In this excerpt from the new edition of Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, I explain the very tricky territory of fixing, healing and helping and how your need to be needed and trying to be the solution to problems that aren’t yours to fix, backfire and leave you feeling anything but loved.
Right now there are millions of women dating and in relationships with men that they 1) weren’t that interested in to begin with but thought they could change them, 2) were interested but had to turn a blind eye to some stuff and thought they could change them, and 3) were mostly interested in the purpose of fixing/healing/helping them. What this tells you straight off the bat is that many women end up in unsatisfactory relationships because they knowingly choose partners they deem as having ‘faults’ or ‘issues’. They believe that if they ‘give’ and ‘love’ that this will give them the power to change their inadequate partners and be rewarded with their love.
Unfortunately, believing that you have superhuman powers is what has you repeatedly returning to the same relationship crime scene, going out with the same guy in a different package, and taking on fixer-upper projects that leave you hungry and hurt. I’m a big fan of TV shows like Property Ladder, Grand Designs, and Location, Location, Location, which deliver an important message that you should remember throughout this chapter and the rest of this book: it’s all fruitless unless you get Return On Investment (ROI). You cannot take any man with any problems and treat him like a blank canvas and magic up the relationship you want, because it’s like trying to turn a pig’s ear into a silk purse – a very bad bet.
What’s the difference between the woman that ditches men because they don’t meet her stringent criteria and the woman that instead of ditching, focuses on fixing and healing? A slippery slope.
When you choose men that you believe need fixing and a makeover, you’re a Renovator. Relationships where you secretly or even openly put yourself on a pedestal are your preference because underneath your critical eye and controlling ways, lurks low self-esteem. You figure that he’s not right for now, but that if you give and fix, that you’ll be rewarded with a committed relationship. Disillusioned with dating and scared to put yourself out there with the type of men you’d prefer, you think you’re playing it safe and then Mr Unavailable turns the tables on you.
With the rehab route, you’re a fixing/healing/helping Florence Nightingale that needs to feel needed. His problems give you a purpose, and you believe that if you love enough, even ‘major issues’ can be overcome, for you. You make yourself the solution to problems that aren’t yours to fix and that require more than love and a woman to resolve. You’re often righting the wrongs of the past as a parent/caregiver tends to be very similar to your partners, and with your low self-esteem, you think a man with problems will be grateful for your love and reciprocate. Having no idea how to meet your own needs, you become frustrated at being deprioritised and your own problems go unaddressed as you’re always distracted. You want to make everything better, but you’re actually making things worse.
Renovators can pretty much date any Mr Unavailable or even a decent, available guy and try to fix and make him over, but you tend to be with Opportunists, guys who get involved because you serve the purpose of being useful. On the take, they have little or no regard for your feelings, and because of your renovating ways, they see it as their right to exploit the situation. Florences end up with Woundeds, men with excess baggage in the form of emotional and behavioural problems; addictions such as sex, gambling, alcoholism and drugs; and in some instances they may even be abusive. Whatever their problems are, they completely affect their ability to be in a relationship.
Some people run in the opposite direction from relationships where it’s apparent that the person isn’t what they want or that they have major issues that make a relationship a no-go area, but not you. You either seem to think you can bulldoze your changes on any man or you refuse to see problems for what they are. You don’t see a man that you don’t really fancy, respect, value, or accept, and you don’t see a man with more baggage than all five terminals at Heathrow. You see opportunities.
You may not be conscious of it, but there’s a Bingo Moment when you first become involved with a guy where you see, hear, or perceive something that causes you to ‘click’ into place and feel that you have a purpose and opportunity to be needed. You have your eye on the prize and the reward. The idea is that you invest yourself into a relationship no matter how lacking or dangerous, and in knowing that he’s not actually the Catch of the Year, much less of the century, you expect that he’ll almost bask in the glow of a woman like you and it’ll be like “Wow, a woman like her wants me to better myself or is willing to be with me in spite of my humongous luggage. I will love and worship her!” You’re trying to live out a very f*cked up princess and the frog tale.
The reality is altogether different. There’s no prince hidden in your fixer-upper/pet project and Mr Unavailable never has the same agenda as you and does things on his terms. While Opportunists and Woundeds may initially be flattered by your interest and ‘love’ and even appear to make some changes, eventually they do rebel, they do blow hot and cold, and the bait and switch takes place where suddenly a relationship that you felt in control of, is very much out of your control. This will boggle you. You’ll wonder how even this man with all the changes he ‘needs’ or glaring problems can’t love you and you’ll also wonder how he’s running rings around you.
These relationships go one of three ways: he moves on and someone else appears to reap the rewards of your effort, he stays but refuses to change so you end up living in Misery City, or he leaves and remains the same anyway. What I can assure you of is that this relationship is doomed regardless because this isn’t love; it’s control and as you’ve already discovered, messing with Mr Unavailables is one big painful adventure in attempting to control the uncontrollable.
Your thoughts? Download this exclusive excerpt which also includes a list of typical characteristics of Renovators and Florences.
The new edition of Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girl is now available to buy both in print and in digital formats plus check out my ebooks the No Contact Rule and and more in my bookshop.
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I’ve been both a Renovator and Florence and that leads me to….
Knowing the difference between a healthy man with acceptable behaviors and an unhealthy man with unacceptable behaviors. I sure have made mountains out of molehills and not made a big deal out of something serious. This is coming from the land of no boundaries then trying to figure out what my boundaries are and when/if I am going too far or not far enough. I know if he’s addicted to drugs/alcohol it’s a NO from the start or if he’s married, etc.
I have been out of a serious relationship for over a year now and no prospects in sight. I’d like to be with someone again and I’m both scared and wondering where the heck I’ll find someone if not some dating website. With my history of picking the wrong dudes, how will I know if I pick the right one? According to all that law of attraction and vibration, it is apparently in my “vibration” to attract real EUMs. Assclowns. The like. I don’t want to be a fixer upper again or have the elusive man happen again either.
Colororange, I’d use the post on code amber and red behaviours to help distinguish https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/understanding-code-red-and-code-amber-behaviour-in-dating-and-relationships/ plus using previous relationships as guidance, you now know what doesn’t work for you. Also try https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/understanding-the-levels-of-boundaries-and-discomfort-working-your-way-from-low-level-to-dangerous/ and https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/overcoming-your-fear-of-having-standards-in-your-relationships/ and https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/assessing-the-threat-level-working-out-whether-your-fears-are-genuine-or-misplaced/ as a starter. Oh and also try https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/whats-your-relationship-deal-breaker/ and https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/more-on-deal-breakers-knowing-what-will-break-your-relationship-deal-even-when-youre-crazy-about-them/
Wow. Every time I think I have myself figured out, you give me something new to ponder!
“Disillusioned with dating and scared to put yourself out there with the type of men you’d prefer…”
Yep. That’s me. And all this time I was telling myself, “You’re being too picky, if you meet the ‘right’ person, all those faults will be acceptable.” Wrong, wrong, wrong! I think of myself as a person with good self-esteem, confidence and competence, right up until the moment I see the guy I really want to meet, and that little voice inside says, “out of your league, sister.”
Sigh. I wish I could silence her.
You can silence her T – that voice is a part of you. Talk back to it, counteract by speaking positively about yourself. Don’t let the little voice have the wheel.
I knowingly decided to be in each of my disastrous relationships (my daughter’s dad is not the worst of them either.)
Is it any wonder I am spending so much time being abstinent? Nope. I need to FIX me this time, instead of trying to rescue all those wandering ‘lost’ dogs. Until I feel like I could attract and be with an emotionally healthy man, by being an emotionally healthy woman myself, I will opt to be alone. I’ve tried dating but when my gut tells me something doesn’t feel right, I listen now.
And I learned my traits. My mother is the ultimate enabler, still is. I used to feel sorry for her, but she remains in misery, that is her choice, she can’t seem to be alone. Now I don’t try to help her, merely love her as my mother, and tell her I am here for her – if she ever wants to change things.
PS Thanks for your email today.
“Until I feel like I could attract and be with an emotionally healthy man, by being an emotionally healthy woman myself, I will opt to be alone.” – Well said Barbara as you’re using your own self-esteem as guide where you currently recognise that you need to work on it but you also know that when it does improve that it will also signal that you’re ready to date. I think many of our mother’s are from a generation and time where men are the centre of the universe and being alone is a fate worse than death itself. I think sometimes it can appear to seem easier to remain in misery because you think you can blame it on all the other factors and be like “I’ve been a great woman that’s stood by my [broken] man.” Unfortunately your mother will realise all too late they’re not giving out sainthood’s for her efforts or even brownie points.
Spoke to me on so many levels! I swear, I put in so much time and effort into my last relationship, all for nothing. I knew in my head (and my heart) that I was not getting my needs met. I wanted (and waited) for so much from him, and it never came to be. I finally left the relationship for good. I could no longer wait on my needs being met.
I have been pondering over some thing, and I hope maybe you can shed some light for me.
My relationship with my ex was mostly based on great chemistry. Although I convinced myself there was more to it than that, there wasn’t. I was never truly myself around him. I was not able to tell him my feelings, thoughts, fears, unless I knew it wouldn’t “rock the boat”.
I have recently met a very nice man. I wasn’t looking to, it just happened. He is so sweet, thoughtful, easy to talk to, laugh with, non stop conversations/communication. It’s really nice to feel like I can be myself. I find him very handsome (although not my “typical” type in appearance). I am not feeling that “strong chemistry” that typically draws me into a relationship. This is different. There is common values, goals, and dreams that we share. We are very much the same in our out look on life and what we are looking for. I really ENJOY his company, when I look in his eyes, I know he is telling the truth. When I look into his eyes, I feel something that I have not experienced before, hard to explain, except to say a peaceful, comfortable feeling. His actions back up his words (not like my ex). I really do like him a lot.
I am wondering if maybe I have always based my relationships on “that feeling”, that I don’t have with this man, but I have a comfort level and a peace I don’t recall with my ex. I feel so comfortable just in his arms (I don’t even care if we have sex or not). My ex was all about that chemistry high, that once we left the bedroom, I felt almost invisible – unless I was cooking him a meal or cleaning up. With this man, the sex is good, but not mind blowing.
Our relationship is still pretty new. I can say it is not based on sex at all. Is this a possible more healthy relationship possibility? Or am I fooling myself without the chemistry that I was use to? I am enjoying having a man who is not just wanting to be in the bedroom, and when we are is very happy just to cuddle with me all night long.
“There is common values, goals, and dreams that we share. We are very much the same in our out look on life and what we are looking for. I really ENJOY his company, when I look in his eyes, I know he is telling the truth. When I look into his eyes, I feel something that I have not experienced before, hard to explain, except to say a peaceful, comfortable feeling. His actions back up his words (not like my ex). I really do like him a lot.”
Soul Seeking, you are not fooling yourself at all, this is what a very healthy, happy relationship is made of 🙂 Don’t worry if you’re not feeling that “chemistry” – a lot of that is based on fear, drama and whatever the hell else EUMs/ACs bring (or don’t bring, I should say) to the table. It sounds like you are in a great place within yourself and involved with a great guy – enjoy it!
I agree with Natasha, the absence of that excitement or chemistry is really absence of fear. That is a good thing! Unless you’re really not into him, enjoy it to the fullest. Time will show who he really is. Don’t sabotage it because he’s not sending you up and down and all around on a balls to the wall roller coaster ride.
Very wise words Natasha!
Hi Soul Seeking, I would read https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/im-off-mr-unavailables-and-assclowns-where-will-i-find-my-passion-and-joy-now/ and https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/getting-stuck-on-chemistry/ and https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/the-landmarks-of-healthy-relationships/ and https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/are-you-hankering-for-the-zsa-zsa-zu-or-chasing-a-feeling/.
Basically it sounds like you’re trying to talk yourself out of a relationship where you are happy because it doesn’t have the same ‘chemistry’ and mind blowing sex in a relationship where you were unhappy. You’re looking backwards, not forwards and you’re also comparing partners. The sex is good and you’re happy. Surely that’s something that can only get better? Chemistry and being good in the sack is not the same thing. If you have chemistry with someone that’s unavailable, it’s the fact that you’re both unavailable that fuels that chemistry although you’ll note that it’s not a chemistry as a whole – it’s an if, but, maybe, and blocking out the stuff that doesn’t work chemistry. Your chemistry couldn’t have been that great if you were almost invisible after sex and were unhappy. Take your ex off his penis pedestal. Be careful of sabotaging your relationship. If you’re over your ex, he shouldn’t be part of the equation. And if you’re not over your ex, you shouldn’t be with the current guy. You have to prioritise here – good sex that can only get better in a relationship where you’re happy where you seem to have chemistry across the board OR getting laid, because that’s all your ex has going for him which isn’t much.
Wow!!! I’m such a chemistry high seeker and that’s what I’ve been discussing in therapy. I don’t get that much anymore and I wonder if feeling that is even an indication of love or just oure lust and infatuation. Ladies, you bring up many great points and Nat, you’re a blessing with this blog!
I remember that feeling Karina. I used to get butterflies and overexcitement and my mind would start running away from me. I knew I’d met someone special when I wasn’t being led by my libido and I knew even before that, that something had changed within me as I wasn’t experiencing frissons with men that I didn’t actually even know to be getting so carried away.
Thank you NAT, Natasha, and Colororange for your replies.
The last thing I am doing is trying to talk myself out of this current relationship. I am over my past relationship, have been for quite some time. I am enjoying a healthy relationship, and it feels great!
Let me try to explain a bit further what I was trying to convey in my initial post.
I love to kiss. Let’s just say the man I am seeing is not the best kisser in the world. I almost try to dodge kissing him. I love the soft kisses he gives, but when he is going for “the kiss”, he comes at ya mouth wide open and ready with tongue sticking out…EEWWW! Just turns me off!
I have tried to “guide the kiss” but it doesn’t work very well. I am so turned off when he comes at me like that. Other then the bad kisser, he’s great.
I don’t feel I need to fix him, nurture him, impress him at all. I am over the need for “mind blowing sex”. I would rather have the rest of the “healthy relationship” and the sex can be worked on. First, the kiss needs to be dealt with. Any advise?
Soul Seeking, here’s my advice on fixing up his kissing game: Procure a copy of “Atonement”. If you haven’t seen it, it contains one of the most fantastic love scenes ever – the kissing part is legendary (or maybe my friends and I are just pervy – either/or). Watch it with him and insist on rewatching that part at least twice. Look at him and say, “Can you believe that kiss? SO HOT.” By this point he himself will be all hot and bothered. Take it from there!
