So we reach the final part of this three-parter on whether you can, or should stay friends with a Mr Unavailable and/or assclown. In part one, I explained the immediate factors that make it tricky to stay friends with these men and the real reasons why you will want to stay ‘friends’, and in part two I followed it up by explaining the true dynamics of these dubious ‘friendships’. Both posts continued to beg you to ask the question:
Why the hell do I want to be friends with this man?
You also need to realise this: relationships cannot and should not involve projection and where there is a Mr Unavailable and/or an assclown, projection is there like a great big beacon of light radiating from you.
You project how you feel about him and how you want him to feel about you and hope he will reciprocate.
This means that when you are in the relationship, you project what you think, feel, and want onto him even though he is thinking, feeling, and wanting something else.
When the relationship ends and you are still emotionally invested, you continue to project and now it becomes projecting what you want him to see about you onto him, in the hope that he will recognise how wonderful you are, regret it, and value you.
Staying friends with a Mr Unavailable or assclown is about seeking validation.
Let’s not pretend – we do hope that these guys have a light bulb moment and become riddled with regret, and come crawling back on their hands and knees.
However, many want the fairy tale, so he does all of this and you run off like Carrie and Mr Big to the registry office and the agony melts away… It would be so much better if you at least hoped he’d regret it, came crawling back…and you told him to beat it…
Ultimately, does it need to be so much work to get someone to recognise your value?
In fact, should there be any work?
Why do you want to put so much work into a ‘friendship’?
Why do your relationships have to involve projection?
Your feelings are independent of each other – you can’t love for the both of you…or be friends for the both of you. Don’t make the mistake of switching from dragging someone along for the free relationship ride, to dragging them along for the free friendship ride.
Stop forcing things and spend your time around people who respect, value, care, trust, and love you. But remember, men like this recognise that you may not respect, value, care, trust, and love yourself enough because you give them the time of day.
My golden rule of staying friends with an ex is this:
If you are over him, are no longer emotionally invested in either a positive or negative way (not in love or not angry), there has been at least a few months of space, and you have both moved on, knock yourselves out.
If you are still emotionally invested and are projecting anything, and I really do mean anything, on to this guy, which means you have expectations that go beyond what he is capable of delivering…but you’re hoping for it anyway, I would skip friendship.
You cannot just ‘switch’ to friendship with a Mr Unavailable or assclown because they don’t respect boundaries.
In fact, they don’t respect you, and they do things on their terms…or not at all.
Don’t make the mistake of doing the glass is half full and going on about his good points as if these give you a green light for friendship; if you spent more time seeing the bigger picture, you’d realise that his bad points give you a red light for a relationship and a friendship.
If you have to come into contact with your Mr Unavailable or assclown, it’s not friendship you need; you just need to learn the ability to be cordial and polite.
Cordial and polite doesn’t involve you phoning each other, texting, emailing, or having sex or a cheeky snog on occasion.
Being cordial and polite to your ex means that if and when you should both cross paths and there are people around, or there aren’t other people around, but you’re not good at being cold, you do the bare minimum.
The problem with women who are attracted to Mr Unavailables and assclowns is that we’re over-givers. Case in point: he throws you crumbs, you chomp at the bit and throw back a loaf.
This means that when we stay friends with these men after we break up with them:
they send a one line text – we dial them straight away or send them back a lengthy text expressing our emotions
they call and hang up – we spend the next week wondering what that call meant
they call and get through – you’re thinking about getting back together and imagining going on holiday together or what your friends faces will be like. He on the other hand is thinking about how he can slip having a hook-up into the conversation…
If you over-give in your relationships with men, trust me when I say you will over-give in your friendships with them.
You need to rein yourself back in for the sake of yourself.
You come first. This means that right now, it is in your best interests to put some distance between you both because with distance comes objectivity, and with objectivity, you should start to see that this guy is not worthy of your time.
In you coming first, it does not serve your best interests to be friends with this man as soon as the relationship ends because you already have a prior history with this guy that shows what can happen when you are around him.
If you continue to stay ‘friends’, as I said in part two, the dynamic won’t really change because he will still be in control of the ‘friendship’ whilst you are literally going through some sort of ‘mindf*ck’.
Being friends removes responsibility because anything you say or do that he wants to dodge the bullet on, he can say that you know the relationship is over and that it was only friendship that was on offer.
You also need to remember that unless you were genuine friends before you became ‘lovers’ (this is not the same as being friends with a guy who always had every intention of getting into your knickers…or you being friends with him in the hope that he would get into your knickers…), then you were never actually friends in the first place.
You must set the boundaries from the outset even if it makes you feel uncomfortable.
You can set boundaries verbally or with actions, but even if you opt with the former, it must be followed up with actions.
You, not him, need to be in the driving seat of this, and trust me, when he realises that he can’t be in control of the dynamic, you’ll be of less interest.
When an ex Mr Unavailable said we should stay friends and keep in touch, I said “Well we have just broken up, so if you call me over the next couple of months or so, I’m not going to answer your calls or return them…”
Of course he didn’t believe me so he called and left messages or hung up, but he got no response and he tired of it.
If you bump into him somewhere or he catches you on the phone (these guys love calling from different numbers), be polite, but brief, and make a quick escape, telling him that you’re busy and about to go into a meeting.
Don’t panic and worry about his hurt feelings or whether he was calling up to tell you something majorly important because trust me, he’s not. Don’t believe me? Take his call and discover all too quickly that he’s full of hot air, gagging for an ego stroke, and has not given an itty bitty thought to whether it will have any negative effect on you.
We lose too much frickin’ sleep over what these guys might think!
You don’t need to answer his calls just because he called. It’s just a call.
You don’t need to return a call just because he left a voicemail. It’s just a voicemail.
You don’t need to worry about doing the decent thing; he’s never lost any sleep over how he has treated you. I’m not suggesting you be horrible; I’m suggesting that worrying about how nice and decent you can be is a waste of energy.
Whatever amount of thought you spend on these guys, divide it by any number above 2 and you getting a lot closer to the truth of how much time he is spending thinking about you!
If you work together, set clear, verbal boundaries and make it clear that if they are crossed, the consequence will be that you will cut him off.
When I ended it with the Mr Unavailable I’d been involved with at work, each time he crossed the line, I made it known. I learned very quickly that trying to be all nicey-nice and acting like good friends was stupid – he, like many others, didn’t know how to respect my boundaries. In the end, I worked my way back to cordial and the moment he realised I was dating and that there really was no chance of getting laid or an ego stroke, funny enough, he didn’t want to be friends anymore. What a shame… NOT!
Do not share detail about yourself with these guys. Hello, goodbye, and ‘I’m fine’ is more than sufficient. If you work together, keep the conversation strictly work.
If you have to come into contact with these guys, keep conversations as brief as possible and do not share anything that gives them an opening.
Do not ego stroke, don’t listen to their problems, and no matter how much they beg and plead, and no matter how horny you are, do not give them any sex, foreplay, kisses, whatever. No sexual contact!
You will discover that when you remove all of these things out of the friendship equation, they don’t want to be your ‘friend’…
Remember, cordial and polite..and brief.
The moment that you have to validate his ego, or he starts waffling on about his life, cut the conversation short. Let him go and ‘offload’ on someone else.
If the conversation and his behaviour becomes flirtatious or sexual, cut off immediately and ignore him. If he asks why you’re ignoring him, say that it’s clear that friendship is not what he has in mind and you won’t be used. If you’re not good enough to be in a bonafide relationship with him, you’re not going to be palmed off with a bit part shag…
Learn how to beam mega watt smiles even if you are in turmoil – it scares the crap out of them because they think you’re happy and have possibly moved on…which puts them out of control. Practise in front of the mirror but avoid the crazy look…
Disregard all lazy contact – do not respond to text messages, instant messenger, or emails, especially those pathetic joke ones that they all love to send. They mean nothing other than that they’re engaging in lazy, disconnected contact. Don’t analyse them – it’s these men’s way of tending the ego garden…
Treat them as you do your other friends. Are you in love with them? Do you let them walk all over you? Do you allow them to send you inappropriate messages, often of a sexual nature? Can they call you up in the night or turn up and slip under your covers? Do you flirt with them? Do you obsess about them? Do you cry yourself to sleep at night? Do you hope they’ll see how great you are?
I hope you don’t have friends like this as it sounds like you’re getting taken advantage of at all angles…
If you share mutual friends, ask them not to tell you details about him and if you suspect that any of your friends are serving him info about you, tell them not to, or stop sharing with them. You quickly learn who your friends are in these situations.
If you’re really hurting, mutual friends that have your best interests at heart, will understand if you don’t want to hang out as a big gang for a while.
