One of the things that can prove to be a tricky balancing act is knowing that line between blame and responsibility. Some people think that they’re one and the same thing but blame, which is really a focus on finding fault rather than positive, decisive, growth-led action, is either about being a blame absorber, so taking so-called responsibility for other people’s feelings and behaviour, or about avoiding responsibility by putting not acknowledging our part no matter how small or seeing it as other people’s responsibility to make us feel or act better.
When we have struggled with our self-esteem and figuring out where others end and we begin, we can end up vacillating between taking all of the blame or none of the blame.
The reason why we don’t find that middle ground (responsibility) is because of the responsibility. At either end, we do not have to see our part or even the truth and instead, we can keep persecuting us with the lie that supports the belief that everything is our fault and that we’re “not good enough”. We can remain in our uncomfortable comfort zone and we do not have to be vulnerable and face our innermost feelings and thoughts or take action.
Blaming ourselves (or others) can be a handy safety net that helps us to avoid vulnerability.
In order to transcend past experiences and exit the disappointment cycle which is the lather, rinse, repeat of doing the same thing (our pattern) and expecting different results, we must accept responsibility for us. We must recognise that we are the main provider in our life and that we’re responsible for taking care of our needs, expectations, desires, feelings and opinions. If we do not like the choices that we make, we cannot keep looking around for somebody else to come along and make it alright.
Adulthood is about unlearning all of the unproductive and in some cases, downright outrageous bullsh*t that we picked up in childhood.
We have to parent us. That is not something that we learn overnight, much as no parent knows everything the moment that the baby makes its entrance, and is instead something that we learn over time through trial and error. We have to figure things out for ourselves and discern what feels good and right for us from the chatter.
We discover that our parents are not “perfect” and infallible (even if they’ve told us that they are….) and that the world is not a giant-sized replica of our childhood.
Sometimes we don’t realise that we are responsible for us until we’ve already run the gamut of various toxic relationships and situations where we try to get people to fill parental voids or we finally exhaust ourselves trying to get our parents or other family members to change. It suddenly becomes painfully clear that these people have played their part but if we continue to keep looking to someone else for salvation, security, and validation, we will not ascend into our true potential and enjoy our life because we’re too busy keeping ourselves small by living in the past.
It’s important to note that taking responsibility can be hard if you have spent your whole life feeling excessively responsible for other people’s feelings and behaviour due to your upbringing. Adulthood comes along and it’s like, Feck! I’m exhausted! When is somebody going to come along and take responsibility for me? Where’s my childhood?
If you’re wondering how to go about taking responsibility: it’s about intention and action combined with commitment. Life has no guarantees or a crystal ball so you have to commit to your responsibility without knowing exactly what that’s going to look like (all of our journeys are different and we’re all unique after all) or how your life is going to unfold. Sometimes when I talk to people about responsibility, it’s as if they want some big booming voice to say, It is safe for you to take responsibility. Nothing bad is ever going to happen. Fly my pretty!
Sometimes we are afraid to take responsibility because we fear that something big will go wrong and that it will hurt or that it will be hard to deal with.
Unfortunately big things will go on in your life and if you don’t take responsibility for you, you will not be taking care of you which means you will not have the support system of your self-esteem and the positive relationships that this yields, to help you through. Self-esteem offers you some protection and resilience.
Whether you take responsibility or not, you’re still responsible for your feelings and behaviour. They’re yours. When you take ownership of them, it does not mean that when people behave like jackasses and attempt to tap dance all over your boundaries, that it’s your fault. What it does mean is that how you respond (feelings, thoughts, actions) is down to you.
You can’t know that a feeling is going to show up or that a thought will, but it’s what comes next that is your responsibility.
Taking responsibility means owning your own and letting others own theirs. Honour the separateness. Each time you take ownership of other people’s feelings and behaviour, you’re telling you that you don’t matter while letting them know that they don’t have to take responsibility for themselves around you.
People are going to p*ss you off and life is not always going to go as you like. What are you going to parlay these experiences into? What are the things that you will say (internally and outwardly) about you as well as do, that will either intensify and multiply ‘bad’ feelings or help to get you through? It is more than OK to feel upset but be mindful of the part that you play in extending pain.
The thoughts that you feed you and the way that you treat you, matters.
Taking responsibility means taking ownership of your needs, expectations and desires instead of putting it on others to fulfill them. It means taking responsibility for getting to know and be you instead of expecting others to know you deeper and in more detail than you do yourself.
It means being responsible for your development instead of expecting a parent to fill in those gaps or to make up for what they were not able to in your childhood. To expect this is only to set you up for pain.
There are times when I have felt so angry and lost but I have learned that I only begin to feel better when I am willing to take responsibility for me. I’ve had to learn how to go from the inside out and use self-care to adapt my responses because I cannot control the uncontrollable (another form of trying to avoid responsibility).
Taking responsibility means not focusing on blame. It means figuring out what your next move is as well as what’s yours, what’s theirs, and what if anything, you need to learn and work on in order to transcend that experience. One of the things I’ve learned about blame is that you can’t do any good with it. Blaming leads to shaming and you can end up feeling helpless because blame is a very narrow viewpoint that lacks compassion and empathy. Responsibility is in the present and gives way to a brighter future, blame has you based in the past. Decide which direction you want to go in.
Your thoughts?
And don’t forget that the new BR podcast, The Baggage Reclaim Sessions, is now available to listen to on iTunes and Soundcloud. Not sure what a podcast is? Fear not, there’s a guide.
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With sane, rational adults, when we have a dispute we agree to take some time, think things over and try to find our part in the dispute, since the only people we can change is ourselves. It takes practice and willingness, but it can be done, especially with 12 step people or those familiar with the steps.
Blaming is so childish–it should not be done aloud.
