When we keep rehashing something, we’re either too caught up in hearing what we want to hear, replaying a ‘backing track’ that makes us small, angry and resentful, or hoping to be struck by new insight.
When disappointed, wronged and hurt, talking about something a lot is natural and necessary.
It’s part of the natural grieving process that arises from experiencing a loss. Each time life doesn’t meet our hopes and expectations, it’s a loss. The event brings up a spot of grieving and reconciliation where we eventually arrive at a more grounded place so that we can move forward.
Rehashing, though, so repeatedly discussing something at length in the aftermath and retelling a story that hasn’t been changed or improved upon, keeps us feeling stuck and bound to that story. This includes feeling stuck to the pain, fear, judgement and guilt contained within it. We become invested in telling the story and resist reaching insight and resolution.
Sometimes rehashing stems from a heightened sense of wrongdoing. It’s feeling that we effed up in a major way. We go over the story time and again to bonk us over the head with it. We keep the story fresh lest we forget how much we screwed up and dare to move on.
It’s the whole I did X, they should have done Y and Z should have happened. We’re convinced that we did everything ‘right’. Based on how we believe that things should go down, we now feel wronged. Or we feel as if our whole world is turned upside down. We’ve based our self-concept and what we think makes us worthwhile on a faulty premise and assumption that calls a hell of a lot into question.
What we don’t always acknowledge is the deeper purpose of rehashing–keeping us safe. Safe from seeing the all-important lessons from the experience; from moving on; from trying again.
We get to feel right even though we feel rubbish.
Something that becomes a point of stress about rehashing though is that the story keeps popping into our head despite our most recent intention to move on. We may have decided that we’re sick of thinking/talking about something and just assumed that the story would cease to show up.
Let’s say we rehashed it every morning for however many weeks or months. We will now associate that story with that portion of our morning, with the start of each day. Whatever we were doing, such as commuting to work, having a coffee, avoiding having to think about deliverables, or out for a jog, our mind thinks that it’s what it’s supposed to bring up. The same goes for a particular friend we talked about it a lot or that show or song that triggered a rehashathon.
If each time we felt vulnerable and maybe said self-critical stuff, we responded with thoughts of being inadequate, too old, too this, not enough that, and then we piled on with mentally raking over what happened, it’s become a habit. We’ve learned to associate our sense of ‘enoughness’ with this story.
The fact that we keep thinking about something or it keeps popping up doesn’t mean that it’s relevant to our present-day situation or that it’s even accurate.
If we’ve been thinking about something a lot and saying the same thing over and over again, we’ve trained ourselves into a hearing loop. We think about it out of habit, not a conscious choice of thoughts.
With the latter, we recognise what the rehashing has become a cover for. We make a new choice and gain new understanding. We acknowledge where we soothed ourselves with pain. Maybe we see what we got out of telling a story (the payoff) such as attention, to feel like a victim, to feel special in a twisted way. It may have been to feel as if we were paying off our guilt about something else that we’re probably not even responsible for, or even if we were, it’s clear there are more meaningful and productive ways to learn from a wrongdoing.
If we’re repeating a story again and again, and over time, we feel worse, less ourselves, stuck and more, then guess what? We’re not telling it right! We’re lying to ourselves about something.
After a while, we have to commit to catching ourselves before we jump on the Rehashing Express and ask:
Is what I’m going to say/think again going to lead to somewhere good?
Do I have some fresh, positive insight that releases me just a little bit more?
Nope, OK, not getting on.
By focusing our energy on being conscious, aware and present, we gradually feel more in command of ourselves and as a result, less attached to the security blanket of the narrative. And it is one because we don’t have to look too closely at ourselves and we get to see us (or someone else) as the villain.
When we realise that we’ve been riding the Rehashing Express, we have an opportunity to look for new insight, to see things in a way that we weren’t able to before. We might suddenly recognise the parallels between this experience and a hurt or loss from our past. We might suddenly make the connection about the similarities between this person and, for example, our mother. All of a sudden we get to see why this experience was important.
Keep in mind that acknowledging our rehashing doesn’t mean we should silence ourselves. It means that we need to take care because our thoughts and words do hurt us. Admitting that, yes, in some instances we might have been obsessing over something is the path to being able to help us acknowledge that behind this story is actually a great deal of pain. We can then help ourselves. This acknowledgement might be the first time we truly extend ourselves some genuine compassion and start to talk about what we really need and what’s really bothering us.
The answer isn’t to silence ourselves.
That starts with acknowledging the baggage behind what happened.
We still tell the story from time to time but it’s different because we’re healing, growing and learning not tying us to the past. There’s a progression.
We tell it less over time. And it’s not because we think we’ve exhausted our audience but because we’re truly ready to be done. It’s not our showpiece, our calling card or the thing that we’re making ourselves near ill over.
We’re conscious of not wanting to make ourselves feel bad.
We’re conscious of not wanting to talk ourselves into giving away power.
We can visit the events without taking up residence. We genuinely want to move on and find even a chink of light in there to find our way through because we remember that we’re human and that it’s down to us to give ourselves permission to move on.
