During the summer I had a run-in with a bonkers lady in my local shop. Like a typical convenience store, it has wide aisles but she yelled at me in front of customers staring in disbelief, for not saying “Excuse me” to her as I walked past. I didn’t see her, nor did I touch her and said this calmly to her and even apologised, which didn’t calm her. After telling her to stop shouting at me a couple of times and her gesticulating widely at me, I said “Please go home and take out your real problems on someone else” and walked away while she was yelling “What-e-ver darling”. Shaken, I went home and after venting to the boyf and thinking of a couple of things I wished I’d said, it was soon forgotten (until now!).
Just like in any other situation where you seek to have the last word, you have to wonder: What are you going to do? Have a stakeout? Keep calling/emailing/texting or showing up until you can speak to them? Tie them to a chair and force-feed them your opinions? Programme them to have anterograde amnesia where they only remember right up to the moment where you had the last word?
In the past it has bugged the hell out of me that I didn’t have the upper hand in a situation or get to have the last word, or I’d worry about what ‘everyone’ thought of me. A situation like the shop incident would have had me stewing or even wondering what she’d seen in me to behave like that, but to be honest, her disproportionate reaction had nothing to do with me. This was only further cemented by the fact that I’m not the only customer she’s had a go at…
With one particular ex, we both kept trying to have the last word for several months until I realised that each of these revisits to the ghosts of relationship hell past was only creating more questions not closure. It turned out that my ego didn’t need him to tell me that he was a dipstick no more than I needed everyone who had ever known the two of us together to think well of me.
I can rest assured that there’s a few exes out there and even their friends who may not think well of me – bothered-o-clock. Bearing in mind that I’ve lost sleep over this in the past and eroded my self-esteem over it, this is major progress.
The ‘last word’ doesn’t truly exist unless after you say whatever you have to say, they keel over and die.
Short of controlling all their thoughts or taping their mouth shut, there’s nothing to stop them saying or doing something else that technically gives them the last word. Trying to control what someone else thinks of you or even ‘everyone else’ is like trying to cup the ocean in your hands. Yes you can tell them all about themselves, yes you can hunt down everyone that knows you both and ‘correct’ their opinions, and yes you can make it your vocation to get a Ph.D in discovering and conveying the ins and outs of another persons actions, but why bother? They’ll probably think you’re on crack.
The last word is action.
That’s why so many people finally get the benefit of No Contact. There’s no point going to someone and saying “I’m a respectable woman” or “You can’t treat me like that” or even “You’re an assclown and I intend to ignore you forever more”, because all they hear is “I need your validation” or “I still want you”. They might even wonder who the hell you think you are. It says that whatever the bone of contention is, that it’s up for negotiation.
If you’re a respectable woman, you stop giving someone that disrespects you the time of day. If they can’t treat you like that, you’re no longer around for them to have the option of trying to treat you like that again or they experience negative consequences as a result. There’s certainly no point saying that they can’t treat you like that, if they have treated you like that and they in fact have treated you in a certain way time and again, because they quite obviously can. If you really are ignoring them, you wouldn’t be giving them a warning…unless you wanted to provoke a reaction.
Silence says many things – it says “I’m moving on, I’m done, you’re not worth my time and energy, I’m not engaging and the door is closed.” That’s how all of my exes that kept sniffing around knew that I wasn’t that woman anymore – I didn’t give them anymore airtime and they couldn’t get so much as a pubic hair through the proverbial door, never mind get their foot in it!
Often when we become obsessed with having the last word and being right, we put ourselves in the position of doing wrong by ourselves. If you know what someone is, you don’t need to convince them of it to convince you of it – trust your own judgement and validate you.
People who like to have the last word are actually looking for a reason to engage and/or have too much of their ego invested into the situation. Let it be or you will keep going around in circles, remembering this thing you should have said or that thing you should have done. Let your actions be your last word because ultimately, that’s what speaks volumes.
Your thoughts?
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I look forward to reading your post. Going through this situation no contact just shutup and ignore , and to my belief it has been bringing me so much peace. Yes its nothing but annoying because the thought of him is constantly in my head but I’m not stressed or tense because I’m not entertaining him! Anyways keep the post coming !!
And after a while Lanasia, the constant thoughts will recede. Believe it!
That is the thing though… HE is giving ME silence. That is how he broke up with me. No ‘I’m done’. No ‘I don’t want to be with you anymore’. Nothing. Just silence and I had to figure it out on my own.
It hurts like hell that someone could do that to someone they professed to love. And he’s already moved on. It has been 2 months since he did this and he’s been dating someone new for over a month now.
I know he doesn’t deserve the power I’m giving him… and I even had a friend tell me that the silent treatment is ALSO a tactic. That BECAUSE my ego has been hurt this way it all but ensures that when he does contact me again (and EVERYONE is sure he will… even this site says so) that I’ll stroke his ego and be the fallback girl. Given this I’m trying like hell to move on, be authentic etc etc… So that when he DOES contact me again I can at best ignore him completely and at worst tell him no way.
I know I deserve better.
Selina, your experience is very difficult – he’s broken up by disappearing which is a pretty shitty thing to do when you have a relationship with someone. There may be any number of reasons why he acted as he did but ultimately he’s avoiding conflict and the weight of what he perceives as the responsibility of your feelings. He may well come back – just keep in mind that anyone who will end it this way isn’t worth taking back. You will get past this and take care.
Hi Selina,
if disappearing was the only way he could manage to get out, then so be it. Disappearing is still better than staying indefinitely with an eye on disappearing later, which is who these guys are. Yet it’s a pretty shitty way to go about it, no matter what… My “”best male friend”” (that’s double double quotes to show how sarcastic I’m trying to be) also avoided the weight of the responsibility of my feelings by disappearing. That, plus he avoided me in the flesh, literally sneaked around for weeks to make sure he doesn’t run into me. Thanks to Natalie I never once called to ask why he isn’t calling, and for that I am proud of myself. When he reappeared, with an audacious poker face and an opening line ‘You look different!’ I was so furious I couldn’t have managed a conversation even if I’d tried. Ever since, every time he crosses my path, I still get ticked off that he had the nerve not only to go into hiding instead of properly parting ways, but to later reappear as if there’s nothing wrong with the picture.
Given time this will be true for you too, Selina: my entire life has improved so much with no contact and I am thankful that he disappeared. Who knows how much longer I would have kept on gritting my teeth to be the supportive, easygoing “friend” with benefits. If only he had disappeared about a year sooner, I would be even more content and confident by now. But I’ll get there. And so will you, Selina!
Selina,
I think this post is more about authentic communication via action, instead of the hollow words that we may use to seek change in another person, or make them see the error of their ways, or to make them see us in a certain light. Your ex is actually doing something much different than what Natalie is suggesting, because he’s not communicating anything that he needs to with you. Well, actually he did communicate something to you through his cowardly actions, but I doubt he knows it. A lack of action or a lack of words without explanation sounds like a well known tactic known as the silent treatment. The silent treatment is actually a form of psychological/emotional abuse and is only employed by emotionally immature individuals who don’t know how to effectively communicate. Emotionally mature adults know that problems don’t just disappear because we choose not to see them, and he will figure that out one day too, hopefully. I know you’re probably confused and hurt and a whole bunch of other emotions, but really in time you’ll realize that he’s doing you a favor, trust me I’ve been right where you are or somewhere close by. Do you really want a relationship with a manchild who clams up, shuts down, or disappears when there’s an issue? It’s a lot of work and you will continue to run into the same problem over and over and over because he won’t admit to himself that he actually has one. Someone who copes like that has probably been doing so long before he met you, and will likely continue on doing so after. This new woman that he’s with is probably gonna get a dose of the same thing at some point in time. Let him go back to his mother or some other woman who’s willing to put up with that nonsense while you move on to a man who’s ready and willing to have an adult relationship. If that’s what you truly want then that’s what you deserve. Good luck!
I guess I am employing the silent treatement but on another level: no contact. With my ex, I just said, I don’t think we should talk for a while, and I don’t anticipate talking to him ever again, despite recent events and he knows this. If he doesn’t he is stupid. He knows why I won’t talk to him. I have flirted with the idea of breaking no contact and telling him why I can’t talk to him: it is too painful, can’t move on with you in my life, etc. But I had the last verbal word but he had the last non-verbal word: blocking me on facebook after I unfriended him because I felt it left a window of communication open that needed to be closed. I know he thinks I am punishing him, but I am not. The temptation of talking to him is what kept me from having closure. Even though I am still confused about our relationship and he flat out lied to me (and now he is seeing someone else despite telling me, “I am not ready for a relationship” after being with me for almost a year) I see no need to talk to him because he is a coward in this respect and not worth my time. Is he scared of a 115 lb woman?!
He is doing you a favor. It sucks, and he is a shithead (can I say that here?). You need to find closure which is the hardest part as he left with no explanation. He is a man child and unfortunately there seems to more of them everyday. Just move on sweetheart. He is winning by you feeling like crap. Don’t give him that upper hand. Get the upperhand back by living your life without him in it. This is what will really get him. If he can’t deal with his problems and he is too scared to confront you, he is not worth your time. You lived without him before, you can do it again! Women don’t need men, they need us. (At least I like to think so).
I know exactly how you feel!I am going thru the same thing right now..No Goodbye,No nothing!!!It makes me wonder how these poeple sleep at night,with such little regard for the person who cared for them despite their issues!Today is the first day I did not cry,and I actually even smiled a few times!!I just keep thinking that i am better off without someone that does not respect me for the beautiful,fun,talented,uniquely amazing person I am…..
They will one day wake up,and realize this!!And by that time,Thier silence is all they will have!!!
Oh dear Selina and ladies,
I’ve never experienced the silent treatment as a break up strategy. It must be terrible and lots of hugs to you. As Natalie, Cavewoman, and Samatha said, it is tough to endure now but in the long run, you’ll be grateful if you can move on and kick their cowardly, unavilable arses to the curb should they attempt the friend card or, worse, attempt to hit the reset button. Resist the urge to have the last word, it is futile. I have done that to no avail, repeatedly. Keep hitting flush until the chunk is down. Natalie, that graphic image really helped me.
Your posts made me think about my own (un)availability and disappearing regarding a current situation with race car driver guy. We’ve never met. He contacted me via email a few times (through one of my students…amber flag) and we have spoken on the phone four times. He did not rely on text (only two) or email, and quickly upped cyberspace communication to telephone calls and called when he said he would. Our conversations were light, no exes. In our last conversation, I did inquire about his 20-something roomate (my student…he’s 48). He anticipated my questions and reassured me that it was strictly a roomate situation, although in the bubble above my head, I thought we’ll see. Then silence for 4 days, including this weekend. After spending one nano-second thinking that I said something wrong, I remembered my BR training and hit flush. This morning (Sunday), he called. I let it go to VM. No “busy” excuses on his message. Just wanted to know if I was feeling better and he left his number. Do I respond? Do I tell him that the 4 days of silence is a red flag for me? If this guy was interested in a date, this weekend was the window. Am I being cowardly and unavilable by not responding? I have absolutely NO interest in having the last word this time. I know I don’t owe him anything as we’ve never met but should I tell him “I’m not interested because the 4 day silence turned me off”? He didn’t say he’d call after we last spoke and doesn’t owe me a thing. Where’s the line between common courtesy, availability, unavailability, hitting flush, hitting flush too soon, and having the last word? What do I do, if anything?
Hi Runnergirl — Sounds a little weird to me. Who calls someone on a Sunday morning? (unless he was going to make a plan to get up with you later that day, which it doesn’t sound like). Maybe I’m overly suspicious, but a four-day silence, particularly around a weekend, makes me wonder if he has a girlfriend or is otherwise unavailable (as in shagging around). If all this talking is an “exploratory phase,” then you could probably talk to him again if he calls — but I wouldn’t call him (just me being overly cautious) or wait the four days it took for him to call you. Plus, what 48 year old lives with a 20-something? I know times are tough and living situations have had to adapt, but it still sounds strange to me (as in: does he not want to grow up? or having a mid-life crisis?). My intuition tells me something is off here, but that’s all I can say. Not sure if I was much help. Wishing you the best, as always! 🙂
Runner,
I’d be wondering why this guy has not asked to meet up with me already (I assume that would be easy enough?). Why the delay? If I “met” someone on-line (by whatever means) and he epressed an interest in me, I’d expect him to suggest lunch or a coffee ASAP! Is he too shy (at 40+ to ask to meet you (flag!), is he not sure if he wants to (flag?), is he not sure if you want to…argh! Flags! What’s his effin problem is what I’d be thinking (and if I’m thinking that I’m thinking – flag!).
I’d either ask him to meet up or ask him why he hasn’t already asked – but maybe the fact that I’m even wondering about what I should do would just annoy me, and since I can’t be doing with any more ‘annoyances’ I may well consider a straight flush! Something just doesn’t feel right – he should have asked to meet you by now – I’d even say after the first chat or two; that’s how people get to know eachother – in person, so why’s he not in a hurry to get to know you properly? That’s what I’d be thinking anyway.( also that you feel you need to put him on voice mail before you’ve even met him yet… eewww. Another option – let him wait five days then phone him back. If he doesn’t ask to meet up – flush him cos that’s just no use – you are a real live woman not a voice on the end of a phone or a pen pal – he should want to make contact with the live woman!
Runner – he wanted to know if you were feeling better about what? [Before I start imagining that he was under the impression that you were upset about his strictly roommates situation.]
You do nothing. Let the man chase you.
Thank you, thank you thank you. I needed a reality check.
Adrienne my thoughts exactly: “Plus, what 48 year old lives with a 20-something? I know times are tough and living situations have had to adapt, but it still sounds strange to me (as in: does he not want to grow up? or having a mid-life crisis?).” I don’t know him but based on our limited conversations, he likes hanging with 20-somethings. The 4 day silence around the weekend was enough for me.
Oh Fearless you so summed it up: “Is he too shy (at 40+ to ask to meet you (flag!), is he not sure if he wants to (flag?), is he not sure if you want to…argh! Flags! What’s his effin problem is what I’d be thinking (and if I’m thinking that I’m thinking – flag!).” That’s it precisely and exactly what I was thinking. Too many flags, way too early. “but maybe the fact that I’m even wondering about what I should do would just annoy me, and since I can’t be doing with any more ‘annoyances’ I may well consider a straight flush!” It’s just got flags and annoyances everywhere. I’m not the least bit interested in chasing him. Been there and done that.
Cavewoman, I was sick with a minor cold last weekend when we talked on the phone. I was on the mend by last Sunday and just had a cough on Tuesday. Nothing major. Just the run of the mill sniffles. Nothing that would require a 4 day silence.
I don’t want to be Ms. Unavailable but there’s a line. Thank you for helping me see the line. I knew it but needed a little reinforcement since I’ve never heeded the neon flags before now. If I’m still interested in five days, I may phone him but he’s already burned up way too much print. Thank you. This dating thing is going to be different after BR.
Used
I agree. Yes, it’s oldfashioned and I can understand why some think it’s sexist. But men have more testosterone than us for a reason. And it’s not so they can sit back and watch women tie themselves in knots over whether or not he’s interested.
runner
The big picture here is that there has been too much phone time and not enough face time. It needs to move to a meeting soon or it starts to become a fantasy relationship and we know how that goes. You’re already in a rocky place where you’re not dating but have expectations. That is not a good place for us ex FBGs to be.
There is no absolutely right or wrong thing to do, or the EXACT period of time that is acceptable between phonecalls. Listen to your gut.
Race Car Guy just called again, Sunday evening at 9:00 pm. Where was Race Car guy on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday? I can see how, in the past, I would overlook his disappearance and be totally on board when he finally got some time. Not so much now. So, I’m figuring that maybe I get back to him next Thursday? Maybe?
Runnergirl, I didnt like him from the very first time you wrote about him. The fact that a 48 yr old man lives with a 20 yr old roommate would be enough to turn me off. I see that as a major red flag, I also dont like the idea that someone his age even needs a roommate whether its to pay the bills or just doesnt want to live alone.
Grace always sums up in a few words what takes me the whole character allowance to say – so runner here’s what I think is a real problem:
“The big picture here is that there has been too much phone time and not enough face time.”
Until you get the “face time” he is effectively a stranger and I’d be pretty disenchanted with him leaving it so long – unless you want to be his phone pal? I agree with othe comments too about a 48 year old needing to have 20 year old flat-mates; something stinks all round.
Hi Runner! I wouldn’t read too much into it just yet. It’s possible he may have had plans in place for the weekend before you started talking. If he doesn’t initiate plans soon, I’d flush. Don’t stress too much over it – you haven’t met him in person yet, so if it doesn’t work out, it’s no big deal. I say this as a Recovering Drama Addict myself 😉
Runner,
Further to what SM has said…. Just to say that the first time I really started to feel uneasy in my last relationship was when I noticed how my then-52-year-old partner was around the 20-somethings at the flying club. To be fair he was an instructor, and his teenage daughter was friendly with them, but there was something in his manner around them that didn’t feel quite right and made me begin to feel insecure. Apart from what turned out to be his penchant for a lot of contact with attractive ladies of *all* ages (i.e. his online Skype/FB/email/IM harem), one of the main relationship killers for us in the end was his childishness and lack of emotional maturity. I would be very cautious about a middle-aged man who hangs out more often with 20-somethings that he does with friends who are nearer his own age.
I don’t know the answer except to say I think you have decide what is acceptable FOR YOU. To some it wouldn’t matter at all, and for some, it really would. If it matters to you that he didn’t call for four days, that’s all you need to know. It’s REALLY IMPORTANT for you to trust you.
But if it helps, if I liked someone, it would be too long for me.
Hi runner,
You’ve gotten a ton of feedback on this guy – my main reaction is to notice how you don’t yet seem to trust YOU. This would be my main reason for saying whoa. Because YOU don’t seem ready. From your posts, aren’t you still sorting out the fallout from MM and realizing new things through Nat’s book “every 5 pages”? If that’s the case, how do you feel ready to make decisions?
Let me play devil’s advocate for a second, and trust that you consider me, Magnolia, on your side from the history of dialogue between us. We all notice that this guy is in his 40s and has a 20something roomie, and that he went through this person to indicate interest, all of which you wrote about (and therefore noticed yourself) in your first post about him. You’re in your 50s. There’s no right answer, but I’m curious as to why you need a committee to help you with this one? We can’t judge these guys (in their 40s, 50s, 60s who show indirectness and behaviour that seems ‘weird’) too harshly when we in our 40s and 50s and 60s keep looking for the green flag in the sea of ambers.
Also a flag to me – you wrote: “4 days of silence is a red flag for me.” You expect a guy you’ve never met in person to keep calling you every day? Ladies, jump on me if I’m not seeing this clearly. But I feel it makes sense to BUILD to every day contact (which I do want with the right person) and that this only makes sense to me after I’ve agreed I’m someone’s gf. Anyone who expects me to call every day, even after a few dates, when we’re uncommitted seems a bit fast-forwardy.
All in all, this guy’s approach has put you in the position to ask these questions. I don’t know if you remember the last dude that asked me out with big long gaps in between. His behaviour was ‘weird’ from the get-go and stayed so. It took me three dates to decide that my original take was reliable. I don’t care how long or how many tries it takes you, but I hope you’re aiming for getting to the point of trusting your instinct, not aiming to get it ‘right’. None of us can really help with the esteem issue – ie. you needing to hear from the outside that you’ve read a situation correctly.
Mag, I totally agree with you about building the frequency of contact. One of my friends tried to set me up with a guy that I had never met before (they all live in the neighboring state, about an hour away). We know a lot of the same people, so I was fine with him friending me on Fbook. I had fun Fbook emailing with him a few times and then he asked for my phone number. We spoke on the phone and that was fine, but then it became him calling me every single day. Personally, I don’t have a ton to talk about with someone I’ve never met and would rather chat with them in person to get to know them, so I would return the call the next day. He called me one night when I was on a weekend trip with friends. Two days later he sent me a text asking why he hadn’t heard from me. I was honestly annoyed. I thought (and ladies, you free reign to jump on me as well if this is wrong), “I’ve never even MET you, so who are you to get annoyed with me for not calling back in the timeframe you’ve set for me?”
In any event, my friend railroaded me into meeting this guy when I went to visit and he was a complete ass. It was a group thing and he sat there criticizing how much food the ladies were putting away. It took all my strength not to yell, “I weigh 103 lbs. and you are clearly overweight. Shut your trap.” Even my friend that INSISTED I meet him said she couldn’t believe how obnoxious and rude he was. The point I’m building to for Runner is the same as Mag’s – trust your instincts, keep your expectations in check and don’t be afraid to trust your gut. *Big Hugs*
Selina, good on you for being strong.
I’ve been through the same thing. The guy did it about 3 times (disappear then appeared then disappeared again etc). I wished that I had come across this blog 12 years ago. I wished that I didn’t try to stay friends and wished that I had look at his actions rather than believe his excuses. I wished that I just accepted that he was just not the man I had imagined him to be. It does hurt like hell not just because you cared so much for this person but because you realised he didn’t care at all. Just imagining how he thought about it and then just didn’t give any other second thought to how I would feel when he disappeared.
Most of all I wished that I had stop asking “why”, wished I stopped refusing to accept the reality that he was (to me) heartless and didn’t waste my time and energy trying to have the last word. so good on you because hopefully you will have less regrets than I do. keep strong and don’t let him hurt you again ever.
Thanks for all of your replies guys. I apologize but I forgot to check back to see if there were any.
I’ve actually played Relationship Insanity with this man for 5 and a half years. Every 5-6 months he would break up with me and right when I was on the verge of getting over him, he’d reel me back in.
This last time I thought it was ‘different’. I initiated NC (telling him that I was of course) but 2 months later when he contacted me and told me how much he missed me I unfortunately took the bait.
I never in a million years thought he would turn around and do this to me. And you guys are right. He is horrible at conflict or whatever. I had no idea there was anything even wrong.
It is still a daily battle trying to get over the fact that he did this to me. Did this to someone he professed to love. I find it hard to accept that there are people in the world that would do this…
I love having the last word,lol. Only make it a positive not a negative. Wish them well, happiness etc and then close the door. Even if they have treated you in a manner that you would not treat anyone else, wish them well with a smile on your heart. Leave the way you would want someone to treat you. If nothing else it can make you feel better about yourself.
