The way the world tells it, dating is hard, there are less decent guys to date, women have a finite amount of time before they pass their ‘sell by date’ while men seem to have all the time in the world, and there’s an element of suck it and see and work with what we have.
Throw in the fact that there are a lot of emotionally unavailable men (Mr Unavailables) and assclowns out there, and that many of us struggle with low self-esteem, and you would be inclined to believe that you have to ‘settle’ and that love is an elusive thing that comes in a package of drama and ambiguity.
All the settling and relationship dumbing down to accommodate men in the hope of getting the relationship we profess to want has me wondering, are we giving up on love?
I don’t believe in settling. It doesn’t mean you opt for creating standards that no-one can meet, but settling is a path to misery.
Settling sets you up to wonder about the should, woulda, coulda’s and its very nature, has you seemingly placing yourself in a position of accepting something that ordinarily you wouldn’t, because you feel like you’ve run out of options or that you don’t want to take a chance on you and believe that a healthy, loving relationship with a healthy, loving mate is out there.
The trouble is, when you don’t like or love yourself an awful lot and have poor love habits, you have a tendency to have little or no boundaries, and unwittingly find yourself behaving like someone that has no options.
You choose men that reflect the negative things that you believe about yourself, love, and relationships and in turn they appear to remove your options.
Think about it – there you are sticking to that one man like glue wondering if and when things will get better, or wondering what that one man is thinking, saying, doing right now because you’ve become obsessed with thinking about him and the relationship because you wonder what you could have done differently to change things.
There’s that one man you keep letting come back into your life because you think things will be different this time or that one man who you’re wondering why he chose her instead of you. It may even be that every time we meet a guy, we’re wondering if he’s The One even though he has familiar behaviours that we recognise from other poor relationships, or we haven’t even gotten to know him yet and seen whether he is a suitable mate.
The strange thing is that more often than not we know that the man in question is not right for us because he makes us miserable, has so far demonstrated that he is incapable of giving us the relationship we want, and makes the act of staying within boundary lines and treating you with love, trust, care and respect like hard labour.
Why are we banking on one option or treating a guy that has failed to see our value and who has made it clear that he doesn’t want to be in the relationship or behave with decency, as if he is the only man who is capable of ‘loving’ us or us ‘loving’ them?
You have got to stop believing that this is as good as it gets.
You’ve got to stop limiting your options because in doing so, you’re creating limited thinking and then in turn choosing limited partners. They limit what you can expect by managing down your expectations and limit your hope by blowing hot and cold so you never know what to expect or which way your relationship is headed.
As I’ve said before, if we give up on love, we give up on ourselves.
In banking everything on that one guy it’s like saying, I give up on me.
There is life beyond this one guy. In fact, there is love beyond this one guy.
But your own capacity to love will be limited as long as you keep yourself closed to truly liking and loving yourself.
It’s very easy to say you love someone when there’s not a cat’s hope in hell of him actually delivering the relationship you want and it ends up catering to the self-fulfilling prophecy where you get to believe that all men and relationships are like this, or that there must be something wrong with you.
You can’t truly welcome love or truly love someone until you start to treat yourself with love, care, respect, and trust. If you’ve inadvertently given up on love as a result of your beliefs, even though you may be appearing to seek to challenge them, the negative beliefs are sabotaging your success.
At the end of the day, trying to challenge your beliefs by trying to find a man is not the answer. Challenge your beliefs by addressing your own feelings about love so you go out there as a positive woman who feels positive about herself so that she can find positive love.
There will always be chumps and there will always be people with ‘issues’ but you don’t have to be with these guys and in you learning to like and love you, which in turn means that you trust yourself because you have boundaries that allow you to exercise judgement, you teach people how to treat you and what to expect from you, and those that don’t want to play by your basic rules, need to step.
If more assclowns and Mr Unavailables heard the word ‘No’ and had their options closed because women were less accepting of their behaviour, you’d see a lot more of these guys being forced to adapt their behaviour.
We’ve got to start believing in love again. Not fairy tale assclown or Mr Unavailable love, where you choose a poor partner and get him to go from cockroach to frog to prince, after you triumph over a few adversities, but love of the healthy kind. The kind that starts with you.
We’ve got to believe in love by breaking away from the familiarity that a lot of these men and the poor relationships bring and getting uncomfortable with the unfamiliarity of healthier options.
Get uncomfortable and pull yourself out of your comfort zone and start truly embracing the possibility of love and a healthy relationship by letting go of the illusion of that one Mr Unavailable or assclown, and embracing the one you.
Your thoughts?
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this website is amazing. it’s like whenever i read the posts, it brings my a** right back down to reality and makes me look at things so differently. this article for one gives me hope. that once i free myself from an unhealthy, demeaning relationship i have been entwined in for far too long, my world isn’t going to end. that there IS life after this ONE guy.
NML thanks for this post, I really needed to hear this today!
It has been a few weeks of NC and I feel I have grown a lot in many ways. However, I still have my ups and downs. I definitely have more good days than blue days now.
But today It hit me, How could the ex not see the value in me enough to stick around in good terms? That is beyond me, probably I would never fully understand this but these post definitely bring me closer to the answer.
I know now is beyond my control but after weeks of NC I still sometimes wonder and makes me sad that I still haven’t found that kind of guy who would see the potential in me. Actually there is one guy, but I am not attracted to him!! go figure.
I am still stuck in the what if’s. UGH!!! Someone help me get over this!!
Once you realize these people add nothing to your life, and set some boundaries, they hold no appeal.
Now that the AC is out of my life, I sleep better. I feel a sense of joy and hope. I feel at peace. I’m focused. I’m positive. I value myself rather than question who I am. I’m motivated to do things for me (exercise, succeed, buy a new dress) rather than as an attempt get him to like me more.
Getting rid of the AC opened the door to so many wonderful possibilities– it’s kind of sad to realize how much time /mental space his drama stole from my life.
(Maybe that’s their point: create so much drama, we’re constantly thinking about them!??)
But now, life if full of options and these losers aren’t one of them. That’s a fantastic feeling! To be done with the all the AC and EUM and move on to a richer, fuller life..
TJ,
Words of wisdom!!!
Like you, TJ, I’ve found that since I dumped The Player (Mr EU) I’m sleeping better, eating better, getting up and out again. I did spend a few weeks mulling over what could have been and what had gone wrong and why…
….but life is too short. For someone like that? I figured, I’ll be lying down to die one day and I’ll never get this time back – so waste no more on Dead Ends. And then I really “dumped him”, from that somewhere inside I was letting him live in. You’re right – they add nothing to the mix (in fact, they sour it when they can). They aren’t worth the time of day!
I don’t know if I still believe in love or not; but I do know that I have trouble setting boundaries to begin with – I think I’m a little afraid of appearing “rude” or “harsh”.
Well, I’ve just joined a fairly specific dating site, so it should throw up a particular type of person rather than Everyman and his brother. But I’m still keeping my eyes open for what I’ve learned here so far, and what I’ve learned about Narcissists. EUs, ACs, Ns and Psycopaths thrive on the Internet and online Dating Services.
Nonetheless, I won’t be backed off. I should know enough by now to spot Red Flags; it’s time to practice setting boundaries; and maybe, just maybe, there might be a decent man out there who actually does know how to tell the truth and form a genuine friendship/relationship.
But Good Stuff in this article again, thank you.
Best Regards, Leonine.
