Recently I wrote about the trouble with being blinded by intelligence which is placing a high value on what you perceive to be someone’s intellect and then correlating it to the rest of them and assuming that they possess other attractive qualities, characteristics, and values including being relationship smart. In much the same way, I find that people are blinded by appearance.
They believe that it gives them more coins in the relationship kitty or they prioritise appearance when choosing partners, or they believe they’re experiencing problems in their relationship, are single or are experiencing issues in other areas of their life because of it.
It’s not that appearance/attractiveness doesn’t have a factor in attraction but when you overvalue appearance you end up in insubstantial, superficial relationships. If you’re appearance focused, you won’t see the leaves, never mind the wood for the trees, and will be blinded to far more substantial problems.
If you believe that you’re exceptionally attractive, you’ll think it opens doors for you, coast on your appearance, and in being so superficially focused not feel that you have to put in any real effort and even think you can substitute appearance for intimacy. I know a number of people that believe that they just need to ‘show up’ and they’re only realising now that nobody goes out with your face, breasts, height, big penis, floppy hair or six-pack. These may get you through the door but unless someone is superficial, you need some substance behind you.
If you prioritise appearance when choosing partners, you’ll make blind assumptions about them and give too much credit for your powers of evaluation. You’ll assume that because you find them attractive, that it must mean they’re in possession of other qualities, characteristics, and values that you’d like in a partner. It’s a bit like me saying “Ooh, tall, black, handsome…wow he reminds me of Morris Chestnut. This could be my Ideal Man”. I did this once and ended up as the Other Woman.
These assumptions are dangerous because we go out with our image of what these things mean, not the actual person which is why it feels like a confusing punch in the face when things go awry.
If you believe your appearance is causing problems in your relationship, it means you have a total avoidance of addressing the real issues. It’s very easy to pick the thing you can’t change – genetics. It would be like me experiencing issues in a relationship and saying “Is it because I is black?” *adopts Ali G voice*
For a start, if it was your appearance, it would mean you were with a superficial partner who avoids the real issues and any of their own inadequacies by blaming your appearance which is denial, delusion, and hideous.You can’t forge a relationship with someone that thinks like this – rationalising the irrational.
However often I find that it’s assumed and that says more about where you’re at emotionally and on the self-loathing scale than it does about them. It’s not your appearance; it’s the relationship. You could scalpel yourself into a different person and those same problems and how you feel about you would still exist. You might get a temporary ‘boost’ from a change of appearance, but you’d never feel secure or truly accepted.
If you make superficial changes to appease what you think is a superficial person, it’s like committing to believing that it’s how things look that counts, which is why you may end up in a relationship that may look good, but feel bad, or just be plain hollow.
If you think you’re experiencing problems in your life due to your appearance, I’m a firm believer that everything is contextual. If you take one thing and run with it and don’t apply context, it becomes grossly distorted.
If you’re in a mutually fulfilling healthy relationship, you’re not going to blame your appearance (or your intelligence etc) if an issue arises.
If you’re not in a mutual relationship and are in fact in an unhealthy relationship, appearance is the least of your problems but it may be more convenient to blame it and be in denial.
If you don’t like and love you and despise your appearance, you’ll believe people see the things that you hate too, which will cloud your judgement about why they say and do things.
Readers get in touch about sex issues – they think that if they can get the sex on track that everything else will fall into place – that shows they overvalue sex and believe it’s a cure all.
I ask if they’re in a mutually fulfilling healthy relationship i.e other than the sex, are they being treated well, both available and committed, no boundary busting stuff and the answer is always NO. In fact some of these people aren’t even in a relationship.
You have to start asking yourself – what can my appearance do for me? Yes it can help you to feel good but as any person that looks good and feels ugly on the inside can tell you, it’s just surface unless you solve interior problems with interior solutions and ultimately like and love yourself.
Appearance changes which makes it conditional so by you or they being focused on it, it means this is conditional love.
This is the same as losing weight or contemplating cosmetic surgery – unless the reasons are solely yours and what you’re doing is being done with some work to ensure that you’re emotionally nurtured in the process and dealing with any outstanding issues, don’t go there. Losing weight/cosmetic surgery to ‘win’ someone who just isn’t that special anyway means that it will never be enough. It’s like saying“I think you’re a really superficial person so let’s be superficial together.”
You know what diet you need? A Bullshit Diet. Shed some pounds of denial and get a full focus view of people before you ‘reach’ for appearance again.
It’s not your appearance. If there are other issues, address them first.
What you think others think about appearance gives a window into how you feel about appearance. “Everybody this” and “People that” – you’re in there too. If you weren’t, you wouldn’t be saying this stuff in the first place which you don’t realise has being superficial also. People who hate their appearance often gravitate to superficial people for validation – it’s like trying to catch a few rays. These same people tend to at best, be vacant, and at worst be full on assclowns.
Last year a long time reader nearly wound up dead in some obscure place getting her breasts enlarged in an attempt to win her Mr Unavailable ex sex addict that she never felt good enough in the looks stakes with. This terrifying near death experience was her wake up call and she’s committed to learning to embrace herself and lost a couple of hundred pounds in the process (him).
Appearance may open doors or get you through them but it won’t keep you in the relationship house especially with someone with one or both feet out anyway.
You can keep flogging the appearance horse but that’s because it’s the uncomfortable comfort zone. Have an honest conversation with yourself and don’t construct superficial reasons around much deeper issues because you will get deep into an unhealthy relationship or persecute yourself unnecessarily.
You have this one life to live and the one skin you’re in. There are always things you can do to nurture and ‘improve’ yourself across all fronts, not just appearance, but do it from a positive place as a caretaker with a great responsibility.
You don’t need a life that looks good but feels bad; you need a life that feels good to you.
Your thoughts?
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Good post, as usual! My ex-assclown wasn’t the most good-looking guy in town, but he was “cute enough” for me to date him for three years. Problem is, I was never good-looking enough for him! When he dumped me, he told me “I am sick of all my friends asking me if you are three months pregnant”. The truth was, he was cheating on me. He didn’t want to own up mostly because he knew I would take the dog, guilt-free. Well, what do you know three years later I lost a bit of weight and he starts doing everything he can to get back in my good books. Not a chance in hell buddy.
But the looks-issue remains, I feel, my biggest problem with relationships. I know a part of me still feels like every negative comment he made about my body is true. I also feel that I tend to over-value the physical…
A few months after discovering this blog, I met a straight-up EUM, possibly narcissistic, and while I have managed to withhold sex and push for a “friendship”, I am worried the only reason he remains in my life at all is because he’s gorgeous. I know better than to get involved with him, but he somehow still manages to piss me off and then win me back when I walk away… NC is not an option for various reasons (mostly because we’re just friends, but also because we work together) yet how does one stop getting drawn into those puppy-dog eyes and scruffy hair?
Jen, As someone who also used to find it hard to walk away from a pretty man, it was the combination of bad experiences with two of these puppy types – on the whole, it takes a lot for a pretty man not to use his looks for bad (or just turn up, as NML says) – and something my friend said about it that changed my thinking. She describes puppyish guys as pathetic, lost little babies who ride the maternal instinct to get through life, while she describes the appearances of the rest of the (decent) male populaton using other words and images (like smart, stately, gentleman, warrior, manly, responsible, worthy etc). I used to laugh this off, but there’s something true (or helpful) in it. Add Magnolia’s image of the little man-baby grabbing and sucking dollies and spitting out that ones he doesn’t like, and I think that’s the start to some reprogramming of your mind! Relate to pretty men as you would anyone else so you can see the rest of their qualities that may or may not be interesting and likeable.
Elle
In my field I work with a lot of young attractive men (we all have our cross to bear!). Some of them milk it (puppy eyes) and some of them don’t. Those that don’t , slip under the radar somewhat as they’re not putting it about. They’re just friendly and normal.
We shouldn’t diss good looking men (not that they need our protection!), but let’s not get swept away by it either. Like women, they can use their looks to manipulate and while I’m all for having a bit of fun with beauty, no-one should use it for evil, lol.
Too right Grace – I think both sexes are privy to the same superficiality. I worked with a stunning guy – he had to put with people calling him thick…
Jen
If the only thing he’s adding to your life is scruffy hair and puppy dog eyes why not … get a dog. I do understand the allure of good looks. I love dance and fashion and sometimes I feel almost worshipful when I see a beautiful body doing beautiful stuff. But I think you’re in the danger zone with this guy. Being beautiful is a freak of genetics, it doesn’t make him worth having in your life. “Just friends” is often an excuse for some not-very-friendly behaviour (I got that from the book “He’s just not that into you” ). “Just friends” should still treat you with respect. Slapping a “friends” label on a situation does not give a person carte blanche to do whatever they want (including sex. I know you’re not having sex but…)
” I know a part of me still feels like every negative comment he made about my body is true. I also feel that I tend to over-value the physical…”
Your ex’s words are just words. Nothing more. They are petty words so please please please do not think the negative comments he said were true. Whatever they use those negative words for – for control, to keep you away, to demean you – it doesn’t matter. He was a negative person in your life to say those comments, and you do not need negativity. Only positivity. From now on keep your head high, and smile and f**k what he had to say. Use it as fuel to walk with your head high and say “I am so much better than that”.
I have to admit I have a had a hard time in the past trying not to compare myself to other girls. But I have grown and realized jealousy accomplishes nothing. It makes me feel worse! I now hold my head high and realize I am so cool :P. Seriously I am a cool person, and I may not be a “10” (whatever that means) but I am damn cute and happy!!!
As for this friendship of yours… you shouldn’t have to “push” for friendship from anyone! At the end of the day, his scruffy hair and nice eyes are just scruffy hair and nice eyes. In 50 years he’ll be bald and old and wrinkly.
Ha.
There are two mantras I have for that. The first is a vintage postcard I saw once, you know the kind with perfectly made-up, wasp-waisted homemakers, who get to say bitchy things on the card? This one had a typically handsome, square-jawed adonis, with a winking woman reminding us: “He’s just for looking at!” I once dated a guy so hot that women (and men sometimes) would stop him in the street. My breath would catch sometimes when I would go to meet him and see him sitting there waiting for *me.* But it was like talking to a Ken doll; like talking to air. I realized eventually he was (to me) just for looking at.
The second was a line I read in a short story. The narrator was a man; a not-very-nice man who covets his friend’s girlfriend but doesn’t really like her. She’s conventionally hot and he just wants to know he can have her. The line in the story was something like: “There are only three things I like about Anya and none of them are personality,” meaning he liked her two boobs and her va-jay-jay. He’s full of hatred for her through the whole story but sleeps with her whenever he gets the chance. I always remembered that: that you could think someone was totally hot, want to f*** them, but still hate their guts.
So when I see a hot guy I think, well, that’s one thing I like about him … but I still have no idea about the rest.
You can go “no contact” on so called friends..just stop contacting them and returning their calls. It’s simple. If you work with someone you are “no contact with, you stick to work issues and work agendas and leave out your private life. Why bother having people in your life who don’t add to it and as for puppy dog eyes and scruffy hair..you’re only drawn in as far as you choose to be. So choose not to be.
True Umi. I did NC with my ex who worked across from me in the office. Being strictly professional can make it happen. It’s hard at first but consistency pays off.
This is SO true. After being told outright by several men I dated (and their friends, some of whom I’d only met once) that I was basically “too dumb to date, but pretty enough to sleep with”, I decided I’d better damn well focus on my looks because that was the only way they’d overlook my apparent stupidity. This did not work out well! Natalie, I hope you know how much you are doing to help people – you are truly amazing 🙂
Natasha, Who the hell do these people think they are, saying stuff like that? From the comments you’ve posted alone, you’re clearly a witty, sensitive and insightful person, and someone people would naturally want to be around. (For what it’s worth, I do love a novel, but I’ve also been told a few times that guys have only stuck by longer than they wanted to for my appearance. That made me feel pretty low, and begin to doubt my personality etc., until I put myself on, as Natalie would say, a bullshit diet about what this said about their values and what other qualities of theirs that I was deluding myself about.)
