For several months after I passed my driving test last October, each time I had to drive somewhere new or that in my mind was a “scary place” (Clapham Junction, the winding country roads near me and the M25 spring to mind), I’d quietly worry about the journey and anticipate drama – in my mind, I’ve been in many crashes! Clearly, I am fine, so when the same ‘ole thought pattern started several weeks back, I halted it in its tracks, laughing to myself as previous journeys flashed through my mind. My perception of where I can drive and what I can handle, clearly needed to catch up with reality.
It reminded me that before my ego, or inner critic, or inner child, or Debbie Downer and Doubting Dick, or Penny the Pleaser or whoever else chips in their two cents and rains on my parade, I might as well give things a try and pay attention to what happens, how I feel and what I learn as opposed to whipping me up into anxiety or curtailing me.
Clearly, what I think that I can or cannot do is inaccurate. This is true for a lot of us.
We don’t spend enough time in the present and either live in the past and use it as a predictor of the future (and tend to use dodgy reasoning rather than helpful lessons and insights) or we try to anticipate what’s next (and predict doom or over-egg it).
It’s interesting that despite us often convincing ourselves that something will be impossible or very difficult, when we do it anyway or it happens, we are slow to notice and accept this. We look for the catch.
We can be so entrenched in stressing ourselves out and focused on the story of our eff-ups and so-called imperfections, that we don’t internalise our accomplishments and achievements never mind the good stuff as it’s happening.
We convince ourselves that we’re a fraud and even if we do something a thousand times, we’re carrying on as if it’s a fluke or a con and that any minute now we’re going to be found out— Imposter Syndrome.
One guy I know has been in the same company for the best part of twenty years and despite advancing to a high level, somewhere inside he’s still the student who didn’t do as well as he had hoped to. Sure, it’s possible that he got the job by fluke or, maybe they didn’t care about his grades as much as he did and does. With all of his experience as well as the numerous promotions, it’s time for him to ask himself, At what point am I going to choose to pay attention to my accomplishments and achievements instead of criticising me?
If we don’t acknowledge the inaccuracies in our self-image, which is our perception of our appearance (physical and also where we fit in in a social context) as well as our personality, capabilities and our perception of our capabilities, we close our mind to the possibilities and remain in an uncomfortable comfort zone because we keep acting as if certain things of are off limits. We’re unavailable for what we truly desire.
When we don’t acknowledge the inaccuracies in the things that we’ve convinced ourselves of that they’ll be difficult or impossible, it’s as if we only remember the pain we felt at the onset of doing it or our predictions for how we might feel in the future (based on past mistakes or experiences) or what might happen.
We treat our feelings as facts and even when the facts turn out to be different, we focus on the feelings. We also don’t notice when our feelings change, so if we started out terrified but then as we went along and took in more information and had a go at whatever it was, our feelings changed, we keep re-traumatising ourselves over feeling terrified at the start. Sometimes we focus on the challenges we experienced along the way, failing to note how we overcame these challenges, which in some respects is like going through an agonising labour, having the baby and ignoring what follows and just remembering the labour itself.
When we don’t acknowledge the inaccuracies in the superpowers that we’ve given us to Jedi Mind trick others with our people pleasing and then we continue in painful relationships and situations, we’re also focusing on the beginning. It’s why we do the whole, “It started out so great, why can’t they go back to the person they were in the beginning?” There’s a brief period of time where we were in our bubble, convinced that our activities were going to pay off and that the slot machine was going to spit out the jackpot, and rather than acknowledge what’s so off about what we’re doing to ourselves or acknowledging the reality of what happened, we keep focusing on how we thought things were and how we think things ‘should’ be. We’d rather not acknowledge the inaccuracies— instead we attempt to collect the debt created by us feeling short-changed by our imagination.
Back in the day, I thought I could turn water into wine and turn Mr Unavailables into Mr Availables or get them to fill up my void and fix all of my issues stemming from childhood so that they could make me lovable. Note that most of us find doing the self-work intimidating enough to want to dodge some or all aspects of it that it is amazing that we actually think that somebody else who has their own set of stuff going on, would actually do what we’re expecting. I used to think that I could just go around doing what I felt was pleasing stuff and that someone somewhere would go, “Gold star for Natalie. Go and get The Perfect Man TM out of the secret cabinet and wipe out her issues while you’re at it”.
Our “I can” and “I can’t” isn’t always accurate. We need to pay attention instead of blindly accepting stuff that holds us back or causes us harm.
Going through this experience of being a new driver has taught me that when we fail to acknowledge who we are and what we have done and what we can do, we hold us to excessively high standards. We then experience an incredible amount of stress due to striving for a perfection that doesn’t exist and not acknowledging progress. Each time I forgot how I’d overcome each new challenge, I was carrying on as if nothing counted until I had this magic moment where I officially became The Perfect Driver. I would then be worthy of not thinking these things. No matter what I do in life, I’m going to have doubts and sometimes I’m going to have a hell of a lot of fear.