Maybe you could try giving him suggestions without him realizing they’re suggestions.. like mention how much it turns you on when he starts slow, kissing you without tongue. If you use it in the context of “Ooo it turns me on when you kiss me in this way” instead of telling him what he’s doing wrong and making him insecure, I’m guessing he’ll be more than willing to continue doing whatever turns y0u on.
I know who’s benefit this article is for! 😉 Just kidding Natalie, I know I’m not the only “Florence” out there. Although I can identify with nearly everything you just wrote.
My question to you is, did I get this way because of my OWN parent’s relationship? My father was very abusive to my mother (not physically, but verbally and emotionally). This is what I grew up seeing and for a very long time I even put off dating men at all (which included a bout of anorexia). The first man I felt “safe” with was the drug addict, who ironically was not so “safe” at all, but because I knew him as a kid, I felt safe. None of my relationships have been abusive though (not in any way whatsoever), but the men I’ve fallen for HAVE had a lot of issues, there is no denying that. They’ve all been “woundeds,” as you so accurately put it.
But the one thing I still don’t understand is, in every case I have been terribly DISAPPOINTED to learn about the “baggage” and problems that these men have had. I didn’t go, “oh great, now I get to ‘fix’ him!” So is it actually an unconscious desire or attraction I have to wounded types? Or can they sense something about ME that I’m unaware of? Because every man I’ve been attracted to, initially I didn’t think there were any problems with them! And they all had different looks/things about them that I liked– they weren’t the “same” guy… or were they?
Hi Marina, I think you’d really need to spend some time looking at your relationships to work out where it’s come from – if there are similarities between your partner and parents in terms of behaviour and also how you feel and behave within those dynamics, it will show where the Florencing comes from. But all the guys are unavailable, like your father and I *imagine* you may be trying to help these men in a way that you weren’t able to help one or both of your parents. Or you may be used to taking care of your mother and feeling ‘needed’. They don’t have to look alike or have the same personality – they have the same core problem. That is the pattern.
Marina – I highly suggest reading Getting The Love You Want by Harville Hendrix. From what you’ve said, it’ll clue you in to a lot of your relationships and how it relates to your parents issues. He says that we unconsciously choose partners who represent our parents or caretakers so that we can try to resolve whatever issues we had growing up through them.
I’m a renovator for sure and I got out of my last relationship because I wanted more and didn’t want to bitch at him anymore. He hated it. A lot of his issues were circumstantial, going through divorce, business not doing as well etc. even sex was never what i wanted, and i wonder how much was also affected by this. In any event, my renovating made him feel like a loser, which I saw him as I guess. Plus he was rebellious and like an adolescent, so I bitched at him about being irresponsible and security is very important to me. I could go on, but what happened is that he did turn the tables on me. I asked for a break and he ended up breaking it and I believe he has already found someone else. I feel used and ask myself why I wasted my time ‘fixing’ him, he only resented it as he wanted to see himself like he used to be. I also realized that this is an addiction on mine, probably because my past was full of conflict, but also because I’m not sure I would know how to behave in a relationship with no problems! It would be too weird, probably very uncomfortable and it would feel fake to me, like what’s he hiding. I ask myself why I am this way. Now that I am out of the relationship, I am terrified of attracting another ‘wrong ‘ guy to fix. Or worse, that I’ll never have another relationship because I’ll be so afraid of renovating again the moment I see a flaw, and trust me I’m an expert when it comes to finding flaws. How to handle this Natalie? I need help for sure.
Hi Chloe. What lies of the heart of all this fixing/healing/helping malarkey is control and believing that love is about having the power to change someone but also overvaluing your contribution where you think you’re the solution to someone else’s problems or that you have the ‘right’ to advise because surely with all their flaws they need your help. He is pretty textbook – most are initially flattered even if they become opportunistic but eventually they tire of what pretty much amounts to not being accepted and not being up to standard. What you need to do is address the prior conflict and your need to not only control the uncontrollable but also your environment – this is a situation which in spite of the headache it brings, it’s familiar and comfortable for you. A man without ‘flaws’ is an uncontrollable situation for you, which likely terrifies the crap out of you plus it’s minus all the drama you have a penchant for. Fix/heal/help yourself – it’s time to turn your misplaced energy inward. I wouldn’t be too harsh on yourself but at the same time, it’s not entirely fair to say that you were used in this circumstance – he didn’t ask you to fix him. Those were his problems to deal with, some of them circumstantial but you *always* had the option of saying “Hmm this guy has X,Y,Z and this doesn’t work for me so I’m walking.” Being in a relationship where you feel like you were bitching and you also feel he felt like a loser couldn’t last forever. You both have a right to something better. Him moving on though doesn’t automatically mean that you were used – be careful of assuming that because he has these flaws that nobody else will pick him up. As this site can testify to, even someone with more baggage than all five terminals at Heathrow won’t stop some women!
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/compassion-empathy-sympathy-hurt-hinting-and-kindness-6-of-the-most-misused-words-in-relationships-and-the-importance-of-learning-their-meanings/
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/what-hooks-you-in-your-relationships-understanding-the-combination-of-hooks-picturing-potential/
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/florence-nightingale-women-that-fixhealhelp-and-empathy-vs-sympathy/
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/florence-nightingale-why-needing-to-fixhealhelp-in-the-name-of-love-is-unhealthy-p1/
Absolutely great piece, moved me to tears actually. As a recovering Florence with some miles to go yet…! I realised that I ‘d known(on some level) for some years that I had esteem and control issues.
I also had an epiphany some time ago about the lasting effects that my relationship with my alcoholic mother had on my other love relationships and have strived to understand and change that.
As a child my life could be chaos and I identified love with chaos/drama. As a child and teenager I tried to control my mum’s drinking( I’d hide or pour out alcohol, try and get her to bed,phone round pubs to find her etc)…and I ‘ve had relationships with addicted men and found myself using these strategies hopelessly with them.
Thankfully, but I have to work hard on this most days… I have gained an understanding of my reactions to certain types of luggage laden individuals and an alarm bell,loud as hell, starts to go off in my head now.
I fell for a EUM recently and was in a relationship with him for 15 months until his occasional verbal abuse and lies became a regular feature. My reactions to him during these tirades was identical to my reactions to my mother when she would go off on one. I made the link and have been able to go NC. The Penny Dropped.
One observation I ‘ve made… I personally did a lot of work over the last two decades to mend my relationship with my mother and came to an understanding and a certain degree of forgiveness of her however… I couldn’t contain/control or stop the fall out into my love relationships. The ripple effect from childhood has been the hardest thing to work through. I guess that being a Florence was my addiction and I have to guard against that daily.
Hi Lynda – I’ve been going to a group for Adult Children of Alcoholics for almost a year now and the changes in me have been slow, but subtle and profound. Maybe some folks can manage alone the effects growing up in a household such as yours or mine (mine dysfunctional, not alcoholic) but the healing and support of being around other people managing the same issues has been key for me. It’s like finding BR for the family stuff, which affects more than just dating dynamics. Nonetheless, in the meetings, I got to watch myself being very attracted to some of the men there (I’m like a bull to those red flags!!) and learned a lot about what triggers that old, dysfunctional feeling of interest and seeking and will-he-notice-me.
I really find myself much less attracted to the guys I was even a year ago, and can say with confidence that I have been increasingly attracted to a different kind of guy. Haven’t acted on it, because I want to know myself, and get to know my own healthy feelings first. I was going to say as much to colororange, actually. It IS possible to start picking differently, and it’s not going to feel like this random blind picking where you’re like, hey, before I picked ’em and they were bad, and suddenly I pick em and – whaddya know? – they turn out great! That whole mess of not being sure if it will be the same as before will change first, I think. You’ll have confidence in yourself. You’ll get to the point where you just know where you won’t be going again.
Thanks Magnolia. I am exploring the route you suggest ..it’s been a revelation to me that my need for Florencing has been with me since childhood both as a coping strategy to gain some control and as a pseudo ego-boost’ e.g No other woman can help him…but I can!!’
I left a thirteen year marriage in my thirties for an AC with serious addiction problems, got free after four years and didn’t date for two years(thought I ‘d done some serious work on me..ahem!) Then I fell very heavily for a cultured,clever EUM who promised me a beautiful future. After a few months it became clear that he drank too much,used verbal abuse as a weapon of terror, had been seriously EU with a series of women. Did I go? Of course not… I stayed, left and went back…in full Florence costume. Natalie’s article is me.
On a positive note… I am very definite NC now. I have strong intellectual understanding of my triggers and most days am wary but doing fine. My risk remains my emotional response to these men and I think that is something I may have to guard against forever. I say that hopefully and not cynically…and I am still optimistic about the future.
Hey Lynda. (((hugs))) Some of these positions that our parents put us in are ones that really rob us of our childhood. Often it can continue into adulthood and my heart goes out to you for that young girl in you that had to parent her mother who was in no position to parent her. I think the work you have done will ripple into your future relationships. As many can attest to, when we make changes and learn more about ourselves, often we want to apply the new lessons to the old relationships but in actual fact, we have to keep moving forward. I know as someone with a parent that is too fond of the drink…that I consciously avoid situations that bring up that old discomfort and I have some very firm boundaries in place. What you come to learn is that you can help (where appropriate) without taking on someone else’s problems but that ultimately we are never the solution to another person’s problems and to attempt to have them choose us over a problem is to only replicate the unhealthy dynamic of addiction – you’d only become the new external solution to their internal problem as opposed to, for example the alcohol. They have to not only want to help themselves – they have to take the action to help themselves. Right now you have to guard against it daily but you will find that it becomes a natural habit to not Florence.
Thanks Natalie for coming back to me so quickly. You have put your finger on my need to challenge their addictions, I was throwing down the gauntlet and making them choose me over it…surely I thought if they love me they’d stop? Being doing that for more than three decades, in different guises.
I’ve done my stint though, you are right about applying any lessons learned to the future and moving on. What you have created and create daily on this site is truly remarkable. All Love to you xxx
….it’s all fruitless unless you get Return On Investment (ROI). That and knowing when to cut your losses and move on. I for one stayed waaay to long as the Fall Back Girl because I let my pride and my heart take over instead of listening to my head and my gut. Gave myself almost 2yrs more pain than I needed too but it is a process and sometimes it just takes time to see what’s really going on. Time and distance does work wonders if you let them. I look back now and just shake my head wondering what the fuss was all about.
A very good male friend once said to me back then when I was in the depths of dispair and selfpity “You know you need to grow a pair” and take back your life, he’s move on so should you. I did.
Very true MaryC – I think that’s something that’s often forgotten. It doesn’t mean we have to move on in the same crappy way that they might have done but you have to wonder “If I’m spending months, a year or more feeling bad about myself and a relationship and the other person is off having a good time, something’s wrong with that picture.” We all have emotional backbone just ready and waiting to be used. We can even grow a new one if needed. Time and distance is wonderful, not least because it gives objectivity.
I wish I’d had this advice twenty years ago! I met and fell in love with a man who was severely bipolar. I married him because, not only did I believe I could handle it, I believed I could make him better. It was a very romanticized view of love conquering all. Even though I learned mostly healthy relationship patterns from my parents, my mother does have a tendency to martyr herself, and gets a lot of credit for that, so I didn’t really see anything wrong with sacrificing myself that way.
The upshot was, I couldn’t help him, I might have helped make things worse, and even though he was not abusive or promiscuous- as some bipolars can be- most of our time together was a living hell.
Sometimes love just isn’t enough, especially if you are pursuing a self-righteous agenda, as I was.
Christina,
I really can empathize with what you are saying.
“It was a very romanticized view of love conquering all.”
I believed that as well…. I can’t beleive how naive I was. I was also self-rightous, but in reality, I see now wasn’t a good influence at all. By blindly showering my exes with “love” not respecting my own boundaries, I enabled them to continue as they were. So much for “fixing” anything.
I also wish I had known all of this years ago! But better late than never 🙂
I can really relate to your story. I dated a bipolar man for 5 years and I thought that I could be a Florence girl and handle his mood swings and drug abuse. Plus, I really though that I could help him get better, and get off of drugs.
During the 5 miserable years we were together, the stress and the drama got so bad that I was on strong anti-anxiety drugs because I was constantly walking around on eggshells just wondering when he was going to start with his abusive head games. He finally dumped me after I lost my job, and he didn’t want to be bothered with me (but he still wanted to be friends). Within 3 weeks of dumping me, I packed up all of my belongings (I lived on my own) and disappeared 700 miles to go live with my family in another state. I never bothered to tell him I was moving or where I was going, I was just so tired of the abuse. It’s been exactly 6 months today that I disappeared and have had no contact.
I stayed because I could not admit that I had made such a mistake in caring about someone who abused me. I tried to “fix” this man and, I really thought that he would change because I asked him too!
Now I am busy fixing myself so that I don’t end up in the same situation ever again.
The50thRule, kudos to you for making a move that not only breaks the tie but helps you keep you safe. To treat you in such a way was cruel but by showing you his arse, he’s cemented every reason you have for getting as far away as possible from him. When you’re on medication to cope with someone else’s problems, it’s time to hit the eject button.
That sounds like a very painful experience Christina. Unfortunately love most definitely isn’t enough. It doesn’t fix problems that require different solutions. The trap is thinking if we love enough that there will be a tipping point but we just end up bankrupt.
What a kick@ss image! Props.
Hi soul seeking
I can relate to you on this one.
My ex husband was the pipe and slippers man,he had many faults but he was safe.I was with him for 18 years and wasn’t interested in other men and I thought I didn’t need chemistry,we were ticking over nicely. I think my feelings were surpressed,because when I came to feel chemistry, it was like an unstoppable force.I left my husband for that feeling.He turned out to be an assclown and I hate to credit the assclown with anything,but he taught me I needed physical attraction more than I thought I did.That is why I have never used my ex husband as the fall back guy .
Only you know what’s right for you.
Hi Tanzanite, I think it’s important to distinguish that Soul Seeking wasn’t saying she didn’t have any chemistry with the new guy – she was saying it wasn’t the level of chemistry that she had with the ex where she was unhappy but had mind blowing sex. Sexual chemistry on its own is just sex. Chemistry in itself comes from a variety of sources including sex. If you don’t have sexual chemistry then it may feel similar to a friendship. If you have sexual chemistry but not much else then it can feel like a booty call.