Elle, thank you so, so much for your kind words. Seriously, it means a lot. I did the same thing, i.e. failing to see that anyone who says something like that clearly has their own issues! My problem was that I chose to date an entire string of jackasses who all said basically the same thing about me, so I decided, “Well, everyone I’ve dated said that, so it must be true.” Errrrrrrrr, hello?! This is also probably why I kept taking back my ex-AC, who seemed to (and I actually said this to a friend, talking about needing the BS Diet!), “seemed to genuinely enjoy my company”. This was between bouts of disappearance and open and shut instances of assholery. Oy. Once I fiiiiiiiinally learned that I had to validate myself and not leave the job up to people who were never going to do it, it’s a whole new ballgame 🙂
Natasha
Dumb is judging a person after meeting them just once. But it was silly of you to believe these clowns!
Grace, you hit the nail on the head! It makes me cringe that I actually let people like that make me feel badly about myself and think that no man could stand to be around me unless I was either having sex with him or not speaking. It was a lesson learned the hard way, but it’s nice to meet new people now and not sit there in paranoia mode thinking, “OHMYGOD. HE THINKS I’M DUMB!”
I cannot imagine any thinking you are dumb. I can’t help but wonder that telling you these things was their way to demean and subjugate you to appease their insecurities. Pathetic.
Thank you Lisa – that was so kind of you to say 🙂 Now I want you to be kind to yourself! Trust me, as you can see I’ve dated some real users and jackasses and if you spend some time digesting what Natalie is telling us, it really makes a HUGE difference and it’s a way out of the old trap of negative thinking. In my case, it’s taken years of people saying “it wasn’t your brain, it was his raging douchebag”, but I finally see the people I was involved with were putting me down to boost themselves up, which, you are completely correct, is highly pathetic.
I really think it’s just a case of you guys probably not exactly hitting it off – for whatever reasons, and him staying around a little longer simply because you’re anywhere from attractive to drop dead gorgeous. I’m attractive. And I’ve found that many guys, who know I’m not gonna do it for them on a long-term relationship level (and the feeling is usually mutual – until/unless I get sucked into sleeping with them/trying to make it work), will still want to get into my pants. And will stick around trying for whatever they can get. I used to take it personally – as if “my pants” was the only thing I had to offer…but now I know better. It comes down to: Just because this one guy, or two or three or ten, doesn’t appreciate and love you – it does not mean you’re not amazing and lovable! And it doesn’t mean your pants are all you’ve got going for you. It means it’s all this loser sees, and he’s willing to risk potentially hurting someone to get his own needs met/ego stroked. Yuck.
If I’ve learned anything, it’s that the good ones, if they don’t see dating/relationship potential for whatever reason, aren’t sticking around for what they can get out of it. Decent men also are not yapping to mutual friends that they think the person that they are using is a moron. These are the cases where it’s like, “I’m GLAD you don’t think I’m compatible with your mess!”
Yup. I’ve been thinking that a lot lately Natasha (-: “I’m flattered I’m not his type!” I’ll consider it a compliment.
“You don’t need a life that looks good but feels bad; you need a life that feels good to you.”
This is what I’m working on now. Figuring out or should I say creating a life that feels good to me. Like anyone else I look at men I am attracted to and didn’t really notice the ones I am not.
On a tour recently, the guide was super nice, charming, etc. I thought he was quite attractive. Had good conversation. Found out he values a few things I do. I thought “well, he might just ask me out for coffee”. But by the end of it, he literally patted me on my shoulder, said “you’re a top notch gal and I wish you all the luck with school and work. I really enjoyed your company.” Perhaps it was the 13 year age difference?? I was a little disappointed. Somewhere in there was the thought “what’d I do wrong?” But anyway the long term relationships I have had have been with some not so physically attractive men. While I do notice hot guys, I am much more apt now to notice the others. Because I want it to matter more to me how a man treats me and us having a great relationship than whether he’s a hottie with jackass tendencies.
One of the advantages of getting older is that I’ve seen my friends’ and family’s relationships grow over decades and … looks have nothing to do with it. The one you love is beautiful to you, even if they double in size, get sick, throw up every day with morning sickness, lose their hair, get old. Of course, taking care of our appearance is a basic part of caring for ourselves but that’s a long way from obsessing about it as the reason why we can’t find love. If it was about looks, Marilyn Monroe would have lived happily ever after. Instead, I see women every day who are averagely attractive (which most of us are, it’s an average after all), in happy relationships.
I did use to be beautiful, but my relationships were mostly terrible. If I had been less beautiful I expect they still would have been terrible. If I’d been even more beautiful … you get my drift. It’s not our looks, the problem is inside us. It’s what you believe.
Why not believe something wonderful instead? Katie Piper (the girl who was horrifically disfigured in an acid attack) believes she can find someone who will love her. When I saw her being cuddled by her father after one of her many operations I saw where that belief came from. If you believe you can be loved, for you, you will find it.
These days I’m not nearly as beautiful as I was and that’s okay. At the risk of sounding like Pollyanna I’m just grateful to be normal and healthy. I say this with compassion, there are babies born with terrible genetic conditions. I know a woman who is covered from head to foot in burn scarring having saved a child from a fire. She wears little shorts and dresses and I think, good for you.
Completely unrelated, I heard on TV that 1% of the population is psychopathic. I think some of us have been dating them!
Well if Natasha is only good for sleeping, then I’m the reverse of the coin. I’ve been told by male friends and other guys I’ve never been friends with that to sleep with me, I would have to wear a paper bag on my face because I’m just too ugly. I’ve been told that I’m a nice girl, I can talk about sports and I have some culture so dumb is not something they use to describe me. But despite all that, I’m always on the sidelines because I’m ugly although everyone says that you’re inner beauty is the most important thing, when you hear that you’re ugly almost every day since kindergarden, you start believe in them. Now, it’s too late to change the way I view myself and anyone who tries to tell me otherwise is usually lying or wants something from me (at least, that’s how I see it in my mind). In short, I’ve developed trust issues with everyone including my family because of my appearance.
So when I choose a guy, of course, I’ll base my choice on my level of attraction and if he measures up then he’s the one I want, the problem is that a relationship can not be based on looks and appearances.
I have to ask, aren’t you supposed to be attracted to the guy you’re dating? Is it wrong to want some level of physical attraction in a relationship?
I think that if you’re in a loving relationship, you’ll want to have sex but I don’t believe that it’ll happen with a guy unless you’re physically attracted to him, and it won’t matter how much you enjoy is view of the world or his ideals for life.
Bottom line is, thanks to this post and this blog, I know that the first step to find a good relationship is to accept yourself the way you are. Whether I’m ugly or pretty, there is no way to change my face other than submiting to cosmetic surgery or wearing lots makeup which won’t hide genetics.
I’m learning to love myself for who I am and not for whom the guy I want or am dating expects me to be or to become. Thanks, Nat! 🙂
“I’m always on the sidelines because I’m ugly although everyone says that you’re inner beauty is the most important thing, when you hear that you’re ugly almost every day since kindergarden, you start believe in them.”
Irina, I experienced the same thing. I have heard the paper bag line and more. If your experience is like mine, then you’ve probably left out the even crueller things they said when they really got rolling and creative.
They did damage. They really did. Because I didn’t have the tools to get their words out of my head, they stayed in me and became self-doubt and fear and eventually an awful sense that “it was true”. I believed I was ugly for a very long time and compounded the damage by accepting relationships because I felt so damn grateful that any guy would want me without the paper bag.
I chose men I wasn’t physically attracted to, in fact actively didn’t find attractive, thinking that overcoming repulsion is what someone who loved me would have to do for me. So I should do that for them.
I’m here to tell you that I eventually got out of those relationships and decided to believe I was pretty. I learned to dress to suit me, to wear make up to suit me, to carry myself as though I knew I was pretty, etc etc and low and behold – lots of guys now think I’m hot. In fact I had to deal with harassment at work because my stupid boss wanted to let me know I wouldn’t be getting anywhere with him because of my pretty face. (wtf??)
But emotionally I still have work to do. I have overvalued men’s physical interest in me, and was still grateful that I got to be arm candy or a trophy, like pretty girls. I have experienced the other side of the coin, where someone treats you like a sex object (and yes, I found it flattering, but I am WORKING on that shit – because it was also degrading – like validation CRACK).
I have spent far too much time looking at my ass in the mirror worrying about that than using my energy to become happy, vibrant, engaged and loving. No more!! I’m working on being happy and funny thing is, I look great doing it.
irina
why are you associating with these people? they sound horrible. i’m disgusted that they should stay stuff like that.
I saw a film about a women with a split personality. I think the actress was Sally Field. Some of her personalities were very shy, not confident, mousy. Unattractive. One of them in particular was magnetic – bubbly, confident, very attractive … I was amazed that one person could look so different.
Even if you were ugly (which I don’t believe) there is someone for you. I’m gonna sound like an absolute biyatch but sometimes I catch Jerry Springer, Trisha etc and I’m amazed some of their guests can find one person to hook up with, never mind several. I’m not suggesting that you need to lower your standards (looks are the least of these people’s problems) but you only need to find one special person. There don’t have to be hordes of them.
By the way, I knew a woman who had leukaemia as a child and the chemo affected her puberty. She literally has a child’s body and finds it difficult to meet men, which sadly I can understand. If you have a condition that has affected your looks to that extent then it may be worth looking up Katie Piper’s charity. But if you are on the “normal” spectrum, let’s be grateful for what we have.
It’s awful to get teased as a child. I experienced a lot of racist bullying because I’m chinese and thought that made me unattractive. Now, I think we’re some of the most beautiful women in the world! Those bullies don’t know what they were talking about.
I’m kinda the opposite, I think…..
I hated myself and I think the zero self-esteem pushed guys away. I no longer hate myself, thank goodness. I still struggle with self-esteem, however, because I’ve gained quite a bit of weight in the past year (kinda snuck up on me) and can’t afford to buy clothes that’ll suit my current shape. At this rate I’ll have to wear the few items that fit me until I lose enough weight to get back into my old clothes. (I joined a gym at the end of March. My saving grace is that most people can’t even tell that I gained as much as I have.) As a result, my clothes are ill-fitting and my appearance makes me feel low sometimes/often. It’s gonna take time to lose it because I injured myself within the first 2 weeks of joining, and I have to refrain from certain work-outs, doctor’s and masseuse’s orders. So it just adds to my angst.
(As an aside, I’m NOT losing the weight for superficial reasons. Both sides of my family have histories of chronic diseases like cancers & heart disease & strokes. I’m also NOT a shallow/superficial person; anyone who knows me well would never use those words to describe me.)
So what about people like me, who aren’t into appearances and/or hate(d) themselves and didn’t get into relationships with people because of looks? Just wondering if this is an exception to the rule (and you know how much I hate when people make the exception, the rule)? I’m looking over what I typed and hope it doesn’t look contradictory; what I’m trying to say may not be coming out correct.
I’m not 100% sure of what you’re asking but if interpret it correctly, you have one less thing to worry about if you’re not superficial but you are building self-esteem. You’ll be attracted to a person – not the image.
I used to hate myself, but did overvalue my appearance but didn’t care about theirs hence other than being tall, you can’t see any common thread of appearance between my exes.
Gonna try to clarify:
My experience was somewhat similar to like irina & Magnolia. Any of the excerpts from their comments in (parentheses) is mine, changed to reflect me.
irina’s comment >> “told by (all kinds of people when I was younger) that to (even like) me (much less be a girlfriend), I would have to wear a paper bag on my face because I’m just too ugly. I’ve been told that I’m a nice girl, I can talk about sports and I have some culture so dumb is not something they use to describe me. But despite all that, I (was or am?) always on the sidelines because I’m ugly although everyone says that your inner beauty is the most important thing, when you hear that you’re ugly almost every day since (right before puberty), you start believe in them. Now, it’s (hard) to change the way I view myself and (more so in the past but sometimes in the present) anyone who tries to tell me otherwise is usually lying or wants something from me (at least, that’s how I see it in my mind). In short, I’ve developed trust issues with everyone because of my (perceived) appearance.”
