Several years back, in what turned out to be my ‘epiphany relationship’ that completely changed me, I was involved with someone that:
1) Pursued me and when we finally got together, he said he’d fancied me ever since we’d been introduced several months before (when he was in a relationship by the way…)
2) Said I was a ‘great girl’ and how he loved spending time with me
3) I slept with on a number of occasions and he stayed over
4) We hung out sometimes with each others respective friends
5) I did a lot of ego stroking
6) I listened to his moans and gripes about work and even his ex
7) We went out to dinner and the movies
8. Called, emailed and texted me
9) I made myself available for him to make plans with
I believed we were in a relationship. I’ll admit I didn’t go so far as to call him my boyfriend but I thought we had something decent going on and that we were moving towards a committed relationship. Aside from 2-3 weeks of intensity, the remainder of our five month ‘relationship’ was hot and cold, where both the frequency of seeing each other and the level of contact went downhill and I just didn’t know what to expect or what the hell was going on. It was only when I started to fully acknowledge my discomfort and play the ‘relationship’ back that I realised it was a barely there relationship or as many refer to it, a casual relationship.
Knowing just how hot and cold and inconsistent our ‘relationship’ was, you would be forgiven for wondering how the hell I didn’t realise?
It’s because I was ‘thrown’ off the scent of a casual relationship due to what I saw as the ‘hallmarks’ of a relationship.
It really isn’t too great a leap to believe, that because someone seems to enjoy your company so much, you’re sleeping with them over a period of time, giving them an ego stroke, a shoulder to lean on, being introduced to friends and even family, and are even having references to the future slipped in, that you’re in a relationship.
However it’s best to stop taking that leap and recognise that just because someone does want to contact you, sleep with you, and look for emotional sustenance from you over a period of time, it doesn’t mean you’re in a relationship because without landmarks of a healthy, loving (or on the way to loving) relationship such as commitment, intimacy and progression, your relationship is all shirt, no trousers, ham, no burger, bread, no butter.
Don’t believe how misguided I was? When we finally had The Conversation and I told him that it was obvious that it wasn’t working out, he admitted that he didn’t want a relationship – when we’d got together, he’d broken up with his ex a couple of months before. He then proceeded to remind me that I was gorgeous, fun, intelligent, great to spend time with and yada yada yada.
I was his Fallback Girl and I gave him a soft landing out of his old life and helped him avoid whatever feelings he had about his previous relationship.
Even though our attitude to relationships and what we consider casual has changed over time and includes foolishness like Friends With Benefits, Booty Calls (read: Dial A Lay) and the ‘option’ to boomerang in and out of an exes life at will, most of us still have this idea that someone who doesn’t want a relationship or just wants you for sex, will shag you once, or even a few times and then disappear, or just won’t bother to be with you.
Most of us are conditioned to think that when someone wants to ‘use’ you in a casual way, it’s for ‘sex’. In fact, I in particular get men telling me again and again that it’s for sex and that we [women] should know this. The being used for sex thing is bullshit though, because there’s no need to mock up a pseudo relationship to get laid. The barriers to entry for sex have been well and truly broken down.
No, these ambiguous, confusing, often painful situations arise because the driver of the casual relationship (there is always one that wants it more than the other) is in for whatever they can get with minimal emotional contribution. Their ego isn’t content with ‘just sex’ and they need attention or even a human reminder that they don’t have the problems that they actually do have.
Doing all this other stuff makes their actions and intentions palatable. Just shagging around might say something else about them.
Ultimately, to be ‘alone’ would require them to deal with feelings that they’ve got very good at avoiding by always having a ‘passenger’.
The ‘passenger’, either doesn’t know they’re going on a casual journey and through a lack of boundaries, not paying attention to red flags, and being caught up in latching on to the ‘hallmarks’, ends up along for the ride, or…they do know which journey they’re taking but they think that they can cope with it/that it suits them or, they hope to change the driver’s mind along the way so that they change direction.
And remember: Often when the ‘passenger’ knows that it’s casual, they don’t expect to have relationship type ‘stuff’ expected or even demanded from them.
Experiencing what feel like the ‘hallmarks’ of a relationship, then encourages us to believe that our feelings are growing and that the possibility of a relationship exists.
Of course, it’s like a slap in the face when it becomes clear that nothing more than what is happening is on offer.
The concept of someone fundamentally knowing (whether they admit or not) that they really don’t want to extend themselves beyond getting their needs met and that they don’t ‘see’ you in that [relationship] way is hard for most to grasp.
This is why so many people stick around in unavailable partnerings trying to prove themselves so that they can get validation that they’re not just ‘casually’ regarded.
Fact is, most people can’t handle casual and the words ‘casual’ and ‘relationship’ in the romantic sense, just don’t go together too well, especially since some of these so-called ‘casual’ relationships can go on for a very long time if the ‘driver’ is very good at ‘passing time’, paying lip service to the idea of a relationship, but never actually delivering.
See the definitions of ‘casual’ (pictured above) including ‘relaxed and casual’ and ‘done or acting without sufficient care or thoroughness’ – none of these things say ‘relationship’. To expect someone to treat you with love, care, trust, and respect while in a casual relationship, makes it a relationship because your expectations are not casual – they’re meaningful.
Most of us want to mean something and we want that meaning to extend beyond ‘Good for giving me all the fringe benefits of a relationship without me having to actually even feel very much for them or put in much work’.
Much like when we get caught out by common interests because we don’t realise the importance of shared values, it’s equally important that we get wise to the superficiality that is so prevalent these days and recognise that we now live in a time where people can get so much more, for less.
In a time of instant access, instant communication, instant results, instant array of people to choose from on dating sites, instant sex, and a disposition to avoid feeling our feelings, society seems to have managed down our expectations of relationships and we have managed down our expectations of relationships because it suits where we are at emotionally. We have however, become too casual about ourselves and this is how we open ourselves up to having our boundaries busted and keep ourselves very far from the reality of a healthy, loving relationship.
Being ‘casual’ is so attractive to the emotionally unavailable – You appear to get way more for less without having to get vulnerable and be truly intimate, and which is exactly what you want to avoid. But while some have an active, vested interest in avoiding commitment and healthy relationships, there are lot of people who are unavailable as a result of a variety of factors and habits that just don’t even know what healthy looks like, but who don’t want to be treated in such a casual manner and who as a result of their own beliefs, self-esteem and habits are not always aware of the red herrings that are the ‘hallmarks’ without the ‘landmarks’ of a relationship.
This is why so many people get caught out – because it ‘looks’ like a relationship and may even ‘quack’ like a relationship, but without intimacy, progression, commitment, consistency, balance and a mutual care, trust, and respect, and then eventual love, it doesn’t have the meat or the equipment to walk like a relationship.
