early.
Mary Jane talks about the business plans she thought she and HO had. So again, that belief that this wonderful future is actually coming true carried a heavy weight. Residual damage. What do we do with these dreams? I’m still stuck on all those things I thought we’d do together. So many things can’t be replaced or done by myself, or with someone else. So it feels like with the ruination of each of these false hopes, goes a part of me. The part of me that was hopeful and happy.
And not that I seriously thought we’d cash in on my creativity, but hey, there’s this guy who really likes me, likes my ideas, wants to talk about them, and appreciates my mind. He encourages me and supports me, enjoys my humor. Yes, I wrote that in the present tense, but reality is that he DIDN’T appreciate me enough. I’m still remembering him as the BGE, not as an ordinary, EU, disrespectful, selfish, thoughtless, cold, dismissive guy who didn’t really care about me. Once I believe he’s THAT guy, and not the BGE that I missed out on, I know my thinking will shift.
I don’t know the details of your “how I ended up on BR” story, but your current comments are thoughtful and insightful, not bossy 🙂 It’s refreshing to hear a success story, and I hope that someday I will be able to experience and write one too.
Also I appreciate your filtering and re-creation of
cringy words!
“I am not what happened to me, I am what I choose to become”
? Carl Jung
Why,
You come up with some STRONG quotes. I am trying Why. I don’t want this to identify me. I don’t want this to be my STORY. I just need the PAIN to end. Today works for me.
Wow!ELLE!!!!I am really pleased for you! Congratulations to you and your partner!! – I wish you both a loving and understanding life together with lots of joy and fun, health, wealth & happiness – the whole bundle! Well done!!!
My belief is there is selfish then there is SELFISH. There is a selfish where you can look out for yourself without leaving a trail of broken hearts behind you. Then there is SELFISH when you don’t care how many people(s) you hurt as long as you reach the ultimate goal of making oneself happy.
You see I can look at my selfish behavior and know that I have made decisions that were best for me, but I made sure I considered others feeling before I made any decisions. Many of the decisions weren’t favorable to the other party, but I did it without malice and pure honesty.
Know in the case of some of my EUM, many of them did not care if you or anybody else got hurt as long as they got what they wanted. There feelings were more important even if they knew they could mitigate some of the damage caused by their actions, they chose to be selfish.
See my belief if sometimes in life you have to put other peoples before your own especially if you know the impact on you will be minimal compared to the other person. The lack of empathy is probably one of the main reasons why some people can’t see beyond their feelings thus the selfishness rears it ugly head. Unfortunately, you teach people empathy so the chances of them “getting it” is slim to none.
I have to say that it has been a blessing to come home to BR. I have been gone for some time. Fallen back into the same dead in relationship. Sadly to say a 10+ year on the off again toxic relationship. Starting from the beginning again with NC. But this time it seems different its like I have a feeling this is going to be the last time I fall for his mind games. I can’t explain the feeling or describe it but it screams I’m done!!!. I realized I had the power all along to end this. He can no longer control how I feel. His words can no longer can hurt me. It all began and will end with me. I have acknowledged the part I played in this relationship. I have accepted my share of the blame. I allowed my boundaries to be busted. I replied to the texts. I consented to the late night calls that ultimately ended in sex and unfulfilled promises of better days. Enough is Enough I’m Done!!!
Good for you, Enough. I have to say, it does sound like you are done! It doesn’t sound like you’re beating yourself up about this. I hear you taking ownership of your part – it’s so liberating, isn’t it? To acknowledge the truth about our contributions and why – without berating ourselves or taking the blame for “everything.” Sometimes, I think of myself as being a scientist around the person I’m recovering from – like I was running experiments and looking at the evidence. When it’s all said and done, 10 years of “research” proved your hypothesis: THIS SUCKS. Sounds like you’re publishing the results and moving on! lol All the best to you…
Thank You Michelle.
I decided to reopen a past online diary I once had about two years back. I was shocked at my entries. There were moments written I was proud of most of my goals accomplished. But!!! one thing did not change HIM!!!. I sounded so hurt and destroyed in my entries. I almost cried reading them. How could I have let this man make me feel this way? Why did I take him back? Why after all the name calling? The verbal abuse I allowed him back for an additional 2 years. I just wanted to go back in time and shake my former self!!. I was in such a bad place. He had been core of hurt for some time now. Its liberating to think it’s finally over. I have accomplished so much in my life now. A recent college graduate working enjoying life. Planning on continuing my education mind you in my mid 30’s. With no help nor motivation from him by the way. I think it secretly eats him up that my life is not in his control anymore. No Contact for a couple of days now. Its still early and I know his pattern so well. I feel like a 20lb weight has been lifted.
Some of the steps/strategies that worked for me (though as said, ongoing process):
– NC – but normalising him (so that he wasn’t this Great Forbidden)
– Health – meditation, exercise, mostly good food, therapy for a short while
– A long break from anyone who made me feel uneasy or agitated (regardless of whose fault that feeling was/ what was behind it). A commitment to be around people I knew liked and supported me.
– Working on habit of taking 90% of blame for things – and not letting others influence my assessments beyond a certain point – I used to apologise for other people’s stuff all the time or apologise for my legitimate response to it.
– Stopped dating EUMs – even for fun. It was making me good at being an EUW among other things.
– Reading this site and Brainpickings and novels, and actually using the strategies and ideas and reflecting on them to see what has worked
– Gratitude and praise – daily writing what grateful for and what I did well that day (feels infantile and naff at first but starts to change thinking in perceptible ways.)
– watching my normal reaction before acting on it and scanning for and testing out other responses to see if more effective and satisfying (and loving and enjoyable)
– Looking for integrity in others and making sure I was also offering it – being able to believe myself has been one of the most determinative
– more humour, playfulness and relaxation generally
– Letting go of the story – or at least shelving it
– Implemented BR and other principles in my job and about my job too – also easier once I started liking my job and feeling good at it.
– Part of my job involves teaching and I know that some service and community building is the way through all this – it’s not about being alone and figuring it all out.
– Sounds trite but acceptance – really seeing and accepting what has happened – all the ugly, soul-twisting truth of it – and accepting it as your starting point
Anyway, could write more but it’s not squarely on topic. Just to say you should be hopeful – it’s very much possible to get through. 🙂
Elle,
I have been reading a lot about acceptance and forgiveness. Thanks for sharing this list. I say this all the time. I wish there was a pill that I could take to erase all of the PAIN or just forget this portion of my life. I wasted too much time on someone who NEVER loved me. No one who loves someone would pull a stunt like he did. NEXT. I am working on reframing my story.
Oh love what you said about not making him bigger than life. Cause really he isn’t all that. He has some major issues. Until he manages those some other poor soul is gonna get what he gave me a pain in the ***. SMILE.
Congratulations Elle on your upcoming nuptials! Thank you for sharing your list of strategies. I recently made one myself and there are some similarities to yours. I am going to implement a couple strategies from your list that could beneficial to me in my own life. Cheers!
Thank you so much Elle – this list is great! I appreciate you taking the time to offer some helpful strategies. It is so wonderful to hear a success story. The possibility of getting through this and thriving is exciting!
Congrats again and best wishes to you!
XO
Nat, I could kiss you. You are speakin’ my language. So many times having boundaries gets mistaken as bad ‘selfishness’.
I didn’t want to stick around and watch my ex drink himself to death, so I’m a bitch; I didn’t want to stick around a father with a history of violence so I’m an insensitive, heartless cold ungrateful child.
Ghastly. The world would chastise an angel if it sang for itself…
Michelle, I love what you wrote about artists and their work. I had quite a revelation while dating a musician. He was writing songs of current events and timely social beliefs, however, it was a commercial attempt to promote himself as a song-writer, and did not come from anyplace of understanding or compassion. In fact, his songs were hypocritical lies.
He was the last musician I dated.
I do know there is a difference in being selfish verses being a self-love person with boundaries, esteem, moral compass, goals, and other positive attributes!
@Angel, my ex-EUM fancied himself a writer. As an actual writer who makes a living at it, I would occasionally agree to read something he’d written. While he was extremely proficient with verbiage, he wrote like a bloodless butler. Always observing, never engaging. Just like he was in life!
Diane, Reading your post reminded me that my former client/friend, who I now suspect is a sociopath, asked me to edit a story he wrote. I was shocked by how cold and empty it was…completely lacking warmth and empathy. The bottom line of the story was -in God we trust but clients pay cash. I suspect he didn’t realize how he came across.
My thoughts?
Yes I have dumped the poor romantic relationships but still have been clinging on to the up keep of the image of a distant family relationship with people, who I know, make me feel pain consistently and have no wish or ability to hear me – no matter what I do.
Yes I’ve been doing this so as to still appear good (read unselfish) while also keeping up other lesser boundaries (which have helped my life loads) but the reality is – I am not just doing it to appear less selfish I am also doing it because I’m s888 scared of the storm of hell they are able to unleash on me – when they feel like it – whilst protecting themselves – in the form of punishment and retribution (for them) when I withdraw my family services expected (as other normal families would that don’t abuse their family members ie reg. communication, birthday presents, visits when they want etc…)
This I think is contributing to my pain – putting it simply, I am too frightened to even set ultimate boundaries with them that also can make me appear rude or ‘bad’ to others so that not only do they attack me but other righteous (read ignorant) people thinking they know everything – join in also – as they have before.
So yes I feel trapped upholding the abuse by not being able to be fully selfish enforce boundaries for everything that makes me feel pain and put my feelings/needs first – even though I have lessened their ability to do so considerably by imposing strict boundaries on phone calls, visits (with help from police, etc).
I know that I feel increasingly better and good on my own – than I have ever felt before – with NO communication from this person – EVERY communication from them triggers further pain for me EVERY TIME and they have contributed to completely destroying my relationships with all my family – through seeking retribution and support from them all – ie scapegoating which they have no intention of ever letting go off.
I was feeling ok and had worked hard to but received another co-depending communication from them – where if I assert boundaries WILL make me look an nasty person – in writing for them to show around – if I don’t set a boundary (which they ignore when its not going to make them look bad) I feel I am not defending myself and still open to more…
Ok I am working my way through it…Yep its a set up and I am not going down that route – so the best I can do is NOT read their communications or reply to them ever again….
I am not going to let today’s little bomb get to me – I am going to keep the phone off and get on with what I need to do for me to feel good….and the first thing I am going to do is put some socks on for the incredibly cold feet I’ve got while sitting here and quench the thirst I’ve built up…
Hi Oona,
I am surprised to read that you are afraid to set up boundaries with some family members. I’ve read many of your comments, there are always insightful and good-sounding advice. You come across as self-assured and in charge. I am certain that you can handle whatever tantrum that person throws at you. Let them do their worst, you don’t need to prove your goodness to anybody. Just my opinion as a reader who appreciates your contributions on this blog.
Hi Oona, It sounds like an incredibly painful and stressful situation. When we set boundaries with really unhealthy people it’s very scary because we don’t know how far they will go in their counter move. It’s such a risky thing to do and that fear of the unknown is very real.
It’s wonderful you recognized the set up and you didn’t take the bait! Sounds like you’ve had lots of practice and know very well how to get yourself back on track!
Hope the feet are now toasty!
Verity they are!!! x2 pairs of socks! works a treat….
Yes Truth in Clarity it is VERY surprising after everything I have been through and written – I guess that is how well denial can really grip us? – you think you have everything sorted and you project that outwards – then someone dies and wham! You are right – why am I trying to prove my worth to anyone in my family? If they don’t know that by now! Someone once told me to – face my fears – and I think this is possibly the ultimate one – the one that I was/am still cradling and its got to go.
This is THE person who taught me NOT to have any needs or that any of my feelings were valid and to ignore/suppress them.
Hi Oona,
Whatever that fear is, I hope it’s nothing that jeopardize your personal safety. I learned a lot from your posts as well as many others here. Stay strong:-)
Such a good read. I am 7 months out of a relationship with an AC/EUM who would constantly tell me how demanding I was. I was constantly looking for an indication that the relationship was moving forward. I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised as he had cheated on me 6 months in and I still stayed with him another 2 years. During that period we never moved in together and he wouldn’t talk about possible marriage and kids. He always would say I needed to work on things before he would discuss it, and that I was too demanding. I kept trying to adjust my expectations lower and lower until I finally realized how little I was getting and how much I was giving. The final line from him that pushed me to the edge, was after I tried one more time to gently request that we move in together, because I wanted our relationship to move forward he responded with:
“I should be flattered but I’m not.” That line, that no one should ever say to someone they love, woke me up real fast. Why should he be flattered? Why was he not? Why was I sticking around for someone and giving up all of myself for someone who clearly didn’t give two shits about me? His level of selfishness that was clearly being projected on to me was too much. I’m still working through a lot of bad feelings, especially since he now will not leave me alone after I made it clear I want nothing to do with him. Anyways, I’ve definitely learned that A) my feelings are valid and B) I deserve better!! I’m so thankful that I found your book The Fallback Girl, and this site. So so helpful and describes exactly my experience!
Wow Not so smart, what a wake up line – certainly trumps the one I was given which was, “we need to decide if we’re going to work towards moving in together, or break up”. After constantly being told how things were always on my terms (they weren’t, they just weren’t always on his) and how I wasn’t *insert shortcoming of the day* enough, I couldn’t understand why he was so shocked when I chose the latter. He’d been maintaining the status quo, complaining our relationship wasn’t progressing but at the same time setting me (I realise now) impossible standards to meet. He made it so that moving in together was never really going to be on the cards.
Sorry he’s still pestering you. Mad, isn’t it? They say such unloving things and then try and get back with us??? Such twisted, f’ed up thinking on their part. I had it too but it’s dwindled now to the odd text message that I delete straight away (well I take a screenshot first, just in case it escalates and I need evidence of harassment). If he is harassing you, can you report it to the police? They might be able to persuade him to leave you alone.