But I always say you can judge people by their friends… In particular, assclowns often hang with other assclowns.. Mr Unavailables often have eager beaver Mr Unavailable friends only too willing to ‘help’ you through your heartbreak plus hey often have female friends for a great big ego stroke. Be very careful of the company you keep…
Ultimately, you need to decide – do you actually want to move on and find love in a healthy relationship?
If you do, I suggest you shed this excess baggage and hang with some real friends and start to learn to like and love yourself so that you’re not even contemplating remaining friends with these men. Because if you did like, love, respect, trust, and value yourself more and had boundaries as a core part of your life, you wouldn’t be trying to be friends with the very men that will deplete you of these very things.
Your thoughts?
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What an awesomely awesome series of posts that get to the bottom of the whole EUM experience, including the need for validation.
Somehow I think the worst of the EUM’s unknowingly help us “get in touch” with this infantile need for validation and an insecurity most of us had about not being validated when we were youngsters.
Knowing and understanding the truth, standing with both feet on the ground and paying attention is at the core of setting yourself free from wanting to stay involved with EUM.
As always. I am grateful for your very helpful words NML.
Great article,I liked it a lot 🙂 I was the one who asked to be friends with my exEUM the two times we broke up but now I learned the lesson.It realy help to think why on earth you want to be friends with him? He never cared about me or my fellings,he has no empathy so why on earth I want to be friends with somebody like that? The first time we broke up and we were friends for 6 months,he couldnt care less about my life.We would exchange emails and all he did on his emails was tell about his life,he wouldnt ask anything about mine or coment anything about the things I told him.Even if something realy nice or bad happened he wouldnt say “good for you” or “that is bad”.What kind of friend is that? Realy NML is right,it isnt worth it.
Something else I want to ask,is how I stop that wanting(I used to call it love but I dont think it was love anymore now that Im becoming emotionaly healthy) for my exEUM.I still have like a craving felling for him.I wonder if once I have built my self esteem and love for myself I wont fell it anymore? I have done everything possible to be away from him,like being in NC,blocking anything related to him and so on.Like I said a while ago he was back on MSN but I didnt talk to him.I thought to myself that my life is better now with him out of it and that I dont want to keep going in and out this relationship anymore,I want to be away from it once for all.So Im sticking with my choice to have him out and will do what it takes for that even if my fellings push me to doing otherwise.You think if I keep acting like that wanting for him will go away? Or how can I do to make it go away? Im just afraid it can push me back to him.
Thank you NML for a wonderfully informative post.
Anusha,
the yearning you feel for him will go away. I dealt with an assclown/EUM for almost two years. When I finally broke it off with him I yearned and pined for him for months, even years. I was convinced that I would never find another man that was as exicting and sexy and as masculine as he. But you know what, I was wrong. Once you really start to work on yourself (I started therapy and engaged in serious self-reflection), when you really start to love yourself and understand the underlying motivations that drive us to be with this men and really start to set boundaries to protect ourselves from these men, you’ll see that you don’t want them anymore. You won’t accept the crumbs anymore b/c you really see them as just that…crumbs. When you really like yourself, am patient with yourself and truly tired of their drama and nonsesnse, you’ll not want them. After three years of no contact, i tested myself to see if the yearning (which was really about me using my sexuality and physical attractiveness as a way to validate who I was to him) would still be there. He called me (which he continues to do from time to time, but now I never answer) and I said I wanted to see him, so we met. And you know what? The firstword that popped in my head when I saw him was “repulsive.” I was repulsed by him! There was no attraction or wanting or desire anywhere in my body for him. For the first time in years I saw him, I truly saw him for the bastard he was and crappy why he treated me. He was repulsive. I didn’t hate him. I felt nothing, absolutely nothing other than repulsion. I think my very soul finally saw his soul for the dead, lifeless hole it was and was repulsed.
Give yourself time. You need time to really heal from his mistreatment of you and from your own dysfunctional patterns of relating. Healing takes time. Be gentle with yourself and your heart, continue no contact… and trust me you will get over him.
Kissie,thank you very much for your suport and for sharing your story 🙂 I realy hope to fell like you about my exEUM someday.
Boy did that point out all the mistakes I used to make !
I love reading these now because I understand it both with my brain and with my heart, and know I am not remotely tempted to make them again.
I really see what an unavailable man looks like, that we aren’t thinking alike, and that I’m not willing to value someone who doesn’t value me. Period.
Friends with him after a break up ? – Meh ! I’d NEVER be friends with a woman who treated me with distancing or lack of interest.
Just because he has a penis doesn’t make the behavior suddenly intriguing or acceptable.
I’m the one who knows what I think and feel about myself based on how I am willing to be treated – I’d never ask him to be the mirror. Obviously, I don’t think much of his judgement if he doesn’t easily see me as valuable – if i have to convince him, I’m wasting my time. Nobody has ever convinced me THEY were great unless I already thought so on my own.
Nor have I ever loved anyone JUST because they loved me. (although I used to think that mattered – I was always wrong ) It just doesn’t work that way.
It HAS to be mutual or someone gets hurt, and I’m not willing to hurt myself anymore by being in denial, accepting crumbs or ‘settling’ for a ‘friendship’ – with someone who wants to fall in love with someone else and tell her that I just didn’t do it for him…
Thanks, NML 🙂
Anusha and Kissie…thank you for your posts and Kissie a special thanks for sharing your experience. I hope I get there someday.
This site has helped me so much…but explain ‘the disappearing act’ as it relates to friendship.
My situation – I was his friend and everything else…he constantly reaffirmed what I was to him – a solid woman, a good friend, and so on…we even said ‘we are friends before anything’. Our last conversation I questioned some behavior…we worked through it…we as he stated ‘we are fine now’…planned a visit… Then, poof.
I am not insecure (I guess, until this hit me) I do not have low self esteem. I set boundries with him. I did not have him on a pedestal…it was almost HE had me was the one with the self esteem issues…are you telling me the relationshihp was a compete SHAM because he did not even try to hold the friend card?
NML – you are the star!!! Thank you!
Bravo, Loving Annie.
Excellent article as always!
searchingwithin’s last blog post..Trust In The Power of Your Femininity
a great series!
it couldn’t come at a better time. i’m currently experiencing everything of this sort from my ex-EUM. it’s difficult for me because in about 3 months time, we are moving to opposite ends of the world essentially (right now we are teaching english in a foreign country)….and will pretty much never see each other again.
as a romantic, i think to myself “but there’s only 3 months left… then it’ll be like it was all a dream. shouldn’t we be hanging out as much as possible in the meantime, even in our big group of mutual friends, even if he’s flirting with other girls in front of me and i end up secretly missing him even though i’m cool and collected on the outside?”
when it’s written out like that, i feel like i am pathetic and i have always been fearful of being THAT kind of girl. :S
so it’s hard, and i still haven’t entirely convinced myself, but i have to realize i suppose that there won’t be any closure, any beautiful/tragic/romantic goodbye…. he’s an EUM through and through, with assclown tendencies this entire time and it’s taken me months to actually see it and do something about it.
i guess i will keep this article close at hand over the next while if i’m feeling depressed/start romaticizing again!
I was ridiculously stupid the other week..
I went to somewhere near his hometown places where we used to hang out and I got all nostelgic and sentimental and ended up texting him… how dumb I had worked for months so I wouldn’t text him anymore and hadn’t sent a word to him for 5 months and in a moment of weakness I sent one I got a reply but the one I sent back ended up being sacastic… Then later because people knew I was in town the phoned me or texted me because these people did want to spend time with me.. if only they had got in earlier.. not that I asked exEUM to meet me or anything and he had no idea where I was the only saving grace I did not ask him to meet me.. phew …
Anyway back on the wagon.. but at least I now think he will have no contact with me at all…
All so true, they are just not worth the time. It’s actually demeaning to be “friends” with a man that treated us poorly. At the end of my EUM relationship, there was always so much drama. I was usually crying or over thinking and analyzing. It was like taking a college course on how to be a doormat. My god the amount of energy I expended on this one man is stunning. Yet he always acted like he was completely removed from it all. He never got angry or upset, it was like he was watching the breakup of our relationship with detached abandon.
I won’t ever go to that place again. It’s good to really understand with both my heart and mind what it means to have self esteem and boundaries. I literally did not have any boundaries with my ex. He got away with so much and I gave him carte blanche to do it.
The best thing I ever did was to stop talking to him. I won’t take his calls. I decided that trying to explain any of this to him is a waste of time since he won’t respect any boundary I put up. There are times when he calls and I see his number on the caller ID, that I’ve been tempted to pick up and say “Look you blew it, it’s over, stop calling me.” But I know if I answer that one call it will only lead to an ego stroke for him, just by the very nature of answering him and giving that attention.
