Many of the issues we have with our self-esteem or why we stay in a dubious relationship or why we struggle to move past something, are tied into where we feel that we’ve been dismissed, knocked back, or turned down as if we’re not ‘up to standard’. The problem is though, it’s actually us that makes the so-called rejection far bigger than what it may actually be by rejecting ourselves through the act of making a judgement about us based on a perspective gained from a shady experience or just from flat out dodgy thinking.
We make things about us when if we rein our egos in and look at what we’re truly upset about instead of just going “I am rejected” and “I’m not good enough”, we can learn something about the person and the situation.
If you read my last post on Getting Stuck On ‘Connection’ & Why I’m Working On Letting Go (Again), you’ll know that ‘technically’ I’m dealing with rejection or at least it would have been if I operated with my old thinking of “I’m not good enough for my father to try” and “I’m not good enough for my father to be around” as if something about me scared him into being the original Mr Unavailable in my life.
While doing my daily scribbling in my notebook, I don’t know what prompted me but I wrote “Reasons I could feel rejected” and started the following list:
1. Always made himself out to be regretful about us not being in our lives yet managed to ‘create’ a mystery half-sister…. that he didn’t inform me about until five minutes before he sprung her on me at a christening.
2. He just doesn’t try. He feels OK with disappointing me but will kow-tow to others to the point of it being painfully obvious. Note: my post When Someone Thinks That It’s Okay To Keep Disappointing You…But Not Others. Er, No It’s Not is actually inspired by my 35 years of being considered in such admiration and eager for his attention and his love that I’ll always let it slide by
3. He just doesn’t try. He avoided speaking to a relative about comments made to my mother about us (his children) and claimed that if they said it, it would have been for good reasons to protect ‘the family’ which actually meant him, siblings, parents…
4. He has used us numerous times and disappointed. Note that when I say ‘us’, I mean my now husband and I where he has really mucked us around often to feather his own nest or to avoid disappointing others, which we put a stop to a few years back.
5. He’s stopped making an effort with his grandchildren. (My youngest Nia who has att-i-tude pretends she doesn’t know him when she does see him which admittedly is extremely funny).
6. He’s scarily disloyal. While insisting that he’s loyal.
7. The sense of entitlement and lack of pride surrounding me getting married. Note this caused an incredible amount of stress and upset.
8. He has never truly apologised for anything. He apologises and then seals it off with an excuse.
I was about to write #9 and plough on with my list, when it came to me and I amended the title of my list to:
“Reasons I could feel rejected – but none of these things have anything to do with me“.
All of this stuff and more says more about him and not really anything about me. Writing out your own list can help you to see where you’re disappointed and where that disappointment has come from and to make a clear distinction between that and rejection which is not the same thing. You can also make a clear distinction between you and the other person.
With some people you think “OK, they’ve used up all of their disappointment chips. I don’t think they could surprise me” and then whoomp there it is. Here’s the hilarious thing – I actually figured this disappointment wouldn’t happen because all of the other disappointments would preempt the situation!
Every day I hear from people who struggle to get past a rejection because they’ve made what someone else was or did (or failed to) all about them.
It. Is. Not. About. You.
Is the rejection really about your value as a person? NO. The two things are entirely unrelated.
I should point out as well – I was a child when all of this started and after blaming myself for a long time, I know that I am not to blame. That’s ridiculous. If you’re blaming you for your own parents, you need to admit the ridiculousness of blaming yourself into your evidence and overturn your conviction. You.Were.A.Child. They didn’t act on your ‘worth’; they acted on their own issues. Don’t take away their responsibilities.
When people don’t meet your expectations, it might be (if this is an adult relationship), be because those expectations had a shaky (or non-existent) foundation but ultimately, people are motivated by their own thought process which includes their own fears, beliefs, attitudes, baggage etc. It’s not about you being a failure as a person or not being good enough to change them; they opt into or out of what suits them at the time. They have their own pattern of thinking and behaviour.
Their own feelings of shame can also prevent them from stepping outside of their comfort zone. They may feel that it’s too much water under the bridge – better to have a clean slate with someone else who will blow smoke up their bum or never ask questions than to have to face the product or the consequences of their own ‘mismanagement’. Or they just know who the hell they are – someone who disappoints you. They predict in advance that they’re not going to live up to your expectations and if you’ve made your feelings and expectations clear, it may leave them with nowhere to go.
You might think “If they loved me they’d change” and feel rejected but really, the fact that they haven’t changed is about their own beliefs and values. Where is the rejection of you? Who they are doesn’t work for you but they may be happy getting by on that. That’s still not about you. They have their own agenda which isn’t in sync with yours.
People don’t change because of your feelings and expectations for them.
Sure, it’d be handy, but better that they change due to their own feelings and expectations. Unfortunately as you may have experienced yourself, there are a number of things that can get in the way changing and sometimes it can appear easier to take the path of least resistance. If that’s what they’re doing, that’s still not about you.
Focusing on rejection causes you to feel that you’ve had them take away something that you could have had, as if you being up to standard and being ‘motivating’ enough would have created a different outcome. This is just a lie that hurts you and is self-rejection. What I can assure you of is that you’re not such a disappointment of a person that you ‘make’ people mistreat you. When you can step back enough to see why this has really happened (and not put it all on you), you can lift the weight of it off you and move forward.
Your thoughts?
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People don’t change because of your feelings and expectations for them.
Yup this is something I have really struggled to accept. I have been guilty of thinking/expecting others to change their behaviour because of me. I always blamed myself when they didn’t.I wasn’t enough.
I think this is due to me having often shape shifted and turned myself into whatever I think the other person wanted/so they wouldn’t leave – because I liked them so much – that I automatically assumed vice versa, that if they like me then they would change. In my brain it became an accepted law, that liking = will change. Not liking = no change. When in fact that was just me and my screwed up way of looking at things.
This is what has helped me in the last couple of days , i agonised over the ow , what was it about her and not me ? Should i be more like her why wasn’t i good enough and then STOP . Its not about me i’m perfectly good enough , i’m okay its because id had sussed him and he knew it , he knew im to smart and could see him for what he was , i don’t want to be like the ow buying his bull , i feel sorry for her . Its him he has no concept of truth , what did i expect seriously , so i hold my hand up to that , but i can see that and will make a change , he wont , and its him with the problems what a empty soul he must have .i reject him and i took control 🙂
Tired,
There’s a pin on this site that says something to the effect: “Don’t be sad when you see your ex with their new partner. Our parents always taught us to give our toys to the less fortunate.” 🙂
Great post. I was just having this conversation yesterday with a friend. It’s nice to see those same thoughts and confirmed in this post!
Thank you, Natalie!
Four years ago I went into full blown Post traumatic stress disorder when THE GUY (major jerk) tossed me over for a much younger woman who happened to be a physician who is 16 years younger. He married her two years ago.
He married a doctor and she married a patient. EWWWW!!!!!
It took major work to deal with is situation. Baggage Reclaim was a major tool in my recovery.
Surprise..surprise. The bloke emailed me this weekend …going down memory lane. I have no idea of the status of his marriage…all I know is that I am embarassed over the drama I put myself through for this major narcisstic mess.
I have moved on and he is talking about our former relationship like it happened last week.
I have learned when a man does not want me in his life…it can only be because he is not appropriate. It has nothing to do with my value.
And when he changes his mind….I don’t change my mine. I don’t ride the merry go round of messy minds!
Thank you all for getting me through the last four years…and this guy is not getting a second thought! I AM HEALTHY!!!!
Good for you!
It’s amazing how these people think they can just stroll into your life. A guy I was involved with got in touch recently – to tell me he is dissatisfied in his relationship. I ignored, the best way of telling him to jog on!
I used to feel so much rejection from him and my most recent relationship. Then I got the therapy and self-esteem I so desperately needed and the difference is incredible.
I’m so pleased to hear you’re in that place too!
Valley.. love what you said here:
“I have learned when a man does not want me in his life…it can only be because he is not appropriate. It has nothing to do with my value. And when he changes his mind….I don’t change my mine. I don’t ride the merry go round of messy minds!”
Woo hooo! That is great!
Valleyforgelady,
This really cheered me up!
Perhaps I have a cruel sense of humour… and I’m in THAT kind of mood today. But I can’t help imagining the look on Mrs Mega-Spesh ‘I Steal Other Women’s Men’ Physician’s face if she were to read the email your exAssclown sent you. Better still, if she snuck into his emailbox just snooping around to find out what gift he’s ordered for her lately or something trite like that. I see her expression as twisted, bitter, firey red, eyes screwed up with tears pricking the corners of the lids, bawling heavily like a toddler, with strands of clear spit linking her upper and lower teeth.
A lovely picture. Life-affirming. Because (a) she deserves to suffer all the karmic ugliness that she once casually inflicted on you; and (b) it underlines what Natalie has told us all again and again. This is what assclowns DO. EU/ACs are EU/ACs to EVERYONE they ever have a relationship with. Not just to you on an individual basis. And they never change. They never, ever change.
Hi, Natalie. I’m sorry you’ve had to go – and our still going through – this painful experience.
I doubt I’m telling you anything new when I say that such painful and traumatic interactions with our parents often create a template for romantic relationships where we play out a bad relationship with a parent again and again in the form of a lover, hoping against hope that this time we will receive the love and respect we longed for as a child. Doctors and spouses Harville Hendrix and Helen Hunt write extensively about this issue in their “Imago Relationship Therapy” books.
If you haven’t already, you might enjoy checking them out.
Best!
Lawrence
I drew up my own list. The key points related both to my mother, and the EUMs in my life:
Lack of affection
Lack of admiration
Lack of interest in my life
Lack of loyalty
Lack of empathy
Lack of generosity
Lack of honesty
Lack of integrity
I can see how they have flawed personalities. With most of these key points I have seen them demonstrate the flipside to others, but not me, which is why it’s so easy to take it personally.
So what makes the difference? Because I have wanted more from them than they wanted to give? Because I gave more from the outset which gave them power over me which they chose to exploit? No it’s not *about* me, but it is *to* me. There’s no getting away from the fact that my lack of self esteem allowed them to get away with treating me badly. And once that dynamic is in place it’s very hard to break.
Crazybaby
Love your list. For a long time I used to believe that the points you described related to my character so downplayed my skills ability and did not trust myself as a result. My mother was/is verbally and physically and my dad was in my view weak as he never stepped up or protected me.
Over the years and with much support and self love salve I have come to realise and accept that I have sound integrity and can and do make healthy choices which has included accepted that it’s definatly not about me.
meant to add toxic after my mother is verbally and physically.
Sophia your parents sound exactly the same as mine. I idealised my father, but it’s only when I look back now that I realise how weak he was in not standing up for me or protecting me. He once said to me “your mum needs to hear from you that she was a good mother” I replied “I’m sorry – I can’t do that”. He didn’t get annoyed or question my reply, and it made me realise he *did* know what she was like, and still wanted me to collude to keep the ‘peace’. At what price, eh? It’s infuriating that abusive people get away with bad behaviour because no-one has the guts to stand up to them.
Crazybaby
That list perfectly sums up exactly what was missing in the person I was involved with. And you’re right, if that’s what is going on you can’t turn it around, the options are to hang around getting more of the same, or remove yourself entirely and use your energy more productivly. The problem for some of us (me!) is imagining we’ve got to, that we can, make them change their mind about us, and their behaviour.
Yes I feel the same compulsion to try and resolve things – not just because I want a happier relationship with that person, but also I feel like I need to learn how to deal with anyone who demonstrates these character flaws so that when I encounter them through work, family, friendships, and relationships I have my Mental Survival Kit to help me know how to handle them. Sadly all I’ve come up with is to calmly explain to them what affect their behaviour has on me, and then they just kick off or pull away. It hurts when you haven’t done anything wrong, and when it happens with a workmate or family member, it creates an awful atmosphere, and you wonder whether it would have been better to just mentally log ‘you’re an A-hole’ and minimise your contact with them.
I have concluded that some of my boundary issues with guys are related to my dads past behaviour. My mum is a whole other can of worms. When I was very young he was convicted of indecent exposure to minors (teenage girls). Suspended sentence and sex offenders register. My mother was horrified, this made their temperamental (domestic violence) relationship worse. Broke up and the situation went from bad to worse. After foster care and a custody battle my dad got custody. YES READ THAT AGAIN. A registered sex offender (all be it a ‘minor’ offence) gained custody. He proceeded to continue his behaviour to one of my friends at age 11/12 and on the internet (which I ‘found’). I kept this hidden for a long time.
Eventually I confronted him aged 23, he tried to lie, but admitted eventually and I stated my feelings about him and it. I thought this would suffice, but I found myself cutting him out of my life for 6 months last year and contemplating our relationship. Which in general is a close one (despite this stuff). Eventually (after reading my social services records). I spoke to him and he completely let it all out. He admitted that he was not ready to look after me, that he was in denial about his issues and that perhaps I should not have been placed in his care. He apologised for the harm it caused me and assures me that he has been receiving psychological help for the last few years. I do get a genuine vibe from him about this and decided to take his word. Because as a dad we have a good relationship but if he is ‘still’ doing this behaviour then I will have to cut him out of my life until he sorts himself out. Its a tricky situation,in trusting him, but he knows that I will follow through if it happens. He only has me and his wife and I think he now realises the seriousness.
Apologies for the long-ness of this. I just wanted to share my experience as I have had ‘daddy issues’ fo sure!
I have related this to my trust issues – I think I have had trouble trusting in the long term. Is why I have ‘soiled my oats’. My recent abortion has really given me an insight into consequences and I feel a new amount of strength gained. Ive discussed my un ease with my sexual behaviour before here!
x
Wow NK don’t even know where to begin. Not sure why you would even want to have a relationship with him. Dad or no dad he’s a sex offender PERIOD and no good can come of it. They don’t change.
You say if you find out he is still doing his behavior you will cut him out of your life till he sorts himself out and he knows you’ll follow through. What does he know if he knows you’ll be back at some point.
I don’t know you or anything about you except what I’ve just read so I have limited knowledge but I’m sorry to say it seems he like most sex offenders know which buttons to push, what they need to say/do in order to get exactly what they want and in your case a relationship with his daughter but only on their terms.
Sorry to be so blunt and seemily uncaring about you but I’m afraid for you. Stay strong, keep your eyes open and trust your gut.
Hi MaryC,
I used to feel like you do in your comment. Is why I cut him out of my life.
I do genuinely believe he is/has stopped this behaviour. Its hard to explain. I know that if he did this behaviour again and I found out then I’d be gone.
It is very hard that apart from this issue we are very close. He is respectful and caring. I’ve researched exhibitionism extensively and it can be a pre curser to other offences so i know the issues. Trust me i’ve had these thoughts in my ind for a long time. But when he apologised to me, i felt a weight lift.
Thankyou! once again. This article is the answer to a question about my daughters and their father, whom continously dissapoints them. Your wise Natalie beyond your years. feel blessed to have found BR x
This all makes sense, yet I can’t help feeling a twinge (well, all right, sometimes more than a twinge) of rejection still. Logically, it makes sense but there’s still a little nugget of worry deep down that makes me really doubt if I’m good enough (I’m thinking of a particular person, in this case). I suppose, just having gotten divorced, and also having been through a bad experience last year has left me feeling not too good about myself. I have to work on myself, but I still wonder what it is about me – maybe I’m the one who’s just not that special. Sometimes it’s how I feel.
Amy,
I agree with you. I understand that being disappointed by someone and being rejected by them are two different things. Many times, a person can behave in a disappointing way without really going so far as rejecting.
However, rejection does exist. It can’t always be brushed off as a disappointment. Rejection is something that someone consciously does to you when they break up with you or abandon you. Yes it is ‘about them’, their mental state, their problems, their inabilities, etc. But, like drunk drivers, they collide with innocent parties near to them and they cause a lot of damage. It’s just not possible for us all to protect ourselves against these bastard ’emotional drunk drivers’ and the havoc that ensues.
Amy, Grizelda and anyone else on this thread, this issue you’re specifically referring to here begs the question of:
Is it rejection if a man who is creeping around behind his wife’s back doesn’t start the affair properly or leave?
Gosh Natalie I needed a couple hours to contemplate your question.
My view is yes, an MM can reject. He can reject just the same as a ‘free n single’ guy can. Is that getting to what you’re asking?
I think what I’m saying is that rejection sometimes isn’t wholly a matter for interpretation. If someone tells you outright to go away and that they don’t ever want to see you again — whatever the window-dressing reason-ettes they give for the severing of the relationship — that’s a pretty unequivocal rejection. No imagination required.
In the case of an MM, he can lead the OW on, make subtle promises, and hell even make overt declarations, and when he decides he’s had enough, his skid marks heading into the sunset look exactly the same as anyone else’s might. Because the OW did ‘have him’ in a couple ways, or several ways, or many ways — particularly if it was a long-term thing.
I suppose to me it seems the same conundrum as it hurting just as much to be abandoned/rejected by your de-facto father who was your mother’s long term boyfriend, and to be abandoned/rejected by your ‘legitimate’ biological father who was married to your mother. Just because the de-facto dad didn’t officially ‘belong’ to you, etc, does it make his rejection not a real rejection?
