When people share their stories with me and a recurring theme emerges, I ask: If we look at this story a different way, why are you consistently attracted to and involved with partners who pretty much need to spontaneously combust into another person with a different set of values and habits in order to make you happy?
Many people believe that if a person loves you, they’ll change and make you the exception to their rule of behaviour and when this doesn’t happen, they personalise it and blame their worth. Why is our happiness and sense of purpose tied up in whether we can get somebody to make us the exception to their rule of behaviour?
‘I Can Change Him/Her’ syndrome is a habit of engaging in relationships that are fixer uppers. Like property, it’s where you take on a partner due to what you regard as their potential due to the return on investment you’ll make from renovating, redesigning, or even stripping them right back and raising them from the ground up.
Someone with an I Can Change Him/Her habit of thinking and behaviour believes that the love and relationship is valuable if they have to work hard for or even fight for it and ultimately be made the exception. This is a key reason why people get involved with unavailable partners especially the heavy duty commitment dodger and assclown versions. When the person blows hot or throws crumbs, it feels like more than the loaf that could be gotten from an available partner.
Just as can happen with fixer upper properties, people enter into fixer upper relationships underestimating the work involved.
We can’t get full structural surveys done on people and while there are signs that we can look out for and be mindful, the reality is that we’re going to have to live in the dating phase or the relationship for a bit to get a sense of whether or not it’s a good fit. Here’s the problem:
Some issues are not immediately visible and even if they are, they may not be understood or they might be misdiagnosed and or prescribed the wrong fix.
Someone who gravitates to or remains in a fixer upper is a fixing/healing/helping Florence Nightingale and is assuming that they can fix the issues that arise with their own brand of love. They assume that they’re the solution to the problem or that the potential they forecast will take care of everything. This is similar to purchasing a property, discovering serious structural issues and rather than recognising and addressing the source of these, focusing on the cosmetic and comfortable parts of the work.
Every person who has ever tried to change a partner in an unavailable relationship misdiagnoses the issue by wondering:
Is it something I said?
Is it something I did?
What can I do to make them change back or become who I want them to be?
By making the issue an It’s About Me one, they’re not only misdiagnosing it but prescribing the wrong solution. They also wouldn’t be in this relationship or certainly continue if they weren’t deriving a sense of purpose from it. They need to feel needed.
These relationships feel safer. I’ve been guilty in the past of using my poor self-image as a cue to date down. I would punch below my weight by dating people who needed to spontaneously combust into someone else if we were to have had a mutually fulfilling relationship with love, care, trust and respect.
I didn’t want to date an available man or even someone with a fraction of the issues I normally went for because I didn’t believe in me. I figured they’d work out that I was a f*ck up whereas a fixer upper would value and appreciate me because I was ‘boosting’ them. At first they’d be all over me like a rash and then the code reds and ambers that I’d turned a blind eye to or rationalised would dominate the relationship. My insecurities would unfold, I’d try to please them into changing, what little boundaries I had would disappear and I’d hate myself and then I’d feel that I had to stay because they ‘owed’ me. I couldn’t walk away.
These relationships keep us busy, give us a sense of purpose and also help us to avoid ourselves and having to step up. We mistake talking the hell out of what’s going on for communication and taking action. We don’t admit that we partly take on these projects because they allow us to feel in control even though we’re not (it’s the whole feeling safe in an uncomfortable comfort zone and also preferring to put our energy into controlling the uncontrollable rather than being vulnerable and taking command of ourselves), and also because there is a part of us that believes that we’ll realise our own potential and even right the wrongs of the past if this person does as we want.
While there can often be cosmetic changes that occur in relationships such as shifts in style, tastes, hobbies and interests and growing together in direction as you move through different life stages, in fixer upper relationships, there’s always an element of wanting the person to change their fundamental character and values. What also distinguishes these relationships from others where the partners accept each other and grow and evolve together is that the basis for happiness or even basic stability in the relationship relies on the changes happening.
The ‘I Can Change Him/Her’ syndrome quick test
1) Is the relationship unlivable without the desired changes and structural work?
2) Are you trying to influence and even control this person’s behaviour by being pleasing? E.g. Sex, ego stroke, shoulder to lean on, competing with their existing partner or even ex partner.
3) Do you take their lack of change or inability to consistently meet your desired potential as a personal slight on you? Does it resurrect old wounds?
4) Do you think or talk about the relationship in terms of ‘investment’ and what you feel you are owed?
5) Have you been and done things with the underlying expectation that you will be rewarded by them realising your forecasted potential for them?
If you answered yes to any of these and it’s a theme in your relationships, you suffer with ‘I Can Change Him/Her’ syndrome.
The problem with using a person changing their fundamental selves as a means of valuing you is that whatever you want to change becomes a focus of blame for why you’re unhappy but also why the relationship isn’t working. That isn’t to say that whatever it is isn’t a problem but it also leaves you helpless, especially if who they are without that change in effect cripples your self-esteem. It’s also ignoring the greater issue of why your value and sense of purpose is riding on an external source – that’s a codependency issue because this reliance makes you excessively emotionally reliant on that person when the value issue truly comes down to the way that you feel about you.
What really pains people who invest in these relationships is that they often end up boosting the other party into the next relationship, either because they think that they can do better or because they’re ‘charged’ and ready to go after convalescing and even reaping the benefits as a fixer upper. It’s important to note that most people don’t like being pitied or feeling unacceptable and these two things are prevalent in a fixer upper relationship even though it can be very discomforting to recognise their existence.
The first step in bringing awareness into the equation is recognising that if you feel motivated to be with someone due to their potential and your Florence activities, there is something about the person and the relationship that you’re defining as a worth and ‘right’ person issue. Spend some time evaluating the origins of this habit especially where you may be playing out old patterns and trying to right the wrongs of the past. What you’re doing is likely causing you to remain loyal to a pattern and dynamic that’s keeping you small and removing your power.
It’s not about whether you’re worthy or whether the right person will inspire them to change. You are already a worthwhile and valuable person but if your relationship is based on both of you having to change – one to create the debt (you with the pleasing etc) and the other to pay it back – then it’s not a relationship that love is truly going to grow out of. If anything, it will mostly be pain and you deserve better than basing your self-esteem on how much you can influence the feelings and behaviour of others. Invest in you and you will want very different partners.
Your thoughts?
There’s lots of posts on BR about unavailable relationships, self-esteem, and breaking toxic patterns. If you want to go deep, check out The Pattern Breaker ecourse.
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The first thing comes to mind reading this post is that I wish I had read it before getting into my last relationship, the epiphany one. However, I take these words immediately back because if I had read this article back then it would have not made any sense to me at all. I had to experience the relationship I had. I had to fall into the pit of despair and darkness to finally see and understand everything I did that contributed to my failed marriage and then subsequent short and one longer term relationship. Knowledge might guard you, but nothing can teach you as your own pain and mistakes. Yes, Nat’s article might have alerted me, but would I have reacted at that point? I probably wouldn’t even finish reading any of her articles. Because it would have not rung the bell and I would say to myself, “it’s not about me, it’s about some other desperate people.” It takes suffering and pain so sharp to finally unfold yourself and see all the wrong ways I had been doing for years of my adult life.
Everything written in this article I can apply to my last experience with the EU. Hot at first, lukewarm/cold later and dodging the commitment from the beginning. Betrayal and lying later. Yet acting consistently and predictably (calling, seeing each other, taking out, but yet remaining in the dating phase 9 months after we started), which was so confusing to my then fickle, unstable self-esteem, growing insecurity and disappeared boundaries (from the little I did have). Me staying in my investment and not wanting to walk away because I already put it in so much. I got used to him, we are together, let me keep trying and waiting maybe I will be the exception to the rule. I kept sticking to these ideas even though to all around me it was easily seen that he was just passing time with me. What could explain better than really a phrase after a tender and loving sex I thought we had, I said, “it was so wonderful,” and he said, “It is better than nothing.” If I heard this from a man now (first of all I would not be having sex or even a conversation with a man who is EVEN CAPABLE of saying such a thing), I would kick him out and never see him again. Back then I said, “Haha, I love your sense of humor.” This phrase summarizes all my past life treatment of myself and how I related to others. I was the doormat, the Florence, the pleaser, the forever waiting and hoping with no self-esteem, buying more time with hot sex and humor and intelligent conversation and fun outing times, and hoping and waiting, while he had decided many months ago that he would pass time with me until he finds something better.
Even after the devastation time of the abortion, when I clung to him because he was a part of me now (in my post-trauma, anxious, stressed mind), and he exhibited finally and for the first time I thought he loved me because he saw me frequently, checked on me, took care of me, “loved” me proved with actions, I finally dissolved fully into him and trusted him and became…. emotionally available… and finally thought he changed and will be with me as he promised. One month after he broke up with me.
This article is important. To those who already are past this experience. Hopefully those who are close to finish their experience. Maybe to those in the middle. Maybe not to those in the early stages.
All I can say at this point in my life, I believe that only the most painful and burning experience can change you. Not overnight. It has been taking me 10+ months now to learn and heal, and I have never been more content and happy and peaceful and understanding of myself and my mistakes in relationships. Nat’s articles help post-healing and during the healing. I am hoping someone during one of this destructive relationships will take a heed what Nat is saying. I don’t know if her wise words would have had effect on me 1,5 years ago. Maybe they would have. I was not lucky to discover her site back then. The demise of my relationship led me to find this site. Hopefully some people will pay attention if they find this site on time. Thank you, Nat and all the wonderful community here on BR.
Sofia, your words resonate with me deeply. Hugs and healing wishes to you!
Sofia, that comment after sex – firstly, its such a [insert expletive] thing to say on its own. BUT more importantly, it shows how EU he was – I’m sure that he liked being with you, and enjoyed himself. However, it was your enthusiasm ‘wasn’t that wonderful’ that made him be a jerk. And that is really the worst part of EU – that they will respond to your feelings of joy and love with their fear that they will be required to step up and so they want you to feel unhappy. That is managing down your expectations in the worst way. Thats the same as the guy that will say ‘you’re too good for me’ or ‘i can’t believe someone like you is with someone like me’ while all the time treating you badly – because by telling himself that you’re too good for him, he’s saying that his bad behavior is something you should put up with. Ugh. Glad that you feel peaceful now and would laugh at someone that said something like that and boot them out the door.
Suki,
You are right. It’s one of the EU signs: managing down the expectations. Many others: not cuddling after sex, taking shower immediately like washing away the closeness instantly, never asking about my childhood, how I grew up, never telling me about his family unless I asked, and even then avoiding the conversation, smirking about my curiosity. So weird now that I am recalling all this!! No empathy. No strong positive or negative emotions. Kind of even most of the time with just mild irritability at times. Lacking compassion or not showing? Not sure. So distant and unapproachable. Unbelievable that we stay with people like that for so long. Betting on the potential, keep investing although it’s a dark hole and the bankruptcy sign was glaring in the beginning. He also was not confident in himself although narcissistic somewhat I think. Admired himself in the mirror (he is attractive), I could tell. When breaking up with me he said, “You will find someone much better than me. If we continue like this you might miss out on someone who is good for you.” And added, “after 6 months or so you will hate me and think what a bastard he is.” I didn’t pay attention to any of his words back then. I can see clearly now. I don’t hate him, but I definitely see that he was right that he was not good for me, and he knew it himself. It’s amazing how and why these people even start a relationship. Is it to pass the time only? Or like I read somewhere here, they overestimate their level of interest and the ability to commit? They blow hot at first and think they can do it but then they lose it at some point? My ex said that his relationships last 6 months average. Ours lasted 11 months. That was a stretch. I felt that something died actually right at about 6-month mark. I kept working hard on it and he enjoyed the ride while he could, stringing me along and knowing it’s about to end. Again, I didn’t listen to what he said about himself in the beginning about how long his relationships last and that by 35 he never lived with anyone and never committed to anyone. Also, he would like a long-term relationship and a serious one but he is not ready to settle down. Now… for the first time actually ever I am thinking, wait a second… this is a contradiction. How can you want a serious relationship but not being ready to settle down. This doesn’t make any sense, but to him it did because his idea of a long-term relationship is something that lasts beyond 6-month mark but is still in the permanent date phase. He toughened that out to almost a year mark. After breaking up with me he said he was relieved and told me that there are million people out there to date, you don’t need to be sitting at home on the sofa and crying (never cried in front of him). And no, don’t even think I will change my mind. I made the right decision. He was very determined. At least he was not EU in that. He made up his mind finally. He contacted me 3 times after that. Just resurfacing with superficial meaningless texts saying that I am important to him but would not say anything beyond that.
I give up finally trying understand how their mind works. I hope he will be able to let go his fears and barriers and will find someone whom he will be capable of loving. I hope he will experience intimacy and closeness without fear. To love and trust someone and care for someone and be vulnerable and open up fully are great life experiences. I wish him well. I wish him to become emotionally available.
Hi Sofia,
“No strong positive or negative emotions. Kind of even most of the time with just mild irritability at times. Lacking compassion or not showing? Not sure. So distant and unapproachable.”
This part in his character reminded me of my mother, whom I deemed “emotionally stable” with respect to my dangerous ‘bipolar’ father. Turns out she is completely emotionally unavailable herself, and I only made this connection after I broke up with my ex-boyfriend.
So, in a sense, I managed to avoid the unpredictable violent father in the intimate relationship, but unwittingly fell prey to a ‘mother-type’ person.
Best wishes,
V.
Oh Sofia, you could have been talking about my ex. It is terrible to be with somebody like that. The word robot comes to mind, no feelings expressed, no emotions shown, no affection either and all the time you are waiting for some kind of breakthrough that never happens. When I think that I actually considered meeting up with him again when Sir came calling, shake head. You are so better off without him.
Annabelle, my ex expressed some affection during his blowing hot periods, and even then it came out restrained. Kind of like he was forcing it, ashamed of it, and didn’t know how to express it. Stealthily giving me quick kisses in public would be his expression of affection during the blowing hot times, or being more sexual during those times. The other times he was either lukewarm or cold. And those times reminding of a robot, you are right. Restrained and regulated. Like he set his own temperature and would never get too excited or too mad about anything with me. He could not tolerate any disagreement and considered that we are fighting if my opinions differ from his. Oh the list could go on. I think it’s a common quality of EU men (would not think difficulty expressing emotions and lack of empathy applies to EU women): being internally regulated for every aspect of life. It could be a good quality, you would think: a stable man, but then who he is? What does he really feel? Is he capable of intimacy and relating, letting close to you? Boundaries are good but not to the point when they become walls.
Oh and he would say, “it was great for me too” and would say something like, “for guys it doesn’t really matter” !!!! meaning that sex is sex. Only women attach emotions to it. So basically he made me feel so UNspecial in telling me that anyone else could be in my place while I was saying and trying to get him to say that we are sharing the bond, that we are close and intimate and not just enjoying sex.
I am rehashing all these memories now and the bad things finally come back in the memory (because when I was healing I was generally and sadly remembering only all the positives) and I am appalled at how I could tolerate such things!! Nat’s article reminded me a lot of points.