While we can’t help what pops into our thoughts, we have a choice about how we respond.
The more we feed us with junk food thoughts that erode our self-belief, is the less that we enjoy the journey. We feel tense and it has a huge knock-on effect. There is no magic moment and no matter what ‘tests’ we do in life, we’re always having those tests put to the test. There is no cruise control. We have to internalise our progress including our accomplishments, achievements and messages from our true self because there is not going to be this magic moment where we reach perfection and finally have permission to start.
Even if we discover that we can’t do something right now, it isn’t a permanent statement of the future.
We don’t know our full potential and we definitely don’t know what our full experience is– we haven’t lived it. We will continue to surprise and stretch us if we take the time to try even when we’re scared and to notice when what we fear is not the actuality.
Your thoughts?
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OMG ! This blog was written for me. Congrats on your driver’s license. Now, promise me you want try to drive when you come to New York. LOL.
This blog helps me with a business situation that I was dealing with just before I read this lovely blog. I was sitting here (internally under selling myself). The other voice was saying you need to be stretched -do this!
You wrote:
We convince ourselves that we’re a fraud and even if we do something a thousand times, we’re carrying on as if it’s a fluke or a con and that any minute now we’re going to be found out— Imposter Syndrome
I was just selling myself to a client knowing good and well that I can do this project. I have the academic credentials, skills and years of experience to do this DREAM project. Yet I was acting like a wuss. I did two presentations and have been invited back for a third presentation. So, why am I undermining myself? I have done this for other dream clients. I have done this a thousand times and yet I am acting like I have no place at the table. Shameful.
Thank you-its balls to the wall (sorry) when I walk in to present tomorrow. Thanks -you give advice to help with my (sorry ass) romantic life and workplace too. This is just divine. I so LOVE BR. For the first time in a long time. I have a real smile on my face. The place where I come to heal my HEART has delivered some advice I need in the business place. I REALLY needed this today. Written just for MJ.
You said:
We don’t know our full potential and we definitely don’t know what our full experience is– we haven’t lived it. We will continue to surprise and stretch us if we take the time to try even when we’re scared and to notice when what we fear is not the actuality.
I swear I am close to 4,000 miles from you thinking about the exact same thing you wrote about. I open up BR and you are talking about stretching ourselves. OMG. This is what I am dealing with today. This business deal is so amazing and I was about to WUSS out. You just gave me the fuel I needed. I am pumped up.
You are simply fantastic. Thank you.
MJ
……’acting like I have no place at the table’ such a present line to recognise MJ! – hope you got to the table and owned it.
The stretching kind of explains what is happening to me right now as recently things are not as they were before. I think I’ve learned what I have needed to learn with new learning time to actually actualise my own dreams and self purpose rather than get caught up in being part of someone else fulfilling their own dreams to include relationship intentions (likened to always being the bridesmaid but never the bride or being the employee and never the employer or being the passenger and never the driver etc). Of course with one’s true fulfillment there is normal relational etiquette such as love, care, trust and respect that Nat mentions for oneself and others.
How conscious I am now of becoming a bride, employer, initiator, helmsman, navigator…as coat-tailing it has been for me in the past.
With God’s direction working through a soul such as Natalie and all here who post because of good intentions and/or want of good intentions, one cannot and will not go wrong when good advice and insights are heeded and put into practice.
Gina.
Perfect timing for this post! So brilliant. Thank you for this 🙂 so true on every level.
Like MJ, this was just what I needed to hear today.
I am continually putting myself through unnecessary anxiety, despite countless “tests” that I pass, based on magnifying my defects and minimizing my accomplishments. I can’t even absorb all the personal and professional trials I have been through, and as you say other places, I AM STILL STANDING. An insidious thing that occurs over and over is I accomplish something amazing and someone else takes credit, turns it all around, and minimizes my part. It’s like digging out a messy garden full of roots and rocks and when you have it nice, some passerby stops and says, “I’ll take it from here,” and loudly proclaims that it is HIS garden. There is always someone available to take the credit, and I have allowed this. I haven’t stood up for myself and said, “Wait a minute, this was my work, and I am going to enjoy the flowers!” Until I can heal the inner demons, the outer ones will always arrive like vultures. I am fed up with this, and taking responsibility not only means doing the WORK it means CLAIMING the work you did, and not letting anyone cheat you out of the well deserved reward. Of course this takes courage and standing for yourself. This is my real work, and probably what really scares me the most – it’s time to stop waiting and just get on with it. This is my life, the only one I know, and it’s time for me to live it, not just play Cinderella. Thanks for the boot in the butt, Nat, I needed this tonight!