Magnolia’s comment >> “Irina, I experienced the same thing. I have heard the paper bag line and more. If your experience is like mine, then you’ve probably left out the even crueller things they said when they really got rolling and creative.
They did damage. They really did. Because I didn’t have the tools to get their words out of my head, they stayed in me and became self-doubt and fear and eventually an awful sense that “it was true”. I believed I was ugly for a very long time and compounded the damage by (likely pushing away a few of the men with my horrible self-esteem but looking back, I know NOW that I just wanted them to tell me that I wasn’t ugly or deformed. I wanted them to feel about me how I didn’t feel about myself.)
So how does this work for someone like me, who didn’t like herself (and still struggles with it, including appearance) and wasn’t blinded by appearance when it came to dating/relationships? If this doesn’t relate to this post, please let me know. Sorry for the confusion.
When your not confident in your looks because of what kids in school said, family members, etc.. Creeps will sense your not that confident, and will use that against you on a daily basis.
As a teenager I had gotten anorexic for a boyfriend, changed my hair – The whole nine yards, well wouldn’t ya know it – after the “transformation” he had no interest in me any longer, lol!
Seems everyone wanted the “Opposite” of whatever I was, Making me feel like the elephant woman or something – My sons father had me feeling “less” than when in fact I was just fine, Then after my son wouldn’t ya know it, But oh you used to look so hot back then! WTF?
So I had a good 6 plus years where I completely gave up and gained like 50 more pounds on top of the weight I had gotten with that awful pregnancy – since I was also abandoned.
Now since last November I have lost 1/2 of that and will never go back there again, anyone that has as issue with my big @ss now? I could care less I know what I “really” look like BIG and frumpy, LOL!
And I finding my own style as well, someone always wanted me to be some “other” style to where I lost my own and I am reinventing myself at 43 years old, since I allowed that to go on for oh I dunno over 20 years?
Forget letting anyone tell you your not enough and loosing your identity completely – Never again, Truth is what those guys wanted me to be – Always had much LESS class and style than the ME I really was.
What a waste of my life that all was – But yeah it starts young I think, with a bad family history and then rude comments when you are just developing into a woman, “You would have to be completely immune to not be effected by all of that somehow.”
Thank you for addressing this issue Nat. I know I have brought it up obsessively in my posts so a lot of what you said resonated with me. I think I understand a great deal of what you are saying but there is one piece that I don’t necessarily compute fully.
You said: “For a start, if it was your appearance, it would mean you were with a superficial partner who avoids the real issues and any of their own inadequacies by blaming your appearance which is denial, delusion, and hideous.”
If someone doesn’t commit to you (and even tells you they don’t want a relationship) but does want to be with you casually let’s say, it could be because they are attracted to you on some level and like your personality (enough to sleep with you/hang out with you) but one or both of those things is not enough to make them want a relationship with you doesn’t necessarily make them superficial.
We all need to feel a certain level of attraction to want to commit to someone for a monogamous or ‘sanctioned’ relationship. If there isn’t enough of one or both of these things (physical and emotional attraction), it will likely never get off the ground. Arguably, if you want a relationship then sticking around is self-torture (my personal hobbie) but it’s not something the less interested person has much control over.
I suppose people can evaluate what they value in relationships and how that is working for them but at the end of the day, everyone has preferences and are drawn to certain qualities, both physical, emotional as well as relational. So, sometimes I think it is true that people like you ‘enough’ to be casual with you but nothing more and it very well have something to with your appearance. Now, if everything else was perfect and they were neutral about your looks, the right fit in other ways it may result in a relationship but I think you at least gotta be in the ballpark for them. Does that make sense?
Sorry, just to add that I think the sting for me is that I don’t think I was ‘enough’ for my guy in any domain…not enough emotional connection to override his insufficient physical attraction and not enough physical attraction to make him infatuated even in the short term. Just a ‘good enough’ time filler/ego booster until he found a ‘higher quality’ partner. I don’t think this is a rare phenomenon at all. I think it’s life.
Lisa, Sometimes what we are attracted to can change though – A lot of women are married to guys they were not initially attracted to when they first met – I mean yes being clean and things like that matter and some other things might be more important to some people, But sometimes we get an idea in our head about what is so attractive and can later even get turned off by it.
Things really can change, It has been a long time since I even looked at a guy and recently for the first time did check a guy out, He looked nice, Just normal nice/decent but that was HOT to me.
At one time I dont know maybe some macho body language would have caught my eye, Eeew just thinking of what I used to think was confidence when I was younger, Yuck barf – they were anything but really happy in their own skin, lol!
Anyhow sometimes things really change when it comes to what we find so ‘attractive’ I tell you.
Lisa
I’m not so completely naive as to suggest that you could pull a Brad Pitt lookalike BUT it’s perfectly possible to meet someone you find attractive and wants a proper relationship. At its extreme, I can still be mean enough to think “what’s HE doing with HER” when I see a very good looking man with a not so pretty girl. And then I have to give myself a metaphorical slap – don’t be a bitch, grace! Those men are not valuing appearance so much.
You could turn turn your experience on its head and just as easily say “He was attracted to me physically, that’s why he seduced me and kept me around.” That’s my reading of it. I’m sceptical that you can’t find a man because … you did.
If you look at the world through the glasses of “I’m not attractive” you must always see everything that way. You have to take the glasses off. As clear as day we can tell you that your problem isn’t looks, it isn’t even that this guy buggered off (he didn’t want a relationship so that was never going to stick. Even Jennifer Aniston couldn’t get the uncommitted to commit).
I’ve lived “the dream”. I was beautiful. I attracted men including dancers and models. They even stuck around, some for years. Still. Not. Happy. It wasn’t my looks ( obviously), them or the relationships. It was me. It’s a cliche but it’s true. Until you are happy with yourself, by yourself, a partner can’t make you happy. It’s more likely that they’ll make you feel worse cos you keep picking duds!
Lisa you are someone that’s completely blinded by appearance. You don’t want to look at any other reason why your relationship isn’t working so it’s adding to the superficiality.
I could literally say *anything* and you would find a way to bring it back to your appearance just like the person who brings everything back to ‘I’m not good enough’.
You have a story and an argument centred around appearance and you construct arguments and lines of defence to support it.
Do you know what involvements with unavailable people that lack commitment, intimacy, progression, balance, and consistency are? Casual.
You advocating the decision and idea that someone can decide they’re not attracted to you but put you in the ‘good to eff’ pile and apparently this is “life” is worrying.
The argument of how you look being the determining factor is like when people commit crimes against women and say that her looks or appearance caused it.
When someone says that they don’t want a relationship and that they only want a casual relationship, it’s because they’re unavailable. If you’re still there it’s because you have *chosen* to be there and communicated via your actions that you want to be an option.
If he’s such a glowing specimen of a human being he’d have ended whatever you guys had and moved on when he decided he didn’t want a relationship or that he wasn’t attracted to you.
Now via your own admission this man’s assclown status has been promoted to ‘super assclown’ because he’s a user of the highest order almost treating you like an unpaid escort or hooker.
Do you think that women get abused because of how they look or how attracted the other person is?
Do you think a narcissist would ‘stop’ being a narcissist if you looked great?
Do you believe that people you deem as attractive have less of a right to complain? What’s their argument for why they’re in a casual relationship?
And so here is what I’m learning from you: you believe this man is the way he is because of your appearance and his attraction to you and because of how you feel about you it’s almost like you believe you deserve it.
In spite of the fact that unavailability doesn’t discriminate on looks, race, intelligence, etc – you believe that you’re the singular exception to the universal rule.
When you’re told that so called beautiful people hate themselves and experience the same issues as do ‘average’ people, you’re almost dismissive of it because it doesn’t suit your argument. In fact you believe it’s better to be miserable in a penthouse rather than a basement apartment.
It’s not your appearance Lisa but you can continue believing this until the end of time. You will be stuck in relationship insanity and you will be miserable. That’s not down to him; that’s down to you and your choices.
*APPLAUSE*
Nail —> Head.
Years ago, Michelle Pfeiffer was interviewed in Allure magazine and said something that stuck with me for a long time (and a quote my mother reminded me of after I was a disaster following the last go around with my ex-AC), she said, “Men will use a beautiful woman.” Obviously, she wasn’t talking about all men, she was talking about men who are inclined to be users. My ex-AC called me “stunningly beautiful”, but did he stick around? Did he respect me? Hell no. I think (I don’t know (or CARE) for sure, but I’m going out on a limb), it really bigged up his ego to treat a woman he considered good looking like an option. Something in the way he spoke with me (he was awful) the last time I saw him gave me the sense that he was getting off on it. Yes, there are men like this. Good looks/average looks/WHATEVER won’t help you avoid them, but sweet Jesus good self esteem and the BS diet will.
Amen Natasha. A-men.
Time to (re-) read the BS diet. Thanks for this.
Mmhmm! My BS Diet was that I had to stop blaming my looks/brain/sense of humor, etc. and realize that I’d been plain old going around with bad self esteem and extremely negative views on what kind of relationship I was capable of getting and, as a result, choosing to go out with the wrong men. The thing is, when you have one bad experience after another it gets harder and harder to get out of the negative beliefs hole. My way of trying to get out of it was to try and get an asshole to commit to me. Finally, I had to just STOP and realize that it was time to do the work for myself. I’d also like to add that I was at the beach today and saw many a happy couple…there was not a GQ, Abercrombie, Victoria’s Secret or SI Swimsuit model in sight! Love is love, and if someone is either unavailable for it or a jerk, there is no pretty face or set of abs that is going to change things. The beautiful things of it is, if someone loves you for real, there is no pimple, wrinkle or jiggly set of abs that can change that either.
Simple & profound. Thanks.
The BS Diet should be daily required reading. (At least it’ll be for ME.)
“In fact you believe it’s better to be miserable in a penthouse rather than a basement apartment.”
Well, now, I do believe that!! But maybe you meant, Nat, better to be miserable in a penthouse than happy in a basement apartment?
And there’s the thing. For the longest time I would have simply said there is no way to be happy in a basement apartment. I would have thought, I will take happy in the penthouse, or blue in the penthouse, but the basement apartment cancels out happy so let’s not even go there. Let’s make sure we get out of the fricking basement, first priority.
Thanks to THIS blog I have finally stopped and asked myself, wait a minute, the option is HAPPY in the basement apartment. If I’m happy, happy = happy. So if I focus on happy, then that will be independent of the location of the apartment.
I say this because I live in the frigging apartment, and am back here in it with just me, after getting really effed up by the way the relationship went with the AC because he had the waterfront, downtown, the whole-city-wants-it property. He had it. And near the end it nearly made me sick with anxiety to go inside that beautiful place.
I know it was a metaphor, but for me, financial status is my “looks”: I’ve been blinded. I’ve spent the last nine months SEETHING that I’m stuck with the rental apartment life.
I’ve done it with my body, too: been like, I can be happy with a bitching ass, or miserable with a bitching ass, but a saggy ass cancels happy so let’s focus on my lunges and squats, thank you!
It takes a lot of strength and clarity and willingness to try something new when you have been spending your life trying to get out of the basement (or trying to have buns of steel) to be happy, instead of focusing on “what does it mean/take to be happy”? It’s like letting go of everything you thought was going to make you happy and realizing you don’t know what the frig actually does.
I had a breakthrough last night/today and got to a place of self-digging that I have never experienced before. It was fucking great. I finally FELT that I am fucking awesome in a solid, has-nothing-to-do-with-my-success-or-intelligence-or-looks way, today. And it happened right here, in this crazy, ghetto, bars-on-the-window apartment!
