As I read through the comments, an age-old problem repeatedly reared its head:
Women who have a relationship history of being in inappropriate relationships with assclowns and other such men, do not know how to have or appreciate a relationship with a decent man.
In fact, more often than not, if this predicament does not get dealt with, the woman who has likely been a Fallback Girl in the past starts behaving like Mr Unavailable. Why?
Because ladies, you are still caught in the negative relationship patterns. You have started a relationship without getting to a healthier place within yourself first.You are not ready for a healthy relationship.
Remember, you weren’t ready for a healthy relationship when you were with your ex and if you have been involved with emotionally unavailable men on a habitual basis, it is because YOU are emotionally unavailable too.
You want a relationship, you want attention, you want companionship. In fact, you desperately want to prove to yourself that things will be different this time.
But let me say something that I’m sure many of you will not like to hear:
You can take the assclown out of the relationship but if YOU have not dealt with the issues that drew you to unhealthy relationships in the first place, you are still the common denominator in your relationships.
If things are still screwed up even though you’ve cut the ex off, it’s not him; it’s YOU.
If your new relationships are not prospering and them being emotionally available makes YOU feel uncomfortable, you’re still emotionally unavailable.
When we are a woman that has been habitually engaged in unhealthy relationships, we often make a lot of the problem about ‘him’ even if we acknowledge on various levels that we are part of the equation.
It is not a simple case of booting out an assclown and then SHAZAM, problem solved.
It certainly is not a case of knee-jerking into a relationship with the first guy that treats you half way decently.
We think that the solution is to be with a ‘nice’ guy but yet what happens is that we start taking on assclown traits and persecuting the poor guy because of our relationship history and the negative internal patterns that we subconsciously and consciously move to.
Being with a ‘nice’ guy doesn’t change how YOU feel about YOU.
Just read the comments on the post to recognise this. This in itself is yet another hardcore proof that we have to stop thinking that finding a man who will love us and the relationship that we think we want is the answer to our problems.
You are not going to suddenly feel at one with the universe because a guy comes along and treats you halfway decently.
You are not suddenly going to feel positive about you and relationships because you’re not being bounced around drama central by an assclown and are instead hanging with a ‘nice’ guy.
You are not suddenly going to wash away the years and slot into a ‘normal’ relationship just because you’ve ended it with an assclown and taken up with a nice guy.
You are still falling into the age old trap – Not addressing the issues within that have you feeling negative about yourself, relationships, and love, instead catering to other insecurities and being in a relationship really for the sake of it. It’s like you’re hoping that one day you will wake up and suddenly think ‘Oh, I love him now’.
We have to learn how to confront our issues and learn how to love ourselves before we can even contemplate being in a relationship with someone because at the end of the day, until you do that, whoever you take up with is part of your gravitation to negative patterns.
Many women play The Opposites Game – I went out with an assclown so I’ll find me a super nice guy next time. I went out with a guy who was a financial drain so I’ll look for guys who are financially secure. I went out with a rich guy who couldn’t handle me so I’ll go out with a poorer guy than me. And it goes on and on but you’re missing the point.
I appreciate that some of you may feel that time is short, that you’ve wasted enough time already and yada, yada, but really, would it kill you to put aside a few weeks to a couple of months to invest in you and figure out what is motivating your unhappiness and address it?
Where is the fire?
Because at the end of the day, you are doing more damage to yourself and the new guy by putting you both through the rigmarole of you only having one foot in the relationship because you are dealing with ‘issues’.
Having one foot in the relationship is a sign that you are not ready for the relationship.
If your relationship is relatively new, why does he have to sell the idea of you being with him? Why does he have to take on your old role and now become your armchair psychologist?
It is one thing if you meet a guy after being in a bad relationship and you say ‘I like you, I want to be with you, but I want you to know that I’m not long out of a poor relationship and I don’t want to ruin what I can potentially have with you’.
Two people can discuss their problems but the idea is that something positive comes out of it and you move forward.
If time passes and YOU are not changing how you feel about being in a relationship with him because you subconsciously miss drama and can’t allow yourself to enjoy the relationship, it is time to get up and deal with it instead of falling into your regular pattern of inaction.
Right now, you are ‘settling’ because you don’t trust yourself enough to believe that you can take your time and instead pick a guy who is ‘better than’ your ex.
But you shouldn’t be choosing someone on that basis; get emotionally healthy and you gravitate to healthy relationships that you enjoy.
You don’t trust you, your judgement, your feelings, or the idea of being on your own whilst you sort yourself out. You don’t trust the new guy and what is on offer. In fact, the only thing you do trust is the familiarity of being treated badly. That’s a feeling you know all too well.
So where does that leave you? Well until you do something about it, you’re in limbo land, just like you were when you were in your previous relationships which means it is time to take action and stay committed to dealing with your issues and loving you. Stop avoiding it and deal.
Turn the tables around: Remember when you felt marginalised by your ex throwing you crumbs and making you feel grateful for it? Well now you’re doing it to the new guy. Is this who you want to be?
Your thoughts? Do you know what is holding you back?
If you want to understand your involvement with Mr Unavailable’s and why you have your unhealthy relationship patterns, plus how to move forward, check out my new ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download.
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Very true. It is the hardest thing of all for me to do (was 🙂
Actually look at myself, change my thinking process, how I felt, my habits and begin to like myself and know what that felt like on an ongoing basis.
To really understand the concept of boundaries and self-esteem – and be able to be warm and open and balanced and healthily loving
I haven’t been tested yet by meeting someone I like.
I have easily blown off men where I see the games/b.s. and felt much wiser.
I THINK I’ve changed.
I have yet to KNOW that’s true.
Am I still emotionally unhealthy because I haven’t done enough work yet ? Would I want to date me ?
If I really look at my ‘bad’ qualities brutally honestly, I’d day no – I’m impatient, judgmental, gossipy, ready to run at any excuse before things get off the ground, maybe just a little too content with being alone and not dating, and not very good at compromising.
Once again, you’ve written a great article, NML.
More inner work to do 🙂
Do you know what is holding you back?
A big part of my problems is my mother. She is a narcissist and has always treated me and my sisters badly. I am 48 and she is still trying to control my life. She is needy, selfish, cold and sarcastic. I recognize her traits in the EUM. Subconsciously I must be trying to solve this with feelings buried since childhood. It is painful to realize your mother never loved you… but after much reading I know those painful feelings are from my childhood. Now as an adult I would rather not have anything to do with her but that is not feasible. My family celebrates holidays together and she is there even though she isn’t nice to any of us or our kids or grandkids. We have individually tried to cut contact but then she takes out her anger on the other two sisters…. calling crying and complaining about how horrible we are and how she won’t come to holiday dinner if the “bad” one is there, etc. She makes it so miserable for the ones she is not mad at that we just give in to keep the peace. Cutting her out would mean cutting out my entire family. It is and always has been all about her – just like the EUM. I grew up dealing with her moods, anger and emotional abuse so the EUM feels very familiar to me. When someone is genuinely nice to me I don’t know what to do. I feel uncomfortable and turn away from it. I can’t even accept a gift without giving something back to keep it even. I suppose buried somewhere I fear I am not loveable and it takes a lot of conscious thinking and telling myself my mother was damaged – not me.
My problems with men all relate back to her and how she treated me. She taught me the belief that I wasn’t good enough, wasn’t loveable, wasn’t special…. that I had to do what SHE wanted in order to keep myself safe. We were fed and had the appropriate clothing but she would lock us out of the house, never willing to go out of her way for us – as in driving us to extracurricular activities or having friends over. She whipped us with belts, slapped the crap out of us, told us no one would notice if we were at the party or not. Even now she tries to tell us where to park, where to sit in a restaurant, what to order, what to buy, how to treat our kids and grandkids, how to spend our money, how to have our house. She criticizes my brother-in-law even though he helps her with many things. She calls my grandson a brat… our kids are brats. She doesn’t want anything to do with her grandkids. Geesh… maybe I should move further away from her? I live 30 miles away now. In fact she is not talking to me at this time because I didn’t tell her I filed bankruptcy. It had nothing to do with her but she is mad as hell that I didn’t tell her. No matter what we give her for Christmas she will not like it – guaranteed. It happens every year and she will complain about what a horrible gift she got and usually give it back in a year or so with “Here, you bought this so I’ll give it back to you. I don’t want it.”