I really enjoy most of the articles on here, but this one left me kinda “meh”. The premise started off great, but then the rest of the article doesn’t really apply for me. I am over a year out from a bad breakup with a cheating EUM and I have certainly raised my standards and am really learning to embrace me and my value and worth. I can spot the EUMs 1000 miles away now, and I don’t want them. So my issue is not that I am limiting my options by focusing on one specific EUM. It’s that I haven’t met one guy, not one, since the breakup who is a compatible match AND who sparks my interest. It becomes harder and harder to maintain that hope of finding a healthy man and relationship every time a new prospect dive-bombs into the ground; and it becomes harder to ignore the sound of my ovaries creaking with the passing months (which I am very much trying to eliminate, as nothing is a turnoff the way a woman who wears My Clock Is Ticking perfume is).
NML i too am in days tho’ only of NC. This site has has confrimed many things fro me and allowed me to see things differently and look at myself and focus on me. i have moments when i feel so sad, because i did want a relationship, but i am feeling a little stronger and i know that maintaining the NC rule is key for me. he is still calling and texting, but so far i have not responded. i pray for the strength to maintain NC.
Thanks NML,
I dont give up on love yet, but I feel so strange and calm and I love it! I was on holiday, went to visit my Mum and sister, and my EUM was the last person in my mind. Before my departure, he bombarded me with messages and begged me to meet him…I hope I will feel the same when I come back to UK, I just became so aloof towards him, that it’s even scares me…………..
Stacey: I’m with you here..I thought the article may be more relevent to me too..cos my current state worries me a little. It seems after a number of EUM relationships over the past few years I just love being single and have very little motivation to date. I have tried but the men out there seem to be EU or commitmentphobic. Society has changed and especially with Internet dating, people are disposable. Men, in particular, are like kids in a candy shop. This is not just from my experience but my single friends too..And this seems to be one reason why women stay in poor relationships – the thought that there is little else out there…unfortunately that seems to be true these days. It may be that I will never be in a relationship again..and that thought does make me sad sometimes..however I am happy, relaxed and content….
This site is great NML..keep up the good work! xxx
“If more assclowns and Mr Unavailable’s heard the word ‘No’ and had their options closed because women were less accepting of their behaviour, you’d see a lot more of these guys being forced to adapt their behaviour.”
My very thoughts as the alarm went off this morning (after “shut up”, of course). Very timely. Very true, the whole post, but this line says it all to me.
Yay! This is a wonderful post. I’ve been wondering lately, why I’ve been so focussed on this ONE guy, when there are so many out there that could be so much better for me…or not – cuz I’m focussing on me right now and it feels SO good. Love your words and love this site. I’m so glad I’ve pressed the eject button on my eum/ac. It is making so much difference in my life! Thanks so much for your invaluable information NML, and the support of this site!
Tons of love to everyone! I’m happy and free!
This was another great post NML! Thank you
Nice article.”The trouble is, when you don’t like or an awful lot and have poor love habits, you have a tendency to have little or no boundaries, and unwittingly find yourself behaving like someone that has no options.”
I can relate to that,I spent years acepting poor behaviour and not geting what I wanted on my last relationship.I fell even now I still behave like if I have no option.I have the believe that no guy will get interest on me so I hold to the one that shows some interest without even geting to know if he is right for me first.I think that is what I did with my ex and why it was so hard for me to let go even having reasons to.Im trying to concetrate on myself like NML sugest but is so hard to be away from relationships.Lately I was holding to a guy that seemed interested on me even though I wasnt interested on him just because I realy liked the felling of knowing that he was interested on me.Yeah I know that is using men to validate and fell good about myself and that I should be able to do that myself but is so hard sometimes.I know that just show me that I still have some work to do on my self esteem.I realy want to come to the point where I dont need people to love me because Im geting that love from me.
@Butterfly, yes, as NML stated, “If more assclowns and Mr Unavailable’s heard the word ‘No’ and had their options closed because women were less accepting of their behaviour, you’d see a lot more of these guys being forced to adapt their behaviour.â€
My sentiments exactly!! Every woman that puts up with this kind of behavior reinforces the behavior leading to it becoming more fossilized. Why do they behave this way?? The answer is because they can. They are permitted through the actions of the women who are willing to put up with it and settle for crap. Also, there is some really unhealthy relationship advice out.
The unfortunate thing with EUMs is that in the beginning they seem to be a dream come true. Thus the relationship fantasy is born and it’s oh so difficult to let go of it even while they are marginalizing the relationship.
I look back with interest on the strong reactions of my EUM every time I set a firm boundary. These boundries I set were usually in response to his trying to “manage down my expectations.” Every time I set a firm boundry he was initially literally stunned and then he proceeded to get all sad and react emotionally. I don’t think he was used to women saying, “No, I won’t settle for that and if that’s the way it is it should end” which is what in essence I said. So, I guess there really are some emotions there after all, at least in the case of my EUM. Imagine that!!
As for me, I won’t let this unfortunate relationship that I wish I could press the delete button on lead me to become bitter about love. I will be more cautious and careful though about diving in head first emotionally before first checking the waters.
@Leonine — I’m interested in what you said about “Narcissists. EUs, and ACs thriving on the internet and online dating services.” My EUM kept an online dating profile active during our relationship. I don’t worry that he met up physically with anyone because he didn’t have the time. In his case, it seemed to be more of a fantasy world that he seemed somehow addicted to. Can anyone explain this to me??
@ Serena- I think he probably liked the atention and felt flattered by the women that show interest on him trough this site.Even if he didnt realy get to have anything with them,for him it was still good to know there were some women interested on him.I think that is why he did it.
I wonder how things would be if I had set boundaries with my ex since the begining.We wouldnt have last a year probably but at least it would saved me from a lot of hurt.Sometimes I wonder if he would have changed if I had set a boundarie or just walked away.He had the habit to say “Either is that way or no way” and I always would give in and do how he wanted.I know I have part on that and that I should have just been stronger instead of give in to his wishes.Well now I know and will just have a totaly diferent atitude on my next relationships.
Hi Serena,
There’s a whole bunch of info and warnings on the net about how Narcissists and Psychopaths (in particular) use the net and benefit from potential victims not being able to see the Real Them. How they set up a False Self and can say and be whatever it is they dream they are in their sick heads.
Photos, etc., can all easily be doctored to underline this view of themselves, and most sites have private message facilities so that they can take it all “behind the scenes” pretty quickly.
But even men who are not Ns or Ps (like EUs and Acs) thrive because – answering or not, getting involved or not – they get the kind of “adulation and attention” they want: where they can believe women are hungering after them (so ego trip in place) but they don’t have to respond or even be present (so, emotional unavailability intact); and, of course, the AC can take his pick as and when his latest doormat has given up on him or is out of town.
It has to be as important to take care with security and details online as in Real Life where Ns and Ps are concerned.
But for EUs and ACs often just a verbal seeing to is enough for them!
Best Regards, Leonine.
Great post NML. I was just thinking about this very thing the other day since I want to explore my life after months of introspection, breaking away from the EUM, rethinking my boundaries and learning to like myself again. But one nagging question still comes up, am I ready to give myself to love? Do I really believe there is someone out there for me that’s not an AC or EU? I have to admit I’ve been jaded by my EUM relationship. He dragged my self esteem through the mud and I helped him do it.
I guess the answer lies with me. Do I believe in myself enough or love myself enough to attract the right people? To put myself out there not with the idea that I’m desperate and looking for love but that I’m a good person open to the idea of love if it comes my way. I know one thing I don’t want my Ex anymore and that is a true accomplishment because I was obsessed with him for a very long time, thinking he was the only one for me. Now I know he was the worst one for me. I have trust issues left over from that relationship that aren’t completely resolved but I do feel I’m ready to embrace life and love again, this time in a healthy relationship.