I like being in control of my life now. I like calling the shots of how I’m treated and who I want to be in my life and it doesn’t include an insensitive, selfish man who for the last six months of our relationship brought me nothing but sorrow.
wow. i loved the line – like taking a college course on being a doormat. it’s like kissie said – once you start feeling better about yourself(even if you didn’t know you were feeling bad) – you will start to see these guys for what they really are & look at them in a whole new light. i know i have. i feel like a huge weight has been lifted from my soul. i was so miserable & for what. they are distorted & i no longer want to be a part of their world – i would rather be alone.
what amazes me is how many of “them” are out there. i’m not talking about a guy that is just not into you or changes his mind – but, real game-playing assCLOWNS.
i have to tell this story. YIKES. i recently hopped on a plane to visit someone i had not seen in a year(briefly met last year) – there were flags – but i cried & blamed myself after he left last year(he came in for a weekend). after that i became involved with an assCLOWN x 10 soon after – when that ended i called this person & went to visit(just friends – right?!?!?) the night i arrived(beautiful house – my therapist – yep – have one now said it is their prop, their stage). music, lights, wine, martinis, etc. he had a bouquet of roses in the kitchen window. he took one out & gave it to me. when i went to place it back in the vase it didn’t go down all the way. he looked over & said – that rose wants to stick its head above the other roses because it thinks its more special. i can’t have one rose thinking it is better than the rest of the roses, i am going to have to beat it back down. so for the next two days we played games with these roses. in the past i wouldn’t have thought anything about it. but now – I ALMOST FELL OVER – was actually laughing inside – I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU JUST SAID THAT. i didn’t say a word.
again, NML – thanks for you insight & wit – you are really helping so many. i love your writing style. i know you have made a big difference in my life & i will be forever grateful.
Kissie, Thank you so much for sharing that story. I think I’m on about 6 months of no contact (and just the fact that I don’t really keep track any more is a good sign). There was contact twice during this time (by him showing up in two places where he might see me (way out of his neighborhood). The first time, I was really nice, but then went home determined to stay no contact, and that was when he created a new e-mail address and wrote me a big long, “you’re beautiful” letter. I wrote back “leave me alone” and blocked the new address. A few months later, he showed up at a local little restaurant where I was picking up food for myself and my son (again not near his neighborhood, but right in mine), and that time, I was about to be nice to him, but my smart side (from reading all the info here) kicked in, and I think, like you, I was able to see how pathetic this was and start to let myself see the repulsive side of him. How sad that he can still show up in my hood and not have anything new or different to say. I never thought I’d get to the point where I could see him for what he truly is. Even today, I still occassionally miss him sometimes, but finally know that even if he came crawling back with all the right words and actions on his part, I AM DONE. I would never get entwined with that again.
I like how you wrote “when you really like yourself….you’ll not want them. (I found this to be very true) Thank you.
This was a great 3 part series, and I feel so close to complete healing and extremely inspired because of reading every article and every response and watching all of you amazing women get untangled from these messy relationships to get your own, good life back.
It feels great!
Lisa,
Thank you for the kind words. I’m glad my story was helpful to you. Keep up no contact …6 mos is a long time. You go girl!!
I think about my exEUM too, not nearly as often as I used to but, every so often he pops into my mind. I wonder sometimes if he were different….but I stop myself and get back to reality and remember who he really is and how he treated me and how that made me feel. It truly is horrible how these men make us feel, how we allow them to treat us. But I have vowed I will let no man make me feel that wretched again, never again, never that low. Like NML said love is easy, not painful and hurtful. Love is kind, not cold and manipulative. Love is tender and gentle, caring and considerate, not mean or nasty or secretive and selfish. I am worthy of good love and I tell myself that everyday. I am eternally grateful to my therapist, to NML and to all you women on this site who keep strong, keep going and keep loving….ourselves first and then others. You all inspire me and keep me strong too. Thanks!
This part rings too true: “But remember, men like this recognise that you may not respect, value, care, trust, and love yourself enough because you give them the time of day” because the EUM (who was only ever a friend, not a relationship) told me there must be something “wrong” with me since I continued to be friendly toward him when, in his mind, he was treating me like dirt. He said I had a “hit me again” attitude when I thought I was being myself: kind, loving, compassionate, etc.
So… no, you can’t win! These assclowns don’t even SEE things the same way!
I have to see him once a week and when I do, I look beautiful and smile–but not at him. I am just as friendly, charming, outgoing as always— just not with him. I ignore him completely– I never even make eye contact. If I’m forced to interact with him, I rarely say a word. I can’t do “cordial and polite” yet because I’m afraid I’d slip back into my normal “loving-friendly” behavior. So I am very cold. He has no idea how often I cry, and how much it still hurts. How deceived and fooled and shit upon I feel.
I catch him looking at me some times… when I’m dressed up and having such fun… I see him pretending not to look and I HATE how knowing he looked makes me think he “wants me back.” He doesn’t. I don’t like having to admit how much I wish we could go back.
I’m sure I appear to be having the time of my life– flirting with some of my favorite men, chatting with the girls, being in the “inner circle” with management, smiling and laughing and looking pretty. But it HURTS and it’s still a strain.
I KNOW there are people who truly respect, value, care, trust, and love me…I just wish the assclown didn’t hurt so much. You know what I mean? I have so much going for me right now, yet the pain in my heart really puts a damper on all the good.
I really need to learn to focus on those people, rather than fall into a sad, teary mood about the assclown. I think it’s important to remember that it’s not that the assclown didn’t care about me.. he doesn’t care about anyone.
When I think about him leaving the group, some days I feel relief, hoping he’d go so I can finally heal. Other days the idea of never seeing him again (even though I ignore him) leaves me feeling despondent.
It’s almost like an addiction in a way. I crave what I know hurts me, and staying away from it doesn’t feel good yet. I appear to have let go, but inside I still feel emotionally entangled. Thank God he doesn’t know /it doesn’t show.
I am rereading a book that I bought when I started knowing there was something unhealthy going on in me, about the EUM I was close friends with. I bought the book, Obsessive Love, because I knew there was something wrong with my really really wanting to develop a close friendship with someone who could do the most hurtful things and also call me his best friend. The erratic push pull behavior was so foreign to me that I really did not know what to make of it.
Upon a reread of the book, the author says that rejection often causes obsessive thoughts and sometimes obsessive behavior, and for sure I became obsessive in my thoughts about him and what was going on with the odd rejections. Mercifully, I did not get as far as acting out obsessive behavior.
But I did carry a big big hope and a fantasy that surely he would come around, become somewhat normal in the giving department, and act like the good friend he claimed to be. I also hoped that his leaving his AC behaviors behind would become a foundation for a healthy and deeper relationship with him.
Now I am so sure that his rejection and distancing is a behavior trait he has learned, and I am starting to see that rejection from the push pull type did stir up odd obsession with me wanting him to stop the rejection and just give good love and care. His rejection did make me want him, but in an unhealthy way. I think he kind of enjoyed knowing he was doing this to me and it gave him a sense of power of importance.
The EUM’s that cannot make up thier minds, try to give a little, then snap back and distance a lot, the ones that do the push pull, create storms of stupid drama and that drama became an addiction to me cause I work to see the good in people, often give even the worst people some chances, and am rooting for everyone to become a well adjusted normal person, capable of the give in give and take and the good times that come with satisfying friendship. So, I learned not everyone has the goal of becoming well adjusted.
I know a lot of people, have been around a good long while, and have never experienced anything like him. His negative actions created a weird dynamic between us, with a lot of head scratching and frustration on my part. But I was a willing and ignorant player in the drama he sets up by his odd social behaviors. I wish I would have found this site years ago, so I would have figured this out a lot sooner.
I am starting to think that it is highly unlikely the man I know will ever come around. I hope he does, truly, for I would never wish his troubles or silly drama on anyone. But, it does not matter anymore since I am firm in the NC and unwilling to engage in this type of dysfunctional friendship with him.
I do kinda feel bad for the clown, because part of him wants normal loving friendship, and yet he screws it up so bad by his rejection and avoidance habits. But I just could not deal with it anymore and it is better for both him and I that I put my foot down and did NC. I really was enabling him to think his behavior was OK. And I was getting pretty down on myself too. And the amount of time I am spending understanding all this is pretty amazing.
Great post and great stories from everyone, thank you!
He said I had a “hit me again†attitude when I thought I was being myself: kind, loving, compassionate, etc.
So… no, you can’t win! These assclowns don’t even SEE things the same way!