Hi Natalie
I re read the post and it does say there is some chemistry, and it does sound good to me as well. I hope it all goes well for her just like I do for everyone else on here.
It was emotional chemistry that brought me back to life and the sexual chemistry followed. I didn’t see any asclown behaviour until i’d known him over a year. It was probably always there, but I was never allowed close enough to see it .In all long term relationships it can become humdrum.I was probably emotionally unavailable in the marriage even though the sex was good, we were very effectionate and we had shared values .Chemisty blinds you to the essentials of a good relationship.There is a danger when humdrum meets excitement.
When my husband found out, I remember him saying-“This is not like you,you are sensible.” That’s what chemistry does!
I am now alone in a very honest place and for now ,it feels right for me.
I would submit that sexual chemistry/interest is often the basis for man-woman friendships; it just cannot be acted upon. When the chemistry is recognized by both people and neither moves on it, a very juicy friendship can result. Talk about a sweet spot!
“Right now there are millions of women dating and in relationships with men that they 1) weren’t that interested in to begin with but thought they could change them, 2) were interested but had to turn a blind eye to some stuff and thought they could change them, and 3) were mostly interested in the purpose of fixing/healing/helping them. What this tells you straight off the bat is that many women end up in unsatisfactory relationships because they knowingly choose partners they deem as having ‘faults’ or ‘issues’. They believe that if they ‘give’ and ‘love’ that this will give them the power to change their inadequate partners and be rewarded with their love.”
I don’t know if the show Gene Simmons Family Jewels is on in the UK but that situation is a prime example of an EUM and a doormat significant other. I’ve been following it as I watched Shannon Tweed in her role for 28 years!! of being cheated on, lied to and having hardly any priority to Gene. All while he was living the rock and roll life having women delivered to him and god only knows what else he’s done. It is an extreme example but it is an example right on the TV set of what women (and men) do. You said there were millions of women … MILLIONS…..that makes my heart so sad. Soo very sad. So Gene and Shannon went through counseling and they finally got married. Has Gene really changed?? Who knows. He had his issues and he, like a lot of men I’ve known and seen, would not face them. He carried on and did what he wanted anyway all while his actions were harming those that loved him. And Shannon hit a wall and needed to make a change. This scared Gene. I hope he does right by his word and HAS changed. But why do we do this to ourselves? If we don’t say NO to these people and get the heck out fast, then they keep doing what they’re doing because no one holds them accountable. Anyway, the show, even for “reality TV” has helped me out as this blog has too.
Ha! I just watched the wedding episode last night and was thinking about their relationship as well. Interesting that the son, in his toast, was bold enough to say in front of everyone that the wedding itself is nice but meaningless unless the father follows through on his word. I think Shannon seems like a pretty smart and aware woman….I guess she saw some good in him and she always hoped that he would grow up?
Yes! That was bold of Nick. Once I gave my dad a Father’s Day card that was blank. While it may have come off as harsh, I wrote “thanks for showing me the way not to be”. Heartless, right? It was my being honest and that there are no realistic father’s day cards I could ever buy the man because he has not been a “father” to me, ever. So I am not going to give him some lie about “thanks for being there Dad and always being someone to talk to, yata yata” because it’s a lie. I appreciate when a child can stand up and say what’s real and not play along with the charade.
I was impressed by the son’s comment as well.
Wow, interesting what you say about greeting cards as I have the exact same issue. I don’t bother buying cards for my Dad for any occasion for the same reason–none of the words written inside are true in my case, and I don’t feel like he’s been a father to me. My sibling does buy cards though and adds my name, I believe.
How did your Dad respond to *that* message?
My Mom really loves her kids and she was always there for us, but she’s pretty emotionally repressed and it’s tough to find greeting cards for her as well: “you’re my hero, I learned X because of you”…none of it applies.
A
My dad just said “thanks” and hugged me. I don’t think he GETS it. I don’t think he ever will or can. When I watch dads and their children and how loving and there they are for them, I still have moments of sadness. I know I am an adult now and can make different choices BUT that sort of void is there.
He has been strung out on some kind of substance for decades and only recently has he been “clean” but that is because he is forced to. I have a wall up when i am around him because he has shown me over and over again he is not safe. No wonder I have chased after EUMs . My dad never truly showed me any interest thus my attraction was to men that were the same way. Luckily, there is a man I have sort of adopted as a dad and he has been supportive. I know this sounds bad and macabre and pitiful but honestly there are times when I feel like I wish my parents had not had me. It’s bad when the person that is supposed to be your “protector” is as immature as a child. I don’t say that to seek attention but I would not wish what I went through on another person. Just the outright emotional neglect and verbal abuse has made it difficult to deal with life on life’s terms. I work at it all the time and wonder if I will EVER get to a place where the old wounds don’t sneak up on me. It is a constant tug of war in my mind. But I’ll get off my pity pot now. On to a new day.
Colororange: I’m no contact (no exceptions) with both of my horrible parents, but I like your greeting card idea. I’m NOT going to send them any card, but maybe for next mother’s day, I’ll buy a card and “edit” it a little, just for myself.
I hate this “all parents are good” culture. It’s simply not true.
Recently I saw a car with a sticker “I’m a proud parent of a xxx student” on it. In my mind, I pictured another sticker for my parent’s car that said “I’m a proud abuser of my child”.
Colorange,
I’m sorry to hear about your experience growing up, my heart goes out to you 🙁 I get so frustrated by bad parents–I know that we all have our issues, but when someone has a child, it’s time to deal with those issues as best you can and try to become a better person.
What a bizarre response to the card–almost as though he didn’t read the actual words or was in complete denial. I feel much the same way as you describe re my father–I too am sad at times as I think it would have been really nice to have a “real” Dad. I didn’t have to deal with a substance abuse situation, and so while I don’t really talk about it much, if someone hears that I don’t have a relationship with him they don’t really understand (especially given that my parents are still together). And as for my Mom and brother, even though they get sick of his bs as well, most of the time they seem to act as though I’m the problem in the equation for not putting up with him.
I can see some similarities between him and the EU. Always so “busy” (though of course not really), he definitely talks at people rather than to them, will not take responsibility for anything…the list goes on. The TV was on once and there was some statement about how girls who don’t have good relationships with their fathers may end up in poor romantic relationships. My Dad’s comment: “boy are you screwed”…said so casually and almost with a hint of amusement.
I don’t know if we have it over here although I think I’ve heard a little about him. The reasoning for celebrity relationships for getting married / staying, especially when there are cameras that record everything are different to non celebrities as it’s in essence a ‘plot’ not a fly on the wall documentary. I think only time will tell. As I said to someone who was telling me about her guy and how when he was younger that he had the fanciest motorbike around that he used to pick up women with as he didn’t have much else going for him “He’s pushing 70 and a pain in the arse. Soon he’ll be *that* deluded older guy trying to pick up young girls with a bike.” At the end of the day, losing a woman after 28 years is a scary prospect – it’s very hard to have the security that comes with a 28 year long fallback option.
While it’s slightly off topic, I’d like to piggyback off this: I’ve become hooked on the Real Housewives of beverly hills. Camille Grammer (ex) wife of the comedian Kelsey Grammer is shown going thru the agony of betrayel and divorce from her husband, who after 13 yrs of marriage began an affair with another woman, told his wife in the middle of the night this “wasn’t working” for him and he wanted out, and married his GF even before his divorced was finalized. This is his 4th marriage BTW. So Camille describes how she was always supportive, raised his kids, encouraged him to pursue roles and she didn’t see this coming. Yet in the next breath she describes how he kept her “in a cage” and was controlling. So the signs were there all along, she just chose to ignore them. Maybe she figured her unconditional support of him should bind/obligate him to her. While she ultimately filed for divorce (notice it wasn’t him who filed. Why should he look like a bad guy, right?) she describes pleading with him not to leave..even though he’d emotionally divested a long time ago. I don’t watch reality TV but I was sucked in because I can relate, and because it’s so horrible to see someone have to go through this in front of the world. I looked up Kelsey Grammer’s bio on Wikipedia…holy crap, talk about baggage. Your jaw will hit the floor when you read it. As much as I feel awful for her, how could she not see this coming ?(says the woman who didn’t see it coming!)
I was thinking the same thing too colororange.
At the end, where it says the relationship ends in one of three ways, well the first happened to me. It seems that my ex’s new gf is reaping the rewards of my suffering. I feel like I was the lab rat to test out all his bad behavior on and now its out of his system, he treats his new gf with so much love.
I just want to know what most people think: did he really change or will he eventually leave her abandoned like he did me?
He’s 29 and she is 20. They just moved in together after barely knowing each other a year and dating 6 months (that I know of at least…probably longer). Last time I knew, he didn’t have a job because he is an illegal alien and claimed he couldn’t find work.
It seems like I suffered for him so much, and now after barely dating, he loves her so much. And my 3 years got nothing.
Oh Chanel just sit back and watch what happens. A leopard doesn’t change its spots but more importantly you need to take care of yourself. You’re hurt and rightly so but don’t let him have that kind of hold over you. I learned the very hard way that if they’ve moved on be glad you’re free. He’s her problem now and trust me you know down deep in your heart that he is. Stay NC, get on with your life because it annoys the shit out of them. And like the old saying goes “Living well is the best Revenge”.
Chanel,
“I just want to know what most people think: did he really change or will he eventually leave her abandoned like he did me?”
Who cares? Rather than wasting time worrying about how happy he is or whether of not he’s changed for the better with his new woman, why not put all of your energy into working on yourself and on putting yourself out there in the hopes of meeting a man who will love you in the way in which you deserve to be loved? Once you do, I guarantee you that you will care less about how your ex is living his life. Remember: leading a happy healthy life is the best revenge.
Gina and Mary
I know what you both are saying is right. I have been NC for 3 months, besides one slip where I looked at his gf’s twitter to find they had moved in together and had been dating way before he admitted it. But it has been a whole year since I have even had one date. My life is good. I am 6 months from finishing school and have finally put my finances together after he wreaked havoc on them.
But I just feel so lonely all the time and it hurts so much. I don’t have any friends either. So it isn’t like I am just lonely romantically. I just feel so frustrated that a person like him is “in love” and has a serious relationship already and I have yet to have one date.
It just feels so wrong that all my hard work and kindness went into nothing and left me with nothing, to where I had to work so hard to put the basics in order. But I definitely will never take care of another man the way I did with him.
Chanel,
I know how you feel, for a good long time I was very very lonely. I still am in some ways, but I found some really good people when I put myself out there.
As for the EUM who’s moved on… best of luck with the NC. Even though he’s “in love” and “moved in and happy,” how likely does it seem like it will last? It’s probably a case of same sh*t, different smell anyway, until he tires of her. I was involved with an EUM (although not physically, but very deeply emotionally,
I was pretty much the Backup Girlfriend on standby FOREVER) whilst he paraded his so-called loving, amazing relationship in front of me, even as he knew I suffered and how i felt, and taking from me what he could get to satisfy whatever the GF didn’t.
Recently he’s hit upon a rough patch with her, cheated on her, and comes crying to me about it all the time. I gave him a bit of ‘told you so’ advice and sent him on his way, because we’re not friends anymore and I don’t owe him anything. He also said some really horrible things about her and their relationship, but I wasnt fooled for a minute because I *was* there when they were lovey-dovey and supposedly perfect…
And they’re still together, despite the cheating and how bad it all was! It’s hypocritical and I feel a bit disgusted and amused writing that out. Your EUM has applied the bandaid of a new relationship and it will probably just go south just as your relationship did. But it doesn’t have to do with you anymore, does it? Let them make their beds and lie in them. As long as you can, don’t look backwards and RUN.
D,
You are definitely right when you refer to it as a bandaid. I firmly believe, as Natalie writes about in other posts, you can’t rush into a new relationship right after breaking up. It doesn’t give you time to heal, grieve, reflect and be ok being with you and only you.
My ex claimed he was working on himself this past year after we broke up, and his new gf came along when he was a “better man” and had learned the right way to treat a woman. This is so false because up until he started dating his new gf, he was still claiming love for me and “trying to work things out” with me. I don’t believe leading me on while casually dating someone new means he was working on himself. Plus, their first month of dating he hid it from because he was still trying to sleep with me.
My ex wanted two florence/renovators. It wasn’t enough to have just one.
Chanel,
“But I just feel so lonely all the time and it hurts so much. I don’t have any friends either. So it isn’t like I am just lonely romantically. I just feel so frustrated that a person like him is “in love” and has a serious relationship already and I have yet to have one date.”
If you live in the U.S., Google “Meetup.com” and type in your zip code. Get busy participating in various social activities that interest you. If you don’t have much money, sign up for LivingSocial.com. I relocated to be with my ex EUM from across country. He was the only person that I knew when I got here. I joined Meetup and when I broke up with my ex, my new friends carried me through the tough times. I am so thankful that I put myself out there. I am also finishing up my master’s degree and studying for the comps exam keeps me pretty busy. The most recent thing that I did was to buy a house (I absolutely LOVE fixing it up!) and I got myself a little dog (he’s a pomeranian/sheltie mix and is SO spunky and adorable). Taking care of him (cleaning up his poop and walking him) keeps me out of my own head. My ex has met someone else too…but I now know his pattern…he’ll blow hot for a while, lead the woman on until she starts to ask about a future, then he’ll dump her because he’s still in love with his ex that was mean to him and dumped him. My ex used to say that I made him feel loved, cherished, and adored, and was the best girlfriend that he ever had. Nevertheless, he didn’t love me enough to see a future with me. Even if he does end up truly loving the new woman, and I end up not meeting someone, my motto is:
“Better to be alone and single, than to be in a relationship and wish that you were single and alone.”
I have been married twice and let me tell you something, the loneliness that you feel being single pales in comparison to the loneliness that you feel being unhappily married. Remember: YOU are responsible for your own happiness!
I’m not sure if I’ve said this to you before Gina, but I admire your spirit and I’m glad you share it around. You faced a difficult situation and you pushed past the pain. Yeah it’s been hard, yeah he was a shit, but you’ve not let that hold you back. You are doing so much for yourself – really you’ve ended up giving two fingers to him and your experience instead of giving him your power. Kudos. I have an acquaintance that moved from here to Canada for an ex only for it to all go tits up very quickly. She stayed there for a few years, forged a successful career and sideline business and turned what started out as a shitty experience into the making of her.
