Months ago, while catching up with a mate of mine, she told me about Impostor Syndrome, a term that refers to being unable to associate our achievements with ourselves. We’d been exchanging work tales, where we were essentially talking about things that we’d each achieved, positive feedback from clients and readers etc, but each was praising the other, but neither of us were talking about it as if we were two people who had truly internalised our accomplishments and were proud.
Imposter Syndrome is what I recognise as that paranoia that somebody is about to catch you out because you don’t believe in your accomplishments. You carry on like you’re ‘deceiving’ people even though you’re not. If you don’t believe in you enough or you still think “I’m not good enough” no matter what you do or what anyone says, this feeling should be all too familiar to you. My mate who told me about it was the in-house PR for one of the most famous homeware brands in the world and now runs her own business. She still expects someone to suddenly turn around and say “What the eff are you talking about? You’re a fraud!”
I think that this whole feeling like a fraud and being disassociated from our accomplishments actually stretches beyond the professional world and into our relationships. You don’t associate you with you, whether it’s the person you claim you are, the person you see in the mirror, or the positive external feedback you receive from others.
There are so many people who are punching below their weight in relationships because they know the theory that they should have boundaries, that they need to and should treat themselves with love, care, trust, and respect, and that they are in possession of qualities, characteristics, and values that if they honoured them and focused on entering into a mutually fulfilling partnering, that they’d be happy. They look around and see happier people, or look closer to home and recognise that even if they don’t know what ‘healthy’ looks like, ‘this’, their current state, isn’t working.
Yet they don’t believe in themselves enough and more destructively, they don’t believe that they deserve to be treated in line with what they recognise to be healthy.
It’s weird to admit this but, in wanting to have something different from what I’d witnessed and experienced in childhood, I felt like a fraud. It seemed easier to be around the ‘familiar’ and try to change that, than it was to totally leave it behind and take a punt on the unfamiliar. It was a bit of “Who do you think you are?”
When I did try to date differently and was treated ‘better’ than say, when I was with my ‘type’ (a jumbled up Mr Unavailable version of my father with all of my hopes and expectations pinned on it), because I didn’t truly believe in a healthy relationship and I wasn’t following through on treating myself well, I’d look at external evidence of the fact that I deserved to be treated better and be unable to internalise this.
If you’ve felt like you were ‘choking’ in a relationship where you were actually, for all intents and purposes being treated very well, you’re disassociated from this manifestation of what being treated well looks like. On paper you may believe that you have various characteristics, qualities, values, and even superficial qualities that would merit you being treated well, but when you get external validation of this, you reject it.
It’s that question of whether you have the confidence to act in your best interests, know that you’re a person of value and that you deserve to be treated as worthwhile? That’s not just by others; that’s by you also.
I used to have a fear of the ‘flaw’ that made me ‘not good enough’ being discovered by whoever I was involved with. I believed that guys would be attracted because I was smart, ambitious, appearance and yada yada yada, but then I’d worry that I wouldn’t be able to hold onto them or that they’d be shocked when they realised I wasn’t ‘all that’ or found out ‘too much’ about my background, so of course I’d change my behaviour to hold them, which would actually only feed further into this idea that I was ‘fraudulent’ and had deceived them by wooing them in on a souped up version of myself.
It’s like the moment conflict was on the horizon or I felt nervous, I went “Haha! I was just bluffing about being a woman that respects herself. If I offer you the doormat version instead, will you stick around?”
Always remember: Being you doesn’t make you ‘fraudulent’ – it’s being all the things you think you ‘should’ be in order to win over others and avoid conflict.
You might read Baggage Reclaim and sometimes practically punch the air and say “Yes!” while beating your chest in affirmation of what you know to be a reflection of healthy relationships. It may feel empowering and on paper, you know you deserve better, you know why an unhealthy relationship or treating yourself in a certain way is going to yield certain negative results, and you know that change doesn’t come out of doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result.
Yet when push comes to shove, you don’t associate you with the fruits of treating yourself well and expecting it from others.
I see it time and again when people practically complain about having boundaries, having to opt out, to ask questions, to get uncomfortable, to make decisions, and to have some self-control. You’ll do it for a while and see genuine, positive results and feel them…and yet, you won’t associate yourself with them because you don’t internalise the good things that you’re doing for your.
When asked or even thinking about the personal accomplishments you’re making in growing as a person and striving for healthier relationships, you’ll put it down to ‘luck’, or forecast doom and gloom, or quietly wait for the other shoe to drop, and in the worst cases, sabotage it so that you end up creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you meet someone new, you’ll question whether it’s ‘you’ they really think they’re getting or look for faults in them.
Funny enough though, if it’s something negative, you’ll probably have no problem associating yourself with it…
Being good to you is a habit. Expecting to be treated with the basics of care, trust, respect, and where appropriate love, is a habit. Saying NO and not being a doormat is a habit. Listening to yourself and avoiding treading water in stress is a habit. Making decisions is a habit – the more you do it, the easier it gets. The less you do it, the more your life feels like swimming in treacle.
In fact, being you is a habit.
There are many things you can get away with faking in life such as futures, orgasms, how much hair you have, and your nails, but the one thing you can’t fake is you and all that you encompass. You come with history, experience, quirks, characteristics, qualities, values, and yes, flaws, but so does everyone.
If like me, you decide that you want to outgrow your childhood, to go down a different path, to change habits, to break patterns that may go back generations, it doesn’t make you a fraud; it makes you, you. Where you’ve been doesn’t have to define you – you define you. No you can’t erase your past but you don’t have to be shackled by it, live in it, or see yourself through a lens based in the past that limits you.
Instead of seeing being you as a pain in the arse and focusing on negatives, regrets, and not believing in yourself, positively focus your energies on you and embrace you, day after day after day. Just like relationships are the act of choosing one each other day after day after day through your actions, so is self-esteem. Choose you every day. You deserve better than selling yourself short.
Your thoughts?
Check out my book and ebook Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl in my bookshop.
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Wow, I’m going through this right now. I’ve (hopefully) kicked my Mr Unavailable habit and have recently started seeing a great guy. He’s kind, funny, intelligent and (shockingly) he’s into me. He phones and emails when he says he will, he treats me well on dates, etc. All this would be great except I can’t relax because I’m expecting him to suddenly realise I’m not worthy of all this and kick me to the curb. Because of that, I’m constantly holding back with him (sometimes ignoring his emails for days on end, making up excuses for why I can’t go on a date he’s suggested) and also wondering if I should dump him before he dumps me.
Obviously I am still a work in progress!
This is a nice post.
I’m still on the ‘No Dating Rule’ at the moment, which is working nicely, and I’m finding that I’m making a lot of friends (who spend more time with me *in person* than Mr Unavailable co-incidently).
Growing up in a household where domestic violence was the norm has made it hard for me to trust other people. It is in fact extremely difficult. This presents itself in friendships (am I good enough for them / am I a good enough friend for them / will I lose them? / will I screw it up?) but in my attempts (I say attempts, because getting the damn thing to take off almost always fails) at relationships.
It’s like I wonder if I’m putting on a show and the backdrop to the stage will fall apart at any moment or I’ll have someone and I’ll be like “now what do I do?” or “will they discover my self-confidence is screwed?” its somewhat hard to explain. It’s almost like I expect it to fail, or I feel myself going into the deep end and not knowing how to swim because I haven’t been there before and I wonder if they’ll get tired of me or bored because I’m just me? Does that make sense?
On two occasions (and its always when Mr Unavailable puts almost nothing in) *after* I’ve broken up and they’re gone, I’ve gone into this wasteland of wondering whether I should change to be more like them, comparing myself to them and who I am- this is hugely damaging.
so much to deal with.
Tired,
I have two comments/questions for you:
1. Do you think that (just) your childhood expreriences have something to do with these patterns? Or is it more of a consequence of childhood (abuse?), then relationships, then lack of self-esteem? What do you think and I wonder what Natalie thinks?
2. Your No dating Rule – how did you figure it out, how do you know for how long and how do you know when you are ready?
I have gone to several psychologists but it seemed like they were not interested in talking about relationships. One of them said: “What do you want at your age?” (I was married for 19 years)
I am trying to understand myself and the dating world…
Absolutely, is is like being raised on another planet where the environment is 99 % boundary free and the perpetrator is free to do as they please with you and then being released into the real world with a blank piece of paper for instructions/guide. I didn’t have a reference to “normal” of what healthy looks like so it was almost impossible to detect a boundary crossing – because crappy behaviour was a normal experience.
I know this sounds absolutely ridiculous but its sometimes like “now what do I do?”, no wonder I feel like a fake! Where is the script? NML’s book is great because it goes through more situations like florences, future fakers (haven’t experienced that one yet), sympathy vs empathy etc. There are other books like ‘Reinventing your Life’, but that is more psych literature. But maybe worth a read.
The No Dating Rule is NML’s ‘dating hiatus’ with a different name (c.f. No Contact Rule). It’s where I reject all dates covert and overt, and pour cold water on conversations like ‘so have you met any great guys lately’. After the end of my fantasy non-relationship, I went on 2 dates with different people and it was just impossible to be authentic- I felt like a faker!
I had two choices- keep trying or embrace my emotional unavailability, for now.
My boundary is that I will not enter or begin or attempt to start and LTR until I have my life in order (study finished, stable 1st real world job), my baggage offloaded (90% there), and I have decent things to bring to the table for the other person (whoever that might be) & something serious. This should only be another six months or less before I’m in this position.
It’s not just about finding the ‘right’ person – it is about also being in a position to *write a good deal* for another person. I’m just not able to write a good deal for anyone at the moment (time, money etc) so they’ll be a ban on any deal writing until I can.
Tired,
Thank you for your explanations. That makes perfect sense. (I am a little bit hesistant to comment in detail publicly). I do appreciate so much what you wrote!!!
Tired,
I DID that…as if I wasn’t EU myself, every relationship (none of them healthy) that has ended, I picked up whatever vice they had that pushed us further apart. So I have cheated, drank too much (amongst other substances), been the OW to a MUCH too inappropriate (age, distance) MM straight to the EUM (that was different though because his committement issues were worse than mine allowing me to take on the passive avoider roll…aka the victim). So not that I know everything, but I’ve made plenty of mistakes trying to be anyone but myself, I strongly recommend you to stay authentic to yourself…even if you’re still not sure what that is….I do know it dosen’t involve the behavior of anyone else.
Cat doesn’t sound like any red flags there so give him a break and enjoy what sounds like a nice man. You’re right it may not last but you can say that about any relationship. If you keep ignoring him sooner or later he’ll bolt and could you blame him, he’s bound to think you’re not interested. Any if you’re really not then tell so he can find someone else. Its the only right thing to do.
Hi, I am right there with you. Gosh, a great guy (truly) is interested in me. Wants to be with me, spend quality respectful fun mutual time with me and I have built walls of steel to protect myself. He is patient with it all, but we (you and I) need to stop and let good happen to us.
@Cat
I think some of that is because there’s no drama because EUW’s are way into drama! So it’s uncomfortable because you’re used to “emotionally fighting” with the guy and when none of that stuff is raised with the red flags and bad behavior, we think “this doesn’t feel right.” Even if it’s unconscious. We may not even have conscious thoughts about it “not feeling right,” but our behavior indicates that we revert back to old wiring: ignoring the guy, starting to treat him badly, believing we don’t “deserve” it, etc.
Keep in mind this is the same stuff EUMs are dealing with.
Don’t be that girl!
