When you’re interested in someone or you’re already in what feels like the cozy glow of a burgeoning relationship, the words, “I don’t want a relationship” along with its variants such as “I’m not ready for a relationship”, “I’m not over my ex”, “I can’t give you what you want”, and “I don’t know what I want right now”, are the last thing you want to hear, so much so that you might choose not to hear them, or put it down to a wobble, or wonder where you screwed up. You have to hear these words, it’s not just a “wobble”, and it’s not something you’ve said or done or failed to be or do.
Dating is a discovery phase where we get to know each other and ascertain trustworthiness including shared values. The relationship that we progress into is further exploration of that.
People unfold, and relationships do too.
Everything’s all great when it’s hypothetical–and we all have ideas about what we want, need, feel and expect–but how this plays out in reality is something that can only be revealed over time. We also agree to things and commit in stages along the way–relationships are full of micro-agreements and micro-commitments long before any major commitments are made. This is something I talk about in my post on phased-in commitment. It’s also why it’s foolhardy to jump to expecting big commitments with someone we in truth hardly know, when we don’t have enough experience of the smaller stuff yet and are running on feelings.
At the point where someone turns around and says, “I don’t want a relationship” or similar, they’re saying, “I don’t or will not in the future, consent to being in the type of relationship you’re looking for (or that I think you’re looking for). I’m letting you know now so that you (and I) can manage your expectations”. It may not be pleasant, pretty or even convenient for us to hear this, but hear it and respect it we must.
We might be all lubed up as such for a relationship, but they’re having second thoughts. It’s time for us to snap out of whatever we thought we were in and get grounded in what’s going on.
- They may have overestimated readiness or desire for a relationship but as they’re becoming aware of what’s involved and how they would have to show up, they’re backtracking. It may well be the case that they’re not over one or even several of their exes or that there’s too much unresolved stuff from the past which is impacting on their ability to show up.
- They might have claimed that they wanted a relationship so that they could enjoy the best of what’s on offer.
- They might be afraid of narrowing down their options to ‘just’ one person.
- They may well have known what they truly wanted and needed but didn’t say out of fear of confrontation which has resulted in telling us what they think we want to hear until their back’s against the wall.
- They may be well versed in casual relationships and know that it’s best to front like they’re up for everything and then switch up the terms and conditions where everything ends up on their terms.
- It might be that their fears are eclipsing their desire to be in a relationship.
Whatever it is, if we make it all about us, we deny their feelings and thinking. We decide that no meant something else.
Let’s imagine that we are interviewing for a partner for a joint venture:
After a first interview, we hit it off and meet up again so that we can find out more. Things are looking promising and based on what’s being said along the way and the way we feel when we’re in their company, we’re pretty sure that we want to go ahead and start formalising the venture and developing it.
- Maybe we give them the paperwork but it never gets signed, with umpteen reasons given and promises of returning it. They keep reassuring us that they’re in but the paperwork isn’t signed.
- Maybe they turn around and say, “Oooh… Awks… I… Erm…can’t put in the 100K but I have 10K” or, “You want us to do a joint venture? I didn’t realise that. Um, yeah, I can’t do that” or “This was a joint venture? I thought this was a [more casual arrangement]”.
- What about if they said, “I’m not ready right now but let’s just see how it goes” or, “Did I mention I’m still prospecting for other joint ventures? What? Ours would be exclusive? Hmmmmm”.
- Maybe they ‘suddenly’ realise that they’re not fully removed from their previous joint venture or that they have reservations after some prior experiences, or maybe there’s a silent partner that’s been sprung on you…
All of these are code red alerts that this person is not on the same page.
One of the hardest experiences in life is walking away even though it hurts. Disappointment, that gap between our hopes and expectations and what happens in reality, can be so frustrating–it can be tempting to hang in there. But certainly the more painful experience is hanging around in a relationship where our needs, desires and expectations are incompatible and where we are undervalued–by us and by them.
If they don’t want a relationship, it’s a wake-up call–we need to wake up to the realisation that we’re not on the same page.
We need to value us more than the dream. We need to respect their wishes but also respect ourselves too. We need to walk because us staying will not communicate our value. It’s like, Thanks for letting me know and it’s a shame that we want different things but I respect your wishes. I need to be with someone who wants the same thing as me. I wish you well and take care. If they try to angle for something casual, That wouldn’t work for me. I’m not the kind of girl/guy who’s going to hang about in something where you’ve said that it can’t go anywhere. I’m serious about getting serious. If you’re not, that’s OK but I need to be open to meeting someone who is.
That’s how you convey inherent value.
If you’re serious about being in a serious relationship, show you that you’re serious and don’t allow anyone to come along and shift your priorities to something lesser. If they don’t want a relationship and you do, you’re incompatible. They are unavailable for an available relationship. Filter out the time wasters, flip-flappers and people who ‘interview’ well. The longer you stay with them is the further away you are from the type of relationship that you say that you want. Stand up for what you want and believe and you will fine tune yourself closer to what you truly want.
Your thoughts?
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I think this applies to any kind of relationship, whether platonic same-sex friendships to romantic relationships.
I’ve experienced the emotionally unavailable female friend and emotionally unavailable boyfriend. Both, usually, give warnings that they suck at relationships but proceed anyway.
It’s soul sucking, self esteem shattering madness that will cause you to double guess your own intuition, make excuses for them (because when they do throw you that crumb of attention: yippee!!), and stay much longer in the push-pull seduction.
If it’s friendship or romantic relationship, do yourself a favor and leave. Don’t hang all of your hopes on what could be or base it on your fears of “but when will I ever feel this way again.”
You will. And with someone much better suited for you.
So true!
Over the last two years, I have backed away from those sort of friendships. Life is too precious to not have people who are unwilling or too afraid to emotionally engage all the way. I thought I would miss those people but I really don’t. It kind of took me by surprise as I thought I would feel more of a sense of loss. I guess you can’t lose something you never had!
I am blown away that I finally Finally found some people who have gone through or that are going thru it. By thru it I mean, for example, the demands he places on me when I’m spun and hurting, to remember a conversation word for word or it s deamed your imaginng things. Anything to get away from answer a simple and straight forward answer. I am in deep and is there someone I can talk to? I would just die if he found out I found this amazing website and such amazing people. I too am tiered of scrambling for crumbs. This man is intelligent. No doubt about it he is fully aware of what he puts me through. Yet I have stage 4 bone cancer and have had a number of different surgeres ,there is never an emotional break. The yelling and cursing first thing n the morning and then the sweet victim talk on the phone when he gets to the office. Someone please…..Pammy
What you say is absolutely true. It’s just hard when- in my situation, I gave the “too nice guy” who was handsome but that I wasn’t over the top attracted to, a chance. He came on way too strong, I had to ask him to slow down as we were just getting to know each other- he wanted to hang out all the time, talk constantly…
I finally gave in, after he asked me to attend an evening of hanging out with him while he played in a sports league. He was physically demonstrative, happy to introduce me to everyone. Men normally nowadays are reticent to hold hands in public much less kiss you in public, or have their arm around you, etc. so I opened up and let myself be vulnerable. I started to let myself fall for him.
I started to take his lead, said things like “I miss you” and was supportive. He went from one week of not wanting me to go home to the next- I got a text before work (of a really bad day that he knew I was going to have) that he had done a lot of thinking about us and wasn’t sure he could give me the time needed to date and it wasn’t fair to me. That he wanted to not ruin our friendship.
Obviously I’m beyond confused. He won’t tell me what happened. He was a nice guy. Now he’s hidden most of his FB from me but hasn’t unfriended me. Though he didn’t answer my text about it was inconsiderate in his method and timing and I just wanted to know what happened.
I feel like I let myself get vulnerable and then I get dumped. Sigh.
Hi Jana,
I know what it’s like to be where you currently are, believe me, I have been there. Each time it happened, several months later, once I got over the d**khead in question, I was mortified that I had even had a month or so of staying in touch and basically embarrassing myself by accepting scraps of their attention.
I’d go through a month or two of what you are currently experiencing, by staying in touch as *friends* over social media, wondering if I could change the guy’s mind, and then I would finally realise that maintaining any kind of contact was doing me no favours.
You need to block this guy on all forms of social media ASAP. It will feel like crap for maybe the first month, but after 6-8 weeks or so, you’ll be wondering why you didn’t cut all forms of communication sooner and be embarrassed that you didn’t cut him off the second that he let it be know that he didn’t want a real relationship with you.
Don’t obsess about why he appears to have changed his mind, as NML has pointed out in this piece, there could be endless reasons why he initially conveyed that he was serious and then backtracked. The only things that you can do which will tangibly help your piece of mind are to: 1) cut contact and 2) try and see if you can learn anything from your experience with him.
You seem to be identifying him coming on too strong as a HUGE red flag, and this is what I have personally learned from my last two interactions with men who were not the same page with me (about how serious we were).
They both came on way, way, too strong and although they knew me previously in person, they did all their flirting/seduction through online messages. I am past giving a toss as to why these two guys led me on just for sex, but I now know that if I am interested in a guy in future, who comes on too strong, I will be extremely wary, and I am not going to let a guy flirt with me extensively over text/whatsapp/facebook messenger, etc, ever again. If they’re interested, they can continue to meet with me in person, or jog on.
I totally agree with E – it’s *so* tempting to stay “friends” on social media with this idea that it’s “being nice” or “not holding a grudge” or whatever. Maybe they will even come back around and be everything we deserve… maybe I can just “take a peek” and see how he’s doing… (no, you can’t just take a peek… it’s not good for you… don’t do it… lol)
I unfriended him after the break up – but I did not *block.* Blocking seemed so harsh and unnecessary… but then, I would see information about him when he was tagged in mutual friend posts, in groups we were part of, etc. I started dreading looking at Facebook, always steeling myself for seeing random unwanted information about him.
I finally decided that blocking him was a gift to myself. It wasn’t punishment for him or some retaliation against him, etc. Blocking simply meant I wouldn’t see anything about him on FB. And anyone who tagged him I simply removed from my Newsfeed.
It took me some time to reach the blocking point but I have to tell you, it has expedited my healing so much not to be telling myself to “calm down” after seeing information about him on FB. It’s just not there at all, I don’t see him anywhere, I don’t judge myself for being sensitive to seeing information about him anymore – and I feel so much better. I don’t care what he thinks about me blocking him (if he even knows). I know it’s for *me* and *I* feel better.
…and by the way, good for you, E. Reading your post was so helpful to me too especially the “coming on too strong” + “e-contact heavy” as big red flags. It had me nodding my head, further reinforcing my decision to walk away from my exEUM too. Thanks.
You need to reevaluate yourself, sounds like a really nice guy gave you many opportunities to become the really nice girl and you allowed to hold yourself back because you were not sure if you wanted to be that for him. This log is the definition of what he did, he moved on knowing you weren’t 100%.
I thought the same as you, Taylor…at first. Jana was “meh” about him, and he was wild about her. But seeing how he has gone from hot to cold, I think for him it was always a game of winning her over. He may have felt he was too handsome to be ignored. So he came on hot…got some rewards for it – maybe sex, maybe just being able to tell she was now infatuated – and now he has won yet another heart and is ready to move on.
I’m sorry Jana, but I think it was all about the thrill of the chase for him. This “get into her head” game is very popular with a certain breed of men, because I think they’ve discovered how easily women will let themselves be manipulated. Toss a few dates, a few romantic texts, a few soap opera complications, a few ‘I’ve been hurt so now I’m afraid of love’ lines, and a woman will scale Mt. Everest to win a man’s love.
Yeeeessss.
I just realized that I have always been a pawn in my family: the empathy and love I have always had for my father my OWN FATHER used to make himself look like hot stuff to his wife, who he has always worshiped (when he married her, she was model-thin and model-gorgeous; she also comes from a great family, especially known for their great looks).
So my name is VERRRY appropriate. And this, very recent, realization explains a lot, not just in my own life, but also in the lives of MANY women I know.
Thank you, Nat, for the (timing of!) the recent blog about men who objectify–and, as a result, triangulate–women.
GOD BLESS YOU.
