Let’s imagine that you’ve been frustrated for a few months about your diet and after giving yourself a hard time and lamenting that you don’t feel good, you finally make the decision to go on a diet. You decide you’re going to lose ten pounds, that you’ll go to the gym three times a week, and cut down on certain foods. After the initial decision high, within a few days or weeks, you begin complaining that ‘this’ is really, really hard. Much of your time becomes consumed by staring at the ‘forbidden’ food and trying to restrain yourself from eating it.
You don’t like what you’re feeling now because it feels like you’re denying yourself and that’s starting to feel worse than when you were unhappy with your weight.
In your daydreams, you imagine what would happen if someone came to you and offered you, for example, a tub of Green & Blacks white chocolate and raspberry swirl ice-cream. “I’m not sure I’ll be able to resist it!” and you imagine how it will taste and how you’ll feel while you’re eating it. Instead of renewing your efforts and ensuring that you have mini milestones where you can pat yourself on the back and even reward yourself, you’re consumed with feeling bad about the decision you’ve made and fantasising.
In fact, you’re so preoccupied with busting your proverbial nuts over acting in your best interests that you’ve forgotten the many months you’ve been utterly miserable.
It’s not long of course before you have an off day at work or you’re just frickin worn out with having to fight the temptation, and your resolve finally crumbles. Once the ‘high’ has passed, you feel bad again, only this time it’s about ‘letting yourself down’. In the end, you might just think “Eff it!” and abandon the diet all together. Each time reality nags, you bury the thought and eat some more, although you don’t feel any better about your weight either. And lather, rinse, repeat.
This may sound vaguely familiar to you. It may well be because you’ve experienced this with an actual diet, but actually, this is what many people go through when they make a decision, such as ending a relationship that wasn’t working for them, or they even cut contact.
Just like staring at a bar of chocolate and hoping that the impulse will strike you to resist it is futile, so is staring at your phone wondering if they’ll call, why they haven’t called, are they having the time of their life while you’re sitting there trying to have the willpower not to call, and whether you should call your service provider to see if there’s been a ‘fault’.
If I kept staring at someone’s Facebook page and tracking their movements, I’d backtrack on my decision too – talk about torment!
Jumping out of your skin each time a text comes through, or refreshing your email and checking your junk folder is equally futile. Going through the motions of life saying that you’ve ‘made’ a decision or that you’re No Contact (NC), and then running the I’m Going To Think About ‘Them’ Although I’ll Pretend I’m Not application in the background is like running on the spot. You may also have the I Wonder Why I’m Not Good Enough application, along with the I Wonder If I Made The Right Decision application running.
Of course, the more of these memory and mind hogging ‘applications’ you have open, or the longer you have them open for, or in fact, the more you load on them causing them to exceed capacity, is the more life and energy hogging they are. If you go back on your decision, you won’t be happy to return to what made you unhappy.
Some of us don’t like to deny ourselves anything, unless it’s reality which is a whole other post. Particularly if we have negative associations with being ‘denied’ something that stems from childhood, it can make doing something that you know is good for you feel bad, in turn making it very difficult when you’re not committed and firm with yourself, to not be reactive, short-term, and impulse driven.
Really, you don’t want to be rebelling against yourself.
We do have to opt out of certain things and behaviours sometimes, just like we also have to exhibit some self-control and look at the medium to long-term picture. Turning down things that do let us feel good in the moment but give us a longer hangover, is us acting in our own best interests.
Having limits is boundaries – we’ll all need ’em!
I’m off the ciggies nearly eleven years – all the previous times I gave up, I was half-hearted, not doing even half the action required to make staying off them real, and I’d mentally be lighting up as soon as I smelt one.
If you’re thinking sheer willpower alone is going to get you there, I wouldn’t count on it. Some of us have been trying to willpower our way through relationships and that hasn’t panned out!
When I had to do NC with the guy with a girlfriend when we were working in the same office, I stopped mooning at him all day (that’s looking at him all doe-eyed not flashing my bum), made myself super busy, filled up my mind, poured out my thoughts in words instead of trying to convince him by talking the crap out of myself, and took it a day at a time and then a week at a time. In fact, the first few days it was like an hour at a time.
There’s no point in starting NC and then saying “I don’t know how I’ll make it through the week!”, because you won’t make it through a few days never mind the week with that kind of talk.
How about getting through one frickin day? And then the next?
Print out a calendar and fill it up for two whole weeks at the start of NC or after you’ve made a decision. Think about what you’ll do if you get the urge and what you’ll replace the impulse with – quite a few readers hit the treadmill, go for a walk, or call/see a friend or family member.
Stop staring at the problem after you’ve made the decision.
Stop staring at your ex whether it’s literally or figuratively, and put the focus on you.
Have a plan. Make a list of all of the reasons why you made the decision and any time your resolve weakens, consult the list – so many people have used the NC checklist from the NC mail to validate their concerns. Having evidence gives strength to what you’ve already done – made a decision.
Don’t make your whole plan about avoiding contact or avoiding thinking because there’s a lot of energy that goes into avoiding something. Make a plan for how to take care of yourself which of course will only help to support your course of action and decision.
Good decisions don’t always feel good initially. It’s not like the universe claps you on the back and throws you a golden ticket for doing what you needed to do anyway.
Stop expecting that if it’s the ‘right’ decision it’ll feel good. Some of you have been high on the relationship crack and felt good off a bad decision that later felt bad.
Some of the best decisions in life hurt like crazy and particularly off the back of something that actually had you trading yourself down, it’s actually a sign that you need to stick with it – you’re getting out of your comfort zone. I thought I’d die when I cut off my ex and now I realise what a drama queen I was! The right decision doesn’t always feel good but it doesn’t stop it from being right.
I have been reading this blog for I don’t know hoy many months and always came upon comments of readers saying: “Wow, this resonates with me RIGHT NOW!” Well, today is the day when this resonates with ME.
After months of a pseudo-relationship with a guy that couldn’t commit to being with me or being without me, who sent mixed signals and confused the hell out of me, I finally had the epiphany when he went all cold on me and I caught him starting a heavy flirt-fest with another woman on Facebook (behind my back, of course). I couldn’t catch him on the phone (we’re long distance) so I wrote an e-mail venting. He made me lose my temper, badly. So I told him what I thought of him in a couple of sentences and went NC (this was 10 days ago). He never answered and I never expected him to. Nor do I expect him to say anything ever.
The decision came rather violently, granted, but I don’t regret going NC. It is hurting very, and I mean VERY, much, though. But that is not what is bothering me the most about my decision. It is the violence of it. The fact that he sent me on such an explosion of temper (that I couldn’t let off to his face at the moment I discovered he was starting something with another woman), that I ended up telling him he was a monumental a**hole by email. I feel that I was rude (although HE was the one doing the mindf*uckery, the non-commitment, the incipient cheating, etc) and that is giving me such a hard time… Is that normal? Am I insane? How come I feel like the rude one?
Of course, I don’t intend to break NC to apologize. That would start another episode of useless contact that would serve no-one’s interests and only caress his ego. But why do I feel that I am at fault here?
Anyways, I broke NC once before, got burnt, learned my lesson. I am not breaking it this time. Thank you Nat for another great post!!!
riverlass
on 05/12/2011 at 11:38 pm
You have been sucked into the vortex of codependency ie., need to feel that you are the victim and your reaction is the withdrawal from the codependency addiction (people who use relationships with others as their sole source of value and identity). I have been very codependent myself, I am a rescuer and enabler and you apologising to your ex is enabling behaviour. It’s like telling the alcoholic that you wont tolerate his drinking then when he comes crawling back crying you forgive and rescue which completely contradicts your boundaries. Your telling him by apologising to him that he can continue to emotionally harm you as you dont value yourself. Please dont respond to him. Read “codependent no more” by Melody Beattie. Good luck x
yoghurt
on 06/12/2011 at 1:42 am
It isn’t good to lose your temper with someone, be rude or react violently but those things are a result of ANGER, and you have a right to be angry, it’s a good thing. It’s a healthy reaction to a situation where someone is treating you badly and crossing your boundaries, and it’s there to protect you.
(It took me a long time to get this – I used to be really upset with myself when I got angry and wonder what was wrong with ME)
Obviously, there are healthy and unhealthy ways of expressing your anger, but if you couldn’t express yourself any other way then the situation wasn’t all that healthy anyway… I mean in an ideal world you’d have been able to sit down and discuss it like adults but the fact is that your situation (and him) didn’t allow for that option.
Besides which, if you put it in proportion, you’ve sent him a nasty email. You haven’t dug his eyeballs out with a spoon or killed his cat or crashed your car into his car at speed. You’ve sent him a manky email that *might* make him feel slightly less-than-good if he reads it. I think he’ll survive.
I understand the ‘losing-the-moral-highground’ concern, but a) his moral highground isn’t a highground at all, it’s a boggy marsh some ten feet or so below sea-level, so you haven’t really and b) all it means is that you’re not 100% saint. That’s a good thing, cos being completely saintly is, ime, not an awful lot of fun.
Don’t dwell on the email or think that it puts you in the wrong… it doesn’t. Besides which, there IS an element of violent reaction to NC – it’s drastic because the situation calls for it. And, really, it’s just an excuse to keep thinking about him. Don’t. Flush. It’s not important in the big scheme of things because HE’S not worthy of YOU and you’re not going to see him again.
Beckceci
on 06/12/2011 at 1:48 pm
Thank you so much, Yoghurt! I needed to read these words. Sometimes when you deal with this type of dudes you end up losing your sense of direction, you know? I don’t want to call it a “moral compass”, but sort of.
We had never had an angry fight and had never called each other names before, that is why I feel “in the wrong” now. Even though I saw through his “act” and understood that he was passive-aggressively letting me know by his change of behavior that something was not right. It’s just that after months of putting up with his mixed signals, his not committing to ANYTHING, flip-flapping, future faking, etc I just suddenly felt betrayed, angry and treated like an idiot.
What I said to him in the email was (translated literally because I am a native Spanish speaker): “Not only are you a hypocrite, a coward, and ungrateful; you also turned out to be quite the son of a b*tch”. This last word is very nasty in Spanish and it is the one giving me a hard time now. But yes, he’s probably offended (why do I bother) or doesn’t care one way or the other (again: why do I bother).
In any case: thank you so much for your response, it helps A LOT. I will print it out and read it when I feel weak. Thanks again!!
Outergirl
on 06/12/2011 at 6:08 pm
Hi Beckceci
You are embarassed by your reaction. That’s normal, that’s ok. IMO however, I do not feel you can blame your AC for your behavior. You could have gone NC [hooray! you did] or even in a cold tone, state why you no longer need him in your life. Lastly, he does not sound like he is seeking anything further from you [hooray again!] and that includes an apology. It is our ego thinking they want to hear from us. At least that’s how my ego thought. Good luck.
Emma
on 06/12/2011 at 6:22 pm
Beckcici,
Allow me to assure you…no matter the debacle you would have regretted some element. I walked away from my AC very cleanly, very clinically almost…with him thinking that I thought the sun shined out of his arse. Sometimes I regret *not* sending him a scathing email outlining the list of his fundamental flaws as a human being , at times I’m still tempted now to contact him and let him know he’s not all that although I’m pretty sure he already knows on some level. At the end of the day it comes down to this: it is what you do now that counts, focus on you. Who gives a crap what he thinks because unfortunately these types of AC’s don’t give a shite about what we think. Spend time on you, pampering you, getting to know you.
yoghurt
on 08/12/2011 at 6:06 pm
Everything’s been said but I just wanted to say that I’m glad that it helped and good luck! 🙂
Also, I’ve never sent an angry or rude email to my EUM. I have, however, expended incredible amounts of time and energy on lengthy analytical breakdowns of our ‘situation’ in which I endeavoured to be cute, funny, straight-talking but friendly and expressing my needs without making any demands that would scare him off.
That’s FAR more embarrassing and awful, especially as I now know that he really couldn’t have given less of a toss about what I thought and probably didn’t even bother to read them…
Lia
on 06/12/2011 at 5:39 pm
Everything Yoghurt wrote is absolutely right. A few years back I snapped on someone and showed an entirely different side to my personality. And in the moment I felt totally satisfied, but shortly there after I immediately apologized. And do you know what changed? NOTHING. He still treated me the same way and I was still the same girl who wasn’t okay with that. The only thing the apology did was maintain a screwy status quo that I wasn’t truly satisfied with, until I finally got enough sense to step.
I actually see it as a good thing that you feel bad about what you did, to a degree. If you’re a decent human being, you are going to feel at least a little bad for possibly hurting someone’s feelings, even if that someone has a blatant disregard for yours and probably had it coming. Don’t feel bad for what you said, but try to figure out a healthier way to express your thoughts for the next time you’re having an issue with someone. On the other hand, while it probably wasn’t the best approach, I believe that you had to reach a certain level of pain in order to use it. They say that anger is usually a secondary emotion, covering up another one that’s really driving us in the moment. It serves as a protective mechanism once a boundary has undoubtedly been crossed. You have a right to whatever feelings you have, no matter how gritty they may be. Just make sure you’re staying in tuned to what’s really going on beneath the surface and you’ll be a lot less likely to act out of character. I wouldn’t apologize, at least not right now, because if you do it wouldn’t be genuine. Give it time and you probably won’t give it a second thought.
Beckceci
on 06/12/2011 at 8:05 pm
Outergirl,
I don’t know if I am trying to apportion blame. In any case, I believe we are both to blame. Him for treating me like an idiot and making me lose my temper, and me for having enabled his behavior for too long.
As for his seeking nothing further from me: that is true NOW. He sought all manner of things before, though, especially after I went NC on him twice (after explaining why I didn’t need him in my life very calmly… which he conveniently ignored after a while to mess me up again). I have no idea if he expects an apology or anything at all from me now. I have absolutely no idea what goes on in his head, I could never figure him out, I realize. I suppose this time he thinks I am crazy and will not bother again. In that case, as Nat said, he will be doing me a favor.
In any case, thanks for the feedback and good luck to you too, dear! 🙂
“Besides which, if you put it in proportion, you’ve sent him a nasty email. You haven’t dug his eyeballs out with a spoon or killed his cat or crashed your car into his car at speed. You’ve sent him a manky email that *might* make him feel slightly less-than-good if he reads it. I think he’ll survive.” Hilarious Yoghurt and oh so right! And yes, the anger is valid.
anoosh
on 06/12/2011 at 11:55 am
riverlass, I hope you don’t mind, but I respectfully disagree. I think it’s wrong to label people or their behavior as codependent or addiction without having an actual mental healthcare professional making an assessment. even then, I seriously question the validity of the literature out there on love and romance addiction, after reading almost all of it and participating in a group for 2 months. the bottom line in the handing of it has a basis in 12-step ideology, which works well for many kinds of addiction — but not all, and there is a huge amount of relapse. it counts on people going to a “higher power” to surrender for healing, and accepting that one has a “disease”, and one will always be “in recovery”. this totally takes away the person’s own power of mind and reason to think clearly and make the necessary changes within themselves to create healthy boundaries and relationship patterns. it also has no way of dealing with other serious disorders or unresolved grief reactions. the main group out there calls relationship avoidant behavior “Emotional Anorexia” — no psychologists, doctors, studies, clinical trials, etc, just a bunch of laypeople, many of whom need serious therapy making up out of thin air a self-diagnosis for hurting people to latch on to. there are some interesting concepts in the book you mentioned. IMHO, Baggage Reclaim + counselling/treatment if necessary = Best option out there for guiding you through NC, getting over an EU/AC, moving past heartbreak, creating healthy relationships
Lynda from L
on 06/12/2011 at 9:09 pm
Yeah, afraid I disagree too Riverlass. Articulate as many of our posts maybe..it is a huge leap to assess such a complex condition as co-dependency online.. It needs astute referral and much ground work on the part of the individual and couple who feel this is part of their interaction dynamic.
You are correct in your definition of co-dependency, it’s useful to have that out there…for all of us. However I think ‘labelling’ isn’t helpful, particularly in a black and white manner, whilst the process and fact are still emerging.
One of the great things about BR is that Nat doesn’t claim to be a therapist, or therapeutically diagnose other’s issues..this is a site of self awareness and evolution, it’s a site where an individual has time to make decisions about their relationships choices and their part in the success and failure of this..
We often know that we want or are going to eat the white chocolate and raspberry swirl ice cream but we know that if we do we can come on here and know why we did it or avoid it in future. We hope to change.
I say this as a recovering Florence and Arch Renovator.. I always check myself now when I hear myself telling someone that they’have’ to do something..Florence’s love diagnosing other’s problems and let’s face it, we have enough of our own.
Artemisia
on 06/12/2011 at 9:27 pm
Anoosh,
You are right.
Once upon a time you were shy and now you suffer from social-anxiety disorder, a doormat now someone with low self-esteem, selfish now an avoidant, then a weak willed put-upon wife married to a drunk, now you are a co-dependent married to a alcohol-addict. Labels changed, I think the new descriptions try to remove the shame based labels attached to the illness but have added a new problem, you are diseased with no chance to escape your new label. You never learn from your mistakes. But many of these new labels make us thing differently about ourselves and our actions, not a bad thing, just still live by Socrates dictum “The unexamined life is not worth living.”
I am no fan of the 12 steps, because of the higher power mantra – too based on the evangelical I have sinned and I must make penitence for the rest of my life and because you swap one addiction for another. Plus spilling my guts to complete strangers with no psy degree scares me more than the next love stunt between the TOWIE King Twonk and his orange on/off girlfriend. Wait, hold on I spill my guts here lol
I have had that discussion with someone who has been going for 12 years, “ aren’t you normal now, instead of a recovering alcoholic” I asked? Why should you defined yourself by your weakness or your past failures? Even if you don’t agree with the self-help books – I don’t agree with many, I want to burn Dr Phil mustache, I decide what I can take and what I can leave. I had many years of therapy for a problem and I have found that after years of peeling bullshit from my persona ,I am allergic to dogma. The book Women who love too much made me look at things differently, and reading Alice Miller and Karen Horney changed my life and helped my therapy.
What would you call a woman like my mother’s friend, who sticks with a man who had many affairs, put her down, was a control freak for 25 years and when he leaves her out of the blue begs him to come home because she is nothing without him?
Outergirl
on 07/12/2011 at 2:42 pm
Hi Beckceci,
I totally relate to you. One of the many, MANY reasons I had to go NC was his actions were coming really close to making me react or want to react, in a very undignified, out of control manner. Oh our AC’s have plenty to be blamed for, I am just saying, and you certainly seem to be in agreement; that we are ulitmately responsible for our choices. You definitely made the right one. As for him wanting things from you..see? now that you don’t give him everything he wants [the All You Can Eat Buffet], he’s lost interest. Mine did that too, a few halfhearted attempts, to really, just get back on the buffet line. Good riddance to bad rubbish. You are being really strong!
yoshizzle
on 06/12/2011 at 5:09 am
gahh! do NOT break NC to apologize. TRUST ME. It will feel very gratifying a few months from now to know you cut it off after only ONE email. Plus, he treated you like a bag of Sh*t. I think one nasty email venting what an a-hole he is , was warranted or at the very least understandable. Keep up the NC!! Even if you think about him, resist, resist another email or ANY contact whatsoever. It may feel crap now, like Nat said, it may be near-impossible to fight the urge to apologize (just feeding your ego, making you look like the bigger person, to YOU, that is…) or another email “explaining” what you were feeling, why you said what you said, why you are justified for saying it, or not, or WHATEVER…just. don’t. DO IT.
It took me like, ten messages and half a phone conversation plus a year late a couple more back and forths’ before i *really* cut contact. and i mean, for real. And it was only after the second email that i started wishing i’d broke it off and stayed totally NC. In the end, you’re going to feel sooooooo much more satisfied with this…stay strong!!!
Sue
on 06/12/2011 at 6:26 am
I agree there is no reason to apologize for your feelings however I learned the hard way to never be rude via email and, really, there is no excuse for it. What I do now is write an initial note and email it to myself so at least I press SEND and get it out of my system. Then after I’m calmer I write whatever I intended to say – to whoever I intended to say it – politely, and I have no emotional hangover as a result of my actions or words.
Beckceci
on 06/12/2011 at 2:06 pm
Sue,
I feel like you about being rude via email or any digital platform, that’s why I was ever careful of how I spoke to him, via email, messenger, etc. Sometimes an email can be, like a letter, a nice way of expressing what you feel without the drama of face-to-face or phone conversations. I am not someone who loses her temper frequently, but sometimes you need to communicate something that you have trouble voicing, so a letter or an email seems like an option (you state what you think and then you can have the conversation about it, of course).
However, the problem here was: 1) I discovered the reason he was not talking to me or taking my calls was that he was having something with another woman behind my back; 2) This made me feel extremely angry and betrayed; 3) After so much communicating everything politely on my part and it not producing anything near compassion or empathy from him, I just lost it. I just plain and simple LOST IT.
I feel awful being rude, I am not rude to anyone (I can express my anger, etc, without being rude), but he got to me. He hurt me deeply. I felt like a wounded animal. Zero rationality at the time.
I think what bothers me the most is the fact that he drove me to do something I despise doing and now I feel doubly hurt. I know I should have done nothing, waited it out, had the last conversation to end things politely… but I felt wounded, and after months reasoning and being polite and communicative and supportive, etc, I realized it did NOTHING to him to be so polite and collected. So I lashed out. I am not proud of it, it is giving me a hard time, but maybe if I understand the reasons for my lashing out I may forgive myself and move on.
Beckceci, I’ve been following your comment and the responses and I wanted to say this to you and I hope it helps:
You’re not perfect and you’re not a saint but you sound like you expect yourself to be by almost expecting that you could experience something devastating and handle it perfectly coiffed.
No it’s not nice to be rude on email but it’s not nice to do a lot of things. That’s not to say you’re doing tit for tat, but if your secret fear is that you blowing your gasket via email now puts you on some sort of ‘level’ with your ex, you’d want to think again.
This is where I have to say firmly but with love, to get a grip.
It’s not like you did an Angela Basset in Waiting To Exhale and burnt all of his shit. Yeah you told him about himself, yeah you did it by email, yeah I’m sure you would do different next time round but actually, you’ve done yourself a favour. You’re now done ’cause you sure as hell won’t be going back.
As others pointed out, you have a *right* to be angry. Don’t censor it or act like you can only get angry in a dignified manner. Your hurt is also legitimate.
Forgive yourself – trust me when I say that your ‘eruption’ is not just this one incident but a number of things. Listen to you in the future and just say no to assclowns. Let this go and stop reliving the drama – it keeps you tied to him.
Oh and do *not* apologise. You can be sorry and show regret for what happened in your future dealings. Sorry doesn’t mean having to seek out the person especially when in the dynamic you were in with him, he’d use it to wipe his slate completely clean. Write an unsent letter it bothers you that much but do not say another word unless you’re a drama queen.
Beckceci
on 06/12/2011 at 6:25 pm
“(…) if your secret fear is that you blowing your gasket via email now puts you on some sort of ‘level’ with your ex, you’d want to think again.”
Nat, I don’t know how you do it. That is EXACTLY IT. I had trouble putting my feeling into words, why I felt so uncomfortable with my outburst, but there you said it.
And yes, I need to get a grip because, reading your comment and that of other ladies here (as well as hearing the opinion of my dear friends), I know I am missing the point.
There will be no future dealings with him because I will not contact him and he’s unlikely to want to contact me after what I wrote to him. I admit my being nasty with him was in part a way to make sure there would be no wish on his part to recontact me. Let’s see if it works. I think it will.
Thanks again for your response and another big THANK YOU to all the commenters for your words. You are helping me BIG TIME.
tired_of_assanova
on 06/12/2011 at 9:31 pm
Ironic how we hold ourselves up to saintly levels of behaviour, while the AC is off acting like a clown.
I’m totally conflict avoidant and nice, caring etc. But on the other hand, why care so much about other people when we don’t care as much about ourselves?
If they’re a clown, totally blast their a*ss! (That is unless they’re violent/abuser). We are too kind to other people, if a criminal/robber went into our house we would probably sit them down, make them tea and try politely explain why robbing us is not good.
Hi Sue, that’s a good idea about writing in anger but not sending and then trying more calmly.
I do however think it’s unrealistic to never be rude. Email is just a mode of communication – I don’t think any of us should strive to be rude but conversely I think there’s a fine line between anger and rudeness, in terms of how it comes out. It would be rude of me to call you an “asshole” (even if you are although you’re not I must add), but if I said to you, even if it was with annoyance that I was annoyed because you’d done A,B, and C and yada yada yada” that’s anger being expressed. Obviously this crosses back to rudeness if it’s transcended anger into rage – being disrespectfully honest.
That said, going back to your original suggestion, it’s good to think before you speak or write, especially with the latter because once you press send, it’s out there. That’s not to say you’re any less accountable with verbal but I do think that when we don’t leave things in draft, we actually get far more carried away because it feels safer to vent in words than it does face to face.
It’s part of the reason why I keep emphasising why we should also go easy on the lazy communication – if you had to step up and say half of this stuff face to face, or make full on contact, you’d see a very different state of affairs. I also don’t believe in having conflict via email – in or out of a relationship. It’s a bullet dodger for sure.
Artemisia
on 06/12/2011 at 11:39 am
Beckceci,
There is nothing wrong with being angry when wronged. It’s healthy. Someone took advantage of your kind nature and thought of you as a fool. Many hold down their anger, turn it against themselves, get ill because they feel they have no right to it (up-bringing) .Women are conditioned not to lose it, it’s not “feminine” and men don’t like angry women – nothing remind them of being a small child at the hands of their powerful mother than a pissed-off angry girlfriend. I am not talking of the anger of the bully, the childish with a tantrum or the overbearing who only want their way.
Women put up with a lot more than men would, and consequently take more time to lose it and when they do they drag everything but the kitchen sink in the venting, blowing everything out of proportion because they held their anger for so long. Or go on bitching – cat-fights binges as a way to vent.
He messed you up, you lost it, called him names, he deserve it.
Now show how good your self esteem by deleting the twat from your lives – sentimental, fantasy and digital. And pick up clues early on and nip the disrespect early on. You are worth more than his way of treating you.
Read If Love Could Think: Using Your Mind to Guide Your Heart by Alon Gratch or any of Harville Hendrix.
I just wanna clap like crazy Artemisia! A to the fricking men!
anoosh
on 06/12/2011 at 11:46 am
Beckceci– I too had a very sudden ending after getting extremely upset on the phone w/my last exLDR/EUM, and basically blamed myself & my temper for a year, b/c it was our first major conflict. then I found Baggage Reclaim and finally figured out I was reacting to a gigantic Future Faker, who took me on a 1year magic carpet ride through his separation from 15 year marriage. when the time came for things to move forward and for that Future to become Now, he took the opportunity of this heated fight to overnight do a 180, a couple vanishing acts, even a recent return for BS “friendship” after 6 months of NC. after it 1st happened, I thought we would work things out, b/c he was as deeply invested & In Love as I was, and couples *do* argue, sometimes very heatedly. Bzzzt — WRONG! all of a sudden, he “felt differently”. I began apologizing up the yinyang, and taking the blame. and he *LET* me do that. it started a year & half long journey of heartbreak, which I am still recovering from. I tortured myself for a year — if only I’d gotten off the phone and said “let’s talk about it later”, or if I’d handled it this way or that, we’d still be blissfully happy and probably married by now… there’s a part of me that *still* believes that. as if I *caused* him to be a compassionless, cruel, cowardly Jekyll & Hyde. NONSENSE! he wanted a fantasy to distract himself from his shiite marriage/separation. he had no intention of bringing me into his world, really. he is textbook EUM, and I an FBG. therapy, journaling, self-care, self-help books, friends, family, taking art courses, and finally self-help group for Love addiction — nothing really helped, until Baggage Reclaim gave me crystal clear clarity. I have a long way to go, but it took 4+ decades to get here, so it might take a bit more time. It’s normal to get infuriated when a bonafide Assclown jerks you around, and dodges responsibility for playing with your heart and emotions. You’re allowed to get angry and express it in a healthy way. I can honestly say, I may yet make more mistakes in romance, but I will *never* second guess my EUM-radar ever again, or feel bad about standing up for myself.
{btw, I have an issue with calling this codependency or addiction, I think that’s completely WRONG, inaccurate and dangerous. will make a note on the above comment about it} **this was supposed to be in…
CHICA8
on 06/12/2011 at 5:52 pm
Anoosh- You are describing my experience with the EUM quite well. I also had the guy who got very upset w/me and called me names when I showed even a hint of anger. Nevermind that I was reacting in a very appropriate way to HIS behavior whenever I got angry. Anger is good when dealt with in a healthy way. The guys who want to squash any hint of anger = nightmares. I also had to apologize repeatedly for things that “made” him feel differently. Direct quote- “I don’t feel close to you anymore and it’s because YOU did x,y and z in the relationship.” Awful. It’s all bs and shows that these guys cannot take responsibility for anything. I see that now. But WOW is that hurtful when you are in it. I think we have to be wary of anyone who tells us WE are causing THEIR feelings to change/dissipate/whatever. Our natural inclination as FBGs is to try to twist and turn and suppress normal emotions so that we don’t “make” them lose their feelings for us. Maddening, and ps- Does.Not.Work. They will always find some other fault in us or some reason to say we aren’t *quite* right for them. Good riddance to bad trash! I also love that you called it a “magic carpet ride.” So perfect. I’m stealing this!
Hi Anoosh, I think the regret that is felt about blowing up can distort the reality of the situation somewhat. You end up forgetting what you were blowing up about or the fact that it wouldn’t have worked anyway – a man that’s actually going to divorce does it whether he has an emotional airbag to land on or not. The argument was convenient for him – it provided an exit and a foil that would prevent him from looking too closely at his own actions. He could even convince himself that if you hadn’t said what you had, you’d be together and he’d have divorced. That’s quite frankly a load of shit. Conflict is a normal and necessary part of life. How can the onus be put on you to never put a foot wrong or express any discontent when this twerp is not even fricking perfect himself?!
metsgirl
on 05/12/2011 at 11:04 pm
I can’t speak for anyone else but you hit the nail on the head with “Stop staring at the problem after you’ve made the decision”.
To try and hash through the details after deciding NC is sheer lunacy…(at least for me). I catch myself thinking “I’m absolutely NC EXCEPT if he does ‘this and that’…but that’s only if I realllllyy think he means it this time”. LOL
Once NC is in place there really is nothing to debate. It’s done and over.
Thanks NML for being my sanity some days =). You’re one gifted Mama!
Thanks Metagirl. You’re absolutely right – The point of NC is there *are* no scenarios. To have to cut someone off to this length, they have clocked up more than enough carry on that makes returning to what was an unhealthy relationship a no-go area. Stay strong!
Transitioning
on 05/12/2011 at 11:08 pm
I wish I had seen this post before I contacted my ex after 3 weeks of NC. Ladies breaking NC is fatal and I can’t tell how much damage that did to me. My ex sounded happy, puffed up and left me feeling not so good enough, and like I could never win him back (duh)
So I finally decided to do NC in its real essence. Stop peeping, block him from everywhere, stop signing into my friends face book account to see his profile and read his comments, change my number.
I was the other woman,and I didn’t know. I called his girlfriend and he dumped me for doing so. Well, im engaging violently in NC-He definitely is NO SUPERHERO!
Transitioning, stick with NC. There’s nothing to be gained from reaching out to him as you’ve already discovered. Well done on changing your number etc – this man is a fraud. Keep moving forward and don’t look back.
riverlass
on 05/12/2011 at 11:24 pm
An online romance developed with an old friend of mine and I decided to fly 5000 miles across continents for xmas to see if their is any potential for a relationship. We were initially both in relationships. I ended mine and he did not end his. My flight is in a week and he wrote to me 3 days ago and tried to arrange our rendezvous so he could see his g/f over the weekend without her knowledge of me being there and then him take the day off from work on the Monday to see me. The arrogant bugger even said “I am all yours all day”…..I was rolling on the floor laughing my *ss off cos guess what? I had already made the decision days earlier that if he chooses to continue this game when I get there he can take a hike….no thanks, not interested and I wrote back and said “bog off” I am not accepting his behaviour, one of us has integrity and it’s not him. I had given up on this guy weeks ago and had told him several times that I dont do threesomes and he had made the proverbial excuses that it was over between them but of course according to his facebook they were still in a relationship. Boundaries have to be practiced and we remained long distance friends. We only emailed so I figured no harm in that and I started to date good men who made me feel valued. However, now he wants to continue with the secrecy in person and I am not doing it. I have too much pride and I am too headstrong to behave in such a selfish and demeaning manner. And rather than feeling like I have lost someone or something, I feel like I did when I quit smoking over 2 years ago cold turkey. I feel like I got my life back including my healthy mind and slowly with the workouts my body is healing also. Same principles apply to this. I am focussed on my healthy lifestyle and if he chooses to be a coward, she is very welcome to him. So Nat sometimes making the right decision feels FRIGGING AWESOME!!! I danced all night long after I sent that email. My male cousin wrote to me and said “way to go sister”; cos decent men know the difference between right and wrong. And I told my ex-friend I am going to have a fabulous trip too without any drama and now without seeing him!!! Wonderful. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Good for you RIverlass. By truly embracing your decision, you get to focus on the benefits instead of seeing looking out for yourself as being a great inconvenience. Merry Christmas to you too!
Natasha
on 05/12/2011 at 11:26 pm
“Print out a calendar and fill it up for two whole weeks at the start of NC or after you’ve made a decision. Think about what you’ll do if you get the urge and what you’ll replace the impulse with – quite a few readers hit the treadmill, go for a walk, or call/see a friend or family member.”
This is so key to NC! My problem wasn’t reaching out to my ex, it was not responding when he made contact. For the first several months of NC, I could not NOT respond. I was still trying to get in the infamous, futile “last word” with someone that didn’t play fair and didn’t actually give a fig about how I felt! What I started doing, was when the voicemail/text came in, I’d take my dog for a walk. I’d say to myself, “Natasha, take this furry lump of love out for a walk and think rationally about what you hope to achieve by responding (File under “Sh*t, Jack”).” It worked! I also found golf and tennis really helpful. Both are social sports, so you’re focusing on the game and the company – not on any ex foolishness.
Another thing to pay attention to is when you’re hanging out with your friends, have something to talk about other than your ex. It’s normal to want to analyze with your Lady Think Tank – hell, we’ve all analyzed our friends’ exes right along with them! However, I found that I had so much more fun talking about something, ANYTHING other than that. Truth be told, I’m sure my friends had a lot more fun too. Loved this article Nat 🙂
Elle
on 06/12/2011 at 4:16 am
Totally agree, Natasha, on the group activities, and ones that are not conducive to the old pity party. I do dance, writing and acting classes/group-thingies (and I wish I could have a fur-baby!). It’s so nice (and essential) for the brain to have a break from this stuff. The mind needs quiet time and times devoted to playful, fun things to work properly.
Having said this, I just got those yucky chemicals in my body when I saw recent ex reply to a group email. Now, minutes later, I am calming down, but I still got that fire-up in the belly and brain. Ick. I can’t even pretend to myself that he wants to be back with me. But what helps is reminding myself that I don’t want to be with him either – it’s uncomfortable, not working out with someone, but it doesn’t have to be a tragedy. But, yeah, I suppose I do want an ego-stroke of some sort!
I can relate to Beckceci’s comment – I swear a lot of the pain is a function of how much control over the break-up you felt you had, and whether you felt like you were heard and shown respect and love; a tall order – emotions are raw, and often people are busy villainising and blaming – but it makes such a difference. I think my response to recent ex comes from me not quite yet letting go of some discomfort with how he did the old ‘things are fine’ so that he could manage the ending thing. What can one do about that except not focus on it, as Nat says? Speaking of, back to work!
Natasha
on 06/12/2011 at 5:11 pm
Elle, I think what you felt is totally normal. Egos are always involving themselves in break-ups! Your ex sounded like a maaaaajor cold fish, so it’s not surprising that he’s very “business as usual”, you know? Break-ups always bring up uncomfortable feelings and I think you’re handling it perfectly – i.e., you realize that you don’t want him back and that it’s okay for it to feel a little strange when his name pops up on a group email. I completely agree with Beckceci too. On a related note, I think this is (part of) why the Houdini Break-Ups are so painful, because not only is it disrespectful, but the person on the receiving end of it is certainly not being heard! As for your ex, of course you felt discomfort – I got a big time EU vibe from him. The only place cold fish is enjoyable is at the sushi bar! *Big Hugs*
Outergirl
on 06/12/2011 at 6:17 pm
Lady Think Tank!! I love it.
Elle
on 06/12/2011 at 10:26 pm
Haha! Love the sushi bar comment! You’re right – it was all so clinical and deflating. I am nearly there. I can see myself avoiding obsessions, worries and faulty conclusions of the AC bust-up (including I feel so bad losing him therefore he must have been a real and true love – overlooking that being with him felt worse – what Nat deals with in this post!). Have not been sent to any ditch of doom this time. But, you’re right, it’s like I am having the last shivers when I remember being treated so coldly for a good month or two. Just images of me smiling or hugging him and him acting like I was such an awful burden, and even a threat. It’s nearly passed. Helped by some big non-romance wins for me, and just deciding to make things easier and nicer in smaller ways. Thanks for the push along! You seem to be going terrifically. x
Natasha
on 07/12/2011 at 2:01 am
Ah, Elle, deflating is SUCH a perfect word for these relationships. I can remember going to visit my ex being full of such enthusiasm and then *pppffffffffffffftttttt*! I love the idea of doing little things to make life nicer – that was a huge help to me as well. That’s so awesome that you had some big wins, because those things really do help build the old confidence back up again 🙂 xoxo
Be gentle on yourself Elle – is it even a month yet? You’re bound to still be going through a myriad of emotions that will settle into something more steady. At the heart of it, you’ve very much validated the rightness of the relationship being over – that’s critical in this process. But you are only human not made of stone. Yeah it is uncomfortable our relationships not working out but letting them go leaves you free to try at something with a better prospect of working out. It’s also uncomfortable but it’s life. You can’t know whether it can or can’t work out by doing a bit of discovery or having a go at a relationship. Not all of his foibles were immediately obvious. When they did become obvious, you tried for a bit and then you accepted the topline information – it wasn’t working, he was unavailable, and you weren’t happy. Nuff said.
Love “Lady Think Tank” Natasha! I agree about the having another conversation topic. These people are not the centre of the universe. If they’re the *only* thing to talk about, you know you haven’t got enough going on in your life. I too have sat around playing Diagnosis Mr Unavailable/Assclown but talking about other things is a way of focusing your mind and allowing other thoughts and experiences to creep in.
Natasha
on 07/12/2011 at 1:54 am
“Diagnosis Mr Unavailable/Assclown” has me cracking up! My tendency to overanalyze was so severe that I HAD to have a plan of action, otherwise I would have wasted a lot of perfectly good social time yammering about an assclown. Whenever I’d want to bring my ex up in conversation, I’d mentally snap the rubber band and think of something else to say before I opened my mouth. It was also BEYOND helpful that I had BR to work through it with, because being able to share in the comments helped to get it out of my system and I was sharing with a Virtual Lady Think Tank that knew exactly what I was talking about. Not to mention *AHEM* a certain advice guru to whom I am forever grateful 🙂
Lia
on 05/12/2011 at 11:29 pm
“Stop expecting that if it’s the ‘right’ decision it’ll feel good. Some of you have been high on the relationship crack and felt good off a bad decision that later felt bad.”
I seriously think that the universe is trying to tell me something, cause this is literally the third time today that I’ve honed in on a message like this. Or maybe it’s just my conscience being hungry for it, I dunno. I have gone through this same mode of thinking in relation to a relationship before, and I thought that by removing myself from it that I had also removed myself from that school of thought as well. It’s just scary how I found out that it crossed into other areas of my life. For this past year, I’ve felt myself settling into a comfort zone that really isn’t all that comfortable, but it’s familiar. I’m 25 years old and I’ve lived in the same area for most of my life. I love my friends and family, but I just want the experience of setting up a life elsewhere, completely on my own. In the past I would decide that I wanted things to change, and I would feel that way for a few days but slip right back to where I was, finding every excuse in the book to stay. But this feeling hasn’t gone away for a while now, and I’ve realized that there really are pros and cons to whatever decision I make, but I would be much happier, in the long run with the change. I’ve always been fearful of change, I’ve been known to ruminate over any and all possible consequences. But looking back I’ve come to realize that the changes that I have managed to make in my life eventually do feel good in the long run.
This post could relate to any area in life where one has settled for something that is no good. Thanks for the reminder and motivation to do what’s best for myself.
“I’ve realized that there really are pros and cons to whatever decision I make, but I would be much happier, in the long run with the change.” Absolutely Lia. That’s what making a decision involves – change versus staying in your comfort zone. There’s only so long you can ruminate for. Take pen to paper, outline your idea and formulate a plan around it, do any research necessary and formulate a plan. I’m very fortunate that not only did I get to travel a bit in my early twenties, but I moved to London on my own on Jan 31st 2001 away from Dublin where it’s great but we’re all in one another’s business. I wanted to create a life on my own terms, even if it had my cockups in it! I thought I’d only be here for a few years but here I am nearly 11 years later. You only have one life. Don’t wake up in 5 or 10 years time and still be thinking the same way because you’ll regret not having evolved your outlook and at least being decisive.
Sam
on 05/12/2011 at 11:49 pm
Oh goodness the decision a few months ago to go NC on my ex was or even just to break up with him was one of the hardest ones I’ve ever made. There were a number of things that pushed me to do it…his blatant disrespect, disregard and dismissal of my feelings was one, the withdrawal of his affections and criticisms was another as was the growing deceit.
At first it was agonizing….waking up in the morning having temporarily forgotten in my sleep that he’s gone and the despair at having to remember it all over again, the wondering why the hell he hadn’t called me to even see if I was OK, praying that he would just so it would confirm to me that he cared about me just an ounce.
Funny thing is I felt guilty too because when I broke up (despite how hideously he treated me) he was going through a ‘tough’ time and felt I was abandoning him. However I was going through a tough time at the same time too and his empathy for me was pretty minuscule, perhaps I would argue non-existent. He didn’t really seem to have much of an interest in me, my feelings or life.
For me it seemed as though as soon as things stopped being shiny and new and he realized that he actually might be needed, expected or wanted, he checked out.
After I cut contact he made no attempts whatsoever to make contact with me and seen him flirting with a girl online within a couple of days. It hurt me but I blocked him in every means possible online, deleted his phone number.
