When you enter into a romantic involvement, you have to be what you seek. From putting your profile on a dating website/app, to those initial communications, to how you interact with a love interest prior to knowing whether they reciprocate, to how you think about you in the context of your relationships — you have to come from a place of love, care, trust and respect.
When you treat yourself like the worthwhile and valuable person you are, this gives you confidence. How you feel about and treat you is your self-esteem. It allows you to enter into relationships with personal security. When you do, why would you give that up for a stranger? This is what so many people do: they become romantically involved with somebody and neglect their self-esteem and security to bet on the possibility of being ‘chosen’ and the relationship working out.
The thoughts that you feed you and the way that you treat you matters. When you treat yourself like a less-than person, it puts you on the back foot. Instead of being able to enjoy life and your relationships, your energies go into trying to ‘fix’ you via the people and situations you come to depend upon. Why burden you with with this debilitating task? Why give romantic partners the responsibility of ‘fixing’ you?
You don’t love someone from the outset, but having your own back is a prerequisite to carrying yourself with integrity, compassion and responsibility.
This means that even in those instances where you don’t know, like and trust someone [for who they truly are] yet, you can still operate from a place of love, care, trust, and respect in your dating interactions because you’re coming from a place of self-worth instead of fear.
Coming from a place of self-worth limits the crumb mindset. This is where you conduct yourself as if you have to earn the basics.
‘If I prove I am worthy they will go from where they are now (being/doing the things you don’t want) to becoming someone who will treat me right and give me what I want.’
When you treat and regard you with love, care, trust and respect, you won’t accept less from others than what you can already be and do for yourself.
In unhealthy relationships, you accept from others only slightly less than what you do from yourself. It’s like, Well, I’ve got this covered in my [uncomfortable] comfort zone. Yes, it’s painful but at least I know what to expect and it can’t get much worse. Until it does.
It’s not as if being with someone who mistreats you in a similar fashion will ‘double’ what you’ve been receiving from yourself. If anything, it’s going to decimate your own efforts because you’ll be in an emotionally, mentally, physically and spiritually taxing relationship.
Even though you might feel as if you get by on your self-esteem, possibly because your perfectionism and people pleasing has garnered a level of success (e.g. career or education) or you’ve quite simply gotten into a routine that shuts down or numbs feelings and thoughts, it’s another thing altogether when the person you’re with is the living embodiment of your fears.
You can, for a time, get away with hiding your beliefs and their impact. However, there will always be people who are willing to step into your life and reflect the truth back to you through their behaviour and what you go on to continue to accept from the relationship.
If you treat yourself decently, it’s gonna feel damn funny to continue to be around someone who doesn’t.
You have to be the person you seek.
Your relationships begin before you have even met the people. Through your relationship with yourself, you are laying the foundations for how you will be when you meet others and when you’re in the relationship. The more you strive to treat and regard yourself by being the person you seek is the more you break unhealthy habits and patterns. You will also be more receptive to meeting someone who can treat you similarly.
Your thoughts?
Are you ready to stop silencing and hiding yourself in an attempt to “please” or protect yourself from others? My new book, The Joy of Saying No: A Simple Plan to Stop People Pleasing, Reclaim Boundaries, and Say Yes to the Life You Want (HarperCollins/Harper Horizon), is out now.
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I have learnt to treat myself with love, care, trust and respect. I trust my gut instincts and now follow them as they are 100% right. People criticise me for having a checklist but my non negotiables are honesty, integrity and fidelity. I also won’t consider anyone with past or present addictions including workaholics. To me these people need crutches to get through life and will most likely have problems with emotions and won’t be present in a relationship. Workaholics have a good excuse not to get close and who wants to be 2nd fiddle to a job? They also have a good excuse to hide other women. People can criticise me all they like but I do suspect in some cases it is envy because I am confident, independent, self sufficient and don’t need a man in my life to define me as a woman. If I let a man in then he has to really offer more than I already have. People evolve and some take longer than others but you will see the red flags much sooner which I do now and then you can weed out. I start with good intentions and know what I won’t accept so I have 2 strikes and then out. It is true that men tell you the truth but you have to listen and interpret the signs correctly which attraction can sometimes over ride. Another good reason to keep those legs crossed for longer!
Thank you, I needed to hear that.
ditto
I should also add that I don’t consider men who are pervy Peter Pan types. Fishing in the young enough to be their daughter pond then moving to date near thier own age demonstrates a total lack of boundaries, shallow values and is way too perverted for me.
I agree. But I feel as though perverted isn’t the right word in there. I’m 33 and I have interest in men 10 years younger, mostly looks-wise. My mum is in a long term relationship with a man who is 41 and she is 56 years old. My child’s dad is 40.
