I had a strange feeling though, and I can’t shake it. He is 40, handsome, has a good job, but he’s only had two relationships in his life – a high school girlfriend and a girlfriend 7 years ago that was long distance (and they only dated for a year). This seemed strange because I couldn’t find any reason that women wouldn’t be throwing themselves at him.
Several dates in, we had a disagreement as he’d begun sending me sexual texts. I’m not comfortable being sexual with someone who is still active on dating websites, and I told him so. He got mad and told me I had no right to ask him to leave the website. He stopped talking to me. Bummed because he seemed great, I discussed it with a friend who advised that he was probably right as we weren’t committed. After emailing him an apology, the sexting continued.
Once we started having sex, I learned that he’s into some very strange things. He wants me to do things to him that gay men do to each other (if you catch my drift). Also he watches a lot of porn and his favourite includes young girls about 14-16. It really bothered me because the porn is not fake—they are videos that the girls made themselves to send to a boyfriend or something. I tried to get him to see that it was wrong, but he insisted that all guys like that type of porn and its normal. I can’t make him feel sorry for the girls. He also watches a lot of other strange porn.
A few weeks later he asked me to be his girlfriend, went off the website and invited me to meet his parents and given me the key to his apartment, so things were going really well, however, one time he said he was going to work and on his return home, he texted a photo of him naked on the couch. The time and date stamp was when he was supposed to be at work. I asked him how he took the picture when he was at work and he called me crazy. I can’t prove it but I suspect that he sent the picture to someone else.
Last weekend, we had a lovely evening together and then he left to go to another town 3 hours away to coach soccer. That night I was texting with him and he mentioned that he was meeting a friend for dinner but sounded kinda shady. I shared this with a friend who advised that I snoop around his apartment. I know it’s wrong but I couldn’t shake my unease and wanted proof of something. When I got to his apartment, to my surprise, he was home. I told him I’d come to pick up earrings I’d left behind but I was shocked that he was home because he’d said he was at dinner. I didn’t speak to him for a few days but then he called full of excuses about why he couldn’t tell me he was coming back home—apparently he didn’t want to text and drive and that was just getting ready to tell me when I arrived.
I want to believe he’s a good man because he has so much potential and wants to introduce me to his parents. He normally treats me very well when we are together, we love watching a show together and playing trivia games. He trusted me with his key and I’ve introduced him to my children. I see a future with him. What should I believe?
************
Christine, what you need to believe right now is that you’re with a man who is into watching pornography that features underage girls—you do know that’s illegal?—and his sexual values are not compatible with you, being around your children, or in fact coaching children in soccer or children full stop. He is not the ‘good man’ you so desperately want to believe him to be. This man has potential…to find himself on the registered sex offenders list and spend time behind bars.
Just like alcoholics don’t look like someone rolling around in a bush with a bottle in a brown paper bag, paedophiles and sex offenders don’t have a special ‘look’.
They have jobs, sometimes they’re a parent, they help out the elderly, go to church, donate to charity, are sometimes world-renowned and talented, and the former perversely gravitate to working in jobs or partaking in extra-curricular activities that involve them being around children. Being in possession of and watching child pornography, even if you think that ‘child’ doesn’t seem like one, is a criminal offence pretty much wherever you go, and all that aside, it makes him a no-go as a relationship partner.
You are involved with a charming man who seems to have few sexual inhibitions, a porn addiction, scant regard for your feelings or the truth never mind for the basics of forging a romantic relationship, and who is prone to manipulation including gaslighting. No matter how much you like a TV show, playing trivia games, how gentlemanly he seems, or the fact that he wants to introduce you to his parents, the truth cannot be obscured.
There are so many things wrong with this situation and the fact that you have continued with this sociopath masquerading as a gentleman causes me to wonder, Why is Christine so OK with this situation? Why does this feel like home?
You’re clearly not into what he’s into but you’re at home around the charming man creating the picture of respectability while being deviant behind the scenes. Who else has been like this in your life?
You seem confused about what is and isn’t acceptable behaviour and keep overriding your gut, the blatant facts in front of you, and your responsibilities, causing me to wonder what accepting the truth about him and this situation represents to you. What will it mean about someone else?
Sometimes we have gotten so used to denying the truth about something or someone else that when we meet someone else who is revealing the truth through their own inappropriate behaviour, we on some level feel terrified of being disloyal to the original perpetrator and calling a spade a spade.
This man is abusing you and you think he’s a “gentleman”.
You say that you couldn’t find any reason why women wouldn’t be throwing themselves at him—I see too many. You only know about the two women he’s mentioned, not about the numerous others who’ve run for the hills or like you, initially tried to stick it out only for them to experience something too horrible to ignore. He can’t form intimate relationships and he uses the job, coaching etc., as a cover of respectability.
I suspect he’s on the hunt for a naive, too nice for her own good, non-confrontational future wife that he can install at home as a beard to keep ‘society’ off his back while he gets up to his mischief underground until one day the cops or some specialist unit come swooping in to raid your home or to reveal some other horror that he’s escalated to. Don’t let that day come.
No doubt his parents are wondering why he hasn’t settled down yet. My spidey sense also tells me that the key to his apartment is part of a setup—maybe it was to catch him at home that time so he can up the ante with the gaslighting. Maybe you were supposed to snoop and uncover other horrors, or maybe you were supposed to catch him up to something. He hasn’t “trusted you with his key”; you’re being gaslighted and set up. Run for your life.
And find some new friends; thanks to the first one and refusing to respect your own boundaries, you apologised to this man and started sleeping with him, a signal in his game that you are the right ‘mark’. You have a right to your boundaries and no, you couldn’t make him leave those websites but you had every right to draw your line about not engaging in sexual activity with him. Again, this was a setup including the silent treatment. Incidentally, there was no need to snoop for proof–he showed you who he was.
You then act as a passive participant in his sexual shenanigans and you make an attempt to advocate for the girls, encouraging him to feel sorry for them. Christine, I know you mean well but your job is not to make him feel sorry for the girls—your job is to get the frick out of there. Do you feel sorry for these girls or do you on some level reason that if they’ve made the videos, it can’t be helped that they’re now being watched? They’re being exploited. Even adult women who get involved in porn have often not made an autonomous choice. And even if it was ‘fake’, so staged for a film, underage is underage! Jacked up is jacked up!
I can assure you that what he’s doing isn’t “normal”, it’s not what “all” men do, and it is 100% OK to not be OK with what he is and opt out.
If you wrote to me and you were saying, ‘My boyfriend likes me to do things to his bottom that I don’t like doing’, I would not be writing this same letter to you, but I will say that if you don’t share similar sexual values, it’s an uphill struggle in coercion, guilt and sexual rejection. But this isn’t about your boyfriend being into anal; this is about the fact that your boyfriend is into other shady and illegal pornographic material that he’s only given you a taster of. You’re seeing the tip of the iceberg, not the iceberg itself.
You are not alone in your experience, sadly. I’ve heard from many women who have the unease and seem frozen in indecision and shame. We don’t like to believe what we know. We prefer the dream to the nightmare of the reality.
You’re not going to make him spontaneously combust into a different man and nothing that he’s doing is being caused by you or can be changed by you. What you can change is your involvement.