When I achieve sonething I’m really proud of I treat myself to something luxury and tangible, that way every time I see it I am reminded of what i achieved and what it represents. I recently got a new job, the process was tough and I said to myself ‘if I get this job it’s because I must be good enough’. I got the job and am going to reward myself with a new handbag. It’s so important to celebrate success (to balance ruminating over failure).
Ps. I love the comment ‘gold star Natalie now take the perfect man out of the perfect man closet’
There is no cruise control.
There really really isn’t. There is a point when you realise you are flying though. You learn the new way to be, and then at some point your body remembers that as the learnt space.
I’ve done so much work in the day to day – that there’s such a difference – done the work (therapy), learnt how to communicate better, know how to set boundaries, have self belief, a heap of stuff. But having been single a long time and only intermittent dating – haven’t had the chance to put things into action there. Started dating and had another flash with what looks like being back-burnered. So for a second – had the same old love me love me drive, for a couple of days. Thank goodness for friends and a shift in perspective – that enabled me to breath and instead of chasing his approval – slow down and think about what I thought. How I perceived the situation. And there were a host of issues that rattled me that I’d clocked, but overlooked.
However. It took two days of slowing down and sitting with the anxiety and I’m still having the old feelings, but a little bit of loving kindness. A little bit of naming. And I’m back in charge.
Its not cruise control Nat, its so much better than that in the end.
Nat, before i started thank you for your blog! i hade hard depression, and get it out, through you and help. i was working at a nursery and i have responsibility issues, i was a intern and want to train my issues that they goes away. I was counter to my shadows, it functions to a degree. But then i got issues with my brain and the lights goes out proverbial, nobody see that fortunately. I applied to schools, get a place, also more institutions say yes where i can work. Then my Body says no, i got very ill. I say no to the place, but i doubt if that was the right decision. The feeling i got from the experiences was stress mixed up with fear and overtaxing. Now I don’t trust myself anymore because all (friends and family) say why do you done this? And I don’t know if my body want to say me: nope thats not what you should do, or if thats my brain that speak through my body. What’s your meaning?
Thank you
Shya
Does it feel right to you Shya?
I feel relieved (body) and the other feeling is that I give me the blame (brain), now I don’t stand on safe ground and I hate it. To get a apprenticeship is not the easiest thing in the world.
Shya just because something is hard to get doesn’t mean you should do it – decide what YOU want in reality and find a practical way to make one step towards it. Then take the next steps…etc…
One way of monitoring/working out what you truly want is to write a PRIVATE diary (put it somewhere completely safe no one is to ever see this or else!)- every day x3 pages – this will show you what you want and who you really are and also remind you of your original thoughts BEFORE anyone tries to manipulate you for good or bad reasons or steal the wind from your sails.
It only works if you are the ONLY person to see it and know this securely and give yourself time to see any results – ie try for three weeks at least and see what help it gives/doesn’t give BEFORE you give up.
I can’t tell you what to do or not do – you have to work it out for yourself and make it happen.
But if people see you succeeding at aiming for something you really want – perhaps they won’t feel they have to take charge of your life for you.
I write a diary. 🙂 It works, but i think you are in the wrong mindset. I mean, when i want to go forward, my body says nope you don’t go this way and shoot me out. It’s like my body give me my boundaries, and sometimes i’m not finish what i’m doing, also when it gives me feeling like strength, joy (it’s like its too much of that feeling). I go to a therapy but at the moment it doesn’t help, i hope it will. It’s like you are driving a car with the handbrake. But i don’t get the damn message what my body wants. Sometimes it’s really frustrating… 🙁 I want to know how i can react? Where should i go, what should i do?
Shya you are right – my mindset works for me having been through serious hell and coming out the other side – but it may not work for you – it is up to you to decide what will or won’t work and then choose to either learn from your choices or not.
Sorry I couldn’t help – hope it gets better for you.
Oona, i’m sorry if i hurting you feelings. At the Moment i’m not that grounded, the job topic triggers much in me. I only want to come to an end. Where i can normally start and go forward. The Message come in my head ;), you are not amissed the thing what you are want to say, i speak with a friend about that topic, and I think i got a way. I grateful about your help, you help me with that step! Thank you.
The paragraph beginning
“Back in the day” is me to a T right now
After 5 years, separating from Mr U 17 times, he reappears in August. Over 100 text messages telling me he loves me, has a solicitor and started divorce proceedings, has booked us a weekend away, just basically 100% sure led me to believe he was serious.
He seemed very certain that this was what he wanted etc.
Fast forward last two weeks, the texts are less frequent, and when they do appear are generally one liners, ‘yep’ ‘weather good’ etc.. I know he’s been really busy at work the last couple of days, so when yesterday the pleasantries reappeared and he seemed to be in a good mood, I decided to ask him how he was feeling and if the things he wanted to sort out were being sorted out.