My age range is between 23 and 35 but I would consider up to 50. I find younger men more sexually attractive and would like a younger man because I have a high sex drive, despite only having had the one sex partner and haven’t had sex in 18 months now. I just find them more enticing as humans – personality wise, sexually etc.
I think there’s nothing perverted about finding young women attractive, that is anyone over 18. Humans like to look at humans. Believe me, we women also do it.
Also, I’ve found guys as young as 15 good looking, not sexually. And I would never go there. I also find women attractive, and sometimes sexually attractive. Doeant mean I would ever act on it.
Phoenix I am taking about decades younger e.g. 56 and 28 and that is pervy as a man might as well sh@g his own daughter. There must be something wrong with me as I am straight but don’t find young men attractive and see only prancing peacocks. In your 50s it is about more than chemistry and men also have ED problems. My Dad is 81 and his companion is 10 years younger. Now he is slowing down so that age difference is beginning to tell.
When the age difference is very large then the power dynamic is with the older person male or female. The first question anyone much younger should ask is why the person coming on to them isn’t dating in their own age group which is more natural. I have 6 years up and down 7 maybe at a push as beyond that there are lifestyle differences and generational differences.
10 years difference I can accept, beyond that I am being pushed to the limit of my boundaries. I am also from a generation where societal norms did not approve of teenage pregnancy, abortion, divorce, drugs, tattoos and age disparate (young enough to be a child) relationships. Those men and it was mostly men in that era, were called perverts for preying on young girls above the age of 18 or in their 20s when they were old enough to be the father. I cannot change the era I grew up in or the values instilled in me and wouldn’t want to because now I think that society is too lax and this shows in some of the generations we now have. There are reasons why societal norms and taboos exist and if they become the norm then society breaks down in an unhealthy way. Personally for me a young woman in her 20s finding a middle aged man a suitable companion 50+ (sugar baby and sugar daddy) indicates a serious level of dysfunction in both parties with each having low self esteem, shallow values basing selection on attraction and needing egos boosted. For the woman it is akin to prostitution by another name and she is being used trading sex for holidays, jewellery and money being open to control and manipulation.
There are actually a lot of women who go for sugar daddies to pay off their debts. If a young man came on to me I would think he was only after a) a pump and then dump and/or b) money and he would be discouraged strongly. It is for the older person to have the boundaries and say “you are way too young for me” and put that before sex and attraction. Some young women are precocious and see an older man as a challenge and an ego boost if bedded but once a man swims in that pool the woman will be traded in for a younger model when she reaches 30 or 35 if she lasts that long and he is on the road to perdition. Self respect is everything and older generations than me feel the same unless they have no boundaries. There is nothing as pathetic as a middle aged man or old man trying to be eternally young. The late Hugh Heffner and Peter Stringfellow come to mind. They were gross.
I think views are changing, I don’t find anything wrong with dating younger. I am in my early thirties and would date a guy in his 50’s, but older if we were compatible.
You have the mindset of a lot of older women, it’s not about money. Young women graduate from university now and have their own careers, age is no obstacle.
Judgemental.
If I would you, I would delight in thinking outside the stereotypes, be less judgemental of other people’s choices, and really think about why you hold such views. It’s common of the older generations to think this is wrong, so it’s not your fault. But if I were you I’d challenge your thoughts on the subject. Peace.
Each to their own. We are products of our generations and the younger generation are the way they are. I don’t need to challenge my thoughts on this as I know that I have values and boundaries I am happy with, which is all that matters. You have yours and they may not be mine but we live our lives as we wish to. It doesn’t mean you are right or that I am wrong and it doesn’t mean I should look to change. I just don’t share the view that big age disparate relationships are suitable or acceptable. If that is being judgemental then you are judging me by your generation’s standards. But….what goes around comes around and some day you may find that men your age only look at women young enough to be their daughters. When your child is dating you may have to face the reality that they bring home someone your age. End of discussion
Men my age are already dating 20 year old women. But my life is my life and I couldn’t care less who dates who. Being happy in yourself means you shouldn’t care, I’m not sure why you care. Are you jealous? Do you feel inadequate? Then they are things to work on.
33 is no longer considered young, either. BTW, I agree. My eggs run out in like 7 years and younger women have more to offer a 33 year old man who doesn’t want to settle down.
Today I saw a man with a much older women, I took a double take as they were kissing and cuddling, so obviously a couple in love. Yeah he was good looking but I didn’t feel anything towards them. Maybe the fact I wish I was in love, yes.
But let’s think about it – most people choose the person that is good for them despite age. Not what they offer. And you wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with someone anyway who needed you to offer them superficial things or money.