Please un-introduce this man to your children and remove him from your life without notice. He is dangerous. I don’t know what went down between you and your ex-husband but you’re not damaged goods that has to settle for any ole thing she can get. Keep in mind also that anyone you bring into your life is being brought into your children’s lives. It’s okay to want a relationship but you don’t need a man to give you life or to take care of your kids—you can do these things yourself. Be with a man who is upstanding indoors and outdoors.
It’s critical that you spend time with a professional to identify the earlier experiences that contributed to your involvement with this man so that you can heal and take care of you. Forgive you for what you did not know and recognise the journey that you’ve taken to this juncture. When we grow up around an abuser, it messes with our fight/flight reflex–we learn to go towards danger instead of away from it. Please take care of your present and younger self with compassion and healthy boundaries.
Have you been with somebody who you can’t believe they’re as bad as you think and you want to believe in their potential?
UPDATE: Christine brilliantly moved on from this predator and reported him to the police as well as agencies but they haven’t done anything. She also understands the connection to her past. Please remember as well that as distasteful and predatory as this man’s behaviour is, that he’s abusive and that previous abuse has contributed to Christine being targeted and her feeling confused.
Each Wednesday, I help a reader to solve a dilemma. To submit a question, please email advicewednesdayAT baggagereclaim.com. If you would prefer your question to be featured on the podcast, drop a line to podcast AT baggagereclaim.com. Keep questions below 200 words. For in-depth support, book a clarity session or coaching.
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This was a chilling read. I really hope Christine gets the hell out of there.
Chilling, yes — but not exactly uncommon in this day and age as Nat points out. The Internet is concentrating the freaks as if they are normal — regardless of how you meet them.
Not too long ago, roughly a year, maybe two by now — I met a guy offline at a function that yes, I wanted to believe in the potential. I think I was kind of caught up in the “we met cute” phenomenon — I was really happy that it *seemed like* normal relating. But–so many things also didn’t add up, that I was questioning, in a relatively short amount of time. Not as bad as the lady above, but stuff like I thought X was supposed to happen but Y did so hey, let’s be “spontaneous.” No, it’s not “spontaneous,” I was being set up — and possibly by more than 1 person, also a friend of his involved.
Make a long story short — no, it wasn’t “meet cute,” I was probably a mark.
I processed and picked things apart with a friend who told me in no uncertain terms — similar to what Nat has done here for this lady — that the guy was a sociopath and if I went forward I’d end up chopped in little pieces (both mental and physical).
I’d say, be very careful and aware when who the person is online vs. what they are offline do not add up. We have a tendency to believe that because *we* are normal that everybody else should be or want to be (e.g. not someone who enjoys illegal sex acts). But that’ not the case, at all. My gut was telling me things, but I was “checking” — just another hour, just another drink — maybe it’s this, maybe it’s that — I had a really hard time believing that being alone with the guy really could end up with his (rather large) hands around my throat or worse. Because. . .how could *I* possibly be “that girl” — the one one the news, the one on the shows, the one that has a horror story?
I wrote about this a couple posts back in detail — check it out — about how much harder it is to get to know someone when you’re alone with him on “dates” and then having sex. This lady is all like “but we do this and that” — none of what she said was important about the relationship was emotional and about love, care, trust, respect. She didn’t say “we talk, we’re growing, I feel like I can really trust him.” Quite the opposite — she knows on some level she can’t trust him but doesn’t trust that feeling b/c meanwhile he’s acting a certain way and she’s responding appropriately to what is all an act. I wrote about this previously — check it out — but it sounds like to me the guy was out primarily to get sexual needs met, in this case, deviant, illegal needs. Not to be in a intimate partnership. The key, meeting parents, etc. — is staging so that the “relationship” seems “real.”
Just as in my dangerous situation. I vaguely remember the guy I met rather quickly mentioning bondage or something else rough like that. Strange for the first few “dates,” no? My friend pointed out sort of like Nat did, that it was the tip of the iceberg. The guy probably didn’t want “nice bondage,” done to me, it was probably going to be something far worse than that. With not just him involved, I might add.
The thing is, I knew better on some level. The thing is, I’ve gotten comfortable at protecting myself physically but I really had to take several steps back to look for the emotional signs, such as gaslighting. My “potential” didn’t go so far as to outright call me crazy — but things I questioned were explained away as rational. Now that I think about it, it’s not like he sympathized or empathized along the lines of “What are you concerned about? Here, let me give you the phone number of the person or I will ask directly” more like “so and so and I say X is okay, therefore it’s okay.” == denying my reality == gaslighting==dangerous.
I feel like adding that not only is the lady in danger, also the kids. Not only is SHE a mark, but her children. Certainly possible he made her his “girlfriend” to get to the kids. Plus, kids have friends too, right? Right.
Chilling, yes. But not uncommon. Yes, I think we all ignore our guts from time to time, we want to believe. Believing feels good! But sometimes, due to prior conditioning from an abuser somewhere that bad behavior is normal — you just don’t know until you KNOW. Hopefully that happens before you (or your kids, etc.) get really, really hurt. Bad.
Sooner or later this guy will be arrested of possession of child porn.
He is never going to be acceptable husband material or stepdad material, unless you want your children’s life story to include the part where their stepdad went to prison for child pornography.
RUN
Yea please enter therapy to find out why you have chosen to remain in this situation and get the hell out. Now you know why he hasn’t had many relationships. Good luck girl.
Yes to everything that has been said. Run fast and far, he is a pedophile he is a criminal and he is an abuser. I would even say after you are well away I would consider calling the cops yourself. You can do it anonymously, or go to a required reporter, like the head of the soccer league, but this guy is coaching kids! You didn’t say how old the soccer teams are, but if they are in the range he prefers he could be grooming the players.
Obviously don’t do anything that makes you or your family unsafe, but if you can I’d consider letting someone in authority know and get this man away from children.
That was my first thought too, he’s coaching kids and possibly grooming them (or their friends and siblings). My other concern is he knows what you’ve seen (the underage videos etc) and I worry he’s going to turn even more dangerous so please make your exit a very well planned and safe one for yourself and your kids. And for gods sake, please report him to the police, we do not need anyone, especially another parent, covering up his disgusting and vile interests in our kids. Ugh. Now…where’s the bleach? I feel like I need to bathe in it…
I did file a police report, the local FBI, and made a report with CPS. It seems they aren’t very concerned since I deleted the text thread when I went “no contact” and don’t have the video he sent me. I do however, have screenshots of him explaining to me why he thinks the girl in the video is “at least 16” and that makes it ok. I gave the screenshots to the police, but they need the video to make a move. I looked him up on been verified, and he has 14 expunged criminal records in another state, so he wasn’t found guilty and I don’t have any information on why he was arrested, but 14 is unusual. The records are from a state where he used to live and coach.
I know there are way more important issues at hand but if that’s you in the picture girl,you are beautiful. Move on and get a real prince charming. Especially since you have kids and he is a paedophile. Be thankful that he revealed judgment early on and it didn’t scale to one of your kids coming to tell you that he’d attempted to victimize them.
And yes, I have worried that I “know too much”. I must be a threat to him.
Yes, he likes to watch videos of girls about 14-16. He coached girls age 14-19.
