When people say to me, “But Natalie, why haven’t they called? Why didn’t/couldn’t they change? Why don’t they want me?”, I remind them of the biggest truth that they’re steadfastly forgetting: This person had a whole life before you. They didn’t just fall out of the sky and land into your life ready to play a part.
A typical example of this scenario is when we get involved with somebody who even if they’ve been married, they never stopped dating or they were not a committed, emotionally available partner with their ex(es). We rock up and carry on as if we’re supposed to get the best version of them. What we don’t often admit to is that aside from expecting to be the exception, we on some level believe that it’s the fault of the former partner/spouse when somebody is not a truly loving, giving partner. We believe that their exes weren’t doing enough and that things would be very different if the right person came along who knew how to love them right. Of course when this person doesn’t change or even behaves worse, we blame ourselves.
The question we have to ask ourselves when we’ve been hellbent on peddling a narrative where we have determined that we have failed due to our self-worth and even that we have been wronged by our hopes and expectations not being met is: Why are we owning all of their pain and problems?
We also need to question why it hasn’t occurred to us that there are other people before us who have experienced disappointment with this person and blamed themselves. Why is it that we are The Biggest Loser of Them All? Why does our involvement with this person black out everyone else?
When we keep peddling untruths, we grapple with a host of negative feelings and it all stems from one of two premises:
1) Lying to ourselves that this person was ‘perfect’ and then we came along and screwed them up and effectively provoked them into disappointing us, or
2) Knowing all along that they were not perfect (none of us are incidentally) and that there were certain unignorable issues and factors that we either pushed aside to promote the fantasy or that we felt entitled to change due to what we felt we were doing or giving (or more like sacrificing) in the relationship.
We run into a lot of problems when we get hung up on what we expect from people instead of accepting the truth of who they are.
The same untruths that we beat ourselves over the head with about a romantic partner, are the ones we punish ourselves with about a parent. As children, we have an innate sense of how we think that we should be parented, of what a mother and father should act like and when they don’t, we assume that this disappointment is a direct reflection of our inadequacy. Again, even though we may be well into our adulthood, we neglect to recognise that our parents are people first and foremost with a whole backstory that existed before we came along and who felt, thought and did things that were outside of their direct interactions and overall relationship with us. They weren’t here purely for our consumption.
Take me: Much of my life revolved around my absent Mr Unavailable father and a few months back I heard myself saying, “My dad this and my dad that”, only I was around my siblings and it struck me: He’s not just my dad. He has other children, he’s a son, husband, brother, grandfather, friend, ex-boyfriend, ex-partner and the list goes on. That doesn’t in any way diminish my relationship with him or invalidate the earlier pain of abandonment but it has proved to be liberating to recognise that it’s not all about me. As much as I have struggled over him, the truth is, I’m not the only one and there are better ways of feeling special than me continuing to promote the lies that have hurt me. I’ve also struggled a hell of a lot less since I stopped lying to myself about him.
Much as it might feel as if we started living and breathing when we became involved with a certain someone, the truth is that we each stepped into the other person’s existing life.
As humans, we want and need to feel important but sometimes the way we go about doing so distorts and compromises our relationships. We also place unrealistic expectations on ourselves and others. We like the idea of arriving into someone’s life and no matter who they were before, making them someone different. We expect them to give us what we want because we think that we’re being or doing something that will create that tipping point. We, even if it’s unconsciously, try to be the exception to the rule. We focus on our expectations and then we feel hurt when people don’t live up to them.
One of the things that I say to people who are stuck on somebody not becoming what they wanted whether it was a romantic partner or parent is, imagine that this person had a whole different set of circumstances before you came along and afterwards, as well as different characteristics, resources etc, could they have been the type of partner/parent you wanted?
Write down all of the factors that would have allowed them to be the person you wanted and you have a whole set of reasons that don’t have your name on them. It acknowledges the key truth: it’s not about you.
Think about the journey that person was on before you came into the picture as well as who they are not who you’d prefer them to be, and it becomes clear why they haven’t called, changed or don’t want the same relationship. None of those reasons will be about your worth, you letting your guard down and not being ‘perfect’, or about one false move such as having healthy boundaries or not answering the phone on three rings. Acknowledge and accept the truth about this person and you start to acknowledge and accept the truth about you, finally allowing you to move forward.
Your thoughts?
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This is perfect timing, once again Natalie.
I keep trying to have relationships with people who do not want me. Just yesterday, I called my cousin who had been in an emergency room the last weekend, in a diabetic coma. Her kidneys are failing and she needs a surgery. I talked to this cousin for 25 minutes, and she never mentioned it. I had to hear it from another relative that it happened a few days ago. I called her back, told her what I knew, and all she could say was “ohhhh.” Yes, stone-cold busted. I give her up, I don’t want a relationship with her, her mother or her siblings (I have already written them off, she was the last one).
These people are who they are before me, and how they act have nothing to do with me as it will continue after I leave. This is me leaving…..thank you for the information you give on this site, it helps me to realize I have to protect my feelings, and that some relations and relationships and relatives are flushable.
Adele, it’s quite selfish to turn someone else’s personal struggle into something all about you. She chose not to tell you, respect her boundaries and love her from the space she allows you into. What you could have done to strengthen the relationship was offer support, instead you kinda accused her. She’s the victim here, not you.
Reacting to: What you could have done to strengthen the relationship was offer support, instead you kinda accused her. She’s the victim here, not you.
Uhhh: The lady stated — it helps me to realize I have to protect my feelings, and that some relations and relationships and relatives are flushable
What the what now? Offer support — at the expense of herself? Strengthen the relationship — by sacrificing what *she* feels? No and NO.
It is perfectly OK for it to be about her and nobody else. She doesn’t have to be an emotional airbag people pleaser. Sounds like to me, relative to the original post that there is a history to the relationship and she was finally fed up. Sounds to me there was a lot of manipulation– why was there so much triangulation in the family communication? Further, a reaction like “ohhhhh” — uhhh, not reasonable. It sounds like there is a history of ignoring feelings. How about, I’m so sorry, it wasn’t intentional, I’m sick etc. That wasn’t a “boundary” as you put it — it’s a lie of omission. Not reasonable.
Once we start getting real and getting healed or being willing to, we have a lower tolerance for other people’s bs, regardless of the circumstances.
I personally have learnt that we can love people from a distance and not get sucked into their drama, especially the headgames that diminish us and our feelings. Then, leave them alone — love ’em, but do leave ’em.
I agree Sly!
I agree with Sly as well. We are not obligated to share anything with anyone, it’s a choice. For whatever reason, (tired, wanted to think about something else, etc.. (and she doesn’t need to supply one to you or anyone else)) she chose not to mention it. Her choice. You are responsible for taking care of your feelings about that choice. Sounds like you’re choosing to take it personally and are punishing her.