I have a degree and career so I’ve never had a guy be my income earner, but many men have done this for centuries. While the women look after the children. Some men reckon this is using them. I wouldn’t want to be with anyone who believes I’m using him. Rather be alone.
Admire your honesty. Age is largely irrelevant.
I am a 51 year old guy. I am open to meeting a girl/women of any age less than me. I also like to talk and flirt with much younger girls in their late 20’s and 30’s and I am no deviant.
It’s always great to have guys give their opinions and perspective on the topics Natalie blogs about. What brought you to this site?
If age were truly irrelevant you would be open to older not just younger.
I completely agree with Feisty on the age issue, and I am 31. I see it largely as a gender equality concern. There is research indicating that women live longest when partnered with someone closer to their own age. There is also research indicating that partners around the same age tend to have more stable, long-lasting relationships. I like the idea of forming a partnership with someone around my age because it means we are at the same stage in life, we see each other as equals, and we can build our lives together and grow together. With a greater age difference (and for me 6-7 years max in either direction is also what I find to be an acceptable range), there are power dynamics at play, as mentioned, that cannot be avoided or denied.
I will speak for a moment about a particular type of relationship, acknowledging that there are many other types of relationships out there, perhaps with different needs and expectations. In heterosexual, family-oriented relationships, it is only fair for women to be with a partner around her age, because that sets the same standard for men to have a biological cutoff for producing children. If a man thinks, “I want to be with a partner around my age, and we need to have kids by around age 40 or 45,” then he is taking that relationship and family commitment much more seriously than if he thinks he can just dick around until he’s 60 and then settle down with some younger woman. When an entire society of men has a dick-around-until-you’re-60 mentality (or even dick-around-until-you’re-40), then an entire society of young women who want to start families and/or partnerships with someone their age are left in the dust.
I also get that icky feeling on a visceral level thinking about a man dating (or trying to date) someone young enough to be his daughter. Why can’t he find and appreciate a woman his own age? Does he not think that women his age are beautiful? If so, do you really want to be with someone who only sees the beauty in your youth? Will that last?
How many women did he mistreat or not take seriously before he met you? How many older women did he cast aside because they weren’t young enough while hypocritically going after younger women? And even if he has the best of intentions, knowing that older men do exploit younger women this way, why does he think it’s acceptable to hit on you and that you would be interested? A respectful man would believe that you deserve to be with someone your own age whom you can start a family and grow old together with (if that’s what you want), and the two of you would have to address why a relationship with him is more valuable than that. This is not to say that a healthy, loving partnership cannot exist between two people with a significant age difference, but I wouldn’t expect it to be the norm. I myself would only enter into such an arrangement having very clear answers to these legitimate concerns.
I happen to agree with you and Fiesty. I’m almost 44 and have been attempting to re-enter the dating pool. It’s been a shocking to see the amount of men in their early to mid 40’s (and even late 40’s) who have never been married with no kids, but state that is what they are looking for. So as I read between the lines, my perception is these men are looking for women in their early to mid 30’s. Certainly not someone like me as I’m divorced with 3 children and unable to have more. While not impossible, it is, statistically speaking, more difficult to become and carry a pregnancy in the mid 40 range.
Personally speaking, it would be difficult for me to date someone 10 years younger than me. The biggest obstacle for me is the difference in maturity levels. Our life experiences would be very different as would be life goals. I have gone out on 1 or 2 dates with guys under 40 and it was somewhat difficult to find mutual topics of discussion. When I’ve had guys in their 20’s contact me, my first thought is, “They have mommy issues.” Yes, that is making a hasty judgement, but what is a guy in 20’s wanting with an almost middle aged women??
Excellent post,thank you for writing it. Absolutely right on. The only person we need to challenge, or confront is ourselves. No one else is responsible for these damaging relationships.
Thanks to Feisty, right on sistah! Let the haters hate, shake it off.
Thankyou. We must not be afraid to do the work (time for the crime) of letting these men into our lives to wreck havoc. I ignored what I now know to be red flags and married the b@stard. My radar wasn’t evolved enough and I had never met such a personality so I can forgive myself for that. But……now it is very different and I’ve been able to identify similar traits in a man I got to know and was thankful he never made a move to ask me out. I was right about this creep too. So learn and don’t repeat is my mantra.
This is the living truth if ever I read it…
I always used to put on this front that I was this confident, sassy and cool woman but deep down inside, I was a very insecure woman still struggling with the emotional / psychological / verbal abuse I’d endured as a child at the hands of my over critical, narcissistic mother and emotionally unavailable step-father.
I spent years wondering why all my relationships never lasted longer than a few months? Why my relationships never progressed into anything long-term / meaningful? Why my relationships were never fulfilling in any way whatsoever? Why I’d always be the one putting in the effort to make dinner plans or go see a movie, and paying for the privilege too? I’d lie to my friends and family about the true state of my relationships because I hated having to admit that I was in another dead-end relationship with yet another loser, and it was all of my own doing because (at the time) I decided that crumbs were better than having nothing at all.