It is so true that we see only the bad we do and never the good things. I think this comes from how we talk to ourselves. I am currently working on the way I talk to myself. I say such negative and just plain rude things to myself, but now I am arguing back and disproving these attacks. If someone looks at me in a certain way, I start to tell myself that the person has seen through my mask and doesn’t like me. Now I stop my thoughts in their tracks and start to ask what evidence do I have that the person is thinking badly of me. I then list other possible reasons why the person looked at me in a certain way. Negative self-talk is the root of all our problems and why we allow AC’s to have their way with us and our self-worth.
Ltg
“Negative self-talk is the root of all our problems and why we allow AC’s to have their way with us and our self-worth.”
I totally agree. it was Natalie who first identified this for me on BR when I first found the site. I spent a few days just listening to myself, both my thoughts and the conversations i was having with people. I was shocked to listen to myself and the self-negating monologue that went on in my head most of the time. I catch myself now every time I hear myself being negative about me and I also listen more to what I am saying to other people. I have close family member who can talk on the phone for two hours at a time about herself and her life and it is all, without exception, a tirade of negativity. It used to make me feel very stressed without really knowing why – now that I am more enlightened I will not listen to her for more than ten minutes – I get off the phone, fast. She doesn’t call me so much now (what a surprise).
I also get the imposter syndrome. I went for a lot of interviews for promoted positions at work a few years ago and although the advice to me was to ‘be myself’, ‘have confidence’, I never landed the jobs because I could not convince myself that I was good enough – during the interviews my over-riding thoughts were that I was a fraud trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the interviewers while the truth is that I was at least as good as (and better than) the other candidates. Thanks to BR, I now don’t feel that way – I have much more self-belief, I believe I am at least as good as anyone else at my job and better than many. It also helps to get the EUM/ACs out of your life! They make you feel crap about yourself.
fearless
absolutely get them out of your life. i think many women (and I did it too) want to “get better” before ditching the MM/EUM/AC. You’re not going to get better if you keep him in your life. You don’t give up smoking by continuing to buy cigarettes and smoke them. You don’t lose weight by eating krispy kremes every day. You don’t get the house clean by watching tv all day. You have to do something now.
They are actively contributing to your feeling of inadequacy, even if that contribution is just a text a month. We shouldn’t BS ourselves and pretend we’re not waiting for them to notice us when we are.
And Nat hits the nail on the head – it’s not a punishment to get someone out of your life who’s treating you like crap. That’s a crazy idea that comes from low self-esteem no matter how much you protest otherwise or try to spin it to make him seem like God’s gift.
I’ve observed that comments usually start out with him, him, him, he said this, he said that, he texed this, he called, didn’t show up, he does this, that, and the other, I need to understand him, he needs to give me closure. As Nat says, there’s no sense of the woman at all. She’s completely submerged in him. And then, gradually, and encouragingly the first green shoots of herself come up to the light.
That’s why I stick around even though I’m not in a crappy relationship and not in danger of being in one. It’s just lovely to see women growing as they should.
I am so glad you stick around, Grace. I always look forward to your comments and get so much out of them.
The ex EUM arse “couldn’t understand” why I got so stressed about job interviews – “couldn’t understand” why I lacked self-belief, why I felt ‘less than’. Pfft. To be fair, I didn’t understand it either. I do now! But it is bizarre that the very man who spends years blowing snow in my face (as Elle, I think, put it once) can’t understand why I don’t think that much of myself – or why I don’t believe other people (like those handing out the well-paid jobs) – would think that much of me either. I expected more snow from them and was constantly bracing myself for it.
It’s been well over a year since I started down this road. I have had my trip-ups along the way, but it is only now, recently, that I don’t simply understand the theory that I deserve better – I *know* I do. I believe it. How great is that! Thank you Natalie – I will never forget what you have done for me, what I owe you, not ever; you are a wonder. And thanks all the fabulous ladies on BR! You are fabulous. Believe it!
Fearless,
In the workplace there is an additional pressure, because (no matter what pop-psychology says) we live in a patriarchal society that is male-centric, and males have more power (as documented over and over) and are the “default”. Women can succeed, but (also documented) have to work many times as hard as men to achieve the same position, salary etc. We are very much socialized into this and, I believe, many women and men have it internalized. I think realizing this is very helpful. I was also told I was supposed to act more like a man if I wanted respect from both males an females… I wonder how that translates into relationships outside the work? I have much less knowledge on that… I was told I had “all these rules” (as in not dating someone who is in a relationship already & lying). It looks like some guys do want “doormats.”
P
If acting “like a man” means anything, it’s not caring what other people think. It’s trusting yourself, not second-guessing yourself and not listening to how people say you should act. From what I’ve observed that’s the pivotal point of difference between men and women. We are in a time and a place where the main thing holding women back is ourselves – that’s assuming you live in a country where women have equal rights. Sometimes though women just don’t want to put in the hours or compete, or schmooze to reach the top. They’ve decided they’d rather spend time with the kids/dogs/knitting. I’m sure men have made that decision too (apart from the knitting), but they don’t feel as though society pressured them into it. My opinion may be skewed because I work for a very female-friendly workplace where women are doing very well indeed.
It’s true that very successful/crazy men do have a certain killer instinct that women may not. But most men don’t have that instinct either. I probably earn more than the average male in the UK. As the industrial landscape is changing, I think women are doing … all right. For sure, men still dominate the very top, but I think they also dominate the lower levels in terms of income/status too.
I’m not going to say the battle is won for women, especially not worldwide. But certainly in the UK you can be very successful. You could start your own business if you’re brave enough, and not have to deal with any bosses, male or otherwise. There isn’t a cabal of men plotting to stop you.
Yes, some guys do want doormats, but they’re not the guys you want. Some workplaces ARE sexist shiteholes, but you don’t have to work there. Bless the fact that you have a choice and go for what you deserve.
P
I believe where women are short changed in the work place it is because they have babies and men don’t. I believe that is all it boils comes down to. For a woman to have a life/career just like a man is able to she needs to not have babies or be well off to begin with or work her ass off day and night juggling twenty balls in the air at the one time. i also agree with Grace that generally speaking men don’t give a crap about what other people think of them and are not bending themselves over backwards to please any one else. I see it all the time in the way women get so worked up about the unreasonable demands of the idiot or the bully boss when men just tell him or her to take a run and jump. Men do not concern themselves so much with the concept of empathy.
My work place/profession is not dominated by men at all (though a disproportionate number of the most senior management positions are held by men). I don’t believe in my case that it was my gender holding me back in interviews; it was me, my lack of self belief – it was the imposter syndrome, without a doubt. Perhaps surprisingly it was the male interviewers who (in the main but not all) that I found more willing to get to the bottom of what I might actually have to offer and got the most considered, thoughtful and helpful feedback from. I actually found the all female interview panels the most stressful and least able to put me at my ease – which goes against my ‘men lack empathy’ theory!
I haven’t gone for any interview since my pre BR days – it was getting to the stage the very thought of an interview (almost) brought on an anxiety attack! I couldn’t put myself through it any more. But I suspect I would do a much better job of them now (and not worry myself into a nervous wreck!) and it’s because (I think) partly that I have come to see through the ex EUM that even the people you think are so ‘up there’, so intellectual, so awesomely clever and way more capable than I could ever be can also, so easily, turn out to be a total arsewipe! Now there’s a turn-up for the books!
Grace: I have been wanting to say the same thing to you that fearless has – “I always look forward to your comments and get so much out of them”.
I wondered why I have felt so drawn to them and was pleased to see a question to you on an older post, because you seem so ‘together’ it is hard to imagine you being tangled up in one of these wind egg (ie all puffed up, nothing there) situations. I have to say I have been waiting all my life to hear someone else say what you did – “it’s because my mother is crazy” – in exactly those words. Well, no need for any more about that. But thanks.
I have also been eager to read this post since it was mentioned and am so grateful for the clear, concise and unequivocal explanation of that toxic sense of unworthiness. It seeps into and erodes enjoyment, progress and achievement in so many areas of life. As ‘nature abhors a vacumn’ Miss incomplete sense of self is bound to attract Mr inflated sense of entitlement. That’s my story anyway, although it is beyond uncanny and well into embarrassing that every post speaks so directly to me. But thank goodness for that – the clarity is like the ‘gentle rain from heaven’.
For me, it’s the simplicity and power of the message that’s so freeing : it’s not rocket surgery, that well is poisoned, STAY AWAY!
ltg, fearless, grace,
I just have to echo how much you all and nat have done for me. My friends recently don’t recognize me for my insceurities are so rotton. They are used to the inflated ego that trodded around with all the grace of a mule in snow boots that now that ‘it’s all about me’ I am more like Molly Shannon in Superstar akward (sans the armpit smelling….okay maybe sometimes jk). There I go with the jokes again. Anyway it’s funny about the hair comment because I recently put in extensions in my hair trying to feel (and look) better (faking it) and rather than someone smiling at me because maybe I look nice, in my mind they are really whispering about how they can see my tracks (I don’t have those kind of extensions, but still maybe you get what I’m saying). i hope you do because I just lost my train of thought. Know whatever it was it applied greatly to your posts. Thank you all.
Choosing me everyday, what a fantastic affirmation and start to a new years resolution or well relationship resolution. I choose me everyday, love it, I can feel your strength coming through on that post too especially the part about habit. Did you know that it takes 28 days to make a habit or break one. Thats not a great deal, its just about trying to make the boring tasks fun and doing it everyday with a deliberate smile and a little treat, perhaps orange juice after the christmas i’ve just had… Hic! it works for everything, accounts, washing, telling your self how absolutely amazing you actually are and how unique it is to be the only one qualified to be you and there isn’t any point in trying to compare yourself to anyone unless you choose to model a characteristic and make that a habit too for 28 days. I’ve known women loose the weight they wanted by applying a little trick i know with this habit setter. Cheers Nat for helping us to create new empowering affirmations… This is so going on my Facebook status. May we set new happy habits in 2012 Have fun with it, I shall. 🙂 Where are my pink sticky note hearts xxx
Crystal, what’s the little trick in losing weight w/ the 28 day habit rule?? 🙂
Thank you Natalie! You have just described this annoying feeling that has been paralysing me! It is nothing but a suicidal “habit” that must be broken with complete change! Just do it!
Very insightful Natalie and particularly relevant to how I’m feeling today.
I would like to think of myself as a strong woman. I work hard to be the person that I am…but I do falter. Sometimes often.
I come from a family full of early deaths-mostly alcohol and drug related and have faced a lot as a result. The PTSD that I have has definitely slowed me. I am accomplishing things now that I thought I’d already have accomplished–for example it took me almost 8 years to get my Bachelor’s degree. I often feel fundamentally flawed and it doesn’t help that seemingly I choose people who reflect this belief (and deep fear) onto me (choosing an ex who used information I had given him against me–referring to me as a freak or psychotic).
I try to be happy with what I have achieved and I am to an extent but at times I do get resentful–then resentment leads to guilt that I’m dissatisfied in spite of the fact that things could be a whole lot worse. Also I beat myself up over my mistakes.
Learning to not be defined by your past and value your achievements is a very, very difficult and painstaking thing to do, I’m hoping to get there one day.
I know for definite though–I deserve better than crappy behavior.
I have been reading for several months and am very grateful for the wisdom posted here. I have recognized myself where I thought I would not. It can be a challenge to believe in myself, especially after going through times that eroded my self-esteem — all of which were so long ago but can come back like it was yesterday! Then, when I think I am “all better”, I find myself back in the old mode of thinking.