So….. I have to heal from her and get to a place where I believe that I deserve to be treated with kindness and respect. I need to teach myself that I am loveable and just as good as everyone else just because I am ME and that I don’t have to always please other people before myself.
Thank you for this site. It has helped me so much. I have been in therapy but I ddin’t like it… this is easier because it is anonymous and easier to say these things. I can’t tell my deepest fears to people I see everyday. The wounds are just too deep.
I always had a name for the nice guys I dated after the assclowns….doormats. I loved the first days/weeks of being treated so well..my self-esteem seemed to go up…then I began acting like the jerk that just dumped me and looking at the nice guy in front of me as a doormat—and after a few weeks I would hate myself and dump him. Reading your post just crystalized everything I have done!
I just walked away from EUM–and it was the hardest thing I’ve done. We had been each other’s high school crushes and found each other after almost 25 years. I was going through a divorce and he said he was in a very unhappy marriage. Of course the early days were great but then the long silences began with me wracking my brains trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. Then I found this site and it was a godsend.
Now that he’s out of my life I know that I have A LOT of thinking, healing, and growing to do before I’m ready for another relationship. Thank you for this site–I means so much to read other people’s stories and know that I am not alone.
I’m coming out of a relationship with an EUM who broke my heart and now I’m just afraid to open up to anyone. Before my EUM I had not dated very much, I was raising my kids, divorced and wanted to focus on them. When I met my EUM it was the first time I had fallen in love in many, many years. He hurt me so much that now I feel closed off. I actually feel numb. I would like to be in a relationship but I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to trust again. That’s my problem in a nutshell. So I guess I’m emotionally unavailable. This just sucks.
I’ve been out on a few dates and keep comparing them to my EUM. I think if I keep at it I wll find the right person but I’m always looking for red flags now, I can’t relax. If I don’t date then I feel lonely and obsess about my EUM, so to keep myself busy I put myself back out there. My EUM relationship has totally messed with my head and I don’t know when I’m going to get over this. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced anything like this is in my life, not even after my divorce.
A book about narcissists says those relationships are so hard to get over because they act in a way that does not make sense to us. When we care about someone we would never do the things they do and we can’t understand their behavior. The book said to realize they are not like you and me. They don’t think like us and don’t have the feelings and empathy we have. We expect people to think and feel like we do. Most people do but not the narcissist.
Myalmostlover—I hear you! I wonder if I am destined to be attracted to/attract EUMs. I feel numb, too. Like a piece of not only my heart, but also my life is gone. I wonder if I’ll have the strength to stay away from my EUM (he has been emailing since I started no contact about 2 weeks ago) or will I go back to being that eager to please Fallback Girl? It scares me–I’m turning 47 in a few weeks and while I don’t mind having time to myself, I would like to be in a relationship with a good man…but I wonder if that’s even possible.
Wonderful. But one question.
HOW do you deal? I mean, HOW do you love yourself? So many people tell us to do it, but no one tells us HOW, really, truly, HOW step by step.
Obviously we are emotional babies, I mean as far as our level of growth, because we keep getting in these stupid situations.
And for most of us, our parents were no help in guiding us. So somehow we must be shown how to love ourselves.
And no, affirmations will not cut it.
Can you write an article, a really true and thoughtful article on this, please?
Kim2……I believe he is a narcissist, because when I think back on our relationship everything was always about him. His needs, his life, his interests. I meet men now that are actually interested in what I like and what I care about and I’m shocked, thinking, “wow, I can’t believe how selfish my EUM really was”. Their weird reality rings a bell also. It’s like living in “bizzaro world” where nothing is as it seems.
ChiTownKitty…..thanks for sharing. I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one that feels numb. The thing is, when I met my EUM I didn’t have much dating experience. I was in a long marriage and then divorced, I dated a little but nothing serious until I met Mr. Headgames. I guess I was pretty naive about EUM’s. I believed what he told me, treated him with respect, loved him completely and had no idea the trap I was falling into. By the time I realized it, it was too late. Then I started accepting bad behavior and it set the tone. Once you let them know by your actions that you’ll forgive the disrespect then they’ve got you. My EUM eventually cheated on me and that moved me to break up with him but it took several bouts of NC.
I don’t have a long history of dating EUM”s, this will definitely be my last. My eyes are opened.
Positive women, positive relationships.
ok…. now what if we can admit that we need to work on ourselves.. HOW do we begin to do that? HOW , by the grace of God.. can we reprogram ourselves and the YEARS of telling ourselves we are not worthy and then following thru by being with emotionally unavailable men… that only VALIDATE that we are not worthy?
how do we begin? THAT is what I’ve been wracking my brain…. I need help on this…
I need tools.. exercises.. homework. I WANT TO BELIEVE I’M WORTHY.. I WANT TO LIVE IN A SUCCESSFUL RELATIONSHIP.. but i don’t know how to start with myself?
help?
Keri – you are exactly right. How do we get to the place where we feel we deserve ahd should have respect? My expectations are so low that I put up with a lot of crap. If I saw my friends doing this I would have no problem telling them they deserve better but I can’t do it for myself. I know I deserve trust, honesty and respect (and to be treated as I treat him) but I don’t trust that I will ever get it. That’s my thing – I think I deserve it and and should have it just but don’t expect to get it. In fact I expect to be disappointed all the time.
Hi Everyone,
Gosh Natalie. You hit the nail on the head so hard with this one I’ve been avoiding sitting down and writing all day.
I identify with everyone who describes themselves as numb after separating from their EUM. I’ve been apart from mine,no contact , haven’t laid eyes on him, for over six months. I’m over him and am very clear that he was a heartless, selfish, smug man who had no regard for me or my kids. I felt degraded, unheard, and embarrassed by him during the two years we were together. He was distant, unemotional and heartless.
He was actually worse than my ex-husband of 25 years. When I think back, which I do daily, I think I had to be with my EUM because he made me finally feel so worthless, so dispicable, that I had no choice but to put my foot down. I instigated the break up but it was so painful, so hard for me and ultimately it was he who refused to make contact and kept the separation real. I felt alone, unlovable, unwanted, and it was so painful for an extremely long time. Of course it coincided with my mom’s death as well as my beloved dog’s death.
So here I am with the “nice guy” in my life. I really see how very EU I am being with this man. For one thing, I am definately “settling”. He is not the one. I am not attracted to him, there is no chemistry. I tried and tried to find chemistry because he is so nice and because how can I not try to be with a guy who is dedicated to pleasing me.
But I honestly find myself recoiling from this people pleasing thing he does. He wants me to decide where to go, what to do, what he should cook, what movie to rent….and the list goes on. Was I this way to my EUM? Yes, I was. But at least I am not using this nice guy to the extent my EUM used me. He actually lived with me, kind of and let me do his cleaning, his cooking, make his lunch, etc. With Nice guy, I am not letting him to all that for me.But I am not telling him the whole truth and I am very unavailable to him.I recognize a place in me that is not ready for a relationship with him or any man right now.
I seriously don’t know if I’d recognize a healthy relationship if it hit me over the head. I don’t think Nice Guy is a healthy relationship. He may be the flip side of a mister unavailable because he never says who he is, or what he wants. He has a huge wimp factor. He comes across as weak, not strong and in control. And hey, I don’t even know what I mean by that.My EUM came across as strong and in control,only for me to find that he was a rigid, controlling asshole.
He tells me I am perfect the way I am, that he loves me. It triggers all those negative feelings in me that I am not perfect, that he should not love me because look how I feel towards him.