Stick with the NC anyway, and btw your name should be Smarter now – you got out! ????
Not so smart you are very smart and don t feel alone in this. They are who they are, personality perhaps but character severely lacking. After a two year sort of relationship, no labels, and when I prompted him to communicate just a little bit between our meet-ups, his e-dispatch message to me was beyond cruel. Basically telling me that he loved the time he spent with me but that he could easily get on with his life when I was not there. And can you imagine that I joined him in the ring for a second round. Same toilet, new s&&&&.
It is a struggle for many women to act in a way that is even self-serving, let alone “selfish”. I think we are socialized from such a young age to be giving and selfless and kind, that it can take a life time to unlearn these habits. They are not bad qualities in and of themselves, but when they permeate into other areas of your life and make it difficult for us to stand up for ourselves and have boundaries, it is a serious problem. Men don’t learn these things the same way and therefore often have a better relationship with their boundaries and self-esteem.
I had to interact with ex-MM at work today about something and I just hate him now! He so condescending now and every time I interact with him I am left hating myself and feeling terrible about how shitty my life is compared to his. My life is really not bad (he just makes me feel that way because I know that is how he wants to see it, oh and because they are so frickin wealthy!) Sorry that that hasn’t been my life M.O., but I am working on making my life better. Why do I always feel this way?? Ugh. I hate interacting with this ridiculous AC who sees himself as the world’s most amazing guy. What a dipshit. I can’t wait to get fully away from the hot air that he spreads around here about himself.
Hi Leanne,
Please do not give him that much power over you. He doesn’t get to control how you feel. Just because he has money doesn’t him better than any human being. That’s not even a factor when evaluating someone’s character and qualities. As you said, your life isn’t that bad. Be grateful and enjoy it as it is right now, and patiently work towards your goals and dreams.
**typo**
Just because he has money doesn’t make him better than any other human being.
Leanne,
I so know how you feel, and often the interactions I have can now make me think he’s a complete dipshit. I actually ended up reading his LinkedIn profile this morning and was disgusted by how much he’d bigged himself up on there. I realise I shouldn’t have been looking because it’s not really in the NC rules, but I’m feeling a bit nostalgic because of my trip next week and wanted something to remind me what he dick his is. LinkedIn worked wonders.
You know if he is gloating over you it shows how lucky you are to be free. What an asshole.
My language is bad today – apologies.
You’re doing great Leanne, keep it up.
Hugs
Remember Colly – if you contacted LinkedIn and are on Facebook or other social sites – these things can be tracked without you knowing it and a friends request from the person you were ‘just feeling a bit nostalgic about’ can be issued off the back of your ‘secret’ break in Non Contact on LinkedIn – which you believe has come from Mr D, to which you are tempted to reply to because it seems to come out of the blue – only it hasn’t – it came from you initiating a break in NC.
What goes around comes around Colly – watch out – the last thing you want is him starting to sniff around you now or him thinking he can pick you up again if he just gives you a little more charm and flattery than usual- then revert straight back to who he really is again.
Busy yourself finding and making plans to find a nice man to care and be interested in Colly – every time you get any of these urges – start with working out what kind of man you really want and how you are actively going to meet him. Good Luck.
Colly is married with a family.
Choices: door number 1 husband and family
door number 2 not the married man from work situation, nor current husband, but future guy
Simple pleasures
Thank you, your post was what I needed to shake me out of my stupor. Last night I was full of a cold and had one too many drinks at a party I didn’t feel comfortable at and I’d lost my way. I’ve made the choice of door number 1, and want to make it work.
I’m just having a wobble because of having to travel to where exMOM is – normally have the benefit of physical distance even though still have to work with him. This is the first time I will have to be co-located since it all finished back in Sept. Glad to say we won’t be in the same meetings. Honestly, I feel like I’d be horrified to see him, but can’t cope very well with the uncomfortable feelings that brings up. I also feel a bit selfish and mean because I turned down his dinner invite. This is my self destructive people pleaser that I am battling to ignore.
Thanks again for the wake up call
Colly, don’t Ignore, Should Yourself, or Forget. If you don’t give room to your feelings, they’ll grow stronger. Respect all of your ‘selves’, they are all worthy. Tell your people-pleaser part that you know she means well, but you can’t cope with a face-to-face right now. Not true that you shouldn’t feel sad for your loss: the love was yours, and it is a huge loss. Don’t forget, don’t sleep over it, just make room for your feelings. Take a time-out and let yourself feel the sadness of all of it. V.
Thank you V for being so supportive. Because of my situation I feel a great amount of shame about being upset about the loss, I feel I don’t have the right. I also feel silly because I’m grieving over someone that didn’t exist, the real him is a total AC and not the dream I had in my head.
I actually had to turn him down yesterday again, he makes me again and asked me for dinner. I said no again. My situation hasn’t changed, nor has his, and if I said yes I’d be letting him know it was OK to be an AC – I won’t do that.
So, sat on a plane this morning, feeling very sad that things have turned out this way, that my fairy tale isn’t waiting at the other end of my journey for me, but pleased I’ve stood true to myself and said no. It’s going to be a tough week.
What is it with shame… Such a useless layer over all the pain…
You are grieving for your lost dream as you say, is it a small matter? You know why one invents dreams like these? To escape reality. Meaning that where you live is not ok. This might have well started in childhood and you have kept it as a coping mechanism which surfaces in your adult life too when you’re in a difficult situation. Change your reality to a better one and you’ll feel less the need for such a dream. Small steps, everyday choices, like you’re already doing.
Also, I read your post below. He is panicking. I’m sorry for him, I really don’t believe that people are inherently bad, but if you’re drawn into this there will be two people who will feel miserable. It’s a drug, don’t take it. But Colly if you do fall for this again, don’t beat yourself too much either. It’s just better if you don’t, that’s all. Best wishes, V.
Thanks Oona, he’s already a LinkedIn contact so won’t see any kind of new activity from me – thankfully. I genuinely did it to remind myself what an idiot he is – it worked.
I have to deal with contact from him 5-6 days a week sadly, never been able to quite get away from shared projects. You may have read in an earlier post that I have to travel to work in the office he is at next week and have already turned down a dinner invite from him for when I’m there (that he sent using a meeting request in Outlook – yes really).
I’m just struggling with the week in front of me, feeling sad and regretful that I had to turn down his dinner invitation. Just sad, wishing things weren’t this way. But…they are…he’s an AC.
You know I am beating myself up because I know he’s an AC and feel like I shouldn’t feel sad about the loss because of knowing that. I know it’s not helpful.
Yuk, maybe just need to sleep and try to forget
Leanne – I am smiling to myself because you have now moved into a different stage of grieving away from the poor relationship. Reality. This IS the man you chose not to be able to see while he charmed you and put you into a sleep walk – but the tinted glasses are off now – well done! and this is how you protect yourself in the future also.
You know you had things to work on – and under immense pressure you managed it – keep it up as you have done and the tactics you used will also help you find people around you who don’t make you feel like this. Be proud of what you have done for yourself – give yourself a healthy treat(one that doesn’t harm you in any way)! You deserve it.
Thank you Oona and everyone on here that has supported me through the last couple months! I feel fantastic this weekend (had maybe one moment of feeling down about him.. in an entire weekend!) I have decided to stop drinking for awhile and am also kicking caffeine out to get my anxiety under control. My counselor told me to spend time on the bus meditating (instead of angry journaling and to do listing, and taht has really helped!) I feel like my old self again and I can see that in time I will continue to care less and less about him.. I already do 🙂
Applied for a few new positions I saw posted today. Got in touch with a charity I’ve been wanting to work with but never felt I had time. Saw friends on the weekend and just relaxed. Life is good.. and it is getting better.
I give you this update mostly to say.. THANK YOU!! to everyone on here who has helped with comments, support and words of encouragement. i could not have gotten to this place without all of your kindness.
THIS RIVER
Music and Lyrics By JJ Grey
Stare at a picture, but there’s nothing for it
I pull on the bottle and watch this river roll on by
Trying to find purpose, trying to see meaning
Trying to make sense of the nonsense that I’ve called my life
Cause only this river can bear me to safety
Only this river can bear me away
See them all work and play, there on the other bank
Warm in their houses while I face my cold alone
Guess I’ve been a drinking away to keep the wolves of my mind at bay
But if you run, you die, and I’m just too tired to care
Cause only this river can bear me to safety
Only this river can bear me away
I feel her flowing, flowing right through me
I hear her whispers drowning my words
Cause only this river, only this river, only this river
can save me, from myself
Where did my soul go? Where did my spirit hide?
Why won’t they rescue me from the pain in my mind?
Cause only this river in all of her glory
Only this river can bear me away
Only this river
Only this river
Only this river…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi8Tl1EphOs
Somewhere closer to the very very the end of our relationshit with EUM, I had a full fledged anxiety attack on a plane. I went to the bathroom on a plane and it hit me there. Anxiety attacks are different from panic attacks but they can have pretty serious impact as well. I spent some time there and when I was finally somewhat ready, I went back to my seat. After we landed, I immediately texted the EUM telling him about the attack. Describing some of the thoughts I had during it. He replied (via text) “How can I help?”. I replied something neutral (hey, I was already trained by stonewalling not to be direct or ask for much). And HE HAS NOT REPLIED FOR OVER 48 frigging HOURS. It hurt me even more than the attack. Why ask what he can do for me and then not care what I answer? What if I needed him to call? Or just be there with me via text? Or send me help?
I remember staying in the middle of that airport in a foreign country, staring at my phone and waiting for his reply which came a day after.
He later told me I was being needy. I cannot possibly expect him to answer fast and all the time. Why? I have no idea. And up to this day I oscillate between thinking that it was a perfect metaphor of our whole relationship or that I am indeed needy and have unrealistic expectations.
My family background is that of invalidation. My father has outright told me lies when I have confronted him about the things I saw him do. My mother is more or less the same. I am trying so hard not to be needy (now not for the sake of the EUM but for myself) but very often I am at a loss where the line is drawn.
At the end of that relationshit and even still now, when I have my bad days and allow him to get closer, I hear him say that I am needy and have so many expectations. I decided to go back into therapy also largely because of that – because I don’t know which way is up. If I am needy and want something above normal (in quantity or quality) then how come I still did not have even the basics with him? It feels like I wanted the very basic things – being open about our feelings/not hiding, having access to each other, making this relationship and each other a priority, finding time and space, making effort and being consistent and considerate – and he kept telling me it was not normal. But also kept telling me how much he wanted to wake up and fall asleep with me and go to Sunday markets holding my hand and introduce me to everyone.
I am at a low point today so I hope at least some of it is making any sense.
Why,
Seeking comfort when you’re upset is normal, and HE was selfish and cruel for calling you needy. Is your anxiety BECAUSE of him or is or intensified because of him? He asked how he could help because that makes him APPEAR to be caring. Words with no meaning. I’m sorry. You didn’t have the “basics” maybe because you felt undeserving based on his treatment of you. Your expectations WERE normal. Just because he told you otherwise doesn’t mean it’s true. Trust your instincts. You DO know.
Why,
Here is a hug from me. You want to be loved and respected. This does not sound needy to me. It is a shame that people have to make you feel guilty about something that you should expect. What isn’t normal is for him not to respond to you for days when you said you had anxiety attack. Then not to be genuine about helping YOU. That is not normal. Today has been tough for me to. I hope you find PEACE. Hugs.
Why,
I can sooo relate. I had a bf for 5 years. I have broken up with him 3 times now over stuff like this. Two times it was because I was really sick (one cold and one stomach bug) and was having trouble getting my child ready for school. He just sat in front of the tv and never helped even thou I said I was sick! I just got excuses like ‘I don’t want to get sick’ or ‘you’re so independent how am I to know you wanted help’. I ‘tried’ again over what are empty promises of ‘working on it’ though he cannot give me one example of something he is doing to work on it such as writing, talking to someone, reading, etc.
Even last night I was pissed because we went to a restaurant and he was critical as we walked there, and then made jokes at my expense several times during the meal to the chef. Then when I protested he rolled his eyes at me! Then ignored me the rest of the night by watching tv in another room until he wanted sex (which I said no). Then was surprised I was mad at him this morning and basically called me too sensitive.
It reminded me of your story of when you need help for something and it’s not there. Just empty words and excuses.
@Why, if you make a constant habit of having anxiety attacks or other issues and he’s just kind of over all the drama, then maybe you are “needy.” But it doesn’t sound that way to me. This doesn’t sound like the kind of thing you are constantly doing. That you would question whether or not you are needy shows how successful he has been gaslighting you. No, it’s not you. It really is him. I hope you are out of this? I couldn’t tell, you went back and forth from past to present tense.
Say Something, MJ, Allison, Diane,
Thank you for your feedback, ladies.
Allison, yes, the overall vibe of what you were saying definitely resonates with me.
I am always in awe of how much this space is filled with support and understanding. And tough love too! 😉
Why are there so many men like this? Why so many narcissistic a-holes?… Maybe as many as there are women to put up with the behavior? It is reassuring to see that I am not alone, but so freightening at the same time!!!
I’m in need of some support. I had a situation at work well over a week ago. And I’m still struggling with the aftermath.
I’ve been working very hard on setting and maintaining boundaries, even when I’m afraid to do so. To override the people-pleasing, conflict avoidant tendencies.
I work on a contract basis with this facility and have been there many, many times in the past six years. I have had a good relationship with the staff and students. I treat them all with dignity and respect. I am the only person they request in their facility.
I had an aide trying to get me to change the plans. I explained that I understood why she wanted to change the plans and work on this other thing, but that we would do that other thing at x time. The regular teacher develops the plans and I follow them. I can make changes if I feel it is necessary. The aide tried another time. Again, I said no.
Before I left for lunch I let all of the aids and students know what we were doing and when. That we were doing this other thing at a specific time – well after lunch. When I came down after lunch, they were all working on the very thing I had just said we weren’t going to do until later. The aide decided that it needed to be done, so she told everyone to do it!