This is the crux of the pain for me. I was taught treat people how you expect to be treated. It’s just so painful when you give love and kindness and get abuse in return. It hurts like hell. Horrid that we have to experiene this dreadfull no win situation and feel that they win because they can reject it and leave us wallowing and somehow they transfer their shit and leave us holding onto the pain of the relationship. Maybe our lesson is to learn to say no at the first sign and hang on for dear life before it spirals into the horrid experience. Well I know thats my lesson. They don’t like us, fine we don’t like them in return. Treat them as they treat you, give their shit back to them, slam the door behind yourself and run for your dear sweet life, cleanse and heal!!
xx to all.
I love that part of this post relating to “tending to their ego garden” and lazy contact by way of ridiculously stupid e-mail jokes. I have to think that these people have some kind of arrested development that causes them (and only them) to think that, “if I send her a joke and make her laugh, then all is right with the world, and that will somehow cleanse or reverse how heinously I have been treating her”. What part of inappropriate do they not understand? Why is it OK to dump someone without ceremony or notice, and think that it’s OK to forward to them these dumb*** internet jokes that their uncle or aunt sent to them? I am at a loss to understand the apparently immaturity of these “jokesters”.  At any rate…my EUM is now sending me these pathetic attempts at lazy contact about once a week now. And still, I persevere in my NC.
Nice post aphrogirl 🙂 I agree with you that rejection make us obsessive with the EUM.I think is because we are afected by rejection so when it happens we keep trying to find ways to stop or change it.I know that I do and that every time my EUM would avoid me I would just chase him even more.Is like our fight against rejection.You said that all that makes them fell a sense of power and importance and that is so true,I think more they know how much we care and are afected by them more they fell it.That is why Im trying my best to not show my EUM that I still care for him in any way because I know that is what they are after,like NML said many times their relationship with us is all about them not about us.They fell good about themselves trought our love(or whatever else it is) for them.
I will say that I agree 100% that you CANNOT stay friends with these ac’s. I wrote two very strong posts on this site last month, May, (Getting back with your ex when the reasons for the break up haven’t changed). I was strong and deep into my NC…….then three weeks ago I began to respond to the constant texts initially I was fine, still strong and in charge. I even met up with him, for a few hours to say what I had to say and listen to him tell me some crap. I was doing fine, then last Monday for some stupid reason I gave him an audience.
He spoke at length about how his self esteem issues caused him to act the way he did…(he is still married and seeing other people as well). I would love to say that I ran a mile, but alas I did not. I listened for two hours, then told him we should spend….. here goes….. some intimate time together. Yes I became a sacrificial lamb. Anyway he subtly, no it wasn t subtle, after I called him to ask him if we were getting together he told me no and reminded me that when he was trying to contact me all those times I ignored him. (I became frantic).
On Thursday I asked him a favor he told me out right NO. Plus he was preparing for a series of weekend events, and then proceeded to give me a lecture, (I am ashamed to admit all of this…:-) but it may help someone else.)
On Friday morning I called (note I, me) called him he said I was acting strange the previous night and he did not know what was wrong with me, I told him to stop talking he told me he had to go. I then called him back and left a vmail laced with profanitites, (words that I dont usually use in my normal daily vocabularly). I am not proud. I was angry at myself for falling sucker to HIS crap. If truth be told a part of me hates him, hates him for his selfishness, cruelty etc.
Needless to say I have had to be reminded once again something I ALREADY knew, reminded in a painful way, that leopards do not change their spots. In effect I have set my self back eons. Can’t be friends with these ac’s. I kick myself and ask “why did I listen?” I do not know about anyone else, but for me, its going to take more than 6 weeks of NC to truly heal forgive and move past the hurts. I know with him it will always be about him. Despite what he said/says about loving me and all sorts of foolishness, it’s not about me.
Though I am somewhat sad now, I’m a sucker for punishment, but he’s going to get his just rewards and desserts (not from me, but the law of karma says what goes around comes around).
NML keep the site going, this is actually my therapy as I do not have anyone to talk to about this, but the fact that I can share my experience is a blessing.
@Silenced Sister: you are correct. They never change. They are little boys locked into a man’s body. I am sorry that you got sucked back in on the promise of a reunification. He very well can have self-esteem issues. It is also fairly apparent that he has deep-seated emotional and mental issues. This whole notion of him dating others while married is totally egocentric and attention-getting.
I know that you are now set back in your NC timetable, but it is time to heal from this onslaught of emotional abuse. Please do not contact this individual again, and take all necessary affirmative actions to ensure that he cannot contact you. Otherwise, you will allow this seriously off-kilter person to wrestle you away from your calm and rational reality every time that you bow to his narcissistic attempts to rope you back in.
Finally, I agree with your statements regarding karma. The only downside is that we cannot engineer when and where that will happen, and we may never know the shape or form it may take. Yet, I remain confident that all of the negative energy they cast upon others will, one day, be visited upon them.
We are all here sturggling with the fallout of being involved with various versions of the boy-man- clown, but I think they get their karmic return daily, as all their bizarre hurtful behavior probably does not make them feel that good at the end of their day either. That is, if they give it much thought…
However, being emotionally stunted, they avoid facing up to their bad boy selves, thus do not see a reason to do the adult job of working to understand and change their shoddy behavior and ensuing part in thier troubled relationships.
I found it best to say goodbye and retain the hope the EUM will transcend his issues, not in the hopes of reuniting with Mr New and Improved, but because I think his karma plays out everyday in the soulless place he finds himself in.
Its up to us to not engage and get caught up in the shabby version of love or friendship or whatever it is they offer. This also goes for any adults who are emotionally unavailable.
One valuable thing I learned here is how to pay attention and spot the sneaky tactics I am vulnerable to. Pretty much falling for a confused needy guy who wants, which triggers me to give too much. Of course, he cannot offer anything in return. Wishing and wanting it to be good, and then thinking I could actually have some effect on that was another big mistake I have learned about here.
I am confident I will never going there again. Seems there are two common AC themes here…the sneaky confused push pull types…these are the ones I really need to use my intuition with early on to spot and detach from. Then there are blatant no good ones who, theoretically, should not even be able to get the time of day from us.
Either type, there is plenty of good info to be learned here about them and our part in the bad drama that is created by engaging with them. As always, thanks to MNL for getting the dialog going, giving us an opportunity to work through this and thanks to all who share their insights here.
Thank you thank you. Even though I am making some of the same mistakes (believing these guys’ bullsh*t in its different shapes and colors, then seeing the same old lack of action on their part)- this site has helped me recognize things sooner. The latest EUM did the bizarre friend request (said he wanted to slow things down because he didn’t know what he wanted) and I tried that for awhile, everything on HIS terms, and it was extremely frustrating, but I thought “well, maybe this undefined thing is okay, at least we can chill and have a ;good time now and then”, – so I slept with him again (my initiating; I can’t control myself around him), and lo and behold, I end up wanting more…wanting someone who actually CARES about me. And it’s not worth trying to keep these guys in our lives because they will consistently disappoint, even when we try to keep expectations low. I can’t just shut off my caring for him, so I have to cut him out so I can move on. It’s so hard, but has to be done; its pretty clear I will be a ‘fallback girl’ otherwise, and in that case, having him in my life isn’t worth the self-esteem meat-grinder. I’ve had to go through agony/loneliness of ‘breaking up’ (and facing that he isn’t there for me) like 3-4 times already. Why not just be reallly done. ugghgh. Thanks again for the great post!
Aphrogirl,
Do you think they are able to acknowledge their behavior as being “bizarre?” Why I ask this question is b/c my ex told me he had repeatedly cheated on his ex-wife during their marriage-justified it b/c she had rejected him- three-years following the divorce she asked for a reconciliation which he rejected, his thinking for her return is that she must not have been able to find a better guy- We all know that she came back b/c she hadn’t moved on and has little self-esteem.
My personal belief is that these guys are borderline sociopath and don’t care how or who their behavior effects, that’s why they are on this endless cycle of abuse.
Aphrogirl, I really like the description “sneaky confused push pull types” as I hadn’t encountered this before until recently. I wonder if my own confusion in life lately is somehow ‘attracting’ these guys; that or my low self-esteem, a monkey on my back I am really getting tired of.
Hi Silenced Sister,
You have written ”my story”. I too was involved with a MM. He was a real shit. He had another woman on the side (so to speak). We were both out of town girls. Mostly we texted/emailed occasionally phoned. BUT there was the sex. Seemed it always came back to that.
The no-contact would last a while … meanwhile I’d get constant texts, messages, pleas….finally, when I’d give in and talk to him. WHAM, not interested. He’s gonna be with the other woman or he’s got plans for the weekend,,whatever. I told him I couldn’t deal with another woman (besides his wife)…..he still tried to convince me that it was ok…that he was worth abandoning my good sense for. Mind you, I’d already abandoned my good sense when I started seeing a married man. But he was a high school sweetheart. I was convinced that he’d finally come to his senses and really wanted me. Eventhough he broke my heart more than once in my teenaged years..I thought he’d changed. Well, they do not.