Wow, I sent him a text message asking if he could fill me in and I got so much grief back, I can’t stop crying
I was basically shouted at for sending the text in the first place, as apparently I always get emotional when he’s staying 10 minutes down the road (he lives 250 miles away) and I won’t have him here whilst my daughter is here until he has regular access to his boys. Every time he separated from his ex, she blocks all communication from him and his boys until he returns back to the marital home which inevitably he does every time, hence my need want to ensure he has resolved this situation
He shouted at me for questioning him
Said if I didn’t trust him that I needed to think about it, shouted at me for crying, shouted at me and basically twisted everything I said
I said that I was sorry, and that all my intention was, was to clarify his situation to confirm if we were still heading forwards
I don’t know how I’ve ended up feeling so awful when my intention was just to have an open conversation about how things were, and what was happening and so on
I know what you’re all thinking, and trust me I can’t even speak to any of my friends right now as they’re fed up of the same pattern
I have a therapist who is brilliant who says that he is a love avoidant. When I look at the pattern, I know this and I know that there is no hope.
Given that I’m seeing a therapist, I know that I have issues I am trying to figure out- I guess I just thought that I would have figured them out by now..
She says that I have low self esteem and we’re trying to work through what she said I had was a traumatic childhood
I suppose my question is, how do I stop loving this man? He’s obviously not good for me
I’ve read Natalie’s Mr U and the no contact books
But I feel like I’m lying to myself when he’s not in my life- it feels like there is a dark hole missing, even though I try to pretend to my friends that I’m fine, I never am!
Will therapy help and eventually I have enough self worth that I just look at him and think, urgh, what was I thinking?!?!
@Lalamwah
That dark hole, sad but true, will never be filled by him, ever. In fact, the longer you hang out with, or for, him, the harder it lodges itself in you. I’m kinda in the same place, my irrational, emotional self telling me that if only he’d love me I’d be okay when I KNOW he’s part of the problem, not the solution. The hard thing is getting the ‘feeling’ to catch up with the ‘knowing’.
Someone once advised me, when tacking a problem, do the easy things first and the difficult things will take care of themselves. The ‘easy’ thing to ‘do’ in this situation is to walk and not look back, even if it feels like wading through treacle. Do nice things for yourself, look up old friends who knew you before MrAC so that you can remind yourself of who you were before you met him. Take it one day at a time, make yourself go NC, resist temptation. You have to have distance. Then you will have space for the hard part of feeling okay about yourself to be a little easier.
I’m in the middle of struggling with NC with MrU no2. It’s only after discovering BR that I realised that long time ago MrU no1 was even EU/AC. Understanding the situation this time has made it easier, and the point is that I did eventually completely get over the first MrU, even if it took a while. Knowing it’s possible to move on through NC and self-care gives me hope and determination to keep at it! NC turns them into a ghost and it’s hard to love one. In my case, two makes a pattern and now that I’ve identified a habit, I have to make sure it doesn’t happen again. My eyes are open.
Note to both you and self: you’re only letting go of something pleasurable, not valuable.
Hugs and strength!
Brilliant Larissa
Right on, Larissa! And not even very “pleasurable” at that!
What usually works like a song for me is telling these gentlemen a few such horrible things that they never come back. But then you really want to get rid of them and burn all the bridges. I know that many of you won’t agree with me but it does work.
@Mephista, OMG I remember doing that with my ex-EUM. I told him such horrible stuff (all true though) hoping he would get mad enough to go away and never return — didn’t work!
I think for me I basically decied it was okay to be in love with him – but not okay to be in a relationship with him. An alcoholic can still love booze and yet learn he/she can’t touch a drop.
@Lalamwah; so why do you put up with it? Why are you with an MM? Why are you with a person where even the basic question of whether or not you are together is not resolved but he can write 100 texts? Seems like you are both addicted to drama.
You ask whether therapy will help you get self esteem etc. No. It doesnt. Therapy is not a pill. It requires work, thinking about yourself, talking, practicing, and taking steps. Without the steps it doesnt work.
If I was an MM, and I liked sending a woman that I’ve broken up with 17 times (really?), sending her 100 texts while continually running back to my spouse, THEN if the other woman started asking ‘where are we going’ I’d get pretty mad too. I’d start shouting as I felt the entire absurdity foolishness and juvenile nature of my life, all the women with their expectations, trying to prevent me from having cake and eating it too.
His reaction is totally rational – you’re questioning the little web of drama and deception that you’re both spinning, and its making him mad. And the deception is of each other and yourselves. Its not the yelling that is a surprise, its the getting together in the first place that is a surprise. its the thinking you ‘love’ him that is a surprise. This is not love. As long as you think it is, it will be hard to get over.
Take every sentence of your post; rewrite it five ways. Crack open your current way of thinking to something different.
Love avoidant is a nice word for a++hole, fool, jerk, AC, narc, whiner etc.
‘Confirm if we were still heading forward’ – to what?