I was reading some older posts and comments today (links to articles in this article) and I can’t believe to what some people said about their EUs’ remarks and comments, such as one guy said, “It’s time for me to upgrade.” Can you imagine that!? But then I look back at my experience and see that mine was not any better really!!
What’s amazing, is while we were blind to all of it and being even more pleasing and hoping they will change, they become more and more abusive even if subtly and cleverly and keep eroding our self-esteem further. It is truly a codependent damaging relationship pattern. It is scary to think how damaged I must have been to stay with him for so long.
What does it tell about one’s self-esteem when her boyfriend picks on her weight, height, clothes, music, movies, choices, opinions, and list goes on, and yet she is staying with him and laughing all the “jokes” off. I see myself in the past as a sick, abandoned, injured child who allowed such treatment but wouldn’t leave because I wanted to prove that I can be loved. To be validated. It is a scary union of two damaged individuals. Luckily if one is strong enough to leave first. Maybe because he found someone or because the pressure to step up and commit was too strong. I will always be single, I think, he said. Another statement that cannot be underestimated.
I learned another thing from my experience and this site that we do act in a self-fulfilling prophecy way. Before I started dating him I knew in advance that I didn’t want anything serious. I just wanted a date and sex. Then I met him and fast forwarded and future faked a lot. It was a crazy whirl of confusion, attachment based on sex and chemistry and some common interests. All the time I knew it would end. I just had this set negative outcome of this relationship I knew it would end because I knew in my gut he would never check in, and also because no relationship ever worked out for me (except for my marriage dissolved for other, mutual reasons). I just decided that this would fail. So I picked a person like that. I stayed and tried meanwhile while knowing it would end.
I think now until an EU person with a damaged self-esteem and low self-worth, like many of us here were/are, we need to take a long dating hiatus. The time length is determined by the level of effort and understanding we put in to recover from our past selves. We just can’t be dating if we are like that. Because we find the same people and it is all over again. Also, some people can just decide to stay single. Whatever it is, we need to fully engage with ourselves before we engage with others. It is so true that the situation we currently find ourselves in is the direct reflection of who we are at this current point in our lives.
Hi Sofia,
I resonate so much with your story and it feels like you are in my head when you talk about your experiences.
When you said…
I see myself in the past as a sick, abandoned, injured child who allowed such treatment but wouldn’t leave because I wanted to prove that I can be loved. To be validated. It is a scary union of two damaged individuals. Luckily if one is strong enough to leave first. Maybe because he found someone or because the pressure to step up and commit was too strong. I will always be single, I think, he said. Another statement that cannot be underestimated.
This is exactly what my EU said to me. On Numerous occassions, yet I still havent found the strength to fully walk away.
Last week I thought I would go back again, because clearly I have not been hurt enough, throwing my hand into the fire again, expecting that with enough love and florence type behaviour that he will change, he will change his mind, he will see what we could have and the dawning light will shine!! Phfffff as if…
The text verbatim after this encounter;
“You know i love you to the moon and back and would do anything for you, but right now I’m happy being single and not after a relationship, but as I said doesn’t mean I dont want one later on”
When questioned on when “later” might be there was deathly silence… Yet he is still happy for me to call him and be “friends”, look after his dog or help him when he needs it.
The contradictory actions and words, the crumbs I keep getting thrown is exhausting to my self worth. My incessant need to fix him, help him, build up his confidence and help him reach his full potential. Yet, where is the pay back for me.. I am still waiting.
Nat, you are so spot on.. THe reason I keep going back is becuase I am waiting on my return on investment. I have sunk so much into this relationship, so much time, so much energy, so much love, I refuse to let that be a bad investment. I am waiting and waiting and hoping and praying and keep giving and expecting one day, the “later” will come around. I am so deluded and finally starting to see this is SO much more about ME and my own issues, the reasons why I keep doing this to myself.
Your article today could not have come at a better time, I really needed this today of all days. I am so afraid to work on me, I am so afraid to work though my pain, my childhood / adolescent issues. I am investing in this relationship hoping hte pay off will finally make up for all the times I have been wronged by people (mostly men) that I cannot accept that by walking away this is the real pay off…
When I look deep inside I know I deserve better, but then the fear sets in, the doubt screams in my ears and the old behaviour and clinging returns.
I will keep going, eventually the tide will turn for me too. I will succeed and I will let go, I have to, for my own sanity.
Oh Bec,
I am so sorry you are going through this. You see yourself that he doesn’t want a relationship. “Later” means not now or anytime soon. Maybe never. You need to break up clean and start NC. Today. I remember your story and I know you have been broken up for some time. It’s time to really break up. You just turned into a FWB for him. Hearing such stories makes me think that I am lucky that my ex-EUM left me alone except for short, rare texts. I know you can’t let go of the “investment.” I know that feeling. And you are trying to validate yourself. To seal together the pieces of the broken dreams and illusions and hopes. The only way to move on and start healing is to realize that you experienced a loss (although it is a gain for you, which you will see soon enough if you start NC and stop seeing him). Once you accept that you have a loss and the relationship is over, you will start grieving. You haven’t started grieving yet because you are still in a relationship albeit superficial and weak. It’s not even a relationship. An arrangement on his terms, benefiting him and torturing you. It’s all in your hands. When after I replied (formal dry and short) to my ex EUM’s second text back in summer, I was beating myself up about it for a month at least. Someone here recommended the article I will copy and paste the link to. It opened up my eyes very well and I got a wake up moment. After reading that article I burned my hand yet once again replying to the 3rd text (happy bday wish), and it was the last time for me finally. For him as well I believe. I have a feeling he is finally moved on completely. Please read this article:
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/suck-it-and-see-to-kill-off-curiosity-and-get-out-of-relationship-groundhog-day/
You sound depressed and tormented. I can feel that your self-worth is very low right now. Don’t be afraid working through your pain, childhood issues, abandonment, parental issues. Read Nat’s articles as many as you can find that are relevant to your story and read the comments too.
I have been on the site for a month almost non-stop again because I have been having not a very good month. Although most of the time it seems like I moved on, there are some triggers such as the event from about the same time last year hit me, and I am grieving all over again. Reading and writing here has been very helpful.
Bec, it’s very hard to let him go, particularly that he is accepting and totally fine with this kind of arrangement. You have to be the strong one to walk away. Hugs and best wishes. Write here and we will support you through this. You are not alone.
Hi Sofia,
As I read the comments, especially your story, I become more empowered. I have finally broken up with my EU for a month now. We broke up the first time because I believed him when he said that he needed space – I respected that even though I felt something was off(I just found out he had another girl on the side at that time). I tried moving on but then he contacted me asking to be friends(more like friends with benefits now if you look at it). This time I was honestly wishing for things to turn up as what I was expecting – that he would change and finally validate my beliefs in some way.
But then I found out that even before he contacted me again, he had picked up a new girlfriend. To keep it short, he was keeping me as a fall back girl because I was familiar with him and in case it doesn’t work out with his new girl. It sucks really. Some days I am fine but there are also days where I still cry myself to sleep.
I know he is bad for me. He was never there while I was 100% or more invested in the relationship. And he knew that. He just took what he can because I allowed him to.
Now, I think I am on the grieving period. I am on NC. He’s not also trying to contact me (or maybe because he’s just done) which is better because I am not that strong right now. Hopefully I will find myself again after having him walk all over and pass my boundaries.
*English is not my mother tongue so apologies to those who read this and got confused in some way. This site has been very helpful to me.*
You are not alone. After two “relationships” with EU men. The pain it caused allowed me to break open and see the wounded parts of myself that needed healing and caused me to pair with these men in the first place. Without pain there is no wisdom. That’s where wisdom comes from. All the best to you.
Abby, best wishes to you as well. Absolutely true! One can read all the of BR articles, go to therapists, etc., but until one is hit by one or more experiences like this, when it feels like you have been hit by a train, only then, although gradually, you start seeing everything and stop blaming the men you were with. You see that the problem were YOU picking such people and staying with them. And that’s where the change begins: with you.
Sofia! You sound great. Just dropped by to say I’m glad you are in a better place. You seem like you got this down girl. Good things are coming your way. 🙂
Hi Bethd,
Thank you! 🙂
I do feel great! In my recent posts I might sound a bit emotional because I am so excited this is over and remembering all the things that happened between him and me, I can’t stop getting amazed at how I allowed such situations. I believe I am in my final acceptance stage and looking back at the beginning of my healing, I see how much I have changed and the perception of the world as well.
I hope you are well too. Thank you for stopping by and saying Hi:)
Sofia – a sentence you wrote really stuck out to me because I did this too..
– I was the doormat, the Florence, the pleaser, the forever waiting and hoping with no self-esteem, buying more time with hot sex and humor and intelligent conversation and fun outing times, and hoping and waiting, while he had decided many months ago that he would pass time with me until he finds something better.
For so long I felt like an option as I tried to show him how good we would be together (or really how much can I do for someone who has no emotions to show him that he should choose me). When we started hanging out as friends he wanted to be with someone else who used him constantly and it pissed me off. But I hung around thinking one day it would dawn on him that he needs/wants me. Kinda like the new maroon 5 song, it was always you. LOL One day this actually did happen. I was dating someone and he asked me if I saw it going somewhere. I said I did. He immediately did a 180 and said I now realize how you have felt blah blah blah. He declared his love for me and after much thinking I chose him. We were together for 7 months. I always doubted his feelings. 3 months after we broke up, he told me he was talking to someone new who was recently separated. This devastated me and I went complete NC with him. I tried to go 100% NC after we broke up but after a month he kept pestering me to see a movie and I finally gave in and we just fell into old habits. HE moved in with her 6 months later, contacted me a month after he moved in with her, and convinced me to see him and we ended up sleeping together. So now he’s a cheater. He is so messed up. And most days I think I am over him, other days, not so much. I can’t pinpoint exactly what it is I am hung on….
one time after we had sex as a couple, we got into this discussion about our relationship and he said stuff like I don’t know what I want. I don’t know if I should be with someone who is spontaneous, or someone like this. Part of me thinks you should go out and sow your wild oats…blah blah blah. I just laid there listening. I didn’t say anything. I look back on that moment and wish I would have said something. There are several times where I should have said something but didn’t…
another thing you said that resonates with me is –
No strong positive or negative emotions. Kind of even most of the time with just mild irritability at times. Lacking compassion or not showing? Not sure.’ He was always so indifferent about things.
He came and lived with me for a few weeks just to see what it was like and when I asked if he was excited his response was I’m indifferent. We also talked about him moving in with me several months later and he would say if it doesn’t work out I will just move out. Relationships are just to see how it goes.
Living together is a big deal to me. He just was indifferent to everything and still is. When I saw in this summer he told me that he moved in with his gf cause it was a good opportunity to get out of his mom’s place. I was like you can’t even say because you wanted too…it was a way for him to self serve himself.
Lynn – This resonated with me too. That is the attitude of my BF.
Lynn, I hear sadness and pain in your post. I can relate closely to what you experienced. My ex was even more emotionally unavailable than yours. Never moved with me and never even intended to, but I know if he did, he would say something like, “Fine with me either way,” to remind me and show me how unspecial I am. Just like during sex, he would say, that my skills are about average and another my favorite comment was, “For guys it doesn’t really matter, it’s all good for us.” Romantic and intimate, isn’t it? And the classic, “Better than nothing,” is something else…
The amazing thing and another thing that I can relate to your situation: 10 months after that I had gone through all the stages of grief and recycled over and over with an alleviating intensity of the feelings in each stage, I am still not over him. I sadly realize that because when I ask myself: would I feel indifferent if I saw him with a woman or knew he was dating ( I know nothing of his current situation. No common friends and no social media)? No I wouldn’t. There were days finally and even weeks I thought I was over him and then it would come back, and I couldn’t understand why I am feeling all these feelings all over yet again! It helped that I read a lot of psychological material on grieving and loss. I read that it takes several cycles of the same emotions until finally the feelings die away. Still though, like you, I have no idea how and why I am still hung on him. I think it’s an addiction in a way, a hurt ego and pride that keep hurting us. I don’t think it’s love. Love should not hurt. It’s a painful dependence and I need to free myself from it, which I am learning to do and letting the time work for me as well.
I am lucky that he contacted me only 3 times in 10 months. Exactly each time when I exhaled and said to myself, “I think it’s finally over.” His contact was always by text and superficial. How are you. No details nothing. Said that I am important to him and he wants to stay in touch. No actions or communication afterwards. I responded the first time back in spring because I thought he might have changed his mind. I responded the second time only because I thought (naive me) he wanted to apologize. To say sorry that he hurt me. Or at least to check on me and to say sorry that he hurt me or that I had been through rough times. Then the third time after I responded I finally understood that first of all he is not sorry and if he is, he will never say it. He is very proud and if he made up his mind about something he will never “descend” to show he is sorry or made a mistake. I have decided recently that my goal now is to move on without his apology, which I might never hear in my entire life. One thing I could never understand and still don’t is why contacting someone without inquiring anything further. Typically, some real ACs want to get laid. Or EUs need to pass time with. His contact was really odd because he didn’t express any desire to meet, talk on the phone, or even ask any of the details of my life. It just really odd. He poked my wound briefly and disappeared instantly 3 times. Another goal of mine is stop wondering why.
Lynn, your case is hard too because you continued seeing him. How confusing. And he cheated on his gf. What a mess he is. You haven’t had a real chance to be apart from him. How long have you been truly NC and no contact? I can’t imagine if I had sex or any kind of closeness with my ex after the breakup. That would mess with my head and I would never move on. It has been hard as it is already.
I hope you will be able to stay in NC as much as needed for you to heal. That’s the only way.
Sofia – I know I don’t want to be with him. I think for me, its still hurt pride/ego and I don’t know how to let go of that. I know I wouldn’t be happy if we were still together. Most of the time I think that his gf can have him. After we slept together, the next day we got into a conversation about our relationship via text, and just like he pulled me in, he pushed me away by telling me that he just doesn’t feel the amount of attraction he thinks he should for a relationship, that his gf wears makeup while they watch tv which makes her more attracted to him,she cooks and cleans and doesn’t care what he does. He said that her husband was an ass so when he does something small around the apt she thinks he’s great. I kinda felt bad for her in that moment because he moved out of his mom’s house who did everything for him (because he paid rent and it was part of their rent agreement)and now sounds like he has everything done for him again. But I know that they are both messed up. She cheated on her husband and then rushed into something with him….then rushed into moving in together. I know at some point they will crumble. I just wish I didn’t give a rats ass anymore. He texts me every now and then and I can’t not reply. I think I tell myself that I’m over him, its just friendly, because I truly honestly do not want to be with him anymore. But then I find myself wanting his attention and I know that that is old habits/addictive nature. He is just not that special, and I think sometimes I just need to get over myself. Its a blessing that I am free. I am in a much better place then I was last year. And i know I need to keep working on my self esteem. His comment about makeup really bothered me at first. I guess I never realized how superficial he is. He isn’t the best looking guy….but I found him very attractive because of his personality. Anyway – thanks for ‘listening’, its good for me to write this stuff out.