Ultimately, when our desire for something else is greater than our need to hold on to the story or to stay afraid, we commit to choosing and re-choosing each day, to let go.
Your thoughts?
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It’s suddenly hit me about why I’ve been stuck for a year despite the relationship barely lasting a month. I thought it was because he sold me so hard on how he felt for me and then poof, retreated leaving me feeling like I’d massively screwed up. But it’s the rehashing. I know he wasn’t the man for me but behind all of this is the hurt I still feel about dad never coming through and it’s like I haven’t wanted to let him or my ex off the hook. And of course I haven’t had to really properly date for a year and I’ve blamed it on so many things, especially my hurt but really, I’m terrified of commitment.
A lot of this resonates with me. Having a child with someone has and is making it harder for me to ‘move on’ essentially because I’m holding on to hope. Hope that he will be a father to our child rather than his current ‘dead beat’ absent behavior. Hope that he might be the person I thought he was, not the person he now seems to be. Not hope that he’s going to have an epiphany and we’re all going to live ‘happily ever after’. Just hope he’s not going to damage my daughter via absence and also cause me guilt for him being her father in a messed up situation…
So I’ve been going around in circles looping the ‘re-hashing’ in varied forms of hope/resentment/fear (for my child)/questioning and general emotional ‘soup’! Both verbally and mentally….for about 3 years!! However, lately I’ve noticed I’m getting REALLY annoyed with certain friends who bring it all up, ask me how it’s ‘going’ and then re hash their views on the situation, on what I should do, what he should do etc etc Some getting very angry with me, because they’re angry with him! I’ve had to tell/ask two friends to “stop talking about it” or “can we talk about something else because I don’t want to feel stressed out talking about this, again”. I feel like they’re dragging me into re hashing when I feel I’m reaching point of knowing that’s what it is and wanting to stop repeating it!
Whilst I do want to be able to talk with friends about the situation sometimes in a ‘safe place’ I don’t want to re hash because they are re hashing, un-requested! It’s weird, because I’ve really needed their friendships since my child was born (even when I was solo prego) but as time goes on and I recognise that I NEED to move on I feel like I need to ask them to do the same?!
One friend never brings it up but is always sound if/when I do want to talk with her about it. I love her for that and feel safest talking with her about it. Should I now tell other friends ‘please don’t bring it up unless I do’ because, quite frankly, it’s triggering!!
Any thoughts/suggestions please? x
ooops I’m new to posting and didn’t mean this as a reply to previous person, sorry! Was just a general re hash thoughts post x
To A New Day: I know very few details of your situation, but the primary thing that comes to mind is to reassure you that you are NOT accountable for other people’s short comings. When someone treats you poorly or lets you down, it’s not because you deserve it, I have found that it’s usually because they either:
A. Don’t respect you and figure they can get away with it, or
B: They bit off more than they could chew and over-extended or over-comitted themselves.
This feels crummy to say, but it sounds like your scenario is the former. Again, the ownership is on THEM for their own behavior. You can’t make someone be a better person. I think so many of us are guilty of giving someone a “pass” when they treat us badly, even though we know better. That’s what makes them think they can get away with it! It’s easier to see the situation clearly and objectively, with no emotions influencing our behavior, from the outside looking in.
Just know that you deserve happiness, and you are selling yourself short by letting the selfish behavior of others cheat you out of that happiness. I would bet they’re not losing any sleep over it, why should you?
One last thought… something that has helped me is to get mad, not sad. It helps me to put that person in my past.
Susie,
Do you have a parent by chance with some of these characteristics? I was also involved with someone who lied constantly (even about things there would be no reason to lie about). I also noticed the lies but didn’t always confront him. I suspect it’s because I knew he would just become belligerent and try to turn things around…and never admit it in any case. And some of the lies were only troubling because of the fact that he was lying….I ultimately realized that the behaviour was quite similar to a parent in a way – not exactly the same, but I have a parent who talks constantly, “embellishes”, and never admits to anything. Neither of my parents will ever discuss anything even remotely touching on emotions, which was also the case with this guy, and sounds like yours as well.
I’m the same about needing to understand – I think in these types of situations this trait can be problematic. Instead of just recognizing shady behaviour and moving on, we get confused by it and try to figure it out.
I also discovered that along with the constant, less consequential lies were some big ones – it turned out that this guy had two children by two different women that he had neglected to mention (in addition to another child by a third woman which I did know about. Maybe he would have lied about that one too if not for the fact that I already knew about this child through an acquaintance).
In any case, I’m sorry that you’ve gone through this, but at least you got out sooner rather than later – it really does seem like you dodged a bullet.
A – yes, I DO have a parent like that. Not one, but both of them! They have been divorced for nearly 20 years and they have very different lifestyles, so their lying comes about in different ways, but they BOTH lie to me! I don’t know of them doing this during my childhood, and I can’t pin point exactly when it started, but it never takes me very long to realize when they’ve lied to me. Sometimes they just do the whole “lying by means of omission” thing (which seems to be very popular amongst frequent liars), where they claim ignorance or a lack of knowledge of something.