The turning point for me was when my most recent ex (April 2016) who I was due to move in with after a whirlwind 3 month romance, fractured my hand during an argument and cruelly withdrew his offer of moving in with him. I had already given notice on my flat share and within a week would become homeless. I had no choice but to stay with an aunt in her spare room on a fold-out cot bed for 2 months whilst I saved for another place to rent. During this time, I was signed off work for 6 weeks due to my broken hand and a serious bout of depression/anxiety, and I decided I needed professional help as I felt suicidal. I was 33, single again, childless, homeless, struggling with lupus and felt completely alone and like the world’s biggest fuck up at life. Through therapy, I started to see that I wasn’t a lost cause, I was a product of a dysfunctional and unhealthy family unit. I wasn’t brought up to feel loved, secure and worthwhile, so I had zero boundaries and self-esteem as an adult. I spent all of my adult years hoping a man would love me enough to make up for the love I never received from my parents. Through therapy and a lot of reading and meditating (NO DATING AT ALL) I learned to regain my self-esteem and started to feel good about myself. I cut all the toxic people out of my life (including my parents and someone I thought was my BFF), found a flat to rent that wasn’t too expensive but just right for me, turned to veganism after I was diagnosed with kidney disease that summer and I slowly started to rebuild my life from scratch on my own.
I decided to spend 2017 single and devoted that year to getting healthy and being the best version of myself that I could be. I got invisalign braces, had surgery to correct my ugly feet, quit drinking and smoking weed, lost about 30lbs with a plantbased diet/yoga, and simultaneously improved my kidney disease/lupus in the process. I travelled as much as I could, invested time in the few friends and family I had left who always supported me/loved me, spent time with all my friends new babies and my nephews (it’s the next best thing to having my own I guess), and treated myself with the love, care and respect I truly deserve.
I started dating again in December 2017 and met a great man who I’ve been seeing for the last 3 months. He’s the complete opposite of the cretins I used to entertain: he’s kind, non-violent, affectionate, nerdy, thoughtful, stable, loyal, consistent and shows me love every single day without question. The saddest part is that I wouldn’t have given him the time of day 2 years ago because he’s much older than me and divorced with 2 kids, but I’ve matured and grown enough to realise that my unrealistic expectations were blocking me from the love that I deserve. The things that used to appeal to me in a partner, no longer do, and I couldn’t have experienced this amount of personal growth if I hadn’t have sought the help of my amazing therapist (who I still see regularly) or given myself a year to do some serious introspection.
I’d strongly recommend this approach to anyone who is struggling to break their pattern of toxic relationships. It’s the best thing I’ve ever done and I have no regrets.
You have done the right thing. We all need to love self and be happy with self before we can love and be happy with another.
a)Too many people are looking to someone else to complete them or define them e.g. I bagged a seriously handsome man so that must make me a hot woman. You can be a hot woman on your own without a man and the more handsome the man, the more the likelihood is you have been chosen as an accessory for an empty vessel or are boosting low self esteem; yours and his.
b) I don’t need a man to complete or define me and am happy single. Not only that but I love me and am happy to be me which I am. Keep repeating ladies morning, noon and night until you realise that this is the only way you can move forward.
c) I am lonely and by having someone, anyone in my life I am complete. No and it doesn’t offer the escape door from life’s problems either as that is lack of boundaries and fear of being alone driving you.
d) Any man entering and staying in my life has to offer me a damn sight more than I already have. That is where I am now.
Time spent recovering and resetting boundaries is time well spent to avoid these douchbags in future. If you end up alone so be it but I have time to myself, I travel and enjoy that immensely.
I agree with all the points you’ve listed above, but would strongly advise the following also:
Accept the fact that marriage, a long-term relationship or kids (for those without) may not be in your future.
Sounds harsh, but once I resigned myself to these 3 facts, I felt a lot more relaxed about life. It made me more determined to find joy in other things like travel, friends, family, art and writing. It felt kinda liberating to know that I can still lead a good life without a man or children in tow. It takes a lot of pressure off dating too because you’re no longer working towards such a rigid (self-imposed) timeline, e.g. married in a year, baby by year two, house in year 3 etc, etc.
LondonLupie, you are an inspiration and I am so happy to hear your story. Thank you for sharing!
My pleasure! If my story can help someone else who is currently at rock bottom like I was, then that’s a good thing.