With regard to your situation Nat, I have had someone else do exactly the same to me. After I apologized and said I hadn’t seen her, she ranted that that was the problem, no-one saw her. While her behavior was outrageous, unexeceptable and unwarranted towards me, I could understand her
breaking point, (especially if she had been dealing with one of the crazy making EU/asswipes that we have dealt with), we have all had those times where we haven’t been seen. Still outrageous reaction though.
I suppose Jaydee it’s what taking the high road looks like! I think sometimes there’s nothing left to say good, bad or indifferent. I’ve never wished ill on any of my exes but to be honest with you, none of them needed my blessing either no more than I needed theirs. Some peoples last word is indeed trying to say something nice because they want to be thought well of. You can wish someone well without having to say directly to them “I wish you well”
This reminds me of a farside cartoon of a man talking to his dog:
“Ginger, you stay out of the garbage. You bad dog Ginger, I’ve just about had enough!!”
This is what Ginger hears:
“Ginger …blah blah bah blah blah Ginger blah blah”
He’s not listening!
If one of my exes chased me down and started telling me my many faults I ‘d be thinking “Wow, this guy really loves me. Must be cos I’m so beautiful and unforgettable”. I might also be thinking “What a nutter”. I would NOT be thinking “Oh, x is so right, I’m so glad he has taken the trouble to tell me all about myself. I must change and then update him regularly on my progress with due humility”.
And I am not a particularly bigheaded person or an AC, really I’m not.
So true Grace! I’ve had a few exes get in touch to convey their point of view and try to change my perception because they assume I’m thinking about them. I really wasn’t so when they did start wittering on, I too heard ‘blah blah blah’! Much as it would be quite interesting for us to have the power to make judgements on people that impact their lives or ordain them with our blessings, that’s not our job.
“Much as it would be quite interesting for us to have the power to make judgements on people that impact their lives or ordain them with our blessings, that’s not our job.”
Totally agree Nat and Grace! It’s absolutely the same thing as the guys that didn’t treat us very well calling us up trying to get us to tell them they are “great guys”. I wanted to say to my ex, “I’m not Minister Natasha or Rabbi Natasha. I can’t sit there and say, ‘I now pronounce you a great person.'” I don’t even have the desire to, because I learned a boatload of lessons from the relationship and let it go. If you have a clean conscience about your involvement with someone and you see whatever mistakes you made, have forgiven yourself and moved on, you don’t even have the desire to get the good ol’ last word.
I am really going thru a tough time..I am 41 years of age and have been in a relationship with a guy for 5 months..The way we met was a meant to be thing.At first he was great,attentive,supportive,called,it was great!
In a month or 2 he started to change,I am guilty of being a tad needy and needed a bit of validation,but he would VERY angry if I ever needed to talk about things..He broke up with me Twice,slammed the door in my face,said terrible things to me….Anger issue bigtime which he even knows..We got back together,and things were fine,He is a workaholic,and his body is wearing out on him,We used to have great sex,and then nothing,I asked hhim about it and he said he was just tired…Which I accepted,but our time together was getting few and far between…Now 2 weeks ago,he came over after work we went for supper and things were fine,he called the nextday,and said I will call you on Sunday,he never did,I called Monday night no response.I called tues morning again no response,so I emailed him.I aked if he was ok,and that I worried about him..Heres what I got….I am fine,just busy,quit ^*^*&^*^*calling me…
And that was it…I have emailed,called,all to no avail….I am so hurt and angry….
I will tell you this…He HATES his mother,and the has only had one LTR and is 44,His relationship ended because she wanted kids and he did not,she moved on a found someone new,and in his mind she was cheating,and sent an email to all the people she worked with,her family,his family,and feels Good about it…Can you say Vindictive!!!Please any advice on moving on would be great,however after I read my own words,I should probably know!!!
Brenda
My alarm went off again – “meant to be”. This is how we get into dodgy situations – we think that the universe has gifted us with a man and we put him on a pedestal. No, no, no. You were two separate people, living separate lives, who happened to meet and will find out about each other at a steady pace, and progress to a serious relationship if that suits you both, OR NOT. When you give yourself over to “fate” and “this is the one”you may as well pin a note with “KICK ME” to your blouse.
You need to work on your boundaries. A key one for me is “No cancellations, no broken appointments unless someone has died”. And I rank “I will call you Monday” as an appointment. How would it go down at work if you promised to call a client and didn’t? This boundary alone will flush 90% of time wasters within three months, most of them sooner.
Yes, you know what to (hint: drop him, no need to have the last word. It’s just an opportunity for him to be horrid to you. Again.)
Couldn’t agree more, Grace! My last relationship was very much an “it must have been fate that we met up again after 15 years” thing (a fluke series of events predicated by the death by suicide of my previous ex). I got so seriously burnt by this last relationship that I sincerely hope I have now learnt my lesson about abandoning myself to fate. In doing so, I really did end up *literally* abandoning myself to the point where it very nearly cost me my health!!
Brenda, I read your comment and it doesn’t sound like an advertisement for a great catch but it does read like a recipe for disaster. This has been a three month relationship of which 2/3 has been pretty sketchy to say the least. Any man who hates their mother is going to have relationship struggles and you probably don’t see it yet, but you’re actually getting an early opt out opportunity. Take it. Grab it with both hands and run and stop trying to take water from an empty well. It’s not you being ‘needy’ that has caused him to be this way; he was this way *anyway*. It’s not you – he’s a very screwed up vindictive asshole. What he did to his ex is not even the beginnings of normal and is indicative of a very dark side.
Thank you so much for your Response,I know you are 100% right..I am a very loving nuturing person to everyone but myself!!This is where I need to work on things..I knew there were red flags…Hell he could say”Hi nice to meet you I am red flag”!!!I guess I choose not to see it at all…I am just having the hardest time trying to figure out how people can just Dissapear!How they cannot be accountable for thier actions?I keep telling myself he is not deserving of me,does not care,and it makes it a bit easier..I am not an angry person,but I feel anger and hatred at times for this AC..Do I need to forgive?I know that coming here has become a bit of an addiction for me,I love reading and learning….
Wow Brenda! I think someone with issues that haven’t been worked out with thier mother and the behaviour you have described sound like huge red flags. Unfortunately, the chances of it getting better don’t seem very high, and it looks like the first two months were only the honeymoon period. Now that the first blush of the relationship has worn off and you are seei the real man, you seem to experiencing anxiety , confusion, and disappointment already, only a few months in. You were fair and have tried to talk to him about your concerns, only to be shut down. This sudden disappearance act could actually be a blessing in disguise. Don’t let him manage down your expectations of a relationship and how you expect to be treated!
Jas
Thanks so much.
I can be honest when I say I have not had the greatest relationships!I tend tobe a doormat for most people…Mabye I want to be loved so bad that I take what ever crumbs they throw me..
These guys are just so damn cunning!!!
I swear to God this Guy has a seriuos Mental Problem..His Moods are up and down,when he is in a good mood he is generous,funny,caring…And poof in a instance he is a major ass!!About a month ago the Dr had put him on some meds for arthritis,but when I read the box it was an anti depressant…You know I found him more balanced,not so moody…But when he was done them he never went back for more,and thats when I saw Major changes…
I called his step mom as I was worried about him,and thier big thinh is Thats just the way he is!!!Like thats supposed justify his Behavior..I refuse to call and beg,I have done that,and feel so degraded….But I have to forgive myself…You are all right,I really am lucky he choose to dissapear..This would have gone on and on….
Dear Brenda,
I’m so sorry you are going through a tough time. It’s not your fault. I totally agree with grace. Unfortunately I have been sucked in by the “meant to be” feeling and the EUM/AS of my life had used “fate” as his excuse why we didn’t end up together (even though he disappeared and appeared 3 x and now realised I was just the fallback girl even though he again he kept saying I was “the one”). They are so good with excuses and making you feel like you’re the one with the problem. Like it’s your fault that they are the inconsiderate horrible men that they are.
He did you a favour by just disappearing because he sounds like he was seriously going to damage you if he had stayed. Please remember that if you fear a guy then he’s no PRINCE CHARMING. Nothing you say or do would help this guy’s issue. It sounds pretty serious. Stay away. He doesn’t care. He doesn’t want to talk. He doesn’t want to listen. It hurts that he just disappeared but it would hurt even more if he stayed and is still verbally and emotionally abusing you.
Amen! I thought it was my duty to get in the last word and to let everyone that thought my assclown was such a nice guy, how wrong they were and how I had the upper hand! What a waste of energy and time. My ending it, not looking back and taking my life in a far better direction was all I need do.
Everything you have posted on this site has made me realize I was not the only one that had these feelings and thoughts and that I did deserve better! From the articles on boundary violations, and there were tons of em..to making excuses like : “well, he hasn’t done that yet” or “when he does this, I’m done” to the ” what if he is a better person with her? ” fear and even the ” is he thinking about me?” posts, I have learned so much about myself. Especially that an assclown is an assclown is an assclown and wondering, pondering, wishing, won’t change them. I am in the NC period for over a week now and it has been the easist thing I have ever done since reading your blog. It gave me my power back!
Thank you for everything you have written and keep it up! You are awesome Nat!
Hi Finally Caught On – that is great and well done! I’m glad to be of help and congratulations on snatching your power back!
Nat,
I feel the same way as finally caught on and most of these people who come to your blog. After 12 years of on and off NC and hitting rock bottom this year and finally realising I have serioius issues to still be so emotionally attached to the AC of my life and to have nearly sabotage my life and to have gone against my core values and to have put myself back there —I came across this blog soon after I have cut contact again I’m hopeful that this time I can do the NC for life (it’s been 4 months) and this has really really helped me understand what it was all about and how he worked and how I thought about me to have put up with it and to have kept believing. i also liked that you not just explained about the EUM AND AC but also you tell us straight what we need to work on ourselves and take responsibility for our own actions and decisions.
thank you Nat and thanks to everyone who shares their experience and their own wisdom.
If your a respectable woman, you stop giving someone who disrespects you the time of day. I love that! It took me awhile to get there but after allowing myself to be a doormat to my ex AC just said enough, had it, give it to someone else and leave me alone. It feels great and going on 3 months of NC. I fell in love with this man and the sex was OMG so food but I keep reminding myself that (as someone said on this site) don’t know one women yet that has died of the dreaded disease LOC (lack of cock). Natalie, you have been a godsend to me. When I feel weak I come here and read your posts and these comments and both give me strength and they validate that what I did was the best thing for me even though my heart told me otherwise.
FinallyDidIt – your comment made me snort with laughter especially when you accidentally called the sex ‘food’. Seriously there is no sex in the world worth selling your soul for.
LOC (lack of cock). This gives me major life. LMAO.
It makes me red-faced to say, I totally analyzed one guy’s motives in my last few “last letters.” (Yep, “this is the last letter, oh wait, there is one more”) He probably thought I was crazy. I don’t care what he thinks of me now, because I’m NC for good, and out of that situation.
How true it is, what you said, “Let your actions be your last word because ultimately, that’s what speaks volumes.” Love it! Thanks for the encouragement.
I love that “last few letters”! Stick to Unsent Letters as you can write out your anger without opening yourself up to any further discomfort with them. You will be fine and when the red face calms, remember you’re only human and that we all want to be heard but let’s start with listening to ourselves first.
“……..remember you’re only human and that we all want to be heard but let’s start with listening to ourselves first.”
Thanks for this Nat!! That’s all I ever wanted. Actually when I was younger I was trying to “change” and “control”, but as I did my work, I just wanted to be heard. Was never heard as a child and realized this last year that my mother’s family still tries to tell me what I should think and feel, and am NEVER heard – everything taken put of context for their agenda – so I went NC – wow – 45 years and I am free of my mother’s “sick” family!! Yeah!!
Also still free from the AC as well!!! Working on not being “the woman who talks too much”!!!!
Great post Natalie,
Not having the last word makes you realize that it’s over. For me it was an actualization of a firm decision to move on.
If you let go of the need for last words you actually let go of the need for validation from outside – which is a major move forward. Yeah, being OK with letting them think whatever they want is actually cutting the power they have (had) over your. Very hard to do, very efficient when done.
“Not having the last word makes you realize that it’s over. For me it was an actualization of a firm decision to move on.” Exceedingly well said EB.
EB, I concur with Nat, very well said. Thanks for that comment; it has really centred something for me.
In my past relationships (pre my current struggle ending it with the recent Mr EUM) I have always sensed the final *it’s over now* when I stopped the all the woulda, coulda, shoulda said this and woulda, coulda, shoulda said that – all swirling around in my head. The longer I said nothing to the guy (NC) the more pointless anything I thought I might want to say became, and when that happens you know it’s finished; you know you’re finished.
When you stop fighting with yourself about whether or not you might, maybe, kinda still one day maybe want to say something else to him, even if that’s just all going on in your head – when you give that up is when you realise it’s over, and it creeps up on you. That’s been my experience in the past and I think I am at about at that point now with this ex EUM thing.
But I see better – and Nat’s post and your comment has brought it home to me – that we can make that point come faster by letting the last word go. Just letting it go. Cos once the need or obssessing over all those last words, all the anger and frustration of what coulda shoulda woulda still be said is put to rest, then the whole thing is put to rest and so moving on can actually happen. Yay. Me getting it now.
Have a wonderful BR birthday party Natalie. (unfortunately am too far away from London or would def. have wanted to come) – congrats on new book! (Haven’t read it yet but I will!). Thank you so much for you and for BR! I dread to think how I’d have coped without. (I am not a lost cause. I am getting there. I’m not giving up my fight for me and for better things for me, and you and BR have given me that determination. Thank you.)
Fearless,
Thanks for your kind and honest words.
Yeah…These things aren’t easy. I meet my ex unavailable woman (married) every day (same building..), But as you wrote:
“The longer I said nothing to the guy (NC) the more pointless anything I thought I might want to say became…”.
Well, I think it’s exactly like that.
Stay strong and give yourself credit for making a healthy decision (which is about YOU). Time will take care of the rest.
🙂
EB
Yes I wanted the last word when he left but I didn’t get it and was royally pissed about it until I found this site and learned that NC is the last word. Silence does say so much.
I’ve missed you MaryC!
Oh, yes, I know this feeling! I know how much we want to say it, to be heard, but… I realized that these EUM s have so little self esteem, maybe even less self esteem than we think we have that they also need our validation.
We don’t need to do them a favor by telling them what were their mistakes, we don’t have to give them any explanations about our decisions, we don’t have to make them our friends.
They need us to say ” Oh, you treated me poorly, but I still love you” so they can feel better about themselves. Oh, no, they don’t deserve a word, they don’t deserve to hear ” You hurt me”. They only deserve to be forgotten and ignored.
I think we do indeed give too much of our energies to these people and ultimately, we have to give that energy to ourselves. At some point you’ve got to say ‘Enough!’ I remember feeling tormented by pursuing the last word with my ex with the girlfriend. When I stopped, it was weird initially but I got caught up in my own life that it didn’t matter.
I think you’re right. But I think that sometimes we start out with good intentions when we do this, or at least we think we do. Sometimes you can feel so hurt, angry, disappointed, or whatever that you just want to give that negative energy to the person who you think put those feelings there, and making them feel that way in the process wouldn’t hurt either lol. But what ends up happening is that even if you do go off on them or tell them about themselves, it only feels satisfying temporarily, because part of those negative feelings we do actually attribute to our own choices and actions, consciously or otherwise. And we end up seeing that person as the source of the problem, instead of looking in the mirror. Even though someone may have hurt us, no need to give them the satisfaction of letting them know they had that kind of power at any point in time…
“Forgotten” and “ignored” can’t coexist, unfortunately. You ignore specifically BECAUSE you can’t forget.
And they do know that their behavior hurts. A lot.
As much as I have always had my self-respect when dealing with the AC and all of the people who have known us, whenever I see him, I feel very sad. Almost to the point of tears. And I don’t even know why! I can’t put my finger on it! And this sadness I (still) feel even when others (our mutual friends) aren’t around (and I don’t know if their not being around bears any significance). And I feel the sadness more fully when he is just going about his business and doesn’t even know I am at the party or at the event we are both attending yet. I know it’s not because I miss him or want him–this goes without saying. And I don’t feel this sadness with the friends with whom I no longer speak and who have known both of us. (And many friends we had in common I still see, even though they are even closer with his wife.) So, (1.) why the sadness to begin with? and (2.) why still? NML?
Hi Nat
I have found no contact is two things.
Self protection from further hurt and, like the silent treatment (A form of Abuse while in a relationship ), it tells the other person they are nothing and not worth wasting your energy on.
I find your Posts very helpful
Thanks Nat
Paul
Very true Paul. Particularly with narcissists who thrive off collecting attention, not engaging cuts them off at the knees as it dilutes their power. That’s why the only option with them is to distance yourself or cut them off.
I love this, it is exactly true. Took me a long time to get over the guilt of cutting him off and realize that NC actually was my last word. That he wasn’t worth an ounce more of my energy. While it was very very hard for several months it actually became my power. I think that he probably hates me because I’m sure it was quite a blow to his ego, but I don’t care. I used to. Now I realize that I’m better than that and it was me in fact that was too good for him. He can go on thinking whatever he wants.
Hit the nail on the head! My job requires that I fulfill certain duties for others on the floor I work on. There is one person I am trying to figure out a way to be around her. Last year she bit my head off with this shit response when I asked if she needed help. Immediately I thought I’d done/said something wrong. I stupidly asked her if I said or did anything wrong. She would not even look at me. She just kept saying “i’m really stressed out. I’m really overwhelmed.” I think she was aggravated at me because I was in another co-worker’s office talking, then went to ask if she needed help. (she and her PAL gab EVERY SINGLE DAY so why it would aggravate her that I am doing it….goo figure) Ever since then, I’ve been extra cautious around her. It is a kind of throw back to childhood. When someone gets short with me or is rude, I recoil. Wondering what I did wrong. She could not/would not give me a straight answer. Frankly, I don’t like her. And it bothers me that I have to do work for her. This means I have to see her.
Lately I have been absolutely swamped with a project at work and it has consumed me almost completely. I have had to neglect helping her as much (though there is someone else (her buddy) that helps her). I hit a slow patch and went into her office asking where something was that I was going to work on for her. She got short and snippy and as she is walking out the door, never looking at me, she says she has already done it that she can not wait around. Meaning she can not wait around on me because I am doing MY OWN JOB. She was saying this with her back to me as she is going down the hall. I was so pissed! Disrespectful! I didn’t say anything but rolled my eyes. So I have had it. I have had it with her being passive aggressive. I do not care if she does not like me. I have always been nice to her (maybe that is my problem) and never said a cross word. I feel like if I am nice to her anymore it is saying it is ok that she was/is a rude b*tch to me. Because she doesn’t do that with anyone else coming in and out of her office. I can hear her talking to others nicely. When I had to go in there today, I just dropped off what i needed to and said nothing. I don’t ask a question unless I absolutely have to. The only option i know of anymore is to ignore her.
color
I’ve not read it, but this may be helpful:
Everything you describe is fairly “normal” in offices. We’ve all been in similar situations. It’s not about you. It will happen to everyone. I will even go as far as to say YOU’VE probably annoyed/ hurt people at work to, even if it’s inadvertently. I know I have.
Don’t be nice, just be professional and take the high ground. She says “I’ve done it, I was too busy to wait for you”. You say “Oh, I’m sorry I didn’t realise. Let me know when something urgent comes up and I’ll make time for it”. If she mutters something while walking away from you … you didn’t hear it. If they can’t be arsed to tell me like an adult, or even a child, I don’t take it on board.
When I was frozen out at work, I was very upset. Then I just ignored it all, realising that I wasn’t going to let playground politics dictate my life. Over months, without any showdown or discussion, I now get on better with everyone. We learned to respect each other and our differences. This may not happen with the diehard idiots, in which case assess if you can live with it or move on. If you make a choice for your job (not just “I have to do this to pay the bills”) you’ll be able to handle these difficulties. You just feel … better. Not like someone who is being blown about by other people’s whims and moods because you’re trapped.
Oh I am sure I have done/said something that has rubbed others the wrong way there. That’s likely since I’m human lol. My point is to show myself that I can handle this without getting upset. Because when I am upset, I cry. I’ve spent many occasions in the ladies room shedding some tears. The dynamics in the workplace baffle me sometimes. Not to say that anyone else is wrong. We all have our stories and perspectives we’re coming from, but JEEZ it all seems so dysfunctional. I’ll be darn proud of myself once I get this. Once I get that I CAN be an adult about something and not a crying child. If she wants to be passive and rude about it or gossip to so-and-so about it, fine. My mental state of being is much more important to me now than some chump.
I put the book on my Amazon wishlist. Thank you.
That type of behaviour would get on my tits too Colorange and I’m glad that you see things as something separate from you. I wholeheartedly agree with Grace’s advice. I found in the workplace, maintaining your composure, being professional, not trying to root out the issue and basically being a reasonable person tends to cause them to adjust. I worked with someone like her. When she realised I wasn’t going to do a Dallas reenactment with her, she saved that shite for someone else.
Nah, there won’t be a Dallas showdown. I don’t care who shot Dallas in this episode. You know how much of my life I’ve spent trying to analyze and pick apart other people’s behaviors and how I could possibly contort myself enough to please them? Too Long. We’re on equal ground here. Neither of us is better than the other. I’ve been thinking about it on the back burner, but I am more serious about finding work elsewhere. Not to run away but to work in an environment that is closer to what I enjoy doing. Which will be interesting considering I do not have a degree in what I want to do! And going back to school NOW is financially out of the question.
Color, you never know! I ended up doing what I’m doing now because I started as a secretary at the company. If you’re willing to do something like that and really want to learn, trust me, enthusiasm is infectious and people will be more than happy to show you the ropes and give you guidance (for free!). Hope this helps!!
p.s. The Dallas references have me giggling! My Dad used to let me sneak that show when my Mom was out at her book club – it’s not like I knew what the heck was going on anyway. All I knew was, I wanted to be Lucy Ewing. I had something about this in an Fbook status once and one of my guy friends was like, “Girl, you basically ARE Lucy Ewing.” I wish I could make that kind of commitment to eyeshadow 😉
“There’s certainly no point saying that they can’t treat you like that, if they have treated you like that and they in fact have treated you in a certain way time and again, because they quite obviously can. If you really are ignoring them, you wouldn’t be giving them a warning…unless you wanted to provoke a reaction.”
Oh Aaaaaamen Nat! My Dad gives very succinct advice that cuts right to the heart of the matter. When I’ve complained to him about my ex in the past, he’s looked at me like I was from another planet (Planet DAMN GIRL. Get On The Reality Train.), said, “He’s a jackass.” and offered me a cookie.