With people like my ex, a narcissistic, sociopath, passive aggressive, liar and cheater, I caught all the blame and she was never wrong and she refused to apologize for anything, ever. When she betrayed me and I got angry, she twisted it around to be about how my temper scared her. LOL, what a bitch.
Those types look for co-dependents, or at least sincere, nurturing, loving people whose hearts they remove and eat.
Once I figured out her game, it’s totally over, no contact, no fond memories, and no plans to cross paths again. I didn’t even say goodbye- narcissists probably take weeks to notice one of their crumb nibblers is gone, anyway. And then they’re not about to show weakness by asking what happened.
At least I left with the decent qualities I came in with, the ones she tried to steal from me, and she’s probably gnawing out some new victim’s heart.
Meanwhile, her poor, enabling wife is likely thinking she’ll never cheat again. I guess she thinks everyone on Pinterest takes 4 hours every night to pin two pictures.
“When she betrayed me and I got angry, she twisted it around to be about how my temper scared her.”
OMG. lol. Something like this happened to me, too, except it was not betrayal per se, but things he did that really pissed me off. Passive aggressive stuff. He twisted it around, so *I* had to apologize. And then he claimed that my temper had scared him and traumatized his 11 year old son. LOL
thank you for this post Nat it is very much on time! This is something that I am learning to do everyday. As a child of a narcissistic mother, consequentlyhad to become a container for my mother’s,/family shit as a matter of survival in my childhood. I took that into my young adulthood unknowingly, but voluntarily.I would see that people were shit people, throwing other people on the bus, not reno the people good, but as a blame observer I would personalize it and say to myself yeah I see them doing this in that but they won’t do that to me you because I will give them a reason to. And that’s what I thought for the bulk of my life.even when people were mis treating me, I would personalize it thinking that if only did decided that then they would stop doing what they were doing. But I couldn’t never ever ever find out what the heck it was that I was doing to make them act and react that way.no real sense of jeez this is a bad person toxic person abusive person get away from them I was too busy personalizing owning their s***. I was the village scapegoat in punching bag! I used to think if I could just, if I could just, if I could just, if I could just, if I could just, then they would…. I always likened myself to a lost abandoned puppy desperate to find a loving home.after much continual work, enjoying this site included, I think I do a pretty good at least much much much improved job of recognizing what is mine and what is theirs. the only way I could separate from my mother’s issues was to separate from her. I am not willing to go the rest of my life being a container for her issues…or anyone elses. no results in me being very selective of who I deal with. Even going to the point of not interacting with certain guys because their energy does not work for me. It doesn’t have to be a big blow up or a big hate thing between me and them it’s just I know their energy is not going to be good for me. As far as men go how I want to entertain happy healthy and whole men. I am NOT looking for any projects lol. No broken wounded, that one time in band camp, violin playing in the background every time he comes by type guy. I used to gravitate towards guys like that.and now for the life of me I can’t tell you what I was thinking back then. It’s like looking at two different people.I assume it was because I was wounded. and called myself giving them what I wish somebody would have gave me then they would be committed and loyal and thankful like I would be committed loyal and thankful (projection). Never worked. plus what the heck do I want with a guy like that? Exclamation mark and if I will accept the guy with all these issues then why in the neck should he do better?I am so glad that I have learned and am learning to let people on their own stuff and learning not to own their stuff.and learning to ask myself okay this is the fruit that they are bearing, this is the energy that they are putting out there they are doing this, is this something I want to deal with or is it not something I want to deal with?it isn’t up for me to fix it, find out who abused them in their childhood, or go into the if only I if only I if only I then they would. No no. they are being them like I am being me. I am relearning everyday that I deserve to have a great guy / great people around me who are beautiful people in their own merits. And they are that way all on their own. some of my favorite sayings are and I am not a container for other peoples shit, and other people are not my job.
Its so hard for me to remember to NOT make my ex’s behaviour and severe lack of committment to anything (relationships, decisions and everything), lack of empathy, lack of compassion etc, about me. We still communicate but are no longer together and haven’t been in years. I know we can’t
be together. Even as “friends” (and I use that term loosely), I’m always left feeling
bad and obsessing over things he’s said
that I find insensitive or painful. And instead of taking responsibility for continuing to
speak to one another and not 100%
removing myself from the situation, I
continue to be reluctantly and cautiously
receptive because I’m honestly so lonely and end up feeling guilt and blaming myself for him not wanting to fully committ to something with me (even tho he’s totally incapable of a full on loving committment of any kind and I know this) but I can’t seem to absorb consistently that this isn’t about me! And I need to be responsible for what I’m NOT getting here, and stop being even remotely receptive to crumbs! Its been years. I’m so tired of this. But so lonely and at times in need of feeling wanted/needed. Its such a pathetic sad bloody cycle.
Tyla, this kind of cycle leaves you lonelier than you could ever be without it. I’m sure you’re aware of this but know how hard it is to break away, took me years. The sooner you do it the better though, you will have less lost time to deal with. Once you’ve made a decision and stop being a hostage to it, things improve immediately. Have you read up on Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, and on No Contact? You’re not alone. You have so much to look forward to when you stop handing your emotional wellbeing to someone who isn’t looking out for you, and get your life back.
Well, After a brutal breakup in 2014, I got involved in a not so lasting not-so-relationship with an EUM for 5 months. In my mission for getting this guy that I “wanted” I ended up loosing time getting involved in petty dramas when in reality I just didn’t want to be alone. I wanted attention and validation because I was broken. I needed distractions or some sort of salvation. So I ended it. After I forgot all about this guy, 1 month later, he starts writing me again and, oh surprise, I didn’t even care anymore. Back then I was feeling desperate and fearing rejection and abandonment and I was not seeing things for what they were. That is the problem when you “want” something You can get so blinded that you can miss huge signs and huge facts that tells you he is not for you. (or hey! you don’t even like him that much what the heck!) but we want them to like us and love us because we are not loving ourselves.
