You’ve met someone, you’ve been on a date or few, and at some point, you start to think about exclusivity – knowing that the other party isn’t shopping around and dividing up their dating schedule between you and someone else. While the reason you may be broaching this subject is because things are going great and you just want to be doubly sure that you’re both on the same page, equally, in listening to people’s stories, it seems that many people use broaching the subject of exclusivity or even defining the relationship talks, to clarify that they are the only person who is getting crumbs. In my first video in absolutely ages, I explain what these discussions are really for and why it shouldn’t be about, ‘I know you’re treating me in a less than manner but I just want to confirm that it’s only me that’s getting this treatment. Reassure me that there isn’t somebody else getting a better version of you…’ Enjoy!
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This dating hiatus granted me an opportunity to reflect on my desire for sex. Looking back at my sexual history, I’m sad to think of all the one-night-stands and no-strings-attached flings I had with men and women – as long as they were not cheating on someone, as long as they were in the 22-32 age bracket, as long as they were not my friend or colleague, as long as they had at least an undergraduate degree from a top-ranking university, as long as they could carry on pleasant conversations, and as long as they were strikingly handsome (men) or beautiful (women), I had no problem taking them to bed. Back then, I didn’t reflect on the negative impact such affairs could have on my life. I told myself that I shouldn’t feel guilt for having sex. I still don’t feel guilt. But I do regret not challenging my low standards. I normalized them. Because I continued to succeed in my career goals & enjoyed my social circle, I didn’t see the harm in having sexual flings as long as they didn’t affect other parts of my life. Because I had poor understanding of my emotions, I unintentionally stayed out of touch with my actual needs – the need for affection and acceptance, the need for truth and warmth in my relationships, the need for encouragement and support for my goals. Since I didn’t find a lasting emotional connection – one that could fulfill my actual needs – I now realize that back then I unconsciously subscribed to the “something is better than nothing” attitude towards sex.
Casual sex might be the right choice for many people. But it is unappealing to me. The break-up with the Liar reignited my desire for sex. Often I felt tempted to show sexual interest in a few people, but I told myself not to opt for instant or short-term gratification. It took a lot of effort, but I pushed myself to answer these questions: “why do you feel so dependent on or desperate for sex sometimes?” “How did I feel after a one-night-stand or fling?” The simple answers: sex is a quick-fix for my actual needs; casual sex leaves me feeling more disconnected from my emotions and actual needs. I don’t need to medicate myself through sex anymore. I don’t need it as a stress-buster. The reason I had the best sex of my life with the Liar is because I actually cared for the person he pretended to be, and because he seemed to care for me before his true colors showed.
If casual sex is all someone can offer me, then I find this insulting. In my mind, this offer renders me disposable & interchangeable with others. Of course, people rarely admit this truth in explicit terms. Instead, they may secretly think or skillfully use sugar-coating rhetorical moves to feed themselves & others the following: “You’re attractive. I’m interested in having sex with you. That is exciting. But I won’t give you anything else. Maybe romantic dinners, occasional gifts, and carefree conversations preceding the sex – but I can’t offer commitment or support for anything else in your life. You’re not the one for me. I’m not ready to settle down. I’m not wired that way. I’m scared of letting down my guard. I’m super busy – and everybody wants a piece of me (especially my friends & topnotch colleagues). Honestly, I don’t even know what I want in a relationship. I like my freedom. I like to come and go as I please. There are so many attractive people around us. You’re free to be with whoever you like too. Don’t get too close, I’m warning you. I’m not fooling or using you. I’m open to having a lot of fun with you. Maybe I’ll fall in love with you over time”.
Even if such an arrangement is meant to be consensual or mutual, I don’t feel the need to sign up for such a contract. It is not good enough. Bottom line: I don’t want to be one of many; I want to be the one and only for someone. Getting a grip on my desire for sex has been extremely difficult for me. But after listening to my own feelings and getting in touch with my actual needs, I finally no longer feel hounded by this desire. I don’t feel enslaved to this desire. I prefer to be on my own than to be attached to an illusion. For me, casual sex in the past created the illusion of excitement and fulfillment – both pitiably temporary. I’m sure I’ll be tempted, but I hope I won’t betray myself. I hope my resolve to say no to one-night-stands and no-strings-attached sex does not erode as time passes.
Nigella,
This was incredibly insightful.
I have come to this conclusion myself through a very painful process. Thank you for expressing what I have been struggling with so eloquently.
You said everything to perfectly, and it is clear you’re on the right path now. The moment of clarity about your sexual outlook came from spending time away from it. I aspire to be like you, because I have been traveling a similar path and it’s hollow and lonely when I allow myself time to reflect. I am going to copy your reply and keep it taped up at my desk so I can really, really absorb what I should be doing. Thank you.
Nigella,
Thanks for your thoughtful comments to Natalie’s always on the mark posts. They are so insightful and indirectly challenge me to reflect on my needs, values and being.
Kudos on achieving this understanding of your self Nigella. And thanks for sharing, it was full,of insight and honesty.
You are right to say you shouldn’t feel guilt, but grieving for what you may have lost is healthy.
As I get older the more comfortable I’ve become in only had a limited number of sexual partners. As I’ve said before there is no special reason for this, and I don’t cast judgement on others for doing so. Life is messy, and sometimes we don’t know ourselves.
I think it is easy to mistake or fool ourselves rubbing ones body parts against another is connectivity. Don’t get me wrong, nothing wrong with sex – but it is worth considering with whom and why you’re making that choice.
One of the hardest things to do is be vulnerable with the people we love. Fear of intimacy is hard to overcome but is possible. Like you I wa afraid in the part to open up fully in the past.
Even though my last relationship ended recently, I resolved to be open and vulnerable at the outset.
It was a wonderful learning experience for me. The end came for various reasons – primarily because she admitted she didn’t have the resilience or patience to be with some one with a child.
But she did acknowledge I had been present and supportive throught out our time together. Even in the end we were honest, and I could let her go with both love and sadness.
As we talked toward the end I could see how much fear she had of the future, of missing out on things, of getting hurt or not hurt, of her belief she was inadequate. She was convinced she was not worthy – she even said her existence didn’t matter in the scheme of things.
When someone negates themselves so fully, and cannot be reached there is no pint trying to “save them”. Only they can do that.
But it means I can walk away with my dignity intact. That the relationship proved unworthy is ok. But I take into my future those parts of relationship that worked. I also get to understand what I don’t want in a relationship.
If we protect ourselves too much from being rejected, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. We always end up in relationships that fail – either we sabotage things, fail to connect or choose the wrong people.
Even being vulnerable wont ensure the relationship will last. But it is a much firmer foundation than putting up emotional walls.
Very well said Mike. I’m struggling with these issues right now and your words have provided some clarity
Thank you so much Nigella for sharing what must have been a difficult and at times painful journey to finally getting the insight to know yourself.
