In part one, I gave you a whole host of reasons why it’s foolhardy to pursue friendship with a Mr Unavailable and/or assclown and also explained why you may want to pursue friendship with them.
The one thing that I want you to keep saying to yourself, out loud if you can is:
Why the hell do I want to be friends with this man?
The more often you say this and think this, is the more you are forced to get real, is the more you have to be accountable for why you’re still miserable and you haven’t moved on.
As I said in part one, remaining friends with an assclown or Mr Unavailable, when you are still emotionally attached, is about establishing a new ‘fallback position’.
You will no longer be the woman who he’s in a relationship with that he’s defaulting to, to get an ego stroke, sex, and a reliable shoulder to lean on; you’ll be the woman who has sold herself down the river of so-called friendship, for him to receive the fringe benefit of you still being emotionally invested in him…without him actually having to be in a relationship.
Do not ever demote yourself.
All that a Mr Unavailable or assclown does when you offer or accept the dodgy hand of friendship, is parlay your low self-esteem, your inability to be real about the relationship, and your lack of boundaries, into a booty call, regular ego stroke, or boomerang relationship.
The fact of the matter is that if you no longer wanted to be emotionally invested in this guy and had serious, definitive plans to move on, you would not want his friendship.
As I explained in part one, we find it very easy to come up with excuses to remain friends that essentially are codewords and phrases for not wanting to let go and not loving ourselves enough.
The problem with when we want to be friends with a Mr Unavailable or assclown is that we’re not 1) truly considering our own feelings and being real about him and the relationship, and 2) we’re not thinking about the future.
This goes back to something I regularly state:
You need to look at the bigger picture. You need to see the wood instead of the trees.
In essence, women who want to pursue ‘friendship’ with men who are unworthy of their time and energy are short-term thinkers.
If you thought past your current, reactive feelings to the situation and considered 1) the real him with his consistent behaviour and character, 2) how you have consistently felt in the relationship, and 3) what you profess to want in the future, there is no way on earth you would give this man the time of day, nevermind a pot to pee in!
But you throw all of your energy into this (non) friendship because in reality, you, at the time, believe you want him to be a part of your future and actually, you can’t imagine his future without you in it, because you’ve confused how you think, feel, and act, with how he thinks, feels, and acts.
Here’s the thing: Most women I come across say they want to find love and be in a serious relationship.
If you’re truly planning to do this, where exactly does the ex fit in? How do you explain him in your life when you start a new relationship?
Oh he’s a guy I used to date…What’s that you said? Why did we break up? Well.. I…er…he…er…it’s kind of complicated…Is he the guy that keeps calling and texting? Well..I..er..
Being friends with these guys prevents you from moving on and if you spend more energy pursuing friendship with them, than you do on focusing on yourself and trying to move yourself forward, it’s certainly indicative of you inadvertently trying to prevent yourself from being real, healing, and having to take uncomfortable but necessary steps to change.
Staying friends with these guys can end up keeping you in a pattern and you end up being a Yo-Yo Girl with a trail of unfinished business in her wake. No finality, and too many loose ends makes for someone who ends up being trapped in a half life and you will not get to address why you were even in this relationship in the first place.
More importantly, women who stay friends with their ex Mr Unavailables and assclowns find it difficult to start a new relationship. They’re too busy playing with the loose ends of their old one…
See, here is the thing. Mr Unavailables and assclowns don’t really ‘get’ the whole boundaries thing because everything is on their terms. When you tell them to take a run and jump, they can often pursue you even harder and confuse the hell out of you, only for them to revert to their usual crappy behaviour. Or, they screw you up so much that when you tell them to beat it and they do, you panic and call them up…only for them to behave exactly as they always do.
The offer of friendship when two people break up is often a cordial thing – in most circumstances, I wouldn’t go taking them at their word unless several months have gone by and you have both moved on. People like to be polite, and guys hate looking like bastards, even when they are.
If you don’t make the token gesture of being friends, there could be a rather uncomfortable silence in the air and we all know that human nature makes us say something to fill in the gap.
But another type of man, an assclown or Mr Unavailable, offers the hand of friendship because they like to keep the door open, just in case they should ever decide that they need you for something – a shag, ego stroke, some money, your parking space, or as a beard when they attend their next family function…
They also can’t commit to being with you…and they can’t commit to not being with you, and they also like to feel that there is at least one woman out there that wants them…even if they don’t return the feeling.
They then play silly games like sending dumb emails and text messages, calling up on the pretext of seeing how you are, and turning up unexpectedly when they’ve actually turned up for sex. They say insincere bullsh*t like they really care about you and wish things could be different and blah blah blah
They don’t wish things could be different at all and the one thing their ego can’t cope with is you no longer being interested, but they know enough about you to know that you have low enough self-esteem to keep them in your life.
So they stay in your life knowing that the likelihood is that you will continue to be emotionally invested, even though they’re not.
Mr Unavailables and assclowns like to be in control of the situation.
They want to control the temperature by blowing hot and cold, they manage down your expectations so that they can stop you from wanting, needing, and expecting too much, and if you are not friends with them, they feel out of control of the dynamics that they have established with you.
Just like when they panic and start blowing super hot when they realise they’re in danger of losing you, pushing the friendship angle is about keeping control of things and establishing a new, dysfunctional dynamic.
If you play into their hands, you will fall into a new cycle, only now you’re getting the headache under the guise of ‘friendship’.
Just like when I have said that you need to have boundaries in all of your relationships; that’s lovers, friends, family, colleagues etc, you should choose men of good character and friends of good character.
This puts you in a difficult situation, because personally, I don’t think that you wanting to stay friends with someone who is patently selfish and who at no point has put your needs either equal to or above his own is a sign of someone who would make a good friend.
If we want to experience real personal happiness, find an inner peace and calm, and be genuinely open to real, positive relationships, we need to build our self-esteem by learning to like and love ourselves, and treating ourselves right by surrounding ourselves with people who add positively to our lives, and avoiding situations, people, and environments that detract from that.
All of this leads to choosing better partners, and inadvertently, building better relationships with family and friends.