‘open conversation about what was happening’ – how many friends have you had this with? This in my mind is usually a conversation women have when they know a relationship is not going anywhere, and it allows the other person to wiggle out and reduce your expectations. If YOU dont know what is happening and if YOU dont have any power to change it (after all, you are only asking and confirming – seems like what you want is irrelevant to the entire thing because it is ASSUMEd that however he behaves, whether he is married or not, you are just sitting around and waiting for him – no wonder you have low self esteem, you have put yourself in a lower than position for so long).
Till you go NC, you will not have high self-esteem.
Even you go NC, you will second guess because for some reason you are convinced that what you feel is ‘love’ and that any amount of drama is okay.
I know this sounds harsh; just something about how passive you have made yourself makes me mad on your behalf. Look around! There are great people out there and a great life that isn’t based on drama and self-deception.
Lalamwah all I read is He, He, He – this isn’t love, its crack addiction – therapy is supposed to be about you, you, you – if it doesn’t do that for you and balance you – it isn’t working.
At the point where you decided to ask him what He was feeling – early on in your post – you sabotaged yourself – considering the poor history that you tell us at the beginning – what exactly is it you were/are feeling????
And whatever the first thing that comes to your mind? – that is the key to this problem of you being in a loveless, disrespectful relationship – with yourself – let alone anybody else.
Lalamwah,
You ask: How do I stop loving him?
Think about how he has treated you. Keep in mind that he is married and is manipulating you for his own good. You have allowed it, but you can change it now. Once you calmly sit down and think about what he has done-maybe you will start to feel differently. It sounds like you are addicted to him and his bad treatment. It is going to take time for you to repair the damage and to believe you can stand on your own two feet (without him). Are you ok with him treating you like this?
Don’t beat yourself up for what you have allowed. Accept it and be kind to yourself, but take a hard look at what you have to change. You can stop loving him because he is married and can not give you what you need. There is no future with him. He brings you grief. He is disrespecting his wife and children. So, he has no problem disrespecting you. Only you can decide to leave him alone. The yelling he is doing is his way of controlling you. He knows what you will allow him to do (he goes back and forth between you and his wife). Let him go!
The therapist says he is love avoidant-no he is married and you need to decide not to allow a married man to use you as a toy. I am sure it must hurt, but LOVE YOU more than him. It will take time but commit to moving in a new direction.
MJ
Lalamwah, it doesn’t sound like he is “in” your life at all. And yes, you will one day think back and say “Ugh, what was I thinking?” Because he is a manipulator with his words, twisting what you say (gaslighting), making your intent and his horrible reactions your fault (say, what?), and keeping you on the line for the next time he wants to jerk your chain. (Jerk is the appropriate word for him, too! lol)
You stop loving him by starting to like and love yourself first. Soon you will realize you do not even like someone who treats you like that. And after that, your heart will eventually go along with your head, and your heart will say “Yeah, I don’t like it when people treat me like dirt and throw me crumbs.” If you don’t like him (and he is not a likeable person), you will eventually stop loving him. You’re on the right path!
This gets to the heart of our sabotage – combating our fears – our set ups – after decades of trying to avoid and suppress reruns of any pain/failure and winding up right back in the center of it.
“We then experience an incredible amount of stress due to striving for a perfection that doesn’t exist and not acknowledging progress”
Exactly.
What has helped me crawl out of the perfectionist’s hole is:
– doing one thing at the time
– once I’ve set myself a goal, I go through with it, no matter what.
– embracing who I am, fully.
The first goal I set myself (2 1/2 years ago, when something finally clicked inside of me)was: competing in a 10km race and going through with it. Background to this is that in my chilhood I could never run for more than 5 minutes, and I was labeled a klutz from very early on (and I believed it, of course).
Well, 2 yrs ago I didn’t fret about how fast I would be, but I also didn’t give up, I went running 3 times a week, I kept training, slowly but steadily.
I still have it in my chest, that amazing feeling the moment I ran past the finish! line 🙂
Now running is like meditation to me, it reminds me of everything positive I’ve done lately with my life, of the fact that I really managed to free myself from “evil” (a particularly nasty specimen of EUM) and from my childhood demons, and a proof that I am good enough.
Like Natalie writes, we might not be able to do something NOW; or we might not be destined to become the fastest runner that ever was, or the best driver: who cares!!!!
I now know myself and I accept my perfectionism, I don’t waste my energy trying to get rid of it (wouldn’t it be yet another form o striving for perfection if I did?!?), yet I don’t let it dictate my actions.
I simply consider it one of the features of the game of life I am playing.
Hugs to you all. It does get better, I promise. I am in a place now (thanks to you and Natalie and likewise amazing women out there) where I had never dreamt I could be at before. xoxo
I really needed this post right now. Thank you.