I was pissed. She completely disregarded my instructions.
I mentioned it to the regular teacher and she said that she would talk to her later the next day. Since I know that this teacher hates confrontation and would do anything to avoid it, I figured it would get swept under the rug. So I asked her if she minded if I say something myself. She said, not at all! Good for you – it scares me.
I calmly pulled the aide aside and asked her if she had understood what I had wanted. She said yes, then launched into that she knew better what needed to be done, and that the aides often tell the teachers what to do. I waited for her t finish and let her know that I was clear in my instructions and that I felt disrespected.
She looked at me, annoyed and turned her back to walk away from me saying “I’m not doing this”. I was surprised and really disappointed.
I asked her to go upstairs with me so we could discuss this with one of the regular teachers assigned to this group. As we got in the room, the teacher was on the phone. The aide launched into this verbal tirade. She started saying that she had been in the system for many years and that “she will not be dictated to by me”.
I let her know that was the issue here. It is my responsibility to lead and hers to follow, not the other way around.
The regular teacher heard her say this to me. We attempted to have a conversation, but the aide would not stop talking. She went on and on defending her choice to do what she wanted. Many times during her tirade she mad comments about me being “so calm”, it really seem to irritate her. Then she acted the victim saying she felt disrespected. Then she would ask me why I felt disrespected, and then would not allow me to answer for her talking over me. I let he know that she had her chance to speak without being interrupted and I would like the same courtesy. She rolled her eyes, turned away, and wouldn’t look at me while I was speaking. At one point to regular teacher started to point out that I was doing my job by following the plan. Well, the aide didn’t want to hear that either, so she started talking over the teacher. Saying how much does, and then threatening not to come in when I was there. She walked out of the room after making similar statements. We were dismissed. Later she threatened via text to go to the principal.
The regular teacher said she would talk to the other teacher and the principal. She said I didn’t deserve that. She said she would back me up.
She didn’t follow up with me, so I asked her what happened. She said they were meeting a few days away (clearly not important to her). I let her know it was important to me. I was due to work there again in a few days and didn’t want to go in blind.
A couple of days later I received a text saying that the aide was reminded I was in charge and that I shouldn’t expect an apology. I left a message with the principal to call me so I could get his take on the best way for me to proceed. He never returned my call.
I cancelled the assignment in that facility. My authority/credibility had been completely undermined. I felt/feel so hurt, angry and deeply disappointed. I get that she is an employee and I am a contract person. I thought they valued me. They don’t. I thought they would consider my feelings and needs. They didn’t. They did what was easiest for them. I feel dismissed and betrayed.
I feel good about sticking up for myself but also feel very hurt and sad and alone.
Your thoughts are appreciated.
Veracity,
I’m sorry you’ve had this experience and that you felt so bad you cancelled your contract.
When I read you story I was feeling that it was an exhausting level of drama created – by the aide, but it had grabbed you and pulled you down.
I think you handled the aide very well in being calm, but perhaps should have walked away and let her carry on with her histrionics alone. My guess is the head would just not have time or the energy for the drama, and I wouldn’t take it as a personal slight that he didn’t deal with quickly and didn’t push the aide to apologise. I have a big team myself and honestly I’m so busy I find any in fighting extremely wearing.
So, you’ve made the decision to move on, and I get the feeling it wasn’t all about this argument with the aide. You mentioned something that made me think you felt inferior being a contractor rather than an employee. I understand you might feel less empowered in the post but please don’t feel less than.
So, time to pick up the positive, an new opening in your life you can fill with something that makes you feel happy.
I hope you feel better soon
Hi Veracity,
I agree with Colly that it was not personal and whoever is in charge did not make time. Most likely there was a simple reminder of the rules. Perhaps requesting to NOT work with this one person would make a difference. Some people are used to getting their way, no matter what. Obviously, you encountered one of them. You approached a difficult situation professionally, but it doesn’t guarantee cooperation.
Way to stand your ground.
You too, Colly!
Veracity, I think you handled this situation with grace and professionalism.
There’s literally nothing else that could have been done. I am not sure I understand why you think your credibility with the institution has been underminded.
You had an issue with an aid, you tried to solve it yourself (one on one! without involving the students), then when you saw it was not going to improve the situation, you’ve reported to your superiors. You were calm and professional at every step of this exhausting process.
The aid is inadequate. There’s nothing you could have done to ‘fix’ her. Just reading about her weird behavior felt exhausting. I’ve had many examples like this one. If you were a subcontractor at our company, I’d definitely hire you in the future and make sure you never crossed paths with that aid. If anything, you’ve gained some credit points with me 😉
As for the reasons why they kept that aid and ‘preferred’ her instead of you: I find it to be true in 99% in those cases, especially in academia, that there are some internal politics involved that us, as an outsider, often do not know about. Maybe she’s sick, maybe she’s someone’s relative, maybe the school gave promise not to fire her until a specific date. There may be many many other reasons and none of them have anything to do with you.
Again, you behaved in a professional and graceful manner. Be proud 😉
Colly, Say Something, & Why, Thank you for your support!!
I know it’s not personal, but it feels personal. I think that has something to do with all of them blowing off, not just one person. I’m sure there’s old stuff piling on here. It’s not a new feeling – feeling unsupported.
I see what you mean about the contract vs employee, Colly. I don’t feel inferior. Less empowered, yes. Actually, in many ways they treat me like an employee. I’m invited to the office parties and special events. I think that’s why it hurts so much.
Why, I believe my credibility/authority was undermined with that group because the aide disregarded my instructions and was very disrespectful without consequences. Now the other aides and even students will likely wonder if she can get away with it, why can’t they?
It was exhausting. I felt bad for her because the situation must have triggered something in her.
Yes, I do believe it is politics. So much easier not to deal with the paperwork, fight the union, etc..
Thank you again. Your feedback is very helpful. I’m going to keep trusting that if I keep doing my best and taking good care of myself that eventually I will attract loyal people who treat me with respect.
Okay, I’m giving myself permission to feel proud too! 🙂
Veracity I am so sorry about this situation. I am so so sorry. I think I know what’s going on here, I have found myself in that position so many times that I have decided to take a few months off work to sort myself out. I don’t want to go in any further details ’cause it would be getting too personal, and as you said and I agree with, I don’t want to overstep a boundary with myself here. But I think of the advice you gave me last time and send it back to you with a giant virtual hug. V.
Thank you, V. It sounds like you do know what’s going on here. I’m sorry that you have also found yourself in this position many times. I understand the need to take time away to help yourself get a handle on it. I also understand and respect your boundary.
I chose to go contract instead of being an employee because a version of this seems to happen in my employment situations. This was a very light version of it, but I’m not sticking around to see if it gets worse. My last two employers were angry, controlling, and abusive and of course denied any responsibility/accountability. I’ve followed that advice and am aware of that part, but having yet figured out the rest yet. Big virtual hug right back. Veracity
HI all, what is the general step for someone who just WON’T go away? My friend has been NC with an EUM-narc for one year and she has been doing SO well. About 6 weeks ago, he began emailing her. She has him blocked, however, he keeps emailing from different accounts. She has ignored everything, but recently he upped the ante and told her he was going to be her neighbor. That freaked her out, but she ignored anyway. A day later, he emailed again to say that he was going to live right next door. Now she is REALLY freaking. She has worked SO hard to get over this AC. I told her either tell him “if you email one more time I am reporting you for harassment” or to keep ignoring. Advice?
Um..report him to the police? Even if she doesn’t obtain a restraining order, the police will most likely visit him and this should scare him well. Sometimes it’s enough for these cowards.
Diane, I would consider this stalking… tell her to get a restraining order.
@Sue and @Why, yes and he just wrote her again today. She is still not responding. We live in one of the biggest cities in the world, it’s unlikely police will put resources to stopping an ex-boyfriend from emailing too much (I had a woman bite me and the cops didn’t care), but I still think it might be worth it for her to try and file a restraining order or at least threaten to do it. Right now she is waiting to see if he gets bored of this game. It is obviously bothering him enormously that she refuses to respond to him.
I am not sure about the specifics of it depending on the state/country but the police has to react, they are simply obliged by law, if they have a request of this sort. As I said, it does not have to be a restraining order. It usually starts with them visiting that man with email diarrhea.
You know how 5-year-olds always want Mom’s attention when Mom gets on the phone – “Mom. Mom. Mom. Mom. Mom. Mom. Mom. Mom. Mom.” That’s what this ex is doing. He doesn’t miss a quality relationship. He misses the attention. Maybe his harem is running low and he figures your friend is the easiest one to woo back.
Police? Is that really necessary? Has he a history of being violent …if so, then OK…police may be necessary.
@Elgie, “Mom mom mom” that’s exactly what he’s doing!
He has no history of being violent other than violently annoying.
Err headf**k, email from exMOM saying he’s contacted his lawyer for a divorce this morning and still loves me. Wow, pretty drastic response to me turning down a dinner date! Don’t worry BR readers, I can smell the BS from a long way off. What a weird week this is going to be. I think being very busy in meetings will be a good thing for me.
O.M.F.G.
Please don’t respond! Please wait. Breathe. Wait.
Oh wow. That’s something new. Not new in the general scenario of EU men. But with this particular man. I can tell you that only since this January – and we were not involved in anything aside from work for over a year by now – EUM called, texted and told me in person that he was “in the process of breaking up” with his girlfriend and I should wait for him at least 3 times already. One of those times he actually cried. I think you can guess where he’s now, at the end of April, right? Yep, still with his girlfriend. Having sex and going to every event as a couple.
And this is considering that I have not even asked him to tell me any of that personal info. Sometimes it seems like he’s so desperate to get his narc supply now that he has established a permanent residence in Delusia where none of those words or half-assed promises contradict his actions.
I was also going through my old emails and found one where told me he was going to leave his gf from 2012. 2012!
Colly, Colly, Colly, I know it’s so tempting to believe them. I did this so many times with an ex. Please take care of yourself. Even if he does file for a divorce from his pregnant wife, he’ll need over a year of therapy to straighten his shit out. Not to mention – would you really want to be with a man who leaves a woman in such a vulnerable position?
That person is only a fraction of a man. What he is doing, just only by saying this crap to you about the divorce, is treason to his wife. I cannot imagine how it’d have hurt her if she found out.
From all the stories you told us about him I am starting to get a feeling that it’s not his first cheater rodeo!
Oh my… His wife is pregnant?? This is really really bad. I tend to be tolerant towards lots of crap, but this is really really bad. I don’t know how it works for other people, but if the person I was seeing at the time had told me that he was expecting a child with his partner, I would have vomited then and there and ended it immediately. V.
Whoa there, I’m not seeing him, and the pregnancy makes me want to vomit too. The pregnancy came along a few months after it all ended.
So, drama unfolded last night. Got back to hotel from having dinner and he appears in the lobby – with slightly beaten face. I didn’t know what to do so invited him to my room to talk for a bit. It’s OK, didn’t do anything naughty before anyone asks. Turns out he’d gone home and talked divorce, been punched repeatedly then packed a bag and left.
So talking revealed that threatening divorce to each other was a bit of a habit in their household. Nice. So anyway he left after an hour (not before telling me how much he loves me) to go to a hotel. Two hours later I had a text saying she’s promised to change and he had gone home to give it another chance.
Odd, am honestly just here asking myself if that really happened. I have no idea how I feel yet. I know I never had the urge to skip off into the sunset with him. It also confirmed my suspicion that the divorce thing was BS.
Really really strange. I want to go home to my nice quiet life.
Sorry Colly the comment was not really directed at you. I didn’t know about the pregnancy but I did know that you have been NC for quite some time now because I remember well your most recent posts. It was just an impulsive comment, I was just shocked to read about it. V.
PS Needless to say I am back in the NC saddle. This is definitely not a person I want in my life. I feel…nothing right now apart from that he behaved in a very predictable way, and lucky to not be in that marriage. I’m interested to see how I process this one in the next few days.
I know I made a mistake in talking with him, but didn’t know what else to do. I would do so with anyone I know that had been hurt.
Colly,
Try saying the same thing back to him. That you are finally going to come clean to your husband and get a divorce too, so you can be together.
Then this guy will backtrack faster than you’ve ever seen. Watch him run. A big part of the reason he chose to cheat with you is because you’re a married woman, not in spite of it. Last thing he wants is you being actually available to him.
Agreed @Crystal. When the ex-MM I was seeing in the fall kept waffling and waffling, I was consistent in saying I like him and I up-ed the ante on his BS waffling by saying I was breaking up with my partner so we could potentially be together (all this pre-pregnancy announcement too). But regardless of the baby, he back-tracked so fast it was shocking.. and then the back and forth, back and forth ad naseum.
I’m sure he likes you Colly, I’m sure he wishes he could be with you on some level, but he doesn’t seem capable of it and this seems like an endless world of pain for you. Get off the roller coaster. It was SO challenging for me to do so as well, but it is way, way better out here, away from the constant BS and unavailability that is all this man can give you. Good luck this week!! hugs
Say Something, I couldn’t reply above to your response to Elgie R.
In reading your response, your thoughts about how it has affected you, reminded me of the year when my family members died. It shook my foundation and stripped my confidence. I wonder if this experience did this to you – shook your confidence in your ability to trust your instincts about people. Things like: If he could fool you so well, what else are you missing? Can you trust yourself with the next guy? Does this resonate with you?
I also wonder if someone else in your past did something similar to you.
It’s an awful feeling – that feeling of being stuck and not knowing how to get unstuck.
Hugs, Veracity
Thank you Veracity,
I’m sorry for your losses. Although I don’t know any specific details, I know the impact must have been significant for you to mention it.
