While reading a few reader stories of pain mixed in with good points, I was struck by the thought, Do these people realise that everything about their relationships is about reinforcing and even justifying an unhealthy course of behaviour and thinking? I’m all too familiar with how we can be so far into something or so focused on one specific aspect, that we don’t see the sum of all of the parts. We focus on how we feel occasionally or how we feel from instant and short-term gratification, without considering the costs of continuing with our actions and thinking.
There is a level of safety and comfort – the uncomfortable comfort zone – in going with our type and repeating patterns of behaviour and thinking. We know what to expect, including certain ‘excitement’ factors stemming from a mix of anticipation and underlying anxiety created by the expectation that things will cater to our beliefs. It’s why we have a type and a pattern in the first place. Even though we may never have had a mutually fulfilling healthy relationship with our type and may have been in deep pain with our pattern, we will argue that because we’ve experienced good points and good times, even if they are/were short-lived, occasional, or clouded out by major issues, that we have a strong case for continuing on as is.
At the same time though, what we predict based on our type, pattern, and ultimately our beliefs, creates a will it/won’t it scenario.
We live in a perpetual state of anxiety with our very own soap opera cliffhangers. That uncertainty and possibly an increasing sense of not being in control, may in itself be enough to maintain our curiosity and interest. We want to see how it plays out. We keep ‘tuning in’ for the next installment and in the background, the narrator is chipping in with our beliefs.
When we use patterns, which is really our way of living unconsciously in a life-by-numbers state, we do what we do even if in the wider sense it’s unhealthy, because there is a payoff – a short-term benefit that we may even be tricking ourselves into believing that we can extend to something longer or permanent. This ‘payoff’ can simply boil down to, it’s easier.
Even though there are wider, longer-term implications for what we’re doing, when we’re not open to reviewing our patterns and we stubbornly plough on despite not achieving the desired outcome, it’s because we are getting a level of reinforcement, even if it’s only occasional. We are highly likely to adopt this attitude if we already hold unhealthy beliefs that we seek evidence to confirm that they are true, as opposed to challenging evidence as well as any assumptions and generalisations we based the original belief on. As a result, it’s very easy to get caught up in a cycle of engaging in an unhealthy pattern that only yields occasional ‘highs’ because we are used to grabbing onto evidence to reinforce what we’re thinking and doing. Of course if we didn’t look for evidence to support our habits, we’d have to open up our minds to other possibilities and change.
We don’t see our short-term thinking and behaviour for the trap that it is and it’s made even worse by the pattern being based on unhealthy beliefs so getting a level of reinforcement, even if it’s only occasionally or for very short periods of time, in its own way reinforces those beliefs while at the same time invalidating us and lowering our self-worth. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
In a situation where we’re sticking to type and pattern, we won’t know when certain things are going to happen but the anticipation and yes, the anxiety, that at some point it will happen, keeps us invested. We spend a lot of time living in the past or trying to anticipate the future (betting on potential and/or forecasting doom), and stress ourselves out even further.
It’s a catch 22: If it it unfolds as predicted, we’re going to be unhappy which means in theory, in predicting this, we could opt out, but instead we wonder, What if?, and we doubt ourselves and so decide to see things through.
The fact that we predict the outcome, activates the gambler in us that wants to see if we can be the exception to the rule and it also activates the pleaser in us, and so we people-please in an effort to influence that person’s feelings and behaviour in the hope that in turn, this will change the outcome. When it doesn’t, it reinforces this notion that we’re unworthy. Exhausting!
If the person has unpredictable aspects – they’re going off script – this is likely to increase our curiosity, anticipation, and of course, the anxiety. They’ll probably be marked as ‘exciting’ and an ‘amazing connection’ – the unpredictability will increase the stakes, even though on some level we may recognise that we might be doing a slightly different dance move right now, but that we’ll eventually wind up doing the lather, rinse, repeat move.
Patterns, type, and short-term thinking back us into a corner because any good points and times are used to justify continuing despite compelling reasons to do otherwise and at the same time, the downturn reinforces our unhealthy beliefs and increases bad feelings. The more we try to justify and reinforce that we are ‘right’ is the worse we feel. It’s a vicious cycle and a misappropriation of our energy.
At what cost do we want to be right? Seeking evidence to prove the worst of what we think, isn’t our core purpose, especially when it takes us in the opposite direction to the things we truly do want, need, and expect.
That’s why I stopped chasing versions of my parents, namely my father – I decided that it was time to wake up and live my life instead of spending it trying to reinforce that I wasn’t worth a damn and that every dodgy thing I’d learned about relationships and life was true. Strangely enough, after working through those issues and adopting healthier habits, low and behold, these reinforced that I made a good choice and that I’m worthy of love, care, trust, and respect.
There comes a time when we have to not only look at the bigger picture and whether it’s genuinely worth some crumb benefits to feel malnourished and anxious most of the time, but we also have to evaluate the cost of pursuing being ‘right’ – sure it’s ‘safe’ and predictable to a degree, plus patterns spare us from having to think and stick us on autopilot, but they also prevent us from living happily, authentically, and consciously. Make a conscious choice about what you want to spend your time, energy, and emotions reinforcing.
Your thoughts?
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As usual you can read minds. But how do we know 7 dates in if he really is unavailable or we are projecting that on him because that’s all we know? And secondly and this is incredibly shallow, what if we can’t be physically attracted to the few guys that do seem to want a relationship?
Do you actually know you are projecting really? My second sign comes when I start asking people to either confirm or not confirm, what I would actually like to be real.
Has he done anything that constitutes either amber flag or red flag in Natalie’s post list? – that you are choosing/pretending doesn’t really mean anything because he’s so damn considerate at… undoing your bra, holding back your hair while you lick his ego… or something else… that is actually good for him? But never ever good for you?
And secondly – try spending time with the men you don’t feel physically attracted to – at least you won’t jump into bed with them before you are ready/ do anything not good for you and you never know you may change your mind about physical intimacy, once you are actually able to be mentally intimate with someone who is able to be mentally intimate with you.
This does not mean get physical with someone who you are not fully attracted to. This means try spending time with people who make you really feel good – long term – who actually care for you and you can feel the good. If they really do care for you, they won’t want to force you into something you aren’t fully into – relationship or anything else. They will be truthful about their intentions for you and follow through. I hope that helps you.
That does help somewhat, thank you. I have spent time with men who I am not attracted to. I’m usually very clear about being just friends. However once they start to want more of develop feelings for me, I get really disconcerted and then I need to reject them completely because now they have made it clear they want more than friends and I can’t give it, so then I feel really uncomfortable and do not want a friendship with them.
The guy I’m dating I’m pretty sure has quire a few red flags. In fact even if I was the right one for him, he’s not ready. However, we have chemistry and fun together and maybe that is enough while we both keep our options open. I’m almost 49 years old and I don’t want to kid myself that I can find a man at this stage that will want to make me his top priority.
Lovely Laura! the good news is I know someone who found the love of her life as a single mother at 52 and others will probably know of others at all different ages who have done the same. Age is NOT the deciding factor on whether you can find love or not. Self love is.
It is interesting that you are prepared to be in a ‘relationship’ – knowingly unloved back – yet you are not prepared to allow another person to be in a similar position as you?
From your own experience, you may have deduced unconsciously that YOU DO NOT switch off YOUR feelings when someone tells you that they are unable to love you — so you PROJECT this experience on to others when they love you.