You think that the police are not watching him, but they are watching and building a case against him. He can do real time in jail for this, such as over 10 years. If you were in his home or in his bed when the raid went down, you could be implicated by association, and will spend the rest of your life trying to explain “you knew nothing about it.” Well, actually, you DID know about it, and you will fail a polygraph test because when they ask you if you were “involved” you will read a false positive as you try to think of how to “get out of it.”
The guys like this know they are bringing you down too, and some do know they will ruin your lives in the process. They are damaged goods, not the women, and they want to damage other people if they can. They will participate in rough sex, bondage, and whatnot and it will start with simple hair pulling, simple slapping in the face and next thing you know you will be abused.
The best advice you have is to determine that you really don’t have feelings for him, you have the fantasy of what you wanted with him. He will turn on you, on anyone at the drop of a hat, you may not have seen that side yet, but you will. These guys will propose or even marry a woman, then sexually abuse the woman’s children under the guise of “well, the kids were lonely and just needed a cuddle” but they will start inappropriately touching the kids – because guess what? They look at these videos and think it is okay!! You will NEVER ever be able to turn back the dial if this type of guy gets to traumatize your kids, you could lose your children spiritually, emotionally and physically if you are sent to jail with this psychopath. He is not for you, you can do WAY better. Be alone for awhile and let this sink in before you try to date anyone else. I am speaking from experience……
There is a forum for the parents of the soccer team and it is anonymous. I have thought about making g a post there, but I’m afraid he will know it’s me. He is capable of horrible things, and that’s what stops me.
Horrible things? Yes, like raping these little girls. You need to report him. It’s not about you. You can be saving lives here.
Christine – Re: Reporting him
That’s why you need to leave it with the authorities rather than deal with it yourself, i.e., writing about it on the soccer team message board. You have to consider your legal position too.
Yes, I agree. I could be sued for slander.
I felt slightly soiled just reading that original post… I agree with everyone else; Christine needs to investigate why she hasn’t felt completely creeped out and didn’t head for the hills when he first stopped talking to her.
It really does make me sigh when people justify their own horrendous/just plain stupid behaviours by describing them as normal and that “everyone does it”.
What a ****
Christine, my name is also Christine. I was sexually abused by a pedophile I met online from ages 11 to 15. PLEASE for the love of god call the cops. Please.
I’m so sorry for your suffering. I assure you that I have reported him to CPS, the local FBI office, and our local police department. They are unable to investigate because the only proof I have is screenshots of our text messages. I was told “it’s not illegal to be creepy”.
Christine,
I can relate to everything you wrote. I am now an avid reader of BR because I related to and then moved in with a man just like your charming gentleman. I was, as Natalie described it, the perfect woman for my psychopath: I was naive, gullible, lonely, and had been sexually abused and confused by my narcissistic father. He, too, was a charming gentleman who married my young naive mother and taught me to (inadvertatnly) seek out men just like him Until now. I am changing my patterns and you can, too, But you MUST be honest with yourself. Follow that gut feeling. Protect your children and protect the little girl inside of you.
My charming gentleman gaslighted, too. I didn’t even know what the term meant until I had a dream about “hidden women.” They were everywhere — affairs, exes, on line chats — and one day I went to his office and found HOURS AND HOURS of disgusting and frightening porn. I was, at this point, living with him, dependent, far from family and friends and scared. Of all things, his ex-wife (the one who had been married to him while he was dating me and that I didn’t know about) secretly contacted me because she was worried about me. She told me to read “The Psychopath Next Door,” and I did. A chilling read and one I’d recommend. You need to be afraid because this is not a normal person.
I can’t fully understand why I was so gullible except to say I didn’t realize until this relationship that my father was a sociopath, too. It was the two-by-four blow I needed in life. It brought me to Natalie and I am very glad to have found her and her wisdom. To all the other readers on this site I would share this: porn addiction is a new and rampaging addiction. Like other addictions it changes brain chemistry and men become unable to perform without it. Their needs for aberrant sexuality escalate the more the watch it and studies show they need younger and younger and more and more. Please, ladies, see this as a red flag. It is not normal but it has become “normalized.” Our world tries to tell us its ok, but it is not. I have sons and it breaks my heart to have their sexuality ruined by this pervasive new trend. Do not tolerate it.
Hope you get out, girl. Don’t lose five years of your life to a charming gentleman like I did.
porn addiction is a new and rampaging addiction. Like other addictions it changes brain chemistry and men become unable to perform without it. Their needs for aberrant sexuality escalate the more the watch it and studies show they need younger and younger and more and more.
Sounds like Whatsisname the former spokesman for Subway
Apart from what has been said, what got my attention was that you wrote “… but I couldn’t shake my unease and wanted proof of something.”
I used to feel like this in the past and then I realized:
Am I actually waiting, wanting to find or even activelly searching for “the big mistake”, “the proof”? What am I doing? Seeking an official permission to leave? Why do I need it? So that I can explain the break up to my family, friends or to myself? If I need it to explain the break up to myself, how am I explaining staying with the guy while I’m desperately searching for a way out?
You don’t need any official reason or permission to stop seeing somebody. Simple “I don’t feel well enough and secure enough to continue with this relationship, I want to end it” is sufficient, is fair and is really OK.
As to your last question “What should I believe?” You answered it yourself.
You wrote “I want to believe he’s a good man”. You *want* to believe. So you clearly don’t believe it now. You already believe he is NOT a good man. Don’t try to force yourself to see it differently. No potential or promises can outweight something as basic as this. You didn’t get this attitude out of nowhere. Trust it.
Well put and so true, Livia. We are the only one’s that need to approve of our decision.
Hi, I wrote this email to Natalie about 5 months ago and had forgotten about it. I was so happy to see her response this morning, and saddened to be reminded of the place I was in back then. Since writing that email, the situation got much worse very quickly. I endured much abuse and did prove to be a pathological liar and was also exploiting several other women in other states-women who seem to think they are going to marry him. I found out he was in a horrible sex site (much worse than tinder), and there is even a blog written by a woman on the sex site complaining that he called her horrible names when she didn’t respond to his request to “sext” fast enough. I’ve also learned he spends a lot of money on prostitutes. He is in my opinion a psychopath that has no business coaching teenage girls in soccer.
To put your minds at ease, I have been no contact for a while, and he was not able to hurt my children. I had a sense not to trust him, and so he only met them a few times and were never alone with him. I do worry about the girls he coaches. He “groomed” me and I could see him doing the same with a vulnerable girl on the team. I also do g think he would want to physically be with her, but would want her to send him pictures of herself. For some reason, he likes the pictures more than being with a person in the flesh.
I have been struggling to forgive myself. I can’t believe I put my children in harms way and ignored the bright red flags. I didn’t know that evil like this existed in the world – I do now.
I’m amazed at how accurate Natalie’s assessment is, even with the limited information I gave her. She was correct about him and correct about my childhood experience. I was horribly abused by my mother and eventually abandoned. I always prided myself on being unaffected my difficult childhood and becoming a successful adult. However, I now see that I am affected, and it shows in the relationships I have attracted. I have always dating narcissistic types, and thought I had bad luck. It took a true psychopath to break my heart to the point that it broke open and I could see what’s inside.