I’ve been doing yoga for a year, and it has made me take a hard look at myself. Some local websites asked me to blog on this and, where I’d usually shy away, something made me say yes. Now, I can’t stop writing. I’ve put all the posts into my own blog as well, and NML’s post made me think of one that I wrote on self esteem:
I showed the site to a friend who told me straight: You have to write it, then read it, then live it. So far, I think I’ve done the first two steps. Still working on the third.
I feel this way. My fear is if I carry myself and behave *better* then someone will come along and put a needle in my balloon. This comes from being put down, teased and criticized so much that I felt like I was under a microscope all the time. I’m wired to be knocked down if/when someone chooses to try and take the wind out of my sails. Now, I know no one does this unless I give my power to them. That’s a nice idea but how much longer do I have to keep feeding myself this positive stuff before it actually takes hold? I keep reading books and BR waiting for the one sentence that will finally turn a lightbulb on in my head on how to be 110% ok with myself.
Always remember: Being you doesn’t make you ‘fraudulent’ – it’s being all the things you think you ‘should’ be in order to win over others and avoid conflict.
I’ve been working with this being my authentic self and find it’s trickier than I thought. I find myself going along with others, especially if it is someone with a stronger personality than myself, when in fact I don’t agree with or feel the way they do. But my knee jerk is to go along so I am accepted all the while losing me even more. I don’t like that discomfort or knowing the person will dog me behind my back. I simply do not like it. It makes me feel icky. I guess I should get a recorder and have it on a loop of “I don’t give an ef what others think.” I have days when I think I know who I am and others where I don’t. I learned long ago the way I was was wrong or not right or whatever. Shaking that off is rough. Sometimes it feels like I am a hopeless case.
Color, if there’s one thing I do know it’s that changing a lifetime’s habit takes time. I’m 30, have had jacked up relationships for 99.99% of my dating life , and I felt the same frustration that even though I’d “gotten it”, it was taking major time to sink in. I still struggle with similar stuff and I think you just have to make a concious choice every day to do right by yourself. Every time you say “no” or “hmmm, wait…that’s unacceptable” you are getting somewhere. Take it one day, one minute, one interaction at a time and I think you’ll be very pleased with the results 🙂
I can feel the progress. Where before I’d have to fight to believe I deserve to feel genuinely enthusiastic about someone (true love? yeah right), I now see how I stopped believing that anyone was truly that happy in order to handle my not being able to find that happiness myself.
It’s funny, I had this thought today, that over the past year I have come to “own” my own accomplishments more, and have found deeper satisfaction in learning to take pride in the jobs well done, in seeing myself as respected, etc than feverishly pursuing the next big flashy accomplishment only to discard it emotionally within days. It occurred to me that I might see relationships that way: that unless I learn to feel proud of the relationships I create and “own” my successes, how will I ever “own” it when a potentially successful romantic relationship comes along?
If when I accomplish something major at work, I simply dismiss it or put it down to luck or think, oh, they don’t really know what an eff-up I am – will I do the same with my “accomplishment” in my love life?
No way, man. I want to think, yes, I did that and am proud. I chose well. I am happy with what I go out and make happen for myself. At work and in love.
My sister is in the final days of prep for her wedding before we all pack ourselves off to Italy for the big day. I find myself wanting to poke holes (in my own head) in the “reality” of her happiness. But the truth is that I would like to be as happy as she is. And I am working on making it a habit to believe that I can be that happy and that it is okay to aspire to it.
Self doubt is a nightmare. I get it the worst when I am in conflict with others since I do my best to avoid conflict. I have also had unhealthy programming that has second guessed me every time I fall out with someone. I have been taught to rationalise away my feelings. This is so much easier than standing your ground. I have been standing my ground and sticking up for myself a lot lately and it has been rough. With people around me used to me backing down, they know how to press my buttons to put me back to ‘getting onto their side’ in order to end the tension and pain and stress of fighting for my rights.
It really is hard. My advice is to find at least one person in your life who will say supportive things and help you to stay on your own side and do what’s right for you.
It’s amazing how you just happen to make a post about what’s exactly on my mind or whatever problem is going on in my life.
This relates to me but not only on a romantic relationship level but also on a general, social level.I suffer with loneliness and I’ve always been very shy and had few close friends. I sometimes lurk on facebook and I see people going out with big groups of friends and having a great time, enjoying and living life. I sit there and wish it was me but I realize I don’t truly believe I deserve that kind of life.
I never think that I’m pretty, cool, popular, skinny, interesting, or rich enough to live a life full of love and fun. On paper I know I’m funny, interesting and quite attractive but I don’t truly believe that or believe that people should want to be my friend or that I have something of value to offer to them. My loneliness is a huge part of the reason why I hung on to my EUM for so long- I felt like he was all I had and if he left I would be even more lonely and bored.
I have those same feelings of thinking I have to fake it in order for people to like me or find me tolerable. After reading endlessly about self esteem I think I finally understand what it truly means: believing and acting like you’re worthwhile WITHOUT feeling like you have to fake it.
The insight you have provided on this blog is absolutely invaluable to me. Thank you!
modvouge, are you sure you aren’t me? I’m exactly like that. In fact, I blocked or removed many FB friends whose lives were so much more fun and exciting than my boring one of sitting around wishing I had a social life. And I held onto my very-long-distance, married EUM for FIFTEEN years for the very reasons you mention. (I don’t have anyone else, I can’t let him go. Even though I never even had him either!) Since finding BR just over a week ago, I’ve finally had an epiphany and have been NC for 11 days with basically no urges to get back to him. I’m finally starting to see that I’m worth more. And once you start thinking you are worth more, the loneliness and boredom really does start to lift away like a black cloud finally dissipating….
haha yes, we very well may be the same person.
Good for you! Don’t waste another minuet on that EUM. And you’re absolutely right, believing that I’m worth more is making it so much easier to go NC. Before I used to have to use nearly all my willpower to stop me from calling him up and begging him to see me. Now that I believe I deserve better, and I know he has nothing but scraps to offer to me, ignoring his existence is becoming so much easier.
Although I have him blocked on fb, I recently came across a picture of him at some event with some girl grinding on him. And guess what? I didn’t even feel any particular emotion. I was rather indifferent. And he even looked quite unattractive to me. It feels so good!
Modvouge (cool name btw),
I can relate to much of what you say. My last two significant relationships featured a ton of psychological-effery (I’ve called it abuse before but it just seems to give them too much power). I got out as soon as I saw things for what they were, but despite being quite clear about how I had been treated in the relationship, i.e. knowing that the treatment had been sub, sub-par, I still missed – or rather, craved – the men and the drama-filled story.
It was very painful realizing that returning to my own ‘boring’, socially isolated life was less tolerable to me than abuse. At least the abuse was company and stimulation, right?
What I found particularly difficult is that while I envy people with vibrant social lives who are out and about with big groups of friends all the time, I don’t actually like the people who I think have those lives, nor the shallow quality of interaction they seem to have with those in their circles.
I have been learning to accept that I prefer solitude to certain kinds of socializing, and that I prefer a good one-on-one talk with a true friend than sixty airkisses and trades of wit about politics and pop culture. Only once I began to accept that I am naturally a lone wolf, and to love the positive parts of that, have I been able to go out and enjoy swanning about socially (I prefer swanning to flitting like a butterfly!).
Both my last exes enjoyed high profiles in wide social networks, a status that I envied. But one-on-one time with them sucked. I realized that unless I overcame the ‘shame’ of not being a social butterfly or alpha dog, I would be susceptible to wanting validation from these socially ‘powerful’ people.
True personal power in social situations, and a feeling of confidence in groups (even when the groups are ignorant, or snotty, people), doesn’t necessarily look like we think it does (ie. shows of popularity on FB, parties where the who’s who show up). Political power is something different, and often does, in fact, mean that you’ll get the mayor to show up at your event, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. I for one often get personal power and political power confused.
But I don’t want the second unless I have the first anyway. So I focus on really trusting myself, enjoying my own company, and learning to value everything that solitude can teach. Then I bring that self-trust into social situations and I find – ironically – my groups of friends expand.
“True personal power in social situations, and a feeling of confidence in groups (even when the groups are ignorant, or snotty, people), doesn’t necessarily look like we think it does (ie. shows of popularity on FB, parties where the who’s who show up). Political power is something different, and often does, in fact, mean that you’ll get the mayor to show up at your event, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. I for one often get personal power and political power confused.”
This makes so much sense to me! Thank you. I honestly have the habit of cowering in the face of people I perceive as super popular. As if because I know less people or because I’m not as widely admired, I’m less worthy than them. I simply cannot sit and wait until I magically become a “social butterfly” in order to feel like a worthwhile person. Screw that. Personal power and Social Swanning it is!
People who don’t have a high opinion of themselves don’t stand a chance of becoming social butterflies anyway.
Also,my EUM was very popular too. It was something I always envied him for as well. But based on the very fact that he’s an EUM it’s pretty obvious than even his closest relationships and friendships are superficial. He straight up told me: “Just because I’m social doesn’t mean I like people.” He even does his ~disappearing act~ on his best friend. And his other best friend (who’s female btw) lives in another country I think he reason he feels safe being “close” to her is because there is that physical distance between them. So yeah, you’re right. The quality of relationships is far more important than having a superficial connection with various people.
“This relates to me but not only on a romantic relationship level but also on a general, social level.I suffer with loneliness and I’ve always been very shy and had few close friends. I sometimes lurk on facebook and I see people going out with big groups of friends and having a great time, enjoying and living life. I sit there and wish it was me but I realize I don’t truly believe I deserve that kind of life”
Oh no! This sounds like me too! But I think it is a mis-perception thing as well. They can’t be like that all the time.
So true! What we think their life is like from just looking at pictures can be so misleading. They may have other problems that we don’t know about. Have to be grateful for what you have.
Thanks again Natalie. Its funny how I don’t feel like a fraud when it comes to my family life or work, I believe I have done a good job raising my teenage daughter and I have a decent well paid, secure job, and I live well with my family and friends. But when I became emotionally attached to my ex EUM I felt like I wasn’t good enough and couldn’t believe my luck. A friend of mine told me the reason I feel like that is because I only date or like a certain type of guy. Usually professional types that seem to have done well for themselves. She says I should date “regular” guys and maybe I might find that they are more down to earth. Maybe this is something I’ll change in the New Year, I’m willing to try outside my comfort zone if it means I’ll finally find happiness. This last guy I dated owned three properties and I felt embarassed to tell him that I didn’t own my apartment because I thought he would look down on me – how sad is that? Although I’m over the shock of him future faking me and then suddenly dumping me without a word much less explanation, when I eventually starting acting on the red flags my self esteem had gone, simply because I just felt I wasn’t good enough and although I didn’t tell him ANY lies I felt like he would think I was a fraud. When he ignored me I was so convinced of this it that it nearly drove me insane! If only I had seen my own worth from day one he probably would not have affected me. However, I have learnt my lesson! 🙂
Nat thank you so much for all your blogs. I’ve been guilty of this my whole life but recently have had a break through. I started a new job 3 weeks ago with a lot more money, opportunity and people that believe in me and see me as the professional that I am. The first week there I was so happy, usually in the past I would be waiting for ‘the other shoe to drop’ and not enjoy my accomplishment because I felt I didnt deserve it. But not this time. I relished in full the happiness of what I deserved, I truly believed that this time ‘the other shoe is not going to drop’ and that I deserve to be with people who appreciate me for what I am. And believe me, these people know more about my profession than anyone else so their opinion of me really counts. Tomorrow starts my 4th week and I still feel happy and deserving. And on the dating side, I am not even going there at the moment because I want nothing to ruin to feelings I have about me now.