Reality = Others may not actually be the same as you. This also may be another good excuse for you to distance love away from yourself? Either way you are in denial.
REALITY = ‘pretty sure he has quite a few red flags’!!
You sound to me like a good person who deserves, like the rest of us, to be loved for REAL! PLEASE spend more time finding love for yourself!!!!! (female friends, having good times, doing stuff that only makes you feel good, talking on BR, massages)
And until you feel great and I mean really GREAT! at what ever age you are and are ready to commit yourself to someone who can commit to you = emotionally available – DO NOT spend your time with anyone with red flags!!! (Especially if you believe you are safe and have it under control because you aren’t demanding love from them and they are happy with this!!!)After all Laura just how long have you got left to waste with a time-waster?
Wouldn’t it be nice just for once to experience real love, feel nuture and really cherished for who you actually are? Or are you hoping to be the one that turns him? just as you PROJECT onto the ‘nice’ men that apparently still want to turn you? But in reality may not actually feel that at all? They may want you to love them for who they actually are. It is tricky to work out the difference so…
Q. Do these ‘nice’ men change who they are to please you? Pretend to be someone else than they actually are in order to gain your affection? Never talk about things that are personal and totally uninteresting to you? Do they put themselves in harms way to please you?
Then….
Q. Do you change yourself or what you are doing in any way to please Mr Red Flagsss???? Do you put yourself in harms way to please Mr Red Flagssss???? (And include wasting your precious life in that list of harm.)
Thank you for posting this question Laura because I have experienced the same issues you describe, for about the same length of time and I’m sure there will be others…. I found it so impossible, just like you, for so long but now I wouldn’t hesitate to spend a single second with a truely nice emotionally available person/able to love themselves and others, who ever they are, what ever they looked like, if I can because I know for sure it is the right thing for everyone but best of all it is the right and loving thing for myself. Good luck…
Hi Laura,
About not being physically attracted at first – I think that if the guy seems like a good person and there is some kind of spark even though there is no lust or strong chemistry and attraction, we could give him a chance. If he is a complete turn off for several dates, than I guess it’s a No. If he does catch your attention and you are having fun with him, conversation wise and spending time with him, than I think, physical attraction might develop. I am not an expert though. All of my previous relationships were based on way too much initial physical attraction. So I am at loss there myself. Hopefully someone can give you and me a better insight. I am just saying what my gut feels.
Laura
You don’t know after 7 dates what’s up. Folks take a lot of time to unfold. Some folks are really good at hiding who they are. Dating takes time and involves the very real risk of being lied to/hurt. About the physical attraction issue: I would agree with previous commenters that give the dude a few dates, like 3-4, then if you still are unattracted, bail. I do not agree with purposefully spending time with someone you do not want unless its understood by both parties its a strict friendship. You don’t want to string someone along; that’s only cruel. We want what we want, and it’s hard if not impossible to force yourself to feel something that just ain’t there. Keeping someone around whom is raising red flags, that you understand isn’t going to work out long term, may result in a problem on your doorstep that does not want to go away. I too get approached only by men that are completely unsuitable, not just as to looks but also as to their financial/emotional instability. Probably because I come off as strong, stable, responsible. If you are being meeting men you want but being rejected, then taking a close look at how you project yourself may be warranted. If you are attracting men you do not want while meeting no one you do want, then you are in a wrong place or looking in the wrong places. We will all be approached by dudes we do not want, especially on line. Some men approach everyone. Our job is to understand what works for us, see red flags, and choose wisely and bail if neede
It’s complicated isn’t. I can talk myself out of dating just about anyone if I want to. Who doesn’t put out some red flags? I’m sure some people don’t want to date me for any number of reasons. I guess you either make a choice to put yourself out there and meet a lot of wrong guys or decide to work on yourself indefinitely and stay single.
We all have some degree of baggage/red flags if we’ve been around for any length of time. The big issue is whether the bsggage defines the person or have they dealt with it. There is baggage in the form of past relationships/experiences then there is baggage in the form of gross irresponsibility, serious emotional damage, etc. Yep, there plenty of folk that would not date me either, a situation beyond one’s power. We are rejected and we reject others. Dating is a real crap shoot.
I can see what you are saying – I agree you don’t know what another person is like after 7 dates – but you do know yourself – or you should do before venturing into relationships – and if you have spotted things that make you uncomfortable and they are also red flags (as in Natalie’s great post on amber and red flags), then to ignore them based on not knowing the person well enough yet is – a recipe for disaster at a postponed date.
If you set boundaries and/or address the issues fully and it never occurs again – then were they red flags in the first place? Weren’t they amber flags instead? You need to check the post yourself to work out if they are or not. Whether it is or not they are is an individual thing.
I’ve never had a problem with men I’ve been dating being nice and more in love with me, than me them – I wouldn’t knowingly date someone I wasn’t physically and mentally attracted to at all. That is leading someone on.
I have had a real problem with male friends I regularly see/ am in the company of/ or work with, falling in love with me, when I wasn’t physically attracted to them and felt really uncomfortable not knowing how to handle it other than to reject them completely and run in the opposite direction.
Now that I worked out who I am and what actually makes me feel really good through and through + know and avoid red flaggers completely/set boundaries for amber flags – I can see – one of those nice men I actually found originally totally repulsive physically – is actually a really really beautiful person AND I am finding red flag men totally repulsive…
Oona
Yep, we need to know ourselves and what does and does not work for us before even considering dating. And nope, no one should be dating someone they feel no mental and physical connection with. Red flags often crop up a tad later; financial stability for instance. Some things that appear to be red flags may not be when you get more information. Someone may be living with a parent for instance because the parent is living in their home and are being supported by them rather than the opposite. Yep, this thing about male friends becoming infatuated with one is a real problem. Dont know your situation but I have had seven of these within the past year and a half. There’s really no good way to deal with the situation without hurting the poor guy and rarely does my circle of male friends include anyone I could develop feelings for. Since the last wannabe stalker, I am very, very careful about who I befriend. It’s as though it is necessary to have as high a set of standards for friendship as for a rship. On the other hand, I’d feel awful about rejecting a guy as a friend for his being down and out, not being healthy, doing drugs of any sort, loving guns and other aspects of redneck culture which eliminates most older men here. No easy answer.
Laura,
You have probably gotten some signs already, but then, that may be my pattern rearing it’s head. I can tell pretty quickly what the problems might be, or what I won’t like. If you haven’t had any of this, keep dating. Also, give the not so attractive guys a chane too, I’ve had several not attractive guys that I started as friends with, then fell for them…however, I later wouldn’t accept that I fell for them and judged their looks, so I’m not great help there, I’m still working on that one. However, in my defense, they had some other shady behaviour and ended up being EU, except for one guy in my 20’s I just couldn’t accept not being attracted to him even though we had great sex. But I tried again with him still didn’t work and the good sex was no longer there. Tough one! Good luck!
You nailed my entire relationship history. I pick wrong, everything goes to Hell, but I’m used to it so there are no shocking surprises, like finally settling down into a long-term relationship, learning to compromise, sharing all my stuff, easing up on the thrill factor, ad nauseam.
I finally had to stop everything and put myself on a dating hiatus.
I have no idea what to do with all my new-found self esteem and boundaries, so I asked my higher power to figure out love, romance and relationships for me, and let me know what steps I should take next.
Meanwhile, I’m making art, watching some great Netflix movies, visiting and calling my friends and family, journaling, and most of all, finding peace in the state of doing nothing specific. Sometimes I just sit in a chair and do nothing except act like a zombie. They call it meditation.