I am still healing, and I have a long road ahead. Now, with the knowledge I have, and working on my boundaries, beliefs and self esteem, I will never ignore another red flag again.
It is good you got out now. I personally know of women who stayed with vial men who sexually molested their children. The women just denied and ignored it. One even blamed the children for it happening. So you got out before it got bad. Kudos to you and good luck on your journey of healing. It’s hard but it’s worth it.
Thank you.
You need to report him unless you are okay with him possibly molesting these girls. He’s a pedophile and has underage pornography. Who are you protecting? Him or the “children” he might rape? It’s a crime to keep that to yourself.
Christine has reported him, see earlier comment.
Thank you.
Three little words.
Run. Like. Hell.
I thought I was imagining it when the first paragraph of your problem popped up on my Facebook feed, but there it is in black and white. He watches porn featuring under-age girls!
I have skipped straight to the end of the page to say my piece, so have not had a chance to read Natalie’s reply, but I imagine I will agree with every sensible word she says. She will hopefully convince you to get out of this situation, whatever it is, and much more.
This isn’t a flakey guy who blows hot and cold or a guy who occasionally has too much to drink and gets a bit loud and obnoxious. This is a guy who WATCHES under-age porn and has the AUDACITY to claim that all men do it, as if that should make it alright. And no, NOT all men do it! If he ends up where he probably should be he’ll soon find out how many men don’t think highly of his interests.
As if that isn’t enough he has breached your boundaries by sending you sexual texts, with no indication from you that you would welcome them, then threw a hissy fit when you called him on it. You APOLOGISED for upsetting him, which leads me to believe that he manipulated you into feeling shitty about your perceived bad behaviour. At the very least, with his blanking you and his past relationships (not a long relationship and similarly lengthy marriage, but a college girlfriend and a long-distance) should further tell you that you are not dealing with an emotional adult. However, it’s far more probable he’s a sinister gaslighter than merely immature.
Sending naked photos of himself? What a tw*t! Not remotely sexy, just juvenile, especially given his ‘good job’ and role as a kids’ soccer coach (!?!). My hope is that he sends it to someone who’s going to press share, which would be perfectly good karma considering he’s been watching porn of under-age girls which has been shared without their knowledge or consent.
Even without all these things, you’re telling us things like ‘seemed really wonderful’ and yet you have a ‘strange feeling’ that you ‘can’t shake’ and you’re ‘not comfortable’. You ‘want to believe’ he’s great , but a lot of him sound ‘kinda shady’. And I’m not sure what you told your friend who said that maybe you’d jumped the gun a bit about being exclusive, but I wouldn’t trust her to mind my coat while I went to popped to the restroom!
In response to what you should believe, I think you already know the answer. Please believe yourself and trust your gut. Relationships are great when they’re good, but this isn’t one of them and will never be. You are only 40. There’s no fire or famine and despite ‘popular’ knowledge, women over 40 do meet great guys (or gals). Partners who respect you and your boundaries and those of others, including their own.
You are not to be blamed for being taken in by his initial charm and gentlemanly behaviour. Y0u want to meet a decent partner. But you now you know about his toxic and illegal habits you must keep him away from your children, who have absolutely no say in whether they this man enters their lives or not. You now know hence you have that responsibility. Please do yourself and them a favour and throw his key into the sewer and block his number.
Good luck!
Christine, you don’t KNOW that he prefers pictures to actual contact. You are not 14 to 19, his preferred age range. The way you stated that as some kind of “fact”…felt like you are saying he is a pervert with boundaries. Still crafting “your” story about him, without possibly knowing the real facts. There’s a lot of pedophile behavior going on in school locker rooms.
How are we women raised…..?….I mean, what is the insidious thing that happens in our upbringing that makes us so willing to explain away any type of low behavior from a man, simply because he is in a physically and/or socially appealing package??? We have such a need to win the “prize catch”.
Just today the news showed a man in his 50’s who was just re-arrested for running a dating scam on women. He was just let out of jail 5 months ago, having previously been convicted of the same charges. He is a gambling addict and he frequented two dating chat lines and convinced multiple women to send him “transportation fare” for him to come see them to further the budding relationships they had formed. To the tune of two hundred thousand dollars. And he never visited any of the women.
Man, why are we so malleable…. maybe it’s vanity…..we think we are the special one that he would not possibly hurt.
Elgie,
“How are we women raised….?” I spend about 90% of my time sometimes trying to figure this out. In most cases, we are subtlety (or not so subtlety) raised to hate our natural appearance and be compliant and docile at all times. Too often we as women are raised to forfeit our personal power in favor of passivity. In my experiences via traveling in school, there is a common worldly thread that supports the ideas of stripping all women of their natural selves and power in exchange for docile somnambulism throughout their days. I suggest we peacefully return to what we are. Strong. Knowing. Wise.
Absolutely agree! I know I was personally taught that children/women should be seen and not heard, don’t have opinions(or else), smile, be sweet, be nice, do what you are told and don’t ask questions/question, men/boys are smarter/better and have more rights, women/girls are weak, stupid and helpless. I was supposed to be a subservient, mindless thing for my father’s use.
Screw that!
Oh Elgie, I’ve been wondering this for the best part of forty years. My own mother took up with a man with borderline personality disorder, who seemed lovely at first (unsurprisingly!).
Recently I asked her about any red flags at the beginning. And I was shocked. For starters he would keep dropping by her market stall and asking her out, not hearing her no. And then he’d turn up in the pub after work when she was having a drink with other traders, just staring and smiling. He enlisted the help of some other market traders, a married couple, and of course it was the woman who was asked to ‘put in a good word’. She finally relented. Red flag one – not hearing her say no. Red flag two was when, on a date, he got into a road rage incident with a van driver, jumped out of his car, pulled the guy out of the driver’s seat and punched him (easily done then as seatbelts only became compulsory in the UK in 1982 and few people wore them). At this point I was saying “Mum!! How much more information did you need??” But oh no, he “seemed so nice”. To top it all news filtered through that he’d beat the living daylights out of his first wife. My mum’s selective hearing cost her eighteen years, and yet her mantra is “They see me coming.” She will not accept that she needed to see him coming too (said without blaming her for my ex-stepfather’s abusive behaviour).
The bottom line is that little girls are all too frequently brought up to be kind and accommodating. Opinionated brats, like myself, were told we’d never find a man if we were too ‘masculine’. Personally speaking, I was always very comfortable with this as being a happy, albeit occasionally lonesome single, was a much better option than a life with one of these controllers (and for the record I met the kindest man on earth, so it does happen). My mum and plenty others like her learnt to always put other people before themselves and neglect their own needs. Admittedly there are times when this is necessary, but not as the default setting. They choose to play passive roles in their relationships, often to keep the peace, letting others to run them. And they model this behaviour for their sons, who learn that their needs are more important, and daughters, whose needs come last, and of course they’ve picked up this behaviour in childhood. They don’t learn to set healthy boundaries or listen to gut feelings. It can all be undone but it needs hard work.
Uhm…he’s coaching soccer? Let me guess…a children’s soccer league. Wow, this man is in possession of child pornography and should be in jail. They also prey on women who have children, themselves. Everything about this is disgusting and he should be reported. Not reporting him puts children in danger. End. Of. Story. By not opening your mouth, you’re allowing something possibly horrible to happen. I’m sick from this. Do not leave him alone with your children and for the love of God, don’t put other children at risk, either.
