Anna asks: How do you really know if someone is manipulating you or whether it’s you that’s really the one with problems and can’t admit to them?
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One of the things that people who are lean on empathy or who tend to blame others struggle to do is admit when they have an issue or are at fault, which means that they’re also unlikely to truly reflect and ask this type of question. The type of person who asks this question is invariably somebody who is a habitual blame absorber. This doesn’t mean that they don’t have issues but what it does mean is that they tend to take responsibility for other people’s feelings and behaviour which includes assuming that because they have issues that they must be the one at fault or solely at fault. This makes them an easy mark for people who seek to influence and control via covert and more aggressive means.
Every moderately healthy relationship does need two parties who are cognisant of where each ends and the other begins. You each need to be able to trust that yes, at times there will be conflict and criticism but that there is ownership–maturity, responsibility and integrity–at the heart of these more difficult interactions.
Anna, you need to be able to trust that when this person is flagging something up to you or doing something, that they’re not trying to influence and control you as a way of gaining an advantage over you or deflecting from their own issues. This is unscrupulous, unfair, and yes, manipulative behaviour.
You also need to have trust in you and I would take this questioning as a wake-up call to have a very real and honest conversation with yourself because this relationship is bringing up a lot of self-doubt for you.
In all interpersonal relationships, you each need to be open to giving, receiving and processing feedback, which yes, might come in the form of criticism. When you know that you are in at minimum, a caring, respectful and trusting relationship or that you at least have this level of relationship with you, you can be open to hearing feedback without taking it as a personal attack, court order to change, or as 100% true.
If this person is flagging something up to you and you don’t feel that you can query it so that you can gain more clarity and/or they are speaking or behaving in ways that suggest that there will be negative consequences if you were to assert yourself, this is a big problem.
Here’s a quick way of knowing whether you’re being manipulated:
If as a result of whatever this person has said and done, you feel as if you have less rights and more responsibilities and that they have more rights and less responsibilities, they are saying and doing things to gain influence and control.
So for example, let’s say that you’re sensitive to criticism because you had a very critical parent and experienced bullying at work plus maybe you’re not the most confident of people and you’re now in a relationship with somebody who when you flag up something that you’re uncomfortable with, they say that you’re “too sensitive” and “making a big deal out of nothing”, sure, you can acknowledge that there is that sensitivity but it doesn’t mean that you can’t have an issue with what they’ve said. In a manipulative situation, after these comments, you would end up second-guessing your feelings and the right to speak up plus you’d likely try to avoid conflict and criticism with plenty of people pleasing and blame absorbing, all while this person now has free reign to say and do as they please while dodging taking responsibility. You might try to query their comment but they’ll keep saying that it’s your problems and use your reaction against you.
People who are manipulative have an agenda. People who aren’t are not invested in being and doing stuff to try to influence and control you into doing things their way so that they can gain an advantage over you. The latter want to see you grow for you not for them.
In a non-manipulative situation, if they did make a comment like that, you could turn around and query the unfairness of that comment and point out what you feel is their part in the situation. This doesn’t mean that an argument might not ensue but it will pave the way to greater understanding because both of you are open to seeing the other party’s position.
Ownership in this situation would mean each of you recognising your baggage behind the situation (the past experiences) while also getting a sense of what is happening right now.
Even when something is hard to hear or see, when someone treats and regards you with love, care, trust and respect and you them, you’re not going to think of them as manipulative. You’ll admit that problem even if it’s just to yourself first before you will question their integrity to such a great degree, so it’s important to identify where this concern that they might potentially be manipulating you is coming from so that you can bring the truth out into the open and handle it. I will go back to my opening point:
The fact that you are asking this question suggests that you are being manipulated and are downplaying very real concerns about this person and being plunged into self-doubt and blame.
One of my favourite questions for gaining inner clarity in perplexing situations is: What am I pretending not to already know?
In this situation, Anna, this question could become: Why do I think that X is manipulating me?
The answer is either going to tell you a lot about the relationship or it’s going to tell you about the baggage behind these concerns (e.g. past experiences of being manipulated).