It’s inspiring and challenging to read your words. Thank you again.
Nigella, I think it may help in this resolve and recovery journey of yours (to also prevent self-betrayal) to see the other person as how you now see yourself now e.g. a point that you mention…if you are offered casual sex and know now it is insulting, do not think to offer such yourself (during times of temptation) as then you will be insulting and rendering the other person as disposable and interchangeable. Do to others as you would have them do to you will be a hundred fold more pleasant and genuine this time round as it seems you are in a much more healthier state of mind and heart. Continue on in this manner and light, and you are well enough versed in the sugar coating rhetorical moves out there to be able to sift through the fakes to get to the real. Your testimonial is raw in honesty and has made me look at an ongoing issue at a much more deeper level. Thank you and go well.
Nigella, Thank you for taking the time to write this insightful comment. I have read all your recent comments and gained so much from them. I hope you are proud of the woman you are.
Keep well and keep going.
Lizzp, I couldn’t agree more. I walk around with a wealth of ‘Nigella-knowledge’ in my head! Nigella, you should be very proud xo
This post could not have come at a better time, like all Nathalie’s posts. I have been thinking of this exact thing lately Nigella, thank you for posting, it’s exactly what I have been doing since June last year and feeling stronger. The guys who just want sex rarely approach me now, its like I am giving off a warning that I am not that girl any more. Even those god looking ones from my past that have bumped into when out have hinted or tried it on, and I genuinely want nothing to do with them. I am feeling much less dependent on that feeling of physical closeness you get with sex, and much happier just having lots of fun with my friends. I had a moment last week of “what does it matter, it is just one day and will then pass” but thank god came to my senses, the day passed, and I was much better for it since. It’s like breaking an addiction, and I was pleased to have got through that unscathed. I hope you can do that too Nigella, it’s like No Contact of No Bodily Contact!
I know I need to get out and date again, it’s really been way too long. Now my flat renovations are sorted, and work is stable, I will be giving it a go soon but with this stronger resolve in place. I am going to be trying some different means than Internet dating which I am already excited about.
For now though, even though I’ve turned 40, I don’t panic like I did in my early to mid forties. I know myself so much better and much prefer spending time with good friends and enjoying my new flat and flash pillows all to myself!! I never ever thought I could get to this point, but it is indeed possible with reminding yourself how if you go back to your old ways of one night stands how you will feel the next day, and looking at your long term goals. And in the present time, remember to just spend your time with really genuine positive people and these awful guys from my past will just disappear, and serve as a reminder of what I really don’t want.
BR Posters,
Thanks for your kind and supportive replies to my comment. It was the most challenging comment for me to write. For the longest time, I have struggled to understand & articulate accurately what I make of my former limited relationships – and what changes I want to make to take better care of myself.
“The palest ink is better than the best memory” is the proverb that gave me the final push to sit down – introspect – and type out my thoughts on directionless relationships involving casual sex. Unlike my past, I now expect to be clear about the direction in which I – and my relationships – are most likely headed. In this vein, “investigate before you invest” is the mantra that now shapes my outlook on any new person I meet.
By writing & posting the comment, I was making an attempt to acknowledge my discontent with casual relationships. By sending me your kind replies, I hope you know that you have greatly helped me to make a firm commitment to my resolve against casual relationships. I prefer to take care of my needs on my own than to be fed crumbs. If I feel the pull of one-night stands & flings or realize that someone wants an exclusive yet casual relationship with me, I plan on turning to your comments to stay on track & to drive my life in the direction that is right for me.
Thank you.
Love this Natalie. Lessons learned!!! Wish I had seen this five years ago but I am wiser now. Great video, as always, felt like you were speaking directly to me.
If I ever do date again, I feel like I have so much knowledge now. I’m definitely no longer the naive person fresh out of a bad marriage looking for Prince Charming.
@Nigella, I love your comment. I was recently in this situation where somebody that I thought was really interested turned out to have this casual arrangement in mind. He didn’t even say so at first but all the signs were pointing in this direction. Even though we really had a click, and there was so much chemistry, I decided to just ask if he was even open to really dating. The answer was no. I am so glad I asked him and I cut all the flirting and texting instantly. After that, of course his interest faded so it only showed to me how he had completely different intentions than mine. I am no longer available for someone to just pass some funny times with and ignore me when it suits him. It’s tempting, but I don’t want to anymore.
This decision alone feels so empowering to me and thank god I have found this awesome website! I am reading and reading and reading some more and I recognise how much stronger I have become in the past year. Last year I was in a relationship with someone really really terrible who crossed all my boundaries and I realize I didn’t even know I didn’t have any boundaries at all to cross. Now I feel so much more in touch with myself and I even have found the strength to listen to my own gut feelings and actually act on it, cutting loose something exciting and fun on the short term, but I know it would have caused me only more pain in the long run.
Thanks for this amazing site!
Nat, I agree we shouldn’t even have to ask about exclusivity when faced with code amber or red behaviour. But sometimes asking the question “are you seeing someone else?” make us see things that we did not or did not want to see otherwise.
I wish I had done so when seeing the EUM after the break up of my marriage. I has been out of the dating scene for so long and was so insecure and confused, that I did not know what was “appropriate”. Was it ok to expect communication to be more than just text? Was it ok to expect some effort to see each other? We always avoided the subject of the status of our “relationship”, it was like the elephant in the room. I think me because I didn’t want to face the ugly truth and the rejection that he wasn’t interested in more than a fun time/shag/ego stroke because really knowing this I would have had to walk way. Him because he didn’t want to lose his fun time/shag/ego stroke. So it took me a year and it declining to an all time low to see I did not want to be treated casually and to stop all contact. And by that time I had the feeling he alredy had a replacement / was seeing someone else.
So in a way I wish I had the courage before to ask him and face the truth. Of course that doesn’t mean I would have gotten an honest answer…
My take is – next time I will watch out for shady behaviour and won’t stay involved with someone who will not treat me with the respect and affection I want. But if I am in doubt or I need a kick because I might have ignored amber or red alerts I will have the courage to ask where we are at, if he really wants to date (like Ilse said) or if he is seeing anyone else. Not because I would be willing to receive crumbs, even if no one else is getting any. But because when I get the confirmation that it is casual but my heart is in it, I will walk way.
PS: OMG your daughter is gorgeous! 🙂
My gut tells me if I to ask a question like that, deep down I already know the answer.