I did report him to three agencies. They will not investigate without proof, even though I gave a text message showing that he admits to it. They need the video.
And yes, he coaches teenage girls soccer.
I am not in contact with him any more and I only brought him around my children a few times and never left them alone.
Well done Christine for getting away, and for reporting this pond swill. I’m shocked that the authorities are not investigating. I take it you’re in the US so I don’t know the procedure. But you can at least know that you’ve done your best to alert the powers-that-be to this man’s behaviour.
I was thinking about Natalie’s questions tonight and I had an epiphany. She asks “who in my past does this remind me of”, and of course I thought of my mother right away. She abused me horribly and I would get in trouble for speaking out about it, she was all about her image. But tonight I thought again, “who does this remind me of”. It reminds me of the way I treat MYSELF. No one treats me worse than I treat myself, I am constantly putting myself down (using my inner voice of course), as a “motivator”. I’m a perfectionist and I beat myself up non-stop.
I must have thought that’s what I deserved, since I think so lowly of myself. That’s why it felt like home. His abusive treatment matched my own treatment of myself.
I hope this makes sense. And I hope my honesty helps someone out there feeling the same way or going through the same things. I know I have felt very very alone in my suffering.
Christine,
I made my first comment before reading yours that you had moved on from this person.
First off, you are incredibly courageous. You have done so much work to get away from this horror and did what you could to report him.
As a survivor, you are my hero right now. It is people like you that give me so much hope. Those that can face the truth of someone even when it means great pain.
Christine, you are a strong woman.
None of his behavior was your fault.
Hi Christine,
I am so sorry that you have gone through this feeling very very lonely and no doubt afraid. You’ve done the absolute best thing in leaving and staying left. A very dangerous situation you had been in as Nat mentioned. When you don’t wish that upon your own children then you certainly are not going to wish it for yourself, make that a mantra from here on in.
Interesting you mentioned his behaviour reflecting how it was for you inside (the ‘feeling at home’ kind of thing) so perhaps to get a much more healthier and loving inner perspective, continue the counselling on top of befriending loving and kind people who do genuinely live that way and will show you how to be that way for yourself.
Your mum it seemed had her own demons to deal with and sadly you became her outlet for abuse. It certainly does not excuse her behaviour with most importantly your focus now on self-care and raising your most beloved treasures.
Do something today that is going to go against the perfectionist self as you will find the sky is not going to fall on your head. For every time you berate yourself, add on another sentence where you tell berated self that you love her.
Take care.
Sounds very similar to my story Christine. I stayed with a horrible porn freak for 5 years, and constantly second guessed myself, doubted my sanity, questioned my belief systems, turned myself upside down and inside out. The mother issues are also the same. Mine was an emotionally cold, gaslighter, narcissistic and vile person. She was also a bully and she has dragged my poor Father through hell.
So – yes, well done for getting away from this psycho. Sometimes I cant believe I will ever be fully happy after such a childhood and picking such men all my life. I am currently going through a break up just to top it all off.
Fingers crossed it will get better !!!! We have to keep the faith. Stay strong. Xx.
Christine,
When I was younger, I lived with a child molester who sexually tortured me from the ages two to six (both of my parents were too ill to care for me). After suicide attempt #1 at the age of 12, I finally came forward to a district attorney about an incident in the long line of abuse from this man. (In short, it just about damn near killed me.) I have fought tirelessly for decades to try and undue what that man did to me.
The man who repeatedly molested me (and the children around me I loved; I sob and shake as I write this), had a “good” job, was married and in his twenties, was handsome, was described as “nice” and “helpful”, and acted very gentlemanly. Behind closed doors (and sometimes out in the open when he thought no one was looking), he shattered my world. This man, too, loved porn. It would be strewn throughout the house.
Every time I hear a woman define a man’s character based on if he has a job, I go through horrid nausea. We have to dig deeper than that. We have to demand more than that, if not for ourselves, for our children.
This man is not showing you potential; he is grooming you how a predator stalks and grooms its prey. He’s using you as a ploy in his own sick kingdom.
This man should never be around children. It is illegal (and for good reason) to participate in the sexual exploitation of teens. He is a sick sick man and you cannot fix him.
Natalie,
Thank you for taking a risk to address a topic that needs more attention in a healthy, truthful way.
I am so utterly sick and disgusted at the sexual exploitation of children, teens, and women. Enough is enough. I am glad you are providing a platform for the truth.
Thank you.
Some harrowing stories here. Glad to read that Christine, the original poster, has put this incident in the past. I hope that next time she meets someone she looks beyond the charming behaviour and ‘potential’ and listens to her gut instinct more.
Of course, there are women who will come across this page and have similar situations they want answers to. Remember that dangerous types are charming for a reason. They know you would never be interested if you saw them as they truly are first off the bat. They have many ways of reeling you in and put them to good use every time. Hanging around because you see their potential is another worry. He’s not a down-at-heel apartment you can do up and sell or a piece of art you’ve been working on: he’s a weirdo who shouldn’t be roaming the Internet, far less the town. As Natalie says, he’s not a frog who’s going to magically turn into a handsome prince.
As another poster says here, well done Natalie for tackling this issue here and for the sage advice.
Christine, good for you for getting away from this man. My heart breaks for you and all of us who question our own judgement about these shady men due to our families of origin.
This story has also had me thinking about the technique this man used when you first expressed a boundary. His reaction of turning around and getting angry at YOU and freezing you out when you told him the sexting was inappropriate. I think his angry response made you question your assessment of the situation. I’ve had shady guys pull this on me as well. The old “I’ll act like I’M pissed off and she’ll think she’s the one in the wrong” mindf*ckery.
It makes me so angry that so many of us question our judgement and get into these terrible situations as a result of having less-than parents, to put it mildly. And at least in my case, the harmful parent has zero awareness, acknowledgement, or regret, meanwhile I’ve had a lifetime of putting up with so much garbage from similarly shitty people.
“I’ll act like I’M pissed off and she’ll think she’s the one in the wrong” mindf*ckery.” I’ve found that one is very common. Now when I’m able to spot it – most of the time now- I’ve started responding by looking/acting pissed myself. Works like a charm. They are mind f*cking bullies.
Another one (my adult daughter seems to favor) is to say – but so and so agrees with me (that I’m the bad guy/wrong). Or after she has bullied me goes around telling all her friends a sob story and comes back to me telling me how awful they all think I am. I’ve learned to not respond. She wants a reaction from me. It’s really painful and disappointing.
Yep, I’ve gotten that too.
I remember a guy being a jerk and when I called him on it, acting shocked and saying how if his friends heard that they wouldn’t believe that HE would ever treat someone badly. Meanwhile, being involved with him was the worst experience of my life. I found out that he drove another woman to attempt suicide.
If someone actually has integrity they won’t offer up as ‘proof’ that they have friends who would disagree with your assessment of their behaviour.
Yes, It’s invalidating, undermining, crazy making and painful. I was isolated and vulnerable and she knew it. It came to the point that I did actually think about offing myself to just get away from the abuse. It shocked me and it was my wake up call. I gave myself a long time away from her. My therapist has helped me to understand the mindset and how I can best protect myself. I now know that I have to keep her at an arms length, be very strong and keep my guard up. Still working through the grief.
