Invariably when we find ourselves in a situation where we won’t let go of a poor relationship, there’s a bit of illusion holding going on. We’re either wanting him to be the man we thought he was or trying to get him to be the man we thought he could be, if only a number of factors happened to help it along. Part of the reason why so much time can pass is because in order for us to dig our heels in, we end up distancing ourselves from the reality of the relationship and him, and even our own behaviour, and we put our own spin on it, projecting the cosier illusion of things and essentially living in denial.
The trouble is this:
It’s very easy to say that you love someone and that you’re trying your best to make things work when you’ve chosen to be with someone who you know isn’t capable of reciprocating.
It’s very easy to avoid making real change, making decisions, and examining what part you are playing in the relationship when you avoid the reality by holding on to the illusion of him which also creates a false, illusionary relationship based on non existent foundations.
How can you even start to work on issues if you’re not in the real world?
How can you know whether what you’re in is good or bad when you won’t get real and you make up whatever you want,to fill the gap?
If you’re projecting or stuck in the past, how can you have or get perspective?
When you live in fear and choose men that reflect the negative things you believe about yourself, love, and relationships, which then creates self-fulfilling prophecies that let you keep your pattern and cater to your fears, you’ll find yourself in relationships that whilst drama filled and taxing at the best of times, they allow you to not have to fully engage yourself.
You know how these relationships will play out because you tend to choose same guy, different package.
You could be trying to forge a relationship with the type of man you profess to want but instead you try to fit a square peg in a round hole and suffer with Betting on Potential and I Can Change Him syndrome.
You could let go instead of waiting for him to be the one to finalise things, but instead you stay and end up suffering.
You could be emotionally engaging with someone who actually wants to engage on a habitual basis, not just when he’s in need of a shag, an ego stroke, or a shoulder to lean on.
But instead…you opt to engage with someone who is an emotional flip flapper, sometimes or even often, lacking in empathy, or is even just emotionally vacant. It’s a bit like trying to get water out of a dry well – you keep sending the bucket down into black hole of emotion hoping for some drops to be in the bucket, but it keeps coming back dry. So you send the bucket down again….
I’ve asked before why do we keep choosing poor relationships even though it hurts?
Well aside from relationship insanity which has us choosing the same experience again and again but expecting a different result this time, there’s an element of emotional laziness.
You may feel like you’re expending a whole lot of emotion but considering that you often know what you’re going to get back, making it a waste of your energy, you are being emotionally lazy because rather than look a little closer to home, address your own issues, adapt and start choosing better partners, you take the ‘easier’ route of following the pattern that you know, which yields the same experiences, which causes you more pain and drama.
But this pain and drama that you experience is not as bad as the fear that you have of putting yourself out there with real opportunities.
When you don’t believe in yourself and have internalised many of your relationship experiences to end up believing that you’re ‘not good enough’ and unworthy, you become afraid of being with someone halfway decent in the fear that they will see the things that you see, or even find more flaws.
So, you choose someone like Mr Unavailables and assclowns who keep you in your emotional comfort zone – emotional laziness.
Don’t get me wrong – it’s uncomfortable with these men but it’s a familiar uncomfortable and it’s not as uncomfortable as stepping outside of this comfort zone would be and treading into an unknown.
The drama, ambiguity, confusion, outrage, disappointment, highs, lows, ‘fireworks’, ‘passion’, pain, lies, deceit and the whole kit and kaboodle are familiar. The fact that you’ve had poor experiences but haven’t strayed too far from your ideas about compatibility, type, and ‘common’ interests suggests that even though you aren’t happy, the fear of getting real is still bigger than anything else you’ve experienced.
You can attach whatever meaning you want to his behaviour and your relationship, and even your own behaviour, but it doesn’t change the fact that you’re struggling to let go of a relationship that doesn’t actually exist.
Your relationship and your perception of him is not rooted in reality so you’re not truly risking yourself.
I know from own personal experience and those of many women I have corresponded with and the comments on this site that it is very easy to say you want a different experience and it’s very easy to focus on him, but it’s not so easy to actually opt for the different experience and focus on ourselves.
But you have to, because if you don’t, years will go by like sand through your fingers and you will suddenly start getting jolts that force you to look at the reality. Better for it to be sooner rather than later so you can start living your life now, and engaging with people who will actually engage back and reciprocate rather than have you jumping through constantly shifting hoops to ‘win’ them.
Get active on you and discourage yourself from choosing what appears to be the easier yet painful option that always yields the same results.
Your thoughts? Do you think you’re emotionally lazy?
Add to favorites
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES brilliant post. BRILLIANT.
It’s possibly quite an affront to be accused of emotional laziness when you’re the one who is so giving but … yeah. We are as a rule.
I had someone tell me that I carry my hurts like some sort of leperous comfort blanket which was an eye opener. Ewww … who wants comfort from something so gravely DISGUSTING?
Food for thought. Isn’t it much better to burn the wreched thing and get a nice clean new one which we like and which protects us?
Thanks for this Natalie.
Yes.
Yes, I have been emotionally lazy. It’s interesting though…on this website, I kept hearing that we need to focus on ourselves, and I kept thinking that we needed to focus on ourselves in a positive way – like, love ourselves, focus on our lives, get hobbies, friends, become this fit-for-tv feminine product commercial or something. Happy, happy, love, love – but still no substance. And I just wasn’t gettin HOW to do that. Lazy! We hear what we want to hear, and we keep subscribing to these illusions – whether they’re about him or about us. But now I realize that focussing on ourselves is the more difficult thing to do. It means FIRST, looking at our issues and our actual lives, and grieving things in our past and present (including ALL of our crutches – including HIM), and then finally finding the strength to stand on our own feet and THEN building a life of self-love, esteem, and happiness. You can’t just JUMP to the love, esteem and happiness part no matter how we may want to! Like you just can’t JUMP to a happy, healthy relationship with an intrinsically flawed AC.
Thanks for this post. I think it is fantastic!
Thanks Natalie,
I used to be emotionally lazy… afraid to move away from what I was familiar with and just like you said YEARS flew by wasted on uworthy men. It wasn’t until I dealt with my own hurts and pains and scars and learn to start truly loving myself and setting real boundaries and sticking to them did I realize how much of me was wasting away. I had to stop it because I was tired of being miserable and I had to do the work to change. I’ve seen so many women in my family, my own mother in fact, stay in emotionally empty relationships all their lives and then they are 60 years old and feel trapped, old, used up, drained, betrayed and alone b/c they spent there whole lives with men who never gave them the love, attention and security they so much wanted. But they stayed b/c that is how they were raised or they had kids or they didn’t work or they hoped he would do better soon, right after the umpteenth argument about the same thing,or some other excuse to not really make a move and decide to be happy. So sad, because these are some fierce women in every other aspect of their lives. Strong and bright yet with men they loose there way.
That’s why I love this site so much. I’ve learned so much from these women and from NML and the women on this site. I really love you all. You help to keep me focused and I thank you! Life is work and the first step starts with you…it’s hard but the rewards are amazing and we are all worth it, aren’t we?
“But now I realize that focussing on ourselves is the more difficult thing to do. It means FIRST, looking at our issues and our actual lives, and grieving things in our past and present (including ALL of our crutches – including HIM), and then finally finding the strength to stand on our own feet and THEN building a life of self-love, esteem, and happiness. You can’t just JUMP to the love, esteem and happiness part no matter how we may want to! Like you just can’t JUMP to a happy, healthy relationship with an intrinsically flawed AC.”
That is true,I know I should love and focus on myself but Im still strugling on how to do it.The temptation of jumping on another relationship to ease the discomfort of being alone( I guess you can call it the emotional laziness that NML talked about) is very big.Is hard for me to focus on myself and be alone.I have that believe that a relationship is the key to happiness and I have been after one for so long that now I just dont know how to be diferent.My life is a mess now,I have no idea what I want to do as a career,I dont have hobbies,I dont meet with my friends often.I know I should be concetrating on figuring that out but all I can think about is relationships.Why it is so hard to love and focus on ourselves?
Sorry to post again. I just wanted to share that the negative things I believe about myself are that I don’t deserve and I’m not allowed to want anything for myself – that kind of want is incrediby ugly and shameful – and if I do show my wants and wishes they will be specifically denied on principle. I think somewhere, down the way – well, I know where, but that’s beside the point – I got the message that wants, for myself were unforgivably self-centered and arrogant. I’ve also believed that I’m not allowed to be angry with people I profess to care about, and instead I have to make them feel comfortable and good about themselves at all costs (to myself).
I put this out there as an example to you ladies of what you might be wrestling with, deep down, as well – cuz I could have used it in the beginning – although, it is something you can only find yourself. Do some digging. Get in there. Get angry at your parents 🙂 Realize they’re wrong. And then get on.
@ Anusha
“My life is a mess now,I have no idea what I want to do as a career,I dont have hobbies,I dont meet with my friends often.I know I should be concetrating on figuring that out but all I can think about is relationships.Why it is so hard to love and focus on ourselves?”
Chicken and egg. GET a hobby – or do the thing which was quoted here many times by Brad, get some plants and look after them. That’s a relationship too and you know what? My plants can’t talk to me but they protect me. It’s true! People can’t see in my windows so much because of their leafy screen. They also give out oxygen in return for the poison I pump out of my lungs with every breath. When I walk past my home, the colours of the plant pots and the cheerful green life I see makes me feel welcomed home.
These are things that you need to focus on – career, things to do with your time, those friends … these are way more important than chasing after guys. Seriously. Go to the gym or if money is tight get a workout DVD and make that your hobby… the exercise will help, it’s a proven fact!
PJ — I was raised in that house too. Hearing my therapist say that she felt incredibly sad for the little girl who had to grow up there as a non-person, never having her needs, desires, hopes, dreams acknowledged much less met — that was a shocker. I’d made a lot of progress over the past several years … then I got distracted by an assclown who was basically a life-support system for a big dick & little else. I went right back to the old patterns with the same predictable result; now I have to start again, but hopefully the rebuilding won’t take as long this time around.
@Anusha – “to ease the discomfort of being alone.”
Anusha, I would start there. What is uncomfortable about being alone? Why is it uncomfortable for you? Does it scare you? Why? What is it about a relationship that you believe would ease that? What do you NEED? What are you crying out for? Learn what your needs are. And know that you cannot get it purely from an outside source. It has never worked for you in the past – getting these needs met from a relationship – or you wouldn’t be here, and you wouldn’t be struggling right now.
@Skyscraper – I’m sorry too Skyscraper, for us 🙂 But glad we’re not in that house anymore. My eum was basically my step-mother, and I’m grateful he reminded me of things I need to work through. It’s been a loooong time since I thought of her.
Yes NML, it’s so true, some of us are so stuck in our comfort zone that anything different is just too scary to try.
I’m 52 now and have followed the same pattern since I was 15, have only recently started to really understand why though I could see the pattern and had a good idea where it had come from.
Anusha you are afraid of being alone so you jump into relationships,I am the opposite, so afraid of being hurt that I prefer to stay alone or have part time non real relationships – both approaches stem from a same lack of confidence in ourselves.
I guess the message is still the same, learn to value ourselves, learn to hold back from the thrill of what is the ‘fix’ for our own negative fears, learn to be still within ourselves. It’s not easy, I’m fed up with being so independent, I knew no different so learning to trust and share with the right people is a struggle, the opposite is looking to others to validate you. Neither approach has worked for us.
It’s just that sticking our toe in the water feels like sticking our heads above the parapet – just too frightening, how on earth do we overcome this? I’m really stuck on this one.
Butterfly-“These are things that you need to focus on – career, things to do with your time, those friends … these are way more important than chasing after guys.”
I realy like that line and I might keep it in mind.I dont know how it started but I just have this idea that relationships are the most important thing.I just couldnt take personal happiness from anything like work,friends and so on.Dont get me wrong I like those things and Im gratefull to have them on my life but is like while they add lets say 10% for my happiness meter,relationships add 70% or so.Yeah I know there is something wrong with me thinking that way.Relationships shouldnt be all that important.And I agree that I realy need to get busy,thanks for the sugestions.
PlanetJane-I dont realy know what my needs are.I know that might sound strange but is true.I guess I have been so disconected from myself and living my life how other people wanted that now I just dont know how to fulfill myself.About being alone,I just realy dont like it.I know I can make it on my own that I dont realy need somebody to suport me but I dont want to be alone.I want a family,a husband,getting married,having kids.And I thought that by now I would be getting married or at least engaged but the fact I not even have a bf yet scares me.Makes me afraid to not be able to find somebody.
sadthing-I think Im geting to the point that you are too.I catch myself avoiding people sometimes to not end up being hurt.For example when I notice that Im geting interest for a guy I usualy just walk away now.I want a relationship very much but I just dont want to get hurt anymore.Is contradictory the same time I want it I protect myself from that.So I end up behaving in a contractory way,geting close and then pushing away.
“But you have to, because if you don’t, years will go by like sand through your fingers and you will suddenly start getting jolts that force you to look at the reality. Better for it to be sooner rather than later so you can start living your life now, and engaging with people who will actually engage back and reciprocate rather than have you jumping through constantly shifting hoops to ‘win’ them.â€
Does this ring true. After giving my heart to a man who chased me at work for more than two years (while keeping a long distance relationship from me) and finally getting me to date him and spend time with him, of course, i fell for him because I worked all the time and I thought we were exclusive. Later, I found out he was flirting with other women! In one instance, one woman he worked very closely told me that he never went out anywhere, he always stayed home. Anywhere? We had been all over the city, the mountains, lakes, and explored underground caves! He was keeping our relationship a secret from other women!
I stuck by him because he said he loved me but could not be in a relationship, if only the timing was different. He said i was the perfect woman for him, he said, he had issues due to his his ex gf. Until about four months ago, he dumped me, his reason was “He was confusedâ€. I did No contact until he showed up at my doorstep weeks later begging me back.
During that period of time which I simply could not trust him. I was so angry at him. I was only happy when ignored my instincts and blissfully and blindly loved him and allowing time to pass, eroding at my self esteem.
A few weeks ago I said he needed to build back my trust in him, He got mad. As a result, he dumped me again! BY E-MAIL!!
Since then, its been no contact. I have him totally blocked from IM, phone, doorman, texts – everything!
That was been the last two years of my life mind you. All of this because i thought he was having issues and because I thought it would all work out in the end. Anyone who loves you or who plans on building a relationship with you or building your trust, should treat you that way.
So ladies – yes don’t waste your time!!! I lost more than two years!
Comments?