When I was in full-on “Whyyyyyyyyyy meeeeeeee?!” in the early days of NC, he said to me, “Natasha, say nothing. Saying nothing actually says loud and clear, ‘I think you’re a moron and an asshole and I can’t even waste my breath on you.’ I’ve met many morons and assholes in my lifetime and this is really the only effective mode of communication.”
p.s. Nat, congrats on the book delivery today! I sense a Best Seller 🙂
Thanks Natasha!
Your dad is right because at the end of the day we can put bells, whistles and long drawn out stories around it, but it can literally be summed up in a few words. They’re unavailable. They’re an assclown. You’re incompatible. You’re better than *this*.
True story Nat! I went on a godawful date this week (classic “I bought you a fancy dinner and you’re not going home with me?! How dare you.”) and I didn’t even feel the need to go into details with my girlfriends. I was just like, “Meh. He was an idiot.” It’s almost as if I’ve used up my Bad Behavior Dissection Quota in the past year – fine by me 🙂
This is exactly what I needed, thank you so much Natalie! When I recently broke NC the other week I thought he was reaching out in a genuine way, with a real apology and a proper interest in maintaining things between us. I convinced myself of that until I broke it.
His NC (aka ‘I’ll be away until I need an ego stroke/shag and then I’ll pop up like a bad smell’) wasn’t any of that, it was him throwing the line out, saying ‘Well I just want to see if you’re still hanging around’ and putting it in warmer tones.
The temptation to temporarily suck it and see just to engineer a situation where I can get the last word (tell him about himself, strut off bitchily into the distance) has been overwhelming, and normally I’d have broken down and provoked him.
Now I’m getting away from that urge with baby steps, because it really wasn’t a dramatic last word like something out of a Western, it was just another excuse to beat a dead horse and bend over backwards for his scraps that I would use for validation and approval.
I made a tiny move yesterday towards having the last word as silence (totally miniuscle, it’ll mean nothing to him) but to me it’s major because it’s a last word that’s unspoken–it’s action.
More fool of me for believing his sob stories, lies and pleas of being ‘so busy’ and prolonged absences that culminate in him scuffing his feet and looking remorseful like a schoolboy, and me breaking down and accepting his theatrics. But at least now I know conclusively that it’s all a ploy to keep me hanging and leave things in the status quo–which is him dragging me behind him and treating me like cr*p, which I would accept totally for the temporary thrill of having him interested in me, relentless ego-stroking and optioning of me until there are NO boundaries, values or even enjoyment left in this thing.
I really hope that I’ll have the strength now and always to leave my “last word” as action.
Hi D, the key is mentality and how you voice it.
“I really hope that I’ll have the strength now and always to leave my “last word” as action.” are the words of someone that isn’t confident in her power and if caught on an off day could be talked into not having the strength.
“I will be strong from now on and will leave my “last word” as action.” are the words of resolve and conviction about your future intentions. Stay strong, be strong.
Hi Nat
These posts seem to come at the right time.
I stopped contact with me ex ( quite a bit younger than me ) about 2 years ago.I have been stuck with the pain for a long time because I gave up everything for him and he treated me very badly whilst telling me he loved me right up until the end -words without deeds.
I saw a message on the internet from someone I used to know and I had to join facebook to reply to the message.When I joined there were a lot of people who facebook thought I might know.I didn’t know any of them apart from my ex.I didn’t have my glasses on and I clicked on a box which I thought would show me his profile.Then I received a pop up saying your invitation has been sent.I accidentally requested he accepted me as a friend.I didn’t know how to undo what I had done but not longer after ,his details disappeared off my page.I have been told this is because he has blocked me.I am furious with my self.I swear that i didn’t want to be his friend,but I invited him to reject me again.I have been crying all day over this.
What shall I do ?
Do I explain to him that it was a mistake ? Will he believe me ? I have had strong feelings today about getting the last word on this,or should I accept my stupid mistake .I am so angry because I had the last word when I did no contact.I could kick myself.
What would everyone else do ?
Thanks
If I was you, I would not even bother to explain. I know what this is like and I did something similar once, when I accidentally invited an ex to chat on messenger and then wasn’t sure if I should tell him I didn’t mean it. I don’t know if it means he blocked you, but in any case, just try to forget about it and move on with your day. If he ever asked you about it, you could pass it off as just being a mature person trying to be friendly.
Tanzanite, forget it.
As long as YOU know it was a mistake, HE doesn’t have to know. Don’t explain anything to him, it’s going to make you look desperate.
It’s been TWO YEARS Tanzanite. Two years of NC isn’t undone by mistakenly clicking a button on FB. And, anyway, it’s a good thing he blocked you. Now neither of you can get in contact with the other “accidentally”. (You DID want to check out his profile didn’t you? We’ve all done it.)
This post isn’t about the importance of the last word, it’s saying the last word ISN’T important. The big picture is that you are done with him.
Do Not Contact Under Any Circumstances. Ok,it may have been a mistake hitting the friend request, but do not apologize or explain anything to him. As you said, he did the dirty on you 2 years ago, and just maybe you were kinda hoping for some heartfelt apology from him. I’m sorry but I don’t think you are going to get it. I know you feel bad today, think of it as the last piece of your grieving process. Think of how far you have come in the last 2 years and the amazing possibilities of your life still to come.
Hi Tanzanite,
What an unfortunate blooper!! Oops! Forgive yourself for what was clearly a mistake, and move on.
If it has been two years (you didn’t say how long you were with him) and it still is really painful, I wonder if you have a plan for getting unstuck and beyond him.
It’s annoying that he’d block you, but if you’re NC then he’s doing you a favor anyway, you don’t want anything to do with him, and you don’t need this guy’s facebook profile in your life or to have him as a fb “friend.”
Try to see it as a blip. Cry out any feelings it brings up but there is certainly NO need to follow it up with more contact with this person.
You’ve had a lot of great advice Tanzanite so all I’ll say is – do nothing. It’s a mistake and the sky really won’t fall in and it doesn’t mean 2 years is a waste. Stop letting what this man may or may not think of you have so much power over you. I’d also like to point out that he’s obviously not going to add you if you would be exposed to information that cements the fact that he’s a dishonest asshole. Let it be. Go and get on with your life – you don’t want this man *anyway*!
I hope you will heed all the good advice everyone has given you. Maybe I can give you one more reason why you should not contact him on this matter.
He won’t be convinced it was a mistake, if you are so aware of him NOT accepting your accidental request, that you felt the need to contact him about it.
You accidentally contacted him thru a friend request once, he has possibly blocked you. If you really want the last word here, let it be the sound of silence.
All I have to add is that this little blooper revealed that both you and your ex are on the very same page. You both agree that there should be no contact between the two of you. This is good news! You both want the same thing. There is no problem. Don’t make one!
Cheers,
Cavewoman
Tanizinte, I don’t have a clue regarding FB. Other than to respond to my daughter’s posts telling her how cute she is, I don’t understand it. I’ve made some mistakes like you. I don’t get FB. I’ve blocked and unfriended every ex, I think. Maybe I “friended them”. FB is just so weird. Cavewoman is right. You and the ex are on the same page. No contact. Onward and upward. FB is stupid.
let it go… if you find yourself analysing it over and over again just try to say “stop”. It doesn’t matter what your ex thinks, think about yourself and show yourself some compassion.
I once had what I call my John Cusack moment. He played a character in a film called High Fidelity where he gets in touch with all his exes to try and fathom why his current relationship is a mess. In a very mis-guided attempt to try and work out why my relationships sucked I sent an ex a long rambling message and a friend request via MSN asking if I was really that bad etc etc as I’d had yet another relationship that had broken up and was I crazy and was it all me.. blah, blah blah? 🙁 And this was to an ex that had belittled me, and I’d had to ring and chase to ask if our 3 year relationship was over when I was still living in his flat as he worked abroad. Urgh.
That is a million times worse than your mistake…. I actually initiated contact with someone who had emotionally abused me, but now I just cringe when I think of it and realise I made a mistake, move on, and don’t do it next time. Go easy on yourself and think about you and your life, move the focus off the ex. Do not waste your time and breathe for a second longer.
My ex A/C, multiple cheater had the last word on a text message when i blanked him after we had broken up. The old me would of responded with anything to have prevented him having the last word as i would of felt he had won ( WTF) On this occasion ( and any communication i receive from him in the future) will be met with silence. I got to the point where i couldn’t be arsed with being drawn into his f@@@ed up world anymore. My way of letting go was to let him have the last word and my last action was delete!
Amen Louise! When his ego high has worn off, like the average person pursuing the last word, it will suddenly start to creep in that you haven’t ignored him because he’s right but because you’re done with him and don’t care.
“The last word is action.” and “I didn’t give them anymore airtime and they couldn’t get so much as a pubic hair through the proverbial door, never mind get their foot in it!”
ROFLMAO!! Well said Natalie! In that case, I have had the last word because I am showing, not with words, but with my actions, that I don’t need his validation, nor do I want him back. You see, he likes to break the no contact agreement every so often to find out what I’ve been doing and to see if I still have feelings for him so that he can get an ego boost. When I ignore him, his best female friend, whom I haven’t heard from since the breakup, suddenly starts emailing me in order to find out what I’ve been doing. I quietly took care of that by blocking both of them from sending me future emails, or trying to re-friend me on Facebook.
Glad to make you laugh Gina! Block, block, block! Good for you! Application for an ego stroke has been denied! Judgement in favour of the plaintiff – open and shut case of assholery. Permission granted for blockage and silence!
Hey Nat!
“Application for an ego stroke has been denied! Judgement in favour of the plaintiff – open and shut case of assholery. ”
Case closed.
To use an Irish word that my ex, who was originally from Belfast, taught me: Life goes on and I’m going go out and have meself a bit of craic 🙂
Being from Dublin, Nat, I’m sure that you understand what I’m saying 🙂
Gina, I love it! It’s funny, because there’s been a lot of whining about the changes on Fbook and I thought, “Who the hell cares as long as we still have the block button?!” It’s like Witness Protection from assclowns 🙂
Hi Natasha!
“Witness Protection from assclowns”
I LOVE that expression!! LOL!!!!
Glad you enjoyed Gina 🙂 It really is literally the best Fbook feature haha! My ex used to love to hunt me down on there and write these long epistles about how “bad” he felt about how he’d treated me. Maybe I’m petty, but it did give me a little giggle to think of him sitting there smugly thinking the same tactic would work again, and then….not. so. much.
That’s hilarious that yours is outsourcing his dirty work to his harem. If one of my guy friends tried to get me to go on a Reconnaissance Mission for him I’d be like, “Ummm. Yeah. I have better things to do.”
Hi Natasha,
OMG!! Your ex sounds like a piece of work!! I honestly believe that mine thought that when I left his house crying (after I broke up with him) I was so in love with him that I would still be pinning for him 7 months later in much the same manner as he continued to pine for his ex three years after she dumped him!! The truth of the matter is that no matter how strongly I felt for him, it pales in comparison to how I feel about myself.
As far as his harem is concerned, he has lots of platonic female friends who think that he’s the salt of the earth. I thought he was all that too. Here’s the FB post that one of my former students (who’s only 13) posted. When I read it this morning, I was shocked and caught by surprise because it pretty much summed up my relationship with my ex. Out of the mouth of babes…
“Never assume that somebody loves you because of their sweet behavior towards you. Sometimes you are just an option when they are bored.”
“The truth of the matter is that no matter how strongly I felt for him, it pales in comparison to how I feel about myself.”
That is honestly one of the best comments I’ve ever read Gina 🙂 So well said. He must have been in for the shock of his life when he found out you hadn’t spent 7 months weeping over him! I was cracking up over your former students’ wisdom, because I’ve just turned 30 and I’m finally getting it. Talk about 13 Going On 30 haha!
Hi Natalie,
Oh, this one hit home and sent me into head desk, again. Having the last word kept me hooked in the two year debacle and kept me playing the role of the perfect FBG. Futile is an understatement. Every time I broke it off saying (and screaming) “I refuse to be treated like this, I deserve better”, it was like he knew I would have to have the last word and he used my need to have the last word as an opportunity to throw a few crumbs my way, which I magically turned into a whole loaf. He knew I had to have the last word and turned it into the classic “bait and switch”. I got lured back in every time I intended to have the last word. I bought the bait because in typical FBG fashion, I knew better. Within days, I became the pursuer again because it triggered my flight fight response. I was too scared to walk away and continued fighting even though there was nothing to fight for. It set off my internal fears. Looking back, I would have done anything to avoid facing my internal fears, including fighting for a fantasy I created and then blaming him for not living up to the fantasy. I was fighting myself.
Having the last word kept me actively engaged in inaction. I ended up a talking and screaming head and did nothing other than talk and scream for two solid years. The most difficult realizations: Fighting for his commitment masked my fear of commitment and my unavailability. I was firmly committed to not committing but was caught in the drama.
Among other things, having the last word kept me from fully committing to NC in the beginning and kept me clinging to the hope that if I just explained myself AGAIN, this time he would spontaneously combust into the guy I imagined he was (but never was). When I broke NC, I was either nostalgic or felt the need to “have the last word”. I was his perfect foil and he was mine. The synergy between Mr. Unavailables and FBGs is truly stunning. It is like we are Dancing with the Stars (a popular show in the US). You are brilliant Natalie and thank you for continuing to share your insights. All marriage and family counselors, and therapists should be required to read your material and take a 16.6 week course taught by you.
Congratulations on the new edition of Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. I’ve been on FB and your readers there are totally excited. Happy,…
runner
Aw, you were played like a fish on the line. Glad you got yourself unhooked. Wanting the last word is a trap and, like you say, worse than futile. Chasing it will put us in a very vulnerable position.
Why bother telling someone “I won’t be treated like this. I won’t have sex with someone who doesn’t care about me. I won’t be spoken to like that”. He can’t do any of those things if you’ve hightailed it out of his life. Leave him in the dust! He’s left with “I can’t use and abuse her anymore … she’s gone!”
I am loving the new edition of the book as well, may treat myself to the print version. I’m interested to see what the reviews on amazon will be like. I think it could get quite fighty!
Reading your comment Runnergirl was an eerie reminder or when I was with my cheating ex. Like to a tee. 18 months I did that for. Sometimes I thought my head would pop off and explode! Thanks for your fabulous support! I’m posting yours finally on Monday as I was too lazy to go to the post office this morning. I also owe you a mail! Hugs x
He, he, he, Natalie. I think my head did finally pop off and explode and that’s when I found BR. With your help and all the others, I’ve been picking up the pieces of my head ever since. You’re comment about being to lazy made me LOL. I read it twice because even though, you wrote “lazy”, my mind read “busy”! No worries. The e-book is providing many ah, ha moments.
@Grace, “played like a fish on a line” made me howl. By trying to have the last word, I was actually swimming after a bare hook with no cheese. What a nutter. Isn’t the new edition fabulous? I’m down to reading about 5 pages and then I scurry to my journal to write. As Fearless would say, I think this one is going to be a stormer. Are you sure I can’t send a copy to the exMM? Only joking…the last word indeed!
Natalie, congratulations on the shipment of the new edition and Happy 6th Birthday. I wish I could be there.
I just changed my phone number, a few times I moved to another address.
The no contact is the best, when you had enough of their BS. Don’t let them text message you with a goodnight either, its all a scam to get you going again. My ex kept doing this, then I’s respond with a goodnight, however he never said anything else, I found it annoying. His way of staying in touch.
I have been in nc with my ex-boyfriend (aka future faker/fast forwarder) since he broke up with me out of the blue in January. I had a lapse and broke it in may after his friend killed himself, but have had no contact since. Even though I’ve remained a dignified silence, I still worry what he thinks of me and what he says about me to others. He’s a seemingly very carefree, fun loving nice guy on the surface, but I know, through the time I was close with him, that all he did was talk shit about his best friend of 20 years and his close family….and well, most people actually! Because he was looking for a speedy exit to the relationship after overcommitting himself, I just know he has fabricated things in his own head about me that aren’t true. The temptation is to correct him, but as you say, what good does it do? Aside from making you look like a crazy cow and reaffirm all the negative things they think about you anyway. What you end up doing is letting them off the hook and making them feel relieved that they got rid of you! I have to attend a party next week at which he will definitely be at (my absence would be conspicuous) and I intend to look fab, say hi (but keep conversation at bay) and have a good time. Remember ladies, happiness is the best revenge! Any advice appreciated though….it’s been a long road…but this site has helped so thanks!
Jess,
“The temptation is to correct him, but as you say, what good does it do? Aside from making you look like a crazy cow and reaffirm all the negative things they think about you anyway. What you end up doing is letting them off the hook and making them feel relieved that they got rid of you! ”
Yes, that’s absolutely it in a nutshell! This is a major driver for me in maintaining NC, as my ex has accused his former wife and at least one ex-gf of being barking mad. I have a feeling he has said similar things about me anyway, despite my dignified silence. I know for a fact he told at least one person that I was “stupid”. But you know what? Any of our mutual friends who truly know and care about me will see straight through anything he can say about me or accuse me of. By the way, in my experience people only diss others in order to big themselves up – so the fact that your ex talked crap about his friends, family and everybody else only goes to show that he feels very inadequate himself.
As for advice, Jess – well, you sound like you’ve been doing just fine. I wouldn’t beat yourself up about breaking your silence when his friend died – it was a very decent and human thing to reach out and offer some comfort and I would probably have done the same. So keep going with the NC, and maintain your dignity at all times. All power to you, girl!
Thanks radio girl! Yes,having inadequate feelings about himself is probably right – I’d just never thought of it before! He’s a 32 year guy trying to make it as a musician and not having a whole lot of luck. Definitely someone who has Peter pan syndrome who doesn’t want to grow up. Thanks for your kind words!
You’re welcome, Jess. Sadly, a person’s age and success has little to do with emotional maturity (as Natalie has written about elsewhere on BR – https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/the-trouble-with-being-blinded-by-intelligence-in-dating-and-relationships/. My ex is a clever and successful airline captain aged 53, but just like your ex, he is a Peter Pan type who also made up a whole load of rubbish in his head to justify ending the relationship once he realised he’d wildly overestimated his capacity for commitment. For example, he told someone I’d “said something stupid, like give up gliding” (his all-consuming “hobby”/obsession). Not only did I *not* say that, but I actively encouraged him to achieve his goals with his gliding, having been an amateur light aircraft pilot myself! It was so hard to resist the temptation to have the last word and take him to task on lying about me to that person. But in the end I knew in my heart he was a fantasist who had heard what he’d decided to hear, and that he never would listen to what I was *actually* saying anyway if it didn’t suit him, so why bother. So my “last word” to him was to write a message nearly 4 months ago asking him to respect my wishes and not contact me again in any way. I’ve been recovering much better from the very upsetting end of the relationship since I made that decision and stuck with it. He broke NC with a typically self-interested text a few weeks ago, but again I resisted the temptation to reply because I’ve learned now that actions really do speak louder than words.
Have a great time at the party next week!
You know what’s funny? I’ve come to learn that just as you remember the truth your way, he really is remembering an alternative truth that seems just as real in his mind. Most people, even decent ones, don’t like having to change course when it comes to their beliefs, especially if those changes would mean that we have to take a deeper look at ourselves and admit to our faults. So I highly doubt that he would ever want to believe anything bad you have to say about him…I’ve had to learn that no amount of explanation will ever change a jackass’ mind when it comes to the reality of how a relationship crumbled. They may be lying to themselves, but they don’t think that they are. They will protect this higher image that they hold of themselves at all costs, and will only think that anyone who believes otherwise is either wrong or foolish. He may in fact be saying bad things about you, but truth is not dependent on perceptions to survive. It has a life of its own so it will always remain the same no matter how anyone sees it. Him having a warped perception of you now does not change the course of history, and in the long run it really doesn’t do him any good. All it would allow him to do is remain emotionally stagnant as he continues to blame you instead of doing some soul searching of his own. Don’t worry about what he thinks of you. And if his perception of you doesn’t match the one that you hold for yourself, so what? Let him alone to his thoughts in his little alternative universe while you continue to live a happy life without him in the real world. Good luck with the party!
This post made me smile.. I’ve been fighting the urge to reply to a particular email since Monday. I haven’t posted here before but have been reading for some time. I’ve been involved in a shady thing with a MM. Really it’s been over a while but still in touch and sometimes he says he will visit (lives far away) then doesn’t. I went no contact for 6 weeks and through terrible heartache missing him – waking with pain in my chest, crying in my sleep. Then he showed up in person and I let myself get sucked in again. My feelings for him are nearly all gone though only get odd twinges of sadness and regret. On Monday got an ambiguous email – was he dumping me? Putting me off for now? Just feeling down about his disintegrating marriage? Very tempting to reply and dump him – again! – but really what does it matter, silence says it better. I’ve humiliated myself enough already.
@Clover –
An earlier post referred to the Reality Train, and I think you might need to jump aboard it as well.
1) It’s not NC when you are still in touch with him and haven’t blocked his emails, phone, Facebook, etc.
2) It doesn’t matter whether you have ‘feelings’ for him still nor not; the thing is that he still contacts you and you are letting him. Fix those boundaries up right now.
3) You only have his word for it that his marriage is ‘disintegrating’. His wife may have quite a different story to tell you.
This is why MMs are a bad, bad idea – the game is seriously not worth the candle, and it simply leads to awful pain for three people instead of two.
I’m glad you’re distancing yourself somewhat, but you really need to protect yourself from this guy, and from any future tempting MMs – they can be an easily-acquired habit, especially if you have committment issues of your own.
Very wise words! It’s also easier said than done. Or maybe it just is for me because I have a really insane need to be right all the time. In the end though, it’s impossible to let go if we keep thinking about what we should have or might have said, or even what we think they need to hear. I know that personally, if I’m on the receiving end of “you really need to hear this,” I already know I don’t want to!
Being able to disengage the ego is very difficult, but very important and ultimately essential to peace of mind.
this was just what i needed as confirmation and support, thank you! a former friend, who abused my friendship and can’t own up to the fact that she screwed up, keeps coming back to me via e-mail. putting the blame on everyone else and portraying herself as the victim, she does not listen to reason and anything you say to her ignites her even further. so, i have decided to no longer respond to her communications, i have come to realise it’s the only way i’ll ever be rid of her.
The ‘last word’ doesn’t truly exist unless after you say whatever you have to say, they keel over and die.