I agree though that it’s extraordinarily unhelpful and self-harming for us to interpret a set of disappointments as rejection automatically. My father hasn’t sent me a Christmas or birthday card in over 15 years. He has called me exactly twice in the last 22 years (not since 1996). I could interpret this as a rejection, but I don’t, for the reasons that you say. It is just a huge disappointment, amongst dozens of others, that says everything about him and nothing about me.
Griselda
I think the point about the MM is that they were never looking for a relationship at all, whatever declarations may have been made. A single man could also have the same frame of mind, but the difference is that if he is married it is out there, in your face, from the beginning. There is no vacancy in his life; the position is filled; so it really isn’t about you. He only ever wanted a bit of sex, fun, romance, ego stroking and fantasy as a hobby. The one I was involved with started to blow very cold, almost disappeared, when his wife kicked him out. Truth is he had never seen me as a main relationship, I was cast as the FBG and always would be.
My point is, how can you be rejected, when you apply for a job that doesn’t exist?
If you’re a mistress, you think you’ve got a foothold that might lead on to better things, but it cannot. (in most cases)because they have no teal intention of leaving the wife for anyone, although they may toy with the fantasy from time to time.
SPOT ON MYMBLE. What you describe was precisely my experience as a former OW for two years. I didn’t realize I had twisted myself into a pretzel in applying for a job that never existed. Was I rejected? Now I don’t think so. Was I disappointed, heartbroken, angry…you bet. You summed my situation up perfectly:
“If you’re a mistress, you think you’ve got a foothold that might lead on to better things, but it cannot”. End of for me. If you want to see skid marks, wait ’till the wife finds out about the affair. I think he left ruts in my driveway as he peeled out. End of fantasy because that’s all it was for both of us and then poof the fantasy was gone. Can I be rejected by a fantasy? Or was I extremely disappointed, angry, sad, and furious because my fantasy didn’t come to fruition…you bet! In my case, I can easily relate everything I just said to the situation with the exMM to the situation with my father. Same guy, different package. The moral to my story: Although I didn’t get to choose my father, I do get to choose different guys. That’s a big step for me. Thank you Natalie and BR. I’m moving in the direction of understanding that a fantasy situation with a guy or a fantasy situation with a parent isn’t a rejection when the fantasy bubble bursts. It’s a fantasy that didn’t work out.
Runnergirl,
Loved this: “Can I be rejected by a fantasy? Or was I extremely disappointed, angry, sad, and furious because my fantasy didn’t come to fruition…you bet!”
I have stupidly felt rejected in a way, since the exMM did not even end things with his original OW, let alone his wife, while telling me I was the love of his life. It was all smoke and mirrors, a fantasy. I am not “less than” because he did not choose me over his W or OOW. It was not a rejection, just a “fantasy that didn’t work out”, as you said. Thanks for framing it in those terms – very helpful 🙂 Let’s exercise our right to choose healthy guys for partners, because we can!
Hi Learner,
Natalie makes a great distinction between disappointment and rejection starting at page 143 of her Dreamer book. That section really helped me to understand the difference between disappointment and rejection and how disappointment can become rejection. It’s not my insight, it is Natalie’s and I just applied to my situation. Check out that section. It is fabulous and really helped me in letting go of the fantasy and disappointment surrounding the exMM as well as with the original EUM, my father! Keep up the great work Learner. We get to choose now!
Mymble and Runnergirl,
I do agree with you! But I think it brings us back to expectations overall.
I never expected my father to turn around and start being available or kind or taking notice of me in any way. I simply expect him to continue to be himself. And he does that very well indeed. It’s disappointing because my expectations are so low, but then I don’t see it as a rejection. It’s more of an accord.
I expected, and wanted, the exMM/EU to stay with me in our arrangement. He did for five years, and then he left me. That’s rejection. Did I want the number one spot as wife number two? Not necessarily. My back isn’t large enough to take all the knives that would have been launched my way by wife number one, family of wife number one, hurt and angry children, vindictive friends, embarrassed siblings and families of siblings, shocked parents-in-law… not a foregone conclusion that I was prepping myself for that kind of role. Nevertheless, rejection. Because what was was no longer.
I think it’s important to associate realistic expectations with the ‘vacancy’ to be filled. In the case of a father, all his children want to fill their alloted ‘vacancy’ with him. But what they think their father is capable of giving them in terms of time and emotional investment, and what’s really on the table, are so often two completely different things. Yes it is all about the father’s failures/inabilites if he doesn’t meet expectations — but then he needs to set them realistically too in the first place so that he can meet what’s there.
I had to read your comment about five times Grizelda because that last paragraph left me feeling really uncomfortable and I’m still trying to identify why. I think it’s because whether it’s a father or a mother, your comment suggests that if one of these said the equivalent of “I am shit, so expect this and this and this”, that the issue that arises between children who are neglected or abandoned by parents is somehow different. At what point is a baby, toddler, child, etc supposed to grasp the nuances of this? “OK Dad. I know I want you to be my dad but you’ve told me that you can only really be it in name only (or whatever). I’ll just shuffle off and accept this” says the three year old. Who is he setting these expectations with? The mother? The child? When my daughters get back today, I’ll be giving them an extra big hug. *shiver*
Also, doesn’t the MM have his own needs? Yes of course it’s a rejection of the arrangement, but what if he didn’t feel like having an affair for another five years with you? What was he supposed to do? Continue so that you didn’t have to feel rejected?
I had to ask myself the same thing when I was the OW. I wanted my ex to leave because I didn’t want to feel rejected. I felt rejected by having the role of OW which I’d willingly signed up for and if he didn’t choose me I also felt rejected. In thinking about myself, not only did I pursue this malarkey with someone who was cheating and was not a good partner for me, but I was asking him to reject someone else to appease my ego and stop me from revisiting abandonment issues from my father. In turn, he couldn’t expect me to continue with the arrangement just because it suited his own life and helped him avoid other aspects of it. In the end, it wasn’t about judging him per se; I judged the situation and judged myself out of it.
Ooh I’m really falling down on what I think I’m trying to express here. I’ll take two issues one at a time.
Father (or mother). Children are so accepting of situations when they know little else. Kids who grow up with dad away on business/deployment etc most of the time are far more resilient to his absence because it’s regular and expected. They’re told ‘that’s what daddy does’ and they’re encouraged to live with it. It’s normal and they know it’s not an outright rejection, even if they’re disappointed Dad missed the school play. On the other hand, children who grow up with dad being emotionally unavailable or distant or just plain rubbish also learn, sadly, that this is regular and expected. They learn to live with it. I was one of those! Mom worked around him and so did my sister and I. What a training method for dealing with EUMs. That’s where my expectations of father have been since… well, forever. I don’t read it as rejection when he continues acting within the expectations he tacitly set since the late 1960s — it’s him, not me.
But I think, had he been available, kind and receptive throughout my life and then suddenly turned cold and distant and stopped communicating when I was, I don’t know, 25 years old say, yes I think I would put that in the rejection bucket rather than the disappointment bucket. Because it would be difficult to frame the brush-off as ‘that’s just dad being dad again’. A noted deterioration in behaviour is meaningful to the recipient. It means that ‘something happened’ and then we’re left wondering what we did, or what he did, or what the devil happened, to make him hit the reject button.
So I think the same rule probably applies to relationships with MM/EUMs etc.
Their, and our, behaviour gets normalised.
Expectations have been set out from the start, so everything from seeing each other just a few hours every ten days, to not being seen together in public, to lack of cuddly cozy affection in his EU case, is ‘situation normal’. ‘That’s just him being him and me being me.’ It’s that diet of crumbs that you think, at the time, is better than a diet of nothing at all.
Nevertheless, when he takes action and ends everything, that’s a notable change in behaviour. Hence, rejection.
But it’s at this point you got me, Natalie.
I loved your suggestion that “I felt rejected by having the role of OW… and if he didn’t choose me I also felt rejected… (and) I was asking him to reject someone else to appease my ego…” It’s not one rejection but a whole shedload of rejections all over the place. Trouble is, the rejections don’t cancel each other out, do they? They accumulate. This last one is just the latest one in a long line. Now I need to work on rejecting the rejector, and that will trump the rest.
Grizelda
“When I was a child, I talked like a child (daddy!), I thought like a child (why isn’t daddy here, why doesn’t he love me?), I reasoned like a child (I need to be good-er, smarter, more interesting). When I became a man (a woman), I put childish ways behind me (looking for love from someone who can’t give it, exhibit A: married men)”. 1 Corinthians
And as for your expectations and feelings, all your smarts, intelligence, and eloquence cannot reason them away. God (literally) knows I tried. If you expect love and you want love (which is normal and healthy), then look where it can be found. It’s not weak or unreasonable or a failure of logic to want to love and be loved. Its a failure of logic to expect it from a MM and then to see it as rejection when he couldn’t give it to you. He can’t be your husband, boyfriend or longterm partner. You’re disappointed that five years wasn’t ten. After ten would you be disappointed that it wasn’t fifteen? Cut your losses. You feel rejected not to be his mistress anymore. You could just as easily feel rejected that he didn’t respect you enough not to offer you this dubious arrangement in the first place. It’s about you only insofar as you accepted these crumbs. You rejected yourself.
“I have given my love to what is worthy of love. Is that not the kingdom and the unperishing spring?” Ursula Le Guin
I hear you Grace! Wonderful and wise.
Had he originally turned up in my life a completely free man, and then I’d learned about his dubious cheat-y past and psychopathic/narc tendencies, I would’ve run like my heels were on fire and my backside were catching. Too late for that now, I got burned.
I’m oversimplifying things, I suppose, but if a MM is terribly unhappy in his marriage but is staying in it because of a fear of losing his kids, then tells another woman whom he’s met that he really likes her, would date her in a heartbeat, etc, etc, feels conflicted, and says he is still “processing” the situation that he’s in, what is that? If he’s willing to put up with an unhappy, verbally abusive wife (his choice, of course) but pull back from the OW, what is that? I’m not explaining this very well, I know, but isn’t it a type of rejection if someone chooses one person over another? Am I mislabeling it? I’m sorry I seem so naive. I’ve taken this, my divorce and my creepy church guy experience from last year very personally. The situations in themselves have been fraught with disaster, I know, but still, no one, not even my husband, has chosen to be with me. Just sayin’, I guess…
Amy,
MMs have already made their choice. That’s the point. OW is not waiting for MM to choose her, she is waiting for him to un-choose someone else, then (maybe) choose her.
He didn’t choose someone else over you – he was with her already.
EU women tend to get themselves involved with men who have no relationship on offer then feel rejected because the offer wasn’t on the table; it never was on the table.
To get involved with an MM is like sitting down for a meal, seeing that a roast beef dinner isn’t on the menu and then feeling all begritten and perplexed because the waiter won’t bring you a roast beef dinner. Trying a restaurant with roast beef dinners on the menu would be a good start. Trouble with the MM is that he will say, ‘no, there’s no roast beef dinners here tonight, but the chef may think about adding that to the menu later’. OW, thinking either all restaurants must be like this or that there’s a great dearth of restaurants out there serving roast beef dinners, hangs about accepting a paltry plate of dry bread and gravy when it’s offered while whining for her roast beef dinner. MMs don’t do roast beef dinners. He’s eating that at home! Lol.
Fearless,
Loved your roast beef analogy. “My” waiter said he thought there may be some roast beef later, but he wasn’t sure as he couldn’t predict the future. He then got roast beef back at home, plus some spare ribs when he walked down the street to his wife’s friend’s house. Glad I finally learned to “dine and dash” thanks to all you wonderful people on BR!!!
Learner
‘cos he “couldn’t predict the future”. Sheesh! Isn’t that biggest ruse of a get out ever!
This is why we need to act according to the ‘here and now’ with these avoidant people. If he is throwing excuses at us about they can’t do a properly progressing relationship with us right here and right now (for whatever and any reason)that’s when we should know that he’s resisting and avoiding it; we should flush him right away cos ‘the future’ is never going to happen. They don’t need to be able predict the future (!); they need to be two feet in – right now.
Grizelda,
You probably won’t get this because there is a new post, but my two cents:
My shrink at 19 told me that I needed to lower expectations for my dad, if I wanted a relationship. He had put me in foster care, stolen my college fund left for me by my grandfather, and was in the process of blowing me off for lunch dates because his controlling drug addict wife was mad at me, when I called her out on using my college fund to buy oriental carpets for her car, as well as the car itself.
Now, one could say that it was unrealistic for me to expect my dad to keep a lunch date after all that, and it was odd and pathetic of me to even want one…but at that time i was a doormat because it was so damn terrifying to admit to myself that my dad did not love me as that would have meant that I was an orphan….
but I do remember clearly things; “Okay Dr S, how much lower, exactly, can I lower my expectations?” because seriously, what could lower have been then stealing from me, giving up custody of me and then being an ass to stand me up at a Denny’s?
It makes me caustically lol now, but seriously, no child should have to “adjust” their expecations to keep a relationship that primary…it is not the child’s responsibility to do that.
I get you dancingqueen —
Other adults (your doctor for example, or in most cases the custodial parent) are given the onerous task of trying to reduce children’s expectations of the errant father (or mother). Try to rein them in, because overambitious expectations only lead to greater hurt. Sadly, often times they end up excusing the errant behaviour (“that’s just dad being dad”) because they’re trying to get the child to accept brute reality and not feel so bad.
It’s not good, it’s not right.
Parents are meant to be in our life, so letting go of one of both is really huge. When a romantic relationship fails, we can move on eventually to some one else someday who meets our needs….but we can’t go find another parent who will fill that empty space where a careless parent’s love should be. I don’t feel rejected by my dad so much, but feel instead, unlucky. A dad is supposed to love their kids, it’s basic and natural. My dad’s inability to love came from inside himself. I’ve felt more rejected by romantic breakups, because it isn’t intrinsic for a lover to love me like a father should. When a parent leaves or is a poor pathetic excuse as a parent, it’s their own weakness and dysfunction. Unfortunately, we pay the price. My son would not know my dad, his grandfather if he walked up to him on the street. I hurt for my son more than myself that his grandfather (my dad) doesn’t care to know him. My son might feel unimportant and cheated out of a normal family. He did get cheated out of a grandfather. Sad, my son’s real dad never stepped up to the plate either. I raised him alone for many years. My son (he’s 26 now )never says much about these things, but he has to feel ‘deserted’. It breaks my heart. I tend to over do things for my son, to try and make up for the lack.
I don’t feel I said it right in the comment above, it sounded like I was defending bad parents. I’m not. To clarify, a parent who continually hurts us has something wrong with them inside, because it’s unnatural to hurt your own children over and over. It made it easier to let my Dad go because I knew it was something wrong with him, not me. It’s a weird void to live with, because a parent is supposed to be the one who would give their life for you. With a lover, if it doesn’t work out, we can say it wasn’t meant to be, but you can’t really say that about a parent. Letting go is hard, but sometimes we have to move on to protect ourselves and our own children. Sorry if I repeated myself, it’s a hard emotion to really get down into words. It’s a hard thing Natalie, this particular parent issue. We want them in our life, but sometimes they make it to hard or impossible without compromising our own sanity.
I have struggled with this for the last 5 months and i have taken on your advice Nat about looking at your own self and why you want someone who is Emotionally Unavailable.It made me look into my childhood of not feeling worthy.And of realising that all those issues from childhood have arisen again when my relationship of 2 years ended and he moved in with someone else almost immeadiately.Isnt it funny how you can read and read the same things and it just not click and then suddenly the heavens open and the angels sing you finally get it…I GET IT.Its not about me.And what a relief.As i write the emotions are overwhelming but its such a relief when you finally accept YOU.He was like it when i met him while i was with him and will no doubt be like it after me.It is not about me.Thank you.
Hi louise
A little saying came to mind when I read your comment, hope it helps, it helped me-
Didn’t cause it.
Can’t cure it.
Can’t control it.
It’s NOT about us- we didn’t cause it, and there’s nothing we do to change them, cos its not about us, at all.
I repeated it to myself as I disentangled from an abusive relationship, but funnily enough its worked in a lot of other situations too- including my parents, and a recent ‘interaction’ with I guess what I should call a player.
As you said- they’ll/ he’ll be doing this behaviour still, cos that’s who THEY/ HE are.
Im gonna struggle today as it his birthday , do isend a mess , he never bothered with me but ill worry that it chrw me up , na stuff it and him
Tired.DON’T YOU DARE!!!!!! You know what will happen. Think how pleased you will be with yourself tomorrow if you have managed NOT to contact him. Focus on that feeling and how good it will feel.
Aaaah Tired, please don’t!!
Come on here and send messages to us every time you get the urge to, jump up and down or something, I don’t know, but yes as Victorious says focus on how great you’ll feel 2moro when you know you resisted!
Stay strong xxx
i KNOW ..only you can make that choice NOT to call…. i KNOW how difficult it will be….. NOT to call….. i HOPE you will find strength….and i did the same thing back in march.. it only set me back…. i had gone 62 days of nc and “his birthday ” made me weak…
dont worry i haven , i keep looking at the slap round chops text my dear friend sent , if you don mind i will post my wafflings up here than text him , he bloody well did me wrong and i kicked him into touch ! thankyou girls for just being there and understanding x
Tired, if it’s his reaction you’re after, think of it this way. He’s expecting your text. When it arrives, pffft, he deletes it. But when he doesn’t get your text… he’ll be missing it.