@ Rose – so flip-floppy i thought it was my ex- is he from Texas lol we women are always so patient and understanding…two years down the drain;( what reason did he give in his email?? how old is he? he sounds so confused!!! or could there be another woman that caused him to be “confused”???
@Rose,
It will be two years for me in September. With slight paraphrasing, he had said all the same things to me at one point or another that you quoted. He was confused, the timing was wrong. Yet we had been “separated at birth”, we “fit”, had been “made for each other”.
What a crock. I don’t know why I had listened to any of it, especially since I never asked for a relationship or ever really anything at all so I don’t know why he’d felt compelled to feed me all this stuff in the first place.
But I loved him so much. We had always said that being each other’s best friend came first, and it’s almost like it became some kind of an honor code I would stick to; when he was hurting, even if he had hurt me in the process, too, I would feel that not comforting him amounted to a dereliction of duty. Every time I tried to get away from this mess, he’d reel me back in with what I now see as guilt trips. He “needed his best friend”. He “understood” why I would try to end the relationship, but he “couldn’t bear the thought” of losing me as a friend.
I thought it would work out in the end just as you did, because how could something so special fizzle out, right? If I were to be brutally honest with myself, I’d say that some part of me still keeps that hope. But you know what? I can’t afford to wait. Every day more sand slips through our fingers, and it is time we will never get back. Maybe the connection had been unique, but even so what’s the good of it if you can’t be with that person?
I don’t understand how I got here. I’ve always liked being alone. All my friends put up with my disappearing periodically for a few days to finish a project in my studio or just spend a weekend up in the mountains with only my dog. I have never been a needy person and there’ never been a dearth of men anyway, either romantically or s friends. Yet for two years I have thought about little but this one person. Well, being 39 is not necessarily a phase in life I would have picked to start over, but I suppose 41 or 43 will sit even less well with with me, and this thing isn’t going anywhere.
There may have been a point to my string of rambling originally, but now I have no idea what it was. Rose – I hear you. New leaf, right?
@Brad – you are right and I’m going to hang on to my naivete. It didn’t serve me well this time and maybe it got a little dinged up, but I think I’ll just put a new bumper on it and keep on trucking.
Thank you all just for being here. Sometimes it’s scary to come home to all these heavy thoughts and it’s nice to know now that I can log in and find myself in some very fine company. 🙂
@Aega and Rose
I never cease to be amazed at how similar these guys are. If we are emotionally lazy (which I may just be), they are emotional slobs!!!
I had the same – confusion, wrong timing, “understood” if I wanted to leave, wants to be friends forever, never wants to lose me, had a “gut feeling” that we were meant to be together. And all this from a MM!!!
And you asked how something so special can just fizzle out, but I think the answer to that is becoming clear. If we are involved with married men, it’s impossible to have a relationship based on anything real. I will never forget NML’s point that we know 2 things about MM – they can cheat, and they can lie. I could never trust my ex for those reasons. No matter how much he actually said to me “trust is important in a relationship”!!! And how emotionally lazy are the MM being if they don’t end a relationship with their wives before starting a new one?
So the way it went for me was, I just kept wanting more and more of him – more time with him, more feelings from him, more communication with him – like I needed more and more of a drug I was building up a tolerance to. And because of our situation, there’s no way that level of intensity and closeness could have happened. And that was soooooo frustrating to me!!!
NML’s point really makes sense here with MM: “it’s very easy to say that you love someone and that you’re trying your best to make things work when you’ve chosen to be with someone who you know isn’t capable of reciprocating.”
I like your line Aega: “What a crock. I don’t know why I had listened to any of it”. I am going to try to see all these things he said as a “crock” even if my heart so wants to believe he was being sincere. There’s an oxymoron – a sincere AC!!!
I hope you did think of your husband a few times in the last 2 years, Aega, and not just the EUM/MM.
I am going to make it a goal to become less “emotionally lazy” myself. it’s time to face my fears, my issues, myself – and take some risks. Thanks for that reminder NML.
@all these posts above.
These made me laugh, all of them. Not at YOU, of them.
Now I know why NML calls them assclowns because before that didn’t properly resonate but … they’re FUNNY. They actually are funny. It’s unintentionaln humour, it’s cruel but …
Mine could have said all these things too!!!!
Yanno, usually the first thing I have done for weeks is log on here, today it wasn’t, I checked for other things. I see this as a good sign, wanting to check in with you ladies to see how you are doing but it is out of concern and love (cos yeah I am feeling close to a lot of the women here) not NEED. It’s a very nice feeling.
Assclowns. LOLOLOLOLOL.
@Aega You have to accept your own emotional unavailability. End of. In some ways you sound very much like me – I also would disappear into something and need solitude. I’m trying really hard to work past that.
No, I am not emotionally lazy, but I am obsessed with getting things right and making puzzle pieces fit. And, the thing with the truly EUMs, the pieces will never fit.
And, because I was obsessed with getting things “correct” as in getting things to make sense, I then ended up getting obsessed with him and his behaviors. Trying to figure those out.
I knew better. I firmly believe in choice rather than, “it just happened.”
So, I think I am the opposite of lazy, when it comes to emotions. I have a high sense of emotional integrity, and assumed that someone who told me he loved me and wanted to be with me was telling the truth. Naive. Naive. Naive.
@Angelina
Hon this is why I said it seems like an affront to say emotionally lazy but I still agree with NML. It is far easier to stay in a pattern of perfectionism and obsessing than it is to RID yourself of these things. Hugs.
I was wondering how things would be if I had just done something the first 3 years of my relationship when my ex used to treat me like crap.I usualy didnt say anything because I was afraid of his reaction,everytime I confronted him for his behaviour he just would get mad and withdraw.I guess the fact that I wouldnt say anything was like a green light for him to keep doing it right? Like a sign that I would be the perfect fallback girl.Other thing I want to ask is,is wrong to complain when you arent being mistreated but is treated with indiference? Like I said before he stoped treating me bad after 3 years but started acting like if he didnt care much(wouldnt mind if we had to stay a week or more without talking,didnt seem bothered when our dates have to be canceled,wouldnt be romatic,wouldnt call me often and so on).He seemed to not agree with my complains,like he probably thought to himself “I stoped treating her bad so why she is complaning now?”.But I wanted to fell loved,important,cherished.I wanted to fell like one of the most important things to him(like I think people in love usualy fell) and not something he went to when he had nothing better to do.Do I have a wrong idea about love? Or is normal to want those things from a relationship?
@Anusha
“I usualy didnt say anything because I was afraid of his reaction,” – I think this may be considered a boundary issue for you. And yes, it makes sense that if you didn’t assert those boundaries, he would have no reason to change his behaviours.
If you are being treated with indifference, your needs to feel loved are not being met, so IMHO, that would be something to discuss too, yes. People in a loving relationship do not feel indifferent about each other – that is why we are trying to get to that indifference feeling with our exes – so they can’t hurt us any more, so they can’t affect us emotionally any more. To me, indifference is not compatible with love.
It sounds like you agree – and yes, I think it is normal to want to feel
“loved,important,cherished.I wanted to fell like one of the most important things to him” as you mentioned.
@everyone
I have finally acted on my idea of getting myself into therapy. I called the confidential counselling services for my workplace, and I should have my first appointment within the next 2 weeks. I was nervous making the call (I am still shaking), but the person was very understanding and helpful. I am tired of being “emotionally lazy” and sticking to these old, familiar but uncomfortable patterns. I also feel I will need some extra support as I have to see my ex in a couple of days (just typing that made my heart pound so hard!), and I will have to see him every day for 5 days while trying to return to NC after breaking it. I know I will be more than ready to see a counsellor after that!!!
Love to all,
Meant xo
I think i’d call myself Emotionally Frozen – not lazy. I pick a guy – usually a sad-sack or jerk – and then put all of my emotion on him. Our relationship becomes my world.
My ex EUM just (as in minutes ago) hit me up to have sex with “no strings”. For the first time ever, I told him, No. He then tried to guilt me and when that didnt work, said he was “sorry the whole relationship thing didnt work out” and that he had “led me on.”
Once again I let my heart take a beating just by having a conversation with him. Without a doubt, NC is the only way to heal from this. I just wish he would stay away from me. 🙁
@annied
That is the first honest communication you’ve had from him by the sound of it. They do know, when they have trod the path before, when a woman really has decided that they are not going to play ball. By saying “sorry the whole relationship didn’t work out and I lead you on” he is ADMITTING he knows he is a jerk.
It hurts but … have you told him to stay away from you? Actually in those words “I wish to have nothing at all to do with you”.
@Meant WOO you go girl! Wishing you luck and power – will drop you a line later on when I am chilled out from my day.
I cannot tell you all how informative and helpful this site has been. Reading NML’s great posts and the inspiring, intelligent, honest and real responses from you all has made me feel part of a community of very emotionally responsible people. Thank you NML and everybody. I do think responsibility is key. I think being responsible for your actions and reactions, emotional or otherwise is incredibly important in any relationship, but particularly in romantic ones. Emotional laziness comes into this of course. I have always prided myself on being a very emotionally intelligent person – I pick apart people, I pick apart myself to see how I work, what I feel, why I feel etc. But this, while interesting, is not real emotional engagement. I am shocked that I have been so blind to this. I have been a character in the story of my own life, entertaining others, looking for the next chapter. But I am real. I cannot write the parts of the other people in the story. They are real. They play their own parts. I cannot assume if I am emotionally responsible, that they will be. In fact, I should assume the opposite. The majority of people are emotionally irresponsible and they obviously WON’T tell you that directly. They tell you INDIRECTLY though. I have been deaf to these clues, so busy relishing the drama and rollercoaster of highs and lows, I fail to hear the usual litany of “you’re pretty, you’re fun BUT…I’m happy seeing you twice a week, I don’t know how to do relationships, I’m afraid of being a batchelor forever, I have more mistakes to make…” YADDA YADDA YADDA. What rot. Seriously. I have assumed in the past that the men that have pursued me, taken me out, wined me, dined me, been kind to me etc have actually LIKED me. That is not true. They like how I make them feel. I am fun. They use me and often not for sex, but for company. They are emotional vampires feeding off my seeming openness. I have noticed that as a result of being a “fun” person who gets on easily with lots of people, men are interested but only in the fun. They see me as being a casual, sometimes girl BECAUSE I am fun. In a few “relationships” I haven’t noticed this for a little while as I’ve been too busy living my life, working, hanging with friends…then I ask them for something, to go to something or just text them first (YES, texting is the WORST!) and bizarrely the whole dynamic of the relationship changes, no matter how “cool” I have been/am. Well, screw that. And screw them. I had a particularly brilliant and hilarious epiphany moment (NML speaks of epiphany relationships in other posts) with one AC (the Daddy of them all!) After messing around with him for a year or so (I was eu, he was eu…a match made in pergatory) and with both of us seeing other people (it’s a long story, we we never going out…we’d just bump into each other frequently) I had a 5 month “relationship” with a complete AC, found this site, ended it and breathed a sigh of relief. Then I bumped into Daddy AC again. It’s a long and not particularly interesting story but one evening at his house I MADE myself talk about “us” and what he was playing at with me. I had assumed because he was artistic, a father, a business owner, older than me etc etc blah blah that he was emotionally responsible. DUH! He was hopeless. He couldn’t articulate his feelings. He just laughed at what I said, made light of it, shifted uncomfortably, squirmed, made jokes…a 37 year old man. Wasn’t this supposed to be FUN?? Wasn’t it supposed to develop NATURALLY? I couldn’t believe it. Then, as if to really hammer it all home he said, “Well, that’s alot to take in. I need to think about it all” which is, and I kid you not, the exact same words used by 5 month AC when I resonably, gently, non-threateningly and softly told him of my concerns. That broke the spell for me. Reality bites, but it’s a good hurt. At least it means something, at least it can heal and you can look at your scar and smile, knowing that it won’t be split again. I don’t know if what I’ve said makes sense. I think I just wanted to articulate it and to tell people who would really understand. It’s so simple. Be yourself. If someone likes you REALLY they will be there for you. It’s what I deserve. It’s what we all deserve. I think you are all wonderful, strong and beautiful women. I salute you! xxx
@Tricky,
You raised many good points! I also engage in “analyzing†emotions, but not so much in allowing myself to fully engage – I like the distinction between those 2 that you made. I can also relate to some of the problems of being thought of as a ‘fun’ person. My ex told me I am “beautiful†and “fun†but when I asked him what actual personal qualities he appreciated about me, he couldn’t come up with anything except that I was caring and patient (?doormat) and asked me for more time to answer that question. So, I gave him time and space, and tried to let the “relationship†unfold naturally. I gave him *seven months* before I asked him again what he valued about me/our “friendship†besides physical aspects, and he STILL couldn’t answer!!! How long do these men need to think??? He insists that he has just never been able to express his feelings, except in a physical way. It was exhausting to try to carry the emotional part of the relationship for both of us. (although, in hindsight, I was probably just projecting – he did say he had “strong feelings†for me, but it only ever felt like lust, or possibly appreciating that I was a sounding board for him).
You are so right – “They are emotional vampires feeding off my seeming openness.†– and “a match made in purgatory†– I am soo appreciating your descriptions!
“Reality bites, but it’s a good hurt. At least it means something, at least it can heal and you can look at your scar and smile, knowing that it won’t be split again.†– this is making *so* much sense Tricky! I am just hoping in my case, that I am emotionally intelligent enough NOT to let the wound be opened again (I just broke NC with my ex 2 days ago 🙁 )
You seem “wonderful, strong and beautiful†too – thanks for sharing your story and thoughts. I hope you are free of your AC’s now, and are well on your way to healing.
@Butterfly – looking forward to your reply later on – happy “chilling” 🙂
“My ex told me I am “beautiful†and “fun†but when I asked him what actual personal qualities he appreciated about me, he couldn’t come up with anything”
Wow is amazing how much I can relate to that.When I asked my ex what he liked about me he would say some parts of my body but then I would say that I wanted to know what he liked on my personality,he couldnt answer too.And after a while he came up with “I like how you were with me when we first meet,nobody have been that nice with me” (HUGE RED FLAG!!!!! That just showed that was about him never about me.He was interested on me because I was a ego boost to him but by then I havent found this site yet so I couldnt reconize it).I think is realy funy how our EUMs do and say the same.
@@Who said this? I can’t find it now 🙂 Sorry – “I have a high sense of emotional integrity…Naive. Naive. Naive.”