You’re not going to turn a pig’s ear casual relationship into a silk purse full on relationship, especially because by having stayed, the other person becomes trained to expect that it’s what they get. If they can get a relationship without putting in the emotional and action effort, there is zero impetus to change and if they felt more consequences and didn’t get what they want for less, they might re-evaluate their actions.
At the end of the day, you’re free to do whatever you like and that includes relationship insanity and trying to get people to make you the exception to their rule, but if you genuinely want to be in a mutually fulfilling, healthy, loving relationship that can actually go the distance, don’t sell yourself short, and as soon as you become aware that your ‘relationship’ is all shirt, no trousers, you opt out. You can’t force substance.
Your thoughts?
Check out my ebooks the No Contact Rule and Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girl and more in my bookshop.
Copyright 2011 Baggage Reclaim
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Hi Nat
perfect as always!
I agree with moved up sounds like my situation fake future plans fake identity and to top it all fake excuses for being an ass*****le!
I am in no contact for 20 days and he shows up at 10:45pm Friday out of the blue all depressed stressed and wierd and I let in half asleep from a stressful day myself
he ate talked (shoulder to cry ego stroke)
and slep on the couch till morning then stayed till after morning after ofcourse he expected the sport Fu** as well which almost happened but I stopped it and he was confused and suddenly kisses and leaves oh and mentions that we are pursuing the divorce and that im not messing around or else he will do this that and the other and I didn’t respnd except told him whatever he thinks
I seem to be the only one he can share stuff with awwwww and shag as I’m safe and he’s not the type to chase skirts this is quote his words
he left haven’t called him and won’t as that was all a load of bullshit and he wants it casual now after 6 years if marriage with me so no investing himself as he has his options open for his goddamn happiness and life and as mind fuc*****ing is his hobby he can’t help himself but see how he can mainpulate mr however as I’m still not that strong as yet!
he has mentioned he will still continue even after we sign the papers!
He doesn’t see me in his screwd up idea of a relationship but still come to me when his diaper needs changing !
Runnergirl,
You asked
“Is there a balance between power and vulnerability? I don’t want to give my power away again either. How do we retain our power and be vulnerable without being taken advantage of and be emotionally available?”
There is a balance between power and vulnerability! Nats articles directs us to realise that, I believe.
Like you said power makes me get real, like you it helps me to get focused and logical. But like with you underlying all that I did have a deep sense of sadness and vulnerability. I learned how to trust myself again – that was the big step for me. I learned to listen to my instincts, to react for MY benefit. If I felt vulnerable and wanted to cry – I did it. (Albeit on my own but I did it and I comforted myself in small ways that helped me tremendously.) But I have not gone back on NC! That for me was the empowering part, that I realised through trusting myself that I actually didn’t need him in my life or to be a part of his.
I know I’ve made progress just through these steps. I know because a guy at work has been after me for three years, he is a total NARC and I have refused him politely many times. The latest episode has been where he had invited himself to my house for dinner – I refused. He didn’t listen. He later said “You’re not going to cook for me are you?” I said “No I’m not and I’ll cook for myself – actually if I don’t want to cook for myself I won’t be doing that either.” He has since left me alone. This man has the capacity to worm his way into someones life and screw it up – but it’s only because he thinks I’m weak. Totally nice when he sees me, says hello, then criticises something about me. Next time he is critical I’m going to haul his arse over the coals! It’s difficult because we’re in a work situation together, but to say I dislike him would be an understatement. I am not available for him.
It’s when we know how to say NO to situations that are no good for us by trusting ourselves and our instinct that we are better able to identify red flags. The opposite is the case, too. Once we are healed, once time has passed, we are able to trust ourselves more and then our hearts and minds become more open to trusting another. It’s a huge step to trust another, but it must start with us first. It’s then when we are healed are more trusting that vulnerability is a positive thing not a negative thing, because the right person, the one you trust will never abuse the trust you have given them by showing your vulnerable side. In turn, that is pretty empowering stuff.
That’s what I believe, anyway, after going NC and taking time on me.
Last night, I severed my last tie with the ex MM. I had all his websites and flickr page on an RSS feed. I deleted it all and I’m happy that I did it. I’m just not interested in him anymore and I’m happy to be getting my life back on track
Hang in there! *hug*
Thank you Leigh. You sound as though you are making such great progress by trusting your instincts and staying NC.
“It’s then when we are healed are more trusting that vulnerability is a positive thing not a negative thing, because the right person, the one you trust will never abuse the trust you have given them by showing your vulnerable side. In turn, that is pretty empowering stuff.” This is a great comment. Of course, feeling vulnerable is scary, more so when there is no trust. Inherent in being involved with a MM is a lack of trust. Good luck to you in moving on. MM or any attached individual is such grief.
Oh, but watch the NARC at work. It sounds from the outside like he is testing your boundaries. I hope you can keep saying NO! Cook him dinner…yikes. Sounds a bit like a shag, ego stroke and dinner to boot. He sounds a bit off, based on your description. Hang in there.
“It’s when we know how to say NO to situations that are no good for us by trusting ourselves and our instinct that we are better able to identify red flags”.
I don’t have any problem identifying red flags however I do still have major issues with acting on them. I find I purposely ignore red flags when I meet a guy I really like because I am afraid that it will be a long time before I meet another guy I’m attracted to (I’m fairly picky).
But since discovering this site I’ve gotten a LOT better at it. What used to feel nice and familiar (unavailable man, being treated less than respectfully etc) now feels uncomfortable and not very nice. So much so that I have just ditched the latest inappropriate guy I became entangled with after a very brief 4 weeks when usually I’d carry on for months or until they dumped me.
Amazing — the posters above have described my relationship! I was a “confused and helpless passenger”, used as a “two-year stand”. I now “feel like I have been robbedof two years of my life” and realise that “these people just look for the next person who will provide them with what they need with the minimal inconvenience to themselves”. How come you guys know my relationship? Uncanny!
For 18 months Mark and me went on occasional dates and afterwards made love. We grew increasingly emotionally close and on Valentine’s Day 2010 he surprised me by turning up unannounced with a bouquet of flowers. He’d shown his true feelings and I realised that I, too, had similar feelings for him. We deepened and cemented the relationship by going on a foreign holiday: being together 24/7 changed everything. He behaved exactly as a man does when he is falling in love. He was so romantic, so attentive, so emotionally engaged with me, caring deeply to make me happy in every way he could. He gazed into my eyes lovingly. We bared our souls. It was VERY intense, powerful, emotionally arousing, very exciting to feel us falling in love. (Blowing Hot.)