SM, what do you do?
Magnolia, I am in sales specifically I risk manage large accounts. I’ve been doing it for a long time for a small company and have been successful until the last few years due to the economy. A very large company sought me out due to my reputation and asked me to come to work for them. Where before I was the only sales rep for a small department, I’m now in a very large department with other sales people with whom to measure my success and have found out that I have done quite well. At the smaller company they didnt really understand what I did as they had some other larger departments so when my sales started slipping they basically felt I wasnt doing my job. Where as the new company knows that it is part of the business.
Sorry I went on and on but basically anytime something wonderful happened for me, I wouldnt enjoy it because I felt something would come along to ruin my ‘moment’. I wasnt always like that but as I had one failed relationship after another, I began to get gun shy about everything even my career which has always served me well.
Wow, did I need to read this! I have been steadfastly refusing to get back into dating and I think a lot of it is down to this type of thinking. I feel like even though I’m respecting myself now, they’ll somehow “know” that I’ve been a doormat in the past and drop me for someone without the Scarlet FAL (Former Assclown Lover)! Intellectually, I know that’s ridiculous, but I can’t seem to shake it. I belive I’d better reread this one at least a few (twenty-seven) times. Hope everyone had a wonderful holiday! 🙂
I feel exposed; I complain and sabotage, a lot. In fact that’s all I do. It’s embarrassing really but I’m making a decision to no longer engage in this behavior. I’m going to respect myself like I would want others to do to me and take it one moment at a time. Thank you for this wake up post.
“Where you’ve been doesn’t have to define you…YOU define you”. Brilliant! Thank you for this! As always, fantastic post.
@ Cat – Wow! It’s like you read my mind! I too am trying to rid myself of my Mr. Unavailable and met a new guy and am having the same feelings. In fact, every guy that has treated me well I’ve picked apart and focused on the negatives until I finally pushed them away. It’s almost like I tell myself, if they’re that “into me” they must not be any good. Crazy – I know! I’m a work in progress too! This site is helping me through this.
Sandy
I have always struggled with self-esteem and for such a long time would act a certain way because I wanted everyone to like me. I too would change my behavior so that I would appear a certain way. In actuality, around people I am most myself with, I am opinionated and almost never allow myself to be walked on but out in the world, this part of me always seemed to die a significant amount.
All of this definitely extended to my “relationship,” mainly how I would withhold myself from speaking up and also setting boundaries. Instead, I let things fly because I didn’t want to seem needy or like I wanted too much. Oh the horror! Now I have realized that there is nothing wrong with stating what you want. That wanting a, b, and c doesn’t mean I’m asking for too much. It just means that I know what I want and I now know that I am deserving of it too.
It’s so weird because for such a long time, I have thought so little of myself and then along comes this guy who I think is amazing but turns out to be far from. Aside from blowing hot and cold along with other negative behaviors he also ended up hooking up with another girl who I found out he had used in the past at his convenience while I was away (which so happened to be right after he asked if I wanted to “label” and define our relationship as well). At first, I blamed myself, thought I wasn’t enough etc. But I was surprised at how little those feelings/thought patterns lasted. Instead, I have as a result finally started to see myself so much clearer. It’s like the endless fog has been lifted. The one I had grown all too familiar with. I have never felt better about myself than I do right now. I’m proud that I was able to take a negative situation and turn it into something positive for myself. I would have thought something like this would have broken me but it didn’t. Instead, it’s had the exact opposite effect which I find really interesting.
Oh Michelle, your experience still sounds similar to mine! I too thought I had met the ideal man, in the beginning he was chasing me relentlessly, but once I started to show genuine interest he started blowing hot and cold, we made plans, he let me down at the last minute (he apologised but didn’t make any plans to make it up to me) and then I find out that he had been seeing someone else, he started telling silly little lies, which for a 35 year old man, was pretty sad. Despite all of that I still kept wanting validation from him because I refused to believe he was not the one. Like you said I let things fly, because I didn’t want to appear needy or desperate, I just kept trying to play it cool all the time, look where it has got me. The feeling of not “being enough” passes sooner than you think because deep down you know its not true. He was never going to commit, whether it was you, me, or some other woman. I know it’s such a cliche but stay strong! That goes for me as well!
Stephanie,
Amazing how they all play the same game huh? I swear there is a manual out there they’re all reading haha. I think the main issue with me not feeling as if I were enough stemmed from the guy I was with having been in a 4 year relationship a few years prior to me. In his eyes he hasn’t “dated” anyone since even though there have been other girls etc.
Anyways, I thought well if he could date this girl for 4 years then why not me? I had thought up this prior relationship of his to be all kinds of wonderful yet when I finally allowed for rational thought I realized I didn’t really know anything at all. Plus, their relationship was long distance (she was in school for the entire time) and he once confided in my friend that they’d started dating because his ex had said so/started saying they were. Then he’d told my friend not to say anything. To me this showcases that he just went along with it because she’d already said they were together. For me, I want someone to want to be with me and not just go through the motions because they feel obligated and or didn’t want to backtrack and cause any drama. I don’t want to have to tell someone “this is what we are, commit!” Once I stopped thinking that he was a completely different person before me it helped greatly. Then Natalie pointed out people who were emotionally unavailable and married which made me realize that these individuals are highly complex to say the least.
my ex came to the door of my radio station the very minute i was leaving there for the christmas break. i had had no contact for 4 months. he brought homemade cookies made by his mom along with requests to see me, and inquiries like : was my email not working, what was my new phone number since the old one wasn’t answering … and what i was doing that minute.
i was pleasant but non committal but did offer to meet up tonight … but instead tonight i am sitting at home, enjoying peace.
i’ve FINALLY come to realize that what he has to offer me is nothing and that there is no reason on earth to accept. i may have not accomplished all that i could have yet in life but i have time to make it up and am trying to do so now.
i have been applying myself and deserve someone who works hard too and is good … and not someone who shies from a commitment. having a real commitment and family … that’s the ticket in life; that’s something that you can literally hold. his style of playboy hood leads nowhere … THAT is fraudulent living. i can’t wait to meet someone like Cat’s got because that sounds like the real thing … not a bunch of crap mumbling about why they can’t commit or never showing the decency of having an honest relationship talk. screw that.
Yayyy!! Totally inspirational!
“…not a bunch of crap mumbling about why they can’t commit or never showing the decency of having an honest relationship talk. screw that.”
Lol! I can second that!
Like many, I stumbled across this site when googling “commitment phobe” as a last ditch effort to ‘solve’ my latest ‘relationship’. Well! What a journey I began!
That day I discovered I was the commitment phobe & he was my epiphany relationship. 8 months of reading this blog, doing NC & “Get unstuck” etc, being on a dating detox, crying, being frustrated & angry & I have learnt ALOT about myself!
I thought I was ready to brave the world of men again about 2 mths ago but that experience turned itself upside down!!!
I was all set on paper. Everything made sense to me (actually, reading this blog sometimes I get a weird feeling Natalie knows me personally & is writing specifically for me! But from comments I see, many readers feel this!) So with my first venture into relationship world after my detox I wondered why I was getting involved with yet another AC?
THIS post just shone a starking light in my secret little sabotaging world! If I quote the specific part in this post that made my jaw drop it is pretty much all of it!
Yep, that’s me. Waiting for the other shoe to drop, secretly questioning why he was being so ‘nice’. What was he trying to hide? What will he think a few months down the track when he realises I ain’t ‘all that’?
Building self esteem, boundries, better quality friendships & relationships is hard work. But the travelling is much easier with the map. Thank you NML for your map (& compass!Lol). I’m ready for the ‘next phase’ in unearthing & facing my sabotaging streak.
This blog is truelly inspirational!
“Building self esteem, boundries, better quality friendships & relationships is hard work. But the travelling is much easier with the map.”
Exactly!
This is something that I struggle with greatly. I struggle to wrap my head around the concept that somebody “nice and normal” could actually have any genuine interest in me.
After my experiences, I am so used to being with people that are with me for what they can get from me rather than just because its me. I have kind of resigned myself that if anyone is to show any interest in me its coz they are out to use me for something or the other, so I prefer to stay away. I cant handle being used up and hurt again, the last one nearly destroyed me.
I am trying to change this mindset but its harder than I could have ever imagined. It all is connected to this feeling that I have that deep down that there is something inherently wrong with me that makes me unloveable. I can try act as confident as I can but I feel like they can all see it and all I could ever hope to attract is the lowest form of man with the way I feel and think now.
I continue to try change this mindset as hard as it is and baggage reclaim is really helping me try face some of my demons, so thank you NML for this wonderful blog.
The struggle continues…
“I struggle to wrap my head around the concept that somebody “nice and normal” could actually have any genuine interest in me.”
Yeah. This is what I think too.
You had it right when you said being “you” is a habit.
That statement can be looked into more closely through meditation or just plain consideration.
keep ’em coming, Nat! 🙂
Oh gawd….I’m so in it right now with a bad relationship situation with a Mr Unavailable. I’m scared how he will react and what he might do if I end it….I know I’m worth more but I am so stuck and can’t talk to anyone about it as I am ashamed I’m in this situation…I know better. I hope I can conjure up the strength to just get on with it….and change!!!
Alexine
“I know I’m worth more…”
I’m afraid the truth (at this point in time) is that, no, you don’t know you are worth more or you would be gone and doing better things with your time. Also, no-one should be in a relationship because they are too scared of what the other person will do if they end it. That’s like saying you’re being held hostage – if it’s that bad you perhaps should alert the authorities or get some serious back-up.
It’s about coming from a dysfunctional family. It’s about thinking that something is wrong with me because I grew up in a crazy environment, surrounded by intellectual, high society, NUTS.
I discovered that it was just easier to pretend that my family was normal because then I would be accepted…avoidi mistreatment. You know, when people find out you don’t have strong family ties, sometimes they treat you as if you are less than them, or maybe that’s just what I projected on them, but that is why I feel as if I am not good enough. How could I be good enough? How can I be normal? I’m not normal. I have scars from childhood. I have anger issues…anxiety…codependency. I’m a damn empath for goodness sakes.
It all sucks, and my journey gets to be pure hell some days.
Yes, I have self-love growing inside of me now, and I am so grateful, and I am grateful that I have a greater understanding of myself now…I’m so happy that for the first time in my life, I am healing.
But it is hard, and yes, talk is cheap, and some days, I get those thoughts that say, so and so is better than you…you haven’t accomplished enough…look at her…look at all she has accomplished. He would probably like somebody like her because she is better than you because you lack…and you know there is something wrong with you…. YOu can’t do that because you know you will fail because you can’t….
But. I got a great gift for Christmas though…. I read …”you are NOT your problems…it’s ok…you are ok because your problems are separate from YOU. And, I thought to myself, ok, I’m a codependent, empath, basically paralyzed by fear every day…struggling to find out just who the hell I am, enforce my boundaries, and get out of my comfort zone, and get a life…,but this lady is saying that I have a shot at a normal life.
So, yes, I believe, I deserve better…, but, yes, will I remember that? It is a day to day, correction of my thoughts…recovery is a real bitch, and that’s the real deal, and if you want it, sure sometimes you can change easily, but addictions…I find it a real fight, and you damn sure better want it.
Victoria, I thank you for speaking from my heart as well as yours! Last January I went NC with my narcissistic mother, and of course I caught hell for it from other family members, but I have been strong and have tried to always put my own thoughts and feelings first.