One thing I have to say about dating is that it can be brutal if you’re accepting dates from any guy that asks. When my ex and I broke up I started dating fairly quickly and that was a bad decision because I was not ready at all. I went on some pretty awful dates that made me feel even worse then I already did. So I just stopped. I knew I wasn’t over my ex and that was the first thing I had to accomplish before I could even think of dating again. I’m glad I took that break from men and the pressure of meeting someone. Now I don’t have that desperate feeling anymore. I’m feeling laid back and really just miss going out and having a good time. I’m actually looking forward to it but this time I’m going to be more selective and keep my boundaries up. I know what I want and that’s the first step I think.
@ Serena,
About guys and dating online – I think you misunderstand the gravity of your guy keeping a dating profile while you were together. There may not have been sex between him and online dates, although you cannot guarantee your next door neighbor’s wife isn’t one of his contacts! But emotionally? Fantasy or not, any investment of energy, emotion, and time into an online contact is time he cheats out of his relationship with you. Whether he converses, gossips, relates to another in fantasy or in person, this is inappropriate behavior that threatens, rather than strengthens, his relationship with you.
Many causal sex games threaten a relationship or marriage less than non-sexual cheating.
At least, I find his withdrawal of time and emotion, his refuge in online, electronic communication is as big a red flag of danger and trouble as the guy that wants to text message everything – history shows this is an emotional wall that he uses to manipulate others while refusing to get very involved. This habit makes it difficult for him to ever manage a meaningful interpersonal emotion-based relationship.
If he were hanging out at hunting or model train sites, then excessive time spent there, too, might signal a problem. But flirting, practicing winning bed partners? That is a life-skill and vice that threatens any relationship.
Amen lady!
And again..Amen!
Ladies,
I have said it before, I will say it again. I would rather be single and happy than to be mated and miserable. Period. I’ve been where all of you have/are and while it was painful, going back to the same thing over and over is no longer an option. I have a friend who will not go out to a concert or party (job christmas party) by herself because she says it screams loser. I tell her that I disagree totally;what it says is I am confident, this is where I want to be, and if no one else gets it, oh well. When the heck are we going to live for ourselves? Stop worrying excessively over what “someone else” might think. Stop being so needy to have EVERYONE approve of you. If you approve of you, that’s all you need.
I was thinking,how our EUM tends to see things so diferent than us.The only atempt my ex made to reach me since I started NC was a text a few weeks ago congratulating me for my team winning and I bet that he thinks he did a lot by doing that.That this was reaching out for me and being friends.Even thought he not even cared to ask how Im or what I have been doing (what in my opinion is what friends do).Isnt amazing how friendship for them are something totaly diferent than what it is for us?
@ Brad K,
I went out with a guy I met through mutual friends 2 times, once on a Saturday night and again the very next weekend’s Sunday for a late breakfast at a pancake house close to my condo. Two weekends later, on a Saturday, I ran into him at his favorite bar. The very next weekend Friday after that, I saw him at the monthly singles’ night at our local art museum! What do you make of that? (BTW, I am 29. He is 33.)
@ Brad K,
Forgot to mention that, when I ran into him at the bar, it was on a night he wanted to see me on. But, because he hadn’t called me for a while (about a week and a half), I told him I already had plans (which I did). He said he’d call me to go out again, though. Haven’t heard from him (though I have seen him!) since. (Don’t think he saw me at the museum, though. I left right after catching a glimpse of him there.)
Also, he is someone with a good job and is very good-looking.
I just read the title of this entry and started crying about this topic. After losing what I at least thought was a true, deep and til death do we part kind of love, I feel so cynical and down on relationships. Somedays I feel ok with myself and am very glad about not having to think about/worry about/consume myself with someone else (except my kids — which is a given :). But other days I feel blue and depressed at the thought of being forever alone. I know I alone control my thoughts – but how do you stay upbeat when everything and everyone around seems so happily coupled up and your coupling future looks really bleak? I feel like I’m just too old to even think about it.
“I have said it before, I will say it again. I would rather be single and happy than to be mated and miserable. Period.”
Spot on txwoman. I couldn’t agree more.
And QT – don’t cry too much too long. You really are already all you need in this life. Learn to enjoy yourself. Learn to live for and with yourself.
Relationships are often such crap (lying twice a week pretending to get off on what they’re doing, lol, come on – admit it girls! It ain’t THAT great, lol).
There are such thing to do in the world, such places to see and such people to meet and mix with (men and women). It’s not all about being tied to one man and cooking and shopping every day until your days are finished.
What do YOU want, QT? To be an Artist? To see a live volcano? To snorkel? To learn to fly or windsurf? To write a best selling book/song? Do something you want to do for yourself at this time – you don’t need a relationship for that.
Chin up, sweetheart. It all gets better, really it does.
Best Regards, Leonine
You are sooo absolutely right. Love reading these posts.. keep them coming 🙂
Beautiful post…Thanks again, NML…
I agree with absolutely everything you said Leonine, and it is such a vital, great way to look at life – and the only way for me! But I do believe that you have to let yourself grieve and feel bad, and worry, and ok, obsess in order to get to that point.
I felt like the more I beat myself up about how I was feeling, and how I should/could/would be feeling, the longer it prolonged my misery. Now, I allow myself the sadness, and the obsessing too…and finally, I’m getting tired of myself and movin on. What a relief. Don’t beat yourself up…for anything, that’s my new motto – even for being addicted to an AC and missing him, and feeling bad about it, and being “weak.” Just go NC – it really does work, and ride it out.
QT,
You wrote “I know I alone control my thoughts-but how do you stay upbeat when everything and everyone around seems so happily coupled up and your coupling future looks really bleak? I feel like I’m just too old to even think about it.” There is one thing you need to realize. Just because looking from the outside, it may look happy, but if you could see the real truth of the so called “happy” relationships, you would probably see the dirty truth. Many times, we look at what someone else has and think that that is what you want. If you really knew what it was like behind closed doors, you may change your mind. Do you know that many times, the people that are coupled up or married, secretly wish they were single. As far as your age is concerned, I have seen couples in their 80’s that get together and are super happy. In other words, what’s age got to do with it. It is your responsibility to make yourself happy first, and using age as an excuse is just that;an excuse. You will learn how to forget about such things as your age, your weight, because if you are happy with yourself, it comes across to everyone you come in contact with. Hang in there, it really does get better.
“positive woman who feels positive about herself so that she can find positive love.” That says it all in a nutshell NML! Thank you, you are awesome!
PlanetJane,
you’re absolutely right – we do have to grieve…but only a dream! A fallacy! That needn’t stop a minute of our own precious Lives as well. Cry while you’re windsurfing, lol. Turn your tears into a best selling romance. Just don’t stop living.
Too often we STOP altogether and sit rehashing all the poo we went through: He Said This; I Said That; They Said The Other. What does that count after it was first said?
That’s all gone and it was rubbish all along. Much more important is the lesson to be learned and pulled forward from. That way we MIGHT meet someone reall and true. But, still, we might NOT!
Have we got ourselves? Can we walk? See? Talk? Do things? Earn money? Then we figure high amongst the Lucky Ones. Let’s use that and go out into this “mansion of many rooms” and have a good poke around.
Live the Life. You can’t buy it when it’s gone.
So, yes, grieve… but don’t make a meal of it or teach ourselves to wallow longer than we have to. And when we realise that we’re grieving something stuck on the bottom of our shoe, or a creation invented by ourselves – well, the world becomes our oyster, lol.
If we can mentally make a Man of an EU or AC, what can we not do?
Best Regards, Leonine.
@Leonine
“That needn’t stop a minute of our own precious Lives as well. Cry while you’re windsurfing, lol. Turn your tears into a best selling romance. Just don’t stop living.”