Maybe she was pleased to talk to someone who treated her as a fellow human being, and not just as a list of unpleasant symptoms requiring surgery! I really don’t understand why you think she didn’t want you – you were on the phone for 25 minutes, despite her being ill and weak, and if she hadn’t wanted to talk to you, she would surely have ended the call much sooner. I just hope for her sake you weren’t as hostile when you called her back as your above post would suggest!
I really think you need to look at whose needs you were serving here… when it would have been nice if she’d received caring and compassion…
I agree with Nutbrownhare and Sly here, Adele. Your reaction seems churlish to me. Your cousin probably felt quite weak during that 25 minute conversation, yet she didn’t cut you off (from what you’ve said). She didn’t say, hey, I’m sick and I can’t talk to you at the moment because it’s wearing me out. Were you talking about yourself? Did you give her a chance to tell you? Did it ever occur to you that she may have thought you knew about it when you called, and wondered why *you* didn’t mention it? That maybe she felt that you didn’t care about her too?
Rather than just cutting her off because you got your wires crossed, why not tell her how you felt, and ask if she wants to talk about it? How will you feel if she dies, and you were mean when you could’ve been supportive? I’ve lost both my mother and sister and I could’ve been kinder to both of them towards the end, but I acted in a childish way because I felt abandoned… That’s something I’ve had to work on in myself, as well as the guilt that surrounds my own behaviour. It’s not a nice feeling…
Adele, as a woman who’s had a kidney transplant for 30 years now, I can tell you this:
My health-life is an open book, *especially* to those I care about (which includes my family.) If I don’t keep a certain individual informed? It’s because I don’t want them to have that much access to what’s going on with me.
That said, the fact that your cousin went through something that serious…and didn’t bother to tell you? Says something about how she sees/saw you. (I’m not being negative towards you, just pointing out that your cousin didn’t seem to value your friendship in any real way.)
You’re well rid of someone who can’t be bothered to tell you about the BIG things going on in her life. Hopefully one day she’ll apologize, or tell you why she hadn’t said anything. (I’m assuming that the “ohhh” reaction your cousin had was of the “Oh, I didn’t feel like letting you into that piece of my world, but guess you found out.”)
People who are chronically ill – like me – aren’t fragile flowers that can’t handle anything. We can be jerks, insensitive, or loving, just like anyone else. (Unless we’re having a really horrible day. Then we tell folks that we’re having a terrible day because our bodies decided to not be nice right now.)
((Hugs))
TOTALLY! It’s like, please get sucked into the fact that I’m using my illness to demonstrate that I care less about you, please show me, the emotional vampire, the most convenient place to insert my fangs.
I’ve had the same thing happen — people who were outside the fam and complete strangers to me were ranked ahead of me in that person’s life in terms of communication, basic courtesy(in my view), etc.
Meanwhile, I’m expected (b/c I’m younger, among other reasons) to just jump when that person wants to see me jump — the toxic dynamics of dysfunction.
Uhhhh no. Thanks! But no.
I wouldn’t tell people because I wouldn’t want them to worry about me. It is ridiculous for someone else to get angry at that. It’s also extremely selfish of the person who is demanding the information and weird. Nobody HAS to tell you they’re sick. If you cared about her, why would you cut her off so easily? Something close to the correct response would be to ask how she is and if you can help. If this is the type of reason you cut people out of your life, I don’t think the issue is with them. I also don’t think that what you wrote here is what the author of the article is even writing about. You aren’t entitled to people’s information automatically and it’s not personal if people don’t tell you. There’s definitely a boundary problem here and it’s not the sick person’s in this case.
I agree Lisa. The kind thing to do after finding about the cousin’s illness is to call her back and acknowledge her suffering. This seems like that relationship has baggage from the past already, if her cousin keeping bad news from her makes her irate and then cuts her off completely, well, with cousins like that, who needs enemies.
I really feel as though I should be paying the quality of advice I get here.
I just realized that, although I can see valid points on all sides of this issue, l don’t have to add my two cents because my fellow readers have done thorough jobs of it. Good luck to all concerned.
Natalie,
First time poster. This came at the right time. Thank you. The last couple of days I’ve found myself beating myself a bit about my “false moves” with my ex, which I know from your previous posts and have been reminded again is nonsense!
We were together five months and it was a great relationship in most respects but (I now know) he fast-forwarded a lot and kept saying that I “didn’t have to do life alone anymore” because he was now there and that he would wait for me to be “ready”. Then when I did say that I saw potential a future together he started to pull away and became emotionally unavailable, telling me that he was going through some “soul searching” and that he needed “rest”….but he was still going out and seeing all his friends. Everyone but me. I reacted by overcompensating.
Eventually he ended it saying that I was too good for him, he needed to sort himself out.. you get the picture. Your blog has helped me to find the language to describe what I experienced and also to take some responsibility for what happened to me and to learn vital lessons. But still, I had a niggling feeling sometimes that if I hadn’t been so honest, if I hadn’t been so open, if I hadn’t…if I hadn’t…. that it wouldn’t have ended. This is nonsense and I really needed a reminder of this today. He had exes before me of course, and grew up in an abusive household in which he defended his mum from his dad. There’s a lot happening with him that has nothing to do with me – he was right on that score. I needed to be reminded, thank you!
‘Then when I did say that I saw potential a future together he started to pull away.’ It’s as if you called his bluff…or ended the thrill of the chase.
Like this post very much i always blame myself when my relationships fail, if i had tryed harder loved them more but i always chose unavailable men who give me crumbs and had a history of cheating and lying but i still believed if i had done more i could change them was losing battle. In future im not going to beat myself up if it does’nt work takes two to tango.
Well, for me, what hit home was how often in my life I have tried to be the exception to the rule. Living with a father who always sees the “hole” and not the doughnut, I tried to show him that there is joy to be had in life, and he spat on almost every attempt. I was the good daughter, the obedient daughter, the don’t make waves daughter, the agree with his point daughter….I buried myself.
That exception to the rule behavior carried over to my friendships with women and my relationships with men. I had trained myself to believe that being the best-ever friend or the best-ever lover would finally win me someone who’d give back to me…but that is not what happened.
I can see I spent a lot of my time treating other people they way I wished they’d treat me.
I guess I went in to most of my relationships hungry. Hungry for attention, acknowledgement.
I watched a sports wrap up Sunday that showed a coach giving an after game locker room rally, the team had won, and I heard all the positive statements and praise the coach was giving…and I saw why being part of a sports team can weigh so heavy on a person’s psyche. That locker room could be the only place a child might ever hear ebullient praise, or constructive criticism. At that moment I regretted that I did not join a group activity in my formative years.
I am very grateful to this BR site, for helping me see how I’ve been using some self-destructive methods in trying to right the wrongs of my past.
