If you’ve ever dealt with somebody who borrows money from you but doesn’t repay it or even asks you for more money, then you not only have an idea of how damn frustrating it is to be guilted by someone who’s messing you around but also what it’s like to be in a casual relationship that you didn’t agree to.
Jane thinks that she and Peter are friends. When he asks to borrow money from her with assurances about how and when he will pay it back, including suggesting that he will pay interest on top, she thinks it’s a no-brainer. They agree that he’ll pay it back each week and at first, this is what happens. At one point, even claimed that he would pay it back earlier all in one go.
But then it becomes every couple of weeks. Then a month and so on, until Jane asks him what’s going on. He waffles on about how busy he’s been and how he’s got a few things going on that he needs the money for. Instead of paying it back as agreed, it’s now going to take longer (and he’s spending the money elsewhere). He tells her that he’d wanted to tell her but was worried about how she would react.
Peter doesn’t pay her back as agreed, and it drags out. When she puts her foot down about lending him any more money, he says that she’s being impatient. He claims that she’s judging him unfairly. Eventually, she realises that she’s being neither of these things and that she’s been more than fair. Quite simply, she’s just not obliged to continue lending money.
Him, for instance, calling her a “bad friend” for being unwilling to always bail him out financially, is not only unfair and untrue but it neglects to take into account where he is enjoying the benefits of her investment and good nature while only giving the bare minimum in return. It’s a bit like taking out a loan and agreeing to pay that back plus interest but only paying back the interest. Sure, you’re giving something, but it’s not what was agreed.
Peter and Jane go on several dates over the course of a few weeks. He talks about how smitten he is with her and how he can’t wait to introduce her to his family and friends and take her here, there and everywhere. He calls her his girlfriend and agrees that they’re in a relationship. At first, everything seems hunky-dory. Then she notes that there’s a shift in how attentive he is. They’re not really spending much time together since it became ‘official’, leaving her feeling more than a little confused. She made it very clear that she wasn’t in the market for a casual relationship.
Keen to make sure that there isn’t any ambiguity or misunderstanding in their new relationship, she checks in with him to ensure they’re still on the same page. He insists that everything is OK and goes on about how ‘busy’ he is. She tells him that it’s been feeling really casual. Although she’d be disappointed if he’d changed his mind, she’d prefer his honesty. He doubles down on his assurances and over the next couple of weeks, it’s like not-so-old Peter is back. And then things taper off again.
She feels used. Barely four months into the relationship and she calls time on their involvement. He calls her “impatient”, insisting that he had intended to be more available but that her “pressure” had caused him to have second thoughts. Jane doubts herself and worries that she’s scared away a “great guy” and that she’s going to wind up alone if she pushes the issue too much. So she tries again. She notes that Peter has lots of time for other things, just not her. Less than two months later, Peter admits that he’s not ready for a committed relationship. It turns out that this is his pattern.
If one party cannot follow through on what they’ve claimed they’ll be and do in the early stages of a relationship, it’s unlikely that the other will see the projected or desired outcome.
In casual relationships, which are an oxymoron because no one wants or likes to be treated casually, someone always gets shortchanged. It might start out looking like a mutual agreement, but over time it becomes clear that one party is advancing their self-interest while calling it a “mutual” benefit.
But where so-called casual relationships are particularly problematic is where we didn’t agree to be in one in the first place and where the other party keeps making out that our senses are deceiving us. Gaslighting. We then look like a drama queen/king who doesn’t know how to go with the flow’. Suddenly we have trust issues or are demanding/needy. It’s a slippery slope to doubt and insecurity where we worry about having misstepped.
In the relationship scenario with Peter and Jane, it’s not that Peter wasn’t doing anything at all. His attitude and crumbs, though, meant that no real dent could be made into creating a relationship because he wasn’t investing.
Maybe he was waiting for that magic moment where the world would be perfect and he wouldn’t feel afraid of being vulnerable.
Maybe he only wanted to put a little into this relationship because he had a fear of missing out.
Perhaps he’s tight-fisted.
Maybe he was waiting for Jane to prove she was worth the investment’ by having her make all of the investment first. This isn’t possible, incidentally, as that’s not a relationship; it’s an audition.
Of course she was bound to feel uneasy and eventually resentful! She was doubting her own judgement and compromising herself so that he could feel OK with the illusion but also so that she would not have to deal with the discomfort of being more boundaried.
When someone says that we’re in a relationship but then behaves otherwise, we do have a right to question that. This is especially when, in some instances, the promises they’ve made effectively amount to obtaining goods by deception (Future Faking). It’s not about us being impatient or needy or whatever else we or they are throwing our way. It’s also not about us trying to ‘micro-manage’ the relationship.
If we agree to enter into a relationship with someone, it’s safe to have the expectation of them not just skimming the sex, ego stroke, shoulder to lean on or any other fringe benefits off the top while leaving out any investment of their true time, energy, effort and emotion that would help to co-create and forge a relationship.
When it becomes evident that they’re not in the same relationship we want to be in, we have a right to opt out. It’s never the right thing to stop listening to yourself in order to prioritise someone else’s feelings and needs. In a mutually fulfilling relationship, you can take care of them and take care of you too.
Your thoughts?
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Very well put. Since Ive been back in the dating pool and willing to stretch myself out of my (commitment issues) comfort zone I have found I have been given multiple opportunities to walk myself through boundaries and encouraging self talk despite some disappointing experiences. There are alot of unavailable men out here but I know there are available men too so I keep stretching. It is good to read these things.
It’s really pretty easy…people make time for people with whom they want to spend time. When I’m the one who makes contact and suggests we get together every time, I have a new boundary for that. It’s called the reciprocation rule. If I have reached out three times to their zero times; they are not reciprocating. Am I trying to find a new assclown? Nope.
Occasionally, they will get in touch after I have given up. Part 2 of the reciprocation rule is, if they finally make contact, do they ask to get together? If not, the assclown probably called just to make sure the hook was still in firmly enough to keep me dangling in the water.
I don’t react one way or the other. I give them no reason to justify pinning their wishy washy behavior on me.
😉
WOW! Karen. I needed to hear that! Thank you!
Me too. And thank you Natalie – as always you hit the spot just when I needed it. .
Wowzers…you just described my current “relationship” to a T!!!!
Omg Kayla what are you gonna do? I feel like there were a lot of solutions given and reassurance in the piece I hope and wish for you to have the strength to stand up for YOU??????????????????
Mine too:(
3 years in what was basically a ‘friends with benefits’ situation that I KNEW deep down, was going to be over in a nanosecond when he found his next victim. The trick, I believe, is to get the hell out as soon as you recognise the situation for all the things it isn’t, rather than living in denial. And when you DO leave, sever all contact and don’t let them come chasing after you, only to do it all again before dropping you like a hot brick for some perky young thing at running club!! Love and strength to anyone who recognises themself in ‘Jane’, kick the user into touch and make yourself available for something better!!
You’re so right Helen. I was that Jane, and two years on I am still ‘in recovery’. I’ll ge tthere one day. When I’m not paying for my eror of jusgement in £££ XX
Yep, I am Jane and like you Helen, it was friends with benefits with future faking, complicated by the fact that he is married.
About two years ago he sought me out at work to wish me happy birthday, but as I was off that day and he left a post it note. The office assistant told me the next day that she thought he had a crush on me and that she had told him to invite me to a coffee. I e-mailed him to thank him for the birthday note and he suggested coffee. I accepted met him for coffee, saw a wedding ring on his finger and thought to myself ‘phew, he’s married, he’s asking me for coffee to be friendly, and not interested me in that way’. I became relaxed more and more as we met for coffee again and again. The coffees turned into lunches. Looking back, he would stare at me at times with that soppy, infatuated look.