I am so feeling this way right now! Or, I’m becoming more aware of it because of this site…which is such a good thing. I think when you have that emotional integrity, and ASSUME that others do as well, or are somehow magically equipped with the same values as you – even though nearly everything they do and say should be telling you otherwise – you do end up becoming a sort of accidental “victim”. It is when you are aware that you have/want emotional integrity, and others may not, that you can truly see others as they are…accept them as they are, but not have to be in relationships with them. It also helps, I think, to not be coming from a place of need and desperation – wanting so much for everyone to fit the image of what you “need” and how you think things should be.
Last night, I was sort of sneakily “set-up” to spend some time with a friend of a friend of a friend. He’s an ok guy. We’ve met before. I’m not attracted to him, don’t particularly like him, but this morning I thought, “Maybe because I’m not attracted to him, and see him as just a regular guy, I should give him a chance – maybe it’s an indication he’s not eu.” And I started looking over what I know about him – which isn’t much actually, but enough! And here are the clenchers:
1) He’s sleeping with and “dating” (hardly) a girl I know – she likes him a lot, but doesn’t know where the relationship is going and is afraid to ask. I found out last night that he’s “just not that into her,” but it’s “something to do”, and he thinks I’m “cute.”
2) He has a (rather long) list on his cell phone of all the women he’s slept with, complete with codes indicating what they did together.
For a brief moment, I thought, “Aw, you shouldn’t judge the guy, we all do what we have to, we’re all human, give him a chance.” I feel lately, as I’m learning so much, that I’m being too judgemental for my friends and aquaintances. I feel like an outsider really. But then I thought, “WHY give him a chance?” I don’t need this guy! And I certainly don’t want to end up on that list. Ew. Buh bye.
And I JUST REMEMBERED, when my xeum – the one I’m lamenting on these pages – heard about this guy (from last night) and his list and his “way with the ladies”, he immediately wanted to meet him – said he was his hero. These guys are in their 30s-40s. There’s a LOL for you Butterfly. Pathetic.
I’ve realized recently that I don’t want a relationship right now. I split up with my guy of 8 years, and I really just wanted to take some time to myself. I enjoy good alone time, good ME time – always have. But instead, life put the xeum/ac in my path just days after moving into my own apt. And he pushed his way through my door and into my life. And I went along with it because I was scared and ended up thinking I could handle something casual because, well, I hadn’t wanted anything more. But ohhh did it turn into something more. That was my laziness. I was afraid, or even just nervous to face being alone – really on my own, and so I settled for xeum/ac – which in the long run has been far more miserable than “alone” ever threatened to be. “Alone” is turning out to be far better.
OMG, I’m reading this and I just want to run away from myself because I’ve been hanging on to the illusion that my best friend and I will end up together although he is in a long-distance relationship. We’ve known each other for 16 years and he has always been in love with me. We began sleeping together last December and although I’ve made much noise about not wanting to be the other woman, here I am 8 months later, still sleeping with him, still travelling miles to see him, still returning all of his phone calls. He says that the relationship he has is not one he wants to continue in for the long term, but according to him, there are a lot of things that make it difficult to abruptly end it with her (by the way, she has given him permission to sleep with other women as long he does not make them into his “other girlfriend”). The other day, he and I got into an argument because she was visiting him at his house, and after we hung up, she asked him about the conversation. He confessed that he and I had been intimate. He has told me that she has always been insecure about me, because once when she asked him how come he never says that he loves her, he said that he has only ever loved one girl and that is me (he to me this several months before he even knew I has developed feelings for him).
Long story short, they are still together after the revelation yet he is still professing love for me. He does all the things that a boyfriend does, and he is emotionally available to me whenever I visit or whenever we talk. We talk about many things including work, family, future goals, and even our “relationship”. He has admitted that he is afraid that he will hurt me because he is not sure that he can be monogamous, which is what I told him I require from a relationship. He has told me that he will respect my desire to not sleep with him until everything is sorted out, but he has also made it clear that he still wants us to be together. I believe (at least I want to) that he is genuine in his feelings because he has no reason to hang on to me since he has already gotten sex.
I have asked him endlessly why he can’t just be with me and he has said that he does not want to leave one woman for another. Once when I said that he was being loyal to her, he said no, he was being loyal to himself because if he leaves her for me, how can we both know he won’t leave me for someone else. He said this is why he will not do that and that he prefers to wait until something happens (whatever that something is because I thought the revelation of him and I together would have been enough. He actually said that the reason that he didn’t push for a break up was because he did something wrong and he actually wants her to do something wrong so that the relationship can end.)
Sometimes, our situation seems so different from every other “other woman†story, but from what I have read on this site, it seems all “other women†think their story is different. I would love some feedback on this though. I want to back away, but then I am also afraid that I will keep hanging on. I’ve been in 3 relationships and got cheated on in all 3. I feel bad doing this knowing he has a girl, but I know I am also betting on love. Why is it that although he is being honest with me, I just can’t seem to truly hear what he is saying? Oh lord, I am so confused.
@Anusha!!!
I just heard a quote today and I thought of you, cuz it goes along with what we were discussing earlier.
It’s “The opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference, and the opposite of life is not death, it’s indifference†by Elsi Wiesel (or something similar!). So we are on the right track – we cannot put up with indifference from our men, as it shows that they don’t love us, and that there is no “life†in the relationship!!!
@Planet Jane
“I went along with it because I was scared and ended up thinking I could handle something casual because, well, I hadn’t wanted anything more. But ohhh did it turn into something more.†– I know how this happens, too. This is my story yet again!!! “I settled for xeum/ac – which in the long run has been far more miserable than “alone†ever threatened to be.†Yes – how can we put up with this misery for so long, and then crave the source of it weeks and months after we have realized they can *not* make us happy? BTW, that cell phone list of the women and codes really sounded creepy. I wouldn’t want to be the next woman on that long list, either!!!!!
@Ade – this guy sounds EU to me – with both of you on the go. How do you know what he is telling you and her about each other is true? You wrote “He has admitted that he is afraid that he will hurt me because he is not sure that he can be monogamous, which is what I told him I require from a relationship†– since he is telling you this, and he is admitting to not being able to give you what you need, why is he with you? And then “I believe (at least I want to) that he is genuine in his feelings because he has no reason to hang on to me since he has already gotten sex.†– however, he may want sex with you again in the future, and may be telling you what you want to hear in order to get it! I think my ex MM did the same thing to me the first 2 times we broke up (stopped being intimate) but continued as “friendsâ€. He admitted that he would always want me sexually even if we had agreed to be *just* friends. So I really think you need to look at his behaviour, and not just his words, as NML always suggests.
“Once when I said that he was being loyal to her, he said no, he was being loyal to himself†– I think this says a lot right here – he is being loyal to himself, he is looking out for himself – seems like it’s all about him to me, as an outsider. This waiting sounds like ‘maintaining the status quo†per NML, or again, just being plain emotionally lazy! Why would she have to do something wrong for him to end it? Sounds fishy to me!!! I do not miss the agony of being the OW after I broke up with my ex 5 weeks ago. I thought we were “different†too, but as you say, as OW, we all seem to be in the same boat, with not much power and not much respect. I think your gut is telling you to “back away†– are you going to listen to it?
@Ade – “I have asked him endlessly why he can’t just be with me and he has said that he does not want to leave one woman for another. Once when I said that he was being loyal to her, he said no, he was being loyal to himself because if he leaves her for me, how can we both know he won’t leave me for someone else. He said this is why he will not do that and that he prefers to wait until something happens (whatever that something is because I thought the revelation of him and I together would have been enough. He actually said that the reason that he didn’t push for a break up was because he did something wrong and he actually wants her to do something wrong so that the relationship can end).”
Wow. I can see why you’re confused Ade.
You know what? I really don’t think it matters WHAT ends the relationship – his wrong or hers. He’s already done wrong.
And somehow, he thinks that her leaving him – even though he’s basically forced her – will prove that he’s committed to relationships, and to you!? Because he didn’t leave her. I’m sorry, but that is bordering on absurd. It is truly amazing, our capabilities to justify our behavior to ourselves and others.
The fact is, he doesn’t want to take responsibility for himself, his feelings, his behavior and his relationship. He won’t take responsibility.
I know you’re in love. I’m sorry for that. But what could it hurt to take a step back and out of this relationship for a while? It sounds like you could both use the space to get things together.
“We’ve known each other for 16 years and he has always been in love with me.”
Umm, gulp, Ade – and I hope you’ll forgive me for what I say next, but – when a man truly loves a woman, he does something about it. He doesn’t let 16 years slide past, including a time when you were both together and free to make a clear future for yourselves.
I tend to see BIG TIME EU or even Narcissist here: feeding off your attention and affection while living whatever life he chooses along the way.
And when he did step forward to “join with you” at last, it gets done in a nasty, underhand and hurtful way.
Nah, Babes, that doesn’t smack of love to me. Not real love.
Historically, what men have done for a woman they really love was often the stuff of legend!
I agree with PlanetJane that you should step out of this, for your own sake. Once you get yourself free of this harmful and painful illusion, who knows who is really out there waiting for you?
Best Regards, Leonine
@ Leonine, PlanetJane, Meant to be Happy:
Thank you so much for your responses. But let me be completely honest with you: although he had loved me for all these years, I had always pushed him away too many times to count. I always rejected him and told him that I only want to be friends. 3 years ago, I told him to move on with his life and stop waiting for me, since he always had hope that we would be together. After being hurt in my last relationship, I turned to him because I felt safe with him and had begun to deeply regret not choosing him in the past. I have often asked if he is stringing me along for revenge, but he has said he is not stringing me along and he is not looking to take revenge.
I know his words are s**t, and his actions do not match what he proclaims, but guilt, regret, heartbreak, rejection and low-esteem have really taken a toll on me and cause me to stay. I think back to all the years he would beg me to love him and I want to kick myself for rejecting him. We talk about this a lot and he constantly reassures me that he has forgiven me for all these things. I think that perhaps if we had been together, we would have been happy but I really was not attracted to him then. I wonder what inspires my attraction now? Oh God, I am really torn…I don’t want to be hurt again because I don’t think my heart can take it. I don’t want to be with another woman’s boyfriend because I know how hurt I was when this happened to me but I just can’t seem to let go of the fact that he is the only man that ever told me he loved me…and actually meant it. I know a lot has changed in both our lives and he has said that he wants us to get to know each other better. But for me, I say I want all or nothing, but here I am waiting for a dream to become reality.
I want to back away, especially since I know that I am not in love with him, but I know that I can eventually fall in love with him, and would want to. I love him deeply because he has been my best friend (actually my only REAL friend who knows me better than anyone else) all these years, but though I get the mushy, in-love feelings many times, I don’t think I’m there…yet. A part of me wants to stay and a part wants to leave. I am going to live close to him next year for school, and inside, I am hoping that we can build something solid…but that’s only a hope and I’m just so darn confused right now that I’m beginning to cry. Thanks again.
Oooo (((Ade)))
Well, I can only say that for 13 out of 16 years something in you encouraged you to push this man away. Deep down, you never wanted to be with him in the first place. Okay, so he was your Best Friend, and that’s a double wammy to take on board – but the way he’s acting now, Ade, he’s no kind of friend at all.
I did this (with a full blown psychopath, by the way) and not only did I have to cope with the shattering on an illusion, and the hideous stalking and retribution of a psychopath (not fun, believe me); but I had to cope with a good deal of self-anger: I could hear myself thinking over and over, “I KNEW not to go near him, I damn well KNEW not to”.
But, whatever. What’s done is done and we’re all left coping with the aftermath as best we can and lapping up the wonderful insights and support we get from sites like this.
Wouldn’t it be great if our foresight was as developed as our hindsight, lol?
Confusion comes from arguing the pros and cons with ourselves inside our own heads. Don’t! Pick one course of action or another and concentrate on that. Pick being free of him. Pick walking away and looking forward to knowing more and applying it to what/who comes next in your life. Pick living and being out-an-about and mixing-and-meeting.
Cry as much as you need to (I cried for MONTHS after the ex hubby; after the ex Narcissist; after the ex EU – buckets and buckets and buckets. And thought I’d never stop… until…. I got bored, lol. I thought, “There must be something better to do than this” and there was!). Come on here and bare your soul as much as you need or want to. And learn better.
NML is right: relationships don’t just fall off the Love Tree and sort of “happen”. They’re choices and hard work and reality based behaviours and a whole bunch of other things that belong out of the realm of The Magical Feeling.
You’re going to be just fine, Ade. Better than fine. You’re going to be knowledgeable and able and certain. You’re going to be GREAT.
love, Leonine
meant you wrote…– how can we put up with this misery for so long, and then crave the source of it weeks and months after we have realized they can *not* make us happy? ”
remember dears, that what we crave is not them, but our rich fantasy version of them that we have carefully crafted in defense of the awful reality. Granted, they are partially responsible for planting the seeds of fantasy, for they hint at good times, but we supply much of the the water and sun and earth to try to help the plant grow, while they shake and stomp the ground and dump way too much non composted sh*t all over the poor plant. Or somethin like that ;-))
But, back to reality. The reality is the EUM is an ARSECLOWN, no matter if he is borderline anything, depressed, a jerk, insecure, had a hard life, wifey left him….whatever. The reality is that we want something mature, secure and meaningful. In the best case scenario the AC;s offer silliness, drama and emo-lite. If you are not so lucky they also offer the most subtle variation of emotional abuse possible. So yeah, we do not want them, we want the good we see in them that they do not see in themselves.
Ade, I’m singin with the choir above. Sorry to say this since but when I read the things he said to you I just thought ugh and ick. I also thought..lazy, dumbarse, clown goofin round, waiting for “fate” to make a decision for him. There is nothing of emotional substance or maturity needed for commitment of any kind in the man you describe. As far as love goes…I often felt that I loved the EUM, but I now see it as more of compassion for the fool, and the strong feelings I felt as wanting it to be different, the longing for deep and meaningful relationship that he could not do. That want was the strongest desire I have ever known. But, if that is love it is the stuff of torturous love and I do not want that kind of love in my life.
Ade, I did not read your second post before I responded to your first. I have always felt equal to men and from the time I was a child I often had best friends who were boys. I have had men in my teen years who were best friends, and I never knew they had romantic feelings for me until years later. It is hard to tell a good friend that you do not want a romance, but if that is the truth then that is all I can say, and it is up to them to decide how they can and will handle it.
Two things strike me as odd about your story…if he is so sure that he loves you and you seem to be finally willing to ” try” to commit to a relationship, then he would make a choice to let go of the OW and see if his dream of you ends up being reality.
But it also seems you are “settling” and I find this more than perplexing because I do not see what the rush is to settle down when you don’t have the feelings that make you want to commit to a relationship with him.