Hahaha if only….. Jk! Here’s an interesting twist: ex breaks up with me one night out of the blue, and is compelled to have the last word from then on. I left without any hysterics, just in shock. I didn’t go around telling tall tales when our also very shocked mutual friends asked “But why?!” I calmly explained that my potential as wife material was suddenly unacceptable because I didn’t cycle or have enough friends to introduce him to, which were the only reasons he gave me. I’ll be honest, it did feel validating to hear them say, ”Wow, I had no idea he was so crazy”. But the reality of it was, I was so in the dark at that point, I was just at a loss as they were. I didn’t yet know about red flags, assclowns or eums. This “Ok, I”ll tell you what I know” period only lasted a short time anyway.
But that meant Mr.EUM/AC felt he had to have the last word. After couple of months of NC, he actually IM’d me AT WORK … looking for closure (incredible,). Saying that he had been honest with me “most of the time” and he felt terrible for “what happened” (like lightening or some other act of god came down and broke my trust, not him), and that although he admitted he’d been an emotional vampire in my life, but he wasn’t broken, and that actually I was the best thing that had ever happened to him and he was just trying to save me from his ”destructive love” (btw, he was dating another lady at this point- he didn’t know I knew, and I didn’t bring it up). Truly the man was painting himself up as such a hero right before my eyes!
After getting over the initial suprise and realizing I was breaking NC, I simply let him know, I didn’t need him to validate my reality of what happened and I had no interest in hearing anything such a dishonest person who tells the truth ”most of the time about almost everything”. He has since tried to contact me, to get an ego stroke (usually via some social media that I had either forgotten or hadn’t figured out how to block). I never reply because getting the last word with him is useless. He wants me to forgive him so there isn’t someone out there to remind him of what happens when someone took a (very stupid) chance and trusted him. While I have let go of the anger, I no longer have a problem calling a spade a spade, or have to have the last word in order to convince somebody else of my reality.
Great post Nat!
Jasmine:
What a coincidence. The on-and-off-again ex-“best friend” who had a girlfriend for 11 years and lied to me about having another one soon after, somehow or another added me on a social media site. Usually I’d receive an e-mail request from the site, but for some reason I never received one about him, otherwise I would’ve rejected it immediately. All I received was an alert saying “You and _____ are now connected”. When I saw the alert, I didn’t know how to block him so I sent an e-mail to the “Help” section, which gave me an automatic answer about how to block him. And block I did.
Like your ex, this jackass probably wanted an ego stroke from me. We’ve not spoken in over 3 years (nor will we ever) and I never answered any of his other requests after I cut him off (he sent e-mails, forwarded e-mails, all kinds of bullshit), so this clearly demonstrates that he hasn’t changed one bit. He LOVES having the last word, being ego-stroked, having a harem, and being babied. This jackass (and your ex) can have the last word… and shove it.
Spinster,
hahah they “can take the last word and shove it”. Agreed!
I also agree that it is incredibly callous and disrespectful to continue to contact someone who wants to be left alone. It just means their need for an ego stroke is far more important to them and any genuine consideration for you.
Last night I passed on another opportunity to have the last word. I got together with a couple of friends for a birthday dinner and afterwards girl whose birthday it was pulled me aside and asked me if I was ready to see the ex yet. I guess she’d thought about inviting him to the dinner (he was the one who had introduced us) but thought twice because of our history.
I just said “No – and I’d prefer not talk about him at all.” She then said, “That’s fair, but do you think would you ever want to see him again?” and I just said “No.”
Some of our mutual friends have asked this recently because after the breakup, I didn’t go around telling everyone how much the relationship had cost me, or how unhealthy it was. I guess they assume since time has passed that I would be over the relationship (which I am) and be okay with seeing him from time to time (which I don’t feel is related to the first, nothing has happened to rectify the fact that he exploited/betrayed my trust). Standing in a room with him and acting as if we were chums would be against my commitment to honoring myself and keeping a person who has proven he lacks integrity at a distance.
But I didn’t need to explain any of that to her! Or anyone else. I don’t have to have the last word! We validate our own truth. Just say “no”. And then change the subject.
And there it is, Jasmine.
omg, thanks natalie. I was thinking of sending an email to ex today coz i really think he’s using me for some ego stroke lately. He’s full of bs. Now I know it won’t do me any good.
I am just wondering what the line is between not having the last word and giving someone the silent treatment, which is supposed to be a form of abuse?
Lavender, silent treatment *in* a relationship is incredibly rude, manipulative and yes even abusive. None of these people are in a relationship. By your definition, every person who has stopped talking to their ex, no longer engages with people that detract from them, or who don’t keep trying to engage and have the last word, is abuse. Same for when someone decides to just ignore someone’s bad behaviour and go about their own business instead of internalising it or attempting to fix them. It’s time for you to ask where *you* draw the line because it’s this type of thinking why people wind up being abused or even dead because they’re worried about being nice or being seen in a certain light by someone who is abusing them.
I guess I was wondering because I was once broken up with someone through silence (like someone else said above) and it was the most painful thing. He didn’t even say it was over, he just ignored me and blocked me out of his life. So now years later if he comes back at times and says hello, I feel bad not saying hello back, because I don’t want to be like he is. I completely understand the distinction you are making though. I just bought your e-books – they are fantastic. All the way through I was thinking yes, yes, yes, yes I recognise that.
I think where you said above “they’re worried about being nice or being seen in a certain light by someone who is abusing them,” is very true.
BTW Nat, you should write an e-book using similar interpersonal insights that you apply to romantic/intimate relationships, but this time for other relationships like friendships/work colleagues/other people. It would be very helpful.
Excellent post, very thoughtful and well expressed.
I heard a podcast the other day, Freakonomics, the economist on there was saying how people ALWAYS frame an explanation for events afterward that self justifies. It’s simply the way people’s minds work. Sometimes it’s a case that requires a lot of self awareness to see the other person’s side or one’s own contribution to the contention, but sometimes it’s just a crazy person who is out of control and venting their frustrations on you and there’s nothing you could ever do about it.
Haha – interesting comment Luccianna although that means that anyone who not only talks about an event, but who is questioned by the police or a lawyer, writes an autobiography, blog, article, tells a story etc is self justification including the very cool Steven and Stephen of Freakonomics.
I reconsidered the event after reading your comment including did I imagine her shouting at me after I apologised, that no I hadn’t touched her she just wants me to say excuse me when I walk past her. And then I realise as I ‘reconsider’ that it becomes justification to *you* which actually cements my original point.
I know what I saw, heard, and experienced irrespective of whether I had witnesses or not. Her experience is her own but I know that only one of us was shouting and gesticulating. I go to my local supermarket at least 5 times a week plus visit hundreds of shops each year walking by thousands of people. This has never happened to me in 34 years. Unsurprisingly I find her behaviour quite odd.
When I was 21 and going through a very difficult time with an ex, I snapped at a woman in a supermarket in Dublin and told her not to touch me when she placed her hand on my arm. My behaviour was unjustified and inexcusable and while I don’t think of it all the time, I occasionally remember it and cringe. The good thing is that it was out of character.
“I know what I saw, heard, and experienced irrespective of whether I had witnesses or not. Her experience is her own but I know that only one of us was shouting and gesticulating. I go to my local supermarket at least 5 times a week plus visit hundreds of shops each year walking by thousands of people. This has never happened to me in 34 years. Unsurprisingly I find her behaviour quite odd.”
Hey Nat,
This woman was probably suffering from some type of mental illness. Paranoid Schizophrenia perhaps? Her behavior had nothing to do with you. You simply were in the unfortunate position of being there at the exact moment that she was having one of her PS attacks. I could have walked past her and she would have reacted the same way. Heck, if I would have walked past her, she probably would have acted worse! LOL!
Hi everyone
Thanks for your response to my question. I probably would have tried to contact him today if it wasn’t for you.You are absolutely right.
I have be tormented by the fact that I think he was living a double life and that he had a child with someone else whilst we were still together,or as soon as we split up.I was on a bus and looked out of the window and saw him with a woman and a baby in a pram.The baby looked about 6 months old and we had only been split up properly for 12 months.I wanted to look at his profile to see if I could find out for sure.
I wish I had a plan to get over this.I am stuck.After reading these blogs I realise it all stems back to my childhood and being the black sheep for as long as I can remember.I have kept it all inside because I don’t want everyone to know what a fool iv’e been and iv’e only survived really by finding this site.
Thanks to the lady who said- ” if he says anything just say you are being mature person who is trying to be friendly”.That is a good answer.
If anyone wants to add me on face book,please do.I’m changing my name to Tanzanite.
Thanks again
You know I realize that you are a 100% right with this…but it is so hard! I am now in the 4th week of dating someone who ( I cross my fingers) seems like a really kind, sweet, level-headed man but these men who really boundary-bust make it hard to trust and let go of wanting to have said something. They really leave their scars.
I think that that was the hardest, for me in my last “relationship” not only not getting the last word, but any word! He flipped out on me so badly that I just kind of froze, asked him politely to leave and gave him all his things back….all I got a few weeks later was a short, remorseless email asking me if I wanted to “talk” and acting like he had not been abusive….I felt so angry for months that I never said anything back but I was just too freaked out; my feelings were hurt and I just could not bring myself to reply. I never did and voila! That was it.
I feel to be honest, like such a loser, that I still think of this….it was over a year and a half ago! My “epiphany” relationship was only 3 1/2 months long but it hurt me worse than 3 year breakups, I think because of the lack of assertion on my part. He had been great for 95% of it…then he freaked out on a vacation where he had flown me to another state to meet his parents and kids…I was totally unprepared for it….obviously given that he had been talking up a storm about how important I was and he was paying my ticket to go there. It was literally like he was Dr. Jekyl the minute we landed; rude, curt, just really cold the whole time…he veered from buying me presents there one minute, to being really weird and abusive the next; for example, in just one weekend he yelled at me in public for no reason, got drunk at a dinner with a friend and bragged about cheating with his ex and insulted my home in front of his kids “as a joke”. I was just shocked about his confession about cheating on his wife especially…and he said it in public. He was obviously just trying to hurt me to drive me away but I will never understand why he flew me there to treat me like that…why not just break up with someone prior like a man? He was 44!
I guess I wonder how do you get rid of that residual feeling of anger/hurt/disgust which stays too long? I wrote the unsent letter and it did not help. I am just trying to soldier forth but for whatever reason, and I am not…
dancinqueen,
You did great; it’s very admirable.
Sounds to me like he got to the point of panic over commitment with that vacation that brought you into his family. But that terrible behavior you saw was real. What you did not do was rationalize it (“oh, he’s panicking, I’ll be understanding and smooth things over) and sign up for another helping. You got out cleanly and with great dignity. The guy has major issues. If you had continued on, you would have eventually gotten confused and started thinking they were *your* issues, or that you “made” him act this way by something you did or didn’t do. That’s the quicksand that so many of us have gotten sucked into — and it can go on for years. Instead, you set a clear boundary: that behavior will not be part of my life. That leaves his issues squarely with him, which is where they belong. And it’s more powerful than any heartfelt analysis you could give him about what might be going on with him.
How very funny is it that while I was reading your story about the chick in the grocery store, I knew I probably would’ve said something entirely different and I would’ve gotten the last word so she would have thought twice about snapping on somebody else lol…too funny, and so very telling…I think for pretty much as long as I can remember, I’ve always been the one to try getting the last words in, usually I think I succeed… just one of the dramatic parts of my personality I guess…
I do believe that actions absolutely speak louder than words, but I also think that words hold a lot of power as well. But, they don’t mean anything if you’re not prepared to walk as you’re talking. That’s probably how I’ve gotten myself into trouble, because telling a man off does no good if the actions aren’t there to back it up. I’ve always been good about saying what’s going to happen, or what’s not going to happen again, and for most people the threat via words seems to work, so I never really had to put any action behind them. But it does not work that way for everyone. I had the experience of dating a man who point blank threw my own words back in my face to prove that I was not truly going to stand on them. Talk about a wake up call. He was so bold, and SO cocky as he said, “Oh, you mean like the last time you said you were done?”. I couldn’t even be mad, taken aback definitely, but if I was in his shoes I wouldn’t have taken me seriously either. It was then that I learned that people don’t take you seriously once they figure out that all you’re doing is blowing hot air…
Thank you Natalie, you have an eerie knack of writing what I need to hear. Really want to tell a certain somebody about themselves today. I won’t and never will but this article reinforces this for me, hes just not worth it. But hope you don’t mind my rant to com, lol. Few months ago I was seeing a as I thought nice man, getting along great, laughing doing everythin together seeing each other at everybfree opportunity. I asked him where he saw us going , his reply was , I am not ready for a relationship. Well I was and felt really hurt. But let him go, getting on with life ok, looking out for me. 2 weeks ago after many requests to talk, we spoke. The ass clown said, he missed me so much, wanted to be with me, relationship and all. So thought why not obviously he has had time to think, we will see how it goes. 3 days ago acted strange on the phone, rang him the next day, call was never returned by him. He is a guy that rang me 5-6 times daily. Not heard from him since. I am not hurt, I am effing pissed off angry, mad at him and myself. Mad at myself for giving him anymore of my time and attention, actually feel like a big fool. Keep thinking fool me once shame on him , fool you twice shame on you! That’s the hardest part. Mad at him, well don’t need to explain that, who does he think he is. Where is his balls, if he changed his mind then he could have said so, not no contact lmao. Sorry for the rant, but thanks for letting me get this of my chest, feel embarrassed to share this with my friends.
Hello All,
Oh my. Yet another *ding ding light bulb moment* for me with this.
Yes, I wanted to have the last word and I did do this and…I regret it now. I sent his housewarming gifts back (I had recently moved) along with a vituperative letter full of rage, sadness, and much hurt. At the time, it felt the right thing to do, but only in retrospect do I now realize that even though I thought I was speaking from my heart (which I was) that all it really served to do in the end was to probably make him think, “Wow, I really did make the right decision, she’s a crazy girl, it’s true”…
My fave movie icon has always been Audrey Hepburn and he knew this and would often say to me how “Audrey” like I was in my ways and yet, I now have this nagging feeling that after my words to him, he now thinks of me as “Audrey on crack” (with a bit of Courtney Love thrown in!). I have maintained NC and so has he (but then again, I have blocked his email and changed my number so I wouldn’t feel tempted)…and…
I am *trying* not to beat up on myself emotionally too much about this and yet, I also have so many regrets too. Where does one put all the regrets, when it feels as if they are overtaking your mind and heart? That is what I would like to understand because right now I just feel overwhelmed with my own thoughts and feelings. It hurts. A LOT.
Thank you to Natalie for your brilliant insights and for allowing us all this platform to share with others. If I am relatively sane at all after everything as of late, it is due to this website, and my lovely friends 🙂
Hi Lessie,
“Where does one put all the regrets, when it feels as if they are overtaking your mind and heart?” I don’t know if will help but my therapist really helped me with the following advice regarding regrets. I finally sought counseling after three consecutive divorces and a relationshit with an emotionally abusive colleague I fell in love with just like Dancingqueen describes. My therapist made me repeat over and over “I am so grateful”. As I’ve posted before, at first, I said it but added “effing grateful” while gritting my teeth. One day, I meant it. I am now extremely grateful for the experiences with each ex husband, grateful we got divorced, and most grateful for the experience with the emotionally abusive colleague (which led me to counseling and revelations regarding childhood physical/sexual abuse). After the divorce from the 1ex (who didn’t want kids), I went to law school and met my daughter’s father. I wouldn’t have my beautiful, wonderful, daughter if I had stayed with ex1. After each “failure”, there was some amazing “success”. Although, I’m still saying “I’m so effing grateful” I got involved with a MM, and I’m still cringing from the humiliation of trying to have the last word which kept me hooked, and still deeply regreting every second of decieving his wife, children, my daughter, and my friends, there will be a day when I’ll be grateful. I am not an artist, I can only draw stick figures, so I’m always amazed when I watch artists. When they first start, it looks like random lines. I cannot imagine how those random strokes are going to become a picture or painting. Little by little, the strokes finally connect into a pic. Tapestry, knitting, and writing are similar. How is that one row of chain stitches going to become a beautiful tapestry or cozy scarf? How are those fragmented bullet points on my computer screeen going to woven into a coherent report or wonderful book? When I’m stuck wondering what do I do with all these regrets, when the random lines, single chain stitch, and fragmented bullet points of my life aren’t fitting together, I hold the vision in my mind of the beautiful painting, tapestry, cozy scarf, coherent report, and wonderful book. It comes together even when it doesn’t seem possible. We will be grateful.
“When I’m stuck wondering what do I do with all these regrets, when the random lines, single chain stitch, and fragmented bullet points of my life aren’t fitting together, I hold the vision in my mind of the beautiful painting, tapestry, cozy scarf, coherent report, and wonderful book. It comes together even when it doesn’t seem possible. We will be grateful.”
This is a lovely. As an experienced knitter and occasional writer, it spoke to me and conjured up a wonderful image in my mind. I, too, struggle with regrets in life and trying to move forward. Knit one, psso (pass slipped stich over)….one stitch at a time. Like the yarn I create with, I too will be transformed into something even more beautiful and amazing than its original state, which at the moment is not exactly a skein of pure cashmere…
Thank you.
Hang in there Mango, we’ll get there one row at a time. I started crocheting again around the time of the final break and I was watching a youtube video as a refresher when I added knitting/crocheting to the vision of a tapestry and writing. Right now, I feel like one of those scratchy, cheap skeins….
Your post inspired me to look at a shawl I knit several years ago. It has the pattern of open trailing leaves down the center. I remember when I first started the pattern, I thought for sure I was making a mistake. All the knit two togethers and slipped stitches; it looked a bit boggled. Sort of akin to my life at the moment – HA! Anyway, I plodded forth with the pattern, back and forth, back and forth, and some 30 odd rows later…..trailing leaves! On a vine!!
It really is one stitch at a time.
Thank you for the encouragement; it’s been a challenging week. You hang in there too, runnergirl. Sounds as though you’re making strides in a positive direction. xx
I have long since realized that trying to reason with the ex-husband is futile. He didn’t treat me well during the marriage and he sure isn’t now that it’s over. I was degraded, devalued, and thrown away. I was lied to repeatedly and pulled into some kind of crazy delusion that what I see wasn’t what I saw; what I hear wasn’t what I heard; and what I know wasn’t what I knew. My reality was controlled by him. A very dangerous situation for me!
The problem is….he has custody of our children. He still has an enormous amount of power over me AND them. I am constantly reminding them to remember what they know and resist alternative versions of what’s real.
A lawyer describes our situation as a “domestic casualty” and my counselor tells me not to let go of the children! This sitaution brings me much grief and worry for myself and the kids.
I have long since cut contact with the ex. I communicate with his mother about the children and form independent relationships with the school to keep involved in their lives.
Here is my quandry: He was arrested twice for violating protective orders and stalking me. He has not been convicted. He has been ordered to substance abuse treatment and anger management. He failed two drug tests, but there is no accountability for his actions. He has no consequences. He skips over my rights and has no consequences! He violates the court’s orders and has no consequences. This makes me ANGRY! Should I leave all of this alone and if he’s convicted….so be it. OR do I advocate for me and the kids who live with him by talking to the court and the anger management counselor? I fear that if I say nothing he will charm his way out and if I talk to people who can make a difference I may seem aggressive. TOTALLY caught in indecision over here!!!
Tasha , I am truly feeling for you! Never been in that situation thankfully my ex control freak, didn’t have much time for the children . They would have got in the way of his life. Listen to your counsellor don’t let him get in the way of your relationship with your children. They need you, no matter what. They also need to see non controling behaviour so it’s less normal. Things change in life daily as you well know. People may seem to get away with things but it can only happen for so long. Someone will be taking note. You didn’t say how old the children where, but they will grow up and make there own choices one day. Sending big hugs xxx Pray that things will get better for you and your family soon.
Tasha,
I don’t understand how this man got custody?
I think you should fight for your children, they are in an unsafe environment!
He was granted custody because I was in bad shape emotionally. When I left him, I left with hardly anything.. I didn’t know which way was up or down! It was a choice between life or death mentally. He took my money, shut off my phone, sold my car, and I didn’t talk to my children for months. In order to protect my rights, I filed for divorce. I got better when I knew I was going to see the children. Saved up some money…bought a cheap used car and got my own place. That was in late 2008 and 2009.
But the madness has not ended. He uses the kids as a weapon to hurt me. The youngest (who is now 5) used to tell me that all I had to do was apologize to her dad and everything would be fine! WTF?! Now…she just says that her dad doesn’t like me.
Again…do I let his anger management counselor know what is going on….or do I let what will be…be?
I just don’t see it getting any better any time soon.
Tasha, was in similar situation, lost all material stuff, head was all over the place. Moved back home and got myself a career and head somewhat back together many years ago. Like I previously mentioned the ex didn’t want the children, and he lived thousands of miles away. So it was easier. Firstly be proud of yourself for getting yourself back on track emotionally, getting a car, getting your own place. But you only get one shot at your children. You have evidence , harassment order, failed drug tests ect. So do what you have to do, don’t worry about what people think. Fight for your children, your in a good position now. Hugs xxx
So what if you seem aggressive? Your and the children’s safety is at stake, who cares if anyone sees you as aggressive?
I agree. You’re in a better place, and your kids have to be the priority. He can’t control you any longer! Fight back!
Thank you, ladies!
Congratulations on your book and look forward to your party next week, look forward to meeting you in person.
Having the last word is what kept my ex and I in contact for three years after our real relationship ended and it caused us both to repeatedly break no contact with each other, that and wanting to not look bad to each other and it was a very unhealthy dynamic.
After discussing late one night about letting people go who are in our pasts and who add nothing to our present, I get a text saying : “Goodbye hugs and kisses”. This time though, I wasn’t upset. I just put some jewellry I had been holding onto that he had given me in an envelope and mailed it to him. For me that meant it was finally over and I want no more discusssion. So far not a word from him for two weeks. He’s said Goodbye before buy always started calling. This time somethings changed and I feel sending all that lovely jewellry back was the action that spoke louder than any words. I feel bad about it, but just had to stop the merry-go-round.