The way I feel is actually worse than when my father died, and maybe it’s because he didn’t do it on purpose as an act of betrayal. It was long ago, when I was in college. I missed one day of classes and made the Dean’s list that semester. The experience, while devastating, changed me in that I didn’t want to tell people (instructors/ other students) because I didn’t want to deal with them “feeling bad” for me. I also started becoming super aware and sensitives about things I said and did, and the way people in general behaved. That has never left me.
Since the BGE debacle, my grandmother has also died. I was with her. And to this day I feel guilty that my reaction to losing her has been dampened by my continued BGE grief. He’d gone with me to visit her once and, at the time, that meant the world to me.
I crave some security and stability in this world. When I say that I mean that I want to be able to trust and depend on someone in a basic way. I truly thought I’d found that guy. For the first time. Ever. Different than my ex-husband. We never had that kind of deep connection. The kind I’ve always wanted. The kind I’ve never had.
“What else am I missing?” you ask. And “the next guy?”… I am stuck wondering how BGE would seemingly forge an emotional connection with me and then be able to STOP. Complete retraction. You were great. Thanks. Bye. His actual words: “sometimes this happens in dating” which to me screamed passive-aggressive, removed, minimized, and absolutely no accountability. It just happened. Out of nowhere.
Veracity, sure there are a myriad of “little things” along the way that would fall in the “disappointment/ you let me down” category. But this guy did me in. And yes, I let him.
I tested the waters, and finally decided it was safe to go in. I didn’t venture out over my head, but I also didn’t know there was an existing undercurrent. He knew, but he took my hand and encouraged me the entire way, with a smile, his mesmerizing words and tone of voice. And then without warning, he let me go. “Sometimes this happens.” So I’m floundering, alone, stuck in that undercurrent. I can swim but I’m not that strong. I can see the shore, but it’s too far away. There is no lifeguard. It’s getting dark and I’m so tired. So tired. And scared. We were there together but now it’s just me. I’m screaming but nobody can hear me. He’s not coming back. But the water was so beautiful and the temperature was just right, and and I was in good hands. I didn’t go out alone. There were two of us. Now it’s not water, it’s quicksand. I will either escape, or drown, or stay in the swirl. And I have learned that what looks and feels safe and right and beautiful can suddenly become dangerous and harmful and ugly.
You’re welcome, Say Something.
Thank you for the condolences. Yes, I’m still grieving and the experience changed my perspective on just about everything. I will also say this, it was a gift. Not the losses of life of course, but the lessons that came from the experience. The lessons that are still coming. It has required me to face some very painful truths.
You get to choose how to respond to this, Say Something. It might not feel like you have a choice, but you do. I get the sense that you are stuck in the “I can’t believe he did this to me” or “I can’t believe I let him do this to me” or something similar stage. He did it. It hurts likes hell. Embrace it. Dive in and feel it all.
As others have mentioned here, I don’t believe you are doing yourself any favors by continuing to refer to him as BGE. I wonder if you would consider letting that go. I also wonder if that would help you to let him go.
“I crave some security and stability in this world. When I say that I mean that I want to be able to trust and depend on someone in a basic way.”
That’s a perfectly understandable and basic need and desire. You have to start with you first. Create stability and trust within yourself first. That is why I asked the questions that I did about your ability to trust yourself – whether it had been shaken by this experience. Focus on yourself, Say Something. I noticed your answers to my questions above were about how it relates to him, not you.
Veracity,
You said:
I get the sense that you are stuck in the “I can’t believe he did this to me” or “I can’t believe I let him do this to me” or something similar stage. He did it. It hurts likes hell. Embrace it. Dive in and feel it all.
You’re right. I still can’t believe. Crazy. I do feel it. EVERYDAY. The only way I could ever feel worse would be by breaking NC, which I won’t.
And I don’t see that my answers were not about me. I see them as being about him AND me. Maybe my perception is off. When I use the term BGE, I have mixed feelings. I still see him in two different capacities. I still see two different people. Cognitive Dissonance. I recognize that and I’m working on it.
Thank you
Natalie,
I am dumbfounded! I am about a month in to baggage reclaim…your window into all of this is amazing! I mean I read in your “About” that you got into this because of situations you found yourself in and started writing, but come on! It seems like most of what I have read has had a fleeting moment in my brain after a break up or other painful experience, but that the fact that you are so spot – thank you so much! There are so many ways I have been authentic in my life, but at the same time, I have been so sh*tty with myself! I am new to this wonderful (brand new break-up) and I am doing your unsent letter work right now. The thing is I have healed a lot of things with writing before, think I have solved something, and then I get right back into the same types of relationships again!
Regarding “unselfish” – omg! While I had to laugh about your description of tha altruistic person I also have to cry because for the love of …whatever…boy have I been there wayyy too many times! I have had thoughts (fleeting of course) when I am practicing this behavior, that deep down I am being selfish. or rather self absorbed, because I am once again filling that comfortable (but uncomfortable) insecurity just be seen as the good girl, the “cool girl”! And I am too grown for this! So exhausting! And I have to mention, that after a breakup, I have found myself trying to explain this very thing to a supportive friend or family member – how I get that inkling that my okness depended on them, and that I need to work on and take of some things with me – and there is ALWAYS someone – or everyone – that tells you you just have not met the right person yet! Really??? Because at that moment apparently, I slip right back into good girl, “salt of the earth”, “girl with a heart of gold from the wrong side of the tracks”! Ok, I am making myself laugh but it’s true!! And all the while it haunts me, the fact that I feel like sh*t without this guy, and once again, it’s gonna be a long haul back. Well there it is. Thanks Natalie, and everyone else!
My BF of 5 months (long distance) told me the other day that he is having a female friend over at his apartment to stay for the weekend. He is taking her sailing. I told him that is not ok with me and he says I am selfish and he doesn’t think there is anything wrong in doing this because:
1. She is just a friend from long ago and they happened to get in contact again and planned to spend the weekend together to “catch up”. He said being with me should not prevent him from cutting off his friends (male or female) from his life. He says he needs a social life also apart from me. They are not in a relationship he says and after all he is still with me. Although he does not want to tell his female friend that he has a girlfriend (me).
2. He told me he is not planning to have sex with her but cannot really promise that nothing will happen. He says me being uncomfortable about it shows that I do not trust him and I fear about things that has not yet happened.
3. He said it is selfish of me to prevent him from seeing female friends since he is lonely and needs company because we are in a long-distance relationship and I am not always there with him. I have gone to visit him 3 times in the 5 months we were together, staying for 1-2 weeks each visit. He lives in another continent. He wants me to move in with him but I cannot relocate right away because of work obligations plus I have a son.
4. He said if I love him, I should let him be free and trust that we will still end up together.
I don’t know how to handle this without creating too much drama and conflict. I don’t like to fight with him because it does not help. I am very confused and in so much pain right now. I cannot imagine that he will have another woman at his house this weekend. I don’t know what to do or what to tell him.
Tea Party,
Your instinct is correct to not be “ok” with this arrangement if you are TRULY in a mutual, committed relationship. There is a reason he is telling you about this “friend” of his. There is a reason, and it’s not one that is adding value to your relationship. There is a REASON he doesn’t want her to know about you. He is going to do whatever he wants, regardless of
your feelings. Because he CAN. You can’t move “right away” but what does that actually mean? Had he not told you of his “sailing with a female friend that I can’t promise not to have sex with” weekend, how would you have known it ever happened. There is a REASON he told you, and that’s why you’re writing about it here.
Tea Party, have you ever heard the saying “Don’t piss on me and then try to tell me it’s raining.”
First, I ask you to look in the mirror and ask yourself “Is this the kind of relationship I want with him?” “Does this make me feel secure and loved?” If he is not giving you the love, care, trust, and respect you want, then it is time to demote his importance in your life.
Second, about trust. Trust is not something you GIVE to another. Trust is something that is EARNED by a person. It is earned by the act of small courtesies and consideratons and kindness that are consistent over a long period of time. Your guy is not being considerate of you. He is not earning your trust and is actually making you feel insecure. And if you think you need to earn his trust by believing everything he says, and ignoring what your gut is saying, then you are just twisting yourself around to keep the relationship.
Third, do not uproot your residence and job for this man. You are trying to plant an obligation in him to be the man you want him to be, and I forsee future arguments where he wants to be with other women, but you feel he owes you his fidelity because after all, you uprooted your life for him. Don’t do it, Tea Party. He will say that was YOUR decision, and he will do whatever he wants to do.
And finally, what I’d like to see happen is, you accept the disappointment that he is not “The One”, you calmly say to him that “Oh, dear. Having other female company and possibly sharing physical closeness with other females is how you want things to be for you, then that is allowable for me too. I can see other men and have physical closeness with them, too. OK. I see. I see you want a different kind of relationship than I want. I don’t want that kind of relationship, so I am calling it quits. No hard feelings, we just want different things.”
And then say goodbye. You will not die. You will not be alone forever. You will just be closer to getting the relationship you want. A trusting, monogamous, caring relationship.
Damn, Elgie, damn!
*bows*
There’s everything in that advice. I wish I had a friend tell me this years ago. That note about trust not being given but earned is right there along with Love is an action. We forget we know what is dignified, what is normal and what is not acceptable. But deep inside, our souls and minds know that. We twist ourselves, suspend our judgement and then it STILL does not work with these dudes. We still lose. And we betray our own light.
Elgie, this was one of the most brilliant advice comments I’ve read on here.
Tea part, as a person who has suspended my judgement, who went and “trusted” and then again, I can tell you from experience it’s never just one thing like this that they put you through. It just snowballs from here. You’re never loving or understanding enough of them. It’s you who has a problem in their eyes. It’s who’s ruining it all by getting upset.
I’ve been reading a lot lately and I don’t remember where it was said but one of the classic answers this kind of person will you give you then is “I am sorry you are upset” or “I am sorry you’re angry about this/me spending a weekend with another female”. It’s not “I am sorry I’ve hurt you”. Nope. No winning with such people. Speak of selfish.
I join Why in the bow to Elgie: Elgie R., what an excellent comment!!
@tea party: if I can add something to Why’s and Elgie R.’s comments, I would say that, in my experience, long term relationships do not work. And 5 months is not too long a time, you can still extricate yourself with all of your pieces intact.
@Why: the “I am sorry you are upset” bits, lately it was me and Diane, but that’s general protokoll for them really 🙂 V.
Satirical post you might enjoy on the fake “sorry”.
http://jezebel.com/sorry-not-sorry-how-to-non-apologize-5993101
Hello Elgie R,
I love reading your responses. You give solid advice. Straight on chaser. I could have really used a friend like you the night my WORLD got turned upside down. I would have stretched out on your living room (the one you have organized so nicely-lol) coach and poured my heart out. Your words to others have been supportive to me as I start my life over after my engagement was broken. Your words offer encouragement. This site is really helping me SO MUCH.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!
That “organized living room” comment made me laugh, MJ…I guess I do talk a lot on here! I want to say thank you to you and all the posters who are saying they find something useful in my comments. I am here for the same reason – I gain personal insights from so many of your comments.
MJ, you are really on the road to healing…I agree with V. , or was it Veracity, who said we can see the remarkable improvements in your sense of self.
I also can relate to those who feel they are stuck…I’ve been there too. My wish is that you “stuck” ones pull yourselves out before you damage yourself by throwing yourself under a bus for a situation that is not worth the pain.
Natalie’s posts have done so much to help me fight to come into “my own , to help me realize it is OK to come into “my own”. They help me see that there is a ME in the equation. I can’t explain it. Sometimes Natalie’s posts hit me so square between the eyes that I have to get up from my laptop and stop reading. And some of the comments contain so much painful truth……. it certainly helps to know you are not alone in the confusion of the heart. And then, some of the comments are so funny…. I have added vocabulary since finding BR – such as “relationshit”. Perfect word.
What you guys said about the “I’m sorry you feel” dot-dot-dot……yes, I agree. That is a big signal that the person talking to you feels absolutely NO EMPATHY for you at all. I heard that line from the single EUM and the ACMM who used to be in my life. It was particularly eye-opening when I heard that line recently from my narcissistic mum. Now that I am more aware of the family dynamics at play in my life, when I heard that tag line, I felt strength inside of me…because I recognized the invalidation game and I made the choice not to play it.
Yeah…this is a great forum.
Tea Party,
You expressed a boundary. That’s good, but now you have to enforce it. Your boundary your responsibility….
Sure it would be nice if every time we expressed a boudary, people respected it. But that doesn’t always happen.
Don’t wait for him to enforce your boundaries.
I go through the 15 items or less Self-checkout line with a full cart of groceries all the time because the grocery store workers allow it. I know I can get away with it.
Read up on how to set and enforce boundaries. No, you don’t have to fight with him.
Tea party, I’ve read somewhere that if you start playing detective in a relationship it is a very very very bad sign. Double red flag. It is a sign that something is going on, there’s a breach of trust.
I don’t think it’s fair of him to say “heeeey, just chill! what’s meant to be is meant to be” or some other variation of that. You’re right to feel confused and hurt. What he is doing is hurtful and suspicious and he’s trying to normalize his hurting your feelings at your expense.
Excuse me, what the hell is this? “but cannot really promise that nothing will happen”. And THEN he gets to blame you for trusting him? What the what! Tea time, this guy has shown you what his intentions are and who he is. He’s busting your boundaries. Is this kind of behavior acceptable to you? It is your choice. Your boundaries.
Good morning Say Something,
I am putting the focus squarely on ME. Are you going to focus on YOU today? “Loving Myself Means Letting GO” I wanted to make some suggestions. Put a journal in your purse that you can easily pull out and write when you are hurt. Write about positive ways to turn this around. Plan out a way to create a new healthy social life for YOU. Pull out a calendar and plan just a couple of things and then just keep doing it. SOCIALIZE. You will meet new people and take your mind off of this. Start your morning workouts again. This is for YOU.
All those cold things that he did should be enough to help erase his space in your life. Each time that you dare think of something good you did with him remember that cold stare. Then think about him telling you to move on. It is time to focus on YOU. You can do it one step at a time.