Both of my parents are severe alcoholics (one has been for my entire life, the other picked it up in the past 15 years or so during an abusive relationship that’s since over). I’m definitely not looking for sympathy – their alcoholism isn’t something I feel self-pity over, but the fact that they ARE alcoholics is a factor in their lack of judgement, hence, leading to the lying. One of my parents, over the past few years, has gotten into this new habit where they very overtly treat me like garbage, with name calling, lashing out, and just spewing pure hatred. I honestly believe that this parent would sell me off into a human trafficking ring if their ego was stroked enough by the traffickers. I also know this parent loves me, but is just a toxic person who I can’t help, so after a handful of years of the outbursts followed by apologies, followed by more outbursts, I have cut off all contact, and as mean as this might sound, I’m really okay with that. The other parent has health issues and has been on the verge of death (with admissions into the ICU) twice in the past 2 years. That one lies out of shame and thinks nobody realizes it, even though it’s blatantly obvious.
I agree with you about dodging a bullet. I made it pretty easy for him to lie to me and it was my mistake not calling him out on it, but I was nearly positive that his reaction would be to either turn the tables on me (as in, I would be wrong for doubting or questioning him) or he would refuse to participate in the conversation, and for some crazy reason, I wasn’t ready to give up on the relationship yet. On the bright side, he confirmed a little golden nugget that I had suspected based on some of my past experiences:
***The easier you make it for someone to lie to you, the easier their lies are to identify!***
Think about it…if someone thinks you’re onto them, they are going to take much more care to cover their tracks. Make it easy for them to lie to you and they don’t work as hard to hide it because they think you aren’t catching on. Haha. Works with any type of relationship, not just significant others.
Seeing such a reflective comment makes my heart so happy! Although painful, it appears you’ve made some important and difficult to spot realizations. It’s a beautiful thing 🙂
I feel the same way. The relationship lasted 6 months and a year later I am still thinking about him and all my mistakes.
I’m a compulsive re-hasher. I obsess constantly and, like Natalie describes, “hope to be struck by new insight.”
I am very fresh off of the end of a 1 year relationship. It started out with him pursuing me. I was not in a place in my life where I was interested in beginning a new relationship, but I gave it (and him) a chance because I thought if I didn’t, I could be missing out on something that could be really great. The lies started almost immediately, everything from his last name (which is weird thing to lie about, and I quickly learned his real last name) to all kinds of excuses about why he “missed” my calls or texts (lost his phone, bad cell service, the call/text just didn’t come through, phone service shut off, etc.). Lots of lies about where he was at different times. Then the odd lies, like telling me statistics that don’t exist. Sooooo many lies. On top of the lying, he was unreliable and often unavailable. He could never (literally, never) make plans in advance and always had an excuse as to why he couldn’t commit to plans. To be fair, I should mention that we live a couple of hours away from each other and he does have a 6 year old child (who I had a wonderful relationship with) who he has every other week, but still… in his case, the schedule with the kid DOES NOT fluctuate, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to make plans or reservations or schedule an event once in a while. Things weren’t adding up (obviously) and I tried half-heartedly and unsuccessfully to end it, not once or twice, but at least five times that I can count right now off the top of my head. I always ended up agreeing to give it more time for things to work. Eventually I stopped trying to end it because things seemed to go a bit smoother when I wasn’t trying to break up (odd concept, huh?), but about a month ago, I did something that I hate having done to me. I was becoming pretty bitter about how he was treating me, and after so many failed break up attempts, I didn’t know what else to do. Attempts at candid conversation with him had failed so many times in the past. So I made myself less available to him. We didn’t talk or see each other much for the last while, but he really wasn’t putting in any effort either. He then began ignoring me completely. After one year of dating, and he couldn’t even have a conversation with me to officially end it.
Now I’m OBSESSING over it! I know he’s the wrong person for me, but I still find myself constantly going over every detail that I can remember and analyzing and dissecting and searching for some new “evidence.”
In spite of and in-between all of the break up attempts, I really did put an awful lot into this relationship. I’m mad that none of my break up attempts were successful (especially since he was playing games for so much of the relationship – why keep dragging me through that?), I’m mad that I gave him so much benefit of the doubt, I’m mad that he doesn’t even respect me enough to have a conversation ending the relationship (did I mention, after A FREAKING YEAR!?!), and most of all, I’m mad and really hurt that I led with my heart and not my head. I am a good person with plenty of good qualities, and I keep picking apart what could be so awful about me that he would treat me the way he did (I can be difficult, I’m not flexible enough, maybe I’m not as nice as I think I am, etc.). So far I’m 7 days NC. Fingers crossed for the next 7.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with you. Everyone has flaws and those flaws don’t give people a right to treat you like dirt. He is a piece of shit… that’s it that’s all!