Gina – I was just about to suggest Meetup.com myself! I joined a group for Singles and have met some nice people through it. Not anyone that I’m interested in, but I’m not ready for that anyway. But it’s nice to find other people who are also looking to make new friends!
Chanel, my heart goes out to you but this situation can change. Right now you’re very focused on him – that doesn’t leave you much time and energy to focus on you. You should be out there going to social events as Gina suggested and building your own life. Your life will not get better while you immerse yourself in being angry with him for having a life.
And I’m going to say something here – at one point, this man who you refer to as someone like him, was good enough for you to sink three years of your energy into. From what I gather he is an illegal alien and it also sounds like you have bankrolled him. Don’t pity someone and take them in as a project because you think that due to who they are and what you deem them to be that they’ll need you and *can’t* leave. That is no basis for a relationship. You want to be with someone that you respect that you don’t need to raise from the ground up and have him dependent on you. That’s not the only type of relationship you can have.
And as an aside, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out what’s going on – illegal, enjoys the financial trappings of the women he’s involved with including a home, money etc. hmmm, met a new woman and moved in pronto… If you could do it for 3 years, another woman can too. Sadly.
I just want to add that it’s normal to hope he doesn’t miraculously change into a ‘good guy’ for the next girl when you feel wronged.
But by focusing on yourself, these feelings do fade eventually–if slowly.
To be honest Chanel, anyone who has ever 1) had little or no boundaries or 2) has been and done things that in retrospect they recognise wasn’t their greatest move, or 3) learned anything and applied it to new relationships, has been a ‘lab rat’ or had someone who was their ‘lab rat’ at some point in their life. Relationships serve to teach us about ourselves.
If he was able to test his bad behaviour, you provided the safe haven for him to do it. This is why relationships have to be mutual because if they’re not, you put in effort that starts to feel like an ‘investment’ and then feel like you’re ‘owed’ even when they move on.
That said, I’m not going to sit here and play Mystic Meg and say “Sleep tight tonight. I can assure you that he will abandon the other woman and leave her in pain so you can feel vindicated and validated.”
The truth is that you unfortunately, like many of us, made a bad investment. Because you chose to put up with shady behaviour for 3 years, it doesn’t mean he’s in the ‘system’ – ie even though it’s now over between you, you’re now going to track him from here to eternity and through every relationship he has to ensure that at least if he doesn’t come back to you, that he at least continues to eff every woman over so you don’t feel like you made a bad bet.
Nat you hit the nail on the head. We can either (like I did) feel sorry for ourselves and want vindication/validation or we can move towards a better life.
Chanel I know it hurts like hell, I was a basket case for well over a year and I kept going back for more pain/heartache but there does come a point when you have to let it go and think about yourself.
What good does it do to spend all your time either in revenge mode or selfpity mode ABSOULTELY no good. Take it from me it will gets you nowhere except digging a deep hole to crawl into.
You said you haven’t had a date in over a year, do you really think you’re ready to date? No other man wants to hear sob stories about our exes when they’re on a date, they want you to be focused on them or I assume so or they wouldn’t of asked you out in the first place.
Also you say you’re at school, aren’t their other students/clubs/events you could attend to met new friends. I think you’ve been so consumed by your sadness that you’ve let the rest of your life suffer needlessly.
Take a deep breath and be good to yourself.
Natalie,
Everything you is very true and it is why I make sure to see what new posts you have on here every week .
Honestly, finding this website finally allowed me to really start to move on and accept that is what I need to do. Before, it was a constant battle with him, breaking up and making up ALL THE TIME. It was exhausting. Yes, we were together 3 years, but from the first month we had a break up where I tried to leave and he chased after me. Plus, I look back at the past year and see that when we broke up a year ago, I should have went NC right there and I would have been a year NC instead of just 3 months.
This site helped me know I was not alone in what happened to me and that it happened to other good women. It also helped me put his behavior into words, label and explain what I always could FEEL was wrong but couldn’t say HOW it was wrong. It also helped me identify my behavior as trying to “save him” “build him up” or “show him what true love could do.”
Thank you so much to everyone who has replied and showed caring towards me. It helps so much.
Wow. This post is all me, well, WAS all me. Been broken up for 1.5 years now and in all this time, not a single prospect. I don’t know if I’m just not interested in men at this point an all the bullshit that tends to come with them, if I’m jaded, if I’m scared to put myself out there, of I can’t be bothered…or maybe all of the above?! its kinda sad because I see single friends around me with prospects, things happening for them etc. This always seems to happen for everyone else but me! I end up single forever. I don’t get it. Then it makes you actually 2nd guess your decision, like really, are ZERO prospects in almost 2 years better then a relationship with an EUM? Because quite frankly I find this just as depressing! So what’s worse?!? Someone who gives you attention and all that, but on THEIR terms or being alone with zero prospects like, forever while you watch your EUM move on without you (which mine did shortly after our breakup and has been with the same girl ever since). Sorry, but I don’t know what’s better.
Hi Tyla, I’m not sure what you mean about prospects but I would be careful of linking two unrelated elements together – i.e you’re not with someone and your ex. Not being with someone doesn’t invalidate the old decision to end your relationship. It would be better for you to work out how you feel about you and relationships.
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/getting-out-of-stuck-what-are-you-doing-to-help-bring-love-into-your-life/
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/quiz-are-you-ready-to-date/
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/quiz-test-your-beliefs-about-feeling-and-receiving-interest-from-others/
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/quiz-how-commitment-resistant-are-you/
Ultimately you have to decide what’s better. You don’t have to be single forever. Go out and date or whatever – you’re a part of the equation too.
Tyla
That has been something I’ve been pondering for a year or so (prompted by an attraction to who may have been an EUM). My last relationship ended 8 years ago. Some dating, but no relationships since. It’s frustrating and I often think I’m the only one in NYC who isn’t with someone. My brush with the maybe EUM is what brought me here. Additionally, my ex EUM of 8 years ago and I are now communicating, as friends. He wants to get back together but I’ve flatly said that while I know he’s changed (and he has) I no longer trust him and I can’t go ‘backwards” after the progress I’ve made. But also, I know he primarily wants to get together with me because he’s afraid to grow old alone (funny but when he dumped me he said “years from now, when I’m old and alone, I’ll regret this”). For a very long stretch in my life I felt the same. But reading everything here, and thinking about past relationships I realized this: I would rather be alone than be in a relationship for the sake of being with someone, out of fear of being alone. I stayed in my relationships for that very reason; but I was miserable and- ironically- alone even within the relationship. It’s only now, at 41, that I’ve decided I never want to be that scared again. As much as I lament my non- existent love life, I will not give into that fear again. Eventually I hope you come to that same determination about yourself…
“I would rather be alone than be in a relationship for the sake of being with someone, out of fear of being alone. I stayed in my relationships for that very reason; but I was miserable and- ironically- alone even within the relationship. It’s only now, at 41, that I’ve decided I never want to be that scared again. As much as I lament my non- existent love life, I will not give into that fear again. ” Brilliantly put Meagen19. I would continue to positively get on with your own life – you’re only 41. Keep going and don’t give up on love as it’s like giving up on yourself.
thanks Nat. You’d think you’d get to a point or age in your life where the all lumps have been taken, all the lessons learned, let’s move on thanks- very- much. Enlightening as these lessons are they are slso exhausting, and there is an endless store of them. I’m complaining, but grateful at the same time.
Tyla, I would rather be on my own living my OWN values than with any man who is emotionally unavailable and NOT respecting me. I am worth it and so is every women. Get your self esteem up to a good level and you will find that lonliness just becomes good time to invest in yourself and you want the RIGHT man and not just ANY man to fill in the time.
@Tyla: I had similar thoughts for many years. 15 years ago, I had lots of dates. I was younger, but I also put up with a lot more crap than I would now. I envied almost every woman with a partner, thinking they were all happier and “more valuable” than I.
Now I haven’t dated AT ALL for more than half a year and frankly, I wouldn’t like to be in many of those relationships I used to be envious about. Many of those ladies sacrificed their careers for their partner’s (after all, a man’s ego doesn’t allow any sacrifices on his side, right? – WRONG!), do all the cleaning and housework or put up with cheating or sexist or humiliating remarks.
Of course, I’ve met quite a few woman ACs as well. This applies to both sexes.
I never felt comfortable with disfunctional relationships, but I believed this was my own fault. After all, they seemed so common! I envied other women for putting up with them because I believed this was “normal”! In counselling (and with the help of this and other websites), I learned to trust and accept my own feelings.
I should have bought stock in ‘Home Depot’, ‘Central Hardware’ ‘Lowe’s Hardware’…. LOL
Too funny Angelface. If you had bought that stock, it would have been a better investment
This song keeps rolling around in my head when I read through this post so I’ll paste it here. Coincidentally it is titled The Fixer.
“When somethings dark
Lemme shed a little light on it
When somethings cold
Lemme put a little fire on it
If somethings old
I wanna put a bit of shining on it
When somethings gone
I wanna fight to get it back again.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Fight to get it back again
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
When somethings broke
I wanna put a little fixing on it
If somethings bored
I wanna put a little exciting on it
When somethings low
I wanna put a little high on it
When somethings lost
I wanna fight to get it back again
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Fight to get it back again
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
When signals cross
I wanna put a little straight on it
If there’s no love
I’m gonna try to love again
I’ll say your prayers
I’ll take your side
I’ll find us a way to make light
I’ll dig your grave
We’ll dance & sing.
What’s saved, could be one last lifetime!
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Fight to get it back again
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah”
by Pearl Jam
Imagine what we could do if we quit trying to fix what is not ours to fix. If we quit waiting around on someone to be who we want them to be and move on to someone that is everything we want. Imagine if we ditched the broken toys we did not break for ones that are in one piece. Imagine if we could believe we are whole and that we can have a partner that is too. Imagine that the biggest drama you could possibly have is that he forgot and left the cabinet door open or forgot to take out the trash. Isn’t that better than wasting hours or years expending brain power on why a guy is or isn’t doing A, B, C, D, E and F and 1, 2, 3 and 4, that is completely disrespectful of your value? The way to FIX that is to get the heck out.
I agree Colororange. How different our lives would be if we didn’t make men a vocation? All that time we spend in unavailable relationships or trying to get them back makes us unavailable for an available relationship. It’s time to have a more productive use for our energies – fixing isn’t love; it’s pity.
Fixing isn’t just pity, it’s actually rejection under the patronising guise of helping someone because people are too “nice” to actually adnit to themselves, this person does not do it for me, puts me in a position to bust my own boundaries and isn’t all that nice!
Maybe we just need not just a bit more realism but actually one or two more nasty bones in our bodies!
I agree with you Bee. I have this niceness crap going on and I think it makes me a doormat. Yet I can feel guilty or bad if I am nasty to someone and sometimes end up apologizing when they weren’t necessarily nice to me to begin with. AND they rarely go out of their way to say they’re sorry.
Colororange – Read up on the difference between being assertive and being aggressive. You don’t have to be a nasty bitch to speak up when something doesn’t feel right. There’s a way to stand tall for yourself without the negative energy that comes from being aggressive. It’s something I’m working on myself right now – learning to be Assertive Carrie (heh I’m my own AC!) and doing and saying what’s on my mind instead of whatever I think will keep everyone happy. No more people pleasing for me! There’s a time and a place for diplomacy of course, but it’s pretty rare compared to how often I used to use it.
Carrie,
I hear you. I struggle with it daily with the people I work around. The majority of them are mouthy and speak what is on their mind while I hold it all in. It’s a bit more difficult when I am in close quarters with the very people who I let run all over me. They’ll say stuff, coming off as joking, some might be joking, but it is hurtful at times for me so I isolate (learned from childhood). I do not want to “stand up for myself” then have to listen to or watch the others mouth even more or whisper in their offices about what I said/did.
I really identified with this post too. My Assclown had a horrible childhood which left him with a lot of issues and baggage. I thought I was *special* though and unlike all his other ex-girlfriends, I could *fix* him. Well, I tried. And I tried. And I tried.
I tried to get him to develop insight, learn how to budget, start looking at his own life and planning his future, rather than living day-to-day, tried to get him to open up and communicate. But it didn’t work. He ended up repeating the same pattern he has repeated his entire life. When things got too hard – he ran. Escape the current relationship and move on to a new woman; a woman who hasn’t yet seen his flaws, so that he can go on pretending what a great guy he is.
And that’s what he did to me. After being with him for nearly 4 years, and friendship for 6 years, he broke up with me over the phone, and within a week had moved in with a new woman. Apparently this new woman is living her “happily ever after” “fairy tale” with him. I too, would love to know whether any of my fixing rubbed off and he is now leading the perfect life with this woman. I question myself sometimes, too. Maybe I expected too much from him?
But you know what? I think he is beyond changing. So, like all his relationships before him, although they may last 3 years, 6 years, 4 years, theirs too will end eventually. This is it for him. This is as good as it gets. He doesn’t want to change. He doesn’t have the capacity or the insight to change. Nothing that I could do, no matter how special or different I thought I was, was going to change him. It’s been a painful lesson. It’s a shocking lesson. But it’s the truth.
and move on to a new woman; a woman who hasn’t yet seen his flaws, so that he can go on pretending what a great guy he is.
You got it spot on LA! These guys move on when they have rung all they can from you and or/when you have sussed their ways. The relationship will only continue for them if they can continue the facade that they are a good person. When the facade starts to crumble it is easier to move on, fresh blank canvas ready to soak up a new pretty picture…rather than stay and confront themselves. You are right. You could have done nothing. You are special and unique, you do not need his affirmation to know that.
It seems like you are being more rational and realistic about your ex LA which is great. You’ve taken him down off his pedestal, one I should point out that inflated him into something that didn’t exist. The fact is, it takes more than a week to change. Change isn’t a token gesture of chit chat – it’s consistent action again and again and again. It is very true that a new person isn’t seeing them in their entirety – the new woman represents a reset button press and a fresh start. People who pay lip service to change and who are actually quite content with their status quo always have you on borrowed time. They either bail or they treat you like shit and create conflict to distract from their lack of contribution while at the same time creating new issues out of the conflict. You are not the only woman to attempt to change this man. The mistake we make as women is being competitive and thinking it is the failure of previous women’s love that has stopped him being a better man. It’s him that stopped him being a better man.
“People who pay lip service to change and who are actually quite content with their status quo always have you on borrowed time. They either bail or they treat you like shit and create conflict to distract from their lack of contribution while at the same time creating new issues out of the conflict.”