These men have trained themselves to be unfeeling. The WANT to be unfeeling, cold, and aloof. They equate that “distance” with manhood and manliness. No use thinking that they will discover a desire to let down their emotional walls someday. Not gonna happen. They are proud of their walls. They reinforce their walls.
ACMM was very robotic, too. While he did not say hurtful things like your specimens, he has learned over the years of ACship to say NOTHING. These men are also aware that we are trying every trick in the book to get them to “feel” something for us, to show us in some way that we mean something to them. It causes them to become even more withholding.
But when our broken hearts decide to give up on them, these ACs do miss our attempts to win them. So they check in with meaningless texts.
Don’t know why they relish being so emotionally cruel.
When you find yourself melting for your AC again, just recall some of those hurtful memories and remember he will do it to you again.
Elgie R.,
Thank you for this idea, thinking about how miserable they made us feel, when we are “into them” again (or most likely the scab of the hurt ego is scratching and not letting heal). I am going through some painful recycling for the very last time I do hope, triggered by the memory of the event from exactly last year, and I feel I find myself in grieving all over again. So, I am certainly recalling all the things he poisonously exuded towards me including lack of actions. 10 months post breakup were not in vain. There are days like now it feels fresh, but I do know I have progressed a lot. It’s a weak spot, a bump on the road, but I will get up quickly and move on again.
I agree with what you say about them not allowing to feel their own feelings, but then… you hear stories of how all of sudden they finally found the One and are happily together or even get married. Then you think, it was Me that was not the right one and he is not EU after all.
Important thing though it should not matter and NC will help to not know anything about him while you are healing and later, it won’t matter at all.
There is a saying that what’s yours will stay or come back. What is gone was not yours then to start with.
Remembering this simple truth helps.
Lynn, I could write almost word for word what you are saying. It is a paradox: we don’t want them anymore, but why we are holding on. It really is bad that he keeps contacting you and you are responding. I know it’s hard not to. My ex rarely contacted and I have a feeling he will never again (although I said that before 2 times already in the last 10 months). Part of me thinks I guess he has some decency to not disturb me, but most likely he just doesn’t care and moved on. There are times I feel like I moved on and again I get jealousy pangs about him being with someone and being in a serious committed relationship ( I don’t know if he is single or dating). I try to analyze my pattern and ask myself, “Why I am jealous and care if I don’t want him as a partner myself anymore and wouldn’t want to get back together with him?” I think it’s our hurt ego and pride speaking. We can’t let go of the fact that we were hurt and disillusioned. It’s not they that we are holding on to. I hope that’s the case although it doesn’t make it less difficult to overcome this. I hope we have progressed and are honest with ourselves and don’t want them anymore, so that phase is passed. Now on to healing the hurt of the ego. “The easiest” way to think of this would be from the religious point of view: love them as your equal brothers and sisters and let them go. They are free to make their own choices. Our ego is hurting only us. But it is hard for me to think that way. Although I am working toward this direction. One day I hope I can let him go with no bitterness and sadness left. Lynn, I just think we need more time and more healing, but in your case it is really important to start NC to move on. Otherwise this will last forever and drag on for who knows how many months or years! Are you sure you are not secretively (even from yourself maybe – the question I need to ask myself too) waiting for him to break up with her and come back to you? In either case, NC is the best. I know it’s hard. I am lucky my ex left me alone. Each time, although 3 times only that he contacted it set me back 2-4 months back. Recovery again and all the emotions and feelings. It’s impossible to move on while talking to them. Please go NC.
Sofia – I ask myself that question…waiting for him to break up with her and come back to me….and no I don’t think so. There is no way in hell I could trust him…if he cheated on her, I am sure he would cheat on me. And I know that I would just go back to doubting his feelings. I know too much of how EU he is to ever give him another chance. He would just break my heart again. When I first saw a pic of his gf on fb (Before I blocked both of them) I thought, looks like he got the whole package. The pic I saw was her posing in a slutty pose (haha) but I thought she looked pretty. A mutual friend of him and I’s would start telling me things about her (even when I Told her not too) – about how much she hated her for some of her actions and so on and I came to the conclusion that just cause I thought she was pretty doesn’t mean he got the whole package. I guess what I am trying to say is … he doesn’t have what he thinks he wants otherwise he wouldn’t have cheated in my opinion. And I don’t think he will ever find what he thinks he wants because he’s so messed up.
I think the way I feel has to do with how I feel about myself. I seem to have a lot of self worth tied up in the physical and when I gain even a few pounds, I get so down. And maybe knowing he’s so superficial and I was rejected in that way just adds fuel to the self worth wrapped up in physical looks dept. I don’t know. I really do need to start journaling again.
Lynn, I think you are right. It is our bruised self-esteem speaking. Or rather a wounded one. How interesting, I too had body awareness because of him. Prior to him, there was not one man in my life who would say any negative remarks or critical comments toward my body, face, clothes, or anything. He was the first man who made very subtle and dexterously cruel remarks about my weight and even height (he said I was too tall if wearing heels because he was about 172 maybe and skinny). I am fit and not tall. About 54 kg and 164cm height. I had been always confident in my looks before I met him. What’s amazing is that how this slow dripping from an EU, who himself is not confident and insecure, can erode one’s own sense of self! Now, going through some low times and remembering things, I don’t understand how it’s possible that I am STILL affected by his remarks about his tiny skinny ex, and I even mentally COMPARE myself to women of that type STILL. That really bothers me (the fact it’s still on my mind) because evidently for all the time we had been together, almost a year, he had been slowly but surely letting me knowing that I just suck. Not good enough. And it was never direct. It was oh so subtle and always in jokes. He made me feel that I was a big woman with big muscles (I work out but far from being muscular – he doesn’t work out). I was pretty much an elephant!! Anyway, what’s frustrating most of all is that I am recalling all this right now. Your post resonated with me too because you talk about no make up /make up while watching TV at home and extra weight and being conscious about it. When I was dating him, 2nd month into it, he pinched my belly jokingly to indicate that my stomach is supposed to be flat when I am sitting down. That hurt me so much but I laughed it off. And it was like that and jokes/comments like that throughout for months. I think I see now why there has been so much damage to me. And moreover he would blow his charm by inserting in between the blows that I am hot and so beautiful. Even his compliments were EU and non-committed.
The good thing is that I understand I need to rebuild my self-esteem back. There is nothing wrong with me. There is nothing wrong with you, Lynn. The guy is messed up. Has no security. Not confident in himself. Yours and mine ex. They both seem to be similar in many aspects. I know for sure mine was insecure when it hit me with his words such as, “You deserve someone better. You will remember of me as that bastard few months later.” I couldn’t believe my ears. There were other things that indicated insecurities, which I realized only later after clarity kicked in. Short man syndrome, boy-man type looking, etc.
I think we need to continue working on ourselves. Gym helps me, small achievements. Changing a job would be great right now. Setting even small goals and accomplishing them.
And for you of course, NC with him. Like I am recommending to Bec. There can be no moving on and healing from them until you stop engaging with them. That’s the only way as painful as it sounds.
I tried journaling but it didn’t help me much. You can try that. It does help a lot of people.
And your phrase applies to my ex. He said it himself, after I said, ” I hope you will find your perfect one,” he said, ” I might never do.”
Lynn, you said:
“And I don’t think he will ever find what he thinks he wants because he’s so messed up.”
Exactly.
Our goal is to boost our self-esteem and do something new, something different. Make changes. NC. New life.
Sofia – I can’t believe he pinched your belly. That is mortifying and that would effect me a lot. I laughed a lot off too and didn’t really realize it until I went NC and processed things. I should have stuck up for myself more even though I thought I was and not taking his crap but he’s smooth I guess. My ex never really said anything about my weight…I am not obese just over weight, but since not having him in my life my lifestyle is much healthier. Working out, losing weight etc. The one thing I do remember him saying to me was ‘I don’t have a problem with your body, just DON’T gain any more weight.’ I don’t think I ever really thought that statement through until later on. It was a chop. Trying to manage me. Another management statement was when we started dating he said ‘I am not a romantic guy…I don’t think about doing those things.’ He always liked that we were always so comfy around each other. We had days where we would hang out in our jammies and watch movies (even as friends) and guess what? I would hardly have any makeup on let alone had showered so when he said that comment to me about his gf wearing makeup when they watch TV…I was like OMG….you are one of them! and it hurt me. I even was like why didn’t you tell me you like makeup, I could have worn it more. He said he didn’t know…but then I thought why I am trying to prove myself here or whatever….not worth it so I ended the conversation. He also used sarcasm A LOT. Actually hides behind it. The statements your ex said to you at the end are very similar to some of the things mine said. He told me that I deserve better, that hopefully in the future I will see that he is doing this for me and that he knows he’s not good enough for me.
I think for me I just need to be ok with being single. Sometimes I get caught up in knowing that he found someone already – granted it was quick and I am sure its not healthy, but I took the road less traveled and that was to heal and work on myself. Most people don’t do that…they just move onto the next person. Its quite sad actually. I don’t have much planned this weekend and am looking forward to just being by myself enjoying my comfy home. I used to not be like that….I always used to feel like I needed to be doing something at least on a friday night…cause its a friday night! I don’t feel like that much anymore. I am glad that we are having this conversation!
Lynn, how long have you been single and how long did the relationship last? I am asking that because you are saying that you need to be ok being single. You will be. In the first 2 months post breakup I frantically determined to find a replacement ASAP, just a temporary, casual one. I had some crazy one night stand and felt disgusted even during sex and cried during and after. I resolved to heal and stay single as long as needed. That happened about 2 weeks right after the breakup. I don’t think I was in the right state of mind at the time, to put it mildly. It was terrible. Now, 10 months after: I am still single and am not scared that I am single. I am not rushing or looking. I am not terrified at the prospect of remaining single indefinitely.
We must be twin sisters! And our EUms are twin brothers. I used to be so depressed if I didn’t go out on a Friday or Saturday night. Plus because my one-year, permanent consistent dating relationship with the EU was based on Friday and Saturday night going out, I was used to be out. The first few months I had withdrawals addicts’ like pains. I would go out to bars myself and cry driving home. Feeling empty and useless and hating those couples and flirting people. It was so painful to bear it all to be social when I needed healing. So I stopped treating Friday and Saturday night like the time I HAD to be somewhere else but with myself. Gradually I started loving spending time with myself. On the weekends when I am not with my daughter, when she spends time with her dad, I love to read, watch movies, write e-mails, read BR, talk to my friends. Weather permitting, I go for a walk or gym. Occasionally I go out. With a girlfriend or by myself. If I go out by myself, it’s a movie theater or a wine bar, a very cozy quite and safe place where you can talk to a bartender without screaming. No dating like I said. I got used to being single. I feel very comfortable now. And I was like you. I used to panic when I didn’t have a date or flirt for 2 months. There was always some man or ex around. Validating me and boosting my “self-esteem.” I always looked for a fix. A man, his attention, wanting to feel loved and desired. Plus my libido was always so high I thought that how I could ever handle being single. So sad, looking back at it. Not only sad, I am mortified to think it was me. Unbelievable. You will pass this stage. I am at the point where I feel like I am ok being single forever but if someone interesting comes along, I don’t mind trying. But I will not purposefully look.
I remember in the first months after the breakup I exchanged posts with few ladies here. We were talking about “what do you do if you are fine being single emotionally but wanting physical intimacy?” I too was tortured. But now, 10 months after no sex, I guess you just get used to it. Casual sex is not an option to me. Even the idea of it is revolting to me. Sex is a part of a committed, loving relationship where there is love, care, and respect.
So I hear you. This weekend my daughter is with her dad’s family (he remarried few years ago) and they will be having Halloween trick-or-treating, while I will quietly read, watch some movies and rest. On Saturdays and Sundays I have church and in between some chores, more reading, working out. I need to look into Meetups groups but haven’t found anything that fits my schedule so far. I did some volunteering and that was fun. But sometimes when you are in just that mood to stay alone, don’t force it. I am afraid that the way we are brought up is that you constantly have to fill yourself with activities and people. It’s not true. I am finding so much peace and fulfillment now by just staying alone some evenings and reading and thinking and being in quiet and alone time. I have been reading religious literature and what I find is that time alone and solitude time is the best time when you can learn about yourself and explore who you are. Don’t feel pressured to be out and “have fun,” whatever it is. Stay with yourself. Listen to you heart and soul. Heal and the right things and places and people for you will come at the right time. I believe in it. BIG HUGS AND SUPPORT! Thinking and praying for you. One thing I know for sure: we haven’t lost anything or anybody. In the process we are gaining ourselves. We are growing. It is for the best for us. I firmly believe in it, Lynn.
Lynn, I might be running out of Reply possibilities between us in this article, so it could be the last time here.
It is amazing how similar these people are. “Something is missing.” I will never figure out why EUs say that. And about restraining to kiss you: my ex EUM was the same!! He didn’t say he was restraining but I saw many times in his eyes the adoration and feelings he had for me (at the time anyway), but he would control himself not letting his feelings show. He would control sex too and when we have it. It was always on his terms. Control again. You were closer to your EUM than I was to mine. He didn’t let me that far to know the details about his family. I was with him for almost a year and his family knew nothing about me (he was from a different country). His close friends knew of me nothing either. I didn’t know how he grew up. He never told and answered only with generalities when I inquired. Never asked about my childhood. Another weird EU thing I just remembered: he always criticized me when I liked looking at old pictures of my family, my child. He said that I am stuck in the past (???). There were other similar remarks that show and prove that he never thinks of the past. It’s done – it’s done. Cut off feelings, emotions, no nostalgia, no sweet or bad memories. Amazing. Again, remembering all of this in correspondence with you and the other posts I wrote recently I can’t believe I kept staying with him. What was WRONG WITH ME??
I don’t think men, especially EU ones, read these kinds of sites. It’s rare for a man to read such subjects, and if they do it is only because they want to understand their behavior and contribution to the problems in the relationship. It is admirable when men seek for help. It’s not easy for them to reach out and talk and think about feelings. Men in general, EUs in particular. I know my ex EUM doesn’t think he did anything wrong. I know he thinks, “It just didn’t work out. She is not the one for me. Door shut. That’s it.” That’s how he thinks. I don’t know how your ex is thinking, but I doubt very much he would google about relationships and read and write on the subject. You don’t give out his name or place where you live. You are fine. Don’t worry about it. As about a child: it only seems so that you are selfish and have no time for a child. Children change life completely. I always call it a rebirth for a woman. I think so. Because your life is never the same. You learn to love unconditionally. It’s the most amazing feeling and you learn to not be self-centered and selfish anymore. It’s a life-time growth. And you can do it alone, believe me. I have for almost all of my child’s life. Her dad sees her regularly on his weekends, but mostly I raise her alone. I don’t have any family around. You can do it if you want to!