The fact that three men cheated on you also implies that you are willing to settle for some types that are not that sincere, or maybe you run in those circles where infidelity is OK. Kinda like the OW is OK with him cheating. But yet you say you have been hurt by this behavior so maybe its time to take a hard look at what you want and carefully evaluate the ones you are choosing, to see if they have the character to give you what you want.
Regardless, there is good info all over here and much to learn about ourselves.
@Ade – “but guilt, regret, heartbreak, rejection and low-esteem have really taken a toll on me and cause me to stay.”
The very things that cause you to stay in this relationship, are those that keep you from having a good relationship.
” I love him deeply because he has been my best friend (actually my only REAL friend who knows me better than anyone else) all these years, but though I get the mushy, in-love feelings many times, I don’t think I’m there…yet. A part of me wants to stay and a part wants to leave.”
This is your emotional unavailability. It sounds like you got involved with your best friend after a break-up, mainly, probably because he was there. I can understand why both of you are naturally hesitant to commit to each other. Neither of you are fully healthy and ready and available, nor trustworthy. Again, it can’t hurt to step back and take a break.
Thank you once again for the site and your creation and maintaining and keeping it going with new posts.
You’re so smart, Nat. Very true this – as are all your posts in each detail.
I was lazy for years without even knowing I was lazy.
Changing might be hard work, and oh I am so grateful for it. It makes such a difference.
And when I get tested along the way to see if I really have, then I get to see the difference between saying I want to be happy and actually doing the things that will make me happy 🙂
xoxox
Yes, I am…And, I know I need to do something about it. It is SO hard to let go of this fixture, albeit, negative fixture in my life. It has been years…coming up on my seventh year of this drama with my EUM. I am exhausted and stressed. I have cried so much as I try to let go of him that my eyes literally hurt. I am just so scared to relinquish my comfort zone of misery for the unknown. I know it sounds so pathetic, but it is so. I will do my best and try…
NML, thanks again for your insight. You are providing such a wonderful service for women.
Meant to be Happy-Thanks for your coment and your quote.I agree with you,there is no love where there is indiference.At least I didnt fell loved and important at all with him treating me that way.I want to find a guy that cherish me,that has pleasure in talking and being with me.That gets happy when he gets a call from me,that look forward to when he is going to see me next.
OKOKOKOK – I have to dump the bohemian and lately oh-so-tragic me for a minute and get in touch with my technorati side. I am sooo tempted to open up Excel and start a spreadsheet: all of our names on the left and across the top the “check it if it applies to you” categories. Have you ever heard the following words from your EU/MM/AC – “I will understand if you leave”, “I never meant to lead you on”, “We were meant to be together”, “I can’t imagine my life without you”, “If only the timing were better”, “You deserve so much more than me”, “I know I’m selfish”, “Please don’t take your friendship away from me”, “I am so confused right now”, “Wow, that’s a lot to take inâ€, “If I had only met you when blah blah blah…â€etc etc etc. Yikes.
Category number 2, which of these have happened to you lately: you wrote a long email in which you “came clean”/”bared your soul”, that sort of thing, and got a 1-liner in return. He “bared his soul” to you and you felt completely distracted while he was doing it because you kept trying to figure out whether the lines came from a “Dallas” or “Dynasty” rerun or a trashy paperback with Fabio in spurs on the cover. You went AWOL to try and break the vicious cycle and the first bait thrown your way was one of those forwarded over and over again internet funnies. You just had what seemed like emotionally laden sex and you could swear that you could hear him ticking off another item on his mental to-do list, “OK then, now I have done the conference table thingâ€.
I am torn between laughing and crying. I had a crazy busy, productive, pat-myself-on-the-shoulder kind of day today. Maybe thought of him a couple of times? But then at the end of the day I got in my car and by the time I reached the first intersection my heart had landed somewhere in the pit of my stomach and that feeling we all know came. I don’t know what I’d do without you, girls. It’s day 13 today of NC and it feels different (not to mention it’s longer) than all the other times. Reading about who you had thought was the love of your life in stories after stories of other women and realizing just how far from unique he is serves me better than a cold shower would. This site is an amazing gift.
@Meant – I should have said “what rot†instead but I seem to forget my manners (and across-the-pond idioms) late at night… ïŠ Not only did I think of my husband lots – after all each break I had initiated with the other bozo was because of him – but I continue to do so, and one of the hardest things for me to accept about my two years of utter stupidity is that I took a strong, loving relationship with the most amazing man I had ever known and destroyed it. Even when my feelings for the bozo were peaking in their intensity, I would always say to myself that this guy would never be half the man that my husband is. And now the best part of my marriage is gone because I had gone and had sex with someone to whom I was basically a trophy. I mean holy sh*t it was sex! Who the hell throws away a 10-year-long relationship for sex, in hotels and the back of a car no less?! My husband calls every day. He knows from my voice when I’ve had a tough day and he wants to hear about it. He checks to make sure that I’ve been eating. He tells me that he misses his smartass wife and reminds me to water my anemic plants. And I know that I can never go back because after what I did everything I will ever say to him will always have the underlying betrayal (which goes round and round in my head all the time) and someone of his integrity deserves someone that is not a lying sack of sh*t.
@Planet Jane – I’m sorry, but you can’t call yourself naïve, and especially triple naïve. I have already used up all the naiveté there ever was.
@Butterfly – where else do you go but off into your own head when you have screwed up this badly?
@Ade – two weeks ago I was just as convinced of his sincerity as you still are. And these guys may not all be dishonest intentionally. They are lying to us as much as they are lying to themselves. The term “sociopath†has been used a lot on this site and despite the negative connotations it carries (if this were a word association game whenever someone said “sociopath†I’d say “Ted Bundyâ€) it’s often on the inside of some very nice and intelligent people. My MM is one of the most tactful people I’ve met and probably the smartest who also possesses a rare trait of not needing to ever lord it over anyone. I know all the things that had shaped him when he was growing up and it’s certainly not his fault how damaged his emotional development had been. But that doesn’t make him any less toxic to me.
@Tricky – “I have been a character in the story of my own life, entertaining others, looking for the next chapter.†You too, huh?
Well well well. 13 days and counting and here comes a text message (he really is smart and clearly remembered that I told him I was changing my email account). “Hope you are doing good. Take care.†Umm, WTF is that for? Should I swoon now or later? Hop on a plane? Surely this is the epiphany I’ve been waiting for him to have.
Ladies, I am going to bed. I am not a bitter person and I’m too embarrassed to reread what I wrote tonight. Hitting “send†for better or worse.
@Aega “Hope you are doing GOOD”? That poor of a grammarian deserves your scorn. Just one more reason… LOL
I think this is an interesting post…I can’t say that I agree with all of it, however, it does give one reason to pause.
Sorry I’m not feeling like writing much this evening. I just think I need to allow my thought’s to drift away from my A/C situation completely for this evening. I’m tired of visualizing him doing whatever…I’d rather work on getting myself happy and whole. Hmmm, wonder what that woman will look like?
Goodnight…to all.
@brokenheartedbabble – ohthankgod I’m not the only philological elitist…lol … I thought the same thing when the message came across… Not to mention that coming from a guy with as much education as he’d had (I have to admit he outlasted me in college by a good three years), who is supposedly reaching out to me, the grammatical nonchalance just smacks of disrespect.
@Aega,
I love your spreadsheet idea!!! I will have to check off all items you mentioned, except for the “I know I’m selfish” – mine never admitted that, but I hinted to him that he was just that. Could we also add: “I couldn’t stand the heartache if our friendship ended”, “I express my feelings best in a physical way”, “I haven’t forgotten about you, it’s just that I have been sooo busy at work, and we had an emergency meeting today, and I had to fix my mother’s toilet, and my hard-drive crashed, and my son fell and hit his head, and the project I thought was due next week is actually due tomorrow…..” (OK, these are all excuses I have actually heard – pathetic!!)
I did wonder about this sentence you wrote “And now the best part of my marriage is gone because I had gone and had sex with someone to whom I was basically a trophy. I mean holy sh*t it was sex! Who the hell throws away a 10-year-long relationship for sex, in hotels and the back of a car no less?!” (to answer – perhaps people who are “looking for love in all the wrong places”?)
Why do you think you have thrown away your marriage? Your feelings and respect for your husband shine through the “AC quagmire” in your posts, even though you know you have hurt him (regardless of whether or not he’s aware of your affair). I read a book called “When Good People Have Affairs” by Mira Kirshenbaum, and she talks about the reasons why married people have affairs, and guides the reader through how to end them so that the best outcome is achieved for all involved. There is also some info from the book available through a quick “google”.
You wrote “I know all the things that had shaped him when he was growing up and it’s certainly not his fault how damaged his emotional development had been. But that doesn’t make him any less toxic to me.” – that’s true, and he’s also toxic to your marriage. Breaking up with, and getting over a MM, on whom you have spent so much emotional energy, is sooo tough, but please think about the benefits of choosing the man who will end up being the better life partner for you. (please excuse the run-on sentence – it’s late)
OK, that’s it for me – I’m off to bed now too.
Good night all…
I have SO much to say and I can’t really type cos I sliced my finger wide open – ouch! – it’s healing nicely but didn’t go to get it stitched (spare you the grisly details).
However …
@Ade – I will be VERY blunt. The man treats you like shit. Tell him he is treating you like shit and that IF he means it that he loves you that actions speak louder than words. Then much as it hurts go NC because he is TELLING you what he knows is true and you don’t hear it. None of us hear it. You’re betting on potential of a man who has none.
Please download NML’s book cos it rocks. It will really help you.
@Meant – “Yes – how can we put up with this misery for so long, and then crave the source of it weeks and months after we have realized they can *not* make us happy?”
I know! I can only think of it as an addiction. It really is. I’ve recommended this book before, but “Facing Love Addiction” by Pia Mellody is great.
Luv and good night!
PlanetJane: It was me who wrote that I have a high level of emotional integrity. I also stated that I was naive, naive, naive, because I made the assumption that most people operated from a level of – at the very least – the very basics of honesty. I mean, even with “great sex” removed from the equation, who would continue to be with someone they weren’t quite sure about? To me, it makes no sense to be just sort of there. How silly of me.
I’m now obsessing over this topic: emotional laziness. And, while I don’t feel that I am lazy, I do keep coming back to something I had read in NML’s book, Mr. U and the FBG. I can’t find the exact quote but there was something along the lines of, ” . . . his inertia enables your inertia which reinforces his inertia…” And, certainly that happened to me. I still obsess with the thought of, “How did I go from a very decisive individual to one who was willing to, ‘wait and see,’ what he would do next?” I mean, really, how did I let that happen? Why did I choose to stay, particularly after it became evident that this man equivocated on everything. And I do mean everything? It is like it was contagious.
There are a couple of books written by Stephen Carter and Julia Sokol on the topic of emotional unavailability. They refer to the “push-pull” dynamics of EU relationships. The other person is pulling you into the relationship; when you get pulled in, the other then turns around and pushes you away. This is what creates what many of us have referred to as the roller coaster effect. The instability is one that causes emotional exhaustion.
Anyway, these authors further explain that in eu relationships, quite often one person is passively avoiding intimacy and the other one actively avoids intimacy. I think that from the tales on this “board” and other similar sites, that that indeed might be what happens. It’s what makes the relationships so compelling, particularly when one or both parties is in a primary relationship. There are patterns that some of us tend to fall into.
I don’t know that I will ever really find the answers, but I do know this: He was confused and he was confusing. And even though I knew that his actions and his words were not matching, I found myself paralysed to move on.
Thank God I found the concept of No Contact.
I still don’t know that I agree that it is laziness. I might say that it is what we are familiar with. It is what we know.
@ Leonine – wb! Hope you had a nice holiday. Got to agree with you, re Ade’s post – this is saying Narc more than EUM to me too.
@ Ade
Your story made me sigh with recognition, it’s a variation on my own and I agree with the other comments that this is certainly EU behaviour with a hefty dose of narcissism thrown in. I say this because I’ve been there.
He’s in a long distance relationship -yep, my EUM always has LDR’s, there’s safety in the distance.
He proclaimed love for you for 16 years – well that was safe too because you were not available to him
He’s not sure he can be monogamous – my version was ‘I can never belong to one woman again’ it’s a warning and a test, if you don’t walk at this point they know you’ll accept the other woman/women
Being ‘loyal to himself’ – rephrased this is ‘I will do what is best for me regardless’
I could go on but this is so like my AC that it hurts. You must step away, I must do the same, because they will do absolutely nothing to change things, NML says that they specialise in inertia and it’s so true, and in a situation like this why would they want to change? They’ve got 2 women, and despite what you’ve told him, you have sort of accepted this, I did exactly the same. Maybe the other woman has accepted it too, he must be delighted with himself.
They don’t want a real relationship so they go for LDR’s or EU women. Thats the other hard part, looking at your own emotional availablity, Someone mentioned ‘He’s scared, she’s scared’ by Stephen Carter which I’d recommend too in addition to all the information and help you’ll get from this site.
I do feel for you Ade, it’s very very hard to walk away from someone who’s been part of your life for so long. I hope you are able to.
About LDR: the woman all that dustance away is being fed “you should be here with me” and tales of such longing, such love, such “when you are here”, “someday” … and they believe that man is being as true to them as they areto him most of the time. Yet concrete plans rarely made … take it from one who went there.
Sorry I should say it was only when there WAS evidence of another that I walked. He knows I mean business – I don’t think he will contact me. He has seen that when I determine something I throw all my will at it.
@Planet Jane – I will have to check out that book you mentioned. I have read parts of “Getting Over Your Addiction to a Person” by H. Halpern (I think that’s right) and many of his ideas applied, too. Whether we are addicted to the fantasy version of him, or to the familiarity of the pain (because we may be emotionally lazy), it seems to be more difficult to get over this addiction than it was to quit smoking (which I did 10 years ago, and I *still* remember going thru hell).
@Butterfly – sorry to hear you hurt your finger. I’m thinking this may be why you haven’t been able to reply to my email? I really am interested in your answer 🙂
@sadthing – maybe I’ll read the book *you* mentioned too! So much to learn!!!
@everyone
OK, I am getting very anxious as I have to see my ex tomorrow, and will have to be working with him basically 24/7 for the next 4 days at this conference we are both involved in. I was NC with him for 5 weeks, but broke it a few days ago by IMing him. At the conference, there are social events every evening, which we are expected to go to, along with the conference attendees, and there is always drinking and laughing, etc. These events are ones where we have always spent much time together in the past, and I am anxious about being able to maintain my renewed NC under these circumstances. When I hear his voice, or smell his cologne, my body and brain react in a very strong and compelling way, and I am not sure I am ready for this!!!