So true! Before I got back together with my ex, he insisted that he was a changed man and promised me a “sales pitch for the new him”. I wish I was kidding. Needless to say, I never really got the sales pitch (I don’t know what I was expecting – a PowerPoint presentation?) and he continued to be an ass. When it was over and I called him out on his crappy actions, he was still bleating that he was a changed man. It’s like getting dressed in the morning and saying, “You know what? I’m going to change my outfit.” and then coming out dressed in the exact same clothes saying, “I SAID I changed.”
The last time I talked to my exEUM he was saying how much he was in love with his new girlfriend and in the next few minutes was trying to sleep with me. It sickened me. The one thing that never happened with us is him sleeping with someone else during our on phases. How could he think I would share him now?
That’s when I knew that if he ever did change some HUGE life event would have to occur. He’s too content being shady.
“He’s too content being shady.”
Jupiter23, that made me burst out laughing! It’s very, very true about a lot of these guys – they are more than content being shady, but are determined to project a Great Man Image that has little to do with their actual actions. What you said was actually a perfect summary for my last relationship – 5 years of yo-yo bs condensed into 5 words. You’re one smart lady!
Ew! How creepy is your ex? It just goes to show Jupiter23 that we can often be blinded by the information that they’re with someone new, but really, the leopard is all too quick to show that it hasn’t changed its spots, while at the same time saying “But I am in love!” Your ex doesn’t even know what the frick that means! Jackass!
Nat,
BR and your book has been a godsend! Honestly, if I’d known about redflags, and understood how co-dependent I was, I could have spared myself so much grief. So many of us seem to have the same stories, the same needless heartbreaks. The last few posts really bring home the confusion and pain that comes from getting involved in an unhealthy situation in the first place.
I can now actually identify the specific moments/conversations with each ex when I (knowing what I know now) should have said, “This isn’t right for me… Goodbye!” and moved on instead of staying for YEARS.
Why do we believe that we need to fix someone to get the relationship we want?
Why do we accept poor behaviour and wear ourselves out trying to make the “relationship” work?
Why do we believe our validation comes from others approval and not ourselves?
Two years ago, I didn’t even know to ask these questions in the first place, much less be able to answer them. Coming here over the last couple of years has helped sort so many things out. I make it a point to share what I have learned with my girlfriends (we are in our 30?s and still learning!) but especially with my baby sister, who at 19 was already showing signs of being a Florence Nightingale (her father is an alchoholic). Needless to say, Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl is her early Christmas present. Thanks for the priceless words of wisdom!
Jasmine
Ah thanks Jasmine! I’m glad you’re helping your sister because hopefully she can nip this in the bud before it becomes a lifelong pattern. The wonderful thing is that you can articulate how you feel and identify where you know that your relationship is falling short – in turn you are also asking yourself the right questions to demand more out of yourself. Things can only get better.
I’ve just bought my copy of Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girl, and Ive spent so much time flicking through it thinking: ‘Yep yep yep, that’s me, down to a tee.’ I havent had a chance to read this particular chapter in it yet, but I can probably spot myself in it too!
I think that’s probably one of the biggest hallmarks/commonalities in relationships between FBGs and EUMs. I don’t even notice this tendency in myself when I begin to fancy someone, but when I think about why I persist in relationships (and even friendships) where I don’t even LIKE the person/have common ground anymore… I think this is part of the reason why. For me this manifests in losing sight of my relationship and the reality of the person I know… because you get so fixated on the irks, the issues, the little project you’ve set for yourself. If only I worked through everything in my life with the dedication and magnifying glass I cast on my EUM(s)!
As well as that, I find the Florence idea really… ridiculous once you think about it. I have been guilty of Florencing so many people in my life, yet I’m putting in so much to “fix” them, but then Im terrified of him/them hobbling away into the sunset, without me and healed!
It’s a crazy crazy cycle. My needs are important than trying to control someone and smother them with control-love. It’s sad to think back in my life and realise that what I said was “love” or anything related really wasn’t… but I guess I dodged many bullets.
But thank you Natalie for framing this in simpler, often quite funny, terms. Being able to laugh at this is a good thing I think.
You’re welcome D and thanks for buying my book! You are so right about the fear of them hobbling away lol. It’s that need to be needed. If they’re ‘fixed’, your purpose is over, plus you then become afraid that they’ll look too closely at you plus you don’t have them to focus on so *you* have to look at you too.
When I heard about Gebe Simmins getting married I thought the same thing! And I thought after all this time stringing her along, while he has his cake too what’s the point in even getting married?
This is a great post NML. The song below is for the florences and renovators. Sometimes we florence and renovate OURSELVES to meet the sick needs of the EUM. NOT anymore.
Enjoy!
Kasey Chambers –
A little bird told me late last night
If I hold my breath and do everything right
You might come back
If I colour my hair and I wear it down
And I make you laugh like a circus clown
You might come back
And a little bird said with a wink of an eye
If I beg real hard and I do not cry
You might come back
If I keep my opinion under my breath
And I only bring it out when the master says
You might come back
But I don’t want you that bad
No I don’t want you that bad
Well a little bird told me as plain as day
If I change my name and I change my way
You might come back
If I sell my soul for the greater cause
If I burn my records and I listen to yours
You might come back
And the little bird said in the middle of a dream
If I shut my mouth and I don’t make a scene
You might come back
If I cross my fingers and I curl my toes
If I look like the other girls everybody knows
You might come back
But I don’t want you that bad
No I don’t want you that bad
No I don’t want you that bad
No I don’t want you that bad
Thanks for sharing Ramona. It made me smile wryly…remembering my old self!
Tyla
This is kind of how I feel. Ok the mm is eum,flip flapper but I have been stuck in separation limbo for almost 2 yrs with the husband living in the basement apt in the same house due to finances. What emotionally available man is going to want to get involved with this situation? My kids are teens and are doing there on thing most of the time,all my friends are married. So it’s like you would it be any better to not have the mm’s attention and someone that seems to care,although on his terms? Not to mention how much I love him. But then I wonder why can’t I just be happy with the time I do get him and not worry about it when he is being cold or lukewarm? Is it because what little esteem we have left fights this?
I have been reading the eum and the fallback girl and while I seem to get the dynamics, my question is how do you change? How do you get the strength to walk away from someone you have spent the majority of every day of the last year and 9 mos. thinking about and hoping for?
Ms. Option,
I feel like I’m about to be a little harsh. But your comment reeks of someone who doesn’t, deep down, want to get better.
How in the world can you be asking if it’s better to just be happy with the little time a married man gives you? You can’t be happy because your self-esteem is almost nonexistent, it is morally wrong to be involved with a married man, and you keep asking the same questions instead of changing your situation.
You can’t wait until you’re strong enough to leave. Addicts don’t quit because they’re strong; they quit because they reach bottom. Your bottom has obviously not come yet; some addicts never reach bottom though. That’s the scary part. You might be doing this for twenty more years or until one of you dies. How badly do you have to hurt before you stop?
Ms Option, your name says a lot and you’ve been here for a few months and I think that you feel like you have no options while at the same time are determined to ensure that you are an option for this man every time he wants to lead you up the garden path. I’m not saying it’s easy to walk away – it took 18 months for me to walk away from the mind fuckery and I didn’t have a man in the basement and some kids. The thing is, as long as you see yourself as someone with no options, you will continue to rule out all your options and stay in the half life with Mr I’m Married But I’m Doing The Poor Pathetic Me Whine and No I’m Not Leaving and My Wife Doesn’t Understand Me and Yada Yada Yada. And this is where you can see a difference between the sexes – if the roles were reversed, your husband would have an out in the open girlfriend as he wouldn’t let anything get in the way of his ego. Wouldn’t it be better to resolve the house situation first and then sort out your love life situation?
I’m sure I’ve said this before, but you can’t have it both ways. You want to be “Oh no I have no options so I’m going to be with a married man” but then complain that he’s married even though it’s what he’s been since the second you met him. I think if you sort your own life out instead of avoiding your problems with a married man, he won’t be attractive anymore. Take action. Stop saying you can’t do anything. You can – you’re choosing not to. You and your husband need to find a medium to long-term solution that you can both live with that allows you to both move on with your respective lives. You’re not going to work out that solution if you’re too busy knocking off a married man.
Ms Option,
that was a very confusing post. If you want to change your life CHOOSE to change it. There is no change fairy that is going to come into your life make the situation with your husband go away and make you EUM divorce their partner. You have got to choose better circumstances like sorting out getting a divorce from your husband, moving on emotionally and choosing a man who can give you more than crumbs when it suits them.
I can tell you myself that nothing makes you feel MORE empowered than choosing your own moral compass and getting rid of a married or attached man from your life. Think about your values..are you really okay with seeing a married man? You can do better and if you had better self confidence you would see this very clearly.
Quoting Barbara “I need to FIX me this time, instead of trying to rescue all those wandering ‘lost’ dogs. Until I feel like I could attract and be with an emotionally healthy man, by being an emotionally healthy woman myself, I will opt to be alone”
I agree. I feel so wounded, and I believe that I am definetly a Florence Nightengale. When I left in January I left with the confidence that I knew I had to leave, when I bumped into him 2 weeks ago I became needy. BUT when I sent those awful malicious texts I told him all about himself that he needed to fix, and then I sent an apology via registered mail for my behaviour but not my words- stating that I did mean what I wrote.
And if that isn’t enough… the whole town is talking about how he is a big BS’er and doesn’t follow through on his business promises…and then of course a part of me wanted to go to his office and tell him that…. and then ask for friendship.
So before I went and did anything stupid. I logged onto BR. And I’m avoiding getting off my office chair. It’s almost as if I believe that until he accepts my apology, changes his ways, becomes amazing…I can’t rest. It’s like I have this over bearing need to always make things right and to fix other people. BUT OBVIOUSLY I’m the one who needs severe help ( mental 🙂 help).
Why oh why would I want someone who doesn’t want me. Who has told me point blank a relationship and marriage is not on the offer but I believe in my messed up mind that if I fix him then he’ll love me because I was the one woman who fixed him. I’m feeling feeligns of guilt because he turned the whole walking away situation in January all on me, as if he had no actions that built up to make me walk away and I’m feelign guilty for telling him what I really thought of him and now I’m feeling guilty for not having his friendship.
And then I’m feeling guilty for going NC because a part of me feels he wins and I give him what he wants…which is me out of his life. And then I want to go and tell him how it’s not right for him to think this way about me.
So yes, this post is timely. And I know you all think I’m f***up. And I’ll admit..I think I’m borderline getting to crazy. But I’m going to push through and although I wont’ be able to see the light now…I’ll see it one day. I need to stop with my FNightengale behaviour. Get a grip Anari!
Anari, you are trying to control the uncontrollable. It’s like you want to take over this man’s mind and life. You want to get behind the controls because you can’t bear the idea that he’s not seeing and thinking about you in the way that you think he should. You don’t own this man and you’re attempting to control his agenda and imposing yourself in his life. That’s not love or friendship and in actual fact, you’re really overstepping boundaries, never mind your own ones.
You have some very distorted ideas of what friendship looks like. If I were him and you came to me and said “Everybody is saying that you’re a bullshitter that doesn’t follow through on your business promises…OK so now that I’ve imparted this piece of information, can I please now have your friendship?”, I’d be wondering if you were at the crack pipe.
And maybe this is what yours and many of the other comments highlight – that you assume that someone you deem as broken and who you think you have done things to fix/heal/help owes you something *because* he is broken. You think you’re entitled to friendship and that no matter what you say or do, he needs to remember that he’s broken. He doesn’t want you to fix him. He’s not asking you to fix him. You also have your own agenda, which isn’t friendship – it’s being *right* and levelling yourself or reclaiming your pedestal that you think you had when he was broken and you thought you were fixing him. If you know that this man wants you out of his life, don’t you think it’s unbelievably aggressive to be like “Well screw that! I’ll be damned if I get out of your life! You will not win!”?
The worst thing that you can do Anari is persist down the road that you have because no matter what he has done, by forcing yourself upon him, you’re inadvertently letting him think that he has legitimate reasons for behaving as he has. The truth is, and this is one of the double standards of life that looks more kindly on women, if he were doing what you are, he would likely be on the wrong end of the law. I’ve seen men get warnings from the police for less. You will never earn friendship from anyone by guilting them, forcing yourself upon them and demanding it from them. You are so much better than this – have some self-control and stop allowing yourself to be sidetracked by your ego and what you think this man may be thinking about you that he’s probably not even thinking. The odd thing is that if you’d gone about your business and not acted like he was the messiah, he’d have been the one looking you up for a pseudo friendship. Leave this man alone and focus on you.
I agree Natalie! 100 percent. I’m the one with the problem. I havent done anything since the last communciations. It’s been about 6 days. I’m relying on BR and your support. I know I’m better than that- and I’m amazed at what I turned into. I’m getting a grip….and letting him be.
My last guy had so many issues that if I had managed to fix him I would have won the noble peace prize. That didn’t stop me from trying. It’s funny how my issues, which paled in comparison (seriously, he had BIG issues) , became the main topic of what was wrong with our relationship. The tables were beginning to turn on me but I wised up and bailed. Now I look at him and wonder what the hell I was thinking. I wasn’t thinking….I was mesmerized by his looks. I aimed seriously low and got exactly that. This was my ‘tester’ relationship after discovering BR. I still picked a fixer upper but the twist was, I opted out. In the past I would of stayed and let him drag me through the mud.
I’ve been dating a nice man now. It’s early still, but no issues or red flags are jumping out at me. I too, didn’t feel electric chemistry with this guy in the beginning but as I get to know him I am falling for him. I don’t see any thing about him I need to fix or want to change, which let’s me focus on keeping MYSELF grounded and in check, so I can enjoy and participate in this budding relationship in a healthy way . It is a nice change from the chemistry ladden drama of my past relationships. We are having a pumpkin carving date tonight. I don’t fret about him not showing up or showing up late or drunk, or any other shite. How refreshing. Still, my eyes are open and any red or amber flags won’t be ignored. I think that having a slow growing affection instead of instant fire chemistry has helped me keep my head on straight and kept me rooted in reality instead of a whirlwind carnival ride.
Your post made me smile Jennynic. Yay for you! Enjoy it! “think that having a slow growing affection instead of instant fire chemistry has helped me keep my head on straight and kept me rooted in reality instead of a whirlwind carnival ride.” Yep – it’s very difficult to see anything when you’re blind or whizzing by on a rollercoaster.