Let the sod MISS it.
thankyou you are all a bunch of wonderful ladies and you all all giving me enormous strength from just coming on here and reading that there are lovely girls going thro same thing and we are all just being there and egging each other on , me i didnt to busy dying my hair a disatrous colour lol to even worry bout him , i doubt hell notice but yep let him miss me for ever !
I know well the urge to do seemingly unimportant things like send a B-day greeting. But when you do, your mind is on that person–did he read it? What is he feeling? Will he respond? Etc. Don’t put yourself there. IMHO
Great work valleyforgelady! Love the “merry go round of messy minds” metaphor. It’s almost like asshats get this signal every time we’ve moved forward with our lives and they just keep crawling back to see if we still care. Some don’t bother, thankfully. But others continue to bang on the door when it’s been shut.
This post really puts my situation with my ex, as well as my rebound abusive EUM in perspective. NC with both of them (incidentally beginning at the same time for both) and the end of this week I will have achieved a month’s worth of pure NC. Might not seem like much but considering my earlier relationship patterns this is a DEEP and GLORIOUS victory for me. For the first time, I don’t have the temptation to break NC. For the first time, I am following through completely. And for the first time I feel like I really am following the wise advice I am always given (and hear from my inner voice). Not only am I cherishing everything I have in life, I’ve also started volunteering again–as Natalie said, this is a powerful, enriching and AWESOME outlet for all that energy that we usually waste on douchebags. It’s so much better spent on our community and society at large! GIVE, GIVE GIVE – to yourself, to your community, to the loved ones that deserve it. Not to the ones who could never earn it, let alone give you anything in return.
I propose that we celebrate NC “anniversaries” with these narcissistic AC’s and EUM’s as much as we do Valentine’s Day and Christmas. 🙂 Treat ourselves to something every month (or year) of NC and remind ourselves how better off we are, how much more relaxed and peaceful when we realize the rejection really wasn’t about us at all. It was about him and his beliefs, needs, values, etc. And then when we come to that epiphany, we can finally reject THEM as compatible partners.
Yep, good idea- I marked every single month to the day of leaving his sorry arse by doing something nice for myself until a year had gone by; on the year anniversary I actually went on date and then went out and celebrated with friends, what a wonderful day it was!
And then I vowed to forget the date, forget him and enjoy life….aaaaah so sweet to be free!!
We have so much in common! You have brought a smile to my face! I am 5 days away from 30 days of NC! I read Nat’s website all the time and while I get a lot of great advice from her articles I also value the posts and this is the first time I felt compelled to reply. I am so happy that I have stuck this out as hard as it has been. It seems it has gotten harder the closer I get to my “goal” of a month of NC. I only hope that someday I won’t be counting the days and he will just fade from my mind. For some reason I feel that 30 days will be a break thru for me- a magic day- that things will get easier on day 31 and forward. As far as rejection- I am working on that and this article definitely helped though I am trying hard to wrap my head around the concept that it has nothing to do with me. As much as I wouldn’t wish this pain and hurt on anyone else, it is very supportive to know I am not alone. I wasn’t the only one who fell into this trap. I was told that my previous relationship (marriage) had “set me up” for the one I am getting over now.
Nat ,thanks again for your insite of pointing out the sometimes very obvious ,that for some reason I know, but still question in my mind over & over.
Its been a year now since the break-up & for the most part I am over it, made peace with it, but every once in a while I stare into dead space & go over things in my mind. It’s useless. I know he deserves not one more second of my time. I have flushed him completly from my life. I need to flush him from my mind, ugghhhhh…
Hey Natalie, I’m really sorry you had to re-experience the trauma with your father on such an important and wonderful day. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences, although it must have beyond stressful. Your insights regarding dealing with childhood issue have been extremely helpful to me. Through therapy, I realized there were childhood issues and I was repeating the pattern as an adult. Although it was difficult at the time, I’m a textbook case and rather simple in that regard. However, nobody, an in-person therapist or another author (read them all),has been so helpful in assisting me to get out of stuck and move beyond those issues. My parent’s issues simply were not about me. Even after therapy, I didn’t realize how I was still caught in the parent-child dynamic. It has helped me tremendously to make a clear distinction between me and my parents. They had their own agenda. I was struck by the section in the Dreamer book regarding the distinction between disappointment and rejection. It is a giant difference and was such a relief. Yeah, I was disappointed. I wasn’t rejected. I was a cheerleader in high school. It seemed like that if the cheerleaders would have cheered harder, we would have won. That’s just not how the game works. Cheerleaders and children aren’t responsible for what happens on the field. Cheerleaders and children can’t change the outcome. What a relief! I am truly sorry that your father had a sense of entitlement and lack of pride regarding your marriage. That is about him, not you!
Oh yeah, give your little Nia with att-i-tude an extra special little hug. Pretends she doesn’t know him…kids are cool that way. I’m betting she is your Taurus? Good for your little Nia. That vision made me laugh. Hopefully she’ll carry that forward and not recognize all EU’s in the future.
ugh I lost my message…ok starting again. “People don’t change because of your feelings and expectations for them.” Thanks NML. I really learned this tough lesson recently. BIG CLUE! The AC with whom I was entangled this summer was at first charming, rugged an earthy GOODLOOKS, bad boy with a motorcycle, ETC. After wining and dining me and then having a voracious appetite in bed I learn he is a sex addict and that he was seeing several women. He would spend a whole day or two with me and then go dark and quiet for weeks. I was baffled, sad, confused, depressed. I learned he had several women but I learned it too late after I had feelings for him. THAT’S MY FIRST LESSON! Anyway, his booty only text last week came after not seeing me for almost 2 months and after he saw me out with another man. The booty text prompted me to tell him “well we could have gone to dinner, we could have seen that show finally but instead you only think of the shag. I’m much more than a shag.” I haven’t said anything to him since then. But he has proceeded to text what HE wants even though I told him my expectations. well as NML says IT DOESN’T MATTER. The leopard doesn’t change his spots. In this case, the cockroach is still a cockroach. He doesn’t respond like a normal person. He doesn’t ask how I am or how my kids are or “yes, dinner with you would be great” NO he just sends out ugly “give me sex” messages out of the blue. I am so happy to write that he is disgusting me now. I want to tell him how sick he makes me. I am mad at myself for having let myself FEEL for this guy and spending so much energy on him — energy and time I could have spent with my kids or with someone nice. I have not responded to his ugliness. And I won’t give him that satisfaction. I thought, sure I could send him an ugly message back and stoop to his level, but I think the silence is…golden.
That’s a beautiful thing, JR. Deafening silence. None of your blood for that vampire, let him turn to dust.
It reminded me actually of a great rule for girls who are dating in normal circumstances or running fairly trouble-free relationships.
You tell him, persistently: “You want to see me? Ask me out.”
None of this ‘hanging out’ on your sofa, none of this f*ckbuddy stuff, none of this keeping you away from his friends/fun, none of this text-a-lay action.
Ok it doesn’t solve the EU/AC problem. But it is at least a frontline form of defence against spongers, users and timewasters — many of whom are EU/AC anyway!
Ah, thanks, I´ll be using that line.
I´m pretty fed up with the text-a-lays and horny IMs and whatnot. Glad I found this site, I was thinking that´s just how things are nowadays, but now I know I don´t have to put up with it!
Natalie,
Phew. A doozey of a post. So freakin’ precise, like a cut diamond.
After seeing the EUM this weekend, I was having a meltdown on the phone with my mom today, crying my eyes out. I just feel so rejected, forgotten about, unimportant, I said. Like he could just move on with his life, as if I was just a yawn that passed momentarily in and out of his life. And that hurts. And it’s exactly how I felt with my dad being absent from our lives.
When you taked about your dad acting regretful that you weren’t in his life, but then producing your half sister (I think it was), it really struck me. I’ve always gotten this half-assed, lackluster, apologetic stuff from my dad too. Like you always say, “Er….so what’s stopping you from BEING in our lives?”
Your new title for your list is so significant. You are so right when you say that they are disappointments, and not rejections of us. Puts the onus right smack where it belongs–on our fathers (or EUs).
By the way, GO NIA!! That little girl’s got SPUNK! Good. for. her.
Still struggling , its hard excepting no ones give a flying f*** that your not in their lives anymore . Its like i never exsisted , i was just there out of his boredom till hed met someone eles , and thats what hurts why oh why couldnt i see it
Another timely post Natalie. Ex EUM wants to be friends. I couldn’t possibly as I am still REELING from the rejection. Your post has given me a much needed perspective. I have also started talking to myself and trying to get my self-esteem to have a strongly worded chat to my ego. I have been rejected by both my parents. dad just left and Mum has always been emotionally distant and vociferously disappointed in me. I hadn’t realized until now, at 47, just how much this had all affected me, and how for me, rejection is just unmanageable. Time to take stock. Thanks again Natalie.
I know kick my butt i peaked at his fb and the women who told me about the ow is on saying happy birthday i love you loads wiggs and its like a punch to the gut that hes great friends with this women who spread stuff bout him but hes shut me out , he can be all pals with them but me its like ive done the wrong all because i said no ill just be friends , sorry girls but this has really knocked me back of my feet pathetic i know really pathetic
tired-
here, i’ll kick your butt. because i am getting right tired of this.
give me your hand. now step back a few paces with me. let’s look at the situation together.
WHY would it be a punch to the gut to not have the good opinion of the master of an obsequious, no-esteem-having, toadying, competitive, packed, harem? HOW could you wish for his approval, his attention? tired! he’s a JERKOFF.
and the women who told you about the OW? what was their agenda? to decrease competition within the harem? because look at them! they’re still there! and they KNOW he’s a cheater! they are kowtowing to a cheater! what does that say about them?
is that who you want to be? the girl, one of many, who kisses the ass of the conceited ass cheating harem master? is that how you see yourself?
tired, NO! of course you’ve done wrong in his mind. you’ve called him on his shit. so you’ve actually done RIGHT. you have enough self-respect to tell him no, but not quite enough to follow through.
stop it. and stop beating yourself up about it. stop looking at FB. focus on you. what is keeping you from focusing on you?!?
and i don’t want to hear another “i know, i know, pathetic” reply. you’re not that desperate. treat yourself right.
MMMM-mmmm-mmmm!!! TESTIFY, cc!!!
(Tired, my dear. Please listen to her. She says it out of love and she’s right.)
…lol….i totally did, didn’t i..
cc,
Yes, you did – and I especially appreciate this part of your testimony: “WHY would it be a punch to the gut to not have the good opinion of the master of an obsequious, no-esteem-having, toadying, competitive, packed, harem? HOW could you wish for his approval, his attention? tired! he’s a JERKOFF.”
This applies not only to Tired’s exMM, but to mine. Tired – WE are rejecting THEM now, as we should have done from the start. As someone else mentioned, we must reject the rejecters. Amen sister!
that was awesome:)!
Little girls with attitude are my no. 1 pet love. My niece used to boss us all about when she was four. I called her the tiny tyrant.
Back to the topic – for me, it was hard to accept that anyone would love me when my own parents didn’t. I still struggle with this. I’ve gone from ACs and EUMs to someone EA, and now I can’t believe that he genuinely likes me. I feel he could just swap me for someone better (well younger and more fertile) and it wouldn’t matter to him. I feel … interchangeable.
And, no, he’s not given me any reason to feel this way.
grace
(yes i’m responding to my own comment)
UPDATE: He wants to speak to me about it. Face to face (take note all of us trying to survive on texts). I guess this is what’s meant by relationship work rather than fantasizing, dreaming, future faking and catastrophizing. The irony is that he’s younger than me but handles this stuff so much better!
Right, okay, I’m not going to doom and gloom about it until we’ve spoken. I’ll doom and gloom then (just kidding. I think).
Grace, these women all said it so eloquently. Such beautiful messages. I can’t say it any better. The best to you and just…believe in you!
Grace, I hope the face to face convo went well? Dear lord, I don’t know you in person, but for goodness sake, “interchangeable”? Gracious, not a chance of that. His being younger than you doesn’t mean anything, other than he is chronologically younger. That’s it. Your phrase “fantasizing, dreaming, future faking and catastrophizing” is important. I picked up on the addition of catastrophizing. It that the flip side of fantasizing? Stop it in it’s tracks! Neither end of the spectrum from fantasizing to catastrophizing works. I’m about three to six months behind you and I’ll need to hear this back soon. There is a balance. You may copy and past. Three months must be scary. I scared of the third date!
Hi Grace
You keep it real and you keep it inspirational. Healthy friends in healthy relationships tell me that you will still be tested but that those tests are worthwhile as neither person is compromised or made to feel less than but instead keep growing together. So keep the faith.
Sophia
Thank you
I woke up this morning weeping that we would break up. He woke up thinking of all the reasons he loves me (so he says).We really can see rejection when there isn’t any.
You’re right, all the marriages I’ve witnessed over the years have had their ups and downs. Heck I even gave marital advice. Need to take some of that advice myself. It’s not going to be happy ever after and no problems. Unless its a fantasy relationship, ha.
Grace, be gentle with you and keep reining in your imagination. You have so much more contentedness when you are present focused. Stop imagining that it’s going to be over. Believe in you.
Grace, for what it’s worth, I don’t think this guy thinks you are interchangeable. And if you are, well, so is he? But we know he’s not, and likewise neither are you, but I think you need to avoid the validation seeking scenario, which has been my pitfall – think yourself big; you are worth it, to this man and to any other. You are not a prophet, don’t be the prophet of doom; in trying to prepare yourself for the worst case scenario, as you imagine it, you are talking yourself into it. Just be there, be present, stop thinking you need to run away – this guy deserves better than that; be who you are, get in there, hold on to you and your values and let the chips fall where they will.
grace-
here’s my perspective: it is amazing and heart-breaking to me that you can’t see, for the moment, how amazingly special and unique you are.
i understand, i think, what you are feeling. but i’m here to tell you you’re wrong. you are one of the least interchangeable people i’ve ever come across. and i’ve never even met you. i can’t imagine how extremely non-interchangeable you’d be in person.
darling. believe in you. the grace i know is MORE than worth believing in. and it sounds like he does to. and that is to HIS credit that he can see how wonderful you are, and how lucky he is. that affirms HIM. NOT you.
do you see? don’t cry, honey.
Grace I haven’t met you either but your qualities come shining through and I’m sure someone who does know you in person would see even more than waht we do over the internet.
I hope you find peace and remember we are not to worry about what tomorrow will bring.
Tulipa,
I second that!
Grace,
From one ass-kicker to another: stop this possible gloom-and-doom nonsense. Get your ass out of the future and back in the moment where it belongs. You’re too much of a badass to do any differently. Courage, grace!!
…Have I said “ass” enough in this post?
Grace,
You are not giving him credit if you seriously think that his being younger is a “one up” on you and, that that would contribute to you being “interchangeable” with someone. Not only have faith in you, have faith in him…right?
“When you can step back enough to see why this has really happened (and not put it all on you), you can lift the weight of it off you and move forward”.
That. Is. Fact.
And once that weight is lifted you really do realise how much baggage you were carrying….
Its okay i havent and not going to my friend text me me a very slap round the chops text and i need it . Saying stop being the victim you choose to get your dignity and pride back you walked away he didnt shut you out , he have carried on using you as he saw fit and to sto peeking , it was the text i needed x
today is day 26 AGAIN…. no contact… HOPEFULLY with PRAYERS .. exercise ( smile) and MUCH INSPIRATION FRPM READING BR POSTS.. this time i will be able to finally let go…… i want to get to the day.. when you realize … smile… and say.. wow !!! i hardly thought of “him” today…..i DO realize i am in this place because i let him and accepted his behavior…
I broke up with my emotionally abusive boyfriend a little over 4 weeks ago, after 8 years of dating and many dramatic break ups here and there. Feeling obviously rejected (after years of making excuses and living in denial) was what finally made me realize that something had to give, and I had to leave this relationship. My boyfriend would work long hours with no explanation, and if I asked, he accused me of being unsupportive of his work. When I broke up with him and told him that I felt like I was in the dark about what he was doing and did not like feel like his partner, he had the nerve to throw the blame on me and said, “I always knew you were uncomfortable with my long hours.” I said, “NO, I was uncomfortable with the way you handled it-not telling me about the changes in your new job and our life.” When he took this new job, he stopped answering my text messages and emails, and when I asked about that, he told me to stop texting or emailing him because he does not have time to read or answer them. These are one of hundreds of things he has done or said that were cruel, rejecting, and neglecting (but would be blow hot just enough to keep me hanging on in bits and pieces). I felt rejected all the time by him. He never felt like he “owed” anyone anything, or had to answer to anyone, he hated authority, he never thought the rules applied to him. He never wanted to do anything nice for me, and if he knew I liked something, he made damn sure he didn’t do it and that I’d know it. But then, he tells me he took that job because he felt like he owed his old boss for helping him. I remember feeling genuinely confused. He doesn’t feel like he has to do the basic decent things for his girlfriend (be kind, hold the door open for her, be caring, etc) but he he feels that way about his boss and the workplace that he complains about and hates so much? The last several months before we broke up, it was one rejection after another, in small ways and big. I started to feel like I was really going crazy, and it got so bad that I couldn’t even make excuses for his behavior, him, or my tears anymore. I discovered through therapy that my lack of self worth and low self esteem stems from my childhood (which I knew that already) but I didn’t know how non-existant either were by the end of my relationship. And that I had fallen into a pattern with my ex, a pattern of abandonment and rejection and fake love like from my mother. You always hear that women date men like their fathers-I never thought I could date my mother! Same way I thought, oh, my ex’s father died when he was a baby and so he didn’t have a father or role model. I kept thinking of the absence of his father and forgetting about the mother that raised him (who I discovered to be narcissistic and probably contributed to his anger and vitriol towards women).