Well said! I am getting tired of rehashing and trying to understand *him*, and with the encouragement of many on here, I am taking care of myself more and more each day. I took myself shopping today – all alone for the first time in a long time, and I loved it! I have been so distracted for the last 14 months, I almost forgot what it was like to do something fun *by myself*, and I enjoyed my own company – imagine that! I found some really nice tops on sale too! I highly recommend a “self” shopping trip to help put the focus back on YOU. (unless you find shopping stressful, of course, lol)
We must not give up on love, and we must not give up on ourselves.
@Butterfly
(from the last post) so glad you have made your list of objectives to meet each day. You go girl!!!
Lol, Meant to be Happy – who cares about *him* when you can go shopping!!!!
@BradK,
Thank you for your feedback. I agree with you that maintaining an online profile while in a relationship is a big red flag even when it doesn’t result in a physical meeting. I came to know about his profile later in the relationship and then came to know that he was checking into the site quite frequently. You said, “history shows this is an emotional wall that he uses to manipulate others while refusing to get very involved. This habit makes it difficult for him to ever manage a meaningful interpersonal emotion-based relationship.” I think this is likely the case as well as using it as an ego stroke. Thank you for helping me make sense out of this behavior.
Oh NML, what a timely post! I met a guy online approximately two weeks ago. After several lengthy emails, he sent me his picture (I didn’t ask for it) as a means of putting a face to the person I had been speaking to. I acknowledged his photo and reciprocated with mine – when he responded, he said NOTHING about my photo (strike #1). We subsequently moved to talking on the telephone and he asked me if I’d like to go to see a film on Saturday evening. I agreed and we agreed to firm up the place/time on Saturday itself. I didn’t hear from him until almost 9 in the evening on Saturday (strike 2)! I surely did not pick up the phone and had thank-goodness already made other plans. He tried calling again yesterday…he did not leave a vmm on either day. I will not be waiting for strike three – he’s out! Am I disappointed, sure a bit. But more so, I’m pleased with myself for sussing out these these AC’s sooner and letting go of them…and that is thanks in a huge part to this website!!! Thank-you all.
@Leonine
“Relationships are often such crap (lying twice a week pretending to get off on what they’re doing, lol, come on – admit it girls! It ain’t THAT great, lol).”
I want to disagree with you … I want to … lol
“I feel like I’m just too old to even think about it.”
And what’s worse, I know there is no one else, ever. I’ve been trying to convince myself that everything will be okay, because my heart is so tied up in him – enough that I feel when this ends – and it will – that I’m totally done. I’m just hanging on as long as I can watching the darkness at the end of the tunnel creeping closer every day. It’s not like not believing in love, it’s knowing that this one was the forever one, and there will never be another.
I’ve been avoiding your site, telling myself that we can be the 5% that makes it – but yeah.
brokenhearted, I do not know your story but this sounds like the very depressed thoughts I had months ago, before I realized I had to go NC, It’s been months now and that grip of depressive thinking is gone.
Regarding the 5%… with incredible honestly and self awareness and incredible amounts of work, from both parties, I do believe that most anything can work, But two people having the strength and ability to work through big problems, thats the minority. Only you can decide his capacity for growth within your relationship.
Somedays I fleetingly do think he was the one, old habits maybe, but I also know at the same that if he was ” the one” then I sure as hell am destined to be a very happy spinster because he made me more miserable than happy most every day.
I feel for you, I really do. It’s a dark place we go to with the EUM. Lord, the one I knew even considered that darkness special Yet in my heart, I just don’t believe in that “one special person” forever thing.
Love is way too big a force to be confined like that.
Do you know how he was not “the one”?
How you feel now. If he had been the one, you would never have felt that way in the first place. You sound just like me, exactly as I felt earlier this year, he was “all that” and more.
Thankfully I have wised up. I am fairly convinced he reads sites like these to get pointers, by the way, hindsight being the wonderful thing is it I see now more than skillful manipulation and a runing commentary. I place that next to my thoughts of having lost “the one” and realise I have my sanity back!
If all you allow yourself to look at is a black spot, you can’t see everything else around it … which is what you need to look at. The black spot possibly will never totally leave, but it will get smaller and drift out of view. It won’t be your life. Only you can make this happen.
Yes I too am scared I will never meet anyone else, but what good is creating our own self fulfilling prophesy? I can’t have kids, I am not close to my family, I’ve burned my bridges in my homeland pretty much and I have walked away from not one but two EUM relationships which got pretty snarkled up (and between the two of them was enough of a facade of one healthy one that I stayed there). You just have to let life happen. Does he really deserve so much of you when he gave you nothing but pain?
I have a question about NC,is it suposed to be kept permanently? I see the point of going trough that to move on and heal from the break up but there will come a point where I will have to drop it and stop ignoring the ex right?
I have other question,why the EUM cant get that when we love somebody we like to be around and are interested on how that person is or what she been doing? I tried to explain that to him milion times but he never seemed to get it.
Brokenhearted – was it NML who said the only ‘one(s)’ that are worth crying over are the ones that won’t make you cry? I’m sorry for what you are going through – I don’t know your story either but I know and understand those same feelings about ‘him’ being the one and only and quite possibly the only time you’ve ever felt like you were in love. You wonder how can I ever have these feelings again for someone else (or at my stage of the game – why should I even bother – it’s just going to end badly!!)?
Maybe it’s like when I had my children – I loved my son sooo much I worried about when my daughter was born that I wouldn’t love her as much (stupid I know – but true!). But — turned out to be not a problem. You have room in your heart for so much love. I feel a part of me will always love my recent ex and I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I had so many experiences with him that I had never enjoyed before – I will cherish them forever. I also did some really stupid things to be with him – but that’s all part of the experience.
I guess the point is that these are things that are in the past – where they belong for me because things change, feelings change, people do crappy things that make everything change… you get the picture. You have no control over anything or anybody except your own self.
Hang in there. I know it’s really really hard to see past the present and the pain but have hope —
@ Leonine
You’re so right on so many points. Luv the insight.
“we do have to grieve…but only a dream! A fallacy!”
It’s funny, but this is the ONE thing that keeps me in reality, and keeps me NC – and I think it is SUCH an important “aha moment” for fbgs. Whenever I start thinking about contacting him again and engaging in the relationship, I realize that everything I’m missing about him and “us” is a dream, my dream – it was never real. And everything that is real about “us” is mediocre to LAME, or it flat out makes me miserable. Who wants that? Really…why bother?
“That way we MIGHT meet someone reall and true. But, still, we might NOT!”
I think all of us need to accept that we may never “meet someone.” We may be single forever, and that could actually ROCK 😉 I’m there!
” And when we realise that we’re grieving something stuck on the bottom of our shoe, or a creation invented by ourselves – well, the world becomes our oyster, lol.”
“If we can mentally make a Man of an EU or AC, what can we not do?”
No doubt!
Love.
Hello good people. Please help me with this… great guy and everything going along fine for seven months. Beginning of July he does a 360 and says he can’t be in a relationship, not over his divorce, misses ‘family’ life (kids are grown and gone, has grandkids, ex-wife living with the man she left him for). Yet he txts that he misses me, thinks about me constantly, asks what I want, tells me how bad he feels. I miss his sweet warm body next to me at night… I miss his company… We took care of our grandkids together, chores side by side, cooking, sharing wine. I’m in shock really. So how do I not give up on love? All I can think about is how lonely the nights are now. We’re both 49 so not young and stupid. I don’t know what happened but I do know I don’t want to be alone anymore. Before him I had been alone for a very long time and now he’s ruined that for me (being lonely but okay with being alone).
miimaa: Please can you say: if he texts you and you reply does the conversation carry on and lead somewhere? Do you reply then there is nothing again? It’s hard to say on so little information, not every man who takes a step back is playing games or emotionally unavailable … it depends on so many factors. Hugs.