I am going to be happy and satisfied with my life. Are you? Hugs.
Hi MJ,
I want to let go. Maybe thinking about it is why I feel so unsettled this morning. That, and coffee.
My “journal” is on my phone so doing that! It includes unsent letters, thoughts, my manifestivus, all the ways I’ve tried to capture my pain. I think you’re right… If I can remember his cold stare, cruel finishing words, and dismissive silence, I would be better able to leave the BGE behind and start to live again.
I will let you know which two items from tiny buddha that I decide to try. My phone still thousands of his texts, photos, one voicemail from him that I’ve never again listened to, and all his emails. Pathetically, this is the reason I won’t upgrade my phone. The data won’t transfer because I hadn’t updated the operating system, and I know once I upgrade, it’ll all be gone. So I’ve hung on to the old phone like I hang on to the pain. Not smart, I know. I know. I know. But yet, I persist.
Thank you for being thoughtful supportive!
Hi Say Something,
Like you I had the photos and text messages. Initially, I analyzed (content analysis-lol)the texts to see if I had missed any red flags. I tried to see where there was a disconnect. I did not see anything that stood out.
I deleted every photo and text from him. I deleted him from my phone. I loaded up all pictures of him (scattered around my house) and everything he gave me and throw it all in the trash. I throw out all the sweet letters written even the Valentines /Birthday/Just because I love you cards. I throw EVERYTHING OUT including hand bags, perfume etc. When I found out he cheated my brother told me to throw out every single thing he gave me. He said you need to forget him and move on. I kept one photo and it is hidden in the back of a photo album. I didn’t keep it because he is coming back. This man had a significant role in my life. It is no different than holding onto high school photos and college photos. Other than that I deleted him from my life.
Upgrade your phone and let all of those photos and texts go. I understand you are doing this to hold on. Be kind to yourself. Cut the cord and let all that stuff go. I am so glad I can no longer dig into all that stuff. It would probably drive me nuts.
Upgrade your phone and LET GO. If you get a chance listen to Stop Worrying and Start Living on You Tube. It is by Dale Carneige. That series is so uplifting. It may bring you some PEACE. I even listen to this sometimes when I work out. You can listen to it while you work or whenever you like. Let me know what you think. Hugs,
MJ
Mary Jane,
I admire your strength. I have analyzed to the point where I could now be wondering if his font choice meant something. Ok, just kidding. I think.
Several years ago (2008), when my divorce began, I threw away everything my ex had given me for Christmas. I also threw away things that a “friend” had given me over the years because she was supporting him and ignoring me. Nice things that I liked. GONE! I had anger! Frustration! Sadness! Anger! I remember. I lost someone I thought was my good friend along with the marriage. I’d supported her emotionally. I let her daughter stay with me for a week at a time so she could vacation with her guy. I took her family Christmas photos. She helped my ex organize a surprise bday party for me. We often shared small (and big) talk over glasses of wine. What kind of friend would ignore me when I’m served divorce papers? I realized SHE KNEW. She knew before I knew and was his confidant. My divorce dragged on for 18 months and he wouldn’t move out. But he would disappear for days and days because he was screwing someone else. Had I done the same, I suppose we’d have been arrested for abandoning our kids. So I survived this horrid thing, living in the same house with a cheater, pretty much raising our kids 90% while he did 10% randomly, finding a better job, blah blah. I did it. I cried a few times but was not broken. I fought for myself. It was hard, gut-wrenching work. Losing “the friend” hurt significantly but I knew I couldn’t trust her. I wasn’t stuck. I didn’t really miss him when he finally left. There was relief. I missed “my friend” more, but again, I had boundaries to protect myself.
And I rebuilt my life.
This time is different. I don’t have the outward anger. It’s internal. I still have some misdirected attachment to a guy who seemed completely different. And I have nothing really to throw away. He gave me ONE card. And let me keep a pair of his socks. He never gave me any “things”. EVER. I didn’t need things, right? Not everyone likes to give gifts, right? I valued our time together over anything he could have bought me. And in the end he made me feel like I was selfish. “I gave you all my free time.” I will never forget those words.
He put more money away each year in savings than I even made. He earned a six figure income, but he never bought me anything, except the food I ate with him. And I never asked for anything. Oh wait, I think he once paid for wiper fluid for my car. ONCE I asked him to take a pic of is together. He never took pics of me. I have pics of him, though.
He was going to get me a mountain bike. And a motorcycle helmet. And take me on vacation. He was GOING TO. He was going to. He.was.going.to.
So I don’t even have “things”, just electronically stored images and communications. And broken promises. A broken heart. Broken trust. Broken resolve. Broken coping skills. Broken spirit. An almost broken phone-ha! A broken sense of sentimentality. I recognize all of this about myself. Broken record…
Thank you for sharing. It helps. And good job on the disappearing weekend guy.
Hello Say Something,
I wish that I had a friend like you around my area. I so connect and can really relate to EVERYTHING you are saying. I get you. Your story makes me feel normal. I have done and felt a lot of the exact same things that you have felt. I really get you.
If you were here I think I would help occupy your time so that you would eventually forget his crazy butt. If I had a workshop where I could build a man. I would make you and I two new men that we had these wonderful connections with. Except they would be men not boys. Men who are ready for commitment. Men who don’t need to play games and lie because they are out getting something on the SIDE.
You need a vacation. After a painful divorce you put a lot of stock into this new guy. You finally believed you had met your soul mate. You had hopes about a future with him. I think this is why you feel so hurt. You are going to have to accept and let go. You my dear have reached a point of saturation. Don’t analyze this anymore. Take it one day at a time and do positive things for YOU. Know that I am out here is this big world trying to do the same thing.
I am at a point in my life where I want friendships that are REAL. I spent so much time with JUDAS. I don’t have friendships. I have walked this road alone in terms of healing. My siblings didn’t want to hear about it anymore after TWO WEEKS. They would all say you aren’t over him yet. So, I stopped talking to them about him. The communication with them dwindled. I have provided all of them with moral and financial support. They cut me off after two weeks. I think they all begin to whisper she is still talking about him. They all said he has proven he is a LOSER. You should be thanking GOD you want be going through a divorce. They told me I jumped ship before he got his hands on my assets. They never stopped to thank he had already broken my heart-my greatest asset- that keeps blood pumping through my body.(I just cant go here-takes me back).
I had to try to get tough. There was no one to talk to. When I read your posts-it seemed like we were both going down the same road.
You have survived some difficult things. Losing that friend sounds tough. I wish I had friends. I have the type of personality that I can strike up a conversation with anyone. Here is the tough part. You call people and try to connect for a walk, dinner, or a movie and they just seem busy. So, I get caught up in work. Then those long weekends come. Boy all this time that was once occupied with so many things to do together. It is crazy. I would have gone to see Still Alice with you. LOL.
I think you said you made him an Easter basket. I did that for years for my x just like he was a child. These baskets were BEAUTIFUL. I dyed eggs and put candy and lots of special things (watches, cologne and ties)in his basket. I even learned how to make exquisite bows to put on them. And they were HUGE baskets. I traveled to a craft store way out just to get these special HUGE baskets. Other people were just in awe about how my Easter baskets looked. So, I know you are a sweetheart doing something like this. Don’t waste that on someone who is long gone. Invest energy into YOU.
You need a project you can be passionate about-something to take your mind off of this. I have cried a lot about what happened. This site is helping me make a shift. You have become a virtual source of strength. After my family shut me down. I have been alone working through this. There is no therapist. This is the PATH that I decided to take. It is much tougher alone. I now so regret putting all of my time into him. I could have made some friends along the way.
Hey new friend (smile) let go of all of those messages and pictures. I did it and you can too. It is painful and will keep you stuck.
One last note. My heart sank yesterday. I was sitting in the park. I saw a really good looking man same build as my x and dressed like a runway model. He LOOKED SO GOOD. He looked almost similar to my x. So, there are some out there. I want make the mistake of just getting someone good looking next time-I will really look for someone with character. I pray to God that I am never faked out again. I cant take another round of this.
Hugs.
Hi Tea Party. It sounds like he’s putting his selfishness on you.
Good for you letting him know that it is not okay with you.
“He said if I love him, I should let him be free and trust that we will still end up together.” Ha! Good one. Guilting you for taking good care of yourself and rightfully not trusting him. Read: let me make you feel bad and then dangle this carrot of hope in front of you so I can have my cake and eat it too. (string you along)
“I don’t know how to handle this without creating too much drama and conflict. I don’t like to fight with him because it does not help. I am very confused and in so much pain right now. I cannot imagine that he will have another woman at his house this weekend. I don’t know what to do or what to tell him.”
Sticking up for yourself is not creating drama. I’m sorry, but you do have a conflict on your hands. Fighting likely does not help because you give in, against your better judgement. Would if you chose to face it head on? He’s making all the terms and you are going along with them why? To avoid him rejecting you? He’s already rejecting you, by treating you this way. You don’t deserve to be treated this way.
If it were me, I’d tell him to take a hike and then go completely no contact. He is using you and you are allowing it.
This is meant in the spirit of tough love, not meanness.
I forgot to add that you are very focused on him – what he wants, what he says, what he thinks. Why is it all about him? He does not have authority over you unless you give it to him. Take your power back.
Would if you = what if you. My spelling and grammar abilities seem to dissolve here!
Yes, it’s the tension. It’s the feelings.I can feel them now but they have promised to drive me insane. They feel absolutely unbearable. But are they unbearable? Perhaps, they are bearable. I want to be able to sit with them. I do. I feel like I have an extremely low tolerance for negative emotions.
So, today, I’ve decided I’m going to just take it one step at a time, but I’m not going to run away, at least I’m going to try. I’m going to try to go deep within my body, and feel, and wait for them to pass. If they don’t pass in five minutes, I’m going to try and coexist with them while I do what I need to do, ughhhhhhh.
If I can learn to deal with my negative emotions. I think I can really improve my life.
I’m starting to understand the purpose of my feelings journal. I can really use it to get to know me better I want that.
Say Something & Mary Jane – I’ve been following your stories & I wanted to say that I really feel for you. You’re obviously going through a hard time right now. However, Say Something (I hope this doesn’t come off as flippant, because it’s obvious you’re really hurt) I know this has been said ad nauseam on here & you’re probably sick of hearing it by now: BGE is not the BGE. I recall reading in one of your posts (can’t remember if it was on here, or another thread) that you went over to BGE’s house & he “showed you your competition” by making you view dating profiles of other women he was considering, ostensibly for a serious relationship? I have to admit, I was appalled when I read that. That’s not cute. That’s not endearing. That is appalling behavior. First of all, it sounds like BGE was bigging himself up by making himself out to some prize that you were supposedly “competing” for. It also sounds like he was trying to get you to focus on these other ladies to take your focus off of where it should have been: on him and his behavior.
Also, Mary Jane: I think you mentioned that one of the things you missed was shopping for shoes and pretty dresses with your fiancee. Just curious, but what’s stopping you from spending your time and money doing either one of those things, now? I’m single & I love window shopping for clothes. If you planned a trip with a significant other, why not go by yourself or with a good girlfriend? Nothing wrong with traveling alone as long as you take appropriate safety precautions.
My best to you both – Freedom
Hi Freedom,
Thanks for your note. You are right I could probably go shoe shopping alone. Initially, I would not have even considered it. The pain was almost unbearable due to the deception. I have come A LONG WAY to be able to say to you that I could go alone. I have sat at home online alone and have purchased some shoes. Truth be known I don’t need another pair of shoes. LOL.
When the two of us went it was so special. He would help me pick out some of the BEST shoes ever. He just has an eye for the best of everything. So, do I (smile). I would have the final say. He would walk over to me with boxes of shoes stacked high. He would have me try them on and he would just give me those special looks. He would buckle or tie the shoes for me. If it was a heal with strappy buckles he would place my foot on his leg and buckle it. He would give me a swat on my butt as I walked by him parading around in shoes. It was so much fun with him. To some people this may sound crazy. I was madly in love with this man. He took major interest in me and was involved with everything I did.
We had a favorite shoe store that I just can’t go into anymore. I don’t want to run into him. When I am ready I will go there really early when I know he hasn’t started his day. This store is something he introduced me to. We would have lunch and then shoe shop. Then we would go look at dresses. He was my best friend and lover. By the way I was paying the bill. So, I could still do this. One day I will walk shoe aisles again screaming and laughing about some shoe I got first.
My biggest regret is all the time I devoted to HIM. We both did everything together. Late night movies during the week. Long drives to romantic places. So, when he was gone so was my friend that I did things with. Oh no these memories are not good to rehash.
You are so right about the travel. I have two trips booked and I am thinking about a third one. Our plan was to travel the world together when we got married. I pushed this idea and had mapped out the plan. He was onboard with it. Just sad we cant do it together. But before I met him I would travel all over the place and I have been to some exotic places. I have traveled great distances alone and been careful. I traveled many places with plans in place about what to do. So, I can do it. I just thought that it was going to be with my future husband.
It just want be the same. I am fighting everyday to really continue to accept my reality. You know what is really sad. I respected this man. He didn’t respect me enough to break off the relationship when he decided to sleep with someone. He didn’t think I don’t want to lose a real friendship with this woman. I couldn’t have been friends right away but if he had been respectful I could have. Eventually. Why? Because this is someone I had great conversations with about everything. The time had been invested in we knew each other. He got to the point that he would write down on paper things I would do or say before I said them. He would show me the paper after I said it. We would just laugh like children about things like this. I will never understand what happened and I want waste more time fretting over him. He is gone.
Freedom I am finding out about some other things that interest me. I am going to sink my time into these things. One day I may be this happy again. For now I am going to do what Dale Carnegie suggest live in day tight compartments. I cant think beyond today-or else I will stress myself out.
Thanks for your note it may just be the thing that pushes me out to shop for shoes alone.