I discovered your book, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, while searching for results and answers to so many questions I had and to calm the pain and void I had to deal with after years of flight and avoidance. Your book has tremendously helped me and reinforces my therapy. Before I broke up with my ex, I would scoff at therapy or reading books like this (now I see probably because I didn’t want to know what the truth was). Most of us are taught by our parents to intertwine their crap and baggage with ours and we just don’t know any better. I did not realize I was carrying my mother’s baggage still-she threw it onto everyone else’s back but her own because she never wanted to deal with anything. And then I took it upon myself to take on my ex’s because I thought, if you love someone, that’s what you do. And so of course I felt rejected when nothing seemed to change or improve from him. Realizing the parts that have nothing to do with me-his behavior, emotional abuse, neglect, rejection, has been liberating. Not to say that I am not accountable-I learned how my behavior and what I was willing to accept, the crumbs, b/c that’s all I knew just perfectly enhanced him and round and round we went. Learning that I can move on, work on myself, that I can heal from this is the answer I have been looking for my whole life and it has eluded me for all of it until now. This is not about just healing from the relationship with my ex, but with my mom and my childhood. I finally feel that freedom, the unlocking of the secret door I have been wondering about for 34 of 34 years of my life.
I also want to add, going back to family, my mother did things like your father. Like springing information on you and then you’re supposed to exist in this weird parallel universe of cognitive dissonance. My mother would fake apologize and then literally in the same breath brush things off with, ok, so forget it now. THis enraged me while growing up (and still does). I could never understand how a mother could not feel for her children and be genuinely sorry. My father was able to apologize for a lot of the crappy things he said and did. I realize now that I am expecting your proverbial pig ear turning into a silk purse with her. It still hurts but with age, wisdom, and finding my self security, it hurts less. And this same thing was reflected in my ex’s behavior-empty apologies or just refusal to apologize for even things that blatantly deserved an apology (being late, no show, breaking promise). He made excuses with so much spite and threw them at me, like, here TAKE IT. And I did because otherwise, I felt like I was going to be in trouble and he would leave me, and I would be all alone and abandoned again. When I was reading this rejection post, it also dawned on me that no one else in my life actively makes me feel that rejection time and time again. Why do my other friends and people in my life embrace me, appreciate me as a person, my talents, my work ethic? And why does my ex make fun of me when I am working hard, laughs at my projects, cuts me down all the time whatever I am doing at anytime? This was a red light I should have seen and it was his problem, not mine.
Hey just wanted to say I’m a simialr age, and was in an 8 yr relationship with an emotionally, financially abusive AC and I recognise the stuff you describe. 4 weeks is really early days but you are doing great to have already found this site and to be able to see your role in the dynamic. I remember being curled on the couch at that time in shock and horror…its painful, it hurts but now you know you have not rejected yourself anymore by choosing to let him go, because in these relationships that what it is- we just end up rejecting ourselves, which is so sad.
It’s been over a year now btw and while I continue to drive myself mad with some of my ways of behaving unhelpfully towards myself, I am so, so much happier its beyond words…
Love this quote: “Peace is the result of retraining your mind to process life as it is rather than as you think it should be.” ~ Wayne Dyer. Hard to do because our Daddies are supposed to be, well, Daddies. Thanks for sharing your story Natalie.
My dad has always been an expert at playing the victim when he´s hurt someone. He is so good at it, you end up feeling sorry for him when he has messed up. As long as I can remember, my mom used to fall into this trap – whenever he did something terrible, it was because of his awful childhood experiences (they were extremely awful, but there´s no need for him to take advantage of that as a grownup!).
So now I´m working at not feeling sorry for ACs and EUMs, I can clearly see that is how they get to me. Just yesterday my ex husband came over to talk, he pulled the same BS on me: that he is having such a hard time (well mainly because his car was stolen), that now he realises what he has lost, that yes he has all the freedom in the world but this comes at a price and blahblah. I think he was complaining about having lost our kids´confidence, and he was trying to blame me for that. Which is ridiculous, they have their own minds. Also, I´m extremely civilized with him, I try to treat him as a friendly acquiantance (because of the kids).
I told him he has the best of both worlds: he got to pursue a relationship with the OW and he still has access to his family whenever he wants. Furthermore, I´m the one who has always been in charge of the children, so much so that I´ve had to put my career on second place.
When we lived together, he would not budge one milimeter from his career and I always felt like a single mom even when we were married.
So really, what does he expect?
It´s only natural that our children don´t trust him much.
But it was very hard for me not to fall for his manipulations, not to feel sorry for him. I had to make a huge effort not to imagine myself in his situation. I began to doubt myself: was it my fault he left us? I even began to try to solve his problems in my mind, how twisted is that!
Luckily, I was able to stop myself in time. But it scares me how these guys can manipulate me into seeing things the complete opposite way.
Well, I´ve been connecting some dots today and I figured maybe he´s just testing the waters?
Lately he´s been pretty insistent on us four (him, me, and the kids) all going on vacation together.
And now he tells me he has made a mistake and blah.
I´m feeling like the oldest wife in the harem right now. I just wish he´d stay away, I was just beginning to enjoy my family as it is (me, the kids, our pets).
And I really don´t want to be treated like an option he can get back to when he´s bored of the single life.
I´m worried he´ll pull the “sorry me” stunt again, though. Help!
…now he realises what he has lost, that yes he has all the freedom in the world but this comes at a price and blahblah… So really, what does he expect?
He expects you, Lilia. Your feelings laid at his feet. Because he needs them to validate his actions and the (apparently regretted?) choices he made along the way. He may not be conscious of it, but his motive is if there’s some way he could get some love expressed from you, well then hey he’s not such a monster after all, right?? He’s not such a bad guy for d*cking over his family, right??
Be careful not to inadvertently underwrite his assclownishness. If he wants to make up what he lost, he knows deep down what to do. But coming to you looking for sympathy and for some support for his idiotic choices is not the way to go about it.
If everything everyone does is only about them and not about you, what is the point of trying to have a relationship anyway? I don’t mean to be contentious, but I am beginning to think what’s the use if we are all conduct our lives based on self interest.
Since I found this blog, I’ve sat on the sidelines, I’ve watched the people around me who are dating, trying to get the relationship they want. I’ve seen only blindness, even though my friends are intelligent and kind people. I see all these good people make all the mistakes which are pointed out here on this blog. I don’t know what to make of dating.
I have applied all of what I’ve learned to my friendships, which were all pretty solid to begin with. They are even better now, all this advise has made my life much more conscious, much more full of love.
But the dating thing is tough! I’ve had a few dates, but I’ve had to opt out before I get to a third date. I see all the red flags, etc, and I”m unwilling to put myself in dodgy relationship.
I haven’t given up on love, but I have given up trying to make/change/ignore/etc my way into a relationship.
As far as feeling rejected I’ve had my share, and this piece was very helpful in further letting go.
Thanks Nat!
I wanted to add:
some my friends, are baffled as to why I didn’t give the dates more of a chance. Even though I tell them about the red flags (obsessively talking about their ex,lazy communications, too boozy, just wanting sex etc…) Some of my friends seem to think I’m being “too picky”.
I try not to laugh too hard at my friends remarks since it’d only make me pee my pants!
So, yeah I’m saying even my good friends think all kinds of stupid things (as I used to as well).
Pink Panther I’ve asked myself that too – is it everyone just doing their own version of “you’re going to play this love drama according to my script”? I think that version of “self-interest” is the unhealthy one. Asking “what is in my best interest here?” is different: relationships are in our best interest, we need relationship in our lives as well as personal integrity, so it’s in our best interest to learn how to negotiate boundaries, so that we can relate without losing ourselves.
Tired – Please Do Not Contact This Knob To Say ‘Happy Birthday’ !
It is exactly what he will be expecting you to do, and when you don’t, it will throw him. Also, he probably guesses you look at his FB, so don’t ! Also, the ‘friend’ that told you about the OW does not sound like much of a friend, and just another way for him to keep tabs on you. Flush !
It was my ex ac’s birthday the other week, and I got a sorry little txt, ‘Do you know what day it is ?’ I nearly txted back, ‘Uh, Saturday?’ but that would have broken NC.
He’s more than likely to chase when you ignore him, and when and if he does, you will have the fun of ignoring him.
AW seaside gal that gave me such a laugh, “uh saturday” brilliant 🙂
Seaside Gal,
Haha! “Do you know what day it is?”. THAT is a humdinger of a pathetic display. Is your exAC about seven years old by any chance?
Seaside, and Grizelda….I had a chuckle, thanks. Yes he sounds about 7. ha ha. I actually have the same thing coming up soon — AC’s birthday in about a month from now. I wonder if he thinks sending me tons of naughty messages right now will eventually get me to come to him in person just so that he won’t be alone on his birthday. I wouldn’t put it past him.
thanks seaside girl and all the other lovely ladies that replied , i haven i kept my slap round the chops text my friend sent as a reminder . i doubt very much that hes clocked havent he has all the ego strokes he needs , this friend wasnt a friend she didnt realise i was seeing him hes a mm and she reckoned her friend was, well i later due to gut instinct knew he was . i basically called a halt or hed have carried on using me , told him to his face goodbye and hes been offish with me ever since like it was me that had done somthing bad . i madethe huge mistake of trying to stay friends (i know im a dumb ass ) and hes treating me with indifference . so i went nc its me that has to let go and not make it what it wasnt and that i had the strength to stop it reclaim my pride and dignity , i just need to keep seeing him for what he is and ill be fine x
Tired
It’s that he’s all along known that at some point you would realise he has nothing to offer, because he’s married, and you would leave. The MM even said to me “you need someone who will love you and be there for you”, because he knew he wasnt. It isn’t a surprise when you leave, it’s expected, and the only surprise to them is that it took so long for the penny to drop. In all probability the same outcome will await the new OW. Don’t feel envious of what she has got, because she has got nothing, and the outcome will be the same as it was for you. If she’s lucky it will end sooner rather than later. If she isn’t, it will go on longer, more of her life will be burned up in this utter waste of time, and she will be more hurt and damaged by the end. He isn’t staying friends with you, because he knows he has wasted your time and hurt you and he is uncomfortable about you being around, noticing what he is doing, and possibly making trouble for him because you are angry. You don’t want to keep watching him, because it will remind you of what he did to you and keep those wounds open. You will retraumatise yourself, over and over again, if you keep engaging.
This part especially hit home for me: “They predict in advance that they’re not going to live up to your expectations and if you’ve made your feelings and expectations clear, it may leave them with nowhere to go.” My Mr. Unavailable basically told me that’s why he couldn’t stay with me. For a long time I kept thinking he would regret what he’d lost and change his mind or at least apologize to let me know he cared, but I realize now that he knew all along what he was losing and that he opted out because I made my expectations clear and set boundaries and they scared him. He knew that I wouldn’t settle for what little he was willing or able to give (but the new girl is). Flipping it around and looking at it that way–rather than as me failing in some way or “losing” him to her–has helped me have faith in myself and my decisions. Thanks, Natalie, for putting into words what I guess I knew all along but couldn’t verbalize.
my UM has been on and off with his “ex” girlfriend for years. Everytime they go on a break he comes running to me telling me how sorry he is and how much he misses me. At this point i just want him to accept me so i can feel “better” than the other girl. it’s so painful and has taken such a toll on my self esteem constantly comparing myself to her. why her and not me? Even when things are good with me and him, i know he will eventually leave me and go back to her. Even as i write this i feel so pathetic and stuck but i can’t let go to the idea that one day he may change. thoughts?
micheleRG, you’re being a fallback girl for this guy. You need to resign that job pronto.
You ask ‘why her and not me?’ when perhaps what you ought to be asking is ‘why her OR me when he can have us both?’. Because he does have you both in turn, doesn’t he?
Be the grownup and stop the cycle. He doesn’t deserve that kind of benefit. Who the hell does he think he is, Casanova? My advice is, push him away when he next comes back to you and go into NC. It’ll drive him batty and it will tamp down the intensity of your feelings for him. You’ll then be in a much stronger position to negotiate terms or to walk away once and for all.
“People don’t change because of your feelings and expectations for them”.
I read somewhere that people don’t disappoint us, but our own expectations is what disappoints us. While this is so true, in my last ltr I tried not having any expectations so I wouldn’t disappoint myself. Bad mistake!! I accepted crumbs, I managed myself down & ‘took’ whatever he wanted to dish out. With him also managing me down it was tough even for a sane person. That is when I found this site. Thank you Natalie. So much to be said for flushing & no contact, even though I had figured out years ago about no contact, but love that re-enforcement. Love hearing about boundaries, as I never learned about them growing up. I always felt I had values, but looking back, no one else would figure that out because of my actions.
I loved this article, but it left me wondering about a few things. What about issues of incompatibility? Isn’t that about you? For instance, someone recently said that they wanted to date me, but would prefer to marry someone who wasn’t a divorcee (ouch, thank you very much). Isn’t that about him rejecting me since I’m a divorced woman? Similarly, what if you hurt the other person or you were too needy, etc. Isn’t that about you? I understand that parents are supposed to love their children unconditionally, but when it comes to romantic relationships, where is the line?
Laurie
It’s not rejection, it’s incompatibility. If you feel you need to improve some behaviours, theyre not rejecting you, they’re rejecting the behaviour. And if someone really does reject you, does it really matter? Especially for being divorced. I was convinced my boyfriend, who is a committed Christian, would reject me for being divorced but he wasn’t bothered. He’s not holier than thou and understands that people have a past and make mistakes. If this man you refer to doesn’t get that, you don’t want him anyway.
grace,
Thanks for the insight. The “I’m a perfect Christian and prefer a non-divorced marriage partner” guy really pissed me off. I think this is why I gravitate towards the “bad boy” type. At least I know they’ll *accept* me and not look down on me. I’d rather be with someone shady than someone holier-than-thou. Yuck. Correction: I’d rather be alone than be with either *type*.
Laurie,
I struggle with this too. When I think about men I have rejected, I did usually know why, though I didn’t tell them. It was that they were; too short; not attractive to me; boring; etc etc. It sounds sooo shallow saying that; but that was what I felt. So I feel that if they guy doesn’t want to be with me, it is because of a flaw in me, either character, appearance, age or other quality that I’m lacking. And I would like to know, I wish they would tell me, though of course they never would. My therapist said, people are a package, it isn’t one thing or another, it’s the whole person and it’s artificial to consider one aspect in isolation from another.
But still I have a feeling that there is something wrong with me, and I wish I could pinpoint what it is.
Mymble,
I hear what you’re saying. I think for me it gets back to the adage that you can’t please all of the people all of the time. This is incredibly frustrating for someone like me with perfectionist tendencies. EVERYBODY has to like me, love me, and want to be my best friend/lover. But they don’t and they aren’t. And that’s life. I don’t have to take it personally. And I think that’s the main point in processing any perceived rejection.
This is such a lousy metaphor, but it works for me. I prefer Darjeeling to Earl Grey. Does it mean Earl Grey is nasty, horrible, and undrinkable? Does it mean that Darjeeling is the best tea ever? Nope. It’s my own personal (subjective) preference. I’m not God, and my rejection or acceptance of anyone or anything has really no universal weight or says anything about that particular object or person. Likewise, someone’s rejection or acceptance of me doesn’t hold any kind of objective message about me: you are REJECTIONABLE. I think that takes a little bit of the sting out of rejection.
I like this website and I feel like there is some solid information on here for sure.
I’m trying to get a grasp on this whole rejection thing and maybe my opinion is a little biased or swayed because I am a male.
I understand after reading this particular post and the example given about Natalie and her father how that specific rejection is more about him. I get that.
But sometimes the rejection IS about you (the person getting rejected) is it not?
For instance and I know this may seem superficial but sometimes you meet someone who is just not good looking enough for you. Yes it does not mean that person is of any less “value” or “worth” but THEY are not good looking enough for you to remain attracted to them on a physical level. So in essence you are rejecting them.
Now I know how everyone says looks are more important to guys then girls and that may be true. I have rejected girls because physically the attraction was not there. And I have talked to many girls who have rejected guys for the same reasons.
