In part one, I explained why we need to connect with what we truly want and learn to articulate it and stop putting off being happy. Happiness seems to be something we think will come along in the distant future and in the meantime you’ve got to live a life in pain. In fact, more often than not, happiness is something that we seem to be reliant on external factors to provide, and yet we fail to recognise that misery lives company, so if we are not remotely happy within ourselves, we will struggle to find happiness elsewhere. Why?
We may not believe we deserve to be happy and so we will distrust when the good times do come and can end up inadvertently sabotaging it.
If we carry around self-hate, we end surrounding ourselves with people that reflect the negativity and feed back into the mentality, reinforcing the self-fulfilling prophecy.
There is also the harsh reality that when we go looking for love and happiness whilst carrying our own negativity, we end up looking for love in all the wrong places.
People who don’t like and love themselves have behaviour and ‘vibes’ that mirror these things and people like assclowns and Mr Unavailables are drawn to you because they are more likely to get away with their poor behaviour with you because of your insecurity.
I had to do a total 360 a few years back. I had believed I was happy, was having an extended case of bad luck with men, and that in essence, much of it was out of my hands. But when I started to get real with myself, I realised that I was coasting on pretending.
I was in relationships that were largely built up on illusions, there was more drama than you could shake a stick at, and I habitually pretended to be happier than I felt.
I didn’t wake up each day and think ‘I will pretend I am happy today’, however, I had got so used to not expressing how I truly felt and burying my unhappiness, plus I had become an expert at accepting poor relationship behaviour that devalued me, that the pretending had become my pseudo reality.
I’m not saying there weren’t good times, but I walked around with a grey cloud and secret unhappiness and dislike for a long time. I cried when other people didn’t know about it and I brushed off pain and compartmentalised it for a later date, when I believed that it may not hurt so much to look at.
The trouble is that when you don’t like or love yourself, and spend a lot of your life pretending, caught up in denial, and living relationships that are built up on little or no foundations because you prefer illusions, you will become very distanced from the reality of you.
If you imagine the layers of pretence, hurt, pain, and experience, it’s all just been piled on, and there’s little old you trapped inside.
You become disconnected from you and in turn, you don’t know who you are, you don’t know what makes you happy, and often when I talk to women, in spending their lives chasing and pandering to assclowns and Mr Unavailables and the negative messaging about themselves, they no longer know what their aspirations, goals, desires, or interests are.
Often we sack off friends, family, passions, and interests because we’re too busy firefighting our relationships.
The guy becomes our goal, aspiration, passion, interest, and in essence our life.
We believe that if we canjustget them to see how great we are, how much we love them, and how right the relationship could be if they just did X,Y, Z and accepted and validated us, then shazam, we’d be happy.
If the guy is your focal point and you allow him to unvalidate you, rely on him to eventually validate you, and the sun basically rises and sets on him, he not only has too much power, but your happiness is heavily reliant on him which means that when he’s not around, he takes your hope of happiness with him.
The guy who is the source of your misery can also end up appearing to be the source of your happiness and so you’ll go back for more…and end up with more misery with some fleeting highs.
One day, and I hope it will be very soon rather than later, you will realise that whilst there is nothing wrong with wanting to be happy with a partner in a relationship, you will not get this until you address your own personal happiness. If you can’t recognise a good thing in you, how do you expect someone else to recognise it, and how will you recognise good love and embrace it?
You’ve got to be in it to win it.
No-one’s asking you to skip around like a happy clapper or become a narcissist, but if you’re finding it so hard to find a way to start liking you, you need to connect the dots and recognise that it is no wonder that you are not happy.
Take what you don’t want and instead of focusing on that and doing nothing with the information, process it, and translate that into what youdowant.
The reader, Loving Annie, that inspired the beginning of part one said “I don’t want to hurt anymore” and she realised that continuing to pursue the guy and certain behaviours would only serve to hurt her. If she didn’t want to hurt, she had to opt out even though it was painful at first.
Funny enough, we fear the pain of taking action but we don’t realise that the initial pain of doing right by yourself is far less than what it would be to indulge in the relationship insanity – doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results.
I said I wanted to be happy but it was just words, and not only do actions speak louder than words, but talk can be cheap. How are you going to make yourself happy?
Don’t just say “I want to be happy” – Say “I want to be happy by being and doing [insert your stuff here]”
This makes it real and tangible.
I decided that I didn’t want to pretend anymore. That I would acknowledge how I felt whether that was about myself, another person, or something because my feelings were valid and the pretence was literally eating me up.
I recognised that if I wasn’t going to pretend anymore, I had to open up my eyes to the stuff that I was allowing to go unaddressed in my relationships whether it was with men, family, friends, or co-workers.
When I started to give voice to my true self and forced myself to stop pretending, I empowered myself because when I started to speak up, I was like “HELL YEAH! I am p*ssed off with you and I’m not going to make excuses for it, and I’m not going to internalise your crap and make it my own”
It was freeing. I knew I could be happy because I could make me happy instead of spending my time making myself miserable with external sources.
If you learn how to be happy with yourself, you will recognise the massive contrast of being around someone who is a source of negativity and will only serve to detract from you because they don’t love, trust, care about, or respect you.
If you experience something that makes you happy, do more of it.
And here’s a big thought:
If he’s notactuallymaking you happy and the relationship is making you miserable now, and has been on a consistent basis, he and the relationship are not what’s going to make you happy.
You can’t ignore your present state and the past, plus ignore the consistencies by focusing on a future that may never materialise.
You need to get happy now and start focusing on how to be happy on a consistent basis. Here are just a few suggestions with more to follow in part three:
Stop worrying about what the hell he (or anyone else for that matter) wants and start considering your own needs. Just like when we project what we think, feel, and want onto partners, you must recognise yourself as an entity and acknowledge your needs. His needs are not your needs, and his needs are not the be all and end all.
Set boundaries.Boundaries are the backbone of a happier you and better relationships. Grow a backbone, set some boundaries and enforce them and you will discover that having boundaries and conditions makes for a happier you, because you teach people how to treat you and respect you, which in turn yields happier times. Those that don’t want to play by the rules, tell them to beat it. People with low self-esteem who have poor relationships, have little or no boundaries. Get some!
Say no. Partly tied to boundaries but it’s also a reminder to you to stop being a yes person and fearing what people will say or do if you don’t say yes all the time. No is not a dirty word and the fact of the matter is that saying yes all the time doesn’t get you anywhere but taken advantage of. Often people in poor relationships who are looking for love in all the wrong places keep giving because they not only don’t feel worthy or deserving, but they also hope that the love and giving will be reciprocated and they’ll be validated.
Find something that interests you other than getting hooked up with a man and fixing and maintaining a relationship. There has to be more to you than pursuing men – it’s bloody exhausting and you need a balance of interests that continue with or without a man and give you a life.
Reconnect with family and friends. Chasing bad love can isolate you, often because you end up isolating yourself because no-one understands what you’re doing or you’re too embarrassed to admit that you’re back with the guy. Isolation will only make you cling harder to a bad relationship so put your pride aside and let people who actually do love and care about you back into your life.
Write down your interests and goals. If you don’t have any goals other than a relationship, you’d better make some fast. Do a list of short term (under 6 months) medium term (6-18 months) and long term so that you can get a sense of what you want. Yes include a relationship but put other stuff on there too. It gives you focus.
Forgive yourself. It’s damn easy to feel unhappy and under a cloud when you’re kicking yourself constantly and having an internal conversation where you blame yourself and obsess over the relationship, the guy, your exes and anything else you feel like blaming yourself for. The reason why you haven’t forgiven yourself is because you are obsessing, which is about blame, which is about sticking with the illusion and the denial, which is about refusal to accept the situation.
You’re in pain because you keep fighting it and if you can accept what has happened, you can actually do something about it, which will make you pro-active but will also give you the opportunity to find peace with what has happened so that you can move on. If you don’t accept what has happened you cannot learn and grow from the experience and your mistakes because you’re still disconnected from the reality.
The trouble with illusions is that we can cling to them but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s not real and on some level you know this, which only adds to your unhappiness.
Let go. You will get a lot closer to what you want if you stop holding on to what will only serve to be an obstacle to your happiness because it can’t actually make you happy.
Your thoughts? Back with more suggestions in part 3.
All I know is that this takes time and effort and willingness and time and effort and more willingness and then your mind set shifts and your behaviors shift, and gradually with yet more time and effort that doesn’t feel like effort anymore, you HAVE boundaries, you have more happiness than you have hurt, and you have the self-respect and self-esteem and self-confidence that were just words before – and now nobody can take that/them knowing away from you.
Time and effort and really looking for the answers and doing the things that support you compred to doing the things that don’t and then beating yourself up for them but not changing them.
When a man doesn’t make you happy, it’s because you are still more comfortable being UNHAPPY, and so he’s your perfect mirror.
It isn’t about him – he’s just a learning tool. It’s about you and what you are willing to do to BE happy.
Do your inner work.
Face the illusions and habit patterns that have kept you stuck.
Do your inner work…
I had years of pain based on incorrect assumptions and reading too many fairy tales when I was young and believing them. I hated me and kept reinforcing it by picking men who didn’t love me or continue to love me and I wouldn’t let go of the “but” daydream.
Now life is safe and protected and good. I LIKE ME. If I can do it, anybody can. You can. YOU CAN.
Loving Annie’s last blog post..Questions And Answers
annied
on 08/07/2009 at 5:02 pm
I made the EUM in my life my goal – to make him (just like you said) love me and appreciate me and change.
It’s taken a long time to get here and it’s taken it’s toll on me. I honestly dont know who I am anymore. An example is that after 2 solid weeks of NC after what I felt was finally the end, I am laying in bed and think this … “I am a mother! I have children!” I swear, it was like I’d forgotten.
I’m putting myself back together again and am trying to learn to love myself because I finally see that is the only way I will feel happiness. I now trust myself enough to know that I have made the right decision and have cut this toxic man out of my life forever.
I wish Peace and Happiness for all of us here.
ChiTownKitty
on 08/07/2009 at 5:34 pm
I feel like I am caught in a nowhere land right now…I have long term goals for my life and education but its the short term ones that evade me…after a while home repairs, reading, journaling and the like just don’t seem to well, fill the time I used to fill with my EUM…I have a job I love, teenagers at home, but well, just don’t know what to do now….and during that “empty time” is when I am thinking about him…what could have been…and all that nonsense…
I would love some suggestions!
Thanks!
TJ
on 08/07/2009 at 6:10 pm
Interesting…I was on my happy track, doing my thing, feeling good…then I met the AC. I think it’s possible I let him derail me for a time, because I know that during the time he was in my life, I felt a “false happy”. The sense of contentment I previously felt was replaced with a weird kind of anxiety that initially felt exciting but later began to drag me down.
Though I was very distraught our “friendship” ended, I have to say it’s been a relief. I got back into my work in a HUGE way and am pulling off an amazing project. I think my outward indifference to AC and my upcoming success has made the AC angry: the confident, pretty, successful, loving woman HE REJECTED has no use for him now!
“People who don’t like and love themselves have behaviour and ‘vibes’ that mirror these things and people like assclowns and Mr Unavailable’s are drawn to you because they are more likely to get away with their poor behaviour with you because of your insecurity.”
Yes, he seemed weirdly PLEASED with his bad behavior– as though he was “winning” by acting like a jerk. “I can be a jerk and you still like me, therefore you’re not so hot”
Best advice: Find something that interests you. When I got involved in a big project, I literally had no time to dwell on the AC. I think the project “saved me”.. it enabled me to succeed after feeling like I had “failed” with him
notmeanttobe
on 08/07/2009 at 6:11 pm
This is my first time posting here, although I have been reading for a few weeks now, and have found this site a God-send. I have been involved with what I now realize is a married AC for a little over a year. I can relate to much of what you have written here NML. I have made a satisfying relationship with this EUM a goal, and in doing so have isolated myself from friends and family as none of them know I am involved with him and this “illusion†of a relationship. I spend a lot of time checking for emails from him, and seeing if he goes online so I can IM him. I think I am in denial about what I really need to be happy, and have been content to receive the crumbs he throws me, even though I am frustrated as I would like more than these “fleeting highs†as NML calls them. I do realize that we are going outside of the norms of society in having an illicit “relationship†and I take full responsibility for that and I’m ashamed and embarrassed by it.
As a bit of a background, I have known him for 2 years. We are both in our 40’s, are in the same line of work, and see each other at conferences (which we both help to plan and facilitate) 3 times per year. He also works directly with a family member of mine, in a supervisory position. Our relationship became physical a little over a year ago at one of the conferences. We don’t live in the same city, so we also meet sometimes in a town half way between us. The first 3 months or so, he was very attentive through email and IMing (at least as attentive as he could be since he’s married) but then the communication started to drop off as he says he’s “busy, busy, busy†at work. He does say he has strong feelings for me, but doesn’t often say much more than that as he “has trouble expressing his feelings, except in a physical way†to quote him. He lost a parent at a young age, and seems to still feel affected by this, and says he is “fragile†and does not like ending relationships.
To move along here, I have tried to break things off with him twice before – once last September and again in December, but I agreed to stay “friends†both times (as I couldn’t bear not to have him in my life – too many tears), and we ended back being physical. By the way, he is very skilled and giving in that department. After reading several posts on this site, I have decided to end things with him once and for all. I am going to call him tomorrow, and I intend to tell him this isn’t working for me anymore and I want to end things with him. I do think he may try to ask for friendship again, and I want to say no this time, but I am worried about the implications for my family member who works with him – I would hate it to affect that job. I know I will be happier without having to constantly wait for crumbs, or to ask him in vain what I mean to him (besides physically). To prepare for the NC afterwards, I have written out a list of things he has done to hurt/disappoint me (over 30 of them), and have some vacation activities planned with friends from work next week. Any advice on how to move on from this situation so I reclaim my own needs and happiness would be much appreciated. Thanks much.
PlanetJane
on 08/07/2009 at 6:14 pm
NML wrote, “I decided that I didn’t want to pretend anymore. That I would acknowledge how I felt whether that was about myself, another person, or something because my feelings were valid and the pretence was literally eating me up.”
One of the things that keeps me in NC is that I just can’t be real with my eum, but I just can’t keep my feelings contained anymore. He just isn’t someone I trust sharing my feelings with. He will either belittle me, and relegate me to the psycho-b*tch category of the women in his past who were actually honest with him before they told him to beat-it, or he’ll feign empathy and remorse and lie to me to try and get me back on his side and in his bed. There is really no other place for me in his life. My own place is out of his life!
and
“Stop worrying about what the hell he (or anyone else for that matter) wants and start considering your own needs.”
Thank you for that! I so need it. I feel so much like I OWE him my “friendship” and it’s kept me in his web for far too long. He’s always going on and on about how my friendship is SO important to him, and always laying on the guilt. I’m 2 weeks NC and everyday I wonder if maybe the decent thing to do would be to call him back and try and have an adult, friendly conversation. I feel like I’ve destroyed the friendship because I want…because I want more from him, and that’s not his fault, poor guy, it’s mine. He always seems to be losing female friends, and he just can’t understand why.
It hurts a lot, but I will stick it out this time.
Thanks NML for your post. Such great information. I will keep it under my pillow 🙂
De
on 08/07/2009 at 6:49 pm
Great great post 🙂
Notmeantobe…A way to do this would be for you to tell hom gently that you need six months of no contact so you can gt your life back on track, then you will see how you feel as to whether it feels right to contact him and maybe begin a friendshop (tht sometimes is not enought time but i’t a beginning 🙂 It will mean absolutely no contact on eeither side if he cares about you and your happiness he should take his and allow you to grieve and move on. Strength to you, it’s gonna be tough but honest it is sooo worth it, you are worth it. The longer you put this momnet off the longer your pain and turmnoil will be with you.
peace
Deb
De
on 08/07/2009 at 6:50 pm
Sorry spelling all over the place, was rushing and didn’t read before posting 🙂
Melissa
on 08/07/2009 at 7:31 pm
This writer has amazing insights into relationships
Lou
on 08/07/2009 at 7:53 pm
This site has helped me a great deal and really opened my eyes concerning my behaviours in my relationship. i have very recently left a bad yo-yo relationship. reading these articles have been very helpful and helped me to stay focussed. I know that i need to learn to love myself and find happiness within myself instead of chasing the emotionally unavilable man. thank you
Rachel
on 08/07/2009 at 8:26 pm
The light bulb turned on with NML’s last post…. What do you truly want?
I did a great deal of searching for that answer since then which led me to my own unresolved relationship with my father. I realized I chase bad love because I chased love from my own Dad who never really seemed to care to know me deeply. I came to the conclusion that I had a mediocre Dad and that if, as a kid, I would have had a choice to trade him in I would have. I would have traded my dad for a loving, affectionate, caring, interested, consistant, smart, funny, playful Dad. Thats what I wanted. As an adult I accept my dad for the shallow person that he is. I now realize he did not have the capacity to love.
This led me to the assclown that I have been chasing for the same bad love, a real mediocre relationship. I finally realize that I have fallen in that same familiar trance I was in as a kid. I now realize that my assclown is just a shallow person who does not have the capacity to love. He was familiar to me, it felt like “home” at some point to have that life long albiet, painful relationship again. I realize I have the option to trade him for what I want a loving, affectionate, caring, interested, consistant, smart, funny, playful boyfriend and not live or miss a mediocre relationship. This time I am free to opt out or trade in. I am much more in tune to what I want and I no longer miss what I had. THANK YOU!
Anusha
on 08/07/2009 at 8:48 pm
I dont want to be in the relationship insanity but even knowing that my ex isnt good for me I still fell that yearning for him.My rational side knows that I cant come back,I waited for him to change for 5 years and he didnt.So coming back would be just doing the same thing over again and expecting a diferent result but why even knowing all that I still fell that yearning? Lately had got worse and sometimes is so strong that I have to do a huge effort to resist,a few days ago I just realy felt like texting him saying I love him or that I miss him.Even though Im on NC with him for 10 weeks I fell Im still emotionaly conected with him trought that yearning.I think maybe the reason is strong lately can be because I miss being in a relationship and having a bf so I tried dating but it didnt work much well.I cant find a guy that is nice and when I did find one I wasnt much atracted to him.Is like either the guy is atractive or he is nice,I couldnt find one that is both.And yes I know the post says that I shouldnt make geting a man the principal focus of my life but I just realy wanted to have a good relationship.I have been trough bad ones after bad ones so I realy wanted one where I can be happy this time.
metsgirl
on 08/07/2009 at 8:59 pm
OMG what an amazing article. I avoided my feelings like the friggin’ plague and every single one that I avoided was just piled up (like you said). I don’t care to feel rejected but I’m certainly not “afraid” to feel rejected anymore. I feel it, deal with it and move on….
I spent a little time lately reverting back to old thought patterns because I ran into my ex-AC and discovered a new AC all in the same week. Lol The new guy was nice enough the first time we met but then he wanted to hook-up and rent a movie at his place for the 2nd date. I told him I wasn’t comfortable with that and perhaps we could spend time doing something else….he said “I’ll pass” and we said very short good-byes. My first reaction was to beat myself up for not recognizing he was a jerk in the first place but then realized….d*mn, I did pretty good setting the record straight early on =). The feeling of rejection was the real kicker though. I had to work hard to put myself back in place…and yes I cried it out for at least a day….but realized I wasn’t going to die from the pain. I would much rather feel the pain now and process it while it’s fresh instead of lying to myself about how I feel. Thanks NML for the amazing insight.
I just wanted to share my struggles with the ladies on this site. You keep me strong. Hugs to all!
pinky
on 08/07/2009 at 10:39 pm
hey well done metsgirl for realising what potential idiot that guy was. I have been in lots of similar situations and this website reallly helps to keep me strong. About a year ago my standards in men appeared to be limbo dancing under my bedroom door. I decided I couldn’t trust myself so thought I would pull back a bit. Since then, I have not chased men, but a few have given me their numbers. Out of all of these not one man has responded to my call. The old me would have texted and persisted but now I just delete the number and forget about them.