After the holiday, I told him I loved him. He said he still wasn’t quite recovered from the trauma of his last LT relationship. He wasn’t ready to get too committed. (EUM) He respected, admired, and liked me. He was in for the long haul with me (Future Faking). So I stuck by him, waiting for him to catch up with where I was. I was patient, undemanding, just loved him – that is the only way to induce a man to love you, isn’t it? Says so in all those How-To-Win-Him e-books!
I felt secure when he booked another holiday, six months in advance, and twice as long as the first. Apart from his not saying “I love you”, we became like any other LT couple and he opened up and shared everything with me, involved me in his projects, shared all his troubles and thoughts with me (used me as an Ego Stroke and a Shoulder To Cry On). We’d see each other twice a week, exchanged over 1, 000 emails and chatted on the phone. He was always nice, kind, reliable. What made me unhappy was that he wanted to have sex with other women.
I’ve had dozens of lovers but, although 50, he’d had few women. He said he needed to have sex with a few more to “get it out of his system” before committing himself 100% to someone again. I desperately wanted to be that “someone” so I accepted. I loved him so much, if this it what it took to win him, I would go along with it. He pledged to be tell me everything, never lie to me or them, and tell them it was just a fling because he had a long term girlfriend.
It gradually emerged that a woman he claimed was an occasional shag was feeding him twice a week. He spent a lot of non-sex time with her, doing DIY, taking her out etc. I was very upset but backed down rather than lose him. He said as soon as she found a proper boyfriend she’d dump him. She was on internet dating, so “it would not be long now” (a new twist on Future Faking) I loved him so very much, if this it what it took to win him, I’d tolerate it.
To silence my objections he swore that any future shag would be just that: no dates, no emotional involvement, no lies, no secrets.
Each time I had misgivings, Mark would charm me round. Just days after one such session of manipulation, he started seeing another woman in secret, lying to me AND lying to her. By the time I found out they’d been dating for a month and were emotionally involved. She had withheld sex so far, because she has very high self esteem and is very demanding, demands total commitment, total monogamy. And guess what? He was enchanted by her and later dumped me and the other woman in order to give her the 100% monogamy that she demands.
The moral of my story is, don’t give them unconditional love, don’t accept half a loaf, don’t settle for crumbs, don’t be pliable, undemanding, liberal etc. Not only does it totally wreck your own self esteem, it doesn’t even work because he’ll run off with someone who demands high standards from him.
oh and Mark P, don’t put this other woman on a pedestal and imagine she’s better than you. she has her own issues if she goes for a man already in a relationship and uses sex as a bargaining chip. the chances are this will backfire on her. but you have bigger issues to deal with – why you allowed yourself to be mistreated like this and why you needed his (worthless) attention so much.
Marks-Poppet,
I agree with Grace – don’t put him or her on a pedestal. There are articles on here about ‘why her and not me?’ read those and then see how you feel.
I have been the ‘next woman’ after the previous woman ‘lost out’ (pah!) on my ex EUM. She saw us out together one night and was very upset. She must have wondered why he had ‘chosen’ me, was i different, etc? No i was not! I put up with faaaar less crap than her, i wasn’t the result of a one night stand like she was, he pursued me, whereas she had pursued him, i called him on all his crap, she put up with being a weekend hook up. Did i fare any better? Nope! He still pushed my boundaries, he still took me for granted, everything was on his terms, i was not a part of his life, he swanned in and out whenever he wanted (and it was great fun when he swanned in). Eventually i had enough and dumped him. He made a HUGE play to get me back, then dumped me 2 weeks later by email.
.
I went NC and stayed NC after that. She has been back and forth with him FOUR TIMES! He’s now ‘single’ (i bump into him occasionally) and still singing the same old ‘i have issues with committement’ song. I am now happily with someone decent (and trying not to stuff it up)
Put yourself on a pedestal instead! You don’t need someone who is incapable of giving you what you want.
Minky,
THANK you for this!! I was feeling a twinge of jealousy yesterday thinking of one of the other women my ex was pursuing, who had way better boundaries than me, and he was pursuing her. My friend said to me, “You’re asking yourself why the abusive man wants her and not you?” lol. These men don’t change! That’s part of the attraction, though, right? Being attracted to men who don’t change so we don’t have to either, we can cling to our known patterns and behaviors. For some of us, the familiar pain trumps the unknown until it’s so painful we can’t stand it anymore and do something different.
Your story is certainly an eye-opener. These men aren’t really capable of treating women well. But GOOD JOB in walking away — I only wish I’d found it that easy. I never thought I would ever stop weeping over him. More fool me, eh?
My ex isn’t actually WITH the Next Woman because (after he gave me and the other one up for her) she rejected him. But he still has the one he had alongside me — his Fallback Girl, in Natalie’s parlance.
I just want to add that this blog is brill — telling my story to you all made me realise what a mug I have been, and hearing your replies confirms that I was indeed a victim and should never have accepted his messing me about. It’s very useful to hear other people’s views.
Sunshine and Marks-Poppet,
They rarely change – and even if they do, once you have addressed your issues and changed your relationship patterns, you won’t care anymore. You will value yourself too highly to get involved with an EUM or AC, or give the time of day to someone who was stupid enough not to see how wonderful you were. This is how i feel about my ex EUM and i never thought i would get over him!
If a decent guy wants to be with you, he will be with you. Simple. It won’t be all plain sailing, but it won’t be hard work and constant dissatisfaction either.
Marks poppet
First thing pretty lady is to stop calling yourself names. Mug? Fool? That’s no way to talk to a friend. It’s natural to feel shame, that doesn’t make anyone a fool. A fool takes advantage of good people. Maybe another kind of fool would keep going back for more, but you are not. You’re doing the very hard work, of moving on. ((hugs))
@ Grace. I said above, he lied to her. Said he was single. No blame on her. Your other comments are valid though. I just loved him so much, I thought, if I stick by him, let him get this out of his system he will reward me by being mine all mine…….
Oh you commented again… yes, knew it was a red flag, knew it wasn’t the usual way, but I felt so selfish kinda asking him to commit and miss out on sowing his wild oats when I’d sown loads of my own! Never again, obviously! Now I know that the woman he REALLY values is the one who would not have stood for ANY of it…. grrrr! Now I know that he’s willing to give up the chance of sex with other women to be with her …. but he would not do it for me…. What an insult! I am a Baggage Reclaim Girl now — this is my Bible!!!!
marks
eek, it gets worse. he can’t have that much respect for her if he lied to her. he sounds like an all round user and you are best shot of him.
he may be giving up sex with other women … for now. who knows what he will do when the novelty has worn off.
i doubt very much that he has changed, she’s made him jump through a few hoops but deep down he’s still a lying cheat. the only way that will change if he gets a wake up call. which is unlikely when there seems to be a steady stream of women who are lapping it up.
i don’t think she’s the wake up call; if it ever happens it will be x years down the line, maybe after a period of singledom, or something huge like his father dying or suchlike. woman just don’t have that much power to change a man. pick a good one to start with, not a rubbishy one that you hope to change with good boundaries etc. good boundaries are to stop twits getting in, they are not for changing twits that you let in.