“I can see I spent a lot of my time treating other people the way I wished they’d treat me. I guess I went in to most of my relationships hungry. Hungry for attention, acknowledgement.”
That pretty much sums up my approach to relationships & friendships, Elgie. Hungry love is not love, and it took me a long time to realise that. My mother had it too – no matter what I did, or how much I said I loved her, it wasn’t enough. She couldn’t fill herself up, because she didn’t believe she was loveable. For years after she died, I felt angry, but it took even longer to realise that my sweet mother was just as abusive as my narcissistic father – making me her little confidante and complaining about Dad to me.
The lie in my case wasn’t that she was a bad mother, but rather that she was a wonderful, blameless mother, and my father was an arsehole. Whereas, the reality of it is that they weren’t working on their own relationship problems and, instead, projected it all onto my sister and I. My sister was the good girl – getting good marks at school, doing whatever Daddy wanted, and I just didn’t try because I was tired of trying and trying and not getting any love or acknowledgement… My sister got lots of praise, but she couldn’t deal with emotions, and she couldn’t see that her Daddy wasn’t the prince she thought he was. Now she’s gone. And, at 57, I’m just plain worn-out, so I’m trying to do *for me* for the first time. It’s a lot of work, all this healing of the past, but it feels rather nice… 🙂
I can see myself in both of your posts. I was the good girl, the peacemaker, daddy’s buddy (until he wasn’t happy). Then I was mom’s protector, a human shield. I used to think dad was the ‘bad guy’ and mom was the victim. I see now how mom did not deal with anything and left it to us kids (put it on us). We were kids trying to sort out adult problems all the while competing for the scraps of ‘love’ and attention from mom and dad and they were busy acting like belligerent, irresponsible children.
Thank you for your post as it shed some perspective on my own life!
Hello Natalie,
This is my first time I comment but I have been reading your blog for these past two years and have loved every post. I have been single and been busy beating myself up about my past failed relationships. Then I got pregnant for a guy who is a jerk even after our son turned five months old. I’ve been begging him to be involved and call to enquire about our son but he has been selfish as he was during my pregnancy.
I’ve blamed myself a lot. I only contacted him because I want my son to grow up to know him but he has not been interested. So I feel its time I cut my losses. He’s a grown man and I will not babysit him and teach him how to be a father.
This post reminds me that he has always been this way even way before I came along. If nine months of my pregnancy didn’t change him and make him clean up his act then nothing will. I have my son to love and care for, I won’t babysit him or blame myself for the way he is.
Thank you Natalie for your blog, it has helped me a lot.
Wonderful post, yet again. This topic bumps me up. I’ve been with my boyfriend for about 1 1/2 years now. He’s come straight out and told me that he has been Mr Unavailable in every romantic relationship in his life, but he’s sick of the cycle and he’s ready to have a real relationship – with me. Now, he’s never been unavailable with me, but here he is putting me in the role of the “exception.” I don’t want to be the exception – it’s changed the narrative and made me suspicious. I begin to wonder – once an Mr U. always a Mr U., or can people heal and grow? I guess I will have to wait and see, stay diligent, but I also want to just let go and breathe for once and not worry if my man will turn into the next epic assclown….
Reacting to: I begin to wonder – once an Mr U. always a Mr U., or can people heal and grow?
Uhhh — Sounds to me he has “The Chosen One” syndrome. That being you, “The Chosen One.” Chosen to help him heal, chosen to be the one he’ll be different for, chosen to have the “real” relationship “this time with you.”
And for some reason, you have bought into this. Why? Relative to the original post — this man had a life before you — a dysfunctional one. And . . .did you as well? Why are you in a relationship were your primary role is that of to be different from all the others that came before you?
What has he done to “heal and grow” other than make you “The Chosen One”? Has he had therapy? Has he identified childhood patterns for himself and worked to change those? Has he spent significant time alone not having sex with anyone or being in a relationship? No, he hasn’t has he? Most guys really don’t do that kind of work, instead opting to choose someone to do the work for him or with him.
My experience has been that such types of men tend to choose and. . .unchoose. They tell you all the ya-ya-ta about how “this time they want a real relationship” b/c there is SOMETHING they need from you — that’s right, in order to heal. But once they get their supply, they either 1) leave or 2) blame you in some way for not being what they need or 3) continue to move goalposts, as Natalie calls it, continually flipping the script on what the relationship is about, which is not love, care, trust, respect.
Try looking into the work of that lady who wrote “CoDependent No More” — the relationship you’re in fits the description of codependency to a T. Been there, done that. Best wishes.
Thank you for your reply, JC. Well, the issue with wanting to be “the exception,” I think doesn’t arise relative to people’s history. It arises relative to the behavior they display toward YOU, and the hope that their CURRENT behavior will change because you’re so special. In that sense, it becomes a much larger question – can people heal and grow, or are they forever damaged goods and to be judged by their past? I’d say, the whole tenor of this blog is that we can change, see through our habits, and moved passed them – so why couldn’t others?
I did not ask for, or get off on, the fact that I’m somehow the “Chosen One” here. Like I said, it’s a bit of a frightening thought. However, given that he is not Mr. Unavailable with me, but quite the contrary, what should I do? Tell him he is irreparably damaged due to the stories he’s told me, and go?
Two months into our relationship he started therapy, and has been in therapy since. He was diagnosed with PTSD from childhood sexual abuse, which, turns out, was the root cause for much of his damaged relationship style.
So here I have a man who was open about his past, doesn’t treat me badly (though his PTSD symptoms are hitting in hard now, which obviously has an effect on us,) is in therapy, and committed to it, and I’m supposed to…believe he is forever damaged and/or evil at heart, and run? I don’t know, that seems a bit too easy and fearful to me. Plus, heck if someone judged me for my past like that.
To reiterate, I don’t think Natalie is saying we should look at these people’s past, judge them, and run. I believe she is advocating for the fact that, when someone treats us badly, we should be mindful of the fact that we did not turn them into bad people, they were that way long before us.
All that said, I think it’s entirely possible to be in a relationship with someone who has some healing to do and NOT be co-dependent or have some sort of Florence Nightingale agenda.
Hello, mi-lady Hojay — I wanted to respond quickly b/c you gave some good feedback and made some good points. . .that I will give some deeper thought (like, probably over the weekend) and see what I come up with to respond more to directly/deeply what you said and the questions you raised relative to my questions. You seem hardy about defending/protecting the relationship, and I have to respect that — it’s not my intent to tear you/it down.
Do give the book and website “Codependent no more” a look, won’t you? I think if you do, even at a glance, you’ll have a better understanding and insight into some of the concerns I raised and what I personally saw in your situation — and how it relates to my own, what it reminded me of. I’m viewing through Natalie’s lens as well as a lot of other resources, relative to my experiences, putting them in perspective, sharing them, and, ultimately, I hope, healing from them.