I’ve been reading here for over a year now, but this is my first post. Last January I also cut off a man whom I realized was an EUM, thanks to this site. Now I read the articles to prepare myself for the future day when I will be looking for a man again.
Here’s to 2012, BR readers! May we treat ourselves with all the love and care we’ve been giving others for so long!
V.,
IMHO, empath+dysfunctional family = very, very difficult. Sometimes staying in the comfort zone is good for a while…. opinions differ, and I mean professional opinions. Difficult also to find an understanding therapist. Hopefully this is not too much off topic?
Gina C_
Almost a year of NC with a Narc mother…. it’s been peace ever since… 🙂
This was a *beautiful* post.
Its interesting – just over a year ago I took on a job that was a progresssion for me, one I knew I had the skills to do (more than!). It all started well but after 6 months things started going wrong – I was constantly being told I had done things wrong, I wasn’t trusted – I felt like a fraud – maybe I was wrong about myself? My mother had always told me I was conceited if I said good things about myself – maybe I was being vain and conceited in believing I was good at my job? This all came after 2 years of the AC telling me every other month what an awful person I was….I began to truely believe it. Truely. I’ve been low but this has been bad.
Then I realised my boss behaves like my mother and the ex and the AC. This is why I have felt so unhappy and like I’m walking on eggshells. My boss doesn’t communicate, goes into moods if it doesn’t go their way, refuses to accept responsibility for anything, regularly blames those around them…..its awful and realising that it wasn’t me was a big step forward. I met a professional business consultant as part of my job and she pulled me to one side and talked to me. She said I had great skills, she could see it so why couldn’t I? She knew I knew I had them but was refusing to BELIEVE in them. Why??
Like many others on here I’ve been told I’m rubbish so many times, I hadn’t realised how much it was affecting me. But NO MORE. It is time to accept me for me. I like me, some others like me and if some people don’t then hey ho – thats life! I will do whats best for me, because I know it to be best for me and I will live by those actions.
Can I just say too….on Christmas Day I blocked the AC number. Its taken time but I’ve finally realised the damage that has been done, how destructive my relationship with him has been. Its done now. He can’t contact me anymore. I’m not carrying this on in 2012. Thanks Natalie
jane
this is where boundaries will help you. Don’t internalise your boss’s crappy behaviour. It’s not about you. That said, sometimes it’s just not worth it, in which case you can always get another job.
One of the few times that I felt a recruitment consultant was being honest with me was when we were discussing the kind of person I would want to work for. I said I’d had enough of working for difficult people and he said, in a very heartfelt way, “Yeah, what’s the point? There are enough nice people out there”. And it’s absolutely true. Plenty of decent people out there, including men.
If you like the job, stick it out, it could lead to better things but don’t fall into the trap of trying to get your boss to be a better boss. You don’t need that validation, it’s just a variation of trying to get a useless man to be a proper boyfriend.
There’s a book on amazon “how to work for an idiot” which may be helpful. I’ve not read it but at the very least it sounds funny and sometimes humour will get you through the day.
Thanks Grace – I figured that out. And it is a choice. I had thought it was me but I know now it isn’t – and why would anyone want to work in that environment!? Its been hard (espec for me with major codependant issues) but I’ve been saying to myself…’its not me’ over and over. No, the job isn’t worth it so I’m looking elsewhere but aware that my confidence is so shot I’m not coming across well. I will get there. I know what I have to practice and I will. As for being a fraud…..I have just seen my kids off to their dads until New Year – it has broken my heart they won’t be with me and all because I have believed he is better and that they deserve better. Thats rubbish! I think I’m crying because at last I feel the pain. I’m not doing any of this anymore. I’m the person who survived being married to him, who cares for and raises two children, who bought a house and renovated it lovingly to provide a home, who completed a degree whilst getting divorced and moving home, who got through another crappy relationship and is still standing. Iam strong!!! Of course I am!! I suspect the evidence is there for all of us – we need to believe it!
Jane,
someone just told me recently:” Why don’t you see how many awesome things you did?” I did not know how to respond… It’s so great you made a list like that!
I have an issue with getting married which I think is linked to this post.
The thought of being a bride on her wedding day fills me with horror. I would feel like a big fraud. I don’t want anyone looking at me, never mind for a whole day, I don’t want to be the centre of attention, I don’t want people to see my bonkers family (well, just my parents).
What’s really telling is that if I were to get married, I’d want to marry the kind of man who wants a proper wedding – with family, parents, the big public celebration, the whole lot (but no swans, I’m not bridezilla). I just don’t want it for myself. Can I get a stand-in?
I also love other people’s weddings. I’m that person who wells up when the bride comes down the aisle and when the vows are being exchanged. I’m not cynical at all about weddings but feel cynical about my own. The thought of me gallivanting about in a wedding dress, cutting cake, dancing and stuff makes me feel physically sick.
It’s not even to do with shyness. I was at my sister-in-law’s wedding and she’s very shy. She was loving the whole thing.
Is this why people elope?
PS For those of you who know I’ve been married – we did it in a registry office in Thailand with no guests.
Grace, there is a difference between not wanting to be centre of attention and not wanting the attention because you feel a fraud. You can feel great about yourself but still not want all the pomp. Which is it because don’t beat yourself up about something you don’t need to. Thank you for your comments to me – I had the big wedding the first time round – it became a complete bazaar with hundreds of his family, people I didn’t know and only 20 of mine! The photos were a scream! My little group on my side and all his on his side. Even then it was all for show. I knew it deep down. On the day wanted to call it off but had a valium and dreamed my way through it! That speaks volumes. Weddings are not what its about – its about the depth beneath…one of the most loving weddings I ever attended had a small group of people that mattered, no show, some nice food and off home for bed. That was their authentic its up to us to find ours.
Grace:
I did the whole “not wanting them to look at me nor being the centre of attention thing” on my wedding day… very cheap… still resulted in an end…
I think it just has to do with not being an actress who is performing… I always thought a wedding is so so so personal… but, that didn’t help me much, in the end…
On a side note: I’ll NEVER forget my Narc mother, glaring at me with hate in her eyes the entire simple ceremony…. wow… Nat really opened my eyes… I made excuses for N-Mothers look: I claimed that she must’ve had the sun in her eyes…
Which is the same stupid-azz excuse we give to these men…
Dear virtual friends, I’m back! Mainly because I was looking forward to a topic of this kind. And no, this time it’s not about my ex, but about the guy I’m seeing right now (think “discovering phase”). For those who remember some of my last comments, it’s the 23 year’ old friend I gradually fell for, and who I still believe is a wonderful person. This guy, in the 10 months of knowing him, treated me better than most of my ex-boyfriends and male friends. He never upset me with *anything*. However, I discovered he has lots of inferiority complexes. He always talks himself down, from simple things like calling himself “obese” just for a little bit of tummy, or not beleving me when I compliment him. Earlier this month, I went to his city for an event, and afterwards I stayed for 2 days at his place and met his family. What I discovered is that his mum is very cold and strict towards him, and he, by contrast, is very sensitive, loving, and, as I call him, “a cuddling machine”. 😉 She even put him down in front of me in some moments. Besides, right now he is going through a rough time from all points of view: professional difficulties, he is upset with many people, he is hardly in the mood for anything, and I know it’s not about me, as some other friends also noticed his state. But this state has its consequences on me as well, as I felt he is pulling away a bit. He promised me this period shall pass, and I hope it will. Next time I will see him is in the first part of February. Till then, I’m trying to be supportive, and not turn my back on him, but at the same time, I don’t want to suffocate him. Natalie, you will probably tell me I’m not responsible for his issues and for boosting his confidence, but I’m really sad about him.
Sandra
The problem with dealing with those who’ve suffered abuse in childhood (sexual, emotional, physical) is that we are not bad people – understanding, sensitive, tolerant (maybe too tolerant), even very affectionate. However, we are not the best candidate for a relationship until we have 80-90% (trying to quantify it!) dealt with our issues. Which can take some of us a very long time – I’m talking decades.
At some undefinable point, we are likely to bail. We are a flight risk. We either stay in the relationship, gradually walling ourselves off (you may not even notice, we can do it while under the same roof) or sabotage it completely (cheating). Long distance suits us very well because it ‘s just about as much intimacy and closeness we can deal with. Even now, I think I still have a preference for LDR as it wouldn’t disturb my life. But I don’t go there because I know that for me it’s Not A Good Thing.
Maybe you two can buck the trend (it does happen) but be on your guard. Don’t let the fact that you feel sorry for him and empathise with him blind you to any substandard behaviour. Which includes ignoring you and blowing you off. Otherwise, the person you’re likely to be feeling sorry and sad for is yourself, and with good reason. Time and time again the tables have been turned – you feel sorry for him, and then one day you realise he’s done you over.
Grace, as always, you are helping to put my thoughts in order. And I think you’re right, although maybe in his case “abused” is too big a word. I would just say “unloved by his mum”, but his dad is literally the old version of him. And here’s the thing, this state he is in is very recent (1 month maximum). Since we met, in February, there has been a visible and gradual evolution in our relationship. There is the distance, but every time we saw each other, we grew closer every time, and kept in regular contact when we didn’t see each other. He is very “transparent” – I always know where he is and who with – we also have many common friends who can confirm. 😉 I even used Natalie’s guide for a new relationship and for a new LDR, and, even if ours is not yet a relationship, I answered “yes” to most of the criteria. Now I can’t say he is ignoring or disrespecting me, but he looks sad, absent-minded, and not as cheerful as he used to be. He even invited me to spend the summer holiday with him and his friends (who are also my friends), and afterwards he wants me to take him to my city of origin. However, I think you are right that he needs to deal with his own issues. I can’t know the solution to his problems. His problems and insecurities are several, and I think they may influence his views of the relationship with me. My intention is to leave things “loose” for a while (not to close, but not too distant), and focus on myself and other committments until I see him again. Pushing for explanations and confessions is not an option!
“The problem with dealing with those who’ve suffered abuse in childhood (sexual, emotional, physical) is that we are not bad people – understanding, sensitive, tolerant (maybe too tolerant), even very affectionate. However, we are not the best candidate for a relationship until we have 80-90% (trying to quantify it!) dealt with our issues.”
I can relate to this. But there comes a time to get out of the comfort zone and break through the wall / our own protected fantasy world. It is comforting but also discomforting because we know we are faking ourselves.
Sandra, I am in a similar situation. Grace’s advice is something to think about, as always. Where I am hesitating is that I have flaws and baggage too and I feel I need to be more open to others who are genuine and honest people who happen to have flaws too instead of just writing them off, black and white. Yes, some flaws are not okay to overlook and it’s figuring these out where my brain goes into grey area. I can’t offer any advice, as I am in the same boat. I know now how to spot an AC and tell them to get lost but it’s the nice guy with some issues that is the new challenge for me. How perfect do we need them to be or how flawed will we accept and where do we draw the line? This is tough for those of us who have accepted the worst shit treatment in our past. I don’t want to end up so intolerant that I am like the queen in Alice in wonderland and say “off with his head” without giving good people who have problems just like me a chance. Then again there is a chance my head is trying to burrow into the sand again. The difference is that I am way more aware of these things now and do have my microscope out….just trying to decipher what I’m seeing without getting lost in all of it. I trust myself enough not to lose myself this time and will make the right decision, even if it takes me a little extra thinking. And another failed relationship.