Still to this day (few months later) he hasn’t contacted me nor I have him. It is hurtful but I’m just happy to know what kind of person he is and I know there is better. My friends and family have been the biggest sources of support. They have helped me in my moments of self doubt when I believe I did the wrong thing and was too harsh on him.
Then I just think of the bad times; the belittling, the criticisms, the unreliability, the bullshit… and it helps also to put things into perspective.
Natalie
on 06/12/2011 at 1:00 am
Wow Sam….i think we dated the SAME guy! 😉 Reading this just might have saved me today…and you can damn well bet i’m reading it tomorrow and the next day and the next! I just asked for NC 5 days ago, and I feel like hell. I feel sick, can’t eat, sleep to avoid the pain and as you state EXACTLY, feel scared when I have to wake up everyday and remember everything all over again. This guy lied over and over, cheated with different women, all while I supported him and moved in with him after he fell on hard financial times. Even when he wasn’t lying about other women, he was lying about something. In the beginning I fell head over heels, he paid attention to me, called all the time, sent me texts all throughout the day, that was the only way he was reliable. In 6 months I only ever met his brother. No friends, no other family, he never even introduced me to his ex wife. I felt like a shameful secret. Now I’m hurting more than I ever thought possible. He’s made no attempt to contact me, and i admit i tried to call him, but i can tell he’s rejecting my calls. Just a week ago he was coming on strong, after I caught him with yet another girl he met online. He told me he wanted me back after the first time, yet he made damn sure he had a back up plan if i actually left, which i did, but not totally right away. Two months of more agony with this guy, when I had already known I was unhappy. I’ve been regretting my NC decision since I made it despite all that! I don’t want to feel this way! Sam as you describe how your relationship played out, mine was SO similar. Once I looked to him as my partner, my other half, he seemed to want nothing to do with me. I went to him and told him what I was going through, and he brushed me off as it being all in my head. I can’t figure out what the hell he even really wanted me for if he wanted 10 other women on the side.That was of course the major reason I ended things, NC was probably more for me as I simply couldn’t resist him. I ended it also for his disrespect of me (his ex wife was over one night when i showed up, and she opened my mail…and he let her.) His lies, his BS, his hot and cold behavior towards me, the put downs, I never felt good enough for him. But when he threw me a crumb, you bet i ate that up, when he did make me feel good, i felt like a million bucks. But when he turned cold, I went into panic mode. I’m sad, and I wish everything would have been different. This site is honestly keeping me afloat. Thanks everyone for sharing, you have no idea what kind of support and hope this have given me. I have a long ways to go but I think I can make it.
Natalie, it’s time to flush this turd. Bullshit begets bullshit. If someone can keep slinking around with women and you’re still receptive, they work out that you’re in denial and take advantage. This man can’t keep his dick in his pants or his eyes focused on you. He’s also a user.
Complaining to him about how you feel and the problems you have with *his* behaviour, is like being sexually harassed by your manager and then complaining *to* them about their sexual harassment. How can you expect sympathy and empathy from the person who is literally effing you around?
There is no point in wishing that this situation would’ve been different. There’s nothing you can do to change him – the only thing you could do differently is have flushed his arse the first time you caught him out.
Natalie
on 08/12/2011 at 7:40 pm
Yes NML, thanks! Basically what I was doing was pushing FLUSH, then RUNNING for the plunger!! NO MORE!! I am working very hard on focusing on me. This is a pattern for me with EUMs. I am reading everything on this site, and coming to understand my unavailability as well, I have found comfort in the uncomfortable, then asking Why? Why isn’t this working out, why am I so unhappy. DUH! Stop being a drama queen and stop letting shady situations feed that! I’m also looking at my patterns that I need to break because I know and deserve to be happy, I must take accountability for that. I am a good person. 🙂 Time to stop letting those unqualified to decide for me what I want and allowing them to manage down my expectations as you say NML! I knew he was crossing FAR TOO MANY of my boundaries, but I kept betting on potential and didn’t trust myself or respect myself to LISTEN TO MYSELF!!! He’s not my problem anymore, thank god!
AngelFace
on 06/12/2011 at 3:42 am
Hi Sam,
Good decision. Because being the secret lover doesn’t move you up the ladder to girlfriend/wife. and in my case, amoungst all the other stupid & horrible stuff I went through, he was cheating on me for last 5 months with a new one he brought into *rotation*. This AC has back-ups for his back-up.
I’m not really sure why I went along with it for 14 months – the last several of which I was trying to strengthen myself to get out. Mainly, I was led-on, let-down, in shock, would recover at his future faking… repeat, lather, rinse. He worked out of town and I was addicted to his dreamy voice and brief little calls – when he was in town I was never the one he spent any of the holidays with… they were for the primary girlfriend – who I wasn’t sure even existed. He also spent an abnormal amount of time with a manfriend – over night visits… Hmm.? So Many secrets, lies, manipulations and deceptions. Pure Evil. This is the first time & the last of my debut as the “secret Lover”.
Lia
on 06/12/2011 at 7:17 am
“Still to this day (few months later) he hasn’t contacted me nor I have him. It is hurtful but I’m just happy to know what kind of person he is and I know there is better.”
Honey I have been where you are and I know how hurtful it is, but it gets easier with each day. I bet if you thought about it, you would see that, other than your feelings, there really wasn’t much of a loss there. Was he really adding that much to your life for you to miss his presence? Were the things that he did or said to/for you that significant for his absence to leave that big of a hole in your life? I bet he wasn’t, and I bet they didn’t. If anything, I bet you were of more of a benefit to him than the other way around. Sounds like you saw that he was able to disregard you while you were in the relationship, so don’t be so surprised by how he’s acting, or not acting, towards you now. You don’t want somebody like that chasing after you anyway, so just consider it a blessing that he’s preoccupied doing whatever it is that you don’t have to be concerned with anymore. Just take it one day at a time and remember that you left because what was offered wasn’t good enough for you and it hasn’t changed…
Sam
on 06/12/2011 at 10:38 am
@ Natalie, I am so glad my words have helped you and big, big hugs. xxxx I have been there where morning time is the worst..I don’t think I even listened to music at all those few weeks after-even now I will switch off romantic songs if I hear them on the radio but I find as time goes on I can tolerate them more. It does get better!!!! It does take time but stick to your decision. I know you didn’t want it to be this way, I felt like that too. Sometimes I just ached to even just have a chat with him, even as a friend..but I stuck to my guns because he clearly didn’t value me as much as I did him.
@AngelFace and Lia, thank you so much for your words.
The decision to go NC was the obvious choice for me after some of the things he did (but at the same time is was a very hard one to make if that makes sense)…it was funny I never regarded myself as someone who has a tremendous amount of respect for herself (I’ve made a lot of mistakes in my past that I really beat myself up over) but in the moment I chose to go NC it dawned on me that I did in fact have a lot more respect for myself than I ever thought I had. I’d have to really hate myself to continue engaging with him and I’m proud of how dignified I handled it. Seeing him flirt publicly with a girl online after only a few days was a stab to the heart but it confirmed my decision even more. I said nothing and stuck to NC.
He was the epitome of a Future Faker, I wasn’t a secret, he paraded me like a show pony around his people claiming I was ‘the One’. I’m not sure what’s worse: the humiliation of being the secret or the humiliation you feel when so many play witness to it crashing and burning.
I guess it hard to accept that the guy who once stared into your eyes telling you how much he loved you and would never dream of hurting you can be the same one who wont even look at you or act as even your mere existence is a burden to him.
I no longer keep an eagle eye on my phone waiting for him to call (and confirm he gives/gave a sh*t). I know he won’t call though and yes it is hurtful…but I don’t want him to, not now.
Natalie
on 06/12/2011 at 11:09 pm
Sam,
Once again you’ve hit the nail on the head with this: I guess it hard to accept that the guy who once stared into your eyes telling you how much he loved you and would never dream of hurting you can be the same one who wont even look at you or act as even your mere existence is a burden to him. This just happened to me today:
I feel relief (and some shame) in admitting I took his call last night. I was thrilled to see it was him. Sadly. He was calling to tell me he had just gotten out of jail. Wow. His ex wife and something with her new boyfriend, yada yada drama drama! He sounded so glad to be talking to me. I convinced myself he must not have been rejecting my calls, he was in Jail! Wow, how sad is that that after a week of feeling like utter garbage, that made me happy? He called me “cutie” and said he would talk to me tomorrow. More to the story, we are in a financial situation together, so he did make mention of that on the phone. But again, I chose to ignore the obvious real reason he was calling, it wasn’t to see how I was doing. I woke up happier knowing I’d talk to him today. Again…just so opposite of the healthy me I want to be! He didn’t call…so I called him. He was again not answering, I had a feeling again rejecting my calls. We have a rental house ‘together’ and the AC is terrible with bills…I’ve moved out a while ago, he owes money to the owners. I told him in a text to please not reject my calls, it’s concerning the money. (in my heart though, just another way for me to justify contact.) I couldn’t stand it anymore, i knew i was playing with HOT FIRE but made the decision to go to the house. I knew he’d be there, and I knew that there was a 99% chance he wouldn’t be alone. Sure enough, new GF was there. He treated me like he’d NEVER EVEN MET ME. SO COLD, when just prior to NC he was telling me he could picture walking down the aisle with me. Hurt like HELL, but I didn’t cry, I had ultimetely done this to myself. He asked me to leave, he only called so I would tell the home owner why his payment was late, all so his new situation upstairs (i could hear her walking around) wouldn’t be any the wiser to who I was or why I was there. I’m not a drama starter, I am not the type to have gone in to tell her who I was and what was really going on, I think he likes having women fight over him. Sadly for her, it’s the beginning of a long list of shady things that will happen while she’s his “GF”. I just kept wanting that validation and sure enough, yet again, he validated my worst fears about him that I saw red flags to in the beginning, but ignored. Now, I’m back on NC after falling off a VERY short wagon ride, and I’m dreading the pain again. All it took was that one phone call from him for the temporary high. Can’t believe how powerful that is. I wanted so badly to believe that I was so much more…
Sam, I remember those feelings, only I’d then have to go into work and see him. You’re doing great and I love the strength and honesty you radiate because you have your moments but you know which way is up. Mr Unavailables will ease their way out cut out when you start to appear to need, want, and expect more than they’re prepared to give. It’s called being expected to deliver on previous action and intention and being expected to be *consistent*. You haven’t abandoned him. I know people who are going through a tough time – they don’t pull that disrespectful, often cruel behaviour. Don’t sweat it and keep looking forward. It’s good to know that he has an ounce of shame. For now. Be thankful that he hasn’t reached out.
Sam
on 07/12/2011 at 1:33 pm
NML,
Thank you for your comment. You are so right about Mr. Unavailables. As soon as he realised he had to actually factor someone else (aka: me) into his decision making process *shock, horror* he started to back off. Whether he will eventually contact me or not, I don’t know, he’d have to have some gall now at this stage plus I’m pretty sure that a) he has devalued me enough in his mind to not want to and b) he probably *definitely* has a steady stream of narcisstic harem-ettes to service his egotisical requirements. Either way I don’t care, all he will EVER get from me is silence. 🙂
@Natalie,
I hope you are staying strong back on the NC bandwagon. I’m not going to lie, as I’ve said before those first few weeks ARE tough but there is so much to gain from going NC on these turds i.e. improved self esteem etc… Find distractions. I threw myself into my books, personal improvement and my education after the first week (recently qualified 🙂 ). I know you can do it.
Magda
on 05/12/2011 at 11:55 pm
I am trying to be NC but we are trying to move our stuff out of the house and it seems like I HAVE to contact him. Sometimes, I want to contact him so badly that I feel if I don’t, serious damage will be done to my insides. I just can’t handle the lying. I found out the truth when I read his Spanish homework. I had it translated and his bio said that he had “been married for a few years but was in the process of a divorce.” That was news to me. Every time I asked him if he wanted to be with me to work towards staying together he would emphatically say “yes!” He also said he didn’t have any children yet he has been my daughter’s father figure since she was four – she just turned 19. That felt like a slap in the face.
Lynda from L
on 06/12/2011 at 10:11 pm
Hi Magda feel your pain, hang in there though. What he has done is horrible because as you rightly identify he has impacted on the life of your child too..all the more reason why you have to get your stuff with as least hassle to you as possible. Is there anyone who can help? An intermediary who can go and get your things, do you actually need it right now or can someone who is in your corner be there for you when you go round?
Getting stuff back can be a torturous thing, it is the finality of the end of the relationship facing us down,but in my experience it’s great for moving towards closure too.
Avoid the fix of wanting to say something to him meaningful, if he is hanging around…keeping dignity intact will help you afterwards.
I wondered if you had downloaded Nat’s NC e mail, there is a specific bit about getting stuff back and keeping yourself in focus whilst doing so.
I hope you stick to NC, you can, all care and love to you.
Magda, it’s difficult to do NC when he’s still moving out. I’d be civil and professional as if you’re colleagues and focus on resolving the practicalities of the situation and when his arse is out of your home, cut him off and don’t look back. He is a complete cad. Hurtful as what you’ve discovered is, be aware that it’s all a performance to him and that he’s playacting at life. Fact is, he can’t be that fricking serious with whoever it is if he’s fabricating a past that’s bound to catch up with him. Also be careful of reading too much into the children comment. Yes it is hurtful but he’s doing the lawyer thing and playing with words. *Technically* his sperm has not created a child so in his eyes, he hasn’t lied. He’ll be saying something to this effect when the woman finds out…
Kim
on 06/12/2011 at 12:00 am
This post was so well expressed; the idea of ‘applications’ running in the background of our NC brains really worked for me. After almost a year and a half of NC I still find on some days that my ‘obsess about the ex’s disgraceful AC behaviour and the ‘why didn’t he want me’ application’ is chuntering away in the background of my mind. Although its only at about a 5% pitch nowadays, it’s annoyingly still there sometimes. Like some other BR readers have expressed, I also find it odd that after such a long time (and with my healthily embedded BR attitudes) the pain and concern that the ex caused can at times still emerge; I wonder if its a kind of post-traumatic shock syndrome we can have due to having been so extremely hurt and consumed with the madness that their mind f***ery causes.
I totally agree with the statement ……The right decision doesn’t always feel good but it doesn’t stop it from being right….. I definitely feel 1000% better for being without an AC (and all his lies to hide his harem coupled with his twisted BS to hide his weaknesses ). The only way to healing is to be rid of AssClownery in all its forms.
Thank you everyone for constantly sharing in the collective healing process.
tired_of_assanova
on 06/12/2011 at 10:41 am
It’s not an application- it’s a VIRUS. Like Assclownitis or the EUM bug!
Hello Kim! Good to hear from you and congrats! As AC behaviour goes, your ex was a real ratbag and I know how much you struggled with his lies and the mind f*ckery, so I feel like blowing up balloons and throwing a par-tay! I’m so impressed! “I definitely feel 1000% better for being without an AC” – and that is the key Kim. (((hugs)))
CoffeeCat
on 06/12/2011 at 12:11 am
Oy. This was me. I was NC for four months, but I did check the email and kept refreshing my text messages. I felt a gleeful vindictiveness when I did get a message and then ignored it. But, boy, was my brain processing constantly about when he was going to try and contact me again. Sadly, I had a major moment of weakness and ended up breaking my long streak of NC and replied to an email. We went back and forth for a few days. In the end, it was my “suck it and see” moment. Nothing.has.changed. N.O.T.H.I.N.G. I did get an apology that he hurt me, which I said thank you to, but inside I was like , it doesn’t fix the problem in the end. And you are still an AC and this is the stupidest email exchange I’ve ever been involved in. *sigh*
Any ladies out there thinking of breaking NC, don’t do it and get out there and live your life. I think if I had not been running that damn AC App in the background of my brain those 4 months, I wouldn’t have weakened.
runnergirl
on 06/12/2011 at 3:39 am
Oh Natalie, sometimes your posts make me cry and sometimes they make me laugh. This one did both as did the comments by Coffee and Kim and the others. It made me laugh because I finally got what an “app” is. I’m 52 so the new technology and jargon isn’t easy. It made me cry because I believe I’ve had the ExMM app “chuntering away in the background of my mind. Although its only at about a 5% pitch nowadays, it’s annoyingly still there sometimes” as Kim states. Although, I’m not the least bit tempted to text, email or call him, there’s still that annoying chuntering (fabulous word) app. running in the background. It was bad in the first few months of my faux NC. However, it isn’t as bad now. You are so right Natalie: “The right decision doesn’t always feel good but it doesn’t stop it from being right.” I had to laugh at staring down the chocolate swirly deserts. Not a problem for me. Too many calories and carbs. Put a tall, dark, handsome, unavailable, preferable attached male on the plate, that’s a problem for me. They burn calories, carbs, and self-respect and self-esteem.
Hey Runnergirl. Like a fever, it takes a while to sweat out the impact of these people and our own involvement. Your mind will clear. There was a time when it felt like every iota of thought was consumed by my ex when I wasn’t working, then he went into the background, and then he faded into nothing. Now, I have to recall it specifically for the purposes of introspection for writing but I don’t feel away about it. “Put a tall, dark, handsome, unavailable, preferable attached male on the plate, that’s a problem for me. They burn calories, carbs, and self-respect and self-esteem.” Yeah, that used to be my poison too *snigger*
runnergirl
on 09/12/2011 at 2:11 am
Swear to god, just after I wrote about a tall, handsome guy, I was at Starbucks, minding my own business, getting a cup-o-joe to start the day, and the most gorgeous guy with the most gorgeous eyes looked straight into my eyes as his gf? grabbed him by the arm. I didn’t say a word, ducked, and ran for cover. Thank you Natalie, I’m sweating off the fever. If you ever need help recalling how it feels to be poisoned, I’m here. Nice analogy, again!
Hi CoffeeCat, as you discovered, by remaining connected and invested in this way, it was like conducting your dynamic from a distance so you weren’t really full out of the relationship to grieve it or focus on rebuilding your life. The good thing though is you learned a lot of things from the experience because so many of us think that the angels will sing and the heavens will open when we get an apology – they don’t. It’s not that it’s not nice to get a sorry but it actually has limited closure in something that there are still your own actions to own. That, and the apology won’t turn back time or erase the memory. It’ll just make you feel slightly better about what they’ve done…until you start to wonder if they really meant it or expect them to actually do and be better. At least you’re free now to move on. You sucked, you saw, and he’s not up too much. Still.
miskwa
on 06/12/2011 at 12:37 am
Yep, you are soooo right. Doing the right thing does hurt. When I dumped a “friend” of 4 years and an AC that I worked with that was pursuing me and shagging another within the same week. it hurt. It still does. Making lists is a good idea. There’s nothing like reading the words “racist”, “homophobic”, “anti-environmental” among many others to remind me on these cold miserable nights close to the very miserable (for me anyway, with no family or support system besides you out there in electron-land) holidays to remind me that I did the right thing re. my so-called “friend. As for the AC, there is nothing like a long and very clear memory: the sight of him walking down the road after a conference to our hotel with another is a good reminder that going NC was absolutely mandatory, though he works with me. His words, and many of his actions towards me meant absolutely nothing. It is my fault; I took up with both of these clowns due to a very isolated, hostile, social situation that it is not currently possible to leave. Due to this isolation, I befriended someone way outside of what works for me in terms of his belief system, educational level and core values. Yep, I settled. Hate to say it, but sometimes going beyond “type” can blow up in your face. I became very fond of a man I worked with which never, ever, would have occurred had I been anywhere else where there were options other than nothing. Weird stuff like this never occurred before I had to take a job out West. At one level I understand I deserve all this hurt. Conversely, I often feel like someone being severely punished for something she did not do. Too bad one cannot shut off the part of the brain that feels and just plain learn to not feel anything until you can get to a better place. BTW, as I follow the old ways and am not Christian, I want to wish you all a Happy Solstice and hope that next year is a better one for all of us.
Leisha
on 06/12/2011 at 4:52 pm
It’s all the same light Miskwa. Being alone in a strange place does open us up to things we would never do when in comfortable places. I did it too. Won’t again. Being close to nature as you are and being hooked into the internet you will find peace. Take care…it’s all about the learning and keeping heart. You don’t deserve hurt, it’s just part of the process and the risk you take to love and care. Worth it? Damn straight.Blessed Be.
runnergirl
on 07/12/2011 at 4:33 am
Miskwa, I just want to reach out via cyberspace and say hello. Hello! It must be terribly difficult given your phyiscally isolated circumstances. I’m not sure where you are located geographically but it is cold here too, although maybe not as cold as where you are. Additionally, I’m not physically isolated but I feel isolated. I’m still dealing with the fact that it doesn’t much matter whether it is cold night or a warm humid night, the guy I was with (a MM) wasn’t actually there. I keep staring at my decision to go NC but what I keep seeing is a guy I invented and imagined.
It’s all better after the Solstice! Here’s to longer days and more sun! My best to you…
That’s some list Miskwa. These are people who do not add any value to your life and in fact are doing and being things that are seriously in conflict with your own values system.
You don’t ‘deserve’ all of this hurt though. You don’t. Yes you’ve made choices and yes you have your own part to own, but you don’t *deserve* the hurt. These experiences are not ‘punishments’ for trying to love but unfortunately the hurt and sometimes other repercussions are the by products. They’re still 100% responsible for their behaviour, so all you can do now is distance yourself, even if you are working in the same place and take protective and preventative measures.
Stop seeing this as a punishment and start seeing it as an experience that didn’t work out because you’re all incompatible. That’s not punishment – it’s just life. Let your feelings flow – they’ll hurt initially and then it will pass. Happy Solstice to you also.
Lotus Flower
on 06/12/2011 at 12:54 am
I am ready to share after reading this blog for about seven months. After having tried NC 3x in almost a year, last week I pushed through the two month mark that I usually cave in on. I reached a point where I couldn’t deny that the whole debacle really was about my own insecurities from a loveless childhood (abuse and my mother putting men first) and how that affected my confidence in my career aspirations. I don’t usually go for EUMs but since I’m in a challenging life transition in a new city, it was a way to avoid dealing with going deep inside myself by focusing on him. Yes, he had a part in it and took advantage of my vulnerability, but now I know that they’re always options – and I deserve to explore them. Working on myself and practicing positive self-awareness is what ultimately led to sticking with a decision – not finding a new 6-7 inches to put space between us . 🙂
I’m done with snooping on FB to see if he’s having fun without me, wondering if he misses me, and all the analyzing! I’ve been focusing on my spiritual side through meditation and have met some amazing, supportive people and it feels wonderful to just share being human. I’ve also stopped making excuses for not attending grad school and have been applying to UCLA. I’ve also accepted that this is where I am at and that’s okay. It feels wonderful to heal my heart and develop new sides of myself.
Thank you Natalie and to all the women on here for all your hard work and openness! I definitely still think about it – in fact just two weeks ago I was making up all kinds of tormenting stories after seeing a girl and him flirting on FB, but after pushing through that I realize it doesn’t matter at all in the big picture. I have a feeling I will run into him this Friday at a music event and I’m envisioning myself not bothered at all and handling it well. And only a tiny part of me will actually be faking it. It’s been a tough road but I’m grateful it all happened, because falling that low is what pushed me through the mud to blossom, just like the lotus flower that I am. I hope you all see yourselves the same way soon.
Hi Lotus Flower. I think moving to a new place seems to catch quite a few people out with unavailable relationships. As with Miskwa, part of your mindset in this situation is your response to being in a new environment. When we’re eager for company, sometimes on any terms, there’s always an unavailable around ready to fit the bill. Then as you get to know them, you see the major differences that exist between you both, only if you haven’t met other people, you may try to override your own concerns. Well done to you for cutting the Facebook habit and keep imagining yourself cool, calm, and confident. You can handle it and you can certain handle seeing him.
allie
on 06/12/2011 at 12:57 am
===The right decision doesn’t always feel good but it doesn’t stop it from being right.===
this statement reminds me what a friend one day told me, “there is a difference between what is right and what is fair” and sometimes going NC it might seem not fair (because we didn’t get closure) but it is the right thing to do. And yes it hurts sometimes too in the short term but will be better on the long term.
“Have a plan. Make a list of all of the reasons why you made the decision and any time your resolve weakens, consult the list – so many people have used the NC checklist from the NC mail to validate their concerns. Having evidence gives strength to what you’ve already done – made a decision.”
Never thought of a list before…
1. The most obvious is: he is married.
2. He is emotionally unavailable.
3. He doesn’t like to phone and that is important to me.
4. He often says he’ll do XYZ and won’t.
5. When I told him I was in love with him, he “disappeared” after telling me how amazing I was and saying he had to “think now”. He must have thought himself into a dead coma.
6. He smokes cigarettes and chews tobacco. Ew.
7. It was always about when it was convenient for him to get together or chat.
8. He would say he did not want to lead me on but then “ooze” how he felt about me or say other things that probably would have been better kept to himself.
9. Even after he knew I wanted more than “friends,” he still engaged me.
I needed this this afternoon. I had a weird moment where I considered texting him. I didn’t. Instead I played with this new gadget that came in the mail.
That’s what I have so far. Interesting seeing that in print.
Colororange, #1 on its own is a cease and desist. Keep playing with new gadgets or whatever you need to do but stop fighting the topline information – he’s married. Everything else on your list, even if you fixed them, wouldn’t matter because he’s married.
snh
on 06/12/2011 at 1:05 am
I can’t remember what post it was Nat, but you once said (and I paraphrase): at some point being NC won’t be about being NC, you’ll just be living your life. That’s so key and that’s what kept me NC and moving forward. I remember counting the days of NC on a calendar that was also filled up with school and work and dates with friends and family and alone time. I was adamant, stubbornly so (I finally put my stubborness to work FOR ME, hehe) to get to that tipping point you were talking about. And it happened. I’m not sure when it happened but it happened and I’m living my life, not living NC. Having a plan was crucial. It kept me focused on what I wanted to do instead of what I didn’t want to do (ie. contact him, break NC…). It didn’t feel good, at all, at the time because as you said I was so used to having to have it feel “right” – but having something feel “right” is only relative to the very wonky scale I was using to feel “right”. For me I actually had to do what didn’t feel good for a long while to see that it was the right thing to do. Thanks Natalie!
Lia
on 06/12/2011 at 4:57 pm
This is a clip from the show “My So-Called Life” that used to come on in the 90s in the states. 1:10-2:34 of this clip reminds me of what you just wrote about the tipping point of No Contact. I actually remember watching this and cracking up because I knew exactly how she felt. It can seem like you’re in agony while you’re going through it. And even though it seems like you’re taking super small baby steps away from that person, you are nevertheless taking steps away from them. If you are actually making progress, one day you’ll look up and find yourself not longing for them at all. And when you get there, you won’t even remember when you stopped wanting them, because you’ve been so busy living your own life and dealing with the people and things that are truly important.
I had to laugh when I read that you were putting your stubbornness to work for yourself, as I am also stubborn and had to learn to make that work for me. Actually, your whole post could have been a diary entry of my own LOL, as I also remember literally counting the days, and eventually I stopped counting too. Good to know that you also made it out alive from one of these situations SNH 🙂
Absolutely snh and your comment is testament to the power of No Contact. Being truly committed to it does mean that once you relax into yourself and your own life, you do come to forget about being NC. “it didn’t feel good, at all, at the time because as you said I was so used to having to have it feel “right” – but having something feel “right” is only relative to the very wonky scale I was using to feel “right”.” Amen.
Heartache Amy
on 06/12/2011 at 1:31 am
I’ve been NC for about a month. I’m doing better, but the hard part is seeing the AC at church every week. I do my best to avoid him but on Sunday he said a chipper “Good morning” to me and it was all I could do to stop myself from punching him. I responded “good morning” back and kept walking. The wound is reopened every week, although this week it wasn’t quite as bad, so I guess that’s good. Sometimes I feel tempted to break NC but so far I’ve been able to stop myself. I know it’s the right decision but it sure ain’t easy, especially when I’m alone and feeling sorry for myself.
Lia
on 06/12/2011 at 6:17 pm
Oh I would absolutely hate that. Since he’s gonna speak to you anyways you might as well respond by telling him that he shouldn’t. It’s all good to be polite and cordial, but there’s no point in pretending that you actually want to speak to him. Just because you walk through those sanctuary doors does not mean that you lose all that makes you human, we were created this way for a reason, and if you wouldn’t want to talk to him on the street it’s more than understandable that you wouldn’t want to do so in church. Trust me, I’m sure Jesus(0r whoever you worship) understands…
Heartache Amy, I wouldn’t waste your time. It’s about time you asked yourself what you’re tempted to break NC for? To let him know that you’re there? He knows this. To try to convince him out of his marriage? Undignified and boundary crossing. To tell him about himself? Been there, done that, what’s the point? To avoid facing your own feelings about your divorce or accepting that the fantasy of this man is over? Bingo.
It’s also important not to give a greeting that much power. You don’t actually have to say good morning or actually “morning” takes the chipper off it, especially if you’re polite but not friendly.
Church is not for making and being friends with assholes.
Lo J
on 09/12/2011 at 1:10 am
I don’t know, I have seen an ex before and not even acknowledged his existence, even when spoken to. I didn’t care how it made me look or how it made him feel. I just acted like I couldn’t hear or see him. LOL! Is that bad??! (Rhetorical question.)
Magnolia
on 06/12/2011 at 1:36 am
Oh, the planets are aligning! Let me see if I can put it down: little Magnolia decides somewhere along the line that only perfection, or being “the best,” will do. The fantasy of “success” sustains her through a rough childhood and youth, but by young adulthood it has become an escape that’s easier than learning how to build relationships.
Cue all kinds of addictive behaviours that feed into that dream of “making it big” that’s always out of reach: workaholism, some substance use, an attraction to men who seem to have made it. Also, on the flip side, an addiction to the victim story to try to justify to myself why I haven’t made it big yet.
Add into the mix a world where all kinds of people do the same thing, and will reward you for workaholism and competitiveness, and look down on you smugly for not being one of “the best”.
Who wouldn’t want to escape, escape, escape from a catch-22 where you’re either the best constantly (impossible) or worthless?
This week will mark a year since my ex stopped trying to contact me after tracking me down in a coffee shop and me saying go away. Since then, I haven’t exactly wiped him from my internal newsreel: he still has gotten all kinds of play. But seeing the parallels between turning to thoughts of him (which this post does well to remind me is not much better than turning to him in the flesh), and turning to other compulsive behaviours, has been eyeopening.
It’s no easy task to quit the drugs of one’s own thoughts: unhelpful beliefs, fantasies, what-ifs and if-onlys. But I think there is no horizon beyond that. If we can conquer our own emotional addictions (to drama, to superiority, to victimization, to shame) then the material ones (to food, substances, money, inappropriate men) should take care of themselves.
Now when I have thoughts of him and his money, I know I’m craving beauty, connection, stability, relationship, organization, confidence, peace and calmness. I can think of other things that provide those a lot better than he ever did!!
BR is one!
Elle
on 06/12/2011 at 1:21 pm
Thanks for writing this, Mags. It’s a light for me.
dawn
on 07/12/2011 at 2:37 am
Thank you Magnolia for putting your thoughts (and mine) into words. Your onto something here.
Magnolia
on 07/12/2011 at 8:44 am
After giving it more thought today, I have to add that I also have a bit of a hard time saying no to myself. It’s weird, as a kid, I was praised for not having needs and “understanding” that we didn’t have money, and that basically whatever I wanted, we couldn’t afford it.
Tonight I wandered in to the department store and did something I’ve never done before. I stared at the jewelry in the cases and asked myself if I liked any of it; if I wanted any of it. I almost started bawling right there in the Bay. This angry little voice inside was like, how dare you ask me what I want, when you can’t buy it for me? And the whole store felt like a big, cruel display of what some women get from their men.
I support myself. Always have. Most of my life I’ve done so by not wanting, not needing anything. These shoes? Vintage – i.e. second-hand. This sweater? Had it for ten years, etc. Lately I feel reckless. Though I am not in debt, every now and then I buy something totally impulsively because “I deserve it,” then usually feel bad about it. So much guilt.
As I headed home after looking at the jewelry, I felt the angry urge to “smoke an effing j” (which I’d regret later) or “eat some effing chips” (which I would also regret). Fortunately, “call up that effing AC” is no longer an option, but you get the drift.
I’ve got to get closer to myself, treat myself well and also give myself treats. I want to be able to say “no” to myself without feeling like I’m depriving myself, without feeling like I’m telling my inner child that she is still with poor caretakers who won’t/can’t give her what she wants. Sometimes the right decision is to not eat those chips, or not buy that pretty thing, or not call that guy, but I get very resentful around feeling “forced” to act in my own best interest.
My inner child just hates me, in a way – not for not buying her a tennis bracelet – but for not being able to buy her/myself my own tennis bracelet. What kind of loser am I, when even stupid ACs can shower me with gifts?
But what’s the real problem? Not being able to afford a tennis bracelet, or not being able to handle not being able to afford a tennis bracelet? Hmm.
(BTW, I had some effing organic popcorn with a side of effing yogurt asiago cheese dressing. Yum.)
AMD
on 07/12/2011 at 11:36 am
Wow reading this was like looking into a mirror. I am always at odds with my inner child. Having the desire to spoil her and give into her whims because she’s had such a rough and negligent upbringing and then desiring to do the right thing for her, which sometimes not giving into her whims and wants. Facing down the petulant inner child is very difficult though…
She is very stubborn.
Hi Magnolia, I read your comment as I was walking back from the school run and I felt like clapping. It’s shared insights like yours that make what I do so rewarding because you are one of those people that even though it may reveal things that make you uncomfortable, you are constantly striving to have a more honest view of yourself. You in fact are striving to be authentic. I often see some of myself in you, especially as there are some parallels between our backgrounds and experiences. I definitely went through a reckless phase which I think was a bit like an “Up yours, I can do whatever I want and give myself anything I desire”. As I’ve gotten older I’ve become more ‘restrained’. You have tapped into the core of the issue in this post – feeling bad about having to say NO to yourself which in turn looks like deprivation and denial, when in fact, it’s just saying No and acting in your best interests. “I get very resentful around feeling “forced” to act in my own best interest.”
And there you have it.
You see, many people who do NC or have boundaries, are very resentful about it. It’s like an inconvenience. They associate being happy and giving themselves everything they want, we having no limits, avoiding conflict, not saying NO. In their minds, they don’t want to deny themselves so they focus on the reward of getting what they appear to want while at the same time hating how they get to it or what happens afterwards. These same people, in turn then feel bad about denying their aggressors access or saying NO, because they have such a negative association with it, that they don’t want to do for others what they don’t want to do for themselves.
Oh and the popcorn sounds delightful! Nom nom. My thing right now is brie and rice crackers.
Lo J
on 07/12/2011 at 1:32 pm
These comments made me think about my “epiphany” moment with the biggest AC I encountered. No BR at the time but after him, I was like, “This is it!” I quit smoking (he was a smoker and I associated cigarettes with him), I said I was no longer eating unhealthy food, and no more bad penis! I was no longer allowing anything “unhealthy” to enter my body AGAIN!! I went on a 3 year dating hiatus after that and have improved (not perfected) boundaries and have been smoke free ever since. The food thing … well … LOL … It was defining moment for me for sure.
Magnolia
on 07/12/2011 at 8:34 pm
Ah! Light bulb!
“They associate being happy and giving themselves everything they want, we having no limits, avoiding conflict, not saying NO.”
That’s why I am so pissed about leaving the AC to his life of luxury. There was an aspect of it, if you didn’t look too closely and rode on the surface, of never having to say no to oneself. While I was with him he bought a 1.7 mil house, paid cash for two cars, flew me to the Caribbean and a number of other places, took me regularly to dinner at places that now, I can only walk by and wonder if I’ll ever eat there again. He never said no to himself. And he seemed to offer me the same lifestyle.
But the underside of that is actually pretty horrific. He also wouldn’t say no to himself around the attentions of new women, stealing employees from friends, lying to get something he wanted, expressing irritation with me etc. I always had the sense that his $$ was there to try to cover these insatiable urges, which he felt were his right to have, and I never trusted that he really could say a healthy no. The reality of what that meant, of him having no impulse control and thinking he needed none, finally slapped me upside the head when I saw him make excuses and rationalizations for exposing himself to an eleven-year-old girl.
I would spend time with him, feel good, then awful, then be on my own for a day or two in my ‘normal,’ tightly budgeted world and want to go back to his world of no limits.
I also remember feeling that he would taunt me by showing me he could buy things that I wanted, but was saving up for, in a moment’s impulse. He did that to me when we were shopping for a bike for me. And on the day we broke up, he presented me with a guitar that is far more expensive than I’d ever realistically choose to give myself. Sounds nice, but it felt like a punch in the gut.
Smashing the ‘inconvenience’ of a limit sounds like the ideal but it’s actually terrifying to feel there is no limit at all. All the pretty stuff in the world was no appeasement for feeling as though my life would be centred around him never having to deny himself. I guess that’s why it’s also said that growing up, even if they throw a tantrum, kids do want to learn limits and feel the love of their parents enforcing those limits. Thanks for the connection!
runnergirl
on 08/12/2011 at 1:47 am
Hey there Magnolia, hold the phone…he exposed himself to a child? Did I read that right? If so, I’m counting your lucky stars for you. Big hugs to you for one year AC-free. Your comment conjured up images of my father’s voyeristic/child porn criminal behavior and how he is probably still perpetrating his crimes.
On another note, your comment and Natalie’s response created a ton of self-reflection regarding my childhood deprivation and my adulthood resentment of having to say no to me, even when it is in my best interest. Making the right decision, even when it feels bad, triggers childhood deprivation issues including not having shiny bobbles as well as emotional support. BTW, I’ve always wanted a tennis bracelet too. I’d probably lose it in 24 hours though. Your description of looking at the jewerly really struck home. I’ve done it too. It all seems so sparkly, too expensive, and I don’t feel worth it even if I could afford it, which I can’t. Note to self: Need to work on self- worth and maybe save up to buy a sparkly bobble?
Most importantly, your comments made me start to address what is happening with my daughter (22). I can’t say no to her even though it may be in her best interest. I’ve sunk so far into debt financing her education. Since I had to work and pay for every cent of my education, I want her to have the monetary and emotional support I never had. She is doing so great in school, almost straight A’s as an undergrad, and is described by one of her professors as “scary smart”, and she loves school. No drugs, no pregancies, no legal problems that I know of. Just a great college kid involved totally in college.
I still don’t seem to have a compass of when enough is enough when it comes to my daughter or men. I’m closer now to addressing my issues with men. Thank you for the connection between childhood deprivation issues and the difficulty making the right decision in adulthood. That is a tremendous connection for me.
This is such an incredible, amazing group of folks. I appreciate you all. In fact, I’m more connected to you all than 90% of the people I see. Of course, thank you Natalie. You have brought such an amazing group of people world-wide together. However, I am disappointed there are AC’s in Greece and Australia. I thought it was perfect there!
Tulipa
on 06/12/2011 at 2:12 am
Turning down things that do let us feel good in the moment but give us a longer hangover, is us acting in our own best interests.
In our last phone conversation which he was desperately trying to get things back on an even keel. I was talking too much etc.
He ended the conversation with the reset button. He told me he would call me (December) and arrange to meet me for dinner.
Accepting this invitation (should he call of course) would make me feel good in the moment, but once the dinner has ended I know I would feel bad thinking I’m not good enough, he won’t call again even though he says he will, he will be with someone else just like this year, but he won’t tell me he will want me to chase him.
That long term low won’t be worth that small high. I’ve been at the crack a long time now.
grace
on 06/12/2011 at 12:48 pm
Tulipa
Please I beg you don’t go to dinner with him. Or wait for him to call.
How long has this clown been in your life (or rather pissing about on the periphery?) You’re in danger of giving over yet ANOTHER YEAR to him. It’s too much already!
You have to make a decision – not just wait around for a man to call you. In that, I have to agree with the silly Rules book. It’s beneath your dignity.
You tried being his girlfriend ( I think), you tried FWBs, now you’re trying friendship. It’s time to give it up.
I don’t care if he’s the reincarnation of the young Marlon Brando, he’s not worth it.
colororange
on 06/12/2011 at 5:29 pm
Yeah, those highs get you up there and you’re feeling “oh, this is going to last. Oh, this is it, he’ll live up to the greatness I perceive him to be.” Then doooowwwwnnnn ya go sliding down the slippery slope into near fatal disappointment. That low that seems to last indefinitely all to chase after that momentary high yet again. That high of him following through, saying something sweet and like he’s going to be with you THIS time. But no. It’s as if he says “psych!!!! Juuuuust kiddin!!!!!”
Yes, I hear you.
Tulipa
on 06/12/2011 at 6:47 pm
That is the part I’m don’t know what to do about. I know not to go to dinner with him that small fleeting high will only last for a moment. But I can’t or don’t want to call him to say I don’t want to have dinner this year has been the only year where he has said I will call you etc. and hasn’t done it, so he may not call me now. So I guess in a way I am waiting for the call.
If I have him in my life I will hit the 5 year mark in February and I definately don’t have another year to waste nor do I want to waste more time.
@ Colororange we will survive and be better for it I’m sure about that. I’m sure you have found too that the high is not as good as it once was nor does it last as long each time they come back or we go back.
Thanks for the laugh.
grace
on 07/12/2011 at 2:35 pm
Tulipa
Five years! It’s worse than I thought. That’s half a decade. Women have met someone, got married and had a child in less time than that.
Drop him already. Don’t pick up his calls, don’t respond to his text, no FB-ing, no e-mails, no drive-bys.
Don’t worry about “ignoring him”. What’s he been doing to you for five years? Insofar as he cares at all, he’ll just say to himself “Man,finally, Tulipa has got her act together”.
You don’t have to call him to tell him you’re not doing something. Fill your life with other things.
Have you tried knitting? I’m making a sweater. If it takes me five years I’ll know that knitting is not for me.
colororange
on 07/12/2011 at 2:36 pm
Tulipa,
The waiting is painful. It’s annoying not wanting to wait yet wanting to wait and that confusion. I know even as I type this I still wonder if ex MM will call/text/email. Maybe what I said to him the last time pissed him off or pushed him away……I do not know. All I know is he said he needed to think, think about what I am not sure. It’s hard because I can be around this man and be perfectly content not sleeping with him (we never slept together). I can enjoy his company and it’s nice. BUT, the emotional roller coaster of wondering what’s going to happen next and OMG what did I do/say wrong now!?! has worn me plumb out. Truthfully, this effin sucks. I drew my boundary when I chose to leave him alone and keep on my side of the fence. He knows how I feel about him and I have a good sense how he feels about me. For me it’s a constant finding a preoccupation to completely have my mind on other things. I may never hear from him again. I do take comfort in finally just telling him how I felt and he can do with that what he will. In the mean time, as hard as it may be, just for this minute, I focus on me even if there’s a nagging wondering in the background if he’ll ever contact me. I figure if I keep focusing on me, eventually the rest will fade out.