Exes, especially assclowns and Mr Unavailables, are not memorabilia for you to collect up and carry around with you in the form of your relationship past entourage. They leave you with more than enough emotional baggage as it is and ultimately you have to decide how much drama, ambiguity, and game playing you want to be involved in.
You don’t have to declare war or be nasty, but you don’t need to be friends, and in actual fact, you can keep these men at a polite distance if you have to come into contact with them. But that’s for the final part three where I explain how to handle Mr Unavailables and assclowns and their ‘friendship’ and ensure that if you have to be in contact with them, it’s on your terms, not theirs.
Your thoughts?
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So, I’m the first…
Wonderful post and from recent experience with the so-called “friendship card” with an ex-AC, so true.
You can be friends with anyone you want. But the biggest thing I’ve learned in 30 years of existence is that in real friendships you don’t spend your time frustrated and overanalyzing everything. And that’s not just with guys who you’ve dated, but all friendships. Real friendships don’t take that much effort – they aren’t exhausting.
I had an EUM, and I tried to be friends with him. But they just continue to take advantage. And it was super hard to break that habit, but I did it, and sometimes I think about him. I think about him for about 30 seconds and then I get tired of it and wonder what I’m going to have for supper, if I should buy those cute green wedges, or if I should go to Blockbuster and rent a movie. It takes a lot of work to get over it, but it’s definitely worth it.
Great Posts! Its scary how accurate it is.
I was never actually in a relationship but I was sleeping with someone for about 4 months and i thought it was going somewhere. Then out of knowwhere he says its over cause I am getting to serious. I told him it would be to hard to be friends cause i want more and he didnt understand that, he thought it was fine to stay friends without the benefits. Funny thing though – he hasnt once tried to contact me. Its always me putting in the effort. I am not sure how to stop myself from texting him. Help!!!
Very well said. It does keep you from moving on. I am a perfect example. Since my NC he has gotten angry because I don’t get pulled back in to meet his needs. It feels good to turn and walk the other way. I am still working on letting go but I wouldn’t be healing and moving on if it weren’t for NC.There is much better on the horizon, trust me.
The Assclown in my life was a “friend” (not romantic). But he still behaved exactly as predicted on this site. When he met a girlfriend, I ceased to exist. He literally ignored me for months, until it ended with her. Then he came back– not as strongly as before, but back all the same. I was dumb enough to be happy to have him back and treated him lovingly, forgiving his previous “dumping.” He quickly met another woman and said some cruel things to me (to get rid of me I guess).
I kept hoping something would happen (he’d change) and our friendship would resume. I kept thinking he’d apologize for his behavior and I could forgive him and we’d go back to the way we used to be. But now, I see I was just a sort of fallback girl. He enjoyed the attention he got from me, yet was gone when he found a romantic interest. After reading this installment, I realize two things:
1. He won’t change and 2. He’s no friend. I asked myself what being a friend means to me…
Is he supportive? no
Is he kind, concerned, interested in my life? no
Does he/did he treat me with respect? no
Can I rely on him to be there? no
Can I share/Do we share our thoughts and feelings? no
Do we laugh and have fun together? no
Can I call him when I’m down? no
Do I trust him? no
Do I respect him? no
Does he add anything to my life (besides hurt)? no
Would I be proud to call him a friend? no
Do I feel comfortable and relaxed around him? no
I don’t want to be friends with *who he is*, I want to be friend with *who I thought he was*– but that person doesn’t exist. I’m having a hard time coming to terms with him ending our “friendship”– of course I want to know why he did. But the reason is obvious– he’s just an Assclown.
i was nodding my head all through cuz this just described my ex and his lets be friends theory. I am cutting him off from today. Thank you
Great post NML! I can’t wait for part three…should be a blast!
To Sad June, the only way to stop texting him is to stop texting him. When you feel the urge to text him stop and ask yourself why you are texting/ calling him? What do you expect him to say to you? Play out the conversation in your head. B/c you and I both know that it will be a very one sided conversation with you doing all the talking and even perhaps begging and he continuing to be the nasty, cold, selfish, aloof bastard that he is. You are betting on hope, I know it dosen’t look like that, but that is what you are doing. You are over analysing, like NML warns, and hoping that this time he’ll be different, this time he’ll see your worth, this time he’ll stop hurting you. But he won’t. Don’t open yourself to any more rejection. It’s really a good thing that he has not tried to contact you. Essentially what he is saying is “f**k you, if I can’t have you on my terms then your’e not worth having.” Do you believe that about your self? Are you not worth having? If you call him and text him you are basically telling him that “I have no respect for myself and am willing to have you use, disrespect and mistreat me.” Don’t let him do that to you. Don’t do it to yourself. When you get the urge to contact him, do something else, go for a walk, exercise, talk to a good friend, scream, think about the shitty way he treated you and how it made you feel. Don’t call him. Trust me he’s not worth the energy, but you and your well being are. Good luck.
The “need” to be friends with my AC is still very much alive after 5 months of NC but I can talk myself out of it (unlike before). Your post just shows the true motives of why I want it…..and the proof of why I shouldn’t. Thanks again =)
Well guess who decided to show up? My exEUM have been online most of the day today,I have him blocked and I thought he had blocked me too but as I can see he didnt.He havent been online for months and now he is there.I was thinking to unblock him just to see if he tries to talk to me but Im not sure if is a good idea.Tomorrow I make 7 weeks NC already.I dont get why he is doing that,you think he is doing it to see if I go after him? We are in NC so I dont get why he just didnt block me.You think can be his way to try to get a reaction from me?
Anusha,
I think you are overanalyzing him coming online. I think we all do the exact same thing. He is a guy… there is probably no ulterior motive. How does he know that you will see him? Maybe he wants to talk to another person on his list? There could be 100s of reasons but there is really no point driving yourself crazy analyzing.
I wouldn’t suggest trying to challenge him because it won’t accomplish anything. If he talks to you, will that make you feel good? What about if he doesn’t? Either result can be twisted to make you feel bad about yourself. I say keep with the NC! 7 weeks is such a long time! No point giving up now!