I know I am like a dog to a bone with this thing…a rabid pit bull even lol and maybe that’s why I am just not fully getting it but I kinda feel like I am in the twilight zone…
There are many men (and women) who have casual relationships with people who they like enroute to finding someone that they feel compatible for a relationship with (meeting their needs along the way because sometimes finding ‘the one’ can take a while). Alternatively, they may not even set out to find a relationship so they are ‘playing the field’ and then they meet someone they cannot pass up. They are not unavailable, they are just unavailable for a relationship with the person that didn’t meet all their criteria/wasn’t the right fit. I have heard this story a million times.
Now, what the guys tells the ‘in the meantime’ girl and how he treats her determines whether he is AC or decent but the fact that the casual relationship happens at all does not mean he is unavailable to anyone. There was another post recently where someone referenced an online advice column for men that explained how to secure a good booty call….it described the situation where the guy felt the girl was good for that because he ‘didn’t like her laugh’ or she ‘had bad skin’…arguably very superficial and I don’t believe that if he loved everything else about her that most men would not have a relationship for those reasons but there is always a tipping point…something that gets in the way of us being fully attracted so we bide our time, get some of our needs met unit a more suitable partner comes along.
Maybe I do live in the Twilight Zone because many of my friends and acquaintances (and things that are regularly portrayed in media and books etc.) who are not ‘unavailable’ have these experiences and have been on both sides of the coin and it’s commonly understood that this is a part of dating and it happens all the time. Does anyone get what I am trying to convey?
Lisa, I think you’re just making it up as you go along. Casual and relationship is an oxymoron. There is no such thing as an available casual relationship. There is also no such thing as decently using someone. There is also no such thing as decently passing time with someone. Your friends must think they’re really special to be dignifying someone with the opportunity to be with them while they look onto pastures new.
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/casual-relationships-all-the-fringe-benefits-of-a-relationship-without-the-actual-relationship/
Unavailable doesn’t mean they will never be available otherwise I’d still be a Fallback Girl being passed time with.
I should stress Lisa – I’m not here to convince you. You want to believe what you believe and that’s your truth. It works for you to think this way – you are happier and more comfortable believing what you believe.
But…make sure any comments you make are specifically about you and not broad sweeping statements. You are not the only person who doesn’t like their appearance that is reading this site.
Nat,
Thank you for the reminder, I certainly don’t mean to make anyone feel worse or be insensitive. I am just trying to reconcile my reality and my observations with some of the statements made in your post/on this blog. Some things make a great deal of sense and offer a healthy challenge to some of my negative beliefs and some things just don’t jive with my experience or the experiences of others in my life or things I read. I do appreciate that it is not your job or anyone else’s to convince me and I know I have been begging for that and rejecting it at the same time. I think like you said, I am comfortable believing what I believe because it ‘adds up’ for me and maybe saves me from having to consider other things. I am also scared of believing anything else and ‘fooling myself’. I really do appreciate your point of view and that of others no matter how my inner critic and fear rail against it. I guess there are no absolute truths and no certain answers. I will never know exactly why my ex didn’t choose me or why others rejected me. I suppose I just have to look at my beliefs and figure out how they are serving me and how they aren’t. Thanks Nat :).
Agreed. For people here who are new to this and/or still fragile/vulnerable/slowly building from the ground up, this can be seen as dangerous. We needn’t discourage these folks with this thinking.
I am not sure exactly what I said that was ‘dangerous’ or any more hard to hear than many other ‘harsh realities’ discussed on this site. I am still pretty fragile and vulnerable and I think that is pretty evident by my posts. I do understand that I need to own my perceptions and avoid making universal statements. If I used “I” statements before everything I said the content still would have been there and if that resonated with someone how would it be different than anything else here? Like I said, I had no intention to hurt but there are MANY things that I have found quite painful to read on this sight…does that mean it doesn’t have value or warrant being said? The fact that there is a dialogue and opportunity for people to challenge and explore these ideas IS the healing. I don’t want to feel like I cannot express my pain or ideas without offending anyone.
Lisa
I do get it. I used to believe it. It’s true for lots of people. But it’s not true for everyone. It’s true for you because you’ve had this bad experience and understandably it has coloured your judgement. I have had very bad childhood experiences and it’s taken me decades to shake it off and change my thinking. Some things are fact – the earth is round. Others, not so much and can be changed. Otherwise women still wouldn’t have the vote.
And if a group of people are all talking the same stuff it takes guts for someone to say – actually I don’t think that’s true. I guess I’m lucky that I know lesbians, gays, asexuals (really), old people, young people, christians, atheists, different races etc. I’m constantly having to question myself.
What stops us fully committing to people isn’t their annoying laugh. It’s because we don’t want a committed relationship. In this I kinda agree with Sex and the City. Men are like taxis. When his “ready” light comes on, the next woman will be the one! It’s not really because he’s shagged his way around loads of inferiors and then met someone amazing. The “amazing” person feels different to the others because WE have become different.
Lisa, I posted about that article specifically to show how awful it was and how sadly far from the reality of healthy relationships the man who wrote it was. Normal, decent, healthy men are not sitting around thinking like this. I personally snort when I laugh (so does my Mom, it must be genetic!) and if a guy decided to bide his time with me because I couldn’t come up to his standards…I would call him a gaping asshole. I totally get where you are coming from, because I used to think like this. Sure, I think some people who are biding time don’t necessarily have horrible intentions, but they are still unavailble, still lacking in empathy for the person they are involved with and disconnected from their actions – which would be that they are using someone.
Natasha,
When I read this, “Normal, decent, healthy men are not sitting around thinking like this.” I wanted to cry because my sense of men now after this relationship (and others) that it is and that is so sad that I believe that men are like this now. It just goes to show how incredibly damaging these experiences are to one’s psyche. That reference in your post was one of the things that I found painful to read because I see so much stuff out there on tv or online that is like that and it makes me feel that there must be a huge market for it so my AC must not be that unique. I find it hard not to find reinforcement for my views/fears/experiences which I practically can no longer separate. Little by little I think some of the thoughts on this post are sinking in (about this particular issue, others sank in big time). So, I don’t want to appear ungrateful or argumentative with others. I really value this community and have a lot of respect for the women on here. So, I feel sorry that my posts are sometimes disjointed and messy and painful and skewed because that is how it lives inside me. I think these relationships can be really traumatic and result in some reliving and reinforcing of our most horrible beliefs about ourselves.
I had the exact same problem! I thought because of the people I was involved with that this was just how men operated nowadays and I was totally doomed. Luckily for all of us, that’s just not true. I have several friends in wonderful, healthy relationships with men who would never, ever think like this. Some of these men are also very, very good looking, so it just goes to show you that even the men who can really and truly have their pick of women aren’t thinking like this, because they are both available and decent. One of my friends was telling the story of my ex-AC to her boyfriend and he was appalled. I also have a lot of male friends who said the same thing, not because they are my friends, but because they recognize that this kind of behavior isn’t right. Believe me when I tell you I’ve been where you are and I get how you are feeling, because I had one crappy experience after another that basically confirmed everything negative I thought about myself and relationships. Eventually, I just had to put my foot down, work on myself and believe that there is someone decent out there for me!
Lisa,
I think your observation of the way some people operate in the dating world is probably valid. For SOME people. I know how prevalently this type of behavior is protrayed in TV shows, but I don’t see that as reality. And yes, I’m sure there are people out there who watch these shows and so consider it “normal” behavior to pass time in casual relationships until they find the one. I have a friend who thinks that women should conduct themselves like the women she sees on TV, i.e., sleep with a man on date 3, etc.
But we are human, and we are NOT immune to feelings, emotional attachment, etc. that can develop, even if our intention is to remain casual. So, then where does that leave a person when they got into a casual relationship with someone they knew up front they didn’t want anything serious with, but developed a real attachment? Now, they are attached in a relationship for superficial reasons (just sex), when so many other important factors may be missing.
This is why people who are truly available, and looking for a 100% committed relationship, would be careful not to “pass time” while they are looking, because of the danger of getting hijacked into something unhealthy, and missing out on their chance to be with a healthy partner. How can you possibly be 100% available to meet the one, when you are even 30% involved with someone else?
Thank you Natasha and ICanDoBetter. Fear and the need for validation were definitely motivators to continue with a man who told me that he basically wanted all the fringe benefits of a relationship but non of the commitment or work. My friends warned me that it would take away from me finding someone who did want a relationship but I thought I knew better. I wanted HIM but even more I think, I wanted him to want me. So know, he still remains idealized to an extent because I was never able to have him. Live and learn…I hope.
Sorry for the repetition. I see that Magnolia explained some of this in a post further down. I think she says it much better!
Magnolia,
“It takes a lot of strength and clarity and willingness to try something new when you have been spending your life trying to get out of the basement (or trying to have buns of steel) to be happy, instead of focusing on “what does it mean/take to be happy”? It’s like letting go of everything you thought was going to make you happy and realizing you don’t know what the frig actually does”.
So beautifully stated and true. It feels like turning the titanic around for me. It is truly terrifying to let go of what you think will make you happy and figure out what does. I am struggling to let go of my dream of being pretty and what I think that will mean for my life (i.e. not being alone and feeling valid) and focusing on accepting myself as I am and trying to be happy.
“I am not sure exactly what I said that was ‘dangerous’ or any more hard to hear than many other ‘harsh realities’ discussed on this site.”
Lisa, there are people who read this site who are even more fragile & vulnerable than you. If they’re looking for excuses to NOT do the real work, your statement may be taken and twisted as a way to continue denying & avoiding and etc. That’s what I mean by dangerous. I’m not saying that you can’t have your own opinion, nor did I say that your opinions & values & belief systems are any less important than anyone else’s. Just know that just as this site has influenced many of us for good, certain statements on here may be used & twisted for other purposes.
Back on topic. My apologies for going too far off topic, Natalie.
I hope this is not too off topic but with the whole being blinded by intelligence and being blinded by appearance I wanted to add being blinded by status. My ex MM was a big cheese (well maybe actually a medium sized block of generic cheddar but he blew it up in his mind and so then mine) at a big blue chip company.
I had a thought today about status and that of all our assclowns probably none of them is as successful, rich or famous as Donald Trump. And as far as DT goes woudya? I mean really? Would you even think of it for a second? Therefore clearly not something to put in your wish list or measurements.
Great point Kitty S. I’m fascinated by Mr Trump. Here in the UK quite a few of my friends are big fans of him in the US Apprentice because of the comb over and being so OTT. He’s absolutely hilarious when he does those scenes where they cut to him working in the office – he takes himself far too seriously! But status doesn’t mean a thing especially as it cloaks lesser qualities and characteristics. Status is image is perception. Useful for business but not for relationships.
I’ve always had a fat complex even if people say I’m not fat anymore, I dated a beautiful AC and it felt great!!!! Yeah, except I was always anxious and terribly trying to be happy. Guess what, Ive starved myself, run to lose weight because I believed my fat ass was a detriment.
Now I love my fat ass and work out to be healthy and I now attract more guys, good guys which is what I want. I’m happier than ever only because I’m on the no bullshit diet, so much more to work on but life goes on!
You’re radiating confidence Miriam – I have a few friends who are very much the same way. Starving doesn’t feel good neither does feeling like your relationship hangs in the balance based on your weight.
Good for you Miriam! Like Natalie I have a friend who is the same way and she’s no stick figure, but she captivates every man in the room and every woman wants to be her friend because she gives out such positive energy. Being around her just makes you feel happy! It really is a gift to you and everyone around you, cherish it 🙂
I’m so guilty of this it’s not even funny. If I see a really attractive man, I believe that he must be a good person. It’s just automatic, and it’s automatic that I assume that he’d be a good boyfriend, husband, etc. with a wonderful personality. And with all of these assumptions in mind, I’ll sit there and pine over him, and become sad over the fact that he’d never look my way because of how I look.