Reading this makes me scratch my head. It’s just adolescent for a grown man to behave like this. What do they think they’re winning? ‘Oh, I got her heart. Now I can sleep well, and move on.’ That doesn’t make any sense! And of course, we all think ‘hmm, what’s wrong with ME?’ Me? What’s wrong with him that this person keeps sabotaging love, fun, friendship and future? Really, what does he get. Nothing. These type of men are the sad creatures that eventually hire hookers because who else wants to cuddle and kiss a BIG RED FLAG. Sad.
Lots of men (and women) have such dire self-esteem issues that they will immediately lose respect for anyone that they “get”. Once a person is caught, and if that person does not continue to play cat and mouse games, the pursuer unconsciously assumes that anyone that would fall for them must have something wrong with them. They lose interest because they decide that their prey is broken and flawed for falling for their pursuits. Sad, but true for many people.
Think what you will, but where I live in the eastern US, the way he acted in the beginning was not “nice”, it bordered on weird. After our third date, we made plans to go on a fourth on the upcoming weekend. He accepted a last minute invitation to play in a “cornhole” tournament out of state and cancelled the date. He was very effusive in his being sorry and sad about going away. I was like, no worries, there will be other weekends to hang out and he kept on and on- even said “I know. But my mind and my heart were focused on being with you.”
WHO says stuff like that?!?!? We barely knew each other, which is what I told him. Also the “I miss you”s and emails daily complete with cutesy gifs and photos that he saw that made him think of me and his saying after our third date that he hadn’t wanted me to leave his home but wished I had stayed over, I told him that I move very slowly and I needed him to slow things down. That we were still getting to know each other.
After a few more dates, I came to the realization that I was really starting to like him. I reciprocated with some “I miss you”s. That I was excited to hang out. And then WHAM! This out of nowhere.
Mind you, we did not sleep together. Nor would I have, until we were in a relationship. He had his children every other weekend, played in this sports league two nights a week and accepted frequently last minute invitations to go out of town and out of state to play in tournaments in the weekends he did not have his kids.
His text said he didn’t think he had the time to give me to date and that wasn’t fair to me. However, for the two months previous, it had not been a problem. While we had made out, I feel that he was more sexually attracted to me and honestly I wondered if we’d end up being compatible in that area but I was willing to try if it got to that point.
But thank you for thinking that I deserved it. Hope you never have to feel as hurt and confused.
Your making those to easy, you just stated how you would have some fear in the bedroom. You stated earlier that his remarks early on were to much to handle. Your little details you keep adding are hints to let you understand that it wasn’t going to happen anyways. Who cares if this guy did in the end maybe try to just get the reciprocal reaction, the point is you made it clear that during the MAJORITY of that short time you were closed off. The next time a NORMAL person enters your life and feels safe and close enough in such a short amount of time do yourself the favor and go all in. Get some competence, who cares why this guy flaked off just be more open to the next
Well… whatever really happened.. he is communicating in an immature manner.. to try to friend zone and not tell you why and hide some of facebook. I would just assume an ex is in his life confusing him, or something like that.. and that you deserve a man who is fully out in the open and communicates well.
Thank you. As an adult, I treat people respectfully. If things needed to end, that’s best done in person. If that isn’t feasible or possible, then at least CALL. Talk to the person. Texting is the height of immaturity and combined with the timing of his letting me know, just goes to show that he’s an inconsiderate and disrespectful jerk.
Jana, pretty much the same thing happened to me. Guy came on very strong, got me to trust him and then he dumped me out of the blue. It’s so disappointing and hard to recover from but you’ll be okay. Hugs <3
Fantastic article. So many people are afraid to be single and get into relationships when they are not sure what they want in their life. They waste other peoples time by lying to them and to themselves that they want a relationship. Self deceit is the worst form of deceit.
Reading all of these comments made me realize that my ex’s “coming on too strong” was a huge red flag. I’ve heard this before but when it’s happening you just think the guy really REALLY likes you. I just thought he was crazy about me. In my case, I think he just enjoyed the ego boost and attention I was giving him as he was on the mend of a previous failed relationship. He wasn’t completely healed from that and I was too blind and in love to notice. Why does life keep teaching me lessons I have no desire to learn? (Lol)
Jana, let him be and do not even think about him. From now on do not give any man who you were honest with a never gave them a reason not to like you another chance. That guy looks like someone who either doesnt know what a healthy relationship looks like, has found someone else he THINKS is better than you, or just wanted an ego boost that he can have you. Do not ask and do not push but do not go back to him. The hardest thing in dating or relationships is self control. This blog is one of the best on the internet. If you want to know what might go through his mind buy the book Beyond the break up eritten by Andrew Aitken. Some of your questions mught be answered. Then to feel good about life even in this hard time watch the film Shift from Wayne Dyer. Sorry for my typing and English I am not a native speaker.
Thank you! Gave no reason. Just reciprocated what I thought he was feeling. Thankfully, I did not sleep with him, so I am glad for that. Just hurts to not know what happened.
What happened?
He is an asshole! He wrote you a break-up message the morning of a day that he knew would be a hard day for you.
Asshole, misogynist, take your pick!
Whatever he had to tell you he could have–and SHOULD have–told you in person!
If I could “like” all of these comments to Jana’s situation I would! I’ve noticed these guys don’t seem to care about the devastation they leave behind…being that he already knew you were going to have a bad day when he broke it off with you. What an ass! I remember being devastated when mine broke it off. I couldn’t even sleep that night and to him it was just another day. This may sound strange but it was almost business like when he did it…very cold and no emotion. Anyway, I hope you don’t contact him again. He sounds like a flake.
Thank you!
Yes- what’s bothered me most is the method and timing of how he did what he did. I thought he was one of the “too nice” of the nice guys.
Also maddening is his refusal to talk to me after that day. He had told me he’d call the next day and we’d talk. I texted that next day and asked when, and then 8 hours later when I’d heard no response that I guess we weren’t talking, and I was confused and would just really like to know what happened. That also got no response.
The same day, he changed his Facebook. I can see only his cover photo and profile photo. Why? Why not just delete me? But why did he close everything down? Nothing had happened to warrant that.
And he was the one that said he wanted to just be friends. I guess he assumed we were heading to sleeping together and he didn’t want to ruin our friendship.
What friendship? Lol. I don’t want one but it’s just funny.
Jana,
Yep…that mirrors what mine did. After he broke it off, I stupidly called him days later and he did message back but it was almost out of pity for me. He had the nerve to ask me to call him back again the next day…no, just no… Of course I didn’t call but if I had, he probably would’ve ignored my call…again. He was just giving me breadcrumbs while trying to brush me off “nicely”. I can’t tell you how bad that made me feel. I couldn’t understand why he wouldn’t talk to me (what’s wrong with ME mentality) Especially when he was the one chasing and calling me all the time (pre breakup of course)
I felt desperate and pitiful…Ive never been like that! It’s truly mind blowing when someone does these things…hiding their Facebook posts, not texting back or answering calls….they’re cowards and dodging the situation. They don’t want to face our emotions. The sad part is we have to respect that unless they eventually come around again. Usually by the time they do, it’s too late.
By the way, most of my break up story is on this site on different articles if you care to read it. Not that I enjoy reading other people’s stories of betrayal but it comforts me knowing I’m not the only one going through this. At times I look back at what I wrote and I can’t believe how pathetic it sounds. It goes to show you how one person can destroy your self esteem…if you let them.
Hello
I’ve been there as well. It has been more than a year now and it left me broken hearted.
Finally I’m feeling like I’m recovering step by step, but still not did let it go totally.
I was separated from a relationship of 16 years for only a few months when we met.
I was head over heels, like I’ve never been before. This was my Prince charming.
Handsome, intelligent, gentleman, vulnerable… All you can dream off as a woman.
We saw each other twice a week and I got all the signals he was interested.
We never slept together, but for me that was a sign he respected me. He told me we would not, untill we had a relationship. Then I told him that I began to have feelings for him and that was the moment that everything changed. We did not see each other any more, we texted, but not that much a before and he always kept me believing that we’ll had a date soon, saying at the moment he had too much work.
Finally I asked him what changed? He missed me, he was feeling at ease whilst being with me, he always had looked forward to see me, he missed our coversations, the wandering around in a city together and enjoying the little things we did together, but that he was not head over heels like with his ex. That he thought he needed this to step into a relation. When I asked him for further explanation, he told me that he was afraid to loose me and all we had, because he would mess it up.
Then it dawned me, he never got over his ex. He had been in a relationship with her for 6 months and they broke up, because he changed his mind in not having children with her. I got the signals all the the time, but I had been ignoring them, because we had such a good time when we were together. It was like we knew each other all our lives and not only for a few weeks. We ended each other sentences after date 2.
Believe me, normally I’m the rationale kind of woman.
Starting to feel better finally, but still there are moments that I doubt myself (not young enough, not beautiful enough, not interesting enough…).
I’m still afraid to be out there again. I’m afraid that I’ll never feel the same again for someone as I did for him and on the other side I’m afraid that I will.
One thing is for sure, I’ll never contact him again, he wanted to see me again, but in a relationship it’s not only on one persons’ terms.
I wish you all the strenght!
Another great article at such a good time.
I understand and agree with everything in it. One party’s over estimation of being able to have a committed relationship and the other’s unwillingness to let go (rationalising, minimising, denying and over compromising).
But. It still stings and sucks.
This time round I believed I was going in with my eyes wide open and having realistic expectations. At the end of it all, I was fooling no one but myself.
“One of the hardest experiences in life is walking away even though it hurts”
The down days are the worst. Nonetheless, thank you Natalie for writing articles like these.
Exactly! Hugs to you, going through the same.
Hugsssssss
I’ve just gone through this for the last month and a half and it ended a week ago.
Had a crush on someone for a year and a half, and after going through the longest dry spell of my life (2yrs), we started talking and having great conversations. She knew I was interested and sat me down and told me she didn’t want to give me the wrong impression, and hoped we could be friends. She doesn’t do casual dating with a few people. I said (politely) that I wasn’t interested in her as just friends, so that wasn’t going to work for me. We parted amicably.
The next night she tells me she has changed her mind, and wants to try. I requested an explanation for her change of heart which we did in person the following day. After talking for a few hrs, she invited me out to her friends place to play cards. We had a great time, only a few drinks, and she was very affectionate with me. It was wonderful. She agreed to spent the night after I assured her we weren’t going to have sex. We stayed up until 5 am, talking and kissing. It was a real treat.
The following few days she txted me all day. No instigation from me. When I saw her at work (We work in the same building) she was super strange and awkward, and left me mystified at what had happened. She txted me shortly after saying she was sorry she was awkward and had a lot on her mind.
I let her be, and 2 days after that she tells me she needed time to process what had happened on the weekend, and that she wasn’t ready for it.
Aside from the month of so of straight conversations, this all happens over the course of a week. Bummer for me as it was the first reciprocal connection I’ve had in 2 yrs, but at least it got sorted out quickly.
Now if I can just stop the “I’m going to be alone for the rest of my life” voice…
This is becoming my greatest stumbling block too. I honestly no longer believe that there are any non-broken men out there that are capable of having healthy relationships. It sounds awful, but I do not know of even one, single, heterosexual man that does not have severe issues with commitment or self-confidence or passive-aggression. Not one. I am not joking. Perhaps when they are still in their early 20’s they are still relatively unscathed, but I am far too old to date little boys–I would feel like a predator. It is hard to hold out for the perfect partner for you when you no longer believe that any such person exists. I wish I knew how to shake off this feeling, but I can’t find any evidence to the contrary no matter where I seem to look. The fact that there are people out there that marry multiple times–that actually found not just one, but MORE than one person to spend their life with–blows my mind. I can’t wrap my brain around it.
Maybe change the types of people you hang out with or where you hang out? Just a suggestion, as obviously I do not know the details of your situation in real life. I am single, but I have always had healthy men in my life and have been able to maintain healthy platonic friendships with men also. There are good men out there.
Oh, I’m sure there are! I just don’t think they are single. Or straight.
