If you’ve been involved in an unavailable relationship, or been frustrated by certain friends, family, or coworkers, you may have noticed something which if you don’t heed the real meaning, you’ll instead take it as some sort of indication of your worth:
These people are often very comfortable with disappointing you by failing to meet your hopes and expectations, plus promises and plans that they’ve made, yet they’ll practically break their neck to ensure that they don’t disappoint certain people. They’ll do things like:
– Thinking that it’s OK to cancel on you if a better offer comes up.
– Thinking that it’s OK to leave it till the last minute to ask you out / to do something because they’re exploring all other options.
– Expect you to say YES. Always. Even when they know that they’re disrespecting you.
– Expect you to be all adoring, accepting and forgiving no matter what they do so even when they eff up, they don’t exactly go out of their way to genuinely apologise and show remorse, often expecting you to ‘move on’ (read: hurry the eff up and get over it so that they can press the Reset Button).
– Breaking it off with you to go back to the same person and then coming back to you when it goes tits up. Or just ditching you every time a better offer comes up.
– Claiming that the reason why they treat you as they do is because, for instance, you’re the ‘strong’ one in the family or don’t need as much as the others, or some other weird reason to justify why they treat you differently.
– Failing to do something for you and then doing the exact same thing or similar for someone else even though you’re still waiting on them. Often they’ll keep telling you that they’re going to get to your job eventually but in essence they keep bumping you when something that they’re afraid to jeopardise their image over, comes along.
This can feel like a smack in the teeth and if you’re prone to internalising these experiences and inclined to correlate them to your worth, you’ll wonder “What’s wrong with me? Why are they being so nice to them / doing stuff for them but they’re not for me?” You may even feel like a fool and wonder why you’re the ‘exception’ plus it will cause you to question your judgement because even if you know that they’re just not that special and have in fact experienced some rather shady behaviour on their part, them pulling out the stops for someone else makes you wonder if you’ve misinterpreted their actions, or have missed the memo that informed you of what you’ve done to piss them off.
Their behaviour isn’t pretty, clever, or flattering and it’s only natural to feel away, or hurt and angry about it.
No matter how much self-esteem you have, in the first instance it smarts to experience that moment when you realise that really, you’re not a priority. You don’t rank high on their Best To Avoid Disappointing Index.
After the realisation strikes, it’s important to step back and see these situations for what they are – an opportunity to learn about the flipside to a person and how comfortable and confident they feel about maintaining the respect, trust, and affections you have for them no matter what they do. They know that you have them on a pedestal and that you have more confidence and love for them than they deserve.
People, rightly or wrongly, get a sense of how they can treat you and what they can get away with via their own actions and your boundaries which you demonstrate with your own actions and words. When you’re someone who strives to match their actions and words, as well as living congruently with your values, it’s very difficult to habitually disappoint people or even have one of those switchy personalities that picks and chooses who they want to roll out their nicey-nice and assholic character for, which is very inauthentic.
When you make a judgement about you based on how someone treats you, instead of judging their actions or at least the situation, you’re actually agreeing with what you think their assessment is and feeding into a widely held belief by people who struggle with low self-esteem, that inappropriate, unhealthy or even abusive behaviour has a rationale and can be accepted when the recipient of it isn’t worthy of something better, as if you’re communicating your worth and influencing their behaviour.
What you can learn from people who seem to think that it’s OK to disappoint you and to keep disappointing you, while appearing to be more conscientious with others, is that they’re clearly aware that they can and should act better and are actually capable of it, at least on a surface level, but they’ll show their real selves and let it all hang out to someone who they think will take them any which way.
The question you then have to ask yourself is: are you being the person who will take them any which way? Is it ok to disappoint you?
I learned from first-hand experience that if a person thinks that you’re blinded to who they really are, or you do know but don’t seem deterred, or they’ve been manipulative with their compliments to sell you their behaviour – “You’re so kind, generous, understanding, and supportive..” or even “I’m so glad you’re not like everyone else making demands on me..” – which you lap up and see as a compliment while they’re slipping their shady behaviour under the radar, they will gradually become increasing complacent and even careless about your feelings and your relationship. They’ll also feel free to disappoint you if they know that you’re validation hungry.
If someone believes that you’re so enamoured with them that you won’t leave, create conflict or consequences, or at least tell them to jog on (and mean it) when they try to push the boundaries, not only will they relax, but they just won’t value you enough to genuinely fear the loss of you.
When they can keep disappointing, it’s because they’re being believed in and given another chance, when really they should be getting the heave ho or at the very least, an increase in boundary security.
Of course disappointments can and will happen in life, because it’s inevitable that people, things, and situations will fail to live up to our hopes and expectations for them. That said, what you don’t want is certain people keeping you in their mental It’s OK To Disappoint Roladex.
No it’s not OK and actually whether you say it verbally or through action, make sure that you communicate this and stick to your guns, because when someone experiences medium to long-term consequences as opposed to short-term, hollow ones that they can eventually brush off and weasel their way back in on, they know to think twice about letting you down or recognise that they need to move on, because even if they appease you on a surface level like they do others, they’re never actually going to stump up with substance anyway.
And that’s something else to remember here – yes it would be nice if they saw fit to not disappoint you, but all that glitters isn’t gold and when you take them off their pedestal, you’ll see that due to their surface action, they have very little, if any, genuinely intimate, healthy substantial relationships. Even if you got what you think that they give everyone else, they’d still disappoint you on a deeper level.
The greatest amount of disappointment actually comes from continuing to hold out hope after someone has shown and told you who they are. Trust the feedback from their actions (or lack thereof) and instead of lowering your self-esteem, it’s time to adjust your perception and expectations of them, and act accordingly.
Your thoughts?
The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship is now available from my bookshop along with with Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl.
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Wow. This article is SO wonderfully timed. Yes, I am in a very happy relationship with my fiance (two more months until the wedding, thank goodness!) but that does not mean my future in-laws are wonderful. Trying to cross my boundaries left and right.
JUST last night he and I were talking about expectations and boundaries and this morning this article is posted that pretty much sums it up.
Natalie, please get outta my head!
*hugs!*
Damn! This is exactly what I’ve been experiencing in my friendships and in my past relationships. I’ve found out about this website about 2 months ago at a time where I was broken and confused after ending it up with the last AC/EUM (there’s been a long list of them over the past decade) It’s been a month since I’ve been NC with the ex and I’ve been injecting boundaries for the first time in my life ever since. I have faced my fear of ‘having no friends’ for the first time ever as well and guess what? A lot of friends are now wondering why I don’t accept their crappy behavior or their last minute cancellation or whatever any more. I’ve just realized how I used to put people (friends and exes) on a pedestal for no reason and have allowed them to treat me poorly a little too often because I feared/thought that I was not good enough to deserve them. I have finally chosen to put myself first and to trust my gut and it feels GOOD! Thank you so much Natalie!!!
@Nina –
SNAP! Parallel lives – I have made the same mistake and for exactly the same reasons.
I have a couple of female friends in my life who are a bit like this still. Both of them have mental/domestic problems of one sort or another, so I tend to cut them some slack about cancellations etc, but other people who burn me in this way get completely flushed.
I’m pleased and proud that I can now pick these people and don’t over-invest in the friendship. Now, to apply these rules to my romantic relationships … [furrows brow; groans]
Hey Etherelda, thanks for the support on your last post! I commented but NML had already posted a new one:)!
Pet peeves:
1. Disappearing after a date, unreturned calls, texts or other contacts
2. Continuously moving an event / something around
3. Shagging other people while chasing you – people often say ‘it’s ok unless there has been a discussion’ but seriously, they have their d*ck in someone else and they have the cheek to turn around an say that they’re interested in you!
4. Dropping hints that they’ll have ‘more time when X’ when you’re basically trying to extract hen teeth to get more time spent on you
5. I’m busy/I have a friend over/I’m not available then and then quietly NOT making an alternative time/date
TOA
I’ve experienced all 5 with one person! In a short space of time he relentlessly chased me, got me, then gave me every excuse in the book as to why he had to keep cancelling or couldn’t make it. My mistake was I didn’t just walk away. Instead I internalised the whole episode and allowed it to really get to me in an unhealthy way. Never again!
Sigh.
More is coming back to me now. The AC had a lot of friends who he spent a lot of time with, doing fun things. EXCEPT WITH ME. With me it was always 1:1. If him and I go together to do anything, it was never with his friends. In fact, the entire time we knew each other, I met his friends ONCE at his birthday. He said that ‘he wasn’t good with groups’ which is BS because the time we were seeing/talking each other he was off camping, doing things etc. Never included me, it was always ‘I’m so busy, I will have more time in a few months/when my car is fixed/blahblahblah.
Makes me furious just writing about it. How did I manage to be treated so sh*t and not realise this creeping up on me?
I think maybe it’s because we make excuses for them initially/give them the benefit of the doubt, and then keep it up for far too long. I can understand someone not introducing a person they are dating to all their friends at the very beginning of dating, but at least by a few months in…..come on. But you’re not the only one who has put up with things she should not have–I’m still alternately sad/angry remembering aspects of how the EU treated me as well. Live and learn I guess, and resolve to never make excuses for someone treating us in a ‘less than’ manner again.
TOA
Your post made me laugh. not cos it’s funny but cos I relate!
Sheesh. I still find myself getting furious just thinking about the same kind of crap you describe. What on earth was I thinking? I wasn’t thinking hard enough – that’s what.
Even more is coming back to me!
I remember making out with him before I had to leave for work in a different state for a month. He said he liked all of me and we made out. Mind you this was four weeks after having said that he didn’t want to sleep with me anymore, but really really enjoyed my cuddle and that I had a great body.
And while I was away, we were playing text ping pong where I’d be like ‘I want to have cuddle in bed with you’ or ‘I like you a lot’ and he’d text back ‘Yes, I’d like to be cuddling you too, it’s quite cold now’.
CONFUSING MUCH?!?!?!
No wonder I didn’t know my ass from my elbow when I got out.
agree: passive agressive bs is soooo annoying. I swear the next time someone does that I am just going to say, blank-faced, “It seems that you are not happy but you don’t have the respect or courage to say anything, so lets just not keep making plans”:)
dancingqueen:
I’m pinching that line, if you don’t mind. Passive-aggressive annoys the hell out of me as well.
These are great rules to live you. Thank you. I want to go through a list of people and get rid of them. Right now.
Wow, this reminds me of my exhusband. He put his boss and friends ahead of me and his family (parents,siblings). He went overboard kissing their behinds and would do things for them that he refused to do for me. One particular instance, us and the boss moved to another state for the company, we all had our furniture delivered on the same day. The ex went over and helped the boss who had a wife and two teenage children move things around and left me all by myself to do our moving. Now I know this is going to sound bad but I wanted to blow his head off and thankfully we didnt have any guns. I told him off, but to no avail and he basically just ignored me. When I left him two years later for more of the same treatment, he screamed like a wounded dog. Could not believe I would dare, couldnt go on with his life, his whole family was angry with me. He started dating a girl immediately that he met in a bar while out with his friends that he met two weeks before I left (his words). He married her and then she divorced him years later and I can guarantee for the same thing. Now ladies if you want to pick up a separated man, just think of this tool and dont do it.
Act is the key word! Excellent as usual Nat. Spot on!
I have found that when I communicate too well to people that ‘Fearless doesn’t mind’ they very quickly cross the line into thinking ‘Fearless doesn’t matter’ and then treat me accordingly (cue ex EUM!)
Fearless,
I hear you, and I’ve had to teach people that “don’t mind” and “like” are two different things when it comes to me. Most reasonable people don’t mind being cancelled on at the last minute if a reasonable explanation is given and the situation is unavoidable, or at least we’ll understand and get over it. However, I don’t think any of us like being cancelled on at the last minute for a lame excuse. It really speaks to the boundaries that we set in place, because if we have them firmly in place then others will know that they need to use their good judgment when dealing with us.
Wow.
This article was needed so badly today, Natalie!
It has actually hampered my recovery from a psychopathic man. He did this constantly and combined with my low self esteem, having been sexually, emotionally and spiritually abused by this man, and watching him kiss the asses of others, and NOT me AT ALL, was a deep ache and pain I’ve felt since the break up a year and a half ago. He has since remarried recently, and I found out he was trying to hook up just three months prior to THIS marriage, with someone else in another state. So is he REALLY treating others better? I think not and I dodged a bullet and thank God every single day that HE freed me from that piece of low life SHIAT!
I’ve been single a year and am doing a lot of trauma work in therapy. MY life is slowly coming around again. I’m a domestic violence advocate and have an FB page now for those who have been abused by disordered men and women and the enlightenments I’ve had from others stories has been profound, but I must say that if you’re not a therapist, you OUGHT to be (no, not trying to tell ya what to do), because you have enormously gifted insight that helps many. Including ME. It’s all a matter of learning to get in touch with ourselves, work on our shit and excavate!
Thanks again!
Natalie
It feels so good to see this situation written.
I have been in this situation for the last 5 years minimum.
My Ex. Eum constantly disappointed and I felt he got some enjoyment from it. We bought a house that needed work and after the 1 st few years he lost interest, leaving me to fund and complete the rest.
We argued about this, childcare , housework and that he never wanted to do anything with me but always be busy helping avnd going out with others. my issue was he never wanted to compromise or sort any of the problems out.
When w spoke he had this habit of avoiding answers, he would hear then change the subject or just avoid answering completely.
All this me really frustrated and angry
Another BRILLIANT post! I’m just going through this with yet another work friendship. I finally got ged up with someone who picked & chose when she would be friendly or indifferent to me depending on her mood, or would use me as a dumping ground for her work frustrations. It’s been about a month, and it feels GREAT no longer having that toxicity in my day.
The sad thing is, there seem to be so few people really worth befriending.
After being disappointed time and time again and making excuses for it, finally found the balls to send this AC the message that it’s not okay, you are not all that, you fuck with me, you pay the consequences – and that is through NC!
NML & Fellow BR Readers,
I found your site about 6 months ago when I began to realize that the reality of my 8 year relationship was that my partner was an emotionally and verbally abusive assclown/EU. It seems so obvious now, but it wasn’t then. It helped to know that I wasn’t alone and to finally see what was fantasy and what was reality. I read Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl–fabulous! and am also reading your Fantasy/Dreamer book–already fabulous and I just started it. I’ve started learning about the importance of showing care, trust, love, and respect for me rather than thinking that crumbs are all I deserve or being so confused by Resets, Amending Terms & Agreements, Managing the Status Quo, Dripfeeding and dubious behavior.
My partner didn’t cheat or beat, and the great behavior and spin stories sometimes were enough to make me actually believe the crumbs were about to turn into a meal, or that she was even capable of cooking one…now I know better. It even got so far that mine agreed that we shared marriage vows (with some unusual conditions, of course like no one would know because she didn’t think people would accept our relationship due to an age difference or their problems with gay relationships) and then told me a few months later (after I’d called her on not coming through with some major agreements based on our change in relationship status) that she never really meant the marriage vow, but had said it and done it so I would stop badgering her about it. When I asked for clarification, the story changed to she had meant it and wanted to mean it, but then it just didn’t seem right for her to be in a relationship with anyone…she wants to be without a partner–that’s cool and I respect that, but that was a different story from what I heard the 8 years about how she wanted us to work but I kept doing X, Y, and Z, so she couldn’t really commit more fully.
Part of what really fooled me was that she was a respected minister who seemed to have really good relationships with others. But this post really hits the nail on the head…when I look at those friendships, there isn’t much substance or depth, and part of why we “worked” as long as we did is that she could be deep and intimate, provided it was only for a few days that we were together on the weekends and then not much during the week.
Although it feels good to share my story, what I really want to say is that I will always have gratitude for Baggage Reclaim for helping my soul heal. I know now that when my true partner comes, I will be ready. I know now how to spot fakes. And most importantly, I know that no matter what circumstances arise, my job is to live my life with trust, care, love, respect, and dignity for myself and others. Thank you, NML and blessing on all my fellow BR Readers.
blessings back onya.
that she never really meant the marriage vow, but had said it and done it so I would stop badgering her about it.
What? This is the ‘you-made-me-do-it’. She could have said something or just cut it off?!
Great post. These two describe the EU exactly:
– Expect you to say YES. Always. Even when they know that they’re disrespecting you.
– Expect you to be all adoring, accepting and forgiving no matter what they do so even when they eff up, they don’t exactly go out of their way to genuinely apologise and show remorse, often expecting you to ‘move on’ (read: hurry the eff up and get over it so that they can press the Reset Button).
The guy would be a total ass and then call me up expecting that we would both pretend everything was fine. When I was really feeling over it after a really bad phone call where he was really horrible, I didn’t talk to him for a while. He then called up acting like things were great, and wanted me to rush out that second to buy groceries and cook for him. Seriously, is there not a person on earth who will get tired of that bs eventually? You think they would learn their lessen when women finally walk away, but I guess these guys just prefer moving on to someone new rather than actually living/acting with some integrity and adjusting their MO.
It’s also good to remember, as you say, that even if they are nice to others on the surface, if they are treating you poorly then it’s in their character to do so. Thus, even if he showed you his good side, it wouldn’t last. I know this but it still bothers me sometimes. Even little things, like how the EU was all excited to look at pictures that a female friend sent him of her new place (in my presence). I moved a bit later and mentioned that I could send him a link of photos to the new place, and heard “why do I need to see it, I’m sure it has a roof, you’re not on the street” (or some such crap).
I swear Natalie must be spying on me because this is another post that rings so true in my life right now! I wrote a few days ago about my UM blowing off my birthday. Well, on my birthday he sent a pathetic cartoon text with a birthday cake. I’m sure he just forwarded it from someone else because he doesn’t know how to do that. It didn’t even have my name on it! LOL Anyway, I text back with just a “thanks.” I haven’t contacted him since.
Does he really think I should jump for joy to get a stupid text? He is out of town, but n0 phone call, no mailed card, nothing. He is a big chicken s**t. I know he is now thinking “I’ll wait a little longer until I think she isn’t mad anymore, or I’ll hold out and wait for her to contact me” because I normally would have. Ick.
I was thinking that maybe he just doesn’t get it . I’m always last on the list in other areas too, so I’m not just whining about a birthday. Among a long time of other things, he has been pretty much just breezing in and out of the door lately, keeps saying he loves me but never asks me anything about me or my life, and claims his “running cold” is all in my head. He always acts the injured party and makes me feel stupid because I’m being “too sensitive”
But now reading Natalie’s post, I feel better knowing that HE knows exactly why I’m upset and that HE is an a***ole for disappointing me yet again. He acts like he doesn’t get it, shakes his head like I’m overreacting, but now I know HE DOES GET IT! It’s my own fault I’ve let it get this bad, and I’m embarrassed to be such a doormat, even with him always saying “I didn’t do anything” when confronted with anything. Now, I have to figure out what I’m going to say or do when I know he will try and contact me. I know it is pointless, but why do I care what he thinks? Why can’t I just stop thinking I have to make him understand? I read Natalie’s piece on over explaining and it is helpful. I have to just stop caring if he is mad or sad or whatever. 🙁
I wrote a few days ago about my UM blowing off my birthday. Well, on my birthday he sent a pathetic cartoon text with a birthday cake. I’m sure he just forwarded it from someone else because he doesn’t know how to do that. It didn’t even have my name on it! LOL Anyway, I text back with just a “thanks.” I haven’t contacted him since.
OMG!! I think I shall weep! Are you sure that you’re not dating my guy? After he slept with me, withdrew (yes, a NO SEX/No Title/Not even physically present most of the time text-addict Mr. Unavailable!) and then told me I had a great body and liked my cuddling a lot and really really enjoyed my cuddles and wanted me around as ‘friend with cuddle benefits’, (deep breath), guess what I get on my birthday.
An effing TEXT.
*insert multiple expletives here*
BC,
If this guy couldn’t be bothered to call on your birthday and he has pulled a disappearing act waiting for you to “get over it”, I don’t think you owe him anything. If he does not respect you enough to keep in contact, why do you owe it to him to take his calls and offer him an explanation? If you think it would help *you* to stick to your decision by saying something to him, then I would keep it short. If/when he starts trying to contact you again, you can just tell him (or text, email, whatever) that you’re tired of his rude, disrespectful, crap treatment and you’re not doing this anymore. Over, done. Then stick with it and don’t respond to his attempts at contact.
BC,
I think silence is more effective.
If he didn’t even have the decency to call on your b-day, then why would you feel the need to explain anything.
BC,
I’m sorry, but you can’t make someone understand that doesn’t care, nor should you want to.
Please, move on from this situation, and block all forms of contact. This man is a complete waste of time, and you know that you deserve more than this crap!
Reread your post – one hundred time if necessary – it’s time to respect yourself.
BC sometimes they do think that the crumbs they are chucking your way are the golden loaves because the have limited capacity in relationships and they equate the ‘effort’ of a text with ‘effort’, whereas for us it is a display of lack of effort. Sometimes they are using a different yardstick based on their own idea of what constitutes ‘effort’ (or such the like).