Jennynic, how dreamy, a pumpkin carving date. I love halloween. Even better yet, “I don’t fret about him not showing up or showing up late or drunk, or any other shite. How refreshing.” And, you have nothing to fix. I’m really focusing on the difference between “a slow growing affection instead of instant fire chemistry”. Thank you for posting. I’m still thinking about how wonderful it must feel to know he’ll show up, on time, and sober. Seems like base-line decency? It seems so odd that I used to fret as to whether he’d show and when, although he was usually sober. I defined that anxiety as as “chemistry”?
BTW, Natalie super pic and great post. I’m so happy your new edition is flying off the shelf. Are you hearing how many of us are tremendously grateful?
Runner, the pumkin carving date was perfect fun.
Thank you Natalie. I am enjoying it! The roller coaster always made me want to puke anyway. I won’t miss it. ; )
NML,
I have been reading your blog faithfully for years, but never commented until now. I have been both a Renovator and a Florence. As you have repeatedly said, all of these issues are rooted in low self-esteem. Over the last year, I have been working hard at loving myself and establishing healthy boundaries in my relationships. As a result, I feel much more comfortable trusting my own instincts and acting upon them.
I just bought three copies of your book on Amazon in the US. One for me, one for my younger sister, and a spare book in case I feel the need to pass on your wisdom. Please know how much your work is appreciated.
Oh thank you Progress Ahead! You’ve given me a big smile before bedtime and I appreciate your support.
Chemistry is the one thing that lead me astray with my ex. After 4 weeks of no contact, he suddenly calls trying to set up a way of keeping in contact, saying “let’s chat when we feel like it”..that means when HE feels like it. Last night after a late night call where he bored the ass off me, I realised that he actually offered me nothing I want and this morning I’ve told him so and told him that it crosses my boundaries and morals to date a man who is in a relationship and been living with a woman for several years, it’s against my morals to sleep with a man who is spoken for and it is against my standards to allow a man to treat me less than and think that by leaving well alone they can press the restart button and all is forgotten and forgiven. Suddenly, I realise that I have my own moral compass back and this throws into stark relief all the bullshit I allowed myself to accept. Today I have spent my life totally happy and not wishing things were different. When you allign yourself with your own beliefs whatever decision you need to make becomes easy.
I love that Bee “..when we feel like it” – you and he are not the same person! He’s a cheeky feck! I love that you are being a person of action – all too often I see people vocalise what their boundaries and values are and then renege on them. Enjoy life!
Natalie,
what was a bit pathetic was last night the late night call was when I said clearly where I was coming from and how his partner would be devastated if she knew how unfaithful he was , in a sad and whiney voice he said “There’s no reason for us not to chat tomorrow is there…I’m doing a lot of driving and we could speak!”
You’re not getting it bud! The four weeks that we have been in no contact has made me see this as it really is and I seriously want nothing to do with a man who is okay with cheating on his partner. How can you trust a man like that? He will never get it. Further and I told him this myself. If the lady ever found out and killed herself or something, how would I live with that! It’s not exactly spreading the love around is it?
Then he said “would your feelings change if I were single!!!!?”
You’re kidding me right? You’re not getting it again. If you were single you would be the same man different shirt! How would that help!!! Fcuking hell is it me or is it him that has the problem?!!
Yes, it’s the action part that recently(ish) I find the hardest – ages ago I had no boundaries at all, not even made up pretend ones in my head (seriously, I came to this site through google after a friend said to me about my lack of boundaries, and I had no idea what these boundary things were she was on about, let alone have any?!) There I was thinking I was loving unconditionally and this was a good think?!?
Then slowly I’ve began to realise a) I had no boundaries b) my lack of them had landed me in hot water time and time again , and c) I started to think about what I want from relationships, situations, dates, how I view sex etc, which led me to *think* about where my boundaries are, or rather should be.
But actually putting them into action I find really difficult – it’s like I can now talk a good game, but often playing it is another matter – It makes me feel weak and a bit useless tbh. I’m not sure why I find it so difficult – possibly because I chase a short term feeling and ignore the longer term outcome (pain) or is it that I dont want to do the hard work? Is the action part meant to be that much more difficult?
Anyways, tonight for the very first time I walked away from a situation I think I would never have walked away from before. I realised that although getting into this particular hot water wouldn’t be *terrible* as such, it would be a case of making me feel less bad than I have been recently, but only for a very short period, followed by feeling worse.
However at the moment I dont feel much better for adhering to these boundaries – Is this is what you mean by making yourself uncomfortable rather than settle for the more painful-what-i-know…?
The last straw that led to me going NC was me repeatedly telling him the things he needed to change in his treatment of me. I went NC when I realized it was relationship insanity to try to change him. He was just doing what he wanted/being who he was and I had been giving him every reason to believe I would be the one to change and fall back in line with his needs. I think my backbone was finally strengthened by some positive changes in other areas of my life.
I am amazed at the progress I have made in getting beyond my 6 years with him by reading everything on BR the last several weeks. In the last 2 days, after 8 weeks of NC I had several messages that he needed to ask me something. When I finally decided to return his call because it seemed he only wanted something specific, it turned out to be a request for the date of a transaction I had completed for him. He was on the other line with the bank so he said he’d have to call me back. He did call me back and I ignored it because as far as I was concerned the situation worked out as well as it could have – a businesslike conversation and then back to NC.
Honestly, even a week ago, I don’t think I could have been so firm in my resolve. I’ve been doing the work to accept my complicity in the disrespectful treatment I was receiving and admit to myself that I was really rarely happy with him anymore and the sex and dinners were definitely not worth pretending I was OK with things as they were. There are no thoughts of men on the horizon but some exciting and confidence-building professional opportunities are making a huge difference. I have a great new account and that is the only place I will answer “How high?” when asked to jump. I think getting rid of my AC signaled to the universe I was open to greater possibilities in my life.
HILARIOUS (but not really)…I actually said to my EUM after he asked me to come over “I’ll peruse the ROI and get back to you…”
So I’m on day 20 of NC. I cut the cord, was disappointed that he said NOTHING after I said I didn’t want to compartmentalize anymore…which in my mind translated to I WASN’T important to him, etc…anyway, over the past almost 3years of back & forth, 28 days is the longest I’ve ever been out of contact with him. Signed up for Natalie’s NC emails (cannot wait!) and really, really hoping that it gets better…someone tell me that it gets better, yes?
Eternal Summer,
Yes, it really does get better – though depending on how much you lost yourself in the relationship, progress can be a bit back-and-forth and feels almost imperceptible sometimes. Everyone has a different timescale for how long it takes to start feeling better. Try to be patient and gentle with yourself, and let yourself *really feel* all the conflicting feelings that happen while you’re working your way through it all – don’t swallow them down inside, as not acknowledging and expressing your feelings is a major cause of depression. Natalie’s NC e-mails are a wonderful side-coach and morale-booster over the 60 days that you will receive them, you won’t regret signing up. The scales already seem to have started falling from your eyes about the reality of him – keep going, and try not to get despondent if you feel yourself slipping backwards from time to time, it’s all a normal part of grieving for the loss of the relationship your heart wanted but your head knows was never going to happen.
Eternal Summer, I saw your post after I posted. Yes, it is amazing what you will find on the other side! I was so miserable, I thought I lost weeks of my life – could barely work, not sleeping, etc., but really I was finding myself. I thought I was pathetic spending several hours a day reading BR and even thought it was keeping me from moving on because it had me thinking about HIM. I now realize it started me thinking about ME in the right way. I am so grateful and surprised at the shift in my thinking and that is what will set you free. It took me about 8 weeks to get the distance I needed after 6 years and there are still things I miss but not enough to sell myself out. You need to really recognize and own your role in your unhappiness and decide to do something differently. Really, truly, as hard as it is now, NC gives you the space you need to do this. I cannot express how grateful I am for Natalie’s no BS expression of her wisdom. Do not underestimate the role reading BR can play in your recovery!
BTW, I use the word “recovery” intentionally because I think most of us here are not mourning lost love but rather getting over an addiction. Whether it’s to repeating the same behavior by try to fix something about ourselves, childhood, disappointing life choices – whatever. I think these relationships are a distraction/smokescreen for what really ails us. We use the drama like a drug and it’s time to get off the relationship crack!
it gets better, I am going on 4months. It is hard but it gets better. You feel happier and you get more and more comfortable with your decision.
I experience on rare occasions when I am walking somewhere and I think I see him (it is never him because I stay away from places he goes) my heart beating really fast for a few seconds. When I first started NC I used to think that this feeling was excitement of possibly seeing him again and that I secretly wanted him back but I soon realised that it is a PUS (an emotional reaction to a Psychologically Uncomfortable Situation). Never mistake your discomfort, anxiety, fear etc for love or excitement, it will set you back.
When you get used to so much drama and not really being able to understand all the hurt you feel because it is coming from someone you love, it makes it hard to identify the truth of what you are feeling. This has been the hardest thing, rebuilding my emotional intelligence.
congratulations on your 28 days 🙂 keep going!
Eternal Summer,
It’s get so much better that eventually you just stop thinking about them and get on with your life.
thank you-support from people who’ve been there done that is really nice.
I really see I keep repeating my relationship with my dad over & over & over again with my romantic relationships: choosing emotionally unavailable guys and then doing anything (even if it’s not right for me) in order for them to show me love. 🙁
sad.
calling it quits with the latest dude would have been super easy for someone without my particular past so once I got cozy with reality, pulling the plug was really the only intelligent thing to do. the hard thing is accepting the reality because, of course, i keep wishing it was different. but it’s not. and that’s the point! 🙂
love you natalie & all commenters! could NOT have pulled the plug without you!
A little off topic but I’d like to add that when he called me back, he didn’t leave a voicemail message. It was that exact lazy communication that he had managed me down to expecting that started our final argument. He got angry at me for not calling him back sooner about some plans. His number was not in my call history for whatever reason – I was on another call, my phone was off, etc., but he felt entitled to be angry and basically accuse me of lying. WTF?!! It wasn’t important enough for him to actually leave a voicemail but it was punishable behavior on my part? I have saved the texts of this exchange as a reminder if I start to doubt my instinct to stay NC.
I’ve been doing well at recognizing the reality of EU-ness and my issues with it. I was a fixer, offering unconditional support in hopes (I didn’t realize then) that the EUM of the moment would love me for loving him. What this discussion makes me realize – esp. in regard to a guy I have crushed on recently who does have some insecurity issues that I’ve tried to “help” him with- is that the VERY FEELING of wanting to fix someone should be a red flag for me. I’ve been focusing on a guy’s flags and not realized I have one- maybe more?- of my own.
meagan
That’s so insightful – we’d be so much better served dealing with our own issues than getting distracted by other people’s. The problem isn’t REALLY that he’s alcoholic, a narcissist, drug-addicted, a cheater, married and if we can “fix” that, everything will be good in la-la land. The problem is that we find that attractive. It’s a compulsion in us to seek out trouble.
Anyway, I have a nice story. Friend of mine had a horrible relationship with a womanising good-for-nothing which left her completely devastated. She took time out, no dating. Had some terrific adventures and some years later has met a lovely man who is honest, funny and spoils her. She’s surprised that he’s not her type, ie “exotic” and complicated. Just a nice, straightforward boy next door. Hurrah!
And she is in her forties, by the way.
Grace
Ah- a tale of hope for my 4o something self. Does her guy live in NYC and have a brother?!
meagan19
I think that as soon as we start to think we can “help” someone it is a red flag . You are basically saying that you don’t accept them as they are and if you don’t accept them, there must be some boundary they are crossing. If you love someone you accept them, you don’t help them (read manipulate,or control) to change them to morph into the person you really need
Bee
I was really mulling over this last night..yesterday after reading this post was a string of epiphanies . For me I don’t think it’s him (or anyone) crossing my boundary. I think it’s a deep impulse in me- he’s ALMOST perfect for me, and if I can just tinker with him and make him better, I’ll get the perfect guy AND he’ll love me because I’ve made him a better man. It’s manipulation derived directly from my own insecurity. I think, the “perfect” (i.e. emotionally healthy, shared values, strong character) guy isn’t attracted to me, but if I can just mold THIS one…I should instead think , I’m worthy of that “perfect” guy; that wanting to fix someone is patronizing; that changes cannot be forced on someone, they must come from within; that he may not see his “flaws” as flaws and would probably be insulted I even label them as such (I’m not necessarily talking massive EUM type flaws); that if I expect a man to love me for who I am- flaws and all- I should be willing to do the same for him (as you also noted). And that, if I feel a need to change him, that’s my signal to back away as I’m committing a disservice to both him and myself.
Eternal Summer, I saw your post after I posted. Yes, it is amazing what you will find on the other side! I was so miserable, I thought I lost weeks of my life – could barely work, not sleeping, etc., but really I was finding myself. I thought I was pathetic spending several hours a day reading BR and even thought it was keeping me from moving on because it had me thinking about HIM. I now realize it started me thinking about ME in the right way. I am so grateful and surprised at the shift in my thinking and that is what will set you free. It took me about 8 weeks to get the distance I needed after 6 years and there are still things I miss but not enough to sell myself out. You need to really see and own your role in your unhappiness and decide to do something differently. Really, truly, as hard as it is now, NC gives you the space you need to do this.
I cannot express how grateful I am for Natalie’s no BS expression of her wisdom. Do not underestimate the role reading BR can play in your recovery!
BTW, I use the word “recovery” intentionally because I think most of us here are not mourning lost love but rather getting over an addiction. Whether it’s to repeating the same behavior by trying to fix something about ourselves, childhood, disappointing life/love/career choices – whatever. I think these relationships are a distraction/smokescreen for what really ails us. We use the drama like a drug and it’s time to get off the relationship crack!
Also, I’m sure part of you is cynical that your particular situation is understood. For a while when I would read comments here from women who “did the work to love/validate myself and feel so much better,” I thought the writers were different from me and my pain… Maybe, they were now just on BR crack instead of AC crack? No, I now know that BR provides the tools to let go of the addiction and live our lives free to pursue happiness.