I discovered this web site shortly after ending a two-month (but pretty intense, for me) relationship, after a long period of being on my own. He was fading away, and after having had this kind of experience before, I knew what was going on. I sent him a text that said, “It’s pretty clear to me that you’re losing interest, so I’m moving on. I had fun.” (Not very deep, but it’s what I felt he deserved, at that point, and I was hurt and trying to keep some self-respect.) He called and left a voice mail – you’re great, it’s not you, it’s me…blah blah blah. Followed up with a text – we should still be friends – you still owe me dinner, right? I didn’t respond to either, which made me feel briefly empowered, but I really missed him – I guess I cut it off before things got really bad, so it felt a little shocking. He was so sweet and seemed so invested at the beginning. So glad I found this site! Thank you so much! I feel much stronger after reading the material here. I think that I did the right thing, and, though it’s painful, I’m very obviously not alone…if wonderful women like you all can do it, I can too. Here’s hoping for better things in the future. Cheers to you all out there… 🙂
I did the No Contact & I think it REALLY took him by surprise that I did such a thing. I still had to have the last word – actually a VERY long letter telling him that I figured him out to be a EUM & that he needed help to turn his very miserable life around. I knew by saying all this to him, it would never matter because he doesn’t think he has a “problem”. Why I felt the urge to say these things?…. Because deep down I wished he would have taken my advise & see the light. I was the one who cared for him un-conditional & wanted him (more then anything) to change to be a better person. Even if we had never gotten back together, it would have given me some form of joy to know he took the high road & changed to be that person I always thought he was capable of becoming.
Great post.
I had an old lover request to be my friend on facebook, and it was a long time ago so I accepted. Then she immediately messaged me and asked me for my phone number and called. So we’re catching up and I realize I’m really ambivalent about this and mistrustful. I must have said something along those lines because she offered to give me “feedback” on her perception of how I am in relationships. It’s always tempting to have someone tell you about yourself, but I declined.
Later, I thought, 20 years ago this person was incredibly seductive and future-fakey, slept with me a few times, and then calmly informed me I had the wrong end of the stick and we were just friends, and then continued inviting me places and being seductive. I don’t need feedback; there was no relationship in which I got to be enough of myself such that she could have any insight into me. There was only me being really confused and trying to be a good sport about the bait-and-switch. On the flip side, she doesn’t need my feedback about her pattern that “people always fall in love with me and I have to set them straight.” I’m just glad I was one of those people for only a very short time.
I remember the night he broke up with me via text I spent the whole day trying to talk to him and he wouldn’t answer. When he finally responded I started apologizing for MY issues in order to get him to change his mind. He wouldn’t interact with me but he asked ME to tell HIM what my issues were. I told him what I thought they were in the spirit of having a healthy, adult dialogue. After listing my mistakes to him via text, he said NOTHING. I essentially poured my heart out to him about every fear and doubt I had thinking it would help but it didn’t. There was no response from him for days. What kind of person does that to someone they say they loved? It was sadistic. He never once admitted to any mistakes. My mind feels shell shocked. Having a particularly bad day today, sitting outside my gym and can’t go in because I’m crying in my car.
I can relate to what you are feeling. It truly is a crappy, uncaring way to end things, and I understand what it feels like to be on the receiving end of such cold-hearted behavior. My ex-AC ended things in a very similar way, and I was crushed by it. Like you, I eneded up apologizing for my part, and I confess, I was hoping it would open up a healthy dialogue between the two of us. Why I expected that, I have no idea, since he always avoided any conversation that even came close to serious. And like your guy, my ex-AC didn’t respond to my apology, nor did he admit to any of his mistakes. It made me feel like he was simply fishing for ammunition, or maybe my apologies and admitting my shortcomings only served to validate his crappy treatment of me. Who knows.
What I have learned since then, through Nat’s advice, is that texting is the lowest, laziest form of communication, and I will not, in the future, waste my emotional energy pouring my heart out by text. If someone cannot be bothered to have a proper face-to-face conversation about a serious matter, then they do not deserve to hear my apologies or regrets, etc.
It will get better, and you have us here on BR to talk to. In the meantime, stay strong and know how valuable you are, even if he doesn’t acknowledge it.
Thank you grace and runnergirl. I know I won’t physically go back to my pain source but I go bacl there emotionally and mentally every day. Today I went all in! I wasted a year of my life and I’m thankful that was all. I have a long way back to myself.
@icandobetter – I did go to the gym and jogged it out for a while.
Thanks everyone.
Are we all involved with the same guy? No wonder he is so “busy”. Natalie, you are beyond brilliant with this stuff. Let’s all keep the faith. Our future lies with us. Not him.
Please tell me you dried your tears and went into the gym? Get your body moving, your mind will follow. Grace is so right. Don’t wait around for him to pull the proverbial rabbit out of his hat or arse. He doesn’t have the rabbit in either his hat or his arse. So sorry. There is no such thing as a healthy, honest dialogue with EU, AC and/or MM. It’s just a futile attempt of “the last words” as Nat’s post describes by a FBG. You can break the FBG cycle by not responding and moving on. There’s no rabbit, there’s no Elvis, and there are no excuses for his behavior. “What kind of person does that to someone they say they loved?” The Emotionally Unavailable kind. Sending strength and hugs. It totally sucks, I know. If you didn’t get to the gym today, do it tomorrow. Grace is totally spot on: “We have to move on by ourselves and for ourselves.” Thank you Grace.
Thank you for everyone’s input. It really helps to know that others are going through the same and that you’re not alone.
So in essence, it all comes down to our self esteem and working on that? Is that the reason why we stay and why we were involved with these types of men to begin with? I have to say that I thought I had a pretty healthy self esteem coming into this. I did feel however that his lack of reciprication and his Hot/Cold behavior was what “triggered” or brought out in me this needy clingy insecure person. I felt I had met a great person/man was excited only to find out it was all an “ACT” on his part. I feel very disappointed, sad and like i can’t trust anyone right now. Before I met him I didnt feel this way. And in spite all of this, I still have moments where I want him back (its so bizarre). So is this wanting him back because I want him to “validate me” or do I need to search for something deeper within me that causes me to want to hold on to unhealthy men (especially once they have proven to be such an ASSCLOWN). I think that’s what I find so confusing. Why I keep wanting him in spite of me knowing who he really is. And the fact that they go on their merry way while we are left here trying to put ourselves back together just seems so unfair.
I hope he does reach out to me again JUST so that this time I get a chance to do NC the right way and NOT respond at all. I guess I’m a little upset that I responded and I gave him that ego stroke because at this point, he doesn’t deserve a damn thing and yet again, he got away with something (at least that’s how im feeling about it right now). My last word has to be in actions I know, and I hope i get the chance to do it right the next time! 🙁
You are not alone in feeling like you were in a healthy place before you met the AC. I think what happens is that these types of experiences do reveal something in us. That something is shown in our actions. Yes, we all have our triggers, but how we react to those triggers is about us.
It really stinks when they go about their merry way, and don’t look back. It’s really not fair, and on some level, I think we can start to believe there is something wrong with us for grieving this injustice, when they don’t seem to acknowledge there ever was an injustice. Trust me, you are not broken, just heart-broken. And now you have a chance to arm yourself with wisdom from BR, and as you begin to heal, you will find that while trusting others is important, trusting yourself to do right by you is what is going to give you the courage to try again.
Donna, I shake my head for you when I read your post; I’m sorry you are so pained; I feel great empathy for you. I know something of how you feel. My exEUM would never ask me to tell him my issues. I did though, often, just the same. I have lost count of the number of times I have cried in a car! – Cos I was so gobsmacked and shattered by his deafening silence after I’d just poured out my guts to him (by email!); it took me along time to figure out that ignoring me (even ignoring my pleas for a response – any response) was his version of “normal”. I stopped telling him what I felt or thought other than very ocassionally and in only a few words; and I became pretty numb to his silences; I learned to expect it (NB I would also be gobsmacked and in tears cos the sheer futility of it all was suddenly made all to obvious to me; I’d feel like a fool – there’s no maintaining ‘the denial’ when they blatantly ignore us like that – it’s like a slap in the face and for a while we are woken up – we see the true nature of the relationship and the coldness of the heart we are trying to deal with, and it’s hard to bear).
Anyway…the last word??! I would never need to fight “him” for the ‘last word”- Mr Silence doesn’t give a fig for the ‘last word’ – his or mine! He would never compete with me for the last word; I can have as many ‘last words’ as I want! Only person who needed to stop doing any more talking was me. I have now.
Grace’s comment to you Donna is, as usual, is very astute. Grace, I have been reading your recent comments with great interest recently; I think I am now beginning to fully grasp just how right you are. I have written here recently about feeling I was either turning a corner or going back the way – cos I was caught up and swept away in another wave of anger and frustration – I am glad to report that I think it was indeed a corner…I am now feeling so much stronger, like I have taken a great leap forward (not back! Yay!). Please keep posting Grace; you are a source of real grounding for me and I think what you have to say (as well as Nat’s posts, which goes without saying I hope, and many other commentators) are now really penetrating my consciousness.
“I essentially poured my heart out to him about every fear and doubt I had thinking it would help but it didn’t. There was no response from him for days. What kind of person does that to someone they say they loved? It was sadistic. ”
Hi Donna,
I am so sorry that this guy behaved in such a hurtful manner towards you. It says a lot about his character, doesn’t it? Maya Angelou said, “When someone shows you who they are the first time, BELIEVE them.”
I am also very sorry that you were sitting in your car crying and did not want to go inside of the gym. May I make a suggestion that I think might help? Ok, this is what you do:
Write a letter telling him exactly what you said in the text and address it to him, but do NOT mail it. Next, write a reply from him (for him) addressed to you saying all of the things that you wanted, hoped, and wished that he would have said in his response–if he would have written one. After you’ve read it, burn it and put every ounce of strength and energy that you have working on moving forward and letting him go.
Ooooh, I’ve never thought of writing a response letter to myself before, but it definitely sounds like a great exercise. Thanks!
Natalie,
You are a goddess with a flair for getting the message across…so glad I found you-you words have changed my life forever. Thank you! I look forward to each post-seems to dovetail nicely with what I am experiencing. The posts are like vitamins, making me feel stronger every time you post! xo
Yep, that’s what these guys–and relationships with people like these guys (whether they be based on friendship, family ties, or work; etc.)–can lead you to, and quite easily, when you are a FBG: the Downward Spiral. Which easily then leads to The Big “D”: depression, in whatever form(s).
Been there, done that. Yes, let it (all) go! Don’t let these professional vampires suck the lifeblood and spirit out of you, Grace and everyone else, ever again! It’s hard to find people with positive energy, happiness, and true empathy out there, but THIS is the key to life. Anyone who has ever known me or my family has not “lost out”–but WE did! They sucked us dry, and affected the way we deal with each other! NO MORE.
Okey dokey Grace, I can’t begin to top that. I did, however, have a similar experience with an emotionally abusive colleague that I thought I was in love with and that I thought I could explain his problems to him and he would get it. This phenonmenon of having the last word syndrome may be associated with the Miss Independent, Self Sufficient FBG. (So looking forward to that book Natalie.) Doncha love and cringe when you realized you called him in order to have the last word in order to PROVE you’ve moved on? I so did that. Just the fact that you are calling/texting/emailing him that you’ve moved on means you haven’t moved on. Having to have the last word means you haven’t moved on. Bottom line: “If you’re a respectable woman, you stop giving someone that disrespects you the time of day.” And I don’t need to say it or scream it or have the last word. I DO it.
Great article, haven’t posted for a while but this was a great reminder to keep on striving to get to the place I need to be.
I was a last word fanatic, a veritable post relationship psycho-analyze junkie, Truly I could spend a day going through texts to discover hidden nuances and meanings. No more.
I cannot control how he rationalizes the relationship to make himself feel better. I am not responsible for his lies or rewriting history or what crap he tells his friends… Above all I now realise that by needing to have the last word, I needed to have control and as a recovering Florence, more grabs of control were the last thing I needed.
I am a woman who every day tries to build on self respect and if they dont get that, be damned. I never used to use boundaries or cause consequences to happen…too scared…because then I would be left!!!
Instead I milked every last bit of meaning out of conversations, e mails, texts….often making them mean what I wanted them to mean…in an attempt to stay in a relationship. To stay in a sad, unsatisfactory, demeaning relationship, as was oft the case. Today I am single and happy, look forward to dating but slowly.
Wanted to say Natalie, this site was a support I needed last year and the great people on it. Glad to comment again. Much Thanks.
Donna I can totally relate as I’ve been dumped by text, not once but twice by two different ACs. I still don’t understand how these people can never regret it. How low can you get? And yet both my exes play the victim card and tell everyone lies that I’m the nutjob! Should I just start dumping guys by text too? They both have new partners, are my exes going to dump them by text too? Why do they sabotage a good thing and then verbally abuse me? It seems that all they care about is having another women already lined up?
I find it hilarious that my exes call me the nutjob. I’m not the one who’s going around dumping people by text because I’m a spineless AC.
Fed up, I never trust any man who calls his ex a nutjob. Thats one red flag I always listen to. I know being dumped via text sucks, my last guy just never contacted me again (at least not for 2 mths) so I was just left to figure out on my own that I was dumped from an exclusive relationship that he pursued. I would have preferred some ending even if it was just a text. I read a news article where a surrogate mother was texted by the baby’s parents that they no longer wanted the baby they contracted her to carry. They texted this to her in the 7th month of pregnancy, who does these things. Cowardly people thats who.
A few weeks ago I saw a poster announcing that a professor in my dept was giving a talk. Two years ago, this prof was on an early committee of mine. He is no longer on my committee because I got a zillion hints from the other two ctte members that he was disrespecting me behind my back. It took a while for me to get these hints, and in the meantime, we had a few one-on-one meetings where we discussed my ideas, one of them on my use of a particular term and how I think it described a whole shift in attitude at a certain point in history. He pooh-pooh’d the idea, indicating it wasn’t particularly current, though I chose to use the term in the title of my paper.
So what was this talk, that he gave yesterday, about? Hmm – it uses ‘my’ term, in the title of HIS paper. I went to the talk. Apparently “he has been developing this idea” but gave no sense of where he started thinking about it or why the term seemed to suddenly work to describe what he was applying it to.
So. I sat there. I listened. Yep, I think I could make a case for my ideas being the basis for his.
I thought, this is that old feeling. If I am looking for a fight, here’s one.
I fantasized briefly about standing up in the presentation and mentioning our discussions, or sending him a carefully phrased email quoting my own work and reminding him that he read it … just to see if he’d squirm …
But more strongly was the feeling: he’s not worth it. I have my gut suspicion, and that’s enough. I validate my own gut feelings. Do I need to ‘prove’ it? To prosecute? If that’s how he rolls, disparaging students’ ideas so that later he can take them and develop them himself, then . . . I already experienced that with the exAC, who would laugh at a suggestion of mine or knock it, then the next day I’d hear him telling friends what a great idea he’d happened to have …
And I already experienced what trying to have the last word got me in that situation …
The way for me to have the last word with this prof, I think, is not to make it about correcting him or exposing him, or anything to do with him, frankly. The last word is action, right? Action is putting my head down and doing what I want to with my own ideas and my own time.
So today I finished two proposals, sent them off and developed an abstract that distilled my dissertation into the cleanest, sweetest pitch I’ve managed so far. Onward!
The man I’m in love with, who has been abusing me with cheating and lies, moved into a house on my street just 7 doors down. He moved there this weekend, I found out as I drove home from work on Friday.
I broke NC which I started in mid-August. He was at my home two weeks ago with plan to visit me again before leaving town for work, however, last Friday night, by coincidense, I met another woman he has brought into relationship for past 5 months. Neither of us knew about each other – both led on and lied to. He did not apologise to me and we have been in a 14 month relationship. Seems instead, he tried to convince the other woman that I am crazy, etc. to patch up with her.
His last word/ action to me, basically is to torment me by living on my peaceful and beautiful street. Or some kind of odd move to continue to Control Me – even in a negative way.
I am drained, and I feel all of this throughout my whole being. I have been doing everything I can to come back into health. My last word to him is NC., and this in the face that he knows I must pass his now home every time I drive my car anywhere. There is no other road to take, we live on a peninsula… one road. Out of ALL the possible places he could have chosen to live in many nearby communities…. he picks 7 houses down.
I do think he had some other reasons to move here…. just prior of me meeting one of his secret lovers. Probably was going to continue using me, cheating and lieing. I had a second date with a new man tonight and the date went really well. Everything a gentleman would be and do. I must be patient, keep NC, and keep healing myself. My last word to this horrible man that I am trying to Un-Love, must be silence and NC.
Grace,
I just read your post and feel for you. I too, have had ‘cascading bad relationships’. Years ago I married a man who after the real honeymoon, started throwing violent temper tantrums every 3 1/2 weeks. Divorced him. My next relationship was with a man so extremely peaceful and calm.., but Oh No…. fit all the criteria for PSYCHOPATH. and I’m not kidding.
It took me five years of solitude and relationship abstinence to get over that one – which led me to my current predicament. I have accepted 14 months of being the secret girlfriend becuase I was so lonely and desparate for love from a man. He couldn’t quite break up with a former girlfriend. While I was being patient, and totally in Love and Faithful to this man…. he brought in another woman/victim into the mix. Lies, cheating, manipulation, careless behavior with no regard for anyone but himself.
I am trying to meet new people to date and have brought my values and boundaries right to the front again. I am also focusing on ME, and good things which make me happy and prosper. Grace, best to you & to me! PS I Love reading your posts.
I’ve maintained NC for some time. The e AC has moved in with his ex (one of many it appears) and I haven’t heard from him. He just cut me off. But – after some unpleasant symptoms I’ve discovered I have an STD. We had a 2 year ‘relationship’ and he swore we were exclusive. Clearly he lied and he must have been planning to move away with the ex for some time. My question is – should I let him know about the STD or just let him go on his merry way? I don’t want to send a text about something so devastating and if I phone him I feel he won’t pick up. I could call in to his workplace, but I really don’t know what to do. I feel very angry, humiliated and used.
Shattered, my heart goes out to you. This situation happened to me after being “exclusive” with a MM for six years. My doctor said he could have had it for a while and it was just luck that I didn’t get it in all that time–doesn’t mean he necessarily “cheated” (but hello, there is no such thing as an “honest” cheat.). Which brings me to my next point. I would bet my a** that your AC knew he had something. Either he was in denial or just didn’t give a sh*t about it or both. When I found out what happened to me there was an UGLY scene on the phone, with the MM drip feeding the truth–that he had had something thirty years ago in high school blah blah but his wife didn’t have anything blah blah and no he didn’t cheat on me blah blah blah and it was UGLY because I lost control and screamed at him that he was a liar, and that he could go eff himself. Not my best moment because I lost control, and because it took that situation for me to end it with him (two months NC now). I personally think your AC knows the deal — maybe that’s also why he “just cut you off” — he knew something was wrong health wise and he was the reason. Shame doesn’t like to show its face, my therapist said. In any case, do what’s right for YOU. As we know, stress is not good for our health. Take care of you, first. My opinion is that you don’t owe him anything and if you contact him, you are just opening yourself up to more stress and possible ugliness (what if he says you gave it to him, etc.?) And do you want to tell him “Just to get the last word” — an action which may feel like re-victimizing yourself? Again, take care of you. Sorry you are going through this — I truly understand. Hugs to you.
Shattered,
tell your ex you have an STD from him. Whilst you don’t want to contact him which is understandable, it’s simply good medical practice to try to stem the spread of STDs. The other thing you could do is to tell the STD clinic to contact him and give them his mobile number.
I don’t think you owe him a thing, but STDs are a society problem and by letting him know you are taking action on behalf of all those women who like yourself contract an STD hopefully not life threatening by some idiot man who takes his donkey all over town!
Shattered,
I believe you should tell him. While it’s possible he may already know, and be such a selfish, unaware person that he knowingly exposed you and now his current partner, and may proceed to do absolutely nothing to protect anyone in the future — that’s on him. But you are not that kind of person.
This is a matter of health, and there are women, as yet unknown, and men, too, who will enter this chain in the future, and they deserve the chance to protect themselves, and you are in a position to make that possible. Not certain, maybe not even probable, but possible.
I know that the emotional backstory, and your feelings now, make this communication difficult.
Nonetheless, I think it would be an act of kindness, courage, and compassion to clearly communicate the facts. I think it’s best done in writing, to keep it neutral, and on paper so that it’s not easily deleted without being read. An old-fashioned letter to his home or work, whichever hes most likely to receive and read. Sent certified mail so that you have assurance he received it without having to ask him. And, despite all you might want to say to him about his behavior, I think it should be unassailably factual and non-blaming. This is because your intent is not to say “you selfish $^$#, you slept around on me and gave me an std”; your intent is to make sure, as far as is in your power, that this doesn’t happen to anyone else in his or his partner’s future, and maybe even give his past partners a heads-up.
The facts:
— you have this std, and its symptoms are X in men and Y in women (some stds can be carried by men and only symptomatic in women, including one that can lead to cervical cancer, and if this is that one, you could save someone’s life)
— you believe you got it from him, but in any case he certainly has been exposed and there’s a high probability he can transmit it now and in the future if not treated
— you hope that he will get tested and also immediately protect any current partners by letting them know they might be exposed and should get tested/treated, and also by using a condom immediately and until both he and any current partners have been declared disease-free
— If this is herpes, things are slightly different in that it can be treated but not cured, and he will have to communicate and use condoms indefinitely
— Even if he thinks he is not the source, you hope he will give past partners a heads-up so they can protect themselves and their partners
— You don’t need a reply; you trust that he is man enough to do the right thing
Then resume nc. With clean karma and full integrity. best of luck xo
ixnay
I don’t think it should be sent to work. I open all my boss’ s post!
Shattered
you should tell him in case he doesn’t know. I’m the UK and I think the health service will contact him by letter if you prefer. don’t know if that’s the case where you live. Otherwise send him an email and keep it short:
“You should know that I have x and you should get yourself checked out. There’s no need to respond to me. ” Then ignore, ignore, ignore.
I don’t put it past these twerps to have an STD, KNOW they have it, pass it on to you, and then say you gave it to them! But the responsible thing to do is to discharge your duty of care.
And try not to see it as a stigma. It’s that attitude which is causing a massive rise in STDs as people bury their heads in the sand and assume that only “certain” kinds of people will catch it. Not true at all.
Call me paranoid, but I don’t believe she should put anything in writing, especially in an email. If health services can contact him, that’s what I would advise so that Shattered doesn’t go through any more pain. Also, I have heard that there is a website that will send an anonymous email about such matters — not sure about that other than I have heard of it . As far as karma goes, it’s my opinion that it’s all on him. Shattered can tell him yet he may still do nothing to protect his partners. The way to stop STDs is for all of us to protect ourselves (which I, sadly, did not do) and also to get tested and be upfront with potential partners (will AC’s do this? doubtful). It’s all down to personal responsibility. I’m all for Shattered taking care of herself in this situation and doing what is right for her and not think she has to do anything beyond that if she is too much of an emotional wreck to do so. Just finding out that one has an STD is devastating. That Shattered should have to go and track this bozo down to tell him what he did, in my opinion, is asking too much — but that’s simply my opinion.