I started dating again another guy only few dates till now but I already know I need to stop it.. because I am not enjoying it. I want him to like me so much that I am acting out. He broke up with his ex 4 months ago (3 year relationship) and he seems very EU. I just can feel it now. He’s off. He tries to be nice yes but he is not quite there yet. And it is my responsibility to choose my peace of mind this time. It’s very difficult to stop these patterns but this is a practice, the reconstruction of your selfsteem,holding your boundaries, winning yourself back. Once you are being true to yourself, you won’t settle for anything but the truth. No more shady people. No more shady relationships. No more hot’cold. No more bullshit.
So true, Anya…once we begin to get real about loving ourselves, we won’t settle for the crumbs and the BS these “man boys” throw out to us. I finally went NC (5 weeks now) with my ex (Narc) husband, stopped dating altogether, and sought out a wonderful female therapist. Taking a break from romantic relationships, even dating helps me feel more peaceful, grounded and creates more space to love myself first and foremost. I realized I was way too EU to get wrapped up in another dead end relationship. No more BS is right!! Good for you!
“Adulthood comes along and it’s like, Feck! I’m exhausted! When is somebody going to come along and take responsibility for me? Where’s my childhood?”
That is my 20s right there! I had the grief of a whole family on my shoulders from childhood into adulthood and that created its own victim mentality, and disappointment in others that they wouldn’t fill the huge emotional void. And now most of the time, it’s just my curious, excited little head on my shoulders. Who knew adulthood and responsibility could be so free and fun?
“And now most of the time, it’s just my curious, excited little head on my shoulders. Who knew adulthood and responsibility could be so free and fun?”
Oooohhh, Happy B, you put it so brilliantly! I was finally beginning to move into that way of being when the ex came back and ruined everything by re-occupying me. It took a hard fight over a whole month, but I got rid of him permanently and now I am finding my way back to that magical place 🙂
im still struggling with who’s to blame if any or how to handle certain situations that are not typical of ex boyfriend stories.
I was involved with someone that can be described as unavailable, he would stand me up, ignore my calls or text, get in contact months later, disappear and as anything other girl coming to this site for advice I kept on with the drama fueling my low self esteem even losing my virginity to him and not hearing from him after for almost a month. I wanted to get past this situation so I sought out a relationship advice expert like yourself. At the time I was extremely vulnerable & incredibly lonely & my self esteem incredibly low & I began contacting him every single day about general issues, life issues, past trauma issues as well as dating issues. He helped me in deciding to seek a therapist. I saw one for a little while but felt more comfortable confiding in him as if he was a therapist. Almost a year later into him giving me advice he stated that he felt protective of me and that he’s grown to love me. I questioned his motives but he explained he had gotten to know me through the months & sees my positive qualities. The reason I was confused & taken back is because he’s a married man. He wanted to arrange to meet In person. So we did long story short we ended up sleeping together in what was probably the worst & most lowest experience of my life. He blocked me from contacting him, so I reached out through email he stated he wanted to continue giving me advice because now he knows how he can help me even more that he sees my issues clearer. I stopped contact with him, but regained when I thought I might be pregnant. I wasn’t. We then began talking regularly him calling me at night & initiating phone sex and me continuing to seek advice. He never stopped giving me advice. I couldn’t get past it & would argue & blow up on him, he began to ignore me. I decided that I couldn’t take this anymore that I didn’t want anything to do with him. He never responded. 3 months later I wrote him again not sure why he of course did not but I immediately recognized it as a mistake & blocked him from all communication.
There’s a huge part of me that entirely blames myself, I was vulnerable, naive, stupid. I feel disgusting & shameful. And his lack of ever reaching out to apologize or even acknowledge his fault has caused more distress as if I wasn’t even worth that much.
If it had not been for me getting involved with the original assclown I would not have been involved with the second. I’m trying to get over both at the same time and am not sure where to place either of them. It’s like he manipulated me and took extreme advantage of me when I was down but I also realize my part and my mistakes and have stopped dating to heal and repair my esteem.
Your website has helped me tremendously with realizing my worth and getting past the first assclown. Under the circumstances of the advice expert it’s hard to not place blame on me but also not on him to call him a horrible person.
Hope
This is terrible, he has abused a position of trust and professionalism and you are in no way to blame. You sought advice for all the right reasons and have been let down hugely. I’m no expert but I recommend a female therapist to talk through what has happened, both before and after. Look after yourself.
Yoyo
As I understand you, Hope, this man was not a professional therapist, but you decided you’d let him be your “pseudo” therapist, because you felt he was kind and loving. In your heart of hearts, can you see how you were fooling yourself? You were hoping to get your emotional needs met by him. The minute we use “hope” as a reason to enter a relationship, we are lost.
He enjoyed playing the “therapist game”. Every man enjoys being put on a pedestal, as if he is some kind of all-knowing entity. But he was just playing a game, with the goal of getting sex from you when the time presented itself.
It is time to forgive yourself for the mistakes you made. It is also time to close the door on getting any type of validation from the men you’ve known in the past. Just put them in the “Lessons Learned” folder and MOVE ON. Stop contacting this latest man, in any way, even for an angry conversation. Don’t you see that your contacting him for any kind of conversation is all about your needing to be validated by him?
Validation can only come from yourself. I do understand that where you are in your emotional development right now, you find it hard to believe that YOU can validate YOU. It’s all over your post – very telling in that line that “his lack of ever reaching out to apologize or even acknowledge his fault has caused more distress as if I wasn’t even worth that much”. That line says you still want him to say you are worthy. Don’t you see…?….you have to LET HIM GO and SAY TO YOURSELF that YOU ARE WORTHY of so much more than him.
Your post tells me you have a long arduous journey ahead, because you have a deep lack of self-worth. You have work to do, to figure YOU out. There is a sunrise at the end of all your pain, I know because I have been in your shoes, and I think I have made it to the other side. Very much with the help of this blog.