I have met a few men socially. One of them asked me out, then at the end of the night told me he had a girlfriend. My female friends were horrified when I just smiled and walked away from him. ‘ But he might have been breaking up with her’ So what? I dont want a man like that in my life. Its been hard this year- my best friend had a baby, my little sister got married, I’m the only single person my age out of all my friends. Sometimes it seems like society and well meaning friends would rather see me in a bad relationship than single. And I do fear that I will always be alone.
What keeps me going is this time last year- involved with two men neither who gave a crap about me. Yeh my friends and family were off my back and I had somebody on my arm, but deep down I felt a lot worse then than I do now. So dont give up, people. Enjoy the fact you can eat toast in bed and not shave your legs for six weeks!
Hot Alpha Female
on 09/07/2009 at 1:11 am
I think an important note with feelings and getting to that happy state is to accept how you feel now and know that it is ok.
Most of the time we create more unhappiness in our lives because we think “I shouldn’t be feeling this way” and this spirals into a more depressive mode.
Acknowledging how you feel like ” hmmm I don’t feel that great today … and that’s ok” will allow you to deal with your emotions better.
Then you can start asking better quality questions like “what would need to happen in order for me to feel happy” or “what could I possibly be happy about today”.
When you ask better quality questions, you get better quality answers.
Hot Alpha Female
Hot Alpha Female’s last blog post..I Really Like Him – Now What?!
notmeanttobe
on 09/07/2009 at 1:38 am
@De (or is it Deb?)
Thank you for your response. You are right, I have been living with pain and turmoil, and like Loving Annie said “I don’t want to hurt any moreâ€. I will try asking for the 6 month NC before considering being friends, if he does indeed ask to remain friends this time after I “break up†with him tomorrow over the phone. I will have to see him and work with him at a conference next month though, so that will be a challenge.
I feel badly because I had an IM chat with him a little while ago. He invited me out tonight – his wife is out for the evening apparently. I said I would love to go but had to decline, as I had other plans, so maybe another time. I feel badly making it seem that nothing is wrong, when tomorrow I plan to end it with him. I hope I have the strength to go through with this. He really is very sweet sometimes, and I know it will be difficult. I have to remember he doesn’t belong to me, he is EU since he is a MM, and being in a relationship with him cannot make me happy and could bring others a lot of pain.
@Rachel,
“I realized I chase bad love because I chased love from my own Dad who never really seemed to care to know me deeply.†and “it felt like “home†at some point to have that lifelong albeit, painful relationship again†– I can fully relate to these comments and feel it is part of the attraction to the MM for me.
Thank you everyone for sharing your stories here. I know this is going to be tough, but so many of you have been where I am now, and you have taken steps to let go of these dysfunctional relationships with EUM’s/AC’s/MM, and so you give me hope. Best of luck to all in your pursuit of true happiness!
I have just read a book that is a very good source for emotional healing and moving on: ‘Inner Abundance’ by Sarah Ban Breathnach.
I thought this book in line with the topic of this thread.
Ella
Butterfly
on 09/07/2009 at 5:47 am
Ah NML, you’re great. This couldn’t be timed better for me personally, as it’s exactly where I am at.
Last night I was minding my own business when a friend – definitely one who’s drama on a stick – sent me a message along with a picture of his torso and expected me to listen to his relationship dramas. Not even a “hello” at first. I was extremely firm with him and said I was not getting into this with him, that I found such assumption offensive and he even said “Oh but you’re always there for me”. I think you can imagine, ladies, that I made it very clear that he didn’t have respect for me enough to consider whether my life was sufficiently important to just wander into and out of at will then he could expect significantly less importance in it.
“slap slap and slap me again” he says “but that’s ok, I like you a lot”. However he DID then message to say he realised that he had been thoughtless and that I had given him something to think about regarding his own behaviour and selfishness, and apologised.
He is EUM at the moment – had a horrible relationship with his wife and then straight into a rebound with someone loonytunes (claiming that she was setting him up with a text message “accidentally” sent to him to test his jealousy. Thing is for me he’s always known me whilst I was being FG for my former idiot.
He’s seeing the me that was there before that guy who had lots of backbone and spirit and that is great as an understanding for me to know she’s rising from the ashes 🙂
I am going to start therapy but to be honest NML I suspect your site will continue to be of absolute importance. Potentially a lot more use that therapy in fact!
Karen
on 09/07/2009 at 1:23 pm
NML you are without a doubt amazing. Ditto to what many people have said which is that this is the best site out there. You are extremely insightful and it has helped me personally (and many others). For me, this site has truly been better than therapy or any book or any other type of advice I have ever sought. I love what you say and how you say it so much that I even wrote to the OPRAH Winfrey show about you (Im in the states- but Im sure everyone knows who im talking about). I dont know if it will get anywhere (my email that is– LOL) but I really feel that your words, advice, messages etc… needs to be known and shared by many others because you are truly the BEST when it comes to this subject!!! Thank you so much for changing my life and the lives of many others and I truly hope you continue to blog about this!! 🙂
jupiter
on 09/07/2009 at 5:48 pm
@ notmeanttobe
I have been in a two year on and off relationship with an EUM, and it has not been pretty. This time around, it’s been two months of no contact. I still think about him, want him around, wished he wanted me, but he doesn’t. He’s probably not thinking about me at all. Some of the things your EUM has said and done are the exact things that sooo many women on this site have experienced. You’ve probably heard his sob story a million times. The whole “I can only express myself physically” is a hallmark saying of many of these idiots. And, all these AC can be sweet sometimes; they have to be in order to keep you hooked, but it means less than s**t. You have no reason to be worried about his feelings. He’s gets to have the comfort of a marriage and also have a girl on the side to feed his ego and to alleviate the sameness of his days. Really, what are you getting out of this situation? Less than nothing. He’s selfish and awful. And, truthfully, do you really want to be in a relationship with someone who could betray his wife that way? Even if he did leave her and came to you, would you really want to be constantly worried that he was going to do the same to you? You’re selling yourself so much shorter than you deserve. And, as you may realize after reading this blog, your involvement with someone that is married signifies that you are unavailable in your own right. I would recommend you reading the Getting Past Your Past blog on wordpress and reading her book and reading Women Who Love to Much. These books really helped me. Good luck!
aphrogirl
on 09/07/2009 at 6:46 pm
I just finished reading Robin Norwood’s classic Women Who Love too Much.She ends by saying that a support group is essential to women recovering from a struggle like many of us here can describe. This site has functioned as my support group, and it so great because it is not tied to any time or place and all are welcome.
Thanks NML and all who come here in good faith.
I left here a short time ago becasue i realized all my posting about him was keeping me tied to him and I really want out of the emotional connection. In the book Norwood also states that it is important that the support group not be a bitch session, meaning it cant be about the guys. This goes along so well with all of NML’s posts on bringing the focus back to us. Though, I think some bitching about the arseclown in the beginning is necessary and somehow comforting and even morbidly entertaining to many of us !
I am also in the middle of reading The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists, highly recommended if the EUM was your first weird experience with a person like this, and if you are seeking to understand and recover from your involvement with them. Part of that book explains how many epople suffer from wounds in childhood, and many of us develop coping strategies to avoid pain, that do not work so well for us later in life.
But here is what I want to share and how it relates. This latest series of posts did make me think on all that I want, and how I developed some f*cked up fantasy of what I thought I wanted with the EUM. Of course, the EUM is unwilling, and / or incapable of giving me what I really want, which is a kind honest respectful relationship. So I had to come up with this alternate fantasy reality of how it was OK with him on his terms and any day it would somehow magically and fantastically be different. And I let go of everything I wanted and turned all my worthy goals into just wanting him to come around. And I developed it all with my great capacity for fantasy to avoid reality.
The last part of NML’s above post ends with ” Let go”. Easier said than done, for me. I have been struggling with how to fully let go for the last few months of NC. NC has not been all that hard but obsessive thoughts and mini fantasies about the EUM still pop into my head daily, I think they are habits from fantasizing that the EUM will be coming around any day now, fantasies I have carried for the years I have known him.
I recently realized those obsessive thoughts, which are pure fantasy, need to be challenged.
Now, as they come into my head I challenge them every single time, right away, by repeating ” __________(His full given name)…is not interested in working with me.” Some time I say knowing me, sometimes I say loving me as I want to be loved. Sometimes I say “at this time”, leaving room for some weird future where he may truly be different. And, rest assured, I will most certainly know the difference.
It does not matter the words, but it matters to me that I use his full name. and repeat till the thought of himgoes away. I am even starting to notice that sometimes the damn fantasy thinking comes on subconsciously, like a pleasant familiar dream, so I even call it sneaky when it comes in that way.
The important part is that I am retraining my belief system , away from the messed up belief system he helped me buy into with all his ambiguity.I think the ambiguity is what messed me up more than anything, Irrational behavior can be pretty damn confusing if you are not hip to it. I consider myself lots wiser about this sort of thing now.
I took up smoking again when I took up NC, and knew that was something else that tied in. So, I have also toady tried this same idea when the desire to smoke came up, actually saying to myself…” smoking is bad for me ” ( Yeah sounds dumb…but remeber my capacity for fantasy is my childhood coping strategy
I like to reinforce telling me that smoking is bad for me with an image of the cloud of smoke going into my lungs and leaving its mark on them. Yes, in my own head I had come to half believe that I would be exempt from any ill effects of smoking. Today for the first day in weeks I have not smoked, nor wanted to smoke every time the desire has come up.
Whew, long winded, hopefully kinda clearly written. This is something that is working for me in my struggle to let go completely. I hope this can help somebody else in my support group
I have always believed it is only the truth does set you free. I needed to remember that and live it. I need to know my truth and always keep in on the forefront. Best wishes to all, thanks for being there.
metsgirl
on 09/07/2009 at 6:53 pm
@pinky Thanks. I know that AC’s will no longer find me attractive and that really does come as a tremendous compliment for me….I’m thinking you probably know what I mean since you’re experiencing some of the same things. So kudos to you! And keep it up…your worth it!
metsgirl
on 09/07/2009 at 7:02 pm
@Hot Alpha Female. I never use this term (but I’ve heard it used here) you’re “spot on” =). I know I had to start at that point before I ever noticed any kind of change in my thinking / emotions. I’m far from cured but my mind-set has done at least a 180′. Great advise!
TJ
on 09/07/2009 at 7:32 pm
Can someone advise?
The AC is/has been twisting everything around and telling my manager (via a flurry of emails that I learned have gone through the main office, not the manager’s private email) that I am psychotic, needy, unwilling to leave him alone, stalking, etc. I know this because my manager called me and said (repeated) some exact words that the AC has said to me. My manager is a man about the same age as the AC and AC is a skilled, manipulative liar. I haven’t had any interaction with the AC for months but last week I slipped up and told he him was an asshole. At first my manager supported me, but AC waged a war against me.
I’ve got a big project coming to a close next week and I have a feeling that afterward I’m going to be demoted or fired. I was also told that “everyone likes him” and “things” have to “cool off”– and in a couple of weeks we’ll revisit the issue (my project ends in 10 days and I’m the key lead on it)
As I mentioned, the AC took everything about me- my warm, loving nature, my friendliness, etc and twisted “me” into this pathetic person. Ever since I began ignoring him months ago, I think he’s been trying to take back “control” and “win”.
That’s the thing– I have been ignoring him, taken the lead on this project, succeeding, feeling happy, etc. until I slipped up last week.
After being told to “LEAVE HIM ALONE” (as though I’ve been pursuing him!!!) I showed up yesterday to a very chilly environment
People are looking at me funnily. People are staring at me. If I’m my friendly self, I feel people are now hesitant to interact. II don’t have proof but it’s like I’ve been tarred and feathered as a mental case.
Any ideas?
Do I explain that the AC is psychologically troubled, on medication, etc. etc.– or what? Or is that digging my own grave?
Karen
on 09/07/2009 at 8:09 pm
TJ:
Do you have a Human Resources Dept at your job?
Did the manager ask your AC to please refrain from sending those types of emails to “the main office” and that he needs to direct them to him directly and not involve any one else? Your manager needs to follow professional protocol to protect BOTH you and your AC not just your AC! Your AC could be claiming that he is being “harrassed/stalked” whatever, but you in essence can easily file a claim against the company itself for not having handled the matter professionally and accordingly until all facts were collected. This is the same as in anything.. you are INNOCENT until proven Guilty.
Can you please explain further what you mean by “At first my manager supported me, but AC waged a war against me.”?
Why did your manager stop supporting you? What directions (if any) have you been given from your manager? Has he said that you need to stay away from your AC? What does he mean when he says: “things have to cool off” and to “leave him alone”?
For now I would first start with something in writing from your end to your manager rebutting these allegations. It could be something like:
Per our conversation the other day regarding (your AC’s name) While I appreciate you bringing this matter to my attention, I would like to first request that you ask (AC) to direct any and all complaints about me to you directly and not to include any of the other staff. I have taken this matter seriously and expect the same in return from my employer. I would also like to add that this is also an official written denial about what (AC) is alleging that I am doing. At this time, I would like an official review of the matter as I feel my job/position is in jeopordy and I do not feel that it is warranted. For the record, his allegations are false and I would like to discuss this matter further and an opportunity to defend myself and my stance.
That way its in writing, you are covering yourself and you are to an extent, making it official while stating in writing that you are denying what he is saying that you are doing. Your manager will need to comply with your request as you are still employed at this company and as I mentioned, he needs to protect you as well until this matter has been cleared. If nothing occurs within a limited amount of time you will have to find someone else to escalate this to and bring the email that you wrote with you!
It cannot be one way no matter how much your AC is liked. Remain cool, calm and collected and by all means… do not talk or interact with your AC at this time. Do not give yourself the opportunity to say a word to him -especially a bad one as that could damage your stance in this whole matter!
I hope this helps. Keep us posted as to what happens and good luck!
Karen
on 09/07/2009 at 8:14 pm
PS: I would like to just add TJ that i am not a lawyer or anything.. just giving you my personal advice/opinion. 😉
notmeanttobe
on 09/07/2009 at 8:20 pm
@ Jupiter
Congratulations on 2 months of no contact. And thank you SOOOO much for your response. I read it about 15 minutes before my “I can’t do this anymore†phone call with my EUM/MM, and it really helped me (even though I was shaking when the phone rang). You said “You have no reason to be worried about his feelings.†And you were right – when I told him I couldn’t continue in the relationship, he just said “I understandâ€, and said we could take on a “new role†as just colleagues – he didn’t even ask to be friends this time. I told him (as De suggested) that I couldn’t communicate with him for a while, that I had to grieve our relationship and he just went quiet and then finally said “me tooâ€. He then asked if we could still hang out at conferences, and have a few drinks, and then I paused and asked him straight out if I had just been a “___ buddy†to him and he just said “no, it was more than that, it was nice to get to know you.†And “You knew I couldn’t commit to you anyway, but if circumstances were different, I would have committed to you†What does that mean????? Overall it was a bit of a letdown as I geared myself up for more resistance than this to us ending. I guess he did me a favour.
Jupiter, you asked “Even if he did leave her and came to you, would you really want to be constantly worried that he was going to do the same to you?†and I can answer that with No, No, No – I have worried already that he may have had others on the side with his cavalier (?right word?) attitude. His parting words were “see you at the conference (in August, that we’ll both be at), if not beforeâ€. So I ended the call feeling relieved, confused, 10 lbs lighter, and somewhat empty. I thought I would be a mess, and not able to return to work after my break (when we had the call) but so far I have been fine. I interacted with some colleagues and already felt my smile was more “genuine†because I am not in that immoral relationship any more.
I know I have rough days ahead, and tomorrow will be day 1 of NC for me. I feel I have finally set a boundary with my EUM, and taken a small step towards my own personal happiness having *let go* of this dysfunctional relationship. I will try reading the “Women Who Love Too Much†book too (thanks for the suggestion Jupiter and aphrogirl) – funny, I think I saw my mum reading that book several years ago…
@aphrogirl
“__my EUM…is not interested in …loving me as I want to be loved.†Thank you for this – I will keep that in mind in the days ahead.
Thank you again everyone for the insight and support. I hope I can return the favour one day in some way.
aphrogirl
on 09/07/2009 at 8:27 pm
TJ,
“The AC is/has been twisting everything around and telling my manager (via a flurry of emails that I learned have gone through the main office, not the manager’s private email) that I am psychotic, needy, unwilling to leave him alone, stalking, etc. I know this because my manager called me and said (repeated) some exact words that the AC has said to me.”
Don;t know where you work, but in the US, in a large company, calling someone else a psychotic stalker, ( who is not stalking them) and talking about them in general would be considered hearsay at best, would not hold up under any kind of scrutiny and would certainly not be grounds for firing. Most of this he said she said stuff goes to HR and people do not get fired except for clear infraction of established policy. Most times a warning comes first. Of course, I assume the people in question are doing good work that is profitable to the company.
IF you are in a small company with no protection or policy your only recourse is to assert there is no proof of his allegations. If it comes down to talking about him, you will have to decide how much you want to tell what you know. If you do so, stick with the facts, including missed romantic signals, and tell the truth. I sure would mention my suspicions that he was trying to sabotage me, but thats me, and I am self employed.
I’m in small biz, I do not expect well adjusted behavior all the time from everybody, but I do expect work to be well done regardless of personal struggles. Some companies put up with the worst behaviors because person X makes them a big profit. Not all biznesses always play by good ethics. Hopefully your does. Good luck.
Mike
on 09/07/2009 at 8:47 pm
To TJ
If this goes any further he will have to submit proof that you are doing these things that he says. It sounds like none of this alleged psychotic behavior from you occurs during working hours. You have a legal right to ask for a sit down meeting with you, him and the Human Resources manager and ask for direct evidence of such behavior, (ie. he would have to produce phone records, emails from you etc., which I doubt he will be able to do). If you are fired because of these allegations and they turn out to be unfounded, you have the legal option to sue not only him but the company you worked for. How do I know this? I am a lawyer.
best of luck.
annied
on 09/07/2009 at 8:50 pm
notmeantobe, I wish you the best of luck with NC. Stick to it. It hurts, but you’ll feel a little bit more like your “old self” every day.
On the many occasions that I told my AC that I couldn’t do this anymore, his reaction was the same as your AC … the whole “i understand” and “you know it was more than that” crap.
it would tick me off that he was so cool about it and then i’d get upset and then I’d get right back into being with him. Made no sense.
ANYway, I’m on Day 17 of NC and he is staying away … and for the first time I am really glad that he is and not wishing he’d come creeping back. Rough days ahead, but we can do it.
On day 50 of NC I’m buying myself a new pair of shoes. 😛
PlanetJane
on 09/07/2009 at 10:31 pm
“It would tick me off that he was so cool about it and then i’d get upset and then I’d get right back into being with him. Made no sense.
ANYway, I’m on Day 17 of NC and he is staying away … and for the first time I am really glad that he is and not wishing he’d come creeping back. Rough days ahead, but we can do it.
On day 50 of NC I’m buying myself a new pair of shoes.”
I’m right there with you guys. It’s been two weeks today for me! And I will not fall back into the pattern.
And, think I’ll buy myself a nice handbag on day 50!! 😉
notmeanttobe
on 10/07/2009 at 2:02 am
@ annied and Planet Jane
“It would tick me off that he was so cool about it†– YES
Arrrrgh, why are they so frustrating this way? I fretted for days about ending things, hardly got sleep for several nights, and he’s just so, I don’t know, NON-responsive to breaking up. Do they think we will come running back soon, so they don’t take us seriously? Or are they just so good at hiding their feelings, even when “rejected†by us, since they’re so EU?