You are sooo right, Jenny! The thing is, even by having studied the material about how to spot an EUM/AC, I was saying “that’s NOT him”. He was always reliable in times of need, even from a distance, always kept his promises, didn’t try to rush anything in the relationship with me, and he was never reluctant to involve me in his life. A funny episode was that this last time I came, there was a possibility for me to arrive earlier, but he was not in town (he arrived the same day as me). But, if I had come earlier, he offered to send me to his house anyway, with his folks, *in his absence*. Note: this was the first time I met his parents, so at that time I didn’t know them. 😀 How many guys would have done that?? I don’t know what to say…some days ago, a friend of ours asked me how much I was willing to wait for him to come around. There is a risk for him to “bail”, also given the fact that he is still very young, and I’m 6 years older (but when they see me people think I’m his age 😛 ). He might even *genuinely* think that he’s not good enough for me, given the way he thinks about himself. I think…with the risk of sounding tough, that I would still keep my mind flexible about dating other people, despite the fact that I really like him and care about him. Am I wrong to do so?
sounds like i will be facing this aswell after my no-dating. At the moment unluckily am still at that stage where we are about to have a lawyer battle. Its so frustrating he says in emails one thing and does the opposite, am still struggling to get to know what was fake and what was real after 4 month. At the moment it seams everything in the last years was fake. Sorry am just feeling a bit soorry for myself. But it was not easy to see red flags with this guy, he hid the dishonesty and disloyalty pretty well. So if i would be dating again i would immediately feel like this is just another faker.
One of the things I did with the No Dating Rule was to shut off electronic communications- shut down MSN, delete online dating profiles (haven for EUM, multiple dating and string-alongs, a dime a dozen!), call after being texted (people soon stop texting a lot when they get callbacks), and I never ever add dates to facebook (kills off facebook ping pong).
Basically, you raise the ‘barrier to entry’ so they have to expend a bit of their time in exchange for yours.
Hello Natalie and ladies, thank you for you’re posts, in particular @ Magnolia, you always help me as I can relate so much. I have learned a lot about me from my 51/2 year relationship with the ex EUM/AC and I’m learning a lot more about me from Natalie and you guys and I have a lot more to learn, to re-use the term some of you ladies use, I am a work in progress. I think it’s nearly 5 weeks NC although we exchanged a few text messages to arrange for him to collect some of his stuff from my house, which is still in his name, so we will continue at some times to have minimal contact but I am insisting this is done via text messages as he has proved that he can’t keep conversations to the matter in hand. I know when I have the house in my name things will then be completely over and I can then delete his number and I know I deserve better, I do know that, I have experienced imposter syndrome all my life but am coming out of that phase and doing really well in lots of areas but I still can’t help thinking that the ex was punching below his weight when he went for me, in particular looks wise as he is very good looking and I also, to my horror, realised that everything is kind of still about him, for example, I’m thinking, yeah I’ll do that cos he will or won’t like that and I realised I am still secretly harbouring the thought that somehow, someway we will get back together, that he will realise that he wants to be with me and sort himself out!!!! Is this normal??? I’m not interested at all in meeting anybody else until I am fully recovered or is it just that I secretly want to save myself for him??? Why cant I be normal??? I do miss the nice bits of the relationship but I know it was very unhealthy, he is very committment phobe but then I must be, I’m going to get myself a cuppa now and start reading Nats book again, I don’t think I was mentally able to really take it in the first time I read it a few months ago, before I let the EUM/AC worm his way back into my life for the purpose of dropping me like a ton of bricks because he wanted to be the one to ‘end’ the relationship, as I was the one to end it prior to that. He got me pouring my heart out, telling him I loved him and how we could make it work and all the time he had met somebody else which he never told me about, I found out by chance! Im struggling a little today but can’t really talk…
@lovingme sounds like we are having some things in common 😉 Mine was also already having another on the go when he broke it off that i found out much later. Mine also uses the house to communicate with me, which at this point is strictly getting done over lawyers.
Will try the more postive route of concentrating on myself now and to be good to myself . Hope it will really only last 28 days
Question: do these men think there’s a broken woman, I’ll peruse her till she’s mine then I’ll use her till she can’t take no more?
I know the ex AC/EUM always thought he was better looking than me and was punching below his weight, arrrggggh, I think I’m doing well then I start missing him, realising I still love him then start hating him again!!!! But the one thing I won’t do is break no contact and at the end of January I’m going to India for a few months anyway but I want to recovery properly from this as I don’t ever want a repeat performance! Maybe it’s just time eh, it’s only been 4 or 5 weeks NC, I need to check that
Thanks for the kind words, lovingme. Yes, I think 4-5 weeks is still pretty fresh for NC if you’ve been quite invested; and living together certainly counts as that. Great plan to head off to India! Lucky you!
I was on the verge of crying, telling my youngest daughter about the latest thing my assclown said to me… she didn’t know exactly what he had said, but she sarcastically said, “Surprise, suprise”! Wow! That came from a 22 yr old, even she sees it for what it is. She was really saying that I shouldn’t be surprised because this is how the story goes and will never change.
He made the statement, “I’ve been upfront with my intentions, not pure or honorable by any stretch of the imagination, but honest none the less”.
She was saying I deserve better and will never get it from him… it’s that simple.
…Yet they don’t believe in themselves enough and more destructively, they don’t believe that they deserve to be treated in line with what they recognise to be healthy.
Hopeful, other people always see it for what it is – we don’t cos we are in denial. Don’t waste your time trying to convince some assclown that you are better than this and start believing that you actually are better than this.
We expend a lot of emotional energy trying to convince some clown that we deserve better than his crappy relationship behaviour but it’s very hard to convince someone of something that we patently do not believe in ourselves. It’s like putting a fifty pence price tag round your neck (in flashing neon lights) and then complaining that he doesn’t think you are worth much more than that. Why would he?
When is the last time you went to the ‘sales’ rack in the department store and then went up to the counter and offered to pay the full price? Does anyone do that? If you want to get what you are worth you need to get yourself off the knock down price rack and make sure your price tag reflects what you are actually worth. The thing we understand about these AC/EUM, though, is that they are not up for paying the full value – they are only shopping in the bargain basement stores and that’s why they are picking us and we are too fearful to demand our full price and keep knocking the price down because we know that if we don’t do that they’ll leave the store and go somewhere cheaper. Let them go somewhere cheaper – before your price tag ends up reading “any old shite”. You don’t want their custom! Let them go shop at some other bargain basement store cos that’s all they’re looking for, and then get your right price tag round your neck. That’s the answer.
Beautifully clearly said, Frearless!
My ex said to me; “you don`t know how good you are, do you?” and then ” please, don`t ever change” Well, I am changing and starting to know how good I am. 🙂
This was a very awakening read for me. The last guy I was dating said that he “got all the girls with low self esteem” not long after we met. I didn’t take that to heart(thinking he meant I was different than the others), because I thought my self-esteem was ok at this point in my life. I had an eating disorder when I was young, and had been a perfectionist, but I thought I was past all that now.
This post reminded me of the things I have been troubled by post-breakup. I guess I have found that you have to forgive yourself for mistakes in the past, and hopefully not carry them into relationships. I was very guilty of seeking validation from him and from others. It’s a long road back to trusting and validating oneself!
One question I am still trying to find the answer to is: how do you know who your valid self is? Especially when you feel like you’ve spent years as an actress (trying to please people and be validated)? Any thoughts?
This is exactly what I’ve been doing. The guy I’ve been dating long distance has all but disappeared after our relationship talk and instead of writing him off as a jerk, I sent him cute little texts and tried to coax him back. Deep down I know I deserve better – someone who cares enough to stick around or at least has the decency to tell me straight up he’s not interested instead of just ignoring me. Same goes with the MM – he’s been in and out more than I care to admit to myself.
I let guys walk all over me because I’m scare to set boundaries, because I just don’t want to do anything to scare them off even more or ruin my chances of them coming back. I let them reinforce the idea that goes back to my childhood that I’m just not worth it. I get used to the pain and the rejection and tell myself it’s my fault.
I am guilty of this in relationships and at work. In relationships, I fear that they will get bored of me once they get to know me…..that I am boring when I am being myself. Part of this for me was being told by the ex AC that I was boring and didn’t like to have fun. Which meant I didn’t like to drink numerous shots of whiskey or go out to the bars or constantly be in groups of friends (his). A different ex used to criticize my looks because I didn’t wear heels or much make up. Trying to conform to either one of these guys expectations just made me feel hollow and fake. I prefer nature, hiking, quiet places and small groups. This is fun to me. I rock climb, kayak, fly fish, surf and many other things outside. This is where I am my best and feel at home. I mostly brush off what these bozos said now but have moments when it creeps back up into my conscience. I feel confidence in myself when I am alone or doing the things I love, but it is how others have little confidence in me that rattles me. I do feel like I get underestimated or misunderstood, then I become a trapeze artist to prove myself. Validation seeking…….still. Such a hard habit to break. I like who I am but have ended up with men who try to change me into their ideal girl instead of admiring the way I am. That would be called picking the wrong men!
I have a career in the medical field that I feel no passion for. I want to change this and start a new career but lack the confidence to strike out and really change things up. I also feel like people will see me as a fraud if I start to paint or do sculpture…….like I am pretending to be an artist but don’t have the real capacity. Yet, I can paddle out alone into the ocean without any fear. There is nobody to fail but myself out there alone.
this sounds like me, not afraid to ride many hundreds of kilometers on my bike alone up and down the highways were I live, but to afraid to look in the mirror and see me.
jen, paint and sculpt and write and express every last part of you in whatever creative mode that you choose. What you do for work pays your bills. If you can manage to combine it all it would be great but don’t worry about what others think of you doing these things…many artists weren’t appreciated by many and their passion for their art was what sustained them. You are giving in the medical field. What you do in arts and phy activity is giving to you. But to develop any skill and talent takes effort…if you want it you can do it. After your sharing of your poem and the clarity and sensitivity of your writing on this blog I can see that you have much that is just waiting to be expressed in the arts…go for it. You may share it with others, you may not, but just doing it gets you into the flow of incredible experience and it is highly therapeutic…perfect for all moods…DO IT! Do it for YOU.
I recently read Natalie’s book. I was dealing with a guy with lots of issues,alcoholism and a girlfriend ( that I didn’t know about). It had been pretty casual until one night he called and I had to go and pick him up because he was drinking and could’t drive. He recently had gotten a DUI and had that device installed on his car, that u need to blow into to start the car. And that set something in motion for me. I really wanted to try to connect with him and thought I had so much to offer him. That’s when something inside said.” this is completely insane”. So grace brought me to “Mr Unavailable and the Fallback girl” and this blog. I realized that this wasn’t me of today acting out towards this guy. It was the little girl inside of me. The one that needed her Dad to choose her over alcoholism. It was such a life changing moment for me. I was discussing this with a friend, and as Ive come to a lot of self discoveries this year, I asked is this going to keep happening to me? I’m going to keep having these movements of enlightenment and self discovery , for the rest of my life? As this can get overwhelming finding out so much of the work you need to do on your self. Her response to me was “if you’re lucky”. I think that is the lesson here. This is a journey not a destination. Here I am, 37 years old, mother of two, I live in a affluent area in a nice home, I’m even a member of a country club. And really I believe I’m some sort of fraud. That is “really” suited to picking up alcoholics in the middle of the night and trying to make him see me for who I am. When in reality the only one that needs to “see me” is me!
Yoshi, the ending to your post was beautiful. On the outside I dont look like a fraud at all and I am not, but I’ve been acting like one when it comes to my choices in men. I am a very respectable, keep my nose clean, decent looking and financially sound person. But you wouldnt know it by the men I’ve chosen to date, oh they all had jobs but their personal lives were rotten to the core and they were the frauds. I cant take anymore hits in the reputation department with my choices of men. Its time I see myself for who I am too.