Oh, I’m in a place I never thought I could get to as well – thanks to BR. Hard teachings but here I am. I confronted someone today that I have been NC with for almost 7 months after 20 months of a relationship which I knew I should never have got into, but I did, I let myself put up with deeply disrespectful behaviour, maybe some sort of trauma bond/addiction. Thought I could save him, thought he would be grateful, etc etc. OMG I spent so much time, money, emotion, energy on him. He was a classic narc if not histrionic PD person who caught me at my most vulnerable after marriage breakup, breast cancer, & mother dying all within a year (2013). Anyway, have healed considerably thanks to all writings & posts on BR. I saw him today for first time since I walked away in February after I realised he was sleeping with someone else, and I have coped. I needed a closure (not a comeback – oh no I’m never going there again). What I managed today was possible due to the reflection I have done, and the content of this blog/posts inspiring me. I started reading this site over a year ago when I was in the middle of my nightmare. It gave me the strength to understand my part in it all, and to take responsibility for my actions and choices. It was not easy to go NC, but reading other peoples thoughts and dilemmas here, kept me going. When you are in a better place it is sometimes easy to forget the self-deception and the desperation that keeps us in situations that are completely wrong for us. My diary entries remind me of the craziness. But we learn from it. My horrible nightmare toughened me up, brought me to BR, and has pushed me to put myself first – because I do realise that if I care for myself first, and get my needs met, then I am able to care for others.
Great – done & dusted!
Done and dusted, geez you learn quick!
The man who brought me here had a harem of vulnerable women and would gravitate towards them in times of difficulty and crisis, be so empathetic and implant himself right in their inner circle, whether involving himself with their parents, being at their bedside in the hospital or whatever, then suddenly ditch them once he got their devotion and dependence, and come back some other time, might be weeks or years. What a trail of devastation to leave behind with these women who were supposedly too needy. Years of this cycle with him and living with him left me a complete mess, seeing him as the rescuer who would learn to appreciate me and commit. When I quit him for good, it was realising I’d be perfectly fine consigned to his dustbin of mad, needy women who I thought I was better than, and I knew that they were now better off and wiser than me. In the meantime, I wasn’t recognising how incredible were the few friends who put up with all my self delusion and the kind of egotism you have in these unhealthy relationships (expecting to be the exception etc.) and who gently steered me towards the truth, but this would have been impossible without BR. I wonder if your ex has similar drives and MO.
It sounds like you have a solid foundation to learn so quickly. After such a terrible year, for which I’m sorry, what happened to you could have happened to anyone, but now you’ll spot them from a mile away.
happy b – ditto. Thank you for holding up the mirror, nothing is more sobering. Perfect tonic for keeping on the wagon.
Thanks Natalie, all of your recent posts feel as though they have been written for me personally. It helped me become more conscious, as in figure out who AM I in this relationship. What would I like to be in a relationship? Not sure why but I have always had a low self esteem within (despite my outward achievements) since a very young age and unknowingly accepted a lot of disrespect from people.
For me recognizing that was the tough thing. I thought clearing out the baggage from past relationships would help me move on, but then I was missing out on a crucial step of doing a lot of self care activities for myself. After all I wasn’t hurting, but it brought home to me how important it is to make that a default part of a New Me. I need to show that I love me on a regular basis. It is not a one-time Aha moment and staying passive. This theme may be first evident to me based on my dating experiences, but in truth was also reflected in so many others areas in my life. The weird part was that the moment I owned up for myself, others automatically adjusted…as simple as that. Who knew?
Thanks to coming in here, prioritizing me and my needs are getting easier. I only wanted to post in response to this particular one on “can” and “can’t” , after I faced up to it for myself in my professional career. Am noticing I sound more confident and less ‘sure I can hop around anytime to help you out’ type of response.
Somehow there has been other limiting beliefs hindering me, that became more explicit to me. Was so scared of owning my power wondering if I would become that independent woman living alone with cats all her life or whether me doing well in life meant that I will become a horrible person within. And then I read that women are conditioned socially to be ‘less than’ and the ones who do well have to constantly fight against this implicit discrimination against them. Anyway long story short, it helped me to push past my fears and start taking on an ambitious project that I felt called on to take, even though I was procrastinating on doing so for quite some time. To learn how to self-soothe and still keep on–thanks for that.
It made me realize how I was postponing a couple of nice things I liked to do, thinking I would do it only with a special someone in my life. I make the effort to dress up, even if I am going on my own to the grocery. have started jogging in earlier mornings, instead of thinking it would be more fun to do this as a couple (crazy, yes I know :-)). Giving myself permission to explore new places just because. Am adding a lot more friendships to my life and slowly building my esteem one step at a time.
Hello,
I’m having a hard time, need some advice. Went to meet a guy in another country, liked him, he’s sweet, emotionally available, but financially limited (much of his resources also going to daughter in boarding school) and says he can’t afford to go traveling with me to places I’d like to go and i just can’t see a secure future with him. He is loving and sweet and kind and seems to understand me but I just have a hard time seeing a sound future and we are in middle age. So now he’s bought a ticket to come see me (even though before he said he couldn’t afford it) and I’m very nervous. I like everything about him, except his financial situation. What to do??