I guess I’m just wondering if the best way to go about all this relationship/breaking up/rejection stuff is to just accept that you may not be good enough for someone, there may be someone better looking, more successful or just more compatible but none the less that person is rejecting who you are and what you mean to them. It’s not cause they are crazy or emotional unavailable or have issues but just because they are not that into you. Simple as that. You can sit here and say they are EU etc.. but then after they reject you, they end up meeting someone shortly after who they ARE into and end up marrying them. It’s happened to me in the past.
Instead of trying to blame the other person for having issues. I know it’s easier that way but sometimes I feel like we can be avoiding the truth and just need to accept that we may not be able to be with certain partners who are on different levels then us.
What do you think?
James, keep reading this site. Go back and read some of Natalies previous posts. You’ll get it. She addresses ‘preferences’ which is what you are referring too. It’s still not rejection even if a person doesnt ‘meet’ another’s preferences.
I’ve read a lot of articles on here. It seems that most of them are putting the blame on breakups etc.. on the other party not being emotionally available or being an Assclown.
It just seems like that is always the default for things not working out. When maybe the guy/girl just wanted someone better looking, more successful etc…
If there is a specific post you can think of that will help me understand “preferences” please let me know. I’d like to read it.
James,
I can see what you’re saying, and you’re right when you say that not everyone we’ve dated (whether they were the rejector or the rejectee) was an EU or an assclown. Natalie’s posts explain the difference. I believe one of the posts is titled “Does Emotionally Unavailable Equal He’s Just Not That Into You” or similar.
Either way, yes rejection can occur for many reasons, some of which you stated. They may be shallow, but they are still possible reasons. However, sometimes it doesn’t make sense if that was all it was. For example, what’s going on when someone rejects you for someone who is obviously less attractive AND less successful? I’m not a vain person, but I am hands-DOWN more attractive, much younger, and more successful than the new girlfriend. So how do the cosmos explain that?
Sometimes it’s not that cut and dry. I find that people tend to gravitate towards others that are at the same level that they are at in life.
And truth be told, don’t we 99% percent of the time look back and say “Phew! Dodged THAT bullet!”
There’s another wider aspect to typical EU behaviour and rejection, James, which bears pointing out.
About one out of every 16 men are certifiably psychopathic according to the Hare Checklist. There are four times as many male psychopaths as there are female ones. (You can wiki all that to check it out) Sometimes they’re also sociopathic, sometimes not. Sometimes they’re also narcissistic, sometimes not. Sometimes they veer into criminality (1 of 4 incarcerated men are diagnosable psychopaths), but mostly not. In fact, many times, psychopaths hold high offices of responsibility and authority in society. They win popularity contests. They attract women.
Run the numbers, and one out of every 16 guys is doing a hell of a lot of damage to the women he encounters. It’s not speculation, it’s really happening. You’re reading the stories of many of those women right here, right now.
Here’s a bit of a cobbled together summary so you know what kind of person I’m referring to.
Charming but callous. Grandiose in self-regard. Calculating, rational, intellectual. Low fear including stress-tolerance, high self-confidence and social assertiveness. Poor impulse control, demand for immediate gratification, and poor behavioral restraints. Sexually promiscuous. Lacking empathy and close attachments with others, disdain of close attachments or affection, use of cruelty to gain empowerment, exploitative tendencies.
The psychopath is capable of manipulations executed with unbelievably cold, calculated intellectual and emotional maneuvers. Emotionally devoid. Charming, lacking in empathy, guilt, responsibility and the normal range of human emotion, they move among us with an often impeccable mask that makes them virtually undetectable…
The need for instant gratification, power and dominance is always at the expense of innocent victims that are manipulated and rejected once these needs have been met or once the perpetrator realises his needs will not be met or has identified another victim to move onto. The male psychopath in this instance has no consideration for how others feel or what consequences may arise from their reckless actions. There is simply no interest in anything other than their instant gratification and serving their desires. If the psychopathic perpetrator is challenged in any way by their victim(s) they can become argumentative and violent, blaming the victim thus shifting the focus from him onto them. This is because when challenged by others, there is a risk that they will be exposed as being something other than charming, intelligent and convincing.
Clearly, not every single destructive relationship and consequent bad breakup is caused by a psychopath. But many are. At least one of sixteen are, and the way these guys habitually move through quantities of women I wonder if it’s probably more like one of twelve or ten as a conservative estimate.
Look at the behavioural patterns described by Natalie and the women commenting. In so many cases, it’s more than just a matter of things ‘falling to the wayside’, ‘not working out’ or he just wanted ‘someone better looking’. There’s a plethora here of guilt-free, emotionally devoid game-playing, lying and manipulation. In many cases, it’s heard that the same guy goes on to repeat the same patterns with others down the line or returns to the same woman days, months or even years later to try to get her to engage once again in further game-playing, lying and manipulation. Do we have proof these guys are psychopaths? No, not unless they seek professional help. But do we know these guys are EU assclowns? Yes. We have all the proof of that we need.
James, it´s not about you meeting someone you´re not attracted to and then not engaging with him/her, it´s about men (and yes, women in some cases) who will maintain a relationship with someone they don´t intend to take seriously.
If you´re wondering about these posts, it´s probably because you´ve never done something like that and that´s very good of you. But there are tons of guys out there who are experts at making women believe they are giving them a real relationship, when in fact they are not.
Yes Grizelda you are right. We are not all whinging around saying “Oh, my relationship ended. How could that have happened?” I have been divorced twice and had many other failed relationships. NEVER have I encountered a EUM before and the experience has left me baffled and bewildered. It is not the “normal” kind of breakup we are going on about here, where one party tires of another and dumps them. This is sustained emotional battering of women who considered themselves strong and independent. My EUM told me he was attracted to me because I was so independent and emotionally aloof. He pursued me so hard and future faked to olympic standard. The sun literally shone out of my butt until he knew I had fallen for him, then he withdrew sex (this has NEVER happened before) whilst still insisting he wanted to remain in the relationship. He kept me dangling and would not let me go until I found this site and realized what kind of creature I was dealing with. I have managed to finish with him which was actually heartbreaking for me as I still love him but he is not the man he purported to be. I am now left licking my wounds and feeling like shit, whilst he probably hasn’t given me a second thought and is lining up his next victim. I feel really damaged by this relationship and have never felt that way before. Dealing with an EUM is definitely not the same as your run of the mill relationship drama.
Agreed, Victorious. I shake my head with disgust and disbelief at the behaviour of men described in the stories I read on BR such as yours. So many of these men, if they are as described, must actually be mentally unwell.
I had just three long term monogamous romances (age 15-19) before my 20 year relationship that included 16 years of monogamous marriage — all with normal, healthy men. My marriage ended amicably after a year’s worth of couples’ counselling. We tried. Really, really tried hard.
Nearly a year later, who comes roaring into my life but a species of man I’d never encountered before in any way: MM/EU psychopath with an added dash of narcissism. I was a ‘good girl’, relatively defenseless, new to being single, and completely wide-eyed and innocent. Excellent lilly-necked fresh meat for such a vampire. I efficiently coped with the married bit day to day, year to year, and normalised it, led on by that breadcrumb trail of lies and promises and hope. Starved of affection and cuddles, totally corrupted by his demands and obsession with dominance, handed hard intellectual facts instead of expressed emotion, I was directed and callously manipulated by someone ‘important’ whose insistent self-regard knew no bounds. Having been trained from the earliest age to deal with an emotionally devoid, superior man (my father), coping came almost as second nature. I was brilliant at it. My mother would be proud.
His sudden cruel rejection, followed quickly on by an email he made me promise to respond to (but I haven’t, that’s 3.5 weeks NC), was as hellishly disorienting and heartbreaking for me as he could possibly have hoped for in his wildest dreams.
I know normal. I’ve lived normal. This is not normal.
Grizelda, Victorious, amazing posts. I recognise the exMM in all of your comments. The manipulation, the lies, promises, lack of affection, cruelty, lack of empathy – all of it. My recent run-in with the exMM has inflicted more damage. Yes, I put my hand back in the fire and got seriously burned. All because of my need for a reference! It’s excruciatingly painful, but now I’m mad as hell. Yesterday he emailed me suggesting that we talk on skype before he leaves the country. I thought this was my chance to get closure. I wrote back a heartfelt email explaining that I’m still emotionally vulnerable so it would be best if we didn’t speak. I also took the opportunity to explain that his behaviour and lack of compassion had hurt me badly and inflicted much damage, etc, etc. It wasn’t too long and I did not go into explicit detail. It felt good to get it out. I wished him a safe journey. I’m not sure if I expected a reply or not. However, this morning I received a brief, cold, heartless response (what’s new). He apologised for his “deficient conduct”, said he is “trying to do better these days” and that my decision to cut contact seemed sensible to him. He went on to say it was “bad luck” that I lost my son. I feel like pulling his head off. Rage, rage, rage……… I want to hurt him back. I have feelings of revenge, but I will take my dog for a long,long walk instead. Later, I’m going to cry and cry and I don’t want to anymore. I also know normal, I’ve lived it and this is NOT normal.
Lilly,
I agree that Grizelda and Victorious have written some insightful comments here. AND, I am so sorry you have been hurt again by the exMM! I know you have been struggling with wanting closure, and having a strong desire to work through the loss of your baby with the exMM, so the break of NC for a reference check must have been a huge temptation to try to go back and get that closure. You succumbed to that temptation – you are human! Now you can take back your power once and for all. You have said what you wanted to say to him. He has replied in his “brief, cold, heartless” emotionally stunted way, consistent with his past behaviour. You are now hurt again. Lilly, please let this be the last time you open this wound to him. Feel your anger, walk and talk with your dog, tell your counsellor what happened, and get back to REAL NC. You now have valuable information about what happens when you re-engage. You get hurt again. Badly. Don’t ever give him that chance again. He has given you a reference, you have wished him well, he is leaving the country. Now is your chance to feel your feelings and put yourself first so that you can heal. Go ahead and cry and cry until it’s all out of you. You know not to put yourself in harm’s way again. Just keep your baby’s memory close to YOUR heart. He doesn’t need closure from the exMM, and neither do you. You are strong enough to get through this. I will be thinking of you, and I send you many hugs Lilly. xoxoxoxo
Lilly be good to yourself. Yours is one of the most heartbreaking tales on BR or anywhere.
I’m still a newcomer to this, but approaching 4 weeks NC, I’m starting to feel a bit more like my old self again. Just a little. The paralyzing grief, where the blood feels like acid in the veins, is almost all gone now. After losing almost 15% of my body weight in three weeks due to the stress and grief (120lbs to 100lbs), and lots of hair falling out, I’ve actually gained a pound and my hair is looking much better. I’m not sleeping well, but at least I’m no longer waking up with a massive whoosh of catatonic anxiety washing over me from head to toe. Thoughts are still foggy, but I’m starting — just starting — to see things objectively at last.
I wish you could join me in this improved state Lilly, I really do. Please be careful with yourself and try try try NC.
Learner & Grizelda, It’s as if I needed to see things one more time so I could finally get it – that final piece of evidence. I now have it. I can’t go down any further because I’m already there. I don’t regret sending the email and I’m glad he knows how I feel. This may sound as if I’ve lost my mind, but I’m spending today with my son. We’re going for a long, long walk and I’m going to try and gain my own closure. It’s strange, something has shifted, but I have no idea what it is. No thinking for me today, for once I’m just going to feel. Big hugs to both of you, thank you xoxx
Me too Grizelda. I had been single for two years after coming out of a 14 year marriage ( to someone I had known for many years previous) and so I had not dated for nearly 18 years. I was really naive and although I thought he was a bit odd, being so full on at the start, I guess I wanted to believ in it. I was STARVED of romance and I am ashamed to admit I lapped it all up like the good little girl I am. He was DETERMINED to hook me in and make me love him. It took him three months of concerted effort but once he had acheived his aim, he didn’t just dump me. Oh no! He almost destroyed me with his “You are so special/I don’t want to have sex with you any more/I want much more than just friendship from you/Yeah I don’t think I can see you for about ten days/the time I spend with you is perfect/I am just not feeling it any more/that last date we had is a day I will remember for the rest of my life. Confused? I took about 5 to 6 weeks of that and was in counselling/off work/ begging my doctor for valium. Eventually my survival instincts took over and I tearfully finished with hi-m
Grizelda,
You knowingly got involved with a MM. You’re not a victim, or innocent in this situation.
The only victims in this story are the kids and wife. Time to take some responsibility!
Victorious
This and the other posts set in in perspective. I’ve also had a fairly long relationship history, sometimes they broke up with me, sometimes the other way round, and sometimes it was a mutual decision that we were not compatible. Nothing has been as traumatic as this. Not even close. I have never been pursued so hard at the beginning and then such subtly disrespectful and hurtful behaviour. From an always smiling, charming handsome man. I don’t know if he was a psychopath, that seems extreme, but he was certainly narcissistic and when I think of him I now feel fear. I am still struggling to work out what really happened and who he actually was.
@ Mymble
I am sorry you are suffering so and IMHO having experienced something very similar,that you were involved w/a narcissist.So so much more traumatic than any previous going our separate ways that I have ever felt. Narc’s do what is called “love bombing’ or what Nat might call the ‘hot’ phase, but it ends with their discarding and devaluing their target unless maybe the target got fed up and walked away first. Never having experienced it, nothing really prepares you for it. Also, a sociopath & a narcissist have similar traits. Hope that helps some.
Outergirl
That’s exactly it, it is odd how similar all these stories are. Is this a new phenomenon? I don’t remember it at all when I was dating in my 20s.
It has actually been a
while now and I’m much better really, although I still think about it way too much.
I understand Mymble, I think that is a hallmark of the damage they do, that it takes a very long while to get over it because the rejection comes out of nowhere. It wreaks havoc with your sense of logic. I never knew someone could only pretend to like you. It was a new category! Either you liked them and they liked you or you liked them and they weren’t interested, but to spend years w/you and never develop true feelings for you, just hanging around until something better comes along, really turned my world upside down. Also
I agree, it feels like it is rampant these days and the media seems to glorify this behavior.
…brilliant & on point!..we are not looking for a reason to blame…we are sharing our experiences… These men operate from the same manual…
Post of the Year! You just described my ex, the ultimate AC 🙂 lmao. I smile more every day now that he’s finally GONE (and I pat myself on the back for keeping him there, haha!) Sometimes these morons just need a serious kick in the ass in the form of total silence (translation – NO Contact). Will they be confused and their feelings be hurt? Sure they will but who really cares? It’s time to start caring about ourselves instead of wasting time on those 1 in 16 idiots. 🙂
I don’t agree that the articles put the blame on the other person for breaking up. What I learned from BR was mainly about my own poor choices, my own culpability if you like. That was the real eye opener for me, and I learned it right here. Natalie actually forces us to take along hard look at our own relationship behaviour and how to avoid those pitfall. But an asshole is still an asshole! in same vein as ‘just cos you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you!’. I don’t blame my ex for the breakup – I blame him for not breaking up! For leading me up the garden path with his ambiguous behaviour for years, and I blame me for not getting my head out of the sand sooner and breaking up with him!
ps these EU men do not break up with us – that’s the point! There is neither rejection nor commitment. They just disappear and re-appear at will. They never break-up! They’re in and they’re out and in and out ad infinitum – now he’s here, now he’s gone; it’s like dancing the hokey-cokey with Harry Houdini. Not good-looking enough has nothing to do with it – or they wouldn’t be all over us like a hot rash every time they wanted to dance in again. ps again – We are all dead good looking btw! 🙂
Just wanted to add my 1 cent James as the others have explained the difference between a “normal” sometimes heartbreaking break-up (I’ve experienced several) and the non-break-up with an EUM/AC. It’s the one foot in, one foot out, manipulation, deceit, and down right selfish behavior that disoriented me. It is the most difficult thing to describe to someone who has never experienced this trauma. Moreover, the two EU/AC’s I was involved with (one married) were admired by all and the exMM is an elected leader. The admiration by all is another element of disorientation. In any event, you are extremely fortunate if you have not experienced this type of trauma and I hope you never do. I would have never believed such unfair, disrespectful, dehumanizing behavior was possible until I experienced it. Oh and I’m post doc with a respectable profession, described by my colleagues as brilliant, and still described by 20-somethings to 60-somethings as “hot”. Whatever!
Interesting. The Ex-EUM was also in a position where he is held up as a paragon of professional virtue. In fact if you googled his name you would see he has received awards for his bravery in appalling circumstances (not military) I was very in awe of this and of his popularity. And yes, like all the other ladies I am considered pretty hot! There do seem to be patterns that emerge with these men. Another pattern I have seen is that they are often substance/alcohol abusers. Mine had a cocaine habit.
Gosh. Snap.
My exMM is one of the top lawyers in the country. Led some extraordinary cases in the past few years.
The only addiction is workaholism. It’s been highly noted in studies that the legal field attracts an extraordinary proportion of diagnosable psych/narcs. Apparently they are attracted to high positions in the judicial system in order to cloak themselves as invincible leading moralists, authorities, and superior intellectualists against whom no opposition can be made and against whom no nefarious accusations of immorality can stand.
He admitted to me that before he decided on a degree and career in law, he toyed for many years with the idea of a degree in philosophy with the aim of pursuing a high ranking role in a completely different profession.
Which profession was it? The clergy.