Don’t get me wrong…I do no subscribe to the notion that all men are pigs or are evil. I don’t blame these men for being unable to sustain healthy relationships with themselves or others. I know it is not deliberate, for the most part. But it does not change the fact that finding someone with a healthy, optimistic outlook that is self-actualized enough to see their shortcomings and work towards improving the quality of their relationships…well, that is a unicorn that I have never met.
I agree with you. Sometimes I feel the same way. How is it possible that I try to be open minded and kind and assertive but still end up with nothing but Mr Unavailables.
They tend to show their true selves after a year into the relationship when it settles into long term. Yet I see people who have been engaged or married several times.
I understand the theory that some people come into your life for a reason, a season and a life time. But it’s starting to feel ridiculous. At 36 I am owning my own mistakes and checking for red flags. I wish there was a site like this for men so they can really do the work and learn what it means when you choose to get involved with another individual.
I totally hear you. I know lots of people that have had multiple marriages, and haven’t even had an actual relationship going on 5 years..
Straight, no chaser. Excellent.
If anybody reads this… 🙁
I feel like my back is against a wall i’m trying so hard to get over. Here I was thinking the last post I read on here was the confirmation I needed to end things with someone i’ve been dating and can’t seem to get through to. But maybe I need to start to examine myself. All these men i’ve come across seem to tell me that I over-analyze things a lot? & that i’m always rushing into things and that I should relax and go with the flow. All i’ve been in these last 4 -5 years are unavailable relationships mind you with men that I could never been with regardless looking back now. My first was with a man who had another woman I came to find out of after I already caught feelings for him & had a hard time leaving till almost a year later. After that, all the other men I was dating either needed me to help them fix, heal and deal (florence nightingale) or just wanted to use me to pass time with but would keep trying to convince me that I needed to ‘relax’ and just go with the flow and to stop trying to rush into relationships 9-12 months later. Last guy I dated was so long distance I had to catch flights to see him and the same behaviors …never calling, only texting, meaningless conversations, lots of sex, non-existent relationship talks…just “lets go with the flow.” I told him about himself in a long email (which I shouldn’t have) and he never responded or ever called or text me again and like a dummy we switched roles and I was restlessly trying to hunt him down for weeks.
Now I finally come across someone I have SO MUCH in common with. Things started out great in the beginning. He made the effort to call/text everyday and took me out on 3 dates where conversation was almost NONEXISTENT. I mean, the sex was amazing – that part we definitely had chemistry in. Well then suddenly 3 weeks into dating he’s no longer calling me at night. He becomes reliant on text messages. Hardly ever responds to mine especially if they have anything to do with us. I would tell him how much I missed and liked him and he would respond with a “aww that’s so sweet.” Send him pictures of myself he never commented on. When we did FaceTime or have phone conversations he was always texting someone else in my ear or having to constantly put me on hold/mute to answer calls. He would never ask questions about me, about my past…just always about my day and work but idk… I figured i’s only been a month, maybe I do need to give it time. He would choose to come over late nights and initiate sex even if it was evident I didn’t want it and after he would roll over and go to bed. No conversation, no nothing then leave bright and early the next day and I won’t hear from him for another 2-3 days. I started to feel like a booty call. I remember calling to tell him a couple days ago mentioning I wanted us to do less of sex and more of dating again and he told me that sex was necessary because it game him something to look forward to and that the distance between us (30mins) and us being both single parents, his hectic schedule was the reason why we could no longer really see each other more than once a week but he likes me and I need to relax and just be patient and i’m a great mom, amazing sense of human (he’s still never once called me beautiful, or attractive).
After crying almost all night yesterday I finally decided to send him a long dissertation (via text). I chose to text because calling was something I did the first time and he managed to get me to change my mind and revert to starting over as he called it. (I have this bad habit of sending long text messages and emails but why call if i’m not trying to rectify?) Anyway, I text him basically telling him in short words that I was not happy and that I no longer wanted to continue dating him because it was starting to change how I felt about me. I let him know that the decision was not easy because I was invested but it had to be done for my sanity. He responds by saying he read the long essay and he’d like for us to talk tonight. He calls me (for the first time at night) and mentions that he doesn’t want to continue to hurt me and that he really just thinks that if we were closer things would be different and maybe we speak different love languages. I asked him if he was involved with anyone else he of course said he wasn’t. I asked about his last relationship and he talked about this woman as though they broke up last night. It was evident he is still healing and probably just using me to help him avoid the uncomfortable feelings of that loss. He could tell I was crying on the phone and he was so damn NONCHALANT I couldn’t believe this was the same person i’d laid down with. Gave NO regards to my feelings.
I don’t even know why he called. He just made things harder for me. He then goes on to tell me like they all did that I over-analyze things and that when I don’t get the answers i’m looking for i result to anxiety and filling in the blanks for myself. Mentioned that i’m looking for instant gratification and I needed to be patient with dating and getting to know people. I mean is it really me? Do I need to take a chill pill? Maybe i’m expecting too much from someone i’ve only been dating a little over a month? We got off the phone and he mentioned he would call me in the morning. As though NOTHING HAD FREAKING HAPPENED. Made no note to doing better, to showing up…never addressed how I felt…just said he would call me in the morning…not text…call. WHY THE HELL IS THIS MAN EVEN CALLING ME?? He said he respect my decision and wants me to do what’s best for me but expects us to carry on like nothings wrong? I don’t mind being friends but should I take time to heal first?
I think sometimes dating can take a toll on you and maybe i’m approaching this situation the wrong way out of fear from all the pain i’ve endured w/ all the other situations. I mean, to be honest, I don’t even know what I should be feeling or looking for from someone who’s actually emotionally available. So who am I to say that this situation is wrong? I’ve never been wanted…EVER. I’m used to being on this end…the over giver who never gets feelings and time reciprocated the same way. I’m always staying in situations where the love is unrequited. Seriously…am I deserving of love? Whatever that is?! Why do I feel so bad? Why am I so damn emotional and constantly crying and losing sleep and meals over men I was never in a relationship with? Am I taking dating too seriously? Is it the sex? Urg.
Hi Cycles,
I can understand your distress very well. I hope some of my questions and suggestions might help you.
1) Why is he talking about you having to be more patient in getting to know him and blaming you for wanting instant gratification while at the same time he sees no scrupules in having sex with you? It doesn’t make sense to me. It seems like he is dismissing your feelings so that he can continue to have his way. No matter how long you know someone, whether it’s one minute or 50 years, you are ALWAYS worthy of being treated with respect and consideration. Love can grow but if the foundation of trust and respect isn’t there, then it’s a waste of your precious time.
2) You said you felt he isn’t over his last relationship. Trust your feelings.
3) What are the benefits of remaining friends with this man who doesn’t respect your boundaries and has proven that he’s not capable of taking your feelings into account?
Cycles,
Sorry you’re going through such a tough time at the moment. I think it’s safe to say that we’ve ALL been there at some point in our lives and we’re all are at varying stages of recovery and/or reclaiming our self worth/love.
You said something which really resonated with me and made me feel sad inside because it was exactly how I felt about myself when I joined the BR community over a year ago:
“I’ve never been wanted…EVER. I’m used to being on this end…the over giver who never gets feelings and time reciprocated the same way. I’m always staying in situations where the love is unrequited.”
I think this statement sums up your problem in a nutshell. More importantly, it sums up how you feel about yourself: unwanted, unlovable, people pleaser/ over giver and clearly tired of the same dating disappointments.
As for these assclowns who you continually find yourself entwined with – it’s time to take a break and step back from the dating pool until you’ve done some serious work on YOU. It’s not just a simple matter of meeting the wrong guys all the time (I believed this excuse for years because I wasn’t ready to accept some ugly truths about myself), but there’s a clear pattern of behaviour here and until you break this cycle – you’re going to end up dating the same EUMs and assclowns for another 4-5 years. Is that what you want?
I get it, we all get it. It sucks! But now that you’ve acknowledged the issue, you can start taking steps to fix this starting today. I cannot stress enough how useful this site is! There are courses, e-books, blogs and this forum of amazingly kind and caring people – who can really help you get out of this rut that you’re in, and teach you to start loving yourself again.
Take a chance and give it a try. What have you got to lose?
Take care
x
I’ve been in a weird cycle where he acts super interested, then when I am fully in, he does the I don’t want this level of relationship thing. So I end it an say ok, bye. Which makes him super interested and come at me with gifts and trips and home repair. Then I become in again, and then he is suddenly not so into it again. Over and over again. So I’m doing the right thing by leaving when he is not in, but keep getting pulled back in by the future faking, that seems so real. He acts so intense about his feelings for me and how much he wants a future with me. But has twice told me he can’t commit to me due to my being larger than his ideal girl. (I’m average size) He is a very skinny guy. But the second time he said it was after we had been together for a year and had already gotten me to come back to him with his professing his intense emotions for me and desire to marry me. Of course I broke up with him and now he is begging me to come back. I am emotionally done, but he managed to guilt me into sticking around for an event in two months. I know I should not do it, and it is possible I’ll get sucked back in. How do I not let obligation and guilt lead me around? How do I say no after I already said I’d do it? How do I not let his displays of affection, gifts and services sway my common sense?
You have the right to say you’ve changed your mind, especially since he has already done that a hundred times to you. This man is not worth feeling guilty about. Just tell him that you are done and that you don’t want to go to the event with him. Even if he protests, he will know why you are done with him. You don’t need to explain yourself or even give him space to try and tempt you back into this unhealthy cycle. Block all ways he can contact you. You deserve to be happy. Hope this helps!
thanks! your right, I don’t owe him. The pleaser in me is just so attuned to trying to make others happy that it is difficult to truly believe it’s not my job to make him happy. He is also very good at tugging the guilt strings. How important the event is, how horrible it would be without me. and the little bit of hope that maybe this time he really does mean it.
But he actually admitted over exaggerating his feelings for me in the past to win me back, but expects me to believe him this time when he says he really has changed. When writing it down it seems so obvious that he isn’t to be trusted. Yet it’s so tempting to fall into the bait of “I really love you and want to be with you”.
A few years ago, I realized that nearly every single thing that I did out of obligation backfired in some way. If I agreed to a coffee while knowing that that day was really busy but feeling like I just have to – everything would fall apart and I’d end up either getting there super distracted or I’d have to cancel anyway but now with even more guilt.
If someone I like wants me to do something that isn’t convenient, and its a big thing, I put the person ahead of my feelings about the thing and try to do it anyway. If someone that has been crap to me for a while wants me to do something that I know is going to cause me mental health issues (anxiety, stress, guilt, fear) — I don’t do it!!! Even if I agreed to do it!!
Look, have perspective. You did not agree to donate a kidney (and even that you’re allowed to change your mind on). Text him any of the following and then repeat it over and over and over until he stops pursuing you:
1) I changed my mind, I don’t want to go. / I cant go.
2) We broke up, I don’t want to go.
3) I am not comfortable going
4) My dog will be sick that day I know it I know it I know it
5) We broke up, its not appropriate for me to go to this thing with you. HIm: But we’re friends! You: No, in fact, we are not friends…
and its that last bit which is really hard to do. The real truth is – this man is not your bf, and he’s not your friend, he’s not your well-wisher. He’s a tepid wishy washy fellow at the least, and probably an AC. He’s using you. You have no idea whether HE might not eventually dis-invite YOU!!
See the thing is — a part of us keeps wanting to hold on. A part of you isn’t done with the hot and cold. A part of you might think he will come back. Its when YOU decide what level of relationship is acceptable to you, that staying NC, declining invitations, backing out of invitations, all of this will be easy. You need to make that decision.
Suki, wow I needed that. You are so right about being over nice back firing, I had forgot.
The event is his best friends wedding in Maui, plus it’s his birthday. I can cancel the tickets easy enough, but must admit to a bit of greed in me that wants to go just because it’s Maui, all expense paid, 10 days at a nice resort. But would I be able to just keep it as a ‘no strings attached’ after being in that environment? Not the sex, because of course that would happen, but the emotional part. Right now I feel emotionally distant because I kept N/C for 6 weeks before this. but the more time together, the more danger I’m in. Greed combined with guilt and a bit of hope is a bad combination.