So, I can only speak from *my* perspective and experiences and observations. For ME, I personally have not seen or experienced the type of situation you describe above work out well down the line.
And why, you may ask? B/C you just don’t know what you’re getting — you don’t know HOW that person will be and what they will want at the end of THEIR process. Plus, there is no end, really.
You have to be absolutely willing to understand that they may in fact, leave you after it’s all sorted for them, or *feeling better* sorted. You have to have 100% no stake in staying for yourself, totally live in the present for where the man is at — which is, kinda emotionally jacked from his past life before you (relative to the original post) with some sex and love in the mix.
Why? B/C based on what you said, he has *never* been in a relationship where he’s emotionally available. He’s learning, getting therapy, etc. . .but he’s not there. BTW, I’m glad to hear that, really and truly — b/c it IS quite rare for a man to go there. That part of it is good. However — he’s just. not. doing it on his own, without being in a sexual/girlfriend relationship. That is worrisome for me personally — just check out on previous posts how many of us women have been truly alone, truly single for YEARS ON END, doing our work. So, for me personally, when a man can’t/won’t do that, it worries me. So MANY men cannot be alone, especially when they have emotional work to do. I personally find that a cause for concern, experientially and observationally.
You say he’s not Mr. Unavailable? Uhhhh — yes he is. For the mere fact that he *cannot* be 100% emotionally present for you — he’s healing his own issues — with you — yes, as “The Chosen One”. He’s merely moved the needle a bit slightly from where he *was* to a bit where he *wants to be* but he’s not there yet. He’s chosen to *act like* the boyfriend he wants to be — with you there in the role of supportive girlfriend. For now. . .but be aware there may be no future with this man. If you can handle that and be in the mess and mix of the present moment, that’s great. But if you’re sticking around being in a “relationship” . . .Be very careful, be very aware of how he’s changing. . .or how he’s NOT changing, and how it affects you and the “relationship.” It’s not so much a Florence Nightengale *agenda* — no, I don’t see that, that would be sick, kind of almost like gaslighting.
Rather, you seem to be a very kind, thoughtful and compassionate person, in word and deed. I can tell that from the way you responded to my thoughts. However! You *are* in a Florence Nightengale *role*. To which, I say be very careful. Why? B/C often when these men have healed through some measures of therapy and your supporting role all through it, they flip the script. They exit the relationship b/c they don’t need you in that role anymore, they want to get away from you and present their healed selves to the next person instead.
My last relationship very similar to yours, and right around that timeframe 1.5 years. “My” guy was also in therapy, which at the time I saw as no problem, as him working on himself, etc. We even discussed his therapy/therapist and their sessions, which at the time I saw as no problem and part of the relationship. I mean, it wasn’t ALL woe-is-me time, I loved him, we also had fun together. It *seemed like* he was available to me. He DID grow and change and the sometimes emotionally volatile aspects of our relationship DID get better, as he opened up and so did I.
I personally realized that I had issues unknown to me at the time, stemming from childhood, which I *kinda* healed.
But, there were things about the situation I *could not see* at the time — b/c I *just couldn’t see* the codepency trip.. .I was in love, and, at the time, without pushing, it sure *felt like* he loved me. We were handling life’s ups and downs together, isn’t that what you’re supposed to do? Well.
I say, be careful about taking on such a big role without the lifelong commitment of marriage and/or domestic partnership or whatever. Don’t be a “girlfriend” in a “wife’s” role. To me, being a “girlfriend” and “dating”. . .these days, we make ourselves more of a partner to a man in a relationship that isn’t for that. He has to do his work on his own, *alone* b/c that’s what adulthood requires of all of us. But he’s not — it’s cause for concern.
See, men can have a very difficult time being vulnerable over time — it freaks them out to be weak. Once they get stronger emotionally, they often want to distance themselves from their former, weak emotional selves.What does that sound like? Yes, an EUM.
Just be careful and aware — you are in a codependent, chosen one type of *role* with a man who may *seem to* be giving you what you want in the “relationship” as a “boyfriend” *role*– but may, in fact, be less emotionally available as you realize at the moment. B/C. . .he’s not. He want’s to be a “good boyfriend” — he hasn’t been in the past due to his issues and now he’s changing *that aspect*. It sounds like to me you’re mixing being “emotionally available” with “good boyfriend” — it’s trouble. Neither he nor you really know the difference — b/c you *can’t*, he isn’t there yet.
Have you ever been in relationships or situations where you *unknowingly* accepted very little emotional availability and played a role, just b/c you didn’t know any better? B/C, I have. And sorry, just what you’ve said and the timeframe of 1.5 years reminded me of that.
Look out pretty soon, particularly in the 2+ mark if he starts pulling away and/or changing suddenly, like in leaps and bounds, rather than the relationship progressing, or if he displays jeckl/hyde type behavior over any issue. It’s common, it’s a part of growth and struggle b/c the person is *on their way* to becoming but not their yet — and you get caught up in the wash and wake b/c you happened “present at the creation,” so to speak, of his new self. He’ll leave you at this point simply b/c he *doesn’t know how* to stay and to face the past, present and future staring you both in the face. Much easier to start anew in another woman’s bed. Trust me on this one.
Be well — I’ll think more about your specific questionings and check out that site myself, as I haven’t been there in awhile.
Oh my, thank you for taking the time for such a thorough, thoughtful response, JC. You too raise some very good points – and I’m very receptive to this input, or I wouldn’t still be browsing BR, that’s for sure. I think I am not so much defending my relationship as I am a compassionate growth mindset toward people and the relationships I am in. I’ve spent many years hardening into the boundary police, becoming very rigid on what I thought was red flag behavior etc and so on to a point where I saw men more like complicated, threatening riddles than actual human beings. The reality is much more complicated than that.
In hindsight, I had to swing to that side of the pendulum to find a healthy middle ground. And, to me, that’s not consulting my cut and dried rule book of how people behave – it’s having healthy boundaries AND allowing for people to heal, struggle, not-know-sometimes, get insecure, make stupid mistakes, etc., as well. It’s a much harder line to toe – but definitely one I feel more comfortable with that running around protecting myself from perceived evil at every turn – that is not true strength to me and shows a bit of insecurity in my own boundaries (Has taken a lot of work + a good amount of therapy.)
That said, you correctly point out that I just don’t know what I’ll get with this man. I mean, when do we ever, right? But in this situation, the likelihood of him flipping and flopping as he regains his balance is high. I’m well aware of that. But then again, what do I do? Say, I have a feeling some day you will do this and that and leave, and dump him prophylactically? I think that’d be a bit unwise.