Marks,
The most important thing is that have to remember to love and respect ourselves, or no one else can-The bit about having sex with other women was quite disturbing.
1. She probably did not know that he was in another relationship (or two).
Also, say she did know–so what!–one month in is too early to have sex.
2. Given the above, she did not use sex as a bargaining chip. In fact, she was smart for making clear her intentions and demands, especially with such a man. She made herself 100% clear with him as to where she stood. She even was gutsy enough to address being monogamous–she didn’t acknowledge or give a head-nod to (the fact of) his having other women. Nope. She didn’t acknowledge the negative, much like a wife does not (and SHOULD NEVER) address the existence of a mistress. Rather, she took a positive spin on it all and said, “Monogamy for me. Commitment for me.” (me. me. me.) She acknowledged herself and her needs and, in so doing, nullified everyone else.
I did not have sex before marriage. I never considered this a way of bargaining for anything. I just wanted to protect myself! But I was the Undemanding One with everyone I dated, believing that it was better (or enough) just to see how the guy would behave; juge him on his actions, I believed, without any outside influence. Would he value that he was with a girl who takes herself very seriously, in all aspects of her life (work, schjool, sex, friends, etc.) on his own, without me making demands b/c he is lucky to be with someone like me? Or will he (still) be greedy, and want to look around (or whatever)?
Well, what was the use of his knowing all of this when I never with any guy made clear my demands past one remark (always along the lines of, “If you’re here to have fun, then leave me alone”) with any guy who seemed to be wanting to still play the field? (Which, people, almost 100% of them, EU or not, still want to do!)
Funny, whoever I didn’t explain things to ALWAYS came back (after looking around, continuing to have sex with others, doing their own whatever-they-need-to-do-to-get-out-of-their-system-stuff, etc.)…to the girl of no-demands, no-sex-card…and, by then, no-more-interest!
I think it all comes down to THE GUY. A good guy, WHO IS READY FOR A RELATIONSHIP, you don’t HAVE TO explain who you are to–he just knows and appreciates you for you.
If this situation with Mark and the New Girl backfires in any way, it WON’T be b/c of her and any “sex card” or “game” she is “playing”–she likely has done nothing wrong–it will be b/c of him and his issues, not being ready, whatever.
Just to clear up a few tiny details… she definitely did not know he already had two LT sex relationships – he lied to her; and in the end she’s not with him, as she is with someone else. And I am glad, cos she’s probably a perfectly decent person who does not deserve the misery he would have brought her with his EU nature. So, by messing with us both, he lost her and he lost me.
GRACE – “whether he will drive 50 miles to pick up your dad from the airport, come over when you are sick, encourage you if you get made redundant”… nope, he would not have done any of those things, as no care for anyone, no empathy. I did ask him to do me a favour once, and he made such a fuss I didn’t dare ask anything again.
Whatever the type of woman he was with, the guy was always the same, a jerk!
Marks-Poppet,
Your post (and many others) broke my heart. It hit really close to home. Thank you for sharing. Everytime I get weak, I think about what pain I’d be going back to….”waiting for him for him to catch up”. “I loved him so much, if this it what it took to win him, I would go along with it.” That’s precisely what I remember thinking. After 40 days of NC, I can’t believe I was in that spot too. I wish you the best. I also remember thinking that this is better than nothing. I’m relieved I finally got to the point that not him was better than him. What a journey of the heart.
Runner,
It helped me a great deal not to keep track of the days, as it yet another way to stay attached to the situation.
Time to put the focus on you!
Actually, I’ve lost track of the days. I think you are right about not keeping track at this point. It felt good in the beginning but now it just takes time to go back and count and I’m not sure it matters any more. I’m trying to put the focus back on me but, as you know, it isn’t easy since I virtually gave up my life to accomodate his. I’m slowly reconnecting with friends and family, and thinking about things I’d like to do, although I’m not really doing anything yet. Presently, I’m just working on my classes which I had neglected due to 5 years of work insanity and being quiet. The quietness is nice sometimes and lonely sometimes. I did see the ex on the news today and he is wearing his wedding ring. When we met and I asked why he didn’t wear a wedding ring, he indicated that he hadn’t worn it for years and she didn’t care. Apparently, that must have been a lie or she woke up recently and figured out he wasn’t wearing it. Married men who cheat suck.
Thanks RunnerGirl. Isn’t it amazing how many stories on here are SO similar? It’s like we all dated the same man, yet it cannot be, as there are different countries, different continents involved. I know Mark thinks our story is unique to us, but it’s not. It’s a pattern of men (usually) trying to get as much “relationship” stuff out of us as they can without giving anything of themselves, or their love, in return.
after reading all of this, I did break down in tears, as it hurts, I didnt realise that there was other guys out there doing the same thing. Ive been seeing a guy on and off for the past 18 months, he cools it every now and again, not sure why, I should after all this time, he prob gets bored and scared as we like a “old” married couple at times. as i do the housework when I’m around, cooking, I do it as I love him, and now I’m sat on my pc watching him flirt with another woman, who he got her number the other week, via a works night out. they even txt one another while I was with him, he claimed it was someone else until I saw her name. he claimed its harmless. so why carry on.
I’m sat here crying as I know I’m stupid, I walked away from a unhappy marriage not long ago as he was mental abusing me. thought I had met someone who wanted me for me.
I cant say NC, as I know I wont hear from him again. Friends are often telling me to wake up and walk away, but I cant.
molly
i can’t believe you would blame yourself for his behaviour. You do the housework, you cook for him, I’ve no doubt you do other things for him. He should be bloody grateful, not mucking about with other women.
Bored and scared? More like living the high life! Doting girlfriend at home that he can pick up an drop as he fancies, while he flirts with and shags others. Why can’t we see these users for what they are! Bored and scared my arse!
Sorry to rant Molly but I do feel really angry on your behalf.
Molly, I felt the same way. I couldn’t believe that my situation was so similar to the stuff Natalie writes about and the posters comments. It might be a good idea to get Natalie’s books. This site opened my eyes, once I stopped crying. NC is hard but staying in an unhealthy relationship gets harder once the denial cracks and you can see it for what it is. You deserve better. Grace is right, don’t blame yourself for his dodgy behavior. We’ve all stuck by “him”, to no avail.