Free2BeMe, as simple as your response was, it nearly brought me to tears (the power of kind words!) Thank you so much. I only found BR about a week ago but have been so touched by the kindness, support, and acceptance that the women (and sometimes men) show on here to one another. Where are all these people in real life!?!
To Natalie, thank you for creating such a wonderful community! I can relate to so many of the situations others have described in older comments (single in my mid 30s, no children, been taken advantage of far more than I’d like to admit, and being my own worst enemy in most of my past relationships). Although I am new to this site, I really feel like I’m among friends.
Susie, here’s one way to think of obsessing. Go ahead. It’s not the healthiest thing to do but it’s better than actually contacting him and restarting the mind-effing.
A couple interesting things you said there. You said that you feel you did something – which is ghosting. But really I think you were testing to see if he would pick up the slack. And he didn’t. You experimented and I think you did the right thing in response to his non response. You consider this a breakup which it is. However you shouldn’t think how come I didn’t get the conversation or the closure. First you yourself could have said something. You could have called him at any point and said it’s over. The fact you didn’t means you weren’t ready to leave him maybe or say the final words yourself, to take the responsibility for the breakup. You aren’t fully ready to say it’s over and are maybe leaving a tiny door open. I’m not saying you should call him. I’m saying you’re wishing for an explanation which comes from his initiative which leaves you in the same dynamic as in the relationship – waiting for him to step up. And if you see your relationship in that light it was all about waiting for him to step up. You knew he wasn’t. And you were waiting.
So I think you should rehearse scenarios in your head. If you bump into him somewhere and he asks you out. If he calLs you or texts you or sends a pigeon. What will you do? I needed my friends to keep giving me some good tough love slaps saying no you cannot even have coffee with this guy he is not your friend even step away (actually a friend said to me from the beginning, in all caps, RUN.).
He is not a good candidate for a healthy relationship. Who lies about their first name? How can you have any meaningful conversation – let alone one about a breakup which many people cannot do well – with someone that lies about their first name?
I think Nat has a post on lying. Lying is a form of abuse and potentially someone trying to break down your sense of reality. It is in my opinion the most serious of relationship faults because it erodes trust. I think you are very mild about his lying. With that kind of lying how do you even keep a straight face when talking to him? How can you take him seriously?
I mean imagine talking to a girlfriend. ‘And you know what? He lied about his first name!’ ‘Ha ha ha ha who does that!’ ‘I know right.’
Did you bring that up to him? The last name thing? If not, what truths are you avoiding?
Suki, your response was so accurate. I was NOT really ready to leave him and I WAS leaving the door open. Not because I thought it was a great relationship, so much damage had already been done that I would never be able to fully accept down the road. I think it was the dread of starting over (I’m uncomfortable and awkward meeting new people), along with trying to “wish” him into really being the person he wanted me to think he was (I’m smart enough to know that doesn’t really work, I just wasn’t really being logical). And you are right, I was being mild about the lying. I never brought up the lie about his last name, once I knew his real last name, it was handled as if the lie never happened (which was a mistake/missed opportunity on my part).
On our first date, a dinner at a nice restaurant, the owner of the restaurant came over to ask us how our meal was. He gave the owner his ‘analysis’ of the meal, and proceeded to tell him that he was a chef. The owner asked him where, he said in a vague manner that he did private consulting on the other side of the state (near where he lives, a couple hours away). I had only known him a couple of weeks at this point, so I thought maybe that’s just something that I didn’t know about him yet…but that was a lie too! I’m telling you, he lied about all the things you commonly hear about in relationships (who he’s with/where he was, what he was doing when he missed my call, etc.), but he also told really odd lies! I came to realize that he couldn’t even be honest with himself. There were small glimmers of times when he seemed to put forth an honest (no pun intended) effort, but those times were just that, glimmers, that never lasted longer than a month, MAYBE two. It’s sad to me that he can’t even be honest with himself, but I can’t fix that, and I wouldn’t even be willing to try, given the amount of disrespect he’s shown towards me. Because he wasn’t physically or verbally abusive, the signs of disrespect were more subtle and a bit sneaky for me to identify. And in response to your question of how I could take him seriously or keep a straight face, it became uncomfortable for me to respond to him when I knew he was lying to me. I must’ve shown some signs of doubting him though, because he actually said to me last time I saw him (about 5 weeks ago), he was tired of feeling like I doubted him or that I had to be right about everything. There is some truth to that, when I am wrong, I like to understand why, which can (unintentionally) come off as questioning the other person or being argumentative, but my initial thought was, so now you’re faulting me for not believing your lies? ???????????? That’s a good one.
It’s now been 8 days of no contact, and with each day I see things more and more clearly. A few days ago, I wrote down in a notebook some of the things he lied to me about in addition to all the reasons that I shouldn’t want anything to do with him (independent of the lies). I quickly filled up 2 full pages, front and back, plus the full front of a 3rd page. Having a reminder in writing has been really helpful in resisting the urge to contact him, and it’s even lessened the ‘cravings,’ so to speak, quite significantly.