I reply and we text back and forth a few times. Does it lead anywhere? In circles. He’s not playing games – he is miserable. Tells me he is lonely and sad BUT also says can’t be in a relationship right now. I accept that, I don’t ask questions or try to convince him of anything. How do I not give up on love though when a man tells you he loves you but can’t be in a relationship? I know he’s having a difficult time and I’m leaving him alone. If he texts or calls I answer, I’m nice to him, but maybe this contact is just prolonging the agony.
Oh btw I am positive there isn’t anyone else. He doesn’t have time for that!! I know how busy he likes to be. Keeps himself constantly working because I think he doesn’t have to think that way.
He didn’t want a divorce, she did. I’ve known this guy all my life, know the ex-wife too. She wanted a divorce years ago but he didn’t. Finally she said that was it, she didn’t love him and he had to leave. He didn’t see it coming. Told me he knew things weren’t right but still didn’t think she’d leave. It’s been a year and that isn’t enough time for him, is it?
Sounds like he is emotionally unavailable though. Maybe he has been through the male version of what men put us through, maybe there’s a whole back story …
The main question is this: How is it making you feel? If you are feeling bad then you HAVE to think of yourself, your needs and your esteem – you’ve already seen that your peace of mind has been unsettled (unsettled – not ruined – a little rocked maybe but he does not have the power to ruin it, you have to choose to allow him to do that).
Perhaps telling him straight “I like you but if you need space to decide then we should call it quits, you are hurting me” is the way forward. What do you ladies think?
Yeah I feel bad, lonely, confused. I don’t want to be alone anymore and after reading NML’s post asking myself how do I not give up. Like someone posted up thread there is not a lot out there. Seems most of the single men my age are a little strange. Into computers or booze or chasing young gals. I’m staying busy and starting some new projects plus I have a grandson that I adore and now have more time to spend with. I don’t want to give up ever finding a life partner but looks pretty bleak right now. Feeling sorry for myself 🙁
Brad……
I completely agree that keeping an active online profile when you’re in a relationship is totally wrong. I faced this issue with my ex and it was one of the first red flags that popped up in our relationship. He never met an ex he didn’t want to stay in touch with. These women were always IM’ing him and we had several fights about it. Even when we became exclusive and took down our online profiles I found he continued online communication through IM. So I consider online profiles, constant IMing or txting to be very intrusive in a relationship. There is only one reason a man would continue to do that and that’s to keep his options open and receive ego strokes from other women. Whenever I would object to his IM’mg he would say they were only friends and try to make it look like there was something wrong with me for objecting to it. This is a huge problem in a relationship and EUM’s love online communication because it’s a very lazy way to stay connected and EUM”s are almost always lazy communicators.
Anusha…
On the NC question, I would say if you were involved with an EUM that NC is probably permanent because as soon as you give them the slightest attention they take it as a sign you’re interested again and may start pursuing you. You’ll find yourself back to square one emotionally. If you’re not interested in being in the “friend zone”, which to me is just a demotion from gf, then what is the point? I think if you meet them in a social setting or have to work with them you can be cordial but I don’t see anyway keeping in contact with them, even months after a breakup, would be beneficial.
miimaa
When they say they love you but don’t want to be in realtionship…LISTEN. I heard that a year ago, and I still hung on and believed I could make him want to be with me. We were together 1.5 years and he played the I’m not ready card…NOT READY? If I would have listened 1.5 years ago when we started this, I wouldn’t be so devastated right now. When someone shows you their true self….believe them. I am so in love with this man and he wants to stay friends, it is very hard to do that when you have strong feelings. I told him if I had only wanted to be friends, I wouldn’t have given him my heart in the first place. I am working very hard at getting over this. But I do believe that men who use this for an excuse, will never commit to you if they know you are ok with this scenario. Doormat or fallback girl comes to mind. Run the other way and don’t look back!
I probably have a bad slant on things – but sounds like he’s keeping you on a string right now for his own benefit. He wants his freedom, but he doesnt want you to have yours (emotionally anyway). He knows you care about him and seems to be using that power at the moment to keep you interested in him, even when he’s not ready for a relationship with you.
He may also know or sense that you are worried that he is your last great hope at finding someone — so he figures you’ll stick around and wait for him no matter what? (Seems like a bad position to be in for you!)
What bothers me a little is his use of the victim card – he feels bad about what he’s doing. If he feels so bad, why is he doing it?
I’m a cynic – so I think if there is no one else right now, there at least may be the possibility of someone else and this is the core of why he ‘cant be in a relationship right now’. Maybe he thinks if shares that part with you — you’d be gone. If he phrases it as – he cant be in a relationship right now – that’s easier for you to live with and you’ll stick around until he’s ‘ready.’
Just my 2 cents – like I said though – I’m a little cynical right now so take it with a grain of salt 🙂
miima, how sad, and butterfly raises a good point… not everyone who takes a step back, or freaks out or whatever is EUM/ EUW. But what is important is how willing they are to work with the things that drove the emo unavailable behavior when it causes a problems in the relationship. Or as NML said somewhere ( paraphrased) ….what happens after the negative behavior occurs ? There is plenty of good info all over this site to help you take a hard look at the relationship.
My best friend has been married to an EUM for decades. It’s a tough road but she is fully committed to raising her kids and working on herself so she does not get taken down by the worst of his hurtful behavior. He does not cheat but he’s just so “not there” so often.
But, he also sees that there is a problem and is willing to work on it some. Slow going, but luckily my friend has the patience of a saint. I recently read a bit of a book her therapist highly recommended and found it really worthy. It’s called Hold Me Tight… it addresses the core of insecurity that drives a lot of the EUM behavior, and includes insights in how both parties can work on it.
I think something that gets people to attempt to talk honestly at the first sign of this EU business is the best hope. Lots of people get scared, do stupid things, take steps backwards, based on fears and insecurities. But is it does not dealt with the EU behavior can spiral downward into drama and longing and other assorted hurtful and unhealthy stuffs.
And if a person is not willing to address it intelligently, in a meaningful way, that certainly is a sign of a pretty unsatisfying relationship ahead. uhhh, ask me how I know ;-))
That’s the thing about this site: can reply on the people to be there for us!
miimaa, I do think you have perhaps misunderstood NML’s post though. Take some time to read some of the other articles, because her message is meant to be positive in that we should not be wasting our time, spirit and love on men (or women) who CAN’T love us back and are not themselves wanting to change. What she is not saying is “hang on in there” in a bad circumstance …
I’m glad there’s others around for you, I am not so much use today, I’m backsliding a lot (maybe subconciously I know it’s now longer than it ever was without contact? maybe it’s cos my other ex is moving in with someone he doesn’t love, has told me he wants me back and just a whole mishmash of hurt feelings there – truly, I wish him to be happy, even though I know the chances for him are low and that he will hurt this girl in the process because he is not over me even more than I am still struggling with thoughts of my ex-ass today). I’m putting it down to period cramps!!
Thank you all.
Butterfly… I didn’t read her post as saying to stick with a bad situation but as don’t give up believing that there is someone out there that will love and cherish you.
Life can sure look gloomy for a lonely lady and I’m lonely now. It’s hard to stay positive and believe that you will be loved by a good man when you look around and see nothing. No one. The spot next to you in bed is cold. Dinner alone most nights. Television keeps you company.