Thankyou. We must not be afraid to do the work (time for the crime) of letting these men into our lives to wreck havoc. I ignored what I now know to be red flags and married the b@stard. My radar wasn’t evolved enough and I had never met such a personality so I can forgive myself for that. But……now it is very different and I’ve been able to identify similar traits in a man I got to know and was thankful he never made a move to ask me out. I was right about this creep too. So learn and don’t repeat is my mantra.
You learn so much being single. I got into my first relationship at 25, lost my virginity and went on to have a child. We were together for 6 years and my child is now 5.
I’ve been single for almost 18 months now and I feel very confident, I really like myself. I’m really interested in men but I haven’t dated at all, just busy parenting and enjoying my life ?
I have been reading Baggage Reclaim since December and decided I needed to work on myself and 2018 was going to be the start. Since I’ve had over a year to get over my relationship, which wasn’t emotionally healthy.
I have been losing weight and getting fit since January, I bit the bullet and went and got a genital piercing (VCH), I decided to make a start on finishing my tattoos this year, I am busy parenting and helping with the school, I am all round happy, meeting new people who are becoming friends.
I feel like I am most confident when I am single. I think I want to be single for a while, but also make sure I only get into a relationship that is respectful, fulfilling, loving etc. I’m just really not at a point where I’m even ready.
These days I don’t get lonely because I am focusing on myself and just the plain boringness of being relaxingly single, it’s actually nice to not be caught up over a man and not missing him either.
Best of luck to everyone, I’ll be spending my year here and hopefully make some more comments on posts by Natalie. This website has literally saved me from unhappiness and made me feel so EMPOWERED and like I am free for once in my life. Thank you.
For a 33 year old who has only had one long term relationship of 6 yrs, and only had sex with the one person, I have a lot of trust issues around men due to my upbringing and having a father who was not at all respectful. I’ve had little experience in men, as friends and lovers.
You sound like a cool chick, Phoenix. Good attitude.
Genital piercing ….. jeepers.
My thoughts exactly! Deffo a cool lady 🙂
Wow! I am practicing this now. I recently joined an online dating site (3rd time in 6yrs — 1st time I lasted 24 hrs, 2nd time 3 days before I was spooked and ran) this time I promised myself I was going to proceed at MY comfort level.
I delete lazy messages, winks and likes and have forced one man to respect my pace when he wanted to immediately meet and then complained our 3rd email exchange was getting too long. I basically said: I understand the speed many use on this site. It’s not for me, and I am determined to proceed within my comfort level.
He seems to have got it, and if he didn’t I don’t care.
I am determined to keep my mug out there, weed out the losers and users with the delete key, and take care of myself.
I appreciate this article reinforcing what I am practicing. Thank you! Xo
So I have been following Natalie Lue for 4 years approximately and found this forum always to be Understanding!! , supportive and helpful.
I have to say that I find poster “Feisty” comments very unhelpful:
Some of it is good as it repeats what Natalie writes- yet the majority are negative assumptions when it comes to other peoples behaviors fueled by cliches and narrow mindedness.
Maybe Natalie needs to repost this, but this is a forum that supports and sometimes with tough love but always with content to a Poster with questions. Posters don’t abuse this site to share their commonplace ideas about youth and society or tattoos OR to prop themselves up (you wrote, that you don’t need to challenge your thoughts- really?) wow you must have a different psyche then.
You haven’t understood anything about boundaries as this is NOT something you implement one day and then you got it for the rest of your life and don’t need to think about it as boundaries get challenged all the time, by other people, by situations by our egos….
If you are so sure and secure about everything then maybe you can spare a bit more compassion for others who are not as evolved as you are and more acceptance for individual lifestyles.
Each their own, right? You wrote it, then own it.
I am currently getting past a train wreck relationship of eight years. I went on a dating site and met a guy who used me sexually and I believed he loved me.
I took a breather from him for a few days told him I needed to be alone and would get back in a few days and he agreed. Guess what the asshat did? He got on a dating site and got a date within 24 hours. Being in a train wreck did give me a gift. I have the most amazing red flag alert system. So I am talking to him and he doesn’t tell me. We r suppose to be back chatting and FaceTiming and he was all lovie the night before I found out. The next day I’m in the passport office and I was writing and like a light went on and he responded to my request to come down for the weekend by tripping over his words..I heard him trip over his words but I went right into denial. Until the flag came waving in front of me and I remembered denying a feeling that he was lying to me. So I got on a text message and asked him to be real and he told me he was gi8ng out on a date with someone. He literally said something like that’s not important and he was making excuses for his shit decision when we were suppose to be dating. So I canned him, blocked him and I still am realing from all the trust I had for him. He attacked my behavior that he was critiqueing all along. Making excuses for his f..led up decision.. anyway enjoyed the blog..Natalie and you all are good women and I will look forward to reading more of the blog..Unluckynlove18
So — just broke up with someone. Hadnt dated for a while. It was …problematic. And I dont want to rehash it. But now I face the prospect of rethinking what dating means once you are in your late 30s and perhaps dating people already in their 40s. And its harsh out there. The articles on relationships dont help much either – websites like BR are different, as they are not really about dating, theyre about authenticity in your relationships. Thats something we can never have enough of. But a lot of articles on popular sites about relationships are really depressing – no one is happy, no one seems to be having any real physical or emotional intimacy, monogamy seems to be harder and harder and not much of a goal – and the comments on those articles! Phew. De-pre-ssing!!!!