I’ll try anything once.
Learning just To Be is more difficult than I thought it would be. With no agenda, it’s getting to be fun to feel adrift without some crazy new master plan for finding the perfect love.
The only hard part is when friends ask me what’s new and I just shrug and say, “Oh, Nuthin’.”
But anyway…
I’m not sure if the following fable exactly applies to your thread, but it reminded me of what you just posted, so here goes…
There was a little bird walking along in the freezing dead of winter. The dreadful weather wind made it too hard to fly, so he had to walk. He was so cold, his feathers were trembling, and the wind and snow were blinding him. He didn’t notice the cow walking toward him.
The cow looked down at the little bird on the verge of freezing to death, slowly turned around, lifted her tail and crapped a giant cow pie, covering all of the bird’s little body and most of his head.
The bird was outraged!
“Here I am, freezing to death and that awful cow adds insult to injury and craps all over me!”
Soon however, the little bird felt the warmth of the cow pie and he soon started feeling so much warmer and cozier, he started whistling his happy little bird song.
A nearby cat heard the familiar trill and skulked over toward the singing cow pie to get a closer look.
The cat said, “Oh my, Mr. Bird, how thoughtless was that enormous, rude cow to defecate all over your little body. Please, sir, let me help.”
The cat used his paws to gently remove most of the fecal matter.
Once the little bird was sufficiently uncovered, he shook off the remaining crap from his feathers. Like a flash, the cat lunged forward and ate the bird in one big gulp.
The moral of the story is”
Not everyone who craps on you is your enemy, and not everyone who takes crap off of you is your friend.
This is great thank you.
Karen, I love this fable. Where did you get it? Came up with it yourself?
I can relate to your current state of finding peace of doing nothing sometimes. Visiting friends, watching movies, meditating, being lazy, whatever. I am enjoying my peace too. I had a rough patch (weekends are worst) lately, but overall I am liking this peace all by my own. No questions, no drama, no anxiety. Just calm even if a bit too quiet sometimes. I think we need to use this quiet time to rebuild ourselves. Time will come. If no one for us comes around then we still have used it wisely for ourselves. Whether we end up alone or not we don’t know. But we might as well make the best out of it starting now!
Sorry, I didn´t really understand the fable. I get the part about the cat not being good for the bird – like charming ACs aren´t good for us – but cow´s crap? How can I justify someone crapping all over me?
LOL, Lilia…the bottom line is, people who (in your opinion) crap on you may be doing something you don’t like, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s crap.
EX: If I have a party and I see my friend is too drunk to drive and I hide her keys, she could say I’m crapping on her plans, but I’m just keeping her from driving drunk.
But people who take crap off of me may be too timid to set a boundary, so they let me keep giving them crap. But they tell others what an ass I am and don’t respect me, they fear me. They are not being true friends.
Aaaah!! Ok, that makes sense. Thank you.
Sofia, I got it from my Al Anon sponsor about 10 years ago.
Love it!
Karen, you just made me spit my morning coffee, laughing so hard right now. You’re in the same exact place I am right now (add iBooks to my weekends). I couldn’t give a crap either….. 😉
Finding myself in yet another cycle today and just don’t want to do it anymore. So tired of it.
Where do I start is the question? I know it is with me but I’ve been trying so hard and I move an inch forward and it keeps coming back at me.
My normal MO is that I am the lonely victim and others point the finger at me in gangs/large numbers/whole families.
And I’ve been trying to prove this all along – setting myself up over and over again exactly the same with everybody – I’ll probably do it here – which means I am not the victim after all. In the least I am co conspirator for my own pain.
I’ve got a new neighbour – male slightly younger than me – who I haven’t spoken to for 8 months – apparently – I have how ever – he’s been wound up by the other older next door neighbour who I went non contact with because I found him threatening & abusive & he wouldn’t respect my weak boundaries – also I felt he was creepily flirting with me – he must be 30 odd years older than me.
This older neighbour I heard winding younger neighbour up by saying to him whenever he saw him outside – have you spoken to oona yet? You haven’t!!!???? blah blah blah – you know how it goes….the inference I have perceived – is that he has being led to believe there is something wrong with me/ I am anti social – and they are bonding over a similarity – ie shared disliking of me/ my apparent poor anti social behaviour towards them.
In order to facilitate this they need to isolate me from them so they can think what they like and be unchallenged – by using aggressive tone/ words or using highly accusatory/judgemental behaviour makes me feel really uncomfortable/ freeze and not want to reach out to them/ be sociable – everytime.
So I become anti social. I become the victim all over again – what on earth is it I am not seeing? Have I really got to go up to them like nothing is happening and be friendly to them? What do I have to do to get some peace in my own home?
oona,
What you are missing is that these are stories you are telling yourself, but it does not make them true. If every interaction you have with people comes back to ideas of rejection, that tells you something about your beliefs, not about those people.
The truth is, you have no idea what your neighbours are really talking about, what they really think, and you don’t know for a fact that they don’t like you. The same goes for your family and the other large groups. People are generally far too absorbed with their own insecurities and wellbeing to be united in their dislike of you. If you are going to make it up, you might as well make it up good!
As soon as I find myself thinking “so and so must not like me” or “there I go, rejected again”, I stop myself. Usually when we think these things it is nothing of the sort. People are not responding to us with their every breath. They are just being themselves and doing what they can cope with. What other people do is not personal against us.
I usually, because it is a better feeling for me, go around assuming that people like me. It gives me confidence, *and* it makes me a more likeable person which in turn ensures that usually people do like me. If they are the kind of person I would rather not spend time with, I don’t ever make it about them rejecting me or “disliking” me. I just simply make it that we are not compatible. And isn’t that a better feeling thought?
Don’t eat yourself up worrying about what people may or may not be thinking and feeling about you. Focus on what makes you feel good, and on the people and things which feel good to *you*. You are the master of your own life, you are not a pawn being pushed around on the chessboard of other people’s.
Oona,
What other people think of you is none of your business.
It took me a while to understand that one and I live by it now.
It’s not about you, it’s about your crabby old neighbour who either hates women, can’t get a woman, never had a woman, is a nut case, has painful piles or whatever the current excuse de jour is! He’s pushing his own agenda and if he did make a pass and you looked at him like he was an insect, it could be sour grapes.
If the other new neighbour wants to listen to him, more fool him for not actually making up his own mind.
You don’t have to justify yourself or your existence to anyone, especially some old fart who lives next door.
If he is harassing/stalking you or coming to your door making a nuisance of himself, don’t hesitate to speak to someone and take legal action if need be.
The only thing you, me and many of us here on BR did wrong was to let these users and abusers get away with all their shady behaviour and even though we are unhappy and feel sick inside we don’t do or say anything to stop it as soon as it starts happening. That’s the mistake we make. I don’t do that anymore.
I have my own back and I’m in charge of me. What other people think of me is none of my business!
Oona,
I too grew up with a victim mentality and it took me a lifetime to figure that out. The way I deal with it now personally is I look for ways that I “fit in”. Ways that people show me what they like about me. Instead of counting all the slights I count the smiles, gifts, kindnesses, etc.
All that has changed is my perspective but I actually think people are treating me differently too. In other words the cycle is sort of broken. I don’t act offended, they don’t react defensive, words aren’t exchanged and feelngs aren’t hurt. This is just what is currently working for me.