Thank you so much for your response, to have someone else say to me what I tried so hard to talk myself out of believing gives me a bit of my sanity back and just confirms that I need to trust my gut more instead of letting someone else make me question my own judgement.
Susie, I think there are a few factors at play here. First you are fresh out of the situation. Give yourself permission to ‘feel’ it and do a relationship autopsy (read that in a Dr. Phil book). Also you were in a LDR and I know that with LDR’s issues come to a head a lot later than they would or should if it was a relationship where the couple is seeing one another everyday. I think the issue here, like with most of us women is that we are over it in terms of dating and we just want to be with the right man for us al-friggin-ready. I think we as women who are at certain ages and stages of life never imagined that we would be ‘still trying’ at this point in our lives. The down right fatigue is real and justified. Also, feeling like we are in a mine field full of guys who just down right act like they are not fully developed as humans. Some act like their head is not attached to their body and they are fragmented, some are pathological, lack character, lack self awareness and self honesty, some refuse to grow up. The spend their whole lives wearing a mask, machinating, and manipulating. That is how they go through life.
Of course we understand that malignant personalities are out here in the world, but when we are dating and looking for a mate, we have to expose ourselves to what seem to be a minefield full of them when we are already over the process in of itself.
To land the plane here, let me ask you something, before the break up/fade out and everything, what made his lying okay to you?
ljsrmissy – thank you for the response and advice. You hit the nail on head with multiple points.
To answer your question about what made his lying okay… until the last few months, his lies weren’t immediately obvious to me. Whether it took me a day or a week to realize I had been lied to, it was long enough past that I felt like I missed the boat on calling him out on it.
When we first started seeing each other, he was a bit difficult to get to know. That added cloudiness to being able to identify his lies. Eventually it got to the point where I knew when I was being lied to. I tried to let him know that I knew I was being lied to (albeit, in a non-accusatory and non-specific way) and I opened the door for him to come clean, but he never did. I consider myself a very strong woman but he just weaseled his way under my radar, and I let him stay there.
So, to summarize, his lying was never okay, I was just unrealistically hoping that he would some how pull his head out of his rear end and undo the damage he had done, which obviously never happened.
Honesty isn’t always pretty, but I’m a super-literal, honest-to-a-fault kind of person. It was never going to work as long as he couldn’t even be honest with himself, much less be honest with me. I do appreciate that I didn’t lose more time playing games with him, but I do feel sad for him, there were small fleeting moments where I saw a decent, genuine version of him. But I guess that’s probably why I stuck around for a year, if it was ALL bad, I would’ve checked out early on. Men sure are tricky.
Susie,
I totally get it. The feeling like ‘I get it, I am going to sit back and see if he gets it himself.’ And when they are not being honest and realistic to themselves, there is nothing that we can do. You also said that he was unreliable and often unavailable and disrespectful…On top of being two hours away Was he the guy, was that the relationship that you truly wanted? Did you truly feel that experience was worthy of you and reflective of the experience of you you were trying to create for him? (I’m going somewhere with this. I am not asking this with a judgey intent).
I actually think that these guys are plenty aware, they just like to act like they don’t know what we are talking about to be manipulative.
Nailed it. I’ve dated a guy like ‘Susie’s’ almost uncanny m.o. included. He was/is fully aware and intentional in his actions or lack thereof. In that one cases they have little insight to effect they truly have on others because so many people hide it from them or they rationalize it. Lying about that much from start creates deficit that mostly is unrecoverable. Sure he has personal issues but everybody does and never excuse for disrespect. It is easy and partially good to pity these guys (or woman) because some lie out of shame for who they truly in their own estimation it’s possible for them to be honest decent people but they need to be held accountable if there’s any chance of that. By being polite and avoiding conflict we are doing them a favor they will never reciprocate* unless they do it to manipulate and get what they want. And literally admit to waiting to get what we want is an admission we currently aren’t getting that and are being passive aggressive. It’s too much future oriented and waiting for the jackpot fairy tale that will never happen. No fairy tale ever starts once a time a guy was enamored and magnificent he deceived me about his name and preceded to disrespect me for months/years/ an hour etc.
G.G.S: Lol @ once upon time… very true! It’s nice to know that I’m not the only one who fell for someone like this.
What you said about lying partially out of shame, it’s like you’ve met him! That is part of the reason I believe he’s not honest with himself, he isn’t happy with or proud of who he is, so he has created a “better” version of himself in his own mind. I didn’t want the “better” version! I wanted the honest and genuine version, flaws and all!
And I absolutely pitied him (like you said), I’ve mentioned twice in previous comments that “I feel sad for him” about one thing or another. I was holding onto hope that he could find his way into being honest with me, but that never happened.
One of my last contacts with him was me sending him an email that said in part: “I was optimistic that you would address your past lies so we would be able to move forward together but instead of addressing them, you allowed them to continue to grow until you couldn’t maintain the lies any longer.” I didn’t have unkind intentions with that email (and it really wasn’t unkind), I sent it to let him know that his lies did not go unnoticed, and they took away from who he was, not enhanced who he was. It’s not a direct confrontation about it (he wouldn’t have been receptive to a direct confrontation), but I hope it helps him realize that he doesn’t have to lie his way through life. Yeah, there I go being optimistic again!