He may not be the one. But I am with all you women who say, after a lifetime of believing we are not lovable, how do we change that around??
Sorry this is so long…… its just so on my mind.
You’re right… I think the book is helping me SO much.. I find myself with my highlighter.. lighting up paragraphs and writing notes like “Hello?? Does this sound familiar?” which makes me feel SO much better that I’m not alone in this feeling..
Therapy is helping also… which is good…
But I still remain…. HOW do we undo what initial damage has been done to us and then subsequently.. what we have created to continue on the vicious cycle of feeling UNWORTHY… For me i’m kinda embarrassed to ask such a question.. I mean.. it should be so easy to do.. LOVE YOURSELF. But it’s not. Its easier to tell ourselves we’re not worthy… to wake up in the middle of the night after a dream or a few hours of insomnia.. thinking “Is he missing me right now?” which gives us the Chemical FIX that we are not worthy…
Man… this is like an exorcism.. I SEE that I’ve created this “I’m not worthy” wall.. to keep me safe from rejection and loneliness.. but it’s time the wall comes down and is replaced with health.. vitality.. and SELF LOVE… question is… REALLLY is…
WHERE DO I START?
I started exercising.. and started taking a class… external things that.. to the outside.. look like I love myself.. and that’s all well and good… but for the LIFE of me.. I CANNOT figure out HOW to begin breaking down this wall INSIDE OF ME…
and I REALLY WANT TO!!!
Natalie.. I think you’re going to have to go back to the beginning.. the ABC’s of where we veered off the road.. and explain this to us like we were little children.. Because I’m going to guess that for most of us.. not all.. this feeling unworthy began as children.. and THAT is how we begin to undo this damage.
Does any of this make sense? I will say that the ebook and this website help me tremendously… thank You. But it soothes the burn a while.. but I need to rip out the root of it so I don’t get burned again…
Help. Thanks So Much.
You couldn’t be more right. It took years, and I do mean years, for me to recognize that I was part of the problem. Almost 2 years after beginning my journey, I feel as if I’m ready. I have walked away from relationships which didn’t meet my needs, I know my triggers and my patterns. Life is good. Now it’s just a matter of meeting someone and, in the meantime, continuing my work on myself.
To those who asked where to begin, the answer is with NML’s book. Recognizing you need to make changes is the first step. Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback girl is the next step. Know that it won’t be easy. Know that you will fall back, but if you are determined and really want to change, it can be done.
I was the baby girl of three girls, from what I always hear I should have been spoiled, but I was left behind – it set up the pattern of me feeling unworthy, having to do things to prove that I was worthy, feeling like I deserve things for me is not innate in me.
I agree with you Keri, on the outside I don’t ever show my insecurities. I have a very powerful position at work (proving I’m worthy) I volunteer for children (proving I’m good) take care of myself blah blah blah…..
Each of my major relationships have been with EUM’s. I am now understanding why I never persued the nice guys.
I began therapy, found NML’s book and this website, and starting reading books on self esteem. I have been down similiar paths in my life. getting rid of an EUM to rebuild myself and my so-called confidence to end up with an EUM and have it smashed to pieces again.
This time I will say that it was only three months in till I realized the pattern. And as soon as I did, I started to verbalize my concerns to my friends and they all were incredibly supportive and I broke up the relationship.
I have said that the logic of what I am doing is easier than the emotional part, but I did it sooner and I feel better about myself – FOR ME THAT IS STEP ONE!
Sorta like quitting smoking (for the smokers and now non-smokers out there you can probably relate) while smoking you know it’s wrong, you know all the evils of it and what’s it’s doing to your body, but you don’t think about it while smoking. And then you quit, truly quit and you look back and can’t believe what you were doing to yourself for so long.
It is a scary road. Fear keeps our walls up. I feel vulnerable and my underbelly is showing. I am afraid of what I might find when I truly look at myself, but I am learning to love me unconditionally, like we love others, we accept their foibles, we just can’t accept their bad behavior.
thank you all again for this, it is truly a gift from the universe at a time when I needed it the most to stay strong and on the path. Life is an incredible journey and it’s time for me to find a partner to share it all with!
I agree with what NML is saying. We are definitely the common denominator in our relationships with EUMs.
When my ex-EUM contacts me and I respond, a friend of mine has pointed out that I obviously like it because I respond and continue the communication.
Recently I engaged in conversation with him and as soon as it turns to a romantic or sexual overtone, we are back in the same place of he and I not seeing eye to eye and the only way to resolve the situation is to just ignore him and cut contact. However, if we talk about other things (like work or real estate issues), we are two people having a conversation and act like friends.
My ex-EUM resurfaced at a time when I am spending time with two new men. It’s the early stages, but I am trying to give both a chance. One I just do not feel attracted to. But he is very kind and very interested in me. He would never stoop to the boorish type of behavior that my ex-EUM does.
The other lives a couple hours away and I think he may be an EUM also. I am going to wait for him to initiate the next move because of the red flags I think I have seen. This guy is a gentleman also, but, it could be due to cultural differences or distance, he seems to have a barrier up. It may be too early too tell, but typically my gut is right.
So – I have a couple men somewhat in my life, but neither feel especially “right”. I am hoping that means that neither is the right man for me and I need to keep being good to myself, living my life and I will meet another man who is better suited in the near future.
As for my ex-EUM, he was fired from his job (we work together) last week. Which is why he reached out to me. He is taking it in stride, which is good. It also means, I will probably never see him again. It’s the end of an era for me – and hopefully the start of a new one – free of EUMs.
But – I totally agree. Attraction to EUMs has a lot to do with us. For me, I think I didn’t have enough confidence or esteem to recognize that attention from a guy that isn’t acting honorably ALL of the time – just wasn’t good enough. Additionally, I was very naive in thinking that if I just “hung in there” or communicated – that they would see my side of things and change or come around to acting the way I wanted them too. No way.
We need to be smart. We need to read the signs, interpret them, and act accordingly. Does that mean that we need to force an attraction to a man that we don’t find attractive that treats us well? No. But – at least for me – it means I will at least give it a shot. More than one date. A date is not a marriage proposal. And letting a man down respectfully and easily is something that should be done if it’s not right. I believe in being honest and not just disappearing or leaving calls unreturned or making up lies about why you can’t continue seeing him. If I have to end something, I will simply say, “I think you are a great person, but I don’t see anything further developing between us.”
And then move on with life, all the while being good to myself and others.
These men can be very cruel. I recently heard some things my ex-EUM has said about me. I am blown away. It has been over a year and why he is bad-mouthing me I have no idea. I have done nothing to him, have not contacted him and try to not even be in the same building as him. For the past year I have been hurt, unable to sleep, confused but from what I hear to him it was nothing but a couple of hookups. 1.5 years and all he considers it to be was a couple of hookups. OMG…. this came back to me from mutual friends. He has had two othe women that I know of in the past year. I have remained single and intend to stay that way until I get my head straightened out. I am greatly embarassed to hear these things. Why would he do something like that? He is trying to make me look like a fool but WHY?
Kim2
I can identify-my ex has slept with 7+ women since we broke up-about a 2 years ago. i’ve been with no one. he’s been with 18 year olds!( we’re both 25). so, its a slap in the face-but i really believe they never really entered the relationship with you as a real, committed relationship mindset. they probably never left the scene they’re entertaining right now-as having fun, no commitment, getting what they can while they can because they can. so many men i know are this way. i feel like there is just only one thing to do-that’s to accept it for what it was, and then forget him. pretend he was nothing to you until it feels that way. like fake it until its a real feeling. thats how i deal with the knowledge of the “reality” of our relationship (or lack thereof)!
Hi Wendy,
Your comment struck a nerve with me because I have done in the past almost exactly what you are doing now with a guy who was totally available to me and that I was not attracted to in the least. I also used the same rationale about my unavailability, at “least I am not using him as bad as I was used”. It sounds like you are aware it is unfair to the guy and that you are not ready for a relationship.