My particular ACMM recently booty texted me after 10 months of not having any text exchange, and over a year of no physical contact, proximity, or conversation. The thing I noticed is his attempt to press the reset button twice this month, and how I realized his reaching out must have an ulterior motive. I did not respond..and then…I picked up my phone this past weekend and saw 3 after-midnight contact attempts made by him. I know that it means that it was his one-night-a-year-stay-out-as-late-as-you-want pass from his wife, and he was seeking to fill the 90-minute booty slot with me. And it all rolled off off me like….detangled hair balls. No angst, no anger…just another firm confirmation that he never cared…and so what. He is not important. BR teaches you that these people are not important. That is what you learn when you start loving yourself.
Thank you ladies, the situation is so hard to seperate because he wasn’t a boyfriend, we never even flirted before it went downhill. I was doing so good this past few months with NC before I messed up and reached out and it had me feeling low again. It’s interesting to me that he was just playing games to get sex when it completely contradicts his job. I wonder if this is something he’s done to others or will continue to do. I honestly think he’s a sociopath. But in my case I’ve decided to let it go and move past both situations for good! I accept responsibility for my part but My emotional state has had enough of putting myself down because he could never acknowledge his part. Moving on!
Thank you ladies.
Ladies please help!
A guy from my work has asked me out. I’m 29, he’s 23. I’m not attracted to him at all. But he’s very sweet and helped me a lot one night when I was feeling upset about something at work.
NML seems to say sometimes that if you’re not interested, then flush. But other times, she says people unfold.
I think this often happens. Guys we are not attracted to become interested, we are not interested and reject them for guys who are EU AC. I know I have, plenty! But on the other hand, if we give guys a chance we were never super interested in the first place (which I have also done) they can end up hurting us even worse. Usually right after they have won us over.
This has happened to me plenty before and I’ve always reacted in the exact same way. Which is – I’m not attracted. I’ll tell him so straight away, so as not to lead him on. But I’m wondering if I should do something different this time.
So-True, In general, getting involved with someone you work with is a recipe for disaster. I personally won’t do it. Been burned twice.
Since you asked, I’d say…you seem like a great guy, but I don’t date people I work with…or something like that. Or, if you do date people you work with and don’t want to date him. I think you’re great, but…whatever kind reason you can come up with…
You still have the opportunity to get to know him without the pressure of a date and if you discover that he is a great guy and that you are, in fact, attracted to him, you can revisit the whole date thing.
Veracity,
I understand what you mean. I’m wary of dating people I work with too. I’ve done it before with not terrible results but mostly just awkwardness.
I’m also not 100% sure if I’m ready to date again after my ex EUM who basically ripped my heart out. It’s been 6 months of NC and I’m feeling happier and stronger in myself than ever. But still not sure about dating again right now. Not sure if that means I shouldn’t though or that I’m just using it as an excuse to stay in a protective EU bubble of my own. I don’t want to be fearful of dating, relationships and men forever.
So yep, pretty confused…
Also I find that once you reject a guy, even in a small way, they tend to get quite upset and wont consider you again in the future. So I don’t think it would be a possibility in the future if I say no now. But that’s his stuff I guess, not mine. I have to think of me, first and foremost.
So_True, Makes sense about wondering if you’re ready to date again.
Sounds like you are feeling vulnerable and he was/is comforting you. The fact that he asked you out afterwards raises a flag for me. Could be nothing, but stilled registered for me.
Are you comfortable with the age difference?
I’d check yourself and make sure this isn’t a passing time thing for either of you…
@so-true;
The question is how well can you handle the post-breakup situation when your ex is in your workplace, what will you tell him if you decide not to go out with him, and how will you stop yourself second-guessing if you say no and then find him seemingly a great guy (he might become more attractive to you once you say no, he might start paying more attention once you say no in order to show you what you missed – either of those will create fake attraction and make you uncertain so you need to be ready to talk yourself out of that).
The question is what you tell him if you dont want to date him; I think you shouldn’t tell him you dont date people at work. Because lets be real; if you met someone that you were very attracted to (and it isn’t this guy) you’d take the chance. Its better to be honest. But then again – that reason is trotted out all the time, so why not by you. Take the easy way out if you must and tell him that. Or ‘I dont date people at work as far as possible, and I dont know you well enough’ – said a bit nicely maybe. That way maybe you could get to know him a bit better in more non-date spaces like coffee and work lunch, and perhaps something more natural could develop; either a friendship, a work buddy, a friend zoning which isn’t the worse thing for a work friendship, or an actual dating thing.
Sometimes when colleagues or work mates I dont really know have invited me to dinner and I’m not sure its a date, or I know its not a date but I still dont want to do dinner since its too date-like, I say I’m busy, how about lunch / coffee. Usually this is enough of a message. I’m not usually asked to dinner again though I have developed some of these into nice casual friendships – its not rude, its not explaining anything, theres no ‘its not you its me’.
Its always anxiety producing this type of situation.. Have a sense of humor about it… and dont explain too much whatever you do… even to yourself. You’re allowed to turn down a date, the world doesnt stop, you are not missing important chances in life.
Suki,
I like what you said about not worrying too much, or explaining myself too much. It’s exactly what I have done.
He was trying to text me every few minutes at first saying “what’s up?” “What are you doing right now?” I was getting really annoyed because I hate having long texting conversations that go nowhere. I tried to explain to him I wasn’t much of a texter. He didn’t get the hint. Then proceeded to ask me out to lunch or a movie. I said I wasn’t sure because I’m pretty broke. (I still wasn’t sure if he was interested as a friend or romantically.) He said he’d pay. I’m like, oh no, he IS interested! That would be a date for sure.
So I kinda stopped texting at that point. We texted a little since and he’s backed way off which is good. Have also seen him at work since and it was a little awkward but ok.