I would want to know if the guy I had sex with was infected with a STD. I wouldn’t care if the info came via snail mail, work or home, email, or text from him or a clinic or his ex lover. In my opinion, STD’s are a health risk and all potentially affected individuals should know by whatever means. My mother died at 62 from cervical cancer via HPV. Not one of my father’s “lovers” informed her she was at risk. Just saying…
If I’m at risk of an STD, I want to know. I would be eternally grateful and so would my daughter. I don’t want to suffer the fate of my mother.
Runnergirl, I am sorry your mother had HPV and cervical cancer. I agree that in an ideal world, we would all want to know if our partner has an STD.
I think the thing that grates on me is that why are *we* held accountable *yet again* for some AC’s disgusting behavior. Because we are a *better* person? Or because we must be *mommy* and clean up after his disastrous messes? Granted, we played a role, too, but in my case and in Shattered’s, we were not the people shagging around (although protection should have been used–I own responsibility for that). What I will not own or accept is some society “rule” that says I *must* inform/confront the AC who gave it to me plus his other lovers/girlfriends. What I am advocating for is a means of communicating this diagnosis to its source (AC) that does not further demean, victimize, disempower the person who was the unfortunate recipient of the STD, as that person has enough to cope with at the time of diagnosis. Society *shouldn’t* stigmatize people with certain STDs, but there is still a stigma out there — that is a *reality.*
If there is a way that this communication can be done that protects Shattered from further pain, that would be great, as in the clinic doing the tracking down and informing. It will be difficult enough for Shattered (and myself) to have face-to-face conversations with future potential partners to let them know our health status, as *that* is definitely the *right* thing to do, as it is our *personal* responsibility. Those conversations, though, will (one hopes) come from a place of serenity and acceptance and education about the diagnosis and not from a place of stress, fear, and anger.
I felt like I should say something here and I think and I’m sure I’m not the only one thinking this, but there is a lot of irony in this situation and particularly in the context of this topic, which is a about the last word.
I’ve had hundreds of thousands of women over the years visit this site due to being the OW, something that has plenty of stigma attached to it, yet many still go ahead and do it anyway.
Equally there are so many people, OWs included who while trying to have the last word or be heard have copious discussions, arguments, showdowns, emails, texts etc, plus ending it, getting back together, hoping you will, being approached by them about getting back together, one last shag for old times sake and the list goes on.
It is one thing if you believe you were in a genuinely monogamous relationship and your partner cheats and leaves you with a STD. But if you participate in casual sex or sleep with someone else’s partner (let’s remember that there is no such thing as an honest cheat) and that sex is unprotected, the *least* you could do is let the person who gave it to you know. I don’t care how you do it whether it’s via an anonymous service, email whatever, but if you go bareback, being indignant about telling the person, (not taking out a double page ad and announcing it), is like closing the door after the horse has bolted.
It is one thing if you have no means of getting in touch with them but it’s a double standard to claim you love someone, to expect them to leave their wife, to have engaged in copious discussions about being together/getting back together and now, because it’s not a topic that you like or fits with your agenda, you take the moral high ground. It’s not up to you to let their partners know although you can if you wish, but it wouldn’t kill you to let *them* know even if it’s via the clinic but it may kill someone else if you say nothing at all.
I reckon that if you’re trying to have the last word you’re probably still in a place where you want to elicit a response.
Why bother? We could kill ourselves thinking up a killer blow to their ego but then when we get no response we feel rejected AGAIN or if they respond they may say something which triggers a need to reply.
Lose the drama I say and care about yourself.
I had an ex boyfriend write me a poison pen letter once detailing all the ways I was so rubbish, not sparing my unattractive personal appearance and habits! I read it, thought Ughh and put it in the bin. I didn’t spend hours dwelling on it and i didn’t make any particular effort to change apart from one habit. I knew what had happened between us, how I thought and what i felt and what I did. I ended our relationship be ause I didn’t love him or even care for him very much any more, why would I care so much what his opinion of me was? Thats the brutal reality of this kind of thing. I’ve never been the slightest bit tempted to “give someone their character” what is the point. It’s just undignified. They Don’t Care about you, and therefore they don’t care what you think of them, well maybe a little, but not much. Water off a ducks back.
Clover
I wrote one of those when I was a teenager. I wish I hadn’t, it was so mean! I hope he laughed if off like you did and threw it in the bin.
I understand the urge everyone, but don’t do it!
If they were emotionally healthy, they would not care about what we think about them. They would simply leave us alone to move on.
But it’s not their case. These emotional vampires take their energy from someone’s pain, so they would be delighted to see us in tears, telling them that they hurt us. They do care about what we think about them, and they hope to hear that they were not so bad, or that we know we deserve what they did.
I am not tempted to give the last word and tell the EUM what I think about him, just because I don’t want him to have the final pleasure, of being sure that he hurt me.
LOL ahhh the good ole poison pen letter. I’ve never gotten one, but I’ve written two in my adult life, both in the past year. One was to an ex (initially to provoke a response), and the other to my absentee father who kept hassling me (to end contact). Although I’m not sure if either of mine were truly poison, because rather than dwelling on their shortcomings, I focused more so on how their actions made me feel. But I did throw a few verbal daggers in there lol…at the end of the day, I don’t really know whether or not that person cares how they make you feel, and the only reason I think it helped me at all is because it forced me to face the pain that I had been avoiding and deal with it. I’ll never know whether or not it would have been better to just write them and keep/burn them, but it sure as hell made me feel a lot better…guess that was me trying to get the last word lol
Can relate so much to all the posts on here. I allowed myself to be stuffed around for years. I did everything I could to understand his actions and make every excuse in the world for them. I attempted NC on many occassions , six months being the longest occassion , however he would ultimately in one way or another con me again. The last occassion was so unbelievably painful for me . Anyhow he recently made a fool of me for the last time, ending in me actually smacking his face , something I haven’t previously ever done to anyone.Strange thing about it is , I don’t feel any guilt or regret for what I did, as I had experienced him treating me as a fool once too often, and knew in my heart he’d never be given the opportunity to do that again. I don’t intend to repeat that kind of behaviour ever again either.It’s strange because that is the last action he will see from me. Am I sorry for what I did , NO I’m not …has anyone else ever found themselves doing that , and if you did , how did you feel later ?
This post came just in time for me.
Almost every night this week I’ve written a long text, part pitiful (HOW could you do this to me??!) , part abusive (you are a sick bastard!) to my ex. Mercifully I haven’t sent it. I’ve cried lots, then saved it to my drafts folder only to delete it in the morning. So far so good!
I know NC is the best course of action, but I really want an explanation (although I suppose he can’t very well say, “I fooled you because I could!”) and an apology!!!! And then I want the last word (something about a horrible maggot ridden death for him!).
I just have to keep fighting the urge, huh?
Yes, Reggie, please keep fighting the urge!! Your texts are effectively a mini-version of the Unsent Letter. If you feel the need to write some more and vent your feelings in them, just keep saving them to your drafts folder and deleting them the next day – remember, the action of keeping NC speaks louder than a thousand words. I’m a great advocate of saving communications like this to draft, including e-mails, and revisiting them when you’ve calmed down/feel more positive/had some sleep. This applies to messages to family, friends and colleagues too. It’s amazing how different it all seems the next day when you’re looking at it from a fresh perspective.
I am feeling exactly the same way – the urge to have the last word.
It was a series of on and off, and the most recent time, he said he loved me. A while later, I discovered he (also my colleague) had impregnated his wife. And it has been silence ever since. I see him everyday and it’s all silence. I am dying so much for the last word. Feel like slapping him. Feel like scolding him. Especially when I think of how happy he will be with the new addition, the image of his happy family when the wife will finally give birth. I think I am going mad. Please tell me how to not have the last word.
Jean
He’s allowed to impregnate his wife. You’re not the person who was betrayed, she was. Nothing you say to him is going to make him less married or his wife less pregnant.
Yes it hurts but if you don’t step away you will only humiliate yourself further.
Jean,
I think the reason why we have this desire to have the last word and wanting “the upper hand” is because we think it’s going to make us feel better. It’s as if we think we get our pride and self respect back if we get the chance to express why we think they’re wrong. Unfortunately it’s not the case. You will not feel better. In fact you will end up feeling worse if you try and confront him because he will not be affected by whatever you say.
It hurts like hell but Nat is absolutely right. It’s only through your action. It is really through NC that you can show you do not deserve to be treated so poorly. It is actually by not not giving him any more time and attention that you can show you do not deserve to be lied to. He doesn’t care about you so why should you care about him?
i know it’s the hardest thing not to think about him having his “happy” life with the wife and baby while you are suffering (trust me you’re not mad, just broken hearted) but try as hard to distract yourself by focusing on you. You can move on and you will be happy again if you want to. Focus on your life not his.
I Have spent my weekend reading the forums,and what everyone is going thru.I know now I am far from being alone!
Yesterday I did not cry,I felt myslef weeling up but I went back to what NML said,and quickly recovered..
I am struggling with the no closure no goodbye thing,From all I have read,I know I can give my own closure,but my mind keeps twisted thinking back to why he dissapeared..Im even trying to make excuses for this Man,sick huh!!AT the end of the day,It was totally unacceptable and cowardly how he ended it…No excuse….I just want to heal faster and move in….and part of me thinks I will be stuck for a long time!
hi brenda, hope you are feeling better. If it helps, keep reading this blog or the book. or put a post it on your mirror or the wall you’ll see the minute you wake up. Don’t romanticize the feelings or isolated incidents of what he did for you. Remember him for who he really is. the disappointments and anger he has left you. No point talking, cos I am sure you have done so before. Did it work? I am betting on a no. yeah. *hugs* hang on. love ourselves more..!
Hi Brenda,
One of the shrinks said that there is no such thing as closure. how can you close something that has already happened (meaning it’s already over so there is nothing else anyone can do or say to change what has already happened). also please don’t think that you can find closure or rather a resolution from him. how can you find resolution from the source of the problem in the first place?
would you really want to know why he left? isn’t it enough that he left/disappeared? because really if you think about it, that’s already the answer. does there have to be any other reason than he wanted to leave. the only thing he can do is make excuses or lie and that’s not going to make you feel any better either. the only important thing you need to remember is it’s not your fault. If he wanted to leave there is nothing you could have done or said to change his mind. In the long run, you’d realise you’re better off. Healing takes time but you will heal and move on.
Brenda darling, please trust me, you will move on eventually! I was in your situation for the last three years, but THANKS to NML and my determination to forget AC, I finally moved on!
Time is the best healer:-) Keep reading Natalie’s books and articles, you will be in the better place!!!
(((Hugs)))
I don’t want the last word.
Yesterday, seven months after the bizarre disappearing act that ended our six months together (I can’t call it a relationship, as I thought we were in a relationship but she was just dating me) I got an email from her. Just some mundane details about her life, the sort of thing you might send to a casual friend. Nothing about me. It was just bizarre. Is this ‘pressing the reset button’?
I just deleted it. The fact that I no longer care enough to reply tells me I’m over it.
Weird. I dont get it. I really dont. After disappearing she contacts you six months later? If I am not romantically interested in someone, I break it off pretty quickly. I dont disappear, I dont contact that person later, I’m not one day in the next day out. I’ve broken up with my fair share but I have never once asked someone to just be friends or contacted them later just to get an ego stroke. I’ve been the fallback girl and I’ll admit that I’m EU too but I dont operate the way these clowns do.
j.d. I’m glad you didnt care enough to reply.
Yup, jd, sounds like the reset button to me. They chat like it’s a casual convo with a friend because they want to “keep it light”, i.e. pretend like nothing went down. You may have read in my comments what an ass my ex was and this very same guy tried to pop up with a text at one point (I think it’s when I was about 5 months NC) that read, “Hey {insert his nickname for me}” like we’d just spoken the day before. When I told him not to bother me, he said, “I just wanted to say hi.” The reason it feels bizarre is because it IS bizarre. You are clearly well over this girl – good for you!!
Definitely seems like reset button behavior if… especially if… she doesn’t acknowledge and discuss the fact that it has been six months since she has contacted you.
JD
Good for you!
I don’t get it either. the most hurtful thing is this “disappearing” act. they’re not even decent enough to say goodbye by text/email/phone/in person whatever and then they just appear again one way or another and act as if they haven’t been so gutless.
I think the great thing is not just that you didn’t care enough to reply to her but that you cared more about yourself.
I sent a text message to an AC I’d once dated, sending condolences for the passing of his mother. Months later, after seeing me out and my not giving him the time of day other than, “How are you?”, he sent a text saying something along the lines of: “I thought we were friends… ” … blah, blah, blah, meaning, “Why can’t we hook up?” I responded with, “I wish no harm to you, but we are not really friends.” You can be sorry somebody’s mama died, you can wish no harm on someone, but you don’t have to let that person back into your life.
This is where
Good user name!
“Let’s be friends … hook up”. They seldom spell it out QUITE that bluntly but it’s usually what they mean when they make the “friends” offer. I don’t think theyknow what a friend is. You and I might see a friend as someone you can trust and lean on. Someone you will support and care about. They see a friend as ENTERTAINMENT.
Annie Lennoxs’ song “Erased” says it well. 😀
After a long break I dared to enter a counsellor’s room wisened up with BR knowledge as I still suffer – though in a much more lessened degree – from anxiety.
I correlated the situation of finding the right person to work with to the dating situation treating our first encounters as “to get to know each other” seeing if expectations, values, their “theories” are matching. With down-tuned expectations all seemed to go well, but then I discovered that my counsellor had send the forms for meeting the costs to my health insurance after only two “dates” without checking in with me if I really want to put both feet in. I felt dumbfounded for a week, though I had already made up my mind to 80% for a “Yes, I dare it again with conditional trust” but still having some open questions to get answered. It hit me like a knockout when I realized that my boundaries were crossed. I mean, you have to be asked, haven’t you? Red flag alert. I am a bit confused how to go from here without getting into “telling them idiots all about them and what I’m through”.
I feel like cancelling all and everything (wouldn’t that be childish silent treatment and letting go of an opportunity?), then I think I have to go and tell it face-to-face. But I’m afraid to be talked back again into “discussing what it stands for and were it comes from” as a counsellor would rarely admit to have made a major mistake or apologize. It is always on their terms. But I am not willing to put their jumping my fence on my parents and it’s not my job to teach them basics, either.
There is great disappointment on my part as I thought I had eventually found a place to work from. My gut is pissed and telling me “RUN, DON’T ACCEPT BS NEITHER IN RELATIONSHIPS NOR IN COUNSELLING”. I really want to apply the wisdom of this site and trust my judgement.
So, my last word should better be an action like ……(still figuring out) …
@Arlena –
Work out a script that works for you, and practice it, and go in and speak to them very directly and personally. Your boundaries have TOTALLY been breached, and your counsellor – who should by now know your vulnerability – should have known better than to do that.
Your anger is completely justified. Don’t take it from them, and if I were you I’d find another practitioner.
@ Arlena
I didn’t really understand the problem here. Maybe it’s a simple misunderstanding? I don’t know where you’re located, so maybe it works differently there, but here in the U.S., if you have insurance, either your provider (the counselor) submits forms to get reimbursed, or you pay upfront and then get them to sign the reimbursement forms, and the money comes back to you instead of to them (because you already paid them directly). The difference is usually whether they’re “in-network” (a provider who is associated with your insurance company) or “out-of-network” (not associated, but licensed such that the insurance company will partially reimburse the cost). It’s usually considered a favor when the counselor themselves takes on the hassle of filling out the paperwork and sending it in as opposed to the client having to do that. And here, it’s not indicative of any assumption of ongoing commitment or long-term treatment to send in the forms. It just is the way to get the money for the 2 sessions that have already taken place. So I feel like I’m missing something here, but it could be that things work differently where you are.
The procedure here – European country – is that the health insurance pays for five sessions in a row (without forms) in which you can explore conditions and the chemistry. After that stage it gets committal and you decide if you agree on working together or not. THEN the forms procedure starts and after getting an “Okay” from the insurance the counselling starts. Even after the best of sessions the counsellor has to ask – not only out of courtesy – if I consent to working together. This step was left out and caused my anger. Busted boundaries in counselling hurt twice as much, I mean where to go from here and lick wounds? It’s as if I get my share of assclownery from the counselling field.
Arlena
My experience with counsellors is that they have been very respectful of my boundaries. They’ve told me upfront what they will charge, whether I will get a free session, whether they think they can help me, and double checked that I’m happy to continue with them. Always offered me a get-out moment “It’s down to chemistry and whether you think we can work together”.
You seem to have a bad penny there or he/she has assumed too much. If you feel it’s irretrievable, then give them a call to say you don’t wish to continue. As PJM suggested, write a script.
Don’t let this experience put you off counselling. When you find the right fit, it really is tremendously helpful.
Oh, I see. Thanks.
Grace, I didn’t laugh at all! What it did make me realise, mainly, was how spiteful, angry and vindictive he was to write a letter like that AND SEND IT. Everyone has these thoughts and maybe even writes them down – I may have done that myself – but to send it… ! I’d cross the street to avoid him if I ever saw him, even now, 20 years later. I’d hate anyone to think about me the way I think of him, (pity, revulsion, tiny bit of fear) therefore, no nasty letters for me.
I’d like to say also, I always like your posts! And fearless too.
I have been in NC for 5 months now. I started NC even before I moved out of our house (was owned by him). He wasn’t there anymore; he decided he was angry one night and took off to his parents house and never returned -which left me to do some explaining to my 14 yr old son. (My son is from a previous relationship.) Great example. When at first I was confused and asked if he was returning or what was going on, he’d play a game of ‘maybe/maybe not’. I was just flabbergasted at how irresponsible it was to do something like that – at the very least you’d think that after a couple days or even a week went by and he felt he didn’t want to return, he’d at least be man enough to have a discussion about it. From the time he left, he treated me so cruelly and practically ignored me- oh and went off with an old bed buddy too. After about a month and a half went by, I cut him off. For example, he dropped by a few times to check if he had mail. I remember 2 different times he knocked on the door and I just said ‘what do you want?’ without opening the door. He said he was there to check the mail. I grabbed the mail, opened the door enough for me to stick my arm through to hand it to him, didn’t even show my face and when he grabbed it, I slammed the door in his face.
Besides this, I realized prior to him leaving that he is selfish, lied about me to people and he would always do the hot & cold thing… etc., etc. He was an AC. I have learned a lot and am glad to be gone. This website has been a great help too.
I finally moved out several months after he left, as I had to save money and find a decent place, etc. I only text him a few times with respect to my move at the time of my move- and the texts were necessary & to the point. I only spoke to him once, because he called me and again, it was right at the end of my move-out, so I just stuck the the pertinent info and got right off the phone. Funny thing is that he was so cruel to me and couldn’t be bothered with me, yet when I was on the phone with him that one time when I moved out, he tried to act like he was my friend. He mentioned a couple of times in the conversation how good it was to talk to me (I think it was because I was actually giving him the time of day) and he tried to make a funny out of the situation by mentioning how he visited a restaurant that day that we used to go to for lunch often and the one waitress kept saying to him that I hadn’t arrived yet, not knowing that we were no longer together- making it like, isn’t that a funny situation? I am not sure if I am conveying properly the restaurant story- but my point is that it was just in such poor taste to me that I found it offensive and thought ‘This guy is so out of touch, something is seriously wrong.’
Anyway, during the short conversation, anytime he tried to be friendly or whatever, I dismissed it and went right into the point of whatever need to be said & got off the phone. I could tell he felt each time I dismissed him and wasn’t happy about it, by the sound of his voice.
Since the few texts pertaining to my move or that one phone discussion I just referred to, I have not contacted him once since. He has contacted me like 5 times now. 4 of them are about mail that came to the house for me and 1 was asking me for a phone number- which I thought was strange because I know if he needed this certain number so bad, he had other people he could get it from. Why ask me, especially when I have been having nothing to do with you at all?? So in these 5 texts – about the number thing and him feeling the need to tell me about every little piece of mail that comes to the house for me (I already had been driving by and checking the mailbox periodically when he wasn’t there), I have not responded to any of them. Not even a ‘thanks for telling me’ – nothing.
He doesn’t have a facebook page but sometimes I see updates of a mutual friend that has something to do with him. I am still angry at his treatment of me. I tried hard with him but always fought for my respect. When I did that and laid down the boundaries, I was doing something cruel to him don’t ya know! I obviously learned that I was using too many words and not enough actions in laying down my boundaries. I feel this desire sometimes to say something on my facebook about how much of an ass he is but I contain myself and don’t want to come off as an ass myself and I feel the strength in the silence. I feel like I have some power with the silence that I have upheld. Especially since he has text me many times and I haven’t given him the time of day. I certainly feel like I got the last word- or phrase- that being,”F*** you.”
Dear god J, your description with your ex, almost describes my 60 days after moving in with what turned out to be a verbally abusive ex to a T. After a solid year of total support while I was going through my 3rd divorce, I moved in with him in a house his parents owned with my 12 year old daughter. During the prior year, there was not one hint of his problems with verbal abuse. On the first night after we moved in together, he called me a f**king lunatic in front of my daughter. I was shell shocked. This wonderfully supportive guy went from supportive to critical to abusive in 60 days. After a few more verbally abusive incidents, I’ll spare you all the nasty details, he moved up the hill to his parent’s house. J, I kid you not. There I was, living alone with my 12 year old daughter in house his parents owned and he was living with his parents. I had some major explaining to do too. He would come to “visit”, getting his mail was his MO too. The best moment was when he showed up one day to get his mail and “visit”. I had a moving van packed and it was backing out of the drive way. I waved in the rear view mirror as the moving van left. Those were my last “words”. The guy is a colleague at the college and thanks to this blog and Natalie, I blank him totally when we pass in the hallway. Blank him J. And blank the urge to say F**k You. He isn’t worth the energy. Even a F**k you text is reassuring to these AC’s that you are still invested. Can you block him? As Natalie’s post describes, there’s no such thing as the last word.
This is awesome too!! Seriously.