Hang in there Silenced Sister. I’m hoping one day I’ll (we’ll) be able to look back on this as a great learning lesson. Now I have had no contact for 2 months and the thought of being with him almost nauseas me…when I think of how he slept with the other woman and probably his wife (though of course he denied that) I really do get sick. I confess to ranting too…cussing him out (Sooo not like me) and having him put me in my place. But I was so hurt. Like there was one giant hole where my heart used to be. Stay busy and time will carry you (and me) to a better place.
What a load of f@#@@ shit these guys are!
Blessings! Stay strong.
Gayle
Well everyone is different, that ex sounds like its all about playing, blaming, winning. If you think of love in that light I guess to him its not bizarre, just how he plays the game. And hey, we all know if you play you might get hurt.( sarcasm) I guess its a version of love that is all some people will let themselves know, that is way to shallow for me.
Is that border-sociopathic ? There are degrees of anything. If they are hurtful in al aspects of life the label would fit. There were a few times I was know the EUM was deliberately trying to hurt me and that felt narcissistic and cruel, for sure. Border-sociopathic? Maybe not across the board, but when it comes to love, yes I’d say many of these guys who cheat all the time are sort of sociopathic lovers.
The EUM did have a very needy side that really wanted my love and acceptance, on his terms, without giving much of anything in return of course. That side of him did understand empathy as it related to him, occasionally I got a fleeting glimpse he had a teeny bit of empathy for me. But his other side…. it is all about him, completely, and its dark and and as he gets older that side is getting more powerful.
I tried to be a friend, to give him some of what he wanted so badly from me, without getting too involved, but I really let myself be hurt by engaging in a one sided relationship and had to walk away.
Thats why I hope he can beat it, the alternative is dismal for him and anyone he comes in contact with. I think he actually knows this enough that he does stick to himself and get involved with very very few people.
Reading these posts and comments have made me realize something important: HE IS NOT UNIQUE! He’s just a textbook case, nothing special, nothing wonderful. He’s a run-of-the-mill, garden variety assclown. His “struggles with relationships” don’t make him a scared, wounded soul who needs love and understanding– they make him a big jerk.
I was just one of many in his long long line of discarded women. So I wasn’t unique either.
Silenced Sister…..Your post was so real and moving. I’ve been were you are right now, having a long period of NC and then suddenly for no reason decided to take his call. Of course he proved to me once again why we can’t ever be friends, that he’s not my friend and never was.
Moving on from an EUM relationship is similar to breaking an addiction. We become addicted to these men and their drama. Just when we think we’re over them they come back with stupid voice mails, IMs or texts. They seem to know just when to strike.
Hopefully you’re feeling a little better today. I know that each break of NC sets us back but time is a great healer. It may take several bouts of breaking NC before we can finally stick to it but it does happen. The day comes when we can look at these men for what they are and not what we hope for them to be.
I’m several months into NC after breaking it a few times and learning those lessons. He still calls me but I ignore him. I think I’m finally over him because I don’t have that longing anymore, thank god. It’s been a very long road.
Thanks for sharing your experience. It’ s amazing how much pain and sorrow these men can cause. Yet through it all we can come out of this much stronger and wiser women. I know my self esteem is higher, I understand the need for boundaries in a relationship and that loving myself first is more important then seeking approval from a man
Well ladies. Someone left a card on my car. They tucked it neatly under the windshield wiper. It was a long love card (like a Hallmark) card, basically said I still love you, think of you every day, I want to hug and kiss you, etc.
It must have happened after I came home last night as I came home late. I was doing the windows on my car this afternoon when I saw it. The person who put it on my car, put my name on the outside envelope, but didn’t sign it so I have NO idea who it is.
When I read it, I felt a clunk in my chest. I don’t know how else to describe it.
All these names and scenarios went through my head, who is it, why, etc. Maddening. I may never know. All I know is that that action is inherently selfish. Whoever did it is too cowardly to face me or who knows.
I’ve been obsessing about it all day.
Janet’s last blog post..Behind on Taxes
The very sad thing is how valid this post is. I have a friend who has spent the better part of her life waiting for him to wake up to her. The Him changes from time to time but the pattern never does. I can’t seem to get her to get it.
Hello All
I do generally believe that you can not stay friends with these men you have to step out of their game and that is all it is to most of them a game!
I stepped out of the game and changed my number 2 months ago. I have since found out that my ex EUM has got back with his ex of 2 years ago who he had been to prison for as she had a restraining order against him! Oh yes it getts better! They had a shop together and when she took him to court over breaching the restraining order she had a 52 page statement of all the times he had made contact breached it! He done something nasty to her dog, he burnt her garden shed down, he put his penis through her letterbox, he smashed her car windows!!!
Well the shop has now gone bankrupt and she has nothing now except a house that he had gave her £20,000 deposit for. He tried to take her to court to fight for this money back but never got anywhere. So this last week he has been wining and dining her!! After all this time and all the water under the bridge??
He also has another woman (shag buddy) on the go who insists on getting her mobile phone out everytime she see’s me socialising (such a very sad woman) who is still in the game. This woman knows I have been out with himbefore her and also he used me whilst trying to get with her. I feel for her really as I am glad I know all the background all the while she will still be in contact with this assclown without knowing any of his goings on with him and his ex.
I can only conclude he must have always loved this ex who he had the shop with he was in a relatioship with her for 4 years. Even though she got a restraining order against him! He stalked her, he went to prison on and off for best part of last year for her. I stupidly stayed with him through all this and went to visit him in prison! I feel very used but relieved I got out when I did. I also feel very stupid and thats the thing that is hardest to come to terms with.
I was in the same pub as my ex EUM was in a couple of Fridays ago talking/ flirting with a guy and he came over and threw 2 punches at the guy. Thankfully he never hurt him just frigtened him off as he ran from the pub. my ex EUM never said a word to me so it must have been a control thing nothing to do with jelousy???? I don’t know whats is going on in his mind anymore.
What I do think is if this ex is stupid enough to take him back after all the work law enforcement and probabtion service have put into helping her get away from him! she must be mad or thinks he has money again?? I don’t know she may have not moved on herself but what I do know it is time for me to move on.
Your thoughts??
The Cat
@The Cat
This post is so disturbing, because I am affraid for you. If I were you I wouldn’t be worrying about why the ex took him back, who he is with now or anything else. You’ve started taking steps to detach and remove yourself from this guy but now your goal would be to start working on yourself so that you stop thinking and concerning yourself with him.
This EUM is dangerous, he has gone to jail, he has burnt his ex’s property, harmed her pet, and you’re wondering why his ex is doing this or that, and what is going on in his mind.
If you haven’t already download NML’s book, that’s a good place as any to get real with yourself because this is not a man you or anyone else should be involved with. He’s got serious issues, it’s toxic, abusive and harmful.
The cat, your xEUM sounds very creepy and dangerous! So glad you stepped out of that game although in your case I wouldn´t want to call it a game! It (he) sounds far too seriously deranged for that.
People like that create trouble wherever they go and they only drag you down with them. Please stick to NC! Goodluck!
TJ – i felt EXACTLY the same way. they are not unique & we are/were not unique in our reactions to them. when i found this site & also with the help of a really funny guy therapist i learned so much about boderline personality disorder/narcissism.
my big hang up was actually believing they have a problem & it wasn’t me. the more you read this wonderful site you realize, WOW – there is something really wrong with these guys. it makes me feel so much better. however, and i need clarification on this every so often – because my EUM is now with someone else. THEY ARE GOING TO TREAT THE NEXT WOMAN JUST THE SAME.
I don’t know how many times this guy would make plans with me or we would be having a perfectly fun day & then he would he either cancel or just have to go home. no warning – just gone. Weirdo-rama. i can kind of laugh about it now, but at the time extremely painful – i would cry, beg, etc to no avail. i am glad he is gone even though sometimes when i think about what he has done it “hits” me really hard. anyway, NC is really the only way & even though i didn’t get the choice(therapist said he will eventually contact) – the EUM told me when he left – we went out to dinner the night before – he was a complete tease – told me i was the best thing that happened to him, rubbing my feet under the table(took off his shoes), watched me walk to my door when the night was over as he whistled & said things from his car(he is a 48 year old man). last thing he said to me(because of course, i was crying) – “we will see each other again. if i get lonely in a couple months can i call you.” he had also said a week earlier – “i know you would never block my calls.” THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING & THEY ARE SICK.
he also said he doesn’t love this woman & he would rather be with me but….he can’t. WTF. sorry…i digress.
i really enjoy reading others stories – for those of you doing the NC – i am proud of you. it is one of the hardest things you will have to do, but, it says you deserve more, as all of us do. don’t settle for crumbs. i feel like a weight has been lifted of me since he has moved – no more texts, calls, stupidity. i only wish i was the one that had initiated it. i tried a couple times while he was in the same city – but, then i was blamed for being selfish, cruel, etc.
strenght & love to all of you. thanks again NML for this site!