Ljsrmissy: That describes it perfectly, I was waiting (and waiting and waiting) to see if he ever got it. There were occasional signs that he did and that things were getting on the right path, but it was always temporary.
For my mention of him being disrespectful towards me, it wasn’t that he was verbally abusive (he definitely was not), it was more subtle than that. It came in the form of things like telling me that he would call when he finished [insert activity here – got home, got out of a meeting, put his child to bed, etc.], but then I wouldn’t hear from him until the next day, or sometimes a couple days later! This happened frequently. It also came in the form of him being unsupportive, like if I accomplished something I worked hard for, he would minimize or diminish the accomplishment and the effort that went into it. One time he told me he picked up on me being upset with him. I confirmed that I was. He didn’t ask what I was upset about, but he DID apologize…said he was sorry that I was upset. Lol, not sorry that he did something upsetting to me, but sorry that I was upset. Subtle, but still unsettling that he:
1. Didn’t inquire why I was upset with him (maybe he already knew, but still, ADDRESS THE FREAKING ISSUE!)
2. Passively put the ownership of the problem on me – the problem, in his eyes, was in me being upset, not that he did something hurtful or upsetting
As far as him being a couple hours away, he asked me to move in with him. I was willing to explore the idea, but that obviously would have required some more conversation beyond just agreeing to do it, and he was unwilling to discuss any details, he just wanted it to happen. I do think he was being sincere in wanting me to move in with him, but I don’t think he wanted to address any of the less glamorous details that needed to be sorted out (how will we handle finances, how will we logistically combine our physical belongings from two homes into one, what special considerations are there in regards to his child, etc.). I would never consider moving under such haphazard circumstances, so it got put on the back burner.
To answer your question about if this was really the relationship that I truly wanted, the answer is no, not as it stood. I thought that some of the issues came from it being long distance and with some effort, the days and weeks of blissful happiness that occurred sporadically, might become the new norm. But I did see Natalie’s post about crumbs (none is better than some), and although it was a bit more than crumbs, that’s essentially what I was holding on to.
Your statement about men acting like they don’t know what we’re talking about to be manipulative actually made me chuckle. I completely agree. Denying the obvious, along with telling us that we must’ve lost our mind, trying to convince us that WE are crazy for seeing something that “isn’t there” but so clearly is. Not so funny when they’re doing it, but kind of funny afterwards just based on the ridiculousness of it.
I think this is a great follow up peice to the “Blind Spots” blog. I posted under the “Blind Spots” blog peice asking the BR community for insight as to the reason I was having difficulty moving on after the very toxic, dysfunctional relationship I ended over a year ago. Many BR readers pointed out I was giving the relationship and him too much power and my thought had become habit. As Nat has now described, rehashing the relationship without any new insight or evidence. It had been my habit to rehash the relationship, him, or his new girlfriend every morning while I showered before work or during my runs. If something reminded me of him (which was just about everything!!), I would start the rehashing all over again. It simply became habit. A habit I had trained my brain to have. I created the habit, not him or the toxic relationship, me alone. But by June (the relationship had been over for 15 month. I had been involved with him for almost 2 years), I had had it with the train wreck of rehashing thoughts. I jut wanted them to stop. So I reached out to the BR community for help and support. I also downloaded Nat’s “Get Out of Stuck Guide” and worked through the exercises.
Some things I realized, as Nat also points out, if I would have spiraling thoughts/feelings of not feeling good about myself, my thoughts would automatically go to him or the toxic relationship. It was this dysfunctional way of making myself feel even worse. Another thing I realized was that thinking about him or the relationship (or his new girlfriend) was a distraction to dig even deeper into myself. For example, I have always struggled with body image issues. My weight has fluxated most of my life. I’ve never really dealt with my body image issues. In the recent months, I’ve entertained the idea of attempting to date again. I would tell myself, “If you lose 5 more pounds, you can start dating.” As Nat has written about, moving my own goal posts and not dealing with the real issues. I was starting to obsess about my body, stare at pictures of myself now and 2 year ago when I was thinner. Picking out flaws and identifying where my fat was. I would then start rehashing the toxic relationship, where I failed, being angry at myself all over again for being so “stupid.” The rehashing thoughts were “easier” than dealing with the body shaming thoughts I was having. So I finally made the decision to tackle my body image issues. I have always exercised, but I kicked it up a notch. I have also cleaned up my eating habits; eating mostly fruits and vegetables and hardly ever eating out. I feel so much better because I have taken charge of the situation and changed my lifestyle.