Oh I go out and have people to call but you know what I mean. I liked sleeping next to him, with his arms around me. I liked cooking dinner together, watching tv together. That kind of stuff is what I miss and it’s not the same with a girlfriend or a cat or a dog. It’s lonely and it makes me angry! Angry that he is a mess right now and doesn’t know which way is up, angry that he’s running away because it wasn’t hard being together, angry that he’s gone, angry that he tells me he misses me but he’s there and I’m here.
What about when the EUM is one way in the begining of the relationship and other later? I mean how to reconize he is EUM if he is acting like a normal guy?
@myalmostlover — Thanks for posting your perspective of the online dating profile issue. My EUM and I met in person so I didn’t know he had an active online dating profile until well after we were exclusive and later in the relationship. I indirectly confronted him about it and he removed it, or hid it, who knows. He probably felt safe keeping an active profile thinking I wouldn’t ever be on the site. Before I knew about his profile, we had conversations about online dating. I told him I thought it seemed to be more of a virtual world of fantasy. He said he’d met some very nice people through online dating. He talked about how it was an ego boost when someone tags you as a favorite. I responded, “It depends on who tags you as a favorite” to which he responded, “You’re not normal.”
On another note, during the relationship I only knew about one ex that my EUM maintained contact with. They consulted with each other abut their relationships and got together occasionally. He never hid this from me and I always thought it was very strange. I knew she still had the hots for him but he was insistent that this wasn’t the case. One night he called me up all frantic because she had tried to come onto him. He seemed genuinely shocked but I thought to myself, if she tried to come onto him he must have been giving out some signal!! WEIRD!!
Looking back, he likely had a slew of other exes and fallback girls that he kept in touch with electronically. With us, he never wanted to use text messages or e-mail, said he didn’t understand why people communicate this way when they can use the phone. Looking back, I’m sure he was engaged in LOTS of electronic communication through the online dating site and likely with his fallback harem. So what gives?? Why was he so opposed to communicating through this format with me?? Perhaps his intent was to create an image of himself to me that was contrary to who he really is.
Anusha: Imean how to reconize he is EUM if he is acting like a normal guy?
I think people tell us who they are, but sometimes we just don’t want to see or hear it. We project our ideals onto them and give them the qualities we wish (or assume) they had. I think there’s a point when we start to feel uneasy or unsettled or insecure (warning sign!!!) but we ignore that feeling, especially if we’ve invested any time/emotion in the man. They say it usually takes 3-5 months for the infatuation to wear off and a person to show their true colors. Might be wise to hold back a bit, not jump into anything, be a little more reserved, a little more aware… I think unless we recover and heal from the AC/EUM “addiction” we’re going to zero in on the same type of men (or they’ll zero in on us) so it’s important to pay attention…. “butterflies” in the stomach could really be nausea… the AC/EUM making us sick again.
Giving up on love doesn’t mean that I’m feeling sorry for myself (very often) or that I’m bitter. I’ve been “loved by a good man.” But I’ve never been “looking” and wasn’t expecting to fall into this strange and wonderful (and passionate and joyful and heartbreaking etc,etc,etc)relationship. For I’ve found myself to be the OW, you see. And after this I will have nothing left, for I plan to patiently expend every bit of my romantic soul.
We often write about the AC that walks away without trying to resolve problems, that is scared of intimacy, that won’t be responsible or handle conflicts, that won’t take a leap of faith. I won’t be that AC .
So what is, is. I’m too old to do this again and if this once I can’t have my happily-ever-after, then I give up. But that’s just me. I still plan to have a strong, self-confident life.
You’re right, miimaa, there aren’t many good ones our age – we ALL have baggage at this point! I hope he gets his head together to see what a treasure you are.
Anusha, you need to download NML’s book: Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback girl, this will answer a lot of your questions. If you want to know the warning signs, this is a must read. Have you read her other posts, like “How to spot Mr. Emotionally Unavailable”?
Search her posts, when I first found this website I was reading a whole weekend, would shower and eat, read some more and was like OMG, OMG. This site is packed with great information.
TJ, about the “butterflies”, I used to feel that way and then realized this sick feeling was because I was walking on eggshells.
miimaa, I hope you don’t mean that, there are good people out there at any age, so don’t feel that you are too old to find the right partner.
Age has nothing to with that, I think that a@@clown get worse with age, because they are messed up to begin with, for a normal person, male or female, the mind does not change just the body.
A screwed up person is screwed up period, at the age of 20, 30,40 and so on, doesn’t matter, screwed up is screwed up.
I have not giving up on love, my life is good so far, if a great partner can enrich my life, that would just be great.
Miimaa,
I was thinking about your posts today, and I hear what you wrote about you about being lonely and thinking that your man who has asked for space from you might have been “the one.”
I don’t know how you found this web-site, but you must have been seeking answers and looking for support.
If you and this fellow are meant to be together, I hope you two can work on it together and find a good plan for the rest of your lives.
But, if you are feeling lonely and unsure, and you don’t know for sure how he feels anymore, it might be time to move past it and figure out what is next for your life.
From my own experience, the loneliness can last awhile, but as you establish a break from him and get further away from it for awhile, if the guy doesn’t come back to you and really commit, you sort of have your answer as to where he stands. I don’t know if that makes sense.
There is a really good song that I’ve always loved, but just really currently applied to my life, and it is called “Good to be Lonely” or “It’s Good To Be Lonely” and it was written and performed by Julian Lennon.
Maybe you’re going through a time where “it’s good to be lonely.”
Even though it hurts right now, you’ll figure it out and be stronger eventually.
Best to you.
@miimaa – I do understand and sorry for my error. I’ve been telling my story in dribs and drabs as I can bear to – I know all about the empty bed. I am not proud of myself – I stayed for 10 years with someone who was emotionally and verbally abusive who also played the victim card AND I managed to get myself involved very distructively with my ex-ass probably cos he was making all the right noises and my need to change my life. When all that ended I have moved to another country, I hardly know anyone and far from “being unable to live without me” the first ex had a new girlfriend within three days … he is now moving in with her because he cant cope with life alone (I made myself poor by paying to move him into an apartment and moving our shared stuff which I bought and let him keep) … so I do know. I am 42, and I now live somewhere I consider highly unlikely to produce many opportunities to meet anyone as – how ironic – it is a country which really does still believe in marriage as a sacrement so they are all married.
Most of the people here have their support network of family, friends etc … I have nobody much and I can’t express myself in the local language, but I am going to ride out my year cos most of the time it is very rewarding.
The more I have thought about it, the more I think you probably are better telling him “come back when you are ready to commit” and then write him off. You are betting on potential … I’d read NML’s book personally. Hugs.
I don’t need to say much …just that I LOVE you all. There ya go , Love won’t die as long as I’m around.
Thank you Lisa. Really GOOD advice — “if the guy doesn’t come back to you and really commit, you sort of have your answer as to where he stands.”
and Butterfly thank you also for this — ” “come back when you are ready to commit†and then write him off. You are betting on potential”
We were childhood friends and it was easy to fall into comfortable friends and lovers relationship. It’s not the end of the world and in the big picture this is not going to ruin my life. I’m really feeling the disappointment and loss this week.
Thanks everyone. You are all great. It takes another set of eyes and another brain sometimes to see the light.
@Astelle-I read NML’s post about “How to spot a EUM”.The problem with my ex is that he wouldnt show any of the warning signs in the begining.He would act as a sweet guy that was very into the relationship.For example he would talk to me for hours and was always doing/saying something sweet.And later on the relationship I had to praticaly force him for him to talk with me for 2 hours.Is like he totaly changed.He showed later that he wasnt a guy that liked much contact and that wasnt sweet often but why on the begining of the relationship he was then? With the information I got here I guess maybe he was just blowing hot to get me and once he felt secure that I had felt for him he started blowing cold.Even though he wasnt acting like a EUM on the begining he didnt treat me very well so I guess that was something to watch out for too.
myalmostlover,
I see a different problem with keeping in touch with exes, with keeping an online profile while dating – with flirting with others while dating.