I generally find that if you just treat people how you want to be treated yourself, and if you quell whatever thoughts you have that somebody doesn’t like you and just be your friendly non-judgmental self, completely disregarding their dislike (or possible dislike), and breeze right through with a friendly and genuine “hi”, it will really help YOU! Ultimately, people are going to judge you on how you treat THEM, not what someone else says about you. Often, there’s a backlash effect when someone tells someone something bad about you. The teller is seen as the not nice one, not you. Because the listener thinks, if he/she is telling me those things about this person, what are they telling other people about ME? So, I always suggest (for myself)…
1. Don’t make assumptions. (that’s a hard one, but try).
2. Be the person you want to be.
That’s all! 🙂
Ohhhh, I am struggling a bit today and feeling very bitchy and grouchy.
I have been really happy for months, and have been really in control and in touch with my emotions, and truly very, very at peace with being single, but today I am pissed! Actually it is from the last day or so, due to a few things ( and also PMS) I find myself in my old “comfort zone” of thinking really mean thoughts. It is so unhealthy! I used to be the kind of person who dwelled when I was angry, so this is a really uncomfortable space; I thought that I was past this!
Okay vent time:
Specifically, I am thinking mean thoughts about this woman who just got married to my ex, who goes out of her way to contact me even though I don’t know her. But before I say this let me state that I am NOT mad at them getting married, I honestly never even loved nor was I sorry to break up with him, in fact he kind of repulsed me in the end…it honestly is her contact that I have a problem with… it makes me angry that his new woman is so territorial and weird to me and going out of her way to contact me… I just need to vent.
Soooo ridiculous story and very immature….sorry but it is a bit of drama and it is not something I brought into my life.
Regardless, she has contacted me on two occasions and she seems hell bent on trying to make me feel like a loser because my ex and her are together, it makes me mad, to not respond. I have not, but that is what is making me mad;
To be specific, a week ago, she sent me a friend request on Facebook. I don’t know her, I don’t keep in touch with my ex, so I did not even realize who it was at first. When I looked at the profile, then I realized that this is my ex’s new wife: they got married recently, we have no friends in common, she literally had to have looked me up online, to send me the request. Not only that, but she had to have found out my last name, and looked through multiple mes, to find me.
It is kind of pathetic, but it opened a little wound: please let me explain …after my ex and I had broken up ( civilly, things were fine) a few months later, this same woman had contacted me, through a message in Facebook, asking me if I minded if she “announced” her relationship with my ex. It was pretty bizarre because I could have cared less, but by her asking it made me wonder 1) what he had been saying, to make it sound like she needed to ask me ( like was her trying to make it out like I was broken hearted, because he knew that I wasn’t) and 2) I just had this feeling….so I looked back through his Facebook ( we were still “friends” at that point) and…you get the picture…he had already been flirting with her, on her page, before we broke up.
I was mad. Not hurt, MAD. I could not believe that he had cheated on me! I wrote him a terse email, just to let him know, defriended him and boom, since then I have never spoken to him again.
I know I am being immature, but I am really sick of this neurotic, competitive, mean-spirited woman, contacting me! It was bad enough that she hit on my boyfriend when I was with him, bragged about it to me by contacting me a few months later, now, two years later, she is trying to let my know that they are married…what is wrong with her, that she is so bent on trying to rub my face in that break up?
I know that I should not be so mad, but I thought about it a lot: don’t laugh but…she reminds me of my crazy ex stepmother. My stepmother was really jealous of me growing up, so she basically banned me from the house. I went into foster care, and my dad, who was a total wuss, would occasionally visit me. She would call up my foster family, and say all these mean things about me, which were not true. She was so bitter, that I had a nice foster family, that she tried to poison that. They were great, and we still, 20 years later, are close, but it felt so powerless, to have to be a child and worry that her poison would maybe change my dynamic with my new family.
When I get in situations with people who are manipulative, and who try to mess with my life, it takes me right back there… I know, I know, I am not a kid, but it gets me so angry! I feel that anger, that I was never allowed to feel, before.
Okay vent over.
I will not respond to her, but man, do I want to: not for me, but for that little girl that I was. I want to tell this woman, that she is crazy ( just like my ex stepmother) that she needs to get therapy ( just like my ex stepmother) and that she is pathetic ( just like my ex stepmother).
Okay, vent processed lol. Thanks for listening ladies…I am so disappointed with myself; I don’t like fantasizing about mean things to say to someone. I am better than this:(
dancingqueen,
I am sorry for what happened to you as a child. It makes complete sense that you are angry. The anger is due to the hurt. I would say there is also some anger toward your father too, for not standing up to this woman and putting you first.
I believe the same thing. It makes complete sense. I also think there is some anger toward your father for not sticking up for you AND that your ex is just like him. You wish your ex would stand up to his current wife and stick up for you and tell her to leave you alone even though you do NOT want him back in any way shape or form. I understand that. Everyone wants to be protected and neither of the important men in your life did that for you.
Wowwwwwwwwwwwwww
So she has married him and still wants you to feel something about it. That is bizarre as f***. Keep ignoring him and her. Block her if you can asap. Do not engage!
As I read it – She (&stepmother) needs an ego stroke from yourself – by denying her any off the cuff explosion or reaction at all – she will take as meaning she does not have something you wanted, she may up the stakes but if you do not react emotionally = you win.
In order to keep her relationship going she needs to be validated – if she doesn’t get it from herself – like a crutch she may have learned to get it from significant others / a third person – ex lovers, siblings, parents, step daughters etc.. to justify staying in what is essentially to them an empty emotional relationship. So if she gets any hints that you valued and wanted to possess the relationship in any way that she now ‘possesses’ then she gets the signal that she has something of value and will hold on to it. A case of I have what you want so I can now feel good about myself.
If you were really mean to yourself and them and were solely bent on revenge for your anger at not having the relationships you deserve – you would have a go, forget yourself completely and live in their dramas – validating them to stay in their empty relationships.
This does not mean do nothing. If you must have contact with them – try setting boundaries.
For the ex’x wife try ‘you are sure she is amazing but you are not interested’ and leave it at that – no more conversation other than to repeat that you are not interested (same goes for unwanted interest from men) – only if absolutely necessary.
For your step mother that is more tricky because you may want to have polite family relations but without the nastiness perhaps you can discuss with friends or a counsellor how to set boundaries specifically for her that would work better for you – so you don’t feel like the only choice is either to do nothing or destroy her = empowering you.
dancingqueen,
We all have our slips back into patterns. I too can be prone to hold onto my anger. Don’t feel as though you haven’t made progress simply because you’ve had some angry days.
This woman sounds really insecure. I think she wants a reaction from you, and what will frustrate her the most is to be ignored completely.
Dancing Queen,
I know I’d be pissed if I were in your situation. Your ex’s new wife is acting like a crazy stalker! You’re right to ignore her, maybe should even consider blocking her on FB so she can never contact you again. It sucks when you’ve done a good job of moving on, and something happens to snag you up a bit. She must be insecure in the relationship or she would not reach out to you. No confident, sane person would reach out to an a partner’s ex in that manner. (I am friends with an ex’s girlfriend, but we’ve all been friend for years, such that I don’t even think of him as an ex anymore…)
Take care of your anger…It’s okay to be angry sometimes, to have feelings. Just remind yourself that you are safe now, and that you’re taking care of you. It’s just a feeling, and it will pass. It does not mean you’re stuck. A normal reaction to a crazy situation.
dq,
delete her from FB. And block her. She ain’t no friend.
fantasies are so ok. that’s what they’re for. so we don’t go out and do the real thing. of course, you felt mad. you’re human. totally justifiable.
all in all, you did good!
ps. next time (I know, I know — I hate it when people say next time to me but…) next time lol check who you are friending cause people do some weird s—! I had a friend who knew I had dated stalk-e Xbf ask me if it was ok to accept stalk-e Xbf’s friend request. My friend knew stalk-e Xbf only slightly from his childhood neighborhood. I said absolutely NOT and my friend said “no problem, I had a feeling he was friending me because of you. You know he would see all of our biking club photos if I accept the request.”