I don’t like the way I look, not that much. I often believe it’s one of the main, if not only, reasons that men won’t even try to strike up a conversation with me. They won’t even give me a chance. Because of my looks, almost any man that I become attracted to is out of my league. I know that if I looked a certain way, I wouldn’t have this problem. But I don’t and no matter how nice I try to fix myself up, it all falls on blind eyes.
A few men find me attractive, but they are not the men I want: They’re unattractive to me, they usually have girlfriends, have no job, are selling drugs, and are simply not doing anything with their lives. And my ex, who I was and am still playing Fallback Girl to is the only attractive man who will give me the time of day, claims to love me, and thinks I’m beautiful.
I realize that this is a problem. I see how I make assumptions about attractive men and then run with it. At the end of the day, I have no idea about who these guys really are, the only thing I know is that I like how they look. I want to change my mindset. But is it wrong to want to be with someone who you’re attracted to, both physically and emotionally? Everyone cares about looks to a certain extent, but I know I care about them way too much.
19 Years Wiser – one of my markers of unhealthy love habits/low self-esteem is when you’re only attracted to people who are not attracted to you. It’s like rejection is your hook. If you haven’t managed a successful relationship with your ‘type’ suffice to say that you could stand to make some adjustments. You also have to question how serious you are about being in a relationship. Much like the person that only wants to commit when there is no chance of commitment, interest only where it’s not reciprocated speaks volumes.
What kind of adjustments? I get that rejection and disinterest can be a hook…but I could never really understand how. I guess it could be saying that I’m afraid to be in a healthy relationship? I get what you’re saying, NML. It just bothers me that I’m blinded by things like appearance and rejection. Both, of which, make no sense to be blinded by.
19years
I used to be blinded by appearance cos I was so geeky and bullied growing up that, even though I turned out pretty, if a good looking man paid me attention I was really uplifted. As for rejection, my parents rejected us through neglect, and physical and emotional abuse. In my relationships I liked to “win”over a difficult situation rather than just find someone available. And I don’t mean anything mystical by available. It would have helped me immensely if they’d just been flipping single!
There is possibly something in your past that you are trying to solve by repeating the experience and making it right. That’s the human brain for ya, it can’t stand to be wrong! I’m gonna get someone who hates me to love me! I can do it! I’ve been trying for years! And. One. Day. I. Will.
PS You won’t. And even if you did, you suddenly realise you don’t want the guy anymore, cos it was never about that.
I’ve been bullied because of my looks, and told that my looks have a lot to do with why men aren’t attracted to me, may cheat on me, and why men in general just don’t approach me. My mom is also very appearance-focused because of her past, and some of that and the pressure of it have rubbed onto me.
I’ve been appearance-focused for a very long time, and attracted to people who aren’t interested in me for a very long time as well. I remember having a crush on this boy in my first grade class. I used to chase him around during recess. My crush lasted for about 2 years, and during those 2 years, I either pined over him or pursued him. Lol.
I have no idea why I am wanting to get with people who don’t want me so badly…but I guess it doesn’t matter, or does it? Either way, I’d like to stop it, lol.
Amen Grace!
I was ugly as a child and told so. I sprouted into an attractive lady, and still am at 42, but I never got over being picked on over my appearance. I still have bad relationships even though I am considered “hot”. I still pick jerks, feel bad about myself and search for validation. I get told I am beautiful but still feel like I am never enough for the guy I am with at the time and worry about being left for someone younger, or who is pretty in a different way, who has black hair instead of blonde or who doesn’t have mommy boobs, etc. etc.. I have been on both ends of the spectrum ( ugly duckling turns into swan) and I have had low self esteem about my looks on both sides. Being attractive has not brought me any happiness and I am still just as lonely as I wasn’t attractive. It is so completely about how you feel about yourself and what you except in our life and how you allow yourself to be treated.
The latest guy I dated told me I was beautiful and never put me down about my appearance. Yet, I still felt like I was on thin ice or ‘not enough’ all the time and I got all insecure when he would look at another woman. I was sure the grass was greener, although he never said so. I also thought HE was completely beautiful and would catch myself just looking at him like he was a Van Gogh painting. He had issues of his own, including alcoholism and selling pot which made him very unattractive to me. He was also very hard to communicate with and would stonewall when I needed to talk about something. In the end it was his values, his attitude and particulars about his personality that drove me away. I was in denial for a little while because he was attractive and it was validating that he liked me (but also triggered my fears), but that feeling didn’t last when the gloss wore off and problems started coming to the surface. I realize how I didn’t have enough self esteem to get in a relationship, no matter my looks or his. I still didn’t feel good enough even though he was far from perfect. I knew early on he was not the right guy for me but I was for sure blinded by his looks. I ended it the day he responded to me asking him to let me finish a sentence and stop interrupting me with ” I’ll let you finish a sentence when you say something that makes sense.” As the words were coming out of his mouth I didn’t see him as beautiful anymore and the disrespect was palpable. In the end looks didn’t matter at all, for either of us. All it did was allow me to be in denial about him and myself, still! Another lesson learned. It was like a mid term test for me and I got a C-. I have more work to do, but I can at least see my own part in this.
Ah the beautiful weed selling alcoholic. There are more of those than you realise. It can actually give the impression of them looking forlorn and wounded. That was a very aggressive response from him. I think you will find that you will grow out of this experience and not seek to play with this type of fire again. Work on your feelings about you though because you went to this like a moth to a flame. When you do feel better about you, playing Florence to a guy like this won’t be attractive.
Ah yes, I am Florence and the woman who talks too much all wrapped up in one. If I am honest with myself, I am a drama seeker too. Jeesh.
I feel like the floodgates are about to open now that I am ready to get more real about myself and my baggage. I need to hit the ‘purge ‘ button and let it flow.
Nat
beautiful weed selling alcoholic – that’s hilarious. those words should never be seen together!
This article reminds me of an interview I heard some time ago with a blind man. He just could NOT believe, the whole idea blew his MIND, that people would choose mates, human beings to share their life, create whole new human beings, build connection and community with…others based solely on their LOOKS. He felt quite blessed to be blind if vision could make someone so insane.
That’s brilliant Sunshine!
Outstanding comment.
Wow. Amazing. Simple. Profound.
Natalie, you have written posts on the importance of not being ‘blinded’ by intelligence, looks, chemistry or common interests. It is making me wonder now you have argued against the importance of all these things just how to select a suitable mate? It seems that I should select a mate who is of average or below looks and intelligence and with whom I share few interests and lukewarm chemistry who has good values like wanting to copilot a relationship, sharing goals about kids, fidelity and life plans. Pardon me, but this sounds like a business agreement for house sharing and child raising, not love. It sounds a lot like settling for someone who could just be a male friend bar for the fact that we don’t want to be alone. Is this a valid criticism?
Interesting comment that I didn’t realise you were criticising me until the end – hilarious!
If you have read all the posts then you’ll know this – you can choose people based on intelligence, looks, whatever but you still, if you’re looking for a relationship that goes beyond being casual, need to have shared values, mutual love, care, trust, respect and stuff like intimacy and commitment.
That means if the most important thing to you is to be with a beautiful man, that’s very intelligent with a big dick, this is absolutely fine. But those things alone are not an assurance of shared values or commitment or even common interests.
What I always find interesting about comments like yours Lucy is the extremes. If you had read what you say you read, you’ll notice that I specifically said that it doesn’t mean going out with someone that you don’t want to be with. You’re taking it to the nth degree.
Now if you want to degenerate that into a business arrangement, you have to do what works for you.
Nat
lots of people think that shared interests, intelligence, looks and charm are how you pick a partner. if you look at the personal columns, any dating website etc, that’s what they’re focusing on. i used to believe it – what else is there?
the first time i came to BR, i thought “what the hell is this?” i was going through some trauma at the time and went to a counsellor and it’s taken me months and months of talking, thinking, observation and questioning to realise that my approach to relationships was all wrong. which is funny i used to give such wonderful advice. I remember telling a friend who was thinking about breaking up with her partner ” … i know she’s very different to you and likes different things. she’s not as exciting as your ex but she really cares about you and she’s very loyal. that’s rare and really precious. just think about it first.” ten years later they are still together and when i am with them i seriously feel the love! nothing businesslike about it all.
yeah i never get dating personals, I tried okcupid for laughs and I was turned off by it more so I stopped. Its like selling yourself out there and laying out your “best” traits but a lot of that stuff sound so generic. I feel like the more the person sounds to good to be true then usually that’s the case.
I also used to think that a lot of shared interests, physical look and status were priority but really its just surface level and it doesn’t excuse anyone from acting like an asshole. I’m glad I found this site and I still have lots to learn =)
You know Natalie, after reading your stuff and the comments on your blog, I feel like I’ve been walking around seeing blind. You’ve given me such a different way of seeing the world, people in general, as well as members of the opposite sex. Thank you and thanks to the folks who post. The world seems so different now and my place in it seems different. What changed?
Thank you Natalie, it is helpful to hear that we should wait until we find someone we want to be with as well instead of settling with “a good man” who wants what I want but I would prefer to just be friends. I’m beginning to understand that you can’t make a beautiful intelligent man become faithful or develop integrity or respect, and you can’t force yourself to love a kind man who you only see as a friend despite wanting to be with a man. I need to find a man with good values who wants a copiloted relationship who also makes me hot enough to have a good sex life with but doesn’t have to be the Oxford alumni former model attorney who cheated and lied our entire relationship (and beyond) who I formerly dated. I gave the benefit of the doubt that despite seeming to be a player, actually he would be a good man because I wanted to believe it, probably because he was so smart, attractive and charming. I set myself up for the cheating and lying while telling myself I was being benevolent for not prejudging him for his apparent smoothness. I should have not overanalyzed it and focused on the red flag.
Nat,
“What I always find interesting about comments like yours Lucy is the extremes. If you had read what you say you read, you’ll notice that I specifically said that it doesn’t mean going out with someone that you don’t want to be with. You’re taking it to the nth degree.”
I guess this is what I am confused about. Are you saying (based on this post and one of your earlier ones replying to me) that if someone doesn’t want a relationship because they ‘don’t want to be with you’ because you don’t meet all the requirements listed above that that is their right. But if they have a casual relationship with you anyway, that automatically makes them EU? If that’s true, then does that mean that no one should get their sexual needs/needs for companionship while they are trying to find or until they find a committed relationship because…”There is also no such thing as decently using someone. There is also no such thing as decently passing time with someone. “?
I guess that is what I am confused about. While I get that there is no such thing as an “available casual” relationship, I understand that to mean that they are unavailable to me for a relationship because they are not that into me but if they were, they would be into it. I also get that there are others that wouldn’t be available to anyone for all sorts of reasons and that is what I think I (and it seems many others are trying to figure out about their ex’s (reason for not committing).
Lisa (Hope don’t mind that chiming in even if directed to Natalie),
I can imagine the state of mind you’re in. You described yourself as a mad dog, hungry for something, and your scattered thoughts reflect that (there’s a lot going on in your comments). I hope something clicks and gives you a concept you need to get through, though I suspect you’ll just want more and more until someone says something that confirms your ideas about people and yourself. For what it’s worth, I do think you’re focusing way too much on the motivations and foibles of these guys, on the neverending uncontrollable. It can’t be making you feel great or any better.
If you’re enjoying your job or home life, fit, healthy, have hobbies that energise you, a good set of friends, and are practising being positive emotionally (and to some extent, self-reliant – never wholly, but at least trying to self-soothe before expecting/demanding others to prop you up), then you’re far more likely to be attractive to someone (and perception of your looks come from this – I assure you that looks without the above habits are not an advantage long-term.). Of course, it’s possible that you still won’t meet anyone YOU like and want and choose to share you life with, but you’ll certainly like yourself better, and will care less about these questions. These are the things I would suggest you focus on. It’s what I am focusing on. And, more than ever, I am at that place of saying and really feeling ‘who cares?’ in the face of rejection.