Since June, I am in such a better place. Thank you to the BR community and to Nat. I very rarely think of him or the relationship during my morning showers. I go hours and hours without thinking of him (I usually couldn’t go more than 5 minutes without thinking of him). I very rarely talk about him. I used to censor my conversations because I knew most of my friends were tired of hearing the same story over and over. Now, I don’t even want to talk about him. What is there to say??? It is a freeing feeling to let go of the rehashing thoughts. I feel so much lighter, calmer, and more stable. Some thoughts still linger, but the thoughts are like a conveyer belt in my mind, they just pass through and then they are gone. My therapist told me, “Thoughts are like a conveyer belt and you can pick and choose which ones to hold on to and which ones to let pass.”
To other BR readers, there is light at the end of tunnel. Be patient and compassionate with yourself. You are worth the hard work. Some days you will win, some days you won’t. But don’t give up!!! You owe it to yourself. Be the person you seek and treat yourself with love, care, trust, and respect.
As an aside, Nat, during your Podcasts when you say, “Check yourself,” I follow it up in my mind with, “before you wreck yourself.” When we don’t check ourselves before making decisions, sometimes we do end up wrecking ourselves!
Sometimes men take time to unfold and you have to let that process happen as a relationship unfolds. If a man lies about anything then that is a massive red flag as he is likely lying about many other things. If there are any red flags then I go. Amber flags and I write down all the pros and cons with a man then step back and look at it as they sometimes include red flags. If the Cons outweigh the pros and hit 12 then I’m out it is abort, don’t pass go and collect. My ex husband hit 30 Cons and another man hit 57! Yes you read these right. I am told that I am cynical but I have every right to be. The woman who told me this is a serial dater and each man is the one with the most chemistry then you’ve guessed it he eventually goes. I think she is desperate so her calling me cynical I take with a pinch of salt. She knows that I am not prepared to waste my time chasing unsuitable men and don’t need a man in my life to complete me as a person of define me as a woman. This woman probably recognises my strengths which show up her failings.
I have 3 non negotiable musts in a man, honesty, integrity and fidelity. If writing down his characteristics makes me take look at a situation with my head not my heart or the chemistry then that is good. I keep the list of these two other men’s failings to make sure I don’t let my guard down too easily and to remind me of what I endured not because I am rehashing or living in the past but it makes me think more clearly. I also know that if you think something is happening in a situation then it often is. My gut instinct is 100% and I’ve learnt to follow it unfailingly. I know that any sort of addiction past or present is a no go including workaholics as they will never be present and I am not going to be second best for a man. If I stay single then so be it but I am more likely to become even more cynical dating unsuitable men who are time wasters just to say I am dating and be part of the masses than I am remaining single. There is more to life than having a man!
This article is so relatable for me. One year after a break up I’ve finally loosened the grip of rehashing the story and it has opened up space in my life for new things.
It still comes up often enough in my head to be embarrassed about it but I’m learning to stay mindful through it.
When Nat wrote that we use the story in our present circumstance as evidence but it’s not, it’s just habit – that was a real eye opener and realization of grace. I had my suspicions that’s what it was but it is nice to have it validated by someone who writes to it and just another person.
Great article xx
I am a marrried woman who has been involved with an EUM for 25 years. I never felt strong enough to get a divorce but have been getting stronger through therapy, gone back to school and become very successful in my career. EUM is an alcoholic, as was my mother and has been going down while I’ve been going up. In the fall, I told him I would never be with him in a real way because of the drinking. He seemed to accept it and we continued our relationship. Due to circumstances, I was not able to see him for many months and recently found that he is in another relationship with a woman who lives 450 miles away. He never told me and continued to act as normal and say I love you’s etc. Although I realized that there is not a future with him, I am devastated. Maybe I secretly hoped he would quit drinking and then we could be together. He is a complete assclown-he claimed he wanted to go after the real deal-she was his first true love and has always had a piece of his heart, etc. I got so desperate that I asked if he would stop seeing her if I left my h. and he said no, he wanted to see where it goes with her. Then he asked me to go to a hotel with him! I am well rid of him but can’t break the cycle of obsessive thinking. I keep re-hashing, what if I had made time to see him, done this or that? He had re-created the same thing with her that he had with me, an infrequent, distance fantasy relationship so my brain can’t understand why we couldn’t just keep what we had. I know better and yet I can’t stop. I really want him out of my head forever. If I’m not talking about him with my friend, I’m doing it internally. I’ve been journaling, seeing friends, going to therapy, taking yoga classes and he is a constant presence in my head which is filled with should-haves. I should have dumped him years ago-that’s the re-hashing I wish I was doing instead.
Lee: First, I’m sorry that you are still going through such heartbreak, and the fact that you are married to someone else doesn’t mean your heartbreak is any less painful.
I do agree with Feisty that you were never present for either man, it’s not possible when the relationship is founded on dishonesty and scandal (I’m not judging or taking a stab at you, there’s just no denying that this was a deceitful situation).
It sounds like anything I would’ve suggested to you, you’ve already tried, but there is one thing I’m not sure if you’ve done.
Focus ONLY on his less appealing attributes – How dare he waste your time for all those years, and who the eff does he think he is to treat you like a worthless material possession in asking you to meet him at the motel in the scenario you described above? Your temporary state of desperation does NOT give him that right. GET MAD! Then move on from there. He didn’t value or respect you. And I appreciate that you actually used the word desperate to describe your condition at that time, I think it signifies that you are being honest with yourself, and I don’t know that most people would be quite so humble.