Our relationships require us to know where we end and others begin. Without this, our boundaries are blurred and it becomes difficult to distinguish our feelings, perceptions and behaviour from others. Granted, we are always evolving and finding out new stuff about ourselves but if we have a good degree of self-knowledge and self-awareness, we’re unlikely to find ourselves in a situation where someone is telling us that we have a problem that we’re so unaware of that it doesn’t ring a bell with us. Pay attention to what they’re saying and doing and if you feel uncomfortable (you do), it’s a cue to be more boundaried. If this person is reliant on you reducing your boundaries, you have your answer.
Have you been confused about whether you were being manipulated? What did you do? What do you recognise now in hindsight?
To submit a question, email advicewednesday AT baggagereclaim.com. For in-depth guidance and support, I run an email and phone consultation service.
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As a recovering people pleaser and en ex narcissist magnet, I made a helpful boundary I call “the law of reciprocity.”
To be fair, I offer a two for one as an opening act of cooperation and kindness. Example, if you ask me for two small favors and I later ask you for one–you best bettah do it…or if I invite you out twice, then you might want to ask me out the third time. Same with apologies, compromises, coffee making, etc.
People who can’t or won’t compromise, and never apologize, are no longer eligible to stick around.
It takes almost no time these days to tell if I’m being manipulated. If it happens more than twice in a week or two…bye bye.
Yay, Karen! I’m doing something similar – and I also stopped chasing people. I realised I was always the one keeping in touch, and so I decided to leave it for however many weeks it took for the other person/s to get back in touch with me. It might’ve been months later, and they’d say, “Are you okay? I haven’t heard from you in ages.” I’d think, yes, well you *could* call or email me. But I’d answer anyway, and then they’d ghost me. Now, even if they do get back to me months later and say that, I don’t bother answering. They’re like those little dogs who always want you to chase them instead of bringing back the ball… Chase me! Chase me! I always felt manipulated by their need for narcissistic supply. I was anxious all the time, and now that anxiety has gone. It feels so freeing.
I love this! Smart idea!
Karen, Yes! I do the same thing! I’ve just started doing it with the level of sharing/listening. I’m discovering that it also applies there. Needs to be reciprocal or it does not work for me.
Cindy, Oh, the chase me people!! Had a guy try this on me over the weekend…hope he’s not holding his breath! 🙂
Thank you for this post, Nat. I’ve really struggled with establishing boundaries when it comes to relationships with family members and friends. I am used to being criticised and blamed for things, and because I dislike conflict so much, I never call them out on their behaviour or their words. However, when I don’t see this kind of relationship dynamic play out with others (i.e. manipulators with other friends/family) — I wonder why it is happening to me, and ask if I am the common denominator.
A close mutual friend had recently informed me that someone whom I believed was a good friend has an “issue” with me. This “issue” came about because I had decided not to continually let that person disrespect me, and stopped initiating in the friendship. I’ve been indecisive about whether or not to talk to this person directly to resolve it, but then realised that this person has never been able to self-reflect or empathise with how I feel — it’s always been about them, how I’ve hurt them, how I’ve been a bad friend, and wronged them. So I’ve decided to stand my ground and just let the friendship fade. I don’t think I can upkeep a high maintenance, demanding friendship anyway.
Having discovered this blog a few years back, I’ve realised that my lack of self-esteem, self-trust, and severe lack of boundaries had allowed people to walk all over me. Now having more self confidence, trust, and value in myself… I can say that putting boundaries in place is going to put some people off side but that’s just fine. Thank you for the reassurance that I’m finally doing the right thing by me!
Yes, Elle, you are the common denominator, and isn’t it great that you could see that in yourself and change. I asked myself that very same question years ago when I was always attracting people (not just guys, but girls in the typing pool, bosses, etc) who walked all over me and treated me like I was something nasty on their shoe. I’d see that they didn’t treat other people like that, only me. I lived in angst and felt miserable and depressed, and became pretty out of control (not drugs, but alcohol and sex).