We all have the answers within ourselves to many questions….the hard part is trying not to rationalise and delude ourselves into hoping for outcomes we want that deep down we know will cost us and just delay accepting the truth and getting on with our lives
I agree Sunflower. In our defense, I will say a lot of this has to do wit a sense of fatigue. As adult women we all had our own ideas of where we saw ourselves at this and other ages and stages in our lives. This includes romance and love. It is disheartening to tiresome beyond words to still encounter the same things that we encountered while dating in our teens and twenties (for those that didn’t marry in their 20’s). The same infantile behavior from males 30,40, and 50 years old is beyond words. Even if we are not married and are still dating we though that as we matured, guys, and the dating experience would mature along with us. Most of this has to do with a woman already knowing, but her going along with, trying to make the best of it and hang on because she is tired and trying over and over and over for 5, 10, 15, 20 years. That’s the rub, that’s the toughie as the settling leaves a woman that much more depleted when she is already ‘tired’. What has helped and is helping me is knowing that I deserve love, peace, joy, and fullness of life PERIOD. A man has nothing to do with it. I deserve to lead a life that is about the mental, spiritual, emotional, and physical elevation of self and those around me. That is my RIGHT and it is the right of every single women on this earth. Feminine energy is priceless and not to be neglected or abused. As I work all day everyday to marinate this into my being, to replace the thoughts that sabotage, I find myself with NO tolerance for others energy that contradicts what I know I deserve and what I know I put out to others. I used to be the kind that would hold stuff in and simmer, now, more, and more, when I hear, see, and feel those ‘contradictory’ things from others, my whole being kicks it back out and rejects it. I say something then and there. How does this relate to myself and dating? I know what I want, what I deserve, and what I have to offer. If I (so to speak) am hiring a guy, on a trial basis for potential life partner, then he doesn’t get to come to the interview, let alone the job and TELL ME what job HE WANTS to take. I am not hiring for casual sex, she will do for now mentality, lying, cheating, stealing, shady AC behavior, being used for money, stability, ideas, and time passer/emotional airbag. So if I choose to entertain a guy and his ‘performance’ includes the above, he is soooo not getting the job and he is fired on the spot. Time is life and life its time given by God, and I am learning everyday to value mine and only entertain energies that are likewise.
Ljsrmissy
I agree with your both your posts 100%.
“If we were honest with ourselves, we will admit that the majority of our ‘relationships’ with AC’s were about 7% crumbs and 93% our thirst, desperation, and imagination. If we were honest with ourselves, we would admit that the guys foolishness wasn’t a real issue until he left us. That is to say that if they stuck around we would have CONTINUED to tolerate the code behaviors.”
This is so true, somewhere down the track we have lost our values, our pride and have traded in our self esteem for what … a few crumbs of attention with a barely there guy who for his own reasons has no intentions of giving us the love trust and care we are looking for.
“If I (so to speak) am hiring a guy, on a trial basis for potential life partner, then he doesn’t get to come to the interview, let alone the job and TELL ME what job HE WANTS to take. I am not hiring for casual sex, she will do for now mentality, lying, cheating, stealing, shady AC behavior, being used for money, stability, ideas, and time passer/emotional airbag. So if I choose to entertain a guy and his ‘performance’ includes the above, he is soooo not getting the job and he is fired on the spot.”
When did some of these guys/girls get so incredibly lazy. And when did we start to accept this low standard. If I was running a business and an employee turned up late or not at all, told me what work he/she was only willing to do, never put in any effort or never willing to do overtime, had no interest in growing the business and do a hard days graft but happily took the money and the benefits of sick leave, holiday pay etc, what would I do? Get rid of him/her of course and find someone who had a work ethic and integrity.
As Nat is always telling us, stop selling ourselves short.
Give someone a chance, as is often the case these days in business, potential employees get a three month trial period to see if it works for both employee and employer and if not, you look for another job and the employer looks for another trainee.
What’s wrong with using this principle in our dating and relationships?
Since I started reading BR I’ve learned to slow my roll right down, take time to process who or what I am actually dealing with, pay attention to yellow and red flags and importantly, listen to what my gut is telling me.
As far as relationships go … If we have to ask, we already know.
Yes Ms. Pauline only we alone can decide whether we are worthy or not. No one can decide that for us. If we don’t know our ‘price’ then don’t be surprised when men/other people offer us as little as possible. Guys are all about what is easiest, quickest, and most convenient way of going about EVERYTHING. But men, like women, appreciate what they have to work for the most. They guys are lazy because they no longer have to ‘pay to play’. Now a days women are more than willing to pay to get played. Again, its our TIME, MINDS, and BODIES. Hell, if WE don’t know our worth, HE is going to give us as little is possible. I too have learned that ‘hey, I matter here’! I knew I have wonderful qualities and things to offer but my spirit was so wounded from growing up being teased and bullied without mercy with a verbally and emotionally abusive mother in the mix. My first teacher in life, my mom, taught me how to take mistreatment, verbal, and emotional abuse. I now look at what STRENGHT I had back then! I had the strength to be and stay myself and not let peer pressure control me. I now realize that words can be life or death to another’s mind, body, and spirit. I have dealt with people so manipulative that they tried to make me feel like something is wrong with me because(I’m weak/sensitive) I didn’t want to take their verbal abuse! So I simply don’t tolerate the wrong words and energies in my space.
In terms of now actually taking a look at who you are dealing with lol. We women are so eager to get off the market. PLEASE BABY JAYSUS SOMEBODY TAKE ME OFF THE MARKET ! lol!! And it is understandable, we are late 20’s, 30’s, 40’s, and 50’s. Its natural. Who wants to still be ‘dating’ at 30, 40, or 50 like we are teens or something?! The fact is that if we just take off the ‘in the middle of the Sahara THIRST’ colored glasses that we wear we can see almost IMMEDIATELY that said guys are inconsistent, uninterested, broke/cripple/crazy, narcissistic, sociopathic, psychopathic, pedophiles, sexual deviants, social deviants, antisocial personality, mommas boys, momma issues, daddy issues, insecure, hate women but love sex, and on and on and on. PHEW lol! But me, you, and any other women will never look at it like this if we don’t see ourselves and gifts, prizes, and an asset to others that cant be quantified or qualified. Especially to the men that we allow into our space.
Bravo from another tired, very mature woman!