Does anyone have any strategies they can share to help? I know the basics of keeping all interactions “strictly business”, but it will be the first time I have to do this in person. Of course I have Butterfly’s image of the fly-ridden crotch, and lisa suggested asking him how his wife is, if he tries to ‘reel me in”. I’m wondering if anyone else has any other tried-and-true strategies for maintaining NC when you have to see the person through work? I’m feeling weird about it, as I was able to do 5 weeks of NC when I didn’t have to SEE him, but now I will suddenly have to see him again, and I’m not exactly feeling strong. Any help would be much appreciated!!!
Wow, Meant to be Happy! That has got to be rough just knowing you can’t get out of this….it is finally here.
Maybe you can think about how he feels about getting to see you. He probably isn’t sweating it at all, probably sort of smug and thinking “once she sees me, she’ll want me again…. maybe we can hook up for old times sake even though I’m still married and have my wife at home”
I don’t know. I know the few times that my ex MM showed up in my life after no contact, he seemed like he just expected me to be the way I used to be, even after months and months of not seeing each other and no calls or e-mails, and seeing him like that made it easier to be sickened by him. Seeing that he wasn’t affected like I had been turned my stomach.
Well, stay away from alcohol!!! 🙂 I don’t know about you, but my defenses go way down if I’ve had a little drink or two.
In my line of work, I was able to request that I NEVER be placed on a “gig” with this guy ever again even if it meant I didn’t get gigs anymore, and that has helped. I’m guessing you might not be able to request that for yourself, but if it is at all an option to talk to your superior about it, please do.
I’ll be thinking about you! I know you have had some great support here from a lot of smart women and just KNOW that everyone will be here to cheer you on and help you through this.
@butterly and aega
From my own perspective, I dont think wanting to be alone is a bad thing or a sign of emotional unavailability. I was EU, before i started seeing my psychologist and dealing with my issues….but what I also uncovered in the process is that I am an introvert! And, being alone is a necessary thing for me to function properly! So, all of this to say…as long as you have balance and that your actions reflect good intentions and come from a positive place, I think you should not ‘shun’ wanting to be alone.
Meant to be Happy: I, too, am in the same industry as my ex EUM, and I end up having to be in the same room, etc.; although I am not in his line of supervisees, he is higher than I on the org chart, and I cannot avoid these venues. The work that I do intersects with his supervisess. Anyway, what has worked for me is to stay absolutely NC, other than a, “hello,” which he does initiate.
It is almost “highschoolish”, but in those events that I know he will be at, I “program” my route to be entirely different than his, AND I make sure that I have a colleague with me. I either go really early and find a seat at the very back of the room on an outside edge of a row, and then engage myself in conversation with the colleague, or take out my portfolio and catch up on past reading material, OR I wait to go in at the last minute, and stand at the outside edge by the door. Either way, when the meeting or presentation is over, I can get out the room immediately.
There have been many an occasion where we come face to face. He usually stops and says, “hello.” I simply say, “hello”, but I look at that spot right in the middle of the forehead rather than down or in his eyes. That way, if anyone sees me or is with me, I am not appearing rude, etc. I also continue to keep walking. On one horrid occasion, we did end up, because of a bottleneck, exiting the room side by side. It was the most painful 5 minutes of my life, but I survived. I did not engage in smalltalk.
Most people, including him, have a sort of set pattern of behavior. Arrives at work between such and such a time, goes to lunch between such and such a time, parks in the same area of the garage, etc. He is no different. So, I changed my patterns, slightly, but not enough that my life has had to be entirely disrupted. It just mitigates the random encounters, a bit.
Also, there are times that I have found him looking at me, I just simply turn the other way and engage in conversation with someone else or turn around and walk away. As far as I know, no one knew about us, but then, one never knows. I know I kept quiet, but I don’t know if he did.
While all of this is so counterintuitive to who I am, it has saved me from getting involved, again, with him on any level. When there is work related stuff, I let the higherarchy work for me, in that I use any route possible to follow the chain of command. I used to not follow that at all, but the layers of the system have been a lifesaver for me.
While it is extremely uncomfortable to have to do all of this planning and evading, it has kept me from getting “reeled” in. Although I have not completely healed, I have healed to the point that no matter how much I feel that “pull” that he has over me – the addiction – I will continue with this exhausting routine, until I get to where he no longer has that effect on me. Time does not heal all wounds, not wounds of this nature, anyway, so I have to change my behaviors, etc.
Hope this help.
@Cassie – no, wanting some alone time is good. Maybe I wasn’t too clear … there is a difference though. For instance I am loving being alone at home on a Saturday 🙂 Having my own space is great … but that’s not quite what I meant.
@Meant yes lol partially that and partially forcing myself to do some stuff I’ve been putting off. Strategies? Imagine there’s a HUGE flashing sign over his head saying “I AM A SMUG C***!!!!”
Subconciously add to the end of every sentence he says to you the word “wanker”.
Imagine him on the toilet after a mega strong Phaal curry. Add your own noises.
Consider how SURE you are that he does not have any diseases. Specially consider HIV. These are extreme measures.
Remember how shit you felt the other night after you spoke to him and reminisced …
Above all … professionalism. TELL HIM YOU ARE JUST WORKMATES. Tell yourself it. You do not have to accept a drink with him/his room/your room/a dance or anything else. Can you wear the cost of room service instead of dining with him? Take a new book with you. Make the most of the bath to wallow … ANYTHING! You do not have to spend 24/7 with him 🙂
+++
I don’t want to jimx this. I just don’t want to. I have met someone recently who ticks all my actual wants boxes – honest, reliable, kind, trustworthy. He seems to like me. I’d never have thought of someone like him as ever being interested in me and tbh I would have had all my defences up so much that he wouldn’t have been interested. As it is, he met the real me, the relaxed me (I even made a point of turning up not fussed about a bad hair day or getting all dressed up). I dunno if anything will happen, I am not betting on any potential but I feel very comfortable around him and not in the familiar way. Quietly smiling and seeing what happens … but if something does then I will be telling you because it will be because of NML, because of you ladies and because I stopped putting my energies on that clown.
@ Leonine:
Sadly, the only reason I pushed him away was because I didn’t think he was good looking. Nothing else was wrong with him. In fact, I couldn’t understand why I was not attracted to him before last year. He is ambitious, successful, funny…all the things women seek in men, and yet, it was only after me last relationship ended in March 2008 that I felt as if I needed to be with him before he gave his heart to someone else. Growing up, he used to wait for me after school, he’d call me at home and be on the phone for hours listening to me talk about my “issuesâ€, he was just truly my best friend. A few years back, he even spent an entire day with me and my gf walking the mall and carrying our bags and I still treated him like shit. He has always been there, always loving me, always asking for a chance, and I always said no. He was willing to wait on me but I told him to move on with his life. I am not denying that he is EU or even a potential narcissist, but I really don’t want to cast the impression that I am a saint and have done nothing wrong. I know that my rejection (and the fact that he sat and watched me constantly choose other men – who treated me like shit and cheated on me – over him) is a big part of why he has become this way. Trust me, he was not always like this as he was once so true and so pure. I know that my awful ways brought out the coldness in him that we all have inside us. I hurt him… but maybe… now… perhaps I deserve for him to hurt me??
@ aphrogirl:
When I think about it, I say “ugh†and “ick†too. NO, I do not run in circles where infidelity is ok. In fact, nothing scares me more than being cheated on since that is the main cause of my past devastations. This is why I am so disappointed in myself because before being involved with my bff, I used to really despise women who got with another’s man/bf/husband. Now look at me, I have become the same piece of trash that I hate…and as much as I want to pull away, I just can’t fight the feeling that no one else will love me like he did/does/can.
@ PlanetJane
I also believe that I am EU but I don’t know how to really open up anymore. Each time I open up to him or to my best gf, I feel overwhelmed and have to pull away for a day or more. I know that we are both unhealthy, but I believe that I caused him to be this way with my rejection. I know how badly it hurt him when I would brush him off to be with my “next best loverâ€â€¦and all the while, he still held hope for me.
@Butterfly
Hope your finger gets better soon.
I won’t deny that I think he is treating me shitty, but I also won’t deny that I treated him shitty for so much more than 8 months. I don’t say this to justify what he is doing; I say it because I don’t want you to believe that I am a saint in this either. I really appreciate your bluntness; it was like a slap in the back of the head :o)
P.S. I have NML’s book. I have also read up on narcissism and yes, I think he is more of that than EU also.
@Sadthing:
Wow, I don’t even know what to say since you were so accurate. This LDR is his first relationship and I was surprised he chose to be with someone who lives so far away. As for me, I had been planning to go to school in the US for a while, but he pushed for me to choose a school nearby him. He seemed genuinely happy that I would be coming to study there.
Ladies, when I read your responses, I get the universal message of: BACK OFF NOW!!! I am usually averse to taking advice, but yours is advice based on experience and lots of information. I will listen. I know it will be hard to back away because, I have a hard time getting over anything, especially relationships (and the men). I’m trying to work on my self-esteem and self-worth. I know that I should not accept his behaviour and that I should set appropriate boundaries, but I also know that there is a sick part of me that is desperate to be loved (though I question if I even know how to love), and that this desperation causes me to feel as if I deserve his treatment since I hurt him. I suppose my subconscious wants me to be the one who can heal his broken heart. I will keep reading this site, hoping to gain further insight.
I truly appreciate all the time you have spent “listening†to my troubles and giving me your great advice.
Blessings and best wishes to you all,
Ade
@lisa and Angelina
Thank you so much for your suggestions. You are right lisa, I cannot get out of working with him at this event – we are both on the planning committee for the conferences (this is the 8th one we’ve been involved in planning), and so we *have* to interact. The first time will be tomorrow at a planning committee meeting before the attendees arrive (which will be on Monday). So there will be about 15 of us at the pre-meeting, and at the dinner/drinks event afterwards. I usually sit with him and a couple colleagues of his, but there are others I sometimes sit with, and I will make a conscious effort to sit with these other people (who are a lot of fun, anyway!!) as per Angelina’s suggestion. Lisa, I’m sure he’s not sweating at all about seeing me again, and I suppose he may just think I’ll go back to my usual pattern of interacting with him, as your MM expected. You’re right, that is a nauseating thought. It’s funny, usually at this time I am sooo excited about seeing him again, and can’t wait for the conference to begin. This time I am dreading it.
Not sure if I can stay away from alcohol completely (I usually have a few at these events), but I’ll definitely cut back so I can stay focused on what’s best. Angelina, I won’t be able to stay on a completely different route than him (which is a great idea), but there will be some times during the conference that I can change my patterns slightly. I like the “looking at the middle of his forehead†idea. If I look into his eyes and he has that “little boy look†that can make me melt, it may be difficult not to think of him in a loving way. One problem time will be when I am presenting a session – I suppose there’s not much I can do about being at the front of the room then!!! You said “As far as I know, no one knew about us, but then, one never knows. I know I kept quiet, but I don’t know if he did.†– this is the same for me, but I’m almost positive he wouldn’t have told anyone as he is a MM. However, the conference organizers and some of our colleagues do know we usually hang out with the same crowd during these things, and they know the ex is my brother’s supervisor, so they may wonder why I avoid him.
As far as I know, he may not even care/react if I avoid him. And this is where I am becoming my own worst enemy. I would hate him to start flirting with someone else – I am ashamed to admit I would be jealous, even though I know what “she†would be getting – a roller coaster ride with an EUM (unless he finds someone who’s fine with “no strings sexâ€).
Angelina, I really liked your last paragraph, and I hope to get there too.
Thank you again for your support – I don’t know what I would do without the wonderful people on this site! I am going to get back to preparing my presentation now, so I will feel more confident about it!!!
@Butterfly
Sorry to double post, but I didn’t see your response before I hit submit. Thank you for your suggestions too – I love your sense of humour!!! So now I have the fly-ridden crotch image, the sign over his head, the “wanker” additions to his sentences, and the imagined HIV – hopefully he won’t have a chance now!!! It’s more myself I am worried about, though. I *must* be strong!!!
and I hope things go well with the new person in your life 🙂
Butterfly,
“Subconciously add to the end of every sentence he says to you the word “wankerâ€
LOLOL! You are truly funny, and I wish I would have thought of that when the guy had showed up in my life a few times! I’m saving that thought just in case.
Ok, so I just researched “narcissist”, I don’t agree anymore that my bff is one. He is, instead, a HUGE commitmentphobe, and sadly a coward. *sigh*
I really like what you wrote about “struggling to hold onto a relationship that doesn’t exist.” I see this happen to so many women who are trying to hang onto the relationship that they used to have, or an idealistic version of their relationship. As for me, I don’t feel that I am emotionally lazy, but I think that it can easily happen to anyone if you let yourself forget that relationships require continued effort to succeed.
Meant to be Happy: I, too, am my own worst enemy, because I wonder if he is impacted by my actions. And, that it another damned addiction: being in his head instead of mine.
Thus, while I will continue to argue against the concept of me being emotionally lazy. Emotionally absorbed, emotionally addicted to trying to make sense out of nonsense, but definitely not lazy. Anyway, that is not my point here.
Susan Elliott, Getting Past Your Past, talks of, “Rejecting the Rejector.” I’m not quite sure that I truly understand the way in which she writes of this, but how I have come to use this term is to switch from sadness to empowerment. Instead of wondering why he did or didn’t do something, to think of his character traits that harmed me. And to turn it around to: I don’t want a man who was rude and disrespectful to me. I don’t want a man who walked away from kind, loving, and caring. Nor do I want a man who is duplicitous and hypocritical. I deserve the best of the best of characters.
So, when you are presenting, and if he is in the room… Focus on you and what you would envision to be a stellar presentation, not what he might think about it. For me, the negative imaging that others use for aversion – that has just never worked for me – so I instead focus on what I can do to make me look outstanding, classy, ultra-professional, calm, cool, collected.
I hope that I am making some sense here.
@Ade actually the more I read the more likely Narc comes to mind … so he idolised you, couldn’t have you, you were “better” than him, he had to have you blah blah blah … and then he can have you and you want him and he has the reason to devalue you. I hope I am wrong, Narcs are bad news in life, but it resonates so much with all I know of them 🙁
@lisa thank you and trust me I wish I’d thought “tiny cock tiny cock” harder than I did. LOL.
@Angelina,
“I deserve the best of the best of characters.” – yes, we do!!!