I’m just proud that I’ve broken my pattern. In the past, when not attracted to a guy, I would get REALLY worked up about it. I would get upset that guys I’m not into are into me. And wonder what was wrong with me that guys I was into weren’t interested. Then I’d take my frustrations out on these interested guys. Tell them “no” pretty quickly and abruptly. And then feel like I was a bad or faulty person over it all. That I SHOULD be interested and was being shallow for not being attracted to them.
This time, though, I’m not stressing too much, I’m feeling it’s ok that he likes me. Even trying to tell myself “why wouldn’t he be interested, I’m great!” Haha. Which is still not always easy for me to believe.
So yeah, just trying to take it slow. Still not sure how I feel about it, and telling myself its ok. Why should I know straight away how I feel about someone I barely know? And even if I’m ready to date right now?
Veracity,
Yes I am a little worried about the age gap. I promised myself long ago that I would only date guys 2-3 years younger than me, or up to 5 years older than me. I just feel things are less complicated that way. So breaking that rule for myself would feel compromising. But as I said above. I’m trying not to stress too much about it. If I decide I’m interested later, then I’ll address it with myself then. But right now, not sure that I am.
A guy I really care about and I have been having a dalliance with for a couple of years stood me up again yesterday. (He has done this once before) Makes a vague plan and then doesn’t follow through. After all the we have discussed and been through over the last couple of years I expected so much more from him. (Although I am not surprised)
Disappointed again and today I was feeling very down about how many times I have been let down by people I loved and trusted and gave so much support to.
Finally I am ready to take responsibility for how I feel. I cannot continue to give love and trust to people who do not respect it or appreciate it or who have not earned it.
I blocked his email address. (The only way we speak to each other)
I feel fragile but even now I know I have done the right thing.
I need time to recover from this and space to move on.
I have been reluctant to take this step although I have thought about it often over the years. It seemed mean to block him when that is the one thing we have never done to each other before.
Yes I am aware the fact we only speak to each other by email is a red flag in itself. It’s a long story but we were together for about 3 months 2 years ago very much a dating scenario where we were testing if we could be long term. We broke up (involving other people) and have been trying to let go since then. Deleted each other’s phone numbers numerous time in an effort to say goodbye but never blocked email address. That has always been the place to go to when we really want to talk to each other. I have now got rid of that. Surely if he really wants to talk/make amends he knows where I will be living in the future and where I am at the moment.
I have always felt that he understands the person I am right now. He knows what I have been through and how I have changed and I feel it is inevitable that with the changes I have been through and the work I have done on myself that I would need to make a firm boundary with him regarding our 2 year dalliance. I know he will expect it. What I don’t know is how he is going to react. But that’s his responsibility. 😉
Urg, my ex would do that all the time. Inter-spliced with declarations of “I miss you” and “I REALLY want to see you” I got really sick of his words and actions not matching.
I confronted him about it. Got upset a lot, which caused him to pull away more. Was a vicious cycle.
So I say, good for you. Stay strong. You deserve way better!!! These guys will never change. It hurts now, but it will get better.
I thought I’d die when I first started NC. But here I am, 6 months later, feeling so happy and able to see him for what he was – an EU man-child who couldn’t commit to a few hours with me, let-alone a relationship.
You’ll be ok. Keep reading this blog, it helps so much. Oh, and cry as much as you need. Anytime you need.
Ok so now I feel I was rash and have unblocked him. (But I will not contact him)
I just want to give him a chance to make this up to me. Plus I am sick of cutting people out of my life!
Perhaps a boundary can be enforced if I allow myself to note what he has done and allow him to take responsibility for what he has done?
Fair enough, it’s up to you ultimately what you want to do.
But I’d strongly advise reading Natalie’s posts about this kind of thing:
When it happens over and over again:
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/suck-it-and-see-to-kill-off-curiosity-and-get-out-of-relationship-groundhog-day/
Wasting time talking about it when you should be flushing:
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/women-who-talk-think-too-much-wasting-time-explaining-discussing-with-men-that-dont-want-to-listen/
If he says sorry:
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/sometimes-sorry-means-hurry-the-hell-up-accept-my-apology-so-i-can-stop-feeling-bad-about-it/
There are so much more I could recommend but I think you’ll find your way to them if you want to, like I did all those months ago.
How many chances you give him is up to you. I gave my ex plenty. But beware of what it’s doing to your self-esteem.
Also be aware that whatever he says to you might be exactly what you want to hear and he’s most likely counting on that to reel you back in. Before he hurts you again. And lather, rinse, repeat as Natalie likes to say!
Boo, curious why you thought your blocking him was rash. And why you want to give him a chance to “make it up” to you. Just curious how many times someone has to stand you up before you say “No more! I am worth a lot more than being stood up.” Don’t accept crumbs, Boo.
Sometimes the people you cut out of your life don’t deserve to be in your life. You would know that better than anyone else, tho, whether someone doesn’t deserve to be in your life.
Another great post. Thank you, Natalie! (And I wish I had found this site sooner. I’d have saved me a lot of therapists’ bills.)
After a three year ride on the Assclown/EU train (and one or the other short-haul trip before,) I am beginning to pick up the pieces. Mostly, “what was him/what was me?” kind of stuff, and taking a long, hard look at the low level of self esteem, boundary blurriness, and lack of knowledge about my values that let me continue on in this clusterf*ck for so long.
I have now started dating a new man (approx 2 1/2 months.) By all appearances, he seems kind and available and very interested. In full disclosure, he broke up with his gf of 1 year when he met me. It was a long time coming, he said, and meeting me was the final push. I expressed my concerns about this very early on and he understood them, and basically said, “You can’t help when this happens.” I can’t reasonably argue against that. I know plenty of good relationships that started out with one or both people still involved. Anyway, the biggest issue has been me. I’ve had one or the other freak out on him (albeit calm and collected,) and he understands that, due to my recent experiences, we need to take it slow. So it’s been slow. Maybe too slow?!