If I turn the tables and say, I’m struggling with trust issues and healing my weird relationship with my dad, open up to my boyfriend about it in confidence, ask him to please be patient with me as I figure a few things out, and he reacted by saying, well, chances are you won’t love me anymore by 2019, so buh bye, I think I’d be calling that guy either an assclown or a Mr Unvailable…you may see what I’m getting at here.
You’re also right that “he’s not there yet.” He pretty absorbed in healing his abuse issues, is struggling with flashbacks and panic attacks, and there’s little room for much else. At the moment it’s a bit like being in a “relationship” with someone who got in a terrible car accident – there’s only so much you can expect from someone who is in terrible pain and needing to heal. PTSD is tried and true disorder – and I’m still trying to navigate what that means to me now, and long term. Right this moment, I don’t have enough information to make a good decision about that, but at this very moment it’s only fair to give him the benefit of the doubt.
There a two things I see a bit differently, for one, I don’t so much agree that he’s not doing this “on his own.” If anything, he is adamant I do not become a crutch. We don’t talk very much about his therapy, as it’s none of my business whatsoever. Essentially, I am not involved in his “healing,” aside from seeing the results as he presents them to me, as well as setting off the sirens when I see something I see that doesn’t fly with me. I am hands down ruthless in asserting my needs and boundaries – it’s more of “take it or leave it” stance from my end. I don’t compromise, I don’t minimize – if he didn’t very much appreciate the rigid boundary setting, he’d have left a long time ago, believe me.
Secondly, I’m a bit on the fence with the notion that he is with me because he can’t be alone, and once he feels better about himself, he’ll go present the fruits of his labor to someone else. (There’s a pun in there somewhere, I know it.) Of course there is always the possibility that he’ll leave when he’s more confident. Heck, there’s the possibility ANYONE will leave ANYONE once their current life situation has changed. But again, what do I say when he actually ACTS IN WAYS that show me that his process of healing is a commitment to himself and to me. Should I respond with trust and respect for his process, or say, actually, you’re using me, you’ll leave me, buh bye. Again, what would I say if someone did that to me?
At the end of the day, this is all taking bets and gambles on someone’s future behavior. You may very well be right about everything you say, or you may not, he’ll move through his struggles and be grateful I didn’t abandon him in the process – stranger things have happened. I’d feel very differently about this if he made excuses for his behavior in the past (calling his exes crazy or needy, and not taking the responsibility for why they failed,) and/or was blaming me for his shortcomings, and/or denying his issues, and/or refusing to face them head on, and/or not acknowledging my needs, and/or got flaky with me, wavered on his commitment, and so on.
Of course, if his behavior changed or, respectively, doesn’t change, I’ll have to let him go. This could happen with anyone, from “supposedly” available men to obvious unavailables. At the end of the day, there is limited sense to the complex chaos of human behavior, or relationships for that matter – all I can do is make sure I know I can’t change people, don’t want to change people, that people actually don’t change over time, they reveal themselves for who they are, and if BR has taught me anything is that people’s treatment of me says nothing about me and everything about them – so I’m not sure if it’s wise or fair to project, judge, and appraise this man’s future behavior any more than that?
JC and Hojay,
I greatly enjoyed your back and forth. It shows how supportive and active you each are in being accountable and honest. I do believe we can be supportive and not be codependent but I believe it takes rigorous honesty and choice by choice, moment by moment, adjustments. I had one long term relationship which contained a lot of therapy and healing for both of us. We had each been sexually abused and had trust issues. I grew so much in that relationship and though it ended because I eventually outgrew him, I will always be grateful we stood beside each other for that stretch of the journey. He greatly healed many of my trust issues and I greatly healed many of his sexual dysfunctions. It was what I call a “good soul exchange.”
Yeah, see? You’re articulating what I WANTED to get to. . .sometimes people come into our lives and walk our journey with us. Y’all had a *mutual* exchange and “soul connection” LauraG, sounds like. You’re absolutely right — issues and healing can be present provided the relationship is *mutual* — not what I personally saw with Hojay. The mutuality/compassion balance is something I failed to see with my ex. Honestly? I personally in many ways felt *used for sex* when I re-evaluate the situation. Lotta guys, regardless of therapy or whatever don’t heal and grow, they screw. That’s how they handle their emotions, with “girlfriends” and “relationships.” I personally believe that people can be *a part of* our journeys toward healing, but only if we ourselves have walked at least part of that journey? Right– ALONE.
Sweetie — The kindest quick response I have is that you’ve described codependency and your inability to separate from it to a T. What I find troubling is the inability to gently, kindly and with compassion (evaluate the choice to) let the man go — it’s too black and white, you see this action as cruel.
I’d say, look very deeply into how you attracted to yourself a man who was not emotionally healthy when the relationship started and, as it progresses, why you are so invested in staying. Sounds llke all kinds of unhealed daddy issues to me — I’ve *been there*.
Remember– this was a stranger to you before the relationship started and, relative to the original post — he had a (dysfunctional) emotional life before you.
It’s only fair to give him the benefit of a doubt? Really? REALLY NOW? You’ve invested in this man and the relationship more than you have in *you.* Sacrifice and compassion are *aspects* of a loving, healthy relationship with an emotionally healthy man, but that’s not what you have. So, you are overdosing on the compassion aspect, which is what *he* needs, but I’d examine the reasons behind why you have a need to show excessive compassion in a relationship. Is that what your mum modeled for you? Seriously, what’s the deeper dynamic behind your choices?
“Codependent no more” — check it out! This is the 3rd time I’ve recommended it to you — I sense reluctance to examine the idea. Trust me — I’ve been there, I understand — but you’ve chosen both a rock AND a hard place for yourself by continuing a “relationship” with an emotionally unhealthy man.
Thank you for chiming in, LauraG! I wholeheartedly agree with you, “it takes rigorous honesty and choice by choice, moment by moment, adjustments,” but relationships where one or two people have some healing to do are not automatically doomed to fail in codependent misery.
@JC, Hm, I’m sensing a lot of projections here, mostly due to the fact that you make assumptions, even go as far as labeling me with daddy/mommy issues you yourself admit to struggling with, while knowing next to nothing about me, my man, or the relationship dynamic I am actually in.
You assume I have not (or don’t continue) to evaluate the option of letting him go, say I think it would be cruel to do that. How so? Because I haven’t left him yet, and continue to see how this feels moment to moment, while actually getting what I need and refusing to operate from fear? Hm.
You say I have invested more in him than I have in myself. How so? I so very much disagree.
You believe I’m displaying excessive compassion. How so? Because I have compassion it is automatically excessive and happening at my expense?
You seem to have a lot of insight into the nature of his dysfunctional relationships before me, as well as the amount of time he has spent on his own. How? I have not as much as said a peep about what is actual issues were before – any assumption on what they were + their predictive quality for the future is a projection, I’d say, quite frankly.