I’m still processing this breakup which I do not regret. I am happier and calmer which itself is telling. But the person I dated had a very inflexible outlook on relationships and I cant help feeling swayed by it, over thinking my own values and stances in life which admittedly have not served me well – I say this as I am still single but why should we see singledom as some sort of failure – should I be doubling down on wanting authenticity in my life, or giving up on it and getting ready for some teeny tiny crumbly crumbs for the rest of my life? Thats what the culture out there seems to tell me – fairy tale romance possible till about 32, then desperate dating to tie someone down for about 6 years, two years of drinking and despair, then it all shuts down at 40 bye bye give up might not even get crumbs. I know Nat would say no to crumbs! and to this timeline. And I agree – however, sometimes crumbs is all thats out there, so what do you do? I have only one piece of advice for myself today – better not to know the statistics and the sad sack articles. Relationships are difficult. But so are many other things that we manage to do successfully – have careers, nurture valuable friendships or networks, make peace with our siblings or parents, overcome our fears, grow and change. I think its better to believe that there is hope even in relationships even if that hope never materialises, than to settle for crumbs or believe the dull and boring statistics. Remain optimistic, right? It costs nothing.
Hi Suki,
I’m about 10 years older than you but am going through the same thing where I am trying to balance remaining hopeful with being realistic. I have a number of friends who are extremely well-matched in their long-term relationships and I had always believed I could find someone who could be my partner as well as my best friend. I still believe it is possible but, as time goes by, I am beginning to realize that it is becoming more an more unlikely.
There are still a lot of good people out there. And there are certainly plenty who are good enough. I may end up alone or settling for something less than the ideal I had hoped for, but I’m in a place where I think I can accept this.
I won’t settle for crumbs and neither should you. My definition of “crumbs” is a relationship where I am unhappy and/or anxious most of the time with only occasional relief and I will do everything in my power to never be there again. I don’t regret my crumby relationship because it brought me to Baggage Reclaim and opened a window onto myself which I had never looked into before. I’ve been there and done that now and I’m ready to move forward.
Hi Stephanie,
I’m thinking we are around the same age……I’ll be 44 in a couple of months. It’s interesting you bring up the topic of “settling for less than the ideal I hoped for.” So that is exactly where I am at. I have spent the last 20 years on the merry-go-round of less than relationships with essentially the same guy, different face. I have had a reliable, consistent good guy friend for the last 3 years. We have fun when we are together. We can count on one another at any time. He is a good father to his children. He is a successful business owner and is financially independent. He is giving to a fault and expects nothing in return. He is always supportive and will listen when I need to talk. He is encouraging of me when I feel down. I know he would be loyal, dependable, caring, and I could trust him. So why am I not attracted to him??? At times, I think to myself, “Are you crazy to not attempt a romantic relationship with this man?? He is everything you say you want in a committed relationship!!!” So is that really fair to either one of us for me to attempt a relationship even though I feel like I would be settling? I worry if it didn’t work, it would tarnish our great friendship.
So I’m trying to decide if this is something I could accept even though it’s not the ideal I had hoped for……….
Suki,
I hear you!! Dating is not easy.
It sounds like as if you were rushing yourself to the “lessons learned” with that experience.maybe you had some hopes and expectations, even if they were only privately.
If so, which is completely normal when you are open and looking for a relationship!
Those hopes, expectations and even dreams need to be at acknowledged and the feelings surrounding this need to be felt before you can let it go again and move on to the lessons learned from it.
I don’t think it’s helpful to spend Time on online platforms that have people on it with a very frustrated Outlook on dating. It is contagious, those negatives beliefs and if enough people are voicing it it will eventually rub off.
Please take a step back, and understand where they are coming from, and how they are stuck in staring at their own drama and with all the emotions that come with that! Their experience is not yours!!
Plus I would be questioning how true and real these statements really are- we can write Anything!!