Fast forward thirty years and a mountain-load of inner work and childhood healing, and I can see how my father chose me as his scapegoat, and said nasty things to me, and mind-f***ed me, but never, ever, my sister. In fact, she learned that behaviour from him and did the same, so I truly felt like the victim. And being a victim, of course, I then attracted abusers (who are also victims, but usually in denial). So complex and deep-seated have these issues been, I felt crazy inside, like I’d escaped a cult. In fact, I feel like I need to be de-programmed from said cult (or mini cult, as I refer to my family), and that’s where people like Natalie come in – helping to untangle the web that is spread throughout the victim’s whole life (love, money, well-being).
It’s a long and oft bumpy road to enlightenment, but I believe we’re the lucky ones. We’re the ones who have been forced into looking inside and and healing/letting go of our baggage, and raising our vibration in the process. Here’s to suffering, and the lessons we learn from it!!!! But once the lessons are learned, it’s time to leave the Victim Universe and find an alternate Universe where people afford us the kindness and respect we show them… and that we deserve…
Holy crap Cindy! I feel like yor poet is my life story. I have been dealing with so many people who have treated me badly lately and I feel like I am in agony. A couple of bad heartbreaks by narcissists that I can’t seem to get over. And my mom has been super cold to me these last few years, despite my efforts to make things good between us. I feel really sad about all of this heartbreaking and confusing rejection and honestly, I am a really really nice person. But people seem to constantly want to make me feel bad just because I try not to be a pushover. I really qm not even that strong about it. My mom has decided that my sister is the better person and I just end up feeling shitty around my family. I don’t know what I’ve done wrong, but it makes me feel terrible. I try to think about cutting all the jerks out of my life but I honestly feel like I’d have two good people left in my life if I followed through on that. What is wrong with me that people want to treat me this way?? Sorry to hear you have a similar dynamic.
Brea,
I listened to a video series on confidence recently and one of the exercises is to take a sheet of paper and write in two columns, those who rob you of your confidence and those who boost your confidence. Once you realize who is robbing you, you spend less time (if any) with them, and more time with those who boost it. And also you help boost those who boost you. No one is better than you and you are enough and you are worth being loved. So cut out all those bank robbers and if you only have two good people left, then so be it!
Brea, have you been setting some boundaries lately, or trying to? When I did that, my father got very cold as well, though he’s always been emotionally abusive. Your mother sounds manipulative, like she’s making you jump through hoops to please her, while pretending to favour your sister. And believe me, she doesn’t love your sister more, she’s using her to get to you. It’s all a little game – we just don’t know the rules, because the rules always change. It makes you feel crazy, doesn’t it? My parents always played my sister and I off each other, so we didn’t end up with much of a relationship either.
I’ve gradually cut all of the crazy-makers out of my life, because I realised that it was making me ill having toxic people around (I have an autoimmune disease, where the body attacks itself. I believe that it’s from all the projected ‘stuff’ I’ve absorbed since childhood). If you do it, Brea, and there are only two good people in your life, you’re pretty well off, I reckon… I decided I would be better off completely alone than with abusers, alcoholics, and codependents in my circle – and I was right. I also stopped trying to gain my father’s approval, though every now and then I trip up, but I catch myself before the fall now… I feel less crazed, and have this beautiful ‘space’ inside where it was once turmoil *all* the time.
Don’t be afraid of the emptiness inside when you let go of the drama – that’s the state that spiritually evolving people want to achieve. It can feel foreign and frightening, and I believe we go for all this drama in order to avoid the pain of the emptiness, but once you achieve it, you no longer want the drama.
Although I don’t know you, I’m just guessing that it’s probably nothing bad that you’ve done – rather that your family may see that you’re growing, and they want to maintain the status quo by pulling you down to your ‘place’. It’s entirely up to you which path you choose… All the best 🙂
Cindy, Sounds like we grew up in a similar household. It’s so painful. I’m in the process of clearing out the last few toxic folks. Getting better at trusting my gut and not letting them in in the first place.
I’m starting to attract healthier people! I’m so excited!!
So good to hear stories of people who made it to the other side! Thank you for your insights.
Thanks for the reply, Cindy. Yes, I am the common denominator in having allowed people to disrespect me — but now I realize that their behavior says more about them, than they do about me! I think also, growing up in a home with emotionally abusive parents has led to some of my own people-pleasing, co-dependent, non-confrontational behavior. Though, reading Nat’s blog has helped me to become more self-aware which has really changed my life and the way I view relationships now.