I would also guess that your current guy has some issues as well, based on your description of him, and because if you are being unavailable to him, if he was healthy, he would have taken it as a sign to hit the road. Yet it sounds like he is still there despite being aware you are unavailable.
The reason I am responding to your comment is because looking back on what I did before (though I was not aware of it consiously at the time, so I was kind of more of a a***hole about it), it would have been better and kinder of me to end the relationship with the available guy, and to have been alone for a while. But I was scared to be alone at the time. Why? I think because I needed a distraction from looking at myself and my problems, and wanted the reassurance that “someone loves me”.
You cannot force attraction, as I am sure you know. But I truly believe there is a happy medium somewhere with a guy, who can be available and is not a doormat who there will be an attraction to, once we are in a good spot ourselves. I am not at that point now whatsoever. I broke up with my epiphany-inducing EU 6 months ago. I know I am still attracted to EU’s, but I do not want to go through this type of EU relationship EVER again. This is why I am not dating until I resolve my issues. But how to go about doing this is what I am struggling with now. After a lifetime of habits and beliefs, how do we change all this?
I also wonder how I am going to ever have a good level of esteem and attract and be attracted to a healthy guy. I am scared sometimes it might never happen for me. It would really help if Natalie wrote something about this issue, because this it what it all comes down to, changing ourselves. There’s the concrete things we can do to take care of ourselves, which are all good, but what do we do to really make ourselves emotionally healthy?
Like Natalie said in her ebook, I think alot of the internal change has to come from going back to when we were children and examining how we got messed up emotionally by our families, and actually going back and feeling these hurts. Easier said than done though. It’s actually something that I have been procrastinating doing because I am afraid to. In my situation, I know intellectually what happened with my family was messed up, but have yet to revisit it and feel anything emotionally about it.
Part of why I stayed with my last EUM so long was because I know I have emotional availability issues myself. I know it will be almost impossible to have a normal healthy relationship with someone who isn’t EU. I guess I figured two EU people belong together. We could just have a very simple relationship with no emotional ties, just get together once in a while with no real connection. But I couldn’t do it. I kept wanting more. I can’t fight that natural desire to share my entire life with someone. I hope I get the chance to do this someday!
Wendy……I completely identify with what you’re saying.. I just had to let a very nice guy go because I’m not attracted to him. I felt bad but I didn’t want to string him along, like some EUMs do with us.
The thing that strikes me about all of our situations is that we don’t seem to have any trouble finding EUM’s but a lot of trouble finding a nice guy that we’re attracted to. I know I’m having this problem. I’ve met a few guys I found interesting but find out fairly quickly that they have EUM qualities. For instance…I just met a guy a couple of weeks ago and thought he had potential. Then he turns around and flakes out on me. Doesn’t call when he says he will, instead calls in the middle of the night. Of course I didn’t answer but WTF??? After that late night call I haven’t heard from him, so I have to scratch him off… even though he’s very attractive physically and mentally BUT I’m at the point if a man shows ANY disrespect, he’s off my list. OTOH, I have guys contacting me on dating sites that I’m not attracted too but are very nice and want to date me. So the problem I’m having is finding a man that I’m attracted to that’s also decent and has the qualities of availability. That’s the problem I’m having and also dealing with the baggage my ex-EUM left me with.
Meanwhile my ex-EUM is having women throwing themselves at him. But then I’m wondering are these women the equivalent of the men that I won’t date because I’m not attracted to them? Is my ex just taking advantage of women that have no self esteem and are just doormats?. Is that what I was? Is that how he saw me? He has the narcissistic harem that worship him but he probably doesn’t give a flying F about any of them, except to use for his own selfish needs. It’s all starting to become very clear.
Hi everyone,
I have a feeling that there are only a few types of women who get involved with our ex-EUM. One is the normal healthy woman who goes out with him, figures him out, and dumps him quickly. If she had sex with him she regrets it and moves on. (wish that had been me with mine…) The next type is a different type of EUW who is not the Fallback Girl type like we might be.
Get this.My ex- EUM spent a very long time with me cryiing over the woman who broke his heart. And this was not his ex-wife of 12 years and the mother of his two kids. This was some woman he met on line a couple of years after his divorce. They dated for 4 months. What he told me about her was that he adored her, that he was super attracted to her, and that he was willing to do everything and anything for her to win her.. Eventually she wanted money and had he had it, he’d have given it, but he didn’t have enough to support her so she dumped him.
When I met him, a full year after that break up, he was still missing her. We met in August. That winter, that NYEve, he and I went away to this gorgeous winter resort, super romantic. Guess what we did on NYE? I swear this is true. He cried about her to me.He cried tears. He missed her so much. Did I dump him?Of course not. That May, a few days before his birthday, he tells me she had called him and he had taken the call when he was at my house. I didn’t know at the time. He actually told me I should wait while he goes to see her and see if they could work things out. I did! She didn’t want him so he came back to me and I,, like the utter loser,, took him back. That summer, he and I went to europe on vacation together. When we came back, 3 weeks later, I paid for 2/3 of trip, he told me he wasn’t head over heels in love with me.
When we broke up,he looked me in the eyes and said he never really “got there” with me. He was always hung up on this woman, even though he and I were sorta living together for 18 months.
So she is type he wanted. Very emotionally unavailable, but in a way totally different from us. She led him on,used him, and left him,and he couldn’t get over it. I am guessing if she let him have her, he’d have dumped her. Sooner or later.
I don’t know how to get over my issues either.I have journalled about my emotionally abusive dad, my emotionally unavailable mom, and I’m still stuck in all this crap.
Its truly hard.
Wendy
wendy levy, You said “So here I am with the “nice guy†in my life. ”
I imagine if you could meet his parents and his brothers and sisters, you could understand why he is the way he is – and why he may have picked you. I am guessing you fit the role someone important in his life has played.
Then, too, many guys never learn to live, especially not with a girl. They start to learn the childish games middle school and high school girls play with their dates. They learn that they are to be courteous, that they are there on sufferance, and anything they do that irritates their date will end the relationship.
This may or may not have anything to do with being emotionally available. Being willing to live with this ‘just visiting’ model of relationship, though, sure seems to be a sign of low self-esteem.
So, other than allowing him to remain in your company, how have you be assuring him that you value him, his presence, and his values?
When you aren’t sure where you want to go, there are a couple of sure things to try. One is talking to him, if he is ready to deal with that kind of issue in a way that is meaningful to you. Another is to seek assistance from someone you trust – a pastor, a counselor, a trusted friend (a trusted friend will be the Designated Driver, and you *know* there will be no messing about with her and drinking; someone that won’t gossip, ever). You have already started to reach for assistance, by posting here. That was the *easy* part! Now all you have to do is decide which parts matter, what they mean to you, and how you will change to heal and grow.
If you do start valuing who he is, and his self esteem begins to heal – be warned. He will likely ‘reward’ your efforts by being objecting to your “shortcomings”. How you respond to that will determine whether you grow in the relationship, or end it. Once you start healing and growing, there is no knowing where you will end up, and no turning back. Scary stuff, indeed.
You could practice taking a minute (by the clock) before responding to anything that feels hurtful – and considering why you feel hurt.
I think there is a mysticism to “chemistry” that is part fiction. I think chemistry – the body’s hormonal reactions that drive us to perpetuate the species – is often quite subtle. And in it’s non-explosive, “mature” form, is usually “comforting”.
Part of the excitement of meeting someone new, someone passionate, someone ‘exciting’ has to do with fear and adventure (flirting with danger). Instead of lamenting the thrill and risk and danger that spiced up the early part of a relationship, I think a healthy relationship should *expect* to outlast the Grand Adventure stuff. A quiet delight in ourselves and each other should be the goal, not something to dread or signal the end of anything meaningful.