Molly,
You had a life before this, and you will have one after.
You are choosing to allow this man to take advantage and disrespect; your friends are right.
You think it’s bad now. Just wait until your self-esteem has been depleted to nothing! Get out now, and try to figure out why you continue to choose emotionally abusive relationships!
Molly, you’re an ‘over-giver’. Instead of looking at him, start asking yourself why you’re fannying around cooking, cleaning etc for him when he has at least one foot out of this relationship? You’re committed to an uncommitted relationship which is major commitment issues. I appreciate you’re trying to show your ‘love’ but his interpretation of love may be very different to yours plus cooking and cleaning for someone else are not love demonstrations, especially around someone like him who may see you akin to a housekeeper. Housework is not a way of meeting someone’s needs. You are focusing on the wrong things and treating yourself like a skivvy in the process. If you fear for his hot dinners so much, give him a M&S voucher and a cleaner’s number and wash your hands of him. It’s not harmless – you’re sitting at home crying while he disrespects you with someone else. He’s a loser. Stop treating yourself like a loser.
“So I stuck by him, waiting for him to catch up with where I was. I was patient, undemanding, just loved him – that is the only way to induce a man to love you, isn’t it? Says so in all those How-To-Win-Him e-books!”
No! It’s the way to establish your doormat status. You need to read Rori Raye instead – what you need to do is Circular Dating and learn how to make your wants and needs clearly articulated! Together with NML these are the two most useful resources on the net!
Marks
I’m really sorry but when I read “he wanted to have sex with other women” I stopped to make this comment. I’ll go back and read on but I’m sure you know that’s a red flag. It’s what scuppered my last relationship – I knew that I didn’t want to be part of that.
It’s not a reflection on you or your value or your attactiveness. Come on, look at Cheryl Cole.
Also, I was sceptical when I read about the nice holidays etc. That’s all very well but ultimately it’s the day-to-day stuff that really counts – whether he will drive 50 miles to pick up your dad from the airport, come over when you are sick, encourage you if you get made redundant, things like that. Anyone can have a nice holiday and say sweet stuff.
In the last argument I had with my EUM, he threw out this “I am not looking for a girlfriend..”. But during the short ‘relationship’(maybe it was ‘encounter’), there was this “You are girlfriend material” and “Let’s take a chance on this, I know we both are scared, we can make it work”, “Let’s travel to India together”. I invited him to Christmas dinner, I met his friends….
He was blowing hot and cold, future faking…He wanted way more than sex, there was a lot of emotional support from me to him and I felt used – like I was his unpaid therapist. I wasn’t just a booty call. This is what is so confusing and infuriating. You THINK you are in a relationship but you AREN’T.
@ Ms Blue — I think we shared the same man LOL
I decided to forgive myself for ‘dating’ (‘encountering’?) this EUM. I do it every morning and night b/c that is when I feel miserable the most. It helps me keep NC. I put my hand on my stomach/chest and say, “I forgive myself for…I release this person from my life”.
I also do a lot of affirmations (“I am in a healthy and loving relationship ….”). I’m also reading a book called Love in 90 Days and find that doing breathing exercises (pranayam) helps. It’s like detoxing from a drug.
hey grace!
Thank you for the answer. You are 100% right. I didn’t say it right, i think, my brother is a classic Mr. EU, and he’s a good person, a great brother, a loyal friend, just not a good boyfriend, actually a horrible boyfriend… and emotionally unavaliable, like my dad, my mum (a fallback girl), me (also a fallback girl:). I’m really thankful for your answer, you explain things so clearly, there’s no room for bullshit interpretations:)))
Anyway, I’m keeping away from “my lost boys” as I call them (my ex boyfriends). I broke up with my last EUM in August and I’ve been no contact and single since then, it feels good, no more drama, focusing on me and my issues.
One think is still not clear to me: so emotionally unavaliable men change, when they meet a woman, who is so special for them, that they want to become connected??? or what is the reason?
i need some help with this:)
thanks xoxo
ana
when/if the EUM changes is out of our hands as i’m sure you know. however, i’m quite sure that he doesn’t change with the current woman only with a new one. it’s not because the new one is “better” but because there is no baggage with a new woman. there’s no history of him having treated her badly, no games, lies, hot and cold, breaks ups etc.
ana – i hit return to soon,
also, timing is everything. if he’s made the changes and wants to commit the next woman is likely to be “the one” or maybe the one after. he certainly won’t be going through dozens more as before!
all you can do is pick a good guy at the outset rather than wait for him to change for you.
Grace exactly ! They move on to other women….because there is NO BAGGAGE!!………….it’s not even personal..!
They go through this with woman after woman, stupidly (? ) falling over their own feet?
My EUM set me up initially as a trusting friend…sex partner, and as an “understanding, liberal minded older woman, who would hold down the fort…he wanted me to rent a three bedroom apt.
He would have his own room….just in case he wanted to “entertain”………and a room for myself, and one for my son who was 18 at the time.
My EUM also had a 2 year old son….who I met a year into the relationship…..He even considered that I would be a part-time care taker for his child.
He asked me to sit for his son once….at his Mom’s……and his mother sat down with me and just let loose about his “lifestyle”…the only thing she said in a positive light is that he was a good parent.
We were steady for 2 years…but it was obvious to me that he was looking for a “situation” that would suit him best, very unorthodox at best. I was 45 when we met , he was 24.
Now he turning 30 in a few months.
He wants out of any intimate relationship with me…and wants to move on to a more normal relationship.
Poor thing, he says women only want him for booty call.
He was a skilled “future faker”, liar and admitted to me that I was “convenient” for the last 5 years.
His narcissism turned him into a “GTL” guy. (gym, tan, laundry)
and I hardly recognize him as the young man that I first met.
At least he stopped smoking.
“No Contact ” is a beautiful thing.
Its been a month for me…and I fell off the wagon once, but I’m back on. Thank you Natalie.
Very good article. On the flip side, there really isn’t anything wrong with casual relationships or serial monogamy. Not all relationships are meant to last a lifetime, and that’s OK too. We learn from relationships. We learn about ourselves and what we want and don’t want. So what if all relationships don’t last forever. If you get your basic needs met, why should a woman feel she has wasted her time with a man just because a relationship didn’t lead to marriage?
From my experience, I’ve found that a lot of the men I dated in the past weren’t ones I would want to grow old with, but so what? The relationships provided what I needed at different stages in my life. I don’t feel they used me, nor I them since all along I got something out of the situations most of the time (except when I didn’t understand why boundaries mattered).