I suppose I would be guilty of not following through with a clean break the first 2 times, but those times we continued as ‘friendsâ€, this time there was no such agreement. Although, I did say I didn’t want to chat online first time I tried to end things. He said “we’ll see how long that lasts†– and I lasted all of 6 days. *sigh* That’s the longest I have not been in communication with him – how pathetic. I have been tempted to IM him tonight when I saw him online, but managed to restrain myself and even blocked him.
annied and Planet Jane – you have both mentioned rewards at 50 days NC, but I think I will need one sooner!! Even your two weeks-ish sounds like sooo long to me right now! I’ll have to think of a small but nice reward for 2 weeks. Stay strong, and I will try to as well…
PlanetJane
on 10/07/2009 at 4:54 am
notmeantobe,
Lord sister, I know exactly where you’re comin from 😉 I think of it as something like AA – one day at a time – or sometimes, one minute at a time – I WILL NOT CALL. It’s hard, but it works if you take it like that.
It’s easier for me now because I found out for certain (this time) that he is sleeping with a friend of mine. And he knows I know. And he’s not calling either…you can guess why. Which really flipping HURTS, but it is also allowing me, at least, some certaintly for now about what to expect (no call). And I’m pissed enough, and disgusted enough to follow through this time.
Good luck to you. You’ll make it!
annied
on 10/07/2009 at 2:01 pm
If there were a way to FLUSH him out of my brain, I’d be just fine. It is the circular thinking that drives me crazy. How many times can you go over the same thing? Really, how long does it take before you stop “talking to yourself” about it?
notmeanttobe
on 10/07/2009 at 3:01 pm
PlanetJane
He’s sleeping with your friend – ouch, that must hurt, sorry to hear about that. Good to hear you’re turning it into something kind of positive (motivation for staying NC). I used to wish my AC/MM would do something to really tick me off, but not sure I want to go through that kind of hurt that you must be enduring. I’m dreading the day I see him trying to lure in a new OW.
annied
I know what you mean about the circular thinking – I have caught myself wondering if I really should have broken up with him already, and it’s only been 20 hours or so! He is the first thing I think of when I wake up, and whenever I don’t HAVE to think about something else. We must LET GO to get closer to our personal happiness.
Thanks for the advice and best wishes. Good luck to all…
PlanetJane
on 10/07/2009 at 6:12 pm
notmeanttobe,
“I used to wish my AC/MM would do something to really tick me off.”
It’s funny…or actually quite the opposite but, I’ve been waiting for eum to do just that; I knew it was coming. But little did I know it would have the added hurt and humiliation of the betrayal of a friend as well.
I STILL even blame myself at times – if only I’d been more aggressive, if only I’d been more open and communicative – but now I can say to myself, STOP, and have the reality-check/bomb of: He slept with your friend, dummy! Do you really think some comment you made or didn’t make on page three of the “relationship” is of any consequence at all when he cares so little about you AND the “relationship” that he will sleep with your effing friends! Guess it takes a (repeated) kick in the head for some of us. I can only hope I’ve learned something. And I need to chill with some serious nurturing and self love for the next few months, or even years.
And,
“Do they think we will come running back soon, so they don’t take us seriously? Or are they just so good at hiding their feelings, even when “rejected†by us, since they’re so EU?”
I’ve really come to the conclusion that eums do not have “feelings” as we know them. I think, mine at least, has feelings for how things affect him, but that’s about as far as it goes. He may have shadows of feelings – feelings he knows he should feel, such as, “I feel kinda bad I hurt you.” But as NML says in MUAFBG, I really think that they think of us in the way you’d think of a pet. It hard to accept, and sad, but true.
annied
on 10/07/2009 at 7:53 pm
PlanetJane – man, that sucks! I wanted to concur with what you said about these guys not having feelings as we know them. “My” EUM
had deep, deep feelings – for himself. Any slight would turn into something horrible. But if he did the same to me and I got upset, I was too sensitive or couldnt take a joke. He is (as most are) the most self-absorbed, self-serving person I’ve ever known.
Tiffany @ E101
on 10/07/2009 at 9:02 pm
I like your advice about finding a hobby outside of landing a guy. It sounds pathetic but it’s so true sometimes. Suddenly all your hobbies take a backburner while you try to mend a relationship, and then you start forgetting you had hobbies. I have so many friends like this, too. Great advice.
De
on 11/07/2009 at 7:10 am
Notmeantobe, it’s Deb but my friends call me De 🙂
Oh well done you, the thing is the tightness in you chest will free up you will begin to breath again. I’m so glad you had the feeling of being ten pounds lighter, such a good sign that you were indeed carrying alot of his crap, good that you gave it back.(everytime you think of him you can visualiz all the pain and crappy bullcrap you put up with, scoop it up and throw it at him). It will lighten that load everytime you do that. Any negative thoughts grab them roll them into a ball look at it, see a handgrinade in front of you and throw that at him as well. I can honestly say this helped me, stop negative thinking about myself and put allowed some peace to come into my life, peace I deserved. Now you just carry you, your own sweet self, give yourself all the hugs and kisses and tears you need, bubblebaths, nights out with girlfriends, funny movies (no romantic sad ones”) and some exercise to get you into you body. Celebrate, you have just managed to get rid of a toxic relationship!!!
And believe me they will say anything so they don’t look like an a..hole, al that stuff he said sweetly, was to make sure he could keep the door open, don’t buy into it!!! It’s a trick. Yuk and Eeewww . Don’t wait for him to call, get up and go live your life, it is far tooooooo short to waste another minute!
peace
De
De
on 11/07/2009 at 8:06 am
Aphrogirl… what he is doing is character assasination and slander,
so not fair.
Same thing happened to me, I cut him out of a business deal and he went back and told the other partner he had had to ‘cut contact’ with me last year (yeah as if he even new the idea of cutting contact, those were my words to him) because I had a terrible ‘crash’ on him, I told the other partner, yes I did, it was a friggin train crash! He had micro managed me for two years, while he was swanning it on the skislopes with his blonde bimbo girlfriend (which he didn’t tell me he had) I was punding the streets making contacts, working on the business plan, pitch training, blah blah…just doing all the work hoping he would see how mauch I could love him!! yeah and he called it a ‘crash’!!
Luckily for me, the other partner was a woman…. She saw through it in a heart beat..he had told her the business idea was all his and he done all the work. She said, this guy is delusional, you are the talent De, you made this happen, you don’t owe him anything cut him off!.
Whew, I thanked god the universe was looking after me. Sure enough I cut contact, have a great business with an understanding smart business partner and he can take a flying jump off one of those frigin mountains with his sexbunny, I hope they land on top of each other and start an avalanche which pounds down..ok no I won’t say that here, this is for healing not for spells ::))
Anyhoo, thing is..I have met this guy and he is saying and doing all the right things and what am I thinking…’whats wrong with him, there must be something wrong with him’, he’s atttacted to me and I attract losers!!! I’m even thinking I’d better call his ex to find out what mental disorder have I come in contact with this time!!
Is this just residue or is this real?? I can’t tell anymore!
De
notmeanttobe
on 11/07/2009 at 1:04 pm
@De,
Thanks for your words of encouragement. How long have you been NC with your EUM? I like the analogy of the grenade ïŠ
I am happy to be on day 2 of NC and glad he hasn’t contacted me either, even though a part of me hopes there is a message from him when I check my email. I am realizing just how much crap I did have to go through to be with him – even my email address is under a male name so his wife didn’t clue in to emails I sent. Again, pathetic.
De, you mentioned exercising, and NML said “Find something that interests you other than getting hooked up with a manâ€. Well, I started a new dance class last week (on the day I last met up with my AC/MM, as chance has it) and the first class I thought about him constantly, and imagined myself showing him all the moves. This week though (last night), I hardly thought of him at all, and was more focused on learning the moves and getting to know the other women in my class. That felt so good. I am relieved that I am not going to “shrivel up and die†just because I am no longer with my AC/MM. Then on the way home, the song “Not Meant to Be†by Theory of a Deadman came on the radio – it helps me to think of ending things with him, and is the inspiration for my name on here. I turned the radio up full blast and belted it out!
Sorry to be so longwinded. I guess I am writing on here instead of IMing or emailing *him*. Thank you all for the opportunity to do this – it is sooo helpful.
lisa
on 11/07/2009 at 2:06 pm
notmeanttobe, KEEP WRITING here. We all know how you feel to some extent or another, and in order to break out of an unhealthy relationship and start to gain your beautiful self back, and focus on loving yourself again you need to have a safe place to let it all out!
I was with a married guy, too, and I remember those early days of slowly realizing that he wasn’t getting a divorce and that I was just getting “crumbs…” and the fake e-mail addresses, (well, I didn’t have that, but I was just a hidden commodity)…. so it felt the same. If you have to hide things from his wife, he’s never going to give you a full relationship. If he was going to ever leave her for you, he’d let it out IN THE OPEN that he loves you and not her, you know? Anyway, I thought I’d never be able to stop the ups and downs and drama and love/hate passion. I thought I’d never be able to stop thinking about him. I kept wishing that the words he told me about wanting to be with me were true…. It’s all relationship garbage that he gives to us even though has a lovely (or not so lovely) wife at home who he goes home to, eats dinner with, watches t.v. with, does yardwork, has sex, etc… all kinds of things. And they’ll tell you they don’t do those things, but they do! You are not his priority, so remember you have to stick to this and not let him use you. He didn’t earn it, he’s not 100 percent in with you. It is hard to let ourselves realize that! And it hurts so badly. But, thank God for this site that someone was able to open our eyes, or who knows how long we would let the illusion go on and on. Mine was a bit more than 2 years of my life, but I’ve been about 6 months no contact except for a few times when he tried to contact me and I told him to “bug off unless he was truly divorced at some point.” Since I (now) know he is not ever getting divorced, and it was all just lines he fed me, I know he is not coming back. And it still bugs me that I was so naive, BUT now that I am this far into no contact and getting my life focused back on myself, my family, etc.. it doesn’t hurt so harshly like it did in the beginning. I remember reading other women’s posts who were further along than I was in the healing process and thinking “I’ll never feel that happy again, this is going to kill me….” type thoughts, but hang in there! You WILL feel better and it will all be worth what you have to go through now :). A lot of us here can attest to it, and though we don’t know you personally, we really care and want your story to have closure so you can get on with the happy life you were meant to live!
(sorry, that was long, but I get emotional from time to time in recalling how I used to feel)
De
on 11/07/2009 at 2:59 pm
notmeanttobe…I’m not even sure how long now, it’s been a yo yo of NC then back again for the past year and a half, he would somehow find a way back in, then I would feel like I was the grenade exploding and stop it, cool off then it would start again. This last time I think it was around April I said no-more, this time it feel very real. I counted the day’s after to see how long it took to lose the weight of him and honest it was no more than two weeks before I was bouncing along with my own self feeling happy and light. it may take longer for you but remember everytime you think of him thank the lord you are saving yourself for someone worth your time energy and life..and that someone is you!! Dancing is great! 🙂
and keep writing here, if you think of him, or feel you want to contact him, come back here…. come back here and read read read and keep reading till that feeling disappears!!!
peace
notmeanttobe
on 11/07/2009 at 5:21 pm
@lisa
Thanks for your message – I guess I will keep on writing then! Your words were difficult to hear, but so needed (actually brought tears to my eyes though). Six months NC for you – wow, that’s great! I believe you that I will be feel better in time (as Leona Lewis has said) and that it will all be worth it in the end.
My AC/MM never did promise a divorce, he just said (or IM’d) vague things like “I love you very much but where does that lead?†and “who knows what the future will bring, perhaps all will be revealed one dayâ€. He once told me he had thought of divorcing his wife many, many times, but said it would be “messy†and too traumatic for her. I asked her if he loves her and he answered “not in the way I’d like toâ€. He told me they hadn’t had sex for years, and when I told him I had trouble believing that he suggested that I phone her and ask her! That was part of the reason I became “intimate†with him – I felt sorry for him that his wife had refused him for years. He certainly didn’t seem out of practice, though (OK, can’t stay on *that* train of thought…). Do you really think they all do have sex with their wives, and just lie, lie, lie? I even told him I would understand if he did have sex with her (he already admitted to sleeping in the same bed most nights). We also had an “agreement†that we were exclusive, and he said “trust is important in a relationship†– how could I fall for all that utter crap???? I sure never felt like his priority though, as you said.
Lisa, you said “sorry, that was long, but I get emotional from time to time in recalling how I used to feel†but no, thank you for the long message, I needed every word.
@De
I hope I feel like you did after 2 weeks. I agree, dancing is great, I love it as it is my stress relief. And I’m glad your last NC start in April felt “realâ€. I’m starting to hope that this is it for me, too, as I haven’t even cried about breaking up with him yet. Last 2 times I ended it, I sobbed for days, couldn’t focus at work, cried whenever I was alone in my car, etc, etc. I don’t know if this time I’m just stuck in the denial stage? Maybe I have cried all the tears for him that I had? Maybe because I am feeling the support of all of you here? I’m hoping I’m like you, De, and my heart has just “had it†with him and his crappy crumbs. I have put up a boundary and he’s not allowed to cross it!!!
I’m so pleased that so many of you have gone NC and can tell us that it works. It really gives me hope that one day I’ll really have had enough and manage to do it and mean it. Like lots of you, I too have tried to end things but my heart’s never been totally in it so it’s never worked for long.
Can anyone tell me if, the fact that each time you end things with the AC it feels less and less traumatic, is a sign that you are getting to the end of your tether. I ask because this has been my pattern plus I am now getting very p*ssed off with his self centred attitude. He’s all laughs and flirts and attentive one day, and barely civil the next. He’s like this with everyone but I am getting annoyed with it, it’s just rude apart from anything else.
In addition I am tired of his conflicting words. He has been ‘joking’ with me, ever since we split up and he met his current wife/mother figure who gives him anything he wants, that I never give him anything (he loves women buying him things). I reply that I once gave him my heart but he threw it away – so now we are equals and give each other nothing (apart from the fact that we still have sex and have done so for years)
What is really making me feel miserable is that he confused me by taking me out for a nice meal a couple of weeks ago (and he NEVER does this), it was really pleasant, we’ve known each other for ever so we are supposed to be old friends (FWB these days). So this week, I suggested that I returned the favour and we go for a meal one evening and I pay. He won’t do this, he has this thing where he won’t accept anything from me (though he will from anyone else), I think because he then thinks then he’s under some obligation to me – but then I get the ‘you never give me anything’ complaint.
Talk about mixed messages, I can’t win either way – but the result is that I feel rejected and unhappy more than I feel wanted and respected – and I still haven’t reached the stage of telling him to F off and mean it.
I read this site all the time, the messages are so clear and your experiences back it up, I know I need to stop this, so hearing your stories gives me hope that one day I too will reach a limit.
lisa
on 11/07/2009 at 9:02 pm
Sadthing, I guess what I forgot to write in my last post was the fact that for almost a year (before I found this web-site) I had tried breaking things off and tried No Contact on my own, and always either myself of the guy would break it, and somehow (like everyone else) I hoped things would be different…. “this time he’ll really mean what he says” or “maybe I am expecting too much, so I’ll back off and give him space…” etc… IT was always a roller coaster because I couldn’t admit that he really was never going to have both feet in. Once I found this site and learned, TRULY LEARNED, that “no contact” means exactly that: NO CONTACT. (it doesn’t mean that I break up, don’t call him and then wait for a crumb or an e-mail… it means I break up, block everything, realize the truth and then move on with my life. What a harsh reality! But it was true! I had to stop thinking that I was going to get him back and he’d be different next time around. Every once-in-awhile, there is a fleeting moment where I dream, “oh maybe he’ll show up on my door step someday as someone who wants and is available and capable of putting both feet in the relationship” but then I ask myself “Do I really want someone like that for the rest of my life?” Honestly, the truthful answer is “no.” So, to get to the point of my rambling, YEs, it does feel less and less dramatic because he doesn’t believe you’re going to end it, so he doesn’t blow hot anymore to keep you. He’s thinking that after your little breaks, you’ll come back. But! 🙂 Once you close the door for good, he might try to blow hot and win you back, but you’ll be on your way to a new, happy you, and he won’t be able to even get in touch unless he starts to stalk. The hard part is realizing that once you close the door for good, he will probably not chase after you and offer you everything you’ve dreamed of! But someone will someday. I believe that. I’d rather be alone and happy than in a 1/2 assed relationship and sad and confused on a regular basis.
I don’t know if that helps, but I wish you the best as you try to see things clearly and figure out your path in this relationship. Just always be honest with yourself and your answers will come.
I”m not trying to be cold or anything. I had to come to all this, too, in my own head, and it wasn’t fun!
notmeanttobe
on 12/07/2009 at 4:27 am
@sadthing
You said “we are equals and give each other nothing (apart from the fact that we still have sex and have done so for years)” – sorry, but I don’t consider that you are giving him nothing – you are giving him your precious body and your energy.
As far as getting to “the end of my tether”, when I asked my AC for the umpteenth time what I meant to him and what he valued about me as a person, he just shrugged and said “I’m sorry, I don’t know what you’re looking for”. He can go on and on about my physical traits that he likes, but nothing about me as a person. I got sick of having no answer to that question.
I found this song by Sara Bareilles Too good for you (so sorry) on youtube:
and when I looked up the lyrics online, they express how I feel about him now. I think you mentioned your AC is also a MM, and I found the posting and comments on this blog about “Breaking up and getting over a married man/attached man” to be extremely helpful
I have only just finished day 2 of NC (so far so good), so I’m pretty new at this myself, but I do feel that I have had enough of this roller coaster nonsense and I am ready to get my life back after more than a year of getting the scraps of his time and attention. I hope you are able to get to this point too sadthing. Best of luck to you!
ph2072
on 12/07/2009 at 6:36 am
Excellent. 🙂
De
on 12/07/2009 at 7:39 am
Sadthing,
I don’t think where you are is cold, I think it’s vibrant and warm and right, you have found your way back to you and you have grieveda dreadful experience. I love that we know the score, it petters out and when it’s done it’s done. I look back and know my experience wasn’t just about him, it was also about me giving up and grieving illusional love… in the end we put both feet it the relationship with ourselves, this is our triumph over adversity, or heriosm and real reason to celebrate and remember we did it for ourselves. We would still be dancing to the beat of their drum if we had not finally said, I deserve more than this, I’m gonna clean myself up, close this chapter, cheer up and get my life back for a new begining and it’s a good feeling being in the new beginning, you have an exciting future with so many possibilities, fresh and clean.
‘The hard part is realizing that once you close the door for good, he will probably not chase after you and offer you everything you’ve dreamed of! But someone will someday.’
This is exactly where I’m stuck, I’d rather put up with his conflicting behaviour and wait for his crumbs than have nothing at all – and now I’m beating myself up even more because I can see what I’m doing but can’t quite get to the point of stopping it.
Of course you’re right, they know that you will have them back based on past experience. He doesn’t accept it when I end it because then I am calling the shots, so he always gets me back to where we were, and now I realise that his refusal to have dinner with me is yet another way of him not giving me what I want. It’s a crazy power game and I’m letting him have the power to make me unhappy and it’s no good.
I wish I had enough space on my walls for all the posts on this site, I need to read them all every day!!! They and the messages on here are an inspiration.
De
on 12/07/2009 at 8:39 am
Oh whoops, I mean lisa! 🙂 also I will say sadthing, you have got to give ‘yourself’ the respect and love..don’t wait for him, it will never ever ever come, I feel the pain you are in. Believe me when I say it is so so much sunnier after him. Please throw him away like the garbage he is!! please, I beg you!!!
notmeanttobe
on 12/07/2009 at 1:00 pm
@sadthing
I tried to leave you a message, but it said my comment was being moderated, and I think it may be because it had website links in it, so here it is without the links:
You said “we are equals and give each other nothing (apart from the fact that we still have sex and have done so for years)†– sorry, but I don’t consider that you are giving him nothing – you are giving him your precious body and your energy.