My EUM wanted us to stay friends as he said, ‘he couldnt stand not to have me in his life’. I said I didnt think I could do that, and then I decided I would, rather than not have him in my life at all. He kept texting me, usually when he knew I was going away for the weekend, or when he was feeling miserable and down. Then hey presto! as soon as he met someone else, not a word, complete blank, even when his Dad had a stroke, and I loved his Dad, he wouldnt even let me know how he was. A big fat stinking AC with knobs on.
Jay,thanks for your relply.I know it can have milions reasons why he got online but what I dont get is why he wont block me? I have him blocked since the day we broke up.It just fells like he want me to see that he is online.He can see I have been online trough my profile and the updates.I dont know maybe Im over analyzing it but I just have the felling that he is trying to get a reaction from me.Before we broke up he said he didnt do chatts and that the only person he chatted with on MSN was me and now he is online? After not being on for months even,I just think is strange.
Anusha, so maybe he is thinking of you. Problem with these guys is..so what, there is no big deal, when they think of you or if they “want” you. It never comes to mean anything, remember?
If he emailed you, or texted you or called you or even slept with you, ….would it be any different ? Would he come through, would he say and do the right things? Would he suddenly be a man of integrity ?
Just because he is still thinking of you, still interested in you in the same old way how does that make anything different about him? He still wants you, on his terms. Same as it ever was
So really , it odes not matter if he is looking at you, thinking of you, or even wanting you. He could not give you what you wanted before and there is absolutely no reason to think anything has changed.
7 weeks is a good long time, be so proud of that. I hope it is getting easier for you and that makes you want to keep NC going.
aphrogirl,thanks for your reply.I guess you are right,he is still the same AC from before that couldnt give me what I wanted so it doesnt really matter if he is thinking about me.Plus knowing how they are,if he is trying to reach me is probably because he is lonely or want a ego stroke.It is about him and not because he miss me or anything related to me I guess.And anyway if he wants to talk to me he should do more effort than just get online and wait for me to talk to him.He knows how to reach me so he should just do it instead of using that.Anyway you are right,7 weeks is a long time and it wasnt easy to get here so I think is better to just forget it and continue NC.
Thank you NML, very useful post!
WE never put up with any cr@p from our girlfriends…. I dont think my ex will be a good friend, he will drag me back to my miserable days…I am free of him now and I feel like flying, free of headache, no more contacts via calls and texts, no crying and thinking about him every minute…DO I want him as a friend and prolong this madness??? NEVER! No matter how many weeks or months will pass, I will always remember what he put me through…
TJ
I could have written that post myself…word for word. I thought I could be friends, but it is so hard. I DON’T want to know the things that go on in his life. When I have tried to pull away from him…he gets so upset and tries to talk me out of it. Parts of me want to stay in his life (of course, in case he changes his mind) but the better part of me is questioning why I continue to allow this asshole to hurt me. He caused so much heartache and pain, a “friend” would NEVER do that. It will be hard, but I will continue to pull away. I have to, for myself and my daughters. I deserve better, in a friend or in a boyfriend. He is too immature and I really believe that he wants to remain friends with me for all the wrong reasons! Thank you for this post NML. I printed both off and will carry them with me and read them when I feel weak. I just want him out of my head!
Completely true! (sigh) How much time I wasted. But, the important thing is….I LEARNED! Thanks for the “schooling”, NML! Preach on!!
Where is Part 3? I’m anxiously anticipating! My particular assclown is my best friend’s brother. He’s been globbing onto me since his break-up 2 years ago (which happened to coincide precisely with mine). He cares about me and “enjoys my company” and calling me everynight – while he’s not chasing someone local – and the sex (which I’ve stopped – yessss! YESSSS!), but “will NEVER have another long distance relationship” (we live an hour and a half apart). Please give me some rules and guidelines on – well if it’s even possible to maintain a friendship, and HOW to? Or at least what to do when I have to see him and his family, or when he calls.
Thankfully, my last EUM was such a horrible person that I never seriously considered being his friend. The next guy (who it turns out was still in love with his ex) tried desperately to remain friends with me. And though he was a very nice guy, I made the decision that I wasn’t going to take a demotion from girl he was seeing to “friend.” I asked him how he could put me in the same category as people he just hung out with casually, and he couldn’t answer that question. Since I read the site faithfully, I had the strength to cut him off completely and be strong with my refusal to be second best.
NML mentioned something in these two posts about a guy not respecting you and knowing you don’t respect yourself. I broke it off with a guy I wasn’t really attracted to and after explaining the situation (and not offering friendship) he never tried to contact me again. For some reason I had a tremendous amount of respect for him for respecting my wishes and walking away like a man. When you go back and forth with these guys, they totally lose respect for you. Cut them off and stick to it!
I first had an intellectual and professional relationship with my EUM/AC, which soon turn into an emotional relationship, which then turned into a romantic relationship, which then turned into a sexual relationship, and I was hooked.
Once I expected that he, as a romantic partner, be exclusive with me, all of the sudden, his behavior became obnoxious and hurtful. So, I said that I thought we had better no longer be involved. He wanted to, “remain friends.” He felt like, “he was losing his best friend.” Please! He became angry with me for daring to ask questions. The “defining the relationship” talks: those for me were me trying to check my filters in the sense of me saying to him, “You said X, but then you would do Y. Which is it? I’m confused by your behavior.”
The thing is, if my girlfriends behaved that way, I would back away from the relationship if they continued that type of behavior towards me. But yet, there I was, putting up with that really bad behavior from someone who claimed to love me. My particular EUM/AC turned out to be someone who wasn’t a friend. He was too selfish and too insecure to give to anyone.
Anyway, I said that I would try. Soon after, there I was, sexually involved with him, etc. At the end of the day, when I had finally decided that there was nothing that I could do to change the whole situation, I began no contact.
Now that I am removed from the situation, but alas, still emotionally attached (how do I know this? Answer: I would no longer need this site for support), I can see that those he really “hangs” with and confides in are EUM as well. Both males and females. When I sit back and observe, this entire scene boils down to: Like does attract like.
When I look at the other people he hangs with, there is not a one of them I would want to be friends with, so why would I want to be a part of that type of community? Go figure. And yet, I somehow got involved with him.
While everyone has a different situation, for me, I realize that I can’t be friends with him, because he is not, and never was a friend to me.