“I hope that I am making some sense here.” – yes, you are!!!
Thank you so much 🙂
Hi girls I have a question,how can I be sure that I will find a nice guy? I know that is kind of pessimistic but that is how I have been felling about relationships lately.I have been hearing that I will find a guy that deserves me since my first failed relationship(about 10 years ago) and until today he havent showed up.Sometimes I think I will never find it.So how can I be sure that I will find him?
@Meant
I have one for you. About a year ago, the MM and I were going to find ourselves in the same hotel for one night. We were at one of the friends-only stages at the time, but I dreaded the trip because our travel department had booked us at the same hotel even though we were there for different meetings and by the time I realized it I was stuck with that reservation.
When I arrived he’d already been there for two days. Met me in the lobby, having picked up some takeout for us. I had no intention of sleeping with him, and had told him so. He didn’t push the issue, but at one point while we were sitting around and making each other laugh hysterically, he kissed me on the top of my head. It was almost ridiculously chaste. Didn’t matter. That opened my floodgates and were in bed 10 minutes later.
I’m making this story too long. Here’s the part I cringe to tell: he didn’t spend the night. All these months of “uncanny connection”, hugs and holding hands, love that transcended all and such drivel, and he LEAVES after sex.
I was ever so casual about it with him, but after he’d gone I cried so hard that I thought my heart would burst. He’d said, after tossing and turning for about 10 minutes after he had turned out the lights and set the alarm, that if he stayed he wasn’t going to get any sleep because he just couldn’t stay away from me. He had a very big interview the next morning, but guess what – I was there for an interview, too. When he got up I pretended to be asleep already. The few minutes it took him to get dressed and collect his things were the most humiliating moments of my life.
Yes, there were explanations later, and months down the road a lot of the intimacy came back, but I have never for one minute forgotten how I felt lying under that hotel sheet as he was fumbling with his shirt and pants. No matter what he said to justify it, the fact remained that HE LEFT AFTER SEX. That was our last hotel “rendezvousâ€. I have to admit I had sex with him one other time after that, right before I moved away. One of the hardest things immediately afterwards was to get myself collected and leave. In case he might beat me to it.
Think of the singular most callous thing that came your way at some point in your relationship and stir up all the unpleasant feelings that came with it. Allow yourself to feel whatever it was that had sickened you at some point. Picture him doing it to you over and over again as you’re having a civilized glass of wine with him and your colleagues. You know you don’t want to wake up the next morning, step into an unfamiliar hotel bathroom and look at your face in the mirror. The person staring back at you will be someone who had just forgiven the unforgivable “one last time†came back for more hurt and humiliation.
I want you to come back as the strong, bright, and beautiful woman who tells us all about how she laughed at the pathetic advances of some guy who is so far from her league that he might as well be that leper with a rotten crotch. Yeah, so he wants you. So what? The drunk and greasy guy that is waking up in his own vomit in some doorway you pass in the morning wants you too. You gonna stop and give him what he wants rather than go on with your day (which by the way may very well be filled with droves of new guys that actually deserve to worship at your pedestal. Ya know what? I say screw ‘im. My dog has better manners than guys like him even if she does drink from the toilet.
I just booted up MSN Messenger and there he was. Almost had to laugh. He had never used that message line that appears under your screen name in the main window, but this time I saw that he’d changed it to “sad and tired†sometime between yesterday’s (unanswered) text message to me and just now. Oh please. Yes, why don’t I just pull out my Amex and book the next flight home so that I can tend to his needs.
I’m not nearly as over him as I sound tonight. But I did work myself up enough to get rid of missing him just now.
.-= Aega´s last blog ..Family Picture =-.
@ Anusha STOP LOOKING AND DO STUFF FOR *YOU*.
@Meant – I liked Angelina’s comments about projecting yourself at that conference. This is very sound advice … do it for you 🙂
Hey guys, I don’t know what that link under my last post is. I hit “submit” and it showed up. ??
.-= Aega´s last blog ..Family Picture =-.
@Aega
OK, your story is really resonating with me, and making me feel stronger, even though I have tears in my eyes. My tears are those of empathy, sympathy, recognition, and also result from remembering the times when my ex treated me almost exactly the way you described. Most of the times we are at these conferences, he wants to stay the night, and *I* am the one who wants him to return to his room so no-one discovers we have been together (we have been almost careless at times, which is highly risky and ridiculous, as neither one of us wants to jeopardize our careers). However, after the times we have met at motels for the afternoon, he is always the one rushing to leave, so he isn’t “a few minutes late getting homeâ€. One time, I discovered this was an excuse. I had asked him for one more hug, and he quickly gave me one, saying “we should go, otherwise it will just be one more hug after another and we’ll be here for ages.†I then suggested I could go for one more “round†(so to speak), and he was completely fine with spending the time to do *that*! So yes, that behaviour (and other EU actions he displayed) has made me feel crappy many times. Thank you so much for your suggestion too.
@Butterfly
“I liked Angelina’s comments about projecting yourself at that conference†– so did I, and it gave me even more motivation to prepare an amazing presentation – for me and the other attendees, not for him.
Anusha, I don’t know how old you are but its hard to imagine that all young men have gone EUM in your gen. I think the lesson learned on this site is we need to be really careful with who we choose to get involved with. And if you are looking for a partner, a man to raise a family with then pay close attention to Brad’s posts. He has spelled out the distinction between the ” fun guy”, the attractive guy, the players, the nice guy and the ones with the serious qualities needed for a long term partner.
You very much are seeking a solid and good person and this means looking beyond, maybe even looking away from the type of men who you typically get involved with. Maybe this means carefully evaluating the kind of guys you are typically attracted to. Maybe this means paying attention to some men that you are not initially attracted to. Many people choose partners based on physical looks and social position, money, status etc… Those things are not top priorities on my list.
The point of all these posts is that fallback girls often fall in with men that are not so good and then stay there. If you enjoy the exciting qualities that the EUM initially brings to a relationship without noticing if he has the solid qualities that are needed you will be a bit lost at sea. My priorities are an ability and desire to grow and communicate, and if the relationship is lacking a solid foundation – , strong and intelligent communication and mutual goals, then I think one must move on and look elsewhere or you will be miserable.
We are not born with crystal balls, but like I said, its so hard to imagine a whole generation has gone bad. Seek those qualities of communication and commitment in another, and be sure they are in you, and that is the best way to find a good man or friend. Remember you have to be ready to do things differently than in your past, and you have to be ready to take a hard look at the relationship and be willing to leave if it’s not working. Good luck.
@ butterfly: thank you for the welcome back! My daughter and I had a great time – and I had my own secret fun spotting Eus, ACs and Fall Back Girls on the beach…. it’s amazing just how many there are, lol.
I wanted to run round giving all the poor FBGs this link!
love, Leonine
Anusha, I did think of something else. Earlier you mentioned that you have focused on a man being your main source of interest. This might make you a bit needy to a well balanced guy. You also noted you have no hobbies which is hard for me to imagine !
Being in NC from an EUM is the right time to focus on you. Here is what that means..explore and learn what gives you joy and happiness alone, that does not include another person. If you like art try painting or drawing. If you like music take up an instrument. I have played guitar badly all my life, but it is something I really enjoy and often keeps me grounded. I love hiking and camping and these are things I even enjoy doing by myself now that I am single. If you have been meaning to eat better, get in shape or any of that now is the time to do those things. Maybe you have always thought of volunteering to help old folks or others truly in need of help or a bit of company ( BUT NOT EUM”S !!!)
This is what everyone means by loving and taking care of yourself..finding out who you are, what you enjoy, and doing those things that you love. We all have the ability to be amazing people and really, we should never seek to be defined nor made happy by our partners, or sad by our lack of a partner. Loving yourself starts with getting to know who you are and what you believe in and then doing things that you enjoy, that defines you and gives meaning to your life.
This is lifelong work also, so its never too late to start. And I am most grateful for the opportunity to be reminded of that, thank you dear.
aphrogirl- Thanks for your coments.Im 26 and my ex was my first relationship but all the other guys I liked before him didnt like me back.Is amazing how that happens with pretty much every guy I like.Right now even I just got rejected by a guy online.I dont give too much importance to status or looks.I mean I do think looks have some importance and that you have to be at least a litle atracted to the guy otherwise the relationship cant happen but it isnt the most important thing.Most of the guys I liked even were considerated avarage or ugly.I dont know what is going on but Im having enough of all those disapointments.I really want a good relationship but I dont want to keep going trough that over and over again.Is like playing on the slot machine and losing every time,you realy want the price but after a while you get enough of always losing and stop to play.I realy fell like “stoping to play” with relationships for a while.
Anusha
Stopping for a time sure seems like a good idea to me.
I can only tell you how it was for me when I was younger. I never really wanted a boyfriend because I did not want to settle down, I wanted to travel and I did not want to get married. I never went on dates, I did have boyfriends but I got to know them through circles of friends. I was always part of a large group of friends. Like if you were on a softball team… except we just partied. I was not EUW but I did not want to be defined by a man and a relationship and all the men I knew, heck many I still know, have to call the shots. In my gen it really was very much a mans world and early feminists like me did not really want to buy into that world. But ai did settle down woth a good man for 30 years and raised a great girl who is now off to school. And met the EUM….and learned about NC, a great thing.
Even as I find myself single now, at 50, and very much do like being in a relationship, I cannot imagine going on any organized dating site. It has always seemed to me that when it comes to friends, lovers and attraction people come into my life at random, and that is the way I expect I will meet someone. I am not looking but I am open to the possibility. The more I get out and do things I like..the more likely I am to meet someone without actively seeking. Like you have to stop looking and wanting and just be open to all life has to offer.
Again, recovering from the EUM is time to learn new healthier ways, new hobbies and I think it is definitely a time to give up the man hunting hobby for some time while you work on finding out who you are and feeling good on your own.
Men can be fun, but trust me, an old lady, there are lots of other things as much fun. Finding those things, and doing them and enjoying them – without a man in the picture – is such a confidence booster. And secure men are attracted to confident woman. And you will never break your own heart by finding and loving you.
Good Evening,
I had to come here to reinforce what I already know- NC means NC. Today’s is my ex’s birthday, and I really wanted to send him a quick email-just to say happy birthday. It seemed the “decent” thing to do. Well, I am reading some of the reactions to the latest article, and I remembered, these EUMs don’t treat anyone decently (for an extended or consistent amount of time, anyway) so why be decent to someone is who is not? I went to the store, bought some things I could have lived without, but hey, it is a small price to pay for my dignity.
@Butterfly-Sorry to hear about your finger. Hope it heals soon.
@Meant…stay away from the lounge or cocktail hour…if you don’t drink, that will be a plus.
Notice when you first see him how he’s not as tall as you remembered. My gosh…the man actually shrunk! He’s looking a bit tired also. Kind of unsure of himself and trying to get validation by getting your attention and keeping it. Oh my…he’s really obsessing about you not obsessing…he’s actually embarrassing himself. The more he talks and moves around…the smaller he gets. Shorter…shorter…and that horrid fly ridden crotch, oozing cold sore inside his mouth. Everyone sees the clown and he has no clue.
Remember, whatever you do…walk in each room, steppin’ high and thinking about the incredible woman you are and that at any moment you could walk into your destiny…while pee pants over in the corner is standing there waving his grubby hands for the attention.
Okay…and also remember this…we are all here watching you, cheering you on, Mz Incredible!!!
I was wondering about something … it’s not really in line with this post/thread but here goes (- otherwise please move this post if not entirely appropriate).
Sorry this sounds so basic but … well, a friend and I was discussing this concept of EU and she thought that it’s a case of ‘not being into me’ personally, and that he will be emotionally available to other women when he’s ready to properly move on. He was recently divorced when I met him but believe me he had all the tell tale signs of an EUM according to this site! Had been single most of his life, early abandonment issues, etc. etc. I am new to all this so I really don’t know what to believe. I’ve had great relationships before but this one just made a u-turn after two months and more or less took back his love and everything that came with it. He confused me completely.
If possible, it would be great to get some input on this. This is the most complicated man I have ever met!
@Penny – good for you girl 🙂 I think I am also to the stage of reinforcing NC, this site helped me learn a lot of things fast and I’ve explored further on various fronts. I have my closure in terms of knowing why. Now I need to keep the NC and I am utterly UTTERLY convinced that the menstrual cycle plays a part cos a few days ago I was so low and thinking of him, today I don’t give a stuff about him … and this is demonstrable. Other posts have stuff about pain addiction etc which was really handy (Nat? Thoughts?)
@Jetred YES YES YES he is going to be turning up the charm factor on her too cos he isn’t getting what he wants. I overlooked saying that to Meant … hugs to you.
@Meant – yeah he will. He will ooze and slime all over you. Don’t see it as signs he cares … it’s all about him. He will turn up the charm not because he loves you/misses you/is secretly crazy about you no matter what he says it’s his EGO. He has to chase … he has to win, to dominate, to prove he still has it and that you’re just that little weak bit of fluff … urgh, nasty I know but true … he already thinks he is on a promise so when that doesn’t turn up he will try harder. Just be firm and remember everything we’ve all said here cos we have never met you, we have never seen you, we have never touched you but there’s a bond with all of us far more special than this GIMP ever gave you.
Sorry Elle – just saw your post. Going for the short answer here = unless you’ve had a dose of this behaviour personally you can’t understand it so friends aren’t always supportive. Having said that your friend could well be right. As usual I recommend NML’s downloadable book, will give you some food for thought about YOU, not this guy. He’s not the important part, in any way, you are and your role in why this has happened. That confusion, that taking back, that red hot bait and switch? Yeah … we’ve all had that here and it’s devastating not least because you can’t understand it.
I really recommend that book of Nat’s – apart from anything, it’s supporting her to keep this resource going and it’s a bloody marvellous job she does.
Elle, there are a few constants to stories on this site. Yours is much like mine..a first encounter with a troubled person. Here is what I learned…I have been taught to help others, and those in need, perhaps to an extreme. The ” complicated” man I knew did 180’s whenever he got closer but could never talk about the biazarre turn of events after the fact. And that would both confuse and frustrate me. That confusion gave me illogical strong feelings of wanting to hold on and work even harder.Though I knew to keep some distance, I still got pretty involved and also depressed by the instability and confusion.
All along, I assumed he wanted help becoming healthier. What I see now is that he does, but does not have the life workforce to do that work, and is comfortable enough being unhealthy.
Also, I think this confusing behavior in a man often does trigger motherly helping instincts in women, and can make the guy appear special, he’s wounded, bla bla bla. Maybe they are wounded but read enough of our posts and you will see they are not so special…well, maybe especially awful.