As far as getting to “the end of my tetherâ€, when I asked my AC for the umpteenth time what I meant to him and what he valued about me as a person, he just shrugged and said “I’m sorry, I don’t know what you’re looking forâ€. He can go on and on about my physical traits that he likes, but nothing about me as a person. I got sick of having no answer to that question. I have always felt like a “supplement” to his life, not a cherished, valued partner. I also feel guilty about potentially hurting his family,
I found this song by Sara Bareilles Too Good for You so Sorry, on youtube, and when I looked up the lyrics online, they express how I feel about him now. I think you mentioned your AC is also a MM, and I found the posting and comments on this blog about “Breaking up and getting over a married man/attached man†to be extremely helpful.
I have only just finished day 2 of NC (so far so good), so I’m pretty new at this myself, but I do feel that I have had enough of this roller coaster nonsense and I am ready to get my life back after more than a year of getting the scraps of his time and attention. I hope you are able to get to this point too sadthing. The women on this site have been fantastic also, even though I am new here. Best of luck to you
searchingwithin
on 12/07/2009 at 4:37 pm
I believe that part of the problem lies in the fact that we stop listening to our heart/intuition, which always knows the truth. We act against our “gut feelings”, and allow our conscious mind to fill our head with a story, or we ignore our feelings because we have been taught that acting on certain feelings is wrong, or not polite. If we learn to listen to our bodies, which store our emotions, and act on them (not impulses), we will be so much more content, and happy, because when we act against them, we are not congruent with ourselves, and we make ourselves uncomfortable.
searchingwithin’s last blog post..I Am Not Tempted By Anything But Temptation
delightedtobefree
on 13/07/2009 at 7:30 am
I totally agree searchingwithin, you nailed it!! 🙂 But then the original message gets skewared in our minds with mixed signals and the original message still trying so hard to get through, no wonder we go crazy!. I think if it doesn’t make you happy…run!!!
xx
Have decided to give myself one of these great names so from now on De is ‘delightedtobefree’
not meant to be
on 13/07/2009 at 1:20 pm
@delightedtobefree
I love your new name, and love that it still starts with “deâ€.
You said “if it doesn’t make you happy…. run †I totally agree. Along the lines of searchingwithin’s comment, I have been ignoring my gut feelings, and stayed in a toxic relationship for far too long. When I broke up with my AC, I immediately felt physically lighter, which was probably my body letting go of some negative stored emotion, or as you said earlier De, letting go of “his crapâ€.
I am now on day 4 of NC, which would normally be when I would be getting anxious about not hearing from him, and frantically looking for emails, or looking for him online to chat. Then, if I got an email, I would immediately feel calm, as if I got a “hit†of some addicting drug (his love was like poisonâ€). Last night, I did have a strong urge to contact him online, but I distracted myself with listening to music, as many of you have said that breaking NC is never a positive thing. Today, I am so glad I resisted, and I feel calm all on my own without getting a “hit†of the AC drug.
Per NML’s suggestion in the post above, “I want to be happy by …getting rid of this toxic relationship once and for all, and getting in touch with my own interestsâ€. I have gotten in touch with some friends I had neglected while I was obsessing over my AC, and they were so glad to hear from me, and so fun for me to reconnect.
delightedtobefree, I am going to take your cue and change my name a little bit to “not meant to beâ€. Hope you don’t mind. The spaces between the words represent the boundaries I am putting into place between myself and my AC, and any other EUP that may come my way and threaten my happiness!!
Let’s start listening to our intuition and get closer to being truly happy…
DazedandConfused
on 13/07/2009 at 1:40 pm
This was a good post… it’s not something you haven’t said before but I enjoyed the repackaging of the message.
I am the point, after this last epiphany relationship, where I am now aware that I am not happy. I am not sure how this came to be, because when I met my ex I felt on top of the world. It’s what, I thought, attracted him to me. And now here he is gone and I am a basket case.
The parts that I am having a hard time with are setting boundaries and not blaming myself.
I thought I was setting boundaries. I have read your posts on women who talk too much… but I felt I was being proactive and calmly stating my needs. So how do you set boundaries without being aggressive and demanding? When my ex would do something that bothered me I would state it, or simply remove myself from the situation so as not to argue, but realized I have been going from aggressive to passive aggressive. So if, for example, this person cancels on meeting your friends for the 3rd time in a row… what do you say? I said it was unacceptable… should I have actually just left?
My ex tells me I lecture and argue all the time and that this was not a life he wanted. I am having a hard time (the blame part) letting go of that because I can see myself this way… but also feel he is managing to turn things around to take the blame off of him. I question some days that because I am not happy, that I was not happy with him because of me, not because there was anything wrong with him. I can see a lot of good in him, and yet your comments on negativity also make me wonder if it was he who brought me down. I was really in a good place when I met him, busy, confident, happy with my life. So is it possible that it was his attitude that brought me down and that I am actually growing by being able to recognize that and to have spoken up?
I know this for sure, I need to figure out where I end and the next person begins so I can say with certainty what was me. The blame part, I think, stems from this inability to have your boundaries and know what of your behaviour you are ok with, and know is you, and what part you can start to see as being a negative reaction to someone else’s poor behaviour.
I figure with my ex… there are a number of people who express a dislike of him, who have seen his nasty temper, his exes similarly have stated they just knew they didnt’ feel that happy with him… so it gives me some confidence to say this was not all me!
My fear is that no relationship is going to make me happy… that it isn’t about finding myself with these poor men, but that I am finding good men and mucking it up.
Thanks to everyone on there for their posts. IT’s so funny to see some of the same behaviour and it makes me feel less crazy.
Kim
on 13/07/2009 at 2:35 pm
Hi everyone. I’m not sure if anyone is still commenting on this post but I really need some advice. For the past 2 months I have been dating a man who after 3 days of being with me told me he was falling in love with me. I admit it did concern me a bit but I brushed it off as just infatuation on his part so soon in the relationship. His wife had died from cancer 4 years ago and he spent the last 3 1/2 years alone. Prior to meeting me he claimed that he dated only 3 people and that none of these 3 women were able to deal with that fact that he lost if wife. He claims they told him that he could never love anyone the way he loved is wife and they didn’t want to be “second” in his hear or be compared to her. He did tell me at first that he was divorced but then came clean about a week later about it… by the way. He has issues with his family, claiming that they don’t want him around and they treat him terribly. Anyway, after about a month or so, he kept saying that he loved me more than anyone he ever met in his life (even more than his wife) and he wanted to spend the rest of this life with me. I said that I cared for him deeply and that enjoyed spending time with him and getting to know him but I asked if we could slow things down just a bit. He stated that he didn’t have time for a casual relationship and if that was what I wanted, then I needed to find someone else. Also, he’s stated on several occasions that he needs to be his girlfriend’s “best friend” and that she should come to him first regarding anything to do with her life. I said that a “best friends” type of friendship develops over time and that it doesn’t just happen because one person says they love you and want to marry you. I explained that if he cared so much for me, then he should be willing to be patient and let this grow and develop. Now he’s making comments that sound like he wants to control what I do. He ridicules me because I don’t seem to do anything but work and come home but I explained to him that I spend every evening and weekend with him so there isn’t any time for me to do anything else. Now for the past 2 days he keeps telling me that I don’t want to be with him anymore and that I should find someone else that treats me better. Is this a classic case of an EUM or someone with other emotional problems.
Also, he has told me that if he asks me 20 times a day do I love him, then I should tell him 20 times a day just to reassure him. I’m sorry, but that doesn’t sound normal.
Please give me some advice as to what to do… I’m really having a hard time with this….
DazedandConfused
on 13/07/2009 at 3:04 pm
Kim… Trust your gut. I think you know this is not normal behaviour. You came on here and asked for advice because you know it seems odd. Bottom line you are absolutely right, someone who truly cares for you and thinks you are the love of their life would be patient with you and appreciate the way you live your life. They do not ridicule you, and would be willing to see the relationship grow. If you are the love of your life, but don’t want to go at his pace, would it make sense that he would leave you or threaten to leave you so that he could go find someone else?
It is a red flag to me when people seem to fall in love with you instantly. It’s sad because so many of us are caught up in this fantasy, but normal people who are looking for long term commitment recognize that this takes time to grow. sure we all get giddy at the get go… but we don’t confess our love for someone in a week.
IT’s up to you how you deal with this, but I hope you know that you are not alone in thinking this behaviour sounds a bit odd. Take the space you need and if this man truly loves you, he will stand by your decisions.
Kim
on 13/07/2009 at 3:22 pm
Thank you. He’s always saying that I’m going to dump him or that I’ve already found a new boyfriend or whatever. I can’t even get him to listen to what I say or hear what I’m saying. He keeps saying that if he hadn’t told me he loved me and wanted to marry me so quickly that we wouldn’t be having these problems and I would want to be with him?!?!?. I tell him that I want to work on building a relationship and that there is no problem with us taking our time. He continues to say that I don’t feel the same way about him or that I don’t appreciate him. I really don’t know what to do…. everyone suggests I should just leave him alone and let him figure out what to do, but then the text messages come that say “Well, I guess you’ve already found someone else'” and ” I’ guess you don’t want me.” He’s trying to turn this around me, but honestly wanting to move slowly isn’t a bad thing. I’m damned if I do contact him because he doesn’t believe me and I’m damned if I don’t because then he thinks i have moved on. Can this be his way of just trying to end a relationship without having to say it? I realize that I can end this, but it sure seems like a lot of work to keep playing games with someone rather then just be upfront. He has admitted he’s insecure and everyone has taken advantage of him in the past and he has trust issues. I just don’t get it… is he beyond anything that I can do for him?
not meant to be
on 13/07/2009 at 3:34 pm
Kim,
I agree with DazedandConfused that his behaviour is odd. I am not a psychologist, but I have worked in health care, and it sounds to me like he needs counselling to work on his own self esteem issues. Are you prepared to act as his therapist? It sounds like a relationship with him would be “all about him” and so where does that leave your needs or chance for personal happiness?
Best of luck with your decision.
Anusha
on 13/07/2009 at 4:28 pm
I have a question,often NML says that we have bad believes about ourselves,love and relationships.I can identify my believes about myself like Im not atractive enough,no guy will want to be with me,I will always be rejected and so on but I cant do the same about love and relationship.Anybody can give me a example of a bad believe about love and relationship that we might have for me to fully understand it?
Kim the phrase ‘he’s a bit like an Emotional Vampire’ is one that I used to describe my EUM early on in our relationship – unfortunately I didn’t really understand how accurate that was until 4 years later,I’m now struggling to let go of my involvement with him.
The others are right, your gut is telling you that his behaviour is not normal and to me it indicates a big black hole of need that you could spend the rest of your life trying to fill and will never succeed, and it will drain the life out of you in the process.
I would trust your gut and withdraw – before you get sucked in too deep. I’m sure many of us here felt the tug of a ‘broken’ man and felt that we could be the ones to break through their pain, but the fact that we’re reading this indicates that it didn’t work. Good luck.
Karen
on 13/07/2009 at 4:59 pm
Hi Anusha
Some of the negative beliefs that you have about yourself fall into negative beliefs about love and relationships as well because they are not indepedant of each other. The way you feel about yourself is a direct reflection of the types of relationships and the kind of love that you encounter. Having the negative belief that you are not attractive enough will for example, draw to you situations where you may find yourself being overly jealous for example. Your partner may be speaking to an attractive woman lets say about work, but because you have a belief that you are not attractive enough, you will automatically perceive this woman as a threat to you and your relationship. Depending on how real and deep that belief is to you, it may cause problems in your relationship where perhaps you don’t want your partner even looking or talking to other women period out of fear that he may find them more attractive than you.
An example of negative beliefs about relationships would be:
Men only want me for Sex.
I will always be cheated on
Men cannot be trusted
Relationships are tooo hard
If i am in relationship, I have to give up all of my other interests
A negative belief about love could be:
I have to work real hard in order to be loved
If I want someone to love me, I have to sacrfice myself for them
Love has to hurt, otherwise its not really love
Love means that it’s ok for the person that I am with to disrespect me sometimes
If someone really loves me, they will want to be with me 24/7
There could be many and in many different combinations. Always remember that whatever negative beliefs you have about yourself will only be magnified more in relationships. That is why it is important to be aware of what our negative beliefs are about ourselves, love or relationships and work on turning them into more positive one’s.
PlanetJane
on 13/07/2009 at 7:27 pm
Hey everybody,
I’m kinda hatin it right now. So…I was on 2 weeks NC – which I still consider myself on, cuz I didn’t actually talk to him, but I kiiiiinda broke it.
I was out Sat night, and drinking with some old friends from out of town, and I called him at around 11 – but quickly got scared – and hung up after about half-a-ring, but my name is probably on his caller id. I was drunk. It was dumb. Damn.
It didn’t really mean that much to me, cuz it could have been a mis-dial, but now I kinda feel like a tard cuz it could seem like I’m playing games. When really, I was drunk and emotional and felt like I wanted to talk to him (I haven’t called him back since I found out he’s sleeping with a friend) – but then realized it wasn’t the right time or place, and that I wasn’t ready.
And, of course, he didn’t call me back. I’m relieved on the one hand cuz I don’t want to/am not ready to talk to him. But I feel rejected too. The usual I guess 😉 He probably knew we were out drinking – I was with his sister, and his new girl was invited but hmmm, she didn’t show her face.
It’s just so hard to deal with the conflicting desires of wanting him so much and wanting contact – on a very emotional level – and yet knowing that I need to, that I have to move on.
I feel that because we’re connected through friendships and family (small town) that eventually I have to reach out and make peace with him. I feel the burden on me to forgive so that everyone can move on and be happy. Or maybe it’s just an excuse to keep believing in a possibility of an “us” in the future. Or maybe I do not to forgive, so that I can move on and be happy. God this is tough! I’m soooo conflicted. Thanks for listening/reading. I needed to vent. Any advice?
not meant to be
on 13/07/2009 at 8:41 pm
Planet Jane
Wow, I’m sorry you feel you kinda blew it after you were doing so well with 2 weeks NC. BUT, I think there is a big positive here in that even though you say you were drunk, you got “scared†after you dialled his number and hung up! Good for you!!! You were listening to your gut even tho you were “under the influenceâ€.
I don’t think you need to worry your EUM will think you were playing games – my EUM would almost certainly assume a misdial, but then I suppose when we are on NC we are supposed to try NOT to care what they think, right? I almost feel tempted to unblock my EUM on messenger, so he can see I am online and ignoring, but I think THAT would be childish of me and truly playing games!
And I just wanted you to know that I can fully relate to the complications of having other ties with your EUM. My EUM is my brother’s supervisor, and I would HATE for there to be any negative implications for my brother, who has no idea whatsoever about our relationship. I have thought of trying to smooth things over with my EUN for that very reason, but I think it would not be productive for my own happiness to do that. Why do we get ourselves involved in such complicated webs of drama? Not sure if that helped, but know I’m right there with you in these complex situations. Stay strong planet Jane, and get right back on the NC train!!! Like I think you told me before, we can do this!!!
PlanetJane
on 13/07/2009 at 9:48 pm
Thank you notmeanttobe for the feedback. It definitely helped me to gain a more calm, outside perspective!
I realize that all I’ve managed to do, by semi-contacting him, is to engage myself in the drama again. It’s all me! Joy 🙂
Ughhhhh.
Hmmmm. Yeah, I’d say better to leave him blocked. Less to think about.
PlanetJane
on 13/07/2009 at 9:51 pm
“I have thought of trying to smooth things over with my EUM for that very reason, but I think it would not be productive for my own happiness to do that.”
Notmeanttobe,
You are right…bottom line. Ultimately we don’t OWE them anything. We don’t owe them peace of mind, and everyone playing nice. NC is not a way to get even, or an aggressive, angry move. It is a means of moving on. I have to remind myself.
PlanetJane
on 13/07/2009 at 10:02 pm
Just checked my cell owner’s manual, and the call to my eum didn’t connect! Meaning I’m not on his caller id. Yay! I got lucky.
not meant to be
on 13/07/2009 at 10:24 pm
PlanetJane,
Yes, yay, you are lucky – still on “real” NC as far as he’s concerned, and you can forgive urself for the slip – just be prepared next time when you go clubbing!
Meanwhile, my EUM just emailed a really nice email, but about HE feels about this break-up. I told him ;no contact” but he apologized for taking so long to email!!!!
Have I broken NC as I read the email?
lisa
on 13/07/2009 at 10:58 pm
Not meant to be and Planet Jane, I’ve been there, most of us have…. try not to call when you’ve been drinking! 🙂 Sit on your hands, call a friend, write a book…. anything but calling! (easier said than done… I called the guy several times after drinking. That was actually when I usually broke the no contact, so I stopped drinking for quite awhile, and it helped)
Yes, you broke no contact by reading the e-mail, but so what. Don’t beat yourself up or anything like that, just try not to respond unless you think that by you responding, he’ll be nice or different or will have changed. I just don’t want either of you two to stay in the cycle of hoping for more from them, but still getting crumbs.
I do believe that some healthy guys, if they really soul search, can change, but AC’s and EUM’s aren’t normal, and I don’t think they ever really change. Only you know which type of man you’re dealing with.
Just my two cents. You both are really on the right path and it is awesome that you are going through it at the same time so you can encourage each other.
Even if you go back or struggle with no contact, coming back to this web-site will help you continue to think clearly with great advice from lots of people who have been through it!
not meant to be
on 13/07/2009 at 11:00 pm
oops, I meant …but about how HE feels…
and thanking me for sharing a part of my life (even though he said he didn’t see a committed future for us – suggested maybe in the next life we can find each other earlier)…and saying how wonderful I am….and how he wants to be lifelong friends…..and that his arms miss me….
HELP!
not meant to be
on 13/07/2009 at 11:02 pm
lisa
Thanks for your answer! I am going to sit on my hands now….I am NOT responding!!!
PlanetJane
on 13/07/2009 at 11:03 pm
Mmm, I don’t think you’ve broken NC just by reading, but I AM another FBG 😉 As long as you don’t let what he wrote cause you to entertain thoughts that he may still love, want or be interested in you.
Nice he tried to communicate.
PlanetJane
on 13/07/2009 at 11:06 pm
Oh nevermind…not very nice! Sounds like he’s trying to suck you back in. Delete that email. Don’t respond. Cry, take a bath, go for a walk, say goodbye. 🙁 So sorry.
not meant to be
on 13/07/2009 at 11:40 pm
@lisa,
One more thing,
I asked you a question back under July 11, 5:21pm that I would like you to answer, if you don’t mind:
You said:
“(he)..has a lovely (or not so lovely) wife at home who he goes home to, eats dinner with, watches t.v. with, does yardwork, has sex, etc… all kinds of things. And they’ll tell you they don’t do those things, but they do!”
and I said/asked:
“He told me they hadn’t had sex for years, and when I told him I had trouble believing that he suggested that I phone her and ask her! That was part of the reason I became “intimate†with him – I felt sorry for him that his wife had refused him for years. He certainly didn’t seem out of practice, though (OK, can’t stay on *that* train of thought…). Do you really think they all do have sex with their wives, and just lie, lie, lie?”
so…what do you think? I know every case is different, and you don’t know my particular EUM/AC but do you think he could have been lying to me? Not sure why this is so important to me, but just trying to make sense of this whole mess, and to understand if I am just too gullible…
Thanks
lisa
on 14/07/2009 at 12:12 am
Wow, well, not meant to be…. Yeah, I think they lie.