Perhaps you don’t find the chemistry, now, because you despise him for accepting you – a problem of your own self-esteem. Perhaps being aware of his needs and being responsible and disciplined on your part will be more than enough to begin restoring your own self worth and maybe even the chemistry.
Blessed be!
I know I am a big part of the problem:
1) I don’t leave these relationships when they start to hurt me.
2)I irrationally love and commit to guys who don’t deserve me.
3) I feel more comfortable with men who are not that into me.
4) I submit to sexually aggressive men and tend to put non aggressive, respectful men into the “friend zone”
5) As I have gotten older, I have become something of a player.
I look at me. I am a mess. I need to get stronger for myself. I put up with too much crap. I don’t pick my men well. I don’t stand up for myself. I commit to guys
who are just using me.
I don’t know how to have a healthy relationship. I have never been in one. My parents did not have one and remained married even though they were quite obviously miserable. That is probably why I stay in unhealthy relationships too long.
I am seriously thinking of becoming a nun.
I don’t know if it’s the same for everyone but I’m happy to share the tiny steps I’ve started to take in order to love myself. I would be happy if they can help anyone out there. For weeks I thought how do I start loving myself, how do I fall in love with myself? Like, PRACTICALLY?
a) do things YOU like, you like art ? go to a museum; you like sport? go watch a game; you like cinema, theatre, books, fashion? you got the point. a lots of things can be done for free or very very cheapily. join a bookgroup, a knitting group, a running group. go to a free museum, a free gig etc
b) do things YOU are good at. are you a good cook? schedule a dinner for your friends once a month. do you like knitting? make a scarf or a hat for one of your girlfriends or for yourself, for a niece or a nephew or even for charity
c) do things that make YOU feel good about yourself, dedicate time to your true friends, to your family, or if you prefer dedicate time to charity work: spare four hours a week volunteering as a shop assistant in a charity shop.
d) BE ALWAYS WELL GROOMED. stick a picture of Audrey Hepburn next to your bathroom mirror believe me it makes all the difference in the world. I’m not talking about anything out of this world: just look after your body and not just your mind. get a proper haircut and keep it tidy. look after your hair, your teeth, your eyes, moisturise your skin. check your hands and nail are always clean. chose clothes that fit well and make you feel good everyday and not just for special occasion EVERY DAY.
e) invest in a small ipod: load it with YOUR favourite upbeat music and listen to it on your way to and from work.
It might sounds lame but things things are helping me a lot. The important things is that you do them constantly and stick to them like a job. LOVING YOURSELF should be a fulltime commitment.
To add to Nilondoner’s list:
f) If you haven’t already, begin thinking about the influences in your childhood that contributed to your attraction to EUMs (emotionally absent parents/guardians/etc). Something that truly helped me start loving myself: write a letter in which you explain to that person, or those people, how their actions or lack of emotional support injured you. Tell them that although you are responsible for your own actions, because they were a major influence in your childhood, they contributed greatly to your current issues.
This activity is not about placing all the blame on mom or dad. It’s about vocalizing how you feel to someone you care about. Wasn’t that one of the issues with your EUM? I know it was for me. Whether you mail the letter, or email, or not is up to you. From my own experience, it was the best thing I ever did. I am now working with my father on cultivating a closer, more emotionally-involved relationship. I can’t say he wasn’t hurt by the letter, but he did realize why he wasn’t nearly as close to me as my mom. If all of our issues started with that one person, why not start there?
Consider that some of what makes a well-balanced personality happens in groups, too. Maybe a hatha (introductory) Yoga class (improve strength, flexibility – and manage pain – prepare to the body for spiritual growth). A church choir, a bowling league. A chance to interact with healthy and happy people, escape from an endlessly intense environment. Maybe a card club or quilting circle. Water-walking at the YMCA/YWCA (practice walking *in* the water – good mild exercise – not the more spiritually or metaphysically inclined walking *on* water.) Maybe a part time job in a pleasant, public job – working at a movie theater or a swimming pool.
Be moderately active (take the stairs, park at the far edge of the parking lot, bicycle, etc.), Eat sensibly, establish a good daily and sleep routine, get plenty of rest (seven hours, twenty minutes seems to be the goal, maybe a 20 minute nap after lunch) – all the routine lifestyle de-stressors! Write out your schedule, update each day, note what went well, what was a trial.
List out each and every bit that made you angry. Or hurt, or helpless, or humiliated. Consider what it was in your self image that caused you to feel anger, or pain, or shame.
List out each and every bit about drew you do him. Identify which aspects were character, which physical, which were masks he wore to make himself more attractive – and which managed to hide things from you. Consider how he was like the guy before, how he was like your parents or other authority figures in your life.
List out why you are alone, why you still frequent the places that are similar to where you met your problem guy, or the kind of places your parents hang out. Figure out something healthier to do with your social and community time and energy.
Expect that you will over-react to each and every single ‘red flag’ that you discover. It will take time, and contact with people, to realize that every guy that wears a sapphire earring in the left ear isn’t going to abuse you. (Although, meeting guys with earrings, and inebriated, at rock concert back doors might be a useful mantra.) Do list out your red flags, and date each entry. And don’t use any of them that are fresher than two to four months. It takes time and consideration to work out the relationship between the first idea for a ‘I gotta avoid guys with ..’ and a good, useful, dependable strategy “I gotta hang around healthy people” – “I gotta have good women friends or I will be winging it alone when I start falling for another guy.”
I understand Dale Carengie’s “How To Win Friends and Influence People” can be a good start on changing your perspective and how people relate to you.
If affirmations don’t help so much – consider planning how to build more respect and honesty and discipline into your life. Each day deliberately choose to do something more respectfully than before, or more honestly, or in a more disciplined (discipline: will to complete a task) manner. Be more respectful not just to others, but toward yourself as well. Be courteous as well as honest.
Practice asking others for help, and be alert for ways to assist others (when help is wanted). Work on selflessness – helping without expectation of encouragement or thanks. Work on securing what you need, taking care of yourself first. Encourage, nurture, and thank others.
Learn to read body language, and be aware of what your expressions, body positions, hesitations say that you might not be aware of. Wear shoes that provide good foot and body support (shoes can cause knee and back pain) while recovering. Remember running shoes are made to last about 50 miles – which might be a month or less for an avid runner. Be alert to the function of shoes for your feet.
And, yes, some of this has helped me (yoga, lol!).
Luck!
Brad, Thanks for some of your thoughts you posted. Check this scenario. I had a root canal this afternoon and took valium. I told him when I got home I would just prefer resting with my dog on the couch and being left alone. He called me not once, not twice but three times tonight to see if there was anything he could do to help me. Now I had already told him that all I wanted was to rest and be left alone with my CDs and my book and be quiet. But no. Three times. And he says it like this”I’d love to come over and bring something to make you feel better.” Or, “What can I do to make you feel better” “Can I bring you some juice, or ice cream” This is over many phone calls from him. And each of those calls, each of those conversations, make my skin crawl more. I just want to get away from him. Not be with him. I never said I love and or care for him and his values. He could be attractive to me if he came across as someone in control, someone grounded and aware of himself, but he is a people pleaser and I see that as someone who is emotionally vacant.
Tell me everyone, am I totally off the wall here?????
So, I’m one of these “nice guys” everyone is talking about that is attracted to a woman who is trying to get over a bad relationship a few years ago. She is almost exactly like how some of you guys have described yourselves. Not really willing to take a chance on a potentially great relationship because she is scared. She has told me and some mutual friends that I am too good for her and she doesn’t think she would treat me good enough if we dated.
I think she’s attracted to me. I mean, she’s told me she is. She has told me that she sees me as a confident, self-assured person. I’d like to think that she’s being honest with me. But I don’t know. I mean, the truth is I’m quite insecure sometimes, but I’m good at hiding it I guess. And maybe she doesn’t see that.