Whether you consider this sloppy relationship discipline, predatory habits, or refusal to commit – anyone that doesn’t understand that ending a relationship is necessary to be available for anyone will never have both feet in *any* relationship.
Consider a toddler, tottering from one bright and shiny object of attention to the next. Some are delights, some are terrors, and none hold the attention for more than moments.
The danger I see in keeping contact with exes, with flirting, and with paying attention to possible new bed mates – is that they aren’t *there* in the relationship. When you spend attention on others, you neglect your partner and yourself. It may be fun, like a trip to Six Flags. But Six Flags closes each day. They sweep up the debris, they empty the trash. But a toddler doesn’t want the day to end, to leave behind the fantasy and the memories. Parents learn (or should!) that vacations, special events, celebrations, indulgences – end. That we give ourselves to the experience, and if it ends, carry away the best parts (or the horror stories, or NML would be quietly writing her way to health with no company at all!).
What I mentioned about taking out trash is about the baggage, the emotional ties, and not a reference to people we part from. Carrying anger, disgust, fear – these are baggage that bind us to the past. Reclaiming control over our ties to the past, to dysfunctional and dangerous people, is one of many steps we can take to take control over our lives. This is not about forgiving or forgetting. Merely refusing to empower old ties will let them dwindle in relationship to concerns of the day, and let us move on with life.
The Tarot Major Arcana card 13, the death card, and the Lightning Struck Tower both symbolize the transition from what has gone before, to a changed life. Whether a traumatic destruction of what had been, or a quieter but more complete severing of what had been is *necessary*, to allow and embrace change, and to enter into the changed life to come. When he keeps contact with exes, he fails to let change occur – he relives what went before for the rest of his life. He can *not* be considered available, if he is distracted by others from the past, present, or future.
This is not about social faux pas like picking your nose in public. This is not about respect, exactly, or lying. The issue that concerns me is that someone that cannot let go telegraphs that they don’t understand how to hold on. They may never have seen a reason to let go of home, never found someone so wonderful they embrace them without looking back, that they never cut the apron strings to home or have never seen a reason to give themselves to a shared life.
I guess someone could choose a partner like this. You would have to assume that your partner would *never* be more involved with you than a close friend. Family would be habit, not a life goal. You would risk losing them to whim, distraction, or interference from others. They would likely be low maintenance – would neither need, nor be able to provide, much emotional support or involvement. Shallow, I think is the concept that comes to mind. On good days this would be an amiable companion. On bad days you would likely expect support and help that he would never, ever think was appropriate.
That is what bothers me about someone that can’t recognize the danger of keeping their ex in their lives. That they never make room for a life-mate.
@Anusha – I think you have answered your own question, and your ex was likely “blowing hot†at the beginning, and then started to blow cold when he knew you were developing feelings for him. I found the same with my ex-EUM. At first we would chat for hours, almost every night, sometimes till really late even though both of us had to get up early the next day. Sometimes I would suggest it was time to go, and sometimes he would. But *he* always asked when we could chat next. Then, after about 3 months, and after I told him I was developing feelings for him, he started to communicate less often, and he would start to end our chats after shorter and shorter periods of time. And then he went to the “I’m good with chatting once a week, plus a couple of emails†spiel. I do think guys like talking on the phone, or chatting online less than we women do, whether they are EU or not.
You mentioned your EUM wasn’t treating you very well – was that right from the beginning? If so, that was a red flag you could have picked up on. Besides that, I think in the beginning it can be hard to tell that they are EUM – but from my understanding, maybe EUM’s “blow hot†even more than an emotionally available guy at first. Maybe they are a little over the top at first, where a normal guy would just be “very warm†as opposed to hot? Or maybe it’s just hard to tell at first unless they have some of those other signs like: not over an ex, can only express feelings physically, etc, that NML pointed out. I guess we just need to take things slowly at first, and let them “show us who they are†over the first several months. If things get better and better instead of hot and cold, that would be a great sign!
I’m not positive about any of this, but just how I see things. I hope you’re having one of your “good days†Anusha. Hugs to you.
@Meant to be Happy-OMG my ex was exactaly like yours!!!!!! Even the coment about Im fine with a chatt per week and a few emails he would do too.I know that guys dont like phones and chatts like we women do but I know a lot of people that have a LDR(mine was like that too) that call and chatt everyday.Most of them,the bfs calls everyday and more than once a day even.My ex would almost never call and he was happy with chatting once a week or less even.
Yes he wasnt treating me well since the begining.He admited that he would take out on me his anger from other problems that had nothing to do with me.And he would set up chatts and dont show up(and didnt let me know he couldnt make it too),ignore me when he was mad and so on.It went like that for the first 3 years we were together.What you said made me think.Yes he was “super hot” in the begining,I mean he said he was falling for me and wanted to come over on his holidays to meet me just after 3 days that we been chatting.We were just chatting by then,he had never seen me in real life yet.We would talk a lot about sex too,I remember that on the first day we started chatting we talked about it already (so I think that can go under just can express fellings phisicaly).I think maybe I was so anxious to find a bf that I just jump in too fast without giving it time to know him more.I took what I saw from him on the begining and thought that was how he was.Thank you for your answer and yes Im on one of my good days today 🙂 Hugs.
@Brad K., does myspace register as a “dating site”? And it’s funny that so many of these unavailable assclowns have hundreds of friends on their space. They’ll post very vague, ambiguous statements on random pages. One moment they’re commenting on one girl’s profile with something that can be interpreted 10000 ways, and the next moment they comment to someone else. As far as not being able to cut apron strings, my ex lived with his mother and the rest of the family. When discussing his exes, he said our relationship was the rockiest. According to him, it’s not that i’m beautiful or they he loves me, it’s that they were all beautiful and he’ll always love them TOO (his words). Even when it came to sex, what was important to me (my values, virginity, monogamy), he strangely turned it around and said “I wonder if anyone from my past was like that and I didn’t know about it…” Instead of listening to what I said, it was SCARY how he’d brush it off and immediately put attention to his past. And then he wondered why I had a complex about his exes! Because we were many states apart, my ex EUM once asked me what my problem was with him observing other women. (Because distance was his rationalization). In fact, he questioned why I had a problem with him hanging out at DJing events with his friends (both single and attached), and no, because I was in another state–I never went. We’d have fights (which wouldn’t start off that way, but escalate) and then mid-conversation after very little of his input, he’d declare he’s going to see his friends and of COURSE his friends brought THEIR friends and it was officially mingle time at the turntables. By the time I called him, he was over there and I was humiliate, dubbed the crazy clingy girlfriend that can’t let go.
Have you girls ever been in the same situation?
@BradK — You said: “The danger I see in keeping contact with exes, with flirting, and with paying attention to possible new bed mates – is that they aren’t *there* in the relationship. When you spend attention on others, you neglect your partner and yourself. It may be fun, like a trip to Six Flags. But Six Flags closes each day. They sweep up the debris, they empty the trash. But a toddler doesn’t want the day to end, to leave behind the fantasy and the memories. Parents learn (or should!) that vacations, special events, celebrations, indulgences – end. That we give ourselves to the experience, and if it ends, carry away the best parts (or the horror stories, or NML would be quietly writing her way to health with no company at all!).”