One day, he offered to give me a lift home. At my front door he asked if I was going to invite him in for a cup of tea. I was going to anyway and said yes. We chatted and then as he left he hugged me. The next day I received a text saying he had really wanted to kiss me and should he have. I replied probably not.
We continued to meet for coffees and have lunches together. He would always pay me compliments and say things that started to hint at more than friendship.
He pursued me for a whole year before I finally couldn’t resist him and fell for his charms. We began an affair which started about two years ago. During this time he used to tell me how beautiful I was, that I could trust him and that he would look after me.
Around May this year he told me had decided to leave his wife. His reason was that he was bored and that she wanted to spend time with her grandchildren. Now I did not immediately think that this meant he wanted to be with me properly, even though he would drop things into the conversation like why hadn’t he met me 27 years ago and ‘what would your mother say if you turned up on her doorstep married, because you had eloped?’.
Fast forward to September, he started to be less communicative. I thought it was because he was getting a hard time with his wife – the divorce was to her totally out of the blue. In October while he was visiting me I found he was seeing another woman. He was texting her while I sat right next him and I could see a text from her from which it was obvious that they had slept together.
I confronted him and he admitted he was seeing another woman. He then said ‘I’m a s*&t, you can shout at me, scream if you want to’. I didn’t but said that he clearly wanted to be with her and he should concentrate on her. His response was that he was not with anyone. He made a quick exit. Anyway I went to see him at his work place a couple of days later. The office door was shut and he was on his mobile. He didn’t see me through the narrow window, so I hung back thinking he was dealing with a work call and would hang up shortly. Then I heard how he was talking and just knew he was speaking to the new woman. I heard him mention his wife and that how things were crap and how he wished they could just run away together. That sounded familiar – he had said the same to me in the past. Then I heard him say I love you, and asking whether she had time for a coffee at 8. So obviously someone from work. After a while I had heard enough, so I went up to the door and knocked. He motioned me to come in although he was still on the phone. He calmly said ‘a work colleague has just come to see me so I’ll catch you later ’.
I said after Saturday it didn’t feel right to leave things as they were and I wanted to know if he was OK. He said he was fine and asked if I was OK. I said yes, and I said I just wanted him to be honest and truthful. So he told me he started seeing this woman about 6 months ago. I asked whether he had strong feelings for her and he said at this moment in time yes. So I said you’ll be shacked up with her soon then. He said it was complicated because she was married and there were kids involved. I said but you ARE sleeping with her and he replied that this had only been recently. He held my hand and said ‘I’m a s&*t’. I asked why and he replied ‘I should be sweeping you off your feet and taking you away from all this’. And I replied that doesn’t make you a s&*t, you think you’re a s&*t because you’re dumping your wife, have been seeing me and are seeing another woman.
I asked what made him go after her and he said she’s nice, pretty. I asked if she was from the same building and he said no, she was someone he met outside of work. A lie. I know he has met with her for coffees and lunches – used the same technique as on me – start with coffees and a chat, then lunches and then eventually sleeping with her.
If I hadn’t found out about this other woman, would he have carried on seeing me? And if things didn’t work out with her I would have been none the wiser I guess – the fallback girl, as well as the overlap.
The stupid thing is I slept with him again a couple of weeks ago. May be it was for proof that he doesn’t really love this other woman. How sad is that?!
It hasn’t helped me mentally though. I know he is no good, but thinking of him with her eats me up. I am hurting like hell and the pain is beyond tears.
shoo, this is painful, I hope you gather enough strength to walk out. We all make such mistakes-the key is not going back there. I’ve made some crazy mistakes in the past-similar and worse than yours. God’s grace erased that dark horrible past-I am sure you’ll be over that too…
Thank you Sims,
I am trying to gather strength from friends and keeping myself busy socially but this is not always possible. And anyway it is at 3 am when I am wide awake that the anxiety and panic really hits.
Some days are ok, but others like today I am shaking like a leaf!
Heartbroken,
I’ve been there too. The AC upgraded his FWB to girlfriend and at the same time upgraded me from platonic ‘best friend’ to FWB. Out of desperation for validation that after all that flirting and cuddling, he really did desire me, I stupidly bit his arm off. The euphoria and relief I felt that I hadn’t been imagining it was palpable.
The relief only sustained me momentarily. After less than two weeks I couldn’t do it anymore and called it off. He says he’s quite happy to keep seeing me, even though he now has a girlfriend. In my irrational mind it consoled me that he doesn’t truly love her. Thing is, he still didn’t ‘choose’ me and it doesn’t make him love me. However, it is a consolation as it proves that he can’t love anyone in the way I want to be loved.
So don’t beat yourself up over sleeping with him. It does help your recovery to know he doesn’t truly love anyone and that makes it much easier to let go.
Lara,
I can totally see why you couldn’t do it any more – because you were second best. The fact that he still didn’t choose you and didn’t love you must have hurt. That he thinks you were ok with being his FWB and not considerate of any feelings you had must have really hit it home how much of an AC he is.
Were my soon to be divorced MM to turn up at my place now, knowing that he has been with his new woman recently – I don’t think I could be with him anymore – a big turn off, especially when it now feels like he thinks I’m desperate for it/need it and therefore doing
me a favour.
Heartbroken, you’re not alone. Plenty of people here feel your pain, and know exactly how much it hurts to be in such a one-sided situation. Only you have the power to recognise when life is trying to do you a massive favour by waving all the red flags at you all at once! I’m not judging, as I’ve spent so much of my life in denial it’s ridiculous; but please, take comfort in the knowledge that you can move past this guy, and take better care of yourself in future. Wishing you real love and all the joy that comes with it… so I hear, anyway! 😉 x
Helen,
I take comfort from your words.
There were doubts in my head, but I gave him the the benefit of the doubt.
I have my eyes open now and see that he will never be faithful to any woman. He will target a woman, use her and discard her once he has a new target lined up. He is interested in the thrill of the chase.
OMG. Please don’t sleep with him again and push through NO CONTACT, for your own well being and sanity.
These guys must have some kind of playbook! I am an older senior woman, married and was wooed the same way by an older married man. First it was coffee and him telling me how he misses love, affection and sex because his wife stopped sleeping with him after she turned 60. They actually met each other at age 8 and have 3 children and 4 grandchildren. He has lots of money and they live a very nice lifestyle.
I did not feel attracted to him at first, I just felt his energy trying to engulf me. Then he started telling me how great I am, touching my arm….these things I miss in my marriage….long story short, I never did sleep with him or even kiss him, but fell emotionally dependent and loved the attention and friendship. Lunches, coffee, texting, emailing, secret phone calls…..this went on for two years. He strongly pushed me for more…..sex, but I was able to refuse and keep those boundaries.
A couple of months ago I googled: Wants to have his cake and wants to eat someone else’s. Natalie’s essay popped up about emotional cake. It was like lights and sirens going off. I knew I had to CUT all CONTACT. It was and is so hard to not send a little email or text, but it is the best thing I have done. I have been reading her books and reading her blog. This has been a revelation to me. Even at this age I could go through this emotional turmoil, funny really! I never had any desire for any other man the whole 35 yrs I have been married!
I am not here to solve that guy’s lack of sex in his marriage. I am here to be a good wife to my husband and to be true to myself and my God. I want to be authentic and not some used up piece of pleasure for some man that has a difficult marriage.
Go through the No Contact plan and you will feel much better about yourself and your life. You deserve better!
Brenda,
So glad you were able to resist sleeping with the MM. I gave in to my MM because I was in a vulnerable state, craving affection. It felt like he really cared. Now I am not sure whether he really did, whether it was all lies.
I am currently feeling angry – at the way he has acted and treated me.