But whether he ‘gets it’ or not is really beside the point, and I think mostly they ‘get it’ just fine – they don’t live in a box; they see the same as everyone else does how other men have both feet in their relationships and what other people’s working relationships look like! Whichever, it’s not your job to explain to some man-child what a decent adult relationship looks like; it’s not your job (and neither should you want it!) to explain to this man why sending a crumby text cartoon on your birthday is just. not. good. enough. What you deserve is a man who *already* knows this and/or is not a total piss taker.
The most important thing here is that YOU know it’s not even nearly good enough (and you seem to have recognised this, so that is a good start! Some of us have not woken up to this yet). Stop looking for verification from him that you are right. You *are right*. You *know* you are right. That should be enough for you. Stop trying to get him to agree with you! Stop trying to explain your way into changing him into a man who’s worth having, who knows how to respect a woman in a relationship. He is NOT that man. Accept it.
Don’t try to make him understand/explain to him ever again *why* his treatment is not nearly good enough. The man who needs that explained to him is the man who will never ‘get it’. It’s not good enough because it is not good enough – that’s why! So just tell him (if you have to tell him anything): “This disrespectful and neglectful attitude of yours is not good enough for me. So goodbye.”
Are you sure, we were not involved with the same guy LOL! No call on my birthday either. I used to give him the benefit of the doubt, but how can he not know? He is an effing doctor? He can’t be that effing stupid! When I didn’t wish him a happy new year, he was so “hurt”! Last contact, (text, his preferred mode), I told him how sick I was of never being asked how I am or what is going on with ME! That we are not friends but “casual acquaintances”. I am sure that “hurt’ him as well. Have not heard, not unusual, I am sure I will, like nothing happened. But something has happened, I have learned not to deal with his nonesense!
Thank you everyone. I will be reading this over and over to remind myself that I have a right to be mad/sad about this situation. I still haven’t heard from him. I know in his pea brain he justifies not calling on my birthday because I had gotten upset that he was going out of town and wouldn’t be there. I had told him I didn’t care about doing anything THAT DAY, but I thought he would have said something like “we will do something this weekend” or make a plan or SOMETHING! He just got annoyed but never did try and make a plan with me. But even if was annoyed, he still should have at least called me. I’m now trying to sit on my hands and not contact him in any way. I try to keep in my imagination the joy I would feel of him scratching his head and thinking “Gee, how come she has contacted me yet?” LOL I know it goes much deeper, its not about this birthday, its about not being cared for, being paid attention to, running hot and cold, etc. Thank you again for all the great thoughts.
I am happy to say that after my last AC, I started talking to this guy and he was future faking like crazy… I put the brakes on because of that and started to take things slower realizing he’s selling himself pretty hard. Eventually (because I wasn’t falling for it) he got tired and got real, when I finally saw him for who he was, it wasn’t a week before I told HIM to move on. Which honestly, he was a great looking man, very charming (in his good moments) and dangled a carrot of this romantic relationship in front of my face which the old me would have chased, completely disregarding all the red flags waving in my face. But this time… at the first sign of AC behavior, I sent him packing. And even though I have a long way to go still in the healing department, I take this as a very good sign.
It is NOT ok to be constantly managed down and dissappointed, told a bucket of lies, allow our heads to be effed with… all in the name of “a possibility.” Watch who they are… do NOT listen to what they say. And be patient ladies, because AC’s can’t play their game too long before they slip up and show you who they are and the minute you see it, even if it’s just a glimpse … RUN!!
Reality
I have to say it (again). Charm isn’t a plus, at best it’s neutral. From what I’ve observed – on here and in my own life, it’s almost a red flag.
If he’s charming you – why? It’s likely he’s trying to flatter you, impress you or seduce you. None of that means anything in terms of a relationship. The most charming ones are the ones who have. had. a. lot. of. practice. Enjoy it for what it is, but don’t conflate it with him having values compatible with yours. And when we’re figuring out if if it’s worth pursuing, don’t hold “charm” up, as many have done, as an overwhelming reason to stay.
Here’s the OED definition of “charmer”:
“a person with an attractive and engaging personality, typically who uses this to impress or manipulate others” . They’ll also use charm to gloss over their disappointing behaviour.
I’m glad you got shot of him.
besides charm, another red flag for me? guys who value “kindness”.
can we be “kind” to each other? can you be “kind” to me? even though i lied to you, and fast forwarded you, and wooed you on false pretenses, and i’m a 54-year-old man who has a favorite person, and that person is my *mother*, and i sleep in superman pajamas (i’m not kidding) and i’m a creepy lothario who uses women for housing and food and i think that if i tell you i have a huge c*ck that you’ll just fall over and abandon your judgment and boundaries and tolerate anything i want to take from/do to you? and then i’ll go stay with my ex-girlfriend? can we be kind?
can YOU be decent and honest? apparently not. so, “kind”? no!!
curb!
cc,
I never found out what he slept in because mom would not let him stay over…. ha ha ha, I can laugh now, still with a little bit of sadness. No sleepovers at 50?
p-
wow, that’s ridiculous, you poor thing. pretty extreme, even for a mama’s boy. (shudders)
Charming men are so over-rated. Grace is right “a person with an attractive and engaging personality, typically who uses this to impress or manipulate others” . They’ll also use charm to gloss over their disappointing behaviour.
My AC charmed the pants off me (literally), manipulated and boosted him self so much that I though I was cloud nine when I met him. But he couldn’t keep up the act for long it only lasted a matter of weeks before he showed signs of selfishness and started his pattern of ignoring me. A lot of woman describe a good man as being charming, good looking etc. But it really doesn’t mean a thing if its not genuine interest. Unfortunately some of them are so good at it that you really have to have your wits about you at all times.
cc, i’m 31 and my ex-AC, who hid his marriage from me, is 50! Lol! I HONESTLY thought that, because of his age, he would be honest, kind, loving, respectful, blah blah blah. But judging from the posts on BR, it appears that age DOES NOT bring sound judgment and temperance to all men.
Anyway, I am 52 days into cold turkey NC. He has been texting (effing crumbs) and when I feel tempted to reply (which happens after a stressful day at work), I just hearken back to when he first started getting shady with me. I had called to ask if he was okay (after not hearing from him all day) and he had SCREAMED at me to leave him alone. Hmmm….and I was very hurt at that instant….but pretty soon I had REASONED with myself that he was just going through tough times and that I really should just give him his space and that once he cooled down we would be back on track and everyone gets angry and on and on and on. Of course, the next day we were on like a camp fire and I just put that incident to the back of my mind.
So, what Natalie says is soooo true: When you have low self-worth and someone, anyone mistreats you, you actually BELIEVE that if you had/hadn’t done this, if you had said/hadn’t said that, etc. then the other person wouldn’t have treated you badly. I reasoned “If I hadn’t been stupid enough to care about my boyfriend being ok, then he wouldn’t have shouted at me. It’s my fault and I don’t blame him.” Seriously, it irks me to think how I let him get away with that flaming RED ALERT!
Aside from the fact that he is married, I could NEVER be with someone who screams at me because I don’t scream at others. One time was enough to give him the heave ho, but life experiences are meant to be life lessons. You shout at me and you’re out. That’s a boundary that I didn’t even know I had.
Thx, Natalie! Great post!
lisalise-
isn’t it wonderful to discover a boundary you didn’t even know you had? wow, your AC sounds like a class act, i’m glad you’re rid of him. NC can be hard, but you sound like you’re doing great.
and yes, one of the first thing i learned when i really started dating for the first time (in my 40s) is that one cannot assume anything about anyone, you must let someone show you who they are (and then i learned here that you HAVE to believe the reality of what they show you).
i had been making all these (ridiculous) assumptions: if the guy is 5-10 years older than i am then he’s a responsible grown-up, right? and if he says he values honesty and openness and kindness, then he practices those qualities, too, right? and if he even has (adult) kids, and seems to adore them, then he knows how to love, and can love a woman, right? so even if his heart seems like its in a box, all i have to do is wait it out, right?
wrong!! on all counts! if i knew then what i know now…
Lisalise and cc – so true. It’s amazing how we can be so blind to what they show us up front. The divorce lawyer was always talking about sex, almost obsessivly. On our 2nd date, I mentioned that I tend to bond with sex. We did fool around a little that night (minor). That apparently set him off and on our 3rd date he went on a verbal rant, about the “one who got away,” which is another twisted story and also about the bitter details of his divorce (7 yrs prior). For three hours. And about wanting to be honest with me, but nothing made sense. Oh yes, then mirandizing me (i.e. managing down my expectations — what he could and could not give me). I literally felt waterboarded and that I had done something wrong to bring out this behavior. He was acting crazy. And here I’m thinking –shouldn’t you just be having fun on date 3?
I kept saying to him that I shouldn’t have made the bonding comment. I felt traumatized by his behavior, then paralyzed. I just stormed off.
Two days later, I contacted him to see if he wanted to clear the air, which we did. But we only lasted another 2 dates before he started ranting again. Then putting me down (did I only wear long skirts; how I would have been happier if I had married and had kids; how I would make the ideal trophy wife).
Most healthy women would have given him the boot after date 3. To this day, I still have feelings for him and don’t know if it was our communication skills together and me not “calling him out” and therefore gaining respect, or him just showing me a side that no healthy woman would put up with.
I just wish I would have discovered BR and the support here a year ago (when we were dating). Armed with these tools, I wonder if I had handled the situation differently and stood up for myself and given it back — if it would have worked out. Or if I would have just walked away with NC and not looked back.
late bloomer-
please stop beating yourself up. seriously. its not you. think about how else he could have reacted to the “bonding” comment – which is practically a universal female trait, thanks to the love chemicals that multiply in our brains when we have sex:
– he could have taken it in and said nothing
– he could have been understanding and warm
– he could have shared with you how physical intimacy makes him feel emotionally (ha! fat chance)
notice how none of these other options include him ranting (!!) at you and judging and objectifying you about your clothes, your looks, your reproductive history. who the hell does he think he is? and this from a guy who is being mean to you and is still hung up on someone else??? is he kidding?
no, honey, you didn’t DO anything. you were being you and HE was being HIM. and he’s awful, awful, awful, disconnected, judgmental, out of control, cruel, unable to relate to others, etc.
if you keep reading BR this will all come clearer. but, right now, please STOP berating yourself. we all have every right to learn what we need to learn, we all make “mistakes”, but y’know what? they’re not really mistakes. they are learning experiences. truly. and you’ll be able to flow forward more easily if you stop with the self-criticism and the “i wish i had done this/that”.
be easy on you. he blindsided you and you didn’t know then. now you know better. so give yourself some love. its ok, really.
late bloomer, more-
i just reread your post again. you really, really need to see how admitting that you tend to bond through sex is such an innocuous, blameless statement of the obvious. its ludicrous to think for 1 second that such a throwaway comment could have set him off. he was always going to get set off, it didn’t matter what you might have said or done, he was on a permanent hair trigger just waiting to go off.
you need to see that this isn’t how he treats YOU, its how he treats WOMEN. he’s, sorry for not sweetening up the expletive, completely fucked up. not good for anyone. not good for you.
please stop attributing his behavior to you. please stop blaming yourself for how you handled him or how long you stayed with him.
again – now you know better. you need to love, *love*, LOVE yourself. and forgive yourself. don’t extend the trauma by treating yourself…exactly how he treated you. do you see? if you don’t deserve that treatment from him, you CERTAINLY don’t deserve it from yourself.
ok, i’m done now.
Um, no, Late Bloomer. There is no “right” way to respond to crazy.
Unilateral, free-form rants in your general vicinity *by someone you barely know* — not your responsibility. Didn’t cause it, can’t control it, can’t cure it.
I know it gets confusing because it feels personal because it occurs in a situation of possible increasing intimacy and because, by the second rant he wasn’t talking about exes but about *you*, how you dress, what you should have done with your life…
But it’s not personal. He has a mill, and anyone who goes on a date for him provides grist for the mill. He’ll pulverize anything in his path.
In a way it’s lucky that you saw the ranting bizarro side on the third date.
Because when this pattern occurs later in a relationship, it’s even easier for the woman to look to herself as the cause or solution, because by then the guy has the info to make it *seem to be about her or “us”.
In your case, it’s crystal clear. Guy has major issues. Issues have nothing to do with you. Issues that will torpedo anything you actually have to offer. And issues that show you he’s angry with women, angry about his past, angry in general, and just champing at the bit to be angry with you.
If I said or did the right thing it could have been wonderful! Nope. you would have become a reactive codependent, walking on eggshells, trying to anticipate and head off at the pass future rants. You’d be taking care of his feelings while he was trampling on yours. And every time you “failed” and he was an ass anyway, you could blame yourself for not trying harder.
Don’t blame yourself either for not dumping him on date 3. We all have this template of “what a healthy woman would never put up with.” Then we get to blame ourselves BOTH for not being able to make the relationship work AND for not getting out clean much earlier.
Guy’s an ass. You hoped he wasn’t and gave him a chance. Not your fault.
late bloomer –
ixnay said it better than i did, is absolutely 100% right.
cc and ixnay – you both said it perfectly. Thanks for the insight — it is very useful. Anything down the line would have set him off, and my comment was innocent , and just a part of me.
Again, very much appreciated.
Carly Simon sings it well in “Coming Around Again”: “so good on paper, so romantic, but so bewildering.”
Grace,
I copied your response to Reality and printed it out. My exfiance was super-charming; I think because he was trying to make up for all his insecurities. I never saw the charm as a red flag. In fact I think it was the main thing that endeared me to him (which is pretty messed-up on my part). My coworkers always gushed about how lucky I was to have a guy bring me flowers and gifts all the time. Even after he lied to me multiple times and became verbally aggressive; all I choose to remember is how “charming” and “thoughtful” he was. And yes, he had loads of experience seducing tons of other women in this way. I was just egocentric enough to believe that I was “special”. Your response has helped me put to bed that final, nagging regret: But he was so charming….I think there’s even a verse in the Bible that says, “beauty is fleeting and charm is deceptive.” Yes, indeed.
Hey Laurie! Thanks for your help last time:)
Yes Grace you nailed it: charm comes from LOTS of practice. 🙂 Thanks for your help on that last post:)
Wow, more fantasticness – thanks for this.
Could someone confirm that my interpretation of this/life is correct? So, actually I haven’t managed to accumulate an entire adulthood’s worth of empirical evidence that I’m socially inept, very annoying, not very reasonable, strangely repellant and of less importance than anyone else. What I’ve accumulated is an entire adulthood’s worth of empirical proof that having rubbishy self-worth then that’ll be reflected in others’ treatment of you.
This is difficult to get my head round – I mean I’ve been coming to terms with the realisation for a long time but it’s so easy to slide back into the negative thought-patterns every time something goes wrong.
There is nothing wrong with me. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ME!! Hurray! You know, I used to scour problem pages and personality quizzes and astrological charts and psychology textbooks to work out what exactly was setting me back on the evolutionary scale. And now I know. Nothing. Except that I assumed that there was SOMETHING wrong with me and possibly some emotional immaturity.
yogurt
yes that’s it. My six months of counselling ended on this rather ordinary note:
“If I think I’m all right then I AM all right”.
The reason why these ACs/EUM/are attractive to us is that – we have so much in common with them! There’s something wrong with us + they treat us as if there’s something wrong with us = BINGO!
And for the double whammy – If we can change them for the better, wouldn’t that be as good as if we had changed ourselves?
yyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy!!!! woo hoo!!!!!
(does the really, really, really happy dance)
Thank you for that, Grace, that really helps.
Yoghurt and Grace – very helpful! Thank you.
Very good description, Yogurt! Grace once said, it might have been to ellyb, ‘the only thing wrong with you is that you think there’s something wrong with you.’
For a long time I’d read that and my mind simply went aha!! You see, there IS something wrong with me! And so on.
Now I get it. I still have a pretty inground habit of looking at what’s wrong with me whenever I hit a patch of frustration, as though my default was “fix-Magnolia-and-this-problem-disappears” instead of the new default: “How can I resolve this problem?” It is SO much nicer being in my own skin when problem-solving, which we all must do every day, doesn’t involve an inventory of what we might fix about Magnolia.
Thanks for this, Yogurt. Inspirational.
“For a long time I’d read that and my mind simply went aha!! You see, there IS something wrong with me! And so on.”
Yea, this rings bells.
I’ve known for most of my twenties (I think) that I’ve been holding myself back with a lack of self-esteem, and I always saw it as a sort of genetic hereditary doohickey – so yeah, it WAS something that was wrong with me! While I saw it like that, I always looked to other people to build it up for me (mistake 1) and dodgy people at that (mistake 2).
It’s weird seeing it as a choice. More work, like, but more control as well.
no, you are normal in your needs and your expectations of life, you are are normal in that you are occasionally insecure, like all normal people, and they are abnormal in that the bulk of them have a sociopathic sense of security, even when they are being antisocial and cruel and they are abnormal in that, they are assholes in general.
Can I have that 90 bucks that you gave your therapist, now?;)
Oh! I want to add words to Grace’s great idea: “If I *make the healthy choice* to think that I am alright, then I am alright”.
I have a friend who is disappointing me lately and I’m not sure how to address it. It’s not the biggest deal or overly complicated so I feel a bit silly even writing about it, but this is the kind of thing that I would like to instinctively know how to handle better. Basically we live across the country from one another, different time zones, so it can be hard to reach one another. It’s harder for me to reach her b/c she shares a landline with roommates. She will email me asking when is a good day to call, but every single time for months now, she has failed to call on the day that she set up. If I call her, I can’t reach her. She does call eventually on another day, but due to the time difference I often need to alter my plans a bit to be available to talk to her, so when she doesn’t call when she says she will, it is irritating. I wasn’t so bothered the first few times, but now every time she emails me about picking a day it’s getting on my nerves b/c she never follows through. I’ve tried just telling her to call whenever it works for her (that way I’m not waiting around or annoyed when she doesn’t call)….I also tried emailing one time saying “I didn’t hear from you on X day, everything alright?” (hint hint) She told me that such and such came up and that she would call on X day….and then did not. Ahhh! She’s a good friend and she never used to be this unreliable. I think she’s sincere when she emails about wanting to talk and planning to call…..but then again she also never acknowledges or says anything about not calling when she said she would. I guess I’m wondering if by just letting it go I’m encouraging this behaviour….and I’m not sure how to address it directly without it seeming harsh.
a-
she may have been a good friend, but she’s treating you like an option. sorry, i know this must hurt.
suggestions:
1- do not ever change your plans to accommodate her call. if she calls at a time not previously agreed upon, do not answer. you’re busy, you have a life, you are not at her beck and … call.
2- the next time the two of you make plans to talk, say/write, “i’m really looking forward to catching up with you, i miss you. i gotta tell you, though, i’m getting frustrated with the number of times we’ve planned this, only to end up not talking because “something else came up”. i’ll reserve the time for this conversation, but i would ask you to only make this plan with me if you really want to talk. seriously, i value our friendship, but neither of us is obligated, and if the plans are just going to fall through again i’d just as soon not make them.”
realize that standing up for yourself this will likely push her off the fence one way or another. she may opt out. but honestly? while that would be painful? she’s not being a friend to you now, and you shouldn’t tolerate this treatment from ANYone. were the roles reversed, would she tolerate it from you? you can already see the small hole that has already formed at the bottom of your existence, that hole out of which your self-respect is flowing because of her treatment. close that hole. no one is worth that hole.
3- after that, if she makes the plan and calls, great. but if she doesn’t call…. sorry, honey, she’s showing you who she has become. don’t bother chasing after her.
A,
Be honest with her the same way you’re being honest with us here in BR. Just tell her how you feel without sounding defensive and see where it goes from there. I know exactly how you feel because I’ve been in your shoes. The one thing though is that some people let their lives lead them instead of the oppossite. We all have will power to do as we please, but some manage problems and time better than others. Just take a breather, tell her how you feel and play it by ear. If after that things still don’t feel right, go with your gut…it hardly ever fails. And then just chalk it up to yet another lesson learned. Hope this helps. =)
a,
I would say she is just not that into you and you do not owe her anything. I am thinking the same thing – would I be too harsh not to keep in touch when my friend never calls when she says she will? Looks like *your friend* is being harsh towards *you*, not the other way around. I know, it is difficult, and I am contemplating the same thing, either not responding any more or just telling her our friendship (or lack of) is not working.
I would just tell her that trying to schedule a phone date hasn’t been working out so just call me whenever and hopefully we’ll connect.
Thanks, everyone for the advice. I think I’ll take a few steps to begin with: 1) as suggested, not put myself out when she says she will call and go about my day as though she will not (b/c there is a good chance she will not; 2) not bother suggesting any days when she wants to pick a day to chat, and just stick with suggesting that she call when it works for her; 3) consider not being available if she promises to call one day and doesn’t call until a few days later. Maybe I’ve been too available–she knows if she doesn’t call on the scheduled day, I will still try to make time when she calls on a later day. Again, I feel silly even writing this–too much effort for something that should be simple, really. If she were a male friend I think I would feel a lot more comfortable just calling her on it directly, but my experience has been that it’s a lot harder to do so/doesn’t always go so well in female friendships.