In my twenties I went out with this guy – a bit of a tortured soul ( so exciting in your 20’s, tiresome after that) and I was Florence, trying to make him feel better about life and himself. He was pursuer – withholder, he charmed me, told me he felt good with me, gave me mixed messages and when it was time to get physical, he would bolt ( or get drunk or high ). I was a mess, I bored my girlfriend to death about it. Then I leaned from third party that he found me physically unattractive (too fat) I was a size 16 , unsexy and demanding sexually ( lol ). Out of the blue, he told me he was in love with my girlfriend and she with him. I had a mini breakdown, refused to talk to either of them, after I behaved like a lunatic (calling his phone, screaming and raving) I walked away from the group of friends I hanged out with ( they all knew and said – did nothing ) and licked my wounds in private. He called me 3 months later asking to meet me and I said no, he made me physically sick. Two years down the line I meet an old friend who tells me – he was impotent (girls talk) with a woman unless she was a prostitute. He hated his mother and she had been so cold and distant with him, he had to make his anger at his mother by rejecting the women who “loved” him and frustrating them, like his mother had frustrated him.
I learned to do what I call the energy test, if spending time with a guy left me drained, if a man made me feel bad for being sexual or bad for being sexually assertive, he had to be deleted from my life. I am not canvassing for sainthood and being selfish makes sense. Now it’s – I bring this and what do you bring to this equation? Love the Harville Hendrix books.
So a luscious size 16 (is that UK 16 or US?) and hot to trot – and he’s freaking out!
This cracks me up: so many of these guys just can’t handle a woman who’s all woman … it completely terrifies them. They can be so full of piss and wind about their own desires and needs and machismo, but when they meet the real thing, it can be a tad – er – challenging for some of them?
You so don’t need weaklings – not an Amazon like you. You need a real man!
PJM,
Thanks lol
I am 14/16 bottom and size 18 top, all UK, which is 10/12 and 14 US ( Thanks GAP) .
I don’t know if you have seen Mary McCormack in her series In Plain Sight, but when I saw her in the show, I thought at last a woman I can relate to.
I had a bad body image ( repressive childhood, a mother who hated her own body and could not be positive about mine and a dad that does not like women) I was size 16 and fit, I have swimmer shoulders, so I don’t look vulnerable, I like my shape but I was uncomfortable with it then. You can look sexy but worry too much about looking “right” and how you actually feel gets buried. I am not surprised when I have heard women – looking picture perfect and sexy – say they did not have fun or had the confidence to express their need in bed. They are so worried about looking attractive to the other sex, they have no time to think about what is attractive to them. We get fed so much crap in the media. I saw this video at the gym, where these 5 pretty girls are singing on top of a mountain, perfect hair/ make up/ clothes perfect but with bare legs, what in the dead of winter. Hello ?????? If you need to be permanently in a diet to be deemed desirable that leaves no energy to find what you want or like. You can’t lose yourself if you haven’t found yourself in the first place. He did mess me up for a while, but my choosing him – I did not pick him up for nothing, it did reinforced the beliefs I was ugly and that my desires were wrong. I learned not to pursue men who made me feel bad for being myself.
I am fitter than I was in my twenties and can articulate what I want. I did tons of body-work, learned to be grounded and stopped hating myself. The thing is that we can fake it, and we use sex differently, men use it to be close, and we need to feel close to use it. Being assertive ( but not emasculating) can make them feel less than a man, especially if they need to control you to feel like a man. The bigger the front the bigger the back as they say, the more machismo a guys gets, you can bet a man – child is hiding behind the façade. If they are stuck in the Madonna / Whore zone, and if as their woman you are expected to become their mother (saint- like, mothering and nagging) and fall into that trap problem will occurs.
NML
Hi Natalie, thank you for your reply. I guess it is about control. It’s hard for me to know how to deal with this one becasue my life feels out of control, I’m still not working after a long time and now I lost him. It feels like I have been loosey goosey in many areas of my life and do not exercise enough control, then I seem to want to make up for it in relationship with men where I guess I do control. I used to think that I could make plans for my life, then realized, after my plans didn’t work out to let go of planning and that doesn’t work either. I’m trying to figure out, how do I deal with this within me. I feel I have let go fo a lot of control in my life already, so have no idea how to proceed. I miss him very much right now and want to break NC, but my pride won’t let me because I don’t want to hear that he’s moved on, and that even feels like control. Any ideas would be great.
Eternal, yes it gets better. But it REALLY gets better when you get quiet, look inside of yourself and discover the strong, secure, beautiful person inside of you.
I spent almost a year mourning my ex, emailing with him as “friends”, trying to keep a thread between us. One day I literally woke up and said to myself, “I want to feel loved and communicating with him does not make me feel loved.” And then I had an epiphany: the feeling of love was coming from inside of ME. And if the feeling of love was being generated by ME, love must already exist inside of me…regardless of who was or was not in my life. I haven’t been the same since that day. No one “gives me” love. Love is already here. And if it’s already here a) no one can take it away from me and b) I can share it freely (with the right people/boundaries) and not feel insecure.
I have moments where I feel like I am going back to my insecure self, but those moments don’t last when I remind myself of what I have inside.
I used to caretake and renovate men. I just don’t have that need anymore.
Discovering the love I have inside of myself has been the most liberating and profound thing I have ever experienced.
Wishing the best for all here.
Healing One,
I like your comments and really agree. When you look at the “relationship misery” and decide to really ask yourself what makes you happy and what feels like love, you realize it resides inside you.
It is powerful to get inside yourself and understand what motivates our choices. When we can uncover what is driving our self destructive behavior and choices we can then decide to make better choices….to try out different options and see where that takes us…it is such a process and often a long one…but I notice that each small thing I do adds up to shifting my perspective ever so slightly….and sometimes not so slightly..
I have noticed that since I have moved away from my family, I have had the opportunity to grow in ways that I would have not had. I have been able to get perspective on the patterns in my childhood that were not very good…that continue to hold me back.
I am grateful for this opportunity,even though I love my parents and siblings dearly…there patterns that I just don’t want to replicate.
It is so tough sometimes, but when you look inside and tell yourself that whatever happens I will function from a place of self love and do things that are in my best interest, you are bound to move forward and take care of yourself…even if it doesn’t feel like it at the beginning, when you are just getting used to what it feels like to be happy.
As a man, I have found the R&R syndrome in myself upon becoming close to women whose lives are on the verge of falling apart. I think: “Sure, a little effort on my part to bridge this (presumed by me) temporary gap in resources/resilience and she will be back to normal.” The main problem becomes: there is no normal. The exact description you succinctly provide vis-a-vis men has been true for me with my lovers/GFs for the last 12 years (disclaimer: I am not perfect and certainly not an ideal boyfriend). Even though I have paid myriad traffic tickets & utility bills, covered all manner of life necessities, helped move their mothers, stood knee-deep in the dysfunctional way they raise their sons, attempted to be positive and optimistic and on and on, I get painted as the EUM simply because I have protected myself from the mammoth confusion in their lives. It is very difficult to tell a woman who is working so hard to succeed that they are floundering.
The final word offered in the article has been consistently true for me: the person receiving the help does not truly appreciate it and usually demonizes me as the giver. I am developing the ability to cut my losses although my innate reservoir of empathy makes it really challenging to do so.
Bruce,
they don’t appreciate YOUR help because actually they don’t want it! Any help would do. It’s likley not anything to do with you.
@Bee:
“they don’t appreciate YOUR help because actually they don’t want it! Any help would do. It’s likley not anything to do with you.”
I agree with your response to Bruce… that they just want help, and any help would do had nothing to do with person they’re actually getting the help from..so TRUE! It helps me to detach myself from that person when I can accept that perspective, I feel less victimized in a way. Similar to, if someone was drowning in the Atlantic Ocean, they don’t care who saves them just as long as they get rescued from drowning to death, rite?,same thing? I’ve learned a lot of lessons, and I will not ever throw a ‘life jacket’ in anybody’s direction EVER again, that’s for sure, my favorite words/phrases are “NO-NO, H3LL-NO & H3LL 2 da NAWL!”
Bruce,
“…the person receiving the help does not truly appreciate it and usually demonizes me as the giver”.
Forgive me, but you sound a little miffed at the perceived lack of gratitude and appreciation you are given in return for your help. Perhaps you might ask yourself what *really* motivates you to offer help to these “women whose lives are on the verge of falling apart”? Do you offer to help your male friends out in the same way? Also, maybe these unappreciative women feel a little smothered by so much (unsolicited?) help. Just a thought.
Bruce.
Motherhood,in my experience, is a complex ,rewarding,difficult and lifetime sign up…
I ‘m having difficulty with your comment ‘stood knee-deep in the dysfunctional way they raise their sons’,unless you were there from day one….how can you possibly judge how any woman raises her child?
I say’child’ because women have daughters too and for some reason you have chosen to be concerned with their relationship dynamic with their sons?
I may be picking up the tone of your contribution wrongly,but this piece is about recognising our need to control others(florence/renovate) and how that doesn’t work…you seem to be lamenting how you have tried to control others and they, because of their failings, haven’t listened?? Respectfully, you are on the wrong page.
Hi Nat,
Thanks for the very nice compliment. I grew up in a dysfunctional home environment- mom was verbally abusive and later diagnosed as being paranoid schizophrenic. Dad was a violent alcoholic who beat the crap out of my mother. Mom could give excellent advice, but could never follow her own advice. It took me 35 years before I was able to accept that their issues had nothing to do with me. I learned to set boundaries and walk away when people tried to mistreat me. My biggest fear, which I am still working on overcoming is the fear of growing old alone, as both parents ended up homeless and alone. Got mom off the streets, but turned a cold heart on dad. I will never allow a man to get away with treating me the horrible way in whIch he treated my mom. Yes, I set boundaries and will walk when a man oversteps them. I am just sick and tired of so called “nice” guys turning out to be not what they seem. I want to meet a great guy like you and other people whom I know who have been happily married for 20+ years. Sigh.
Gina, this did my heart good – thank you for sharing that and helping me to put into words what I need to repeat often.
My Parents’ Issues Are Not Mine.
I will happily care for them in their old age along with my siblings, but the emotional baggage they carried and which they passed on to me is NOT MINE any more.
We had an enmeshed ‘fortress’ family with a lot of emotional incest, and the boundary-setting has been really helpful for me too.
But I have been thinking about the dating thing, and have decided to take a break and concentrate instead on shifting some winter flab, getting some sunshine, doing some exercise, eating better and – tonight! – making Jamie Oliver scallops and enjoying my own company (the housie is out; she’s wonderfully restful, quiet and often absent)
I never took my biplane ride! (overtaken by events) but instead I might use the money to buy a bicycle …
Hey PJM,
“Gina, this did my heart good – thank you for sharing that and helping me to put into words what I need to repeat often. ”
You are most welcome! You sound like a survivor! I think that it is so wonderful that you will care for your parents in their old age. You will be blessed for this. I wish that I would have been a better person and tried to help my dad, but I was filled with nothing but anger and hatred towards him (it took decades to forgive him).
We can’t choose our families, unfortunately. I am grateful that I was blessed with a resilient spirit that has enabled me to overcome when faced with adversity. The way that I overcame my f*cked up childhood was to grow up and make choices that would ensure that I lived a life that was both happy and personally satisfying. If I would have allowed the atrocities committed against me in my childhood to spill over into adulthood (as many do), then I would be doing nothing more than cheating myself. We only have a limited time on this earth, so why waste it worrying about the past–which we have absolutely no control over? I keep a picture of myself, at nine years of age that I took with my mother, to remind me of the hurt and pain that I experienced growing up (you could see it in my eyes) with wacko jacko parents who told me that I was dumb, and stupid and would never amount to anything (I later realized that they were transferring their own insecurities onto to me). Let’s just say that I have exceeded my own expectations (I grew up having an inferiority complex). I have traveled all over the world and lived in Eastern Europe and the Middle East. I went back to school and am currently finishing up coursework for my second masters degree. When I graduated from college with my B.S. degree, my mom refused to come to my graduation ceremony stating, “Your degree doesn’t benefit me in anyway, so I don’t see any point in being there.” I didn’t let it hurt me though. Instead, I chose to be proud of myself as it took me ten years working full-time and going to school part-time in the evening, to finish school. So I did not need her approval. To hell with her! I walked across that stage with my head held high!
Yes, I have my sad moments, but overall, I am happy with myself and do not allow other people’s issues to affect my own sense of self-worth. Family members and childhood friends who saw how I was treated are amazed at how well I turned out. When they ask me how it is that I turned out so well adjusted (read, “normal”) I reply, ” Because I chose to be this way.”
To use Charlie Sheen’s words, “I’m winning!”
“Renovators can pretty much date any Mr Unavailable or even a decent, available guy and try to fix and make him over, but you tend to be with Opportunists, guys who get involved because you serve the purpose of being useful. On the take, they have little or no regard for your feelings, and because of your renovating ways, they see it as their right to exploit the situation. ”
Amen, amen, amen. I am a renovator. When I read this post, I was slapped in the face with your words – why did I want someone I knew was damaged, incapable of loving and just generally an asshole? I thought I could “fix” him. Why I would waste the time and effort, I don’t know. I absolutely agree that my low-self-esteem was behind it, although I couldn’t see it at the time. I thought I was “loving” and “helping” and showing how big I was. I wasn’t. I was just hiding from a healthy relationship and focusing on him so I didn’t have to deal with me. How messed up is that?
Here’s a link to another website – current letter of the week ties in well with this post:
This is from a man’s perspective, but the advice is similar.
Love the analogy to flying a plane – “the airplane is your life and you’re flying it into the ground.”
Yes, love that, as well as this bit too: “in the cockpit of an airplane who do you need? The person who thinks well of a bungling crew member? Or the person who sees and acts from reality?”
Grace, that was awesome – thank you for sharing it! I love how he broke down what it was that the dude writing in actually “saw in her”. So true!
Natalie
I know you are right and I just finished the chapter on the ow and learned alot. I have to say I can be so down and start reading your book and yes I learn a lot but also a lot of it makes me laugh out loud. The way you put things mixed with being the exact things I have done and he has done makes me laugh and kind of see how silly some of it is. I would recommend everyone to get this book, it is worth the money.
All I want to say is that I just wished that I never helped him ‘with this and with that’ he has never kept his word to pay me back as he promised me. He’d say “don’t worry I’m gonna pay you back everything don’t worry I will not forget,” *blankstare**rollseyes* pleeeaaase, so far years have gone by but “who’s really counting?”-ok, I am/was! *smh* This is one major reason that made it so difficult to move on b/c I wanted my money back from this AC (he’s just so sorry he can’t/won’t do whatever it takes to give it back to me) He’d always has an excuse or some new project/pt job he’ll be working on that is sure to get him some MONEY soon, etc… I got so tired of these false hopes of his that I said to myself “just 4get it all & move on with YOUR LIFE b4 you become ‘old and gray’ waiting on this habitual lying AC!”