Natalie has a great podcast on being discerning and having your own back, no matter the circumstances.
understand your own needs, and see if you can create that in your life with the people that you trust and are caring and can give you that.for me it was comfort and empathy and deepening my friendships has helped me a great deal to become less dependent on the outcome of my dating experiences!! Take good care of yourself and take time to grieve, no matter how short this experience was, the impact on you needs to be acknowledged. Be your own best friend
🙂
thanks @unfolding and @stephanie for your kind responses… all too true. Deepen all your relationships – thats good advice. The positive of that is also that you then have something to match the dating experience against. That said, all our deep friendships are deep because of years of closeness. Dating is problematic as it assumes immediate gratification, the three month mark for exclusivity, the one year mark for whatever, two to three years for locking it all down etc. When you look at how long it has taken your good friends to get to know you and for you to see that they have your back, and the number of ‘good’ friends that dont make it beyond the first year or two of friendship, is it any wonder that its hard to find a partner?
I think a successful relationship can only evolve over time, if both parties are willing to stay committed. Our good friendships required a lot of time – not patience, or work, because good friendships are not work, but time, showing up, going out, doing things together, being open, being helpful, listening, having fun, having matching values. If a relationship doesnt start with that feeling that you can be good friends to each other, it won’t go anywhere.
I couldn’t reply to anything so I’m writing here. It’s very interesting the differing views on age difference. Sorry if my opinions were offensive. I guess I’m just different than what the majority think.
Thanks for the compliments that were also directed at my post!
Much love and respect.
Phoenix,
I was not personally offended by your opinions. The world would be pretty darn boring if we all had the same opinion. I gave some serious thought to your perspective and that is the reason I waited to post. I do see your perspective and where you are coming from. But when you talked about being interested in younger guys, you tagged with a high sex drive and only having been with one partner. Are you looking more for casual relationships at this point? I make no judgements as we are all adults and make our own decisions. I’m coming from a perspective of a long-term, mutually fulfilling relationship. It would be hard for me to find that in a guy 10 years younger than me.
I do wish you well.
LondonLupie
I do agree with you on the taking time. This is why I have been taking better care of my health, getting more tattoos I want, generally just messing about with things that make ME content. And while I’m very attracted to men and in my mind want to be around them, actually I haven’t even so much talked to a single guy. The last 18 months have been all about myself.
And it’s really great for your self esteem to have that break.
CLR.
Yes. I have a child and I’m not liking to have another. So you are correct. I am looking for a relationship with someone’s who won’t live with me, who doesn’t want (or already has) children, preferable not long term. So age is not an issue currently.
So this feeds tight into what was discussed, if a woman wants children and someone to live with then perhaps similar age is preferable. And while a lot of people want this, we have to remember that living together and having children is not the be all, and a lot of people want different out of relationships.
For me at 33 (soon), I am done with children. I had 4 miscarriages in my time and while I don’t class myself as infertile (could’ve been the male aspect), it does impact that choice too.
My sincerest condolences on each of your losses. My heart goes out to you.
Phoenix did you ever get checked out with all the miscarriages? That must have been awful and I can understand why you don’t want more children. In the UK they have found conditions that cause these and there are treatments, though this won’t apply with you now.
Like you I don’t want to live with a man but so many men want to live in, no doubt to have a chief cook and bottle washer. People criticise me for that and not wanting to remarry but why after 2 marriages do I need to shackle myself again? If it didn’t work out a 3rd time I’d be really stuck because my health isn’t as good and I like a quiet life with my cats now doing my own thing with automony. Most of these people are in long term marriages and don’t like people who aren’t boxed up nicely for them. They even say I am picky WTF! Anyone who has been conned like many of us have would be picky now. Being picky is healthy. No point going out of the frying pan into the fire.
Should have said, long term relationship would be nice but as I said I don’t want more children, don’t honestly want to be a step mum either, I would rather continue living alone. Age isn’t a concern, but I’m not about chain a younger childless guy down who probably would want a child later of his own. So older would be preferable. But I am interested in guys in their twenties, sure. And yes it’s about looks for sure. Upper twenties preferably.
My mum’s partner of 7 years is 15 years younger, his baby son died at birth so he didn’t want to try again. He is 41, very happy with my mum who is 56 I think now. They are happy.
My daughters dad is 40 and I’m 33 this year, absolutely no maturity difference there.
My whole reason for posting to begin with was to say I don’t agree with the word perverted, at older guys dating younger women.
It’s judgemental because we jut don’t know inside people’s relationships and why they are together. I’ve offered some of my own examples. Relationships are never just one type.
But I have no problem with people wanting to date their own age. Just the judgement I find is like judging gay people – unneeded in 2018. But that is only my opinion and in the end it’s not a big deal what I think, and I’m not going to beat people down and change their own opinions.
What someone wants is what they want, end of story (smilie face) do what makes you happy!!!