I agree that we are lucky to have learned from our mistakes, but it is and will still be (at least for me), a journey. I am finding now that I am attracting people who are more like-minded, and have made some lovely friends who have made our friendship feel genuine, kind, respectful and mutual. I haven’t felt this happy in a long time! I’m also glad to hear that you are healing and no longer letting toxic people manipulate and hurt you!
Hi Elle – Yes, it’s a continuing journey for me also. I just signed up for Natalie’s e-course, Calm Your Inner Critic (and Tune In To Your Inner Voice). I’m up to day 7 (it’s a 30 day course), and my body is having a clear-out with an upset tummy, which doesn’t surprise me. I do tend to hold emotions in my gut and solar plexus. The most alarming thing I’ve realised from doing the course is that my parents’ voices/criticisms are playing like a subliminal tape, and even though I try to not criticise myself, it’s happening at a deeper level, with feelings rather than words. Now that I’ve made that connection, I can move forward, but I didn’t even realise they were still controlling me – that’s how subliminal tapes work… I want to scream sometimes, but the difference is that now I feel excited when I find more ‘stuff’ to heal, rather than despairing and defeated.
Elle, you’re fortunate to have formed some mutually respectful and supportive friendships. I think it’s great that you’ve opened up to better treatment. I’ve been working on my own for so long (and isolated with my illness) that I haven’t made any new friends. I am quite self-sufficient, and happy on my own, but I don’t want to be *too* self-sufficient, and miss out on the joy and enrichment of life that good friendships can bring. So my goal is to make some friends who are doing the work as well…
Thank you, Natalie – another very timely post! I’ve just been asking the same question, and I *may* be questioning because of a lifetime of being manipulated and controlled by family, etc., and not because the person is trying to manipulate me. I know I’ve changed, but it’s so new to have boundaries that I don’t quite trust myself yet.
I find I do need those tests every now and then to see whether I really have grown, or whether I just think I have, and I can go from there. It’s so good to be re-reading The Dreamer as well as reading your posts – I’m in need of that again at the moment, just to keep myself from drifting off into fantasy land… xxx
Thankyou Nat this is so pertinent to my state right now. My partner ended saying he could not commit on Sunday evening after I had buried my father’s ashes. I am in a crisis of double grief and again reached out to him this morning and he has not responded. I am feeling like I will explode with sadness and loss. I know my self esteem has to be addressed but I have real grief to get through and I have to find it within myself to survive. So important to have your post to refer to. Anna
Dear Anna, I am so very sorry to hear about your recent grief. I hope you let yourself have the time to just sit with this grief. Just experience the loss that it is to lose a parent. And know that over the years, and centuries, people have experienced it and know what you feel – this is no consolation to losing a parent, but when my dad died I was struck by how grief is so essential and pure, it is such a basic human experience to lose someone. We have so much in common with each other, with people we haven’t even met, with people in books – rather than people that cannot feel and empathize with us.
By turning to this man, who is not ready or capable right now to deal with your loss, you are also trying to escape the real grief. When you turn to him, you are trying to turn to a more manageable pain to deal with the pain that will likely only ever be dulled – we do get over breakups, we never really get over the loss of a parent. It sits with us always. I guess I’m trying to tell you that you should allow yourself to fully experience the grief of losing your father. And perhaps by sitting with it, it will put life in perspective for you. I hope you have some other family and friends that can help you through this time, you should turn to them. Or to a grief counselor.