Okay Nat … let’s see if I have absorbed your wisdom:
Lisa, Nat’s advice assumes you are looking for a lasting, mutually-fulfilling, exclusive relationship. Note: LASTING.
So yes to the questions in your second paragraph. It may be tough to wrap your head around, but yes.
“I understand that to mean that they are unavailable to me for a relationship because they are not that into me but if they were [available], they would be into it.”
No, no, no. Someone can be totally available and not into you. They just won’t mess with you / waste your time and theirs if that is the case.
Think of someone’s heart as a pie chart. You want a wholehearted relationship, you need someone who is 100%, or as close to that as possible, in touch with their whole pie. You want someone offering a whole pie. That’s about them being in touch with themselves.
EU people are walking around in touch with, say, 60% of their pie chart. They can’t offer anyone more than a 60% pie. They’re walking around not realizing 4 of their 10 pieces of pie are missing. But they’re out there, holding out their dish of yummy-smelling, tasty 60% as though it’s a whole pie.
Just because they don’t know their own hearts, and haven’t looked into the plate of what they offer to see that they’ve misplaced some pie, doesn’t mean that when they hold out the plate to you that you should pretend it’s a whole pie. Just because they say it is doesn’t make it so.
You see how that has nothing to do with you? Can you recognize the signs of someone obliviously holding out a 60% pie? Or worse, holding out a pie that they’re telling you is 100%, looks on the surface like 100%, but is all pastry, and has no filling, so is 60% pie, or even 10% pie, and they know it? Can you spot the real pie????
Unless you start saying, oh, 60% pie is all I really need anyway. THEN it starts to be about you.
Loving the pie analogy!
I want to be in touch with my whole pie.
It sounds like you assume that the men you’re dealing with have 100% pie on offer, but just don’t like you enough to offer you all of it. That they are like, YOU, Lisa, aren’t good enough for my whole pie. Bollocks.
Here is the thing: a guy with 100% pie, who wants to offer it, WILL NOT tease you, or waste his own time, offering percentages, or telling you you have to be different to be worth getting all the pie. Either he is in, or out. A guy with 100% pie can decide he doesn’t want to date you, check you out through the discovery phase of dating and opt out, but if he decides he doesn’t like you he WILL not waste his time offering percentages, because that keeps him from being able to offer 100% pie to the woman he decides he wants to give that to. To the woman who knows she wants 100% pie.
Any guy who stays in after deciding you aren’t the one has not decided that he is about giving 100% pie, ie. his whole heart. EU guys (and girls) don’t have enough self-knowledge to make this decision.
They’ll stay in a situation that is not whole-hearted claiming to want something whole-hearted but as long as they opt in to half-hearted passing time situations they are clearly EU.
And picking guys who show red flags (evidence of missing pie!) shows that we have not figured out how to put our whole pie on offer. We too are going around offering percentages. If we weren’t, and knew we were offering the whole pie, we’d be way more selective.
Phew. Wonder if I got that right.
You got it right, Mags.
Brilliant Magnolia -spot on.
Mag
That’s it. I used to be EU myself and must have left guys wondering “what the eff happened?” as I morphed from Perfect Girlfriend to Disconnected Girlfriend to Disappearing Girlfriend. Like Lisa’s friends I wasn’t doing anything very unusual so I had no need to question it. Lots of people do it. But when I found myself at the age of 45 contemplating an affair with a MM I realised something was wrong. Lisa, even though your experience is confusing and hurtful something very good can come out of it. Stick with the learning and you’ll realise you were barking up the wrong tree.
A lasting relationship isn’t about proving yourself worthy, it’s not about playing games, it’s not about having a nice time, it’s not about settling for something that neither of you are happy with. To build love that lasts both of you both have to be in it 100%. Some people just can’t do that. They don’t realise it or they don’t know how.
Yes, relationships can fail for all kinds of reasons that have nothing to do with emotional unavailability. At that point, someone will finish it and then Go Away. Not keep coming back for what they can get.
On the one hand you don’t think enough of yourself and on the other you think too much. Some things are out of your control. His behaviour is one of them.
Thank you for your thoughts. I wrote this:
While I get that there is no such thing as an “available casual” relationship, I understand that to mean that they are unavailable to me for a relationship because they are not that into me but if they were, they would be into it.
Because of men who tell you right away that they are not looking for a relationship right now. (I understand that has implications about my availability and/or theirs if we get into that situation) but I have heard many people admit that that is just what they told someone when they knew they didn’t want a relationship with THEM but did want to get some of their needs met. I understand that people can feel less guilty for having told them they are only ‘able’ to give 40% pie or whatever because ‘at least they were being honest’ and the the person they are offering pie to can make an informed decision about what to do for themselves. So, I am not talking about someone who is pretending to offer a %100 or who doesn’t realize they can’t give %100. I am referring to those that put it right out there so you don’t have any expectations but if another person came a long that they liked more, they would commit to them.
Lisa
Why would you want someone who’s already told you he won’t commit? Some men or women might think “this person will do for now”. Does that mean it’s okay for you to be “this person”. You don’t HAVE to be. You couled be on your own and wait for something better. Users, half-hearted and casual people are out there. You understand where they are coming from. Knowing that, why deal with them?
This “next person” is theoretical. It’s very easy to say I’m gonna commit one day to someone and never actually do it. Very few of us have witnessed the next person being the one that they committed to. And as someone helpfully pointed out a while back, we’re all the next person too.
If these people you’ve been talking to REALLY wanted a committed relationship, why don’t they find one? It’s almost impossible (99%) to start a committed relationship when you’re already seeing someone, so they’ve shortened their odds. Is their plan to shag someone, meet someone better, then ditch the first person? That’s horrid. Mind you, a decent healthy-minded person won’t touch someone already in a relationship. So all they’re going to meet in their situation is more people who aren’t relationship material. Cos those who want a proper relationship aint going near that mess. It’s self-fulfilling.
Constantly having casual relationships might seem harmless and a laugh but I think it chips away at your respect for other people, for yourself and at your moral centre. I don’t believe it’s okay. If you accept it, then by all means continue to do so. But it doesn’t seem to have been working in your favour.
I read something handy in Trinny and Susannah of all things. Don’t take relationship advice from people who are single/in crap relationships. Nat has a committed boyfriend and is getting married. I also like wayneandtamara.com. They’ve been married for donkeys. The women who wrote the silly Rules are both divorced. You get my point.
I’m not in a good relationship but I’ve had a lot of failed ones, some of them longterm. I can sniff one out a mile off, and I am familiar with the beliefs that keep them going.
What you believe, I believed. I WAS the next girl they committed to. One of them even married me. I divorced him. I lived with one. I left him. Even if the ex does get married, you don’t know the full story.
By…
Grace and Magnolia, you both nailed it. I just want to say that reading both your comments has made a huge difference for me, especially in the early days of NC, and I really and truly appreciate you sharing!
p.s. I’m in the US and the day they put Trinny and Susannah on BBC America was a game changer for me. With their help, I finally let go of the idea that I could wear a polo neck (turtleneck in the US!). LOVE THEM.
Lisa,
Then you are just talking about people who are selfish and basically telling you “buyer beware.” They hope that you are just as self-interested and can be like, oh yeah, I’m only into you part-way, too. They’re hoping it can be business-like.
If they know you want the full meal deal, tell you they’re only part into it, and you keep going, they (and you) have let them(selves) off the hook.
If they want their physical needs met and don’t want to offer their emotional presence and commitment, they can pay for it and make it truly about business.
If they offer that to a woman who isn’t a prostitute, and basically say I want your sex but I don’t want to pay you for it nor do I want to be your best friend, and the woman says OK, who is making the bad deal?
People lie to themselves, too. I have a friend who is in two simultaneous sexual relationships with two women. He tells them he doesn’t want more, that it is casual, and that he is being such a good guy by being honest. The women say oh, it’s alright. But the degree of real tension and “management” in their “casual” relationship tells a different story. He’s being a selfish dink, knows it at some level, so do both the women, and they’re all lying to themselves.
My friend is just getting to the point where he has stopped believing that he would actually commit if he found the right woman. He’s being more honest with himself. But for the longest time he thought it was that he just hadn’t found the right “one.”
I really like the way you put this, Magnolia- thank you!
Just as someone can be totally available and not into you, I think they can be unavailable and totally into you- but this doesn’t mean they have a whole pie to offer. I was with a decent guy who I believe truly loved me and thought I was beautiful but his heart was only partially available so he still wasn’t able to build a lasting, healthy, loving, equal partnership with me. I found that what you say about self-knowledge is true… he overestimated his capacity for intimacy and commitment, and he didn’t know his own heart enough to notice that his capacity was limited (he had limited pie to offer!). Again– even if someone loves you and is attracted to you if they are not emotionally available what they offer isn’t necessarily a satisfying meal!
It makes me sad, but I also know I can’t do anything about his stuff. What I can do is deal with what I brought to the relationship and why I bet on potential and accepted less than I wanted and deserved. Now, if I only knew how to start…
I know a lot of people have already said some really great things to Lisa here, but I couldn’t resist chiming in. Lisa you said the following:
“If that’s true, then does that mean that no one should get their sexual needs/needs for companionship while they are trying to find or until they find a committed relationship because… ‘There is also no such thing as decently using someone. There is also no such thing as decently passing time with someone.’ ?
YES! That’s exactly what it means! You make it sound as if sexual/companionship needs are on par with the need for oxygen and food. They’re not. These men do NOT need a woman for sex/companionship until a woman arrives who they consider to be “the one.” They won’t die if they don’t have sex and companionship until they meet the right lady. Their dicks won’t shrivel up and fall off. What’s the big deal about NOT having sex and just being happy living your life until you meet someone you really match up with?
I know as women we’re constantly being told that men are horndogs and have insatiable sexual needs, but it’s just not true from my experience. The good guys I know aren’t “needy” in this way and will hold out to have sex until they meet a woman they are really into and want to see if they can have a future with. They won’t just take what’s available, even if they could have it, if they can’t see a future with the woman. The men, however, who believe they are more “studly” by having sex or that they have insatiable sexual needs that they can’t control because “they’re men,” however…
Being single is not a failure or a punishment. It’s not such “misery” that you have to fill “needs” until the right person comes along. It’s quite okay to be single. Whenever I have “needed” sex, it has been when I’ve equated having sex with personal validation. I needed it to prove I was attractive and desirable. When I started seeing my not having sex as meaning that I had personal standards and boundaries, however, and that I would wait and meet the right man in time, suddenly I didn’t “need” it so much anymore.
I’m suspicious of a man who “needs” sex and female romantic companionship so badly that he will pass time in this way with a woman he sees no future with.
All very true! I never was very picky about appearance, but I have had my share of body image issues — and I’d like to add this about body image vs. attractiveness… inner freedom, confidence, and happiness give people a beautiful glow that will radiate from any body size or type. When you feel good about your whole self, that’s when in subtle and mysterious ways you look your personal best.
Also my last EUM was one of the most attractive men I’ve been involved with, but it was obvious from the way he carried himself that he was vain and manipulative with his good looks. I still fell for it though, because umm… well, he was so fine! AND that felt like validation at the time. (He caught me at a very insecure time; normally I assume that exceptionally handsome guys must be already spoiled rotten by equally gorgeous but insecure women fawning all over them… EU enablers, we’ve all been one kind or another!)
Hi ladies!
A couple of thoughts about attractiveness in relationships:
My exEUM was a very attractive man – but he constantly needed affirmation of this fact – from other women. It was tiresome and demeaning. And let me tell you, the worse he treated me, he seemed to get uglier before my eyes. Really!
Secondly I am lucky enough to feel secure about my looks (I’m no supermodel but I don’t feel like a beast either) – but my level of physical attractiveness did not stop him hiding me away, refusing to touch me in public and generally keeping me a secret for pretty much our entire relationship. It was heartbreaking and hit my self-esteem hard.