Phoenix I get what you are saying. Unfortunately there is now a booming industry with sugar daddies and sugar babies and often they have several sugar babies in tow. To me that is just an excuse for older men probably on viagra to bone as many women as they can whilst splashing the cash and buying the women. Recently I was in Krakow having a meal when an older man/younger woman combo sat near me. He was all over her like a rash snogging away which made me feel uncomfortable due to the fact of the age difference, that it wasn’t appropriate in public and the women didn’t look comfortable either. Not only that but she didn’t reciprocate and then burst into tears. Even though I didn’t understand Polish I could work out it was the break up meeting initiated by her. He went to pay and then slipped a wad of cash in her coat pocket.
He looked ridiculous as his hair was clearly dyed aka Macca style and had an air of pathos about him trying to be younger when his face gave his age away. Each to their own but these men are avoiding a real relationship by being roosters in the hen house and the women are demeaning themselves because in these arrangements they are hookers. Some age gaps work if the relationship is genuine but mainly if the woman is younger and doesn’t rock the boat for the man so he has control. Believe me that I would stay clear of many men near my own age as they are damaged goods psychologically and not a good LTR prospect.
I just left a relationship of 3 years with a man 21 years older than me.. Talk about a pervert–he looked, I mean stared at all women when we were out together.. I am very happy with myself, I am slim, attractive, etc. but he was sooo perverted! He also never married, he went from woman to woman which I wasn’t aware of until later on in the relationship, and he was 71–so immature!! I couldn’t believe it, I had a bad feeling at the beginning, I didn’t trust my gut–and a couple of years in, there were lies, manipulative behaviors, etc. etc. So glad I left him a few weeks ago!
Sue all you can do is learn and move on. Good for you getting out. For me a man who never married would be a red flag to be honest because you have to accept that there was probably a woman he could have settled down with. He sounds like a right snake in the grass.
Sue, that sucks. Glad you left, you deserve way better!
Thanks!
Like Katy Perry, some men just can’t see that they have a beautiful woman. And the woman is hurt/damaged by it.
My ex was a womaniser. We all deserve so much more.
“You have to be the person you seek” this sentence said everything. We have to first work on ourselves before judging others. This article is very helpful. Thankyou for sharing.
I found that an interesting thing happens when I step back from the dating scene and just focus on creating an interesting life for myself and becoming the person I want to be – the desire for a partner goes into the background, it’s no longer in the foreground. This makes me much more comfortable and relaxed with men, but also in a position to say “no”, ask questions, and have important discussions without getting emotional.
For example, I asked a guy I had been going out with for several months to share some things from his childhood and he said he had already been through therapy and wasn’t going through it again. Normally that would make me feel rejected and hurt. Instead, I was curious as to why he felt that way, so I explained that I was trying to develop a deeper connection with him and that meant really understanding what he’s been through in life. We went back and forth for a little bit, but with no real pressure from me, just wanting to understand why he was so reluctant to share. In the end, he did and ended up crying and talking for a long time. I don’t think I could have done that even a year ago. I think I would have felt hurt and reacted to that hurt instead of reacting with curiosity and understanding.
Ultimately that relationship didn’t work out (we never did make a lasting connection, he remained distant) and I’m taking some time off from dating to re-center. When I get to the right place, I’ll go back to dating again, but I know I have to do it from a position of strength, not from need. I need my friends. I need my community. I don’t need to be in a relationship with a man. It’s something I want, but if I get to a place where I feel needy, that’s the time I need to take a break and get re-centered. If I don’t then I no longer see dating as a discovery process. When I lose sight of that, I ignore red flags and end up washed up on the shores of the heartbroken.
Too bad it’s taken me 65 years to figure this out, but I’m in a good place and glad at last I got there!
GailSusan, I’m so happy for you!!! To have peace and contentment with ones self is so rewarding. In that moment of being able to take a step back and come to the realization his reaction was based on his backstory and had nothing to do with you gave you the validation that your self work has paid off!!!! In addition, you let go of a relationship that was not fulfilling you instead of staying and hoping he would open up at some point. Your post made me smile 🙂
I wish you the best!
CLR, I’m so glad my post made you smile. I surprised myself by my ability to step back and not take his push back personally. Of course, that also shows I wasn’t emotionally attached to him yet, so his reaction wasn’t threatening to me. The real test will be when I fall in love and am able to do the same thing! I let go of the relationship because I wasn’t falling in love with him. My friends were all shocked because they really liked him. He seemed like the ideal guy for me – intelligent, well-educated, published author, physically active and healthy, thoughtful, respectful, etc., but I didn’t feel an emotional connection. I stayed in the relationship too long thinking “I should give this relationship a chance.” I tend to do that and now I think I will just listen to my gut and err on the side of leaving too early when it doesn’t feel right.