Great vid Nat and thank you for your time, hard earned wisdom, and energy put into this site! My mother used to always say that bought sense is the best kind! And I had to pay for the bulk of my sense. My thing is as women into our 30’s, 40′.s and 50’s (some 20’s) what don’t we get about this being our precious mind, time, and bodies? Enough of us as women don’t want the truth and guys know and benefit from this. Guys know all they gotta do is pay us a few compliments, a wee bit of attention and pump fake like they are interested and they can clean our mental, emotional, financial, and physical clocks. We need to get clear as to whether we want to healthy, elevating, fulfilling, both parties pull their weight relationship or do we just want somebody, ANYBODY, to save us from us and to at least give us the illusion that we are finally off the market now. I totally get that we just want off the market all damned ready lol! We are grown women and we are tired of dealing with the same things (when it comes to dating) that we were dealing with when we were in our teens. Truth be told, enough of us are opting for the latter. The ‘just give me some kind of attention and I will use my imagination for the rest’ type relationship. If we were honest with ourselves, we will admit that the majority of our ‘relationships’ with AC’s were about 7% crumbs and 93% our thirst, desperation, and imagination. If we were honest with ourselves, we would admit that the guys foolishness wasn’t a real issue until he left us. That is to say that if they stuck around we would have CONTINUED to tolerate the code behaviors. Because many of us continue to value having anything over no romantic male presence. Even if the male presence is one that WE KNOW isn’t into us. We know if the guy don’t, text, call, or come by (except to plan and receive sex/money/time passer/arm chair therapy)where we stand. We know when we are being used for these things. Its our mind, our time, and our bodies! Where is the wisdom in CONTINUOUSLY exposing our mind, time, and bodies to guys/ people who CONTINUOUSLY show us that we are peripheral at best except when they want to utilize our ‘services’. The time for coddling and hand holding is done. In our 30’s, 40’s, and 50’s we need to drop the habit of hoping that if we bury our heads in the sand it will go away. Or if we will, wish, imagine, and fantasize it enough that it will be DESPITE what reality is showing us. If we have to ask, we already know.
Ljsrmissy, A wonderfully expressed comment. Thank you!
You are so welcome! We must uplift each other. We all have differing styles but its all for the same purpose.
I love the video formats! Great job again Natalie!
Great video, Is that your daughter? gorgeous girl. When i asked my ex that question, his response was, “I won’t see anyone else whilst we are together”, that was actually a lie, but at the time I did feel it was a strange response, the implication being, that “we” were just one more relationship in a chain of many past, and others in the future. What I now realise is, as you point out, the relationship was always shady, and the reason i had to keep asking the question is because it didn’t feel right at all. I know that when you are with someone that doesn’t cheat or lie, you don’t feel the need to keep asking that question.
I 100% agree that asking “Where do we stand?” and “Are we exclusive?” and “Are we together?” usually means something is seriously lacking in the relationship. But I am the type of person who needs to have that conversation, even if I already suspect that I know the truth. Asking, “What’s up?” is merely a way to let everything come to a boil. I’m really glad I asked the ex. His response: “Well, we’re totally in love with each other, and you’re my favorite person, so in that sense we’re together. But no, we’re not together.”
Ugh. Don’t people understand that meaningless compliments are more painful than insults?
I so needed to read this post today!
I was seeing someone for a couple of months I met online, I had initiated first contact and things seemed to be going well. There was attraction, chemistry and things in common.
I managed not to sleep with him until the 4th date, even though he was sexy as hell and turned me on so much.
And yes I did ask whether he was seeing/dating other people. To which he said ‘no, it’s O.K for you to ask’. I wasn’t subscribed on the site, so wasn’t really active enough to tell if he was actively going on there or not. That is not solid evidence that he was dating others, given how it can be difficult it is to set up a date with someone.
He also mentioned me going on the pill and not using protection quite early on, to which I thought was strange as we hadn’t actually had the ‘exclusive’ talk. I didn’t think of myself as his girlfriend.
Then I gradually started to see a pattern emerge. I was the one asking when we would do something next, sometimes he would rearrange dates.
We didn’t spend Valentines together, because he said he had ‘family things’ to sort out. O.K you can’t be too hard or mistrusting at first, give the benefit of the doubt. But it doesn’t
take all day or all weekend. He never spent his Birthday, days off or the weekend with me either, always something cropping up.
One Monday when we had arranged to see each other, he left it until the evening to ask whether it was O.K to leave it till Tuesday? I had just gotten ready and was fairly disappointed and upset, so didn’t reply. Then in the morning he send his unusual text saying he would pick me up after work, but wasn’t feel too good as he was losing his voice and was tired, but didn’t want to let me down. So I said ‘that’s fine’. When I did see him he was fairly abrupt with me over some things I was talking about. Later we had a kiss and made out for a bit. This is the guy who admitted he masturbated everyday, had a high sex drive like myself, said he would never say ‘no’ to me) then declined sex with me. I was disappointed he had left me horny and he took me home. I said I valued being reliable, and yes we are all busy. He ended up apologising yet again.
I didn’t see him until a week later, as he had lost his voice completely(so he said). But was very erratic with keeping in touch.
When I saw him on the Tuesday night I noticed there was cinema tickets. Even though he hadn’t mentioned seeing this movie.
I was talking and he wasn’t listening to a thing I was saying, he was on his phone! Later we had a bit of a kiss and didn’t have sex. I stayed over and he dropped me off in the morning after we had had sex. We arranged to do something on the Friday.
So he picked me up and we go back to his place. I’m chatting asking what he has been up to and he’s constantly checking/messaging on his phone. I pop to the toilet and come out and notice the picture on the screen which he uses on his dating profile, then he quickly changes what’s on the screen.
Hmmm so I have had a few drinks by now and don’t want to cause a scene and embarrass myself. He knows I’m pretty pissed that he keeps texting, which is rude in company. So he finally puts the phone down. Later we don’t have sex.
In the morning in bed he hugs me, and says ‘what do you see in me’? I say there is chemistry and he knows the effect he has on me. He says I am sexy as f*&%. Gorgeous, sexy, intelligent and horny in the bedroom. Any of his male friends would be happy to have me. We didn’t have sex. I go home early in the morning as he has some job to do for his family.
I get back home log onto the dating site and he is logged on! Gutted. But I knew all along.
When I confront him about this, he said he wasn’t seeing anyone else he has cancelled his subscription ‘weeks ago’ and was saying ‘thanks, but no thanks, I’m seeing someone’. You can’t reply to messages if you don’t have a subscription! I see this as a blatant lie.
You need time to explore other options to make sure, but just be honest. I wasn’t seeing anyone else. Yet another EUM I have met online. I have backed off now anyway.
Super,
My biggest concern of your post, is that you did not use condoms.
Erm no, he mentioned it and because I’m not stupid it didn’t happen thankfully. I don’t want to be left with a baby from an idiot.
Super,
Thank God! I was thinking more on the track of STDs. Sooooooo many are having unprotected sex. Scary!
And some of them are “superbugs” now, as in, antibiotics don’t kill them anymore. Scary, not worth it.
Oh dear god! A condomless sex conversation from a guy who is not even discussed the potential of an actual relationship or when either of you last got tested. Have met one before. I ran like the world was burning. And to think he was the one future faking and talking all kinds of we’ll do this and xyz. Come to realise from piecing items, he is not self aware enough to even remember what he’d said or done to cause the no contact in me. I’m sorry you went way further than my experience with this person (mine was 2012)period. I also had some dates with a guy whom when i asked if having flings and no connections at all wasn’t empty and narcissistic, he said to me ‘narcissism smashiccism’ no joke. I stupidly went on another date after that. Then ran.