Because I was taught to work with people, and because I grew up with a mentally ill mom, I suppose I will always be vulnerable to the confused push pull needy types. Its just I have never encountered one before, and I got really depressed trying to develop a mature relationship work with an EU, non communicative man.
And Butterfly is right bout your girlfriends, if you have never been through it you can’t really relate and it the ” he’s just not that into you” philosophy does not quite fit. At the same time it would be great to read all over this site because there may be a way to spot these types, and what it is in ourselves that may attract or accept their behavior, instead of dealing with it before we get too involved.
Oh, and two months, consider yourself lucky and hopefully this is not too hard and you are not much invested. My odd EUM experience lasted for years and I figure it will take me a sold year on NC to make me fully grasp all the lessons.
@Jetred,
He’s getting shorter- love it! I am actually quite tall, so I usually wear my flats when I see him, but you’ve just given me the idea to pack my high heels, too! He *will* be shorter, lol. And I’m not packing my sexy underwear, either – I will feel so business-like, it won’t be funny!
@Butterfly “there’s a bond with all of us far more special than this GIMP ever gave you.” – yes, that’s true. I feel like you are all coming to the conference with me 🙂
I will be leaving soon to drive to the city where the conference is being held. Thanks again to all of you for your support. I’ll keep you posted!!
Meant xoxo
Ade, sounds like you are looking for excuses as to why he is not commiting. Sure you might have hurt him and rejected himin the past but this is here and now! You need certain things and he can´t give it. Simple as that. I´d give him an ultimatum to either get in (and get over you rejecting him in the past if that is the issue, which I doubt) or get out.
Elle: Brad K. makes a good point about EU “being” a diagnosable, clinical, psychological condition. I’m not sure that it is labeled in the DSM IV, but most definitely people who are EU are wired in such a way, OR have learned behaviors that keep them from a heart to heart engagement with another person.
There is “tons” of literature out there on this topic. Much of it anecdotal, but also quite a bit written by psychotherapists. If you really want to learn about this “condition”, I would suggest reaading
“He’s Scared, She’s Scared” by Stephen Carter and Julia Sokol; “The Commitment Cure” by Rhonda Findling; “How to Spot a Dangerous Man Before You Get Involved” by Sandra L. Brown, “Deal Breakers” by Betheny Marshall, and “Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl” by NML. There is another book out there by Brynn Collins but I can’t remember the title. I recommend reading them all.
I also recommend that you focus on the parts the teach you how to reinforce your own mental health rather than focusing on the other person and what he may or may not be thinking.
Each book covers the same topic in a slightly different manner, as each author has a very unique style of writing. Each book has a different “cure” for you and your dealing with the pain and exhaustion of getting involved with one of these men.
In my life, I ended up being married to an EUM, and then I was in a relationship with an EUM. So, these men can commit to long term relationships and not have other women, but they can have other “mistresses”. One had hobby after hobby after hobby, and the other was so busy “pretending” to be busy, that there was little time for a real connection to me. I never had the drama of some of the situations described here, but that doesn’t mean that I didn’t end up with a lot of pain, either. What happened, in my marriage, is that we just ended up drifting apart; at a certain point, I disengaged. While I know that my husband had really cared for me, he just couldn’t connect with me in a way that I needed, or maybe, I couldn’t connect in a way that he needed. Or, maybe relationships just run their course.
So, I differ with Brad’s opinion, a bit, in that not all of these men are as disconnected and as tortured – there are “levels”, I think, of EU. That said, they are programmed much differently than those who want to really connect. Because, just look at the stats on infidelity and read the number of posts here on the same topic: We read, over and over, the MM who has been married for 30 plus years, but also had the same mistress for almost as many. No, that is not healthy, but they are relationships. Ugh. . .
Elle,
I think of being emotionally unavailable as a diagnosable, clinical condition that a psychotherapist would recognize and possibly treat. Here in the lay world there is no cure, because EU isn’t something that usually bothers the patient, so few ask for treatment or believe they should change.
Outside of a mental health treatment plan, men don’t change. Not when so much advertising and macho crap keeps reinforcing the stereotype.
Emotionally unavailable is not the guy that sort of likes you but doesn’t really want you that much. EU is the person that wants part of a relationship – closeness or sex or social image, say – but not the rest. Certainly not trusting someone to share responsibilities and to be dependable for their partners. The very thing that healthy relationships thrive on, the trust and respect for each other, the EU is uninterested in, if not terrified about.
For those of us trying to stumble through our lives, the rules and meanings get simplified – the guy and gals chasing bed partners aren’t interested in a real, mated, shared life. They engage their sexual libidos, maybe share a residence, but they won’t let their emotion, at least not affection, get in the way of their goal – bed partners. Emotionally unavailable. This is a handicap, usually an injury of the psyche, one that can often be traced back to a period of deprivation or abuse. EU is not something one is able to resolve for themselves – it is a coping mechanism that wards them from further hurt or injury, it is *not* something they consciously choose.
And the nature of EU is that they are reluctant to explore their condition, because it is usually tied up with pain and feelings of isolation and often they felt belittled, when the pattern was set. So they shy away from anything that comes close to the issues that have dogged their lives.
What we see of the EU is the choices they make. What is tough is to accept that they aren’t building a relationship because they have no healthy concept of what a relationship should be. Their problems prevent them from ever getting emotionally involved – committed – to a loving, shared life with another. What was the comment Steve Buscemi makes in “Con Air”, something about, “He has been hurt so much that now laughter really is pain, for him.” Their feelings and responses have been reprogrammed at a very basic level; they truly are different, in the context of relationships.
Finally, I ask this. If the guy were healthy, would he rather find a woman to have a meaningful relationship with – or keep hanging about someone he doesn’t really care for?
.-= Brad K.´s last blog ..br: The practice doll =-.
aphrogirl- Thank you for your answer”.Like you have to stop looking and wanting and just be open to all life has to offer.”
I think you are right,at least everytime I kept looking it didnt work out so maybe is time for me to stop looking and just be open to what life has to offer like you said.Everything you said realy touch me and was exactaly what I needed to hear right now,thank you very much.
Brad-What a nice description of the EUM.It was realy helpfull to me and I guess it will be too for all the others.
@Jetred and Meant,
I had all but forgotten about the “incredible shrinking manâ€, LOL. Both he and I are 5’10â€, but yes, the difference is that I can wear heels, plus there is this perception people have that a beanpole like me is Amazon-tall, whereas a guy his height and build is just average. I know he was always a bit self-conscious about that and I’d play it down by wearing flats when we were together. I’m going home for a 10-day vacation in two weeks and I’ve been dreading being in the same city with him again (a million people in it and we manage to run into each other at hardware stores anyway). We are in the same industry and have too many acquaintances and colleagues in common for comfort. Taking your advice now, Meant – the naughty stuff stays home but the 3-inch heels are getting packed. I’m picturing looking down at him from that height when he utters one of the clichés that we have all heard and quoted here from these guys, and suddenly those lines sound even more ridiculous.
I haven’t got “When Good People Have Affairs†by Mira Kirshenbaum yet (how does one walk into a bookstore and buy something like that??), but I did google her as you suggested and in the articles and interviews I read there was one constant theme – don’t ever tell. Prior to this “AC quagmire†mess as you very aptly called it, I like to think that I was a pretty honest person, and I had a strong sense of fairness. Now I’m sitting here in limbo because having abused the trust of the person I was supposed to love and protect, I don’t feel it’s fair that he should be saddled with a liar. The reason that I haven’t asked for a divorce is that I don’t know how to say it. He deserves better than what he got but he also deserves the stability he thinks we have. I would never come clean, as they say; I had been cheated on once by someone I was at the time engaged to and wish I had never found out. That was a terrible year. And now, no matter what I do, I will hurt someone just as I had been hurt. So I’m passing the days of my work contract out here, 2 thousand miles away from home, doing nothing about my marriage, hoping that time will do its thing and after a while it won’t matter so much to him that I’m gone.
I don’t like myself very much these days.
Thanks ever so much everyone who replied to my question, and also shared your own stories. It gave me good insight, and I have firmly decided to go ‘No Contact’ from now on. It may sound drastic but I feel I have little choice. It will get more difficult with time surely and, quite frankly, I can see little point in continuing. Hopefully it won’t be that difficult as it’s not been too long since we started seeing each other. He was very full on to begin with and as I understand it, that behaviour is fairly typical. Silly me I was flattered and funnily enough I didn’t think much of it, just thought it rather odd at times – it surprised me too at times, but I had no idea then it would harbour such dysfunction! (He really did seem genuinely in love and he was very caring).
I’ve reflected on his family today as well as he wanted me to meet them very quickly too, and because fo that, I thought he was sincere of course. They claim they’re ‘very close’ but I couldn’t see that they were at all, not in the way it really matters. I realised that am used to very different family dynamics. This must play a huge part in how they relate as adults.
Well ladies .. I feel like I’ve awoken from a *very* strange dream! This morning I felt completely lost and empty. The way he broke my heart is the cruellest thing I have so far experienced, so abrupt and heartless I almost can’t describe it on words … it’s like he just switched himself off emotionally, but he doesn’t want to end the relationship either! Which to me is the inevitable next step. But I suppose it’s onwards and upwards from now on! However, I really hope so. I can’t try to mend this on my own and especially when he’s hardly emotionally connected at all. It really feels like he just put on a good show and ran out of steam when he couldn’t muster up another (seemingly genuine) emotion.
I won’t go on too much, but shall look into the reading matter as well, thanks for that too. I don’t know much about this EU thing but you all seem fantastic – you can be proud of yourselves for the good work you put into your own lives and into this site 🙂
Lots of love xx
@Elle … yep. That sounds very familiar. You’ll be fine hon. Just don’t keep looking at him as the important part, the important part is you and your future.
The book by Brynn Collins is “Emotional Unavailability: Recognizing It, Understanding It, and Avoiding its Trap.” A friend recommended it to me. Another book by the same author is “How to Recognize Emotional Unavailability and Make Healthy Relationship Choices.” Final book recommendation, “The Emotionally Unavailable Man: A Blueprint for Healing” by Patti Henry.
I can relate to Angelina’s issue about being so busy (on intangible stuff-things that would not express an opposing view or spending huge amounts of time in cyberspace-where you can pretend to be anyone you wish, and no one is the wiser.) After reading many of the posts on this site, I am convinced that cyberspace and today’s technology are just the tools that EUMs need to never realize there is a problem, let alone face it. But what is do know, is that you can’t “fix” or “heal” other people (especially when they don’t think there is a problem.) You can only work to heal yourself after emotional damage has been done. It won’t be easy, but if you keep trying, you will succeed. I am still trying.
“The Emotionally Unavailable Man: A Blueprint for Healing” is a book that requires both partners in a committed relationship to travel the journey together.
It’s premise is that the man is actually able to realize that he is emotionally unavailable, and that the woman (his partner) is going to “be there” for him while he takes his admittedly necessary journey towards emotional availability.
While I think it is a good book for a woman and man who are committed to each other, I wouldn’t buy it if you are just looking for help in understanding EUM.
One more significant “thing” about the EUM personality: Cannot make a commitment to be with you, NOR can the person make a commitment to not be with you.
So, the only way an EU relationship ends is when the Emotionally Available person ends it and sticks to it.
@Angelina
But how long before it feels OK? This has been a hard weekend. I made myself have a busy Saturday where there were too many distractions to let my mind wander. Today though I went to finish a painting I had done for his daughter and I don’t know what to do with it promised it and sent pictures of it. It just needed a varnish. And I have these sweathshirts that at some point we had been shipping back and forth to each other as “care packages” because they would smell like whoever wore them last. They’re all his. All so silly in retrospect but so painful to look at still. I’m tired of crying.
OK i just have to vent before i gag on my own bile (eewww)…
The online ex (or is he?)….after the snail mail…we talked several more times. Every time i try to break it off completely, he won’t let me, kept saying “I love you” a gazillion times and off course I cave yet he’s still hot/cold i don’t know if it’s worth keep going.
How come i can’t seem to end a relationship I don’t think I wanna be in anymore?;( Now it’s as if, I’m miserable with or without him;(
I used to be so happy with him. But I don’t think I am anymore. Do I bail out now or try and stick it out? His brother just passed away yesterday…is it too cold to bail out now? We talked today and he was downright cranky. (He acted nonchalant and didn’t show any grief. I don’t think he knows how or doesn’t want me to know). What is the proper thing to do in this situation – stay away, give him time to grief, or keep letting him know you’ll be there for him? His behavoir is scaring me away little by little to the point where i just wanna flee.
Driving home from a friends tonight I actually was shocked to find myself unexpectantly shedding tears for the EUM, for the first time in weeks. Its been about five months of NC. I then angrily wondered how long I would feel sad about him, sad for him, sad for me and him. I also got angry, with him for being such an emo dunce and then back at me that I was still sad about him. And through all this anger and tears I also saw the silliness of the whole thing, which made me laugh a bit while I was crying. What a flippin mess.
I realized that i probably will always feel sad when I think of the boy clown, but also realize that the times I think about him are mercifully becoming less and less charged with emotion. And this is after only 5 months of NC.
@Brad, I don’t know what I feel anymore, I haven’t for a very long time now. These are times someone like me wishes she had faith to fall back on. But I don’t and what I’m left with is trying to understand what happened here. I am going home for a couple of weeks end of this month and I’m dreading it as much as I’m looking forward to it.
@aphrogirl,
“I then angrily wondered how long I would feel sad about him, sad for him, sad for me and him. I also got angry, with him for being such an emo dunce and then back at me that I was still sad about him.” So maybe I’m not the only one who doesn’t know whether she is coming or going. We can sit here and tick off all the things we know were wrong or unhealthy about these relationships, and as we compare our experiences and their uncanny similarities it is easier to just feel indignance for a little bit. But for all the hurt and confusion these are still the same people we fell in love with in the first place. How does one root out love? Do you ever get all of it out of you?