I will try to stay positive this weekend. I wish the same to you. Hugs!!
funny thing I wanted to add: he had a rule – to take shower after sex immediately!! even if there was no sweat. I wanted to stay in bed, hug and cuddle, talk a bit, mess around.. no such thing…It’s just so creepy if I think about it now. I never had a guy like that. If he were a married cheating guy, I would understand, but I was staying with him all evening and night after that sex and morning after, there was no reason too. It’s so weird. It’s like they literally wash away intimacy and feelings off them. I never met a person like that. I felt guilty for wanting him. And so many other things. I won’t go on. you get the picture. Please take care of yourself. I hope you have girlfriends, family around. Wish I could share my contact with you. Best Wishes.
Sofia – Hi! I have been single since we broke up last year in May. So single for a year and 4 months. I went on a few dates this year with a nice guy but I just wasn’t feeling it. I guess what I mean about being okay single is that for the most part I am okay being single because honestly I love being able to travel, do what I want, sleep in, etc. But I guess I miss companionship. Just have that one person you know you can contact at any time. Granted I have some amazing friends and I know that I can contact them whenever I want, but they all have husbands and kids. I guess when you are one of the few single girls left in your circle of friends it can be tough but then some of them tell me how envious they are of my life…and I always say well you have what I want. He was always so available to hang out because he has hardly any friends and the 1 or 2 friends he does have he never sees them, only through the computer playing their games. I haven’t slept around except for sleeping with him when he bombarded me….I can’t imagine just doing a one night stand, I am like you, I want to love the person and be in a committed relationship. I feel like my ex was one big exception to all my morals and boundaries. I did fwb a long time ago in college and knew I never wanted to do it again yet my ex walked into my life and we fell into fwb. Then we were together. Then fwb again. It was like a habit and I couldn’t say no because I enjoyed it so much. He flooded me with physical attention that I hadn’t had in so long. I resisted for awhile but then just went for it. He always told me that I didn’t put up with his shit and he liked that, and maybe in a way I didn’t but he also knew how to manipulate me without me catching on right away. He knows how to get what he wants, when he wants and he doesn’t care how he does it.
A friend asked me to hang out tonight but I think I am actually going to stay in and watch dvr in bed and sleep in tomorrow. I am an introvert by nature and haven’t had a lot of time at home lately. If you met me you would never know I was an introvert, but I need to get my energy from being alone.
My ex never showered after we had sex…sometimes he wouldn’t shower until 2 days later which kinda grossed me out. Did I mention he’s lazy? LOL We would have sex 2 days in a row and he still wouldn’t have showered…he was very particular though about being clean for oral. He usually cuddled with me and we would talk. He actually enjoyed cuddling which for someone so turned off emotionally I thought was odd. However, when it came to holding hands or giving each other a kiss when saying goodbye, he never thought about it. I always was the one grabbing his hand when we were out or asking for a kiss at night. He would tell me how he just didn’t think about it…and that these things didn’t have to happen all the time. I had to tell him that I liked these things…I wish we could connect outside of BR. I do have natalie’s email because I took one of her courses, maybe I could email her and she could connect us? Would you be up for that? If so, I will email her this weekend after you let me know.
Lynn, there is no Reply button after your most recent post, so I am “replying” to myself. Sure, please contact her.
So you have been single for a while now. I know what you mean about meeting a nice guy but not feeling it. We can’t force a relationship if the guy is nice and it doesn’t mean we are unavailable ourselves or need drama. Sometimes we just don’t feel it. I haven’t been on dates. Even the idea of it makes me cringe. Just thinking about all the phases and stages of the initial dating. I don’t know why. I guess I am not ready. Or maybe because I won’t to surpass all the dating phases and just have a relationship, but that doesn’t work that way I guess. I feel like I would like something naturally to develop. For instance becoming friends at first, doing some hobby together, working on a project and becoming close that way. All the romantic, superficial stuff bores me out of my mind. But then I think, when I was dating my ex, it was so natural and just flowing. We hit off so well and I never felt anything awkward. Felt like such a right match… And I do know it’s hard to find a person, with whom you can connect on many different levels, not just physical chemistry. But like my ex said when breaking up with me, “It is not enough what we have. Yes we have fun and great connection, but it’s not enough. I don’t see you as my wife. Something is missing.”
I had to accept it. I asked, “What are you looking for? Nobody is perfect. You will have to adjust and accommodate to other people too. There is no perfect harmony and balance with anyone. It is always work and bending yourself some way or another to make a relationship work especially after the initial feelings and honey moon go away.”
But he had never been in a long-term relationship or committed to anyone. He doesn’t know what it is.
I was married before and even though I didn’t follow what I preach now, I do know it takes work, patience, compassion, and commitment. No relationship can survive if one follows her/his ego and momentarily passions or distractions or doubts.
I understand what you mean about companionship. I do miss it too a lot. Even though I am comfortable with myself, enjoy my space and being alone, I do miss being with someone. Sharing things, talking, laughing, being with each other during bad or good times.
I am blessed I have my daughter. I can’t imagine how I would have felt being alone. I probably would adopt a child. I am in my late 30s, so it’s the age where the prospect of having a child gradually goes down especially I mean if there is no partner.
Sofia – I sent a request to Natalie. You also had asked me how long we were together – our relationship lasted 7 months but we were inseparable for pretty much 2.5 years. Even when we got into a relationship he had said ‘really, its like we’ve been in a relationship the last 1.5 years without putting a title on it.’ I told him that wasn’t fair because part of that time he wanted to be with someone else.
My ex said the same thing to me…something is missing. He also said to me once that he felt like he should want to kiss me every time he looks at me but he doesn’t. I think he thinks love should be like the movies. That he should always feel passion and excitement for his partner. He was married. His divorce devastated him and in my opinion ruined him. On top of that he has two parents who verbally/physically abused him when he was younger, telling him he wouldn’t amount to anything and he just became emotionally unavailable in every aspect except when it comes to his kids. He lived with his mom for the majority of the time we hung out, and they would get in fights that made me so uncomfortable and cringe. She would sometimes send me messages like ‘what did I do for you to turn my son against me?’ The context of her even sending it was ridiculous as it was an issue between them and he had asked me for my opinion, apparently he liked my opinion and she knew it came from me. I always thought if he treats his mom like this he is eventually going to treat me like this but he said he never would. He never did, but he did have his belittling moments when he would get angry and of course his sarcasm and chopping.
Sometimes when I am typing all this out on this site I have a thought of what if he finds this and reads what I wrote? I know that is highly unlikely because he would ask me about stuff and I would have to look up the answer!
I’ve thought about adopting. I am 36 and desire to have a child but I am also selfish with my time and am afraid to do it alone. I think I will be fine if I don’t have my own child…but I would like to meet someone who truly adores me and has my best interest at heart.
Sofia – I have been reading Nat’s articles for the past month since breaking up with my EU – and am 5 weeks in to NC. Whenever I feel weak or down, I go to her blog and read SOMETHING/ANYTHING to pull me back to reality. As I opened this particular blog – for some reason, I just first wanted to scroll down to read the comments. Without having even read the blog first, YOUR WORDS profoundly spoke to me. Thank you for sharing your experience, and the wisdom you have gained. I know at some point the pain will subside, but for now – especially during this time of year – it’s a real challenge to stay upbeat. The comments section of Nat’s blogs are just as valuable as what she writes. Thank you Sofia. xoxo
So true Nat! I agree completely. I always picked these jerks who were womanizing handsome heartless assholes thinking “if I settle down the bad boy, I must be special”. It’s more than the chase, it’s tying your value as you said. I realized this about my past and have been working feeling I deserve the best because I’m a great person and have a whole package one of those “types” doesn’t even deserve. To think I thought I could change them. They are who they are and I don’t care to “fix” anybody anymore.
To add I also thought I was the “girl” to change my recent two year ex. He was single for twelve years until me and I thought “wow I must be who he was waiting to settle down with”. Little did I know he was entertaining other women behind my back. He was single for so long for a REASON. He is dysfunctional and unavailable to the core. No changing a man like that and I wish any woman luck! But hey, this was my “aha” relationship that brought me to realizing love starts with me, because thinking I was that girl to change him and realizing he is still the same womanizer, I got my answer that putting myself out there for someone like that is not worth it. 9 times out of 10 they are still the same jerk for life (the types you may marry but still cheat on their wives! Who wants that? Not me!).
Nat, I too, wish I had found your site two years ago, but as Sofia said above, it would probably haven’t registered with me. I guess I had to go through a tragically painful codependent-EU (narcissist) relationship to realize things for myself. What made it worse is that I am a clinical psychologist and the “I should have known better” syndrome keeps hunting me. That goes to show you how deeply rooted some behavioral patterns are, and how easily we fall back into our own worst thinking circles. I did fall in love with the potential, and I was deluded to believe that noone has ever seen and appreciated that “side” of him. I was so proud of being able to stick around when everyone else was abandoning him. I was the “special” one. The fact that all women left him PISSED at him, that his friends called an emotional vampire, that he was saying things like “i lost, and I never lose” when he was referring to women should have been enough of a huge red flag for me to leave. But I didn’t. Again i was in the “i see you better than the others, and you will appreciate it” mode. He left me empty, bitter, angry.It’s been 5 months since our break up, and it is only now, that i start to see things as they are. So many red flags, so many insults. I can’t believe I stayed for so long. He is still the same EU arrogant asshole he was when i first met him.
It’s been quite a journey, but please all of you out there who are still in those types of relationships, take a minute to reflect on your values and your definition of what I deserve love means. It is quite a hit a cruel one to realize that you were not that special.He doesn’t have in his emotional vocabulary to appreciate any your traits. That realization set me free.
Virginia77,
“He doesn’t have in his emotional vocabulary to appreciate any your traits. That realization set me free.”
Exactly. Will they ever expand their emotional capacity? We will never know and we don’t need to know. I have a feeling that in order for this kind of commitment-phobe, emotionally unavailable people to change they have to go through some kind of shock and trauma that will overhaul their entire world. We should not concern ourselves with their lives though. We are lucky and blessed we dodged the bullet and are free from them. I don’t miss the anxiety, emptiness, fear, panic, doubt, humiliation. So happy to be out of the mess I was in, and I know many of us were.
Dear Sofia,
I can feel the angriness in your words and can recognise myself in them. One of those things that was hard to assume was that I wasn’t that importante, was only one more in the harém; i also think that these kind of people may only change it something very bad happens in their lives and that they may see the f.. jerks they were with the women who stupidly stay there to see and suffer. I imagine that there should be lots of women like me, wishing him all the worst things in the world… I did and still do, sorry my evil part! my bitterness and anger made me do it; I was so f.. anfry with the hummiliation in put myself through, the love i begged, the feeling of not being enough continuously, asking why the hell don’t to want to be with the me? what is missing? now i understand that this has do do with former unsolve situations with parents that did not look at me as a parente should and never had time for me, his daughter when there was no mom left.. i was seeking validation for an EU to try to turn my father in a avalible person and think: oh, finally I prove myself i’m worth; wrong! no EU turns available validates you for the value you did not received in the past, on the contrary, he/she will deepen and deepen your feeling on unworth and confirm you don’t deserve better… it’s a dead end with you dead at the end…
She,
I completely agree about the patterns: parent-child. I had emotionally unavailable parents. I didn’t know what love from a parent was.
I am not angry at my ex and I don’t hate him. I passed those phases and they were short although repeated for couple cycles.
I am rather in awe and disbelief that I could allow such treatment that’s why I am describing here everything so emotionally. It seems like it was a different person in the same body. It could not be possibly me a year ago!
The most important thing that I learned is that I take responsibility for my own actions and break the pattern. I finally understand why I chose such person and what happened later and the outcome. A friend of mine used to say back when I used to complain about all the wrong men that I meet, “You pick them yourself.” I was annoyed with her comment. I can see clearly now.
Sofia,
“A friend of mine used to say back when I used to complain about all the wrong men I meet “you pick them yourself”.
This is so true! We keep hanging on trying to fix the unfixable in the ‘relationship’ we think we have and want with these guys when they already know they will never stay and we are at best only there part time until they move onto the next girl. They don’t love or care for us and certainly don’t want to marry us either.
One day the ex AC was having a real rant about his ex wife re money and the kids and after listening to this and his character assessment of her, the words came out of my mouth, ‘well, you picked her’.
At that stage I couldn’t see that I had done the same thing, picked someone who was never going to love me the way I deserve, same as he did when he picked the gold digging woman who took him to the cleaners.
Beats me why I stayed for 5 long years with the most difficult man I have ever met in my life.
All water under the bridge now, I had my epiphany moment one day down at the beach, dumped the AC and haven’t looked back since. It’s taken a couple of years to get myself back together and at this stage and I’m cruising, still reading BR regularly and all the comments when I have time.
I have a gorgeous 15month old granddaughter to spoil and play with, lots of nice friends and a busy social life with my family and friends, (can’t say how much I enjoy not having that assclown or any others lurking around any more.) Maybe one day I’ll meet a good guy, maybe not. One think I do know, he sure won’t be a fixer-upper!
Pauline,
I know the feeling: freedom and enjoyment of your life now. Content, full, free of anxiety, surrounded by love and care of your family and friends.
I noticed that now I have started experiencing every aspect of my life more fully. Appreciating everything more, enjoying each moment more presently without worrying what is going to happen next and the good things never last (my previous thinking patterns). Life after EUs/ACs is so much more colorful, peaceful, enjoyable. It’s like when you had a cold you couldn’t enjoy food or wine or being outside because your head is congested, you cannot taste or smell anything. Now, that we are recovered everything does not only look and taste good it tastes even better than before the cold because we had been through sickness and now are ready and eager to live our life to the fullest free of the virus! Bad analogy, but it just came to my mind that life without them is SO MUCH BETTER!! And I thought I could not live without him!
My ex’s daughter passed away which while not entirely unexpected, was a huge shock. I supported him as much as I was able from a distance (we were not together) and he then wanted to get back with me. I was wary and wanted to take it slowly as he had betrayed my trust previously with OW but he took it as an opportunity to get what he wanted and treat me even worse. Final devalue and discard was 5 months ago and he has moved on to greener pastures without a second thought. I need to lose the addiction to the drama,anxiety and emptiness and be grateful that I am free.
Virginia77 – your post brings back memories of people telling he’s an ass, he has no emotions, he will never change etc. BUT I thought that I had seen and appreciated a side to him as well that no one else knew. He was a chopper…but he did it a way that I didn’t realize it was chopping until several months NC.
This was such an excellent post. I feel like sending this to my ex BUT I WON’T. I’ll just learn from it.
ZING! There goes another one….
I am already struggling to mentally process the massive load of information from reading various posts on BR and the advice given in the comments as I try to navigate my way through the excruciating process of ending a 15-year nightmare of a marriage, and here is more! I feel an awful case of cognitive indigestion coming on….
With respect to the quiz, only #1 rang true for me. The reason why this thing is still going on is 100% due to my blind and bloody-minded determination to…I HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHY!