I am spending a lot of time at the moment with questions running through my head like why did he do that, how could he do that, is he saying the things to to her that he said to me. It’s eating me up and I know I need to stop.
He called last night and we were talking about my brother who is getting divorced because his wife was cheating on him. I said to MM that my brother deserved better as his wife has treated him appallingly throughout their marriage. And MM replied that so did I (deserve better). I know in my mind I deserve better but why did he say that? To make himself feel better?
I’m hundred percent sure that he slept with his new woman on Monday at his new place. He has moved out of his marital home and into a rented place over the weekend. And he went to lunch with her yesterday. Knowing that is a turn off – that he as demoted me because something shiny and new has appeared on the horizon, that he spends his time thinking of her and wants to be with her. That is what will stop me making the mistake of sleeping with him again.
I just can’t believe the way he acts – no remorse over hurting his wife, me, or that he is ruining another marriage.
The No Contact is hard. I know I need to do it. The less I know what he is up to the less it can hurt me, but I think I may need counselling or therapy as I am not in a good way.
Heartbroken,
he is not doing you a favour by sleeping with you. He is taking advantage of you, AND to you it feels like a favour because it validates you momentarily and makes you feel “still good for him”, desirable, beautiful, loved. Believe me, you ARE desirable and beautiful, you’re good for any man who could give you something real. But you need validation right now because you’re in pain (I know what it is) and therefore need him like you would need a drug.
Just to say, men in general don’t do “favours”. They do what they want. Surely he enjoys the sex, but he probably also feels guilty for using you (which doesn’t excuse him, but all this “I’m a shit” thing is just guilt crap). As for love, how can you tell if he loves someone if he gets into such a mess? He started off an affair with you, and even with the new woman he started something actually before he moved out and whilevhe was with you. You see, he may be attractive and it may feel like he is the love of your life, but it’s NOT healthy, it’s a drug effect, because it’s something very damaging to you that you desperately need at the moment. Something that makes you feel anxious and im pain CANNOT be good.
I’ve been in something similar recently, had sex with an ex who openly told me he might fall in love with someone else soon. To me sleeping with him was comforting and validating me, I felt pretty, even loved (actually he even dropped a couple of “I love you”s, which for all I know are sheer fondness but he then told me he was not in love with me anymore). That warmth, all that intimacy (just physical, I guess), felt so good. But then I’d feel anxious, afraid he may be seeing someone else, afraid he might have changed his mind (about JUST sleeping with me?? Because there was little more than that!), afraid he might like me less etc. It’s insecurity and the seeking of comfort in a VERY crappy situation, which is actually toxic for your self-esteem.
Stopping seeing him and going No Contact wasn’t an easy decision, I second guessed myself all the time, as in “what if I’m missing out on The One”. But then I relied on my mum and some friends, and, especially, on what I felt deep down was right, on BR, focused more on myself, work, changed the routine a little and started doing some things I like (just little things, like doing stuff in the house, or watching a TV series), and it got better. I feel much more secure and more like myself, and ready to move on, even if it doesn’t feel great (why lie to you) that he “replaced” me (probably) with someone else. (Yeah, I still get a bit like that :)). But it is normal and it will pass.
Heartbroken, I just wanted to tell you that one day you will feel like changing your nickname to “GettingBetter”, and then, to something like “FeelingAliveAgain”. I feel your current pain and I wish I could give you a hug right now. But it WILL get better. A MM affair must feel really horrible, especially when you’re still in love AND he left his wife for someone else (the irony!!). But it’s not you, it’s him. It’s you to the extent to which you have chosen an unavailable relationship in the first place. You HAVE to know that your deserve MUCH BETTER.
Love,
Lucy
Lucy,
I read your reply and was in tears by the end.
You are right in that he is taking advantage by sleeping with me. He is having his cake and eating it. To think it was a favour because he thinks I’m just interested in sex is more hurtful as that is not the case. Plus I don’t need a pity shag either.
Having said that you are right about the validation – feeling that I am still desirable, that if he has slept with me then he doesn’t really love the new woman. I can relate to your anxiety over you guy changing his mind about just sleeping with you. For me and probably you the logic there was that if they sleep with us they must care a little about us. But they are, as you rightly point out, using us.
my MM did speak to me recently and said ‘I know I’ve treated you like shit’. Again that word.
You know, I’m not sure if he does feel guilty. They are just words to placate and are easily spoken. I said why didn’t he just tell me about her and end it with me and his reply was ‘I still fancy you’! Cake and eating it…..??
He has told too many lies, and I can’t believe anything he says.
I agree it is not a healthy situation for me. I wake up at all sorts of hours in the night and have this knot in my stomach and feeling of such anxiety and pain. One minute I’m ok and then next I’m standing at the bus stop wanting to cry!
It is all so recent and is going to take a helluva long time to get to a healthy place. I have to train my mind to stop thinking about him with his new woman. Knowing he is calling her darling, telling her she is beautiful, amazing etc is what makes me feel physically ill. I then tell myself that this is his standard patter to get the woman, that he is deceiving her, lying to get his cake and being greedy seeking cake from elsewhere if he can get away with it, that if I had ended up with him I would always be wondering what he was up to as I would not be able to trust him (I always had a flag waving in the back of my mind, probably right from the start, but gave the benefit of the doubt), and would end up a total wreck.
Training the mind is one thing, training the heart is another. Just feel dumb for still having feelings for him despite everything.
I’m glad you have managed to get to a place where you are now ready to move on, and hope the moments when you feel crap about being replaced are not to difficult to deal with and are few and far between.
Keeping busy and support from you and everyone else here on BR is a massive help.
xxx
Heartbroken, I’m truly sorry that what I said about the favour sounded that way!! I precisely meant the opposite but maybe expressed it the wrong way. I just wanted to say that now that you’re deeply in love and miss him like hell and need him, and he DOESN’T (except he does “fancy you”, as he confessed to you), intimacy with him will probably feel reciprocally great for a while – in that you both enjoy it in the moment – but afterwards he’ll be all cool and calm and feeling fine and living his life, while you’ll be the one who misses that moment the most, because to you it’s something precious while for him it’s simply sex. By no means did I imply he’d give you “a pity shag” – I rather wanted to say that, actually, you’ve been giving him a lot more than he’s been giving to you (in your post-breakup encounter(s)), because after sleeping together in such a way, he’s had what he wanted while you feel like “ohhhh this is lovely”, but actually heartbroken and starved in the end. That is, by “favour” I was referring to the proverbial crumbs Natalie always talks about, while you might have felt it was a loaf at that moment. As for feeling desirable, I just felt we might have this in common in that when we are still attractive to our ex, it somehow “softens” the breakup and the whole BS, pumps up our self esteem a little, as during a breakup we usually feel like crap overall… and that’s why sleeping with our ex and listening to his “I like you”, “you’re beautiful”, etc. can be sort of soothing. But in reality we don’t need it, you don’t, you need to know that you are all that but don’t need an ex to tell you that 😉
I’m so sorry you were hurt but that part of the comment, I hope you’ll see it differently now. It was a bit similar with me, I felt like he was doing me a “favour” – in that, because I was so in love, being simply close to him was just so great, I don’t just mean sex, even just cuddling and a chat together – and I perceived it like a favour because he had made it very CLEAR that, besides all the good time he was having, he had other priorities, for instance, he’d sooner hang out with his friends (male) than meet me… which made me wonder, Do I need this kind of “favours”? Err…Nah! Also, for the record, I read Natalies 10 core breakup boundaries post, which kept me in place and helped me through the difficult days (and stopped me from making further attempts at FWB-ing my way back to the relationship). It added a lot to my self esteem and made me realise that I have some pride and that, in the end, I’m happier when I act accordingly, even if at the beginning I feel like saying “I love you” over and over again.