Hey,
Honestly, if she keeps asking for what day is good to reschedule, just say “Look, we have scheduled this several times, and you have never followed through, so I don’t understand why you keep asking me, only to not do it. It makes no sense, right?No offense, but I am feeling a bit taken for granted. I have told you just to try and if I am home I am home. I tried to be respectful but you are not following through so I just don’t have the time to keep ‘rescheduling’ this. If you need to get in touch, just do the best that you can. Thanks and hope that I can help you out if we get this call organized!”
This has been my life for the past year. He will only see me if he doesn’t have a better offer. Lately, he’s been breaking dates because a better offer came along in the interim. Better than me includes seeing one of his other girlfriends, going to a singles dance, going on a blind date, going on a date…..anything. It’s up to me to make the choice whether or not to put up with it. I am free to dump him at any time. But so far I haven’t. The other men haven’t stacked up. What do you do when this is the best you have?
Betty, you are asking what do you do when this is the best you have… you have nothing. Let him go and you will be free to have everything! (:
@Betty! @Betty! Please – WAKE UP!
‘What do you do when this is the best you have?’
Easy.
1) Read BR – back issues especially! – and realise that instead of him being ‘the best you have’, he can in fact be identified by his plumage and mating habits as the Greater Spotted Assclown.
2) You stop the madness, flush him, and go No Contact with him, preferably for the rest of your life.
3) You be single – for a while at least – and work instead on building up your self-esteem and having a happy and fulfilled life with friends, relatives, dogs, cats, work buddies, lunches, walks, movies. Do fun stuff. Get your life back and start being kind to you again.
4) You will find to your great surprise that your life is suddenly largely stress-free, and that things look quite different. Could this be – happiness?
I got out of my first assclown relationship when I was finally able to imagine a future without him. Try this – it worked for me.
betty-
how can other men not stack up to a person who treats you like absolute crap? how did this guy, with this behavior, end up on any kind of pedestal? is the pedestal made of crap?
please, take brown _eyes’ and ethelreda’s advice – you really have nothing in this guy. you shouldn’t be tolerating this, much less from a guy who breaks plans with you to see (suppresses scream) other. women? no!
read BR. believe in yourself. and him? to the curb!
Easy.
FLUSH!!
Betty,
He is not the best you have, he is the worst. Get real and ask yourself: what is he giving you? My guess would be: he´s giving you low self esteem. He´s giving you stress. He´s giving you hours of fretting and obsessing. He´s probably or soon giving you health problems because of all the stress (and perhaps even a bad complexion? Hair falling out? Weight problems?)
And worst of all, he´s in the way of any nice, caring guy who would be happy to spend time with you if you just valued yourself and started to behave accordingly (but this takes time, don´t worry if you´ll be single for a while).
If that’s the best you have, I can’t imagine what’s the worst!!! Girl…move on from that! You’re only hurting yourselfin the process. One thing I realized after my last failed relationship when he did the EXACT same thing you’re saying and the one previous to that as well is that “I’d rather be miserable and alone than miserable with somebody”. You can do sooo much better and I highly doubt that is the best you’ev had! I don’t know you personally, but I can tell that self esteem is an issue for you and if you try to work on that, things will start to get a lot clearer (trust me…I’ve been there). As for men, yes I have had crappy relationships, but I am also friends to a ton of guys (usually those end up being my best friends) and seeing how they are with their girlfriend’s or wives, gives me hope to eventually meet a good man, way better than those I’ve already had. Just tell yourself, there’s always better out there, you just have to give YOURSELF a chance, not him! =)
Betty,
You seem to not have had a lot of experience with men, perhaps you are young still, this guy sounds pretty bad, yet he keeps you hooked. Does he treat you like someone from your past, mom, dad, sibling, cousin? You appear to be attracted to be being treated badly, until you can work on that, you may remain hooked. Listen to all the great advice from the others. Counseling sounds good about now too. Good luck!
I kicked my AC out of my house in January after catching him cheating on me. I had put him on a pedestal and treated him like a king. He is still wailing about his clothes being shoved in garbage bags (I laugh each time he raises this). He just couldn’t believe that I, who worshipped the ground he walked on could actually kick him out. He’s been apologising only to disappoint me again and I officially ended our relationship last Monday, blacklisted his number so he can’t call (the AC couldn’t even respect my request for NC, which I myself struggled with for a while as I would tell him how pissed off I am with him whenever I thought about what he’s done, but im getting stronger by the day). He turns around and sends me bible verses via email as he’s now apparently born again, which I applaud him for if he is sincere about it and not doing it to manipulate me again. I believe he was very comfortable and confident in disappointing me and when I kicked him out he was shocked out of his witts as he never thought I could do that. There is no way ever that I would allow anyone to feel it’s ok to disappoint me no matter how much I love them and it hurts to break up with him, my self-esteem is quite intact. He thought my self-esteem was low just because I loved him. I realised that his apologies weren’t sincere, he was just trying to get me to accept that the relationship will happen on his terms i.e. if we work things out it will be on his terms or if it ends he will make that decision and I refused to allow this to happen, “I didn’t want things to end like this between us” How the hell did you want them to end, by you being the one to end them? Hell to the NO!!! I ain’t giving NOBODY power they don’t deserve.
My AC’s very good at his job and he thought because of this he can control me, I refuse to be controlled and I refuse to let anyone feel that it’s ok to disappoint me. He had the guts to tell me that he will stay with the girl I caught him cheating with because she attempted to commit suicide when he tried to break up with her before. Guess what happened, she dumped him 3 days after I kicked him out to save her main relationship (she was playing my AC, she’s pregnant with her other boyfriend’s child and they are apparently very happy, they got engaged), so he’s sitting with a huge egg on his face!!!! He’s a huge schmuck and he can go…
Thembi,
Toooooooooooo Much drama!!!!!
Have you blocked this guy?
yes Allison I have blocked him and he’s now trying to contact me through his cousin with whom I became friends , so I’ve gone NC on her as well. The NC’s really working for me and it’s becoming easier by the day.
NC can be a beautiful thing. No fuss no muss just happily go about your day!
My husband’s favorite saying when I’m disappointed in him is, “Expect nothing, and you’ll never be disappointed.” For years, I would hear this pithy admonition and try to do away with my wants and expectations. Sublimation, repression, prayer…nothing ever quite worked. Now, over a decade in, I hear his favorite saying and wonder, “Aren’t there some basic things that a wife SHOULD expect from a partner?” Things that she should also rightly feel disappointed for not receiving? Sigh.
Absolutely right rosenfire! Desires and expectations are a validation of our inherent nature which is to LIVE! No expectations means denial of Life and the desire to live. Don’t let anyone fool you with this theory that if you don’t have expectations you will be happy. Crapshit. We are born, we have desires. Everything we learnt from babyhood came from that desire or expectation or whatever we choose to call it. It is our most basic natural instinct: to WANT to LIVE!! Have expectations, draw boundaries, and live consciously to respect and keep those expectations sacrosanct. If no one walks with you, then walk alone. But as you can see here, there are many already walking WITH you, even though we may not all be physically next to you. You are on the right path, and bless you!!
“Expect nothing, and you’ll never be disappointed.”
I said exactly this to myself (!!WTF) a thousand times when I was “with” the ex EUM. He disappointed me so many times and I figured that if if ‘got real’ with ‘the situation’ by expecting nothing from him then I could avoid the distress of the constant disappointment. Sheesh. (I now think that was a pattern of thinking I had learned from childhood). It doesn’t work (and it shouldn’t work). The only way to avoid unremitting disappointment in these people is to flush them out of your life (I didn’t want to do that as I was desperately clinging to my rejection avoidance. Pah. I was feeling rejected by him every day of my life anyway! EUMs are disappointment personified!
Mine even tried to manipulate me into believing that ‘disappointment’ was a necessary and good emotion to experience and learn to deal with in life – by accepting his crap treatment I could also become a better person! Woohoo! What a great life-enhancing offer – how could I resist!
Ahaha, what an ass! The things that these guys come up with….
I did a variation of this too, thinking to myself “it’s not like I even expect that much!” And now….wait a minute, why can’t I have expectations of the person who I’m with?
Another flawed thought process I had, right in the beginning, when I was obviously picking up on the fact that this guy was a user (yes, I had picked up on it, since I had made a pro/con list which included “may be a user” on it!). I thought that this may give me an opportunity to become a more generous person, thinking of how I had been in a relationship with someone who was more thoughtful and generous than I was and that would be a good way in which to better myself. Why I thought it would be a good idea to ‘work on this’ with someone who was only interested in taking all he could and giving nothing? Not so sure.
ewww, that is creepy and twisted; so glad he is an ex:)
You’d be surprised at how often that “creepy and twisted” mentality is used on women in religious circles…with our being told that our husbands are the chisel that God uses to hammer us into diamonds. Yep.
Yes, just look at this: http://www.southheightsbaptist.com/mp3/CliffPalmer/7BasicNeeds_Husband.pdf
Ummm…I had to stop reading. My heart started racing, my skin got hot, my stomach got queasy…I can’t hardly type this. I’ve heard so many of those statements my entire life, believed them, lived them, hated myself for not embracing them. Crying now…I’ve never seen them actually WRITTEN DOWN like that…seems so clearly diabolical when read like that…God, help me.
Ain’t that the truth. I’ve always believed that men were designed to be the head of the household, but I heard a wise woman say that she thinks of her husband as the head but she is the neck, and the head can go nowhere without the neck guiding it LOL. I loved it! All of the truly godly men that I’ve ever known are loving and supportive partners who are truly looking out for the best interests of their spouses, not male chauvinists like some are told to be. But even with that said, I’ve never believed that one of us had more influence over the other in the relationship, neither one of us will ever hold a chisel. We’re supposed to compliment one another and help strengthen the other partner. I think women who actually read and interpret the bible for themselves will be able to rise above and know what God truly wants for them.
Natalie: Thank you so much for this post.
When your own family doesn’t value you or treat you well it is so hard to have self-esteem or to like yourself.
And that pattern of trying trying trying to get them to love you sets you up to repeat the same pattern of trying to win acceptance and love from unavailable/uncaring men.
Thank you for this supportive post, and for pointing out that poor treatment by family, or friends, or men, is equally unacceptable.
Natalie, I would love to have all your posts collected in a book, I print out many to keep but it would be wonderful if you would bind and publish them. They have really gotten me through some dark days and many of them I read over and over. Thank you.
I like what you said about the fact that when you come from a family that doesn’t treat you well, it’s hard to assert yourself with others and expect them to behave respectfully and kindly to you.
I have a great relationship with my family now, but when I was a child the thing that created the most confusion and pain was being the recipient of contempt, disdain, withdrawal of affection and attention, verbal and emotional abuse, and then being told ” but we love you and only want the best for you”.
It’s no wonder I’ve spent most of my adult life chasing after men who treated me the same way. I was told this was acceptable from someone who “loved” me, that I had no right to think otherwise.
Hmm, that really gave me food for thought – after giving my never delivering man the heaveho for about the 7th time (I always know he will take me back if I withdraw my very reasonable complaint…) I am yet again starting to want him back… I guess the thing is that I meet him after breaking up with my controlling and critical or very flattering ex-husband and I really needed validation… And it was quite obivous from the start that I not only needed validation but would put up with quite a bit. The thing is that his values were so different from mine that there was no way I should have kept seeing him but I felt like I needed his flattering attention so instead of keeping my self respect I chose to change my expectations or to believe that over time I could change him. The horrible thing is that I am not sure that he would have been interested in me at all if I wasn’t attractive – I think if he knew my values and that I would have stuck to them he would have departed after about 3-4 months of an ego boost for him. I just focusing on what I liked about him so leaving the situation didn’t seem like an option – plus I made up my mind very early on that he was a nice guy and didn’t want to reassess that opinion even when it started to become obivous that that was only on the surface. The thing is the disappointments got to my self esteem – and I have come to realise that I can be attracted to and even often enjoy the company of men who are evasive, don’t disclose other women, don’t commit and play games – but the emotional pain of it is terrible. In the future I am planning on sticking to my values and to walk away when I can’t trust a man. Or let him walk away when he finds out that I won’t accept his behaviour – I’d rather the initial rejection and missing them to be made to feel ‘less than’.
I came to this realisation recently too Lumos. The things that trigger desire and attraction are the same things that bring ambiguity, disappointment and pain. So you have to learn to be attracted by positive qualities and avoid the usual patterns. It is a huge change in thinking and behaving but I guess recognising it is a great step forward.
My sister’s convoluted reason for treating me badly is, “you have always been there for me, so you always have to be there for me.” My parents adopted her as an infant and so she was my sister when I was born (she’s one year older than I am). But, ever since we were teenagers, she has been looking for her birth family through her bf and friends. She was always gone, spending her time and money on her friends, her boyfriend and his family. She would do anything for them and then expect me to make it up to her when they took advantage of her. I was so naive; I just decided that if I supported and loved her unconditionally, she would wake up one day with respect for me. I wasn’t adopted, so I can’t understand the deep feeling of abandonment she felt. There was no way I could make it up to her. I’m not the one who left. But, I was very young and took it all personally.
She found her birth family about 15 years ago and spends most of her energy on them. Both of my parents have passed away at this point. She wants me to join her birth family, and cater to them the way she does, but I am done with the games. We love each other and will always be sisters, but I have been working really hard on setting up boundaries. My time and money is better spent on people who don’t expect me to be their doormat.
I know that I keep repeating this pattern from my family by dating EUMs. I have a thing for men who “I can prove myself!!” to… thanks for the post.
Your last paragraph couldn’t be more right Nat sometimes the greatest disappointment comes from ourselves. I know for myself there have been times when I’ve been my own worst enemy, the heart saying one thing my mind another. I found when I listen to my heart it doesn’t always have my best interest at heart but that nagging little voice in the back of my mind always does.
hah! great post especially since I’ve been through that with a really really flakey friend, I’ve known him since college and he always kept contact even though we didn’t really hang out too much until I started dating a friend of his. Well that relationship ended so understandably its awkward.
So my friend always made plans or saying this and that and always end up not being able to make it and have some long half ass excuse or doesn’t even bother telling me he couldn’t make it. Yet he would still pop up and try to act like his interested in my life… I don’t mind friends drifting apart but I hate it when they just pop up in your life and act like they could be chummy chummy after flaking on you so many times.
I would find out he would have no problem going to other events with more “desirable” friends or often people who had connections. So I always thought it was bull***. It really irritated me when he kept bugging me to have dinner because he felt so bad for ditching me, he kept bugging till I said yes and guess what … when the day came he never even had the audacity to say he couldn’t make it. Luckily at that point I didn’t care anymore and had fun that night with other friends , the next day he sent me a long text message with some half ass excuse and I never bothered replying.
He got hold of a friend of mines because he wanted to apologize. He still tries to make contact either through random texts or on aim. I haven’t heard from him in months so I thought he forgot about me then bam all of a sudden his back trying to get all chummy…….
I don’t understand why people act that way, I wouldn’t be hurt if someone declines to go to an event with me because at least they were honest I just hate the dilly dallying around. Besides I realized it was a waste of time to be hung up on those situations and its best to brush them off or flush them XP
There are some excellent points here. One that spoke to me: “If someone believes that you’re so enamoured with them that you won’t leave, create conflict or consequences, or at least tell them to jog on (and mean it) when they try to push the boundaries, not only will they relax, but they just won’t value you enough to genuinely fear the loss of you.”
—————-
Now that I think of it, this has happened with several guys. I always thought it was a sign of a healthy relationship to relax in to it, be available, act like I was “with” them and there for them. But I’ve been guilty of assuming too much/believing too much too soon, thinking they are “it” (pedestal). I am so there for them that if they have an ass side it is sure to emerge once they see this. I now totally agree – anyone should fear the loss of the other if they behave badly, e.g., not take for granted, and they should not have the luxury of feeling that you’re so there from them until they show OVER TIME that they’ve earned that level of trust and commitment.
That leads right into the second point that really spoke to me: “All that glitters isn’t gold and when you take them off their pedestal, you’ll see that due to their surface action, they have very little, if any, genuinely intimate, healthy substantial relationships.” Bingo, with my last guy. He had glitter all over a disingenuous package. I am so grateful for all of the insights you post here, NML. I learn a lot, including things I need to work on so one day – even if when I’m 80 LOL – I get it right.
or have missed the memo that informed you of what you’ve done to piss them off – LOL this is sooo funny but TRUE. Ive just experienced similar from a so called friend and recognise all the behaviours. theyre not worth investing in as friends is a great explanation. Thanks Natalie
You know why your blog is such a hit Nat? You validate everything that we felt. I have spoken to family, friends about these issues — and kept hearing indirectly — ‘ put up with it, these are not big issues, I am so glad to know it is happening to you, oh you poor thing but surely these can’t be reasons for wanting a divorce’. You validate it. I think you do realise what an enormously important service you are doing for us. You articulate it so well, that right now I have tears in my eyes. Thank you. Much as I learnt through baby steps on how to deal with my pain before I came to your website, discovering your website was and is a fulfilling experience. God bless you, and Keep Going!!
@Urfab, thanks for your comment…I’ve been told I have no scriptural reasons for divorce…from my mother…which is hard for me to take…it’s a different version of the same “expect nothing…” theory. She told me that the way I’ve been treated and the fundamental differences b/n me and him are reason enough to never *marry* a man, but not reason enough to divorce him once you’ve already committed to him, had children, etc. She didn’t say this, but it was like she said, “You were worth more when you were single. Now, you just have to live this way forever, no matter how much it hurts.” Thank you again for your comment; your words (and the ones you wrote here to Nat) meant a lot to me.
BC, Don’t say anything to him – except *ADIOS* then flush! Life’s challenging enough without dickwads messing up the scenery…
My unavailable man I was involved with, a relationship which lasted quite a few years, left the area over a year ago. I told him not to contact me any more he left without saying goodbye. This was after many lies he told me again and again of wanting to be with me because of his deep love etc, he was so believable. He let me down always of course. I was amazed when he contacted me a couple of months ago with the same lies. How much he missed me and how unhappy he was. He called me a few times from a payphone and has not called since. It really upset me to hear all the lies again because I do/did have deep feelings for this man. I have now changed both my phone numbers and feel so much better for it. I know he is too much of a coward to write to me as that would be evidence he has contacted me. I could not understand how someone could behave like this unless mentally ill of course!! I have now met another man who seems decent and is a good friend, early days, taking it slowly. I feel so much better in my self.
” – Claiming that the reason why they treat you as they do is because, for instance, you’re the ‘strong’ one in the family or don’t need as much as the others, or some other weird reason to justify why they treat you differently.”
I just read the above paragraph and had a light bulb moment: that is SO disrespectful for a person to think that he/she can treat another person like a mule. “Oh, you’re strong… you can take/grapple with/handle it.” How disrespectful. I wonder how often the slave masters said that to their slaves. 😐
Yet another reason to have strong boundaries & sense of positive self-esteem. Overall great post.
I had someone once say to me “but no matter what I do I would not be able to hurt you”. So, you’ve given yourself permission to treat me however you like then? Very messed up.
Nat…once again you are a genius! I was just going through a little crisis of my own. It turns out that my college roommate is getting married this summer and I can honestly say she hasn’t been the best friend to have. Throughout college she always put her boyfriends first, she used to have me go quiet if she was talking to one of them on the phone because he wanted all her attention, she even got pissed at me once because one of her boyfriend’s at the time used to talk and joke around with me more than with her (I understand she might have been jealous, but I was never interested in him and made it clear from the start…we just had a lot in common and she never got any of the jokes we made). The last time we were really “friends” was when I was severely depressed and out of the hospital, she had the nerve to call me after a month of no contact and then told me to snap out of my depression. She then called my sister and said the same thing. Since then I feel as if I have forgiven her, but not really forgotten what she has done and how she has not been there for me. Well, she expects me to go to her wedding and I have class on that day. Mind you I’m starting my Masters program and I am paying a ton of tuition money for this. My mom forbade me to go to her wedding because she knows the whole story and was devastated at the way people were treating me when I was sick, I understand her. And in all honesty, I don’t even want to go either. She was here in New Year’s eve the same year I was sick and didn’t even apologize for what she did and said or called, but posted all her pictures in FB. I have made up my mind not to go to her wedding and mingle with her friends who I have no interest or relationship with. Or even her family who I always felt super uncomfortable around with. For the first time, I want to focus on me and me alone. And this post has just reminded me that I really don’t have to stoop to anyone’s level. As long as I stick to my principles, and true to myself and love me…then all else will fall into place.
Thanks again Nat! =)
Karina
Good for you, sounds like you did a lot of soul searching before you made that final decision.
I had a “friend” who from the beginning needed to be the centre of the universe and would create drama out of every situation. I always supported her. She would turn on and off me when a new man/friend came into our circle. I did not learn. Took the untimely death of my sister before I finally got it. The “friend” sent me an email 4 months after my sister died to tell me that “I know that you and your family are having a hard time but I need my friends to be close”. This was then followed up by a heart to heart (her words) where she felt that my grieving had gone on too long. My sister had only pass three years at that time and had been in my life for 33yrs. I don’t need that friend so flush!.
Karina be well. It is sad to let go of someone that you loved, trusted and cared about. By hey time to do you.
Sophia,
I can’t imagine anyone being that cold hearted, but I shouldn’t be surprised. So sorry abotu your sister’s passing. I have a sister and she is my best friend, so losing her would be like losing half of me. We’re always together even though she’s married. Her husband even jokes about that and doesn’t mind at all. I’m glad she’s not in your life anymore as you really don’t need someone like that lurking around waiting to get attention when she demands so.