Elle,
Your description of EUM was really helpful, for me as I am still realing from the end of a 7 year relationship with my ex. On the surface he appeared to most a “catch”. Funny, nice, good looking, has established his career – while on the inside I can tell you the nice easy going, physcially affectionate person was emotionally vacant. As long as we didn’t discuss anything of substance, or I required him to be honest, respect my feelings, put our relationship on his list of priorities, or asked him to express his emotions then everything was fine. I learned through my own experiences not to ask for anything, my feelings weren’t important while growing up in an home where my sister, mother, and i endured physical, psychological, emotional, and sexual abuse. My ex eum seemed like a dream compared to the things i have had to live through – so I made noise, complained, argued, counselled till I was blue in the face. Just to get a few crumbs from my ex, in the end I couldn’t take it anymore I had no support not in any substantial way. I was suffering with my own issues stemming from my childhold which I had neglected to scared to face – and instead poured all and I mean all my emotional energy into our relationship. In the last year I felt empty so empty i couldn’t do it anymore, i realized i had no sense of who i was outside of the relationship. I made an effort to make friends with people, for the first time in my life trying to break down the wall i had built around myself outside of my personal relationship. My ex was not pleased, but never really expressed it, just passive aggressive behaviour. In the end I realized that I needed to figure out what was going on with me, since he didn’t feel comfortable talking about my issues and had become increasingly impatient with my absent labido as i battled the trauma of the sexual and physical abuse – waking up in cold sweats with nightmeres. He basically shut down, said nothing I explained to him I needed to step back try to deal with my problems figure out who i was outside of the relationship and was going to stay by myself for a bit but was not abandoning him. I called him constantly and tried to talk to him about our relationship and my needs … within three weeks he was sleeping with some 23 year chick he picked up at a club and is still with her to this day. I almost had a nervous breakdown and he continued to see her while we still lived together until the house was sold, and treating me like shit, first lying about the other woman and then openly flaunting his relationship in my face. I endured that for 5 months until we sold the home, and when we got an offer he attempted to derail it, saying we should hold out for a better one. In the meantime, i had stopped eating, sleeping, was drinking and couldn’t continue in my studies had to stop and all i could do was lie in my bed with constant anxiety attacks, dissociation and depersonalization. He barely took pity on me, left me over and over again in a puddle of tears, wailing, and distraught. Now 7 months later I am still suffering, some days i can’t get out of bed, can barely eat, barely sleep… i have to fight daily just to get through the day my ex has never called me other than tying up financial ends to really talk to me. I realize how much the pain is on some level is comfortable like NML says familar and I gravitate towards it, the fear of starting over is overwhelming. I am left trying to figure out who i am, what i like, the relationship and its aftermath nearly destroyed my mental, emotional, and physical health. I am trying to pick up the pieces and i realize how much like others have expressed i am afraid to be alone, alone without an EUM to bandage my poor self esteem.
Aega,
“Now I’m sitting here in limbo because having abused the trust of the person I was supposed to love and protect, I don’t feel it’s fair that he should be saddled with a liar.””
You are a liar, only if you continue to lie. You have the ability to choose to do differently with your life from now on, than you have to this point. You have to choose to change – just as an alcoholic or other substance abuse has to choose, for themselves, that they are too terrified of their current life to live that way one more moment.
If you were indeed to change, to look at yourself and determine that you will be honest with yourself, honest and honorable with others, that you will be diligent in your responsibilities, that you will be the woman that pledged her life and heart to her marriage – you can. You have a mistake in your past, true, that you must, with all you are able to do, keep secret from everyone in your life. Forever. Consider this secret your own burden, a responsibility, an act to protect your family.
Prostitutes and adult performers leave their trade; some few people survive prison and undertake a “normal” life. Others have come to terms with their past, you can too. Accept that the choices you made in the past led to your dishonor. Understand the difference between “the sin” and “the sinner”, understand the Bible’s admonition to “hate the sin and not the sinner”. Unless you pray and believe, you will have to grant, and accept, your own forgiveness. And you should be forgiven if you are a) heartily sorry; b) understand the choices and lies that you followed, that contributed to your dishonor; c) accept that nothing can justify what you did; and d) spend the rest of your life avoiding the mistakes of your former life.
You say you are letting your marriage sit, untouched. Usually long distances are a terrible strain on a marriage, especially after a month or more. It takes lots of active communication, contact, and effort to keep it alive. If you are feeling isolated and lonely, I imagine your husband is, too. Now would be a really good time to resume being the wife he needs, to the best of your ability. Just be careful that you don’t gush over with remorse – that would imply something needed forgiveness, and that is your responsibility, not his. Re-engage on the daily life, on your affection for him – maybe a trip home for closeness. Do stop holding him away. You don’t want him to think you are tired of the marriage and want out.
Blessed be.
@ aphrogirl,
Crying over something that is sad is so very, very . . . good. The sadness is to be regretted, but should diminish with time, as it probably already has. You might forgive yourself for being sad a little quicker, you are likely due for some mercy! You might pamper yourself, just a bit, by watching a mindless movie to indulge a bit more (OK – call it wallowing, whatever!). Maybe Six Day, Seven Nights, with Harrison Ford, or Sleepless in Seattle, or something else terminally lame but sweet. Maybe an herbal tea with honey, a cozy comforter or pillow. Something that won’t show tears to clearly.
Peace.
.-= Brad K.´s last blog ..Book: Judge Judy gets tough on romance =-.
@aphrogirl, Aega, and, well, everybody
I am sitting here in my hotel room balling my eyes out. It was so difficult to see my ex today that I couldn’t even look at him for the first part of the meeting today. He eventually said “hello” to me, and I answered briefly, then spoke as little as possible to him through the meeting and during the dinner/drinks afterwards. I made sure I was talking to other people the whole time, and kept a big (not fully authentic) smile on my face.
It took all my will power not to talk to him in the way I usually do at these conferences. If I saw him talking to a woman, I felt jealous for a bit, but was relieved he didn’t talk to anyone for long.
All I want right now is for him to come to my room and see me, but I didn’t tell him my room number like I usually do, so I know it’s not going to happen, and I know it would be breaking NC in a big way.
I am so pleased that I was able to resist him tonight (not that he put a *lot* of effort into talking to me – just got some reading materials for me that were helpful for a project I’m working on, and a few other minor gestures). I guess I’m glad that I didn’t “chase” him really. But I am also sooooo sad, and longing to be with him. Like I said, his voice, and the way he smells drive me crazy with desire. I can’t stop sobbing, and I am not looking forward to doing what I need to do for the conference tomorrow.
Sorry if I’m rambling and not making sense- I am posting here instead of what I would usually be doing – sleeping with *him*. Oh yes, and I have also had some alcohol this evening.
This feels horrible, but I know it would feel even worse if I were to sleep with him. It’s funny, I was having a conversation with another colleague (a man) who is divorced and recently in a new relationship, and he was telling me about women who have approached *him* in the last few years about having a no-strings sex relationship with him. He is surprised at the number of women who have suggested this. Did I miss something here, while women became as EU and compartmentalize relationships as much as how we typically thing of men doing?
I suppose I should get to bed – I have a *lot* to do tomorrow and it’s after 1am here. Thank you all for being there, and for all your suggestions earlier. Thinking of all of you was so helpful in getting through this very difficult first time seeing my ex since we broke up.
good night all,
Meant xo
@Meant, please don’t cry because you’re breaking my heart. Ya did good girl, real good. I know that feeling of bawling your heart out because you have this huge empty space inside into which all of you is collapsing. You’ve got through the first night, though, and you’ve got the finish line ahead of you. Hotels are depressing anyway (I hate traveling on business) but once you’re back home the fact that you’ve kept up NC through unbelievably tough circimstances will feel like a huge victory. I know it hurts right now, but if you were with him, you would be opening up the door for him to hurt you so much more in the coming days.
Lots of hugs.
To Angelina: This is something I really didn’t/don’t understand … how they evidently ‘go off’ you and then stubbornly just won’t do anything about it! When I realised things were slipping I thought, well, it’s a matter of days (or hours!) now before he’ll end it. But I realise this is the ‘normal’ (for want of a better word) way to do it, not the usual EU way (apparently). This is a mystery … as I still can’t figure out (perhaps there is no way to) why he would want me around as he seems to really *want* to be/live alone. He made some cutting remarks along these lines, when I visited once he said longed to have his house by himself again, etc. I was really hurt by this. He was generally a blunt person, but didn’t seem to have a clue just how impolite and inappropriate his remarks could be. However … he says he is still ‘in love’ but of course one knows when things radically change. This is when I feel I am being messed with, big style. I can easily imagine how one can start to mistrust one’s own judgement after a while … they really do not know what they want! He often told me how ‘confused’ he was. I’ve even read that before, amazing … they even say the same things!!
(By the way, I didn’t sleep with him because I kept feeling I’d rather wait. Maybe it was my intuition and I am so very glad I didn’t. I am mentioning this because it makes it even more difficult to imagine why he’d hold on as there’s plenty of that to be offered elsewhere).
To Cece: I am so glad that my post could help you! I am very sorry though to hear about your experiences. It seems situations like these can affect your emotional, as well as physical health – it’s only logical I suppose. I started having headaches when given all the mixed messages. But that seems nothing compared to what you’ve endured though. I really hope you can pull through somehow, also considering your childhood experiences. Seven years is a long time with someone, but cutting contact should help – if you haven’t done that already.
Sorry if my post wasn’t helpful enough, but I really wish you well xx
@Meant I am going to disagree with Aega. Cry. Cry like crazy. Cry in the shower where it doesn’t show, get it all out.
I know how you are feeling and I understand but you’re doing so very well. I’m so glad to hear you didn’t chase him … I just hope he doesn’t turn up the volume because you will feel like shit if you do anything with this man as you know. Then you have to start over, and that is much harder (though I think we all do it once at least).
We’re all there with you babe 🙂
@ Cece
I had an unpleasant experience the past few days. Someone I only regard as a friend decided that he was interested – and he’s SO flippy flappy already that there wasn’t even red flags, it was just repellant. It’s so strange, as has been said, you can see the signs in dayglo once you have been there. This guy tho has always been quiet and gentle, thoughtful … and suddenly I am in some emo drama fest where because I hold certain views and opinions (not about him, his life etc) that I have “betrayed his image of me”.
Nuff said. I’m not doing NC cos I don’t think I need to, he actually said TWICE on both days “This discussion ends now” and walked off.
Idiot.
And yes I think a lot of women are EU now under the impression that this gives them what they are looking for rather than perpetuating how crap our society is becoming.
Meant, keep wearing those heels !
Look, I did cry for the EUM but I am so very firm in my resolve that I will not speak with him at all unless it is with a professional. Someone in the middle who will call time out and watch out for me. I guess I can cry for the man that he may want to be, but cannot work to be. I saw potential in him, as does he, because he is a recovered alcoholic and giving up that implies a level of ability. He has been sober for a decade or two, but has never really done the work to figure why he got there in the first place – blames the bottle.
Meant, just remember that what you crave is a fix of a drug that is not good for you at all. Feels good for a bit maybe but then the unsatisfying nature of it all sets in. And if he is a charmer and a user just consider him as the pusher also – he does understand nor care much about your emo health, he wants his payoff. This is the point to see that women get more emotionally invested than EU men, and, unlike us, those men can turn off what little emotion they do feel.
Cece, your story is hard to hear. I have been in a various states of depression for a few years dealing with the EUM. These men are draining and often purposefully hurtful. But please be proud that you took the right action for your own health, and he did his best to hurt you in return, and prob make you feel crazy. You have survived a battle, you have been wounded but you are recovering.
I have learned to not expect a quick fix here, truly the one day at a time approach. I get out of bed everyday but I do have to use extra care to take care of my health. I try to meditate, eat right and I should start an exercise program. I force myself to go to work ( i am self employed and do have a choice many days) Just get a picture of your head of you in the future, as a wise comfortable woman and keep that picture in mind everyday. I am not a painter but I am working on a self portrait of me to remind me of who I want to be. Make sure you have a friend watching out for you in this state, this is a good place for some support, I hope we can be of some help.
Meant to be happy,
I (and probably a lot of us) was waiting to hear how your day went, and like everyone else has said so far YOU DID GREAT! I saw that someone else mentioned that he might turn up the volume today, and I was thinking the same thing. You might need to turn up your “stay away from me” volume as well.
I so remember having to be tough and fake the smile when he showed up somewhere after 2 months of no contact, and when he approached me that night, that was when I pulled the “so how’s your wife?” thing, and it really, really helped!
I went home and cried, too, but I was able to get back to no contact right away.
My best friend suggested putting post it notes everywhere in my house and my car that said D.I.A.A. which stood for D________ Is An Ass. I had to write it in code because I have kids, but it really worked, and it even made me laugh when I got up in the morning and there was a post it on my bathroom mirror reminding me of my mission to stay away.
You’ll be stronger after this!
hello all. This is my first post. I have been reading this site for over 3 months now and have finally managed to go NC with my Mr. EU. I am on day 6 today and its harder than I thought but I know I am doing the right thing. We were in a relationship for a year and a half and broke up in May with him flipflapping in and out of my life and breaking my heart over and over again. I know I am doing the right thing. I just wish I could get the illusion of him out of my head and see the real him for who he is. Thank you Natalie and all the active members on this site. You have given me the courage to go NC and opt out. I know it will get easier in time. I know that every lazy attempt of contact via text is just to check to see if I am still have feelings for him and give him the ego boost, not an attempt to put both feet in a relationship and fix all of our issues. He is too selfish for that and now has others girls to boost his ego. I will make it through today and the next and I will keep reading this site to keep me going strong.
@ Tara
Those other girls will probably end up here too. Well done for taking that step, doing so purposefully and with knowledge. That laziness and the popping in and out is so so not worth it, at least you already know it for what it is. I hope you have something nice planned.
Well, I have been fine about the ex but one, but then he mailed me today. The coldness … I already am well aware that in his mind me taking back my things, the business transaction tone etc … I’m surprised how much this hurts me how he is acting. I really did waste all those years and for nothing, if I had only known then what I do now. Proof positive that contact hurts cos I am much happier without him, I know this for sure, and I am guessing that having more of my things will further make me fed up as they remind me of that time but they are books, DVDs etc which I earned the money to buy and which I love so …
Urgh.
@Butterfly,
Thank you for your kind words. NC is so hard when I long for him to say the right things and still love him with all my heart. But truth is he doesnt value me or see the treasure I am, so why do I love this guy?! ugh he just continues to lead me on and blow hot by telling me he loves me and wants to hold me all night and cant imagine his life without me, just to turn around the next day with “whoa, I told you I don’t want a relationship right now. I’m selfish and I will always be selfish”. truth is I’m just tired, tired of him disappointing me.
I’m sorry that your hurting. When they act ice cold it is usually just a front for their huge egos, so you don’t see that you actually affect him. You don’t need someone in your life that hurts you, you and everyone else on this site deserves to be treasured and adored on a consistent basis. Congratulations in realizing that you are so much happier without him =) may that give you all the strength you need.
“Nobody is worth your tears, and the one who is won’t make you cry.”