My question to you guys is, what can I, as the nice guy who wants to date her, do to get her to open up some to the idea of dating me? Lately, when hanging out with our friends she has been saying things like “No one will ever love me” and talking about how she doesn’t have anybody, etc. Should I make a move? I haven’t really been very, um, aggressive physically. Meaning, I haven’t tried to “make a move on her”. Haven’t tried to kiss her, etc. We’ve been hanging out more lately. Just the two of us. And it feels like I should be pro-active. I feel like I kinda have nothing to lose and that I should just go for it. Is this completely stupid?
Jonathan..
Honey the reason why we are here writing to help us feel better and not feel alone is because this is initially not about the emotionally unavailable men.. but how we started the relationship by not really loving ourselves..
She’s not ready for a relationship. She cannot give you what you ultimately are wanting.
I know this SUCKS… trust me and trust us.. It hurts so bad when you don’t feel reciprocal feelings .. but on the flip side… why don’t you take the time and really figure out how you can be the best you.. so you will then ATTRACT someone who is ready for a marvelous relationship.
I predict that if you keep going down this road.. you will.. more and more.. be able to relate to what we are all saying. about our Emotionally Unavailable Male.. except it will be female. Again I say it doesn’t make it easy… but it’s better to face this now.. than after you’ve gotten intimate.. and your feelings are that much more intense.
Sorry to say this… I think we here all feel if we loved ourselves more.. we wouldn’t of even gotten to date three.. SEE the red flags and then act on them.
You can tell her that it seems that she is not ready for a relationship and that you would love the chance to get to know her once she is ready. It doesn’t have to be mean… I’m sure she’ll respect you even more for doing it. You might be a catalyst for her wanting to heal herself.. who knows.. again.. .this is hard to do.. but the most important things in life usually are.. unfortunately.
Myalmostlover- I haven’t been able to find anyone but you on here. How have you been?? I read your last post and don’t worry about the girls that are throwing themselves at your EUM. I, of course, thought my EUM was with the love of his life and she was probably perfect and he would marry her. He’s an EUM and none of those relationships will last. I got the dreaded text from my EUM 2 weeks ago after 7 months NC!!!! He said “you can officially say I told you so. The women out there are whacked. I truely hope you found a man that appreciates you. Blah, blah, Sorry.” So, I’m assuming he got dumped and was fishing to see if I had someone or was still his fallback girl. So, don’t think that their lives are wonderful and turn out the way they and we think they will. It is very hard to move on. I have a really great guy in my life right now as a friend. I don’t really know how I feel about him yet. Time will tell.
Hey ladies just read this article. And I seriously believe my ex g/f fell in this category. We had been together for two years. I met her when i was 23 she 17 and we were basically good our first year. Though she had alot of problem coming into our relationship. Our relationship was most definitely a rebound one, where i had to constantly adjust myself for her because she had not resolved her past relationship properly. The guy was a total jerk to her and it honestly seemed like all the things he did to her she didn’t want it to be done with us. She was looking for the opposite of what he was. She is also what i say from a broken home. A single child having to see her parents separate and having her father betray her. I did everything for this girl basically i gave my best while looking at it from a realistic point of view. Basically our last year was a disaster. She met up with an old ex b/f and put me through two weeks of hell. Then I got sick with a tumor in my spine and so on. I couldn’t walk or feel anything. Going from hospital to hospital. She was by my side but it also did feel like she was unhappy with everything happening. She was always snapping at me and having mood swings and constantly telling me that the problem was not me and doing it even in public places. When i resumed my life, I did so witha full plate I went to college and worked. She was a teacher for awhile. Time was a serious problem for us. My grandmom disrespected her twice in front of me and i know she did not like that. But the whole thing is she says i wasn’t there for her when she needed me. But what she refuses to understand and has openly admitted to me is we hardly had time to spare for the both of us. I made sacrifices. All the times she did tell me about feeling distant and i reciprocate all of that and tell i noticed it too and we tried scheduling around it. But she is like convincing herself i did nothing. This woman even went as far to tell me she could deal with my situation. Because she could not handle the emotions that come with death and so what she does it get out of the situation. Man she bailed on me when i needed her most. I had two surgeries and fighting with school and work. When i thought she had my back it seemed she was distancing herself from me for petty things. She had been treating badly for awhile. One time she good next time she cold. We did eventually break up. But honestly I can’t understand why she so angry and upset with me for things she knows i didn’t do.. She has openly admitted to me that i have done nothing wrong to her but yet still says i hurt her and i can’t be trusted with her heart. We do have clashing traits but that cannot be the sole reason for her actions. I grew tired of making excuses for her. She did tell me she is emotionally unhealthy and that she tried making herself happy by going out with friends, shopping and even turning to me and nothing helped. She even went as far to tell me she don’t feel loved by her own mom. It just seemed like she wanted an excuse out of the relationship. She considered me to be her close friend. But consistently treated me like shate and took me for granted. The moment i put my foot down and i told her how she made me feel. She was the most hurt person out. Telling me i made her feel like a bad person and that it hurt her that i couldn’t understand all what she had to deal with. I felt like i was the available target to pass the blame onto. She even once told me her mom makes her feel like it is wrong to feel the way she did about me and that she always has to please her in order to be happy. It’s like she can’t make her own decisions but follows her moms. Her mom always makes her feel like her decisions aren’t the best ones. Right now to me it looks like she is living in the shadow of her mom. But I tried reasoning with her with alot of things and she made her decision. I hate what she did to me cause she was my best friend. But I really am sorry for what a manipulative man can do to her later on in life. Her self esteem is seriously low. She is a seriously attractive woman but bases her happiness on the attention of guys. I spoke to her on many levels before the break up but her head hard she won’t listen and she things i know everything. Anyone want to add anything to what she maybe going through. I also thing she has not let go of the situation with her father betraying her trust and withholding the love and affection he used to give her.
Blaze, You said, “..I did everything for this girl basically i gave my best while looking at it from a realistic point of view..”
Let me summarize a bit. You picked a hurting, insecure child for a what? Mate? Sex adventure? Date? Someone that was expected to be grateful for the rescue, someone it would be simple to be the hero for.
Someone you did not respect as an equal, healthy partner. This isn’t about her state, but about who you picked. And why you made that choice.
You say you *witnessed* your family disrespect her. You did *not* say how you resolved an open attack on someone that should have expected your assistance and support. If you had been a mate to her, you should have seen a choice at that moment in time – the first attack, that is – to get your family to express remorse and regret for the attack, and then an apology, and an expression of respect – or you should have left your so-called disrespectful family for your chosen mate. We are expected to defend those we love.
When you saw problems in your relationship, as the one six years senior and supposedly with six years more life experience – how did you go about improving communication, understanding your partner’s wants and problems and goals and dissatisfactions?
Whatever problems hampered her, you still emerged from the relationship with a discernible lack of respect for yourself and for her, and there is still the question of why you picked a wounded child to be a companion.
Sorry to sound harsh, but you already answered the question you asked – she was hurt when you met, she stuck out a relationship with your disrespect hanging all over everyone for a couple of years, she gave a year of signals she needed more of you, of your respect and care, that no one seemed to honor or acknowledge.
Without having met her, I imagine she took very little pleasure in causing you confusion or hurt or disappointment. I doubt any of it was intentional, just a hurting soul trying to do the best she could.
Brad – I honestly believe you misunderstood everything. How could i have been there for someone when I couldn’t walk, couldn’t feel half of my body, was out of a job and my life stopped for 6 months, and in and out of hospitals within that period. How could I have been there for someone that much, when i resumed my life I went back to college and was working full time as well. And sorry if i did leave it out. I did make many sacrifices as for time and my attention.
Disrespected myself and her and not standing up for her you say. I stood up too my peoples while she was there and i have done it front of her on many occasions. She was more than aware of those things. The year of signals you asking about couldn’t possibly work out. Did you just want me to magically snap my fingers and not be ill with tumors and cancer, did you want me to not go for two major surgeries, did you not want me to go school, did you not want me to be constantly worrying if the tumors would spread and something major would happen to me?