Time for us ladies to really focus on us!
Karina wise decision: you don’t want to be there, and, from a karmic perspective, would you want someone you treated badly to show up to your wedding out of obligation? You know, you need to just let that friendship go….if you feel like it, write her a nice card, wishing her happiness for her wedding and congratulate her, and tell her that you are sorry but you are not available. She will get mad, probably throw a fit, and then you can just say the truth; that you don’t feel that you are friends and that life is too short for either of you to waste each others time:) Go enjoy your Masters!
I agree. If you’re going to do something, do it with your whole heart and not out of insincere obligation. You’ll be happier for it in the end. But to be honest, it doesn’t matter why you don’t want to go. One of the joys of adulthood is not having to answer to other people in most situations. You could simply feel like staying home and washing your hair, it really doesn’t matter because it is your time and you can do with it what you wish. Time is valuable, and every second of it that goes wasted on something that you don’t want to do anyways will forever be lost.
But you obviously were a good friend to her if even after all is said and done, you were still willing to consider going. Good for you for putting yourself first, and good luck with your masters program!
Thank you ladies. I just added a similar comment to Nat’s recent post because I ended up seeing my “friend’s” emgagement pics up on FB…it really reaffirmed my position of not going and I am really looking forward to my Masters. Thanks again! =)
Hi Natalie
What a great post. I am chuckling as I write this because for the first time I have stepped back and watched the play (complete with popcorn). The film title I have given his performance is “when slick became sloppy”.
Having known the work colleauge for 5 years, very charming when interested in me and this would wane when a new light emerged then back to me to see if I would step up and put out. Instead I would backed away (I had been doing a lot of growth work prior to meeting him so knew I was being tested) as these behaviours unsettled me and left me wondering what I had done wrong. As a result I never got too close because of these behaviours. Instead I chose to keep it light.
A recent illness (him now on the mend) resulting in a whole clutch of women giving him attention. He could now pick, choose and refuse. From that new clutch comes his current GF.
He tried to start up that same olde game again with me, this time I was well prepared and have now withdrawn totally. At work I see that he is unsettled by my new behaviours so has resorted to the odd critical comment in the hope that he will find allies. There have been none. I am equally popular. Again I am choosing to keep it light and chuckle to myself as I skip away from the BS.
Note to self – buy more popcorn.
Astonished yet again by the brilliance of BR – wow.
“When they can keep disappointing, it’s because they’re being believed in and given another chance, when really they should be getting the heave ho or at the very least, an increase in boundary security.”
Too right. My relationshit with my AC was a 10+ year rollercoaster of future fake-disappoint/ future fake-disappoint/future fake-disappoint/future fake- disappoint future fake- disappoint/future fake- disappoint…. repeat to fade, with a bit of charm thrown in occasionally to those who played their cards right (until I finally saw the light and left after the ultimate future-fake/let-down of pulling out of our wedding at the 11th hour).
As one of my friends memorably said: “The trouble with x is that he has 64 personalities and I only like one of them!” In other words, more faces than the town clock tower (to misquote Fearless).
How do you know this stuff Natalie?! Just amazing x
mental note to self: googling xAC, who let me down over & over again, (but who was also once the love of my life & hence 1 mth now into strict NC), only to find out he’s happy with the new ‘love of his life without whom he would be lost’ (that would be the OW he was, unbeknownst to me, in a r.ship all along whilst in a r’ship w ME!) is not a good idea. Oh well. He’s her problem now & that at least is a relief! :((
I actually feel a bit angry right now :(, because he always mentioned that he’s so glad that I’m not like other girls;acting demanding and psycho, and telling me that he doesn’t want a bad girlfriend..So I thought that I’d rather keep my mouth shut because he might think that I was demanding if I expressed my concerns. However when I started speaking up and telling him that I wasn’t happy with the fact that he would go out of his way for his friends and not for me and that I wasn’t a priority after 3 and a half years, he became so rude and started telling me to shutup and that I should be more understanding. He would always ignore me whenever we had an argument and his reasoning behind it, was that the argument would be over sooner once I calmed down and then he’d carry on being normal as if nothing happened without having dealt with the issue. It used to piss me off so much whenever he did that. He always just said sorry and I love you, expecting things to be okay after that. He never used to consider me, he would always put others before me and I let him know all of this and all he had to say was ” oh please, you’re just f*cking bored with yourself and now you’re looking for things to go on about”…I’m actually shaking my head right now and thinking about how I’d like nothing more than to punch him the face right now…
I always told him that I was sick of being the understanding girlfriend and that I was tired of being taken for granted, but it went in the one ear and fell out of that same ear immediately. The only time he’d act all nice was when I cried and when I had enough…He would tell me that he doesn’t want me to not feel important and he never wants to see me cry like that again and that he was sorry, but after that he’d do it again and I that’s when realised that he’s never going to change and that he’s learnt absolutely nothing!! It was like he was so worried about what he’s friends would think of him if he didn’t spend time with them or do stuff for them. He actually told me that, he thinks that its super unhealthy to spend time with your girlfriend and neglect your friends, I wasn’t asking him to be with me only, there has to be a balance obviously, but my concern was that he treated them better than he treated me, if it wasn’t ok with them it wasn’t ok with him. I never felt comfortable asking him to do anything…
As many of the others here, I had this sort of relationship with my husband (ex now) of 37 years. I can’t believe that I put up with it for that long even after he divorced me for his long time girlfriend. Because we have children together I still see him and it has developed into dinner at my place a few nights a week. He asked me recently if I thought he was taking advantge of me. I said no because I now know that it all about you, however I do feel you take me for granted, and someday I won’t be here for you.
I thought I would always love the man but now am having serious second thoughts. We are both too old at this point to start over and have settled into a truce for companionship….not perfect but I no longer have expectations of more from him.
“Breaking it off with you to go back to the same person and then coming back to you when it goes tits up. Or just ditching you every time a better offer comes up.”
This is exactly what the AC did last summer – Aimee – I miss you, I love you, I effed up. I thank my lucky stars that I was aware enough & had enough self-esteem to say – “So, are you ready to settle for Aimee now? He said it’s not settling – AND I said oh I know that, but you don’t. This week you want me back, next week you’ll want K****, and the next you’ll you want M****. Just leave me alone”. YEAH – I DID IT!!
But now tring to deal with family members and taking care of my aging father…….
“Claiming that the reason why they treat you as they do is because, for instance, you’re the ‘strong’ one in the family or don’t need as much as the others, or some other weird reason to justify why they treat you differently.”
This is my brothers to a tee – since I sold my business four years ago, not married, no children, they think I can do EVERYTHING, I mean everything for my father who broke his hip in Dec and has 2 surgeries – third one in a few weeks. (His “care” has been since my mom died 4 yrs ago)
Natalie – how do I set boundaries to try and get my brothers to HELP without my father suffering the consequences if I just walk away or sit back and SEE if the “brothers” show up? I am exhausted!!! They only want to help when it involves money (I mean in their advantage – 1 brother is EU, there other a TOTAL A**CLOWN)
Aimee
I feel for you. When my mom had to go into a nursing home I had a nervous breakdown trying to organise it all. But my brothers and sister stepped up.
Are there any tasks you can delegate – such as taking him to the hospital for an appointment? Asking them to “help more” may be too woolly.
Can you approach their wives?
Are there any support groups for carers in your area? They can offer practical assistance.
If you or he belong to a church, squawk for help.
@ Grace
Thanks for the suggestions. My problem is the brothers say they help and then don’t. ie Asked one of them to research Life Alert 6 weeks ago – I called last week to see why this never got done and he starts screaming at me – they say yes when they really mean no. It stinks because I really do want to delegate and they make everything harder. I feel as if I am having a nervous breakdown, and I so angry and resentful because I just wanted to take one year off after selling my business and been off for 4 1/2 years. I would just LOVE to go to work like my brothers and not have to deal with it all – and to boot the AC (pain patient that I cared for) pulled all this crap during the last 4 –ughhhh long sighhhhhhhhhh
good lord. it gets worse here. so i check my emails to reaffirm my NC w xAC (I kept one of his where he spewed forth his venom ie how he felt after I exposed his multiple infidelities to the OW he was with whilst w me – xcept I was her OW as he’d been w her all along but I didnt know it! Plus the one where I made my final NC clear) only to find others in my account. Some documented my anger to him after him treating me like shit & others w me trying to ‘ play it cool’ after same. How did I ever let this xAC slip under my radar?? Well, one email was very telling. It documented me talking abt wanting to sell my home due to financial probs caused by ill health. It seems I was hoping xAC might be my next step in life to help me solve my own life probs. (bear in mind I didnt know abt the OW or a whole range of other dodgy stuff at tht point & he was the love of my life frm 17 yrs prior). Here I sit, in a FAR worse position than wen he first reappeared wondering how I could have been so damned stupid. Yeah yeah. He future faked alright. Plus drip fed abt his multiple dysfunctional issues. But still. What the hell was I thinking? I feel a mixture of sadness, grief, loss & anger all at the same time. And till now, I felt I was doing so well. Im devestated. Even though I know she got what amounts to a booby prize which will cause her no end of pain (at least I think unless he suddenly went BACK to rehab – highly doubtful), but still. All this could have been prevented if I’d been more wise. I feel like such a fool & worse, my life is in absolute tatters as a result. Hugs welcome. This is my first real deep down in my gut low point. But NC it shall stay b.cuz I need his shit like a hole in the effin head. He’s done more than enough damage already :(((
Hi Teachable,
First…giant hugs. Wow! I can’t tell who is the OW to the OW to the OW. Is all I can figure out is there are too many W’s and the scum bucket is treating everyone with disrespect and disappointing all the W’s. At least you’ve discovered BR and can opt out of this dude’s drama. I’m betting the other OW’s may discover BR soon.
Although I think I was only one OW (who knows with cheaters), I felt just like you when the blinders came off. I felt like a fool, wondering how I could have been so damned stupid and what the hell was I thinking. And then the feelings of sadness, anger, and loss washed over me too. I know it’s difficult to resist telling him all about himself and how many times he’s disappointed you (understatement). I got to the deep down in my gut low point too. Once I could maintain NC and resist the urge to tell him, yet once again, how he disappointed me, I had to deal with how I disappointed me. I don’t mean to add insult to injury and my comment may only apply to my situation, not yours so disregard if it doesn’t apply. Your comment applied to me: “But NC it shall stay b.cuz I need his shit like a hole in the effin head. He’s done more than enough damage already.” You are wise to this AC’s disguise now. Don’t worry about what she “got”. You actually know what she got, disappointment and pain. You have an opportunity for a healthy relationship based on honesty, respect, and love. Congratulations. (I’m writing to me too.) No more disappointing AC/MM/EUM’s. Ditch your computer (other than BR) and cell phone for a while.
More hugs….
p. former doormat
u said she used to be a good friend wen she lived closer. good friends are hard to find. if it was me I’d just politely refuse to make days when she is supposed to call. just tell her try you wen she can. if yr available great. if not, no skin off yr nose. ppl do have busy lives & i get the feeling she justs caught up in hers & doesnt intentionally mean offence. just an option. of course take what works & leave the rest 😉
sorry. tht last post was for A.
I know :). I am working on my boundaries, too, and I can tell you people *know* what they are doing or not (not keeping in touch). I used to make excuses for everyone, too…
Going through this right now. It’s not like we had a relationship, but still I was so good to this guy. I believe he purposely ignored my birthday. I called him on it and told him I knew that he was aware because he was on FB that day posting and he had to see it. He sort of shrugged his shoulders and said he just didn’t do it. Now, another girl on FB, he sends her a video of this guy doing all kinds of things relating to happy birthday. Also, he wanted me to sign up for something he was selling, so he went nc because I said no. Yesterday I got a text or two. I answered and so wished I hadn’t but I just wasn’t strong enough to ignore. He has treated me like crap the entire 8 months I’ve known him and I’m so ashamed that I allowed myself to be treated that way. But, he’s just the last of many that I’ve allowed. Wish I could get my self esteem to where I could just say no and walk away but that doesn’t seem possible. Oh, we were just fwb, but if I questioned it, he would say, why do you have to talk about it. Let’s just enjoy it and not talk. Also, didn’t kiss, snuggle or anything else that I wanted. It was all about him. Last time we were together, I felt like an unpaid hooker. I’m just tired and don’t know how to stop this cycle. I need help.
Lisa
Yes he did purposely ignore your birthday. (It’s so you wouldn’t get any ideas that you’re his girlfriend).
Yes he NC’d you because you didn’ t buy what he was selling.
Yes he treated you like crap.
Yes, you are being treated like an unpaid hooker.
Yes, it’s all about him.
You are a smart, observant girl.
You know how to stop this.
Lisa
I once overheard a conversation between two guys. One was telling the other about this girl he was sleeping with, he said “yeah, I guess she´s attractive enough but I hate it when she gets all sweet with me after having s*x, it´s so awkward. And when we go anywhere she tries to hold hands with me and I have to pretend I don´t notice. I just want to have some fun with her for a while, why does she have to get so romantic? It´s so boring…”
So yeah, guys KNOW EXACTLY what they are doing, even when they pretend they don´t. Please take care of you! Don´t put yourself in a position where you´ll be treated like that.
Lilia
Yep, I found myself on a male chatsite (don’t ask) where the men were talking about casual sex and how the woman will at some point send a text or email saying she can’t do it anymore. Casual sex supply cut off. They found it amusing. I detected no concern.
Lisa – He knows it’s temporary, he knows the woman will get fed up. When you decide you can’t do it anymore, just ignore him.
Don’t even waste your time on a text. And don’t misinterpret any subsequent blowing hot as a sign he really cares, he’d just be checking to see if he’s still got a hold on you.
Lisa,
Sorry to hear that you’re hurting. The guy is a jerk and he uses people, try not to take it personally–I guarantee you’re not the first person who he has treated poorly. As long as you keep in touch with him and are subjected to more of his crap you’re just going to feel worse. The only way to stop it is to just do it. Resolve not to contact him and not to respond to him when he tries to contact you. No more FWB, no more acting like you’re ‘friends’ when he clearly does not treat you as a friend or even with basic courtesy. He has shown you no empathy and is not contributing anything positive to your life. If you choose to stick up for yourself by cutting this guy out, you will start to build up your self esteem again.
Dear Lisa, I so feel for you, because I am in the same board as you!!! I broke my NC after 4 weeks and I am very ashamed to admit that:-( I blocked EU on my phone, but two days ago decided to unblock him, as I thought I was safe. I received text from AC, he was asking me to go to cinema with him, and I answered him!!! HOW STUPID OF ME…I was even polite and concerned about him and his second text was very casual, that he was just passing my area and decided to invite me…He probably did not have anything to do, so he decided to contact his FBG, if she is still there for him. AND I WAS!!! I wish I read Natalie;s brilliant post yesterday, so I would not answered to AC:-(
Lisa, we do not have any other option, only NC will help as and BR!!!
The cycle will stop if you aren’t in it. It sounds so simple when it’s said outright, but I know it isn’t because I’ve been there. I said the same thing for over three years, the drama continued and I kept saying I don’t know how to get this to stop. What I really meant was, I don’t know how to get him to change. I can see that now. When I finally let go it was because I finally stopped trying to change him and did what was in my power to do…let go. Two years out, solid NC for two whole years. I ran into him just two weeks ago. We had a very brief hello hello, but all the power I gave him in the past was GONE. It was no big deal. I just wished I would of jumped off the merry go round with him so much sooner. YOU can stop the cycle Lisa, just stop engaging. No ‘but this and but that’. Just stop. It’s hard but If I did it, so can you.
“The cycle will stop if you aren’t in it. It sounds so simple when it’s said outright, but I know it isn’t because I’ve been there. I said the same thing for over three years, the drama continued and I kept saying I don’t know how to get this to stop. What I really meant was, I don’t know how to get him to change. I can see that now. When I finally let go it was because I finally stopped trying to change him and did what was in my power to do…let go.”
Bingo! This is exactly how I felt when I was finally able to let go of a situation a few years back. One day I finally realized that things would never get better, in fact they were getting worse, so I felt like I had no other option but to leave. But to be honest, I don’t think that you can tell when you’ve truly begun to let go. I was so impatient and ready for all of the feelings to be gone, but thinking about it just makes it worse. For me, that fateful day kinda snuck up on me, as I was excited when one day I realized that I couldn’t remember the last time that I had thought about him. But now that I’m away from that I can actually look back on it now and appreciate the lessons that I learned from letting myself be a doormat, I learned that I didn’t like being treated like one.
But Lisa, the birthday thing happened to me to and boy did it hurt/piss me off like no other. But he only did it to me because he knew that he could get away with it with me, and I let him take the easy way out every time. I know you’re hurting right now, but one day all of the things that you’ve heard, read or thought about letting go are going to sink in and you will move on.
You deserve better. Don’t waste your energy and time on him.
CUT HIM OFF FOR GOOD.
Well, I haven’t posted since the beginning of the month. I was pretty sure I would never hear from this guy, but guess what? Sent me a text yesterday at 5:30. “I need a backrub.” That’s just his way of saying he wants sex. I know that this is the one day he has a few hours that he can do whatever he wants because his son is taken care of for a few hours. I texted back, “I’m not at home.” He texts, “where r u?” I lied and said I was at my nieces. His next text was, “well get home.” Now this after a month of ignoring me and acting like I didn’t exist. Also, not a how are you text, but just straight to the sex thing. So, I kept putting him off and he finally gave up. We’ve agreed to this Sunday, but I’m trying to think of something to text back to tell him and never see him again. Wish I had the nerve to just ignore him Sunday. I know when I text him that it’s not going to happen, he’s gonna get mean and say things to deliberately hurt me. I just have to be strong. I want this to be over and I want my self respect back. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks girls.
“- Claiming that the reason why they treat you as they do is because, for instance, you’re the ‘strong’ one in the family or don’t need as much as the others, or some other weird reason to justify why they treat you differently.”
Natalie, have you met my mother? What do you think about treating children differently because, for example “one needs more help than the other one”? I mean financial help, time spent with that child etc. I am really torn on this, because people do have different needs, but when “time spent” translates into “I will never have time for you again,” that gave me a pause. That’s like saying you don’t need as much love, right?
Help! AGAIN! Well this is exactly what is happening to me at this very moment! I am beside myself. So, I broke NC a couple weeks ago, with my ex EUM by answering an email that he had sent, telling me that he needed me in his life, he didnt know what that meant, that he was having a really hard time, hes realizing how f***ed up he is, but hes so sorry that he treated me so poorly through out our almost 3 year relationship. That he has realized that a healthy relationship is full of sacrifices, that I had taught him what it meant to make love to a woman, and that he realized that having other women around him while in a relationship, was unfair to me, and has since gotten rid of his “harem”. In a series of letters between us that followed over the last 2 weeks, he went on to explain that our relationship meant more to him than any other, that he still had very strong, deep feelings and that he really wanted me to find a way to be his friend, that right now it was just about a friendship, but that he does think about getting back together with me, and doesnt know what the future holds for us. I had figured aver the last couple weeks, that he was obviously single and working on himself, and so it was a bad time for him. I had a moment yesterday that I thought maybe I could be a friend to him. I needed to know for sure before though that he wasnt seeing anyone, as i didnt want to place myself in that situation. So i asked him point blank and anxiously awaited the answer. The text came back to me rather quickly. “I have been spending time with someone. yes. its been about a month now.” I lost it. cried. sobbed. totally. devestated. for the next five hours, he talked on the phone to me, circles, and contradicted himself. at the end of the conversation he said, “look, youve made me think that maybe its not fair to the woman im seeing to be in a realtionship with her, I need to think about that. but, at the end of the day, shes different, and totally understand our emotion connection and is fine with us being friends, so can you please be a part of my life?” my questions are this…am i being set up to be his fallback girl AGAIN? He went out of his way to contact me after i changed all my contact information. DID HE SERIOUSLY JUST CONTACT ME TO TELL ME THAT HE HAS SOMEONE NEW?….he says the relationship is very new and he doesnt know what will happen,…
Unbelievable. Really. This man is completely self-absorbed and has no regard at all for your feelings. I think you know that he can only bring pain. You have to stop putting yourself through this HSN. It sounds to me like he is getting kicks out of the power he has over you. Men like this will do anything to feed their egos and will never put your feelings first. They are incapable. This is who he is. I don’t know what else to say. He appears to be a complete shit. Nothing you can do about that other than leave him to it.
Yes! Yes HSN, your situation sounds to me like the perfect FBG. I can’t tell you how many times I heard the line “I’m so f***ed up but I need you in my life. Re-read everything Nat has written on playing the friend card. It’s a total disrespectful demotion to the gutter. Apparently males like this will do anything to maintain an adoring, fallback option (us) while engaging in a relationship with an unsuspecting and probably adoring new woman, the new gf. The exMM even resorted to a birthday card sent snail mail (last year) when he realized he was blocked via every way possible in cyber-space. Last year I was wondering the same thing: Did he seriously go out of his way to buy a birthday card, buy a stamp, and go to the post office? Yup he did. Subsequently, did he ever show up for a mutually co-piloted, healthy relationship based on honesty, trust, love and respect. NOPE. AC’s seem to have a knack for seeming to go out of their way to keep FBG’s on the hook by throwing little crumbs that we magic into a loaf. If you buy the friend card, you’ll be disappointed. Worse, since he’s attached now, you’ll be be actually buying the OW card. Oh, I’ll bet the new gf is getting a slightly different story regarding the “emotional connection”.