Tulipa
on 08/12/2011 at 7:02 am
Oh yes I remember the roller coaster ride was fun for a few months, but that was about it.
I have done no contact in the past and it is true my no contact phases went well when I was busy and concentrated on me, shame he contacted me before it took root and I was back in over one text.
You can now move on Colororange you are right he has the infomation needed and he can fade away 😀
Grace, your comment about knitting made me laugh I hope you and knitting do get along.
And the relief that I can just ignore him of course I can.
Here’s to 2012 and new hobbies and one with no chasing unavailable men.
Tulipa, do you know what stubborn means? Having a dogged determination not to change your attitude or position on something, in spite of good arguments and reasons to do so. (source Oxford Dictionary).
You are refusing to back down. You’re a protestor with your placard but I don’t think you even know anymore what the hell you’re protesting about! You just want to be ‘right’ at the expense of yourself and the fact is, hard as it may be to hear, you’re humiliating yourself by tailspinning yourself over crumbs.
Think about it – is all of ‘this’ worth it over a phone conversation and meeting for dinner. FIVE.YEARS. Tulipa. Is this all that it’s coming down to? Worrying about some poxy dinner where you give him permission to press the reset button and then worry in advance about feeling bad about it? Oh heeeelll no! I’ve had two kids in five years, become self-employed, traveled, made new friends, enjoyed old friends, taken up new hobbies, rediscovered old passions, stretched myself and the list goes on.
Has your outlook changed from the beginning to now?
Has your relationship grown positively from the beginning to now?
Has this relationship changed in the last month, three months, six, nine, twelve months? Two, three, four years?
If how you see things, especially this relationship, has not changed and grown during this period, you are wasting.
If your situation has not emotionally and physically improved over these periods, you are wasting your own time. You will have severe regrets if you continue. You can nip this in the bud now.
Stubbornness and pride comes before a fall. You must know when to wind your neck in and suck it up. Any fear you have about losing and being wrong is a waste – you’ve already lost and been wrong about this man so what you fear has already passed and happened. You are free – it’s just that you persist in imprisoning yourself in a prison of your own making that isn’t even locked.
Tulipa, it’s time for you to pull your shit together. You would never and could never be happy with someone who you had to behave so desperately in order to even get some pathetic crumbs.
If only you applied your dogged determination to yourself in a positive manner, you could achieve wonderful things.
Tulipa
on 11/12/2011 at 10:51 am
I think I can say I have been more than stupid.
I didn’t even work out he was in a relationship and if I had or if he had told me I would be way ahead of myself this year.
I can’t change what has happened I can now only choose to go forward and put the placard away.
I can truthfully say other areas of my life have not been so stagnant as the relationship area of my life. Though I’m very pleased with myself that I have turned down dates using my knowledge of BR. I could see the red flags waving from the get go and knew better than to get involved.
The prison comment got me thinking about my past and in some way I have always lived in a prison in fact when I was younger I used to think serving prison time would be easy for me because living at home seemed liked serving a prison sentence, I couldn’t walk out then and sometimes I truly think I forget that now I can just walk out.
You are right it is time to be positive about me and do more for me.
MaryC
on 06/12/2011 at 2:36 am
….”The right decision doesn’t always feel good but it doesn’t stop it from being right”. Thanks for that one Nat. For me the holiday season has always been the toughest to keep NC. Your words saved me again from making a huge mistake.
I loved the “Application” analogy, the only one I’m going to keep running in my head is the “NC” one.
Amen and hugs to you MaryC. Don’t make the holidays all about your ex – this is a time to focus on the things that matter, not to feel bad or even nostalgic about a jackass.
S
on 06/12/2011 at 3:01 am
This may sound off-topic but from my experience, going NC and snooping around on facebook or any social network can really really hinder healing. That’s one thing I’ve realized. Plus being with a narcissist who plays mind games via facebook can make you go crazy, for me I knew that I was turning into a narcissist too to keep up with him. I just knew that in order to heal, I had to forget he ever existed, and for my own good, go on a social networking diet and a man diet. What helped me acknowledge this was looong time ago, I had a “serious” crush when I was about 16 or 17, I liked this guy for about 3 years and never thought I’d forget him, fantasized about him every day, didn’t help that we were in the same classes. But I moved to a different school and all of a sudden, I started to think less and less about him. The good part then was that social networking was pretty much unheard of, I realize today how difficult moving on is when there’s real time feed of a person’s life being fed to you. But even when I’ve pretty much quit all virtual forms of social networking and focused more on being around people, I still think about him and I am tempted to fantasize- “just you wait, there will come a time when I’m going to find someone better than you, and I’m living a fantastic life…and you’re going to realize what you gave up”. Not good because I’m thinking about him instead of reality and the things around me and actually building a fantastic life for myself. But on the other hand there are times when I think about him and I realize, how stupid I have been to have actually believed him or what the F was I thinking when I called him 14 times to apologize. This is the reality and I force myself to understand that I only did that because he kept “punishing” me in really passive aggressive ways and I decided to reinforce his passive aggressiveness, AND I’m glad I no longer have to deal with someone like that. Most important of all, I will not repeat that ever again. Everyday I have a new epiphany about how distorted my idea of love was. It’s been over a month, I am getting to know myself more everyday and how I deal with situations without his influence, I know a lot of women hate being alone, but like my mom always tells me, learning to enjoy your own company will never make you lonely. ? Stay strong and stick to your priorities.
grace
on 06/12/2011 at 12:53 pm
S
It’s not off topic. if we’re snooping on FB, it’s not really NC.
With the MM, I didn’t see him more than once, we didn’t have sex or kiss or hold hands, we didn’t phone, all we did was flippin text. Then it was flippin FB, then I broke it off but kept FB stalking him.
In the end I had to block him. When I blocked him I burst into tears like a drama queen – and then within SECONDS I started to feel a million times better. Haven’t looked back since. I have the power!
It’s not just about getting rid of a clown, it’s about realising that you can make a decision for yourself and stick to it. That’s the ultimate freedom and privelege we have as human beings. It’ s a very sad state of affairs to give that up for someone who doesn’t even want you.
Goldie
on 06/12/2011 at 10:22 pm
BTDT. Except I didn’t feel better, I felt awful. After I deleted the guy on FB, I felt so bad, I sent him an apology and an invite to reconnect three days later, thank god he ignored it. There was one last social site where I still stayed connected to him for four months — one of those places where you track the things you watch, read, and listen to — I thought it was no big deal to stay connected on that one. A few weeks ago, I finally realized that even this connection was toxic — any time he’d post an update, I’d be reminded of him. If I’d deleted him, though, he’d still have been listed as following me, which would’ve still sucked me in and made me check for updates and potentially start following him again. So, instead of deleting the guy, I deleted and recreated my whole account. HA! 🙂 Felt good — like I’d finally cut that damn cord! I still miss seeing his updates from time to time, but, frankly, his tastes in books, movies and music sucked, so I’m better off. Having him on my FB friend list, now that was pure poison. Each time his update would show up in my feed, with all his female friends liking and commenting on it, it made me backslide. Good thing I ended that early. Though, like I said, it did feel terrible.
Thanks for sharing S and you are right that what basically amounts to stalking someone on Facebook will hinder your progress. What we have to recognise as part of our own emotional honesty, is when a situation is impacting us. Social networking isn’t social or networking if it creates a great deal of anxiety or headache. If you’re not getting a genuinely positive benefit from it or seeing someone’s pathetic passive aggressive let me advertise myself updates is winding you up, you have to cut yourself off from the source of the pain…not keep looking at it.
Well done for facing what is going on here and owning your own actions so that you can break this cycle and his hold on you. No man that has you calling 14 times to apologise is ever going to be the man for you anyway.
AngelFace
on 06/12/2011 at 3:27 am
I like the idea of keeping busy & even scheduling out the first 2 weeks of NC. I find that when I’m tired (I work Hard.), and when I’m tired& alone, that I can think of him. I’m 7 weeks NC and over last weekend I really wanted to call him. I didn’t., and I’m not going to. So, for the next weekend and the couple following that I will schedule them in advance – just to be safe & happy.
Also, last week I was fortunate enough to work in the Netherlands and I was in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. People there seemed very happy and content, and I saw many couples out together. I hear that the ratio of men to women is higher… maybe it is the social behavior of the people there to? But I liked the vibe.
I also refer to my mental list of all the horrible things my x is and did, and that keeps me from breaking NC. I think I will go sing Country karaoke this Wed night & shake up my work week schedule a bit…. hmmm, maybe the fushia sweater dress?! Maybe a Heineken to toast the Dutch people whom I now admire 🙂
My brother lives in Amsterdam and while he works very hard, he loves it out there and it’s very social. I think it is helped by the fact that he works for an American company that has staff from all over the world, so creating a social environment that allows them to feel included and happy is important. Keep referring to your list AngelFace and go an enjoy karaoke (love it!) – basically keep enjoying life.
yoshizzle
on 06/12/2011 at 5:31 am
Nat — i made the for REAL NC move almost a year ago. I told him basically unless he had a personality transplant, not to contact me.
We live in a population of 10, 000. I work in a store that is the only one around providing a particular service. I love my job. But he and I shared an interest in the hobby the store services and so he was, and is, a regular customer. He comes in once a day, on average. Sometimes more.
I treat him as politely and cooly as any other “bothersome” customer. But as soon as he walks in my stomach drops out, my heart races, and i lose my concentration. I feel shaky,even. Some days he attempts small talk, which i don’t engage in, and some days he seems cold toward me and two days last week he glared at me and seemed very angry (for no reason i know of) and then today back to trying small talk.
I know i’m having a physical/emotional reaction caused by his presence because i must have some ingrained belief i’m not aware of. (?!) I am not interested in him as friend, foe or lover, if i never saw him again it’d be fine. I’m not even angry with him, i don’t think about him, it’s so over.
but yet as i said, i spin off into a mini anxiety attack when he comes in.
HOW TO DEAL?! what’s going on?? and also, should i do anything? i think just treating him like a customer is best. With a bit of a cool edge, no small talk like i do with the other customers. Any other advice?
Magnolia
on 06/12/2011 at 8:51 pm
Hi yoshizzle,
It doesn’t sound as though you’re totally over him if you have a little panic attack once he leaves. I’m not saying you want to get back together with him, it just sounds as though his presence still bothers you. In some ways, I think you just give it time – go to the back of the store when he comes in or something.
My ex-AC from before last lived three doors down from me after messing me psychologically, and for months just seeing him would make me feel dissociative and sick. Within a year or so I just found it extremely unpleasant to see him. The other day (three years later) he came to an event I host and I found myself treating him like any other guest – grabbing him a chair, grabbing his gf a chair, asking if they were comfy, then moving on and attending to everyone else.
He actually seemed sort of relieved, like I was ‘not angry’ anymore and talking to him again, and if somewhere in his machiavellian reptile brain he thinks he’s forgiven, then whatev, I don’t care. He’s right; he’s forgiven. Doesn’t mean we’re new besties or anything.
I’d just tell yourself it will take some time, it may be unpleasant to see him, but eventually you will be really over it, and when he comes in and leaves it won’t register. You can’t really rush that.
yoshizzle
on 10/12/2011 at 4:30 am
yes, i also sensed strongly that this guy felt he was “forgiven” the very first time he came in and saw me working there. Bcuz i was polite, businesslike, and pleasant. He immediately leaned up on the counter and was all happy., I didnt care, i just kept working, not engaging. He , i am quite sure ….and tell me if you agree, NAT, …i am pretty sure he mistook my professional polite demeanor…for forgiveness…and then immediately pressed the RESET BUTTON and has acted that way ever since.
Yoshizzle, imagine yourself as a door, that you’ve now closed and locked. Your jackass ex comes along and tries to open the door, but discovers that his key doesn’t work. He keeps trying it but no result. He has a root around and pulls out a selection of keys that he knows used to work on you. Still nothing. He comes back another day and tries to jimmy the lock with hairpin. Another day he tries with a credit card. Another day he kicks at it furiously and you’re near crapping yourself and feeling you should cave in and unlock, but you hold your ground. The next time, he tries the gentle and polite approach with the door, maybe pressing the doorbell, trying to look through the letterbox. The time after that he serenades you or leaves flowers or rat droppings (snigger). Then he gets pissed off again that the door isn’t open so he tries to take a hammer to it. Maybe he kicks at it, thumps the crap out of it, or stands a few feet away throwing rocks and hoping you’d be intimidated. You’re scared and wondering why the hell he’s doing this. He then tries a calmer approach to the door. Then gets frustrated again. And lather, rinse, repeat.
He is being tactical to break down your defences to get you to ‘open the door’. He doesn’t want you; he just wants to win.
What you don’t do is open the door.
Lia
on 07/12/2011 at 1:34 am
Whoa. That’s one hell of an analogy, but when you put it that way you can’t really see it for anything other than what it is.
jennynic
on 07/12/2011 at 2:28 am
Natalie, Your response to Yoshizzle helped me today. Yesterday, my most recent ex ( pretty boy alcoholic) showed up at the same beach as me and although he didn’t approach me, he came pretty close to me and waved. I waved and then turned my back to him, but my heart was going a mile a minute and I felt sick to my stomach. I have been NC for 5 months, asked him to leave me alone the last time he approached me, and have ignored any attempt of his to try to talk to me (text messages, how original). He stared at me the whole time and then left a note on my car saying he looked forward to talking to me soon, then sent me two text messages with pointless messages, like, “hope you enjoy the sunset.” I ran into him again same day when he showed up at yet another place I was and parked near me. I ignored him. Although NC has been the right thing for me and I won’t break it, my physical reaction to being 50 feet away from him was not fun. I can relate to Yoshizzle. Your comparison to someone trying all kinds of ways to open the locked door made me laugh and lighten up a bit. I realize I am giving him too much power over my emotions. Now I picture him with a tool box prodding around for my weakness. I just added another mental lock to my door. And it’s time to put another block on my phone…..it expires every 90 days.
grace
on 07/12/2011 at 2:39 pm
NML
Or:
“I’ll huff and I’ll puff and I’ll blow your house down!”
Yosh
Let him huff and puff – you’re built of strong stuff, not straw. Be as polite as necessary. Otherwise ignore.
Lo J
on 08/12/2011 at 1:06 pm
“He just wants to win.”
Being where I am now, I see how I was just like the EU men I was involved with throughout the years. Though at the time I thought I LOVED them. Once it was “reciprocated” and I use the term loosely, they just weren’t as attractive.
Once we get the focus OFF these guys and onto US, we aren’t that different, girls.
Goes back to that being RIGHT. Let it go!! Love is not a battle.
grace
on 08/12/2011 at 3:13 pm
Lo J
Absolutely. It sticks in our throats to admit it, but we’re like them. We may not be as ass-like but we sure are indecisive, back-and-forth, hot-and-cold, having sex with men we’re not sure about, going back on our decisions, second-guessing ourselves, breaking up and going back, changing our minds, starting NC, stopping NC, breaking NC, living a fantasy, ignoring the truth, not living up to our own standards.
These things are EU behaviour just as much as his.
yoshizzle
on 10/12/2011 at 4:23 am
holy CRAP!!! first off…”WIN”…win WHAT?! he doesn’t want me. he just wants, i’m fairly sure, narcissistic supply. This is one of the stores he goes into to have social conversation bcuz he doesn’t have friends or anyone else. He does the same thing to my best friend who works in the OTHER store he goes into….we are forgettable ppl to him, he just needs someone to talk about himself to. Now ME, ok, i’m not so forgettable, but i’m certainly disposable. Perhaps he’s angry that he cannot squeeze any attention from me whatsoever. Perhaps that’s all he cares to win. Perhaps he really is angry he can’t get it… i never thought of that: that he’s glaring and pissy because he gets the same cool , uninterested, polite treatment every single time no matter what!It seemed he was furious with me for no apparant reason, but that sounds like a reason. wow… that’s effed up…but again, i’m beyond even believing fully ANYthing about this alien . THat could well be it, and i’ll do just what i planned on: nothing. Because, there IS nothing I want to do.
I think I feel shaky not because i want anything from him..but bcuz being around a (narcissist) person who might at any moment cut you off completely, or rage at you, or whatever, is actually traumatizing. Even though I was only “with” him for a few months, the impact was like no other. I can see my kids dad (eu) who i was with for TEN YEARS and we’re on ok terms. No physical/emotional reaction. We actually get along pretty well as long as i’m not expecting him to be an equal parent to our kids… But that’s cuz he was a fairly normal human being. This other one….eesh. gives me the creeps. and hearing what your reply…even creepier!
yoshizzle
on 14/12/2011 at 5:34 pm
Well Nat, after some consideration, with your response (and the article on it) , I am thinking you are right again! I really didn’t think buddy would waste an iota of time on door-crashing, but right after your response, he came in again, and was friendly. No re,sponse from me, just business. Three days later, comes in and is cold, icy stare, no response when i greeted him with a simple “hi” as i do all the customers. I thought it had to do with his current mood: and i still do…but the flipping from friendly to icy is indicative of your tactic-analogy. Thanks, that helped somehow, just having an idea of what’s going on.
Sophie
on 06/12/2011 at 7:45 am
I Totally agree Natalie!
I have done NC 3 times in the last 2 years. The first time I decided to go NC, I unfriended my AC from FB. But I continued to stalk him because his FB page was public – I checked his page, his daughter’s, his mom’s more than 10 times a day. I was tracking his every move.
I broke NC all 3 times!! And when we got back together, I still continued to check. If he said he was having dinner with his daughter, I would check her twitter and FB page to find out if it was true. I was OBSESSED, I cried, prayed, did NC, broke NC – nothing worked.
3 months ago, he did something that shook me to my core and I decided enough was enough. But I didn’t trust myself because I have done NC successfully for over 4 months and still failed. So this time, I made a plan. The first thing I did was to STOP TRACKING HIS MOVEMENT!!!
I took it day by day. He is a musician so I made sure that I don’t go places where I think he would be at so I don’t run into him. I stopped checking our common friends FB page because I don’t want to see or read anything about him, I DON’T CARE to know what he is up to ANYMORE. I STOPPED. PERIOD!!! AND THAT STOPPED MY TORMENT!!!
It has been a successful 90 days since NC and I am still going strong!!! He crosses my mind from time to time and I still hurt. A LOT. But I know I finally am on my way to be healed.
tired_of_assanova
on 06/12/2011 at 10:43 pm
Oh *headache* I didn’t block it, just defriend. What happens? The events they go to pop up and then I find out that they’re screwing, well let’s not go there…
It never does anything anyway! It is like trying to fall in love with someone on TV that you have never met in person. I blocked their profile.
It is hard because you are curious, you want to know why what happened happened, you want to see or hope that there will be some secret message / signal that he’s gonna U-turn and come blazing back for you (be careful if he does, something is wrong with that picture) and it will be all fine and dandy.
We spend so much time trying to communicate that we love them, we want our feelings back, we care for them, we get frustrated that our love isn’t working, wondering why it is so hard to get through to them— they spend all their time communicating ‘I am not interested’, sit in a chair and lap all the attention.
Well done on 90 days Sophie! I think what you can learn from going back is that you didn’t trust him and without trust, there’s no relationship. It also ends up demeaning you when you have to keep track of him because it would just be better to be with someone who you had mutual love, care, trust, and respect with. Kudos to you for quitting while you’re ahead. This is a commitment and making it only gives you strength.
Alice Ayres
on 06/12/2011 at 8:42 am
I have made the decision to go NC with a guy who I’ve known for a long time, in a relationship where we’ve blown hot and cold for each other and caused each other a lot of pain. It is absolutely the right thing to do. It’s so hard and I am so sad. I have deleted numbers, texts and email messages (in their thousands!) and I have stopped looking at his online (smug) blog postings… But to say “it doesn’t feel good” is the understatement of the year! I feel lost and lonely, and utterly rubbish. He and I texted back and forth, every day and usually hundreds of times every day (and yes, I know I was being managed by text!). That constant ‘voice’ or presence in my life, knowing that someone is thinking about you and you are trading little snippets of information about how your day is going… someone asking how you are or giving you a few words of support (yes, I know, crumbs), when you are in the middle of a busy day… when it stops… things get awfully quiet. We did have a ‘real’ relationship though, not just a text one, and we saw each other about once a month. We were supposed to meet yesterday and didn’t, and it was hard not to think about him. I’m lucky that I have lots to keep me busy but it’s still a huge effort to distract myself. I am running those apps that Natalie mentioned for sure… and I am feeling very guilty and ashamed for the ending which was full of spite and anger and then (of course) apologies from me to him for being mean (he’s had a really rough year and I just feel I am adding to his worries, which is stupid, because he clearly doesn’t give a damn).
“I feel that I was rude (although HE was the one doing the mindf*uckery, the non-commitment, the incipient cheating, etc) and that is giving me such a hard time… Is that normal? Am I insane? How come I feel like the rude one?”
I don’t know if it’s normal Beckceci, and I don’t know if it’s sane (I suspect not very), but I do know what you mean!
This is such a great site – thanks to Natalie and everyone here. I’m off to swallow more NC medicine. Tastes foul – does you good!
Hi Alice, I think much of what you’re feeling is normal because if I did something hundreds of times a day, you’d feel a gaping void. Initially. But it’s a habit and a habit can be broken. It’s just that it will feel shit before it feels better but it would have been wholly unrealistic to expect for it to be any other way. Doing the right thing isn’t always easy, never mind it not always feeling good initially. I’m sure I also don’t need to point out that all of this texting was a poor substitute for speaking and seeing each other regularly. The amount of time you spent texting, you could have seen each other many times over and the truth is, if you both have the time and energy to send that many texts, you were both engaging in some serious avoidance. I’m lucky if I send a few hundred texts a YEAR.
“I’m off to swallow more NC medicine. Tastes foul – does you good!” Amen
Madison
on 06/12/2011 at 10:56 am
I am a big advocate of NC, in fact I did it (or tried to) for 14 months but about halfway through I started fantasising about him again. Torturing myself with thoughts of him and his wife (long story but after we broke up he lost his job, moved in with another woman to save money and married her as she was about to be deported) and generally feeling sorry for myself because all my attempts to meet someone kept falling flat. One of the things I did do though was fill my life with lots of activities and made loads of new friends but I still wasn’t busy enough to take the focus off him.
And then one evening as I was walking home from the gym looking an utter state.. and there he was standing outside my building. Of course my resolve to tell him to get lost crumbled, I heard his sorry story about being unhappy and not loving her and we ended up kissing. A week later we had dinner and got physical although I wouldn’t let him sleep with me.
But you know the funniest thing? I have stopped fantasising and thinking about him because I realise that I don’t need him anymore. All the activities I started are now making my life very busy and mind is full. I feel like he is a relic of my past and that I just want to leave him behind. My rose tinted glasses have finally come off and he is not the romantic hero I thought he was. He is overweight and the kind of man who has no qualms about asking me to go on holiday with him while his wife is away for a month! Regardless of the visa issue, they have been together for a year but he still doesn’t love her and would happily cheat on her while she waits in vain for him to fall in love with her.
No that is not the man I fell in love with and it is only him coming back into my life out of the blue that made me realise it. It has given me the closure I wanted and needed. Time and distance really do open your eyes.
Great comment Madison – you really don’t want a man that would behave like this. It doesn’t really matter how he’s come to be married – he’s married AND a user. It would be like feeling bad about the fact that he’s not using you *instead*. You definitely don’t need him anymore – you never did!
Sharon
on 06/12/2011 at 1:28 pm
Good for you Sophie.
Yosizzle. You are doing the right thing. Business as usual. If you can, have someone else wait on him.
Alice, the quiet is tough. I was an attention junkie and everytime he text me I got a little high. “someone loves me, someone cares” I was in the same situation with the MM. I went NC again for, let me see….the 20th time two weeks ago? I asked him to leave me alone, he followed me into a bar when I was with friends and continuously steps over boundries. Why? because it always worked in the past. At one point he showed up at my house at 8:30 am while I was getting ready for work because he was feeling depressed and it was impulsive. I sent him away and told him next time I’m depressed I will show up at his house! He continues to send my texts which I delete. His last one was “if you refuse to talk to me, do you want me to seek someone else out?” REALLY? I saved this text just to look at when and IF I feel weak. I am kicking myself since I had gone NC last year for 6 months and it broke when he text me on my birthday starting off as friends. Sex within 2 months of that. There is no middle ground…… NC with a list of all the sh..t he has done in my purse to remind me. When I get his texts, It makes me sick now. I know he will keep it up so now it is a battle of deletes! It is good to block the facebook etc. Just for You! HOpe this helps.
Chat
on 06/12/2011 at 1:55 pm
Dear Natalie,
Hello! I’m a queer woman in early 20’s from Japan. I’ve been blessed with an opportunity to fortunately bump into your wonderful blog and I have to say that your posts have been literally saving my sanity. First of all, thank you so much!
I went through a really tough romantic rollercoaster with a girl which lasted for nearly four years. She broke off this so-called “relationship” with a selfish mobile text and blocked me completely after that. I couldn’t sleep, eat or look at reality with a right mindset for months and months. Everything and everybody reminded me of her. It’s been nearly 20 months since the incident. I’m ashamed to say that I’ve cyber stalked her numerous times in the past 20 months which is a very long time (blergh). I tried to stop numerous times but broke my vows numerous times. I was on the verge of giving it all up and was ready to just delve into depression again but I was sick of being depressed too. It was then that I realized that I am deliberately hurting myself, that it’s *me who’s intentionally going through hell. I guess you can call it a bad habit/addiction.
I finally decided to stop a few days ago. I used to go to bed thinking about this person or wake up in the morning and the first thing that came up on my mind would be her face.
I’ve been trying to focus on the positive aspects of my own life, to find beauty in the things and people and in myself, which is making me feel much much better. And really, this person was, is, and *never will be this so called “ideal perfect lover” nor soulmate. They were simply not *the one, isn’t and never will be.
Hopefully I can persevere and in time, I’ll be so sucked into my own life, I wouldn’t have to think about breaking the NC!
Thank you again!
Elle
on 06/12/2011 at 10:41 pm
You’ve found the right site, Chat! Keep going with NC and with doing small things, mentally and practically, to give your mind a break from this, to let knew light in, and to build confidence again. There are a lot of ways to feel loved and express love in this life, so, yes, keep going on your mission to see beauty and joy in things other than your last relationship, which was not, actually, that charming.
Hi Chat, this sounds like a very painful situation and I’m glad you’ve decided to stop because it’s like pouring salt on the wound over and over again. Take your time and nurture yourself. I think this whole cyberstalking (or just general stalking) arises out of trying to keep control of them in some way so that you can keep control of yourself, which backfires because you end up being reduced to what can be quite humiliating behaviour, which in turn makes you feel bad and even very angry, which then has you seeking to be in control again, which then has you seeking them out again. She’s not yours though. Even if you were together still, she’s not your possession so it’s like you’ve moved out of a property but are sneaking in from time to time, or hanging around outside.
I would formulate a plan of how you’re going to fill up your time and also do some unsent letters. If you can, I think it would also be helpful to see a counselor so that you can really lay this relationship to rest.
The relationship is broken – you’re not.
Chat
on 11/12/2011 at 9:00 am
Dear Elle and Natalie,
Thank you so much for the supportive words, this wonderful site makes me realize that I’m not the only one going through such pain. Thank you once again!
Story
on 06/12/2011 at 2:34 pm
After I re-started NC in September, it was tough. I kept thinking, and sometimes I still think, about the amazing first letters and conversations he and I shared(long-distance). But the truth is that it was a case of pursuit and curiosity on his part. Like several of Nat’s posts have shown, hot pursuit might later equal cold feet.
I needed this post at this very time! I’ve been working out and feeling great. Returned to college to finish my degree(something this rejection forced me into was looking closely at my life–did I want to be in the same “cozy” job always, or did I want to use my talents and abilities to do something I loved). I’ve almost finished my first semester!
My sister is nearly engaged, and I will be the last single child in my family soon. There’s still pressure on me from family and friends to find a man and settle. But though I have never married, I’ve had long-term relationships where I haven’t done right by me. So I think my future is about not blaming myself that I walked away from bad situations and inappropriate men. I could have stayed, but I didn’t. Thanks to BR! 🙂
It’s tough when society tells you that you need a man to be successful. And like this post says, the right decision doesn’t feel the best. We’re too used to the rom-com idea that as soon as we make the right decision, we will spend a week feeling bad, and then one day we’ll be drinking coffee in a bistro alone, and Mr. Unavailable will see us. He’ll realize what he had, and sweep us off our feet to go live in a rosy-colored future. Oh, I am about to burn all of my rom-com movies now…well, not all of them 😉
Stay strong!
Hi Story, society says a lot of things but it doesn’t make it right. We have to find our own way and have our mind, because ultimately what society has in mind for us isn’t always what fits with our own values, which are ultimately what makes us individual. Heart, body, mind, and soul matters – not some vague airy fairy thing of what people who you don’t actually give a rats about, think. When we pander to ‘society’ we go out like sheep with false and often deluded expectations. You have got to start listening to yourself, and it’s more important to be happy and to find a relationship that reflects healthy beliefs and values, than it is to find a man to appease friends and family who are only projecting their own security about how they see themselves onto you.
Story
on 09/12/2011 at 6:13 pm
Thank you, NML! That is exactly right. How true it is that people were projecting onto me, even more than my family wanting “the best for me” in their eyes….I’ve actually had guys I dated project their “fantasy woman image” onto me. If only, according to them, I was a little heavier(yes, really) or a little thinner, had black hair instead of brown, got a tan, etc. Oh, my. 🙁
Your “self esteem posts” have helped me more than you know. Thank you so much! I’m really working on listening to myself-hoping as I make the outward changes of positivity(not what people think I should be, but for myself)that the inward changes will come, too. I’d be glad to know any more posts you recommend in that area!
PS: I copied your reply and will look at it whenever I am tempted to cave!
francine
on 06/12/2011 at 2:57 pm
Natalie!! Do you sneakily hide in my living room watching what I am doing??? SO many of your posts resonate with me and yet again this hits the spot – I make decisions for all the right reasons, and find them hard to stick to, but this is going to help so much. My most recent decision, to go NC on a relationship with an unavailable assclown married future faker with whom i had an affair with for over five years, lasted four months, until some significant day in the calendar came up and I caved and texted him! Since I broke NC, he of course thinks its open season to keep in contact with me. And while I have never let that progress beyond texting… I know in my heart its still some contact, and I am no longer NC, which is what I really should be. So, I am going to do as you say and write the list of all the reasons I went NC in the first place… and work out why I am not sticking to it. Thanks Natalie…. you communicate so brilliantly. x
Yes do please do a list Francine – don’t let this man keep feeding you micro crumbs! x
d.
on 06/12/2011 at 2:59 pm
Thank you Natalie! All of your posts are right on time, it’s like you know exactly where I am with this “breakup.” This is the start of week 2 of NC. Quick reminder – The AC is out of town living/visiting his ex, who is probably his new girlfriend. He has not contacted me via text, email, phone, aluminum cans, telepathy, dreams, etc…LOL. And, I am ok!
However, yesterday I began to wonder about him and why he hasn’t tried to contact me. I began to feel bad that I didn’t mean much to him. Then, low and behold, he begins “liking” my Facebook posts. I didn’t respond to him. But, very soon, I plan to delete all emails, Facebook activity and any ounce of proof that he was ever a part of my life.
Your post forced me to critically realize what I’ve always done post-breakup –keeping souveiners from the relationship (letters, pics, social networking, etc) is counterproductive. I tend to place more effort in my attempts to “get over” the person and not enough emphasis on ME and moving on in my life to get to a place where I’m no longer concerned with the guy. So, I’m getting there…taking baby steps, but, I will without a doubt make that calendar of activities to get myself on track.
And, also, thank you to everyone sharing your stories on this site. I’ve read so many posts I can relate to and it gives me peace to know that I’m not alone. Stay strong, positive and away from people who are not good for you!
“Your post forced me to critically realize what I’ve always done post-breakup –keeping souveiners from the relationship (letters, pics, social networking, etc) is counterproductive.”
Well said d. I’d put the souvenirs away for now and focus on your own life. Life is going to happen and progress *anyway* so it’s best that you use the time well. You can make it about him or you can make it about you, but the latter option is what will enrich your life. The former option has you living in the past and tracking movements which only stagnates your own life.
Arlena
on 06/12/2011 at 4:55 pm
The other day I posted that I’d cut off a guy (LD, never involved with him, just “friends”) who confided in me that he started cheating on his wife (knowing it is not the decent thing, knowing that it is a deal break as they haven’t consented to an open marriage) and it felt as if he offloaded his guilt onto me instead of owning up his mess. I took this last information drop to end this crumb contact, felt relieved until I received his response.
Suddenly my stomach plummeted. My decision felt suddenly scary, my heart started racing and I felt upset. Why? I don’t dare reading his mail. That in itself tells me that I must have always been afraid of him of sorts (yeah, he can be very aggressive). Am I obliged to open and read his mail? I am not interested in him telling me lies, or excusing his behaviour, or threatening me with whatever as he surely don’t want me to tell his wife (which I won’t do). I just don’t care hearing from him again. The cut off was overdue – yet, suddenly I am aware of how much I am afraid of him though miles apart and never been engaged with him. – Maybe my father’s aggressiveness is haunting me again, a past ghost, whilst learning to stand up for myself risking a response that might be too much to handle?!
Hell, I started getting uncomfortable – I so crave my security blanket!!!
I know my decision to cut him off was the right thing to do – but it creeps me out. – Nat, thanks for this strengthener.
ixnay
on 07/12/2011 at 12:18 am
Delete the email without reading it. You owe him nothing, especially not a way into your mind and emotional body. There is nothing he could say that you want to hear, and lots he might say that will get your mind spinning and wanting to fire back a response. That just puts you back in the mess. You have excellent boundaries and morals. He is a liar. You are not interested in any more lies. Delete.
Arlena
on 08/12/2011 at 11:01 am
@ixnay
Thanks for backing me up. I needed some support and got him deleted. Heart rate normalised. Over the past year I have cut off every inappropriate contact even with shallow relatives, except one last with a very negative “friend” in utter denial, which I am afraid is also due next. I am no more a dumping site for negativity when they are in dire straits and unwilling to look after a good vent at themselves.
Send you a hug.
Alice
on 06/12/2011 at 5:19 pm
My friends,
this is the most honest message I’ve ever written. I come to this site every day because I feel that If I don’t come, I’ll lose my self control and text my ex. He is an EUM but as long as I keep thinking about him and secretly praying for a miracle on his part, I am also unavailable to other people and other relationships. I read your posts, my friends, every single day in order to find the courage to pass another day without him in my life. You don’t know me and I don’t know you but I feel like I know what you’ve been through. I KNOW your PAIN. I feel it every day. My ex, is not a bad person. He just don’t know how to love and how to commit. Now that I mention it, we are luckier than our exes. We know how to feel, how to love someone completely and they will never find out…I want to forgive him. I need to forgive him so that I can move on. Eventually. He disappears and all of a sudden appears again like nothing has happenned. He doesn’t answer to my texts but If he texts and I don’t answer he goes crazy. He is selfish and thinks that he is the center of the world. He treats me with no respect (2 years now) but I still think of him. So who’s fault is this? Mine or his?…Really, I need to forgive him because there will be no change in his behaviour. But I can change mine…
I can’t hide from you. There are days that I feel I can’t do it. I can’t go on knowing I’ll never see him again. His eyes, his hands or not hearing his voice that I used to love so much. But, fortunately, there is a part inside of me (maybe a small part of pride??) that keeps me from losing myself altogether. I have to face the reality that he’ll never be mine. He ‘ll NEVER be mine…..
Christmas is coming. And I know that I’ll have the urge to wish him “Merry Christmas”. I know that I’ll have my weak moments. I know that there’ll be days that my tears will fall without the ability to do anything about it. But I won’t contact him. Yes, Nat, sure, it’s the right decision. I know it, you all know it, even HE knows it. It hurts like hell. But you said that not every right decision feels good and I have to trust you. Like I always do. You are so far away (I live in Greece) but you’ve helped me like no one else in this situation. So, I’ll trust you again and I hope that in time, this pain will fade away and I’ll be the woman who respects herself and is respected by others as well…
Lia
on 06/12/2011 at 7:22 pm
This really is honest, it touched my heart. I’ve been there, and I can almost feel your pain through your words. It gets better with time, but some of the things you said concern me. On one hand you say “My ex, is not a bad person. He just don’t know how to love and how to commit.” But then later you said: “He disappears and all of a sudden appears again like nothing has happened. He doesn’t answer to my texts but If he texts and I don’t answer he goes crazy. He is selfish and thinks that he is the center of the world. He treats me with no respect (2 years now) but I still think of him.” I have never thought of someone who was disrespectful towards me as a good person, so I’m wondering why you would. I’m wondering why you still have him on this pedestal despite who he has shown himself to be. I don’t know him, so I can’t speak on his character, but you can. You’ve actually seen who he is. And while he might not be the scum of the earth, he is someone who has had little regard for you, your feelings, and your well being. Think about the last time you talked to him. Did you get the impression that by him reaching out he was genuinely concerned with how you were doing or how your life was going? Or was it just more of the same disappointment? When you think about picking up the phone and calling him, think about the energy that you’ll be burning on someone who doesn’t deserve it and how you could be either saving it for yourself, or utilizing it on someone else who would actually appreciate it for the right reasons. The pain that you’re feeling is probably pretty close to awful, but it’s helping you to find your inner strength. Be honest but go easy on yourself at the same time, as you won’t be able to truly forgive him until you can forgive yourself. Woman to woman, I have faith that you will get to that place where your self respect will never be compromised. Just have faith in yourself…
Stephanie
on 06/12/2011 at 7:36 pm
Oh my dear Alice, after reading your post it made me feel so sad, because I no exactly how you feel. I am someone who has always had a lot of pride and that is the only thing right now that has stopped me breaking NC. Every single day I think and fantasise about a guy who I believe is not really a bad person but simply a coward who is unable to commit or truly love. He is too used to his batchelor lifestyle and when things get heavy he backs off. I think about all the lovely text messages I used to get 2-4 times a day, the phone calls and the time we spent together. Every day I draft a text message to send to him asking “to just be friends” but deep down I know its not the right thing to do, which is why after 7 weeks I still haven’t sent it. Hun, I know its hard because I battle with it every day, everyone around me is perplexed as to how this has happened to me now and never before with anyone I’ve dated in the past. I think its because at 37 (with an 18 year old daughter) I decided that I want to meet someone and settle down, after making this decision I met him! On a well known dating website that matches you with so called compatible people! He future faked me and I fell for it hook, line and sinker and feel like such a fool. No matter how hard I try I just can’t be angry with him, even though he has just ignored me and given me no closure. It really sucks but I’m trying my best and somehow I know I’m gonna get through this. 🙁
Lynda from L
on 06/12/2011 at 10:26 pm
Alice, Alice your post moves me utterly because this is what it feels like completely when we are caught in this cage. It is a cage, with bars on both sides because as you describe…he goes absent and only cares when you do not respond, when you try to keep up communication he vacates again. It is the dance of the EUM/W’s.
I feel your brutal honesty and have felt what you are going through but to give into it…is to lose myself and I no longer want to do that.
You know when you said that you wanted to wish him Merry Christmas, well rather than get back in touch…what about one quite minute, when you are alone just wish everyone that you don’t see anymore a ‘Happy Christmas’. That can be people who have treated you badly or that you are seperated from/incompatible with etc. I do not wish anyone ill, I wish them insight. Then just move on from that quiet moment and enjoy the rest of your day. Take each day at a time just now .
Natalie
on 06/12/2011 at 11:27 pm
You said everything I couldn’t figure out how to say Alice. Thank you. I’m feeling the EXACT same pains and going through it. Lets get through this together, even if we’ve never met. This site has saved me, I’m on it every day as well. I think my boss knows it as well and is probably upset, but i dont care!!! 😉
Thank you to all of you, I feel humbled and greatful to know, i’m not alone. Physically i may be without him, he may be holding on to someone else, but he never made me as strong as I can make myself, and as you’ve all helped me to work to become.
ixnay
on 07/12/2011 at 12:22 am
lol baggage reclaim is blocked at my work, probably because someone before me spent lots of time on it.
dawn
on 07/12/2011 at 3:03 am
Hang in there Alice, you’re getting there. Don’t give up and don’t give in. Keeping proving to yourself that you love you, care for you and respect you! Focus on how much better your life really easy (yes, even with all the grief your going through right now , that’s normal, it’s ok and will ebb and flow until it ebbs more than it flows) You will reap the benefits in the long run. I know it hurts, I’ve been there, but there is an end to it, all the pain and misery, you can see it fading already. Trust me when I say it will end and you will find more and more peace as time goes by. I am speaking from experience. You will get to a point where you don’t mourn this loss as strongly. You will get to a point where you are living your life instead of just getting through it.
RuthT
on 06/12/2011 at 6:46 pm
Yep I totally agree, the REAL NC is the way to go. So funny how we kid ourselves that just because there is no exchange of words, even by looking and putting energy into the ACT of looking at the FB page we are breaking the more subtle forms of NC. Its probably a little different for each person the secret of recovery, to get to that momentos stage of ‘I dont even want you now even if you did show up, contact, etc’ My starting point was putting all photos of him into a Trips 2011 file so I couldn’t bump into them on computer accidently. As we were both into travel and photography this was actually one of the hardest things to do, this mental exercise of putting all the couply photos out of sight. The results were very satisfactory. It stopped the pain of nostalgia. I also filled up the diary with things to do. Starting a variety of new experiences. One of which is Ceroc dancing. Its great you get the physical contact that you miss as soon as a relationship ends and interaction with so many new friendly people. I started painting again, in a small way at first- one of the major affects I have is my creativity is blocked when grief moves in, so after a few weeks I arranged some research trips, photographing, doing little water colour sketching and dreaming of new horizons. I approached a few public venues to display my new work and got selected for the upper and lower galleries of the local Playhouse theatre in July. Well I can tell you humpty dumpty is getting put back together and I now have a wonderful new focus and a massive pile of canvases to complete! Its only 2 months NC and I am hardly out of the woods, it does take huge discipline, but fundamentally I wish to be in a better relationship, so that put a cross against the EUM I recently split with.