But, I don’t know your guy personally.
Try to think logically. Why would a guy stay with his wife if they did absolutely nothing together and never had sex?
For me, I found out by having contact with the wife, and maybe you should have given her a call just to see what he was telling her. If he lies to her about you, you can be pretty sure he lies to you about her, you know? IT all SUCKS!
When the guy’s wife found out, by looking at the cell phone bill, he asked me to lay low for awhile and he would talk to her about when he was going to move out, but what he actually told her was that he broke things off with me and that I was out of the picture, and then he continued to snow us both that way for about a year until I finally figured out that he was lying. There is more to it than that, but I was naive and wanted to believe that he wasn’t staying with his wife. She let me know that things were normal at their house, they slept together, vacationed together, shopped together and made meals together, etc… and of course they did. I only saw him on the weekends where he had a few hours of time. Yikes! And he really did try to convince me that he loved me during all that time.
I don’t like thinking about it anymore because I was stupid, and I have to stay focused and remember that I forgave myself and I asked his wife to forgive me to (even though I felt like her husband should have been the one to ask for forgiveness). She told me to f off. (and he still tried to contact me)
The further I get from it, the happier I am and I’m actually thankful for the whole experience because I learned so much about what I never want to do or be a part of again.
I hope this answers a little bit. I’m going to get off this site for a bit because I’m thinking too much about it and it hurts a little.
Well, I don’t know what to tell you, and I hope maybe it is different for you, and it sounds like you weren’t expecting him to leave her or anything like that, so at least he didn’t “go there” lying to you.
Keep plugging away at it, you’ll figure out what you really want and need in your life, and it seems like HE is not it.
not meant to be
on 14/07/2009 at 12:22 am
lisa
thanks so much yet again, and so sorry if it caused pain for you to go back there in your mind. You have been so helpful for me to get wise to all my EUM’s bs.
You’re right, I do not need him in my life, and I hope I get to the point that you are at now – away. and tho he never came right out and said he was leaving his wife, he still kept me hooked with … I’m not leaving her “right now” but who knows what the future might bring. I only ever wanted him to love me like I loved him.
I know I can’t bank on crumbs and vague non-promises.
I hope you find happiness and peace lisa, and thank you so much once again – your comments have truly been helpful
Brad K.
on 14/07/2009 at 2:41 am
Anusha,
You asked about negative beliefs. You said you could understand self-beliefs like “Im not atractive enough,no guy will want to be with me,I will always be rejected and so on”.
There are many ways to be attractive. Joyful, competent, self assured, secure – these are things that everyone can accomplish, and hold onto for life. Competing with busty 24 or 26 year old beer commercial idols – that can be achieved by the few, and won’t last long. Anyone that the TV model catches – will be looking for another one when the shine wears off.
Someone that appreciates a joyful, competent woman – there is no artificial shine to worry about. When you do something worthwhile, when you know you are good at what you do, when you know you are working to be even better – then looks become mere grooming out of courtesy and respect. And looks won’t become a “Dang, if only I was a little more attractive, I could out-bimbo *that* girl, too. This time.” kind of lifestyle.
Security, according to Judge Judy, is where self esteem comes from. The security that you know you have worth, and what you are worth. Then, when you run across a guy that understands your worth, too – you know that he is worth a try. Simple boundaries would tell you to avoid anyone that doesn’t respect you or your worth.
As for always being reject, I imagine a lot of that is not being prepared – that is, knowing joy and fulfillment in your life at the time you enter a relationship, and because your pick of guy is related to your belief that no one (of any worth?) would want you. So you would find guys that won’t want to stay with you, the emotionally unavailable, the assclown – the perpetual daters.
Without knowing you I can’t say what would be the most helpful. From my own perspective, I would say nail down simple, basic hygiene, a neat and clean appearance, and never consider again whether you are attractive. Well, you might work on a smile. A smile should be all the “attractive” any woman needs. And maybe karate or kickboxing. Just knowing you can kick any bozo’s ass, or at least make him work for it, will do wonders for how one looks at life. Or T’ai Chi, or Yoga – these spirit and body programs help de-stress and focus on you and what is going on within. Yoga claims to help improve strength, agility, and manage pain. Start with a good class with an instructor recommended by trusted friends.
And look for the guys that are *not* chasing skirts. Find the guy your neighbor knows that works and isn’t involved with anyone – and is respected by friends or neighbors. You will likely have to be a friend first, but you won’t likely be surprised with an unannounced wife, or find him chasing skirts at every bar in town.
You are unhappy with the rules you have been playing by. Imagine yourself being happy, and see if the rules to that *happy* game aren’t more fun.
Luck!
Brad K.’s last blog post..Book: Judge Judy gets tough on romance
Anusha
on 15/07/2009 at 5:15 pm
Thank you Karen and Brad for your answer to my post 🙂 When I said I always been rejected is that I used to fall for guys that didnt love me over and over again.I did that for 3 or 4 years.I think that helped to create my believe that no guy would want to have a relationship with me.Than my ex came and he did wanted to have a relationship with me and said he loved me(even though he didnt act like it and as I found out later he was EU).I think that is why I clinged to him so much and even though I wasnt getting what I wanted from the relationship and was unhappy,I stayed for years.Im trying to change that on myself and keep saying to myself that Im atractive,reminding me of my good traits and so on and hopefuly I will change that believe.
TJ
on 15/07/2009 at 7:20 pm
BTW– Thanks for the advice on my problem. The AC had indeed said some twisted things to my manager. I actually turned in a resignation because was just sick of the atmosphere.That gave me the chance to explain what “really” happened. My manager asked me to stay. He said I should NOT run away and said running away from a bully would only hurt me. He assured me the AC would not pull any more stunts. I know my manager realizes I’m much more valuable than the AC simply because of who I am and what I bring to the table– my warm, outgoing, friendly, smiling attitude is extremely important to the business. My manager asked if I could just forgive the AC in my heart and move on.
It’s funny, when he said “move on” it hurt. Even knowing what I know, it still hurts to comprehend the finality of “move on.” I’m sad that the AC is, as he fully admits, so full of fear and pain… and rather than build a connection, he slammed me out.
Magenta
on 08/09/2009 at 1:50 pm
OMG…Bang on! Thank you for that! In sharing your experiences, I felt like I was reading about me!
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All I know is that this takes time and effort and willingness and time and effort and more willingness and then your mind set shifts and your behaviors shift, and gradually with yet more time and effort that doesn’t feel like effort anymore, you HAVE boundaries, you have more happiness than you have hurt, and you have the self-respect and self-esteem and self-confidence that were just words before – and now nobody can take that/them knowing away from you.
Time and effort and really looking for the answers and doing the things that support you compred to doing the things that don’t and then beating yourself up for them but not changing them.
When a man doesn’t make you happy, it’s because you are still more comfortable being UNHAPPY, and so he’s your perfect mirror.
It isn’t about him – he’s just a learning tool. It’s about you and what you are willing to do to BE happy.
Do your inner work.
Face the illusions and habit patterns that have kept you stuck.
Do your inner work…
I had years of pain based on incorrect assumptions and reading too many fairy tales when I was young and believing them. I hated me and kept reinforcing it by picking men who didn’t love me or continue to love me and I wouldn’t let go of the “but” daydream.
Now life is safe and protected and good. I LIKE ME. If I can do it, anybody can. You can. YOU CAN.
Loving Annie’s last blog post..Questions And Answers
I made the EUM in my life my goal – to make him (just like you said) love me and appreciate me and change.
It’s taken a long time to get here and it’s taken it’s toll on me. I honestly dont know who I am anymore. An example is that after 2 solid weeks of NC after what I felt was finally the end, I am laying in bed and think this … “I am a mother! I have children!” I swear, it was like I’d forgotten.
I’m putting myself back together again and am trying to learn to love myself because I finally see that is the only way I will feel happiness. I now trust myself enough to know that I have made the right decision and have cut this toxic man out of my life forever.
I wish Peace and Happiness for all of us here.
I feel like I am caught in a nowhere land right now…I have long term goals for my life and education but its the short term ones that evade me…after a while home repairs, reading, journaling and the like just don’t seem to well, fill the time I used to fill with my EUM…I have a job I love, teenagers at home, but well, just don’t know what to do now….and during that “empty time” is when I am thinking about him…what could have been…and all that nonsense…
I would love some suggestions!
Thanks!
Interesting…I was on my happy track, doing my thing, feeling good…then I met the AC. I think it’s possible I let him derail me for a time, because I know that during the time he was in my life, I felt a “false happy”. The sense of contentment I previously felt was replaced with a weird kind of anxiety that initially felt exciting but later began to drag me down.
Though I was very distraught our “friendship” ended, I have to say it’s been a relief. I got back into my work in a HUGE way and am pulling off an amazing project. I think my outward indifference to AC and my upcoming success has made the AC angry: the confident, pretty, successful, loving woman HE REJECTED has no use for him now!
“People who don’t like and love themselves have behaviour and ‘vibes’ that mirror these things and people like assclowns and Mr Unavailable’s are drawn to you because they are more likely to get away with their poor behaviour with you because of your insecurity.”
Yes, he seemed weirdly PLEASED with his bad behavior– as though he was “winning” by acting like a jerk. “I can be a jerk and you still like me, therefore you’re not so hot”
Best advice: Find something that interests you. When I got involved in a big project, I literally had no time to dwell on the AC. I think the project “saved me”.. it enabled me to succeed after feeling like I had “failed” with him
This is my first time posting here, although I have been reading for a few weeks now, and have found this site a God-send. I have been involved with what I now realize is a married AC for a little over a year. I can relate to much of what you have written here NML. I have made a satisfying relationship with this EUM a goal, and in doing so have isolated myself from friends and family as none of them know I am involved with him and this “illusion†of a relationship. I spend a lot of time checking for emails from him, and seeing if he goes online so I can IM him. I think I am in denial about what I really need to be happy, and have been content to receive the crumbs he throws me, even though I am frustrated as I would like more than these “fleeting highs†as NML calls them. I do realize that we are going outside of the norms of society in having an illicit “relationship†and I take full responsibility for that and I’m ashamed and embarrassed by it.
As a bit of a background, I have known him for 2 years. We are both in our 40’s, are in the same line of work, and see each other at conferences (which we both help to plan and facilitate) 3 times per year. He also works directly with a family member of mine, in a supervisory position. Our relationship became physical a little over a year ago at one of the conferences. We don’t live in the same city, so we also meet sometimes in a town half way between us. The first 3 months or so, he was very attentive through email and IMing (at least as attentive as he could be since he’s married) but then the communication started to drop off as he says he’s “busy, busy, busy†at work. He does say he has strong feelings for me, but doesn’t often say much more than that as he “has trouble expressing his feelings, except in a physical way†to quote him. He lost a parent at a young age, and seems to still feel affected by this, and says he is “fragile†and does not like ending relationships.
To move along here, I have tried to break things off with him twice before – once last September and again in December, but I agreed to stay “friends†both times (as I couldn’t bear not to have him in my life – too many tears), and we ended back being physical. By the way, he is very skilled and giving in that department. After reading several posts on this site, I have decided to end things with him once and for all. I am going to call him tomorrow, and I intend to tell him this isn’t working for me anymore and I want to end things with him. I do think he may try to ask for friendship again, and I want to say no this time, but I am worried about the implications for my family member who works with him – I would hate it to affect that job. I know I will be happier without having to constantly wait for crumbs, or to ask him in vain what I mean to him (besides physically). To prepare for the NC afterwards, I have written out a list of things he has done to hurt/disappoint me (over 30 of them), and have some vacation activities planned with friends from work next week. Any advice on how to move on from this situation so I reclaim my own needs and happiness would be much appreciated. Thanks much.
NML wrote, “I decided that I didn’t want to pretend anymore. That I would acknowledge how I felt whether that was about myself, another person, or something because my feelings were valid and the pretence was literally eating me up.”
One of the things that keeps me in NC is that I just can’t be real with my eum, but I just can’t keep my feelings contained anymore. He just isn’t someone I trust sharing my feelings with. He will either belittle me, and relegate me to the psycho-b*tch category of the women in his past who were actually honest with him before they told him to beat-it, or he’ll feign empathy and remorse and lie to me to try and get me back on his side and in his bed. There is really no other place for me in his life. My own place is out of his life!
and
“Stop worrying about what the hell he (or anyone else for that matter) wants and start considering your own needs.”
Thank you for that! I so need it. I feel so much like I OWE him my “friendship” and it’s kept me in his web for far too long. He’s always going on and on about how my friendship is SO important to him, and always laying on the guilt. I’m 2 weeks NC and everyday I wonder if maybe the decent thing to do would be to call him back and try and have an adult, friendly conversation. I feel like I’ve destroyed the friendship because I want…because I want more from him, and that’s not his fault, poor guy, it’s mine. He always seems to be losing female friends, and he just can’t understand why.
It hurts a lot, but I will stick it out this time.
Thanks NML for your post. Such great information. I will keep it under my pillow 🙂
Great great post 🙂
Notmeantobe…A way to do this would be for you to tell hom gently that you need six months of no contact so you can gt your life back on track, then you will see how you feel as to whether it feels right to contact him and maybe begin a friendshop (tht sometimes is not enought time but i’t a beginning 🙂 It will mean absolutely no contact on eeither side if he cares about you and your happiness he should take his and allow you to grieve and move on. Strength to you, it’s gonna be tough but honest it is sooo worth it, you are worth it. The longer you put this momnet off the longer your pain and turmnoil will be with you.
peace
Deb
Sorry spelling all over the place, was rushing and didn’t read before posting 🙂
This writer has amazing insights into relationships
This site has helped me a great deal and really opened my eyes concerning my behaviours in my relationship. i have very recently left a bad yo-yo relationship. reading these articles have been very helpful and helped me to stay focussed. I know that i need to learn to love myself and find happiness within myself instead of chasing the emotionally unavilable man. thank you
The light bulb turned on with NML’s last post…. What do you truly want?
I did a great deal of searching for that answer since then which led me to my own unresolved relationship with my father. I realized I chase bad love because I chased love from my own Dad who never really seemed to care to know me deeply. I came to the conclusion that I had a mediocre Dad and that if, as a kid, I would have had a choice to trade him in I would have. I would have traded my dad for a loving, affectionate, caring, interested, consistant, smart, funny, playful Dad. Thats what I wanted. As an adult I accept my dad for the shallow person that he is. I now realize he did not have the capacity to love.
This led me to the assclown that I have been chasing for the same bad love, a real mediocre relationship. I finally realize that I have fallen in that same familiar trance I was in as a kid. I now realize that my assclown is just a shallow person who does not have the capacity to love. He was familiar to me, it felt like “home” at some point to have that life long albiet, painful relationship again. I realize I have the option to trade him for what I want a loving, affectionate, caring, interested, consistant, smart, funny, playful boyfriend and not live or miss a mediocre relationship. This time I am free to opt out or trade in. I am much more in tune to what I want and I no longer miss what I had. THANK YOU!
I dont want to be in the relationship insanity but even knowing that my ex isnt good for me I still fell that yearning for him.My rational side knows that I cant come back,I waited for him to change for 5 years and he didnt.So coming back would be just doing the same thing over again and expecting a diferent result but why even knowing all that I still fell that yearning? Lately had got worse and sometimes is so strong that I have to do a huge effort to resist,a few days ago I just realy felt like texting him saying I love him or that I miss him.Even though Im on NC with him for 10 weeks I fell Im still emotionaly conected with him trought that yearning.I think maybe the reason is strong lately can be because I miss being in a relationship and having a bf so I tried dating but it didnt work much well.I cant find a guy that is nice and when I did find one I wasnt much atracted to him.Is like either the guy is atractive or he is nice,I couldnt find one that is both.And yes I know the post says that I shouldnt make geting a man the principal focus of my life but I just realy wanted to have a good relationship.I have been trough bad ones after bad ones so I realy wanted one where I can be happy this time.
OMG what an amazing article. I avoided my feelings like the friggin’ plague and every single one that I avoided was just piled up (like you said). I don’t care to feel rejected but I’m certainly not “afraid” to feel rejected anymore. I feel it, deal with it and move on….
I spent a little time lately reverting back to old thought patterns because I ran into my ex-AC and discovered a new AC all in the same week. Lol The new guy was nice enough the first time we met but then he wanted to hook-up and rent a movie at his place for the 2nd date. I told him I wasn’t comfortable with that and perhaps we could spend time doing something else….he said “I’ll pass” and we said very short good-byes. My first reaction was to beat myself up for not recognizing he was a jerk in the first place but then realized….d*mn, I did pretty good setting the record straight early on =). The feeling of rejection was the real kicker though. I had to work hard to put myself back in place…and yes I cried it out for at least a day….but realized I wasn’t going to die from the pain. I would much rather feel the pain now and process it while it’s fresh instead of lying to myself about how I feel. Thanks NML for the amazing insight.
I just wanted to share my struggles with the ladies on this site. You keep me strong. Hugs to all!
hey well done metsgirl for realising what potential idiot that guy was. I have been in lots of similar situations and this website reallly helps to keep me strong. About a year ago my standards in men appeared to be limbo dancing under my bedroom door. I decided I couldn’t trust myself so thought I would pull back a bit. Since then, I have not chased men, but a few have given me their numbers. Out of all of these not one man has responded to my call. The old me would have texted and persisted but now I just delete the number and forget about them.
I have met a few men socially. One of them asked me out, then at the end of the night told me he had a girlfriend. My female friends were horrified when I just smiled and walked away from him. ‘ But he might have been breaking up with her’ So what? I dont want a man like that in my life. Its been hard this year- my best friend had a baby, my little sister got married, I’m the only single person my age out of all my friends. Sometimes it seems like society and well meaning friends would rather see me in a bad relationship than single. And I do fear that I will always be alone.
What keeps me going is this time last year- involved with two men neither who gave a crap about me. Yeh my friends and family were off my back and I had somebody on my arm, but deep down I felt a lot worse then than I do now. So dont give up, people. Enjoy the fact you can eat toast in bed and not shave your legs for six weeks!
I think an important note with feelings and getting to that happy state is to accept how you feel now and know that it is ok.
Most of the time we create more unhappiness in our lives because we think “I shouldn’t be feeling this way” and this spirals into a more depressive mode.
Acknowledging how you feel like ” hmmm I don’t feel that great today … and that’s ok” will allow you to deal with your emotions better.
Then you can start asking better quality questions like “what would need to happen in order for me to feel happy” or “what could I possibly be happy about today”.
When you ask better quality questions, you get better quality answers.
Hot Alpha Female
Hot Alpha Female’s last blog post..I Really Like Him – Now What?!
@De (or is it Deb?)
Thank you for your response. You are right, I have been living with pain and turmoil, and like Loving Annie said “I don’t want to hurt any moreâ€. I will try asking for the 6 month NC before considering being friends, if he does indeed ask to remain friends this time after I “break up†with him tomorrow over the phone. I will have to see him and work with him at a conference next month though, so that will be a challenge.
I feel badly because I had an IM chat with him a little while ago. He invited me out tonight – his wife is out for the evening apparently. I said I would love to go but had to decline, as I had other plans, so maybe another time. I feel badly making it seem that nothing is wrong, when tomorrow I plan to end it with him. I hope I have the strength to go through with this. He really is very sweet sometimes, and I know it will be difficult. I have to remember he doesn’t belong to me, he is EU since he is a MM, and being in a relationship with him cannot make me happy and could bring others a lot of pain.
@Rachel,
“I realized I chase bad love because I chased love from my own Dad who never really seemed to care to know me deeply.†and “it felt like “home†at some point to have that lifelong albeit, painful relationship again†– I can fully relate to these comments and feel it is part of the attraction to the MM for me.