Clergy, lawyers, logically! Where else can one better parade as a moral authority! Many of these creatures are to be found in psychiatry as well, as they love the power it gives them over the lives of other people. Many end up working in counselling, or with children. Scary!
James, are you a troll? I am not being mean, I am sincerely asking, because your “maybe they just need someone better looking” comment is so shallow and inflamatory that it could not have been accidental, lol. If you seriously don’t get what type of site this is then you should probably find what you need…one of those cheesy men sites where men get dubious advice on controlling women might work:)
DQ 🙂
Askmen dot com! They tell men to dump a girl by taking her to a restaurant. Hey it’s a public place so that she has to, you know, hold in those annoying and stupid little girl tears. They probably go on to say be sure to order a drink first and down it in one, hey dutch courage and all, chin chin, think of the new hottie you’ve got lined up. Then make sure to go in for the kill and deliver the dump before she gets a chance to order dinner. Not after. Several reasons. She might run out of the place, the silly oversensitive little miss, and you don’t want to have to pay for an appetiser plate that’s not eaten, right? You also don’t want her to have a hot missile of fettucini in front of her to throw at your head. That’d be dumb. If you wait til after you eat, she might be so emotionally bent that she’s sick in the ladies room, and that’d be a total waste of like a twenty dollar sea bass, know what I’m saying?
These magazines, these websites, are nothing but sources of encouragement for the EU assclowns.
I find Evan Marc Katz strays into that territory too. Some of the advice is okay but I feel there is an underlying misogyny there.
dancingqueen,
What is a troll?
Learner
Q was for DQ but I’ll answer anyhow, it’s someone who goes onto sites like this and posts inflammatory material in order to annoy or upset other posters and provoke a strong response.Kind of attention seeking.
Mymble – thanks for the troll info. Sounds like a person with too much time on their hands!
I think the problem is not that others will reject us, or not be “into us” or not be attracted or whatever – it’s that we give their opinion WAY too much importance and power in our lives. And that’s all it is, an opinion, a preference, a leaning based often on things they aren’t even aware of themselves. Much of what motivates people is unconscious anyway – they barely understand it themselves, and we certainly don’t have the power to change their tastes. Their opinion of us is not a pronouncement of Truth from on high. It’s not even a “rejection” per se and it really has nothing to do with us – UNLESS WE TELL OURSELVES IT DOES. This is where self-esteem takes an awful beating.
You can be the most luscious peach ever – and some people just don’t like peaches! They’re not attracted to peaches, they don’t like the taste, the shape, the texture, the color, whatever. This doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with the peach itself!!! Taking someone’s non-interest in you as a personal judgement of your worth and quality is simply an error in thinking.
When I got dumped, I tortured myself at the beginning by lamenting “what’s wrong with me that he doesn’t want me???” Eventually I was able to ask “what’s wrong with HIM that he doesn’t want me?? The journey from the first to the second sentence took almost a year. Now I’m finally to the point where I understand that there really wasn’t anything wrong with either of us. He overestimated his interest in me, and wasn’t that into me, and I understand that. I was a terrific peach, but he discovered that what he really wanted was an orange. So be it. What I deeply resented, and what hurt was the shitty way he handled the break-up, which made him a real AC. That’s a separate issue. But I no longer feel “rejected” because he wanted somebody else, nor do I see his lack of interest in me as any reflection on my value – nor does his behavior or thoughts have any power to influence how I feel about myself.
Why should I give his behavior and thoughts and opinion of me any real weight when they may be completely idiotic, based on God-knows-what erroneous thinking on his part, dysfunctional childhood patterns, his limited experiences, some book he read, some movie he saw, some weird fantasy that’s in his head, what his peers think is important, what he thinks about himself, his level of emotional and intellectual maturity (which might not go very deep)… Who knows! And happily, I can finally say, WHO CARES!
I am the most luscious peach ever. 😉 He can keep his damn oranges.
WOW, so true Sadder But Wiser! Yes, I do not care what ACs think about me, the most important what I think about myself:-) I am perfect for myself haha…My two ACs (ex and current one) came back to my life and want to meet up, and I am thinking do I really want them??? Not really…Maybe just use and abuse them? I want a revenge and I want them to suffer as I did! Life is great again:-)
Be careful Little Star. Why bother? Don’t get burned.
Also, I don’t think what any of us are talking about is a lack of initial attraction. We all have certain things we’re looking for and aren’t attracted to certain people, whether it’s based on physical appearance or personality or something else. That’s to be expected. In my case, at least, I’m talking about someone with whom I was in a relationship and who told me and showed me that he cared about me a lot but said he couldn’t be with me because he was scared by relationships (after starting one with me) due to being hurt by a woman many, many years before and due to his bad relationship with his late father. He can only handle “casual” relationships, not any where there’s a potential intimate future.
James
The full post is not really about relationship breakups and he/she’s not into you. That’s the least of our problems.
Our problem isn’t the men and women who break up with us and then go their own way. The problem ones are those who feel the need to come back and disrespect you. touching you up for sex, “friendship”, an ego stroke, not letting you move on, dropping you and picking you up on a whim. In those cases it’s not just a one-off case of rejection, it’s LIVING in a state of rejection. The constant unspoken message – if I were better, he/she would stop treating me like this. And that’s about us only in so far as we accept it and make it about us.
every day that the ex-playa didn’t call me, or failed to show up, ignored me, or chased other women it felt like he was rejecting me. I felt rejected. But he was just doing what he does. It wasn’t about me. in his own words I was beautiful and not a bitch. WOW HIGH PRAISE WHAT WAS I THINKING.
Ha! I laughed out loud at “That’s the least of our problems.” Amen, Grace. Amen. I’ll take a breakup from a grown man where it just didn’t “work out” over a Houdini-pulling, jumped-up truculent three-year old who can’t find his way out of an empty room any day of the week!
I don’t know if it’s helpful or even honest to consider that somehow you aren’t “good enough” for someone else. “Good enough” conjures up a sense of moral objectivity and judgment. And I don’t believe that anyone has the monopoly on moral objectivity, especially when dealing with something as subjective as interpersonal relationships.
I think incompatibility is a more helpful word here. And incompatibility cuts both ways—it’s not about someone making some universal judgment about your “worthiness” as a person. Am I not “good enough” for the guy who says he would prefer to marry a non-divorced woman? I don’t think so. I think that kind of language is a bit clumsy and emotionally damaging.
This guy continued to pursue me (what the what?) until I told him that I couldn’t date him, since I needed to be in a relationship where I didn’t feel *damaged* and treated as second-rate. Hmm…tables are turned. Was he not good enough for me? Or was it that we were simply incompatible. Even if it was a mutual rejection of sorts, is his rejection of me somehow an indictment of my character or a statement about my self-worth? I think “not good enough” conveys that sentiment.
Ultimately, we can’t be compatible with EVERYONE, despite how much our ego wants that to be the case. I think “good enough” conveys that somehow we should.
Laurie
Yep, not quite the same as marrying a divorced person, but I couldn’t marry a non Christian. Values too different. I want to be able to talk about the bible, about God and pray with a future husband. That’s my perogative. It doesn’t make non christians Lesser people. however, it would be very irresponsible of me to get myself a non Christian boyfriend/friend and hang out with him and flirt with him and enjoy his attention, while telling him I can’t really be with him. He’s gonna get confused.
grace,
I’m a committed Christian too, but all of the Christian guys I’ve ever met have been judgmental or want a nice little stay-at-home wife. It’s encouraging to me that you found a Christian guy who accepts you AND shares your same values. Gives me hope!
Message for Kathie.
I understand completely you having a hiccup after a year of NC, i am going into my 3rd year and there are times when if i sit and think of some of the wonderful times (yes there were some) we had together before i was dismissed like a used piece of tissue, i can lose it and still shed some tears. I know now what he is, which is a complete narcissist and he will never settle down with anyone but just stay on the roundabout with his ‘friends’ to take off them whatever he can by way of ego strokes, sex, money, leeching off their good natures and looking for someone he can live with and possibly offload them of their cash.
For me it has been a long haul as i really loved this man, but as he cannot love anyone but himself i never stood a chance. But, i am happy within myself now, it is only on the odd occasion like birthdays, anniversaries etc and if i let my mind wander, it seems like only yesterday that we split up which can bring me down. I am a strong person though and i shall get there in the end.
@ James: I can accept that a guy may realize while dating me that I am not the one for him for whatever the reason (not pretty enough, tall enough, smart enough, etc.). What I have a problem with and what hurts is when the person KNOWS this, but strings me along (future fakes) while waiting for something better to come along simply because they are selfish and feel that having somebody is better than not having anybody.
Gina,
I totally understand what you are saying. I have just recently had that done to me and I have done it to girls in the past. Although I don’t anymore but I still fall victim to it being done to me.
Ugh, the rejection thing. I have definitely personalized the reasons why my ex (who I want to refer to as an EIB= Emotionally Immature Baby, sort of like an EUM in training) ended things with me. Or, it’s better to see why he just disappeared without having the decency to explain anything to me. After finding out he’s with someone else, I have asked myself how it’s possible when I did everything for him? I literally sacrificed all I could and more and put in such a ridiculous amount of effort to keep a long-distance relationship going. And then just like that, he doesn’t care about me anymore. The hardest thing has been to stop asking what I did to bring this on as trying to figure out his behavior is killing my brain. 34 days complete NC now (I am including his family in NC as I maintained contact with them well after we ended things and I think I’ve definitely had my fair share of “you poor thing” phone calls with them).I almost broke down today to look at his FB (even though I have deactivated my account and blocked him), but I stayed strong. I have to remind myself that it will get better.
CC. Go back to “Are You Being Nice & Passive To Win A Relationship……..” In it you had shared your insight/wisdom to Tired, Grizelda and Victorious. Well, You also helped me so much by uncovering for me some issues that I’ve long held, did not understand and never realized they existed. My post was chiefly directed to you, so I would like you to read it. I don’t know if it’s me but my brain seems to be slowing down because I am delving deeply into my issues in a slow, deliberate and thorough manner, and Natalie’s posts seem to be coming faster lately. No sooner do I absorb her teachings and really “get it”, she posts a new one, so my head is spinning. If someone said nice things about me and creditted me with being an instrument for change in their lives, I would want to know about it, so that is why I’m making you aware so you can read it. Actually, I had intended for that comment to be on a more recent article. Then when I went to recheck if it had gone through the moderation I was unable to find it and had to trace back about 4 posts.– My mistake. Thank you for being there. You are a gem on BR.
aw, lil tinkerbell-
i read this and i went back and read the other and gosh, i don’t even know what to say. …to the point where i just said “gosh”.
you’ve been through so very much, honey. and losing your mom so recently…please accept my condolences. we can have so much loss that its as if we’re punch drunk, and that only makes it harder to learn.
but don’t put pressure on yourself. see? its the same thing as needing time. there’s no need to “keep up” – sometimes i go back and read BR stuff i read months ago and i learn something new, even then. you’re like me, you’re too hard on yourself. don’t do that, try to be gentle, you need it and should have it. you need gentleness. yes, its nice when it comes from a man, but you can give it to yourself. really.
treat you like you want someone else to treat you, and accept it from yourself, fully. since i started doing that, i’m completely different. and what i ask for and what i accept are completely different, and so much better.
thank you for letting me know, and i’m so very glad my words helped you, that anyone’s words helped you. we can get a firehose of advice shot at us, but sometimes only certain words help. and the thoughts i put here are often those that either someone said to me or that i wish had been said and i had to figure out for myself.
c’mere, honey. *mmaaaaassive hug* …gosh…oh, i’m goshing again…
Cc you hit the nail on the head but i couldnt put that into the words ypu have but thats him and his harem to a tee . I just never saw it till a couple of months ago , he falls out with peole all the time when the qestion him on his shit both male and female , thats her agenda she is very scarey obbsesive nutjob to the point once down pub she was grabbing him and telling every one she was his bitch and that she gets their drinks , i kinda laugh as he diesnt realise what hes let himself infor with her and when she clicks hes seeing her mate all hell is gonna let loose , so karma will catch him
Mymble yes that is it , hes embarrased i called him on his shitty behaviour and thats it ,, because he knows i know now exactly what he is , down here i was tucked away from it all blissfully unsware to nutjob opened her mouth and all lies poured forth .
And thats why i struggled because it been a shock finding it all out and processing it , when i cslled him on why he not even friends he turned on him he was having shit tome home, work and in general to make me feel sorry but that was week or so and im nc since then and intend to stay that way.
Yes i know what the ow is indtore for until shell click and find out like me and if she questions you get this. ” i dont want to loose you as a friend but if you dont want to talk for a while ” yep thsts whsy i got when i qestioned him , i daid what ypu dont want to bey friend becoz i asked a question ? But thats him you make him feel uncomfatable and he pulls thst card or oh well im such a c***t i wont contact you again knowing youll back track .
Yes shell think shes special party to his secrets etc and then one day when he bored or burnt out it be over and shell be like me. Hopefully she wont waste five years , wish i haf found this place sooner .
But i didnt text im me gping places and im mo longer part of harem and he knows it , he knows i see him for the liar he is and im glad made him squirm . Its ego for him hes very lowesteem and one day when he aint in band having perps nlow smoke up hos bum that be cut off for good , lol
Plus i wouldnt , wont to go back because i can see it all , it would burn me up and destroy me , maybe thats why the wife doesnt take part , chooses to exsist at home away from it all . Its slowly dawning on me my epiphany as i see it very very clearly and i take those specs off , why couldnt i have seen it sooner x
Im angry , that he could do it knowingly use a good person and return knowing hed do it again , for their own selfish needs i guess , yet in cold light of day course he could he does it everyone x
But tired, you did know he was married and a cheat, so why did you think he would treat you better than his wife?
There’s a good post on here about affairs being like a heist gone wrong.
yes i knew he wasnt married when i first met him and yes i stayed tho he choose to marry the girl he was with and thats my low self esteem , i was in a mentally bullying marraige , really any one could have paid me attentionb and id have gone off into a affair.and five years later , i cant paint a rosey pic as it was a affair for six months then he eneded it and i did waaaayyyyy back then eight weeks nc till i sent a email telling him what i thought and he got back in touch and it was a friendship then it was really booty call with him giving nothing and me being deluded into thinking coz he couldnt give me up he was just using meplain and simple and then someone who followed the band round caught his eye and hey presto been replaced , tho i actuslly called time on it coz it was a mess at end . and here i am nc and up and down like a jack in the box good times then ill sink down , i know it will pass as time goes by and thats what i got to give it . its changed i see him for what he is , no longer in a fantasy , shame i wasted all that time , still lesson learned x
Grace … enjoy the ride! You are awesome. You were awesome before the crush/ex-crush/the man/ beau/boyfriend. If he were to decide to move along, you would STILL be awesome. As a friend once told me, profound words, “Love him … let him love you.” Enjoy the ride. 🙂
My answer to your initial Q James is that someone who would reject me b/c I am not ‘good looking’ enough for him is someone I would also reject because his core values don’t match mine. Superficiality is pretty easy to spot. This guy is highly unlikely to even get my number, let alone a date! LoL
Oh & the reason I say that? Because looks fade for EVERYONE! LOL That’s just a biological fact. Someone so DUMB is just not worth my time. LOL
What AM I looking for?
Honest.
Kind
Respectful.
Trustworthy.
Humble.
Supportive
Emotionally mature (including ability to commit).
Financially responsible.
Good communicator (including ability to resolve conflict positively)
Nothing there about has to earn a certain amount/ be a high flier/ good looking etc. Those things are all icing on the cake. Physical attraction is what makes you first notice a person but this also grows as we come to know a person’s soul.
I’m not remotely interested in a himbo & those who marry for $ will spend the rest of their lives earning every cent. I’m surprised that people wouldn’t this (not you neccessarily). Perhaps this partly explains the high divorce rate! LoL
Hear hear Revolution. It’s very true that water finds it’s own level or however that saying goes. Often with AC’s they target women who are way out of their league to begin with. How many remember being told very early on, ‘you’re too good for
me.’ When a guy say’s this RUN FOR THE HILLS. It’s a BURNING red flag & he’s dead on & know’s it. By stating the bleeding obvious in the early stages (before you’ve realised what a pig he is) the intent, is for you to respond, in the negative. Don’t be silly you say, thereby securing your sign up to the dodgy creep before his true colors are out of the bag. Nat has a post on this somewhere. Thus, tend to disagree on that one James. Re women on BR, most were actually too good for the AC’s & EUM’s in the first instance. The sad thing is, they just didn’t realise it fully until they got here (although deep inside they/we usually knew).
I had to laugh at your comment, teachable. So true. I’ve had the AC Gold Collection, including such well-loved favorites as “You’re Too Good for Me”, “You’re a Gem (Any Man That Gets You is Lucky)”,(No shit, Sherlock), and (love this one): “You’re the Perfect Girl for Me.” Annnnnnd…….scene. Right before he pulled a Houdini. Sheesh, if that’s how you treat the “perfect girl” for you, I shudder to think what all of those other “incompatible” girls of yours have to suffer.