My stomach was in knots reading this. Natalie was spot on. As a mother, I’m beyond relieved that Christine saw sense
So much to say, *sigh* — Reacting and following up to these comments from above all at once instead of individually where they were posted:
How are we women raised…..?….I mean, what is the insidious thing that happens in our upbringing that makes us so willing to explain away any type of low behavior from a man, simply because he is in a physically and/or socially appealing package???
Man, why are we so malleable…. maybe it’s vanity…..we think we are the special one that he would not possibly hurt.
They don’t learn to set healthy boundaries or listen to gut feelings. It can all be undone but it needs hard work.
I know I have felt very very alone in my suffering.
Every time I hear a woman define a man’s character based on if he has a job, I go through horrid nausea. We have to dig deeper than that. We have to demand more than that
Natalie,
Thank you for taking a risk to address a topic that needs more attention in a healthy, truthful way.
. . .I think those of us with these experiences have to be EXTREMELY careful and EXTREMELY slow with new men, new people, new situations period — almost to the point of seeming ridiculous.
But– it’s not nitpicky or ridiculous to be careful and slow b/c our sense of what “seems” right and “seems” wrong has been tampered with. There isn’t a lot out there to me that specifically addresses how to date(or how NOT to date) when you’ve been abandoned, emotionally abused etc. etc. Plus, many of us don’t know that the prior experience in childhood affects us so deeply in other relationships.
Conventional “dating” and “dating advice” doesn’t work for . . .what shall I say, survivors? Playing “The Rules” for example, puts us at risk. I found Baggage Reclaim in the first place, in part, b/c I needed something that addressed something other than “how to find the prince” or “being more feminine” or whatever.
Problems have to do with the power dynamic established in childhood. Someone else had the power do decide and used it indiscriminately. We then, unconsciously, give away our power, just as we did as children — when someone (a man) behaves outrageously — raging, silent treatment, etc. We revert to childhood behaviors and comply. . .the wrong-acting man gets to be the wrong-acting parent. . .and we respond as children, rather than grown women. We apologize, rather than run.
Integrating some of the things Nat suggests as well as therapists, good advice from good friends, forums here — takes a LONG time. I looked at Nat’s 10-point “Are they Emotionally Available Guide” published recently, I think. Okay — check it out and think it out — even if it took about a week to look at each point with a new man, that to me seems like not enough time — it’s about 2-3 months, and that’s within the typical “sleep with him” range. A month for each point seems like not enough time — that would be the better part of a year! And by that time we’re wanting him to be a “boyfriend” or even a “husband”!
By conventional dating standards, most of which does NOT work for us, most people are already having sex and “seeming like” a “relationship” well before emotional availability tests have been screened through — let alone determining if the person is, you know, *sane*.
I’ve had to get to some sort of determination quickly b/c with this Internet, bad things happen — quickly and my gut, athough it’s getting better, doesn’t always kick in and/or I’m STILL always backchecking my gut — some people here have called it along the lines of looking for “evidence”.
I think everyone said that the situation with Christine would get out of control — and she said that it did — that’s kind of like using our guts, but how often and how well does that play out in real time, especially during a sexual “relationship”?
I’ve condensed what I feel I need to know upfront to a few key questions:
1) Would a reasonable. . .
2) Does a good. . .
3) Does it seem reasonable to. . .
It kind of works like this: 1) Would a reasonable person (. . .take a week to respond to an email, sext after only a few dates, not ask questions about myself in a conversation, etc.) 2) Does a good man (. . .backpedal when I come close, tell me I’m crazy, rage,pout,use the silent treatment, look at underage porn, etc.) 3) Does it seem reasonable to (. . .chase a man who is backpedaling, raging or silent treating, believe him, keep emailing him, give him the benefit of a doubt etc.)
When I stick to it plus look at some of the things Nat says to as far as looking at childhood issues or whatever else (say, some of her guides), it kind of seems to put me in “grown woman” mode rather than “child” mode b/c I have forced myself to be more conscious of what is happening in a situation or with a person.
But it can take a LONG time — what seems like a long time in this day and age where things are “supposed to” materialize quickly — “dates” after swiping or clicking, sex after 3 “dates”, etc. I mean, I’m not old fashioned but back in the day people didn’t even go out on “unchaperoned” single dates. I’m not saying do anything THAT extreme — but I think each person who has had these poor childhood experiences needs SOME kind of vetting process to screen — well, MOST men, at least MANY men out.
We can’t help or heal men from bad behaviour or even call them out on it — we must run, we must rescue ourselves — b/c no one rescued us when we were children. We’re too busy helping ourselves, we’re in no position to help them. They have to do their own work — any indication that they haven’t and/or won’t equals — bye!
I do the above, Nat’s advice etc. while there isn’t any sex, often not even a date yet. Sometimes it sends the man who doesn’t want to wait or really get to know me scurrying off in the other direction.
It’s not *quite* “please check these boxes to prove to me you’re not a sociopath or psychopath or borderline or an abuser” — but it can feel like it at times! 🙂
That’s okay — but I say do whatever it is you need to do upfront to feel safe — not walled off, not being emotionally unavailable yourself but . . .safe. Even if that means he leaves, even if that means being alone.
I popped in to read BR after being away for a little while. This post chilled me, as it did so many others. I was reminded of a man I know who I’ve always felt ‘unsettled’ about and had an off feeling in my gut. He too seemed to have a focus on porn (citing boredom and loneliness) , not so much with underage girls but with the dirtiest girls he could find on craigslist ( said it was just fantasy and that he would never act on it) and on sex hook up sites ( said he would just try to get them to meet him but never went through with it), and prostitutes who he sent naked picture of himself to ( once again said it was just the fantasy of talking to them but not meeting up). He went on and on about what a nice and loyal guy he is in a relationship and that he only did those things because he was lonely when I was upset with him and that he never went through with any of it. Then he would follow up with an offended, what kind of guy do you think I am? To this day, I have no idea who this man really was or what really went on. This is very weird and hard to describe but he ‘looked’ different every time I saw him. I mean he physically looked different in the face like there were many sides of him. It was very eery. I, like Christine, rationalized it, wondered how I could be skewing it, making it worse than it was, was too judgmental and critical ( he suggested this that I made himont to be a bad guy and shamed him), yet the feeling in my gut never let up. He could be very nice but the creep in him would ‘creep’ out sometimes. I am very normal ( ha ha ha ). I think he saw me not as a mark, but as a way to make himself feel less like a freak. I have come to believe he was a sex addict. Most likely a sociopath. I also believe he had a tendency to stalk women. He was for sure, a liar. I met him online by the way, and found many things he claimed in his profile to be lies. Be careful out there. I too have been drawn into these crappy situations with men too many times and know that it’s part me and part my own fault, not for meeting them but for continuing to engage with them when the info was right in front of me and how I rationalized the things that registered in my gut as ‘not okay’. Still trying figure it out but its like a tangled mess of string. Hard to unravel the psyche. Men with a strong interest in porn ring alarm bells for me anyway. Child porn is beyond horrible. Any man who has child porn is clearly very messed up and if he not hurting children yet, he will.