Thank you everyone for sharing your stories here. I know this is going to be tough, but so many of you have been where I am now, and you have taken steps to let go of these dysfunctional relationships with EUM’s/AC’s/MM, and so you give me hope. Best of luck to all in your pursuit of true happiness!
I have just read a book that is a very good source for emotional healing and moving on: ‘Inner Abundance’ by Sarah Ban Breathnach.
I thought this book in line with the topic of this thread.
Ella
Ah NML, you’re great. This couldn’t be timed better for me personally, as it’s exactly where I am at.
Last night I was minding my own business when a friend – definitely one who’s drama on a stick – sent me a message along with a picture of his torso and expected me to listen to his relationship dramas. Not even a “hello” at first. I was extremely firm with him and said I was not getting into this with him, that I found such assumption offensive and he even said “Oh but you’re always there for me”. I think you can imagine, ladies, that I made it very clear that he didn’t have respect for me enough to consider whether my life was sufficiently important to just wander into and out of at will then he could expect significantly less importance in it.
“slap slap and slap me again” he says “but that’s ok, I like you a lot”. However he DID then message to say he realised that he had been thoughtless and that I had given him something to think about regarding his own behaviour and selfishness, and apologised.
He is EUM at the moment – had a horrible relationship with his wife and then straight into a rebound with someone loonytunes (claiming that she was setting him up with a text message “accidentally” sent to him to test his jealousy. Thing is for me he’s always known me whilst I was being FG for my former idiot.
He’s seeing the me that was there before that guy who had lots of backbone and spirit and that is great as an understanding for me to know she’s rising from the ashes 🙂
I am going to start therapy but to be honest NML I suspect your site will continue to be of absolute importance. Potentially a lot more use that therapy in fact!
NML you are without a doubt amazing. Ditto to what many people have said which is that this is the best site out there. You are extremely insightful and it has helped me personally (and many others). For me, this site has truly been better than therapy or any book or any other type of advice I have ever sought. I love what you say and how you say it so much that I even wrote to the OPRAH Winfrey show about you (Im in the states- but Im sure everyone knows who im talking about). I dont know if it will get anywhere (my email that is– LOL) but I really feel that your words, advice, messages etc… needs to be known and shared by many others because you are truly the BEST when it comes to this subject!!! Thank you so much for changing my life and the lives of many others and I truly hope you continue to blog about this!! 🙂
@ notmeanttobe
I have been in a two year on and off relationship with an EUM, and it has not been pretty. This time around, it’s been two months of no contact. I still think about him, want him around, wished he wanted me, but he doesn’t. He’s probably not thinking about me at all. Some of the things your EUM has said and done are the exact things that sooo many women on this site have experienced. You’ve probably heard his sob story a million times. The whole “I can only express myself physically” is a hallmark saying of many of these idiots. And, all these AC can be sweet sometimes; they have to be in order to keep you hooked, but it means less than s**t. You have no reason to be worried about his feelings. He’s gets to have the comfort of a marriage and also have a girl on the side to feed his ego and to alleviate the sameness of his days. Really, what are you getting out of this situation? Less than nothing. He’s selfish and awful. And, truthfully, do you really want to be in a relationship with someone who could betray his wife that way? Even if he did leave her and came to you, would you really want to be constantly worried that he was going to do the same to you? You’re selling yourself so much shorter than you deserve. And, as you may realize after reading this blog, your involvement with someone that is married signifies that you are unavailable in your own right. I would recommend you reading the Getting Past Your Past blog on wordpress and reading her book and reading Women Who Love to Much. These books really helped me. Good luck!
I just finished reading Robin Norwood’s classic Women Who Love too Much.She ends by saying that a support group is essential to women recovering from a struggle like many of us here can describe. This site has functioned as my support group, and it so great because it is not tied to any time or place and all are welcome.
Thanks NML and all who come here in good faith.
I left here a short time ago becasue i realized all my posting about him was keeping me tied to him and I really want out of the emotional connection. In the book Norwood also states that it is important that the support group not be a bitch session, meaning it cant be about the guys. This goes along so well with all of NML’s posts on bringing the focus back to us. Though, I think some bitching about the arseclown in the beginning is necessary and somehow comforting and even morbidly entertaining to many of us !
I am also in the middle of reading The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists, highly recommended if the EUM was your first weird experience with a person like this, and if you are seeking to understand and recover from your involvement with them. Part of that book explains how many epople suffer from wounds in childhood, and many of us develop coping strategies to avoid pain, that do not work so well for us later in life.
But here is what I want to share and how it relates. This latest series of posts did make me think on all that I want, and how I developed some f*cked up fantasy of what I thought I wanted with the EUM. Of course, the EUM is unwilling, and / or incapable of giving me what I really want, which is a kind honest respectful relationship. So I had to come up with this alternate fantasy reality of how it was OK with him on his terms and any day it would somehow magically and fantastically be different. And I let go of everything I wanted and turned all my worthy goals into just wanting him to come around. And I developed it all with my great capacity for fantasy to avoid reality.
The last part of NML’s above post ends with ” Let go”. Easier said than done, for me. I have been struggling with how to fully let go for the last few months of NC. NC has not been all that hard but obsessive thoughts and mini fantasies about the EUM still pop into my head daily, I think they are habits from fantasizing that the EUM will be coming around any day now, fantasies I have carried for the years I have known him.
I recently realized those obsessive thoughts, which are pure fantasy, need to be challenged.
Now, as they come into my head I challenge them every single time, right away, by repeating ” __________(His full given name)…is not interested in working with me.” Some time I say knowing me, sometimes I say loving me as I want to be loved. Sometimes I say “at this time”, leaving room for some weird future where he may truly be different. And, rest assured, I will most certainly know the difference.
It does not matter the words, but it matters to me that I use his full name. and repeat till the thought of himgoes away. I am even starting to notice that sometimes the damn fantasy thinking comes on subconsciously, like a pleasant familiar dream, so I even call it sneaky when it comes in that way.
The important part is that I am retraining my belief system , away from the messed up belief system he helped me buy into with all his ambiguity.I think the ambiguity is what messed me up more than anything, Irrational behavior can be pretty damn confusing if you are not hip to it. I consider myself lots wiser about this sort of thing now.
I took up smoking again when I took up NC, and knew that was something else that tied in. So, I have also toady tried this same idea when the desire to smoke came up, actually saying to myself…” smoking is bad for me ” ( Yeah sounds dumb…but remeber my capacity for fantasy is my childhood coping strategy
I like to reinforce telling me that smoking is bad for me with an image of the cloud of smoke going into my lungs and leaving its mark on them. Yes, in my own head I had come to half believe that I would be exempt from any ill effects of smoking. Today for the first day in weeks I have not smoked, nor wanted to smoke every time the desire has come up.
Whew, long winded, hopefully kinda clearly written. This is something that is working for me in my struggle to let go completely. I hope this can help somebody else in my support group
I have always believed it is only the truth does set you free. I needed to remember that and live it. I need to know my truth and always keep in on the forefront. Best wishes to all, thanks for being there.
@pinky Thanks. I know that AC’s will no longer find me attractive and that really does come as a tremendous compliment for me….I’m thinking you probably know what I mean since you’re experiencing some of the same things. So kudos to you! And keep it up…your worth it!
@Hot Alpha Female. I never use this term (but I’ve heard it used here) you’re “spot on” =). I know I had to start at that point before I ever noticed any kind of change in my thinking / emotions. I’m far from cured but my mind-set has done at least a 180′. Great advise!
Can someone advise?
The AC is/has been twisting everything around and telling my manager (via a flurry of emails that I learned have gone through the main office, not the manager’s private email) that I am psychotic, needy, unwilling to leave him alone, stalking, etc. I know this because my manager called me and said (repeated) some exact words that the AC has said to me. My manager is a man about the same age as the AC and AC is a skilled, manipulative liar. I haven’t had any interaction with the AC for months but last week I slipped up and told he him was an asshole. At first my manager supported me, but AC waged a war against me.
I’ve got a big project coming to a close next week and I have a feeling that afterward I’m going to be demoted or fired. I was also told that “everyone likes him” and “things” have to “cool off”– and in a couple of weeks we’ll revisit the issue (my project ends in 10 days and I’m the key lead on it)
As I mentioned, the AC took everything about me- my warm, loving nature, my friendliness, etc and twisted “me” into this pathetic person. Ever since I began ignoring him months ago, I think he’s been trying to take back “control” and “win”.
That’s the thing– I have been ignoring him, taken the lead on this project, succeeding, feeling happy, etc. until I slipped up last week.
After being told to “LEAVE HIM ALONE” (as though I’ve been pursuing him!!!) I showed up yesterday to a very chilly environment
People are looking at me funnily. People are staring at me. If I’m my friendly self, I feel people are now hesitant to interact. II don’t have proof but it’s like I’ve been tarred and feathered as a mental case.
Any ideas?
Do I explain that the AC is psychologically troubled, on medication, etc. etc.– or what? Or is that digging my own grave?
TJ:
Do you have a Human Resources Dept at your job?
Did the manager ask your AC to please refrain from sending those types of emails to “the main office” and that he needs to direct them to him directly and not involve any one else? Your manager needs to follow professional protocol to protect BOTH you and your AC not just your AC! Your AC could be claiming that he is being “harrassed/stalked” whatever, but you in essence can easily file a claim against the company itself for not having handled the matter professionally and accordingly until all facts were collected. This is the same as in anything.. you are INNOCENT until proven Guilty.
Can you please explain further what you mean by “At first my manager supported me, but AC waged a war against me.”?
Why did your manager stop supporting you? What directions (if any) have you been given from your manager? Has he said that you need to stay away from your AC? What does he mean when he says: “things have to cool off” and to “leave him alone”?
For now I would first start with something in writing from your end to your manager rebutting these allegations. It could be something like:
Per our conversation the other day regarding (your AC’s name) While I appreciate you bringing this matter to my attention, I would like to first request that you ask (AC) to direct any and all complaints about me to you directly and not to include any of the other staff. I have taken this matter seriously and expect the same in return from my employer. I would also like to add that this is also an official written denial about what (AC) is alleging that I am doing. At this time, I would like an official review of the matter as I feel my job/position is in jeopordy and I do not feel that it is warranted. For the record, his allegations are false and I would like to discuss this matter further and an opportunity to defend myself and my stance.
That way its in writing, you are covering yourself and you are to an extent, making it official while stating in writing that you are denying what he is saying that you are doing. Your manager will need to comply with your request as you are still employed at this company and as I mentioned, he needs to protect you as well until this matter has been cleared. If nothing occurs within a limited amount of time you will have to find someone else to escalate this to and bring the email that you wrote with you!
It cannot be one way no matter how much your AC is liked. Remain cool, calm and collected and by all means… do not talk or interact with your AC at this time. Do not give yourself the opportunity to say a word to him -especially a bad one as that could damage your stance in this whole matter!
I hope this helps. Keep us posted as to what happens and good luck!
PS: I would like to just add TJ that i am not a lawyer or anything.. just giving you my personal advice/opinion. 😉
@ Jupiter
Congratulations on 2 months of no contact. And thank you SOOOO much for your response. I read it about 15 minutes before my “I can’t do this anymore†phone call with my EUM/MM, and it really helped me (even though I was shaking when the phone rang). You said “You have no reason to be worried about his feelings.†And you were right – when I told him I couldn’t continue in the relationship, he just said “I understandâ€, and said we could take on a “new role†as just colleagues – he didn’t even ask to be friends this time. I told him (as De suggested) that I couldn’t communicate with him for a while, that I had to grieve our relationship and he just went quiet and then finally said “me tooâ€. He then asked if we could still hang out at conferences, and have a few drinks, and then I paused and asked him straight out if I had just been a “___ buddy†to him and he just said “no, it was more than that, it was nice to get to know you.†And “You knew I couldn’t commit to you anyway, but if circumstances were different, I would have committed to you†What does that mean????? Overall it was a bit of a letdown as I geared myself up for more resistance than this to us ending. I guess he did me a favour.
Jupiter, you asked “Even if he did leave her and came to you, would you really want to be constantly worried that he was going to do the same to you?†and I can answer that with No, No, No – I have worried already that he may have had others on the side with his cavalier (?right word?) attitude. His parting words were “see you at the conference (in August, that we’ll both be at), if not beforeâ€. So I ended the call feeling relieved, confused, 10 lbs lighter, and somewhat empty. I thought I would be a mess, and not able to return to work after my break (when we had the call) but so far I have been fine. I interacted with some colleagues and already felt my smile was more “genuine†because I am not in that immoral relationship any more.
I know I have rough days ahead, and tomorrow will be day 1 of NC for me. I feel I have finally set a boundary with my EUM, and taken a small step towards my own personal happiness having *let go* of this dysfunctional relationship. I will try reading the “Women Who Love Too Much†book too (thanks for the suggestion Jupiter and aphrogirl) – funny, I think I saw my mum reading that book several years ago…
@aphrogirl
“__my EUM…is not interested in …loving me as I want to be loved.†Thank you for this – I will keep that in mind in the days ahead.
Thank you again everyone for the insight and support. I hope I can return the favour one day in some way.
TJ,
“The AC is/has been twisting everything around and telling my manager (via a flurry of emails that I learned have gone through the main office, not the manager’s private email) that I am psychotic, needy, unwilling to leave him alone, stalking, etc. I know this because my manager called me and said (repeated) some exact words that the AC has said to me.”
Don;t know where you work, but in the US, in a large company, calling someone else a psychotic stalker, ( who is not stalking them) and talking about them in general would be considered hearsay at best, would not hold up under any kind of scrutiny and would certainly not be grounds for firing. Most of this he said she said stuff goes to HR and people do not get fired except for clear infraction of established policy. Most times a warning comes first. Of course, I assume the people in question are doing good work that is profitable to the company.
IF you are in a small company with no protection or policy your only recourse is to assert there is no proof of his allegations. If it comes down to talking about him, you will have to decide how much you want to tell what you know. If you do so, stick with the facts, including missed romantic signals, and tell the truth. I sure would mention my suspicions that he was trying to sabotage me, but thats me, and I am self employed.
I’m in small biz, I do not expect well adjusted behavior all the time from everybody, but I do expect work to be well done regardless of personal struggles. Some companies put up with the worst behaviors because person X makes them a big profit. Not all biznesses always play by good ethics. Hopefully your does. Good luck.
To TJ
If this goes any further he will have to submit proof that you are doing these things that he says. It sounds like none of this alleged psychotic behavior from you occurs during working hours. You have a legal right to ask for a sit down meeting with you, him and the Human Resources manager and ask for direct evidence of such behavior, (ie. he would have to produce phone records, emails from you etc., which I doubt he will be able to do). If you are fired because of these allegations and they turn out to be unfounded, you have the legal option to sue not only him but the company you worked for. How do I know this? I am a lawyer.
best of luck.
notmeantobe, I wish you the best of luck with NC. Stick to it. It hurts, but you’ll feel a little bit more like your “old self” every day.
On the many occasions that I told my AC that I couldn’t do this anymore, his reaction was the same as your AC … the whole “i understand” and “you know it was more than that” crap.
it would tick me off that he was so cool about it and then i’d get upset and then I’d get right back into being with him. Made no sense.
ANYway, I’m on Day 17 of NC and he is staying away … and for the first time I am really glad that he is and not wishing he’d come creeping back. Rough days ahead, but we can do it.
On day 50 of NC I’m buying myself a new pair of shoes. 😛
“It would tick me off that he was so cool about it and then i’d get upset and then I’d get right back into being with him. Made no sense.
ANYway, I’m on Day 17 of NC and he is staying away … and for the first time I am really glad that he is and not wishing he’d come creeping back. Rough days ahead, but we can do it.
On day 50 of NC I’m buying myself a new pair of shoes.”
I’m right there with you guys. It’s been two weeks today for me! And I will not fall back into the pattern.
And, think I’ll buy myself a nice handbag on day 50!! 😉
@ annied and Planet Jane
“It would tick me off that he was so cool about it†– YES
Arrrrgh, why are they so frustrating this way? I fretted for days about ending things, hardly got sleep for several nights, and he’s just so, I don’t know, NON-responsive to breaking up. Do they think we will come running back soon, so they don’t take us seriously? Or are they just so good at hiding their feelings, even when “rejected†by us, since they’re so EU?
I suppose I would be guilty of not following through with a clean break the first 2 times, but those times we continued as ‘friendsâ€, this time there was no such agreement. Although, I did say I didn’t want to chat online first time I tried to end things. He said “we’ll see how long that lasts†– and I lasted all of 6 days. *sigh* That’s the longest I have not been in communication with him – how pathetic. I have been tempted to IM him tonight when I saw him online, but managed to restrain myself and even blocked him.
annied and Planet Jane – you have both mentioned rewards at 50 days NC, but I think I will need one sooner!! Even your two weeks-ish sounds like sooo long to me right now! I’ll have to think of a small but nice reward for 2 weeks. Stay strong, and I will try to as well…
notmeantobe,
Lord sister, I know exactly where you’re comin from 😉 I think of it as something like AA – one day at a time – or sometimes, one minute at a time – I WILL NOT CALL. It’s hard, but it works if you take it like that.
It’s easier for me now because I found out for certain (this time) that he is sleeping with a friend of mine. And he knows I know. And he’s not calling either…you can guess why. Which really flipping HURTS, but it is also allowing me, at least, some certaintly for now about what to expect (no call). And I’m pissed enough, and disgusted enough to follow through this time.
Good luck to you. You’ll make it!
If there were a way to FLUSH him out of my brain, I’d be just fine. It is the circular thinking that drives me crazy. How many times can you go over the same thing? Really, how long does it take before you stop “talking to yourself” about it?
PlanetJane
He’s sleeping with your friend – ouch, that must hurt, sorry to hear about that. Good to hear you’re turning it into something kind of positive (motivation for staying NC). I used to wish my AC/MM would do something to really tick me off, but not sure I want to go through that kind of hurt that you must be enduring. I’m dreading the day I see him trying to lure in a new OW.
annied
I know what you mean about the circular thinking – I have caught myself wondering if I really should have broken up with him already, and it’s only been 20 hours or so! He is the first thing I think of when I wake up, and whenever I don’t HAVE to think about something else. We must LET GO to get closer to our personal happiness.
Thanks for the advice and best wishes. Good luck to all…
notmeanttobe,
“I used to wish my AC/MM would do something to really tick me off.”
It’s funny…or actually quite the opposite but, I’ve been waiting for eum to do just that; I knew it was coming. But little did I know it would have the added hurt and humiliation of the betrayal of a friend as well.
I STILL even blame myself at times – if only I’d been more aggressive, if only I’d been more open and communicative – but now I can say to myself, STOP, and have the reality-check/bomb of: He slept with your friend, dummy! Do you really think some comment you made or didn’t make on page three of the “relationship” is of any consequence at all when he cares so little about you AND the “relationship” that he will sleep with your effing friends! Guess it takes a (repeated) kick in the head for some of us. I can only hope I’ve learned something. And I need to chill with some serious nurturing and self love for the next few months, or even years.
And,
“Do they think we will come running back soon, so they don’t take us seriously? Or are they just so good at hiding their feelings, even when “rejected†by us, since they’re so EU?”
I’ve really come to the conclusion that eums do not have “feelings” as we know them. I think, mine at least, has feelings for how things affect him, but that’s about as far as it goes. He may have shadows of feelings – feelings he knows he should feel, such as, “I feel kinda bad I hurt you.” But as NML says in MUAFBG, I really think that they think of us in the way you’d think of a pet. It hard to accept, and sad, but true.
PlanetJane – man, that sucks! I wanted to concur with what you said about these guys not having feelings as we know them. “My” EUM
had deep, deep feelings – for himself. Any slight would turn into something horrible. But if he did the same to me and I got upset, I was too sensitive or couldnt take a joke. He is (as most are) the most self-absorbed, self-serving person I’ve ever known.