Honestly, defending someone based on selfish desires seems to really off to me. And for the year of signals you spoke of, you can’t be possibly talking about the year while i was sick. Cause if i do remember she did have more than my attention and affection in our first year. She did basically what many women do and that is run when things get tough. Prefer a situation that perfect without fault or trial.
You spoke also about improving communication. My ex like some people can’t quite communicated properly in person. If it were done through writing down what she wants to convey or IM she can do it fine. We had been working on that in our first year and I was certain she was getting over it but I was mistaken. Because I found myself asking I mostly everyday what was wrong with her and her responses were always nothing and sometimes pieces of info her and there.
This girl knew the lengths I went through to atleast sustain the relationship and make her happy when i could. There was lack of understanding and compassion on her part. Her maturity and self esteem was seriously lacking.
Our relationship got a hit by a huge test. I could understand she said I was her world and seeing and thinking I would die is something she can’t handle. But if it were her would I have bailed out on her as a friend?
Man I am upset and your response yes but honestly if you have a full plate and your mate can’t understand that and puts herself or himself before you or not meeting some form of compromise. Then something just isn’t right.
Blaze, I meant “being there” as being there for what she needed. Nothing that you or I do really matters, no matter how much energy we put into it, unless it meets someone’s needs. I can set myself a goal to read four SF novels in the next seven days, and I can meet that goal, through dedication to my goal, through effort, through sacrifice. And if my mate didn’t need me to read those four novels – I not only wasted my effort, I likely irritated her by my ignoring her needs for my ‘goal’. Being there is not about how much effort you expend, it is about learning *what* your partner’s needs are, and meeting them. Often the difference between being there and lack of communication is a few words, a smile – understanding. Acknowledging and supporting – nurturing. Informed respect.
If you were under medical care at the time, you surely understand the concept of getting skilled help. When you don’t understand your partner, you have the option of asking her, of asking your parents or friends for help – and elevating to counselors or pastor so you can *learn* how to understand others.
Maybe she did run when things got tough. Maybe she stayed longer than she should have, because things got tough – many people will. I wasn’t there, so I don’t know her thinking, or the situation.
There is something that you still aren’t seeing, and I expect that my words won’t help any – you will, eventually, have to hear it from yourself before it becomes real. You still aren’t sure just what a healthy relationship is, and you didn’t pick someone likely to be a good mate for you, And the reason you picked the wrong person is you, not the people available, or that all women are like that.
Most of the visitors here are at Baggage Reclaim because they picked a partner that was unable to to form a healthy, long term relationship. Often abusive, manipulative, liars, deceptive, disrespectful – emotionally unavailable. The real problem most of us struggle with, here, is that not all people are like that – but we keep picking them. *We* keep picking them. We pick the ‘easy’ ones, the ones that need ‘rescue’ or ‘fixing’ or the attractive predators. And we keep running into a wall, thinking our partner will change, will become ‘better’ for us. And we keep picking other partners that are ‘opposite’ of some meaningless ‘warning flag’ – but are still the same unhealthy character we picked before.
The world won’t change, our partners won’t change. The only thing we have any control over is ourselves. And until we change our attraction to the wrong people, we won’t change. We won’t heal, and have a chance at a better relationship, with a good mate-prospect.
About “Then something just isn’t right.”, a mate is more responsibility than asset. Neither you nor I can control whether she will be there for you when you need someone – but you can alway focus on being there for her. You are expressing a lot of anger and, it seems, denial, about your relationship. Yes, your relationship was hit by a huge test – but was the test to the relationship your withdrawal and focus on your illness, or by your illness? That is, did you pass your test in your relationship to her?
I happen to think that in relationships we often get distracted by the details. The details are important, but there are some fundamentals that have to be there, first. I believe that love is never ‘forever’. It only lasts as long as neither partner asks, “Do I really want to be here?” And I believe it is our responsibility to avoid making our partner ask that question. Because after so long, an answer of “No, not really.” will turn to “No, and I have to get away.” By the time we leave, the moment of decision was usually long past. And the reason that the choice to leave wasn’t noticed in time – is the reason for leaving. The words said at parting are not about the ended relationship, they are about building the future.
I lost a wife by going to college. On her way out the door she let me know that school terrified her, and she couldn’t handle being close to someone actively learning. College is not comparable to cancer – but there are a lot more well-adjusted, healthy people with issues about medicine, doctors, hospitals, and cancer. If we can’t pick up on our partner’s discomfort and fears and needs, we lose.
Luck.
Today I met my sister in law, who is married to my EUB (emotional unavailable brother). I always wondered why she was with him, because she seemed to come from a different background than I did. Today I found out.
I had an emotional unavailable father and a very critical mother. My sister in law was taught by her parents that she had to solve everything on her own. Probably to “help” her become independent. However for an eight year old not a very appropriate strategy.
In her adult life she has choosen my brother, where she can safely hold on to her strategy of “doing everything alone”.
So I doubt that having no or low self esteem is the only reason that we keep on falling for EUM’s. She has her issues though. But ne day you will have enough self esteem and still find yourself in EU-relationships. I think that’s because of habit. You became customized to a certain approach and the difficulty is to expect to get more for yourself and also to be able to accept a nice approach. Often we are our own saboteurs…
We have to break with the habit of picking a guy where we feel “at home”.I have noticed a specific feeling that I get when I’m with an EUM. Something in my stomach that is a mixture of anxiety and happiness. When I feel this feeling I thought I was on the right track. Now I know that I have to run at that moment, because this feeling is fooling me.
Estelle… Brava Brava Brava.. I couldn’t have said it better myself… That “at home” feeling.. where we are so used to NOT getting what we really want.. but it’s become familiar.. We don’t know any other way… so it’s us clinging to our security blanket.. even though we “know” that carrying a security blanket in our 30’s 40’s.. might not be the most healthy thing…
I think it’s just a case of constantly checking in with ourselves. Like the woman who can eat anything and not gain an ounce…. it’s just one gift she’s been given.. she doesn’t have to think about it. But for most of us.. if we want to live a healthy life.. we just have to bring more awareness to what we put in our mouths… We have to focus on the fact that we have been blessed with OTHER gifts.. I’d probably bet that EVERY one of you.. even though you are struggling with your relationships… Because of this sensitivity to wanting to make people happy (even when they don’t deserve it) you have wonderful friendships.. and genuine ability to appreciate life in it’s everyday beauty… would you say? Most of you probably are Empaths.. where you can make others feel the way you feel.. and vice versa.. YOU can take on others feelings very easily. Does this resonate?
It’s about gifts.. so Yea Yea.. we weren’t blessed with a gift of discrimation toward what is healthy for us in our relationships… I’m SURE each of you can say five or more things that you DO have going for you…
So yea.. it’s self love… facing our low self esteem in relationships.. our pasts with respect to our parents..etc.. but also Focusing on where we ARE prospering.. and living in abundance.
Dare I say… As you think so shall you be. So FOCUS on what you want.. instead of what you don’t. (If you haven’t seen “The Secret”… I highly recommend it!)
Have a great day!
Thank you Keri. After my divorce I’ve done so many things to gain more self appreciation. I thought, my married friends did not do these things, I did a lot more than they ever will, so my self esteem meanwhile must be OK .
Howcome I still date assclowns? It must be because I don’t know any better. So with future dates I at first will check out if they are able to care about me and will show it by doing this for me. I’ve grown accustomed to doing almost everything on my own, I’m going to expect my partner to actually particpate in my life, be there and do things.
Does that make any sense?
Estelle makes total sense.. Some things we are getting our masters degree in.. it’s easy and we don’t need to study too much for it.. Others.. we are in 2nd Grade and THAT IS OK!!! The only competition we are in is with ourselves. We do not give ourselves enough credit (because we didn’t get “credit” from our parents growing up probably) and dont know how to actually..