I apologize for not mentioning your book recommendation, you seem miffed by that. I can assure you that there is no resistance there – I’ve read many books on co-dependence in my day + have been in therapy for many years. Your assumption that I refuse to think deeply about this situation in the light of co-dependence is another projection I’m not in a position to defend myself for, so I’ll just leave that one standing there.
Believe me, I understand, it comes back to the pendulum I was speaking about before. I too slapped the co-dependent/dysfunctional/doomsday label on relationships I felt mirrored my own too closely, inferring all sorts of things about either party and the dynamic I believed was at works. It’s a self-protection mechanism a la, “I see through this! You all are naive! This will never happen to me again because of all the thing I know! I will now tell you all about you, your partner, and your relationship to convince myself I got this down!” There is a sub-conscious fear that a similar situation with a different outcome for someone else could actually say something about you and the failed relationship you found yourself in. The reality, sadly, thankfully, is much more complicated than that. Dysfunction doesn’t equal dysfunction, compassion does not equal overdose, previous unavailability does not equal a blueprint for future behavior, and the potential for co-dependency does not equal actual co-dependence. All of the above is highly contingent not only on timing of the relationship and respective personalities, but also the nature of both party’s supposed “dysfunction.”
Hojay – Hun — most respectfully, I’m done with this particular discussion and won’t be thinking about it more deeply over the weekend and the questions you raised a well as looking at other resources, both Natalie’s and others, as I originally offered.
I remind that the thoughts I provided were quick and off the top of my head.
I think this particular exchange is starting to fall outside the guidelines of the site.
Relative to the original post what Natalie said about “We rock up and carry on as if we’re supposed to get the best version of them” — that’s what I think the core of the discussion was about, at least on my end, — but I think going being vulnerable and going deep on that point/and or trying to on an open forum like this is starting to fall outside the guidelines of the website.
Best wishes.
JC, (what’s with the diminutives – sweetie, hun…am I failing to notice the subtle power games, here?) looks like I triggered some anger there. Sorry, but felt inclined to call you out and defend myself from needless projection, as that’s what we’re all here to learn about anyway.
The intention of my original comment was about the predictive qualities of people’s backstories (re. Nat’s post.) Not more not, less, and definitely not a dissection of my relationship as it stands. So guidelines or not – I’m not sure whether or not this applies here – I’m quite happy to let the matter rest. Best wishes.
Oh, brother – so much anger and projection coming from JC. Such a great need to control and make you (Hojay) do as you’re told (and also others that JC has jumped on). Then the diminutives, as you say, Hojay – which I picked up on as well – putting you down, trying to gain control, because you didn’t just crumble.
JC, nobody is “there” yet – we are all, yes even you, perfectly imperfect. Maybe if you’re not already getting some therapy for your own codependence, you could think about that. And every time you try hard to change someone else’s perspective by badgering them, maybe stop long enough to look at yourself and your need to control others. Just some thoughts, because I can feel your anger bouncing off the page – it’s quite palpable…
I feel sad about my choice to detach, relative to withdrawing my offer to think more deeply about the questions and issues raised over the weekend, given the discussion strayed too far from the guidelines.
On to the next posts and topics. . .
The discussion between you both has reached the point of crossing each other’s lines and also that of mine and others who read and comment. If someone else was thinking about commenting and in a vulnerable place, they might feel rather intimidated.
It’s funny, I explained to a commenter the other day who had a run-in with another commenter, that incidents like this are rare on the site. It was the 3rd time this year and with you guys makes 4th. For perspective, it’s really a reminder that the community spirit here and ‘energy’ is loving, collaborative and self-moderating, and it means that even if there’s a misfire of words and projection on occasion like what’s happened here, 99% of the time, people are coming from a good place and even if at times it’s confronting and uncomfortable, they want to learn and grow.
What you are both experiencing is a reminder about boundaries–emotional and mental ones specifically.
I don’t think either of you have bad intentions and I can see why this has escalated but it’s not beneficial to either of you nor the remainder of the people here including myself, to escalate things further so either comment on this dialogue between you further with intention to resolve and not see the absolute worst, or draw a line between you both, and move on in the comments.
Thank you for jumping in, Natalie. I’m somewhat baffled to find myself in a dialogue of this kind on this site, of all places. From my experience this truly is a supportive, kind, and self-moderating community, and I have never felt like vulnerability, openness, and a willingness to learn was in any way misplaced. I’m not surprised at all that out-of-line exchanges like these are very rare on your site, and I’m not happy about the fact to have joined the small group of people who violated the guidelines. Shame on me…
I apologize to you, fellow readers, and JC for engaging in a dialogue that became uncomfortable to some. I’m glad to own my side of it, which is that I’m easily baited and eager to defend myself in situations where a firmer line (i.e. disengagement) would be more appropriate.
JC, I do not assume the worst about you and I truly do believe you have good intentions – not for a second did I feel like your comments where purposefully malicious. Rather, I figure you felt very strongly about the particular scenario you envisioned was going on here and felt some frustration at the fact that you thought I “wasn’t listening.” I’m sure it came from a place where you sincerely don’t want to see me get harmed. Whether or not my eyes need to be opened in this regard or the exchange happened entirely on eye level is another matter, but it’s on me that I fueled the fire by engaging in a dialogue I did not feel was appropriate in the first place. I apologize for crossing the line in any which way.
Thank you Hojay and I appreciate your reply although please don’t be shaming you. You’re only human and the truth us, many of us of have had those moments both on and offline. Much as the written word gives us much freedom of expression, I think that comments, texts, emails etc can sometimes be great sources of confusion due to tone, language and also how we read these communications which doesn’t necessarily reflect the intentions of the author. I see this all the time with people who receive banal texts from an ex-lover or someone who they think that they’re forging something with–they read love and devotion when it isn’t actually there. In this situation, there was a clear issue and it is difficult when we feel that we are misheard, misunderstood, or even misrepresented and that can tap into our defences, even though it may not be the intention of the other party to make us feel that way. Do please keep commenting and let’s move on.
Very timely post, Natalie. Thanks for all you do.
This really hit home. Narcboy had been a serial cheater for years before he pursued me. Unfortunately, I didn’t know this until a year after I walked away (literally). Sadly many folk in our circle did know and chose to stay silent. when I meet someone new, I pay serious attention. Nat, speaking of fathers, your comment about yours really opened my eyes. I need to remember that my dads past included alcoholism and sexual abuse as a child. He tried to be a parent, yet wasn’t able to be. Too many unresolved issues.
I just found your site today. In a moment of sadness and desperation. I was searching the web for help with the fact that I have these people in my life that I am exhausting myself mind, body, and soul to please. They seem to love me as long as I managed to meet every demand. However if I miss the mark in any way I am shunned and degraded. I’ve lost so much of myself at this point I really don’t even know who I am. I walk on eggshells all day long. I’m just so tired.