Hi Freedom/ MJ,
I know I continue to write BGE, and I hope to fully believe that he isn’t. And when I am convinced, I’ll update with a name that reflects my beliefs. So strange that I can talk and write about all the disappointment surrounding him, but I’m not yet able to erase the BGE belief. Nothing seemed “normal” about the way he ended things, and boy did I research that… Abrupt Breakups, sabotage, jekyll-hyde, nice guy breakup, passive-aggressive breakup, Casanova, narcissists, sociopaths, woman scorned… so I have concluded that one of us must be seriously messed up. My own sister told me I was being unfair to him by not just walking away and letting him continue his life journey.
I get it. Anyone can do whatever (s)he wants. I cannot control the actions of another person. Check. BUT when a person’s purposeful (even if he says it was unintentional) and harmful actions contain deceit, betrayal, lack of empathy, and manipulation, apparently I am not very good at understanding and accepting. And so my quest continues:
1.Did I really misinterpret the entire relationship? Is he really the BGE, was just not that into me, or all of a sudden changed his mind (like in a few hours) and I don’t want to accept it? Can
2. Is he just EU oops and didn’t intend to cause me any harm? Did he THINK he liked me but uh, just had to end everything for “secret reasons” I will never know.
3. Was I targeted and used because I made it easy for him to get what he wanted (companionship, sex, I don’t even know) until he was “done” with me?
Let me clarify. I KNOW he’s moved on. I know I need to recover. I KNOW I’d sound like the crazy one if talked to most people about what I’m feeling. I am now my own worst enemy.
Say Something, You are moving forward! Congrats! Keep going!
Thank you Veracity,
Sometimes it doesn’t feel like I’m making any progress. I really hope I am, but not sure how to measure it. I did notice one thing. The other day I had an offsite project meeting and needed to provide some detailed guidance to a partner. Although the meeting was several hours, I know that at one point when I was really focused, I was not thinking of BGE during those 10 minutes. This may sound trivial, but usually (like now) I can be engaged in an activity and still have lingering BGE thoughts haunting me at the same time. Most suggestions that work for others are not working for me, and it makes me feel abnormal. I know I can be over analytical (and ironically I’ve been praised for my strong analytical skills) and I take things extremely personally.
Hello Say Something,
I read this BR article (see link below) and it hits on all the things I thought once I caught him cheating. This is all I wanted from him…………………………..
It would be great if they could respect you and the time you shared by dignifying you with an explanation and decent treatment (too much to ask for from a liar)
Natalie says: They want out so badly, they have to sabotage your relationship in such an abominable way that it would make it difficult for them to go back (unless very brazen) or for you to think there was a chance. They safeguard themselves and avoid the commitments that they’ve made by sabotaging their way out and if they’re ‘lucky’, they’ll get a 2 for 1 deal and you’ll think it’s your fault.
This is exactly what happened. The deed –betrayal was so dirty that we will never be friends after all the time invested in sharing our lives together. I hope I never see him again. If we ran into each other we would not even be able to speak because Judas really deceived ME.
This is a positive thought that Natalie shares in that article:
Don’t envy the next person because who knows what kind of switcheroo stuff they’ll be pulling there – they may have left a big hole in your life, but you can fill it with a better person and new hopes, dreams, and plans.
My focus really has to be on ME moving forward. Rehashing is so painful and is really a set-back. I need to focus on my healing and starting my life over.
(BR LINK-https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/happy-one-day-chopped-the-next-when-they-breakup-and-vanish/)
Hi MJ,
I connect with your feelings as well. I like your build-a-man workshop idea. Ha! And I can also talk to almost anyone. Let’s see, yesterday while pumping gas, the guy next to me tried to strike up a conversation. Pretty sure he was married, and missing half his teeth, but hey. Actually, it was just friendly banter. I don’t think a married toothless guy was hitting on me at the gas station. And I do have some friends, but they’re all married and living different lives. And the ones who have heard my story, yep, they’ve heard enough. Everyone’s heard enough.
Yep, I did a custom Easter basket and a few other things along the way. Just before TLW I’d ordered stuff for my awesome personalized Christmas idea. Christmas was tough. I didn’t even open the cards I received.
Ugh. Your pseudo-sighting in the park… I totally get that too. It’s that trigger that affects your entire mind and body. I’ve had the same experience. Pattern recognition.
My friend and I talked on the phone last night about what could I do that would disengage my mind… What am I passionate about? I don’t even know right now. And you suggested vacation. But when I take a vacation someday I don’t want to go alone. I’ve been doing everything else alone for years. So I have to think of something.
My also sent me an article on “Complicated Grief” which I had not heard of. Though usually it’s based on response to bereavement recovery, in this article it was applied to breakups.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-mysteries-love/201504/breakup-how-tell-if-you-suffer-complicated-grief
“If you have complicated grief, you have been grieving for six months or more. You furthermore satisfy at least five of the following criteria:
You have obsessive thoughts about aspects of the lost relationship or the person you were with
You spend a significant amount of time every day or almost every day, thinking about your lost relationship or the person you were with
You have intense emotional pain, sorrow, pangs or yearnings related to the lost relationship
You avoid reminders of the loss, because you know that reminders will cause you pain or make you feel uncomfortable
You have problems accepting the loss of the relationship
You have frequent dreams that relate to your lost relationship
You frequently suffer from deep sadness, depression or anxiety because of the loss
You are angry or feel a deep sense of injustice in relation to the lost relationship
You have difficulties trusting others since the relationship ended
The loss of the relationship makes it difficult for you to find pleasure in social and routine activities
Your symptoms make it difficult for you to function optimally on your job, as a parent or in a new relationship”
Basically, instead of completing the grieving process, dealing with the pain becomes an addiction.
“So how can grief lead to addiction? Grief occurs only when there was some pleasure involved in spending time with the person. This means that being around the person at least sometimes triggered a dopamine response. The sudden loss of all exposure to the person or the loss of the relationship as it was cuts off this dopamine response. Any reminder or thoughts of the person or the relationship can, however, still trigger a dopamine response. But this response is no longer a pleasurable response because the thoughts or reminders of the loss trigger activity in the amygdala, a brain region that processes negative feelings.”
I’m afraid this may be what’s happened to me. I’ve said that it’s become who I am now to just cry and be stuck. I need to read more about uncomplicating my grief. All I know is that I don’t feel right. I’ve thought …. Depression? PTSD? Am I just crazy? I’ve always been able to overcome, to figure it out, to keep going. If we met and I didn’t share my BGE story, you would think that I’m completely normal, outgoing, fun… I don’t talk about except on here and to one friend. It’s not “acceptable” and it’s really eating away at me.
The other night I had the dream that a dr told me that I needed to have both arms amputated. I cried and pleaded and insisted that there was no reason I wasn’t ready. I didn’t want to. What kind of dream is that! And I remembered saying, in real life, soon after the breakup, that I would have done just about anything to feel better. To the point that if cutting off my own arm would work, I would have done that. If I had the guarantee that doing something extreme would end my pain, I would have. But there are no guarantees. For the first time I imagined what it must be like to be addicted and really deeply crave a drug. Two friends shared prescriptions with me. “This will help you sleep.” “This will make you feel better.” Luckily I don’t have crack smoking, heroin shooting friends. But I get it and my heart goes out to anyone who is caught in that cycle of addiction. OTC sleep meds didn’t work. The low dose serotonin prescription I eventually received because I’d started sharing my friend’s made me feel “shaky” so I discontinued. I didn’t want meds anyway. I barely take Tylenol. I cut back on alcohol on purpose. Increased exercise. Anyhow, I need to forge a new path. With both arms intact. I wish I had your great, positive attitude! I so want my like back.
And I have read that post of Natalie’s you quoted. I’ll check it out again later today. I feel that “Friday morning weekend anxiety” floating around. Still. I know the weekends are tough on you too.
Peace and positive thoughts
Hello Say Something,
Every thought you have had I am telling you I have had the same thoughts. I appreciate your support it is helping me. Really this is the first ray of light and shift for me. It is validating for me that you have had the same thoughts. I dealt with someone who is a liar and a cheat and I am trying to sort through the damage he did to me. If he had the decency to be honest about sleeping with someone else this would have turned out differently. It is just disrespectful.
I just don’t like Fridays. It is the beginning of a long weekend. Too much time on my hands.
Thanks for the laugh about the guy missing his teeth. I get those too along with so many married men. I would rather be alone till JESUS comes back then spend time with a married man. I kid you not. I was sitting in the park and a married man started talking to me about what a problems his wife is and how she looks tore up. I quickly sent him on his way home to his BRIDE. Yuck. I am sitting peacefully in the park and he was revealing secrets about his wife to a complete stranger. Nasty. when he approached me another day I kindly ask him not to speak with me again. Go home and fix your problems with your wife you don’t stand a chance in HELL with me if you are married.
How do I get through the weekend? I am not sure why but this Friday has hit me harder then most. My mood just slumped I guess it is loneliness. I just went online an ordered the book you suggested Four Agreements. I am going to read other things this weekend. I have already had my hair done twice this week and had two manicures. I also did a mini spa day. I do these things in the evening to pass time I guess.
I am going to see if I can find an interpretation of your dream. Like you I have these dreams associated with this break up and I look up information about them. I am analytical just like you (this may not be good-lol). I made up my mind that I would not allow JUDAS to put me on medication. I don’t knock medication or therapy for anyone else. You have to do what works for YOU. I just made up my mind that a LIAR and a CHEAT who disrespected me would not drive me to medication.
I think so much like you do about this whole process. I have looked at this as an addiction. I have never in my life used drugs. I liken my heart break to an addiction. I wanted to read about how people break addictions because I am sick of thinking about the end of this fake relationship I had. This LIAR tricked me big time. I thought he loved me. I had such a difficult time with the rumination. Dealing with the abrupt loss of a long term relationship sent me into constant rumination. I have had times where I have done the same thing you did -actually be amazed that ten minutes went by and I was not thinking about the loss of this relationship.
I appreciate what you said about my positive attitude. I still have my days. I think this has to deal with loneliness. Today, is not good facing the weekend. I am trying to keep the focus on me and what I need to do to get back on track.
Let me ask you this. If I could arrange an appointment where he met you at a coffee shop on Saturday morning to answer all of your questions that you have about the relationship would it give you any comfort? What are 3 of the most important questions you would want him to answer? (Was this relationship fake? Were you seeing someone else while seeing me?) Would this give you any comfort and help you get unstuck?
I am going to get my hair done. I need to BUSY myself so I don’t drift too far down a dark hole with all of this weekend ahead of me. I am sure it is just the loneliness. I am going to read the article you sent. We just have to keep working on ourselves. One day this will just be a memory.
Hugs
Hi MJ,
Quickly because I’m going out with a friend for bday drinks (her bday)…
I would not meet up with him unless it was to possibly reconcile the relationship… Which isn’t going to happen. Seeing him would kill me. I have questions that I asked to his face, on the phone, in texts, in a handwritten impulsively scrawled letter, and by emails. I got stonewalled, blank stares, lies, denials, different answers, accused of being critical, chastising, and harshly offensive. Those were his words at me, BUT THOSE ARE THE WAYS HE TREATED ME. And so I apologized, took the blame, said I knew he didn’t mean to hurt me on purpose, told him I didn’t mean to be hurtful. How unselfish could I be?
Ok I’ll catch up later. I just did my own hair 🙂
MJ,
I just spent an hour writing to you and somehow deleted before posting.
I was thinking no, you could NOT HAVE remained his friend “If he had the decency to be honest about sleeping with someone else” because it would be too painful. That’s fantasy thinking. My fantasy thinking is painful too. I can NEVER see him unless I had absolutely no feelings. So I could NEVER SEE HIM AGAIN. He picked someone else. Rejected, replaced, reset.
I also wrote about being asked (AGAIN) that dreaded question: “Are you seeing anyone?” So invasive. Should I respond “How’s your marriage?” because I feel like it’s along those same lines. Instead I responded, “Does it LOOK like I’m seeing someone? No.” which probably came off as defensive and bitchy. The woman who asked is a friend of a friend. 1. Her husband chose her after initially pulling the EU thing. They’ve been married for years. She knows my BGE story and actually met him when we went out in a small group last year. 2. She is best friends with the guy I briefly dated in the fall. It wasn’t a good fit for me. I know she was “fact finding” when she asked me that question.
The place we all went out together is also a place I avoided. When I finally re-entered the restaurant, I burst into tears. My sister “forgot” that was the place I’d been avoiding. Forgot, even tho I told my story 1000 times. So I get it about the shoe shopping.
Oh, Saturday. Wishing you happiness MJ!
Clarification.. Not the place I was last night. No crying last night.
The place BGE and I went is somewhere I revisited in Dec with my sister. One time this person and her husband were in the same group of 6 that BGE and I were in.
Hello Say Something,
Today, was tough. Got up did an intense workout. Yes my hair looked a mess. Went back to the salon and spa again. My therapy is the massage therapist. I have been keeping myself busy today, but it is just dealing with the LONELINESS.
I never want to see JUDAS again. But we live near each other. The reality is we may run into each other. I pray that I don’t see him in the near future. There are many events coming up that we use to go to. I want go, but will drive much further away to other areas to enjoy those activities. Not putting myself in the line of fire. I don’t want to run into him.
I had to run an errand today in a place the two of us use to go and it hit me hard. Just too many memories. I had my plan in place for getting in and out quickly. LOL.
It has to be tough to have people asking you if you are seeing someone. No one around me now other than family knows my story. I am not telling this story to anyone new that I meet. It is over and I am rebuilding. It will actually help me heal faster not telling the story over and over again.
My family has never ask me how I am doing. No one has ever mentioned his name again. In fact they never ask me if I have a new beau. They are just too busy with their own lives. They gave me a two week mourning period and then they started to complain that I HAD TO MOVE ON!