Yes, true, water seeks it’s own level. And, truth be told, we have some ‘splainin’ to do, Lucy, because we attracted these ACs and did our little dysfunctional dance with them too. But, of course, we all know this and that’s why we’re here. To grow and change. And heal.
I also wanted to add that I felt like a right a**hole for saying what I said in my previous comment to James re: being more attractive, etc. than the new woman. *hangs head* That’s not the person I am, or want to be. I don’t want to tear down others to boost myself. She doesn’t deserve that. I’m sorry I said it. It reduces me to the level of AC, something I never want. I only said it because it baffled me, because if (IF) my EUM was really all about looks and prestige, it wouldn’t make sense (just the cold hard facts) to go to her instead of me. It doesn’t make me “better” or her “worse.”
I especially made the “water seeks it’s own level” link because I’ve seen that the EU and the new woman are both seeking to blame things in their lives on others. They are both living somewhat dysfunctionally, (though I do think they both have good hearts). Still, I think my ex-EU is looking to be “saved” from his problems, and she will listen to him and sympathize, whereas one of the last conversations I had with him, I basically told him (trying to be a good friend) that I was sick of his sob story, and that he needed to move FORWARD with the help of his support group (including me). Guess I didn’t tickle his ears (or anything else for that matter) enough.
Anyway, make of that what you will. I’m still having my morning coffee here in the US, so I hope this all makes sense.
Teachable,
Such a good point. Although the “good enough” thing still rubs me the wrong way. The ex constantly said to me: “You’re completely out of my league” “Are you sure you’re not settling by being with me?” I’m ashamed to admit that it was somewhat flattering to me at the time…and then he showed his ass. Now I know what all those phrases ultimately meant: we are INCOMPATIBLE.
Laurie, that’s a common line with numerous variations. His variation was “you deserve better”. Somehow, I heard that and thought, “no YOU deserve better, I’m that better, and I’ll prove it to you”. After BR, if I heard those words again, it wouldn’t just be a sign of incompatibility, it would be a red flag, abort mission, and run as fast as I can. When a guy says “you are out of my league or you deserve better”…listen cos you are. Don’t give them a chance to faux reject you.
Oh books. Stay strong That twerp did you the
BIGGEST favour. Never open your door, phone, email, etc to him again!!!! This too shall pass. Lose yourself in your namesake.xx
OMG Natalie, I totally ‘feel you’ on this one.
I also dealt with similar problems with my father while he was alive and have had to deal with the same, if not worse, from my mother.
It’s the whole passive aggressive thing that gets me. They never seem to be able to own anything – their behaviour, their excuses, their unhealthy need to compete, their miserably hurtful words… It’s incredibly painful and I personally don’t think it gets any easier.
I made the decision about four years ago now to go completely NC on my mother because I could no longer manage healthy boundaries with her – she doesn’t understand the concept and refuses to respect them so I asked her to keep away until such time as she could be respectful towards me. She has respected that much and has kept away.
I’m sure I’ve said this before on a previous post, my ‘ah-ha’ moment came after I split from my ex and realised ‘OMG…I’ve married my mother!’. Emotionally unavailable, never satisfied, always bringing me down (but rarely directly), and so on and so forth…
Parents definitely set up that pattern of emotional unavailability which leads us to repeat it in our choice of partner, if we’re not careful. It’s up to us as adults to break free. Thank God we can! We just need to keep the faith, take the plunge, allow ourselves to be vulnerable and open in safe environments and attract the right people – those who are similarly open and unafraid to engage with us emotionally.
It is incredibly painful to have a parent who is unfit to even have a decent relationship. Some people are incapable of this and it is soooo painful for the child. I am distancing myself from my father. He can be incredibly charming. But now I know it’s all an act. He does this to get his way so that he doesn’t have to face himself and deal with the consequences of his actions.
i cant blame my mum and dad they have always loved me and maybe i have not matured in some ways and in others i have . Tbh i have always been a door mat , but i look now and i walked from my husband , and just recently from the ex mm i have stood my ground on somethings and others im weak i put my hands up to that . but im trying thats the main thing im trying to change a pattern of a life time .
James,
I have never fallen in love with someone because of his looks, charm, wit, career, dressing style, lifestyle, etc. I have been attracted for some of those shallow reasons, but I never stuck around for those reasons. Once a relationship develops, healthy humans have feelings that go deeper, or are expected to go deeper. We might have our own issues that are mucking it up, but we want to believe that we are engaging with someone at a level that goes beyond the surface, that there is a respectful, caring connection.
If you don’t care about making a connection, and yet you are still sticking around and you’re even saying things or going through the motions to appear to be in a meaningful relationship, well then, you’re in it because you have your own selfish agenda. Maybe you want sex, an ego stroke or the appearance of a girlfriend until someone “better” comes along. In other words, you’re using someone. Does your ultimate rejection — for whatever reason — make that someone less worthy? Is their value lacking because you used and dumped them without getting to know them? Not at all. Anyone who’d stick around and cruelly pretend-play a relationship for their own selfishness is not a person worth having. Rejection by a narcissistic turd is a saving grace, not a tragedy.
Sadly, and this is something we discuss here a lot, the people who get used (and who deluded themselves) should have had boundaries in place to keep those users at bay.
Now, there are also people who enter into relationships with good intentions and do have loving, meaningful relationships that then fall apart because one or both parties lose interest. But it doesn’t end because one of them isn’t pretty or tall enough! It ends because one of them stopped trying or they changed, or they stayed together too long for the wrong reasons, or they got bored with each other. That can’t be helped. That’s life.
But anyone who’s looking for prettier, thinner, richer, blonder, blah blah, blah, just isn’t the sort of person who’s going to establish a meaningful connection anyway. They’re living through their ego, and they won’t ever make anyone truly happy, including themselves. This sort of person goes through a whole life of rejecting and being rejected, forever skimming the surface.
James and Kerry – what I don’t understand is, how does someone even get into a dating situation with someone, and then wake up one day and say, “uh oh, I JUST REALIZED this person isn’t good-looking enough to be with me! Must break up with them.” Isn’t this something that should be decided BEFORE getting into a relationship with someone?? Isn’t it easy enough to decide whether or not someone meets your standards of looks before you get involved with them?
Dawn,
Sometimes people (and I have done this myself) will date someone they are not THAT attracted to thinking that they will grow on them. Or that their personality will shine through and they will be attracted to them and look past their appearance.
I have heard from many guys and girls who have done this.
I need to be attracted physically first and foremost to someone I date but there have been many times where I have tried to date someone who didn’t meet my standards/preferences physically hoping that their personality would shine through and make me attracted to them.
It has never worked.
James, I did date a guy one time whom I really liked. He was fun, good personality and seemed like a decent guy but he just wasnt for me and once I realized that, I let him go. I did not then keep boomeranging back to him. This is going to sound weird but I do like the person I date to have some style when it comes to clothing. I have flat out denied requests for dates because the person was dressed so bad it turned me off. Weird but that is my preference and doesnt say anything about them as a person. Now I have had guys use a disgusting pick up line on me and I certainly did reject their behavior.
When I first came on BR, I did see some of my own behavior in Natalies posts and it made me feel shameful or like I wanted to justify it. But as I kept coming here, reading and applying it helped me to stop some of the things I was doing and helped me to recognize when others werent treating me properly which is something I desparately needed to know. Keep reading it will come to you. .
Yeah I went from being the most gorgeous creature on Gods earth to being not hot enough to shag “overnight” with no rows, nothing at all happening, just suddenly I was rejected/not good enough/not up to scratch/whatever. Leaves you feeling baffled and desparate to win back their affections. I guess that was the whole point?
Kerry,
*applause* Your comment put it all in a nutshell. Ex.Act.Ly. Curtain, end credits.
ok, so….
dancingqueen?!? you out there?!?
i don’t know if i’ve gotten to the “poor loser” stage, because that pity sounds too dangerously close to affection right now, but … i’m over the ex-EUM. i thought i was but now i know i am, but its like i got my cast off and wasn’t sure i could put weight on it, but guess what? its holding.
and why? because i fixed the part of my core that was wounded that had connected to him. and as it healed, i could see more and more how, while there were some great things about him, things i probably did really love, he was so severely limited in so many ways and so wounded himself that a relationship with him was impossible.
and it was me who put him on a pedestal and made him, even though i struggled with myself to not do it even as i was doing it, a judge of me. a part of me died and put him in charge, or agreed with the charge he took, in a thousand little ways. and the rest of me alternately tried to comply and then kicked and screamed about it. because guess what? he pretty much sucked at it. that guy should NEVER be given charge over anyone’s heart. they’ll die on the vine, just like i did.
because – relevant to the topic of this post – as i healed myself and the layers of regret and feeling rejected and being so angry with myself dropped away, i was able to remember my gut-level reactions to sooooo very much of what he did. they were as follows:
…..that’s it? …really? that’s all i get? that’s the extent of the attention, affection, consideration, care, respect? that’s all that’s on the respect, generosity, intimacy menu? that’s all you have to give? seriously? um, no offense, but…..you don’t actually think anyone could be satisfied with that, do you? ….are you really working on this like you say you are? …do you really want this?
…and then i would slather on yet another layer of crumb-acceptance and/or rationalization and/or waiting for it to get better.
it never got better. and i put my foot down when it became clear to me that it wasn’t going to, even after i tried to so hard and swallowed so much. and i blamed myself, my poor self. when it wasn’t about me. it was all always about him.
i know i’ve written comments very like this one before, but its different now. i didn’t feel like this then. wanna know what i feel?
blissful. embarrassingly blissful. because i fixed my core. and he’s not a spectre anymore. and i’m not vulnerable, at least not like i was, in that way anymore. and i don’t have to wonder or worry or hurt or regret or beat myself or him up anymore.
yaaaay!
Hey CC! I got this late but I am excited; you hit that moment! Now, if you are in the genie bottle, it is only due to you wanting to hang out in it yahoo!No longer will you have some ex on a pedestle healing over him.
I can’t say my “poor loser” feeling for mine was not a bit smug and thus, kind of snarky, but honestly it was really kind of pitying “poor insecure arrogant him”…from a distance;) Believe me, kind is probably pushing it…lol
Yes it is nice to feel that contentment huh? I sometimes worry that I won’t ever have a passionate kiss again, or fall in love again, but I never worry, lately, about feeling that gut wrenching scared- of- being alone- feeling…it does not seem to arrive.
I think that you need to build a terrace or porch on your bottle, so that you have enjoy it and now sit outside on occasion and watch the world go by, enjoying your new found equinamity…(sp?) Hugs!!!!
so on point.” he was so severely limited and so limited .. yep..relationships impossible… I DO BELIEVE UNLESS THEY ON THEIR OWN ARE WILLING ADDRESS THEIR ISSUES…IT IS FUTILE….
CC, babe. I want to knit a frickin’ blanket for you or something, I’m so happy for you!!!! That’s the endgame for all of us, isn’t it? SO GLAD you are there!!!! It comes in and out of focus with me, but I see the finish line myself. Good to see you waiting on the other end with a smile on your face!
dq-
good suggestion, maybe i will put steps out front… and you’re right, that feeling has been gone…and the feeling of being abandoned for no particular reason. i’m not always great, but i’m ok, and its amazing. hugs back!!!
michele-
exactly. and he wasn’t.
revs!
i would gratefully accept that blanket. and yes, that finish line went in and out of focus (great metaphor, btw) for a loooong time. and then…i don’t know. i just kept working away doing everything i was, and we all are, doing, and my perspective adjusted a little and POP! there it was. and i think i didn’t trust it for a while, i mean, why would i? but there it is! *does the touchdown dance*
smoooch!
Dawn,
Totally. That’s exactly what I’m getting at… if you are in a committed relationship and thinking about trading up for something better looking or smarter or whatever, you’re basically a shallow piece of work. And you shouldn’t be in relationships. You shouldn’t be committing to anything heavier than a one-night stand.
ACs that I’ve known have used putdowns to make me feel bad about myself, to kibosh the chances of true intimacy. But that’s something else. That’s someone who’s got intimacy and commitment issues and will repeat that behaviour again and again, no matter how wonderful their target is.
Natalie,
“it’s actually us that makes the so-called rejection far bigger than what it may actually be by rejecting ourselves through the act of making a judgement about us based on a perspective gained from a shady experience or just from flat out dodgy thinking.”
Thank you so much for this idea. I am guilty of rejecting myself, and my values. First based on my dad’s dodgy thinking/treatment of me, and then by engaging in shady behaviour with the exMM, and thereafter judging myself to be a person who is not capable of living with integrity. I am not that person any more and it feels SO GOOD!!!
James
Its true, women do it too. I did. Thankfully he dumped me!
CC. I’ve never experienced such a kind, compassionate group of women. The heartfelt stories, the genius analogies,comparisons, advice, empathy/sympathy, joy sharing and laughter through our heartache and tears is invaluable and irreplaceable. I love BR! And you are just as witty and funny as you are a smart woman who can quickly decipher situations and know the right thing to say. Although we’ve met, I know we would immediately click. Love, Tink.
tinkytink-
and, if i may?
all this love? from all these beautiful souls? that’s what you must give yourself, from yourself, every day, baby. every single day.
i’d love that click, i really would.
xox
Rev, don’t beat yourself up about attractiveness comparison. You were illustrating a point & the point WASN’T your level of attractiveness, it was that he was choosing a new person over you & this WASN’T the reason. It’s ok. I get it.
Next, I don’t agree that we do anything to ‘attract’ EUM’s or AC’s. This is a quaint pop psychology notion, but a load of victim blaming codswallop! AC’s, especially, are simply, just out there! They play their game randomly, on ALL COMERS. Then, they sit back & see who bites. And you know who does? (Yes, those most likely to, tend to have certain personality traits). Generally speaking, they are people with high levels of empathy, & kindness, who are also vulnerable in one way or another. By all means I encourage people to research this, as you will learn, I speak the truth!
Otherwise, you’re SO right about those disappearing houdini’s! LOL I’ve lost a lot of respect for men in general. It would take a pretty damned special one to ever get my attention again! LOL
Teachable, girl, you rock. I just love your comments. Can I be a “Teachable groupie”? Lol. 🙂
First, thanks for understanding my point about attractiveness. Yeesh, I did feel bad about that shallow comment, but good to know it was received in the right way.
Second, I totally hear ya and agree with the vast net that these AC fishermen cast in the sea of women. Sorry, didn’t mean to “blame the victim” as that’s definitely NOT my MO. I guess I was just trying to say that we needed to learn to drop them on their asses sooner rather than later, though this doesn’t point to any deficiency or “Law of Assclown Attraction” that we are sending out into the universe. 🙂 Glad to hear we’re on the same side with that, ’cause I don’t buy into that bullsh**t either.
Just so you know, my dear, I have been reading all of your comments over the past few days, and the only thing that stops me from commenting in greater detail is the fact that I’ve been too busy. But I’m out here, listening. Sympathizing. Laughing and nodding my head. And rooting for you! 🙂
Laurie.
When he was saying those things, they were the BURNING, FLAMING red flags I was talking about. They mean RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN. Men say that CRAP expecting you to reply in the NEGATIVE. This sneaky tactic gets you SIGNED UP to what they’re selling before you realise it’s snake oil.
Nat has a post on this. Sorry I don’t recall the title but she nailed it. Don’t feel bad. It’s happened to a lot of us. Just learn the lesson & watch for it next time.
To paraphrase Maya Angelou, ‘when someone tells you who they are are, believe them, the FIRST time.’
T xx
PS It’s SO all about them remember. Nat is really bang on with this post. It’s up to us not to take stuff on. This take’s time to process, & to let go of things or grieve sometimes, but life is lighter when we can centre ourselves with this belief. Thanks for the reminder Nat. I’m pretty bogged down atm with all this health & $ worries stuff. Any decent guy would prolly walk right on by me atm! Yikes!
James
We all reject people at times: if a guy is overweight (Big health issue!), lies about his appearence on line (really common), or hates my lifestyle and values, he’s gonna get rejected. We womyn are also turned off by poor appearance, manners, problem behavior same as men, we know it and move on immediately. The problem lies with folks that pursue you and continue to do so knowing damn well they don’t give a flying @#$% for you because they get validation, an ego stroke, attention. It’s OK, if you hate my life, hate educated women, hate native womyn, hate eco-socialist kick a$$ chicks. Don’t use me as a stepping stone till you find who you’re really looking for or as a place holder until your OW gets back into town. That’s not just rejection, it’s outright cruelty. Be honest with yourself and others from the start and no one gets hurt.
Love this, && thank you, I just found your site, and its like a heaven sent! I’ve been in the process of trying to get over and move on from my ex, your articles are amazing and are helping me already.
Stick with us Sylvia. Natalie is a godess sent to show us the path to EUM free enlightenment!
Magic words for my eyes and ears, I love you Nat :), did you know that?
Thanks Rev. I feared I hadn’t added a playful wink & nod as I ought to have when I made my comment about the non existant law of attracting an AC. I didn’t mean to sound harsh. I’m glad you didn’t take me the wrong way. I can be a tad blunt! (& when it comes to AC’s I do tend to call a shovel a spade!) LOL
Otherwise, I sometimes feel like THE most messed up person on BR! Quite rediculous I know! Why? Because it’s not a bloody competition for goodness sakes! Who was.reminding herself not to compare herself to others not to long ago??!!