I like your advice about finding a hobby outside of landing a guy. It sounds pathetic but it’s so true sometimes. Suddenly all your hobbies take a backburner while you try to mend a relationship, and then you start forgetting you had hobbies. I have so many friends like this, too. Great advice.
Notmeantobe, it’s Deb but my friends call me De 🙂
Oh well done you, the thing is the tightness in you chest will free up you will begin to breath again. I’m so glad you had the feeling of being ten pounds lighter, such a good sign that you were indeed carrying alot of his crap, good that you gave it back.(everytime you think of him you can visualiz all the pain and crappy bullcrap you put up with, scoop it up and throw it at him). It will lighten that load everytime you do that. Any negative thoughts grab them roll them into a ball look at it, see a handgrinade in front of you and throw that at him as well. I can honestly say this helped me, stop negative thinking about myself and put allowed some peace to come into my life, peace I deserved. Now you just carry you, your own sweet self, give yourself all the hugs and kisses and tears you need, bubblebaths, nights out with girlfriends, funny movies (no romantic sad ones”) and some exercise to get you into you body. Celebrate, you have just managed to get rid of a toxic relationship!!!
And believe me they will say anything so they don’t look like an a..hole, al that stuff he said sweetly, was to make sure he could keep the door open, don’t buy into it!!! It’s a trick. Yuk and Eeewww . Don’t wait for him to call, get up and go live your life, it is far tooooooo short to waste another minute!
peace
De
Aphrogirl… what he is doing is character assasination and slander,
so not fair.
Same thing happened to me, I cut him out of a business deal and he went back and told the other partner he had had to ‘cut contact’ with me last year (yeah as if he even new the idea of cutting contact, those were my words to him) because I had a terrible ‘crash’ on him, I told the other partner, yes I did, it was a friggin train crash! He had micro managed me for two years, while he was swanning it on the skislopes with his blonde bimbo girlfriend (which he didn’t tell me he had) I was punding the streets making contacts, working on the business plan, pitch training, blah blah…just doing all the work hoping he would see how mauch I could love him!! yeah and he called it a ‘crash’!!
Luckily for me, the other partner was a woman…. She saw through it in a heart beat..he had told her the business idea was all his and he done all the work. She said, this guy is delusional, you are the talent De, you made this happen, you don’t owe him anything cut him off!.
Whew, I thanked god the universe was looking after me. Sure enough I cut contact, have a great business with an understanding smart business partner and he can take a flying jump off one of those frigin mountains with his sexbunny, I hope they land on top of each other and start an avalanche which pounds down..ok no I won’t say that here, this is for healing not for spells ::))
Anyhoo, thing is..I have met this guy and he is saying and doing all the right things and what am I thinking…’whats wrong with him, there must be something wrong with him’, he’s atttacted to me and I attract losers!!! I’m even thinking I’d better call his ex to find out what mental disorder have I come in contact with this time!!
Is this just residue or is this real?? I can’t tell anymore!
De
@De,
Thanks for your words of encouragement. How long have you been NC with your EUM? I like the analogy of the grenade ïŠ
I am happy to be on day 2 of NC and glad he hasn’t contacted me either, even though a part of me hopes there is a message from him when I check my email. I am realizing just how much crap I did have to go through to be with him – even my email address is under a male name so his wife didn’t clue in to emails I sent. Again, pathetic.
De, you mentioned exercising, and NML said “Find something that interests you other than getting hooked up with a manâ€. Well, I started a new dance class last week (on the day I last met up with my AC/MM, as chance has it) and the first class I thought about him constantly, and imagined myself showing him all the moves. This week though (last night), I hardly thought of him at all, and was more focused on learning the moves and getting to know the other women in my class. That felt so good. I am relieved that I am not going to “shrivel up and die†just because I am no longer with my AC/MM. Then on the way home, the song “Not Meant to Be†by Theory of a Deadman came on the radio – it helps me to think of ending things with him, and is the inspiration for my name on here. I turned the radio up full blast and belted it out!
Sorry to be so longwinded. I guess I am writing on here instead of IMing or emailing *him*. Thank you all for the opportunity to do this – it is sooo helpful.
notmeanttobe, KEEP WRITING here. We all know how you feel to some extent or another, and in order to break out of an unhealthy relationship and start to gain your beautiful self back, and focus on loving yourself again you need to have a safe place to let it all out!
I was with a married guy, too, and I remember those early days of slowly realizing that he wasn’t getting a divorce and that I was just getting “crumbs…” and the fake e-mail addresses, (well, I didn’t have that, but I was just a hidden commodity)…. so it felt the same. If you have to hide things from his wife, he’s never going to give you a full relationship. If he was going to ever leave her for you, he’d let it out IN THE OPEN that he loves you and not her, you know? Anyway, I thought I’d never be able to stop the ups and downs and drama and love/hate passion. I thought I’d never be able to stop thinking about him. I kept wishing that the words he told me about wanting to be with me were true…. It’s all relationship garbage that he gives to us even though has a lovely (or not so lovely) wife at home who he goes home to, eats dinner with, watches t.v. with, does yardwork, has sex, etc… all kinds of things. And they’ll tell you they don’t do those things, but they do! You are not his priority, so remember you have to stick to this and not let him use you. He didn’t earn it, he’s not 100 percent in with you. It is hard to let ourselves realize that! And it hurts so badly. But, thank God for this site that someone was able to open our eyes, or who knows how long we would let the illusion go on and on. Mine was a bit more than 2 years of my life, but I’ve been about 6 months no contact except for a few times when he tried to contact me and I told him to “bug off unless he was truly divorced at some point.” Since I (now) know he is not ever getting divorced, and it was all just lines he fed me, I know he is not coming back. And it still bugs me that I was so naive, BUT now that I am this far into no contact and getting my life focused back on myself, my family, etc.. it doesn’t hurt so harshly like it did in the beginning. I remember reading other women’s posts who were further along than I was in the healing process and thinking “I’ll never feel that happy again, this is going to kill me….” type thoughts, but hang in there! You WILL feel better and it will all be worth what you have to go through now :). A lot of us here can attest to it, and though we don’t know you personally, we really care and want your story to have closure so you can get on with the happy life you were meant to live!
(sorry, that was long, but I get emotional from time to time in recalling how I used to feel)
notmeanttobe…I’m not even sure how long now, it’s been a yo yo of NC then back again for the past year and a half, he would somehow find a way back in, then I would feel like I was the grenade exploding and stop it, cool off then it would start again. This last time I think it was around April I said no-more, this time it feel very real. I counted the day’s after to see how long it took to lose the weight of him and honest it was no more than two weeks before I was bouncing along with my own self feeling happy and light. it may take longer for you but remember everytime you think of him thank the lord you are saving yourself for someone worth your time energy and life..and that someone is you!! Dancing is great! 🙂
and keep writing here, if you think of him, or feel you want to contact him, come back here…. come back here and read read read and keep reading till that feeling disappears!!!
peace
@lisa
Thanks for your message – I guess I will keep on writing then! Your words were difficult to hear, but so needed (actually brought tears to my eyes though). Six months NC for you – wow, that’s great! I believe you that I will be feel better in time (as Leona Lewis has said) and that it will all be worth it in the end.
My AC/MM never did promise a divorce, he just said (or IM’d) vague things like “I love you very much but where does that lead?†and “who knows what the future will bring, perhaps all will be revealed one dayâ€. He once told me he had thought of divorcing his wife many, many times, but said it would be “messy†and too traumatic for her. I asked her if he loves her and he answered “not in the way I’d like toâ€. He told me they hadn’t had sex for years, and when I told him I had trouble believing that he suggested that I phone her and ask her! That was part of the reason I became “intimate†with him – I felt sorry for him that his wife had refused him for years. He certainly didn’t seem out of practice, though (OK, can’t stay on *that* train of thought…). Do you really think they all do have sex with their wives, and just lie, lie, lie? I even told him I would understand if he did have sex with her (he already admitted to sleeping in the same bed most nights). We also had an “agreement†that we were exclusive, and he said “trust is important in a relationship†– how could I fall for all that utter crap???? I sure never felt like his priority though, as you said.
Lisa, you said “sorry, that was long, but I get emotional from time to time in recalling how I used to feel†but no, thank you for the long message, I needed every word.
@De
I hope I feel like you did after 2 weeks. I agree, dancing is great, I love it as it is my stress relief. And I’m glad your last NC start in April felt “realâ€. I’m starting to hope that this is it for me, too, as I haven’t even cried about breaking up with him yet. Last 2 times I ended it, I sobbed for days, couldn’t focus at work, cried whenever I was alone in my car, etc, etc. I don’t know if this time I’m just stuck in the denial stage? Maybe I have cried all the tears for him that I had? Maybe because I am feeling the support of all of you here? I’m hoping I’m like you, De, and my heart has just “had it†with him and his crappy crumbs. I have put up a boundary and he’s not allowed to cross it!!!
I’m so pleased that so many of you have gone NC and can tell us that it works. It really gives me hope that one day I’ll really have had enough and manage to do it and mean it. Like lots of you, I too have tried to end things but my heart’s never been totally in it so it’s never worked for long.
Can anyone tell me if, the fact that each time you end things with the AC it feels less and less traumatic, is a sign that you are getting to the end of your tether. I ask because this has been my pattern plus I am now getting very p*ssed off with his self centred attitude. He’s all laughs and flirts and attentive one day, and barely civil the next. He’s like this with everyone but I am getting annoyed with it, it’s just rude apart from anything else.
In addition I am tired of his conflicting words. He has been ‘joking’ with me, ever since we split up and he met his current wife/mother figure who gives him anything he wants, that I never give him anything (he loves women buying him things). I reply that I once gave him my heart but he threw it away – so now we are equals and give each other nothing (apart from the fact that we still have sex and have done so for years)
What is really making me feel miserable is that he confused me by taking me out for a nice meal a couple of weeks ago (and he NEVER does this), it was really pleasant, we’ve known each other for ever so we are supposed to be old friends (FWB these days). So this week, I suggested that I returned the favour and we go for a meal one evening and I pay. He won’t do this, he has this thing where he won’t accept anything from me (though he will from anyone else), I think because he then thinks then he’s under some obligation to me – but then I get the ‘you never give me anything’ complaint.
Talk about mixed messages, I can’t win either way – but the result is that I feel rejected and unhappy more than I feel wanted and respected – and I still haven’t reached the stage of telling him to F off and mean it.
I read this site all the time, the messages are so clear and your experiences back it up, I know I need to stop this, so hearing your stories gives me hope that one day I too will reach a limit.
Sadthing, I guess what I forgot to write in my last post was the fact that for almost a year (before I found this web-site) I had tried breaking things off and tried No Contact on my own, and always either myself of the guy would break it, and somehow (like everyone else) I hoped things would be different…. “this time he’ll really mean what he says” or “maybe I am expecting too much, so I’ll back off and give him space…” etc… IT was always a roller coaster because I couldn’t admit that he really was never going to have both feet in. Once I found this site and learned, TRULY LEARNED, that “no contact” means exactly that: NO CONTACT. (it doesn’t mean that I break up, don’t call him and then wait for a crumb or an e-mail… it means I break up, block everything, realize the truth and then move on with my life. What a harsh reality! But it was true! I had to stop thinking that I was going to get him back and he’d be different next time around. Every once-in-awhile, there is a fleeting moment where I dream, “oh maybe he’ll show up on my door step someday as someone who wants and is available and capable of putting both feet in the relationship” but then I ask myself “Do I really want someone like that for the rest of my life?” Honestly, the truthful answer is “no.” So, to get to the point of my rambling, YEs, it does feel less and less dramatic because he doesn’t believe you’re going to end it, so he doesn’t blow hot anymore to keep you. He’s thinking that after your little breaks, you’ll come back. But! 🙂 Once you close the door for good, he might try to blow hot and win you back, but you’ll be on your way to a new, happy you, and he won’t be able to even get in touch unless he starts to stalk. The hard part is realizing that once you close the door for good, he will probably not chase after you and offer you everything you’ve dreamed of! But someone will someday. I believe that. I’d rather be alone and happy than in a 1/2 assed relationship and sad and confused on a regular basis.
I don’t know if that helps, but I wish you the best as you try to see things clearly and figure out your path in this relationship. Just always be honest with yourself and your answers will come.
I”m not trying to be cold or anything. I had to come to all this, too, in my own head, and it wasn’t fun!
@sadthing
You said “we are equals and give each other nothing (apart from the fact that we still have sex and have done so for years)” – sorry, but I don’t consider that you are giving him nothing – you are giving him your precious body and your energy.
As far as getting to “the end of my tether”, when I asked my AC for the umpteenth time what I meant to him and what he valued about me as a person, he just shrugged and said “I’m sorry, I don’t know what you’re looking for”. He can go on and on about my physical traits that he likes, but nothing about me as a person. I got sick of having no answer to that question.
I found this song by Sara Bareilles Too good for you (so sorry) on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjzM48NLexw
and when I looked up the lyrics online, they express how I feel about him now. I think you mentioned your AC is also a MM, and I found the posting and comments on this blog about “Breaking up and getting over a married man/attached man” to be extremely helpful
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/breaking-up-with-and-getting-over-a-married-manattached-man/
I have only just finished day 2 of NC (so far so good), so I’m pretty new at this myself, but I do feel that I have had enough of this roller coaster nonsense and I am ready to get my life back after more than a year of getting the scraps of his time and attention. I hope you are able to get to this point too sadthing. Best of luck to you!
Excellent. 🙂
Sadthing,
I don’t think where you are is cold, I think it’s vibrant and warm and right, you have found your way back to you and you have grieveda dreadful experience. I love that we know the score, it petters out and when it’s done it’s done. I look back and know my experience wasn’t just about him, it was also about me giving up and grieving illusional love… in the end we put both feet it the relationship with ourselves, this is our triumph over adversity, or heriosm and real reason to celebrate and remember we did it for ourselves. We would still be dancing to the beat of their drum if we had not finally said, I deserve more than this, I’m gonna clean myself up, close this chapter, cheer up and get my life back for a new begining and it’s a good feeling being in the new beginning, you have an exciting future with so many possibilities, fresh and clean.
well done us!!
Thanks, Lisa you nailed it with this
‘The hard part is realizing that once you close the door for good, he will probably not chase after you and offer you everything you’ve dreamed of! But someone will someday.’
This is exactly where I’m stuck, I’d rather put up with his conflicting behaviour and wait for his crumbs than have nothing at all – and now I’m beating myself up even more because I can see what I’m doing but can’t quite get to the point of stopping it.
Of course you’re right, they know that you will have them back based on past experience. He doesn’t accept it when I end it because then I am calling the shots, so he always gets me back to where we were, and now I realise that his refusal to have dinner with me is yet another way of him not giving me what I want. It’s a crazy power game and I’m letting him have the power to make me unhappy and it’s no good.
I wish I had enough space on my walls for all the posts on this site, I need to read them all every day!!! They and the messages on here are an inspiration.
Oh whoops, I mean lisa! 🙂 also I will say sadthing, you have got to give ‘yourself’ the respect and love..don’t wait for him, it will never ever ever come, I feel the pain you are in. Believe me when I say it is so so much sunnier after him. Please throw him away like the garbage he is!! please, I beg you!!!
@sadthing
I tried to leave you a message, but it said my comment was being moderated, and I think it may be because it had website links in it, so here it is without the links:
You said “we are equals and give each other nothing (apart from the fact that we still have sex and have done so for years)†– sorry, but I don’t consider that you are giving him nothing – you are giving him your precious body and your energy.
As far as getting to “the end of my tetherâ€, when I asked my AC for the umpteenth time what I meant to him and what he valued about me as a person, he just shrugged and said “I’m sorry, I don’t know what you’re looking forâ€. He can go on and on about my physical traits that he likes, but nothing about me as a person. I got sick of having no answer to that question. I have always felt like a “supplement” to his life, not a cherished, valued partner. I also feel guilty about potentially hurting his family,
I found this song by Sara Bareilles Too Good for You so Sorry, on youtube, and when I looked up the lyrics online, they express how I feel about him now. I think you mentioned your AC is also a MM, and I found the posting and comments on this blog about “Breaking up and getting over a married man/attached man†to be extremely helpful.
I have only just finished day 2 of NC (so far so good), so I’m pretty new at this myself, but I do feel that I have had enough of this roller coaster nonsense and I am ready to get my life back after more than a year of getting the scraps of his time and attention. I hope you are able to get to this point too sadthing. The women on this site have been fantastic also, even though I am new here. Best of luck to you
I believe that part of the problem lies in the fact that we stop listening to our heart/intuition, which always knows the truth. We act against our “gut feelings”, and allow our conscious mind to fill our head with a story, or we ignore our feelings because we have been taught that acting on certain feelings is wrong, or not polite. If we learn to listen to our bodies, which store our emotions, and act on them (not impulses), we will be so much more content, and happy, because when we act against them, we are not congruent with ourselves, and we make ourselves uncomfortable.
searchingwithin’s last blog post..I Am Not Tempted By Anything But Temptation
I totally agree searchingwithin, you nailed it!! 🙂 But then the original message gets skewared in our minds with mixed signals and the original message still trying so hard to get through, no wonder we go crazy!. I think if it doesn’t make you happy…run!!!
xx
Have decided to give myself one of these great names so from now on De is ‘delightedtobefree’
@delightedtobefree
I love your new name, and love that it still starts with “deâ€.
You said “if it doesn’t make you happy…. run †I totally agree. Along the lines of searchingwithin’s comment, I have been ignoring my gut feelings, and stayed in a toxic relationship for far too long. When I broke up with my AC, I immediately felt physically lighter, which was probably my body letting go of some negative stored emotion, or as you said earlier De, letting go of “his crapâ€.
I am now on day 4 of NC, which would normally be when I would be getting anxious about not hearing from him, and frantically looking for emails, or looking for him online to chat. Then, if I got an email, I would immediately feel calm, as if I got a “hit†of some addicting drug (his love was like poisonâ€). Last night, I did have a strong urge to contact him online, but I distracted myself with listening to music, as many of you have said that breaking NC is never a positive thing. Today, I am so glad I resisted, and I feel calm all on my own without getting a “hit†of the AC drug.
Per NML’s suggestion in the post above, “I want to be happy by …getting rid of this toxic relationship once and for all, and getting in touch with my own interestsâ€. I have gotten in touch with some friends I had neglected while I was obsessing over my AC, and they were so glad to hear from me, and so fun for me to reconnect.
delightedtobefree, I am going to take your cue and change my name a little bit to “not meant to beâ€. Hope you don’t mind. The spaces between the words represent the boundaries I am putting into place between myself and my AC, and any other EUP that may come my way and threaten my happiness!!
Let’s start listening to our intuition and get closer to being truly happy…
This was a good post… it’s not something you haven’t said before but I enjoyed the repackaging of the message.
I am the point, after this last epiphany relationship, where I am now aware that I am not happy. I am not sure how this came to be, because when I met my ex I felt on top of the world. It’s what, I thought, attracted him to me. And now here he is gone and I am a basket case.
The parts that I am having a hard time with are setting boundaries and not blaming myself.
I thought I was setting boundaries. I have read your posts on women who talk too much… but I felt I was being proactive and calmly stating my needs. So how do you set boundaries without being aggressive and demanding? When my ex would do something that bothered me I would state it, or simply remove myself from the situation so as not to argue, but realized I have been going from aggressive to passive aggressive. So if, for example, this person cancels on meeting your friends for the 3rd time in a row… what do you say? I said it was unacceptable… should I have actually just left?