Wow Maui! thats a tough one then!! ha …no its not! see the thing is we are always full of guilt. If you go, you’ll feel guilty. If you sleep with him — guilt. If you don’t — guilt. If you don’t go — guilt etc. This itself tells you he’s not a good influence on your life — since there is no option which will make you truly happy in a clean way.
The thing is if you are getting a free vacation with someone you don’t ordinarily mind having sex with – whats the big deal? BUT the big deal is that casual sex has a high price. And you are not in casual with this guy. So having casual sex with someone that has used you and who you might be using in turn — that is messing with you. If you could do this without feeling guilt, you should – but I think is not that easy.
I would recommend not going. I would *actually* recommend spending your own money and going by yourself. Thats also a super spendy thing he’s doing for you – the potential for power imbalance is high. Gifts between people that have bad blood tend to create other bad things – control, resentment, etc. Sorry – its a tough decision for sure!! If you go, work hard on your mental state beforehand so that you do actually enjoy it.
I know he spends the money to get me to feel I owe him, the power imbalance thing. The funny thing is that I don’t even really want to go someplace hot and humid. Just associating beach with relaxation. thanks for understanding the temptation and validating that it is hard to say no to that. I’m already stressed about being in a bathing suit with someone who provokes my body issues with insecurity. but it is tempting to use him back. but that is a slippery slope to darkness. thanks so much for your help!
I went through this for 5 years. These guys do NOT change. They like to chase. As long as you’re running, they’ll say everything in the world. The second you stop, they back off. They don’t know how to deal with emotional intimacy and let me say this again this DOES NOT CHANGE. The guy I went through this with for 5 years? It’s now 5 years later – so ten years since I’ve met him and he’s STILL single and still says/does all the same stupid things he did when I was dating him (the difference being we are no longer dating and will never date – at most we are email buddies). Unless you want to waste years of your life, you need to learn to say no and put yourself first, not him. You don’t owe him a damn thing, and if he wants you to go to some stupid event with him tell him he can marry you. 🙂 (seriously don’t marry him, guy has issues)
oh he is telling me all the time he will marry me right now. But I’m not even kind of interested in that from him, it would just stop my ability to run away. He would have caught me and then be stuck, so then he would cheat and lie and turn cold. no thanks. I agree he will never change, he is 50, never married, no kids. Talks about how much he loves kids and wants them, then tells you he doesn’t have any cuz he talked his g/f’s into abortions. As soon as he has something, he no longer wants it. He has never been faithful in a relationship (he says except for me, ya right). He lies about everything and does not take responsibility for anything. total a/c. Yet the begging and pleading seem so sincere, even when I know better. Add the gifts and trips and fixing my house and it seems like he is putting actions behind his words, but it’s just cover for his a/c ways. like he can buy my pretending to not notice, which does blind me sometimes. He is going to meetings for relatives of alcoholics and saying he is growing as a person. that blinds me too, it seems reasonable that a person could change. Yet, when pressed, he doesn’t actually work the steps. thanks for showing me how they really don’t change. and for validating a similar experience
:O I can’t believe he told you he can’t commit to you because of your size. Twice. As though that’s a valid or honorable reason. But he still expects to get the goods. The nerve of this guy! Honey, you’re attractive and desirable ALL THE TIME, not just when he says/thinks so. By reason of him playing on your insecurities and using money to manipulate you, I say FLUSH HIM! I would be tempted to mooch the Maui trip (justice lol), but I wouldn’t take the chance with my sanity/self-esteem, its so easy to get sucked back in with these guys…
I’m in the same situation as everyone else…man started hot, swept me away, calling me every day, asking to see me every day, very passionate sex then three weeks later telling me he did not realize until after we started dating that he/his life is not ready for a serious relationship. I tried to keep things casual as it’s been so long since I felt anything for a man and then told him I could not do it anymore, let’s just be “friends.” But, as you would expect, I’ve fallen back into it as he came forward after me stepping back. It’s painful because I had such high hopes. We live close by each other in the same town and to get to most places I have to drive by it. He went away on a trip and has basically been completely out of touch. I don’t want to go back to my non-existent sex life as things with us as this is the best sex I’ve ever had (he agrees). When we sleep together he holds me the entire night, holds my hand all night. Despite seeing him, I’m still actively dating and trying to find a man who actually can give me what I want. I’ve communicated to this man that I do want a serious relationship and have not given up on finding that so he has to know I’m dating. I’m guessing when I’m finally done that is when he will wake up. Maybe he never will. I have told him I have feelings for him, life is too short to withhold something like that. As someone who has been divorced for nearly 12 years and has not had a serious, committed relationship in nearly 6 years I’m seriously wondering whether “it’s” going to ever happen for me again.
oh wow, that is my exact story for the first 6 months of my relationship (stated above). Then I finally left for real, he stepped up harder. Then it faded until he got caught lying, or texting other girls or breaking promises, or just plain saying he no longer wanted to propose because I was not petite enough. So I would leave and he would step it up and chase me super hard, lather, rinse, repeat. I wonder what yours would do if you ended it for real? In a way you would be lucky if he just let it go. I’m 47 and totally get the what if I never find someone else thing. But honestly being alone is peaceful and there are still people dating at all ages. I guess I’m not really being helpful, it just struck me how similar our stories were.
Monica,
I don’t think being alone is peaceful — I just get to the point where I can’t take being disappointed (by either disappointing someone that I’m not into or getting dumped) anymore and just go into a hole for a year or so before dating. I’ve done the whole “self improvement” thing, focusing on myself, all of that — the fact of the matter is my kids are in college and I really want to have someone in my life. The sting of empty nest makes the lack of a partner hurt more. It’s the longing for familial comfort of a parent, a child, or a partner I’m feeling — and I have none of them. I work two jobs, I volunteer, I go to church, the gym, spend time with friends but at the end of the day, I’m alone, alone kind of in life.
The guy I talked about did come back home but never contacted me. I can’t believe that he left my house a week earlier after sleeping over and telling me he would talk to me “later” and then never replying to the photo of my friends’ wedding, never saying hello when he got back. It’s really shitty considering we’ve been together two months. I’m so hurt and just generally disappointed in the potential for ever meeting someone that it can work with I feel physically ill, so depressed.
I’ve been wanting to find the right person for so long — I’ve actively tried, other times I’ve just been completely celibate and just closed off — I don’t know how many more times I can be disappointed. I look at some of my friends who are beautiful, educated, emotionally healthy women my age and older who just can’t find a guy, despite wanting one. I never in a million years thought I’d still be single — and without a serious relationship — for this long when I got divorced. No regrets about that…I’m just so depressed. What is wrong with men?
Haley,
Just date and don’t sleep with these men! Its okay to want a relationship, but you need to learn how to have fun and get to know these men to see if you even WANT a relationship with them. For gods sake DO NOT SLEEP WITH THEM! Believe me it is much easier to walk away when you haven’t slept with them yet. Some men will pretend like they want a commitment without actually having to commit. If you see they don’t want to same things you want–Walk Away! This is a sign that you are incompatible.
Stephanie,
The thing is I rarely meet men I’m remotely interested in. This guy is the first one in years. I think part of the problem is that most of the men I’ve met I’ve met online (I knew this guy from real life but connected via Match). I think there are a lot of messed up men online. In real life you can read body language, know a little about the person before a date is ever considered. I also think it’s part of our American culture now to just “hook up” — I don’t think a lot of people actually want to have relationships. My son, who is 21 has had a serious girlfriend for over three years and my 19 year old daughter, who wants a guy to actually court her/date her/be a real boyfriend to her tell me stories you wouldn’t believe. What happened to love?
Believe me when I tell you if you are dating a person and he says:
– Things are moving to fast
– Lets go with the flow
– I’m not sure what I want
RUNNNNNNNN! Even if you’ve slept with them because if you don’t you will be going on a rollercoaster ride that you will not want to be on. Trust me when I tell you the minute somebody is unsure of what type of relationship they want with you, that is a clear sign that you are incompatible. I don’t care how much fun you have or how much you think you have in common, they are not the ones for you.
Those are indeed words to live by, girl! I faltered and tried to convince the bejesus out of the other party to be sure of the relationship. Didn’t work and I just ended up feeling like I was on an endless rollercoaster (which I knew I could get off but didn’t want to give up the fun and thrill of it). Finally forced myself off that rollercoaster.
On another note, heyyyy same name!
‘You can’t fit a sure peg in a round hole’.
Do you know how many times I heard this from my (now separated) husband? It took me 1.5 years of individual therapy to finally LISTEN and BELIEVE his words. I still struggle especially when he tells me he still loves me but now I can see the forest from the trees. Those are easy words to say. Love is an action and his actions absolutely backed his words of ‘you can’t fit a square peg Ina round hole’.
Been reading all these comments and I see one common theme: the importance of NC and sticking to it. Make a clean break the first time: from then on, the person is dead to you. No texts, no Faceplant, gone. Yep, it’s hard to walk away, especially to the tune of “I’ll never find someone else as attractive/affectionate/intelligent etc”. Sad fact is, you haven’t found it in this person either. Being on an emotional rollercoaster is just as bad as being on a real one, nausea and all.
You are so right Noquay . It is difficult to accept but you must. I have realized that analyzing and wishing, changes nothing. The other party moves on and those of us wishing are just losing valuable time.
Invest in yourself and forget that they are an entity that ever entered your life so you can have the life you truly want and deserve. Working everyday on this myself.
It’s a month after I got the “I can’t be what you want” as part of a break-up speech and I’m still having such a hard time/it’s constantly on my mind, so this was helpful. I’m proud of myself for not arguing with him in the moment, or pleading, or begging, or asking “why”?, but just letting it be. Still really hung up on whether or not I could have done something differently (were my expectations too crazy? if I had been more reasonable/less needy/calmed down, would things have been fine?) and hoping that if I keep reminding myself “if he really did like/love you enough to want to be with you, he would have talked to you about things instead of just walking” but it hasn’t really sunk in yet on the emotional level.
Elizabeth,
You will be fine! You handled it with grace and it is his loss! Do not beat yourself up and try to figure out if you did something wrong because it really doesn’t matter because he decided that he didn’t want the relationship any further for whatever reason. That doesn’t mean anything is wrong with YOU! Everybody you date is not suppose to be the person you are suppose to be with! People come into our lives for many reasons and sometimes we will never get all the answers. Take care!
This is a great post and comments too!! I wish I had read this before I replied to a text from a guy I have gone out with a few times. We are both 38 and recently out of relationships. He and his wife divorced a year and a half ago and since he has had ‘3 month’ relationships. We went out on a date the day before Valentine’s and I went to his house two nights (nothing has happened other than kissing). Anyway, I wanted to know what the deal is because I do not get the impression he is interested. Well, he sent a text yesterday saying how he is dating around and has a date on Friday with someone and wants to be honest with me.
Here’s the exact text.
Hey Jennifer I think in a round about way you were asking a question last night about us… Just wanted to say I have enjoyed our dates and that I hope we can have more. Also I’m in no hurry to rush into anything I think that’s what has happened to me in my last relationships. So far you are the only person I have dated since my last ex LOL… I am suppose to go out with someone this Friday night. I just want to be open and honest with you as I hope you are with me. My approach at this point with anyone is to take things slow and just see where it goes.. I am really dedicated to this show coming up and I know it will consume more and more of my time. So I hope we can still go out but if this isn’t what you’re looking for I understand.
*****************************************************
I really didn’t know what to say at first. If I had any prospects I would be dating around too. 🙁 I replied and said I understand if he isn’t interested and I enjoyed our time too. I really just wanted to know where I stood with him so I wouldn’t get caught up into him and then find out he is dating other people….
He said is interested but doesn’t want to commit to anyone (red flag???)
I decided after that I would leave him alone, not text him first or initiate contact. Then I came here and saw this post and was like crap wish I’d seen this 10 minutes ago. 🙁
As the night went on my mind wouldn’t let go. I felt like he is trying to keep me on the string in case these others don’t pan out or if he is alone and wants company, then I’ll hear from him. Or he’ll date me and sleep with them. Obviously insecurity rearing it’s ugly head because I feel like he *wants* to date these other younger, prettier, sexier, hornier girls and then there’s me when they aren’t around.