Trisha..you found this site, and had the bravery to post. The inner you is seeing that something is wrong, and you’re reaching out. All good things.
I have been reading this blog for two years and with A LOT of introspection, pain, tears, journaling, and yes, a bit of back sliding, I finally am “better”.
You don’t need to knock yourself out to please someone anymore. Ever. That’s not a relationship.. that’s hurting you, making you tired. Stop. Dig deep and stop. Start asking yourself every single day, “what does Trisha want, what does Trisha need!?”..every single day. Go No Contact..do it, and find out what YOU WANT.
I have told my story on here, in short, always trying to be perfect. I had my ephinany moment in January. I’ve been amazingly happy. I’m not in a relationship, except with myself. I am not tired anymore, or anxious, depressed or sad. I might or might not date again. Who knows? The point is, I stepped back and decided my pattern was hurting me. I stopped trying to be the exception!
Read these posts..over and over. Journal. Get professional help, (nothing wrong with that), but realize that on some level you know your pattern hasn’t been working, and deep down, you’re ready to be the best version of you.
Everyone is rooting for you. I am. Keep posting Trisha. It’s unbelievable how even a few months can make ALL the difference.
As a side note, last week my Ex sent me a long, pleading Google message after 7 months NC, and I deleted it in a blip of a second. I also blocked him on that, too. All done within about 30 seconds. A year ago I would have broken my arms to respond..now I shrug and move on.
Good luck and thanks NML, as always.
Kat thank you so much. When I read your post I felt hope. I think I forgot what it’s like to hope and want something better from my life. I’m not sure how I fell this far down but I read your post and thought what if that could be me one day soon. I’m strong and I stand up for myself. I actually know who I am and what I want. I know how I’ve lived thus far doesn’t work. I’m lost in other people. I’m not sure who I am exactly but I’m going to find out. I’m going to take your advice and read the posts here as many times as I need to let it sink in. I’m going to start journaling. I’ll keep posting here as well. I hope that someday I help someone as much as you and Natalie have helped me today.
I also want to add that you’ve also helped me decide to get some professional help. I’ve known deep down for a while that I need it. In my family there is this stigma attached to seeking therapy. It’s kept me from getting the help I know I need.
Trisha..good for you! I sought professional help and it helped immensely. It says a lot about you that you can say, “Ok, something needs to change here” and you need to give yourself credit for that.
I never, ever thought I’d one day simply not care enough and just delete a text from my Ex. I jumped to his half a**ed attempts and twisted myself silly trying to be “perfect” in so many ways, I’m surprised I could even name my favorite color..it was always his favorite color or food or sport. Blah.
But that was then, and this is now. Things I didn’t want to face from the past embroiled me in pain, and I played the blame game- on me! I worked through it and while it hurt, I can say to anyone now who messes with me:. Sorry-I’m out.
The empowerment you’ll end up with is so worth the journey. Really, truly.
Keep writing here, take care of YOU, and many, many hugs hon’. You can do it!
And I want to add..my family is the same. I went to therapy anyway. It’s what YOU want, need, and deserve that counts. Never forget that.
Natalie,
I sure got a lot out of this post. Especially when you asked us to ask ourselves why we are taking on all of this? It has been three years since I left my flaming Narcissist and one year of that was being more hurt than I’ve ever been. But the truly painful part was to see how I had chosen an unavailable man just like my father, a charming fast-forwarder just like my father, a lying betrayer just like my father, and a winsome heartbreak just like my father.
As I was reading your blog I felt almost viscerally how very much the little girl I was wanted her daddy to be like he was when he was nice, that one time he bought ice-cream, that time he bounced me on his knee. Where was that daddy? Who was this other mean, lying cruel one and why couldn’t I be good enough for him? I had a real breakthrough in my late 30’s, early 40’s, when I realized I had to accept the father I actually had. Slowly, painfully, I actually built a relationship with the man as he was. We even went to counseling together when I stood up to him about a sexual incident when I was 11. I got to see what forces shaped him and how lonely and scared he actually was most of the time. My compassion became a small but important piece of solid ground on which to build a tricky but worthwhile peace.
What has been hard to face since the denouement of my N relationship is that my inner cast of characters still features my father. I may have a fairly healthy relationship with the actual man but the virtual father between my ears is still in need of acceptance and healing. As I read I realized how hard I have been working to wrestle love from the thicket. I have picked impossible men, unfixable, heart-breakingly lonely, often cruel men. And its all been because of a long-ago decision a little heart-broken girl made: if I can fix him he will love me again.
It is so hard to accept this little girl and how much chaos and unhappiness her decision has caused my adult self. It is like rewiring a hard drive to believe that some man out there will be ok, not perfect, not exactly the hard-luck case my programming is looking for, but someone I can’t logically explain to this little girl: a normal, flawed, kind person who walks his talk and talks his walk.
I am kind of lonely right now but your column keeps reminding me to keep on walking forward, one step, one new choice, one brave new thought, at a time. Thanks Nat.
LauraG, apart from my father having therapy (which he never would, because he is blameless), I could’ve written this. Last night, I was thinking about the unsent letter I’ve been writing to my father. I had a lot more I wanted to write, but, in that moment, I quite suddenly felt at peace. I said to myself (and my Dad in my mind), “Enough!” I’d spent the last 57 years of my life focused on my parents, their feelings, their needs, their insecurities, their behaviours – and that’s more than enough. It’s time for me to let go and start living…
I hope you find your kind man, LauraG – not too damaged, but just weird enough to *get* you… Kindness can never be overrated (and that includes being kind to ourselves). 🙂
Great post. I’m 3 months out of an almost 3 year relationship with a narcissist alcoholic who was both extremely charming and cruel. Reading this site for a few months gave me the courage to move out. Been in counseling since.
My therapist had me do an interesting exercise; write a list the things about Ex that I wish were different/changed about him (drinking, saying mean things, silence, name calling, rude, racist, bad moods, etc.) Then put an X by all the ones that were because of me. NONE. The put an 0 by the ones he did to others (ex-wives, son, friends, parents, etc.) ALL.
It was an extraordinary feeling! It was in front of me in black and white. I’ve been blaming myself for how he treated me and for allowing it and berating myself. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ME. Yes, I’m special and unique, but not all powerful that I could turn a gentleman into an alcoholic with text-book narcism. This exercise helped my healing. I’m still working in therapy and this really helped me get focused properly. I pull out that sheet whenever I waver.
Thanks Nat and all of you for ongoing encouragement!
Great post Marie.