Thank you Natalie. I am so tired of watching my soap opera. I thought it was my one guilty pleasure (like the so bad that it is good reality tv shows), but its turned into a time wasting downer. Luckily its just one person in life that I do this over, so its time to change the channel.
I like the story Karen. I don’t think he deliberately shit on me… however its time to climb out of the cow pie : )
Or, what we believe is crap is not always crap and what we believe is help is not always help.
You are so correct. Am I willing to be “dead” right? I know that is an exaggeration but sometimes it seem to be so. I not only see with myself, I see it with the women in my life.
Like you implicated, am I willing to get off of my position and experience something new, unpredictable? I believe I am. Thank you so much for “stirring the pot” for me. Time to mix up my beliefs and explore new territory.
This is me to a T. My question is – how do I stop? It’s ruining my relationship and now I’m left wondering if it’s an unhealthy relationship that needs to end- or is it a normal relationship that I’m destroying through the anticipation/anxiety cycle? Ugh! I know this is me but I don’t know how to change! I’ve never heard this explained any better. Thank you for that.
Kim
Sometimes it’s easier to self-blame than accept that a relationship is not what you want
Ah yes, this played out time and time again from when I was 17-27. I’m now 28 and not even attracted to those kinds of guys anymore. It look me finding this site and reading through several posts to realise that their behaviour is not about me. I still have poor self esteem and I might always have but I can certainly treat myself with love, care, trust and respect. How can I expect anyone else to otherwise?
I am here to tell you that you can break the habit. It was almost instantaneous for me. I now don’t even attract those guys…why? Because I’m not giving off the scent of poor self esteem that believe me they can smell from a mile off…you need to be worried if you are attracting them because it says a lot about the vibe you are giving off.
You can and will be attracted to better men – who will treat you the way that deep down you know you want to be and deserve to be treated. While you are still attracted to the unavailables and assclowns, stop dating! You won’t die you know. It’s actually quite nice to have some time on your own not worrying about when that certain someone will turn and not being able to enjoy the good times because you know the bad times are coming.
I have honestly been on the floor with some guys. Suffering from depression too, when I had one of these guys in my life, I felt that my life wasn’t worth living. I still get messages from one Mr Unavailable who broke my heart again and again…he often asks for money or a lift to work and such like or just says he wants to see me ‘not because he wants money or sex’. Now I just roll my eyes and delete. I never thought that would happen.
Yes sometimes I feel lonely but I always feel much better than when I was with someone who made me feel bad for a short term high. I want a good, healthy relationship but I know I’ve still got some healing to do before I will attract what I truly want for myself.
Best wishes and love to you all. You can break the cycle!!! X
🙂
Dear Lauren
This post was my ah-ha moment! I’m 28 too and suffer low self-esteem and confidence. But since discovering BR, I don’t think I am attracted to ACs or EUMs anymore either. I also suffer from depression and loneliness, so this post was a bit like a journal entry for me, but with a lightbulb moment attached. Thanks a billion.
Nel
So well said, Lauren! It’s been pretty much the same for me too in that after stumbling upon this site a couple months ago, the change has been almost instantaneous. (I especially loved the “Now I just roll my eyes and delete” 🙂 )
Think of addictions (e.g. gambling).
Anyone who had done Psych 101 will know that INTERMITTENT REWARDS INCREASE BEHAVIOUR.
Addictions destroy our lives but they are self-perpetuating behaviours because “… we are getting a level of reinforcement, even if it’s only occasional.” “We want to see how it plays out.” “… justifying an unhealthy course of behaviour and thinking…” and “… the anticipation … that at some point it will happen, keeps us invested.” “We focus on how we feel OCCASIONALLY (my emphasis)”. “We… expect… ‘excitement’…” which “… activates the gambler in us that wants to see if we can be the exception to the rule…”
But what of the cost?
A focus on “… short-term gratification, without considering the COSTS (being broke/owing money/feeling ashamed, or IN THE CASE OF RELATIONSHIPS, “ never have had a mutually fulfilling healthy relationship/deep pain/ lowering our self-worth”) of continuing with our actions and thinking.” We “argue… that we have a strong case for continuing …”. And so, “… any good … times are used to justify continuing …and … the downturn reinforces our unhealthy beliefs and increases bad feelings.”
What is it in the relationship are YOU addicted to? The gambler chases the emotional moment where he is a winner… okay… worthwhile… lovable.
There is something called CONFIRMATION BIAS. It means we designate the things that reinforce what we already believe as “truths”, and reject those things that refute our beliefs.
“We are highly likely to adopt this attitude if we already hold unhealthy beliefs that we seek evidence to confirm that they are true, as opposed to challenging evidence…”
“… it’s very easy to get caught up in a cycle of engaging in an unhealthy pattern that only yields occasional ‘highs’ because we are used to grabbing onto evidence to reinforce what we’re thinking and doing.”
The key is to“… open up our minds to other possibilities and change.”
“The more we try to justify and reinforce that we are ‘right’ is the worse we feel.” “At what cost do we want to be right?”
Do you wanna be right or happy?
Got you. Thank you…off to do it now.
Rachel,
It is an addiction. I was doing good until I received the usual “I think about you all the time” text a few days ago and it was like I had just taken a Whig of whiskey. But then it turned into 45 minutes of me wondering what he meant by it. Then I spent time remembering how many times I have received crumbs like this from him, remembered all the humiliations, disappearing acts, disrespect, calls only after 9, etc. I quickly sobered up, but it has been a very difficult process to say the least. I have my moments of really wanting that drink of him, but I just make myself remember the negatives.
Rewind,
Interesting that his comment implies an ‘addiction’ to you. IF he truly were, I can see potential for a very committed co-dependent relationship. As it is, I would say he is full of sh_t… oh, did I say that? I meant he is very clever in telling you what he knows women who have vulnerabilities want to hear
Hey Racheal thanks for the affirmation. The thing is I am not really angry withy dad… He is not well and will not probably be around much longer… I really am irritated that my exs crazy new woman is trying to bother me via Facebook after having done it before, It is just creepy and cyber stalky and it makes me want to respond to say that,so that I can embarrass her. I don’t like my exs weird girlfriends/ wives nosing around in my photos etc. it is super weird!
are you the same Dancingqueen as the dancingqueen above?
Make the technology work for you. In Facebook if you block someone you cannot see them, they cannot see you. They cannot message you. Even if you had mutual friends and made comments on those friends timelines neither of you will see the other’s comments.
You will become invisible to her and you can get your focus back to you and all the incidental loveliness in the world 🙂
just a thought but some facebook friend requests are generated on others having your email address in their email list/ or you looking at their facebook site/ or googling their name – not them actually initiating a direct facebook request.