Thanks SM. This really made me understand. That what we really think of ourselves Is reflected in the men we choose. It may not come out in the other things we choose for ourselves jobs,education, social status But, when it comes to choosing a person to love us self esteem really comes out. I have children and I have no problem enforcing boundaries when it comes to them. I would never let the guys I’ve dated, since my divorce, be around my kids. I know they are not worthy. Yet, for myself sure why not? Sounds absolutely nuts when I put it in writing. But, I was aware it was happening!,
Yoshi
“…what we really think of ourselves Is reflected in the men we choose.”
Yes, so true. This is why so much of the advice on BR is about taking the focus off of ‘him’ and putting it back onto ourselves – he (the bad choice) is not going to help us make better choices!
“You’ll do it for a while and see genuine, positive results and feel them…and yet, you won’t associate yourself with them because you don’t internalize the good things you’re doing for yourself. Funny enough though, if it’s something negative, you’ll probably have no problem associating yourself with it…” yep you got me – even years later its still the same insanity. Not in relationship with others but certainly in relationship with me. I am not as wonderful as everyone seems to think I am so I sabotage myself – to prove I am not. This time injuries for overdoing it. Great… possible surgery so now I can’t do the good things I was doing for myself and seeing progress that others would give positive feedback on is on the back burner. Sorry but WTF and why – imposter – poser. So can’t do it physically so… no one can say nice things that make me uncomfortable… so assbackwards – great post Nat you always seem to know what I am thinking…
Thanks for this.
After a dating hiatus of a year, I’ve started seeing a guy who seems decent, interested, and available. The whole thing is such a radical departure from my past patterns that I’m tempted to act up and make drama just to make the relationship seem “normal” to me. I have thus far successfully resisted the urges, but I’m still feeling a little bit of a fraud, even armed with my new values, boundaries, and strong sense of self-love.
When I’m tempted to create some drama because of my own fears and insecurities, I’ve found it helpful to meditate on the following mantra:
“I am valuable, worthy, and deserve love.”
And the drama urge subsides.
Best wishes to all for 2012 and beyond,
Cheers!
This post is so pertinent and I guess any female who is putting up with the myriad of BS from these unavailable, lying, two-faced, using f***wits, is going to have self-esteem issues, else we wouldn’t put up with the tonne of rubbish they fling at us. Towards the end my ex MM didn’t even bother his ass to lie to me anymore, he just told me straight about his harem and even tried to get me to advise him on how to handle some of the situations other women presented him with. He knew he could insult me in every which way and that I was that ‘broken’ woman who would doormat herself for him.
@LovingMe, yes I think they do know we are, or should I say, ‘were’ broken in some departments because they see us ignoring blatant red flag behaviour, eg, being stood up, being offered crumbs etc etc.
However, the delight of this post for me is the notion that its just ‘habits’ we have formed, and we all know that habits can be broken and changed for better habits. I do feel I have now conditioned myself, largely via believing and rereading the blogs and posts on here for the past 3 years, sometimes in an OCD manner; plus a personal consultation with Nat. It does work. The positive reinforcement has somehow ‘re-patterned’ me into a healthier shape, I have now internalised new and positive thinking habits. And I dont have ‘imposter syndrome’ anymore; not at all. When I did my degree 15 years ago I felt like I’d be found out for cheating, even though I hadn’t cheated. This year I finished my Masters and just felt brainy and smart and happy at my achievement.
I truly believe that if I can achieve that new and healthy state of mind then anyone can.
Lets all forge on in 2012 for our new and healthy selves.
Thank you gals, oh and how do we put a picture on here ? I find it really helpful to see photos next to the names as it triggers memories of previous blogs, I’ve searched around and cant seem to upload a photo of me.
Thanks gals
Kim (((((hugs))))))
kim, I think you can use clipmarks, but I’m unsure as my computer will not download the application…I looked at details on pics that arrive on this blog and there is an address you can check out. Unless anyone chooses to give you the response to the query I’m unsure how you will get the answer…I’ve seen it asked before. For visual people it is helpful and very easy for us to find who we’re looking for by their photo identity…hopefully Mags or Nat or Bri or Barbara will tell you how they did it. I did an internet query and found some directions with code…did not try it…but I think you will find the answer…I h0pe so as I wouldn’t mind doing it myself.
Thanks Leissha, yes I’m very visual and like pictures to remind me of ideas. I’ll keep clipart in mind when I choose a photo, however, its more that I cant find the spot on Nats site where you can upload a photo or picture next to our names.
I’ll keep looking.
Kim X
Ladies, avatars for most sites are done centrally through gravatar.com and are based on your email address. I know that some email providers such as gmail automatically pull an image if you have it set to do so.
I soooooooooooo love this post Natalie! 🙂
“This” is exactly where I am at–choosing me every day. I’m in a strange state right now: I’m really happy; I’m excited about life. I’m applying what I have learned over the past 8 months, while still learning more every day…still working on my journey every day, and believing now that I can move past my childhood…KNOWING, that I may have flaws, but despite my flaws, I AM GOOD ENOUGH. Thinking that I wasn’t good enough for my superman-last-ex–yes, that WAS me.
Now, I appreciate me, and I love me, and I don’t feel alone because I know that I have ME. It is funny because when I am physically the only person in a given place, I just say to myself, I have me, and that’s really all I need with the exception of my Higher Power. Yes, I want other people in my life; I love my son, and I always want him in my life, but I have this peace now that I know that I have ME, and me will look out for me, and be there for me, and it’s all good with me. 🙂
The other thing I wanted to say was “yes” I have started internalizing my accomplishments. Finally! I have been thinking about what I have accomplished, patting myself on the back, and saying, look at what you did, now dag gone it that was you, and you can do this and that now, so let’s make it happen.
Oops, yes, one more thing, I am defining me, and I’m constantly making sure that I am being true to myself–authenticity. People are funny because I’ve noticed how they seem to automatically test my boundaries; I’ve become quite the hard-$%^ when it comes to enforcing my boundaries, and sometimes I let some things go…choosing my battles, but I’ve discovered the beauty in silence–not concurrence, but more of I’m not going to explain my boundaries to you; I don’t have to …. I just detach, and say ok, what do I need to do take care of myself in this situation, and then I take action, no not always easy, but I’m worth it–ALWAYS 🙂 :).
Happy Holidays Natalie! Thank you for your wisdom and leadership. I truly thank you with all of my heart and soul.
Wishing everyone a wonderful holiday season ~~~
……thank you
As I´m overseas right now visiting my parents for the holidays, I see myself turning into the 9 year old girl afraid of what her Dad might think if she did what she wanted to and not what he wanted to. I see myself trying to justify my acts and explaining why going out with my friends is actually a good thing, up until two days ago. My dad didn´t want to lend me his car and so I just opted to catch a cab! I felt liberated, but at the same time I was afraid that my Dad would think I´m a bad daughter for going against his will )I´m 31 years old!, but as I was talking to one of my good male friends, I realized how much of me I have buried to please others and make them see me in good light.
One of my main resolutions this New Year is to stop pretending and start living. This is my life and not a dress rehersal. I have to stop playing myself down to others even if they´re family. I am who I am and I freaking like it that way. And this goes to future dates as well…what you see is what you get. No more, no less. Because if I pretend to be someone for the sake of someone else liking me, it will get to the point where I won´t even like or believe myself anymore.
No words could be more truer than ¨to thy own self be true.¨
am gonna receive a nice lawyer letter of my ex AC tomorrow due to the house. What kind of nastiness is it gonna hold this time? I so wish i could feel above it all, but i cant, i feel like a little kid cornered crying. I do know that i deserve better, but in these situations i dont feel like the grown up woman i should be. I feel like really i am a scared little kid dressed up as a grown up. But yes i will fight!
OMG I seriously was going to take another break from posting anything because I keep finding myself trying to make stupid jokes and getting a laugh rather than getting or offering any help (attention seeking I think – here of all places) but this is something I so have been doing lately. I keep literally shrugging off any achievements I’ve made…like they just happened or someone decided to give me something ‘just because.’ I have to be really careful though, because of my nonexistent healthy ego issues, not to use any accomplishments as a way to sabotage, dismiss or exclude myself from potentially good people or situations (I don’t know if I’m saying that correctly.) Still, I gotta say, if I put half the effort into healthier endeavors as I did trying to be the exception with my ex, I’d have a hellofalot more to show for it. My awareness is kind of turning on like a sports stadium. There is no one light switch…it’s like click, click, click…each section getting brighter as the whole thing lights up. THANK YOU
Thank you fearless! I love the bargain basement analogy! I think I’m finally beginning to ‘get’ all of this. I even told him I was better, but then I would turn around in the next instance and gladly accept whatever he was giving. It’s hard to know what you’re worth when no one has ever really made a good offer, you don’t really know what a good offer is, have never held yourself to a higher price, etc. I don’t know exactly what love, care, trust and respect looks or feels like, but I damn sure can and have felt what awful is. I am like a misbehaving child, any attention is better than no attention. I am reminded of one of the lyrics in the song “Almost Doesn’t Count” that Brandy sings… “and all that I can give you is what you came here for. I never really got that until now. You would think that after being told time and time again that was all he wanted, I woulda believed it? But then again, I guess I didn’t want to. I looked like a million dollar price tag, that’s what I was hoping for… I wasn’t even on the bargain rack, I had already been thrown in the trash. Thank you Natalie and fearless for helping me see that and doing it in a loving way! I don’t wanna go with what I know or selling myself short and with less than value. Maybe one day I will know what real love, care, trust and respect really looks and feels like. Instead of trying to convince others who are not worthy, I need to be, feel and act like I am worth all that is good. Funny, I spent so many years in hospitals and in therapy and here it all is at Baggage Reclaim.
i stop going on dates , when im in a date having a good time with a nice guys i feel ok this is all BS when the ugly side is going to show. don’t know how to start again . i gave in so much in my last relationship it took all the fun of dating out. know am still have a lot to work on but after this post i feel that the work that im doing is by not contacting my ex is worth because before i never saw myself with no one else but now i do .
plumies,
I feel the same. The work I have done with NC has changed my attitude. For ten years I couldn’t see myself with anyone but him; I never contemplated any other man. It is only now after over a year of distance from him that I too am able to see myself with someone else. I haven’t dated anyone else yet, though. i think I would feel the same as you if I dated – I would be waiting for the bullshit to start! The difference now though is that i would trust myself to get out and get out fast. You need to do the same. Let them do the bullshit if they want, the important thing is that you see it fast and act on it fast. You don’t need to trust them to do right by you, you need to be able to trust you to do right by you. Good luck!
NML: This is another very helpful post. During the last weeks, I developed kind of a crush (or should I say: tried to develop a crush???) on a new coworker. He isn’t very attractive, he dresses in a weird way, and I’m not sure whether he is single, but he might be, while more or less all other coworkers are married. He also seemed somewhat interested in me (flirty).
He’s somewhat nerdy, aloof and arrogant, but I told myself this must be “healthy” behavior. For some reasons, I still associate “nerdy and aloof” with “healthy”, probably because my parents were like that (even if those “nerdy” people were the most toxic ones I ever met!).
On the other hand, I’m smart, but somewhat bubbly, and my parents hated that. Therefore I still believe I have to stop being bubbly in order to become “healthy” and “mature”. I used to hope a cold/aloof/nerdy boyfriend could “help” me with that.