Whatever – if you have the prospect of a relationship based on shared values, love, mutual respect etc. (which to me feels less obtainable than the holy grail!), couldn’t you go travelling on your own or with friends or other groups? It seems that he can afford to travel, but that it’s not his priority. I can think of 2 strong couples where there is one with wanderlust and the other a homebody, out of their desires or what they’d rather spend their money on, and they can work with it. I feel that we should go into relationships with some financial independence, on both sides of course, especially from 30s onwards. Unless I’m wrong, I don’t think he’s expecting your financial support.
Even more importantly, you’ve only met him once. I don’t know how long you spent with him, but if there is a practical possibility to live together, everything else needs to unfold and go one step at a time. I suspect there is more to it, that you have other doubts and anxieties that are playing out in this way. Maybe he’s not as successful as you’d hope, maybe he ticks all the boxes but you just don’t feel it?
happy b
I like him a lot so far, spent 10 days with him. He did tell me that he had a couple of affairs in a couple of relationships, one was his marriage, but hasn’t happened since (14 years ago). I haven’t got the full details yet, kind came out on the last days. Funny thing is I didn’t even ask if he ever had an affair, because he just didn’t come across as a guy who would ever do that, so when I asked why did you tell me, he said I asked.
The main thing is that one of us would have to move and we have different interests and the financial thing is big too. In terms of love, shared values, connection, openness, physical attraction, chemistry, it all seems to be there so far. I had a conversation with him yesterday telling him all my fears, and he was listening and understanding, but still wanted to visit me to see me again. It certainly is too soon to know, but I hate investing if I see roadblocks in the future.
Whatever, I do wonder if this is a gut feeling that you have, it seems so. How he responds in conversations doesn’t tell you much, only actions over time can. Maybe I’m analysing too much, but I felt that you calling him sweet twice in the first post came from an effort to rationalise and that something was off.
I was thinking before that having a daughter and other responsibilities would make travelling a luxury few can afford, even if they’re good with finances and well off. It’s something many only do either when very young or in retirement. But maybe there are other financial issues. The distance is very hard too, it brings a lot of pressure.
If something doesn’t feel right, we want to know that we’re being reasonable and not just being ruled by our own doubts. I came to here for that kind of reassurance and it’s understandable that you are. Whatever you do from here, trust your gut and take action if you feel uncomfortable with it.
“I like him a lot so far, spent 10 days with him. He did tell me that he had a couple of affairs in a couple of relationships, one was his marriage, but hasn’t happened since (14 years ago). I haven’t got the full details yet, kind came out on the last days. Funny thing is I didn’t even ask if he ever had an affair, because he just didn’t come across as a guy who would ever do that, so when I asked why did you tell me, he said I asked.”
^how we get into trouble^ right here, is by mistakenly assigning good qualities to a person before knowing the truth. Hope all is going well, but please be careful. Your comment has been on my mind.
Say something
I hear what U are saying. I am talking to him everyday, he seems to be honest so far in telling me things, he is coming to visit me in November. He said he is exclusive with me even though we haven’t had sex yet. So this is all I can by, getting to know him. Will ask him more. I’m thinking that’s all I can do for now.
Happy B
Thank you for your nice words. I opened up something new with him in our conversation last night. I noticed how defensive I am most times with men and I seemed to recognize that and drop into my heart with him. It was a very nice experience and I see how much I can learn from this man, he lives in his heart more than I do and it’s something I want to do more of and be present to what is in a relationship in the moment rather than worry about the future.
That’s always been a tough one for me in every relationship, so I have an opportunity to do things differently and it’s scary (in a good way) because it means I have to trust my heart and my life’s path….a place I have never gone in a relationship.
Whatever- it’s valid to think about the future, and to keep your eyes open. There is no right way to feel, and he can’t tell you what that should be or how to do things. I hope you keep on trusting your gut first and that it all works out.
happy b
I hear you, there might be a bit of that happening, I do want to be less high strung with men, I do like him…and my mind won’t let me not think about the future. I seem to mention what I don’t like in every conversation, so if that continues it may not work in the long run. I wish I felt I had a green light, I seem to emotionally, but not for long term and that sucks. I’ve been at this my whole life, just wonder when it will all come together…
Whatever-
My concern here is that your uncertainty with him is being minimised by him, maybe by you, as ‘defensiveness’, ‘not following your heart’ being ‘highly strung’, etc. You can’t talk your way into feeling secure, and he is not the person to do that. It’s easy to set it up as him using his heart, being kind and nice and patient, while you’re being complicated and defensive, and to turn that into an issue with you, but it doesn’t ring true.