If you block them in your facebook settings and remove any email address of theirs from your email list that you may have – it should stop it completely. Also you may be unaware – but Facebook uses your email list to send friend requests from you to email addresses in that list.
I ended a 6.5 year on/off relationship with a Mr. Unavailable … He is now trying to get me to attend relationship counseling with him to “fix” our relationship and “fix” him b/c he says he DOES want all the things I want and does want a healthy relationship. Has anyone ever seen any success with this? I feel like there might just be too much past to get past and not sure I have the energy for this anyway.
Tina,
I think the first question is to ask yourself what YOU want – who cares what this guy has to say if ultimately, you’re over it and want to move on. You have every right to do so, and you don’t owe him anything.
If you want to pursue this, I think he should attend counselling on his own and be able to show you consistently that he’s changed and working hard on himself before you consider entering couples counselling with him.
Thanks Everyone… @ A, I agree. He def. starts everything with gusto but doesn’t follow through with much. I told him that if he is only willing to go to counseling for our relationship and not for himself regardless of whether or not I remain in his life, then it won’t work. I honestly doubt he has the capacity to dig that deep into himself. Thanks for everyone’s thoughts. We have been several days with NC b/c I told him I needed to think. And to be honest, I have been feeling so calm and content without him that I think that is my answer. Also, I think I have been holding on b/c we have a dog together and I’m not sure I can afford to keep the dog on my own… so was trying to keep that option of him taking the dog open. My 15 year old son told me I’m not a very good example of a healthy relationship for him and his 12 year old brother and that was quite an eye opener for me. Again thanks to all of you ladies for yout thoughts and input! Much apprectiated.
Tina,
What you have to ask yourself if he is “worth” it. My guess is if he is a Mr. Unavailable he is not. They don’t understand that sometimes they put you through so much that you just don’t feel like going through the nonsense. Sometimes it’s just easier to cut your losses and walk away.
Tina,
It sounds to me like too much water has gone under the bridge
Tina,
Honestly, 6.5 years is 6.5 years. If this was going to “work out” it would have. If you are labeling him Mr. U, then that is your answer. It isn’t going to work out. You know that. What he is saying sounds like bs to me. And I wasn’t there. Anyone that wants a “healthy relationship” just does it, they don’t need to reassure you that it’s what they want.
Cut the cord. If you can’t do it for you (at this time), do it for your kids.
All the best. <3
Natalie,
I am EXHAUSTED! Five months ago I got into a predictable situation, thinking I could handle it. When I realized it wasn’t working, I broke it off (first time for me). He wasn’t over his ex or hadn’t dealt with the divorce yet. Despite the fact that I ended it, I am feeling so low about myself. Why am I never good enough for anyone? With this guy, I tried to enforce no contact, but failed after a month. Initially he reached out, but then I reached out to him. He was very receptive and we briefly met for drinks on Saturday. We both care about each other and things were said that were ambiguous, but positive. Yet we didn’t talk about getting back together, etc. We’ve texted a few times since, but he has yet to reply to an invitation I have sent out to a group of friends for a get-together. I am driving myself crazy thinking he now has the upper hand and being perceived as clingy. At this point, I hate being in my head – it hurts. I started therapy last week because I recognize my low-esteem is activated when a relationship ends – no matter how long or short the relationship or whether or not it was mutual and amicable. I seriously have an issue with endings. I can’t seem to let go of the fact that I am truly unlovable – otherwise, why would they automatically leave. Everything in my life is so fulfilling – even my relationship with my parents even though I had a traumatic childhood. I’m reading, working out, seeing a therapist to gain a healthy perspective of myself, but I feel like I have made no progress. I feel like I’m worse today than a month ago. Help.
Bebesgal
“Why am I never good enough for anyone?” – This is your BELIEF, not fact.
“…failed after a month” – No, you tried and learned
“He was very receptive…” – I think you wanna check this out more. I think HERE is your payoff.
“… things were said that were ambiguous, but positive.” – seek clarity, always.
“… being perceived as clingy.” – so?
“…I am truly unlovable…” – here is another key, again a BELIEF of yours.
“… otherwise, why would they automatically leave.” – their behaviour has nothing to do with your value – separate things.
I am trying really hard to get past all my old patterns of choosing unavailable men, and letting them dictate pretty much everything. My dad disappeared ten years ago, and I have noticed a huge decline in my relationships with men ever since. I started seeing a guy a couple of months ago, and he went on holiday for a few weeks, sent one text at the start saying he was missing me, and then nothing. After a couple of weeks, I sent another text saying it was pretty crap of him not to get in touch. No reply. Until today, 1am in fact. He says he wasn’t going to ignore me until he saw that message, didn’t expect such a hard time when we’d only been seeing each other for a month, and that he’d thought he made a friend. He wished me ‘all the best’, reiterated that it wasn’t his intention to upset or hurt me, and signed off. I’ve had sex with this man, and listened to him tell me how we have this bloody amazing connection, and all that stuff- ‘all the best’?. So, I replied – ‘I didn’t sleep with you to have you as a friend, it’s not cool for you to put it all on me, and I think you have used me for sex, and signed off, too. No reply. I know I’ve done the right thing for me, but it really feels uncomfortable. My friends are all right behind me, but well, I guess I’m not right behind myself.
Shyner
“My dad disappeared ten years ago,…. a guy … went on holiday … and then nothing. …was pretty crap of him not to get in touch. No reply. . He… reiterated that it wasn’t his intention to upset or hurt me, and signed off.
“‘I didn’t sleep with you to have you as a friend….”
What DID you sleep with him for?
I slept with him, because I believed the things he said!
Shyner! You made a lucky early escape! Had you not called him out on his behaviour early on then I am sure he would have tried to pull another “get laid and on my merry way” act on you. His response proves that he is a creme de la creme AC. Arrogant and cowardice shitface! I pity all women who ever cross paths with him.
Good on you for sticking up for yourself!
RPxx
Whilst I haven’t got all of this right – getting into him too early being an issue – I feel a little more confident in myself & think I may have bolstered up my sense of self-esteem & self-respect a little, too. That’s why it feels uncomfortable, but that’s how I knew I was onto a good thing – outside my comfort zone. I would never have called a man on it before, or if I did I would have ended up apologising or backtracking. Writing about it really helps, because you can look back over it and clearly see where you’re going wrong! Yes, an early escape.
Shyner I know what you mean by initially feeling uneasy with defending yourself, especially when you aren’t used to it. Well done! It takes some guts to do it and maintain the confidence through it.
RP is right you have saved yourself so much heartache! – he was def. attempting to dump his guilt back on you with the text post holidays – otherwise why not answer straight away e.g.’you are doing my head in, relax, I’m really attracted to you?’.
I’m curious did you notice anything not right, respectful or loving towards you or others before he left/ were you hiding any thoughts from yourself?
Shyner,
I’m not defending him here, but were you guys in an exclusive relationship? If not, if you’d never had that conversation, he probably thought it was just casual. In fact, I’m coming to see that unless a guy steps up and claims you as his exclusive girlfriend, you can assume that they see it as casual.
I’m not saying you have no right to be hurt, I certainly would have been… just that you might want to think about being on a more committed footing (which would have given you a right to expect regular contact) before sleeping together. I have found getting this clarity to be absolutely essential before sleeping with a guy.
No, you have a good point. We hadn’t talked about it specifically but in future-faker stylee, he said a load of stuff that you could only really say to someone you were in an exclusive relationship with. Turns out, for whatever reason, those things he said weren’t true. Yep, I slept with him, because I guess in the end he could have said, ‘you are totally my girlfriend’, and not meant that either.