Anyone who needs a dose of girl power can play Beyonces Irreplacable very loudly. To the left to the left….your boxes are to the left…..so don’t you ever for a second get to thinking your irreplaceable!
Sisters these guys are replaceable. With much more suitable companions….I believe it, I just have to live it now.
Phoenics
on 06/12/2011 at 6:50 pm
I’m going through NC right now – but it wasn’t my choice… He initiated it so he could “get himself together” due to a bad breakup.
I KNOW this is best – because dating someone fresh out of a breakup is a bad idea… They are always EA. He’s not a bad guy – but right now he cannot see past his own pain and even though as a longtime friend of his I can honestly say that he deserves better than his ex, he might return to that relationship, even though he claims to have deep feelings for me that were there before this last relationship started.
Anyway – I was struggling to push for NC and instead, he pushed for it… well, a temporary one. I’m really struggling with that because I feel like an “option” and not the “main event”
I’m angry that he didn’t close the deal when we were both single. He went after someone else – the reasons don’t matter. And now I’m NC, but still in limbo.
I know NC is the right thing, but I cannot seem to get rid of this pain in my chest. I feel like the second I do, he’ll pop back up again and I’ll be right back where I started – but worse. Because deep down I know that he cannot or will not give me the relationship I want.
I know that I couldn’t have done anything to get him to pursue back when – but it still makes me angry. I know it’s not me – it’s him. I know he thinks highly of me (actually he has me on a pedestal)… and I know why he didn’t pursue before. But none of it makes me feel any better and I feel like even though NOW I’m doing NC, there is this “app” (thanks previous posters for that term!) that constantly runs in the back of my mind ruminating over what he’s going to do and if he’s ever going to decide to pursue.
And it’s that app that is keeping me STUCK. I’m trying to disconnect myself from “false hope” that he’ll come back all healed and then apologize for taking the wrong fork in the road when he didn’t pursue b4 & then actually do something about it. It’s just as likely (if not more) that he’ll come back with the news that he’s reconciled with his ex… or that he doesn’t want me still…
I hate that I’m allowing myself to think of myself as an option for him. What is WRONG with me?
dawn
on 07/12/2011 at 3:23 am
Your just caught in what I like to call the “what if” mode. Still wanting to believe some “mircale” will happen and the frog will magically turn into a prince and pick someone else and you will loose out yet again. That is NOT going to happen. Honestly these men don’t change. Don’t waste another second thinking he will. You are still emotionally attached to this guy, you need to sit down and write down the reasons why you aren’t in contact with him anymore to keep reminding yourself how right he really isn’t for you this will help to keep breaking this attachment you have in your mind. You want a healthy loving relationship with a emotionally healthy guy who is not attatched to anyone else, and is ready for a relationship. That desire doesn’t go away, in fact it gets even stronger when you have recently experienced a relationship with a guy who you did have loving feelings but who couldn’t deliver, for whatever reasons. You just have to give up on the fantasy that this guy is ever going to get to that point, it’s keeping you in the misery. Don’t do that to yourself. Stop and think and do what’s best for you, yes, even if it hurts. Because that hurt will give way to something way better, a feeling of accomplishing something that actually has a positive impact on your life. That’s how you get over the “what if” mode. Keep working on it, don’t give up and you will be free. Free of misery and open to healthier opportunities that will benefit you way more then being bogged down with betting on any potential. The guy just isn’t that special. Learned this all right here, so keep reading and listening and learning and applying.
Phoenics
on 07/12/2011 at 3:59 pm
Dawn,
Thank you for responding to me! You are right… I do need to sit down and write the reasons why NC is the best thing. I hope that will help me leave the “what if” phase I’m in. It almost feels cruel for him to tell me of all of these feelings he had before he eventually went after someone else (months later) – NOW when I cannot do anything about them. It’s like someone telling you you won the lottery, but oops – they shredded the ticket.
I’m trying really hard to explain to myself that he made a choice a year ago (didn’t know he was thinking this then – but we were friends then)… and that choice has led to this entire mess. It’s just hard. I keeping thinking “if only…”
It’s not helping I know. I just feel so hurt by it. And our friendship is ruined – how could I sit there smiling if/when he goes back to someone who lied to and betrayed him? And with the knowledge that he chose her (AGAIN) over me? WTH?!
I’m going to go make that NC list now. I’ll be glad when I’m over this.
stella
on 06/12/2011 at 7:51 pm
hello all. i just had to comment on the life saving, sanity saving importance of NC. i, too, didn’t think i could do it & it was one of the hardest things i had ever done & i did have some setbacks. HOWEVER – and thanks to natalie’s brilliance, i went NC almost 3 years ago. i blocked him on everything – more for my own heart – so i wouldn’t know if HE wasn’t contacting me…i know crazy. anyway, last night i got a text – went to check & it was from him-i have no idea why it came through-i need to check with good ol t-mobile. i have to admit i had to sit down & stare at the wall for a moment – but, here is the beauty – it was only for a moment. 2 years & 6 months later a text, “hope you are well.” i wanted to say, “listen plonker(i borrowed that from some lovely brit on this site – i just love that word – which i had never heard) i am well, now that you are not making me sick.” instead…delete and continued with my evening. if i can do it…anyone can. i was a serious mess. good luck & much love~ thanks, natalie, again for giving me my life back.
Lynda from L
on 06/12/2011 at 10:39 pm
Stella, yeah plonker is a great word,feel free to use ‘tosspot’ as well, at whim. They are interchangeable.!!!
Young&Natural
on 06/12/2011 at 8:23 pm
Hello everyone,
I’ve been reading BR for a long while now, probably for over 6 months, and this is my first time posting.
I’m 21, turning 22 in a few weeks. I feel like I’m the youngest person on here, but everyone was 21 at some point…
I’m at a weird, very confusing point in my life. Graduated from school some months ago, but was not prepared for grad school, so did a post-bac instead for a 2nd BA once I realized I wasn’t that interested in my 1st BA.
As far as men, I have had one male best friend for over 4 years now. We met first week of college. Very long story short, we developed strong feelings for each other, but at different times. He won’t say when he did, all he said is that he went through it on his own and eventually put things in perspective (meaning he made our friendship more important than his romantic feelings). However, when I went through realizing I was in love with him, I actually told him and we basically went through it together, only he had already resolved his feelings, unbeknownst to me (he also went through a hard break up with his HS sweetheart our 2nd yr in college). Either way, I didn’t want a relationship at all in college…until senior year…with him. By that point, we had already had sex, been playing house somewhat (I was always at his house where my other close friends were roommates, I had keys to his place, I came over whenever I wanted, etc). Basically, on the outside we looked like a couple, but we were not. I had no qualms with this UNTIL I was involved with another guy the summer before senior year who said he fell hard for me, but also changed my entire outlook on relationships. Suddenly, I was recognizing my love for my best friend. It was a long year, to put it briefly, as he didn’t want to be with me in fear of us not being friends if anything were to happen (however, in retrospect, he still was very jaded about relationships anyway due to his experience with his ex).
Currently, we are still best friends, still very close, no longer having sex with each other, but still intimate (we cuddle and sleep next to each other and kiss each other goodbye). It took me a long time to not want a relationship from him b/c this past summer, I realized our value systems are not that compatible. However, I am battling with whether I want a relationship just in general from any potential guy. Honestly,…
grace
on 07/12/2011 at 2:46 pm
Young
You are very young and the likelihood that … neither of these guys is the one. Yay – love is better than this!
When you are ready to meet the reason person, he won’t make you feel confused. You won’t be “friends but not friends but not a couple but sleeping together but not having sex”. He will be proud to call you his girlfriend and then his wife and, if you’re so inclined, the mother of his children.
Take some time out. Be single. Bouncing from one ambiguous relationship into another can burn up all your youth.
Sure, you can still find love and happiness when you’re older but – why not now?
Make a decision for yourself. Don’t just wait for a man to come up with the answer. It’s too much for the poor dears.
runnergirl
on 08/12/2011 at 2:30 am
Hi Young,
I think if I try, I can remember being 21-22. My daughter is your age and I’ve got all of Natalie’s books ready to go for her should she need them. I sure wish Natalie was there when I was 21-22, although I may have not been ready then. You have found a wonderful resource.
Your comment may indicate some red flags: “Basically, on the outside we looked like a couple, but we were not.” That could lead to future issues down the road. If you’ve read Natalie’s prior posts, FBG’s don’t frequently get upgraded to the main woman. FBG’s often end up an option, keys or no keys.
Your comment regarding the lack of shared values is really significant. For 30 some years, I thought common interests was the same as shared values. It isn’t. Natalie’s books really helped me to recognize the difference. You said: “It took me a long time to not want a relationship from him b/c this past summer, I realized our value systems are not that compatible.” The recognition of the lack of shared values is something to listen to.
He doesn’t want to be with you for fear of not being “friends”. Um, what the what now? You have such an opportunity here. Don’t leave your fate to some unavailable male. You can define your future. Always always always know, you deserve the best. When a guy is acting like he can’t commit, assuming you would like a committment, flush.
I’m learning at the old age of 52, love isn’t about being confused. If I’m confused, there’s a reason and it ain’t about love.
DeeDee
on 06/12/2011 at 8:36 pm
Its quite amazing, all of Natalie’s posts resonate with me.I feel like she’s somehow living in my head almost!hehe;) could’nt have said it better!I came across this blog awhile back, by chance and after my guy rejecting me countless times, treating me like an option, boomerang-in and out of my life…etc etc (I’ve had it all happen), finally after 2 years (yes, it took me awhile!:P), I’ve found the courage to leave my assclown/mr.unavailable! (my AC had all the traits that Natalie mentioned) he loved the ‘reset button’ and I just got tired of making excuses for his poor behaviour and shitty attitude towards me and our ‘relationship’ or lack thereof.
I’d just like to say THANKYOU to Natalie for the existence of this blog and also to all that have shared their stories. It really helps to know that I AM NOT ALONE! When I cut contact, I went ‘cold turkey’, no msgs, no explaination, no nothing. In the beginning when I first started NC, my AC would start sending me all these sweet text msgs, as if nothing ever happened, met with coldness, followed by 2 weeks later, a nice long message about how Christmas is around the corner and how my AC ‘misses me’ and that he’s been having a ‘tough time at work’ (exact words:P) Which of course, I did not respond to.
Natalie is absolutely right, the right decision, doesn’t always feel good….and reading these posts, have helped strengthen my decision! It’s a great reminder:) It’s only been NC for a month now, and I go to this site everyday! It is the only thing that keeps me sane;P…and has really helped me get through, day by day, and not make me want to turn back and make me want to talk to my ex. Yes, it still hurts like hell, but I’ll be alright.
lulu
on 06/12/2011 at 8:45 pm
Wow, where to begin..? After a year long, verbally and emotionally abusive relationship, I finally got fed up and left. One day I just blew up and went N/C. A few months went by, he sent apologetic emails, called me, all of which I ignored, then finally, he cornered me on the phone at work one day. I had felt like I was making some serious headway on my recovery, was gaining back my self esteem and was even starting to date a very kind and giving man who treated me like GOLD.
After the phone call from AC, I started to slip back into the trap. He kept messaging me, telling me he was going to counseling and wanted to “work things out with me” and slowly got his foot in the door; I was cold/indifferent to him at first, but my will power started to slip.. I started to feel distant towards the man I was dating, and I started to believe and fantasize that the AC really wanted me back and could seriously change his angry, abusive ways. (hmmmm..talk about living in a fantasy world…) After countless text messages and emails from AC, stating things like: “If you need anything, I’m here for you”, “I really miss you and want you in my life, even as a friend” etc., I broke down one day and contacted him and we met up for coffee.
He looked amazing, had obviously been working out and was telling me about all the dates he had gone on recently. I was a basket case; crying and a wreck. I gave him a hug and kiss that day before I left and it felt so good and I was hooked again…that evening, I send him a message saying how nice it was to see him and how it felt good to kiss him..in return, he point blank tells me that the kiss I gave him felt “cold and emotion less”, that he is focused on his counseling and doesn’t want anyone else “pulling” at him, because he is determined to “get better”, and that he wants nothing to do with me… showing no emotion at all. I went off the deep end and started trying to win him back again, and basically stalking him. He just ignored me or started raging on me again and told me not to contact him again (the opposite of what he had said just a week before..) I believe he pursued me strongly just to pull me in again so that he could ultimately hurt and punish me and have the ‘last rejection” in this sick co-dependent game we played.
I realize I have an addiction that I cannot control. I found a Love Addicts Anon. group and am attending weekly group meetings so I can stop this addiction and pain. This AC is toxic and poisonous to me. I am co-dependent and I have to focus on changing myself, not him. Ladies, please find a support group if you need help, it has been a god send to me. I am still having obsessive thoughts and pray that I will stay strong and conquer this addiction. And it all started when I broke the N/C by responding to him. Be strong and keep up the N/C; it’s for your own sanity and well being!
Lynda from L
on 06/12/2011 at 10:36 pm
This was a very dangerous man and I applaud you for your action in the face of it. A man like that is a power hound, the sex is incidental and I actually shudder, am shuddering at your description of him. The absolute minute you are hooked…it changes for him. He has your scalp on his belt and rides on.
It’s a pity about the guy who treated you like gold but from what you describe you are in a better prideful place now,Lulu. You sought help, gained and are gaining insight and have survived. I am glad for you, stay wise.
ixnay
on 07/12/2011 at 12:42 am
Lulu,
that is so manipulative and terrible. I just went through something similar. I totally got sucked in. Now he’s “really busy” — as if I had pursued him. I was NC but this felt different, he was going to go to therapy etc. There is something really wrong with these people. It’s beyond fear of commitment; it’s sadistic.
Michele
on 06/12/2011 at 10:00 pm
What a great post that applies to so many areas in our lives! Why is it I don’t do I always do the things that I should? Weight loss is a fabulous analogy. My mind knows doing what is right is not always easy but something else often kicks in. Ugh@!
Clarissa
on 06/12/2011 at 11:10 pm
This is absolutely the right post at the right time for me.
I have been thinking about NC a lot and feel ready to do it now. I have been wary of starting too soon, because I did it before – 6 weeks – and then caved when he turned up in person. It was agonisingly painful and miserable, I was incapacitated with grief and anxiety at the thought of never seeing him again.
But of course nothing had changed, he is still a MM (although his marriage is collapsing round his ears but that doesn’t make him any more available) with all the crap that goes along with that. There is an arrangement in place to meet next week but he hasn’t been in touch for a few days to finalise, hope he doesn’t and if he doesn’t I won’t either. If he does, I will either tell him it’s off and am going NC, or just ignore him; he knows everything anyway, there is no point in going into reasons. The thing is I feel I will keep it up this time, I don’t have him on such a pedestal as I did before, I can see now that really he isn’t anything special, he has superficial characteristics that are appealing such as looks, charm, worldly success in the arts, etc but on a one to one basis I no longer feel that we did have such a great connection after all. Plus he is quite vain.
What an idiot I have been, I have allowed this to dominate my thoughts for months, ruminated, obsessed and worried away. Someone referred to OW as bottom feeders, Ouch. I need to get really really busy with worthwhile things. There are few aspects of my life that haven’t been neglected while I brooded over this crap.
josie
on 07/12/2011 at 12:29 am
Ladies,
deciding that a relationship is over, not right for you, or whatever is one decision that took me ages to get behind. I finally got behind it by deciding my ex had died, not in fact true, but once I made the decision that in my mine he was no longer in this world, then of course I found that I no longer wanted to talk to him, texts from him just seemed, well goulish. I know that he will text me a few weeks when he suddenly thinks of me, or he will call on his way home from somewhere, but I am never speaking to him again because as far as I am concerned he no longer exists.
It sounds harsh to pretend to yourself that someone is actually dead, but to be honest its just the admission that the relationship really has no ability to move into the future.
I find I am no longer thinking much about him from day to day. Because I no longer speak to him, I no longer get the updates about his life keeping me hooked in. Its bliss to be in my own life and to be focusing on me. Get behind NC and get your life back.
Used
on 08/12/2011 at 10:51 pm
excellent way to look at the situation.
b/c he might as well be…dead.
CrumbsNoMore
on 07/12/2011 at 4:38 am
I’ve had a setback with the NC thing. It’s been tricky since we work on the same floor. I’ve seen bumped into him the break rooms, and halls on a few occasions lately and each time we end up talking about non work stuff, how are things, sports, etc. and then I start daydreaming again how nice it was, how good he looks, how sweet he was, never mind all the crap he’s put me through, that I allowed him to put me through in the past. My mind starts building sandcastles, maybe he will wake up and come after me. Treat me right this time, things will be great. And then I go home and the phone hasn’t rung. And no more texts or emails (since I told him I wanted more than that and asked him why he would text but didn’t seem to want more than that). I feel sad and stupid. And wonder what’s wrong with me and why I’ve had such poor taste. How to get off this merry go round? Changing jobs is not an option at least right now. I need and like it my job. I just need to somehow ignore him as much as possible without being a witch. Trying to save myself from myself. Anyone found a way to move on who was in a similar situation? Please advise.
Blue skies & sunshine
on 07/12/2011 at 8:06 pm
Crumbs
I am in the same situation – I work in the same building as my exEUM – it’s horrible, I see him every day. In fact I swear I see him more frequently than when we were together! And each time it feels like a kick in the stomach.
The best and only way I can manage it is to get super serious about NC. I don’t speak to him. I don’t acknowledge him. If our eyes meet I look away. If we pass in the hall I square my shoulders and look right through him, if I see him in the cafeteria I sit with my back to him.
It sounds (and feels) so extreme, but this man treated me so badly, and I let him! And now I have to fight for ME.
And today I am celebrating 30 days NC! And on every one of those days I have filled the hole that he left with another little piece of insight or perspective. Believe me, the trade-off is worth it.
CrumbsNoMore
on 08/12/2011 at 2:44 am
Blue skies,
Thanks for responding & sharing your experiences. Congratulations on 30 days NC!! 🙂 Good to hear it can be done. I’m in the same situation.Thank you for sharing your tips, I will use them. And I will do it without guilt. I’m tired of caring about his feelings & being worried that if I completely ignore him I will be acting un-Christian. Jesus wants me to heal emotionally. The ex EUM does not deserve my friendship or my love. He played games with my heart for months, lied to & about me. Bottom line he liked me for the attention I gave him, nothing more. I was & am not special to him, he’s demonstrated that time after time. My eyes water as I write this b/c I’m loved him, the him I knew when he wasn’t acting like a jerk. But it isn’t healthy for me to keep acting out any care or concern for him. I know in time w/true NC my feelings will fade. I choose me. I will start fighting for ME. I deserve to be healthy emotionally again. There are so many wonderful, kind, giving, NORMAL people out there, I’m not wasting any more time on him.
Blue skies & sunshine
on 08/12/2011 at 8:14 am
If it helps you to feel less guilty, I think of it like this: when he wasn’t sure he wanted me in his life he communicated it to me by withdrawing, being cold, distant and ambiguous. It was heartbreaking. By doing it this way (although it may initially feel rude or mean) you are actually being clear, open and upfront about what you want and need. No ambiguity.
All the things we wish they’d been with us, right?
You can do it. You can!
Happy Girl
on 07/12/2011 at 6:05 am
Whenever I think about contacting my ex, I think about some if his last words to me. “It’s like it was there, and then it was gone. And mostly it was me. But a lot of it is just the way I am”. Took me a good 6 months to admit that “the way he is” means he just didn’t care anymore. Not that he was some helpless twit who couldn’t understand his feelings and that at some point I could make them come back or make him “better.” The urges finally stopped when I thought about how being with him would mean never, ever really being myself. I can call him a coward for the way he treated me, but at least I know I’m not one for sticking with my decision.
Karen
on 07/12/2011 at 9:11 am
‘He is being tactical to break down your defences to get you to ‘open the door’. He doesn’t want you; he just wants to win’
This whole post again relates to me but I was doing so well the first time I did no contact, I went almost 3 months although I admit that after a while I did start thinking, again, that it was all my fault, that I misunderstood him etc and should have been more thoughtfull, patient etc so when he did eventually start making contact I eventually caved and faster than the speed of light I was fantasising ~ oh how fabulous is this, he does want me, we’re gonna get married, we’re such a special couple etc etc etc but I then very quickly found out, he didn’t want me, he just wanted to know that I still wanted him and the day after our last meeting he hooked up with another woman and I was devastated, I found out about it by reading his emails and when I asked him about it he point blank denied it and I even begged him not to leave me even though it was me who ended things initially because the situation had become so unbearable, I was taking medications etc anyway, I have to get over that now, that he just roped me back in big time so he could be back in control but the good thing is, this time there are NO doubts as to my decision to go no contact, for good, it is hard some days, in fact excruciatingly painful but this lady is not for turning but I realised after reading this post that I have to stop the constant checking my phone to see if he’s called. I’m still living in the house we shared which is still in his name but I dont even have to speak to him to sort that out, it can be done via text and email. This is the start of week 3 today and my new resolve now is to stop checking my phone and stop listening to that voice in my head that says ‘why hasn’t he phoned’. I know there’s a previous post about that so I’m going to read that again and let him have the last word, what ever, it doesn’t matter, what matters is I’m growing stronger, I’m learning, I’m giving myself a couple of years from men and the next man I get involved with will not be another AC/EUM which he, will most likely always be. Also in reply to some of you ladies who said ‘he’s not a bad guy, just can’t live etc’ I fell for that one, if he can’t love, and knows it, as they do then they ARE bad guys for ever getting involved in a relationship, it’s…
Fedup
on 07/12/2011 at 12:24 pm
Josie- I don’t think seeing the ex is dead a bad thing! I’ve always thought if it like that. I know it’s highly unlikely I’ll ever talk or see the ex ever again. No different to when someone dies. There’s no reconciliation, no second chance.
Jasmine
on 07/12/2011 at 3:46 pm
It’s hard when someone just ducks out on you and you never see them again. You weren’t the one who actually made the decision to end it. It’s true that I no longer want to be with him. At the moment I only knew, he is unhappy but has made it all about me. He had only been going through the motions, telling and doing the things to keep things going. I knew I couldn’t be with him as he was, where he kept secrets, was judgmental, and would always tear me down to explain his unhappiness…. But I also didn’t make the choice.
Afterwards I went NC, because I still loved him, and only a couple of weeks later he was already dating, while telling our friends he had made the biggest mistake of his life and was going to explain everything. I knew it was just another charade, because his friends opinions of him weren’t very favorable after how he’d led me on. He never contacted me outside of texts and IMs which don’t mean anything and I ignored.
All of these choices were initially very defensive. The only decision I made was not to grovel and try to get him back by getting him to explain what was going on with him, or listen to any of his explanations which I suspected would be more of the same, that it was because of me just stated a little. Ore politically correct than “I’m unhappy and can’t marry you because you don’t cycle. Btw you are the best thing that ever happened to me”.
I just couldn’t stand it. But the initial break wasn’t my choice, so I had to spend time building a case for why I didn’t want to be with him. It was tough going, and the insights on BR and therapy cause me to revisit, if only to see with new eyes and say “ah ha that was un healthy behavior too”.
Jasmine
on 07/12/2011 at 3:52 pm
It’s hard when someone just ducks out on you and you never see them again. You weren’t the one who actually made the decision to end it. It’s true that I no longer want to be with him. At the moment I only knew, he is unhappy but has made it all about me. He had only been going through the motions, telling and doing the things to keep things going. I knew I couldn’t be with him as he was, where he kept secrets, was judgmental, and would always tear me down to explain his unhappiness…. But I also didn’t make the choice.
Afterwards I went NC, because I still loved him, and only a couple of weeks later he was already dating, while making a show of telling our friends he had made the biggest mistake of his life and was going to explain everything to me. I knew it was just another charade, because his friends opinions of him weren’t very favorable after how he’d handled the whole thing. He never contacted me outside of texts and IMs, emails which don’t mean anything and I ignored.
All of these choices were initially very defensive. The only decision I made was not to grovel and try to get him back by getting him to explain what was going on with him, or listen to any of his explanations which I suspected would be more of the same, that it was because of me just stated a little more politically correct than “I’m unhappy and can’t marry you because you don’t cycle. Btw you are the best thing that ever happened to me”.
I just couldn’t stand it. But the initial break wasn’t my choice, so I had to spend time building a case for why I didn’t want to be with him. It was tough going, and the insights on BR and therapy cause me to revisit, if only to see with new eyes and say “ah ha that was unhealthy behavior too”. Somedays, I felt like I was just trying to convince myself I didn’t want a relationship with him because I had no choice anyway, which is disempowering.
brokenhearted in LA
on 07/12/2011 at 7:49 pm
As usual, Natalie, you f***ing nailed it!
I’ve been doing so great, I’ve now been NC for 3 whole months! But last night I had a disappointing outing with a girlfriend and a tad too much to drink and there I was, jonesing and thinking bullshit about driving by, even contacting him, yiiiiikes!!!!!!!!!!!
Like you say in your post, I started romanticizing “the fun we used to have” and magically all the misery was erased. How “it’s so hard to find someone whose humor and sensibilities click so well with mine”, etc. How the fuck does that matter if they’re fucking cheating douchebags that won’t really commit???? Stay the course and say NO to douchebaggery (talking to myself here)!!!
It’s like we fall into some sort of a daze, and it’s dangerous because it could make us eventually go back into the same quicksand and back we go with them. NO MORE, THIS GIRL IS D-O-N-E. Of course I need your support, strength and experience to keep going forward, so thank you Natalie and all of you guys for that…
Stephanie
on 07/12/2011 at 8:24 pm
I just want to agree with all you ladies that find NC hard, especially Jasmine, because also it was not my decision to go NC it was his and I had no choice but to go NC as well. Most people have said to me that I’ve had a lucky escape but why the hell does it hurt so much and why can’t I get over him and move on! I check this site everyday looking for answers and reasons why I need to continue. A few weeks ago I struggled to get out of bed in the morning, I’ve moved on from that but he still pops into my head and takes up space there. I try to keep myself busy at work and after work but I all my friends have their own life (either married, attached or have young children) so this is the only place I can come to right now. Will this ever end? I am fed up with thinking about why he left me when I just can’t see what I done wrong. Am I going crazy? Is this normal? I don’t check the FB anymore but I just can’t get him out of my head! 🙁
Fearless
on 08/12/2011 at 12:52 am
Stephanie,
If it helps – I have felt as you do now at least four times in my life – and know what? I don’t give a shit about any of those guys now – they never enter my head. One of them, let’s say for saying’s sake, making up a name here – was called Neil. I am still trundling my way through ‘getting over’ the most recent ex but I know from experience that in time he will just be another Neil (and that’s what I say to myself – and I know it’ll be true – except that I will dislike him more than the others cos he is entirely dislike-able! And some of the others were not).
Time and distance. It won’t always be like this. You won’t always care about him. He is in your present – but at one point he will begin to fall into your past. Just let it happen.
yoghurt
on 09/12/2011 at 10:09 pm
That’s an ace way of looking at it.
Just out of interest, after I read it, I went and fb-stalked the guy who, when I was eighteen, practically gave me a nervous breakdown when he went off with someone else (after rummaging around in my brain for his surname). His profile doesn’t reveal much but there’s a clear good picture of him there and when I looked at it I felt… nothing. Nothing at all.
Looking back, I can see, as well, that my reaction at the time was about SO much more than him – I barely knew him – it was about me and where I was at and the issues that I had at the time. He was just the coat-hook that I hung them all on.
In further good news, he now apparently lives in the Middle East so I won’t EVER have to meet him again…
CHICA8
on 08/12/2011 at 3:55 am
Stephanie, I promise you…it does get better. That panicky feeling goes away as long as you fight through it and don’t self-sabotage (check in on him, look at FB, etc.) I am 3+ months NC and I am telling you, although NC was my choice, this has been the hardest thing I’ve ever done. One major blessing of putting the focus back on myself has been in meeting new people and making new friends. If your current friends aren’t in the same place as you (single), get out there and find some new friends! Take a class, go for a walk, do things that interest you and keep your eyes open…you WILL meet like-minded people if you are open to it. Also, when you feel weak and shaky, just trust in the information you read in this blog. Trust the thousands of women who have come before you here seeking answers. Trust in yourself and your future that this will get better. I didn’t believe it myself but I feel a thousand times better now than I did a few months ago. Feeling good/strong/happy/healthy again sort of creeps up on you, and I am far from 100%, but I am getting there and you will too. Hang in there girl, you are on your way to a much better life!
yoshizzle
on 10/12/2011 at 8:18 am
i would say this: you aren’t with him. and yet, you are still alive. perhaps you have a pet, or a friend, that is super glad you exist. And so, not only are you alive, but you have someone that loves you. So, you are alive, and you are loveable, and you have love to give. So, WHAT DO YOU NEED *HIM* FOR?! the rest is all mind-tricks. stop thinking about the past and the future for a second…are you here? you ok? breathing? Ok! proof you don’t need this guy. The next step i found came around a couple months of TOTAL NC…is, you feel really great for sticking to NC. Self respect comes back…and self esteem…and then..new things. new people. and then you arent thinking about him at all. and then when you DO…you think: WhAT THE HELL did i want with THAT dude?!?! and it gets better and better. When a thought about him comes up (and with it, an emotion) just remind yourself: that’s just the mind doing it’s thing. It doesnt MEAN anything.
plumies
on 07/12/2011 at 8:31 pm
this is perfect for me. My ex contacted my yesterday becasue i didn’t call him for his Bday, we started talking about our past i let him know that i am in a peaceful place in my life and i forgave him for what he did a year ago.( cheaten ) . i decide to take one day at a time he want to be friend i don’t love him any more . everytime i look inside of my heart to if there is a possibility is nothing there . he is very unhappy i been very clear with him that i don;t want to be with him. do you think i risking my emotions.
grace
on 08/12/2011 at 2:24 pm
plumies
No friends, no no! It’s good that the hurt has gone but being friends will hinder your future.
Say you meet a new guy. He asks who it is that’s just texted you/called you/ met up with you. You say “an ex, it’s okay we’re just friends”. new guys says “Why did you break up?” You say, “he cheated”. Is new guy going to think:
Plumies is a cool girl OR
Plumies has no self-respect.
Even if you wish to disregard the opinions of future men, ask yourself seriously why, of all the people in the world, you want to keep this ex in your life. Is it really worth it.
And I think dozens and dozens of us have fallen off the “just friends” precipice into the pit of “friends but not friends, but not a couple, who sometimes have sex, blah blah blah”.
Yes. you’re risking your emotions. It’s up to you if you think it’s worth the risk. You know my position!
Allison
on 08/12/2011 at 6:48 pm
I agree!!!
Also, friends do not treat one another in this manner.
I would go NC!
Complicated
on 07/12/2011 at 9:00 pm
“We do have to opt out of certain things and behaviours sometimes, just like we also have to exhibit some self-control and look at the medium to long-term picture. ” – Nat, I’m trying to keep this in mind today especially.
I have the worst urge to send him a text today. It’s been 10 days NC for me. First time in 4 years! I want to say “Hey. I miss you. I hate not communicating.” But, I’m asking myself…What would I get out of doing this? Would it make any difference in the way I feel? Would he even reply? Would he just get scared and run off more? That’s what he does best anyways. I miss him and our bantering so much. I woke up this morning and thought “Oh, I can’t wait to tell him about X.” Then I realized, I can’t do this, it would be like putting my healing hand back into the fire. Plus, I’m the one who went NC to stop the communications. It is like someone died and I think of things I want to share with them, then I realize, they’re no longer around to communicate with. So, I’m on BR writing out what I wanted to text. At least it gets the thoughts out of my head and my fingers can just pretend I hit the ‘send’ button when it was actually the BR ‘submit’ button that I hit. My heart is racing a mile a minute and I’m trying to breathe deeply and think logically.
Fearless
on 08/12/2011 at 1:08 am
Comp,
when I felt like that I just kept reminding myself that I was pining after a CRUMB – just a crumb (while other women around me were enjoying the full benefits of a decent mutual relationship / marriage and that it’s way past time I thought much more of myself than that – as these other women did about themselves.) Really, he is not that special and really, you are not that desperate.
Happy Girl
on 07/12/2011 at 9:04 pm
Jasmine, your post really got me. I was in the same boat. If I had bowed down to his passive agressive actions ( refusing to get me off his phone plan, not coming to pick up a computer he didn’t want me to get rid of), I probably would have been fed a bunch of stuff, too. But I refused to take anything less than an honedt, voluntary, sincere conversation, and it never came. It might not have my lone decision to end it, but it was definitely my decision to stop taking half assessing crap.
Karen
on 07/12/2011 at 9:35 pm
Hey
I was out shopping today and saw something the AC wants and as it was only a pound I bought it and he can have it when he comes to pick up his clothes etc ~ I thought this was ok until my mind very sneakily started thinking there could still be a chance for us ~ oh boy, did I have to pull myself up sharp, I have had nearly 6 years of misery with this manipulative AC/EUM and I’m not wasting any more time on him, I reminded myself how he realed me back in big time after I ended things with him and went NC then, as soon as he got my attention he dropped me from a great height to then move onto his next victim or maybe he’s a changed man or maybe she will accept and settle for crumbs but either way buying the thing for him turned out to be very dangerous but I managed to pull it back before it totally wrecked my head and yes, I agree with whoever said it that these men are beyond committment phobic, they really are something else but definitely NOT that special. Thank you BR and all who share here x
Allison
on 08/12/2011 at 6:30 am
Karen,
Please remember that by returning to these people or hoping that they will change, also make us commitment phobes.
When I recognized my participation in these relationships, the changes began to happen.
Focus on you!
Karen
on 08/12/2011 at 9:39 pm
Thank you Allison, and I really am trying to focus on me and even though at some points on some days or most days I feel like I’m not getting anywhere I know that I am actually getting to a place that is by far the best place I’ve ever been in and one day I do want to commit to a kind, decent loving caring person and I recognize, at least, that I am no where ready for that yet but in the mean time I will not go back to that utterly cruel and loveless AC, I am not leaving the gift for him, I am giving it to my Dad, that AC (can’t bring myself round to calling him a man because I don’t believe he is one) can go to hell – I’ve started now to do something different, everytime I realise I am thinking about him, I say to myself, out loud -STOP- and I put the thoughts in a bin in my mind because thats what the thoughts are, trash and even though it feels hard some times, its definitely getting easier and its 100 times better than when I was with him so with the help of you ladies I have no doubt that I will get through this and come out stronger than I’ve ever been.
Intotouch
on 07/12/2011 at 10:25 pm
Hello,
My current problem with doing the right thing is around dating. And in this case doing the right thing doesn’t feel right at all. Not yet at least.
I’m trying to change my MO as you suggested to us to do. So… A man asked me out. I went out with him. I felt no particular attraction to him but he seems friendly and kind. I’m wondering how long to give this man to grow on me. That old lust mixed with longing brought me misery. So I want to try this gradual attraction building dating and hope that it works.
The last man was an EUM and I fancied him half to death. From almost the first night that I met him. Not calling him was like quitting heroin after I dumped him. So I’m trying to change my dating habits. But currently the thought of this new mans tongue in my mouth is not enticing. It’s bordering on repellent. And he wants to kiss me. A peck on the cheek won’t do much longer. We’ve gone out three times. I don’t fancy him yet. He’s pleasant and he likes me so I’m really hoping that I will.
I’m going to see him again but part of me is wondering if I am just torturing him by giving him hope. Another part still thinks he will hopefully grow on me and I should try dating new types of men. This is hard. On the next date my plan is to get drunk (I don’t like drinking much either) and to just do it. Snog him and see. Is it supposed to be this hard?
If I don’t fancy him and he’s a good man who likes me does this mean that I still don’t like me enough? Or does it mean that he doesn’t do it for me and another nice man will. Does having good self esteem mean fancying every decent man?
How will I know how long to give a new man to see if I can fancy him?
By the way I think that Jane Fonda is a great example of a woman who went from loving assclowns to decent men. From what I read about her.
Josie,
I like your idea of pretending he’s dead. If it works then brilliant. To stop procrastinating I make myself do nothing but that one task I have been putting off during one whole day. The mind is a weird thing in some ways.
Lulu,
it’s much easier to swap one obsession with another than simply not to think about him. I went mad into yoga after breaking up with a man I loved for seven years and it forced me to think in the moment and concentrate on what I was doing for long periods. I became obsessed, doing it for an hour…
SaraK
on 07/12/2011 at 10:54 pm
Intotouch:
“On the next date my plan is to get drunk (I don’t like drinking much either) and to just do it.”
It’s never a good idea to get drunk and proceed to have intimate relations with someone about whom you are uncertain. After 3 dates, you don’t know how you feel, or how he feels, either. What makes you so sure that he isn’t future faking, planning to go cold or whatever? He seems to be pushing you: “won’t do much longer”
Your accelerated dating schedule is dangerous. You have plenty of time to find out if you fancy him. If it turns out that you do not, you may politely decline his advances and walk away.
You can then analyze if the “good man” is what made him “repellant” without investing anything significant.
Good luck!
runnergirl
on 08/12/2011 at 4:15 am
Hi Intouch,
Your topic sentence is important: “My current problem with doing the right thing is around dating. And in this case doing the right thing doesn’t feel right at all. Not yet at least.” Listen to what you are saying, it doesn’t feel right. It may not be right to be dating. I’m with you all the way with regards to giving a decent guy a chance. But for me, I wouldn’t get drunk and snog him to see if there’s a chance of what?. I hope for your sake you won’t do that. It may feel really shitty in the morning and if he is a really good guy, you may have pulled a EUW card. In any event, your description made me feel sad for you and for the guy you’d get drunk and snog, even if he’s a jerk. Thank you for your honest comments. I’m going to have to get out of my house at some point. I may be starting to trust myself. Are you?
Allison
on 08/12/2011 at 6:35 am
You’re not being fair to him or yourself. Why force this?
A nice guy will come along, no need to push something you don’t want.
Karen
on 08/12/2011 at 9:53 pm
I agree with Allison, Intotouch, don’t push it, I went on a date before this period of NC and I quite clearly wasn’t ready and it was more obvious to the guy than it was me and now I know for sure I’m not ready, I’m actually giving myself a couple of years and I believe that once I’m ready to be in the type of relationship I want, then I will meet somebody and I’m sure you will too. We can’t push or control these things but we can make sure we’re ready. Stay strong, thanks for sharing. x
wow, i can really appreciate your honesty into touch. I’ll be honest with you in return. So that i disconnected from my emotional link from my ex I knew exactly what i had to do, because it was what he kept coming back for and you don’t need to date to do that, in fact every single man on a friday night or saturday will be happy to help you out, as i found. Obviously only needed the one for a few minutes and it worked, because i wasn’t after a date with the burger man, neither was he. I just wanted to remove my emotional connection and memory association with my ex as that was his control over me. That loyalty that you keep for the relationships is what keeps us going back. It took me 1.6 years to do it and i didn’t feel amazing afterwards, just OK that I was allowed I gave myself the permission to. Now Dating is much better to take them as they are without having a comparison of an ex that I moved on from. I’m not saying go and have a one night stand, just saying what worked for me…. Nothing wrong with a little Sex in the City. You don’t have to date guys you don’t fancy either. Just befriend them, and date more than one definitely, until you find one that wants you, as much as you want them. xxx
A
on 07/12/2011 at 11:40 pm
“But currently the thought of this new mans tongue in my mouth is not enticing. It’s bordering on repellent”
This isn’t how it’s supposed to be. Please don’t go out and get drunk to force yourself to kiss this man. I suggest that you tell him that you don’t see things progressing and cancel your updating date. You’re not going to be attracted to every “nice” guy out there, and you don’t need to force it. You will find a good man who you actually like and are excited about kissing–it may not feel like fireworks the first time you meet him, but you should feel *something* (and that something should not be repulsion!)
Jaydee
on 08/12/2011 at 3:46 am
Sigh. I really, really needed this today. No contact for 5 months and the last week overwhelming urge to contact him. I just can’t. It wouldn’t achieve anything, apart from opening up still fresh wounds which are taking their time on healing. It won’t change anything.
Our history is that we were falling in love 20 years ago. He asked me to move in with him and I said no. Part of it was that we lived in different states, my job, he was still recovering from divorce. My big reason was that he said was that marriage and all that entailed was not on the table. I as a 23 year old believed him, and I walked. We didn’t ever fight or argue, or have the chance to get together to talk about it, and due to my job circumstances we didn’t get to see each other again.
Fast forward 20 years and I contacted him. Both divorced with kids and single. He flew up immediately and we spent the next week together. Magic. Feelings from both of us were as amazingly as strong as when we were together, we both talked how much we wanted to be together, how he would be here in a heartbeat if he could, but, given both of us have kids, businesses/house, and again still in different states, it has proved impossible. Throw in some yellow flags which I listened to (both EU) and I find myself in exactly the same position as twenty years ago. Older, wiser maybe, but still the same.
I know it was the right decision to go no contact, but damn it is hard.
Outergirl
on 15/12/2011 at 5:36 pm
Hi Jaydee,
I am still recovering from my NC of a year ago, more or less [some sporadic mixed messages from him]. Like you, this was someone I crushed on from 20 years ago. I really did carry a torch all these years only to find he didn’t. No one else made me feel the way he could and yet, after 20 years, he didn’t realize ‘his mistake’ and see me as ‘the one that got away’ [as I assumed he would, after all, he looked me up when his marriage was on the rocks – live and learn].
So this good-bye hurts like no other, because of our history. I think he needed to feel good about himself once again and he sure knew who could do that. Now he [and your] ex can face the reality of their lives alone; without their fan club and cheerleaders. But I still feel very hurt.
Jaydee
on 16/12/2011 at 8:21 pm
Thanks outer girl, I hear you when you say it hurts like no other, and i am so sorry that you have had this experience too. Nothing has ever been this painful before. In spite of the pain, I am so grateful I had the experience of reuniting with him for the short time we had. For me, it has also allowed me to examine my life and choices/mistakes I made over the last 20 years, especially those ones I made before/after I split with him the first time. It does not take away the fact that feelings were involved from both of us, whether it lasted for 2 days, 2 weeks, or 20 years.
I carried him in my heart, part of him will always be there, however, I refuse to spend the next 20 years, 20 days or 20 minutes wishing, hoping, grieving, either consciously or unconsciously, for a different ending. I did that already.
It didn’t work out for whatever reasons, painful yes, but hopefully now I can finally let go, REALLY let go, take the love and lessons learnt, and move on. I hope you can too.