So I can assure you from painful personal experience that attractiveness (either ours or our partner’s) has little to do with capacity for integrity, respect or relationship potential… it may be the pretty icing on the cake, but if there’s no cake it’s not worth having 🙂
Hi natalie,
your post have been really great so far =)
its like I have the questions in my head then all of a sudden I would see your blog posts about the same thing, it also helped me reading through other peoples comments.
I was pretty naive heading into a “relationship” so its no suprise I became disappointed and heartbroken. I too am guilty of trying to change my appearance to win back some affection or trying hard to fit into a mold which I felt was very upsetting, not only did it make me unhappy but the person I did it for…. who would make suggestions on how to look better etc etc was just throwing it in my face without really caring about the outcome in the end.
It just meant I would struggle to try to fit his mold. As another poster said : marilyn manroe was gorgeous but her story was pretty tragic , though somehow I admit that looks can get you a upperhand it also can attract the wrong attention and mean you might get taken advantage of.
For what it’s worth:
I’ve been both sides of the attraction fence. I’ve felt that being with someone attractive meant that I was worth something. That didn’t work out too well.
I’ve been with men not so attractive that turned out to be deep and passionate. That didn’t work to well either.
The problem was me and what I perceived that men wanted. Did they want someone beautiful or someone intelligent? Someone they could measure by how many degrees they have or how many times they have been photographed as a model?
When I lacked in one area I felt insecure about it and overcompensated in other areas.
I’ve been beautiful, ugly, beautiful, ugly and beautiful again and paid the price for each one of those turns in my life. I was not being authentic!
I know what attracts me now and how I want to look and feel for me. I realise now that the best relationship I had was when I was 16 (yes 16!) I was my authentic self, not ruined by opinion and not trying to mould myself to someone else’s expectations. Yes, I was young, but it was the most mature relationship I ever had. Nothing beats authenticity and feeling true love, kindness and the spirit of togetherness that brings.
I need to get back to authenticity as soon as I possibly can!
My ex and I were both blesssed in the gene pool of life. He is as they say tall, dark and handsome and I am that all American California Girl blonde, blue eyed and at 57 can still turn heads.
On the outside everyone thought we were the perfect couple but as I found out over the years and now that its over all he wanted me for was for show for arm candy, to parade in front of his friends, clients and anyone who would look. He was gorgeous on the outside but on the inside cold, distance and a cheater.
I swear the prettier they are the bigger ass they are.
This post has really brought out some great comments and after reading each one I have another ‘ah ha’ moment. The saying misery loves company is true but this site is the opposite, ‘hope is contagious’. I came across this video tht was interesting. Maybe it was here that I found it, so sorry if this video has already been posted.
http://hubmanshangout.com/2011/05/27/the-power-of-words/
Yesterday I was trying on new shoes, and I had a bit of an epiphany. I LOVE shoes. When I was younger I would buy the prettiest shoes – without regard to how well they fit. I figured I’d eventually “break them in.” No matter how much they hurt my feet, caused swelling, blisters, bleeding, if they were beautiful I bought them. In the past couple of years I am done with that. I have wasted so much money on cute shoes that got me no where. So, there I am trying on yet another pair of cute shoes and I am walking around the store, and they kind of pinch, and when I remove them, I can see the red marks on my feet and just know that if they did that in a two minute walk, what would they do over the longer haul? And put them back. Now, if they don’t feel like a good fit from the get go, I don’t buy them. Doesn’t matter how cute they are.
Relationships are the same. The majority of my beau’s have been gorgeous. And the majority have been unavailable at the very least, and downright abusive at the worst. The thing is, you know very early on which way it is likely to go. But, like those cute shoes you over look the discomfort and hurt because they are sooo cute. No more. Like my shoes, if the relationship doesn’t feel right, I am putting him back on the shelf. And that is my shoe story!
Love it Phoebe – I too used to do the same thing – trying to wear in shoes and men that I know are an ill fit. We are maturing! Let go of the shoe insanity and the relationship insanity – amen!
Right on, Nat! More thoughts on my shoe analogy…. So I put these gorgeous red patent leather peep toe shows WITH a BOW!!! back on the shelf because they hurt from the get… whereas a year ago I would have snapped them up regardless and “made the work” eg Advil and plasters… but this time, I put them back and had faith that I would find my red shoes, that they would be perfect for me (I’d be comfortable in them and love them). So the very last unexplored shoe store was what I have always associated as “old lady” shoes – comfort shoes. But nothing ventured, nothing gained… and ventured in. And ladies… there they were. They actually weren’t my regular size, were a half size bigger, but in this particular shoe, actually fit! They were red, and a three inch high heel with metal studs… hmm unusual and I have never seen an old lady wearing this. And there it was, in the middle of the comfort shoe store, I fell in love and could hardly bear to remove them from my feet just to pay! So my point is, I put the original sexy little numbers back on the shelf with the faith that if I were more discerning and paid attention to my needs/wants, the right pair would materialize. Then, I had to go out of my usual routine and try something that I had never before considered – in fact had always dismissed as “less than”. I think relationships are very much like this, and this parable is how I interpret Nat’s wisdom. And my shoes and I lived happily everafter. The End.
I love your shoe analogy….too perfect! Ugh, how many times have I tried to make a man ‘fit’ with my idea of what “I” wanted in a relationship, even though it was obvious it wasn’t going to happen. Sigh. Also, I finally caught up on your ‘Rebound’ post; thank you for that!
Great analogy, Phoebe!
In fact you inspire me to dump a whole bunch of old clothes and shoes – they never did fit right – as a good metaphor for the spring cleaning I’m doing on my heart! Carrying all that useless stuff around is like carrying around all that emotional BAGGAGE! Ha! I finally get it – like holding on to old hurts as if they were bad shoe purchases that someday I would make finally into good deals!
hello gals! I am so glad this story (which is completely true) was helpful to you. It sure was an eye opener for me!!!
You know, Mag, it is interesting that you say you are going to purge your wardrobe of ill fitting clothes and shoes. I did that recently too… and at first it was hard because I had emotional attachments to certain items, or had paid an awful lot for something that just never felt quite right. But, once they were cleared out, I found I actually didn’t miss them and enjoyed what I did have a great deal more. I really believe that we have to clear out the old in our lives (be they relationships, shoes or clothes that don’t fit us) to make room for the new things that do. I’d rather have less, but items that make me feel comfortable, happy and beautiful, than gorgeous useless things that make me feel less than!
Phoebe
I had a similar epiphany. I got lost in the Barbican for the upteenth time. I KNEW I had made that mistake before, I KNEW I was going to have to turn back. But I was wearing uncomfortable shoes and didn’t want to. I hoped that I might somehow be on the right path.
Yeah, I had to turn back and wish I’d done it sooner. My feet were killing me!
Low self-esteem is like those uncomfortable shoes. It stops you doing what you KNOW is right. Sure, we can all make a mistake but the key is to know it and stop it sooner rather than later.
Phobee and Magnolia, I loved your shoe and pie analogies. As I’ve been working on my self-esteem issues and being blinded by intelligence rather than appearance, I realized I didn’t believe I could find shoes that fit or have the whole pie. Additionally, I was so dazzled by their shiny, showy intellect with bows, I didn’t see that they were only offering 40% of the pie and telling me it was 100%. At some point within my past relationships, I would realize that the shoes didn’t fit and I was still hungry but like you, Grace, I didn’t want to turn back until I had blisters everywhere and was starving to death.
Your comments reminded me of being the eldest of a ton of siblings and, in the rare event we were able to get fast food, we would always have to share our McDonalds Happy Meals. I never got the whole meal deal. As my daughter was growing up (only child), one of her best friends was the eldest of a ton of siblings. One day after school, we stopped at McDonalds and they ordered Happy Meals. I’ll never forget the look on the little girl’s face when she discovered she got her own Happy Meal and didn’t have to share it. She said, “you mean I get the whole thing”.
It is no wonder I’ve settled for crumbs in my former relationships. I was raised on crumbs. I deserve and can have shoes that fit, the whole pie, and the whole Happy Meal deal. What a revelation. I’m going shopping, to McDonalds, and the grocery store to get a whole pie, chocolate cream. Yum. Thank you again ladies. You are brilliant.
Pardon me for being late. GREAT analogy!
What a coincidence that I saw this. I’m selling clothes (and maybe shoes) at a vintage sale this weekend. I’ve gained weight since my big move over a year ago. While I’m working on losing at least 1/2 of the gained weight, it makes no sense to wear stuff that can’t fit anymore; it makes me look frumpy & slovenly while making me feel low in the process. I went through the stuff I’ll be selling and realized that I’m not even gonna miss the stuff that I held on to for so long. So, I finally found a way to get rid of the clothes while making a bit of cash, and maybe I can use some of the money to buy some new clothing to suit me in the meantime.
Out with the old (clothes/assclown men), in with the new (clothes/hopefully a decent man in the future/ME). 🙂
Oh my. I’m working on the unsent letter to my father who I haven’t spoken with in four years after the discovery of his deviant perversion of voyaguerism. I’ve got to do some reading on how that particular perversion affects children. In my writing, I just discovered that in addition to being blinded by what I thought was my father’s intellect, I was blinded by his exceptional appearance. He was drop dead gorgeous by absolutely everybody’s account, not just mine as a little girl, and he is a Peeping Tom. Looks can being so decieving. My father reminds me of Ted Bundy, only Ted is serving time, my father isn’t despite the fact he is still drop dead gorgeous at 70 something. Natalie, your guidelines for the “Unsent Letter” are so wonderful. Thank you.
If I can’t send the “Unsent Letter” to my father, may I read it at his funeral?
Hey Runner,
I guess you have to ask yourself what ultimately you will gain from having read your letter at your dad’s funeral. Would it put at risk, or damage your relationships with other family members? What would it ultimately achieve? Perhaps what you are seeking is a cathartic ritual. Could that not be achieved by writing the letter and having your own private ritual at his passing? The risk you may take at reading a letter at his funeral is that it might contradict or blemish other people’s memory of him and they may blame, resent or punish you for that, thereby perpetuating your initial hurt and pain at your father’s hands. The brilliance of Nat’s letter suggestion is that it allows you to move on and get your own form of closure, but the reason not to send it, is not to perpetuate the pain further. Anyway, my two cents for what they are worth. xo
Yeah Phobee, of course you are right. It was just a thought. I’ll burn it like Natalie suggests. Darn.
To try to wrench that last comment back to the topic – “appearance” isn’t just about being six foot something with a square jaw. It can be the “appearance” that comes with status and authority: looking like a strong man rather than being one. Very fancy and expensive pie crust. Putrid, rotten filling.
Hi runner,
Discard this comment if it means nothing, but your question about reading the letter at his funeral surprised me. I mean, I understand the impulse but if the thought seriously crossed your mind then it sounds like you’re still furious. It reminded me of the moment where a couple of us wondered if with the level of detail in your comments you wanted us to know exactly who the MM was? Sounds like you want to ‘tell’ and for someone to validate your knowledge of what shit behaviour these men are capable of.
I still fantasize about sending a letter to my exAC’s boss to hint that I think he has paedophilic tendencies, or at least shouldn’t be in charge of the high-profile pro-women and pro-minority work he gets so much attention for.
And I wonder now if my desire to “tell” on my own dad, whose porn I found when I was about 10, and have kept that secret from my mother until even now, is a deeper thing for me than I knew. I reacted so strongly against him at the time that I never really considered all the normalizing fallout that I would have learned implicitly: men look elsewhere than their wives; if you say it hurts you they get angry and scary; men are like big kids who want sexy girls like women are girls who want chocolate; etc. There was no one to tell, and even if my mother knew/knows, she would be so hurt if I brought it up, she really tries to maintain her own sheltered consciousness – so I carry that secret.
I hope you find some validation here for your experience and the secrets you know about your father and the MM, so that whatever you do with what you know, you manage to keep YOU safe.