Bottom line: If you sign up for another go around, you are signing up to be the classic FBG, hoping for an upgrade someday and hoping to be the exception to the rule someday (leading to disappointment). Worse than that, you are signing up to be an OW (worse than disappointment). And if things could get worse than being a FBG and an OW, you would be signing up to be unavailable, an EUW (triple disappointment). It’s three strikes, he’s got to be out. He’s laid the terms out clearly. It’s up to you. I was faced with the same options. I finally had to opt out as none of the options he presented met my needs. 3 strikes, you’re out. In my case it was 130 strikes before he was finally out. It just gets sad when they keep striking out and then it’s time to ride the pine. So very sorry.
It’s baseball season in the US and I’m a giant baseball fan, thus I can’t resist the sports analogy. I know it’s lame but there must be a cross-cultural reason for three strikes and you are out. Since I never could hit, I was always grateful for three strikes. Otherwise, I still be standing at the plate trying to hit that darn stupid little ball.
Only reason I got to play was I could field that darn little ball, until I got smacked in the eye last year on a bad hop at second and ended up in the drs office for two days. At some point, there’s a point. It was time to hang up my cleats. It’s odd that when I realized it was time to hang up my cleats was precisely the same time I was realizing that I couldn’t be an OW. A few months later I discovered BR. I think I miss playing softball more than I miss him. Don’t miss the black eye though (bad hop at second, not him).
Hi Runnergirl 🙂
Its very interesting that you brought the three strikes. Reading BR, I started thinking about boundaries and how to enforce them, and at which point you opt out, and the same metaphor came to my mind.
I also raise sheep, and let me tell you, a sheep which has to run 3 times into a electric fence to get the point is a pretty dumb one to begin with. Or a stubborn one which will keep testing them over and over again. Also, the fence works both ways, keep the sheep in but the predators out. As far as I am concern, the coyote which dare crossing the fence is fair game for Mr Riffle . So to push the analogy as far as we can, the boundaries are there to keep the self-esteem in and the ACs and UEs out ;).
Hi Isabel, I read your comment this morning and couldn’t get the image out of my head of the poor sheep that runs into the electric fence three times. That about sums it up for me. I’m that dumb, stubborn sheep that just keeps running into the electric fence. Your sheep analogy finally struck home. I’m used to the sports analogies, the playing in traffic, and putting my hand back into the fire analogies. The poor, dumb, stubborn sheep running into the electric fence finally struck home. Also your suggestion that the fence works both ways worked. Keeping the sheep in and the predators out. I cannot get the poor, dumb sheep running into the electric fence out of my mind. Thank you so very much for that analogy. You raise sheep? You have a riffle? I grow flowers and peppers and have to fight off bunnies with blood meal.
HSN
I am watching this unfold with some curiosity.
At what point are you going to throw the towel in?
Do you watch boxing? Ever seen a fighter up against the ropes and found yourself yelling:
“Ref, that’s enough!”
You’re getting pummelled to death.
Leave the ring.
OMG!!! This is too much HSN, even my ex AC did not do that:-( I think it is time for you to get very angry and block him!!! I would said, for example: “you had your chance, and blow it, lets move on in different directions!” I know how hard for you, me and Lisa right now to start NC again, but it is only our option, thanks God, we have our lovely Natalie and girls here who can always support us and give us advice.
(((Hugs)))
“…that right now it was just about a friendship, but that he does think about getting back together with me, and doesnt know what the future holds for us.”
Another OMG! Totally agree with Little Star. HSN, please don’t listen to him. ACs can’t be your friends and NEVER learn their lessons. He just wants to have his options open. The only way he’ll understand things is by you being rude to him. Take me as an example: I know that if I even say “Hi” when I bump into that ex AC of mine, just to keep civil, he’ll interpret it as “she’s still keen”. He’s got no concept of the mess he’s put me through and never will. Protect you heart and next time he comes around, don’t engage. NC all the way!!
HSN (and all the rest of us)
This is extremely old fashioned, but here´s a little song to help us along:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3mC4485Ue0
(Ah and don´t bother seeing the ending of the film, apparently in the original play she ends up marrying the good guy, not going back to the neurotic old bachelor EUM.)
Lillia
Love it, so sweet – go girl. Shame it doesn’t end there.
Did she marry Freddy in the original? I always liked him.
no no no! its an ego trip and he is reserving you incase this girl sees who he really is, I can bet my life that it was the other girls who dumped him when they realised what he as upto, not him letting them go because he suddenly got a consciounce!!! They did not put up with that type so why should you! He has it in his head that you will be his beck aand call girl, but why should you. stop punishing yourself you are worth so much more. His behaviour is a reflection on the type of person he is, not a reflection on the person you are , unless of course you like this type of person, in which case, what you crying for. be strong and live by your values and how you want a relationsip to be, i bet its not like this if you really think about it. its easier for us to see through him as we are impartial, if your friend was being treated like this you too would see it and tell her to be strong and look for types that try to make her happy, not types that use you when they are not happy.
best regards
Dawn
Oh ladies!!!! I really need your help these days!!! ……first off, thank you for keeping it real. I really find that I need that right now. This is the only place that I can come to talk too about this. I have moved, and dont know anyone in my new area, I am not working because i have had to be put on meds that help me deal with my anxitey and depression, I have had to move my daughter and son( from a different abusive relationship) and I in with family, because I cant cope, and through all this, my other friends have moved on. I feel very isolated, and alone.
@Grace ..your comment hit me to the core. I am being pummeled to death. I really am. Its absolutley rediculous the amount of crap that I have put up with from this man.
And yet, I am now facing what I have been dreading for the last three years. He has someone new. Im terrified that he is about to become the man that i wanted in a new relationship with someone else. I fear that i have done what NML has written about and made him a better man for someone else to prosper from. I have been having anxiety attacks for the last two days, everytime a thought of them together pops into my head. Them, holding hands, sharing romantics dinners, spending the day together, and making love at the end of that day. I dont understand why I was not worth the effort that he is now giving her. A week ago, I was completly happy and at ease, and what I thought was getting over him. we had emailed, and he had told me that his life was going so well right now, that he had a lot of things to figure out, but that he was still thinking about me, and still cared deeply and loved me. I started to not even care about him. Then, the text came that he was “spending time with someone, and she was different, she understood that him and I had an emotional connection.” even just typing that out makes me anxious and sad. Then there were the five hours on the phone after that. I did nothing but cry and tell him how hurt I was, asked him why he couldnt give the same chance to me, someone who had loved him, stuck by him, and would have done anything in the world for him. I asked how could he get in another relationship so soon..just a month after us breaking up, and I asked him why he was putting another woman thru this when he was so “F**ked up and didnt know what he wanted” his answer was, “i hate being alone, What am i going to do? sit and watch tv all day, or spend time with someone i like?”
I am having a super hard time with all this, and in the last few days I have considered ending it all. I sometimes wonder if my children would be better off not seeing mommy paralyzed in life like this and spending my days crying in bed. I know that NC is what needs to be done and STUCK TOO. I guess im just really scared of the unknown. and scared thinking that I wont know whats happening with him and the new gf. EVEN THOUGH THATS TOTALLY MESSED UP. Its like the left part of my brain, and the right part of my brain, and my heart are in a battle! Right now, hearing from you ladies is whats making me feel less lonely and isolated
HSN,
Your second post has me worried–please do not consider harming yourself. This guy is not worth it. If he were a changed man, he wouldn’t be messing you around like this, all the while seeing another woman. Do you really think he’s treating her well, sending all these messages and having these long conversations with an ex (you), saying to someone else that he may want to be with her one day, etc.? HE HAS NOT CHANGED. YOU ARE NOT MISSING OUT. He’s going to inflict all the same lies and hurt on her. Have you spoken to anyone in a professional context? It may be time to do so if you have considered harming yourself. Remember that you’re not alone, you have lots of people here on BR rooting for you.
A,
Thank you for your concern. I do have a counsellor, but I find that sometimes talking about it all the time, really only makes it worse as it all starts going in circles. I have had counselors since I was about 16 to help with my depression and anxiety issues. I am 36 now, and until I met the AC 3 years ago, after a very hard split from a physically abusive husband, I was doing very well controlling my emotions. I think that the worst part of all this for me, is when I start to think about the ex-AC and the new girlfriend together. what are they doing?…where are they? how often do they see each other?…Does he say all the same things to her that he did to me? Thats what hurts. I feel like im on the sidelines, watching him enjoy a new chance. I know that NC is the only way out. im just really scared. as usual. So coming here to talk about things, and talking to all you ladies, is what keeps me strong. So thank you all very much!
HSN,
I know it’s difficult, but try to take the focus away from him and put it back on yourself. Even if you can only do it for a few minutes at a time to begin with (something physical can be good for this–yoga, pilates–either a class or just streaming a video from youtube)….anything that requires your focus, really. Plus you’ll be doing something good for yourself, which helps to re-build self esteem and physically makes you feel better. Why focus on him having the chance to try again when you can focus on healing YOU and looking forward to YOUR chances to try again with someone who isn’t an emotionally unavailable AC. He has not changed, but you can. Work on changing your thinking and making it about you: YOU do not want this man, he cannot give YOU what YOU want, YOU deserve better, YOU are not going to put up with his disrespectful, user, behaviour, YOU want honesty, trust, love and integrity in a man and a relationship and will not settle for less.
Re the children: indeed, they are better off not seeing you like this, so if it works for you to do NC for them, start there. They are better off in general with a mom focused on herself and on them and not getting blown to the emotional winds over a man.
We often think of the bad role models we are to our daughters when we let them see men yank our chains. But I had a long relationship with a man whose mother had been constantly preoccupied with the latest boyfriend who didn’t treat her well but that she was “so in love with” – he deserved so much better than that.
Nothing can give him back all those years when he needed a calm mom who made him a priority, and instead got a nervous wreck who was always making excuses for why she was sad, tired, angry, out, etc. HSN, if doing NC for your kids will lead you to doing it for yourself, then start there.
magnolia,
You are absolutley right. Thinking about NC that way really helps me. I also think that if anyone ever treated my daughter the way that I am being treated, I would be livid. So its important for me to show my kids that its not ok to be treated this way. Thanks for the wake up call Magnolia.
HSN,
It’s all BS. “…that right now it was just about a friendship, but that he does think about getting back together with me, and doesnt know what the future holds for us.” And you called him on this–he doesn’t want to be your friend b/c he’s single right now and working on himself, he is dating someone else. And he wants you around as an option while he is with another woman. If he so valued your past relationship and wanted to be with you in the future, then why is he with someone else? This guy has not changed. You had the courage to ask him if he’s dating someone else, now you need to summon up the courage to block this a** once again.
Where’s Judge Nat and her gavel? Open-and-shut case of unbridled assclownery! BANG!
“… he realized that having other women around him while in a relationship, was unfair to me, and has since gotten rid of his “harem”.”
Except that now he wants you to be in his new harem, while he dates this new woman? Oh hell noooo!
HSN, this guy is gum under your shoe. He’s nothing but pain to you at this point. Disengage, protect yourself, and do the necessary mourning. Stay close to BR, memorize all Nat’s relevant posts, shift the focus to you. You can do it.
He contacted you so he could have a safety net. Notice that he told you what you wanted to hear (you taught me.. not fair to you… more important to me than any other) and did NOT tell you he was seeing someone until you asked, point-blank, and AFTER he hooked you with the can’t-live-without-you shit.
That was all conscious, deliberate manipulation.
Then you cry on the phone to him, he knows you’re still completely invested and have hope, and he throws the “who knows what the future will bring” wild card.
It’s cruel, it’s creepy, it’s selfish, it’s deliberate, and it should be a prison-punishable offense.
ixnay,
You are right, it really is cruel, creepy, and selfish. I have a hard time focusing right now on the all the crappy things and how much better i will feel without him in my life. instead I seem to be fixated on past happy moments with him, good memories, and wondering if hes treating her the same way he treated me in the beginning. Its very difficult to me. BR, NML, and you ladies are keeping me strong. So thank you.
It’s so funny, sometimes I read these posts and I see myself as the victim in the situation. Well not really the victim, but you get my point…But this time I see myself as the perpetrator as I have actually been the person that Natalie is writing about, I too have been afraid to disappoint certain people but not others. And I can truly say, it is not about the value of the person, but what the other person finds value in. In my case, it wasn’t that the people weren’t valuable in their own right, I just wasn’t taught to value love that is freely given. When you’re not afraid to disappoint truly important and loyal people it’s sometimes because you have been taught that you have to prove yourself to receive love. At some point in my life I think I learned that people would only love me if I was a certain way. So with an ass-backwards way of thinking, I figured that I no longer had to put my best foot forward once I learned that someone was truly reliable. Eventually I burned myself out, as I found that the people who truly valued me would never allow me to jump through hoops for them. I ruined relationships with truly loving people and chased after unhealthy ones with some not-so loving people
Being taught that I was going to have to “chase” love, I was never taught what to do with it when I had it, I had to seek that information out for myself and it’s still a work in progress. I imagine that anyone who devalues those who love them may be suffering from something similar. Whatever the case may be, if someone does not appreciate the value that you bring to their lives then it is time to have enough love for yourself to bounce and surround yourself with people whose love you will never have to question.
That, in a nutshell, is why we choose EUMs and are EUW.
We go overboard not to disappoint the people we can’t win with. We disappoint the people we can’t lose with. We value the people who seem to be disappointed with us, and devalue the people who are happy with us just the way we are.
And those men we can’t give up, WE are the people they feel secure enough to disappoint.
I’ve been like ‘what did i do wrong?’ ‘what i could have done better?’,’why he could treat me like this?’ blah blah blah ,questioning to myself over and over. And now i know, IT WAS NOT ME.
It’s time to get my self-esteem back and be confidence again. I shouldn’t be changed into someone or treated bad by people who think it’s okay to keep dissapointing me.
your last paragraph reminds me of something that Maya Angelou said (and this is a paraphrase):
” When someone shows you who they are … believe them.”
FNM what a fabulous paraphrase. thanks for sharing 🙂 did make me laugh but oh so true, it certainly brings you back to reality and makes you think that what you beleived you saw/see in a person is just an illusion of how you hope the person would be. sometimes it takes a while for reality to set in, especially if you fancy the pants off them.
best regards
Dawn 🙂
quote “When you no longer believe everything you think, you step out of thought and see clearly that the thinker is not who you are.” Ekhart Tolle
A great quote by a great author and poet. But to make the quote even stronger remember what Oprah added on: Believe them the first time.
I couldn’t have read this sooner. Thank you!!!
dearest runnergirlno1. thanku so much. i am hanging onto my life here by the slightest of threads. i needed so much for some1 to care enough to reply to my predicament. i almost left BR because I thought u all must know each other & that no- one cared about me or mine (except for Cc who once relied & magnolia I think but who I dont think I had provided enough info for her to understand my sitch fully). i see now i was wrong. I am suffering major clinical depression due to a long term work related injury & problems w my adult son also. I have zero family support. im isolated as my injury prevents me from driving. I have a counsellor who has been visiting weekly at home now for 12 mths & am in the process of org inpatient treatment for the depression. i feel this is the most kind & responsible kind & loving thing i can do for myself. i hav no prior psychiatric history (except complex PTSD related to serious child abuse however Ive always managed that appropriately with counselling which iv had on & off for many years). xAC reappeared in my life for 1 weekend & forced himself on my sexually against my wishes the first night / weekend. he was in a r.ship w another woman at the time which i knew abt. i was furious afterward & ended up reporting him to the police. i took no further action due to lack of witnesses & deep down i loved him frm 20 yrs prior wen we were a cpl for 3 yrs. Id held a torch for him all those years & always hoped he’d return.
that was 2 yrs ago now. 6 mths later he returned claiming to be single & to have moved out of the mother of his childs home. he lived interstate so i had no way of checking but evidence suggested at the time this had happened & I believe this did happen. he then persued a r.ship w me. Except he by now had revealed an active sustance abuse problem so i said go to rehab for inpatient treatment first & then we can assess suitability for a r.ship. surprise surprise 18 mths later he still hadnt gone to rehab. meanwhile he made a few trips to see me in my state & we were sexual so in some ways it was already a r.ship of sorts (after tht 1st w.end there was NC at all until he reappeared claiming to now be single). I eventually discovered he had reconciled w the mother of his child & deliberately witheld this frm me as my position abt not being prepared to b an OW had already been made clear. I discovered multiple OW he was screwing around with whilst supposedly single & in a LD sitch w me also. It was all such a nightmare & he treated me so bad. he even tried to incite me to suicide knowing I have major depression hoping I might do it to keep his filthy dirty secretes about his rampant infidelities secret (he hoped I would take them to my grave). I quickly realised his game & exposed him anyway instead. All i know is Im now jobless (but have insurance keeping me going at least for now) & will have to rebuild my life from scratch. So far I have managed to hold onto my house – for which I am deeply grateful. I was homeless frm 3-21 yo (I was raised as a ward of the state & shuffled around before spending my teen years as pedophile fodder) so my fear in that regard is horriffic. I am now 42 yo, college educated, 21 years clean & sober after substance abuse issues marred my youth in an attempt to medicate the pain of severe child abuse & neglect. I also have a 20 year successful professional social work career behind me (which unfortunately is now in tatters)
I am also a published academic author & have acheived wonderful things in my life as an adult (all be it with a lot of help along the way to mitigate my lack of family support). In 21 years of recovery I have not had a single abusive r.ship other than w this xAC. All the other people I have dated have been respectful & kind but just not ‘the one’ for me. This means I DO have self esteem & I know my (all be it modest) worth. I have bought a house (not too far off being fully paid for – hopefully if my insurance payments continue) & I am now in my final year of a psych degree. I am telling you (& me more so) this because I am not a woman who is easily effed with – but on this one occassion, withthis one guy I WAS. I think I thought he was last chance saloon & that is just so much BS! My self esteem (& health) have taken an absolute hammering. But here’s the thing. I have survived FAR worse than anything xAC did to me & I will get through this. But I cannot get through it alone so thankyou SO much for yr kind words & hugs. I needed them badly & my prayers through them were answered.
PS Nat I tried to purchased mr unavailable & the fall back girl two nights ago but it wouldnt accept my credit card details. i will try again later this week. love to all x
Hi Teachable,
I’m so sorry for what you have been through in your past. I’m glad what I said could be of some help to you. You have done such an amazing job with 21 years of sobriety and an almost paid off house and a published author. It sounds like you know what you are doing (counseling and meds) and focusing on you while you recover from your injury. A new career can be reestablished.
NC is a matter of life. The exAC clearly is not adding to your life, of course it’s always easier to see that from the outside. And he sounds dangerous. Your comments about suicide and forcing sex (twice) are extremely serious. Lying to you about reconciling with the other woman and forcing you into the OW role must have been a huge disappointment but the other comments got my blood boiling. Hopefully your torch for this guy has been extinguished? No matter how great he seemed to be years ago, his present behavior is reprehensible if not illegal. Going NC for good and recovering from your injury is your only way out. This guy is no prize. Forcing sex on women, playing on a woman’s vulnerability, lying, and a drug problem to boot. He sounds like a candidate for prison.
It sounds like you are on the right track now though, grounded in reality, and have a lot going for you. Natalie’s book Mr U and the FBG will be very helpful. I highly recommend her new book as well “The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship”. These returning childhood sweethearts are a classic fantasy relationship. No matter who this guy was in the past, the reality is that in the present, he’s seriously dangerous. You’ll love Natalie’s books.
My best to you. Stay focused on you and finishing your degree (congratulations!), that’s what’s is important. Also good luck with your son. Young adult children can be trying (I’ve got one too). Giant hugs and sending you a ton of cyber strength.
PS. Stick close to BR and don’t leave!
oh my teachable-
following on what runnergirlno1 said –
we’re going to all conspire to keep you from leaving BR. no, we don’t know each other (more on this below).
its horrible that you have been through so much, but you’re clearly resilient and STRONG. and BRAVE. and, i bet, determined, although you don’t feel that way right now. still, you are.
about what you said up top about feeling like everyone on BR knows each other – that may be sort of true for those who have recently joined, but everyone here was once new. what we do is resonate with each other. we all get it. and we get you. and coming to a new community is always daunting, but a community it is, and YOUR community it certainly is. use us.
here, i’ll help. think you’re alone? you’re not at all, not in the very least. i know, let’s take a poll.
*****ALL BR**** – all who have experienced any of the following, SAY AYE. i’ll start:
– childhood abuse? aye
– depression? aye
– PTSD? …..ok, fine, i’ll admit it – aye. eeeesh gawd, that was hard to admit, i feel like i just busted sum’in. ow ow ow ow ow ow.
– history of unhealthy relationships with men? aye
– abusive relationships?