I don’t think a relationship has to be headed to the altar to qualify as a relationship. So when you say, “This is why so many people get caught out – because it ‘looks’ like a relationship and may even ‘quack’ like a relationship, but without intimacy, progression, commitment, consistency, balance and a mutual care, trust, and respect, and then eventual love, it doesn’t have the meat or the equipment to walk like a relationship” — I think there are different types of relationships, different qualities of relationships, and that’s OK too.
Yeah, when I was in my 20′s and 30′s i was EU and my 2 common-law partners begged me to marry them. i did learn from the relationships but in a way, i did string them along as passing time candidates. I was right to be EU but I didn’t tell them that i never intended to marry them. I used them. I was in my emotional baggage and unaware of personal responsibility. Because of my childhood wounds, father being a jerk, etc. I never wanted to commit to them and was angry at men.
Now in my 40′s I have cleared a lot of my commitphobe issues and I think I’ve developed 5 core values: spirituality, loving nature, positive mental attitude, emotional stablitiy/maturity and desire for family/commitment/monogamy. I will attract a partner with these same 5 values. It took a while to get to this place, but relationships are mirrors. It sounds cliqued but it is.
Being clear in what you want and being honest in communicating it to your partner – whehter you want a casual relationship or a committed relationship is the issue w/most women here.. Nobody deserves to be strung along and used. I think in this blog, most of the women want a commited relationship and feel disrespected when used as a booty call, unpaid therapist, etc. This is all a process. WE all all learning about boundaries, healing past emotional wounds, communication, etc. I’ve done the using, now I am being used, so I know how it feels. Karma is a bitch!
Anonymous, I think your comment, “If you get your basic needs met” is key. Some people are in relationships where they don’t get their basic needs met and don’t know quite why.
You’re right that if what we value currently are relationships without expectations of marriage or long-term commitment, then it’s totally fine to be with people who share those values. Natalie has never said anything against knowing what your intentions are, and if your intentions are to have fun and stay uncommitted, that’s cool.
All too often, however, one person is wanting more than the other. All too often, people who don’t want much say and promise that they do. If you don’t feel you got used, then that’s great, and it’s nice to hear from a woman who is out there moving through relationships on her own terms. But it sounds as though there was a time when you didn’t understand why boundaries mattered and got dinged.
This post is for all of us still learning why and how boundaries matter.
“If you get your basic needs met, why should a woman feel she has wasted her time with a man just because a relationship didn’t lead to marriage?”
Because some young women whose goal is marriage/children get strung along by AC Future Fakers, thus wasting some of their most fertile years.
I didn’t want marriage or kids, but I DID want a proper, committed long term equal relationship with a man I could spend my retirement with. He didn’t, but after I declared I was in love with him, instead of telling me straight we had no future, he told me I was “nearly” the perfect woman for him and that he was “nearly” ready to commit to someone. These carrots on sticks made me jump through hoops like a performing circus animal for months on end trying to change his “nearly” to “definite”, yet all the while he knew he didn’t want me.
And that, my friend, is what is so cruel about these EUM and ACs.
Marks,
Same story for me.
Thankfully, we now know that we shouldn’t have to “jump through hoops” for a man to love us-just makes them lose more respect, anyway. The relationship should be natural and easy, not filled with drama and anxiety.
Anonymous-
You make a very good point that not all relationships must lead to the altar. However, I think it is important to acknowledge that as long as BOTH parties are knowingly on the same page, it is acceptable and not when one pulls the wool over the other’s eyes in order to get his/her needs met.
Oh my. Natalie and folks, you all are so spot on. I’ve just got to share and I have a question. I’ll be brief because it is so textbook. Ex MM #1 has apparently just blown into town, left a message, and wants to get together for a chili dog (that was our thing). We were supposed to get together at Xmas but I didn’t hear from him, which was fine because I had discovered this site while he blew cold and wouldn’t have responded anyhow. I also didn’t accept his friend invite on Facebook. This guy was the classic EUM AC from hell. Before I discovered this site, I thought I had to “be friends”. Don’t ask, I was in a total fog. So, he blows into town today, unannouced, and thinks I’m going to drop what I’m doing to give him an ego stroke and probably the other kind of stroke too. When I listened to the message, I couldn’t believe it. Here’s my question: If these EUM AC men choose her and not me, why the sam hell do they keep lurking around? When he called at Thanksgiving to set up a Xmas, it was totally out of the blue after two years of not a single word. Now again, totally out of the blue. If they choose her, why don’t they leave me alone? I’m so grateful for this site. Without it, I’d be screaming at him on the phone to go take a flying…..off a short pier. Dear God!
Runnergirl: back. away. from. the. toxic. chili. dog.
Every time I think about potentially having a coffee with the ex-AC, I play this imagined conversation in my head, between he and one of his buddies. The first part is the satisfying part:
Him: She never returned any of my calls. I can’t believe she totally cut me off.
But then:
Buddy: Don’t you worry, she’ll come round.
I then realize that no matter how long it takes, for the rest of my life, if I ever say okay to a coffee and a ‘catch-up’ chat, that will signal me being ‘over it’ which will translate in his mind to ‘she’s not mad anymore so we’re cool’ or ‘she’s over it so I am off the hook and never have to have her cross my mind with a pang of guilt again.’ I never want him to have the satisfaction of feeling let off the hook, because that’s all it ever would be.
My other imagined scenario is me running into him years later and him falling to his knees saying he realizes what an ass he was and begs me to forgive him. But the reality is that in order for that ever to happen, he would have to become the kind of person who would have realized that in many ways pursuing me was almost inappropriate, and if that happened he’d probably have to pursue a woman who was more suitable. So that fantasy goes out the window because if he grew up, he wouldn’t have been interested in me in the first place (he’s that much older, that much more established, etc etc).
My sister has been in a situation like yours and she is not as much the fantasizing kind. There was, when she was about 20, a guy who passed through her world and left without my ever meeting him, but whom she from then on referred to as Asshole Jeff. Even in her 30s, Asshole Jeff drops her a line every year or two. She said to me, all he wants to know is that he can get me to meet with him. Then he thinks, ha, I AM all that, she’ll still meet with me. And she didn’t want to give him the satisfaction. I swear, when she’s 50, Asshole Jeff will still be dropping her a line every couple of years when he blows into town.
NC all the way, I say.
NC all the way. No toxic chili dogs for me. I think your sister’s Asshole Jeff may be my Asshole Greg. Your sister’s senario is what is going on here. “…all he wants to know is that he can get me to meet with him. Then he thinks, ha, I AM all that, she’ll still meet with me.” And, I’m sure he wants to be let off the hook as well just like your ex. I have no fantasies about this AC. He was such a total jerk, I’m soooo glad I escaped. His little saying was that I was too young and energetic and full of life for him. He was right! I can’t believe they just lurk around forever.