The instinct I get, and my experience with a long-distance relationship, is that you are becoming not only unsure of the relationship, but also less sure of yourself, and it leaves you vulnerable. I think your problem is not that you’re being too closed, but that it’s not the right relationship for you and that you’re not in the position to have one right now. I hope that doesn’t sound harsh, but this is reason to be hopeful, not to feel bad. If you go into relationships loving and caring for yourself and taking all doubts as legitimate rather than something to berate yourself about, it will happen. Whichever patterns you’ve had in the past, you can rewrite your future if you love, care for and trust yourself. No man can do that for you, especially one that you have so little experience of.
happy b
Interesting perspective. He keeps telling me to feel how I feel in the moment instead of being in my head worrying about the future, so that we can enjoy this relationship, however long it lasts. In the moment, I enjoy talking to him. I have been told by all the men I have gone out with that I get anxious and speak too loudly and can be high strung. Part of that is me, part of it is learned behavior from my mom. This man is accepting of me and wanting to help me, so I feel I am learning and I DO want to change that behavior in me. At the end he knows we will have to decide if there is a future, but it might be too soon to tell. I am so good at letting men go, I have never had a long term relationship (past a year) so I do have issues to work on and work out and doing it in relationship is where the rubber meets the road. But, my gut is on and observing as there are some things I don’t like and need to feel out a lot more.
not to mention it is long distance…my gut is saying it probably won;t work in the long run, but that there is plenty of learning for me in the short run. Sure, I wish I had everything I want in a guy, and I have to see how much of that is the truth for me. I get really focused on a man’s financial situation in the past, I have been blinded by that, if he was financially sound and relatively nice looking and kind of decent, I would try to mold him into what I wanted, which never worked as they were mostly EU. This man doesn’t have a great financial situation, so I will not get blinded by that and he seems to be emotionally available, new for me. That’s all I feel right now. Am I scared, yes. Am I learning, yes. Is there a future, I don’t know.
Whatever – long distance is a kind of unavailability in itself. I just hope you can trust yourself better and keep doing the BR work on self esteem. I worry that if you share all these self-doubts so early in the relationship, they could be used against you. What does helping you mean? It sounds like an imbalance between you, but pleased to hear you’re following your gut too.
Happy b
So you’re thinking that maybe he is being the counsellor with me and I am the project? could very well be. Speaking of self doubts do you mean doubting myself or the relationship. Both have been in pretty much all relationships. Thanks for your words of wisdom.
Yes I mean doubting yourself. I think after spending 10 days together, he should not be helping you to ‘improve’. I can see a scenario where you feel uncomfortable with the relationship and he says, ‘remember what you told me about the past, you just need to open up your heart, remember what a great thing we have’ and so on, making you doubt your own feelings. You’ve mentioned a few times what you did wrong in past relationships, and that’s what makes me question whether you have the trust in yourself to stand on your own feet and know what your needs are, rather than have someone else tell you what you need.
Thank you for listening, I say it as someone who doesn’t have much (er.. any?) experience of healthy relationships, but I don’t believe we can succeed if we’re not our own best friend and compassionate parent, first and foremost.
Happy b
Eventually I come to my senses, but as a dear friend said to me yesterday, the heart has needs and we do talk well together and I feel like I have a friend in him. I do feel that he is filling a need. He is not saying he knows where this will go. So far I see how I behave in relationships. I am getting to see how I have the same story over and over and how my mind takes over. I have never trusted anything in relationships and I have lost good opportunities and it is my problem, I need to practice trusting myself and what better place than in a relationship.
The financial issue is bothering me. I realize that I can’t date a guy who isn’t financially at least doing ok, because I tend to worry about money then and wonder if I will need to pay for them in the future if they get sick or lose their job. I won’t do it, financially security seems to be on the top of my priorities, but heart is up there too and this man has heart. It is so confusing and I hate it. He’s coming to visit me and I feel torn, do I end it now, or do I give it a chance for a while and I like him as a person. Seems I go through this kind of thing with all relationship, if they have the heart, they don’t have financially security, if they have financial security, some thing is missing in other key areas like not having heart, or there isn’t enough of a personality click. It’s exhausting and I feel like I always end up alone. I hate it!!!!
@Whatever,
How do you define financial security? Start there.
He has a job?
It’s only part-time?
He’s uneducated?
He’s educated but unemployed? Educated but lazy?
He’s a slacker?
He has a career?
He’s paying child support to multiple women?
No retirement account or not enough?
He makes six figures?
He makes minimum wage?
Owns his own home?
Lives above his means?
Credit card debt?
Declared bankruptcy?
What is your measuring stick? Are you being REASONABLE or is your perception off?
I was once in contact with a guy who took a customer service type job and was renting a room. Couldn’t do it. In his 40’s and in an entry level position. Ohhh… Plus he’d been married 4 times… Twice to the same woman. Had to flush.
So what, exactly do you mean when you speak of financial issues?