You think that EUM thinks that love is sex? I mean that they think that just because they are sexualy atracted to somebody that they love that person? When I asked my ex if he was over me already he said “No,if I was over you I wouldnt be sending you those kind of texts”,meaning the sexual texts he used to send me.But to me being sexualy atracted to somebody doesnt necessarely means that you love that person,so I dont think you can use that to decide if you still love somebody or not.Love is way more than just sex.Anyway you think that for the EUM maybe isnt?
Ausha,
I believe that most EUM’s no nothing about love. Sex is just sex, it’s a physical release for them, something for them to let off steam, relax a little bit and give them an ego stroke. The problem, as I see it, is that WE think sex is love. We women become convinced that because this man can make us feel so wonderful and sexy that he must love us b/c we love how he makes us feel when we have sex with them. It is us projecting our feelings onto him. The question is how do you feel after you have sex with an EUM? Usually, i’ve felt empty, used up, almost dirty. After sex, my EUM would, after about 10 mintues of relaxing in my bed, get up, wash up, get dressed and leave. And no matter how I begged and pleaded for him to stay with me for the night he never did. Not once in the two years we saw each other. Never. I then would not hear from him for a week or so. I thought that I could keep him by having sex with him. In a way sex is the only time that we think we have these men all to ourselves, so we make sex so wonderful, so exciting, so intense, so good to convince ourseleves that something this good can’t be bad, something this intense must be love, the things he whispered in my ear must be true b/c he’s saying this during sex adn since I’m so open and vulnerable, so is he (that’s us projecting again). We convince ourselves that sex is love, becuse we have nothing else in the relationship with these men to call love. Take sex out of the equation and look to see if there is any emotional intimacy or connection. Usually there isn’t. Take sex out of the picture and these men have nothing to offer a woman, other than more drama, more games, and more heartache. Generally when they say they want to be friends, take sex out of the picture and they don’t want to be friends anymore. Sex is a form of power and control with these men, it has nothing to do with you or how you feel. Sexual gratification, like everything else with these men is about them and their needs only.
Wow Kissie your comment makes so much sense. I tried/almost begged him to continue to sleep with me after he cut it off but he wouldnt. He cut things off cause he said i was getting to serious and he couldnt give me what I wanted (a relationship) its like I crave his sex because it was so good and since the sex stopped, he hasnt put any effort into staying friends with me.
I think guys are pretty simple, they either care or they dont and i guess by him not texting me he just doesnt care. Would that be correct? He says he does care about me and in fact i have said we shouldnt be friends cause its not fair to me but i still think if he cared and didnt use me he would text once in awhile just to say hi but I guess not.
I cant stop thinking about him (like 1000 times a day) i could still cry about it and when i hear his name and i often do (mututal friends) and they tell me they saw him out having a good time etc, i feel sick to my stomach – does anyone have any advise on how to stop thinking about them?!?! I went to counseling and it didnt help. My friends dont know about him cause I have a bf and he had a gf so i cheated on my bf so i dont have anyone to talk to about it…its driving me crazy inside…
Can someone offer some good advice??? Thanks everyone – this site is awesome but i dont know how to take the advice always. I want to so badly text him but I dont know what I would say
@Sad
I can empathize with what you are going through with the inability to stop thinking about the EUM. I don’t have any really good advice, but two posts on here by NML helped me start to refocus the energy I was spending on him back to myself. The two posts I’m speaking of is the one on Boundaries and the one on Stopping Negative Self Talk.
I thought about him endlessly, it was driving me crazy. I even wore a rubber band on my wrist and gave it a “snap” every time he popped into my head to redirect myself and my energy elsewhere. It didn’t feel good, but it helped me get my thoughts back to what I should be doing. If I was at my job, then I got busy with my work; if I was in the car and a song came on the radio which reminded me of him, I turned the channel to “talk radio”; if I was at home I gave myself a “snap” and got busy with something. I cleaned cupboards, every nook and cranny of my place to stay busy there, worked out more, just got up and did something. If I were with friends and his name came up, or I trailed off mentally thinking about him I forced myself to get up go to the bathroom and regroup. I started turning my cell phone off at night so that I didn’t wait or wonder if he would text me, or call me “sometime”.
It’s agonizing, it’s lonely, and your hurting… and no one to talk with. All I can say is that after I started focusing more energy on me, or other things (my job, working out, took an art class) I started to improve and even if I had to fake I was happy, or less miserable I did because it helped me stay focused on me. Which is where I should have been even before I met the Assclown. But I thought I was there, I didn’t realize how far off the mark I was until he stepped into my life.
It does get better, but it doesn’t get better overnight. There’s no quick fix to obsessing and addictive behavior all you can do is just try to do things to stop the thoughts and memories. My counselor told me to grieve the loss, and there are 5 steps to grief. She told me to step through all 5.
But NC is the best medicine, and you will start to feel better the longer you remove yourself from his drama and toxic behavior.
@Kissie – good analogy of the sex being a form of power and control. I couldn’t agree more – for EUM’s sex is a release mine even verbally shared that with me on more than one occasion. But I wasn’t listening…I was projecting.
Anusha-
The so-called EUM friend readily admitted that he has never loved any woman. He says he knows lust, he knows wanting to have sex, he knows “need” (i.e. doesn’t like being alone) but he does not know what love is. He admits to needing an emotional damaged woman to “complete” him and actually resents and ultimately discards healthy, loving women. He says he finds normal women boring and thrives on the deceit and crumbs a woman JUST LIKE HIM provides.
He admits that he finds confident, balanced, sexy women very appealing (lust) but really resents them for who they are. He will pursue them because they’re sexy, but ditch them without a word if they show him any real interest.
He says he knows he hurts women and leaves them confused when he simply chooses to ignore them rather than end it.
I thought I was excluded from all his BS because I was only a friend, not a romance but he treated me exactly the same. He was unable to accept, much less relate to a loving, kind friend. He ignored me -rather than communicate- the same way he did his “love interests” then said *I* had a problem for not “taking the hint” !!!
So not only can you not be friends after a romance ends, these people can’t even be friends AT ALL.. Because friendship requires feelings: caring, respect, kindness, etc. The EUM is nothing but an empty shell.
It’s so easy to feel sorry for them, to want to “be there” for them, to want to help them get better, etc. etc. etc. But it’s not what these types really want. My “friend” wants, desires, pursues and lusts after emotionally sick, damaged women…..and their needs are what drive him away. He thinks he wants a healthy, normal woman, but her emotional balance is what drives him away.
You can’t win.
Kissie,I know what you mean.My ex would give too much importance to sex,sometimes is all he would talk about for days.He wouldnt even ask how Im and go straight to that like if that is all he cared about.Once we were texting and I said I had to go when we had just started to talk about sex and he said “Now that is getting interesting?” and we had been texting about our days for about 1 hour before!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean talking about my day or how Im isnt interesting? And not to mention he not wanting to be friends anymore once I cuted the sex like I already told here.It just felt that is all he cared about.And once I took it out there was nothing left,no emotional intimacy like you said.Cant they just get that a relationship is way more than that? Couples dont spend all the time they are together doing/talking about sex like it seemed that he wanted our relationship to be.Cant they get that is absurd like we can? Thanks for your answer too TJ 🙂
Sad June,
I think the advice you were given about reading NML’s former posts is good advice. Heed it… it will help you. We women who get invloved with EUMs have low self esteem, we prefer to live in lala land with princes on white horses and castles in the sky, and we hang all our hopes and dreams on the potential taht he’ll be that prince. We all do the obsessing thing because we fundamentally believe that something must be wrong with us for these EUMs not to want us, so we obsess about him and the what ifs, and coulda, should, woulda, we just know that if we give him one more try he’ll finally see us for the wonderful women we are. We don’t accept rejection well for some reason. We want to fix the situation, we want to fix him. But we can’t. We can only “fix” ourselves.
If you really want to get better you will. Realize that you and all these women on this site have a kind of illness. We need help to heal and healing takes time. But YOU must WANT to be healed. Try therapy again, write out positive, self-affirming statements and read them to yourself out loud until YOU actually believe them, figure out what YOU want, what YOU like, what makes YOU happy. All the energy you use thinking about him put some of it in loving YOU. Most of all be patient with yourself…and don’t text him. you’re only setting your self up for me rejection, don’t do that to youself. Haven’t you felt enough pain and rejection?
ugh, i just realized that all the thinking, working to understand…
” what the hell was that alll about with the EUM”…is keeping me emotionally attached to him.