Outergirl
on 20/12/2011 at 6:07 pm
Thank you for sharing that Jaydee and I am really going to apply how you felt the experience left you and try to incorporate some of that. Yes, I guess I can’t reconcile that I really don’t regret re-connecting with him and the time we had and the positive [although painful] changes and truths about myself and my relationships that I must confront.
Renka
on 08/12/2011 at 8:27 am
Resisting ice cream and resisting the urge for human connection aren’t exactly the same. I agree that often it looks that way, but on a neurological level, the brain of someone trying to get over a failed relationship, (even an imaginary one) is different than the brain being denied ice cream. Dopomine, oxytocin, and serotonin levels…adrenaline rush, these are the biochemical reasons its so hard for many people to let certain relationships go. Once the psychology and physiology behind what’s going on with relationship withdrawal clicks in someone’s brain, its possible to find the power to let a bad relationship go and see the patterns in our behavior that kept us going back. Or looking for someone just like the last guy. Reading your posts, while I was reading Helen Fisher’s books did it for me.
I love the way you think, NML. You tell it like it is. Thank you!
I’d add that with all of the NC i did or that happened in between us having contact and hook ups and all that jazz and arguing over child contact disputes and well he’d do anything to stay in contact not to have me as I wanted to be, yet so that he could have a damn good go at trying to make me wrong, crazy, over sensitive or what ever… I just wanted more than he did. I was straight up and he turned out to be a jerk who was only after his own ends. I did make him a God, and it hurt like heck more than i’ve ever hurt before in my whole life and yeah i understand the withdrawal symptoms like the lady said like heroin lol, i’d say its worse to start with. Yet when you get clear on what you want and make your self a priority, Kids have that effect anyway, then you generally won’t tolerate the CRAP. Yeah you spend ages defending your position and questioning am i right, no he is, nope… i’m right… read god knows how much on relationships from the experts and see that there are billions of different types of these assholes out there all pissing on really lovely women…
We learnt to be subservient… HA…. i’m laughing right now because of the conversation i had with him on the phone last night when i told him exactly what i’m wanting and will get from my life. The committed loving man.
He was like and actually said (idiot) you’ll have to be a lot more subservient for me and you won’t get this without that… LMAO…
As if I was talking about him… idiot. Anyway.
I just told him that i’m not happy with what i see with him and that i don’t have to be any of those things as i didn’t want him because he doesn’t want me.
I want a fantastic relationship with a great guy… Not a relationship with an idiot who thinks its my job to please him….Prat.
I’m so over it its silly and he’s a silly boy. He was a god, now he’s a boy, without his toy to play with.
XXX
Debra
on 10/12/2011 at 4:46 am
greetings from the US. My b/f and I broke up on Monday. I am in the first couple of days of NC. I saw the signs and confronted him via email and voice mail since he would not return my calls. After talking futures, possible marriage, living together, planning vacations, spending time with family, friends, work, etc., taking dance classes together and doing all sort so fun activities over the past 1.5 yrs, he pulled a disappearing act for a couple of days. I have been down this road with him before last March and we were broken up for 2 months. After that break up, I sued him over a small amt of $ and personal items since he refused to return them. Long story short, I gave a month’s deadline that he ignored and so I filed suit in small claims court. He reacted to that. He actually tried to seduce and charm me at first, but I stood firm and within a week he did pay up and return all my items without having to go to court. Prior to him paying me back it was a very painful time for me and I cried and cried, eventually getting stronger and doing new things, including ballroom dancing. I maintained no contact except for one email when I asked for my personal items and the money owed. Then he wanted to come back and asked for another chance, saying he made a huge mistake and admitted how wrong he was about everything. My criteria for us to see each other again was first he had to pay and return my items, he had to communicate with me and be honest and the he counselor endorsed swing dancing to help work on the trust issues so we were working through this and e became an item again and things progressed over the next 6 months or so and I was happy and I he said he was too. He must be an incredible actor!
Last week, I received a note from him with a check at work and immediately I knew something was wrong since he was to pay me for some footall tix when he saw me next. So the next 2 days he pulled his disapearing act on me again and when I pushed him to talk-and I had to practically force him, he told me we have no future suddenly and he met someone else and refused to face me. I did not argue, but told him I don’t want to be with someone who doesn’t want me and lies to me. He claims he cares about me and has feelings, he just doesn’t see a future. His reason is he can’t live with my cats due to his allergies, which is clearly not the real issue. It hardly matters; he hurt me again and I fell for it again and I feel like a fool. I know I have to stay strong but it’s so hard and he’s being very hurtful by not doing what he promised.. to talk about our status and never disappear on me again. I am stuck alone with many of the comittments we made together to attend by myself. I really feel stupid and that my future was taken away from me once again after I thought we had worked through things. Help me maintain NC!! Thanks.
Outergirl
on 15/12/2011 at 5:27 pm
Hi Debra,
I am so sorry this happened to you. Everyone on this site has a similar story. Please do not feel that no one is responding, sometimes the newer articles catch everyone’s attention and that’s where you will find everyone. In the meantime, read as much as you can of Natalies articles. Please don’t blame yourself, you gave him a second chance and now you know how much this person s*cks. I know; the memories and future plans are a killer but stay around the people who love & care about you.
Best
HaikuGrrl
on 12/12/2011 at 5:57 pm
I am NC since NOvember 17th! Woo hoo for me!
But I WANT to stalk him. Help me! I need an intervention!
Intotouch
on 12/12/2011 at 10:13 pm
Thank you for the advice everyone.
I’m convinced. I’m not going out with this man again and will wait for the next one that I fancy.
Good luck everyone.
1st time thinking of me
on 19/12/2011 at 9:23 pm
As I read this post for the 10th plus time, I have to keep reminding myself that this is truly about me.
At 41, I am at the first time in my life realizing that all of my adult relationships with men have been identical. With the help of BR and learning that I am codependent, I have to being to do the very hard work of making me better for me. Is this easy, ABSOLUTELY not! However, it’s the best thing for me.
As I sat and read some of the post, I am 30 days out with NC, which I have started about 10 times with this same guy!! If that wasn’t a clue, I don’t know what is. But even then, when he came back begging for me to take his calls and for us to still be “married” ( his term for our relationship), I fell back into the same old behavior. But this time, to control myself, I called blocked him, so that “I” wouldn’t reach out to him. Now at 30 days, I wonder if he’s tried to call and right now want to reach out, I have to remember that for this thing to change, it has to start with me.
So I say all this to say that, if you’re knees are starting to buckle under the pressure of wanting to reach out, please don’t because if you do, it surely let’s them know that you are still more in love with them and that their feelings are more important to you than yours are. And as I type this, I am having to remind myself of this very same thing.
Outergirl
on 20/12/2011 at 6:03 pm
Bravo! 1st time! it’s not easy and IS an addiction/like an addiction. The only way out is through. Everyone on this site is here for you.
Beckceci
on 20/12/2011 at 7:29 pm
1st! Please stay strong, dear! I am in NC too, second time around after falling off the wagon and living to regret it. As Natalie says, the decision may hurt, but it doesn’t mean it isn’t the RIGHT decision. The eternal back-and-forths with the same guy are not healthy and you were not feeling well (otherwise you wouldn’t have started NC). As I said, I am also NC, not yet 30 days and I feel your pain, because I am going through it myself right now… You’re not alone, if that helps. Let’s stay strong for ourselves… we deserve it so much. I send you a big hug!
I’ve been running Baggage Reclaim since September 2005, and I’ve spent many thousands of hours writing this labour of love. The site has been ad-free the entire time, and it costs hundreds of pounds a month to run it on my own. If what I share here has helped you and you’re in a position to do so, I would love if you could make a donation. Your support is so very much appreciated! Thank you.
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I have been reading this blog for I don’t know hoy many months and always came upon comments of readers saying: “Wow, this resonates with me RIGHT NOW!” Well, today is the day when this resonates with ME.
After months of a pseudo-relationship with a guy that couldn’t commit to being with me or being without me, who sent mixed signals and confused the hell out of me, I finally had the epiphany when he went all cold on me and I caught him starting a heavy flirt-fest with another woman on Facebook (behind my back, of course). I couldn’t catch him on the phone (we’re long distance) so I wrote an e-mail venting. He made me lose my temper, badly. So I told him what I thought of him in a couple of sentences and went NC (this was 10 days ago). He never answered and I never expected him to. Nor do I expect him to say anything ever.
The decision came rather violently, granted, but I don’t regret going NC. It is hurting very, and I mean VERY, much, though. But that is not what is bothering me the most about my decision. It is the violence of it. The fact that he sent me on such an explosion of temper (that I couldn’t let off to his face at the moment I discovered he was starting something with another woman), that I ended up telling him he was a monumental a**hole by email. I feel that I was rude (although HE was the one doing the mindf*uckery, the non-commitment, the incipient cheating, etc) and that is giving me such a hard time… Is that normal? Am I insane? How come I feel like the rude one?
Of course, I don’t intend to break NC to apologize. That would start another episode of useless contact that would serve no-one’s interests and only caress his ego. But why do I feel that I am at fault here?
Anyways, I broke NC once before, got burnt, learned my lesson. I am not breaking it this time. Thank you Nat for another great post!!!
You have been sucked into the vortex of codependency ie., need to feel that you are the victim and your reaction is the withdrawal from the codependency addiction (people who use relationships with others as their sole source of value and identity). I have been very codependent myself, I am a rescuer and enabler and you apologising to your ex is enabling behaviour. It’s like telling the alcoholic that you wont tolerate his drinking then when he comes crawling back crying you forgive and rescue which completely contradicts your boundaries. Your telling him by apologising to him that he can continue to emotionally harm you as you dont value yourself. Please dont respond to him. Read “codependent no more” by Melody Beattie. Good luck x
It isn’t good to lose your temper with someone, be rude or react violently but those things are a result of ANGER, and you have a right to be angry, it’s a good thing. It’s a healthy reaction to a situation where someone is treating you badly and crossing your boundaries, and it’s there to protect you.
(It took me a long time to get this – I used to be really upset with myself when I got angry and wonder what was wrong with ME)
Obviously, there are healthy and unhealthy ways of expressing your anger, but if you couldn’t express yourself any other way then the situation wasn’t all that healthy anyway… I mean in an ideal world you’d have been able to sit down and discuss it like adults but the fact is that your situation (and him) didn’t allow for that option.
Besides which, if you put it in proportion, you’ve sent him a nasty email. You haven’t dug his eyeballs out with a spoon or killed his cat or crashed your car into his car at speed. You’ve sent him a manky email that *might* make him feel slightly less-than-good if he reads it. I think he’ll survive.
I understand the ‘losing-the-moral-highground’ concern, but a) his moral highground isn’t a highground at all, it’s a boggy marsh some ten feet or so below sea-level, so you haven’t really and b) all it means is that you’re not 100% saint. That’s a good thing, cos being completely saintly is, ime, not an awful lot of fun.
Don’t dwell on the email or think that it puts you in the wrong… it doesn’t. Besides which, there IS an element of violent reaction to NC – it’s drastic because the situation calls for it. And, really, it’s just an excuse to keep thinking about him. Don’t. Flush. It’s not important in the big scheme of things because HE’S not worthy of YOU and you’re not going to see him again.
Thank you so much, Yoghurt! I needed to read these words. Sometimes when you deal with this type of dudes you end up losing your sense of direction, you know? I don’t want to call it a “moral compass”, but sort of.
We had never had an angry fight and had never called each other names before, that is why I feel “in the wrong” now. Even though I saw through his “act” and understood that he was passive-aggressively letting me know by his change of behavior that something was not right. It’s just that after months of putting up with his mixed signals, his not committing to ANYTHING, flip-flapping, future faking, etc I just suddenly felt betrayed, angry and treated like an idiot.
What I said to him in the email was (translated literally because I am a native Spanish speaker): “Not only are you a hypocrite, a coward, and ungrateful; you also turned out to be quite the son of a b*tch”. This last word is very nasty in Spanish and it is the one giving me a hard time now. But yes, he’s probably offended (why do I bother) or doesn’t care one way or the other (again: why do I bother).
In any case: thank you so much for your response, it helps A LOT. I will print it out and read it when I feel weak. Thanks again!!
Hi Beckceci
You are embarassed by your reaction. That’s normal, that’s ok. IMO however, I do not feel you can blame your AC for your behavior. You could have gone NC [hooray! you did] or even in a cold tone, state why you no longer need him in your life. Lastly, he does not sound like he is seeking anything further from you [hooray again!] and that includes an apology. It is our ego thinking they want to hear from us. At least that’s how my ego thought. Good luck.
Beckcici,
Allow me to assure you…no matter the debacle you would have regretted some element. I walked away from my AC very cleanly, very clinically almost…with him thinking that I thought the sun shined out of his arse. Sometimes I regret *not* sending him a scathing email outlining the list of his fundamental flaws as a human being , at times I’m still tempted now to contact him and let him know he’s not all that although I’m pretty sure he already knows on some level. At the end of the day it comes down to this: it is what you do now that counts, focus on you. Who gives a crap what he thinks because unfortunately these types of AC’s don’t give a shite about what we think. Spend time on you, pampering you, getting to know you.
Everything’s been said but I just wanted to say that I’m glad that it helped and good luck! 🙂
Also, I’ve never sent an angry or rude email to my EUM. I have, however, expended incredible amounts of time and energy on lengthy analytical breakdowns of our ‘situation’ in which I endeavoured to be cute, funny, straight-talking but friendly and expressing my needs without making any demands that would scare him off.
That’s FAR more embarrassing and awful, especially as I now know that he really couldn’t have given less of a toss about what I thought and probably didn’t even bother to read them…
Everything Yoghurt wrote is absolutely right. A few years back I snapped on someone and showed an entirely different side to my personality. And in the moment I felt totally satisfied, but shortly there after I immediately apologized. And do you know what changed? NOTHING. He still treated me the same way and I was still the same girl who wasn’t okay with that. The only thing the apology did was maintain a screwy status quo that I wasn’t truly satisfied with, until I finally got enough sense to step.
I actually see it as a good thing that you feel bad about what you did, to a degree. If you’re a decent human being, you are going to feel at least a little bad for possibly hurting someone’s feelings, even if that someone has a blatant disregard for yours and probably had it coming. Don’t feel bad for what you said, but try to figure out a healthier way to express your thoughts for the next time you’re having an issue with someone. On the other hand, while it probably wasn’t the best approach, I believe that you had to reach a certain level of pain in order to use it. They say that anger is usually a secondary emotion, covering up another one that’s really driving us in the moment. It serves as a protective mechanism once a boundary has undoubtedly been crossed. You have a right to whatever feelings you have, no matter how gritty they may be. Just make sure you’re staying in tuned to what’s really going on beneath the surface and you’ll be a lot less likely to act out of character. I wouldn’t apologize, at least not right now, because if you do it wouldn’t be genuine. Give it time and you probably won’t give it a second thought.
Outergirl,
I don’t know if I am trying to apportion blame. In any case, I believe we are both to blame. Him for treating me like an idiot and making me lose my temper, and me for having enabled his behavior for too long.
As for his seeking nothing further from me: that is true NOW. He sought all manner of things before, though, especially after I went NC on him twice (after explaining why I didn’t need him in my life very calmly… which he conveniently ignored after a while to mess me up again). I have no idea if he expects an apology or anything at all from me now. I have absolutely no idea what goes on in his head, I could never figure him out, I realize. I suppose this time he thinks I am crazy and will not bother again. In that case, as Nat said, he will be doing me a favor.
In any case, thanks for the feedback and good luck to you too, dear! 🙂
“Besides which, if you put it in proportion, you’ve sent him a nasty email. You haven’t dug his eyeballs out with a spoon or killed his cat or crashed your car into his car at speed. You’ve sent him a manky email that *might* make him feel slightly less-than-good if he reads it. I think he’ll survive.” Hilarious Yoghurt and oh so right! And yes, the anger is valid.
riverlass, I hope you don’t mind, but I respectfully disagree. I think it’s wrong to label people or their behavior as codependent or addiction without having an actual mental healthcare professional making an assessment. even then, I seriously question the validity of the literature out there on love and romance addiction, after reading almost all of it and participating in a group for 2 months. the bottom line in the handing of it has a basis in 12-step ideology, which works well for many kinds of addiction — but not all, and there is a huge amount of relapse. it counts on people going to a “higher power” to surrender for healing, and accepting that one has a “disease”, and one will always be “in recovery”. this totally takes away the person’s own power of mind and reason to think clearly and make the necessary changes within themselves to create healthy boundaries and relationship patterns. it also has no way of dealing with other serious disorders or unresolved grief reactions. the main group out there calls relationship avoidant behavior “Emotional Anorexia” — no psychologists, doctors, studies, clinical trials, etc, just a bunch of laypeople, many of whom need serious therapy making up out of thin air a self-diagnosis for hurting people to latch on to. there are some interesting concepts in the book you mentioned. IMHO, Baggage Reclaim + counselling/treatment if necessary = Best option out there for guiding you through NC, getting over an EU/AC, moving past heartbreak, creating healthy relationships
Yeah, afraid I disagree too Riverlass. Articulate as many of our posts maybe..it is a huge leap to assess such a complex condition as co-dependency online.. It needs astute referral and much ground work on the part of the individual and couple who feel this is part of their interaction dynamic.
You are correct in your definition of co-dependency, it’s useful to have that out there…for all of us. However I think ‘labelling’ isn’t helpful, particularly in a black and white manner, whilst the process and fact are still emerging.
One of the great things about BR is that Nat doesn’t claim to be a therapist, or therapeutically diagnose other’s issues..this is a site of self awareness and evolution, it’s a site where an individual has time to make decisions about their relationships choices and their part in the success and failure of this..
We often know that we want or are going to eat the white chocolate and raspberry swirl ice cream but we know that if we do we can come on here and know why we did it or avoid it in future. We hope to change.
I say this as a recovering Florence and Arch Renovator.. I always check myself now when I hear myself telling someone that they’have’ to do something..Florence’s love diagnosing other’s problems and let’s face it, we have enough of our own.
Anoosh,
You are right.
Once upon a time you were shy and now you suffer from social-anxiety disorder, a doormat now someone with low self-esteem, selfish now an avoidant, then a weak willed put-upon wife married to a drunk, now you are a co-dependent married to a alcohol-addict. Labels changed, I think the new descriptions try to remove the shame based labels attached to the illness but have added a new problem, you are diseased with no chance to escape your new label. You never learn from your mistakes. But many of these new labels make us thing differently about ourselves and our actions, not a bad thing, just still live by Socrates dictum “The unexamined life is not worth living.”
I am no fan of the 12 steps, because of the higher power mantra – too based on the evangelical I have sinned and I must make penitence for the rest of my life and because you swap one addiction for another. Plus spilling my guts to complete strangers with no psy degree scares me more than the next love stunt between the TOWIE King Twonk and his orange on/off girlfriend. Wait, hold on I spill my guts here lol
I have had that discussion with someone who has been going for 12 years, “ aren’t you normal now, instead of a recovering alcoholic” I asked? Why should you defined yourself by your weakness or your past failures? Even if you don’t agree with the self-help books – I don’t agree with many, I want to burn Dr Phil mustache, I decide what I can take and what I can leave. I had many years of therapy for a problem and I have found that after years of peeling bullshit from my persona ,I am allergic to dogma. The book Women who love too much made me look at things differently, and reading Alice Miller and Karen Horney changed my life and helped my therapy.
What would you call a woman like my mother’s friend, who sticks with a man who had many affairs, put her down, was a control freak for 25 years and when he leaves her out of the blue begs him to come home because she is nothing without him?
Hi Beckceci,
I totally relate to you. One of the many, MANY reasons I had to go NC was his actions were coming really close to making me react or want to react, in a very undignified, out of control manner. Oh our AC’s have plenty to be blamed for, I am just saying, and you certainly seem to be in agreement; that we are ulitmately responsible for our choices. You definitely made the right one. As for him wanting things from you..see? now that you don’t give him everything he wants [the All You Can Eat Buffet], he’s lost interest. Mine did that too, a few halfhearted attempts, to really, just get back on the buffet line. Good riddance to bad rubbish. You are being really strong!
gahh! do NOT break NC to apologize. TRUST ME. It will feel very gratifying a few months from now to know you cut it off after only ONE email. Plus, he treated you like a bag of Sh*t. I think one nasty email venting what an a-hole he is , was warranted or at the very least understandable. Keep up the NC!! Even if you think about him, resist, resist another email or ANY contact whatsoever. It may feel crap now, like Nat said, it may be near-impossible to fight the urge to apologize (just feeding your ego, making you look like the bigger person, to YOU, that is…) or another email “explaining” what you were feeling, why you said what you said, why you are justified for saying it, or not, or WHATEVER…just. don’t. DO IT.
It took me like, ten messages and half a phone conversation plus a year late a couple more back and forths’ before i *really* cut contact. and i mean, for real. And it was only after the second email that i started wishing i’d broke it off and stayed totally NC. In the end, you’re going to feel sooooooo much more satisfied with this…stay strong!!!
I agree there is no reason to apologize for your feelings however I learned the hard way to never be rude via email and, really, there is no excuse for it. What I do now is write an initial note and email it to myself so at least I press SEND and get it out of my system. Then after I’m calmer I write whatever I intended to say – to whoever I intended to say it – politely, and I have no emotional hangover as a result of my actions or words.
Sue,
I feel like you about being rude via email or any digital platform, that’s why I was ever careful of how I spoke to him, via email, messenger, etc. Sometimes an email can be, like a letter, a nice way of expressing what you feel without the drama of face-to-face or phone conversations. I am not someone who loses her temper frequently, but sometimes you need to communicate something that you have trouble voicing, so a letter or an email seems like an option (you state what you think and then you can have the conversation about it, of course).
However, the problem here was: 1) I discovered the reason he was not talking to me or taking my calls was that he was having something with another woman behind my back; 2) This made me feel extremely angry and betrayed; 3) After so much communicating everything politely on my part and it not producing anything near compassion or empathy from him, I just lost it. I just plain and simple LOST IT.
I feel awful being rude, I am not rude to anyone (I can express my anger, etc, without being rude), but he got to me. He hurt me deeply. I felt like a wounded animal. Zero rationality at the time.
I think what bothers me the most is the fact that he drove me to do something I despise doing and now I feel doubly hurt. I know I should have done nothing, waited it out, had the last conversation to end things politely… but I felt wounded, and after months reasoning and being polite and communicative and supportive, etc, I realized it did NOTHING to him to be so polite and collected. So I lashed out. I am not proud of it, it is giving me a hard time, but maybe if I understand the reasons for my lashing out I may forgive myself and move on.
Beckceci, I’ve been following your comment and the responses and I wanted to say this to you and I hope it helps:
You’re not perfect and you’re not a saint but you sound like you expect yourself to be by almost expecting that you could experience something devastating and handle it perfectly coiffed.
No it’s not nice to be rude on email but it’s not nice to do a lot of things. That’s not to say you’re doing tit for tat, but if your secret fear is that you blowing your gasket via email now puts you on some sort of ‘level’ with your ex, you’d want to think again.
This is where I have to say firmly but with love, to get a grip.
It’s not like you did an Angela Basset in Waiting To Exhale and burnt all of his shit. Yeah you told him about himself, yeah you did it by email, yeah I’m sure you would do different next time round but actually, you’ve done yourself a favour. You’re now done ’cause you sure as hell won’t be going back.
As others pointed out, you have a *right* to be angry. Don’t censor it or act like you can only get angry in a dignified manner. Your hurt is also legitimate.
Forgive yourself – trust me when I say that your ‘eruption’ is not just this one incident but a number of things. Listen to you in the future and just say no to assclowns. Let this go and stop reliving the drama – it keeps you tied to him.
Oh and do *not* apologise. You can be sorry and show regret for what happened in your future dealings. Sorry doesn’t mean having to seek out the person especially when in the dynamic you were in with him, he’d use it to wipe his slate completely clean. Write an unsent letter it bothers you that much but do not say another word unless you’re a drama queen.
“(…) if your secret fear is that you blowing your gasket via email now puts you on some sort of ‘level’ with your ex, you’d want to think again.”
Nat, I don’t know how you do it. That is EXACTLY IT. I had trouble putting my feeling into words, why I felt so uncomfortable with my outburst, but there you said it.
And yes, I need to get a grip because, reading your comment and that of other ladies here (as well as hearing the opinion of my dear friends), I know I am missing the point.
There will be no future dealings with him because I will not contact him and he’s unlikely to want to contact me after what I wrote to him. I admit my being nasty with him was in part a way to make sure there would be no wish on his part to recontact me. Let’s see if it works. I think it will.
Thanks again for your response and another big THANK YOU to all the commenters for your words. You are helping me BIG TIME.
Ironic how we hold ourselves up to saintly levels of behaviour, while the AC is off acting like a clown.
I’m totally conflict avoidant and nice, caring etc. But on the other hand, why care so much about other people when we don’t care as much about ourselves?
If they’re a clown, totally blast their a*ss! (That is unless they’re violent/abuser). We are too kind to other people, if a criminal/robber went into our house we would probably sit them down, make them tea and try politely explain why robbing us is not good.
Hi Sue, that’s a good idea about writing in anger but not sending and then trying more calmly.
I do however think it’s unrealistic to never be rude. Email is just a mode of communication – I don’t think any of us should strive to be rude but conversely I think there’s a fine line between anger and rudeness, in terms of how it comes out. It would be rude of me to call you an “asshole” (even if you are although you’re not I must add), but if I said to you, even if it was with annoyance that I was annoyed because you’d done A,B, and C and yada yada yada” that’s anger being expressed. Obviously this crosses back to rudeness if it’s transcended anger into rage – being disrespectfully honest.
That said, going back to your original suggestion, it’s good to think before you speak or write, especially with the latter because once you press send, it’s out there. That’s not to say you’re any less accountable with verbal but I do think that when we don’t leave things in draft, we actually get far more carried away because it feels safer to vent in words than it does face to face.
It’s part of the reason why I keep emphasising why we should also go easy on the lazy communication – if you had to step up and say half of this stuff face to face, or make full on contact, you’d see a very different state of affairs. I also don’t believe in having conflict via email – in or out of a relationship. It’s a bullet dodger for sure.
Beckceci,
There is nothing wrong with being angry when wronged. It’s healthy. Someone took advantage of your kind nature and thought of you as a fool. Many hold down their anger, turn it against themselves, get ill because they feel they have no right to it (up-bringing) .Women are conditioned not to lose it, it’s not “feminine” and men don’t like angry women – nothing remind them of being a small child at the hands of their powerful mother than a pissed-off angry girlfriend. I am not talking of the anger of the bully, the childish with a tantrum or the overbearing who only want their way.
Women put up with a lot more than men would, and consequently take more time to lose it and when they do they drag everything but the kitchen sink in the venting, blowing everything out of proportion because they held their anger for so long. Or go on bitching – cat-fights binges as a way to vent.
He messed you up, you lost it, called him names, he deserve it.
Now show how good your self esteem by deleting the twat from your lives – sentimental, fantasy and digital. And pick up clues early on and nip the disrespect early on. You are worth more than his way of treating you.
Read If Love Could Think: Using Your Mind to Guide Your Heart by Alon Gratch or any of Harville Hendrix.
I just wanna clap like crazy Artemisia! A to the fricking men!
Beckceci– I too had a very sudden ending after getting extremely upset on the phone w/my last exLDR/EUM, and basically blamed myself & my temper for a year, b/c it was our first major conflict. then I found Baggage Reclaim and finally figured out I was reacting to a gigantic Future Faker, who took me on a 1year magic carpet ride through his separation from 15 year marriage. when the time came for things to move forward and for that Future to become Now, he took the opportunity of this heated fight to overnight do a 180, a couple vanishing acts, even a recent return for BS “friendship” after 6 months of NC. after it 1st happened, I thought we would work things out, b/c he was as deeply invested & In Love as I was, and couples *do* argue, sometimes very heatedly. Bzzzt — WRONG! all of a sudden, he “felt differently”. I began apologizing up the yinyang, and taking the blame. and he *LET* me do that. it started a year & half long journey of heartbreak, which I am still recovering from. I tortured myself for a year — if only I’d gotten off the phone and said “let’s talk about it later”, or if I’d handled it this way or that, we’d still be blissfully happy and probably married by now… there’s a part of me that *still* believes that. as if I *caused* him to be a compassionless, cruel, cowardly Jekyll & Hyde. NONSENSE! he wanted a fantasy to distract himself from his shiite marriage/separation. he had no intention of bringing me into his world, really. he is textbook EUM, and I an FBG. therapy, journaling, self-care, self-help books, friends, family, taking art courses, and finally self-help group for Love addiction — nothing really helped, until Baggage Reclaim gave me crystal clear clarity. I have a long way to go, but it took 4+ decades to get here, so it might take a bit more time. It’s normal to get infuriated when a bonafide Assclown jerks you around, and dodges responsibility for playing with your heart and emotions. You’re allowed to get angry and express it in a healthy way. I can honestly say, I may yet make more mistakes in romance, but I will *never* second guess my EUM-radar ever again, or feel bad about standing up for myself.
{btw, I have an issue with calling this codependency or addiction, I think that’s completely WRONG, inaccurate and dangerous. will make a note on the above comment about it} **this was supposed to be in…
Anoosh- You are describing my experience with the EUM quite well. I also had the guy who got very upset w/me and called me names when I showed even a hint of anger. Nevermind that I was reacting in a very appropriate way to HIS behavior whenever I got angry. Anger is good when dealt with in a healthy way. The guys who want to squash any hint of anger = nightmares. I also had to apologize repeatedly for things that “made” him feel differently. Direct quote- “I don’t feel close to you anymore and it’s because YOU did x,y and z in the relationship.” Awful. It’s all bs and shows that these guys cannot take responsibility for anything. I see that now. But WOW is that hurtful when you are in it. I think we have to be wary of anyone who tells us WE are causing THEIR feelings to change/dissipate/whatever. Our natural inclination as FBGs is to try to twist and turn and suppress normal emotions so that we don’t “make” them lose their feelings for us. Maddening, and ps- Does.Not.Work. They will always find some other fault in us or some reason to say we aren’t *quite* right for them. Good riddance to bad trash! I also love that you called it a “magic carpet ride.” So perfect. I’m stealing this!
Hi Anoosh, I think the regret that is felt about blowing up can distort the reality of the situation somewhat. You end up forgetting what you were blowing up about or the fact that it wouldn’t have worked anyway – a man that’s actually going to divorce does it whether he has an emotional airbag to land on or not. The argument was convenient for him – it provided an exit and a foil that would prevent him from looking too closely at his own actions. He could even convince himself that if you hadn’t said what you had, you’d be together and he’d have divorced. That’s quite frankly a load of shit. Conflict is a normal and necessary part of life. How can the onus be put on you to never put a foot wrong or express any discontent when this twerp is not even fricking perfect himself?!
I can’t speak for anyone else but you hit the nail on the head with “Stop staring at the problem after you’ve made the decision”.
To try and hash through the details after deciding NC is sheer lunacy…(at least for me). I catch myself thinking “I’m absolutely NC EXCEPT if he does ‘this and that’…but that’s only if I realllllyy think he means it this time”. LOL
Once NC is in place there really is nothing to debate. It’s done and over.
Thanks NML for being my sanity some days =). You’re one gifted Mama!
Thanks Metagirl. You’re absolutely right – The point of NC is there *are* no scenarios. To have to cut someone off to this length, they have clocked up more than enough carry on that makes returning to what was an unhealthy relationship a no-go area. Stay strong!
I wish I had seen this post before I contacted my ex after 3 weeks of NC. Ladies breaking NC is fatal and I can’t tell how much damage that did to me. My ex sounded happy, puffed up and left me feeling not so good enough, and like I could never win him back (duh)
So I finally decided to do NC in its real essence. Stop peeping, block him from everywhere, stop signing into my friends face book account to see his profile and read his comments, change my number.
I was the other woman,and I didn’t know. I called his girlfriend and he dumped me for doing so. Well, im engaging violently in NC-He definitely is NO SUPERHERO!
Transitioning, stick with NC. There’s nothing to be gained from reaching out to him as you’ve already discovered. Well done on changing your number etc – this man is a fraud. Keep moving forward and don’t look back.
An online romance developed with an old friend of mine and I decided to fly 5000 miles across continents for xmas to see if their is any potential for a relationship. We were initially both in relationships. I ended mine and he did not end his. My flight is in a week and he wrote to me 3 days ago and tried to arrange our rendezvous so he could see his g/f over the weekend without her knowledge of me being there and then him take the day off from work on the Monday to see me. The arrogant bugger even said “I am all yours all day”…..I was rolling on the floor laughing my *ss off cos guess what? I had already made the decision days earlier that if he chooses to continue this game when I get there he can take a hike….no thanks, not interested and I wrote back and said “bog off” I am not accepting his behaviour, one of us has integrity and it’s not him. I had given up on this guy weeks ago and had told him several times that I dont do threesomes and he had made the proverbial excuses that it was over between them but of course according to his facebook they were still in a relationship. Boundaries have to be practiced and we remained long distance friends. We only emailed so I figured no harm in that and I started to date good men who made me feel valued. However, now he wants to continue with the secrecy in person and I am not doing it. I have too much pride and I am too headstrong to behave in such a selfish and demeaning manner. And rather than feeling like I have lost someone or something, I feel like I did when I quit smoking over 2 years ago cold turkey. I feel like I got my life back including my healthy mind and slowly with the workouts my body is healing also. Same principles apply to this. I am focussed on my healthy lifestyle and if he chooses to be a coward, she is very welcome to him. So Nat sometimes making the right decision feels FRIGGING AWESOME!!! I danced all night long after I sent that email. My male cousin wrote to me and said “way to go sister”; cos decent men know the difference between right and wrong. And I told my ex-friend I am going to have a fabulous trip too without any drama and now without seeing him!!! Wonderful. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Good for you RIverlass. By truly embracing your decision, you get to focus on the benefits instead of seeing looking out for yourself as being a great inconvenience. Merry Christmas to you too!
“Print out a calendar and fill it up for two whole weeks at the start of NC or after you’ve made a decision. Think about what you’ll do if you get the urge and what you’ll replace the impulse with – quite a few readers hit the treadmill, go for a walk, or call/see a friend or family member.”
This is so key to NC! My problem wasn’t reaching out to my ex, it was not responding when he made contact. For the first several months of NC, I could not NOT respond. I was still trying to get in the infamous, futile “last word” with someone that didn’t play fair and didn’t actually give a fig about how I felt! What I started doing, was when the voicemail/text came in, I’d take my dog for a walk. I’d say to myself, “Natasha, take this furry lump of love out for a walk and think rationally about what you hope to achieve by responding (File under “Sh*t, Jack”).” It worked! I also found golf and tennis really helpful. Both are social sports, so you’re focusing on the game and the company – not on any ex foolishness.
Another thing to pay attention to is when you’re hanging out with your friends, have something to talk about other than your ex. It’s normal to want to analyze with your Lady Think Tank – hell, we’ve all analyzed our friends’ exes right along with them! However, I found that I had so much more fun talking about something, ANYTHING other than that. Truth be told, I’m sure my friends had a lot more fun too. Loved this article Nat 🙂
Totally agree, Natasha, on the group activities, and ones that are not conducive to the old pity party. I do dance, writing and acting classes/group-thingies (and I wish I could have a fur-baby!). It’s so nice (and essential) for the brain to have a break from this stuff. The mind needs quiet time and times devoted to playful, fun things to work properly.
Having said this, I just got those yucky chemicals in my body when I saw recent ex reply to a group email. Now, minutes later, I am calming down, but I still got that fire-up in the belly and brain. Ick. I can’t even pretend to myself that he wants to be back with me. But what helps is reminding myself that I don’t want to be with him either – it’s uncomfortable, not working out with someone, but it doesn’t have to be a tragedy. But, yeah, I suppose I do want an ego-stroke of some sort!
I can relate to Beckceci’s comment – I swear a lot of the pain is a function of how much control over the break-up you felt you had, and whether you felt like you were heard and shown respect and love; a tall order – emotions are raw, and often people are busy villainising and blaming – but it makes such a difference. I think my response to recent ex comes from me not quite yet letting go of some discomfort with how he did the old ‘things are fine’ so that he could manage the ending thing. What can one do about that except not focus on it, as Nat says? Speaking of, back to work!
Elle, I think what you felt is totally normal. Egos are always involving themselves in break-ups! Your ex sounded like a maaaaajor cold fish, so it’s not surprising that he’s very “business as usual”, you know? Break-ups always bring up uncomfortable feelings and I think you’re handling it perfectly – i.e., you realize that you don’t want him back and that it’s okay for it to feel a little strange when his name pops up on a group email. I completely agree with Beckceci too. On a related note, I think this is (part of) why the Houdini Break-Ups are so painful, because not only is it disrespectful, but the person on the receiving end of it is certainly not being heard! As for your ex, of course you felt discomfort – I got a big time EU vibe from him. The only place cold fish is enjoyable is at the sushi bar! *Big Hugs*
Lady Think Tank!! I love it.
Haha! Love the sushi bar comment! You’re right – it was all so clinical and deflating. I am nearly there. I can see myself avoiding obsessions, worries and faulty conclusions of the AC bust-up (including I feel so bad losing him therefore he must have been a real and true love – overlooking that being with him felt worse – what Nat deals with in this post!). Have not been sent to any ditch of doom this time. But, you’re right, it’s like I am having the last shivers when I remember being treated so coldly for a good month or two. Just images of me smiling or hugging him and him acting like I was such an awful burden, and even a threat. It’s nearly passed. Helped by some big non-romance wins for me, and just deciding to make things easier and nicer in smaller ways. Thanks for the push along! You seem to be going terrifically. x
Ah, Elle, deflating is SUCH a perfect word for these relationships. I can remember going to visit my ex being full of such enthusiasm and then *pppffffffffffffftttttt*! I love the idea of doing little things to make life nicer – that was a huge help to me as well. That’s so awesome that you had some big wins, because those things really do help build the old confidence back up again 🙂 xoxo
Be gentle on yourself Elle – is it even a month yet? You’re bound to still be going through a myriad of emotions that will settle into something more steady. At the heart of it, you’ve very much validated the rightness of the relationship being over – that’s critical in this process. But you are only human not made of stone. Yeah it is uncomfortable our relationships not working out but letting them go leaves you free to try at something with a better prospect of working out. It’s also uncomfortable but it’s life. You can’t know whether it can or can’t work out by doing a bit of discovery or having a go at a relationship. Not all of his foibles were immediately obvious. When they did become obvious, you tried for a bit and then you accepted the topline information – it wasn’t working, he was unavailable, and you weren’t happy. Nuff said.
Love “Lady Think Tank” Natasha! I agree about the having another conversation topic. These people are not the centre of the universe. If they’re the *only* thing to talk about, you know you haven’t got enough going on in your life. I too have sat around playing Diagnosis Mr Unavailable/Assclown but talking about other things is a way of focusing your mind and allowing other thoughts and experiences to creep in.
“Diagnosis Mr Unavailable/Assclown” has me cracking up! My tendency to overanalyze was so severe that I HAD to have a plan of action, otherwise I would have wasted a lot of perfectly good social time yammering about an assclown. Whenever I’d want to bring my ex up in conversation, I’d mentally snap the rubber band and think of something else to say before I opened my mouth. It was also BEYOND helpful that I had BR to work through it with, because being able to share in the comments helped to get it out of my system and I was sharing with a Virtual Lady Think Tank that knew exactly what I was talking about. Not to mention *AHEM* a certain advice guru to whom I am forever grateful 🙂
“Stop expecting that if it’s the ‘right’ decision it’ll feel good. Some of you have been high on the relationship crack and felt good off a bad decision that later felt bad.”
I seriously think that the universe is trying to tell me something, cause this is literally the third time today that I’ve honed in on a message like this. Or maybe it’s just my conscience being hungry for it, I dunno. I have gone through this same mode of thinking in relation to a relationship before, and I thought that by removing myself from it that I had also removed myself from that school of thought as well. It’s just scary how I found out that it crossed into other areas of my life. For this past year, I’ve felt myself settling into a comfort zone that really isn’t all that comfortable, but it’s familiar. I’m 25 years old and I’ve lived in the same area for most of my life. I love my friends and family, but I just want the experience of setting up a life elsewhere, completely on my own. In the past I would decide that I wanted things to change, and I would feel that way for a few days but slip right back to where I was, finding every excuse in the book to stay. But this feeling hasn’t gone away for a while now, and I’ve realized that there really are pros and cons to whatever decision I make, but I would be much happier, in the long run with the change. I’ve always been fearful of change, I’ve been known to ruminate over any and all possible consequences. But looking back I’ve come to realize that the changes that I have managed to make in my life eventually do feel good in the long run.
This post could relate to any area in life where one has settled for something that is no good. Thanks for the reminder and motivation to do what’s best for myself.
“I’ve realized that there really are pros and cons to whatever decision I make, but I would be much happier, in the long run with the change.” Absolutely Lia. That’s what making a decision involves – change versus staying in your comfort zone. There’s only so long you can ruminate for. Take pen to paper, outline your idea and formulate a plan around it, do any research necessary and formulate a plan. I’m very fortunate that not only did I get to travel a bit in my early twenties, but I moved to London on my own on Jan 31st 2001 away from Dublin where it’s great but we’re all in one another’s business. I wanted to create a life on my own terms, even if it had my cockups in it! I thought I’d only be here for a few years but here I am nearly 11 years later. You only have one life. Don’t wake up in 5 or 10 years time and still be thinking the same way because you’ll regret not having evolved your outlook and at least being decisive.
Oh goodness the decision a few months ago to go NC on my ex was or even just to break up with him was one of the hardest ones I’ve ever made. There were a number of things that pushed me to do it…his blatant disrespect, disregard and dismissal of my feelings was one, the withdrawal of his affections and criticisms was another as was the growing deceit.
At first it was agonizing….waking up in the morning having temporarily forgotten in my sleep that he’s gone and the despair at having to remember it all over again, the wondering why the hell he hadn’t called me to even see if I was OK, praying that he would just so it would confirm to me that he cared about me just an ounce.
Funny thing is I felt guilty too because when I broke up (despite how hideously he treated me) he was going through a ‘tough’ time and felt I was abandoning him. However I was going through a tough time at the same time too and his empathy for me was pretty minuscule, perhaps I would argue non-existent. He didn’t really seem to have much of an interest in me, my feelings or life.
For me it seemed as though as soon as things stopped being shiny and new and he realized that he actually might be needed, expected or wanted, he checked out.