I don’t want to be a fallback or second choice. I’m worth more than that and she should be glad to be with me!! I wish I’d taken more time to reply then I would have seen this blog post and the comments.
What’s really funny to me is our *dates* were all last minute but yet he has a date already set up for Friday. And even though he still wants to date me, he didn’t try to set up anything with me for this weekend. I feel like I have set a precedent that I’m available whenever.
It hasn’t even been two weeks yet. I’m so over thinking this!
His text is a brush off. I think if you’re dating you have to have the thick skin that says …next! You’re not in deep with him. He doesn’t owe you an explanation about why he might be pulling back. I would step back and I would immediately start repainting my house or doing major spring clean or training for a marathon. You need to not obsess over this. This guy is not your soulmate – he is your experiment in being cool jennylynn that gets over things quick and moves on. So get busy so that you don’t over think. You’re already sad and needing advice. There’s nothing you can do. He is saying you’re not compatible and he wants to see other people. If you’re not ok with this, then do not accept dates from him.
It’s possible he doesn’t want anyone. And it’s possible he doesn’t want to date you. And neither of those should change that it’s time for you to Nc and to distract yourself.
JennyLyn
It’s not up to you to mould yourself into being someone who is okay with guys dating multiple people at once, it works fine for some people but it obviously doesn’t work for you. You and this guys do not share dating values and that is okay. I know people who were dating two or three people when they met their eventual spouse and it was really okay for them, they dropped the others pretty fast , but this way of dating is not for everyone. You can be yourself and wait for someone who thinks about dating in the same way as you do and not bend yourself to fit what you think will get you away from being single faster. Society has a lot to say about how you should meet,date, and even break up , especially as you get older but if you act out of alignment with your true desires you won’t feel happy even if you played it cool and “did everything right”. Internalize the values you think speak to the healthiest version of you best and sod the rest.
JennyLyn,
Leave him alone! Walk away and do not engage. He has shown you that he is not that interested! Do not try to convince, don’t look for any explanations, just walk away. If you continue to engage with him I can guarantee you will end up getting hurt. Don’t call him. If he calls, tell him you are busy and move on. If a person tells you they want to date other people then they aren’t really into you, sorry!
Thanks ladies for taking the time to reply! You just confirmed what I already felt and thought!! I just did needed the swift kick in the pants.
Another great, very relevant article for me.
Thanks Nat!
Bx
Hearing that is so crushing. And yet, haven’t we all been on the other side of it? I know I have. I know I have had to let someone down. I try to remember that when I’M being crushed. I have had to hurt people who wanted a R and I didn’t. I’ve experienced the gamut of reactions. I keep that in mind, too, especially when I want to try and convince myself it “can’t be true,” we had “such a connection.” How would I want the guy to react? Not respecting my decision or thoughts is the worst.
It SUCKS, either way.
I tell myself to think of how athletes have to deal with life. There’s times when you’re going to win or pitch a perfect game or hit a homer; there’s other times when you WILL have blown a big game or lost everything and you WILL feel like the lowest of the low.
It’s huge ups and downs, but somehow you have to have the mental stability to be able to handle it, or you’re never going to freakin’ survive.
That’s dating.
Roz, thank you! You are so right, you win some you lose some. I beat myself up for months over reacting badly to a breakup but at the end of the day I have to deal with what happened and respect his decision to move on. Although I don’t agree with how he handled things in the end it’s done. I’ve been on the other end of a break up myself and it’s hard telling someone it’s over. If I could give advice to anyone about to break up with someone, handle it with respect and care for the other person. Apologize if needed, it makes things a lot easier. Dating is definitely hard and some things just aren’t meant to be. Life goes on..
I have read your blog for a couple of months now and I think it’s time that I post something. I’ve been with my boyfriend for 9 years, I’m 25 and he’s a year older. We’ve hade such a roller coaster relationship. We love each other. I know for a certain that he really loves me but he has serious commitment issues. For approx 2 years ago, he told me he needed a break from us. But not your regular break, we have been hanging out and being “relationshipy” all this time anyway. But he does not want to put a “label” on us. I think he’s really afraid of being “tied”, not be able to do what he wants if he feels like it. And we have arguments about it all the time. I feel like I need the security of him calling me his girlfriend. I’m acting like one, and I think that he acts like a boyfriend. He’s kind of secretive and have always been, and he has had controlling issues before. I know that you will find this a warning flag. But you know when you really love someone.. It’s hard and I have no idea where I’m going with this. I just feel like he needs to understand that I want more. And I’m afraid he can’t give me that. He tells me that we have everything that is in a relationship, we love each other, want to hang out, talk about everything. But somehow I feel like he doesn’t understand my point of view. I want to feel that it is us together, have a label so that people.. girls.. understand that what we have is serious. Well this is starting to get long. I’m afraid of letting go, he has been my best friend and boyfriend for so long. We’ve had our problems, many, trust issues and everything. Well it’s been dramatic. But there’s love. And I don’t know what to do. I kind of want to let go. Tell him what I want and need (which I’ve done many times) and really just show him that I’m not going to wait another 9 years and hopefully he wants to commit? I’m finishing my bachelors degree this semester and thinking about going someplace on my own, maybe volunteering in the fall and just let go. I just think I might need some advice or something from this community.
What if someone says “I agree we’re not on the same page, but I’d like to get to where you are” in response to you voicing concerns that you are more invested/more interested than they are? Is this in the same category as above (I don’t want/feel what you want/feel) or is it different because they’ve said they’d like to keep going in the relationship thinking their feelings will grow? He ended up dumping me a few weeks later so maybe that’s my answer… but I’m wondering if I should have seen that as more of a red flag and asked more questions at the time.
Hi Elizabeth… oh yes, I had this situation too. I was feeling deeply for him and in response, he made vague references to “getting better” (moving on from his woes/poor me crap) and returning to being the fun guy he was in the beginning (which was only two months prior, mind you. It only took 2 months for his fun/happy guy thing to fade away). As Natalie would term it, it’s Future Faking – eventually, you notice there is no movement, no progress, no change. That’s when they get scared because you’re no longer buying into the scam. It’s not that they are consciously tricking you; they’re just not thinking long term and they *want* to be able to deliver… they’re just not willing to do the work necessary to make that so. They’re lazy and immature. It’s nothing to do with your worth or value. They’re just doing the minimum to keep getting sex/therapy – but eventually, it’s not enough anymore and that’s when it ends.
It’s one thing to say, “I wish I was like that” and another entirely to DO something about it and become the person he wants to be. You can’t wait around based on words. They usually break it off/put the brakes on when they start to realize we expect them to deliver on their promises. It sounds like he might have started feeling like that and bolted. Hang in there… xoxo
Thank you Natalie for this incredible post, it gives me great strength and helps me feel secure in my decision to walk away from the person that I am in love with after he told me he did not want a relationship.
I am hurting though. It seems that it is not the case that this person did not want a relationship, its that he didn’t want a relationship with ME. Hearing that he now has a girlfriend, just 2 months after I walked away from him hurts like hell!
I spent the best part of 12 months holding onto the promise that eventually we’d become official. I fell for the ‘I love you, but I’m just not ready for a relationship’ and the ‘I’ve never felt like this about anyone before, you are so beautiful and amazing, but I’m not ready to be your boyfriend.’ We did everything a boyfriend and girlfriend does, but every time I asked for that commitment of calling it a relationship he would say no.
Each time I would tell him I wasn’t happy with that arrangement and would leave him with a heavy heart. But of course I got pulled back in with the sweet musings and the lines that he just couldn’t live without me.
I’m a little ashamed to say that I let this happen on 3 separate occasions in the space of 12 months, until just before Christmas when he told me again he couldn’t give me the relationship I wanted, that I chose to walk away for good. After he realised that this time I wasn’t going to be lured back with false words and promises, he really stepped his game up. Told me that he was ‘so close to asking me to be his girlfriend’, but this time I’d had enough.
Somehow, from somewhere, I mustered up the strength to completely cut him off. I blocked him on all forms of social media so he couldn’t see what was going on in my life. He tried, once or twice, to test the water – a couple of light hearted text messages asking how I’d been. He expressed that he was deeply heartbroken that I’d ended things and it was ‘ironic’ that at the point he’d become ready for a relationship, I was no longer interested in one. Of course I was still interested in a relationship, but being told no so many times and having your heart broken over and over again meant I’d had enough of trying.
The last I heard from him was exactly one month ago – a brief text exchange where he told me he was missing being physical with me. I responded in a curt manner, telling him that this sort of message was totally inappropriate and he’d be best not to message that sort of thing again.
Fast forward one month later and the man who refused to give me the relationship I wanted now has a girlfriend. I only know this because (hearing through mutual friends) he has made it public on social media. He never once gave any indication that I was part of his life and yet here he is publicly declaring he is in a relationship.
I have of course asked these friends to kindly not inform me of anything that is going on with him, but I cannot help feel crushed. Why is he giving someone else everything I wanted? How can he not be ready for a relationship with me, but jumping into something with someone else – and telling the world about how happy he is about it?!?
I can’t help but take it personally.
Hi Trudy… I can relate and I totally get why this feels personal and like some failure on your part. I think these guys know they cannot offer us the emotional availability that comes with a true relationship – in my case, he claimed I “expected too much” because I wanted to make plans in advance, didn’t want to sleep together after three dates and was tired of being his armchair therapist… lol Yeah, my expectations are SO high – like, I’m more than an unpaid doormat?
ANYWAY… 🙂 He went back to his ex and for awhile, it stuck in my heart so painfully. After all that, he went back to this person whom he claimed caused him so much pain (during our “therapy” sessions)? I thoughts HUH? WHAT IS YOUR DEAL, IDIOT?
Here’s the thing – and Nat writes about this too – she’s messed up too. She’s a wreck. So her expectations of him are LOW. So he doesn’t have to do a lot. They are actually well-matched for each other and, by being together, they prevent causing pain to others so it’s a public service, if you ask me.
I know it hurts right now and I get that it feels like it has to do with you. With time, you will see clearer and you’ll be glad to be rid of these low-functioning people. It’s a gift, even if it doesn’t feel like it yet. Hang in there. xoxo
Hi Trudy,
I am sorry for your suffering. Please know that there have been many people “in a relationship” that in reality experienced the same outcome, yet were misled to believe that mutual, positive, caring feelings existed.
THEY ARE SHAPESHIFTERS.
I remember reading this excerpt from Sam Vaknin, self-proclaimed narcissist:
“But you hate kiwi!” – protests my girl – “How can anyone detest kiwi and then eat it so eagerly?”. She is baffled. She is hurt. To some extent, she is even frightened to find herself with this kiwi-guzzling stranger. How can I tell her that, in the absence of a self, there are no likes or dislikes, preferences, characteristics? It is not possible to know the narcissist. There is no one there.” http://samvak.tripod.com/narcissistdiscontinuous.html
Shapeshifters.
Say Something, that’s chilling to read about shapeshifting. Makes me think of a weird incident of seeing this completely different person in front of me a few hours into an evening together, an obnoxious smile that I hadn’t yet seen, an offensive sense of humour, and like he didn’t know me, telling me things again that we’d talked about at length. When I jolted an end to the uncomfortable conversation, there returned the person I ‘knew’ again, interested and engaged. It didn’t go anywhere with him and ended some time ago, but still he got under my skin and I keep checking in here, kind of shaken up.
Trudy, so sorry for what you’ve gone through. Michelle is absolutely right. I know how difficult it is to be convinced and am in the same place as you when it comes to feeling rejected while knowing in reality that walking away was courageous and the right things to do. You have won in this scenario, I’m sure you know that, and you will definitely know it in the future.
Hi happy b,
That kiwi story stuck with me- out of the hundreds (thousands?) of readings I’ve searched. Total shapeshifting. It’s nonsensical. After semi-binge watching three season of Breaking Bad together, in a final correspondence he wrote that he doesn’t watch tv. When we were getting to know each other, somehow we got on the subject of that series and he told me he’d been compared in likeness to Walter White. It wasn’t until months after the breakup that I recalled those words (still have them from an email). I didn’t realize the significance of that comparison until long after. Someone I know commented that one of her friends asks a pre-date question in which she asks men either what they think of or how they relate to the Walter White character, to determine if she should proceed. I did NOT share my story with her, so this information was independently presented.