I do struggle with hyper-vigilance (which is something I’d be struggling with regardless of his recent breakup.) And I can feel the self-sabotaging monster rear its ugly head.
I think my problem lies in not being able to discern a healthy relationship anymore: what does “progress” in a relationship even mean? What can I reasonably expect from a new person I have been dating for nearly 3 months? If he doesn’t want to see me every day and I’m somewhat unsure of when we will see each other next – should I be happy I haven’t caught myself a Future Faker, or is it a sign of half-hearted interest? See, with the men I was with before it would be a given we’d sleep over each others’ places every night, regardless of our respective plans – there was some getting-to-know-each other time, but at some point it felt like we just “knew” and it was an every night thing from there. I can see now that that may not be the healthiest route, definitely skipped the discovery phase before going all in – but it’s what I’m used to, so this new situation is leaving me confused.
This new man texts me consistently every day, but he does leave a night or two in-between meetups and overnight stays (we are always in the know about what we are doing those nights, to be fair.) I am okay with that, and I need my space too, but something about this feels like it may not be progressing into relationship territory – even though we’ve talked and we’ve established exclusivity and a strong interest in continuing to see each other. In the almost 3 months we’ve been seeing each other, he’s also not met any of my friends – it just never panned out. I’ve addressed it and he proposed meeting up with them this weekend, but something tells me that’s not going to happen (and I’m definitely not going to force it.) This man treats me with a lot of care and warmth and kindness. He consistently shows up, even if just over text every day. He’s said he “wants to be with me” and has definitely introduced me to his closest friends. He is also somewhat closed off and doesn’t share all that much – I’ve addressed this. He says he understands and it’s hard for him to open up, and he is doing his best, because being with me is worth it for him. Ok.
I guess, fundamentally, I have lost all trust in what men say or even do. Their words have never, in my experience, really met their actions, and vice versa. Now, at the slightest hint of incongruity, I get the urge to bail – yet I am aware that I am dealing with a human being here and don’t want to get rid of him because I am too scared to deal. In a way, this has something to do with taking responsibility – I am more than willing to take my share, but I also don’t want to mindf*ck myself into a new relationship that is same shorts, different color because I was overly confident I could “read the signs” of bad news. So what can I expect from 3-month “thing”? There are no glaring code red or amber alters I can see, but are there pink ones I may be overseeing? May I have self-sabotaged from the get-go by pulling the breaks and asking to go slow?
I oscillate between a relaxed wait-and-see and a panicked get-the-hell-away-from-me mode. This can’t go on forever and I know I need to make a choice. I thought some of your guys’ input would do me some good 🙂
Kookoo, I’m seeing anything in your description of him that sets off alarm bells for me, personally, but I’m not in it like you are. However, sometimes it takes a fresh set of eyes to perhaps see how things really are. It sounds like you’ve been so busted up and battered from previous relationships that you want a solid GUARANTEE that this guy has absolutely no shadiness and will never, EVER hurt you – and guess what, you will never find that. Relationships are, at heart, a gamble. But spending a couple of nights apart when you’re only 3 months in sounds totally reasonable to me – I’d want that no matter how many months in I am, but maybe that’s just me.
If you definitely want marriage and children, I’d wait 6 months and then calmly broach the topic (presumably you’ve already asked if that is something he wants in general, not with you necessarily). If at that point, you get namby pamby wishy washiness, then re-assess. Give a few months more and then reassess again and perhaps flush. I don’t know how old you are, but trust me, it gets a LOT harder to find a partner the older you get – all the ones who truly want commitment go on and partner up – so don’t let this guy or any guy waste a lot of your time.
But otherwise it sounds like he’s a good guy to me, maybe I’m missing something…
I have been allowing a man to string me along for 8 years. When we met he told me that he was only interested in being friends as there was “no spark.” I was 21, naive and convinced that I would be ok being just friends. Fast forward 2 years and I began dating one of his friends. He became irate and refused to talk to either of us. Things didn’t work out, and after the break up he told me that he loved me and always felt like I would be the one that he would marry. Come to find out he had a gf the whole time! I told him I wanted nothing to do with him in that regard until they broke, they did, and of course, he “needed time to heal.” I moved on blocked him for about a year after reading all of the wonderful articles and posts on this site. Every once in a while I’d have dreams about him and then I ended up purchasing an iPad, lo and behold I received a message from him that went through on the iMessage. I thought…this must be fate! Boy was I wrong. He came back into my life telling me that he loved me…the whole thing again and I find out that he once again lied and had had a serious girlfriend for 4 years, but that she “cheated” and left him. I thought that this time things would be different. Of course, back to old ways. I always wanted to be close to him, to be his friend, even though he was always negative, nasty, insulted my body, told me he only liked my hair a certain way (straightened NOT curly). I was constantly being told that I was selfish, a child, immature and stubborn. That I needed a man that I could control but he needed a woman that “would do things his way.” I was the manipulator, and emotional things made him very uncomfortable. We were intimate numerous times, but never once kissed or hugged. I felt very cheap and used. He would constantly tell me about all of the other women he was seeing. How they had “perfect asses” and were very good looking. I really believed I was nothing and that he was telling me truths that nobody else wanted to tell me in fear of hurting my feelings. I’m so ashamed that I was so weak for so long. That I allowed someone to make me feel so poorly about myself and manipulate me into thinking I was less than nothing. He constantly acknowledged that he was bitter and unhappy and would probably be that way forever. My low self esteem kept me around and it’s so hard for me to move past all of this. I’ve been NC for a month and I still feel the sting of the words and all of the pain. Thank you all for listening.
Nina, this guy is a faker, an liar, and a gamer. He plays you like a fish everytime you bite on his hook. Actually, he really sounds like a narcissist, with what you describe. Read “Narcissistic Lovers” and see if you agree. If he’s a narc, dump him and move on, and get your deserved self-esteem back!