This site is a wonderful place to discover what is going on when you in addiction stage, all the horrid consequences of dealing with EUM’s friends, lovers, exes…It is invaluable for introducing the concept of NC and some of our reasons for wearing the blinders for far too long with the EUM.
This site is invaluable for getting you out of the crazymaking EUM storm, and for grieving with others in the same position. It is a godsend to hear other stories so similar. But, today I realized that for me checking in here and writing and reading has become a way of staying connected to him and the pain he gave me. And I want out, totally 100% out, of the awful emo connection with him.
So where else is there to go ? I am going to work on a few things I have been meaning to do to get healthier..meditation, preparing healthy food, etc…I am going to force myself to spend my time with my healthy friends, my healthy work and my art., and work to let go and leave far behind the entire EUM experience, including this really great and helpful site.
My best to all of you, and one day I hope to write a really sincere update about how I am entirely at peace with the pain of the whole EUM experience.
Don’t stay friends with the EUM, don’t stay enemies with the EUM, I am telling myself it was something awful in this world that I never knew of before. Like eating something really bad that makes you so sick you always remember that you never want to go near it again.
Blessings, all.
Aphrogirl certainly has a point. I, too, have spent many hours figuring him out. I have spent hundreds of dollars on books, journaled thousands of pages, and read tens of thousands of pages in books, and on blogs.
I have him figured out, but I’m still stumped as to why and how he got under my radar. I do not have self-esteem issues – in the sense of a relationship – I never did. I was the prize. I am the prize.
What I have figured out about me is that I am hypertolerant of really shitty behavior. That does come from my religious background and my mother’s belief that if you give people enough chances they will eventually do the right thing. Well, they might, but I can no longer hold my breath hoping that they do. That is why the NC was so valuable for me. Some say that the NC is “ignoring” the issue. Maybe. Maybe not. What it does do, is keep me from the addiction.
I am not ready to drop off of sites like this, nor am I ready to quit reading and searching. I have found that I do discover more about me as I read other womens’ stories. Maybe Aprhogirl is right. Maybe staying on these sites keeps us connected to the AC.
I find each of our stories to be fascinating. The continuum of the various experiences is surely interesting. God, this is the hardest thing that I have ever gone through. The pain of three major surgeries cannot even compare to the pain that my involvement with an EUM/AC has brought me.
TJ
“It’s so easy to feel sorry for them, to want to “be there†for them, to want to help them get better, etc. etc. etc”.
I don’t feel sorry for them at all. I remember how I felt after being involved with one of these men, and I can certainly say I was not in a very good place. You cannot help someone if they do not want to be helped, plus it it their responsibility to get help, not ours.
“It’s so easy to feel sorry for them, to want to “be there†for them, to want to help them get better, etc. etc. etcâ€.
I don’t feel sorry for them either – not a one of them, no matter how sad their story, its not an excuse for behaving badly. Thought I was done with EUM and could spot them a mile away. Not so. For the past month, I was seeing a widower who seemed to be “normal” a “good guy,” emotionally available. He said all the right things, did all the right things, treated me respectfully, didn’t try and bed me straight away, seemed to be a man with character and integrity. Well, let me tell you, this weekend I saw that he wasn’t any different from the rest and I found it difficult to feel sorry for him. He wears his widowerhood as some sort of excuse for his hot and cold behavior. He and his wife were separated 2 years before her death and she has been dead almost two years. We had a great night out Friday night and, then, the poor poor me, I’m a broken man, I’ll never love again, I thought I was ready to date but I’m not started. Listening to him wallowing in what appeared to be self pity, I said no more – can’t deal with another EUM. Ain’t happening…told him I am NOT a grief counselor and told him I didn’t want to be friends with him, either, for the same reason. What did he do? He got angry with me! Then, lo and behold, what do I find…he has been active on the online dating site on which we met in the last 3 days and on another online dating site I am on in the last 24 hours. Yeah, he’s real broken and not ready to date. Glad I wasn’t suckered in this time and trusted my gut to not try and fix him or nurse him through his “grief.”
Angelina,
I’m sorry to say this, but the fact that you’re “hyper-tolerant of really shitty behavior” and” have spent many hours figuring him out. I have spent hundreds of dollars on books, journaled thousands of pages, and read tens of thousands of pages in books, and on blogs” says there is a problem with self-esteem. We wouldn’t be putting so much energy into these emotionally unavailable men if their weren’t something going on with us, we would have moved on long ago. It’s no longer important to understand the ex but understand that there is something going on within that has allowed us to be in these miserable relationships.
Judy,
Good for you!! Love the “grief counselor” line!
Really enjoying this post :0
Gayle, I think you are right on! it starts with them and then because of our research and our looking under every rock to find the answers to something so out of our expectations for ouselves what we finally find is ourselves, it must be part of the healing process to take the focus off them and put it back on us.
And I think Aphrogirl is in a great place, that’s really letting go. I will miss her though, she is so wise and has helped me so much.
Onward and upward, with strength and new self resolve.
peace and healing to all
xx De
Thanks betteroffwithouthim and truthhurts for your replies I know deep down I need to forget but spent another sleepless night last night thinking about him and him getting back with his ex!
Sad I know but I just can’t help it I feel bad and I think this is just what happens with these men. This is how you end up.I have had nice men who treat me well and respect me and I don’t want to know them. I realise now that I need to work on myself on why I choose this type of man for myself. I am currently on anti-depressents over it all and trying to work him out. But I don’t think he can be worked out and that is what drives us women insane about these EUM and AC. We have to stop trying to work out why they did this or why they did that because in reality they probably arn’t giving us a second thought or most likely onto their next VICTIM!
This is a man who insulted me in front of my friends ( called me a fat cow), isolated me from my family, caused trouble for me with my friends, stood me up numerous times, use to only come around mine late at night, used texting as a primary source of communication, rang me to pick him up and I had to drop him off at his mothers (he lives with her), was texting and sleeping with numerous women behind my back, sent me a texting informing me my birthday card was at his mothers (I mean please he couldn’t even bring it round)?, stalked his ex whilst I was with him, use to make me pay for meals / takeaways, NEED I GO ON????
Now some of you may be sat reading this thinking why the hell did she put up with all that?? Truth is I didn’t I use to finish it but then when he made contact I couldn’t help myself in going back. Deep down I know this wasn’t normal health behaviour it was abuse but we keep accepting it. When I read stories on hear women have had worse treatment than me but it boils down to the same they DISRESPECT YOU.
I have numerous self help book and there is two I recommend how to break your addiction to a person and also women who love too much. There is a section in Women who love too much called Dying for love and it’s like reading about what will happen to myself if I go on like this.
I am going on holiday to Spain on Thursday as I think a break will do me good. Before I met him EUM I used to go the gym, clean my house, have friends around for tea. Now I can bearly go the shops I feel like my life is on hold.
One think I know is that I will get through this either way I will have the last laugh. I believe in Karma and what goes around comes right back around to bite you on the A**e.
Love your post NML keep em coming
The Cat,
strength to you, you are free now, you lucked out, he could still be treating you like crap!….. take a break, get healthy!! and for Goodness sake don’t hook up with a Spanish EUM!! :), they are worse than the devil himself!!
Go on Holiday for you, forget men for awhile. Have fun.
Judu June
I am sooo proud of you!!! You stood up for yourself and told that EUM where to go….YES!!! Dosen’t it feel GREAT !!! Because you’re always going to meet up with these men. I think for women like us who attract EUMs the universe likes to present them to us like a test to see if we really are setting boundaries, if we are really loving ourselves enough to say “hell no” to these men. Good for you.. I can’t tell you how happy I am for you that you resisted this clown. Keep up the good work you inspire us all!
Thanks for this wonderful set of articles! I feel so embarassed, rejected and ashamed – I contacted him three months after dumping him, and it was to seek validation, as even though I dumped him, I felt rejected because he was still in love with his ex while I was with him. No he’s stopped contact, while borrowing some of my personality traits for his own dating profile (why?!), and I feel worthless all over again. I’ve also realised that I’m a complete commitmentphobe – I say that I want a relationship, but I push and pull. Or maybe it’s just that I never felt secure with him? I don’t know. Either way, I’m embarassed about seeking validation (not friendship!) How I lie to myself!
Great and timely set of articles.
I made the huge mistake and thinking I was friends with my ex husband.
Men really aren’t interested in being just friends with women.
I think my good heart, naiveness, and thinking the best about people made me fail to see what was really going on when it was so obvious to those around me what really was.
I thought my ex husband and I were friends because we could have a civil conversation on the phone, he let me stay in his spare room while I was moving to another pace, he would pick me up at the airport at any hour.
All things that a friend would do.