I have had more discussion with you about my pain and how this has impacted my life then I have with FAMILY. They have forced me to move on. They have said I should be glad and thanking God this relationship ended when it did.
On a positive note. Today, I was able to sit quietly and devise my project list and then I honed it down to two immediate projects that will be great to work on. I need to throw myself into projects.
With all this time on my hand I can devote so much time to working on projects. That is what I will focus my efforts on. I had three large canvases delivered to me along with paints and other art supplies. I don’t know how to paint but thought it would be fun to just create the best art I can make. Something positive to occupy my mind with.
Hope you had a good weekend.
Hugs, MJ
Good Morning MJ,
I began reading ‘As a Man Thinketh’ and wow, that’s some powerful and heavy stuff. What I am reading is reinforcing my knowledge that I need to change my way of thinking. My thinking is causing my suffering. I wish it used the term “woman” but okay 🙂
“Let a man radically alter his thoughts, and he will be astonished at the rapid transformation it will effect in the material conditions of his life.”
I have to agree that transformation of how I think is key to getting unstuck. It is reminding me of the “Get Out of Stuck” exercise of Natalie’s, so I should probably revisit that as well.
This weekend is rough for me as well. Got some exercise in yesterday AM, and headed out soon this morning for today’s round.
I’ve had much travel each weekend over the past month, and not entire days at home. In a sense, it distracts me. In another sense, the distraction allows my sadness to return. I notice significant moments of sadness when I’m driving, especially alone. Seeing a vehicle like his, which of course stands out, is a constant trigger. Seeing and hearing motorcycles is a trigger. I am not sure how to counter this from affecting me. I know it is causing significant distress. It is perpetuating my suffering and stopping me in my tracks. May sound silly, but it’s what I’ve noticed. And so I find myself crying while I’m driving. Just writing about it now is making me cry.
Congrats on getting a project list together. I’m missing that ability to focus right now, in part because there were so many things (house projects) BGE said he’d help with, and most are things beyond my skill and tool level. So yes, I’m still connecting my projects to him, and feeling the burn of the future faking promise breaking.
When I think of what I want in a partner, someone that wants to be part of a “project team” is huge for me. I have so many things I want to do, and I’ve learned and can do SOME myself, but much is significantly beyond my scope. He presented himself as “that guy” and after getting started helping me, he bailed. Much like Judas was the “shoe shopping with MJ guy”.
Very cool about your art endeavors. I took a bunch of classes WAY back in college, have always enjoyed drawing, painting, photography, making videos. Just not exactly inspired right now, but that creative instinct is buried within me.
Thank you so much for sharing your pain, resources, and progress. Changing this part of my life is the hardest thing I’ve ever faced.
Hi Say Something,
I understand about the project list. I had so many things that I was going to do with Judas. I have to FOCUS to get some important things done. There are days that I lack the enthusiasm to do things I need to do. Guess what? On those days I just do other things that calm my nerves or I do nothing. I have to be kind to myself.
You should have seen me today running in and out of stores like I was in a war zone. I grabbed a NICE hand bag within five seconds flat and was at the counter and gone with my little prize (SMILE). NICE. Before I went inside I looked around the parking lot to see if there was any car like his. This was one of many places we use to go. I still can’t do shoes, but this was a start. The shoes are just too close to where he lives and he shops for shoes at the same place. One day but it will be really early and I will be out after 20 minutes max.
Went to the art store and got another set of supplies. I got smaller canvases and paints that I can put in a bag and carry to the park. I sat outside for a while today just painting. Note-I can not draw I just did whatever I could as a way to be creative.
James Allen says, “You are today where your thoughts have brought you: you will be tomorrow where your thoughts take you.” This quote is really powerful. So, on those days that I travel down dark holes I am actually allowing my thoughts to take me there. Training your thoughts is tough work. It is just as tough as getting ripped abs. Where are my thoughts going to take me next? Oh boy I make this choice and so do you. Where are you going to allow your thoughts to take you this week?
If you get a chance look up Sonia Choquette. She lost her bother, father and her marriage imploded (30 year marriage) over a six week period. I am trying to think of ways to inspire you. I work on myself everyday in some way. Never had a more dark period in my life since I have been on earth. Just listen to some of the short videos and look at the pilgrimage she decided to take to get herself out this dark place. WOW. It may take a 600 mile walk to shake you. The book is Walking Home. I ordered it. I will be reading for days.
Honestly, I think if an upstanding man shows up and gives you some much needed attention your focus will shift. So, would mine. Imagine someone you could feel really excited about. I go to movies, plays, dinner and other activities alone. I don’t like this. We need companionship. This weekend was horrible ( that time of the month coming hasn’t helped. I muddle through weekends.
I can’t take long drives anymore. He never let me drive a mile. He insisted on driving. I understand how time on the rode with too much time to think can take you to a dark place.
Damn I need a driver. I have places I want to go. I hope we have some real men show up to help with projects and to be honest partners. Like you said you have done things alone long enough.
This is a bold move. I am going on a vacation alone post Judas (by plane). Lots of relaxing activities planned including spa treatments. This is not ideal but this is my new word. If I don’t have fun I will have to rethink how I do vacations. My new life. WOW. I could have never guessed it would be like this.
Hugs,
MJ
Hi MJ,
So tonight I decided to go out to eat alone. So here I am sitting at the neighborhood bar and grill typing to you.
I love hearing about your spa, hair, shopping, and shoe stories. It is so the opposite of me. I’m sitting here with layered tanks, jeans, and flip flops. My hair looks pretty damn good though. I had a random woman come up to me a couple years ago and tell me I had the best hair of anyone at the conference we were at. On a sad note, it’s also the first thing about me that BGE commented on. Ugh. If shaving my head would bring happiness, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
I just don’t have the desire for a solo vacation, nor can I afford anything of the sort right now. Plus I still have significant disappointment surrounding the vacation that never happened. It’s not even about WHERE he said we were going, but about the fact that he wanted to spend time with me and then withdrew it all pretending it was some faded winter tale that I made up. It was all him.
I’m going to check out the ‘Walking Home Book’ and read James Allen again. I printed that out, as it’s too much to take in all at once on a screen.
So I sit here writing so as to not feel alone. I would so like someone to share with. Sitting where I once sat with BGE.
Ok. If you’re ever bored when you’re painting, paint a picture while thinking good thoughts for me. Hope your super charged work week goes well!
Say Something,
Here is a big hug from me. You took yourself out on a date. That is great. Keep doing this. I know this is not what either of us want to do. Remember life can change for the better in a minute. You cant meet someone new if you don’t go OUT. EXPOSURE.
I was dressed to kill today for my big presentation. Had on Summer colors that POP (heels and bag all coordinated). It is important to feel good about the way you look when you are going thru tough times. For me anyway. Sounds like you have your hair flowing. LOVE IT. Go glamour girl.
I wish you could do a mini local vacation. Something just to have some fun girlie. You need that. There is no place I can go pretty much locally that I have not been with JUDAS.
Today was great! I hardly had any time to think about JUDAS. I even blocked out other people that wanted to give me stress. I have a laser focus on things I need to do to elevate my life to the next level. I have a new BS filter-I block all nonsense. It can not enter my zone.
So, we have to keep reading positive things. Did you have a positive pep talk with yourself today? Try to do this daily. Counter every negative thought with a positive thought.
I am not happy about the circumstance the brought you here. But gurlie you have been supportive. Thank you for your virtual friendship. I know I say it a hundred times but thank you for openly sharing your thoughts. We are not alone. We have both gone thru the same thing.
Keep busy. Plan a couple of things to do. Things are going to get better. SMILE.
Hugs
MJ
Good morning Say Something,
I read more about complicated grief. They have some interesting ways that they help people who are stuck. They have imaginal conversations as a part of treatment. This allows they to have imaginary conversations with the person they lost. I can see how this would help because you can talk about things that are bothering you as if you were telling the person you lost.
They also have people keep positive and negative logs of their thoughts.
This is what I read:
Complicated grief is an intense and long-lasting form of grief that takes over a person’s life. It is natural to experience acute grief after someone close dies, but complicated grief is different. Complicated grief is a form of grief that takes hold of a person’s mind and won’t let go. People with complicated grief often say that they feel “stuck.”
What Judas pulled on me took over my life. Rumination constantly. Trying to understand how this happened.
I scheduled some time at the spa to help me relax. I have a BIG week ahead. Take a look at the site if you get a chance.
I read all of your attempts to ask him questions in the end. It just seems that while he ended things faster than you wanted him to he closed the door.
I got zero conversation.
Hugs MJ
Say Something,
I read the article on complicated grief. It is very interesting and I must admit I have some of those symptoms. I don’t think it is odd that you are reading these types of articles. I have read all sorts of articles related to loss. I even read about how people deal with death. Because that is how bad the pain was.
By reading I think you are actively trying to help yourself. Please continue to share any articles that you think are helpful. Keep reading it is a step in the healing process.
Hugs
Hi, Say Something,
Don’t be so harsh on yourself. I’m just wondering, since you mentioned that it’s been 11 months or so post-breakup and you still seem stuck in this bad place, you may be dealing with a clinical depression. Nothing wrong with that (happens to the best of us) but I might recommend seeing someone professionally if you have the time & resources to do so.
~ Freedom
Freedom, I agree. Say Something has been seeing a therapist since June though (if I am not mistaken). Maybe you need to find a new one, Say Something. You might be suffering from a depression if it lasts for months and you are stuck. Typically the grieving is the cycles. Not one line that doesn’t waiver. I read stories on another forum how a good therapist and temporary medication helps to get out of the stuck helps. When one is stuck in a long period of sadness, the brain does get affected by depression. And the sad and scary part, the longer you stay like that, the more perpetuated it becomes and you won’t even want to get out of it yourself. It will become You. I thought this was happening to me as I was being lethargic for 1-2 months just recently and it scared me, but I was able to pick myself up and feeling better now. Making some healthy changes in my life and asking for God’s help and guidance in every step while I keep trying myself and literally forcing myself and kicking myself when I hit the bottom. So, a good therapist and a short-term dose of medication, can help you get out of the dark place. Then, you will be able to start rebuilding your life. I have been reading your posts and too have had many times told myself that Say Something needs to switch a therapist and consider temporary antidepressant help. You deserve to live a full life. Happiness is not built on a relationship alone. Yes, it is good to have a partner. I miss that too once in a while, but I switch my focus to building my new life. Career change (got the book about color of the parachute and will make exercises/testing grids this weekend), new hobbies (discovering writing again for example), weight training, etc. I feel I don’t have enough time to do it all! We do not need someone to make us happy. I pray for you, Say Something, that you will find your way. You deserve it!
Sofia,
It’s good to hear from you. Yes, last June. Stuckness. If you see my recent posts, I am thinking along the lines of “complicated grief” aka “traumatic grief” which makes me feel like an idiot. Because nobody died. Just my hopes and dreams. But it does feel like processing a death. In a way. The abruptness, betrayal, lack of empathy, no closure other than DONE, the emergence of a seemingly different person at the end all resulted in a traumatic response from me. I recognize this. Everything I believed, thought, and felt was countered with immediate opposition. I need to detach from everything connected to him. When I remember “good things” it is actually painful because it’s gone. Everything about him is painful to me. The perpetuation is like an addiction. And it sucks.
I hope you find direction in your career ambition project!
Say Something,
Have you seen any shift or improvement in the 11 months of grieving? I found myself even after 11 months having painful stuck weeks. But my pain was never constant. It was like waves. High, low, shallow, subside, and up again. Now, 15 months, I forgot when I felt sad about him. And if I do, I won’t get worried about it. It’s ok to feel sad, but then get back to your life promptly. Do you have waves or always steady with no change? Or getting worse? If your finances allow, try another therapist. I am thinking your therapist might be perpetuating and feeding your self-analysis and wallowing by allowing you to bathe into your sorrow for too long. Just because she is a therapist it doesn’t mean she knows exactly what to do or has a right approach for YOU. Like you, I am a very analytical person and very sensitive to criticism (I have been becoming better though in the last few months. Being easier on myself and not so analytical, although I can’t help it sometimes – it’s a natural quality, but nowadays I apply it in practical situations and discard when it concerns the matter of the soul). At about a year mark there is usually a shift, even if a slight one. Otherwise it can extend into a lifetime. I am in no way hurrying you saying you have to get better. No, I am just trying to suggest a different therapeutic approach, in which another professional can apply a different method. There is a Gestalt approach I heard about. Completing a part of our live and moving on to the next one. Seems like you might have uncompleted gestalt. Stuck grief, complicated grief. You can’t get out on your own from this quadrant/frame of your life. Look around for other therapists even if you like yours. i have a feeling you might be stuck in your addiction of pain. This is addiction now on top of grief. Look for referrals. Seek for another counselor. I have a firm belief that once you are under different treatment, you will start seeing a change. Addicted grief…. Seems like a new term. I keep you in my thoughts and prayers and hope you find your path to healing. Faith? Do you believe in God? My faith is what has been healing me. The other sources have been secondary although important as well.
Another advice, try not to analyze and read books on the subject. As you see, it doesn’t help anymore. With people like you and me (overanalytical) it leads to paralysis overanalysis and no answers and more frustration and sadness. There is no answer, Say Something. I read so many stories on another blog about married women, whose husbands (seemingly happy and great dads), leave for a younger lover (typically) and families are broken. Families that were built on love and care and respect. For 5-10–20-30! years. How do you explain that? commitment, so much time together . You become one body and one unit. And all gone. I read lots of heartbreaking stories. Women pick themselves up within 1-2 years and move on. They are some who stay stuck in the grief for 2+ over years. That’s an addiction at that point.
There is no answer. They do it because we are individuals. We live our lives as we choose. We have freedom to do what we want to do and make choices. That’s the acceptance for me for whatever happens because of others’ behavior. You just have to live your life regardless.