After I cut contact he made no attempts whatsoever to make contact with me and seen him flirting with a girl online within a couple of days. It hurt me but I blocked him in every means possible online, deleted his phone number.
Still to this day (few months later) he hasn’t contacted me nor I have him. It is hurtful but I’m just happy to know what kind of person he is and I know there is better. My friends and family have been the biggest sources of support. They have helped me in my moments of self doubt when I believe I did the wrong thing and was too harsh on him.
Then I just think of the bad times; the belittling, the criticisms, the unreliability, the bullshit… and it helps also to put things into perspective.
Wow Sam….i think we dated the SAME guy! 😉 Reading this just might have saved me today…and you can damn well bet i’m reading it tomorrow and the next day and the next! I just asked for NC 5 days ago, and I feel like hell. I feel sick, can’t eat, sleep to avoid the pain and as you state EXACTLY, feel scared when I have to wake up everyday and remember everything all over again. This guy lied over and over, cheated with different women, all while I supported him and moved in with him after he fell on hard financial times. Even when he wasn’t lying about other women, he was lying about something. In the beginning I fell head over heels, he paid attention to me, called all the time, sent me texts all throughout the day, that was the only way he was reliable. In 6 months I only ever met his brother. No friends, no other family, he never even introduced me to his ex wife. I felt like a shameful secret. Now I’m hurting more than I ever thought possible. He’s made no attempt to contact me, and i admit i tried to call him, but i can tell he’s rejecting my calls. Just a week ago he was coming on strong, after I caught him with yet another girl he met online. He told me he wanted me back after the first time, yet he made damn sure he had a back up plan if i actually left, which i did, but not totally right away. Two months of more agony with this guy, when I had already known I was unhappy. I’ve been regretting my NC decision since I made it despite all that! I don’t want to feel this way! Sam as you describe how your relationship played out, mine was SO similar. Once I looked to him as my partner, my other half, he seemed to want nothing to do with me. I went to him and told him what I was going through, and he brushed me off as it being all in my head. I can’t figure out what the hell he even really wanted me for if he wanted 10 other women on the side.That was of course the major reason I ended things, NC was probably more for me as I simply couldn’t resist him. I ended it also for his disrespect of me (his ex wife was over one night when i showed up, and she opened my mail…and he let her.) His lies, his BS, his hot and cold behavior towards me, the put downs, I never felt good enough for him. But when he threw me a crumb, you bet i ate that up, when he did make me feel good, i felt like a million bucks. But when he turned cold, I went into panic mode. I’m sad, and I wish everything would have been different. This site is honestly keeping me afloat. Thanks everyone for sharing, you have no idea what kind of support and hope this have given me. I have a long ways to go but I think I can make it.
Natalie, it’s time to flush this turd. Bullshit begets bullshit. If someone can keep slinking around with women and you’re still receptive, they work out that you’re in denial and take advantage. This man can’t keep his dick in his pants or his eyes focused on you. He’s also a user.
Complaining to him about how you feel and the problems you have with *his* behaviour, is like being sexually harassed by your manager and then complaining *to* them about their sexual harassment. How can you expect sympathy and empathy from the person who is literally effing you around?
There is no point in wishing that this situation would’ve been different. There’s nothing you can do to change him – the only thing you could do differently is have flushed his arse the first time you caught him out.
Yes NML, thanks! Basically what I was doing was pushing FLUSH, then RUNNING for the plunger!! NO MORE!! I am working very hard on focusing on me. This is a pattern for me with EUMs. I am reading everything on this site, and coming to understand my unavailability as well, I have found comfort in the uncomfortable, then asking Why? Why isn’t this working out, why am I so unhappy. DUH! Stop being a drama queen and stop letting shady situations feed that! I’m also looking at my patterns that I need to break because I know and deserve to be happy, I must take accountability for that. I am a good person. 🙂 Time to stop letting those unqualified to decide for me what I want and allowing them to manage down my expectations as you say NML! I knew he was crossing FAR TOO MANY of my boundaries, but I kept betting on potential and didn’t trust myself or respect myself to LISTEN TO MYSELF!!! He’s not my problem anymore, thank god!
Hi Sam,
Good decision. Because being the secret lover doesn’t move you up the ladder to girlfriend/wife. and in my case, amoungst all the other stupid & horrible stuff I went through, he was cheating on me for last 5 months with a new one he brought into *rotation*. This AC has back-ups for his back-up.
I’m not really sure why I went along with it for 14 months – the last several of which I was trying to strengthen myself to get out. Mainly, I was led-on, let-down, in shock, would recover at his future faking… repeat, lather, rinse. He worked out of town and I was addicted to his dreamy voice and brief little calls – when he was in town I was never the one he spent any of the holidays with… they were for the primary girlfriend – who I wasn’t sure even existed. He also spent an abnormal amount of time with a manfriend – over night visits… Hmm.? So Many secrets, lies, manipulations and deceptions. Pure Evil. This is the first time & the last of my debut as the “secret Lover”.
“Still to this day (few months later) he hasn’t contacted me nor I have him. It is hurtful but I’m just happy to know what kind of person he is and I know there is better.”
Honey I have been where you are and I know how hurtful it is, but it gets easier with each day. I bet if you thought about it, you would see that, other than your feelings, there really wasn’t much of a loss there. Was he really adding that much to your life for you to miss his presence? Were the things that he did or said to/for you that significant for his absence to leave that big of a hole in your life? I bet he wasn’t, and I bet they didn’t. If anything, I bet you were of more of a benefit to him than the other way around. Sounds like you saw that he was able to disregard you while you were in the relationship, so don’t be so surprised by how he’s acting, or not acting, towards you now. You don’t want somebody like that chasing after you anyway, so just consider it a blessing that he’s preoccupied doing whatever it is that you don’t have to be concerned with anymore. Just take it one day at a time and remember that you left because what was offered wasn’t good enough for you and it hasn’t changed…
@ Natalie, I am so glad my words have helped you and big, big hugs. xxxx I have been there where morning time is the worst..I don’t think I even listened to music at all those few weeks after-even now I will switch off romantic songs if I hear them on the radio but I find as time goes on I can tolerate them more. It does get better!!!! It does take time but stick to your decision. I know you didn’t want it to be this way, I felt like that too. Sometimes I just ached to even just have a chat with him, even as a friend..but I stuck to my guns because he clearly didn’t value me as much as I did him.
@AngelFace and Lia, thank you so much for your words.
The decision to go NC was the obvious choice for me after some of the things he did (but at the same time is was a very hard one to make if that makes sense)…it was funny I never regarded myself as someone who has a tremendous amount of respect for herself (I’ve made a lot of mistakes in my past that I really beat myself up over) but in the moment I chose to go NC it dawned on me that I did in fact have a lot more respect for myself than I ever thought I had. I’d have to really hate myself to continue engaging with him and I’m proud of how dignified I handled it. Seeing him flirt publicly with a girl online after only a few days was a stab to the heart but it confirmed my decision even more. I said nothing and stuck to NC.
He was the epitome of a Future Faker, I wasn’t a secret, he paraded me like a show pony around his people claiming I was ‘the One’. I’m not sure what’s worse: the humiliation of being the secret or the humiliation you feel when so many play witness to it crashing and burning.
I guess it hard to accept that the guy who once stared into your eyes telling you how much he loved you and would never dream of hurting you can be the same one who wont even look at you or act as even your mere existence is a burden to him.
I no longer keep an eagle eye on my phone waiting for him to call (and confirm he gives/gave a sh*t). I know he won’t call though and yes it is hurtful…but I don’t want him to, not now.
Sam,
Once again you’ve hit the nail on the head with this: I guess it hard to accept that the guy who once stared into your eyes telling you how much he loved you and would never dream of hurting you can be the same one who wont even look at you or act as even your mere existence is a burden to him. This just happened to me today:
I feel relief (and some shame) in admitting I took his call last night. I was thrilled to see it was him. Sadly. He was calling to tell me he had just gotten out of jail. Wow. His ex wife and something with her new boyfriend, yada yada drama drama! He sounded so glad to be talking to me. I convinced myself he must not have been rejecting my calls, he was in Jail! Wow, how sad is that that after a week of feeling like utter garbage, that made me happy? He called me “cutie” and said he would talk to me tomorrow. More to the story, we are in a financial situation together, so he did make mention of that on the phone. But again, I chose to ignore the obvious real reason he was calling, it wasn’t to see how I was doing. I woke up happier knowing I’d talk to him today. Again…just so opposite of the healthy me I want to be! He didn’t call…so I called him. He was again not answering, I had a feeling again rejecting my calls. We have a rental house ‘together’ and the AC is terrible with bills…I’ve moved out a while ago, he owes money to the owners. I told him in a text to please not reject my calls, it’s concerning the money. (in my heart though, just another way for me to justify contact.) I couldn’t stand it anymore, i knew i was playing with HOT FIRE but made the decision to go to the house. I knew he’d be there, and I knew that there was a 99% chance he wouldn’t be alone. Sure enough, new GF was there. He treated me like he’d NEVER EVEN MET ME. SO COLD, when just prior to NC he was telling me he could picture walking down the aisle with me. Hurt like HELL, but I didn’t cry, I had ultimetely done this to myself. He asked me to leave, he only called so I would tell the home owner why his payment was late, all so his new situation upstairs (i could hear her walking around) wouldn’t be any the wiser to who I was or why I was there. I’m not a drama starter, I am not the type to have gone in to tell her who I was and what was really going on, I think he likes having women fight over him. Sadly for her, it’s the beginning of a long list of shady things that will happen while she’s his “GF”. I just kept wanting that validation and sure enough, yet again, he validated my worst fears about him that I saw red flags to in the beginning, but ignored. Now, I’m back on NC after falling off a VERY short wagon ride, and I’m dreading the pain again. All it took was that one phone call from him for the temporary high. Can’t believe how powerful that is. I wanted so badly to believe that I was so much more…
Sam, I remember those feelings, only I’d then have to go into work and see him. You’re doing great and I love the strength and honesty you radiate because you have your moments but you know which way is up. Mr Unavailables will ease their way out cut out when you start to appear to need, want, and expect more than they’re prepared to give. It’s called being expected to deliver on previous action and intention and being expected to be *consistent*. You haven’t abandoned him. I know people who are going through a tough time – they don’t pull that disrespectful, often cruel behaviour. Don’t sweat it and keep looking forward. It’s good to know that he has an ounce of shame. For now. Be thankful that he hasn’t reached out.
NML,
Thank you for your comment. You are so right about Mr. Unavailables. As soon as he realised he had to actually factor someone else (aka: me) into his decision making process *shock, horror* he started to back off. Whether he will eventually contact me or not, I don’t know, he’d have to have some gall now at this stage plus I’m pretty sure that a) he has devalued me enough in his mind to not want to and b) he probably *definitely* has a steady stream of narcisstic harem-ettes to service his egotisical requirements. Either way I don’t care, all he will EVER get from me is silence. 🙂
@Natalie,
I hope you are staying strong back on the NC bandwagon. I’m not going to lie, as I’ve said before those first few weeks ARE tough but there is so much to gain from going NC on these turds i.e. improved self esteem etc… Find distractions. I threw myself into my books, personal improvement and my education after the first week (recently qualified 🙂 ). I know you can do it.
I am trying to be NC but we are trying to move our stuff out of the house and it seems like I HAVE to contact him. Sometimes, I want to contact him so badly that I feel if I don’t, serious damage will be done to my insides. I just can’t handle the lying. I found out the truth when I read his Spanish homework. I had it translated and his bio said that he had “been married for a few years but was in the process of a divorce.” That was news to me. Every time I asked him if he wanted to be with me to work towards staying together he would emphatically say “yes!” He also said he didn’t have any children yet he has been my daughter’s father figure since she was four – she just turned 19. That felt like a slap in the face.
Hi Magda feel your pain, hang in there though. What he has done is horrible because as you rightly identify he has impacted on the life of your child too..all the more reason why you have to get your stuff with as least hassle to you as possible. Is there anyone who can help? An intermediary who can go and get your things, do you actually need it right now or can someone who is in your corner be there for you when you go round?
Getting stuff back can be a torturous thing, it is the finality of the end of the relationship facing us down,but in my experience it’s great for moving towards closure too.
Avoid the fix of wanting to say something to him meaningful, if he is hanging around…keeping dignity intact will help you afterwards.
I wondered if you had downloaded Nat’s NC e mail, there is a specific bit about getting stuff back and keeping yourself in focus whilst doing so.
I hope you stick to NC, you can, all care and love to you.
Magda, it’s difficult to do NC when he’s still moving out. I’d be civil and professional as if you’re colleagues and focus on resolving the practicalities of the situation and when his arse is out of your home, cut him off and don’t look back. He is a complete cad. Hurtful as what you’ve discovered is, be aware that it’s all a performance to him and that he’s playacting at life. Fact is, he can’t be that fricking serious with whoever it is if he’s fabricating a past that’s bound to catch up with him. Also be careful of reading too much into the children comment. Yes it is hurtful but he’s doing the lawyer thing and playing with words. *Technically* his sperm has not created a child so in his eyes, he hasn’t lied. He’ll be saying something to this effect when the woman finds out…
This post was so well expressed; the idea of ‘applications’ running in the background of our NC brains really worked for me. After almost a year and a half of NC I still find on some days that my ‘obsess about the ex’s disgraceful AC behaviour and the ‘why didn’t he want me’ application’ is chuntering away in the background of my mind. Although its only at about a 5% pitch nowadays, it’s annoyingly still there sometimes. Like some other BR readers have expressed, I also find it odd that after such a long time (and with my healthily embedded BR attitudes) the pain and concern that the ex caused can at times still emerge; I wonder if its a kind of post-traumatic shock syndrome we can have due to having been so extremely hurt and consumed with the madness that their mind f***ery causes.
I totally agree with the statement ……The right decision doesn’t always feel good but it doesn’t stop it from being right….. I definitely feel 1000% better for being without an AC (and all his lies to hide his harem coupled with his twisted BS to hide his weaknesses ). The only way to healing is to be rid of AssClownery in all its forms.
Thank you everyone for constantly sharing in the collective healing process.
It’s not an application- it’s a VIRUS. Like Assclownitis or the EUM bug!
Hilarious tired_of_assanova.
Hello Kim! Good to hear from you and congrats! As AC behaviour goes, your ex was a real ratbag and I know how much you struggled with his lies and the mind f*ckery, so I feel like blowing up balloons and throwing a par-tay! I’m so impressed! “I definitely feel 1000% better for being without an AC” – and that is the key Kim. (((hugs)))
Oy. This was me. I was NC for four months, but I did check the email and kept refreshing my text messages. I felt a gleeful vindictiveness when I did get a message and then ignored it. But, boy, was my brain processing constantly about when he was going to try and contact me again. Sadly, I had a major moment of weakness and ended up breaking my long streak of NC and replied to an email. We went back and forth for a few days. In the end, it was my “suck it and see” moment. Nothing.has.changed. N.O.T.H.I.N.G. I did get an apology that he hurt me, which I said thank you to, but inside I was like , it doesn’t fix the problem in the end. And you are still an AC and this is the stupidest email exchange I’ve ever been involved in. *sigh*
Any ladies out there thinking of breaking NC, don’t do it and get out there and live your life. I think if I had not been running that damn AC App in the background of my brain those 4 months, I wouldn’t have weakened.
Oh Natalie, sometimes your posts make me cry and sometimes they make me laugh. This one did both as did the comments by Coffee and Kim and the others. It made me laugh because I finally got what an “app” is. I’m 52 so the new technology and jargon isn’t easy. It made me cry because I believe I’ve had the ExMM app “chuntering away in the background of my mind. Although its only at about a 5% pitch nowadays, it’s annoyingly still there sometimes” as Kim states. Although, I’m not the least bit tempted to text, email or call him, there’s still that annoying chuntering (fabulous word) app. running in the background. It was bad in the first few months of my faux NC. However, it isn’t as bad now. You are so right Natalie: “The right decision doesn’t always feel good but it doesn’t stop it from being right.” I had to laugh at staring down the chocolate swirly deserts. Not a problem for me. Too many calories and carbs. Put a tall, dark, handsome, unavailable, preferable attached male on the plate, that’s a problem for me. They burn calories, carbs, and self-respect and self-esteem.
Hey Runnergirl. Like a fever, it takes a while to sweat out the impact of these people and our own involvement. Your mind will clear. There was a time when it felt like every iota of thought was consumed by my ex when I wasn’t working, then he went into the background, and then he faded into nothing. Now, I have to recall it specifically for the purposes of introspection for writing but I don’t feel away about it. “Put a tall, dark, handsome, unavailable, preferable attached male on the plate, that’s a problem for me. They burn calories, carbs, and self-respect and self-esteem.” Yeah, that used to be my poison too *snigger*
Swear to god, just after I wrote about a tall, handsome guy, I was at Starbucks, minding my own business, getting a cup-o-joe to start the day, and the most gorgeous guy with the most gorgeous eyes looked straight into my eyes as his gf? grabbed him by the arm. I didn’t say a word, ducked, and ran for cover. Thank you Natalie, I’m sweating off the fever. If you ever need help recalling how it feels to be poisoned, I’m here. Nice analogy, again!
Hi CoffeeCat, as you discovered, by remaining connected and invested in this way, it was like conducting your dynamic from a distance so you weren’t really full out of the relationship to grieve it or focus on rebuilding your life. The good thing though is you learned a lot of things from the experience because so many of us think that the angels will sing and the heavens will open when we get an apology – they don’t. It’s not that it’s not nice to get a sorry but it actually has limited closure in something that there are still your own actions to own. That, and the apology won’t turn back time or erase the memory. It’ll just make you feel slightly better about what they’ve done…until you start to wonder if they really meant it or expect them to actually do and be better. At least you’re free now to move on. You sucked, you saw, and he’s not up too much. Still.
Yep, you are soooo right. Doing the right thing does hurt. When I dumped a “friend” of 4 years and an AC that I worked with that was pursuing me and shagging another within the same week. it hurt. It still does. Making lists is a good idea. There’s nothing like reading the words “racist”, “homophobic”, “anti-environmental” among many others to remind me on these cold miserable nights close to the very miserable (for me anyway, with no family or support system besides you out there in electron-land) holidays to remind me that I did the right thing re. my so-called “friend. As for the AC, there is nothing like a long and very clear memory: the sight of him walking down the road after a conference to our hotel with another is a good reminder that going NC was absolutely mandatory, though he works with me. His words, and many of his actions towards me meant absolutely nothing. It is my fault; I took up with both of these clowns due to a very isolated, hostile, social situation that it is not currently possible to leave. Due to this isolation, I befriended someone way outside of what works for me in terms of his belief system, educational level and core values. Yep, I settled. Hate to say it, but sometimes going beyond “type” can blow up in your face. I became very fond of a man I worked with which never, ever, would have occurred had I been anywhere else where there were options other than nothing. Weird stuff like this never occurred before I had to take a job out West. At one level I understand I deserve all this hurt. Conversely, I often feel like someone being severely punished for something she did not do. Too bad one cannot shut off the part of the brain that feels and just plain learn to not feel anything until you can get to a better place. BTW, as I follow the old ways and am not Christian, I want to wish you all a Happy Solstice and hope that next year is a better one for all of us.
It’s all the same light Miskwa. Being alone in a strange place does open us up to things we would never do when in comfortable places. I did it too. Won’t again. Being close to nature as you are and being hooked into the internet you will find peace. Take care…it’s all about the learning and keeping heart. You don’t deserve hurt, it’s just part of the process and the risk you take to love and care. Worth it? Damn straight.Blessed Be.
Miskwa, I just want to reach out via cyberspace and say hello. Hello! It must be terribly difficult given your phyiscally isolated circumstances. I’m not sure where you are located geographically but it is cold here too, although maybe not as cold as where you are. Additionally, I’m not physically isolated but I feel isolated. I’m still dealing with the fact that it doesn’t much matter whether it is cold night or a warm humid night, the guy I was with (a MM) wasn’t actually there. I keep staring at my decision to go NC but what I keep seeing is a guy I invented and imagined.
It’s all better after the Solstice! Here’s to longer days and more sun! My best to you…
That’s some list Miskwa. These are people who do not add any value to your life and in fact are doing and being things that are seriously in conflict with your own values system.
You don’t ‘deserve’ all of this hurt though. You don’t. Yes you’ve made choices and yes you have your own part to own, but you don’t *deserve* the hurt. These experiences are not ‘punishments’ for trying to love but unfortunately the hurt and sometimes other repercussions are the by products. They’re still 100% responsible for their behaviour, so all you can do now is distance yourself, even if you are working in the same place and take protective and preventative measures.
Stop seeing this as a punishment and start seeing it as an experience that didn’t work out because you’re all incompatible. That’s not punishment – it’s just life. Let your feelings flow – they’ll hurt initially and then it will pass. Happy Solstice to you also.
I am ready to share after reading this blog for about seven months. After having tried NC 3x in almost a year, last week I pushed through the two month mark that I usually cave in on. I reached a point where I couldn’t deny that the whole debacle really was about my own insecurities from a loveless childhood (abuse and my mother putting men first) and how that affected my confidence in my career aspirations. I don’t usually go for EUMs but since I’m in a challenging life transition in a new city, it was a way to avoid dealing with going deep inside myself by focusing on him. Yes, he had a part in it and took advantage of my vulnerability, but now I know that they’re always options – and I deserve to explore them. Working on myself and practicing positive self-awareness is what ultimately led to sticking with a decision – not finding a new 6-7 inches to put space between us . 🙂
I’m done with snooping on FB to see if he’s having fun without me, wondering if he misses me, and all the analyzing! I’ve been focusing on my spiritual side through meditation and have met some amazing, supportive people and it feels wonderful to just share being human. I’ve also stopped making excuses for not attending grad school and have been applying to UCLA. I’ve also accepted that this is where I am at and that’s okay. It feels wonderful to heal my heart and develop new sides of myself.
Thank you Natalie and to all the women on here for all your hard work and openness! I definitely still think about it – in fact just two weeks ago I was making up all kinds of tormenting stories after seeing a girl and him flirting on FB, but after pushing through that I realize it doesn’t matter at all in the big picture. I have a feeling I will run into him this Friday at a music event and I’m envisioning myself not bothered at all and handling it well. And only a tiny part of me will actually be faking it. It’s been a tough road but I’m grateful it all happened, because falling that low is what pushed me through the mud to blossom, just like the lotus flower that I am. I hope you all see yourselves the same way soon.
Hi Lotus Flower. I think moving to a new place seems to catch quite a few people out with unavailable relationships. As with Miskwa, part of your mindset in this situation is your response to being in a new environment. When we’re eager for company, sometimes on any terms, there’s always an unavailable around ready to fit the bill. Then as you get to know them, you see the major differences that exist between you both, only if you haven’t met other people, you may try to override your own concerns. Well done to you for cutting the Facebook habit and keep imagining yourself cool, calm, and confident. You can handle it and you can certain handle seeing him.
===The right decision doesn’t always feel good but it doesn’t stop it from being right.===
this statement reminds me what a friend one day told me, “there is a difference between what is right and what is fair” and sometimes going NC it might seem not fair (because we didn’t get closure) but it is the right thing to do. And yes it hurts sometimes too in the short term but will be better on the long term.
Absolutely Allie. Absolutely.
“Have a plan. Make a list of all of the reasons why you made the decision and any time your resolve weakens, consult the list – so many people have used the NC checklist from the NC mail to validate their concerns. Having evidence gives strength to what you’ve already done – made a decision.”
Never thought of a list before…
1. The most obvious is: he is married.
2. He is emotionally unavailable.
3. He doesn’t like to phone and that is important to me.
4. He often says he’ll do XYZ and won’t.
5. When I told him I was in love with him, he “disappeared” after telling me how amazing I was and saying he had to “think now”. He must have thought himself into a dead coma.
6. He smokes cigarettes and chews tobacco. Ew.
7. It was always about when it was convenient for him to get together or chat.
8. He would say he did not want to lead me on but then “ooze” how he felt about me or say other things that probably would have been better kept to himself.
9. Even after he knew I wanted more than “friends,” he still engaged me.
I needed this this afternoon. I had a weird moment where I considered texting him. I didn’t. Instead I played with this new gadget that came in the mail.
That’s what I have so far. Interesting seeing that in print.
Colororange, #1 on its own is a cease and desist. Keep playing with new gadgets or whatever you need to do but stop fighting the topline information – he’s married. Everything else on your list, even if you fixed them, wouldn’t matter because he’s married.
I can’t remember what post it was Nat, but you once said (and I paraphrase): at some point being NC won’t be about being NC, you’ll just be living your life. That’s so key and that’s what kept me NC and moving forward. I remember counting the days of NC on a calendar that was also filled up with school and work and dates with friends and family and alone time. I was adamant, stubbornly so (I finally put my stubborness to work FOR ME, hehe) to get to that tipping point you were talking about. And it happened. I’m not sure when it happened but it happened and I’m living my life, not living NC. Having a plan was crucial. It kept me focused on what I wanted to do instead of what I didn’t want to do (ie. contact him, break NC…). It didn’t feel good, at all, at the time because as you said I was so used to having to have it feel “right” – but having something feel “right” is only relative to the very wonky scale I was using to feel “right”. For me I actually had to do what didn’t feel good for a long while to see that it was the right thing to do. Thanks Natalie!
This is a clip from the show “My So-Called Life” that used to come on in the 90s in the states. 1:10-2:34 of this clip reminds me of what you just wrote about the tipping point of No Contact. I actually remember watching this and cracking up because I knew exactly how she felt. It can seem like you’re in agony while you’re going through it. And even though it seems like you’re taking super small baby steps away from that person, you are nevertheless taking steps away from them. If you are actually making progress, one day you’ll look up and find yourself not longing for them at all. And when you get there, you won’t even remember when you stopped wanting them, because you’ve been so busy living your own life and dealing with the people and things that are truly important.
I had to laugh when I read that you were putting your stubbornness to work for yourself, as I am also stubborn and had to learn to make that work for me. Actually, your whole post could have been a diary entry of my own LOL, as I also remember literally counting the days, and eventually I stopped counting too. Good to know that you also made it out alive from one of these situations SNH 🙂
Absolutely snh and your comment is testament to the power of No Contact. Being truly committed to it does mean that once you relax into yourself and your own life, you do come to forget about being NC. “it didn’t feel good, at all, at the time because as you said I was so used to having to have it feel “right” – but having something feel “right” is only relative to the very wonky scale I was using to feel “right”.” Amen.
I’ve been NC for about a month. I’m doing better, but the hard part is seeing the AC at church every week. I do my best to avoid him but on Sunday he said a chipper “Good morning” to me and it was all I could do to stop myself from punching him. I responded “good morning” back and kept walking. The wound is reopened every week, although this week it wasn’t quite as bad, so I guess that’s good. Sometimes I feel tempted to break NC but so far I’ve been able to stop myself. I know it’s the right decision but it sure ain’t easy, especially when I’m alone and feeling sorry for myself.
Oh I would absolutely hate that. Since he’s gonna speak to you anyways you might as well respond by telling him that he shouldn’t. It’s all good to be polite and cordial, but there’s no point in pretending that you actually want to speak to him. Just because you walk through those sanctuary doors does not mean that you lose all that makes you human, we were created this way for a reason, and if you wouldn’t want to talk to him on the street it’s more than understandable that you wouldn’t want to do so in church. Trust me, I’m sure Jesus(0r whoever you worship) understands…
Heartache Amy, I wouldn’t waste your time. It’s about time you asked yourself what you’re tempted to break NC for? To let him know that you’re there? He knows this. To try to convince him out of his marriage? Undignified and boundary crossing. To tell him about himself? Been there, done that, what’s the point? To avoid facing your own feelings about your divorce or accepting that the fantasy of this man is over? Bingo.
It’s also important not to give a greeting that much power. You don’t actually have to say good morning or actually “morning” takes the chipper off it, especially if you’re polite but not friendly.
Church is not for making and being friends with assholes.
I don’t know, I have seen an ex before and not even acknowledged his existence, even when spoken to. I didn’t care how it made me look or how it made him feel. I just acted like I couldn’t hear or see him. LOL! Is that bad??! (Rhetorical question.)
Oh, the planets are aligning! Let me see if I can put it down: little Magnolia decides somewhere along the line that only perfection, or being “the best,” will do. The fantasy of “success” sustains her through a rough childhood and youth, but by young adulthood it has become an escape that’s easier than learning how to build relationships.
Cue all kinds of addictive behaviours that feed into that dream of “making it big” that’s always out of reach: workaholism, some substance use, an attraction to men who seem to have made it. Also, on the flip side, an addiction to the victim story to try to justify to myself why I haven’t made it big yet.
Add into the mix a world where all kinds of people do the same thing, and will reward you for workaholism and competitiveness, and look down on you smugly for not being one of “the best”.
Who wouldn’t want to escape, escape, escape from a catch-22 where you’re either the best constantly (impossible) or worthless?
This week will mark a year since my ex stopped trying to contact me after tracking me down in a coffee shop and me saying go away. Since then, I haven’t exactly wiped him from my internal newsreel: he still has gotten all kinds of play. But seeing the parallels between turning to thoughts of him (which this post does well to remind me is not much better than turning to him in the flesh), and turning to other compulsive behaviours, has been eyeopening.
It’s no easy task to quit the drugs of one’s own thoughts: unhelpful beliefs, fantasies, what-ifs and if-onlys. But I think there is no horizon beyond that. If we can conquer our own emotional addictions (to drama, to superiority, to victimization, to shame) then the material ones (to food, substances, money, inappropriate men) should take care of themselves.
Now when I have thoughts of him and his money, I know I’m craving beauty, connection, stability, relationship, organization, confidence, peace and calmness. I can think of other things that provide those a lot better than he ever did!!
BR is one!
Thanks for writing this, Mags. It’s a light for me.
Thank you Magnolia for putting your thoughts (and mine) into words. Your onto something here.
After giving it more thought today, I have to add that I also have a bit of a hard time saying no to myself. It’s weird, as a kid, I was praised for not having needs and “understanding” that we didn’t have money, and that basically whatever I wanted, we couldn’t afford it.
Tonight I wandered in to the department store and did something I’ve never done before. I stared at the jewelry in the cases and asked myself if I liked any of it; if I wanted any of it. I almost started bawling right there in the Bay. This angry little voice inside was like, how dare you ask me what I want, when you can’t buy it for me? And the whole store felt like a big, cruel display of what some women get from their men.
I support myself. Always have. Most of my life I’ve done so by not wanting, not needing anything. These shoes? Vintage – i.e. second-hand. This sweater? Had it for ten years, etc. Lately I feel reckless. Though I am not in debt, every now and then I buy something totally impulsively because “I deserve it,” then usually feel bad about it. So much guilt.
As I headed home after looking at the jewelry, I felt the angry urge to “smoke an effing j” (which I’d regret later) or “eat some effing chips” (which I would also regret). Fortunately, “call up that effing AC” is no longer an option, but you get the drift.
I’ve got to get closer to myself, treat myself well and also give myself treats. I want to be able to say “no” to myself without feeling like I’m depriving myself, without feeling like I’m telling my inner child that she is still with poor caretakers who won’t/can’t give her what she wants. Sometimes the right decision is to not eat those chips, or not buy that pretty thing, or not call that guy, but I get very resentful around feeling “forced” to act in my own best interest.
My inner child just hates me, in a way – not for not buying her a tennis bracelet – but for not being able to buy her/myself my own tennis bracelet. What kind of loser am I, when even stupid ACs can shower me with gifts?
But what’s the real problem? Not being able to afford a tennis bracelet, or not being able to handle not being able to afford a tennis bracelet? Hmm.
(BTW, I had some effing organic popcorn with a side of effing yogurt asiago cheese dressing. Yum.)
Wow reading this was like looking into a mirror. I am always at odds with my inner child. Having the desire to spoil her and give into her whims because she’s had such a rough and negligent upbringing and then desiring to do the right thing for her, which sometimes not giving into her whims and wants. Facing down the petulant inner child is very difficult though…
She is very stubborn.
Hi Magnolia, I read your comment as I was walking back from the school run and I felt like clapping. It’s shared insights like yours that make what I do so rewarding because you are one of those people that even though it may reveal things that make you uncomfortable, you are constantly striving to have a more honest view of yourself. You in fact are striving to be authentic. I often see some of myself in you, especially as there are some parallels between our backgrounds and experiences. I definitely went through a reckless phase which I think was a bit like an “Up yours, I can do whatever I want and give myself anything I desire”. As I’ve gotten older I’ve become more ‘restrained’. You have tapped into the core of the issue in this post – feeling bad about having to say NO to yourself which in turn looks like deprivation and denial, when in fact, it’s just saying No and acting in your best interests. “I get very resentful around feeling “forced” to act in my own best interest.”
And there you have it.
You see, many people who do NC or have boundaries, are very resentful about it. It’s like an inconvenience. They associate being happy and giving themselves everything they want, we having no limits, avoiding conflict, not saying NO. In their minds, they don’t want to deny themselves so they focus on the reward of getting what they appear to want while at the same time hating how they get to it or what happens afterwards. These same people, in turn then feel bad about denying their aggressors access or saying NO, because they have such a negative association with it, that they don’t want to do for others what they don’t want to do for themselves.
Oh and the popcorn sounds delightful! Nom nom. My thing right now is brie and rice crackers.
These comments made me think about my “epiphany” moment with the biggest AC I encountered. No BR at the time but after him, I was like, “This is it!” I quit smoking (he was a smoker and I associated cigarettes with him), I said I was no longer eating unhealthy food, and no more bad penis! I was no longer allowing anything “unhealthy” to enter my body AGAIN!! I went on a 3 year dating hiatus after that and have improved (not perfected) boundaries and have been smoke free ever since. The food thing … well … LOL … It was defining moment for me for sure.
Ah! Light bulb!
“They associate being happy and giving themselves everything they want, we having no limits, avoiding conflict, not saying NO.”
That’s why I am so pissed about leaving the AC to his life of luxury. There was an aspect of it, if you didn’t look too closely and rode on the surface, of never having to say no to oneself. While I was with him he bought a 1.7 mil house, paid cash for two cars, flew me to the Caribbean and a number of other places, took me regularly to dinner at places that now, I can only walk by and wonder if I’ll ever eat there again. He never said no to himself. And he seemed to offer me the same lifestyle.
But the underside of that is actually pretty horrific. He also wouldn’t say no to himself around the attentions of new women, stealing employees from friends, lying to get something he wanted, expressing irritation with me etc. I always had the sense that his $$ was there to try to cover these insatiable urges, which he felt were his right to have, and I never trusted that he really could say a healthy no. The reality of what that meant, of him having no impulse control and thinking he needed none, finally slapped me upside the head when I saw him make excuses and rationalizations for exposing himself to an eleven-year-old girl.
I would spend time with him, feel good, then awful, then be on my own for a day or two in my ‘normal,’ tightly budgeted world and want to go back to his world of no limits.
I also remember feeling that he would taunt me by showing me he could buy things that I wanted, but was saving up for, in a moment’s impulse. He did that to me when we were shopping for a bike for me. And on the day we broke up, he presented me with a guitar that is far more expensive than I’d ever realistically choose to give myself. Sounds nice, but it felt like a punch in the gut.
Smashing the ‘inconvenience’ of a limit sounds like the ideal but it’s actually terrifying to feel there is no limit at all. All the pretty stuff in the world was no appeasement for feeling as though my life would be centred around him never having to deny himself. I guess that’s why it’s also said that growing up, even if they throw a tantrum, kids do want to learn limits and feel the love of their parents enforcing those limits. Thanks for the connection!
Hey there Magnolia, hold the phone…he exposed himself to a child? Did I read that right? If so, I’m counting your lucky stars for you. Big hugs to you for one year AC-free. Your comment conjured up images of my father’s voyeristic/child porn criminal behavior and how he is probably still perpetrating his crimes.
On another note, your comment and Natalie’s response created a ton of self-reflection regarding my childhood deprivation and my adulthood resentment of having to say no to me, even when it is in my best interest. Making the right decision, even when it feels bad, triggers childhood deprivation issues including not having shiny bobbles as well as emotional support. BTW, I’ve always wanted a tennis bracelet too. I’d probably lose it in 24 hours though. Your description of looking at the jewerly really struck home. I’ve done it too. It all seems so sparkly, too expensive, and I don’t feel worth it even if I could afford it, which I can’t. Note to self: Need to work on self- worth and maybe save up to buy a sparkly bobble?
Most importantly, your comments made me start to address what is happening with my daughter (22). I can’t say no to her even though it may be in her best interest. I’ve sunk so far into debt financing her education. Since I had to work and pay for every cent of my education, I want her to have the monetary and emotional support I never had. She is doing so great in school, almost straight A’s as an undergrad, and is described by one of her professors as “scary smart”, and she loves school. No drugs, no pregancies, no legal problems that I know of. Just a great college kid involved totally in college.
I still don’t seem to have a compass of when enough is enough when it comes to my daughter or men. I’m closer now to addressing my issues with men. Thank you for the connection between childhood deprivation issues and the difficulty making the right decision in adulthood. That is a tremendous connection for me.
This is such an incredible, amazing group of folks. I appreciate you all. In fact, I’m more connected to you all than 90% of the people I see. Of course, thank you Natalie. You have brought such an amazing group of people world-wide together. However, I am disappointed there are AC’s in Greece and Australia. I thought it was perfect there!
Turning down things that do let us feel good in the moment but give us a longer hangover, is us acting in our own best interests.
In our last phone conversation which he was desperately trying to get things back on an even keel. I was talking too much etc.
He ended the conversation with the reset button. He told me he would call me (December) and arrange to meet me for dinner.
Accepting this invitation (should he call of course) would make me feel good in the moment, but once the dinner has ended I know I would feel bad thinking I’m not good enough, he won’t call again even though he says he will, he will be with someone else just like this year, but he won’t tell me he will want me to chase him.
That long term low won’t be worth that small high. I’ve been at the crack a long time now.
Tulipa
Please I beg you don’t go to dinner with him. Or wait for him to call.
How long has this clown been in your life (or rather pissing about on the periphery?) You’re in danger of giving over yet ANOTHER YEAR to him. It’s too much already!
You have to make a decision – not just wait around for a man to call you. In that, I have to agree with the silly Rules book. It’s beneath your dignity.
You tried being his girlfriend ( I think), you tried FWBs, now you’re trying friendship. It’s time to give it up.
I don’t care if he’s the reincarnation of the young Marlon Brando, he’s not worth it.
Yeah, those highs get you up there and you’re feeling “oh, this is going to last. Oh, this is it, he’ll live up to the greatness I perceive him to be.” Then doooowwwwnnnn ya go sliding down the slippery slope into near fatal disappointment. That low that seems to last indefinitely all to chase after that momentary high yet again. That high of him following through, saying something sweet and like he’s going to be with you THIS time. But no. It’s as if he says “psych!!!! Juuuuust kiddin!!!!!”
Yes, I hear you.
That is the part I’m don’t know what to do about. I know not to go to dinner with him that small fleeting high will only last for a moment. But I can’t or don’t want to call him to say I don’t want to have dinner this year has been the only year where he has said I will call you etc. and hasn’t done it, so he may not call me now. So I guess in a way I am waiting for the call.
If I have him in my life I will hit the 5 year mark in February and I definately don’t have another year to waste nor do I want to waste more time.
@ Colororange we will survive and be better for it I’m sure about that. I’m sure you have found too that the high is not as good as it once was nor does it last as long each time they come back or we go back.
Thanks for the laugh.
Tulipa
Five years! It’s worse than I thought. That’s half a decade. Women have met someone, got married and had a child in less time than that.
Drop him already. Don’t pick up his calls, don’t respond to his text, no FB-ing, no e-mails, no drive-bys.
Don’t worry about “ignoring him”. What’s he been doing to you for five years? Insofar as he cares at all, he’ll just say to himself “Man,finally, Tulipa has got her act together”.
You don’t have to call him to tell him you’re not doing something. Fill your life with other things.
Have you tried knitting? I’m making a sweater. If it takes me five years I’ll know that knitting is not for me.
Tulipa,
The waiting is painful. It’s annoying not wanting to wait yet wanting to wait and that confusion. I know even as I type this I still wonder if ex MM will call/text/email. Maybe what I said to him the last time pissed him off or pushed him away……I do not know. All I know is he said he needed to think, think about what I am not sure. It’s hard because I can be around this man and be perfectly content not sleeping with him (we never slept together). I can enjoy his company and it’s nice. BUT, the emotional roller coaster of wondering what’s going to happen next and OMG what did I do/say wrong now!?! has worn me plumb out. Truthfully, this effin sucks. I drew my boundary when I chose to leave him alone and keep on my side of the fence. He knows how I feel about him and I have a good sense how he feels about me. For me it’s a constant finding a preoccupation to completely have my mind on other things. I may never hear from him again. I do take comfort in finally just telling him how I felt and he can do with that what he will. In the mean time, as hard as it may be, just for this minute, I focus on me even if there’s a nagging wondering in the background if he’ll ever contact me. I figure if I keep focusing on me, eventually the rest will fade out.
Oh yes I remember the roller coaster ride was fun for a few months, but that was about it.
I have done no contact in the past and it is true my no contact phases went well when I was busy and concentrated on me, shame he contacted me before it took root and I was back in over one text.
You can now move on Colororange you are right he has the infomation needed and he can fade away 😀
Grace, your comment about knitting made me laugh I hope you and knitting do get along.
And the relief that I can just ignore him of course I can.
Here’s to 2012 and new hobbies and one with no chasing unavailable men.
Tulipa, do you know what stubborn means? Having a dogged determination not to change your attitude or position on something, in spite of good arguments and reasons to do so. (source Oxford Dictionary).
You are refusing to back down. You’re a protestor with your placard but I don’t think you even know anymore what the hell you’re protesting about! You just want to be ‘right’ at the expense of yourself and the fact is, hard as it may be to hear, you’re humiliating yourself by tailspinning yourself over crumbs.
Think about it – is all of ‘this’ worth it over a phone conversation and meeting for dinner. FIVE.YEARS. Tulipa. Is this all that it’s coming down to? Worrying about some poxy dinner where you give him permission to press the reset button and then worry in advance about feeling bad about it? Oh heeeelll no! I’ve had two kids in five years, become self-employed, traveled, made new friends, enjoyed old friends, taken up new hobbies, rediscovered old passions, stretched myself and the list goes on.
Has your outlook changed from the beginning to now?
Has your relationship grown positively from the beginning to now?