Dear Anna, I’m so sorry to hear of your recent loss of your father. When my mother died, I felt completely at a loss too, and then I felt angry. Grief is a complex group of emotions, and being in it, really being present, is the only way to get through it. Nobody else can do that for us – we really are alone in our grief… Losing a parent, no matter what the relationship had been, is a difficult transition in life, and turning to someone who is unable to empathise is only making you feel more anxious, but also, as Suki says, it’s a way for you to avoid the real impact of your grief. Stay in it, and know that it *will* get better… Take care…
Anna, I’m sorry I’m a bit late to this but just wanted to say how sorry I am for your loss. I think your partner on some level did not feel he could be there for you in the way that you need. I know that it must feel doubly-painful because you are now dealing with two losses but the truth is, if he’d hung about, he might have detracted from your grief in the sense that you would have been feeling confused and hurt over what would have undoubtedly been his unsupportive behaviour. You can and will survive and right now, I know it hurts so very much but you will be OK. In time you will look back and be thankful that he exited now. You can handle this. Small steps every day and draw on the support of loved ones. Hugs, Natalie xx
Ok, first off i wanna say ask your self if getting advice off the internet from a complete stranger who knows nothing about you, who just makes genral opinionised statements on how they think a relationship to work is really a good idea. Second the person giving the advise is not perfect them selves, and they are making a business off of unhappy people who are looking for answers or a way out. I think its not right to butt into peoples lives and put your two cents. This site actually made problems in my relationship a couple years back. Thats why im writing this. I think if you look too deeply into something it takes away from what it really is and thats what this site is a way for hurt or confused people to make sense of things.
Shawn,
I think reading off the internet can be a very useful tool: we learn to take what we like and leave the rest. Natalie teaches us to unravel very complex issues and she does so with wisdom and honesty. So, if you don’t like what she says, perhaps you should look elsewhere.
I found this very useful. It is hard to have boundaries for me and I question my own right to set them. I love the comment above about not chasing people, that some people are like the dog who doesn’t bring the ball back but makes you chase them to get it. Reciprocation is becoming a huge clue for me that I am not in a healthy relationship. If I don’t get it back then I know this person is high maintenance and a time waster.
I love how timely your articles are Nat! I just had a woman friend whom I like because she makes me laugh, badly bust my boundaries. I am losing my mother and working three jobs and asked her to give me some space. She texted me daily after that (down from twice daily so I guess she thought that was observing my boundary) so my second drawing of the line was to say, “You take a lot of energy and I can’t handle your energy right now.” Still almost daily texting so I said, “You take more than you give. Please stop texting me.” She texted back “ouch” and called me three days later! I finally got angry(er) and said, “I am blocking your texts.” And she sent me a scathing email saying I was #@@*** etc… And fine! We were DONE!
Well, as I was reading this blog I realized I already knew she was a selfish taker and that I tolerated her taking because I had the energy to do so. She was not a person I could turn to for comfort and support during my mother’s demise. She only took and gave me back a laugh in return. I’ve noticed with boundaries it is always ME that learns something about what I was tolerating or not admitting. My friend is an exhausting taker and I could only handle her energy about once a month yet she called or texted almost daily so that I ended up giving to her each week. Manipulated by another needy-greedy.
My mother’s looming death is really clearing out the deadwood in my emotional circle. It takes everything I have to simply work and survive. I am really seeing who is there for me and whom I am counseling for nothing. Bye-bye pushy friend. Bye-bye non-committal lover. Bye-bye draining awful second job. I feel alone but good. Its like I can just breathe.
LauraG, I’m so sorry to hear about your mother… It’s such a difficult process to witness and experience, isn’t it? It’s wonderful, though, that you’re being kind to yourself and letting go of the takers and the chase-me people. Creating healthy boundaries now will also help you through your grief (I think we start grieving with the illness – at least that’s what I did). At the time when my own mother died (almost 20 years ago), I was in a very unhealthy state, and her death really propelled me forward like a blast from a cannon. My thoughts are with you. Take care…
Shawn,
You have also made a generalised statement about this site without taking the time to read it. Many times Nat helped me see when I was being overly anxious and overthinking a new relationship because of my past experiences . I like what you said about “if you look too deeply at something it takes away from what it really is ” this is absolutely true and exactly what Nat site says too sometimes what it is “really is” a good thing you’re feeling unnecessarily insecure about but a lot of the time what it is “really is” is a shit relationship you’re stuck deep overanalysing when the top line data of even the first few weeks relationship was already telling you to get out. I wish you the best in your relationship but Nat site has not caused me any problems at all.
It hasn’t caused me problems either. At the end of the day, how can having healthy boundaries, self-respect and knowing about amber/red flag behaviour create problems in a relationship? If they do then it says more about the situation than Nat’s site. All these things have been discussed in the field of psychology and counselling for years anyway so it’s like arguing ‘Knowing about psychology is problematic’.