No…wait…It’s due to my blind and bloody-minded determination to cling at all costs to someone I felt a deep connection to and bulldoze out a tolerable environment for myself in the face of being highly incompatible sexually, in day-to-day habits/lifestyle/priorities, and having profound conflicts across the board at a core values level. Stupid me….
As I think back on how the whole thing started over 16 years ago while I was living in a location where viable options for me were indeed limited and I was in “adaptive mode”, i.e., having to adapt to conditions I would normally find intolerable in order to survive (Tokyo, Japan where the western boys are spoiled for choice with over solicitous Japanese girls and the Japanese boys are…well…let’s just say there is a VERY good reason why there are so few Japanese male/western Female couples!), the subconscious thought process driving my decision may well have been along the lines of, “Yeah, this guy is an even bigger hot mess than I am so I get to feel better by comparison; and god forbid I hook up with someone who has their shit together since it will put a spotlight on how much I don’t!”
The last guy I was with before I moved all the way to Japan partially to get away from him (!) took me on as a “fixer-upper” and then tossed me in the scrap heap when he discovered another girl a few doors down from me who apparently needed more fixing, so maybe I was trying to right that wrong?? One thing I do know is that some of my rationalizations for staying in the abusive relationship with my husband that had me in the red zone from Day One were 1) an unhealthy fascination with something that could hurt me; and 2) an observation by my buffer in the relationship with the other (EU)guy that “He has made his world so small and has everything so tightly controlled that there is no room for anyone else in there with him.”, and I didn’t (and still don’t) want to be like that.
I now realise that my husband duplicates my pathology in many areas (while adding a goodly amount of his own unique brand of Crazy to the mix) but takes it to such a caricatured extreme that I never recognized my own reflection in it, possibly because I have put off doing my own work for so long.
JEEE-ZUSSSS!!! From one of the linked articles:
“With the rehab route, you’re a fixing/healing/helping Florence Nightingale that needs to feel needed. His problems give you a purpose, and you believe that if you love enough, even ‘major issues’ can be overcome, for you. You make yourself the solution to problems that aren’t yours to fix and that require more than love and a woman to resolve. You’re often righting the wrongs of the past as a parent/ caregiver tends to be very similar to your partners, and with your low self-esteem, you think a man with problems will be grateful for your love and reciprocate. Having no idea how to meet your own needs, you become frustrated at being deprioritised and your own problems go unaddressed as you’re always distracted. You want to make everything better, but you’re actually making things worse.
Renovators can pretty much date any Mr Unavailable or even a decent, available guy and try to fix and make him over, but you tend to be with Opportunists, guys who get involved because you serve the purpose of being useful. On the take, they have little or no regard for your feelings, and because of your renovating ways, they see it as their right to exploit the situation. Florences end up with Woundeds, men with excess baggage in the form of emotional and behavioural problems; addictions such as sex, gambling, alcoholism and drugs; and in some instances they may even be abusive. Whatever their problems are, they completely affect their ability to be in a relationship.”
That describes me and my colossally fucked up marriage perfectly. Holy. Fucking. Shit. There are no words. I have to go lie down for a bit….
This also strikes a chord with me:
“You either seem to think you can bulldoze your changes on any man or you refuse to see problems for what they are.”
In the early stages of my relationship with my husband that I am now trying to break free from, I instantly found myself faced with numerous conditions that made me very uncomfortable and critically interfered with my own authentic life path that I was in the nascent stages of exploring at that time, and mistakenly thought I could steamroll him into changing his habits and personal space in order to make them tolerable to me. I realise now that my inveterate reaction to problems in any area that’s important to me, however insurmountable they may appear, is to perceive them as petty deterrents that if I throw enough energy and brute strength at them, I can blast through them and accomplish what I intend to, and if I do not perceive them as a significant impediment in my path that warrants mowing down, I just avoid them as I do with traffic cones and other vehicles when on my motorcycle. Perhaps I have taken that to an unhealthy extreme??
Let me clarify: I do NOT *intentionally* mow other people down to get what I want. It just occurred to me that in trying to solve a problem that is making my life intolerable (eg: we would always stay at his place since it made no sense to stay at mine, and having to spend time in a room full of cigarette smoke is torture for me, as is getting injured bumping into some piece of furniture or tripping over some pile of crap every time I move because he is a hoarder and his place was jammed to the ceiling full of clutter and junk), I may have been doing that. I now understand that if I am encountering this in a relationship and it cannot be solved without one person having to change who they are to accommodate the other person, I need to JUST GET OUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP.
This is the outcome of this particular doomed marriage:
“he stays but refuses to change so you end up living in Misery City”.
I have been trying to get rid of him for years, but he won’t go away because he is benefitting so hugely from both my competence and my reluctance to throw him out and leave him with the consequences of refusing to lift a finger to make himself viable. Now since he came back from Japan after working there for five months, he is behaving absolutely angelically and seems to be making at least superficial attempts to change, but at this point I am played out!
Thanks Nat. As usual, I have to read this post slowly, to let it all sink in and process what I have done wrong all these years. Trust me ladies, my ex AC/EUM 23 years later after reconnecting is EXACTLY THE SAME. Although, he made a brilliant effort of showing me how he had changed, then he rejected me again. So since I am now sure not to let someone reject me a third time, I am through trying. It is interesting as his hook to come back was saying, “Oh, you were so special to me. You totally changed my life, you always saw the potential in me and I finally rose to your challenge.” Really? When we got back together as friends, he was all ears, then it turned into his just wanting to be an emotional vampire and I got sucked in. No more, I am NC for now over 2 months. He recently sent me the test entry email saying, “Well, it has been over 3 weeks…” I thought to myself, why is he counting? Was he actually waiting until a certain amount of time had passed before he tried to get back in contact with me, after he said he needed space and time to do his thang? I was not counting the weeks, so he is the same AC I knew in my past life. I deleted the email and sent him to spam, but quick. Buh-bye AC, baby, peace out.
Adele, he came back after 23 years!?
I believe you and agree with you that this type of people might never change. During my first months of healing and even recently I was killing myself with thoughts and jealousy, “What if he is with someone now and all changed and available and loves her and gives her what he didn’t give me?”
First of all, like Nat says in many of her articles, it doesn’t matter with whom he is and how he is now. It’s his life. He didn’t value ME. And that’s enough of the answer.
Secondly, this type of people don’t change unless something happens to them that triggers the change. I don’t believe that a person who can string another person along for months and pass the time while knowing the other person had the expiration date, can change quickly overnight with someone else. The core of that individual is solid in unavailability and calculated, pragmatic taking while he can. And true, he might be the same twenty years later unless something profound and life changing happens to him and he is willing to work on his issues. But the change has to come internally. No one can change them.
Sofia, so true. I guess even when people have “unfinished business” all of the old problems arise and it is just never going to work out. I agree with what you are saying also.
I had a first date with man from where I work- a very large college & medical center. He drove like a maniac on suburban streets & when I asked him to drive the speed limit he refused saying ….blah blah… I discovered during the rest of the date that He is more than a Fixer-Upper, he’s more of a Demolition project.
BuhBye, No More Dates with him!
Demolition project! Love that, LilDebby! Yes, very disrespectful to your legitimate fears about his assclown driving. Hopefully a cop will pick him up and an expensive ticket will be his karma; but at least you don’t have to be around when it happens!
The best way to change a relationship is by changing yourself. It is amazing how much our own perceptions and reactions can influence our partners and, as a result, our relationships. You can’t change another’s actions, but you can always change your response.
I just came out of one of these relationships….only I was the project to the man. He is well off financially and older than me and kept saying how I need to be upgraded into a better lifestyle and how he wanted to help me. He proceeded to tell me what I needed to be and how I needed to be. At first, I was flattered. My lifestyle isn’t so bad, I rent in a great area downtown by the ocean, but I have been wanting to move for a long time into a house, preferably with a man. He lives in a posh area on a hill with an ocean view, had just bought a house and is renovating it. He was also trying to renovate me. All he cared about was how I took care of myself, with food, exercise, and the clothes I wore, all of which I was doing great with on my own. Then it got into how I talked, he thought I should always express without showing emotion and never raising my voice, this coming from a man who shares the same cultural background as I and it’s a very expressive culture. I was surprised, yet he told me he learned to do it, so can I . He basically was monitoring my speech! Ok, I am expressive, as is he no matter what he says, yet I had to practically whisper. I know I am strong and an independent thinker, which he also didn’t like, but I went along with the no show of emotion to practice not reacting because other men have commented on this. Anyways, then he went on to tell me that when we live together I can’t go dancing anymore….and on it went. The bottom line was that he didn’t like the real me at all, he just liked the parts he liked, I was a good foundation for his fixer upper project. He wanted me to be a certain way, dress a certain way and to abandon my life to join his. He even said this when we first met, will I be able to leave my old life. I was thinking will I be able to move from where I am and I said hell yeah, no problem. I didn’t realize I would have to abandon my dreams, which he didn’t even care to hear about, my activities and interests, such as dance and spirituality. When I pushed back, which I did, he softened up on the spirituality, but no dancing with other men..ever, and I’m a dancer, he said he would dance with me, but he’s not a dancer. This all came out when we went away for a weekend. After the weekend, he never called back, we had been dating for 5 weeks. I know, he did me a favor, I could never live up to his demands and I’m too independent and too old to be treated this way. It was an interesting exercise in standing up for myself. I felt somehow powerful, even with his controlling nature, I felt in control throughout because I stood up for my true self. I’m sure he left because in his mind, this project had too many structural problems! I tried calling him when we came back, and he sounded controlled (trying to control his emotions) and the conversation didn’t seem to go anywhere and then he was very agitated and abruptly told me he’ll call me later and hung up. It’s been a week and I haven’t heard back, nor do I expect to. We met online and that’s where he is again I’m sure of it. This seems to be a case of the frog who wanted to be Prince Charming and take me to his castle….curious, maybe Cinderella didn’t have it so good afterwards either.
whatever,
Your story sounds like a nightmare! I am glad you are out of it so fast. The question to ask yourself though: why did you contact him after he had disappeared?
I reread your story again. This man is a nutcase, controlling, manipulative psycho. It gives me chills reading it. Kind of funny too but not too much because it’s scary also.
Amazing and sad though there are women out there who just fall into this kind of golden, “comfy” net because they need “pampering” and “being taken care of.”
He sounds like a leader of some secret sect in his posh, ocean view mansion.
I hope he won’t contact you again. You met him online I see. Another proof that the online world is dangerous and full of strange people, to put it mildly.
You sound like an independent strong woman with a life full of her own with interests, hobbies, and activities. I am surprised you tolerated this creep for 5 weeks.
Wow, the stories out there. Just when you think you have heard it all.
Sofia,
I contacted him a few days after we came back, he didn’t contact me after that conversation. He may not have ever contacted me. Even if it was over, I thought we could be adult about it, but he chose to disappear. At the beginning, the extent of his controlling nature was not clear to me. I did accuse him of it early on, but he assured me he was not this way. It wasn’t until the trip that it all became clear.
I don’t think a person like that can be adult about it. I think he is a bit … well, crazy. Good riddance, whatever. I don’t know maybe I am overly cautious now, but he sounds dangerous. I am glad he is out of your life!
Sofia
Thanks, the sad part is that I actually wanted to be rescued by a man so I can move forward in my life. This guy gave me a taste of what that would be like and how abusive it could turn out to be. I wanted the rescuing, not the controlling. Perhaps they go hand in hand. A good lesson for me.
Dear whatever,
“Rescuing” and controlling are the same things, you are right.
From what I am reading from your posts you don’t need rescuing.
I am quoting your sentences: “My lifestyle isn’t so bad, I rent in a great area downtown by the ocean. ” – it looks like you like where you live and you are settled.
I took care of myself, with food, exercise, and the clothes I wore, all of which I was doing great with on my own,” – you are comfortable with yourself.
“it’s a very expressive culture,” – you are proud of your identity and your culture, which is good.
” I am strong and an independent thinker,my activities and interests, such as dance and spirituality.” – you have your stand, your opinions, your life and interests.
You don’t need rescuing! You have everything you need. You have you and your full, independent life.
I would suggest counseling to dig deeper to figure out why you need “rescuing.” To me you sound like a sufficient, mature woman.
Hence I am very confused why you needed rescuing.
Sofia,
Thank you for your words of encouragement. You are right, I don’t need rescuing, I was brought up to think that a man would ‘take care of me’. Hasn’t happened, I’ve had to take care of myself. I guess old imprints die hard. I still seem to pick so called successful men who my parents would want for me that can ‘take care of me’. Problem is, I often don’t like them, especially when they are controlling like this one is.
I tried to go out with more creative or spiritual men like me, but they are often not security oriented and were often really bad with money and I can’t handle that either.
So, yes, I take care of myself, but not as well as I’d like and I guess I feel I could have a better lifestyle with a successful man, but after this experience with this man, I am wondering. I need to rethink this and my criteria for a man. Thank you so much for your words of encouragement and for the reality check.
This premise is so true! If a person has to shape shift into the kind of person you want then they are the ones for you. I don’t think I tried to make the EUM change, I just wouldn’t accept that he couldn’t be the man that I wanted. I realized I was upset at him because he wasn’t acting or being the type of man I wante him to be.
When I woke up and saw him for who he was it was much easier to let go. I even told him after he tried to come back with some lame relatioship proposal that he was not the one for me and that we wanted different things from a relationship. The fact is I wouldn’t have wanted him to change for me because I wouldn’t change for him or anybody else.
My belief is he left me for whatever reasons for somebody else who he perceived as “better” and this by no means made me feel as if something was wrong with me! Because I knew no matter who he ended up with, he was going to be the same and it was them who would have to change in order to be with him. I just knew it wouldn’t be me.
“they are not the one for you”. Sorry typo
I’m always hearing it that I’m “too picky” because I say (and I try to stick to it to the maximum possible) that if I can’t deal with him AS IS, I have to pass. Mortal men can meet my standards — I have met a couple who did.
This is my policy because by the same token I wouldn’t want someone who got into a relationship with me thinking I wasn’t enough as I was at first, and needed to somehow change to meet their standards or ideals.
NoMo drama
I hear you. I have been accused of this too and I do believe you can’t be with someone who doesn’t like you the way you are, which is what I just went through in a short relationship with a man who wanted to change me in a number of ways, all in making me better, according to him…which would kill my creative spirit.
Ditto here. Not only are we called “too picky” by folk in our communities, but also by damned near every relationship blog EXCEPT this one. Thank you Natalie. Although the pickings areslim in this region, I still bail if someone is not working out or is plumb full of red flags. One really has to walk if it ain’t working. Lonely as hell but relieved trauma man is outta my life. Feel bad for his horrific experience but no one was going to fix that except him. Tis as though what happened to him years ago now completely defines who he is. Made my own mistakes by trying to get him to be more affectionate for too long but did right by recognizing that this was due to where he was at and I very wisely never attached emotionally, just let him unfold. Not sure if I am going to be able to get another job so I can leave, wondering if I should bother with on line again as it amounted to nothing last time. Still am relieved to be able to get stuff done, work in a disciplined way without being criticised for doing “too much”. It’s also to be totally deprived of any physical affection because of total aloneness rather than being deprived while ostensibly with someone.