Shyner,
That’s the thing. He *could* have said “you are totally my girlfriend” and not meant it (though this would be a pretty lowdown, and I believe, rare, thing to do), but a guy who is truly in an exclusive relationship with you demonstrates it with his actions. He contacts you regularly. He makes plans to see you. He cares about making you happy. If these things are not present… sorry to say, it’s a casual relationship. I’m not judging. I’ve been there.
But I’m learning to not invest my feelings and expectations until these actions are consistently present with a guy over time, in order to *avoid* the kind of pain and disappointment for myself that you are describing.
He absolutely did all of those things – call me to make sure I got home from work ok (late trains), made arrangements for cinema a week ahead, came round and cooked dinner, phoned up just to say hi, bought the drinks. And then he disappeared for two weeks, and then downgraded me to ‘friend’ in a text. Feel much better about it now, though.
Dear Shyner
I can extend a sympathetic hug, because I’ve been there, done that (got the t-shirt, as BR reader No_more says!). So here goes – a big squeezy hug from Australia!! I hope I can add a different take on this story, based on my own experience.
Similar situation (just rewind one year). Thought we were in a committed relationship, was referred to as his girlfriend, we’d obviously slept together many times and had a terrific connection. Amongst other things, I am now able to see that he is a control-freak with many issues, but back then I was besotted, to say the least. He went away on a holiday, kept in contact when he returned, but things were different. I felt him pulling a slow fade, even though that week he’d been around to surprise me and mow my lawn (and jumped my fence with a lawnmower to do so, because I keep my gate locked). Anyway, I was still getting hot/cold/I’ve got no idea vibes, so I called him out on his crappy behaviour (and admittedly I was drunk and could have done it in a more polite manner), anyway, like you, I got a defensive reply text saying – sorry, he was busy, that I had made him feel like he’d done something wrong.
Well, wasn’t it all in your head, Nel! So of course I apologised, I offered to come around the next day to talk about things, I apologised in a third text – NO RESPONSE TO ANYTHING.
Like you – I’d slept with this guy, he had said things along the lines of ‘I can’t believe I feel like this with someone, I just feel like I’ve known you forever, we have such an an amazing connection’ – blah blah blah – and the very least I deserved was a fecking reply! I think what happened in both our situations was that these guys were boundary-busters from the get-go and when we asserted our boundaries, they ran for the hills. In the most cowardly way possible! I’ve bumped into the ex-d*ckface recently, and he ignored me!
Regardless of whether he thought it was casual or not, ultimately, in my opinion, you have shown him your strength, and your worth, and (as you have said) you just need to get behind yourself. You’ve done really well.
Nel
Shyner, you can’t wait until AFTER the sex to declare that sex is never casual for you. He thought it was casual….even if in the moment he said you guys had a “tremendous connection”. He meant that….but “tremendous connection” is not code for exclusive or long-term or continuing. It can still mean hit-it-and-quit-it. Are you saying you would feel better right now if in the moment he said “you mean nothing to me”?
Are you projecting your feelings and hopes….?…thinking that sex equals relationship? Not condemning. I’ve been there.
Yes, well, I’ve learnt a lesson there, haven’t I. Shoot me. Thanks very much for your positive response.
This post seems to tie in all of your most popular posts into one, quite seamlessly. Thanks for the mental refresher.
Right on the money as always! I am in the process of splitting from an abusive, toxic relationship/marriage of 15+ years, and now that my husband is out of the picture for (at least) the next several months I have a great opportunity to take a close look at my very unhealthy beliefs and relationship habits. I feel quite certain that I was able to get to this point, i.e., husband actually getting out of the house for several months by identifying my own core values and creating and enforcing boundaries. Thank you Natalie!
Hey Racheal, tee tee, derby, oona and a ( am typing on my phone so having a hard time scrolling back, think that I got everyone) thanks for the affirmations and perspective. I also just got my period today, so maybe that had something to do with my annoyance lol!
I will not respond to the exs crazy psycho despite wanting to tell her that her actions are weird and that she is super insecure and instead I will just thank the universe that I am no longer with my boring ex who was such a cheater on top of it. There is a guy out there somewhere who is perfect for me and even if not, I really am okay at this point in my life:)
Shyner
Sometimes we say things to get things off of our chest and the person we say them to is too selfish and unevolved to get it. It does not make it less true or right.
Stick here for a year and learn and watch. I guarantee you that you will get to the point that you will not engage with a jerk like this.
Flush!!!!
I have done a lot of reading, and thinking and believe me when I say I have come on in leaps and bounds. I’ve got over being such a massive man-pleaser, and forgiver/counsellor/understander. I’m much better than I was, but still have some way to go. There’s no way I would have called someone on their behaviour before, without backing down. I may have been unsure of myself this time around but I haven’t gone wimping back to him – just said my bit and moved on. I know the whole ‘say nothing’ is one train of thought, but perhaps I needed to test myself a bit. I have soon bounced back and remembered why his behaviour is unacceptable to me.
Yep it was a truely, truely a joyous day for me when I finally recognised an EU – before – getting into a relationship with him. It didn’t happen overnight for me. It was unfortunately a gradual learning with some consistently smaller mistakes and simultaneously an unravelling and understanding of my true relationships/patterns with close family alongside the ability to talk about all my mistakes or abuses of my trust, in a safe but honest environment, that has definately helped me kick it in the end.
Again this is just so insightful and helpful. I was reading somewhere that apparently regular meditation physically changes and rewires your brain. I was thinking that actually baggage reclaim has done just that. In the three years that I have been reading, absorbing and waiting with great anticipation for the next post, I can see that the way I think and feel about myself and relationships and my self esteem has changed beyond all recognition. And it feels permanent not just something I am trying to convince myself of. So I think that Natalie, you have changed and rewired my brain! Thank goodness you use this super power for good, ha ha, you could take over the world…! Thank you for all you do. X
This!
I managed to make A’s this past semester at uni… (in my art classes). yay.
I’m not sure how much more uncomfortable I can get:
I’m dealing with bed bugs in my apartment (yes, I have done everything appropriate I need to do and if I hear another ‘get rid of them method’ my brain is going to explode’). I just need to “out” myself about it and say I am sad and angry as I have reactions to the bites, i.e., they itch, hurt, and sometimes leave scars.
My grandmother was recently diagnosed with breast cancer. (I really wish it were me instead of her; I’d take her place in a minute).
I recently ended an online ‘thing’ with the only man I sincerely liked since the ex. I wanted more; he just wanted pics of my vagina.
I really want to work; I’ve been unemployed for so long. I am scared shitless to work as I have insomnia (thanks infested bed) and a learning disorder. I am so sick of being labeled ‘stupid’ and ‘slow’ which happens every time I try and work. But money is running out.
I am very uncomfortable.
Peanut,
This sounds like a rockbottom time for you. Know that you are not alone we have all been there in one form or another. When things get so bad for me I do what I like to call as “put some things in my plus column.” I do this to try to outweigh the bad with the good. I don’t know what your plus column items would be but some things that work for me are music, yoga, friends (not the frenemy ones), good food, a good stiff drink (if addiction not an issue), a bath, a great book, holding a puppy or kitten etc. These things might sound trite but it sounds like you could use some good stuff. My sister had breast cancer this year and beat it! Find a friend to review your resume and by golly find a bed bug expert as soon as possible. Love and blessings to you. it will get better.