To make a long story short, this guy was starting to give me nightmares. Trying to keep a conversation going with him was very difficult (even if I’m usually a rather social and easy-going person). He seemed interested, but only “on his terms”. He talked to me only when he wanted to. The rest of the time he acted as if I wasn’t even there (for example when we went out to lunch together with other coworkers).
I felt more and more inadequate. Was I too demanding? Was I violating his boundaries? Was I not good enough for him? Too tiring? Too emotional?
Maybe just not healthy enough? Shouldn’t I be able to win more of his attention if I was healthy? Shouldn’t I try harder to overcome my negative feelings about him and find a way to his heart?
If I wasn’t able to get any closer to him, didn’t that mean all was lost for me? Didn’t that mean I was still unable to recognize a “healthy” person as such and act accordingly?
I didn’t even have a date with him, but my fantasies about him alone made me feel horrible. Last night, I had flashbacks about myself talking to my narcissistic mother, trying to make her love me or approve of me, but in vain, no matter what I said. “Flirting” with this colleague made me feel the same way. I don’t assume he is narcissistic, but this “crush” was absolutely devastating for me anyway.
Flush. I want to be free! And wanting this doesn’t mean I’m “unhealthy”.
EllyB
It doesn’t sound like a crush to me. I think he’s pushing your buttons (unintentionally). I had a “crush” on a guy at work just because his voice reminded me of my ex. COMPLETELY over it now. This guy probably just reminds you of someone (the momster?) and your brain wants to try again to make the unworkable work.
Personally, I’d stay away from dating coworkers unless you both find each other irresistible (but not in a crazy EU way).
I’m ALWAYS waiting for them to find me out, no matter what I accomplish. I know I’m doing it, too, and I hate it.
Reminds me of a song I wrote about the music biz a few years ago with this idea in it. The lines were:
It’s something like a jungle
Something like a job
You sell yourself to strangers
And you’d swear they’re getting robbed.
Nice.
I love the idea of it being a habit to expect success, good treatment, etc. If that’s true, then it’s possible to overcome this phenomenon, even though it feels like I was born with it and will die with it.
After swinging wildly back and forth over the last few weeks from regret and self-blame to feeling as though I’m getting stronger, I think I’m making progress. I’ve had a number of ‘aha’ moments from this site and some outside reading as well. Thanks to NML and everyone who comments for helping me to strengthen my resolve. I’ve realized that after being exposed to a negative, critical, dismissive parent (emotional/verbal abuse in childhood), one tends to doubt one’s own feelings. I think this explains in part why I would stick around when I knew I was being subjected to sub-par treatment….I know what’s being said/done is not right (and inconsiderate if not down right mean), but on some level I doubt my evaluation of the behaviour or make excuses for it. I suppose I let a lot of things go with the EU b/c I thought he did care about me–even in a ‘cold’ phase he still called me every day, etc. It’s frustrating to look back on what I’ve put up with when I felt like I was the only one in my home growing up who recognized and fought against this same poor behaviour.
The latest small thing that really resonated with me was a line about how these people shift the blame, calling us ‘too sensitive’ rather than owning up to wrong doing. It’s an obvious thing, but it’s also exactly what the EU said to me a little while ago after asking for an example of how he treats me badly. When he said it, it did make me wonder if this was just more mind f*ckery or if he actually believes his own bs….
Thanks for this post. I was having a conversation with a good friend last night on a very similar topic. About how, in my situation, I refuse to accept/internalize the positive reinforcement I get in other areas of my life and instead focus on the negative from ONE guy I knew for a “hot minute”. That I take his “rejection” of a relationship with me as his figuring out that I am not so great, rather boring and not all that. That he figured it out. When in reality he never took — or wanted to take – the time to really get to know me. Why do I believe him and not the friends and colleagues who have known me for years? It is struggle to take the focus off the negative and believe that I do deserve better. It’s been three months, but I still harp on it. But everyday I read these posts and it helps and I know I will learn from it.
This post kicked my butt…
Where my “not good enough” comes in is through my work…
I have quit GREAT jobs during times of stress because I thought that is when they will realize that I am a fake…
I have stuck out CRAPPY jobs, because, well, I was TRYING TO BE THE EXCEPTION…
Head hung low, begging the gods to forgive me… I now understand… I have the credentials, I am NOT stupid, yet my Family of Origin always made me feel like I was worthless, so how could I possibly disappoint them? ….
I’m not great at what I do, but I’m trying to accept how great my skills truly are…
I come from a conservative East Asian society and sometimes I feel like my past makes me not good enough to have a successful future relationship. I’m definitely pretty and smart and I am holding a great job, but due to the fact that I had an abortion before and was in an emotionally abusive long term relationship, I feel it sabotages my future at having a stable respectful relationship. I keep thinking, “What kind of man would respect a woman who’s killed her baby? Who would want someone who’s been through an abortion?” I even push away good men who want to treat me well because I feel like I’m cheating them somehow, that they would hate me if they knew what has happened to me before.
Wow, Natalie, you did it yet again. Your articles always read to me as if we’ve spoken and you are writing word-for-word what I would have shared. Today, what hit me very strongly are your words that “On paper you may believe that you have various characteristics, qualities, values, and even superficial qualities that would merit you being treated well, but when you get external validation of this, you reject it.” I’ve been there.
My ex-husband was what most people would call a “wonderful guy.” He was loving, romantic, caring, considerate, affectionate, did quite a bit of the house work, was a great dad, was loving to my elderly family, didn’t smoke, didn’t drink, didn’t do drugs, was financially responsible (though a lower-income earner), always wanting to do things to make me happy, helpful to his friends, the type of guy that everyone wants to call a friend. As far as I know, he was monogamous and didn’t cheat. However, he did have qualities that made me lose respect for him and to look down on him as a “wuss.” He would let everyone run all over him and dictate to him – his mother, his employer, our daughter, etc. He couldn’t fix anything in the house, except for putting in a new garbage disposal, if his life depended on it. If anything happened that he had to take care of, such as to write a letter, resolve a problem, and that sort of thing, he’d leave it up to me to handle. Whenever there was a problem, he’d hide his head in the sand, so to speak, and would ignore everything going on around him. I felt unprotected, as if I wasn’t with a man at all, but rather, as if he was an adolescent that I had to take care of. Consequently, I didn’t feel any passion or desire for him. I wasn’t in love with him, and I can’t remember if I ever was. I think I was at the very beginning, before I began to notice that he could not face problems and solve them. The first inkling that he either couldn’t or wouldn’t take care of problems became apparent a month or so after we got married. I had just turned 18. He was 23. Yet I had to face two major issues because he didn’t know how to resolve them. I took care of them and solved them. We got our money for my wedding set returned (they sold it as gold, but it wasn’t), and I had the insurance company cover the pregnancy and delivery (which they were refusing to do because I was a…
I wanted to add that when I had just gotten married and realized that my husband couldn’t face problems and solve them, I had to step in and get our money refunded for my wedding set (they sold it as gold, but it wasn’t), and I had the insurance company cover the pregnancy and delivery (which they were refusing to do because I was a couple of months pregnant on the wedding day and the insurance company was considering it a “pre-existing condition” to the date of the marriage).
I’m sharing the info about that huge negative (being “wussy”) that my ex-husband had because I have always believed it justified my lack of passion for him (I’m just not attracted to a man who acts like he needs saving – at least I don’t think I am) and my divorcing him. However, I’m wondering if the reality is that he treated me well and I couldn’t handle it OR perhaps it’s a combination of both. On the other hand, he treated me very lovingly and romantically from the first time we met and we started going out. And I always wanted to be with, holding hands, embracing, having my head on his shoulder and his arms around me. It felt very loving and sweet to me. At that point, though, I had NO idea that he was “wussy” and would let people walk all over him and he wouldn’t speak up for himself or speak up for me either.
What do you guys think about how I felt about him? Do you think it’s that I didn’t feel worthy of a “good guy” like him, who treated me lovingly, or that I was justified in feeling turned off due to his “wussyness” or a combination of both?
Another problem I have is that I always feel like a fraud, even though I am VERY knowledgeable in my fields and have an advanced degree. I don’t know what causes this. I think it has to do with my mother, her rejection, and feeling alone, lonely and unloved as a child.
I always feel that I am VERY warm, affectionate, sweet and caring with the guys I’ve dated after my marriage ended, and I even feel that each time I stayed dating them even though I saw red flags after we started dating. However, I didn’t know whether to stop dating the guys or not. I also didn’t want to be alone again and bored and lonely on weekends and in the middle of the week.
I analyzed the red flags I saw and the more I analyzed and thought and re-analyzed, the more confused I got. I just basically told myself that no one is perfect and that if the guys exhibited the behavior that concerned me, perhaps it was my fears shining through all over again and coloring what I was really seeing. Anyway, as it turned out, my gut feeling was right and the guys were cheaters, so one of my worst fears in a relationship was realized (the other is that the guy might be a pedophile).
My mother’s father was a major cheater and put my grandmother through hell, although I never heard or saw anything, at least not that I can remember, until I was told about it when I was a teen. My father was a womanizer as well, as told to me by my mother and others who knew him, but I never lived with him and never saw anything, since I was only 5 years old when my mother divorced him. My father never wanted to be in my life. All he would do would be to write a letter if I wrote him (which was rare, since I felt that he was the adult and should be reaching out to me), but I think that when he wrote me back it was because my maternal grandparents and my father’s mother asked him to so that I wouldn’t feel more rejected and sad. I think all of this has affected me in a very detrimental and hurtful way.
Natalie said something that is 100% true with me. She said that “you…forecast doom and gloom, or quietly wait for the other shoe to drop, and in the worst cases, sabotage it so that you end up creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you meet someone new, you’ll question whether it’s ‘you’ they really think they’re getting or look for faults in them.”
I absolutely typically expect bad things to happen, although I’m not sure if when they do it’s because I’m a realist and I am a good judge of human nature, especially males, so what happened was nothing more than what was going to happen anyway and I just foresaw it, or whether I am looking faults in them so that I can leave and not risk being dumped or being made a fool of.
What I can definitely say is that I have MAJOR difficulty relating to guys within the context of a man/woman relationship. Except for my ex-husband, I can’t seem to find one who is NOT a cheater. I know that there has to be SOME GOOD, MORAL AND LOVING GUYS out there in the world. So why can’t I find JUST ONE?!
Ann
I think you may slightly be missing the point.
You are attracted to men who fit your cheater profile (My cheater profile is – cool, charming, good looking, flirty, sexually confident, somewhat boundary-busting. This still rings my bell but at least I know to turn firmly away from it. Someone else’s might be – emotionally damaged, addicted, someone else’s might be – he’s married). You’re not turning good men into bad man with your doubts. You’re picking bad men from the get go. For as long as you think that men are cheaters, you won’t meet a good one because your thinking is warped.
Take some time out. If you keep picking wrongs uns it only makes you feel worse about yourself, so you pick terrible men and it spirals downwards. Take a breather, there’s no rush.
It’s only when you’re able to fill your own weekends and evenings by yourself that someone can come along and fill the gap of a genuine loving relationship. A relationship isn’t for passing time, entertainment, boredom prevention or to make you feel good about yourself. When you know what it’s for, then you’re ready.
As an aside, my pastor at church was giving a talk on male-female relationships. I thought it might be anti-feminist but his main message was “Men are not facing up to their responsibilities.” I’m sure that rings a bell with you. There are so many good, decent, hardworking, kind, responsible, protective men out there. And if you had told me that a year ago I wouldn’t have believed you.