After he took me every weekend to the town bar to eat, he wrote in his final words that he doesn’t eat in restaurants and he doesn’t even drink. This was the man who, before meeting me in person declared he “can’t wait to buy me a beer”. The same guy who spent time with me, stating he’d “never been able to relax like this with anybody” told me he doesn’t even sit down. I still feel like I suffer from residual trauma. I haven’t turned a tv on for over a year. Maybe since 2014. It’s a trigger to this shapeshifting, Jekyll and Hyde experience. I don’t know how to explain the impact anymore, except to say that a neutral activity for my entire life (watching tv) now is something I don’t do. Ever. If I’m somewhere else and a tv is on, that’s different, but I will not turn one on in my own house. Of course I also realize how abnormal this is but I still avoid it.
Sounds very familiar, just the same with the drinking. It makes complete sense as well how the shapeshifting relates to mirroring. I felt like this awful character I glimpsed was perhaps like this all the time to someone who reflected the nastiness back to him, or it was just his true self. If my interpretations are right, he’s caused some serious harm to past women. I worry that it’s a convenient story I tell myself because he didn’t give me what I wanted, but it’s textbook in many ways. He even said it himself. I still feel like he’ll commit to some ‘better’ woman anytime soon, but I do now see the impossibility of being with him and holding onto self-respect and sanity and any amount of power.
Yet I go into the dating world and no one interests me. It takes time. Say Something, it looks like you’re in the process of reclaiming you. I like the saying that when you walk away from a relationship, you take half of it with you. But in the case of a narcissist, I think nearly all of it, because he was this kind of blank canvas, mirroring you. So those great memories, the humour, the warmth, so much of it is down to you.
Interesting about Walter White. He never seeks women’s attention but I see how he becomes a stranger to people, including us.
Hi Say Something,
It all boils down to lies and future faking. It had to be so shocking to hear him say he never liked things his fake butt claimed to enjoy when he was with you. A liar never likes being called out on their stuff. Sometimes it is just so hard to accept because of the initial impression we had of them. I read this article and looked at the videos this gentleman produces. He truly understands how deceptive they can be.
I really wish you could watch television and enjoy shows you use to love. The US presidential election has me laughing hysterically almost everyday. I can be in the gym watching with headphones on and I am just laughing at their conduct. I will take a laugh anyway I can get joy into my life. I need a television for background noise.
We have to be so careful about who we allow in our lives. It makes me sad to read the impact he has had on you. I understand it. Someone told me not to go on my birthday trip alone. Saying it is not a safe thing for a woman to do. Generally I would just go anyway. I was ask out on a date but had to decline. He works for someone I do business with. BR has taught me not to open that door. (smile). Hugs.
MJ
Hi MJ,
Of course you’re smart enough to be safe and you’re well traveled. That remark is ridiculous! It evokes so many emotions and thoughts in me… It represents society in general and the beliefs that women are not smart, should not be alone, need a man to make things right, and should just go without. Puke. A few weeks ago I was out of town with my son for a sporting event at a school. Most of the school was locked down because it was the weekend, and there was only one (boys/mens) locker room bathroom accessible. After traveling almost an hour from the hotel I was scoping out a bathroom. I was asked by another mom “do you have a man to go with you?” She knew I was alone (as always!) She then insisted I needed a man to accompany me. I was annoyed (by her) and walked away. I think I waited two more hours for a bathroom!
Ahh, yes future faking and shape shifting… Still haunts me. Still. And being told he is like Walter White: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/07/28/arts/television/how-walter-white-found-his-inner-sociopath.html?referer=
Who gets compared with Walter White? Nobody else I’ve ever known. And I didn’t even know what that meant or really pay any attention to that comment until AFTER. It just resurfaced in my mind. The same man who insisted, “I don’t have a mean bone in my body.” What’s worse- that or Trump?
Happy birthday trip!
Say Something,
Walter White is just plain creepy. So, he compared himself to Walter Scott?
So, I have allowed what some a hole said about me globe trotting alone scare me (along with terrorists). I wasn’t as uptight like this before. EVER.
Maybe I should entertain stretching out on someone’s coach. Massages twice a week help,but it’s jot like IAM talking. journaling does help.
Hamilton, drinks at Cipriani , shopping and good conversation may be just the panacea.
MJ
Hi MJ,
Sometimes I don’t even know what to think. MY big internal question (PMS enhanced) is SOOO, after I reach my goal weight, get rid of everything I don’t need, and once I pay down all debt, (that may take longer but I’m hopeful) THEN WHAT? If my focus is on improving myself doesn’t there come a point where I can breathe and say “I’m here. I made it. Mission accomplished. I’m the *best* me.” ?? Yes, I get the cliche that life is a journey not a destination, but I’m not enjoying my journey so much. It feels trivial and blah.
I was listening to a married couple I know talk about their weekend plans. He surprised her with a couples weekend spa getaway package. He described what he planned, and it is so sweet and thoughtful. But I also thought (to myself only of course) wow, nobody has ever planned a getaway weekend for me. Ever. But people do things like that all the time, right? I just don’t know what it’s like. I have never gone on a couples getaway weekend. Not before I was married, not when I was married, and not in my single-again life. And then a coworker today was describing her lunch, and how her husband cooked her dinner. I think that may have happened a handful of times in my marriage, but it’s probably been well over a decade since I’ve come home to a dinner. Or any romantic gesture that would indicate appreciation. Or acknowledge that I exist. So I’m just feeling sorry for myself because sometimes, like this week, it gets to me and I wonder why I’ve never mattered like that. I recently received some public/ media recognition for a work project I lead and I don’t even care. Deep inside I am still so sad. I hide it well, and I would bet nobody has a clue. Not my family, not friends, not coworkers.
I write things, journal style, in the notes on my phone. Sometimes it seems like I’m writing the same things repeatedly, and other times I think I’m connecting different events, thoughts, and feelings. My ‘wellness coach’ (she DOES also call herself that- sounds less clinical) is encouraging me to be more open to non-traditional western practices, which is fine. She also talks to me about narcissists, which I didn’t get before. If I want to read some of the things I’ve written, she listens. Well, I pay her to listen 🙂 I feel COMFORTABLE telling her what I do so far and I am hoping that I am going to find some better answers, some inspiration, SOMETHING!! Sometimes I just have to be verbal because writing is helpful but not enough. I need to SPEAK AND BE HEARD. I think that’s something I need. That and getting to NYC. I’m guessing I can’t wear flip flops at Cipriani 🙂
May your weekend be a-hole free!
Say Something,
I laughed so hard about your suggestion to have an a hole free weekend. I know this is probably another BS phrase, but we are just in a valley right now. Things have to get better.
I read your words and you share some of the EXACT thoughts I have. I use to have weekend get aways with his lyin’ ass. So, it is tough going on all these trips alone. I plan them out and get really excited. Then I realize I am going ALL by myself.
Is there something we can read about not losing hope? For me there are just peaks and valleys. Maybe I need a wellness coach but I am just not there yet.
If you get any smaller than a six you will wither away. But you have the right idea. Keep setting goals and focus on YOU. TRY.
Have you ever had days were you just feel like you are in some twilight zone. The world that once made you smile is gone. Can it ever be regained? What would it take for you to find joy again?
A day in NYC with a new friend running all over the place and just talking. I think you can get away with wearing the flip flops. You wear whatever makes you smile. I will need them to cause we are gonna walk and talk all day long. They treat me like a queen at that restaurant.
I don’t talk about what I am dealing with to anyone walking around in real life.
I come right here to BR and express myself. I pour all my heart out right here.
Some days it feels like I am just going thru the motions. thank you for being my wellness coach. You really get me.
Hope you are having a great cup of coffee some place.
Hugs,
MJ
Say Something,
Congrats on your project at work. I am raising my glass to salute you.
Drinks in NYC to acknowledge your project.
MJ
MJ – I can relate. It’s almost like a test. This woman and I hit it off so well at a workshop and we became Facebook friends. Many weeks later, she reached out and suggested we hang out. I was all for it. She was moving, so she said, “if I don’t get back to you, it’s not personal.” Well, you can guess what happened… she didn’t get back to me. She went MIA for a few months and then, suddenly today, “liked” one of my posts. I said, “You mentioned you wanted to hang out sometime and I am down for that, if that is a thing you would like to do.” She replied right away but same thing: I am busy, I am traveling, I am not good at setting up plans, it’s not personal. I said, “Sounds great – let me know what works for you!”
I think I almost needed to verify – YES, this person is talking out of her ass and has no intention to actually follow through and will have lots of excuses intended to soften what we both already know: she doesn’t know how to do friendship. Thanks to this website, I’m not sitting here wondering “why she changed her mind” or “what’s wrong with me.” This is how she was when we met and this is how she will be. It feels so good to recognize it from the very beginning and not get wrapped up in pain about it.
Hi Mary Jane,
When I read your comment yesterday I was sitting in my car drinking a large gas station brewed coffee. It was FREE with a fill up, highlight of my day haha! Seriously, it’s come to this! Fresh brewed dark roast with real half and half- gas stations are stepping up their game. I usually don’t go inside.
Of course I feel like I’m in the twilight zone. And we can never ‘go back,’ only forward. So I think of how I’ve said/thought that I just want to feel like myself again, but that self can never be the same. You got me thinking all Walt Whitman and Leaves of Grass thoughts. Too much analyzing!
I actually got asked recently if my exH has a girlfriend. WTF. WHY do people ask me these things? We are LOW contact. I’ve been asked in the past more than once to share his phone #, and what his schedule is like. All I’ve done is pass the #. I refuse to provide any kind of additional insight. Plus WTF!!! See, I can handle dealing with him and with people’s annoying questions. Yes I’m annoyed, but I’m not devastated.
Devastation was two years ago. I cannot wait to walk and talk in NYC. I still need goal clarification beyond fitness and finances! I need to move away from devastation. This weekend I was recalling these specific devastating, last time I saw him words:
Me: I thought you liked me?
Him: I did.
Me: DID? Past tense?
Him: I do.
Along with: ‘I gave you all my free time.’
I am still haunted. When someone doesn’t want a relationship, but pretends to, then BLAMES you for basically existing in his life.
Me: I’m never going to see you again, am I?
Him: (quietly) I think I’m going to be here next weekend. (at his own house)
He couldn’t even be honest to me in person as I was pouring out my heart and crying right in front of him. I was good enough to be in contact with every day. Good enough to spend every weekend with. Good enough to make plans with. Good enough to be a great listener. Good enough to pretend that he really liked me. Good enough to be referred to as a girlfriend. Good enough to f*ck. But not good enough to keep around.
It feels like now, and maybe this is a result of online dating experiences, that I can NEVER be ‘good enough’ because there is ALWAYS competition one click away. It never stops. There are always more choices. Always other possibilities. I cannot be ‘better’ than thousands and thousands of non-stop younger, thinner, taller, prettier, sexier, newer women. It’s like the best set up to fail miserably again and again.
1. Meet great guy
2. Get along great
3. Enter relationship
4. Enjoy relationship, invest emotionally, and think all is well and mutual.
5. Get tossed like trash because ‘the stakes are high’ and he can always do better. ALWAYS.
I don’t want to be the ALMOST. I want to be the ALWAYS.
Say Something,
Glad you got your coffee. I did my spa treatments on Sunday practically all day. PEACEFUL felt like I left earth. Cause I don’t like it here anymore. LOL. I have been listening to some things that are helpful with restoring my peace. Look at this guys videos. This man just appears to be at peace with his journey (as he calls it). His voice is calming. Let me know what you think. See if you can find something you like with his videos as you sit and drink your coffee.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1g5n-TyuoY&ebc=ANyPxKotrB6EzjBQFHvhrbI_Y3PuFtNVAYFp5lAF1NO9uqTgdwm5oIAloWh5r-nOfFetWriX_CjLlFSfDAowySdCh6yPylevkQ&nohtml5=False
I cringed and kicked off my heels when you talked about how men can replace you with the click of a button. True but disturbing. I guess it boils down to choices. I think people just need to be respectful with how they end a relationship. Again, look at his videos. We can’t control how men decide to select another model but we can control how we react. Why have I made a choice to suffer because an asshole decided to cheat? His bs has changed my view of so many things. I was outside just walking one day and I swear everything just looks different. The peaceful soul in the videos talked about how the music of Bossa Nova inspires him. I love music. I did what you have done with tv with radio. Stopped listening as if music has been banded. Today, I went online and forced myself to buy tickets to see Beyonce. Who run the world? Girls! Who run this motha?Yes! I will be dancing my butt off.