Hi Sofia,
It’s hard for me to measure change. I’m not where I was in the immediate aftermath. I know I’ve improved since then. Lately I’ve noticed I sometimes go 10 minutes at a time without having intrusive thoughts. But I want hours. Days. Weeks. Forever. I want to forget. I remember you saying that eventually I’ll just get sick of it. I need a breakthrough. Inside, the pain is still intense. The “what happened to the great guy” stuck rumination theme.
Next week I’m going to ask my therapist what she knows about complicated/ traumatic grief. I DO get up and live my life everyday. And sometimes I laugh. But I still maintain what feels like eternal sadness. I know it’s not really eternal, at least I hope not.
You’re right. Trying to explain how seemingly bonded people can destroy each other can lead to more questions than answers. I guess part of me thought that, at this point in our lives, why would he just leave? It’s not like we’re teenagers. And he was so good at making me believe that he was for real.
I am not religious, but it doesn’t mean that I don’t believe. However, at this point, turning to religion would not be a good option for me. I need to find acceptance, peace, and learn to forget. I need to retrain my mind and it’s sooooo fricking hard.
I’m happy to hear that you’re feeling better. That gives me hope. 11 1/2 months later. I don’t want to be THIS person anymore. Right now I can feel the tension in my entire body. Is that what happens when anxiety and sadness is suppressed? I’m in public so it has to be this way.
Keep going, Sofia! I’m trying to tag along behind you. And if MJ isn’t in dangerous stilettos, she’s working hard too.
Hello Say Something,
I needed this laugh today. Yes that is me running around in my heels. I am about to go out and run in and out of stores at a break neck pace. I don’t want to risk running into Judas on a peaceful Sunday morning. It would be upsetting.
@Sofia I left a note for you with links for some career information.
Ladies I was reading stories very late last night about women who have had marriages fall apart after 30 years. I was reading these stories to understand their survival techniques. I am ordering a book today – Walking Home by Sonia C (cant think of last night). I did a search on her and watched interviews about how she healed. It is so inspirational. She did a pilgrimage that was almost 600 miles (WOW). I do really long walks in nature almost everyday. It helps.
I hope everyone reading BR is enlightened and healed as we work toward this daily.
Hugs MJ.
Say Something, I know what you mean about having a 10-minute time period without thinking of him. When I realized it happened to me finally more often, I was so excited. I don’t remember now when it happened (a good sign!). I think around 9-month mark maybe. Then, after that it started improving much faster. Now, there are days I don’t think about him. But still he crosses my mind every week. You will get there! I too couldn’t believe why I was thinking of him every day still 9-10 months after. And then, a shift occurred and finally I felt it started letting go on its own. Something finally turned without me noticing. Amazing process. The body and soul healing themselves. Given time, hope and patience – they will.
Thanks Sofia,
I hope that I am normal in the sense that I will make progress. I continue thinking that things don’t work for me like they do for others. This weekend presented me with several challenges. I won’t go into detail, but I seemed to be hit, rapid fire. Additionally, I had several distractions, but that lingering pain continues to torment me. Hope you’re doing well. It gives me hope too.
Hi Freedom,
Thank you for your thoughts. I do have a weekly or biweekly session with a psychologist. I started going last year, and it’s been a slooooow process. She immediately pointed out that I was experiencing grief, which I didn’t even realize at the time. All I knew was that something felt so very wrong. I’m not where I started out, but yes, I’m stuck. She has also noted that I am incredibly hard on myself, which I’ve always known.
Say Something,
I want to share a link with you to a book that I love. It helps to shape positive thoughts. I read this book over and over again. I have copies that I give to people as gifts.
Our thoughts really dictate the life we live. I am trying daily to train my thought processes. I did a tough run the other day. Initially, I didn’t think I could do it. But I started telling myself that I could do it. What looked too hard suddenly was done. I started having some inner dialogue with myself about the fact that I could do it and I did. That run kicked my butt. LOL.
The book is by James Allen- As A Man Thinketh. Have you heard of this book? This book is a short read, but I think it is SO POWERFUL. The link is below.
https://wahiduddin.net/thinketh/as_a_man_thinketh.pdf
Thank you Say Something, Elgie,
Why and Application for your advise to my earlier post. I am so glad to have found this site. So yesterday morning Friday I sent my BF this message. His lady friend
is arriving in the afternoon.
“Hi. I just want to let you know that it is not ok with me that you are having a lady friend coming to stay alone with you in your house this weekend. I cannot be with someone who is ok to having other female company and possibly sharing physical closeness with another female.
I see this is how you want things to be for you and of course you have every right to do what you want. But I cannot be in this kind of open relationship with the man I’m with, being free to be with other women.
I know you are not sure about me (long term) but from my understanding at the moment we are still together. So for me it is not acceptable that you can just decide to be with or go see another woman anytime you feel like it.
Maybe you want a different kind of relationship than what I want. And if this is the arrangement that you prefer sorry but I cannot go with it.
I love you, I care for you and I want you to be happy. But I don’t think it’s right for me to stay with you if you plan to continue like this because it is really not comfortable for me.
I want a trusting, monogomous, caring relationship with someone who cares about my feelings, who cares enough to make me feel safe, secured, respected and loved. I hope you understand. No hard feelings. I understand we are different. We value and want different things. I just want to be clear with you on how I feel about the situation.”
This is his reply,
“You assume I want an open relationship? No way. I am a man to one woman only. You know I am still with you and you only. I am not even starting a new relationship with this lady. She is just a friend. So this is the kind of love you have for me. It leads you to over react like this when there is no reason to. Why do you worry that I will be physical with her when it has not even happened? Why are you like this when we are not even married? And I don’t like the tone of your message. Enjoy your weekend.”
I don’t understand what he means. So is it ok to be with a woman as long as he is not starting a new relationship with her?
For the first time he did not call me to say goodnight. I know she is now at his house. I don’t know what will happen to us after this weekend with her. The pain is unbearable I cannot describe.
Tea Party,
He is irresponsible, uncommitted, selfish, passive aggressive douchebag. Immature and a liar. In that message he said everything about him you need to know. Don’t read between the lines, don’t analyze. I know when we like someone, we deceive ourselves and our thinking is clouded. This guy is using you for emotional boost and ego stroke. He is a user. RUN RUN RUN.
Wow. Your BF is using classic passive-aggressive (PA) techniques. He was probably shocked by your directness and clear vision for yourself, so now he has to make it appear that YOU are the confused one. He is attempting to draw you into the PA game of “No I didn’t say that/you misunderstood/you misheard me/you are the one who is wrong”.
Don’t debate facts with him. Never debate with a PA, they are experts at twisting facts and winning debates. I mean, how many ways are there to interpret “he is not planning to have sex with her but cannot really promise that nothing will happen” ? With a PA, there are 1 million ways, all of them with the end result being YOU ARE WRONG.
You certainly shocked your PA. PAs cannot handle people who are independent-minded. He is trying to regain control of your mind. His goal is to make you feel so insecure and uncertain that you start to accept any behavior from him in order to not be judged as crazy.
He is an emotional child, regardless of his chronological age. There are so many people like this in the world. The 53 year-old single EUM I know is like this. I remember having one of these “you misunderstood” debates. So draining. So pointless. They have no empathy and will never see another person’s point of view and will always make you feel like you are the crazy one. It’s lonely being in a relationship with a PA. You will never be enveloped with warmth and understanding.
It’s your call, Tea Party. This 5-month thing, is it worth it to continue? Five months isn’t very long. He’s not the last-chance-saloon.
Passive Aggressive CrazyMaking
Ugh Tea Party what a douchbag!!! You need to break it off with him immediately before he wastes any more of your life.
The answer to his question “Why do you worry that I will be physical with her when it has not even happened”? are clear in what he has already told you: I know my bullshit radar would be on high alert if a guy I was seeing said this.
– he does not want to tell his female friend that he has a girlfriend (me).
– He told me he is not planning to have sex with her but cannot really promise that nothing will happen.
– and I fear about things that has not yet happened.
I wouldn’t trust him as far as I could kick him.
Seriously, it’s only been 5 months – get out now while you still can. It does not sound like he is adding anything worthwhile to your life at all. Trust me, you will feel much better if you break it off now than if you wait around and keep hoping he will give you what you want until he decides to either dump you or keep you hanging on while he sees other women. And he will see other women no doubt in my mind about that.
Trust your instincts.
Tea Party,
Didn’t you say that he does not want this woman to know about you? How does that make you feel?
You wrote an honest letter and he responded by berating you not calling you for the first time. And now you are in pain. You wanted him to call you, apologize for hurting you, and make you feel better. Did he? You wanted him to cancel his visit with her. Did he? You wanted him to understand you. Did he? You want to feel respected and loved by this man. Do you?
I am not even starting a new relationship
It has not even happened
We are not even married
Read again, above, without the bolded words.
“I don’t understand what he means.” That’s on purpose. Read about blame shifting and verbal abuse.
“So is it ok to be with a woman as long as he is not starting a new relationship with her?” You already know the answer. Of course it isn’t ok. You told us that. You told him that.
“I don’t know what will happen to us after this weekend with her.” You can make that decision yourself before he makes it for you.
“The pain is unbearable I cannot describe.” I’m sure you didn’t sleep well. Try to believe in YOURSELF. Pain is a sign of danger. Pay attention to it. We’re all on your side.
Wow. He knows how to cover his tracks and tries to make you feel guilty.
Tell him that you are impressed with how creatively he writes. Also ask him, “I’m confused about what you said about my ‘tone’–please why don’t you explain?–‘tone’ is the word I happen to use on children when they are vocally/verbally out of line.”
I thought you were too easy on him.
Sofia,
I read your comment about marriages that break up after 30 years. I have read similar stories. Heartbreaking. These type of stories have helped in my healing. It is just reality. When people are ready to move on they just do. It all boils down to acceptance. That is what I strive for each day-just acceptance. This weekend has proven to be a tough one for me. Loneliness. I have kept myself busy. My therapy is with a massage therapist. I have a great spa that I go to and just spend lots of time. I use the steam room and lots of other great services that just leaves me in a state of calm.
I know that you have been busy trying to find a new career. I wanted to share some article with you. I hope you find something you LOVE doing. Then it want feel like work.
Articles about finding a career you are passionate about.
http://tinybuddha.com/blog/try-this-if-youre-struggling-to-find-your-passion/
http://www.thesimpledollar.com/seven-steps-to-finding-what-youre-truly-passionate-about/
http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lifestyle/how-to-find-your-passion.html
http://www.lifehack.org/articles/money/10-lies-stop-telling-yourself-about-your-career.html
Hi Mary Jane,
Thank you for the support and the links! I am checking them out right now. I will find something that’s right for me. The one who seeks will find.
You are doing really well! Much better than most of us! I like your confidence and optimism. It’s wonderful you have your outlet (spa, massage, shoes, shopping, hair, manicure, etc). I am running out of time this weekend to do all that I wanted to do. I went to the church on Saturday and Sunday services, to the park with my daughter, chores, and errands and couple other things and Sunday is almost over. Life is so full of things to do. We don’t need a man to live our life. Absolutely not!
Hi Sofia,
Thanks for your supportive words. I was at yoga early this morning and I thought of another idea for YOU. Have you considered talking to a life coach? This can help give you some guidance about what you want to do. They usually do they initial consult free so that you can decide if you wan to take this route. You could talk to a couple.
It would at least get your creativity flowing. Then you can sit back and think about what you want to do.
I am starting to get busier just like YOU. Pretty soon more time will be filled with things to do. That will give me less time to let those negative thoughts creep in and take over.
I hope your new career starts to take shape. That will be really rewarding for YOU. Let me know how things are going.
MJ
I cant even begin to tell you how much I needed to read this today. I’ve been out of a relationship for over a year, but just two months of living separately. I have had a huge amount of guilt about “taking” the house away from him, although I bought it and absorbed all of the debt. He felt like he should be able to come and go as he pleased, and finally after an incident yesterday when he came to the yard to pick up some things, I had to email him and give him a date to be done with moving out. I felt like it was going to be an ongoing control thing. Ive felt huge guilt when in fact I shouldn’t have. Its so difficult to stop taking responsibility for his emotional well being. This post was so helpful.
I feel like my ex was not communicating because he thought he would be a bad person to mention things he didnt like. He felt it was best just to act as though all was well while secretly feeling turned off by my busy life style and consequential less than stellar wardrobe because I just felt too busy to spend much time thinking about it. As I look back I wonder if he felt I didnt feel he was important enough to dress up for. I just felt I would definitely do more when I could but I was sticking him in my schedule and he didnt seem to mind. That is… until he broke up with me. I hate that it seemed so small but he held it in as though he were under duress and he had to break himself free of accepting what he felt was unacceptable. Communication would have done us a lot of good.
Just read this post and the previous two after not visiting the site for about a year – just the advice I needed! I have someone who has been blanking me for 2 months because they say they are too ill and can’t get out, however he has got into work (sometimes), can walk the dog and has managed to get to other appointments. when I tried to find out what the hell was going on and asked why I was the only person he couldn’t manage to see saying said his actions were selfish and that any worries he had he should share and I could help, he told me that nothing I could say or do could help him and that me ‘moaning’ was giving him more stress and I should back off because he needed to focus on himself and he would give me a call when he felt up to it. I felt guilty because I know his illness is genuine, but nowhere on the nhs website does it say that the symptoms of his particular problem were to be rude and ignorant. I realise that I need to let go of this person because they just want me there when THEY want – an armchair psychiatrist when they feel like it without giving nothing in return. Being there for him whenever he feels like it comes at the price of me hurting me. I feel bad because I feel like Im deserting him when he needs me most, even though he says I can’t help I know its the depression talking. But carrying on like this is making me feel totally unwanted and used. I guess Ive got to accept that sometimes you have to get over those guilty feelings – that me seemingly being ‘selfish” is actually me standing up for myself.