Thank you Magnolia for your thoughtful response. I am finding validation from you, the others, Natalie, and myself. You are very correct, writing the Unsent Letter to my father triggered a lot of buried anger, among other things. The similarities between my father and the exMM are uncanny. I always knew their were similarites but writing it out was stunning. Is think you’ve hit on the major source of my anger: Both are handsome, well respected, in positions of status and authority, and folks are blinded by their “appearance”. But I know their secrets. I didn’t realize my desire to tell the world what asshats (great word) they really are was connected with my need for external validation. I think you are spot on and thank you.
It sounds like the secrets about your father and the suspicion that the ex has pedophilic tendencies are similar to my secrets. I remember when you posted that incident with your friends’ young daughter. That must have been devastating to witness and then have to face the reality that the guy you love may have a big problem. You’ve handled it nicely though. I would never want to hurt others by “telling” which is precisely what would happen. Folks are entitled to manage their sheltered consciousness (you have such a wonderful way with words). That is a great insight. I still struggle with the men and sex thing which is hard to admit at this age. My best girlfriend told me again today: Girls are from Venus and men think with their penis. Absolutely no dating for me until I finally wrap my head around that!
I will use what I know grow and keep ME safe. Thank you for the comforting words. YOU stay safe too, particularly with what you suspect about the ex.
Great reply Magnolia, I posted my comment before I read yours.
Yes, what you said…it is about keeping us safe.
runnergirl, I hope you don’t mean that, reading the unsent letter at his funeral, it is called “unsent” letter because this letter is for you!
You realize by doing that you are just wanting to have the last word.
Your anger right now is misplaced.
Love it! Yeah, and isn’t the right pair of shoes, or jeans or the right dress that both fits and looks great on you…isn’t that just the best investment!
And similarly, just as you shouldn’t buy something that looks great but doesn’t fit, you should never buy something you don’t really love just because it’s on sale or a good price.
Such a great metaphor Phoebe (-:
great post , love it !
I met a gay who really attractive , tall, dark hansom , a model ..
I was model as well – 20 years ago we had a very fantastic time together .. then many years apart .
So I have 2 children , good job , still slim , stylish and optimistic .
I met him in facebook : he still tall and dark , and hansom .. no wife or children , or stable relationship .. still looking for perfections …
Now everything is different ….
Appearance often very deceptive – almost always …
I was so glad to speak with him again , even we decided to catch up in NYC . We both live in different countries . I felt i have feeling again , became very attracted of idea us together again …
So two weeks before our meeting in New York date he said : i can’t make it … 14 th February …. we had so many talks , so many words about how special I a , how different from everybody ( i discovered we have not much to talk about – just the past ) .. then nothing happen … He is unavailable , very selfish and as I can see an unhappy man …
Empty life is give very shallow experience .
I went through real hell for a past few months …..
I would say even most attractive , hansom man, for whom i fantasized all these years will not make me happy because I want more then just a model from poster … more soulful , more mature , intellectually deeper …. to share life ….
Lenna, I find that the ones from way back when who pop back up that will still have an ‘image’ of, can often be the worst to deal with. You need to grow up your perception of him and see if that works with the current you – I think you’re realising than you need more than a guy that used to be hot but is still immature.
This topic is interesting to me. Over the years, I have now developed a prejudice against really good looking men. I see one and I already think negative things, i.e, he’s vain, a hot mess, a jerk, or will probably be all those things. I think that he’s used to women all over him, and he’s probably horribly insecure despite the fact that he’s incredibly attractive. So I find myself turned off by a really attractive man-before he’s even opened his mouth.
I then told myself that whoever I felt was “my type” in terms of sexual attraction-I should avoid, because they’ve always been the AC’s. Problem is-you can’t help who you find physically attractive. Forcing myself to be with someone who I didn’t find attractive just because they had other qualities that were “good” didn’t seem like a fun alternative, either.
I realized that a lot of those “prejuduces” came from the AC’s who felt I was all of those things, because I was attractive. They imposed their insecurities onto me. And so I ended up doing the same. It was easier for me to “reject” a hot man right away, than take the risk and get to know him-and maybe he’d be great and I’d get hurt.
Now, I no longer hold someone’s attractiveness against them. However, I also take my time in getting to know him and even if we date-I don’t allow my attraction to take over. I don’t sleep with them too early on. Surprisingly, I have discovered that a few whom I thought were intially very attractive-as I began to get to know them and discover they are waving AC flags around-I no longer found them attractive. Conversely, men I may not have considered “my type”-as I get to know them, have become more attractive to me. So I think the trick truly, is just taking our times getting to know a potential suitor, and not ruling anyone out intially for either lack of chemistry-or too much.
As I relearn what it is like to be a single woman in the world I read each blog post and reply/comment here. Even though I will be 50 next month, I sure have a lot to learn. That I have learned here (-:
But from my nearly 50 years, I do think there is a difference between “not (all that) interested” and “emotionally unavailable”. The “not all that interested” person brings to my mind the “player” mentality. The ego game. Conquests. Whereas the “emotionally unavailable” brings to my mind the personal issues piece. Self-esteem, pining after an ex….
My one relationship (?) after 25 years of being married and a year of being single…was with a guy who was (and is still) “interested” in me. Okay. I don’t go there though, not any more (thanks Natalie!). But he is “emotionally unavailable”, completely and utterly not over his ex (after 2 years of separation and a divorce). That is that. Not my fault. Nothing to do with me. Good luck to him. And yay me! I get it! In the midst of the “relationship” my dear girlfriend said to me, “Trace, I don’t think this should be so much emotional work.” She was so right. It was absolutely exhausting emotionally. Let him go girls. Go dancing, ride your bike, call up your friends and go for coffee…look outward and let the world in again. Tracy
Exactly, “He wasn’t the one” and by golly if someone is going to be the one let him bend over backwards for me for once – Because my back is only so flexible, it went as far as it could go.
Time to use some of that wasted and unappreciated energy on my self – Go find someone you think is better I don’t care anymore, Because I did the best I could with what I knew at the time, That’s all any of us can do.
Just recently I’ve let an EU and MM sleep with me after two years of no contact. I understand I did solely because he is physically what I consider perfect. I realized, that after all these years I still put him in a pedestal just because of his look, overlooking the fact that he is married and he is not available and not that interested in me. But, as some of you have stated here, I’ve also seek validation on the looks department, because of my very low self-esteem. With Nat’s blog, I have learned a lot and have become more aware of my issues, but I am still dealing with them.
Sometimes I say, f*ck culture and it’s western beatuy’s standards and feel good about my fat body… but there are times when I am only wishing to be thin and not be judge or deemed ugly because I’m fat. I really want to love myself, but I find it hard when I’m surrounded by all that negativity.
Anyways, thank you again Natalie.
Natalie!! I did it.
i broke off the two and a half year waiting game with a man who promised me the world but gave me a pebble. i am now in day 2 of no contact and though i have found myself still glancing at the phone to see if theres a message, i know there wont be. the turning point for me was my son, who was over here staying with me for six months. in that time he had seen Mr unavailable 3 times and quite sternly said to me ” mom what are you doing”. ” we love you ( 3 boys all grown) and we dont even mind that you are over here ( i live ireland they live england) but we dont like you in this situation. you are our mom. you are waiting around for something to happen and the boundaries keep changing. we dont like it, you bought us up to be truthful and honest yet you are with a married lying man. your whole relationship is based on lies”. cut me to the quick. i didnt know they had been feeling that way. everytime i spoke to them over the last couple years they would ask ” are you two together yet”. i felt awfull.
after not seeing Mr U again for days on end with just a few phone calls in between, I managed to get him to meet me at dinnertime. I told him how the kids were feeling. he went ballistic! I dont care what they think of me, he said. well I do, I said. He didnt speak, dropped me back off and though i was upset, i was bloody angry! I emailed him a great long email and told him it was finished. I have had no contact since and though i feel sad, every day i have no contact will be better than the last. thank you so much natalie. I read you every day. I will not get in this situation again I am better than that. when I was suicidal I found your blogs, thank God i did.I put him on a pedestal with me at his feet – but guess what? he fell off – and I stood up and walked. God bless you Natalie for helping me to see sense through your honest words. Please to all my fellow hangers on in similar situations, please dont hang on to nothing because its all you will ever get. i pray i dont go back on this.xxxxxxxx
Carol d,
Hang in there. I have found that it is very hard to remain in denial when you keep up with Nat’s blogs and read the comments from others. Like many others here, Nat’s site has been my one link to and foothold in truth and sense.
These types of men do not take well to criticism of any kind – they do not like that other people around you notice you are being messed about – I have never figured out how they square the circle in their own minds. My Mr EU complained once that he didn’t think my brother liked him, complained that ny brother doesn’t even know him… I told him perhaps my brother thinks that he (the EU) is messing me about and doesn’t need to know him well to see that, and that as his sister he cares about me etc… and then he appeared insulted some more! I have noticed, oddly, that these men seem to be utterly disconnected with their own behaviour – they think they are good guys!.. I have thought recently that this is because he/they compartmentalise their lives so effectively, both in practice and in their own minds – as Nat said… they don’t join the dots to get to the negative result.
I think we often tell the EU or/and MM what other people think (in this case, your sons) in an effort to get them to *see*, to understand, how they are treating us and hopefully then do something about it and we are surprised when telling them what someone else thinks (i.e your sons) has the opposite effect. It’s interesting that the MM told you he doesn’t *care* what your sons think rather than telling you he does *not agree* with what your sons think (there’s an important difference), cos it’s not about *caring*, per se, what other people think… it’s about whether these other people are right or not. In this case your sons are right and you recognised that… perhaps you should have told the MM that the trouble is that you *agree* with your sons view and not that you are simply cow-towing to their views. Not that it matters – MMs just want their cake and eat it; make no mistake about that.
This has been so useful to me – even just as a distraction so i dont focus on my silent phone! I have had my first experience of an EUM – all my previous relationships have been longterm – a couple of ACs – some good relationships. My last relationship of 8 years ended 3 years ago due to my exs increasing anger/alcohol/verbal abuse, but he was not an EUM – he fell in love quickly, very quick to open up, was a very intimate, passionate but flawed relationship :).
I was quite damaged by rhe end and it took me a long time and a few false starts to feel ready to try dating – and my first tentative efforts lasted one or two dates or max a few weeks. My EU issues, no doubt.
When I met my current man in January, I actually thought it felt healthy that he wasn’t in any rush, that he was taking it slowly, he has two young kids so it made sense he wasn’t going to get into a heavy relationship until he was sure it was right. There were signs in the first few months that he was a good but cautious soul – he didnt try to sleep with me for six weeks for eg. All my past relationships were with the ‘sweep you off your feet’ type – but I was very pretty when I was last single – I am in my mid forties now. So now I am still attractive, but feel less so. I have never been interested in looks in men. I have gone out with short men, black men, asian men, tall men, ugly men, gorgeous men. (I was promiscuous when young, absent father).
This guy I met online. I instantly felt connected – we share a lot of beliefs, interests, background stuff. He was slow to ask me out though. I had to sort of prompt him. First date he was a nervous wreck. He didnt contact me within the first 5 days – but I felt the ‘potential’ and suspected he was shy – and gave him a gentle encouragement…. (pattern to continue..)
He has been lovely to me the whole time. Fir the first 3 months it was like nurturing a little baby bird – it was very tender and sweet, and it melted my heart. I think the fact he didnt try to railroad me made me feel he respected me. And for a while he asked all the right questions ‘do you still have feelings for your ex’ ‘do you think you will ever get married again’ sussing my relationship readiness i thought.
Then the disappearing acts started. And the sweet texts telling me I was wonderful stopped. Then he would get in touch to say he had been ill. He has done this a few times now – and I realise he was managing my expectations down, I have come to realise he is terrified of commitment……..maybe of being hurt. He has never had me over to his, or introduced me to anyone. I know he isnt married, but i dont know much else. It is so sad – he has a good soul – just not a complete heart. But I learned from him. that I love tenderness over raunchiness, and he caused me to find here – so I know how to know I am in a relationship mext time.