In your senario about meeting up with him and he falls to his knees, you mentioned that his pursuing you was almost inappropriate and that he would have to pursue a woman who was more suitable…do you mean older? I don’t know you but based on your posts, you are suitable!
Actually, I thought a bit more about the suitability thing after I posted. I did think ‘older,’ but more specifically I mean someone who can meet him in his world. I am in the arts and currently studying, and with him in finance and politics I didn’t have the background to know better when he would say he was planning to get involved with this particular politician, or local developer, or philanthropist, etc. There are women my age who are firmly ‘in’ his world and could potentially have a reasoned opinion of their own about political strategy when they sit down to dinner with him (as opposed to me, who could only ask questions, or say what my intuitive read was of a situation).
But I realized as I thought about it, that a few of my core values are fairness, a balance of power between intimates, and voluntary disclosure/transparency of personal struggles. It’s not my age, or even my field, that makes me unsuitable. It’s that my age and field fit me to be an acolyte, not a partner, to someone like him. I guess he and I were ‘suitable’ for each other in a value system of blurred boundaries between mentor/mentee, man/boy, etc. Given my stance on power dynamics, that wasn’t for me.
As for how this relates to the post of casual relationships, again, I think the lightbulb thing for me is realizing that for some people, “getting a wife” is not the same as “finding a partner to share the journey of life.” The title they give you has nothing to do with how much mental/emotional energy they will give you.
Have you ever watched ‘The Good Wife’? I just watched the first 4 episodes: main character is the whipsmart, cheated-on wife of a prominent state attorney. It’s Hollywood but I saw lots in it that validated my sense of the boys’-club, playground corrupt mentality that I got a taste of.
Lately I have been feeling like a stray animal that he picked up and brought into ‘proper human society’ and, now that I bit the hand that feeds, has been released back into the wild. No consolation that I ran off because he wanted me to heel, and wanted to pick up other ‘strays’ he came across. He still sits in his house like the comfortable human, thinking, I fed her, I let her sleep in my bed, I took her for walks in beautiful places and she still growls and snaps at me because I don’t jump to her beat? Let her go back to the alley and see how she likes it. I’ll get myself a pet that appreciates what I do for her.
It was so confusing because, in many ways, I could tell that I was getting the “preferred” pet treatment. It’s almost enough to make you feel that you’re not being treated ‘casually.’ But even if you’re being groomed, fed organic, taken for lots of runs, “petted” well and often, and even allowed to live in the masters’ house, being taken seriously is not part of the deal. That would require compromise, negotiation and respect of your independent opinion. Expecting to be taken seriously is where you start to be a pain in the *ss – you start to require some forethought –
Okay, I’m rambling. Feeling the loneliness and anger today. Thanks for the question, sorry for the venting.
Hi Lynn
What an introspective take on how he made you feel..like a pet, an object, a thing. Not a sentient adult human being. Now it gives ‘me’ something to think about because my EU came to me like a wounded stray, sought me out. I took him in [emotionally] and once his ego recovered, he ‘bit’ me so to speak. But I never, ever set out to make him my ‘pet’, the analogy came to me only after I gave him alot of chances to be a decent person and then finally had to give up on him [return him to the shelter? ha ha]
Hey Lynn,
NO apologies necessary. I know the loneliness and the anger. Communicating via writing is sometimes difficult. Therefore, if I’m not understanding something you wrote, ignore what I say. When you said: “It’s not my age, or even my field, that makes me unsuitable. It’s that my age and field fit me to be an acolyte, not a partner, to someone like him”; it made me think that may be how he acted and how he treated you, as a follower and not a partner. That may be the imbalance of power you refer to but I’m not certain it is because you were unsuitable or there were other women who could better discuss a reasoned political strategy. Could you be being really hard on yourself? Also, based on your stray animal analogy, it made me wonder if he treated you like a pet. Additionally, could you possibly be putting him on a pedestal? The reason I say this is based on my own experience with the ex who is a politician and the former president where I worked. In my circumstance, he placed himself on a pedestal. Our little joke was that he would say “rank has it’s privileges” when he got to throw his weight around. And, when my weekend started at 2:00 on Thursday because I was so unimportant and he had to work through the weekend because he was so important, I’d say “no rank has it’s privileges”! When we ended it, I placed him on a pedestal, until Allison and Fearless knocked him off of it for me. They told me that he’s just a guy, not a god or a ghost. Your ex is just a guy, not a god or a ghost. Don’t deify him. Your comments regarding “getting a wife v. finding a partner” have so resonated and helped me a lot. I can see where getting the preferred treatment made it seem like a real relationship not a casual one. But not being taken seriously is a big problem. It sounds to me as though you may have escaped a rather dreary, albeit glamorous future. Your comments make me think about my ex MM’s wife and why she refused to attend political events except when it was absolutely necessary. I’ll relate a story that may make you smile a bit. There was a black tie political event this past summer and the wife had to attend. Apparently, I found out later she spent the entire week pitching a fit about having to attend. Of course, I spent the entire week pitching a fit about not being able to attend. By the time the evening of the event rolled around, the ex MM was a nervous wreck. We spent the entire evening on the phone and text fighting. I was home alone, as usual, reading Anna Karenima (an OW) and was at the part where she throws herself on the train tracks (sorry to spoil the story if you haven’t read it). Later, I saw pictures from the event in the newspaper and she was there sitting next to him staring off into space looking like she would rather be on the train tracks herself. I never understood that picture and why she was do disengaged until I read your posts. She has the title. I’m thinking maybe one day we may be grateful we don’t? Give yourself a hug, lots of love, and I’ll do the same. I do hear your anger and loneliness. Being angry and lonely now may beat a lifetime of staring off into space with the title and with him?
One more thing. Presently, I cannot distinguish when I’m being too hard on myself and when I’m owning my mistakes. At this point, I’m so pissed off at myself for cheating, lying, and decieving everybody, our families, friends, and work colleagues, I’m not probably able to judge whether somebody else is being to hard on themselves. Please don’t take my comment the wrong way. It is coming from where I am and how angry I am with myself for lying and cheating on everybody. If I sounded to harsh in my comments, it is because I’m being harsh with me.
Runner,
You so know the answer to this question: Attention!!!! It’s all about the ego.!
It’s not that they care about you, it’s about the benefit they may receive from the connection.
Ignore!