I understand “not wanting the day to end” as it pertains to those of us hanging onto the fantasy of a healthy relationship with an EUM that in the beginning seemed like a day at Six Flags. What I don’t understand is why the EUM wants to hang on and keeps coming back to preserve a relationship the he’s “managed down” from a day at Six Flags to a swim in a murky pond. Why doesn’t he leave the “pond water” relationship behind as he moves on to other “Six Flags” relationships. If he’s managed the relationship down to “pond water,” what’s he getting out of continuing to swim in the murky pond? I would think Six Flags would be enough to hold all his attention and the pond water would be little more than a distraction.
@SomethingSomethingDarkSide — You said, “he strangely turned it around and said “I wonder if anyone from my past was like that and I didn’t know about it…†Instead of listening to what I said, it was SCARY how he’d brush it off and immediately put attention to his past.”
My ex EUM was constantly comparing me favorably with his exes. Ex: “She did _____ but you aren’t like that. She did _____ that made me uncomfortable but you don’t.” yada yada yada I always thought it was very strange that he’d verbalize his comparisons to me in this way. This guy thought out loud alot!! I don’t think this constant comparison is normal. Looking back, I think what was going on in his mind was, “you’re better, you’re better, you’re better, you’re better . . . BUT, you’re not good enough.” He had much earlier described himself as a perfectionist to me. Toward the end of the relationship he said, “You’re 75% of what I want and I don’t know if I should settle.” I did not respond kindly to that!! I think he is on a quest for the perfect woman which we all know doesn’t exist except in fantasy. Someone said to me he’s looking for a five star hotel when he’s only a two star.
@ Brad “Consider a toddler, tottering from one bright and shiny object of attention to the next. Some are delights, some are terrors, and none hold the attention for more than moments.” Wonderful, thank you. If I had been listening I’d have listened to “I am easily distracted by shiny things. I dunno, I chase butterflies, it’s a miracle I haven’t been run over in the road” and HEARD what it said instead of thinking he was being cute … “Shallow” … yep, you said it.
@Meant – hi sweetie. They DO blow hotter than normal – it’s now become one of my red flags. Case in point a week or two ago “You better get used to compliments because there are going to be a lot of them” sayeth he … sounds great doesn’t it? I was instantly wary – next time we talked (and i mean the next time) he was all “there were loads of really pretty girls there” and telling me about the “birds” – I ended it not too much later and he was furious saying that he should have a say in who he saw or not … I was quite sad about this as I thought we would have a lot to talk about (and we would have, and I think we know where it would lead, right?)
@Serena. Something … yeah he talked about his exes ALL the bloody time. I actually said to him the first time I walked that I hoped I wasn’t going to become one of his sob stories (“she wanted me but she married someone else” was one which came up twice and made me go HMMM but I didn’t listen to my instincts … never again!!!!). I’ll be “She wanted me but then she left and went to a country in Europe” no doubt. Idiot 🙂
Sorry to repost, just to clarify – when he was saying he should have a right to decide who he saw or not he meant *me* i.e. that I had no right to deprive him of the right to choose to dump me. I wish these posts could be edited!
NML … you are on a roll. Your words are inspiring – here, recently, they have touched me deeply.
I’m beginning to wonder if this is because you have been touched by super-inspiration or because I am finally ABLE to really understand – deep inside my heart and soul – what ou are saying and what the truth really is …
Maybe I’m healing after all?
@Butterfly
“when he was saying he should have a right to decide who he saw or not he meant *me* i.e. that I had no right to deprive him of the right to choose to dump me” – wow, what an ego. Not to mention that he likes to “objectify” women by calling them (us) “birds”, and by telling *you* all about the pretty women he saw. Hmmmm, not sure I’d want compliments from this man either, no matter how hot he was blowing!
@ Serena,
“What I don’t understand is why the EUM wants to hang on and keeps coming back to preserve a relationship the he’s “managed down—.
What I meant to say was that to be healthy, we have to recognize that sometimes things end. We move on as best we can. Healthy adults should have learned that living in the past denying what went before and what ended, wastes our time, our effort, our love, and is unfair to those we cherish.
Why does the EUM hang on past the bitter end, grasping to renew the dregs of what might have been? Mostly because he doesn’t know any better. Partly because he fears having to start over, partly because losing “control of his wimmin” is unmanly and tarnishes his self image and reputation. And, yes, I do think such a dude deserves pity and not condemnation, as long as you keep a safe enough distance away. Three states seems to be about the right distance.
@ SomethingSomethingDarkSide,
You said, “And it’s funny that so many of these unavailable assclowns have hundreds of friends on their space. They’ll post very vague, ambiguous statements on random pages.”
I consider most EUM’s to be perpetual daters. People with no concept of home, no interest in sharing lives, and resentful of anything that might interfere with their next date. Their life-skill of winning bed partners is *important* to them, and they continue to practice up for the rest of their lives.
If you want a puppy to enrich your home, get a puppy, not a cat. If you want a life-mate, run away from the bed-partner chasers.
Thanks NML! Just started dating again and am noticing myself thinking in terms of ‘the one’ and letting myself go insecure over these guys. Needed to hear this.
I don’t think most men really care about relationships and certainly not the way women do.
With so many women willing to play house with a man, there is no incentive for a man to have anything really long term.
I think many can have the 3-7 year relationships and then move on to another model when the are bored.
Women give the men everything without them having to make a commitment.
Before reading this I was feeling pretty low. Its been exactly a year since I have been out with any men of any description. I just had to stop dating because I was seeing a parade of idiots. I thought it would be better to retreat and focus on having a happy life.
During this time my little sister got married and my older sister has found the man of her dreams and is moving in with him next week. And my happily married best friend had a baby. Meanwhile, I have gained weight and got depressed. However, there are two ways I can think about this- poor me will never find love or have kids- or- my sisters and best friend have proved there are men out there who are decent so its not completely hopeless. Yeh its lonely but at the moment there is nothing I can do about it. Except go back to dating scumbags and there is no way I will do that. I do feel like I have given up on love – romantic love with a man. But at least I’m not kidding myself any more. I feel lost a lot of the time but some of these posts have made me think that I worry too much about the future instead of just enjoying the present.
pigsly,
I think the point here is that you tried idiots and bozos before. Now is the time to bolster your self confidence, and start checking a guy’s character, before whatever you have been checking out.
Being more active, connecting and interacting with more people may help with the depression. Paul Harvey claimed that someone’s research found that listening to rock music worked faster and was more effective that anti-depressants. Another thing – look at the lighting in your home. Depressed people often prefer shade and darkness. Deliberately letting in more light can make a big difference. Sleep patterns are another place to look – make sure your sleep area is dead dark. Even a night light can affect your sleep, sleeping with TV or lights on definitely ambush that healing sleep. Ask at your pharmacy about melatonin, taken in the evening it can help make sleep patterns more regular.
What I really meant to say, before I got side-tracked, was that sometimes we need a break to heal. But we have to work at healing, too. Once the initial freedom-from-pain hits, we have to work on rehabilitation, getting reflexes and strength back in line to go on with life. That may be with a partner, or may not. In either case, you will be better suited to proceed with life with a good understanding and belief in yourself. For one thing, if you believe in yourself, you won’t tell a guy that gives you crap to stop – you will tell him to hit the road, permanently. Call it boundaries, call it self esteem and values, character – there is a world of things to see and do, before deciding you don’t dare try love again.
Luck.
.-= Brad K.´s last blog ..br: Comments on Compatibility, Your Type, and Common Interests part 4 =-.
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you generalize against guys wayyyy too much….you make us to be cold hearted ‘easy to move’ on dufus’…and that’s not true at all….you gals are blessed in being raised to open up and share your emotions of heartache with one another…vs us guys in which this isn’t a cool thing at all (despite being told it’s ok to nowadays)…instead we suck it up and stuff it down for the most part.