Has this relationship changed in the last month, three months, six, nine, twelve months? Two, three, four years?
If how you see things, especially this relationship, has not changed and grown during this period, you are wasting.
If your situation has not emotionally and physically improved over these periods, you are wasting your own time. You will have severe regrets if you continue. You can nip this in the bud now.
Stubbornness and pride comes before a fall. You must know when to wind your neck in and suck it up. Any fear you have about losing and being wrong is a waste – you’ve already lost and been wrong about this man so what you fear has already passed and happened. You are free – it’s just that you persist in imprisoning yourself in a prison of your own making that isn’t even locked.
Tulipa, it’s time for you to pull your shit together. You would never and could never be happy with someone who you had to behave so desperately in order to even get some pathetic crumbs.
If only you applied your dogged determination to yourself in a positive manner, you could achieve wonderful things.
I think I can say I have been more than stupid.
I didn’t even work out he was in a relationship and if I had or if he had told me I would be way ahead of myself this year.
I can’t change what has happened I can now only choose to go forward and put the placard away.
I can truthfully say other areas of my life have not been so stagnant as the relationship area of my life. Though I’m very pleased with myself that I have turned down dates using my knowledge of BR. I could see the red flags waving from the get go and knew better than to get involved.
The prison comment got me thinking about my past and in some way I have always lived in a prison in fact when I was younger I used to think serving prison time would be easy for me because living at home seemed liked serving a prison sentence, I couldn’t walk out then and sometimes I truly think I forget that now I can just walk out.
You are right it is time to be positive about me and do more for me.
….”The right decision doesn’t always feel good but it doesn’t stop it from being right”. Thanks for that one Nat. For me the holiday season has always been the toughest to keep NC. Your words saved me again from making a huge mistake.
I loved the “Application” analogy, the only one I’m going to keep running in my head is the “NC” one.
Amen and hugs to you MaryC. Don’t make the holidays all about your ex – this is a time to focus on the things that matter, not to feel bad or even nostalgic about a jackass.
This may sound off-topic but from my experience, going NC and snooping around on facebook or any social network can really really hinder healing. That’s one thing I’ve realized. Plus being with a narcissist who plays mind games via facebook can make you go crazy, for me I knew that I was turning into a narcissist too to keep up with him. I just knew that in order to heal, I had to forget he ever existed, and for my own good, go on a social networking diet and a man diet. What helped me acknowledge this was looong time ago, I had a “serious” crush when I was about 16 or 17, I liked this guy for about 3 years and never thought I’d forget him, fantasized about him every day, didn’t help that we were in the same classes. But I moved to a different school and all of a sudden, I started to think less and less about him. The good part then was that social networking was pretty much unheard of, I realize today how difficult moving on is when there’s real time feed of a person’s life being fed to you. But even when I’ve pretty much quit all virtual forms of social networking and focused more on being around people, I still think about him and I am tempted to fantasize- “just you wait, there will come a time when I’m going to find someone better than you, and I’m living a fantastic life…and you’re going to realize what you gave up”. Not good because I’m thinking about him instead of reality and the things around me and actually building a fantastic life for myself. But on the other hand there are times when I think about him and I realize, how stupid I have been to have actually believed him or what the F was I thinking when I called him 14 times to apologize. This is the reality and I force myself to understand that I only did that because he kept “punishing” me in really passive aggressive ways and I decided to reinforce his passive aggressiveness, AND I’m glad I no longer have to deal with someone like that. Most important of all, I will not repeat that ever again. Everyday I have a new epiphany about how distorted my idea of love was. It’s been over a month, I am getting to know myself more everyday and how I deal with situations without his influence, I know a lot of women hate being alone, but like my mom always tells me, learning to enjoy your own company will never make you lonely. ? Stay strong and stick to your priorities.
S
It’s not off topic. if we’re snooping on FB, it’s not really NC.
With the MM, I didn’t see him more than once, we didn’t have sex or kiss or hold hands, we didn’t phone, all we did was flippin text. Then it was flippin FB, then I broke it off but kept FB stalking him.
In the end I had to block him. When I blocked him I burst into tears like a drama queen – and then within SECONDS I started to feel a million times better. Haven’t looked back since. I have the power!
It’s not just about getting rid of a clown, it’s about realising that you can make a decision for yourself and stick to it. That’s the ultimate freedom and privelege we have as human beings. It’ s a very sad state of affairs to give that up for someone who doesn’t even want you.
BTDT. Except I didn’t feel better, I felt awful. After I deleted the guy on FB, I felt so bad, I sent him an apology and an invite to reconnect three days later, thank god he ignored it. There was one last social site where I still stayed connected to him for four months — one of those places where you track the things you watch, read, and listen to — I thought it was no big deal to stay connected on that one. A few weeks ago, I finally realized that even this connection was toxic — any time he’d post an update, I’d be reminded of him. If I’d deleted him, though, he’d still have been listed as following me, which would’ve still sucked me in and made me check for updates and potentially start following him again. So, instead of deleting the guy, I deleted and recreated my whole account. HA! 🙂 Felt good — like I’d finally cut that damn cord! I still miss seeing his updates from time to time, but, frankly, his tastes in books, movies and music sucked, so I’m better off. Having him on my FB friend list, now that was pure poison. Each time his update would show up in my feed, with all his female friends liking and commenting on it, it made me backslide. Good thing I ended that early. Though, like I said, it did feel terrible.
Thanks for sharing S and you are right that what basically amounts to stalking someone on Facebook will hinder your progress. What we have to recognise as part of our own emotional honesty, is when a situation is impacting us. Social networking isn’t social or networking if it creates a great deal of anxiety or headache. If you’re not getting a genuinely positive benefit from it or seeing someone’s pathetic passive aggressive let me advertise myself updates is winding you up, you have to cut yourself off from the source of the pain…not keep looking at it.
Well done for facing what is going on here and owning your own actions so that you can break this cycle and his hold on you. No man that has you calling 14 times to apologise is ever going to be the man for you anyway.
I like the idea of keeping busy & even scheduling out the first 2 weeks of NC. I find that when I’m tired (I work Hard.), and when I’m tired& alone, that I can think of him. I’m 7 weeks NC and over last weekend I really wanted to call him. I didn’t., and I’m not going to. So, for the next weekend and the couple following that I will schedule them in advance – just to be safe & happy.
Also, last week I was fortunate enough to work in the Netherlands and I was in Amsterdam and Rotterdam. People there seemed very happy and content, and I saw many couples out together. I hear that the ratio of men to women is higher… maybe it is the social behavior of the people there to? But I liked the vibe.
I also refer to my mental list of all the horrible things my x is and did, and that keeps me from breaking NC. I think I will go sing Country karaoke this Wed night & shake up my work week schedule a bit…. hmmm, maybe the fushia sweater dress?! Maybe a Heineken to toast the Dutch people whom I now admire 🙂
My brother lives in Amsterdam and while he works very hard, he loves it out there and it’s very social. I think it is helped by the fact that he works for an American company that has staff from all over the world, so creating a social environment that allows them to feel included and happy is important. Keep referring to your list AngelFace and go an enjoy karaoke (love it!) – basically keep enjoying life.
Nat — i made the for REAL NC move almost a year ago. I told him basically unless he had a personality transplant, not to contact me.
We live in a population of 10, 000. I work in a store that is the only one around providing a particular service. I love my job. But he and I shared an interest in the hobby the store services and so he was, and is, a regular customer. He comes in once a day, on average. Sometimes more.
I treat him as politely and cooly as any other “bothersome” customer. But as soon as he walks in my stomach drops out, my heart races, and i lose my concentration. I feel shaky,even. Some days he attempts small talk, which i don’t engage in, and some days he seems cold toward me and two days last week he glared at me and seemed very angry (for no reason i know of) and then today back to trying small talk.
I know i’m having a physical/emotional reaction caused by his presence because i must have some ingrained belief i’m not aware of. (?!) I am not interested in him as friend, foe or lover, if i never saw him again it’d be fine. I’m not even angry with him, i don’t think about him, it’s so over.
but yet as i said, i spin off into a mini anxiety attack when he comes in.
HOW TO DEAL?! what’s going on?? and also, should i do anything? i think just treating him like a customer is best. With a bit of a cool edge, no small talk like i do with the other customers. Any other advice?
Hi yoshizzle,
It doesn’t sound as though you’re totally over him if you have a little panic attack once he leaves. I’m not saying you want to get back together with him, it just sounds as though his presence still bothers you. In some ways, I think you just give it time – go to the back of the store when he comes in or something.
My ex-AC from before last lived three doors down from me after messing me psychologically, and for months just seeing him would make me feel dissociative and sick. Within a year or so I just found it extremely unpleasant to see him. The other day (three years later) he came to an event I host and I found myself treating him like any other guest – grabbing him a chair, grabbing his gf a chair, asking if they were comfy, then moving on and attending to everyone else.
He actually seemed sort of relieved, like I was ‘not angry’ anymore and talking to him again, and if somewhere in his machiavellian reptile brain he thinks he’s forgiven, then whatev, I don’t care. He’s right; he’s forgiven. Doesn’t mean we’re new besties or anything.
I’d just tell yourself it will take some time, it may be unpleasant to see him, but eventually you will be really over it, and when he comes in and leaves it won’t register. You can’t really rush that.
yes, i also sensed strongly that this guy felt he was “forgiven” the very first time he came in and saw me working there. Bcuz i was polite, businesslike, and pleasant. He immediately leaned up on the counter and was all happy., I didnt care, i just kept working, not engaging. He , i am quite sure ….and tell me if you agree, NAT, …i am pretty sure he mistook my professional polite demeanor…for forgiveness…and then immediately pressed the RESET BUTTON and has acted that way ever since.
Yoshizzle, imagine yourself as a door, that you’ve now closed and locked. Your jackass ex comes along and tries to open the door, but discovers that his key doesn’t work. He keeps trying it but no result. He has a root around and pulls out a selection of keys that he knows used to work on you. Still nothing. He comes back another day and tries to jimmy the lock with hairpin. Another day he tries with a credit card. Another day he kicks at it furiously and you’re near crapping yourself and feeling you should cave in and unlock, but you hold your ground. The next time, he tries the gentle and polite approach with the door, maybe pressing the doorbell, trying to look through the letterbox. The time after that he serenades you or leaves flowers or rat droppings (snigger). Then he gets pissed off again that the door isn’t open so he tries to take a hammer to it. Maybe he kicks at it, thumps the crap out of it, or stands a few feet away throwing rocks and hoping you’d be intimidated. You’re scared and wondering why the hell he’s doing this. He then tries a calmer approach to the door. Then gets frustrated again. And lather, rinse, repeat.
He is being tactical to break down your defences to get you to ‘open the door’. He doesn’t want you; he just wants to win.
What you don’t do is open the door.
Whoa. That’s one hell of an analogy, but when you put it that way you can’t really see it for anything other than what it is.
Natalie, Your response to Yoshizzle helped me today. Yesterday, my most recent ex ( pretty boy alcoholic) showed up at the same beach as me and although he didn’t approach me, he came pretty close to me and waved. I waved and then turned my back to him, but my heart was going a mile a minute and I felt sick to my stomach. I have been NC for 5 months, asked him to leave me alone the last time he approached me, and have ignored any attempt of his to try to talk to me (text messages, how original). He stared at me the whole time and then left a note on my car saying he looked forward to talking to me soon, then sent me two text messages with pointless messages, like, “hope you enjoy the sunset.” I ran into him again same day when he showed up at yet another place I was and parked near me. I ignored him. Although NC has been the right thing for me and I won’t break it, my physical reaction to being 50 feet away from him was not fun. I can relate to Yoshizzle. Your comparison to someone trying all kinds of ways to open the locked door made me laugh and lighten up a bit. I realize I am giving him too much power over my emotions. Now I picture him with a tool box prodding around for my weakness. I just added another mental lock to my door. And it’s time to put another block on my phone…..it expires every 90 days.
NML
Or:
“I’ll huff and I’ll puff and I’ll blow your house down!”
Yosh
Let him huff and puff – you’re built of strong stuff, not straw. Be as polite as necessary. Otherwise ignore.
“He just wants to win.”
Being where I am now, I see how I was just like the EU men I was involved with throughout the years. Though at the time I thought I LOVED them. Once it was “reciprocated” and I use the term loosely, they just weren’t as attractive.
Once we get the focus OFF these guys and onto US, we aren’t that different, girls.
Goes back to that being RIGHT. Let it go!! Love is not a battle.
Lo J
Absolutely. It sticks in our throats to admit it, but we’re like them. We may not be as ass-like but we sure are indecisive, back-and-forth, hot-and-cold, having sex with men we’re not sure about, going back on our decisions, second-guessing ourselves, breaking up and going back, changing our minds, starting NC, stopping NC, breaking NC, living a fantasy, ignoring the truth, not living up to our own standards.
These things are EU behaviour just as much as his.
holy CRAP!!! first off…”WIN”…win WHAT?! he doesn’t want me. he just wants, i’m fairly sure, narcissistic supply. This is one of the stores he goes into to have social conversation bcuz he doesn’t have friends or anyone else. He does the same thing to my best friend who works in the OTHER store he goes into….we are forgettable ppl to him, he just needs someone to talk about himself to. Now ME, ok, i’m not so forgettable, but i’m certainly disposable. Perhaps he’s angry that he cannot squeeze any attention from me whatsoever. Perhaps that’s all he cares to win. Perhaps he really is angry he can’t get it… i never thought of that: that he’s glaring and pissy because he gets the same cool , uninterested, polite treatment every single time no matter what!It seemed he was furious with me for no apparant reason, but that sounds like a reason. wow… that’s effed up…but again, i’m beyond even believing fully ANYthing about this alien . THat could well be it, and i’ll do just what i planned on: nothing. Because, there IS nothing I want to do.
I think I feel shaky not because i want anything from him..but bcuz being around a (narcissist) person who might at any moment cut you off completely, or rage at you, or whatever, is actually traumatizing. Even though I was only “with” him for a few months, the impact was like no other. I can see my kids dad (eu) who i was with for TEN YEARS and we’re on ok terms. No physical/emotional reaction. We actually get along pretty well as long as i’m not expecting him to be an equal parent to our kids… But that’s cuz he was a fairly normal human being. This other one….eesh. gives me the creeps. and hearing what your reply…even creepier!
Well Nat, after some consideration, with your response (and the article on it) , I am thinking you are right again! I really didn’t think buddy would waste an iota of time on door-crashing, but right after your response, he came in again, and was friendly. No re,sponse from me, just business. Three days later, comes in and is cold, icy stare, no response when i greeted him with a simple “hi” as i do all the customers. I thought it had to do with his current mood: and i still do…but the flipping from friendly to icy is indicative of your tactic-analogy. Thanks, that helped somehow, just having an idea of what’s going on.
I Totally agree Natalie!
I have done NC 3 times in the last 2 years. The first time I decided to go NC, I unfriended my AC from FB. But I continued to stalk him because his FB page was public – I checked his page, his daughter’s, his mom’s more than 10 times a day. I was tracking his every move.
I broke NC all 3 times!! And when we got back together, I still continued to check. If he said he was having dinner with his daughter, I would check her twitter and FB page to find out if it was true. I was OBSESSED, I cried, prayed, did NC, broke NC – nothing worked.
3 months ago, he did something that shook me to my core and I decided enough was enough. But I didn’t trust myself because I have done NC successfully for over 4 months and still failed. So this time, I made a plan. The first thing I did was to STOP TRACKING HIS MOVEMENT!!!
I took it day by day. He is a musician so I made sure that I don’t go places where I think he would be at so I don’t run into him. I stopped checking our common friends FB page because I don’t want to see or read anything about him, I DON’T CARE to know what he is up to ANYMORE. I STOPPED. PERIOD!!! AND THAT STOPPED MY TORMENT!!!
It has been a successful 90 days since NC and I am still going strong!!! He crosses my mind from time to time and I still hurt. A LOT. But I know I finally am on my way to be healed.
Oh *headache* I didn’t block it, just defriend. What happens? The events they go to pop up and then I find out that they’re screwing, well let’s not go there…
It never does anything anyway! It is like trying to fall in love with someone on TV that you have never met in person. I blocked their profile.
It is hard because you are curious, you want to know why what happened happened, you want to see or hope that there will be some secret message / signal that he’s gonna U-turn and come blazing back for you (be careful if he does, something is wrong with that picture) and it will be all fine and dandy.
We spend so much time trying to communicate that we love them, we want our feelings back, we care for them, we get frustrated that our love isn’t working, wondering why it is so hard to get through to them— they spend all their time communicating ‘I am not interested’, sit in a chair and lap all the attention.
Well done on 90 days Sophie! I think what you can learn from going back is that you didn’t trust him and without trust, there’s no relationship. It also ends up demeaning you when you have to keep track of him because it would just be better to be with someone who you had mutual love, care, trust, and respect with. Kudos to you for quitting while you’re ahead. This is a commitment and making it only gives you strength.
I have made the decision to go NC with a guy who I’ve known for a long time, in a relationship where we’ve blown hot and cold for each other and caused each other a lot of pain. It is absolutely the right thing to do. It’s so hard and I am so sad. I have deleted numbers, texts and email messages (in their thousands!) and I have stopped looking at his online (smug) blog postings… But to say “it doesn’t feel good” is the understatement of the year! I feel lost and lonely, and utterly rubbish. He and I texted back and forth, every day and usually hundreds of times every day (and yes, I know I was being managed by text!). That constant ‘voice’ or presence in my life, knowing that someone is thinking about you and you are trading little snippets of information about how your day is going… someone asking how you are or giving you a few words of support (yes, I know, crumbs), when you are in the middle of a busy day… when it stops… things get awfully quiet. We did have a ‘real’ relationship though, not just a text one, and we saw each other about once a month. We were supposed to meet yesterday and didn’t, and it was hard not to think about him. I’m lucky that I have lots to keep me busy but it’s still a huge effort to distract myself. I am running those apps that Natalie mentioned for sure… and I am feeling very guilty and ashamed for the ending which was full of spite and anger and then (of course) apologies from me to him for being mean (he’s had a really rough year and I just feel I am adding to his worries, which is stupid, because he clearly doesn’t give a damn).
“I feel that I was rude (although HE was the one doing the mindf*uckery, the non-commitment, the incipient cheating, etc) and that is giving me such a hard time… Is that normal? Am I insane? How come I feel like the rude one?”
I don’t know if it’s normal Beckceci, and I don’t know if it’s sane (I suspect not very), but I do know what you mean!
This is such a great site – thanks to Natalie and everyone here. I’m off to swallow more NC medicine. Tastes foul – does you good!
Hi Alice, I think much of what you’re feeling is normal because if I did something hundreds of times a day, you’d feel a gaping void. Initially. But it’s a habit and a habit can be broken. It’s just that it will feel shit before it feels better but it would have been wholly unrealistic to expect for it to be any other way. Doing the right thing isn’t always easy, never mind it not always feeling good initially. I’m sure I also don’t need to point out that all of this texting was a poor substitute for speaking and seeing each other regularly. The amount of time you spent texting, you could have seen each other many times over and the truth is, if you both have the time and energy to send that many texts, you were both engaging in some serious avoidance. I’m lucky if I send a few hundred texts a YEAR.
“I’m off to swallow more NC medicine. Tastes foul – does you good!” Amen
I am a big advocate of NC, in fact I did it (or tried to) for 14 months but about halfway through I started fantasising about him again. Torturing myself with thoughts of him and his wife (long story but after we broke up he lost his job, moved in with another woman to save money and married her as she was about to be deported) and generally feeling sorry for myself because all my attempts to meet someone kept falling flat. One of the things I did do though was fill my life with lots of activities and made loads of new friends but I still wasn’t busy enough to take the focus off him.
And then one evening as I was walking home from the gym looking an utter state.. and there he was standing outside my building. Of course my resolve to tell him to get lost crumbled, I heard his sorry story about being unhappy and not loving her and we ended up kissing. A week later we had dinner and got physical although I wouldn’t let him sleep with me.
But you know the funniest thing? I have stopped fantasising and thinking about him because I realise that I don’t need him anymore. All the activities I started are now making my life very busy and mind is full. I feel like he is a relic of my past and that I just want to leave him behind. My rose tinted glasses have finally come off and he is not the romantic hero I thought he was. He is overweight and the kind of man who has no qualms about asking me to go on holiday with him while his wife is away for a month! Regardless of the visa issue, they have been together for a year but he still doesn’t love her and would happily cheat on her while she waits in vain for him to fall in love with her.
No that is not the man I fell in love with and it is only him coming back into my life out of the blue that made me realise it. It has given me the closure I wanted and needed. Time and distance really do open your eyes.
Great comment Madison – you really don’t want a man that would behave like this. It doesn’t really matter how he’s come to be married – he’s married AND a user. It would be like feeling bad about the fact that he’s not using you *instead*. You definitely don’t need him anymore – you never did!
Good for you Sophie.
Yosizzle. You are doing the right thing. Business as usual. If you can, have someone else wait on him.
Alice, the quiet is tough. I was an attention junkie and everytime he text me I got a little high. “someone loves me, someone cares” I was in the same situation with the MM. I went NC again for, let me see….the 20th time two weeks ago? I asked him to leave me alone, he followed me into a bar when I was with friends and continuously steps over boundries. Why? because it always worked in the past. At one point he showed up at my house at 8:30 am while I was getting ready for work because he was feeling depressed and it was impulsive. I sent him away and told him next time I’m depressed I will show up at his house! He continues to send my texts which I delete. His last one was “if you refuse to talk to me, do you want me to seek someone else out?” REALLY? I saved this text just to look at when and IF I feel weak. I am kicking myself since I had gone NC last year for 6 months and it broke when he text me on my birthday starting off as friends. Sex within 2 months of that. There is no middle ground…… NC with a list of all the sh..t he has done in my purse to remind me. When I get his texts, It makes me sick now. I know he will keep it up so now it is a battle of deletes! It is good to block the facebook etc. Just for You! HOpe this helps.
Dear Natalie,
Hello! I’m a queer woman in early 20’s from Japan. I’ve been blessed with an opportunity to fortunately bump into your wonderful blog and I have to say that your posts have been literally saving my sanity. First of all, thank you so much!
I went through a really tough romantic rollercoaster with a girl which lasted for nearly four years. She broke off this so-called “relationship” with a selfish mobile text and blocked me completely after that. I couldn’t sleep, eat or look at reality with a right mindset for months and months. Everything and everybody reminded me of her. It’s been nearly 20 months since the incident. I’m ashamed to say that I’ve cyber stalked her numerous times in the past 20 months which is a very long time (blergh). I tried to stop numerous times but broke my vows numerous times. I was on the verge of giving it all up and was ready to just delve into depression again but I was sick of being depressed too. It was then that I realized that I am deliberately hurting myself, that it’s *me who’s intentionally going through hell. I guess you can call it a bad habit/addiction.
I finally decided to stop a few days ago. I used to go to bed thinking about this person or wake up in the morning and the first thing that came up on my mind would be her face.
I’ve been trying to focus on the positive aspects of my own life, to find beauty in the things and people and in myself, which is making me feel much much better. And really, this person was, is, and *never will be this so called “ideal perfect lover” nor soulmate. They were simply not *the one, isn’t and never will be.
Hopefully I can persevere and in time, I’ll be so sucked into my own life, I wouldn’t have to think about breaking the NC!
Thank you again!
You’ve found the right site, Chat! Keep going with NC and with doing small things, mentally and practically, to give your mind a break from this, to let knew light in, and to build confidence again. There are a lot of ways to feel loved and express love in this life, so, yes, keep going on your mission to see beauty and joy in things other than your last relationship, which was not, actually, that charming.
Hi Chat, this sounds like a very painful situation and I’m glad you’ve decided to stop because it’s like pouring salt on the wound over and over again. Take your time and nurture yourself. I think this whole cyberstalking (or just general stalking) arises out of trying to keep control of them in some way so that you can keep control of yourself, which backfires because you end up being reduced to what can be quite humiliating behaviour, which in turn makes you feel bad and even very angry, which then has you seeking to be in control again, which then has you seeking them out again. She’s not yours though. Even if you were together still, she’s not your possession so it’s like you’ve moved out of a property but are sneaking in from time to time, or hanging around outside.
I would formulate a plan of how you’re going to fill up your time and also do some unsent letters. If you can, I think it would also be helpful to see a counselor so that you can really lay this relationship to rest.
The relationship is broken – you’re not.
Dear Elle and Natalie,
Thank you so much for the supportive words, this wonderful site makes me realize that I’m not the only one going through such pain. Thank you once again!
After I re-started NC in September, it was tough. I kept thinking, and sometimes I still think, about the amazing first letters and conversations he and I shared(long-distance). But the truth is that it was a case of pursuit and curiosity on his part. Like several of Nat’s posts have shown, hot pursuit might later equal cold feet.
I needed this post at this very time! I’ve been working out and feeling great. Returned to college to finish my degree(something this rejection forced me into was looking closely at my life–did I want to be in the same “cozy” job always, or did I want to use my talents and abilities to do something I loved). I’ve almost finished my first semester!
My sister is nearly engaged, and I will be the last single child in my family soon. There’s still pressure on me from family and friends to find a man and settle. But though I have never married, I’ve had long-term relationships where I haven’t done right by me. So I think my future is about not blaming myself that I walked away from bad situations and inappropriate men. I could have stayed, but I didn’t. Thanks to BR! 🙂
It’s tough when society tells you that you need a man to be successful. And like this post says, the right decision doesn’t feel the best. We’re too used to the rom-com idea that as soon as we make the right decision, we will spend a week feeling bad, and then one day we’ll be drinking coffee in a bistro alone, and Mr. Unavailable will see us. He’ll realize what he had, and sweep us off our feet to go live in a rosy-colored future. Oh, I am about to burn all of my rom-com movies now…well, not all of them 😉
Stay strong!
Hi Story, society says a lot of things but it doesn’t make it right. We have to find our own way and have our mind, because ultimately what society has in mind for us isn’t always what fits with our own values, which are ultimately what makes us individual. Heart, body, mind, and soul matters – not some vague airy fairy thing of what people who you don’t actually give a rats about, think. When we pander to ‘society’ we go out like sheep with false and often deluded expectations. You have got to start listening to yourself, and it’s more important to be happy and to find a relationship that reflects healthy beliefs and values, than it is to find a man to appease friends and family who are only projecting their own security about how they see themselves onto you.
Thank you, NML! That is exactly right. How true it is that people were projecting onto me, even more than my family wanting “the best for me” in their eyes….I’ve actually had guys I dated project their “fantasy woman image” onto me. If only, according to them, I was a little heavier(yes, really) or a little thinner, had black hair instead of brown, got a tan, etc. Oh, my. 🙁
Your “self esteem posts” have helped me more than you know. Thank you so much! I’m really working on listening to myself-hoping as I make the outward changes of positivity(not what people think I should be, but for myself)that the inward changes will come, too. I’d be glad to know any more posts you recommend in that area!
PS: I copied your reply and will look at it whenever I am tempted to cave!
Natalie!! Do you sneakily hide in my living room watching what I am doing??? SO many of your posts resonate with me and yet again this hits the spot – I make decisions for all the right reasons, and find them hard to stick to, but this is going to help so much. My most recent decision, to go NC on a relationship with an unavailable assclown married future faker with whom i had an affair with for over five years, lasted four months, until some significant day in the calendar came up and I caved and texted him! Since I broke NC, he of course thinks its open season to keep in contact with me. And while I have never let that progress beyond texting… I know in my heart its still some contact, and I am no longer NC, which is what I really should be. So, I am going to do as you say and write the list of all the reasons I went NC in the first place… and work out why I am not sticking to it. Thanks Natalie…. you communicate so brilliantly. x
Yes do please do a list Francine – don’t let this man keep feeding you micro crumbs! x
Thank you Natalie! All of your posts are right on time, it’s like you know exactly where I am with this “breakup.” This is the start of week 2 of NC. Quick reminder – The AC is out of town living/visiting his ex, who is probably his new girlfriend. He has not contacted me via text, email, phone, aluminum cans, telepathy, dreams, etc…LOL. And, I am ok!
However, yesterday I began to wonder about him and why he hasn’t tried to contact me. I began to feel bad that I didn’t mean much to him. Then, low and behold, he begins “liking” my Facebook posts. I didn’t respond to him. But, very soon, I plan to delete all emails, Facebook activity and any ounce of proof that he was ever a part of my life.
Your post forced me to critically realize what I’ve always done post-breakup –keeping souveiners from the relationship (letters, pics, social networking, etc) is counterproductive. I tend to place more effort in my attempts to “get over” the person and not enough emphasis on ME and moving on in my life to get to a place where I’m no longer concerned with the guy. So, I’m getting there…taking baby steps, but, I will without a doubt make that calendar of activities to get myself on track.
And, also, thank you to everyone sharing your stories on this site. I’ve read so many posts I can relate to and it gives me peace to know that I’m not alone. Stay strong, positive and away from people who are not good for you!
“Your post forced me to critically realize what I’ve always done post-breakup –keeping souveiners from the relationship (letters, pics, social networking, etc) is counterproductive.”
Well said d. I’d put the souvenirs away for now and focus on your own life. Life is going to happen and progress *anyway* so it’s best that you use the time well. You can make it about him or you can make it about you, but the latter option is what will enrich your life. The former option has you living in the past and tracking movements which only stagnates your own life.
The other day I posted that I’d cut off a guy (LD, never involved with him, just “friends”) who confided in me that he started cheating on his wife (knowing it is not the decent thing, knowing that it is a deal break as they haven’t consented to an open marriage) and it felt as if he offloaded his guilt onto me instead of owning up his mess. I took this last information drop to end this crumb contact, felt relieved until I received his response.
Suddenly my stomach plummeted. My decision felt suddenly scary, my heart started racing and I felt upset. Why? I don’t dare reading his mail. That in itself tells me that I must have always been afraid of him of sorts (yeah, he can be very aggressive). Am I obliged to open and read his mail? I am not interested in him telling me lies, or excusing his behaviour, or threatening me with whatever as he surely don’t want me to tell his wife (which I won’t do). I just don’t care hearing from him again. The cut off was overdue – yet, suddenly I am aware of how much I am afraid of him though miles apart and never been engaged with him. – Maybe my father’s aggressiveness is haunting me again, a past ghost, whilst learning to stand up for myself risking a response that might be too much to handle?!
Hell, I started getting uncomfortable – I so crave my security blanket!!!
I know my decision to cut him off was the right thing to do – but it creeps me out. – Nat, thanks for this strengthener.
Delete the email without reading it. You owe him nothing, especially not a way into your mind and emotional body. There is nothing he could say that you want to hear, and lots he might say that will get your mind spinning and wanting to fire back a response. That just puts you back in the mess. You have excellent boundaries and morals. He is a liar. You are not interested in any more lies. Delete.
@ixnay
Thanks for backing me up. I needed some support and got him deleted. Heart rate normalised. Over the past year I have cut off every inappropriate contact even with shallow relatives, except one last with a very negative “friend” in utter denial, which I am afraid is also due next. I am no more a dumping site for negativity when they are in dire straits and unwilling to look after a good vent at themselves.
Send you a hug.
My friends,
this is the most honest message I’ve ever written. I come to this site every day because I feel that If I don’t come, I’ll lose my self control and text my ex. He is an EUM but as long as I keep thinking about him and secretly praying for a miracle on his part, I am also unavailable to other people and other relationships. I read your posts, my friends, every single day in order to find the courage to pass another day without him in my life. You don’t know me and I don’t know you but I feel like I know what you’ve been through. I KNOW your PAIN. I feel it every day. My ex, is not a bad person. He just don’t know how to love and how to commit. Now that I mention it, we are luckier than our exes. We know how to feel, how to love someone completely and they will never find out…I want to forgive him. I need to forgive him so that I can move on. Eventually. He disappears and all of a sudden appears again like nothing has happenned. He doesn’t answer to my texts but If he texts and I don’t answer he goes crazy. He is selfish and thinks that he is the center of the world. He treats me with no respect (2 years now) but I still think of him. So who’s fault is this? Mine or his?…Really, I need to forgive him because there will be no change in his behaviour. But I can change mine…
I can’t hide from you. There are days that I feel I can’t do it. I can’t go on knowing I’ll never see him again. His eyes, his hands or not hearing his voice that I used to love so much. But, fortunately, there is a part inside of me (maybe a small part of pride??) that keeps me from losing myself altogether. I have to face the reality that he’ll never be mine. He ‘ll NEVER be mine…..
Christmas is coming. And I know that I’ll have the urge to wish him “Merry Christmas”. I know that I’ll have my weak moments. I know that there’ll be days that my tears will fall without the ability to do anything about it. But I won’t contact him. Yes, Nat, sure, it’s the right decision. I know it, you all know it, even HE knows it. It hurts like hell. But you said that not every right decision feels good and I have to trust you. Like I always do. You are so far away (I live in Greece) but you’ve helped me like no one else in this situation. So, I’ll trust you again and I hope that in time, this pain will fade away and I’ll be the woman who respects herself and is respected by others as well…
This really is honest, it touched my heart. I’ve been there, and I can almost feel your pain through your words. It gets better with time, but some of the things you said concern me. On one hand you say “My ex, is not a bad person. He just don’t know how to love and how to commit.” But then later you said: “He disappears and all of a sudden appears again like nothing has happened. He doesn’t answer to my texts but If he texts and I don’t answer he goes crazy. He is selfish and thinks that he is the center of the world. He treats me with no respect (2 years now) but I still think of him.” I have never thought of someone who was disrespectful towards me as a good person, so I’m wondering why you would. I’m wondering why you still have him on this pedestal despite who he has shown himself to be. I don’t know him, so I can’t speak on his character, but you can. You’ve actually seen who he is. And while he might not be the scum of the earth, he is someone who has had little regard for you, your feelings, and your well being. Think about the last time you talked to him. Did you get the impression that by him reaching out he was genuinely concerned with how you were doing or how your life was going? Or was it just more of the same disappointment? When you think about picking up the phone and calling him, think about the energy that you’ll be burning on someone who doesn’t deserve it and how you could be either saving it for yourself, or utilizing it on someone else who would actually appreciate it for the right reasons. The pain that you’re feeling is probably pretty close to awful, but it’s helping you to find your inner strength. Be honest but go easy on yourself at the same time, as you won’t be able to truly forgive him until you can forgive yourself. Woman to woman, I have faith that you will get to that place where your self respect will never be compromised. Just have faith in yourself…
Oh my dear Alice, after reading your post it made me feel so sad, because I no exactly how you feel. I am someone who has always had a lot of pride and that is the only thing right now that has stopped me breaking NC. Every single day I think and fantasise about a guy who I believe is not really a bad person but simply a coward who is unable to commit or truly love. He is too used to his batchelor lifestyle and when things get heavy he backs off. I think about all the lovely text messages I used to get 2-4 times a day, the phone calls and the time we spent together. Every day I draft a text message to send to him asking “to just be friends” but deep down I know its not the right thing to do, which is why after 7 weeks I still haven’t sent it. Hun, I know its hard because I battle with it every day, everyone around me is perplexed as to how this has happened to me now and never before with anyone I’ve dated in the past. I think its because at 37 (with an 18 year old daughter) I decided that I want to meet someone and settle down, after making this decision I met him! On a well known dating website that matches you with so called compatible people! He future faked me and I fell for it hook, line and sinker and feel like such a fool. No matter how hard I try I just can’t be angry with him, even though he has just ignored me and given me no closure. It really sucks but I’m trying my best and somehow I know I’m gonna get through this. 🙁
Alice, Alice your post moves me utterly because this is what it feels like completely when we are caught in this cage. It is a cage, with bars on both sides because as you describe…he goes absent and only cares when you do not respond, when you try to keep up communication he vacates again. It is the dance of the EUM/W’s.
I feel your brutal honesty and have felt what you are going through but to give into it…is to lose myself and I no longer want to do that.
You know when you said that you wanted to wish him Merry Christmas, well rather than get back in touch…what about one quite minute, when you are alone just wish everyone that you don’t see anymore a ‘Happy Christmas’. That can be people who have treated you badly or that you are seperated from/incompatible with etc. I do not wish anyone ill, I wish them insight. Then just move on from that quiet moment and enjoy the rest of your day. Take each day at a time just now .
You said everything I couldn’t figure out how to say Alice. Thank you. I’m feeling the EXACT same pains and going through it. Lets get through this together, even if we’ve never met. This site has saved me, I’m on it every day as well. I think my boss knows it as well and is probably upset, but i dont care!!! 😉
Thank you to all of you, I feel humbled and greatful to know, i’m not alone. Physically i may be without him, he may be holding on to someone else, but he never made me as strong as I can make myself, and as you’ve all helped me to work to become.
lol baggage reclaim is blocked at my work, probably because someone before me spent lots of time on it.
Hang in there Alice, you’re getting there. Don’t give up and don’t give in. Keeping proving to yourself that you love you, care for you and respect you! Focus on how much better your life really easy (yes, even with all the grief your going through right now , that’s normal, it’s ok and will ebb and flow until it ebbs more than it flows) You will reap the benefits in the long run. I know it hurts, I’ve been there, but there is an end to it, all the pain and misery, you can see it fading already. Trust me when I say it will end and you will find more and more peace as time goes by. I am speaking from experience. You will get to a point where you don’t mourn this loss as strongly. You will get to a point where you are living your life instead of just getting through it.
Yep I totally agree, the REAL NC is the way to go. So funny how we kid ourselves that just because there is no exchange of words, even by looking and putting energy into the ACT of looking at the FB page we are breaking the more subtle forms of NC. Its probably a little different for each person the secret of recovery, to get to that momentos stage of ‘I dont even want you now even if you did show up, contact, etc’ My starting point was putting all photos of him into a Trips 2011 file so I couldn’t bump into them on computer accidently. As we were both into travel and photography this was actually one of the hardest things to do, this mental exercise of putting all the couply photos out of sight. The results were very satisfactory. It stopped the pain of nostalgia. I also filled up the diary with things to do. Starting a variety of new experiences. One of which is Ceroc dancing. Its great you get the physical contact that you miss as soon as a relationship ends and interaction with so many new friendly people. I started painting again, in a small way at first- one of the major affects I have is my creativity is blocked when grief moves in, so after a few weeks I arranged some research trips, photographing, doing little water colour sketching and dreaming of new horizons. I approached a few public venues to display my new work and got selected for the upper and lower galleries of the local Playhouse theatre in July. Well I can tell you humpty dumpty is getting put back together and I now have a wonderful new focus and a massive pile of canvases to complete! Its only 2 months NC and I am hardly out of the woods, it does take huge discipline, but fundamentally I wish to be in a better relationship, so that put a cross against the EUM I recently split with.
Anyone who needs a dose of girl power can play Beyonces Irreplacable very loudly. To the left to the left….your boxes are to the left…..so don’t you ever for a second get to thinking your irreplaceable!
Sisters these guys are replaceable. With much more suitable companions….I believe it, I just have to live it now.
I’m going through NC right now – but it wasn’t my choice… He initiated it so he could “get himself together” due to a bad breakup.
I KNOW this is best – because dating someone fresh out of a breakup is a bad idea… They are always EA. He’s not a bad guy – but right now he cannot see past his own pain and even though as a longtime friend of his I can honestly say that he deserves better than his ex, he might return to that relationship, even though he claims to have deep feelings for me that were there before this last relationship started.
Anyway – I was struggling to push for NC and instead, he pushed for it… well, a temporary one. I’m really struggling with that because I feel like an “option” and not the “main event”
I’m angry that he didn’t close the deal when we were both single. He went after someone else – the reasons don’t matter. And now I’m NC, but still in limbo.
I know NC is the right thing, but I cannot seem to get rid of this pain in my chest. I feel like the second I do, he’ll pop back up again and I’ll be right back where I started – but worse. Because deep down I know that he cannot or will not give me the relationship I want.
I know that I couldn’t have done anything to get him to pursue back when – but it still makes me angry. I know it’s not me – it’s him. I know he thinks highly of me (actually he has me on a pedestal)… and I know why he didn’t pursue before. But none of it makes me feel any better and I feel like even though NOW I’m doing NC, there is this “app” (thanks previous posters for that term!) that constantly runs in the back of my mind ruminating over what he’s going to do and if he’s ever going to decide to pursue.
And it’s that app that is keeping me STUCK. I’m trying to disconnect myself from “false hope” that he’ll come back all healed and then apologize for taking the wrong fork in the road when he didn’t pursue b4 & then actually do something about it. It’s just as likely (if not more) that he’ll come back with the news that he’s reconciled with his ex… or that he doesn’t want me still…
I hate that I’m allowing myself to think of myself as an option for him. What is WRONG with me?
Your just caught in what I like to call the “what if” mode. Still wanting to believe some “mircale” will happen and the frog will magically turn into a prince and pick someone else and you will loose out yet again. That is NOT going to happen. Honestly these men don’t change. Don’t waste another second thinking he will. You are still emotionally attached to this guy, you need to sit down and write down the reasons why you aren’t in contact with him anymore to keep reminding yourself how right he really isn’t for you this will help to keep breaking this attachment you have in your mind. You want a healthy loving relationship with a emotionally healthy guy who is not attatched to anyone else, and is ready for a relationship. That desire doesn’t go away, in fact it gets even stronger when you have recently experienced a relationship with a guy who you did have loving feelings but who couldn’t deliver, for whatever reasons. You just have to give up on the fantasy that this guy is ever going to get to that point, it’s keeping you in the misery. Don’t do that to yourself. Stop and think and do what’s best for you, yes, even if it hurts. Because that hurt will give way to something way better, a feeling of accomplishing something that actually has a positive impact on your life. That’s how you get over the “what if” mode. Keep working on it, don’t give up and you will be free. Free of misery and open to healthier opportunities that will benefit you way more then being bogged down with betting on any potential. The guy just isn’t that special. Learned this all right here, so keep reading and listening and learning and applying.
Dawn,
Thank you for responding to me! You are right… I do need to sit down and write the reasons why NC is the best thing. I hope that will help me leave the “what if” phase I’m in. It almost feels cruel for him to tell me of all of these feelings he had before he eventually went after someone else (months later) – NOW when I cannot do anything about them. It’s like someone telling you you won the lottery, but oops – they shredded the ticket.
I’m trying really hard to explain to myself that he made a choice a year ago (didn’t know he was thinking this then – but we were friends then)… and that choice has led to this entire mess. It’s just hard. I keeping thinking “if only…”
It’s not helping I know. I just feel so hurt by it. And our friendship is ruined – how could I sit there smiling if/when he goes back to someone who lied to and betrayed him? And with the knowledge that he chose her (AGAIN) over me? WTH?!