Heartbroken, I feel and sooo understand your pain :((( But it REALLY will pass. Hold tight to the knowledge that you deserve much better and that you’ve learnt something – it’s a positive experience in that you know what you do and don’t need 🙂
All my love,
Lucy
Dear Lucy,
I didnt take your comment the wrong way and wasn’t hurt. When I was saying to think of sleeping with me was a favour/giving me a pity, I meant that this was probably what he was thinking. That he is somehow doing me a favour/giving a crumb because he either feels sorry for me (which I doubt) or he thinks that sex is why I was with him and so he is obliging me. You’re right in that after he doesn’t miss me. He’s had his bit of fun.
When I first found out about his new woman and I asked him why he had gone after her, he said she was nice, pretty, but so are you. Well that doesn’t make it any better for me, but somehow he seems to think that if he says that it means that he didn’t go after her for her looks.
Yes he has other priorities now. Her and his friends etc. I feel like have been relegated to the bottom. I just feel so disrespected but paradoxically at the moment even if he texted, I would feel a whole lot better, although again I know that is just crumbs and it is better to go NC.
I’ve bought Natalie’s e-book on curbing obsession, as I think that’s what I’m doing – obsessing about him, thinking of him with her, etc., etc.
Thank you for you support and kind words Lucy.
They mean a lot and help.
Heartbroken
xxxx
Way to go, Heartbroken!! Great that you bought the book, and yes obsessing about him in the early stages is normal. You’re hurt and right now it’s the denial/grief phase I guess, but soon it may just feel good to grieve/think/vent just enough to finally feel tired of the whole thing and truly realise to what extent this was BS and how you want something nice and normal in your life. Yes, I don’t believe either that he was sorry for you. He simply likes you *too* (how fortunate of you! LOL), feels comfortable around you (why wouldn’t he), and thinks “Well, why not have them both now that he can – heyyyy that’s cool!” – in short, behaves now like the total A**clown he is. Plus he feels guilty, sure. And uffff, I had forgotten that the new girl was married, too! They’re like made for each other, you’re right. You know, it seems like, aside from always wanting to have his “cake”, he might have more reasons to be around a married woman who is unavailable anyway, closer to his nature, than you, who are wholeheartedly interested. There’s no future with him as he just doesn’t follow through (and is really an idiot, pardon me, from what he had been saying to you). Just flush. 🙂 xxxxx
Lucy,
Yes it was all BS. I think over the things he said and keep asking myself was it all lies? Just to get me?
No he definitely wasn’t sorry for me in that sense – I don’t think he feels compassion, especially knowing what he said about his wife when she had an op for breast cancer. He is utterly selfish.
Yes he liked me – for what he could get from me. I did wonder like you whether he has pursued the married woman as it is an easy out for him should he wish to end it with her.
Yep he is an utter idiot. I tried to stick to NC but fell off the wagon yesterday and texted him. However he has put the block on me again. That made me feel crap. So from now on, I know I mustn’t contact him as it only hurts me. He couldn’t give a toss about my feelings.
xxx
Well send him on his merry way, with his new married girl or without her. Who needs that. It’s crazy. Was it all lies? Who cares. You know what, no matter how it hurts right now, there’s no point in going over the good times (nobody can take that from you, but you need to (eventually) get over it, not build a shrine to it) – what he’s done to you is crap and what he’s still doing too. You have better things to do, even if it’s taking all the time you need to grieve the loss of this errr relationsh*t, and heal and try to get more in touch with yourself, with what you want and what you need. He blocked you? Really?? Well bye bye birdie!! As for his wife, it’s crazy, and nobody would envy the new girl either. She probably doesn’t expect it to be something real either. Maybe she knows what kind of rubbish she’s getting into. What happens is that people like him get exposed. That’s simply how it should be. Not that you’re less hurt, but the sooner you’re out of the crap, the sooner you will be able to start something new and available and healthy :)) xxxx
And you’re so right about “I still fancy you!” It was similar with me! You’re right that it does make us feel like he loves us and not the new girl. They really want the cake, lots of cake of they can have it. As Natalie says, well, why give the proverbial cake in the first place then. You know, though I feel better, I too still feel a bit skeptical and full of questions about his “I love you” when he knew he wasn’t getting back together with me. When I said it, I meant it. Did he? I don’t know. Maybe they do have “some” feelings for us too, or still. Only not that much, or whatever that is. I don’t know how it works, but then, again, it’s their problem. Some people in fact manage to keep two relationships for some convenience, somehow, no idea how, but they like to have both “options”. A different question is whether it is acceptable to us.
Lucy,
I didn’t take his saying ‘I still fancy you’ to mean that he loved me or cared for me. Just ‘I fancied you and wanted you and had you, and still want you because the sex is great’. He is busy bombarding his new woman with texts I’m sure and the fact that he slept with me makes me feela bit better about him being with her, not much better but a bit better because in my mind if he truly loved her he wouldn’t seek more with me. That’s how I see love any way.
As to whether they had feeling for us I guess we will never really know.
I agree that some people manage to keep two relationships for convenience. Especially MM that have affairs. And perhaps he would have carried on with two relationships – with and his new woman. Except he started to almost ghost me, and I found out. That has worked to his disadvantage, or may to his advantage in that because I know about her he doesn’t feel like he has to keep up a pretence with me.
xxxxx
Heartbroken, yes I understand how it makes us feel better! Same with me about his still wanting to sleep with me all the while he didn’t want to get back together. And you’re right that he can’t truly love her AND want more of you, it’s just not wanting to miss out/give up on either of you two.
About the ghosting you when he met that new girl, it’s like when they get excited with a new toy and leave aside the old one, but then they’re like “Heyyyy where is my toy??? I like it too!!” Anyway, from what you’ve been telling us, it has nothing to do with love. I know it hurts now, but it’s simply him getting exposed, so you know what you’re getting to avoid now. This is as far as he can get, while you have real feelings (even though the fact that you chose to bet on potential with an unavailable guy says that deep down you might still not fully believe that you deserve something *truly* real). Do you need *this* level of commitment? I don’t envy his wife. Or the new girl, but then she’s unavailable too and is choosing a temporary “escape” route. She probably doesn’t know about you, and that would be a nasty surprise. He’s probably lying to her (and no, that doesn’t mean he loves her). The fact that you know the truth is an advantage to you, even if it feels crappy now. You have the light at the end of this affair tunnel towards something much better that you deserve! Xxxx
Lol Lucy,
That was exactly what I was saying to myself. He has a shiny new toy to play with and has flung the old one aside. But when the new one isn’t at hand, he goes back to have a little play with the old one!
The ghosting/silent treatment hurts a lot. He probably thinks that if he doesn’t bother to communicate it will all go away and he doesn’t have to deal with any drama etc.
You are right about me betting on a unavailable man being about me not believing I deserve something real. I never had confidence (still don’t), never felt I was pretty. He knows that and told me he was going to tell me how beautiful and gorgeous I was every day till I believed it. Flattery will get him everywhere????
He has screwed up his wife’s life, screwed me up and will be screwing up a marriage. His new woman doesn’t know about me, that I’m sure of, as when he has blocked me it is because he is with her. Yet he could disrespect me even when I found out about her by still texting her in front of me, blatantly lying as to who he was texting.
He is a total sh*t. I hope he get’s his comeuppance!
There – I feel better for venting.