Great post NML. It makes me so happy that I’ve avoided entering the “friend zone” with my xEUM., not that he hasn’t tried to pull me over to “the dark side” but there just isn’t any benefit to being his friend. All I could possibly gain is more heartache at his hands and after months of NC I’m feeling better then ever. It was a very, very long dark road getting over him. I really doubted many times that I was capable of doing it. But NC is the only way to go. The further away from him I got the better it was for me. That’s when he panicked and started contacting me. He wasn’t in control anymore. I’m not sure if he wants “friendship” or another try at a “relationship” but it doesn’t really matter because either way I lose.
He hasn’t changed and I truly don’t think he ever will. Yes it’s hard to ignore someone you once loved and cared about but it’s the only healthy thing to do. As you said, why on earth would any woman want to be friends with their xEUM? If they were truly friend material we’d still be in the relationship with them.
I was going out with a boy for 10 months, he broke up with me two months ago. Because we never fought while going out and he had always treated me well i though that maybe i could be friends after the breakup ( really, i just wanted him back ) the last time i heard from him, i had sent him a message which he replied to then i sent a message saying I love you. Good night ( stupid, i know ) he didn’t reply so i deleted his number and we have not had contact for two weeks. It is strange how cold boys can become after a relationship and just cut you off like the two of you never knew each other. I feel like i acted needy and desperate after the relationship as i get much to attached to people i love and hate that now he will have an image of me as the needy ex girlfriend in his head so to save any amount of dignity i have left, i know that we cannot be friends.
If you thought past your current, reactive feelings to the situation and considered 1) the real him with his consistent behaviour and character, 2) how you have consistently felt in the relationship, and 3) what you profess to want in the future, there is no way on earth you would give this man the time of day, nevermind a pot to pee in!”
Well…you just couldn’t put it any better than that! Whether it is a “Port O Pot” or a backyard tree stump.
I wish this post had come about 9 months ago, before I agreed to try and be friends with my EUM. It didn’t work and I ended up feeling worse and more used than I had before I went NC on him for 9 months prior. He came crawling back and I thought I had gotten past everything and could be friends when he solicited the “let’s be friends card”.
I was treated worse than ever, he was even more unavailable and it’s true he only wanted to make himself feel better by claiming to want to be friends when he had no intention of how a real friendship works. I felt the drama stirring up inside me, saw red flags but ignored them anyway. I was betting on potential.
Truth is – he never changed not one bit. He claimed to “miss me” but he didn’t he just needed an ego stroke now and then and only contacted me when it was convenient for him. It was just awful.
After 2 months of that BS I cut the ties for good and have remained faithful to the NC rule, found this site and when I did I felt that I had finally located a place where other women were as distraught as I was and could understand. My girlfriends were tired of me talking about the EUM, I had no where else to go. So thanks NML for helping us with low self-esteem, insecure women get back on our feet and start believing in ourselves and standing up for ourselves.
Without this site, who knows what may have happened I’m sure he would have contacted me again, and again and the boomerang relationship would have continued. And I would still be feeling miserable as ever.
I still think of the Assclown, but not as much and when he comes to mind I shift gears to move past it. I know I’m still not healed because I still visit this site when I have weak moments and feel down about myself. It’s just a process, we all heal and grieve differently but just keep putting one foot in front of the other and keep going. The best thing I’ve ever done is to go NC and leave the EUM behind. There is or will be someone better for me, when I’m ready to receive them. I’m just not ready at the moment.
Thank you NML for your clear words and like ‘kissie’ I can’t wait for part 3!
Big smile…
Nail —> Head. You described my ex-friend perfectly (the one I was “friends” with on and off for 12-13 years). I’m so glad I cut him off for good. He still asks around about me. Loser. 😐
Oh yeah, it’s been 14 months of NC for me. It wasn’t hard to cut him off at all. Feels great. 🙂 Also just cut off an ex. We were friends for about 12 years and he’s always been an assclown, but he crossed the line with me when he said some VERY disrespectful and inappropriate things about my younger brother. That was the last straw. He, too, has contacted my friend to try to get to me. My friend is such an idiot. 😐
As NML states above:
“Here’s the thing: Most women I come across say they want to find love and be in a serious relationship.”
One thing I can only speak for myself is that I never really knew what my needs were. What I wanted in a man, in a relationship, what makes me happy, what makes me feel loved, etc.
I think the other topic this hits on is the fact that when we keep finding ourselves in these poor relationships, with these type of men we are merely walking in the dark and fumbling for the light switch in our own lives. We are not taking responsibility for ourselves, and really trying to figure out what we want, what our needs are and then finding or accepting a man who can meet those needs.
Many of us are just accepting the best thing that comes along (which happens to be an EUM), and we bend to THEIR needs because we have no plan for ourselves. So we like what they like, the AC’s tell us we’re too this or that and we believe them and do what we can to be more accomodating to THEM. This way of thinking is backwards.
I recently read an article of woman who found herself in poor relationships repeatedly and she finally put down on paper the type of guy she would liike to meet. It became her roadmap, and it kept her from jumping into bed with men after having one too many at the pub, and it kept her true and honest to herself. Sure she flirted it up, but she knew where to draw the line because she stuck to what she wrote on the paper and listened to the red flags, heeded the gut warnings and didn’t get involved with men who only wanted to use her for a quick shag, or an ego stroke.
Moral of story for me is to first heal and mend, take better care of myself now, and going forward. To build my self-esteem, stop feeling insecure and be OK with being alone with myself. Know what I’m looking for in a relationship with someone else, and if I’m not getting that it’s time to exit, and meet someone who has the qualities I’m looking for.
I’m not a bad person, I just never took the time to really get to know myself very well. I was too busy being a people pleaser, a helpy helperton, and caretaker of others. It’s a different role for me, but it’s getting easier every day.
Better,
yes those are great thoughts. I also think if you like people, like to find the good in people, you may be willing to get to know just about anybody.
But if someone is troubled in a subtle way, as the EUM is, you can get sucked in before you know it, and then try to “help them” with their troubles.
OOOPS, we all know about that here ! Well, except maybe if you just got to this site, maybe not…and welcome and plan to spend a good deal of time here reading and learning.