Bee,
cut your losses and forget the money. Any man who borrows money from a woman and then doesn’t pay it back is a XXXXXX (supply your own word). You know this. Forget the money it’s not worth it in keeping you in dialogue with him. You know that too.
Princess
My 2nd BF was a genuine AC. I loaned him $3000 over several months to pay of debts, him saying he’d repay me. I was a total florence, but fortunately not entirely stupid: I kept copies of all the checks and receipts (perhaps I subconsciously acknowledged he was an untrustworthy AC?) . When we broke up – or rather, when he disappeared- I initiated a suit in small claims court. I had moved to Pennsylvania and had to go to NYC twice for hearings, to which he never showed. At the 2nd hearing. The judge enacted a pay garnishment. Well you can bet he showed up for the 3rd hearing. He cornered me in the elevator and begged/threatened me to stop the garnishment. I felt cold and aloof- empowered actually, not like the whiney/clingy/no self respect gf I had been. In front of the judge he asked for a 4th hearing because he wanted a lawyer. The judge almost lost it with him and angrily said she knew he was stalling and he better have a lawyer next time (that judge probably witnessed a slew of AC’s every day!). The 4th hearing came; I had just started dating someone and realized that continuing my vendetta was not healthy, that to progress in my new relationship I must cut the old one lose. I didn’t go to NYC- and I’m sure he was pissed to show in court with a lawyer and find I wasn’t there! The new BF turned out to be the EUM who set me back the most; but the point is, I realized I was never getting that money back; I was tired of the fight; and pursuing the fight only continued to tie me to the AC and drag me down more. It’s likely you’re going to have to write the money off , thereby cutting that last tie to the ex. It’s ripping the band aid off, but you will feel better.
@Meagen19:
Thanks so much for sharing b/c just like you did, I was contemplating taking him to court as well (just don’t have time or energy-it’s to humiliating for me to drag it on or face it), I have copies & date and recorded statements of his promises to pay and I could very well fight for it as well, but it’s not worth it. One thing I don’t want is to get dragged into the NEGATIVITY of the whole ordeal. I just don’t want to face it anymore. I feel it’s not fair that he doesn’t keep his promises but in my world I do keep mine and I would not do this to ANYONE b/c I’d care about how it would hurt the other person involved. My WORD means a lot to me, but his words are just AIR. “Saying and doing or two entirely different things!”
I guess the message in a nutshell is:
Do the work on yourself, girlfriend, and don’t waste your energy on him. Change the one person you CAN actually change, which is you.
Does anyone here like Jane Siberry? Her song ‘Love is Everything’ is a good way of teaching yourself to learn from your mistakes, and that not every relationship is going to work out.
http://www.smoe.org/nbh/lyrics/wiwab/love_is_everything.html
PJM, I’ve been a Jane Siberry fan since the 1980’s — her voice is so purely amazing, and her lyrics to this song, unfortunately, are so spot on — makes me sad every time I listen to that, but it’s a good reminder. Thanks for this — actually have this CD and will listen later today…
I thought I was the only one who stood in front of the Father’s Day Stand at a loss as to which card to buy. It is all part of the denial about the truth of our family why at my age I still feel obligated to go along with it is a puzzle.
These relationships go one of three ways: he moves on and someone else appears to reap the rewards of your effort, he stays but refuses to change so you end up living in Misery City, or he leaves and remains the same anyway.
I have owned top notch real estate in Misery City. I spent many a year trying to heal an ex who had a terrible childhood. My ‘love’ would heal all fix all make his life so much better all at my own expense.
He wouldn’t take any notice of me and my fixing fell short he didn’t want me to heal and fix, but he stayed to leech of me taking all I had to offer. I did eventually, finally end it with him I have absolutely no doubt we could still be together now he wasn’t one to leave while I was working myself to the bone trying to heal him of his wounds.
I felt I did learn my lesson to a large degree because I didn’t want to fix the next eum, except to tell him all about himself and what he could do to improve, but still at the end of the day it was a huge improvement on all what I done before. Least I was just speaking and not doing. So still a road to travel.
Tulipa
maybe answer your first question. Why do you stabd in front of cards at Father’s Day when you feel that you don’t want to send one. Maybe if you answered that question, your interest in emotionally unavailable men would vanish. Just a thought.
I can answer that simply put if I didn’t it may or may not blow open all the denial that exsists in my family. Though probably just be another thing to be swept under the carpet will see how I go next year. (ps this is to do with my step dad not dad no need to pretend with my dad he wasn’t there)
Tyla I 100% feel the same. It’s like why should I put myself out there just to be cheated on and dumped again? I am sick and tired of getting hurt and not meeting a good guy.
Fed up,
there are lots of dcecent honest men out there. Just because things haven’t worked out for you doesn’t mean they won’t. Getting hurt is part of the learning and you have to take a leap of faith and learn from your past and get on your horse and ride. It’s that or live your life alone which is fine but why let some assholes from your past have such power over your future. If you don’t know how to learn from your past then seek help from people who can assist you professionally and rebuild your confidence in your fellow man.
Bee&PJM&Tulipa:
Your thoughts were very helpful in confirming that I’ve done the right thing…it was just sooo hard to do sooner than later..I was trying to understand WHY, WHY, WHY,WHY ME?, at that point in my life I felt I couldn’t take any more disappointment the world had to offer me but then… DRUM ROLL PLEASE…here’s the ‘fantasy relationship’ I’d just always wanted to break my heart -not! Here’s my ‘fake’ knight and shining armor I just really need to HURT me the most in my adult life – not!…I was blinded by what I thought was true love? I crashed&burned hard- so embarrassed I couldn’t even discuss it with anyone-so hurt! I trusted him more than I should have, I should have trusted my instincts.
PJM:
Those lyrics spoke to me & brought tears to my eyes, you understand… so I’m learning love teaches many lessons…I realize love taught me how to LOSE & then LEAVE someone that wasn’t good for me…Thanks alot ladies!
Love Is Everything
maybe it was to learn how to love
maybe it was to learn how to leave
maybe it was for the games we played
maybe it was to learn how to choose
maybe it was to learn how to lose
maybe it was for the love we made
love is everything they said it would be
love made sweet and sad the same
but love forgot to make me too blind to see
you’re chickening out aren’t you?
you’re bangin’ on the beach like an old tin drum
I cant wait ’til you make
the whole kingdom come
so I’m leaving
maybe it was to learn how to fight
maybe it was for the lesson in pride
maybe it was the cowboys’ ways
maybe it was to learn not to lie
maybe it was to learn how to cry
maybe it was for the love we made
love is everything they said it would be
love did not hold back the reins
but love forgot to make me too blind to see
you’re chickening out aren’t you?
you’re bangin’ on the beach like an old tin drum
I cant wait ’til you make
the whole kingdom come
so I’m leaving
first he turns to you
then he turns to her
so you try to hurt him back
but it breaks your body down
so you try to love bigger
bigger still
but it…it’s too late
so take a lesson from the strangeness you feel
and know you’ll never be the same
and find it in your heart to kneel down and say
I gave my love didn’t I?
and I gave it big…sometimes
and I gave it in my own sweet time
I’m just leaving
love…
Princess,
don’t waste your breath wondering WHY, WHY, WHY. Shit happens to everyone and in this situation it was your turn. |The trick is to learn from this experience and move forward with your life. It is pointless to beat yourself up about poor choices you made, iof you knew better you would have chosen better. However now you know more, so move on and put it behind you. Anyone who is really living life makes mistakes..only dead people are free of mistakes.
Bee:
sooo True, sh!t happens!!! I’ve got to stop revisiting the (bloody-yellow tape-all over the place) ‘crime scene’ b/c guess what? It’s still the same nothing changed -ok well, the scene looks much worst in retrospect but the difference is I left, I got out and left that scene :).
Revisiting the crime scene over and over is what heads people into depression, trying over and over to understand why me…circular thinking where you never get out of the cycle of blame, asking yourself why then blame will only make you ill. Get your life back by having a positive focus on your life even the bad things were a learning even if you never know the reasons why.
Yes, that’s rite, I’m much happier when I do all the things that I love&enjoy, more at peace when spending more time with moi,me, myself &I. I enjoy building on my new life it’s much more important…I’m getting more focused&stronger each day*smiles*
This post hit close to the bone with me. I am ashamed to say i am a classic Florence and with my ex EUM/AC/CHEATER i thought if i hung on in there. Helped him find a job, gave him a place to live and money he would love me in return.. How wrong was I??? He still did stop him banging some other chick 3 months in. I am ashamed but i had doormat stamped on my head with this one. Can you believe he actually said he would do the same for me if the shoe was on the other foot.. All the while trying to sleep with me whilst w had broken up… That is a part of my life that i want to forget more out of shame and certainly not love for him. Shame lobotomies arent on the NHS as i would be first in the queue!
So here’s the question always going through my head – how do I distinguish between him coming to mind multiple times throughout the day because I spent 6 years with him and it’s just habit and him coming to mind because I’m not over him yet? I’m not going to date until I know the difference and I’m hoping I’ll just *know* but I’m really tired of him popping into my head anytime I see or hear something that reminds me of him. I don’t want him back, I’m not pining for him, I forgave him for myself a while ago and now I feel like I just need to rewire my brain. Does it just happen one day? November 1st will be 4 months since I moved out and I’m just so sick of him coming to mind. My therapist seems real keen on me dating again for some reason, but I’ve made it clear that I’m just not ready yet. Though she did say I don’t have to never be thinking about him again to be ready, I trust myself when my heart says “I’m not ready yet”. It would just be for validation and distraction at this point.
I used to be a FBG and OW but I have never had the symptoms of a healer/fixer. I have never helped a guy, never offered money or helping with his problems. Apart from this, I think I can tick almost all the symptoms of a FBG.
While reading the article I recalled an episode from college, when my EUM knocked at my door, drunk, on his birthday, at 3 am. I let him in (I Shouldn’t have) and I did not let him sleep with me in my bed. He slept alone, on the floor. 🙂 He was a heavy drinker and some of my friends told me I should do something to make him give up alcohol. I remember I told them that I didn’t want to make him a good catch for the next girl.
I could never be a “Florence” girl, helpless guys make me run fast. I can remember a lot of failed “first dates” when some guy started to bore me with EXs or other problems. Sometimes, in my relationship with the MM, I acted as a “shoulder to cry on”, but I was permanently rude and sarcastic about it. I used to laugh about his problems and now I’m glad I did it.
Ahh, as always, Ms. Natalie is spot on. I don’t believe that I am a Renovator or a Florence, but I have had it happen that a guy that I was not that interested in to begin with, and that I initially was just neutral about and forced myself to like, and who should have been on his knees thanking God for having found me, ended up being a player.
Now, bearing in mind that except for one guy, none of the ones I have dated were guys that were attractive, their behavior is all the more surprising. They were either short, dorky and heavy-set, or balding, or old, or impotent, or a combination of the foregoing. One of them was extremely unappealing in his personality once I got to know him better.
Their moral decay and lack of basic honor and human decency in interacting with a woman was not apparent until after a couple of months had passed since we started dating, although there were red flags.
The problem with red flags is that I find myself second-guessing my gut feeling. I start to wonder whether perhaps I am misinterpreting the meaning of what I am seeing as a red flag. I start to winder whether I am being too picky. I start to wonder whether if we bolt every time we see something that we consider a red flag, we might be missing out on a decent guy because we might have jumped to conclusions at what we saw, which could have a reasonable explanation not related to cheating.
Having said that, though, EVERY TIME that I have had a gut feeling that the guy was cheating, he was. And to add insult to injury all except for one of these cheaters was impotent, even with the pills! So what the heck could they have been doing with someone else that they couldn’t do with me. I am SUPER responsive sensually and sexually, so it definitely was not that I was one of those cold fishes out there.
I am astounded that guys are willing to experience the embarrassment of being impotent with yet another woman simply to get their sausage into a new oven. It’s disgusting!
As our society keeps getting more and more desensitized to bad behavior and to cheating due to television, “reality” shows, and most of all due to the Internet (Craigslist is pure crap), things will get worse for women. Ladies, keep your legs closed so that these guys don’t continue their arrogance and viewing themselves as God’s gift to women. That’s the only way things will…
“Any relationship or even the prospect of one, where there was some level of emotional investment takes some time to get over, but it’s safe to say that it can be awfully difficult to let go of a relationship that didn’t actually exist or what did, was as flimsy as a sandcastle built in the sky…. holding tight not only to the dream but a massive avoidance of rejection.”
Wow! That stung! It’s true. Whatever this ‘whatevership’ was that I was involved in. It was purely a sandcastle built in the sky. And now that I’ve been point blank rejected I’m dealing with that rejection and it hurts. I’ve also realized how my behaviour over the past few years can look clingy and last to last stalkerish, when my motives were completely not with that intent. I am in depression, seeking theraphy and wishing this tornado never hit me. I keep wondering what he’ll think when he’ll finally see my happy and the thought that he would be happy makes me not want to be happy. But that in its entirety is absouletly stupid…I deserve to be happy even if he’s happy for me and that makes me sick. Why would have I stuck around for a sandcastle in the sky relationship? And I do beleive I tried to meet others…. but maybe not an honest effort. How could have I been so dumb to think that this was going somewhere…. I’m an educated woman…or so I thought!
Kiss a true frog, and he might turn into a prince. Kiss a toad, and he’ll just pee on your hand. But, how to tell the difference?
Women generally don’t deliberately get involved with going-nowhere-fast men, but they’re particularly vulnerable to narcissistic jerks if they’ve had their boundaries bent early on. If this is the case, they have to face that original, parent-related damage before they can REALLY INTERNALIZE great advice.
Anyway. Didn’t mean to start psycho-babbling. I like this excerpt – thanks for posting it.
I haven’t figured out exactly what my issue is. I get in long term relationships, I get dumped without explanations. I don’t fix them, change them . I let them be themselves. What is worse I get dumped for heavy weight women. I start to feel like because I am small and petite I am not a woman, because I don’t have boobs. I have become a hermit, and turned off of the dating scene. Now at fifty, I am alone and think well this is my lot in life. I am not worthy of love