Peanut,
Sadness and anger completely justified. Bed bugs are a bloody nightmare. I am sorry about your grandmothers situation. I hope it is rectified soon. Being labeled stupid isn’t the same as BEING stupid
Sorry to hear this news Peanut. My Mum got breast cancer in her late 30s and is very well now. The survival rates are good for those detected early. Big hugs to you all.
@furry white dogs, nat attack and igotout thanks for your feedback. I deleted her FB friend request and felt instantly calmer. I think that it is true that she wants a reaction and is insecure and won’t get one from me.
Hopefully she will end up feeling embarrassed at some point:)
Laura,
I did every one of those today! (oh. minus the reading & yoga–but those would be good too). Plus I saw a cheesy rom com today with a good friend. And I near cuddled my dog to death (she survived ;). I also made some time to visit my grandmother. So far she is strong and optimistic.
I’m the one that’s losing it.
My head is still spinning and I’m learning to ask for help/company. It’s still hard but I’m getting there. I hope this is bottom.
rachael,
Thank you. I sometimes forget that I’m not necessarily what someone says I am.
The thing with No Contact is that it’s starting to work really fast with me. Like eerily so. (I still break no contact with the ex by creepin’ on his Facebook). Come to think of it, I’ve never gone too long without looking him up (I guess I just played it off as not breaking contact).
I have a history of having deep, painful longing like physical attractions to men. I’d then let all the fantasies of being in a relationship play out in my head. I just wanted to feel what it felt like to be loved and payed attention to.
I keep the contact to keep the fantasy going.
Though I’m not continually contacting the ex in a way he knows it, I’m still breaking No Contact.
I am commiting to a 100% no contact with the ex. No social media stalking.
I’ve had a few intense crushes since the ex and after no contact, I’d be so busy with my own stuff I’d completely forget about them.
Nat is right; they’re not that special.
Peanut,
“I just wanted to feel what it felt like to be loved and payed attention to.”
You seek something that was missing when young? If so, this is a good thing! You recognise an incorrect belief that you “are NOT lovable or worthy of attention” and the pain that follows. Problem is, you look for resolution externally. No man can change your beliefs and it is not reasonable to expect him to.
Each of us has worth at birth… had we all had nurturing loving and unconditionally caring relationships as children, this site would not exist
x
I can relate to the “Like eerily so”
Like how fast I can feel better sometimes.. then you gotta wonder well ghee how much did I love him really then?
Oh, I should be in torment just like he would like me to be, and just like expected to be, and just like it’s always been, becasue hell.. that is what we are taught love even was.
Gotta love it when later even MORE things get mixed into the bag, like he can do it but you can’t, and if you do were through even though your were not really having anything anyhow, LOL!
Your gonna get even LESS than the LESS you had if you DARE to be happy without me.. even though I am with her damn it.
rachael,
Superb comment. That really clicked when you said a man can’t change our beliefs.
I have gone around thinking and acting as if the right man would make me feel loved and therefore the belief that I am unlovable would be put to its final rest.
Well that has not worked.
Ditto on that – And how often did that ruin the FUN?
Most likely 100% of the time like in three months time, and all the adventure, and all of the on and on.. just ruined for me or used to anyhow.. Absolutely ALL of my own creativity, and then what you do end up with? Someone that is the same way just in different ways I think.
It’s like two types immaturity forming together, we may have often the moral maturity on our sides, But I think the emotional maturity was left on the back burner, Maybe even ignored just to be with some donkey.
re-bounders are a perfect example of what we end up with, LOL!
I have been reading Baggage Reclaim every night this week. Natalie’s observations are SO ACCURATE. I believed that the emotionally unavailable man I was seeing was different and that the red flags weren’t really red flags. He’s not what you describe as an AC — actually usually a thoughtful and compassionate person, but just an old 1960s-type radical/hippie, with no boundaries or sense of limits. But…. Until last week, when I found out he had been seeing (just “seeing” not dating) a woman that he met WHILE ON A DATE WITH ME.
We were at an event. I was talking to a friend for about five minutes and he started talking to this woman. When I joined them, the conversation continued pleasantly enough, and then he and I left to go home, but then she asked for his phone number. (Who does that?)
When I found out that he was seeing her (but “not dating”) I said that there are boundaries in a relationship, and seeing this person was not okay. We went around and around in LONG CONVERSATIONS and he can’t seem to understand that this was a non-negotiable point for me.
Things he said —
– “I’ve never had anyone tell me who I can and can’t associate with.”
– “Oh, so if you want to make me all bad and wrong.”
– “I miss you, but I understand that you want space apart from me.”
– “I didn’t think jealousy and manipulation were part of our relationship.”
Oh, but then I remember that even before this happened, I was going to break up with him for a dozen other reasons. Most (not all) of the boundaries that Natalie describes have been major problems. So I’m really glad to have found this site and I guess I will keep reading. Maybe he IS SPECIAL AND DIFFERENT, but almost everything here rings true. Sigh.
Andante,
“I said that there are boundaries in a relationship, and seeing this person was not okay.”
You say this like its a fact. Truth is, it is NOT a fact for everyone. People have different views. It may be YOUR view, but I think it is important to express it as YOUR view, rather than a fact. This is because it sounds like it is something you expect him to adhere to and that would create resentment at the least. He may or may not wish to apply this value to his life. All you can do is ask and the choice is his.
Uggh… I guess I’m “done” with this website. Kind of harsh.
Andante,
I certainly did not intend to sound harsh. Most know by now, I am a straight shooter. I stand by what I said and I will not take responsibility for YOUR choice to be done with the site. My comment was my honest viewpoint. Maybe I misunderstood you, but these things happen a times.
It’s hard to do that is for sure when you have family members saying things like “we just pick out bad men in our family.”, Almost like well this is gonna be your fate becasue this is how it’s been working, and yet you need to change your thinking? and I am left with.. well which one is it then fate OR my thinking?
And I mentioned: well as a matter of fact NO this is not just the women in our family but many families, especially having lacked a father figure or having had a poor father figure that really is where it often starts, Maybe for some it was some other close relative.
But yeah it starts young the negative thoughts, Mix it up with less than desirable repeated experiences, Mixed messages, and it is hard to leave less than fair or loving circumstances.. you just haven’t seen anything else.. you know it’s out there and know how you would like to feel.. but haven’t even felt it or had it yet in reality, and that can make it scary to even try when you have been alone for a long time getting a NEW wardrobe as I call it.
But I just keep telling myself that I DO know about all the crappy things and feelings that I DON’T want anymore of, and maybe that is good starting point? Maybe it’s not enough but it’s a great starting point… or measure in some way.
I really don’t feel like getting my NEW wardrobe destroyed this time around, it took so long to work at gaining a new one.
Question: Does anyone else have a fear they could start crying uncontrollably if they were treated really good, becasue sometimes I think or am afraid that would happen, I odnt know if it’s from years and years of nothing for ME or what that is about but wish that would leave too.
Any thoughts on that Natalie how to combat that? I really don’t want to cry anymore just from the thought of actually getting something for myself anymore.
Andanete,
Dont give up on this site I have been 1year and 6 months no contact and am enjoying a nice peaceful life, yes with hassles in between 🙂 This is your boundary and so you had a right to express this, how would he have felt if the roles were reversed?? You already had red flags or things that didnt make you feel comfortable so you are learning to flush, good for you and hugs x