Heartbroken,
Every contact (or lack of it, one way or another) you’re having with him at this time must be really painful, I’m sure 🙁 And you definitely have a really low self esteem, that’s why you’ve even allowed him to have such a huge impact on you. That said, love is love and is felt by us all, but when your opinion of yourself is so dependent on others whom you put on a pedestal, the impact of things going wrong are threefold to tenfold. I’m so sorry to hear you haven’t truly felt pretty, I’m sure you are BEAUTIFUL, but our belief in this fades away as soon as we find our loved one with someone else, or even simply after a breakup, it’s just the way it goes. However, look at even those girls men *consider* real beauties in a “standard way” – their relationships end too, no matter how “widely” desired they are among men in general (or women who say “ahhh look at that actress, she’s sooo pretty, I love her, blah blah”). It’s not about beauty, it’s about Not Being Compatible. As you know, attraction is still there, and *yet* it’s over. It’s not all that. There’s more than that, so your values just don’t go together. That, and any man who behaves like him just doesn’t go with you – as soon as you find out, regardless of his intentions. xxxx
And good, good, great that you’re venting!! 😉
Feelingswise, it’s a bit like a stomach flu – it hurts like hell from the cramps, then you get the nausea, and you’re both hurt and disgusted and feel that it’s way too much. But then you realise you just have to stay through it till it’s over, and over it will be (sooner if you take some pills ), you just need keep yourself on ice chips for a while (maybe for a longish while). And then you’ll be able to take some water/tea, diet a little, have some light stock and soups, and then you’ll be getting stronger and will feel much better, and it will feel like a relief and you’ll be ready to have real food and forget about it all 🙂 Oh, and at the beginning it comes and goes in waves, so one minute you’re better, next thing you know you’re hugging the toilet… but it WILL get better! :)) xxxx
Just wanted to say thank you Lucy. Your words are a real support, I keep.re reading to keep absorbing.
Xxxxxx
Ah Lucy,
You are so right. Just what I need to read. The no contact is more painful that contact because I’m still pining. But his behaviour has revealed who he really his – a no good assclown, and I must remind myself of that fact.
I have to accept that I will have ok days and bad days, that this is the normal process. I need to stop wanting him.Have to remind myself of the bad parts of him to wean myself off of him.
Xxx
Heartbroken, please nurture yourself and be kind to yourself, and try not to feel bad about you even when you feel very sad, at *those* moments – you’re so right, it’s actually one of those “lose-lose” situations in that, even if he hadn’t “come out” the way he is sooner, he would have later. One can’t stop being what he is – a total AC, in his case. There’s no way he could “spontaneously combust” (as Nat says) into someone decent and/or the guy you thought he was. He is what he is, he offers only what he can offer – i.e. nothing (and to the new girl he is offering the same Nothing, he can try as hard as he can to disguise it but… yeah, only till she realises, unless that’s what she wants as a temporary escape from her “real” partner). Keep getting better! And please don’t feel discouraged because it’s taking time – it’s meant to. You need this time to heal, you do have time, don’t rush yourself. Xxxx
Thank you for your kind words too, Heartbroken. You know, I can see it clearer right now than a few weeks ago. Back then I would still cry from time to time. And a few months ago it felt like real real crap. It’s been a few months since the *last* breakup (after a relatively brief period on and off), and, like you, I was very sad and afraid that I would never love someone as intensely as I loved this guy, or, rather, that i would never feel such an intense feeling for anyone. And right now, not that I don’t miss him *at all* (though, honestly, less and less, even though, contrarily to your guys, this one is not an AC, we’re just simply incompatible), but I don’t feel that way anymore, and I know that I can love someone else some day :)) xxxxx
Dear Lucy,
I will try hard to look after myself. I have no appetite, don’t sleep well for the overthinking, but hopefully in time that will go back to normal.
In a way I’m hoping that that he won’t combust into to someone decent, just because it is not for me! That’s a mean thought isn’t it. As for her may be it is a temporary escape, or a means out of her marriage. I don’t know. For all he could have decided to leave his wife because he wants to be with her and it is just a matter of time for that to happen.
I will never get the truth, and nothing that comes out his mouth can be trusted, so…
I will be with family at Christmas time and busy with them and my nieces and nephews so that will be good for me.
Lucy,
I didn’t realize that it was all so fairly recent for you.
It is a real shame that you are not compatible, or rather he is incompatible with you. That is the crux.
I’m so glad you know you will be able to love someone else some day. I hope that day comes soon.
I’m not sure I will be able to. You see this is the second relationship where I have basically been shitted on. My first one lasted 7 years, he wouldn’t commit and them two weeks after I last saw him he sends and email to say he started seeing a woman from his yoga class that was helping him while his dad was dying and they had started sleeping together, had fallen in love and got engaged. All in the space of two weeks. It took me about 2 years to get over that. I wasn’t fully over it when I met MM.
I don’t think I can trust another man ever again.
xxxx
Dear Heartbroken,
I’m so sorry to hear about what you’re going through. It won’t be always like that. It’s the “very unpleasant – nearly unbearable” part, but a better one (like when you’re getting better after a nasty cold) will come, when you’ll just relax and actually enjoy having some time for yourself. No, not all men are like this, it’s simply what you encountered on your way and maybe it’s to teach you a lesson about loving yourself more and having some boundaries (or acknowledging that you have them), and about getting to know yourself better. The “simply combust” into a decent man with the new girl – that just doesn’t happen, you’re not someone to turn a hog into a rabbit, neither is she, and now you’re afraid she will be able to do the magic and make candy out of sh*t. Lol well that’s just fantasy. And no, it’s not mean, it’s human – of course you’re hurting right now because he’s “caring” with someone else (or that’s how it looks). But it’s not really caring, and from what you’ve said he seems to want it and try to get it, like he wanted you, then this new girl. He just wants what makes him feel good. And some more of that. What does this have to do with love? And how compatible is that with who you are?
There will be someone out there who you might like and who can actually be compatible, and who will want what you want… with you 🙂 It’s normal that you’re not very trusting now, but it will pass, you’ll get back to normality and it won’t be scary anymore. And you’ll be fine with yourself ;)) xxxx
Lucy,
Thank you for your replies and continued support. An indication of how kind and caring a person you are! Feel like you’re my personal therapist, lol ???? x
You are so right that part of the problem is my fear that she will turn him into a better man somehow and change his behaviour to more honorable/honest/decent and live happily ever after. But the more I think about things he has said and done the more I know that he is an accomplished liar and she may think he is perfect but I know better. And that is the advantage that I have. I am empowered.
I’ve been approached by men but when I tell them I’m getting over a break up, if you can call it that, they seem to think that I should sleep with them to help me get over him. Honestly – assclowns every where! They are all after one thing. Well mate you ain’t getting it from me.
I’ve been too trusting and see that I’ve been deluding myself with both relationships.
Everyday, bit by bit I hope to get over the pain and anxiety.
Xxxxx
Heartbroken,
It’s fairly normal that you got into another crappy relationship after one where you had been treated badly. Really, it’s very logical, you were still hurt when you got involved with MM. And now it’s a lot more clear why you had a low self-esteem at that time that you’d get involved with a MM to start with. It sounds like your previous ex was overlapping a little, and not like an honest person. Sorry you went through that too. But again it’s about you realising that you deserve much better.
And I admire you, seven years is a long time and I’m sure you did your best there. Treat yourself like after a 2nd major divorce – you’re on your own and, right now, hurting, but Yes You Are Taking Time Off which is Necessary.
xxxx
Lucy,
Not sure whether my previous ex was overlapping. All I know it he wouldn’t commit to me, kept thinking there was someone more compatible with his lifestyle but kept me hanging on. I was stupid not to cut loose early on and lived in hope.
There is definitely a part of me where my self esteem had dictated to me that I am not good enough and therefore, hungry for love and affection, settled for the crumbs MM through my way.
So how are you doing?