Sheesh! Slow bloody learner I am here & not living up to.my
namesake at ALL I’m afraid! I also have no desire whatsoever for anyone to reply & say, ‘no you’re not teach’, but I do genuinely feel like this! It’s really most unnerving! Where is this coming from I wonder? I know my life is pretty much in the toilet right now but I’m metaphorically safely ensconed in Cc’s genie bottle & I can’t do much better than that. What am I expecting of myself I wonder? To be levitating & perhaps even walking on water? It truely beggars belief!!
Someone’s self esteem here appears to be in the genie bottle toilet! It would appear it was all tied up in my work & academic endeavours (both of which are now gone until goodness knows when due to health problems)! It was also tied up in being able to provide for myself financially (also gone). My health is also gone. Teachable is now declaring herself code red! This means I have no clue & shall simply face each day as it comes & hope for the best.
Teachable, babe. I don’t need a wink and nod, so don’t worry. It takes a lot more than that to rile me up. I wasn’t upset in the least. I agree with you, and I’m glad to see your fighting spirit against the baddies of the world. Here, you can sit by me. 🙂
As for the rest of your comment, it was actually very helpful to me. Do you know why? It was yet another example of seeing someone who is obviously intelligent and empathetic and right on the money with her insights, and seeing this person undervalue herself. The more I see examples of this in the people that I admire, though it’s unfortunate that they feel that way, the more I think maybe I’m not seeing myself clearly either, or valuing myself. And that’s helpful TO ME. Look, I’m not gonna blow smoke up your a**. Do I know if you’re “the most screwed up person on BR”? No, how could I know that for sure? How could anyone? What criteria would we even USE to quantify that statement? All I know is that your advice and thoughts are sound, and your heart is in your words. There’s something in that. Don’t undervalue that, Teachable.
Baking a yummy big chocolate cake to celebrate Cc reclaiming her soul. I hope I can get there one day. I’ve forgiven Mr Oops He Died Just Like I Predicted Was Gunna Happen, but am so far from joyous it’s not funny. I’m lonely & sad. I’ve lost my career, am about to drop out of uni, dealing with serious illness which keeps me bedridden a lot of the time & financial worries which may mean losing the house (yet to be ascertained). And yes. Whatisface died. I’m trying hard to look on the bright side though. There’s a beautiful flower in bloom that sways in the breeze outside my bedroom window & I have good support in place. I’m grateful for those things. There really ARE people MUCH worse off. 🙂
*rubs Teachable’s head*
My mom always tells me, when I’m all riled up and/or sad about something, “Take five minutes. Say to yourself, ‘Okay, I’m going to take five minutes and not worry about this thing that makes me sad. I can come back to it after the five minutes, but I’m taking those five minutes off.’ Then extend that to 10 minutes. 15. 30.” It used to irritate me when she’d say that, but it does help. It’s always those simple things that save us, isn’t it?
I’ve been NC for about 3 months now.
He added me on FB, don’t know why I accepted, but I deleted him a day after. He messaged me and never responded to my reply. It kind of hurt and I took it rather personally.
But I’m rather disgusted, he’s moved to another area for school (more loan debt for him) and is “doing amazing” because of a new social scene and such. He’s started a club primarily aimed at men to help them with women and get “an elusive in” with them…a club to attract more females to events and give advice I suppose.
It’s disgusting, the girl he was with while he was with me has “liked” it and so has his new squeeze at school as well. He goes around on adventures with whoever his girl he’s hanging out with and takes pictures of them and posts it online.
I’m obviously still taking it hard and personally.
But wtf? A club to help men get an elusive in with women?! He never wanted a relationship.
What’s his problem?
Anyone have a take on this?
Gina,
I have no idea what he’s doing but it does sound kind of lame, just chasing women, I guess he’s got nothing better to do. Building up a harem perhaps. The best thing for you perhaps is to pay no attention, and try to avoid getting this kind of information? Personally it would drive me insane if I was able to monitor the exAC movements. It would make me feel bad about myself too because it really isn’t any of my business. The Internet is terrible for this,in ye olden days you broke up with someone and never saw them again unless by chance. Now there’s all this information temptingly available and it makes it much harder for you to move on.
Yeah, the whole internet thing makes it harder to get over someone. But I’m not stalking him, it’s just something I saw when I re-added him for a day. It hurts, honestly. I’m trying to really take NML’s advice here and not take everything personally. It just doesn’t make sense how he doesn’t reply after inquiring. I guess when I told him I was doing really well and my own updates he realized that I was moving on.
My take on this bit about the club is that he’s smelled the big and quick bucks the PUA-industry commands; he may have spent some of his own bucks on it and now is feeling confident enough to do some selling himself. “Elusive in” is PUA-vocabulary, they sniff at commitment, they are all about effing women up just for the sake of the exercise.
Teddie,
I don’t get the club thing, it’s kind of disgusting that something like that exists. But what’s worse is that the girls that he is going on adventures with and taking pictures of don’t mind that he’s doing a club like this.
Before I told him I wanted no part of the situation of being an option…he didn’t want a relationship. So I don’t know why he’s offering this “matchmaking service”
I’m probably older than most of you here but I’m here to tell you breakup pain is the same at any age. Two weeks ago my long distance bf of 11 years decided we had nothing in common…and then a few days later said he had started dating someone else. Only he forgot he hadn’t ended our relationship apparently. It’s tough because even though we are long distance we talked each and every day. The only reason I had not moved where he is is because he is on the road for work 10 months out of the year. This year I have retired and was finally going to at least go out for a month or so to see this house he’s been working on.
So now he starts seeing his massage therapist who just so happens to already live there and has SO much in common with him.
The NC is tough after this much time. I haven’t physically seen him since May. I go from crying to so angry. I’m almost 60 and didn’t think I’d be going thru this at this age. I actually had a crush on this guy in high school, we parted and then got together thru Classmates. I thought it was “meant to be”….I guess nothing ever is.
I think my friends are sick of listening to me so finding this site and reading here has helped me thru today at least!
I agree with you there that nothing is ever really meant to be With Men. Men are innately selfish. If they stick to someone for love…it’s just because of the convenience and comfort that the arrangement brings to them. Please think of other beautiful things that life has to offer. Sometimes… a jerk of this kind can bring with some other rainbow…some other blessing…perhaps a discovery…within yourself. I went thru similar pain and it pushed me to pay attention to my inner voice to start writing. A gift I always had but never did anything. Today..I am absolutely happy once again. You have retired so theres plenty of wonderful amazing stuff waiting to be done.
Prayer and Faith in God are wonderful at such junctures of life and help us deal with the loneliness more effectively. Then there are Angels like Natalie…who have dedicated their lives to help us see things a clearer perspective in such crises. Please do NOT give up hope. Regards, Divya
Wildangel, I haven’t got much to offer in the way of wisdom, but I’d like to offer you support and encouragement. Keep coming back here, I do and it has worked wonders. Hugs to you xxxx
CC. Just got your reply. Glad you saw my comment.
(Smooooch).
Thanks Rev. I’m aware I’m not seeing things clearly atm. I have been diagnosed with depression & am being treated for that. All things considered I’m sure I MUST be doing better than I feel, but I’m so physically ill, it’s not an easy time to see anything clearly. Perhaps I will just suspend judgement of
myself right now. Clearly, I’m not in my right frame of mind. Lots of self love needs to be slathered on here. Time for me to just keep trying to practice that. It’s not a strength so the opportunity to practice it is something to be grateful for. After all, I aint ever gunna learn it or get better at it if I don’t practice! Thankyou for your kind words. You’re a switched on chickybabe. Stay on your path. I admire your journey. X
Teach,
Okay, who’s a** do you want me to kick? ‘Cause I’ll do it for you. Really. 🙂
Depression hurts. End of story. I’ve had regular bouts of it since my childhood. I know what it looks like. If I could kick its a** for you, I would do it in a heartbeat.
Stay here with us. Rest your body. There’s no reason to give up on your goals. Work on them from the inside out. It’s amazing how much the Western civilization puts emphasis on harried movement, when all wisdom tells us that we get what we want and need through calm, focused, persistent action. That’s your gift right now, because that’s all you can do. That’s your tool, and ironically it’s the right one for the job. I’m jealous as sh**t. 🙂
Teachable … for what its worth, I know you’re hurting, but you actually seem more real, getting to the core of who you really are, which is why we are here. Its a painful, scary journey, and sometimes we have to lose our shit (I lost a bf, job, and my mom, so to speak …all blessings, really) to get there, but its the greatest journey in the world. Peace to you.
Hello Natalie.
I’m sorry but I don’t understand some of your last paragraph. “When you can step back enough to see why this has really happened (and not put it all on you), you can lift the weight of it off you and move forward.” I got rejected recently. I get that it’s not all about me and he could just not want a relationship with any woman but this doesn’t seem to help me right now. It still hurts that he rejected me and not knowing why he rejected me drives me insane. Maybe he’s a commitment phobe. But thinking that it could be all about his stuff doesn’t help. I still feel hurt and I still want to know why he rejected me. Is there a step that I’m missing here?
I like when you said “Focusing on rejection causes you to feel that you’ve had them take away something that you could have had”, that made a lot of sense to me. It does feel like that. Do you mean by this that I/one could never have had a successful relationship with this man and the rejection is just proof of this? That the relationship was just flawed and couldn’t have worked?
Thanks for this latest post.
@Kerry @James
I hear what you are saying about those that use people. I know that relationships don’t always work out and that there may be a stronger connection with someone else, but keeping someone around for your own selfish agenda is just plain wrong. I had dated someone for sometime who ended things with me because he “wasnt ready”. But he sure did keep me in his pocket with daily calls, promises, talk of therapy, future faking. When I finally put my foot down he said that he met someone and wanted to see where that was going to go. I am pretty sure that he knew that I wasn’t the one all along if he could just up and start up a new relationship with someone else. And as one poster mentioned, those that bite are usually those that are kind and empathetic…as I was to him and his situation. It is a terrible thing to use somebody because once the AC picks up and leaves, we are left behind to pick up the pieces of what they (unfairly) broke. To rebuild ourselves and be able to trust again. Its a terrible, unnecessary,thing to do to somebody. Good luck to you all in your recovery.
Yes, when I write down the list of disappointments they all seem to be about him. And I likely accepted a lot of shady behaviour because of his circumstance. How can you not feel somewhat accountable when your partner has moved on for someone else and doesn’t these shady things? Like a guy that says he is “not ready” and acts like an AC during your relationship then moves on to be open and available to someone else. How can you feel like YOU aren’t the one being rejected?
New Lady,
I think the bigger question is: why do you care that an assclown rejected you? Isn’t that something to be thankful for? The lesson that I’m learning from my relationship with my ex is not that I screwed up something good (which is where I’m tempted to go). The lesson that I’m learning is: why did I keep seeking a rejection retraction from an assclown–from someone *I* don’t accept. And I think the answer lies in my own ego and my own fears of abandonment. Investing time in dealing with these issues is much more productive then chasing validation from an ass.
If you think he’s an assclown, clearly you are rejecting who HE is. Why should that only work one way? My ex has every reason to reject me–I reject who he is!
And how do you know he’s not doing shady things? For six months I didn’t know that my ex was doing “shady” things behind my back, and I was in a relationship with him! There is no way you can know what’s going on between the two of them.
It is very difficult for someone with a character deficiency to change. EXTREMELLY difficult. Also, the idea that someone can go from emotionally unavailable assclown one day to an emotionally healthy and available person the next day just isn’t the case.
Emotionally unavailable people get married too (happened to me!). They don’t find some woman and *change* for her because she is “worth it.” Most often, they marry because they find someone who’s willing to put up with their crap and allows them to be the driver in the relationship. But ultra-compliant, no-boundaries wives get screwed too. And then, when the cracks begin to show, the EUM will be chasing the next shiny object in his way.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet.
I’m struggling painfully with what this article talks about. I understand it but my feelings just wont catch up yet 🙁 . its been 2 silent months since i completely cut all contact with a textbook assclown and nightmare boyfriend that i was hook-line-sinnnnker for. it was absolutely the right thing to do, my life is healthier and happier day to day as a result.. Im so glad i got the courage to do it for myself. But in the last couple of weeks my passing thoughts of him have become daily thoughts of him. im smacking my wrist furiously but i just wonnnt letttt gooo!!!
i MISS the feelings he made me feel, I see him in my head constantly grinning and making me giggle and i miss the fire and the excitement and what it felt like being with him. When it was good it was electric even if it was only for a few hours a week. i know, how bad is that? I dont miss the day to day relationship, the brave face hiding tears and disappointment, the projection, the self-crushing madness. ugh argh! but…crazy it may be but i MISS the feelings he made me feel and i miss being that attracted to someone and feeling that desired back and it feels sad and painful that that whole story is now simply a black silence. nothing.i cant speak to him, i cant discuss anything with him…. not that it would be helpful but its the ‘can’t’ that is like a big fat hand in my face. He hasn’t tried to contact and im not going to contact so its just silence. over. nexxxxt.where do i put all of these feelings for the man i had short-lived wonderful highs with and the man i wanted him to be, they’re still there! i can’t make myself not feel and i cant seem to find the way to let go. *gulp* :'(
Oh Lucy, you said it yourself when you said you miss the way he made you feel. But only the good bits of course, and that was a tiny minority of your experience with him, right? Natalie says something about how much misery does it cost you to get your drop of happiness? IT is the way you felt, wanted, validated, coupled up and loved up that you miss. You do not miss him as he made you feel awful the rest of the time. You do not want him back in your life ( repeat that a few times out loud) you just want him to want and love you the way he did in the beginning/on a good day or teh wayyou wanted and loved him. This is NEVER going to happen.If it helps at all, my ex eum was just the same, our good times were madly good and the rest of the time I felt undervalued and low priority. I finally ended it, only to let him back in as a friend and guess what, I wish he had never called me as I am now back to square one, or even worse. The man you wanted him to be is out there but it isn’t him. You know this. sending you hugs.
Victorious,
Thank you so much for your love and wise words! wiiiise 🙂 I’m going to re-read what you’ve said several times today. And you’re so right, i miss the feelings and the scenario of being ‘in’ a couple and sharing love and passions with ‘someone’….and i suspect that after a couple of months as difficult as it is to admit, im a little lonely with noone to love in my life. as for him… how can i possibly miss him?? I must still be a little twisted and blinded as he wasn’t a good guy to me at all, he crushed me and made me feel like i was going bonkers. I hope i can un-pin all of these loving and longing feelings from him soon as it hurts big style like cold-turkey withdrawal from a drug addiction. eww. the silence feels so un-just too. Time and positivity and learning….and the awesome support from Natalie and all the people on Baggage Reclaim. It’s just helped SO much, not just to soothe but to HEAL through learning, big difference.
Thanks again Victorious, needed to hear your words, bless you
xxxx
Thanks Lucy. I know it is hard. I need to reread my words myself. Been NC for the second time now for 11 days. It is agony of course but it will pass.
One of the things that has helped me on my path to wisdom is to simply be grateful for the happiness I did have with the ex. Even though it was short-lived and is now gone forever, it DID happen. No one can take that from me, and it can’t be lost. It’s hard to be grateful and miserable at the same time, so the more gratitude I have, the happier I am and the more at peace I feel. It’s not that I’m grateful to HIM (which I’m not), I’m just grateful in general to have experienced moments of love and joy and utter well-being. This is a gift from the universe that I don’t want to ruin by wallowing in endless resentment and feelings of loss. If anyone has found a better way to get through the pain of an awful relationship to healing/self-love/understanding/wisdom/forgiveness/acceptance, etc. I’m eager to hear it.
There was once a little girl who was quite shy, she met a boy who wanted to become her friend. She didn’t like the look of him but eventually he grew on her. They became very close friends and had lots of good times but gradually she suspected he wasn’t as nice as he pretended. When she found this she gradually retreated and thought less of him. When he realised this he became even more not nice and eventually after trying to keep the friendship together more on her part than his because she had become used to his company etc and was afraid to become alone again they had lots of quarrels usually made up by her efforts but one day when she was doing him a favour and helping him she asked that he just do a little bit and he turned nasty and accused her of nagging etc and so that was the last quarrel they had. He went home and she never heard from him again and she didn’t contact him as she would have before. So the friendship is now over. Although she knew he was no good for her anymore the shy little girl hoped in her heart that he would miss her and come to see her but alas she found out that he didn’t think much of her at all. For a while she was very sad and disappointed but she is getting better now and learning to do things for herself again she has also realised that she is worth much more than the shallow friendship he was offering, so for now she is without a friend but is learning to be happy again and to take more care of who she allows to be her friend.
This little story took minutes to write but spanned nine years in reality obviously they are not little girl and boy either, they were lovers but I just wrote in very simple terms the story of an awful lot of heartache from which I am now recovering and never going back to.
Do you see the little girl, do you recognise her are you sad for her. Not to worry she will become strong again and maybe meet a nicer little boy if only in her dreams.
There is very little punctuation and grammar because I just quickly wrote as I thought. If you are like this little girl I wish you strength to recover too.