I must say i wish i had been all smooth sailing since then. But, end of 12 is when i’d meet the person that led me to br. 3 months of dating and meeting then houidini behaviour. This then brought up abandonment issues from childhood that i hadn’t finished clearing. Thankfully, i have a better hold on it. I didn’t date seriously last. Went online and tbh i don’t think it’s for me. Maybe i was doing it wrong #shrug
Supercherry & Tee Tee
I think there are a lot of these types online. I encountered one that led me to BR. Swept me up in a tide of intensity and future faking, then performed a Houdini act. He actually disappeared after I became confused during our couple of months of dating and asked “where this was going”. He then became very busy with his family all the time. When I did see him it was always at his convenience. He would always come and pick me up until one day he stood me up then disappeared.
For months I blamed myself for not asking the right questions or voicing my concerns when I noticed weave in his bathroom and cinema tickets in his house when he told me he was at his sisters. But like Natalie says, it shouldn’t be about spending mental energy wondering if this person is right for you or trying to coerce and convince someone that you’re the one.
I look back now and think – what a dick! And Supercherry, he was also drop dead gorgeous.
The houdini guy i met was via a friend. I know! Takes all sorts. The thing i found with online dating was that i wasn’t sure how to navigate. I think i’m more used to meeting face to face. And taking it from there. I know things don’t always work either way. But, hey.
Wow! The guy had signs of others there! Damn. What a tool.
In my case of the houdini, around the same time, i lost a friend. So, this pushed me to regroup and focus. And mostly realise, he’s just not that special.
It’s hard not to blame yourself. I do it plenty. Reworking and trying to relearn. Further down, (scroll a bit) suki’s comment made me think of what’s been happening with me this year. Too annoyed with myself, yet i can tell a friend to have compassion in the same scenario! Gahhhhh.
Just wanted to add anyone who says, ‘honesty is the best policy’ or ‘ask me anything I’m really honest’- run a mile!
I so appreciate you, Nat. Thank you for helping others by sharing your journey. I spent many years in the ambiguous zone, wasting time trying to turn a date or booty call into a relationship. I thought that if someone fancied me enough to have sex with me, he would invest himself in developing something more. It never occurred to me that I was picking/attracting men who were unavailable. I was turning myself inside out trying to be understanding, patient, kind and awesome in bed so they would love me. It was basically a repeat of my childhood drama with a disordered mother and a disappearing father. I finally learned that I don’t have to be the best anything to be worthy of love, respect and commitment. I have been on a dating hiatus for the past few years, and it’s been the best thing for me. I respect me. I like me, and I’m learning to treat me with love and patience. I’m hopeful that I will meet someone who is loving and compatible, but in the meantime, I am doing fine.
Nigella and Ljsrmissy – BULLSEYE. Bullseye squared. Bullseye to the tenth power.
Lots of meaty wisdom in those comments.
Supercherry, you’re fooling yourself and blaming him.
Nat Attack, you’re giving away your power when you ask the other person to frame the relationship. Why? Are you afraid to recognize the end of the not-quite-what-I-want relationship?
Elgie~
I hear you. I will probably do things a bit differently in the future after encountering BR. But I am still grateful that I popped the question, because in that moment, after months of confusion exhaustion and insomnia, that was powerful. Just voicing what was on my mind. It felt really liberating, actually. It didn’t feel like I was giving up my power at all. It wasn’t the perfect way to end things, but it ended. THANK GOD.
I finally got rid of my EUM in October and have recently started dating again. After being so emotionally invested in someone who messed me around for so long I felt like I needed to meet someone else in order to finally move on. I met a guy online and we met after a week or so of messaging. The date went really well, we spoke every night for the next week and then met again for a second date the week after when I stayed at his after we’d been out (nothing happened). We have a lot in common, have good chemistry and he has said he is looking for a relationship and isn’t interested in dating lots of girls. I am extremely mistrusting and wary of men after the hot/cold/on/off relationship I was in for over two years. Feeling suspicious, I checked the online sites he told me he is signed up to and he has been logged in to both of them in the last day, after the night I spent with him. I don’t really get this- my way of thinking is see how this goes, if it doesn’t go anywhere then start looking again but why does he feel the need to still be shopping around when things appear to be going so well between us? I’m new to this online dating thing, is this normal to keep searching when you’re getting on well with someone you’re dating? Have I landed myself another potential player or am I being a bit over the top wanting some sort of exclusive dating at such an early stage?
Hi Lou,
I think you are moving too fast.
I have been doing the OLD for the last 3 months, and have had a few dates. Got a 3rd date w someone next week but he won’t be coming to my home and I’m not going to his. He’s made it clear he doesn’t expect that either, we are going a bike ride and picnic and he’s booked a 7pm train home.
The difficulty you’re in now , is that he appears to have not been truthful. I haven’t asked my date about other online activity/dates, because I haven’t decided if I want him anyway. How can you seriously want a relationship with someone you just met?
Why would you stay the night on a virtual strangers house?
And, I would add, I’m still on the website and so is he. That’s fine, for now. I think after this date some sort of decision will have to be made , there are certain amber flags relating to his ex (suspect he may not be properly over her) and the distance. I like him, he is nice, and I fancy him, but I’m not hooked on him and I’m keeping myself on a tight rein until I feel more sure.
Mymble- I stayed at his house because I made a judgement call at that moment in time and as it was either stay or get the train home alone at 1am, I chose to stay. Whether that was right or wrong, we all make mistakes and silly decisions in the moment and I’m sure you’ve made them too. You’re probably right that I’m moving too fast, I suppose I’ve just wasted so much time with someone who was completely unbothered about me I’m looking for someone who actually makes some effort to show me he is genuine and interested from the get-go. From my point of view, continuing to shop around while dating me does not reflect that much interest. I think I need to ditch the online dating, don’t think I’m cut out for it! Thanks for your advice.
Lou, You are not ready to date. You have not dealt with your past experiences in a way that would allow you to ‘be’ in the present. I suggest you read this post:
CARTING EXCESS BAGGAGE AROUND PUTS THE PAST ON REPEAT. OFFLOAD, REPACK, RECLAIM.
by NATALIE (NML) on FEBRUARY 7, 2014
And then the recent Dating Hiatus post.
If was really a healthy and emotionally available dating experience and later relationship that you seek, your actions and thoughts would not be focussed on this guy in the way that they are. They would be focussed on you. I think you are saying to yourself that you want healthy relationships but in spite of you your deeper patterns will not let you go there. An intimate partner cannot put your baggage in perspective for you.
Lou,
I agree with Mymble!
You’re also investing to much brain energy, too soon. Slow the roll.
Lou,
It’s been two dates so far, right? If you have a bad feeling then you shouldn’t disregard it. However, two dates might be a bit early to ask him about the dating site.
If you like this guy and you otherwise do not have any red flags, you could see how things progress. Do not sleep with him or get too caught up yet, but go on another date or two and if things are going well and you are still interested in him, then ask him at that point whether he is dating anyone else and/or still on the dating site.