Xxxx
Hi again, Heartbroken,
Just wanted to add that I too think you’re a lovely person, and that I’m happy we can support each other. Hope you’ll feel better soon, even if it’s baby steps ;)) xxxxx
Hi Lucy,
I’m unsure which post I’m replying to as well at times, lol.
Glad to hear you’re taking it easy and spent time with a friend.
Yesterday I felt numb. Even knowing that he was off work and she was ‘working from home’ which meant they were together. I purposely put the idea of him in bed with her like he use to be with me out of my mind. Particularly thinking of him behaving exactly as he did with me as it makes me feel devalued. Today however I feel very anxious, sick in the stomach. I don’t know why.
I have taken the day off to go see a play. Just on my own. Treating myself. I hope I will get lost in it.
Your observation on affection and the lack of it is very true. I was thinking to myself similarly this morning – have I made him to be better than he is because he gave me affection, hugs and held me tight. Like he really truly cared about me.
And then I ask if it was all fake.
Genuine affection means more to me than sex, but I guess for him it is not a big deal and he can go from one woman to the next, doing the same.
A big cause of my pain is the lies and continued lies.
I guess being genuine and honest, the deceit and shady behaviour has hurt a lot, and I keep asking ‘how can he behave like that, why did he do that to his wife, to me?’ I need to stop thinking I know, but easier said than done.
Tomorrow I will be back at work and will have the distraction of that.
Just have to deal with each day as it comes.
Glad that you’re doing so well Lucy. I m sure you still have moments though when you are thinking about him etc.
Xxxxxx
Heartbroken,
I’m so sorry to hear you were feeling so hurt yesterday. Hope today is better. I’m glad though you took the evening for yourself, hope the play was good! You’re so right about the lies, it makes everything lose its value. But painful as it is, it’s better out in the light than still to be discovered. How could he do it? Well I don’t know (we usually don’t), but he lied to his wife for so long, lying to you, having most probably lied to the new girl too – he’s just used to it. No, I don’t think he was lying about his affection for you, but when one is selfish, they choose themselves not in a healthy way we talk about on this blog, but in an “I couldn’t care less what happens to you afterwards, or now” way. He may have felt great around you and been genuinely fond of you, but his interests are not those of someone caring, so it’s always all about him… or so it seems.
Yes, I still have those moments when I miss him, occasionally. But even more strikingly, yesterday I realised that I’m following a pattern of “falling for someone expecting he’ll eventually abandon me”. It made me seriously concerned, I even cried because I felt a little desperate. Even when I’m in a platonic friendship with someone I like, I cherish this relationship (friendship) THAT much that I’m worried what not to do or what to do that I can keep *this precious thing*, always afraid of breaking the *precious vessel*. I don’t know where this is coming from. I need to change. But this latest comment fits more in the post about “That one faux move” – I really need help.
xxxxx
Sorry, this is the last reply to this post, really! 🙂 just wanted to say, of course you still have feelings for him. It’s not bad or dumb, it’s just how it goes. They’ll be there for a while. Do you think writing unsent legs might help to let them flow? It’s a good thing to do, especially if you start no contact and miss him/need to talk/need to think about him, and especially if you tend to feel bad about yourself in the process. It really helps!! There’s a guide in BR. Xxx
Thanks Lucy.
I’m not sure about unsent letters, but I do have plenty of imaginary conversations in my head where I’m telling how I feel, so may be that’s the equivalent of the unsent letter.
It’s just so hard when you love someone so much, and wanted to just make them happy, but they have lied to you and basically used you. To make myself feel better I say to myself that he and his new woman deserve each other, both cheating on their spouses.
Love Heartbroken
xxxxxxx
Heartbroken,
Thank you for your support with my story, too!! Haha it’s funny what you said about “personal therapist” – I know what you mean! It’s a bit like, when you’ve been through something recently, it’s like you feel the other person’s pain a bit more. Reading about your experience has been inspiring too – it’s sad to see what you’re going through, but maybe it can help us see a pattern where we sometimes tend to fall and it definitely shows how important a healthy self-esteem is. Natalie has a great post about us thinking that “they will make them a better person” – though you’ve probably checked it 😉
I think that men that feel attracted to you are not necessarily ACs, they’re just more prompt to rebound to get over a relationship – and they don’t want to miss out – they like you! (But yes what they suggest is totally silly LOL! Especially when you’re not the kind of person who wants to have a loving relationship, rather than one night stands, etc.)
And yessss, it’s great that sometimes we can share some stories here and support each other (thanks Nat!! :))
Hope you’re taking a little more care of you every day 🙂
xxxxx
*I meant, “when you ARE the kind of person who wants a loving relationship…” Sorry for the typo!! x
Thanks Lucy.
Yes I did come across Nat’s post on the new woman making them a better person when looking at various posts. Reading all the applicable posts on BR helps to understand and make a certain sense of it all.
It is unbelievable really how so may of us have similar stories. These ACs seem to have a set way of behaving that is so predictable.
Hiii Heartbroken,
Sorry, I think sometimes I hit the wrong “reply” button and then it turns out I’m replying to a different comment!!
How are you?? I’m trying to take things easier whatever it is about. Yesterday it was a bank holiday here so I took a day off and had a good time with a friend. You know what I’ve realised? That sometimes when I’m starved of affection (even physical LOL, I mean, just a hug), I tend to put the other person on a pedestal and “hanker” after it, like dream of it… and I’ve sort of realised that in reality it’s not so big a thing, and I should pull back a lot and feel cooler about things – being fond of someone, even liking someone – it’s not that big a deal. I have this tendency to make it all so big and meaningful for myself (and, by extension, for the other person – but is it??), and then come expectations and even neediness… so I’d rather give it a break 🙂
How are you feeling?? I hope you’re doing a little better, even if it’s a tiny wee little bit :)) xxxxx
Hi Lucy,
I can understand your fear of abandonment. Experience has made you distrustful. I’m sorry that you were upset and cried. But you must not worry about doing or not doing something to keep the relationship. Just be yourself and if they don’t accept and keep you for you then they are not worth it. If I were you I would take time to get to know the person to see if they are genuine and true towards you. If they are you won’t lose the friendship.
I have few real friend – there are the ones I trust and tell anything to without being judged.
Heartbroken,
Thank you so much for your support! Yes, I too guess that if a friend wants to stay your friend, you can trust him and just be yourself. I do need to stop putting people on pedestals and/or activate the pleaser in me whenever I’m around someone I’m fond of. It doesn’t make any sense and it’s like trying to be in control of the uncontrollable, it makes life so much me stressful. Same for you and your MM (though to hell with him), and future boyfriends. You don’t need to try to behave in a certain way so that they may want to be always there for you. If you’re nice to them, caring, loving, it should be because that’s you’re nature, not because you’re afraid to lose them. Love doesn’t go with fear.
Xxxxx
Lucy,
With time you will be able to get to the stage where you are just yourself – kind and caring but not people pleasing because you are comfortable with who you are, and will no longer be thinking that you need to act a certain way to retain a friendship. Just don’t invest too much too soon, with time you will find out if the person is worthy. I use to be a bit of a people pleaser, especially in my previous relationship with the thinking that it might endear me to him and make him see how nice and good a person I was, worthy. But it doesn’t work like that.
I know you have a loving and caring nature and there’s nothing wrong with giving love and care but just distinguish between needing to please and just being you and you will be fine.
Yes to hell with MM. He has removed me from his calendar access. Good in a way – I won’t be obsessing about who he’s lunching with. Of course I know he will be but it’s not there in front of me. However it did feel like another stab in the heart,and brought on an anxiety attack.
Still a ways to go. ????