My brother was molested by a male neighbor when he was 8-14 years old. He has never really recovered from it and has struggled mentally and emotionally. We found out many years later about it and about how this man had abused many boys and had gone to jail previously for it. This was in the day before internet, so there was no looking it up or having a registered sex offender list. His family on the other hand, DID know all about his pedohilia and never said a word to my parents about it. They just turned the other way and let it happen to at least 6 other boys in the neighborhood as well as my brother. One of them committed suicide when he was 19. Another one went on to abuse little boys too.
I am appalled that Christine was told she is the one who is supposed to provide proof to the agencies she reported him to. Can they not at least look into it on some level while still respecting his rights as an “alleged” owner of child porn? They need him to get caught with his pants down, literally before even looking into it? That just seems wrong. I’m mixed on not letting the soccer team parents know about him. I know it could be a legal mess if she did that and also may jeopardize her safety if he found out she did, but basing on what happened to my brother…..if someone had just said something, anything to alert my parents, my brother would of been a completely different person today and not have been severely traumatized. A another young man would not of committed suicide and another young man would not have turned his pain into a cycle of hurting more young children. Maybe Christine could go the the school or the city recreation board that offers the soccer program, even anonymously. Maybe they would have more leverage to look into it. Seems like something could be done. I’m glad she is no longer near this man. He is a predator.
Oh Selkie, you describe this man just like I would describe the man I was involved with. The “creep” sometimes creeps out, a sex addict, into stranger than strange porn, and I know what you mean when you say he looked different every time you saw him.
I didn’t mention that on our third date, he told me that the girls on his team are very sexual these days, and told me specific disgusting stories about them. It bothered me at the time, put I couldn’t put my finger on why. I thought he was lying at the time -because the stories were so outlandish. But now I think that he was telling me about his own fantasies he has about the girls, maybe even confusing reality and fantasy?
He also asked me on several occasions to tell him stories about my own sexuality at age 14, and asked me to send him a picture of myself at 14 so he could have a visual (I did not).
I have thought about posting something on the soccer teams annonymiys forum (the soccer program isn’t related to a school), but I remember him laughing about how the parents think it’s annonymous but really they have the IP addresses. I’m afraid if him and his retaliation. So I haven’t done that. Unfortunately, there isn’t enough evidence for the police to justify a search, even though I’ve give them my text messages.
The police said “it’s not illegal to be creepy, and it’s not illegal to be a pedophile.” Not all pedophiles will harm a child, and I understand that. I think wants pictures of the girls doing degrading things, because that’s what he wanted from me and likes. I think he liked the power and control he had over me every time I did what he asked. I’m afraid he’s doing that to these young girls. He would pick the perfect victim, and she would be afraid to speak out because she wouldn’t want anyone to know she sent the pictures, she feels responsible (he had a way of getting me to do things and have it be my idea..like, “I could tell you like it when we talked about…..” I got out – these young girls might not be able to. And it was/is traumatizing for me to be dehumanized and I’m ashamed, I would imagine it’s much worse for a girl that age.
It’s just an idea that I want to offer.
Could you possibly find out who is in that soccer team and try to talk to the parents privately about it?
Or if you’re worried he finds your IP adress, let a friend or acquaintance from a different city write a warning about him on that soccer team site. All you really need to do that is a different pc somewhere else.
Also, do I remember it right that he sent you one of those gross videos? Wherever he sent it to, your pc or mobile phone – a pofessional is able to restore that data. Nothing you erase is really erased… until you actually destroy the device.
That way, he could at least be charged for having that kind of pornography.
(Please excuse my bad English, it’s not my mother tongue)
Hi, I deleted the text thread including the video he sent me when I went “no contact”.i only have screenshots of the conversation saved. I called Apple and they were unable to restore it.
Christine,
If you do want to post something, maybe you could go to a public library, not in your neighbourhood, and post on the website from there? That would eliminate the IP concern. Or send an anonymous letter (typewritten) to the school?
Wow. The fact he said that about the IP address being trackable says he is a sneaky guy making sure you don’t. talk. I believe that was a warning for you, from him, in case you got any ideas of talking about his perverse infatuation with young girls. It is most likely how he keeps others who know his sickness from saying anything, the subtle threat, which is what they do to manipulate victims. The more you tell us about him, the more clear it is to me that he is a dangerous man. It’s a tough situation for you. While leaving him absolutely in your past and moving on is best for you and most definitely for your children, knowing the things you know about him and how he could be victimizing young girls must be a heavy burden for you to carry. You did the right thing by reporting him. I wish more could be done to alert parents of the children he is around. But your safety is also at risk. I honestly don’t know what I would do in your shoes. Maybe find a child protection agency and send them an anonymous letter with his name and the the info of his soccer team. Someone may listen.
I just saw in a comment above that you reported him to CPS already and they did nothing. That is unfortunate.
I admire you for reporting him and not looking the other way. Many don’t out of fear or self doubt.
Take care Christine.
Ahhh…you have a good point. Maybe he only told me about being able to get the IP addresses because he anticipated me posting information I knew about him on there. It’s hard for me to comprehend that he would be planning or anticipating that though…
I had a similar but not as horrific ex.
Was/am worried his very predatory sexuality would escalate to worse than what he did with me. He is a Narc. Used his job as cover for things that didn’t add up. Not being in the same field of work or a coworker I couldn’t much question most of it & he kept his explanations mostly plausible. Creep alarm was ringing & I hit silent alarm while waiting for “evidence” of what was off. Never do that again.
I was very leary of reporting him especially after he made threats. That he was being manipulative & trying to intimidate me out of holding him accountable to me or others versus actually threatening I could never be sure . I chose to report him & take whatever consequences might come from it.
Having said that I think most people need to always self protect especially if nobody protected you as a child. We want to be the heroes we wish others were but some times you just have to let the chips fall where they may and do what you can.
The cp people are very into computers ( how do you think they avoid being caught) so I have no doubt if you post he will find out who or know by what you say. I see you reported him anyway,thank you for that much.
Oh my gosh, leave this person immediately! No explanation necessary. What is necessary is No Contact. He sounds dangerous.
Well done Christine. You have done something huge that will change you for the better in so many ways. It’s an incredibly hard thing to do. I can empathise, having been in the same situation as you. The only difference is that I had a child with my creep – bad move in many ways, but of course i can’t regret having her. It’s very hard to explain why we get involved with and stay with men who, for other people, are obvious danger zones. It’s very complex, and, even when we see the truth staring us in the eyes, to us leaving isn’t necessarily the obvious option. In the end my ex left me, thank goodness. Then he went to my daughter’s school and accused me of sexually abusing her – the irony! That was when the scales fell from my eyes and I realised what kind of man he was, but even then I tried for some time to excuse him responsibility – he must be having a breakdown, poor man. It’s taken me years to realise that he is just a cold blooded sociopath. Now the hard thing is to make the same judgement about my father.
Oh, and one more thing . . . yes, mine works with children too, and nothing I, or anyone else who has been affected by him, say has any sway in terms of child protection. No proof, no protection. And he’s far too clever to leave any proof. Knowing about abuse and being unable to stop it is hard to live with.