You can go from there – see what his answer is and whether you think it sounds honest and in keeping with your values.
Lou,
You’re right, I have made some terrible decisions.
I’m learning, I hope.
As far as on line is concerned, it’s merely a way of getting an introduction and after you’ve met you proceed as you would after any other kind of introduction. The main difference is that as you haven’t met the person through friends or work, you are likely to have less information about their context or history so they can really tell you anything. For that reason it’s a good idea to move slowly and not get invested too soon.
It’s a good idea to plan in advance when and how you’ll end the date,(and also have a plan if you need to bail sooner). Even if you’re getting on great it’s still a good idea to stick to plan.
It feels good to me to be a woman who means what she says. (And in the past I often wasn’t). A decent bloke will respect that too. I know I like that quality in others.
Good post – after a few dates I always raise the issue of exclusivity. Clarity can be a wonderful thing 🙂
THAT CHILD.
And, Natalie, you are such a hottie.
I remember my therapist asking me if the ex and I had that exclusivity talk. I remember thinking “What the wu? We have far bigger problems than that & he’s a liar anyway.”
Why did I stay at all? One reason to avoid loneliness, like today–a Saturday–I have no one to spend time with. I feel isolated but needing social interaction. And I’ve been like this my whole life. I have trouble making and keeping friends. No one has wanted to spend as much time with me and enjoyed it as much as the ex.
How come I seemed to be the only one with the opposite problem with sex. I fell for a guy that told me he wasn’t ready to be in a relationship but told me I was beautiful, sexy, and he was attracted to me. Never tried to have sex with me. Makes me feel very rejected cuz it seems like most men given the opportunity would. But now he disappeared and I guess it’s for the best that it didn’t happen.
Perhaps this man was seeking some cheap validation, looking for some one to reflect back to them how special they are. A quick ego stroke.
Or he was trying to play you by stating he didn’t want sex in the hopes you would surrender – a reverse psychology tactic in order for you to trust. That you actually took what he said literally may have been against his plan.
Some people use fake honesty and sensitivity to manipulate you into a situation.
It will have nothing to do with you – even though we all internalise rejection and look for faults in ourselves.
Nat’s book is good for discussing this. Ives read ebook cover to cover and made extensive notes.
You don’t need them to validate your worth 🙂
Laura,
There’s all kinds of everyone out there.
Maybe he had a phobia about STDS.
Maybe he had an STD.
Maybe he had erectile problems.
Maybe he is over anxious about the size of his penis.
Many men feel nervous and anxious about sex for many reasons.
Maybe he was in a relationship and couldn’t quite bring himself to be unfaithful.
At some point you have to shrug your shoulders, and forget about it.
Laura,
You´re not the only one, I had the same experience and it´s absolutely awful. It was the catalyst that brought me to BR. I still don´t know what his problem was but I don´t bother finding out anymore. This guy would do anything to avoid having actual sex with me, while telling me all the time he wanted to have sex with me. Contradiction, much? When we were about to get to it he would bring up all sorts of impossible conditions and requirements. This happened with a lot of manipulation on his part (“I want it to be special with you”, “I want us to go slow”), so ít took some months for me to understand what was going on. It was extremely humiliating, at the end I felt like I was about to start begging him for sex. (Which, I think, was his idea from the start, narcissist as he is.)
It feels so good to have been able to put a stop to all this nonsense. Now I wouldn´t say hi if I met him. He´s just crap to me now.
Oh and this whole situation led me to shag a random guy I met on a dating site on the second occasion I saw him. He was nice enough but clearly not looking for a stable relationship, which, looking back, kinda suited me. I wasn´t all that aware of my motivations at the moment but now I know that I just needed to check that men were willing to have sex with me. Pretty pathetic, huh?
The actual thing was physically okay but there was no emotional involvement, which was a disappointment. After this, I was finally confident enough to tell the no-sex narc that he was too weird, that how come he would get me all worked up for nothing? And then I started healing, and I understood that I was better off alone than receiving someone´s crumbs.
Awh, Laura,
My ex and I never had sex. He wasn’t sexually available. I guess neither was I; we both had our issues in that department.
Some people just have issues around that and it’s too hard/scary to forge sexual intimacy. I’m sorry. It hurts like hell being on the end of it that you are (the other side isn’t pleasnt either).
It’s not you; it’s his issues to sort out.
So maybe the next step in this journey is for me to spend time with myself and like it.
Today I slept in until 3:00 p.m., ate cake in in my underwear, drove around drinking tea listening to music I like, did some laundry, played my keyboard, and took myself out for Indian food.
Peanut,
Good for u! Live your life and everything will fall into place.
Laura,
You should be happy that you didn’t sleep with this guy, as you would feel worse .
You have posted about this numerous times. Why are you putting so much value into a guy that didn’t sleep with you , and then later took off?
Lastly, would you rather feel used?
I have a question for Mike. Could use a mans perspective. And this is about a different man. Why do guys say, we need to do dinner sometime or lets do so and so sometime, to my face and in an email ( I said sure, that sounds fun) then I don’t hear anything. That was 10 weeks ago. I personally would never suggest it to someone if I wasn’t interested or going to follow through. And I’m certainly not gonna chase him. I have read Natalie’s book 4 times. I love it and even though this is a slow process it has really helped.
Laura
I’m not Mike either so I hope you don’t mind me butting in.
It’s not very honest to pretend an interest where there is none, make airy plans for sometime in the future, I’ll ring you, blah blah blah, and I’ve had this pulled on me many times.
What I do when I hear this is smile, nod, say fine or make a non committal comment and totally disregard anything they are saying.
Especially with men!
Until they back up their “I’ll call you, lets do lunch” with an actual date, it means NOTHING.
If a man wants to call and make a date he will, there will be actions to back up his words, if he doesn’t, he won’t.
It’s fairly simple if you don’t start reading anything into what a man says, it’s what he does that counts.
It hasn’t got anything to do with you as a person so don’t go there. Even if you did have a bit of lettuce stuck in your teeth when you were talking to him, if he wants to ask you out he will anyway, green bits in the teeth or not.
Laura,
Well… that is hard to say, so I’ll be very mindful of giving advice. There could be a 100 reasons for this – some legitimate others less so.
All would say is you shouldn’t be waiting around for anyone, especially after such a prolonged period of time.
The simple phrase “Actions speak louder than words.” is something I try to be mindful of.
In the last weeks of my relationship with the Ex-GF we’d made an arrangement to catch up her place – I’d locked myself out of my place, and she had my spare set of keys. She promised to met there and give me the keys.