Now when I am finally free from my EU I realize one thing about possibility of changing bad man to good man.Bad man were born bad and good men were born good.That’s the way it is.It’s not about hobbies,taste in music,food etc.It’s about heart,soul and honor.And unless someone borrow them these qualities they will stay who they are:bad men(without heart,soul and honor).Other women who will maybe stick with them longer are either bad like them(but to you may look good) or they are the biggest doormat ever.They don’t change them they are just convenient and honestly I don’t want to be convenient for someone without heart and soul .Thanks,but no thanks.:-)I want a man who will be proud to have me and vice versa.The one with heart and soul and not just pretty facade.You can’t change someone nature because if someone like to use women they will do that as long as they live.And if someone like to treat women with respect and love they will do that.Just ask yourself :would you like to find a new man who would treat you as your ex EU?I don’t think so.Not in this life.:-)The possibility for my ex to become good is exactly the same as for me to become bad:ZERO.Snakes are snakes and doves are doves.God had good reason for making things that way.Enough said:-)Gotta go to find my male dove.:-)Wish you all love!!
Whatever,
This guy is a control freak!
I too, do not understand why you made contact! Please do not respond if he reaches out!
Allison
As I responded to Sofia, I actually wanted to be rescued. Now, I can see what that can actually look like and it’s not only abusive, but it felt like a trap. I felt I would feel trapped with him because we didn’t have enough in common and I would possibly lose myself, or have to fight for myself…and I know that wouldn’t last long.
I think that for me, the issue was that I expected certain decent, rational behaviour out of everyone. When that didn’t happen, I was confused by it and tried to figure it out rather than realizing that the explanation was simply that the person was an ass. Granted, I also had EU parents, one parent in particular who would occasionally be interested in spending time with me as a child, but was mostly uninvolved and mean/critical. When the AC pursued me knowing I was in a long term relationship and went on about our “souls connecting”, etc etc, I thought he must have seen real potential and wanted to pursue a relationship. Embarrassingly, at the very beginning when I said something to him like “are you sure you want to do this?” ~to confirm where he was at~ he suddenly had a response that went something like “Are you talking about a relationship? Whoa whoa….you seem cool, but I don’t really know you.” When he would seem so interested at times, then be “busy” with some project and make no time for me ~note that he didn’t even have a job, so he had all kinds of time~ I didn’t understand it ~ you seem interested in me, you seem to want to spend time with me ~ what’s going on? Who does this? There are all kinds of other much worse examples and he treated me terribly, but my point is that I didn’t see myself as trying to change him, I just wasted time being confused by the behaviour rather than accepting that it was all because this is who he is. And I didn’t realize that I was attracted to the familiar dynamic of someone who would treat me badly. I have such disgust for these types. For him to have pursued me at all if he wasn’t serious is just so awful. If you just want something casual, find something who wants the same thing. What kind of person tries to homewreck an individual if they’re not serious….going on and on with grandiose talk of what’s between the two of you and what could be. Fortunately, thanks in large part to BR, I’m no longer confused by such BS behaviour, and have realized that I can’t project my assumptions of what must be happening based on my own way of thinking/common decency onto others. There are terrible people out there who are selfish users and don’t give a shit about what they are doing to others. That guy acted as he did because he’s a messed up ass****. He probably wanted some attention and an ego boost and to get some sex, and likes the “fun” part of pretending to be interested in the beginning. He doesn’t think about the future or anyone else, he just does what he feels like doing in the moment.
Thankyou for sharing your recent experience re (unknowingly at 1st) being cast in the role of a fixer upper project. One thing that struck me as I read your words was the connection you made between being rescused & controlled. I think you might be right. Intuitively, I suspect these two things go hand in hand in such a scenerio.
It helped me to read your post as I’m inching closer toward being ready to date again, after four years of self imposed healing time / not dating, during which I got rid of an ex from many years earlier that caused me deep distress this time around then later died, & became seriously ill, causing my life to change radically. I am currently unable to work (I last worked in early 2011) & am battling a diagnosis for a physical illness I received during this peroid that I’m told is ‘incurable’ (my comment: I WILL cure myself 100% eventually. I must. I need to get bk to work so I can start saving for my retirement).
I’m financially okish in the meantime (my home is paid off & I have a small nest egg of savings) but must live frugally as my income is now very limited. I am currently bk at university (I was 2/3rds through my degree when disaster struck), doing just one subject online & will be returning on campus nect yr, doing only 2 subjects for the yr to begin with.
Notwithstanding I will be appearing at a Royal Commission next year & that I expect to be destabilsing to some extent as the subject matter is related to abuse I endured as a child that affected me profoundly (but also sowed the seeds of my dogged determination to succeed & be resiliant), when that is over I am thinking of maybe dating again. I’m not sure yet. If I wait until me degree is finished to date I will be waiting a long time & possibly too long. I’d rather wait until I’m bk to work to date but that will take even longer as I intend to go into a masters degree & if my research is approved possibly a phd.
Hence, at SOME point, I may seem like a fixer upper to someone else! I so don’t want to ever be controlled again (this characterising the abuse I endured as a child) & I certainly DON’T need rescuing (as all is very much in hand).
I don’t know what will happen yet but I’m hoping a decent man out there will recognise the work I’ve done thus far & understand we can’t all wait until our lives are perfect before getting bk in the game. I’m 44 yo & paid my home off on my own a year ago. This is unusual & should be an indicator that I am driven to succeed in life, even if there are setbks along the way.
Thankyou again for sharing yr experience. It really got me thinking. 🙂
teachable- I’m always inspired by your posts. I connected strongly with your desire for a decent man to recognize all the hard work you’ve done and to understand we can’t wait until our lives are perfect before we get back in the game. This is where I’ve been lately too. If I wait until I’m perfect or my life is perfect I’ll be waiting the rest of my life as it won’t ever happen. There will always be challenges to face and overcome. No exceptions to life’s rules of behavior. 😉
A, you have summarized some really good and helpful observations. I can relate to a lot of them and to understand that your “normal” is not their “normal” is a huge task and it takes a while to really implement this.
So many times on dates I have scratched my head and said to myself: Wow, did he really just said this outrageous thing…I could write a whole book about that ( my fav one from a very fit and attractive 53year old guy on 2nd date saying proudly: “from down here (pointing downwards from navel) I am 25!!” If it wouldn’t be so pathetic, it would be funny.
Before I discovered BR I would hear it (the outrageous statements) but not assign the necessary value to it because I was so disconnected from myself and chasing after the feeling/possibility of a relationship, probably EU myself…you know how it goes….
Thank you Natalie for shedding light on this very basic truth that we have to accept reality even if it is an inconvenient truth.
For me it is an ongoing process and it is not something that I own, I am working on it every day and with every new date and encounter that I have it gets tested. It can be quite interesting getting to know myself, very empowering asserting these values to myself and all of the sudden you really don’t want to change any of these guys anymore. My motto is, that if it doesn’t come freely it doesn’t come from the heart and it is not real (just part of an agenda), so I don’t want it. The power plays are not appealing anymore, they just leave you exhausted and hurt.
I have to say that this serious low BS diet has resulted in no physical intimacy for a year now and while I miss it, I only want it with the right person who treats me and acts accordingly. I have been on a lot of first and second dates (using an online site but not exclusively) The guys either turned out to be shady, EU or unstable and thanks to BR I am able to determine that now. The last two relationships I had were with EU and EU/Assclown so I am familiar with that and while it is sad I had to go through the experience I learned so much about myself and I also know now what is healthy and acceptable and what is not. I am optimistic that I will meet someone that is emotionally healthy and normal, it might not be soon though…
In my current journey to work on my behavior, this article was gold. I am a people pleaser and thought I was the knight in shining armor and he would love me more than all th others. Wrong, wrong, wrong. It’s been a tough lesson and even more difficult to admit my behavior is flawed. But I am getting there one day at a time. A month NC, and I am finally beginning to like myself again and getting stronger every day.
Wow! I have been out of my marriage/ relationship that cause this syndrome in me for a long time and I know that I have not recovered from it yet. I see a pattern in my behavior as it relates to dating and it ain’t pretty.
I have to read this article repeatedly. The part that resonated with me was the paragraph where Natalie discusses the reasons she dated unavailable men was because she didn’t believe in herself and she believed an ‘available’ man would realize she was a f*ck up. The unavailable man would value and appreciate her because she boosted them to a higher level….
Man, I see that same pattern with any man I have dated or considered a relationship. But it was the man that I married and since divorced who I felt (and probably still do) owed me. Much to my dismay, I gave up everything for him. Never has it been more clear to me, how much I have punished myself for not being able to make the marriage work or even the post divorce crap work for our son.
Thank you Natalie. This was a great article. I knew that I was guilty of trying to change my now ex husband, but I didn’t realize the true intent of the behavior. He, as well a counselors chalked it up to a need to be controlling. And I believed them, that I was the one who was flawed…. Well, I am flawed, but not in the way I thought I was.
A,
Where is your responsibility, as you were the one in a relationship? I think it’s even more awful, as you were committed to another.
I think its time you review your own actions.
Can someone explain to me why unavailables blow hot especially when they think they’re going to lose you? Is that about not wanting to lose YOU truly or because they don’t want to lose a source of love, attention, etc.? It’s confusing to try and believe that someone doesn’t want you when they go to such great lengths to stop you from leaving or show obvious fear, anxiety when they sense you’re close to leaving. What’s going on with them psychologically? It makes no sense to me whatsoever!
Lisa, I think it’s a combination of all: not wanting to lose you, not wanting to lose the source of “love,” and never being sure what they really want. Ego also. I will never figure it out completely and I give up. That’s the only way to move on and let go.
Thank you for your response. I have to make peace with giving up also, but it’s so confusing when the actions never line up with the real intent! I guess the depths of their misery we will never know…and that is a good thing 🙂
Hello Lisa,
I you see my nickname is “Still Mr. U” and I can partially answer on your question. I also have to declare that I am not an extreme case of Mr. Unavailable ( I can say that, because I read a lot of stories here and can’t see myself in the most of them ). For sure I am not an AC.
I believe, that I was in the cycle “hot – cold” only once. I saw a potential and I didn’t want to fail again and to give up. I wanted to won against my anxiety. I behaved again hot and gave a chance to the relationship, but this was an epic fail. The problem was that I never invested to know the girl and everything was one huge future faking, so even giving a chance everything in the relationship was fake. It was odd! I think, that this was the epiphany relationship for the girl, for me it made think, that I didn’t behave in mature way and to realize, how with my actions I really can hurt the people.
In my case behaving hot and cold was about fear and seeing potential. Somehow I realized that I hurt people with this behavior and just stopped to engage if I hit once the cold phase. I give a real conversation, explain that I am not interested anymore and never again entering in the girl’s life.
I know some other Mr. Unavailables:
Mr 1 – He doesn’t respects women in general: He behaves hot and cold, because of his ego and to have stories to tell to his friends
Mr 2 – He has an affair and for him the situation is still like an affair even, that the girl has broken with her bf and she wants more from Mr 2. Well Mr. 2 still thinking that she is fine with a booty call
Mr 3 – He believe that the women need drama, otherwise if he behaves normal he will be boring and the women will replace him with somebody who behave hot and cold
In general behaving hot is attention seeking and may be fake hope, that I may work out this time. The problem with us Mr U is, that we missed significant information about the person on the receiving end ( we just didn’t invested mental energy to know the woman ) and it’s already too late, because the situation is too messed up.
Still Mr. U, thank you for sharing your thoughts about emotional unavailability. I had no idea and never thought of: “the problem was that I never invested to know the girl and everything was one huge future faking, so even giving a chance everything in the relationship was fake. It was odd! I think, that this was the epiphany relationship for the girl, for me it made think, that I didn’t behave in mature way and to realize, how with my actions I really can hurt the people.”
I am glad you understood what happened. It will help you going forward. And the woman you are with.
I learned my own lesson too. I was married to a man who was emotionally available and committed. I was not. I was much younger back then and felt like I had one foot out of the door for 8 years of the marriage. I hadn’t had enough “fun” before my marriage evidently, married too young at barely 20, and he was just boring and predictable and too routine. That’s what I thought back then. About 2-3 years after the divorce it started ringing the bell what a great guy he was. He seemed to still have an interest in me (we have a child so we see each other regularly). Then he started dating someone else ( has been married now for over 4 years), and with each year I was seeing more and more value in him and only now finally after this epiphany relationship of mine when I was burned to ashes, only now my eyes have opened and I see how much I had hurt my ex-husband. It took many years to figure that out through mistakes and pain and finally my own hard fall. To feel in his shoes and understand everything wrong that I did. I guess it’s karma. Or rather, as religious people would say these are spiritual laws. Not meaning there is any revenge or payback. What it simply means is that we each will learn our own lesson sooner or later. Everyone, if he/she is lucky, will have one’s chance. It is life turning and my hope and I already see it, it is all for the better.
Still Mr. U,
It is so true that alot of EUM spend so much time running hot and cold they get the chance getting to know the person. My ex-EUM was like this and never really knew me as a person because he spent so much time being immature and selfish. Then when I had enough all of sudden he was interested in getting to know me? For me it just wasn’t worth it anymore.
Hello Stephanie,
I think, that Natalie wrote some where something like “emotional laziness” or may be it was some of the readers. Well I think that it’s exactly this the EU people are lazy or scared to get to know the other person. It can be because of pattern, anti pattern, something in the childhood, disinterest and etc.
The most important is that the EU people (including me) don’t put enough effort the know the person at the other end and they are scared when somebody wan’t to know them, but they are not ready to step in.
Well apparently he wasn’t that scared because he continued dating another woman and eventually married her! Which is okay, because I was done with him by then. I always hoped that somehow the experience with me helped the EUM become a better person. Would I stake my life–No. But I say this because, it definately made me better in so many ways and you want to believe that people can evolve and learn. Oh well, just my optimism.
I believe the fear of true intimacy issues are not only for the other person but actually for themselves.
If the EU got too close to their own true feelings it would be more difficult for them to carry on with their behaviour so it is easier for them to live full time in a fantasy.
You cannot truely KNOW someone else until you KNOW yourself. Everything else is illusion.
Lisa define what you want in a relationship and how you want it to feel – and that includes reliability and all those so called boring subjects that you have previously rejected – then stick to it.
If he doesn’t measure up on any of them = show him the door.
Wondering why he’s being an EU won’t get you any closer to knowing why you are also being one to yourself. Get busy Lisa and good luck.
Oona I am not sure where you got the idea that I have “rejected boring subjects previously” or that I’m wondering “why someone is being an EU” – I was trying to get some insight on a particular aspect of EU behavior so I can understand it better. Your response is judgmental and condescending – you have no idea who I am or what my story is. Please do not discourage people on this site from asking questions – people heal through learning and a response like yours impedes that.