To wrap it up, this man has wasted so much of your past. Don’t let him rob you of enjoying your present and future. As I said earlier to “A New Day,” he’s not losing sleep over you. Don’t waste your life away obsessing over him. Finally, if nothing else works, consider exploring a therapy session or two to see if that might be a track to consider. If you don’t know where to start, you could start with a local religious leader (probably one you don’t currently know) and ask them if they can help you get started in the right direction.
One more last thing that I’m curious about. Would you be comfortable sharing why you haven’t left your husband? To be completely up front, I’m wondering if he’s abusive, dependent on you/disabled, etc.
He is disabled. He wasn’t at the time I started the affair. Back then, he paid me no attention and I was so damaged, codependent, financially unstable and without a support system that I started an affair instead. It doesn’t excuse what I did and it’s true that I was EU to both as both f them were to me. Later I stayed for my kids and now he’s disabled. I may end up leaving or I may try to work on it-I’m still deciding. Some of what I am grieving is the loss of my old, powerless, insecure self because I was that person for so long and it was familiar and being strong is not. Yes, I did so a bad thing and so did my h. His affair was with work, sports, hobbies. He abandoned me and was entirely selfish and unsupportive. I’m nt justifying but explaining.
Lee: Thank you for the elaboration. I can’t even imagine the agony you’re going through with all the different angles to this conundrum, but I do understand that it is not a cut and dry situation.
In regards to you grieving the loss of your old self, is it possible that it’s not your old self that you’re grieving, but that time of your life? Stick with me here… Maybe there were things about that time period that you’re nostalgic about – your kids being younger, family members who may no longer be around, traditions that have gone to the way-side, you didn’t yet have the ‘burden’ of school/responsibilities that come with moving up in your career… Maybe it was just a simpler and less complicated life back then and that’s what you really miss?
Establishing more independence after feeling powerless and insecure for so long can absolutely be scary and intimidating…but it’s also empowering. You don’t NEED to be in a relationship that doesn’t offer mutual appreciation, respect, and UNCONDITIONAL love. You can take care of yourself. And I also understand how easy it is to fall into the trap of feeling like you don’t deserve to be in a loving relationship because of your affair, but that’s just not true. Everyone makes mistakes and everyone has had poor judgment at one time or another. If you do decide to work things out with your husband, I hope it’s because you honestly believe that you will find true happiness within your marriage, otherwise, it’s not doing either of you a favor to stay together. I’m afraid whether you decide to leave or stay, either way, you’re going to have to go through some muddy times before things get better, and doing nothing may be the path of least resistance, but then you’re forever stuck right where you are now. Getting started is the hardest part!
Disregard the therapy part of my response, looks like you’re already doing that.
Lee,
By having an affair you have been EU yourself. I pity your husband if he is none the wiser. I cannot be sympathetic with people who are lamenting affairs ending or being the OW as I was cheated on in my marriage and I know how gut wrenching and soul destroying it is. There is one thing being lied to by a married man and sucked in, but it is another knowingly embarking on an affair for self interest or a way out of a dead marriage. You are now in purgatory and that may be your karma but the reality is that you were never present with either man. As for a life with an alcoholic that is a dead end as addictions past or present are red flags which Nat covers in previous posts. Continue doing what you are to build up your life but be honest about your marriage and get a divorce if that is the best thing for you.
Back again. Broke it off for good, I finally said my piece. But now I’m surprised I’m having a filet of stuck with a side of hashing sh*t out….AGAIN! And what I don’t get is why? I was the one in the driver seat this last time. After only talking on the phone for less than a week and ending it for good. Prior to that week I had not spoke to him for six months!! The six months was my choice and I told him I needed a break to get clarity (i.e. away from his confusing mind fu*kery). So after six months I was doing pretty good , great actually. Now just a couple conversations that ended with me finally telling him “you are full of horse crap” and Bam!! Obsessing. I think it’s because I’m procrastinating what really needs to happen. Me doing things that benefit me first and foremost and only action can do that. But I’m so confused it’s just a big freaking mess in my head. #hash_no-more. It’s really got me down on myself.
I used to rehash my story to the point I was boring myself. I made a conscious decision to stop. No matter how much I talked about it it wasn’t going to change the fact he’d dumped me by text and was back with his ex a week later.
Move on nine months, I’m feeling great, totally indifferent about him and out of the blue I get several crazy messages from her, apparently me and him are messaging and I’m begging him back. I haven’t laid eyes on him since the day we broke up and been no contact for over six months! I then find myself rehashing that story that she’s crazy and that their relationship is obviously doomed. I’ve since found out they’ve split up and I can’t wait to tell my girlfriends on the weekend! Even though I feel indifferent about him I still love talking about him! It also cheers me up that their relationship failed…I know, I know I’m a band person hahaha. Perhaps I should send her a link to Baggage Reclaim!