I’m going to go make that NC list now. I’ll be glad when I’m over this.
hello all. i just had to comment on the life saving, sanity saving importance of NC. i, too, didn’t think i could do it & it was one of the hardest things i had ever done & i did have some setbacks. HOWEVER – and thanks to natalie’s brilliance, i went NC almost 3 years ago. i blocked him on everything – more for my own heart – so i wouldn’t know if HE wasn’t contacting me…i know crazy. anyway, last night i got a text – went to check & it was from him-i have no idea why it came through-i need to check with good ol t-mobile. i have to admit i had to sit down & stare at the wall for a moment – but, here is the beauty – it was only for a moment. 2 years & 6 months later a text, “hope you are well.” i wanted to say, “listen plonker(i borrowed that from some lovely brit on this site – i just love that word – which i had never heard) i am well, now that you are not making me sick.” instead…delete and continued with my evening. if i can do it…anyone can. i was a serious mess. good luck & much love~ thanks, natalie, again for giving me my life back.
Stella, yeah plonker is a great word,feel free to use ‘tosspot’ as well, at whim. They are interchangeable.!!!
Hello everyone,
I’ve been reading BR for a long while now, probably for over 6 months, and this is my first time posting.
I’m 21, turning 22 in a few weeks. I feel like I’m the youngest person on here, but everyone was 21 at some point…
I’m at a weird, very confusing point in my life. Graduated from school some months ago, but was not prepared for grad school, so did a post-bac instead for a 2nd BA once I realized I wasn’t that interested in my 1st BA.
As far as men, I have had one male best friend for over 4 years now. We met first week of college. Very long story short, we developed strong feelings for each other, but at different times. He won’t say when he did, all he said is that he went through it on his own and eventually put things in perspective (meaning he made our friendship more important than his romantic feelings). However, when I went through realizing I was in love with him, I actually told him and we basically went through it together, only he had already resolved his feelings, unbeknownst to me (he also went through a hard break up with his HS sweetheart our 2nd yr in college). Either way, I didn’t want a relationship at all in college…until senior year…with him. By that point, we had already had sex, been playing house somewhat (I was always at his house where my other close friends were roommates, I had keys to his place, I came over whenever I wanted, etc). Basically, on the outside we looked like a couple, but we were not. I had no qualms with this UNTIL I was involved with another guy the summer before senior year who said he fell hard for me, but also changed my entire outlook on relationships. Suddenly, I was recognizing my love for my best friend. It was a long year, to put it briefly, as he didn’t want to be with me in fear of us not being friends if anything were to happen (however, in retrospect, he still was very jaded about relationships anyway due to his experience with his ex).
Currently, we are still best friends, still very close, no longer having sex with each other, but still intimate (we cuddle and sleep next to each other and kiss each other goodbye). It took me a long time to not want a relationship from him b/c this past summer, I realized our value systems are not that compatible. However, I am battling with whether I want a relationship just in general from any potential guy. Honestly,…
Young
You are very young and the likelihood that … neither of these guys is the one. Yay – love is better than this!
When you are ready to meet the reason person, he won’t make you feel confused. You won’t be “friends but not friends but not a couple but sleeping together but not having sex”. He will be proud to call you his girlfriend and then his wife and, if you’re so inclined, the mother of his children.
Take some time out. Be single. Bouncing from one ambiguous relationship into another can burn up all your youth.
Sure, you can still find love and happiness when you’re older but – why not now?
Make a decision for yourself. Don’t just wait for a man to come up with the answer. It’s too much for the poor dears.
Hi Young,
I think if I try, I can remember being 21-22. My daughter is your age and I’ve got all of Natalie’s books ready to go for her should she need them. I sure wish Natalie was there when I was 21-22, although I may have not been ready then. You have found a wonderful resource.
Your comment may indicate some red flags: “Basically, on the outside we looked like a couple, but we were not.” That could lead to future issues down the road. If you’ve read Natalie’s prior posts, FBG’s don’t frequently get upgraded to the main woman. FBG’s often end up an option, keys or no keys.
Your comment regarding the lack of shared values is really significant. For 30 some years, I thought common interests was the same as shared values. It isn’t. Natalie’s books really helped me to recognize the difference. You said: “It took me a long time to not want a relationship from him b/c this past summer, I realized our value systems are not that compatible.” The recognition of the lack of shared values is something to listen to.
He doesn’t want to be with you for fear of not being “friends”. Um, what the what now? You have such an opportunity here. Don’t leave your fate to some unavailable male. You can define your future. Always always always know, you deserve the best. When a guy is acting like he can’t commit, assuming you would like a committment, flush.
I’m learning at the old age of 52, love isn’t about being confused. If I’m confused, there’s a reason and it ain’t about love.
Its quite amazing, all of Natalie’s posts resonate with me.I feel like she’s somehow living in my head almost!hehe;) could’nt have said it better!I came across this blog awhile back, by chance and after my guy rejecting me countless times, treating me like an option, boomerang-in and out of my life…etc etc (I’ve had it all happen), finally after 2 years (yes, it took me awhile!:P), I’ve found the courage to leave my assclown/mr.unavailable! (my AC had all the traits that Natalie mentioned) he loved the ‘reset button’ and I just got tired of making excuses for his poor behaviour and shitty attitude towards me and our ‘relationship’ or lack thereof.
I’d just like to say THANKYOU to Natalie for the existence of this blog and also to all that have shared their stories. It really helps to know that I AM NOT ALONE! When I cut contact, I went ‘cold turkey’, no msgs, no explaination, no nothing. In the beginning when I first started NC, my AC would start sending me all these sweet text msgs, as if nothing ever happened, met with coldness, followed by 2 weeks later, a nice long message about how Christmas is around the corner and how my AC ‘misses me’ and that he’s been having a ‘tough time at work’ (exact words:P) Which of course, I did not respond to.
Natalie is absolutely right, the right decision, doesn’t always feel good….and reading these posts, have helped strengthen my decision! It’s a great reminder:) It’s only been NC for a month now, and I go to this site everyday! It is the only thing that keeps me sane;P…and has really helped me get through, day by day, and not make me want to turn back and make me want to talk to my ex. Yes, it still hurts like hell, but I’ll be alright.
Wow, where to begin..? After a year long, verbally and emotionally abusive relationship, I finally got fed up and left. One day I just blew up and went N/C. A few months went by, he sent apologetic emails, called me, all of which I ignored, then finally, he cornered me on the phone at work one day. I had felt like I was making some serious headway on my recovery, was gaining back my self esteem and was even starting to date a very kind and giving man who treated me like GOLD.
After the phone call from AC, I started to slip back into the trap. He kept messaging me, telling me he was going to counseling and wanted to “work things out with me” and slowly got his foot in the door; I was cold/indifferent to him at first, but my will power started to slip.. I started to feel distant towards the man I was dating, and I started to believe and fantasize that the AC really wanted me back and could seriously change his angry, abusive ways. (hmmmm..talk about living in a fantasy world…) After countless text messages and emails from AC, stating things like: “If you need anything, I’m here for you”, “I really miss you and want you in my life, even as a friend” etc., I broke down one day and contacted him and we met up for coffee.
He looked amazing, had obviously been working out and was telling me about all the dates he had gone on recently. I was a basket case; crying and a wreck. I gave him a hug and kiss that day before I left and it felt so good and I was hooked again…that evening, I send him a message saying how nice it was to see him and how it felt good to kiss him..in return, he point blank tells me that the kiss I gave him felt “cold and emotion less”, that he is focused on his counseling and doesn’t want anyone else “pulling” at him, because he is determined to “get better”, and that he wants nothing to do with me… showing no emotion at all. I went off the deep end and started trying to win him back again, and basically stalking him. He just ignored me or started raging on me again and told me not to contact him again (the opposite of what he had said just a week before..) I believe he pursued me strongly just to pull me in again so that he could ultimately hurt and punish me and have the ‘last rejection” in this sick co-dependent game we played.
I realize I have an addiction that I cannot control. I found a Love Addicts Anon. group and am attending weekly group meetings so I can stop this addiction and pain. This AC is toxic and poisonous to me. I am co-dependent and I have to focus on changing myself, not him. Ladies, please find a support group if you need help, it has been a god send to me. I am still having obsessive thoughts and pray that I will stay strong and conquer this addiction. And it all started when I broke the N/C by responding to him. Be strong and keep up the N/C; it’s for your own sanity and well being!
This was a very dangerous man and I applaud you for your action in the face of it. A man like that is a power hound, the sex is incidental and I actually shudder, am shuddering at your description of him. The absolute minute you are hooked…it changes for him. He has your scalp on his belt and rides on.
It’s a pity about the guy who treated you like gold but from what you describe you are in a better prideful place now,Lulu. You sought help, gained and are gaining insight and have survived. I am glad for you, stay wise.
Lulu,
that is so manipulative and terrible. I just went through something similar. I totally got sucked in. Now he’s “really busy” — as if I had pursued him. I was NC but this felt different, he was going to go to therapy etc. There is something really wrong with these people. It’s beyond fear of commitment; it’s sadistic.
What a great post that applies to so many areas in our lives! Why is it I don’t do I always do the things that I should? Weight loss is a fabulous analogy. My mind knows doing what is right is not always easy but something else often kicks in. Ugh@!
This is absolutely the right post at the right time for me.
I have been thinking about NC a lot and feel ready to do it now. I have been wary of starting too soon, because I did it before – 6 weeks – and then caved when he turned up in person. It was agonisingly painful and miserable, I was incapacitated with grief and anxiety at the thought of never seeing him again.
But of course nothing had changed, he is still a MM (although his marriage is collapsing round his ears but that doesn’t make him any more available) with all the crap that goes along with that. There is an arrangement in place to meet next week but he hasn’t been in touch for a few days to finalise, hope he doesn’t and if he doesn’t I won’t either. If he does, I will either tell him it’s off and am going NC, or just ignore him; he knows everything anyway, there is no point in going into reasons. The thing is I feel I will keep it up this time, I don’t have him on such a pedestal as I did before, I can see now that really he isn’t anything special, he has superficial characteristics that are appealing such as looks, charm, worldly success in the arts, etc but on a one to one basis I no longer feel that we did have such a great connection after all. Plus he is quite vain.
What an idiot I have been, I have allowed this to dominate my thoughts for months, ruminated, obsessed and worried away. Someone referred to OW as bottom feeders, Ouch. I need to get really really busy with worthwhile things. There are few aspects of my life that haven’t been neglected while I brooded over this crap.
Ladies,
deciding that a relationship is over, not right for you, or whatever is one decision that took me ages to get behind. I finally got behind it by deciding my ex had died, not in fact true, but once I made the decision that in my mine he was no longer in this world, then of course I found that I no longer wanted to talk to him, texts from him just seemed, well goulish. I know that he will text me a few weeks when he suddenly thinks of me, or he will call on his way home from somewhere, but I am never speaking to him again because as far as I am concerned he no longer exists.
It sounds harsh to pretend to yourself that someone is actually dead, but to be honest its just the admission that the relationship really has no ability to move into the future.
I find I am no longer thinking much about him from day to day. Because I no longer speak to him, I no longer get the updates about his life keeping me hooked in. Its bliss to be in my own life and to be focusing on me. Get behind NC and get your life back.
excellent way to look at the situation.
b/c he might as well be…dead.
I’ve had a setback with the NC thing. It’s been tricky since we work on the same floor. I’ve seen bumped into him the break rooms, and halls on a few occasions lately and each time we end up talking about non work stuff, how are things, sports, etc. and then I start daydreaming again how nice it was, how good he looks, how sweet he was, never mind all the crap he’s put me through, that I allowed him to put me through in the past. My mind starts building sandcastles, maybe he will wake up and come after me. Treat me right this time, things will be great. And then I go home and the phone hasn’t rung. And no more texts or emails (since I told him I wanted more than that and asked him why he would text but didn’t seem to want more than that). I feel sad and stupid. And wonder what’s wrong with me and why I’ve had such poor taste. How to get off this merry go round? Changing jobs is not an option at least right now. I need and like it my job. I just need to somehow ignore him as much as possible without being a witch. Trying to save myself from myself. Anyone found a way to move on who was in a similar situation? Please advise.
Crumbs
I am in the same situation – I work in the same building as my exEUM – it’s horrible, I see him every day. In fact I swear I see him more frequently than when we were together! And each time it feels like a kick in the stomach.
The best and only way I can manage it is to get super serious about NC. I don’t speak to him. I don’t acknowledge him. If our eyes meet I look away. If we pass in the hall I square my shoulders and look right through him, if I see him in the cafeteria I sit with my back to him.
It sounds (and feels) so extreme, but this man treated me so badly, and I let him! And now I have to fight for ME.
And today I am celebrating 30 days NC! And on every one of those days I have filled the hole that he left with another little piece of insight or perspective. Believe me, the trade-off is worth it.
Blue skies,
Thanks for responding & sharing your experiences. Congratulations on 30 days NC!! 🙂 Good to hear it can be done. I’m in the same situation.Thank you for sharing your tips, I will use them. And I will do it without guilt. I’m tired of caring about his feelings & being worried that if I completely ignore him I will be acting un-Christian. Jesus wants me to heal emotionally. The ex EUM does not deserve my friendship or my love. He played games with my heart for months, lied to & about me. Bottom line he liked me for the attention I gave him, nothing more. I was & am not special to him, he’s demonstrated that time after time. My eyes water as I write this b/c I’m loved him, the him I knew when he wasn’t acting like a jerk. But it isn’t healthy for me to keep acting out any care or concern for him. I know in time w/true NC my feelings will fade. I choose me. I will start fighting for ME. I deserve to be healthy emotionally again. There are so many wonderful, kind, giving, NORMAL people out there, I’m not wasting any more time on him.
If it helps you to feel less guilty, I think of it like this: when he wasn’t sure he wanted me in his life he communicated it to me by withdrawing, being cold, distant and ambiguous. It was heartbreaking. By doing it this way (although it may initially feel rude or mean) you are actually being clear, open and upfront about what you want and need. No ambiguity.
All the things we wish they’d been with us, right?
You can do it. You can!
Whenever I think about contacting my ex, I think about some if his last words to me. “It’s like it was there, and then it was gone. And mostly it was me. But a lot of it is just the way I am”. Took me a good 6 months to admit that “the way he is” means he just didn’t care anymore. Not that he was some helpless twit who couldn’t understand his feelings and that at some point I could make them come back or make him “better.” The urges finally stopped when I thought about how being with him would mean never, ever really being myself. I can call him a coward for the way he treated me, but at least I know I’m not one for sticking with my decision.
‘He is being tactical to break down your defences to get you to ‘open the door’. He doesn’t want you; he just wants to win’
This whole post again relates to me but I was doing so well the first time I did no contact, I went almost 3 months although I admit that after a while I did start thinking, again, that it was all my fault, that I misunderstood him etc and should have been more thoughtfull, patient etc so when he did eventually start making contact I eventually caved and faster than the speed of light I was fantasising ~ oh how fabulous is this, he does want me, we’re gonna get married, we’re such a special couple etc etc etc but I then very quickly found out, he didn’t want me, he just wanted to know that I still wanted him and the day after our last meeting he hooked up with another woman and I was devastated, I found out about it by reading his emails and when I asked him about it he point blank denied it and I even begged him not to leave me even though it was me who ended things initially because the situation had become so unbearable, I was taking medications etc anyway, I have to get over that now, that he just roped me back in big time so he could be back in control but the good thing is, this time there are NO doubts as to my decision to go no contact, for good, it is hard some days, in fact excruciatingly painful but this lady is not for turning but I realised after reading this post that I have to stop the constant checking my phone to see if he’s called. I’m still living in the house we shared which is still in his name but I dont even have to speak to him to sort that out, it can be done via text and email. This is the start of week 3 today and my new resolve now is to stop checking my phone and stop listening to that voice in my head that says ‘why hasn’t he phoned’. I know there’s a previous post about that so I’m going to read that again and let him have the last word, what ever, it doesn’t matter, what matters is I’m growing stronger, I’m learning, I’m giving myself a couple of years from men and the next man I get involved with will not be another AC/EUM which he, will most likely always be. Also in reply to some of you ladies who said ‘he’s not a bad guy, just can’t live etc’ I fell for that one, if he can’t love, and knows it, as they do then they ARE bad guys for ever getting involved in a relationship, it’s…
Josie- I don’t think seeing the ex is dead a bad thing! I’ve always thought if it like that. I know it’s highly unlikely I’ll ever talk or see the ex ever again. No different to when someone dies. There’s no reconciliation, no second chance.
It’s hard when someone just ducks out on you and you never see them again. You weren’t the one who actually made the decision to end it. It’s true that I no longer want to be with him. At the moment I only knew, he is unhappy but has made it all about me. He had only been going through the motions, telling and doing the things to keep things going. I knew I couldn’t be with him as he was, where he kept secrets, was judgmental, and would always tear me down to explain his unhappiness…. But I also didn’t make the choice.
Afterwards I went NC, because I still loved him, and only a couple of weeks later he was already dating, while telling our friends he had made the biggest mistake of his life and was going to explain everything. I knew it was just another charade, because his friends opinions of him weren’t very favorable after how he’d led me on. He never contacted me outside of texts and IMs which don’t mean anything and I ignored.
All of these choices were initially very defensive. The only decision I made was not to grovel and try to get him back by getting him to explain what was going on with him, or listen to any of his explanations which I suspected would be more of the same, that it was because of me just stated a little. Ore politically correct than “I’m unhappy and can’t marry you because you don’t cycle. Btw you are the best thing that ever happened to me”.
I just couldn’t stand it. But the initial break wasn’t my choice, so I had to spend time building a case for why I didn’t want to be with him. It was tough going, and the insights on BR and therapy cause me to revisit, if only to see with new eyes and say “ah ha that was un healthy behavior too”.
It’s hard when someone just ducks out on you and you never see them again. You weren’t the one who actually made the decision to end it. It’s true that I no longer want to be with him. At the moment I only knew, he is unhappy but has made it all about me. He had only been going through the motions, telling and doing the things to keep things going. I knew I couldn’t be with him as he was, where he kept secrets, was judgmental, and would always tear me down to explain his unhappiness…. But I also didn’t make the choice.
Afterwards I went NC, because I still loved him, and only a couple of weeks later he was already dating, while making a show of telling our friends he had made the biggest mistake of his life and was going to explain everything to me. I knew it was just another charade, because his friends opinions of him weren’t very favorable after how he’d handled the whole thing. He never contacted me outside of texts and IMs, emails which don’t mean anything and I ignored.
All of these choices were initially very defensive. The only decision I made was not to grovel and try to get him back by getting him to explain what was going on with him, or listen to any of his explanations which I suspected would be more of the same, that it was because of me just stated a little more politically correct than “I’m unhappy and can’t marry you because you don’t cycle. Btw you are the best thing that ever happened to me”.
I just couldn’t stand it. But the initial break wasn’t my choice, so I had to spend time building a case for why I didn’t want to be with him. It was tough going, and the insights on BR and therapy cause me to revisit, if only to see with new eyes and say “ah ha that was unhealthy behavior too”. Somedays, I felt like I was just trying to convince myself I didn’t want a relationship with him because I had no choice anyway, which is disempowering.
As usual, Natalie, you f***ing nailed it!
I’ve been doing so great, I’ve now been NC for 3 whole months! But last night I had a disappointing outing with a girlfriend and a tad too much to drink and there I was, jonesing and thinking bullshit about driving by, even contacting him, yiiiiikes!!!!!!!!!!!
Like you say in your post, I started romanticizing “the fun we used to have” and magically all the misery was erased. How “it’s so hard to find someone whose humor and sensibilities click so well with mine”, etc. How the fuck does that matter if they’re fucking cheating douchebags that won’t really commit???? Stay the course and say NO to douchebaggery (talking to myself here)!!!
It’s like we fall into some sort of a daze, and it’s dangerous because it could make us eventually go back into the same quicksand and back we go with them. NO MORE, THIS GIRL IS D-O-N-E. Of course I need your support, strength and experience to keep going forward, so thank you Natalie and all of you guys for that…
I just want to agree with all you ladies that find NC hard, especially Jasmine, because also it was not my decision to go NC it was his and I had no choice but to go NC as well. Most people have said to me that I’ve had a lucky escape but why the hell does it hurt so much and why can’t I get over him and move on! I check this site everyday looking for answers and reasons why I need to continue. A few weeks ago I struggled to get out of bed in the morning, I’ve moved on from that but he still pops into my head and takes up space there. I try to keep myself busy at work and after work but I all my friends have their own life (either married, attached or have young children) so this is the only place I can come to right now. Will this ever end? I am fed up with thinking about why he left me when I just can’t see what I done wrong. Am I going crazy? Is this normal? I don’t check the FB anymore but I just can’t get him out of my head! 🙁
Stephanie,
If it helps – I have felt as you do now at least four times in my life – and know what? I don’t give a shit about any of those guys now – they never enter my head. One of them, let’s say for saying’s sake, making up a name here – was called Neil. I am still trundling my way through ‘getting over’ the most recent ex but I know from experience that in time he will just be another Neil (and that’s what I say to myself – and I know it’ll be true – except that I will dislike him more than the others cos he is entirely dislike-able! And some of the others were not).
Time and distance. It won’t always be like this. You won’t always care about him. He is in your present – but at one point he will begin to fall into your past. Just let it happen.
That’s an ace way of looking at it.
Just out of interest, after I read it, I went and fb-stalked the guy who, when I was eighteen, practically gave me a nervous breakdown when he went off with someone else (after rummaging around in my brain for his surname). His profile doesn’t reveal much but there’s a clear good picture of him there and when I looked at it I felt… nothing. Nothing at all.
Looking back, I can see, as well, that my reaction at the time was about SO much more than him – I barely knew him – it was about me and where I was at and the issues that I had at the time. He was just the coat-hook that I hung them all on.
In further good news, he now apparently lives in the Middle East so I won’t EVER have to meet him again…
Stephanie, I promise you…it does get better. That panicky feeling goes away as long as you fight through it and don’t self-sabotage (check in on him, look at FB, etc.) I am 3+ months NC and I am telling you, although NC was my choice, this has been the hardest thing I’ve ever done. One major blessing of putting the focus back on myself has been in meeting new people and making new friends. If your current friends aren’t in the same place as you (single), get out there and find some new friends! Take a class, go for a walk, do things that interest you and keep your eyes open…you WILL meet like-minded people if you are open to it. Also, when you feel weak and shaky, just trust in the information you read in this blog. Trust the thousands of women who have come before you here seeking answers. Trust in yourself and your future that this will get better. I didn’t believe it myself but I feel a thousand times better now than I did a few months ago. Feeling good/strong/happy/healthy again sort of creeps up on you, and I am far from 100%, but I am getting there and you will too. Hang in there girl, you are on your way to a much better life!
i would say this: you aren’t with him. and yet, you are still alive. perhaps you have a pet, or a friend, that is super glad you exist. And so, not only are you alive, but you have someone that loves you. So, you are alive, and you are loveable, and you have love to give. So, WHAT DO YOU NEED *HIM* FOR?! the rest is all mind-tricks. stop thinking about the past and the future for a second…are you here? you ok? breathing? Ok! proof you don’t need this guy. The next step i found came around a couple months of TOTAL NC…is, you feel really great for sticking to NC. Self respect comes back…and self esteem…and then..new things. new people. and then you arent thinking about him at all. and then when you DO…you think: WhAT THE HELL did i want with THAT dude?!?! and it gets better and better. When a thought about him comes up (and with it, an emotion) just remind yourself: that’s just the mind doing it’s thing. It doesnt MEAN anything.
this is perfect for me. My ex contacted my yesterday becasue i didn’t call him for his Bday, we started talking about our past i let him know that i am in a peaceful place in my life and i forgave him for what he did a year ago.( cheaten ) . i decide to take one day at a time he want to be friend i don’t love him any more . everytime i look inside of my heart to if there is a possibility is nothing there . he is very unhappy i been very clear with him that i don;t want to be with him. do you think i risking my emotions.
plumies
No friends, no no! It’s good that the hurt has gone but being friends will hinder your future.
Say you meet a new guy. He asks who it is that’s just texted you/called you/ met up with you. You say “an ex, it’s okay we’re just friends”. new guys says “Why did you break up?” You say, “he cheated”. Is new guy going to think:
Plumies is a cool girl OR
Plumies has no self-respect.
Even if you wish to disregard the opinions of future men, ask yourself seriously why, of all the people in the world, you want to keep this ex in your life. Is it really worth it.
And I think dozens and dozens of us have fallen off the “just friends” precipice into the pit of “friends but not friends, but not a couple, who sometimes have sex, blah blah blah”.
Yes. you’re risking your emotions. It’s up to you if you think it’s worth the risk. You know my position!
I agree!!!
Also, friends do not treat one another in this manner.
I would go NC!
“We do have to opt out of certain things and behaviours sometimes, just like we also have to exhibit some self-control and look at the medium to long-term picture. ” – Nat, I’m trying to keep this in mind today especially.
I have the worst urge to send him a text today. It’s been 10 days NC for me. First time in 4 years! I want to say “Hey. I miss you. I hate not communicating.” But, I’m asking myself…What would I get out of doing this? Would it make any difference in the way I feel? Would he even reply? Would he just get scared and run off more? That’s what he does best anyways. I miss him and our bantering so much. I woke up this morning and thought “Oh, I can’t wait to tell him about X.” Then I realized, I can’t do this, it would be like putting my healing hand back into the fire. Plus, I’m the one who went NC to stop the communications. It is like someone died and I think of things I want to share with them, then I realize, they’re no longer around to communicate with. So, I’m on BR writing out what I wanted to text. At least it gets the thoughts out of my head and my fingers can just pretend I hit the ‘send’ button when it was actually the BR ‘submit’ button that I hit. My heart is racing a mile a minute and I’m trying to breathe deeply and think logically.
Comp,
when I felt like that I just kept reminding myself that I was pining after a CRUMB – just a crumb (while other women around me were enjoying the full benefits of a decent mutual relationship / marriage and that it’s way past time I thought much more of myself than that – as these other women did about themselves.) Really, he is not that special and really, you are not that desperate.
Jasmine, your post really got me. I was in the same boat. If I had bowed down to his passive agressive actions ( refusing to get me off his phone plan, not coming to pick up a computer he didn’t want me to get rid of), I probably would have been fed a bunch of stuff, too. But I refused to take anything less than an honedt, voluntary, sincere conversation, and it never came. It might not have my lone decision to end it, but it was definitely my decision to stop taking half assessing crap.
Hey
I was out shopping today and saw something the AC wants and as it was only a pound I bought it and he can have it when he comes to pick up his clothes etc ~ I thought this was ok until my mind very sneakily started thinking there could still be a chance for us ~ oh boy, did I have to pull myself up sharp, I have had nearly 6 years of misery with this manipulative AC/EUM and I’m not wasting any more time on him, I reminded myself how he realed me back in big time after I ended things with him and went NC then, as soon as he got my attention he dropped me from a great height to then move onto his next victim or maybe he’s a changed man or maybe she will accept and settle for crumbs but either way buying the thing for him turned out to be very dangerous but I managed to pull it back before it totally wrecked my head and yes, I agree with whoever said it that these men are beyond committment phobic, they really are something else but definitely NOT that special. Thank you BR and all who share here x
Karen,
Please remember that by returning to these people or hoping that they will change, also make us commitment phobes.
When I recognized my participation in these relationships, the changes began to happen.
Focus on you!
Thank you Allison, and I really am trying to focus on me and even though at some points on some days or most days I feel like I’m not getting anywhere I know that I am actually getting to a place that is by far the best place I’ve ever been in and one day I do want to commit to a kind, decent loving caring person and I recognize, at least, that I am no where ready for that yet but in the mean time I will not go back to that utterly cruel and loveless AC, I am not leaving the gift for him, I am giving it to my Dad, that AC (can’t bring myself round to calling him a man because I don’t believe he is one) can go to hell – I’ve started now to do something different, everytime I realise I am thinking about him, I say to myself, out loud -STOP- and I put the thoughts in a bin in my mind because thats what the thoughts are, trash and even though it feels hard some times, its definitely getting easier and its 100 times better than when I was with him so with the help of you ladies I have no doubt that I will get through this and come out stronger than I’ve ever been.
Hello,
My current problem with doing the right thing is around dating. And in this case doing the right thing doesn’t feel right at all. Not yet at least.
I’m trying to change my MO as you suggested to us to do. So… A man asked me out. I went out with him. I felt no particular attraction to him but he seems friendly and kind. I’m wondering how long to give this man to grow on me. That old lust mixed with longing brought me misery. So I want to try this gradual attraction building dating and hope that it works.
The last man was an EUM and I fancied him half to death. From almost the first night that I met him. Not calling him was like quitting heroin after I dumped him. So I’m trying to change my dating habits. But currently the thought of this new mans tongue in my mouth is not enticing. It’s bordering on repellent. And he wants to kiss me. A peck on the cheek won’t do much longer. We’ve gone out three times. I don’t fancy him yet. He’s pleasant and he likes me so I’m really hoping that I will.
I’m going to see him again but part of me is wondering if I am just torturing him by giving him hope. Another part still thinks he will hopefully grow on me and I should try dating new types of men. This is hard. On the next date my plan is to get drunk (I don’t like drinking much either) and to just do it. Snog him and see. Is it supposed to be this hard?
If I don’t fancy him and he’s a good man who likes me does this mean that I still don’t like me enough? Or does it mean that he doesn’t do it for me and another nice man will. Does having good self esteem mean fancying every decent man?
How will I know how long to give a new man to see if I can fancy him?
By the way I think that Jane Fonda is a great example of a woman who went from loving assclowns to decent men. From what I read about her.
Josie,
I like your idea of pretending he’s dead. If it works then brilliant. To stop procrastinating I make myself do nothing but that one task I have been putting off during one whole day. The mind is a weird thing in some ways.
Lulu,
it’s much easier to swap one obsession with another than simply not to think about him. I went mad into yoga after breaking up with a man I loved for seven years and it forced me to think in the moment and concentrate on what I was doing for long periods. I became obsessed, doing it for an hour…
Intotouch:
“On the next date my plan is to get drunk (I don’t like drinking much either) and to just do it.”
It’s never a good idea to get drunk and proceed to have intimate relations with someone about whom you are uncertain. After 3 dates, you don’t know how you feel, or how he feels, either. What makes you so sure that he isn’t future faking, planning to go cold or whatever? He seems to be pushing you: “won’t do much longer”
Your accelerated dating schedule is dangerous. You have plenty of time to find out if you fancy him. If it turns out that you do not, you may politely decline his advances and walk away.
You can then analyze if the “good man” is what made him “repellant” without investing anything significant.
Good luck!
Hi Intouch,
Your topic sentence is important: “My current problem with doing the right thing is around dating. And in this case doing the right thing doesn’t feel right at all. Not yet at least.” Listen to what you are saying, it doesn’t feel right. It may not be right to be dating. I’m with you all the way with regards to giving a decent guy a chance. But for me, I wouldn’t get drunk and snog him to see if there’s a chance of what?. I hope for your sake you won’t do that. It may feel really shitty in the morning and if he is a really good guy, you may have pulled a EUW card. In any event, your description made me feel sad for you and for the guy you’d get drunk and snog, even if he’s a jerk. Thank you for your honest comments. I’m going to have to get out of my house at some point. I may be starting to trust myself. Are you?
You’re not being fair to him or yourself. Why force this?
A nice guy will come along, no need to push something you don’t want.
I agree with Allison, Intotouch, don’t push it, I went on a date before this period of NC and I quite clearly wasn’t ready and it was more obvious to the guy than it was me and now I know for sure I’m not ready, I’m actually giving myself a couple of years and I believe that once I’m ready to be in the type of relationship I want, then I will meet somebody and I’m sure you will too. We can’t push or control these things but we can make sure we’re ready. Stay strong, thanks for sharing. x
wow, i can really appreciate your honesty into touch. I’ll be honest with you in return. So that i disconnected from my emotional link from my ex I knew exactly what i had to do, because it was what he kept coming back for and you don’t need to date to do that, in fact every single man on a friday night or saturday will be happy to help you out, as i found. Obviously only needed the one for a few minutes and it worked, because i wasn’t after a date with the burger man, neither was he. I just wanted to remove my emotional connection and memory association with my ex as that was his control over me. That loyalty that you keep for the relationships is what keeps us going back. It took me 1.6 years to do it and i didn’t feel amazing afterwards, just OK that I was allowed I gave myself the permission to. Now Dating is much better to take them as they are without having a comparison of an ex that I moved on from. I’m not saying go and have a one night stand, just saying what worked for me…. Nothing wrong with a little Sex in the City. You don’t have to date guys you don’t fancy either. Just befriend them, and date more than one definitely, until you find one that wants you, as much as you want them. xxx
“But currently the thought of this new mans tongue in my mouth is not enticing. It’s bordering on repellent”
This isn’t how it’s supposed to be. Please don’t go out and get drunk to force yourself to kiss this man. I suggest that you tell him that you don’t see things progressing and cancel your updating date. You’re not going to be attracted to every “nice” guy out there, and you don’t need to force it. You will find a good man who you actually like and are excited about kissing–it may not feel like fireworks the first time you meet him, but you should feel *something* (and that something should not be repulsion!)
Sigh. I really, really needed this today. No contact for 5 months and the last week overwhelming urge to contact him. I just can’t. It wouldn’t achieve anything, apart from opening up still fresh wounds which are taking their time on healing. It won’t change anything.
Our history is that we were falling in love 20 years ago. He asked me to move in with him and I said no. Part of it was that we lived in different states, my job, he was still recovering from divorce. My big reason was that he said was that marriage and all that entailed was not on the table. I as a 23 year old believed him, and I walked. We didn’t ever fight or argue, or have the chance to get together to talk about it, and due to my job circumstances we didn’t get to see each other again.
Fast forward 20 years and I contacted him. Both divorced with kids and single. He flew up immediately and we spent the next week together. Magic. Feelings from both of us were as amazingly as strong as when we were together, we both talked how much we wanted to be together, how he would be here in a heartbeat if he could, but, given both of us have kids, businesses/house, and again still in different states, it has proved impossible. Throw in some yellow flags which I listened to (both EU) and I find myself in exactly the same position as twenty years ago. Older, wiser maybe, but still the same.
I know it was the right decision to go no contact, but damn it is hard.
Hi Jaydee,
I am still recovering from my NC of a year ago, more or less [some sporadic mixed messages from him]. Like you, this was someone I crushed on from 20 years ago. I really did carry a torch all these years only to find he didn’t. No one else made me feel the way he could and yet, after 20 years, he didn’t realize ‘his mistake’ and see me as ‘the one that got away’ [as I assumed he would, after all, he looked me up when his marriage was on the rocks – live and learn].
So this good-bye hurts like no other, because of our history. I think he needed to feel good about himself once again and he sure knew who could do that. Now he [and your] ex can face the reality of their lives alone; without their fan club and cheerleaders. But I still feel very hurt.
Thanks outer girl, I hear you when you say it hurts like no other, and i am so sorry that you have had this experience too. Nothing has ever been this painful before. In spite of the pain, I am so grateful I had the experience of reuniting with him for the short time we had. For me, it has also allowed me to examine my life and choices/mistakes I made over the last 20 years, especially those ones I made before/after I split with him the first time. It does not take away the fact that feelings were involved from both of us, whether it lasted for 2 days, 2 weeks, or 20 years.
I carried him in my heart, part of him will always be there, however, I refuse to spend the next 20 years, 20 days or 20 minutes wishing, hoping, grieving, either consciously or unconsciously, for a different ending. I did that already.
It didn’t work out for whatever reasons, painful yes, but hopefully now I can finally let go, REALLY let go, take the love and lessons learnt, and move on. I hope you can too.
Thank you for sharing that Jaydee and I am really going to apply how you felt the experience left you and try to incorporate some of that. Yes, I guess I can’t reconcile that I really don’t regret re-connecting with him and the time we had and the positive [although painful] changes and truths about myself and my relationships that I must confront.
Resisting ice cream and resisting the urge for human connection aren’t exactly the same. I agree that often it looks that way, but on a neurological level, the brain of someone trying to get over a failed relationship, (even an imaginary one) is different than the brain being denied ice cream. Dopomine, oxytocin, and serotonin levels…adrenaline rush, these are the biochemical reasons its so hard for many people to let certain relationships go. Once the psychology and physiology behind what’s going on with relationship withdrawal clicks in someone’s brain, its possible to find the power to let a bad relationship go and see the patterns in our behavior that kept us going back. Or looking for someone just like the last guy. Reading your posts, while I was reading Helen Fisher’s books did it for me.
I love the way you think, NML. You tell it like it is. Thank you!
I’d add that with all of the NC i did or that happened in between us having contact and hook ups and all that jazz and arguing over child contact disputes and well he’d do anything to stay in contact not to have me as I wanted to be, yet so that he could have a damn good go at trying to make me wrong, crazy, over sensitive or what ever… I just wanted more than he did. I was straight up and he turned out to be a jerk who was only after his own ends. I did make him a God, and it hurt like heck more than i’ve ever hurt before in my whole life and yeah i understand the withdrawal symptoms like the lady said like heroin lol, i’d say its worse to start with. Yet when you get clear on what you want and make your self a priority, Kids have that effect anyway, then you generally won’t tolerate the CRAP. Yeah you spend ages defending your position and questioning am i right, no he is, nope… i’m right… read god knows how much on relationships from the experts and see that there are billions of different types of these assholes out there all pissing on really lovely women…
We learnt to be subservient… HA…. i’m laughing right now because of the conversation i had with him on the phone last night when i told him exactly what i’m wanting and will get from my life. The committed loving man.
He was like and actually said (idiot) you’ll have to be a lot more subservient for me and you won’t get this without that… LMAO…
As if I was talking about him… idiot. Anyway.
I just told him that i’m not happy with what i see with him and that i don’t have to be any of those things as i didn’t want him because he doesn’t want me.
I want a fantastic relationship with a great guy… Not a relationship with an idiot who thinks its my job to please him….Prat.
I’m so over it its silly and he’s a silly boy. He was a god, now he’s a boy, without his toy to play with.
XXX
greetings from the US. My b/f and I broke up on Monday. I am in the first couple of days of NC. I saw the signs and confronted him via email and voice mail since he would not return my calls. After talking futures, possible marriage, living together, planning vacations, spending time with family, friends, work, etc., taking dance classes together and doing all sort so fun activities over the past 1.5 yrs, he pulled a disappearing act for a couple of days. I have been down this road with him before last March and we were broken up for 2 months. After that break up, I sued him over a small amt of $ and personal items since he refused to return them. Long story short, I gave a month’s deadline that he ignored and so I filed suit in small claims court. He reacted to that. He actually tried to seduce and charm me at first, but I stood firm and within a week he did pay up and return all my items without having to go to court. Prior to him paying me back it was a very painful time for me and I cried and cried, eventually getting stronger and doing new things, including ballroom dancing. I maintained no contact except for one email when I asked for my personal items and the money owed. Then he wanted to come back and asked for another chance, saying he made a huge mistake and admitted how wrong he was about everything. My criteria for us to see each other again was first he had to pay and return my items, he had to communicate with me and be honest and the he counselor endorsed swing dancing to help work on the trust issues so we were working through this and e became an item again and things progressed over the next 6 months or so and I was happy and I he said he was too. He must be an incredible actor!
Last week, I received a note from him with a check at work and immediately I knew something was wrong since he was to pay me for some footall tix when he saw me next. So the next 2 days he pulled his disapearing act on me again and when I pushed him to talk-and I had to practically force him, he told me we have no future suddenly and he met someone else and refused to face me. I did not argue, but told him I don’t want to be with someone who doesn’t want me and lies to me. He claims he cares about me and has feelings, he just doesn’t see a future. His reason is he can’t live with my cats due to his allergies, which is clearly not the real issue. It hardly matters; he hurt me again and I fell for it again and I feel like a fool. I know I have to stay strong but it’s so hard and he’s being very hurtful by not doing what he promised.. to talk about our status and never disappear on me again. I am stuck alone with many of the comittments we made together to attend by myself. I really feel stupid and that my future was taken away from me once again after I thought we had worked through things. Help me maintain NC!! Thanks.
Hi Debra,
I am so sorry this happened to you. Everyone on this site has a similar story. Please do not feel that no one is responding, sometimes the newer articles catch everyone’s attention and that’s where you will find everyone. In the meantime, read as much as you can of Natalies articles. Please don’t blame yourself, you gave him a second chance and now you know how much this person s*cks. I know; the memories and future plans are a killer but stay around the people who love & care about you.
Best
I am NC since NOvember 17th! Woo hoo for me!
But I WANT to stalk him. Help me! I need an intervention!
Thank you for the advice everyone.
I’m convinced. I’m not going out with this man again and will wait for the next one that I fancy.
Good luck everyone.
As I read this post for the 10th plus time, I have to keep reminding myself that this is truly about me.
At 41, I am at the first time in my life realizing that all of my adult relationships with men have been identical. With the help of BR and learning that I am codependent, I have to being to do the very hard work of making me better for me. Is this easy, ABSOLUTELY not! However, it’s the best thing for me.
As I sat and read some of the post, I am 30 days out with NC, which I have started about 10 times with this same guy!! If that wasn’t a clue, I don’t know what is. But even then, when he came back begging for me to take his calls and for us to still be “married” ( his term for our relationship), I fell back into the same old behavior. But this time, to control myself, I called blocked him, so that “I” wouldn’t reach out to him. Now at 30 days, I wonder if he’s tried to call and right now want to reach out, I have to remember that for this thing to change, it has to start with me.
So I say all this to say that, if you’re knees are starting to buckle under the pressure of wanting to reach out, please don’t because if you do, it surely let’s them know that you are still more in love with them and that their feelings are more important to you than yours are. And as I type this, I am having to remind myself of this very same thing.
Bravo! 1st time! it’s not easy and IS an addiction/like an addiction. The only way out is through. Everyone on this site is here for you.
1st! Please stay strong, dear! I am in NC too, second time around after falling off the wagon and living to regret it. As Natalie says, the decision may hurt, but it doesn’t mean it isn’t the RIGHT decision. The eternal back-and-forths with the same guy are not healthy and you were not feeling well (otherwise you wouldn’t have started NC). As I said, I am also NC, not yet 30 days and I feel your pain, because I am going through it myself right now… You’re not alone, if that helps. Let’s stay strong for ourselves… we deserve it so much. I send you a big hug!