– sexual abuse? (mercifully, i skirted this one)
– sexual assault? only a little aye here
– financial problems? aye
– continuing problems with parents, siblings, children? oh, aye
– having to re-raise yourself because the people whose job it was to raise you either did a terrible job or abandoned you altogether? AYE
hang in there, teachable. you’re going through an extremely rough spot. just keep going. stay on your own side. and KICK anyone who is not helping you fight this fight out of your life. permanently. anyone who is not on your side is in your way. do not let anyone get in your way.
don’t leave BR. it will help keep you pointed in the right direction.
cc:
“anyone who is not on your side is in your way.”
Well said. That’s about the size of it! Men who who think it’s okay to continually disappoint you and let you down in favour of other “priorities” (aka other people/events that actually matter to them!) are def. not on your side.
I say “aye” to a number of the above.
Teachable, This guy is a nightmare you really need to wake up from. Get him the f*ck out of your life (oops, pardon the French). I don’t “know” anyone here (though I’ve been posting so long I feel as if I do – fantasy relationships!??!). Welcome to BR! Don’t worry about not getting personal replies from posters (this is a blog, not a discussion forum – as Nat quite rightly has to remind us of sometimes!) Just posting and knowing someone is reading is helpful. We are reading! We’re on your side!
ps runnergirl. u picked up exactly wot i feeling. an overwhelming urge to beak NC. to say one word to him (a derogatory one of couse). I didnt though. tht in itself is huge growth for me. thanku for picking up on tht. i really HAVE to maintain NC this time. Ive ended it exactly correctly & taken all my power back. my door is now FOREVER closed to him. Breaking NC will only cause me deep pain. Maintaining NC is close to life & death for me now. Him ignoring me will only push me bk tto the brink again. thanku so much for bolstering my resolve. it is strong anyway but this latest development was just the universe testing me. i past the point where the pain of staying the same exceeded my fear of change long ago. it is time now for focus to stay FIRMLY on me me & my upcoming exam xxx
ok sorry for thread hyjack everyone. yr all such brave women. i feel priviledged to to get to read yr many stories. xx
Teachable,
What a horrific story! I don’t know what the nature of your injury/disability is but I’d STRONGLY suggest that you go on MEGA LOCKDOWN. With me, domestic violence and abuse in my childhood had caused me issues, but I was totally unconscious of the link because I had thought that because it was behind me, that it wouldn’t have an impact on me any longer – I was wrong.
From your story, it’s obvious that you could do with boundaries – sex ban for a while, dating ban, psychology, and just taking care of YOU for a while. I had a sex ban for three months, followed by a dating ban for ~ 11 months , I had around 17 appointments with a psycologist where we dug up all the baggage and started looking at patterns, I started saying no to people, took myself off online dating and chat sites, shut down IM and Skype, and forced myself to go out every weekend. I thought that I would never see the end, and NC was excruciatingly painful. And even after that I had the odd slip up!
At the end of the day, you have to go in and rescue yourself. No-one else is better positioned to.
Ok but I do have to admit that I am having a problem with having previously been used and abused, led on, toyed with and maniupulated. Only to then just “move on.”
I mean is anyone else having a problem with just letting this thing go and watching the AC just dance off into the sunset on to his next victim while we are sitting here broken and hurting?!
I guess I am in my anger phase again because a part of me wants to get my dignity back somehow. I want to hurt him back! He doesn’t care that I am now NC with him in fact he is probably relieved he got off so easy. ON TO THE NEXT with no messes to clean up.
Something about all of us women here broken, and working so hard to fix ourselves, and them not having been affected at all is getting to me. I’m having a hard time processing this.
I do know how you feel, write him a letter, but don’t mail it, you’ll feel better.
I am having the exact same hard time. As you may have read on the previous page, I found out 3 days ago, that at the same time that my ex AC has told me how inportant i am to his life and how he still loves me, and needs me in his life, he forgot to mention, until i asked him point blank, that he has been seeing someone new for a month now. He told me that he panics when I leave his life (two months NC, until i broke it 2 weeks ago becuase he tracked me down and sent me an email) but yet I have this nagging feeling that going NC only gets him off the hook, with no messes to clean up. I understand that going NC is really about doing something good for ourselves, taking a stand. But I really want him to hurt too. and yet i feel slightly guilty for wanting that too. ..like the Karma Police are gonna come and get me.
I feel your pain Reality. I really do.
HSnoose
You need to think of it like ‘NC gets YOU off the hook”. It means that YOU will have no more messes to clean up and no new pain to deal with. Any attempt at more contact to exact some ‘revenge’ or gain some justice’ will juts bring you more pain and more mess – and he won’t clean it up or take away the new pain – you will have to do that. Again.
Just to add, HNS, NC is not about him in any way at all – even in taking a stand against him. It’s about taking a stand for yourself. It really is about giving it up, letting it go and focusing entirely on yourself. NC is the medicine that will help YOU recover from the effects of your own poor relationship choices, help you get some boundaries sorted out and improve your self esteem to ensure that you NEVER end up with these types f men in these types of relationships ever again. The only way through this and out of the other side is to make him history; to make him no longer count – in any way at all.
Wow Fearless
i love how you summed up the NC rule. it gave me a whole new perspective on it. you truly cracked it open for me– thank you thank you! i have been reading this site for a few months, but never really read the comments much… am going to start now. this was a great piece of advice! a real insight.
dls. Am glad I helped. Nat’s blogs and all the comments from some very smart women on here have helped me through some some very difficult days (and are still helping me – I am a hard nut to crack! I had no idea I was so entrenched in some very unhealthy beliefs and habits). I am forever grateful to Nat and the commentators here (people who are complete strangers to me and yet have been of way greater practical help and support than any one I do know!) Nat also offers a safe place to weep and wail and get mad! I think this is an important aspect of the site because no-one is saying any of this is easy, and having a safe place to talk it out/scream/cry/grow has helped me no end to keep going and avoid seeking faux comfort by returning to the source of my pain (the ex EUM).
Tired of assanova (I think it was) said on a comment earlier that struck with me: “we have to get in there and rescue ourselves”. When I finally understood that this was how serious it really was – about a year ago – (and all thanks to this site) I started to take my own rescue very seriously and so I am ‘in there’ rescuing me very day. Who else is going to do it?? Thanks to Nat and others here, I don’t feel so alone in my mission to rescue me.
Yes, this site has been such a savior for me! All Nat’s amazing insights and of course the insights of the commentors like yourself. I am so grateful to have stumbled upon it!
HSN–NC is for us, but also realize that any contact with him is giving him what he wants. He told you he wants you in his life, obviously he does want to keep you around as a FGG. Don’t give it to him.
Reality, Exactly! You expressed the thoughts that I think are a big part of what is keeping me stuck. I have more to say on this but I’m tired. I just wanted you to know how wholeheartedlyI understand your sentiment.
Hey Reality
I was going crazy like that a short while ago but 2 things saved me. One, help from buddhism – nothing is ever permanent, not happiness, not suffering. Feel what I’m feeling, completely, and then just let it go. Keep doing that for a while and the feelings do lift.
Second, knowing that if I kept NC I could neither be too nice and kick myself later for being too nice, nor too nasty, when I’d feel bad and want to fix it later. I could just focus on getting my life back.
It’s now 4 months NC and I don’t want him back in any way. I’m not indifferent yet, I think that takes time and memory loss, but I don’t actually care what he is up to.
Hope you find your way out
Good points made. By keeping any kind of contact the obsessing starts again. Indifference takes a long time particularly if the relationship was a long one. That is why I had to go NC again. After a long time NC I actually thought I could be friends. It was over a year and yes he was good for alot of my relationship but a dog at the end. (Went back to his bad behavior noted at the beginning of the relationship) Some people will ALWAYS be toxic for you. My mistake was thinking I was truly over him forever but with him I had way too much hurt. His declarations of us being “lifetime” friends don’t work anymore. I don’t want him in my life at any level and it took me a long time to absorb that fact since I am friends with almost all of my exes. Two things come to mind I learned from this blog “If he wasn’t a good bf at the end why would he be a good friend?” “Don’t give someone a chance to keep hurting you” One more thing I learned “Why give them a chance for more “mind fuckery” and games. NC gives you your self esteem and your power back.
I don’t want him in my life at any level and it took me a long time to absorb that fact since I am friends with almost all of my exes.
Can I just ask WHY people collect exes-as-friends? Why do people do it?
I saw another ex yesterday in the shopping centre – surprise surprise, they’re STILL single after 3 and a half years! Gee whiz, I wonder why! I waved, said hello and made my escape. This particular one was a clown that disappeared for an ENTIRE MONTH only to resurface with a text after that. An entire month! Crazy!
I mean is anyone else having a problem with just letting this thing go and watching the AC just dance off into the sunset on to his next victim while we are sitting here broken and hurting?!
I think the anger does teach us a lesson. They dance off because they were never really in it in the first place. You can’t feel a loss if you never put anything in it in the first place.
And yes, for 3-4 months, I WAS ENRAGED LIKE HELL in the mornings I would snap wide awake and be in the most blinding fury about what he did, what he didn’t do and how he got off scot free. I was SO MAD. But there was really nothing I could do, because had I displayed my angry face, I would have been labelled a needy psycho ex blah blah. Which would have just lumped insult on top of everything!
“part of me wants to get my dignity back….I want to hurt him back!”
Completely understand this as it was how i felt, but I’m finding the best revenge (and re-installer of dignity! and oh, how I cringe at some of the things I did/put up with) is success. Success to me means self confidence, a full, happy and engaging life, work I love, etc. As I move towards that, I care less about whether the ex is dating Angelina Jolie and running the Bank of England. I would even go so far as to say that, as painful as that relationship ending was, I’m now very grateful to my ex – as he (unintentionally on his part) taught me so much about myself. My life is better as a result and soooo much better than it would have been had he still been in it.
Eloise,
I so agree!
It was such a positive, as it made me recognize my patterns of getting involved in useless relationships. It’s no longer about him, but how I can grow and become relationship healthy, and this only came with the recognition of participation in these ridiculous relationships.
You only win if you let go, putting additional energy into a worthless situation is draining and self defeating
Eloise, good for you! I think that, when all is said and done, you are right: that really the epiphany relationship is a gift because it teaches us so much, and yes my life is so much better after the jolt I got two years ago.
The crazy-making men help us get so much together: boundaries, acting on our feelings not just sitting with them ( in a respectful manner), asserting ourselves in a reasonable manner, and mostly just figuring out that ultimately, we need to look out for number one, first.
So……just broke up last night with my five-month old relationship; this one, this breakup, was so polar opposite from the bad one two years ago that, even though I feel sad, I realize how much I have progressed in both picking better guys and also, just asserting myself early on.
We had some tension the last two weeks, and I have been on the fence for months now, not feeling “in” love, but caring tremendously about him, and feeling so crappy that I was not falling in love and it turns out that we are just either incompatible or else, our timing was just way off. I thought that he was not respecting a boundary that I had set up, but it turns out that he had, but I had not checked my phone records enough ( he had called when he said that he would, but my battery had died and I did not see the call, and so it turns out that there was a message from him) With that said, though, I had been right: my tingling “spidy senses” were correct, there was problems and so we talked about them. What he said, was that he felt like he spent the first four months putting in tons of effort and just felt like something was off, in my response just like I was not quite there 100% ( which, was true, although I tried to be) and he just, he said, in the last month started to disconnect although he did not realize it as much until this last week. When he had tried to call me, he had hoped to initiate “the talk” too. We talked for 2 hours, we both got pretty teary and we both agreed that we wish that it was happening but for whatever reason-his commitment issues, mine, or probably, both, and also, our age and our both needing to analyze things too much-something was not fixable. We both feel like we got “stuck”. I think he kind of wants to let it air out and see if later, he can work through he is own stuff and get things to work, but I think that I am clear that him turning off, right when I had just started to try harder, shows me that maybe he is a bit more attracted when it is not reciprocated and I can’t deal with that ( and I told him that, which felt great!)
What our talk revealed was that I am able to shut the door on something that is not working, and that I can trust myself and my feelings. We are going to talk things through again, when we both have some weeks apart, but all in all I feel very sad, but very relieved and very, for lack of better words-triumphant!- I took care of myself, asked for the talk, and initiated a break-up that would have come eventually, on his end or mine, and probably after weeks of waffling which would have hurt me.
Thank you, ladies, for all your wise words last post ( which I responded to after this one went up) and Nathalie, for helping me negotiate my way through this jungle called the post-modern dating world:)
Dancing,
God for you!!!
If you get in touch with him to tell him how angry you are, or try to teach him a lesson, you will just be giving him another ego boost. “Oh look, another ex who is still hung up on me, how great am I”. It may help in keeping NC to remember that–you don’t want to give him any more power.
Also, these guys are broken. The women on here are working on themselves and figuring things out to have better relationships. For these guys, it’s just like groundhog day….he will do the same thing with the next one, he hasn’t moved on to some great relationship full of mutual trust, love, and respect.
Reality: he is not off the hook. You blowing him off, on some level, will get his ego, if nothing else. I promise you. What will let him off the hook is you going off on him; he wants you to, to make his desire to put you in the “crazy” catagory. He is an ass. Don’t bite.
Think of it this way: if you had been an ass to someone and they NC’d you, would you not, at some point, get the message that maybe, you were a bit of an ass, much better than if they hunted you down and tried to hurt you?
NC is great as a tool to eliminate people of all types: I NC’d a “frenemy” who just was not being cool, or giving and I still get narcicisstic emails for her and texts from time to time and it feels so good to just ignore; she wants that response, she wants to start a fight and play the victim because she knows that she was an ass and I am over, done with and so beyond caring: that is how you will eventually feel, if you stick with NC.:) Good luck!
Reality, it is up to you if you want to feel pain or not. I like that you are in “anger state” because it will help you to move on eventually.
I used to have a friend, she was dating this guy for 5 years, they bought a house few months prior and decorated it. Then he went to China and met a girl there, he brought her to UK. He informed my friend, that he does not love her anymore and felt like she was his sister, not a girlfriend. My friend went to collect her belongings from THEIR house and Surprise Surprise new girl already moved in with him!!! I cant even describe how she felt, she was drinking, dating men and still could not forget her ex. She could not understand, how new her ex “forgot” 5 years of their relationship and live like he never knew her with his new girlfriend. Finally she realised that she cant carry on living in mess, while her Ex enjoying their decorated house with his new girl…My friend decided to start again… she found a new job, which pays 75 K a year, eventually she met a new guy and married him after two years of dating, they bought £2 million house 🙂 We are no longer in touch, but I heard, that she is very happy and successful in her work and marriage, they are travelling and they are planning to start a family. My point IS her break up driven her to success, which Eloise mentioned above, my friend done it, so could you and me!
What hurts is when they prioritise everything else in their lives but you and still expect you to keep hanging around like a spare part…or perhaps they secretly wish for you to disappear but just don’t voice it for fear of appearing like an ass…little do they know that they are appearing like that anyway.
I think some of them wish you would disappear and the real sick sadistic ones never let go! Either way stay away!
Sorry for longer post in advance! Dear TEACHABLE, please, please, please stop beating yourself up. You’ve already been beaten up by a jackass, so just stop doing the same thing to yourself.
It hurts far worse when we beat ourselves, then when others hurts us. Depression is a sign your are not treating yourself well. What is that makes you think your such a bad person so that you deserve being mistreated by others, and far worse, even by YOU? I’m very sorry to hear about your past. But you know what, it is not YOUR history of abuse, it is THEIR history of being jackasses. There is one thing you can do: taking your life and your power BACK. THEY DON’T DESERVE YOU. Why are you sacrificing your well being in order to make that sociopathic ex of yours happy? Why does that dickhead deserve happiness, and you don’t?
Please, stop googling the damn jerk. You’re are just feeding your fantasy about him. BTW, he might look happy with all the cool photos on the facebook, but it doesn’t really MAKE HIM happy. Truly happy and satisfied people don’t go around and mess with other people’s lives.
You already feel so invested that you just hang on by a thread of believing that the investment will pay off. Sorry, honey, it will not, because it was a bad investment in the first place. It happened to all of us. Just let go and LEAVE before the bankrupt. You do know it’s for your own good.
Why are you afraid to let go of that sick abusive, sociopathic, addicted bastard? Do you really think it’s the best you can do? The best you can do is to build a solid, stable relationship full of love with yourself first. Why do you keep worrying about his life, his happiness, his rehab, while at the same time harming yourself? It suites him to be fucked up and it’s NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. You’re your own business, start taking care of yourself. You CAN do it.
You fell for this psychopath, because in his sad story you saw your little abused self. And you tried to heal by healing him and making him to love you. No, the guy is severely damaged and just plain evil. He cannot love anyone. And even if he COULD love someone, you certainly don’t need his sick, ugly, pain in the ass love! You do know that you DIDN’T deserve to abused then you were a child, and you certainly don’t deserve to abuse now or EVER. So stop stepping into any sort of a relationship with the…with the sicko who only wishes you worse!
As for your impression no one cares about you I’m sorry to hear that you have no family support. But it’s again because they are fucked up. It’s not because something’s wrong with you. Your do know that serial killers have a ton of fans. And it doesn’t make them GOOD people! However, if the people surrounding you don’t care, it’s time for you to start taking care of YOU, and stop trying to please the morons who abuse and neglect you.
You don’t love him! Stop convincing yourself that you love him! I know, because I did the same thing by convincing myself that I loved the psycho who raped me. It’s like I wanted to explain to myself why I put up with his crap, and the idea of a great nuclear “love” just made me put up with more crap. I was basically just giving him the excuse to keep abusing me. Don’t do the same thing! You cannot love someone who hurts you all the time. And you actually put up with his abuse and your fantasizing about him, only because he treats you so bad. And actually, that’s the same treatment you get from yourself. It’s familiar when people are abusive to you, isn’t it? Stop the circle, you have the power to do so!
So, the psycho tried to incite you suicide?!!! And you’re still worried about his well being and rehab? God dammit woman, pull yourself together! Ditch the jerk for good! Please, stick to yourself by not letting him contact you! It doesn’t matter if he shows up single, married, rehabbed, enlightened, green, ugly, beautiful, happy or dead. He’s a jerk, a bad person, and doesn’t deserve your love. But YOU deserve your love.
It doesn’t surprise me you’re a published academic author. Of course the psychos LOVE to mess up with accomplished women. They choose the good, warm, smart women with low self esteem. Sorry, but you have very low self esteem. It’s the reason you let him in your life and kept making it easy for him to abuse. But, you know what? We ALL have some phases of low(err) self esteem, and it’s not incurable!!! Which means you CAN and I know you WILL let go of this highly unhealthy situation by sticking to NC, and by not THINKING about him.
Yes, you have survived far worse abuse, but you didn’t heal. And no one can do this except you. Start healing yourself by walking off from the psycho for good. Your life isn’t about him, it’s about YOU…
titi
“Truly happy and satisfied people don’t go around and mess with other people’s lives”. Aint that the truth. This statement of fact will be added to my daily positive self talk.
Teachable
Its time to give yourself all the love and care you gave to him. You clearly have love in abudance so start to sooth yourself with it.
The men who act like this ,act like this will all women.Don’t think it’s just you ,because it’s not.The way they treat one woman is the way they will trea all ,if not in the begining then certainly by the end.They damage so many people. It’s been months for me , but I still struggle with what he did to me. It was so cruel…I think to myself I’d like to meet another man ,but then another part of me has been damaged and that part says no. I don’t know or feel that I will ever be able to put my trust 100 %,, and give of my heart again ..
@Fifi – I’ll agree with your points wholeheartedly. Even though I’m not officially Buddhist, I have drawn on some of those concepts. One of my go to books is “When Things Fall Apart” by Pema Chodron. NC has been good for those reasons. In an ideal world someone will explain and apologize for their unkind behavior but I’ve learned that men who act this way aren’t prone to do either.
@Pam – I think so, too. My last guy moved quickly to find a new gal. I hear tales from a guy friend who goes to the same places and whom my ex doesn’t know. Guys don’t usually behave dysfunctionally just for us – it is who they are and their well-run playbook. My guy friend says, damn, that guy is a real charmer- yup. I just feel sorry for the next gal(s). I have not been inclined to date again yet for I have some rethinking to do plus I am really busy with work. My next strategy will be to not be so willing to believe words no matter how authentic they seem – to listen more closely to my gut – to take time to get to know whether his actions follow his words – and no more pedestals or getting too comfortable and available too quickly.