In my case, lesson learned, EUM is something to watch out for.
I never realized how naive I have been for saying that we are still friends. I guess I feel like it means you are not a crazy girl when you can stay friends with someone after a break up. Like you can be the bigger person. I read somewhere that NC removes you from the stage and puts you in the audience. After awhile you will start to realize that you have seen this show too many times, you know how it ends, you know all the lines and you tire of the same disappointing characters. NC prevents you from buying into it all and allows you to live in reality.
When I got off the stage that was our relationship..I realized that everyone else had gone too.
After trying for a few months to be “friends” I have realized this morning and after reading all of the advice and comments on here…that I do not want to be friends with this moron! I am not a priority to him and will never be! I have officially begun NO CONTACT this morning and he has texted twice, to which I have not responded and now I am getting the barage of phone calls….none of which I have answered! I can do this. We work together (he is off today), but I need to know if anyone can help me with any advice on how to deal with seeing him tomorrow and how do I no the NC when we work together!
devastated ..
“any advice on how to deal with seeing him tomorrow and how do I no the NC when we work together!”
MY advice….work all day today and tonight to devlelop one or two very clear, very kind statements about why you are doing NC. Try not to make them blame statements, just statements about you and your needs. Maybe write them up for him.
Tomorrow, tell him what you are doing and why, give him the paper and thank him for your time together. Give him a hug, Remember, you are not out to get one up on him, get back at him, blame him, be more right, gain control or anything. You are choosing to distance yourself emotionally from him.
Then, stick to it. Since you work with him you will be doing the emotional version of NC, no emotional contact. Sort of like the EUM, was with you, but unlike the EUM you are not implying that you are trying to develop something – you are trying to end something.
Good luck.
Devastated,
When I went NC I wrote and wrote, but what really ended up being my main point was the EUM was not welcome is my life anymore as he did not see the value of working to have a kind honest and respectful relationship with me. And that unwillingness to work to stop his unkind and dishonest behavior had become too abusive, it was hard for me to ” enjoy” the friendship any longer.
aphrogirl
Thank you…I will do exactly that. I know that at some point he will question me and ask why I am ignoring him (or maybe he won’t) if he does I will be prepared to tell him why I am doing what I am doing. And I want him to know it’s for me…not because of him. There is really no sense trying to be friends with him. He has no real friends and I really don’t think he even knows what it means to be friends with someone. He blows hot and cold with everyone and everything in his life. I just can no longer do this to myself. It’s not worth it. Thank you and I know this will be hard, but it can’t possibly be any harder then the way I’m living now!
Devastated,
If you are truly serious about NC I would not wait for him to ask, I would take the lead, in a non threatening way, and intiate the brief “conversation” where you have rehearsed your two line statement so that is so clear it offers no room for discussion.
I recently made a long post somewhere on this site, recalling my split with my partner of 20 years, ( not the EUM). It was successful, and as pleasant as possible and without drama because we faced it calmly and honestly. I would encourage you to do the same and do not wait for him to ask wassup. This will convey the seriousness of your intention to end the version of friendship you have shared. Even though these friendships are unfulfilling, any ending is painful and hard and it is temporarily easier to avoid confronting all that and continue in some frustrating way with these guys.
aphrogirl
You are right. I will see him tomorrow and I have already written my 2 lines that I want to say to him. I would have never imagined that it would be this hard to ignore his calls today. He has been relentless! He even called my daughter’s phone to see where I was?? I’m sure he will get bored soon. When you start NC, what do you do with all his stuff? I have it put in bags at my home. Leaving it on his doorstep is not an option (he lives in a apartment building). Should I bring it tomorrow to work, or just put it in the attic until later? Maybe I should just throw it all away?? Thanks for the advice! I hope this works….I already feel a little impowered by not responding to him today. (if I would have done that before…there would have been hell to pay)
devastated
” When you start NC, what do you do with all his stuff? I have it put in bags at my home. ”
Remember, NC means initiating NO contact, including him or you asking about the stuff in the future. If there is valuable stuff in those bags, or you think either one of you will use the bags of stuff as an excuse to get a foot in the door….remember, you are about to begin NC.
In that case, I’d bring the stuff to work, leave it in my trunk if too much to bring in, and get the subject of the bags out of the way at the end of the brief conversation.” I have your things in bags in my trunk, if you want them you can come with me and get them at lunchtime or after work.”
If he wants it and you have to walk to get the stuff together, keep the conversation brief, do not deviate from your statements of intent. repeat them as often as you have to. At this stage of NC your goal is…no emotional contact.
Remember, you are not trying to meet up with him, and you do not want to see him or talk with him, nor give him a reason to contact you and meet up with you in the future.
And it may be a bit hard to really understand this right now. These guys really trigger some kind of validation seeking in us with all their hot and cold- push/ pull behavior. Right now you are tangled in his web, NC is what will help you get free. Maybe someday he will work on his stuff and learn how to be a stable and secure friend. For now you can’t hold your breath.
Doing this is hard because you are devastated, you got used to him in all his crappy AC glory, and you wanted it to be different and way better than it can be. Been there, NC is the way out. Be patient, it can take a few weeks or more of true NC to mentally break free of wishing and wanting it to be different. In my case it was almost two months, and now I am spending many more weeks understanding ” what the heck was that ? ” Read Part 3 of this series, just posted, its dead on. Good luck.
I only wanted to stay ‘friends’ because I was so desperately unwilling to accept the fact he didn’t want me, and I couldn’t let go.