I read this about letting go and wanted to share it.
http://dbtselfhelp.com/html/letting_go.html
See the Sunday NY Times travel section an article about women traveling alone really inspired me (along with your encouragement). It helped reassure me that I am doing the right thing. It have found joy with planning out my trips. I am going to keep seeing the WORLD that us girls run!
Who run this motha? You do!
MJ
Hi MJ,
Thank you for sharing the links. Your comments didn’t appear in my feed right away, but I see them now.
I relate to the ‘acceptance does not mean approval’ statement in the DBT article. And also how difficult it is to alleviate suffering. SO difficult.
So my ‘wellness coach’ has pointed out that she thinks I look for ‘the bear in the woods’ in reference I guess to being hyper vigilant about about relationships. She then added that it is difficult for me because “you’re still in love with him”. After I left, I cried. For a L O N G time. I think that if she’s right, then I’m even incompatible with mySELF. I am still not able to step back, and talk about *it* without being overcome by emotions. She asked me what characteristics and values I was looking for, and I realize that I described everything I saw in him. Well, except for the never wanting to see me again/ replacing me part.
Ok, so I have paused on Ralph’s video. It is bothering me that he states that genes don’t dictate biology and that by referencing genetically inherited conditions, one is accepting a victimhood mentality. I DO agree that environment influences us AND that environment can impact us at the biological level (cellular, DNA) but I don’t think our minds can control all of this. I completely believe that a healthy, organic environment makes for a BETTER life. I think being in a healthy environment maximizes potential for positive outcomes, but does not guarantee it, nor does it replace the need for traditional interventions if needed (medically).
Back to the video… I know you said it helps you. I agree with his statement of stress but not that we CONTROL our genetics. That’s radical thinking. Where is the evidence? Maybe I need to watch the entire thing. But I will say I believe we can WORK with our mind to HELP overcome physical and emotional problems. And I think they are tied together, yes.
Anyhow… Yay for you and going to see Beyoncé! I used that song… Who runs the world? GIRLS!! in a video I made for my daughter a few years ago 🙂
The tv/radio thing… Ugh I GET IT. Have you returned to the shoe store? I took a half day so I’m home, and thinking of how the world is seemingly different. Maybe more accurately, I’m in a place in my own mind that affects my ability to appreciate like I used to. I hear my chimes outside and it’s a gorgeous day. But I just don’t care so much right now. And that makes me sad.
((Hugs))
Hi Say Something,
With the videos I wanted to see if you could find something you liked with his series. I just aim to find things that bring me peace. His voice is peaceful in some respects. Try to find someone you enjoy listening to.
I just thought of this. At the spa there is music playing,in the room while I get my massage. Lol. There is some music in my life.
You remembered- No I haven’t been able to go back to that shoe store yet? Sad. I don’t want to ever see him again. I may sneak back over there one day early in the morning. Yep I stopped doing some things I enjoy doing. Not that I need another pair of pumps. EVER. I must have been channeling you just go a gorgeous pair of flip flops.
If I get into a new relationship. I want someone similar to him, but not a liar and cheat. He had a great sense of humor. Kept me laughing. He was so positive about life and just good looking. If you were in a new relationship do you think you could let go of all the hurt?
Sounds like you enjoyed your day off listening to the chimes sounds peaceful.
MJ
Mary Jane,
I’ve been up way too long and it’s way too early but I wanted to share these resources before I forget. On the ‘soundstrue’ website you can purchase CDs or downloadable audio. I download right to my phone. First suggestion is Tara Brach’s “Finding True Refuge”. I’ve also downloaded all the Brené Brown selections. I listen and fall asleep to the guided meditation. Not that it has sunk in yet, but it IS relaxing and educational. (And portable!) I love listening to Nat’s podcasts and have really been making an effort to just listen, to her and others,…. In my own private world.
SS,
Thanks for this information. I am going to get Tara’s book. I already have Brene’s.
I have had people telling me I should not travel so far from home alone to a country where I don’t speak the language. They are making me rethink things. This reminds me of how people keep asking are you dating someone. I just wish people thought before they spout things out.
Should you put off your dreams until you have a partner? I have been traveling alone and being safe. If you could only see how people react about me traveling alone.
MJ
Hi, MJ,
I know your comment was directed at Say Something, but please don’t cancel your birthday trip just because some people are being stupid. I have been traveling (alone and with others) since I was a minor. People will make comments, but you don’t have to let their fears dictate your life. It is completely possibly for a woman to travel alone and be safe.
Here is a link to inspire you. It’s by a single female travel blogger. She writes about solo female travel.
http://www.adventurouskate.com
Freedom Tastes of Reality,
Thanks for sharing this link. I looked at the site and it has some really interesting stuff. You are so right I can’t let someone else’s fears dictate my life.
Thanks.
MJ
Hello, I spent some alone time visiting Singapore. I found it to be one of the safest places on earth and I’m a petite anxious female. They are so respectful there.
I can’t travel on my own so safely in my own country alas. I’m sure you’ll find plenty of other safe places to travel too. Enjoy.
Thank you. I can’t wait for some man to show up and travel the world with me. I am doing it NOW. I also refuse to wait for other people to clear their schedule or gather money to go. IAM flying solo and blocking out all negative feedback.
Sometimes I compare my “the end” to the final show from The Bachelor, where there are two women remaining, both believing to be ‘The One’. But, one of them is only the *almost* even though she was led to believe that she’s about to become engaged and spend her life with this man.I know this is a reality show, but I used to watch it, and cry along with the one being dismissed.
The last “good” night we had together, I clearly remember falling asleep next to him thinking I couldn’t have wished to be with a better guy and that I was soooo fortunate to have him in my life. Plain and simple, I was happy and life felt good. Less than 24 hours later, I was being dismissed.
I don’t know exactly why I relate to that show except maybe because the one not chosen completely believes that the guy loves her, and that they are planning a life together. Her connection feels so strong that she is 100% confident that all is well. But it’s not. And just like that, in a hot Prime-time minute, it’s over.
The morning I left, he walked out with me to my car, even carrying my bag (I didn’t get a limo) because he was so “nice and caring”. He even leaned in my car to kiss me goodbye. Twice. Then told me to let him know when I made it to work. I never sent that text. I don’t know why I continue torturing myself by remembering all these details. I don’t know WHY I am still so sad. I don’t know WHY he didn’t like me but pretended that he did. I know this means incompatible , I know it. WHY am I still so crushed?
Had to get that out…
You said: ‘Should you put off your dreams until you have a partner? I have been traveling alone and being safe.’
No! People react out of fear all the time. Why do people project THEIR fear onto you? Ughhh. Yes, it’s annoying like being asked if I’m dating or if I have a man to accompany me to the bathroom. Last time I was at the dentist in the waiting room, a woman started talking to me about ‘the war’ and how we needed to start stock piling food and supplies and shrink wrap things. It took everything in me to not make a snarky comment. She was totally fearful and apparently stockpiling supplies makes her feel secure. I cannot live like that. I was at a friend’s house a few months ago and the conversation turned to talk of guns and concealed carry permits and protection. When I blurted out that I leave my door unlocked all the time I think their heads separated from their bodies and spun around a bit before I could feel the ‘WTF is wrong with you glares’ coming at me. And no, I don’t have a gun!!! Oh but I SHOULD they told me. We all should. We need to be ready. Not my style.
Don’t let these people stop you!! People operate from fear. They project it. People do it to me all the time. I had another friend who dropped her keys in the snow in her own yard. She was so worried that someone who find them In the thaw and break into her house that she changed the locks. She lives in a quiet neighborhood where snow thawing lost key snatchers do not even exist.
If you are confident in your travel plans and navigation abilities, YOU GO GIRL! If you are looking forward to your trip, please focus on the great experience that awaits you! I just found out my aunt has never put her own gas in her car. My uncle takes care of that. She does not even go to gas stations! WTF!!! Good thing she is not in need of free gas station coffee 🙂
I think the other soundstrue audio I will download is ‘Women who run with the Wolves’ – maybe you might enjoy as well- you can check it out. So just because I would not be comfortable traveling alone like you does not mean it is wrong or unsafe for YOU. We all have different preferences and comfort levels. There are probably things I do that you wouldn’t feel ok with or like.
You are brave and courageous, and you can follow your own way! Keep your focus, and keep going! Be careful when you need to be, but enjoy your life the way YOU want to.
SS,
Thanks for your encouragement. I listened to Tara on you tube. Some things I didn’t like. But she also had some positive thoughts to share.
I have this big map of the world in my office. I look at it and have planned places I want to see. I’m just going for it. My next two trips are planned out in detail. I can’t sit and wait for someone to show up and go.
As I read your post I can tell how badly you have been hurt. If you started dating someone do you think you would be able to let go of these past hurts? I think it would shift my focus.
I think it would also help shift your focus because I feel like now you are questioning your worth. You are more than enough. I hope you know that.
MJ
Hi MJ,
I’m happy to see that you are planning trips and that others shared helpful information. It’s easy to second guess ourselves when presented with conflicting and opposing thoughts and ideas.
I know (and you see) that I have avoided your question:
“If you started dating someone do you think you would be able to let go of these past hurts? I think it would shift my focus.”
I agree that it would shift my focus. Instead I feel the reinforcement of being some sort of anomaly that is undateable. But others will say I need to be happy with myself before I look elsewhere. It’s like a spiral. I WAS happy two years ago. I WAS feeling good when I met him. I WAS confident in myself. I observe and hear about so many f’d up things going on all around me. Pregnant with the guy just out of jail for domestic violence, but he’s with another woman; sleeping with guy 2 while living with guy 1, dating the woman who just found out last year that her husband is screwing her best friend; text breakup with fiancé only to hookup on the same day with guy #2 she’d been cheating with for a year…. The list goes on and I am nowhere close to any of this messed-up-ness. It’s like craziness is acceptable. And if a woman is ‘hot enough’ then she can be batshit crazy and a guy will tolerate it. I am not into trickery, cheating, throwing myself drunk at someone, but I see and hear about relationships that form from these interactions. Just like ghosting is normal I start to wonder if anyone wants stable or decent besides me. I don’t see it. I can’t find it. It doesn’t find me. Beyond the disappointment I express here, everything else in my life is ‘ok’ for the most part. It feels like ok is not enough, and I know that’s not ‘right’ thinking but I’m being honest. I shouldn’t have to be re-branding and marketing myself to find a date and eventually a relationship. Or am I wrong? It’s why I had to leave the online scene last year. It sickens me that he so quickly and easily replaced me with the online competition, while I tried for a year and couldn’t forge any connection.
Looking back I wonder if I was no more than his private prostitute. In almost six months I never received any kind of gift, like most people mention that they might get from a partner. Nada. I don’t even know if that’s normal. But he paid for the food I ate when I was with him, which was probably equivalent to the money I spent on gas round trip to see him. Especially those final words: “I gave you all my free time” and “I feel like I’m living a lifestyle that isn’t mine” which haunt me on a regular basis. He may as well have proclaimed, “I just can’t stand you being around me and this transaction (food for sex) just isn’t worth it anymore.” That’s how it feels for me. I was talking to a married couple recently who were sharing the dynamics of a social circle within our community that they belong to. I asked if there were any single people ever included (sometimes THIS particular couple has invited me when they have organized or hosted an event). My question was answered with an immediate “NO” by both of them which again confirmed my knowledge that I am excluded because I am not partnered like the rest of them. It’s blatantly obvious. I just needed to hear it.
So I continue trying to accept ‘aloneness’ as a long term possibly forever state of being. It goes against what I want out of life, but I also know that I can’t ‘make’ anyone like me. How hard should I have to work for that? I don’t think most people even think about it, it just happens naturally. And I am also trying to accept that the way my life is doesn’t have to make sense. It’s really hard.