Your saying you will listen to your gut more closely strikes a chord. Long story but broke up with UEM about six weeks ago. He refused to answer my calls but posted on FB and twitter about my underwear and our relationship, all of which I ignored. Then he sent me obscene texts so I emailed and suggested we meet in a couple of months to talk – he told me I was dumped and my stuff was in his garage. A mutual friend begged me to talk to him, so against my gut feeling, I arranged to meet in his town one Sunday morning to “discuss our relationship” (in fact I already had all his stuff packed in my car). We agreed his town because I was staying overnight with a friend there, which he knew. At midnight I got a text from him saying he’d rather meet me in my town (30 miles away). Then at 6am I got another saying he wanted to meet as soon as “I could get back here” . Although this text was vague (typical) in my gut I KNEW he was in my house (we’d swapped keys) and I KNEW he’d been there since the first text he’d sent at midnight. I felt it like a punch in the stomach, it was such a strong knowledge – no evidence, but I KNEW. He waited until he knew I was 30 miles away overnight , before he let himself in – you don’t do that if your intentions are good. And we were supposed to be having a frank and open conversation later that morning 30 miles away! All I could think of was “this guy set up my laptop, he can get into all my financial information, he could be stealing my money, or he could be trashing my house. ” I called the police to come back to the house with me – and yep, he was there. He said he’d been hoping for a reconciliation but supposed he’d messed that up. No really? When I checked my computer – all my finances seem secure – but he’d been into my emails and sent some to his own email address. I called the police again . They called him on speaker phone and he said he’d been looking for evidence that I was considering dating again – as if that justified his actions. The police told him not to contact me again or it would be harassment – this morning I’ve received flowers and a card saying he is sorry for the catastrophic events and begs me to get in touch, distressed to think he scared me, thinks we can still work it out. No apology for entering my home. I can feel myself softening, then I have to remind myself – even before…
!!!!
Obscene texts! Posting nasty stuff about you on facebook! Setting up a time to talk and then, once you are out of the way, letting himself into our house and gong through your email! Telling the POLICE that he broke into your house to find evidence you might be dating again! Flowers and a card and we can still work it out!
Creepy obsessive controlling stalker. If you get back with him he will treat you like dirt once he’s sure of you. It’s all, and only, about control. Not love.
Change your locks and press harassment charges. The police already warned him.
You will feel SO empowered and clear to not participate in any way in his game.
It’s not like he was a terrific boyfriend — you broke up with him for a reason before all this, and I bet that reason was because he is the kind of guy who IS like this.
faith
im with ixnay. i read your story with increasing incredulity but had to gasp when you said your heart is softening? wut?
This man is dangerous. The POLICE think he’s dangerous and that’s their area of expertise.
If I knew I could break into someone’s house, snoop around and get forgiven with a bunch of flowers, I might try it myself. Be careful that you’re not equating this boundary-busting drama with real affection.
End it now and stop letting him jerk you around.
Don’t be one of those crazy couples who always has the police around sorting out their domestics.
I once just contacted someone on an online dating site – pretty pedestrian, next thing I know, I am being bombarded with SEXTS (this doesn’t seem to be covered much here) of their abs, ass, etc. We hadn’t even had a proper conversation!!
Stupidly, I flew past these red signals and tried to get a date. Can you imagine the amount of STALLING that was going on here. Jaysus. A week went past they missed two dates, they were drunk/had a big night blah blah blah, texting all the time (gawd, effing texts!!)
FLUSH!
That’s my limit now – one week and that’s it. MAXIMUM LIMIT.
TOA, I think this falls into the broader category of inappropriate behaviour. Someone you haven’t even met sending you ‘sexy pics’, or turning the conversation sexual within the first couple of conversations….I think it’s come up on here before, and I’d say it’s reason to cut them immediately.
Yes, what´s with all this texting??!! Why can´t these men make the effort to see us in person? I´ve had already two guys (who I knew in real life) trying to sext and have cybersex with me – only that. And it was very disappointing because I did fancy them before.
I even received some pics of an erection – which was a bit odd. I tried to tell myself it was kind of funny – but it really wasn´t.
Are they sick or what?
They don’t even write anything anymore! It’s just pictures of erections and the like!
I don’t think they get that that isn’t a turn-on in any sense. But it’s a really great one-shot declaration of what kind of man they are to send that. No date required!
Faith,
The others said it well, but truly, this guy is beyond fucked up. Please change your locks and stay clear of him. Sending flowers means nothing after breaking into your home, hacking into your email, sending obscene texts and posting inappropriate information on facebook.
Faith,
I hope you’re not serious!!!! I mean what does this guy have to do to you!!!!!
@Faith, wow, that is really a creepy tale. Please, I hope you are NEVER in touch with this psycho again. His behavior is way off the grid. My brother had an ex girlfriend that did really weird things like that and it escalated to frightening things.
Faith,
I’m with the others. When I was away on a research trip last year, the guy I had sublet a room from got weird on me and I let some authorities know; he too left flowers and called after he had been told, in writing, that he was not to make contact with me. The flowers and calls after that just made me more alarmed, as they should you. Let the police know that he has continued to attempt contact, so that they have a record, and for your part, avoid all contact with this person.
My EUM/MM was dying to meet my mom! wanted to take the both of us out to dinner. Once when he was in town last minute, and I refused to see him, he wanted to take her out on his own. Why? To treat her well and to treat me well in front of her? How did he plan to explain himself? Is that nuts or what? And then it would be back to the monthly/bimonthly texts and the shabby treatment? I’m with Pam, I give up!
Grace said somewhere: “We are all the “next” girl”. So true! We can judge by ourselves how they are going to treat / have treated others.
Never,
Does your mother know you were with a MM?
I don’t think she knows, she may suspect, she talked to him on the phone once and for some reason he thinks she “likes” him as in he is a nice guy. Why? It is messed up, any way you slice it! Don’t get the point of it all. Think is it some sick sh$t!
Never,
You’re right! It is messed up!
There is no future here!
@allison I think wanting to meet my mom is throwing crumbs my way, he wants me to think that he is somewhat serious about me, but he just wants to get laid when he’s in town!
A hook, just a hook.
Never,
This just eats away at your soul.
Time to cut off his supply. Permanently!
NTL, my EU was not a MM, but he also wanted to meet my Mom. But, it was odd because he was not introducing me to anyone in his life (friends, family)….I think he likes the idea of ingratiating himself into someone else’s life and feeling all important, while compartmentalizing things in his own life. I did not introduce him, and it irritated me…..why in the hell would he think I would make an important introduction when he hasn’t even introduced me to his friends? It seems like another form of future faking in a way too. He would always make these grand statements about the future, yet in the present, where was the progression?
@broadshield… I knew him for years , which in retrospect , is the answer within itself. I can’t believe I was so blind to his dysfunction for all that time. I has my suspictions I must admit , but again in retospect ..I realise now ,what kept me stuck was my wanting validation …I never got it …but the way he deceived me into being involved with him again on the last occassion of involvement is the one that was the worse. I think he was probably stringing another woman along as well. Anyhow, I do believe there are good men out there. And if I met one of those , I would be very much more aware of flashing signs , and cut it off straight away. I hadn’t ever been involved with someone who acted as he did before. This was another factor in what happened , because he was a liar , and yet has the ability to sound genuine. I realised at the end , he has an almost total lack of conscience , and any real feelings for others. His behaviour ranging from what appeared to be very caring …to treating someone almost like a stranger within a matter of hours…this man is definately a pasive/agressive personality . I’m feel certain I’m not the only woman he’s left feeling as I was . He’s probably emotionally scarred other women during his time..only someone without any real feelings can keep hurting women over and over ….
@ Pam, your text could describe a lot of aspects of my guy, too – though I was only involved with this one for 3 months. “….he was a liar , and yet has the ability to sound genuine. I realised at the end , he has an almost total lack of conscience , and any real feelings for others. …” Yep. I would also call that narcissistic behavior. This guy was on two antidepressants and said (as he broke up with me the second time) that he did not think he had the ability to feel love (after writing me various ‘love you, want to be with you forever’ cards along the way)….nor did he aparently have the ability to feel empathy. No idea how guys can seem so authentic on one level, but are such uncaring people underneath. It must be a long standing way of being. A very manicured front to hide the dysfunction underneath. It would take a psychiatrist to figure some of these cases out – I know I am not one, and do not want any more guys that are so disingenuous/inconsistent/have no integrity.
TOA – “And yes, for 3-4 months, I WAS ENRAGED LIKE HELL in the mornings I would snap wide awake and be in the most blinding fury about what he did, what he didn’t do and how he got off scot free.”
I have been experiencing this too!! I feel like it just hits me in the face sometimes, I will be going about my life and these waves of BLIND ANGER just envelop me and I feel so overwhelmed.
I am not a revengeful person, however in this situation I trusted so much and made myself so vulnerable to someone who didn’t even care and I think a lot of my anger is at myself. Like how did this happen? How didn’t I notice what was going on? I am usually so keen on these things. I am the person who my friends always come to for relationship advice and I am always able to speak into their situations, it’s like as plain as day to me what is going on there. But when it came to myself, in my own time of need, I truly let myself down. It’s very hard to forgive.
I think had I been the one to walk from him… this would be easier to swallow but to give so much of myself AND THEN be dumped on my a** like I was an annoyance… “just move on”…. well that is a deep cut that just doesn’t seem to even begin to know how to heal.
I just feel like I need justice somehow. Not only that but I want to lay HIM flat on his a** and let him see that if you mess with someone there is a PRICE you pay. Basically I want to be karma for a day!
Thanks to all who understand, it helps to know I’m not alone in these feelings. Ugh!
Yep, I still get those flashes of white-hot anger at times. GRRRRR, I could just SHAKE him till his teeth rattle–!
I’m trying to learn how to redirect those bouts of rage to productive ends. Today, for example, I was in the shower, and started ruminating, and got all fired up. I decided to push back: “Oh yeah, buddy? Guess what, I’m taking this anger and I’m going to USE it.” Let the energy push me to do something good for myself — not punish myself, but do something that advances my cause.
It doesn’t always work, but it’s a start. Failing anything productive, there are always pillows to be punched. 🙂
I read something somewhere (vedic astrology) about energetic bonds that are set up during sex and get energy flowing form the woman to the man, even long after they’ve broken up and he’s with someone else, yep, still sucking energy and feeding off his ex! Outrageous, huh! There are even some remedies such as wearing a piece of black onyx for 7 days in the pants, preferably during the monthly period, and then putting it into the ground to break the energetic bond. Voodoo, nonsense, panacea, may be, whatever works! I tried this thing with the onyx once and really felt better immediately, it felt like the obsession stopped. The main thing is to get one’s minds off the sucker.
wow…..its not just me.
I am the OPPOSITE of being angry, and so it was very very scary to feel these feelings. Curiously, the anger seemed to dissipate by 9 am so I could have a normal day, but come 9pm I’d be feeling nostalgic, I’d fall asleep and then *BANG* 3am, snap wide awake in fury!
Watch out – next usually comes mega depression, and in this stage you can completely wind yourself and feel like you’ve just woken up after a nuclear bomb blast has been through your life and scorched everything to the ground, leaving nothing but a desolate, empty landscape. Don’t go it alone – get yourself down to the psych and explain to them that you’ve had a non-relationship or been with an unavailable and get help. I was so comprehensively and completely destroyed that I needed sessions every week while going through this stage, sometimes twice a week!
TOA, if you wake up at the same time every night, this might be an indication that some organ isn’t working properly. 3 a.m., as far as I know, is the time of the liver (Traditional Chinese Medicine, I totally recommend seeing a good practitioner), you may benefit from a liver detox diet: no butter, eggs, chocolate, no peanuts, only skimmed milk and cheese, basically, go light on the animal fats. Plus, go light on whatever we know is not good for the liver, such as drinks. Oh, and totally expect to see a difference in terms of belt size.
This could have been written TO me, about me. I let that married man twist me in a million different inhuman ways over the last few years, and I took every single blow he dealt. It’s as if I was begging for his indifference, his disrespect, while he tossed me the occasional bone to keep me hanging on. It wasn’t like that in the beginning. I knew the game, though I’d never played it. I knew the rules. I MADE the rules. He came to me in the beginning, begging for my attention, my time. Then somehow, over the course of the affair, I started feeling trapped and needy, thinking of him when I should not. I held back those feelings, but naturally he sensed my need and that gave him power over me. Power that he abused every way possible. He would set up dates, meetings for sex really, then he would not show up. Or would call with a flimsy excuse at the last minute. I took this crap! He would text me if he had a free block of time from the pitiful wife (who I feel so sorry for now), and expect me to meet him – wherever, whenever. I never said no. Not one time. I would dash off from family dinner, or the gym, or from whatever I may be doing, and I would meet that sorry excuse of a human being that I’d become addicted to. I once drove 900 miles one way to spend two nights with him. The more I disrespected my own worth, the more he took advantage of me. I would call and beg him to take me back after I’d broken up with him. And I broke up with him dozens of times when I felt I couldn’t take his abuse, but I couldn’t not break free from the addiction. Each needy text, every needy call, proved to him that I was worth nothing and he treated me as such. He even started disrespecting me physically, with out of control rough sex. I took that too. Then one day his wife found out and that was the best day of my life. It’s been a little more than three months since she found his phone and read our twisted texts. She called me and I couldn’t speak to her. I felt lower than I’ve ever felt in my life. He told her a million lies about me. Suddenly, it didn’t matter what he thought as I started to see him as the scum he truly was. I valued myself so little that I let him treat me like that, and that is the hardest part to deal with. I LET it happen. The three years it was going on, I left my husband, started drinking, have gained weight, am smoking again, haven’t…
WantingMore, maybe you could take a look at the LAA proboards, there are many testimonies like yours on there. You talk about an addiction to this guy, it seems in many cases these toxic relationships do operate as an addiction inside your mind, and at LAA they use methods to get out of that state and have a full recovery. Hope that helps.
Sorry Natalie, I feel like the blog hog this weekend but your recent posts have elicited so many wonderful comments, I can’t help myself and it is helping myself.
WantingMore, I think my first post on BR was so similar to yours, when I read what you wrote, I thought it was one of my prior comments. You articulated precisely how my affair with the MM started. He came a begging and, in the beginning, I MADE the rules. I signed up to play, thinking I could call the shots. What a shocker when I ended up at his beck and call, twisted into a pretzel, begging for crumbs, and overlooking major disappointments as you describe. Natalie does a wonderful job of describing this phenomenon in her book Mr. U and the FBG. It’s a classic bait and switch commonly used by AC/EUM/MM’s with Miss Independent, Miss Self-Sufficient FBG’s. I strongly recommend this book and her new Dreamer book. OW’s are Dreamers.
After so many disappointments (too many to list), I broke it off about every other week only to sign back up for more of his crap. By the time it ended (his wife found out too), I didn’t have to worry about dropping what I was doing, I wasn’t doing anything! I was on ice, waiting to see if he could get free from his wife. I had no life other than him. Other than the fact I was 50 with a young adult daughter and a career and my own house. All that was marginalized and on the back burner.
I felt lower than low when his wife found out. That’s when the fantasy ended and reality hit. I was complicit in the lying, cheating, and deception. I didn’t let it happen. I engaged to the detriment of myself, my family and friends as well as his wife and family. It’s taken a better part of a year and a half to come to grips with my role, be accountable, and it hasn’t been pretty. You can put your life back in order now that you are free. You can learn to value you. Cheating MM’s are toxic sewer scum. It takes all my reserve if I meet an attached male who is chatting me up (it’s my first question). If he’s attached, I don’t even waste my breath telling him he’s a walking, talking cesspool, arsehole. I nod, flush, and move on.
I hope one day your handle will be “Got More”. You can.
Teddie, you made me laugh out aloud…”The main thing is to get one’s mind off the sucker.” So frigging true. I can’t even begin to recount the disappointments, mostly disappointment in me for settling for such crap or how I settled for being so low on the totem pole of priorities. I’ll be googling vedic astrology and black onyx. I just finished the section in my class on traditional healing, shamanism, magic, witchcraft, and sorcery (voodoo). Who cares what it is if it works. This stuff works for a ton of folks around the world. After a year and change on BR and reading Natalie’s books, particularly the Dreamer book, and doing my grief work, I’m starting to gain some traction but I figure a little black onyx in my pants during that time of the month (yeah, 53 next week and still menstruating) can’t hurt, right? Certainly much better than having him in my pants! Give me black onyx any day of the week. Thanks for your comment. Still laughing.
Ladies I was with you regarding the red hot/white hot anger at how he seemed to move on with no regard for me. Then once I could focus on me, that searing anger turned inward. How could I allow myself to be treated like a blow-up toy? How did I allow myself to be last on the list of priorities? How did I suffer through two years of disappointments? That’s when the real gut wrenching work began. He knew from day one he could treat me like shit because I gleefully signed up to be treated like a blow up toy. As Natalie points out, he knew I’d put up with his shit because I did. My actions spoke louder than angry words cos I always signed back up and cooked dinner too. I might have well been pissing into the wind. Bottom line for me has been to turn the focus back to me. If I don’t want to be treated like a blow up toy, my actions have to follow my words. I’m still going to get some black onyx just to be sure.
Hang in there ladies. Anger has been very helpful to me in moving a bit on. Anger is tricky though. It’s got to be managed and productive. I do like the image of shaking him ’till his teeth rattle”… I won’t. I’ve spent so many hours telling him all about himself, it’s just a waste of time. He is not going to change no matter what I say. I’ve said it all. At some point, it’s just time to stop talking and start doing. My best to you all.
I googled Onyx. Wow!
Runnergirl, you have so much estrogen, you’re a young chick!
This onyx thing is supposed to work even if you’re not menstruating, by wearing it close to the vagina (under the pads is fine) for 7 days during the whole cycle, you let it absorb the energy, and by putting it into the ground, you disconnect the bond to the sucker, like a lightning rod, sort of. I felt instant alleviation.
He, he, you’re right, keeping the sucker out of your pants in the first place is a better way of keeping your mind off him. Bad enough we suffer and are depleted, but just the idea he may be still fueling himself off our energy, arggghh!
I think runner and teddie I might go for some nice black onyx jewellery. Why hide it in your pants?
I don’t understand why friends treat other friends with competition, insults, lack of respect and value, and the need to feel superior to friends that are loyal and supportive. Don’t get it.
“Claiming that the reason why they treat you as they do is because, is for instance your the “strong” one in the family.” This is always what lame excuses my parents use all the time on me. Especially why they’re so strict with me and really easy going with my younger siblings. They’re always full of BS.
thankyou for your thoughtful reply runnergirl. I’m very tired from severe sleep disturbance, caused by googling xAC a few nights ago & realising he is back with the mother of his child – like I give a brass razoo (!) & an emotionally abusive episode w my son 2 nights ago. My circadian pattern has totally reversed from just this 🙁 I take meds @ 11 pm (which is supposed to help me sleep & relieve my chronic pain injury & under normal circumstances does) but these 2 stressors have been so distressing (not logically – but emotionally & on a somatic level) that they overpower the meds so I’m up till 7 am, take more meds then desperate to sleep, which I’ve then done all day for past 3 days 🙁 Upshot? My exam study timetable (which had not a single day to spare in it) has been shot to pieces 🙁 Even starting immediately 2 get bk on track – I will now b under prep’d for my exam. Nightmare! And all caused by my own actions! You are right. It’s ME I’m angry with most of all. These people (my Son included) are abusive, yet, I placed myself in harms way, knowing that (xAC less so as it took a while for me to recognise that the 1st weekend was sex assault – by the time I did, I not only reported it to the police but also have had no furthe physical contact ie I havent seen him since Jan 2011, from which time on I’ve tried to end it, with repeated failed NC attempts).
I know this is just my low self esteem talking (as after what has happened with xAC this has taken a battering) but I feel like such a loser. I’m trying not to beat myself up about it, but I of all people, after years of counselling myself, working with survivors of DV & sexual assault, should have known better. I’m far from new to the journey of self discovery & taking responsibility for my behaviour. I can only put it down to, notwithstanding a binge drinking problem which was my reason for leaving xAC back then, after saying ‘go to rehab & if I’m single when you get a year sober, we can reasess then’ the xAC did not display any of his other many dysfunctions when I first fell in love with him 2 decades ago (& because I didn’t live with him back then – it took me a whole 2 1/2 yrs to even realise he had a binge drinking problem at the time!). Thus, when he returned, 17 years later, with a good job he’d had for a number of years etc, I thought, ‘he came back for me – so maybe it’s meant to be’. What a crock! I despise him now. Truely despise him. (Which is actually great, as in a cpl of yrs when I’m ready to start dating again – ie I’m off the market for an extended period to attend to my physical & mental health as well as to rebuild my career & resolve my $ issues – I will be fully emotionally available with no residual feelings).
So, now what? Well. 1. I will move heaven & earth to re establish my sleep pattern so I can resume exam prep tomorrow. The lesson? A simple google of xAC CAN & DID do enormous damage. Who’d of thought? Sigh. It’s not like I didn’t get him to set his facebook page to private ages ago (he complied & we’ve both blocked each other. My fb is set to private also). I guess not only do I have to abide by all of my NC measures (which are all in place) but even a simple google search is out. Why did I do that I wonder? I think really, I was just bored whilst surfing my iphone in bed late at night. Such a small thing causing such terrible upset? Ugh. FLUSH!!!!
Topline information: he is a clown.
Bottom line information: NCR & FLUSH!
I fell off the wagon too. It was painful, but I got back on.
I’m very tired from severe sleep disturbance, caused by googling xAC a few nights ago & realising he is back with the mother of his child – like I give a brass razoo (!)
Man, these guys are soooooooooooo predictable!
They really are so predictable, TOA. Reminds me of those Talking Ken dolls, where you pull the string and they doll says one of about 5 or so lines:
“I’m not ready for a relationship right now.”
“Um, I went back to my ex.”