I was thinking the same thing, Clare – creating healthy boundaries in a boundaryless relationship CAN cause problems… and thank goodness! If it causes problems, and both parties work through the issues, the relationship will grow and prosper. If the other party takes exception to having a boundary in place, there will be no growth. In this case you either move on, or go back to being boundaryless and complacent, in which case the manipulator has won.
Nat’s books and web site have helped me enormously, and I find that often the lesson of the week is one I’ve been working though myself, so, very timely…
‘through’ myself, not though :-/
Shawn,
Natalie has NEVER made herself out to be perfect! In fact this is what makes her advice so encouraging. This information can help you get insight into your behavior and assist you into understanding the role you may play in your happiness. I don’t know about you but sometimes knowing that other people are going through what you are going through can make you feel better about yourself and is actually uplifting.
Ok, first off i wanna say ask your self if getting advice off the internet from a complete stranger who knows nothing about you, who just makes genral opinionised statements on how they think a relationship to work is really a good idea.
Getting another persons perspective is often helpful. Doubting your own opinion or not having confidence and conviction to act on it is a symptom. One is always free to not listen or follow any advice or continue to hold own opinions on whatever the subject.
Second the person giving the advise is not perfect them selves, and they are making a business off of unhappy people who are looking for answers or a way out.
Nat doesn’t want people to be unhappy. Her intentions mean more than her lack of perfection. No harm in providing a service for a fee but a lot of her information etc is given publicly for free here. All she does is help people you just admitted are already looking for an out (will end up getting out one way or another eventually) or possible answers they haven’t discovered or been given by others.
I think its not right to butt into peoples lives and put your two cents.
All the abusive people I’ve come across are very private /secrecy loving. Harder to abuse people when they won’t hide it for you. If it’s not abusive it shouldn’t reflect too negatively on you. People will forget it 2 days later because it’s boring. I hate gossip as much as any person however people are allowed to talk about you especially if you are involved with them.
This site actually made problems in my relationship a couple years back. Thats why im writing this.
Your relationship wouldn’t have been perfect without this site existing.
I think if you look too deeply into something it takes away from what it really is
Over thinking is terrible. There are several post related to it. This site has personally helped calm my over thinking (thanks Nat!).Some counter would be ‘unexamined life is not worth living’. Many readers are stuck doing the same thing unconsciously and need it to be brought to a conscious level by examining it.
It’s much harder to make terrible decision when you stop and think about it. High pressure sales /abusive/manipulative people often utilize time (one day sale early move in etc) to rush people into committing without thought. If whatever it is is really real it will only deepen ones appreciation of it to think it through.
and thats what this site is a way for hurt or confused people to make sense of things.
I agree but it has never in my reading experience done or purposed anything harmful. It’s about making healthy choices for yourself but the person reading needs to apply that knowledge or not for themselves. She never tells people to be someone they aren’t or use tactics or any such anti social or self denying things I’ve seen at other “relationship advice” sites. It’s a supportive helpful environment that’s accessible.
Are you the same person who was posting as ‘Shawn’?
I’m having problems knowing how to respond to that last post to be honest ’cause it jumps from thought to thought and also parts of it are contradictory – like these two bits:
‘This site actually made problems in my relationship a couple years back. Thats why im writing this.’
and yet you say:
‘Your relationship wouldn’t have been perfect without this site existing.’
Also I can’t work out whether you’re trying to paraphrase others and then give your responses to what they’re saying? Because your final para. seems to suddenly turn into a *defence* of this site? *totally confused*.
Not really sure why you have a problem with someone on the internet giving advice based on their own experiences either. It’s not ‘butting into people’s lives’; readers are grown adults who can take or leave what Nat says (it’s not a cult!) but clearly most of us find it insightful. If you don’t then you don’t have to read it – and I still don’t see how anything here would cause problems in a *healthy* relationship.
If someone has a gift of being able to easily see what’s happening in a situation and then help others ’cause of it, what’s the harm in that? Also when you say Nat doesn’t know people’s specific situations the interesting thing about dodgy people/abusers is that it’s as if they operate from the same playbook – they’re using a narrow range of manoeuvres hence why it’s possible for relationship advisors like Nat to see what’s going on without knowing the actual people concerned.