You’re right! The year I was away I felt so much better and like myself again. When I actually saw him for the first time after the NC I was repulsed by him physically and just in general. I thought I was strong enough to have him around and not feel anything, but of course I was sucked back in. I’ve since blocked on all devices, email and with my cell carrier. Thanks for the support. (:
Hi, Nina Bear. These passive-aggressive types can really throw your self-esteem for a loop. They always make you feel less than, with sneaky little insults. Always telling you about the beauty of other women. Beware if they actually say something to you without insulting you – that means they want sex. But after the sex, the veiled insults and the less-than treatment starts again.
Over 20 years ago I dumped the PA EUM in my life after four months of dating, but over the next two decades we had an on-and-off again FWB thing. We never voiced “love” for each other. I thought it was friendship, but it really was me just reaching for the familiar out of habit. What a waste of time that was. I realized that, outside of sex – yes, without hugs and kisses, he always treated me like a stranger. We never got emotionally close and his PA ways hurt me. I started realizing the FWB thing left me feeling very empty. So I called him at work one day in March 2011 and said “Keith, I don’t want to have sex with you anymore.” He said OK. End of discussion. I felt immediately lighter – I‘ll never forget how freeing that moment was.
So, we give each other birthday shout outs, but that is our only regular social contact. We are long time acquaintances. I think I am the closest thing he’s ever had to a “friend”.
Elgie, thank you for sharing your story with me. I’m glad that you were able to break free from the tie that bound you. How do you feel now that it has been over 4 years without dealing with the PA behavior and all of the pain? When you’re wrapped up in the mess you start to feel as if the insidious behavior is normal and the person just wants to be honest with you, but in actuality they use the insults as a way to control.
When I was wrapped up in the mess i knew it didn’t feel right, but I’d continually go back seeking validation. When he would tell me that he loved me (or talk about a future) which was very rare I’d feel my mood shift and would be over the moon. When he would tell me that we weren’t compatible because I was too selfish, I was a princess, expected too much, or too XYZ, I’d feel like less than nothing.
I always held some sort of hope that we would eventually be together when he was done sowing his oats, but I realized in that year we didn’t speak that all of that was a lie, and that I really didn’t like him very much, I just wanted the validation.
Alas, I was sucked back in by thinking I was strong enough to have him in my life. NEVER AGAIN (and what would’ve been the point? He was NEVER supportive or a friend anyway). He IS a chopper plain and simple and I’m finally THROUGH for good.
Oh, my PA hangs around, sending texts occasionally, waiting for me to have a weak moment and invite him to bed again. We’ve gone as long as five years with no FWB contact before I’d think “He’s better than nothing” and start up again…but I’ve changed. He’s not better than nothing.
He’s not a terrible person. We have a lot of emotional problems in common I think. Both of us lonely, both of us find it difficult to connect. But we are not the solution to each other’s issues and I like him better when we have very little contact.
So_True
What you say is so true! (Lol)
I do think however that after many years of doing my “work” it’s like I’m out in the world now engaging fully as a (trying to be) emotionally healthy person and it’s tough! Ultimately I wonder sometimes if I over police my boundaries out of fear of being in a painful situation again.
Things show up in life to teach us – maybe not everything and every lesson is bad?
I think this situation with this man is pushing me to show up as the new improved me at every turn and boy sometimes I just want to be the the girl who didn’t show up you know? Ignorance is bliss and all that but in the words of Oprah “now I know better I do better” I’ve got to ponder what “better” looks like in this situation.
Koo Koo,
I think your in a similar place. Trying to ascertain what’s good and what’s not, how you feel and how you don’t etc.
Remember we cannot think out every outcome. Sometimes you gotta go with it, keeping alert at every turn and see how it pans out.
Boo, if it’s a healthy boundary based on self-esteem and self-respect, then it is appropriate. Don’t second-guess whether you’re over-policing on boundaries. Guys like that like to chip away at your boundaries and sure enuf, we go along with that until we realize all we have is a pile of rubble at our feet because we LET them chip away, chip away, piece by piece.
Yeah, you can tolerate him in your life as showing up to teach you something, but I think it’s an excuse to justify his not treating you with kindness and respect. And that’s a more important life lesson, respecting yourself enough not to tolerate his boundary-crashing nonsense.
Hi Nina,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. You’ve raised important points that I need to think on.
The reason I’d felt I’d been rash was because he’d mentioned us “maybe” meeting up. Yes I messaged to confirm and got no response either way but I wasn’t really stood up. I then made other plans.
The other time he did something similar I was in his city and assumed he would see me even though he never said he would.
See I have a problem with projecting a fantasy and what I mean by I’m learning lessons through him, is that I learn to keep things real.
If a plan hasn’t been confirmed I shouldn’t be off planning what I’m going to eat for dinner. I know that I sometimes try to control everything out of fear.
This is why I worry bout over policing.
Yes it was his responsibility to let me know either way but isn’t it my responsibility not to plan my night according to a “maybe” date?
In the past I would have got pissed at him and sent him mean messages. This time I didn’t. I just informed him that nothing was confirmed so I was heading out with someone else.
Then I blocked him out of what I believe was a dent to my ego. After calming down I looked at it a bit more logically and felt that perhaps this was not just about him letting me down but also about me building castles in the sky…
Hi, Boo. I think what you did was perfect and spot on, to someone who gives you “maybes” as a hook for a maybe-date. A “maybe” and $5 won’t get ya a cuppa coffee at Starbucks, and you realized that and went on. I recently told a friend, who was trying to find dates for a group of us to get together, that if her “yes” on a certain date she checked really meant “maybe yes, maybe no, I’ll let you know later,” that this did not work for me in terms of also planning my own time with the group. (she had wanted me to change one of my “yes” options in case she decided her own “yes” on that date was really a “maybe.”)