Regarding the women who don’t leave these men, it is very complex I am sure. I had a male coworker, Al, who passed away about 9 years ago. I used to see Al and his wife at various local theater productions, and it was always a pleasant encounter – I’d usually be alone, and we’d chat and find camaraderie in the fact that we both liked seeing these plays. When he passed, his wife came to the job, desperate to get at Al’s computer…which is unusual. Al’s manager decided to clean the computer off of any proprietary stuff, and in doing so, the manager discovered folders containing many pictures of young boys in sexual positions. So much for privacy, because it was the manager who told me about it. We figured the wife was aware that those things existed.
Al was a soft-spoken rotund man, average looking, but married, and they had a daughter. We single women on the outside looking in can get very down on ourselves for not being part of a couple. “ Here I am again, going to a play alone again, and everybody is coupled off. What wrong with me???” But you never know what is really going on inside a marriage. Appearances. Deceiving.
I lived with a child molester as a small child, and his wife in the home knew it was happening (I personally think they both deserved jail time). She walked in on him molesting me when I was six and told me what he was doing was okay.
Turns out he was molestig my friends, too. Finally, the parents figured it out and prosecuted (I still don’t know if he spent any jail time). Finally his wife at the time divorced him and went on to marry seven different times, all predators, and all ending in divorce. I really do not completely know what goes on in the minds of these women. It’s a lot of justifying, denial, and complete delusion.
I do know that the woman who was married to so many predatory men was obsessed with two things: a man being handsome in her perception and that he have a “good” job (whatever that means). I guess she got what she asked for, except that she forgot to consider personal integrity and honesty in a partner. Unfortunately, I see this all the time. (I am from what can be a very backwards thinking part of the world where women are seen as useless unless we are married and “breeding”.)
All — it’s been very eye-opening and somewhat cathartic to participate in a forum on this topic.
Every story, including my own, prompted me to just google “dating after abuse.” I was pleased to find that there are A LOT more resources — a mix of personal and professional — out there than when I first found BR several years ago.
So far, at least from google, I did not find a book that explored the topic — most of the “dating literature” out there is more about “romance” and “princes” and “femininity,” as I mentioned.
The one book I will mention is called “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin de Becker(sp). It has been around for a while, but I believe there is also a more recent update/sequel. His work focuses mainly on the physical aspects of protecting yourself, not the emotional, but acknowledges that most women will be attacked by someone they know or “know.”
However — I always had a sneaking suspicion that a predator is a predator — there’s only degrees on a rather horrifying scale. Only now have I seen fully that the same tactics a predator uses emotionally and physically (e.g. luring, grooming, planning/premeditating, victim selection) are the same/similar. Basically, in brief and in short — if something *FEELS* wrong it *IS* wrong — don’t comply, don’t override instincts, don’t be “nice,” don’t go along, don’t “check” for “proof”. Just b/c he hasn’t hit you yet doesn’t mean he won’t — and doesn’t mean he isn’t hitting you on the inside.
I’m regret not sharing links b/c I think each person has to judge what speaks to the situation that is most applicable.
Who knows — maybe Nat* started a “trending topic” when she started this site — I really didn’t find what I needed at the time I found this site.
I conclude by saying a paraphrase from somebody that ain’t me(is it you Dr. Phil?) — when you know better, you do better
Big. Squeezy. Hugs.
But that’s the whole problem. Some of us don’t have the “feels wrong/feels right” mechanism working properly. We literally can’t tell one from the other. Abuse is so closely linked with love and care that it’s indistinguishable. Our instincts do not alert us the way they do most people. We either luck out and meet a nice man (unusual), or learn through a tortuous process of trial and error.
I like to think that I’ve finally learnt now, but I also notice that I’ve been single for 5 years! Avoidance tactics!
Sarah, yes, avoidance tactics. Perhaps as many have said above, we have learnt enough about ourselves and perhaps even about ‘love’, the bad kind of love, that we are now too weary and wary to even try. I don’t trust others. I don’t trust myself, my judgment. I don’t know how or I think I don’t know how to be spontaneous and normal in a relationship anymore. That’s why ACs and Narcs can walk away and quickly find someone else – they depend on others being chumps and their experience with us has usually proved that people will put up with their bs and abusive love. While our trust that people are normal and nice is broken.
Yes, our basic survival skills were miswired. We were taught to trust the untrustworthy and not to trust ourselves. Now, our work, if we choose it to rewire our brains and learn to trust ourselves and others (the trustworthy ones). Survival depends on knowing the difference between a friend and an enemy. Over time we learn to spot the enemies posing as friends…the people who are trying to destroy us. We learn to trust and protect ourselves by not sharing our precious hearts and secrets with them. We learn to get away from them instead of believing whatever fantasy we have bought into to explain away their behavior. Reality can be painful in the short-term, but far less painful in the long-term. There is hope. We can do it (if we choose) and we’re worth it!
Another hard thing about developing a highly sensitive creep detector: other people often don’t see what you see. They’re taken in by the “charm” and think you’re “just paranoid.” Often the person I find insufferably creepy, even to a scary degree, is one of the most popular people, at the center of the crowd. The others catch on to them much later, if at all. And then there are phases when every man who opens his mouth to try to talk to you sets off the detectors. Not easy, but I find it’s a valuable tool.
Yes, that too! I found even my therapist has trouble with it. I recently told her about a couple of flags and she talked me out of my feelings…I felt paranoid at that point. Turns out my gut instincts were right on the money.
She didn’t know what gaslighting was and then I discovered she’s unaware of negging…It’s time for a new therapist as I’m teaching her what to spot.
Ditto !!! My therapist talked me down too. Turns out he still has no GF , and is a porn addict. Wish i never met him.
She should be paying you!
Hey JC. I also thought of that Gavin de Becker book, The Gift of Fear and would thoroughly recommend it. I have a feeling it’s geared mainly more a US market, but it still has a lot of relevance, especially regarding dating and relationships, etc.
If there’s anything I would want to throw on a bonfire it’s that blessed book The Rules. While some of it may be common sense, the whole ‘never call him back’ nonsense is a bit of a stalkers’ charter and, quite frankly, puts decent men off as they are rightly wary of pursuing too strongly. A waste of good trees!
JC,
I have two friends who I both love dearly. One is outspoken and extremely assertive and has had a long time boyfriend. Some of his political and religious ideas are different than mine or my friend’s, but the first time I met him, I felt completely at ease and the more I know him, the more I am grateful I have the two of them as friends.
The second of my friends is quiet, very sweet, and a bit passive. She has a history of dating cruel, abusive men. Her new guy ticks every socially acceptable box: clean cut, practices the popular religion, college educated, well paying job. But I feel so much unease and almost nauseated around him. Though I’ve only met him once, I won’t be around him again. I can’t put my finger on it, but something is terribly wrong. My friend is smitten with him, but I insist, he is bad news.
Recovering from abuse is very much owning our perceptions and learning the greatest of life lessons: Things are not always as presented.
I think there is something to learn about having real love and compassion for ourselves, and then using that as a compass for engaging with other people.
This sounds familiar. So much so that my therapist asked me to appear on TV, disguised, to describe the impact of porn on relationships.
My self esteem was on the floor.
Run as fast as you can anyone who meets a person like this. They wont change, and like Nat said – its the tip of the iceberg. Vile and degraded muck in my opinion. Really grotesque.