Hi Claire A. This person is a baiter.
Trollers. Well, it can happen on almost any site, and…it’s he—ere…re. Like Poltergeist.
Just my opinion. And Veracity, you spoke about it too…… I admit I urbanDictionaried the term “baiter”…to get the meaning of that term in today’s world. Spot on.
Yes, Claire – I thought it was Shawn too. I wouldn’t bother giving any energy to this person, who obviously likes attention and doesn’t know how to get it in healthy ways. An energy zapper, maybe?
“this site is a way for hurt or confused people to make sense of things.” Couldn’t agree more. I found the site at a time when I was hurt and confused. Now I am able to make-sense of things. I call that enough to be grateful and thankful for having Natalie’s opinions in my life. If she makes a few coins in the process, bully for her!
This post has helped me come to a realization about my last, extremely difficult break up. And my general reactions in life. “Blame absorber” fits me perfectly. I am always trying to figure out what is wrong with ME when something goes wrong, instead of realizing that the only thing that I do “wrong” for the most part is not enforcing my boundaries ,or ignoring my intuition about red flags. Thank you!!
C, you hit the nail on the head there – blame absorber…
My BF and I were high school sweethearts (both married 22 yrs) when we reconnected 5 years ago. He was unhappy and so was I, both left our marriages, though he continued to co-habitatr with his ex for 3 years due to financial reasons, not ready to sell their house and him wanting to avoid court. During this time, his wife contacted my ex-husband (still to this day, none of us are divorced), and the two of them began a 4-year full on affair as a result of our actions. During this time, his wife still cried and maintained that she loved my lover ( her husband). There were a couple in person confrontations between her and I, where she said he was telling her he loved her, and was co-habiting in the same bed the whole time over the 3+years. She even said they had been intimate and had oral sex on numerous occasions and that he told her he wanted to “work on things” with her and was no longer seeing me. Which I told her she was crazy and none of this was true, it was wishful thinking on her part and she read more into what her husband was saying, hearing only what she wanted to hear. Over the next few months I put my foot down, told him it was her or me. Finally on year 4, he moved out of their house for 15 months and got his own apartment. The whole time seeing me, spending time together, telling me he loves me – yet won’t move in with me, as his job is an hour commute from my house and says he won’t move in with me until the divorce is final; due to financial commitments he must wait until the house has sold in order for us to get a place together. I have attended his family reunions, holidays with his parents and brothers, and am considered now part of his family. It is understood that he is separated and that his marriage was over long ago, they also know of her affair with my husband/ex. Fast forward to 5 years – after 15 months, he has moved back into the house he shares with his wife. He has been back 5-1/2 months. He states that they share different rooms and it is strictly a roommate situation- she has no job and nowhere else to go. She has since cut off all contact with my ex, he calls me to discuss this often, as he cannot understand how she cut him off so cold, will no longer speak to him for the past 5 months – he really loves her. I feel sorry for him. I still continue to see my lover, we are planning a future together. I understand his living arrangements but am wondering how much longer this will last. My ex called me about a month ago and told me his friend witnessed them together at a beach, this friend also knows her. Friend said they were camping together, headed down th coast. Now mind you, my lover told me he was there by himself, texted me the whole time, says he was there to take pictures with his camera (it’s his hobby). I believe him. When is she going to get a life and move on? Why doesn’t she leave the house, since he is the one paying for it. I think this woman has done enough damage to all of our lives. He is still paying for her everything! My lease is up in December, I’m anxious to have our life together and tiring of waiting/hearing about her. Can you give me any advice on this crazy situation?
Anne, just a thought here, but you may be addicted to drama. Perhaps you could seek some professional help to sort yourself out…
Oh Holy Matrimony Batman!! i actually followed that??? Beam me up please Scotty!!! This gal believes the other gal in the square should move on and get a life!! Her lover is at the top of the food chain and is the player and the pimp both. Anne, please take your own advice now and I do mean now!!!!
Thank you for writing this. It was very helpful for me to gain much needed perspective. I’ve always had trouble distinguishing whether someone was projecting character traits onto me because it suited them and justified their own behavior, or if I really had that charachter trait.