Sorry for my rambling. As always, thank you for your kindness.
Say Something,
This man’s videos help calm me. Take a look at them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1g5n-TyuoY&ebc=ANyPxKotrB6EzjBQFHvhrbI_Y3PuFtNVAYFp5lAF1NO9uqTgdwm5oIAloWh5r-nOfFetWriX_CjLlFSfDAowySdCh6yPylevkQ&nohtml5=False
A another site I looked at about letting go.
http://dbtselfhelp.com/html/letting_go.html
Hello there and thank you, thank you, thank you for this website! I actually found out so many things from here!
Almost a year ago I met this, no, not emotionally unavailable, more like half-brained jerk who didn’t have a heart and intentionally played with my feelings. If I didn’t read about the subject, I would’ve probably blamed myself for not being sane or not being worthy for his approval…
I have never met a guy like him; until then I had had only long-lasting serious relationships where the guys did more than they could to please me. That’s why I was so frustrated when he played me (he actually said 4 or 5 times that I was confused because he didn’t give me control… WTF???). I was ill all this time, I used drugs, I did excessive shopping, I was thinking about him all the time! He slept with me once and after that started messing with my head, I could feel his sadism when he saw me sad… I am a very attractive and naive person (also a good hearted one, I cry when I see injustice, especially towards animals or unfortunate people). I didn’t want to think that a human being could take pleasure in seeing another human being sad because of them. He saw me falling apart, he used my emotions as an amusement tool, I saw it, but refused to believe this could be true, because he was showing his insecurities and seemed afraid of me. He needed 3 months to take my number and 2 months to take me out. He said he was afraid I would find how boring he was. He told me so much about how he was neglected as a child… A player doesn’t act so insecure. Maybe that’s what confused me. I have always been able to spot the players and users, but this bat shit crazy coward did confuse me, I confess!
I am a very beautiful woman in my late twenties, I am really intelligent and since early childhood everyone always told me that a person like me is unique. Every guy I dated wanted to have a serious relationship with me. I’ve had several proposals and every one of my ex-boyfriends still say they lost the best thing they ever had. I’ve had several disappointments, which were caused by both of us, and I barely managed to live through them, because I am too emotional and sometimes even suicidal out of sadness. After every breakup I thought I had no more power and no more heart to be broken again from things not working out, but this last… thing… this was just too much! In every guy I could sense the emotions – the good and the bad ones. With this guy I didn’t sense anything and I told him that! He said he couldn’t afford to let himself fall in love or have emotions or a relationship.
Until today I still wasted every second thinking about him and why he made a mockery out of my fragile heart. I cried like a little girl at night and every morning I woke up with sadness, because I knew I would see him and the pain was unbearable… But today I found out he was trying to seduce other girls! What? Seriously? Am I not pretty enough? Am I not smart enough? Am I NOT ENOUGH? You rejected me, managed down my expectations, broke my heart and just moved on with the next one until the thrill wears off, and then the next one and where does this get you? How far will you go down this road until you finally realize where it leads to? I can’t believe I was so stupid… I am so ashamed…
I turned down the guy who wanted to be with me for good because of him??? What was wrong with me? I won’t share the whole details, because this comment is long enough, but, you get the picture. Stupid, stupid girl that believes in fairy-tales gets her hopes ridiculed and heart tortured. I wanted this unavailable prize. He knew it, he knew what he was doing, because he told me so.
Maybe not every EUM is doing it on purpose, but this particular one is! He told me some things that were strange like how “gals stay with jerks and reject nice guys” and “I’m not giving you control, do you feel insecure?”. But I am such a good person, I am so empathetic, how can anyone take pleasure in putting me down? And – most of all – WHY? I feel so bad about every woman living through this… THESE PEOPLE ARE DANGEROUS!!! This is emotional abuse… This fucktard is a woman-hater and takes joy in mentally torturing women. I told him harsh words about his delusional way of thinking and that he was just waiting to die because his was not a real life. I asked him if he had abandonment issues, because of his parents and many other things. By the look on his face I could tell I was the first one 🙂
But now I realize something. This is not only a cruel lesson not to ignore my intuition anymore, but a lesson on how to put those parasites (for me that’s what they are – they feed their egos from people’s misery) on their place. Somewhere I read that the best revenge is him seeing you happy. And until now he only saw me sad because of him and I saw him enlightened from this. But what if he sees the sincere smile on my face? I’ll let him wonder why. Maybe he does not care, maybe he does, it doesn’t matter, the important thing is I’ll come out of this nightmare as a winner. Reality is what you think is real. And in less than a month I won’t be seeing him anymore. The control over your life comes back in your hands only after realizing the truth and the truth is I might still hurt from the heart-break, but I will continue living through the whole specter of my sincere and somehow childish emotions and I will never let anyone do this to me ever again! And he – he will live a half-life “’till the very next day”.
I think a con man’s greatest joy comes when he sees your face when you realize you’ve been played. Control? Alright, you can have control, I like being dominated, but not in the bad way. To have control you have to actually do something. To get someone really loving you you have to reveal your true self. But there isn’t a true self here – I felt the falseness of his every single word – so what could I’ve possibly fell in love with? No, not with my idea of him, no… I fell in love with my hopes. I projected a future based on his cunning tactics. But a person has to have hope in order to survive, right? Yes, he did play a cruel game with my hopes. Why put such gentle titles on this behavior and try to understand those assholes? Why do we call them EUMs, narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths, when the one and only term that manages to describe this abnormal individuals is “assclown”? Yes, I did understand where this came from, but I won’t try to change it anymore. The guy is an assclown, period.
I know my comment was long enough, I rarely write on websites, but I wanted to share how proud I am for managing to open my eyes and see the truth. I can never make a horse out of a chicken, and I can never make an asshole feel something he’s incapable of. I now know this “man” is envious of me – he envies my wholeness as an individual, he envies my capability of mending a broken heart, he envies my grace and my empathy, because this is something he won’t ever have.
So, dear girls, who I can relate to – take a deep breath, try to see the things from above and take those parasitic sadists down from that pedestal! THEY ARE NOT THERE – YOU PUT THEM THERE, YOU CAN TAKE THEM DOWN AND SMASH THOSE SMUG AND WORTHLESS DIPSHITS’ INFLATED EGOS INTO PIECES!
I am starting tomorrow – wish me luck! I have gone through losing the person who I loved the most (my grandmother), I have gone through guilty conscience for over a year about a break up before realizing it wasn’t my fault, I have gone through losing my beloved pets one-by-one and every one of them felt like nature raped my heart, I will go through going up the ladder this pathetic excuse of a man put over my head for a simple ego-boost, I will kick him down and continue rising above him.
I am a lioness and I will act like the one I was before him – strong, joyful and good hearted! All of us can do this, girls, we are better than them, we are emotionally intelligent, self-aware and empathetic. We have something more than logic – we have conscience and it’s a gift. We shouldn’t let emotionally dead sleep-walkers interfere with our precious heads and waste even a second of our lives anymore!
Thank you again for the empowering website and for helping people get their self esteem back! I will foggidaboutit, I know I can, wish me luck!
All,
Sometimes relationships are incompatible because the other person suffers from pathological personality traits. Often we don’t recognize the abnormality because it’s hidden from us or we believe it’s not as serious as it ends up being. I am no expert, so I read what experts have studied.
One of Nat’s earlier posts was about narcissists due to reader demand. For anyone wanting more information, I recommend Sandra Brown’s column:
http://saferelationshipsmagazine.com/the-unexamined-victim
Also I’m not claiming that all incompatible relationships are the result of personality disordered partners. BUT the suffering that so many readers here endure based on stories posted here, suggests that for many (not all, I’m not saying ALL) people, there are common traits (she refers to these GOOD qualities as ‘super traits’) that disordered partners are attracted to and will exploit. If you feel that your trust and sense of self was compromised by your involvement with someone who all but (or actually) destroyed a part of you, then click the link above for more. If you were involved with a straight up assclown with recognizable assclown features, that’s not what I mean. The article is simply a deeper dive into this topic, in which she declares that ‘harm is inevitable’. For some, it may be a helpful and worthwhile read. For myself, I relate to much of Sandra Brown’s analysis, but haven’t yet decided how much and/or if it actually applies to me. (stuck-ness)
With so many reasons relationships don’t work out, when the reason remains unknown, it feels like torture. Natalie is right though, the common theme is incompatibility.
Like you I just continue to read and educate myself.
Say Something,
I believe that what you said about feeling like a prostitute comes from a place of HURT. You are being really hard on yourself today. You just need a hug and some compassion. The wounds you have are deep. I get how you feel. There are days I get so ANGRY about what happened. I end up putting myself down, but I don’t do this as much anymore. I took a walk today almost 11 miles. I was so worn out. After my walk I had the best thought I have had in a long time. I am glad it is over with him. I mean really glad. Did I have to walk till my feet were burning to draw this conclusion? LOL. I guess so. Just a day of reflection about many things. I no longer ruminate about him. Amen.
You mentioned once not having someone take you away on weekends like other couples do. I understand how you feel. I have had neighbors show me cars and fur coats that their husbands purchased for them. I had to buy my own. The feeling of hurt is deeper than the financial piece. Someone cared enough to do something special for them. I want that. I can do things for myself. Like you I want to feel adored again.
On my walk I had some of the same thoughts you shared above. I can’t make someone want me. I have been by myself and I have learned to enjoy myself alone. Lesson learned now send me a great companion. If I were longing for a job everyone would get it. You have to earn money to support yourself. Companionship is no different it is something that WE have decided we need. Some people are just fine without. It is something I have decided that I need in my life.
TRY not to beat yourself up over what he pulled. I finally stopped doing that so much to myself. Your comment takes me back to when I did it and I want to encourage you to be kind to yourself. We can’t control the choices people choose to make. Free will. The way our relationships ended were pernicious. So, we both have poured our hearts out here.
Sometimes people do have rebrand or market themselves to get back into the dating arena. You have to be ready for that and want to do it. I think this time alone has helped me heal and that is critical before starting anything new. I am rebranding by choice. Another thing I reflected on today is what I focus on. I have found that when I have direction and focus on things I need to do. I have less time to focus on what I am missing in my life.
By the way- I have a new friend. YAY. She can’t just pick up and trot around on trips with me and that is ok. I have had a couple of real conversations with her. No texting all the time, but reality is people just want to text. Lazy communication. Sigh. Smile. I wish this ap were not so heavily relied on. Can’t change it now.
Don’t accept the aloneness. I am about to try something new this week and it is just so I can meet new people. I can’t accept this aloneness. I am forcing myself to do certain things each week. Wiser gave me a jolt – I don’t want to fall into the habit of of not being active. Again, I am forcing myself to do things.
Like you I hear all the crazy stories about other people dating and my blood just starts bubbling. Not from jealously but just the stupid things I hear. Someone is treating their partner like dirt and they have a relationship. Today, I heard a couple arguing and said to myself with a laugh- you see what you are missing.
I need a laugh. I have to watch the election stuff (voting in NYC on Tuesday should be interesting). SNL is loving the material they are getting from this election.
Be good to yourself. Sorry for rambling. LOL. Big hug.
MJ
Hi MJ,
To wrap this thread up… A deeply felt thank you for your thoughtful and kind response. I needed a mini BReak from responding. I really need to complete this process of acknowledging and accepting. Need to. Yay for your new friendship and for trying your new ‘thing’ as well. Maybe this wknd I’ll walk extra long. For me, long is not quite as far as you, but maybe I need a longer outing. I’ve seen some SNL and other political spoofs online (bad lip reading makes me laugh). My ballot was cast as well. I don’t want to accept aloneness, but I don’t know how to counter it. I’m tired. I’ve cleaned my house, lost more weight, still read books and articles (BR of course), increased my FICO to over 800, attend wellness coaching, stay active, exercise, work hard, eat fairly healthy, limit alcohol, pay attention to my emotions. Ok, not a complete list, but I think these are the things that would be helpful. Sleep is still not so good. See you in another thread. I wish I could have bday cake with you… Craving some 🙂