“I miss youuuuuuuuuu…um, no, I haven’t left my wife.”
“Aww, can we still be friends?”
“wut r u doin l8r 2nite”
Etc.
Hey Teachable,
Yeah it is amazing what damage can occur due to a little cyber-contact. Natalie and the others are totally spot on, NC means NO contact not even a little cyber snooping. I learned the hard way too. At least you know the truth, he’s back with the woman and he’s abusive and has a drug problem and is raising a son. His plate is pretty full. Now, it’s time for you and for you to get back on track with regards to your exams and it sounds like your plate is pretty full with your life. You can make up for the lost time with regards to your exams.
I did the kicking my arse around the backyard too. I had been in counseling for five years after ending a verbally abusive relationship, only to sign up to suffer the disappointments inherent in being an OW with someone who was a cardboard cut out of my father. I should have known better too. One day a while back when I was beating myself up, Blaise Parker made a wonderful comment, something to the effect of, maybe the universe has sent you your one last ass. Maybe the universe sent you this abusive, attached, returning childhood sweetheart asshole to make sure you will always take care of you and never allow others to take advantage of you. You’ve removed yourself from this creep’s It’s Okay to Disappoint and Abuse Rolodex. You have a plan to rebuild your life. You are NOT a loser. I felt that way too. The fact that this creep is a drug addicted abuser has nothing whatsoever to do with you. When you have time and are bored surfing the net, Natalie has some great posts on forgiveness and being accountable rather than blaming.
I am so sorry you learned the hard way. This guy needs more than rehab. He needs a swift kick up his back side and a long prison term. I’m also sorry about your son. Keep focused on you though. Keep focused on rebuilding your life. You don’t have time for this loser.
Girl, you can do so much better than that LOSER. Glad to see you are going to start taking care of you. He’s not worth losing one minute of sleep.
Wanting to meet my mom is so messed up too, is he so enamoured with himself? I am obviously not a proirity, he is not my boyfriend, sick SOB!
Re: article for 7 needs of husbands. Would be almost acceptable except perfection is IMPOSSIBLE!! lol!! And, totally impossible with EU men, who are unable to return in kind. Both parries have to be emotionally, spiritually mature, and still these standards are pretty high and unforgiving. Yes, I’ve seen a lot of abuse justified in the name of God, totally misinterpreted by imperfect and self serviant mankind.
thanks for feedback titi. I do appreciate it. I perhaps should clarify I’m not depressed b.cuz I’m not looking after myself though. Rather it’s a secondary effect of a seriously debilitating chronic pain condition which has prevented me from working (& studyingly mostly also) for 18 mths now. In addition I have cardiac problems. In a nutshell? My body which was once a workhorse has stopped dead in it’s tracks and said ‘sorry kiddo, but you aint going ANYWHERE’ lol I might laugh about it but it’s not really funny. I’m virtually housebound & having previously led a VERY active lifestyle, this on top of having lost edging up to around $80,000 in lost wages alone (ie the portion which I’m not insured) & this placing me in a precarious $ position (as work may be out according to the Drs for ‘a few years’ well, as a former career woman, it is all a tad depressing! lol I take yr point though & am trying hard to just focus on nurturing myself atm 🙂
Cc I almost cried when I read your post. I know logically through my past work that I’m far from the only woman in the world to have experienced these things but it’s SO embarressing & humiliating to admit the shambles my life is in! So long as I don’t get in any deeper though I suppose. Meanwhile, it’s just baby steps, baby steps…sigh.
I guess maybe I should stick around too because even the thought of breaking NC w xAC gives me the shivers. I’m SO traumatised by everything that happened (& yes, I do take a measure of responsibility for placing myself in harms way). Who’da thunk though that someone I thought was my soul mates all those years ago wud force themselves on me sexually & then try to entice me to suicide to keep their transgression a secret? Makes me shudder!! YIKES!!!
Love to all you beautiful strong women. Yr all so very inspiring!! x
A-frickin-MEN!!! I’m tired of the men that want to fuss and argue with me because they can’t handle the fact that I called them on their own shortcomings! I will not stoop to accommodate a man because a). I don’t have to, and b). any guy that was worth the effort and really wanted me wouldn’t require me to! I’ve realized that I’m worth way more and I’m living in accordance to that now. Time waits for no man, and neither do I! NEXT!!!
Hi Natalie,
I LOVE this article. In particular, I appreciate you saying “what you don’t want is certain people keeping you in their mental It’s OK To Disappoint Roladex”. It really paints a vivid picture to be avoided at all costs. Thank you for sharing your wisdom!!
Warmly,
Susan 🙂
Ok, still making progress.
I’ve managed to walk away from the AC’s mate (useless) and ask someone else for a date. They seem shy as hell and say yes to everything and check all the time if everything is good – to the point where I wonder if I’m actually with them or someone fake!
It has been a week now and it seems like a STRUGGLE to get them to arrange anything or even phone me. It feels like I am doing all the work. I have tried hard to phone phone but they text back and it is almost like a battle. Sigh. And they work shifts/busy blah blah
I think this is code red and mission abort. Very cr*p after just one week, and it is already uphill! The upshot is at least where I would flush them after many many months, I can flush this one now. Are they EUM? I think they’re just not making an effort and the whole thing has the hallmarks of an excuse relationship waiting to happen already. We went out last night and they were tired all the night blah blah got up at 4 am yada yada…
I think I will flush them! TOA presses on!
tired
Do this:
Ask them out
Go out
Then let him come to you. One phonecall if you must.
In that time, just get on with your life. No planning your next phone call, or what you will say, or more phone calls or telling yourself it’s been a week (which isn’t long) or calling it a code red or saying he’s EUM. It’s only been one date and unless something awful happened like an assault, just let it go if he’s not interested. On your first date, ALL you should be doing is a) finding out if he’s single and b) having fun.
Dislcaimer: I’m crap at dating.
Grace, may I say that your response to TOA is perfect and helpful as I contemplate the dating scene at 5frigging3. TOA, I appreciate your comment. I totally get the distinction between repeated disappointments from engaging with a EUM (for years) vs dating (one date) as a discovery phase. I’d just register the feedback you have received, or lack thereof, and give it a rest.
And Grace, may I gently suggest that you may not be crap at dating? Could that be some past baggage negative tapes? Your comment about being crap at dating when so many of your wonderful comments on BR indicate the contrary made me think about me. Am I crap at dating or have I never tried for fear of disappointment, yet again. It’s about having fun.
PS. My Grace pepper plant has tons of buds and two peppers a half an inch long.
TOA, why are you asking a man out? If he is interested he would ask you. This is not about red flag behaviour from him, or you needing to flush! Its about celebrating your feminine energy and knowing that a guy who wants to date you will pursue you. This is about you, not him !!!
TOA, try to relax, dating should be fun. It sounds like you’re trying too hard to force it with every guy you ask out or go on a date with (or trying to determine very quickly whether you should write him off as an EUM). If a guy is interested, he will call you. He will ask you out. Just let it be and see what happens–if the guy isn’t calling, then move on. Especially for the first few dates, let him initiate contact and make plans so that you’re sure he’s interested and not just going along with your suggestions.
I don’t know if I’m reading things wrong in the situation with my ‘ex’ or if it’s me that’s the problem. Having been in contact with him again for a couple weeks I am doubting what I thought I had figured out.
We had spent some time together and ended up in an argument. I asked to meet again and discuss in person what had happened and he would say not now, maybe next week, or just ignore me. This putting it off went on for a month, no matter how I tried to arrange a time and day that was convenient for him, so I stopped trying to fix things with him.
Weeks later we bumped into each other on a night out with mutual friends. I gave him the cold shoulder but he wouldn’t leave me alone. Tried to charm his way back into my good books.
He said we should meet up sometime soon. I said I’m busy for the next while.
Then he started texting me to meet up.
I put it off for a couple of weeks but he was so insistent so I gave in and met him for coffee in a busy place that he suggested.
After some akward chat where he prattled on about himself, he asked were we on bad terms, I said no because I didn’t want to start bickering in public.
I sent him a text later telling him why I had been upset with him on that night out. he told me I was being harsh and ridiculous. A text argument followed where he told me
-that I was trying to make him look the bad one,
-that I wasnt innocent,
– that the conditions had been set (HIS conditions) and he’d been honest about his conditions,
– that he wudnt have let things go so far but I had pushed him into it,
– I had expected things of him and demanded things from him,
-that he’d needed a friend and I hadn’t shown him any compassion during his stressful times,
-that I didn’t care about him
-and what was wrong with two people having some fun ( he meant sexual fun) because things could have developed into something more (if I’d not had expectations and made demands).
I asked him to meet me so we could have a private chat face to face instead of texting or meeting in a public place and he said he didn’t want to meet for a fight. I said not for a fight, to talk instead of texting and he didn’t reply.
I am frustrated beyond belief because i know he won’t meet me and he’ll just want to smooth things over and play nice next time our paths cross.
am I being unreasonable?
Confused,
This is a textbook example of the bait and switch that Natalie described so well in the MA-book. He turned the tables on you by loading you with guilt, self-doubt and second-guessing. Flush!
Confused
Yes you are unreasonable. You meet him, he keeps being who he is, you get mad at who he is, you want to meet him to tell himabout himself and on and on. It is unreasonable to expect someone to be something they are not. It is unreasonable to expect someone to want what they don’t want.
You’re frustrated beyond belief because you won’t accept the truth.
When they confuse you, don’t go to them for clarity, stay away. You say your paths cross, that’s not strictly true. You’re actively pursuing him for your own agenda. Nuke him.
And, yes, he’s persistent. It’s because he keeps getting results. Nuke him.
Confused,
Why are you wasting your time with this???
EUMs and Assclowns don’t like to have bright lights shone on either their face or their sh*t. This person KNOWS that you don’t like them and that their reputation is damaged with you, so now they are on a reputation rescue mission where they have to convince and basically railroad you into an alternative reality where (a) they’re not an asshole/assclown, (b) you think they’re amazing, (c) their fringe benefits are restored. Just like Nat keeps saying that you shouldn’t have to convince someone to be in a LTR, you shouldn’t have to convince someone that you’re not an asshole.
Time to go NC on this clown.
Yes, and this is reset button stuff!
I sent him a text later telling him why I had been upset with him on that night out. he told me I was being harsh and ridiculous. A text argument followed where he told me. Stop pumping this clown, do you want to be right or happy (BR post on this).
-that I was trying to make him look the bad one
Who cares? It’s over (or it should be). Who is doing the looking?
This is an ego puff!
-that I wasnt innocent,
– that the conditions had been set (HIS conditions) and he’d been honest about his conditions,
– that he wudnt have let things go so far but I had pushed him into it,
Wow, he makes it sound like you’re responsible for EVERYTHING, which is just BS. You didn’t have a LTR with yourself or a mirror of course…
– I had expected things of him and demanded things from him,
-that he’d needed a friend and I hadn’t shown him any compassion during his stressful times,
-that I didn’t care about him
POOR PATHETIC ME WHINE.
-and what was wrong with two people having some fun ( he meant sexual fun) because things could have developed into something more (if I’d not had expectations and made demands).
Waaaaaaa! Boo-hoo! If he wants to have fun, why the hell can’t he go pay a prostitute.
Confused,
Why do you want to talk to this guy? He’s messing you around, has already said that all he wants is “some fun” with you, and he does not want to have a real conversation with you (again, because he isn’t serious and only wants what ‘fun’ you have to offer). Stop trying to reason with someone who is unreasonable. At best, he’s incredibly immature and selfish. A person who wants “something more” with you does not stipulate that you need to be up for casual sex and have no expectations before he will consider a relationship to be on the table. Get rid of him.
Yes, you’re being unreasonable.
You’re expecting something from someone who has shown and told you he doesn’t want you to have expectations. He doesn’t care like you care.
Please go not contact this instant. It’s the only way out of being miserable.
sorry for so many posts. i’ll keep this one shorter than a thesis. lol
runnergirl u sound SO together. I really like u. u’v done the work & r walking the talk & it shows! u should b so proud of how u’v turned things around! i might hunt around for some onyx too! that made me chuckle & Im a recovering hippie so shouldn’t b too much of a stretch!
& yes TOA, totally predictable. Also gross. Yukko stinkybottom scummy scraggley AC’s! Nat, it shouldn’t be EU but Euwwww! lol
ps Isobel & runnergirl my therapist gave me another analogy today. He said me googling xAC was like being a curious child who just can’t resist sticking my finger in the electric socket! Every time I do it, I get shocked & it hurts, but still, after a while I get curious again! Hmmph! ~hands on hips~
Well, no more curiosity here! I don’t want to end up a dead kitty (even though I almost am already lol) so the power has been disconnected cuz I’ve decided to stop paying the price/bill! 😀
Hi Teachable,
When I was seeing a counsellor whilst still in a relationship with my EUwww she always used to say to me, you keep going back like you can’t quite believe he is like he is. Every time he did something bad I would just not quite believe it and went back for another look. Or I would think it must be me cos no one is that bad, right? She also said I had an extremely long tether to get to the end of. But get to the end of it I did eventually. Maybe see it as needing to snap that tether – you get further and further away but until it finally breaks there is always that teeny tiny connection and temptation to be drawn back in. Hope you are feeling ok today. Keep well x
Atta girl, teachable. Every time you choose NOT to Google him, you’re choosing yourself. Keep flexing that Choose-You muscle, and you’ll grow nice and strong.
Thank you for your comment Tea Cozy. It really truly is the case where no contact means absolutely NO CONTACT, not even a google. Although my past google slips didn’t result in health issues or tangible contact, it was keeping me stuck. A new form of cyber-stuck.
Teachable, Tea Cozy and the others are right, every time you choose NOT to google him, you are choosing yourself and developing your Choose-You muscle. Tea Cozy, I’ve been really working on this so your comment helped me tremendously. Thank you as I continue to dig out of cyber-stuck and grow nice and strong. What a wonderful vision. Nice and strong.
Hi Confused,
you are definately not being unreasonable. He”s a dickwad & trying to manage down yr expectations. He has blatently distespected you. Unless yr up for more of the same (& worse, as typically things get progressively worse), FLUSH! x
The greatest amount of disappointment actually comes from continuing to hold out hope after someone has shown and told you who they are.
Holy!!! I needed some early morning BR at work for damage control.
I started seeing someone finally after the break up + NC since Nov 1st 2011. I felt so guilty for finally hooking up with someone new (it was a bit disappointing) that I thought of ringing the ex this morning. I still feel like I belong to him. I am over the pain but I can’t seem to cut the attachment.
I know – “Quit seeking a rejection retraction”!!! I’m actually the one who’s trying to push the reset button. I have done it mentally and even in my dreams it turns out badly! Must tell myself to keep moving forward. Ah, it’s so hard 🙁
Atrophy,
Sorry to hear it. I remember feeling the same way–“I still feel like I belong to him.”
Even the thought of kissing someone else over six months later just felt wrong, and made me sad. I didn’t want to be with anyone else, and I guess I still couldn’t accept that we weren’t together/would not be together again. (Of course, it didn’t help that he was still in contact and I had not gone NC).
@ confusedd he is twisting everything to make you think you are at fault . Don’t clarify anything, the vicious circle begins again. I almost broke nc but your post made me think twice, let me return the favor don’t bother!
Confusedd…. I understand!
This is exactly the kind of BS my AC pulled on me. He turned EVERYTHING around and really effed with my head, my self esteem, he did it in such a way that I truly believed everything was my fault.
I seriously could have written what you posted as my own saga which is just another sign that it’s not personal, this is a GAME to them. He feels like you are starting to wise up about him and so he will NEVER and listen to me NEVER actually sit down and have a conversation with you about what is going on between the two of you. That is the kiss of death to these boys. He knows you will ask questions he doesn’t want to answer and the minute you realize how he really feels it’s OVER for him.
It’s a cat and mouse game and it’s on PURPOSE. Please understand that. Your situation is not different and it’s not special, it is just like every other situation on here. He is playing with your emotions and effing with your head. Please try and see that.
IT IS NOT YOU, IT IS HIM! Repeat that to yourself ….
These guys are so disgusting, seriously I feel like they got the same memo, not one of them can even be a little more creative than the other. It’s all the same sh*t… like they share the same retarded brain. UGH!
ToA, runnergirl, polly, teacozy, sophia, Cc
Thankyou to everyone for yr kind words of encouragement. I’m deeply touched that people who don’t even know me would express such caring sentiments to a stranger on the net. I guess I’ve hung my ‘dirty linen’ out here for all to see. Unlike the real world (other than with my therapist & closest friends / sister), here, I feel like I don’t have to pretend that everything is ok. You all must have read my posts & thought, heck, this woman is in one hell of a pickle!
I feel like road kill today. I slept last night for the first time after 6 nights of ZERO sleep (sometimes w daytime naps – often times not). I worked out that something I was doing with my medication was re-inforcing the reversal of my circadian pattern. I broke that last night so that is a great first step to getting back on track.
The exam prep is thus a week behind. I may not be able to salvage that (& may have to sit the exam next semester instead if granted exemption on medical grounds). I plan to return to study this arvo. We will see.
In a nutshell, although what I’ve been through is horriffic the comment that it was a lesson of one final involvement ever in an an unhealthy relationship is how I’m choosing to see it. As you all suggest, it’s time for me to love myself no holds barred. Even though I haven’t seen xAC in person for almost 18 mths now, it’s still only 5 wks of NC with him (I don’t count the google incident as breaking this but won’t be doing that again). As such, & given I have a planned stay in hospital coming up re health issues, I know I have a long way to go. It helps to know I’m not alone.
Thankyou everyone. You’re all very kind. x
EU men are like bullies. They are emotionally stale individuals that manipulate your emotions. They have no capacity for empathy. If you look at bully psychology, you will notice they suffer from low self esteem and the only way for them to make themselves feel better is by making others feel lower than they are. There is a bullying cycle/pattern. They play mind games in an effort to control another person who they view as weaker thus creating a misplaced sense of their own self importance. Bullies are really cowards and a coward will always backdown in the face of courage. Be strong and choose YOU above all else. Dail affirmations to help:
I AM WORTHY OF RESPECT
I AM STRONG AND COURAGEOUS
I DESERVE TO BE TREATED WITH DIGNITY AND RESPECT
I AM A DECENT HUMAN BEING
I RESPECT AND LOVE MYSELF UNCONDITIONALLY
Good Luck Ladies………….MM
After years of reading baggage reclaim (Commented a couple of times) I have stopped beating myself up about someones behaviour, I am not there yet but my self esteem is way better than before, I have learnt to let go and be grateful an assho@le is not bothering me anymore, I have stopped to think they are happy when they are with someone else, sometime maybe they are better with someone else, I choose to focus on, well they were assholes with me and that was unacceptable to me. I read a lot of comments and say this was sooo me or this is soooo me. This year is the first year I have realised how eu I am myself, there is a long road ahead but atleast I am aware and am doing something about it and reaching milestones.
Thanks for the feedback everyone, I was starting to buy into his crap…he’s very charming and manipulative.
Starting NC again!
Can someone explain the ‘bait and switch?’
I found this post that explains it fairly clearly:
“This is a game that has been played by con artists for centuries without number….all manipulative techniques involve baiting a person with something he or she desires, and then substituting it for something else.”
A dirty tactic indeed. This is to confuse you and mess with your mind! He is an emotional bully. MM
I really stuffed up. I’ve been seeing this guy that I met online. But I gave it up too soon. He says he never waits and waiting is dumb. He asked me to be exclusive, yet he hadn’t taken his profile down. We had a fight. He said I don’t open up enough, but we haven’t known each other long. He said he can’t read me, yet I can’t read him either. I don’t know if it’s just my baggage making me paranoid. But he ditched me on The weekend coz he had work to do. And he was busy texting someone right in front of me before bed. I feel confused.
@ Fedup
Yikes, you know this is going sour! I’m sorry to say but he obviously isn’t taking you seriously or he would be showing you more respect. I’m in a similar position. Met someone, gave it up too easy, he’s been nice and fun but mentionned that he wasn’t looking for anything serious.
This is top line data! I can’t ignore it or want to change his mind. So I’m giving him the opportunity to take me out on the weekend for a dinner (since I paid last time), give back his stuff that’s at my place and then flush!
Life’s too short to waste your time trying to fight for someone’s affection. They should want to spend that time with you! Exclusively!!! xo
It’s been cemented and confirmed how much I denied and rationalized bad, disappointing behavior from my most recent ex Mr.EUM. I had my fortyith bday two days ago and get the lamest txt today. “Happy belated bday. Sorry its late (as usual).hope it was a great one!” Are u effing kidding me! Really?!?!?! We have been broke up for two months. I have had NO contact. It was over I bought your book, have been in therapy and there was no way in hell I would reply to something so lame and in reference to your post disappointing! Im moving on and have vowed to know my boundaries and know what Mr. Available is all about. I’m tired of lather, rinse and repeat. As if I would settle for those minuscule crumbs for a 40th bday wish! We dated for 10u mos I saw glitter and gold that eventually started to tarnish. He was in the process and I assume still of getting a divorce. He was already code red and I blatantly ignored my gut. I’ve learned a lot! I hope he felt it when I SLAMMED the door in his toe he was trying to keep in my life!