My ex tells me I lecture and argue all the time and that this was not a life he wanted. I am having a hard time (the blame part) letting go of that because I can see myself this way… but also feel he is managing to turn things around to take the blame off of him. I question some days that because I am not happy, that I was not happy with him because of me, not because there was anything wrong with him. I can see a lot of good in him, and yet your comments on negativity also make me wonder if it was he who brought me down. I was really in a good place when I met him, busy, confident, happy with my life. So is it possible that it was his attitude that brought me down and that I am actually growing by being able to recognize that and to have spoken up?
I know this for sure, I need to figure out where I end and the next person begins so I can say with certainty what was me. The blame part, I think, stems from this inability to have your boundaries and know what of your behaviour you are ok with, and know is you, and what part you can start to see as being a negative reaction to someone else’s poor behaviour.
I figure with my ex… there are a number of people who express a dislike of him, who have seen his nasty temper, his exes similarly have stated they just knew they didnt’ feel that happy with him… so it gives me some confidence to say this was not all me!
My fear is that no relationship is going to make me happy… that it isn’t about finding myself with these poor men, but that I am finding good men and mucking it up.
Thanks to everyone on there for their posts. IT’s so funny to see some of the same behaviour and it makes me feel less crazy.
Hi everyone. I’m not sure if anyone is still commenting on this post but I really need some advice. For the past 2 months I have been dating a man who after 3 days of being with me told me he was falling in love with me. I admit it did concern me a bit but I brushed it off as just infatuation on his part so soon in the relationship. His wife had died from cancer 4 years ago and he spent the last 3 1/2 years alone. Prior to meeting me he claimed that he dated only 3 people and that none of these 3 women were able to deal with that fact that he lost if wife. He claims they told him that he could never love anyone the way he loved is wife and they didn’t want to be “second” in his hear or be compared to her. He did tell me at first that he was divorced but then came clean about a week later about it… by the way. He has issues with his family, claiming that they don’t want him around and they treat him terribly. Anyway, after about a month or so, he kept saying that he loved me more than anyone he ever met in his life (even more than his wife) and he wanted to spend the rest of this life with me. I said that I cared for him deeply and that enjoyed spending time with him and getting to know him but I asked if we could slow things down just a bit. He stated that he didn’t have time for a casual relationship and if that was what I wanted, then I needed to find someone else. Also, he’s stated on several occasions that he needs to be his girlfriend’s “best friend” and that she should come to him first regarding anything to do with her life. I said that a “best friends” type of friendship develops over time and that it doesn’t just happen because one person says they love you and want to marry you. I explained that if he cared so much for me, then he should be willing to be patient and let this grow and develop. Now he’s making comments that sound like he wants to control what I do. He ridicules me because I don’t seem to do anything but work and come home but I explained to him that I spend every evening and weekend with him so there isn’t any time for me to do anything else. Now for the past 2 days he keeps telling me that I don’t want to be with him anymore and that I should find someone else that treats me better. Is this a classic case of an EUM or someone with other emotional problems.
Also, he has told me that if he asks me 20 times a day do I love him, then I should tell him 20 times a day just to reassure him. I’m sorry, but that doesn’t sound normal.
Please give me some advice as to what to do… I’m really having a hard time with this….
Kim… Trust your gut. I think you know this is not normal behaviour. You came on here and asked for advice because you know it seems odd. Bottom line you are absolutely right, someone who truly cares for you and thinks you are the love of their life would be patient with you and appreciate the way you live your life. They do not ridicule you, and would be willing to see the relationship grow. If you are the love of your life, but don’t want to go at his pace, would it make sense that he would leave you or threaten to leave you so that he could go find someone else?
It is a red flag to me when people seem to fall in love with you instantly. It’s sad because so many of us are caught up in this fantasy, but normal people who are looking for long term commitment recognize that this takes time to grow. sure we all get giddy at the get go… but we don’t confess our love for someone in a week.
IT’s up to you how you deal with this, but I hope you know that you are not alone in thinking this behaviour sounds a bit odd. Take the space you need and if this man truly loves you, he will stand by your decisions.
Thank you. He’s always saying that I’m going to dump him or that I’ve already found a new boyfriend or whatever. I can’t even get him to listen to what I say or hear what I’m saying. He keeps saying that if he hadn’t told me he loved me and wanted to marry me so quickly that we wouldn’t be having these problems and I would want to be with him?!?!?. I tell him that I want to work on building a relationship and that there is no problem with us taking our time. He continues to say that I don’t feel the same way about him or that I don’t appreciate him. I really don’t know what to do…. everyone suggests I should just leave him alone and let him figure out what to do, but then the text messages come that say “Well, I guess you’ve already found someone else'” and ” I’ guess you don’t want me.” He’s trying to turn this around me, but honestly wanting to move slowly isn’t a bad thing. I’m damned if I do contact him because he doesn’t believe me and I’m damned if I don’t because then he thinks i have moved on. Can this be his way of just trying to end a relationship without having to say it? I realize that I can end this, but it sure seems like a lot of work to keep playing games with someone rather then just be upfront. He has admitted he’s insecure and everyone has taken advantage of him in the past and he has trust issues. I just don’t get it… is he beyond anything that I can do for him?
Kim,
I agree with DazedandConfused that his behaviour is odd. I am not a psychologist, but I have worked in health care, and it sounds to me like he needs counselling to work on his own self esteem issues. Are you prepared to act as his therapist? It sounds like a relationship with him would be “all about him” and so where does that leave your needs or chance for personal happiness?
Best of luck with your decision.
I have a question,often NML says that we have bad believes about ourselves,love and relationships.I can identify my believes about myself like Im not atractive enough,no guy will want to be with me,I will always be rejected and so on but I cant do the same about love and relationship.Anybody can give me a example of a bad believe about love and relationship that we might have for me to fully understand it?
Kim the phrase ‘he’s a bit like an Emotional Vampire’ is one that I used to describe my EUM early on in our relationship – unfortunately I didn’t really understand how accurate that was until 4 years later,I’m now struggling to let go of my involvement with him.
The others are right, your gut is telling you that his behaviour is not normal and to me it indicates a big black hole of need that you could spend the rest of your life trying to fill and will never succeed, and it will drain the life out of you in the process.
I would trust your gut and withdraw – before you get sucked in too deep. I’m sure many of us here felt the tug of a ‘broken’ man and felt that we could be the ones to break through their pain, but the fact that we’re reading this indicates that it didn’t work. Good luck.
Hi Anusha
Some of the negative beliefs that you have about yourself fall into negative beliefs about love and relationships as well because they are not indepedant of each other. The way you feel about yourself is a direct reflection of the types of relationships and the kind of love that you encounter. Having the negative belief that you are not attractive enough will for example, draw to you situations where you may find yourself being overly jealous for example. Your partner may be speaking to an attractive woman lets say about work, but because you have a belief that you are not attractive enough, you will automatically perceive this woman as a threat to you and your relationship. Depending on how real and deep that belief is to you, it may cause problems in your relationship where perhaps you don’t want your partner even looking or talking to other women period out of fear that he may find them more attractive than you.
An example of negative beliefs about relationships would be:
Men only want me for Sex.
I will always be cheated on
Men cannot be trusted
Relationships are tooo hard
If i am in relationship, I have to give up all of my other interests
A negative belief about love could be:
I have to work real hard in order to be loved
If I want someone to love me, I have to sacrfice myself for them
Love has to hurt, otherwise its not really love
Love means that it’s ok for the person that I am with to disrespect me sometimes
If someone really loves me, they will want to be with me 24/7
There could be many and in many different combinations. Always remember that whatever negative beliefs you have about yourself will only be magnified more in relationships. That is why it is important to be aware of what our negative beliefs are about ourselves, love or relationships and work on turning them into more positive one’s.
Hey everybody,
I’m kinda hatin it right now. So…I was on 2 weeks NC – which I still consider myself on, cuz I didn’t actually talk to him, but I kiiiiinda broke it.
I was out Sat night, and drinking with some old friends from out of town, and I called him at around 11 – but quickly got scared – and hung up after about half-a-ring, but my name is probably on his caller id. I was drunk. It was dumb. Damn.
It didn’t really mean that much to me, cuz it could have been a mis-dial, but now I kinda feel like a tard cuz it could seem like I’m playing games. When really, I was drunk and emotional and felt like I wanted to talk to him (I haven’t called him back since I found out he’s sleeping with a friend) – but then realized it wasn’t the right time or place, and that I wasn’t ready.
And, of course, he didn’t call me back. I’m relieved on the one hand cuz I don’t want to/am not ready to talk to him. But I feel rejected too. The usual I guess 😉 He probably knew we were out drinking – I was with his sister, and his new girl was invited but hmmm, she didn’t show her face.
It’s just so hard to deal with the conflicting desires of wanting him so much and wanting contact – on a very emotional level – and yet knowing that I need to, that I have to move on.
I feel that because we’re connected through friendships and family (small town) that eventually I have to reach out and make peace with him. I feel the burden on me to forgive so that everyone can move on and be happy. Or maybe it’s just an excuse to keep believing in a possibility of an “us” in the future. Or maybe I do not to forgive, so that I can move on and be happy. God this is tough! I’m soooo conflicted. Thanks for listening/reading. I needed to vent. Any advice?
Planet Jane
Wow, I’m sorry you feel you kinda blew it after you were doing so well with 2 weeks NC. BUT, I think there is a big positive here in that even though you say you were drunk, you got “scared†after you dialled his number and hung up! Good for you!!! You were listening to your gut even tho you were “under the influenceâ€.
I don’t think you need to worry your EUM will think you were playing games – my EUM would almost certainly assume a misdial, but then I suppose when we are on NC we are supposed to try NOT to care what they think, right? I almost feel tempted to unblock my EUM on messenger, so he can see I am online and ignoring, but I think THAT would be childish of me and truly playing games!
And I just wanted you to know that I can fully relate to the complications of having other ties with your EUM. My EUM is my brother’s supervisor, and I would HATE for there to be any negative implications for my brother, who has no idea whatsoever about our relationship. I have thought of trying to smooth things over with my EUN for that very reason, but I think it would not be productive for my own happiness to do that. Why do we get ourselves involved in such complicated webs of drama? Not sure if that helped, but know I’m right there with you in these complex situations. Stay strong planet Jane, and get right back on the NC train!!! Like I think you told me before, we can do this!!!
Thank you notmeanttobe for the feedback. It definitely helped me to gain a more calm, outside perspective!
I realize that all I’ve managed to do, by semi-contacting him, is to engage myself in the drama again. It’s all me! Joy 🙂
Ughhhhh.
Hmmmm. Yeah, I’d say better to leave him blocked. Less to think about.
“I have thought of trying to smooth things over with my EUM for that very reason, but I think it would not be productive for my own happiness to do that.”
Notmeanttobe,
You are right…bottom line. Ultimately we don’t OWE them anything. We don’t owe them peace of mind, and everyone playing nice. NC is not a way to get even, or an aggressive, angry move. It is a means of moving on. I have to remind myself.
Just checked my cell owner’s manual, and the call to my eum didn’t connect! Meaning I’m not on his caller id. Yay! I got lucky.
PlanetJane,
Yes, yay, you are lucky – still on “real” NC as far as he’s concerned, and you can forgive urself for the slip – just be prepared next time when you go clubbing!
Meanwhile, my EUM just emailed a really nice email, but about HE feels about this break-up. I told him ;no contact” but he apologized for taking so long to email!!!!
Have I broken NC as I read the email?
Not meant to be and Planet Jane, I’ve been there, most of us have…. try not to call when you’ve been drinking! 🙂 Sit on your hands, call a friend, write a book…. anything but calling! (easier said than done… I called the guy several times after drinking. That was actually when I usually broke the no contact, so I stopped drinking for quite awhile, and it helped)
Yes, you broke no contact by reading the e-mail, but so what. Don’t beat yourself up or anything like that, just try not to respond unless you think that by you responding, he’ll be nice or different or will have changed. I just don’t want either of you two to stay in the cycle of hoping for more from them, but still getting crumbs.
I do believe that some healthy guys, if they really soul search, can change, but AC’s and EUM’s aren’t normal, and I don’t think they ever really change. Only you know which type of man you’re dealing with.
Just my two cents. You both are really on the right path and it is awesome that you are going through it at the same time so you can encourage each other.
Even if you go back or struggle with no contact, coming back to this web-site will help you continue to think clearly with great advice from lots of people who have been through it!
oops, I meant …but about how HE feels…
and thanking me for sharing a part of my life (even though he said he didn’t see a committed future for us – suggested maybe in the next life we can find each other earlier)…and saying how wonderful I am….and how he wants to be lifelong friends…..and that his arms miss me….
HELP!
lisa
Thanks for your answer! I am going to sit on my hands now….I am NOT responding!!!
Mmm, I don’t think you’ve broken NC just by reading, but I AM another FBG 😉 As long as you don’t let what he wrote cause you to entertain thoughts that he may still love, want or be interested in you.
Nice he tried to communicate.
Oh nevermind…not very nice! Sounds like he’s trying to suck you back in. Delete that email. Don’t respond. Cry, take a bath, go for a walk, say goodbye. 🙁 So sorry.
@lisa,
One more thing,
I asked you a question back under July 11, 5:21pm that I would like you to answer, if you don’t mind:
You said:
“(he)..has a lovely (or not so lovely) wife at home who he goes home to, eats dinner with, watches t.v. with, does yardwork, has sex, etc… all kinds of things. And they’ll tell you they don’t do those things, but they do!”
and I said/asked:
“He told me they hadn’t had sex for years, and when I told him I had trouble believing that he suggested that I phone her and ask her! That was part of the reason I became “intimate†with him – I felt sorry for him that his wife had refused him for years. He certainly didn’t seem out of practice, though (OK, can’t stay on *that* train of thought…). Do you really think they all do have sex with their wives, and just lie, lie, lie?”
so…what do you think? I know every case is different, and you don’t know my particular EUM/AC but do you think he could have been lying to me? Not sure why this is so important to me, but just trying to make sense of this whole mess, and to understand if I am just too gullible…
Thanks
Wow, well, not meant to be…. Yeah, I think they lie.
But, I don’t know your guy personally.
Try to think logically. Why would a guy stay with his wife if they did absolutely nothing together and never had sex?
For me, I found out by having contact with the wife, and maybe you should have given her a call just to see what he was telling her. If he lies to her about you, you can be pretty sure he lies to you about her, you know? IT all SUCKS!
When the guy’s wife found out, by looking at the cell phone bill, he asked me to lay low for awhile and he would talk to her about when he was going to move out, but what he actually told her was that he broke things off with me and that I was out of the picture, and then he continued to snow us both that way for about a year until I finally figured out that he was lying. There is more to it than that, but I was naive and wanted to believe that he wasn’t staying with his wife. She let me know that things were normal at their house, they slept together, vacationed together, shopped together and made meals together, etc… and of course they did. I only saw him on the weekends where he had a few hours of time. Yikes! And he really did try to convince me that he loved me during all that time.
I don’t like thinking about it anymore because I was stupid, and I have to stay focused and remember that I forgave myself and I asked his wife to forgive me to (even though I felt like her husband should have been the one to ask for forgiveness). She told me to f off. (and he still tried to contact me)
The further I get from it, the happier I am and I’m actually thankful for the whole experience because I learned so much about what I never want to do or be a part of again.
I hope this answers a little bit. I’m going to get off this site for a bit because I’m thinking too much about it and it hurts a little.
Well, I don’t know what to tell you, and I hope maybe it is different for you, and it sounds like you weren’t expecting him to leave her or anything like that, so at least he didn’t “go there” lying to you.
Keep plugging away at it, you’ll figure out what you really want and need in your life, and it seems like HE is not it.
lisa
thanks so much yet again, and so sorry if it caused pain for you to go back there in your mind. You have been so helpful for me to get wise to all my EUM’s bs.
You’re right, I do not need him in my life, and I hope I get to the point that you are at now – away. and tho he never came right out and said he was leaving his wife, he still kept me hooked with … I’m not leaving her “right now” but who knows what the future might bring. I only ever wanted him to love me like I loved him.
I know I can’t bank on crumbs and vague non-promises.
I hope you find happiness and peace lisa, and thank you so much once again – your comments have truly been helpful
Anusha,
You asked about negative beliefs. You said you could understand self-beliefs like “Im not atractive enough,no guy will want to be with me,I will always be rejected and so on”.
There are many ways to be attractive. Joyful, competent, self assured, secure – these are things that everyone can accomplish, and hold onto for life. Competing with busty 24 or 26 year old beer commercial idols – that can be achieved by the few, and won’t last long. Anyone that the TV model catches – will be looking for another one when the shine wears off.
Someone that appreciates a joyful, competent woman – there is no artificial shine to worry about. When you do something worthwhile, when you know you are good at what you do, when you know you are working to be even better – then looks become mere grooming out of courtesy and respect. And looks won’t become a “Dang, if only I was a little more attractive, I could out-bimbo *that* girl, too. This time.” kind of lifestyle.
Security, according to Judge Judy, is where self esteem comes from. The security that you know you have worth, and what you are worth. Then, when you run across a guy that understands your worth, too – you know that he is worth a try. Simple boundaries would tell you to avoid anyone that doesn’t respect you or your worth.
As for always being reject, I imagine a lot of that is not being prepared – that is, knowing joy and fulfillment in your life at the time you enter a relationship, and because your pick of guy is related to your belief that no one (of any worth?) would want you. So you would find guys that won’t want to stay with you, the emotionally unavailable, the assclown – the perpetual daters.
Without knowing you I can’t say what would be the most helpful. From my own perspective, I would say nail down simple, basic hygiene, a neat and clean appearance, and never consider again whether you are attractive. Well, you might work on a smile. A smile should be all the “attractive” any woman needs. And maybe karate or kickboxing. Just knowing you can kick any bozo’s ass, or at least make him work for it, will do wonders for how one looks at life. Or T’ai Chi, or Yoga – these spirit and body programs help de-stress and focus on you and what is going on within. Yoga claims to help improve strength, agility, and manage pain. Start with a good class with an instructor recommended by trusted friends.
And look for the guys that are *not* chasing skirts. Find the guy your neighbor knows that works and isn’t involved with anyone – and is respected by friends or neighbors. You will likely have to be a friend first, but you won’t likely be surprised with an unannounced wife, or find him chasing skirts at every bar in town.
You are unhappy with the rules you have been playing by. Imagine yourself being happy, and see if the rules to that *happy* game aren’t more fun.
Luck!
Brad K.’s last blog post..Book: Judge Judy gets tough on romance
Thank you Karen and Brad for your answer to my post 🙂 When I said I always been rejected is that I used to fall for guys that didnt love me over and over again.I did that for 3 or 4 years.I think that helped to create my believe that no guy would want to have a relationship with me.Than my ex came and he did wanted to have a relationship with me and said he loved me(even though he didnt act like it and as I found out later he was EU).I think that is why I clinged to him so much and even though I wasnt getting what I wanted from the relationship and was unhappy,I stayed for years.Im trying to change that on myself and keep saying to myself that Im atractive,reminding me of my good traits and so on and hopefuly I will change that believe.
BTW– Thanks for the advice on my problem. The AC had indeed said some twisted things to my manager. I actually turned in a resignation because was just sick of the atmosphere.That gave me the chance to explain what “really” happened. My manager asked me to stay. He said I should NOT run away and said running away from a bully would only hurt me. He assured me the AC would not pull any more stunts. I know my manager realizes I’m much more valuable than the AC simply because of who I am and what I bring to the table– my warm, outgoing, friendly, smiling attitude is extremely important to the business. My manager asked if I could just forgive the AC in my heart and move on.
It’s funny, when he said “move on” it hurt. Even knowing what I know, it still hurts to comprehend the finality of “move on.” I’m sad that the AC is, as he fully admits, so full of fear and pain… and rather than build a connection, he slammed me out.
OMG…Bang on! Thank you for that! In sharing your experiences, I felt like I was reading about me!