Loving Annie’s last blog post..Drinking Sucks
*I promise this will head somewhere. If you’ll just hear me out… I could really use a good support team* I have ADHD (attention deficit hyperactive disorder) whether you believe it exists or not, I’m telling you right now it does. Neurotransmitters in my brain don’t work properly: I have impulsivity, temperament, focus issues, etc. If that’s not hard enough to deal with, I thought I could do without the medication… I’ve been off ADHD meds for about 4 years. People with ADHD have problems maintaining long-term relationships, I recently discovered this. I grew up with a neglectful and/or verbally abusive dad who cheated on my mom for 22 years before they separated for other reasons altogether (I’ve forgiven him, no one’s perfect, sometimes I think I tend to settle for loser guys in relationships as a result of low self-esteem. And even when I know they’re ACs I try to maintain the relationship, try to “fix” whatever is going wrong. I have a justified and unjustified fear of being cheated on. The first few guys I dated were all cheaters) This last guy I was dating, was in my mind… the nicest guy I had ever been exclusive with. I realize everyone show’s the shiny side of the apple first though. Before we started dating he showed me pictures of him and his ex, since she was snuggling up to him I figured those were from when they were dating last year. He would occasionally bring her up in conversation, and explained that she has had breast cancer for 7 years… which given her lifestyle I doubt. The fact he’s the only one she’s told this to leads me to believe she’s lying. They were friends 3 months before dating for 6 months, she rarely kissed him or showed him affection while they were together. After the fact she’d dumped him, she told him she was “falling for him” which I think is total lie. And he wanted to remain friends for whatever reasons. He’d suspected she was cheating on him (he was a virgin, and still is. I never forced him to slept with me. I was the first girl who really did sexual things with him however) anyway, he found out she had cheated on him while they were together after they’d broken up. Yet he still talks to her occasionally because they were “friends” before dating and because she supposedly has cancer. Our relationship was great in the beginning, we were only together 2 months. I had 2 spurts of jealousy that lasted for a couple weeks. I’d discovered he had lots of these photos of her with him in his website’s album (including the couple I’d seen) she’s leaning into him putting her head under his, touching his chest. Her dress is so sort you can literally see between her legs. At that time she supposedly had a bf of her own… they’re hanging out at a Hookah bar (but she has cancer, right?)Photos taken 2 months before him and I started spending time together. I wanted him to remove those photos, he claimed he only put them on his site because they were the most recent ones of him. And that they’re still friends but had no problem removing the photos. It took him over a week to do this and once he did, I felt better. When she found out he was dating me I’d found out she was calling him, texting him a whole lot and was telling him she wanted to meet me. Keep in mind, she has her own bf. 2nd day I’d spent time with him (pre-dating phase) he kissed me. She’d called him and was yelling at him about his birthday plans for the next day… I just felt very uncomfortable. You could tell though that he was irritated by her, his friends claim and he claims he would never go back to dating her. Eventually I stopped being jealous of the situation. He’d almost dumped me for being jealous when in my mind I had every reason to be wary of her because I didn’t hear more about her and his relationship until I’d talked to his best friend’s gf Allie *fake name* who also almost pushed away her guy from jealous of this other girl… who later called Allie a ho for no reason, so Allie and her bf no longer wanted to have anything to do with this female. He told me next time it happened he would have to break up with me. But we met that night he almost did it, first thing he did was hold my hand to his heart and said “can you feel how fast it’s beating?” He told me he wasn’t wanting to break-up with me and even while he was hanging out with his best friend and Allie, he was telling them how much he likes me. And they were saying “man I’m sorry, we thought you guys were really good for eachother”. Last two times I’d hungout with them and my ex I seemed irritated because I was, about his ex situation. One of the times Allie had brought her up infront of us, and I realized that the few times my ex had mentioned his “good friend” who was holding onto his hookah for him, it was his ex gf who was the “good friend”. Allie was joking saying we should stop by his ex’s place and get back his hookah and her bf’s things that she had. I teased him and said “yeah, since you guys are such great buddies” he said “hell no we’re not!” He does this thing where one minute he describes her as a friend and next she’s not. I was in a bad mood after this and he got in a bad mood. Then we made-up. I felt bad because when we’d dropped off his friends at their place he’d said “aww aren’t they a cute couple?” Now that the relationship is over, I worry I left them with a bad impression of me. That I’m just a completely miserable person who didn’t truly really like their friend. Anyway, he was always wanting to see me everyday in our relationship. Until he got sick with the flu. I have trust issues (I believe trust should be earned) He initially thought he just had a cold, even though we’d kissed a lot, I was feeling fine. He’d told me before that he rarely gets sick and when he does he gets over it within a couple days. By day 5 of being sick I was beginning to think he was just blowing me off. I would ask him… have you been missing me? He’d say of course. Then he felt better for a couple days and when I saw him and heard his raspy voice I knew he hadn’t been lying about feeling bad and I put cold rags on his head, felt bad for thinking otherwise. This 2nd day of hanging out he’d put me on his lap, we made-out, flirted, and watched movies together. He was on a curfew… parents, don’t ask… he’s hispanic. But stayed an hour past his curfew to be with me. All was good in the world. lol. Next day he goes fishing with his family all day, it’s something he does once a week. He decided he felt better so went swimming in a cold lake. He had a relapse of being sick and discovered he had, had the flu this whole time. I was upset that he would even go swimming in a cold lake after feeling so sick… we went for another 6 days of not seeing eachother. I don’t have a vehicle so I couldn’t just up and see him even though he’s 10 minutes from me, plus I’d not met his family yet since they speak Spanish and in a way I was trying to avoid the awkwardness of that. He wanted to introduce me, I didn’t turn down the offer ever, we’d just end up spending time together and the action never took place. For these next 6 days I continued the “I miss you” and “hope you get better soon so we can spend time together”. Inbetween this time he’d told me he fantascizes about me. And would have slept with me that last day we’d been together. Then day 7 I find out he’s hanging out past his curfew with his friends. I’m not sure if he’s an AC or not. We got in a petty fight, not about a girl, that was long gone. He seemed to be upset that I hadn’t messaged him until 7:30 pm. When for the past 13 days I’d been messaging him first earlier in the day. I’d been in bed all day with a migraine, body ached. Etc. He had asked me what was wrong when I told him I was in bed all day. I told him it wasn’t important and sent him one of those silly kiss emoticons. He asked again, I told him again it wasn’t important and asked him if he was going to kiss me back. lol. He said not until I tell him