Just to say that by “future boyfriends” in plural I didn’t mean that I wish you to go through more breakups! I hope you meet someone who you’re fully compatible with and happy around, and who will make you happy and vice versa. It’s just that sometimes you meet more people on your way to the one you end up being happy with, but please feel every time a little better about yourself! 😉
I fear I will never meet anyone that I will be happy with. Feel time is passing and I am getting older and older
Xxx
Lucy,
Yesterday I saw him with the new woman. Walking down the road acting like colleagues. He saw me an waved.
I don’t think he knows that I know who she was. He did tell me her name though and I worked put for myself who it was likely to be. And yesterday it was confirmed when I saw them holding hands just outside the cafe where they were going for lunch.
We use to have lunch in the same place.
Seeing them holding hands made me shake like a leaf.
I wanted to throw up.
He is a total utter bastard.
How can he behave like this???
I almost wish I had gone up to then and said something to her. But that wouldnt have achieved anything to help me.
Feeling angry now. And starting to hate him I think.
I’ve just called time on a relationship that started out as being mutual (for the first 6 weeks) & then dropped to casual after he took me off my pedestal. Unfortunately, as time unfolded, it became apparent that he had narcissistic characteristics and I was put down, berated, told.i was crazy, had him insinuating that he would commit suicide etc if I left,so I was guilted into staying until he found a new narcissistic supply. It’s been an incredibly painful 5 mths and I’ve done some of the classics that Nat mentions in other posts – hoping that he’d recognise my worth & upgrade me etc.
I’ve cut all contact now having realised that I was duped, but I’m upset with myself for tolerating this situation and I’ve to go for counselling to try and limit it happening again. There are times that I will find anyone, particularly at age 45. 🙁
Amanda, 45 is young! I know people who didn’t meet their partner until they were 60 plus. Sometimes it just works out that way. Focus on yourself and take the time to heal, don’t pressure yourself and don’t buy the myth that you’re only worthy if you’re in a relationship – realise that life can be wonderful with or without a partner.
Oh Dany…well said! Amanda 45 is young and you are worthy, intelligent, bright, articulate. Focus on your real friends and keep reading Nat… we are there with you. XXX
Amanda,
Yes they put you on a pedestal, worship you until they have you right were they want you, and then treat you like crap.
Don’t be upset with yourself. A lot of us have gone down the route of doing this or that to make them see our worth. But they don’t really CARE about us, only themselves, and so cannot see our worth, nor how they hurt us with their words and actions or in-actions.
I can understand that you feel that you won’t ever find any one, but as Dany says you are still young. I guess you (and I) need to decide whether a partner is necessary to be happy. If you do want a partner, just take your time to make sure he is not an AC or narcissist or sociopath- you need to look out for the signs that would indicate he is one.
I am 48 and this was only my 2nd relationship in all my years. At the moment any thought of a partner is inconceivable and I am coming to the conclusion I will never find a decent man to love and love me as I would like, and therefore resigned to a life without a partner.
I hope the counselling helps.
Hi Ladies, I felt as you describe four years ago after trying to forge a relationship with an EUM and getting stuck because of my then own emotional unavailability and lack of self worth and understanding.
I am 49 in a two months. I have been immersed in living my life with authenticity, with a constant eye on connecting with my self worth and boundaries and self respect since I gave up the on line route in early 2013. I had not attempted a relationship with anyone since 2012 (short lived mentioned above). Prior to that no real relationship since 2005 (my son’s father). For the past four years I have learnt to live contentedly and with more emotional availability than at any other time in my life.
And I am now in a situation where I have been dating someone since the beginning of September. This is not something that I could have imagined yet here I am. We met at a mutual friends. Neither of us were looking. Thanks to my truly new far healthier relationship with myself, thanks to the self knowledge I have acquired in the last 5 years, I am in the midst of progressing within/towards a respectful, caring and most salient to me, trusting, mutual relationship. Something I have not truly experienced since I was 21 years old. It’s no ride in the park – I check in with myself constantly and have had to address my triggers towards ingrained patterns and fantasy a number of times in the last three months. But that is one of the major differences – understanding when I start to self sabotage and coming back to reality quickly. I was happy three months ago and I am still happy now. If he suddenly busted my boundaries I could leave him but that’s not going to happen.
For me, at least, I became aware of and and then dropped my patterns (over a long period of time) and somehow came into myself and started living as me. Then we met. I’m not saying it’s directly causal but at the same time if I wasn’t with myself and accepting me and feeling like ‘I’m ok , a worthy person, I’m lovavble and loving, open and emotionally available’ then I know that I would either have self sabotaged with him by now or we would not have chosen each-other in the first place.
Good luck to all. Thank you Nat.
Lizzp
Happy that you have met someone who sounds like a decent man. Your story give us hope!
Ditto. I feel like I’m attending an AA meeting when I say I’m 48 and my last relationship was 14 years ago 🙂 Since then I’ve met various EUM. As I’m the common denominator I have to wonder whether I’m not good enough, I’m doing something wrong and/or I’m attracted to the wrong types.
Ali you ARE good enough.
Thank you for your reply Heartbroken. That’s so sweet. And deep down I know you’re right. I’ll keep reading Baggage Reclaim to bolster that reaffirmation.
I know it’s hard Ali.
It’s easier to give advice and support to others, but convincing ourselves is much more difficult…..
Ladies you are so wonderful. You are so affirming, so selfless and kind. We bare our souls here and we gain strength from each other. Thank you all for your part in my healing journey. It’s been tough, but it would have ben tougher with you all. XX
XXX
Ditto!! You ARE!!! You just need to know that you don’t need BS so that you won’t feel attracted to BS anymore…
A few “Hello” relationship notes from “The Other Side” of Aging:
-“Casual relationships” eventually result in casualties.
-The only context the word “micro” should appear is in relation to beer and breweries.
-“Manage” is PC Speak for “Control.”
-Ignore the disparity between words and behavior and fall face first into the relationship chasm known as the Seventh Ring of (Fresh) Hell.
-If it’s starting to feel cool and the pumpkins or spice candles aren’t in season, neither is he.
-If you’ve had this “Emergency Show and Tell” discussion many times before, it better be because you are a flight attendant.
-Reality exists for a reason, just as gravity does: It ensures you don’t jump off any tall buildings because you *needed to believe * you (or the other) were “exceptions.”
-As I told my young secretary decades ago, “You PLAY with the boys, you STAY with a man.” (Fill in your particular orientation.)
-The word “No” is the most powerful BS repellant in your arsenal-use it. OFTEN.
-When the proportion of time you spend ruminating over “the relationship” is in inverse proportion to the time you’re actually spending IN it, bail and pull your Emergency Chute: The inevitable “landing” is a hella safer and softer than a crash-n-burn.
-“Strategy” is PC Speak for “manipulation.”
-Relationships are NOT “Strategies:” The only time that word is appropriately used is in the context of war and they have a name like “Shock and Awe.” These “surprises” are deadly to all living things including relationships.
-If you keep going in circles, you’ll keep seeing the same scenery-and you’ll never pass your road test.
-The appropriate term for “we keep talking around the same stuff” is called Telelogical Reasoning: It goes no where, makes no sense and is a Diversion and Distraction technique.
-There is no such thing as a “Friend Zone” that doesn’t involve the “Friend” being frustrated as hell, minimally. If you’re the “Friend” who is now in that “Zone,” it’s the equivalent of being the fresh garlic in the garlic press: You’re gonna get minced into another state and the pungent odor is a challenge to get off. Interestingly, lemons help.
-If Childhood Growth and Development is so completely irrelevant to Adult Life, why do you keep dragging it into or trying to “fix it” in the here and now? Because it’s still playing out in your current relationships under the sanitized (and billable) rubric of “Recapitulation of the Primary Trauma.”