Thank you Still Mr. U, it’s nice to hear from the other side 🙂
Hi Lisa,
This is how it works. Unavailable men don’t love themselves so they need the attention and love from other people. They fear getting hurt and when in a relationship the anxiety kills them when it’s getting “too close” bc they have intimacy issues. Hence why they cheat and all that. As soon as you’re gone the anxiety goes away of the pressure to get close and they miss you because they are no longer anxious. When you reject them they blow hot because then they realize they really lost you and can’t control you anymore. I swear it’s like these men can sense and feel when you’re moving on and happy. This weekend I had the most fun since my ex and Is break up and met many men that were very attracted to me. He then found an excuse to contact me today. Go figure. But he was a shady one and entertained women behind my back so I told him I was aware of his actions and to please not contact me again that I don’t deserve disrespect. He then denying it all of course was calling me bc I wouldn’t respond after that. Little does he know this is for good this time 🙂
Thank you for your insight Eyes Wide Open!
Its been a yr and some since I got out of the relationship that never was. I got involved with someone going through a divorce, He displayed the usual signs of an EU ( Blew Hot and played nice, I was questioning what could have been the reason for the split but it was only a matter of time).Today I can say Im glad it happened for the simple fact that I have grown from this episode. I put me first and I am accepting that even if I never have a relationship or get married ( Gay/bi/Straight). I will be just fine this is not to say I have given up on love but I subscribe to a different kind of love “SELF-LOVE” I am kind to myself,tell myself the truth and I love me for me.Nat maybe you may never get to read this given the high number of comments and maybe you will but Thank You for this blog it really set a whole string of emotions that helped me to seek help for a life coach… to all others going thru or recovering from bad relationships remember the first and most important one is that which you have with yourself once you have a healthy relationship with yourself you are set !!!
Omg speaking of him he just showed up at my house bc I said I’m done for good and didn’t respond to any more of his texts or calls. I didn’t answer the door. This is what it makes these unavailable unstable men do.
Eyes Wide Open,
Your assessment of EUM is spot on! My ex-eum acted exactly this way! I think he thought I was playing when he realized I wasn’t calling him at all. He was getting no attention. I guess he was having issues with the woman he left me for! They also have selective memories! They seem to have forgotten about all the crappy things they’ve done and expect you to take them back no questions asked!
I agree!!!! I had just told my ex I don’t have room for disrespect in my life about his lies I only recently found out about that happened when we were in a relationship and an HOUR after texts me asking if he can come over for a movie and see me! Like are you nuts? I just said I’m done. To my rejection and no response he showed up at my door knocking for 5 minutes to “see me” and proceeded to text and call me 3 times in a row bc I did not answer. He proceeds to text me again the next day to say to say he’s sorry for texting me and won’t happen again. Firstly our last break up he said that 100 times and wouldn’t stop trying contacting me every weekend. Secondly, you didn’t just text me you showed up at my door you psycho! Way to make yourself feel less like a stalker lol
Grew up feeling like everything was always spiralling out of control; chaos and drama all around.
Got to my late teens and discovered the idea of ‘control’, and liked it. It seemed to introduce order into a world I didn’t understand. Unfortunately I applied it to everyone but myself. Ruined my physical and mental health trying to live it out.
In terms of Pygmalion and ‘renovation’, I remember the awful sinking feeling every time it turned out I didn’t look the way a man wanted me to look. I seemed always to attract men who like slender women with long brown hair and fair skin and brown eyes, and I am exactly the polar opposite to this in looks. Too weird.
I couldn’t be what they wanted, but it took me such a long time – and such a lot of dumb anger and resentment and hurt – that the solution was to get rid of the guys, and not myself. But I only realised this, once I’d gotten rid of the guys for other reasons.
Oh, thank you God for my Epiphany Relationship.
Have messed up two female friendships by playing psychologist too much, but at least I’m learning now that if someone throws you a ball, you don’t have to catch it …
I’ve read this latest post 3 times, and took notes! This post, combined with the linked post about “boosting others”, was a one-two knockout punch for me. I have been “boosting” all my life….hoping that just once someone would be MY cheerleader in return.
I used to say to myself about ACMM that I graded him on a curve.
Took notes from a lot of Sofia’s comments too. One of your truths you wrote, Sofia:
“This article is important. To those who already are past this experience. Hopefully those who are close to finish their experience. Maybe to those in the middle. Maybe not to those in the early stages.”
I am well in the middle of my recovery and this post is just so….incisively accurate. It is like Intermediate Level Self-Analysis.
At my job, I’ve always said that “you don’t learn anything until something goes wrong.” I agree with you Sofia. That is a life truth too – these painful emotional experiences can facilitate tremendous future growth, if we heed the lessons.
Oh, Sofia, your posts have so much truth in them. I too wanted to prove that I can be loved. I wanted to be validated. I set those self-fulfilling prophesies in motion – “just sex”….no such thing for me really..if I want to be true to what I really want.
I love this line – No EU turns available and validates you for the value you did not receive in the past.
And,
“Now that I am stepping away from that behavior, I don’t miss the anxiety, emptiness, fear, panic, doubt, humiliation”. Oh so true!
I went to a masquerade ball Saturday, lots of people my age there. The single EUM told me about it, but we were not there together. I mingled, was very social, and in my last hour there met a man who delivered interesting conversation. I was happy for the mental stimulation and eager to have a movie date, and I did the phone number exchange where we call each other right there…but then I said to myself “ASK QUESTIONS”. I love BR for making me into a person with boundaries. I asked was he married? – no – living with someone? –no – girlfriend? –“I have some friends, we call each other from time to time to get together”. My spidey senses said he has a FWB harem, and I wonder if they know that he does not consider any of them his girlfriend. We talk a little more, then he blows me off a bit –saying he wanted to get back to his friends. I say “Oh, did not mean to bore you. I’ll head on back to my table. Take it easy, bye.” So after the party, I am home – it is 3:04 AM – I get a text from new guy saying “hope you got home safely”. Pre-BR, I may have responded, maybe even been excited by it. But not any more. That is classic managing down behavior. Let’s see if you can call me at 3:04 PM, buddy. Not interested in anything but a movie date.
Elgie R,
Good for you! The life lesson you learn don’t mean anything if you don’t apply them. You probably got him pegged right. That’s why he dodged out! He wasn’t expecting you to ask questions! Just thought you were going to blow smoke up his but! Side note – I’m not even sure why he even told you he had “friends”? If they are not people serious then what is the point. This is not to say he is a bum! I would feel him out and see where it goes and if you still get that uneasy feeling I would flush!
elgie,
I wouldn’t even go to a movie with him, it could lead to another and give him time to charm you until you forget what you learned from the get go, and before you know it, you might become part of his harem. even if you don’t why waste your energy on someone you know isn’t right, you are just telling yourself that’s what you deserve and you already know you deserve more.
I’m in a similar situation with a couple guys at my church that are interested. One hardly gave me the time of day until I told him I had been interested in him a year ago. Now, he wants my attention, but now I don;t want his, for one I just got out of a 5 week train wreck with a guy and if he wasn’t interested in all that time, why now. I feel our connection, on some level as very strong, however, verbally the connection is not smooth, filled with trepidation and I’ve learned a few things about him, as an example, we played a team game and he kept giving my team less points which I didn’t like, but I saw it as his way of flirting. If he wanted to flirt, he should have given my team more points, not less, it felt punishing. He admitted he was doing it becausue I was on the team. Don’t little boys do that when they like a girl, like pull her hair. that’s what I saw that as.
Another fellow I went on a few dates, then after a business trip, I came back and he was parading another woman around. He recently told me he thought I told him to get lost, not true, would never use those words. Now, he’s interested again and I’m going…..uuugh….so I know if I even want to go on any dates with these guys. It’s hard to stay strong..and alone, but maybe we need to do it.
Elgie R., I like your attitude. Exactly. Back then I would have been so excited! I would have replied to him immediately! Now, my first thought is, “Wait a second. Texting at 3 a.m. is disrespectful. It can wait till 3 p.m. next day.”
I have issues now with anyone texting that late even if the event ended late. Still it can wait till next morning/afternoon.
Eyes,
Good for you! He’s a waste of time!
I stayed in a relationship because ultimately I didn’t believe in me or that I was worth more than I got. I would say that right from the beginning I did recognize that I wasn’t being treated in a thoughtful and respectful way because I got upset at his thoughtlessness but I so wanted to believe his statements that he was trying so hard and that his intentions were so good even though he never once took responsibility for the emotional disengagement bordering on cruelty that went on. And because he couldn’t make decisions he under-functioned leaving me to over function in the business and family. Well, you know the story. Although I finally left and moved to another city we are finishing up work contracts until March and so I have communication with him now and then. I am doing well in some ways in an an entirely new life but in other ways I still feel sad, stuck and angry at myself that he still affects me. There isn’t ONE email I get from him that doesn’t upset me in one way or another and this upset stays with me…okay for LESS time but it still rattles me. He still constantly feels he has the “right” to share personal details of his life as if we are just jolly good friends even though I never do this in return and NEVER respond. He is actually COMPLETELY unaware of how he affected me and continues to do so. I know that …so why can’t I get past that? I still know that on the outside he is seen as a really nice guy who worked on the premise that it was fine to disappoint me but that he would go into overdrive not to disappoint others. It bothers me that apart from a few friends nobody is a witness to my story. I am upset with myself that these themes in my life aren’t going away even though I am so much better in so many ways, despite also having to recover from a serious road accident in January. I was in this marriage for a long time and despite my very best efforts I wonder if I will ever really recover this buoyant self I feel that is inside me.
I was in this marriage for a long time and despite my very best efforts I wonder if I will ever really recover this buoyant self I feel that is inside me.
Yes, you will. Espresso, you have been happy before, and you will be happy again, once you clean out the lumber room.
He is actually COMPLETELY unaware of how he affected me and continues to do so.
Don’t you believe it. He knows damn well, and he’s playing games. Don’t be quite so forgiving – you need to protect yourself here, and you owe it to your buoyant self to protect her until she can re-emerge. But you’re doing the right thing by just blocking him; keep it up. It will work eventually – he will find another harem member and start pouring on the charm there, and you will finally be free. If you really want to be, that is.
I had the same problem – I vaguely remembered a confident, buoyant, optimistic Ethelreda, but she seemed to have turned into someone else.
And that’s precisely what she had done, of course – turned into, or tried to turn into, this EUM’s Ms Right. A very poor fit!
When I finally made good my escape – and made it permanent, and started to do the mental exercise ‘You will be single for the rest of your life. NOW – how are you going to live that life?’ – the buoyant, lively self almost immediately popped up like a cork from the bottom of the ocean.
I was so surprised to meet myself again, but it was a pleasant surprise – I’d gotten so used to being miserable! I immediately got my hair cut, because he was always after me to grow my hair, and I usually rock a pixie. And there, in the hairdresser’s chair, I saw my real self re-emerge.
Hoorah.
Espresso,
You’re the only one who is keeping you stuck. You can continue to hold on to your anger, or make an active choice to fully move on with your life. You’re only hurting yourself.
I had a friend, who’s mother held on to anger until her final days. The choice to hold on to this anger towards her ex husband, is what probably caused an early death. You can choose to ALLOW this man to irritate you for DAYS, or you can choose to let it go. This has been going on for far too long.
Please seek some counseling to deal with your anger and attachment to this guy.
Hi Espresso,
Thank you for sharing your story. So much of it resonates with me, as I am right now in the process of divorcing my abusive husband of 15 years — a severe manchild I allowed to strip-mine me down to practically nothing — but I stayed because of a musical project/business partnership we have been doing together that entire time. There were some other complications that deterred me from leaving (cost, logistics, immigration/legal issues, plus the stupid idea that “if we only had this…did that…lived there…then the problems would go away!”), but suffice it to say that this whole relationship never should have dragged on for as long as it has. It was the same thing: he is Mr. Charming around everyone else, so there are very few people who have any idea of what an absolute nightmare he is to have to deal with day in and day out! Everyone thinks *I* am crazy for being the miserable, angry, resentful, exhausted wreck that I am now.
You mentioned your ongoing relationship due to the business. I have been hoping that we can continue our artistic collaboration after ending the intimate relationship but worry whether that might keep both of us in EU status for new partners. Additionally, he has been all sweetness and light since his return earlier this month from working a seasonal job back in his own country (Japan) for five months, so I am having trouble “staying the course” with the impending divorce. I know I must see it through though.
While he was gone I got brief glimpses of what my life could be like if I were free to live it the way that I want instead of stuck in the disastrously miscast role of “beleaguered single parent with a spoiled manchild”, and I am excited at having that chance again and getting to know whoever I am now without the toxic marriage, but even so, there is still that nagging voice in my head telling me that I am just a jaded, busted-down, failed old bag now, so why end up old and alone?
Oh, and that too: him reverting to functioning mentally and emotionally at the level of a spoiled toddler when we moved to California, so I ended up shouldering the burden of single-handedly pulling down practically 100% of our annual household GDP doing my day job AND his job when he actually did work (sporadic background acting and an occasional gig when we moved to L.A.) and doing everything to make anything happen with our musical project (he composed the music and rehearsed it with me, but I did everything else) and doing every damn thing to make everyone in the whole house’s life work while he just sat there helping himself to the free ride….
Great timing! I am in the middle of this right now.
Early on when I met the BF I was freshly out of another relationship and he was trying to make me a fixer upper.
I have recently gone to him realizing he’s EU (he’s consistent with contact but won’t say sorry, won’t talk about the future in general, can’t even figure out what to eat for dinner). I tried to break up with him twice now. I don’t want to continue to be with someone who is EU who can’y even tell me I am the best thing in their life, they WANT me in their life years from now (I just hear I am plan A), someone who can act as a partner, etc.
I don’t go into this WANTING to chance him as these things are pretty deep rooted I believe. He has never been with anyone longer than 2 years (he’s 50s) and only managed to live with his x-gf for 6 months (this was 10 years before me).
So I told him this doesn’t work for me. He came back wanting to make it work for me. I gave it a week and there was no change so I said it again the next week. This doesn’t work for me so it’s best to move on. He came back asking me to give him until the end of the year (about 2 months) to get his act together. The next day I finally heard him tell me he loves me but he still can’t in English (which is both our first languages – we happen to also speak a common second language but rarely speak to each other in it anymore).
I have mentally been in and out since these talks because I really wonder if he really can change to my standards in a reasonable amount of time. I’m not waiting years for him to get his act together. I mean what really can be accomplished in a few months? I want to give him a chance due to the history and some values we share but I feel like he’s asking me to bet on potential.
Anon,
How long have you been together? If you were just fresh out of another relationship when you started seeing him then maybe it’s time to take a step back, stop dating and work out what it is that you truly want for yourself and then go from there.
It’s been 4 1/2 years now… So the old relationship definitely isn’t fresh still and I have recovered from it over time. The current one has a lot of fits and starts, a period I broke it off to date others who gave even less than this guy so I never got serious with anyone else really, etc.