My reaction to this maybe-stuff is now “OK, whatever works. If I’m still available, then we can get together.” Certainly not gonna plan my time around a “maybe,” (which I think is actually a bit manipulative), and it sounds like you didn’t either. Good for you! And that is just good self-care, not being rash or over-policing at all! You’re taking charge of your own life while he fiddle-faddles around with his little games.
Basically “Boundaries” is my favourite word at the mo. I have been having boundary “dances” with many people over the last couple of years as the fact I am changing as a person is causing friction with certain longstanding people in my life.
There are some people I have cut out. But there are some that deserve to be in my life and just need time perhaps and reinforcement to get in line with who I am right now.
For instance my brother who is 15 years older than me struggles with the fact that I am now a grown woman. He has been very disrespectful in the past and often seems in a mixture of awe and resentment at all I am achieving. He will subtly try and put me down – I know in order to make himself feel better about himself. However also how he has always related to me needs to change as I change and he struggles with that. I would never want to cut him out of my life, not just because he is my brother but because he has never done anything wrong and is often a supportive and caring person.
What I love about this post is the emphasis on responsibility. The fact that he feels inferior is his responsibility to change. I know this. The fact that I want to be taken more seriously by him is my responsibility to assert and enforce. Right?
I know however that this may never happen. Which is why it is then my responsibility to accept him as he is as my brother and be with people who respect me elsewhere. (What I have started to do now more)
This situation is being echoed at the moment with many longstanding friends and close family.
With this love interest in the past I have let him “get away” with things I shouldn’t have. The difference now is that I am taking responsibility for my part in that (as has he) and I am now trying to lay down a new landscape. It might take some adjustment from him. However I don’t think the answer in this instance is to shut him out. I think in this case I will give it a period of adjustment where I see what unfolds.
Hi, Boo. Yeah, I noticed that too, that when I started recovering from bad relationships, and started acting like a woman with self-esteem and good boundaries, some long-term boundary crashing “friends” didn’t like that. A few were surprised but honored the healthy new me. They are still friends. (And I got new friends.) A few didn’t, and I pulled the plug on them when they continued to express resentment and attempt manipulation about the fact that I wasdn’t the same ole manipulate-able person I had been before.
Interesting about your brother. You say he hasn’t done anything wrong, and you also say he has long-standing put-down behavior. While not “wrong” to the extent of stealing your money or slapping you, it is still not respectful behavior toward you. My own sister, a petulant and paranoid narcissist, was so disrespectful toward me in so many ways, and even more so when I started to get strong and healthy, that I actually did have to pull the plug with her. Not saying you should do that with your bro, but you certainly can acknowledge to yourself — and to him — that the put-down behavior is no longer okay with you. You’re right, that it is absolutely your own responsibility to assert and enforce your healthy new Boo-ness to him. And, as you note, see how it enfolds.
Lately I have been realizing how much of a role my expectations play in my life/choices and how I feel about things/events/people. Sometimes my expectations aren’t realistic and I end up being disappointed. I’m grateful for that awareness. Working on that delicate balance of having (learning) healthy, realistic expectations and then responding in healthy ways no matter what happens.
Veracity, I see what you mean by gratitude in being aware. Being unaware carries blame and rumination, being aware makes it less of big deal and something to easily move on and learn from. I know a shift in expectations has had a big part in my BR journey, in that I used to expect people to fill an emotional void, guide and direct me, and this would lead to being easily offended and disappointed by friends, or I would even expect people to be friends when they were really acquaintances. But then in other areas, in having EUMs trample boundaries, feed me crumbs etc., or before that not being parented properly, expectations, as in what was acceptable and what would satisfy me, were shockingly low. It’s like low esteem leaves everything askew rather than bringing you to one extreme or another, so it’s a complex journey. Some things should have higher expectations, others less.
Yes, happy b, exactly!! I’ve had similar experiences as you describe…expectations too high for some people, too low for others. The awareness and the willingness to act on it changes everything.
Yes, we can choose how to react, some of it to do with trust. I take things more at face value now. I’m more accepting that people can be busy, forgetful, held up in traffic, ill, stressed, snuggled in front of the tv, etc. It comes back to earlier posts that through a low self-esteem lens, it’s always about us. It’s very freeing to realise it isn’t, and has made relationships healthier. I love a quote I heard recently about going into any situation believing people are pleased to see you. If the event or people are then not so welcoming, you can think, ‘this isn’t the place for me’ instead of raking over all possible inadequacies.
Obviously some people really are flaky and full of crap, and need divestment (NOT trying to win them over!), but I know a lot of problems before stemmed from making the worst assumptions about people who have since proved they’re in it for the long haul.
It makes me feel great to write about these changes, still a long way to go though and a lot of sensitivity to manage.
Still working on when to take things at face value and when I shouldn’t – trusting my assessment of the situation/person while keeping in mind my old filter(s) when dealing with new people. I do tend to wonder if someone is doing something intentionally. Either way, it’s not personal, but it does affect my response.
That’s a great point about the low self-esteem prompting the worst assumptions about people…expectations drive behavior. If you expect that they aren’t going to be happy, receptive, etc.. you’ll act accordingly and it’ll probably be a self fulfilling prophesy. And vice versa! Gonna add that to my mantras…people are genuinely pleased to see me.
Oh the sensitivity. Have come to believe it is one of my greatest gifts as well as my biggest challenge.
You’re working hard, I’m so glad it feels great!
Wow thanks Nina:) it’s great to know and hear experiences from other people going through this.
Yep my bro is being out of order and I tell him so when I can, but at 46 years old sometimes he’s beyond telling! I tend to keep conversations light unless he can respect my views and opinions.
Can you imagine he once had a massive hissy fit at me and told me I was too opinionated and that my ex must have been a “quiet man” to put up with me! (Little did he know my abusive ex controlled my life and steamrolled over all my desires )
Lol 🙂 I learn such a lot from this blog and all the great comments.
Thanks for your responses
Bx