-Not all men or women are “abusive shits.” The reality your past relationship narrative is totally (or almost) composed of such is a Wake Up Call/Text on redial -and you keep shutting off your phone. The message is: “Your Pecker Picker is Broken” writ LARGE. Yes, it’s about YOU, just not the way you thought.
-It would be convenient if some people came with “Unfit For Human Consumption” tattooed on their forehead and you didn’t have “Willing To Surrender My Humanity” tattooed on your’s. No wonder all your selfies are cut off above your eyes.
-I don’t care how “hawt” he, she or it is: Volcanos not only spew magma but poisonous gasses as well. So you’re gonna get stoned to death, burned to death or choked to death. Or you could just briefly marvel at the show and then get the hell out of the way.
-Neither Chanel or Maybelline is gonna save you from the physical “ravages of time” but a life well lived, in accordance with your morals, values and ethics will save you regrets. Not all of them, but the pay off is still a lotta peace.
-The more time you spend in La La Land, the less time you spend in Life. A Dreamer is beautiful only when asleep.
-The toughest critic you’ll ever confront is your own conscience: It’s the merciless counterpart to your piss poor decisions and failure to heed it’s directive despite repeated experience. Place it on “mute” with drugs, booze, food, sex etc. doesn’t make it go away, it just accrues interest at an astounding rate.
-Yes, you can do it-with your head held high if ya do it with someone else who also respects themeselves as well as you. When you fish with stink bait, the only thing you’re gonna get is bottom feeders. Remember, the pole and bait are your’s.
TW
Thanks TW. I appreciate your no nonsense approach to these issues. I’ve found that sometimes the shock of the blunt truth is what breaks through my denial (fantasy) most effectively.
Tundra Woman you are mighty!
Love these x
This post describes my last relationship pretty perfectly. While I’m sorry this happened to other people too at the same time it’s nice to know I’m not alone! Thank you
The article showed up right when the guy I used to date try to reconnect. It reminds me why I shall never go back to him. Thank you very much.
It’s been 2 months since I have seen or talk to my eum. I can firmly say that the thought of going back to such treatment is now repulsive . I pulled the plug after 2 years. Extremely painful, but worth every tear, sleepless night, wasted day, and total dispare. I feel much better now and see I am worth more than being a second choice, fwb, fk buddy, or considered casual. Thanks Nat!!
I’ll never understand the gaslighting people do. It’s quite insane. That being called impatient example when a valid concern is brought. Are gaslighters consciously aware of the BS? I’m not sure I’ll ever understand the lack of responsibility and pushing off blame. I’m just glad I can see it when it appears and respond appropriately.
This post really helps me to stay away and stay NC from a friends with benefits experiment of mine. Lasted about 4 months and I discovered I am not built for casual relating. At least not for very long. I am concluding open relationship means open to being used. No thank you. And I am proud of me for listening to me and going before I got hurt. All my reading about harems from Natalie really helped. I think I was the chief harem girl there for a bit and when I started wondering about having to compete with other harem members I realized its time to go. And NC with this guy is going to be FOREVER! The last thing I want is to be one of his “friends” who he may or may not sleep with. His birthday parties are all women and I REFUSE!
What do you guys think:
A year and a half ago I met D. We started dating and were head over heels. After a month or so we decided to get into a serious relationship. Everything was bliss until after a few months we got into arguments, which grew more intens. About 8 months of serious dating we called it quits. A couple of months later he started dating someone else. We stayed in touch. The relationship lasted 6 months. Two months ago I started dating D. again. We had a good chat and mutually decided to give it another chance. Everything was running smooth up until two weeks ago, when we had a serious chat on how things were going.
I got caught by surpise by his reaction. He stated that everything was going quite fast. He prefered to slow down things. Meet up less frequently.
My gut feeling told me something was not right. So I questioned a bit more, turns out he wants a friends with benefits situation. He doesn’t want the responsibility of a proper relationship. And even calls himself selfish for saying so.
Is he just scared or should I run before it’s too late?
M,
My MM called himself a sh*t for what he was doing to me. And your guy calling himself selfish – I just wonder if they do it to garner sympathy and to make us feel bad, or are using reverse psychology?
I would seriously think about what you want. You may agree to FWB to start off with but if you want a real relationship and he is not willing to commit you will end up hurt.
If they tell you they are a sh*t – believe them. If they tell you they are being selfish – believe them. You/we do not have the superhuman powers of Greek Gods to change them. Run.
Hey M., maybe you can help me …..I’ve been pondering the “whys” of women and their poor relationship choices. When does that happen…?…what insidious things are occurring in our upbringing and socialization that make women susceptible to throwing themselves under the bus?
I remember loving the color pink when I was a little girl, and wanting to be a princess on Halloween when I was in elementary school…yet I don’t remember actually learning from my parents about the color pink and being a princess. My Mom read to us, but I remember being read Aesop’s fables and the Wizard of Oz…not Cinderella. Though I did have a Cinderella coloring book…
I’m just ruminating. I wonder when we get socialized that “winning” the man is our best achievement. No matter how bad he may treat you or how little he will give of himself, “having” him makes you the winner.
M., you are listening to everything he says, but you are believing that you will somehow “win” him. He wants to FWB you and you are looking for the secret desire he has to be “in” a relationship. I don’t get why you would fool yourself…why so many of us fool ourselves. He will FWB you, then when someone new catches his fancy, he will ghost you without a thought, and then when he finally responds to one of your tearful calls, he’ll say “I told you I was a jerk”, and you will actually think it is your fault for not being good enough. Why do we do that to ourselves. I swear, we are more circumspect about the phone we purchase than we are about the men we sleep with.
Elgie,
I’m not sure whether it is about ‘winning’, maybe more conditioning towards having a partner, that will we will spend the rest of lives with in monogamy, being the pinnacle of life.
The Cinderella tale gives hope that we will be be noticed and chosen, thought of as special, that we too can find our prince charming (a decent loving person) and overcome the odds whatever they may be, to live happily ever after.
Perhaps our innate craving for love and affection clouds our judgement when a man is ‘nice’ to us, pays us compliments, and makes us feel wanted. We jump at the crumbs.
The reason, in the case of EU and ACs, they want us is not the same reason we want them. However to get what they want from us they will play along. When we then find out they are ACs and have just been using us etc, we maybe want to ‘win’ them because we are afraid we will never find anyone else? That if we still hang around they will see our worth, they will change for us, want us?
I know my MM is a no good, but at the moment I still want him. I shouldn’t because I know he is a liar and cheat. The fact that he is seeing another woman makes me feel utterly used. You can argue that it is my fault. But the heart wants what the heart wants, and I did try to resist for a year. However I think he was determined to have me, and reeled me in.
I ask myself why do I want him still and I think the answer is because despite what he has done, there are feelings for him still present quite strongly. And perhaps
I’m afraid that I will never meet anyone else, at least not anyone for who I will have the same kind of feelings.
Scared? He is not scared! HE told you the scary truth and you are the one who needs to be scared! He said in a plain English that he wants to be in a friends-with-benefits relationship, in other words ‘ I want to use you for sex’ . Are you ok with it ?
By the way, do not even think for a moment that ‘one day you will become hid GF’ . There is a reason he does not (and will not) want upgrade you to a GF status.
The bottom line here is to listen to what he says ( you have to give him a credit for his honesty though) and not ‘hear’ what you want to hear.
Well, it is sure makes sense but unfortunately some ladies are so needy for a relationship and are so delusional that ‘things may change’ that staying (to them) seems like a better option. I say, if you are not getting what you need and he is NOT making any efforts to give then what is the point of staying??
Ladies, there is no need to stay in dead -end relationships. The one that is described by Natalie here – is a perfect example!!