what’s wrong, I said fine I’ll go to bed. I’d found out terrible news that morning about a friend of mine having gone into a coma, so I honestly didn’t want to talk about it. Anyway, my response made him mad. And I tell him what happens minus the coma and he begins asking me why he had to pry that out of me. I told him I realize me having a migraine, etc. wasn’t all that important but when he has a slight cough it’s a big deal to him. Then I told him about my friend who he barely knows being in the coma. The slight cough comment I made set him over the edge. “Slight cough my ***!” And tells me he feels I’ve been insensitive towards his being sick the whole time. He starts telling me goodbye like he’s breaking up with me. I’m explaining to him that I didn’t mean slight cough as in him having the flu. His friends and I tease him because he complains of cough or back ache from time to time. And he’ll laugh it off. Eventually I got mad he wasn’t listening (miscommunication) and said “fine goodbye since that’s what you want”. And that’s what he wanted. At first he just kept saying he was confused. I told him “yes baby, you’ve been sick” and that just seemed to validate that he wanted the break-up. He started saying he wasn’t ready for a relationship, that he needed time to be single to fix the thoughts in his head. Eventually I started thinking he just needed some space so I agreed and said I wanted to work on myself. We talked 2 and 1/2 hours past the time he was saying he wanted to break up. He said I was a great person and wanted to stay friends. Apologized if he had lead me on then told me he didn’t lie about liking me so very much. I was asking him to break up with me to my face since he’s so serious but he refused to do that. Suggested us toning it down, etc. but he just kept saying he wasn’t ready for a relationship with anyone. And suggested us having a movie night and promised not to touch him if that’s what he wanted. He at first said no to the idea then later said he would consider it. He kept apologizing and saying he felt bad for breaking it off and that he just can’t handle it. That he needs to be single for awhile. At the end of the conversation he was telling me we would still spend time together and said “Night gorgeous”. I decided not to contact him, for fear of pushing him away. 2 days later at 1 am he contacts me “hey sorry for not messaging you all day. I hope you’re ok” I happened to sign-in at that very instant and maybe made a mistake by responding right away. We ended up flirting alittle. There was talk that we both want to better ourselves. I reminded him of movie night and just told him to let me know when he would want to do that. Maybe within the next couple weeks, he said “no prob”. We talked for 30 minutes. He’d said “maybe someday we’ll both be ready and confident” which made me feel like I still had a chance for the future. At the end of the conversation he said “Night gorgeous” I said “Night cutie” we exchanged smiley faces. Then I don’t hear from him at all for 5 days. So I sent him a couple texts saying “Hope your soul-searching and trying to better yourself are coming along. I started my CNA classes, I’m a class clown but I get the job done. I’m trying to be the best I can be and I’ve been praying a lot. Okie, well catch you later.” See at this point I’m just trying to remain friends and since everyone thought his excuse for breaking up that day was a cop out, I was hoping for a response but didn’t expect one since I’d only made statements. 12 hours later he sends “I’m glad to hear it. I’m working on it. Been applying for jobs”. Just a very short reply. He’d had a gall bladder surgery before I met him and was laid off by the company he was working for when it closed down. He went from making good money for the area to just getting drawing unemployment and getting in-come that way. Now I don’t know what to do. I feel horrible because I feel that maybe if I’d been sweeter or something towards the end or had kept my jealousy in we would still be together. When it was good between us, it was really good. I know he bragged about how excellent he felt when we kissed. All I can do is think about that last time we hungout. And finding out how he almost slept with me. And I’m so lost because nothing really in his actions made me feel that he wasn’t ready for a relationship. I want to be friends in the least, and I feel like he’s not giving me that chance because we weren’t friends for 3 months before we started dating. And upset that he treated us as a couple from the start so I didn’t get to be his “friend” first anyway. I wonder if he thinks about me at all. If since it was a short relationship he just doesn’t care and is only trying to be cordial. Or if he’s an AC for calling me gorgeous twice post break-up then stops contacting me. I felt like he really liked me, and I’m thinking guess he lied if he’s doing this now. Then I think about all the positive things he’d told his friends about me. (Not knowing whether he told them anything negative) Thinking about all these plans he wanted to do with me just a week before the break-up. How much Allie really liked me. I think about how maybe he was nicer to the girl before me after the break-up because they never really kissed and she did the breaking up. And she told him she has had cancer for 7 years. And I’m wondering… why can’t he extend the same courtesy to me? Or maybe he really is busy and trying to better himself. I realize the best thing for me to do right now is focus on myself. I’m working on continuing to lose weight, finish school, go do more schooling, get the good job, save for a vehicle, etc. prove something to me and him. Neither one of us have large social groups, both of us are from other states who happened to move to our current residencies. I genuinely miss him. I know I can kiss anybody, etc. but I genuinely miss him. What do I do? I know neither one of us are super confident. Both of us had gained weight last year. I however had lost 63 lbs. but I’m still 30 lbs. from my goal weight and can’t seem to get it off. My best friend who met him through us all spending time together… she honestly felt like he was drawn to me. Even though we tried to contain the exchanging of kisses, etc. since she’s single right now. And expected us to get back together. Help please? I know it’s long, but I’m just so sad. Thanks for reading.
p.s. Again I’m sorry that was so long, I figured I needed to give you the full explanation in order to get the best advice. And future replies will NOT be so extensive. 🙁 lol.
Hi Brad, thanks for your reply. I understand the whole “walking wounded” thing. I know I can’t control what he does or decides to do, I’m frustrated that he lets this ex walk all over him… and have a hard time thinking he’ll have a sincere relationship with any women until he cuts ties with this lady. Anyway, just writing back to give an update: He contacted me 4 days ago out of the blue. Sent a text saying “hey” I was half asleep and ignored it. An hour later he calls me, cell rang forever I ignored it (really tired, figured he’d leave a voicemail if it were important- well he didn’t) next day I text him “Hi. You called me yesterday? Why did you call?” He tells me, “Nothing. Nevermind”. I said “Oh okay. ??” He told me “I was just going to ask you a question, it’s okay, I forgot what it was now” I told him “I just went to bed early yesterday”, he said “It’s ok”. Then finally I said “It’s okay for you, because you broke up with me. But I’m confused. Next time you call, you can leave me a voicemail message or something. Maybe I will talk to you later. Right now I’m going to take a nap”. I haven’t texted him directly since and haven’t heard from him either. Questions: ((is that possible? To forget that fast? Geez…)) I was feeling like he was playing mind games with me… any thoughts on that and why?? I don’t even know if it was a good/bad question. I’ll never know now I guess.