Funny you should mention the supportive thing and then moving in and a sudden change… that exactly happened to me. Was with him for like a year and he was the most amazing man ever! Literally, I moved into a house with him that he owned and within a couple of weeks he started acting weird and it got worse & worse from there. It was like I didn’t even know him.
Amazing! Keep it up:) Seems like you made a lucky escape.
I agree with Nat about the futility of last-word-ism, but at the same time I’m glad I sent that polite, brief and adult email to the guy who did the disappearing act on me. It gave ME a chance to draw a line in the sand, because I had decided to give him a miss, even if he came back with apologies.
But I’m also really, REALLY glad he hasn’t replied to it!
Thank you so much for this post. Right now i am in a situation where i feel like i need to justify why i am a good woman and the best woman out there for “him”. Time and time again he keeps treating me badly and i keep thinking he will change he will change…and time and time again i keep saying i am good, i am the best. Truth be told i don’t need a man to validate me being the best..if you can’t see it with your own eyes then me convincing you is just plain pointless. If from one episode you saw the need to disrespect me and i did nothing about it, then you will continue to do it because i opened the door. I do not need to have the last word any more. Time for my silence to speak ..I have had enough which is why i have turned to this site for strength and guidance. It helped me before and no doubt it will help me again. Thanx
I really hope that one day all the people that have either disappeared or dumped someone by text, have the same thing done to them one day. One can only hope. I have zero empathy for people like that.
the worst ones are those who comes back and then disappear and then comes back again. those who disappeared and stayed away I think are at least tolerable.
Yeah I agree. I was broken up with by being ignored/silence and it is still one of the most painful things to think about. It just invalidates you as a person that you’re of so little worth that they can’t even say it’s over.
I am struggling today..As I write this the tears are flowing and I feel worthless..Pitiful huh!!When he dissapeared,I kinda got the last word when I went to his doorstep with everything he had at my place,and I knew he was there but would not open the door…I left a note telling him what a angry and sad man he is and a coward to boot!!WHY????WHY DO MEN CHOOSE THIS METHOD OF LEAVING?It is so destructive…I am having some good moments,but they are few and fleeting…I know this man was no good for me,so why amI so damn hurt….Its been 2 days NC…I damn near folded 68 times in 8 hours alone..But I didnt I kept my compusure….Why cany I see him for what he is,instead of making him out to be he something he is for sure not!!I just feel lost….
Stay strong. For your dignity and sanity, don’t fold. You can do it.
Dear Brenda,
I feel for you. Your sorrow is so great that tears can’t help but flow. It should make you feel better but instead you feel pathetic. You’re not pitiful and you’re not worthless. His actions doesn’t equal you’re worth and vice versa. The way he left doesn’t mean you’re worthless. He’s just gutless. I know it seems easier to just wallow in self-pity but try not to give in. Unfortunately loss does make you feel lost. Everything you are feeling is normal but don’t worry because you will recover.
It might be helpful if read about the psychology of love and attachment you would see that it’s all in our heads. It is human nature. When we attached to someone, there are chemicals that takes over our system. it has the effect of heroin. We experience withdrawal when this person is not there anymore because we associate the drug like feeling to this person. Even the putting this person on a pedestal is part of the effect. So when you find yourself dwelling on the “good parts” of him or the “loving memories”, try to snap out of it and instead focus on the way he left and hopefully this will keep you on the reality of the situation and the reality of this man.
Yes he’s a coward but you cared about him so of course you would hurt that he just disappeared. You hurting means you are human it doesn’t mean you’re a weak. You deserve a good cry. You do need to let it all out. Keeping it all in is more harmful you know. You are stronger than you think.
I have always talked to myself in those moments. I found that helped. From the beginning to now-months later- I still do it because I still have many moments of anger and pain. It is a different pain because it changes and you are in the beginning. I was in excruciating pain, I remember, like you. Close your eyes and let yourself feel the pain and tell yourself it’s ok, that this is only for right now; that it sucks but the more days that will go by, the better you will feel- stuff like that- however you want to do it. That of course you are going to feel this way, look what happened… etc. I find if I am hurting or want to fold, I talk to myself about how I’m feeling. It’s like putting it in front of you and sorting it out and then I find I can be rational about it. It brings things into perspective rather than just swirling around in the pain. This is so hard to explain into text. I hope I make sense and I hope I offered some relief.
Just a thought and one piece of advice – Beware of the last word – you may get such a hateful response it will send you into a tailspin. We think if we get in our ‘opinions’, our ” let me tell you what’s wrong with you!” and “This is what I really think of you, you AC!… ” – we will feel so much weight lifted….UNLESS you get a ” well I am with another woman who is so much “younger than”, prettier than” , “sexier than”, “better than” etc, etc…..or ” I never loved you” , “cared for you” “I used you, you fool! ” response. This has not happened to me – but to a friend who felt getting in the last word would make her feel powerful and enlightening ( yes, to an AC – enlightening, imagine? ) but having recently ended a relationship and am now in the second week of NC, I remind myself constantly of the agony my friend feels now after thinking her last words would make him feel badly or wake him up or whatever she thought it would do – make herself feel beter? It certainly did not – she never imagined he would be so cruel, but he was.
Whenever I even think about this painful experience, it grounds me and I am even more sure that NC is the only way to go and NO LAST WORDS.
FinallyCaughtOn, that is truly excellent advice. I’m so sorry that happened to your friend – talk about rubbing salt in the wound! As Nat says, no one reacts especially well to being told that they suck and if the guy is a bad guy, the response could be whatever the exact opposite of enlightening and liberating is.
finallycaughton,
you just demonstrated through sharing your friend’s experience why trying to have the last word is not just futile but also it could potentially bring even more pain.
need to remember that these kind of people who just disappears or end things horribly are people who DO NOT CARE. They didn’t want to talk or listen at all. so there is no point to talking to them or trying to make them talk about things.
I don’t know why I feel so tormented these past couple of days. I thought I was getting better there for a while. When I think of all the things I overlooked and forgave this man for I feel really robbed that he didn’t find me valuable enough to want to try. I don’t want to be a FBG, I won’t let him in my life again but I feel like someone who’s gotten third degree burns on 90% of her body. I once loaned this man $1000 to get out of some legal trouble. The story he told me involved him cashing a US federal income tax return check that a buddy of his had stolen. He assumed the identity of the owner and cashed the check. When he needed to get money to replace it (because otherwise he would go to jail), he got it from me! Not his family. He did pay me back the money when we broke up. As much as I know that theses things show an extreme lack of character, I wonder why he was able to tell me that he was tired of being pissed off at me all the time. Intellectually I know that I could have gotten tied to something shady in the future. But right now I still feel the pain of someone healing a life threatening burn. the effort is really ripping me of a lot of the joy in my life. Meanwhile he gets to live and laugh it up. I hope there is such a thing as karma.
Donna,
I felt the same way – why did he not want me? The fact is, and I think everyone here will agree, he is not capable of it. YOU are not the problem and trust me, you are LUCKY he paid you back. My AC never borrowed money, but because he was not working, I paid the way for our evenings out ( when there was one ), dinners out at nice places, I even bought food for his fridge! He said he was so broke, he couldn’t afford decent food at his place so me, the dope, stocked his kitchen ( truthfully, I don’t eat junk food like he did so I ate too BUT..) come to find out…… he just bought himself a new diamond earring for himself, a new washing machine ( his went out months ago – I realize now he waited til I stepped on out before he bought the new one – I might have caught on he wasn’t as broke as all that ) and he is back to dating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He has the money for that….. I felt like a used fool, but I KNOW it was not me. I was only a fool for loving a man incapable of a meaningful, committed relationship. I understand the torment of knowing he is “out there, laughing it up” and having a great life ( cough, cough ) . But know this: it was not you, this too shall pass and he will never have a great life – because he is not capabale of one. Period.
Hope this helps, hon. I know you are in pain. The longer time goes by, the easier it will get. Just try and remember you deserve better and you will find it. 🙂
I totally know what you mean by feeling injured physically. One of the worst things I experienced with the one AC I had (that lasted way past its expiration date) was feeling like I had something heavy sitting on my chest at all times, my heart physically ached, and I felt very weighed down. Up to that point, I didn’t know it was possible to physically hurt from being emotionally hurt. But it is.
I would say treat yourself very kindly. Talk to yourself like you would talk to your best friend who needed your support.
Have you read Women Who Love Too Much by Robin Norwood? It’s a good, helpful read.
Don’t let a guy who cashed stolen checks while pretending to be someone else decide YOUR value. Who the hell is he anyway? This guy sounds like a sleaze bag. Why do you feel like his opinion is what defines you? YOU define you. He is a flushable chunk…….hit the flush button and watch him swirl. You will have emotional ups and downs but things do get better gradually. Try not to spend time beating yourself up….instead remember you are above this guy and you don’t need to go down in the gutter with him ever again. Let him live in the filthy gutter by himself or with other gutter rats. You belong in the sunshine.
I’m with jennynic: this guy isn’t your biggest problem. Focus on the fact that you allowed yourself to support a guy’s involvement in fraud and theft. Start thinking about how that happened and how you can prevent it from ever happening again. You’ll start to feel anger at yourself, too, and that may be even more painful. But it’s the way out of the pain you’re in now. You can do it!
Thanks, Jennynic,
Reading the words “flushable chunk” actually made me laugh yesterday. Healing seems to be a bunch of highs and lows. I have to remember that I shouldn’t allow myself to feel judged by someone who has a history of poor judgement and bad decisions/shady behavior. He told me he wanted things to be a bit easier and he didn’t want to be pissed all the time. It seems like he was making me responsible for his constant bad mood brought on by unresolved issues he had. He told me many times that when he was with me he would forget about his problems but when we fought I just became another problem. I think he put too much responsibility on me for changing his mood.
For all those who are tempted to have the last word: I tried to have the last word with the Ex-AC via a letter 6 months after a horrid break up (I know I know, I actually sent it – doh). I found the letter the other night when cleaning out junk from my computer and had a read of it and a good giggle at how far I had come.
Although I tried not to be neurotic and abusive (and to some extent managed it), the 1.5 A4 page spelling out why he was an AC and how his behaviour was shoddy (and it took a few drafts to get it down the minimum saying all i wanted to say, ha!) could have been summed up in a sentence or two along the lines of “I dont want to date someone like you, I can do better and be happier without you”
Anyways it fell on deaf ears (funny that eh) as he read it and then first emailed me (despite me asking him not to contact me) in a flirty manner as if he had read a totally different letter ?!, then he emailed again…then before I knew it we were meeting up. We didn’t get back together, but I am ashamed to admit he dangled the possibility and I jumped at it and kept holding on to that for another few months before the penny dropped (or I was too embarassed to tell yet another friend I was considering getting back with him)
He admitted to me then that he shread the letter – and his subsequent behaviour just highlighted how nothing I had said made any difference to him. It did *not* make him sit up and think how his behaviour was shoddy. It did *not* mark the beginnings of a beautiful relationship second time around. And whilst it did feel good to stand up for myself and spell out what behaviour I didn’t want (having been so passive and a doormat whilst dating), I realise now this was pretty pointless at the *end* of the relationship, it was something I should have been doing right from the beginning.
Well live and learn I guess… Hopefully if I ever manage another relationship I will put into practice what I have learnt.
Incidentallly I did get an apology for his behaviour about another 10 months into NC – indicating that perhaps he had started to think about his behaviour off his own back with no prompting from me. However, it was still a shoddy attempt at an apology. But even it it was written in blood and delivered on his knees he would still be an AC. FLUSH!!!!!
Very good illustration of what ACs do with our pain. They look at it, don’t take it in, and shred. Yours even had the nerve to flirt with you after that: I hate that behaviour. It’s very woman-hating.
I once was trying to do some anti-violence-against-women work in a college I was part of. One of the guys with the biggest egos, intimidating CV, big motorcycle, etc etc who had gaggles of pretty girls waiting for his crumbs, more than once tried his swagger flirt thing with me. At the time I didn’t know enough to yawn in his face; instead, I brushed him off with annoyance. It showed he got under my skin – drat. Then, when in a professional context we started talking about the conduct of men toward women in our institution, I could tell he felt awkward. You know what he did, of course. He asked me out.
Oh, I went. (Again, should have yawned and told him something he could understand, like that I would be doing my nails. But he guessed right about my appetite for crumbs.) I listened to him bluster and not really take me seriously about the anti-violence stuff I tried to seriously discuss.
There was no getting in a real word, a true word, on institutionalized sexism with this guy! He thrives on a sexist work environment. It *works* for him.
That was my eye-opener about how some guys will come on even stronger to dispel the feeling that you’re right about them being an asshole, even if what they’re an ass about is how aggressively they come on to women. They get it in their heads that you’re complaining about them “coming on” to so many women because you’re just desperate for them to come on to you.
I may be projecting. It sounds like your guy pulled the same dismissive shit, taking your letter as just you not being able to get enough of him. His apology is worth nothing, really.
I also learned the hard way that anti-violence work has to be much more than just lecturing bad boys, whether they’re cocky young men, narcissistic middle-aged men, or dirty old men, about their behaviour. They’ve heard the lecture. They. Don’t. Give. A. Shit.
Big ego, intimidating CV, big motorcycle – yup got it in one. Interesting point about the woman hating. He certainly was dismissive of anything I did – even things that other people were proud of me for, he would be patronising towards me. I think certain work environments allow this ego-ness to thrive (academia, medicine etc?) guess it is rewarded so why stop?
I did snort with laughter about him asking you after all you said – i guess this is the AC version of trying to be the exception to the rule *yes I know 99.9% of egotistical women haters are not worth dating, but hey, i’m the 0.01% who its worth giving a try with* – erm no thanks!
I sooo want the last word, but I know I am not going to I have been dating this man for 3 months, I think this has been my epiphany relationship, after 8 years on/off with an AC (I wish I had found this site sooner) I swore off men, but I was pursued relentlessly, then we had the fast forward, the future fake (marriage) the goalposts were moved (he didn’t want children even though I arrived with them, they didnt just evolve 8 weeks into us seeing each other. He also tells lies, not just about where he’s been but whole fabrications to make himself ‘badder’ (he has a ‘bad boy’ reputation) once he told me he was somewhere far away, for me to see him walking out of his house 15 minutes later!! But the other stories were outrageous lies and I knew this and I did not challenge it (!)
He used to call me beautiful but this stopped, but he always made sure I knew if he found other women attractive, yet if I tried the same thing in jest it would be, ‘well you go then’!
I tried to break it off the first time, but went back, yesterday though I did say if he wasn’t prepared to give 100% then theres the door.
He is also in constant communication with his ex, he will show me the texts and they are all digs and jibes at each other but why?? surely if you are over your ex then why communicate or respond, my ex (the 8 year) tried contacting me all the time usually using the children as an excuse, I just changed my number !! Peace.. (he does have my landline if he ever wants to be a dad).The most recent ‘boyfriend’ happy for me to shop for him, sleep with him, yet tell me ‘he didn’t see a future’ I suppose I should give him a little credit there, yet I still ignored it, in the hope it would get better, he would see how great I am, yada yada yada..
so why do I still obsess about him?I have checked my phone a hundred times today.. I wish I had never met him.. yet I know I will get through it, and its down to Nat and all you on here..
I can’t believe the nerve of these ACs, who do this horrible things and then try and then push the restart button! Who the he’ll do they think they are? I hope that doesn’t happen to me again.
I have to say that I really want the last word. I am the unfortunate one who got involved (but no affair) with a MM. He came on hot and heavy initially, then, proceeded to pull back towards the end of summer, all the while claiming how much he liked and missed me. He was busy with “lodge” these past couple of week and sent me a TM on Friday, telling me how much he missed me and how he was looking forward to things getting back to “normal.” Fast forward to Sunday morning at church. I saw him, said hello and was pleasant but just couldn’t bring myself to really speak with him. I felt him staring at me all through church. Last night, I texted him, asking him what he meant by getting back to “normal.” Normal to him means texting and chatting on the phone. He then asked me what was up in church and why didn’t I make eye contact with him? I jokingly replied that perhaps he just wasn’t looking at me. He didn’t like that and replied back that I wasn’t being forthright and that it was annoying. Tonight, he texted that he wasn’t angry, annoyed with or tired of me – just that our church “interaction” wasn’t what he expected…what did he expect? Me to jump in his lap? I so want to have the last word with him, and then NC…I hope I can get to that point very soon.
Amy
I remained friends with a married colleague. We email each other less than twice a year. Mainly family news, how his daughter is doing, how my nieces are, what his wife is up to. Career updates, sometimes advice in a crisis (such as when I was made redundant). We don’t flirt, we don’t text. I suggest that this is “normal”. Texting a MM every day or even several times a week is not. Also, you and your MM have crossed the line. The opportunity for you and “your” MM to be just friends has been and gone. Don’t pretend to yourself that this texting etc is harmless. It isn’t.
Amy,
“I jokingly replied that perhaps he just wasn’t looking at me. He didn’t like that and replied back that I wasn’t being forthright and that it was annoying.”
He’s right, you’re not being forthright. You’re playing games.
For your sake (but mostly, his wife’s sake, to whom he made vows… in a church before God, I presume?), I hope he finds it ‘annoying’ enough to cut the crap.
But I won’t hold my breath. He’ll pursue you alright, for as long as you show him a terribly unconvincing closed door..
Hypocrisy and emotional immaturity comes to mind.
Heartache Amy
the point of this post is to remind us that ‘the last word’ is not something we should get hung up about. Forgive my bluntness, but your ‘what didn’t happen in church’ story reminded me of two teenagers making a whole love drama out of ‘nothing happening in class’:
Him: What’s up with you, I was lookin at you in class and you weren’t lookin back at me?!
Her: I *was* lookin at you in class but when I was lookin at you, you weren’t lookin at me.
Him: Well, ah think you’re just trying to wind me up and playing hard to get and ah don’t like being ignored by you no looking at me when am lookin at you like you fink you’re special or somefin!
Jeeze, Amy – you are two grown adults and one of you is MARRIED! There can be NO such thing as “normal” here. This situation is not a game; at the moment you imagine you are in an exciting discovery phase (the ‘does he, doesn’t he, will he won’t he’ – oh! the thrill of it all! He doesn’t! It’s a foregone conclusion. He’s married!) Only thing you’re going to discover is that he is playing games with you, you are letting him and that this’ll all come at a heavy price – for you! And the longer you persist in engaging with it the bigger hole you are digging for yourself – and at some point you’re gonna have to climb out of that hole – so do yourself a big favour: get your head out of Cloud Cuckoo Land and put your spade down before you get any deeper in the shit.
fearless
Were you the voice in my head when I was texting the MM last year? I remember thinking “This is bonkers, I’m a 45 year old woman TEXTING”.
My last word was my deafening silence as I booted him off my facebook and deleted him from my phone. Like you said, it was all so juvenile. Yet dangerous.
Hee hee Grace, no I was the woman in my own head all those times I thought exactly the same thing: WTF is going on here… I am a grown woman and I am having (or trying to have.. err.. no ‘force’ actually) a ‘relationship’ discussion with (‘upon’ more like) a grown man – by text, for the millionth time (a man whose sole objective is not to have the discussion) Duh! And we wonder how we got here! Duh. (these relationships create nothing but a seething ball of fury that keeps gathering more madness until we finally say ‘enough’ please I want off the crazy bus now.)
tehehe fearless. I hear you…too true!
Fearless,
You’re absolutely right. It is a game, or at least it’s become a game, and I’m definitely not happy about it. It’s silly and dangerous and already I’ve gotten hurt. And that’s the problem: he’s an emotionally abusive jerk masquerading as a funny, cute church-going Australian man. And I fell for him. I wish I hadn’t but I was vulnerable at the time. Now I’m paying for it and it’s very painful for me. I’m angry and sad and I have this weight on my chest.
I wish I would have read this yesterday BEFORE I decided to send another email to a particular someone. Now, I feel quite foolish. Now I know better.
I love your articles, they’ve helped me a great deal through my separation. Keep them coming.
My ex EUM text me the other day after not even having been broken up one week (it was more like 5 days) with some stupid dream that he said he had with me. At first i was like: Is this is his stupid passive way of seeing if i will respond or his way of reaching out to me? Since NC is still new, I did text back and was like: Is that you’re way of asking me how im doing? Im fine thanks.
I set myself up because his response was: I’m glad your fine (smiley face) but no, it was just a weird dream i wanted to share. (WHAT A FREAKN PASSIVE LIAR!!!)
I so wanted to have the last word and be like ‘You’re a complete ASS and a liar! You know you text me as your passive aggressive way to get an ego stroke and to see if you could still have one foot in the door! It was really you’re way of seeing if i would respond.
But since I was so mad at myself for even responding (hey it takes time, only 5 days of NC) I CHOSE to not say a word back!
While I felt good for not saying anything back, I can’t say that i dont secretly harbor the desire to want to hear from him again even if i dont respond. I’m not gonna lie and say that although I logically know he was an ASSCLOWN, why its still so painful to me. Is it because we are mourning someone that never really existed? He created these feelings in the beginning and I so want to find the *right* man who means what he says and who I can actually have a relationship with where these feelings could actually be meant and are real. This just feels so cruel to pretend you are someone and then it turns out you are really aren’t this person. Is this why it’s so painful? I dont even know what I’m grieving anymore. The *idea* of this man, or who i was before I met him. It has completely ruined the self esteem I had and im trying every day to get it back. I feel sad and depressed because I got so excited that I met someone who not only i was attracted to but that seemed to have a lot of the qualities that I was looking for in someone (until of course I saw the other side of him) Is it normal to feel this?
I’m glad i didn’t have the last word or better yet, that my NO RESPONSE was my last word. But Why o Why do we still want them to get in touch? And can FBG’s change this?
Confused2
As you say, it’s only five days NC (and you broke it already! Ooops – it happens). Be wary of faux NC. Mostly we are kidding ourselves on at the start with NC (we perhaps want to elicit a reaction). The longer you actually stick with NC the more all of these questions you have be answered. You’ll care less and less as he fades into the distance.
I know it’s confusing when they get in touch so soon after a breakup. My ex-AC waited a whole 3 days to contact me after we broke up. I didn’t know about Baggage Reclaim at the time, and I really wish I had.
Yes, they want to see if you will respond/keep a foot in the door/see if you have moved on, etc. I made the mistake of thinking he wanted me back, but was just hesitant to say it. I made the mistake of thinking this for 4 whole months before I finally saw the light.