She asked I get there at 6pm. However at 5.45pm I got a text saying said be their at 7pm, stating she’d been detained at work. I went and grabbed dinner, got to her place at 7 and waited. And waited. And waited. At 7.30 she still hadn’t turned up. I texted and called to ask if she was on the way (respectfully mind you). She rang back and said “I’m sorry, I didn’t release the time – a work friend is having a hard time and we got talking and I didn’t see the time…”
At the moment I instinctively knew she couldn’t make the time, despite making repeated promises to do so, the relationship was *not worth my time*. My dignity demands better of that. I had indulged the situation enough.
Was her excuse real, or was she game playing? I don’t know. But does it matter? Suffice to say within a few days the relationship was over.
If a person doesn’t treat you with sufficient respect, then treat yourself with the respect you deserve.
It is OK to say: “I’m better than being made to wait on their beck and call – I deserve better than that!”
I think Nat would call a string of broken promises “future faking”
Laura, why the repeated quest for validation from a man….?….that’s the question your writings bring to my mind. You were seeing a guy who regularly denied wanting sex with you…and you worked harder and harder to change his mind about that…why?…… If you’re a good lover it’s HIS loss, right? Then, when you could not win him over, you did a one-night-stand just to prove to yourself that a man finds you sexually desirable…….again…you seek a man to say ‘Laura you are worth screwing’. And finally, on this site, the opinion that you crave is that of the male poster.
You are desperately seeking male validation. You are screaming to any nearby male “Please see me. Love me, even if just for a minute.” It’s like loving yourself doesn’t turn you on.
Eff the man who didn’t want your kitty.
More importantly…slow your roll, girl. Make sure you really want him and aren’t stuck on trying to get him to want you.
It is always a good idea to ask if you are exclusive with a person, especially if you might be dealing with assclown. My belief is u don’t assume anything cuz there are people who will act like their in a relationship but are “going with the flow”.
U better believe I ask my husband when we were dating if we were exclusive. Not because we were having any problems, but it was necessary.
Laura,
I know you asked Mike, and my insight will not be as good as his, but I have personally given it a lot of thought myself.
It’s why a place of possible employment will say we’ll call you next week and never does, it’s why people cancel last minute or don’t show up for an appointment: Things happen and/or people overestimate their interest. What you need to be soooo focusing on is how YOU feel about the date/guy. When my spidey senses are all over the place or I’m just not interested, I have said, “No thank you; I’m not interested.”
I’m pretty good these days about not overestimating my interest with men, yet with possible friendships I still find myself in the “we’ll hang out dance,” even when both of us get to know each other a bit better and just aren’t really into it.
The more emotionally available a person is, the more they live in the present, and the more they know themselves, the less they overestimate interest.
People do this with things too. I bought a chair I hate. I knew in the store it wasn’t quite right but all the sales ladies loved it, so I bought it and way overestimated liking it. People do this with people too. Sad, I know. That’s why it’s so important to find someone who knows themselves and go at a sure but steady pace.
It is crap to say they will do something if there is no follow through. I can pretty much (though you always can’t) tell when a guy is bsing and I can say, “Actually, I’d rather you didn’t call. Not interested, thank you.”
An aquaintance’s husband once told me I was responsible for only two words when showing disinterest toward a man: “No thanks.”
I got a bit off topic, but I hope this helps.
Also Laura,
Recently I had a young man ask to sit with me at a cafe (I think he fancied the way I looked). I said yes as I fancied his look too.
By the end of the meal we were scrambling to get away. He kept asking me about my interests and sharing his. We had no common interests. I could tell he was put off. I liked the difference but was getting peeved at his judgments on things like I don’t do any form of extreme exercise. I didn’t judge him for not drawing since he was seven! Or for not reading music, etc. Totally unfair. I had had it by the end of lunch, but you know what…
My ego was still a little bruised that he did not ask me for my number or try to contact me. After noticing and putting the ego in check, I couldn’t care less if I ever see him again.
Peanut: This guy seems to be making the same mistake many of us have made in the past. He is judging (and dismissing) potential partners based upon completely superficial and irrelevant criteria. I guess you’ve dodged a bullet there, because he would probably be EU anyway.
Which brings me to:
I’m not quite ready to date, but I have noticed men scoping me and my interests out.
With the ex, I thought our common interests were the glue that held us together even though we crumbled like a 100-year-old book.
So, I see it’s about values, but I really hate being sized up in terms of my interests. I spend sometimes 12 hours day on art projects and my head spins/hurts with music theory (so worth it when I play though).
I’m not exactly looking to make art or music with a man. That has about as much appeal as working a 9 to 5 with a partner. But…
I like sex, road trips, I’m a foodie if I’m not the one cooking, I love to walk in places with pretty trees, I love books, espresso, smoothies, swinging, cuddling, animals, etc…
And I value momogamy, honesty, authenticity, responsibility, care, and balance.
Really my vocation/intelligence level doesn’t come into play in the actual actions of intimacy or the depth of values.
I want a man no less than I am. I won’t settle this time either.
Thanks Peanut. Appreciate it. I know, his actions don’t match his words. Red flag. Its just so annoying.
Go with your gut. If it doesn’t feel right, you usually know that something is not right. Getting confirmation of the not-right feeling… good luck.
EllyB,
He sure did have a cute face and was polite enough, but all in all I got such a superficial vibe from him.
Oh, well (still not ready anyway), and if he’s lookin’ for a lady to climb mount everest with him (or anything for that matter!) then I am certainly not his lady.
So bizzare though. (I’m certainly not looking for a drawing/music partner.ick.) I mostly just want to be left alone during art/music time. But there are so many human activities that boost intimacy that 90 plus percent of the population enjoy–you just have to share like values in order to be able to keep it consistent and grow in depth.
And the last thing I want to do is deconstruct anime art concepts with a lover. Some things belong in the classroom, others in the bedroom.
I want someone who brings something new to the relationship–i.e., his own totally different likes and interests.
I am not so insecure that I need to make love to the male version of me to feel safe.
I’m just looking for a man who I am attracted to (yes physically too) where the feeling is mutual who values monogamy, honesty, and care who likes being human and wants to share that with me.
Without BR I would be clueless. Even seven years of therapy would have not prepared me as well.
I think the exclusivity talk is important – the question is when and why you have it. You dont need it too early in the relationship, you dont need it if you dont yet know what YOU want (why ask the other person unless you’re ready for something real with them – dont use the exclusivity conversation as a form of insurance). You need it if you have certain rules – e.g. maybe it only matters once you have sex. In that case, you might as well delay sex till you know that the person is really worth it. Then you can tell them that those are your rules, that sex = exclusivity. Before that you dont ask whether they’re seeing other people and you dont check their profile for clues. I’ve had friends get antsy because they haven’t had the conversation yet. I asked them why do you want this conversation right now? Turned out they werent sure, their insecurities were high, but they werent sure what THEY wanted from the relationship. They waited a few weeks, and then the other person brought it up and they realized they were on the same page. I think they were both exclusive from the get-go (who has the time for dating more than one person!), but telling someone you’re exclusive often becomes a form of commitment and some people prefer to wait to do that.