A couple weeks earlier his ex, one before me, was asking why he didn’t have her on his top friends for a certain website, and called him a jerk. You could tell she wasn’t happy about it. (Ironic since I called him a turd once and it upset him, anyway, after this last time of texting he decides to put this ex on his top friends’, why she complained at all is beyond me… since she doesn’t have him on hers. It’s like a control thing. After he tried contacting me, and I’d tried telling him I went to bed early… he’d kept saying it’s okay but maybe not. Because he ended up taking me off top friends and putting her on there instead.) Why is this hurting me so bad? I guess I thought we’d be more likely to be able to be friends afterwards but he’s confusing me so much. 🙁
Jaimee B,
I think you need to ask yourself what you’re getting out of this friendship- All of his actions sound like a bunch of games to me? You have said that when there is contact there seems to be a lot of confusion and hurt on your end, friendship should be about love, caring and support, not craziness.
I have to ask why you’re still in contact with this man?
His actions matched his words… I truly thought he liked me as much as he said he did. The whole time he was sick with the flu before he broke up with me he said he was missing me. I think it’s unfair he broke up with me via IM and refused to do it to my face. His explanation or lack thereof… really upset me at first. Then I tried to be understanding. He goes then and calls me “gorgeous” twice post-break up. There was talk of being friends, I was hoping to try and be friends because I genuinely liked him… I liked who I was when I was around him, how we flirted, how we seemed to connect. Now I wonder… was it all just a lie? I mean… who calls up an ex like that? I feel like he’s punishing me for not picking up the phone i.e. I didn’t pick up when he called so he wouldn’t tell me why he called in the first place. And the curiousity… now I’m left confused, curious. Sad now… since he’s apparently still letting his ex before me manipulate him. And he claims he’s still friends with her. I guess I’m feeling like “why not me? Why her and not me? At least I complimented you and showed you affection… so why are you doing this to me?” Another part of me is wondering… does this sound like an AC to these other people? And if he’s Emotionally unattached… he’s a virgin so hrmm. Do I need to maybe just delete him off my websites altogether? I’m sure he still has my phone number and knows my IM screen name, if he ever decides to stop doing this to me.
Jaimee B,
I think you need to let this one go for good.
The fact that this man/boy broke up with you via IM says a great deal about his character, or should I say lack of. This is terrible. it shows a lack of respect for you as well for himself.
It is impossible to be friends with someone when there are feelings still attached, I mean how are you going to handle it when he discusses other girls and dating? It has been stated many times before that you cannot be friends with an ex until you are able to accept their new love interests. It seems that you’re are holding out in hopes that he will recognize that he has made a mistake and will return to you, actually by sticking around you are guaranteeing that you will be friend-zoned, and what did you get in the end wasted time and energy.
I still go back to the disrespectful way this man ended the relationship and the fact that he has not moved on from the ex, this is a no win situation.
Please try to go NC and find someone who can and will appreciate you.
What would be a good way for me to gain some closure? I didn’t get any. I feel if I go NC I should at least explain something to him. It’s bothersome how everyone else can see how his ex before me tries to keep her foot in the door to toy with his mind… not sure why or how come he doesn’t realize this yet. You know, we did have a lot in common. We could be friends if he weren’t doing this back and forth… going to talk to you and confuse you then ignore you for days game. I wish there were a decent way for me to gain some closure, telling him I deserved to be treated better, etc. Any pointers??
Jaimee B,
The only way you’re going to get closure is to go NC. Forever!
I too felt I owed the ex an explanation but in hindsight I wish I had just cut him off without explanation. This man did not deserve the courtesy of understanding why I could no longer associate with him, as he had showed me so little courtesy in our ‘relationship.’ You have to do what you’re comfortable with but if you do want to remove yourself from the pain and confusion, remove yourself from this situation.
Good luck!!!!!!!
Brad,
You are so right! I know that most of the women on this site are looking for their whatever to get in touch with them. I believe it has something to do with their self esteem. However, as I have pointed out many time before, when these guys really do decide to get in contact with you, for me, it was a horrible experience. It reinforced the fact of how weak I really was. How badly I felt about myself, that I was willing to take whatever they wanted to give. I think I have a fairly healthy outlook on life now;I love myself more than anyone else. I am not egotistical, I just know that if I keep my head high, and respect myself, no one can pull me down to their level.
Well being friends was when things became even clearer to me. Probably the two months of being friends hurt me more than the last 4 months of back and forth in the relationship. He was always busy, there was work or something else always and the guy who in the first two months was so eager to please me was gone. In the friends phase his behaviour was almost the same so I wondered if we are getting back asked and got told no friends is better for us. I now realise that he figured if he could have me caring for him almost the same way as friends what was so wrong. Its 6 months to the break up and 3 months to NC now. I stumbled onto this site as suddenly of late I had started missing him awfully. Basically I lost perspective of my growth, though I was trying my best. My trouble is I see myself as a lonely girl and I need to change that. Truth is I have made more friends, most of them girls for the first time in my life, and even recognised two ACs and stopped things from going anywhere in the first few encounters itself. I still have feelings for my ex and sometimes I end up beating myself up about this and that is when the depression strikes even more. I have been strong but I let vampires of all forms suck my blood for too long. Not anymore.
Learningtomoveon
I don’t think there is any point in being friends with AC’s; EUM’s and Narcissists of any kind. Its is pointless and you are putting yourself through pure hell all over again. Gain some strength, and dignity and move on.
Unless they say I want to be in a relationship with you, etc. its the “same old thing”. It is OK to be ALONE, it is in fact liberating.
Don’t pick up the phone.
I am writing again because I think it is essential for women to regain their power, many thanks to Natalie and this empowering website for women.
Whatever it takes, albeit alcohol or anything unhealthy…find yourself – and regain your power – you do not need approval from the outside – nor do you need to recreate childhood patterns – to not fail or get it “right” this time. Decide what love is for you and look at it, is it healthy love? Work on yourself until the right one comes along, he will and you will be ready! Don’t settle for less!