This guy says he’s been acting this way because my body language and tone told him it’s my way or the highway type of attitude. I do that with certain things we don’t see eye to eye on like food (I avoid processed stuff and he likes processed food). The thing is even if I catch his hand in the cookie jar, he isn’t the type to admit it. So I’m wondering if I gave him a fair chance or if this is just tactic to mess with my mind and for him to say he’s ‘changing’ and smooth things over while nothing really changes.
As-is I have already decided this doesn’t work for me. I feel so much like a single parent still with a roommate. Not someone with a partner. He had distanced himself so much that my child didn’t want anything to do with him either. He has worked on spending more time with him and they are bonding now. He is saying nice things to me now but not in our main language because it’s too scared to him to take that risk. These are the flags that bother me.
Anon,
Why are you with someone you need to change? It doesn’t work.
This is who he. Expecting someone to change, is not fair to you or them. Either accept the situation, or get out already!
I Can Change Him/Her’ syndrome..
Ahh yes and let’s ADD in the fellow that is just ALL too there that NEEDS you so much to do just that for him shall we, LOL!
You know the “Nice” guy that can DO no wrong he’s so nice, Nice enough to have you as the option, Get married to someone else he barely knows, and then Oh, after all your help and advice one month away from his lovely bride becasue they cannot be in the same country?.. “well by golly he cannot masturbate and needs sex, beer and food.”
Not even going to repeat all the F*cking @sshole I must have said on that one but really fed up to hear with clowns that also need me as a pal and really expected some, “Oh yes dear do cheat on your wife, NO sex for a month?? oh that must be a nightmare for you oh yes terrible to be without it for you but NOT so terrible for anyone else?
Oh yes sure It’s easy for women to live without sex you know, NO torture for US in that way after 8 years without it i never suffered, ONLY for you males.. so yes cheat on your new wife, sex is that important to you so do it.
WTF does any guy expect you to say??!!! I cannot, I mean I cannot stand that @sshole anymore and pray now he stays the f*ck away from me!!!!!
Nobody CAN really be THAT stupid?? they just cannot.
Yes, yes and yes they can be that stupid..my ex AC asked me to be his bit on the side afte we broke up and he was with somebody else because apparently the sex side of things wasn’t that hot!! Ha I’m afraid that I had to decline his kind offer but it does make you wonder what the hell you saw in them in the first place!
I found this online and it was written by a MAN it is so 100% the truth, and happy it WAS written by a man just to see clarification some actually DO have their heads on right.
————–
Mentally mature men have no intention of cheating on a woman in a relationship. His wisdom will not allow him to commit to a woman if he is legitimately unready to give all his attention to just one woman.
Cheating is for insecure cowards. Cheating is not about sex. If it were, these cheaters would just remain single to sleep with as many as they wanted, then it would not be cheating. Cheating is about control. Manipulation. Filling insecurity.
Cheating is to hold a loyal person’s heart hostage, while one behaves single. They know they could just end it with them at any time to sleep with someone else, but they WANT to stay committed, make their partner suffer, to gain power from their pain.
The one you’re so in love with does NOT always want commitment. Some only want to be with you for a short time, while building their self confidence up and tearing their insecurities down by gaining power at the expense of pain their disloyalty causes you. They can’t wait to drop you & “upgrade”.
But a coward with this frame of mind, will continue to look, yet never be able to find satisfaction for their lack of self confidence.
A mentally mature man gains confidence from remaining faithful. His loyalty impresses himself. He loves nothing more than turning down all the women who want his attention, just so he can give all his attention to that ONE woman who does the same & gives him all of hers.
Another thing… there have been a few incidents where I would have thought a partner would at least ask questions. Like did you mean to leave this food out? Do you need help since you are sick? He keeps trying to turn it back on me because I like to be independent and he doesn’t think I want help. But he won’t even ask or check. This happened last week when I was sick with mild food poisoning. It happened last night as I left my lunch I was preparing for today out on the counter all night and he even mentioned he saw it there and wondered why it was there 3 times. I mean asking is not too much to do as a partner! I wonder a lot what I am waiting for?
Anon, don’t wait for him. So many signs and actions remind me my ex. I kept waiting and hoping. It’s creepy how similar they are. A man who wants to be with you, will be with you. Now. Don’t waste your time.
Anon,
I’m sorry, but you keep making so many excuses for this guy. He keeps showing you with action, he doesn’t care. Words mean nothing!
What are you sticking around for?
I meant inaction.
Please follow the advice you give others. He gives you crumbs.
It’s been exactly two months since my BF of two years broke it off with me. Just like that. I had no idea it was coming. As much as this is going to sound really effed up, I’m a bit jealous of the women on here who hear from their exes. Mine has not reached out to me once. I sent him a couple of links to relationship and emotional intimacy articles the day after we broke up and I got nothing. I did stop over there a few weeks ago and tried to get some closure (answers as to why he’s done this) and found he said the same things…he’s no longer in love with me. I don’t believe that as we were happy and really close, which makes me believe that when we get to a milestone of some sort and closer in the relationship, he pulls away. It’s happened before. However, he denies it. He has just thrown me away as if I never existed and it is so very painful. Very. I keep asking myself how he could do this. I sent him an email last week with photos of him and his kids because I was going to delete them and thought he may want them. He wrote back “thank you very much. That was very considerate of you.” I didn’t respond. To be quite honest, it really pissed me off. I felt so angered because he could respond to that email and not the others two I sent immediately after our break. Why did I get so angered by it? I felt like he was being insensitive; that he was making himself look good by saying “thanks”; that he didn’t have the “consideration” and common courtesy to respond to my other emails when he knew how hurt I was; and that it was and still is all about HIM. ugh!!!!!! So, why am I a tad bit jealous of the women who receive crumbs? I don’t know.
Don’t be envious of crumbs.
Crumbs stop you moving on.
Crumbs keep you hanging is he in or is he out ?
Crumbs keep you hoping when really there hope.
As hard as it to hear I think your ex boyfriend has done you a favour.
He ended it maybe not how you would have liked him to end with a big explanation that gives you closure. (closure is overrated by the way)
He has left you alone to grieve and move on.
It really wouldn’t be fair of him to keep dropping in and out of your life when he has broken up with you and trust me there is nothing to be jealous of.
You have to grieve the end of your relationship and see that because someone broke up with doesn’t mean you are defective in some way.
Take care of you and be nice to yourself.
oops crumbs keep you hoping when really there is no hope.
Thank you, Anon. I know that I deserve better. I just need to align my heart with my head!
Elisabeth, you are reeling from this breakup. Do you have any of these thoughts:
How DARE he not be in love with me?
How DARE he not speak to me anymore?
How could he just turn off like that?
I deserve an explanation!
You don’t want things to be over and you refuse to accept that it IS over. When you sent the relationship articles to the ex, you hoped for a Eureka moment to occur in his head and he’d come running back to you saying “I was wrong, I DO love you!”
In Natalie’s “boosting” article, she stated how NO ONE wants to be “directed” in a relationship, you know, “if you’d only do this/ say this/ be this, we’d be perfect together!”….so that is just to say that sending the articles did nothing to improve the chances that this relationship would be revived.
Let him go, Elisabeth. He does not want to be in this relationship. He may have felt that he wanted out for quite some time and just hid it from you. Men are coward’s about breaking up, and I understand why. Women are harsh judges over breakups – no matter what the man does, we almost always think they should have done it some other way.
Let him go, and then grieve, Elsabeth. It is hard to let go of someone we wanted to love us back. You have a lot of self-soothing ahead.
He is NOT YOUR LAST CHANCE. Remember that.
Elizabeth,
You are lucky he hasn’t.
However, two months is not enough time for some guys.
Very likely he will contact you when you feel like you are moving on, even partially.
I know everyone says that but that’s what happened to me. Exactly twice he contacted when I said to myself, “finally? am I am moving on? yayy!” Goes the text and me replying even if several days later with a short meaningless text, still , step back and grieve ALL OVER AGAIN.
You don’t need it, trust me.
But I know the feeling. I had it too. It’s wanting to know that he thinks of and misses you. That you mean something. That your relationship means something.
I think that his silence might mean a good thing. He respects you. ACs are the ones who call and text like crazy after the breakup. EUs – might stay way for a long time or maybe for good because they found someone else and/or running away from their hurt feelings (if there were any) and shutting any of their confusion down. In their minds we are their past. Done is done. So goes the silence.
I realise now that so many of the men I fell for, I fell for because they were ‘projects’.
I was bored, lonely, and didn’t have a life, and thought that all that gap could be filled with one single solitary human project.
So I found that channelling that into real projects – with inanimate objects! – has been really productive, fulfilling and joy-making. I do real-life renovating instead now, and it’s great.
And I am learning to try to leave human beings just they way they are, unless they ask for help …
Hi Ethelreda, that made me laugh — thanks! This was my “epiphany article” that showed me the error of my ways, and I am going to do the same as you: from now on, limit my renovating and creating to my art projects and house projects and garden projects and rescue cats — NOT humans!
…and I JUST CAN’T WAIT to finally be free to spend the money I work my ass off earning to take care of MY needs, starting with getting my hair done and chopping off this miserable Medusa-mess I haven’t been able to afford to maintain for years!
Rescue cats are the BEST. We have one, and he’s been a life-changer for me as well.
Rescuing cats — good. Rescuing humans — not good. Unless they are drowning or in a burning car or something.
Okay, I did a stupid thing tonight. I texted him. Again, I broke NC. I asked him if he would like to get together for a drink, sometime soon. REALLY!??! He responded and said, “Elisabeth, that’s just not a good idea.” I told myself that if he responded, no matter what, I wouldn’t get emotional. Well, I cried for an hour. WTH! I responded with “Why?” Then, immediately followed up with “Okay. I’m done. I tried.” I got nothing after that.
Elgie – you are right. I was looking for him to have that “eureka” moment and say “I’m sorry. I was wrong. Yada, Yada, Yada.” Maybe because we’ve been down this road before and in the past, he has written about what he felt and how he DOES love me, etc etc etc. BUT this time around, he’s not doing that. And yes, I’m reeling. I don’t know what went wrong. I truly don’t. And, he says he doesn’t know either. I find that hard to believe though.
I know Nat says that anyone has the right to end a relationship whenever, and I agree. However, it is just so nasty on his part to make me feel as if I’ve been throw out with yesterday’s trash. He’s so cold.
AND I’m so mad at myself for a lot of things: putting up with his mood swings from day to day; not getting out myself, sooner; falling so deeply on love; missing him; missing our talks; believing in him; wanting validation; practically asking for crumbs; but most of all, feeling like he’s THE ONE and being soooo scared of letting go. I just want the feelings related to him to go away. And BTW, I’m too old for this crap! lol. (I’m 47…which “may” be another reason I am so afraid of letting go). I’m just so fearful of accepting the finality of it all.
Elizabeth,
No matter what he says its not going to change they way YOU feel! For whatever reason he wanted out and you have no choice but to accept it. I know its hurts! I been there on my hands and knees crying because I couldn’t understand why he threw me away like trash. Fortunately, I knew why he left because he was seeing somebody else.
This is why you need to go no contact because you need to heal! At least he has the decency to leave you alone! You may see it as him ignoring you, but he is trying to distance himself so he can move on. Many times it has nothing to do with the person rejection, but more to do with how we feel about ourselves. We start to believe that there must have been something wrong with me because he left. This is a mistake! Just because someone doesn’t want to be with you doesn’t mean that there is something wrong with you. Everybody you date can’t be the one! People come into our lives for many reasons and you need to figure out what lesson is to be learned from this experience and move on.
It’s natural to feel hurt you are human! Just because a person stops caring for you doesn’t mean you stop caring for them; however, you can’t continue to stay this way. It’s okay to be mad and angry at him for leaving, but at some point you have to accept it and move on so you can be at peace! Don’t beat yourself up for calling. Just brush yourself off and begin no contact and take it one day at a time. HUGS!!
However, it is just so nasty on his part to make me feel as if I’ve been throw out with yesterday’s trash.
Eleanor Roosevelt said that no one makes you feel bad without your permission. That’s the most angry-making part, I think.
Oh Elizabeth, don’t be too hard on yourself. You just learned that if you touch the hot stove, you get burned. This is how we learn. Sometimes it takes a long time.
And as someone who’s 45 and has had plenty of drama of her own in the last five years, I empathise with the ‘I’m too old’ feeling. It IS hard to let go when you think you’re in the Last Chance Saloon. But here’s some amazing facts:
1) You’re not too old. You can make a good relationship in your 80s if you want to. People do.
2) Once you’ve spent some time healing, you might get right back on the horse, but do it right this time. Or, you may find the midlife brain-change kicks in, and suddenly you find your life no longer has to revolve around men/romance, and you really start living.
Louann Brizendine’s book The Female Brain was a real eye opener for me. It prepared me for the switch-sideways movement, when I thought I’d lost all my maternal instinct because I no longer craved babies.
Thanks, Ethel. You’re (and Eleanor) absolutely right when you say that no one can make you feel bad without your permission. And I am doing this to myself. I keep reaching for that hot stove knowing very well that I will more than likely get burned. The buck has to stop somewhere and I need to put my big girl panties on and move on. I have refused to see the relationship for what it REALLY was. He was always selfish and always wanted things on his terms. This is not what I want in a relationship. I need to really look at/remember (and to keep my rose tinted glasses off) his issues and his self-absorbed ways and tell myself that he has done me a favor by truly showing me who he really is…
“Tossed aside like an old pair of shoes” – I remember my Mother using that term when I was crying on the phone to her over my only MAJOR heartbreak.
Yeah it hurts…took me 18 months to heal – and that was with no contact from him at all. He dumped me cold. And he was a man who treated me very nicely…but we were not meant to be, for various reasons.
The lesson I learned from that heartbreak is I CAN heal. I am not afraid of being emotionally hurt in the future, not over a broken romance anyway, because I know that time is a healer.
Elisabeth, you have got to find some other things to do with your time other than wallow in the pain of what will never be with your ex. A lot of times we use romance drama to avoid emptiness in our own lives… it gives our minds something to do.
“Invest in you and you will want very different partners.” I can attest to this; it is very true.
I uprooted and changed my life since the ex. I often do an inventory of my three significant exes and realized two of them physically and otherwise repulse me. They had serious hygiene and self-care issues. But it’s more than that–neither of them acted with an ounce of integrity. I mean these men were the sludge of society. I guess a part of me realized there was a possibility they didn’t have to be–just as maybe I didn’t have to be doing the self-defeating things I was. Except I didn’t start with myself. I tried to change for them in a hope that they would change for me because to focus so much on me for me was to foreign and scary. But the true terror was in choosing and staying with these men.
When I think of my exes lately, I become nauseated and near get quite physically ill in other ways. I still find myself thinking of my most recent ex in unrealistic lights, so I have put a halt on dating. And that is fine. As long as I am working on myself and not settling, I am fine. I will be fine.