You already sound a lot wiser than I was back then. But I can say this from experience. Most likely, they won’t step up and admit they are just seeing if they can get a response. And any sort of relationship with them outside of dating won’t be better just because you have removed the romance from the situation. They will actually be a worse “friend” than they were a boyfriend.
I do believe I continued contact because I was still looking for that “wonderful” person I thought I met at the beginning. Guess what, he never showed up again. And, instead of grieving the breakup and moving on, I stayed stuck 4 more months and beyond, because my self-esteem took a battering staying in such an unhealthy relationship, waiting for the “idea” of him to re-appear.
I believe what you are feeling is pretty much what a lot of us have experience here, so I hope you will take heart that it will get better.
And I am so glad you didn’t respond back. You will find that the next time he tries to contact you, if you feel compelled to respond, wait a bit, then wait some more. The more time that passes, the less you will feel the need to say what you just thought you just had to say in that moment.
Hi Runner Girl,
Just wanted to say “Thank you” for your thoughtful and inspiring words.
I am so very glad to know that you are here and that together, along with many others, we are sharing this struggle with one another. Stay strong.
Many hugs to you 🙂
Great post.
My ex brings up ‘our’ past ALL the time (as I rambled about in the comments previous) and tells me he believes I am still in love with him. Tells me that ‘everyone’ he talks to thinks I am jealous and catty- due to my actions regarding the access to our child. It isn’t true of course, I have always been beyond fair (we have a legal agreement) and kind to him regarding child access.
So annoyingly I have to tell him frankly, not-so-politely and quickly and to the point, that I have ‘no interest in him’ and that the only reason he is at all in my life is simply to do with my daughter. If she was not in the picture I would never speak to him again.
HOWEVER despite no contact – other than for parenting purposes – he NEVER seems to let it go.
I can’t understand his constant need to rehash our past as he’s been with another woman for the last 2 years almost on-and-off as it is very clear he still is the same dysfunctional man and she is co-pilot to the disaster of that relationship .
I honestly don’t care what he thinks of me. I do not need his respect or approval as I have healed myself and feel completely fulfilled in my life. I have self-esteem so outsiders who do not know me – their opinions mean nothing to me. Nor does his opinion of me or whatever he tells other people about me. It is just extremely annoying (like a danged mosquito) that he needs to bring up ‘our’ past in some attempt to make himself feel better. I know he has low self-esteem and needs validation from others to make himself feel good but I refuse to allow him to falsely believe I am some how still waiting around for him. I have a new wonderful good man in my life!
barbara
Even telling him you’re not interested may be too much. Can you ignore it?
“I think you still love me barbara”
“Right, okay”
“It’s the way you look at me”
“Hmmm”
“You feel it B”
“Okay, well I need to start cooking dinner”
I was thinking the same thing…
“Everyone thinks you are jealous and catty.”
“Oh, good, ok thanks for sharing.”
“I believe you are still in love with me.”
“Oh, good, that’s nice. So you’ll drop her off at 8, right?”
Something else I learned from an actor friend of mine that is fun is to repeat everything they say back to them, eventually, they will say something different and the conversation will change direction.
Sometimes people don’t actually hear how ridiculous what they are saying is until they hear it repeated back to them…multiple times, lol.
Barbara
“My ex brings up ‘our’ past ALL the time”
What I m confused about is how this man gets so much opportunity to irritate you by bringing up the past all the time. If you don’t want anymore contact than is necessary for the well-being of the child, then don’t give it to him.
I think they just like to see us react to them, positively or negatively, it doesn’t matter, they will interpret it to mean we still have feelings for them. And on some level, maybe he needs to believe that to keep his delusions of grandeur alive.
My ex-husband, who I had not had contact with in 15 years, tried to “friend” me on Facebook. I ignored it. Then he got a mutual friend to contact me, and find out if I still had feelings for him. I told the mutual friend I really didn’t have any feelings at all anymore, good or bad, just didn’t see any friendship potential based on our bad marriage. Mutual friend even wanted me to dish up some dirt on him, but I refused, saying I hadn’t spoken to him in so long, who was I to say anything about his character now. Mutual friend then tells me he said I was “scared” to talk to him. Sounded like bait to me, so I did not react. Mutual friend then gives him my phone number (after I said not to). He left a couple of voice mails, which I also ignored, and then I proceeded to ignore mutual friend, as my boundaries had been violated.
I know in your case not talking is not an option, but perhaps you could become completely deaf to whatever relationship issues he brings up, and respond with a comment on something else entirely. Protesting his delusions will only feed into it, I’m afraid, because it sounds like he is just looking for a reaction, ANY reaction.
I had a similar experience when I was in driving into a parking lot of a mall, this car was blocking the way because the driver was talking to someone. I didn’t know how long she was going to talk to this person so as I tried to drive around her she starts driving off without looking and nearly hit me. I moved on and parked and I went into the bank.
Next minute, this woman barges in and starts yelling were you the one who drove a BMW (it’s not mine it was my boss’) I said yes. and then she starts yelling abuse about how I didn’t know how to drive and I should go back to my own country, calling me a b-word etc. I couldn’t get a word in so I just let her go on and make a scene. Everyone was in the bank was in shock. In this scene, I wasn’t going to try have the last word but I did want to explain what I was trying to do and apologise for offending her but I didn’t want to apologise anymore after taking in the abuse. I was shaking and very upset but I just went on (the people in the bank were sympathetic). I felt bad that I didn’t stand up for myself but everyone said to me there is no way this woman would let me speak or hear me out.
There is no way you can reason with people when they’re being irrational. People like this thrive on drama and having the last word. No one can convince them to see another person’s point of view or consider another person’s feelings.
And the thing isthese people always have someone else waiting in the wings. From my experience they’re always in another relationship straight away. They screw us over, but still seem to win.
fedup, i get . what you mean about them moving on to the people that will have them straight away but does that necessarily mean they “won”?
Is moving on a competition and are there really “winners” and “losers”? coz that’s what trying to have the last word is all about isn’t it?–whoever gets the last word in is the “winner” but Nat is saying this is futile. I’m just thinking that maybe if we don’t think about trying to win then that’s when we get peace and this will help people move on better.
Confused2, probably a combination of low self esteem, wanting your investment to pay off, and denial. For me, everything comes back to self esteem, I didn’t used to see it that way either. Right now I usually think of it in terms of self trust, but that equals esteem. For you (and I) to not take action and reject the hot/cold etc, basically means we didn’t trust ourselves to take control over our own happiness and mental health.. Even if we were unhappy or thought about stuff like knowing we wanted to be treated better, demanding it even (which can sound like good esteem). We still left it in their hands. Our happiness. Our sanity. Their hands. Im sure there are many different back story reasons but they all seem to lead back to that, to me. When you ask why you would still want him back sometimes. I think of denial. You dont want him, you want some version of him that isn’t real.
Focus on you. Learn what you do want. At some point, try enforcing a boundary with someone. It’s quite empowering. And builds a foundation of self trust. That’s when everything started coming together for me. Now I’m almost to a place where I can relax, because I pretty much can trust that my boundry alarms function, and if they ring.. I can take action.
Try not to beat yourself up that you responded. Don’t worry about what you prove to him, NC is about you, and as long as you stay aware of yourself, want change in your life, and take baby steps toward it, you are going to get there.
First I’d like to thank Natalie for writing so many articles that have helped me; I appreciate your well-earned wisdom. I am gay and had an emotionally traumatic experience two months ago when I discovered my lover had lied to me about something pretty big. I decided to institute ‘no contact,’ and it has been a powerful tool for regaining equilibrium. Here’s how I did it: I sent the no-contact email, and then I blocked her email and phone number so that I couldn’t receive her response if she decided to have the last word. This gave me the ILLUSION of having the last word, and it was very satisfying. 🙂
I have been reading the posts here for days!Its the only thing that is giving me any comfort.
I am still in a world of pain as I the guy I was with just dissapeared,no goodnye no nothing.We had broken up before but he always called me back,but this he is ignoring me at all costs.
I am trying to convince myself that its his issues,which he has a ton,Aworkaholic,HATES HIS MOTHER,has anger issues,vindictive etc..
I guess it makes me sad as we did have some amazing times,more than the bad ones…I am trying to move and heal but its so hard,I am isolating myself at home,I feelm as if I am just existing..I broke down all called his step mom today in tears,I guess
I guess I wanted to know if she knew anything,all she said is That he wont call…She said he never said a word,but who knows..I feel stupid for calling her…I am going theu so much right now its hard to even breath..I wish at times I could go to sleep and never wake up…
NATALIE, this is the best article ever! I love what you said: “The last word is action”. “I’m moving on, I’m done, you’re not worth my time and energy, I’m not engaging and the door is closed.”
That’s what I did with my AC few months ago, I closed the “door”, sent him a text that I am leaving and wish him luck. He never called or replied to my message. Thanks GOD, he finally “got a message” that I do not want him anymore! I feel great and FREE! Thank you NML, I love your site and was your fan for 3 years:-)
So true. Nothing I ever said made a difference. He still wasn’t going to change as he said. My only option was to leave and not talk to him again. Still feel sad over it all, but nothing I did made him realize what he was doing to me or how he had hurt me. Plus, I had let him into my life twice before after him leaving me, so I gave him the message that he could walk out and in whenever he wanted. Then I tried to keep him by giving more and treating him like a king in my home. He ate it all up and always let me know that he would leave again if I didn’t dance to his tune. Like a child who runs away from home and the parents cave in, give into demands and spoil him or her and then try to enforce rules after the child comes home. Too late – the message is clear. The child (AC) won.
Hello everyone.
I wanted to say that this website is so amazing. Natalie I want to seriously thank you for writing these posts. I have made them part of my daily routine since I started NC 18 days ago. Sometimes when the waves hit, and I feel like i dont know if ive done the right thing, I rush my ass to this website and give my self a healthy dose of Natalies reality checks. I would really like to become a part of the sharing here, as I feel like I really need to be part of a group where there is a common denominator. Assclowns. and Mr. Unavailables…I wrote out my story today, which was a little healing on its own..but I would love it if others would read it and comment, so that you would all know the background on my story, and I could post here and maybe make a few new friends to chat too. I hope im not breaking any rules by posting this link here, but, I tried to post this whole thing here earlier today and it wouldnt fit.
I would really appreciate if you guys would take some time to read and comment, as I am now wondering if he really IS an Assclown and a Mr. Unavailable, if it even matters, or if im unfairly labelling him into these categories.
Thanks.. and by the way ..I dont make money or anything from this blog,..it just wouldnt fit here …lol…
Cheers
HSN
HSN
Emotionally unavailable and a bit of a user.
Clues:
future faking
hot and cold
dumps you when you’re pregnant but wants to stay friends. Erm, no!
the ambiguous break up
has sex with you but blows you off
dips in and out of your life
More worrying, you don’t seem to have any boundaries. Stick with the NC. Good decision.
As for ” unfair labelling”, a long time ago before the term EU was in wide use, and when people thought this behaviour “normal” (and many still do), I would simply say “He doesn’t love you”. However you want to categorise him, he certainly doesn’t love you. I hope this doesn’t come as a shock to you, I think you may suspect it already.
HSN,
I replied to your original post. I may have been a bit too understated because I don’t have any experience relative to your escort experience. I would like very much to support your 18 days of NC, however. I also don’t want to sound like a broken record. You must read Natalie’s new edition of Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. I read your post at the above link and I wanted to cry, for you and for me. You’ve been sold down the river like I have and most FBG’s. It doesn’t matter how these clowns are labelled, he hasn’t been there for you. PERIOD. You drove yourself home after terminating your pregnancy. Label that whatever it is. His words pale in comparison to his actions. Everytime I open Nat’s new book I am stunned. See if Nat’s words apply to you: “All the fancy things, gestures, and words don’t mean a thing if you still end up confused, miserable, upset, and struggling with ambiguity or settling for crumbs. Make sure he is walking the walk, not just talking the talk.” From the outside, client guy is selling you words and crumbs. He’s an AC of the highest order. Stop buying. Stay NC and focus on you and your kids. HSN, you can get out of the noose. You’ve left the abusive pimp and you can leave this client dude who is using a pimp service, right? I’m so sorry for the next women he encounters. Let’s let it not be any of us, including YOU. You are better than this and your children deserve better. How old are your children? I wish I could hug them. Give them all a hug for me.
And a cheese sandwich doesn’t cut it. I got clam chowder, the Ralphs brand and only one can.
Runnergirl..
Thank you so much for the kind words..It feels good to know that someone is listening..Thanks about the now 19!!! (yay!) days of NC. I am slowly starting to see that he was at the least an assclown and an EUM, and at his worst abusive. Its odd, and scary to see how much your brain normalizes things….big things..things that you should never think of as “normal” behaviour.
Sorry, I couldnt see your post..Im still figuring out how this works here with the replies. I can only see one at a time for some reason.
BTW…I had a cheese sandwich. AND tomato soup. LOL. i forgot about the soup. PAINT ME LUCKY!!…lol.
Hi Grace,
Thanks for the reply..
I do know deep down that there was never any love there for him towards me. It still isnt easy to hear. Im sticking to the no contact, thats something that strangely, I havent had the urge to break. I have waves everyday of ..I wonder what hes doing?..I wonder who hes with..which leads to how come he hasnt broken no contact yet?..Has he suddenly become respectful?…or does he honestly believe that I will be back after I have “healed” so that “we can find a relationship that works for both of us.?” like he stated in his last text?….I feel like hes going to suddenly find someone new, ( maybe one of the cast members of his narcissistic harem) and magically be able to commit and have the wonderful relationship that I wanted with him.
I know I have boundry issues, I think Ive always known that.Its something that I am now working on with a therapist, and the reason that I have dated only EUM’s in the past. Its so hard to admit that I too, am Emotionally Unavailable, stemming from childhood with a mom that never thought that I was good at ANYTHING.
I am feeling a little bit better everyday. I am throwing myself into my kids, excercise and eating well, and ALLOWING my self to have a really crappy day and cry when I need too. Im taking a hiatus from dating and relationships, and im going to figure out myself, what I want, what my boundries are, so that when the right person eventually comes along, I will be ready. Im 36 years old now, there HAS to be hope for me yet!! LOL.
Its Thanksgiving weekend here in Canada, and I realized that I had the best holiday dinner that Ive had in two and a half years. There was no panic, no anxiety,no checking my phone for texts or missed phone calls. I felt HAPPY. for the first time I had friends over to celebrate with my family. It was a wonderful meal, that I was actually able to enjoy. I really have so much to be thankful for. including a life without an EUM behind the wheel. As hard as it is NOT knowing what hes doing or who hes with…I realize that it would be ten times worse KNOWING half of what hes doing and with who with his very vauge answers, that only told me what he wanted me to know. Ive been there. done that. and Im no longer interested in being hurt.
NML, I wanted to send you a special thanks for this website and your experiences. A year and a half ago, I found your…
HS
Friend of mine went through something very similar. She got pregnant, broke up, had a termination. She cried over the baby for a year. I could ALMOST have forgiven him that, BUT NOT THE SNIFFING AROUND AFTER. He could at least have the decency to slink off in shame, not come back for what he could get! She would tell me that he’d contacted her and it was all I could do not to start spitting and cursing! Anyway, he got another woman pregnant within 18 months but this time she kept the baby. They aren’t together, he moved on to someone else. He also has a teenage child with a previous ex, and has sex with her while continuing with other women. It’s just what he does.
It’s highly unlikely that your ex will change. I can’t imagine what catacylsmic event would have to occur for someone like that to do a 180. They don’t see the need. However many women they get pregnant, leave, cheat on … there’s always a steady supply of more women who are willing/eager to accept them. NC all the way. It’s not over until we shut the door firmly in their faces. No last word, no lectures, no finding out what he’s up to. None of it is useful to us and is, in fact, detrimental.
Continue to work on your boundaries and self-esteem. It’s organic. When they are at a healthy level you’ll feel so much happier and you won’t care one jot about what the ex is doing. Promise!
Hi everyone.
Well, 20 days into No Contact. Its a rainy Thanksgiving holiday Monday. And hes done it. He broke No Contact and texted me this morning. “hi. how are you?”. I havent replied. But, Im not going to lie, ..its not easy to leave this alone. I analyzed the 4 word text to death. “why didnt he use my name after “hi” like he always does?…Is he texting to let me know that hes met someone knew like he told me he would, when he “meets someone that he enjoys spending time with?” Does he actually care how I am?..or is “how are you?” just a way for him to weasel his way into a conversation with me?..
The last text he sent me after I told him that I needed some time to figure myself out, and think about what I wanted, said.. ” I understand, take the time you need to heal, and when and if you decide that we can try to find a relationship that works for both of us, I will be here, I want you to be well, and I will be thinking of you.” Did I not make it clear enough that I wanted space?…or is it because its a rainy Thanksgiving holiday Monday, hes sitting in his apartment alone?..maybe he got drunk last night and is now just really horny?…If thats the case, why doesnt he go have sex with ( and you have no idea how much it panics and hurts me to say that) one of his little narcissistic harem “friends”?
The thing is that I really tried to prepare myself for this possibility…I read all of NML’s postings on what to do if he breaks no contact, Ive subscribed to the NC support email…I talked to myself about what to do if he should contact me. I know for sure that I want to stick to No Contact. I havent replied to him, and I feel like thats going to send a strong message to him. So then why am I having all these other thoughts?…why do I feel so damn guilty for leaving him hanging and not responding?…You know, you can read about what happens and think your prepared, but until it actually happens to you..well, then its a whole different ball game!.
I really need some feedback on this….I have no desire right now to “suck it and see.”…because I really dont want to know what going on in his life, its always been to painful. But I feel like such a giant douchebag for not replying, or telling him that we are NC. maybe he just thinks that Im off “healing” and really wants to know how I am?…ARRGGHHHHH! I want off this…
HeartShaped, one of the Primary Fallback Girl Habits is overanalyzing one-line texts. Like any habit, it takes time to un-learn! If it makes you feel any better, I had told my ex that I wanted nothing to do with him and many months later he sent me a text saying, “Hey [nickname]” and I had to stop myself from being like “Why use a nickname? Is he trying to be cute? Is he trying to get me back?”, not because I care what he thinks or have any desire to go back with him, but because it’s a habit. Here’s a post of Nat’s I think you’ll find really helpful. *Big Hugs*
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/overthinking-what-men-say-do-applying-meaning-where-there-is-no-meaning/
Hey HSN,
Natalie’s new post addresses these off the wall, low effort text messages on important days. IGNORE IT. You aren’t a douche bag for having boundaries and on your death bed you aren’t going to get brownie points on your death bed for being the good little FBG and responding. The ex AC/EUM is trying to get his foot back in the door and could care less as to how you are. I fell for these text messages on important days, responded, and eventually ended up sucked back into his drama. I know how difficult it is to ignore it. For me, a text message or email was like being a heroine addict and finding a needle on the counter top. He isn’t respecting your boundaries because he doesn’t treat people with respect. It has nothing to do with you. He’s just seeing if you’ve finally given up and will go back to being a doormat and is probably bored/ horny as you suspect. If you entertain and shag him, he’ll return to the status quo of blowing cold when he isn’t bored or horny. Keep reading BR, eat a bag of oreos, go for a long walk in the rain with your kids, do whatever it takes but don’t respond. BTW, after 10 months of BR training, I’ve realized you can’t tell these types you are going NC, you have to do it.
” I understand, take the time you need to heal, and when and if you decide that we can try to find a relationship that works for both of us, I will be here, I want you to be well, and I will be thinking of you.” This bothered me when I first read it. It is classic AC/EUM code for “take the time you need to realize that if you are going to be involved with me, it will be on my terms and I will do what I want and be accountable for nothing.” IGNORE HIM. He’s a total douche bag and a few other things.
Happy T-Giving and congratulations on day 20. Stay strong.
He’s an assclown and unavailable. He’s awful. You wouldn’t want a guy like this to “love” you or pretend anymore about his intentions because you probably would stay. And that would be a wasted life.
You need to get to the underlying reasons you were with someone like this anyway. I recommend Women Who Love Too Much, Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them and
Stay strong.
Just wanted to say thank you to everyone, …you have all been so welcoming and caring and I thank you so much for the links and kind words.
Just wanted to tell you all that the assclown texted me again, …after I didnt respond this morning. The latest text was “….anyway, i just wanted to say hi and happy thanksgiving and i hope your ok.”
Really?..you hope im “ok”… that really made me mad, its sounded like he was saying ..i know that without me in your life you cant possibly be doing good, so i’ll just ask if your “ok”.
and if your so worried about it AC, why dont you pick up the phone..dail my number and ASK me.
grrrr…
Im angry. sad. mad. confused.hurt. and every other emotion humanly possible.
arghhhh
HSN
Reading Natalie’s words and the comments that follow has been inspiring. You all have saved me from hours of heart ache. The words that have really struck a cord with me are “Why would I want to be with him?” Being an educated successful, attractive woman I felt damaged each time some dead beat didn’t want to be with me. Yesterday I was kicked to the curb by a hot/cold, future seeker, emotionally unavailable assclown, and I don’t care because everyone here has saved me. THANK YOU!
So glad I found this website from googling ‘I was in a relationship with a married man and I didn’t know’ That sums it up.
I thought I’d met a single man who was working away from home until I received an odd text message followed by a phone call from his wife.
There were no signs to him being married and I’m no idiot, I’d asked questions and had got the right answers. I sent him a couple of texts over the next couple of days (I was in complete shock and after taking a barrage of abuse from his wife, I ended up speaking on the phone with her for about 15 minutes – she knew I was telling the truth about not knowing that he was married) stating how disgusted I was with his behaviour/lying etc and then cut contact.
A week later he’s texting me again phoning me and saying he’s left his wife and wants to be with me.
Like an idiot I decided to give him a 2nd chance and arranged to see him this weekend. I then received a text this week saying his son isn’t sleeping properly as he isn’t at home (remember this man is working away all week) so he is going home this weekend. Earlier this week he told me his wife wouldn’t let him in the house and now he’s spending the weekend there!
Enough is enough, after he’d texted me several times and asked if he could ring me (I said don’t bother) I told him I am not putting up with this any more. Since then he has been texting me repeatedly and I have ignored all of his texts. His last text informed me that he wasn’t going home now this weekend.
I just need some extra support, I know that getting out of this mess and cutting contact is the right thing to do, I deserve so much better than this and I know I don’t need to have the last word, my actions speak louder.
What a lying assclown! This was the 1st date I’d been on in almost 2 years as I’d decided to take some time out from dating following a poor relationship and look at what happens! Sometimes I just think it’s easier to be single.