Hey, Marie – thank you for posting that exercise! I’m going to do it as well – that is such a great way to gain perspective. All the best! 🙂
Nat,
Even though I’ve read; absorbed; learnt and understood the above and all of your writing, it comes back to I THINK THERE IS NO ONE ELSE OUT THERE FOR ME SO I’D BETTER HOLD ONTO THIS HALF PERSON WHILST HE’S AROUND. I am looking into the future and am certain that I will not possibly meet another man again. I’m an attractive; active person but still think like a wombat.
I wonder if part of the problem is in calling our parents Mum and Dad instead of by their names. I only just thought of that, so I’m putting the thought out there to test the waters…
Children see their parents as *just* Mum and Dad – not as separate people who had a past – they see old photos and say, “Where was I that day?” And the parents say, “You weren’t born yet.” “What?!!!” says the child, who believes the world didn’t begin until they were born…
And then, we grow up – but only in body. We still have that belief that the world didn’t begin until we came into it, meaning, someone else’s world didn’t begin until they met us. We feel responsible for everything, because when we cried as children, we were told, “Don’t cry.” And so we stopped, and our parents smiled. So we felt that we were responsible for how Mummy and Daddy felt. And so forth… Am I making any sense? I may be a little tired and in need of food… 🙂 But I’m going to follow that train of thought and see where it takes me.
Hi– yeah, makes PERFECT sense. We learn rather early to meet the emotional needs of others and push down our own. Especially as women.
How about when we cry, we are comforted and asked to articulate our feelings? How often does THAT happen when we’re young? Right, like, never.
“How about when we cry, we are comforted and asked to articulate our feelings? How often does THAT happen when we’re young? Right, like, never.”
I work with young children and make a point of doing just that. It’s seemingly such a small thing but it means so much to them. Instead of being told “you’re all right” or “stop crying.” I bristle when I hear others saying that ’cause I know what damage it does.
Cool! So happy to hear you do that! So happy to hear you’re *allowed* to do that — oftentimes that’s all it takes is that one person in a child’s life.
I’m a bit on the older side — when I was coming along, that was not the ethos of society’s rules about growing up. . .kind of along the lines of “real men/big boys don’t cry” and if you’re a girl you’re automatically a “crybaby” kind of a thing. It was really bad if you were sensitive in any way — cry at the drop of a hat kind of a thing.
I think over time that’s gotten a bit better by such actions as you describe. It seems like children and everybody else have a bit more freedom to express and share emotions more authentically and in the moment instead of “stuffing.” Release and let go, rather than hold on and stuff down — that’s better. Self soothing, etc. — I think Natalie has a book or some other resource somewhere about learning to self soothe as adults b/c we may not have cultivated that resource as children.
Lots of “stuffing” in my generation and older, especially among men. I see this as a source of a lot of relationship problems, personally — both romantic and peers.
Relative to the original post — maybe that’s where people’s backstories come from, this stuffing of emotions. If both people are “stuffing” and simultaneously living out their backstories, maybe that’s a big problem and, like Natalie is saying, we shouldn’t blame ourselves for the other person’s emotional inabilities.
Oh my, I wondered why I always felt inadequate-because my father treated me like I wasn’t. All through my life I left like something was lacking. I remember the first relationship I had as an adult-at first I thought the guy was gonna wipe away all of my childhood pain. Then I felt like I wasn’t enough-he even said it himself, I lacked a good physique :). Then I became very fearful that he was gonna leave or was gonna cheat. Then I felt used and tossed aside. But I thank God I’m now healed and know my worth-it’s been a process, I discipline myself to think healthy thoughts about me.
Elgie’s post above reminds me so much of my own ways, especially the statement that ‘I spent a lot of my time treating other people the way I wished they’d treat me.’ But isn’t that the Golden Rule, as well as the adage that ‘you get out of it what you put into it’? So it’s supposed to work!
In my twenties, my then BFF told me to my face that she was going to steal my man away from me. She liked what she saw and she was going to take him, and she did, in a manner. They got together, but he still would call me, and I’m no saint…I would make sure to tell her he had called me. She and I parted ways, and years later, ran into each other again and started hanging out again. I told her she never apologized for going after Bob. She said “You teach people how to treat you, Elgie”. I was confused, and I said “No, you treat people the way you want to be treated.” She shook her head in that “you’ll never learn” way. Our second go round at friendship petered out in a few months.
I now understand that Michelle was right.
Here I am, Miss SuperGiver, Miss Generosity. I am single with a good job, she was a divorced mother with two kids, so I took it upon myself to bring food and drink to her house, pay the bulk of the bar tab, give her compliments on her looks, trust her to do my hair (she cut it so short; I hated it and never forgot that). But I loved the dynamic duo effect we had when we were out together – she gave me social confidence. Michelle was very attractive. She had told me stories of how she took boyfriends from her sisters and other girlfriends – but in my mind she would never do that to *me*, as good as I am to her, as much fun as we have together, I certainly was the exception. (red flag) But what my “giving” was teaching her is ‘Elgie is eager for things to be taken from her, so I will take her man.’
In one of my visits to a professional therapist, I told her the Michelle story, and the therapist said what I should have learned from that is to not bring any man of mine around Michelle.
Living in reality means we have to stop hoping that better behavior will somehow sprout out of people who have already behaved poorly. Use boundaries to minimize their opportunity to do us emotional harm. Basically, stop over-giving and pay attention.
In the case of Michelle, she had told me who she was. And she was true to who she was.
That Golden rule, treat other’s the way you’d like to be treated, is confusing and was never actually explained to me but I heard it quite a lot throughout my childhood. The thing is, it isn’t some passive(-aggressive?) behaviour you can display to train other people how to treat you, or the behaviour you expect them to show you. It’s simply a tool to make YOU compliant and “nice” to other people (or at least I’m pretty sure it was in my case). You still need your own boundaries to ensure others don’t take advantage of your “niceness” to your detriment. Because they will.
After two years of working like a dog to get to the root of why l’ve attracted narcissists and cheaters all my adult life, l’m finally ready to try out emotional availability with a real, live person. I just met a promising, potential new romance, but this post reminded me that she’s just now switching from men to women. We are wading into this pool together with some fairly significant unlit explosives in our backpacks, so the stars in my eyes have diminished just enough to look out for landmines, lit matches and the first chance I can find to escape. Thanks for the heads-up, Natalie. ????
My above comment was directed to the response by Adele.
The article itself is great.
I am a huge fan of Baggage Reclaim and this is by far the most impactful post for me. I didn’t start dating until I turned 35 and gave it a go without any awareness or self-esteem. I assumed and expected that the nice guy or the godly guy would treat me well even though I treated myself rather poorly. I realize now (with the help of this site) how wrong I was on so many levels. Thank you for opening my eyes and encouraging me to finally love, care and respect myself.
omg! I LOVE THIS POST!
You just read my mind about today’s feelings.
Thanks Natalie! I feel better!!