My thought is to make a list..and put it in your purse on a date.. keep checking it to see if it vibes with what you are wanting. It might take a date or two.. that’s ok too. Say by 3 dates you should have a good idea..
It’s OK to all of us fallback girls. HOW can we be expected to know what to do when all we know is that which doesn’t serve us. Have to go back to 2nd grade.. and learn it all over.. takes time and patience but ask yourself how much do you want it?
And trust me.. I’m in the SAME boat. I am NOT saying any of this because I have it figured out.. But I love myself enough to WANT to figure it out and work HARD on myself.
Again.. Kinda like watching what you eat.. If you grew up eating a full plate and afterward feeling disgusting.. you have thrown off your “thermostat” for how much your stomach can handle.
When you don’t eat as much.. you don’t feel full.. at first you have to just to stop eating even though you want more. At first it’ll seem like a challenge.. “wait.. i’m still hungry”.. you have to reset your thermostat And SLOW DOWN your eating.. give your stomach time to catch up.
Eventually much less food will satisfy you.. and you’ll feel fuller earlier.
I think the same goes with relationships.. especially with us fallback girls.. we dive in… throw down all of our cards.. and “dig in” even though the food doesn’t taste necessarily good and by the time we realize it.. we’re stuffed and feel disgusting. SLOW DOWN.. enjoy every bite.. TASTE it and see if it even tastes good..
Eventually you’ll be fuller faster.. and probably eat more quality foods.
Does this make sense?
Estelle, I was in a situation sort of like your sister in law but I think it did cause me to have very low self esteem. My dad was very remote and unavailable, very critical. And my mom was extremely passive. I too learned I had to do figure life out by myself and ultimately chose men who were UEM because I had no idea how to include someone into my life in an intimate way.
You know what I thought of when you wrote the “comfort” or the attraction of being with an EUM is the combination of anxiety and happiness? I know that one SO well! I think thats the feeling inside of me that causes me to know, there will be drama and/or excitement.
I recently reconnected with a guy I’ve known a while, he is long distance so we met for a weekend half way. He is very mentally/intelligently attractive to me, physically too. Sex was great.
He told me I was “the one” and he wanted to be with me forever, and all that crap. The next week he barely took my calls, kept saying he’d call but didnt. Then he e-mailed and wrote he had made reservations again for the following weekend. I knew absolutely right away in my gut. he was one of “them”. So I ended it. He was shocked.
I’m now thinking the anxiety/happiness, or whatever that feeling is inside of us, could be our guts sending us red flags. I didn’t even take the time to explain it to him, I just said no.
I am even taking a second look at the nice guy I’ve been with… he is looking better. he is really really trying to deal with his issues and its helping create chemistry.
I think Keri is so exactly right- we, or I, just have to slow down.
Wendy Levy, you asked earlier, “he is a people pleaser and I see that as someone who is emotionally vacant. Tell me everyone, am I totally off the wall here?”
I could feel the anger and frustration as you described his repeated calls and refusal to leave you the heck alone when you asked.
What I think is that he ignored your ability to decide what you want. He steam rolled over your needs, looking at everything in terms of what he could fix. That sounds like classic low self-esteem, he is fixated on himself so much he never notices others. His calls were a major act of disrespect. Besides being rude, to ignore your ‘don’t bother me’ request, he placed himself first – it was more important to him to be ‘the fixer’ or as you called him the crowd pleaser, as I say is was more important to him that he ‘look good’ than any needs or problems or wish to retreat for a while. The first call of the three was a major mistake – but the following calls were serious, deliberate impositions on you, and were breaches of trust.
This was no mere ‘but I just called to see if I could help’ – this was creepy and disrespectful and manipulative. Congratulations on recognizing that he was the one at (grievous) fault. No means no, even if it isn’t about sex. Each time and every time.
I’m far too familar with what you are talking about with being so much more comfortable with the crumbs — and looking everywhere else for the answers to why I was attracting this, until I made a committment to learning about myself and finally can take 100% responsibility for my choices, some compassionately. I didn’t trust in my judgements, perceptions, etc… so how in the heck could I be in a relationship when I wasn’t in a healthy one with myself? I think the pain/pleasure feeling is when you finally understand this it’s a relief, but when you think back it’s such a shame that we were unaware of this for as long as we were.
Hey Gina,
Thanks for going back and finding this post, I hadn’t read it.
No Problem Gail!
To Kim2 (October 11th, 2008, 3:47 pm)
OMG, reading your comments felt as if I was reading about my life. I can’t believe how exactly the same your experiences are to mine. It made me feel so much better, finally validated for what I thought all along as a child. That my mother was the crazy, sick one, that she was wrong, that how she was treating me was soooo wrong, hurtful, cold and cruel, and lastly, why didn’t she love me? Why did she think something was wrong with me that made me so unlovable?
Being powerless as a child, I ended up learning this bad behavior and belief system and adopted it into my own life in order to survive this unhealthy environment and b/c I didn’t know anything else. I had never seen what a healthy relationship looks like. So, it’s no wonder I ended up with someone who shared similar characteristics as her. I think on some level I was still trying to resolve things with her (and my father, a narcissist), through someone else. Like saying, “LOVE ME DAMN IT!!! Trying to convince him (and her and my father when I was a child) over and over and over again to get the same shitty behavior in return.
Now I’m trying to break this unhealthy cycle so that maybe I can have a normal life one day. This site is really opening my eyes to MYSELF, my childhood, my past, my feelings, my thought process. I too went to therapists and it didn’t help AT ALL. It’s a flawed system for many reasons. I think you’re right, anonymity is crucial to the healing process. We need a SAFE PLACE to air out all this build up crap where it’s not going to be used against us, where their is no fear that people we know will find out and look at us differently, or treat us badly b/c of it.
So THANK YOU, all you posters, and the author. I read all of it and it’s tremendously helpful.
The important thing is that I’m finally on the road to recovery and I’m hopeful about my romantic future for the first time in my life, and in a realistic way, not the usual illusions and fantasies. Glad to be getting rid of those, they didn’t serve me anyway. I want something that’s real and that’s healthy and I finally realize that I have to deal with MY issues and get to the root of what going on with ME. I’m starting to do just that and I’m already starting to see some changes occur w/in myself, like noticing Red Flags in potential romantic relationships for the first time. I can’t believe how completely blind I was to that before and blind to myself too. Thanks for opening my eyes. I needed that, and I can see that a lot of other people need it too.
Hello all
This article was basically all about me. I am in turmoil at the moment in my relationship. I am a classic case of a woman trying to break free of the bad relationship patterns that I have become accustomed to. I fell in love and was drawn to my best male friend. I am attracted to him, I love him and want to be with him but I am treating him badly and I can’t stop. He treats me like a princess, though he is no doormat believe me. He is quite insecure at times, but he is mostly a confident individual and thats what attracted me to him. I am creating drama where this is none and picking out his bad points constantly and give him a hard time. I feel obsessed with the relationship and full of worry and am constantly on “red flag” alert. Everyone who knows me says he is perfect for me and is my soul-mate and I used to think that myself, but I am wondering now as I keep snapping at him all the time and I think its out of fear. I am the sort of girl who feels ‘comfortable’ with being treated badly. We have just moved in together and I have been so happy up until a few weeks ago, where I seem to be going through a period of turmoil again. I seem to do this every once in a while with us, and each time it passes, we seem to move forward another few steps, but this feeling always comes back. I want a family one day and I want it with him. I know is because I dont love myself and basically hate myself and I am taking out all of my anger about my past onto him, how do I stop???
I dont want to hurt him, I want to go back to being happy again… but I can’t quite relax and am obsessing and causing fights. I dont want to lose him. He is so dedicated to me and wants to work things out and so do I. Do I need to change my thinking…. I dont know where to start. I want to go back to the happy place I was with him. Or maybe I am just having this “attack” because we have just moved in together??
thanks