Suki, your comment struck a chord with me. Wish i’d acted in congruence with my true self in the last month 🙁
This year, i got set on some blind dates by friends. Have been on a hand full of dates with two different guys. Both quite interesting and from our meetings so far, seem genuine. Made a mistake in getting physical too soon with one. Now i don’t know how to manoeuvre back to the getting to know only part of it. In my limited experience, sex blurs things. I can’t do casual in any way at all.
I do want something built on love, intimacy and great sex of course. But, i don’t want to rush. And i am feeling a bit confused. But, mostly stupid for letting myself get carried away.
Maybe i’m not ready to date as i thought. And i don’t know if my feelings are a result of having had sex with him or what has come up in the dates / meets.
Usually, i do take my time. And i’d been by self for the last few months dating no one at all. These were my first dates since last Sept / Oct. I thought i was doing so well. And i’d stayed away from sex with anyone from May. Before that it’d been 2 years. Not trying to justify my stupidity at all. I’ve mostly had sex within relationships. As the few experiences i had that weren’t (i.e. trying to shag a relationship out of a shag) felt fake to me.
Anyway, now that this has happened, i’m a bit thrown. I know i hadn’t gotten to know this guy long enough before it happened. Now i don’t know how to go forward. Do i stop dating both as i have slept with one? Or stop dating both altogether. And go back to self work.
Sorry for the long essay!
Hmmm. TeeTee, why dont you have a conversation with the person you have slept with? Assuming these are both genuine enough people, you must have felt more interested in the one you slept with. The smart thing to do would be to dial it back with the other one (its not fair to him) or even to tell him that you are more seriously seeing someone. AND to have a conversation with the person you did get physically intimate with — not the exclusivity talk, but the opposite …that intimacy has made you feel confused and you want to hang out for a few weeks and just get to know each other again, have fun, and not go too fast. Be honest. If dating is discovery phase, then these conversations will show you something about yourself and the other person and your mutual ability to solve issues and communicate.
Why do we find it easier to have sex than a conversation about sex? IF this is a decent enough person, then you should give it a chance. You might not be ready to date yet, but perhaps also this is a chance to find not the life partner but rather your own boundaries and strengths. Sometimes (this requires some courage but I have succeeded with this approach in less intimate areas of life like networking and work) I will approach a conversation as an experiment – I wonder what will happen if I tell the person x. This is not in a manipulative way – I mean the x thing that I will tell them is not manipulative or passive aggressive, but I prepare myself in this way so that I am not reactive and caught up in the moment but am able to have perspective and some distant and to think ‘oh so if I say x, this person responds with y, thats interesting’. THis allows me to have some more information about life and to not be too invested in the outcome of these conversations. Good luck! Dont be hard on yourself, be honest with this person and the other one you are dating. No games, no passive aggression and watch for it in others.
Thank you Suki, you are right, it is going to be a tough convo.
One (well two really) i must have nonetheless, I don’t want to act shady or do the horrid fade out on either of them, that’s mean and cruel. I have hated when it’s been done to me.
I’m hard on myself, i suppose as i have huge expectations of me from me. And felt like i flopped big time. I’m working hard on easing up a little.
I meet with the guy i did sleep with tomorrow. I haven’t set a time to meet with the other guy yet. Will likely be this week too though. I’m printing what you’ve said as reference points. Thanks again.
I don’t think this video means the exclusivity talk is obsolete, I think it means that it’s unnecessary in shady/ambiguos relationships as it changes nothing, whereas in healthy relationships it just confirms what’s already there: trust.
My new motto is “actions speak louder than words”. For the first time in my life, I’m really enjoying dating. But, I’ve learned a LOT. Guy can talk all kinds of shizz just to get your attention, yet he’s just throwing crumbs and barely showing up. I find that most guys have the expectation of sex within the 1st-3rd date. This is when I take the opportunity to have a conversation. I DONT KNOW YOU! We just met and barely friends. If there’s a nice connection and chemistry, then lets spend more time together and see how things progress. A few guys have told me that many girls they date express a strong interest within the 1-2nd dates, invite them over and hook up, wanting to know where they stand, wanting to date/have a relationship. Then, they get all confused when they meet someone who has boundaries. Either they disappear (happens to me a lot), see it as a challenge and will hang in hoping to hook up, or they respect you and behave like a decent guy. I had 2 dates with a guy and he demanded to know when we’re having sex, because it had been a long time. WTF? Then he sent a lazy text, asking for a FWB arrangement. He was blocked and deleted immediately.
The exAC Narc, asked me on our first date what I was looking for. I told him a relationship. He asked the same question on our 5th date. When I asked him what he wants, he would not give a straight answer. I should have seen this as a Red Flag. He was testing to see how to “manage” me. He never had any intention of a relationship and his actions clearly showed that. What he got was an arrangement that only benefited him. What I wound up was 10 months of less than treatment, mind games, abuse and cheating. After picking up my rear end, heart and soul from the floor, what I walked away with is a huge lesson. I respect myself enough to know what I want, what I deserve, what I will accept and damn sure will get rid of anything less. There’s a lot of crap out there, but there’s also a lot of good. I value myself too much to settle.
I ended up joining a paid dating site because I got sick of POF real quick. Been dating a guy now for 3-4 weeks, all going good and all going well so far. I approached the exclusivity thing a little different, instead of outright asking, I told him I’m not dating anyone else and was mighty relieved when he laughed and said he’d been wondering if I was, and that he’s not either. Heck I’m not even interested in dating more than one person at a time, let alone finding the time for it.
I like your approach Kirsten. 🙂
Asking can make someone feel ‘put on the spot’. And possibly wonder what is behind the question. By being honest about what we are doing ourselves like dating one person at a time because it’s a preference, easier,etc. would make the conversation less uncomfortable I would think.
I like it too. Put that way, it sounds pretty much like common sense. It might also prompt the other person to explain why THEY feel the need to date multiple people at a time. I think this explanation can be very telling.
Kirsten,
What does POF.stand for?
Plenty of fish i believe.
L.missy, I beg to differ. I gave my ex hell for being a tosser right from when this started. That’s why we were mostly off & much less (barely even) ever on. Then I found out he’d been sleeping around behind my bk all along. I did NOT stick around for a less than r.ship. Instead I dumped his ass & never looked bk! LOL
It’s pretty depressing to see just how many women are being treated badly and putting up with the same childless BS that we’d expect out of a teenage guy. That’s why I’ve stopped dating. I’m just so tired of all of the BS, games, and lies. I can’t help but think of all of the time I’ve wasted on crappy dates with guys who wouldn’t piss on me if I were on fire. I could’ve used that time to work out, practice piano, sing, read, cook, etc. Basically, I’ve given so many hours of my life to undeserving men that I cannot fathom dating ever again.