I guess I forgot about the rotten things he had done after our divorce. Really rotten things.
It all came to a head last week when I called him to chat and mentioned that I had gotten married a couple weeks ago. I didn’t think it was good to mention it back then as he had just found out his cancer came back and he was terminal.
When I mentioned I had gotten married, he said he wished me well but he didn’t want to speak to me anymore and he hung up on me and that was that.
Later when I explained this to a couple of different female friends, they both said the same thing; that he wanted me back and thought I was going to come back and nurse him until he died.
He really wasn’t interested in friendship at all. It was all self serving and ego stroke for him.
His son is moving out soon and his daughter doesn’t really speak to him much.
He made his own bed by ruining his health all those years. He was extremely cruel and abusive to us for years. Now he’s all sad because he is alone and dying. He did it to himself.
I must say that this is the only site in the universe that is very very informative,thankyou thankyou for all this info
Great series. Thanks. 🙂
OMG. I’ve been hitting this site now for about 3 months and finally had the nerve to get rid of EUM last Saturday at 6am! Ran a race that morning and haven’t looked back from running away! NC for 3 days and it has been tough, but I KNOW it’s the right thing because of this site. The worst part is that I was just another link in his chain of women he used. He tried to convince me otherwise, but like TJ said, I’m not unique and that is a hard pill to swallow. But it is the truth and that is what I’m trying to face. Even a great gal like me (smart as hell yadda yadda yadda) got used.
So friends with the EUM. I currently have a friendship with an old ex EUM and I’m nearly to the place where I can cut him out too. This guy fits the profile of more the emotionally distant/afraid type, doesn’t use women (wait, did I just write that? – yes he does- he uses me for an ego boost!). Okay he doesn’t use women sexually. Too uptight and rigid. But, we’ve been friends (and get this, exEUM told me to call him!) off and on over the years. And now I’m starting to get it. We are each others fallback. The validation is mutual, and there is very little real living friendship – no expectations.
I wrote this and posted it on my wall so I can look at it everytime I want to initiate contact or be friends “expectations are how we show love for ourselves and for others”. Even in friendship. “commitment liberates us to show deep and meaningful love to those that earn it”. Avoiding expectations and commitment (me or them) is avoiding love. Anyone else make this realization?
I’m done avoiding love with jerks that use me. And, I’m done using them for validation. I’m better than that. Thanks NML and all wonderful women here. If it wasn’t for you, I would still be waiting around for HIM to change instead of changing myself. Peace be with you all!
It’s a wonderful site, very awakening for people like me, who somehow blinded and looking for a validation from someone whom I thought was good enough to give me that attention. Luckily, it’s not really a deep relationship (internet, exchanging messages) just for 2 months, although we met, instant connection on both sides, but after did not hear from him for a month, then, came back telling me how deeply he missed me, then I let him come back, then give me this hot and cold attitude, been to this site woke me up and decided not to continue, give him the ultimatum, he response but I drop him just like that. That’s makes me feel really really good. Thanks again for all these wonderful people who submitted their experiences, it’s really an eye opening!!
Fantastic set of advice. I’ve finally had the courage to walk away from my EUM, after two and a half years of turmoil and confusion.
However we do share mutual friends and have to be in the same circles from time to time, historically in my previous vain attempts to walk from the who dire relationship, this is a situation where he would normally snare me again.
A week ago I knew we were going to have to be at the same party, seven weeks after cutting ties, I was petrified, I took a good friend not in that circle of friends as back up, just incase I wavered at any point, and I played it brilliantly, however I did find myself unable to even do the pleasantries of being polite to him, for which I promised myself before I went I would be polite in his company because it would make me look like I still cared if I didn’t at least smile and say Hi. However I surprising found myself with the feeling I had absolutley nothing to say to him, so didn’t say anything, not even hello.
The evening was a great success I had fun with friends I was genuinely enjoying myself, I didn’t stop laghing all night, basically because for the first time in a long time I felt free of his shackles. He did have a couple of attempts to muscle in where I was circulating, I tactfully made sure I didn’t give him chance to speak, and he, may I add strangely for him he slipped out of the party early without saying goodbye to anyone, when he was contacted to see where he had gone I heard he left because he wasn’t feeling well. To myself and everyone else he showed no signs of illness? Ok he may have been ill? But something is telling me otherwise, and I am taking solice in the fact that he couldn’t deal with the changed dynamics between us, don’t get me wrong not disillusioned in anyway that he is upset and will come running to me declaring undying love, even if he did I’d recognise instantly why he was doing it and wouldn’t be suckered in. I genuinely believe he couldn’t deal with the fact of the realisation that he was no longer going to get his ego stroke.
Ladies I am sharing this because I have read Mr Unavailable and The Fallback Girl, it has been my bible in the past couple of months and has got me through some of my darkest hours, however ultimatly it gave me the strengh to get to here with my EUM, and I used to think I would go insane at the thought I would never beable to get over him, but one thing I am learning fast is it really isn’t him, it’s me where the problem lies, and I have been hiding from my own issues by repeatedly martyring myself to the EU realtionships.
This site has helped me alot.
I made a guide paper and hang it up so in case I might fall back I look at the key phrases and I think “hell no!”
I believe my ex is for sure EMU, all the things I read here I can apply to myself, it is amazing how many women fall for this!
I fell in love with MM, got pregnant, he became emotionally distant.
didn’t think I could do this alone so had ab…. his wife knows about me.
despite him saying he hated me for letting his wife know, slowly he made contact again that me misses me, calling me in the middle of the night (silly me picking up) telling me what a great person I am blablabla, but with all the “talks” he NEVER asked sincerely how I am doing, if I needed something, if I needed help, he never asked about the pregnancy(which he still doesn not know is ended)
I thought to explain him all just to be nice(like maybe he feels better knowing I am not pregnant anymore) but then I think when did he ever showed he cared? so why should I start now?
It has been so hard, I think I have a connection with him due to almost having his baby but on the other side what future is there…..
I asked if you had 1 question for me what would it be? Can we stay friends?
I have to admit I miss our time together but with all that had happened I have so much anger and resentment I don’t know if I can handle that.
Does his childhood have some influence/growing up without mother, was raised by family…..
Can you stay friends if one of you has moved to a different country and you definately cannot physically see them? It is somehow tempting to keep the AC as a friend. Maybe to ease the transition from breaking up with him untill I start to date someone else? Am I just fooling myself?
In a word, yes. As in yes you are fooling yourself. If someone is truly an AC, they add little or no value to your life and are in fact lifesuckers taking what they need, why do you want to be friends with someone who has mistreated you? As many a woman (and man) knows, distance and not being able to physically see someone don’t prevent you from being emotionally connected to them if you are not doing the work to work your way through the breakup. Get over him before you involve yourself with someone else – you’ll either end up with another AC or make someone else’s life very difficult.
When I read this I feel like I can relate so much to everything that’s said. But at the same time, my ex-boyfriend was not ill-intentioned. When we spent time together, we connected wholeheartedly and he was really good to me. It was the time we spent NOT together, which was the majority of the time, that he was distant. He didn’t think it was necessary to talk everyday and would rely on texting for most of our communication. One time I got fired from my job and the first thing I did was call him. He comforted me for about 10 minutes but then didn’t call me for the next few days! I had to call him to see if we were going to spend Friday night together and he texted back saying “I can’t, it’s my friends birthday. Can you believe I’ve been friends with this guy for 15 years?” or some shit like that. I felt so abandoned. So right now we are broken up and I have followed the no contact rule. After a month of not talking to him, he texts me basically calling me cruel for ending all contact after we had been so close with each other. He basically asked me how I could just end all contact with someone that I had been so close to for so long…implying that I’m a cruel person. I want to ask him, “Don’t you think it was cruel to put someone you’re so close with last on your priority list? Don’t you think its cruel to make her wait all the time, always saying “Maybe, i’ll let you know later” when she asks to see you that night?” But at the same time I’m confused because we really were close and I wonder if I am being cruel. Err see what this guy does to me??
Oh yeah, one thing I want to say to anyone reading. If you here reading this site, chances are your boyfriend or mate or whoever is EMU! Otherwise, you probably wouldn’t bother coming here trying to find answers.
Well, this is by far my favorite post because it hits me today where I am today. I have just decided to go No Contact for a second time with my ex, who wants to be friends and keeps calling me. Today I did email him to tell him that since we’re not gonna be dating, and we’re not gonna be seeing each other, we should just say goodbye for a while. Wouldn’t have to be forever (last time it was 9 months…) just until “this too, shall pass…” It was short and sweet and now, unbeknownst to him, I shall go No Contact. I will start feeling better tomorrow… no, to tell you the truth, I feel quite lighter NOW!
Wish me luck!