I know, I know, and I am ignoring. The guy was such a major AC and I’m totally over it so I’m not the least bit tempted. I can’t believe that as recently as Thanksgiving, I thought I had to be “friends” with this ex AC (as well as all the rest). Thank you Natalie and everyone on this site. I’ve cut every former AC out of my life, including the ones I work with. I walk past them in the hall without making eye contact and not saying a word.
Watching these past AC’s show back up for stroking is helping me maintain NC with the most recent ex. I look back at my past situations (not even casual relationships) and can’t believe I found any of them the least bit interesting. Sheesh, what was I thinking? I know that within time, I’ll look back at the last two years with this ex and be glad I escaped, AGAIN!
Why don’t married men who choose their wives call their wives to get their things stroked?
Runner,
“Why don’t married men who choose their wives call their wives to get their things stroked?”
They like the variety and attention.
wow, another post seemingly written just for me. This is exactly the type of relationship I recently found myself trying to to scrape myself out of. Thank god for your blog because reading this I realize I was not crazy…because I sure felt like it a few months in when I had to confront the issue. Keep up the good work.
this is interesting I am adhering to the NC RULE with an ex who came in and out of my life for the last few year wouldnt listen to what I wanted eg casual wouldnt comment just ignored and kept “expecting” me to meet him which in the past I did. Now I am stronger an will not meet but am finding it difficult to understand as other relationships just ended this one went on so long just as you describe, the benefits without the relationship even though we had lived together previously he was desperate to see me but wasnt “coming back” went on years jumped through hoops I hate to admit but now have no interest in the AC and have moved on though I doubt he has and know his pattern of trying to get me to meet him this is the part I will never “get” what for why? Sex, company the benefits of what he had before with no commitment this site is fantastic and helps me every day. I know he will contact me again but something has shifted its not an attractive package anymore the crumbs I mean!
I highly recommend the book “Why Men Love Bitches.” Very good read and is a must have if you are a single woman, trying to navigate through the treacherous waters of dating.
I have only been in long term relationships my entire life. I’ve been seeing someone now for nearly two months, and this article really struck a nerve with me. This guy was married for 18 years and apparently has been divorced for two. I don’t know how much he’s dated since the divorce, whereupon he found her in the arms of another man. While I’m sure this is extremely difficult to get over, I’m not sure he actually is over it and ready to fully give himself to anyone, including me. I, on the other hand, have been single now for two and a half years, when I dumped the lousy jerk who cheated on me with not just one but at least two other women, all while professing his undying love for me. We were supposed to get married, the whole nine yards. I’ve been single all this time and feel I’m finally ready to jump in and give my all to a man again.
The man I’ve been dating for the past couple months is sweet, kind, seems caring, appears to be into his kids and is a good father (from what he tells me), works hard (again, from what he’s telling me), and doesn’t appear to be a player. However, every time we spend more than an evening together he seems to go sort of M.I.A. for a few days after the date. A few weeks ago, we’d spent some time together on a weekend and when he left my house and said “I’ll call you later on” I didn’t realize that meant four days later. That was pretty much it for me and I was done but somehow, decided to give him another shot. Now, he spent most of this past weekend with me and left Sunday night telling me the same thing. This time I heard from him two days later. I have a really hard time with giving my body, mind and soul to a man all weekend long, cooking him breakfast, etc., only to be ignored for days on end afterward. So, this guy is probably going to get the boot unless he can shape up. I think this is who he is and that even if I tell him this is not acceptable and that I won’t tolerate it, he’ll probably stop doing it for awhile just to appease me. However, I want him to WANT to call me all on his own, not because I had to tell him to do so.
I have no problem being alone and can and will be alone for the rest of my life if he or any other guy can’t figure out how to treat a woman. I value myself and I think I have a great deal to offer someone. If you’re too stupid to figure it out, you will clearly get the gate. That is why I’m still single. I would rather BE alone, than to wish I WERE alone. So, let’s see how he takes it when I tell him this stuff is not going to fly with me.
Anyway, we all have to realize that we are beautiful, wonderful beings and we are worthy of a higher standard than some of us are willing to hold these men upto. I have too much self respect to be treated as if I were disposable!!!!
This is deep. Gonna have to re-read it. Wow.
Oh boy! This has just told me exactly what the answer was to my question of 5 months now (“but if all he wanted was sex, why pursue me so much, why make so much effort when he was with me, why say all those things to me, why why why???!”)
“Doing all this other stuff makes their actions and intentions palatable. Just shagging around might say something else about them.”
BINGO Natalie! If there was one thing my ex could not handle, it was thinking of himself as anything other than Mr Perfect. And I am pretty certain now that a major reason why I have heard nothing from him in 5 months is that he now realises I know the truth about him and doesn`t want to have to either deal with it from me, or face it himself. Now when he can surround himself with fresh meat who are clueless as to who he really is. Good riddance.
WHOA again. This is simple yet complex. Wow.
It’s so easy to get caught up and caught out there. Gotta be extremely careful.
WOW.
My ex from a year ago was the reverse of this. He wanted to have a relationship, but by being alone, he was able to avoid feeling and dealing with things. When he was in a relationship, he had to feel and deal and he didn’t like that part!
As for sex? That went out the window! And not my fault!
Wow, this spoke volumes to me…I have been reading these posts (out of sequence as I just happened to stumble upon this page) for the last couple months and they’ve all been very helpful. However this one struck a cord because it really answered questions I’ve been having on the “breakup” of my casual relationship. I truly thought it was more but my “ex” was fresh out of a relationship when he started with me, blew hot and cold by telling me how I was a “good” woman, how great and awesome I was, how he wanted me mentally and emotionally as well as physically, seeing me damn near every day one minute then telling me he was unsure, that he didn’t want me to be a rebound girl the next. He even future faked saying that we’d go places and travel together. He swore he wasn’t seeing anyone else so we were exclusive by default, yet six months in when he really starting blowing cold, calling and making plans with me less and less I confronted him about the status of things. That’s when he said he “liked” me but things couldn’t be long term. I was crushed and couldn’t understand what went wrong but we said we’d be “friends”. A few weeks later I see pics on Facebook of him with another girl and from the looks of it they were kinda serious. When I asked him about it of course he downplayed it all and promised he didn’t start seeing her until things ended with me. Total lie. Then he says she doesn’t approve of him hanging around exs so we can’t ever see or hang out with each other but we can still communicate by text. I said no thanks to that and haven’t spoken with him at all now for over a month. I’ve still been trying understand why things happened the way they did but this post pretty much answers it. He was emotionally unavailable, only wanting a casual relationship to get him over the hump from his previous relationship! I was inded a Fallback Girl!
Thank you for sharing this was EXACTLY my last situation, reading it in print has validated that I’m not crazy…
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